WEBVTT FILE

1
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX

2
00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

3
00:00:11.626 --> 00:00:13.083
Frank Rizzo:
<i>The police will be in there</i>

4
00:00:13.167 --> 00:00:15.417
to drag them out by
the backs of their necks.

5
00:00:15.500 --> 00:00:17.209
Reporter:
There will be a confrontation
this time?

6
00:00:17.292 --> 00:00:18.500
-There'll be no barricade?
-I don't know.

7
00:00:18.584 --> 00:00:20.626
It's up to them whether--
No barricades, Mike.

8
00:00:20.709 --> 00:00:24.250
They're going to be taken
by force if they resist.

9
00:00:24.334 --> 00:00:26.667
♪ ♪

10
00:00:26.751 --> 00:00:28.876
Reporter 1:
<i>Four minutes of gunfire</i>
<i>in West Philadelphia</i>

11
00:00:28.959 --> 00:00:30.542
early this morning,
and it was over.

12
00:00:30.626 --> 00:00:32.667
<i>One Philadelphia
policeman killed.</i>

13
00:00:32.751 --> 00:00:34.709
<i>The members of the
back-to-nature group MOVE</i>

14
00:00:34.792 --> 00:00:36.500
<i>had been routed
from their house.</i>

15
00:00:36.584 --> 00:00:38.918
This was the MOVE house

16
00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.876
until a few hours ago.

17
00:00:40.959 --> 00:00:43.375
-The judge said guilty.
-Reporter 2:<i> One by one,</i>

18
00:00:43.459 --> 00:00:45.292
<i>handcuffed
and heavily guarded.</i>

19
00:00:45.375 --> 00:00:48.083
<i>"Bring your ass out here,"
Michael Africa shouted</i>

20
00:00:48.167 --> 00:00:49.542
<i>at Judge Edwin Malmed.</i>

21
00:00:49.626 --> 00:00:51.918
<i>"I find you guilty of
murder in the third degree."</i>

22
00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.292
(voices overlapping):
<i>"Liar! Liar!"</i>
<i>shouted Delbert Africa.</i>

23
00:00:54.375 --> 00:00:57.209
<i>"How can you find someone
guilty in this illegal court?"</i>

24
00:00:57.292 --> 00:00:59.083
Reporter 3:
<i>It was the same</i>
<i>with all the others.</i>

25
00:00:59.167 --> 00:01:01.459
<i>All shouting obscenities,
all claiming...</i>

26
00:01:01.542 --> 00:01:03.626
<i>emotions of the MOVE
supporters were the same.</i>

27
00:01:03.709 --> 00:01:06.709
You killed my family!
You killed our babies!

28
00:01:06.792 --> 00:01:08.250
You railroaded our people!

29
00:01:08.334 --> 00:01:10.042
Judge Edwin Malmed:
<i>They have at all times</i>
<i>maintained</i>

30
00:01:10.125 --> 00:01:11.626
<i>they were a family
and acted together.</i>

31
00:01:11.709 --> 00:01:13.792
<i>Therefore, I took them
at their own word.</i>

32
00:01:13.876 --> 00:01:16.000
<i>They're a family and have
all acted together,</i>

33
00:01:16.083 --> 00:01:17.542
<i>then they acted in concert.</i>

34
00:01:17.626 --> 00:01:19.792
They acted jointly,
and they should all share

35
00:01:19.876 --> 00:01:22.667
<i>equally in
the punishment imposed.</i>

36
00:01:22.751 --> 00:01:24.751
Reporter 4:
<i>The judge gave</i>
<i>all nine defendants,</i>

37
00:01:24.834 --> 00:01:26.292
<i>five men and four women,</i>

38
00:01:26.375 --> 00:01:28.292
<i>a minimum of
30 years in prison.</i>

39
00:01:28.375 --> 00:01:30.375
Reporter 5:
<i>Prosecutors felt</i>
<i>justice was served</i>

40
00:01:30.459 --> 00:01:32.083
<i>with the third-degree
murder conviction.</i>

41
00:01:32.167 --> 00:01:33.542
And he listened to
all of the evidence,

42
00:01:33.626 --> 00:01:35.125
listened to the arguments
of both sides,

43
00:01:35.209 --> 00:01:36.834
and showed that our
system can work.

44
00:01:36.918 --> 00:01:39.334
Reporter 6:
<i>But do you think that if and</i>
<i>when the policemen leave,</i>

45
00:01:39.417 --> 00:01:41.876
<i>and the things will return
pretty much to normal,</i>

46
00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:43.250
<i>that you could live...</i>

47
00:01:43.334 --> 00:01:46.792
-a normal life in
this neighborhood?
-I don't think so.

48
00:01:46.876 --> 00:01:49.292
<i>There's always
gonna be a memory
of what has happened.</i>

49
00:01:49.375 --> 00:01:50.667
(inaudible)

50
00:01:50.751 --> 00:01:53.500
I don't think it'll ever go
back to a normal situation.

51
00:01:53.584 --> 00:01:55.250
Rizzo:
<i>Get that death penalty back</i>

52
00:01:55.334 --> 00:01:57.626
<i>and put 'em in
the electric chair
and I'll pull the switch.</i>

53
00:01:57.709 --> 00:02:01.083
<i>-That's when I'm sure
they'll not be around.</i>
-(applause)

54
00:02:02.250 --> 00:02:04.918
(car rumbling)

55
00:02:12.667 --> 00:02:15.667
Interviewer:
<i>Tell me where we're going.</i>

56
00:02:15.751 --> 00:02:17.709
Oh, we're going to
Graterford Prison,

57
00:02:17.792 --> 00:02:19.500
SCI Graterford,
they call it.

58
00:02:19.584 --> 00:02:22.667
State Correctional
Institution Graterford.

59
00:02:22.751 --> 00:02:26.542
-I prefer to call it
something else, but--
-Interviewer: What's that?

60
00:02:26.626 --> 00:02:30.334
A st-- a state "incorrectional"
institution!

61
00:02:30.417 --> 00:02:32.834
There's no correction
happening there.

62
00:02:32.918 --> 00:02:35.042
Prison is supposed to, like,

63
00:02:35.125 --> 00:02:37.083
uh, correct you
and make you better

64
00:02:37.167 --> 00:02:38.959
and make you a different person.

65
00:02:39.042 --> 00:02:41.292
If it was the answer to crime,

66
00:02:41.375 --> 00:02:43.167
you wouldn't have more of 'em.

67
00:02:43.250 --> 00:02:44.959
Interviewer:
How long you been
going to prison?

68
00:02:45.042 --> 00:02:49.167
I've been going to the prison
for about 38 years. (laughs)

69
00:02:49.250 --> 00:02:51.584
Interviewer:
Why have you been going
to prison for 38 years?

70
00:02:51.667 --> 00:02:54.000
I'm going to prison--
been going to prison
for 38 years

71
00:02:54.083 --> 00:02:57.167
because I need to see
my mother and father.

72
00:02:57.250 --> 00:02:59.167
And they are both in prison.

73
00:02:59.250 --> 00:03:02.125
So today, we're going to
the prison that my father's at.

74
00:03:02.667 --> 00:03:05.542
♪ ♪

75
00:03:05.626 --> 00:03:09.042
<i>The first time I went to
see my dad that I remember,</i>

76
00:03:09.125 --> 00:03:11.792
I was, I guess, about 4 or 5.

77
00:03:12.667 --> 00:03:15.250
And...

78
00:03:15.334 --> 00:03:19.626
he's asking me
do I know who he is.
And I'm like, nah.

79
00:03:19.709 --> 00:03:22.667
I mean, you know,
I don't know who he is.
No one told me

80
00:03:22.751 --> 00:03:25.417
who we were going to see,
so I didn't know.

81
00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:29.500
So he, you know,
he, he sits me down and,
and he's talking to my sister.

82
00:03:29.584 --> 00:03:31.876
My sister seems to know
who he is, and my cousin,

83
00:03:31.959 --> 00:03:34.584
who was also there,
he seems to know
who he is, too.

84
00:03:34.667 --> 00:03:36.834
And he's asking me
do I know and I say, "No."

85
00:03:36.918 --> 00:03:39.083
And he says,
"Well, my name is Michael."

86
00:03:39.167 --> 00:03:40.792
And I said, okay, like?

87
00:03:40.876 --> 00:03:42.959
I'm looking like,
where, where is this going?

88
00:03:43.042 --> 00:03:44.542
And he says,

89
00:03:44.626 --> 00:03:46.834
"Do you know why both
our names are Michael?"

90
00:03:46.918 --> 00:03:50.250
And I said, "No."
He said, "Because
I'm your father."

91
00:03:50.334 --> 00:03:52.042
And I was like, what?

92
00:03:52.125 --> 00:03:56.083
Like, I got one
of those? (laughs)
You know.

93
00:03:56.167 --> 00:03:59.459
And I hugged him, you know.
And we linked, we bonded
like that immediately.

94
00:03:59.542 --> 00:04:01.751
<i>I called him Dad right away.
I didn't even--</i>

95
00:04:01.834 --> 00:04:04.417
<i>No one even had to,
like, coach me.</i>

96
00:04:04.500 --> 00:04:06.459
<i>It didn't feel weird,
you know, at all.</i>

97
00:04:06.542 --> 00:04:07.959
<i>And, and, um--</i>

98
00:04:08.042 --> 00:04:10.751
And I hugged him and,
and he hugged me and...

99
00:04:10.834 --> 00:04:13.500
I don't know if he was crying,
but I think he might've been.

100
00:04:13.584 --> 00:04:16.709
You know, my dad
don't really show emotions
like that, you know,

101
00:04:16.792 --> 00:04:19.292
but, um, that's--
that's when I remember

102
00:04:19.375 --> 00:04:21.626
knowing that my dad was,
you know...

103
00:04:21.709 --> 00:04:24.209
and, uh,
and I said to him, I said, um,

104
00:04:24.292 --> 00:04:27.250
I said, "Why-why can't
you come home with us?"

105
00:04:27.334 --> 00:04:29.542
And he said, "I can't
come home with--"

106
00:04:29.626 --> 00:04:32.250
And I said, "Why not?" I said,
"We walked right in the door,

107
00:04:32.334 --> 00:04:34.042
"and when we leave,
we're gonna walk out the door.

108
00:04:34.125 --> 00:04:36.959
Why can't you just
walk out when we walk out?"

109
00:04:37.042 --> 00:04:39.000
And he said, he said,
"I can't."

110
00:04:39.083 --> 00:04:42.167
♪ ♪

111
00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:46.500
That's my mama.

112
00:04:46.584 --> 00:04:49.292
Well, that's a picture
of my mama. (laughs)

113
00:04:50.500 --> 00:04:52.626
♪

114
00:05:00.334 --> 00:05:03.584
That's us at the prison. Look,
that's my teeth in front of me.

115
00:05:03.667 --> 00:05:06.667
<i>When I realized that
my parents were in prison,</i>

116
00:05:06.751 --> 00:05:09.042
<i>I started looking for
pictures of them together.</i>

117
00:05:09.125 --> 00:05:11.167
<i>They got together when
they were real young.</i>

118
00:05:11.250 --> 00:05:13.709
<i>I mean, they went to prison
when they were 21 and 22.</i>

119
00:05:13.792 --> 00:05:16.167
<i>So there weren't even a lot
of even pictures of them.</i>

120
00:05:16.250 --> 00:05:18.667
<i>As an adult,
I don't have any
pictures of my dad</i>

121
00:05:18.751 --> 00:05:21.626
<i>doing anything,
wearing street clothes.</i>

122
00:05:23.375 --> 00:05:26.459
♪ ♪

123
00:05:27.918 --> 00:05:31.167
<i>When I learned that they
were actually in prison for</i>

124
00:05:31.250 --> 00:05:33.792
<i>the killing of a cop,
I might've been</i>

125
00:05:33.876 --> 00:05:36.417
12 or 13 years old or whatever.
And I asked my dad, I said,

126
00:05:36.500 --> 00:05:40.250
"Is there anybody in this
prison here for murder?"

127
00:05:40.334 --> 00:05:42.751
He shook his head
and laughed a little bit.

128
00:05:42.834 --> 00:05:46.292
He said, "Yeah.
They got me in here for murder."

129
00:05:46.375 --> 00:05:48.250
And...

130
00:05:49.667 --> 00:05:51.918
It hit me like a ton of bricks.

131
00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.042
Interviewer:
So why do you keep
fighting to get them out?

132
00:05:54.125 --> 00:05:55.959
Why do I keep fighting
to get them out? (laugh)

133
00:05:56.042 --> 00:05:59.042
I keep fighting to get
them out because...

134
00:05:59.125 --> 00:06:01.292
I still am connected to 'em.

135
00:06:01.375 --> 00:06:02.834
<i>I'm committed to them</i>

136
00:06:02.918 --> 00:06:04.751
<i>the way that they
were committed to me</i>

137
00:06:04.834 --> 00:06:07.042
<i>which got the situation
the way it was.</i>

138
00:06:12.125 --> 00:06:14.876
This is MOVE and this
is 309 North 33rd.

139
00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:18.459
MOVE is a totally
revolutionary organization,

140
00:06:18.542 --> 00:06:21.626
<i>and the purpose
of MOVE is to</i>

141
00:06:21.709 --> 00:06:25.626
<i>exhibit bias activity for
the purpose of revolution.</i>

142
00:06:25.709 --> 00:06:28.000
Janine Africa:
<i>Well, I didn't just</i>
<i>join MOVE, you know.</i>

143
00:06:28.083 --> 00:06:30.167
<i>I was raising my child.</i>

144
00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:32.375
<i>I was on welfare and, uh,</i>

145
00:06:32.459 --> 00:06:35.709
it had to be proven to me first,
and they did prove that

146
00:06:35.792 --> 00:06:37.834
they knew what they
was talking about,

147
00:06:37.918 --> 00:06:40.042
and that they were the only
people that could help me.

148
00:06:40.125 --> 00:06:42.626
I was indoctrinated with
a philosophy and a path

149
00:06:42.709 --> 00:06:45.000
that revolution only
meant picking up a gun

150
00:06:45.083 --> 00:06:46.959
and going out
and murdering somebody.

151
00:06:47.042 --> 00:06:49.167
I never thought that
revolution consisted of

152
00:06:49.250 --> 00:06:51.000
revolutionizing myself

153
00:06:51.083 --> 00:06:54.834
to get away from the things
that caused me to wanna revolt.

154
00:06:54.918 --> 00:06:57.083
Tom Kranz:
<i>They talked about living</i>
<i>a natural lifestyle,</i>

155
00:06:57.167 --> 00:06:59.751
um, not eating processed food,

156
00:06:59.834 --> 00:07:01.375
wearing simple clothing,

157
00:07:01.459 --> 00:07:03.334
respecting all forms of life.

158
00:07:03.417 --> 00:07:05.667
They talked about

159
00:07:05.751 --> 00:07:07.792
being disciples of John Africa.

160
00:07:07.876 --> 00:07:09.626
They all took
John Africa's name.

161
00:07:09.709 --> 00:07:12.292
Man:
Where is John Africa?

162
00:07:12.375 --> 00:07:14.292
That's organization
business right now.

163
00:07:14.375 --> 00:07:18.500
Teachings of John Africa are
inherent in his disciples.

164
00:07:18.584 --> 00:07:20.250
His works are shown

165
00:07:20.334 --> 00:07:22.125
in the healthiness
of our children,

166
00:07:22.209 --> 00:07:23.918
the sturdiness of our building,

167
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.459
the way we live, alright?

168
00:07:25.542 --> 00:07:27.876
What we're saying is that,
for security reasons,

169
00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.709
John Africa's whereabouts
are organization business,

170
00:07:30.792 --> 00:07:32.292
and we will keep it that way.

171
00:07:32.375 --> 00:07:35.125
We're not asking people
to idolize a figure,

172
00:07:35.209 --> 00:07:37.584
a so-called leader as they
have done in the past.

173
00:07:37.667 --> 00:07:40.792
What we are asking people
to do is take a serious look

174
00:07:40.876 --> 00:07:43.667
at their lifestyle as
John Africa has said,

175
00:07:43.751 --> 00:07:46.292
see it for what it is,
and do away with it.

176
00:07:46.375 --> 00:07:48.709
♪ ♪

177
00:07:48.792 --> 00:07:51.375
Officer Kressey,
could you characterize

178
00:07:51.459 --> 00:07:53.334
types of meetings
or demonstrations

179
00:07:53.417 --> 00:07:55.876
and what the issues that
were being raised by

180
00:07:55.959 --> 00:07:58.709
the MOVE organization were?

181
00:07:58.792 --> 00:08:01.667
Their main thing
was animal rights,

182
00:08:01.751 --> 00:08:04.250
<i>protesting that all
animals should be free.</i>

183
00:08:04.334 --> 00:08:07.209
<i>Prisoners' rights,
community housing...</i>

184
00:08:08.417 --> 00:08:09.834
<i>people incarcerated.</i>

185
00:08:09.918 --> 00:08:12.167
Was there any indication

186
00:08:12.250 --> 00:08:15.292
that you were aware of that,
uh, the MOVE members

187
00:08:15.375 --> 00:08:17.417
were potentially violent?

188
00:08:17.500 --> 00:08:21.042
Other than being vocal, no, sir.

189
00:08:21.125 --> 00:08:23.417
So this one particular night,

190
00:08:24.626 --> 00:08:28.584
March 28th, 1976.

191
00:08:28.667 --> 00:08:31.584
Our people were
coming home from jail.

192
00:08:31.667 --> 00:08:33.667
We had a big yellow school bus.

193
00:08:33.751 --> 00:08:37.751
I went down there to the House
of Correction, picked them up.

194
00:08:37.834 --> 00:08:40.042
<i>And then when we got back,</i>

195
00:08:40.125 --> 00:08:42.459
<i>there was a big celebration,</i>

196
00:08:42.542 --> 00:08:46.250
and not too long after that,

197
00:08:46.334 --> 00:08:50.167
we was moved on by
a whole bunch of cops.

198
00:08:50.250 --> 00:08:53.000
Cops was swinging their
nightsticks so hard

199
00:08:53.083 --> 00:08:55.751
on people that they
broke 'em in half.

200
00:08:55.834 --> 00:08:58.834
Those sadistic, vicious,

201
00:08:58.918 --> 00:09:00.709
storm trooper cops

202
00:09:00.792 --> 00:09:03.000
took Janine

203
00:09:03.083 --> 00:09:05.959
in their haste, and just

204
00:09:06.042 --> 00:09:09.209
rushed and knocked
her to the ground,

205
00:09:10.292 --> 00:09:12.584
crushing her baby's skull.

206
00:09:12.667 --> 00:09:15.042
The cops wasn't listening to
anything that was being said.

207
00:09:15.125 --> 00:09:17.459
They're just coming at us
with the sticks and I say, like,

208
00:09:17.542 --> 00:09:19.125
my wife, Janine Africa,
was in front of me

209
00:09:19.209 --> 00:09:21.000
as we came out the gate,
and backing up,

210
00:09:21.083 --> 00:09:22.500
trying to protect me,
you know, like,

211
00:09:22.584 --> 00:09:24.125
they just literally,
you know, like,

212
00:09:24.209 --> 00:09:26.334
sticks swinging and everything,

213
00:09:26.417 --> 00:09:28.250
flung her out the way,
you know,

214
00:09:28.334 --> 00:09:30.792
and start coming right
across her to get to me.

215
00:09:30.876 --> 00:09:32.375
<i>The baby died</i>

216
00:09:32.459 --> 00:09:36.125
<i>with a crushed skull caused
by the fall of my wife.</i>

217
00:09:36.209 --> 00:09:40.250
<i>You could see blood
running out the baby's nose.</i>

218
00:09:40.334 --> 00:09:45.167
<i>They carry life that long,
and then just like, you know,
in one, you know,</i>

219
00:09:45.250 --> 00:09:48.334
<i>one scene like that,
to have life destroyed.</i>

220
00:09:48.417 --> 00:09:51.500
♪ ♪

221
00:09:57.626 --> 00:09:59.667
They tried to say
the baby never existed.

222
00:09:59.751 --> 00:10:01.334
The baby was only one month old.

223
00:10:01.417 --> 00:10:03.000
She gave birth to him at home,

224
00:10:03.083 --> 00:10:05.500
so of course she did not
have a birth certificate.

225
00:10:05.584 --> 00:10:07.542
We actually called

226
00:10:07.626 --> 00:10:10.626
-all these councilmen
and people out...
-Mm-hmm.

227
00:10:10.709 --> 00:10:12.709
to confirm

228
00:10:12.792 --> 00:10:16.459
and justify and qualify
our position here.

229
00:10:16.542 --> 00:10:20.334
We actually showed them
the baby's body.

230
00:10:25.375 --> 00:10:28.042
It was wrapped and it was dead.

231
00:10:28.125 --> 00:10:32.709
Um, but they would never
give the baby up to have

232
00:10:32.792 --> 00:10:34.584
<i>a autopsy.</i>

233
00:10:34.667 --> 00:10:36.626
Linn Washington Jr.:
<i>The city was in</i>
<i>serious denial mode.</i>

234
00:10:36.709 --> 00:10:38.918
"No, we didn't do it.
We didn't do..."

235
00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.000
But, you know,
those denials didn't have

236
00:10:41.083 --> 00:10:42.959
too much weight
because they were also

237
00:10:43.042 --> 00:10:44.918
<i>denying the gross</i>

238
00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.292
<i>brutality that was
going on by the police,</i>

239
00:10:47.375 --> 00:10:49.584
<i>either being beatings
or fatal shootings.</i>

240
00:10:50.751 --> 00:10:52.500
Nothing was done about it.

241
00:10:52.584 --> 00:10:55.083
Nothing was
ever done about

242
00:10:55.167 --> 00:10:58.125
anything that happened
to the MOVE organization.

243
00:10:58.209 --> 00:11:01.417
This is what started
everything with MOVE.

244
00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:04.334
We didn't just
jump out the house,

245
00:11:04.417 --> 00:11:06.751
start calling cops
"motherfuckers".

246
00:11:06.834 --> 00:11:09.417
It is impossible to
describe a maniac,

247
00:11:09.500 --> 00:11:12.584
a profane, obscene,
pornographic freak

248
00:11:12.667 --> 00:11:14.375
without using profane words!

249
00:11:14.459 --> 00:11:16.667
-Motherfuckers!
-(cheering)

250
00:11:16.751 --> 00:11:20.459
I mean, we do call
cops "motherfuckers".
Not to curse.

251
00:11:20.542 --> 00:11:23.250
We don't ever call them
a pig because we got respect

252
00:11:23.334 --> 00:11:25.918
for the pig
because the pig is life.

253
00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.751
I believe you said there were
over 100 some-odd arrests.

254
00:11:28.834 --> 00:11:31.459
What was the nature
of those arrests?
What were they for?

255
00:11:31.542 --> 00:11:34.876
There was 193.
Terroristic threats, riot,

256
00:11:34.959 --> 00:11:36.667
aggravated A&B, A&B,

257
00:11:36.751 --> 00:11:39.209
disorderly conduct,
failure to disperse.

258
00:11:39.292 --> 00:11:43.042
We were given a strategy
by MOVE's founder

259
00:11:43.125 --> 00:11:44.792
to take a stand.

260
00:11:44.876 --> 00:11:47.375
We're showing people
now the importance,

261
00:11:47.459 --> 00:11:50.083
the immediacy of getting
rid of this system,

262
00:11:50.167 --> 00:11:51.459
of confronting these judges,

263
00:11:51.542 --> 00:11:53.626
of getting rid of these
crooked, crooked cops,

264
00:11:53.709 --> 00:11:56.042
and the whole
cop system altogether.

265
00:11:56.125 --> 00:11:58.417
It's dangerous to life,
doesn't help life.

266
00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:02.167
It destroys, cripples,
retards, even kills life,

267
00:12:02.250 --> 00:12:03.709
and that's what
we're about now.

268
00:12:03.792 --> 00:12:07.083
The story started to grow
of the neighbors' complaints,

269
00:12:07.167 --> 00:12:09.584
the whole bullhorn thing.
I didn't quite get

270
00:12:09.667 --> 00:12:11.584
why they were doing that
because this didn't sound like

271
00:12:11.667 --> 00:12:12.959
the group that I interviewed.

272
00:12:13.042 --> 00:12:15.125
Chuckie Africa (on bullhorn):
As long as this system

273
00:12:15.209 --> 00:12:17.292
will impose on us,

274
00:12:17.375 --> 00:12:20.417
by us being non-violent,
we must fight back.

275
00:12:20.500 --> 00:12:23.209
They built this fort-like

276
00:12:23.292 --> 00:12:25.876
structure around their house,
like a parapet.

277
00:12:25.959 --> 00:12:27.709
<i>Walls, two-by-sixes,</i>

278
00:12:27.792 --> 00:12:30.751
<i>two-by-eights,
ducked in the ground
straight up and down</i>

279
00:12:30.834 --> 00:12:32.209
<i>with a walkway on the inside.</i>

280
00:12:32.292 --> 00:12:34.334
Right in the middle of
this urban neighborhood

281
00:12:34.417 --> 00:12:36.667
surrounded by families and kids,

282
00:12:36.751 --> 00:12:38.709
and now there's,
you know, there's

283
00:12:38.792 --> 00:12:41.709
<i>timber and there's
these big metal plates.</i>

284
00:12:41.792 --> 00:12:45.167
Officer Kressey:
<i>The first and second</i>
<i>floor windows</i>

285
00:12:45.250 --> 00:12:47.209
<i>of 309 North 33rd Street</i>

286
00:12:47.292 --> 00:12:48.792
are now boarded up.

287
00:12:48.876 --> 00:12:51.918
There are no longer gonna
be anymore beatings,

288
00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.792
no more brutality,

289
00:12:53.876 --> 00:12:56.792
without us defending ourselves.

290
00:12:56.876 --> 00:12:59.083
If you come at us
with your hands,

291
00:12:59.167 --> 00:13:00.918
we'll come back at you
with our hands.

292
00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:02.834
Delbert Africa:
<i>If the police come in</i>
<i>here with their hands,</i>

293
00:13:02.918 --> 00:13:04.959
we'll use our hands.
If they come in here with clubs,

294
00:13:05.042 --> 00:13:07.125
we'll use clubs. But if
they come in here shooting

295
00:13:07.209 --> 00:13:09.584
and killing our women
and children and our men,

296
00:13:09.667 --> 00:13:12.292
we will shoot back
in defense of our lives.

297
00:13:12.375 --> 00:13:15.542
♪ ♪

298
00:13:21.292 --> 00:13:23.500
Man 1:
You may call your next witness.

299
00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.542
Man 2:
Call, uh,

300
00:13:26.626 --> 00:13:29.125
Louise James and Laverne Sims.

301
00:13:33.959 --> 00:13:38.334
Mrs. James and Mrs. Sims,
if you can turn around, uh...

302
00:13:39.417 --> 00:13:41.000
Can you see
these photographs?

303
00:13:41.083 --> 00:13:42.209
Both:
Yes, I can. Yeah.

304
00:13:42.292 --> 00:13:43.876
These were photographs,
as I understand,

305
00:13:43.959 --> 00:13:45.709
that were taken on...

306
00:13:45.792 --> 00:13:48.500
May 20th, 1977, in front of
the Powelton Street house.

307
00:13:48.584 --> 00:13:51.459
-Both: I recognize it. Yeah.
-Man 2: Powelton Village.
You recognize it?

308
00:13:51.542 --> 00:13:54.876
-And were those members
of the MOVE organization?
-Both: Yes, they were.

309
00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.250
-Were they weapons?
-I don't know.

310
00:13:59.751 --> 00:14:02.000
Man 2:
<i>What did the MOVE members</i>

311
00:14:02.083 --> 00:14:04.876
<i>say on May 20th, '77?</i>

312
00:14:04.959 --> 00:14:07.292
"If you think that this
white racist society

313
00:14:07.375 --> 00:14:09.459
"will shoot down those
white students at

314
00:14:09.542 --> 00:14:11.792
<i>"Kent State,
you think they'll hesitate</i>

315
00:14:11.876 --> 00:14:14.083
<i>"shooting down any
Black, Puerto Rican,</i>

316
00:14:14.167 --> 00:14:16.959
<i>"or Chicano brothers
here in Philadelphia?</i>

317
00:14:17.042 --> 00:14:18.792
<i>"No. How many times did you</i>

318
00:14:18.876 --> 00:14:21.000
"pick up the paper
and read about another

319
00:14:21.083 --> 00:14:23.334
"Puerto Rican, another Mexican,
another Black man

320
00:14:23.417 --> 00:14:26.042
"shot in cold blood
'cause some cop said,

321
00:14:26.125 --> 00:14:28.459
'I thought I saw
a piece of shiny metal.

322
00:14:28.542 --> 00:14:29.876
I thought he'd shoot me.'"

323
00:14:29.959 --> 00:14:32.292
Since you become
mayor in 1972,

324
00:14:32.375 --> 00:14:34.709
more than 150 people
have been

325
00:14:34.792 --> 00:14:37.334
killed by police,
that more than half

326
00:14:37.417 --> 00:14:38.918
of these people
who were killed

327
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.334
were said to be
unarmed at the time.

328
00:14:41.417 --> 00:14:44.125
Isn't this a rather high
incidence of unarmed people

329
00:14:44.209 --> 00:14:47.167
-being killed by policemen
in the line of their duty?
-No, I--

330
00:14:47.250 --> 00:14:48.334
No, I don't think so.

331
00:14:48.417 --> 00:14:51.542
We have to decide who
should be more aggressive,

332
00:14:51.626 --> 00:14:54.250
the police
or the criminal element.

333
00:14:54.334 --> 00:14:56.125
I'm on the side of
the police every time.

334
00:14:56.209 --> 00:14:59.250
If the police department of
Philadelphia was not aggressive,

335
00:14:59.334 --> 00:15:01.542
I would fire
the police commissioner.

336
00:15:01.626 --> 00:15:04.584
More testimony today in
the trial of six homicide cops

337
00:15:04.667 --> 00:15:06.250
charged with beating witnesses.

338
00:15:06.334 --> 00:15:08.083
Reporter 1:
<i>Warren was shot</i>
<i>once in the head</i>

339
00:15:08.167 --> 00:15:10.417
<i>by Officer Bow as Warren fled</i>

340
00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:11.959
<i>from the police
administration building...</i>

341
00:15:12.042 --> 00:15:13.751
Reporter 2:
<i>Three off-duty cops</i>
<i>have shot people</i>

342
00:15:13.834 --> 00:15:15.417
<i>who were not armed...</i>

343
00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:18.292
Reporter 3:
<i>Officer Robert Flint, now</i>
<i>Sergeant Flint, chased Craig,</i>

344
00:15:18.375 --> 00:15:20.834
<i>beat him with a nightstick
and shot him to death.</i>

345
00:15:20.918 --> 00:15:22.250
<i>The family was never notified</i>

346
00:15:22.334 --> 00:15:25.959
<i>by police, hearing the news
instead on the radio.</i>

347
00:15:26.042 --> 00:15:28.375
When you cannot reach out

348
00:15:28.459 --> 00:15:31.918
to the officials
and get justice,

349
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.209
when you cannot get justice

350
00:15:34.292 --> 00:15:36.834
from anybody in a city,

351
00:15:36.918 --> 00:15:39.959
what do you do
and where do you go?

352
00:15:40.042 --> 00:15:42.250
Everybody has a saturation point

353
00:15:42.334 --> 00:15:44.125
that they reach sometimes

354
00:15:44.209 --> 00:15:47.542
<i>in their lives when you
just can't take anymore!</i>

355
00:15:47.626 --> 00:15:49.959
♪ ♪

356
00:15:50.042 --> 00:15:54.042
Carlos Africa:
<i>The May 20th, 1977,</i>
<i>confrontation jumped off.</i>

357
00:15:54.125 --> 00:15:55.626
<i>I had just came off</i>

358
00:15:55.709 --> 00:15:59.209
from the county prison, um...

359
00:15:59.292 --> 00:16:02.751
I had did a year for
a crime I didn't commit.

360
00:16:02.834 --> 00:16:05.709
The MOVE organization
helped get me out

361
00:16:05.792 --> 00:16:07.959
through the teachings
of John Africa,

362
00:16:08.042 --> 00:16:10.375
and I came home.

363
00:16:10.459 --> 00:16:12.918
<i>And the MOVE members
asked me</i>

364
00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:14.500
<i>did I want to be with them</i>

365
00:16:14.584 --> 00:16:18.209
<i>at the headquarters
on Powelton Avenue,</i>

366
00:16:18.292 --> 00:16:20.667
or did I wanna do things
outside the organization,

367
00:16:20.751 --> 00:16:22.459
outside the headquarters.

368
00:16:22.542 --> 00:16:25.083
And I said I'd rather
be with them inside

369
00:16:25.167 --> 00:16:26.667
of the MOVE headquarters.

370
00:16:26.751 --> 00:16:29.209
Woman:
And there was this
business of warrants

371
00:16:29.292 --> 00:16:32.125
were issued. I don't
know whether it was 11
or the number--

372
00:16:32.209 --> 00:16:35.292
a large number of warrants
were issued for John Doe Africa,

373
00:16:35.375 --> 00:16:37.000
meaning that all of the persons

374
00:16:37.083 --> 00:16:39.459
on the parapet, on the platform

375
00:16:39.542 --> 00:16:43.250
would be arrested
if they came off.

376
00:16:43.334 --> 00:16:45.459
Kitty Caparella:
<i>There's a part of me that</i>
<i>really feels bad for them.</i>

377
00:16:45.542 --> 00:16:49.209
<i>I know that's crazy 'cause
I thought that they were really</i>

378
00:16:49.292 --> 00:16:53.125
<i>harming the city,
and yet they were...</i>

379
00:16:53.959 --> 00:16:55.918
They were kids adrift.

380
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.918
<i>They were kids adrift
who were in a cult and</i>

381
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.042
<i>John Africa
was the cult leader.</i>

382
00:17:02.125 --> 00:17:05.709
Pam Africa:
<i>My mother actually</i>
<i>was trying to hire</i>

383
00:17:05.792 --> 00:17:09.042
<i>a deprogrammer for me</i>

384
00:17:09.125 --> 00:17:11.000
<i>and all, because...</i>

385
00:17:11.083 --> 00:17:13.250
I'm beginning to look like MOVE.

386
00:17:13.334 --> 00:17:14.959
I'm beginning
to look like MOVE,

387
00:17:15.042 --> 00:17:18.292
<i>you know, because I'm learning
something different.</i>

388
00:17:18.375 --> 00:17:21.751
<i>I'm learning that what
I thought I knew I didn't,</i>

389
00:17:21.834 --> 00:17:23.375
and the people

390
00:17:23.459 --> 00:17:26.083
that, you know,
I thought was about

391
00:17:26.167 --> 00:17:30.209
doing the right thing
and, uh, um, they wasn't.

392
00:17:30.876 --> 00:17:31.834
They wasn't.

393
00:17:31.918 --> 00:17:34.626
You had, um, the cops
that was coming,

394
00:17:34.709 --> 00:17:37.042
and there was this
one highway patrolman.

395
00:17:37.125 --> 00:17:40.125
He would say all kinds of things
about the women and stuff,

396
00:17:40.209 --> 00:17:42.626
trying to force people to come
down and get into fights.

397
00:17:42.709 --> 00:17:44.667
I mean, they were just...

398
00:17:45.250 --> 00:17:46.876
vulgar people.

399
00:17:48.292 --> 00:17:50.751
You got in front of them,
they'd just curse you out.

400
00:17:50.834 --> 00:17:52.500
The girls would get down
and do 50 push-ups

401
00:17:52.584 --> 00:17:54.334
and challenge you to do it.

402
00:17:54.417 --> 00:17:55.584
Which we couldn't do.

403
00:17:55.667 --> 00:17:58.459
They say, "We would
kill every last one of you

404
00:17:58.542 --> 00:18:00.959
"lousy no-good niggers,

405
00:18:01.042 --> 00:18:02.709
"spic motherfuckers,

406
00:18:02.792 --> 00:18:04.751
"white trash before we let

407
00:18:04.834 --> 00:18:08.626
any of your people out."
I mean, they was
talking real nasty.

408
00:18:08.709 --> 00:18:11.417
Bob Hurst:
<i>The kids were all naked,</i>

409
00:18:11.500 --> 00:18:13.459
<i>and the women were...</i>

410
00:18:14.334 --> 00:18:16.125
<i>darn near naked.</i>

411
00:18:16.209 --> 00:18:19.751
<i>And the guys never wore
shirts or anything,</i>

412
00:18:19.834 --> 00:18:21.918
<i>and all the time</i>

413
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.626
mouthing off.
That's all they did, loud.

414
00:18:25.709 --> 00:18:28.918
Loud, I mean,
I put in a pair of...

415
00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:30.959
ear things on. I mean,

416
00:18:31.042 --> 00:18:33.834
you just got tired of
listening to it.
Just saying cr--

417
00:18:33.918 --> 00:18:35.584
stuff over and over.

418
00:18:35.667 --> 00:18:38.125
The radical this and that,
blah, blah, blah.

419
00:18:38.209 --> 00:18:41.167
<i>And they're eating raw food.</i>

420
00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:43.542
<i>And then the rats</i>

421
00:18:43.626 --> 00:18:45.459
<i>and cats and dogs</i>

422
00:18:45.542 --> 00:18:47.250
<i>and all of that sort of thing.</i>

423
00:18:47.334 --> 00:18:49.250
<i>I mean, as soon
as you got home,</i>

424
00:18:49.334 --> 00:18:50.918
<i>you had to take
a shower immediately,</i>

425
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.417
<i>even though you weren't
in the compound with them.</i>

426
00:18:54.500 --> 00:18:57.250
It was just filthy,
absolutely filthy.

427
00:18:57.334 --> 00:19:00.000
Man:
<i>These dogs been</i>
<i>picked up just because</i>

428
00:19:00.083 --> 00:19:02.250
<i>they had been rejected
by the society.</i>

429
00:19:02.334 --> 00:19:03.709
<i>We found them homeless,</i>

430
00:19:03.792 --> 00:19:06.209
<i>we found them wandering
the streets, starving.</i>

431
00:19:06.292 --> 00:19:08.459
Walt Palmer:
<i>If we had not begun</i>
<i>to start the process</i>

432
00:19:08.542 --> 00:19:12.125
<i>of getting more people's
eyes on this thing,</i>

433
00:19:12.209 --> 00:19:14.709
I truly believe they
would've been killed.

434
00:19:14.792 --> 00:19:17.667
They would've killed them
without thought or question.

435
00:19:17.751 --> 00:19:19.500
Interviewer:
When you say they,
who do you mean?

436
00:19:19.584 --> 00:19:21.834
Police.
The police, the city.

437
00:19:21.918 --> 00:19:24.792
The community was getting
very concerned because

438
00:19:24.876 --> 00:19:27.167
the police presence started
to grow quite a bit,

439
00:19:27.250 --> 00:19:29.751
and the attention that
was starting to get

440
00:19:29.834 --> 00:19:31.167
locally and nationally.

441
00:19:31.250 --> 00:19:34.209
Reporter:
What about the situation
here as it's been

442
00:19:34.292 --> 00:19:35.959
disturbing the residents,

443
00:19:36.042 --> 00:19:38.000
the eyesore,

444
00:19:38.083 --> 00:19:40.876
uh, the commotion
they've caused.
Does that bother you?

445
00:19:40.959 --> 00:19:43.209
Compared to the possibility
of people getting killed,

446
00:19:43.292 --> 00:19:44.500
that doesn't bother me at all.

447
00:19:44.584 --> 00:19:46.334
I mean,
I would hope that eventually

448
00:19:46.417 --> 00:19:48.167
the community could work
out these differences,

449
00:19:48.250 --> 00:19:51.209
but we don't think
that the police
can provide a solution

450
00:19:51.292 --> 00:19:53.626
because their solution
is with weapons.

451
00:19:53.709 --> 00:19:55.500
Now, you just said
the possibility of people

452
00:19:55.584 --> 00:19:58.083
-getting killed
doesn't bother you.
-No, the possi--

453
00:19:58.167 --> 00:20:00.876
-What do you mean?
-You don't believe that people
will be killed over this?

454
00:20:00.959 --> 00:20:02.584
I don't think that
MOVE has any intention

455
00:20:02.667 --> 00:20:04.209
of hurting people
in the neighborhood.

456
00:20:04.292 --> 00:20:07.542
I think the dispute is
between MOVE and the police.

457
00:20:07.626 --> 00:20:10.334
Do you see yourselves as
negotiators, go-betweens?

458
00:20:10.417 --> 00:20:12.334
No, not really.

459
00:20:12.417 --> 00:20:14.125
MOVE does have
a lawyer right now,

460
00:20:14.209 --> 00:20:16.125
and I think he's
playing that role.

461
00:20:16.209 --> 00:20:20.000
♪ ♪

462
00:20:20.083 --> 00:20:22.626
What would you like me to say?

463
00:20:22.709 --> 00:20:26.334
<i>I did give one interview
to a fellow</i>

464
00:20:26.417 --> 00:20:29.792
<i>who was doing
a book on conflicts</i>

465
00:20:29.876 --> 00:20:31.667
and conflict resolution.

466
00:20:31.751 --> 00:20:34.459
Interviewer:
They use that book
at Carnegie Mellon.

467
00:20:34.542 --> 00:20:36.667
-Really?
-Interviewer: Mm-hmm.

468
00:20:36.751 --> 00:20:38.626
I don't agree
with its philosophy.

469
00:20:38.709 --> 00:20:42.626
I don't think every reso--
every problem can be solved.

470
00:20:42.709 --> 00:20:45.167
I think there are some
problems that are intractable.

471
00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:49.167
Interviewer:
Did you think the MOVE
conflict was one of those?

472
00:20:49.250 --> 00:20:51.042
Not when I started.

473
00:20:51.125 --> 00:20:52.834
<i>As I think I said yesterday</i>

474
00:20:52.918 --> 00:20:55.000
that the gulf between
both sides is so wide,

475
00:20:55.083 --> 00:20:57.834
it's very difficult for either
side to trust the other.

476
00:20:57.918 --> 00:20:59.500
<i>My first involvement
with them was</i>

477
00:20:59.584 --> 00:21:02.709
I was court appointed
as standby counsel

478
00:21:02.792 --> 00:21:06.292
to represent one of
the three defendants who were

479
00:21:06.375 --> 00:21:08.334
being charged with
having created a riot

480
00:21:08.417 --> 00:21:10.167
on the seventh floor
of City Hall.

481
00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:11.834
And got, kinda got to know them,

482
00:21:11.918 --> 00:21:14.167
and I was very curious about

483
00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:15.918
their philosophy

484
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.959
to be able to get society

485
00:21:19.042 --> 00:21:21.000
to address what they considered

486
00:21:21.083 --> 00:21:25.459
to be the main ills
of society, which was
technology.

487
00:21:25.542 --> 00:21:28.751
They felt that man
should return, basically,

488
00:21:28.834 --> 00:21:31.125
to a state of nature.

489
00:21:31.209 --> 00:21:35.292
In my mind, it was almost
like the Lockean philosophy

490
00:21:35.375 --> 00:21:37.250
of a state of nature,

491
00:21:37.334 --> 00:21:39.667
and, of course,
it was totally impractical.

492
00:21:39.751 --> 00:21:42.375
I mean, you know, a city
with millions of people,

493
00:21:42.459 --> 00:21:45.500
there wouldn't be any way
that the city could
properly function.

494
00:21:45.584 --> 00:21:48.626
To have somebody
who was educated,

495
00:21:48.709 --> 00:21:51.209
who should be able to
think things through,

496
00:21:51.292 --> 00:21:54.000
not say, "Wait a minute.
This is just impractical.

497
00:21:54.083 --> 00:21:55.834
I, I can't believe this."

498
00:21:55.918 --> 00:21:58.709
To me was a function of
they were a cult.

499
00:21:58.792 --> 00:22:02.125
They were sold a bill of goods
in the sense of their beliefs.

500
00:22:02.209 --> 00:22:04.792
Now, that doesn't make
them bad people per se.

501
00:22:04.876 --> 00:22:08.876
It just means that
they were basing

502
00:22:08.959 --> 00:22:12.709
their behavior on things
that, at base, to me,

503
00:22:12.792 --> 00:22:15.417
just didn't make sense.

504
00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:18.417
And the rub came because
they were really committed

505
00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:21.459
to those things, and they
were willing to die for them.

506
00:22:23.125 --> 00:22:25.250
Narrator:
<i>Debbie Africa,</i>
<i>wearing the dungarees,</i>

507
00:22:25.334 --> 00:22:27.876
<i>is four months pregnant,
but she can still participate</i>

508
00:22:27.959 --> 00:22:30.250
<i>in the regular activity
that make up the bulk</i>

509
00:22:30.334 --> 00:22:31.709
<i>of the MOVE members' day.</i>

510
00:22:31.792 --> 00:22:33.751
<i>When the time comes for
the baby to be born,</i>

511
00:22:33.834 --> 00:22:35.709
<i>it will come wherever
she happens to be,</i>

512
00:22:35.792 --> 00:22:39.000
<i>without a doctor in attendance,
certainly not in a hospital.</i>

513
00:22:39.083 --> 00:22:42.167
♪ ♪

514
00:22:49.125 --> 00:22:51.751
Mike Africa Jr.:
<i>Once the whole thing</i>
<i>of who is my mother,</i>

515
00:22:51.834 --> 00:22:54.626
<i>that question came
into my mind, and...</i>

516
00:22:55.834 --> 00:22:57.918
<i>I think at that point,
my grandmother</i>

517
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.125
<i>probably felt like
she had to start</i>

518
00:23:00.209 --> 00:23:01.626
<i>inserting some information.</i>

519
00:23:01.709 --> 00:23:05.334
So, you know, she started
talking about it a little bit.

520
00:23:06.542 --> 00:23:08.834
<i>I was born in
House of Correction</i>

521
00:23:08.918 --> 00:23:11.292
<i>in Philadelphia on State Road.</i>

522
00:23:15.417 --> 00:23:18.042
(keys jingling)

523
00:23:18.667 --> 00:23:19.959
(creaking)

524
00:23:24.292 --> 00:23:25.584
<i>So, my mother</i>

525
00:23:25.667 --> 00:23:28.334
<i>when she was arrested
on August 8th, 1978,</i>

526
00:23:28.417 --> 00:23:31.667
<i>she was almost due
to give birth to me.</i>

527
00:23:33.542 --> 00:23:36.792
<i>And so when she did
give birth to me,</i>

528
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.083
<i>it was in a prison cell.</i>

529
00:23:40.167 --> 00:23:43.250
♪ ♪

530
00:23:47.918 --> 00:23:49.834
Right here.

531
00:23:51.959 --> 00:23:54.792
-So this would've
been her cell?
-Guard: Yep.

532
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.125
Nothin' but time.

533
00:24:19.542 --> 00:24:23.876
<i>The first time I actually saw
her was on a prison trip.</i>

534
00:24:23.959 --> 00:24:26.792
<i>And my grandmother
took me to see her.</i>

535
00:24:26.876 --> 00:24:29.042
<i>You know,
I remember thinking like,</i>

536
00:24:29.125 --> 00:24:32.042
<i>hoping that-- (laughing)</i>

537
00:24:32.125 --> 00:24:34.709
<i>I remember hoping
that she looked</i>

538
00:24:34.792 --> 00:24:37.542
<i>the way that I would
want her to look.</i>

539
00:24:37.626 --> 00:24:39.709
When you go into the prison
and you're at the prison,

540
00:24:39.792 --> 00:24:43.667
you see the different people
coming out of the,
out of the prison

541
00:24:43.751 --> 00:24:45.375
into the visiting room.

542
00:24:45.459 --> 00:24:47.125
And the way it was
set up was like

543
00:24:47.209 --> 00:24:49.417
a set of steps that went up

544
00:24:50.542 --> 00:24:53.292
like maybe six or seven steps

545
00:24:53.375 --> 00:24:55.000
that they have to come down

546
00:24:55.083 --> 00:24:57.792
to come into the visiting room.

547
00:24:57.876 --> 00:25:00.459
And when she...
(laughs) when--

548
00:25:00.542 --> 00:25:03.083
before she came
out of that area,

549
00:25:03.167 --> 00:25:06.334
there was all these other women
that came out before her, right?

550
00:25:06.417 --> 00:25:09.250
Different women just coming out.
Black ones, white ones,

551
00:25:09.334 --> 00:25:12.584
tall ones, shorter ones.
Just different people.

552
00:25:12.667 --> 00:25:15.417
I remember looking at them
thinking, that ain't her.

553
00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:18.334
And then when she came out,
I remember thinking,

554
00:25:18.417 --> 00:25:21.292
"I hope that's her.
I hope that's her."

555
00:25:21.375 --> 00:25:24.417
♪ ♪

556
00:25:28.292 --> 00:25:30.250
Rizzo:
<i>MOVE is nothing special.</i>

557
00:25:30.334 --> 00:25:32.918
<i>They've gotten away with it
because we're compassionate</i>

558
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.083
<i>and we don't wanna
hurt innocent people,</i>

559
00:25:35.167 --> 00:25:36.876
<i>particularly the children.</i>

560
00:25:36.959 --> 00:25:39.375
We'll do everything we can to

561
00:25:39.459 --> 00:25:41.459
come to a peaceful ending.

562
00:25:41.542 --> 00:25:45.500
But I also wanna tell you,
as an old retired police chief,

563
00:25:45.584 --> 00:25:49.083
that if they fire at
any of our police,

564
00:25:49.167 --> 00:25:50.792
that we will retaliate in kind,

565
00:25:50.876 --> 00:25:52.542
and I can assure you,
they're going to lose.

566
00:25:52.626 --> 00:25:55.292
Craig McCoy:
<i>The city's tabloid, the</i>
<i>"Philadelphia Daily News,"</i>

567
00:25:55.375 --> 00:25:57.083
<i>played a role in this
too because they ran</i>

568
00:25:57.167 --> 00:26:00.209
<i>a sort of investigative
story reporting</i>

569
00:26:00.292 --> 00:26:02.959
<i>all the overtime that had been
accumulated as the police</i>

570
00:26:03.042 --> 00:26:04.918
<i>staked out the house
and watched it.</i>

571
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:08.000
The tone of the "Daily News"
story was that this was a...

572
00:26:09.417 --> 00:26:12.083
a mistake on the part of
the Rizzo administration,

573
00:26:12.167 --> 00:26:14.209
that they had not taken action.

574
00:26:14.292 --> 00:26:16.751
<i>But it had an impact,
and I think</i>

575
00:26:16.834 --> 00:26:19.626
<i>spurred
the confrontation onward.</i>

576
00:26:19.709 --> 00:26:21.167
Rizzo:
<i>We're gonna put</i>
<i>the blockade in.</i>

577
00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:24.542
We're gonna shut off
all utilities.

578
00:26:24.626 --> 00:26:27.209
<i>They'll be not
a fly gets through.</i>

579
00:26:27.292 --> 00:26:28.918
Reporter:
<i>The Pennsylvania</i>
<i>Supreme Court has upheld</i>

580
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.918
Philadelphia's request to
blockade MOVE's headquarters.

581
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:34.542
This ends many weeks of legal
maneuvering and allows the city

582
00:26:34.626 --> 00:26:37.334
to starve the group out of
its West Philadelphia house.

583
00:26:37.417 --> 00:26:40.626
For the last six hours or so
since about 6:00 this morning,

584
00:26:40.709 --> 00:26:43.292
MOVE has been cut off
from the rest of the city

585
00:26:43.375 --> 00:26:46.417
by this not-so-familiar,
but I guess it's going to be,

586
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:49.292
police barricade,
A wooden barricade set up here

587
00:26:49.375 --> 00:26:52.292
to make sure that no water,
no food, no nothing

588
00:26:52.375 --> 00:26:53.918
got through to the MOVE members.

589
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.918
So I guess at this point,
MOVE's back-to-nature philosophy

590
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.876
is really being put to a test.

591
00:26:58.959 --> 00:27:01.709
They're down to the bare
minimum, which is survival.

592
00:27:01.792 --> 00:27:04.918
Then, on the other hand,
there's no telling how long

593
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.167
<i>they can stay inside
that headquarters.</i>

594
00:27:07.250 --> 00:27:09.417
♪ ♪

595
00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:10.626
Reporter:
<i>I heard a little while ago</i>

596
00:27:10.709 --> 00:27:12.709
<i>three people come up
to the barricade,</i>

597
00:27:12.792 --> 00:27:14.083
<i>said they lived inside.</i>

598
00:27:14.167 --> 00:27:16.125
<i>The police said,
"Where's your identification?"</i>

599
00:27:16.209 --> 00:27:18.667
<i>They said, "We don't
have any identification."</i>

600
00:27:18.751 --> 00:27:21.083
<i>The police said,
"You're not getting in."</i>

601
00:27:21.167 --> 00:27:24.209
Woman:
<i>"1984" has arrived.</i>
<i>I now know what it's like</i>

602
00:27:24.292 --> 00:27:27.209
to be a white person
in South Africa.

603
00:27:27.292 --> 00:27:28.792
I am surrounded by police.

604
00:27:28.876 --> 00:27:31.250
My friend, Sister Betty
over here, who's a friend,

605
00:27:31.334 --> 00:27:34.292
is not being allowed
into the blockade.

606
00:27:34.375 --> 00:27:37.250
In order to get into your home,

607
00:27:37.334 --> 00:27:39.542
you had to show ID.

608
00:27:39.626 --> 00:27:42.042
<i>And on me, a lot of times,
I had my ID,</i>

609
00:27:42.125 --> 00:27:43.792
<i>I couldn't get in.
My children couldn't get in.</i>

610
00:27:43.876 --> 00:27:46.500
<i>They were saying they
was putting a blockade up</i>

611
00:27:46.584 --> 00:27:48.500
<i>to blockade MOVE in.</i>

612
00:27:48.584 --> 00:27:51.918
<i>But it was actually to
blockade the people out.</i>

613
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:54.876
Woman:
<i>There is no way that</i>
<i>a resolution can occur</i>

614
00:27:54.959 --> 00:27:56.667
<i>with constant
police harassment,</i>

615
00:27:56.751 --> 00:27:58.918
<i>with 400 police in
the area, with SWAT teams</i>

616
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.792
<i>sitting up with
high-powered rifles,
looking down on MOVE,</i>

617
00:28:02.876 --> 00:28:05.584
and with the police
currently antagonizing MOVE

618
00:28:05.667 --> 00:28:08.125
by throwing various
kinds of objects at them.

619
00:28:08.209 --> 00:28:11.125
Okay, Diane, thank you. Jack,
there is the possibility...

620
00:28:11.209 --> 00:28:13.918
Pam Africa:
<i>The cops would throw</i>
<i>cherry pickers,</i>

621
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.042
<i>and throw rocks,</i>

622
00:28:16.125 --> 00:28:19.209
and what this was doing
for me and a lot of people,

623
00:28:19.292 --> 00:28:22.125
the belief that we had
in this government,

624
00:28:22.209 --> 00:28:23.542
was slowly leaving.

625
00:28:23.626 --> 00:28:26.751
<i>People wanted to come and do
what they could about MOVE,</i>

626
00:28:26.834 --> 00:28:29.542
<i>and I wound up opening my
house for these meetings.</i>

627
00:28:29.626 --> 00:28:33.042
<i>My house had white folks in it,
it had Asian folks in it,</i>

628
00:28:33.125 --> 00:28:35.584
<i>it had Black folks in it,
nationalists. I mean,</i>

629
00:28:35.667 --> 00:28:37.751
it had some of
everybody in there.

630
00:28:37.834 --> 00:28:39.959
They were all coming together

631
00:28:40.042 --> 00:28:41.626
to see what they
could do to help.

632
00:28:41.709 --> 00:28:44.292
<i>We wound up having
meetings at a church,</i>

633
00:28:44.375 --> 00:28:47.542
<i>I think it's 35th and Baring
or 36th and Baring.</i>

634
00:28:47.626 --> 00:28:49.834
Reporter:
<i>About 150 people</i>
<i>called for mobilizing</i>

635
00:28:49.918 --> 00:28:52.167
<i>against the city's blockade
of the MOVE headquarters</i>

636
00:28:52.250 --> 00:28:54.751
<i>in Powelton Village.
Most of those at the church</i>

637
00:28:54.834 --> 00:28:56.584
<i>were against the city's action.</i>

638
00:28:56.667 --> 00:28:58.918
Palmer:
<i>People were divided,</i>
<i>pro and con.</i>

639
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:00.334
<i>I knew I had to use</i>

640
00:29:00.417 --> 00:29:02.709
<i>a lot of the tactics
and strategies we'd used</i>

641
00:29:02.792 --> 00:29:05.959
historically,
since '50s and '60s,

642
00:29:06.042 --> 00:29:08.000
<i>to, um, to engage people.</i>

643
00:29:08.083 --> 00:29:11.250
<i>We literally made
a human chain, two-deep,</i>

644
00:29:11.334 --> 00:29:14.042
<i>and it was, it was--
it resonated.</i>

645
00:29:14.125 --> 00:29:16.542
<i>And it got people's attention.</i>

646
00:29:16.626 --> 00:29:19.000
I believe the mayor's trying
to deny basic human rights

647
00:29:19.083 --> 00:29:20.834
and constitutional
rights to MOVE.

648
00:29:20.918 --> 00:29:23.167
He's starving people.
I don't believe
that's happening

649
00:29:23.250 --> 00:29:24.792
in the United States of America.

650
00:29:24.876 --> 00:29:26.751
Caparella:
<i>People went nuts</i>

651
00:29:26.834 --> 00:29:30.042
<i>because they wanted this
confrontation to end.</i>

652
00:29:30.125 --> 00:29:32.459
So there was this attempt

653
00:29:32.542 --> 00:29:35.292
to try to negotiate
an end to it.

654
00:29:35.375 --> 00:29:36.876
I mean,
the city is really trying.

655
00:29:36.959 --> 00:29:39.417
The mayor has bent backwards
as far as making sure

656
00:29:39.500 --> 00:29:41.959
a whole humanitarian
approach is given.

657
00:29:42.042 --> 00:29:45.292
And it basically rests
with them at this time.

658
00:29:45.375 --> 00:29:47.959
Carlos:
<i>The first demand</i>
<i>was that our people</i>

659
00:29:48.042 --> 00:29:50.667
that are in state
prison be released,

660
00:29:50.751 --> 00:29:52.459
unconditionally,

661
00:29:52.542 --> 00:29:55.459
and brought in a helicopter
with Jimmy Carter.

662
00:29:55.542 --> 00:29:57.751
Joel Todd:
<i>MOVE's position was we</i>
<i>want these three released</i>

663
00:29:57.834 --> 00:30:00.042
<i>from prison.
The city's position was
well, you gotta clean up</i>

664
00:30:00.125 --> 00:30:01.876
<i>the house or you gotta leave.
It's one or the other.</i>

665
00:30:01.959 --> 00:30:03.500
<i>They kept talking
past each other,</i>

666
00:30:03.584 --> 00:30:05.500
and MOVE never did anything

667
00:30:05.584 --> 00:30:07.626
to clean up the house
that I was aware of.

668
00:30:07.709 --> 00:30:09.334
Carlos:
<i>In the first month,</i>

669
00:30:09.417 --> 00:30:11.709
<i>our water supply did run out.</i>

670
00:30:11.792 --> 00:30:13.709
And we was telling them

671
00:30:13.792 --> 00:30:16.334
that we have no more food
to feed our babies.

672
00:30:16.417 --> 00:30:18.542
Reporter:
The food is only for the nursing
mothers and the babies?

673
00:30:18.626 --> 00:30:20.459
-Fred DiBona Jr.:<i> That's right.</i>
-Reporter:<i> Not for the adults?</i>

674
00:30:20.542 --> 00:30:24.250
-DiBona:<i> No, sir.</i>
-Reporter:<i> But the adults</i>
<i>may consume it.</i>

675
00:30:24.334 --> 00:30:25.834
That's their problem.
If they wanna deprive

676
00:30:25.918 --> 00:30:27.876
their children of food,
that's for them to decide.

677
00:30:27.959 --> 00:30:31.042
♪ ♪

678
00:30:37.792 --> 00:30:39.334
John Penrose:
<i>The city can't do nothing</i>

679
00:30:39.417 --> 00:30:42.250
<i>in the face of
some of the things</i>

680
00:30:42.334 --> 00:30:43.709
that were going on
in that house.

681
00:30:43.792 --> 00:30:46.000
There were public health issues.

682
00:30:46.083 --> 00:30:50.292
There was a lot of
other sanitation stuff, uh.

683
00:30:50.375 --> 00:30:53.250
You couldn't do nothing,
but you don't do what

684
00:30:53.334 --> 00:30:55.459
the Philadelphia PD did.

685
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.584
<i>That was crazy.</i>

686
00:31:03.792 --> 00:31:05.834
We had these things.
When I was a kid,

687
00:31:05.918 --> 00:31:08.125
me and my dad,
every so often,

688
00:31:08.209 --> 00:31:10.292
these ideas that we had about
what was gonna happen when

689
00:31:10.375 --> 00:31:14.417
they came home
would change, right?
So, when I was like...

690
00:31:14.500 --> 00:31:16.667
10 years old,
it was always this thing of

691
00:31:16.751 --> 00:31:18.626
<i>he's gonna teach me
how to play basketball.</i>

692
00:31:18.709 --> 00:31:19.959
<i>He's gonna teach me
how to play football.</i>

693
00:31:20.042 --> 00:31:21.959
<i>He's gonna teach me these,
you know, these things that</i>

694
00:31:22.042 --> 00:31:24.334
<i>10-year-olds do, right?
From like when
I was a teenager,</i>

695
00:31:24.417 --> 00:31:27.918
<i>mid teenager to-- he's gonna
teach me how to talk to girls,</i>

696
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:30.876
<i>he's gonna teach me
how to, like, do business
and build-- and help</i>

697
00:31:30.959 --> 00:31:34.250
<i>the organization in that way.
And as time went on,</i>

698
00:31:34.334 --> 00:31:37.125
<i>now it was, okay,
you got kids.
You're 20-something.</i>

699
00:31:37.209 --> 00:31:39.250
<i>Right. You're having kids,
I'm gonna help you
raise your kids,</i>

700
00:31:39.334 --> 00:31:41.417
<i>and when we get home,
we'll help you do this</i>

701
00:31:41.500 --> 00:31:43.459
<i>and we'll do this together.</i>

702
00:31:43.542 --> 00:31:46.000
<i>Into the 30s, it was, we'll
build a business together.</i>

703
00:31:46.083 --> 00:31:48.751
<i>And these things would
change every decade,</i>

704
00:31:48.834 --> 00:31:50.876
<i>you'd get these other stories</i>

705
00:31:50.959 --> 00:31:53.250
<i>that these are
the plans that you have</i>

706
00:31:53.334 --> 00:31:54.876
<i>when this day comes.</i>

707
00:31:54.959 --> 00:31:58.042
<i>And, um, now,
we're into the...</i>

708
00:31:58.125 --> 00:32:00.167
you know, um,
I'll take care--

709
00:32:00.250 --> 00:32:02.167
I will take care of my father.

710
00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:03.876
I will make sure that he has

711
00:32:03.959 --> 00:32:06.375
the things that he needs
to live out his life

712
00:32:06.459 --> 00:32:08.500
happy and stress-free,

713
00:32:08.584 --> 00:32:11.876
and, you know,
this is where that's going.

714
00:32:11.959 --> 00:32:15.626
Within the next 10 years,
it'll probably be something like

715
00:32:15.709 --> 00:32:19.167
I'll make sure he has
a good burial plot.

716
00:32:19.250 --> 00:32:21.876
I'll make sure
he has a good, um,

717
00:32:21.959 --> 00:32:24.542
a good memorial service.

718
00:32:24.626 --> 00:32:26.792
I'll make sure that all
the people that he loved

719
00:32:26.876 --> 00:32:29.667
and that loved him
is at his memorial,

720
00:32:29.751 --> 00:32:32.459
and the people
who, who, who didn't

721
00:32:32.542 --> 00:32:34.792
will not get an invitation
'cause I'll tell you one thing

722
00:32:34.876 --> 00:32:37.125
about my father.
If I know anything about him,

723
00:32:37.209 --> 00:32:39.751
I know he do not
mess with people

724
00:32:39.834 --> 00:32:42.250
who talk a bunch of shit
and do nothing.

725
00:32:43.417 --> 00:32:45.959
But that's where we're going.

726
00:32:46.042 --> 00:32:49.542
I mean, what can I say about,
what can I do about that?

727
00:32:49.626 --> 00:32:52.417
Except just keep on pushing.

728
00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:54.709
(static)

729
00:32:54.792 --> 00:32:57.542
(indistinct chatter)

730
00:32:57.626 --> 00:33:00.709
♪ ♪

731
00:33:09.083 --> 00:33:12.209
(inaudible)

732
00:33:13.459 --> 00:33:15.334
Palmer:
<i>We got people who were strong,</i>

733
00:33:15.417 --> 00:33:18.000
<i>not just local grassroots
everyday people,</i>

734
00:33:18.083 --> 00:33:19.918
but we built an army

735
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.751
of people in every level.

736
00:33:21.834 --> 00:33:25.125
<i>I mean, the most powerful
people in business.</i>

737
00:33:25.209 --> 00:33:27.417
<i>The most powerful
people in the pulpit,</i>

738
00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:29.500
<i>in education and law.</i>

739
00:33:29.584 --> 00:33:32.834
<i>I pulled in Oscar Gaskins,
who I law clerked for.</i>

740
00:33:32.918 --> 00:33:35.083
<i>People who might not
have an interest in MOVE,</i>

741
00:33:35.167 --> 00:33:37.083
<i>but might have an interest in</i>

742
00:33:37.167 --> 00:33:38.959
<i>the constitutional
questions, right?</i>

743
00:33:39.042 --> 00:33:42.083
<i>And all of this really allowed
us to give us leverage.</i>

744
00:33:42.167 --> 00:33:45.375
<i>The mayor couldn't go
against the forces of, like,</i>

745
00:33:45.459 --> 00:33:49.209
<i>you know, the, the, the large
business interests</i>

746
00:33:49.292 --> 00:33:51.125
<i>that were here in
the city of Philadelphia,</i>

747
00:33:51.209 --> 00:33:53.918
and the large legal
institutions, etc.

748
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.459
Carlos Africa:
<i>Every week,</i>

749
00:33:55.542 --> 00:33:58.209
<i>the support from
the people outside,</i>

750
00:33:58.292 --> 00:33:59.626
<i>all over the world,</i>

751
00:33:59.709 --> 00:34:04.709
<i>and in Philadelphia
intensified
and got so, so big</i>

752
00:34:04.792 --> 00:34:07.125
<i>that, eventually,</i>

753
00:34:07.209 --> 00:34:10.042
the city officials came
to us and asked us

754
00:34:10.125 --> 00:34:12.000
what do we want

755
00:34:12.083 --> 00:34:14.125
to end this confrontation.

756
00:34:14.209 --> 00:34:17.083
And we told them. We said,
"Y'all have our demands.

757
00:34:17.167 --> 00:34:19.876
That our people be
released unconditionally."

758
00:34:19.959 --> 00:34:22.792
All this time,
Rizzo had been saying

759
00:34:22.876 --> 00:34:25.834
that MOVE had
underground tunnels.

760
00:34:25.918 --> 00:34:27.167
They had bombs.

761
00:34:27.250 --> 00:34:29.626
They had all this
high-powered weaponry.

762
00:34:29.709 --> 00:34:32.167
That is what's happening,
and it's happening right now.

763
00:34:32.250 --> 00:34:33.626
Police are inside
MOVE headquarters

764
00:34:33.709 --> 00:34:36.834
in West Philadelphia conducting
an intensive search for weapons.

765
00:34:36.918 --> 00:34:39.792
Don Fair and
the Live Instant Eye
are standing by at the scene

766
00:34:39.876 --> 00:34:41.459
and Don, how is
that search going?

767
00:34:41.542 --> 00:34:42.751
The Philadelphia
Police Department

768
00:34:42.834 --> 00:34:45.125
are going inch by inch
through the MOVE compound

769
00:34:45.209 --> 00:34:47.500
with metal detectors
and with other devices

770
00:34:47.584 --> 00:34:50.167
trying to find any weapons
that might still be inside.

771
00:34:50.250 --> 00:34:52.042
Reporter:
<i>What does the mood</i>
<i>seem to be</i>

772
00:34:52.125 --> 00:34:54.000
<i>down there at MOVE
headquarters right now?</i>

773
00:34:54.083 --> 00:34:56.500
Don Fair: The MOVE members
who are on the porch
seemed to be a little testy,

774
00:34:56.584 --> 00:34:57.959
seemed to be
a little bit upset.

775
00:34:58.042 --> 00:35:01.375
They seemed to be apprehensive
that maybe the police will find

776
00:35:01.459 --> 00:35:04.542
some more weapons.
That's the mood down there,
and right now,

777
00:35:04.626 --> 00:35:06.584
we're just waiting to see
what they come up with.

778
00:35:06.667 --> 00:35:08.375
Well, the search
wound up showing

779
00:35:08.459 --> 00:35:11.375
that there was no
real illegal weapons.

780
00:35:11.459 --> 00:35:13.417
And what they found
in there were weapons

781
00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:15.542
that, for the most part,
were damaged,

782
00:35:15.626 --> 00:35:17.709
firing pins not--
So, it was...

783
00:35:17.792 --> 00:35:21.542
It really was a ruse
in many ways, right?

784
00:35:21.626 --> 00:35:22.626
And a clever one.

785
00:35:22.709 --> 00:35:25.876
There was no tunnels.
There was no bombs.

786
00:35:25.959 --> 00:35:28.834
There was nothing but
the explosive power

787
00:35:28.918 --> 00:35:31.542
of John Africa that had radiated

788
00:35:31.626 --> 00:35:34.959
around the world
for people to see

789
00:35:35.042 --> 00:35:38.125
who MOVE is and who they are.

790
00:35:38.209 --> 00:35:39.584
Do you recognize these people

791
00:35:39.667 --> 00:35:41.626
and the things that they're
holding in their hands?

792
00:35:41.709 --> 00:35:44.584
Sims:
Exactly, appear to be weapons,
and I don't want anyone

793
00:35:44.667 --> 00:35:47.042
to think that I'm insulting
their intelligence.

794
00:35:47.125 --> 00:35:48.417
You know, you may say

795
00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:52.125
she's got to think we're crazy.
There they are standing there

796
00:35:52.209 --> 00:35:54.167
with weapons,
and she's saying that

797
00:35:54.250 --> 00:35:55.584
they are not weapons,

798
00:35:55.667 --> 00:35:58.626
and I base that on the fact that

799
00:35:58.709 --> 00:36:01.167
they searched
309 and 307.

800
00:36:01.250 --> 00:36:03.751
They went up and down
the walls and everywhere,

801
00:36:03.834 --> 00:36:05.167
from the cellar to the roof,

802
00:36:05.250 --> 00:36:06.834
but what they brought out

803
00:36:06.918 --> 00:36:10.876
were inoperable weapons.

804
00:36:10.959 --> 00:36:14.584
Carlos Africa:
<i>They met our demands except...</i>

805
00:36:14.667 --> 00:36:17.250
<i>that Jimmy Carter didn't
come in a helicopter.</i>

806
00:36:17.334 --> 00:36:20.626
(clapping, cheering)

807
00:36:20.709 --> 00:36:23.125
Palmer:
<i>We had also knocked out</i>

808
00:36:23.209 --> 00:36:27.542
an agreement that there'd
be a 90-day truce.

809
00:36:27.626 --> 00:36:31.125
<i>We wanna disengage
these wires and fences.</i>

810
00:36:31.209 --> 00:36:33.209
<i>That's coming down, right?</i>

811
00:36:33.292 --> 00:36:37.375
<i>So for 90 days,
there was a quiet, right?</i>

812
00:36:37.459 --> 00:36:41.500
-Reporter: Are you glad
that this process is over?
-Uh...

813
00:36:41.584 --> 00:36:43.709
It's not over really.
I'm saying, like, um,

814
00:36:43.792 --> 00:36:46.667
until the city stop
harassing MOVE members,

815
00:36:46.751 --> 00:36:49.584
until like, uh, they stop
the continuing harassment,

816
00:36:49.667 --> 00:36:51.334
then it'll never be over.

817
00:36:51.417 --> 00:36:52.834
And then what happened was

818
00:36:52.918 --> 00:36:55.292
<i>City Solicitor
Sheldon Albert said,</i>

819
00:36:55.375 --> 00:36:58.083
<i>and I think this really
triggered it and rekindled it,</i>

820
00:36:58.167 --> 00:36:59.918
"On the 91st day,

821
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:03.792
we intend to tear down
those two buildings."

822
00:37:03.876 --> 00:37:07.375
<i>Well, when he said that,
everything came apart.</i>

823
00:37:07.459 --> 00:37:10.959
The community was
enjoying a solid peace.

824
00:37:11.042 --> 00:37:12.918
You filed for
an injunction?

825
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.083
Palmer:
The injunction is only to make
sure that house stays intact,

826
00:37:16.167 --> 00:37:19.000
to prevent anybody from
touching one brick.

827
00:37:19.083 --> 00:37:20.918
Washington:
<i>From the starvation blockade,</i>

828
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.250
there was some agreements,
some of them written,

829
00:37:23.334 --> 00:37:25.709
some of them
allegedly understood.

830
00:37:25.792 --> 00:37:28.459
So, one of them was that

831
00:37:28.542 --> 00:37:31.375
MOVE would be allowed
to stay in that house

832
00:37:31.459 --> 00:37:34.459
until they were
able to move out.

833
00:37:34.542 --> 00:37:37.667
Rizzo and his crew
contended that

834
00:37:37.751 --> 00:37:40.918
they were supposed to be out
of the house on August the 1st.

835
00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:44.167
That really wasn't a clear
understanding from everybody,

836
00:37:44.250 --> 00:37:48.083
and that August 1st
date of getting out

837
00:37:48.167 --> 00:37:50.000
again led to Rizzo

838
00:37:50.083 --> 00:37:51.876
<i>to do some extralegal actions.</i>

839
00:37:51.959 --> 00:37:54.626
Sue Africa:
<i>And these restrictions</i>
<i>were put on us by DiBona,</i>

840
00:37:54.709 --> 00:37:57.167
not by the judges
that released us.

841
00:37:57.250 --> 00:37:59.459
And we're saying this
is another reason why

842
00:37:59.542 --> 00:38:01.334
we feel certain that
DiBona is trying

843
00:38:01.417 --> 00:38:03.042
to instigate another
confrontation.

844
00:38:03.125 --> 00:38:06.042
Anything other than terms
of the original agreement

845
00:38:06.125 --> 00:38:08.125
will not be abided by
by MOVE members.

846
00:38:08.209 --> 00:38:10.459
Sue Africa:
<i>We said that we</i>
<i>had to have time</i>

847
00:38:10.542 --> 00:38:12.292
<i>to find homes for our animals</i>

848
00:38:12.375 --> 00:38:15.375
<i>because we had
a lot of animals,
and they gave us 90 days</i>

849
00:38:15.459 --> 00:38:17.209
<i>at first, and they...</i>

850
00:38:17.292 --> 00:38:19.375
<i>We couldn't just leave our
animals there, so we said</i>

851
00:38:19.459 --> 00:38:22.918
we want an extension. They
would not give us an extension,

852
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:25.876
which is what led
to them coming out.

853
00:38:25.959 --> 00:38:27.542
I know good and well
that Frank Rizzo,

854
00:38:27.626 --> 00:38:29.417
if he didn't sign off on it,
it wouldn't have happened.

855
00:38:29.500 --> 00:38:32.334
So we were really negotiating
with Frank Rizzo, Mayor Rizzo,

856
00:38:32.417 --> 00:38:35.709
behind the scenes using
these intermediaries.

857
00:38:35.792 --> 00:38:38.167
My dad set tough rules,

858
00:38:38.250 --> 00:38:41.334
and you played the game by
his rules or you didn't play.

859
00:38:41.417 --> 00:38:44.709
There was no free
or open forum, you know.

860
00:38:44.792 --> 00:38:46.167
No. Pop is not gonna...

861
00:38:46.250 --> 00:38:49.042
Boom, you got
knocked down,
you know, and...

862
00:38:49.626 --> 00:38:50.667
Good system.

863
00:38:50.751 --> 00:38:53.375
He was easily agitated,
much like Trump is.

864
00:38:53.459 --> 00:38:55.709
He's easily agitated.
People kinda know

865
00:38:55.792 --> 00:38:59.000
how to get to him, what
buttons to push, right?

866
00:38:59.083 --> 00:39:01.000
So, so just escalate
more and more.

867
00:39:01.083 --> 00:39:03.125
-Woman: We saying
we getting rid of Rizzo.
-Man: That's right.

868
00:39:03.209 --> 00:39:05.083
We saying we tired
of that man coming

869
00:39:05.167 --> 00:39:07.959
and taking his racism
and spewing it on Blacks.

870
00:39:08.042 --> 00:39:09.751
We saying we know
that he's racist.

871
00:39:09.834 --> 00:39:12.292
He knows that we're right,
and we know we right.

872
00:39:12.375 --> 00:39:15.083
He know it.
He knows we innocent.
He knows we committed.

873
00:39:15.167 --> 00:39:18.125
-He wanna be racist, we got all
Black members inside of here.
-Man: That's right!

874
00:39:18.209 --> 00:39:20.834
We don't have no whites
inside of here.
And we saying the door

875
00:39:20.918 --> 00:39:23.000
is open 'cause we know he
coming down here to kill.

876
00:39:23.083 --> 00:39:25.667
If he come to our front door,
we know he coming in here

877
00:39:25.751 --> 00:39:27.459
with the intentions to kill
'cause we done told him

878
00:39:27.542 --> 00:39:30.709
if he come inside our house,
he gonna murder
everybody in here.

879
00:39:30.792 --> 00:39:33.083
Not like we wanna die,
but rather than have a man

880
00:39:33.167 --> 00:39:36.709
like Rizzo dictate our lives,
make us unhealthy,

881
00:39:36.792 --> 00:39:39.959
make us sick and kill
any more of our babies,
we'd rather be dead.

882
00:39:40.042 --> 00:39:44.000
'Cause to be free is not to be
so-called living on this level.

883
00:39:44.083 --> 00:39:46.500
It's to be free of
the oppressive power

884
00:39:46.584 --> 00:39:49.375
of a maniac like Rizzo.

885
00:39:49.459 --> 00:39:51.918
What they need is a good bath
and some soap and water

886
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.667
-in their mouth,
and I can tell you that...
-(applause)

887
00:39:57.167 --> 00:39:59.167
unequivocally, Hank,

888
00:39:59.250 --> 00:40:02.209
they're going to go
either easy or hard way.

889
00:40:02.292 --> 00:40:03.959
That can be standing up
or laying down.

890
00:40:04.042 --> 00:40:05.918
Caparella:
<i>Every night on TV, Rizzo was</i>

891
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:09.250
<i>taunting them and they
were taunting Rizzo.</i>

892
00:40:09.334 --> 00:40:10.834
The problem was...

893
00:40:10.918 --> 00:40:14.000
♪ ♪

894
00:40:17.167 --> 00:40:18.959
the cops had more firepower.

895
00:40:19.042 --> 00:40:22.209
Official:
<i>And now this second</i>
<i>day of August, 1978,</i>

896
00:40:22.292 --> 00:40:25.167
<i>upon consideration
of the then petition</i>

897
00:40:25.250 --> 00:40:27.792
and accompanying affidavits
and upon mention

898
00:40:27.876 --> 00:40:30.209
of Sheldon A. Albert,
City Solicitor,

899
00:40:30.292 --> 00:40:33.000
attorney for the plaintiff
with petitioner,

900
00:40:33.083 --> 00:40:35.500
a rule is hereby granted upon

901
00:40:35.584 --> 00:40:38.417
Janet Holloway, Consuela Dotson,

902
00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:40.083
Janine Africa,

903
00:40:40.167 --> 00:40:42.709
-Charles Sims...
-Delbert Africa: Talking
about legalized murder!

904
00:40:42.792 --> 00:40:46.167
-Every time you civilized
maniacs murder...
-Merle Austin,

905
00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:48.584
-...shipped Jews in gas ovens,
-Phillip Smith, Delbert Orr,

906
00:40:48.667 --> 00:40:51.292
-you had legal papers!
-Carlos Perez,
Debbie Zelda Sims,

907
00:40:51.375 --> 00:40:53.334
-In the Korean War...
-Michael Davis,

908
00:40:53.417 --> 00:40:56.792
Raymond Chester,
Robert Moses...

909
00:40:56.876 --> 00:40:59.959
Rizzo:
<i>...at 12:01 AM,</i>
<i>the police will be in there</i>

910
00:41:00.042 --> 00:41:02.250
to drag them out by
the backs of their necks.

911
00:41:02.334 --> 00:41:04.876
There will be
a confrontation this time.
There'll be no barricade.

912
00:41:04.959 --> 00:41:07.709
I don't know.
It's up to them whether--
No barricades, Mike.

913
00:41:07.792 --> 00:41:12.083
They're going to be taken
by force if they resist.

914
00:41:12.167 --> 00:41:13.500
No question about that.

915
00:41:13.584 --> 00:41:16.375
<i>-Children or not.</i>
-(indistinct chatter)

916
00:41:16.459 --> 00:41:18.709
Reporter:
<i>Do you feel that MOVE has</i>
<i>been treated fairly in this?</i>

917
00:41:18.792 --> 00:41:20.167
Oscar Gaskins:
<i>Well, I think that they've</i>

918
00:41:20.250 --> 00:41:21.542
<i>been treated
particularly unfairly</i>

919
00:41:21.626 --> 00:41:24.042
in the sense that they
are now on $50,000 bail,

920
00:41:24.125 --> 00:41:26.500
and wherever they may be
found in and around the city,

921
00:41:26.584 --> 00:41:28.459
they're going to be arrested.

922
00:41:28.542 --> 00:41:31.000
The same kind of thing that
had happened to them before

923
00:41:31.083 --> 00:41:33.709
when they got arrested is going
to happen to them this time,

924
00:41:33.792 --> 00:41:36.500
and I think that it was
totally unnecessary.

925
00:41:36.584 --> 00:41:38.417
Ed Rendell:
<i>The press would go</i>
<i>out to the house</i>

926
00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:41.167
<i>with microphones and cameras,
and the MOVE members,</i>

927
00:41:41.250 --> 00:41:43.709
every other word
was the F-bomb.

928
00:41:43.792 --> 00:41:46.417
They were so aggressive

929
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:49.626
and so violent and so angry.

930
00:41:49.709 --> 00:41:51.751
Nobody sided with them.

931
00:41:51.834 --> 00:41:54.751
That's why you say...

932
00:41:54.834 --> 00:41:58.542
every event takes place in
the context of its time.

933
00:41:58.626 --> 00:42:01.417
Had that happened today,

934
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:03.876
people would've gone wild.

935
00:42:03.959 --> 00:42:06.334
There were these two forces.

936
00:42:06.417 --> 00:42:09.626
<i>There was MOVE,
and there was Rizzo.</i>

937
00:42:09.709 --> 00:42:13.042
<i>They were complete opposites,</i>

938
00:42:13.125 --> 00:42:16.334
<i>and whatever you wrote,
you were gonna get flak</i>

939
00:42:16.417 --> 00:42:17.709
<i>from the other side.</i>

940
00:42:17.792 --> 00:42:19.709
Michael Tuck:
<i>If either side felt that</i>

941
00:42:19.792 --> 00:42:21.626
<i>we were doing a superior job,</i>

942
00:42:21.709 --> 00:42:24.542
then in fact, we probably would
not be doing a superior job.

943
00:42:24.626 --> 00:42:26.417
Both sides are down on us.

944
00:42:26.500 --> 00:42:29.626
-Karen Pomer: What are
you trying to accomplish?
-Trying to tell the truth.

945
00:42:29.709 --> 00:42:32.751
Pomer:
I don't think you really ever
put on the media what MOVE

946
00:42:32.834 --> 00:42:34.542
<i>really stands for.</i>

947
00:42:34.626 --> 00:42:38.042
Charles Peruto Jr.:
<i>No one saw any message that</i>
<i>MOVE was trying to convey.</i>

948
00:42:38.125 --> 00:42:40.000
<i>This was a counter-culture</i>

949
00:42:40.083 --> 00:42:42.292
<i>Philadelphia
hadn't seen before.</i>

950
00:42:42.375 --> 00:42:45.125
It's a different time
and it wasn't received well.

951
00:42:45.209 --> 00:42:47.000
Especially by the Blacks.

952
00:42:47.083 --> 00:42:49.167
They thought they
were an embarrassment.

953
00:42:49.250 --> 00:42:51.250
And many of the Blacks
that I talked to

954
00:42:51.334 --> 00:42:55.292
and socialized with and went
to school with and worked with,

955
00:42:55.375 --> 00:42:57.626
they didn't wanna have
anything to do with MOVE.

956
00:42:57.709 --> 00:42:59.542
<i>So if they're not getting
through to the Blacks,</i>

957
00:42:59.626 --> 00:43:01.751
<i>imagine how they're gonna try
to get through to the whites.</i>

958
00:43:01.834 --> 00:43:03.417
<i>Forget about it.</i>

959
00:43:03.500 --> 00:43:06.751
Tuck:
<i>I don't think it's important</i>
<i>what MOVE really stands for.</i>

960
00:43:06.834 --> 00:43:09.834
<i>If the law says you must
be out of this house,</i>

961
00:43:09.918 --> 00:43:12.083
<i>then you must be
out of this house.</i>

962
00:43:12.167 --> 00:43:13.876
Man:
And if the law said
you had to move?

963
00:43:13.959 --> 00:43:15.667
How the hell you gonna spend
your money, your lifetime

964
00:43:15.751 --> 00:43:18.459
worried about owning
and the court gonna get up
and say, "You move"?

965
00:43:18.542 --> 00:43:21.584
I'm telling you that
there are eviction notices
served on people every day.

966
00:43:21.667 --> 00:43:23.125
If you own a home and you
have broken the law--

967
00:43:23.209 --> 00:43:25.000
Y'all gonna get up
and put me out any
kind of way you want?

968
00:43:25.083 --> 00:43:27.167
If you buy a home and you
have broken the law--

969
00:43:27.250 --> 00:43:30.667
-They haven't broken the law.
That's them people's religion.
-Judge says he broke the law.

970
00:43:30.751 --> 00:43:33.292
-Judge tells lies
just like me or you.
-Okay.

971
00:43:33.375 --> 00:43:35.751
Frank Goldstein:
<i>People who became part</i>
<i>of MOVE made certain</i>

972
00:43:35.834 --> 00:43:38.542
<i>personal decisions.
They decided to let</i>

973
00:43:38.626 --> 00:43:40.792
their hair grow into dreadlocks.

974
00:43:40.876 --> 00:43:42.834
They decided to look different.

975
00:43:42.918 --> 00:43:45.542
They decided to spout
different philosophies.

976
00:43:45.626 --> 00:43:49.417
They decided to eat
different foods.

977
00:43:49.500 --> 00:43:51.083
They made these decisions.

978
00:43:51.167 --> 00:43:54.209
Chuckie Africa:
We're sayin', we're talkin'
about protecting our family.

979
00:43:54.292 --> 00:43:56.500
We don't give a fuck how
many guns they got, man.

980
00:43:56.584 --> 00:43:58.500
We ain't concerned with no guns.

981
00:43:58.584 --> 00:44:00.250
We are armed with truth.

982
00:44:00.334 --> 00:44:03.042
Ain't no way in the world
a gun is gonna stop truth.

983
00:44:03.125 --> 00:44:05.667
Ain't no way in the world a gun
is gonna stop what's right.

984
00:44:05.751 --> 00:44:07.375
They can't stop life.
I don't give a fuck

985
00:44:07.459 --> 00:44:09.626
-how many people they kill.
-Tuck: When they come in though

986
00:44:09.709 --> 00:44:11.125
and they say they're
going to arrest you,

987
00:44:11.209 --> 00:44:13.250
they start taking you outside,
what do you do in that case?

988
00:44:13.334 --> 00:44:15.000
-We do what's necessary, man.
-Which means what?

989
00:44:15.083 --> 00:44:16.959
-The strategy of John Africa.
-Which means what?

990
00:44:17.042 --> 00:44:19.792
-What's right.
The strategy of John Africa.
-Which means what?

991
00:44:19.876 --> 00:44:22.542
Okay. Do you cite
the strategy of John Africa,

992
00:44:22.626 --> 00:44:25.167
-or do you actually
do something?
-The strategy of John Africa

993
00:44:25.250 --> 00:44:27.292
is the strategy that is right.

994
00:44:27.375 --> 00:44:30.209
The strategy that kept every
last one of us alive last year

995
00:44:30.292 --> 00:44:32.209
during this whole confrontation.

996
00:44:32.292 --> 00:44:35.334
- But they didn't come in
to get you last year.
-They did so.

997
00:44:35.417 --> 00:44:39.083
What do you call a blockade?
What do you call a blockade

998
00:44:39.167 --> 00:44:40.584
where they cut off
our food and water?

999
00:44:40.667 --> 00:44:42.626
What do you call 100 cops
marching down the street

1000
00:44:42.709 --> 00:44:45.959
to our very gate with a little
truck to pull down our fence?

1001
00:44:46.042 --> 00:44:48.584
If that ain't coming in to
get us, what do you call it?

1002
00:44:48.667 --> 00:44:50.834
-Do you have that
around your house?
-What do you think

1003
00:44:50.918 --> 00:44:53.209
they been doing
for seven years, man?
Playing chess with us, man?

1004
00:44:53.292 --> 00:44:56.417
-When my baby was killed, you
call that not coming to get us?
-(overlapping)

1005
00:44:56.500 --> 00:44:58.626
-Chuckie Africa: That's right.
-Tuck: My question is this.

1006
00:44:58.709 --> 00:45:00.834
If a policeman is
standing there,

1007
00:45:00.918 --> 00:45:04.417
-do you fight? Do you cite
John Africa's strategy--
-Policeman is standing here now.

1008
00:45:04.500 --> 00:45:07.250
-Janine Africa: I'm saying--
-Tuck: The policeman is not
trying to drag you outside.

1009
00:45:07.334 --> 00:45:09.918
-(people shouting)
-Chuckie Africa:
The policeman is here.

1010
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:13.709
The policeman been here
for seven motherfucking
years, alright?

1011
00:45:13.792 --> 00:45:16.334
The policeman was here.
The policeman is here

1012
00:45:16.417 --> 00:45:19.500
when my sister's
baby was killed.
The policeman was here

1013
00:45:19.584 --> 00:45:22.209
when we was trampled
and beat in front of
judges in courtrooms.

1014
00:45:22.292 --> 00:45:25.459
The policeman was here
when we was beat in
the goddamn prison, man.

1015
00:45:25.542 --> 00:45:27.292
The policeman was here

1016
00:45:27.375 --> 00:45:29.459
when four of my brothers
was beat unconscious

1017
00:45:29.542 --> 00:45:31.709
and beat the fuck back
to consciousness,

1018
00:45:31.792 --> 00:45:33.209
goddamn it,
in that fucking prison.

1019
00:45:33.292 --> 00:45:35.584
The policeman is here,
been here, and ain't gonna leave

1020
00:45:35.667 --> 00:45:38.459
unless the fucking people
get the fuck rid of them.

1021
00:45:38.542 --> 00:45:42.083
Goldstein:
<i>I guess in a minute and a half,</i>
<i>sometimes sound bites</i>

1022
00:45:42.167 --> 00:45:45.167
<i>are chosen or other things</i>

1023
00:45:45.250 --> 00:45:47.876
<i>are part of stories that</i>

1024
00:45:47.959 --> 00:45:50.876
<i>can help mold what
someone thinks.</i>

1025
00:45:50.959 --> 00:45:52.751
<i>But they made those decisions,</i>

1026
00:45:52.834 --> 00:45:55.250
<i>and I think they were seeking</i>

1027
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.334
<i>some kind of end,</i>

1028
00:45:58.417 --> 00:46:00.709
or evolution,
maybe is a better word,

1029
00:46:00.792 --> 00:46:03.334
of their way of life.

1030
00:46:03.417 --> 00:46:06.125
But they wanted
something out of that.

1031
00:46:07.751 --> 00:46:09.709
And so...

1032
00:46:09.792 --> 00:46:13.834
I think the media was
part of giving it to them.

1033
00:46:13.918 --> 00:46:16.125
Pomer:
<i>It's about 12:20 right now.</i>

1034
00:46:16.209 --> 00:46:18.834
<i>There's approximately
500 or 600 people</i>

1035
00:46:18.918 --> 00:46:20.834
<i>gathered around
MOVE headquarters,</i>

1036
00:46:20.918 --> 00:46:23.959
<i>and it seems apparent
that the police
do not wanna move in</i>

1037
00:46:24.042 --> 00:46:27.667
<i>as long as the media
and all these people
are present.</i>

1038
00:46:27.751 --> 00:46:31.459
<i>It's most likely they'll use
past tactics and come in</i>

1039
00:46:31.542 --> 00:46:35.042
<i>when there are
no camera crews</i>

1040
00:46:35.125 --> 00:46:37.250
<i>and no people present</i>

1041
00:46:37.334 --> 00:46:39.417
<i>to witness what goes on.</i>

1042
00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:42.626
(helicopter whirring)

1043
00:46:45.459 --> 00:46:48.584
(truck backing up)

1044
00:46:48.667 --> 00:46:50.375
Murray Dubin:
<i>The street was just jammed.</i>

1045
00:46:50.459 --> 00:46:53.792
<i>It was jammed with reporters
and with neighbors,</i>

1046
00:46:53.876 --> 00:46:55.834
<i>and the beginnings
of barricades,</i>

1047
00:46:55.918 --> 00:46:58.626
<i>and all sorts of police.</i>

1048
00:46:58.709 --> 00:47:01.000
<i>And we just sort of
stood around.</i>

1049
00:47:01.083 --> 00:47:05.000
<i>An "Inquirer"
photographer came.
His name was Bill Steinmetz.</i>

1050
00:47:05.083 --> 00:47:06.667
<i>And then,</i>

1051
00:47:06.751 --> 00:47:09.792
<i>both Bill and I noticed
that the police</i>

1052
00:47:09.876 --> 00:47:14.209
<i>seemed to be moving
the media away,</i>

1053
00:47:14.292 --> 00:47:17.292
<i>ostensibly for
their own safety.</i>

1054
00:47:17.375 --> 00:47:19.500
But if I was a block
to the north,

1055
00:47:19.584 --> 00:47:21.209
I was gonna
have trouble seeing

1056
00:47:21.292 --> 00:47:23.125
what was going on
at the MOVE house.

1057
00:47:23.209 --> 00:47:25.167
<i>It's now probably
3:00 in the morning,</i>

1058
00:47:25.250 --> 00:47:28.709
<i>4:00 in the morning,
and I'm not tired.</i>

1059
00:47:28.792 --> 00:47:30.959
<i>I mean, adrenaline is
racing by this time,</i>

1060
00:47:31.042 --> 00:47:33.125
<i>and I decide</i>

1061
00:47:33.209 --> 00:47:35.209
<i>to start knocking
on doors to see</i>

1062
00:47:35.292 --> 00:47:38.876
<i>if someone will let me in
so I can look out a window.</i>

1063
00:47:38.959 --> 00:47:41.751
<i>They were students in
a second floor apartment,</i>

1064
00:47:41.834 --> 00:47:43.334
<i>and they said sure.</i>

1065
00:47:43.417 --> 00:47:45.709
<i>Bill and I went into the house,</i>

1066
00:47:45.792 --> 00:47:49.042
and found a window
facing Pearl Street,

1067
00:47:49.125 --> 00:47:51.626
and sat on the floor
and looked out the window.

1068
00:47:51.709 --> 00:47:54.334
And Bill got
his camera stuff ready,

1069
00:47:54.417 --> 00:47:55.876
and we just waited

1070
00:47:55.959 --> 00:47:57.584
<i>and waited and waited.</i>

1071
00:47:59.250 --> 00:48:02.667
Palmer:
<i>I got a call from</i>
<i>Louise Africa,</i>

1072
00:48:02.751 --> 00:48:05.626
<i>John Africa's sister,
about 4:00, 5:00
in the morning, and said,</i>

1073
00:48:05.709 --> 00:48:09.292
<i>"Walt, you gotta come down
here because it's crazy.</i>

1074
00:48:09.375 --> 00:48:11.667
<i>"They're bringing in
what looks like tanks.</i>

1075
00:48:11.751 --> 00:48:14.626
<i>They got police everywhere,
helmets, etc."
And I tell her,</i>

1076
00:48:14.709 --> 00:48:18.417
<i>I said, "Louise,
there's nothing else I can do.
I mean, it's, it's--</i>

1077
00:48:18.500 --> 00:48:19.918
"It's over.
These guys have decided

1078
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:22.167
"they're gonna
go after each other.
They're gonna, you know,

1079
00:48:22.250 --> 00:48:26.626
have a shootout,
so all I can do is let them
have their shootout."

1080
00:48:26.709 --> 00:48:29.500
Devita Johnson:
<i>I had got evicted.</i>

1081
00:48:29.584 --> 00:48:31.500
<i>Had to get out, so I had
nowhere to really go, right?</i>

1082
00:48:31.584 --> 00:48:33.542
<i>So they were like,
"Well you can
come around here, Dee."</i>

1083
00:48:33.626 --> 00:48:36.083
And I remember laying down,
going to lay down with my kids

1084
00:48:36.167 --> 00:48:39.667
in one of the rooms. And, uh,

1085
00:48:39.751 --> 00:48:41.417
and I heard somebody say,

1086
00:48:41.500 --> 00:48:44.792
"They out there."
I'm like, they out there?
Who out there?

1087
00:48:45.918 --> 00:48:47.500
By the time we got
down the steps,

1088
00:48:47.584 --> 00:48:49.167
when I got down the steps,

1089
00:48:49.250 --> 00:48:51.125
I looked out the house,

1090
00:48:51.209 --> 00:48:53.209
<i>and it was blocked off.
It was blockaded off</i>

1091
00:48:53.292 --> 00:48:55.667
<i>all the way around.
You could see them
all the way around.</i>

1092
00:48:55.751 --> 00:48:58.667
And I was like, dag!

1093
00:48:58.751 --> 00:49:01.667
What do I do now?
I'm thinking about me.
What I do now?

1094
00:49:01.751 --> 00:49:05.375
Consuela Africa:
<i>There were over 600 cops,</i>

1095
00:49:05.459 --> 00:49:07.584
<i>heavily armed.</i>

1096
00:49:08.375 --> 00:49:11.459
<i>Uzis, hand grenades,</i>

1097
00:49:11.542 --> 00:49:14.584
<i>cherry bombs, bulldozers.</i>

1098
00:49:14.667 --> 00:49:16.584
Everything that you can have

1099
00:49:16.667 --> 00:49:19.709
in wartimes, except the bomb.

1100
00:49:19.792 --> 00:49:22.500
Palmer:
<i>Something told me,</i>
<i>I better get down there.</i>

1101
00:49:22.584 --> 00:49:24.542
-(helicopter whirring)
<i>-It was about 6:00.</i>

1102
00:49:24.626 --> 00:49:27.375
<i>I go down,
and my observation is that</i>

1103
00:49:27.459 --> 00:49:29.125
they were totally surrounded.

1104
00:49:29.209 --> 00:49:30.542
<i>They've let nobody in.</i>

1105
00:49:30.626 --> 00:49:32.751
-Officer 1: Is that video tape?
-Woman: No, no. I...

1106
00:49:32.834 --> 00:49:34.918
-Officer 2: You have
to leave, please.
-Woman: Okay, I understand.

1107
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.542
Palmer:
<i>They did let me in only</i>
<i>because of the past history.</i>

1108
00:49:37.626 --> 00:49:40.250
<i>Commissioner O'Neill
was there, and he wants me</i>

1109
00:49:40.334 --> 00:49:42.834
<i>to use a bullhorn to tell them
to come out and surrender.</i>

1110
00:49:42.918 --> 00:49:45.209
<i>I said,
"You must be out of your mind.
You gotta be kidding me."</i>

1111
00:49:45.292 --> 00:49:46.918
<i>(laughs) I said,
I'm not asking nobody</i>

1112
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:48.626
to surrender, right?

1113
00:49:48.709 --> 00:49:51.792
(rumbling)

1114
00:49:53.584 --> 00:49:56.500
Man:<i> The bulldozer was to</i>
<i>clear away the fence area,</i>
<i>is that correct?</i>

1115
00:49:56.584 --> 00:49:59.167
Joseph O'Neill:
<i>That is the fence</i>
<i>and the platform, yes, sir.</i>

1116
00:49:59.250 --> 00:50:02.125
<i>After they knocked
the barrier down,
we came up with the RAM.</i>

1117
00:50:02.209 --> 00:50:05.834
-(rumbling)
-(indistinct chatter)

1118
00:50:05.918 --> 00:50:09.667
And having penetrated those
barriers and the windows,

1119
00:50:09.751 --> 00:50:13.209
what action did
the plan call for
and what action was taken?

1120
00:50:13.292 --> 00:50:15.459
Our personnel,
a combination of personnel,

1121
00:50:15.542 --> 00:50:17.209
stakeout, and highway...

1122
00:50:19.626 --> 00:50:21.250
all volunteers, I might add.

1123
00:50:21.334 --> 00:50:23.626
<i>Went into 307</i>

1124
00:50:23.709 --> 00:50:26.292
<i>and went through
the building thoroughly,</i>

1125
00:50:26.375 --> 00:50:30.500
<i>starting top to bottom
or bottom to top.</i>

1126
00:50:30.584 --> 00:50:34.626
<i>We also were able to
get people into 309.</i>

1127
00:50:34.709 --> 00:50:37.292
Palmer:
<i>They had surrounded them,</i>
<i>and, um,</i>

1128
00:50:37.375 --> 00:50:39.209
<i>so then he finally
called me. He said,</i>

1129
00:50:39.292 --> 00:50:42.209
"Walt, go ahead in." Right?
So I went in the house,

1130
00:50:42.292 --> 00:50:44.542
<i>and then I started describing.
I said, "MOVE,</i>

1131
00:50:44.626 --> 00:50:46.459
<i>"you guys
are surrounded, okay?</i>

1132
00:50:46.542 --> 00:50:49.918
<i>"You got six policemen with
sub-Thompson machine guns</i>

1133
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:53.209
<i>standing directed
at the basement."
And the police say, "Walt!</i>

1134
00:50:53.292 --> 00:50:56.125
Don't, don't, don't say that!
Don't tell them where we are!"

1135
00:50:56.209 --> 00:50:58.250
I said, and you got
them upstairs, right?

1136
00:50:58.334 --> 00:51:00.125
So, they're saying,

1137
00:51:00.209 --> 00:51:02.042
"They can shoot up
through the floor!"

1138
00:51:02.125 --> 00:51:05.959
<i>All I was doing,
I wasn't trying
to give them any data</i>

1139
00:51:06.042 --> 00:51:08.834
<i>except other than
here's the situation
that you're facing.</i>

1140
00:51:08.918 --> 00:51:12.792
<i>So, let me take
the women out, right?</i>

1141
00:51:12.876 --> 00:51:15.125
<i>You guys stay, have the fight,</i>

1142
00:51:15.209 --> 00:51:17.500
and let them go.
"No, no!

1143
00:51:17.584 --> 00:51:20.751
Tell them to get the fuck
out of our building! No, no!"

1144
00:51:20.834 --> 00:51:22.584
They had only one intention,

1145
00:51:22.667 --> 00:51:25.083
and that was to kill
the MOVE organization.

1146
00:51:25.167 --> 00:51:27.709
While we were in our basement,
you could hear them

1147
00:51:27.792 --> 00:51:30.209
drilling a hole in the wall--

1148
00:51:30.292 --> 00:51:32.375
in the floor,
the first floor to the basement

1149
00:51:32.459 --> 00:51:34.000
to gain access to us.

1150
00:51:34.083 --> 00:51:37.709
I could hear them,
while they were doing all this,

1151
00:51:37.792 --> 00:51:38.834
saying,

1152
00:51:38.918 --> 00:51:42.334
"Kill anything that
moves in here. Anything."

1153
00:51:42.417 --> 00:51:44.626
That meant babies, women,

1154
00:51:44.709 --> 00:51:47.626
animals, men. Spare nothing.

1155
00:51:47.709 --> 00:51:50.250
O'Neill:
<i>I can recall being</i>
<i>with Bob Hurst</i>

1156
00:51:50.334 --> 00:51:52.751
<i>alongside him, at the side
window I believe it was,</i>

1157
00:51:52.834 --> 00:51:55.334
and we were looking
down into the place,

1158
00:51:55.417 --> 00:51:58.125
and noted that they had
weapons in the form of rifles.

1159
00:51:58.209 --> 00:52:01.584
I was at the window around
the front of the house...

1160
00:52:02.667 --> 00:52:05.626
um, with several officers,

1161
00:52:05.709 --> 00:52:09.667
<i>think some highway patrol
officers went into the house,</i>

1162
00:52:09.751 --> 00:52:12.167
<i>maybe about 15 or 20 of them,</i>

1163
00:52:12.250 --> 00:52:16.000
<i>and they came out
pretty quick because,</i>

1164
00:52:16.083 --> 00:52:19.042
<i>uh, we heard the shots,
but they were</i>

1165
00:52:19.125 --> 00:52:20.876
<i>shooting up through the floor.</i>

1166
00:52:20.959 --> 00:52:22.876
Johnson:
<i>Something was</i>
<i>shooting from upstairs</i>

1167
00:52:22.959 --> 00:52:24.209
<i>down into the basement</i>

1168
00:52:24.292 --> 00:52:26.209
<i>'cause they had a generator.
You could see something</i>

1169
00:52:26.292 --> 00:52:28.417
<i>plicking off the generator
like sparks.</i>

1170
00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:30.125
<i>Now we see the dogs,
the dogs was over there.</i>

1171
00:52:30.209 --> 00:52:32.834
And I remember me
and Delbert running low,

1172
00:52:32.918 --> 00:52:35.042
<i>not wanting to get hit.
I'm running,</i>

1173
00:52:35.125 --> 00:52:36.834
<i>I'm running right
behind Delbert.</i>

1174
00:52:36.918 --> 00:52:38.959
<i>So, we get the dogs,</i>

1175
00:52:39.042 --> 00:52:42.000
but by that time, I remember

1176
00:52:42.083 --> 00:52:44.125
they stopped shooting.

1177
00:52:44.209 --> 00:52:46.626
Then when they stopped shooting,

1178
00:52:46.709 --> 00:52:48.417
they started hosing,
putting water down.

1179
00:52:48.500 --> 00:52:51.584
(water spraying)

1180
00:52:51.667 --> 00:52:54.751
♪ ♪

1181
00:52:59.042 --> 00:53:01.167
(indistinct)

1182
00:53:08.125 --> 00:53:10.083
Hurst:
<i>And they just poured water.</i>

1183
00:53:10.167 --> 00:53:12.125
<i>It was unbelievable the way</i>

1184
00:53:12.209 --> 00:53:13.542
they poured water
into that home.

1185
00:53:13.626 --> 00:53:15.375
Thought they were gonna
drown them, for God's sake.

1186
00:53:15.459 --> 00:53:18.500
Their smart people
in the upper echelon

1187
00:53:18.584 --> 00:53:22.626
decided to put water
in the basement

1188
00:53:22.709 --> 00:53:25.375
instead of tear gas
because tear gas would

1189
00:53:25.459 --> 00:53:27.542
burn the babies' eyes.

1190
00:53:27.626 --> 00:53:29.876
Well, water will
drown them, too.

1191
00:53:29.959 --> 00:53:32.292
Consuela Africa:
<i>I'm five-foot-six.</i>

1192
00:53:32.375 --> 00:53:35.959
<i>They pumped so much
water into that basement</i>

1193
00:53:36.042 --> 00:53:39.709
<i>through the window
and through the side,
in our houses,</i>

1194
00:53:39.792 --> 00:53:42.459
that I had water up to here.

1195
00:53:42.542 --> 00:53:45.459
I had to literally
hold my son up here,

1196
00:53:45.542 --> 00:53:46.876
so he wouldn't drown.

1197
00:53:46.959 --> 00:53:48.626
Palmer:
<i>I went back one more time.</i>

1198
00:53:48.709 --> 00:53:50.792
<i>If they don't come out,
if they don't wanna come out,</i>

1199
00:53:50.876 --> 00:53:52.792
<i>this is it. I'm outta here.</i>

1200
00:53:52.876 --> 00:53:55.918
And Chuckie Africa and I
got into a cussing match,
right?

1201
00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:59.042
He's cursing at me,
I'm cursing at him, right?

1202
00:53:59.125 --> 00:54:00.584
And the police are
telling me, "stop! Stop!

1203
00:54:00.667 --> 00:54:02.792
You gonna escalate something!
You're not helping!"

1204
00:54:02.876 --> 00:54:05.209
I'm not no professional
negotiator, right?

1205
00:54:05.292 --> 00:54:09.083
I'm just an old former
street gang guy, right?

1206
00:54:09.167 --> 00:54:11.709
<i>So, when I leave out,</i>

1207
00:54:11.792 --> 00:54:13.417
<i>I'm standing
looking at the house</i>

1208
00:54:13.500 --> 00:54:15.959
<i>in the middle of the street,</i>

1209
00:54:16.042 --> 00:54:18.250
<i>and I hear what
sounds like a shot.</i>

1210
00:54:20.417 --> 00:54:23.000
(indistinct)

1211
00:54:26.918 --> 00:54:29.125
(loud gunfire)

1212
00:54:29.209 --> 00:54:31.125
(shouting)

1213
00:54:32.584 --> 00:54:35.334
(gunfire)

1214
00:54:36.334 --> 00:54:39.459
(gunfire increases, quickens)

1215
00:54:42.459 --> 00:54:45.584
(rapid gunfire continues)

1216
00:54:53.167 --> 00:54:56.459
-(gunfire stops)
-(engine rumbling)

1217
00:54:57.918 --> 00:55:00.751
♪ ♪

1218
00:55:00.834 --> 00:55:03.334
Two years ago,
the women went up for parole

1219
00:55:03.417 --> 00:55:05.125
at the same time.

1220
00:55:05.209 --> 00:55:08.709
Janet and Janine were denied
pretty much right after

1221
00:55:08.792 --> 00:55:11.834
the, um, the hearing.

1222
00:55:11.918 --> 00:55:14.042
And, my mom,
they had taken awhile.

1223
00:55:14.125 --> 00:55:15.918
A month had passed,
six weeks passed,

1224
00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:18.083
and they still hadn't
come back with an answer.

1225
00:55:18.167 --> 00:55:20.417
The parole agent in the past

1226
00:55:20.500 --> 00:55:24.083
had said that she needed
five votes, and she had four.

1227
00:55:24.167 --> 00:55:27.083
So, we were thinking
like they were kinda

1228
00:55:27.167 --> 00:55:30.334
tug-of-warring, you know,
on that fifth voter.

1229
00:55:30.417 --> 00:55:33.125
It was like, okay,
maybe this'll happen now.

1230
00:55:33.209 --> 00:55:34.500
Maybe it'll happen now.

1231
00:55:34.584 --> 00:55:36.417
And they came back neg--

1232
00:55:36.500 --> 00:55:38.500
They gave her a two-year hit.

1233
00:55:39.959 --> 00:55:41.792
A two-year hit.
So at that point,

1234
00:55:41.876 --> 00:55:43.876
it was like, okay.
They weren't deciding

1235
00:55:43.959 --> 00:55:45.667
whether or not they
were gonna parole her.

1236
00:55:45.751 --> 00:55:49.042
They were deciding how much
time they were gonna give her.

1237
00:55:49.959 --> 00:55:53.500
♪ ♪

1238
00:55:53.584 --> 00:55:54.918
<i>The parole board expects you</i>

1239
00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:56.751
<i>to answer questions
a certain way.</i>

1240
00:55:56.834 --> 00:55:58.918
<i>They don't ask you,
"Do you feel remorse?"</i>

1241
00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.792
<i>They don't say,
"Do you take responsibility
for your crime?"</i>

1242
00:56:02.876 --> 00:56:05.709
<i>They don't say that.
They ask you questions,</i>

1243
00:56:05.792 --> 00:56:08.042
and they, they get--

1244
00:56:08.125 --> 00:56:10.834
What they gather,
what they pick up from you,

1245
00:56:10.918 --> 00:56:13.000
they make their decision,
and that's the kind of response

1246
00:56:13.083 --> 00:56:14.459
they come back with.

1247
00:56:14.542 --> 00:56:16.876
I talked to my mom,
I talked to my dad,
and we're always

1248
00:56:16.959 --> 00:56:19.459
bouncing off each other
with these different ideas,

1249
00:56:19.542 --> 00:56:22.167
and, you know, and so
she said, "You know.

1250
00:56:22.250 --> 00:56:25.000
"They have
classes up here for

1251
00:56:25.083 --> 00:56:27.375
how to re-enter
into society." Right?

1252
00:56:27.459 --> 00:56:29.959
So she was like,
"I'm gonna start taking
some of them classes."

1253
00:56:30.042 --> 00:56:32.792
And I'm like, yeah.
Yeah, definitely. And, and,

1254
00:56:32.876 --> 00:56:35.542
I said, "Dad,
did you think about taking
some of them classes?"

1255
00:56:35.626 --> 00:56:38.542
He said,
"I took every class
that they offered."

1256
00:56:38.626 --> 00:56:40.751
So, my mom was like

1257
00:56:40.834 --> 00:56:43.542
started learning the language

1258
00:56:43.626 --> 00:56:46.167
that they're,
that they're speaking
and what they're looking--

1259
00:56:46.250 --> 00:56:50.167
There are certain words
that they look for, and like...

1260
00:56:50.250 --> 00:56:52.417
she wasn't--
she was never...

1261
00:56:52.500 --> 00:56:54.292
happy that the cop was killed.

1262
00:56:54.375 --> 00:56:57.542
-(siren blaring, gunfire)
-(indistinct chatter)

1263
00:56:57.626 --> 00:57:01.209
Officer:
We are under fire. Back up.
Back up by the car. Back up.

1264
00:57:01.292 --> 00:57:04.834
(gunfire)

1265
00:57:04.918 --> 00:57:06.167
Hurst:
<i>I seen his face.</i>

1266
00:57:06.250 --> 00:57:09.000
Chuckie Africa.
He popped out,

1267
00:57:09.083 --> 00:57:11.000
and boom boom boom boom,
went down.

1268
00:57:11.083 --> 00:57:12.709
When the bullets came,

1269
00:57:12.792 --> 00:57:15.292
I literally saw the sparks

1270
00:57:15.375 --> 00:57:17.042
fly past my face.

1271
00:57:17.125 --> 00:57:19.000
Literally saw sparks.

1272
00:57:19.083 --> 00:57:20.667
They had like a blanket

1273
00:57:20.751 --> 00:57:22.751
like over our heads

1274
00:57:22.834 --> 00:57:26.292
where the wood from the beams,
when they were
shooting the bullets,

1275
00:57:26.375 --> 00:57:28.125
where the splinters
wouldn't like

1276
00:57:28.209 --> 00:57:30.626
get in our eyes or in
our head or in our face.

1277
00:57:30.709 --> 00:57:34.083
-(gunfire)
-(siren blaring)

1278
00:57:34.167 --> 00:57:37.292
Dubin:
<i>I was transfixed when</i>
<i>the shots started firing.</i>

1279
00:57:37.375 --> 00:57:40.667
<i>I couldn't sort of
stop looking.</i>

1280
00:57:40.751 --> 00:57:44.209
<i>And Bill Steinmetz
told me to duck.</i>

1281
00:57:44.292 --> 00:57:46.042
So I ducked,

1282
00:57:46.125 --> 00:57:47.876
but then I couldn't see.

1283
00:57:47.959 --> 00:57:50.834
I just hit the ground
'cause I just knew

1284
00:57:50.918 --> 00:57:54.209
some cowboys out here
are gonna just go crazy,
and they did.

1285
00:57:54.292 --> 00:57:57.209
<i>The police with those six
sub-Thompson machine guns</i>

1286
00:57:57.292 --> 00:57:58.626
<i>opened 'em up.</i>

1287
00:57:58.709 --> 00:58:01.542
<i>I mean, totally,
and emptied them.</i>

1288
00:58:01.626 --> 00:58:03.751
<i>The commissioner said,
"Stop! Stop! Stop!"</i>

1289
00:58:03.834 --> 00:58:06.918
<i>-But he couldn't stop them.</i>
-(gunfire)

1290
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.083
♪ ♪

1291
00:58:11.542 --> 00:58:14.334
Hurst:
<i>They pulled me off</i>

1292
00:58:14.417 --> 00:58:17.334
<i>and they come to the tree,
back to the tree,</i>

1293
00:58:17.417 --> 00:58:19.918
where everybody was
in a prone position.

1294
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:25.083
They told me to come out.
I had fired my weapon into the--

1295
00:58:25.167 --> 00:58:27.959
<i>-into the basement.</i>
-Palmer:<i> When
the police stopped,</i>

1296
00:58:28.042 --> 00:58:29.751
<i>then after that,
MOVE started shooting.</i>

1297
00:58:29.834 --> 00:58:32.417
<i>-The shooting started
coming out of the basement.</i>
-(gunfire)

1298
00:58:32.500 --> 00:58:34.459
Tom Hesson:
<i>First shot I think was</i>
<i>Bill Stewart got hit</i>

1299
00:58:34.542 --> 00:58:36.042
<i>in the back of the neck.</i>

1300
00:58:36.125 --> 00:58:38.417
<i>And he fell on top
of the fire hose.</i>

1301
00:58:38.500 --> 00:58:40.000
<i>Firehose goes up in the air,</i>

1302
00:58:40.083 --> 00:58:42.626
<i>and after that, was just
bedlam coming out of there.</i>

1303
00:58:42.709 --> 00:58:45.876
<i>They just, you know, cops shot.
Well, I seen Jimmy Ramp</i>

1304
00:58:45.959 --> 00:58:48.834
<i>was standing behind
a pole across the street,</i>

1305
00:58:48.918 --> 00:58:51.459
<i>and he kept looking out
from behind the pole.</i>

1306
00:58:51.542 --> 00:58:53.500
<i>I kept hollering for
him to stay back.</i>

1307
00:58:53.584 --> 00:58:56.542
So I turned around again
and he was going down.

1308
00:58:56.626 --> 00:58:59.834
I left the firemen
to run across to him,

1309
00:58:59.918 --> 00:59:02.626
<i>and I got halfway across
Pearl Street and I got hit.</i>

1310
00:59:02.709 --> 00:59:04.459
I got hit in the chest.

1311
00:59:04.542 --> 00:59:07.626
Bullet come through the shield
and through the vest.

1312
00:59:07.709 --> 00:59:10.792
(gunfire)

1313
00:59:11.709 --> 00:59:14.542
(siren wailing)

1314
00:59:14.626 --> 00:59:17.250
<i>Put smoke on Pearl Street
so they couldn't see us.</i>

1315
00:59:17.334 --> 00:59:19.167
<i>They put me in
a van or in the truck</i>

1316
00:59:19.250 --> 00:59:21.709
<i>I was supposed
to be driving, the tank.</i>

1317
00:59:21.792 --> 00:59:24.209
<i>To get me outta here.
They put Jimmy on top of me,</i>

1318
00:59:24.292 --> 00:59:25.626
<i>took us to the other
end of the street,</i>

1319
00:59:25.709 --> 00:59:27.292
<i>and took us to
different hospitals.</i>

1320
00:59:27.375 --> 00:59:29.626
After that, you know,
I don't remember anything.

1321
00:59:29.709 --> 00:59:32.000
-(gunfire, siren blaring)
-(indistinct chatter)

1322
00:59:32.083 --> 00:59:34.918
♪ ♪

1323
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.334
-(gunfire, siren continues)
-(indistinct)

1324
00:59:37.417 --> 00:59:39.417
Man:
<i>What caused them to come out?</i>

1325
00:59:39.500 --> 00:59:41.876
O'Neill:
<i>Well, we turned</i>
<i>the water on again,</i>

1326
00:59:41.959 --> 00:59:43.918
then began to pour smoke in.

1327
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:45.500
<i>I think that was the sequence.</i>

1328
00:59:45.584 --> 00:59:47.125
Johnson:
<i>Once the tear gas hit,</i>

1329
00:59:47.209 --> 00:59:50.500
you couldn't talk,
you couldn't see,

1330
00:59:50.584 --> 00:59:52.375
you couldn't hear nobody,

1331
00:59:52.459 --> 00:59:54.209
and the only thing
I remember was

1332
00:59:54.292 --> 00:59:57.292
I was standing near my son,
one of my kids was here,

1333
00:59:57.375 --> 00:59:58.792
one of them was here.

1334
00:59:58.876 --> 01:00:01.125
They was 4 and 5,

1335
01:00:01.209 --> 01:00:03.292
and one was 2.
Myisha was 2.

1336
01:00:03.375 --> 01:00:04.667
I had Isha in my arms.

1337
01:00:04.751 --> 01:00:07.292
I said, "Oh, fuck it.
This is it."

1338
01:00:07.375 --> 01:00:09.792
<i>And I started walking,
and when I got by the window,</i>

1339
01:00:09.876 --> 01:00:11.626
<i>I still had Isha in my arms,</i>

1340
01:00:11.709 --> 01:00:15.083
<i>but I could see Merle.
Merle was out.</i>

1341
01:00:15.167 --> 01:00:17.500
<i>If Merle out, I'm going out.</i>

1342
01:00:17.584 --> 01:00:20.626
But once I got out
the side of the window,

1343
01:00:20.709 --> 01:00:23.042
this is what they say.
Where that damn picture?

1344
01:00:23.125 --> 01:00:24.959
When I got out
the side of the window

1345
01:00:25.042 --> 01:00:27.459
to get Merle,
this is what I was faced with.

1346
01:00:27.542 --> 01:00:29.834
(crowd yelling)

1347
01:00:29.918 --> 01:00:31.709
<i>I started walking
down Pearl Street,</i>

1348
01:00:31.792 --> 01:00:33.834
<i>but when I got to
the corner of Pearl Street,</i>

1349
01:00:33.918 --> 01:00:37.375
<i>the civil disobedience-ing
women were coming towards me.</i>

1350
01:00:37.459 --> 01:00:38.751
<i>They was gonna
take my daughter.</i>

1351
01:00:38.834 --> 01:00:40.334
<i>They was gonna take
my baby from me.</i>

1352
01:00:40.417 --> 01:00:42.209
<i>They put me in the paddy wagon.</i>

1353
01:00:42.292 --> 01:00:45.709
<i>My skin was burning,
them clothes was so hot</i>

1354
01:00:45.792 --> 01:00:48.375
<i>that they was
sticking to my skin,
and I remember trying</i>

1355
01:00:48.459 --> 01:00:50.584
<i>to keep them off of my skin
because it was burning.</i>

1356
01:00:50.667 --> 01:00:52.334
Man:
<i>I assume that you're</i>
<i>distinguishing between</i>

1357
01:00:52.417 --> 01:00:54.167
<i>the word "smoke"
and the word "tear gas,"</i>

1358
01:00:54.250 --> 01:00:56.667
<i>-is that correct?</i>
-O'Neill:<i> That's correct.
I conferred with Dr. Polk</i>

1359
01:00:56.751 --> 01:00:59.334
about the effect of gas
on the lungs of a child

1360
01:00:59.417 --> 01:01:00.959
because we knew that they had

1361
01:01:01.042 --> 01:01:02.959
some very small
children in there,

1362
01:01:03.042 --> 01:01:04.542
and their recommendation was

1363
01:01:04.626 --> 01:01:06.667
that we not use it.
So we didn't use it.

1364
01:01:06.751 --> 01:01:08.834
Fair:
They've just thrown gas,

1365
01:01:08.918 --> 01:01:10.918
and they're dragging MOVE
members out right now.

1366
01:01:11.042 --> 01:01:12.667
Man:
...basement window in the front.

1367
01:01:12.751 --> 01:01:16.459
One of the MOVE members
coming out and to prison.

1368
01:01:16.542 --> 01:01:19.417
Hurst:
<i>The next half hour</i>
<i>or so like that</i>

1369
01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:23.000
<i>was a matter of getting
everything out of there.</i>

1370
01:01:23.083 --> 01:01:26.042
♪ ♪

1371
01:01:26.125 --> 01:01:29.209
(inaudible)

1372
01:01:33.584 --> 01:01:36.709
(muffled chatter)

1373
01:01:40.417 --> 01:01:42.417
<i>Then they all
started coming out,</i>

1374
01:01:42.500 --> 01:01:44.792
and they were putting
their children out first

1375
01:01:44.876 --> 01:01:46.876
so that they,
of course, wouldn't be shot.

1376
01:01:46.959 --> 01:01:50.042
(inaudible)

1377
01:02:00.584 --> 01:02:03.292
<i>Then Delbert Africa
started coming out</i>

1378
01:02:03.375 --> 01:02:05.667
<i>of the Pearl Street window,</i>

1379
01:02:06.876 --> 01:02:09.959
<i>and, of course,
he was helped out</i>

1380
01:02:10.042 --> 01:02:14.334
<i>by the couple of
stakeout officers and, um...</i>

1381
01:02:15.459 --> 01:02:17.375
Interviewer:

1382
01:02:17.459 --> 01:02:19.667
Well, he was. um,

1383
01:02:19.751 --> 01:02:21.792
he was being subdued.

1384
01:02:21.876 --> 01:02:24.584
Lemme just put it
that way. He was...

1385
01:02:26.209 --> 01:02:29.500
-he was subdued.
-(indistinct shouting)

1386
01:02:29.584 --> 01:02:31.709
Bob Steinmetz:
He's hitting him,
he's hitting him.

1387
01:02:31.792 --> 01:02:34.834
Hitting him on the head.
Kicked him in the head!

1388
01:02:34.918 --> 01:02:36.834
(crowd shouting)

1389
01:02:36.918 --> 01:02:40.083
-I have no idea. I couldn't see.
-Man: That's enough!

1390
01:02:40.167 --> 01:02:43.542
Hurst:
<i>He was being helped out</i>
<i>by them three officers.</i>

1391
01:02:43.626 --> 01:02:46.334
And then promptly
went to the hospital.

1392
01:02:47.542 --> 01:02:51.000
But, um, should've
went to the morgue.

1393
01:02:52.042 --> 01:02:54.500
It's one of the few
things I think

1394
01:02:54.584 --> 01:02:57.918
I've seen as a reporter,
for a long time,

1395
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.626
that I'm never gonna forget.

1396
01:03:00.709 --> 01:03:03.250
It was vicious.

1397
01:03:03.334 --> 01:03:05.626
It was sadism. It was...

1398
01:03:05.709 --> 01:03:07.626
attempted murder.

1399
01:03:07.709 --> 01:03:09.417
Dubin:
<i>At that point,</i>

1400
01:03:09.500 --> 01:03:12.626
<i>we become aware that the police</i>

1401
01:03:12.709 --> 01:03:14.584
<i>see us in the window.</i>

1402
01:03:16.209 --> 01:03:18.000
<i>So we're a little
nervous about that.</i>

1403
01:03:18.083 --> 01:03:19.918
We don't want anybody
shooting at us,

1404
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:22.375
so we move from the window.

1405
01:03:22.459 --> 01:03:24.834
Bill's afraid they're
gonna confiscate his film.

1406
01:03:24.918 --> 01:03:27.584
This is a time when
they're still using film.

1407
01:03:27.667 --> 01:03:30.709
And he takes the film
out of his camera
and puts it in his boot.

1408
01:03:30.792 --> 01:03:34.042
♪ ♪

1409
01:03:34.125 --> 01:03:36.334
Hurst:
<i>So they got everybody</i>
<i>out of there.</i>

1410
01:03:37.667 --> 01:03:39.125
<i>And then,</i>

1411
01:03:39.209 --> 01:03:41.626
then they put a unit together,

1412
01:03:41.709 --> 01:03:43.375
and I was one of them.

1413
01:03:43.459 --> 01:03:46.709
Man:
You mentioned that Mr. Hurst,
who I believe currently

1414
01:03:46.792 --> 01:03:49.000
heads the Fraternal Order
of the Police, played a role

1415
01:03:49.083 --> 01:03:51.667
-in the 1978 plan.
-O'Neill: He happened to be

1416
01:03:51.751 --> 01:03:53.834
right at the same--
where I happened to be,

1417
01:03:53.918 --> 01:03:55.918
and I'm pleased that
I was at the same location

1418
01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:57.500
-that he was.
-Man: Do you recall

1419
01:03:57.584 --> 01:03:59.626
whether Mr. Hurst
played any other role

1420
01:03:59.709 --> 01:04:01.417
at that time,
other than observing

1421
01:04:01.500 --> 01:04:03.125
what was going on
in the basement?

1422
01:04:03.209 --> 01:04:06.083
I don't really know
what you're, you know,

1423
01:04:06.167 --> 01:04:07.584
if you could re...

1424
01:04:07.667 --> 01:04:10.334
Man:
It is your recollection then
that he was there with you for

1425
01:04:10.417 --> 01:04:13.334
-at least a short
period of time?
-O'Neill: Oh, probably a matter

1426
01:04:13.417 --> 01:04:15.042
of a few seconds or minutes,
something like that.

1427
01:04:15.125 --> 01:04:17.417
Man:
And that's all that
you observed him do

1428
01:04:17.500 --> 01:04:19.792
and that was to peer
into the basement.

1429
01:04:19.876 --> 01:04:22.334
You didn't observe him do
anything else at that point?

1430
01:04:22.417 --> 01:04:25.000
Well, he was telling them
to put their weapons down

1431
01:04:25.083 --> 01:04:26.959
-and things of that nature.
-Man: Do you know

1432
01:04:27.042 --> 01:04:29.918
whether or not he recovered
a weapon from inside of

1433
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:32.083
the MOVE house on
Powelton Avenue?

1434
01:04:32.167 --> 01:04:35.500
I don't recall specifically
whether he did or did not

1435
01:04:35.584 --> 01:04:37.417
because a number of
weapons were recovered

1436
01:04:37.500 --> 01:04:39.083
and they were
handed out. In fact,

1437
01:04:39.167 --> 01:04:41.792
one was handed to me,
and I remember that

1438
01:04:41.876 --> 01:04:43.792
the MOVE people trying
to make a big issue

1439
01:04:43.876 --> 01:04:46.626
over the fact that
I had a weapon

1440
01:04:46.709 --> 01:04:50.334
that I had handed
back into them,
or some such stuff as that

1441
01:04:50.417 --> 01:04:52.918
that the weapon
was a police weapon.

1442
01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:56.083
♪ ♪

1443
01:04:56.167 --> 01:04:58.584
Hurst:
<i>When we went into the house,</i>

1444
01:04:58.667 --> 01:05:01.667
<i>and then down
into the basement,</i>

1445
01:05:01.751 --> 01:05:04.375
<i>we waded through there.</i>

1446
01:05:04.459 --> 01:05:07.918
<i>The water was
up to my belly button,
about three feet.</i>

1447
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.250
And then there was sorta like

1448
01:05:10.334 --> 01:05:14.167
an area to the right, and to
the left was storage, and we--

1449
01:05:14.250 --> 01:05:16.542
Excuse me, and
we took some weapons

1450
01:05:16.626 --> 01:05:18.417
and stuff like that and ammo,

1451
01:05:18.500 --> 01:05:20.250
and different things like that,

1452
01:05:20.334 --> 01:05:22.459
<i>and make a chain line</i>

1453
01:05:22.542 --> 01:05:25.292
<i>to go from there
out to the window.</i>

1454
01:05:25.375 --> 01:05:29.292
<i>And it was put out
the window like that from us.</i>

1455
01:05:29.375 --> 01:05:31.334
<i>The tear gas was down there,</i>

1456
01:05:31.417 --> 01:05:34.500
and it was--
I was overcome by it,

1457
01:05:34.584 --> 01:05:37.167
as were several of
the other officers,

1458
01:05:37.250 --> 01:05:41.000
and so we came out,
and we went to the hospital.

1459
01:05:41.083 --> 01:05:43.918
I went to
the Misericordia Hospital.

1460
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.417
Interviewer:

1461
01:05:45.500 --> 01:05:47.459
Pardon?

1462
01:05:47.542 --> 01:05:49.792
The police used tear gas.

1463
01:05:49.876 --> 01:05:52.667
So when I was in the hospital,

1464
01:05:52.751 --> 01:05:55.125
I drew a plan

1465
01:05:55.209 --> 01:05:58.417
of everything I remembered
in that basement...

1466
01:06:00.042 --> 01:06:03.709
and what was taken out,
to the best of my ability.

1467
01:06:05.125 --> 01:06:07.876
Well, it was good that
was done because...

1468
01:06:09.792 --> 01:06:14.000
Rizzo ordered the building
demolished right then.

1469
01:06:15.250 --> 01:06:16.876
Right then.

1470
01:06:16.959 --> 01:06:19.209
<i>Taken down completely
with bulldozers.</i>

1471
01:06:20.292 --> 01:06:23.209
And, and so
there was no evidence.

1472
01:06:23.292 --> 01:06:25.459
And so that little
sheet of paper

1473
01:06:25.542 --> 01:06:28.417
was the thing that was
used for the trial.

1474
01:06:28.500 --> 01:06:29.834
Who knew?

1475
01:06:31.083 --> 01:06:34.250
(keys rattling, unlocks door)

1476
01:06:38.083 --> 01:06:41.167
Mike Africa Jr.:
<i>John Africa said,</i>
<i>"Do what's necessary."</i>

1477
01:06:41.250 --> 01:06:44.626
<i>I got a tape of
him saying that.</i>

1478
01:06:44.709 --> 01:06:47.000
<i>So I would listen to it,
and just listen to it,</i>

1479
01:06:47.083 --> 01:06:49.667
<i>and then I would--
I spent a lot of time</i>

1480
01:06:49.751 --> 01:06:53.375
<i>with another supporter,
and we found a lot of stuff.</i>

1481
01:06:53.459 --> 01:06:56.918
<i>Witness testimonies,
police statements,</i>

1482
01:06:57.000 --> 01:06:58.250
<i>all kind of stuff.</i>

1483
01:06:58.334 --> 01:07:01.083
<i>I actually have
FBI files in here</i>

1484
01:07:01.167 --> 01:07:03.709
<i>from the investigative
reports they did on MOVE</i>

1485
01:07:03.792 --> 01:07:05.667
<i>from back in 1973.</i>

1486
01:07:05.751 --> 01:07:09.000
<i>And this is not even all of it.
This is just some of it.</i>

1487
01:07:11.083 --> 01:07:13.167
-Interviewer:
-Needle in a haystack.

1488
01:07:13.250 --> 01:07:16.417
I'm looking for the evidence.
I'm looking for the information

1489
01:07:16.500 --> 01:07:18.167
that would show

1490
01:07:18.250 --> 01:07:20.709
<i>something about
their innocence,</i>

1491
01:07:20.792 --> 01:07:22.375
<i>and it doesn't matter</i>

1492
01:07:22.459 --> 01:07:24.125
<i>if you have to read the entire</i>

1493
01:07:24.209 --> 01:07:25.876
<i>Philadelphia Sunday paper</i>

1494
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:28.459
<i>to find that one line.</i>

1495
01:07:28.542 --> 01:07:31.626
<i>Look for the needle in
the haystack. Find it.</i>

1496
01:07:31.709 --> 01:07:35.125
And if you can't
find it in this paper,
find it in another paper.

1497
01:07:35.209 --> 01:07:37.876
I wound up doing that info--
that stuff

1498
01:07:37.959 --> 01:07:39.834
for over 25 years.

1499
01:07:39.918 --> 01:07:41.250
Reporter:
<i>The compound belonging to</i>

1500
01:07:41.334 --> 01:07:42.834
<i>the controversial
radical group MOVE</i>

1501
01:07:42.918 --> 01:07:46.459
is no more tonight. It's been
torn down by city bulldozers

1502
01:07:46.542 --> 01:07:49.417
after a dramatic early morning
shootout in West Philadelphia.

1503
01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:51.375
Eleven MOVE members
are behind bars tonight

1504
01:07:51.459 --> 01:07:53.876
after the battle.
One police officer is dead,

1505
01:07:53.959 --> 01:07:56.584
four others hospitalized,
along with two firemen.

1506
01:07:56.667 --> 01:07:59.751
And as I perceived it while
watching this drama unfold,

1507
01:07:59.834 --> 01:08:01.584
MOVE gave its dogs
more of a chance

1508
01:08:01.667 --> 01:08:03.083
than it gave their own children.

1509
01:08:03.167 --> 01:08:05.584
But I really think something
sh-- could've been worked out

1510
01:08:05.667 --> 01:08:07.751
a little bit better
than what this is.

1511
01:08:07.834 --> 01:08:10.709
People getting killed, babies,

1512
01:08:11.918 --> 01:08:13.667
police officers.

1513
01:08:13.751 --> 01:08:16.542
Everybody suffering,
neighborhood is tensed up.

1514
01:08:16.626 --> 01:08:19.167
There were some residents who
felt the city acted with plenty

1515
01:08:19.250 --> 01:08:22.042
of restraint and blamed
the whole confrontation on MOVE.

1516
01:08:22.125 --> 01:08:24.667
Most of those people
refused to appear on camera

1517
01:08:24.751 --> 01:08:26.500
for fear of retaliation.

1518
01:08:26.584 --> 01:08:28.500
That concludes our coverage
of what happened in

1519
01:08:28.584 --> 01:08:31.626
Powelton Village on this day,
August 8th, 1978.

1520
01:08:31.709 --> 01:08:34.918
It was a day on which
a policeman was killed,
a house was torn down,

1521
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:36.834
and a whole movement exploded.

1522
01:08:36.918 --> 01:08:40.042
For Bill Baldini,
I'm Michael Tuck. Good night.

1523
01:08:40.125 --> 01:08:43.209
♪ ♪

1524
01:08:49.209 --> 01:08:51.042
Pomer:
I remember a few days ago,

1525
01:08:51.125 --> 01:08:54.626
I think you were
trying to save-- get a court
order to save the house.

1526
01:08:54.709 --> 01:08:58.209
Palmer:
Yeah, what we did,
Oscar Gaskins' office filed

1527
01:08:58.292 --> 01:09:00.083
an injunction enjoining
the city from tearing

1528
01:09:00.167 --> 01:09:02.042
the property down.

1529
01:09:02.125 --> 01:09:04.125
And as you can see here,
the city is now in the process

1530
01:09:04.209 --> 01:09:05.375
of tearing the property down.

1531
01:09:05.459 --> 01:09:07.375
Question we've
gotta ask is why.

1532
01:09:07.459 --> 01:09:09.042
You know, why is that
house being torn down

1533
01:09:09.125 --> 01:09:11.167
and why is there such
a great effort put to it?

1534
01:09:11.250 --> 01:09:12.918
Tonight, we have
a complete special report

1535
01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:14.834
on the battle at MOVE,
the wild shootout

1536
01:09:14.918 --> 01:09:16.417
that took
a policeman's life.

1537
01:09:16.500 --> 01:09:19.083
The Instant Eye
was there through
the terror-filled fight,

1538
01:09:19.167 --> 01:09:21.000
and we've got reaction
from all sides.

1539
01:09:21.083 --> 01:09:23.334
All the while, they play on
the news media that the people

1540
01:09:23.417 --> 01:09:24.751
in Powelton Village agree

1541
01:09:24.834 --> 01:09:26.500
with what was going down.
That was a lie.

1542
01:09:26.584 --> 01:09:28.876
<i>They'll go down and get three
white people off the corner</i>

1543
01:09:28.959 --> 01:09:30.459
<i>from Baring Street</i>

1544
01:09:30.542 --> 01:09:31.834
<i>and say we don't like MOVE.</i>

1545
01:09:31.918 --> 01:09:33.083
Why ain't they ask
the Black people?

1546
01:09:33.167 --> 01:09:34.584
Rizzo:
<i>The press has to</i>

1547
01:09:34.667 --> 01:09:37.167
take part of
the responsibility

1548
01:09:37.250 --> 01:09:39.584
for their
irresponsible acts.

1549
01:09:39.667 --> 01:09:41.459
They believe
what you read,

1550
01:09:41.542 --> 01:09:43.709
what you write,
and what you say,

1551
01:09:43.792 --> 01:09:45.626
and it's got to stop.

1552
01:09:45.709 --> 01:09:48.125
And one day, and I hope
it's in my career,

1553
01:09:48.209 --> 01:09:50.918
that you're going to have
to be held responsible

1554
01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:52.876
and accountable
for what you do.

1555
01:09:52.959 --> 01:09:55.209
One reporter claims to have
looked up and seen the muzzle

1556
01:09:55.292 --> 01:09:57.250
of a weapon sticking
out the window.

1557
01:09:57.334 --> 01:09:59.209
Walt Hunter from WCAU,
by the way,

1558
01:09:59.292 --> 01:10:02.334
swears that a shot was fired
going in this direction.

1559
01:10:02.417 --> 01:10:05.709
Reporter 1:
<i>For Helen Ramp and her</i>
<i>14-year-old son, James Junior,</i>

1560
01:10:05.792 --> 01:10:08.375
<i>the terror and violence
at MOVE headquarters came</i>

1561
01:10:08.459 --> 01:10:11.459
<i>crashing down this morning at
Presbyterian Medical Center.</i>

1562
01:10:11.542 --> 01:10:14.626
<i>Inside, they were told
James Ramp, husband, father,</i>

1563
01:10:14.709 --> 01:10:16.459
<i>and Philadelphia
police sharpshooter,</i>

1564
01:10:16.542 --> 01:10:18.709
<i>had been shot to death
in the crossfire at</i>

1565
01:10:18.792 --> 01:10:20.542
<i>the West Philadelphia
compound.</i>

1566
01:10:20.626 --> 01:10:22.709
<i>Ramp, 52,
was shot in the chest</i>

1567
01:10:22.792 --> 01:10:24.876
<i>and died soon after
being admitted.</i>

1568
01:10:24.959 --> 01:10:26.292
Shortly after
the shooting ended,

1569
01:10:26.375 --> 01:10:27.959
there was a near
violent confrontation

1570
01:10:28.042 --> 01:10:29.959
between police and an angry
crowd that gathered.

1571
01:10:30.042 --> 01:10:32.876
<i>-Nobody was hurt.</i>
-Reporter 2:<i> To prevent
the spread of trouble,</i>

1572
01:10:32.959 --> 01:10:35.083
<i>police sealed off one
corner of the intersection</i>

1573
01:10:35.167 --> 01:10:36.834
<i>where the rock
throwing occurred.</i>

1574
01:10:36.918 --> 01:10:39.751
We talked with one
young man, a teenager,

1575
01:10:39.834 --> 01:10:42.792
who accused the police
of beating him.

1576
01:10:42.876 --> 01:10:44.918
And, as you remember,
I asked him,

1577
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:46.918
"Now, what do you mean
when you say beating?"

1578
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:50.083
And he indicated
that the police
pushed and shoved him

1579
01:10:50.167 --> 01:10:52.918
and hit him with
a knife stick--
a nightstick.

1580
01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:55.334
What people
don't understand,
I think, Vince,

1581
01:10:55.417 --> 01:10:56.959
is that in a situation
like that,

1582
01:10:57.042 --> 01:10:59.292
police just don't have
time to ask twice.

1583
01:10:59.375 --> 01:11:02.334
So perhaps if there was
some direct involvement

1584
01:11:02.417 --> 01:11:04.000
by high city officials,

1585
01:11:04.083 --> 01:11:06.500
-we could cool out any
possible problem--
-Yeah. Communication is needed

1586
01:11:06.584 --> 01:11:09.834
because when we talked with them
and also with the policeman,

1587
01:11:09.918 --> 01:11:13.751
we did learn that
rumors were flying.

1588
01:11:13.834 --> 01:11:15.959
Reporter:
Commissioner, what's the
situation in Powelton now?

1589
01:11:16.042 --> 01:11:18.292
Police are in control in
Powelton at the present time,

1590
01:11:18.375 --> 01:11:20.292
and if there are any
additional confrontations,

1591
01:11:20.375 --> 01:11:22.792
I can assure you that the police
will take care of them.

1592
01:11:22.876 --> 01:11:25.209
We will not brook any nonsense.

1593
01:11:25.292 --> 01:11:28.000
Anybody that takes his own out
in Powelton or anywhere else

1594
01:11:28.083 --> 01:11:29.792
in this city

1595
01:11:29.876 --> 01:11:31.167
is going to be crushed.

1596
01:11:31.250 --> 01:11:34.000
Pomer:
<i>They all charged,</i>
<i>chased everybody</i>

1597
01:11:34.083 --> 01:11:36.292
<i>all, all over the place
with their clubs.</i>

1598
01:11:36.375 --> 01:11:39.876
<i>Bunch of people ran into their
own houses and were followed.</i>

1599
01:11:39.959 --> 01:11:43.042
I was upstairs sleeping,
then I heard all this noise
on the steps.

1600
01:11:43.125 --> 01:11:44.626
Then the cop was
swinging the nightstick

1601
01:11:44.709 --> 01:11:46.209
and hit me in my eye
and my head.

1602
01:11:46.292 --> 01:11:48.375
-Reporter: Where were
you at that time?
-On top of the steps.

1603
01:11:48.459 --> 01:11:50.417
Reporter:
You were on top of the steps.
The cop came into the house

1604
01:11:50.500 --> 01:11:52.542
-to do this?
-Woman 1: Yeah!
They came into the house!

1605
01:11:52.626 --> 01:11:54.250
And here comes all these
people and all these cops.

1606
01:11:54.334 --> 01:11:56.209
They're chasing them
again with the nightsticks,
hitting them all

1607
01:11:56.292 --> 01:11:58.751
on the shoulders and stuff.
There's about three
up there already hurt.

1608
01:11:58.834 --> 01:12:02.417
Woman 2:
<i>These people want these</i>
<i>white racist pigs to go home,</i>

1609
01:12:02.500 --> 01:12:05.834
<i>back to their own northeast
families where they belong at.</i>

1610
01:12:05.918 --> 01:12:07.459
<i>Go up there and beat heads</i>

1611
01:12:07.542 --> 01:12:09.834
<i>and trample on people's
children with their horses.</i>

1612
01:12:09.918 --> 01:12:12.292
<i>They don't want this
shit down here. We tired.</i>

1613
01:12:12.375 --> 01:12:15.042
-(crowd yelling)
-No-good shit-eating vermin,
motherfucker!

1614
01:12:15.125 --> 01:12:17.459
Kill me,
you son of a bitch!

1615
01:12:17.542 --> 01:12:20.334
No-good white
motherfucking beasts!

1616
01:12:20.417 --> 01:12:23.667
Reporter 1:
<i>A group of MOVE supporters</i>
<i>spent much of the day outside</i>

1617
01:12:23.751 --> 01:12:25.918
<i>a heavily guarded
Jaffray Medical Center,</i>

1618
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:28.709
<i>waiting for word on Chuckie
and the other MOVE patient,</i>

1619
01:12:28.792 --> 01:12:32.584
<i>Delbert Africa,
thought to be the most
seriously injured</i>

1620
01:12:32.667 --> 01:12:34.626
<i>in Tuesday's
battle with police.</i>

1621
01:12:34.709 --> 01:12:36.834
<i>Delbert has a broken cheekbone</i>

1622
01:12:36.918 --> 01:12:38.834
<i>plus a bloodshot
and swollen eye.</i>

1623
01:12:38.918 --> 01:12:42.751
Reporter 2:
<i>MOVE members charged with the</i>
<i>murder of Police Officer Ramp.</i>

1624
01:12:42.834 --> 01:12:44.542
Reporter 3:
<i>It took hours of</i>
<i>microscopic examination</i>

1625
01:12:44.626 --> 01:12:47.083
<i>and police have now
decided that the weapon</i>

1626
01:12:47.167 --> 01:12:49.209
<i>that killed Ramp
belonged to MOVE.</i>

1627
01:12:49.292 --> 01:12:52.209
This firearm that I'm holding
in my hand is the weapon

1628
01:12:52.292 --> 01:12:54.626
that fired the projectile
that killed Officer Ramp.

1629
01:12:54.709 --> 01:12:56.876
Reporter 3:
<i>The semiautomatic rifle</i>
<i>was one of only a number</i>

1630
01:12:56.959 --> 01:12:59.292
<i>of weapons confiscated
after the shootout.</i>

1631
01:12:59.375 --> 01:13:02.417
<i>Police also found
1,600 rounds of ammunition,</i>

1632
01:13:02.500 --> 01:13:04.792
<i>both fired and unfired,
gas masks,</i>

1633
01:13:04.876 --> 01:13:06.459
<i>holsters, and ammunition boxes.</i>

1634
01:13:06.542 --> 01:13:08.792
Washington:
<i>I saw them bring the guns</i>
<i>out of that basement.</i>

1635
01:13:08.876 --> 01:13:11.500
So if you have
250,000 gallons of water

1636
01:13:11.584 --> 01:13:14.459
in the basement,
no electricity, it's dark,

1637
01:13:14.542 --> 01:13:17.000
and there's residue
of smoke and tear gas,

1638
01:13:17.083 --> 01:13:18.667
<i>how thorough was
the investigation</i>

1639
01:13:18.751 --> 01:13:20.751
<i>in an hour and a half?
And these were</i>

1640
01:13:20.834 --> 01:13:22.792
<i>the same weapons that
were sparkling clean</i>

1641
01:13:22.876 --> 01:13:26.083
<i>when Rizzo gave his
press conference
in that afternoon.</i>

1642
01:13:26.167 --> 01:13:28.500
Rendell:
<i>The police force and</i>
<i>the city administration</i>

1643
01:13:28.584 --> 01:13:31.542
has acted,
in my judgment, with...

1644
01:13:31.626 --> 01:13:33.751
extremely commendable restraint.

1645
01:13:33.834 --> 01:13:37.792
The police probably would've
been legally within their rights

1646
01:13:37.876 --> 01:13:40.250
to have, subsequent to
the shooting of Officer Ramp,

1647
01:13:40.334 --> 01:13:44.250
stormed the house and killed all
of the people in that basement.

1648
01:13:44.334 --> 01:13:47.125
Do you know of any incidents
where some officers may have

1649
01:13:47.209 --> 01:13:50.334
become a little overzealous
in arresting some of
the MOVE members?

1650
01:13:50.417 --> 01:13:53.000
I know of one instance
where one of the MOVE
members came out

1651
01:13:53.083 --> 01:13:56.167
the window with a cartridge
case in one hand,

1652
01:13:56.250 --> 01:13:58.584
a clip, and with
a knife in the other.

1653
01:14:00.334 --> 01:14:02.375
<i>...with a cartridge
case in one hand...</i>

1654
01:14:02.459 --> 01:14:05.083
<i>and with a knife
in the other...</i>

1655
01:14:05.167 --> 01:14:08.876
<i>Where he was hit on the top of
the head with a steel helmet</i>

1656
01:14:08.959 --> 01:14:10.083
and was taken into custody,

1657
01:14:10.167 --> 01:14:11.918
if that's what you're
referring to, Bill.

1658
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:13.709
<i>If that's overzealous,
so be it.</i>

1659
01:14:13.792 --> 01:14:16.292
<i>But I've had it up to here
with individual reporters</i>

1660
01:14:16.375 --> 01:14:19.667
who are constantly
our adversaries,

1661
01:14:19.751 --> 01:14:21.959
constantly.
And I think when you go out

1662
01:14:22.042 --> 01:14:24.334
and you talk to these people
and stir them up

1663
01:14:24.417 --> 01:14:26.584
and try to find out who did
what where and all that,

1664
01:14:26.667 --> 01:14:28.918
<i>that you're being
totally unfair</i>

1665
01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:32.167
<i>to the police of this
community and to the people</i>

1666
01:14:32.250 --> 01:14:33.792
of this community.

1667
01:14:33.876 --> 01:14:35.918
And you accept at face value

1668
01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:38.042
absolute lies that
are told to you.

1669
01:14:38.125 --> 01:14:39.751
You don't even
get off your asses

1670
01:14:39.834 --> 01:14:42.459
and walk down to look where
these people claim they were.

1671
01:14:42.542 --> 01:14:45.209
Reporter:
<i>Despite official statements</i>
<i>claiming the police showed</i>

1672
01:14:45.292 --> 01:14:48.667
<i>great restraint in Powelton
Village yesterday, these people</i>

1673
01:14:48.751 --> 01:14:51.834
<i>chanted a series of anti-Rizzo
and anti-police slogans.</i>

1674
01:14:51.918 --> 01:14:53.918
Peruto:
<i>The real thing that made</i>
<i>it bad was the video.</i>

1675
01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:57.959
The Fraternal Order of Police,
which my father represented,

1676
01:14:58.042 --> 01:15:00.375
was very, very upset
that they would even

1677
01:15:00.459 --> 01:15:02.834
arrest these officers
involved in this case.

1678
01:15:02.918 --> 01:15:06.250
What they should've done
is shot the goddamn bum,

1679
01:15:06.334 --> 01:15:08.667
<i>and then there would've
been no trouble today.</i>

1680
01:15:08.751 --> 01:15:10.751
Reporter:
<i>Mayor Rizzo,</i>
<i>Police Commissioner O'Neill,</i>

1681
01:15:10.834 --> 01:15:13.751
<i>Fire Commissioner Joe Rizzo,
and other high-ranking officers</i>

1682
01:15:13.834 --> 01:15:15.751
<i>file past Ramp's open casket.</i>

1683
01:15:15.834 --> 01:15:17.292
<i>Then the patrolmen and women,</i>

1684
01:15:17.375 --> 01:15:19.334
<i>many of whom Ramp knew,
many of whom</i>

1685
01:15:19.417 --> 01:15:22.042
<i>were just brothers and sisters
in the Fraternity of Police.</i>

1686
01:15:22.125 --> 01:15:24.918
<i>And many emerged
from the church
with tears in their eyes.</i>

1687
01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:28.334
Rizzo:
<i>I hope that their jury of</i>
<i>their peers finds them guilty</i>

1688
01:15:28.417 --> 01:15:30.542
and then they're put
on the electric chair

1689
01:15:30.626 --> 01:15:32.834
where they belong,
the people that had any part

1690
01:15:32.918 --> 01:15:34.167
in the killing of Jim Ramp.

1691
01:15:34.250 --> 01:15:36.500
Peruto:
<i>If it was testimony</i>
<i>from eyewitnesses</i>

1692
01:15:36.584 --> 01:15:39.959
<i>from five feet away,
you could reject it
and say, I don't care.</i>

1693
01:15:40.042 --> 01:15:42.167
<i>If the cops say it
happened this way,</i>

1694
01:15:42.250 --> 01:15:43.542
<i>that's the way it happened.</i>

1695
01:15:43.626 --> 01:15:46.209
<i>And people still believe
that today in juries.</i>

1696
01:15:46.292 --> 01:15:49.292
<i>It's not that they beat
his face and beat his body.</i>

1697
01:15:49.375 --> 01:15:52.584
<i>It's the fact that they
got caught. Inescapably,</i>

1698
01:15:52.667 --> 01:15:54.459
because it's on video.

1699
01:15:54.542 --> 01:15:57.626
There's no question of how it
happened and what happened.

1700
01:15:57.709 --> 01:15:59.626
Now what are we
gonna do about it?

1701
01:15:59.709 --> 01:16:01.751
For the first time in years,
the Black community

1702
01:16:01.834 --> 01:16:04.375
of Philadelphia staged
a major demonstration

1703
01:16:04.459 --> 01:16:06.209
against the Rizzo
administration.

1704
01:16:06.292 --> 01:16:08.125
<i>The focal point
of this protest,</i>

1705
01:16:08.209 --> 01:16:11.083
<i>the pictures of Delbert Africa
being beaten by police</i>

1706
01:16:11.167 --> 01:16:13.834
<i>after surrendering from
the MOVE house last Tuesday.</i>

1707
01:16:13.918 --> 01:16:16.792
<i>Many of these Black people
feel they themselves</i>

1708
01:16:16.876 --> 01:16:19.918
<i>could get similar
treatment from the police.</i>

1709
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:23.209
George Parry:
<i>I became aware of the beating</i>
<i>watching the 11:00 news,</i>

1710
01:16:23.292 --> 01:16:25.250
<i>and I spoke with
the district attorney</i>

1711
01:16:25.334 --> 01:16:27.250
and told him that, to me,

1712
01:16:27.334 --> 01:16:30.209
the evidence was
clear that we--

1713
01:16:30.292 --> 01:16:33.209
we had to prosecute those
three police officers.

1714
01:16:33.292 --> 01:16:36.334
With us right now is
District Attorney Ed Rendell.

1715
01:16:36.417 --> 01:16:39.667
You saw the film,
you heard Commissioner
O'Neill's comments.

1716
01:16:39.751 --> 01:16:40.876
How do you see it?

1717
01:16:40.959 --> 01:16:42.876
Rendell:
<i>Obviously, Bill,</i>
<i>on the face of it,</i>

1718
01:16:42.959 --> 01:16:46.167
<i>it looks like the police
were overzealous
in that one clip.</i>

1719
01:16:46.250 --> 01:16:48.125
When we look at
an incident like this,

1720
01:16:48.209 --> 01:16:50.792
we don't look at it
as an isolated film clip.

1721
01:16:50.876 --> 01:16:53.459
We look at it in context
with what occurred

1722
01:16:53.542 --> 01:16:56.000
minutes before it,
and the emotion of that

1723
01:16:56.083 --> 01:16:57.626
and what had occurred
and the violence

1724
01:16:57.709 --> 01:17:00.334
that was perpetrated on
policemen and on firemen,

1725
01:17:00.417 --> 01:17:02.083
and we have to view it
in that context.

1726
01:17:02.167 --> 01:17:04.834
Interviewer:

1727
01:17:04.918 --> 01:17:07.209
Well, he, you know,
he ultimately agreed.

1728
01:17:07.292 --> 01:17:10.334
He was quite concerned.
Obviously, he wanted to get

1729
01:17:10.417 --> 01:17:13.417
<i>all the facts,
and I agreed with that. Fine.</i>

1730
01:17:13.500 --> 01:17:17.542
<i>And after a very
thorough investigation,</i>

1731
01:17:17.626 --> 01:17:19.709
<i>we then arranged to</i>

1732
01:17:19.792 --> 01:17:23.042
have the police
officers arrested.

1733
01:17:23.125 --> 01:17:27.209
And the day that they
were to surrender,

1734
01:17:27.292 --> 01:17:29.042
I came into the office.

1735
01:17:29.125 --> 01:17:31.209
I said to a couple
of my detectives

1736
01:17:31.292 --> 01:17:32.959
who were assigned
to the unit, I said,

1737
01:17:33.042 --> 01:17:36.083
"Why don't you get on
down to the police
administration building

1738
01:17:36.167 --> 01:17:39.292
and process the officers
that are supposed
to surrender today?"

1739
01:17:39.375 --> 01:17:42.042
And everybody looked at me like

1740
01:17:42.125 --> 01:17:44.250
I was-- I had two heads.

1741
01:17:44.334 --> 01:17:46.918
And I said, "What in
the world's going on?"

1742
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:48.709
And they said,
"Don't you know?"

1743
01:17:48.792 --> 01:17:52.334
Crowd:
I wear blue! Take me, too!
I wear blue! Take me, too!

1744
01:17:52.417 --> 01:17:54.500
Peruto:
<i>"I wear blue, take me, too."</i>

1745
01:17:54.584 --> 01:17:56.834
<i>That was the chant.
It had started at 500 strong.</i>

1746
01:17:56.918 --> 01:17:59.918
It ended up
2,500, 3,500 easy.

1747
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:01.125
It was a lot of people.

1748
01:18:01.209 --> 01:18:03.751
<i>The case got assigned
to a bad judge,</i>

1749
01:18:03.834 --> 01:18:06.209
<i>so we thought.
Stanley Kubacki,</i>

1750
01:18:06.292 --> 01:18:08.042
who was a very tough judge,

1751
01:18:08.125 --> 01:18:10.209
and he would put people in
jail for a million years.

1752
01:18:10.292 --> 01:18:12.751
Reporter 1:
<i>Two of the defendants</i>
<i>testified, teary-eyed,</i>

1753
01:18:12.834 --> 01:18:14.209
<i>they feared he
was laying on top</i>

1754
01:18:14.292 --> 01:18:16.334
<i>of Officer Geist's
missing pistol,</i>

1755
01:18:16.417 --> 01:18:19.125
<i>that the kicks were an effort
to turn Delbert over.</i>

1756
01:18:19.209 --> 01:18:22.125
Reporter 2:
<i>O'Neill told the court that,</i>
<i>"Delbert Africa wasn't a man.</i>

1757
01:18:22.209 --> 01:18:24.042
<i>"He was a savage,
and with a savage,</i>

1758
01:18:24.125 --> 01:18:25.918
<i>you don't know what
he'll do," says O'Neill.</i>

1759
01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:27.709
<i>O'Neill said,
"Given the circumstances,</i>

1760
01:18:27.792 --> 01:18:30.167
<i>the force used by police
to subdue the prisoner,"</i>

1761
01:18:30.250 --> 01:18:32.626
<i>meaning Delbert Africa,
"was reasonable."</i>

1762
01:18:32.709 --> 01:18:35.250
I thought we stood
a very good chance

1763
01:18:35.334 --> 01:18:37.459
of obtaining a conviction,

1764
01:18:37.542 --> 01:18:40.459
but before the defense
could give its summation,

1765
01:18:40.542 --> 01:18:42.751
and certainly before
I could give my summation,

1766
01:18:42.834 --> 01:18:45.125
the judge came out,

1767
01:18:45.209 --> 01:18:48.083
and called a halt to the trial.

1768
01:18:48.167 --> 01:18:50.042
Boy, that judge turned out to be

1769
01:18:50.125 --> 01:18:51.751
the best thing that
ever happened to them

1770
01:18:51.834 --> 01:18:54.792
because by the time
the trial was over,

1771
01:18:54.876 --> 01:18:57.250
he, all of a sudden,

1772
01:18:57.334 --> 01:19:00.375
issued an order
finding them not guilty,

1773
01:19:00.459 --> 01:19:03.209
and wouldn't even let
the jury decide the case

1774
01:19:03.292 --> 01:19:04.792
because he thought
it was so outrageous

1775
01:19:04.876 --> 01:19:06.459
that they were even
charged. He actually,

1776
01:19:06.542 --> 01:19:09.584
I remember his words.
"Let me be the lightning rod

1777
01:19:09.667 --> 01:19:12.584
"to absorb all of the criticism
the city wants to hail.

1778
01:19:12.667 --> 01:19:14.334
"Let them hail it at me.

1779
01:19:14.417 --> 01:19:16.667
I am not letting this
case go to a jury."

1780
01:19:16.751 --> 01:19:19.584
Reporter:
<i>Despite indications that</i>
<i>the all-white jury chosen</i>

1781
01:19:19.667 --> 01:19:22.834
<i>from Dauphin County would've
found the trio innocent,</i>

1782
01:19:22.918 --> 01:19:24.751
<i>Prosecutor George Parry
had planned</i>

1783
01:19:24.834 --> 01:19:27.042
<i>to raise a significant
credibility issue</i>

1784
01:19:27.125 --> 01:19:29.959
<i>in the closing arguments
that Kubacki denied him.</i>

1785
01:19:30.042 --> 01:19:33.667
<i>Geist was apparently already
kicking Delbert Africa</i>

1786
01:19:33.751 --> 01:19:36.125
<i>as his service revolver
flies from his holster</i>

1787
01:19:36.209 --> 01:19:37.959
<i>because of the kicking motion.</i>

1788
01:19:38.042 --> 01:19:40.709
<i>The kicking that Geist
testified that he did</i>

1789
01:19:40.792 --> 01:19:42.375
<i>to find the gun that was,</i>

1790
01:19:42.459 --> 01:19:45.876
<i>according to this photograph,
not yet missing.</i>

1791
01:19:45.959 --> 01:19:47.250
I am not sorry at
anything I did.

1792
01:19:47.334 --> 01:19:49.751
The only thing I am sorry for
is that James Ramp is dead,

1793
01:19:49.834 --> 01:19:51.667
and a lot of other police
and firemen are now

1794
01:19:51.751 --> 01:19:53.459
out of the job,
permanently injured.

1795
01:19:53.542 --> 01:19:56.792
Would you handle the arrest
of Delbert the same way?

1796
01:19:58.334 --> 01:20:00.584
Yes, in those
circumstances, I would.

1797
01:20:00.667 --> 01:20:03.167
I would do the same if I was
in that same situation again.

1798
01:20:03.250 --> 01:20:06.459
Interviewer:
Is that his place to
make that sort of--

1799
01:20:06.542 --> 01:20:08.417
No. No.

1800
01:20:08.500 --> 01:20:11.667
The judge should only take
a case away from the jury

1801
01:20:11.751 --> 01:20:13.709
when it's, as a matter of law,

1802
01:20:13.792 --> 01:20:18.292
there's no way the jury could've
found the defendant, uh,

1803
01:20:18.375 --> 01:20:21.542
guilty. And here,
the evidence was clear

1804
01:20:21.626 --> 01:20:23.167
just on the tape alone,

1805
01:20:23.250 --> 01:20:25.584
they could've found
the defendant guilty.

1806
01:20:25.667 --> 01:20:28.000
The judge had no
business doing it.

1807
01:20:28.083 --> 01:20:30.250
Interviewer:
How often have you seen
that sort of thing?

1808
01:20:30.334 --> 01:20:31.834
I've never seen
a judge take it away

1809
01:20:31.918 --> 01:20:33.250
from a jury except for this.

1810
01:20:33.334 --> 01:20:34.792
Reporter:
<i>The Academy of Music,</i>

1811
01:20:34.876 --> 01:20:36.959
the Civic Center,
the Spectrum
can all step aside

1812
01:20:37.042 --> 01:20:39.667
because the top showplace
in town these days

1813
01:20:39.751 --> 01:20:42.209
is a commonplace
courtroom in City Hall.

1814
01:20:42.292 --> 01:20:43.709
Do you think it's gonna
be a pretty good show?

1815
01:20:43.792 --> 01:20:45.250
Do you have any ideas
about what it's gonna be like?

1816
01:20:45.334 --> 01:20:47.042
I'm sure it'll be spectacular.

1817
01:20:47.125 --> 01:20:49.834
Reporter:
<i>The defendants have said they</i>
<i>wanna be tried all together,</i>

1818
01:20:49.918 --> 01:20:52.626
<i>without a jury.
Said Delbert Orr Africa,</i>

1819
01:20:52.709 --> 01:20:55.542
<i>"A jury would only be
composed of racist whites</i>

1820
01:20:55.626 --> 01:20:58.918
<i>from the northeast
and store-bought Negroes
from downtown."</i>

1821
01:20:59.000 --> 01:21:00.584
Dubin:
<i>It was a bit of a circus.</i>

1822
01:21:00.667 --> 01:21:03.500
<i>They would shout,
gesticulate, scream.</i>

1823
01:21:03.584 --> 01:21:05.292
<i>Then they would
either be restrained,</i>

1824
01:21:05.375 --> 01:21:07.375
<i>or, in some cases,</i>

1825
01:21:07.459 --> 01:21:08.959
removed from the court room.

1826
01:21:09.042 --> 01:21:11.250
Reporter:
<i>The MOVE members will have</i>
<i>to promise they'll behave</i>

1827
01:21:11.334 --> 01:21:13.792
<i>before they come back
and act as their
own lawyers in court.</i>

1828
01:21:13.876 --> 01:21:16.250
Counsel:
<i>And the court appointed me</i>
<i>as backup counsel</i>

1829
01:21:16.334 --> 01:21:18.876
<i>in the event that
the defendants, or my client,</i>

1830
01:21:18.959 --> 01:21:21.834
<i>-should be removed.</i>
-Pomer:<i> But now,
you're taking over.</i>

1831
01:21:21.918 --> 01:21:23.834
Yes.
I did not want to do that,
but the Supreme Court

1832
01:21:23.918 --> 01:21:26.959
-ordered me to do it,
so I'm doing it.
-You didn't want to do that?

1833
01:21:27.042 --> 01:21:30.667
-You could've refused
to do it, right? Why not?
-No.

1834
01:21:30.751 --> 01:21:34.083
Because I have tried to
withdraw from the case.

1835
01:21:34.167 --> 01:21:36.542
-Well you would be in
contempt of court, right?
-That's right.

1836
01:21:36.626 --> 01:21:39.959
-And you're not willing to
go in contempt of court.
-Absolutely not.

1837
01:21:40.042 --> 01:21:43.042
The backup counsels
cannot represent MOVE

1838
01:21:43.125 --> 01:21:46.083
better than themselves
because they are not going

1839
01:21:46.167 --> 01:21:48.292
to risk a contempt order

1840
01:21:48.375 --> 01:21:50.042
telling that judge
when he's wrong.

1841
01:21:50.125 --> 01:21:51.584
They will tell you privately,

1842
01:21:51.667 --> 01:21:54.918
"Yes, Judge Malmed was wrong.
This was illegal."

1843
01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:56.918
But they will not stand up
in that courtroom

1844
01:21:57.000 --> 01:21:58.459
and let the judge know that.

1845
01:21:58.542 --> 01:22:00.334
They essentially

1846
01:22:00.417 --> 01:22:02.626
pled guilty without
pleading guilty

1847
01:22:02.709 --> 01:22:05.292
because they didn't wanna

1848
01:22:05.375 --> 01:22:07.834
try to take advantage
of the system

1849
01:22:07.918 --> 01:22:10.042
and try to make a case
that they were not guilty.

1850
01:22:10.125 --> 01:22:13.292
I think that the city was pretty
sick of the story in general.

1851
01:22:13.375 --> 01:22:14.584
I know the media was sick of it.

1852
01:22:14.667 --> 01:22:17.667
<i>We covered it on an incident
by incident basis.</i>

1853
01:22:17.751 --> 01:22:19.918
<i>There was no real effort,
in my mind,</i>

1854
01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:21.959
<i>to really dig deeper
into what was going on there.</i>

1855
01:22:22.042 --> 01:22:23.667
Pat Warren:
<i>Monaghan told the court</i>

1856
01:22:23.751 --> 01:22:26.125
<i>he heard Delbert Africa
insist that Phil Africa</i>

1857
01:22:26.209 --> 01:22:29.167
<i>take the carbine
and quote,
"Shoot the pig."</i>

1858
01:22:29.250 --> 01:22:31.792
Testimony was wrapped up today
with police still photographer

1859
01:22:31.876 --> 01:22:33.918
John Eugesick
on the stand.

1860
01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:37.083
♪ ♪

1861
01:22:39.834 --> 01:22:42.417
At that point,
I was moving on to other things,

1862
01:22:42.500 --> 01:22:44.751
and I think the city of
Philadelphia was, too.

1863
01:22:44.834 --> 01:22:46.584
Nobody cared about it.

1864
01:22:46.667 --> 01:22:48.626
Not the courts.

1865
01:22:48.709 --> 01:22:50.375
Not the news media.

1866
01:22:50.459 --> 01:22:52.209
The coroner's testimony

1867
01:22:52.292 --> 01:22:54.876
differed from the coroner's...

1868
01:22:55.500 --> 01:22:57.209
official report,

1869
01:22:57.292 --> 01:23:00.459
and the DA took out a pencil

1870
01:23:00.542 --> 01:23:02.959
and just changed it
right in court,

1871
01:23:03.042 --> 01:23:04.417
and the judge allowed it!

1872
01:23:04.500 --> 01:23:06.542
-Good evening,
I'm Vince Leonard.
-And I'm Beverly Williams.

1873
01:23:06.626 --> 01:23:09.334
Here's what's happening.
Guilty of murder
in the third degree.

1874
01:23:09.417 --> 01:23:11.542
That's the verdict for
all nine MOVE members.

1875
01:23:11.626 --> 01:23:14.334
The judge said
guilty nine times,

1876
01:23:14.417 --> 01:23:16.834
and Channel 3's
Kim Sedgwick was in court

1877
01:23:16.918 --> 01:23:19.209
when the MOVE murder
verdicts came down. Kim?

1878
01:23:19.292 --> 01:23:21.250
Dick, it was the longest
criminal trial

1879
01:23:21.334 --> 01:23:22.542
in Philadelphia court history

1880
01:23:22.626 --> 01:23:24.709
and one of the longest
in the country.

1881
01:23:24.792 --> 01:23:27.083
Reporter:
<i>"Guilty of murder</i>
<i>in the third degree."</i>

1882
01:23:27.167 --> 01:23:29.918
<i>That's what Judge Malmed
said to each of
the nine MOVE members.</i>

1883
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:33.459
<i>"Liar! Liar!" Delbert Africa
shot back at the judge</i>

1884
01:23:33.542 --> 01:23:35.292
<i>when he was brought
before the bench.</i>

1885
01:23:35.375 --> 01:23:38.500
<i>"How can you find someone
guilty in this illegal court?"</i>

1886
01:23:38.584 --> 01:23:40.334
<i>It was the same
with all the others.</i>

1887
01:23:40.417 --> 01:23:43.667
<i>All shouting obscenities,
all claiming innocence.</i>

1888
01:23:43.751 --> 01:23:46.042
<i>Emotions of the MOVE
supporters were the same.</i>

1889
01:23:46.125 --> 01:23:48.876
You killed my family!
You killed our babies!

1890
01:23:48.959 --> 01:23:52.083
-You railroaded us!
You broke down our house!
-Woman: That's right!

1891
01:23:52.167 --> 01:23:53.918
You broke in our house,
goddammit!

1892
01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:56.709
Reporter:
<i>MOVE defense attorneys</i>
<i>were bitter, too.</i>

1893
01:23:56.792 --> 01:24:00.042
As I said, I was hurt,
disillusioned,

1894
01:24:00.125 --> 01:24:01.334
but not surprised.

1895
01:24:01.417 --> 01:24:04.292
In the news tonight, nine
members of the radical group

1896
01:24:04.375 --> 01:24:06.334
MOVE are facing stiff jail terms

1897
01:24:06.417 --> 01:24:08.792
for their part in a shootout
with Philadelphia police.

1898
01:24:08.876 --> 01:24:11.959
Reporter:
<i>Judge Edwin Malmed sentenced</i>
<i>each of the nine MOVE members</i>

1899
01:24:12.042 --> 01:24:15.125
<i>to 30 to 100 years in jail,
nearly the maximum sentence</i>

1900
01:24:15.209 --> 01:24:17.459
<i>that had been requested
by the district attorney.</i>

1901
01:24:17.542 --> 01:24:19.792
<i>Each MOVE member cursed
and threatened the judge</i>

1902
01:24:19.876 --> 01:24:21.375
<i>as he was brought
into court today.</i>

1903
01:24:21.459 --> 01:24:24.125
<i>The judge then ordered each
of the MOVE members removed</i>

1904
01:24:24.209 --> 01:24:25.876
<i>and their sentences
were relayed</i>

1905
01:24:25.959 --> 01:24:27.209
<i>to them by their attorney.</i>

1906
01:24:27.292 --> 01:24:28.918
<i>Judge Malmed, explaining
the verdict, called</i>

1907
01:24:29.000 --> 01:24:31.709
<i>the MOVE members' conduct
"criminal and obscene,"</i>

1908
01:24:31.792 --> 01:24:34.000
<i>and he quietly declared
that MOVE members had</i>

1909
01:24:34.083 --> 01:24:36.876
<i>"abused this community
for far too long."</i>

1910
01:24:36.959 --> 01:24:38.250
They have at all
times maintained

1911
01:24:38.334 --> 01:24:41.083
they were a family
and acted together.

1912
01:24:41.167 --> 01:24:43.751
I, therefore, took
them at their own word.

1913
01:24:43.834 --> 01:24:46.751
If they're a family
and have all acted together,

1914
01:24:46.834 --> 01:24:49.417
then they acted in concert,
they acted jointly,

1915
01:24:49.500 --> 01:24:51.500
and they should
all share equally

1916
01:24:51.584 --> 01:24:53.500
in the punishment imposed.

1917
01:24:54.417 --> 01:24:56.667
♪ ♪

1918
01:24:56.751 --> 01:25:00.250
Interviewer:
<i>Do you think they</i>
<i>deserve to get parole?</i>

1919
01:25:00.334 --> 01:25:03.167
Rendell:
<i>I'm not against</i>
<i>people who've done</i>

1920
01:25:03.250 --> 01:25:06.334
substantial time and are
clearly in an age bracket

1921
01:25:06.417 --> 01:25:09.834
they're not gonna go out and
commit serious crimes again,

1922
01:25:09.918 --> 01:25:12.292
getting parole.
In fact, when I was governor,

1923
01:25:12.375 --> 01:25:14.918
I pardoned a number of lifers.

1924
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:17.500
Individually, it would
depend on how they did,

1925
01:25:17.584 --> 01:25:20.250
what the degree of
evidence against them was.

1926
01:25:20.334 --> 01:25:23.250
I think some of them might
be very appropriate,

1927
01:25:23.334 --> 01:25:25.792
uh, uh, subjects for parole.

1928
01:25:25.876 --> 01:25:30.209
For me, what it comes down to
is the basic question.

1929
01:25:30.292 --> 01:25:34.250
Can you believe what the police
said happened that day?

1930
01:25:34.334 --> 01:25:37.000
<i>To me, the opportunity
for a crossfire</i>

1931
01:25:37.083 --> 01:25:38.667
<i>created a significant</i>

1932
01:25:38.751 --> 01:25:40.959
<i>possibility that
James Ramp was killed</i>

1933
01:25:41.042 --> 01:25:43.459
<i>by a bullet that didn't
come from inside the house.</i>

1934
01:25:43.542 --> 01:25:47.459
Wilson Goode:
<i>It has never been</i>
<i>clear to me that</i>

1935
01:25:47.542 --> 01:25:50.209
the police got
it right, that the...

1936
01:25:50.292 --> 01:25:52.000
district attorney got it right,

1937
01:25:52.083 --> 01:25:53.667
that the judges got it right,

1938
01:25:53.751 --> 01:25:56.292
that the sentences were proper.

1939
01:25:56.375 --> 01:25:58.375
And as I've looked at it

1940
01:25:58.459 --> 01:26:01.042
in hindsight over the years,

1941
01:26:01.125 --> 01:26:04.334
I am convinced that they
did not get it right.

1942
01:26:04.417 --> 01:26:07.459
That the Officer Ramp

1943
01:26:07.542 --> 01:26:10.292
died from friendly fire.

1944
01:26:10.375 --> 01:26:13.250
♪ ♪

1945
01:26:13.334 --> 01:26:16.751
I'm willing to do whatever.
If we, if that means--

1946
01:26:16.834 --> 01:26:18.876
set it up so that we can
get pardon papers up to them,

1947
01:26:18.959 --> 01:26:21.834
and they do that.
If that means that they--
if we set it up

1948
01:26:21.918 --> 01:26:24.918
where we try to get the DA's
office to help us out.

1949
01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:27.792
If that means that
we hire a lawyer, 10 lawyers,

1950
01:26:27.876 --> 01:26:29.375
an investigator, whatever.

1951
01:26:29.459 --> 01:26:33.209
If that means that we just beat
the drum and try to get people

1952
01:26:33.292 --> 01:26:36.042
to, to wake up their neighbors

1953
01:26:36.125 --> 01:26:38.709
or wake up their, uh,
their, their congressmen

1954
01:26:38.792 --> 01:26:40.876
or senators or whatever.

1955
01:26:40.959 --> 01:26:43.000
I'm a guy who's saying

1956
01:26:43.083 --> 01:26:45.125
do whatever it takes,

1957
01:26:45.209 --> 01:26:47.209
do all that it takes

1958
01:26:47.292 --> 01:26:50.751
because those people that are
in prison are dying in there.

1959
01:26:51.918 --> 01:26:54.250
Phil didn't make it to 40.

1960
01:26:54.334 --> 01:26:57.834
<i>The system-- Whatever
was happening with him,</i>

1961
01:26:57.918 --> 01:27:01.125
or the people who was
feeding him that poison

1962
01:27:01.209 --> 01:27:03.500
up at them prisons
that they call water.

1963
01:27:03.584 --> 01:27:06.125
They're feeding him that
swill that they call food,

1964
01:27:06.209 --> 01:27:09.500
or that-- yeah, I mean,
like, that, that stuff...

1965
01:27:10.334 --> 01:27:12.417
you know... (sighs)

1966
01:27:12.500 --> 01:27:14.792
What can you do?
You just gotta keep on pushing.

1967
01:27:14.876 --> 01:27:17.292
Keep on exposing the system
for the wrongs in it.

1968
01:27:17.375 --> 01:27:19.083
If it takes 10 years,
if it takes 20 years.

1969
01:27:19.167 --> 01:27:22.709
It could take--
it could take every
single one of their lives.

1970
01:27:25.792 --> 01:27:28.876
♪ ♪

1971
01:28:10.209 --> 01:28:12.375
Crowd:
<i>Larry! Larry! Larry!</i>

1972
01:28:12.459 --> 01:28:14.918
(chanting continues)

1973
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:17.209
-(applause)
-Larry Krasner:
This is not

1974
01:28:17.292 --> 01:28:20.459
another story about
the history of kings and queens.

1975
01:28:20.542 --> 01:28:23.250
This is a story
about a movement.

1976
01:28:23.334 --> 01:28:25.751
-Man: That's right!
-(cheering)

1977
01:28:25.834 --> 01:28:29.542
And this is a movement
that is tired

1978
01:28:29.626 --> 01:28:32.250
of seeing a system that
has systematically picked

1979
01:28:32.334 --> 01:28:34.042
on poor people,

1980
01:28:34.125 --> 01:28:36.542
primarily Black
and brown people.

1981
01:28:36.626 --> 01:28:38.834
(cheering)

1982
01:28:38.918 --> 01:28:42.334
This is a mandate for a movement

1983
01:28:42.417 --> 01:28:44.417
that is loudly telling

1984
01:28:44.500 --> 01:28:47.626
government what it wants,
and what it wants

1985
01:28:47.709 --> 01:28:49.584
is criminal justice reform

1986
01:28:49.667 --> 01:28:52.334
in ways that require
transformational change

1987
01:28:52.417 --> 01:28:55.500
within the Philadelphia
District Attorney's office.

1988
01:28:55.584 --> 01:28:58.083
(cheering)

1989
01:28:58.167 --> 01:29:01.375
So, in terms of
the parole process,

1990
01:29:01.459 --> 01:29:05.292
Krasner's office,
the DA's office, can make--

1991
01:29:05.375 --> 01:29:09.083
can either oppose parole
or not oppose,

1992
01:29:09.167 --> 01:29:12.918
and so that recommendation is
significant in that aspect.

1993
01:29:13.000 --> 01:29:16.375
And then also,
he's campaigned on this

1994
01:29:16.459 --> 01:29:20.751
open files policy,
and specifically around the...

1995
01:29:20.834 --> 01:29:22.667
Conviction Integrity Unit.
They call it

1996
01:29:22.751 --> 01:29:25.834
the Conviction Review Unit
in Philadelphia,

1997
01:29:25.918 --> 01:29:28.500
wherein they would--

1998
01:29:28.584 --> 01:29:30.918
the person who's been convicted

1999
01:29:31.000 --> 01:29:32.876
is entitled to full access

2000
01:29:32.959 --> 01:29:37.167
to whatever's in the DA files,
and we know they...

2001
01:29:37.250 --> 01:29:39.459
there must be some
information that's

2002
01:29:39.542 --> 01:29:42.500
not been released to
the public in the MOVE cases,

2003
01:29:42.584 --> 01:29:45.500
and that the--

2004
01:29:45.584 --> 01:29:49.459
The police destroyed
the house and they...

2005
01:29:49.542 --> 01:29:52.167
covered up information,
covered up evidence,

2006
01:29:52.250 --> 01:29:55.000
and it's important that
we see what's in there,

2007
01:29:55.083 --> 01:29:58.626
so that's one way that
Krasner's office can

2008
01:29:58.709 --> 01:30:02.751
ex-- help expose
the truth on this
so that some sort of

2009
01:30:02.834 --> 01:30:04.959
just resolution
can come out of it.

2010
01:30:05.918 --> 01:30:09.000
♪ ♪

2011
01:30:21.334 --> 01:30:23.626
And it's written to Leo Dunn,
Chairman of the Pennsylvania

2012
01:30:23.709 --> 01:30:25.375
Board of Probation and Parole.

2013
01:30:25.459 --> 01:30:27.459
It says, "On behalf of District
Attorney Lawrence Krasner,

2014
01:30:27.542 --> 01:30:30.083
<i>"I write to inform you and the
Board that I recommend that</i>

2015
01:30:30.167 --> 01:30:32.292
<i>"Ms. Debbie Sims Africa
be paroled.</i>

2016
01:30:32.375 --> 01:30:34.834
<i>"Ms. Sims Africa has been
in custody for 39 years</i>

2017
01:30:34.918 --> 01:30:37.459
<i>"and has not had a single
misconduct since 1995.</i>

2018
01:30:37.542 --> 01:30:39.834
<i>"Her prison record shows that
she has made use of her time</i>

2019
01:30:39.918 --> 01:30:42.334
<i>"in custody,
completing 2,113 hours</i>

2020
01:30:42.417 --> 01:30:45.417
<i>"of vocational training,
60 hours of academic training</i>

2021
01:30:45.500 --> 01:30:47.751
"and attaining her
cosmetology license.

2022
01:30:47.834 --> 01:30:49.292
"She is now 61 years old.

2023
01:30:49.375 --> 01:30:51.542
<i>"In short, I am confident that
she will not pose a threat</i>

2024
01:30:51.626 --> 01:30:54.792
<i>"to the Philadelphia community
to which she wishes to return.</i>

2025
01:30:54.876 --> 01:30:57.500
<i>"While Ms. Sims Africa's
crimes were very serious,</i>

2026
01:30:57.584 --> 01:31:01.167
<i>her continued incarceration
does not make our city safer."</i>

2027
01:31:01.250 --> 01:31:04.167
And it's pretty much
the same thing for Janet

2028
01:31:04.250 --> 01:31:06.292
and for Janine.

2029
01:31:06.375 --> 01:31:07.876
♪ ♪

2030
01:31:07.959 --> 01:31:10.083
Interviewer:
<i>Do you think they'll</i>
<i>be paroled in May?</i>

2031
01:31:10.167 --> 01:31:13.334
No. I think the parole
board sees itself as

2032
01:31:13.417 --> 01:31:15.250
cops and part of
the brotherhood.

2033
01:31:15.334 --> 01:31:17.876
And they're carrying out,

2034
01:31:17.959 --> 01:31:21.000
um, their mission that
anybody convicted

2035
01:31:21.083 --> 01:31:22.876
of homicide of
a police officer

2036
01:31:22.959 --> 01:31:25.334
should be
eternally punished.

2037
01:31:25.417 --> 01:31:28.000
And that's what it's
been for nine years,

2038
01:31:28.083 --> 01:31:31.918
and I don't think a more
persuasive parole packet is

2039
01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:37.125
going to change that
deeply entrenched attitude.

2040
01:31:37.209 --> 01:31:39.709
Which is why it's important
to build up the record

2041
01:31:39.792 --> 01:31:42.667
so as to establish that
the denial of parole

2042
01:31:42.751 --> 01:31:45.459
is violating their
constitutional rights.

2043
01:31:45.542 --> 01:31:48.709
♪ ♪

2044
01:31:59.584 --> 01:32:01.584
Interviewer:
<i>Mike, hello?</i>

2045
01:32:01.667 --> 01:32:04.751
Mike (on phone):

2046
01:32:59.959 --> 01:33:01.584
Interviewer: Yeah.

2047
01:33:14.334 --> 01:33:16.125
♪ ♪

2048
01:33:16.209 --> 01:33:18.667
Mom. How you doing?

2049
01:33:18.751 --> 01:33:22.542
-I'm alright, how you?
-(indistinct phone chatter)

2050
01:33:22.626 --> 01:33:25.292
Woman: Speaker phone.

2051
01:33:26.209 --> 01:33:28.042
Woman: Is it on speaker phone?

2052
01:33:31.792 --> 01:33:33.918
-You got your what?
-Woman: What?

2053
01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:36.083
(indistinct)

2054
01:33:36.167 --> 01:33:38.042
-Her what?
-Hold up, hold up.

2055
01:33:38.125 --> 01:33:39.709
You got your green sheet?

2056
01:33:39.792 --> 01:33:42.542
-Woman: What's that?
-That's your, what?

2057
01:33:42.626 --> 01:33:43.876
Yeah?

2058
01:33:47.334 --> 01:33:51.167
(laughter, screaming)

2059
01:33:51.250 --> 01:33:53.626
Woman:
Oh, Debbie coming home!

2060
01:33:53.709 --> 01:33:56.375
(laughter)

2061
01:33:56.459 --> 01:33:58.876
Woman:
Long live John Africa!

2062
01:33:58.959 --> 01:34:01.709
(laughter, shouting continue)

2063
01:34:01.792 --> 01:34:04.209
Woman:
Josh is happy!
Look at Josh!

2064
01:34:04.292 --> 01:34:06.375
(cheering)

2065
01:34:06.459 --> 01:34:07.959
My mom said,
"Tell your dad...

2066
01:34:08.042 --> 01:34:10.876
-He can't help it.
-"to control hisself

2067
01:34:10.959 --> 01:34:12.417
"'cause...

2068
01:34:12.500 --> 01:34:15.292
being extremely happy can
cause heart attacks, too."

2069
01:34:15.375 --> 01:34:17.209
-Man: Want a strawberry?
-Woman: Is this for your mom?

2070
01:34:17.292 --> 01:34:18.792
I don't know!

2071
01:34:18.876 --> 01:34:20.500
♪ ♪

2072
01:34:20.584 --> 01:34:23.459
We're picking her up tomorrow,
7:00 in the morning.

2073
01:34:23.542 --> 01:34:25.667
Best news I've ever
heard in my life.

2074
01:34:25.751 --> 01:34:28.500
This is the best news that
I've ever heard in my life.

2075
01:34:29.542 --> 01:34:31.459
By far.

2076
01:34:31.542 --> 01:34:33.792
-No, she ain't wearing that.
-Woman: Then what should we get?

2077
01:34:33.876 --> 01:34:36.918
That one is perfect.
Look at it.
Robes are like shoes!

2078
01:34:37.000 --> 01:34:38.709
They're universal.
They go with anything.

2079
01:34:38.792 --> 01:34:41.125
<i>We don't have any time.
Get the damn thing,
let's get the...</i>

2080
01:34:41.209 --> 01:34:44.417
-...heck outta here.
-Alright.
Calm yourself down.

2081
01:34:44.500 --> 01:34:46.626
-Interviewer:<i> How do you feel?</i>
-(Mike laughing)

2082
01:34:46.709 --> 01:34:48.250
Mike:
<i>Beside myself.</i>

2083
01:34:48.334 --> 01:34:49.417
<i>I don't even know what to feel.</i>

2084
01:34:49.500 --> 01:34:51.417
<i>There's so many
things happening.</i>

2085
01:34:51.500 --> 01:34:54.292
<i>I can't even really
fully process it yet.</i>

2086
01:34:56.125 --> 01:34:59.292
<i>And I always say
I don't believe it</i>

2087
01:34:59.375 --> 01:35:01.542
<i>until she's in my car.</i>

2088
01:35:03.167 --> 01:35:05.083
<i>Forty years.</i>

2089
01:35:05.167 --> 01:35:08.250
♪ ♪

2090
01:35:25.250 --> 01:35:28.626
<i>♪ Tell the world
I'm coming... ♪</i>

2091
01:35:28.709 --> 01:35:30.209
Mm.

2092
01:35:30.292 --> 01:35:32.959
("Coming Home" by Diddy
playing on the radio)

2093
01:35:33.042 --> 01:35:35.626
♪ I never felt so strong ♪

2094
01:35:35.709 --> 01:35:38.584
♪ That feeling like there's
nothing I can't try ♪

2095
01:35:38.667 --> 01:35:39.918
(laughing)

2096
01:35:40.000 --> 01:35:43.125
(singing with the radio):
Put your hands high!

2097
01:35:43.209 --> 01:35:44.250
Ah, man!

2098
01:35:44.334 --> 01:35:47.042
♪ If you're with me
put your hands high ♪

2099
01:35:47.125 --> 01:35:49.125
(indistinct)

2100
01:35:49.209 --> 01:35:52.626
(song continues)

2101
01:35:52.709 --> 01:35:56.042
I have her!
We have her!

2102
01:35:56.125 --> 01:35:59.584
The package is delivered!
She's in the car!

2103
01:35:59.667 --> 01:36:03.167
♪ ♪

2104
01:36:08.125 --> 01:36:11.167
Oh! Oh my God,
they're so-- Look at that!

2105
01:36:12.500 --> 01:36:14.125
♪

2106
01:36:15.417 --> 01:36:18.459
(cheering)

2107
01:36:19.375 --> 01:36:22.500
(indistinct chatter)

2108
01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:27.125
(chatter continues)

2109
01:36:30.167 --> 01:36:32.459
It's nice and sunny
in here, too!

2110
01:36:32.542 --> 01:36:34.000
Oh my god!

2111
01:36:34.083 --> 01:36:36.334
Okay, I'm gonna cut the cake.
Hey, wait a minute.

2112
01:36:36.417 --> 01:36:38.751
I better not pick up that
knife on that camera.

2113
01:36:38.834 --> 01:36:39.918
(laughter)

2114
01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:41.375
Mike:
You can hold the kitchen knife.

2115
01:36:41.459 --> 01:36:42.959
(laughter)

2116
01:36:43.042 --> 01:36:46.417
Debbie Africa:
<i>I've been in prison</i>
<i>almost 40 years and, um,</i>

2117
01:36:46.500 --> 01:36:48.334
<i>I was released on Friday--</i>

2118
01:36:48.417 --> 01:36:52.042
<i>Saturday. Saturday, and, um,</i>

2119
01:36:52.125 --> 01:36:54.042
I still don't think
I've actually caught up

2120
01:36:54.125 --> 01:36:57.209
with my emotions on how
happy it makes me feel,

2121
01:36:57.292 --> 01:36:59.709
seeing my family and being--

2122
01:36:59.792 --> 01:37:01.083
I should say
united with my son

2123
01:37:01.167 --> 01:37:02.584
because I've never
been with him.

2124
01:37:02.667 --> 01:37:05.083
I had him in my prison
cell when I was in, uh,

2125
01:37:05.167 --> 01:37:07.167
the House of Correction,
and this is the first time

2126
01:37:07.250 --> 01:37:11.000
we've ever been together
in all those years.

2127
01:37:11.083 --> 01:37:14.292
-Mike: Mm.
-(shutters snapping)

2128
01:37:15.584 --> 01:37:17.250
But-- (clears throat)

2129
01:37:19.209 --> 01:37:21.417
And although, if I felt,

2130
01:37:21.500 --> 01:37:23.209
you know, excited
and overwhelmed
and happy

2131
01:37:23.292 --> 01:37:26.459
to see everybody that came up
to pick me up on Saturday,

2132
01:37:26.542 --> 01:37:29.417
I still felt, you know,

2133
01:37:29.500 --> 01:37:31.626
incomplete,
and it just wasn't--

2134
01:37:31.709 --> 01:37:34.876
It shouldn't have been
the fact that I left prison,

2135
01:37:34.959 --> 01:37:37.292
and my sisters,
Janine and Janet, didn't

2136
01:37:37.375 --> 01:37:39.751
because we came in
on the same charges,

2137
01:37:39.834 --> 01:37:41.417
we were arraigned the same,

2138
01:37:41.500 --> 01:37:44.167
we, um, we had the same hits

2139
01:37:44.250 --> 01:37:46.542
and everything,
the same charges,

2140
01:37:46.626 --> 01:37:49.209
but when it came time
to get out of prison,

2141
01:37:49.292 --> 01:37:52.542
they didn't do that the same.

2142
01:37:52.626 --> 01:37:54.792
So, my name is
Mike Africa Jr.

2143
01:37:54.876 --> 01:37:57.667
As you know, this is my
mother right here and, um,

2144
01:37:58.792 --> 01:38:00.751
our family has
been experienced,

2145
01:38:00.834 --> 01:38:03.417
the MOVE organization
has experienced so much,

2146
01:38:03.500 --> 01:38:08.375
um, hate and anger
from the system and, um,

2147
01:38:08.459 --> 01:38:12.167
this is a small victory,
but it is a victory.

2148
01:38:12.250 --> 01:38:15.334
But I say a small victory
because our family

2149
01:38:15.417 --> 01:38:18.250
is still separated.
We're still incomplete.

2150
01:38:18.334 --> 01:38:20.459
My father is
still in prison.

2151
01:38:20.542 --> 01:38:22.876
He was in prison--
He was arrested
with my mother

2152
01:38:22.959 --> 01:38:26.542
and the rest of the MOVE Nine
and he's still in prison, too.

2153
01:38:26.626 --> 01:38:29.125
I talked to my dad today.

2154
01:38:29.209 --> 01:38:32.000
Every time, every time
something happen, my dad,

2155
01:38:32.083 --> 01:38:34.083
like, come up with
a theme song for it,

2156
01:38:34.167 --> 01:38:36.751
the experience that he's
experiencing at the time.

2157
01:38:36.834 --> 01:38:39.584
(laughs)
And he got this thing...

2158
01:38:40.500 --> 01:38:42.375
He says, um,

2159
01:38:42.459 --> 01:38:44.542
so for this one, he says,

2160
01:38:44.626 --> 01:38:46.667
he said, "Man."
He said,

2161
01:38:46.751 --> 01:38:48.167
"Tell your mom that I--

2162
01:38:48.250 --> 01:38:50.667
that I said I got a new song."
And I said, "What's that?"

2163
01:38:50.751 --> 01:38:52.667
He said,
"Hold on, I'm coming."

2164
01:38:52.751 --> 01:38:55.626
He comes up in
September 2018,

2165
01:38:55.709 --> 01:38:59.500
so the same process
we used for her,
we're gonna use for him.

2166
01:38:59.584 --> 01:39:02.417
But only difference is
we're gonna need more

2167
01:39:02.500 --> 01:39:03.876
support for him

2168
01:39:03.959 --> 01:39:06.918
because people see men
as different than women.

2169
01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:09.876
So they-- he's gonna
need more support

2170
01:39:09.959 --> 01:39:11.918
than she, she needed.

2171
01:39:12.000 --> 01:39:14.584
♪ ♪

2172
01:39:14.667 --> 01:39:17.626
-Interviewer: Do you
think he'll get out?
-Do I think my dad'll get out?

2173
01:39:19.125 --> 01:39:21.876
I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful.

2174
01:39:26.667 --> 01:39:29.876
I believe that if
we have the pressure,

2175
01:39:29.959 --> 01:39:32.125
the same kind of
pressure that we applied

2176
01:39:32.209 --> 01:39:34.709
for my mom, and if he can

2177
01:39:34.792 --> 01:39:37.500
understand the importance of...

2178
01:39:38.626 --> 01:39:40.751
the way of cooperation,

2179
01:39:41.959 --> 01:39:44.334
and (clears throat)--
and we can get

2180
01:39:44.417 --> 01:39:48.083
the letters that we need
to have written from people

2181
01:39:48.167 --> 01:39:49.792
and support,

2182
01:39:49.876 --> 01:39:52.500
showing their
support for him,

2183
01:39:52.584 --> 01:39:55.834
I think that we have
a really good shot.

2184
01:39:56.918 --> 01:39:58.417
Really good shot.

2185
01:39:58.500 --> 01:40:01.584
♪ ♪

2186
01:40:03.292 --> 01:40:06.417
Mike (on phone):

2187
01:40:53.667 --> 01:40:54.751
<i>So he took the test.</i>

2188
01:40:54.834 --> 01:40:56.459
<i>It was all negative.
He passed the test.</i>

2189
01:40:56.542 --> 01:41:00.125
<i>Everything's good.
So now, it's just...</i>

2190
01:41:00.209 --> 01:41:01.709
<i>we're awaiting word.</i>

2191
01:41:01.792 --> 01:41:04.083
♪ ♪

2192
01:41:04.167 --> 01:41:05.584
Imagine being like...

2193
01:41:06.667 --> 01:41:09.500
stuck in--
stuck in traffic.

2194
01:41:09.584 --> 01:41:13.083
Like, you're driving your car.
You're headed home from work

2195
01:41:13.167 --> 01:41:16.167
after working
a long 12-hour day,

2196
01:41:16.250 --> 01:41:18.375
breaking your back,
trying to get your jobs done

2197
01:41:18.459 --> 01:41:21.042
so that you can get your
check for your family.

2198
01:41:21.125 --> 01:41:23.292
And you get in the car,

2199
01:41:23.375 --> 01:41:25.000
drive it for about 10 minutes,

2200
01:41:25.083 --> 01:41:27.834
and then you get
stuck in traffic.

2201
01:41:27.918 --> 01:41:29.792
And you're just like stuck,

2202
01:41:29.876 --> 01:41:33.834
gridlock, parking lot.
That shit'll drive you crazy.

2203
01:41:33.918 --> 01:41:38.500
Like, what the fuck? Why are
these cars not moving, right?

2204
01:41:38.584 --> 01:41:41.000
Imagine being stuck
like that for 40 years.

2205
01:41:43.918 --> 01:41:45.542
Forty years.

2206
01:41:45.626 --> 01:41:48.709
♪ ♪

2207
01:42:08.918 --> 01:42:10.918
Mike Africa Sr.:
<i>First time I seen Mike,</i>

2208
01:42:11.000 --> 01:42:13.751
<i>he was maybe six months old.</i>

2209
01:42:15.292 --> 01:42:18.876
<i>At that time, down Holmesburg,
there was no contact visits,</i>

2210
01:42:18.959 --> 01:42:21.000
<i>so I was tapping on
the window. "Hey, man.</i>

2211
01:42:21.083 --> 01:42:25.209
<i>Hey, Mike. Hey, hey."
And he was just looking.</i>

2212
01:42:25.292 --> 01:42:27.834
<i>It was just before
we got sent upstate.</i>

2213
01:42:27.918 --> 01:42:30.209
<i>He's 3. I asked him
what his name was,</i>

2214
01:42:30.292 --> 01:42:31.918
<i>and he said Michael.</i>

2215
01:42:32.000 --> 01:42:34.375
<i>I said, "You know
what my name is?"
He said, "Yeah, Michael."</i>

2216
01:42:34.459 --> 01:42:37.334
<i>I said, "You know why
we have the same name?"
I said,</i>

2217
01:42:37.417 --> 01:42:40.459
<i>"Because you're my son."
And he asked me,</i>

2218
01:42:40.542 --> 01:42:43.167
<i>"Can you sneak home
with us?" (laughs)</i>

2219
01:42:43.250 --> 01:42:46.334
♪ ♪

2220
01:42:55.125 --> 01:42:57.751
<i>It seemed that as soon
as he could comprehend</i>

2221
01:42:57.834 --> 01:43:00.167
<i>that they had held his parents</i>

2222
01:43:00.250 --> 01:43:02.626
<i>and that he could</i>

2223
01:43:02.709 --> 01:43:05.083
<i>do something about it,
and he tried.</i>

2224
01:43:05.167 --> 01:43:08.292
(inaudible)

2225
01:43:13.542 --> 01:43:17.709
<i>Yesterday was a culmination
of his efforts.</i>

2226
01:43:21.834 --> 01:43:24.792
<i>You know, as well as
a lot of people's, but.</i>

2227
01:43:27.292 --> 01:43:31.000
(birds chirping)

2228
01:43:31.083 --> 01:43:33.292
You know, of course
I wanted to be free.

2229
01:43:56.626 --> 01:43:58.250
But, uh...

2230
01:43:59.417 --> 01:44:02.167
knowing what it
would mean to him,

2231
01:44:03.292 --> 01:44:05.667
to our family, you know...

2232
01:44:06.834 --> 01:44:09.542
knowing how much effort,
you know,

2233
01:44:09.626 --> 01:44:11.751
he put his whole...

2234
01:44:15.250 --> 01:44:17.417
Wait a minute, stop.

2235
01:44:22.500 --> 01:44:23.417
(sniffs)

2236
01:44:25.334 --> 01:44:27.500
He has such a good heart, man.

2237
01:44:29.042 --> 01:44:32.459
And I didn't want his
whole life to be...

2238
01:44:32.542 --> 01:44:34.918
♪ ♪

2239
01:44:35.000 --> 01:44:36.083
um...

2240
01:44:41.167 --> 01:44:43.751
just something
that's wrapped up...

2241
01:44:46.125 --> 01:44:47.459
in...

2242
01:44:54.167 --> 01:44:56.334
trying to free us, man.

2243
01:44:57.042 --> 01:44:59.500
(inaudible)

2244
01:44:59.584 --> 01:45:02.167
<i>I was so glad for
Mike yesterday.</i>

2245
01:45:02.250 --> 01:45:04.876
<i>You know, of course
I wanted to be free,</i>

2246
01:45:04.959 --> 01:45:07.751
but I was so glad that
he didn't have that...

2247
01:45:08.959 --> 01:45:12.167
that burden on him anymore, man.

2248
01:45:12.250 --> 01:45:15.334
(inaudible)

2249
01:45:20.417 --> 01:45:23.500
(inaudible)

2250
01:45:29.751 --> 01:45:32.834
♪ ♪

2251
01:45:49.250 --> 01:45:51.626
<i>I'm glad me and his mom is out,
you know,</i>

2252
01:45:51.709 --> 01:45:54.083
<i>not just because we're free,</i>

2253
01:45:54.167 --> 01:45:56.792
<i>but, you know, it freed him.</i>

2254
01:45:56.876 --> 01:46:01.250
♪

2255
01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:41.292
-It's finally here.
-Yep. And I'll tell you,

2256
01:46:41.375 --> 01:46:44.792
I can go through the rest of
my life like this, really.

2257
01:46:44.876 --> 01:46:47.417
-I bet you can!
-I ain't got that much
long to live though, so...

2258
01:46:47.500 --> 01:46:49.584
-What? Why would you say that?
-(laughing)

2259
01:46:49.667 --> 01:46:52.209
-Why-- Why would you say that?
-I'm just playing.

2260
01:46:52.292 --> 01:46:53.918
♪ ♪

2261
01:46:54.000 --> 01:46:55.834
(laughing)

2262
01:46:58.167 --> 01:46:59.751
This cake has got
to be good.

2263
01:46:59.834 --> 01:47:01.751
Did you count
your 10 eggs?

2264
01:47:03.167 --> 01:47:05.375
I got at least 25.
Shit, that's a long time.

2265
01:47:05.459 --> 01:47:08.000
-Why would she say that?!
-(laughing)

2266
01:47:09.792 --> 01:47:12.500
Maybe he can still
teach me some things.

2267
01:47:12.584 --> 01:47:14.584
I'm sure I'll be teaching
him a lot of things.

2268
01:47:14.667 --> 01:47:17.000
Hey, Dad! Did you ever
see one of these before?

2269
01:47:17.083 --> 01:47:18.626
(laughing)

2270
01:47:20.751 --> 01:47:22.792
-(laughing)
-Mike: What
the hell are you doing?

2271
01:47:22.876 --> 01:47:25.792
-Are you trying to pose?
-I don't know.

2272
01:47:25.876 --> 01:47:27.500
Look at Grandma there.

2273
01:47:31.459 --> 01:47:32.959
We met when
we was about 14.

2274
01:47:33.042 --> 01:47:36.083
-Who wouldn't love her in
this hat? Look at this hat.
-(laughing)

2275
01:47:36.167 --> 01:47:37.959
Only a husband
who loves his wife

2276
01:47:38.042 --> 01:47:40.751
would love her in
this hat. (laughs)

2277
01:47:41.959 --> 01:47:46.000
Oh, um, well I remember
when I was born, right?

2278
01:47:46.083 --> 01:47:48.042
-You remember when
you was born? (laughs)
-I mean--

2279
01:47:48.125 --> 01:47:51.375
-No, I don't remember
when I was born.
-I know what you mean.

2280
01:47:51.459 --> 01:47:54.542
♪ ♪

2281
01:48:11.334 --> 01:48:13.667
<i>♪ I told my mama
she was priceless ♪</i>

2282
01:48:13.751 --> 01:48:16.250
<i>♪ She told me she
wanted the good life ♪</i>

2283
01:48:16.334 --> 01:48:18.667
<i>♪ I told my mama
I'ma give you that ♪</i>

2284
01:48:18.751 --> 01:48:21.250
<i>♪ She said she wanna live
her best life, no strife ♪</i>

2285
01:48:21.334 --> 01:48:23.667
<i>♪ I said yo, Mama,
you deserve it all ♪</i>

2286
01:48:23.751 --> 01:48:26.167
<i>♪ She said she really
didn't want much ♪</i>

2287
01:48:26.250 --> 01:48:29.083
<i>♪ I asked her what you want
for me to do? She said ♪</i>

2288
01:48:29.167 --> 01:48:31.584
<i>♪ You gave me what I want
because I'm home with you ♪</i>

2289
01:48:31.667 --> 01:48:33.667
<i>♪ Hey! Fly, baby... ♪</i>

2290
01:48:33.751 --> 01:48:37.292
Forty-two years of this thing,
and I said...

2291
01:48:38.667 --> 01:48:40.250
I hated to see

2292
01:48:40.334 --> 01:48:44.083
-them still there,
you know? But...
-Right.

2293
01:48:44.167 --> 01:48:46.834
-It's good to be home.
It's good to be home.
-Mm-hmm.

2294
01:48:46.918 --> 01:48:50.125
It's good to be with
family, with friends.

2295
01:48:51.626 --> 01:48:53.751
And put that, that activity,

2296
01:48:53.834 --> 01:48:56.959
(laughs) that prison
activity behind me.

2297
01:48:57.042 --> 01:48:59.417
-I'm glad. I'm ready.
-(indistinct)

2298
01:48:59.500 --> 01:49:01.667
You'll never be
back at Dallas.

2299
01:49:01.751 --> 01:49:03.834
Ah! I told, I told, uh,

2300
01:49:03.918 --> 01:49:07.209
Chaplain Hoke, I said,
"I'll be back
to free somebody else."