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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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Frank Rizzo:
The police will be in there
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to drag them out by
the backs of their necks.
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Reporter:
There will be a confrontation
this time?
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-There'll be no barricade?
-I don't know.
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It's up to them whether--
No barricades, Mike.
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They're going to be taken
by force if they resist.
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♪ ♪
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Reporter 1:
Four minutes of gunfire
in West Philadelphia
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early this morning,
and it was over.
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One Philadelphia
policeman killed.
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The members of the
back-to-nature group MOVE
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had been routed
from their house.
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This was the MOVE house
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until a few hours ago.
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-The judge said guilty.
-Reporter 2: One by one,
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handcuffed
and heavily guarded.
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"Bring your ass out here,"
Michael Africa shouted
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at Judge Edwin Malmed.
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"I find you guilty of
murder in the third degree."
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(voices overlapping):
"Liar! Liar!"
shouted Delbert Africa.
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"How can you find someone
guilty in this illegal court?"
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Reporter 3:
It was the same
with all the others.
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All shouting obscenities,
all claiming...
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00:01:01,542 --> 00:01:03,626
emotions of the MOVE
supporters were the same.
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You killed my family!
You killed our babies!
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You railroaded our people!
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Judge Edwin Malmed:
They have at all times
maintained
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they were a family
and acted together.
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Therefore, I took them
at their own word.
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They're a family and have
all acted together,
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then they acted in concert.
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They acted jointly,
and they should all share
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equally in
the punishment imposed.
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Reporter 4:
The judge gave
all nine defendants,
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five men and four women,
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a minimum of
30 years in prison.
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Reporter 5:
Prosecutors felt
justice was served
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with the third-degree
murder conviction.
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And he listened to
all of the evidence,
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listened to the arguments
of both sides,
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and showed that our
system can work.
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Reporter 6:
But do you think that if and
when the policemen leave,
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and the things will return
pretty much to normal,
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that you could live...
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-a normal life in
this neighborhood?
-I don't think so.
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There's always
gonna be a memory
of what has happened.
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(inaudible)
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I don't think it'll ever go
back to a normal situation.
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Rizzo:
Get that death penalty back
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and put 'em in
the electric chair
and I'll pull the switch.
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-That's when I'm sure
they'll not be around.
-(applause)
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(car rumbling)
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Interviewer:
Tell me where we're going.
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Oh, we're going to
Graterford Prison,
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SCI Graterford,
they call it.
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State Correctional
Institution Graterford.
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-I prefer to call it
something else, but--
-Interviewer: What's that?
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A st-- a state "incorrectional"
institution!
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There's no correction
happening there.
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Prison is supposed to, like,
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uh, correct you
and make you better
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and make you a different person.
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If it was the answer to crime,
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you wouldn't have more of 'em.
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Interviewer:
How long you been
going to prison?
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I've been going to the prison
for about 38 years. (laughs)
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Interviewer:
Why have you been going
to prison for 38 years?
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I'm going to prison--
been going to prison
for 38 years
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because I need to see
my mother and father.
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And they are both in prison.
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So today, we're going to
the prison that my father's at.
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♪ ♪
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The first time I went to
see my dad that I remember,
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I was, I guess, about 4 or 5.
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And...
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he's asking me
do I know who he is.
And I'm like, nah.
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I mean, you know,
I don't know who he is.
No one told me
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who we were going to see,
so I didn't know.
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So he, you know,
he, he sits me down and,
and he's talking to my sister.
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My sister seems to know
who he is, and my cousin,
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who was also there,
he seems to know
who he is, too.
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And he's asking me
do I know and I say, "No."
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And he says,
"Well, my name is Michael."
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And I said, okay, like?
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I'm looking like,
where, where is this going?
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And he says,
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"Do you know why both
our names are Michael?"
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And I said, "No."
He said, "Because
I'm your father."
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And I was like, what?
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Like, I got one
of those? (laughs)
You know.
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And I hugged him, you know.
And we linked, we bonded
like that immediately.
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I called him Dad right away.
I didn't even--
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No one even had to,
like, coach me.
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It didn't feel weird,
you know, at all.
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And, and, um--
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And I hugged him and,
and he hugged me and...
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I don't know if he was crying,
but I think he might've been.
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You know, my dad
don't really show emotions
like that, you know,
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but, um, that's--
that's when I remember
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knowing that my dad was,
you know...
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and, uh,
and I said to him, I said, um,
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I said, "Why-why can't
you come home with us?"
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And he said, "I can't
come home with--"
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And I said, "Why not?" I said,
"We walked right in the door,
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"and when we leave,
we're gonna walk out the door.
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Why can't you just
walk out when we walk out?"
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And he said, he said,
"I can't."
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♪ ♪
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That's my mama.
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Well, that's a picture
of my mama. (laughs)
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♪
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That's us at the prison. Look,
that's my teeth in front of me.
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When I realized that
my parents were in prison,
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I started looking for
pictures of them together.
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They got together when
they were real young.
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I mean, they went to prison
when they were 21 and 22.
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So there weren't even a lot
of even pictures of them.
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As an adult,
I don't have any
pictures of my dad
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doing anything,
wearing street clothes.
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♪ ♪
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When I learned that they
were actually in prison for
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the killing of a cop,
I might've been
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12 or 13 years old or whatever.
And I asked my dad, I said,
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"Is there anybody in this
prison here for murder?"
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He shook his head
and laughed a little bit.
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He said, "Yeah.
They got me in here for murder."
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And...
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It hit me like a ton of bricks.
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Interviewer:
So why do you keep
fighting to get them out?
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Why do I keep fighting
to get them out? (laugh)
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I keep fighting to get
them out because...
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I still am connected to 'em.
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I'm committed to them
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the way that they
were committed to me
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which got the situation
the way it was.
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This is MOVE and this
is 309 North 33rd.
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MOVE is a totally
revolutionary organization,
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and the purpose
of MOVE is to
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exhibit bias activity for
the purpose of revolution.
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Janine Africa:
Well, I didn't just
join MOVE, you know.
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I was raising my child.
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I was on welfare and, uh,
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it had to be proven to me first,
and they did prove that
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they knew what they
was talking about,
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and that they were the only
people that could help me.
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I was indoctrinated with
a philosophy and a path
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that revolution only
meant picking up a gun
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and going out
and murdering somebody.
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I never thought that
revolution consisted of
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revolutionizing myself
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to get away from the things
that caused me to wanna revolt.
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Tom Kranz:
They talked about living
a natural lifestyle,
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um, not eating processed food,
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wearing simple clothing,
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respecting all forms of life.
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They talked about
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being disciples of John Africa.
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They all took
John Africa's name.
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Man:
Where is John Africa?
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That's organization
business right now.
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Teachings of John Africa are
inherent in his disciples.
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His works are shown
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in the healthiness
of our children,
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the sturdiness of our building,
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the way we live, alright?
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What we're saying is that,
for security reasons,
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John Africa's whereabouts
are organization business,
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and we will keep it that way.
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We're not asking people
to idolize a figure,
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a so-called leader as they
have done in the past.
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What we are asking people
to do is take a serious look
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at their lifestyle as
John Africa has said,
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see it for what it is,
and do away with it.
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♪ ♪
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Officer Kressey,
could you characterize
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types of meetings
or demonstrations
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and what the issues that
were being raised by
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the MOVE organization were?
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Their main thing
was animal rights,
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protesting that all
animals should be free.
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Prisoners' rights,
community housing...
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00:08:08,417 --> 00:08:09,834
people incarcerated.
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00:08:09,918 --> 00:08:12,167
Was there any indication
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00:08:12,250 --> 00:08:15,292
that you were aware of that,
uh, the MOVE members
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00:08:15,375 --> 00:08:17,417
were potentially violent?
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00:08:17,500 --> 00:08:21,042
Other than being vocal, no, sir.
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So this one particular night,
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March 28th, 1976.
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Our people were
coming home from jail.
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We had a big yellow school bus.
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I went down there to the House
of Correction, picked them up.
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And then when we got back,
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there was a big celebration,
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and not too long after that,
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we was moved on by
a whole bunch of cops.
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Cops was swinging their
nightsticks so hard
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on people that they
broke 'em in half.
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Those sadistic, vicious,
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storm trooper cops
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took Janine
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00:09:03,083 --> 00:09:05,959
in their haste, and just
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00:09:06,042 --> 00:09:09,209
rushed and knocked
her to the ground,
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crushing her baby's skull.
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00:09:12,667 --> 00:09:15,042
The cops wasn't listening to
anything that was being said.
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00:09:15,125 --> 00:09:17,459
They're just coming at us
with the sticks and I say, like,
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my wife, Janine Africa,
was in front of me
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as we came out the gate,
and backing up,
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trying to protect me,
you know, like,
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they just literally,
you know, like,
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sticks swinging and everything,
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flung her out the way,
you know,
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and start coming right
across her to get to me.
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The baby died
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with a crushed skull caused
by the fall of my wife.
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You could see blood
running out the baby's nose.
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They carry life that long,
and then just like, you know,
in one, you know,
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00:09:45,250 --> 00:09:48,334
one scene like that,
to have life destroyed.
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00:09:48,417 --> 00:09:51,500
♪ ♪
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They tried to say
the baby never existed.
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00:09:59,751 --> 00:10:01,334
The baby was only one month old.
223
00:10:01,417 --> 00:10:03,000
She gave birth to him at home,
224
00:10:03,083 --> 00:10:05,500
so of course she did not
have a birth certificate.
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00:10:05,584 --> 00:10:07,542
We actually called
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00:10:07,626 --> 00:10:10,626
-all these councilmen
and people out...
-Mm-hmm.
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00:10:10,709 --> 00:10:12,709
to confirm
228
00:10:12,792 --> 00:10:16,459
and justify and qualify
our position here.
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00:10:16,542 --> 00:10:20,334
We actually showed them
the baby's body.
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00:10:25,375 --> 00:10:28,042
It was wrapped and it was dead.
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00:10:28,125 --> 00:10:32,709
Um, but they would never
give the baby up to have
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00:10:32,792 --> 00:10:34,584
a autopsy.
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00:10:34,667 --> 00:10:36,626
Linn Washington Jr.:
The city was in
serious denial mode.
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00:10:36,709 --> 00:10:38,918
"No, we didn't do it.
We didn't do..."
235
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,000
But, you know,
those denials didn't have
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00:10:41,083 --> 00:10:42,959
too much weight
because they were also
237
00:10:43,042 --> 00:10:44,918
denying the gross
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00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,292
brutality that was
going on by the police,
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00:10:47,375 --> 00:10:49,584
either being beatings
or fatal shootings.
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Nothing was done about it.
241
00:10:52,584 --> 00:10:55,083
Nothing was
ever done about
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00:10:55,167 --> 00:10:58,125
anything that happened
to the MOVE organization.
243
00:10:58,209 --> 00:11:01,417
This is what started
everything with MOVE.
244
00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:04,334
We didn't just
jump out the house,
245
00:11:04,417 --> 00:11:06,751
start calling cops
"motherfuckers".
246
00:11:06,834 --> 00:11:09,417
It is impossible to
describe a maniac,
247
00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:12,584
a profane, obscene,
pornographic freak
248
00:11:12,667 --> 00:11:14,375
without using profane words!
249
00:11:14,459 --> 00:11:16,667
-Motherfuckers!
-(cheering)
250
00:11:16,751 --> 00:11:20,459
I mean, we do call
cops "motherfuckers".
Not to curse.
251
00:11:20,542 --> 00:11:23,250
We don't ever call them
a pig because we got respect
252
00:11:23,334 --> 00:11:25,918
for the pig
because the pig is life.
253
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,751
I believe you said there were
over 100 some-odd arrests.
254
00:11:28,834 --> 00:11:31,459
What was the nature
of those arrests?
What were they for?
255
00:11:31,542 --> 00:11:34,876
There was 193.
Terroristic threats, riot,
256
00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:36,667
aggravated A&B, A&B,
257
00:11:36,751 --> 00:11:39,209
disorderly conduct,
failure to disperse.
258
00:11:39,292 --> 00:11:43,042
We were given a strategy
by MOVE's founder
259
00:11:43,125 --> 00:11:44,792
to take a stand.
260
00:11:44,876 --> 00:11:47,375
We're showing people
now the importance,
261
00:11:47,459 --> 00:11:50,083
the immediacy of getting
rid of this system,
262
00:11:50,167 --> 00:11:51,459
of confronting these judges,
263
00:11:51,542 --> 00:11:53,626
of getting rid of these
crooked, crooked cops,
264
00:11:53,709 --> 00:11:56,042
and the whole
cop system altogether.
265
00:11:56,125 --> 00:11:58,417
It's dangerous to life,
doesn't help life.
266
00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:02,167
It destroys, cripples,
retards, even kills life,
267
00:12:02,250 --> 00:12:03,709
and that's what
we're about now.
268
00:12:03,792 --> 00:12:07,083
The story started to grow
of the neighbors' complaints,
269
00:12:07,167 --> 00:12:09,584
the whole bullhorn thing.
I didn't quite get
270
00:12:09,667 --> 00:12:11,584
why they were doing that
because this didn't sound like
271
00:12:11,667 --> 00:12:12,959
the group that I interviewed.
272
00:12:13,042 --> 00:12:15,125
Chuckie Africa (on bullhorn):
As long as this system
273
00:12:15,209 --> 00:12:17,292
will impose on us,
274
00:12:17,375 --> 00:12:20,417
by us being non-violent,
we must fight back.
275
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:23,209
They built this fort-like
276
00:12:23,292 --> 00:12:25,876
structure around their house,
like a parapet.
277
00:12:25,959 --> 00:12:27,709
Walls, two-by-sixes,
278
00:12:27,792 --> 00:12:30,751
two-by-eights,
ducked in the ground
straight up and down
279
00:12:30,834 --> 00:12:32,209
with a walkway on the inside.
280
00:12:32,292 --> 00:12:34,334
Right in the middle of
this urban neighborhood
281
00:12:34,417 --> 00:12:36,667
surrounded by families and kids,
282
00:12:36,751 --> 00:12:38,709
and now there's,
you know, there's
283
00:12:38,792 --> 00:12:41,709
timber and there's
these big metal plates.
284
00:12:41,792 --> 00:12:45,167
Officer Kressey:
The first and second
floor windows
285
00:12:45,250 --> 00:12:47,209
of 309 North 33rd Street
286
00:12:47,292 --> 00:12:48,792
are now boarded up.
287
00:12:48,876 --> 00:12:51,918
There are no longer gonna
be anymore beatings,
288
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,792
no more brutality,
289
00:12:53,876 --> 00:12:56,792
without us defending ourselves.
290
00:12:56,876 --> 00:12:59,083
If you come at us
with your hands,
291
00:12:59,167 --> 00:13:00,918
we'll come back at you
with our hands.
292
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,834
Delbert Africa:
If the police come in
here with their hands,
293
00:13:02,918 --> 00:13:04,959
we'll use our hands.
If they come in here with clubs,
294
00:13:05,042 --> 00:13:07,125
we'll use clubs. But if
they come in here shooting
295
00:13:07,209 --> 00:13:09,584
and killing our women
and children and our men,
296
00:13:09,667 --> 00:13:12,292
we will shoot back
in defense of our lives.
297
00:13:12,375 --> 00:13:15,542
♪ ♪
298
00:13:21,292 --> 00:13:23,500
Man 1:
You may call your next witness.
299
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,542
Man 2:
Call, uh,
300
00:13:26,626 --> 00:13:29,125
Louise James and Laverne Sims.
301
00:13:33,959 --> 00:13:38,334
Mrs. James and Mrs. Sims,
if you can turn around, uh...
302
00:13:39,417 --> 00:13:41,000
Can you see
these photographs?
303
00:13:41,083 --> 00:13:42,209
Both:
Yes, I can. Yeah.
304
00:13:42,292 --> 00:13:43,876
These were photographs,
as I understand,
305
00:13:43,959 --> 00:13:45,709
that were taken on...
306
00:13:45,792 --> 00:13:48,500
May 20th, 1977, in front of
the Powelton Street house.
307
00:13:48,584 --> 00:13:51,459
-Both: I recognize it. Yeah.
-Man 2: Powelton Village.
You recognize it?
308
00:13:51,542 --> 00:13:54,876
-And were those members
of the MOVE organization?
-Both: Yes, they were.
309
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,250
-Were they weapons?
-I don't know.
310
00:13:59,751 --> 00:14:02,000
Man 2:
What did the MOVE members
311
00:14:02,083 --> 00:14:04,876
say on May 20th, '77?
312
00:14:04,959 --> 00:14:07,292
"If you think that this
white racist society
313
00:14:07,375 --> 00:14:09,459
"will shoot down those
white students at
314
00:14:09,542 --> 00:14:11,792
"Kent State,
you think they'll hesitate
315
00:14:11,876 --> 00:14:14,083
"shooting down any
Black, Puerto Rican,
316
00:14:14,167 --> 00:14:16,959
"or Chicano brothers
here in Philadelphia?
317
00:14:17,042 --> 00:14:18,792
"No. How many times did you
318
00:14:18,876 --> 00:14:21,000
"pick up the paper
and read about another
319
00:14:21,083 --> 00:14:23,334
"Puerto Rican, another Mexican,
another Black man
320
00:14:23,417 --> 00:14:26,042
"shot in cold blood
'cause some cop said,
321
00:14:26,125 --> 00:14:28,459
'I thought I saw
a piece of shiny metal.
322
00:14:28,542 --> 00:14:29,876
I thought he'd shoot me.'"
323
00:14:29,959 --> 00:14:32,292
Since you become
mayor in 1972,
324
00:14:32,375 --> 00:14:34,709
more than 150 people
have been
325
00:14:34,792 --> 00:14:37,334
killed by police,
that more than half
326
00:14:37,417 --> 00:14:38,918
of these people
who were killed
327
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,334
were said to be
unarmed at the time.
328
00:14:41,417 --> 00:14:44,125
Isn't this a rather high
incidence of unarmed people
329
00:14:44,209 --> 00:14:47,167
-being killed by policemen
in the line of their duty?
-No, I--
330
00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:48,334
No, I don't think so.
331
00:14:48,417 --> 00:14:51,542
We have to decide who
should be more aggressive,
332
00:14:51,626 --> 00:14:54,250
the police
or the criminal element.
333
00:14:54,334 --> 00:14:56,125
I'm on the side of
the police every time.
334
00:14:56,209 --> 00:14:59,250
If the police department of
Philadelphia was not aggressive,
335
00:14:59,334 --> 00:15:01,542
I would fire
the police commissioner.
336
00:15:01,626 --> 00:15:04,584
More testimony today in
the trial of six homicide cops
337
00:15:04,667 --> 00:15:06,250
charged with beating witnesses.
338
00:15:06,334 --> 00:15:08,083
Reporter 1:
Warren was shot
once in the head
339
00:15:08,167 --> 00:15:10,417
by Officer Bow as Warren fled
340
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:11,959
from the police
administration building...
341
00:15:12,042 --> 00:15:13,751
Reporter 2:
Three off-duty cops
have shot people
342
00:15:13,834 --> 00:15:15,417
who were not armed...
343
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:18,292
Reporter 3:
Officer Robert Flint, now
Sergeant Flint, chased Craig,
344
00:15:18,375 --> 00:15:20,834
beat him with a nightstick
and shot him to death.
345
00:15:20,918 --> 00:15:22,250
The family was never notified
346
00:15:22,334 --> 00:15:25,959
by police, hearing the news
instead on the radio.
347
00:15:26,042 --> 00:15:28,375
When you cannot reach out
348
00:15:28,459 --> 00:15:31,918
to the officials
and get justice,
349
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,209
when you cannot get justice
350
00:15:34,292 --> 00:15:36,834
from anybody in a city,
351
00:15:36,918 --> 00:15:39,959
what do you do
and where do you go?
352
00:15:40,042 --> 00:15:42,250
Everybody has a saturation point
353
00:15:42,334 --> 00:15:44,125
that they reach sometimes
354
00:15:44,209 --> 00:15:47,542
in their lives when you
just can't take anymore!
355
00:15:47,626 --> 00:15:49,959
♪ ♪
356
00:15:50,042 --> 00:15:54,042
Carlos Africa:
The May 20th, 1977,
confrontation jumped off.
357
00:15:54,125 --> 00:15:55,626
I had just came off
358
00:15:55,709 --> 00:15:59,209
from the county prison, um...
359
00:15:59,292 --> 00:16:02,751
I had did a year for
a crime I didn't commit.
360
00:16:02,834 --> 00:16:05,709
The MOVE organization
helped get me out
361
00:16:05,792 --> 00:16:07,959
through the teachings
of John Africa,
362
00:16:08,042 --> 00:16:10,375
and I came home.
363
00:16:10,459 --> 00:16:12,918
And the MOVE members
asked me
364
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,500
did I want to be with them
365
00:16:14,584 --> 00:16:18,209
at the headquarters
on Powelton Avenue,
366
00:16:18,292 --> 00:16:20,667
or did I wanna do things
outside the organization,
367
00:16:20,751 --> 00:16:22,459
outside the headquarters.
368
00:16:22,542 --> 00:16:25,083
And I said I'd rather
be with them inside
369
00:16:25,167 --> 00:16:26,667
of the MOVE headquarters.
370
00:16:26,751 --> 00:16:29,209
Woman:
And there was this
business of warrants
371
00:16:29,292 --> 00:16:32,125
were issued. I don't
know whether it was 11
or the number--
372
00:16:32,209 --> 00:16:35,292
a large number of warrants
were issued for John Doe Africa,
373
00:16:35,375 --> 00:16:37,000
meaning that all of the persons
374
00:16:37,083 --> 00:16:39,459
on the parapet, on the platform
375
00:16:39,542 --> 00:16:43,250
would be arrested
if they came off.
376
00:16:43,334 --> 00:16:45,459
Kitty Caparella:
There's a part of me that
really feels bad for them.
377
00:16:45,542 --> 00:16:49,209
I know that's crazy 'cause
I thought that they were really
378
00:16:49,292 --> 00:16:53,125
harming the city,
and yet they were...
379
00:16:53,959 --> 00:16:55,918
They were kids adrift.
380
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,918
They were kids adrift
who were in a cult and
381
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,042
John Africa
was the cult leader.
382
00:17:02,125 --> 00:17:05,709
Pam Africa:
My mother actually
was trying to hire
383
00:17:05,792 --> 00:17:09,042
a deprogrammer for me
384
00:17:09,125 --> 00:17:11,000
and all, because...
385
00:17:11,083 --> 00:17:13,250
I'm beginning to look like MOVE.
386
00:17:13,334 --> 00:17:14,959
I'm beginning
to look like MOVE,
387
00:17:15,042 --> 00:17:18,292
you know, because I'm learning
something different.
388
00:17:18,375 --> 00:17:21,751
I'm learning that what
I thought I knew I didn't,
389
00:17:21,834 --> 00:17:23,375
and the people
390
00:17:23,459 --> 00:17:26,083
that, you know,
I thought was about
391
00:17:26,167 --> 00:17:30,209
doing the right thing
and, uh, um, they wasn't.
392
00:17:30,876 --> 00:17:31,834
They wasn't.
393
00:17:31,918 --> 00:17:34,626
You had, um, the cops
that was coming,
394
00:17:34,709 --> 00:17:37,042
and there was this
one highway patrolman.
395
00:17:37,125 --> 00:17:40,125
He would say all kinds of things
about the women and stuff,
396
00:17:40,209 --> 00:17:42,626
trying to force people to come
down and get into fights.
397
00:17:42,709 --> 00:17:44,667
I mean, they were just...
398
00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:46,876
vulgar people.
399
00:17:48,292 --> 00:17:50,751
You got in front of them,
they'd just curse you out.
400
00:17:50,834 --> 00:17:52,500
The girls would get down
and do 50 push-ups
401
00:17:52,584 --> 00:17:54,334
and challenge you to do it.
402
00:17:54,417 --> 00:17:55,584
Which we couldn't do.
403
00:17:55,667 --> 00:17:58,459
They say, "We would
kill every last one of you
404
00:17:58,542 --> 00:18:00,959
"lousy no-good niggers,
405
00:18:01,042 --> 00:18:02,709
"spic motherfuckers,
406
00:18:02,792 --> 00:18:04,751
"white trash before we let
407
00:18:04,834 --> 00:18:08,626
any of your people out."
I mean, they was
talking real nasty.
408
00:18:08,709 --> 00:18:11,417
Bob Hurst:
The kids were all naked,
409
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:13,459
and the women were...
410
00:18:14,334 --> 00:18:16,125
darn near naked.
411
00:18:16,209 --> 00:18:19,751
And the guys never wore
shirts or anything,
412
00:18:19,834 --> 00:18:21,918
and all the time
413
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,626
mouthing off.
That's all they did, loud.
414
00:18:25,709 --> 00:18:28,918
Loud, I mean,
I put in a pair of...
415
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,959
ear things on. I mean,
416
00:18:31,042 --> 00:18:33,834
you just got tired of
listening to it.
Just saying cr--
417
00:18:33,918 --> 00:18:35,584
stuff over and over.
418
00:18:35,667 --> 00:18:38,125
The radical this and that,
blah, blah, blah.
419
00:18:38,209 --> 00:18:41,167
And they're eating raw food.
420
00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:43,542
And then the rats
421
00:18:43,626 --> 00:18:45,459
and cats and dogs
422
00:18:45,542 --> 00:18:47,250
and all of that sort of thing.
423
00:18:47,334 --> 00:18:49,250
I mean, as soon
as you got home,
424
00:18:49,334 --> 00:18:50,918
you had to take
a shower immediately,
425
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,417
even though you weren't
in the compound with them.
426
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:57,250
It was just filthy,
absolutely filthy.
427
00:18:57,334 --> 00:19:00,000
Man:
These dogs been
picked up just because
428
00:19:00,083 --> 00:19:02,250
they had been rejected
by the society.
429
00:19:02,334 --> 00:19:03,709
We found them homeless,
430
00:19:03,792 --> 00:19:06,209
we found them wandering
the streets, starving.
431
00:19:06,292 --> 00:19:08,459
Walt Palmer:
If we had not begun
to start the process
432
00:19:08,542 --> 00:19:12,125
of getting more people's
eyes on this thing,
433
00:19:12,209 --> 00:19:14,709
I truly believe they
would've been killed.
434
00:19:14,792 --> 00:19:17,667
They would've killed them
without thought or question.
435
00:19:17,751 --> 00:19:19,500
Interviewer:
When you say they,
who do you mean?
436
00:19:19,584 --> 00:19:21,834
Police.
The police, the city.
437
00:19:21,918 --> 00:19:24,792
The community was getting
very concerned because
438
00:19:24,876 --> 00:19:27,167
the police presence started
to grow quite a bit,
439
00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:29,751
and the attention that
was starting to get
440
00:19:29,834 --> 00:19:31,167
locally and nationally.
441
00:19:31,250 --> 00:19:34,209
Reporter:
What about the situation
here as it's been
442
00:19:34,292 --> 00:19:35,959
disturbing the residents,
443
00:19:36,042 --> 00:19:38,000
the eyesore,
444
00:19:38,083 --> 00:19:40,876
uh, the commotion
they've caused.
Does that bother you?
445
00:19:40,959 --> 00:19:43,209
Compared to the possibility
of people getting killed,
446
00:19:43,292 --> 00:19:44,500
that doesn't bother me at all.
447
00:19:44,584 --> 00:19:46,334
I mean,
I would hope that eventually
448
00:19:46,417 --> 00:19:48,167
the community could work
out these differences,
449
00:19:48,250 --> 00:19:51,209
but we don't think
that the police
can provide a solution
450
00:19:51,292 --> 00:19:53,626
because their solution
is with weapons.
451
00:19:53,709 --> 00:19:55,500
Now, you just said
the possibility of people
452
00:19:55,584 --> 00:19:58,083
-getting killed
doesn't bother you.
-No, the possi--
453
00:19:58,167 --> 00:20:00,876
-What do you mean?
-You don't believe that people
will be killed over this?
454
00:20:00,959 --> 00:20:02,584
I don't think that
MOVE has any intention
455
00:20:02,667 --> 00:20:04,209
of hurting people
in the neighborhood.
456
00:20:04,292 --> 00:20:07,542
I think the dispute is
between MOVE and the police.
457
00:20:07,626 --> 00:20:10,334
Do you see yourselves as
negotiators, go-betweens?
458
00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,334
No, not really.
459
00:20:12,417 --> 00:20:14,125
MOVE does have
a lawyer right now,
460
00:20:14,209 --> 00:20:16,125
and I think he's
playing that role.
461
00:20:16,209 --> 00:20:20,000
♪ ♪
462
00:20:20,083 --> 00:20:22,626
What would you like me to say?
463
00:20:22,709 --> 00:20:26,334
I did give one interview
to a fellow
464
00:20:26,417 --> 00:20:29,792
who was doing
a book on conflicts
465
00:20:29,876 --> 00:20:31,667
and conflict resolution.
466
00:20:31,751 --> 00:20:34,459
Interviewer:
They use that book
at Carnegie Mellon.
467
00:20:34,542 --> 00:20:36,667
-Really?
-Interviewer: Mm-hmm.
468
00:20:36,751 --> 00:20:38,626
I don't agree
with its philosophy.
469
00:20:38,709 --> 00:20:42,626
I don't think every reso--
every problem can be solved.
470
00:20:42,709 --> 00:20:45,167
I think there are some
problems that are intractable.
471
00:20:45,250 --> 00:20:49,167
Interviewer:
Did you think the MOVE
conflict was one of those?
472
00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:51,042
Not when I started.
473
00:20:51,125 --> 00:20:52,834
As I think I said yesterday
474
00:20:52,918 --> 00:20:55,000
that the gulf between
both sides is so wide,
475
00:20:55,083 --> 00:20:57,834
it's very difficult for either
side to trust the other.
476
00:20:57,918 --> 00:20:59,500
My first involvement
with them was
477
00:20:59,584 --> 00:21:02,709
I was court appointed
as standby counsel
478
00:21:02,792 --> 00:21:06,292
to represent one of
the three defendants who were
479
00:21:06,375 --> 00:21:08,334
being charged with
having created a riot
480
00:21:08,417 --> 00:21:10,167
on the seventh floor
of City Hall.
481
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:11,834
And got, kinda got to know them,
482
00:21:11,918 --> 00:21:14,167
and I was very curious about
483
00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:15,918
their philosophy
484
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,959
to be able to get society
485
00:21:19,042 --> 00:21:21,000
to address what they considered
486
00:21:21,083 --> 00:21:25,459
to be the main ills
of society, which was
technology.
487
00:21:25,542 --> 00:21:28,751
They felt that man
should return, basically,
488
00:21:28,834 --> 00:21:31,125
to a state of nature.
489
00:21:31,209 --> 00:21:35,292
In my mind, it was almost
like the Lockean philosophy
490
00:21:35,375 --> 00:21:37,250
of a state of nature,
491
00:21:37,334 --> 00:21:39,667
and, of course,
it was totally impractical.
492
00:21:39,751 --> 00:21:42,375
I mean, you know, a city
with millions of people,
493
00:21:42,459 --> 00:21:45,500
there wouldn't be any way
that the city could
properly function.
494
00:21:45,584 --> 00:21:48,626
To have somebody
who was educated,
495
00:21:48,709 --> 00:21:51,209
who should be able to
think things through,
496
00:21:51,292 --> 00:21:54,000
not say, "Wait a minute.
This is just impractical.
497
00:21:54,083 --> 00:21:55,834
I, I can't believe this."
498
00:21:55,918 --> 00:21:58,709
To me was a function of
they were a cult.
499
00:21:58,792 --> 00:22:02,125
They were sold a bill of goods
in the sense of their beliefs.
500
00:22:02,209 --> 00:22:04,792
Now, that doesn't make
them bad people per se.
501
00:22:04,876 --> 00:22:08,876
It just means that
they were basing
502
00:22:08,959 --> 00:22:12,709
their behavior on things
that, at base, to me,
503
00:22:12,792 --> 00:22:15,417
just didn't make sense.
504
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:18,417
And the rub came because
they were really committed
505
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:21,459
to those things, and they
were willing to die for them.
506
00:22:23,125 --> 00:22:25,250
Narrator:
Debbie Africa,
wearing the dungarees,
507
00:22:25,334 --> 00:22:27,876
is four months pregnant,
but she can still participate
508
00:22:27,959 --> 00:22:30,250
in the regular activity
that make up the bulk
509
00:22:30,334 --> 00:22:31,709
of the MOVE members' day.
510
00:22:31,792 --> 00:22:33,751
When the time comes for
the baby to be born,
511
00:22:33,834 --> 00:22:35,709
it will come wherever
she happens to be,
512
00:22:35,792 --> 00:22:39,000
without a doctor in attendance,
certainly not in a hospital.
513
00:22:39,083 --> 00:22:42,167
♪ ♪
514
00:22:49,125 --> 00:22:51,751
Mike Africa Jr.:
Once the whole thing
of who is my mother,
515
00:22:51,834 --> 00:22:54,626
that question came
into my mind, and...
516
00:22:55,834 --> 00:22:57,918
I think at that point,
my grandmother
517
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,125
probably felt like
she had to start
518
00:23:00,209 --> 00:23:01,626
inserting some information.
519
00:23:01,709 --> 00:23:05,334
So, you know, she started
talking about it a little bit.
520
00:23:06,542 --> 00:23:08,834
I was born in
House of Correction
521
00:23:08,918 --> 00:23:11,292
in Philadelphia on State Road.
522
00:23:15,417 --> 00:23:18,042
(keys jingling)
523
00:23:18,667 --> 00:23:19,959
(creaking)
524
00:23:24,292 --> 00:23:25,584
So, my mother
525
00:23:25,667 --> 00:23:28,334
when she was arrested
on August 8th, 1978,
526
00:23:28,417 --> 00:23:31,667
she was almost due
to give birth to me.
527
00:23:33,542 --> 00:23:36,792
And so when she did
give birth to me,
528
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,083
it was in a prison cell.
529
00:23:40,167 --> 00:23:43,250
♪ ♪
530
00:23:47,918 --> 00:23:49,834
Right here.
531
00:23:51,959 --> 00:23:54,792
-So this would've
been her cell?
-Guard: Yep.
532
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,125
Nothin' but time.
533
00:24:19,542 --> 00:24:23,876
The first time I actually saw
her was on a prison trip.
534
00:24:23,959 --> 00:24:26,792
And my grandmother
took me to see her.
535
00:24:26,876 --> 00:24:29,042
You know,
I remember thinking like,
536
00:24:29,125 --> 00:24:32,042
hoping that-- (laughing)
537
00:24:32,125 --> 00:24:34,709
I remember hoping
that she looked
538
00:24:34,792 --> 00:24:37,542
the way that I would
want her to look.
539
00:24:37,626 --> 00:24:39,709
When you go into the prison
and you're at the prison,
540
00:24:39,792 --> 00:24:43,667
you see the different people
coming out of the,
out of the prison
541
00:24:43,751 --> 00:24:45,375
into the visiting room.
542
00:24:45,459 --> 00:24:47,125
And the way it was
set up was like
543
00:24:47,209 --> 00:24:49,417
a set of steps that went up
544
00:24:50,542 --> 00:24:53,292
like maybe six or seven steps
545
00:24:53,375 --> 00:24:55,000
that they have to come down
546
00:24:55,083 --> 00:24:57,792
to come into the visiting room.
547
00:24:57,876 --> 00:25:00,459
And when she...
(laughs) when--
548
00:25:00,542 --> 00:25:03,083
before she came
out of that area,
549
00:25:03,167 --> 00:25:06,334
there was all these other women
that came out before her, right?
550
00:25:06,417 --> 00:25:09,250
Different women just coming out.
Black ones, white ones,
551
00:25:09,334 --> 00:25:12,584
tall ones, shorter ones.
Just different people.
552
00:25:12,667 --> 00:25:15,417
I remember looking at them
thinking, that ain't her.
553
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:18,334
And then when she came out,
I remember thinking,
554
00:25:18,417 --> 00:25:21,292
"I hope that's her.
I hope that's her."
555
00:25:21,375 --> 00:25:24,417
♪ ♪
556
00:25:28,292 --> 00:25:30,250
Rizzo:
MOVE is nothing special.
557
00:25:30,334 --> 00:25:32,918
They've gotten away with it
because we're compassionate
558
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,083
and we don't wanna
hurt innocent people,
559
00:25:35,167 --> 00:25:36,876
particularly the children.
560
00:25:36,959 --> 00:25:39,375
We'll do everything we can to
561
00:25:39,459 --> 00:25:41,459
come to a peaceful ending.
562
00:25:41,542 --> 00:25:45,500
But I also wanna tell you,
as an old retired police chief,
563
00:25:45,584 --> 00:25:49,083
that if they fire at
any of our police,
564
00:25:49,167 --> 00:25:50,792
that we will retaliate in kind,
565
00:25:50,876 --> 00:25:52,542
and I can assure you,
they're going to lose.
566
00:25:52,626 --> 00:25:55,292
Craig McCoy:
The city's tabloid, the
"Philadelphia Daily News,"
567
00:25:55,375 --> 00:25:57,083
played a role in this
too because they ran
568
00:25:57,167 --> 00:26:00,209
a sort of investigative
story reporting
569
00:26:00,292 --> 00:26:02,959
all the overtime that had been
accumulated as the police
570
00:26:03,042 --> 00:26:04,918
staked out the house
and watched it.
571
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,000
The tone of the "Daily News"
story was that this was a...
572
00:26:09,417 --> 00:26:12,083
a mistake on the part of
the Rizzo administration,
573
00:26:12,167 --> 00:26:14,209
that they had not taken action.
574
00:26:14,292 --> 00:26:16,751
But it had an impact,
and I think
575
00:26:16,834 --> 00:26:19,626
spurred
the confrontation onward.
576
00:26:19,709 --> 00:26:21,167
Rizzo:
We're gonna put
the blockade in.
577
00:26:21,250 --> 00:26:24,542
We're gonna shut off
all utilities.
578
00:26:24,626 --> 00:26:27,209
They'll be not
a fly gets through.
579
00:26:27,292 --> 00:26:28,918
Reporter:
The Pennsylvania
Supreme Court has upheld
580
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,918
Philadelphia's request to
blockade MOVE's headquarters.
581
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,542
This ends many weeks of legal
maneuvering and allows the city
582
00:26:34,626 --> 00:26:37,334
to starve the group out of
its West Philadelphia house.
583
00:26:37,417 --> 00:26:40,626
For the last six hours or so
since about 6:00 this morning,
584
00:26:40,709 --> 00:26:43,292
MOVE has been cut off
from the rest of the city
585
00:26:43,375 --> 00:26:46,417
by this not-so-familiar,
but I guess it's going to be,
586
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:49,292
police barricade,
A wooden barricade set up here
587
00:26:49,375 --> 00:26:52,292
to make sure that no water,
no food, no nothing
588
00:26:52,375 --> 00:26:53,918
got through to the MOVE members.
589
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,918
So I guess at this point,
MOVE's back-to-nature philosophy
590
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,876
is really being put to a test.
591
00:26:58,959 --> 00:27:01,709
They're down to the bare
minimum, which is survival.
592
00:27:01,792 --> 00:27:04,918
Then, on the other hand,
there's no telling how long
593
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,167
they can stay inside
that headquarters.
594
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:09,417
♪ ♪
595
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:10,626
Reporter:
I heard a little while ago
596
00:27:10,709 --> 00:27:12,709
three people come up
to the barricade,
597
00:27:12,792 --> 00:27:14,083
said they lived inside.
598
00:27:14,167 --> 00:27:16,125
The police said,
"Where's your identification?"
599
00:27:16,209 --> 00:27:18,667
They said, "We don't
have any identification."
600
00:27:18,751 --> 00:27:21,083
The police said,
"You're not getting in."
601
00:27:21,167 --> 00:27:24,209
Woman:
"1984" has arrived.
I now know what it's like
602
00:27:24,292 --> 00:27:27,209
to be a white person
in South Africa.
603
00:27:27,292 --> 00:27:28,792
I am surrounded by police.
604
00:27:28,876 --> 00:27:31,250
My friend, Sister Betty
over here, who's a friend,
605
00:27:31,334 --> 00:27:34,292
is not being allowed
into the blockade.
606
00:27:34,375 --> 00:27:37,250
In order to get into your home,
607
00:27:37,334 --> 00:27:39,542
you had to show ID.
608
00:27:39,626 --> 00:27:42,042
And on me, a lot of times,
I had my ID,
609
00:27:42,125 --> 00:27:43,792
I couldn't get in.
My children couldn't get in.
610
00:27:43,876 --> 00:27:46,500
They were saying they
was putting a blockade up
611
00:27:46,584 --> 00:27:48,500
to blockade MOVE in.
612
00:27:48,584 --> 00:27:51,918
But it was actually to
blockade the people out.
613
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,876
Woman:
There is no way that
a resolution can occur
614
00:27:54,959 --> 00:27:56,667
with constant
police harassment,
615
00:27:56,751 --> 00:27:58,918
with 400 police in
the area, with SWAT teams
616
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,792
sitting up with
high-powered rifles,
looking down on MOVE,
617
00:28:02,876 --> 00:28:05,584
and with the police
currently antagonizing MOVE
618
00:28:05,667 --> 00:28:08,125
by throwing various
kinds of objects at them.
619
00:28:08,209 --> 00:28:11,125
Okay, Diane, thank you. Jack,
there is the possibility...
620
00:28:11,209 --> 00:28:13,918
Pam Africa:
The cops would throw
cherry pickers,
621
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,042
and throw rocks,
622
00:28:16,125 --> 00:28:19,209
and what this was doing
for me and a lot of people,
623
00:28:19,292 --> 00:28:22,125
the belief that we had
in this government,
624
00:28:22,209 --> 00:28:23,542
was slowly leaving.
625
00:28:23,626 --> 00:28:26,751
People wanted to come and do
what they could about MOVE,
626
00:28:26,834 --> 00:28:29,542
and I wound up opening my
house for these meetings.
627
00:28:29,626 --> 00:28:33,042
My house had white folks in it,
it had Asian folks in it,
628
00:28:33,125 --> 00:28:35,584
it had Black folks in it,
nationalists. I mean,
629
00:28:35,667 --> 00:28:37,751
it had some of
everybody in there.
630
00:28:37,834 --> 00:28:39,959
They were all coming together
631
00:28:40,042 --> 00:28:41,626
to see what they
could do to help.
632
00:28:41,709 --> 00:28:44,292
We wound up having
meetings at a church,
633
00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:47,542
I think it's 35th and Baring
or 36th and Baring.
634
00:28:47,626 --> 00:28:49,834
Reporter:
About 150 people
called for mobilizing
635
00:28:49,918 --> 00:28:52,167
against the city's blockade
of the MOVE headquarters
636
00:28:52,250 --> 00:28:54,751
in Powelton Village.
Most of those at the church
637
00:28:54,834 --> 00:28:56,584
were against the city's action.
638
00:28:56,667 --> 00:28:58,918
Palmer:
People were divided,
pro and con.
639
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,334
I knew I had to use
640
00:29:00,417 --> 00:29:02,709
a lot of the tactics
and strategies we'd used
641
00:29:02,792 --> 00:29:05,959
historically,
since '50s and '60s,
642
00:29:06,042 --> 00:29:08,000
to, um, to engage people.
643
00:29:08,083 --> 00:29:11,250
We literally made
a human chain, two-deep,
644
00:29:11,334 --> 00:29:14,042
and it was, it was--
it resonated.
645
00:29:14,125 --> 00:29:16,542
And it got people's attention.
646
00:29:16,626 --> 00:29:19,000
I believe the mayor's trying
to deny basic human rights
647
00:29:19,083 --> 00:29:20,834
and constitutional
rights to MOVE.
648
00:29:20,918 --> 00:29:23,167
He's starving people.
I don't believe
that's happening
649
00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:24,792
in the United States of America.
650
00:29:24,876 --> 00:29:26,751
Caparella:
People went nuts
651
00:29:26,834 --> 00:29:30,042
because they wanted this
confrontation to end.
652
00:29:30,125 --> 00:29:32,459
So there was this attempt
653
00:29:32,542 --> 00:29:35,292
to try to negotiate
an end to it.
654
00:29:35,375 --> 00:29:36,876
I mean,
the city is really trying.
655
00:29:36,959 --> 00:29:39,417
The mayor has bent backwards
as far as making sure
656
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:41,959
a whole humanitarian
approach is given.
657
00:29:42,042 --> 00:29:45,292
And it basically rests
with them at this time.
658
00:29:45,375 --> 00:29:47,959
Carlos:
The first demand
was that our people
659
00:29:48,042 --> 00:29:50,667
that are in state
prison be released,
660
00:29:50,751 --> 00:29:52,459
unconditionally,
661
00:29:52,542 --> 00:29:55,459
and brought in a helicopter
with Jimmy Carter.
662
00:29:55,542 --> 00:29:57,751
Joel Todd:
MOVE's position was we
want these three released
663
00:29:57,834 --> 00:30:00,042
from prison.
The city's position was
well, you gotta clean up
664
00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:01,876
the house or you gotta leave.
It's one or the other.
665
00:30:01,959 --> 00:30:03,500
They kept talking
past each other,
666
00:30:03,584 --> 00:30:05,500
and MOVE never did anything
667
00:30:05,584 --> 00:30:07,626
to clean up the house
that I was aware of.
668
00:30:07,709 --> 00:30:09,334
Carlos:
In the first month,
669
00:30:09,417 --> 00:30:11,709
our water supply did run out.
670
00:30:11,792 --> 00:30:13,709
And we was telling them
671
00:30:13,792 --> 00:30:16,334
that we have no more food
to feed our babies.
672
00:30:16,417 --> 00:30:18,542
Reporter:
The food is only for the nursing
mothers and the babies?
673
00:30:18,626 --> 00:30:20,459
-Fred DiBona Jr.: That's right.
-Reporter: Not for the adults?
674
00:30:20,542 --> 00:30:24,250
-DiBona: No, sir.
-Reporter: But the adults
may consume it.
675
00:30:24,334 --> 00:30:25,834
That's their problem.
If they wanna deprive
676
00:30:25,918 --> 00:30:27,876
their children of food,
that's for them to decide.
677
00:30:27,959 --> 00:30:31,042
♪ ♪
678
00:30:37,792 --> 00:30:39,334
John Penrose:
The city can't do nothing
679
00:30:39,417 --> 00:30:42,250
in the face of
some of the things
680
00:30:42,334 --> 00:30:43,709
that were going on
in that house.
681
00:30:43,792 --> 00:30:46,000
There were public health issues.
682
00:30:46,083 --> 00:30:50,292
There was a lot of
other sanitation stuff, uh.
683
00:30:50,375 --> 00:30:53,250
You couldn't do nothing,
but you don't do what
684
00:30:53,334 --> 00:30:55,459
the Philadelphia PD did.
685
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,584
That was crazy.
686
00:31:03,792 --> 00:31:05,834
We had these things.
When I was a kid,
687
00:31:05,918 --> 00:31:08,125
me and my dad,
every so often,
688
00:31:08,209 --> 00:31:10,292
these ideas that we had about
what was gonna happen when
689
00:31:10,375 --> 00:31:14,417
they came home
would change, right?
So, when I was like...
690
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:16,667
10 years old,
it was always this thing of
691
00:31:16,751 --> 00:31:18,626
he's gonna teach me
how to play basketball.
692
00:31:18,709 --> 00:31:19,959
He's gonna teach me
how to play football.
693
00:31:20,042 --> 00:31:21,959
He's gonna teach me these,
you know, these things that
694
00:31:22,042 --> 00:31:24,334
10-year-olds do, right?
From like when
I was a teenager,
695
00:31:24,417 --> 00:31:27,918
mid teenager to-- he's gonna
teach me how to talk to girls,
696
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,876
he's gonna teach me
how to, like, do business
and build-- and help
697
00:31:30,959 --> 00:31:34,250
the organization in that way.
And as time went on,
698
00:31:34,334 --> 00:31:37,125
now it was, okay,
you got kids.
You're 20-something.
699
00:31:37,209 --> 00:31:39,250
Right. You're having kids,
I'm gonna help you
raise your kids,
700
00:31:39,334 --> 00:31:41,417
and when we get home,
we'll help you do this
701
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,459
and we'll do this together.
702
00:31:43,542 --> 00:31:46,000
Into the 30s, it was, we'll
build a business together.
703
00:31:46,083 --> 00:31:48,751
And these things would
change every decade,
704
00:31:48,834 --> 00:31:50,876
you'd get these other stories
705
00:31:50,959 --> 00:31:53,250
that these are
the plans that you have
706
00:31:53,334 --> 00:31:54,876
when this day comes.
707
00:31:54,959 --> 00:31:58,042
And, um, now,
we're into the...
708
00:31:58,125 --> 00:32:00,167
you know, um,
I'll take care--
709
00:32:00,250 --> 00:32:02,167
I will take care of my father.
710
00:32:02,250 --> 00:32:03,876
I will make sure that he has
711
00:32:03,959 --> 00:32:06,375
the things that he needs
to live out his life
712
00:32:06,459 --> 00:32:08,500
happy and stress-free,
713
00:32:08,584 --> 00:32:11,876
and, you know,
this is where that's going.
714
00:32:11,959 --> 00:32:15,626
Within the next 10 years,
it'll probably be something like
715
00:32:15,709 --> 00:32:19,167
I'll make sure he has
a good burial plot.
716
00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:21,876
I'll make sure
he has a good, um,
717
00:32:21,959 --> 00:32:24,542
a good memorial service.
718
00:32:24,626 --> 00:32:26,792
I'll make sure that all
the people that he loved
719
00:32:26,876 --> 00:32:29,667
and that loved him
is at his memorial,
720
00:32:29,751 --> 00:32:32,459
and the people
who, who, who didn't
721
00:32:32,542 --> 00:32:34,792
will not get an invitation
'cause I'll tell you one thing
722
00:32:34,876 --> 00:32:37,125
about my father.
If I know anything about him,
723
00:32:37,209 --> 00:32:39,751
I know he do not
mess with people
724
00:32:39,834 --> 00:32:42,250
who talk a bunch of shit
and do nothing.
725
00:32:43,417 --> 00:32:45,959
But that's where we're going.
726
00:32:46,042 --> 00:32:49,542
I mean, what can I say about,
what can I do about that?
727
00:32:49,626 --> 00:32:52,417
Except just keep on pushing.
728
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:54,709
(static)
729
00:32:54,792 --> 00:32:57,542
(indistinct chatter)
730
00:32:57,626 --> 00:33:00,709
♪ ♪
731
00:33:09,083 --> 00:33:12,209
(inaudible)
732
00:33:13,459 --> 00:33:15,334
Palmer:
We got people who were strong,
733
00:33:15,417 --> 00:33:18,000
not just local grassroots
everyday people,
734
00:33:18,083 --> 00:33:19,918
but we built an army
735
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,751
of people in every level.
736
00:33:21,834 --> 00:33:25,125
I mean, the most powerful
people in business.
737
00:33:25,209 --> 00:33:27,417
The most powerful
people in the pulpit,
738
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:29,500
in education and law.
739
00:33:29,584 --> 00:33:32,834
I pulled in Oscar Gaskins,
who I law clerked for.
740
00:33:32,918 --> 00:33:35,083
People who might not
have an interest in MOVE,
741
00:33:35,167 --> 00:33:37,083
but might have an interest in
742
00:33:37,167 --> 00:33:38,959
the constitutional
questions, right?
743
00:33:39,042 --> 00:33:42,083
And all of this really allowed
us to give us leverage.
744
00:33:42,167 --> 00:33:45,375
The mayor couldn't go
against the forces of, like,
745
00:33:45,459 --> 00:33:49,209
you know, the, the, the large
business interests
746
00:33:49,292 --> 00:33:51,125
that were here in
the city of Philadelphia,
747
00:33:51,209 --> 00:33:53,918
and the large legal
institutions, etc.
748
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,459
Carlos Africa:
Every week,
749
00:33:55,542 --> 00:33:58,209
the support from
the people outside,
750
00:33:58,292 --> 00:33:59,626
all over the world,
751
00:33:59,709 --> 00:34:04,709
and in Philadelphia
intensified
and got so, so big
752
00:34:04,792 --> 00:34:07,125
that, eventually,
753
00:34:07,209 --> 00:34:10,042
the city officials came
to us and asked us
754
00:34:10,125 --> 00:34:12,000
what do we want
755
00:34:12,083 --> 00:34:14,125
to end this confrontation.
756
00:34:14,209 --> 00:34:17,083
And we told them. We said,
"Y'all have our demands.
757
00:34:17,167 --> 00:34:19,876
That our people be
released unconditionally."
758
00:34:19,959 --> 00:34:22,792
All this time,
Rizzo had been saying
759
00:34:22,876 --> 00:34:25,834
that MOVE had
underground tunnels.
760
00:34:25,918 --> 00:34:27,167
They had bombs.
761
00:34:27,250 --> 00:34:29,626
They had all this
high-powered weaponry.
762
00:34:29,709 --> 00:34:32,167
That is what's happening,
and it's happening right now.
763
00:34:32,250 --> 00:34:33,626
Police are inside
MOVE headquarters
764
00:34:33,709 --> 00:34:36,834
in West Philadelphia conducting
an intensive search for weapons.
765
00:34:36,918 --> 00:34:39,792
Don Fair and
the Live Instant Eye
are standing by at the scene
766
00:34:39,876 --> 00:34:41,459
and Don, how is
that search going?
767
00:34:41,542 --> 00:34:42,751
The Philadelphia
Police Department
768
00:34:42,834 --> 00:34:45,125
are going inch by inch
through the MOVE compound
769
00:34:45,209 --> 00:34:47,500
with metal detectors
and with other devices
770
00:34:47,584 --> 00:34:50,167
trying to find any weapons
that might still be inside.
771
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:52,042
Reporter:
What does the mood
seem to be
772
00:34:52,125 --> 00:34:54,000
down there at MOVE
headquarters right now?
773
00:34:54,083 --> 00:34:56,500
Don Fair: The MOVE members
who are on the porch
seemed to be a little testy,
774
00:34:56,584 --> 00:34:57,959
seemed to be
a little bit upset.
775
00:34:58,042 --> 00:35:01,375
They seemed to be apprehensive
that maybe the police will find
776
00:35:01,459 --> 00:35:04,542
some more weapons.
That's the mood down there,
and right now,
777
00:35:04,626 --> 00:35:06,584
we're just waiting to see
what they come up with.
778
00:35:06,667 --> 00:35:08,375
Well, the search
wound up showing
779
00:35:08,459 --> 00:35:11,375
that there was no
real illegal weapons.
780
00:35:11,459 --> 00:35:13,417
And what they found
in there were weapons
781
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:15,542
that, for the most part,
were damaged,
782
00:35:15,626 --> 00:35:17,709
firing pins not--
So, it was...
783
00:35:17,792 --> 00:35:21,542
It really was a ruse
in many ways, right?
784
00:35:21,626 --> 00:35:22,626
And a clever one.
785
00:35:22,709 --> 00:35:25,876
There was no tunnels.
There was no bombs.
786
00:35:25,959 --> 00:35:28,834
There was nothing but
the explosive power
787
00:35:28,918 --> 00:35:31,542
of John Africa that had radiated
788
00:35:31,626 --> 00:35:34,959
around the world
for people to see
789
00:35:35,042 --> 00:35:38,125
who MOVE is and who they are.
790
00:35:38,209 --> 00:35:39,584
Do you recognize these people
791
00:35:39,667 --> 00:35:41,626
and the things that they're
holding in their hands?
792
00:35:41,709 --> 00:35:44,584
Sims:
Exactly, appear to be weapons,
and I don't want anyone
793
00:35:44,667 --> 00:35:47,042
to think that I'm insulting
their intelligence.
794
00:35:47,125 --> 00:35:48,417
You know, you may say
795
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:52,125
she's got to think we're crazy.
There they are standing there
796
00:35:52,209 --> 00:35:54,167
with weapons,
and she's saying that
797
00:35:54,250 --> 00:35:55,584
they are not weapons,
798
00:35:55,667 --> 00:35:58,626
and I base that on the fact that
799
00:35:58,709 --> 00:36:01,167
they searched
309 and 307.
800
00:36:01,250 --> 00:36:03,751
They went up and down
the walls and everywhere,
801
00:36:03,834 --> 00:36:05,167
from the cellar to the roof,
802
00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:06,834
but what they brought out
803
00:36:06,918 --> 00:36:10,876
were inoperable weapons.
804
00:36:10,959 --> 00:36:14,584
Carlos Africa:
They met our demands except...
805
00:36:14,667 --> 00:36:17,250
that Jimmy Carter didn't
come in a helicopter.
806
00:36:17,334 --> 00:36:20,626
(clapping, cheering)
807
00:36:20,709 --> 00:36:23,125
Palmer:
We had also knocked out
808
00:36:23,209 --> 00:36:27,542
an agreement that there'd
be a 90-day truce.
809
00:36:27,626 --> 00:36:31,125
We wanna disengage
these wires and fences.
810
00:36:31,209 --> 00:36:33,209
That's coming down, right?
811
00:36:33,292 --> 00:36:37,375
So for 90 days,
there was a quiet, right?
812
00:36:37,459 --> 00:36:41,500
-Reporter: Are you glad
that this process is over?
-Uh...
813
00:36:41,584 --> 00:36:43,709
It's not over really.
I'm saying, like, um,
814
00:36:43,792 --> 00:36:46,667
until the city stop
harassing MOVE members,
815
00:36:46,751 --> 00:36:49,584
until like, uh, they stop
the continuing harassment,
816
00:36:49,667 --> 00:36:51,334
then it'll never be over.
817
00:36:51,417 --> 00:36:52,834
And then what happened was
818
00:36:52,918 --> 00:36:55,292
City Solicitor
Sheldon Albert said,
819
00:36:55,375 --> 00:36:58,083
and I think this really
triggered it and rekindled it,
820
00:36:58,167 --> 00:36:59,918
"On the 91st day,
821
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,792
we intend to tear down
those two buildings."
822
00:37:03,876 --> 00:37:07,375
Well, when he said that,
everything came apart.
823
00:37:07,459 --> 00:37:10,959
The community was
enjoying a solid peace.
824
00:37:11,042 --> 00:37:12,918
You filed for
an injunction?
825
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,083
Palmer:
The injunction is only to make
sure that house stays intact,
826
00:37:16,167 --> 00:37:19,000
to prevent anybody from
touching one brick.
827
00:37:19,083 --> 00:37:20,918
Washington:
From the starvation blockade,
828
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,250
there was some agreements,
some of them written,
829
00:37:23,334 --> 00:37:25,709
some of them
allegedly understood.
830
00:37:25,792 --> 00:37:28,459
So, one of them was that
831
00:37:28,542 --> 00:37:31,375
MOVE would be allowed
to stay in that house
832
00:37:31,459 --> 00:37:34,459
until they were
able to move out.
833
00:37:34,542 --> 00:37:37,667
Rizzo and his crew
contended that
834
00:37:37,751 --> 00:37:40,918
they were supposed to be out
of the house on August the 1st.
835
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,167
That really wasn't a clear
understanding from everybody,
836
00:37:44,250 --> 00:37:48,083
and that August 1st
date of getting out
837
00:37:48,167 --> 00:37:50,000
again led to Rizzo
838
00:37:50,083 --> 00:37:51,876
to do some extralegal actions.
839
00:37:51,959 --> 00:37:54,626
Sue Africa:
And these restrictions
were put on us by DiBona,
840
00:37:54,709 --> 00:37:57,167
not by the judges
that released us.
841
00:37:57,250 --> 00:37:59,459
And we're saying this
is another reason why
842
00:37:59,542 --> 00:38:01,334
we feel certain that
DiBona is trying
843
00:38:01,417 --> 00:38:03,042
to instigate another
confrontation.
844
00:38:03,125 --> 00:38:06,042
Anything other than terms
of the original agreement
845
00:38:06,125 --> 00:38:08,125
will not be abided by
by MOVE members.
846
00:38:08,209 --> 00:38:10,459
Sue Africa:
We said that we
had to have time
847
00:38:10,542 --> 00:38:12,292
to find homes for our animals
848
00:38:12,375 --> 00:38:15,375
because we had
a lot of animals,
and they gave us 90 days
849
00:38:15,459 --> 00:38:17,209
at first, and they...
850
00:38:17,292 --> 00:38:19,375
We couldn't just leave our
animals there, so we said
851
00:38:19,459 --> 00:38:22,918
we want an extension. They
would not give us an extension,
852
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,876
which is what led
to them coming out.
853
00:38:25,959 --> 00:38:27,542
I know good and well
that Frank Rizzo,
854
00:38:27,626 --> 00:38:29,417
if he didn't sign off on it,
it wouldn't have happened.
855
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:32,334
So we were really negotiating
with Frank Rizzo, Mayor Rizzo,
856
00:38:32,417 --> 00:38:35,709
behind the scenes using
these intermediaries.
857
00:38:35,792 --> 00:38:38,167
My dad set tough rules,
858
00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,334
and you played the game by
his rules or you didn't play.
859
00:38:41,417 --> 00:38:44,709
There was no free
or open forum, you know.
860
00:38:44,792 --> 00:38:46,167
No. Pop is not gonna...
861
00:38:46,250 --> 00:38:49,042
Boom, you got
knocked down,
you know, and...
862
00:38:49,626 --> 00:38:50,667
Good system.
863
00:38:50,751 --> 00:38:53,375
He was easily agitated,
much like Trump is.
864
00:38:53,459 --> 00:38:55,709
He's easily agitated.
People kinda know
865
00:38:55,792 --> 00:38:59,000
how to get to him, what
buttons to push, right?
866
00:38:59,083 --> 00:39:01,000
So, so just escalate
more and more.
867
00:39:01,083 --> 00:39:03,125
-Woman: We saying
we getting rid of Rizzo.
-Man: That's right.
868
00:39:03,209 --> 00:39:05,083
We saying we tired
of that man coming
869
00:39:05,167 --> 00:39:07,959
and taking his racism
and spewing it on Blacks.
870
00:39:08,042 --> 00:39:09,751
We saying we know
that he's racist.
871
00:39:09,834 --> 00:39:12,292
He knows that we're right,
and we know we right.
872
00:39:12,375 --> 00:39:15,083
He know it.
He knows we innocent.
He knows we committed.
873
00:39:15,167 --> 00:39:18,125
-He wanna be racist, we got all
Black members inside of here.
-Man: That's right!
874
00:39:18,209 --> 00:39:20,834
We don't have no whites
inside of here.
And we saying the door
875
00:39:20,918 --> 00:39:23,000
is open 'cause we know he
coming down here to kill.
876
00:39:23,083 --> 00:39:25,667
If he come to our front door,
we know he coming in here
877
00:39:25,751 --> 00:39:27,459
with the intentions to kill
'cause we done told him
878
00:39:27,542 --> 00:39:30,709
if he come inside our house,
he gonna murder
everybody in here.
879
00:39:30,792 --> 00:39:33,083
Not like we wanna die,
but rather than have a man
880
00:39:33,167 --> 00:39:36,709
like Rizzo dictate our lives,
make us unhealthy,
881
00:39:36,792 --> 00:39:39,959
make us sick and kill
any more of our babies,
we'd rather be dead.
882
00:39:40,042 --> 00:39:44,000
'Cause to be free is not to be
so-called living on this level.
883
00:39:44,083 --> 00:39:46,500
It's to be free of
the oppressive power
884
00:39:46,584 --> 00:39:49,375
of a maniac like Rizzo.
885
00:39:49,459 --> 00:39:51,918
What they need is a good bath
and some soap and water
886
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,667
-in their mouth,
and I can tell you that...
-(applause)
887
00:39:57,167 --> 00:39:59,167
unequivocally, Hank,
888
00:39:59,250 --> 00:40:02,209
they're going to go
either easy or hard way.
889
00:40:02,292 --> 00:40:03,959
That can be standing up
or laying down.
890
00:40:04,042 --> 00:40:05,918
Caparella:
Every night on TV, Rizzo was
891
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,250
taunting them and they
were taunting Rizzo.
892
00:40:09,334 --> 00:40:10,834
The problem was...
893
00:40:10,918 --> 00:40:14,000
♪ ♪
894
00:40:17,167 --> 00:40:18,959
the cops had more firepower.
895
00:40:19,042 --> 00:40:22,209
Official:
And now this second
day of August, 1978,
896
00:40:22,292 --> 00:40:25,167
upon consideration
of the then petition
897
00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:27,792
and accompanying affidavits
and upon mention
898
00:40:27,876 --> 00:40:30,209
of Sheldon A. Albert,
City Solicitor,
899
00:40:30,292 --> 00:40:33,000
attorney for the plaintiff
with petitioner,
900
00:40:33,083 --> 00:40:35,500
a rule is hereby granted upon
901
00:40:35,584 --> 00:40:38,417
Janet Holloway, Consuela Dotson,
902
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:40,083
Janine Africa,
903
00:40:40,167 --> 00:40:42,709
-Charles Sims...
-Delbert Africa: Talking
about legalized murder!
904
00:40:42,792 --> 00:40:46,167
-Every time you civilized
maniacs murder...
-Merle Austin,
905
00:40:46,250 --> 00:40:48,584
-...shipped Jews in gas ovens,
-Phillip Smith, Delbert Orr,
906
00:40:48,667 --> 00:40:51,292
-you had legal papers!
-Carlos Perez,
Debbie Zelda Sims,
907
00:40:51,375 --> 00:40:53,334
-In the Korean War...
-Michael Davis,
908
00:40:53,417 --> 00:40:56,792
Raymond Chester,
Robert Moses...
909
00:40:56,876 --> 00:40:59,959
Rizzo:
...at 12:01 AM,
the police will be in there
910
00:41:00,042 --> 00:41:02,250
to drag them out by
the backs of their necks.
911
00:41:02,334 --> 00:41:04,876
There will be
a confrontation this time.
There'll be no barricade.
912
00:41:04,959 --> 00:41:07,709
I don't know.
It's up to them whether--
No barricades, Mike.
913
00:41:07,792 --> 00:41:12,083
They're going to be taken
by force if they resist.
914
00:41:12,167 --> 00:41:13,500
No question about that.
915
00:41:13,584 --> 00:41:16,375
-Children or not.
-(indistinct chatter)
916
00:41:16,459 --> 00:41:18,709
Reporter:
Do you feel that MOVE has
been treated fairly in this?
917
00:41:18,792 --> 00:41:20,167
Oscar Gaskins:
Well, I think that they've
918
00:41:20,250 --> 00:41:21,542
been treated
particularly unfairly
919
00:41:21,626 --> 00:41:24,042
in the sense that they
are now on $50,000 bail,
920
00:41:24,125 --> 00:41:26,500
and wherever they may be
found in and around the city,
921
00:41:26,584 --> 00:41:28,459
they're going to be arrested.
922
00:41:28,542 --> 00:41:31,000
The same kind of thing that
had happened to them before
923
00:41:31,083 --> 00:41:33,709
when they got arrested is going
to happen to them this time,
924
00:41:33,792 --> 00:41:36,500
and I think that it was
totally unnecessary.
925
00:41:36,584 --> 00:41:38,417
Ed Rendell:
The press would go
out to the house
926
00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:41,167
with microphones and cameras,
and the MOVE members,
927
00:41:41,250 --> 00:41:43,709
every other word
was the F-bomb.
928
00:41:43,792 --> 00:41:46,417
They were so aggressive
929
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,626
and so violent and so angry.
930
00:41:49,709 --> 00:41:51,751
Nobody sided with them.
931
00:41:51,834 --> 00:41:54,751
That's why you say...
932
00:41:54,834 --> 00:41:58,542
every event takes place in
the context of its time.
933
00:41:58,626 --> 00:42:01,417
Had that happened today,
934
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:03,876
people would've gone wild.
935
00:42:03,959 --> 00:42:06,334
There were these two forces.
936
00:42:06,417 --> 00:42:09,626
There was MOVE,
and there was Rizzo.
937
00:42:09,709 --> 00:42:13,042
They were complete opposites,
938
00:42:13,125 --> 00:42:16,334
and whatever you wrote,
you were gonna get flak
939
00:42:16,417 --> 00:42:17,709
from the other side.
940
00:42:17,792 --> 00:42:19,709
Michael Tuck:
If either side felt that
941
00:42:19,792 --> 00:42:21,626
we were doing a superior job,
942
00:42:21,709 --> 00:42:24,542
then in fact, we probably would
not be doing a superior job.
943
00:42:24,626 --> 00:42:26,417
Both sides are down on us.
944
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,626
-Karen Pomer: What are
you trying to accomplish?
-Trying to tell the truth.
945
00:42:29,709 --> 00:42:32,751
Pomer:
I don't think you really ever
put on the media what MOVE
946
00:42:32,834 --> 00:42:34,542
really stands for.
947
00:42:34,626 --> 00:42:38,042
Charles Peruto Jr.:
No one saw any message that
MOVE was trying to convey.
948
00:42:38,125 --> 00:42:40,000
This was a counter-culture
949
00:42:40,083 --> 00:42:42,292
Philadelphia
hadn't seen before.
950
00:42:42,375 --> 00:42:45,125
It's a different time
and it wasn't received well.
951
00:42:45,209 --> 00:42:47,000
Especially by the Blacks.
952
00:42:47,083 --> 00:42:49,167
They thought they
were an embarrassment.
953
00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:51,250
And many of the Blacks
that I talked to
954
00:42:51,334 --> 00:42:55,292
and socialized with and went
to school with and worked with,
955
00:42:55,375 --> 00:42:57,626
they didn't wanna have
anything to do with MOVE.
956
00:42:57,709 --> 00:42:59,542
So if they're not getting
through to the Blacks,
957
00:42:59,626 --> 00:43:01,751
imagine how they're gonna try
to get through to the whites.
958
00:43:01,834 --> 00:43:03,417
Forget about it.
959
00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:06,751
Tuck:
I don't think it's important
what MOVE really stands for.
960
00:43:06,834 --> 00:43:09,834
If the law says you must
be out of this house,
961
00:43:09,918 --> 00:43:12,083
then you must be
out of this house.
962
00:43:12,167 --> 00:43:13,876
Man:
And if the law said
you had to move?
963
00:43:13,959 --> 00:43:15,667
How the hell you gonna spend
your money, your lifetime
964
00:43:15,751 --> 00:43:18,459
worried about owning
and the court gonna get up
and say, "You move"?
965
00:43:18,542 --> 00:43:21,584
I'm telling you that
there are eviction notices
served on people every day.
966
00:43:21,667 --> 00:43:23,125
If you own a home and you
have broken the law--
967
00:43:23,209 --> 00:43:25,000
Y'all gonna get up
and put me out any
kind of way you want?
968
00:43:25,083 --> 00:43:27,167
If you buy a home and you
have broken the law--
969
00:43:27,250 --> 00:43:30,667
-They haven't broken the law.
That's them people's religion.
-Judge says he broke the law.
970
00:43:30,751 --> 00:43:33,292
-Judge tells lies
just like me or you.
-Okay.
971
00:43:33,375 --> 00:43:35,751
Frank Goldstein:
People who became part
of MOVE made certain
972
00:43:35,834 --> 00:43:38,542
personal decisions.
They decided to let
973
00:43:38,626 --> 00:43:40,792
their hair grow into dreadlocks.
974
00:43:40,876 --> 00:43:42,834
They decided to look different.
975
00:43:42,918 --> 00:43:45,542
They decided to spout
different philosophies.
976
00:43:45,626 --> 00:43:49,417
They decided to eat
different foods.
977
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:51,083
They made these decisions.
978
00:43:51,167 --> 00:43:54,209
Chuckie Africa:
We're sayin', we're talkin'
about protecting our family.
979
00:43:54,292 --> 00:43:56,500
We don't give a fuck how
many guns they got, man.
980
00:43:56,584 --> 00:43:58,500
We ain't concerned with no guns.
981
00:43:58,584 --> 00:44:00,250
We are armed with truth.
982
00:44:00,334 --> 00:44:03,042
Ain't no way in the world
a gun is gonna stop truth.
983
00:44:03,125 --> 00:44:05,667
Ain't no way in the world a gun
is gonna stop what's right.
984
00:44:05,751 --> 00:44:07,375
They can't stop life.
I don't give a fuck
985
00:44:07,459 --> 00:44:09,626
-how many people they kill.
-Tuck: When they come in though
986
00:44:09,709 --> 00:44:11,125
and they say they're
going to arrest you,
987
00:44:11,209 --> 00:44:13,250
they start taking you outside,
what do you do in that case?
988
00:44:13,334 --> 00:44:15,000
-We do what's necessary, man.
-Which means what?
989
00:44:15,083 --> 00:44:16,959
-The strategy of John Africa.
-Which means what?
990
00:44:17,042 --> 00:44:19,792
-What's right.
The strategy of John Africa.
-Which means what?
991
00:44:19,876 --> 00:44:22,542
Okay. Do you cite
the strategy of John Africa,
992
00:44:22,626 --> 00:44:25,167
-or do you actually
do something?
-The strategy of John Africa
993
00:44:25,250 --> 00:44:27,292
is the strategy that is right.
994
00:44:27,375 --> 00:44:30,209
The strategy that kept every
last one of us alive last year
995
00:44:30,292 --> 00:44:32,209
during this whole confrontation.
996
00:44:32,292 --> 00:44:35,334
- But they didn't come in
to get you last year.
-They did so.
997
00:44:35,417 --> 00:44:39,083
What do you call a blockade?
What do you call a blockade
998
00:44:39,167 --> 00:44:40,584
where they cut off
our food and water?
999
00:44:40,667 --> 00:44:42,626
What do you call 100 cops
marching down the street
1000
00:44:42,709 --> 00:44:45,959
to our very gate with a little
truck to pull down our fence?
1001
00:44:46,042 --> 00:44:48,584
If that ain't coming in to
get us, what do you call it?
1002
00:44:48,667 --> 00:44:50,834
-Do you have that
around your house?
-What do you think
1003
00:44:50,918 --> 00:44:53,209
they been doing
for seven years, man?
Playing chess with us, man?
1004
00:44:53,292 --> 00:44:56,417
-When my baby was killed, you
call that not coming to get us?
-(overlapping)
1005
00:44:56,500 --> 00:44:58,626
-Chuckie Africa: That's right.
-Tuck: My question is this.
1006
00:44:58,709 --> 00:45:00,834
If a policeman is
standing there,
1007
00:45:00,918 --> 00:45:04,417
-do you fight? Do you cite
John Africa's strategy--
-Policeman is standing here now.
1008
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:07,250
-Janine Africa: I'm saying--
-Tuck: The policeman is not
trying to drag you outside.
1009
00:45:07,334 --> 00:45:09,918
-(people shouting)
-Chuckie Africa:
The policeman is here.
1010
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,709
The policeman been here
for seven motherfucking
years, alright?
1011
00:45:13,792 --> 00:45:16,334
The policeman was here.
The policeman is here
1012
00:45:16,417 --> 00:45:19,500
when my sister's
baby was killed.
The policeman was here
1013
00:45:19,584 --> 00:45:22,209
when we was trampled
and beat in front of
judges in courtrooms.
1014
00:45:22,292 --> 00:45:25,459
The policeman was here
when we was beat in
the goddamn prison, man.
1015
00:45:25,542 --> 00:45:27,292
The policeman was here
1016
00:45:27,375 --> 00:45:29,459
when four of my brothers
was beat unconscious
1017
00:45:29,542 --> 00:45:31,709
and beat the fuck back
to consciousness,
1018
00:45:31,792 --> 00:45:33,209
goddamn it,
in that fucking prison.
1019
00:45:33,292 --> 00:45:35,584
The policeman is here,
been here, and ain't gonna leave
1020
00:45:35,667 --> 00:45:38,459
unless the fucking people
get the fuck rid of them.
1021
00:45:38,542 --> 00:45:42,083
Goldstein:
I guess in a minute and a half,
sometimes sound bites
1022
00:45:42,167 --> 00:45:45,167
are chosen or other things
1023
00:45:45,250 --> 00:45:47,876
are part of stories that
1024
00:45:47,959 --> 00:45:50,876
can help mold what
someone thinks.
1025
00:45:50,959 --> 00:45:52,751
But they made those decisions,
1026
00:45:52,834 --> 00:45:55,250
and I think they were seeking
1027
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,334
some kind of end,
1028
00:45:58,417 --> 00:46:00,709
or evolution,
maybe is a better word,
1029
00:46:00,792 --> 00:46:03,334
of their way of life.
1030
00:46:03,417 --> 00:46:06,125
But they wanted
something out of that.
1031
00:46:07,751 --> 00:46:09,709
And so...
1032
00:46:09,792 --> 00:46:13,834
I think the media was
part of giving it to them.
1033
00:46:13,918 --> 00:46:16,125
Pomer:
It's about 12:20 right now.
1034
00:46:16,209 --> 00:46:18,834
There's approximately
500 or 600 people
1035
00:46:18,918 --> 00:46:20,834
gathered around
MOVE headquarters,
1036
00:46:20,918 --> 00:46:23,959
and it seems apparent
that the police
do not wanna move in
1037
00:46:24,042 --> 00:46:27,667
as long as the media
and all these people
are present.
1038
00:46:27,751 --> 00:46:31,459
It's most likely they'll use
past tactics and come in
1039
00:46:31,542 --> 00:46:35,042
when there are
no camera crews
1040
00:46:35,125 --> 00:46:37,250
and no people present
1041
00:46:37,334 --> 00:46:39,417
to witness what goes on.
1042
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:42,626
(helicopter whirring)
1043
00:46:45,459 --> 00:46:48,584
(truck backing up)
1044
00:46:48,667 --> 00:46:50,375
Murray Dubin:
The street was just jammed.
1045
00:46:50,459 --> 00:46:53,792
It was jammed with reporters
and with neighbors,
1046
00:46:53,876 --> 00:46:55,834
and the beginnings
of barricades,
1047
00:46:55,918 --> 00:46:58,626
and all sorts of police.
1048
00:46:58,709 --> 00:47:01,000
And we just sort of
stood around.
1049
00:47:01,083 --> 00:47:05,000
An "Inquirer"
photographer came.
His name was Bill Steinmetz.
1050
00:47:05,083 --> 00:47:06,667
And then,
1051
00:47:06,751 --> 00:47:09,792
both Bill and I noticed
that the police
1052
00:47:09,876 --> 00:47:14,209
seemed to be moving
the media away,
1053
00:47:14,292 --> 00:47:17,292
ostensibly for
their own safety.
1054
00:47:17,375 --> 00:47:19,500
But if I was a block
to the north,
1055
00:47:19,584 --> 00:47:21,209
I was gonna
have trouble seeing
1056
00:47:21,292 --> 00:47:23,125
what was going on
at the MOVE house.
1057
00:47:23,209 --> 00:47:25,167
It's now probably
3:00 in the morning,
1058
00:47:25,250 --> 00:47:28,709
4:00 in the morning,
and I'm not tired.
1059
00:47:28,792 --> 00:47:30,959
I mean, adrenaline is
racing by this time,
1060
00:47:31,042 --> 00:47:33,125
and I decide
1061
00:47:33,209 --> 00:47:35,209
to start knocking
on doors to see
1062
00:47:35,292 --> 00:47:38,876
if someone will let me in
so I can look out a window.
1063
00:47:38,959 --> 00:47:41,751
They were students in
a second floor apartment,
1064
00:47:41,834 --> 00:47:43,334
and they said sure.
1065
00:47:43,417 --> 00:47:45,709
Bill and I went into the house,
1066
00:47:45,792 --> 00:47:49,042
and found a window
facing Pearl Street,
1067
00:47:49,125 --> 00:47:51,626
and sat on the floor
and looked out the window.
1068
00:47:51,709 --> 00:47:54,334
And Bill got
his camera stuff ready,
1069
00:47:54,417 --> 00:47:55,876
and we just waited
1070
00:47:55,959 --> 00:47:57,584
and waited and waited.
1071
00:47:59,250 --> 00:48:02,667
Palmer:
I got a call from
Louise Africa,
1072
00:48:02,751 --> 00:48:05,626
John Africa's sister,
about 4:00, 5:00
in the morning, and said,
1073
00:48:05,709 --> 00:48:09,292
"Walt, you gotta come down
here because it's crazy.
1074
00:48:09,375 --> 00:48:11,667
"They're bringing in
what looks like tanks.
1075
00:48:11,751 --> 00:48:14,626
They got police everywhere,
helmets, etc."
And I tell her,
1076
00:48:14,709 --> 00:48:18,417
I said, "Louise,
there's nothing else I can do.
I mean, it's, it's--
1077
00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:19,918
"It's over.
These guys have decided
1078
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,167
"they're gonna
go after each other.
They're gonna, you know,
1079
00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:26,626
have a shootout,
so all I can do is let them
have their shootout."
1080
00:48:26,709 --> 00:48:29,500
Devita Johnson:
I had got evicted.
1081
00:48:29,584 --> 00:48:31,500
Had to get out, so I had
nowhere to really go, right?
1082
00:48:31,584 --> 00:48:33,542
So they were like,
"Well you can
come around here, Dee."
1083
00:48:33,626 --> 00:48:36,083
And I remember laying down,
going to lay down with my kids
1084
00:48:36,167 --> 00:48:39,667
in one of the rooms. And, uh,
1085
00:48:39,751 --> 00:48:41,417
and I heard somebody say,
1086
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:44,792
"They out there."
I'm like, they out there?
Who out there?
1087
00:48:45,918 --> 00:48:47,500
By the time we got
down the steps,
1088
00:48:47,584 --> 00:48:49,167
when I got down the steps,
1089
00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:51,125
I looked out the house,
1090
00:48:51,209 --> 00:48:53,209
and it was blocked off.
It was blockaded off
1091
00:48:53,292 --> 00:48:55,667
all the way around.
You could see them
all the way around.
1092
00:48:55,751 --> 00:48:58,667
And I was like, dag!
1093
00:48:58,751 --> 00:49:01,667
What do I do now?
I'm thinking about me.
What I do now?
1094
00:49:01,751 --> 00:49:05,375
Consuela Africa:
There were over 600 cops,
1095
00:49:05,459 --> 00:49:07,584
heavily armed.
1096
00:49:08,375 --> 00:49:11,459
Uzis, hand grenades,
1097
00:49:11,542 --> 00:49:14,584
cherry bombs, bulldozers.
1098
00:49:14,667 --> 00:49:16,584
Everything that you can have
1099
00:49:16,667 --> 00:49:19,709
in wartimes, except the bomb.
1100
00:49:19,792 --> 00:49:22,500
Palmer:
Something told me,
I better get down there.
1101
00:49:22,584 --> 00:49:24,542
-(helicopter whirring)
-It was about 6:00.
1102
00:49:24,626 --> 00:49:27,375
I go down,
and my observation is that
1103
00:49:27,459 --> 00:49:29,125
they were totally surrounded.
1104
00:49:29,209 --> 00:49:30,542
They've let nobody in.
1105
00:49:30,626 --> 00:49:32,751
-Officer 1: Is that video tape?
-Woman: No, no. I...
1106
00:49:32,834 --> 00:49:34,918
-Officer 2: You have
to leave, please.
-Woman: Okay, I understand.
1107
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,542
Palmer:
They did let me in only
because of the past history.
1108
00:49:37,626 --> 00:49:40,250
Commissioner O'Neill
was there, and he wants me
1109
00:49:40,334 --> 00:49:42,834
to use a bullhorn to tell them
to come out and surrender.
1110
00:49:42,918 --> 00:49:45,209
I said,
"You must be out of your mind.
You gotta be kidding me."
1111
00:49:45,292 --> 00:49:46,918
(laughs) I said,
I'm not asking nobody
1112
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,626
to surrender, right?
1113
00:49:48,709 --> 00:49:51,792
(rumbling)
1114
00:49:53,584 --> 00:49:56,500
Man: The bulldozer was to
clear away the fence area,
is that correct?
1115
00:49:56,584 --> 00:49:59,167
Joseph O'Neill:
That is the fence
and the platform, yes, sir.
1116
00:49:59,250 --> 00:50:02,125
After they knocked
the barrier down,
we came up with the RAM.
1117
00:50:02,209 --> 00:50:05,834
-(rumbling)
-(indistinct chatter)
1118
00:50:05,918 --> 00:50:09,667
And having penetrated those
barriers and the windows,
1119
00:50:09,751 --> 00:50:13,209
what action did
the plan call for
and what action was taken?
1120
00:50:13,292 --> 00:50:15,459
Our personnel,
a combination of personnel,
1121
00:50:15,542 --> 00:50:17,209
stakeout, and highway...
1122
00:50:19,626 --> 00:50:21,250
all volunteers, I might add.
1123
00:50:21,334 --> 00:50:23,626
Went into 307
1124
00:50:23,709 --> 00:50:26,292
and went through
the building thoroughly,
1125
00:50:26,375 --> 00:50:30,500
starting top to bottom
or bottom to top.
1126
00:50:30,584 --> 00:50:34,626
We also were able to
get people into 309.
1127
00:50:34,709 --> 00:50:37,292
Palmer:
They had surrounded them,
and, um,
1128
00:50:37,375 --> 00:50:39,209
so then he finally
called me. He said,
1129
00:50:39,292 --> 00:50:42,209
"Walt, go ahead in." Right?
So I went in the house,
1130
00:50:42,292 --> 00:50:44,542
and then I started describing.
I said, "MOVE,
1131
00:50:44,626 --> 00:50:46,459
"you guys
are surrounded, okay?
1132
00:50:46,542 --> 00:50:49,918
"You got six policemen with
sub-Thompson machine guns
1133
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,209
standing directed
at the basement."
And the police say, "Walt!
1134
00:50:53,292 --> 00:50:56,125
Don't, don't, don't say that!
Don't tell them where we are!"
1135
00:50:56,209 --> 00:50:58,250
I said, and you got
them upstairs, right?
1136
00:50:58,334 --> 00:51:00,125
So, they're saying,
1137
00:51:00,209 --> 00:51:02,042
"They can shoot up
through the floor!"
1138
00:51:02,125 --> 00:51:05,959
All I was doing,
I wasn't trying
to give them any data
1139
00:51:06,042 --> 00:51:08,834
except other than
here's the situation
that you're facing.
1140
00:51:08,918 --> 00:51:12,792
So, let me take
the women out, right?
1141
00:51:12,876 --> 00:51:15,125
You guys stay, have the fight,
1142
00:51:15,209 --> 00:51:17,500
and let them go.
"No, no!
1143
00:51:17,584 --> 00:51:20,751
Tell them to get the fuck
out of our building! No, no!"
1144
00:51:20,834 --> 00:51:22,584
They had only one intention,
1145
00:51:22,667 --> 00:51:25,083
and that was to kill
the MOVE organization.
1146
00:51:25,167 --> 00:51:27,709
While we were in our basement,
you could hear them
1147
00:51:27,792 --> 00:51:30,209
drilling a hole in the wall--
1148
00:51:30,292 --> 00:51:32,375
in the floor,
the first floor to the basement
1149
00:51:32,459 --> 00:51:34,000
to gain access to us.
1150
00:51:34,083 --> 00:51:37,709
I could hear them,
while they were doing all this,
1151
00:51:37,792 --> 00:51:38,834
saying,
1152
00:51:38,918 --> 00:51:42,334
"Kill anything that
moves in here. Anything."
1153
00:51:42,417 --> 00:51:44,626
That meant babies, women,
1154
00:51:44,709 --> 00:51:47,626
animals, men. Spare nothing.
1155
00:51:47,709 --> 00:51:50,250
O'Neill:
I can recall being
with Bob Hurst
1156
00:51:50,334 --> 00:51:52,751
alongside him, at the side
window I believe it was,
1157
00:51:52,834 --> 00:51:55,334
and we were looking
down into the place,
1158
00:51:55,417 --> 00:51:58,125
and noted that they had
weapons in the form of rifles.
1159
00:51:58,209 --> 00:52:01,584
I was at the window around
the front of the house...
1160
00:52:02,667 --> 00:52:05,626
um, with several officers,
1161
00:52:05,709 --> 00:52:09,667
think some highway patrol
officers went into the house,
1162
00:52:09,751 --> 00:52:12,167
maybe about 15 or 20 of them,
1163
00:52:12,250 --> 00:52:16,000
and they came out
pretty quick because,
1164
00:52:16,083 --> 00:52:19,042
uh, we heard the shots,
but they were
1165
00:52:19,125 --> 00:52:20,876
shooting up through the floor.
1166
00:52:20,959 --> 00:52:22,876
Johnson:
Something was
shooting from upstairs
1167
00:52:22,959 --> 00:52:24,209
down into the basement
1168
00:52:24,292 --> 00:52:26,209
'cause they had a generator.
You could see something
1169
00:52:26,292 --> 00:52:28,417
plicking off the generator
like sparks.
1170
00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:30,125
Now we see the dogs,
the dogs was over there.
1171
00:52:30,209 --> 00:52:32,834
And I remember me
and Delbert running low,
1172
00:52:32,918 --> 00:52:35,042
not wanting to get hit.
I'm running,
1173
00:52:35,125 --> 00:52:36,834
I'm running right
behind Delbert.
1174
00:52:36,918 --> 00:52:38,959
So, we get the dogs,
1175
00:52:39,042 --> 00:52:42,000
but by that time, I remember
1176
00:52:42,083 --> 00:52:44,125
they stopped shooting.
1177
00:52:44,209 --> 00:52:46,626
Then when they stopped shooting,
1178
00:52:46,709 --> 00:52:48,417
they started hosing,
putting water down.
1179
00:52:48,500 --> 00:52:51,584
(water spraying)
1180
00:52:51,667 --> 00:52:54,751
♪ ♪
1181
00:52:59,042 --> 00:53:01,167
(indistinct)
1182
00:53:08,125 --> 00:53:10,083
Hurst:
And they just poured water.
1183
00:53:10,167 --> 00:53:12,125
It was unbelievable the way
1184
00:53:12,209 --> 00:53:13,542
they poured water
into that home.
1185
00:53:13,626 --> 00:53:15,375
Thought they were gonna
drown them, for God's sake.
1186
00:53:15,459 --> 00:53:18,500
Their smart people
in the upper echelon
1187
00:53:18,584 --> 00:53:22,626
decided to put water
in the basement
1188
00:53:22,709 --> 00:53:25,375
instead of tear gas
because tear gas would
1189
00:53:25,459 --> 00:53:27,542
burn the babies' eyes.
1190
00:53:27,626 --> 00:53:29,876
Well, water will
drown them, too.
1191
00:53:29,959 --> 00:53:32,292
Consuela Africa:
I'm five-foot-six.
1192
00:53:32,375 --> 00:53:35,959
They pumped so much
water into that basement
1193
00:53:36,042 --> 00:53:39,709
through the window
and through the side,
in our houses,
1194
00:53:39,792 --> 00:53:42,459
that I had water up to here.
1195
00:53:42,542 --> 00:53:45,459
I had to literally
hold my son up here,
1196
00:53:45,542 --> 00:53:46,876
so he wouldn't drown.
1197
00:53:46,959 --> 00:53:48,626
Palmer:
I went back one more time.
1198
00:53:48,709 --> 00:53:50,792
If they don't come out,
if they don't wanna come out,
1199
00:53:50,876 --> 00:53:52,792
this is it. I'm outta here.
1200
00:53:52,876 --> 00:53:55,918
And Chuckie Africa and I
got into a cussing match,
right?
1201
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,042
He's cursing at me,
I'm cursing at him, right?
1202
00:53:59,125 --> 00:54:00,584
And the police are
telling me, "stop! Stop!
1203
00:54:00,667 --> 00:54:02,792
You gonna escalate something!
You're not helping!"
1204
00:54:02,876 --> 00:54:05,209
I'm not no professional
negotiator, right?
1205
00:54:05,292 --> 00:54:09,083
I'm just an old former
street gang guy, right?
1206
00:54:09,167 --> 00:54:11,709
So, when I leave out,
1207
00:54:11,792 --> 00:54:13,417
I'm standing
looking at the house
1208
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:15,959
in the middle of the street,
1209
00:54:16,042 --> 00:54:18,250
and I hear what
sounds like a shot.
1210
00:54:20,417 --> 00:54:23,000
(indistinct)
1211
00:54:26,918 --> 00:54:29,125
(loud gunfire)
1212
00:54:29,209 --> 00:54:31,125
(shouting)
1213
00:54:32,584 --> 00:54:35,334
(gunfire)
1214
00:54:36,334 --> 00:54:39,459
(gunfire increases, quickens)
1215
00:54:42,459 --> 00:54:45,584
(rapid gunfire continues)
1216
00:54:53,167 --> 00:54:56,459
-(gunfire stops)
-(engine rumbling)
1217
00:54:57,918 --> 00:55:00,751
♪ ♪
1218
00:55:00,834 --> 00:55:03,334
Two years ago,
the women went up for parole
1219
00:55:03,417 --> 00:55:05,125
at the same time.
1220
00:55:05,209 --> 00:55:08,709
Janet and Janine were denied
pretty much right after
1221
00:55:08,792 --> 00:55:11,834
the, um, the hearing.
1222
00:55:11,918 --> 00:55:14,042
And, my mom,
they had taken awhile.
1223
00:55:14,125 --> 00:55:15,918
A month had passed,
six weeks passed,
1224
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,083
and they still hadn't
come back with an answer.
1225
00:55:18,167 --> 00:55:20,417
The parole agent in the past
1226
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:24,083
had said that she needed
five votes, and she had four.
1227
00:55:24,167 --> 00:55:27,083
So, we were thinking
like they were kinda
1228
00:55:27,167 --> 00:55:30,334
tug-of-warring, you know,
on that fifth voter.
1229
00:55:30,417 --> 00:55:33,125
It was like, okay,
maybe this'll happen now.
1230
00:55:33,209 --> 00:55:34,500
Maybe it'll happen now.
1231
00:55:34,584 --> 00:55:36,417
And they came back neg--
1232
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:38,500
They gave her a two-year hit.
1233
00:55:39,959 --> 00:55:41,792
A two-year hit.
So at that point,
1234
00:55:41,876 --> 00:55:43,876
it was like, okay.
They weren't deciding
1235
00:55:43,959 --> 00:55:45,667
whether or not they
were gonna parole her.
1236
00:55:45,751 --> 00:55:49,042
They were deciding how much
time they were gonna give her.
1237
00:55:49,959 --> 00:55:53,500
♪ ♪
1238
00:55:53,584 --> 00:55:54,918
The parole board expects you
1239
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,751
to answer questions
a certain way.
1240
00:55:56,834 --> 00:55:58,918
They don't ask you,
"Do you feel remorse?"
1241
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,792
They don't say,
"Do you take responsibility
for your crime?"
1242
00:56:02,876 --> 00:56:05,709
They don't say that.
They ask you questions,
1243
00:56:05,792 --> 00:56:08,042
and they, they get--
1244
00:56:08,125 --> 00:56:10,834
What they gather,
what they pick up from you,
1245
00:56:10,918 --> 00:56:13,000
they make their decision,
and that's the kind of response
1246
00:56:13,083 --> 00:56:14,459
they come back with.
1247
00:56:14,542 --> 00:56:16,876
I talked to my mom,
I talked to my dad,
and we're always
1248
00:56:16,959 --> 00:56:19,459
bouncing off each other
with these different ideas,
1249
00:56:19,542 --> 00:56:22,167
and, you know, and so
she said, "You know.
1250
00:56:22,250 --> 00:56:25,000
"They have
classes up here for
1251
00:56:25,083 --> 00:56:27,375
how to re-enter
into society." Right?
1252
00:56:27,459 --> 00:56:29,959
So she was like,
"I'm gonna start taking
some of them classes."
1253
00:56:30,042 --> 00:56:32,792
And I'm like, yeah.
Yeah, definitely. And, and,
1254
00:56:32,876 --> 00:56:35,542
I said, "Dad,
did you think about taking
some of them classes?"
1255
00:56:35,626 --> 00:56:38,542
He said,
"I took every class
that they offered."
1256
00:56:38,626 --> 00:56:40,751
So, my mom was like
1257
00:56:40,834 --> 00:56:43,542
started learning the language
1258
00:56:43,626 --> 00:56:46,167
that they're,
that they're speaking
and what they're looking--
1259
00:56:46,250 --> 00:56:50,167
There are certain words
that they look for, and like...
1260
00:56:50,250 --> 00:56:52,417
she wasn't--
she was never...
1261
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:54,292
happy that the cop was killed.
1262
00:56:54,375 --> 00:56:57,542
-(siren blaring, gunfire)
-(indistinct chatter)
1263
00:56:57,626 --> 00:57:01,209
Officer:
We are under fire. Back up.
Back up by the car. Back up.
1264
00:57:01,292 --> 00:57:04,834
(gunfire)
1265
00:57:04,918 --> 00:57:06,167
Hurst:
I seen his face.
1266
00:57:06,250 --> 00:57:09,000
Chuckie Africa.
He popped out,
1267
00:57:09,083 --> 00:57:11,000
and boom boom boom boom,
went down.
1268
00:57:11,083 --> 00:57:12,709
When the bullets came,
1269
00:57:12,792 --> 00:57:15,292
I literally saw the sparks
1270
00:57:15,375 --> 00:57:17,042
fly past my face.
1271
00:57:17,125 --> 00:57:19,000
Literally saw sparks.
1272
00:57:19,083 --> 00:57:20,667
They had like a blanket
1273
00:57:20,751 --> 00:57:22,751
like over our heads
1274
00:57:22,834 --> 00:57:26,292
where the wood from the beams,
when they were
shooting the bullets,
1275
00:57:26,375 --> 00:57:28,125
where the splinters
wouldn't like
1276
00:57:28,209 --> 00:57:30,626
get in our eyes or in
our head or in our face.
1277
00:57:30,709 --> 00:57:34,083
-(gunfire)
-(siren blaring)
1278
00:57:34,167 --> 00:57:37,292
Dubin:
I was transfixed when
the shots started firing.
1279
00:57:37,375 --> 00:57:40,667
I couldn't sort of
stop looking.
1280
00:57:40,751 --> 00:57:44,209
And Bill Steinmetz
told me to duck.
1281
00:57:44,292 --> 00:57:46,042
So I ducked,
1282
00:57:46,125 --> 00:57:47,876
but then I couldn't see.
1283
00:57:47,959 --> 00:57:50,834
I just hit the ground
'cause I just knew
1284
00:57:50,918 --> 00:57:54,209
some cowboys out here
are gonna just go crazy,
and they did.
1285
00:57:54,292 --> 00:57:57,209
The police with those six
sub-Thompson machine guns
1286
00:57:57,292 --> 00:57:58,626
opened 'em up.
1287
00:57:58,709 --> 00:58:01,542
I mean, totally,
and emptied them.
1288
00:58:01,626 --> 00:58:03,751
The commissioner said,
"Stop! Stop! Stop!"
1289
00:58:03,834 --> 00:58:06,918
-But he couldn't stop them.
-(gunfire)
1290
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,083
♪ ♪
1291
00:58:11,542 --> 00:58:14,334
Hurst:
They pulled me off
1292
00:58:14,417 --> 00:58:17,334
and they come to the tree,
back to the tree,
1293
00:58:17,417 --> 00:58:19,918
where everybody was
in a prone position.
1294
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:25,083
They told me to come out.
I had fired my weapon into the--
1295
00:58:25,167 --> 00:58:27,959
-into the basement.
-Palmer: When
the police stopped,
1296
00:58:28,042 --> 00:58:29,751
then after that,
MOVE started shooting.
1297
00:58:29,834 --> 00:58:32,417
-The shooting started
coming out of the basement.
-(gunfire)
1298
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:34,459
Tom Hesson:
First shot I think was
Bill Stewart got hit
1299
00:58:34,542 --> 00:58:36,042
in the back of the neck.
1300
00:58:36,125 --> 00:58:38,417
And he fell on top
of the fire hose.
1301
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:40,000
Firehose goes up in the air,
1302
00:58:40,083 --> 00:58:42,626
and after that, was just
bedlam coming out of there.
1303
00:58:42,709 --> 00:58:45,876
They just, you know, cops shot.
Well, I seen Jimmy Ramp
1304
00:58:45,959 --> 00:58:48,834
was standing behind
a pole across the street,
1305
00:58:48,918 --> 00:58:51,459
and he kept looking out
from behind the pole.
1306
00:58:51,542 --> 00:58:53,500
I kept hollering for
him to stay back.
1307
00:58:53,584 --> 00:58:56,542
So I turned around again
and he was going down.
1308
00:58:56,626 --> 00:58:59,834
I left the firemen
to run across to him,
1309
00:58:59,918 --> 00:59:02,626
and I got halfway across
Pearl Street and I got hit.
1310
00:59:02,709 --> 00:59:04,459
I got hit in the chest.
1311
00:59:04,542 --> 00:59:07,626
Bullet come through the shield
and through the vest.
1312
00:59:07,709 --> 00:59:10,792
(gunfire)
1313
00:59:11,709 --> 00:59:14,542
(siren wailing)
1314
00:59:14,626 --> 00:59:17,250
Put smoke on Pearl Street
so they couldn't see us.
1315
00:59:17,334 --> 00:59:19,167
They put me in
a van or in the truck
1316
00:59:19,250 --> 00:59:21,709
I was supposed
to be driving, the tank.
1317
00:59:21,792 --> 00:59:24,209
To get me outta here.
They put Jimmy on top of me,
1318
00:59:24,292 --> 00:59:25,626
took us to the other
end of the street,
1319
00:59:25,709 --> 00:59:27,292
and took us to
different hospitals.
1320
00:59:27,375 --> 00:59:29,626
After that, you know,
I don't remember anything.
1321
00:59:29,709 --> 00:59:32,000
-(gunfire, siren blaring)
-(indistinct chatter)
1322
00:59:32,083 --> 00:59:34,918
♪ ♪
1323
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,334
-(gunfire, siren continues)
-(indistinct)
1324
00:59:37,417 --> 00:59:39,417
Man:
What caused them to come out?
1325
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:41,876
O'Neill:
Well, we turned
the water on again,
1326
00:59:41,959 --> 00:59:43,918
then began to pour smoke in.
1327
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,500
I think that was the sequence.
1328
00:59:45,584 --> 00:59:47,125
Johnson:
Once the tear gas hit,
1329
00:59:47,209 --> 00:59:50,500
you couldn't talk,
you couldn't see,
1330
00:59:50,584 --> 00:59:52,375
you couldn't hear nobody,
1331
00:59:52,459 --> 00:59:54,209
and the only thing
I remember was
1332
00:59:54,292 --> 00:59:57,292
I was standing near my son,
one of my kids was here,
1333
00:59:57,375 --> 00:59:58,792
one of them was here.
1334
00:59:58,876 --> 01:00:01,125
They was 4 and 5,
1335
01:00:01,209 --> 01:00:03,292
and one was 2.
Myisha was 2.
1336
01:00:03,375 --> 01:00:04,667
I had Isha in my arms.
1337
01:00:04,751 --> 01:00:07,292
I said, "Oh, fuck it.
This is it."
1338
01:00:07,375 --> 01:00:09,792
And I started walking,
and when I got by the window,
1339
01:00:09,876 --> 01:00:11,626
I still had Isha in my arms,
1340
01:00:11,709 --> 01:00:15,083
but I could see Merle.
Merle was out.
1341
01:00:15,167 --> 01:00:17,500
If Merle out, I'm going out.
1342
01:00:17,584 --> 01:00:20,626
But once I got out
the side of the window,
1343
01:00:20,709 --> 01:00:23,042
this is what they say.
Where that damn picture?
1344
01:00:23,125 --> 01:00:24,959
When I got out
the side of the window
1345
01:00:25,042 --> 01:00:27,459
to get Merle,
this is what I was faced with.
1346
01:00:27,542 --> 01:00:29,834
(crowd yelling)
1347
01:00:29,918 --> 01:00:31,709
I started walking
down Pearl Street,
1348
01:00:31,792 --> 01:00:33,834
but when I got to
the corner of Pearl Street,
1349
01:00:33,918 --> 01:00:37,375
the civil disobedience-ing
women were coming towards me.
1350
01:00:37,459 --> 01:00:38,751
They was gonna
take my daughter.
1351
01:00:38,834 --> 01:00:40,334
They was gonna take
my baby from me.
1352
01:00:40,417 --> 01:00:42,209
They put me in the paddy wagon.
1353
01:00:42,292 --> 01:00:45,709
My skin was burning,
them clothes was so hot
1354
01:00:45,792 --> 01:00:48,375
that they was
sticking to my skin,
and I remember trying
1355
01:00:48,459 --> 01:00:50,584
to keep them off of my skin
because it was burning.
1356
01:00:50,667 --> 01:00:52,334
Man:
I assume that you're
distinguishing between
1357
01:00:52,417 --> 01:00:54,167
the word "smoke"
and the word "tear gas,"
1358
01:00:54,250 --> 01:00:56,667
-is that correct?
-O'Neill: That's correct.
I conferred with Dr. Polk
1359
01:00:56,751 --> 01:00:59,334
about the effect of gas
on the lungs of a child
1360
01:00:59,417 --> 01:01:00,959
because we knew that they had
1361
01:01:01,042 --> 01:01:02,959
some very small
children in there,
1362
01:01:03,042 --> 01:01:04,542
and their recommendation was
1363
01:01:04,626 --> 01:01:06,667
that we not use it.
So we didn't use it.
1364
01:01:06,751 --> 01:01:08,834
Fair:
They've just thrown gas,
1365
01:01:08,918 --> 01:01:10,918
and they're dragging MOVE
members out right now.
1366
01:01:11,042 --> 01:01:12,667
Man:
...basement window in the front.
1367
01:01:12,751 --> 01:01:16,459
One of the MOVE members
coming out and to prison.
1368
01:01:16,542 --> 01:01:19,417
Hurst:
The next half hour
or so like that
1369
01:01:19,500 --> 01:01:23,000
was a matter of getting
everything out of there.
1370
01:01:23,083 --> 01:01:26,042
♪ ♪
1371
01:01:26,125 --> 01:01:29,209
(inaudible)
1372
01:01:33,584 --> 01:01:36,709
(muffled chatter)
1373
01:01:40,417 --> 01:01:42,417
Then they all
started coming out,
1374
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:44,792
and they were putting
their children out first
1375
01:01:44,876 --> 01:01:46,876
so that they,
of course, wouldn't be shot.
1376
01:01:46,959 --> 01:01:50,042
(inaudible)
1377
01:02:00,584 --> 01:02:03,292
Then Delbert Africa
started coming out
1378
01:02:03,375 --> 01:02:05,667
of the Pearl Street window,
1379
01:02:06,876 --> 01:02:09,959
and, of course,
he was helped out
1380
01:02:10,042 --> 01:02:14,334
by the couple of
stakeout officers and, um...
1381
01:02:15,459 --> 01:02:17,375
Interviewer:
1382
01:02:17,459 --> 01:02:19,667
Well, he was. um,
1383
01:02:19,751 --> 01:02:21,792
he was being subdued.
1384
01:02:21,876 --> 01:02:24,584
Lemme just put it
that way. He was...
1385
01:02:26,209 --> 01:02:29,500
-he was subdued.
-(indistinct shouting)
1386
01:02:29,584 --> 01:02:31,709
Bob Steinmetz:
He's hitting him,
he's hitting him.
1387
01:02:31,792 --> 01:02:34,834
Hitting him on the head.
Kicked him in the head!
1388
01:02:34,918 --> 01:02:36,834
(crowd shouting)
1389
01:02:36,918 --> 01:02:40,083
-I have no idea. I couldn't see.
-Man: That's enough!
1390
01:02:40,167 --> 01:02:43,542
Hurst:
He was being helped out
by them three officers.
1391
01:02:43,626 --> 01:02:46,334
And then promptly
went to the hospital.
1392
01:02:47,542 --> 01:02:51,000
But, um, should've
went to the morgue.
1393
01:02:52,042 --> 01:02:54,500
It's one of the few
things I think
1394
01:02:54,584 --> 01:02:57,918
I've seen as a reporter,
for a long time,
1395
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,626
that I'm never gonna forget.
1396
01:03:00,709 --> 01:03:03,250
It was vicious.
1397
01:03:03,334 --> 01:03:05,626
It was sadism. It was...
1398
01:03:05,709 --> 01:03:07,626
attempted murder.
1399
01:03:07,709 --> 01:03:09,417
Dubin:
At that point,
1400
01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:12,626
we become aware that the police
1401
01:03:12,709 --> 01:03:14,584
see us in the window.
1402
01:03:16,209 --> 01:03:18,000
So we're a little
nervous about that.
1403
01:03:18,083 --> 01:03:19,918
We don't want anybody
shooting at us,
1404
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,375
so we move from the window.
1405
01:03:22,459 --> 01:03:24,834
Bill's afraid they're
gonna confiscate his film.
1406
01:03:24,918 --> 01:03:27,584
This is a time when
they're still using film.
1407
01:03:27,667 --> 01:03:30,709
And he takes the film
out of his camera
and puts it in his boot.
1408
01:03:30,792 --> 01:03:34,042
♪ ♪
1409
01:03:34,125 --> 01:03:36,334
Hurst:
So they got everybody
out of there.
1410
01:03:37,667 --> 01:03:39,125
And then,
1411
01:03:39,209 --> 01:03:41,626
then they put a unit together,
1412
01:03:41,709 --> 01:03:43,375
and I was one of them.
1413
01:03:43,459 --> 01:03:46,709
Man:
You mentioned that Mr. Hurst,
who I believe currently
1414
01:03:46,792 --> 01:03:49,000
heads the Fraternal Order
of the Police, played a role
1415
01:03:49,083 --> 01:03:51,667
-in the 1978 plan.
-O'Neill: He happened to be
1416
01:03:51,751 --> 01:03:53,834
right at the same--
where I happened to be,
1417
01:03:53,918 --> 01:03:55,918
and I'm pleased that
I was at the same location
1418
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:57,500
-that he was.
-Man: Do you recall
1419
01:03:57,584 --> 01:03:59,626
whether Mr. Hurst
played any other role
1420
01:03:59,709 --> 01:04:01,417
at that time,
other than observing
1421
01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:03,125
what was going on
in the basement?
1422
01:04:03,209 --> 01:04:06,083
I don't really know
what you're, you know,
1423
01:04:06,167 --> 01:04:07,584
if you could re...
1424
01:04:07,667 --> 01:04:10,334
Man:
It is your recollection then
that he was there with you for
1425
01:04:10,417 --> 01:04:13,334
-at least a short
period of time?
-O'Neill: Oh, probably a matter
1426
01:04:13,417 --> 01:04:15,042
of a few seconds or minutes,
something like that.
1427
01:04:15,125 --> 01:04:17,417
Man:
And that's all that
you observed him do
1428
01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:19,792
and that was to peer
into the basement.
1429
01:04:19,876 --> 01:04:22,334
You didn't observe him do
anything else at that point?
1430
01:04:22,417 --> 01:04:25,000
Well, he was telling them
to put their weapons down
1431
01:04:25,083 --> 01:04:26,959
-and things of that nature.
-Man: Do you know
1432
01:04:27,042 --> 01:04:29,918
whether or not he recovered
a weapon from inside of
1433
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:32,083
the MOVE house on
Powelton Avenue?
1434
01:04:32,167 --> 01:04:35,500
I don't recall specifically
whether he did or did not
1435
01:04:35,584 --> 01:04:37,417
because a number of
weapons were recovered
1436
01:04:37,500 --> 01:04:39,083
and they were
handed out. In fact,
1437
01:04:39,167 --> 01:04:41,792
one was handed to me,
and I remember that
1438
01:04:41,876 --> 01:04:43,792
the MOVE people trying
to make a big issue
1439
01:04:43,876 --> 01:04:46,626
over the fact that
I had a weapon
1440
01:04:46,709 --> 01:04:50,334
that I had handed
back into them,
or some such stuff as that
1441
01:04:50,417 --> 01:04:52,918
that the weapon
was a police weapon.
1442
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,083
♪ ♪
1443
01:04:56,167 --> 01:04:58,584
Hurst:
When we went into the house,
1444
01:04:58,667 --> 01:05:01,667
and then down
into the basement,
1445
01:05:01,751 --> 01:05:04,375
we waded through there.
1446
01:05:04,459 --> 01:05:07,918
The water was
up to my belly button,
about three feet.
1447
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,250
And then there was sorta like
1448
01:05:10,334 --> 01:05:14,167
an area to the right, and to
the left was storage, and we--
1449
01:05:14,250 --> 01:05:16,542
Excuse me, and
we took some weapons
1450
01:05:16,626 --> 01:05:18,417
and stuff like that and ammo,
1451
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:20,250
and different things like that,
1452
01:05:20,334 --> 01:05:22,459
and make a chain line
1453
01:05:22,542 --> 01:05:25,292
to go from there
out to the window.
1454
01:05:25,375 --> 01:05:29,292
And it was put out
the window like that from us.
1455
01:05:29,375 --> 01:05:31,334
The tear gas was down there,
1456
01:05:31,417 --> 01:05:34,500
and it was--
I was overcome by it,
1457
01:05:34,584 --> 01:05:37,167
as were several of
the other officers,
1458
01:05:37,250 --> 01:05:41,000
and so we came out,
and we went to the hospital.
1459
01:05:41,083 --> 01:05:43,918
I went to
the Misericordia Hospital.
1460
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,417
Interviewer:
1461
01:05:45,500 --> 01:05:47,459
Pardon?
1462
01:05:47,542 --> 01:05:49,792
The police used tear gas.
1463
01:05:49,876 --> 01:05:52,667
So when I was in the hospital,
1464
01:05:52,751 --> 01:05:55,125
I drew a plan
1465
01:05:55,209 --> 01:05:58,417
of everything I remembered
in that basement...
1466
01:06:00,042 --> 01:06:03,709
and what was taken out,
to the best of my ability.
1467
01:06:05,125 --> 01:06:07,876
Well, it was good that
was done because...
1468
01:06:09,792 --> 01:06:14,000
Rizzo ordered the building
demolished right then.
1469
01:06:15,250 --> 01:06:16,876
Right then.
1470
01:06:16,959 --> 01:06:19,209
Taken down completely
with bulldozers.
1471
01:06:20,292 --> 01:06:23,209
And, and so
there was no evidence.
1472
01:06:23,292 --> 01:06:25,459
And so that little
sheet of paper
1473
01:06:25,542 --> 01:06:28,417
was the thing that was
used for the trial.
1474
01:06:28,500 --> 01:06:29,834
Who knew?
1475
01:06:31,083 --> 01:06:34,250
(keys rattling, unlocks door)
1476
01:06:38,083 --> 01:06:41,167
Mike Africa Jr.:
John Africa said,
"Do what's necessary."
1477
01:06:41,250 --> 01:06:44,626
I got a tape of
him saying that.
1478
01:06:44,709 --> 01:06:47,000
So I would listen to it,
and just listen to it,
1479
01:06:47,083 --> 01:06:49,667
and then I would--
I spent a lot of time
1480
01:06:49,751 --> 01:06:53,375
with another supporter,
and we found a lot of stuff.
1481
01:06:53,459 --> 01:06:56,918
Witness testimonies,
police statements,
1482
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:58,250
all kind of stuff.
1483
01:06:58,334 --> 01:07:01,083
I actually have
FBI files in here
1484
01:07:01,167 --> 01:07:03,709
from the investigative
reports they did on MOVE
1485
01:07:03,792 --> 01:07:05,667
from back in 1973.
1486
01:07:05,751 --> 01:07:09,000
And this is not even all of it.
This is just some of it.
1487
01:07:11,083 --> 01:07:13,167
-Interviewer:
-Needle in a haystack.
1488
01:07:13,250 --> 01:07:16,417
I'm looking for the evidence.
I'm looking for the information
1489
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:18,167
that would show
1490
01:07:18,250 --> 01:07:20,709
something about
their innocence,
1491
01:07:20,792 --> 01:07:22,375
and it doesn't matter
1492
01:07:22,459 --> 01:07:24,125
if you have to read the entire
1493
01:07:24,209 --> 01:07:25,876
Philadelphia Sunday paper
1494
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,459
to find that one line.
1495
01:07:28,542 --> 01:07:31,626
Look for the needle in
the haystack. Find it.
1496
01:07:31,709 --> 01:07:35,125
And if you can't
find it in this paper,
find it in another paper.
1497
01:07:35,209 --> 01:07:37,876
I wound up doing that info--
that stuff
1498
01:07:37,959 --> 01:07:39,834
for over 25 years.
1499
01:07:39,918 --> 01:07:41,250
Reporter:
The compound belonging to
1500
01:07:41,334 --> 01:07:42,834
the controversial
radical group MOVE
1501
01:07:42,918 --> 01:07:46,459
is no more tonight. It's been
torn down by city bulldozers
1502
01:07:46,542 --> 01:07:49,417
after a dramatic early morning
shootout in West Philadelphia.
1503
01:07:49,500 --> 01:07:51,375
Eleven MOVE members
are behind bars tonight
1504
01:07:51,459 --> 01:07:53,876
after the battle.
One police officer is dead,
1505
01:07:53,959 --> 01:07:56,584
four others hospitalized,
along with two firemen.
1506
01:07:56,667 --> 01:07:59,751
And as I perceived it while
watching this drama unfold,
1507
01:07:59,834 --> 01:08:01,584
MOVE gave its dogs
more of a chance
1508
01:08:01,667 --> 01:08:03,083
than it gave their own children.
1509
01:08:03,167 --> 01:08:05,584
But I really think something
sh-- could've been worked out
1510
01:08:05,667 --> 01:08:07,751
a little bit better
than what this is.
1511
01:08:07,834 --> 01:08:10,709
People getting killed, babies,
1512
01:08:11,918 --> 01:08:13,667
police officers.
1513
01:08:13,751 --> 01:08:16,542
Everybody suffering,
neighborhood is tensed up.
1514
01:08:16,626 --> 01:08:19,167
There were some residents who
felt the city acted with plenty
1515
01:08:19,250 --> 01:08:22,042
of restraint and blamed
the whole confrontation on MOVE.
1516
01:08:22,125 --> 01:08:24,667
Most of those people
refused to appear on camera
1517
01:08:24,751 --> 01:08:26,500
for fear of retaliation.
1518
01:08:26,584 --> 01:08:28,500
That concludes our coverage
of what happened in
1519
01:08:28,584 --> 01:08:31,626
Powelton Village on this day,
August 8th, 1978.
1520
01:08:31,709 --> 01:08:34,918
It was a day on which
a policeman was killed,
a house was torn down,
1521
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:36,834
and a whole movement exploded.
1522
01:08:36,918 --> 01:08:40,042
For Bill Baldini,
I'm Michael Tuck. Good night.
1523
01:08:40,125 --> 01:08:43,209
♪ ♪
1524
01:08:49,209 --> 01:08:51,042
Pomer:
I remember a few days ago,
1525
01:08:51,125 --> 01:08:54,626
I think you were
trying to save-- get a court
order to save the house.
1526
01:08:54,709 --> 01:08:58,209
Palmer:
Yeah, what we did,
Oscar Gaskins' office filed
1527
01:08:58,292 --> 01:09:00,083
an injunction enjoining
the city from tearing
1528
01:09:00,167 --> 01:09:02,042
the property down.
1529
01:09:02,125 --> 01:09:04,125
And as you can see here,
the city is now in the process
1530
01:09:04,209 --> 01:09:05,375
of tearing the property down.
1531
01:09:05,459 --> 01:09:07,375
Question we've
gotta ask is why.
1532
01:09:07,459 --> 01:09:09,042
You know, why is that
house being torn down
1533
01:09:09,125 --> 01:09:11,167
and why is there such
a great effort put to it?
1534
01:09:11,250 --> 01:09:12,918
Tonight, we have
a complete special report
1535
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:14,834
on the battle at MOVE,
the wild shootout
1536
01:09:14,918 --> 01:09:16,417
that took
a policeman's life.
1537
01:09:16,500 --> 01:09:19,083
The Instant Eye
was there through
the terror-filled fight,
1538
01:09:19,167 --> 01:09:21,000
and we've got reaction
from all sides.
1539
01:09:21,083 --> 01:09:23,334
All the while, they play on
the news media that the people
1540
01:09:23,417 --> 01:09:24,751
in Powelton Village agree
1541
01:09:24,834 --> 01:09:26,500
with what was going down.
That was a lie.
1542
01:09:26,584 --> 01:09:28,876
They'll go down and get three
white people off the corner
1543
01:09:28,959 --> 01:09:30,459
from Baring Street
1544
01:09:30,542 --> 01:09:31,834
and say we don't like MOVE.
1545
01:09:31,918 --> 01:09:33,083
Why ain't they ask
the Black people?
1546
01:09:33,167 --> 01:09:34,584
Rizzo:
The press has to
1547
01:09:34,667 --> 01:09:37,167
take part of
the responsibility
1548
01:09:37,250 --> 01:09:39,584
for their
irresponsible acts.
1549
01:09:39,667 --> 01:09:41,459
They believe
what you read,
1550
01:09:41,542 --> 01:09:43,709
what you write,
and what you say,
1551
01:09:43,792 --> 01:09:45,626
and it's got to stop.
1552
01:09:45,709 --> 01:09:48,125
And one day, and I hope
it's in my career,
1553
01:09:48,209 --> 01:09:50,918
that you're going to have
to be held responsible
1554
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:52,876
and accountable
for what you do.
1555
01:09:52,959 --> 01:09:55,209
One reporter claims to have
looked up and seen the muzzle
1556
01:09:55,292 --> 01:09:57,250
of a weapon sticking
out the window.
1557
01:09:57,334 --> 01:09:59,209
Walt Hunter from WCAU,
by the way,
1558
01:09:59,292 --> 01:10:02,334
swears that a shot was fired
going in this direction.
1559
01:10:02,417 --> 01:10:05,709
Reporter 1:
For Helen Ramp and her
14-year-old son, James Junior,
1560
01:10:05,792 --> 01:10:08,375
the terror and violence
at MOVE headquarters came
1561
01:10:08,459 --> 01:10:11,459
crashing down this morning at
Presbyterian Medical Center.
1562
01:10:11,542 --> 01:10:14,626
Inside, they were told
James Ramp, husband, father,
1563
01:10:14,709 --> 01:10:16,459
and Philadelphia
police sharpshooter,
1564
01:10:16,542 --> 01:10:18,709
had been shot to death
in the crossfire at
1565
01:10:18,792 --> 01:10:20,542
the West Philadelphia
compound.
1566
01:10:20,626 --> 01:10:22,709
Ramp, 52,
was shot in the chest
1567
01:10:22,792 --> 01:10:24,876
and died soon after
being admitted.
1568
01:10:24,959 --> 01:10:26,292
Shortly after
the shooting ended,
1569
01:10:26,375 --> 01:10:27,959
there was a near
violent confrontation
1570
01:10:28,042 --> 01:10:29,959
between police and an angry
crowd that gathered.
1571
01:10:30,042 --> 01:10:32,876
-Nobody was hurt.
-Reporter 2: To prevent
the spread of trouble,
1572
01:10:32,959 --> 01:10:35,083
police sealed off one
corner of the intersection
1573
01:10:35,167 --> 01:10:36,834
where the rock
throwing occurred.
1574
01:10:36,918 --> 01:10:39,751
We talked with one
young man, a teenager,
1575
01:10:39,834 --> 01:10:42,792
who accused the police
of beating him.
1576
01:10:42,876 --> 01:10:44,918
And, as you remember,
I asked him,
1577
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:46,918
"Now, what do you mean
when you say beating?"
1578
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,083
And he indicated
that the police
pushed and shoved him
1579
01:10:50,167 --> 01:10:52,918
and hit him with
a knife stick--
a nightstick.
1580
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,334
What people
don't understand,
I think, Vince,
1581
01:10:55,417 --> 01:10:56,959
is that in a situation
like that,
1582
01:10:57,042 --> 01:10:59,292
police just don't have
time to ask twice.
1583
01:10:59,375 --> 01:11:02,334
So perhaps if there was
some direct involvement
1584
01:11:02,417 --> 01:11:04,000
by high city officials,
1585
01:11:04,083 --> 01:11:06,500
-we could cool out any
possible problem--
-Yeah. Communication is needed
1586
01:11:06,584 --> 01:11:09,834
because when we talked with them
and also with the policeman,
1587
01:11:09,918 --> 01:11:13,751
we did learn that
rumors were flying.
1588
01:11:13,834 --> 01:11:15,959
Reporter:
Commissioner, what's the
situation in Powelton now?
1589
01:11:16,042 --> 01:11:18,292
Police are in control in
Powelton at the present time,
1590
01:11:18,375 --> 01:11:20,292
and if there are any
additional confrontations,
1591
01:11:20,375 --> 01:11:22,792
I can assure you that the police
will take care of them.
1592
01:11:22,876 --> 01:11:25,209
We will not brook any nonsense.
1593
01:11:25,292 --> 01:11:28,000
Anybody that takes his own out
in Powelton or anywhere else
1594
01:11:28,083 --> 01:11:29,792
in this city
1595
01:11:29,876 --> 01:11:31,167
is going to be crushed.
1596
01:11:31,250 --> 01:11:34,000
Pomer:
They all charged,
chased everybody
1597
01:11:34,083 --> 01:11:36,292
all, all over the place
with their clubs.
1598
01:11:36,375 --> 01:11:39,876
Bunch of people ran into their
own houses and were followed.
1599
01:11:39,959 --> 01:11:43,042
I was upstairs sleeping,
then I heard all this noise
on the steps.
1600
01:11:43,125 --> 01:11:44,626
Then the cop was
swinging the nightstick
1601
01:11:44,709 --> 01:11:46,209
and hit me in my eye
and my head.
1602
01:11:46,292 --> 01:11:48,375
-Reporter: Where were
you at that time?
-On top of the steps.
1603
01:11:48,459 --> 01:11:50,417
Reporter:
You were on top of the steps.
The cop came into the house
1604
01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:52,542
-to do this?
-Woman 1: Yeah!
They came into the house!
1605
01:11:52,626 --> 01:11:54,250
And here comes all these
people and all these cops.
1606
01:11:54,334 --> 01:11:56,209
They're chasing them
again with the nightsticks,
hitting them all
1607
01:11:56,292 --> 01:11:58,751
on the shoulders and stuff.
There's about three
up there already hurt.
1608
01:11:58,834 --> 01:12:02,417
Woman 2:
These people want these
white racist pigs to go home,
1609
01:12:02,500 --> 01:12:05,834
back to their own northeast
families where they belong at.
1610
01:12:05,918 --> 01:12:07,459
Go up there and beat heads
1611
01:12:07,542 --> 01:12:09,834
and trample on people's
children with their horses.
1612
01:12:09,918 --> 01:12:12,292
They don't want this
shit down here. We tired.
1613
01:12:12,375 --> 01:12:15,042
-(crowd yelling)
-No-good shit-eating vermin,
motherfucker!
1614
01:12:15,125 --> 01:12:17,459
Kill me,
you son of a bitch!
1615
01:12:17,542 --> 01:12:20,334
No-good white
motherfucking beasts!
1616
01:12:20,417 --> 01:12:23,667
Reporter 1:
A group of MOVE supporters
spent much of the day outside
1617
01:12:23,751 --> 01:12:25,918
a heavily guarded
Jaffray Medical Center,
1618
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,709
waiting for word on Chuckie
and the other MOVE patient,
1619
01:12:28,792 --> 01:12:32,584
Delbert Africa,
thought to be the most
seriously injured
1620
01:12:32,667 --> 01:12:34,626
in Tuesday's
battle with police.
1621
01:12:34,709 --> 01:12:36,834
Delbert has a broken cheekbone
1622
01:12:36,918 --> 01:12:38,834
plus a bloodshot
and swollen eye.
1623
01:12:38,918 --> 01:12:42,751
Reporter 2:
MOVE members charged with the
murder of Police Officer Ramp.
1624
01:12:42,834 --> 01:12:44,542
Reporter 3:
It took hours of
microscopic examination
1625
01:12:44,626 --> 01:12:47,083
and police have now
decided that the weapon
1626
01:12:47,167 --> 01:12:49,209
that killed Ramp
belonged to MOVE.
1627
01:12:49,292 --> 01:12:52,209
This firearm that I'm holding
in my hand is the weapon
1628
01:12:52,292 --> 01:12:54,626
that fired the projectile
that killed Officer Ramp.
1629
01:12:54,709 --> 01:12:56,876
Reporter 3:
The semiautomatic rifle
was one of only a number
1630
01:12:56,959 --> 01:12:59,292
of weapons confiscated
after the shootout.
1631
01:12:59,375 --> 01:13:02,417
Police also found
1,600 rounds of ammunition,
1632
01:13:02,500 --> 01:13:04,792
both fired and unfired,
gas masks,
1633
01:13:04,876 --> 01:13:06,459
holsters, and ammunition boxes.
1634
01:13:06,542 --> 01:13:08,792
Washington:
I saw them bring the guns
out of that basement.
1635
01:13:08,876 --> 01:13:11,500
So if you have
250,000 gallons of water
1636
01:13:11,584 --> 01:13:14,459
in the basement,
no electricity, it's dark,
1637
01:13:14,542 --> 01:13:17,000
and there's residue
of smoke and tear gas,
1638
01:13:17,083 --> 01:13:18,667
how thorough was
the investigation
1639
01:13:18,751 --> 01:13:20,751
in an hour and a half?
And these were
1640
01:13:20,834 --> 01:13:22,792
the same weapons that
were sparkling clean
1641
01:13:22,876 --> 01:13:26,083
when Rizzo gave his
press conference
in that afternoon.
1642
01:13:26,167 --> 01:13:28,500
Rendell:
The police force and
the city administration
1643
01:13:28,584 --> 01:13:31,542
has acted,
in my judgment, with...
1644
01:13:31,626 --> 01:13:33,751
extremely commendable restraint.
1645
01:13:33,834 --> 01:13:37,792
The police probably would've
been legally within their rights
1646
01:13:37,876 --> 01:13:40,250
to have, subsequent to
the shooting of Officer Ramp,
1647
01:13:40,334 --> 01:13:44,250
stormed the house and killed all
of the people in that basement.
1648
01:13:44,334 --> 01:13:47,125
Do you know of any incidents
where some officers may have
1649
01:13:47,209 --> 01:13:50,334
become a little overzealous
in arresting some of
the MOVE members?
1650
01:13:50,417 --> 01:13:53,000
I know of one instance
where one of the MOVE
members came out
1651
01:13:53,083 --> 01:13:56,167
the window with a cartridge
case in one hand,
1652
01:13:56,250 --> 01:13:58,584
a clip, and with
a knife in the other.
1653
01:14:00,334 --> 01:14:02,375
...with a cartridge
case in one hand...
1654
01:14:02,459 --> 01:14:05,083
and with a knife
in the other...
1655
01:14:05,167 --> 01:14:08,876
Where he was hit on the top of
the head with a steel helmet
1656
01:14:08,959 --> 01:14:10,083
and was taken into custody,
1657
01:14:10,167 --> 01:14:11,918
if that's what you're
referring to, Bill.
1658
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,709
If that's overzealous,
so be it.
1659
01:14:13,792 --> 01:14:16,292
But I've had it up to here
with individual reporters
1660
01:14:16,375 --> 01:14:19,667
who are constantly
our adversaries,
1661
01:14:19,751 --> 01:14:21,959
constantly.
And I think when you go out
1662
01:14:22,042 --> 01:14:24,334
and you talk to these people
and stir them up
1663
01:14:24,417 --> 01:14:26,584
and try to find out who did
what where and all that,
1664
01:14:26,667 --> 01:14:28,918
that you're being
totally unfair
1665
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,167
to the police of this
community and to the people
1666
01:14:32,250 --> 01:14:33,792
of this community.
1667
01:14:33,876 --> 01:14:35,918
And you accept at face value
1668
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,042
absolute lies that
are told to you.
1669
01:14:38,125 --> 01:14:39,751
You don't even
get off your asses
1670
01:14:39,834 --> 01:14:42,459
and walk down to look where
these people claim they were.
1671
01:14:42,542 --> 01:14:45,209
Reporter:
Despite official statements
claiming the police showed
1672
01:14:45,292 --> 01:14:48,667
great restraint in Powelton
Village yesterday, these people
1673
01:14:48,751 --> 01:14:51,834
chanted a series of anti-Rizzo
and anti-police slogans.
1674
01:14:51,918 --> 01:14:53,918
Peruto:
The real thing that made
it bad was the video.
1675
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,959
The Fraternal Order of Police,
which my father represented,
1676
01:14:58,042 --> 01:15:00,375
was very, very upset
that they would even
1677
01:15:00,459 --> 01:15:02,834
arrest these officers
involved in this case.
1678
01:15:02,918 --> 01:15:06,250
What they should've done
is shot the goddamn bum,
1679
01:15:06,334 --> 01:15:08,667
and then there would've
been no trouble today.
1680
01:15:08,751 --> 01:15:10,751
Reporter:
Mayor Rizzo,
Police Commissioner O'Neill,
1681
01:15:10,834 --> 01:15:13,751
Fire Commissioner Joe Rizzo,
and other high-ranking officers
1682
01:15:13,834 --> 01:15:15,751
file past Ramp's open casket.
1683
01:15:15,834 --> 01:15:17,292
Then the patrolmen and women,
1684
01:15:17,375 --> 01:15:19,334
many of whom Ramp knew,
many of whom
1685
01:15:19,417 --> 01:15:22,042
were just brothers and sisters
in the Fraternity of Police.
1686
01:15:22,125 --> 01:15:24,918
And many emerged
from the church
with tears in their eyes.
1687
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,334
Rizzo:
I hope that their jury of
their peers finds them guilty
1688
01:15:28,417 --> 01:15:30,542
and then they're put
on the electric chair
1689
01:15:30,626 --> 01:15:32,834
where they belong,
the people that had any part
1690
01:15:32,918 --> 01:15:34,167
in the killing of Jim Ramp.
1691
01:15:34,250 --> 01:15:36,500
Peruto:
If it was testimony
from eyewitnesses
1692
01:15:36,584 --> 01:15:39,959
from five feet away,
you could reject it
and say, I don't care.
1693
01:15:40,042 --> 01:15:42,167
If the cops say it
happened this way,
1694
01:15:42,250 --> 01:15:43,542
that's the way it happened.
1695
01:15:43,626 --> 01:15:46,209
And people still believe
that today in juries.
1696
01:15:46,292 --> 01:15:49,292
It's not that they beat
his face and beat his body.
1697
01:15:49,375 --> 01:15:52,584
It's the fact that they
got caught. Inescapably,
1698
01:15:52,667 --> 01:15:54,459
because it's on video.
1699
01:15:54,542 --> 01:15:57,626
There's no question of how it
happened and what happened.
1700
01:15:57,709 --> 01:15:59,626
Now what are we
gonna do about it?
1701
01:15:59,709 --> 01:16:01,751
For the first time in years,
the Black community
1702
01:16:01,834 --> 01:16:04,375
of Philadelphia staged
a major demonstration
1703
01:16:04,459 --> 01:16:06,209
against the Rizzo
administration.
1704
01:16:06,292 --> 01:16:08,125
The focal point
of this protest,
1705
01:16:08,209 --> 01:16:11,083
the pictures of Delbert Africa
being beaten by police
1706
01:16:11,167 --> 01:16:13,834
after surrendering from
the MOVE house last Tuesday.
1707
01:16:13,918 --> 01:16:16,792
Many of these Black people
feel they themselves
1708
01:16:16,876 --> 01:16:19,918
could get similar
treatment from the police.
1709
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:23,209
George Parry:
I became aware of the beating
watching the 11:00 news,
1710
01:16:23,292 --> 01:16:25,250
and I spoke with
the district attorney
1711
01:16:25,334 --> 01:16:27,250
and told him that, to me,
1712
01:16:27,334 --> 01:16:30,209
the evidence was
clear that we--
1713
01:16:30,292 --> 01:16:33,209
we had to prosecute those
three police officers.
1714
01:16:33,292 --> 01:16:36,334
With us right now is
District Attorney Ed Rendell.
1715
01:16:36,417 --> 01:16:39,667
You saw the film,
you heard Commissioner
O'Neill's comments.
1716
01:16:39,751 --> 01:16:40,876
How do you see it?
1717
01:16:40,959 --> 01:16:42,876
Rendell:
Obviously, Bill,
on the face of it,
1718
01:16:42,959 --> 01:16:46,167
it looks like the police
were overzealous
in that one clip.
1719
01:16:46,250 --> 01:16:48,125
When we look at
an incident like this,
1720
01:16:48,209 --> 01:16:50,792
we don't look at it
as an isolated film clip.
1721
01:16:50,876 --> 01:16:53,459
We look at it in context
with what occurred
1722
01:16:53,542 --> 01:16:56,000
minutes before it,
and the emotion of that
1723
01:16:56,083 --> 01:16:57,626
and what had occurred
and the violence
1724
01:16:57,709 --> 01:17:00,334
that was perpetrated on
policemen and on firemen,
1725
01:17:00,417 --> 01:17:02,083
and we have to view it
in that context.
1726
01:17:02,167 --> 01:17:04,834
Interviewer:
1727
01:17:04,918 --> 01:17:07,209
Well, he, you know,
he ultimately agreed.
1728
01:17:07,292 --> 01:17:10,334
He was quite concerned.
Obviously, he wanted to get
1729
01:17:10,417 --> 01:17:13,417
all the facts,
and I agreed with that. Fine.
1730
01:17:13,500 --> 01:17:17,542
And after a very
thorough investigation,
1731
01:17:17,626 --> 01:17:19,709
we then arranged to
1732
01:17:19,792 --> 01:17:23,042
have the police
officers arrested.
1733
01:17:23,125 --> 01:17:27,209
And the day that they
were to surrender,
1734
01:17:27,292 --> 01:17:29,042
I came into the office.
1735
01:17:29,125 --> 01:17:31,209
I said to a couple
of my detectives
1736
01:17:31,292 --> 01:17:32,959
who were assigned
to the unit, I said,
1737
01:17:33,042 --> 01:17:36,083
"Why don't you get on
down to the police
administration building
1738
01:17:36,167 --> 01:17:39,292
and process the officers
that are supposed
to surrender today?"
1739
01:17:39,375 --> 01:17:42,042
And everybody looked at me like
1740
01:17:42,125 --> 01:17:44,250
I was-- I had two heads.
1741
01:17:44,334 --> 01:17:46,918
And I said, "What in
the world's going on?"
1742
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,709
And they said,
"Don't you know?"
1743
01:17:48,792 --> 01:17:52,334
Crowd:
I wear blue! Take me, too!
I wear blue! Take me, too!
1744
01:17:52,417 --> 01:17:54,500
Peruto:
"I wear blue, take me, too."
1745
01:17:54,584 --> 01:17:56,834
That was the chant.
It had started at 500 strong.
1746
01:17:56,918 --> 01:17:59,918
It ended up
2,500, 3,500 easy.
1747
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:01,125
It was a lot of people.
1748
01:18:01,209 --> 01:18:03,751
The case got assigned
to a bad judge,
1749
01:18:03,834 --> 01:18:06,209
so we thought.
Stanley Kubacki,
1750
01:18:06,292 --> 01:18:08,042
who was a very tough judge,
1751
01:18:08,125 --> 01:18:10,209
and he would put people in
jail for a million years.
1752
01:18:10,292 --> 01:18:12,751
Reporter 1:
Two of the defendants
testified, teary-eyed,
1753
01:18:12,834 --> 01:18:14,209
they feared he
was laying on top
1754
01:18:14,292 --> 01:18:16,334
of Officer Geist's
missing pistol,
1755
01:18:16,417 --> 01:18:19,125
that the kicks were an effort
to turn Delbert over.
1756
01:18:19,209 --> 01:18:22,125
Reporter 2:
O'Neill told the court that,
"Delbert Africa wasn't a man.
1757
01:18:22,209 --> 01:18:24,042
"He was a savage,
and with a savage,
1758
01:18:24,125 --> 01:18:25,918
you don't know what
he'll do," says O'Neill.
1759
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:27,709
O'Neill said,
"Given the circumstances,
1760
01:18:27,792 --> 01:18:30,167
the force used by police
to subdue the prisoner,"
1761
01:18:30,250 --> 01:18:32,626
meaning Delbert Africa,
"was reasonable."
1762
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:35,250
I thought we stood
a very good chance
1763
01:18:35,334 --> 01:18:37,459
of obtaining a conviction,
1764
01:18:37,542 --> 01:18:40,459
but before the defense
could give its summation,
1765
01:18:40,542 --> 01:18:42,751
and certainly before
I could give my summation,
1766
01:18:42,834 --> 01:18:45,125
the judge came out,
1767
01:18:45,209 --> 01:18:48,083
and called a halt to the trial.
1768
01:18:48,167 --> 01:18:50,042
Boy, that judge turned out to be
1769
01:18:50,125 --> 01:18:51,751
the best thing that
ever happened to them
1770
01:18:51,834 --> 01:18:54,792
because by the time
the trial was over,
1771
01:18:54,876 --> 01:18:57,250
he, all of a sudden,
1772
01:18:57,334 --> 01:19:00,375
issued an order
finding them not guilty,
1773
01:19:00,459 --> 01:19:03,209
and wouldn't even let
the jury decide the case
1774
01:19:03,292 --> 01:19:04,792
because he thought
it was so outrageous
1775
01:19:04,876 --> 01:19:06,459
that they were even
charged. He actually,
1776
01:19:06,542 --> 01:19:09,584
I remember his words.
"Let me be the lightning rod
1777
01:19:09,667 --> 01:19:12,584
"to absorb all of the criticism
the city wants to hail.
1778
01:19:12,667 --> 01:19:14,334
"Let them hail it at me.
1779
01:19:14,417 --> 01:19:16,667
I am not letting this
case go to a jury."
1780
01:19:16,751 --> 01:19:19,584
Reporter:
Despite indications that
the all-white jury chosen
1781
01:19:19,667 --> 01:19:22,834
from Dauphin County would've
found the trio innocent,
1782
01:19:22,918 --> 01:19:24,751
Prosecutor George Parry
had planned
1783
01:19:24,834 --> 01:19:27,042
to raise a significant
credibility issue
1784
01:19:27,125 --> 01:19:29,959
in the closing arguments
that Kubacki denied him.
1785
01:19:30,042 --> 01:19:33,667
Geist was apparently already
kicking Delbert Africa
1786
01:19:33,751 --> 01:19:36,125
as his service revolver
flies from his holster
1787
01:19:36,209 --> 01:19:37,959
because of the kicking motion.
1788
01:19:38,042 --> 01:19:40,709
The kicking that Geist
testified that he did
1789
01:19:40,792 --> 01:19:42,375
to find the gun that was,
1790
01:19:42,459 --> 01:19:45,876
according to this photograph,
not yet missing.
1791
01:19:45,959 --> 01:19:47,250
I am not sorry at
anything I did.
1792
01:19:47,334 --> 01:19:49,751
The only thing I am sorry for
is that James Ramp is dead,
1793
01:19:49,834 --> 01:19:51,667
and a lot of other police
and firemen are now
1794
01:19:51,751 --> 01:19:53,459
out of the job,
permanently injured.
1795
01:19:53,542 --> 01:19:56,792
Would you handle the arrest
of Delbert the same way?
1796
01:19:58,334 --> 01:20:00,584
Yes, in those
circumstances, I would.
1797
01:20:00,667 --> 01:20:03,167
I would do the same if I was
in that same situation again.
1798
01:20:03,250 --> 01:20:06,459
Interviewer:
Is that his place to
make that sort of--
1799
01:20:06,542 --> 01:20:08,417
No. No.
1800
01:20:08,500 --> 01:20:11,667
The judge should only take
a case away from the jury
1801
01:20:11,751 --> 01:20:13,709
when it's, as a matter of law,
1802
01:20:13,792 --> 01:20:18,292
there's no way the jury could've
found the defendant, uh,
1803
01:20:18,375 --> 01:20:21,542
guilty. And here,
the evidence was clear
1804
01:20:21,626 --> 01:20:23,167
just on the tape alone,
1805
01:20:23,250 --> 01:20:25,584
they could've found
the defendant guilty.
1806
01:20:25,667 --> 01:20:28,000
The judge had no
business doing it.
1807
01:20:28,083 --> 01:20:30,250
Interviewer:
How often have you seen
that sort of thing?
1808
01:20:30,334 --> 01:20:31,834
I've never seen
a judge take it away
1809
01:20:31,918 --> 01:20:33,250
from a jury except for this.
1810
01:20:33,334 --> 01:20:34,792
Reporter:
The Academy of Music,
1811
01:20:34,876 --> 01:20:36,959
the Civic Center,
the Spectrum
can all step aside
1812
01:20:37,042 --> 01:20:39,667
because the top showplace
in town these days
1813
01:20:39,751 --> 01:20:42,209
is a commonplace
courtroom in City Hall.
1814
01:20:42,292 --> 01:20:43,709
Do you think it's gonna
be a pretty good show?
1815
01:20:43,792 --> 01:20:45,250
Do you have any ideas
about what it's gonna be like?
1816
01:20:45,334 --> 01:20:47,042
I'm sure it'll be spectacular.
1817
01:20:47,125 --> 01:20:49,834
Reporter:
The defendants have said they
wanna be tried all together,
1818
01:20:49,918 --> 01:20:52,626
without a jury.
Said Delbert Orr Africa,
1819
01:20:52,709 --> 01:20:55,542
"A jury would only be
composed of racist whites
1820
01:20:55,626 --> 01:20:58,918
from the northeast
and store-bought Negroes
from downtown."
1821
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:00,584
Dubin:
It was a bit of a circus.
1822
01:21:00,667 --> 01:21:03,500
They would shout,
gesticulate, scream.
1823
01:21:03,584 --> 01:21:05,292
Then they would
either be restrained,
1824
01:21:05,375 --> 01:21:07,375
or, in some cases,
1825
01:21:07,459 --> 01:21:08,959
removed from the court room.
1826
01:21:09,042 --> 01:21:11,250
Reporter:
The MOVE members will have
to promise they'll behave
1827
01:21:11,334 --> 01:21:13,792
before they come back
and act as their
own lawyers in court.
1828
01:21:13,876 --> 01:21:16,250
Counsel:
And the court appointed me
as backup counsel
1829
01:21:16,334 --> 01:21:18,876
in the event that
the defendants, or my client,
1830
01:21:18,959 --> 01:21:21,834
-should be removed.
-Pomer: But now,
you're taking over.
1831
01:21:21,918 --> 01:21:23,834
Yes.
I did not want to do that,
but the Supreme Court
1832
01:21:23,918 --> 01:21:26,959
-ordered me to do it,
so I'm doing it.
-You didn't want to do that?
1833
01:21:27,042 --> 01:21:30,667
-You could've refused
to do it, right? Why not?
-No.
1834
01:21:30,751 --> 01:21:34,083
Because I have tried to
withdraw from the case.
1835
01:21:34,167 --> 01:21:36,542
-Well you would be in
contempt of court, right?
-That's right.
1836
01:21:36,626 --> 01:21:39,959
-And you're not willing to
go in contempt of court.
-Absolutely not.
1837
01:21:40,042 --> 01:21:43,042
The backup counsels
cannot represent MOVE
1838
01:21:43,125 --> 01:21:46,083
better than themselves
because they are not going
1839
01:21:46,167 --> 01:21:48,292
to risk a contempt order
1840
01:21:48,375 --> 01:21:50,042
telling that judge
when he's wrong.
1841
01:21:50,125 --> 01:21:51,584
They will tell you privately,
1842
01:21:51,667 --> 01:21:54,918
"Yes, Judge Malmed was wrong.
This was illegal."
1843
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:56,918
But they will not stand up
in that courtroom
1844
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:58,459
and let the judge know that.
1845
01:21:58,542 --> 01:22:00,334
They essentially
1846
01:22:00,417 --> 01:22:02,626
pled guilty without
pleading guilty
1847
01:22:02,709 --> 01:22:05,292
because they didn't wanna
1848
01:22:05,375 --> 01:22:07,834
try to take advantage
of the system
1849
01:22:07,918 --> 01:22:10,042
and try to make a case
that they were not guilty.
1850
01:22:10,125 --> 01:22:13,292
I think that the city was pretty
sick of the story in general.
1851
01:22:13,375 --> 01:22:14,584
I know the media was sick of it.
1852
01:22:14,667 --> 01:22:17,667
We covered it on an incident
by incident basis.
1853
01:22:17,751 --> 01:22:19,918
There was no real effort,
in my mind,
1854
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:21,959
to really dig deeper
into what was going on there.
1855
01:22:22,042 --> 01:22:23,667
Pat Warren:
Monaghan told the court
1856
01:22:23,751 --> 01:22:26,125
he heard Delbert Africa
insist that Phil Africa
1857
01:22:26,209 --> 01:22:29,167
take the carbine
and quote,
"Shoot the pig."
1858
01:22:29,250 --> 01:22:31,792
Testimony was wrapped up today
with police still photographer
1859
01:22:31,876 --> 01:22:33,918
John Eugesick
on the stand.
1860
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,083
♪ ♪
1861
01:22:39,834 --> 01:22:42,417
At that point,
I was moving on to other things,
1862
01:22:42,500 --> 01:22:44,751
and I think the city of
Philadelphia was, too.
1863
01:22:44,834 --> 01:22:46,584
Nobody cared about it.
1864
01:22:46,667 --> 01:22:48,626
Not the courts.
1865
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:50,375
Not the news media.
1866
01:22:50,459 --> 01:22:52,209
The coroner's testimony
1867
01:22:52,292 --> 01:22:54,876
differed from the coroner's...
1868
01:22:55,500 --> 01:22:57,209
official report,
1869
01:22:57,292 --> 01:23:00,459
and the DA took out a pencil
1870
01:23:00,542 --> 01:23:02,959
and just changed it
right in court,
1871
01:23:03,042 --> 01:23:04,417
and the judge allowed it!
1872
01:23:04,500 --> 01:23:06,542
-Good evening,
I'm Vince Leonard.
-And I'm Beverly Williams.
1873
01:23:06,626 --> 01:23:09,334
Here's what's happening.
Guilty of murder
in the third degree.
1874
01:23:09,417 --> 01:23:11,542
That's the verdict for
all nine MOVE members.
1875
01:23:11,626 --> 01:23:14,334
The judge said
guilty nine times,
1876
01:23:14,417 --> 01:23:16,834
and Channel 3's
Kim Sedgwick was in court
1877
01:23:16,918 --> 01:23:19,209
when the MOVE murder
verdicts came down. Kim?
1878
01:23:19,292 --> 01:23:21,250
Dick, it was the longest
criminal trial
1879
01:23:21,334 --> 01:23:22,542
in Philadelphia court history
1880
01:23:22,626 --> 01:23:24,709
and one of the longest
in the country.
1881
01:23:24,792 --> 01:23:27,083
Reporter:
"Guilty of murder
in the third degree."
1882
01:23:27,167 --> 01:23:29,918
That's what Judge Malmed
said to each of
the nine MOVE members.
1883
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:33,459
"Liar! Liar!" Delbert Africa
shot back at the judge
1884
01:23:33,542 --> 01:23:35,292
when he was brought
before the bench.
1885
01:23:35,375 --> 01:23:38,500
"How can you find someone
guilty in this illegal court?"
1886
01:23:38,584 --> 01:23:40,334
It was the same
with all the others.
1887
01:23:40,417 --> 01:23:43,667
All shouting obscenities,
all claiming innocence.
1888
01:23:43,751 --> 01:23:46,042
Emotions of the MOVE
supporters were the same.
1889
01:23:46,125 --> 01:23:48,876
You killed my family!
You killed our babies!
1890
01:23:48,959 --> 01:23:52,083
-You railroaded us!
You broke down our house!
-Woman: That's right!
1891
01:23:52,167 --> 01:23:53,918
You broke in our house,
goddammit!
1892
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,709
Reporter:
MOVE defense attorneys
were bitter, too.
1893
01:23:56,792 --> 01:24:00,042
As I said, I was hurt,
disillusioned,
1894
01:24:00,125 --> 01:24:01,334
but not surprised.
1895
01:24:01,417 --> 01:24:04,292
In the news tonight, nine
members of the radical group
1896
01:24:04,375 --> 01:24:06,334
MOVE are facing stiff jail terms
1897
01:24:06,417 --> 01:24:08,792
for their part in a shootout
with Philadelphia police.
1898
01:24:08,876 --> 01:24:11,959
Reporter:
Judge Edwin Malmed sentenced
each of the nine MOVE members
1899
01:24:12,042 --> 01:24:15,125
to 30 to 100 years in jail,
nearly the maximum sentence
1900
01:24:15,209 --> 01:24:17,459
that had been requested
by the district attorney.
1901
01:24:17,542 --> 01:24:19,792
Each MOVE member cursed
and threatened the judge
1902
01:24:19,876 --> 01:24:21,375
as he was brought
into court today.
1903
01:24:21,459 --> 01:24:24,125
The judge then ordered each
of the MOVE members removed
1904
01:24:24,209 --> 01:24:25,876
and their sentences
were relayed
1905
01:24:25,959 --> 01:24:27,209
to them by their attorney.
1906
01:24:27,292 --> 01:24:28,918
Judge Malmed, explaining
the verdict, called
1907
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,709
the MOVE members' conduct
"criminal and obscene,"
1908
01:24:31,792 --> 01:24:34,000
and he quietly declared
that MOVE members had
1909
01:24:34,083 --> 01:24:36,876
"abused this community
for far too long."
1910
01:24:36,959 --> 01:24:38,250
They have at all
times maintained
1911
01:24:38,334 --> 01:24:41,083
they were a family
and acted together.
1912
01:24:41,167 --> 01:24:43,751
I, therefore, took
them at their own word.
1913
01:24:43,834 --> 01:24:46,751
If they're a family
and have all acted together,
1914
01:24:46,834 --> 01:24:49,417
then they acted in concert,
they acted jointly,
1915
01:24:49,500 --> 01:24:51,500
and they should
all share equally
1916
01:24:51,584 --> 01:24:53,500
in the punishment imposed.
1917
01:24:54,417 --> 01:24:56,667
♪ ♪
1918
01:24:56,751 --> 01:25:00,250
Interviewer:
Do you think they
deserve to get parole?
1919
01:25:00,334 --> 01:25:03,167
Rendell:
I'm not against
people who've done
1920
01:25:03,250 --> 01:25:06,334
substantial time and are
clearly in an age bracket
1921
01:25:06,417 --> 01:25:09,834
they're not gonna go out and
commit serious crimes again,
1922
01:25:09,918 --> 01:25:12,292
getting parole.
In fact, when I was governor,
1923
01:25:12,375 --> 01:25:14,918
I pardoned a number of lifers.
1924
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,500
Individually, it would
depend on how they did,
1925
01:25:17,584 --> 01:25:20,250
what the degree of
evidence against them was.
1926
01:25:20,334 --> 01:25:23,250
I think some of them might
be very appropriate,
1927
01:25:23,334 --> 01:25:25,792
uh, uh, subjects for parole.
1928
01:25:25,876 --> 01:25:30,209
For me, what it comes down to
is the basic question.
1929
01:25:30,292 --> 01:25:34,250
Can you believe what the police
said happened that day?
1930
01:25:34,334 --> 01:25:37,000
To me, the opportunity
for a crossfire
1931
01:25:37,083 --> 01:25:38,667
created a significant
1932
01:25:38,751 --> 01:25:40,959
possibility that
James Ramp was killed
1933
01:25:41,042 --> 01:25:43,459
by a bullet that didn't
come from inside the house.
1934
01:25:43,542 --> 01:25:47,459
Wilson Goode:
It has never been
clear to me that
1935
01:25:47,542 --> 01:25:50,209
the police got
it right, that the...
1936
01:25:50,292 --> 01:25:52,000
district attorney got it right,
1937
01:25:52,083 --> 01:25:53,667
that the judges got it right,
1938
01:25:53,751 --> 01:25:56,292
that the sentences were proper.
1939
01:25:56,375 --> 01:25:58,375
And as I've looked at it
1940
01:25:58,459 --> 01:26:01,042
in hindsight over the years,
1941
01:26:01,125 --> 01:26:04,334
I am convinced that they
did not get it right.
1942
01:26:04,417 --> 01:26:07,459
That the Officer Ramp
1943
01:26:07,542 --> 01:26:10,292
died from friendly fire.
1944
01:26:10,375 --> 01:26:13,250
♪ ♪
1945
01:26:13,334 --> 01:26:16,751
I'm willing to do whatever.
If we, if that means--
1946
01:26:16,834 --> 01:26:18,876
set it up so that we can
get pardon papers up to them,
1947
01:26:18,959 --> 01:26:21,834
and they do that.
If that means that they--
if we set it up
1948
01:26:21,918 --> 01:26:24,918
where we try to get the DA's
office to help us out.
1949
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:27,792
If that means that
we hire a lawyer, 10 lawyers,
1950
01:26:27,876 --> 01:26:29,375
an investigator, whatever.
1951
01:26:29,459 --> 01:26:33,209
If that means that we just beat
the drum and try to get people
1952
01:26:33,292 --> 01:26:36,042
to, to wake up their neighbors
1953
01:26:36,125 --> 01:26:38,709
or wake up their, uh,
their, their congressmen
1954
01:26:38,792 --> 01:26:40,876
or senators or whatever.
1955
01:26:40,959 --> 01:26:43,000
I'm a guy who's saying
1956
01:26:43,083 --> 01:26:45,125
do whatever it takes,
1957
01:26:45,209 --> 01:26:47,209
do all that it takes
1958
01:26:47,292 --> 01:26:50,751
because those people that are
in prison are dying in there.
1959
01:26:51,918 --> 01:26:54,250
Phil didn't make it to 40.
1960
01:26:54,334 --> 01:26:57,834
The system-- Whatever
was happening with him,
1961
01:26:57,918 --> 01:27:01,125
or the people who was
feeding him that poison
1962
01:27:01,209 --> 01:27:03,500
up at them prisons
that they call water.
1963
01:27:03,584 --> 01:27:06,125
They're feeding him that
swill that they call food,
1964
01:27:06,209 --> 01:27:09,500
or that-- yeah, I mean,
like, that, that stuff...
1965
01:27:10,334 --> 01:27:12,417
you know... (sighs)
1966
01:27:12,500 --> 01:27:14,792
What can you do?
You just gotta keep on pushing.
1967
01:27:14,876 --> 01:27:17,292
Keep on exposing the system
for the wrongs in it.
1968
01:27:17,375 --> 01:27:19,083
If it takes 10 years,
if it takes 20 years.
1969
01:27:19,167 --> 01:27:22,709
It could take--
it could take every
single one of their lives.
1970
01:27:25,792 --> 01:27:28,876
♪ ♪
1971
01:28:10,209 --> 01:28:12,375
Crowd:
Larry! Larry! Larry!
1972
01:28:12,459 --> 01:28:14,918
(chanting continues)
1973
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,209
-(applause)
-Larry Krasner:
This is not
1974
01:28:17,292 --> 01:28:20,459
another story about
the history of kings and queens.
1975
01:28:20,542 --> 01:28:23,250
This is a story
about a movement.
1976
01:28:23,334 --> 01:28:25,751
-Man: That's right!
-(cheering)
1977
01:28:25,834 --> 01:28:29,542
And this is a movement
that is tired
1978
01:28:29,626 --> 01:28:32,250
of seeing a system that
has systematically picked
1979
01:28:32,334 --> 01:28:34,042
on poor people,
1980
01:28:34,125 --> 01:28:36,542
primarily Black
and brown people.
1981
01:28:36,626 --> 01:28:38,834
(cheering)
1982
01:28:38,918 --> 01:28:42,334
This is a mandate for a movement
1983
01:28:42,417 --> 01:28:44,417
that is loudly telling
1984
01:28:44,500 --> 01:28:47,626
government what it wants,
and what it wants
1985
01:28:47,709 --> 01:28:49,584
is criminal justice reform
1986
01:28:49,667 --> 01:28:52,334
in ways that require
transformational change
1987
01:28:52,417 --> 01:28:55,500
within the Philadelphia
District Attorney's office.
1988
01:28:55,584 --> 01:28:58,083
(cheering)
1989
01:28:58,167 --> 01:29:01,375
So, in terms of
the parole process,
1990
01:29:01,459 --> 01:29:05,292
Krasner's office,
the DA's office, can make--
1991
01:29:05,375 --> 01:29:09,083
can either oppose parole
or not oppose,
1992
01:29:09,167 --> 01:29:12,918
and so that recommendation is
significant in that aspect.
1993
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:16,375
And then also,
he's campaigned on this
1994
01:29:16,459 --> 01:29:20,751
open files policy,
and specifically around the...
1995
01:29:20,834 --> 01:29:22,667
Conviction Integrity Unit.
They call it
1996
01:29:22,751 --> 01:29:25,834
the Conviction Review Unit
in Philadelphia,
1997
01:29:25,918 --> 01:29:28,500
wherein they would--
1998
01:29:28,584 --> 01:29:30,918
the person who's been convicted
1999
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:32,876
is entitled to full access
2000
01:29:32,959 --> 01:29:37,167
to whatever's in the DA files,
and we know they...
2001
01:29:37,250 --> 01:29:39,459
there must be some
information that's
2002
01:29:39,542 --> 01:29:42,500
not been released to
the public in the MOVE cases,
2003
01:29:42,584 --> 01:29:45,500
and that the--
2004
01:29:45,584 --> 01:29:49,459
The police destroyed
the house and they...
2005
01:29:49,542 --> 01:29:52,167
covered up information,
covered up evidence,
2006
01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:55,000
and it's important that
we see what's in there,
2007
01:29:55,083 --> 01:29:58,626
so that's one way that
Krasner's office can
2008
01:29:58,709 --> 01:30:02,751
ex-- help expose
the truth on this
so that some sort of
2009
01:30:02,834 --> 01:30:04,959
just resolution
can come out of it.
2010
01:30:05,918 --> 01:30:09,000
♪ ♪
2011
01:30:21,334 --> 01:30:23,626
And it's written to Leo Dunn,
Chairman of the Pennsylvania
2012
01:30:23,709 --> 01:30:25,375
Board of Probation and Parole.
2013
01:30:25,459 --> 01:30:27,459
It says, "On behalf of District
Attorney Lawrence Krasner,
2014
01:30:27,542 --> 01:30:30,083
"I write to inform you and the
Board that I recommend that
2015
01:30:30,167 --> 01:30:32,292
"Ms. Debbie Sims Africa
be paroled.
2016
01:30:32,375 --> 01:30:34,834
"Ms. Sims Africa has been
in custody for 39 years
2017
01:30:34,918 --> 01:30:37,459
"and has not had a single
misconduct since 1995.
2018
01:30:37,542 --> 01:30:39,834
"Her prison record shows that
she has made use of her time
2019
01:30:39,918 --> 01:30:42,334
"in custody,
completing 2,113 hours
2020
01:30:42,417 --> 01:30:45,417
"of vocational training,
60 hours of academic training
2021
01:30:45,500 --> 01:30:47,751
"and attaining her
cosmetology license.
2022
01:30:47,834 --> 01:30:49,292
"She is now 61 years old.
2023
01:30:49,375 --> 01:30:51,542
"In short, I am confident that
she will not pose a threat
2024
01:30:51,626 --> 01:30:54,792
"to the Philadelphia community
to which she wishes to return.
2025
01:30:54,876 --> 01:30:57,500
"While Ms. Sims Africa's
crimes were very serious,
2026
01:30:57,584 --> 01:31:01,167
her continued incarceration
does not make our city safer."
2027
01:31:01,250 --> 01:31:04,167
And it's pretty much
the same thing for Janet
2028
01:31:04,250 --> 01:31:06,292
and for Janine.
2029
01:31:06,375 --> 01:31:07,876
♪ ♪
2030
01:31:07,959 --> 01:31:10,083
Interviewer:
Do you think they'll
be paroled in May?
2031
01:31:10,167 --> 01:31:13,334
No. I think the parole
board sees itself as
2032
01:31:13,417 --> 01:31:15,250
cops and part of
the brotherhood.
2033
01:31:15,334 --> 01:31:17,876
And they're carrying out,
2034
01:31:17,959 --> 01:31:21,000
um, their mission that
anybody convicted
2035
01:31:21,083 --> 01:31:22,876
of homicide of
a police officer
2036
01:31:22,959 --> 01:31:25,334
should be
eternally punished.
2037
01:31:25,417 --> 01:31:28,000
And that's what it's
been for nine years,
2038
01:31:28,083 --> 01:31:31,918
and I don't think a more
persuasive parole packet is
2039
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:37,125
going to change that
deeply entrenched attitude.
2040
01:31:37,209 --> 01:31:39,709
Which is why it's important
to build up the record
2041
01:31:39,792 --> 01:31:42,667
so as to establish that
the denial of parole
2042
01:31:42,751 --> 01:31:45,459
is violating their
constitutional rights.
2043
01:31:45,542 --> 01:31:48,709
♪ ♪
2044
01:31:59,584 --> 01:32:01,584
Interviewer:
Mike, hello?
2045
01:32:01,667 --> 01:32:04,751
Mike (on phone):
2046
01:32:59,959 --> 01:33:01,584
Interviewer: Yeah.
2047
01:33:14,334 --> 01:33:16,125
♪ ♪
2048
01:33:16,209 --> 01:33:18,667
Mom. How you doing?
2049
01:33:18,751 --> 01:33:22,542
-I'm alright, how you?
-(indistinct phone chatter)
2050
01:33:22,626 --> 01:33:25,292
Woman: Speaker phone.
2051
01:33:26,209 --> 01:33:28,042
Woman: Is it on speaker phone?
2052
01:33:31,792 --> 01:33:33,918
-You got your what?
-Woman: What?
2053
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:36,083
(indistinct)
2054
01:33:36,167 --> 01:33:38,042
-Her what?
-Hold up, hold up.
2055
01:33:38,125 --> 01:33:39,709
You got your green sheet?
2056
01:33:39,792 --> 01:33:42,542
-Woman: What's that?
-That's your, what?
2057
01:33:42,626 --> 01:33:43,876
Yeah?
2058
01:33:47,334 --> 01:33:51,167
(laughter, screaming)
2059
01:33:51,250 --> 01:33:53,626
Woman:
Oh, Debbie coming home!
2060
01:33:53,709 --> 01:33:56,375
(laughter)
2061
01:33:56,459 --> 01:33:58,876
Woman:
Long live John Africa!
2062
01:33:58,959 --> 01:34:01,709
(laughter, shouting continue)
2063
01:34:01,792 --> 01:34:04,209
Woman:
Josh is happy!
Look at Josh!
2064
01:34:04,292 --> 01:34:06,375
(cheering)
2065
01:34:06,459 --> 01:34:07,959
My mom said,
"Tell your dad...
2066
01:34:08,042 --> 01:34:10,876
-He can't help it.
-"to control hisself
2067
01:34:10,959 --> 01:34:12,417
"'cause...
2068
01:34:12,500 --> 01:34:15,292
being extremely happy can
cause heart attacks, too."
2069
01:34:15,375 --> 01:34:17,209
-Man: Want a strawberry?
-Woman: Is this for your mom?
2070
01:34:17,292 --> 01:34:18,792
I don't know!
2071
01:34:18,876 --> 01:34:20,500
♪ ♪
2072
01:34:20,584 --> 01:34:23,459
We're picking her up tomorrow,
7:00 in the morning.
2073
01:34:23,542 --> 01:34:25,667
Best news I've ever
heard in my life.
2074
01:34:25,751 --> 01:34:28,500
This is the best news that
I've ever heard in my life.
2075
01:34:29,542 --> 01:34:31,459
By far.
2076
01:34:31,542 --> 01:34:33,792
-No, she ain't wearing that.
-Woman: Then what should we get?
2077
01:34:33,876 --> 01:34:36,918
That one is perfect.
Look at it.
Robes are like shoes!
2078
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:38,709
They're universal.
They go with anything.
2079
01:34:38,792 --> 01:34:41,125
We don't have any time.
Get the damn thing,
let's get the...
2080
01:34:41,209 --> 01:34:44,417
-...heck outta here.
-Alright.
Calm yourself down.
2081
01:34:44,500 --> 01:34:46,626
-Interviewer: How do you feel?
-(Mike laughing)
2082
01:34:46,709 --> 01:34:48,250
Mike:
Beside myself.
2083
01:34:48,334 --> 01:34:49,417
I don't even know what to feel.
2084
01:34:49,500 --> 01:34:51,417
There's so many
things happening.
2085
01:34:51,500 --> 01:34:54,292
I can't even really
fully process it yet.
2086
01:34:56,125 --> 01:34:59,292
And I always say
I don't believe it
2087
01:34:59,375 --> 01:35:01,542
until she's in my car.
2088
01:35:03,167 --> 01:35:05,083
Forty years.
2089
01:35:05,167 --> 01:35:08,250
♪ ♪
2090
01:35:25,250 --> 01:35:28,626
♪ Tell the world
I'm coming... ♪
2091
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:30,209
Mm.
2092
01:35:30,292 --> 01:35:32,959
("Coming Home" by Diddy
playing on the radio)
2093
01:35:33,042 --> 01:35:35,626
♪ I never felt so strong ♪
2094
01:35:35,709 --> 01:35:38,584
♪ That feeling like there's
nothing I can't try ♪
2095
01:35:38,667 --> 01:35:39,918
(laughing)
2096
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,125
(singing with the radio):
Put your hands high!
2097
01:35:43,209 --> 01:35:44,250
Ah, man!
2098
01:35:44,334 --> 01:35:47,042
♪ If you're with me
put your hands high ♪
2099
01:35:47,125 --> 01:35:49,125
(indistinct)
2100
01:35:49,209 --> 01:35:52,626
(song continues)
2101
01:35:52,709 --> 01:35:56,042
I have her!
We have her!
2102
01:35:56,125 --> 01:35:59,584
The package is delivered!
She's in the car!
2103
01:35:59,667 --> 01:36:03,167
♪ ♪
2104
01:36:08,125 --> 01:36:11,167
Oh! Oh my God,
they're so-- Look at that!
2105
01:36:12,500 --> 01:36:14,125
♪
2106
01:36:15,417 --> 01:36:18,459
(cheering)
2107
01:36:19,375 --> 01:36:22,500
(indistinct chatter)
2108
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:27,125
(chatter continues)
2109
01:36:30,167 --> 01:36:32,459
It's nice and sunny
in here, too!
2110
01:36:32,542 --> 01:36:34,000
Oh my god!
2111
01:36:34,083 --> 01:36:36,334
Okay, I'm gonna cut the cake.
Hey, wait a minute.
2112
01:36:36,417 --> 01:36:38,751
I better not pick up that
knife on that camera.
2113
01:36:38,834 --> 01:36:39,918
(laughter)
2114
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:41,375
Mike:
You can hold the kitchen knife.
2115
01:36:41,459 --> 01:36:42,959
(laughter)
2116
01:36:43,042 --> 01:36:46,417
Debbie Africa:
I've been in prison
almost 40 years and, um,
2117
01:36:46,500 --> 01:36:48,334
I was released on Friday--
2118
01:36:48,417 --> 01:36:52,042
Saturday. Saturday, and, um,
2119
01:36:52,125 --> 01:36:54,042
I still don't think
I've actually caught up
2120
01:36:54,125 --> 01:36:57,209
with my emotions on how
happy it makes me feel,
2121
01:36:57,292 --> 01:36:59,709
seeing my family and being--
2122
01:36:59,792 --> 01:37:01,083
I should say
united with my son
2123
01:37:01,167 --> 01:37:02,584
because I've never
been with him.
2124
01:37:02,667 --> 01:37:05,083
I had him in my prison
cell when I was in, uh,
2125
01:37:05,167 --> 01:37:07,167
the House of Correction,
and this is the first time
2126
01:37:07,250 --> 01:37:11,000
we've ever been together
in all those years.
2127
01:37:11,083 --> 01:37:14,292
-Mike: Mm.
-(shutters snapping)
2128
01:37:15,584 --> 01:37:17,250
But-- (clears throat)
2129
01:37:19,209 --> 01:37:21,417
And although, if I felt,
2130
01:37:21,500 --> 01:37:23,209
you know, excited
and overwhelmed
and happy
2131
01:37:23,292 --> 01:37:26,459
to see everybody that came up
to pick me up on Saturday,
2132
01:37:26,542 --> 01:37:29,417
I still felt, you know,
2133
01:37:29,500 --> 01:37:31,626
incomplete,
and it just wasn't--
2134
01:37:31,709 --> 01:37:34,876
It shouldn't have been
the fact that I left prison,
2135
01:37:34,959 --> 01:37:37,292
and my sisters,
Janine and Janet, didn't
2136
01:37:37,375 --> 01:37:39,751
because we came in
on the same charges,
2137
01:37:39,834 --> 01:37:41,417
we were arraigned the same,
2138
01:37:41,500 --> 01:37:44,167
we, um, we had the same hits
2139
01:37:44,250 --> 01:37:46,542
and everything,
the same charges,
2140
01:37:46,626 --> 01:37:49,209
but when it came time
to get out of prison,
2141
01:37:49,292 --> 01:37:52,542
they didn't do that the same.
2142
01:37:52,626 --> 01:37:54,792
So, my name is
Mike Africa Jr.
2143
01:37:54,876 --> 01:37:57,667
As you know, this is my
mother right here and, um,
2144
01:37:58,792 --> 01:38:00,751
our family has
been experienced,
2145
01:38:00,834 --> 01:38:03,417
the MOVE organization
has experienced so much,
2146
01:38:03,500 --> 01:38:08,375
um, hate and anger
from the system and, um,
2147
01:38:08,459 --> 01:38:12,167
this is a small victory,
but it is a victory.
2148
01:38:12,250 --> 01:38:15,334
But I say a small victory
because our family
2149
01:38:15,417 --> 01:38:18,250
is still separated.
We're still incomplete.
2150
01:38:18,334 --> 01:38:20,459
My father is
still in prison.
2151
01:38:20,542 --> 01:38:22,876
He was in prison--
He was arrested
with my mother
2152
01:38:22,959 --> 01:38:26,542
and the rest of the MOVE Nine
and he's still in prison, too.
2153
01:38:26,626 --> 01:38:29,125
I talked to my dad today.
2154
01:38:29,209 --> 01:38:32,000
Every time, every time
something happen, my dad,
2155
01:38:32,083 --> 01:38:34,083
like, come up with
a theme song for it,
2156
01:38:34,167 --> 01:38:36,751
the experience that he's
experiencing at the time.
2157
01:38:36,834 --> 01:38:39,584
(laughs)
And he got this thing...
2158
01:38:40,500 --> 01:38:42,375
He says, um,
2159
01:38:42,459 --> 01:38:44,542
so for this one, he says,
2160
01:38:44,626 --> 01:38:46,667
he said, "Man."
He said,
2161
01:38:46,751 --> 01:38:48,167
"Tell your mom that I--
2162
01:38:48,250 --> 01:38:50,667
that I said I got a new song."
And I said, "What's that?"
2163
01:38:50,751 --> 01:38:52,667
He said,
"Hold on, I'm coming."
2164
01:38:52,751 --> 01:38:55,626
He comes up in
September 2018,
2165
01:38:55,709 --> 01:38:59,500
so the same process
we used for her,
we're gonna use for him.
2166
01:38:59,584 --> 01:39:02,417
But only difference is
we're gonna need more
2167
01:39:02,500 --> 01:39:03,876
support for him
2168
01:39:03,959 --> 01:39:06,918
because people see men
as different than women.
2169
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:09,876
So they-- he's gonna
need more support
2170
01:39:09,959 --> 01:39:11,918
than she, she needed.
2171
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,584
♪ ♪
2172
01:39:14,667 --> 01:39:17,626
-Interviewer: Do you
think he'll get out?
-Do I think my dad'll get out?
2173
01:39:19,125 --> 01:39:21,876
I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful.
2174
01:39:26,667 --> 01:39:29,876
I believe that if
we have the pressure,
2175
01:39:29,959 --> 01:39:32,125
the same kind of
pressure that we applied
2176
01:39:32,209 --> 01:39:34,709
for my mom, and if he can
2177
01:39:34,792 --> 01:39:37,500
understand the importance of...
2178
01:39:38,626 --> 01:39:40,751
the way of cooperation,
2179
01:39:41,959 --> 01:39:44,334
and (clears throat)--
and we can get
2180
01:39:44,417 --> 01:39:48,083
the letters that we need
to have written from people
2181
01:39:48,167 --> 01:39:49,792
and support,
2182
01:39:49,876 --> 01:39:52,500
showing their
support for him,
2183
01:39:52,584 --> 01:39:55,834
I think that we have
a really good shot.
2184
01:39:56,918 --> 01:39:58,417
Really good shot.
2185
01:39:58,500 --> 01:40:01,584
♪ ♪
2186
01:40:03,292 --> 01:40:06,417
Mike (on phone):
2187
01:40:53,667 --> 01:40:54,751
So he took the test.
2188
01:40:54,834 --> 01:40:56,459
It was all negative.
He passed the test.
2189
01:40:56,542 --> 01:41:00,125
Everything's good.
So now, it's just...
2190
01:41:00,209 --> 01:41:01,709
we're awaiting word.
2191
01:41:01,792 --> 01:41:04,083
♪ ♪
2192
01:41:04,167 --> 01:41:05,584
Imagine being like...
2193
01:41:06,667 --> 01:41:09,500
stuck in--
stuck in traffic.
2194
01:41:09,584 --> 01:41:13,083
Like, you're driving your car.
You're headed home from work
2195
01:41:13,167 --> 01:41:16,167
after working
a long 12-hour day,
2196
01:41:16,250 --> 01:41:18,375
breaking your back,
trying to get your jobs done
2197
01:41:18,459 --> 01:41:21,042
so that you can get your
check for your family.
2198
01:41:21,125 --> 01:41:23,292
And you get in the car,
2199
01:41:23,375 --> 01:41:25,000
drive it for about 10 minutes,
2200
01:41:25,083 --> 01:41:27,834
and then you get
stuck in traffic.
2201
01:41:27,918 --> 01:41:29,792
And you're just like stuck,
2202
01:41:29,876 --> 01:41:33,834
gridlock, parking lot.
That shit'll drive you crazy.
2203
01:41:33,918 --> 01:41:38,500
Like, what the fuck? Why are
these cars not moving, right?
2204
01:41:38,584 --> 01:41:41,000
Imagine being stuck
like that for 40 years.
2205
01:41:43,918 --> 01:41:45,542
Forty years.
2206
01:41:45,626 --> 01:41:48,709
♪ ♪
2207
01:42:08,918 --> 01:42:10,918
Mike Africa Sr.:
First time I seen Mike,
2208
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:13,751
he was maybe six months old.
2209
01:42:15,292 --> 01:42:18,876
At that time, down Holmesburg,
there was no contact visits,
2210
01:42:18,959 --> 01:42:21,000
so I was tapping on
the window. "Hey, man.
2211
01:42:21,083 --> 01:42:25,209
Hey, Mike. Hey, hey."
And he was just looking.
2212
01:42:25,292 --> 01:42:27,834
It was just before
we got sent upstate.
2213
01:42:27,918 --> 01:42:30,209
He's 3. I asked him
what his name was,
2214
01:42:30,292 --> 01:42:31,918
and he said Michael.
2215
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:34,375
I said, "You know
what my name is?"
He said, "Yeah, Michael."
2216
01:42:34,459 --> 01:42:37,334
I said, "You know why
we have the same name?"
I said,
2217
01:42:37,417 --> 01:42:40,459
"Because you're my son."
And he asked me,
2218
01:42:40,542 --> 01:42:43,167
"Can you sneak home
with us?" (laughs)
2219
01:42:43,250 --> 01:42:46,334
♪ ♪
2220
01:42:55,125 --> 01:42:57,751
It seemed that as soon
as he could comprehend
2221
01:42:57,834 --> 01:43:00,167
that they had held his parents
2222
01:43:00,250 --> 01:43:02,626
and that he could
2223
01:43:02,709 --> 01:43:05,083
do something about it,
and he tried.
2224
01:43:05,167 --> 01:43:08,292
(inaudible)
2225
01:43:13,542 --> 01:43:17,709
Yesterday was a culmination
of his efforts.
2226
01:43:21,834 --> 01:43:24,792
You know, as well as
a lot of people's, but.
2227
01:43:27,292 --> 01:43:31,000
(birds chirping)
2228
01:43:31,083 --> 01:43:33,292
You know, of course
I wanted to be free.
2229
01:43:56,626 --> 01:43:58,250
But, uh...
2230
01:43:59,417 --> 01:44:02,167
knowing what it
would mean to him,
2231
01:44:03,292 --> 01:44:05,667
to our family, you know...
2232
01:44:06,834 --> 01:44:09,542
knowing how much effort,
you know,
2233
01:44:09,626 --> 01:44:11,751
he put his whole...
2234
01:44:15,250 --> 01:44:17,417
Wait a minute, stop.
2235
01:44:22,500 --> 01:44:23,417
(sniffs)
2236
01:44:25,334 --> 01:44:27,500
He has such a good heart, man.
2237
01:44:29,042 --> 01:44:32,459
And I didn't want his
whole life to be...
2238
01:44:32,542 --> 01:44:34,918
♪ ♪
2239
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:36,083
um...
2240
01:44:41,167 --> 01:44:43,751
just something
that's wrapped up...
2241
01:44:46,125 --> 01:44:47,459
in...
2242
01:44:54,167 --> 01:44:56,334
trying to free us, man.
2243
01:44:57,042 --> 01:44:59,500
(inaudible)
2244
01:44:59,584 --> 01:45:02,167
I was so glad for
Mike yesterday.
2245
01:45:02,250 --> 01:45:04,876
You know, of course
I wanted to be free,
2246
01:45:04,959 --> 01:45:07,751
but I was so glad that
he didn't have that...
2247
01:45:08,959 --> 01:45:12,167
that burden on him anymore, man.
2248
01:45:12,250 --> 01:45:15,334
(inaudible)
2249
01:45:20,417 --> 01:45:23,500
(inaudible)
2250
01:45:29,751 --> 01:45:32,834
♪ ♪
2251
01:45:49,250 --> 01:45:51,626
I'm glad me and his mom is out,
you know,
2252
01:45:51,709 --> 01:45:54,083
not just because we're free,
2253
01:45:54,167 --> 01:45:56,792
but, you know, it freed him.
2254
01:45:56,876 --> 01:46:01,250
♪
2255
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:41,292
-It's finally here.
-Yep. And I'll tell you,
2256
01:46:41,375 --> 01:46:44,792
I can go through the rest of
my life like this, really.
2257
01:46:44,876 --> 01:46:47,417
-I bet you can!
-I ain't got that much
long to live though, so...
2258
01:46:47,500 --> 01:46:49,584
-What? Why would you say that?
-(laughing)
2259
01:46:49,667 --> 01:46:52,209
-Why-- Why would you say that?
-I'm just playing.
2260
01:46:52,292 --> 01:46:53,918
♪ ♪
2261
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:55,834
(laughing)
2262
01:46:58,167 --> 01:46:59,751
This cake has got
to be good.
2263
01:46:59,834 --> 01:47:01,751
Did you count
your 10 eggs?
2264
01:47:03,167 --> 01:47:05,375
I got at least 25.
Shit, that's a long time.
2265
01:47:05,459 --> 01:47:08,000
-Why would she say that?!
-(laughing)
2266
01:47:09,792 --> 01:47:12,500
Maybe he can still
teach me some things.
2267
01:47:12,584 --> 01:47:14,584
I'm sure I'll be teaching
him a lot of things.
2268
01:47:14,667 --> 01:47:17,000
Hey, Dad! Did you ever
see one of these before?
2269
01:47:17,083 --> 01:47:18,626
(laughing)
2270
01:47:20,751 --> 01:47:22,792
-(laughing)
-Mike: What
the hell are you doing?
2271
01:47:22,876 --> 01:47:25,792
-Are you trying to pose?
-I don't know.
2272
01:47:25,876 --> 01:47:27,500
Look at Grandma there.
2273
01:47:31,459 --> 01:47:32,959
We met when
we was about 14.
2274
01:47:33,042 --> 01:47:36,083
-Who wouldn't love her in
this hat? Look at this hat.
-(laughing)
2275
01:47:36,167 --> 01:47:37,959
Only a husband
who loves his wife
2276
01:47:38,042 --> 01:47:40,751
would love her in
this hat. (laughs)
2277
01:47:41,959 --> 01:47:46,000
Oh, um, well I remember
when I was born, right?
2278
01:47:46,083 --> 01:47:48,042
-You remember when
you was born? (laughs)
-I mean--
2279
01:47:48,125 --> 01:47:51,375
-No, I don't remember
when I was born.
-I know what you mean.
2280
01:47:51,459 --> 01:47:54,542
♪ ♪
2281
01:48:11,334 --> 01:48:13,667
♪ I told my mama
she was priceless ♪
2282
01:48:13,751 --> 01:48:16,250
♪ She told me she
wanted the good life ♪
2283
01:48:16,334 --> 01:48:18,667
♪ I told my mama
I'ma give you that ♪
2284
01:48:18,751 --> 01:48:21,250
♪ She said she wanna live
her best life, no strife ♪
2285
01:48:21,334 --> 01:48:23,667
♪ I said yo, Mama,
you deserve it all ♪
2286
01:48:23,751 --> 01:48:26,167
♪ She said she really
didn't want much ♪
2287
01:48:26,250 --> 01:48:29,083
♪ I asked her what you want
for me to do? She said ♪
2288
01:48:29,167 --> 01:48:31,584
♪ You gave me what I want
because I'm home with you ♪
2289
01:48:31,667 --> 01:48:33,667
♪ Hey! Fly, baby... ♪
2290
01:48:33,751 --> 01:48:37,292
Forty-two years of this thing,
and I said...
2291
01:48:38,667 --> 01:48:40,250
I hated to see
2292
01:48:40,334 --> 01:48:44,083
-them still there,
you know? But...
-Right.
2293
01:48:44,167 --> 01:48:46,834
-It's good to be home.
It's good to be home.
-Mm-hmm.
2294
01:48:46,918 --> 01:48:50,125
It's good to be with
family, with friends.
2295
01:48:51,626 --> 01:48:53,751
And put that, that activity,
2296
01:48:53,834 --> 01:48:56,959
(laughs) that prison
activity behind me.
2297
01:48:57,042 --> 01:48:59,417
-I'm glad. I'm ready.
-(indistinct)
2298
01:48:59,500 --> 01:49:01,667
You'll never be
back at Dallas.
2299
01:49:01,751 --> 01:49:03,834
Ah! I told, I told, uh,
2300
01:49:03,918 --> 01:49:07,209
Chaplain Hoke, I said,
"I'll be back
to free somebody else."