1
00:01:14,784 --> 00:01:15,910
Hey, Bob. What's up?
2
00:01:15,994 --> 00:01:17,704
Hi. Listen.
3
00:01:17,787 --> 00:01:21,124
According to an unconfirmed report,
David Wallace is dead.
4
00:01:21,207 --> 00:01:22,417
What?
5
00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:24,252
No,no,no.
6
00:01:24,335 --> 00:01:27,338
No, it must be some sort of
college prank or something.
7
00:01:28,214 --> 00:01:29,382
Well... wens)
8
00:01:29,466 --> 00:01:33,011
I thought if anyone knew
whether it was true or not, it would be you.
9
00:01:36,848 --> 00:01:40,310
Now, a remembrance
of writer David Foster Wallace.
10
00:01:40,393 --> 00:01:44,689
He was found dead,
an apparent suicide, on Friday night.
11
00:01:44,773 --> 00:01:48,860
Wallace's novel, Infinite Jest,
brought him fame and a wide audience.
12
00:01:48,943 --> 00:01:51,613
Writer David Lipsky has this appreciation.
13
00:01:54,991 --> 00:01:59,204
"To read David Foster Wallace
was to feel your eyelids pulled open.
14
00:02:00,830 --> 00:02:04,459
"Some writers specialize
in the away-from-home experience.
15
00:02:04,542 --> 00:02:08,546
"They've safaried,
eaten across Italy, covered a war.
16
00:02:10,548 --> 00:02:14,969
"Wallace offered his alive self,
cutting through our sleepy aquarium,
17
00:02:15,053 --> 00:02:19,182
"our standard TV,
stores, political campaigns.
18
00:02:21,518 --> 00:02:24,938
"Writers who can do this,
like Salinger and Fitzgerald,
19
00:02:25,021 --> 00:02:27,482
"forge an unbreakable bond with readers.
20
00:02:28,525 --> 00:02:31,986
"You didn't slip into the books
looking for a story, information,
21
00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:34,948
"but for a particular experience.
22
00:02:35,031 --> 00:02:38,117
"The sensation,
for a certain number of pages,
23
00:02:38,201 --> 00:02:40,537
"of being David Foster Wallace."
24
00:02:46,835 --> 00:02:51,005
If anything, there was a conscious
attempt to not give overt direction.
25
00:02:51,673 --> 00:02:54,509
Although, of course,
you end up becoming yourself.
26
00:02:55,885 --> 00:02:57,679
And did they want you
to be a writer or no?
27
00:02:57,762 --> 00:03:00,056
No, no, I was gonna be...
The big thing when I was little,
28
00:03:00,139 --> 00:03:02,892
- I was a really serious jock, you know.
29
00:03:02,976 --> 00:03:04,561
Yeah, I played city-wide football as a kid.
30
00:03:04,644 --> 00:03:07,355
I was really big and really strong as a kid.
31
00:03:07,438 --> 00:03:11,025
And then, for four or five years,
I was gonna be a pro tennis player.
32
00:03:11,109 --> 00:03:12,902
- It was my great dream.
- Right.
33
00:03:12,986 --> 00:03:17,156
Reading was just this fun, weird thing
that I did on the side.
34
00:03:26,291 --> 00:03:27,667
"I didn't understand Soho,
35
00:03:27,750 --> 00:03:31,421
"the warehouses, the old buildings,
the cobbled streets.
36
00:03:32,171 --> 00:03:35,258
"It wasn't the Upper East Side,
and it was dirty.
37
00:03:37,635 --> 00:03:39,095
"I felt marooned.
38
00:03:39,178 --> 00:03:42,724
"Our mother had taken us off the track
of the nice life we'd been on.
39
00:03:42,807 --> 00:03:46,102
"She'd moored us in a creepy cul-de-sac
with her art world friends.
40
00:03:46,477 --> 00:03:49,022
"None of the kids in my school
had parents in the art world.
41
00:03:49,105 --> 00:03:52,525
"It made me feel different,
like there was something I had to cover up."
42
00:03:52,609 --> 00:03:54,235
David, hi. How'd your reading go?
43
00:03:54,319 --> 00:03:56,112
- It was great.
-I'm sorry I missed it.
44
00:03:56,195 --> 00:03:57,530
Don't worry about it.
45
00:03:58,281 --> 00:04:00,283
Hey, I heard you got that Rolling Stone job.
46
00:04:00,366 --> 00:04:02,243
We'll see. I'm sort of on probation.
47
00:04:02,327 --> 00:04:03,578
Good luck.
48
00:04:03,661 --> 00:04:06,331
Did you see Kim's review
in New York Magazine?
49
00:04:06,414 --> 00:04:08,458
The guy has been fucking canonized.
50
00:04:08,541 --> 00:04:09,542
Sorry, who's this?
51
00:04:09,626 --> 00:04:11,711
David Foster Wallace.
52
00:04:11,794 --> 00:04:13,379
"Next year's book awards
have been decided..."
53
00:04:13,463 --> 00:04:14,464
Can you believe this?
54
00:04:14,547 --> 00:04:16,883
"The plaques and citations
can now be put into escrow."
55
00:04:16,966 --> 00:04:18,009
It's unbelievable.
56
00:04:18,092 --> 00:04:22,889
"With Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace,
a plutonium-dense, satirical quiz-kid opus
57
00:04:22,972 --> 00:04:26,017
"that runs to almost 1,000..."
What? ,000 pages,
58
00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:29,562
"not including footnotes,
the competition has been obliterated.
59
00:04:29,646 --> 00:04:32,065
"It's as though Paul Bunyan
had joined the NFL,
60
00:04:32,148 --> 00:04:34,067
"or Wittgenstein had gone onto Jeopardy!
61
00:04:34,150 --> 00:04:37,320
"The novel is that colossally disruptive,
and that spectacularly good."
62
00:04:37,403 --> 00:04:39,739
That's the fucking opening paragraph.
63
00:04:39,822 --> 00:04:41,991
What if it actually is that good?
64
00:04:43,493 --> 00:04:45,161
You might just have to read it.
65
00:04:57,507 --> 00:04:58,716
Shit.
66
00:04:59,258 --> 00:05:00,635
- Hey.
-Thanks a lot.
67
00:05:08,267 --> 00:05:10,728
How many times have we interviewed
a writer in the last 10 years?
68
00:05:10,812 --> 00:05:12,105
Take a guess.
69
00:05:13,815 --> 00:05:15,066
Uh, how many?
70
00:05:15,149 --> 00:05:17,276
Zero. I checked.
71
00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,445
Maybe because Rolling Stone
doesn't interview writers.
72
00:05:20,571 --> 00:05:23,032
There hasn't been a writer like this, okay?
73
00:05:23,116 --> 00:05:26,661
Once in a generation.
Maybe Hemingway, Pynchon.
74
00:05:26,744 --> 00:05:27,829
Let me have this story.
75
00:05:27,912 --> 00:05:29,122
What story?
76
00:05:29,205 --> 00:05:32,291
He's finishing up a book tour
and, um, I wanna go with him.
77
00:05:32,375 --> 00:05:33,626
Well, that's not a story.
78
00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:37,463
He teaches at some small state university
somewhere in Illinois.
79
00:05:37,547 --> 00:05:39,132
Please, Bob, send me there, okay?
80
00:05:39,215 --> 00:05:43,219
This is the sort of stuff I should be doing,
not 500 words on boy bands.
81
00:05:44,971 --> 00:05:46,055
"Yak to Jam'?
82
00:05:59,902 --> 00:06:01,654
There better be a story there.
83
00:06:04,824 --> 00:06:06,075
There will be.
84
00:06:06,159 --> 00:06:07,368
There better.
85
00:07:39,502 --> 00:07:41,420
David, hi. It's, uh... It's David Lipsky.
86
00:07:41,504 --> 00:07:42,505
Where are you?
87
00:07:42,588 --> 00:07:45,216
You know, I think I may have
made a wrong turn somewhere.
88
00:07:45,299 --> 00:07:49,637
Uh, let's see, I'm on County Highway 29,
just across from the Circus Video.
89
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,514
How did you get this number?
90
00:07:52,223 --> 00:07:55,476
Uh, your publicist sent it in her e-mail,
just in case.
91
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,854
Hey, you'd do me a favor by losing it.
92
00:08:31,262 --> 00:08:33,890
Ow!
93
00:08:49,989 --> 00:08:51,324
Stay. Be calm.
94
00:08:51,407 --> 00:08:53,075
Be calm. Stay.
95
00:08:55,912 --> 00:08:57,705
- Hey, you made it.
-Hi. Yeah.
96
00:08:57,788 --> 00:08:59,248
- Yeah. Dave.
-Yeah.
97
00:08:59,332 --> 00:09:00,416
- Dave Wallace.
-David Lipsky.
98
00:09:00,499 --> 00:09:02,293
Hi. It's a pleasure, so...
99
00:09:02,376 --> 00:09:03,669
Likewise.
100
00:09:03,753 --> 00:09:06,923
Um... Yeah,
I'm sorry about the, uh, phone call. I just...
101
00:09:07,006 --> 00:09:08,549
- Yeah. No, you're fine.
-Okay.
102
00:09:08,633 --> 00:09:10,092
It was 95% joke.
103
00:09:10,176 --> 00:09:12,053
Right, right. Yeah.
104
00:09:12,136 --> 00:09:15,348
Sorry in advance about the dogs.
They're gonna be slobbering all over you.
105
00:09:15,431 --> 00:09:16,724
No, I don't mind at all. I love dogs.
106
00:09:16,807 --> 00:09:17,808
- Oh, yeah?
-Yeah.
107
00:09:17,892 --> 00:09:18,893
You haven't met these guys yet.
108
00:09:18,976 --> 00:09:20,186
I love 'em. Love 'em.
109
00:09:20,269 --> 00:09:23,689
Let's, uh... Jesus! Let's get inside. It's cold.
110
00:09:23,773 --> 00:09:25,691
Boys, get in there.
111
00:09:25,775 --> 00:09:26,984
Thanks a lot. Ooh.
112
00:09:27,068 --> 00:09:28,611
Come on. Come on, buddy.
113
00:09:28,694 --> 00:09:31,030
Wait. Ooh, I'm very glad
to meet you, too.
114
00:09:31,113 --> 00:09:32,406
Hmm, who is that?
115
00:09:32,490 --> 00:09:33,866
- Oh, that's Jeeves.
-Hi.
116
00:09:33,950 --> 00:09:36,118
Yeah, that's the Jeevmeister.
117
00:09:36,202 --> 00:09:38,246
I got him 'cause he was so ugly,
nobody else wanted him.
118
00:09:38,329 --> 00:09:40,206
Now, clearly, he's like a CoverGirl dog.
119
00:09:40,289 --> 00:09:42,291
And that's Drone, that's my provisional dog.
120
00:09:42,375 --> 00:09:44,210
Why? Why provisional?
121
00:09:44,293 --> 00:09:47,088
Uh, he just showed up one day
while Jeeves and I were out jogging.
122
00:09:47,171 --> 00:09:48,673
The rest is history.
123
00:09:49,966 --> 00:09:51,926
I feel like I should
offer you tea or something.
124
00:09:52,593 --> 00:09:53,636
- Yeah.
-Yeah?
125
00:09:53,719 --> 00:09:54,720
Yeah, thanks, that'd be great.
126
00:09:54,804 --> 00:09:55,972
- Okay.
-Yeah.
127
00:10:13,239 --> 00:10:14,740
It's a nice view.
128
00:10:15,533 --> 00:10:17,827
Thank you. I can't take credit for it.
129
00:10:18,953 --> 00:10:20,329
Huh.
130
00:10:22,707 --> 00:10:26,836
So, um, have you always been, uh, unlisted?
131
00:10:28,421 --> 00:10:31,424
I had to do that recently.
it was getting kind of crazy.
132
00:10:31,507 --> 00:10:33,926
Yeah, because of, uh...
Because of fans?
133
00:10:34,010 --> 00:10:36,429
I don't know if "fan"
is exactly the right word.
134
00:10:36,512 --> 00:10:37,638
I think what happened was,
135
00:10:37,722 --> 00:10:40,099
I had forgotten to tell my parents
not to give my number out.
136
00:10:40,182 --> 00:10:42,810
So, those people
would track my parents down.
137
00:10:43,102 --> 00:10:46,022
I have this terrible problem,
I really hate to hurt people's feelings, so...
138
00:10:46,105 --> 00:10:47,106
Mmm. Right.
139
00:10:47,189 --> 00:10:48,482
I did something kind of cowardly.
140
00:10:48,566 --> 00:10:51,777
No, I don't think
unlisting your number is cowardly.
141
00:10:51,861 --> 00:10:55,698
It kind of is. I mean, I changed my number
so these folks couldn't find me anymore.
142
00:10:55,781 --> 00:10:56,782
All right.
143
00:10:56,866 --> 00:10:58,993
There's this computer operator
from Vancouver,
144
00:10:59,076 --> 00:11:01,037
he was living in a basement or something.
145
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:02,538
I found him very moving.
146
00:11:02,955 --> 00:11:04,749
He was in terrible, terrible pain.
147
00:11:04,832 --> 00:11:05,833
What did he want from you?
148
00:11:06,375 --> 00:11:07,460
It's unclear.
149
00:11:07,543 --> 00:11:09,587
And when I would sort of, like, ask him,
150
00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:13,007
that's when he would get angry,
and it got scary.
151
00:11:13,090 --> 00:11:16,427
Right. What is this? Who is the artist?
152
00:11:17,678 --> 00:11:20,139
It's my friend's daughter,
calls me chicken-head.
153
00:11:20,222 --> 00:11:21,766
I call her chicken-head.
154
00:11:21,849 --> 00:11:23,642
It's her latest salvo in the war.
155
00:11:23,726 --> 00:11:25,144
Um...
156
00:11:25,227 --> 00:11:27,229
That's funny. Would you mind if I, uh...
157
00:11:28,272 --> 00:11:30,358
- No, do what you gotta do.
-Thank you.
158
00:11:37,615 --> 00:11:41,452
Listen, before we start putting stuff on tape,
I... I need to ask you something.
159
00:11:42,495 --> 00:11:46,123
I need to know that anything that I say
five minutes later not to put in,
160
00:11:46,207 --> 00:11:48,000
that you're not gonna put in.
161
00:11:49,794 --> 00:11:50,836
Absolutely.
162
00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,923
Just given my level of fatigue
and my fuck-up quotient lately,
163
00:11:54,006 --> 00:11:57,259
it's the only way I can see doing it
and not going crazy.
164
00:11:57,343 --> 00:11:59,345
Nope, I... I completely understand.
165
00:12:01,305 --> 00:12:02,932
- So, right back on, huh?
-Mmm.
166
00:12:05,267 --> 00:12:07,603
Uh... You agreed to the interview.
167
00:12:13,776 --> 00:12:16,153
Uh... So, this is your road, huh?
168
00:12:16,237 --> 00:12:17,863
- Yeah, this is my road.
- For sure.
169
00:12:17,947 --> 00:12:20,491
You just have to tell me where to turn
because I'm used to the grid system.
170
00:12:20,574 --> 00:12:22,076
- This is all new territory for me.
-Oh.
171
00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:23,202
Yeah, I know, fair enough.
172
00:12:23,285 --> 00:12:25,996
- You just go straight for about a mile.
-Okay.
173
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,706
- There'll be signs of the school on the right.
-Got it.
174
00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:30,251
And, uh, do you like...
Do you like teaching there?
175
00:12:30,334 --> 00:12:33,671
I do, yeah, very much,
which is what's so fucked.
176
00:12:33,754 --> 00:12:35,131
I feel so bad for these kids.
177
00:12:35,214 --> 00:12:36,549
Why? Why do you feel bad for them?
178
00:12:36,632 --> 00:12:39,009
They have the greatest
writing teacher in the world.
179
00:12:39,093 --> 00:12:40,511
If I was there, maybe.
180
00:12:40,594 --> 00:12:43,722
No, I mean, the whole fuss has taken me
out of school for the past two weeks,
181
00:12:43,806 --> 00:12:45,057
-and we gotta leave again tomorrow.
-Right. Right.
182
00:12:45,141 --> 00:12:47,226
We gotta be up at the crack at dawn
to go to the airport tomorrow.
183
00:12:47,309 --> 00:12:49,019
Shit. Do we really?
184
00:12:49,103 --> 00:12:51,147
- That's what you signed on for, man.
-All right. No problem.
185
00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:53,399
You're welcome to stick around
and write an article about my dogs.
186
00:12:53,482 --> 00:12:54,525
No, no, no. That's just fine.
187
00:12:54,608 --> 00:12:56,819
It might be more interesting, I promise you.
188
00:12:57,111 --> 00:12:59,905
Do yourself a favor,
don't expect any fireworks in there.
189
00:12:59,989 --> 00:13:01,657
I'm sure you're gonna be just fine.
190
00:13:01,740 --> 00:13:03,367
Campus romance story.
191
00:13:04,076 --> 00:13:05,077
Ah!
192
00:13:05,161 --> 00:13:06,745
I gotta tell you guys,
193
00:13:06,829 --> 00:13:09,957
the average citizen is not
gonna find it that interesting.
194
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,501
I mean, the great dread
of creative writing professors,
195
00:13:12,585 --> 00:13:14,920
"Their eyes met over the keg."
196
00:13:17,339 --> 00:13:19,592
I just want my narrator to be funny
and smart, you know.
197
00:13:19,675 --> 00:13:21,260
I know. I know, I get it.
198
00:13:21,343 --> 00:13:23,471
You want your narrator
to be funny and smart.
199
00:13:23,554 --> 00:13:24,972
Here's a tip.
200
00:13:25,055 --> 00:13:27,975
Have them say funny, smart things
some of the time.
201
00:13:28,058 --> 00:13:29,268
Thank you.
202
00:13:29,351 --> 00:13:31,145
- You did a good job.
-Thank you.
203
00:13:31,228 --> 00:13:32,938
All right, who's next? Melissa.
204
00:13:33,564 --> 00:13:35,941
I'm normally a much better teacher
than that, I swear.
205
00:13:36,025 --> 00:13:38,444
Well, I thought you were great,
and that they obviously love you.
206
00:13:38,527 --> 00:13:39,945
Oh, you think?
207
00:13:40,029 --> 00:13:42,198
Yeah, come on,
you know they do.
208
00:13:42,281 --> 00:13:43,449
You hungry?
209
00:13:47,077 --> 00:13:48,787
And what can I get you to drink?
210
00:13:48,954 --> 00:13:49,997
- Uh...
- Um...
211
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,333
I'll just have a giant Diet Rite, please.
212
00:13:52,416 --> 00:13:54,752
Uh, okay, you know what, I'll just...
I'll have the same thing.
213
00:13:54,835 --> 00:13:55,836
Be right back with your pop.
214
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,213
- Thanks.
-Thanks, man.
215
00:13:59,673 --> 00:14:01,217
Oh. Uh...
216
00:14:01,425 --> 00:14:02,593
Can I, um...
217
00:14:03,969 --> 00:14:05,554
Do you mind if l...
218
00:14:05,888 --> 00:14:07,473
One second. Okay.
219
00:14:08,974 --> 00:14:11,936
Uh...
220
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:15,648
You don't drink.
221
00:14:19,568 --> 00:14:21,028
Is that a question to me?
222
00:14:21,195 --> 00:14:23,739
No, no, it's an observation.
223
00:14:23,822 --> 00:14:25,574
Ah, l see. No, I know.
224
00:14:25,658 --> 00:14:27,368
Uh, no, I do not drink.
225
00:14:27,451 --> 00:14:29,370
You can order whatever you want, though.
Go right ahead.
226
00:14:29,453 --> 00:14:30,496
Oh, no, no, no. That's fine.
227
00:14:30,579 --> 00:14:33,624
No, I mean, I have a lot of friends
who have been through the program, so...
228
00:14:33,707 --> 00:14:36,126
They always tell me
that they're, uh... They're uncomfortable
229
00:14:36,585 --> 00:14:38,462
with people drinking right in front of them.
230
00:14:38,546 --> 00:14:40,506
- So, I just...
-Oh.
231
00:14:41,757 --> 00:14:43,551
I mean, out of respect, I'm...
232
00:14:44,093 --> 00:14:45,302
I got what you got.
233
00:14:46,428 --> 00:14:49,723
I'm not any sort of authority
on any sort of program.
234
00:14:50,766 --> 00:14:53,644
From my very limited
outside understanding,
235
00:14:53,727 --> 00:14:55,062
for people who've been in it a while,
236
00:14:55,145 --> 00:14:57,815
you could snort cocaine off the back
of your hand, they'd be all right, so...
237
00:14:57,898 --> 00:15:00,442
Right, right. Right.
238
00:15:01,819 --> 00:15:03,320
- You know what I would love to do, man?
-What's that?
239
00:15:03,404 --> 00:15:06,574
I would love to do a profile on one of
you guys who's doing a profile on me.
240
00:15:06,657 --> 00:15:09,243
- Mmm, that is interesting.
-Is that too po-mo and cute? I don't know.
241
00:15:09,326 --> 00:15:10,619
Maybe for Rolling Stone, but...
242
00:15:10,703 --> 00:15:12,871
-it'll be interesting though. Oh.
-You think?
243
00:15:14,373 --> 00:15:16,458
- I'm sorry, man.
-What's wrong?
244
00:15:16,542 --> 00:15:17,960
It's just, you're gonna go back to New York
245
00:15:18,043 --> 00:15:22,047
and sit at your desk
and shape this thing however you want.
246
00:15:22,131 --> 00:15:24,925
That... I mean, to me,
it's just extremely disturbing.
247
00:15:25,009 --> 00:15:26,552
Why is it disturbing?
248
00:15:26,635 --> 00:15:29,805
'Cause I think I would like to shape
the impression of me that's coming across.
249
00:15:29,888 --> 00:15:31,473
- I see. I understand.
-Yeah.
250
00:15:31,557 --> 00:15:32,933
I don't even know if I like you yet.
251
00:15:33,017 --> 00:15:35,477
I'm so nervous about whether you like me.
252
00:15:35,561 --> 00:15:36,562
Here you go.
253
00:15:36,645 --> 00:15:38,772
Your food will be out soon.
Can I get you anything else?
254
00:15:38,856 --> 00:15:41,066
- No, no, no, we're fine. Thank you.
- Thanks.
255
00:15:41,317 --> 00:15:42,610
Um...
256
00:15:43,068 --> 00:15:45,571
- What's this story about in your mind?
-I think...
257
00:15:45,654 --> 00:15:46,989
What does... What does Jann want?
258
00:15:47,114 --> 00:15:50,326
Uh, just what it's like to be
the most talked-about writer in the country,
259
00:15:50,409 --> 00:15:52,411
or that... That sort of thing.
260
00:15:52,494 --> 00:15:55,205
- Right.
-Which makes it sound... That's not...
261
00:15:55,289 --> 00:15:57,249
How do you learn to do this stuff?
262
00:15:57,333 --> 00:15:59,835
- Do what?
-The interviewing.
263
00:15:59,918 --> 00:16:02,087
Does one go to interviewing school?
264
00:16:02,171 --> 00:16:04,256
Yes, I went to
eight years of interviewing school.
265
00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:06,467
- So, you got a master's?
-I did. Um...
266
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:08,844
No, no, I'm... Uh...
267
00:16:09,511 --> 00:16:10,512
I'm a writer.
268
00:16:11,055 --> 00:16:12,640
- Ah, okay. Great.
-Yeah.
269
00:16:12,723 --> 00:16:14,975
No, I mean, I write fiction as well. I...
270
00:16:16,018 --> 00:16:17,978
I just had a novel published, actually.
271
00:16:18,062 --> 00:16:19,229
- Great.
-Mmm.
272
00:16:20,397 --> 00:16:21,774
What's... What's that called?
273
00:16:21,857 --> 00:16:22,941
The Art Fair.
274
00:16:23,025 --> 00:16:24,860
The Art Fair? Great.
275
00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:30,699
And I had a collection published
a few years ago, so...
276
00:16:31,241 --> 00:16:32,785
You're, like, a nervous guy, huh?
277
00:16:32,868 --> 00:16:34,953
No, no, no.
No, I'm okay. How are you?
278
00:16:35,037 --> 00:16:36,038
Ah, 'cause I'm terrified.
279
00:16:36,121 --> 00:16:37,539
- Are you?
-Yes, you're not alone in this.
280
00:16:37,623 --> 00:16:39,375
- Okay.
-We'll do this together.
281
00:16:39,458 --> 00:16:41,877
- No, no, no. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.
-Yeah.
282
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,672
The thing about the tours, like, yes,
283
00:16:44,755 --> 00:16:47,091
I would like to
get laid off of it a couple times.
284
00:16:47,174 --> 00:16:48,217
- Yeah?
-People come up,
285
00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:52,054
they kind of slither up,
and it seems like, I don't know...
286
00:16:52,137 --> 00:16:54,306
What I want is not to have to take any action.
287
00:16:54,390 --> 00:16:55,391
What kind of action?
288
00:16:55,474 --> 00:16:59,061
I don't wanna have to say, like,
"Do you want to come back to the hotel?"
289
00:16:59,144 --> 00:17:02,022
I want them to say,
"I am coming back to your hotel."
290
00:17:02,106 --> 00:17:03,315
You know, "Where is your hotel?"
291
00:17:03,399 --> 00:17:05,567
Mmm, that would be easier for you,
wouldn't it? Yeah.
292
00:17:05,651 --> 00:17:08,487
I can't stand to look like
I'm actively trading off this sexually,
293
00:17:08,570 --> 00:17:10,739
which, of course, I'd be happy to do,
294
00:17:10,823 --> 00:17:13,158
but I think, in retrospect,
I'm probably very lucky that I didn't.
295
00:17:13,242 --> 00:17:14,785
Mmm, lucky, why?
296
00:17:14,868 --> 00:17:17,329
It just would've made me
feel lonely, you know.
297
00:17:17,413 --> 00:17:18,956
Lonely? How so?
298
00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:20,999
Well, it wouldn't have
had anything to do with me.
299
00:17:21,083 --> 00:17:23,669
I think it would've been just...
300
00:17:23,752 --> 00:17:24,878
Your fame?
301
00:17:24,962 --> 00:17:26,338
Yeah, whatever. Yes.
302
00:17:26,422 --> 00:17:28,006
- Your fame. You can say it.
-Fine, fine.
303
00:17:28,090 --> 00:17:30,175
- What? You're famous. Hmm.
-Okay. Fine, whatever.
304
00:17:30,259 --> 00:17:31,844
You are. No, except though,
305
00:17:31,927 --> 00:17:34,513
if, uh, they're responding to your work
and your work is really personal,
306
00:17:34,596 --> 00:17:37,891
then reading you is another way
of meeting you, isn't that right?
307
00:17:38,726 --> 00:17:40,269
- That's so good.
-Thank you.
308
00:17:40,352 --> 00:17:42,521
This piece will be excellent, I think,
if it's mostly you.
309
00:17:42,604 --> 00:17:43,856
- Just talk all you want...
-Come on.
310
00:17:43,939 --> 00:17:46,316
Save me
a whole lot of trouble.
311
00:17:55,451 --> 00:17:57,536
So, this is what a real car feels like.
312
00:17:57,619 --> 00:18:01,540
I mean, the one I got, it's like riding around
on a power lawn mower, you know.
313
00:18:02,666 --> 00:18:05,335
Do you think being handsome
has anything to do with your success?
314
00:18:06,754 --> 00:18:07,880
- What?
-No, no, you're photogenic.
315
00:18:07,963 --> 00:18:09,590
I mean, you look good
in your author's photo.
316
00:18:09,673 --> 00:18:10,924
Come on. Ugh.
317
00:18:11,633 --> 00:18:15,053
Look, you have to come put me down
if I even start thinking that way.
318
00:18:15,137 --> 00:18:17,389
Thinking what way?
What, about how books are sold?
319
00:18:17,473 --> 00:18:21,226
Like, "Do you wanna do
a Rolling Stone interview?
320
00:18:21,310 --> 00:18:23,896
"Do you wanna do X? Do you wanna do Y?"
321
00:18:23,979 --> 00:18:28,108
It really worries me that what I'm doing
right now is like being a whore.
322
00:18:28,192 --> 00:18:30,277
A whore? Hey, why?
323
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,656
Cashing in somehow, or like,
getting some little celebrity for myself
324
00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:37,242
that will, from some bizarre
set of misunderstandings,
325
00:18:37,326 --> 00:18:38,744
sell more copies of the book.
326
00:18:38,827 --> 00:18:40,120
Mmm, okay.
327
00:18:40,204 --> 00:18:42,122
You can quote that if you want.
328
00:18:42,206 --> 00:18:44,583
Preferably in a context
where I don't sound like a total dweeb.
329
00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:46,335
Don't worry about it. Yeah.
330
00:18:47,211 --> 00:18:50,714
By the way, are they gonna send
Annie Leibovitz to take pictures?
331
00:18:50,798 --> 00:18:52,174
Uh, I'm not sure. Possibly.
332
00:18:52,257 --> 00:18:54,176
We'll see how the story turns out.
333
00:18:56,178 --> 00:18:58,305
I know. You're a really good-looking guy.
334
00:18:58,388 --> 00:19:00,933
We should have 'em photograph you,
say you're me,
335
00:19:01,016 --> 00:19:03,018
maybe I'll finally end up getting laid.
336
00:19:11,026 --> 00:19:12,611
Are you gonna drink all that?
337
00:19:12,694 --> 00:19:14,112
- I don't wanna have to come back.
-Yeah.
338
00:19:14,196 --> 00:19:15,155
I wish they had a case.
339
00:19:15,239 --> 00:19:17,825
That's actually
a really good idea. Um...
340
00:19:20,744 --> 00:19:21,787
Uh...
341
00:19:21,870 --> 00:19:23,664
Get the marshmallow one, too, please.
342
00:19:23,747 --> 00:19:25,499
All right.
343
00:19:25,582 --> 00:19:26,625
- One?
-Two.
344
00:19:26,708 --> 00:19:28,544
Two, of course. Why would I get one?
345
00:19:28,627 --> 00:19:29,837
One second. Okay.
346
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,463
Okay, all right, I think that's enough.
Come on.
347
00:19:31,547 --> 00:19:32,965
- Okay. Hey, Kim.
-Hi.
348
00:19:33,048 --> 00:19:34,424
Uh, we'll take all of these.
349
00:19:35,175 --> 00:19:36,635
Please, let me.
350
00:19:36,718 --> 00:19:38,178
Oh, no, you don't have to pay for my shit.
351
00:19:38,262 --> 00:19:41,390
No, no. It's not coming out of my pocket,
I have an expense account.
352
00:19:42,850 --> 00:19:44,476
If you insist, yeah.
353
00:19:51,692 --> 00:19:52,818
Mmm.
354
00:19:52,901 --> 00:19:54,778
- If we ate like this all the time...
-Yeah.
355
00:19:54,862 --> 00:19:56,321
What would be wrong with that?
356
00:19:56,405 --> 00:19:59,449
What would be wrong? Like, besides
your teeth falling out and getting really fat?
357
00:19:59,533 --> 00:20:00,993
It's got none of the nourishment
of real food...
358
00:20:01,076 --> 00:20:02,494
- No.
-...but it is real pleasurable,
359
00:20:02,578 --> 00:20:04,663
masticating and swallowing this stuff.
360
00:20:04,746 --> 00:20:06,999
Yes, it is. It's like
seductive commercial entertainment.
361
00:20:07,082 --> 00:20:10,002
Mmm. But what saves us is that
most entertainment is not very good.
362
00:20:10,085 --> 00:20:13,380
Yeah, but what about good seductive
commercial entertainment, like, uh, Die Hard?
363
00:20:13,463 --> 00:20:14,631
- That first Die Hard?
- The first Die Hard.
364
00:20:14,715 --> 00:20:15,757
- Great film.
-No, it's a brilliant film.
365
00:20:15,841 --> 00:20:16,884
- The best.
-Absolutely.
366
00:20:16,967 --> 00:20:18,093
So good.
367
00:20:18,927 --> 00:20:21,305
- I think if the book is about anything...
-Yeah.
368
00:20:21,388 --> 00:20:24,391
-...it's about the question of why.
-Right.
369
00:20:24,474 --> 00:20:26,560
Why am I watching all this shit?
370
00:20:26,643 --> 00:20:28,937
- Right. Right, yeah.
-it's not about the shit.
371
00:20:29,021 --> 00:20:30,188
- It's about me.
-Okay.
372
00:20:30,272 --> 00:20:32,149
So, why am I doing it?
373
00:20:32,232 --> 00:20:34,818
And what's so American
about what I'm doing?
374
00:20:36,486 --> 00:20:38,530
You know, the minute
I start talking about this stuff,
375
00:20:38,614 --> 00:20:42,868
it sounds, number one, very vague,
and number two, really reductive.
376
00:20:42,951 --> 00:20:45,203
No, no, no. I don't think
you're being vague or reductive at all.
377
00:20:45,287 --> 00:20:51,209
Okay, because I don't have a diagnosis
or a system of prescription as to why we...
378
00:20:51,293 --> 00:20:54,046
When I say "we," I mean
people just like you and me.
379
00:20:54,129 --> 00:20:57,633
Mostly white, upper-middle class,
obscenely well-educated,
380
00:20:57,716 --> 00:21:00,594
doing really interesting jobs,
sitting in really expensive chairs...
381
00:21:00,677 --> 00:21:01,678
Yeah.
382
00:21:01,762 --> 00:21:06,600
...watching the best, most sophisticated
electronic equipment money can buy.
383
00:21:06,683 --> 00:21:10,187
Why do we feel so empty and unhappy?
384
00:21:10,270 --> 00:21:13,732
Right. No. It's kind of like Hamlet,
except with channel surfing.
385
00:21:13,815 --> 00:21:16,818
I'm not saying that watching TV is bad
or a waste of your time
386
00:21:16,902 --> 00:21:21,031
any more than masturbation is bad
or a waste of your time.
387
00:21:21,114 --> 00:21:22,824
It's a pleasurable way
to spend a few minutes,
388
00:21:22,908 --> 00:21:25,077
-but if you're doing it 20 times a day...
-Right.
389
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,580
If your primary sexual relationship is
with your own hands, something is wrong.
390
00:21:28,664 --> 00:21:31,041
Yeah, except, at least with masturbation,
391
00:21:31,124 --> 00:21:32,751
some action is being
performed though, right?
392
00:21:32,834 --> 00:21:34,503
Isn't that... That's better.
393
00:21:35,629 --> 00:21:38,590
Okay, you can make me look like
a real dick if you print this.
394
00:21:38,674 --> 00:21:41,760
No, I'm not going to,
but if you can, speak into the mic.
395
00:21:42,928 --> 00:21:46,098
Yes, you're performing muscular movements
with your hand as you're jerking off,
396
00:21:46,181 --> 00:21:50,811
but what you're really doing, I think,
is you're running a movie in your head.
397
00:21:50,894 --> 00:21:54,231
You're having a fantasy relationship
with somebody who is not real,
398
00:21:54,314 --> 00:21:56,692
strictly to stimulate
a neurological response.
399
00:21:56,775 --> 00:22:00,112
So look, as the Internet grows
in the next 10, 15 years
400
00:22:00,195 --> 00:22:02,781
and virtual reality pornography
becomes a reality...
401
00:22:02,864 --> 00:22:03,907
Hmm.
402
00:22:03,991 --> 00:22:07,995
...we're gonna have to develop
some real machinery inside our guts
403
00:22:08,078 --> 00:22:10,205
to turn off pure, unalloyed pleasure.
404
00:22:10,288 --> 00:22:13,166
Or, I don't know about you,
I'm gonna have to leave the planet.
405
00:22:13,875 --> 00:22:14,960
Why?
406
00:22:15,043 --> 00:22:17,504
'Cause the technology is just
gonna get better and better,
407
00:22:17,587 --> 00:22:21,383
and it's gonna get easier and easier,
and more and more convenient,
408
00:22:21,466 --> 00:22:24,219
and more and more pleasurable to sit alone.
409
00:22:25,053 --> 00:22:26,596
With images on a screen
410
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,391
given to us by people who do not love us,
but want our money.
411
00:22:29,474 --> 00:22:32,185
And that's fine in low doses.
412
00:22:32,811 --> 00:22:36,064
But if it's the basic main staple of your diet,
you're gonna die.
413
00:22:37,357 --> 00:22:38,775
Well, come on.
414
00:22:39,401 --> 00:22:43,780
In a very meaningful way,
you're going to die.
415
00:22:47,743 --> 00:22:49,745
Hey, can I try that, actually?
416
00:22:51,121 --> 00:22:53,415
Yeah, it takes some getting used to.
Go ahead.
417
00:22:54,791 --> 00:22:56,001
Thanks.
418
00:22:56,084 --> 00:22:58,170
- It goes right there.
- Yeah, I know.
419
00:22:58,420 --> 00:22:59,588
Mmm.
420
00:23:01,048 --> 00:23:02,340
Hmm.
421
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:04,009
That's, um...
422
00:23:06,386 --> 00:23:07,846
Mmm. Actually, can I use your bathroom
for a second?
423
00:23:07,929 --> 00:23:09,848
- I believe it's unoccupied.
-Right.
424
00:23:18,315 --> 00:23:19,566
Hmm.
425
00:24:00,232 --> 00:24:01,858
-Hey.
-Hey.
426
00:24:03,693 --> 00:24:05,987
So, uh, do you not have a television?
427
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:07,656
I do not have a TV, no.
428
00:24:07,739 --> 00:24:08,949
How come?
429
00:24:09,032 --> 00:24:11,618
Because if I had a TV,
I would watch it all the time.
430
00:24:11,701 --> 00:24:12,702
Ah.
431
00:24:12,786 --> 00:24:15,580
I don't even know if I'd watch it all the time,
but it would be on all the time.
432
00:24:15,664 --> 00:24:17,332
- Right.
-Like my version of a fireplace.
433
00:24:17,415 --> 00:24:19,835
Some sort of source of
warmth and light in the corner
434
00:24:19,918 --> 00:24:21,503
I'd occasionally get sucked into.
435
00:24:21,586 --> 00:24:23,922
Right. What, did you watch
a lot of TV when you were a kid?
436
00:24:24,756 --> 00:24:26,091
- Yeah, a lot.
-Yeah.
437
00:24:26,174 --> 00:24:27,217
You'?
438
00:24:27,634 --> 00:24:28,927
I, uh... Me?
439
00:24:29,052 --> 00:24:31,721
Um, yeah, no, I did. I did. Uh...
440
00:24:32,597 --> 00:24:37,435
I tell you, but I moved in with a woman,
and she, uh, grew up without a television.
441
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:40,438
So, I tell you, living with her
for the first month was like torture.
442
00:24:40,522 --> 00:24:43,567
But then I realized it was
probably the best thing for me.
443
00:24:43,650 --> 00:24:44,985
Did you guys stay together?
444
00:24:45,068 --> 00:24:46,319
It's complicated.
445
00:24:46,945 --> 00:24:48,697
- Why?
-Hmm. Uh...
446
00:24:48,864 --> 00:24:51,950
Well, I was seeing this woman,
and she moved to LA.
447
00:24:52,033 --> 00:24:54,077
So, we... We theoretically broke up.
448
00:24:55,912 --> 00:24:58,123
Then I started seeing this other woman.
449
00:24:58,206 --> 00:24:59,666
But then, I started
seeing the first woman again.
450
00:24:59,749 --> 00:25:01,960
We tried the bicoastal thing, and the, uh...
451
00:25:02,043 --> 00:25:04,713
Let's just say the second woman
didn't take to that very well.
452
00:25:04,796 --> 00:25:07,007
It's so much easier having dogs.
453
00:25:07,090 --> 00:25:08,091
I'm sure it is.
454
00:25:08,175 --> 00:25:09,593
I mean, yes, you don't get laid,
455
00:25:09,676 --> 00:25:13,471
but you don't have that feeling,
like you're hurting their feelings all the time.
456
00:25:13,555 --> 00:25:14,598
Right, right, right.
457
00:25:14,681 --> 00:25:19,394
I would like to emphasize,
strictly platonic relationship with the dogs.
458
00:25:19,477 --> 00:25:22,314
I'll make sure to highlight that
in the article, sure.
459
00:25:22,898 --> 00:25:25,400
Uh, so, you're not dating anybody then?
460
00:25:26,943 --> 00:25:28,445
Yeah. Seriously dating, no.
461
00:25:28,528 --> 00:25:30,947
I'm out of practice,
I wouldn't even know what to say.
462
00:25:31,698 --> 00:25:33,158
Wouldn't, um...
463
00:25:33,241 --> 00:25:34,784
Do you wanna have kids?
464
00:25:35,535 --> 00:25:37,704
I mean, I think someday I would, yeah. You?
465
00:25:37,787 --> 00:25:39,456
Yeah. I...
466
00:25:39,539 --> 00:25:41,541
Yeah, I think eventually, yeah.
467
00:25:41,625 --> 00:25:45,629
I think that writing books is
a little bit like raising children, you know.
468
00:25:45,712 --> 00:25:47,005
You have to be careful, though.
469
00:25:47,088 --> 00:25:49,925
It's okay to take pride in the work,
470
00:25:50,008 --> 00:25:53,887
but I think it's bad to want the glory
to reflect back on you.
471
00:25:53,970 --> 00:25:56,973
I mean, it sounds like
you're worried about having children.
472
00:25:59,267 --> 00:26:02,938
I don't know that I wanna say
anything more about that, if that's okay.
473
00:26:03,021 --> 00:26:04,522
- That's fine.
-You know, it's fine for us
474
00:26:04,606 --> 00:26:06,524
to joke about
getting laid on tour and stuff,
475
00:26:06,608 --> 00:26:09,402
but that's... That's about it.
476
00:26:10,487 --> 00:26:11,947
No, I just thought
477
00:26:12,030 --> 00:26:15,116
it'd be nice to have someone
to be sharing all this wonderful stuff with.
478
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,785
- That's it.
-Yeah.
479
00:26:17,994 --> 00:26:20,956
I'd really wished that
I was married the past couple weeks.
480
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:22,290
You have?
481
00:26:23,625 --> 00:26:27,045
Yeah, nobody else really gets it,
you know?
482
00:26:27,128 --> 00:26:29,673
Your friends who aren't
in the writing biz are just...
483
00:26:29,756 --> 00:26:32,008
They're awed by your picture in Time.
484
00:26:33,093 --> 00:26:36,972
Your agent and editor are good people,
but they have their own agendas.
485
00:26:37,722 --> 00:26:39,015
It's fun talking to you about it,
486
00:26:39,099 --> 00:26:42,185
-but, yeah, you've got your own agenda, too.
-That's true.
487
00:26:42,269 --> 00:26:44,354
Certainly a set of interests
that diverge from mine.
488
00:26:44,437 --> 00:26:45,522
That's true.
489
00:26:46,147 --> 00:26:49,192
So, yeah, it would be kind of nice
to have somebody
490
00:26:49,276 --> 00:26:53,029
that you just shared a life with
and allowed yourself to be happy...
491
00:26:53,488 --> 00:26:54,990
- Yeah.
-...and confused with.
492
00:26:55,073 --> 00:26:58,159
Right, somebody to call
when you get back to the hotel.
493
00:27:00,662 --> 00:27:03,957
So, I got a question.
Why aren't you married at 30?
494
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:08,086
Why aren't you married at 34?
495
00:27:08,169 --> 00:27:09,671
- You first.
-Okay.
496
00:27:09,879 --> 00:27:10,964
Uh...
497
00:27:12,215 --> 00:27:15,510
I don't know, I mean, I just think
it's kind of hard to cast that role, you know,
498
00:27:15,593 --> 00:27:19,681
to fill it when you know
it's gonna be for, like, 30 to 40 years.
499
00:27:21,349 --> 00:27:23,977
You know, to find someone who,
whatever mental landscape you're in,
500
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:25,437
that they're gonna be in it, too,
501
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,357
and you have to find someone
who'll fit any landscape you can imagine.
502
00:27:29,441 --> 00:27:30,650
I don't know.
503
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:35,238
Yeah, I can't put it as well as you can,
you know, about these mental landscapes.
504
00:27:35,905 --> 00:27:38,992
I just... I know that I am hard to be around.
505
00:27:39,075 --> 00:27:40,869
- No, I don't think so.
-I am. Yeah.
506
00:27:40,952 --> 00:27:42,954
No. Why do you say that?
507
00:27:45,623 --> 00:27:49,419
When I wanna be alone, like, to write,
I really do wanna be alone.
508
00:27:49,502 --> 00:27:50,545
And I think...
509
00:27:50,879 --> 00:27:53,006
I think if you dedicate yourself,
like, to anything,
510
00:27:53,089 --> 00:27:56,426
one facet of that is that it makes you
very, very self-conscious.
511
00:27:56,509 --> 00:27:57,802
Right.
512
00:27:57,886 --> 00:27:59,346
And you end up using people.
513
00:27:59,429 --> 00:28:01,931
Wanting them around
when you want them around,
514
00:28:02,015 --> 00:28:03,099
and then sending them away.
515
00:28:03,183 --> 00:28:05,185
Well, yeah, but that comes with the territory.
516
00:28:05,268 --> 00:28:08,355
I mean, if you're gonna be a writer,
that kind of self-consciousness...
517
00:28:08,438 --> 00:28:09,898
- There's good self-consciousness.
-Right.
518
00:28:09,981 --> 00:28:13,401
Then there's also, like, a toxic, paralyzing,
519
00:28:13,485 --> 00:28:15,695
rape-by-psychic-Bedouins
kind of self-consciousness.
520
00:28:15,779 --> 00:28:17,072
Right, right.
521
00:28:17,405 --> 00:28:18,823
- That is scary, yeah.
-Yeah.
522
00:28:18,907 --> 00:28:20,909
- That sounds worse. Can you do me a favor?
-Yes.
523
00:28:20,992 --> 00:28:22,619
Could you tell me
about that poster over there?
524
00:28:25,246 --> 00:28:26,664
- Alanis?
-Yeah.
525
00:28:28,166 --> 00:28:32,003
I don't know, I guess I am susceptible
like everybody else. Why?
526
00:28:32,087 --> 00:28:33,630
- I mean, she's pretty, all right...
-She is pretty.
527
00:28:33,713 --> 00:28:34,839
...but it is the only thing in there.
528
00:28:34,923 --> 00:28:38,218
She's pretty in a very sloppy,
very human way.
529
00:28:38,301 --> 00:28:42,013
You know, she's got this, like,
squeaky, orgasmic quality to her voice.
530
00:28:42,097 --> 00:28:44,057
Right, right. Yeah.
531
00:28:44,849 --> 00:28:46,059
- Here's what it is.
-What?
532
00:28:46,142 --> 00:28:49,521
A lot of women in magazines
are pretty in a way that is not erotic,
533
00:28:49,604 --> 00:28:51,815
because they don't look like
anybody that you know.
534
00:28:51,898 --> 00:28:53,650
- That's true. Right.
-Yeah.
535
00:28:53,733 --> 00:28:56,861
Like, you can't imagine them
putting a quarter in a parking meter
536
00:28:56,945 --> 00:28:58,905
or, like, eating a bologna sandwich.
537
00:28:58,988 --> 00:29:00,907
Whereas Alanis Morissette,
538
00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:05,370
I can and have imagined her just, like,
chowing down on a bologna sandwich.
539
00:29:05,453 --> 00:29:07,205
- I find her absolutely riveting.
-That's really nice.
540
00:29:07,288 --> 00:29:09,374
How'd you get into her?
How did you get into her music? I mean...
541
00:29:09,457 --> 00:29:12,043
I was listening to this
cheesy Bloomington radio,
542
00:29:12,127 --> 00:29:14,087
and I Wanna Tell You came on.
543
00:29:14,379 --> 00:29:16,172
Right, oh,
You Oughta Know, but right.
544
00:29:16,256 --> 00:29:18,341
- I don't know what that means.
-No, no. Um...
545
00:29:18,842 --> 00:29:21,136
I Want To Tell You
is a book that O.J. Simpson wrote.
546
00:29:22,345 --> 00:29:24,722
- Ah, that's a different thing.
- Yeah.
547
00:29:24,806 --> 00:29:27,183
Although, wouldn't it be funny if
O.J. Simpson sang You Oughta Know
548
00:29:27,267 --> 00:29:30,186
and Alanis Morissette wrote a book
about not killing two people.
549
00:29:30,645 --> 00:29:32,397
Oh, man.
550
00:29:33,273 --> 00:29:35,733
I tell you, if this whole fuss, whatever,
551
00:29:35,817 --> 00:29:38,403
could get me
a five-minute cup of tea with her...
552
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,366
Yo, why don't you put out your feelers
and see if she'd be willing to meet you?
553
00:29:43,450 --> 00:29:45,410
Are you serious? I would never do that.
554
00:29:45,493 --> 00:29:46,494
Why not?
555
00:29:46,578 --> 00:29:49,247
I would be terrified.
Why? Would you do that?
556
00:29:49,497 --> 00:29:51,958
Um, if I were you, yeah,
I would do that.
557
00:29:52,041 --> 00:29:54,752
A day with Alanis Morissette.
What would I say?
558
00:29:54,836 --> 00:29:58,673
Like, "Hello, Miss Morissette.
What is it like to be you?"
559
00:29:58,756 --> 00:30:02,469
"Um, I don't know.
Shut up and get the fuck away from me."
560
00:30:02,552 --> 00:30:04,012
That's that beautiful squeaky voice you like.
561
00:30:04,095 --> 00:30:05,138
- That's right. And orgasmic.
-Yeah, yeah.
562
00:30:05,221 --> 00:30:06,931
But, you know,
you would go if she called you.
563
00:30:07,015 --> 00:30:08,892
"Hey, Dave, I'm at the Drake in Chicago.
Let's have that tea."
564
00:30:08,975 --> 00:30:11,478
Okay, this is gonna look ridiculous.
565
00:30:11,561 --> 00:30:15,773
All right? It's gonna look like I'm using
Rolling Stone as a vehicle to, like...
566
00:30:15,857 --> 00:30:18,318
-it's been used for worse.
-Yes, I would do it.
567
00:30:18,401 --> 00:30:21,863
- Okay? I would do it in a heartbeat.
-Yeah. Good.
568
00:30:21,946 --> 00:30:24,449
- Just, like, perspiring heavily the whole way.
-Right.
569
00:30:24,532 --> 00:30:26,117
The whole time
shoving Certs into my mouth...
570
00:30:26,201 --> 00:30:27,160
Exactly.
571
00:30:27,243 --> 00:30:30,121
...freaking out, it would cause me
a week of absolute trauma,
572
00:30:30,205 --> 00:30:32,916
and, yes, I would do it in a heartbeat.
573
00:30:32,999 --> 00:30:34,626
- Okay, are you happy?
-Yeah. We got that?
574
00:30:34,709 --> 00:30:36,669
- It's on the record.
-Okay. Um...
575
00:30:39,297 --> 00:30:40,548
I like... Yeah.
576
00:30:44,719 --> 00:30:46,763
I like talking to you about this stuff.
577
00:30:46,846 --> 00:30:49,307
Uh, but we should...
You know, we gotta be up early.
578
00:30:49,390 --> 00:30:51,267
Really? What time is it? It is, like, 10:00.
579
00:30:52,060 --> 00:30:53,895
Think it's, like, 11:30, dick-brain.
580
00:30:54,646 --> 00:30:56,147
Oh, shit, jeez.
581
00:30:56,231 --> 00:30:57,857
I am so sorry.
582
00:30:58,525 --> 00:31:00,235
I totally lost track of time.
583
00:31:00,610 --> 00:31:03,196
Um, what time do you want me to
pick you up tomorrow?
584
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:04,489
Where are you going?
585
00:31:04,572 --> 00:31:06,366
Uh, there's a motel down the road.
I think it's a Days Inn.
586
00:31:06,449 --> 00:31:08,952
Oh. No, you don't wanna stay there.
587
00:31:09,035 --> 00:31:10,286
Trust me.
588
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,124
I've got a guest room-ish place
you could stay in. Come on.
589
00:31:15,208 --> 00:31:17,043
No, no, I don't want to impose.
590
00:31:17,126 --> 00:31:20,171
- Oh, don't thank me yet. It's not much.
- Okay.
591
00:31:22,507 --> 00:31:24,801
Oh, no. No, it's great. Thank you.
592
00:31:24,884 --> 00:31:26,594
You should probably
clean some of that shit off the bed...
593
00:31:26,678 --> 00:31:28,179
- Right.
-For maximum comfort.
594
00:31:28,304 --> 00:31:31,933
- Thanks.
- Definitely wanna change that sheet.
595
00:31:32,016 --> 00:31:34,018
- No, it's fine, thank you.
-Yeah.
596
00:31:34,602 --> 00:31:36,020
- This is...
-Throw this, throw it away.
597
00:31:36,104 --> 00:31:37,355
Okay, here you go.
598
00:31:38,439 --> 00:31:40,024
- Grab one side of this.
-All right, thanks.
599
00:31:40,108 --> 00:31:43,861
And, uh, you wanna change the pillows,
or we just keep 'em?
600
00:31:43,945 --> 00:31:46,948
Don't think you're gonna
catch anything incurable.
601
00:31:48,241 --> 00:31:50,368
- That's all right.
-Got Penicillin.
602
00:31:50,451 --> 00:31:51,744
- Hey, you're good?
-Yeah.
603
00:31:51,828 --> 00:31:54,706
All right. Um, do me a favor.
Leave the door open for the dogs.
604
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:56,249
They like to wander
from room to room at night.
605
00:31:56,332 --> 00:31:59,085
If the door is closed, they, like, eat it
to get through it if they have to.
606
00:31:59,168 --> 00:32:00,878
- Are you serious?
-Yeah.
607
00:32:00,962 --> 00:32:03,381
- Um, okay, yeah.
- Um...
608
00:32:03,464 --> 00:32:04,924
Okay, good night.
609
00:32:05,008 --> 00:32:06,801
- Good night. Thanks. Yeah.
-Cool.
610
00:32:43,463 --> 00:32:45,173
Oh.
611
00:32:47,675 --> 00:32:48,843
Hey.
612
00:32:50,928 --> 00:32:53,097
Hey, buddy. Hey, okay.
613
00:32:53,181 --> 00:32:54,265
How are ya?
614
00:32:54,349 --> 00:32:57,393
Okay. Hey. Oh. All right.
615
00:32:58,353 --> 00:32:59,604
Come on.
616
00:32:59,687 --> 00:33:00,897
Okay.
617
00:33:02,607 --> 00:33:05,568
All right. Thanks. Okay.
618
00:33:07,153 --> 00:33:09,113
Hey, okay.
619
00:33:09,197 --> 00:33:10,990
Have a good night.
620
00:33:13,951 --> 00:33:15,203
Okay.
621
00:33:38,184 --> 00:33:39,435
Oh.
622
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:40,895
Hey,
623
00:33:42,397 --> 00:33:43,690
You want a Nescoffee?
624
00:33:43,773 --> 00:33:45,817
No, I don't need caffeine to wake up.
625
00:33:47,235 --> 00:33:50,321
Oh, but, uh, cigarettes?
626
00:33:50,405 --> 00:33:51,906
- Brothers of the lung.
-Mmm.
627
00:33:54,450 --> 00:33:57,203
Do you wanna split this with me?
It's my last one.
628
00:33:58,496 --> 00:33:59,664
Uh...
629
00:33:59,747 --> 00:34:00,998
No, thanks.
630
00:34:07,171 --> 00:34:08,589
Just... Here.
631
00:34:09,215 --> 00:34:10,717
Take a bit.
632
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,094
Mi Pop-Tart es su Pop-Tart.
633
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:16,389
- Thanks.
-Try it.
634
00:34:17,265 --> 00:34:18,725
It's delicious, right?
635
00:34:19,267 --> 00:34:20,685
It's really good.
636
00:34:40,329 --> 00:34:42,123
- There's the Mitsubishi plant.
- Mmm.
637
00:34:42,206 --> 00:34:46,419
Then there's, like, a lot of farm
support, there's Rotag, Anderson's Seeds.
638
00:34:46,502 --> 00:34:49,881
What are you doing here?
I mean, why are you not in New York?
639
00:34:49,964 --> 00:34:53,551
Every time I go to New York,
I get caught up, and there's sort of like...
640
00:34:54,010 --> 00:34:58,556
There's this enormous hiss of egos
at various states of inflation and deflation.
641
00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:00,600
It's all, "Me, me, me, me."
642
00:35:00,683 --> 00:35:04,395
Yeah.
Hey, um, sorry, but I got to do this.
643
00:35:04,479 --> 00:35:06,063
Oh, yeah, of course.
644
00:35:06,147 --> 00:35:09,734
So, uh, I gotta ask. What is with the bandana?
645
00:35:10,735 --> 00:35:12,570
- What? What do you mean?
-Mmm.
646
00:35:12,653 --> 00:35:17,158
No, people think it's your way of, you know,
connecting to a younger reading audience.
647
00:35:18,409 --> 00:35:20,161
Is that what people think?
648
00:35:20,244 --> 00:35:22,789
I don't see many Gen X-ers wearing 'em. Geez.
649
00:35:22,872 --> 00:35:24,582
I kind of wish
you hadn't brought this up, man.
650
00:35:24,665 --> 00:35:26,292
I'm sorry about that.
651
00:35:26,876 --> 00:35:27,919
Why?
652
00:35:28,002 --> 00:35:29,670
'Cause now I'm worried
it's gonna seem intentional.
653
00:35:29,754 --> 00:35:30,755
Hmm.
654
00:35:30,838 --> 00:35:32,465
Like, if I don't wear it, am I not wearing it
655
00:35:32,548 --> 00:35:34,258
'cause I'm bowing to
other people's perception
656
00:35:34,342 --> 00:35:35,593
-that it's a commercial choice?
-Right.
657
00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:38,554
Or do I do what I wanna do even though
it's perceived as a commercial choice?
658
00:35:38,638 --> 00:35:41,849
And it's like a whole crazy circle
I gotta go around now.
659
00:35:41,933 --> 00:35:43,643
- Come on.
-Or what... Sorry.
660
00:35:43,726 --> 00:35:45,144
When did you start wearing them?
661
00:35:46,437 --> 00:35:49,023
In Tucson, it was, like,
100 degrees all the time.
662
00:35:49,106 --> 00:35:52,777
I would perspire so heavily,
drip in the electric typewriter.
663
00:35:52,860 --> 00:35:55,154
I was nervous
I was gonna give myself a shock.
664
00:35:55,238 --> 00:35:58,616
And then at some point,
I realized I felt better with them on.
665
00:36:00,868 --> 00:36:02,703
I know that it's a security blanket for me
666
00:36:02,787 --> 00:36:06,415
whenever I feel nervous
or I gotta keep myself together.
667
00:36:07,291 --> 00:36:09,919
Makes me feel kind of creepy
people view it as an affectation
668
00:36:10,002 --> 00:36:11,337
-or a trademark or something.
-Okay.
669
00:36:11,420 --> 00:36:12,922
It's more of a foible.
670
00:36:13,005 --> 00:36:14,215
Like a recognition of a weakness
671
00:36:14,298 --> 00:36:16,133
that I'm kind of afraid
my head is gonna explode.
672
00:36:16,217 --> 00:36:17,802
- Right.
- Jesus.
673
00:36:23,224 --> 00:36:25,309
Your parents are both academics.
Is that right?
674
00:36:26,143 --> 00:36:29,313
Yeah, my dad, philosophy,
my mom, English, so...
675
00:36:29,897 --> 00:36:30,898
You'?
676
00:36:31,566 --> 00:36:32,984
- Me?
-Yeah.
677
00:36:34,402 --> 00:36:37,196
No, no, my dad is in advertising,
and my mom's a painter.
678
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,283
In fact, when they split up, uh,
I moved in with her to Soho,
679
00:36:40,366 --> 00:36:41,742
and my brother moved in with my dad.
680
00:36:42,243 --> 00:36:43,828
Sounds like there's a story there.
681
00:36:43,911 --> 00:36:46,372
Oh, there is. I, uh... I just wrote it.
682
00:36:47,582 --> 00:36:50,501
What was it like, you know,
growing up in a house divided like that?
683
00:36:50,835 --> 00:36:53,880
Hey.
Hey, who's interviewing who?
684
00:36:57,758 --> 00:37:00,428
How old were you
when you started writing fiction?
685
00:37:00,511 --> 00:37:02,179
Like, 21, something like that.
686
00:37:02,263 --> 00:37:04,015
- Really? Never before?
-Yeah.
687
00:37:04,098 --> 00:37:06,893
Nah, I think I started a World War ll novel
when I was, like, nine.
688
00:37:06,976 --> 00:37:08,019
- Did you?
-Yeah.
689
00:37:08,102 --> 00:37:09,520
- Oh, that's very ambitious.
-Oh, thank you.
690
00:37:09,604 --> 00:37:10,730
It was so good.
691
00:37:10,813 --> 00:37:12,565
- Some of my best work. Yeah.
-Come on.
692
00:37:12,648 --> 00:37:15,359
It was about people who, like,
hyper-develop skills and powers
693
00:37:15,443 --> 00:37:17,153
going to invade Hitler's bunker.
694
00:37:17,236 --> 00:37:18,487
Hmm, very nice.
695
00:37:18,571 --> 00:37:22,074
And then in college,
I wrote a couple papers for other people.
696
00:37:22,158 --> 00:37:25,661
Really? Like, people paid you
to write their papers for them?
697
00:37:26,454 --> 00:37:28,915
- I mean, I wouldn't put it that coarsely.
-Okay, how would you...
698
00:37:28,998 --> 00:37:31,584
- There was a complicated system of awards.
-I see.
699
00:37:32,084 --> 00:37:33,753
I would read, like,
two or three of their papers
700
00:37:33,836 --> 00:37:35,838
-and get a sense of what their music was like.
-Ah.
701
00:37:35,922 --> 00:37:38,883
And at some point I realized,
"I'm really good at this."
702
00:37:38,966 --> 00:37:41,135
I'm like a strange kind of forger.
703
00:37:41,218 --> 00:37:43,220
I can sort of sound like anybody.
704
00:37:43,304 --> 00:37:45,389
That's kind of scary. Um...
705
00:37:46,057 --> 00:37:48,809
Listen, odds are,
I'm gonna wanna interview your parents.
706
00:37:50,937 --> 00:37:53,731
- What for?
-Just biographical stuff.
707
00:37:53,814 --> 00:37:55,066
Right.
708
00:37:56,651 --> 00:37:58,819
I hereby request that you don't.
709
00:37:58,903 --> 00:38:01,572
- Really?
-They're very private people,
710
00:38:01,656 --> 00:38:02,907
and so I would have a problem with that.
711
00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:04,825
Mmm. Okay.
712
00:38:04,909 --> 00:38:06,869
So, no, you may not.
713
00:38:08,454 --> 00:38:10,873
Okay, I may not.
714
00:38:18,214 --> 00:38:21,175
Now boarding Flight 54 to Minneapolis.
715
00:38:23,928 --> 00:38:25,179
Hello. Thank you.
716
00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:32,770
- Crap jobs?
- Yeah.
717
00:38:32,853 --> 00:38:36,190
Oh, man, I was a security guard
at a software company
718
00:38:36,273 --> 00:38:38,150
-for three-and-a-half months.
-Really?
719
00:38:38,234 --> 00:38:40,486
Yeah, I walked around in
this polyester uniform...
720
00:38:40,569 --> 00:38:41,612
Mmm.
721
00:38:41,696 --> 00:38:43,781
...under these florescent lights,
twirling a baton...
722
00:38:43,864 --> 00:38:44,824
Really?
723
00:38:44,907 --> 00:38:46,283
Checking in on the walkie
every 10 minutes,
724
00:38:46,367 --> 00:38:49,078
-like, "All clear at this cubicle."
-Right.
725
00:38:49,161 --> 00:38:51,580
That was like every bad '60s novel
about meaningless authority.
726
00:38:51,664 --> 00:38:52,707
Right, of course, and you're thinking,
727
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:55,668
"My God, I had two books come out
in my early 20s and here I am."
728
00:38:55,751 --> 00:38:56,752
- No.
-No?
729
00:38:56,836 --> 00:38:59,630
No, as a matter of fact,
one of the things I liked about that job
730
00:38:59,714 --> 00:39:02,425
-is that I walked around not thinking. Mmm.
-Really?
731
00:39:02,508 --> 00:39:06,012
In a very, like,
"Huh, a ceiling tile" sort of way.
732
00:39:06,095 --> 00:39:08,431
Right. Okay, and what about
after the security guard thing?
733
00:39:08,514 --> 00:39:09,807
Was there anything else?
734
00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:11,559
- Oh, this is the worst.
-What?
735
00:39:11,642 --> 00:39:13,352
- Yeah, get this down, okay?
-I am.
736
00:39:13,436 --> 00:39:15,938
I was a towel boy at the Chi Chi Health Club.
737
00:39:16,022 --> 00:39:17,064
No. You were a towel boy?
738
00:39:17,148 --> 00:39:18,274
I was called something
other than a towel boy.
739
00:39:18,357 --> 00:39:20,359
- I was, in effect, the towel boy.
-A towel boy. Yeah, okay.
740
00:39:20,443 --> 00:39:21,902
Occasionally entrusted with
checking people in,
741
00:39:21,986 --> 00:39:23,738
-like, "Show your ID."
-Right. Oh.
742
00:39:23,821 --> 00:39:26,407
Anyway, so one day I'm sitting there.
Who should walk in to get that towel
743
00:39:26,490 --> 00:39:29,285
-but this guy, this writer that I knew?
-Yeah.
744
00:39:29,368 --> 00:39:31,662
Who won a Whiting Writers' Award
the same year I had.
745
00:39:31,746 --> 00:39:32,788
- Oh, God.
-Yeah.
746
00:39:32,872 --> 00:39:35,541
- So, there I am. I'm sitting there.
-Yeah.
747
00:39:35,624 --> 00:39:39,712
And I've been up on a rostrum with this guy
having Eudora Welty give us an award.
748
00:39:39,795 --> 00:39:42,131
- Mmm.
-Two years later, I'm sitting there.
749
00:39:42,214 --> 00:39:44,550
- It's the first time I remember ever actively...
-Yeah.
750
00:39:44,633 --> 00:39:46,677
...diving under something
that somebody avoids seeing me.
751
00:39:46,761 --> 00:39:48,220
- You dove under a table?
-Yeah, something like that.
752
00:39:48,304 --> 00:39:49,764
Did you think you were done then?
753
00:39:49,847 --> 00:39:52,099
Oh. I thought life was over. I was pretty sure.
754
00:39:52,183 --> 00:39:54,351
And was this after your suicide watch?
755
00:39:59,857 --> 00:40:01,150
Okay, how do you know about that?
756
00:40:01,609 --> 00:40:03,694
- I... I read about it somewhere.
-Okay.
757
00:40:03,778 --> 00:40:04,945
- This was McLean's, right?
-Yeah.
758
00:40:05,029 --> 00:40:06,530
How long were you there?
759
00:40:07,281 --> 00:40:09,366
I was there for eight days.
760
00:40:09,450 --> 00:40:10,534
And why were you there?
761
00:40:10,951 --> 00:40:13,537
Because I was probably afraid
that I would do something stupid.
762
00:40:13,621 --> 00:40:14,955
Okay.
763
00:40:18,125 --> 00:40:19,794
- I had a friend in high school...
-Yeah.
764
00:40:19,877 --> 00:40:23,089
...who tried to kill himself
by sitting in a garage with the car running.
765
00:40:23,172 --> 00:40:25,299
- And what it turned out was, he didn't die.
-Mmm-hmm.
766
00:40:25,382 --> 00:40:26,926
Just really fucked up his brain.
767
00:40:27,009 --> 00:40:29,095
And I, you know...
768
00:40:29,178 --> 00:40:32,348
I knew that if anyone was fated to fuck up
a suicide attempt, it was me.
769
00:40:32,431 --> 00:40:33,557
Okay, so... All right.
770
00:40:33,641 --> 00:40:35,684
- So, there you are, you're still in your 20s...
-My late 20s.
771
00:40:35,768 --> 00:40:37,561
Okay, your late 20s.
772
00:40:37,645 --> 00:40:39,855
And you're in, uh, some kind of pain
773
00:40:39,939 --> 00:40:42,316
about your desire to become
some sort of successful literary person.
774
00:40:42,399 --> 00:40:46,570
I think that the not-very-sophisticated
diagnosis is that I was depressed.
775
00:40:47,822 --> 00:40:49,865
- Okay.
-So, yeah.
776
00:40:50,533 --> 00:40:52,326
At that point,
my ego was all tied up in my writing.
777
00:40:52,409 --> 00:40:53,410
Mmm-hmm.
778
00:40:53,494 --> 00:40:58,874
It's the only thing that I had gotten any
sort of food palates from the universe for.
779
00:40:58,958 --> 00:41:00,709
And I felt very trapped.
780
00:41:00,793 --> 00:41:03,587
You know, "Uh-oh, my five years are up,
and I gotta move on."
781
00:41:03,671 --> 00:41:05,339
I don't wanna move on.
782
00:41:06,132 --> 00:41:07,800
And I felt stuck.
783
00:41:09,552 --> 00:41:12,221
And it's not like I felt stuck
because I drank, okay?
784
00:41:12,304 --> 00:41:13,597
It was like...
785
00:41:14,348 --> 00:41:16,976
I felt like my life was over at 28,
786
00:41:17,059 --> 00:41:19,103
and that felt really bad.
787
00:41:20,312 --> 00:41:23,023
I did not wanna feel that,
and so I did all sorts of stuff.
788
00:41:23,107 --> 00:41:25,109
- Mmm-hmm.
-I would drink real heavy.
789
00:41:25,192 --> 00:41:27,987
- I would fuck strangers.
-Mmm.
790
00:41:28,195 --> 00:41:29,613
Sometimes I would not drink at all.
791
00:41:29,697 --> 00:41:30,948
Not drink at all for, like, two weeks.
792
00:41:31,031 --> 00:41:34,869
But instead I would, like,
run 10 miles every morning in a desperate...
793
00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:39,415
Like a very American
794
00:41:40,166 --> 00:41:45,379
"I will fix this somehow
by taking radical action" sort of thing.
795
00:41:48,340 --> 00:41:51,051
And here you are
promoting this acclaimed book.
796
00:41:51,135 --> 00:41:52,720
That's not bad.
797
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:00,311
David, this is nice.
798
00:42:01,395 --> 00:42:03,063
This is not real.
799
00:42:12,448 --> 00:42:14,617
Oh, by the way, an escort is
supposed to pick me up
800
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:16,994
-and escort me to the reading.
-Right.
801
00:42:17,077 --> 00:42:20,331
Of course, when I hear "escort,"
I picture, like, full geisha...
802
00:42:20,414 --> 00:42:22,166
Right, yeah, of course, right.
803
00:42:22,249 --> 00:42:24,752
Take you to the bookstore
and take you back to the hotel,
804
00:42:24,835 --> 00:42:28,005
then walk on your back
and then just fuck your eyeballs out.
805
00:42:28,088 --> 00:42:29,173
I think that's her.
806
00:42:29,256 --> 00:42:30,799
Ah, just as I pictured.
807
00:42:31,258 --> 00:42:33,093
- Mr. Wallace.
-Dave.
808
00:42:33,427 --> 00:42:36,347
- I recognize you from your photograph.
-Okay.
809
00:42:36,430 --> 00:42:37,640
I'm Patty Gunderson.
810
00:42:37,723 --> 00:42:40,476
- And welcome to Minneapolis.
-Ah, well, thank you, Patty.
811
00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:42,853
- Uh, hi, I'm David Lipsky. How are you?
-Oh, hi.
812
00:42:42,937 --> 00:42:45,105
- Okay, David and David. That's easy.
-Yeah.
813
00:42:45,189 --> 00:42:46,565
It's a twin city, so...
814
00:42:46,690 --> 00:42:47,775
Hmm.
815
00:42:47,858 --> 00:42:50,527
We only just met.
He's writing a piece on the tour.
816
00:42:50,611 --> 00:42:51,904
Should we get going?
817
00:42:51,987 --> 00:42:54,865
- Yes, come on, come on, great.
- Great.
818
00:42:54,949 --> 00:42:56,533
- How's your morning, Patty?
- Oh, it's good.
819
00:42:56,617 --> 00:42:58,619
How about you guys?
Was the flight all right?
820
00:43:05,417 --> 00:43:09,630
You would not believe
the, uh, famous people I've driven.
821
00:43:09,713 --> 00:43:12,466
Shirley MacLaine,
when she was on her book tour.
822
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,386
Ron Wood, you know, of the Rolling Stones.
823
00:43:15,469 --> 00:43:16,845
- Of course, yeah, well.
- Um...
824
00:43:16,929 --> 00:43:19,723
Peter O'Toole. Oh, my gosh.
825
00:43:19,807 --> 00:43:21,558
Very thin but delightful.
826
00:43:21,642 --> 00:43:23,644
Hey, look, there's
the Mary Tyler Moore statue.
827
00:43:23,978 --> 00:43:25,312
Yeah, there it is.
828
00:43:25,396 --> 00:43:26,730
Did you wanna stop?
829
00:43:27,439 --> 00:43:29,566
- Oh.
-No, that's fine, thank you.
830
00:43:29,650 --> 00:43:30,651
Are... Are you sure?
831
00:43:30,734 --> 00:43:33,696
Because everybody who comes here,
that's the first thing they wanna see.
832
00:43:33,779 --> 00:43:37,241
It's, "Where did Mary Tyler Moore
throw her hat up in the air?"
833
00:43:37,324 --> 00:43:38,909
It's really one of our biggest attractions.
834
00:43:38,993 --> 00:43:40,744
Are you sure you don't want me to stop?
835
00:43:41,578 --> 00:43:44,039
- Definitely, no. Thank you, though.
-Hmm.
836
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:47,334
Trust me, this is about as sexy
as the tour gets.
837
00:43:48,711 --> 00:43:50,421
- Mister...
-Oh, Lipsky.
838
00:43:50,546 --> 00:43:52,423
L-I-P-S-K-Y.
839
00:43:53,299 --> 00:43:55,092
I've got you in a standard double.
840
00:43:55,175 --> 00:43:57,428
- And Mr. Wallace?
- Yes.
841
00:43:57,970 --> 00:44:00,014
You have a room with twins.
842
00:44:00,347 --> 00:44:01,598
Ah, yes.
843
00:44:01,682 --> 00:44:03,350
Anita and Consuela.
844
00:44:04,643 --> 00:44:05,853
Excuse me?
845
00:44:10,316 --> 00:44:12,443
All right, man, I'll see you soon.
I'm gonna take a nap.
846
00:44:12,526 --> 00:44:14,695
Oh. Uh...
847
00:44:16,613 --> 00:44:17,614
Yeah.
848
00:44:17,698 --> 00:44:19,742
Well, what does he have to say
about the heroin rumor?
849
00:44:19,908 --> 00:44:21,618
I haven't gotten to that yet.
850
00:44:21,702 --> 00:44:23,037
What're you waiting for?
851
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,164
What... What am I supposed to say?
"Is it..."
852
00:44:25,247 --> 00:44:26,707
"Is it true you are a heroin addict?"
853
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:28,292
Yes, that's your story.
854
00:44:28,375 --> 00:44:31,045
Oh.
Okay, well, that's... It's hard.
855
00:44:31,128 --> 00:44:32,463
Why? Because you like him?
856
00:44:32,546 --> 00:44:34,798
Well... Yeah, yes.
857
00:44:34,882 --> 00:44:36,967
- David, you gotta press him.
- Okay.
858
00:44:37,051 --> 00:44:38,135
Be a prick if you have to.
859
00:44:38,218 --> 00:44:39,803
- You're not his best buddy.
- I know.
860
00:44:39,887 --> 00:44:41,764
- You're a reporter.
- All right, bye.
861
00:44:53,192 --> 00:44:55,027
It's right up here.
862
00:44:57,571 --> 00:44:58,989
Ready?
863
00:45:03,077 --> 00:45:04,328
Yes.
864
00:45:04,411 --> 00:45:06,705
- I can't believe you guys actually came.
- Yeah, of course.
865
00:45:06,789 --> 00:45:08,374
- Hi.
- Hi.
866
00:45:08,457 --> 00:45:09,541
- Wouldn't miss it.
- Hello.
867
00:45:09,625 --> 00:45:10,834
Gluttons for punishment, both of you.
868
00:45:10,918 --> 00:45:12,211
You know us.
869
00:45:12,753 --> 00:45:16,715
Um, this is Dave Lipsky.
He's a reporter for Rolling Stone.
870
00:45:16,799 --> 00:45:18,008
- Uh, yes, hi.
- Oh.
871
00:45:18,092 --> 00:45:19,051
This is Julie.
872
00:45:19,134 --> 00:45:20,511
- Uh, hi, nice to meet you, Julie.
-Hi.
873
00:45:20,594 --> 00:45:22,096
- Great to meet you.
-Good.
874
00:45:22,179 --> 00:45:23,680
- And, uh...
-This is Betsy.
875
00:45:23,764 --> 00:45:25,432
Betsy and I went to grad school together.
876
00:45:25,516 --> 00:45:27,434
- Oh, how nice. Nice to meet you, Betsy.
-Hi.
877
00:45:27,518 --> 00:45:28,894
And, Julie, how do you...
878
00:45:28,977 --> 00:45:30,104
Oh, Julie...
879
00:45:30,187 --> 00:45:31,605
Here, turn this on. This is on, right?
880
00:45:31,688 --> 00:45:33,190
- It is. Why?
-Go ahead.
881
00:45:33,273 --> 00:45:35,359
- Do you wanna... I'll do it.
-Yeah?
882
00:45:35,442 --> 00:45:37,945
- Julie wrote me a fan letter.
-Really? Really?
883
00:45:38,028 --> 00:45:40,406
Mmm-hmm. I really did. I... Yeah.
884
00:45:40,489 --> 00:45:43,492
I was the books editor at City Pages,
and I wrote him a fan letter.
885
00:45:43,575 --> 00:45:45,369
Julie's worked
with a whole lot of writers.
886
00:45:45,452 --> 00:45:47,579
- So, I was very discriminating.
- Oh.
887
00:45:47,871 --> 00:45:50,541
And then it turned out
that we actually like each other as people.
888
00:45:50,624 --> 00:45:52,209
- Indeed.
- That's actually what happened
889
00:45:52,292 --> 00:45:53,293
with Jon Franzen and me.
890
00:45:53,377 --> 00:45:54,920
- Really? Ah.
-I wrote him a fan letter.
891
00:45:55,003 --> 00:45:57,965
Turns out writers are real pushovers
when it comes to flattery.
892
00:45:58,048 --> 00:45:59,258
- Are you...
-So, you could try that at some point
893
00:45:59,341 --> 00:46:00,426
-if you want us to...
-Okay, I got it.
894
00:46:00,509 --> 00:46:01,718
Very subtle. Yeah.
895
00:46:01,802 --> 00:46:05,556
- Friends of friends who have friends as well.
-Yeah.
896
00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:06,974
- Yeah, who actually know who...
-Cookies?
897
00:46:07,057 --> 00:46:09,268
- Oh. No, thanks a lot. Betsy, you...
-No, thank you.
898
00:46:09,351 --> 00:46:10,727
All right, no. Cookies?
899
00:46:10,811 --> 00:46:12,855
- Really?
-Yes. And I've been, uh...
900
00:46:12,938 --> 00:46:14,857
- I've actually been sworn to secrecy.
-So, you know.
901
00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:15,899
- Are you sure I can't...
-I do.
902
00:46:15,983 --> 00:46:17,151
-...get you something to drink?
-But I think...
903
00:46:17,234 --> 00:46:18,735
- Wait, sorry. One second.
- Oh, no...
904
00:46:18,819 --> 00:46:21,155
Do you have any artificial spit?
905
00:46:22,322 --> 00:46:23,907
- What?
-I don't know why you guys are laughing.
906
00:46:23,991 --> 00:46:25,784
It's an actual pharmaceutical product.
907
00:46:25,868 --> 00:46:27,119
- Wait, wait.
-Called Zero Lube.
908
00:46:27,202 --> 00:46:28,912
-It's like artificial saliva?
-That's right.
909
00:46:28,996 --> 00:46:30,539
- Really?
-That's right, David. Yeah.
910
00:46:30,622 --> 00:46:32,791
Except it's better
because it actually lubricates.
911
00:46:32,875 --> 00:46:34,710
- Really?
- You don't get that, like...
912
00:46:35,461 --> 00:46:36,795
- I see.
- That click-y sound.
913
00:46:36,879 --> 00:46:40,257
- Can you do that for Rolling Stone? Yeah.
- Yeah, here we go.
914
00:46:40,340 --> 00:46:42,342
I have to remember that.
915
00:46:42,426 --> 00:46:44,761
Oh, that's all right,
next tour I'll bring myself a case.
916
00:46:44,845 --> 00:46:47,431
In the meantime, what can I get you?
917
00:46:47,514 --> 00:46:50,100
Uh, just water with no ice, please.
Thank you.
918
00:46:50,184 --> 00:46:51,393
Um, so, are you, like, a fiction...
919
00:46:51,477 --> 00:46:53,103
- This is off the record, by the way.
-Oh, good.
920
00:46:53,187 --> 00:46:55,397
- Are you a fiction writer?
-Uh, I'm a poet, actually.
921
00:46:55,481 --> 00:46:58,525
Really? Would I have
seen anything of yours?
922
00:46:58,609 --> 00:47:00,861
I just had my first poem
published in The Kenyon Review.
923
00:47:00,944 --> 00:47:02,404
- Really? Wow. That's...
- Yes.
924
00:47:02,488 --> 00:47:04,156
- Congratulations.
- Thank you.
925
00:47:09,077 --> 00:47:11,455
You know, I'm sorry,
I don't mean to be a prima donna,
926
00:47:11,538 --> 00:47:14,124
but do you mind if we don't do a Q and A?
927
00:47:14,208 --> 00:47:16,627
Oh, yeah, of course.
Whatever makes you feel most comfortable.
928
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:17,669
- Thank you.
-Sure.
929
00:47:17,753 --> 00:47:20,297
It's just, it's always questions like,
"Where do you get your ideas?"
930
00:47:20,380 --> 00:47:21,381
Right.
931
00:47:21,465 --> 00:47:23,258
I don't know,
from a Time Life subscription series
932
00:47:23,342 --> 00:47:25,135
for $17.95 a month, right?
933
00:47:25,219 --> 00:47:26,845
Okay. Now, it's showtime.
934
00:47:26,929 --> 00:47:28,180
Okay.
935
00:47:29,473 --> 00:47:31,391
- Here we go.
-Yeah.
936
00:47:31,475 --> 00:47:33,519
-It's all downhill from here.
-it's fine.
937
00:47:33,602 --> 00:47:37,397
This is the very last stop on his book tour.
938
00:47:37,731 --> 00:47:39,525
And we're very lucky to get him.
939
00:47:39,608 --> 00:47:42,361
Ladies and gentlemen,
welcome to The Hungry Mind,
940
00:47:42,444 --> 00:47:44,071
David Foster Wallace.
941
00:47:53,247 --> 00:47:54,915
- Hello. Hi.
-Hi.
942
00:47:55,666 --> 00:47:56,667
...my mother.
943
00:47:56,750 --> 00:47:58,377
- No, I never show...
-You never show your mother anything?
944
00:47:58,460 --> 00:48:00,504
- Now I feel embarrassed that I said that.
-But that's very sweet.
945
00:48:00,587 --> 00:48:01,838
Yeah, it is, right? See?
946
00:48:01,922 --> 00:48:03,715
What's that supposed to be, a computer?
947
00:48:03,799 --> 00:48:05,968
- No, that's a smiley face.
-Oh.
948
00:48:06,927 --> 00:48:09,221
- I can put white-out on it if you want.
-That's okay.
949
00:48:09,304 --> 00:48:11,431
It's your book. Okay.
950
00:48:12,933 --> 00:48:14,768
Oh, man, this old thing.
951
00:48:14,851 --> 00:48:16,019
Do you mind?
952
00:48:16,103 --> 00:48:18,897
I don't mind, but the new one's a lot better.
953
00:48:19,565 --> 00:48:20,566
Awesome.
954
00:48:20,649 --> 00:48:23,819
I think I just realized that
they want me to be good.
955
00:48:24,611 --> 00:48:26,154
You know what I mean?
It's a challenging...
956
00:48:26,238 --> 00:48:30,367
I don't know. It's just something about
giving back, you know, in that way,
957
00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:33,787
that made me feel, uh,
kind of better about everything.
958
00:48:33,870 --> 00:48:36,498
- Please, give us the...
-it's not that there's no story.
959
00:48:36,582 --> 00:48:38,041
Okay, well, how did it happen?
960
00:48:38,125 --> 00:48:39,668
-Okay.
-Okay.
961
00:48:39,751 --> 00:48:41,420
I couldn't be regular old Dave Wallace,
962
00:48:41,503 --> 00:48:43,297
'cause there were Dave Wallaces
all over the place.
963
00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:45,299
And then David Rains Wallace
wrote for The New Yorker,
964
00:48:45,382 --> 00:48:46,550
- I don't know if you remember.
-Yeah.
965
00:48:46,633 --> 00:48:49,136
So then one day,
it was Fred Hill who asked me...
966
00:48:49,219 --> 00:48:50,887
- Right.
-"What's your middle name?"
967
00:48:50,971 --> 00:48:52,514
"David Foster Wallace."
That's it. That's the story.
968
00:48:52,598 --> 00:48:53,849
- That's your story?
-Yes.
969
00:48:53,932 --> 00:48:56,310
That is, literally, the worst
superhero origin story I've ever heard.
970
00:48:56,393 --> 00:48:59,605
- I did not claim that it was an origin story.
-it's like Bookman.
971
00:48:59,688 --> 00:49:03,025
Dave, remember in Tucson that professor
you kind of locked horns with?
972
00:49:03,108 --> 00:49:04,693
- Oh, man. My nemesis...
Mmm-hmm.
973
00:49:04,776 --> 00:49:05,819
...who shall remain nameless.
974
00:49:05,902 --> 00:49:07,696
- Oh, come on.
-No, I was just kind of a prick.
975
00:49:07,779 --> 00:49:09,072
I think he was, too.
976
00:49:09,156 --> 00:49:10,490
- Hmm.
-I was unteachable.
977
00:49:10,574 --> 00:49:12,576
I don't think I was
actively unpleasant in class.
978
00:49:12,659 --> 00:49:13,619
Really?
979
00:49:13,702 --> 00:49:15,912
- You were fairly unpleasant.
-Okay, Betsy.
980
00:49:15,996 --> 00:49:17,247
- Really?
- Betsy.
981
00:49:17,331 --> 00:49:19,207
Well, I loved it. I loved it.
982
00:49:19,291 --> 00:49:20,917
- Betsy, this is...
-No, the more unpleasant, the better.
983
00:49:21,001 --> 00:49:22,210
That's important information.
984
00:49:22,294 --> 00:49:23,837
- He was pleasantly unpleasant.
-Okay.
985
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,547
- Thank... That's a great quote.
-Sure, sure.
986
00:49:25,631 --> 00:49:26,882
- If you want to quote something.
-I'm gonna...
987
00:49:26,965 --> 00:49:30,135
- Destined to be the teacher as well, though.
-He was pleasantly unpleasant.
988
00:49:31,970 --> 00:49:34,890
I have to be up unconscionably early
for this public radio interview,
989
00:49:34,973 --> 00:49:36,433
-so we should probably get going.
-Yeah, but that means
990
00:49:36,516 --> 00:49:37,768
I have to get up early, too.
991
00:49:37,851 --> 00:49:39,811
You know what,
you can do whatever the fuck you want.
992
00:49:39,895 --> 00:49:41,021
You know?
993
00:49:41,104 --> 00:49:43,982
You can sleep in if you want to.
994
00:49:44,066 --> 00:49:47,402
- Well, we'll get you back to the hotel, then.
-Yeah, yeah.
995
00:49:47,486 --> 00:49:48,695
- Check?
-You know what? I will get the check.
996
00:49:48,779 --> 00:49:51,031
- Just go ahead.
- No, no, no. Please, this one is on me.
997
00:49:51,114 --> 00:49:52,741
- You don't have to do that.
- Well, it's on Jann.
998
00:49:52,824 --> 00:49:54,159
- No, no, no. It's on me.
-Who's Jann?
999
00:49:54,242 --> 00:49:56,411
- Jann?
- Jann's his boss.
1000
00:49:56,495 --> 00:49:58,747
No, this one is on me.
it was just so nice to meet you guys.
1001
00:49:58,830 --> 00:50:00,457
- Mr. Rolling Stone.
- Yeah.
1002
00:50:00,540 --> 00:50:04,503
And I'm here, to remind you
1003
00:50:04,961 --> 00:50:09,091
Of the mess you left when you went away
1004
00:50:09,716 --> 00:50:13,720
It's not fair, to deny me
1005
00:50:14,096 --> 00:50:17,974
Of the cross I bear that you gave to me
1006
00:50:18,058 --> 00:50:21,228
You, you, you ought to know
1007
00:50:21,728 --> 00:50:24,731
You seem very well...
1008
00:50:24,815 --> 00:50:26,733
Can you close the window?
It's fucking freezing.
1009
00:50:26,817 --> 00:50:27,859
Uh, no, sorry, I cannot.
1010
00:50:27,943 --> 00:50:29,986
This is our hypothermia
smoking tour of the Midwest.
1011
00:50:30,070 --> 00:50:33,824
- "Hypothermia smoking tour"?
- Yeah.
1012
00:50:33,907 --> 00:50:35,617
- I love that.
-Oh, thank you.
1013
00:50:35,701 --> 00:50:37,327
Sounds like something
Dave would say.
1014
00:50:37,411 --> 00:50:38,745
Doesn't it?
1015
00:50:39,162 --> 00:50:43,667
Did you forget about me,
Mr. Duplicity?
1016
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:48,004
I hate to bug you in the middle of dinner
1017
00:50:48,088 --> 00:50:50,549
It was a slap in the face...
1018
00:50:50,632 --> 00:50:52,551
- Thanks, ladies.
- Yeah, sure.
1019
00:50:53,260 --> 00:50:54,678
- Yeah, thank you so much.
- Sure.
1020
00:50:54,761 --> 00:50:56,847
- Yeah, thank you.
-Um, what are you doing tomorrow?
1021
00:50:56,930 --> 00:50:58,765
- Uh, I'm not sure yet.
-Um... Yeah.
1022
00:50:59,975 --> 00:51:02,102
- Well, give us a call if you want.
-We're here.
1023
00:51:02,561 --> 00:51:03,729
- Okay.
-All right, will do.
1024
00:51:03,812 --> 00:51:05,731
- Thanks again for coming.
-Yeah. Thank you so much.
1025
00:51:05,814 --> 00:51:07,274
- Nice to meet you, Julie.
-See you.
1026
00:51:07,357 --> 00:51:08,567
- Bye, Betsy.
-See you. You, too.
1027
00:51:08,650 --> 00:51:09,985
- Bye, David.
-Bye.
1028
00:51:18,076 --> 00:51:19,202
That was fun.
1029
00:51:19,286 --> 00:51:20,704
- Yeah, it was nice.
-Yeah.
1030
00:51:21,371 --> 00:51:23,331
- All right, I'm hungry.
-Still?
1031
00:51:24,958 --> 00:51:26,960
Yeah.
It's terrifying when it's happening.
1032
00:51:27,043 --> 00:51:28,628
- What? And, um...
- Yeah, it's...
1033
00:51:28,712 --> 00:51:29,880
How does it feel though?
1034
00:51:29,963 --> 00:51:33,341
People fighting to get in, a big line
of people wanting to impress you.
1035
00:51:34,718 --> 00:51:38,889
I'll tell you what. I think that having an
audience of really, really pretty girls,
1036
00:51:38,972 --> 00:51:42,225
who are all paying attention to you
and kind of like what you're saying.
1037
00:51:42,851 --> 00:51:47,898
That's gratifying on a fairly, I think,
simple mammal level.
1038
00:51:47,981 --> 00:51:50,108
I know. Why is that?
1039
00:51:50,817 --> 00:51:53,612
I think pretty girls are
what we most dream and despair of
1040
00:51:53,695 --> 00:51:56,448
ever having pay attention to us.
1041
00:51:56,531 --> 00:51:59,826
There they are in the front row,
making eyes at you.
1042
00:52:00,994 --> 00:52:02,746
I think my girlfriend is in love with you.
1043
00:52:04,247 --> 00:52:05,499
- Come on.
-No, really.
1044
00:52:05,582 --> 00:52:06,625
No, she's not.
1045
00:52:06,708 --> 00:52:07,918
I think she is.
1046
00:52:08,001 --> 00:52:09,836
I think she likes your writing
better than mine.
1047
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,546
That's kind of annoying.
1048
00:52:12,672 --> 00:52:14,090
Just get her on the phone.
1049
00:52:14,174 --> 00:52:15,509
- What?
-Get her on the phone.
1050
00:52:15,717 --> 00:52:17,344
No.
1051
00:52:18,678 --> 00:52:20,514
No. I don't know. She's...
1052
00:52:21,515 --> 00:52:23,642
She's probably sleeping, anyway.
1053
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:27,646
Please?
1054
00:52:29,564 --> 00:52:31,066
- SARAHI Hello?
- Hi.
1055
00:52:31,149 --> 00:52:32,192
How's it going?
1056
00:52:32,275 --> 00:52:34,611
It's, uh, fine... Did l wake you up?
1057
00:52:34,694 --> 00:52:37,197
No. I'm up reading Infinite Jest.
1058
00:52:37,489 --> 00:52:39,616
- Pretty amazing.
- Good. No, good.
1059
00:52:39,699 --> 00:52:42,160
Uh, listen, I'm here with somebody
who wants to talk to you.
1060
00:52:42,244 --> 00:52:43,870
Can you hold on a second?
1061
00:52:44,204 --> 00:52:45,664
- What's her name again?
-it's Sarah.
1062
00:52:45,747 --> 00:52:47,332
- Sarah.
-Yeah.
1063
00:52:48,375 --> 00:52:49,960
Sarah, hi. It's Dave Wallace.
1064
00:52:50,043 --> 00:52:51,294
It's nice to meet you telephonically.
1065
00:52:51,378 --> 00:52:53,839
Oh, it's nice to meet you
telephonically as well.
1066
00:52:53,922 --> 00:52:57,008
- Is David behaving himself?
- You know what? Let me ask him.
1067
00:52:57,843 --> 00:52:59,177
Are you behaving yourself?
1068
00:53:00,095 --> 00:53:01,137
She's asking that?
1069
00:53:03,348 --> 00:53:05,684
- I'm reasonably sure that he is.
-Good.
1070
00:53:05,767 --> 00:53:07,644
- I don't have eyes on him 24/7.
-Sarah.
1071
00:53:07,978 --> 00:53:09,521
Okay.
1072
00:53:09,604 --> 00:53:11,314
- What are you doing tonight?
-Okay, don't ask her that.
1073
00:53:11,398 --> 00:53:14,234
Oh, wow. You're kidding me. Oh, my gosh.
1074
00:53:14,317 --> 00:53:15,944
Yes, it's awesome.
1075
00:53:16,027 --> 00:53:18,113
- What part are you on?
- Page 69.
1076
00:53:18,196 --> 00:53:20,031
- Wow, you're really far along.
-That's good.
1077
00:53:20,115 --> 00:53:21,408
I know. I can't put it down.
1078
00:53:21,491 --> 00:53:23,827
- Oh, thank you.
-Well, thank you. It's...
1079
00:53:24,244 --> 00:53:25,871
I mean, that's very flattering.
1080
00:53:25,954 --> 00:53:27,080
Yeah, well, I mean it.
1081
00:53:27,163 --> 00:53:29,124
- What the fuck was that about?
- What?
1082
00:53:29,207 --> 00:53:30,876
You were on the phone with him
for, like, a half an hour.
1083
00:53:30,959 --> 00:53:32,002
It wasn't a half hour.
1084
00:53:32,085 --> 00:53:34,671
It was. it was 25 minutes, okay? I timed it.
1085
00:53:34,754 --> 00:53:36,464
You were only supposed to say hello.
1086
00:53:53,690 --> 00:53:55,066
David?
1087
00:53:56,109 --> 00:53:58,904
David, we gotta go. Uh, the escort's waiting.
1088
00:54:01,656 --> 00:54:02,866
-Hey.
-Hey.
1089
00:54:02,949 --> 00:54:04,284
Sorry.
1090
00:54:04,367 --> 00:54:07,287
I got totally, like,
sucked into this orgy of crap.
1091
00:54:08,038 --> 00:54:09,497
There's a simultaneous broadcast
1092
00:54:09,581 --> 00:54:12,042
of Falcon Crest, Magnum, P.l.,
and Charlie's Angels.
1093
00:54:12,125 --> 00:54:14,210
- Yeah, okay.
- Perfect stoner shit.
1094
00:54:14,294 --> 00:54:16,171
- I'll be out in a second, okay?
-Okay.
1095
00:54:39,277 --> 00:54:40,403
Call now to order,
1096
00:54:40,487 --> 00:54:43,281
and get this free workout video
with complete instructions
1097
00:54:43,365 --> 00:54:45,325
with 15 Abwork exercises,
1098
00:54:45,659 --> 00:54:47,577
plus my 20-minute aerobic workout.
1099
00:54:47,661 --> 00:54:48,995
That's everything you need.
1100
00:54:50,622 --> 00:54:51,915
- Here, go in.
- Can you go around?
1101
00:54:51,998 --> 00:54:53,500
- Yeah, yeah, sure.
- Thanks.
1102
00:54:56,002 --> 00:54:57,212
DAVID; Well...
1103
00:54:59,297 --> 00:55:01,132
You're wearing that?
1104
00:55:04,010 --> 00:55:06,179
For a radio interview? Uh, yes.
1105
00:55:14,646 --> 00:55:17,315
Hi. Dave. Dave Wallace.
1106
00:55:17,816 --> 00:55:19,859
I know who you are.
1107
00:55:20,235 --> 00:55:22,821
My amanuensis, Mr. Boswell.
1108
00:55:22,904 --> 00:55:24,781
- Mr. Boswell.
-Very clever. Hi.
1109
00:55:24,864 --> 00:55:26,491
Right this way.
1110
00:55:29,869 --> 00:55:32,288
We record digitally. I hope that's okay.
1111
00:55:33,039 --> 00:55:35,208
So just "yes" or "no" answers?
1112
00:55:36,418 --> 00:55:37,460
- That's very funny.
- Yeah.
1113
00:55:37,544 --> 00:55:38,795
- What? What?
-Hey.
1114
00:55:38,878 --> 00:55:40,964
- You do a really mean job at this...
-Yeah?
1115
00:55:41,047 --> 00:55:42,799
- I got, like, 20 years to get you back.
-Right.
1116
00:55:42,882 --> 00:55:44,300
- You remember that.
-You're going to be fine.
1117
00:55:44,384 --> 00:55:46,511
My guest today
is David Foster Wallace,
1118
00:55:46,594 --> 00:55:49,347
who has burst on the literary scene
1119
00:55:49,431 --> 00:55:52,809
with his 1079-page,
1120
00:55:52,892 --> 00:55:55,228
3-pound, 3-ounce novel,
1121
00:55:56,229 --> 00:55:57,647
Infinite Jest.
1122
00:55:58,231 --> 00:55:59,983
Jay McInerney called it,
1123
00:56:00,066 --> 00:56:04,738
"Something like a sleek Vonnegut chassis
wrapped in layers of post-millennial Zola."
1124
00:56:06,072 --> 00:56:08,658
David Foster Wallace, welcome to our show.
1125
00:56:08,742 --> 00:56:10,118
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
1126
00:56:10,201 --> 00:56:14,622
All right. Now, you have said
you saw yourself as, quote,
1127
00:56:14,706 --> 00:56:19,169
"A combination of being incredibly shy
and being an egomaniac, too."
1128
00:56:19,252 --> 00:56:21,755
I believe I said "exhibitionist" also.
1129
00:56:22,255 --> 00:56:23,465
Meaning?
1130
00:56:24,007 --> 00:56:26,468
I think being shy
basically means being self-absorbed
1131
00:56:26,551 --> 00:56:29,387
to the extent that it makes it difficult
to be around other people.
1132
00:56:29,471 --> 00:56:32,307
Difficult for you
or difficult for the other people?
1133
00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:35,435
Ah, I suppose a little bit of both.
1134
00:56:35,518 --> 00:56:37,729
- That was wonderful.
- Oh, yeah?
1135
00:56:37,812 --> 00:56:41,858
I listened to the whole show.
It was so interesting.
1136
00:56:41,941 --> 00:56:44,486
- Thanks.
-I may have to buy your book and read it.
1137
00:56:44,569 --> 00:56:47,030
- Yeah, sorry about that.
- Oh. No!
1138
00:56:47,113 --> 00:56:49,240
- Wasn't he wonderful?
-He was wonderful.
1139
00:56:49,324 --> 00:56:52,577
Oh, my gosh. So, you have
the rest of the day free.
1140
00:56:52,660 --> 00:56:54,621
Where would you like to go?
1141
00:56:56,289 --> 00:56:59,000
Do you know where the Mall of America is?
1142
00:56:59,084 --> 00:57:00,376
- Yes, I do.
- Great.
1143
00:57:00,460 --> 00:57:01,544
- Yes, I do.
- Really?
1144
00:57:01,628 --> 00:57:02,754
Yeah.
1145
00:57:03,296 --> 00:57:04,464
So...
1146
00:57:09,636 --> 00:57:12,680
I think I wanted to write something
that had the sort of texture
1147
00:57:12,764 --> 00:57:14,474
of what American life is like now,
1148
00:57:14,557 --> 00:57:17,102
- this tsunami of stuff just coming at you.
- Right.
1149
00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:19,437
- Also it's not unfun, I don't think.
-No.
1150
00:57:19,521 --> 00:57:20,897
And I don't think so either. No, not at all.
1151
00:57:20,980 --> 00:57:22,565
I mean, although it is, uh...
1152
00:57:22,649 --> 00:57:25,527
It is sort of heavy though, right?
Weight-wise at least.
1153
00:57:25,610 --> 00:57:28,530
My friend said when it hit his porch,
it sounded like a car bomb going off.
1154
00:57:28,613 --> 00:57:30,198
Right. Exactly.
1155
00:57:30,281 --> 00:57:31,699
And who do you think your readers are?
1156
00:57:31,783 --> 00:57:33,493
Are they, uh... Are they college kids?
1157
00:57:34,077 --> 00:57:37,455
The people who seem most enthusiastic
are young men, which I guess I understand.
1158
00:57:37,539 --> 00:57:39,374
- It's a fairly male book.
-Right.
1159
00:57:39,457 --> 00:57:41,626
It's a fairly nerdy book, too,
about loneliness.
1160
00:57:41,709 --> 00:57:42,752
Hmm.
1161
00:57:42,836 --> 00:57:45,463
I guess you can expect that someone
who's willing to read, and read hard,
1162
00:57:45,547 --> 00:57:46,798
like, a 1,000-page book,
1163
00:57:46,881 --> 00:57:48,550
is going to be someone
with some loneliness issues.
1164
00:57:48,633 --> 00:57:50,969
Yeah, right. Mmm.
1165
00:57:52,178 --> 00:57:54,889
So, is that what you think
the book is about, then?
1166
00:57:54,973 --> 00:57:56,850
About loneliness?
1167
00:57:59,853 --> 00:58:03,106
I think that if there's a sort of sadness
for people under 45,
1168
00:58:03,189 --> 00:58:07,735
it has something to do with pleasure
and achievement and entertainment.
1169
00:58:07,819 --> 00:58:10,613
Like a sort of emptiness at the heart
of what they thought was going on,
1170
00:58:10,697 --> 00:58:13,616
and maybe I can hope
that some parts of the book
1171
00:58:13,700 --> 00:58:16,369
-speak to their nerve endings a little bit.
-Mmm-hmm.
1172
00:58:16,703 --> 00:58:18,121
If you quote any of this, by the way,
1173
00:58:18,204 --> 00:58:21,541
you'd do me a great favor by saying
this is what I hope for the book. You know?
1174
00:58:21,624 --> 00:58:23,001
- This is what the book is trying to achieve.
-Yeah.
1175
00:58:23,084 --> 00:58:24,294
I don't pretend that it has.
1176
00:58:24,377 --> 00:58:26,629
That's... That's fine. Um...
1177
00:58:27,422 --> 00:58:29,841
So, the Walter Kirn review
in, uh, New York Magazine,
1178
00:58:29,924 --> 00:58:32,260
-did you...
-I heard about it. I didn't read it.
1179
00:58:32,343 --> 00:58:33,678
You didn't read it?
1180
00:58:33,761 --> 00:58:36,097
"Next year's book awards
have been decided."
1181
00:58:36,181 --> 00:58:37,140
How do you feel about that?
1182
00:58:37,223 --> 00:58:38,474
- How do I feel about it?
- Yeah.
1183
00:58:38,558 --> 00:58:40,476
I applaud his taste and discernment.
1184
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,813
What do you want me to say?
How would you feel about it?
1185
00:58:43,897 --> 00:58:45,523
How would I feel?
1186
00:58:46,399 --> 00:58:49,777
That something that
I had known was really good
1187
00:58:49,861 --> 00:58:52,322
was now being validated by somebody else.
1188
00:58:53,323 --> 00:58:57,869
All I know is this is absolutely the best
I could do between 1992 and 1995.
1189
00:58:57,952 --> 00:59:00,371
If everybody had hated it,
I wouldn't have been thrilled.
1190
00:59:00,455 --> 00:59:03,124
I don't think I would have
been devastated, either.
1191
00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:06,711
When you're used to doing heavy-duty
literary stuff that doesn't sell well,
1192
00:59:06,794 --> 00:59:08,630
being human animals with egos,
1193
00:59:08,713 --> 00:59:11,424
you accommodate that fact
by the following equation.
1194
00:59:11,507 --> 00:59:12,592
If something sells really well
1195
00:59:12,675 --> 00:59:13,801
-and gets a lot of attention...
-Right.
1196
00:59:13,885 --> 00:59:15,720
- ...it's got to be shit, right?
- Right. Of course.
1197
00:59:15,803 --> 00:59:19,557
The ultimate irony is, if your thing
starts selling well, it gets a lot of attention.
1198
00:59:19,641 --> 00:59:21,684
The very mechanism
you use to shore yourself up
1199
00:59:21,768 --> 00:59:23,603
-when your thing didn't sell well...
-it doesn't work anymore.
1200
00:59:23,686 --> 00:59:25,146
- It's now part of the darkness nexus...
-Of course.
1201
00:59:25,230 --> 00:59:27,023
- When it does, so you're totally screwed.
-Mmm.
1202
00:59:27,106 --> 00:59:28,566
You know, you can't win.
1203
00:59:31,319 --> 00:59:32,987
I don't really see
how they could've gotten lost.
1204
00:59:33,071 --> 00:59:34,530
- Right.
-I mean, it's a straight shot.
1205
00:59:34,614 --> 00:59:37,283
Yeah, of course. Right.
Just past the food court.
1206
00:59:37,367 --> 00:59:38,493
Yeah.
1207
00:59:38,576 --> 00:59:39,786
Through the amusement park.
1208
00:59:39,869 --> 00:59:41,788
- Through the first watch store.
- Yeah.
1209
00:59:41,871 --> 00:59:43,873
- Don't go to the aquarium.
- Right. Do not.
1210
00:59:43,957 --> 00:59:46,751
If you see fudge, you've gone too far.
1211
00:59:46,834 --> 00:59:49,295
- Hey. Hello?
-Oh.
1212
00:59:49,712 --> 00:59:50,797
Hey.
1213
00:59:53,383 --> 00:59:54,759
- Hello.
- Hey.
1214
00:59:54,842 --> 00:59:56,052
- It's good to see you.
- Nice to see you.
1215
00:59:56,135 --> 00:59:57,679
Thank you for dragging us here.
1216
00:59:57,762 --> 00:59:58,721
- Yes.
- You'll love it. I know it.
1217
00:59:58,805 --> 00:59:59,806
- Hello, Betsy.
-it's nice to see you.
1218
00:59:59,889 --> 01:00:01,015
- Great. How are you?
-it's good to see you.
1219
01:00:01,474 --> 01:00:03,226
What's The Juror?
1220
01:00:03,309 --> 01:00:05,436
Oh, that's, uh, Demi Moore, John Griffin.
1221
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,021
- Oh, right.
-Yeah.
1222
01:00:07,105 --> 01:00:08,481
- Happy Gilmore?
-No.
1223
01:00:08,564 --> 01:00:10,066
- That's, what?
-No, that's Adam Sandler.
1224
01:00:10,149 --> 01:00:12,360
- Right.
-What about, uh, Broken Arrow?
1225
01:00:12,443 --> 01:00:14,279
It's not a dumb boy movie. Stuff blows up.
1226
01:00:14,362 --> 01:00:15,822
I've actually seen that.
1227
01:00:15,905 --> 01:00:17,240
- You saw that already?
-I did, actually.
1228
01:00:17,323 --> 01:00:18,783
- Wow, a man after my own heart.
-Terrible.
1229
01:00:18,866 --> 01:00:21,119
But I would be happy to see it again
if you want to.
1230
01:00:21,202 --> 01:00:22,912
No, we can really see anything.
1231
01:01:01,743 --> 01:01:02,744
Yes.
1232
01:01:04,787 --> 01:01:06,122
Yes.
1233
01:01:11,377 --> 01:01:12,587
That is fantastic.
1234
01:01:13,421 --> 01:01:14,505
- Horrible.
- Pretty good, huh?
1235
01:01:14,589 --> 01:01:17,300
- You have got to be kidding me.
- That was a waste of two hours.
1236
01:01:17,383 --> 01:01:19,093
And when Travolta got impaled
by the thing.
1237
01:01:19,177 --> 01:01:20,887
- Yeah. You liked that, huh?
-The worst movie I've ever seen.
1238
01:01:20,970 --> 01:01:23,556
- He saved humanity, Betsy.
-No, he did not.
1239
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:25,016
- Have a heart.
-He made it worse.
1240
01:01:25,099 --> 01:01:26,184
- You've changed.
-He made it worse.
1241
01:01:26,267 --> 01:01:27,977
What do we do now?
1242
01:01:28,061 --> 01:01:29,562
- Do you have a TV?
-Uh-huh.
1243
01:01:30,021 --> 01:01:31,147
I do.
1244
01:01:31,606 --> 01:01:32,648
-...treating you?
-Oh, good.
1245
01:01:32,732 --> 01:01:34,859
You know, I mean, and who knows?
Okay, I guess, you know.
1246
01:01:34,942 --> 01:01:38,237
- Hey, I saw that show the other day...
-Jesus Christ.
1247
01:01:38,321 --> 01:01:39,822
I know that guy, actually.
1248
01:01:39,906 --> 01:01:41,407
Wait... Which one?
1249
01:01:41,491 --> 01:01:42,742
- The one playing Letterman.
-Really?
1250
01:01:42,825 --> 01:01:43,993
- You do?
-Yeah.
1251
01:01:44,077 --> 01:01:45,995
- How?
-We went to Amherst together.
1252
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:47,121
- No.
-Yeah.
1253
01:01:47,205 --> 01:01:48,498
Was he a friend of yours?
1254
01:01:48,581 --> 01:01:50,291
I hated his guts so much.
1255
01:01:50,375 --> 01:01:51,667
Of course you did. Right.
1256
01:01:51,751 --> 01:01:53,836
Hey, uh, wait. Does anybody
want drinks or anything?
1257
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:54,921
- I'm fine, thank you.
-No.
1258
01:01:55,004 --> 01:01:56,089
- No? Okay.
-I'm good, thank you.
1259
01:01:56,172 --> 01:01:57,715
But there's also beer in the fridge.
1260
01:01:57,799 --> 01:01:59,842
Soda's fine. Thank you.
1261
01:02:00,593 --> 01:02:02,345
HOW... Why did you hate him?
1262
01:02:02,428 --> 01:02:03,638
It's a pretty simple recipe.
1263
01:02:03,721 --> 01:02:05,681
- He was very cool and popular...
-Mmm-hmm.
1264
01:02:05,765 --> 01:02:06,849
...and I was not.
1265
01:02:06,933 --> 01:02:08,768
That was the basic offense.
1266
01:02:08,851 --> 01:02:09,894
Look at him now.
1267
01:02:11,604 --> 01:02:13,022
Cock of the walk.
1268
01:02:13,106 --> 01:02:14,357
Hey.
1269
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:15,608
- Hey.
-Uh...
1270
01:02:16,150 --> 01:02:17,276
I brought you something.
1271
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:18,986
- Hmm. You brought me something?
-Yeah.
1272
01:02:19,070 --> 01:02:20,196
What is this?
1273
01:02:20,279 --> 01:02:22,198
Oh, my God. This is the, uh...
1274
01:02:22,281 --> 01:02:23,950
This is the review
where you have your poem in it.
1275
01:02:24,033 --> 01:02:25,368
- That's amazing.
-Somewhere in there.
1276
01:02:25,451 --> 01:02:27,245
- Hey.
- Look what's on next.
1277
01:02:27,328 --> 01:02:29,831
Algiers, starring Hedy Lamarr.
Have you seen that?
1278
01:02:29,914 --> 01:02:31,290
That is so nice.
1279
01:02:31,457 --> 01:02:33,126
- Um, no.
-it's one of the greats.
1280
01:02:33,209 --> 01:02:35,503
And Hedy Lamarr is fascinating.
1281
01:02:35,586 --> 01:02:37,713
She invented frequency hopping.
1282
01:02:38,965 --> 01:02:40,299
- No, she didn't.
-Yeah.
1283
01:02:40,383 --> 01:02:42,135
I Will. I definitely Will.
1284
01:02:43,344 --> 01:02:44,470
Hey, I was wondering,
1285
01:02:44,554 --> 01:02:46,639
when I get back to New York,
if I have any questions about
1286
01:02:46,722 --> 01:02:49,600
what Dave was like in grad school
or something, can I... Can I e-mail you?
1287
01:02:49,684 --> 01:02:51,811
Sure. If it's okay with Dave.
1288
01:02:51,894 --> 01:02:53,312
I'm sure it's fine with Dave.
1289
01:02:53,396 --> 01:02:54,981
That's great.
So, can I take your e-mail address, then?
1290
01:02:55,064 --> 01:02:57,233
Sure. Uh... Yeah.
1291
01:02:58,276 --> 01:03:00,194
Oh. That'd be great. Thank you.
1292
01:03:00,278 --> 01:03:03,489
Uh, yeah, you could just write it on your book.
1293
01:03:10,288 --> 01:03:11,706
- Thank you so much.
-Can you read that?
1294
01:03:11,789 --> 01:03:14,959
I can see that it is letters,
but, uh, no, I'll be fine.
1295
01:03:15,042 --> 01:03:16,502
- Thank you so much.
-Sure.
1296
01:03:21,382 --> 01:03:23,176
- So, it says to drink out on the town?
- Yes.
1297
01:03:23,259 --> 01:03:24,760
Okay. Great.
1298
01:03:29,474 --> 01:03:31,434
What are you doing?
1299
01:03:31,517 --> 01:03:32,643
What?
1300
01:03:33,102 --> 01:03:35,188
I saw you hitting on Betsy.
1301
01:03:36,647 --> 01:03:37,857
Hitting on...
1302
01:03:38,816 --> 01:03:40,276
I was... I was talking to her.
1303
01:03:40,359 --> 01:03:42,195
David, I saw you.
1304
01:03:43,571 --> 01:03:46,199
You got her to give you her address, like...
1305
01:03:46,282 --> 01:03:49,494
No, no, no. I got her to give me
her e-mail address,
1306
01:03:49,577 --> 01:03:52,580
in case I had questions about the piece
that I am writing about you.
1307
01:03:52,663 --> 01:03:54,290
- Really? Okay.
-Yeah, really.
1308
01:03:54,373 --> 01:03:56,209
- Well, I'll tell you what, um...
-What?
1309
01:03:56,834 --> 01:03:58,628
I don't want her talking to you.
1310
01:03:58,711 --> 01:04:00,546
- I won't contact her.
- Look...
1311
01:04:00,630 --> 01:04:03,299
I told you that Betsy and I
dated during grad school.
1312
01:04:03,382 --> 01:04:04,842
- The least... Look at me.
-I am.
1313
01:04:04,926 --> 01:04:07,011
The least you could... No, you're not.
1314
01:04:08,221 --> 01:04:10,556
The least you could do
is show me the respect
1315
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,935
of not coming onto her right in front of me.
1316
01:04:14,018 --> 01:04:18,022
Dave, I'm sorry if it looked that way, okay?
That was not my intention.
1317
01:04:18,898 --> 01:04:22,527
And why would I want to get involved
with somebody who lives in Saint Paul?
1318
01:04:23,986 --> 01:04:25,154
I don't know.
1319
01:04:25,238 --> 01:04:28,699
You're already involved with somebody
who lives in Los Angeles.
1320
01:04:30,409 --> 01:04:31,619
Okay.
1321
01:04:32,119 --> 01:04:33,412
Are you okay?
1322
01:04:33,496 --> 01:04:36,040
Yeah, everything is fine, thank you.
1323
01:04:36,123 --> 01:04:37,291
Okay.
1324
01:04:38,501 --> 01:04:40,753
Just stay away from her, okay?
1325
01:04:43,381 --> 01:04:44,882
Be a good guy.
1326
01:04:50,388 --> 01:04:51,722
What'd I miss?
1327
01:04:52,265 --> 01:04:53,432
Everything.
1328
01:04:53,516 --> 01:04:56,561
Everything? That seems like
a gross exaggeration.
1329
01:05:16,581 --> 01:05:19,584
No!No!No!
1330
01:05:20,293 --> 01:05:22,169
NO! No!
1331
01:05:23,462 --> 01:05:25,464
NO! No!
1332
01:05:26,632 --> 01:05:28,759
No, no, no! No, no, no!
1333
01:05:57,622 --> 01:05:58,664
Good night.
1334
01:06:00,416 --> 01:06:01,584
I got it.
1335
01:06:01,667 --> 01:06:03,961
That's all right.
My expense account will cover it.
1336
01:06:04,045 --> 01:06:06,672
Yeah, so will mine. I said I got it.
1337
01:06:09,050 --> 01:06:10,384
Thank you.
1338
01:06:50,675 --> 01:06:52,051
Hey, um...
1339
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:56,097
Good night.
1340
01:07:02,061 --> 01:07:04,021
- Were you flirting?
- Sarah, of course I was not flirting.
1341
01:07:04,105 --> 01:07:05,940
He just... He went completely crazy on me.
1342
01:07:06,023 --> 01:07:08,567
Well, you do that, David, you know?
You're not even aware of it.
1343
01:07:08,651 --> 01:07:11,612
- Sorry, I do... What do I do?
- You're compulsively flirtatious.
1344
01:07:11,696 --> 01:07:13,280
Okay. Well, now you're taking his side.
1345
01:07:13,364 --> 01:07:15,991
- I am not.
- Yes, you are. Listen, I...
1346
01:07:16,909 --> 01:07:19,620
I think...
I think I'm just really tired, okay?
1347
01:07:20,913 --> 01:07:22,623
I gotta go.
1348
01:07:22,707 --> 01:07:24,750
- David?
1349
01:07:25,084 --> 01:07:26,961
David?
1350
01:07:37,346 --> 01:07:39,098
- Good morning!
-Hi.
1351
01:07:39,181 --> 01:07:41,350
And how are we this morning?
1352
01:07:42,309 --> 01:07:43,519
How you doing, sir?
1353
01:07:43,602 --> 01:07:45,563
I think I'll sit up front.
1354
01:07:45,646 --> 01:07:47,606
Oh, okay, let me just, um,
1355
01:07:48,399 --> 01:07:50,234
get my stuff.
1356
01:07:51,277 --> 01:07:52,862
Here you go.
1357
01:09:49,395 --> 01:09:50,813
What?
1358
01:09:51,897 --> 01:09:54,191
You didn't think to write down
where we parked the car?
1359
01:09:54,275 --> 01:09:56,110
No, I didn't, okay?
1360
01:09:56,735 --> 01:09:59,321
Sorry, I fucked up,
all right? I'm a fuck-up.
1361
01:09:59,405 --> 01:10:01,615
Not everybody can be as brilliant as you.
1362
01:10:01,699 --> 01:10:04,910
- What is with you?
-What the fuck is with you?
1363
01:10:18,674 --> 01:10:23,762
I gotta say, there's something basically false
about your approach here.
1364
01:10:25,556 --> 01:10:26,640
What do you mean, "false"?
1365
01:10:26,724 --> 01:10:31,020
Yeah, I think it's, uh...
I think it's part of your whole social strategy.
1366
01:10:31,979 --> 01:10:33,397
In what way?
1367
01:10:34,565 --> 01:10:37,109
You still feel you're smarter
than other people.
1368
01:10:38,027 --> 01:10:39,403
- Oh, really? Really?
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1369
01:10:39,486 --> 01:10:41,822
But you act like you're in
the kids' softball game,
1370
01:10:41,906 --> 01:10:43,198
but holding back his power hitting,
1371
01:10:43,282 --> 01:10:45,534
to try to make it more competitive
for the little ones, you know?
1372
01:10:45,618 --> 01:10:47,036
- When?
-Here.
1373
01:10:47,119 --> 01:10:50,706
Now, the past three days.
It's part of your social strategy.
1374
01:10:52,958 --> 01:10:54,376
You're a tough room, you know that?
1375
01:10:54,460 --> 01:10:56,712
It's so obvious,
the way you hold back your intelligence
1376
01:10:56,795 --> 01:11:00,883
to be with people who are, uh,
younger than you or not as agile as you.
1377
01:11:00,966 --> 01:11:02,801
Yeah, well, that would make me
a real asshole, wouldn't it?
1378
01:11:02,885 --> 01:11:03,969
Well...
1379
01:11:05,220 --> 01:11:07,765
I don't think writers are
smarter than other people.
1380
01:11:07,848 --> 01:11:11,060
I think they may be
more compelling in their stupidity
1381
01:11:11,143 --> 01:11:12,436
or in their confusion.
1382
01:11:12,519 --> 01:11:14,730
But I think one of the real ways
I have gotten smarter
1383
01:11:14,813 --> 01:11:17,232
is I don't think
I'm that much smarter than other people.
1384
01:11:17,316 --> 01:11:18,525
That's right.
1385
01:11:18,609 --> 01:11:21,153
There are ways in which
other people are a lot smarter than me.
1386
01:11:21,236 --> 01:11:23,656
And I gotta tell you...
1387
01:11:23,948 --> 01:11:25,991
-...it makes me feel kind of lonely.
-What?
1388
01:11:26,075 --> 01:11:29,119
There's been certain stuff I've told you
that's been really true.
1389
01:11:29,203 --> 01:11:30,245
I think it's been brave of me.
1390
01:11:30,329 --> 01:11:31,413
No, no, no. Absolutely...
1391
01:11:31,497 --> 01:11:33,457
I've written enough of these pieces,
that to know...
1392
01:11:33,540 --> 01:11:35,876
- You can write this up 100 different ways.
-You're right.
1393
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,088
Ninety of which I'm gonna come across
as a monumental asshole.
1394
01:11:39,171 --> 01:11:41,715
And now it seems to me
like your read on this is,
1395
01:11:41,799 --> 01:11:44,551
"Wow, what an interesting persona
Dave is adopting
1396
01:11:44,635 --> 01:11:45,928
-"for the purposes of this interview."
-No, no, no.
1397
01:11:46,011 --> 01:11:47,012
That's not what I am saying.
1398
01:11:47,096 --> 01:11:49,765
If we had done this by the mail,
if I had access to my library,
1399
01:11:49,848 --> 01:11:52,226
if I could look stuff up...
1400
01:11:52,309 --> 01:11:54,019
My dream for this
would be for you to write it up,
1401
01:11:54,103 --> 01:11:55,604
send it to me
and let me rewrite all my quotes,
1402
01:11:55,688 --> 01:11:57,106
-which, of course, you'll never do.
-Right.
1403
01:11:57,189 --> 01:12:01,944
But if I'm in a room by myself, alone,
and I have time, I can be really smart.
1404
01:12:02,027 --> 01:12:03,988
Yes, I think I'm bright, I think I'm talented.
1405
01:12:04,071 --> 01:12:05,489
I'm not trying to sound
disingenuous to you.
1406
01:12:05,572 --> 01:12:07,282
- Oh. No?
-I am not an idiot.
1407
01:12:07,366 --> 01:12:10,285
Yes, I can talk intelligently
with you about stuff,
1408
01:12:10,369 --> 01:12:12,246
but I can't quite keep up with you.
1409
01:12:12,329 --> 01:12:13,622
Okay, that is such bullshit.
1410
01:12:13,706 --> 01:12:16,458
Oh, believe me, I'm not doing some sort of,
1411
01:12:16,542 --> 01:12:19,878
"Oh, shucks, I'm just in from the country.
I'm not a real writer,
1412
01:12:19,962 --> 01:12:20,963
-"I'm a regular guy" thing.
-Okay, okay.
1413
01:12:21,046 --> 01:12:23,757
- I'm not trying to lay some shit on you.
-Okay, but you did it again, though.
1414
01:12:23,841 --> 01:12:25,342
You flatter me, but you're just patronizing.
1415
01:12:26,218 --> 01:12:29,013
I just think that to look across a room
and to automatically assume
1416
01:12:29,096 --> 01:12:31,015
that somebody is less aware,
1417
01:12:31,098 --> 01:12:35,144
or that their interior life is somehow
less rich and complicated
1418
01:12:35,227 --> 01:12:38,564
and acutely perceived as mine,
makes me not as good a writer.
1419
01:12:38,647 --> 01:12:39,940
- Why?
-Because it means
1420
01:12:40,024 --> 01:12:42,192
I'm gonna be performing
for some faceless audience
1421
01:12:42,276 --> 01:12:44,153
instead of trying to have
a conversation with a person.
1422
01:12:44,236 --> 01:12:45,529
If you think that's faux,
1423
01:12:45,612 --> 01:12:47,823
you know what,
you think whatever you want.
1424
01:12:47,906 --> 01:12:51,535
I got a real serious fear
of being a certain way.
1425
01:12:51,618 --> 01:12:55,330
And as said, I think of real convictions
about why I'm continuing to do this?
1426
01:12:55,414 --> 01:12:58,542
Why it's worthwhile? Why it's not
just an exercise in getting my dick sucked?
1427
01:12:58,625 --> 01:12:59,918
Okay.
1428
01:13:00,002 --> 01:13:01,587
This is such a clever tactic on your part.
1429
01:13:01,670 --> 01:13:02,921
- Tactic? What tactic?
-That's right.
1430
01:13:03,005 --> 01:13:04,798
Get me a little pissed off,
get me a little less guarded,
1431
01:13:04,882 --> 01:13:06,341
I'm gonna reveal more.
1432
01:13:06,425 --> 01:13:08,510
Yes, it's true.
I treasure my regular guy-ness.
1433
01:13:08,594 --> 01:13:09,636
Mmm-hmm.
1434
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,347
I've come to think that
maybe it's my biggest asset as a writer,
1435
01:13:12,431 --> 01:13:14,641
that I'm basically just like everybody else.
1436
01:13:14,725 --> 01:13:15,726
Yeah.
1437
01:13:17,603 --> 01:13:18,562
You know what?
1438
01:13:18,645 --> 01:13:20,189
I'm not doing
any kind of faux thing with you,
1439
01:13:20,272 --> 01:13:21,356
and I'm not gonna say it again.
1440
01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:23,692
Okay, but that faux thing,
what you just said,
1441
01:13:23,776 --> 01:13:25,027
is an example of the faux thing.
1442
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:28,197
You're not willing to risk giving the full you.
1443
01:13:29,782 --> 01:13:31,867
I don't know if you're a very nice man or not.
1444
01:13:33,327 --> 01:13:36,121
It's very clear
you don't believe a word that I've said.
1445
01:13:38,457 --> 01:13:41,293
All your protesting, you know,
"I'm just a regular guy."
1446
01:13:42,795 --> 01:13:44,880
You don't crack open a 1,000-page book
1447
01:13:44,963 --> 01:13:47,174
because you heard
the author is a regular guy.
1448
01:13:47,257 --> 01:13:51,720
You do it because he's brilliant,
because you want him to be brilliant.
1449
01:13:51,804 --> 01:13:54,431
So, who the fuck are you kidding?
1450
01:13:57,267 --> 01:14:00,187
I don't have the brain cells left
to play any kind of faux games with you.
1451
01:14:00,270 --> 01:14:02,356
- So. .. Yeah.
-Mmm. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine.
1452
01:15:02,207 --> 01:15:03,500
What are you thinking?
1453
01:15:05,961 --> 01:15:08,130
- Tour is over.
-Yeah.
1454
01:15:08,213 --> 01:15:09,464
- That just hit you.
- Yeah.
1455
01:15:09,548 --> 01:15:14,553
I'm gonna have to kind of feel all this now
instead of just sleepwalk through it.
1456
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,222
Mmm. What do you mean, "sleepwalking"?
1457
01:15:18,724 --> 01:15:21,643
I sort of unplugged myself
the past three weeks.
1458
01:15:22,227 --> 01:15:24,730
Meeting a whole lot of new people
and having to do stuff,
1459
01:15:24,813 --> 01:15:28,066
you're in this constant
low-level state of anxiety.
1460
01:15:28,150 --> 01:15:31,320
This deep, existential fear you feel
all the way down in your butthole.
1461
01:15:32,279 --> 01:15:34,323
What are you afraid of? I mean...
1462
01:15:34,406 --> 01:15:36,617
What's the worst
that could possibly happen?
1463
01:15:36,700 --> 01:15:38,285
The worst? That I really get to like it.
1464
01:15:38,368 --> 01:15:40,078
That's the worst.
1465
01:15:40,162 --> 01:15:41,914
- The attention?
-Yeah.
1466
01:15:45,209 --> 01:15:47,002
What would be so wrong with that?
1467
01:15:47,419 --> 01:15:49,588
Become one of these hideous, like,
1468
01:15:50,672 --> 01:15:52,382
"Yet another publication party.
1469
01:15:52,466 --> 01:15:56,220
"Hey, there's Dave,
sticking his head in the back of the photo."
1470
01:15:58,639 --> 01:15:59,932
Rather be dead.
1471
01:16:00,933 --> 01:16:02,392
Why?
1472
01:16:02,476 --> 01:16:04,645
I don't wanna be seen that way.
1473
01:16:04,728 --> 01:16:06,521
Why, would you?
1474
01:16:08,523 --> 01:16:12,694
Well, if you're deriving your satisfaction
from talking about your work
1475
01:16:12,778 --> 01:16:14,529
instead of actually writing,
1476
01:16:14,613 --> 01:16:18,033
then, yeah, I mean,
I guess you get a lot less done.
1477
01:16:18,116 --> 01:16:20,994
Exactly. There's nothing more grotesque
than somebody going around saying,
1478
01:16:21,078 --> 01:16:23,622
"I'm a writer. I'm a writer. I'm a writer."
1479
01:16:24,957 --> 01:16:26,875
I don't mind appearing in Rolling Stone.
1480
01:16:26,959 --> 01:16:29,044
I don't want to appear in Rolling Stone
1481
01:16:29,127 --> 01:16:31,922
as somebody
who wants to be in Rolling Stone.
1482
01:16:32,005 --> 01:16:34,716
You'll see me on a game show
in the next couple of years, I swear to God.
1483
01:16:38,262 --> 01:16:40,847
To have written the book
about how seductive image is,
1484
01:16:40,931 --> 01:16:44,559
how easy it is to get seduced
off of any meaningful path
1485
01:16:44,643 --> 01:16:46,395
because of the way our culture is now.
1486
01:16:46,478 --> 01:16:49,106
What if I become
a parody of that very thing?
1487
01:16:51,233 --> 01:16:53,485
You know, tomorrow you drive away,
1488
01:16:53,568 --> 01:16:57,239
and you get on a plane,
and this whole thing is over.
1489
01:16:57,322 --> 01:17:00,158
I go back to knowing, like, 20 people.
1490
01:17:01,159 --> 01:17:03,328
I'm gonna have to decompress
from all this attention,
1491
01:17:03,412 --> 01:17:07,207
because it's like getting heroin
injected into your cortex.
1492
01:17:07,749 --> 01:17:09,626
And where I'm gonna need real balls
1493
01:17:09,710 --> 01:17:14,006
is to sit and go through that
1494
01:17:15,799 --> 01:17:18,844
and try to remind myself
of what the reality is.
1495
01:17:18,927 --> 01:17:20,512
That I'm 34 years old,
1496
01:17:20,595 --> 01:17:23,682
and I'm alone in a room
with a piece of paper.
1497
01:17:43,702 --> 01:17:45,787
Hey, there you are.
1498
01:17:45,871 --> 01:17:48,790
I'll never leave you again. I swear.
1499
01:17:52,878 --> 01:17:54,296
Holy shit, Drone.
1500
01:17:57,007 --> 01:17:58,508
Look what you did.
1501
01:17:58,592 --> 01:18:00,093
Look what you did.
1502
01:18:00,177 --> 01:18:01,887
A little excremental work.
1503
01:18:01,970 --> 01:18:04,306
We certainly won't need this anymore, huh?
1504
01:18:04,389 --> 01:18:06,975
Sorry, it happens to the best of us, boy.
1505
01:18:07,059 --> 01:18:08,185
Never fails.
1506
01:18:08,268 --> 01:18:11,605
Wait to do their thing
until after the dog sitter leaves.
1507
01:18:12,564 --> 01:18:14,649
Make sure your Rolling Stone readers
hear about that.
1508
01:18:14,733 --> 01:18:15,901
Okay.
1509
01:18:26,119 --> 01:18:29,039
Hey, so, I'm leaving tomorrow.
1510
01:18:29,122 --> 01:18:30,415
And, um...
1511
01:18:32,751 --> 01:18:34,544
I gotta ask you about this rumor.
1512
01:18:37,464 --> 01:18:38,673
- Is this the heroin thing?
-Yeah.
1513
01:18:38,757 --> 01:18:41,009
- Is this the heroin thing again?
-Yeah.
1514
01:18:41,093 --> 01:18:44,054
It isn't true.
What is so hard for you to believe?
1515
01:18:44,137 --> 01:18:45,722
The reason it is so hard to believe
1516
01:18:45,806 --> 01:18:48,392
is because there is so much
about drugs and addiction in the book.
1517
01:18:48,475 --> 01:18:50,352
That doesn't mean
that it's autobiographical.
1518
01:18:50,435 --> 01:18:52,354
The book stuff is meant to be a metaphor.
1519
01:18:52,437 --> 01:18:53,647
What is...
1520
01:18:54,356 --> 01:18:56,775
You don't believe
a fucking word that I've said, do you?
1521
01:18:56,858 --> 01:18:57,984
I didn't say that.
1522
01:18:58,568 --> 01:19:01,613
I was not, I never was, a heroin addict.
1523
01:19:01,696 --> 01:19:03,073
Okay.
1524
01:19:03,156 --> 01:19:06,159
The rumor I heard was that
in the late '80s, when you were at Harvard,
1525
01:19:06,243 --> 01:19:08,829
you got involved with drugs,
and you had some kind of breakdown.
1526
01:19:08,912 --> 01:19:10,288
I don't know if...
1527
01:19:10,956 --> 01:19:13,959
I don't know if I had a breakdown.
I got very, very depressed.
1528
01:19:14,042 --> 01:19:15,085
- I told you that.
-Yeah.
1529
01:19:15,168 --> 01:19:17,629
It had nothing to do with drugs.
1530
01:19:17,712 --> 01:19:19,714
I have spent most of my life in libraries.
1531
01:19:19,798 --> 01:19:21,383
I never lived that dangerous kind of life,
1532
01:19:21,466 --> 01:19:23,135
and I would never
stick a needle into my arm.
1533
01:19:23,218 --> 01:19:24,261
Okay, so how do you think that rumor...
1534
01:19:24,344 --> 01:19:26,388
- I have no idea.
-Okay! All right.
1535
01:19:26,471 --> 01:19:27,431
All right, calm down.
1536
01:19:27,514 --> 01:19:29,349
And I'm telling you,
1537
01:19:29,433 --> 01:19:32,227
if you were to structure this
as some sort of, like,
1538
01:19:32,310 --> 01:19:35,814
"And then he spiraled into
terrible addiction" sort of thing,
1539
01:19:35,897 --> 01:19:38,316
-it would be inaccurate.
-Okay.
1540
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,653
It was much more
that I got more and more unhappy.
1541
01:19:41,736 --> 01:19:45,073
The more unhappy I got,
the more I would drink.
1542
01:19:45,157 --> 01:19:48,034
There was no joy in that drinking,
1543
01:19:48,118 --> 01:19:49,870
I used it for anesthesia.
1544
01:19:49,953 --> 01:19:50,954
-Okay?
-Okay.
1545
01:19:51,037 --> 01:19:52,372
Um, what kind of drinker were you?
1546
01:19:52,456 --> 01:19:53,582
Were you a kind of falling-down drinker
1547
01:19:53,665 --> 01:19:54,916
or were you
a waking-up-on-the-curb drinker?
1548
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:56,126
- No, I was not, okay?
-All right.
1549
01:19:56,209 --> 01:19:57,627
All right.
1550
01:19:58,503 --> 01:20:04,301
Part of my reticence about this whole thing
is that it won't make very good copy for you,
1551
01:20:04,384 --> 01:20:06,386
because no, I was not like that at all.
1552
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:08,930
- You did agree to this interview.
-I know that I did.
1553
01:20:09,014 --> 01:20:10,682
All right, I'm not gonna
push much further, sorry.
1554
01:20:10,765 --> 01:20:14,478
I'm also aware that some addictions
are sexier than others.
1555
01:20:14,811 --> 01:20:18,356
My primary addiction my entire life
has been to television.
1556
01:20:18,440 --> 01:20:19,441
I told you that.
1557
01:20:19,524 --> 01:20:24,112
Now, television addiction is
of far less interest to your readers
1558
01:20:24,196 --> 01:20:27,616
than something like heroin,
that confirms the mythos of the writer.
1559
01:20:27,699 --> 01:20:29,075
- Yeah, a myth I do not believe, okay?
-Right.
1560
01:20:29,159 --> 01:20:30,535
No, I know you don't believe that.
1561
01:20:30,619 --> 01:20:32,913
I'm also aware that one of the things
that's swirling around here
1562
01:20:32,996 --> 01:20:34,956
is you wanna have
the best fucking article you can have.
1563
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:37,542
So, you know what? Why don't you
write whatever the fuck you want?
1564
01:20:37,626 --> 01:20:39,044
I am telling you
1565
01:20:39,127 --> 01:20:41,671
that this was not
a Lost Weekend sort of thing.
1566
01:20:41,755 --> 01:20:46,801
Nor was it some lurid, romantic,
"writer is alcoholic" sort of thing.
1567
01:20:46,885 --> 01:20:49,304
What it was, was a 28-year-old person
1568
01:20:49,387 --> 01:20:52,265
who had really exhausted
a couple other ways to live.
1569
01:20:52,349 --> 01:20:55,060
Like, really taken them to their conclusion.
1570
01:20:55,143 --> 01:20:58,939
Which for me, was a pink room
with a drain in the center of the floor,
1571
01:20:59,022 --> 01:21:00,273
which is where they put me for an entire day
1572
01:21:00,357 --> 01:21:03,068
when they thought
that I was gonna kill myself.
1573
01:21:04,236 --> 01:21:05,237
Where I had nothing on,
1574
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:08,782
I've got someone observing me
through a... Through a slot in the wall.
1575
01:21:10,367 --> 01:21:14,120
And when that happens to you,
you become tremendously,
1576
01:21:14,204 --> 01:21:17,457
just unprecedentedly, willing
1577
01:21:17,541 --> 01:21:20,544
to examine some other alternatives
for how to live.
1578
01:22:20,562 --> 01:22:21,896
Hey, you awake?
1579
01:22:23,398 --> 01:22:24,733
Yeah.
1580
01:22:26,359 --> 01:22:28,153
Look, I was just thinking, um...
1581
01:22:31,156 --> 01:22:34,284
It wasn't a chemical imbalance,
and it wasn't drugs and alcohol.
1582
01:22:34,367 --> 01:22:35,785
I think, um,
1583
01:22:37,329 --> 01:22:41,416
it was much more that I had lived
an incredibly American life.
1584
01:22:41,499 --> 01:22:45,503
This idea that if I could
just achieve X and Y and Z,
1585
01:22:45,587 --> 01:22:47,839
that everything would be okay.
1586
01:22:50,008 --> 01:22:51,468
Um...
1587
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:55,263
There's a thing in the book
1588
01:22:55,347 --> 01:22:59,142
about how when somebody
leaps from a burning skyscraper.
1589
01:22:59,225 --> 01:23:01,353
It's not that they're
not afraid of falling anymore,
1590
01:23:01,436 --> 01:23:04,356
it's that the alternative is so awful.
1591
01:23:05,315 --> 01:23:09,194
And so, then you're invited to consider
what could be so awful
1592
01:23:09,277 --> 01:23:13,156
that leaping to your death
would seem like an escape from it.
1593
01:23:15,325 --> 01:23:17,952
And I don't know if you have any experience
with this kind of thing,
1594
01:23:18,036 --> 01:23:20,747
but it's worse than
any kind of physical injury.
1595
01:23:23,041 --> 01:23:26,961
Yeah, maybe in the old days
what was known as a spiritual crisis,
1596
01:23:30,382 --> 01:23:32,967
feeling as though every axiom in your life
turned out to be false,
1597
01:23:33,051 --> 01:23:35,136
and there is actually nothing.
1598
01:23:36,888 --> 01:23:39,057
And that you are nothing.
1599
01:23:39,891 --> 01:23:42,644
And it's all a delusion, and you have...
1600
01:23:42,727 --> 01:23:44,020
You're so much better than everybody
1601
01:23:44,104 --> 01:23:46,398
'cause you can see
that this is just a delusion,
1602
01:23:46,481 --> 01:23:49,567
and you're so much worse
because you can't fucking function.
1603
01:23:53,780 --> 01:23:55,740
It's really horrible.
1604
01:24:01,871 --> 01:24:05,291
I don't think that we ever change. Um...
1605
01:24:08,086 --> 01:24:11,381
I'm sure that I still have
those same parts with me.
1606
01:24:11,798 --> 01:24:13,258
Um...
1607
01:24:17,554 --> 01:24:21,307
I guess I'm trying really hard
to find a way not to let them drive.
1608
01:24:25,186 --> 01:24:26,563
You know?
1609
01:24:35,488 --> 01:24:36,823
Hey, um... Okay.
1610
01:24:38,116 --> 01:24:39,701
Good night.
1611
01:25:13,818 --> 01:25:15,487
Mmm.
1612
01:25:16,654 --> 01:25:17,655
Mmm.
1613
01:25:17,739 --> 01:25:20,116
Hi. Okay, m.
1614
01:25:26,748 --> 01:25:29,542
Hey, okay, good morning. Good morning.
1615
01:25:46,100 --> 01:25:47,685
Morning, man.
1616
01:25:56,528 --> 01:25:57,695
Come on, boys.
1617
01:25:57,779 --> 01:25:59,989
Let's go. Good boys.
1618
01:26:01,199 --> 01:26:03,243
Come on. What are you doing?
1619
01:26:11,292 --> 01:26:12,710
Jeeves!
1620
01:26:13,461 --> 01:26:14,629
Jeeves, come on, boy.
1621
01:26:23,972 --> 01:26:28,226
We get instantaneous production
from the Jeevmeister firm.
1622
01:26:29,519 --> 01:26:31,229
it is so beautiful out here.
1623
01:26:31,729 --> 01:26:33,147
Yeah.
1624
01:26:33,231 --> 01:26:35,733
You should see it in the spring
when the wind blows.
1625
01:26:35,817 --> 01:26:37,360
- You can see ripples.
- Ah.
1626
01:26:37,443 --> 01:26:39,028
It's like water.
1627
01:26:39,112 --> 01:26:42,073
- It's like the ocean, but real green.
- Mmm.
1628
01:26:42,323 --> 01:26:43,658
Really is.
1629
01:26:46,244 --> 01:26:48,162
Kind of calm. Real pretty.
1630
01:26:50,540 --> 01:26:52,000
- Are you hungry?
-Uh...
1631
01:26:52,584 --> 01:26:54,168
Yeah, kind of, but, um...
1632
01:26:55,253 --> 01:26:57,505
God, I don't think I wanna go back.
1633
01:26:58,214 --> 01:27:00,091
Yeah, I know how you feel.
1634
01:27:04,345 --> 01:27:05,847
We should probably get going, though.
1635
01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:07,473
Okay.
1636
01:27:07,557 --> 01:27:10,268
Hey, let me take you
someplace nice this time.
1637
01:27:10,351 --> 01:27:11,769
It'll be on Jann.
1638
01:27:14,606 --> 01:27:16,232
- Thanks for holding the bag, man.
-Of course.
1639
01:27:16,316 --> 01:27:18,610
- I gotta eat something, I'm suddenly starving.
-Mmm.
1640
01:27:21,446 --> 01:27:22,697
Hmm.
1641
01:27:24,157 --> 01:27:25,783
Mmm, you don't like pickles.
1642
01:27:25,867 --> 01:27:26,951
- Oh, come on.
-What?
1643
01:27:27,035 --> 01:27:29,454
What, the whole world needs to know
what my mother's known for years,
1644
01:27:29,537 --> 01:27:31,497
-that I'm a picky eater?
-All right. Okay, I'm putting it away.
1645
01:27:31,581 --> 01:27:33,291
- Thank you.
-All right.
1646
01:27:33,625 --> 01:27:35,168
Hey, can I give him a fry?
1647
01:27:35,251 --> 01:27:36,252
- No.
-Come on.
1648
01:27:36,336 --> 01:27:38,296
- Yeah, yeah, go for it.
-Hey, Jeevmeister!
1649
01:27:38,463 --> 01:27:39,964
Hey!
1650
01:27:40,798 --> 01:27:41,925
- Watch this.
-What?
1651
01:27:42,008 --> 01:27:44,594
Jeeves. Jeeves. Sit.
1652
01:27:45,345 --> 01:27:46,888
Jeeves, sit.
1653
01:27:46,971 --> 01:27:48,264
Sit.
1654
01:27:48,348 --> 01:27:49,390
Sit.
1655
01:27:49,474 --> 01:27:50,850
- Perfect.
-Sit.
1656
01:27:51,142 --> 01:27:53,728
Ah. Drone gets super-obedient
when food is around.
1657
01:27:53,811 --> 01:27:56,064
- Jeeves, he's still kind of a wild man.
-Yeah.
1658
01:27:56,147 --> 01:27:59,567
Do not leave food out around him.
He will go for it.
1659
01:27:59,651 --> 01:28:01,110
Good boy.
1660
01:28:01,653 --> 01:28:03,321
You're such a good...
1661
01:28:03,404 --> 01:28:05,907
You're not gonna make me look like
I'm one of those insane old women
1662
01:28:05,990 --> 01:28:07,408
who talks to their dogs, are you?
1663
01:28:07,492 --> 01:28:09,202
Um... No. Don't worry about it.
1664
01:28:09,285 --> 01:28:11,579
I am worried about it.
My dogs are gonna be offended.
1665
01:28:11,663 --> 01:28:13,831
The dogs are not gonna
read this article.
1666
01:28:14,540 --> 01:28:16,376
- I gotta tell you...
-Mmm.
1667
01:28:16,459 --> 01:28:19,420
...they've never taken to a man
the way they've taken to you.
1668
01:28:19,504 --> 01:28:20,797
- Really?
-Yeah.
1669
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:22,298
- Except me, of course. Yeah.
-Yeah.
1670
01:28:23,549 --> 01:28:24,926
Oh, can you hold this?
1671
01:28:25,009 --> 01:28:26,511
- Yeah, of course.
-Thanks.
1672
01:28:32,892 --> 01:28:33,893
Hello?
1673
01:28:35,353 --> 01:28:37,063
- Hey.
- Do you wanna go?
1674
01:28:38,606 --> 01:28:40,441
Yes, I would like to. Um...
1675
01:28:40,525 --> 01:28:42,568
I can't right now. I've got this guy here.
1676
01:28:42,652 --> 01:28:43,987
What guy?
1677
01:28:44,779 --> 01:28:46,280
You mean the guy from the magazine?
1678
01:28:47,156 --> 01:28:49,158
- Rolling Stone guy, yeah.
-So...
1679
01:28:50,159 --> 01:28:51,744
You know what, can I just meet you there?
1680
01:28:51,828 --> 01:28:52,912
Yeah.
1681
01:28:53,538 --> 01:28:55,373
Okay, great. Yeah, perfect.
1682
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:57,875
- Yeah.
-I'll see you there. Bye.
1683
01:29:02,255 --> 01:29:05,133
Hmm. All right. Well, I should, uh...
I should probably get out of here.
1684
01:29:05,216 --> 01:29:06,259
Let you get on with your life.
1685
01:29:06,342 --> 01:29:07,760
That's... No, it's...
1686
01:29:08,678 --> 01:29:10,972
There's just this dance that I like to go to.
1687
01:29:12,390 --> 01:29:14,058
Sorry, you... You dance?
1688
01:29:14,267 --> 01:29:18,312
Yeah, it's something I've discovered
over the past couple of years I really like.
1689
01:29:18,396 --> 01:29:19,731
Although I'm not that good at it yet.
1690
01:29:19,814 --> 01:29:21,566
Wait, sorry, what kind of dancing?
1691
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:25,486
I tend to do, like, the jerk,
the swim, you know.
1692
01:29:25,570 --> 01:29:27,572
Like, cheesy '70s disco.
1693
01:29:27,655 --> 01:29:28,656
Really?
1694
01:29:28,740 --> 01:29:30,783
Yeah, it's one of the things
about living in Bloomington.
1695
01:29:30,867 --> 01:29:33,327
It's like a time warp,
you're completely hip if you do that.
1696
01:29:33,411 --> 01:29:36,581
Right. Right.
So, where do you go? To a club?
1697
01:29:37,165 --> 01:29:39,208
No, I go to this Baptist church.
1698
01:29:40,084 --> 01:29:41,753
Why... Why do you go there?
1699
01:29:42,420 --> 01:29:43,838
Baptists can dance.
1700
01:29:44,088 --> 01:29:46,591
Ah. Yeah. Well, dancing.
1701
01:29:47,258 --> 01:29:48,551
I will not vogue.
1702
01:29:48,926 --> 01:29:52,055
That is where
I put my foot down. I do not vogue.
1703
01:29:52,138 --> 01:29:53,890
Yeah. It's really cool though.
1704
01:29:53,973 --> 01:29:57,518
Like, a lot of people show up
and they got their dancing shoes on.
1705
01:29:57,602 --> 01:29:59,187
So, it's good. It's nice.
1706
01:29:59,270 --> 01:30:02,106
Everyone, for the most part,
just leaves each other alone.
1707
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:09,280
You know, I thought it might be nice,
before you go, if...
1708
01:30:09,572 --> 01:30:13,242
Uh, maybe we could exchange
address data or something.
1709
01:30:13,326 --> 01:30:14,827
Yeah, absolutely.
1710
01:30:15,411 --> 01:30:17,246
Yeah, I'll get my stuff together.
1711
01:30:17,330 --> 01:30:20,291
Great. I'll start carving
an ice sculpture out of my car.
1712
01:30:20,374 --> 01:30:22,126
It's like Antarctica out there.
1713
01:30:45,358 --> 01:30:49,320
Uh, dog stuff, throw toys, chew toys,
crap stains on carpet.
1714
01:30:50,321 --> 01:30:55,034
Uh, fireplace, American flag,
shark doll and bookcase, Alanis poster.
1715
01:30:55,201 --> 01:30:59,038
Uh, soda cans, lots of them,
there's Pepsi, there's Mountain Dew.
1716
01:30:59,122 --> 01:31:02,083
Um, looks like a frat,
but a kind of bookish frat.
1717
01:31:02,166 --> 01:31:05,253
Uh, there's a Botticelli calendar, uh,
Birth of Venus.
1718
01:31:05,336 --> 01:31:09,257
Uh, wooden chess set,
um, postcard of Updike.
1719
01:31:09,549 --> 01:31:14,178
Um, brain comparison, uh,
male, female, dog, cartoon.
1720
01:31:14,345 --> 01:31:15,555
Uh...
1721
01:31:15,847 --> 01:31:18,307
In the bedroom,
there is a Barney towel used as a curtain.
1722
01:31:18,391 --> 01:31:21,060
There is a tennis ball,
there is a dental floss on top of books.
1723
01:31:21,144 --> 01:31:24,272
There is a photo collage of his family,
the kind kids put in their dorm rooms.
1724
01:31:24,355 --> 01:31:28,109
His sister is kind of pretty,
she looks like a female version of him.
1725
01:31:28,192 --> 01:31:30,278
There is, uh, stuff everywhere.
1726
01:31:30,361 --> 01:31:33,698
Clothes everywhere, sneakers on the floor,
clothes draped over stuff.
1727
01:31:35,950 --> 01:31:37,118
Uh...
1728
01:31:37,201 --> 01:31:40,496
Uh, blue toilet seat cover, looks like a rug.
1729
01:31:40,955 --> 01:31:43,624
Postcards, the Clintons, baboons.
1730
01:31:44,375 --> 01:31:46,878
A Saint Ignatius quote.
1731
01:31:46,961 --> 01:31:49,881
"Lord, teach me to be generous.
Teach me to serve you as you deserve.
1732
01:31:49,964 --> 01:31:53,843
"To give and not to count the cost,
to toil and not to seek for rest,
1733
01:31:53,926 --> 01:31:56,345
"to labor and not to ask for reward,
1734
01:31:57,263 --> 01:31:59,849
"save that of knowing that I do your will."
1735
01:33:27,728 --> 01:33:29,021
Hey.
1736
01:33:29,105 --> 01:33:32,024
I'll tell you what,
riding around in that rental of yours,
1737
01:33:32,108 --> 01:33:33,359
that feeling of gliding...
1738
01:33:33,442 --> 01:33:35,111
This thing doesn't even have
shock absorbers.
1739
01:33:35,194 --> 01:33:36,779
What is it?
1740
01:33:36,862 --> 01:33:38,698
It's just an old Civic.
1741
01:33:38,781 --> 01:33:41,409
I know it doesn't look like much,
but, man, this thing starts.
1742
01:33:41,492 --> 01:33:42,660
It's actually a problem.
1743
01:33:42,743 --> 01:33:44,078
Wow. Why is that a problem?
1744
01:33:44,161 --> 01:33:46,038
I gotta get a new one, but I can’t junk this.
1745
01:33:46,122 --> 01:33:47,123
Why not?
1746
01:33:47,999 --> 01:33:49,166
I'll lose my friend.
1747
01:33:49,792 --> 01:33:51,168
Ah.
1748
01:33:53,754 --> 01:33:55,256
Hey, David, I, uh...
1749
01:33:56,424 --> 01:33:58,259
Wow, just happened to have one
on you, huh?
1750
01:33:58,342 --> 01:33:59,385
Yeah.
1751
01:33:59,468 --> 01:34:02,430
I mean, I... I did debate
whether or not I should do this.
1752
01:34:02,513 --> 01:34:04,056
- Why?
-I don't know.
1753
01:34:04,140 --> 01:34:07,518
Don't you think it's some kind of
kid brother sort of thing to do?
1754
01:34:08,060 --> 01:34:09,353
No.
1755
01:34:09,437 --> 01:34:11,188
Thank you. I look forward to reading this.
1756
01:34:11,272 --> 01:34:13,649
Oh, you're welcome.
I put my, uh...
1757
01:34:13,733 --> 01:34:15,901
Put my address and e-mail on the flyleaf.
1758
01:34:16,736 --> 01:34:18,612
Oh. Okay. Cool.
1759
01:34:18,696 --> 01:34:22,658
I'll, uh... Yeah, I'll read it after I finish
the Heinlein and I'll send you a note.
1760
01:34:22,742 --> 01:34:24,785
That's great. Thanks.
1761
01:34:25,619 --> 01:34:28,372
It'd be interesting
to be inside your head for a while.
1762
01:34:30,374 --> 01:34:31,500
I like your cover.
1763
01:34:31,584 --> 01:34:33,127
Yeah. Yeah, me 1100.
1764
01:34:33,210 --> 01:34:36,213
I actually had them
use the same art for the British edition.
1765
01:34:36,881 --> 01:34:38,966
Come on. You got approval on it.
1766
01:34:44,388 --> 01:34:45,681
It's nice. It's very nice.
1767
01:34:45,765 --> 01:34:49,101
Don't worry about it. It was not such a...
Not such a big success.
1768
01:35:08,162 --> 01:35:11,707
Hey, isn't it at all reassuring
to have a lot of people read you
1769
01:35:11,791 --> 01:35:13,709
and, you know, say that
you're a really strong writer?
1770
01:35:15,753 --> 01:35:18,798
Yeah, it'll be interesting
to talk to you in a few years.
1771
01:35:18,881 --> 01:35:20,549
Why do you say that?
1772
01:35:21,634 --> 01:35:24,595
My experience says that that is not so.
1773
01:35:27,181 --> 01:35:29,141
The more people think you're really great,
1774
01:35:29,225 --> 01:35:31,727
actually, the bigger the fear
of being a fraud is, you know.
1775
01:35:31,811 --> 01:35:35,106
The worst thing about getting
a lot of attention paid to you
1776
01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:37,191
is that you're afraid of bad attention.
1777
01:35:37,274 --> 01:35:39,527
And if bad attention hurts you,
1778
01:35:39,610 --> 01:35:43,239
the caliber of the weapon pointed at you
has gone way up, you know.
1779
01:35:43,322 --> 01:35:45,366
Like, from a .22 to a .45.
1780
01:35:45,449 --> 01:35:46,450
Hmm.
1781
01:35:47,326 --> 01:35:49,537
Look, there are parts of me
that want a lot of attention
1782
01:35:49,620 --> 01:35:52,706
and think I'm really great,
and want other people to see it.
1783
01:35:55,042 --> 01:35:58,087
I think that's one of the ways
you and I are sort of alike, you know.
1784
01:36:00,339 --> 01:36:01,507
All right. Hey.
1785
01:36:01,966 --> 01:36:03,884
All right.
1786
01:36:10,141 --> 01:36:11,642
- Okay.
-David.
1787
01:36:16,230 --> 01:36:18,357
I'm not so sure you wanna be me.
1788
01:36:19,442 --> 01:36:20,651
I don't.
1789
01:36:21,902 --> 01:36:23,446
Give my best to Jann.
1790
01:38:24,692 --> 01:38:26,569
"When I think of this trip,
1791
01:38:27,403 --> 01:38:30,906
"I see David and me
in the front seat of his car.
1792
01:38:30,990 --> 01:38:33,534
"We are both so young.
1793
01:38:33,617 --> 01:38:35,869
"He wants something better than he has.
1794
01:38:35,953 --> 01:38:38,789
"I want precisely what he has already.
1795
01:38:40,124 --> 01:38:43,127
"Neither of us knows
where our lives are going to go.
1796
01:38:44,545 --> 01:38:49,383
"It smells like chewing tobacco,
soda and smoke.
1797
01:38:51,343 --> 01:38:54,471
"And the conversation
is the best one I ever had.
1798
01:38:59,852 --> 01:39:03,606
"David thought books existed
to stop you from feeling lonely.
1799
01:39:04,732 --> 01:39:07,359
"If I could, I'd say to David
1800
01:39:07,443 --> 01:39:10,321
"that living those days with him
reminded me of what life is like,
1801
01:39:10,821 --> 01:39:13,782
"instead of being a relief from it.
1802
01:39:15,618 --> 01:39:18,495
"And I'd tell him
it made me feel much less alone."
1803
01:40:51,588 --> 01:40:53,090
I need to use your bathroom for a second.
1804
01:40:53,173 --> 01:40:55,092
Yeah, I believe it's unoccupied.
1805
01:41:09,273 --> 01:41:11,775
It's me. I'm talking to the tape recorder.
1806
01:41:15,112 --> 01:41:17,990
I got Drone sitting behind me,
just chilling out.
1807
01:41:18,949 --> 01:41:20,033
I'm smoking.
1808
01:41:20,117 --> 01:41:22,578
Having just said I wouldn't smoke,
I'm smoking.
1809
01:41:25,873 --> 01:41:27,791
Just me and your tape recorder.