1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:01:13,549 --> 00:01:17,233 I came to New York to attend NYU to study music business. 4 00:01:17,233 --> 00:01:20,799 Yeah, I was 16 years old, um I- I turned 17 shortly thereafter, 5 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:26,033 but when I arrived in August of 2001, I was 16 years old. 6 00:01:26,033 --> 00:01:31,033 Of course, 9/11 happened just- I believe my second week of classes? 7 00:01:31,033 --> 00:01:34,316 So that colors the memories, um, of that time, 8 00:01:34,316 --> 00:01:36,433 but it was- it was overwhelming in general. 9 00:01:36,433 --> 00:01:38,666 I mean- I was on my own. Um, I- 10 00:01:38,666 --> 00:01:41,599 I went to go see Michael Jackson on September 10th, 11 00:01:41,599 --> 00:01:43,400 and I was starting classes. 12 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,316 I was responsible for getting myself to classes every single day. You know? 13 00:01:48,316 --> 00:01:50,666 It- it was definitely overwhelming, you know? 14 00:01:50,666 --> 00:01:55,349 I came to New York University to study music business, and part of the reason 15 00:01:55,349 --> 00:01:58,200 that I was so interested in music business was because, um, 16 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,066 I'd been such a big fan of Michael Jackson, 17 00:02:00,066 --> 00:02:02,200 not only of his music and his dance and all that, 18 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,000 which is incredible, but also of his business acumen 19 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,716 so I came to NYU knowing so much about publishing, 20 00:02:08,716 --> 00:02:13,266 and royalty rates, and things like that because I had studied all of his business deals. 21 00:02:13,266 --> 00:02:15,466 You know- our first week of classes, 22 00:02:15,466 --> 00:02:18,266 we had this program, um, meeting that we would do 23 00:02:18,266 --> 00:02:20,916 which, um, they were weekly assemblies 24 00:02:20,916 --> 00:02:24,033 where everybody in our major would get together and 25 00:02:24,033 --> 00:02:26,066 discuss things that were happening in the industry, 26 00:02:26,066 --> 00:02:29,316 um, we would have speakers come in from, you know, 27 00:02:29,316 --> 00:02:33,599 various record labels or NARAS, which, you know, 28 00:02:33,599 --> 00:02:37,599 works with the Grammys and- and different songwriters, things like that. 29 00:02:37,599 --> 00:02:39,949 It was a time to come together and 30 00:02:39,949 --> 00:02:43,750 really assess the landscape of the music business and 31 00:02:43,750 --> 00:02:45,716 the very first program meeting, 32 00:02:45,716 --> 00:02:49,866 I was introducing myself to the group, as a whole. 33 00:02:49,866 --> 00:02:53,033 and I don't remember if I was running for some sort of like- 34 00:02:53,033 --> 00:02:55,233 representative position or if I just wanted to 35 00:02:55,233 --> 00:02:57,633 introduce myself for whatever reason? 36 00:02:57,633 --> 00:03:02,433 But, I was wearing a Jackson's Victory Tour T-Shirt, and it was vintage. 37 00:03:02,433 --> 00:03:06,599 I had just bought it in the village, and a young man came up to me 38 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:10,266 and told me that he liked my shirt and, ah… 39 00:03:10,949 --> 00:03:13,233 That young man turned out to be Jordan Chandler. 40 00:04:20,316 --> 00:04:24,833 I have on the phone with me investigative journalist, Charles Thomson, 41 00:04:24,833 --> 00:04:28,949 who is the winner of 6 national awards for his recent, um, 42 00:04:28,949 --> 00:04:33,316 investigative work exposing the Shoebury pedophile ring. 43 00:04:33,316 --> 00:04:37,633 So Charles, you've sat in on a lot of pedophile cases. 44 00:04:37,633 --> 00:04:40,350 What would you say are the main differences 45 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:44,516 between the cases that you've sat in on and the Michael Jackson case? 46 00:04:45,199 --> 00:04:46,516 Of course, the first difference 47 00:04:46,516 --> 00:04:49,199 is that the cases that I've covered were all criminal cases 48 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:53,116 where there was was no real financial incentive to make an allegation, 49 00:04:53,116 --> 00:04:56,000 so the motive of seeking millions of dollars is removed. 50 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,266 And then in the cases where we see convictions that I’ve been sitting in, 51 00:04:59,266 --> 00:05:02,316 you had victims who were credible, who were consistent, 52 00:05:02,316 --> 00:05:05,800 and that's never been the case in the allegations against Michael Jackson. 53 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,399 They've never been consistent. 54 00:05:07,399 --> 00:05:09,399 They've always turned out to be perjurers 55 00:05:09,399 --> 00:05:11,433 and people who were just looking for a payout. 56 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,833 Michael Jackson was one of the most famous people on the planet. 57 00:05:14,833 --> 00:05:19,033 It turns out he was also the target of intensive FBI scrutiny. 58 00:05:19,350 --> 00:05:20,666 I have also read that you have 59 00:05:20,666 --> 00:05:23,666 extensively studied the Michael Jackson FBI files. 60 00:05:23,666 --> 00:05:26,550 What were the findings of the FBI files and 61 00:05:26,550 --> 00:05:29,266 were child porn was ever discovered at Neverland? 62 00:05:29,433 --> 00:05:31,716 No child porn was ever found at Neverland. 63 00:05:31,716 --> 00:05:33,666 And in fact, there was a story that said 64 00:05:33,666 --> 00:05:36,716 child porn had been found around the time of the trial 65 00:05:36,716 --> 00:05:39,233 So the judge and the prosecutor both released 66 00:05:39,233 --> 00:05:41,116 a stipulation publicly which was that: 67 00:05:41,116 --> 00:05:44,433 No child pornography was ever found at Neverland 68 00:05:44,433 --> 00:05:46,833 or at any of Michael Jackson's properties. 69 00:05:46,833 --> 00:05:48,833 So that's not just something that the fans say. 70 00:05:48,833 --> 00:05:51,316 That's the judge in the trial and even the prosecutor 71 00:05:51,316 --> 00:05:53,516 said that there was no child porn. 72 00:05:53,516 --> 00:05:56,916 In terms of what the FBI files tell us, ah, what they tell us 73 00:05:56,916 --> 00:05:59,866 is that for over a decade, the FBI was intermittently 74 00:05:59,866 --> 00:06:02,433 involved in investigating Michael Jackson. 75 00:06:02,433 --> 00:06:05,233 There's no evidence of sustained surveillance or 76 00:06:05,233 --> 00:06:08,000 sustained investigation, only of the authorities 77 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,750 occasionally calling the FBI to assist them 78 00:06:10,750 --> 00:06:13,316 with their own investigations, but nonetheless, 79 00:06:13,316 --> 00:06:17,399 the files tell us that more than 20 different FBI departments 80 00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:20,666 investigated Michael Jackson at one time or another, 81 00:06:20,666 --> 00:06:24,199 and none of them found any evidence of any wrongdoing. 82 00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:26,066 Perhaps the most compelling piece of information 83 00:06:26,066 --> 00:06:27,866 that came out of those files was that 84 00:06:27,866 --> 00:06:31,916 when the prosecutors in the 2003 - '05 Arvizo case 85 00:06:31,916 --> 00:06:34,800 sent away all of the computers that they seized at Neverland 86 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,516 to the FBI for analysis, the FBI was unable to find 87 00:06:38,516 --> 00:06:41,866 anything incriminating on a single one of them. 88 00:06:41,866 --> 00:06:44,550 So the FBI files don't exonerate Michael Jackson, 89 00:06:44,550 --> 00:06:46,466 but they certainly don't incriminate him. 90 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,199 In 2005, there was a study done by ABC 91 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:54,199 with the top psychiatrists in the country and they all concluded that 92 00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:58,800 Michael Jackson’s behavior would be very rare amongst pedophiles. 93 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,066 And there are other psychologists and psychiatrists who echo that belief. 94 00:08:06,416 --> 00:08:08,649 Someone who is always trying to dispute that notion 95 00:08:08,649 --> 00:08:11,216 is a man named Jim Clemente. 96 00:08:11,216 --> 00:08:14,100 Jim Clemente, to this day, believes that Michael Jackson 97 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:17,133 does fit the profile of a pedophile and that Michael Jackson 98 00:08:17,133 --> 00:08:19,133 did have child porn at Neverland. 99 00:08:19,583 --> 00:08:22,183 They found, um, images 100 00:08:22,183 --> 00:08:26,133 and I think they were of a photoshoot with 101 00:08:26,133 --> 00:08:28,850 Michael Jackson's nephew, 102 00:08:28,850 --> 00:08:30,183 Taj. 103 00:08:30,183 --> 00:08:32,333 I think he was still a teenager. 104 00:08:32,333 --> 00:08:36,383 And there's a picture that's on the internet that I 105 00:08:36,383 --> 00:08:39,933 Um, It's a picture of Michael. You see that? 106 00:08:39,933 --> 00:08:42,250 WHAT?! OH MY…. Yes, yes. 107 00:08:42,250 --> 00:08:49,583 - So there are pictures in this series where’s he actually- he’s actually 108 00:08:49,583 --> 00:08:51,933 GRABBING their cloth and trying to RIP it off him, 109 00:08:51,933 --> 00:08:55,299 laughing, and joking, and trying to get him naked. 110 00:08:55,299 --> 00:08:58,649 And he's I mean, he's virtually naked in this picture 111 00:08:58,649 --> 00:09:02,533 - This is his NEPHEW... this FORTY something year old man - Yeah.. 112 00:09:02,533 --> 00:09:06,616 And why is he posing in a picture where Michael's 113 00:09:06,616 --> 00:09:09,700 shirt is open, exposing his chest and 114 00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:11,649 this kid's chest- I mean- 115 00:09:11,649 --> 00:09:15,933 - He's basically naked! - upper body is basically naked, he’s got no underwear on, 116 00:09:15,933 --> 00:09:17,500 right next to Michael Jackson. 117 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:18,983 I mean, it's disgusting. 118 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,850 My name is Taj Jackson. I'm the nephew of Michael Jackson. 119 00:09:33,066 --> 00:09:35,816 "3T! 3T! 3T! 3T! 3T" 120 00:09:35,816 --> 00:09:45,666 I wait for the day when I can say that girl's mine 121 00:09:45,666 --> 00:09:53,016 Cuz I would do anything for you, yes I would. 122 00:09:53,016 --> 00:09:56,783 I'll give you love ... 123 00:09:57,466 --> 00:09:59,299 You know, and I know it's not gonna be put to rest, 124 00:09:59,299 --> 00:10:01,383 but I hope that it's really put to rest 125 00:10:01,383 --> 00:10:03,616 because these pictures have been circulating. 126 00:10:03,616 --> 00:10:06,383 These pictures are annoying that they're circulating. 127 00:10:06,383 --> 00:10:08,983 You know, we sued one of the tabloids because they 128 00:10:08,983 --> 00:10:12,950 said that they were child pornography and we had them retract that, 129 00:10:12,950 --> 00:10:15,583 because that's not what they were. They were for an album. 130 00:10:15,583 --> 00:10:18,016 They were for a single cover, "Why". 131 00:10:18,016 --> 00:10:22,500 I was wandering in the rain... 132 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:24,066 My uncle was doing the music video for 133 00:10:24,066 --> 00:10:28,416 "Stranger in Moscow" at the time and we came down to visit him. 134 00:10:28,416 --> 00:10:31,750 but also, we were “Let's take this opportunity since we're all here, 135 00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:35,383 Let's do the 'Why' photoshoot as well." 136 00:10:35,383 --> 00:10:38,416 There was wardrobe. There was a camera director. There was makeup. 137 00:10:38,416 --> 00:10:41,816 We wanted to do something edgy for our "Why" photoshoot. 138 00:10:41,816 --> 00:10:46,266 We wanted the guys and the girls and we and we thought we were "too cute" 139 00:10:46,266 --> 00:10:50,549 You know a 3T like too "saccharine" and we wanted to have some “edge” 140 00:10:50,549 --> 00:10:52,350 some- you know? Something to us. 141 00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:59,466 It's not like I can't escape what's in my soul. - It's frustrating because this is what they do all the time in this way. 142 00:10:59,466 --> 00:11:03,549 Luckily I was involved in it, you know? This was my younger brother, TJ. 143 00:11:03,549 --> 00:11:07,750 If he was here, he'd be even probably more upset than I am right now. 144 00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:11,549 Like it's implied that TJ was clueless or TJ didn't know what was going on. 145 00:11:11,549 --> 00:11:15,016 TJ was very aware of what was going on. TJ wanted him to go farther! 146 00:11:15,016 --> 00:11:18,066 I was uncomfortable taking off my shirt, and so I did have to take off my shirt. 147 00:11:18,066 --> 00:11:21,149 It was never like he said, "No, you take off your shirt and you do this and that." 148 00:11:21,149 --> 00:11:24,899 It was whatever we wanted to do because we wanted to be edgy. 149 00:11:24,899 --> 00:11:26,983 And it worked because people are talking about it! 150 00:11:26,983 --> 00:11:30,549 Now, unfortunately, they're trying to dirty it, but it was edgy. 151 00:11:30,549 --> 00:11:33,816 He mentioned that you know, Michael's laughing in that- because we were joking! 152 00:11:33,816 --> 00:11:37,266 We, you know, for us, we wanted to do something edgy! 153 00:11:37,266 --> 00:11:39,666 But we always laughed when we were around my uncle 154 00:11:39,666 --> 00:11:42,383 and he laughed when he was around us, and so 155 00:11:42,383 --> 00:11:46,783 that should tell you something: that there was no tension. You're not seeing our faces like 156 00:11:46,783 --> 00:11:50,816 "We don't want to do this" or whatever because we were pushing him to do this. 157 00:11:50,816 --> 00:11:56,216 It really- it makes me feel angry to be honest, um, just because 158 00:11:56,216 --> 00:11:58,750 That photo shoot was a great memory for me 159 00:11:58,750 --> 00:12:02,350 and to hear someone try and dirty it up in that way? 160 00:12:02,350 --> 00:12:05,500 The way they're trying to twist it as if my uncle came and said, 161 00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:09,466 "Hey, I'm just gonna start ripping off clothes." That's farthest from the truth. 162 00:12:09,466 --> 00:12:11,816 There was plenty of people there, you know, 163 00:12:11,816 --> 00:12:14,816 that witnessed everything that would back up 164 00:12:14,816 --> 00:12:18,183 you know- my story or my uncle's story if he was alive. 165 00:12:18,183 --> 00:12:20,383 But at the same time this guy who 166 00:12:20,383 --> 00:12:22,783 basically is just guessing what happened 167 00:12:22,783 --> 00:12:24,383 at the photo shoot by pictures. 168 00:12:24,383 --> 00:12:27,016 What gets me upset is just people- 169 00:12:27,016 --> 00:12:32,583 outside people judging my uncle without knowing the scenario. 170 00:12:32,583 --> 00:12:34,616 One thing I do want to say is you know, 171 00:12:34,616 --> 00:12:37,500 people like that that just, you know, on the outside, 172 00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:39,416 And he's supposed to be a professional? 173 00:12:39,416 --> 00:12:41,950 And you hear him. He sounds giddy, you know? 174 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:45,616 He sounds like someone that is just spiteful and hateful 175 00:12:45,616 --> 00:12:48,100 and it's those kind of people like- 176 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:50,950 they need something in their life. They really do, you know? 177 00:12:50,950 --> 00:12:53,299 Leave our family alone. 178 00:13:20,583 --> 00:13:22,899 You never done things that was missing in your life? 179 00:13:22,899 --> 00:13:26,416 You just go back to do it, and Mike just like to just have great fun 180 00:13:26,416 --> 00:13:28,666 and the stuff he liked to do, adults don't like doing that. 181 00:13:28,666 --> 00:13:30,350 I think he had more fun hanging out with just everyday people 182 00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:33,266 that he didn't even know who they were, you know? 183 00:13:33,266 --> 00:13:35,783 Either they were local people or touristsor whatever 184 00:13:35,783 --> 00:13:37,899 and he didn't even know who they were, you know? 185 00:13:37,899 --> 00:13:39,350 He'd just meet ‘em and talk to ‘em, 186 00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:41,866 get to know a little bit: “Hey you wanna come out to the ranch?" 187 00:13:43,816 --> 00:13:47,983 You were invited to Michael Jackson's Neverland before. 188 00:13:47,983 --> 00:13:51,149 - I mean, it was amazing. I've been there, probably 8 times. 189 00:13:51,149 --> 00:13:52,500 - 8 times? 190 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:56,216 - Yeah! I spent the night. The first time I ever went was actually the time I spent the night. 191 00:13:56,216 --> 00:13:58,416 He walked us through his entire house, um, 192 00:13:58,416 --> 00:14:04,983 his bedroom, his memorabilia room, bathrooms, every- 193 00:14:04,983 --> 00:14:06,666 every place in his house. 194 00:14:06,666 --> 00:14:09,066 We were like, telling him how beautiful it was, 195 00:14:09,066 --> 00:14:12,299 and he was like, "You've never been here before?!" 196 00:14:12,299 --> 00:14:15,266 and my friends and I looked at each other like, 197 00:14:15,266 --> 00:14:17,750 "Nope, we sure haven't, like- 198 00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:19,500 when would we have been here?" 199 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:22,783 You know? So he would invite- if there were fans sitting outside, 200 00:14:22,783 --> 00:14:25,983 he would, like, see us and tell Violet, who was security, 201 00:14:25,983 --> 00:14:29,416 to let us in and he would let us do whatever. 202 00:14:29,416 --> 00:14:31,299 - So that speaks volume to just 203 00:14:31,299 --> 00:14:35,750 how easily he trusts people to like- come into his life, even. 204 00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:37,100 - Yeah, I mean 205 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:41,183 unfortunately, he trusted a lot of people he shouldn't have trusted in his life. 206 00:14:41,183 --> 00:14:43,183 - they go, "oh you slept in the same bedroom as him". 207 00:14:43,183 --> 00:14:46,216 It's like I don't think you understand. Michael Jackson's bedroom is 2 stories, 208 00:14:46,216 --> 00:14:49,500 and it has like- like 3 bathrooms and this and that, 209 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:51,350 so when I slept in his bedroom, yeah 210 00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:53,500 but you have to understand the whole scenario, 211 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:54,866 and the thing is with Michael 212 00:14:54,866 --> 00:14:56,783 is that he's not very good at explaining himself, 213 00:14:56,783 --> 00:14:58,616 and he never really has been. 214 00:14:58,616 --> 00:15:00,500 - Michael Jackson, his bedroom was 2 stories 215 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,983 so when you first walked in, I didn't realize at first it was his bedroom 216 00:15:03,983 --> 00:15:06,983 because his bed wasn't there on the bottom floor. 217 00:15:06,983 --> 00:15:10,899 but it was just, it was kind of- very cluttered with a lot of things. 218 00:15:10,899 --> 00:15:14,666 I like- actually sat on his bed and he was just kind of 219 00:15:14,666 --> 00:15:17,899 just talking about Neverland to us, and 220 00:15:17,899 --> 00:15:19,016 that was surreal. 221 00:15:22,899 --> 00:15:27,816 Michael was going to Miami, so myself and a couple of friends 222 00:15:27,816 --> 00:15:31,750 flew in from Europe to spend some time with him. 223 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:34,666 And before he had to go, 224 00:15:34,666 --> 00:15:41,100 he told us that we could stay and that we can enjoy Neverland as much as we wanted. 225 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:45,149 While the ranch manager took us to the main house, 226 00:15:45,149 --> 00:15:49,616 he told me that Michael had said to give us the Royal Treatment, 227 00:15:49,616 --> 00:15:52,416 And we sure got the Royal Treatment. 228 00:15:52,416 --> 00:15:55,266 When we went up to the main house, 229 00:15:55,266 --> 00:16:00,183 all the staff were lined up on the stairs welcoming us, 230 00:16:00,183 --> 00:16:01,583 and they told us that there- 231 00:16:01,583 --> 00:16:05,549 we could move around as freely as we wanted to. 232 00:16:05,549 --> 00:16:08,183 There were no places that were off-limits. 233 00:16:08,783 --> 00:16:11,100 - And this was 16 years ago, 234 00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,066 so it's been a while, but I just remember like- 235 00:16:13,066 --> 00:16:14,666 being completely in shock the whole time. 236 00:16:14,666 --> 00:16:16,616 Most people are just- 237 00:16:16,616 --> 00:16:20,783 I can't believe that he let us in his house like that. 238 00:16:28,416 --> 00:16:29,350 Several weeks later, 239 00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:31,950 after we'd already come back to classes after 9/11, 240 00:16:31,983 --> 00:16:34,899 I was working as a work-study in the music department. 241 00:16:34,899 --> 00:16:38,049 So, he came in to register for private guitar lessons. 242 00:16:38,049 --> 00:16:41,100 He always carried his guitar with him everywhere he went 243 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:43,733 and um, we had a nice conversation. 244 00:16:43,733 --> 00:16:46,333 He remembered me from our program meeting. 245 00:16:46,333 --> 00:16:49,049 We had a little chat, exchanged pleasantries, 246 00:16:49,049 --> 00:16:50,299 and he gave me his form, 247 00:16:50,299 --> 00:16:53,733 and as I went to register him for these private lessons, 248 00:16:53,733 --> 00:16:57,016 I saw his name for the first time, which was Jordan Chandler. 249 00:16:57,016 --> 00:16:59,649 and I believe he told me his first name, 250 00:16:59,649 --> 00:17:01,783 but I didn't know his last name at that point. 251 00:17:01,783 --> 00:17:05,500 And when I saw Jordan Chandler on a piece of paper, I just- 252 00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:08,450 I couldn't quite place it then either. 253 00:17:08,450 --> 00:17:11,183 Um, it just sounded very very familiar, 254 00:17:11,183 --> 00:17:13,250 and keep in mind, at the time , um, 255 00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:15,583 Jordan Chandler's name wasn't widely known 256 00:17:15,583 --> 00:17:20,216 because in the U.S., you know, alleged crimes of sex abuse, 257 00:17:20,216 --> 00:17:22,650 particularly when they're minors, are very protected. 258 00:17:22,650 --> 00:17:26,783 but I went online, and I 'Asked Jeeves'- dating myself- 259 00:17:26,783 --> 00:17:32,983 and um, I suddenly realized that he was in fact the first accuser from 1993. 260 00:17:39,616 --> 00:17:43,216 So Evan Chandler and June Chandler, originally June Wong, 261 00:17:43,216 --> 00:17:48,099 had a child named Jordan Chandler who turns out to be the first alleged victim. 262 00:17:48,099 --> 00:17:52,299 June Chandler divorced Evan Chandler and married a man named David Schwartz. 263 00:17:52,299 --> 00:17:54,700 Charles, can you tell me about Evan Chandler? 264 00:17:55,216 --> 00:17:57,933 So Evan Chandler was born in New York. 265 00:17:57,933 --> 00:18:02,933 He was actually born Evan Charmatz, but he wanted a career as a screenwriter, 266 00:18:02,933 --> 00:18:06,933 so he moved to California and changed his name from Charmatz to Chandler 267 00:18:06,933 --> 00:18:10,450 because he thought that Charmatz was too Jewish-sounding. 268 00:18:10,450 --> 00:18:15,333 He became a dentist, but he didn't really enjoy it and also was not really very good at it. 269 00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:18,700 He was censured by the regulatory board for shoddy work. 270 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,900 He was also accused at one point of sexually assaulting 271 00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,700 a female patient while he was working on her. 272 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,700 He had a very kind of a brief career as a screenwriter. 273 00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:32,549 He got a screenwriting credit around 1993 on the film, 'Robin Hood: Men in Tights'. 274 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:41,933 We're men, we're men in tights. We roam around the forest looking for fights. 275 00:18:42,299 --> 00:18:45,099 Apparently, he was working on Mel Brooks 276 00:18:45,099 --> 00:18:47,016 when he came up with the 'Men in Tights' idea- 277 00:18:47,016 --> 00:18:49,299 or he said his son came up with the 'Men in Tights' idea- 278 00:18:49,299 --> 00:18:52,500 this is the same 13-year-old boy, and apparently, 279 00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:56,049 maybe Mel was under some kind of ether or anesthetic 280 00:18:56,049 --> 00:18:57,700 but he decided it was a great idea 281 00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,616 and went along with the dentist and they put the movie together. 282 00:19:00,616 --> 00:19:03,700 I would imagine a dentist to the stars would be exposed 283 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,416 to a lot of the glamour in Hollywood. 284 00:19:05,416 --> 00:19:09,650 He can see his successful customers talking on the phone making deals 285 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:12,933 and it looks so easy to someone on the outside, you know? 286 00:19:12,933 --> 00:19:16,183 And he figured he wanted to get a little piece of the pie and get you know? 287 00:19:16,183 --> 00:19:20,299 Stop drilling teeth and maybe become a producer and really make some big bucks. 288 00:19:24,216 --> 00:19:26,133 So Michael Jackson is in Los Angeles 289 00:19:26,133 --> 00:19:28,183 with some of his team and they're driving along 290 00:19:28,183 --> 00:19:32,383 Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills and the car breaks down. 291 00:19:32,383 --> 00:19:36,533 There's a lady in the area who sees Michael Jackson stranded by the side of the road 292 00:19:36,533 --> 00:19:38,783 and calls her husband who works at a business 293 00:19:38,783 --> 00:19:43,133 called Rent-A-Wreck, which is a car rental business. 294 00:19:43,133 --> 00:19:45,616 Rent-A-Wreck is owned by Dave Schwartz. 295 00:19:45,616 --> 00:19:47,983 So Dave Schwartz calls his wife June 296 00:19:47,983 --> 00:19:53,299 because he knows that Jordan Chandler, her son, is a massive Michael Jackson fan. 297 00:19:53,299 --> 00:19:56,583 There was one employee at Rent-A-Wreck who said that when June arrived, 298 00:19:56,583 --> 00:20:00,216 she was kind of forcing Jordie on Michael Jackson, 299 00:20:00,216 --> 00:20:03,016 almost like trying to emotionally blackmail him. 300 00:20:03,016 --> 00:20:06,700 So that's how the numbers got exchanged and they ended up staying in touch. 301 00:20:07,016 --> 00:20:09,500 So, a friendship develops between 302 00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,266 Michael Jackson and the Chandler family, excluding Evan Chandler. 303 00:20:13,266 --> 00:20:17,066 During this period, Michael Jackson would have stay-overs at their house. 304 00:20:17,066 --> 00:20:20,183 They would come over and sleepover at Michael Jackson’s house. 305 00:20:20,183 --> 00:20:22,816 Where is Evan Chandler during this period of time? 306 00:20:22,816 --> 00:20:25,866 Evan Chandler was pretty much an absent father. 307 00:20:25,866 --> 00:20:30,266 He owed almost $70,000 in unpaid child support. 308 00:20:30,266 --> 00:20:34,616 He had been rowing with June about how infrequently he was seeing his son. 309 00:20:34,616 --> 00:20:39,133 She was trying to get Evan to take Jordan more often and he was refusing. 310 00:20:39,133 --> 00:20:41,900 He had his own new family, like June did. 311 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,466 He'd remarried and had kids with another lady, and 312 00:20:44,466 --> 00:20:48,133 they were struggling to get Evan to engage with Jordie. 313 00:20:48,133 --> 00:20:50,466 It was not until he discovered that his son was now 314 00:20:50,466 --> 00:20:53,099 friends with Michael Jackson that he suddenly became 315 00:20:53,099 --> 00:20:54,666 interested in seeing him again. 316 00:20:55,333 --> 00:21:04,416 My recollection was that he was not very interested in Jordie, 317 00:21:04,416 --> 00:21:08,066 prior to the time that Jordie took up with Michael 318 00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:10,983 and as soon as Jordie took up with Michael, 319 00:21:10,983 --> 00:21:14,500 Evan became the most interested parent in the world. 320 00:21:14,783 --> 00:21:17,216 They seemed to be getting on quite well 321 00:21:17,216 --> 00:21:21,099 Evan even at one point asked him to build an extra wing onto the house 322 00:21:21,099 --> 00:21:23,616 so he could come and stay more often 323 00:21:23,616 --> 00:21:25,266 And then when that idea didn't work, 324 00:21:25,266 --> 00:21:27,700 he said, "Well, I've got a better idea. 325 00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:29,816 Why don't you just build me a new house?" 326 00:21:29,816 --> 00:21:31,666 and then that didn't happen either, 327 00:21:31,666 --> 00:21:33,816 June dropped the bombshell that she and Jordie were 328 00:21:33,816 --> 00:21:36,383 thinking of going on tour with Michael, 329 00:21:36,383 --> 00:21:38,866 and then Evan, who previously had been an absent father 330 00:21:38,866 --> 00:21:43,416 and wasn't paying his child support, and wasn't really interested in seeing his son at all, 331 00:21:43,416 --> 00:21:46,216 all of a sudden became enraged about the idea that Jordan 332 00:21:46,216 --> 00:21:48,299 would be out of the country for a few months 333 00:21:48,299 --> 00:21:50,733 and that was when the relationship really took a 334 00:21:50,733 --> 00:21:53,333 dramatic turn towards the negative. 335 00:21:53,333 --> 00:21:57,099 What happened was Evan had begun making strange comments and 336 00:21:57,099 --> 00:21:59,933 threats to June and Dave and Jordan about Michael 337 00:21:59,933 --> 00:22:02,299 that he was going to make allegations. 338 00:22:02,299 --> 00:22:04,666 He was behaving so erratically, 339 00:22:04,666 --> 00:22:07,583 that they feared he was going to do something crazy 340 00:22:07,583 --> 00:22:09,933 So the next time they spoke to him on the phone, 341 00:22:09,933 --> 00:22:11,583 they tape recorded him. 342 00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:17,266 This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief. 343 00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:20,116 He will not believe what is going to happen to him, 344 00:22:20,116 --> 00:22:23,549 beyond- beyond his worst nightmares. 345 00:22:23,549 --> 00:22:25,383 He will not sell one more record. 346 00:22:25,383 --> 00:22:28,866 If I go through with this, I win big time. I will get everything I want. 347 00:22:28,866 --> 00:22:30,716 They will be destroyed forever. 348 00:22:30,716 --> 00:22:33,116 That's a fact, Dave. Michael's career will be over. - and does that help Jordie? 349 00:22:33,116 --> 00:22:35,116 Michael's career will be over. - and does that help Jordie? 350 00:22:35,116 --> 00:22:37,516 and does that help Jordie? - That's irrelevant to me. 351 00:22:37,733 --> 00:22:41,483 He's talking about how he's furious that Michael has stop phoning him 352 00:22:41,483 --> 00:22:43,366 and stopped taking his calls, 353 00:22:43,366 --> 00:22:47,733 and how Michael has stolen his ex-wife and torn the family apart 354 00:22:47,733 --> 00:22:50,849 and how he's plotting his revenge, and he says that, 355 00:22:50,849 --> 00:22:55,766 "Everything is moving in accordance with a plan that's not just mine." 356 00:22:55,766 --> 00:23:00,083 and this phone call occurred BEFORE Jordan Chandler made any allegations 357 00:23:00,083 --> 00:23:02,766 against Michael Jackson, and in this phone call, 358 00:23:02,766 --> 00:23:05,599 Evan Chandler alludes to a "nasty attorney". 359 00:23:05,983 --> 00:23:08,983 This attorney I found, and I interviewed SEVERAL- 360 00:23:08,983 --> 00:23:12,183 and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find. 361 00:23:12,183 --> 00:23:13,583 Once I make that phone call, 362 00:23:13,583 --> 00:23:16,033 this guy's just going to destroy everybody in sight 363 00:23:16,033 --> 00:23:19,866 in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. 364 00:23:19,866 --> 00:23:23,333 And I've given him full authority to do that. 365 00:23:23,333 --> 00:23:27,016 It will be a- a massacre if I don't get what I want. 366 00:23:28,733 --> 00:23:31,833 and that attorney turns out to be Barry Rothman. 367 00:23:35,116 --> 00:23:37,083 My name is Geraldine Hughes. 368 00:23:37,083 --> 00:23:42,316 I was the legal secretary in 1993 for Barry Rothman, 369 00:23:42,316 --> 00:23:47,000 who was the attorney of Evan Chandler, the first accuser 370 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,049 that came against Michael on child molestation. 371 00:23:51,049 --> 00:23:53,166 I was working for him, he hired me. 372 00:23:53,166 --> 00:23:55,450 When I came in for an interview one day, 373 00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:58,849 and he hired me for the job as his legal secretary. 374 00:23:58,849 --> 00:24:01,166 I was the only legal secretary for him. 375 00:24:01,166 --> 00:24:03,500 He was really an entertainment attorney 376 00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:07,166 and he had a history of being a good negotiator 377 00:24:07,166 --> 00:24:09,133 in the entertainment field, though. 378 00:24:09,133 --> 00:24:12,900 Whenever Evan would call Barry Rothman's office, 379 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:16,450 Barry Rothman would tell us to put the call on hold 380 00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:18,166 and he'd walk all the way back to his office, 381 00:24:18,166 --> 00:24:21,500 shut the door, and that's how he took all of Evan's calls. 382 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:23,500 He was the only client he did that for. 383 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:26,966 Anybody else call, if he was at-away from his office, 384 00:24:26,966 --> 00:24:29,566 He'd just pick up the phone and say, "Okay.. woo woo woo" 385 00:24:29,566 --> 00:24:32,299 You know, say what he had to say and then he'd hang up. 386 00:24:32,299 --> 00:24:33,533 But he didn't do that with Evan. 387 00:24:33,533 --> 00:24:35,733 Evan was always behind closed doors. 388 00:24:36,216 --> 00:24:38,533 Evan had already retained a lawyer. 389 00:24:38,533 --> 00:24:42,166 Jordan Chandler was insisting that Michael had never touched him. 390 00:24:42,166 --> 00:24:45,283 Anthony Pellicano, who is Michael's private investigator, 391 00:24:45,283 --> 00:24:48,016 goes around to interview Jordan Chandler and questions him 392 00:24:48,016 --> 00:24:52,083 for about an hour, I believe, and asks him all sorts of questions, 393 00:24:52,083 --> 00:24:54,283 and very direct questions: 394 00:24:54,283 --> 00:24:56,933 "Have you ever seen Michael Jackson naked?", 395 00:24:56,933 --> 00:24:59,283 "Have you ever been naked in a bed with Michael Jackson?" 396 00:24:59,283 --> 00:25:02,966 "Has he ever touched you?", et cetera, et cetera 397 00:25:02,966 --> 00:25:05,533 and Jordan Chandler says "No" to everything. 398 00:25:05,533 --> 00:25:08,333 At the end of the conversation, Jordan Chandler reiterates that 399 00:25:08,333 --> 00:25:10,683 Michael has never done anything wrong to him, 400 00:25:10,683 --> 00:25:13,333 and says that his dad is just trying to get money. 401 00:25:20,483 --> 00:25:22,116 It started out a custody issue. 402 00:25:22,116 --> 00:25:25,349 Evan Chandler wanted the custody of Jordie 403 00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:30,083 because in order to coerce a child into saying something that's not true, 404 00:25:30,083 --> 00:25:31,883 you need time with that child. 405 00:25:32,116 --> 00:25:34,633 Evan Chandler goes to custody court and says, 406 00:25:34,633 --> 00:25:37,200 "I want to have a week of custody with my son," 407 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,516 and June Chandler agrees on the basis 408 00:25:39,516 --> 00:25:41,916 that he'll be returned after 7 days. 409 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:45,099 - And he never gave him back. He kept him. 410 00:25:45,099 --> 00:25:48,733 He never brought him back, and during that time that he had him, 411 00:25:48,733 --> 00:25:53,183 he came into my office and he was behind closed doors with my attorney 412 00:25:53,183 --> 00:25:55,416 the- the- Jordie Chandler was. 413 00:25:55,416 --> 00:25:58,016 I actually opened up the door one day. I was leaving, 414 00:25:58,016 --> 00:26:00,900 and I opened up the door and Jordie was in the back! 415 00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:03,500 And he kind of looked a little startled when- 416 00:26:03,500 --> 00:26:05,416 Because I looked and I saw him and I was like: 417 00:26:05,416 --> 00:26:08,616 Nobody in the office knew that he was even there. 418 00:26:08,616 --> 00:26:11,183 You know, we're like, "How did he even get here?" 419 00:26:11,183 --> 00:26:14,383 and I opened up the door, so I had a few encounters 420 00:26:14,383 --> 00:26:16,783 with Jordie Chandler coming into the office, 421 00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:19,583 and to me, it just looked like a coaching session. 422 00:26:20,416 --> 00:26:22,333 While Jordan was in Evan's custody, 423 00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:26,099 Evan sedated him with a drug called sodium amytal. 424 00:26:26,099 --> 00:26:29,650 He did this supposedly so that he could perform a dental procedure, 425 00:26:29,650 --> 00:26:32,099 But it's a very dubious story that he's telling 426 00:26:32,099 --> 00:26:37,133 because there's no reason to use sodium amytal for a dental procedure. 427 00:26:37,133 --> 00:26:42,333 He gives him this drug, which has a reputation in the 1980s as a truth serum. 428 00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:46,333 The problem is that sodium amytal is not a truth serum. 429 00:26:46,333 --> 00:26:50,933 In just around 1993, the evidence was beginning to emerge that in fact 430 00:26:50,933 --> 00:26:53,733 sodium amytal was the opposite of a truth serum. 431 00:26:53,733 --> 00:26:56,816 It made people highly suggestible. 432 00:26:56,816 --> 00:27:01,650 So, by today, by 2000s, Psychology Today and other journals 433 00:27:01,650 --> 00:27:03,733 were saying that it was completely false 434 00:27:03,733 --> 00:27:06,583 that sodium amytal had a reputation as a truth serum. 435 00:27:07,533 --> 00:27:11,250 - So, I'm just gonna take a step back for everyone. 436 00:27:11,250 --> 00:27:14,816 Evan Chandler makes a phone call to David Schwartz 437 00:27:14,816 --> 00:27:18,816 talking about how he is going to make allegations against Michael Jackson. 438 00:27:18,816 --> 00:27:22,099 Jordan Chandler subsequently denies all allegations. 439 00:27:22,099 --> 00:27:25,983 Evan Chandler then gets custody of Jordan Chandler and never returns him. 440 00:27:25,983 --> 00:27:28,733 It was only supposed to be for a week, 441 00:27:28,733 --> 00:27:31,450 and during this period that Evan Chandler had Jordan Chandler, 442 00:27:31,450 --> 00:27:33,849 there were numerous unethical methods 443 00:27:33,849 --> 00:27:36,416 that we know of being used against Jordan, 444 00:27:36,416 --> 00:27:39,816 notably the use of sodium amytal and the one on one coaching 445 00:27:39,816 --> 00:27:42,816 between Jordan Chandler and Barry Rothman. 446 00:27:42,816 --> 00:27:46,133 So by the end of Jordan's stay, he changes his story. 447 00:27:46,133 --> 00:27:48,333 He went into Evan's custody saying that 448 00:27:48,333 --> 00:27:51,983 he wasn't abused by Michael Jackson to now claiming that, 449 00:27:51,983 --> 00:27:54,650 "Yes, in fact, I had been abused." 450 00:27:54,650 --> 00:27:59,816 So Charles with this new shocking statement by Jordan Chandler, 451 00:27:59,816 --> 00:28:02,500 what are Evan Chandler's next moves? 452 00:28:03,616 --> 00:28:05,650 So after Jordan changes his story, 453 00:28:05,650 --> 00:28:07,533 Evan, instead of going straight to the police- 454 00:28:07,533 --> 00:28:10,250 as you'd expect a parent to do if their child has just said that they've been 455 00:28:10,250 --> 00:28:12,816 that they'd been sexually abused by someone, 456 00:28:12,816 --> 00:28:15,500 goes directly to Michael Jackson and his legal team 457 00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:18,216 and starts demanding $20 million. 458 00:28:18,616 --> 00:28:21,650 - But Evan had a desire to be a filmmaker. 459 00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:24,299 He was trying to get the money so he can make a movie. 460 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:27,049 So when Evan meets Michael to confront him 461 00:28:27,049 --> 00:28:29,416 and demand the money, there were witnesses in the room 462 00:28:29,416 --> 00:28:31,733 who said that he threw his arms around Michael 463 00:28:31,733 --> 00:28:34,216 and greeted him with a hug, like an old friend. 464 00:28:34,466 --> 00:28:39,900 I was seated in our big conference room next to Michael 465 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:44,783 and the father came into the room and saw Michael 466 00:28:44,783 --> 00:28:48,349 and went quickly across the room and hugged him and 467 00:28:48,349 --> 00:28:51,583 said, "Michael, it's been so long since I've seen you." 468 00:28:51,583 --> 00:28:54,666 which was just... flabbergasting! 469 00:28:54,666 --> 00:28:57,700 because here's a- here's a father claiming 470 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,983 that this man had abused his son sexually 471 00:29:00,983 --> 00:29:03,216 and rushes across the room to hug him? 472 00:29:03,216 --> 00:29:04,616 Impossible! 473 00:29:04,833 --> 00:29:08,000 Evan's lawyer gets in touch with Michael Jackson's camp and says, 474 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,216 “$20 million and nobody will ever hear about these allegations." 475 00:29:12,216 --> 00:29:17,533 But Michael Jackson is adamant that he is NOT going to give Evan Chandler $20 million. 476 00:29:17,533 --> 00:29:20,933 The counter offer which comes back from Michael Jackson's camp 477 00:29:20,933 --> 00:29:26,099 is a deal for 3 scripts and they say, "You'll be paid $350,000 per script." 478 00:29:26,816 --> 00:29:29,549 - He said, "I'll contribute that to your film project, 479 00:29:29,549 --> 00:29:32,466 just to give you and your son a chance to bond, 480 00:29:32,466 --> 00:29:35,433 to mend, because at that time, Evan was saying, 481 00:29:35,433 --> 00:29:37,500 "He's stolen my son's affection." 482 00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:39,799 He put that in the paperwork. He said, 483 00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:42,866 "My son is being starstruck by this superstar. 484 00:29:42,866 --> 00:29:45,266 He's stolen my friends affection". 485 00:29:45,266 --> 00:29:46,916 and so Michael just simply said, 486 00:29:46,916 --> 00:29:50,083 "This would be a great opportunity for you and Jordan to reconnect 487 00:29:50,083 --> 00:29:52,500 because you'll be able to write them together." 488 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,000 Rothman comes back and says, "That's nowhere near what we're asking for. 489 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,500 That's less than $2 million, you know? We're not going for that." 490 00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:03,133 Michael's camp then makes another offer which is for a 491 00:30:03,133 --> 00:30:06,783 single script paid at $350,000- 492 00:30:06,783 --> 00:30:09,533 a third of what they'd initially offered. 493 00:30:09,533 --> 00:30:12,383 Barry Rothman is shocked by the low figure. 494 00:30:12,383 --> 00:30:15,183 In response to that, Evan panics and starts trying 495 00:30:15,183 --> 00:30:17,916 to go back to the million dollar deal, and 496 00:30:17,916 --> 00:30:20,016 Anthony Pellicano comes back and says, 497 00:30:20,016 --> 00:30:21,633 "That's never going to happen." 498 00:30:21,633 --> 00:30:26,833 Let me ask you for the last time: he has rejected the deal, period? 499 00:30:26,833 --> 00:30:28,500 For one project? Yes. 500 00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:31,599 OK, so then there is no deal. - Right! 501 00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:33,683 - Remember? I said take it or leave it- - Bingo! Bingo! 502 00:30:33,683 --> 00:30:36,033 - OK. Then we don't have to have a discussion about this again. 503 00:30:36,033 --> 00:30:37,200 - OK - Alright. 504 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,916 - That's where it's at. 505 00:30:38,916 --> 00:30:42,433 - I've already told you that we think this is an extortion attempt from the beginning. 506 00:30:42,433 --> 00:30:45,316 - Well you can say that! - I've already made those statements time and time again. 507 00:30:45,316 --> 00:30:47,233 - You can say that, Anthony. I understand! 508 00:30:47,233 --> 00:30:51,116 but it fell apart because you offered 3 and then recanted on it. 509 00:30:51,883 --> 00:30:54,950 Meanwhile, the custody situation happens between Evan and June. 510 00:30:55,433 --> 00:30:59,683 but what happened was June filed an ex parte motion 511 00:30:59,683 --> 00:31:04,233 An ex parte motion means: show up in court the next day. 512 00:31:04,233 --> 00:31:06,150 She was trying to get him back now, 513 00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:10,599 and so we typed a little declaration, and they went to court. 514 00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:13,316 The went to court on the ex parte, but see, 515 00:31:13,316 --> 00:31:17,716 he had been negotiating with Michael for a whole month 516 00:31:17,716 --> 00:31:20,883 for the $20 million to make the movie. 517 00:31:20,883 --> 00:31:26,349 He goes to court on a hearing for the custody, a family law judge, 518 00:31:26,349 --> 00:31:30,000 he said nothing to that judge about his "suspicion" 519 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,233 or "my child is- I think my child is...", you know being molested. 520 00:31:33,233 --> 00:31:38,283 He didn't say anything. So the judge ordered him to return Jordie back instantly. 521 00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:40,833 And in order to maintain custody, 522 00:31:40,833 --> 00:31:44,116 Evan has to go to the psychiatrist and have Jordie disclose. 523 00:31:44,599 --> 00:31:46,716 - I can promise you 3 days later 524 00:31:46,716 --> 00:31:49,033 is when we got the breaking news, 525 00:31:49,033 --> 00:31:50,549 so he never took him back. 526 00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:56,150 He took him to the doctor that he had already queried about molestation. 527 00:31:56,433 --> 00:31:57,950 He sort of acts out of haste 528 00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:59,950 and goes and triggers the criminal proceedings 529 00:31:59,950 --> 00:32:03,233 as a knee-jerk reaction to the custody situation 530 00:32:03,233 --> 00:32:07,599 and then that means he loses control of the situation and the negotiations cease 531 00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:09,599 because the police are now involved. 532 00:32:29,266 --> 00:32:32,516 This NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw. 533 00:32:33,549 --> 00:32:34,516 Good evening. 534 00:32:34,516 --> 00:32:36,633 Michael Jackson is in Bangkok Thailand tonight, 535 00:32:36,633 --> 00:32:38,750 where he has now postponed 2 concerts, 536 00:32:38,750 --> 00:32:42,033 claiming that he is ill. While back in Los Angeles, 537 00:32:42,033 --> 00:32:43,750 there's a press frenzy over 538 00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:45,599 investigations into child abuse by Jackson. 539 00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:48,549 - ..remains the Children's Services report detailing 540 00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:51,116 the charges by a thirteen-year-old boy. 541 00:32:51,116 --> 00:32:53,200 - CBS News has had access to.. 542 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,400 The media went into a frenzy 543 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,633 because after the Michael Jackson case kicked in, 544 00:32:56,633 --> 00:32:59,599 basically their ratings went through the roof. 545 00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:02,066 It was astronomical the difference that this story made 546 00:33:02,066 --> 00:33:03,466 to the ratings of shows like 547 00:33:03,466 --> 00:33:05,033 "Hard Copy" and "A Current Affair". 548 00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:07,799 - I cannot think of a story that's bigger 549 00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:09,799 I mean, this is the story- if not of the decade, well 550 00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:13,716 certainly of the decade, but probably of the- 551 00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:15,516 One of the great stories of the century! 552 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,866 This was an era with no internet 553 00:33:17,866 --> 00:33:20,666 and no social media, and so there was a real thirst 554 00:33:20,666 --> 00:33:22,716 for knowledge about Michael Jackson because he was 555 00:33:22,716 --> 00:33:25,400 the biggest, most famous person in the world, but 556 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,433 people really knew basically nothing about him. 557 00:33:28,433 --> 00:33:31,266 There was a need to keep the story going every day 558 00:33:31,266 --> 00:33:33,349 They needed new Michael Jackson stories 559 00:33:33,349 --> 00:33:36,233 because that was where the ratings were coming from, 560 00:33:36,233 --> 00:33:39,116 so the impetus was there for journalists to seize on 561 00:33:39,116 --> 00:33:41,233 anything- anything that came up, 562 00:33:41,233 --> 00:33:44,599 anything that looked like a scoop or a scandal, or looked 563 00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:47,516 like it might bag them ratings, they just ran with it. 564 00:33:48,150 --> 00:33:49,233 We will fly stories. 565 00:33:49,233 --> 00:33:53,200 We will take a shred of fact and go with it, like a 566 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,200 great footballer with a ball. We will spin down the field 567 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,266 with that and try and score a goal with it, and 568 00:33:58,266 --> 00:34:01,266 maybe we will, maybe we won't, but we'll take a shred 569 00:34:01,266 --> 00:34:03,316 of evidence and try and try to turn it into a story. 570 00:34:07,266 --> 00:34:09,716 I will say that I am particularly upset 571 00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:12,666 by the handling of this mass matter 572 00:34:12,666 --> 00:34:15,516 by the incredible, terrible mass media 573 00:34:17,966 --> 00:34:19,133 At every opportunity, 574 00:34:19,133 --> 00:34:21,816 the media has dissected and manipulated 575 00:34:21,816 --> 00:34:26,616 these allegations to reach their own conclusions. 576 00:34:26,616 --> 00:34:29,766 I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth 577 00:34:29,766 --> 00:34:31,650 before you label or condemn me. 578 00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:34,416 Don't treat me like a criminal, as I am innocent. 579 00:34:36,133 --> 00:34:37,333 - When you buy a story, 580 00:34:37,333 --> 00:34:38,849 there's always the shadow of doubt that 581 00:34:38,849 --> 00:34:40,500 are they telling you the truth 582 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,216 or are they telling you what you want to hear? 583 00:34:42,416 --> 00:34:43,766 They started waving around 584 00:34:43,766 --> 00:34:44,733 10,000 585 00:34:44,733 --> 00:34:46,050 20,000 586 00:34:46,050 --> 00:34:47,099 50,000 587 00:34:47,099 --> 00:34:50,900 $100,000 to anybody that was prepared to say, 588 00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:52,250 "I have met Michael Jackson 589 00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:54,500 and I've got something bad to say about him". 590 00:34:54,733 --> 00:34:57,133 - Yeah, a friend of mine told National Enquirer that 591 00:34:57,133 --> 00:34:59,650 he knew some family that knew the Jacksons 592 00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:02,216 and he called me on the phone, asked me to come to the hotel. 593 00:35:02,216 --> 00:35:04,300 I said, "I'm here to help Michael," and they said, 594 00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,966 "Oh, no, that ain't what we want with you- 595 00:35:06,966 --> 00:35:09,900 We heard that your boys spent nights at the house. 596 00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:11,416 We want to know if Michael tampered with them, or 597 00:35:11,416 --> 00:35:14,500 just picked them up, or touched them in any kind of way. 598 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,250 If he did we got $200,000 for you". 599 00:35:17,250 --> 00:35:19,533 I said, "huh?"- He said, "So what I'm gonna do- 600 00:35:19,533 --> 00:35:21,766 I'm gonna draw a check up, a contract up. 601 00:35:21,766 --> 00:35:23,533 show you we're fixing to give you $200,000". 602 00:35:24,250 --> 00:35:25,566 - So then you go to Germany, 603 00:35:25,566 --> 00:35:27,533 you get another 20,000. 604 00:35:27,533 --> 00:35:29,050 You go to Italy, another 20,000. 605 00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:30,849 Before you know it, you're up a hundred 606 00:35:30,849 --> 00:35:33,166 a hundred, two hundred thousand dollars, and 607 00:35:33,166 --> 00:35:36,099 that is enough for a family to come forward and talk. 608 00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:37,650 It happened repeatedly 609 00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:40,533 where people of dubious character were treated as 610 00:35:40,533 --> 00:35:44,016 credible sources when anybody with just an iota of 611 00:35:44,016 --> 00:35:46,816 investigative savvy would know that these are not 612 00:35:46,816 --> 00:35:49,650 people you want to be staking your reputation on. 613 00:35:49,650 --> 00:35:51,766 They were people who changed their stories 614 00:35:51,766 --> 00:35:53,699 depending on how much money you offered them. 615 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,500 The first time I heard the story about, um, Jackson, 616 00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,016 his hand was outside the kid's pants. 617 00:36:01,016 --> 00:36:03,016 They were asking 100 grand. 618 00:36:03,016 --> 00:36:05,849 As soon as their price went up to 500 grand, 619 00:36:05,849 --> 00:36:09,250 the hand went inside the pants, so, come on. 620 00:36:15,533 --> 00:36:18,216 But basically, LaToya you're drawing your own conclusion 621 00:36:18,216 --> 00:36:21,933 that Michael abused young men, young boys 622 00:36:21,933 --> 00:36:23,816 - No, I'm not drawing my own conclusion that 623 00:36:23,816 --> 00:36:25,816 he abused young boys. That's totally- 624 00:36:25,816 --> 00:36:28,250 That's totally wrong. I am not drawing my own conclusion. 625 00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:30,016 LaToya Jackson at the time 626 00:36:30,016 --> 00:36:31,733 was married to a man called Jack Gordon 627 00:36:31,733 --> 00:36:34,616 who was involved with Genovese Mafia. 628 00:36:34,616 --> 00:36:36,366 He was a very disturbed character. 629 00:36:36,366 --> 00:36:38,699 He was very violent and abusive. 630 00:36:38,699 --> 00:36:40,666 He pimped LaToya out like a prostitute. 631 00:36:40,666 --> 00:36:45,133 He forced her to do semi pornographic magazine shoots- that kind of thing. 632 00:36:45,133 --> 00:36:48,900 and if she disagreed with him or refused to do anything that he told her to, 633 00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,666 then he would either beat her 634 00:36:50,666 --> 00:36:53,783 or he threaten to have members of her family killed. 635 00:36:54,183 --> 00:36:59,466 - This went on for many, many, many years. - He literally said I'm gonna kill you, your brother, 636 00:36:59,466 --> 00:37:00,783 - Everybody? - Yes. 637 00:37:00,783 --> 00:37:04,066 No, not everybody, just myself, Michael and Janet. 638 00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:05,666 This is not some excuse which 639 00:37:05,666 --> 00:37:07,616 has been dreamed up subsequently, 640 00:37:07,616 --> 00:37:09,466 this was known and reported at the time. 641 00:37:10,266 --> 00:37:11,383 - He grabbed a bedspread, 642 00:37:11,383 --> 00:37:14,333 he put it over her head, started to strangle her with it. 643 00:37:14,333 --> 00:37:16,616 At the same time, he grabbed her arm 644 00:37:16,616 --> 00:37:19,866 and started to twist it so badly that she felt like it was gonna come out. 645 00:37:20,383 --> 00:37:22,416 And so all of a sudden, LaToya, 646 00:37:22,416 --> 00:37:25,383 who'd been previously speaking out in favor of Michael 647 00:37:25,383 --> 00:37:27,900 suddenly u-turned started selling interviews 648 00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:30,983 claiming that her brother in fact was guilty. 649 00:37:30,983 --> 00:37:35,300 In early 1994, LaToya appeared on an Australian TV show 650 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:39,816 and the host of the show realized that there was something wrong with the situation. 651 00:37:39,816 --> 00:37:42,466 He realized that all of the answers LaToya was giving 652 00:37:42,466 --> 00:37:45,099 were being fed to her by somebody else who he 653 00:37:45,099 --> 00:37:48,416 identified on the show as her husband, Jack Gordon. 654 00:37:49,266 --> 00:37:50,533 Well, Miss Jackson carried on with 655 00:37:50,533 --> 00:37:52,616 that nonsense for about another 25 minutes, 656 00:37:52,616 --> 00:37:55,300 all the time being prompted by someone in the studio, 657 00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:57,583 but off-camera, presumably her husband manager 658 00:37:57,583 --> 00:37:58,300 Jack Gordon. 659 00:37:58,583 --> 00:38:00,416 - People like you will let this go on 660 00:38:00,416 --> 00:38:01,300 and it's very very wrong. - Who's talking to you in the background? 661 00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:02,333 - Who's talking to you in the background? 662 00:38:02,333 --> 00:38:04,616 - So I... I... I refuse to sit here and listen to you - Who's... 663 00:38:04,616 --> 00:38:08,500 and listen to you talk this way. I think it's wrong of you. Who's talking to you in the background? 664 00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:10,416 - So I have nothing else to save you whatsoever. 665 00:38:10,933 --> 00:38:13,016 And when he questioned her about it on the air, 666 00:38:13,016 --> 00:38:15,383 she just looked like a deer in the headlights 667 00:38:15,383 --> 00:38:17,300 and suddenly stood up and stormed off the show 668 00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:18,699 and wouldn't answer any more questions. 669 00:38:18,983 --> 00:38:20,699 I can't hear you but I definitely want you to hear 670 00:38:20,699 --> 00:38:22,933 what I'm saying, because you do have a serious 671 00:38:22,933 --> 00:38:24,616 problem, sir. Whatever it is, I don't know, 672 00:38:24,616 --> 00:38:26,900 but you do need to go see a psychiatrist. Goodbye. 673 00:38:27,266 --> 00:38:29,866 Her husband decided that 674 00:38:29,866 --> 00:38:32,866 there was a lot of money to be made from 675 00:38:32,866 --> 00:38:35,300 switching sides and saying that Michael was guilty 676 00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:36,500 and indeed, there was. 677 00:38:37,383 --> 00:38:38,816 I'm sorry, are you feeling OK? 678 00:38:38,816 --> 00:38:41,066 Are you alright? Are you alright? 679 00:38:41,066 --> 00:38:43,066 Do you need a handkerchief or something like that? 680 00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:46,616 - After the allegation hit, they- 681 00:38:46,616 --> 00:38:49,566 prior to that, they were on opposite ends 682 00:38:49,566 --> 00:38:52,633 because June never did agree with the allegation 683 00:38:52,633 --> 00:38:54,699 But after the allegation hit, 684 00:38:54,699 --> 00:38:56,216 they were meeting in my attorney 685 00:38:56,216 --> 00:39:00,099 David Schwartz, June Chandler, Evan Chandler, 686 00:39:00,099 --> 00:39:01,233 and my attorney. 687 00:39:01,233 --> 00:39:03,349 They were all meeting behind closed doors 688 00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:05,250 in my attorney's office. 689 00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:08,800 - I decided to drop the case ‘cause 690 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,116 I, at that time, as an attorney 691 00:39:12,116 --> 00:39:17,650 did not like to be involved in cases that I didn't believe in. 692 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,483 And I heard Evan blurt out, he said, 693 00:39:21,483 --> 00:39:25,150 'It's my ass that's in danger of going to prison right here!' 694 00:39:25,150 --> 00:39:26,483 Inside the law office, 695 00:39:26,483 --> 00:39:28,683 the only thing they were asking for was money. 696 00:39:28,683 --> 00:39:30,083 "Where's his money? How much?" 697 00:39:30,083 --> 00:39:32,150 They were sending discovery in 698 00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:35,033 and the discovery was only trying to find his money. 699 00:39:35,033 --> 00:39:36,483 That was crazy too. I'm like, 700 00:39:36,483 --> 00:39:38,433 "Y'all just looking for money? 701 00:39:38,433 --> 00:39:40,550 You're not looking for justice? 702 00:39:40,550 --> 00:39:42,199 You're only looking for money?" 703 00:39:50,433 --> 00:39:52,433 I mean, my mind EXPLODED 704 00:39:52,433 --> 00:39:54,400 when I- I found out who he was and I- 705 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,316 I definitely told some people who were close to me 706 00:39:57,316 --> 00:40:01,633 I didn't confront him though, because at that point in time, you know- 707 00:40:01,633 --> 00:40:03,400 I knew that I believed Michael was innocent, 708 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,116 but the fact that matter is I didn't know 100% 709 00:40:06,116 --> 00:40:09,033 and if there was even like- one shred of doubt, 710 00:40:09,033 --> 00:40:13,550 I didn't want to risk re-traumatizing somebody who was potentially a victim. 711 00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:17,033 And remember, at that point in time, Jordan Chandler was the only accuser 712 00:40:17,033 --> 00:40:19,199 and the media certainly wasn't focused on it. 713 00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:23,116 They were more focused on you know, Michael Jackson's new album release 714 00:40:23,116 --> 00:40:26,833 and um, you know, it wasn't all flattering but you know, 715 00:40:26,833 --> 00:40:29,433 it seemed like this- this was, you know, water under the bridge 716 00:40:29,433 --> 00:40:31,750 and something that didn't need to be addressed. 717 00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:33,949 He was a nice guy, I mean, I'm gonna be honest. 718 00:40:33,949 --> 00:40:36,800 He was he was very nice, always very polite. 719 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,883 He would always carry a guitar around with him. 720 00:40:38,883 --> 00:40:40,599 He made his own music. 721 00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:44,516 He would describe it as "Pop/R&B like Michael Jackson". 722 00:40:44,516 --> 00:40:47,550 I remember that because he said it many times, very clearly. 723 00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:50,316 He would wear fedoras. Um.. 724 00:40:50,316 --> 00:40:52,116 Yeah, that was- that was Jordan. 725 00:40:59,233 --> 00:41:02,199 What were your determinations when you examined him? 726 00:41:02,199 --> 00:41:05,000 - He seemed to essentially be a healthy guy. 727 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,400 The lupus is an autoimmune disease and he only had skin involvement, 728 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,083 which had destroyed part of the skin of his nose and 729 00:41:12,083 --> 00:41:18,116 his nasal surgeries and all were really reconstructive to try and look normal. 730 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,083 - Lupus is an autoimmune disease, as you've said, 731 00:41:21,083 --> 00:41:23,233 where the immune system, one of our larger systems 732 00:41:23,233 --> 00:41:26,516 that's designed to protect us against germs and viruses, 733 00:41:26,516 --> 00:41:30,716 actually attacks our own body's cells and tissues. 734 00:41:30,716 --> 00:41:35,000 Many patients with lupus have vitiligo, but he had a form of skin lupus 735 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,716 called discoid lupus which affects about 40% of the patients with lupus, 736 00:41:39,716 --> 00:41:41,400 and you do get depigmentation. 737 00:41:45,116 --> 00:41:48,633 Michael Jackson suffered from a skin disease called vitiligo. 738 00:41:48,633 --> 00:41:52,349 He was accused throughout his career for decades by the media 739 00:41:52,349 --> 00:41:55,349 of deliberately bleaching his skin from brown to white 740 00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:57,883 because they said that he hated his race. 741 00:41:58,316 --> 00:42:00,599 - Is your skin lighter because you don't like being black? 742 00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:04,283 He insisted throughout his life that he in fact suffered from vitiligo. 743 00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:09,199 - I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin. 744 00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:10,599 It's something that I cannot help. 745 00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:12,349 and then when he passed away, 746 00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:17,400 his autopsy report confirmed that he did indeed suffer from vitiligo. 747 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,750 Vitiligo is a disease which attacks the pigment in the skin 748 00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:24,550 and what it does is it turns your skin a very pale white color- 749 00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:29,199 almost translucent, and it makes it very sensitive to the sun. 750 00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:31,550 So it's a very debilitating condition. 751 00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:33,800 - One thing you say to lupus patients: 752 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,316 Don't let the sun hit your skin. 753 00:42:35,316 --> 00:42:37,750 - That's right, ultraviolet light. - So that umbrella, which he'd 754 00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:40,000 carry out in the sun may have been just that? - That's exactly correct. 755 00:42:41,716 --> 00:42:44,599 So what it does is it doesn't you know, 756 00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,683 turn you from brown to white all in one go, of course. 757 00:42:47,683 --> 00:42:50,116 It happens in tiny increments 758 00:42:50,116 --> 00:42:52,550 and it happens at different speeds all over your body 759 00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:55,316 so it can leave you looking almost like a 760 00:42:55,316 --> 00:42:57,050 paint splatter or blood splatter. 761 00:42:57,050 --> 00:42:58,683 It's very random. 762 00:43:01,883 --> 00:43:05,483 It's very interesting. It affects the neck, the face, 763 00:43:05,483 --> 00:43:08,366 the- the upper part of the wrists, and the groin. 764 00:43:08,916 --> 00:43:10,766 So the allegation by Evan Chandler 765 00:43:10,766 --> 00:43:13,966 was that his son could accurately describe discoloration 766 00:43:13,966 --> 00:43:18,766 on Michael Jackson's genitals which had been caused by vitiligo. 767 00:43:18,766 --> 00:43:21,316 They seek and obtain a warrant which allows them to 768 00:43:21,316 --> 00:43:25,283 force Michael Jackson to submit to a naked photoshoot by the police. 769 00:43:26,183 --> 00:43:28,016 - I have been forced to submit 770 00:43:28,016 --> 00:43:31,966 to a dehumanizing and humiliating examination 771 00:43:31,966 --> 00:43:34,933 by the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department and the 772 00:43:34,933 --> 00:43:37,566 Los Angeles Police Department earlier this week. 773 00:43:37,566 --> 00:43:42,599 They served a search warrant on me which allowed them to view and photograph my body, 774 00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:47,750 including my penis, my buttocks, my lower torso, thighs, 775 00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:51,266 and any other error that they wanted. 776 00:43:51,266 --> 00:43:53,550 They were supposedly looking for any discoloration: 777 00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:57,599 spotting, blotches, or other evidence of a skin color disorder, 778 00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:01,633 called 'vitiligo', which I have previously spoken about. 779 00:44:01,633 --> 00:44:05,516 The warrant also directed me to cooperate in any examination 780 00:44:05,516 --> 00:44:09,650 of my body by their physician to determine the condition of my skin 781 00:44:09,650 --> 00:44:13,916 including whether I have vitiligo or any other skin disorder. 782 00:44:13,916 --> 00:44:18,766 The warrant further stated that I had no right to refuse the examination or photographs, 783 00:44:18,766 --> 00:44:23,233 and if I failed to cooperate with them, they would introduce that refusal 784 00:44:23,233 --> 00:44:27,233 at any trial as an indication of my guilt. 785 00:44:27,233 --> 00:44:30,083 It was the most humiliating ordeal of my life- 786 00:44:31,883 --> 00:44:34,916 One that no person should ever have to suffer, 787 00:44:34,916 --> 00:44:38,283 and even after experiencing the indignity- 788 00:44:38,283 --> 00:44:40,316 of this search, 789 00:44:40,316 --> 00:44:43,283 the parties involved were still not satisfied, 790 00:44:43,283 --> 00:44:46,116 and wanted to take even more pictures. 791 00:44:46,116 --> 00:44:48,116 It was a nightmare, 792 00:44:48,116 --> 00:44:50,433 a horrifying nightmare, but if this is what 793 00:44:50,433 --> 00:44:53,683 I have to endure to prove my innocence, 794 00:44:53,683 --> 00:44:56,083 my complete innocence, 795 00:44:56,083 --> 00:44:56,966 so be it. 796 00:44:57,266 --> 00:44:59,633 There's a book by Evan Chandler's brother, Ray, 797 00:44:59,633 --> 00:45:03,666 where he quotes Evan as having a discussion with his lawyer, Larry Feldman 798 00:45:03,666 --> 00:45:06,800 And they're talking about the vitiligo situation. 799 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,550 The DA's office has told the Chandler's that Michael has 800 00:45:09,550 --> 00:45:13,033 a skin condition called vitiligo and that the skin condition 801 00:45:13,033 --> 00:45:15,550 can constantly change the way that your body looks 802 00:45:15,550 --> 00:45:18,633 because it's constantly attacking the pigment, and so, 803 00:45:18,633 --> 00:45:20,866 the District Attorney has told the Chandler's that this is 804 00:45:20,866 --> 00:45:23,949 great for them because if Jordan Chandler's description 805 00:45:23,949 --> 00:45:25,833 matches, then it matches! 806 00:45:25,833 --> 00:45:28,000 But if it doesn't match, then they can just say, 807 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,466 "Oh, well, that's because of the vitiligo". 808 00:45:30,466 --> 00:45:33,750 So Larry Feldman says, "Either way, we win!" 809 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,716 - So after they searched Michael Jackson's body, 810 00:45:38,716 --> 00:45:41,866 No arrest warrant was issued. Charles, 811 00:45:41,866 --> 00:45:45,266 what were the initial reports about this body search? 812 00:45:46,316 --> 00:45:49,633 In early 1994, law enforcement sources told 813 00:45:49,633 --> 00:45:54,066 2 different media outlets: Reuters and USA Today 814 00:45:54,066 --> 00:45:55,066 that there was no match. 815 00:45:55,699 --> 00:45:58,783 Jordan Chandler's drawing of Michael Jackson's genitalia 816 00:45:58,783 --> 00:46:02,466 have since been leaked, and when you really look at it 817 00:46:02,466 --> 00:46:06,666 with words such as "my theory" and "be selective", 818 00:46:06,666 --> 00:46:10,183 it's questionable whether these are truly Jordan's own descriptions 819 00:46:10,183 --> 00:46:12,550 or instructions from someone else. 820 00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:14,466 It's also important to note that Evan Chandler has 821 00:46:14,466 --> 00:46:17,550 admittingly given Michael Jackson painkillers through 822 00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:21,833 injections to his buttocks. So at the very least, 823 00:46:21,833 --> 00:46:25,349 Evan saw Jackson's gluteus and that he had discoloration 824 00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:26,833 on his lower body region. 825 00:46:29,666 --> 00:46:31,349 The Smoking Gun obtains a document 826 00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:34,533 which is called, they say, "The Linden Affidavit". 827 00:46:34,533 --> 00:46:36,849 It's written by a Detective Linden who works for the 828 00:46:36,849 --> 00:46:39,933 authorities that are investigating the Jordan Chandler case. 829 00:46:39,933 --> 00:46:43,133 And she has taken from Jordan Chandler a description 830 00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:45,800 of Michael Jackson's genitals, and 831 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,199 Jordan Chandler tells Linden that Michael Jackson is circumcised. 832 00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,283 When they conduct the body search, 833 00:46:52,283 --> 00:46:55,283 it turns out Michael Jackson is in fact not circumcised, 834 00:46:55,283 --> 00:46:58,199 meaning his description has not matched. 835 00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:08,283 What had happened was that Barry Rothman 836 00:47:08,283 --> 00:47:11,599 was being sued by Michael Jackson for extortion, 837 00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:14,166 and so he quit representing the Chandler's. 838 00:47:14,166 --> 00:47:17,650 The Chandler's then proceeded to hire Gloria Allred, 839 00:47:17,650 --> 00:47:19,716 who held a press conference claiming that the 840 00:47:19,716 --> 00:47:22,283 Chandler's were ready for a criminal case. 841 00:47:22,283 --> 00:47:25,083 - to make a charge against a celebrity... 842 00:47:25,083 --> 00:47:28,216 Gloria Allred is shortly fired and Barry Rothman, 843 00:47:28,216 --> 00:47:30,766 who's now working in the background, suggests 844 00:47:30,766 --> 00:47:34,449 Larry Feldman as a replacement, an attorney who is 845 00:47:34,449 --> 00:47:36,500 willing to push for a civil case. 846 00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:41,966 Charles, what is the difference between a civil case and a criminal case? 847 00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:45,933 A civil case is where you sue somebody, and that's for money. 848 00:47:45,933 --> 00:47:50,116 Whereas a criminal case is brought by the state, the government, 849 00:47:50,116 --> 00:47:53,833 and that's a case where if you're convicted, then you go to prison. 850 00:47:53,833 --> 00:47:56,866 So they're two very separate processes. 851 00:47:56,866 --> 00:47:59,433 What happens is the criminal case stalls because 852 00:47:59,433 --> 00:48:03,199 they can't find any evidence to suggest that Michael's done anything wrong. 853 00:48:03,199 --> 00:48:06,516 So they raid his house: they don't find anything incriminating. 854 00:48:06,516 --> 00:48:10,400 They raid his family home: they don't find anything incriminating. 855 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,750 They raid his doctor's offices: they don't find anything incriminating. 856 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,916 Of course, you've got a boy at the center of the case 857 00:48:16,916 --> 00:48:20,400 who at first said he wasn't molested then changed his 858 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,516 story and said that he was molested and only changed 859 00:48:23,516 --> 00:48:26,449 his mind after being given sodium amytal. 860 00:48:26,449 --> 00:48:28,883 So then they go off looking for other victims, 861 00:48:28,883 --> 00:48:30,800 and they can't find any. 862 00:48:30,933 --> 00:48:33,583 - In fact, if anybody wants to go back to 1993 863 00:48:33,583 --> 00:48:36,300 when I was interviewed by the Santa Barbara Police Department, 864 00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,533 I sat there and I gave them the names. 865 00:48:38,533 --> 00:48:41,099 They're on record. They have all of this information. 866 00:48:41,099 --> 00:48:43,333 But they were scanning Michael Jackson. 867 00:48:43,333 --> 00:48:45,983 All they cared about was trying to find something on Michael Jackson. 868 00:48:45,983 --> 00:48:49,183 - Who you said, by the way, did not abuse you. - who Michael was innocent! 869 00:48:49,183 --> 00:48:51,933 and that was what the interview was about with the police in 1993. 870 00:48:51,933 --> 00:48:54,216 I told them, "he is not that guy!" and they said, 871 00:48:54,216 --> 00:48:56,016 "Well, maybe you just don't understand your friend." 872 00:48:56,016 --> 00:48:58,900 And I said, "No, I know the difference between pedophiles 873 00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:01,500 and somebody who's not a pedophile because I've been molested! 874 00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:03,183 Here's the names! Go investigate! 875 00:49:03,183 --> 00:49:06,766 And these detectives hammer away at Corey Feldman: 876 00:49:06,766 --> 00:49:11,766 "What happened with you and Michael Jackson?" and over and over and over again, 877 00:49:11,766 --> 00:49:15,766 Corey Feldman says, "Nothing happened, I have racked my brain! 878 00:49:15,766 --> 00:49:19,916 I've thought about, 'well did something happen and I didn't realize it?' No! Nothing happened.” 879 00:49:19,916 --> 00:49:24,800 and they don't want to hear it! It seems like that is not what they want to hear. 880 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,849 They hammer away at him over and over again for more than an hour. 881 00:49:29,849 --> 00:49:32,000 What's really amazing is at one point he goes “You know, 882 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,250 I know what it’s like to be molested. I WAS molested." 883 00:49:35,250 --> 00:49:38,250 He names this person that he accuses of molesting him, 884 00:49:38,250 --> 00:49:41,000 and even says what his occupation is- 885 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,050 These detectives show very little interest in pursuing that angle 886 00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:47,050 and bring it right back to Michael Jackson, 887 00:49:47,050 --> 00:49:49,566 "Well, did you talk to Michael Jackson about that?" 888 00:49:49,766 --> 00:49:52,400 So the criminal case is basically going nowhere 889 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,849 but meanwhile, the civil case is moving 890 00:49:54,849 --> 00:49:58,166 through the court system at the usual speed. 891 00:49:58,166 --> 00:50:02,966 So the judge, in October of 1993, orders depositions. 892 00:50:02,966 --> 00:50:05,400 A deposition is where you're forced to state your case, 893 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,683 to give your evidence under oath. 894 00:50:07,683 --> 00:50:10,449 It can be done in court or it can be done under oath 895 00:50:10,449 --> 00:50:13,849 somewhere else and audiotaped or videotaped. 896 00:50:13,849 --> 00:50:18,699 Now, he orders that Michael Jackson is to be deposed by January '94. 897 00:50:18,699 --> 00:50:23,300 The problem with this is that if you have a civil case which comes before a criminal case, 898 00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:25,383 and you're forced to give away your defense, 899 00:50:25,383 --> 00:50:29,466 then what that does is gives the Prosecutor's a front-row seat for your defense, 900 00:50:29,466 --> 00:50:34,300 They can then go away and tailor their criminal case to circumvent your defense case. 901 00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:39,833 So for example, if you say I have an alibi in the civil case, 902 00:50:39,833 --> 00:50:43,199 Then the prosecutors can go and tailor their criminal case 903 00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:47,783 where they change all the dates and they could just change the case to get around it. 904 00:50:47,783 --> 00:50:50,800 If you have a witness, they go and discredit the witness 905 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,000 or they put the charges on a day when the witness wasn't there 906 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,116 so they just take your defense out chunk by chunk, 907 00:50:57,116 --> 00:51:01,550 and by the time you come into a Criminal Court, where your life is on the line, 908 00:51:01,550 --> 00:51:04,000 your freedom, rather than your bank balance, 909 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,633 you have no defense. 910 00:51:05,633 --> 00:51:08,016 You've wasted your defense trying to save some money, 911 00:51:08,016 --> 00:51:09,983 and now you're going to prison. 912 00:51:09,983 --> 00:51:13,300 That is the problem with a civil case proceeding a criminal case. 913 00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:18,266 Now from October 1993 to January 94, 914 00:51:18,266 --> 00:51:23,583 Michael's defense goes back to court 4 different times and argues to the judge, 915 00:51:23,583 --> 00:51:26,816 "We need the civil case delayed so it doesn't precede the 916 00:51:26,816 --> 00:51:30,066 criminal case because this is unconstitutional. 917 00:51:30,066 --> 00:51:32,583 If you force our client to give away his defense, 918 00:51:32,583 --> 00:51:36,300 then you're denying him his constitutional right to a fair trial". 919 00:51:37,016 --> 00:51:41,699 - Michael Jackson lost 2 very important motions that he should have won. 920 00:51:41,699 --> 00:51:43,300 One was a preference. 921 00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:46,183 Preference has to do with either: he was too young to remember 922 00:51:46,183 --> 00:51:49,016 and there's a memory issue, or he's too old. 923 00:51:49,016 --> 00:51:50,933 What Larry Feldman keeps arguing is that 924 00:51:50,933 --> 00:51:52,783 because the complainant is a child, 925 00:51:52,783 --> 00:51:55,500 his memory is not fully developed, 926 00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:59,500 and he would be at risk of losing his memory if his testimony was not heard quickly. 927 00:51:59,699 --> 00:52:03,933 - Jordie Chandler was 14 at the time. He wasn't too young or too old. 928 00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:07,616 The Jackson lawyers are going to court again and again and again 929 00:52:07,616 --> 00:52:12,183 to try to get this deposition put back- to get the civil case put back 930 00:52:12,183 --> 00:52:14,466 so the criminal case can precede it. 931 00:52:14,466 --> 00:52:17,783 Meanwhile, the Chandler's are fighting hard to stop that from happening. 932 00:52:18,266 --> 00:52:23,266 - Evan Chandler was asking the court to push the civil case before- 933 00:52:23,266 --> 00:52:25,900 while the criminal case was going because normally, 934 00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:30,066 the criminal case has to take precedence over the civil case. 935 00:52:30,066 --> 00:52:33,583 He shouldn't have one on that one because constitutionally, 936 00:52:33,583 --> 00:52:37,783 that went against Michael's constitutional right. He won on that one, too. 937 00:52:38,066 --> 00:52:42,300 Michael's deposition is due on a particular date in January '94. 938 00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:47,216 What happens is initially he's saved by the Los Angeles earthquake of '94, 939 00:52:47,216 --> 00:52:50,866 which happens the day before he's supposed to be deposed. 940 00:52:50,866 --> 00:52:53,616 That buys them an extra week, but within that week, 941 00:52:53,616 --> 00:52:56,783 they're again not able to postpone the civil case deposition. 942 00:52:57,216 --> 00:53:00,983 - When the judge is not ruling in your favor, that tells an attorney: 943 00:53:00,983 --> 00:53:04,733 maybe we need to settle this because he's not ruling in our favor right now. 944 00:53:04,933 --> 00:53:06,333 And so on the eve, 945 00:53:06,333 --> 00:53:09,266 literally the night before he would have been 946 00:53:09,266 --> 00:53:11,500 forced to give away his defense under oath, 947 00:53:12,666 --> 00:53:14,216 The civil settlement is reached. 948 00:53:14,983 --> 00:53:16,266 The civil case is settled. 949 00:53:16,733 --> 00:53:18,066 - He was negotiating. 950 00:53:18,066 --> 00:53:22,666 Johnnie Cochran came on board, he was negotiating with the insurance company. 951 00:53:22,666 --> 00:53:26,183 At first, the insurance company said, no, they weren't gonna pay it, 952 00:53:26,183 --> 00:53:29,500 and he went back and forth back and forth and he nego- 953 00:53:29,500 --> 00:53:32,416 Johnnie Cochran negotiated. He was a great negotiator, 954 00:53:32,416 --> 00:53:35,733 because he was a P.I. Attorney. He started out a P.I. Attorney. 955 00:53:35,733 --> 00:53:39,983 and he convinced the insurance company to pay the settlement. 956 00:53:39,983 --> 00:53:43,266 When Michael settled the case, the judge- um, 957 00:53:43,266 --> 00:53:46,383 They made him drop his extortion claim, 958 00:53:46,383 --> 00:53:49,416 so the real story hasn't been told. 959 00:53:49,416 --> 00:53:54,266 The real story is that Michael Jackson was the victim of an elaborate 960 00:53:54,266 --> 00:53:57,816 extortion scheme that launched the false allegation. 961 00:54:05,466 --> 00:54:06,783 reporter: Superstar, Michael Jackson, 962 00:54:06,783 --> 00:54:11,099 and the teenage boy who filed a civil molestation suit against him 963 00:54:11,099 --> 00:54:13,816 have reached a multi-million dollar out-of-court settlement. 964 00:54:13,816 --> 00:54:16,416 Attorneys on both sides appeared today at a joint press conference 965 00:54:16,416 --> 00:54:19,099 to announce a mutual resolution of the lawsuit, 966 00:54:19,099 --> 00:54:22,616 but lawyers are not discussing the actual amount of the settlement. 967 00:54:23,416 --> 00:54:27,133 Now, the civil settlement includes a specific clause 968 00:54:27,133 --> 00:54:29,900 which says that it doesn't preclude anybody involved 969 00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:34,699 from testifying in a criminal case, and then to reiterate that, 970 00:54:34,699 --> 00:54:37,216 at the press conference announcing the settlement, 971 00:54:37,216 --> 00:54:41,016 Larry Feldman specifically denies that this will have any impact 972 00:54:41,016 --> 00:54:44,616 on the criminal case. - Has Michael Jackson bought your client's silence? 973 00:54:44,616 --> 00:54:47,466 - I am not going to have anything to do with talking 974 00:54:47,466 --> 00:54:49,666 about the terms of the settlement and 975 00:54:49,666 --> 00:54:52,216 Nobody's bought anyone's silence. 976 00:54:52,616 --> 00:54:55,300 A civil case is only about money if they- 977 00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:57,133 you know, and I tell people this too: 978 00:54:57,133 --> 00:55:00,783 we're in a state where they could have went after criminal- 979 00:55:00,783 --> 00:55:05,383 him criminally and came back after the money: all they wanted. 980 00:55:05,383 --> 00:55:11,066 A lot of people think because he settled the civil case, that that voided the criminal. 981 00:55:11,066 --> 00:55:13,866 That's not true. It did not void the criminal. 982 00:55:13,866 --> 00:55:17,300 The reason they never came after him criminally in '93 983 00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:21,266 was because they couldn't find any corroborating evidence 984 00:55:21,266 --> 00:55:23,783 to agree with Jordie Chandler's story. 985 00:55:23,783 --> 00:55:26,783 As a matter of fact, they found out that the description 986 00:55:26,783 --> 00:55:30,333 he gave of Michael's body was not accurate. 987 00:55:30,333 --> 00:55:33,133 If that was accurate, that was corroborating. 988 00:55:33,783 --> 00:55:35,783 As of the summer of 1994, 989 00:55:35,783 --> 00:55:39,783 the prosecution is running a grand jury long after the settlement 990 00:55:39,783 --> 00:55:43,133 and calls witnesses to the grand jury and questions them about 991 00:55:43,133 --> 00:55:48,416 whether Michael Jackson could have had plastic surgery to his penis to avoid a match. 992 00:55:48,416 --> 00:55:50,383 Now, why would they be doing that? 993 00:55:50,383 --> 00:55:52,933 Why would they be calling witnesses and asking those questions 994 00:55:52,933 --> 00:55:54,816 if in fact the photographs had matched? 995 00:55:55,466 --> 00:55:59,733 See, people need to know they never indicted Michael in '93 996 00:55:59,733 --> 00:56:02,900 'cause they couldn't come up with enough evidence to indict him. 997 00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:05,816 And so, the way they spinning it, they're spinning it: 998 00:56:05,816 --> 00:56:09,300 "Well, oh he said also that that voided the-" 999 00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:10,616 No, it did not. 1000 00:56:10,616 --> 00:56:14,133 If that prosecutor, Tom Sneddon, could find 1001 00:56:14,133 --> 00:56:17,733 could have found anything to corroborate that boy's story, 1002 00:56:17,733 --> 00:56:20,666 he would have still gone- gone after him criminally, too. 1003 00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:42,083 Victor Gutierrez is a freelance reporter, born in Chile. 1004 00:56:42,083 --> 00:56:46,883 According to him, he first went to a NABLA meeting in 1986. 1005 00:56:46,883 --> 00:56:53,166 What is NAMBLA? NAMBLA stands for North American Men Boys Love Association, 1006 00:56:53,166 --> 00:56:55,599 So it's basically a pro-pedophile group. 1007 00:56:56,233 --> 00:57:02,716 -Tell us about you infiltrating this group. -Actually, the infiltration was fairly easy, um, 1008 00:57:02,716 --> 00:57:06,283 They had a website. I paid $35. I joined the group. 1009 00:57:06,283 --> 00:57:08,516 They sent me a letter, um, praising me 1010 00:57:08,516 --> 00:57:12,000 for my courageous step in joining the organization. 1011 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:16,650 I began to get e-mails from them. I was subscribed to their magazine. 1012 00:57:16,650 --> 00:57:18,400 They started to send me their magazine. 1013 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,000 But they wouldn't allow me to attend any of their secret underground meetings 1014 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,516 until I'd been a member for 3 years and 1015 00:57:25,516 --> 00:57:28,716 had been sponsored by another "active duty" member. 1016 00:57:28,716 --> 00:57:34,083 Every conversation that I had was about where to go to have sex with little boys, 1017 00:57:34,083 --> 00:57:36,166 how they could attract little boys, 1018 00:57:36,166 --> 00:57:37,883 how they could groom little boys. 1019 00:57:37,883 --> 00:57:38,933 That was their agenda. 1020 00:57:39,383 --> 00:57:44,099 So at this meeting, he overhears conversations talking about how 1021 00:57:44,099 --> 00:57:47,616 it would be great if Michael Jackson was a pedophile 1022 00:57:47,616 --> 00:57:49,983 because if Michael Jackson is a pedophile, 1023 00:57:49,983 --> 00:57:55,066 that makes it easier for societies to accept pedophilia as a whole. 1024 00:57:55,066 --> 00:58:01,099 So after this NAMBLA conference, after this 1986 conference, 1025 00:58:01,099 --> 00:58:06,733 it becomes Victor Gutierrez's mission to prove that Michael Jackson is a pedophile. 1026 00:58:06,733 --> 00:58:11,783 He starts befriending Michael Jackson's maids, former employees, 1027 00:58:11,783 --> 00:58:15,583 and he even approaches Joy Robson, Wade Robson's mother. 1028 00:58:15,583 --> 00:58:18,383 Joy Robson subsequently told him to get lost and 1029 00:58:18,383 --> 00:58:21,666 Joy Robson reported him to Michael Jackson. 1030 00:58:21,666 --> 00:58:25,900 This is in 1992, before allegations of Michael Jackson even rose. 1031 00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:28,333 So during the '93 allegations, 1032 00:58:28,333 --> 00:58:32,500 Victor Gutierrez served as a source for many journalists, 1033 00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:37,216 including but are not limited to Diane Dimond and Maureen Orth. 1034 00:58:37,216 --> 00:58:40,983 He also coaches Michael Jackson's former employees, 1035 00:58:40,983 --> 00:58:45,866 such as his maids, Blanca Francia and Adrian McManus, 1036 00:58:45,866 --> 00:58:49,466 notable ones, to sell their stories to tabloids. 1037 00:58:49,466 --> 00:58:53,783 In 1996, Victor Gutierrez wrote a book titled 1038 00:58:53,783 --> 00:58:59,300 "Michael Jackson Was My Lover", a book that glorified pedophilia 1039 00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:02,816 through the relationship between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler. 1040 00:59:12,500 --> 00:59:15,016 The Chandler family has since dismissed 1041 00:59:15,016 --> 00:59:19,333 Victor Gutierrez's book as pure fiction. The Chandler's- 1042 00:59:19,333 --> 00:59:23,583 Raymond Chandler, released a book in 2004 titled, 1043 00:59:23,583 --> 00:59:25,466 "All That Glitters". 1044 00:59:25,983 --> 00:59:28,099 Within days of Jordan Chandler and his family 1045 00:59:28,099 --> 00:59:31,500 settling his 1993 lawsuit against Michael Jackson, 1046 00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:33,733 I received a call from Jordan's uncle. 1047 00:59:33,733 --> 00:59:37,216 He wanted to do a book in which he would describe in detail 1048 00:59:37,216 --> 00:59:39,849 the allegation of molestation against Michael Jackson, 1049 00:59:39,849 --> 00:59:44,650 and he said that Jordan's father had given him all the information he needed for the book, 1050 00:59:44,650 --> 00:59:48,099 and believed it was outside the bounds of the confidentiality agreement, 1051 00:59:48,099 --> 00:59:49,650 because he would be the author. 1052 00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:51,500 After careful examination between 1053 00:59:51,500 --> 00:59:56,183 'Michael Jackson Was my Lover' and 'All That Glitters': these two books- 1054 00:59:56,183 --> 01:00:01,416 we have found many instances of consistent storytelling between the two books, 1055 01:00:01,416 --> 01:00:03,550 especially from Evan's point of view. 1056 01:00:03,550 --> 01:00:07,349 At times, the stories are even word-for-word the same. 1057 01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:11,616 Truthfully speaking, the only differences between the two books are the 1058 01:00:11,616 --> 01:00:15,783 supposed sexual acts between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler. 1059 01:00:15,783 --> 01:00:18,866 Now when you look at some of these parallel stories even deeper, 1060 01:00:18,866 --> 01:00:23,416 Gutierrez's book, which preceded the Chandler's book by 7 years, 1061 01:00:23,416 --> 01:00:26,383 even sources some stories directly to Evan. 1062 01:00:26,383 --> 01:00:31,900 So how would it be possible for Gutierrez to tell these confirmable stories first? 1063 01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:35,500 'Michael Jackson Was my Lover' also featured many documents 1064 01:00:36,116 --> 01:00:39,766 of the Chandler family that could only have come from Evan. 1065 01:00:49,966 --> 01:00:52,800 This proves that Victor Gutierrez, 1066 01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,833 a man who has an agenda for pushing Michael Jackson as a pedophile, 1067 01:00:56,833 --> 01:01:00,633 a man who had coached people to lie against Michael Jackson, 1068 01:01:00,633 --> 01:01:03,199 was in fact connected to Evan Chandler, 1069 01:01:03,199 --> 01:01:05,199 the father of the first accuser. 1070 01:01:11,616 --> 01:01:14,966 Ever since the Michael Jackson child molestation scandal broke, 1071 01:01:14,966 --> 01:01:18,650 we've gotten a constant stream of calls and letters from people 1072 01:01:18,650 --> 01:01:21,216 making dubious claims about the singer. 1073 01:01:21,216 --> 01:01:23,333 Frankly, we ignore most of them, 1074 01:01:23,333 --> 01:01:25,699 but when I heard the facts of this story, 1075 01:01:25,699 --> 01:01:28,633 I just had to go to Canada and check it out myself. 1076 01:01:29,233 --> 01:01:32,183 The journalist, Diane Dimond, got a tip from her source 1077 01:01:32,183 --> 01:01:35,466 that a child had been molested by Michael Jackson. 1078 01:01:35,466 --> 01:01:41,116 This child lived in Toronto, so she flew to Toronto with authorities to interview the boy. 1079 01:01:41,283 --> 01:01:43,116 I'd like to make a confession about something that 1080 01:01:43,116 --> 01:01:45,116 happened between me and Michael Jackson. 1081 01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:49,283 And this child proceeded to tell wild stories with vivid details. 1082 01:01:49,766 --> 01:01:53,000 - He started just touching like our stomach and things, 1083 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,516 like he'd rub our stomach and then he-he'd get lower and then, 1084 01:01:56,516 --> 01:01:58,883 that's when I started saying like, "What are you doing?" 1085 01:01:58,883 --> 01:02:02,566 He said, "It's okay, don't worry. Bodies are meant to be touched." 1086 01:02:02,566 --> 01:02:05,283 He showed me this place like a saddle shop, 1087 01:02:05,283 --> 01:02:08,199 where he said he-- he said he gets stuff for his animals there. 1088 01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:09,233 I don't know what he got but- 1089 01:02:09,233 --> 01:02:12,683 - They're gonna' think you're making it up. - Yeah I know, I know. 1090 01:02:12,683 --> 01:02:15,033 But I don't care about his money, he can keep it. 1091 01:02:15,033 --> 01:02:18,199 His eyes are big and they're- they're dark, like cavernous 1092 01:02:18,199 --> 01:02:20,400 -like the sockets go right in, you know? 1093 01:02:20,633 --> 01:02:22,466 We showed the boy several photographs, 1094 01:02:22,466 --> 01:02:25,666 some of them were of Neverland employees, 1095 01:02:25,666 --> 01:02:29,066 and he was able to identify each and every one of them. 1096 01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:32,933 Yeah, that's him.. that's him. 1097 01:02:33,650 --> 01:02:35,733 I found him fairly believable too. 1098 01:02:35,733 --> 01:02:37,800 During police interviews, the child broke down 1099 01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,283 and confirmed that he had been coached. 1100 01:02:40,283 --> 01:02:44,000 At the end, it turned out he was coached by Rodney Allen. 1101 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,449 - About Neverland? About Hayvenhurst? 1102 01:02:46,449 --> 01:02:49,483 About Disneyland? About Michael Jackson's body- 1103 01:02:49,483 --> 01:02:52,849 Where did he get all that information? - He got it from me. 1104 01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:58,133 - This kid is an A-1 Number One liar. - Professional. 1105 01:02:58,133 --> 01:03:00,599 Rodney Allen is currently serving a life sentence 1106 01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:03,733 in a Canadian prison for pedophilia. 1107 01:03:03,733 --> 01:03:07,333 Paula, a Michael Jackson investigator, has confirmed 1108 01:03:07,333 --> 01:03:10,766 through letters to Rodney Allen that 1109 01:03:10,766 --> 01:03:14,333 Rodney Allen was in fact connected to Victor Gutierrez. 1110 01:03:14,333 --> 01:03:19,133 In 1999, there was a blog post floating around the internet 1111 01:03:19,133 --> 01:03:21,250 that was said to be written by Rodney Allen, 1112 01:03:21,250 --> 01:03:24,849 but no one took it seriously at the time because there was no evidence 1113 01:03:24,849 --> 01:03:26,650 as to who authored the post. 1114 01:03:26,650 --> 01:03:29,849 Paula sent this blog post to Rodney Allen 1115 01:03:29,849 --> 01:03:34,166 and Rodney Allen has since confirmed that he in fact did write this confession, 1116 01:03:34,166 --> 01:03:36,199 and in the confession, this is what he talked 1117 01:03:36,199 --> 01:03:38,683 about in regards to the Jordan Chandler case. 1118 01:03:48,333 --> 01:03:51,683 This obviously doesn't prove anything concrete, but 1119 01:03:51,683 --> 01:03:54,400 it's still interesting that Rodney Allen, 1120 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,000 a man who was connected to Victor Gutierrez, 1121 01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,483 a man who has a history of coaching kids to lie against Michael Jackson 1122 01:04:00,483 --> 01:04:02,000 had that to say. 1123 01:04:04,533 --> 01:04:08,199 The King of Pop chocks up a big win! 1124 01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:12,000 A jury has awarded Michael Jackson a whopping $2.7 million 1125 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,000 for a defamation lawsuit he filed against freelance writer, Victor Gutierrez. 1126 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,566 Gutierrez claimed on a tabloid TV show that he'd seen a 1127 01:04:18,566 --> 01:04:20,650 video of Jackson having sex with a boy. 1128 01:04:20,650 --> 01:04:25,199 This guy made it up out of thin air maliciously to hurt Michael, 1129 01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:28,000 and he told anybody and- anybody and everybody who would listen. 1130 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,883 When it came time to prove it in this court, 1131 01:04:29,883 --> 01:04:31,000 he couldn't prove it. 1132 01:04:41,266 --> 01:04:43,599 Years later, in the early 2000s, 1133 01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:47,599 Victor Gutierrez again started spreading rumors regarding sexual abuse. 1134 01:04:47,599 --> 01:04:51,516 This time around the involvement of politicians in Chile. 1135 01:04:51,516 --> 01:04:55,266 A boy claimed he participated in these sexual activities 1136 01:04:55,266 --> 01:04:58,800 and was able to describe stories with vivid details. 1137 01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:03,199 It was later proven in court that the boy had never met this politician. 1138 01:05:03,199 --> 01:05:06,633 While questioned, the boy could not even remember the politician's name 1139 01:05:06,633 --> 01:05:09,800 and had to be prompted by Victor Gutierrez off camera. 1140 01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,633 It was later discovered that Gutierrez had paid this child 1141 01:05:12,633 --> 01:05:15,550 around 10 to 20 thousand pesos. 1142 01:05:15,550 --> 01:05:18,466 There were no other witnesses, nor proof, 1143 01:05:18,466 --> 01:05:22,349 just the words of a boy who were connected to Victor Gutierrez, 1144 01:05:22,349 --> 01:05:25,433 the same man who was connected to Evan Chandler. 1145 01:05:40,216 --> 01:05:43,099 And we also weren't- and I've been very transparent. 1146 01:05:43,099 --> 01:05:45,133 We weren't best friends. We weren't very close. 1147 01:05:45,133 --> 01:05:47,266 I kept, you know, him at arm's length 1148 01:05:47,266 --> 01:05:52,333 because I knew who he was, and I didn't really know how to deal with that. 1149 01:05:52,333 --> 01:05:54,066 And he was very close with, um- 1150 01:05:54,066 --> 01:05:56,066 I remember one other person in the program 1151 01:05:56,066 --> 01:05:59,699 who also was sort of like a pop R&B guy. 1152 01:05:59,699 --> 01:06:04,666 I believe he did production, and he also was a big Michael Jackson fan. 1153 01:06:04,666 --> 01:06:09,133 So I mean, of- when I think about the people in the program that he- 1154 01:06:09,133 --> 01:06:12,066 I saw him with, the people that he did surround himself with 1155 01:06:12,066 --> 01:06:14,266 were people who were Michael Jackson fans, you know? 1156 01:06:14,266 --> 01:06:17,416 I was told that at a party, um, Jordan 1157 01:06:17,416 --> 01:06:20,099 you know, played all of Michael's music, 1158 01:06:20,099 --> 01:06:22,733 danced like him, did all of his moves, um, 1159 01:06:22,733 --> 01:06:24,816 and that his apartment was almost sort of 1160 01:06:24,816 --> 01:06:26,699 a shrine to Michael, 1161 01:06:26,699 --> 01:06:29,666 that there was a lot of different like fan memorabilia. 1162 01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:51,983 It doesn't surprise me that people are scared to come out. 1163 01:06:51,983 --> 01:06:56,266 because um, you know, I have some flexibility I work for myself. 1164 01:06:56,266 --> 01:06:58,666 If I were in a corporate job, I might be scared too 1165 01:06:58,666 --> 01:07:01,666 because we don't really know the- 1166 01:07:01,666 --> 01:07:03,533 we don't really know who the powers that be are 1167 01:07:03,533 --> 01:07:06,983 behind 'Leaving Neverland', and, you know, 1168 01:07:06,983 --> 01:07:09,733 to speak out at this point, 1169 01:07:09,733 --> 01:07:11,933 might be cause a conflict of interest for somebody 1170 01:07:11,933 --> 01:07:14,466 if they're working with a big corporation, you know? 1171 01:07:14,466 --> 01:07:16,466 It could have really harmed their career, so I'm 1172 01:07:16,466 --> 01:07:18,666 not surprised that people would be afraid to come out. 1173 01:07:26,866 --> 01:07:28,099 So after the settlement, 1174 01:07:28,099 --> 01:07:30,300 Michael is married to Lisa Marie Presley and 1175 01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:32,383 goes to work on an album called 'HIStory'. 1176 01:07:32,783 --> 01:07:33,816 At a warehouse in London, 1177 01:07:33,816 --> 01:07:35,933 staff listened to the long-awaited new songs today 1178 01:07:35,933 --> 01:07:39,099 as they wrapped them ready to go on sale tomorrow. 1179 01:07:39,099 --> 01:07:42,183 The album called 'HIStory' contains 15 old hits 1180 01:07:42,183 --> 01:07:44,066 and 15 new songs. 1181 01:07:44,066 --> 01:07:45,733 Much of the content of the 'HIStory' album 1182 01:07:45,733 --> 01:07:50,333 you could argue, of course, all art is subject to interpretation 1183 01:07:50,333 --> 01:07:54,933 but it seems to be quite clearly influenced by what has happened to him 1184 01:07:54,933 --> 01:07:56,933 during the Jordan Chandler legal situation. 1185 01:08:36,250 --> 01:08:39,100 And also, once married to Lisa Marie Presley 1186 01:08:39,100 --> 01:08:40,899 and about to release the album, 1187 01:08:40,899 --> 01:08:43,500 he appears on PrimeTime with Diane Sawyer 1188 01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:46,699 along with Lisa Marie Presley and does an interview, 1189 01:08:46,699 --> 01:08:48,383 and during that interview, 1190 01:08:48,383 --> 01:08:51,566 although he does not discuss any specifics of the Jordan Chandler case, 1191 01:08:51,566 --> 01:08:54,550 He does say that he's innocent 1192 01:08:54,550 --> 01:08:57,250 and that there's no evidence to connect him to any crime. 1193 01:08:57,250 --> 01:09:00,016 The police photographs, that they took of me? 1194 01:09:00,016 --> 01:09:01,866 There was nothing that matched me to those charges. 1195 01:09:01,866 --> 01:09:05,583 - There was nothing that concurred. - That's why I'm sitting here talking to you today. 1196 01:09:05,583 --> 01:09:08,983 - There was nothing. - There was not one iota of information 1197 01:09:08,983 --> 01:09:12,216 that was found that could connect me to these charges - So when we heard.. 1198 01:09:12,216 --> 01:09:13,416 -Nothing! 1199 01:09:13,583 --> 01:09:15,316 Now, the combination of the album 1200 01:09:15,316 --> 01:09:19,199 and the Diane Sawyer interview sends Evan Chandler into a rage, 1201 01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:23,000 and he claims that Michael Jackson has breached the non-disclosure part 1202 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:26,466 of the settlement agreement, and so he files a lawsuit 1203 01:09:26,466 --> 01:09:29,000 and the remedy that he's seeking is that he wants 1204 01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,550 $60 million in damages and he also wants the court's permission 1205 01:09:33,550 --> 01:09:36,666 to also breach the non-disclosure agreement 1206 01:09:36,666 --> 01:09:42,033 and to release his own album called 'EVANStory'. 1207 01:09:42,033 --> 01:09:45,199 So he basically went to court and tried to get a court order 1208 01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:51,000 allowing him to release a rebuttal album on top of seeking $60 million. 1209 01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,033 That case rumbled on and on for about 6 years 1210 01:09:54,033 --> 01:09:55,316 and eventually was tossed out of court, 1211 01:09:55,316 --> 01:09:57,833 and he didn't get anything he was asking for. 1212 01:10:04,050 --> 01:10:07,050 You know in- in just discussions, ah, 1213 01:10:07,050 --> 01:10:08,583 You know, we were college students, you know, we 1214 01:10:08,583 --> 01:10:10,633 would have our- our discussions about our parents and 1215 01:10:10,633 --> 01:10:12,850 venting and that sort of thing. 1216 01:10:12,850 --> 01:10:16,266 He said that he felt very used by his parents 1217 01:10:16,266 --> 01:10:17,949 and that he wasn't close to them. 1218 01:10:17,949 --> 01:10:20,166 He never mentioned siblings either 1219 01:10:20,166 --> 01:10:23,083 so I don't know what was going on there, but um, 1220 01:10:23,083 --> 01:10:25,716 He did say multiple times that he was not close 1221 01:10:25,716 --> 01:10:28,683 to his family and that he felt that he was used by them. 1222 01:10:36,016 --> 01:10:37,383 I'm sure most of you are aware 1223 01:10:37,383 --> 01:10:40,583 of the recent television special that claimed 1224 01:10:40,583 --> 01:10:44,100 to give an honest, candid, and revealing look into the 1225 01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:46,333 private life of one of the world's most successful 1226 01:10:46,333 --> 01:10:49,066 and controversial celebrities, Michael Jackson. 1227 01:10:49,066 --> 01:10:51,333 The revelations were explosive. 1228 01:10:51,333 --> 01:10:53,133 The ratings were enormous. 1229 01:10:53,133 --> 01:10:56,216 but what TV journalist Martin Bashir presented 1230 01:10:56,216 --> 01:10:59,066 was a twisted and edited construction of scandal 1231 01:10:59,066 --> 01:11:02,133 and innuendo, not a true representation 1232 01:11:02,133 --> 01:11:04,333 of the interviews that actually took place. 1233 01:11:04,333 --> 01:11:05,866 When 'Living with Michael Jackson' was released, 1234 01:11:05,866 --> 01:11:10,066 it reignited the discussion about whether or not 1235 01:11:10,066 --> 01:11:12,066 Michael Jackson was a child molester. 1236 01:11:12,066 --> 01:11:16,616 The film featured a close-up of Michael holding hands with Gavin Arvizo 1237 01:11:16,616 --> 01:11:22,899 who was a cancer victim, who then went on to be the accuser in the 2005 trial. 1238 01:11:22,899 --> 01:11:25,866 And because um, of that shot and, you know, 1239 01:11:25,866 --> 01:11:28,533 the ratings behind 'Living with Michael Jackson', 1240 01:11:28,533 --> 01:11:32,133 it was a huge topic of conversation in every area of my life 1241 01:11:32,133 --> 01:11:35,333 particularly in my program meetings. 1242 01:11:35,333 --> 01:11:38,866 Immediately after the Martin Bashir documentary aired, 1243 01:11:38,866 --> 01:11:42,616 we had a program meeting and there was a discussion about, you know, 1244 01:11:42,616 --> 01:11:45,333 whether or not Michael Jackson was a child molester. People were calling him "freak". 1245 01:11:45,333 --> 01:11:49,333 These were people who did not have any fondness for Michael Jackson and 1246 01:11:49,333 --> 01:11:51,783 I chimed in with my belief that I didn't believe 1247 01:11:51,783 --> 01:11:54,016 that Michael Jackson was a child molester 1248 01:11:54,016 --> 01:11:57,533 and that the documentary was, um, you know, 1249 01:11:57,533 --> 01:12:00,983 misleading and exploited him. 1250 01:12:00,983 --> 01:12:02,616 During that conversation, 1251 01:12:02,616 --> 01:12:05,416 Jordan Chandler chimed in and said that he too 1252 01:12:05,416 --> 01:12:07,666 believed that Michael Jackson wasn't capable 1253 01:12:07,666 --> 01:12:09,333 of the things he was being accused of. 1254 01:12:09,333 --> 01:12:10,933 And he said that voluntarily, 1255 01:12:10,933 --> 01:12:12,616 and he said it without my prompting, 1256 01:12:12,616 --> 01:12:13,533 and he wasn't asked. 1257 01:12:19,050 --> 01:12:20,883 He wasn't in the direct conversation no, 1258 01:12:20,883 --> 01:12:22,933 I mean I was arguing with a group of maybe 1259 01:12:22,933 --> 01:12:26,733 3 other people, um, and he- he was seated close to us 1260 01:12:26,733 --> 01:12:28,966 but he wasn't in on this discussion 1261 01:12:28,966 --> 01:12:32,083 and you know throughout the semester, 1262 01:12:32,083 --> 01:12:34,016 there were different occasions like that 1263 01:12:34,016 --> 01:12:36,016 where he would again sort of 1264 01:12:36,016 --> 01:12:39,133 reaffirm things that I said in defense of Michael Jackson 1265 01:12:39,133 --> 01:12:41,766 and I remember that very first time, um, 1266 01:12:41,766 --> 01:12:43,649 I remember catching his eye. 1267 01:12:43,649 --> 01:12:45,533 It was shocking that he would speak up! 1268 01:12:45,533 --> 01:12:49,816 And it really affirmed my belief that Michael was innocent and 1269 01:12:49,816 --> 01:12:52,416 you know given things that Jordan had said separately 1270 01:12:52,416 --> 01:12:53,883 having nothing to do with Michael Jackson 1271 01:12:53,883 --> 01:12:55,483 about his home life, you know, 1272 01:12:55,483 --> 01:12:57,216 It affirmed my belief that 1273 01:12:57,216 --> 01:12:59,166 he was a victim of his parents' greed 1274 01:12:59,166 --> 01:13:01,283 and that he was forced to say certain things 1275 01:13:01,283 --> 01:13:03,283 because I really have a hard time believing 1276 01:13:03,283 --> 01:13:05,083 that if he had been molested by Michael Jackson, 1277 01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:07,216 he would be going out of his way to say that 1278 01:13:07,216 --> 01:13:09,533 he didn't think he was capable of these things. 1279 01:13:09,533 --> 01:13:11,616 and I didn't address it with him. I mean I was 1280 01:13:11,616 --> 01:13:16,016 One, I was very young and Two, I didn't really know 1281 01:13:16,016 --> 01:13:18,483 how important it would have been to address it then. 1282 01:13:18,483 --> 01:13:21,016 These conversations all happened before Gavin Arvizo 1283 01:13:21,016 --> 01:13:22,816 made any allegations against Michael Jackson. 1284 01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:39,616 Certainly, when I made the documentary, 1285 01:13:39,616 --> 01:13:42,250 there was a small part of that which contained a 1286 01:13:42,250 --> 01:13:47,216 controversy concerning his relationship with other young people. 1287 01:13:47,216 --> 01:13:50,850 But the truth is that he was never convicted of any crime. 1288 01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:53,449 I never saw any wrongdoing myself. 1289 01:13:53,449 --> 01:13:56,016 and whilst his lifestyle may have been a bit unorthodox, 1290 01:13:56,016 --> 01:13:57,566 I don't believe it was criminal. 1291 01:13:58,333 --> 01:14:01,566 Wait! Wait, you know they- Bashir- Hey! 1292 01:14:01,566 --> 01:14:03,566 You know how Bashir zoomed in on- on 1293 01:14:03,566 --> 01:14:06,616 on him holding hands? Do that the same thing! 1294 01:14:06,616 --> 01:14:10,766 - It's cuz you know how a- - Because that's what a mother does it with her son. 1295 01:14:10,766 --> 01:14:14,366 -Like you know how a father does? -or a father does with his son, you know? 1296 01:14:14,366 --> 01:14:17,250 And they tried to make it out to seem- be something 1297 01:14:17,250 --> 01:14:18,766 "wrong" and "dirty"? 1298 01:14:21,649 --> 01:14:24,366 Her son with ill with cancer 1299 01:14:24,366 --> 01:14:25,616 and they were losing their house 1300 01:14:25,616 --> 01:14:26,850 and they were losing their car 1301 01:14:26,850 --> 01:14:29,250 because of the medical expenses. 1302 01:14:29,250 --> 01:14:31,250 She said, "You know what? 1303 01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:33,366 We didn't make enough money from the first story. 1304 01:14:33,366 --> 01:14:35,300 Will you run another story?" 1305 01:14:36,166 --> 01:14:37,533 The mother's phone call promoted the 1306 01:14:37,533 --> 01:14:40,449 reporter to carry out more research on the family. 1307 01:14:40,449 --> 01:14:44,250 She was stunned and shaken to learn that the family was insured, 1308 01:14:44,250 --> 01:14:47,533 and their medical expenses had been covered all along. 1309 01:14:48,533 --> 01:14:50,216 -It gives me goosebumps. It does- 1310 01:14:50,216 --> 01:14:55,933 It does! That a mother would use her son- to- 1311 01:14:55,933 --> 01:14:59,966 to use her son's illness- for their own gain. 1312 01:15:05,899 --> 01:15:07,783 Gavin came to Michael and said, 1313 01:15:07,783 --> 01:15:11,383 "Michael could we sleep in your room tonight?" 1314 01:15:11,383 --> 01:15:12,533 and Michael- 1315 01:15:12,533 --> 01:15:15,733 Michael looked at me and says, "I don't know, you know, 1316 01:15:15,733 --> 01:15:17,983 I think you better ask your mother." 1317 01:15:17,983 --> 01:15:19,649 "Oh, we already asked our mother! 1318 01:15:19,649 --> 01:15:22,216 She says, 'sure no problem'!" 1319 01:15:22,216 --> 01:15:25,850 Like, no, this is- something's odd, this is not right. 1320 01:15:25,850 --> 01:15:28,649 and then as I was about to go tell Gavin 1321 01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:31,383 that he cannot sleep in Michael's room, 1322 01:15:31,383 --> 01:15:34,850 Michael says, "Okay, I have a solution for this: 1323 01:15:34,850 --> 01:15:38,050 You have to sleep in the room with me." 1324 01:15:38,050 --> 01:15:40,383 The two children slept on the bed 1325 01:15:40,383 --> 01:15:42,100 and Michael and I slept on the floor. 1326 01:15:51,550 --> 01:15:52,550 Filed formal charges 1327 01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:55,500 of felony criminal complaint against Mr. Jackson. 1328 01:15:55,500 --> 01:16:00,300 The, uh, felony complaint involves 9 counts, uh, 1329 01:16:00,300 --> 01:16:05,416 7 counts of 288A in violation of California Penal Code, 1330 01:16:05,416 --> 01:16:08,016 commonly known as child molestation. 1331 01:16:11,633 --> 01:16:13,550 Thursday, jurors listened as the teen 1332 01:16:13,550 --> 01:16:16,183 contradicted his brother and sisters testimony 1333 01:16:16,183 --> 01:16:17,866 and couldn't recall key details 1334 01:16:17,866 --> 01:16:19,750 of the molestation allegations. 1335 01:16:20,033 --> 01:16:23,066 The defense pointed out that in an early police interview, 1336 01:16:23,066 --> 01:16:27,583 the young accuser said his grandmother had told him about a certain type of sexual act, 1337 01:16:27,583 --> 01:16:31,116 even though he had testified that Jackson had told him about it. 1338 01:16:31,516 --> 01:16:32,466 This young man, 1339 01:16:32,466 --> 01:16:36,316 in a moment of high emotion with this former Dean, 1340 01:16:36,316 --> 01:16:37,666 looks the Dean in the eye and says, 1341 01:16:37,666 --> 01:16:39,716 "No, Michael Jackson didn't molest me". 1342 01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:50,516 I was on the witness list for the trial in 2005 1343 01:16:50,516 --> 01:16:54,066 because I spent the entire day with Gavin Arvizo 1344 01:16:54,066 --> 01:16:59,233 at Neverland on February 19, 2003. 1345 01:16:59,233 --> 01:17:02,949 This was the very same day that Gavin and his mother, 1346 01:17:02,949 --> 01:17:07,733 Janet, accused Michael of inappropriate behavior. 1347 01:17:07,733 --> 01:17:10,766 The day that they accused Michael of wrongdoing 1348 01:17:10,766 --> 01:17:13,899 was a day that Gavin didn't even see Michael. 1349 01:17:13,899 --> 01:17:15,733 Instead? He was with us. 1350 01:17:16,050 --> 01:17:18,733 -In 2005 during the trial, 1351 01:17:18,733 --> 01:17:20,533 you were on the witness list. 1352 01:17:20,533 --> 01:17:24,166 -Yeah! We were on the witness list because when 1353 01:17:24,166 --> 01:17:26,800 we stayed at Neverland March 9th and 10th, 1354 01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,733 Gavin Arvizo and his brother and sister were with us 1355 01:17:29,733 --> 01:17:32,933 and the reason why it was so important- the dates 1356 01:17:32,933 --> 01:17:35,766 is because Michael was supposedly abusing him 1357 01:17:35,766 --> 01:17:38,483 until March 12th, and we were there March 9th and 10th 1358 01:17:38,483 --> 01:17:40,733 - Right, so when you were there. - and that was not happening. 1359 01:17:40,733 --> 01:17:43,000 I don't know where prosecutors go from here 1360 01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:44,649 I don't know whether they can prevail 1361 01:17:44,649 --> 01:17:47,800 and get the convictions that they want against Michael Jackson. 1362 01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:51,000 Their main witness, the accuser, the alleged victim in the case, 1363 01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,966 the one witness that the jury has to believe for prosecutors to win 1364 01:17:54,966 --> 01:17:58,133 just wasn't that believable, and now, prosecutors are stuck. 1365 01:17:58,133 --> 01:18:00,000 The most dramatic part of their case, 1366 01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,083 the highest point of their case has already passed and 1367 01:18:02,083 --> 01:18:04,250 they really haven't sold the jury and 1368 01:18:04,250 --> 01:18:06,133 it's not going to get any better for them from here. 1369 01:18:06,133 --> 01:18:08,966 -The '93 case, if they'd been able to try the '93 case, 1370 01:18:08,966 --> 01:18:10,883 I think Michael Jackson would be in a lot more trouble than he is here. 1371 01:18:10,883 --> 01:18:12,199 -We know that he molested other children. 1372 01:18:12,199 --> 01:18:15,649 -Oh yeah, He only paid them $25 million out of the goodness of his heart! 1373 01:18:15,649 --> 01:18:18,133 A pivotal day in the Michael Jackson trial: 1374 01:18:18,133 --> 01:18:20,533 the judge in this case is set to make a ruling today 1375 01:18:20,533 --> 01:18:23,933 if prosecutors can bring up previous child molestation 1376 01:18:23,933 --> 01:18:26,850 allegations against Michael Jackson. 1377 01:18:26,850 --> 01:18:31,050 One court observer calls these allegations the prosecution's "nuclear bomb". 1378 01:18:31,050 --> 01:18:34,050 It is official. The ruling that could make or break the case 1379 01:18:34,050 --> 01:18:36,600 against Michael Jackson has been handed down. 1380 01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:41,883 Jurors will hear about prior allegations of abuse by Michael Jackson. 1381 01:18:41,883 --> 01:18:43,449 The trial here will have mini-trial 1382 01:18:43,449 --> 01:18:45,933 after mini-trial as to other offenses. 1383 01:18:45,933 --> 01:18:49,199 It'll be significantly longer but it's significantly different 1384 01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:50,800 than what we had last week 1385 01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,733 or in the beginning of this trial up until last Friday. 1386 01:18:53,733 --> 01:18:56,083 This is now a trial about pattern evidence, 1387 01:18:56,083 --> 01:18:57,333 about propensity, 1388 01:18:57,333 --> 01:18:59,566 and once a pedophile, always a pedophile. 1389 01:19:11,899 --> 01:19:13,050 Alright, Ron? 1390 01:19:13,050 --> 01:19:13,933 I told you this was going to be admitted 1391 01:19:13,933 --> 01:19:16,100 and you kept telling me it's not going to be. 1392 01:19:17,449 --> 01:19:19,766 -Well Dan, I was still waiting for um 1393 01:19:19,766 --> 01:19:22,250 some accuser to want to testify in this case 1394 01:19:22,250 --> 01:19:24,100 and still, we're not getting any. 1395 01:19:24,100 --> 01:19:24,816 I think the prosecution- 1396 01:19:24,816 --> 01:19:25,699 You're getting one of them! 1397 01:19:25,699 --> 01:19:27,133 Well let me respond to that- 1398 01:19:27,133 --> 01:19:29,816 that kid was interviewed by Lauren Weiss, 1399 01:19:29,816 --> 01:19:31,533 who was a District Attorney in Los Angeles, 1400 01:19:31,533 --> 01:19:33,133 now a Superior Court Judge, 1401 01:19:33,133 --> 01:19:35,016 and she didn't think a crime had been committed, 1402 01:19:35,016 --> 01:19:37,250 and neither did the Santa Barbara Sherrifs 1403 01:19:37,250 --> 01:19:38,566 when they interviewed him, and, and 1404 01:19:38,566 --> 01:19:41,416 and nobody filed any charges at that time and 1405 01:19:41,416 --> 01:19:43,166 I think that it's going to be very suspect- 1406 01:19:43,166 --> 01:19:45,733 15 years after the fact coming into court. 1407 01:19:45,733 --> 01:19:47,766 He seemed like a sweet kid at first 1408 01:19:47,766 --> 01:19:51,616 but then after listening to some of his statements, 1409 01:19:51,616 --> 01:19:53,300 he contradicted himself. 1410 01:19:53,333 --> 01:19:58,533 The prosecutor stated before he testified that this would be the first time 1411 01:19:58,533 --> 01:20:00,899 that he had told the "story". 1412 01:20:00,899 --> 01:20:03,250 His credibility was like- it was horrible. 1413 01:20:03,250 --> 01:20:04,933 ...who testified 1414 01:20:04,933 --> 01:20:06,850 who said that Michael Jackson had been 1415 01:20:06,850 --> 01:20:09,300 playing with him and had gone too far and touched his 1416 01:20:09,300 --> 01:20:13,133 testicles, and he needed 5 years of therapy after it, and 1417 01:20:13,133 --> 01:20:15,766 during the first therapy session, the DA was present, 1418 01:20:15,766 --> 01:20:18,133 and he also admitted that he wanted money from him, 1419 01:20:18,133 --> 01:20:19,766 and his mother wanted money from Jackson, and 1420 01:20:19,766 --> 01:20:22,766 his mother went to a tabloid and sold a story as well 1421 01:20:22,766 --> 01:20:24,649 So you put all of that together, 1422 01:20:24,649 --> 01:20:26,616 and I submit that it helped us. 1423 01:20:39,899 --> 01:20:42,066 I, at that point, was 1424 01:20:42,066 --> 01:20:45,266 transferring out of the music business program 1425 01:20:45,266 --> 01:20:46,866 and into the school of individualized study 1426 01:20:46,866 --> 01:20:49,100 So I no longer had classes with Jordan, 1427 01:20:49,100 --> 01:20:52,416 and I I believe I wrote him an email 1428 01:20:52,416 --> 01:20:54,266 I'm not 100% sure that I sent it. 1429 01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:57,133 But if I did send it, I didn't get a response. 1430 01:20:57,133 --> 01:21:02,216 I was approached initially very shortly after the Neverland raid 1431 01:21:02,216 --> 01:21:05,933 by people who worked for the Jackson family 1432 01:21:05,933 --> 01:21:09,466 who knew of me because of message boards and 1433 01:21:09,466 --> 01:21:12,066 I was asked if I would give a statement, and I did, 1434 01:21:12,066 --> 01:21:14,933 and I subsequently ended up on the witness list, yes. 1435 01:21:14,933 --> 01:21:17,066 I mean there were certain members 1436 01:21:17,066 --> 01:21:19,466 of the Jackson entourage, I should say, 1437 01:21:19,466 --> 01:21:22,066 who wanted me to do a little bit of a media tour, which 1438 01:21:22,066 --> 01:21:23,866 I didn't feel comfortable doing, you know? 1439 01:21:23,866 --> 01:21:27,666 During that time, I was approached by Stacy Brown, 1440 01:21:27,666 --> 01:21:29,866 who is known by Jackson fans as somebody who 1441 01:21:29,866 --> 01:21:32,133 used to be very supportive of Michael Jackson 1442 01:21:32,133 --> 01:21:33,666 and was very good friends with Rebbie Jackson 1443 01:21:33,666 --> 01:21:37,183 who then flipped and became an 1444 01:21:37,183 --> 01:21:40,066 anti-Michael Jackson force in the tabloids, 1445 01:21:40,066 --> 01:21:42,533 but during our conversations when he would call me, 1446 01:21:42,533 --> 01:21:45,933 he was a very effusive in his praise of Michael and 1447 01:21:45,933 --> 01:21:49,266 he would urge me to sort of, I would say, 1448 01:21:49,266 --> 01:21:51,733 plump up my Jordan Chandler story, 1449 01:21:51,733 --> 01:21:53,466 which I never feel comfortable doing. 1450 01:21:53,466 --> 01:21:57,466 I only would say, you know exactly what I knew for a fact 1451 01:21:57,466 --> 01:21:59,933 But he'd even encouraged me to say that I was Jordan's 1452 01:21:59,933 --> 01:22:02,016 girlfriend or that Jordan had a crush on me or something like that, 1453 01:22:02,016 --> 01:22:06,066 and that was absolutely not true. 1454 01:22:06,066 --> 01:22:09,266 In retrospect, knowing how he turned on Michael, I 1455 01:22:09,266 --> 01:22:12,666 I feel like he did it as like a pre-emptive way to discredit me, 1456 01:22:12,666 --> 01:22:14,733 you know, because if I were to lie about that, 1457 01:22:14,733 --> 01:22:16,266 it would discredit my entire story. 1458 01:22:16,266 --> 01:22:18,266 But I of course was never willing to do that, 1459 01:22:18,266 --> 01:22:19,933 and I take this very seriously. 1460 01:22:19,933 --> 01:22:22,933 I firmly believe in due process and you know, 1461 01:22:22,933 --> 01:22:25,533 it certainly wouldn't have won me any favors 1462 01:22:25,533 --> 01:22:30,266 industrywide to testify in his trial and that's something 1463 01:22:30,266 --> 01:22:32,500 that perhaps I was a little naive about as a kid, 1464 01:22:32,500 --> 01:22:34,333 but now as somebody who's worked in the industry, 1465 01:22:34,333 --> 01:22:35,933 I understand how things work. 1466 01:22:35,933 --> 01:22:38,866 I don't think I understood the enormity at that time. 1467 01:22:38,866 --> 01:22:41,733 All I knew was that this was somebody whose 1468 01:22:41,733 --> 01:22:43,333 life and livelihood was on the line 1469 01:22:43,333 --> 01:22:47,066 and I had information that could potentially help him. 1470 01:22:47,066 --> 01:22:49,533 So I felt it was my obligation in my duty. 1471 01:22:49,533 --> 01:22:55,466 His name wasn't widely known and from my discussions in the program, 1472 01:22:55,466 --> 01:22:57,666 I don't think that there was really anybody else 1473 01:22:57,666 --> 01:23:01,016 other than a very few people who knew who he was, um, 1474 01:23:01,016 --> 01:23:02,699 that they don't even know is relevant. 1475 01:23:02,699 --> 01:23:04,783 No, this doesn't benefit my career at all. 1476 01:23:04,783 --> 01:23:07,899 This doesn't give me access to anything. I'm very much 1477 01:23:07,899 --> 01:23:09,666 somebody who likes to be in the background 1478 01:23:09,666 --> 01:23:12,133 That's why I do PR and publicity. 1479 01:23:12,133 --> 01:23:15,733 I want my clients to be in the spotlight, but I, myself, 1480 01:23:15,733 --> 01:23:19,583 you know, I kind of- would prefer to hide 1481 01:23:19,583 --> 01:23:22,616 but I'm speaking out because you asked me to 1482 01:23:22,616 --> 01:23:25,866 and because all of this nonsense is being rehashed and 1483 01:23:25,866 --> 01:23:29,466 relitigated in the media, and it's ridiculous, you know? 1484 01:23:29,466 --> 01:23:33,266 I understand that people would be skeptical of my story 1485 01:23:33,266 --> 01:23:36,783 because I am a fan and I don't hide that I'm a fan but 1486 01:23:36,783 --> 01:23:38,733 the fact of the matter is 1487 01:23:38,733 --> 01:23:41,866 you know if I had even the slightest doubt 1488 01:23:41,866 --> 01:23:44,533 that Michael Jackson was innocent, 1489 01:23:44,533 --> 01:23:46,533 I wouldn't be speaking out. I heard directly 1490 01:23:46,533 --> 01:23:48,216 from Jordan Chandler that he didn't believe 1491 01:23:48,216 --> 01:23:49,666 that Michael Jackson was capable of the things 1492 01:23:49,666 --> 01:23:51,333 he was being accused of. 1493 01:23:51,333 --> 01:23:53,266 And that's very powerful. 1494 01:23:53,266 --> 01:23:55,133 You know, every allegation since is built 1495 01:23:55,133 --> 01:23:57,666 upon the original 1993 allegation 1496 01:23:57,666 --> 01:24:01,416 and I believe that if that one is false, 1497 01:24:01,416 --> 01:24:03,733 which I do believe it is false, 1498 01:24:03,733 --> 01:24:05,466 all the rest crumble.