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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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[ringing tone]
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[rustling against microphone]
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[voicemail beeps]
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[Ashraf Marwan over phone] Hello. Hi.
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Hello. About your book,
if you could call me back...
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00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,240
on my mobile. Thank you.
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[hangs up]
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[ringing tone]
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[voicemail beeps]
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[man] Please, hello, can you call me?
It's about your book.
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-Thank you.
-[hangs up]
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[ringing tone, voicemail beeps]
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[man] Hello, hi, good afternoon.
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If you can call me,
I'm the subject of your book.
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-Thank you.
-[hangs up]
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[Dr. Ahron Bregman]
At around one o'clock, Ashraf Marwan,
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an Egyptian super spy...
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fell off the balcony...
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in Carlton Terrace,
Central London.
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The medics were directed
to a small rose garden,
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he uttered a few words and he died.
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When I was told,
my mind was racing.
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I asked myself, "Was he pushed?"
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"Did he jump?"
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The rumor was, especially in Egypt,
that it was not an accident.
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It was a murder.
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1948, in Palestine,
Jews declared the State of Israel.
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Over the next day,
Egypt and the Arab neighbors invaded.
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[bomb explodes]
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[crowd clamoring]
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So, for years, Israel and Egypt
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hated each other.
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And Ashraf Marwan was one
of the greatest modern spies
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at the center of the conflict.
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[indistinct chatter]
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Ironically Israel regarded
Marwan as their best agent ever.
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He was the number one
source of Israeli intelligence.
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Few agents in history provided such...
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splendid information.
Out of this world.
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[Dr. Bregman] His death is a mystery.
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The rumor was it was a murder,
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and just the day before he told me
that he feared for his life,
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but who did it?
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The Egyptian intelligence
killed Ashraf Marwan,
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because he was a traitor.
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The Israelis believe
that he was their man,
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but he tricked the Israelis
into taking him seriously.
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He served Egypt well.
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Ashraf Marwan's wife, Mona,
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she thought that he may have
been murdered by the Israelis.
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And when I think about it now,
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I'm still asking myself,
"Was I responsible?"
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I was the one who
unmasked him to the world.
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[church bells ringing]
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[Rajeev Syal]
In 2007, June 27th, I got a phone call
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about the mysterious death
that had happened just hours earlier.
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Of course, I'm intrigued.
Who wouldn't be?
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And as a journalist I wanted
to get to the bottom of it.
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The most pressing, immediate issue
was how did he die?
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Was it murder? Suicide?
Was it an accident?
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So, this is the place
from which he fell.
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He fell five floors down.
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The family insisted that he
had a whole set of plans,
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family functions to attend,
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he had a business
meeting on that very day
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in that building there.
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That's why the family believes
that there was just no truth
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to rumors that he could
have killed himself.
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I wanted to get to the truth,
but that turned out to be
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a lot trickier than
I first imagined.
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[Dr. Bregman] Well, the day he died,
I was waiting for him to phone.
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I thought that something is
wrong with the reception.
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So, I went up the stairs to see
whether or not he left me a message.
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But nothing.
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I have always been interested
in Middle Eastern wars.
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When I was in the
military it was known
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there was a super spy who worked
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with Israel's secret
intelligence service.
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But the Israeli military
censorship made sure
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that nothing is written about it.
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A great secret.
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[female reporter] Six Arabs killed here
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-in the West Bank, seven in Gaza.
-[soldiers shouting indistinctly]
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[Dr. Bregman] When the Palestinian
uprising of 1987 started...
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[men shouting in foreign language]
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...it was a turning point for me.
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I saw Israeli soldiers
beating a Palestinian.
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I said, "This is madness.
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You are inflicting on the Palestinians
the same pain
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that other nations have
inflicted on the Jews,
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and I'm not coming back until
the violence has stopped."
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"Big deal, Ahron Bregman
is not coming back..."
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And I'd emigrate to the UK.
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After I finished my PhD
on the Arab-Israeli conflict,
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I joined the Department of War Studies
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at King's College London.
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Have we discussed the
spy here in class or not?
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Was it mentioned?
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-[female student] Yeah, no.
-[Dr. Bregman] Right.
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[Dr. Bregman] And I've published six books
you know nothing about...
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It's a joke. Don't use it.
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-[Tommy laughs] I'm using that.
-[chuckles]
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In 1998, I was a consultant
on a major documentary,
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and I interviewed the director
of Military Intelligence
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in Israel, General Eli Zeira.
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When we finished the interview,
we were standing
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in the corridor,
and what he said to me there
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changed everything for me.
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He said that the Mossad's
top spy was a double agent.
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I was shocked to the core.
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[Tommy] What were the implications
of the spy being a double?
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[Dr. Bregman] If he was a double agent
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during one of the most important wars
in Middle Eastern history,
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then all the intelligence
the Israeli's based their decisions on
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would be cast into doubt.
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-[indistinct chatter]
-[man singing in Arabic]
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Israel is dependent on her intelligence.
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They have to get it right always,
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and if their best spy misled them,
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it will just ruin the reputation.
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Therefore, the intelligence service...
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[Tommy] Okay, Amos.
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[Dr. Bregman] ...they have an interest...
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[Tommy] What was at risk?
What was at stake?
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[Dr. Bregman]
...in keeping the story intact.
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[Tommy] It's a sensitive subject.
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The young Bregman was uber-motivated.
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A scoop like this was something
I'd always dreamt about,
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but then I thought it might be
a very dangerous game.
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[button clicks on camera]
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[tape whirs]
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[button clicks on camera]
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[Amos Gilboa] Ashraf Marwan was...
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the son of an army general,
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and people see in that
a sign of social seniority.
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He graduated in chemistry.
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At the same time...
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he met Mona,
daughter of Gamal Abdel Nasser...
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President in Egypt.
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They fell in love.
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He knew how...
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to jump to the good bed.
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He married the daughter of Nasser.
The almighty Nasser.
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Nasser was like God for the Arabs.
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Idol.
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Nasser.
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[crowd cheering]
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1967, this was a crisis moment for Nasser.
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Israel crippled the Egyptian Air Force
on the ground.
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And then, Egypt lost the Sinai Peninsula.
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Egypt felt disbelief that this
could happen to us.
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[indistinct chatter]
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It was a dent in the dignity
of the country,
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and the process of rebuilding
the army started
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for one objective, launching a war,
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regaining the Sinai,
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and regaining the sense of pride
which every Egyptian felt...
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before 1967.
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[Hazem Kandil] Marwan entered
into the Nasser family
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at this moment of crisis.
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[Yossi Melman] He wants to be important,
but Nasser didn't entrust
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into him the kind of missions
that Ashraf Marwan believed,
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"Now when I marry into the family
I'll get them."
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[Abdallah Homouda]
Nasser, he felt that this guy
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did not want to marry the girl
for her personality,
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he wanted to marry the daughter
of the President.
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So, Nasser gave Ashraf Marwan
a junior position in the presidency.
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It was like when you have
adversary politician,
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you bring him close to keep him
under your eye,
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rather than leave him free
to wreak havoc.
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Ashraf felt in a way demeaned, punished,
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and made him resent Nasser.
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So, he came to London with his new wife.
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But reports back home...
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indicated that he was loving
an expensive lifestyle,
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nightclubs,
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00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,080
restaurants,
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00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,400
living beyond the means...
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00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,360
of the ordinary Egyptians.
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[Dr. Kandil]
Nasser lived a very frugal life
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and he felt that it was
highly embarrassing.
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Nasser shunted them back to Cairo.
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Ashraf felt that he was handcuffed
with Nasser.
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[Dr. Bregman] So, he wants
to take revenge on his father-in-law.
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[cameras clicking]
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[male reporter] Israel leaders
call it a total destruction
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of Egypt's Sinai forces.
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00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,440
[Shabtai Shavit] Immediately after
the Six-Day War of '67...
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00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,360
the issue of a possible war
down the road with Egypt...
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was the number one priority of the Mossad.
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[speaking indistinctly]
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[David Arbel]
Every country, every government
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has to deal with the intentions
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00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,680
of our enemies,
and the more you know about it,
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the better you can prevent a war.
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00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,000
[indistinct chatter]
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00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:51,480
So, military intelligence for the Mossad
was very, very important.
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00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,440
[Amos Gilboa]
The Mossad is responsible for...
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00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,440
collection and special operations.
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00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,680
[automatic gunfire]
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00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,000
-[explosion]
-[glass shatters]
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00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,680
[men clamoring]
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00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,360
[silenced pistol firing]
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00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:22,000
This is not the CIA.
CIA deals with all the world.
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00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,320
He has agent in South America,
in Africa,
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maybe in the Northern Pole,
I don't know.
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Ev-- All around the world.
Here, in Israel, it is focused.
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00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,600
The arch enemies.
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00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:42,560
[explosion]
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00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,160
[gunfire]
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00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,360
[Tommy] Can you describe for me
your job, your role,
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00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:48,760
when you were working in the field?
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00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,280
No, I prefer not.
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[Shabtai Shavit] So, '67, at that moment,
we started to look for intelligence
217
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,280
that would either support, or...
218
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,480
or the opposite, the issue of war
down the road with Egypt.
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00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,240
[children shouting playfully]
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00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,040
[Tommy] Did you have any concerns
about the possible implications
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00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,000
of unmasking a spy?
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00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,880
Look, Tom, the Mossad
could be very dangerous
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00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:48,080
and unmasking one of the spies
could have endangered me,
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00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,600
but I had to know.
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00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,720
It was a risk, it was a gamble.
I am a bit reckless.
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00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,440
[Tommy] What did your wife
have to say about all this?
227
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,960
I knew that she would be unhappy...
228
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,520
to see me involved in such a thing.
229
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,720
She was much more responsible
and less reckless than me,
230
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,080
so I told her nothing
of my spy games.
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00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,800
I poured over hundreds
of articles and books
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00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,480
looking for clues to see who he was.
233
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,120
And I read anything that
I could put my hands on.
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00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,880
And then a key book
came into my hand,
235
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,560
which is the biography of Eli Zeira,
236
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,280
the man who said to me that
there was a double agent
237
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,520
who misled the Mossad.
238
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,280
Zeira writes about
an unnamed spy,
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00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,920
and then he mentioned three people
240
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,560
who were sitting in a meeting in Riyadh.
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00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,440
King Faisal of Saudi Arabia.
242
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,160
-Sadat and a third man.
-[camera clicks]
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00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,960
I was very suspicious
when Zeira did not mention
244
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,080
the name of the third man
in a chapter
245
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,480
where it's all about the spy.
And you ask yourself
246
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,160
"Why is it missing?"
247
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,680
[Tommy]
So, the fact that it was missing...
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00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,360
-[Dr. Bregman] Yeah, exactly.
-The fact that there was
249
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,080
-a missing piece of information...
-[Dr. Bregman] It was--
250
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,400
It was an editing thing, you see?
251
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,160
-"Why is it missing?"
-[Tommy] Mm.
252
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,440
[Dr. Bregman] So, maybe the name
is not mentioned
253
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,640
because someone is
trying to hide the name.
254
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,840
But there is a reference,
Robinson, page 136.
255
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:52,400
136. And here is the third man,
Dr Ashraf Marwan.
256
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,400
When I saw it all my red lights
started flashing.
257
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,560
My gut was telling me
258
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,960
that his name was significant,
Ashraf Marwan.
259
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:10,520
It was an educated guess.
260
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,360
[motorbike accelerating]
261
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,120
And I sent a fax to Zeira,
262
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,120
hoping that he would react
and confirm the name.
263
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:29,240
I took a punt, but his reply was,
264
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:31,880
"I will not reveal."
265
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,640
And this was a setback.
266
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,880
[camera whirring]
267
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,640
But I wonder if
there was something
268
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,480
in the fact Zeira did not deny,
269
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,480
so I thought that maybe
I am on the right track.
270
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,760
[male reporter]
...and refused to negotiate
271
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,280
until they were removed.
272
00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:04,880
This was the position when
the Arab world was dealt a blow
273
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,440
-from which it's still reeling.
-[men chanting]
274
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,560
[male reporter 2] Now the explosive
situation in the Middle East
275
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,920
has been further complicated
276
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,080
by the unexpected death of
Egypt's President Nasser.
277
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,280
This man, Anwar Sadat,
took over as president-elect.
278
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,240
[speaking Arabic]
I swear by Almighty God to uphold...
279
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,120
[applause]
280
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,360
[Amos Gilboa] The big bosses
under the Nasser regime...
281
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,280
they were...
282
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,920
unsatisfied with Sadat.
283
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,560
-[indistinct chatter]
-There was a kind of rebellion...
284
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,680
[film camera whirring]
285
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:43,720
...and...
286
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,640
Ashraf was very cunning, smart.
287
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,000
Somehow Marwan got his hands
on an archive...
288
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,720
and turned it over to Sadat,
289
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,440
and Sadat used some of
the information in that archive
290
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,400
to put his enemies on trial.
291
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,360
[speaking Arabic] Something personal?
Or of a public nature?
292
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,360
[speaking Arabic]
The truth is in the court's hands.
293
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,920
[Dr. Kandil] It was very consequential
294
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,400
in Marwan's future
career to prove to Sadat
295
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,360
that his loyalty to
him can come at a price
296
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,280
of stabbing in the back
Nasser's closest aids.
297
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,920
[speaking Arabic]
We must make it clear to the public.
298
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,240
[arguing indistinctly]
299
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,440
[Amos Gilboa] And Sadat rewarded him.
He appointed Ashraf to be...
300
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,640
the secretary of the Presidential Office.
301
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,080
[plane decelerating]
302
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,360
[indistinct chatter]
303
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,160
[Dr. Kandil] He was part
of Sadat's inner circle.
304
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,040
-[indistinct chatter]
-[camera clicks]
305
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,640
[Abdallah Hamouda]
At the time, he was not 30 yet,
306
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,680
and that is the youngest man
in the job ever.
307
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,480
But knowing Ashraf Marwan,
every step is calculated
308
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,040
to build for what comes after.
309
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,240
[Dr. Bregman] I was pretty sure
Ashraf Marwan was the spy,
310
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,480
but I needed a conformation.
311
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:33,920
So, I thought that perhaps
the editor of Zeira's book,
312
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,200
Rami Tali, could help
with the name of this spy.
313
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,000
[car horns honking]
314
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:45,160
Obviously, the editor discussed
the matter with Zeira,
315
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,240
so I devised a plan.
316
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,520
I then took a flight to Tel Aviv.
317
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,440
[indistinct chatter]
318
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,640
[Rami Tali] Ronnie Bregman,
he wanted to make sure
319
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,400
that he has the right name.
320
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,680
I knew the name,
321
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,360
but I told him, "Ronnie,
322
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,800
I don't know the name,
but if I knew it I would not tell you."
323
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,040
"I don't know the name,"
"Don't make me..."
324
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,000
This was how it was done.
325
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,080
Ten minutes into the conversation
when he was warmed up,
326
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:29,960
but not yet tired of me,
I looked him straight in the eye.
327
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:31,600
And Ronnie said...
328
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,520
"I know the name of the super spy."
329
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,200
And I said, "Good for you,"
and he said...
330
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,360
Ashraf Marwan was the super spy.
331
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,560
I was taken aback.
332
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,960
His response was unmistakable.
333
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,440
As far as I remember,
I did not acknowledge it.
334
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,560
He looked away and smiled.
335
00:23:59,040 --> 00:23:59,880
Bingo.
336
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,800
How do you say the English saying?
337
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,480
That butter would not melt in my mouth.
338
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,520
Butter very much melts in my mouth.
339
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,680
So, uh, when he approached me
with the name...
340
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,280
[muttering indistinctly] Yeah,
341
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,800
it was some kind of an acknowledgement.
342
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,400
[Dr. Bregman]
I returned to London a happy man.
343
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,520
I had the name.
344
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,760
I was delighted, really.
345
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:30,840
Celebrating.
346
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,720
But I had to confirm
that he was a double agent.
347
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,240
[Tommy] Okay, so how did the Mossad
get involved with Ashraf Marwan?
348
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,880
He was a walk-in.
349
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:52,160
[laughs]
350
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,840
[car horns honking]
351
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,000
[Yossi Melman] One day in London,
352
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,560
he decided to call the Israeli embassy.
353
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,760
This is how moments
in history are made.
354
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,560
They are made out of pure luck,
because when he called the embassy,
355
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,960
luckily enough,
the head of Mossad stations in Europe,
356
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,880
Shmuel Goren, was visiting the station.
357
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:30,640
[speaking Hebrew]
I was the head of Mossad in Europe.
358
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,480
Somebody called.
359
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,600
As soon as I heard the name,
it immediately rang a bell,
360
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,840
but I said, "No, it cannot be
361
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,520
that someone like him would come to us.”
362
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,400
[Tommy] When recruiting a new agent,
363
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,640
what are the risks to you, to the Mossad?
364
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,440
To the Mossad, first that
he might be a double agent.
365
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,720
Number two, he's a liar.
366
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,200
And number three is that
he can surrender you,
367
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,040
which is very dangerous.
368
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,080
But being an intelligence officer,
if you are not...
369
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,000
suspicious as part of your
culture and character,
370
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,280
you stand a fair chance not
to be a successful intelligence officer.
371
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,640
And in the case of walk-ins,
372
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,560
it is even more important
to be suspicious.
373
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,160
But he said, "The son-in-law
of the Egyptian president is a walk-in?
374
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,000
We cannot miss that opportunity."
375
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,760
[Shmuel Goren] It was a gamble,
376
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,480
because the difference
in cases like these...
377
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,720
is between receiving the Medal of Honor
or facing disgrace.
378
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,080
So, we improvised...
379
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,720
against the official protocol.
380
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,120
And we scheduled the meeting
at the hotel that same day.
381
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,400
The conversation was short.
382
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:11,000
He gave us authentic minutes
from meetings in Moscow...
383
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,960
with the most high-ranking
Russian officials
384
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,640
and the most high-ranking
Egyptian officials.
385
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:24,560
To be a fly on the wall
in these kinds of meetings
386
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,160
is the dream of any intelligence agent.
387
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,520
My task was to go over the material
he provided,
388
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,480
and we couldn't find anything
389
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,520
which gave us any doubt
about his credibility.
390
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,000
[Tommy] Okay, so what exactly
did you do to be certain?
391
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,640
Listen, there's no point to...
392
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,320
to... get into all the details, but...
393
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,360
there was no one,
394
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,360
or no one case, where anybody said,
explicitly,
395
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,880
in a very determined way,
that he was not authentic.
396
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,120
[Tommy] Why would Marwan,
now that Nasser was gone,
397
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,280
and his ambition was being fulfilled,
he was the right-hand man
398
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:18,320
-of the president...
-Yeah.
399
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,160
Why would he want to sell secrets
to Israel?
400
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,960
Why did he do it?
401
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,680
To feel important,
maybe to take revenge
402
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,440
on his father-in-law,
and thirdly, financial reward.
403
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:41,240
All in all, the Mossad paid him $1 million
in the '70s, early '70s.
404
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,480
It's a huge amount of money.
405
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,560
[cameras clicking]
406
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,880
[Tommy] Everything the Israelis say
407
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,280
suggests it was resentment
towards Nasser,
408
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,720
hubris, money...
And that doesn't add up to me.
409
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,560
You have to look at
the Ashraf Marwan angle.
410
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,000
"I am a big shot."
411
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,560
[Tommy] How did Marwan
spying for you work exactly?
412
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,200
[cameras clicking]
413
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,800
[David Arbel] He accompanied Sadat...
414
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,640
to meetings with leaders.
415
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,360
[film camera whirring]
416
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:22,680
-[camera clicks]
-[laughter]
417
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,240
He listened and was able to give us
the inside information.
418
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,240
[Dr. Bregman]
When the Mossad met with Marwan,
419
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,320
the meeting, it take place in London.
420
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,880
Marwan would provide
his documents.
421
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,320
[intercom buzzes]
422
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,520
He would get his money,
then he would leave first...
423
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,960
and the Israeli will leave after him.
424
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,640
[Tommy] What was so valuable
about the information he gave you?
425
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,960
The most important pieces of information
which Ashraf Marwan gave Israel...
426
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,160
He brought the order of battle
of the Egyptian Army.
427
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,520
It means that Israel would know
how Egypt were going to strike.
428
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,240
And they would attack us only if
429
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,320
they have enough air cover
provided by the Russians.
430
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,840
[Shmuel Goren speaking Hebrew]
It is very rare material.
431
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,800
It was, in my opinion, an earthquake.
432
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,320
It was...
433
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,240
beautiful.
434
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,920
Beautiful. Really.
435
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,480
[indistinct chatter]
436
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,760
[Rajeev Syal] I tried to piece together
what happened to Ashraf Marwan.
437
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,160
Was it murder?
438
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,160
Was it suicide?
439
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,240
It is very interesting to be here.
440
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:30,320
He was on this balcony here
and he landed in these bushes.
441
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,720
The family had always said
that the trajectory of his fall
442
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,040
was such that he fell
away from the building
443
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,360
to such an extent that
he must have been thrown.
444
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,720
You can only really see it
when you're in the garden.
445
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,480
You can start to see why
the family were arguing
446
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,600
it was bizarre
447
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,920
that he landed several feet out
into these bushes.
448
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:03,120
And when I spoke to Ashraf Marwan's wife,
449
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,840
Mona, she thought that he may have
been murdered by the Israelis.
450
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,680
Based on this information,
it was difficult to believe
451
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,440
that he had just fallen
out as part of an accident.
452
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,400
[Dr. Bregman] I gathered a huge amount
of data during my research.
453
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,840
This is Eli Zeira
when he was young.
454
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,720
He was a good-looking man
and very clever.
455
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,840
Very clever.
456
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,240
I had the head of Israeli
Military Intelligence telling me
457
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,760
this spy was a double agent.
458
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,120
This could only make Israel
intelligence look bad,
459
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,240
so I had to take notice of it.
460
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,200
And then I uncovered something big
behind the meetings in London.
461
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:02,920
Marwan was reckless,
462
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,440
he would just do stupid things,
take chances.
463
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,440
[dial tone]
464
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,760
He would phone the Israelis,
the embassy, directly.
465
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Ignoring the careful system
whereby you should phone them indirectly
466
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,560
using a third party, a lady in London.
467
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,600
Of course, all of the lines
468
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,160
could have been taped
by other agencies, by the MI6.
469
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,000
And he would arrive in meetings
470
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,880
driving the car of the
Egyptian Embassy in London.
471
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:42,000
The fact that Marwan was so
confident to do such things
472
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,360
in the open perhaps points
to the fact that he knew
473
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,720
that it's okay, he was a double agent
474
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,360
and the Egyptians will accept it.
475
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,880
So, my conclusion is that
General Eli Zeira was correct.
476
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,280
The spy was a double agent.
477
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,920
[Tommy]
Ronnie, I've spoken to the Mossad
478
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,920
and what they are telling me
is pretty compelling.
479
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,840
[Dr. Bregman]
I think that Ashraf Marwan
480
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,280
was not the person
the Israelis thought he was.
481
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,160
[button clicks on camera]
482
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,320
[tape whirs]
483
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:53,520
[Tommy] Okay for sound?
484
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,320
Ready?
485
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:56,440
Yeah.
486
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,560
[Tommy] Abdallah, Israel believe
Ashraf gave them everything.
487
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:02,640
Good for them.
488
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,520
Ashraf Marwan, I believe that
he served Egypt well.
489
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,640
He did it under instructions from Sadat,
490
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,480
he did not do it out of his own free will.
491
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,680
Albeit, he was prepared to play
the dangerous game.
492
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,920
When Sadat became president of Egypt,
his first priority
493
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,840
was to get back the lands
Egypt lost in 1967.
494
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,440
[praying in Arabic]
495
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,840
[Abdallah Hamouda] It was
a holistic movement within the country,
496
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,120
everyone coming together
for one objective,
497
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:59,160
launching a war, regaining the Sinai,
revitalizing the Arab world,
498
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,080
and creating a new spirit
for the future.
499
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,320
[imam preaching in Arabic]
500
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,800
But knowing that the Israelis had
501
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,680
weapons from the United States
and western countries,
502
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,440
it had to have some cunning in the plan.
503
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,400
[imam singing]
504
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,680
And Sadat has played this
in the most perfect way.
505
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,600
[indistinct chatter]
506
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,040
Sadat wanted a very convincing agent
507
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,880
to feed information to the Israelis.
508
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:37,920
And...
509
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,880
Ashraf Marwan was the best actor
to play the part.
510
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,600
[imam preaching in Arabic]
511
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:46,760
[indistinct chatter]
512
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:53,400
Everything was, like, stage-managed
to the highest possible standard.
513
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,400
[indistinct chatter]
514
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,520
They studied very well
the Israeli mentality
515
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,360
to create the image to fool the Israelis.
516
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,000
And he did not go to them on his knees.
517
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,600
He went to them full of himself.
518
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,080
The Ashraf Marwan angle...
519
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,920
a playboy, fun-loving
with a sense of pride.
520
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,360
"I am a big shot."
521
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,600
And he was very successful
in convincing them
522
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,840
that he is serious about working for them.
523
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:37,360
Ashraf Marwan supplied the Israelis with
the Egyptian preparations for the war,
524
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,800
but not complete,
525
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,040
but the Israelis were very happy with
what he gave them.
526
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,880
So, he was accepted.
527
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:48,680
[Shmuel Goren speaking Hebrew]
The information we got
528
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200
comes along once in a hundred years.
529
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,040
And they call him the--
"the agent of the century."
530
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,880
All under instructions from Sadat.
531
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,840
[Tommy]
There's this double agent theory
532
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,280
and I would like your opinion.
533
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,480
[speaking Hebrew]
No other country in the world
534
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,720
would allow this kind of material
to fall into the hands of their enemies.
535
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,920
He's a traitor.
536
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,920
He's just a simple traitor.
537
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,040
That's it.
538
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,440
[Tommy] How did the information
Marwan gave you
539
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:30,720
influence your thinking?
540
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:32,200
[cameras clicking]
541
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,520
[Shabtai Shavit] Marwan, he reported
one of the conditions for going to war...
542
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,000
was long-range bombers.
543
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,320
And the Russians,
they hesitated to provide
544
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,160
the Egyptians deep bombing capabilities.
545
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,720
So, the Israeli evaluators
of the intelligence
546
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,880
were in the notion that
they are not going to fight us.
547
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,360
The underlying message
of all the information
548
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,480
given by Marwan
was that Egypt will not attack
549
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,800
before she got certain weapons.
550
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,520
[indistinct chatter]
551
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,440
But what the Israelis didn't know...
552
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,200
was that Sadat decided
to go to war against them...
553
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,680
even without the weapons.
554
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,560
What Sadat needed
was to surprise the Israelis,
555
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,120
to catch them unprepared.
556
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,720
The key issue was how
to surprise the Israelis.
557
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,600
And Egypt felt the right time
558
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,720
is to attack them on Yom Kippur,
559
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,640
which is a holy day in Israel,
560
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,320
when the Israelis
don't listen to the radio,
561
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,000
television is off.
562
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,800
They are just insulated in the synagogues
and in the houses.
563
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,680
[birds tweeting]
564
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,120
[Abdallah Hamouda]
On the 6th of October, 1973,
565
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:21,880
the Egyptian units on the ground
were told, "Now!"
566
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,120
[explosions, water crashing]
567
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,000
[Dr. Bregman] 100,000 Egyptian troops
568
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,320
start crossing the Suez Canal.
569
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,600
[speaking Arabic] Shoot!
570
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,160
Igniting their spirit
and mind and a will to win.
571
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,240
[shouting indistinctly, cheering]
572
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:44,560
[Dr. Bregman] On the other side,
573
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,800
-there are only 452 Israeli soldiers.
-[gunfire]
574
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,640
The Israelis are caught
unprepared, off-balanced.
575
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,440
[helicopter flying overhead]
576
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,320
[male reporter]
It did succeed in crushing the myth
577
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,400
of Israel's invincibility,
and the first Israeli surrenders
578
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,160
were moments of rare triumph
for the Egyptian commanders.
579
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,840
The Egyptian surprise was very successful.
580
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,320
-[indistinct chatter]
-[grunts]
581
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,120
[cameraman speaking Arabic]
Just like that...
582
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,080
[engine accelerating]
583
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,560
[car horns blaring]
584
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,840
The synagogue was full of people
all around here.
585
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,960
We started seeing traffic on the streets.
586
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,800
The army came.
587
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,440
People were simply taken
onto the army vehicles.
588
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,520
I can tell you, it was all chaos.
589
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:13,720
[knuckles crack]
590
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,720
[exhales]
591
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,000
I was mobilized, recruited...
592
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,240
then I headed to Sinai.
593
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,600
We believed that the
Israeli army is invincible
594
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,320
and the Arabs are inferior,
595
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,080
and that it would be
a stroll in the park,
596
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,600
but we realized that,
actually, it's not a joke.
597
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,480
[tank gun fires]
598
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:41,680
[tank tracks squeaking]
599
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,200
[gun turret whirring]
600
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,400
[fighter jets soaring]
601
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,080
-[mounted gun firing]
-[heavy artillery firing]
602
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,720
[man panting]
603
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,840
We were bombarded from the air,
604
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,520
we were bombarded from the land.
605
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,320
[automatic gunfire]
606
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,240
[gun turret whirring]
607
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:09,720
[screaming]
608
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,560
We fought almost face-to-face
with Egyptian soldiers.
609
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,120
They were good fighters.
610
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,440
I saw people dying around me.
I was frightened all the time.
611
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:25,960
You think that this is the end.
612
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,680
[Amos Gilboa]
They took five kilometers of Sinai,
613
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,120
and they dug in,
614
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,040
and they rebuffed everything.
615
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,960
[David Arbel]
And actually, our defense minister, Dayan,
616
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,520
came out on television
and talked to the nation,
617
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:09,120
and explained to us that
the situation is bad indeed.
618
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,680
[speaking Hebrew] The war is difficult.
619
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,560
Very harsh collisions,
on the ground and in the sky.
620
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,240
He looked down and said...
621
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,560
[speaking Hebrew]
And we are fighting for our lives.
622
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:30,840
Us, fighting for our life?
We were the heroes in 1967.
623
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,480
What happened now?
624
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,200
So, him on television
was a difficult moment in Israel.
625
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,800
[soldiers chanting in Arabic]
626
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,080
[Abdallah Homouda]
When the war was over...
627
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:48,680
[crowd cheering]
628
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,680
...the Egyptian people
were extremely happy.
629
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,240
-[applause]
-[cameras clicking]
630
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,560
[cheering]
631
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,240
Can I tell you something
which not many people know?
632
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,720
During the 1973 war days,
633
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,000
the rate of crime dwindled to zero.
634
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,960
-There was no crime.
-[cheering]
635
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,400
No offence at all, everyone...
united with everyone.
636
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,320
The one goal they had was
637
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,720
to regain their sense of pride
and dignity.
638
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,040
[cheering]
639
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:31,800
Ashraf Marwan...
640
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:32,920
[camera clicks]
641
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:38,160
...he enabled Egypt to gain
the surprise advantage.
642
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,840
[Tommy] The Egyptians are adamant they
got the jump on you in '73,
643
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,160
because Ashraf Marwan misled you.
644
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:53,320
But it's just the opposite,
he didn't-- they didn't surprise us.
645
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,880
They gave us an early alert.
646
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:57,920
[button clicks on camera]
647
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,520
[tape whirring, button clicks]
648
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:09,720
[Shabtai Shavit] Before the war...
649
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:11,960
Ashraf Marwan,
650
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:14,600
he asked for a meeting,
651
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,920
gave the code word: "chemicals."
652
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,120
And he told him,
"Tomorrow, I'll be in London.
653
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,480
I want Zvika Zamir,
654
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,680
the director of the Mossad, to come."
655
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,680
-[Big Ben chiming]
-The meeting took place at about
656
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,000
ten o'clock p.m.
657
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,520
Zvika sat scribbling the essence
of the story.
658
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,160
[Yossi Melman] Ashraf Marwan, he said,
659
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,680
"Tomorrow the war
would be at sunset."
660
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,440
[Shabtai Shavit] Zvika,
661
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,560
he sent the early warning
to his personal assistant.
662
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,600
-It was disseminated to the...
-[intercom buzzing]
663
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,200
...director of Military Intelligence.
664
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,680
[Amos Galboa]
We could prepare ourselves...
665
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,240
for the attack.
666
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,560
Ashraf, he gave the plan!
667
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,120
[chuckles]
668
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:24,480
[button clicks on camera]
669
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,320
[Tommy] Wait a second...
670
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,560
Ashraf said the war would start at sunset,
and yet the surprise attack was at two...
671
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:34,000
Wasn't that misleading?
672
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,160
[stutters] I'll answer it!
673
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,920
See, I saw the full report.
674
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,080
[tape whirring]
675
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:43,200
[button clicks on camera]
676
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,520
The Syrians,
677
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,720
they wanted the attack to be
in the morning.
678
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:51,440
[indistinct chatter]
679
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,280
On October the 2nd,
the Egyptian minister of war
680
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:56,960
reached a compromise.
681
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,320
"Okay...
682
00:47:58,480 --> 00:47:59,920
not sunset,
683
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,960
ten minutes to two o'clock, afternoon."
684
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,640
Marwan,
he didn't know about the change.
685
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,680
Because he was not in Egypt.
He went on a mission.
686
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,920
[Dr. Bregman] There are those who say
that Marwan did not know
687
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,440
that war starts
four hours earlier.
688
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,640
I don't buy it, I think
that he was just too close...
689
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,480
[tape whirring, button clicks]
690
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,000
...to the leadership not
to know such facts.
691
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,200
[button clicks]
692
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,680
The fact that he said that
it will start at sunset
693
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,680
was the climax of him misleading
the Mossad and Israel.
694
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,600
But Mossad agents have
a very clear motivation
695
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,600
to tell the world
that he was genuine.
696
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:54,880
[chuckles]
697
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,880
So, I was convinced Ashraf
Marwan misled the Israelis.
698
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,440
[button clicks on camera]
699
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,480
Now I wanted to write
a book about him...
700
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,040
but without the confirmation
I couldn't just blame someone
701
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,880
of being a spy or a double agent.
702
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,160
And they wanted to
hear it from Ashraf.
703
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,360
I wanted to hear the story from him.
704
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,080
So, I published A History of Israel.
705
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,320
I wanted to tease Ashraf
out so I wrote in the book,
706
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,200
without mentioning his name,
that he was
707
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,800
a close family member
of President Nasser
708
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:45,520
and that the Israelis used
to refer to him as "the Son-in-Law."
709
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,280
By the way, the Israelis never
called him "the Son-in-Law,"
710
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:55,880
this was my invention in
order for him to react.
711
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:02,240
I sent him the book with a
dedication to Ashraf Marwan,
712
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,320
a hero of Egypt,
713
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:08,840
but no response.
714
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,720
This is, by the way, Tommy,
a very boring book...
715
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,280
except for this story. [chuckles]
716
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:17,760
Yeah.
717
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:19,960
Then, a breakthrough.
718
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:27,040
An Egyptian journalist contacted
Ashraf Marwan asking him,
719
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,040
"Are you the person at the heart
of Bregman's story?"
720
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:33,760
To which he responded,
721
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,640
"Bregman's book is
a stupid detective story."
722
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,280
In a...
723
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,880
childish sort of way, I was upset.
724
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,520
So, when another Egyptian
journalist contacted me...
725
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:58,600
I confirmed, Ashraf Marwan,
he was the Son-in-Law.
726
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,280
A perfect spy,
an Egyptian national hero...
727
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,600
for misleading Israel,
and they should name
728
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,160
a street after him in Cairo.
729
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,080
[birds tweeting]
730
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:19,120
I was obsessed with it.
731
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,720
And if you have
something so important...
732
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,440
[indistinct chatter]
733
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,000
...and you don't tell your wife...
734
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,160
-[music playing on stereo]
-[laughter]
735
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:35,320
...I'm sure it does have an
impact on the relationship.
736
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,480
[family members] ...two, one!
737
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:45,720
A few weeks later I picked up
a copy of El a Ram il a Rabi.
738
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,360
Oh, that's the interview.
739
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,240
"A perfect spy and a national hero...
740
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:54,680
Ashraf Marwan"
741
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,880
And it caused a huge
stir in the Middle East.
742
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,760
"The agent is exposed."
743
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:09,440
I saw my picture in the
book and my heart sank.
744
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,440
It was quite shocking for me.
745
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,000
I wondered what would be
the reaction of Marwan,
746
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:18,720
of the Egyptians, of the Mossad.
747
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:20,880
It was very worrying.
748
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,560
[phone ringing]
749
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,280
-The next day, I'm in the garden.
-[phone continues ringing]
750
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,040
Through the window,
I can see my wife banging.
751
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:45,520
"You have a telephone call..."
752
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,040
I pick up the phone,
753
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,320
and someone says, "How are you?"
754
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:54,200
It's an Arabic accent.
755
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,440
"And who are you?" I ask.
756
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,080
"I am the person
you've written about."
757
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,120
I'm taken aback.
758
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,760
He says, "We should meet up."
759
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,960
I was about to meet up with
one of the greatest spies
760
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,600
in modern history.
761
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,920
Quite a dangerous exercise.
762
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,400
So, I was concerned.
763
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:54,080
I took some precautions,
I left a message to my wife saying,
764
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,280
"I am meeting Ashraf Marwan."
765
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,360
And I walked
to the Intercontinental Hotel,
766
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,320
looking back from time-to-time.
767
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,080
He was already there.
768
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,240
I've never seen him before,
and I was quite surprised
769
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,040
to see how tall he was,
770
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,640
well-dressed with a scarf,
771
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,040
a red scarf, pacing up and down.
772
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,880
And although we never met before,
773
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,280
we immediately
recognized each other.
774
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,480
"How are you?" I ask.
775
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,560
"I'm ill," he says.
"I just had a few operations."
776
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,000
We ordered coffees,
777
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,440
and when the coffee
did not come to our table,
778
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,760
he got up and went and fetched it for us,
779
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,280
which was a big mistake.
780
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,360
He could have put
something inside,
781
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,440
this was my only
mistake in the meeting.
782
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:10,200
I said to him I had one big
question I wanted to ask him.
783
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:17,640
Why did you say sunset
when the war started at 2:00 p.m.?
784
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:23,440
He smiled and said,
"What are a few hours between us?"
785
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:26,240
-[camera clicks]
-Bingo!
786
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:27,880
[Dr. Bregman laughs]
787
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,720
This was a real admission
that he was misleading Israel.
788
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,800
But then he added that he is
concerned about his safety...
789
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,040
[man speaking indistinctly over radio]
790
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,040
...and it was left at that.
791
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,720
It was amazing,
and I was very happy to be alive.
792
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,080
General Eli Zeira was correct,
793
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:06,320
the mysterious spy who worked
for Israel was a double agent.
794
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:08,240
This is bullshit!
795
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:09,840
-Well, he's wrong!
-[Tommy] Tell me what you really...
796
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,240
Tell me what you really think!
797
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,120
I think Ronnie is wrong.
798
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:19,000
What Eli Zeira was doing
was spreading fake news
799
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,600
four decades before
Trump came to power,
800
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,200
and invented that term.
801
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,400
[button clicks on camera, tape whirs]
802
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:27,520
[button clicks]
803
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:31,360
[male reporter] This was the day
when Israel mourned her dead,
804
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,120
the latest casualty figures: 1,854 killed.
805
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,800
The impact of the surprise was, for me,
806
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:44,200
a thing that haunts me to this day.
807
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,160
Certainly, I have anger.
808
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,160
If we have someone like Marwan,
809
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:56,040
who told us and warned us
a day before to prepare the army,
810
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,320
our intelligence really fucked up.
811
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,920
Of course, I'm angry. Very much so.
812
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,280
[crowd clamoring]
813
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,880
[indistinct shouting]
814
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:35,160
[Rami Tali] After the war,
815
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,240
there was an inquiry committee
816
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,200
for the failure
of the military intelligence.
817
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,040
[David Arbel] It was the responsibility
818
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,320
of the head of
the Military Intelligence,
819
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,200
General Zeira, to give the alert,
and he did not.
820
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,640
Eli Zeira, when he was asked,
821
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,520
"Why you didn't do anything
822
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,520
with such tremendous early warning?"
823
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:20,160
he say, "I didn't want to bother
the chief of staff, he was busy."
824
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:21,080
Really?
825
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,120
[Rami Tali] Because Eli Zeira,
he thought they would attack us
826
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:30,480
only if they have enough air cover
provided by the Russians,
827
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,680
-and the air cover is not yet ready.
-[cameras clicking]
828
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,360
Eli Zeira didn't believe
Ashraf Marwan's warnings.
829
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,320
The inquiry committee,
830
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,600
-they concluded Eli Zeira...
-[camera clicks]
831
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,200
...bore the main responsibility
for the failure in the war.
832
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,200
Eli Zeira was ousted from active service.
833
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:18,800
And he left the country.
He went with his family to the US.
834
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:25,240
About 13 years after the war,
Eli published his book.
835
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,160
He came to the conclusion that Marwan
836
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:36,880
was a double agent and his real employers
were the Egyptians and not the Israelis.
837
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:38,720
[Amos Gilboa] Eli Zeira,
838
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,960
-he want to find a scapegoat.
-[indistinct chatter]
839
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,680
All the stories about the double agent,
840
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,120
it stems from Eli Zeira.
841
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,200
He want to justify himself.
842
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,520
I am furious about him.
[sighs]
843
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,680
[claps palms against thighs]
What can I do?
844
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,160
[Tommy] I actually
spoke to Zeira yesterday.
845
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,760
-Zeira said, "All that is facts."
-[Shabtai Shavit muttering]
846
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:30,120
So?
847
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,440
What do you want to prove?
848
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,480
I'll, uh-- I'll, uh--
I'll throw it away.
849
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,880
[Tommy] He said, "On October 4th,
at early afternoon, the Soviets started--"
850
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:41,880
Listen...
851
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,400
Can you stop here? I'll tell you...
852
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:47,560
off...
853
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,720
[indistinct chatter]
854
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,120
[Yossi Melman] When Zeira wanted
to rehabilitate himself,
855
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,160
he started talking to
journalists, writers,
856
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,200
and he gave them some hints.
857
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,600
One day he asked
me for a meeting.
858
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:20,360
He tried to feed me also
with this false bullshit,
859
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,440
uh, of double agent.
860
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:27,200
I listened to him and I told him,
"Eli, you are wrong.
861
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,240
You are feeding
false information
862
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,600
just for your pride,
hubris, ego, whatever,"
863
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,000
and I didn't write the story
because I have more integrity.
864
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,520
But why kill a good
story with the facts?
865
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,240
And Ronnie Bregman
believed Eli Zeira...
866
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:49,800
published the name in El a Ran
and spread he was a double agent.
867
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,000
[Rajeev Syal]
About a month after the murder...
868
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,080
there was a major development.
869
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,480
There were three witnesses,
870
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,560
and they were sitting in a room
which overlooked the balcony,
871
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,440
just 20 yards from his home.
872
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:43,080
So, I presume witness Joseph Rapasi
would have been sitting here,
873
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,280
because he had the direct
view of the balcony.
874
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:54,040
He saw from the corner
of his eye something fall
875
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,240
but they then rushed
over to the window,
876
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,560
looked down and could
see Ashraf Marwan's body.
877
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:08,840
And it was then that he
saw two shadowy figures,
878
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,040
Middle Eastern appearance
looking over the balcony.
879
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:18,880
I flew to Hungary and
met Rapasi in Budapest,
880
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,760
and he did confirm to me
that that was his story,
881
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,320
which, of course,
deepened the mystery.
882
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,040
At the time,
it was a major development,
883
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,560
because it looked as if it could be,
884
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,680
if they were people of
Middle Eastern appearance,
885
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,480
maybe they could be
Egyptian secret services,
886
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,920
and it did fuel speculation
about who had possibly killed him.
887
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,760
After the meeting in
the Intercontinental Hotel in London,
888
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:01,240
Ashraf, he would phone from time to time.
889
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,600
I think he was... lonely.
890
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,320
He could not have discussed
it with Mona, his wife,
891
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,040
he could not have discussed
his spy games
892
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:17,080
with his kids or friends,
so, ironically, he had me,
893
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,160
the person who exposed
him in the first place.
894
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,160
Ashraf had strange habits.
895
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:30,400
-He would phone me and keep quiet...
-[rustling against microphone]
896
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,120
...listening to my voice
at the other end of the line,
897
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,160
putting down the phone,
898
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,920
ring again and start a conversation.
899
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:50,200
The more Ashraf asked personal questions
about family and kids,
900
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,960
the more concerned I became for him.
901
01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:00,960
Because as long as he was
the Son-in-Law with no face,
902
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,880
I did not care about
him as a human being.
903
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,120
But now I had a
relationship with him,
904
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,000
I knew about his operations,
about the family, about the kids,
905
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:19,320
that I became very worried that
something might happen to him,
906
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,840
that perhaps the Egyptians
would not buy into my story
907
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,280
of him being their perfect spy,
908
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,560
the double agent,
and they would try to hurt him,
909
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:36,360
or perhaps the Mossad
might do a stupid thing.
910
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:45,320
I spent sleepless nights
concerned about what could happen.
911
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,680
I thought that if anything happened to him
it would be on my conscience,
912
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:59,520
and ironically,
from trying to unmask this super spy,
913
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,600
I started looking for
ways to protect him.
914
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:09,400
Anything which was said about him,
to report to him,
915
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,240
so he could take precautions.
916
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:18,440
All my work, my lectures, my writing,
my family, all was put aside.
917
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,480
He became the first priority.
918
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,440
By that time, I was so worried
919
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:32,160
that something would happen to him
that I would just look for
920
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,720
anything written about him,
and he would get the articles
921
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,240
and usually just phone back
and ask a few questions,
922
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,320
because most of
them were in Hebrew.
923
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,360
On one occasion something
was published in Israel,
924
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:52,920
the article is about
Ashraf Marwan shaking hands
925
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,960
with Egypt's President Mubarak.
926
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,760
And the title is,
927
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:03,480
"The man--
There is Mossad's man in Cairo."
928
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,080
"And why did Mubarak
hug the person
929
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:13,000
who is regarded as
the best Mossad agent in Egypt?"
930
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,600
I thought the Egyptians
might want to have revenge.
931
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,960
I sent it to Ashraf,
and when he got it,
932
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,920
he phoned me from a taxi...
933
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:31,040
and he just shouted
and actually cried.
934
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,160
“Why are they doing it to me?
935
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:37,880
They, the Mossad,
is trying to drive a wedge
936
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,560
between me and Mubarak,
and this is their revenge
937
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:44,840
for me misleading them.”
938
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:51,040
He was so upset
that even I became very upset.
939
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,720
[Tommy] Do you think he was upset
because Israel's story was a lie?
940
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,080
[Dr. Bregman]
Yes. And then he said,
941
01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:59,360
"There was no one spy,
942
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,240
we were a group of 40
people whose task it was
943
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,320
-to feed the Israelis."
-[indistinct chatter]
944
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,760
"There was no single double agent.
There was Egypt."
945
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,200
He told me about the medals
he received from Sadat.
946
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,640
Wow. It was huge.
I couldn't believe it.
947
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:49,920
But he was scared.
948
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:54,480
He told me he feared for his life,
and I just realized
949
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:59,200
what a stupid thing it was
to unmask a living spy.
950
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,040
[Tommy] But Ronnie,
you told me that the higher value
951
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,400
of unmasking Marwan
was about staying true to history,
952
01:09:06,480 --> 01:09:09,480
and having an accurate
record of what happened.
953
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:15,560
[Dr. Bregman] The truth of the matter...
when I unmasked Marwan,
954
01:09:16,440 --> 01:09:18,120
I couldn't care less about history,
955
01:09:18,480 --> 01:09:23,280
I just cared about
a huge scoop that I had.
956
01:09:23,480 --> 01:09:25,760
[birds tweeting]
957
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:33,000
He wanted, as he put it, the story to die.
958
01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:36,880
[theme music playing]
959
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,920
Let's open up another chapter
of this conversation
960
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:44,840
that will be published.
961
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:48,120
Ashraf Marwan, Dr Ashraf Marwan...
962
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:50,840
-You think he's a double agent.
-Yes.
963
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,000
But everyone who checked up on the issue
says there is no chance in hell!
964
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:56,880
They say he was not a double agent,
he was our agent.
965
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:01,240
Zeira published a new version of his book,
966
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,920
and to promote the book,
he went to a television studio
967
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,200
and he said...
968
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,840
Regarding Marwan,
he gave us excellent information,
969
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:15,280
right up until the time of war,
then he fucked us over.
970
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:17,920
[theme music playing]
971
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:23,280
An interview with Commander Eli Zeira
here on this show about the Yom Kippur War
972
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:26,440
made an earthquake
in the intelligence community.
973
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:29,640
Head of the Mossad, Zvi Zamir,
answers back.
974
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,280
Zamir called him a liar. "You lie."
975
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:36,760
He, Eli Zeira, is censoring information!
976
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:39,680
He releases information that reflects,
977
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,040
you know what,
his sick state of mind!
978
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:43,360
[cameras clicking]
979
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:48,040
[Yossi Melman]
So, Zeira took him to court for libel,
980
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:52,880
so Zamir countered
by taking Zeira to court for libel.
981
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,040
So, there were two libel cases.
982
01:10:57,440 --> 01:11:00,760
The Mossad realized that
it's getting out of hand.
983
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:05,080
These two elderly gentlemen
which were compared
984
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:06,840
to those who are
sitting on the balcony
985
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,760
in the market shops, quarreling
and spilling secrets...
986
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:15,280
So, the Mossad said,
"Let's go to arbitration."
987
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:24,640
[Dr. Bregman] I was invited
to the arbitration by General Eli Zeira,
988
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,640
who paid for my flight ticket, by the way.
989
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:32,280
Zeira wanted me to tell the judge
that he was not my source,
990
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:34,560
which was correct.
991
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,400
But the judge asked me about Zeira's book,
to which I said,
992
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:42,840
"Yes, it was an important source."
993
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:49,200
The lawyer of the head of
the Mossad took out this book
994
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:50,880
and waved it in the air.
995
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,880
I understood that was
a big mistake to admit...
996
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,440
that the book was my source,
because for the judge,
997
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,200
the book and Eli Zeira
were basically the same.
998
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:09,120
So stupid to be brought
there all the way from London
999
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:13,920
to give testimony to protect Zeira,
and, in fact,
1000
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,440
I was the one who put, indirectly,
the blame on Zeira
1001
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:23,280
by saying that his book
was one of my most important sources.
1002
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,440
It was very embarrassing, in fact.
1003
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:27,520
[Tommy] After all that...
1004
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,240
Yeah. [laughs]
1005
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:30,400
Terrible.
1006
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,240
-It's amazing.
-It's not amazing, Tommy.
1007
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:34,600
It's terrible.
1008
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:36,480
Everyone thinks that I'm clever.
1009
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:37,920
I was so stupid.
1010
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:42,560
And Zeira lost.
1011
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:46,560
[car horns honking]
1012
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:50,320
And then came a big mistake.
1013
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:56,680
The judge wrote a report
where openly he stated
1014
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:01,440
that Ashraf Marwan
was a Mossad agent.
1015
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:07,960
This is the report of the judge,
Zeira versus Zamir.
1016
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:14,680
Here, look, Ashraf's name
is mentioned many times,
1017
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:15,800
which was terrible.
1018
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,680
Here they say there was a top agent...
1019
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:25,880
who was handled by the Mossad.
1020
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,440
"The agent, or Marwan..."
1021
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,040
And they expose him, his name, here.
1022
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:37,400
So, he is mentioned in this report
so many times.
1023
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:42,680
As long as a historian, Ahron Bregman,
said what he said about Marwan,
1024
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:47,760
this was bad but not the end of the world.
1025
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,440
But the moment a judge says...
1026
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:56,520
"the agent, Marwan,"
1027
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:57,800
this was official.
1028
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,400
When I saw it, the report, online,
1029
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,160
I nearly fell off my chair.
1030
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,600
His life was in real danger.
1031
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:15,160
I sent a fax message to
Ashraf Marwan to phone me.
1032
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:21,520
I collected my son,
put him in front of the television.
1033
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,200
The telephone answering
machine was flashing.
1034
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:28,960
[automated voice]
Message received today at 1:52 p.m.
1035
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:34,680
And I was taken aback when
I heard Ashraf's own voice.
1036
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:36,880
[Ashraf Marwan] Hello, hi.
1037
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,200
Hello. About your book,
if you could call me back...
1038
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:40,880
on my mobile. Thank you.
1039
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,840
It was very unusual.
1040
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,520
Ashraf was a real spy,
spies don't leave messages...
1041
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,320
-[button clicks]
-...and then a second message.
1042
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:53,480
[button clicks]
1043
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,640
[Ashraf Marwan]
Please. Hello, can you call me?
1044
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,800
It's about your book. Thank you.
1045
01:14:58,440 --> 01:14:59,480
[recording ends]
1046
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,320
[automated voice]
To return the call using the--
1047
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,480
-[button clicks]
-[Dr. Bregman] I could see that he was...
1048
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,720
-[tape fast-forwarding]
-...under pressure.
1049
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:09,080
[Ashraf Marwan] Please.
1050
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:11,440
Hello, can you call me?
It's about your book.
1051
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:12,440
Thank you.
1052
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,760
[Dr. Bregman] Almost one after the other.
1053
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:20,880
[automated voice]
Message received today at 3:11 p.m.
1054
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:23,400
[Ashraf Marwan] Hello, hi, good afternoon.
1055
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:25,400
If you could call me,
I'm the subject of your book.
1056
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:26,400
Thank you.
1057
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:28,640
[automated voice]
To listen to the message again--
1058
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:29,640
[button clicks]
1059
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:33,160
I've known him for five years.
1060
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,200
This was the first time
that he left messages
1061
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:38,720
on my answering machine.
1062
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:46,880
I took out my old tape recorder
and I, for the first time,
1063
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:49,600
decided to record
the conversation.
1064
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:56,720
I dialed the number,
my finger was shaking.
1065
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:58,040
[ringing tone]
1066
01:15:58,120 --> 01:15:59,200
He picked up the phone.
1067
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:00,520
[rustling against microphone]
1068
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:02,760
[Dr. Bregman on audio recording]
Hello, my friend.
1069
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:05,760
I'm okay, and how are you?
1070
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:07,240
Yes, sure. Absolutely.
1071
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,680
Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.
1072
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:10,600
Bye-bye.
1073
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:13,320
He asked me to phone him again.
1074
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:14,240
"Put it down."
1075
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:16,320
[Dr. Bregman on audio recording]
And two minutes later...
1076
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:18,840
[Dr. Bregman in scene]
I'm talking to myself two minutes later...
1077
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:23,520
and he is not answering,
which was strange.
1078
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,440
I was very concerned that he
said to me, "Phone me again,"
1079
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:30,760
and then I tried again...
So, something
1080
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,400
is happening in the room
when I am talking to him.
1081
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:35,000
You see, I am waiting for him.
1082
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:38,040
[Dr. Bregman on audio recording]
And two minutes later...
1083
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:40,600
Third time.
1084
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:45,960
What's happening in the room?
1085
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:47,960
Are you there, you know?
1086
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:50,240
I phoned him, he said,
"Phone me again."
1087
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,480
I'm trying and trying and trying.
1088
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,840
[ringing tone]
1089
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:58,120
[Dr. Bregman on audio recording]
Hi, hello.
1090
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:00,600
No, no, no. Don't worry.
1091
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:05,240
So, um, the report of the judge
came out...
1092
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:09,080
and there are details there.
This is the bottom line.
1093
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,720
Ashraf wanted the story to die,
1094
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:20,240
what he gets here
is a report from me that his story
1095
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,040
is very much alive,
1096
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,120
and I'm sure that he is very stressed.
1097
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:27,600
I am sure that he is very worried.
1098
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:28,880
It's awful for him.
1099
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:31,640
[Dr. Bregman on audio recording]
Are you in England?
1100
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:34,560
[Ashraf Marwan speaking inaudibly]
1101
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,560
[Dr. Bregman] Tomorrow, I will be in town.
I will be at King's College.
1102
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,680
If you want to meet, we can meet,
but it's up to you.
1103
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,280
Okay, my friend. All the best.
1104
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:46,560
Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
1105
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:48,280
[hangs up]
1106
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:49,640
I am shaking.
1107
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:19,360
This is one of the rare events
where people pay with their lives.
1108
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:21,920
He paid with his life,
1109
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:24,560
and he didn't deserve it.
1110
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,440
[Yossi Melman]
After the death of Ashraf Marwan,
1111
01:18:47,480 --> 01:18:49,160
Ronnie was in shock.
1112
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:54,320
[Dr. Bregman] I felt big pain.
1113
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:58,760
It was very painful when he died.
1114
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:04,760
I spent hours in the mountains
thinking about it,
1115
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:06,560
reflecting about it.
1116
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,720
His death was my failure to protect him.
1117
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,040
This is how I looked at it.
1118
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:20,240
[Yossi Melman]
I flew to interview Ronnie Bregman.
1119
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:24,960
We had a very lengthy conversation,
he said, "Maybe it's my fault."
1120
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:30,520
Then we talked a lot in details
with all these arguments
1121
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:32,680
which I raised before.
1122
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:38,080
At the end of it, Ronnie told me,
"You know, Yossi? You are right.
1123
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,240
I don't believe anymore
that he was a double agent,
1124
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:42,400
you convinced me."
1125
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:52,040
[Zvi Zamir] Eli had a clique
of journalists surrounding him.
1126
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,640
And among them, one historian.
1127
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:58,200
If you ask me,
and I'm not just saying this,
1128
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:00,080
these people are disgusting.
1129
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:01,600
Why?
1130
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:04,040
Because these people distort the truth.
1131
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,440
[crowd clamoring]
1132
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:17,960
[Amos Gilboa] Yeah, the funeral.
1133
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:24,320
They asked me,
"Okay, he got such an Egypt funeral.
1134
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:30,120
With all the leadership
coming with black suits.
1135
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:37,480
His widow stand there.
All the high echelon passed by her,
1136
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:40,280
kissing her or whispering..."
1137
01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:45,240
They asked me,
"How could it be that this is a traitor?"
1138
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,560
I watched many mafia movies.
1139
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:53,840
When the mafia killed
one of their members,
1140
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:58,200
all the dons are passing
by the widow, whispering,
1141
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,320
"We will give you money,"
"We will give you money."
1142
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:06,080
The funeral of Ashraf Marwan...
1143
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,560
reminds me the same.
1144
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:11,360
[indistinct chatter]
1145
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,520
[Rajeev Syal]
This is Westminster Coroner Court
1146
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:25,000
where there was a three-day
hearing to decide a verdict
1147
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:27,040
on the death of Ashraf Marwan.
1148
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,920
During the inquest, it was mentioned
he had been writing his memoirs.
1149
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,640
I had seen where
the memoirs were supposed
1150
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:41,960
to have been stored on the shelf
and they'd disappeared,
1151
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:44,400
according to the family,
on the day that he died.
1152
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:49,640
Now, in those memoirs he was
expected to discuss his role
1153
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:51,760
in the October War.
1154
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:53,520
Of course, he was going to reject
1155
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,240
the allegation that
he was a Mossad agent,
1156
01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,240
but they'd disappeared,
according to the family.
1157
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,080
[Dr. Bregman]
The Marwan family, through their lawyer,
1158
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:08,640
asked me to appear
before the coroner.
1159
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:14,040
I was sitting where the coroner
listened to the testimonies
1160
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,760
and it was quite confusing,
1161
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:22,360
and my mind was telling me,
"Wow, it was a murder."
1162
01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:24,960
And then a minute later,
"No, it was an accident."
1163
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,080
And then, "No, it was a suicide."
1164
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:31,200
And to sit there with the family,
at the back of my mind,
1165
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:35,920
there was the question,
"What was my responsibility?"
1166
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:38,640
It was a very unpleasant experience.
1167
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:41,920
There was a three-day hearing to decide,
1168
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:44,920
and at the end of it,
1169
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,920
the coroner handed down
an open verdict on his death.
1170
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:56,840
Which the family were
very pleased about,
1171
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,520
because it allowed the
family to rule out suicide.
1172
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,080
I did feel for Mona,
she was devastated.
1173
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:26,760
[speaking Arabic] Madame Mona,
what was the hardest moment in your life?
1174
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:28,080
[speaking Arabic] Two moments...
1175
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:32,680
-[cheering]
-...the death of my father and my mother,
1176
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:34,400
and the loss of Ashraf.
1177
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:40,360
But at the end of the day,
as his wife, I lost him,
1178
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:43,600
but at the same time, I feel grateful
1179
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:47,560
that I could be with him
for 30 years.
1180
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:19,600
[call to prayer]
1181
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:38,120
[speaking Arabic]
So if he was in touch with Israel,
1182
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:40,960
then it was out of orders
from the Egyptian side?
1183
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:47,160
[speaking Arabic]
This is not even to be questioned;
1184
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:52,000
I am not going to defend something
that I don't need to.
1185
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:56,160
This is something that I am sure of
100 percent,
1186
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,080
not even just 100 percent...
1187
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:07,880
Everyone fought in his or her way.
1188
01:25:09,440 --> 01:25:12,160
[Dr. Kandil] Ashraf Marwan in Egypt
is regarded as a patriot
1189
01:25:12,480 --> 01:25:16,080
who worked for Sadat to
deceive the Israelis.
1190
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:20,960
Basically, by giving Egypt a
four-hour lead in the 1973 war,
1191
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:25,160
but Israel regard him
as a national hero.
1192
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:28,240
Double is very hard to believe.
1193
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,920
In my opinion, he was ours.
1194
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:36,880
[Dr. Kandil] The Israeli side of things
is supported by evidence,
1195
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:41,960
the Egyptian side has yet
to present its own record,
1196
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,520
and only when both of them
are available can we decide
1197
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:49,200
which is the more authentic
version of the story.
1198
01:25:50,440 --> 01:25:54,840
The question is:
why is the Egyptian Intelligence Services,
1199
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:58,240
50 years down the line,
not releasing any shred of evidence
1200
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,160
about Ashraf Marwan?
1201
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:04,880
The fact that we do
not have any evidence
1202
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,400
is really not about Ashraf Marwan.
1203
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:12,880
It is about the fact that
if the Egyptians release any documents,
1204
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:18,680
it will establish a precedent
that the public can have a say on how
1205
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:21,400
the Egyptian State should be transparent,
1206
01:26:21,480 --> 01:26:24,760
that it should be accountable,
and the Egyptian State
1207
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:27,160
doesn't want to establish
this precedent at all.
1208
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:32,760
Even though, by not revealing
anything about Ashraf Marwan,
1209
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:36,400
it can be still raising
suspicion that, in fact,
1210
01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:39,320
he was an Israeli spy
rather than a double agent.
1211
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:43,520
The Ashraf Marwan story,
this is not the real story.
1212
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,560
This is a side story of
something that is much bigger.
1213
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:52,560
The Egyptian people,
they want to know the truth.
1214
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,120
[indistinct chatter]
1215
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,280
[Dr. Bregman]
We have the full report of the meeting
1216
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:14,120
between Zamir and Ashraf Marwan
just released by the Israelis.
1217
01:27:15,320 --> 01:27:18,040
There are five pages,
enough information
1218
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:22,480
for the two schools of thought
to find enough elements
1219
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:24,840
to support their own theory.
1220
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,200
I always believed Ashraf
was a double agent,
1221
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:32,920
I never doubted that.
1222
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:37,440
I don't understand why he's still sticking
1223
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:40,720
to this bullshit theory
of a double agent.
1224
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,960
I can understand that
maybe at the beginning
1225
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,840
he was under this spell and
the impression of Eli Zeira.
1226
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:50,720
Fine. But then,
after he already admitted
1227
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:53,960
in our conversation,
he was almost crying.
1228
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:56,200
I don't know. It's an enigma for me.
1229
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:00,160
[Tommy] Yossi told me
that he convinced you
1230
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,840
Ashraf was not a double agent.
1231
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,400
I don't think that this was the case.
1232
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:09,640
Yossi believes in what he believes,
along with the Mossad.
1233
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,720
The truth, it's in the
eye of the beholder.
1234
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:16,560
[Shabtai Shavit]
The fact that he is not ready to...
1235
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:19,200
face the real story and to...
1236
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:24,680
to have the courage and the guts
to say, "I was mistaken,"
1237
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,680
it's his problem with his conscience.
1238
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:35,920
[Amos Gilboa] Unmasking the name
of a human source,
1239
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:38,000
it's a sin.
1240
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:39,880
[Tommy] What would you say to him?
1241
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:42,240
"Go to hell, bastard!"
1242
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:44,720
Really. "Go to hell, bastard!"
1243
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:46,360
"How dare you?"
1244
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:51,680
[David Arbel] Because you don't
put in danger a human being
1245
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,800
because you want to be famous.
1246
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,040
[Dr. Bregman] When it comes
to the story of Ashraf Marwan
1247
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:00,480
there is no ego in me.
1248
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:05,640
The Mossad, they can't give up on
their story of Ashraf.
1249
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:10,720
And when I'm in bed at night,
as you put it,
1250
01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:15,800
I don't really think about
whether or not he was double.
1251
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,520
I lost interest in this question, Tommy.
1252
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:24,360
It's about the pain
which I inflicted on him
1253
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:26,480
in unmasking him.
1254
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:29,960
[Tommy] I just want you
to ponder a question, though,
1255
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:32,960
is still believing
that he's a double agent,
1256
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,240
is it not easier to believe that,
1257
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:37,960
because then everything
you went through
1258
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:39,920
would at least then
not be for nothing?
1259
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:10,480
[Tommy] What impact did
this have on your marriage?
1260
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:12,200
[Dr. Bregman] Of course, I divorced,
1261
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,640
but it was not because of
the Marwan story.
1262
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:21,720
But I think, in hindsight, it does
have impact, because it's a secret.
1263
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:26,240
My then wife, when she
came to know about it,
1264
01:31:26,440 --> 01:31:31,280
she had the common sense
to tell me that it will end in tears.
1265
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:34,920
But it was, of course-- it was too late.
1266
01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:40,880
And by that time,
the train already left the station.
1267
01:31:42,440 --> 01:31:45,560
Maybe your fish,
they want to have more food.
1268
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:46,960
They love food.
1269
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:51,680
My fish, if I open this one, they jump.
1270
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:52,840
-[Tommy] Do they?
-Yeah.
1271
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,000
They are guppies.
You know, guppies like to jump.
1272
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:01,440
But with them they jump
and I can save them...
1273
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:02,760
[Tommy laughs]
1274
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,040
...because I just bring them
from the floor and put them back.
1275
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:07,880
Look. Look how many of them.
1276
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:18,640
[female reporter] This afternoon
historic documents
1277
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:23,280
concluding the Treaty of Peace
between the Arab Republic of Egypt
1278
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,920
and the State of Israel will be signed.
1279
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,360
[applause]
1280
01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:30,280
It's better to have
the three of us together.
1281
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:31,400
Very good.
1282
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:34,440
[all laughing]
1283
01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:35,840
[speaking indistinctly]
1284
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:37,440
[Jimmy Carter]
I'm so proud of both of you.
1285
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:38,720
God bless you both.
1286
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:40,320
[Anwar Sadat] Thank you, Mr. President.
1287
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:42,720
-[speaking indistinctly]
-[applause continues]