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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
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♪ ♪
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Andrew Rossi: As someone
working in politics in DC,
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what do you think
about fake news?
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Jack Burkman: I would use
fake news as a weapon
'cause it's out there.
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The Germans used chemical
weapons, the British used
chemical weapons.
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What are you gonna do?
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It doesn't mean you like
chemical weapons.
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It means you do
what you have to do.
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I've tried some fake news.
I don't even remember.
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We've tried some things.
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Yeah, there are terrible,
negative potential
consequences, but so what?
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That's what I say.
So what?
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What's the big deal?
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We've always taken the position
in this country,
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let it all come out,
let the people judge.
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Despite the dangers.
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Rossi: But how can the people
judge fake stories and lies?
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Or do you think we're
in a post-truth moment?
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Burkman:
Oh, I don't know.
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I mean, what is truth?
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You study philosophy,
there is no reality.
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There is only perception.
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So when you say,
are we in a post-truth moment,
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most philosophers
on all sides would tell you
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there was never any such thing
as truth to begin with.
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪
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(distant jet engine whining)
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(voices chattering)
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(keyboard clattering)
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Elizabeth Williamson:
There is this ecosystem
that's growing now
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where people are actually
confusing real and fake news,
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especially
if they see it online.
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This "post-truth" culture
that we're living in
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has real costs to the people
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who are victimized by those
who come up
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with these theories and themes.
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People have suffered
because of false news
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that's being spread online.
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Molly McKew:
The summer of 2015
was really the first sign
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that there was
something happening
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in our information space
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that we weren't paying
enough attention to.
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There was a two-month long
military exercise
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that was occurring in the
American Southwest, Jade Helm,
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and this conspiracy
emerged around it
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that President Obama
was going to round up
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political dissidents
and put them in camps in Texas.
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♪ ♪
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Troy Michalik: Fake news.
What do I think about it?
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A very old saying
comes to mind.
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Don't believe
none of what you hear
and only half of what you see.
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I find myself there a lot.
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I don't know what's real
and what's fake.
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Here in Bastrop,
it's a very close-knit,
rural community.
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Typical small-town America,
hometown value structure.
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In 2015, back during
the Obama administration,
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there was
a huge amount of concern
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about distrust of
the national government.
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And once people found out
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that there was gonna be
a major military operation
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in Bastrop County,
a lot of people were,
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you know, making
puzzle pieces fit together.
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Mark Lastoria:
We're going to be conducting
the training exercise
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safely and courteously.
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We're not gonna interfere
with their privacy
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or their rights with this.
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The army says it's an
eight-week training exercise
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in a realistic setting,
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but they're not saying much
beyond that.
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Paul Pape: We began to get
inquiries from people.
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Why are you allowing
the military
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to come into Bastrop County?
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What's gonna happen,
and why are they coming here?
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And then, all sorts of
conspiracies were put together.
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The truth is that
it's an exercise,
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um, for enacting martial law
in this country.
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This is conditioning for
martial law and a takeover.
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And then I tuned
into another show.
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They're saying the same thing,
"I guess Alex Jones was right."
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There's been an awakening.
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We happened to be
kind of the clearinghouse
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of a lot of conversation.
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People would come here,
it's like the pub,
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to talk about it.
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Nina Roach:
Somebody shares a story,
somebody else commiserates,
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and then everyone else
jumps on the bandwagon.
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I think it has a lot to do
with, you know,
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having a degree in Google.
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Whether it's vaccines
cause autism,
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Masonic lizard people
running the world,
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Jade Helm, we want so hard
to believe even in conspiracies
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that things actually exist,
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that there is
an underlying deal,
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that we have some knowledge
that other people don't.
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And we want to believe all that,
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um, but it's... sometimes,
it's just not true.
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I will be headed
to Bastrop, Texas,
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to report on the Jade Helm
'15 military exercise.
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I don't trust
the corporate media.
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I don't want somebody else
to tell me what's going on.
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I want to go
find out for myself.
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In my view, Jade Helm was
a psychological operation
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to gauge the response.
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Will the people, you know,
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be complacent
when this exercise happens?
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Will they push back?
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We're gonna go inside.
See, this is what
the corporate media does.
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They stand across the street,
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and we go inside.
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(laughs)
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I can't believe we're in here.
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I believe in
personal responsibility.
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If somebody reads
an article and they go
crazy because of that,
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because whatever issues
they got going on,
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like, I don't know how I can,
you know,
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be held responsible for that.
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Pape:
There are many who made
some pretty wild claims.
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And social media is the devil.
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So in my interest
in open government
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and in transparency, I said,
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well, let's just have
a town hall meeting
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and explain this to everybody.
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Colonel Lastoria came
and we asked him
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to explain to everyone
who was interested
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what exactly the operation
was going to entail.
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Lastoria: Jade Helm is simply
just a challenging,
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eight-week training exercise
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for unconventional warfare
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and it's an exercise
that will be conducted
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throughout Texas, New Mexico,
Arizona, and Utah.
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Man (speaking):
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(cheers and applause)
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♪ ♪
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Michalik: Hysteria is
a little strong of a word,
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but there were pockets
of hysteria.
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Pape (speaking):
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Lastoria (speaking):
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♪ ♪
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Ross Ramsey:
You had people that were
otherwise normal people,
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in the Jade Helm thing,
believing that there was
an underground
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network of tunnels that
connected all the Walmarts
in Texas.
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Broze:
These are giant facilities
that can house people.
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So people started speculating
that, okay,
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these Walmarts are getting
ready to be turned into
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concentration camps,
detention centers,
what have you.
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Today, Governor Greg Abbott
is choosing to assign
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the Texas State Guard
to monitor the operation.
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Newswoman: Commander Abbott
states his reasoning is...
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Ramsey: You get a part of
the citizenry worked up
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and the governor reacted to it
in a way that looked like
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the state government
was taking this seriously.
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The relatively quick jump
of that information
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from conspiracy blogs
to town hall meetings
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to the governor's office,
I think,
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was of great concern,
certainly to the military
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and to our
intelligence services.
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Recently, Michael Hayden,
the former CIA
and NSA director,
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talked about this,
very clearly linking
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the disinformation campaign
around Jade Helm
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to Russian
information activities
targeting the United States.
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Hayden: Russian bots,
Russian trolls,
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combining with the American
alt-right media
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convinced a non-trivial portion
of the Texas population
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that it was an attempt
by the Obama administration
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to round up
political opponents.
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Pape: It was interesting to me
that someone would tie
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what went on here
in Bastrop County
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to this worldwide concern
about Russian interference
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in American politics,
but you know what, um,
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it's a small world.
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Abbott: In Texas,
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we don't compare our economy
to other states.
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We compare our economy
to other countries.
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(cheering)
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The Texas economy
is larger than Canada,
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it's larger than Australia.
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00:10:05,584 --> 00:10:07,125
And get this,
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the Texas economy is even larger
than the economy of Russia.
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(cheering)
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That makes me
more powerful than Putin.
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(cheering)
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McKew: That was a test.
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And what all of it showed was
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we are in a weaponized
information environment.
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So we're at the point now
where I don't think people
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can distinguish
fact from truth anymore
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00:10:39,834 --> 00:10:41,292
or people are starting
to make their own truth,
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and honestly,
I'm okay with that.
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♪ ♪
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Craig Silverman:
I have about eight
different daily digests
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that come into my inbox
every morning
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00:11:00,584 --> 00:11:03,000
from different Facebook pages
and other things
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00:11:03,083 --> 00:11:04,500
that we've started
tracking over time.
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I scan hyper-partisan stuff
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00:11:07,292 --> 00:11:09,918
from people who tend to
propagate misinformation.
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And it's basically just like
starting your morning
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00:11:14,292 --> 00:11:16,918
bathing in Internet garbage,
is pretty much the deal.
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00:11:18,584 --> 00:11:22,542
I have been looking at
false stories since 2014.
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There were a handful
of journalists and researchers
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00:11:26,626 --> 00:11:28,542
who were interested
in this stuff, but it wasn't
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what was the main focus
of the world.
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And in the span of a few months,
that completely changed,
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00:11:33,792 --> 00:11:36,667
at the end of 2016,
with Trump's victory.
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What we found was
the core key time
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before Election Day,
that fake stories
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got way more engagement
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than the real news stories
about the election.
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And as soon as
everybody, journalists,
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politicians, researchers
started scratching the surface,
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they were like, holy crap,
this is, look at what's here.
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And then, right after
the election, we had Pizzagate.
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00:12:01,709 --> 00:12:03,542
Somebody walking into
a DC pizzeria
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with a rifle and firing it off,
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00:12:05,709 --> 00:12:08,250
and realizing that
that was a result of this person
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consuming conspiracies
and misinformation,
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00:12:10,626 --> 00:12:12,876
I think that freaked
a lot of people out.
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♪ ♪
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James Alefantis:
My restaurant,
I try to be like,
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00:12:27,792 --> 00:12:30,500
everyone's invited,
just have a good time.
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00:12:30,584 --> 00:12:33,626
Play ping-pong,
eat some great food.
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00:12:34,792 --> 00:12:36,876
Families and kids are
the people who like it the most
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00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:39,876
because it's like,
it's fun, they can run around.
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♪ ♪
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Keith Alexander:
Comet Ping Pong is
a fixture here in Washington.
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00:12:47,918 --> 00:12:49,876
Everyone knows this restaurant.
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00:12:49,959 --> 00:12:52,584
People come from other parts
of Washington
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00:12:52,667 --> 00:12:53,918
to have pizza here.
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00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,584
We do have some
politically connected people
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that come in here, and that
is just something that happens.
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00:12:59,209 --> 00:13:02,125
I mean,
I have CNN news anchors
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00:13:02,209 --> 00:13:03,918
who have been eating here
for years.
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00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,167
But what Comet is about is,
this is a safe space
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00:13:07,250 --> 00:13:10,292
for people to come in
and be themselves.
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00:13:10,375 --> 00:13:15,918
We host shows
for local bands, queer bands.
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00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,459
I think that one of
the nice things about Comet
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00:13:18,542 --> 00:13:21,334
is that there's space here
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00:13:21,417 --> 00:13:24,209
for... queer folks
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00:13:24,292 --> 00:13:26,417
to be part of the identity
of the restaurant.
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00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:30,709
Alefantis: I had this party
for the 10-year anniversary.
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00:13:30,792 --> 00:13:32,751
Everyone was invited,
and we had
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00:13:32,834 --> 00:13:34,709
the attorney general
of the United States
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00:13:34,792 --> 00:13:37,042
and like, congresspeople
and like, kids,
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00:13:37,125 --> 00:13:38,751
and musicians and artists.
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00:13:38,834 --> 00:13:42,250
And that was in the end
of October 2016.
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00:13:42,334 --> 00:13:44,459
I looked at it one moment
and I just thought,
249
00:13:44,542 --> 00:13:47,584
wow, like, we've really
created something here.
250
00:13:47,667 --> 00:13:49,375
Like, this place is special.
251
00:13:49,459 --> 00:13:52,626
Uh, and then quickly after that,
we were slammed with this
252
00:13:52,709 --> 00:13:57,000
year-plus-long,
endless conspiracy theory.
253
00:13:58,250 --> 00:14:00,292
John Podesta,
who's Hillary Clinton's
254
00:14:00,375 --> 00:14:02,918
campaign chairman,
his emails are hacked,
255
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,792
and they get uploaded online.
256
00:14:04,876 --> 00:14:08,417
And a lot of
conspiracy theorists
start crawling through them.
257
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:11,167
And based on these emails,
they spin up
258
00:14:11,250 --> 00:14:14,626
this crazy conspiracy theory
about Comet Ping Pong.
259
00:14:15,792 --> 00:14:17,125
Will Sommer:
People on pro-Trump forums
260
00:14:17,209 --> 00:14:19,500
start going through
John Podesta's emails,
261
00:14:19,584 --> 00:14:21,042
and they see these
references to pizza.
262
00:14:21,125 --> 00:14:23,042
Now, these are pretty
innocuous references.
263
00:14:23,125 --> 00:14:24,876
Do we need to get pizza
for the campaign volunteers?
264
00:14:24,959 --> 00:14:26,417
That kind of stuff.
265
00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:28,834
And perhaps the first example
we've ever seen
266
00:14:28,918 --> 00:14:32,125
of the creation of Pizzagate
is on a Reddit post.
267
00:14:32,209 --> 00:14:34,792
Someone saying, I think we need
to be looking at these clues
268
00:14:34,876 --> 00:14:36,334
for all this pizza stuff.
269
00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:39,292
And really, from there,
that's where it took off.
270
00:14:39,375 --> 00:14:42,292
Silverman:
So inside the emails,
they connect a lot of things.
271
00:14:42,375 --> 00:14:44,834
CP, cheese pizza.
People dissect it.
272
00:14:44,918 --> 00:14:47,042
They think maybe it stands
for child pornography.
273
00:14:47,125 --> 00:14:49,584
Sommer:
Various people on Reddit,
sites like 4chan
274
00:14:49,667 --> 00:14:52,125
become convinced that pizza
is slang for,
275
00:14:52,209 --> 00:14:54,334
essentially, children to rape.
276
00:14:54,417 --> 00:14:56,083
And so then,
they see the exchanges
277
00:14:56,167 --> 00:14:58,375
with James Alefantis
and John Podesta.
278
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,250
I had emailed
with John Podesta
279
00:15:01,334 --> 00:15:02,959
about hosting a pizza party
280
00:15:03,042 --> 00:15:06,083
fundraiser cookout
at someone's house.
281
00:15:06,167 --> 00:15:07,834
Sommer: And so,
people become convinced
282
00:15:07,918 --> 00:15:10,918
that Comet Ping Pong is like,
this child rape dungeon
283
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,167
in the basement.
284
00:15:12,250 --> 00:15:13,918
McKew: This was supported
by George Soros
285
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,751
and John Podesta
and Hillary Clinton
286
00:15:15,834 --> 00:15:17,876
and like, everybody was
somehow connected to this
287
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,834
child sex trafficking ring
at a pizza parlor
288
00:15:19,918 --> 00:15:22,626
that you could dial up,
and say the right food words,
289
00:15:22,709 --> 00:15:24,834
and get your order of children.
290
00:15:24,918 --> 00:15:26,500
Sommer: It's just days
before the election
291
00:15:26,584 --> 00:15:28,083
and so, tensions are high.
292
00:15:28,167 --> 00:15:29,834
It certainly looked like
Hillary Clinton was gonna win,
293
00:15:29,918 --> 00:15:32,334
and so, Trump people
are very feverish,
294
00:15:32,417 --> 00:15:34,292
and this was just blowing up.
295
00:15:34,375 --> 00:15:36,667
So I said, jeez,
all these people are just
going so wild about it.
296
00:15:36,751 --> 00:15:39,334
I wonder if anything's
happening at Comet.
297
00:15:39,417 --> 00:15:40,792
So I called him up.
298
00:15:40,876 --> 00:15:43,876
Alefantis: I got a call from
a guy named Will Sommer
299
00:15:43,959 --> 00:15:45,792
and he, at the time,
was working
300
00:15:45,876 --> 00:15:47,334
at the Washington City Paper
301
00:15:47,417 --> 00:15:50,459
and asked me if I had
read about this
302
00:15:50,542 --> 00:15:53,459
or know about this
online conspiracy theory
303
00:15:53,542 --> 00:15:55,417
that Hillary Clinton and I
304
00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:57,792
were human trafficking
from Comet Ping Pong.
305
00:15:57,876 --> 00:16:00,167
And I was like,
306
00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:02,209
I don't know
what you're talking about.
307
00:16:02,292 --> 00:16:04,709
And I make a comment like,
308
00:16:04,792 --> 00:16:06,792
everyone is really up
about this election,
309
00:16:06,876 --> 00:16:08,167
and passions are high,
310
00:16:08,250 --> 00:16:11,375
and I'm sure that it'll go away
in a couple of days.
311
00:16:11,459 --> 00:16:13,876
The election happens,
and then actually what happened
312
00:16:13,959 --> 00:16:16,000
is in the days subsequent
to the election,
313
00:16:16,292 --> 00:16:19,876
these online attacks
started escalating
314
00:16:19,959 --> 00:16:21,250
and increasing in volume.
315
00:16:21,334 --> 00:16:25,417
We started to get messages
onto, like, our Yelp page
316
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:27,125
for the restaurant.
317
00:16:27,209 --> 00:16:31,125
Reviews that were really weird
and weird Facebook things.
318
00:16:31,209 --> 00:16:34,918
I had put pictures
of my godchildren on Instagram.
319
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,292
Now, obviously,
I would know better
320
00:16:36,375 --> 00:16:39,000
than to put anything anywhere,
but these images
321
00:16:39,083 --> 00:16:41,459
were stolen from my Instagram,
taken and put up
322
00:16:41,542 --> 00:16:45,167
as some kind of evidence of
nefarious activities going on.
323
00:16:45,250 --> 00:16:47,000
Woman: I just want you
to ask yourself,
324
00:16:47,083 --> 00:16:48,459
why does this guy,
325
00:16:48,542 --> 00:16:50,500
I think he looks
like he's in his late 30's,
326
00:16:50,584 --> 00:16:53,083
why is this
coming-on-middle-age guy
327
00:16:53,167 --> 00:16:55,751
have a photo of a random kid
drinking milk?
328
00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:58,584
Pizzagate, like so many
conspiracy theories,
329
00:16:58,667 --> 00:17:00,918
it starts to echo on 4chan.
330
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,584
Kathleen Hall Jamieson:
There are spaces that
drive more extreme content.
331
00:17:04,667 --> 00:17:06,000
I would say 4chan is--
332
00:17:06,083 --> 00:17:08,375
no, a bathroom
may be too polite.
333
00:17:08,459 --> 00:17:12,876
Think of the rest stop
on the interstate highway.
334
00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:15,417
4chan is a dirty restroom.
335
00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:17,542
There's no toilet paper
on the toilet roll.
336
00:17:17,626 --> 00:17:19,876
The sink has not
been cleaned in months.
337
00:17:19,959 --> 00:17:21,876
And think about
the kinds of things
338
00:17:21,959 --> 00:17:25,042
you saw on
bathroom walls there.
339
00:17:25,125 --> 00:17:26,459
Sommer:
It builds on the Internet,
and then it starts
340
00:17:26,542 --> 00:17:28,959
getting picked up by various
right-wing pundits.
341
00:17:29,042 --> 00:17:31,292
You know, Alex Jones starts
promoting it all the time.
342
00:17:31,375 --> 00:17:34,292
Pizzagate is real.
The question is how real is it?
343
00:17:34,375 --> 00:17:35,751
What is it?
Something's going on.
344
00:17:35,834 --> 00:17:37,250
Something's being covered up.
345
00:17:37,334 --> 00:17:39,000
It needs to be investigated.
To just call it fake news...
346
00:17:39,083 --> 00:17:41,959
Sommer: InfoWars becomes
the Pizzagate network
for a bit.
347
00:17:42,042 --> 00:17:44,250
Male YouTuber: The menu
from Comet Ping Pong.
348
00:17:44,334 --> 00:17:47,000
Notice the symbol
of the ping-pong paddles
349
00:17:47,083 --> 00:17:50,500
and its clever resemblance
to the FBI documents'
350
00:17:50,584 --> 00:17:52,834
symbol for ChildLove.
351
00:17:52,918 --> 00:17:55,751
Alefantis: There were so many
different entry points
352
00:17:55,834 --> 00:17:57,584
for this specific attack.
353
00:17:57,667 --> 00:18:02,250
I'm trafficking or abusing
these children is one.
354
00:18:02,334 --> 00:18:04,709
The other was that I
or Hillary Clinton
355
00:18:04,792 --> 00:18:08,000
or the Podestas were kidnapping
and selling these children
356
00:18:08,083 --> 00:18:10,000
to retain our immense wealth.
357
00:18:10,083 --> 00:18:12,334
There was some that,
this idea that
358
00:18:12,417 --> 00:18:15,000
because I'm gay, I obviously
must be molesting children
359
00:18:15,083 --> 00:18:20,042
or something, which is
a historical perspective
on gayness.
360
00:18:20,125 --> 00:18:22,459
Saperstein:
So many of the calls
we've received,
361
00:18:22,542 --> 00:18:25,834
people saying, why do you
like raping children?
362
00:18:25,918 --> 00:18:29,083
And being like,
I know you're all gay.
363
00:18:29,751 --> 00:18:32,792
And that one is necessarily
related to the other.
364
00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:35,751
A lot of what fuels
misinformation
365
00:18:35,834 --> 00:18:39,125
and what we call
"fake news" is hate.
366
00:18:39,209 --> 00:18:42,417
It is essentially
some group of people
367
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:44,792
either misunderstanding
368
00:18:44,876 --> 00:18:47,334
or having some sort
of violent feelings
369
00:18:47,417 --> 00:18:49,083
about another group of people.
370
00:18:49,167 --> 00:18:52,876
And in the case of Comet,
those who decided
371
00:18:52,959 --> 00:18:58,042
to target James found
a little bit of hate and malice
372
00:18:58,125 --> 00:19:01,542
in the piece of Comet
that is welcoming
373
00:19:01,626 --> 00:19:05,042
to the LGBTQ community.
374
00:19:05,125 --> 00:19:07,709
Saperstein: More and more,
we started receiving
phone calls
375
00:19:07,792 --> 00:19:10,834
that ran the gambit of being
376
00:19:10,918 --> 00:19:13,500
just prank calls,
I'd almost say,
377
00:19:13,584 --> 00:19:15,584
where people were like,
can I get a--
378
00:19:15,667 --> 00:19:18,459
some kind of special pizza,
some ridiculous name--
379
00:19:18,542 --> 00:19:21,167
something that meant to them
something about pedophilia.
380
00:19:21,250 --> 00:19:23,000
It was code words
381
00:19:23,083 --> 00:19:25,209
to just
straight-up death threats.
382
00:19:25,292 --> 00:19:27,334
People saying,
gonna kill you,
383
00:19:27,417 --> 00:19:31,000
or we know what you're doing
and we're gonna stop it,
384
00:19:31,083 --> 00:19:32,876
and you're all gonna die.
385
00:19:32,959 --> 00:19:35,751
We know where you live.
We are coming to the restaurant.
386
00:19:35,834 --> 00:19:37,918
We're coming to get you.
387
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,334
You know,
you need to kill yourself.
388
00:19:39,417 --> 00:19:42,250
There was a specific one
where someone said,
389
00:19:42,334 --> 00:19:45,042
I'm gonna come to your
restaurant with a machine gun
390
00:19:45,125 --> 00:19:46,792
and kill everyone inside,
and like,
391
00:19:46,876 --> 00:19:49,709
cut your guts out and watch you
die on the floor or whatever.
392
00:19:49,792 --> 00:19:52,542
I was like, this is scary.
393
00:19:52,626 --> 00:19:54,500
Reh: What I was doing
every single night
394
00:19:54,584 --> 00:19:57,709
was going online
and checking Reddit,
checking 4chan.
395
00:19:57,792 --> 00:20:01,083
Reddit had a new subreddit
396
00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:03,542
that had been started
specifically for Pizzagate.
397
00:20:03,626 --> 00:20:07,042
It went from, within a week,
zero followers
398
00:20:07,125 --> 00:20:13,083
to 22,000 people who
were subscribed to it,
1,500 of which
399
00:20:13,167 --> 00:20:15,000
were active
at any given point,
400
00:20:15,083 --> 00:20:17,459
growing and growing
and growing and growing.
401
00:20:17,542 --> 00:20:20,709
And even if they only spend
five minutes a day
402
00:20:20,792 --> 00:20:24,500
trying to destroy my life,
22,000 people
403
00:20:24,584 --> 00:20:26,334
have more
five minutes a day
404
00:20:26,417 --> 00:20:28,417
than I have 24 hours
in my day.
405
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:31,459
Jack Posobiec: There it is.
There it is, guys.
406
00:20:31,542 --> 00:20:34,459
So we're, we're gonna go in,
we're gonna infiltrate
407
00:20:34,542 --> 00:20:36,250
Comet Pizza.
408
00:20:36,334 --> 00:20:37,792
Reh:
I got a phone call
from someone who said,
409
00:20:37,876 --> 00:20:40,167
hey, I just want to let you know
that I'm a friend of yours,
410
00:20:40,250 --> 00:20:43,459
and a guy named
Jack Posobiec is in there,
411
00:20:43,542 --> 00:20:45,334
filming you right now.
412
00:20:45,417 --> 00:20:46,584
I-I turned it off.
413
00:20:46,667 --> 00:20:49,751
Reh:
I-I understand
that, to you,
414
00:20:49,834 --> 00:20:51,584
this is maybe like a game.
415
00:20:51,667 --> 00:20:54,334
But considering
that I myself and my staff
416
00:20:54,417 --> 00:20:57,542
-receive death threats--
-It's not a game.
417
00:20:57,626 --> 00:20:58,918
It's not anything.
418
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,834
Are you, are you reading
these things
419
00:21:00,918 --> 00:21:02,500
that people are writing?
420
00:21:02,584 --> 00:21:04,709
Posobiec:
I can't control what somebody
posts on the Internet.
421
00:21:04,792 --> 00:21:07,834
I read several posts
on Reddit that said
422
00:21:07,918 --> 00:21:09,375
I've had enough of this.
423
00:21:09,459 --> 00:21:12,000
If I don't post back here
in three hours,
424
00:21:12,083 --> 00:21:13,500
it's because I've been killed.
425
00:21:13,584 --> 00:21:16,334
I'm grabbing my shotgun
and going into Comet.
426
00:21:18,125 --> 00:21:21,167
Alefantis: We were
in real deep fear,
427
00:21:21,250 --> 00:21:23,000
like, serious fear.
428
00:21:23,083 --> 00:21:26,876
These threats were so violent
that I, I sort of, like,
429
00:21:26,959 --> 00:21:28,626
knew something would happen.
430
00:21:42,876 --> 00:21:45,209
Sommer: So it culminates
with Edgar Maddison Welch
431
00:21:45,292 --> 00:21:46,959
driving up from North Carolina.
432
00:21:47,042 --> 00:21:48,792
He's one of the people who's
been consuming all this stuff,
433
00:21:48,876 --> 00:21:51,709
and he's become convinced
that there really is
a child rape dungeon
434
00:21:51,792 --> 00:21:53,125
in the basement
of Comet Ping Pong.
435
00:21:53,209 --> 00:21:55,209
He wanted to come up here
and save these children.
436
00:21:55,292 --> 00:21:57,167
He's a father himself.
He had two young daughters.
437
00:21:57,250 --> 00:22:01,500
He was a classic InfoWars
listener, follower.
438
00:22:01,584 --> 00:22:03,792
You know, people want me
to look into it. I may just
have to take off a week
439
00:22:03,876 --> 00:22:07,000
and just only research this
and actually go to where
these places are and stuff.
440
00:22:07,083 --> 00:22:09,542
In fact, I'm looking at...
getting on a plane.
441
00:22:09,626 --> 00:22:12,167
I can't just say something
and not see it for myself.
442
00:22:12,250 --> 00:22:16,250
They go to these pizza places,
there's like, satanic art
everywhere.
443
00:22:16,334 --> 00:22:18,918
Williamson:
Part of the pitch is,
get out there
444
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,209
and help us unearth the truth.
445
00:22:21,292 --> 00:22:23,918
It turns people
into a type of vigilante
446
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,876
in which they're out there
seeking what they think
is justice.
447
00:22:27,959 --> 00:22:32,250
In the case of Pizzagate,
a guy puts children in danger
448
00:22:32,334 --> 00:22:35,751
because he thinks
he's rescuing children.
449
00:22:37,542 --> 00:22:40,876
Alefantis: We had
this restaurant filled
with families eating,
450
00:22:40,959 --> 00:22:45,417
Sunday afternoon,
and Edgar Maddison Welch
451
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:50,125
walks in this front door with
a loaded AR-15 assault rifle,
452
00:22:50,792 --> 00:22:52,167
fully exposed,
453
00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:55,375
also with, like, a handgun
and a knife, it turned out,
454
00:22:55,459 --> 00:22:58,751
and like, walks through
this restaurant.
455
00:22:58,834 --> 00:23:00,626
♪ ♪
456
00:23:00,709 --> 00:23:04,959
My young staff, who had been
under online attack,
457
00:23:05,042 --> 00:23:07,292
they immediately see him,
458
00:23:07,375 --> 00:23:09,459
call the police and...
459
00:23:11,375 --> 00:23:13,459
(voice breaking):
and go, like, table-to-table,
460
00:23:13,542 --> 00:23:15,417
telling each table
that they need to go,
461
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,626
like leave the building, and...
462
00:23:17,709 --> 00:23:20,667
So each table... (sniffles)
463
00:23:20,751 --> 00:23:23,375
...the customers are like,
oh, no, we're fine.
464
00:23:23,459 --> 00:23:25,042
Like, we're here to support you.
465
00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:28,792
It's okay, like...
we'll just keep eating
or whatever.
466
00:23:28,876 --> 00:23:32,834
And these kids are like,
no, you don't understand,
there's a guy here with a gun.
467
00:23:32,918 --> 00:23:36,959
-(police radio chattering)
-So they evacuate the building.
468
00:23:37,042 --> 00:23:39,459
Policewoman:
This isn't a joke!
Get out of the block!
469
00:23:39,542 --> 00:23:41,542
Alefantis: Police have
shut down the street,
470
00:23:41,626 --> 00:23:45,834
and riot, SWAT teams
are closing the building
and the street,
471
00:23:45,918 --> 00:23:51,792
and leaves this gunman alone
to search the restaurant
or do whatever he's gonna do.
472
00:23:51,876 --> 00:23:54,834
Reh:
The first thing that he did
was immediately
473
00:23:54,918 --> 00:23:56,751
walk towards the back room.
474
00:23:56,834 --> 00:23:59,709
I'm not sure what he thought
he was gonna find back here,
475
00:23:59,792 --> 00:24:02,292
but I think that he thought
that this was the place
476
00:24:02,375 --> 00:24:03,792
where Hillary Clinton would be.
477
00:24:03,876 --> 00:24:06,751
Or he was gonna walk back there
and find John Podesta
478
00:24:06,834 --> 00:24:09,125
or George Soros or someone.
479
00:24:09,209 --> 00:24:13,459
Pulling things off of the wall,
trying to pry apart the stage,
480
00:24:13,542 --> 00:24:15,918
flipping ping-pong tables over.
481
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,250
He was trying to break
anything that he thought
482
00:24:18,334 --> 00:24:20,083
was obscuring his view.
483
00:24:20,167 --> 00:24:22,459
But he came over here,
484
00:24:22,542 --> 00:24:27,125
to the only locked door
in the entire restaurant,
485
00:24:27,209 --> 00:24:29,876
which is our employee closet.
486
00:24:29,959 --> 00:24:32,125
He shot through the door,
487
00:24:32,209 --> 00:24:35,542
which is a pretty dirty
488
00:24:35,626 --> 00:24:39,334
but innocuous employee closet,
489
00:24:39,417 --> 00:24:41,792
um, houses our coats.
490
00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:45,167
Alexander: Realized there were
no children being held here,
491
00:24:45,250 --> 00:24:48,209
came out of the restaurant,
came out with his hands up,
492
00:24:48,292 --> 00:24:50,000
to a sea of police.
493
00:24:50,083 --> 00:24:53,375
-Officer 1: Hands! Hands!
-Officer 2: We got a guy
coming out right now.
494
00:24:54,417 --> 00:24:55,959
Officer 1:
Stand up!
495
00:24:56,042 --> 00:24:57,500
-Officer 2: We got
a white male subject...
-Officer 1: Hands up--
496
00:24:57,584 --> 00:24:59,876
...coming out of the location,
hands in the air.
497
00:24:59,959 --> 00:25:01,709
Officer 2:
Don't nobody move!
Don't nobody move!
498
00:25:01,792 --> 00:25:04,167
Stay where you are!
Bring him towards you!
499
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:07,542
I got him, Mike. Keep going!
Keep coming to my voice!
500
00:25:07,626 --> 00:25:10,459
Do not turn around!
Stop, stop!
501
00:25:10,542 --> 00:25:11,918
Get down on your knees!
502
00:25:13,459 --> 00:25:16,167
Get on the ground!
Lay prone on the ground!
503
00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:20,959
♪ ♪
504
00:25:25,667 --> 00:25:28,167
-Officer 1: Sir,
do you work there?
-Welch (speaks):
505
00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:30,709
-Officer 2: Who else is
at the location right now?
-Welch (speaks):
506
00:25:30,792 --> 00:25:33,542
-Officer 1: Nobody else?
-Officer 2: What were
you doing in the location?
507
00:25:33,626 --> 00:25:35,292
(Welch speaks):
508
00:25:36,083 --> 00:25:37,751
Officer 2 (speaks):
509
00:25:37,834 --> 00:25:39,000
Welch (speaks):
510
00:25:39,083 --> 00:25:40,375
-Officer 2: Regarding what?
-Welch (speaks):
511
00:25:40,459 --> 00:25:42,500
Officer 1 (speaks):
512
00:25:42,584 --> 00:25:44,751
♪ ♪
513
00:25:44,834 --> 00:25:47,626
Alexander: This could
have been a lot worse.
514
00:25:47,709 --> 00:25:48,959
Someone could have gotten shot.
515
00:25:49,042 --> 00:25:50,667
Anything could have
happened here.
516
00:25:50,751 --> 00:25:53,500
So no one--
This was something that
517
00:25:53,584 --> 00:25:56,125
even some of the most
seasoned crime reporters
518
00:25:56,209 --> 00:25:57,918
had never seen before:
519
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,125
That someone came
in armed for battle,
520
00:26:01,209 --> 00:26:03,125
came in on a suicide mission,
521
00:26:03,209 --> 00:26:04,876
either knowing
he was going to jail
522
00:26:04,959 --> 00:26:06,584
or might end up dead,
523
00:26:06,667 --> 00:26:08,125
but was willing to do that
524
00:26:08,209 --> 00:26:12,250
based off of fake,
erroneous news stories.
525
00:26:12,334 --> 00:26:15,417
♪ ♪
526
00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:22,083
Silverman: Today,
the term "fake news"
527
00:26:22,167 --> 00:26:23,751
has become totally weaponized
528
00:26:23,834 --> 00:26:27,083
and misused to the point
that I think it's
kind of meaningless.
529
00:26:27,167 --> 00:26:29,250
We saw back in January 2017,
530
00:26:29,334 --> 00:26:31,667
when President Trump stood up
at the news conference
531
00:26:31,751 --> 00:26:34,167
and called out CNN
and called it fake news.
532
00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:36,834
From there, we started to see
the term kind of
533
00:26:36,918 --> 00:26:38,751
just fall apart in terms of use.
534
00:26:38,834 --> 00:26:40,667
Reporter: Mr. President-elect,
can you give us a question?
535
00:26:40,751 --> 00:26:42,667
-Trump: Don't be rude.
-You're attacking us.
Can you give us a question?
536
00:26:42,751 --> 00:26:44,876
Don't be ru-- No, I'm not
gonna give you a question.
537
00:26:44,959 --> 00:26:46,959
-I'm not gonna
give you a question.
-Can you state categorically--
538
00:26:47,042 --> 00:26:48,918
-You are fake news.
-Sir--
539
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,876
Silverman:
Where we're at right now is
540
00:26:50,959 --> 00:26:53,125
fake news has
most effectively become
541
00:26:53,209 --> 00:26:54,792
what Donald Trump
has defined it as,
542
00:26:54,876 --> 00:26:56,709
which is media
that's critical of him.
543
00:26:56,792 --> 00:26:59,876
If you want the fake news media
544
00:26:59,959 --> 00:27:04,250
-to finally investigate...
-(crowd booing)
545
00:27:04,334 --> 00:27:06,292
Patrick Svitek:
When he talks
about fake news,
546
00:27:06,375 --> 00:27:09,125
that is one of the biggest
applause lines that he gets
at these rallies.
547
00:27:09,209 --> 00:27:10,876
Usually at that point,
that's when the whole crowd
548
00:27:10,959 --> 00:27:12,542
turns to the media pen and boos.
549
00:27:12,626 --> 00:27:16,125
(booing loudly)
550
00:27:16,209 --> 00:27:19,334
(booing continuing)
551
00:27:19,417 --> 00:27:21,584
As a journalist, obviously,
it's disappointing
552
00:27:21,667 --> 00:27:23,959
to see that kind of vitriol
directed at the press.
553
00:27:24,042 --> 00:27:27,417
(booing)
554
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:30,334
Don't worry, I don't
like them either, okay?
555
00:27:30,417 --> 00:27:34,292
(crowd chanting):
556
00:27:34,375 --> 00:27:36,500
(chanting continuing)
557
00:27:37,918 --> 00:27:40,042
♪ ♪
558
00:27:41,083 --> 00:27:42,834
John Campbell:
CNN is in the dumper.
559
00:27:42,918 --> 00:27:45,667
It's become synonymous
with fake news.
560
00:27:45,751 --> 00:27:47,292
Nobody believes it anymore.
561
00:27:47,375 --> 00:27:49,500
We expect politicians to be, uh,
562
00:27:49,584 --> 00:27:52,125
fast and loose with the truth,
depending on the day.
563
00:27:52,209 --> 00:27:53,751
We know that.
It's a car salesman.
564
00:27:53,834 --> 00:27:56,918
But we expect journalists,
newsmen to tell the truth.
565
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,125
That's what y'all--
You're just supposed
to report the facts.
566
00:28:00,209 --> 00:28:01,918
And, uh, no, I didn't
vote for Obama.
567
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,250
Give me one thing he did
to help me as a Texan,
568
00:28:04,334 --> 00:28:06,417
heterosexual, a married man.
569
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:08,626
Did he cut--
lower my taxes? Nope.
570
00:28:08,709 --> 00:28:10,876
Did he increase
my freedoms? Nope.
571
00:28:10,959 --> 00:28:12,709
Did he help my white,
blonde-haired, blue-eyed kid
572
00:28:12,792 --> 00:28:15,751
go to college? Nope.
573
00:28:15,834 --> 00:28:19,042
Donald Trump's trying
to stop my culture
down here from changing.
574
00:28:20,083 --> 00:28:21,209
Look around.
575
00:28:21,292 --> 00:28:24,209
His style of populism
is working.
576
00:28:24,292 --> 00:28:26,250
We're gonna give him
the benefit of the doubt.
577
00:28:26,334 --> 00:28:28,709
Why? Because
he's given us results.
578
00:28:28,792 --> 00:28:30,542
But y'all don't report that.
579
00:28:30,626 --> 00:28:33,083
The media is the public enemy.
580
00:28:33,918 --> 00:28:36,459
Let me show you the one
I really like I bought tonight.
581
00:28:36,542 --> 00:28:38,209
This sums it up.
582
00:28:41,167 --> 00:28:43,584
That is money well spent
right there.
583
00:28:44,459 --> 00:28:47,125
Because it's fake news,
they don't report the truth.
584
00:28:47,209 --> 00:28:48,459
Truth's reality.
585
00:28:48,542 --> 00:28:50,834
You want to start living right,
report the truth.
586
00:28:50,918 --> 00:28:52,751
That's all we ask for.
587
00:28:52,834 --> 00:28:54,667
Thank you.
588
00:28:54,751 --> 00:28:57,626
♪ ♪
589
00:28:57,709 --> 00:29:01,417
Jerome Corsi: Well, I think
"fake news" has become
a very politicized term
590
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:05,876
that is being used
to censor conservatives.
591
00:29:05,959 --> 00:29:08,542
Uh, evidently,
because it's published
592
00:29:08,626 --> 00:29:10,042
in the New York Times,
you believe it.
593
00:29:10,125 --> 00:29:12,542
If you do that,
you're believing either
594
00:29:12,626 --> 00:29:15,459
government, uh, propaganda
595
00:29:15,542 --> 00:29:19,125
or mainstream
media-determined truth.
596
00:29:19,209 --> 00:29:22,500
And just because the
New York Times published it,
doesn't mean it's true.
597
00:29:24,834 --> 00:29:27,000
Sommer: Jerome Corsi's this
longtime Republican operative,
598
00:29:27,083 --> 00:29:29,667
and really,
one of the modern creators
599
00:29:29,751 --> 00:29:33,250
of this Internet
and media-fueled
smear campaign.
600
00:29:33,334 --> 00:29:36,042
In the 2004 election,
he cowrote this book
601
00:29:36,125 --> 00:29:38,459
about John Kerry's behavior
on this swiftboat,
602
00:29:38,542 --> 00:29:40,292
promoting that idea
that John Kerry,
603
00:29:40,375 --> 00:29:42,000
who was this Vietnam war hero,
604
00:29:42,083 --> 00:29:43,792
was actually like
this big coward,
605
00:29:43,876 --> 00:29:46,792
you know, promoting this
really baseless claim.
606
00:29:46,876 --> 00:29:49,417
So now, to swiftboat someone,
since 2004,
607
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:52,250
means to create a lie
and propagate it
608
00:29:52,334 --> 00:29:54,751
in the idea that
it's gonna torpedo them,
609
00:29:54,834 --> 00:29:57,250
and Jerome Corsi
was the creator of that.
610
00:29:57,334 --> 00:30:00,375
Cut to 2008, 2009,
Jerome Corsi is probably
611
00:30:00,459 --> 00:30:03,500
the most prominent face of
the "birther" conspiracy theory,
612
00:30:03,584 --> 00:30:06,876
so the idea that Barack Obama
was born in Kenya.
613
00:30:06,959 --> 00:30:09,292
It's like all of the giant
conspiracy theories
614
00:30:09,375 --> 00:30:12,751
of the past decade or two,
Jerome Corsi has jumped on,
615
00:30:12,834 --> 00:30:16,584
and either he created them or
he really got into pushing them.
616
00:30:17,167 --> 00:30:20,500
And what's so nice
about this is just with a
617
00:30:20,584 --> 00:30:24,000
laptop computer,
a fairly simple camera,
618
00:30:24,083 --> 00:30:28,918
it gives the average person
the opportunity to establish
a voice and to be heard.
619
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,042
♪ ♪
620
00:30:32,792 --> 00:30:35,709
I didn't look at CNN
and say, I want to do that.
621
00:30:35,792 --> 00:30:38,083
I didn't go to Fox News
and say, here's my résumé,
622
00:30:38,167 --> 00:30:40,250
I want to put on a suit
and after Tucker Carlson,
623
00:30:40,334 --> 00:30:42,500
I want to sit there
and read my news.
624
00:30:42,584 --> 00:30:44,709
I didn't say that. I didn't
go to the New York Times
625
00:30:44,792 --> 00:30:46,000
and say, I want to write
stories for you.
626
00:30:46,083 --> 00:30:47,542
I looked at all of those things
and I said,
627
00:30:47,626 --> 00:30:49,500
you guys are all fucked up.
628
00:30:49,584 --> 00:30:53,667
Whatever it is that
you think is journalism,
I think is fucked up.
629
00:30:54,334 --> 00:30:55,876
So this is how I'm gonna do it.
630
00:30:55,959 --> 00:30:57,834
Wake up, everyone.
631
00:30:57,918 --> 00:31:00,626
If you are forwarding articles
from Newsweek
632
00:31:00,709 --> 00:31:02,709
from the New York Times,
633
00:31:02,792 --> 00:31:06,000
you have become
a zombie propagandist.
634
00:31:06,083 --> 00:31:09,334
I find it intriguing
that even investigating it,
635
00:31:09,417 --> 00:31:12,167
questioning it,
becoming a forensic examiner
636
00:31:12,250 --> 00:31:15,375
of evidence, you get ridiculed.
637
00:31:15,459 --> 00:31:17,959
You are a conspiracy theorist.
638
00:31:18,042 --> 00:31:21,417
Yochai Benkler:
You can disagree on all sorts
of interpretations
639
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:26,626
about a particular subject,
but not when there's falsehood.
640
00:31:28,542 --> 00:31:31,834
When we study false news
and disinformation,
641
00:31:31,918 --> 00:31:34,042
what we see repeatedly
642
00:31:34,125 --> 00:31:38,292
is things that, in theory,
could be just interpretation,
643
00:31:38,375 --> 00:31:45,042
get made up of
discrete bits of narrative
that are distinctly false.
644
00:31:45,125 --> 00:31:47,459
It's very clear
that what you have here
645
00:31:47,542 --> 00:31:52,042
is a propagandist effort
to try to achieve a result.
646
00:31:52,125 --> 00:31:54,959
So for example,
the Seth Rich case.
647
00:31:56,667 --> 00:31:59,584
David Folkenflik:
Seth Rich was a young guy.
648
00:31:59,667 --> 00:32:02,876
He's working for the
Democratic National Committee,
649
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:06,292
and he's killed,
650
00:32:06,375 --> 00:32:08,792
in July of 2016.
651
00:32:10,918 --> 00:32:12,667
Police in Washington have said
it appears to have been
652
00:32:12,751 --> 00:32:15,709
a botched armed robbery,
but they don't know for sure
what happened.
653
00:32:15,792 --> 00:32:19,709
♪ ♪
654
00:32:25,834 --> 00:32:27,459
Alexander: There were
a lot of robberies
655
00:32:27,542 --> 00:32:29,959
in this neighborhood
around that time.
656
00:32:30,042 --> 00:32:32,459
People were speculating, well,
what kind of a robbery was it?
657
00:32:32,542 --> 00:32:34,083
Because his wallet was
still on him,
658
00:32:34,167 --> 00:32:36,083
his watch was still there.
659
00:32:36,167 --> 00:32:39,292
But when a gun goes off,
that's gonna draw attention.
660
00:32:39,375 --> 00:32:41,292
So his assailant's
not gonna stick around
661
00:32:41,375 --> 00:32:43,959
and try to get those valuables.
They're gonna take off.
662
00:32:44,042 --> 00:32:46,125
And that's what happened
in this case.
663
00:32:48,751 --> 00:32:51,042
Very early on,
he wanted to do stuff
664
00:32:51,125 --> 00:32:54,834
that was involved
in trying to make
things better.
665
00:32:54,918 --> 00:32:57,375
There was six and a half
years between us.
666
00:32:57,459 --> 00:32:59,000
Hundred percent,
he was very much,
667
00:32:59,083 --> 00:33:01,417
you know,
the annoying little brother.
668
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:03,709
Then as we got older,
we got a lot closer
669
00:33:03,792 --> 00:33:06,709
just when we both got
to the same spot in life.
670
00:33:06,792 --> 00:33:08,292
If he had problems,
he'd talk to me.
671
00:33:08,375 --> 00:33:09,667
If I had problems,
I'd talk to him.
672
00:33:09,751 --> 00:33:11,042
So, I mean, we were
each other's best friends
673
00:33:11,125 --> 00:33:13,334
and, you know,
always there for each other.
674
00:33:13,417 --> 00:33:15,584
He was the person that I knew
I could always count on,
675
00:33:15,667 --> 00:33:19,000
and he was that not just to me
but also to his friends.
676
00:33:20,042 --> 00:33:22,167
His over-the-top
sense of humor.
677
00:33:22,250 --> 00:33:25,042
If you were having a bad day,
no matter what,
678
00:33:25,125 --> 00:33:27,584
if it became his mission
to make you have a good day,
679
00:33:27,667 --> 00:33:29,876
just give in now.
680
00:33:29,959 --> 00:33:32,375
♪ ♪
681
00:33:32,459 --> 00:33:34,375
I had come back early
from a vacation,
682
00:33:34,459 --> 00:33:37,667
and we had been playing
phone tag since I had got back.
683
00:33:38,209 --> 00:33:42,751
Obviously, that is something
that I realize I would regret.
684
00:33:45,626 --> 00:33:48,250
The next morning,
my mom called me.
685
00:33:48,334 --> 00:33:50,375
I remember her telling me
that, um...
686
00:33:50,459 --> 00:33:53,918
uh, he had been shot and killed
late in the night.
687
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,459
I remember, you know,
collapsing on the floor
688
00:33:55,542 --> 00:33:57,834
of our townhome at the time,
689
00:33:57,918 --> 00:34:01,417
um, just in sheer disbelief.
690
00:34:02,709 --> 00:34:04,751
Mike Gottlieb: In the political
environment that existed
691
00:34:04,834 --> 00:34:07,334
in the summer of 2016,
692
00:34:07,417 --> 00:34:09,751
having a DNC staffer
that was murdered,
693
00:34:09,834 --> 00:34:11,334
to a certain group of people,
694
00:34:11,417 --> 00:34:13,417
just could not have been
a coincidence.
695
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:15,209
Somebody hacked
into the DNC computer,
696
00:34:15,292 --> 00:34:17,626
and WikiLeaks
just recently published
697
00:34:17,709 --> 00:34:20,000
a bunch of these emails,
and there are a number
698
00:34:20,083 --> 00:34:22,542
of emails in which
senior officials
699
00:34:22,626 --> 00:34:24,542
of the
Democratic National Committee
700
00:34:24,626 --> 00:34:28,584
can be seen conspiring
against Bernie Sanders.
701
00:34:28,667 --> 00:34:32,417
Seth Rich's murder follows
the leak of emails
702
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:33,834
from the Democratic Party.
703
00:34:33,918 --> 00:34:38,042
And his death very quickly
is linked to the leak.
704
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:41,125
The idea is that Seth Rich
himself was somehow
705
00:34:41,209 --> 00:34:42,959
in contact with WikiLeaks,
706
00:34:43,042 --> 00:34:47,209
objected to Hillary Clinton's
assertion of control
over the Democratic Party.
707
00:34:47,292 --> 00:34:50,500
He was outraged
and released these emails,
708
00:34:50,584 --> 00:34:54,500
and Hillary Clinton somehow
had Seth Rich murdered.
709
00:34:54,584 --> 00:34:56,876
I want to be clear,
this is baseless.
710
00:34:56,959 --> 00:34:59,334
But certainly,
Julian Assange of WikiLeaks
711
00:34:59,417 --> 00:35:01,334
stoked that, uh, speculation.
712
00:35:01,417 --> 00:35:04,334
Assange: Our whistleblower
has gone to significant efforts
713
00:35:04,417 --> 00:35:07,167
to get us material,
and often very
significant risks.
714
00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:10,417
He's a 27-year-old
that works for the DNC,
715
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:12,042
who was shot
in the back, murdered.
716
00:35:12,125 --> 00:35:14,709
That was just a robbery,
I believe, wasn't it?
717
00:35:14,792 --> 00:35:17,792
-No, there's no finding--
-Reporter: Was he one
of your sources, then?
718
00:35:17,876 --> 00:35:21,459
-We don't comment
on who our sources are--
-Then why make the suggestion?
719
00:35:21,542 --> 00:35:23,459
Julian Assange,
it's convenient for him
720
00:35:23,542 --> 00:35:25,542
because it means he's
not kind of a patsy for
the Russian government.
721
00:35:25,626 --> 00:35:28,709
It means, you know, there was
this brave whistleblower
who gave him the stuff.
722
00:35:28,792 --> 00:35:31,209
♪ ♪
723
00:35:33,083 --> 00:35:35,417
Darcy: Julian Assange
was the catalyst.
724
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:38,709
And then, online, on websites
and message boards
725
00:35:38,792 --> 00:35:42,250
like 4chan or Reddit,
even Twitter, it blew up.
726
00:35:42,334 --> 00:35:44,500
The Seth Rich thing
is really getting
suspicious now.
727
00:35:44,584 --> 00:35:45,834
This was an assassination.
728
00:35:45,918 --> 00:35:49,125
This kid was murdered
for political reasons.
729
00:35:49,209 --> 00:35:51,000
I think they want
to do damage control
730
00:35:51,083 --> 00:35:53,125
with the DNC
and the Clinton Crime Unit.
731
00:35:53,209 --> 00:35:55,125
This is exactly
the sort of killing
732
00:35:55,209 --> 00:35:56,667
you would expect
from the Clintons.
733
00:35:56,751 --> 00:35:58,167
The guy got fucking murdered
734
00:35:58,250 --> 00:36:01,209
after he leaked
information to WikiLeaks.
735
00:36:01,292 --> 00:36:03,584
Scott Shane: There have
been stories in which
736
00:36:03,667 --> 00:36:05,709
activists in the United States
737
00:36:05,792 --> 00:36:09,751
join forces with the Russians
to push the same stories.
738
00:36:09,834 --> 00:36:11,751
And you know,
the Seth Rich story
739
00:36:11,834 --> 00:36:15,083
is probably
the leading example of that.
740
00:36:15,167 --> 00:36:17,417
They were both eager to deny
741
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:20,417
that the Russians
were behind the hacking
742
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:22,250
of the
Democratic National Committee.
743
00:36:22,334 --> 00:36:25,042
Seth had access
to a lot of the IT.
744
00:36:25,125 --> 00:36:27,918
I mean, he had the access.
He had a lot of stuff.
745
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,751
The question is,
we don't know
what he did with it.
746
00:36:29,834 --> 00:36:32,500
Frankly, we don't know if Seth
was a good guy or a bad guy.
747
00:36:32,584 --> 00:36:33,918
We don't know
if he was a leaker.
748
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,125
Um, we think he was a leaker.
We just don't know.
749
00:36:36,209 --> 00:36:38,709
There's so many
unanswered questions.
750
00:36:38,792 --> 00:36:42,751
(barking)
751
00:36:42,834 --> 00:36:44,792
Sommer:
Jack Burkman is one of
the premier hucksters
752
00:36:44,876 --> 00:36:46,542
who has latched
onto this tragedy.
753
00:36:49,167 --> 00:36:51,542
We'll show you in here.
Here's the office over here.
754
00:36:53,042 --> 00:36:56,000
This is, this is it.
This is the nerve center, man.
755
00:36:56,751 --> 00:36:58,459
So we'll come down here.
756
00:36:59,167 --> 00:37:01,709
-This is the doggy's room.
-(dog barks)
757
00:37:02,375 --> 00:37:03,959
Fake news is a weapon,
758
00:37:04,042 --> 00:37:06,125
and, uh, we've even tried
to use fake news.
759
00:37:06,209 --> 00:37:08,125
Fake news is a good way
to drive a story.
760
00:37:08,209 --> 00:37:09,334
You know, you put up a site
761
00:37:09,417 --> 00:37:11,667
instead of New York 1,
New York 2.
762
00:37:11,751 --> 00:37:13,417
And people believe it,
and they reprint it,
763
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:14,918
and it gets reprinted.
764
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,751
It can be an effective tool
in driving a story, you know?
765
00:37:17,834 --> 00:37:21,209
People use it.
It's become a tool of war.
766
00:37:21,292 --> 00:37:24,459
It's like, uh, it's World War I
and its chemical weapons.
767
00:37:24,542 --> 00:37:26,876
People are using them,
so you use them.
768
00:37:26,959 --> 00:37:28,209
You know?
769
00:37:28,292 --> 00:37:31,417
That's how I'd--
that might be the analogy.
770
00:37:33,709 --> 00:37:36,292
Sommer: Jack Burkman,
who's a Washington lobbyist,
771
00:37:36,375 --> 00:37:38,959
he sends out some legendary
press releases in Washington.
772
00:37:39,042 --> 00:37:42,292
Reporters are always saying,
did you see the latest
Jack Burkman press release?
773
00:37:42,375 --> 00:37:44,083
Because they're so absurd.
774
00:37:44,167 --> 00:37:46,500
In the past, has attached
himself to other dubious
causes,
775
00:37:46,584 --> 00:37:49,167
including, he tried to get gay
players banned from the NFL.
776
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:51,500
There are four theories:
One is what the police say.
777
00:37:51,584 --> 00:37:53,626
It was done in the street,
street thugs.
778
00:37:53,709 --> 00:37:55,209
B, the Russians did it.
779
00:37:55,292 --> 00:37:57,125
C, Hillary and the Democrats
did it.
780
00:37:57,209 --> 00:37:59,209
D is kind of everything else.
781
00:37:59,292 --> 00:38:02,167
We're conducting
our own investigation.
782
00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:03,542
He's doing
all these crazy things.
783
00:38:03,626 --> 00:38:06,334
Like, he's doing a reenactment
of the murder.
784
00:38:06,417 --> 00:38:08,459
He teams up with some
undergraduate students
785
00:38:08,542 --> 00:38:10,125
at George Washington
University,
786
00:38:10,209 --> 00:38:12,292
and they come up with
the idea that the most
obvious explanation
787
00:38:12,375 --> 00:38:15,417
for Seth Rich's death is
that a hit squad killed him.
I mean, it's absurd.
788
00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:18,375
You have a dead DNC staffer
that can't defend himself.
789
00:38:18,459 --> 00:38:22,792
It's a good opportunity to make
statements and, you know,
try to use them.
790
00:38:22,876 --> 00:38:25,709
And when we ran
sentence analyses of the media,
791
00:38:25,792 --> 00:38:27,918
you really see
how Seth Rich pops up
792
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,751
as an interference pattern
on the right,
793
00:38:30,834 --> 00:38:33,417
when everybody else is talking
Russia and impeachment.
794
00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:39,918
DNC leaks came from the inside.
795
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,500
It wasn't hackers
from the outside at all.
796
00:38:42,584 --> 00:38:45,500
And of course,
Julian Assange has
specifically denied
797
00:38:45,584 --> 00:38:47,083
receiving
any information
from the Russians.
798
00:38:47,167 --> 00:38:48,584
Corsi: Precisely.
799
00:38:48,667 --> 00:38:50,375
This whole Russian
collusion narrative
800
00:38:50,459 --> 00:38:54,083
which is, I think, actually
quite a foolish narrative,
801
00:38:54,167 --> 00:38:57,584
that the emails were stolen
by Russia from the DNC,
802
00:38:57,667 --> 00:39:00,542
these are premises
that have not been validated.
803
00:39:00,626 --> 00:39:03,292
Yet the left runs with them
as if they were gospel truth.
804
00:39:03,375 --> 00:39:05,250
We know that by January,
you had the entire
805
00:39:05,334 --> 00:39:08,751
intelligence community on board,
saying that it was the Russians.
806
00:39:08,834 --> 00:39:10,209
You know that
the Mueller indictments
807
00:39:10,292 --> 00:39:11,959
have very specifically indicted
808
00:39:12,042 --> 00:39:14,375
both Russians responsible
for the trolls
809
00:39:14,459 --> 00:39:16,167
and Russians responsible
for the hacking.
810
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:19,584
And when people say,
well, we don't absolutely
know with certainty.
811
00:39:19,667 --> 00:39:21,959
What do they want?
Do they want to be
in St. Petersburg,
812
00:39:22,042 --> 00:39:25,918
watching every Russian troll
engaging in every act?
813
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,125
I mean, there are levels
of proof that no reasonable
person would ask for.
814
00:39:29,209 --> 00:39:30,584
It was the Russians.
815
00:39:32,667 --> 00:39:34,667
Folkenflik: The speculation
that you saw online
816
00:39:34,751 --> 00:39:38,167
was given fuel by places
like Gateway Pundit,
817
00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:39,834
InfoWars, Alex Jones,
818
00:39:39,918 --> 00:39:42,542
but you also see it pop up
on Fox News.
819
00:39:42,626 --> 00:39:44,292
Newswoman:
Back with a Fox News alert:
820
00:39:44,375 --> 00:39:46,709
a brand-new bombshell
in the murder
821
00:39:46,792 --> 00:39:49,083
of that guy right there,
a DNC staffer.
822
00:39:49,167 --> 00:39:51,459
An investigator now says
Seth Rich
823
00:39:51,542 --> 00:39:53,626
was in contact with WikiLeaks.
824
00:39:53,709 --> 00:39:55,500
Benkler:
Fox News, on the website,
825
00:39:55,584 --> 00:39:57,292
publishes a story
826
00:39:57,375 --> 00:40:00,042
that there's new evidence
that Seth Rich
827
00:40:00,125 --> 00:40:02,417
was, in fact,
the source of the leaks.
828
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,584
And what you see
is the whole network,
829
00:40:04,667 --> 00:40:08,918
from the local affiliate in DC
through the main cable channel,
830
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,167
mobilized around this story.
831
00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:14,250
Newly discovered evidence shows
that the 27-year-old,
832
00:40:14,334 --> 00:40:18,792
former DNC employee was,
in fact, communicating
with WikiLeaks.
833
00:40:18,876 --> 00:40:20,375
Benkler:
And we can really trace
834
00:40:20,459 --> 00:40:23,500
how a rumor
that starts on Reddit
835
00:40:23,584 --> 00:40:25,626
ultimately makes its way
to Hannity,
836
00:40:25,709 --> 00:40:27,918
and you can just
literally follow,
837
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,500
from the first to the last,
this propaganda pipeline.
838
00:40:31,584 --> 00:40:36,292
We see the Russians.
We see the alt-right activists.
839
00:40:36,375 --> 00:40:39,209
We see the commercial
clickbait sites.
840
00:40:39,292 --> 00:40:41,918
And then you have,
at the very top
841
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,959
a set of propagandists
842
00:40:44,042 --> 00:40:46,167
whose commercial interest
and political interest
843
00:40:46,250 --> 00:40:50,292
are aligned to go out,
look for all these stories,
844
00:40:50,375 --> 00:40:54,000
and bring them to the
mainstream of Fox News.
845
00:40:54,083 --> 00:40:56,417
If it was true that Seth Rich
gave WikiLeaks
846
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:58,500
the DNC emails,
wouldn't that blow
847
00:40:58,584 --> 00:41:02,667
the whole Russia collusion
narrative that the media
848
00:41:02,751 --> 00:41:04,751
has been pushing
out of the water?
849
00:41:04,834 --> 00:41:06,542
I mean, Fox does
some good reporting.
850
00:41:06,626 --> 00:41:09,042
There are good, honorable
reporters there that do
good reporting,
851
00:41:09,125 --> 00:41:13,250
but Sean Hannity is essentially
a consultant for the president.
852
00:41:13,334 --> 00:41:16,375
By the way, all those people
in the back are fake news.
853
00:41:16,459 --> 00:41:19,000
(cheers and applause)
854
00:41:20,667 --> 00:41:22,417
Goldman:
Spewing the president's views
855
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:24,667
to his huge audience on Fox,
856
00:41:24,751 --> 00:41:26,209
and it's just like
hook, line, and sinker.
857
00:41:26,292 --> 00:41:28,334
If Sean Hannity says it,
it must be true.
858
00:41:28,417 --> 00:41:31,918
David Lazer: And, of course,
Fox News is in the attention
business,
859
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,834
and so, there's
a sort of fake news
laundering
860
00:41:34,918 --> 00:41:36,167
that is occurring.
861
00:41:36,250 --> 00:41:39,209
To date,
there has been
no "new evidence"
862
00:41:39,292 --> 00:41:41,959
that has come out
that would justify
863
00:41:42,042 --> 00:41:43,751
the original story
in the first place,
864
00:41:43,834 --> 00:41:46,417
let alone this
constant resurgence.
865
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,584
♪ ♪
866
00:41:54,334 --> 00:41:56,584
Aaron Rich:
It's not just words,
867
00:41:56,667 --> 00:41:58,459
and you're not just
pushing something,
868
00:41:58,542 --> 00:42:02,584
like, you're having real
effects on real people.
869
00:42:02,667 --> 00:42:06,709
It's hard enough to process
the thought of a family member
being murdered.
870
00:42:06,792 --> 00:42:08,959
But it very quickly went to,
871
00:42:09,042 --> 00:42:12,042
you know, that I took money
from WikiLeaks,
872
00:42:12,125 --> 00:42:14,876
that I'm cooperating
with a hostile
873
00:42:14,959 --> 00:42:17,250
foreign intelligence service.
874
00:42:17,334 --> 00:42:19,209
Where is this
even coming from?
875
00:42:19,292 --> 00:42:22,584
Being directly accused of being
involved in any of this,
876
00:42:22,667 --> 00:42:24,334
just turns our world
completely upside down,
877
00:42:24,417 --> 00:42:26,167
that was already
turned upside down
878
00:42:26,250 --> 00:42:29,500
from the rest
of the conspiracies.
879
00:42:29,584 --> 00:42:32,292
I still have not been able
to sit there and really
880
00:42:32,375 --> 00:42:36,292
properly grieve the fact
that he's not there.
881
00:42:36,375 --> 00:42:38,292
The number of times
I've wanted to pick up my phone
882
00:42:38,375 --> 00:42:42,167
and describe this absolute
ridiculous situation
that's going on,
883
00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:44,500
the person I would call
would be my brother.
884
00:42:45,751 --> 00:42:48,751
Folkenflik: After extraordinary
backlash from journalists
885
00:42:48,834 --> 00:42:53,083
and especially the Rich family,
Fox withdrew its story.
886
00:42:53,167 --> 00:42:55,125
They said, it didn't meet
our standards.
887
00:42:56,334 --> 00:42:58,459
What they didn't do
is apologize.
888
00:42:58,542 --> 00:43:01,375
You had a family
who had been told their son
889
00:43:01,459 --> 00:43:03,959
had essentially
committed a crime,
890
00:43:04,042 --> 00:43:07,000
an assertion for which they had
no proof and no evidence.
891
00:43:07,083 --> 00:43:09,834
Sean Hannity not only
hasn't apologized
892
00:43:09,918 --> 00:43:11,834
to the Rich family,
893
00:43:11,918 --> 00:43:13,375
but he hasn't disavowed it.
894
00:43:13,459 --> 00:43:17,500
Out of respect
for the family's wishes for now,
895
00:43:17,584 --> 00:43:21,334
I am not discussing
this matter at this time.
896
00:43:21,417 --> 00:43:24,667
I have no clue why they,
why they won't say it.
897
00:43:24,751 --> 00:43:28,751
Pushing out false statements
and not being willing to accept
that they were false
898
00:43:28,834 --> 00:43:32,083
after being proven numerous,
numerous times false, um...
899
00:43:33,167 --> 00:43:34,959
doesn't make sense to me.
900
00:43:35,042 --> 00:43:37,876
♪ ♪
901
00:43:39,417 --> 00:43:42,417
Now, the real question is,
who's to blame?
902
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:45,584
Are we going to say,
oh, look, Reddit did this?
903
00:43:45,667 --> 00:43:48,626
Or are we going to say,
oh, look, Hannity did this?
904
00:43:48,709 --> 00:43:53,042
When people started
looking around, what happened?
905
00:43:53,125 --> 00:43:55,709
The answer always
fell on what's new,
906
00:43:55,792 --> 00:43:57,459
and what's new
was the technology.
907
00:43:57,542 --> 00:44:00,626
♪ ♪
908
00:44:03,334 --> 00:44:05,792
Newsman: Facebook CEO
Mark Zuckerberg will testify
909
00:44:05,876 --> 00:44:08,709
in front of a joint hearing
of the Senate Judiciary
910
00:44:08,792 --> 00:44:11,709
and Commerce Committees today.
911
00:44:11,792 --> 00:44:13,834
Senators will demand answers
from Zuckerberg
912
00:44:13,918 --> 00:44:18,500
about Facebook's failure
to protect millions of users'
private information.
913
00:44:18,584 --> 00:44:20,792
Newswoman: And they've
actually added extra seats
914
00:44:20,876 --> 00:44:23,209
to this hearing room
to accommodate
all the senators
915
00:44:23,292 --> 00:44:27,042
who are going to be
questioning Zuckerberg today,
44 of them.
916
00:44:27,125 --> 00:44:30,876
Zuckerberg is going to be
in the hot seat for hours.
917
00:44:32,626 --> 00:44:34,334
Silverman: If you think
about Facebook specifically,
918
00:44:34,417 --> 00:44:36,250
there's more than two billion
people around the world
919
00:44:36,334 --> 00:44:38,000
that log into it every month.
920
00:44:38,083 --> 00:44:41,584
There has never been
anything like Facebook
in the history of humanity.
921
00:44:41,667 --> 00:44:43,918
There are ads there.
There's news there.
922
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,250
There's your personal life,
your friends.
923
00:44:46,334 --> 00:44:49,083
If he was to honestly say
that he would no longer
924
00:44:49,167 --> 00:44:53,000
be selling any data, um,
and if he would own up to it...
925
00:44:53,083 --> 00:44:55,209
Kara Swisher:
They've done better than
anyone else on the planet
926
00:44:55,292 --> 00:44:57,292
by sucking in every piece
of information about you
927
00:44:57,375 --> 00:44:59,042
and what you do
and what you think.
928
00:44:59,125 --> 00:45:01,000
And it's sort of like
a digital fence,
929
00:45:01,083 --> 00:45:02,709
they've gotten everyone
to paint the fence,
930
00:45:02,792 --> 00:45:05,834
you know, with your data,
and they benefit from it.
931
00:45:05,918 --> 00:45:07,709
Benkler: It's designed
to actually give
932
00:45:07,792 --> 00:45:11,167
so much information
about us individually
933
00:45:11,250 --> 00:45:14,667
so that Facebook can
turn around and sell insight
934
00:45:14,751 --> 00:45:19,042
into what kind of communication
will best manipulate me
935
00:45:19,125 --> 00:45:21,334
to do what someone else
wants to do.
936
00:45:22,876 --> 00:45:24,751
Zuckerberg:
As Facebook has grown,
people everywhere
937
00:45:24,834 --> 00:45:27,125
have gotten a powerful new tool
938
00:45:27,209 --> 00:45:29,000
for staying connected
to the people they love,
939
00:45:29,083 --> 00:45:33,334
for making their voices heard,
and for building communities
and businesses.
940
00:45:33,792 --> 00:45:35,834
But it's clear now
that we didn't do enough
941
00:45:35,918 --> 00:45:39,334
to prevent these tools from
being used for harm as well.
942
00:45:39,417 --> 00:45:41,209
And that goes for fake news,
943
00:45:41,292 --> 00:45:43,751
for foreign interference
in elections and hate speech,
944
00:45:43,834 --> 00:45:46,626
as well as developers
and data privacy.
945
00:45:47,250 --> 00:45:50,667
We didn't take a broad enough
view of our responsibility,
946
00:45:50,751 --> 00:45:52,667
and that was a big mistake,
947
00:45:52,751 --> 00:45:55,792
and it was my mistake,
and I'm sorry.
948
00:45:55,876 --> 00:45:59,375
There's a lot of things that
have been going on at Facebook
for a long time,
949
00:45:59,459 --> 00:46:00,918
of people who've covered it
a long time.
950
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,959
And a lot of them are
on privacy violations,
951
00:46:04,042 --> 00:46:06,876
sort of sketchy use of data,
952
00:46:06,959 --> 00:46:09,459
always pushing the envelope--
growth, growth, growth.
953
00:46:09,542 --> 00:46:11,667
We're here because of
what you, Mr. Zuckerberg,
954
00:46:11,751 --> 00:46:14,334
have described
as a breach of trust.
955
00:46:14,417 --> 00:46:18,042
A quiz app used by
approximately 300,000 people
956
00:46:18,125 --> 00:46:21,959
led to information about
87 million Facebook users
957
00:46:22,042 --> 00:46:25,417
being obtained by the company
Cambridge Analytica.
958
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:26,918
Soroush Vosoughi:
So how is that possible?
959
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,792
I mean, their systems are
very good at detecting
960
00:46:28,876 --> 00:46:31,125
scrapers, spam accounts,
and things like that.
961
00:46:31,209 --> 00:46:34,292
It's kind of mind-boggling
that they weren't able
to detect this,
962
00:46:34,375 --> 00:46:36,876
and I think the reason is
because they didn't care.
963
00:46:36,959 --> 00:46:38,375
Not that, you know,
they were being malicious,
964
00:46:38,459 --> 00:46:40,375
it's just that it was something
they were not interested in.
965
00:46:40,459 --> 00:46:42,959
They had built a system
where they didn't know
966
00:46:43,042 --> 00:46:45,876
what people
were doing on it, really.
967
00:46:45,959 --> 00:46:50,125
And when malevolent actors
get involved with the platform,
968
00:46:50,209 --> 00:46:53,209
you began to see
how easily manipulable
969
00:46:53,292 --> 00:46:57,334
this platform was
just by using it
the way it worked.
970
00:46:57,417 --> 00:46:59,834
The Russians, they were
a customer of Facebook.
971
00:46:59,918 --> 00:47:01,667
They were.
They used the tools
972
00:47:01,751 --> 00:47:03,500
that were built
in this country
973
00:47:03,584 --> 00:47:05,584
to create discord
and dissention
974
00:47:05,667 --> 00:47:08,667
across our nation in lots
of very important areas.
975
00:47:09,250 --> 00:47:10,667
And some people
like Donald Trump say,
976
00:47:10,751 --> 00:47:13,334
not one vote was shifted,
but that's not true.
977
00:47:13,417 --> 00:47:18,375
Personally, I think
the idea that,
978
00:47:19,334 --> 00:47:22,500
you know, fake news on Facebook,
of which, you know,
979
00:47:22,584 --> 00:47:26,751
it's a very small amount of,
of the content,
980
00:47:26,834 --> 00:47:29,751
uh, influenced the election
in any way,
981
00:47:29,834 --> 00:47:32,417
I think is a pretty crazy idea.
982
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:35,751
So they moved from,
it was crazy to think so,
983
00:47:35,834 --> 00:47:37,751
to okay, there was
a little thing,
984
00:47:37,834 --> 00:47:39,751
and then, oh,
there was more, and then--
985
00:47:39,834 --> 00:47:41,626
I don't believe any of it.
I don't, I don't--
986
00:47:41,709 --> 00:47:44,167
The only reason
I don't believe it is because
I don't think they know.
987
00:47:44,250 --> 00:47:49,125
Senator: These unverified,
divisive pages are
on Facebook today.
988
00:47:49,209 --> 00:47:51,709
They look a lot like
the anonymous groups
989
00:47:51,792 --> 00:47:54,709
the Russian agents used
990
00:47:54,792 --> 00:47:57,834
to spread propaganda
during the 2016 election.
991
00:47:57,918 --> 00:48:00,792
Are you able to confirm
whether they're
992
00:48:00,876 --> 00:48:03,959
Russian-created groups,
yes or no?
993
00:48:04,042 --> 00:48:07,125
Um, Senator, last week,
we actually announced
994
00:48:07,209 --> 00:48:10,542
a major change to our ads
and pages policies,
995
00:48:10,626 --> 00:48:14,959
that we will be verifying
the identity of every
single advertiser--
996
00:48:15,042 --> 00:48:18,042
I'm asking about
these specific ones.
Do you know whether they are?
997
00:48:18,125 --> 00:48:22,709
I am not familiar with those
pieces of content specifically.
998
00:48:22,792 --> 00:48:24,083
That's the way
it was architected.
999
00:48:24,167 --> 00:48:26,918
It was architected to be
a platform free-for-all,
1000
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,250
where nobody had responsibility,
except they got all the money.
1001
00:48:31,334 --> 00:48:33,125
Vosoughi:
Probably a lot of the people
involved in the hearings
1002
00:48:33,209 --> 00:48:35,083
didn't actually understand
the technology
1003
00:48:35,167 --> 00:48:37,751
and the implications,
and so, you know, it's hard--
1004
00:48:37,834 --> 00:48:41,167
If you don't really
understand what's happening,
you can't really question.
1005
00:48:41,250 --> 00:48:44,918
Let's say I'm emailing about
Black Panther within WhatsApp.
1006
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,751
Do I get a Black Panther
banner ad?
1007
00:48:48,417 --> 00:48:49,834
Senator, we don't--
1008
00:48:49,918 --> 00:48:52,792
Facebook systems do not see
the content of messages
1009
00:48:52,876 --> 00:48:54,167
being transferred
over WhatsApp.
1010
00:48:54,250 --> 00:48:56,000
Yeah, I know, but that's
not what I'm asking.
1011
00:48:56,083 --> 00:48:58,584
McKew: Everybody went in
knowing they had four minutes
1012
00:48:58,667 --> 00:49:01,500
or whatever to ask questions,
and they were very focused
1013
00:49:01,584 --> 00:49:04,125
particularly on
privacy concerns,
1014
00:49:04,209 --> 00:49:07,292
and nobody wanted
to waste time on
1015
00:49:07,375 --> 00:49:09,918
fake news, on Russia,
on foreign actors.
1016
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,834
When you sign up for Facebook,
1017
00:49:11,918 --> 00:49:14,250
you sign up
for terms of service.
1018
00:49:14,334 --> 00:49:16,334
-Are you familiar with that?
-Yes.
1019
00:49:16,417 --> 00:49:18,500
Okay.
It says...
1020
00:49:18,584 --> 00:49:20,250
Swisher: What's about these
terms of service?
1021
00:49:20,334 --> 00:49:22,667
What? Like,
as if terms of service
1022
00:49:22,751 --> 00:49:24,500
were our biggest
national emergency.
1023
00:49:24,584 --> 00:49:27,209
Oh, my God, you can't
read terms of service.
1024
00:49:27,292 --> 00:49:29,209
Like, who cares?
Who cares?
1025
00:49:29,292 --> 00:49:32,375
Like, they just, we're not
focusing on the problem at hand.
1026
00:49:32,459 --> 00:49:34,792
It was just a ridiculous
circus, and so, therefore,
1027
00:49:34,876 --> 00:49:37,918
Mark came off well
because he didn't, like,
1028
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,042
vomit on the desk
or something, like,
he didn't like, fall apart.
1029
00:49:42,125 --> 00:49:43,334
He answered questions.
1030
00:49:43,417 --> 00:49:45,167
But, you know,
I'll get back to you, Senator.
1031
00:49:45,250 --> 00:49:47,167
That's an interesting
question, Senator.
1032
00:49:47,250 --> 00:49:48,751
He said nothing,
he said nothing.
1033
00:49:48,834 --> 00:49:51,000
It will take some time
to work through all the changes
1034
00:49:51,083 --> 00:49:52,751
we need to make
across the company,
1035
00:49:52,834 --> 00:49:55,834
but I'm committed
to getting this right.
1036
00:49:55,918 --> 00:49:58,584
Swisher: I don't think
they're malevolent people.
1037
00:49:58,667 --> 00:50:01,459
Mark is lovely.
He's polite.
1038
00:50:01,542 --> 00:50:04,042
He's earnest.
He wants to learn.
1039
00:50:04,125 --> 00:50:06,000
It's just that
their basic premise
1040
00:50:06,083 --> 00:50:08,876
is that this is
just a benign platform.
1041
00:50:08,959 --> 00:50:13,083
These are
the most powerful tools
in the history of our planet.
1042
00:50:13,167 --> 00:50:14,918
They are. They just are.
1043
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,250
When you have these tools,
people are gonna find ways
1044
00:50:17,334 --> 00:50:19,250
to use them in ways
that are
1045
00:50:19,334 --> 00:50:21,000
more nefarious than other ways,
1046
00:50:21,083 --> 00:50:23,626
or at least
experiment around them.
1047
00:50:23,709 --> 00:50:26,626
Once you have a gun,
you want to shoot it.
1048
00:50:26,709 --> 00:50:29,709
You just do,
like, that's what a gun is for.
1049
00:50:30,667 --> 00:50:33,459
A lot of these
technologies are guns,
1050
00:50:33,542 --> 00:50:34,959
and they're gonna be shot.
1051
00:50:35,042 --> 00:50:38,125
♪ ♪
1052
00:50:42,417 --> 00:50:45,542
McKew: I think if you're
Vladimir Putin, you wake up
every morning and you laugh.
1053
00:50:45,626 --> 00:50:48,292
Because they did some of
this stuff to us,
1054
00:50:48,375 --> 00:50:49,792
but the worst part of 2016
1055
00:50:49,876 --> 00:50:51,459
is the stuff
we did to ourselves.
1056
00:50:51,542 --> 00:50:52,959
The worst part of
what's happening now
1057
00:50:53,042 --> 00:50:55,667
is we're still doing it
to ourselves.
1058
00:50:55,751 --> 00:50:58,626
The attack is now coming
from inside the house.
1059
00:50:58,709 --> 00:51:01,125
You have small campaigns
using these techniques
1060
00:51:01,209 --> 00:51:03,792
where you have
individual candidates
using these techniques,
1061
00:51:03,876 --> 00:51:06,000
where everybody thinks
they need to use data better
1062
00:51:06,083 --> 00:51:08,250
and more effectively to target
1063
00:51:08,334 --> 00:51:10,500
the unknown voter
or the hardcore voter
1064
00:51:10,584 --> 00:51:13,083
or the radicalized voter,
one way or the other.
1065
00:51:13,167 --> 00:51:15,250
When this is the environment,
1066
00:51:15,334 --> 00:51:17,334
the Russians
don't have to do very much.
1067
00:51:17,417 --> 00:51:19,417
We're doing it
to ourselves now.
1068
00:51:24,876 --> 00:51:28,083
Matt Osborne: If somebody
has chemical weapons,
1069
00:51:28,167 --> 00:51:31,334
and you deem it
necessary to have
chemical weapons
1070
00:51:31,417 --> 00:51:33,876
to deter
the chemical weapons,
then, you know,
1071
00:51:33,959 --> 00:51:36,667
this is a classic
Cold War phenomenon.
1072
00:51:38,083 --> 00:51:42,542
Shane: On the Democratic side,
there was a feeling that
1073
00:51:42,626 --> 00:51:44,542
Democrats were
behind in this race
1074
00:51:44,626 --> 00:51:47,751
to use social media,
to use technology.
1075
00:51:47,834 --> 00:51:50,292
So there were some Democrats,
it turns out,
1076
00:51:50,375 --> 00:51:52,042
who are thinking, like,
1077
00:51:52,125 --> 00:51:54,042
you know, we have
to catch up in this race.
1078
00:51:54,125 --> 00:51:56,626
We have to
understand these tools.
1079
00:51:56,709 --> 00:51:59,626
And one of the races
that was sort of a natural
1080
00:51:59,709 --> 00:52:03,918
to experiment in was
the special senate race
1081
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,292
in December of 2017.
1082
00:52:06,375 --> 00:52:09,584
It pitted an extremely
conservative Christian
1083
00:52:09,667 --> 00:52:12,542
named Roy Moore,
a former judge,
who's a Republican,
1084
00:52:12,626 --> 00:52:15,751
against a Democrat
named Doug Jones.
1085
00:52:15,834 --> 00:52:17,334
There weren't a lot
of other races going on,
1086
00:52:17,417 --> 00:52:20,667
so Republicans and Democrats
were very focused on this race.
1087
00:52:20,751 --> 00:52:26,083
McKew:
You have this old-school,
leveraging racist rhetoric.
1088
00:52:26,167 --> 00:52:29,167
All the women
who are coming out
and accusing Roy Moore
1089
00:52:29,250 --> 00:52:31,083
of advances
on under-aged women
1090
00:52:31,167 --> 00:52:32,751
and really
inappropriate conduct,
1091
00:52:32,834 --> 00:52:35,500
that was feeding into
all of Democrat's fears
1092
00:52:35,584 --> 00:52:37,209
coming out of 2016.
1093
00:52:37,292 --> 00:52:38,834
What if this
is happening again?
1094
00:52:38,918 --> 00:52:41,334
What if these guys
are winning elections again?
1095
00:52:41,417 --> 00:52:44,709
So, Reid Hoffman,
a Silicon Valley billionaire,
1096
00:52:44,792 --> 00:52:49,125
decides to bankroll his own
pro-Democratic campaign
1097
00:52:49,209 --> 00:52:51,334
to dampen Roy Moore's chances.
1098
00:52:51,417 --> 00:52:53,751
Osborne: We got $100,000.
1099
00:52:53,834 --> 00:52:56,083
I don't know if that was
Mr. Hoffman's money
1100
00:52:56,167 --> 00:52:57,459
or what, what it was.
1101
00:52:57,542 --> 00:52:59,417
All I know is
that money arrived,
1102
00:52:59,500 --> 00:53:03,584
and it was time to go to work.
1103
00:53:03,667 --> 00:53:06,542
The Alabama project,
as I titled it,
1104
00:53:06,626 --> 00:53:10,584
was an effort to use Facebook
1105
00:53:10,667 --> 00:53:13,500
and emulate some of the tactics
that had been used
1106
00:53:13,584 --> 00:53:15,709
against Democrats
in recent years.
1107
00:53:15,792 --> 00:53:19,083
Doug Jones didn't know that this
was happening on his behalf.
1108
00:53:19,167 --> 00:53:21,083
-Woman: Doug Jones!
-Crowd: Doug Jones!
1109
00:53:21,167 --> 00:53:23,834
Jones:
It was an incredible run.
It was an incredible election.
1110
00:53:23,918 --> 00:53:25,250
It was a fun campaign,
1111
00:53:25,334 --> 00:53:28,751
nerve-wracking campaign,
got a little weird on occasion,
1112
00:53:28,834 --> 00:53:30,709
uh, and then election night
was just amazing.
1113
00:53:30,792 --> 00:53:33,959
-(crowd roaring)
-Newsman: It is absolutely
deafening in here.
1114
00:53:34,042 --> 00:53:37,000
This news just coming across
the screen there...
1115
00:53:37,083 --> 00:53:40,500
Rossi: Your election was
won by about 20,000 votes.
1116
00:53:40,584 --> 00:53:43,375
-Mm-hmm.
-Rossi: A fairly small margin?
1117
00:53:43,459 --> 00:53:45,459
Oh, yeah, out of 1.3 million,
I would say
1118
00:53:45,542 --> 00:53:48,042
that that was relatively tight.
1119
00:53:48,125 --> 00:53:50,626
Doug Jones won, absolutely.
1120
00:53:50,709 --> 00:53:56,042
All I did was push a little
from the outside.
1121
00:53:56,125 --> 00:54:00,792
Our effort, we were hoping,
would help Republicans
1122
00:54:00,876 --> 00:54:02,709
not turn out to vote.
1123
00:54:02,792 --> 00:54:05,459
So we created a page
called Dry Alabama,
1124
00:54:05,542 --> 00:54:08,417
a conservative,
pro-Roy Moore,
1125
00:54:08,500 --> 00:54:11,209
pro-Republican bunch of people
who wanted to make
1126
00:54:11,292 --> 00:54:15,334
Alabama dry again
because the liquor laws
had gotten too liberal.
1127
00:54:15,417 --> 00:54:18,709
And our idea was
that if you show this
1128
00:54:18,792 --> 00:54:21,292
to moderate
suburban Republicans,
1129
00:54:21,375 --> 00:54:25,834
they will say, oh, man,
these Roy Moore supporters,
they are crazy.
1130
00:54:25,918 --> 00:54:29,459
And if these Roy Moore
supporters are so crazy,
1131
00:54:29,542 --> 00:54:31,792
then I just can't support him.
1132
00:54:31,876 --> 00:54:33,292
That was the idea.
1133
00:54:33,375 --> 00:54:36,125
Woman: If you're like me,
you're fearful for the souls
1134
00:54:36,209 --> 00:54:38,334
of our brothers and sisters.
1135
00:54:38,417 --> 00:54:41,000
We made videos,
and some of the videos
1136
00:54:41,083 --> 00:54:43,250
were just mocktail recipes.
1137
00:54:43,334 --> 00:54:46,292
Woman: Try this moral take
on a sinful beverage.
1138
00:54:46,375 --> 00:54:48,792
A righteous mint julep.
1139
00:54:48,876 --> 00:54:51,834
Osborne: I have a knack
for creating new voices,
1140
00:54:51,918 --> 00:54:55,918
and in this particular case,
it sounded like a real
conservative.
1141
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,792
Rossi:
You were pretending to be
somebody that you weren't.
1142
00:54:58,876 --> 00:55:00,542
Oh, sure, sure.
1143
00:55:00,626 --> 00:55:03,042
Um, I was definitely
pretending to be
1144
00:55:03,125 --> 00:55:05,083
a conservative
when I wrote that stuff.
1145
00:55:05,167 --> 00:55:09,042
I felt empowered for
the first time ever, really,
1146
00:55:09,125 --> 00:55:13,042
to finally give, maybe,
a Republican party
1147
00:55:13,125 --> 00:55:15,417
a taste of its own medicine
a little bit.
1148
00:55:15,500 --> 00:55:21,250
Fundamentally, the fakery is...
going to happen.
1149
00:55:21,334 --> 00:55:25,667
It's happening to me, so why
should it not happen to you?
1150
00:55:27,167 --> 00:55:29,584
Jones:
It was December of 2018
1151
00:55:29,667 --> 00:55:31,709
when the New York Times
article came out
1152
00:55:31,792 --> 00:55:33,417
in which the allegation was
1153
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:37,042
there was a creation of some
fake news type accounts
1154
00:55:37,125 --> 00:55:40,709
to try to influence the election
in my favor.
1155
00:55:40,792 --> 00:55:43,167
And I was absolutely,
one, stunned,
1156
00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:46,417
two, pretty outraged,
pretty, pretty angry about that
1157
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,417
and immediately said so,
1158
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:51,167
and immediately called
for an investigation.
1159
00:55:52,417 --> 00:55:54,417
Shane: At least two groups
of Democrats
1160
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:56,125
that we've found out about
1161
00:55:56,209 --> 00:56:00,209
were experimenting with
essentially Russian techniques.
1162
00:56:00,292 --> 00:56:02,667
New Knowledge was part of that,
so was Tovo Labs,
1163
00:56:02,751 --> 00:56:06,167
and, it turns out,
so was my little group.
1164
00:56:06,250 --> 00:56:08,042
Um, I did not know
that at the time.
1165
00:56:08,125 --> 00:56:11,751
The New Knowledge stuff,
some of that seems pretty
sketchy to me.
1166
00:56:11,834 --> 00:56:13,709
So let's start with the idea
that reality
1167
00:56:13,792 --> 00:56:15,375
is a construct of your mind.
1168
00:56:15,459 --> 00:56:18,417
And what that means,
in a philosophical context,
1169
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:23,542
is, um, that all of us live
in our own subjective reality.
1170
00:56:23,626 --> 00:56:26,584
Shane: A little cybersecurity
company called New Knowledge
1171
00:56:26,667 --> 00:56:29,459
based in Austin, Texas,
they got some money
1172
00:56:29,542 --> 00:56:33,042
from Reid Hoffman
through a pass-through
1173
00:56:33,125 --> 00:56:35,167
to this little project.
1174
00:56:37,083 --> 00:56:39,667
This group created
a conservative
1175
00:56:39,751 --> 00:56:42,167
Alabamian Facebook page
1176
00:56:42,250 --> 00:56:44,292
to try to influence
conservatives,
1177
00:56:44,375 --> 00:56:47,167
even though they were Democrats,
they were liberals.
1178
00:56:47,250 --> 00:56:49,125
These were the guys
the Senate hired
1179
00:56:49,209 --> 00:56:51,334
to do a comprehensive report,
1180
00:56:51,417 --> 00:56:53,167
which was quite
a well-done report,
1181
00:56:53,250 --> 00:56:55,125
on what the Russians
did in 2016.
1182
00:56:55,209 --> 00:56:57,876
And here, they're caught doing
a little bit of it
1183
00:56:57,959 --> 00:56:59,542
themselves in US politics.
1184
00:56:59,626 --> 00:57:02,918
It's very embarrassing for them,
very damaging for them.
1185
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,083
♪ ♪
1186
00:57:09,292 --> 00:57:11,500
Among other things,
they endorsed
1187
00:57:11,584 --> 00:57:13,500
a conservative
write-in candidate
1188
00:57:13,584 --> 00:57:17,000
to try to draw votes
from Roy Moore.
1189
00:57:17,083 --> 00:57:19,125
McKew: New Knowledge has
gotten a ton of investment
1190
00:57:19,209 --> 00:57:21,959
to conduct research
to counter disinformation,
1191
00:57:22,042 --> 00:57:25,000
and they themselves are
currently operationalizing
disinformation.
1192
00:57:25,083 --> 00:57:26,542
It's really problematic.
1193
00:57:26,626 --> 00:57:29,709
♪ ♪
1194
00:57:45,292 --> 00:57:46,876
It's still
a little bit mysterious,
1195
00:57:46,959 --> 00:57:50,167
because New Knowledge
and Jonathan Morgan, the CEO,
1196
00:57:50,250 --> 00:57:52,209
was, I think, lying to me
about various things.
1197
00:57:52,292 --> 00:57:56,292
And it was kind of loosely run
and involved multiple people,
1198
00:57:56,375 --> 00:58:00,375
and I think some people
had different ideas
about it than others.
1199
00:58:00,459 --> 00:58:02,876
But everyone's, at this point,
everybody's kind of like,
1200
00:58:02,959 --> 00:58:05,167
lying and pointing a finger
at somebody else.
1201
00:58:05,250 --> 00:58:07,125
♪ ♪
1202
00:58:07,209 --> 00:58:08,667
Rossi:
As the secretary of state,
1203
00:58:08,751 --> 00:58:10,709
who has to certify
election results,
1204
00:58:10,792 --> 00:58:12,167
you must be concerned about
1205
00:58:12,250 --> 00:58:14,250
these incredibly
deceptive tactics.
1206
00:58:14,334 --> 00:58:15,667
Yeah, but seriously, now.
1207
00:58:15,751 --> 00:58:18,459
What we're talking about here
is not anything different
1208
00:58:18,542 --> 00:58:21,876
than what has occurred
in US politics
1209
00:58:21,959 --> 00:58:26,083
or international politics
in the history of political
systems.
1210
00:58:26,167 --> 00:58:29,250
The only difference is now
people are able to do that,
1211
00:58:29,334 --> 00:58:31,542
in many people's minds,
more effectively
1212
00:58:31,626 --> 00:58:33,083
because of social media.
1213
00:58:33,167 --> 00:58:36,500
Rossi: So these tactics don't
raise a special kind of alarm?
1214
00:58:36,584 --> 00:58:39,626
Well, the problem is, you can't
ever fully address them,
1215
00:58:39,709 --> 00:58:41,918
because you can't control
the behavior
1216
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,167
of people who are engaging
in that activity.
1217
00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:48,584
Osborne: John Merrill,
Alabama's secretary of state,
1218
00:58:48,667 --> 00:58:50,709
is definitely part
of the Republican machine,
1219
00:58:50,792 --> 00:58:52,542
and he will settle things
on terms
1220
00:58:52,626 --> 00:58:54,709
that are favorable
to the Republican machine.
1221
00:58:54,792 --> 00:58:57,375
To some degree, I was hoping
that there would be
1222
00:58:57,459 --> 00:58:58,792
more reaction from the right.
1223
00:58:58,876 --> 00:59:01,167
I was hoping that
there would be more,
1224
00:59:01,250 --> 00:59:03,209
oh, well, that's terrible,
what you did.
1225
00:59:03,292 --> 00:59:05,584
But that didn't happen so much.
1226
00:59:05,667 --> 00:59:08,918
Rossi: Are there
actions you would take
as secretary of state
1227
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,918
to defend against
disinformation in elections?
1228
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,459
Well, if there were instances
where the law was broken
1229
00:59:15,542 --> 00:59:19,292
in regard to campaigning,
we definitely will.
1230
00:59:19,375 --> 00:59:21,500
But if it's simply someone
1231
00:59:21,584 --> 00:59:24,000
doing a superior job
to another candidate
1232
00:59:24,083 --> 00:59:27,459
without going outside
the boundaries of the law,
1233
00:59:27,542 --> 00:59:30,417
then we can't pick apart
1234
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:32,959
what certain people are doing,
because at that point,
1235
00:59:33,042 --> 00:59:36,959
that's not making
the most effective
or best use of our time.
1236
00:59:37,042 --> 00:59:41,542
I can't say that we actually
made the difference,
1237
00:59:41,626 --> 00:59:43,751
I wouldn't go that far.
1238
00:59:43,834 --> 00:59:45,459
But think of the math here.
1239
00:59:45,542 --> 00:59:48,167
Three million people
saw this ad.
1240
00:59:48,250 --> 00:59:51,751
If we affected
one percent of them,
1241
00:59:51,834 --> 00:59:54,417
so that they
ended up not voting,
1242
00:59:54,500 --> 00:59:56,626
that's 30,000 votes.
1243
00:59:56,709 --> 00:59:59,250
Doug Jones won by 21,000 votes.
1244
01:00:00,250 --> 01:00:05,792
If we affected one in a thousand
of the people who saw that ad,
1245
01:00:05,876 --> 01:00:09,417
that's 3,000 votes,
that's about equal
1246
01:00:09,500 --> 01:00:11,250
to Doug Jones's winning margin
1247
01:00:11,334 --> 01:00:14,167
in 11 of the counties
that he won.
1248
01:00:14,250 --> 01:00:16,375
Imagine a bunch
of these efforts,
1249
01:00:16,459 --> 01:00:19,584
each whittling away
just a little bit of the vote.
1250
01:00:19,667 --> 01:00:21,667
That what you--
That's all you need
1251
01:00:21,751 --> 01:00:24,667
if you're talking about
a close race.
1252
01:00:24,751 --> 01:00:26,751
So, yeah, I have
a moral imperative
1253
01:00:26,834 --> 01:00:28,626
to use these techniques
against you,
1254
01:00:28,709 --> 01:00:31,709
I absolutely have to,
because otherwise,
1255
01:00:32,626 --> 01:00:36,042
what's gonna happen
to my political perspective?
1256
01:00:36,125 --> 01:00:38,167
It's gonna be
drowned out completely.
1257
01:00:38,250 --> 01:00:42,083
The situation is that one side
is obeying a set of rules
1258
01:00:42,167 --> 01:00:45,334
that the other side
will never respect,
1259
01:00:45,417 --> 01:00:46,959
ever.
1260
01:00:47,042 --> 01:00:50,209
And they will not
change the rules
1261
01:00:50,292 --> 01:00:53,500
until the rules start
smacking them
1262
01:00:53,584 --> 01:00:56,209
in the face a few times.
1263
01:00:56,292 --> 01:00:59,667
Two wrongs do not make a right,
that's, that's crazy.
1264
01:00:59,751 --> 01:01:02,167
If all of a sudden,
the left sees
1265
01:01:02,250 --> 01:01:04,500
we've got to do this because
the right's been doing it,
1266
01:01:04,584 --> 01:01:06,834
and they start winning, then
the right's gonna up their game.
1267
01:01:06,918 --> 01:01:08,500
Then the left's
gonna up their game.
1268
01:01:08,584 --> 01:01:10,626
And the next thing you know,
there is nothing
1269
01:01:10,709 --> 01:01:13,375
about this democracy
that is real.
1270
01:01:17,167 --> 01:01:22,667
Burkman: I wonder
about how intense
the spiral will be.
1271
01:01:22,751 --> 01:01:26,751
I wonder if
there's not something
more toxic with all this.
1272
01:01:29,334 --> 01:01:30,876
We don't know the effects
of fake news.
1273
01:01:30,959 --> 01:01:32,709
We don't know
where this is going.
1274
01:01:32,792 --> 01:01:34,042
It's changing by the day.
1275
01:01:34,125 --> 01:01:36,959
It's the industrial revolution,
but faster, bigger,
1276
01:01:37,042 --> 01:01:39,042
and maybe more consequential.
1277
01:01:39,125 --> 01:01:42,042
We don't know where it's going.
1278
01:01:42,125 --> 01:01:43,709
I see myself drowning,
1279
01:01:43,792 --> 01:01:46,626
drowning in an ocean that gets
bigger and bigger and bigger.
1280
01:01:46,709 --> 01:01:48,667
I would prefer a world
without fake news,
1281
01:01:48,751 --> 01:01:52,334
but if others are using it,
I'm gonna use it.
1282
01:01:53,667 --> 01:01:55,626
NBC News is reporting tonight
1283
01:01:55,709 --> 01:01:59,167
about an apparent effort
to smear Robert Mueller.
1284
01:01:59,250 --> 01:02:00,626
The plot appeared
to be the latest
1285
01:02:00,709 --> 01:02:02,918
and one of the more bizarre
in a string of attempts
1286
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,792
by supporters of
President Trump to discredit
1287
01:02:05,876 --> 01:02:09,250
Mr. Mueller's investigation
as a hoax and a witch hunt.
1288
01:02:09,334 --> 01:02:12,292
(barks)
1289
01:02:12,375 --> 01:02:14,083
Burkman: Jacob, I feel like
I've known you for years.
1290
01:02:14,167 --> 01:02:17,417
-I'm glad you're finally here.
-Jacob Wohl: Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
1291
01:02:17,500 --> 01:02:18,751
Today, at the press conference,
1292
01:02:18,834 --> 01:02:21,125
the main mission is
to set the story straight.
1293
01:02:21,209 --> 01:02:23,834
And we have to lay out,
in detail,
1294
01:02:23,918 --> 01:02:26,417
the accusations
of our client.
1295
01:02:26,500 --> 01:02:28,250
(barks)
1296
01:02:28,334 --> 01:02:30,626
This for us, is
not about infamy,
it's about legacy.
1297
01:02:30,709 --> 01:02:32,584
We have to get this done.
We have to prove
1298
01:02:32,667 --> 01:02:36,083
that Bob Mueller is
a sex offender, and I think
we're gonna do that.
1299
01:02:37,083 --> 01:02:38,500
We'll do that.
1300
01:02:38,584 --> 01:02:40,375
If we were seeking infamy
and publicity,
1301
01:02:40,459 --> 01:02:42,334
we'd be doing other things.
1302
01:02:42,417 --> 01:02:45,125
-This is too hard.
-Wohl: Yeah, believe me.
1303
01:02:45,209 --> 01:02:47,125
This is too hard.
1304
01:02:49,083 --> 01:02:51,542
We put out a notice
offering a reward,
1305
01:02:51,626 --> 01:02:54,667
$25,000 reward
for whistleblowers
1306
01:02:54,751 --> 01:02:56,792
either within
Bob Mueller's organization
1307
01:02:56,876 --> 01:02:59,584
or within the FBI for bad stuff.
1308
01:02:59,667 --> 01:03:02,292
We were looking for dirt
on McCabe or Mueller.
1309
01:03:02,375 --> 01:03:04,918
Darcy: Jack Burkman says
he's going to bring forward
1310
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,751
a sexual assault accuser
against Robert Mueller.
1311
01:03:07,834 --> 01:03:11,792
And the accuser is
going to come to this
press conference.
1312
01:03:11,876 --> 01:03:14,375
And so, this is, obviously,
an explosive charge.
1313
01:03:14,459 --> 01:03:17,500
So you saw a lot of interest
from media outlets
1314
01:03:17,584 --> 01:03:18,959
willing to look
into this
1315
01:03:19,042 --> 01:03:21,042
if this
were something
that were true,
1316
01:03:21,125 --> 01:03:23,250
despite, even, the fact that
1317
01:03:23,334 --> 01:03:25,375
these people
are fringe characters.
1318
01:03:25,459 --> 01:03:27,334
Burkman: You're on like,
ten magazine covers.
1319
01:03:27,417 --> 01:03:28,792
-Do you know that?
-Wohl: I'm on the cover, yeah.
1320
01:03:28,876 --> 01:03:30,167
-You're on the cover.
-Well, I don't know
1321
01:03:30,250 --> 01:03:31,959
how many people,
how many publications
1322
01:03:32,042 --> 01:03:36,042
have called me a Nazi
this week, I mean, jeez.
1323
01:03:36,125 --> 01:03:39,083
Sommer: Jacob Wohl is a guy
who rose to fame
1324
01:03:39,167 --> 01:03:41,751
by being an obnoxious
character on Twitter.
1325
01:03:41,834 --> 01:03:44,083
McKew:
Jacob Wohl is a charlatan
1326
01:03:44,167 --> 01:03:49,334
who is part of the
bizarro-world Trump-verse
information machine.
1327
01:03:49,417 --> 01:03:52,292
He has wanted to be
more important than he is
for some time.
1328
01:03:52,375 --> 01:03:54,417
Sommer: You know, I think
it kind of hurt Jack's case
1329
01:03:54,500 --> 01:03:56,083
to have Jacob
also involved in it,
1330
01:03:56,167 --> 01:03:59,125
because he was already such
an untrustworthy character.
1331
01:03:59,876 --> 01:04:02,542
Any word from our gal?
1332
01:04:03,292 --> 01:04:06,000
Um, yeah, yeah.
She's just, she's--
1333
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:08,834
No, okay, that's fine.
1334
01:04:08,918 --> 01:04:11,751
Do you think she'll do it...
Will she pick another day?
1335
01:04:13,417 --> 01:04:15,667
-I think there's
coin-flip odds.
-All right.
1336
01:04:15,751 --> 01:04:17,792
Off we go.
1337
01:04:17,876 --> 01:04:20,959
Let's say that she made
a last-minute decision.
1338
01:04:21,042 --> 01:04:23,167
I'll just say
in the last 30 minutes,
1339
01:04:23,250 --> 01:04:24,626
because of threats
and other things,
1340
01:04:24,709 --> 01:04:26,459
she's made a decision
not to appear today.
1341
01:04:26,542 --> 01:04:28,417
But we're gonna go
over the details of
her sworn statement.
1342
01:04:28,500 --> 01:04:30,209
-Wohl: She's
extremely scared...
-Burkman: Yeah.
1343
01:04:30,292 --> 01:04:32,250
Wohl: ... from a flurry of
death threats, and she's safe.
1344
01:04:32,334 --> 01:04:34,542
Burkman:
You could say something like,
we have her in a safe house.
1345
01:04:34,626 --> 01:04:36,542
-I'll leave all that to you.
-Wohl: Yeah.
1346
01:04:36,626 --> 01:04:38,209
Burkman: Yeah, just say
in the last 30 minutes,
1347
01:04:38,292 --> 01:04:39,918
because I'm telling all these
reporters she's there.
1348
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,292
-Otherwise, they won't come.
-Wohl: Yeah.
1349
01:04:42,375 --> 01:04:45,918
You know this, reporters are--
they're lazy and they're dumb.
1350
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,459
-Right.
-They go to Harvard,
1351
01:04:47,542 --> 01:04:48,834
but they're dumb.
They're just--
1352
01:04:48,918 --> 01:04:50,459
A journalism major,
I mean, come on.
1353
01:04:50,542 --> 01:04:51,709
They just
they're dummies.
1354
01:04:51,792 --> 01:04:53,000
Here's how
you write an article.
1355
01:04:53,083 --> 01:04:54,375
You can learn that
in about 12 minutes.
1356
01:04:54,459 --> 01:04:56,792
-Yeah, what do they teach them?
-Yeah, exactly?
1357
01:04:56,876 --> 01:04:58,167
Journalism.
1358
01:04:58,250 --> 01:05:01,751
♪ ♪
1359
01:05:03,459 --> 01:05:05,083
Burkman: What the hell
is this thing here?
1360
01:05:05,167 --> 01:05:06,709
-Is this for us?
-Wohl: It is.
1361
01:05:06,792 --> 01:05:08,000
Uh-oh.
1362
01:05:10,417 --> 01:05:12,876
Hang on, I got to take
a picture of this.
I got to take a picture.
1363
01:05:17,667 --> 01:05:19,584
They bused in a mob,
it looks like.
1364
01:05:19,667 --> 01:05:22,125
-Look at that,
they bused Antifa.
-Really--
1365
01:05:22,209 --> 01:05:24,709
-Who's bused--
-They've bused in a mob.
1366
01:05:24,792 --> 01:05:29,584
Burkman:
Jesus, look at this, huh?
Wow, we must rate, you know?
1367
01:05:31,542 --> 01:05:33,459
-Wohl: Yeah, I'm Jacob.
-Goldman: You're Jacob.
1368
01:05:33,542 --> 01:05:34,834
-Who are you?
-I'm Adam Goldman.
1369
01:05:34,918 --> 01:05:36,250
-New York Times.
-Adam Goldman, that's right.
1370
01:05:36,334 --> 01:05:37,667
I think you followed me
on Twitter recently.
1371
01:05:37,751 --> 01:05:39,334
-I did.
-Or did you? Yeah.
1372
01:05:39,417 --> 01:05:42,959
Yeah, it looks like they have
a rent-a-mob Soros bus here.
1373
01:05:43,417 --> 01:05:46,000
-Is that-- How do you know that?
-I just saw it out the window.
1374
01:05:46,083 --> 01:05:49,042
So that is a rent-a-mob Soros--
How can you say that?
1375
01:05:49,125 --> 01:05:50,459
I'm sitting behind Wohl,
1376
01:05:50,542 --> 01:05:53,375
and they're like ha, ha, ha,
here's a Soros-funded bus
1377
01:05:53,459 --> 01:05:55,417
bringing protesters in.
1378
01:05:55,500 --> 01:05:57,959
And I said to him, I said,
that's just a bus.
1379
01:05:58,042 --> 01:05:59,709
It looks to be
that's what it is.
1380
01:05:59,792 --> 01:06:01,918
-So, you have no evidence--
-It would fit would
fit the profile--
1381
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,500
-I said it looks like.
-You have no evidence
1382
01:06:03,584 --> 01:06:05,292
to suggest that is
a Soros mob bus,
1383
01:06:05,375 --> 01:06:06,709
but, yeah,
you're saying that.
1384
01:06:06,792 --> 01:06:07,876
Sorry, you got to be careful
what you say.
1385
01:06:07,959 --> 01:06:09,334
This is just chatter
between two guys.
1386
01:06:09,417 --> 01:06:11,000
I got you,
right, right, right.
1387
01:06:11,083 --> 01:06:12,709
Goldman:
There's a bus outside,
you're making a claim
1388
01:06:12,792 --> 01:06:15,250
that it's a Soros mobster bus?
1389
01:06:15,334 --> 01:06:18,417
-It probably is.
-Probably.
1390
01:06:18,500 --> 01:06:20,167
Goldman: Then he goes
and tweets it.
1391
01:06:20,250 --> 01:06:23,542
Tweets a picture of the bus.
He's just created fake news.
1392
01:06:23,626 --> 01:06:26,667
You see the toxicity
that ends up on Twitter,
1393
01:06:26,751 --> 01:06:29,959
and other social media,
and these guys are the creators.
1394
01:06:30,042 --> 01:06:32,083
It offends me
as a journalist,
1395
01:06:32,167 --> 01:06:34,000
somebody who spends
an enormous amount of time
1396
01:06:34,083 --> 01:06:37,375
trying to get to the facts that
they're polluting real news.
1397
01:06:38,918 --> 01:06:41,125
I'm on the train, Amtrak,
headed to DC
1398
01:06:41,209 --> 01:06:42,959
from New York to go
to this press conference.
1399
01:06:43,042 --> 01:06:45,375
It's in the Rosslyn
Holiday Inn,
where Jack Burkman
1400
01:06:45,459 --> 01:06:47,083
normally holds these things,
1401
01:06:47,167 --> 01:06:50,834
and... it comes to light that
the accuser's not gonna show up.
1402
01:06:51,834 --> 01:06:56,417
It's not surprising that this
isn't panning out, right?
1403
01:06:56,500 --> 01:06:57,709
Sommer (speaks):
1404
01:06:57,792 --> 01:06:59,209
-Will, good to finally meet you.
-Good to meet you.
1405
01:06:59,292 --> 01:07:00,751
-You as well.
-See you on Twitter
all the time.
1406
01:07:00,834 --> 01:07:03,584
Yeah, you as well.
So what's the deal?
No accuser?
1407
01:07:03,667 --> 01:07:04,792
We're gonna go
right in right now.
1408
01:07:04,876 --> 01:07:06,000
-All right.
-Yep, see you in a sec.
1409
01:07:06,083 --> 01:07:07,918
-See you soon.
-All right.
1410
01:07:09,792 --> 01:07:11,834
You know, what's happened--
We'll talk about this.
1411
01:07:16,626 --> 01:07:17,918
I'll let Jacob
tell you about that.
1412
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:19,042
She's got a lot--
a number of them.
1413
01:07:19,125 --> 01:07:21,292
Burkman (speaking quietly):
1414
01:07:24,959 --> 01:07:26,918
Wohl (speaking):
1415
01:07:27,334 --> 01:07:30,459
Burkman (speaking):
1416
01:07:30,542 --> 01:07:32,918
Wohl (speaking):
1417
01:07:37,209 --> 01:07:39,792
-Okay, good idea, good idea.
-Wohl: ...questions,
that's the key.
1418
01:07:39,876 --> 01:07:41,626
Burkman:
Now, do you want--
1419
01:07:41,709 --> 01:07:43,876
Wohl (speaking):
1420
01:07:46,959 --> 01:07:48,167
Got you.
1421
01:07:48,250 --> 01:07:49,667
Wow, boy, this is tough.
1422
01:07:49,751 --> 01:07:52,542
This is tougher than NFL gay.
This is tough.
1423
01:07:52,626 --> 01:07:54,667
Good afternoon, everyone.
My name is Jack Burkman.
1424
01:07:54,751 --> 01:07:56,584
This is Jacob Wohl.
1425
01:07:56,667 --> 01:07:58,667
There has developed
in the last week
1426
01:07:58,751 --> 01:07:59,918
as I'm sure all of you
have noticed,
1427
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,375
a rather tragic
and sad backstory
1428
01:08:02,459 --> 01:08:04,792
that somehow
I or Jacob or others
1429
01:08:04,876 --> 01:08:08,626
paid or attempted to pay
some woman for coming forward.
1430
01:08:08,709 --> 01:08:10,459
None of this is true.
1431
01:08:10,542 --> 01:08:12,918
Sommer: So they come out
with this affidavit
1432
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:14,459
from this woman
named Carolyne Cass.
1433
01:08:14,542 --> 01:08:17,500
The report is put together
by this organization
1434
01:08:17,584 --> 01:08:19,626
called Surefire Intelligence,
1435
01:08:19,709 --> 01:08:22,751
and this goes online
before the press conference.
1436
01:08:22,834 --> 01:08:25,083
And so, that was where
a lot of people started digging.
1437
01:08:25,167 --> 01:08:27,000
On its website,
this looked like
1438
01:08:27,083 --> 01:08:29,542
a pretty legitimate
organization at first.
1439
01:08:29,626 --> 01:08:32,042
It says that they were former
spies and things like that,
1440
01:08:32,125 --> 01:08:33,959
that work at
Surefire Intelligence.
1441
01:08:34,042 --> 01:08:37,542
And their numbers,
supposedly different
bureaus around the world.
1442
01:08:37,626 --> 01:08:41,042
And so, if you
reverse-searched
the number,
1443
01:08:41,125 --> 01:08:45,125
it was registered
to Jacob Wohl's mother.
1444
01:08:45,209 --> 01:08:46,834
We had a reporter here who
was on the phone with Jacob,
1445
01:08:46,918 --> 01:08:49,250
and he said, are you sure this
isn't just a front for you?
1446
01:08:49,334 --> 01:08:51,250
You're not-- Surefire
Intelligence is a real thing?
1447
01:08:51,334 --> 01:08:53,876
And he's, oh, yeah, yeah.
Don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.
1448
01:08:53,959 --> 01:08:55,542
Well, as it turned out,
1449
01:08:55,626 --> 01:08:58,209
pictures on Surefire
Intelligence of their employees
1450
01:08:58,292 --> 01:09:01,292
were people like
Christoph Waltz,
a Hollywood actor.
1451
01:09:01,375 --> 01:09:04,000
Some models.
Head of Surefire Intelligence,
1452
01:09:04,083 --> 01:09:06,417
he was a kind of shady-looking
guy on his LinkedIn page.
1453
01:09:06,500 --> 01:09:08,083
It was really dim,
but someone just
1454
01:09:08,167 --> 01:09:11,167
brightened it in Photoshop, and
it was just a picture of Jacob.
1455
01:09:11,250 --> 01:09:13,000
So as people kept realizing
1456
01:09:13,083 --> 01:09:15,083
how fraudulent
Surefire Intelligence was,
1457
01:09:15,167 --> 01:09:17,167
that was the setup
for the press conference.
1458
01:09:17,250 --> 01:09:22,167
Jacob and his firm went through
the most intense vetting
1459
01:09:22,250 --> 01:09:24,334
of any woman in one
of these situations,
1460
01:09:24,417 --> 01:09:26,584
and I've represented other women
in these situations,
1461
01:09:26,667 --> 01:09:29,209
as you know,
that I have ever seen.
1462
01:09:29,292 --> 01:09:33,250
And we determined that
the accusation was credible,
1463
01:09:33,334 --> 01:09:35,042
or we wouldn't be here today.
1464
01:09:35,125 --> 01:09:37,417
First of all, I want to stress,
no one is questioning
Ms. Cass's account here.
1465
01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:39,167
We didn't know her name
until 20 minutes ago.
1466
01:09:39,250 --> 01:09:42,542
Okay, we're questioning you two,
both very uncredible people.
1467
01:09:42,626 --> 01:09:44,500
-Here's what I want to know--
-Why are you saying
we're uncredible?
1468
01:09:44,584 --> 01:09:46,125
You know, you had
all the Seth Rich stuff,
whatever.
1469
01:09:46,209 --> 01:09:47,542
My question is for Jacob.
1470
01:09:47,626 --> 01:09:50,417
Why were you so shady
about Surefire Intelligence?
1471
01:09:50,500 --> 01:09:52,876
You told one of our reporters
you didn't run it.
1472
01:09:52,959 --> 01:09:55,709
There was this alias.
There's all these
made-up people.
1473
01:09:55,792 --> 01:09:56,792
What's going on there?
1474
01:09:56,876 --> 01:09:58,334
The investigation,
at that point,
1475
01:09:58,417 --> 01:10:01,042
was still in flux, and it was
important that I preserve
1476
01:10:01,125 --> 01:10:03,375
my anonymity
as I move through it.
1477
01:10:03,459 --> 01:10:04,667
But if you want your anonymity,
1478
01:10:04,751 --> 01:10:06,459
then why are you doing
this press conference now?
1479
01:10:06,542 --> 01:10:09,125
Like, you could have
just gone to the New York
Police Department, right?
1480
01:10:09,209 --> 01:10:12,375
Burkman: Well, a lot of that--
A lot of that is up to Carolyne.
1481
01:10:12,459 --> 01:10:14,792
At the time, she made
a decision, for whatever reason,
1482
01:10:14,876 --> 01:10:15,959
we didn't know her at the time,
1483
01:10:16,042 --> 01:10:18,125
to not, to not
report it to police.
1484
01:10:18,209 --> 01:10:19,834
But is she reporting it
to police now?
1485
01:10:19,918 --> 01:10:21,375
-Like, are you going
to the cops?
-Burkman: Yes.
1486
01:10:21,459 --> 01:10:23,292
We're, we're in the process
of doing that now.
1487
01:10:23,375 --> 01:10:25,959
-Let me say something about--
-When do you expect that
to be wrapped up?
1488
01:10:26,042 --> 01:10:27,542
This is ongoing.
This is ongoing.
1489
01:10:27,626 --> 01:10:29,125
Newsman (speaking):
1490
01:10:29,209 --> 01:10:31,584
Probably, I would think,
by the end of this week.
1491
01:10:32,167 --> 01:10:33,500
At the end of next week,
next Friday.
1492
01:10:33,584 --> 01:10:36,000
You filed that, you filed
that with the NYPD, correct?
1493
01:10:36,083 --> 01:10:37,334
Burkman: We haven't,
we have not done it yet.
1494
01:10:37,417 --> 01:10:39,459
A lot of those decisions
are up to my client.
1495
01:10:39,542 --> 01:10:40,792
I'm just the lawyer.
1496
01:10:40,876 --> 01:10:43,334
We are still in the process
of gathering evidence.
1497
01:10:44,542 --> 01:10:47,250
Sommer:
The idea was that Carolyne Cass
had met Robert Mueller
1498
01:10:47,334 --> 01:10:50,959
when she was at a hotel bar
in New York a couple years ago.
1499
01:10:51,042 --> 01:10:53,459
And she claimed
that Mueller basically
1500
01:10:53,542 --> 01:10:55,459
made her go up to his room
1501
01:10:55,542 --> 01:10:57,334
and sexually assaulted her,
raped her.
1502
01:10:57,417 --> 01:11:00,000
Now, there were a couple
holes in this story.
1503
01:11:00,083 --> 01:11:02,584
Probably the biggest being that
there was a newspaper article
1504
01:11:02,667 --> 01:11:04,959
about Robert Mueller
being in DC that day
1505
01:11:05,042 --> 01:11:06,459
because he was doing jury duty.
1506
01:11:06,542 --> 01:11:09,083
There's an item
in The Washington Post
1507
01:11:09,167 --> 01:11:11,918
from that day,
uh, that spots him.
1508
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,626
It's one of those
sightings-around-town columns
1509
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:18,959
that shows someone saw him
at jury duty on that date.
1510
01:11:19,042 --> 01:11:20,959
Are you suggesting
the special counsel
1511
01:11:21,042 --> 01:11:24,500
planted a story
in The Washington Post
nine years ago?
1512
01:11:24,584 --> 01:11:26,834
Burkman:
You have information in front
of you as to his whereabouts.
1513
01:11:26,918 --> 01:11:28,667
Wait a second.
Was he only at jury duty?
1514
01:11:28,751 --> 01:11:31,834
Sometimes, people go
to jury duty, but they're
also somewhere else.
1515
01:11:32,959 --> 01:11:34,918
Was he only at jury duty?
1516
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,542
No, instead of--
Hang on, it's not funny.
1517
01:11:37,626 --> 01:11:39,626
This is not
a laughing matter.
1518
01:11:40,459 --> 01:11:43,375
He basically, literally,
said, someone can be
in two places at once.
1519
01:11:43,459 --> 01:11:45,876
♪ ♪
1520
01:11:45,959 --> 01:11:48,709
Darcy: It felt like
you had left reality
1521
01:11:48,792 --> 01:11:51,626
and entered the right-wing
media universe, like,
a physical version of it.
1522
01:11:51,709 --> 01:11:53,417
Maybe I had
gone through a portal
1523
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:56,584
when I walked into the hotel
and ended up
1524
01:11:56,667 --> 01:11:59,334
in this weird right-wing place
1525
01:11:59,417 --> 01:12:03,000
where Jack Burkman and
Jacob Wohl were holding court.
1526
01:12:03,083 --> 01:12:06,459
Thomas:
Is the whole point of this
to discredit Bob Mueller?
1527
01:12:06,542 --> 01:12:08,834
And, and if that is the case,
1528
01:12:08,918 --> 01:12:11,751
do you really think
that would shut down
the Russia investigation?
1529
01:12:11,834 --> 01:12:14,250
Uh, no, the point of this is
not to discredit anyone.
1530
01:12:14,334 --> 01:12:15,959
The point of this
is to get to the truth.
1531
01:12:16,042 --> 01:12:17,751
Reporter (speaking):
1532
01:12:17,834 --> 01:12:19,584
-Wohl: It's spelled with an "E."
-Reporter 1: It is with in "E"?
1533
01:12:19,667 --> 01:12:21,209
-That's correct, that's right.
-Reporter 2: It is with an "E"?
1534
01:12:21,292 --> 01:12:22,959
-Goldman: Wait, there's--
-Wohl: Hang on.
1535
01:12:23,042 --> 01:12:25,626
-You'll figure it out.
Okay, Ms. Cass is--
-(reporters laughing)
1536
01:12:25,709 --> 01:12:27,834
No, no, no, no,
you don't get to say that.
1537
01:12:27,918 --> 01:12:30,000
You brought us out here.
Tell us her name
1538
01:12:30,083 --> 01:12:32,500
-and all of the
identifying information.
-Wohl: Her name's right below...
1539
01:12:32,584 --> 01:12:34,584
Goldman: You know, we go
to a lot of press conferences,
1540
01:12:34,667 --> 01:12:36,542
and they can be adversarial.
1541
01:12:36,626 --> 01:12:40,667
You can have
this back and forth debate
during these news conferences,
1542
01:12:40,751 --> 01:12:43,125
but you know you're dealing with
1543
01:12:43,209 --> 01:12:44,876
genuine people
on the other side.
1544
01:12:44,959 --> 01:12:48,417
You're just not confronted
with this blatant bullshit
conspiracy.
1545
01:12:48,500 --> 01:12:50,209
And you ask yourself,
I'm a reporter.
1546
01:12:50,292 --> 01:12:53,375
I've been doing this
for 20 years. Why am I...
Why am I sitting here?
1547
01:12:53,459 --> 01:12:57,042
You know, my mission here
is not to establish a narrative.
1548
01:12:57,125 --> 01:12:58,959
It's not to follow an agenda--
1549
01:12:59,042 --> 01:13:01,125
Wait a minute.
You just established a narrative
1550
01:13:01,209 --> 01:13:03,000
-and you put it in front of us.
-Wohl: Hang on, hang on.
1551
01:13:03,083 --> 01:13:04,876
Excuse me.
It's to bring forth the facts
1552
01:13:04,959 --> 01:13:06,959
and let the facts
speak for themselves,
and that's what we've done here.
1553
01:13:07,042 --> 01:13:09,083
-Wait, one last question.
This is important.
-(reporters asking questions)
1554
01:13:09,167 --> 01:13:11,334
Where was, where was--
Hold on, I've got this.
1555
01:13:11,417 --> 01:13:14,459
Where, where was Mueller's
security detail
1556
01:13:14,542 --> 01:13:16,459
on the day he was
hitting on this woman?
1557
01:13:16,542 --> 01:13:18,167
Guys, you know what?
We got to wrap it.
Thank you all.
1558
01:13:18,250 --> 01:13:20,792
-(reporters shouting)
-We'll see you guys
on the way out.
1559
01:13:20,876 --> 01:13:23,626
Burkman:
We've done enough, guys.
I think that's enough for today.
1560
01:13:23,709 --> 01:13:27,000
-We have another, we have
another conference coming soon.
-Sommer: When?
1561
01:13:27,083 --> 01:13:29,250
Burkman:
With Carolyne, as soon as
we get her schedule.
1562
01:13:29,334 --> 01:13:32,042
Sommer: You always say there's
another press conference where
you're really gonna give us--
1563
01:13:32,125 --> 01:13:33,959
What's going on with
the Seth Rich conspiracy,
by the way?
1564
01:13:34,042 --> 01:13:36,292
-It worked out well because--
-Where's your witness for that?
1565
01:13:36,375 --> 01:13:38,250
You said you were gonna
bring a witness last time--
1566
01:13:38,334 --> 01:13:39,834
We're only here to discuss
Carolyne today.
1567
01:13:39,918 --> 01:13:42,459
-Not other matters.
-I want to discuss
your credibility.
1568
01:13:42,542 --> 01:13:44,000
You don't have much
credibility because--
1569
01:13:44,083 --> 01:13:45,959
-Burkman: Who's credibility?
-Darcy: Your credibility.
1570
01:13:46,042 --> 01:13:47,667
-Burkman: Oh, my credibility.
-You said you were gonna
bring witnesses--
1571
01:13:47,751 --> 01:13:49,500
-Wohl: We've got some civilians.
-Burkman: All right.
1572
01:13:49,584 --> 01:13:50,834
Darcy:
Why can't you
show us the document
1573
01:13:50,918 --> 01:13:52,334
showing that
you're representing her?
1574
01:13:52,417 --> 01:13:53,959
-Burkman: Uh...
-Darcy: How are
we supposed to know
1575
01:13:54,042 --> 01:13:56,542
that you're representing
this person?
We have no evidence.
1576
01:13:58,125 --> 01:13:59,500
Burkman:
Well, we do.
1577
01:13:59,584 --> 01:14:01,667
Sommer (speaking):
1578
01:14:02,083 --> 01:14:03,834
It seems like
he had the person first.
1579
01:14:03,918 --> 01:14:05,542
Then he came to you,
or what happened?
1580
01:14:05,626 --> 01:14:08,751
Uh, we'll just say
it's synergistic.
1581
01:14:08,834 --> 01:14:11,375
We'll, we'll leave it
at synergistic.
1582
01:14:11,459 --> 01:14:13,125
Darcy: The whole thing
was a circus.
1583
01:14:13,209 --> 01:14:15,292
The only serious thing
was what they were
trying to do,
1584
01:14:15,375 --> 01:14:16,959
which is slime
Robert Mueller
1585
01:14:17,042 --> 01:14:19,584
with one of the worst things
they can accuse him of.
1586
01:14:19,667 --> 01:14:22,125
He got people talking about
Robert Mueller
1587
01:14:22,209 --> 01:14:25,083
and a sexual assault allegation
in the same sentence.
1588
01:14:25,167 --> 01:14:27,876
They meant to tarnish
Bob Mueller's reputation
1589
01:14:27,959 --> 01:14:31,125
to undermine his investigation
into the president.
1590
01:14:31,209 --> 01:14:33,125
What Burkman
and Wohl were doing
1591
01:14:33,209 --> 01:14:35,209
was not only
knowingly dishonest
1592
01:14:35,292 --> 01:14:37,459
and they know that,
it was corrosive
1593
01:14:37,542 --> 01:14:38,834
and destructive.
1594
01:14:38,918 --> 01:14:41,959
This was about
throwing shit on the wall.
1595
01:14:42,042 --> 01:14:43,542
That's all
they were attempting to do.
1596
01:14:43,626 --> 01:14:46,584
To throw shit on the wall and
get somebody to write about it.
1597
01:14:46,667 --> 01:14:48,375
They would have been
very satisfied
1598
01:14:48,459 --> 01:14:50,834
if the Times had just written,
"This is nonsense."
1599
01:14:50,918 --> 01:14:52,334
Because they would Google Jacob
1600
01:14:52,417 --> 01:14:54,083
and he might have come up
on the top search
1601
01:14:54,167 --> 01:14:56,626
and he doesn't care what
context his name is used in.
1602
01:14:56,709 --> 01:14:59,042
Does he?
It doesn't seem like it.
1603
01:15:00,500 --> 01:15:02,292
Wohl: Are we trending?
That's the real question.
1604
01:15:02,375 --> 01:15:06,125
Are we trending?
I'm sure we're trending.
1605
01:15:06,209 --> 01:15:08,459
Goldman: I mean, I really was
offended by the whole thing.
1606
01:15:08,542 --> 01:15:09,918
You know, I could come back
to the Times,
1607
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,834
and the Times
trusts my judgment,
1608
01:15:11,918 --> 01:15:13,417
and I said,
I'm not writing about this.
1609
01:15:13,500 --> 01:15:14,834
I'm gonna do my due diligence.
1610
01:15:14,918 --> 01:15:16,417
I'm gonna go try
to find this woman
1611
01:15:16,500 --> 01:15:18,000
to see if there's
any there, there.
1612
01:15:18,083 --> 01:15:21,584
It's the same standard we would
treat Kavanaugh's accuser.
1613
01:15:21,667 --> 01:15:23,459
We need to find the victim,
talk to the victim,
1614
01:15:23,542 --> 01:15:25,709
interview the victim,
and then determine
1615
01:15:25,792 --> 01:15:27,042
if this is actually real.
1616
01:15:27,125 --> 01:15:29,667
Uh, but I'm not writing
about this news conference.
1617
01:15:30,542 --> 01:15:32,250
(sighs)
1618
01:15:33,542 --> 01:15:38,042
Benkler: Mainstream media
needs to understand
1619
01:15:38,125 --> 01:15:41,334
that it is operating
in a propaganda-rich
environment.
1620
01:15:41,417 --> 01:15:43,417
There are no two realities.
1621
01:15:43,500 --> 01:15:47,167
There is an intentional
deception on one side,
1622
01:15:47,250 --> 01:15:50,083
and there is an honest
if imperfect process
1623
01:15:50,167 --> 01:15:54,292
of trying to get as near
to the truth as we can
on the other.
1624
01:15:54,375 --> 01:15:57,459
♪ ♪
1625
01:16:01,375 --> 01:16:03,667
Today in the red chair again,
in the same place
1626
01:16:03,751 --> 01:16:06,334
we talked two years ago
is Tristan Harris,
1627
01:16:06,417 --> 01:16:09,500
the cofounder of the
Center for Humane Technology.
1628
01:16:09,584 --> 01:16:11,417
Harris: We spend about a fourth
of our lives now
1629
01:16:11,500 --> 01:16:12,751
in artificial social systems.
1630
01:16:12,834 --> 01:16:14,292
Meaning, in these
digital environments.
1631
01:16:14,375 --> 01:16:16,167
And that's just onscreen.
I mean, when you're off-screen,
1632
01:16:16,250 --> 01:16:17,584
-you're still thinking thoughts.
-Right.
1633
01:16:17,667 --> 01:16:19,167
That came from that
artificial social environment.
1634
01:16:19,250 --> 01:16:21,417
-Mm-hmm.
-Conspiracy theories on these,
1635
01:16:21,500 --> 01:16:23,334
you know,
magnified by these platforms,
1636
01:16:23,417 --> 01:16:24,709
times billions of people,
1637
01:16:24,792 --> 01:16:27,709
it has completely
fragmented our truth,
1638
01:16:27,792 --> 01:16:29,375
and more importantly,
the scale
1639
01:16:29,459 --> 01:16:31,292
of the disinformation
and misinformation,
1640
01:16:31,375 --> 01:16:32,792
people tend to underestimate.
1641
01:16:32,876 --> 01:16:34,792
Um, I don't think you've had
Guillaume Chaslot--
1642
01:16:34,876 --> 01:16:37,667
-Swisher: No, I haven't, but--
-but he's ex-YouTube
recommendations engineer.
1643
01:16:37,751 --> 01:16:40,000
He works with us,
and his research showed that
1644
01:16:40,083 --> 01:16:43,834
Alex Jones was recommended
15 billion times.
1645
01:16:43,918 --> 01:16:46,459
-Swisher: Right.
-There's a cover-up going on.
1646
01:16:46,542 --> 01:16:50,876
They are pulling videos
of this young man,
1647
01:16:50,959 --> 01:16:52,626
a David Hogg.
1648
01:16:52,709 --> 01:16:55,751
He's on the fake news, CNN,
known for staging things,
1649
01:16:55,834 --> 01:16:59,167
and he says over
and over again,
I am not a crisis actor.
1650
01:16:59,250 --> 01:17:00,792
I am not a crisis actor.
1651
01:17:00,876 --> 01:17:03,167
Newswoman:
Right-wing conspiracy
theories going viral
1652
01:17:03,250 --> 01:17:07,459
about David Hogg, a 17-year-old
Parkland shooting survivor.
1653
01:17:07,542 --> 01:17:11,042
The unsubstantiated claims
say he's a crisis actor,
1654
01:17:11,125 --> 01:17:12,709
a trained actor
who takes advantage
1655
01:17:12,792 --> 01:17:14,751
of tragedies
for political gain.
1656
01:17:14,834 --> 01:17:17,792
Tuesday, the conspiracy
went viral on Facebook,
1657
01:17:17,876 --> 01:17:20,000
Instagram, Twitter,
and YouTube.
1658
01:17:20,083 --> 01:17:22,709
Michalik:
Were they crisis actors?
I mean, I don't know.
1659
01:17:22,792 --> 01:17:24,751
I think the possibility exists.
1660
01:17:24,834 --> 01:17:29,834
A picture of Emma Gonzalez
tearing what appeared to be
a Constitution.
1661
01:17:29,918 --> 01:17:31,375
Was it really a Constitution?
1662
01:17:31,459 --> 01:17:33,167
Was it--
What do I think about it?
1663
01:17:33,250 --> 01:17:34,542
I think it's pretty disgraceful.
1664
01:17:34,626 --> 01:17:36,292
Why would you tear up
the Constitution?
1665
01:17:36,375 --> 01:17:38,667
Rossi: Well, so, in fact,
that photograph was fake.
1666
01:17:38,751 --> 01:17:40,250
-It was Photoshopped.
-Michalik: Okay.
1667
01:17:40,334 --> 01:17:41,417
Rossi:
She wasn't holding up--
1668
01:17:41,500 --> 01:17:42,500
Michalik:
I got you, I got you.
1669
01:17:42,584 --> 01:17:45,125
Knowing that
that was purposely
1670
01:17:46,042 --> 01:17:47,417
Photoshopped and faked?
1671
01:17:47,500 --> 01:17:48,918
Yeah, that's more upsetting
than the fact
1672
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:53,667
that she was allegedly
tearing up the Constitution.
1673
01:17:53,751 --> 01:17:55,959
Swisher: Facebook,
it's a city without signs
1674
01:17:56,042 --> 01:17:57,918
and police forces and garbage.
1675
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,417
That's the city they built.
1676
01:18:00,500 --> 01:18:03,417
What company wouldn't shut down
1677
01:18:03,500 --> 01:18:06,042
absolutely provable
false information?
1678
01:18:06,584 --> 01:18:10,000
They create the platform
where it gets spread,
1679
01:18:10,083 --> 01:18:13,417
and then are like, oh,
what can we do?
1680
01:18:13,500 --> 01:18:15,792
They hide behind
the First Amendment
1681
01:18:15,876 --> 01:18:17,667
and they are not
the government.
1682
01:18:17,751 --> 01:18:20,626
They can make choices,
they just don't want to.
1683
01:18:20,709 --> 01:18:22,042
To say fake news,
in other words,
1684
01:18:22,125 --> 01:18:24,500
I don't want your news
because it's fake,
1685
01:18:24,584 --> 01:18:27,709
is antithetical
to the principals
of the First Amendment.
1686
01:18:27,792 --> 01:18:30,042
You can't say "fire"
in a crowded theater
1687
01:18:30,125 --> 01:18:32,709
when there's no fire.
That's what Justice Holmes said.
1688
01:18:33,167 --> 01:18:35,375
Because it could lead to people
being hurt.
1689
01:18:35,459 --> 01:18:38,626
But if someone gets up
and preaches revolution
1690
01:18:38,709 --> 01:18:41,375
and there's no
imminent likelihood
1691
01:18:41,459 --> 01:18:44,167
that there's gonna be any
violence resulting from that,
1692
01:18:44,250 --> 01:18:45,959
then that speech
has to be tolerated.
1693
01:18:46,042 --> 01:18:49,626
The First Amendment says
the government can't
suppress speech,
1694
01:18:49,709 --> 01:18:52,375
but there's no reason that
platforms or communities
1695
01:18:52,459 --> 01:18:55,083
can't say this kind of
commentary's beyond the pale,
1696
01:18:55,167 --> 01:18:57,042
and people who
insist on saying this
1697
01:18:57,125 --> 01:18:58,375
are gonna suffer a penalty.
1698
01:18:58,459 --> 01:18:59,876
They're not the
federal government.
1699
01:18:59,959 --> 01:19:02,334
It's not a public square.
These are private entities.
1700
01:19:02,417 --> 01:19:03,751
They can do what they want.
1701
01:19:03,834 --> 01:19:06,042
It's just more convenient
to do nothing.
1702
01:19:06,125 --> 01:19:08,209
It's more profitable
to do nothing.
1703
01:19:09,834 --> 01:19:13,167
I'm worried about the future
for others.
1704
01:19:13,250 --> 01:19:19,500
Because what happened to me
can happen to anyone.
1705
01:19:19,584 --> 01:19:24,542
A more vulnerable person
or institution like Comet
1706
01:19:24,626 --> 01:19:26,834
would have been taken down
right away.
1707
01:19:26,918 --> 01:19:30,167
These online weapons
1708
01:19:30,250 --> 01:19:33,334
that are directed at different
people and institutions
1709
01:19:33,417 --> 01:19:38,125
have lasting consequences
and do destroy people.
1710
01:19:39,417 --> 01:19:40,876
Swisher: In the case
of Pizzagate,
1711
01:19:40,959 --> 01:19:44,000
now, to my mind, when Facebook
finds something like that,
1712
01:19:44,083 --> 01:19:45,375
they should shut it down.
1713
01:19:45,459 --> 01:19:47,417
Why did you build tools
that allow someone
1714
01:19:47,500 --> 01:19:50,375
to do that, or allow it to
iterate and iterate and iterate?
1715
01:19:50,459 --> 01:19:53,667
What tools could you build
where that isn't iterated
1716
01:19:53,751 --> 01:19:55,459
again and again?
1717
01:19:55,542 --> 01:19:58,751
White men, younger,
run Silicon Valley
1718
01:19:58,834 --> 01:20:01,834
If you don't ever feel
unsafe in your life,
1719
01:20:01,918 --> 01:20:04,375
you do not understand
lack of safety.
1720
01:20:04,459 --> 01:20:06,334
You do not build that in.
1721
01:20:06,417 --> 01:20:08,542
I had someone at Twitter
talk to me about,
1722
01:20:08,626 --> 01:20:11,375
they had gotten
attacked online,
the first time it happened.
1723
01:20:11,459 --> 01:20:13,375
And they were like,
oh, that was pretty bad.
1724
01:20:13,459 --> 01:20:15,834
And I'm like, welcome
to the world of women.
1725
01:20:15,918 --> 01:20:17,542
Welcome to the world
of people of color.
1726
01:20:17,626 --> 01:20:20,584
Welcome to the world
of marginalized people.
1727
01:20:20,667 --> 01:20:22,375
You know, this is
what it's like every day.
1728
01:20:22,459 --> 01:20:24,834
If you can think of
a really awful thing
1729
01:20:24,918 --> 01:20:26,709
that could happen
with your product,
1730
01:20:26,792 --> 01:20:29,959
you need to figure out ways
that it doesn't have
as much damage.
1731
01:20:30,042 --> 01:20:32,167
They have not spent
enough time doing that.
1732
01:20:34,250 --> 01:20:35,834
Darcy: Oliver Darcy from CNN.
1733
01:20:35,918 --> 01:20:38,000
InfoWars is pretty, I mean,
I don't know
1734
01:20:38,083 --> 01:20:39,667
if you've been to the page,
but they pretty much
1735
01:20:39,751 --> 01:20:41,667
make stuff up to get clicks
and generate revenue
1736
01:20:41,751 --> 01:20:43,000
and scare people.
1737
01:20:43,083 --> 01:20:45,709
And I can't understand
how Facebook can say,
1738
01:20:45,792 --> 01:20:47,167
we're serious about
fighting fake news
1739
01:20:47,250 --> 01:20:49,417
and false information,
but allowing InfoWars
1740
01:20:49,500 --> 01:20:51,709
and Alex Jones to profit
off your platform
1741
01:20:51,792 --> 01:20:53,751
by using it to generate
a lot of clicks.
1742
01:20:55,500 --> 01:20:56,959
Swisher: That was
an ongoing debate
1743
01:20:57,042 --> 01:20:59,125
that was happening about
Alex Jones.
1744
01:20:59,209 --> 01:21:00,959
When I did the podcast
with Mark,
1745
01:21:01,042 --> 01:21:02,709
we were starting to talk
about Alex Jones.
1746
01:21:02,792 --> 01:21:04,792
Zuckerberg: The principles
that we have on what
1747
01:21:04,876 --> 01:21:08,250
we remove from the service
are if it's going to result
1748
01:21:08,334 --> 01:21:10,459
in real harm,
real physical harm,
1749
01:21:10,542 --> 01:21:12,500
or if you're
attacking individuals,
1750
01:21:12,584 --> 01:21:14,584
then that content shouldn't
be on the platform.
1751
01:21:14,667 --> 01:21:16,834
-Swisher: Mm-hmm.
-Zuckerberg: But then, there's
1752
01:21:16,918 --> 01:21:18,667
broad debate, and--
1753
01:21:18,751 --> 01:21:22,959
Swisher: Okay, Sandy Hook
didn't happen is not a debate.
1754
01:21:23,042 --> 01:21:26,083
It is false.
You can't just take that down?
1755
01:21:26,167 --> 01:21:28,167
Zuckerberg: I agree
that it is false.
1756
01:21:28,250 --> 01:21:31,125
But overall, I mean, let's take
this a little closer to home.
1757
01:21:31,209 --> 01:21:32,626
-Right, so I'm Jewish.
-Swisher: Mm-hmm.
1758
01:21:32,709 --> 01:21:35,209
Zuckerberg: Um, and there's
a set of people who
1759
01:21:35,292 --> 01:21:36,709
deny that
the Holocaust happened.
1760
01:21:36,792 --> 01:21:38,209
-Swisher: Yes, there's a lot.
-Zuckerberg: Right, I find that
1761
01:21:38,292 --> 01:21:39,626
-deeply offensive.
-Swisher: Mm-hmm.
1762
01:21:39,709 --> 01:21:42,751
Zuckerberg: But I don't believe
that our platform
1763
01:21:42,834 --> 01:21:45,959
should take that down because
I think that there are things
1764
01:21:46,042 --> 01:21:47,918
that different people
get wrong,
1765
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:51,125
um, either, I don't think
that they're intentionally
getting it wrong,
1766
01:21:51,209 --> 01:21:52,751
-but I think that they--
-Swisher: In the case of
1767
01:21:52,834 --> 01:21:54,918
the Holocaust deniers,
they might be, but go ahead.
1768
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:57,500
Holocaust deniers
don't mean to lie.
1769
01:21:57,584 --> 01:22:00,250
And I was like, but they do.
1770
01:22:00,334 --> 01:22:03,834
So that, that, that to me
was sort of like, oh, you're
not even sophisticated enough
1771
01:22:03,918 --> 01:22:07,125
to understand that they mean
to lie, that's the whole point.
1772
01:22:07,209 --> 01:22:09,083
If someone who is running
the biggest
1773
01:22:09,167 --> 01:22:11,667
communication system
in the history of the world,
1774
01:22:11,751 --> 01:22:13,209
someone who cannot
be fired,
1775
01:22:13,292 --> 01:22:16,500
someone who has complete
control over that system,
1776
01:22:16,584 --> 01:22:19,709
does not understand
what he just said,
1777
01:22:19,792 --> 01:22:22,000
it's really--
it really struck me as,
1778
01:22:22,083 --> 01:22:23,918
it was a big
uh-oh moment for me.
1779
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:26,250
The implication that
they aren't malevolent--
1780
01:22:26,334 --> 01:22:29,125
he knows they're malevolent,
come on.
1781
01:22:29,209 --> 01:22:31,834
You can take them off.
Like, it's okay.
1782
01:22:31,918 --> 01:22:34,500
He's gonna get flak for it,
but he gets paid
1783
01:22:34,584 --> 01:22:36,667
the big bucks, right?
1784
01:22:36,751 --> 01:22:39,626
Alex Jones,
he is the founder of InfoWars,
1785
01:22:39,709 --> 01:22:42,584
and he is now
feeling the heat himself.
1786
01:22:42,667 --> 01:22:46,125
YouTube, Facebook, and Apple
all announcing
1787
01:22:46,209 --> 01:22:49,751
they are removing his content
from their platforms.
1788
01:22:49,834 --> 01:22:52,167
Rossi: What changed
in that summer?
1789
01:22:52,250 --> 01:22:54,751
Apple did it.
When Apple was like,
1790
01:22:54,834 --> 01:22:58,083
you know, enough, basta .
That's done.
1791
01:22:58,167 --> 01:23:00,876
Everybody else then goes,
oh, no, now if they do it,
1792
01:23:00,959 --> 01:23:02,792
I guess it gives us
cover to do it.
1793
01:23:02,876 --> 01:23:06,000
Apple last night
removed the entire library
1794
01:23:06,083 --> 01:23:08,626
of Alex Jones's podcast
from their store.
1795
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:11,500
And then, we saw, we've seen
throughout the day, actually,
1796
01:23:11,584 --> 01:23:14,292
tech platforms just basically
remove Alex Jones
1797
01:23:14,375 --> 01:23:15,792
from their websites.
1798
01:23:15,876 --> 01:23:18,334
He had been banned by most
platforms except for Twitter.
1799
01:23:18,417 --> 01:23:20,167
And so, he's on Capitol Hill,
1800
01:23:20,250 --> 01:23:23,667
yelling about censorship
and conservatives under fire
1801
01:23:23,751 --> 01:23:26,375
and oppression and all of this
Alex Jones' stuff.
1802
01:23:26,459 --> 01:23:29,167
And so, I was going
to cover Jack Dorsey,
1803
01:23:29,250 --> 01:23:33,292
the Twitter CEO, testifying
in front of a House Committee,
1804
01:23:33,375 --> 01:23:34,751
and I'm standing in line,
1805
01:23:34,834 --> 01:23:36,959
waiting to be
let into this room,
1806
01:23:37,042 --> 01:23:39,584
and out comes Alex Jones.
1807
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:42,250
Look at this right here.
1808
01:23:42,334 --> 01:23:44,209
The guy that goes
around policing,
1809
01:23:44,292 --> 01:23:46,459
and calling for censorship,
and then claims that
1810
01:23:46,542 --> 01:23:47,876
Trump's wrong,
there's no censorship
1811
01:23:47,959 --> 01:23:49,459
of conservatives or patriots.
1812
01:23:49,542 --> 01:23:51,292
You are incredibly shameful.
1813
01:23:51,375 --> 01:23:53,918
-How are you doing, Alex?
-You are just, look at you.
1814
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,751
You are literally
an anti-American
1815
01:23:56,834 --> 01:23:58,584
anti-free speech coward.
1816
01:23:58,667 --> 01:24:00,209
You're gonna go down
in the history books
1817
01:24:00,292 --> 01:24:01,626
at the Criminal News Network.
1818
01:24:01,709 --> 01:24:03,334
This is one of the main,
1819
01:24:03,417 --> 01:24:05,375
this is one of
the main people right here.
1820
01:24:05,459 --> 01:24:08,626
Darcy: He comes over
and starts berating me.
1821
01:24:08,709 --> 01:24:10,584
He sticks multiple cameras
in my face.
1822
01:24:10,667 --> 01:24:13,375
There's a crowd that gathers
of his right-wing supporters.
1823
01:24:13,459 --> 01:24:16,209
Come on over here, Drew.
I want to get this guy on tape.
1824
01:24:17,375 --> 01:24:19,000
This is unbelievable.
1825
01:24:19,083 --> 01:24:20,792
I was literally saying,
I don't see the
1826
01:24:20,876 --> 01:24:22,500
Criminal News Network here.
1827
01:24:22,584 --> 01:24:25,584
But indeed we do,
right there at the front
of the line at the trough.
1828
01:24:25,667 --> 01:24:28,125
Darcy: And for about ten
or 15 minutes,
1829
01:24:28,209 --> 01:24:30,250
he is just yelling in my face.
1830
01:24:30,334 --> 01:24:31,584
I mean, look at
those eyes, folks.
1831
01:24:31,667 --> 01:24:35,751
If you want to see
the eyes of a rat.
1832
01:24:35,834 --> 01:24:38,459
Sommer: Alex Jones has chosen
to latch onto
1833
01:24:38,542 --> 01:24:40,083
Oliver as a hate figure.
1834
01:24:40,167 --> 01:24:42,250
He'll pick people, and frankly
I don't think it's an accident,
1835
01:24:42,334 --> 01:24:44,584
that it's often a woman
or a person of color.
1836
01:24:44,667 --> 01:24:46,751
Just look at this
guy's eyes, man.
1837
01:24:46,834 --> 01:24:48,751
That is who
will ruin your life.
1838
01:24:48,834 --> 01:24:49,834
Look, I mean,
1839
01:24:49,918 --> 01:24:51,584
he's even more
evil-looking in person.
1840
01:24:51,667 --> 01:24:53,334
Man:
Something to think about,
the decisions that you've made.
1841
01:24:53,417 --> 01:24:56,959
The next day, Twitter bans him,
and what their reasoning was
1842
01:24:57,042 --> 01:24:58,584
to my understanding,
it's because he
1843
01:24:58,667 --> 01:25:00,667
livestreamed him berating me.
1844
01:25:00,751 --> 01:25:03,000
He used a Twitter service
to do that, Periscope.
1845
01:25:03,083 --> 01:25:05,626
It violated Twitter's rules
against targeted harassment,
1846
01:25:05,709 --> 01:25:08,334
and so,
that was his last strike.
1847
01:25:08,417 --> 01:25:10,209
That whole thing
was sort of ironic.
1848
01:25:10,292 --> 01:25:12,542
Yelling and complaining about
losing his platform
1849
01:25:12,626 --> 01:25:16,626
ended up leading to him losing
his last remaining platform,
being Twitter.
1850
01:25:16,709 --> 01:25:17,959
All: USA, USA!
1851
01:25:18,042 --> 01:25:20,500
You're the classic, hateful,
vicious leftists
1852
01:25:20,584 --> 01:25:22,542
that just wants to go out
and attack people.
1853
01:25:22,626 --> 01:25:25,542
-Shame on you, shame on you.
-You were telling lies, bro.
1854
01:25:25,626 --> 01:25:28,125
-You don't know nothing.
-You're disgusting.
1855
01:25:28,209 --> 01:25:31,292
You're unbelievably
anti-free speech as well.
1856
01:25:31,375 --> 01:25:34,042
You know nothing.
Nothing.
1857
01:25:34,125 --> 01:25:36,751
Reporter (speaking):
1858
01:25:43,459 --> 01:25:46,250
He's a public figure,
in his job,
1859
01:25:46,334 --> 01:25:47,500
in a public space.
1860
01:25:47,584 --> 01:25:50,083
He's lied about me,
and actively
1861
01:25:50,167 --> 01:25:52,834
full-time lobbied to have me
removed off platforms
1862
01:25:52,918 --> 01:25:54,167
and bragged about it.
1863
01:25:54,250 --> 01:25:56,250
And so, I see
a modern book-burner,
1864
01:25:56,334 --> 01:25:58,918
who also misrepresents
what I've said,
1865
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,500
and I tell him that I think
he's the embodiment of evil,
1866
01:26:02,584 --> 01:26:05,876
a big corporation working
behind the scenes
1867
01:26:06,584 --> 01:26:08,626
and publicly to silence people.
1868
01:26:08,709 --> 01:26:11,000
He is a book-burning monster.
1869
01:26:12,918 --> 01:26:15,417
Williamson: When I first
visited Alex Jones,
1870
01:26:15,500 --> 01:26:18,083
he told me that there were
snipers on the roof,
1871
01:26:18,167 --> 01:26:20,584
which he then called me
the next day to clarify
1872
01:26:20,667 --> 01:26:22,375
he had made that up
and there actually
1873
01:26:22,459 --> 01:26:25,375
aren't any snipers on the roof.
1874
01:26:25,459 --> 01:26:28,751
His offices
are in a part of Austin
1875
01:26:28,834 --> 01:26:31,918
he doesn't want you
to reveal or talk about.
1876
01:26:33,500 --> 01:26:35,167
It's smoked windows.
1877
01:26:35,250 --> 01:26:38,709
It's surveillance
video cameras everywhere.
1878
01:26:38,792 --> 01:26:41,167
He has a kind of genius
business model.
1879
01:26:41,250 --> 01:26:43,542
He spews out these theories,
1880
01:26:43,626 --> 01:26:45,375
and then,
at the beginning and end
1881
01:26:45,459 --> 01:26:48,334
of every program,
he's selling you something.
1882
01:26:48,417 --> 01:26:52,876
And what he sells
feeds that sense of paranoia
1883
01:26:52,959 --> 01:26:55,083
and feeling of being besieged
1884
01:26:55,167 --> 01:26:58,083
that a lot of his listeners
and followers have.
1885
01:26:58,167 --> 01:27:02,000
This is a guy who sells
vitamin B,
1886
01:27:02,083 --> 01:27:06,876
male virility products,
and special kooky foods
1887
01:27:07,500 --> 01:27:10,667
by spreading these theories
that damage people's lives.
1888
01:27:10,751 --> 01:27:14,459
Sandy Hook, it's got inside job
written all over it.
1889
01:27:14,542 --> 01:27:16,709
These are dead children,
and he put out
1890
01:27:16,792 --> 01:27:18,626
all this
false information about it.
1891
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:21,125
And kept saying,
"It's free speech,
free speech!"
1892
01:27:21,209 --> 01:27:22,250
No, it's not.
1893
01:27:22,334 --> 01:27:23,417
Williamson:
The Sandy Hook families
1894
01:27:23,500 --> 01:27:25,417
have been begging for years
1895
01:27:25,500 --> 01:27:28,626
to have this or that piece
of video removed,
1896
01:27:28,709 --> 01:27:31,918
this or that Facebook post,
this or that tweet.
1897
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:36,417
And often times, they feel like
that fell on deaf ears.
1898
01:27:36,500 --> 01:27:40,000
"Deplatformed" is such
a bloodless term, you know?
1899
01:27:40,083 --> 01:27:42,542
I've been deplatformed.
What does that even mean?
1900
01:27:42,626 --> 01:27:45,167
And when you talk with
the families, they'll say,
1901
01:27:45,250 --> 01:27:46,667
you know what
that means to me?
1902
01:27:46,751 --> 01:27:50,209
For the first time, it means
I'm not afraid to open my mail.
1903
01:27:50,959 --> 01:27:54,083
You know, that I'm gonna see
a threat from someone.
1904
01:27:54,167 --> 01:27:56,500
And that threat
coming in my mailbox
1905
01:27:56,584 --> 01:27:57,959
means they know where I live.
1906
01:27:58,042 --> 01:28:02,250
Just like James Alefantis,
just like Seth Rich's family,
1907
01:28:02,334 --> 01:28:03,584
they want to know.
1908
01:28:03,667 --> 01:28:06,334
Does the First Amendment
actually protect
1909
01:28:06,417 --> 01:28:09,125
the types of claims
that have caused us
1910
01:28:09,209 --> 01:28:10,834
such damage and such harm?
1911
01:28:10,918 --> 01:28:13,209
And you know,
had one of them said,
1912
01:28:13,292 --> 01:28:16,209
you know, this makes me
feel like in 30 years
1913
01:28:16,292 --> 01:28:20,500
truth will be what pops up first
when you search on Google.
1914
01:28:20,584 --> 01:28:23,584
You know, if you type
Sandy Hook into Google,
1915
01:28:23,667 --> 01:28:25,542
and this content
isn't taken down,
1916
01:28:25,626 --> 01:28:28,542
and the purveyors of
this content aren't taken down,
1917
01:28:28,626 --> 01:28:31,334
the first thing you'll see
is that it was a hoax.
1918
01:28:31,417 --> 01:28:34,709
So then these people have
actually changed reality.
1919
01:28:38,500 --> 01:28:41,667
Pape: The only way you fight
this sort of fake news
1920
01:28:41,751 --> 01:28:43,000
is with the truth.
1921
01:28:43,083 --> 01:28:45,459
I mean, I don't know of
any other way to do it.
1922
01:28:45,542 --> 01:28:47,667
You certainly don't fight it
with fake news.
1923
01:28:47,751 --> 01:28:52,417
You don't win that battle
by, um, playing their game.
1924
01:28:54,042 --> 01:28:58,334
Benkler: One of the most
important targets
1925
01:28:58,417 --> 01:29:03,167
of propaganda, and this is
true of Russian propaganda
in Russia,
1926
01:29:03,250 --> 01:29:06,042
it's true of propaganda
in the United States,
1927
01:29:06,125 --> 01:29:10,667
is to achieve this state
of disorientation,
1928
01:29:10,751 --> 01:29:14,417
this denial of the idea that
there is a truth of the matter.
1929
01:29:14,500 --> 01:29:16,834
Challenging what is knowable
1930
01:29:16,918 --> 01:29:19,667
is a fundamental way
of upending a system
1931
01:29:19,751 --> 01:29:21,709
and making it impossible
to govern.
1932
01:29:21,792 --> 01:29:24,709
It's also a way to ensure that
you and I can't ever
1933
01:29:24,792 --> 01:29:26,792
come to compromise on anything.
1934
01:29:26,876 --> 01:29:29,959
♪ ♪
1935
01:29:33,375 --> 01:29:35,083
Alefantis: This community
is really somewhere
1936
01:29:35,167 --> 01:29:38,334
that's based in truth
1937
01:29:38,417 --> 01:29:41,000
and reality.
1938
01:29:41,083 --> 01:29:43,042
An online community
is one thing,
1939
01:29:43,125 --> 01:29:45,542
but a physical place where
you're playing ping-pong
1940
01:29:45,626 --> 01:29:48,751
with someone, eating,
breaking bread over the table,
1941
01:29:48,834 --> 01:29:50,292
you're able
to actually communicate
1942
01:29:50,375 --> 01:29:51,751
with the people around you.
1943
01:29:51,834 --> 01:29:53,334
So if someone were to say,
1944
01:29:53,417 --> 01:29:55,167
wow, this crazy thing
is happening.
1945
01:29:55,250 --> 01:29:56,459
Did you hear about it?
1946
01:29:56,542 --> 01:29:58,459
Across the table, one might say,
1947
01:29:58,542 --> 01:30:00,334
oh, that thing
isn't really happening.
1948
01:30:00,417 --> 01:30:03,459
Man: God is going to
throw you into Hell.
1949
01:30:03,542 --> 01:30:04,751
(clamoring)
1950
01:30:04,834 --> 01:30:06,417
Alefantis: It is hard, still.
1951
01:30:06,500 --> 01:30:08,417
We've been under
continued threat.
1952
01:30:08,500 --> 01:30:10,375
The daily messaging
that I get now
1953
01:30:10,459 --> 01:30:14,417
about people wanting to kill me
or that I should be dead
1954
01:30:14,500 --> 01:30:16,667
is, you know,
a hard thing to deal with.
1955
01:30:16,751 --> 01:30:19,792
So that's just
part of my life now.
1956
01:30:25,042 --> 01:30:27,918
But the community saved us.
1957
01:30:30,292 --> 01:30:31,417
Like, it's the community.
1958
01:30:31,500 --> 01:30:34,834
They, like,
saved the restaurant, basically.
1959
01:30:34,918 --> 01:30:38,542
And also were, like,
you need to open.
1960
01:30:39,334 --> 01:30:41,083
On Monday.
1961
01:30:41,167 --> 01:30:43,250
And I was like...
1962
01:30:43,334 --> 01:30:45,292
we're not opening on Monday.
1963
01:30:45,375 --> 01:30:46,626
We're, we're never opening.
1964
01:30:46,709 --> 01:30:49,125
Like, this restaurant
is not gonna be open again,
1965
01:30:49,209 --> 01:30:51,834
was my thought, feeling
and response.
1966
01:30:53,083 --> 01:30:55,167
We called a meeting
of the staff
1967
01:30:55,250 --> 01:30:57,792
and was like,
what do you want to do?
1968
01:30:57,876 --> 01:31:00,417
And I said to them,
1969
01:31:00,500 --> 01:31:02,459
you know, I can take
every precaution.
1970
01:31:02,542 --> 01:31:06,375
We would have armed guards
at the doors,
1971
01:31:06,459 --> 01:31:08,918
police surrounding the building
1972
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,542
to open our pizza place
when we can.
1973
01:31:12,626 --> 01:31:15,542
But I was like, I don't
want to really open
1974
01:31:15,626 --> 01:31:18,167
because I'm scared.
1975
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:22,042
And, you know, in my head,
but I'm like,
1976
01:31:22,125 --> 01:31:23,375
but what do you want to do?
1977
01:31:23,459 --> 01:31:25,667
And this
20-something-year-old staff
1978
01:31:25,751 --> 01:31:27,792
was like, we need to open.
1979
01:31:29,250 --> 01:31:31,417
Because...
1980
01:31:31,500 --> 01:31:34,292
Comet is not gonna be
defeated or something.
1981
01:31:34,375 --> 01:31:36,751
Or like,
this community needs us.
1982
01:31:36,834 --> 01:31:39,042
So we were able to open
1983
01:31:39,125 --> 01:31:42,292
because they wanted to.
1984
01:31:42,375 --> 01:31:44,792
And the support
of this community
1985
01:31:44,876 --> 01:31:46,667
who also were calling
the restaurant
1986
01:31:46,751 --> 01:31:49,709
saying we want to come there
right now.
1987
01:31:49,792 --> 01:31:51,709
Like, a gunman has come through,
1988
01:31:51,792 --> 01:31:53,500
and literally, they're calling,
being like,
1989
01:31:53,584 --> 01:31:55,626
when can we bring our kids
to have pizza?
1990
01:31:55,709 --> 01:31:58,125
You can't close.
1991
01:31:58,209 --> 01:32:02,083
♪ ♪
1992
01:32:10,209 --> 01:32:12,292
♪ ♪
1993
01:32:17,834 --> 01:32:19,125
Like, it's a simple recipe:
1994
01:32:19,209 --> 01:32:22,709
It's family,
community and truth,
1995
01:32:22,792 --> 01:32:26,250
like that's what,
that's why we're here.
1996
01:32:29,209 --> 01:32:31,292
♪ ♪
1997
01:32:41,667 --> 01:32:43,751
♪ ♪
1998
01:32:57,209 --> 01:33:00,292
♪ ♪
1999
01:33:30,167 --> 01:33:32,209
♪ ♪
2000
01:34:41,667 --> 01:34:43,751
♪ ♪