WEBVTT FILE 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:34.773 --> 00:00:36.558 [upbeat music] 4 00:00:36.688 --> 00:00:38.864 Please welcome our panel of Power Dykes. 5 00:00:38.995 --> 00:00:41.476 Frances Stevens, publisher and editor-in-chief 6 00:00:41.606 --> 00:00:43.826 of "Deneuve," the hottest lesbian magazine. 7 00:00:46.698 --> 00:00:48.787 REPORTER: "Deneuve," the leading lesbian magazine.... 8 00:00:48.918 --> 00:00:52.574 -There wasn't a glossy magazine for lesbians. Anywhere! 9 00:00:52.704 --> 00:00:54.706 -She decided one day I'm gonna make one. 10 00:00:54.793 --> 00:00:56.186 That's total rock-n-roll. 11 00:01:00.103 --> 00:01:01.496 I love my job! [kiss, laughter] 12 00:01:01.626 --> 00:01:03.411 I love my job. I love my job. 13 00:01:04.151 --> 00:01:06.762 -There hadn't been a lesbian lifestyle magazine before. 14 00:01:06.892 --> 00:01:10.331 -"Deneuve" gave the community the gift of connection in a time 15 00:01:10.461 --> 00:01:12.115 when it wasn't okay to be a lesbian. 16 00:01:15.162 --> 00:01:17.120 -We were excited because it was like 17 00:01:17.251 --> 00:01:18.295 all the other magazines, 18 00:01:18.426 --> 00:01:20.819 which in 1990, that did not happen. 19 00:01:20.906 --> 00:01:24.127 -This magazine was really gonna change things. 20 00:01:24.258 --> 00:01:25.868 -I know lesbians, including myself, 21 00:01:25.955 --> 00:01:27.130 who collected every issue. 22 00:01:29.654 --> 00:01:34.094 -One of the principles of social change for lesbians 23 00:01:34.224 --> 00:01:36.052 has been visibility. 24 00:01:36.139 --> 00:01:38.881 -Lesbian visibility is absolutely essential 25 00:01:39.011 --> 00:01:42.232 if we want anyone coming of age now to think 26 00:01:42.363 --> 00:01:43.668 that there's a culture worth joining. 27 00:01:46.454 --> 00:01:48.108 -I definitely would go to the bookstore 28 00:01:48.238 --> 00:01:49.761 and read "Curve" magazine. 29 00:01:49.892 --> 00:01:51.415 -Whoever was in "Curve", that was it. 30 00:01:51.546 --> 00:01:52.938 That's how you knew what was going on. 31 00:01:53.025 --> 00:01:54.897 -Like the latest musicians, the latest artists. 32 00:01:55.027 --> 00:01:55.985 -Yep! 33 00:01:58.248 --> 00:02:01.991 -Franco just explodes on the scene with pride 34 00:02:02.122 --> 00:02:04.646 and with elegance and honesty. 35 00:02:07.953 --> 00:02:12.480 -Just to bring a magazine to the newsstands so that lesbians 36 00:02:12.610 --> 00:02:14.177 could see a little bit of themselves reflected 37 00:02:14.308 --> 00:02:18.399 on the pages required a lot of courage and tremendous grit, 38 00:02:18.529 --> 00:02:21.489 and no doubt, significant sacrifice. 39 00:02:36.417 --> 00:02:37.505 [wheels rolling lightly along sidewalk] 40 00:02:39.202 --> 00:02:41.291 [buzz of scooter motor, dog's tags clinking] 41 00:02:57.264 --> 00:02:58.482 [car door opens] 42 00:02:59.483 --> 00:03:01.355 -Can I take your tea? -Oh, thank you. 43 00:03:07.317 --> 00:03:08.188 Up, up. 44 00:03:08.318 --> 00:03:09.754 Whoo! Your paws are wet. 45 00:03:13.628 --> 00:03:15.238 [engine rumbles] 46 00:03:23.986 --> 00:03:25.727 -Oh, right on the dress. 47 00:03:34.518 --> 00:03:35.650 Okay. 48 00:03:50.926 --> 00:03:52.797 What's going on? 49 00:03:52.928 --> 00:03:54.886 -I got this email from Silke. 50 00:03:56.758 --> 00:03:58.020 She wants to talk. 51 00:04:12.817 --> 00:04:13.992 Doesn't sound good. 52 00:04:25.134 --> 00:04:26.831 -Are you all right? -Yeah. 53 00:04:28.224 --> 00:04:29.486 -Okay. 54 00:04:29.617 --> 00:04:30.705 Can I have a kiss? 55 00:04:32.881 --> 00:04:34.709 Can I have a better one? 56 00:04:37.451 --> 00:04:40.149 Thank you. -Of course. 57 00:04:55.338 --> 00:04:58.298 [many conversations throughout the lobby] 58 00:05:07.045 --> 00:05:10.484 [gentle guitar music] 59 00:05:31.287 --> 00:05:35.030 It's really cool seeing this dichotomy of really, 60 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:36.205 like, those people in the lobby. 61 00:05:36.336 --> 00:05:37.902 Was that a mother and her child? 62 00:05:38.033 --> 00:05:41.993 Or was that just an older woman [laughing] and a teenager? 63 00:05:42.124 --> 00:05:44.387 -I don't know. 64 00:05:44.518 --> 00:05:46.781 I don't know, but I like that you used the word "dichotomy." 65 00:05:46.911 --> 00:05:49.349 -Ahh!!! [laughs] 66 00:06:02.884 --> 00:06:04.842 [video call rings] 67 00:06:04.973 --> 00:06:06.278 -Can you hear me? 68 00:06:06.409 --> 00:06:08.193 -I can hear you, but I can't see you. 69 00:06:08.324 --> 00:06:09.194 -Oh. -Oh! 70 00:06:09.325 --> 00:06:11.196 Now I can see you. 71 00:06:11.327 --> 00:06:13.503 Now you're jumping all over the place. 72 00:06:13.634 --> 00:06:14.765 So, what's been going on over there? 73 00:06:14.896 --> 00:06:16.941 Your email was a little alarming. 74 00:06:19.727 --> 00:06:21.511 -Well, the one that said, "I don't know if we'll 75 00:06:21.642 --> 00:06:23.078 be in business in a year." I guess that one. 76 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:29.650 -What do you need me to do? 77 00:06:29.780 --> 00:06:31.086 What can I do to be helpful? 78 00:06:34.698 --> 00:06:35.569 -Mmhmm. 79 00:06:47.232 --> 00:06:49.670 -You know, something has to... 80 00:06:49.757 --> 00:06:53.151 has to shift in order 81 00:06:53.282 --> 00:06:57.417 for "Curve" to keep going in whatever format that is. 82 00:06:57.547 --> 00:06:59.375 -Yes. 83 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:09.341 -I think she's lost. 84 00:07:09.472 --> 00:07:11.126 -Mm. 85 00:07:11.256 --> 00:07:12.736 Yeah. And who am I 86 00:07:12.867 --> 00:07:16.697 to point fingers for things that I believe are 87 00:07:16.827 --> 00:07:19.264 not the right decision that she's made along the way? 88 00:07:19.395 --> 00:07:20.918 -Are you kidding me?! 89 00:07:21.049 --> 00:07:22.485 Who are you?! 90 00:07:24.487 --> 00:07:28.186 -I lost the right to criticize. 91 00:07:31.538 --> 00:07:33.409 Are you biting your lip? -A little bit. 92 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:37.413 [quiet laugh] Yeah, I don't, I don't.... 93 00:07:39.459 --> 00:07:43.550 You know, it's like, in the last 24 hours, I heard this thing 94 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.161 that I never wanted to hear that the magazine 95 00:07:46.291 --> 00:07:48.163 could be coming to an end. 96 00:07:48.293 --> 00:07:50.339 Should it come to an end? 97 00:07:50.470 --> 00:07:53.473 Or should it change into something else? 98 00:07:53.603 --> 00:07:56.214 -Right. -So, what does it become? 99 00:07:56.301 --> 00:07:59.000 I don't know. I really don't. 100 00:08:01.437 --> 00:08:03.483 -So, then I guess the big question is, do you wanna be 101 00:08:03.613 --> 00:08:05.528 part of figuring out what it is? 102 00:08:07.835 --> 00:08:09.314 [pensive music] 103 00:08:09.445 --> 00:08:10.446 GERALDO: Hi, everybody, and welcome to a show 104 00:08:10.577 --> 00:08:13.057 that's all about power dykes. [applause] 105 00:08:13.188 --> 00:08:15.538 They are here, and they are queer. 106 00:08:15.669 --> 00:08:18.498 Frances Stevens, at 26 years old, how long have you been 107 00:08:18.628 --> 00:08:20.325 a self-described lesbian? 108 00:08:20.456 --> 00:08:22.937 -A self-described lesbian. 109 00:08:23.024 --> 00:08:24.982 I was actually married for three and a half years. 110 00:08:25.113 --> 00:08:26.854 -Ah, I didn't know. 111 00:08:34.165 --> 00:08:37.212 And may the great spirit watch over you, amen. 112 00:08:37.342 --> 00:08:38.996 [applause] 113 00:08:39.910 --> 00:08:42.522 FRANCO: It was a really expensive, elaborate, 114 00:08:42.652 --> 00:08:44.959 beautiful, amazing day. 115 00:08:46.569 --> 00:08:48.397 I was living the fairy tale. 116 00:08:49.964 --> 00:08:52.140 Here was this great guy. 117 00:08:52.270 --> 00:08:54.055 Everything was great with my family. 118 00:08:56.274 --> 00:08:58.233 And I had no idea that I was gay. 119 00:09:01.018 --> 00:09:04.761 [pensive music fades into "Jesse's Girl"] 120 00:09:04.892 --> 00:09:07.503 I didn't know any out gay people when I was growing up. 121 00:09:08.373 --> 00:09:12.726 There was one character on a TV show that was a gay guy. 122 00:09:12.856 --> 00:09:15.642 I went to school at San Francisco State University. 123 00:09:15.772 --> 00:09:17.295 There was one prerequisite called 124 00:09:17.426 --> 00:09:19.167 Variations in Human Sexuality. 125 00:09:19.297 --> 00:09:21.125 It's like as if somebody hit me over the head 126 00:09:21.256 --> 00:09:22.823 with a baseball bat. 127 00:09:22.953 --> 00:09:25.434 Like they explained what being a lesbian was. 128 00:09:25.565 --> 00:09:27.349 I just knew, all of a sudden, that that was me. 129 00:09:27.436 --> 00:09:29.525 It was like somebody just said, "Wake up!" 130 00:09:29.699 --> 00:09:32.223 ♪ Why can't I find a woman like that? ♪ 131 00:09:33.311 --> 00:09:34.486 Wait a second. 132 00:09:34.617 --> 00:09:36.184 The fairy tale has just been blown up. 133 00:09:36.314 --> 00:09:37.446 What do I do? 134 00:09:37.838 --> 00:09:40.231 [somber music] 135 00:09:40.362 --> 00:09:43.670 I think we should do away with gays if possible. 136 00:09:43.800 --> 00:09:45.367 You can't hold hands in public. 137 00:09:45.497 --> 00:09:46.455 You can't be affectionate in public. 138 00:09:46.586 --> 00:09:47.761 It's a hard road. 139 00:09:47.891 --> 00:09:49.197 We have got nothing behind us legally. 140 00:09:50.938 --> 00:09:55.856 -I was shell-shocked to work the phone lines 141 00:09:55.986 --> 00:09:58.119 at the National Center for Lesbian Rights 142 00:09:58.249 --> 00:10:00.861 and to take call after call 143 00:10:00.991 --> 00:10:04.778 from lesbians, and also gay men, who 144 00:10:04.908 --> 00:10:06.518 had been kicked out of their families, 145 00:10:06.649 --> 00:10:08.216 lost custody of their kids, 146 00:10:08.346 --> 00:10:10.522 been fired from their jobs, 147 00:10:10.610 --> 00:10:14.222 been stripped of a sense of hope and future. 148 00:10:14.352 --> 00:10:20.837 I could not believe how devoid of just the most basic sense 149 00:10:20.968 --> 00:10:26.234 of belonging and dignity existed for LGBT people in this country. 150 00:10:26.364 --> 00:10:28.279 You had Don't Ask Don't Tell. 151 00:10:28.366 --> 00:10:29.629 REPORTER: Gays could reveal their status 152 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:31.369 only at their own risk. 153 00:10:31.456 --> 00:10:35.069 Being homosexual is still grounds for dismissal. 154 00:10:35.199 --> 00:10:38.812 -We need to protect our social and moral foundations. 155 00:10:39.160 --> 00:10:40.117 KATE: You had Bill Clinton 156 00:10:40.248 --> 00:10:42.076 signing The Defense of Marriage Act. 157 00:10:42.206 --> 00:10:44.426 REPORTER: States are not obliged to recognize 158 00:10:44.556 --> 00:10:46.907 the legal gay marriage of another state. 159 00:10:47.037 --> 00:10:50.998 KATE: You did not have openly gay, queer elected officials. 160 00:10:51.085 --> 00:10:55.437 You did not have celebrities who were out and proud. 161 00:10:55.567 --> 00:10:58.266 We did not see ourselves represented 162 00:10:58.396 --> 00:11:01.486 in any positive mainstream way. 163 00:11:01.878 --> 00:11:04.881 -I love you! -Come on. 164 00:11:05.012 --> 00:11:08.755 -Cindy, what's wrong with you? -What do you mean? 165 00:11:09.538 --> 00:11:13.498 -All this touching and hugging girls and, "I love you." 166 00:11:13.585 --> 00:11:17.720 Boy, are you strange. -Well, I didn't mean anything. 167 00:11:17.851 --> 00:11:19.809 -I'll just bet. 168 00:11:19.940 --> 00:11:22.856 You better think about what you mean. [tsk] 169 00:11:31.865 --> 00:11:32.909 JEN: Frank, what if this magazine 170 00:11:33.040 --> 00:11:35.129 goes out of business in the next year? 171 00:11:35.259 --> 00:11:37.044 FRANCO: It's very likely that it could. 172 00:11:39.307 --> 00:11:41.570 -And? -And will people care? 173 00:11:42.527 --> 00:11:45.617 I don't know what other people think, you know? 174 00:11:45.748 --> 00:11:52.407 The magazine was a way, it was a vehicle for lesbians to disperse 175 00:11:52.537 --> 00:11:56.628 information to other lesbians. Now, anyone can do a blog. 176 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:59.675 Anyone can have their own YouTube channel. 177 00:12:01.808 --> 00:12:04.506 It's much more immediate. 178 00:12:04.636 --> 00:12:07.683 It gives way more access to the people. 179 00:12:07.770 --> 00:12:10.991 I think the year I started the magazine there were 180 00:12:11.121 --> 00:12:15.560 over 700 magazines founded that year. 181 00:12:15.691 --> 00:12:17.606 I remember hearing a statistic that there were like 182 00:12:17.737 --> 00:12:19.826 6 or 7 of those left. 183 00:12:22.916 --> 00:12:26.746 30 years! That's a long time, you know? 184 00:12:29.226 --> 00:12:31.054 -I guess we'll see what people think tomorrow. 185 00:12:32.490 --> 00:12:35.493 [high energy music] 186 00:12:36.625 --> 00:12:39.062 [happy crowds cheering] 187 00:12:46.722 --> 00:12:48.680 -Is anybody gonna come to our panel? 188 00:12:48.811 --> 00:12:50.857 -[laughs] -Maybe no one will come. 189 00:12:58.647 --> 00:13:00.257 -Hey! -Hey!! 190 00:13:00.344 --> 00:13:01.693 -Hey, Andrea. Nice to meet you. 191 00:13:01.824 --> 00:13:03.826 -Yeah, nice to meet you too. 192 00:13:03.913 --> 00:13:06.568 We thought we would start just with a quick introduction. 193 00:13:06.655 --> 00:13:09.527 Franco Stevens, who's the woman who started "Curve" Magazine, 194 00:13:09.658 --> 00:13:11.965 which is the longest-running, best-selling 195 00:13:12.095 --> 00:13:13.967 lesbian magazine in the world. 196 00:13:14.097 --> 00:13:16.099 [room fills with applause, cheers] 197 00:13:18.014 --> 00:13:20.887 When I started the magazine, it was a big controversy: 198 00:13:20.974 --> 00:13:24.064 Do I put the word "lesbian" on the cover? 199 00:13:24.194 --> 00:13:26.022 And women were like, "You can't do that. 200 00:13:26.153 --> 00:13:27.632 No bookstores will carry it. 201 00:13:27.719 --> 00:13:30.766 I can't be seen buying this thing." 202 00:13:30.897 --> 00:13:35.684 I mean, I can't even verbalize today how much I was ridiculed 203 00:13:35.815 --> 00:13:38.905 and bashed, even from within our own community, by putting 204 00:13:39.035 --> 00:13:41.037 the word "lesbian" on the cover. 205 00:13:41.168 --> 00:13:46.695 And I just wanna know by a show of hands, how many of you are 206 00:13:46.826 --> 00:13:51.961 still embracing of that or okay if people identify as lesbian? 207 00:13:52.092 --> 00:13:53.833 Can you raise your hand? 208 00:13:53.963 --> 00:13:56.618 That's way more than I thought. 209 00:13:56.748 --> 00:13:59.316 How many of you think it's outdated 210 00:13:59.403 --> 00:14:01.449 and doesn't represent our community? 211 00:14:01.579 --> 00:14:04.278 A couple people. Thank you for being honest. 212 00:14:10.545 --> 00:14:12.634 It's made a difference. It's made an impact. 213 00:14:12.721 --> 00:14:15.593 Why do we wanna erase it from our history? 214 00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:18.031 -I, personally, would never use it to describe myself because 215 00:14:18.161 --> 00:14:20.642 I feel like it's been co-opted by straight men 216 00:14:20.772 --> 00:14:23.645 as this overly sexualized term. 217 00:14:23.775 --> 00:14:26.909 FRANCO: We've heard from multiple women of a certain age 218 00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:29.520 [laughter] who are feeling like they're becoming invisible, 219 00:14:29.607 --> 00:14:33.176 like they're being cast aside. 220 00:14:33.307 --> 00:14:36.310 -I use either lesbian or queer interchangeably. 221 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.182 But a lot of folks in Gen Z are actually more likely to identify 222 00:14:39.313 --> 00:14:41.576 as queer or pan or bi. 223 00:14:41.706 --> 00:14:44.187 And there's nothing wrong with that, but again, it's this idea, 224 00:14:44.318 --> 00:14:46.407 is the word exclusionary? 225 00:14:46.494 --> 00:14:48.496 SEVERAL: Yes. Yeah. 226 00:14:48.626 --> 00:14:50.977 -Some lesbians spaces can be super inclusive, but there is 227 00:14:51.107 --> 00:14:53.849 also a history of lesbians not being so inclusive. 228 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:56.634 -Yeah. -I identify as a trans woman. 229 00:14:56.765 --> 00:14:59.159 And I'm not super comfortable with the word "lesbian," 230 00:14:59.246 --> 00:15:03.554 but I do feel safe using "queer" because I feel like 231 00:15:03.685 --> 00:15:05.295 it is a broader term. 232 00:15:05.426 --> 00:15:08.820 It is sort of a, I know that queer spaces are safe spaces. 233 00:15:08.951 --> 00:15:10.779 FRANCO: I can totally understand that. 234 00:15:10.910 --> 00:15:14.391 You know, a lot of old-school lesbians are trans exclusionary 235 00:15:14.478 --> 00:15:17.133 radical feminists. We call them TERFS. 236 00:15:17.264 --> 00:15:19.092 -I think "lesbian" is an important word 'cause 237 00:15:19.222 --> 00:15:21.355 it describes exactly who you are. 238 00:15:21.485 --> 00:15:24.924 But inside the group, there's a really hot and heavy 239 00:15:25.054 --> 00:15:26.403 discussion about it. 240 00:15:26.534 --> 00:15:29.232 -The only word that anybody seems to globally have 241 00:15:29.363 --> 00:15:32.061 an issue with is the one word that women can own 242 00:15:32.192 --> 00:15:33.497 for themselves that is about women. 243 00:15:33.628 --> 00:15:35.238 -Exactly. 244 00:15:35.325 --> 00:15:37.197 -I totally understand that the word "lesbian" can feel 245 00:15:37.327 --> 00:15:40.330 exclusionary to a woman who loves women 246 00:15:40.461 --> 00:15:42.332 who doesn't identify as a lesbian. 247 00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:45.422 But that's the one word that we have that is only ours 248 00:15:45.553 --> 00:15:46.902 and nobody else's. 249 00:15:48.164 --> 00:15:50.384 ANDREA: So, I actually just came out to my abuela in December. 250 00:15:50.514 --> 00:15:53.517 And I was like, "Abuela, soy lesbiana." 251 00:15:53.648 --> 00:15:56.868 And she's just like... "¿!¡En serio!?" 252 00:15:56.999 --> 00:15:58.174 [laughter] 253 00:15:58.305 --> 00:16:00.611 And that was it. She's just like, "Really!" 254 00:16:00.698 --> 00:16:02.439 I was like, "Oh, you know." 255 00:16:02.570 --> 00:16:04.746 Like, "I knew that there was no guy ever good enough for you, 256 00:16:04.876 --> 00:16:06.269 but now it all makes sense." I was like.... 257 00:16:06.400 --> 00:16:09.359 [laughter, applause] 258 00:16:09.446 --> 00:16:12.014 I was so shocked. 259 00:16:12.145 --> 00:16:14.190 And the worst comment she said was like, 260 00:16:14.321 --> 00:16:16.192 "But vaginas are so much work." And I was just like.... 261 00:16:16.323 --> 00:16:18.325 [boisterous laughter] 262 00:16:18.455 --> 00:16:22.459 Like, I somehow ended up here in this conversation. 263 00:16:23.895 --> 00:16:27.203 By being visibly queer and being visibly Latinx, I can hopefully 264 00:16:27.334 --> 00:16:29.379 make it easier for younger folks in my family 265 00:16:29.510 --> 00:16:31.338 and other folks in my community. 266 00:16:31.425 --> 00:16:34.167 Regardless of whatever word you choose or what label you want to 267 00:16:34.297 --> 00:16:36.996 attribute to yourself, literally being visible 268 00:16:37.126 --> 00:16:38.127 is the most important thing you can be. 269 00:16:38.258 --> 00:16:39.607 [applause] 270 00:16:41.913 --> 00:16:43.437 ANDREA: You know what's funny? 271 00:16:43.567 --> 00:16:44.829 I didn't pick up a "Curve" magazine till I was in college. 272 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.180 And I literally picked it up when I was in a journalism class 273 00:16:47.267 --> 00:16:49.182 my freshman year. I was like, what is this? 274 00:16:49.312 --> 00:16:51.575 And I just got so excited because, as it is, I was just so 275 00:16:51.662 --> 00:16:54.491 excited to see a magazine about women that wasn't sexualized. 276 00:16:54.578 --> 00:16:57.755 You know, going and hearing all these women say, "I'm too scared 277 00:16:57.886 --> 00:17:00.671 to use the word 'lesbian'," or "I don't use the word 'lesbian' 278 00:17:00.802 --> 00:17:05.372 because...I don't feel safe doing it," makes me think that, 279 00:17:05.502 --> 00:17:07.548 God, there's so much more work to be done. 280 00:17:07.678 --> 00:17:09.854 -The reason why "lesbian" gets so much heat, I think 281 00:17:09.985 --> 00:17:11.900 is many things. I think it's because it is seen 282 00:17:12.031 --> 00:17:14.250 as being political, women owning their identity. 283 00:17:14.381 --> 00:17:16.905 Like that one person said, it's the one label that's ours. 284 00:17:16.992 --> 00:17:18.515 -Mm. 285 00:17:18.646 --> 00:17:20.952 -But I do think also it's because of that loud minority 286 00:17:21.040 --> 00:17:24.260 that has that reputation of being exclusionary. 287 00:17:24.391 --> 00:17:28.264 FRANCO: I made the magazine to say however you choose to 288 00:17:28.351 --> 00:17:31.572 present yourself, you're still a part of this community. 289 00:17:31.702 --> 00:17:35.141 But a magazine has a limited distribution. 290 00:17:35.228 --> 00:17:37.273 Like there's other ways for lesbians to connect 291 00:17:37.404 --> 00:17:40.015 besides a print magazine. 292 00:17:40.146 --> 00:17:42.191 We can never be too visible, right? 293 00:17:42.278 --> 00:17:43.888 And that's because they've wanted us to be invisible 294 00:17:44.019 --> 00:17:47.457 for so long that any type of visibility is radical. 295 00:17:47.588 --> 00:17:49.372 It's political. 296 00:17:49.503 --> 00:17:51.374 [somber music] 297 00:17:51.505 --> 00:17:54.160 [tv static] 298 00:17:54.290 --> 00:17:58.120 Hilton head, South Carolina. Step this way, please. 299 00:18:02.255 --> 00:18:03.778 -You know what...? 300 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.435 -We drove to beach week. We rented a house. 301 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.354 Blaine came storming into the living room. 302 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.314 He was screaming... 303 00:18:18.445 --> 00:18:20.099 "My wife is a dyke." 304 00:18:21.012 --> 00:18:23.450 Like it stung his tongue to even say it. 305 00:18:24.451 --> 00:18:27.367 [gulls calling, somber music continues] 306 00:18:28.324 --> 00:18:31.327 FRANCO: When my husband outed me to my family, 307 00:18:31.458 --> 00:18:35.679 I felt like it was my story to tell. 308 00:18:35.810 --> 00:18:40.684 That was my decision to tell my family when I was ready. 309 00:18:42.643 --> 00:18:44.601 Ugh. 310 00:18:44.732 --> 00:18:48.475 He had just kind of blown up my world, 311 00:18:48.605 --> 00:18:52.261 which meant that I never had to do it. 312 00:18:52.392 --> 00:18:56.091 But it was kind of something that was taken away from me. 313 00:18:59.181 --> 00:19:01.662 ROBIN: I don't think Frank lied intentionally. 314 00:19:01.792 --> 00:19:04.969 I think she needed to come to terms with it herself. 315 00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:07.755 But not telling my parents when she did figure it out, 316 00:19:07.885 --> 00:19:09.060 that was hard. 317 00:19:09.931 --> 00:19:13.630 If you felt this way, you should not have gotten married. 318 00:19:15.545 --> 00:19:16.851 [echoing voices from the recording] 319 00:19:19.723 --> 00:19:23.205 [family singing "Dayenu," Passover song] 320 00:19:28.210 --> 00:19:29.603 -I think it was like a shocking thing, 321 00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:32.214 like this is something that they did wrong. 322 00:19:33.084 --> 00:19:35.609 You know, nobody wanted to have the gay kid. 323 00:19:36.784 --> 00:19:38.220 FRANCO: I grabbed my car keys, and I walked out. 324 00:19:38.351 --> 00:19:39.961 And that was it. That was the end. 325 00:19:40.091 --> 00:19:42.790 I just took what was on my back and left. 326 00:19:48.361 --> 00:19:49.666 So, I didn't have anywhere to go. 327 00:19:52.626 --> 00:19:53.975 And I lived in my car. 328 00:19:56.020 --> 00:19:59.154 And it was humiliating for me, and I didn't want 329 00:19:59.285 --> 00:20:01.722 anyone to know. It was bad. 330 00:20:04.464 --> 00:20:05.900 After about a month, I called the house. 331 00:20:06.030 --> 00:20:08.076 And my mom picked up, and I said, 332 00:20:08.207 --> 00:20:12.428 "I know that this isn't what you want for me. 333 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:16.737 Can you please lend me $500 so I can get a place to live?" 334 00:20:18.739 --> 00:20:22.525 NANNY: I said, "You made your bed. I'm sorry. 335 00:20:22.656 --> 00:20:25.920 I've spent all the money on you I can do. 336 00:20:26.050 --> 00:20:29.489 Do what you have to do to make your own way, 337 00:20:29.619 --> 00:20:32.143 but I cannot support you." 338 00:20:33.667 --> 00:20:35.799 I felt like I was completely alone. 339 00:20:37.366 --> 00:20:40.978 [pensive music] 340 00:20:42.241 --> 00:20:44.199 The victim of what many people say was a hate crime 341 00:20:44.330 --> 00:20:46.375 in Wyoming this morning has died. 342 00:20:46.506 --> 00:20:49.378 REPORTER: Shepard, a gay man, was allegedly beaten, 343 00:20:49.509 --> 00:20:51.075 left to die. 344 00:20:51.206 --> 00:20:55.210 -It was very hard to be out and open in the late '80s. 345 00:20:55.341 --> 00:20:56.646 There was a history of gay bashing. 346 00:20:58.648 --> 00:21:00.868 -It was nothing to walk down the street 347 00:21:00.998 --> 00:21:03.436 and have somebody smack you or hit you. 348 00:21:03.827 --> 00:21:06.352 Once, I had a guy spit in my face. 349 00:21:06.482 --> 00:21:08.745 -We are ostracized by society. 350 00:21:08.876 --> 00:21:10.660 They call you "dyke." They spit on you. 351 00:21:11.879 --> 00:21:13.489 They think that you're, they think that you're fat, 352 00:21:13.620 --> 00:21:14.664 and they think that you're ugly. 353 00:21:14.795 --> 00:21:16.275 And that's because that's the image 354 00:21:16.405 --> 00:21:18.320 that's been projected about us. 355 00:21:19.582 --> 00:21:21.758 KATE: These two women hiking The Appalachian Trail, 356 00:21:21.889 --> 00:21:25.022 a man identified them as a lesbian couple. 357 00:21:25.153 --> 00:21:27.677 He ended up murdering one of the women 358 00:21:27.808 --> 00:21:29.592 while they slept in their tent. 359 00:21:32.334 --> 00:21:35.294 It's a stone's throw, in terms of history, 360 00:21:35.424 --> 00:21:36.947 away from where we sit right now. 361 00:21:40.603 --> 00:21:43.389 [birdsong, dogs in the distance] 362 00:21:48.132 --> 00:21:52.049 FRANCO: I still really want "Curve" in whatever form 363 00:21:52.180 --> 00:21:55.662 to continue, you know, if it's still needed. 364 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.709 I think what I need to do is find some young activists, 365 00:21:59.840 --> 00:22:03.234 find young people, people who are like what I was like 366 00:22:03.322 --> 00:22:05.280 at 25 and 30. 367 00:22:05.411 --> 00:22:07.630 Who are they? What are their goals? 368 00:22:07.761 --> 00:22:09.806 What are they bringing to the community? 369 00:22:09.937 --> 00:22:12.766 What do they need? What does the community need? 370 00:22:12.896 --> 00:22:16.683 And then maybe, if we talk to some of them, we can get an idea 371 00:22:16.813 --> 00:22:19.120 of what the mission of the magazine, 372 00:22:19.250 --> 00:22:20.861 or the mission of this project, should be. 373 00:22:25.822 --> 00:22:28.738 This is a poem called "Dear Straight People" 374 00:22:28.869 --> 00:22:30.523 by Denice Frohman. 375 00:22:30.653 --> 00:22:32.873 Apparently, it won the World Poetry Slam. 376 00:22:33.917 --> 00:22:37.312 Dear Straight People, [audience chuckles] 377 00:22:37.443 --> 00:22:39.836 Who do you think you are? 378 00:22:39.967 --> 00:22:41.664 Do you have to make it so obvious that 379 00:22:41.751 --> 00:22:44.145 I make you uncomfortable? Why do I make you uncomfortable? 380 00:22:44.275 --> 00:22:45.320 Do you know that makes me uncomfortable? 381 00:22:45.451 --> 00:22:47.931 Now we both uncomfortable. [laughter] 382 00:22:48.062 --> 00:22:51.500 Dear Straight People, Sexuality and gender? 383 00:22:51.587 --> 00:22:53.763 Two different things [cheers, finger snaps] 384 00:22:53.850 --> 00:22:56.113 combined in many different ways. 385 00:22:56.244 --> 00:22:58.942 If you mismatch your socks, you understand. 386 00:22:59.073 --> 00:23:02.250 Dear Straight People, Kissing my girlfriend in public without 387 00:23:02.381 --> 00:23:06.210 looking to see who's around is a luxury I do not fully have yet. 388 00:23:06.341 --> 00:23:09.300 But tonight, I am drunk in my freedom, grab her hand on 389 00:23:09.431 --> 00:23:12.042 the busiest street corner in Philadelphia, zip my fingers 390 00:23:12.173 --> 00:23:14.480 into hers and press our lips firmly, until we melt 391 00:23:14.610 --> 00:23:17.483 their stares into a standing ovation, imagine 392 00:23:17.613 --> 00:23:21.704 that we are in a sea of smiling faces, even when we're not 393 00:23:21.835 --> 00:23:24.707 and when we're not, we start shoveling, digging deep into 394 00:23:24.838 --> 00:23:26.927 each other's eyes we say, "Hey Baby, can't nothing 395 00:23:27.057 --> 00:23:30.409 stop this tonight" 'cause tonight, this world is broken 396 00:23:30.539 --> 00:23:33.194 and we're the only thing that's gonna keep it together. 397 00:23:33.324 --> 00:23:35.936 [cheers, applause] JEN: Damn. 398 00:23:36.066 --> 00:23:37.285 FRANCO: Yeah, pretty powerful huh? 399 00:23:42.986 --> 00:23:45.685 -Just the significance of the magazine for so many years 400 00:23:45.772 --> 00:23:48.775 has meant a lot to a lot of queer folks, 401 00:23:48.905 --> 00:23:50.603 a lot of LGBT folks. 402 00:23:50.733 --> 00:23:52.300 It meant a lot to me. 403 00:23:52.431 --> 00:23:54.824 It was the first magazine that I saw as a young kid walking 404 00:23:54.955 --> 00:23:56.739 around New York City, and I was like, "What's that?" 405 00:23:56.826 --> 00:23:58.132 And seeing women on the cover. 406 00:23:58.262 --> 00:24:02.484 And I'm like, became a lot more curious about 407 00:24:02.615 --> 00:24:03.833 sorta just the community. 408 00:24:03.964 --> 00:24:05.922 It was a way for us to connect to each other. 409 00:24:06.009 --> 00:24:07.576 And so, it's important for young people to know that 410 00:24:07.707 --> 00:24:10.100 this magazine's a part of their lineage, too. 411 00:24:10.231 --> 00:24:14.017 FRANCO: You know, the first time that I saw you, I just remember 412 00:24:14.148 --> 00:24:17.368 feeling that total feel of power. 413 00:24:17.499 --> 00:24:22.373 Like, "Wow! This person is speaking to me." 414 00:24:22.504 --> 00:24:25.376 And then I imagined what would it be like if I was 20, 415 00:24:25.507 --> 00:24:28.075 and I was hearing you go get it. 416 00:24:28.205 --> 00:24:33.210 I was just so blown away that I was like, "This is where 417 00:24:33.341 --> 00:24:35.561 I hope our community's going." 418 00:24:35.691 --> 00:24:38.259 -Young people were sort of messaging me from all over 419 00:24:38.389 --> 00:24:43.307 the world saying, "I found this poem, and I came out to my mom." 420 00:24:43.438 --> 00:24:46.310 Or you know, "I came out to myself." 421 00:24:48.617 --> 00:24:50.924 One of the reasons I'm drawn to work with young people 422 00:24:51.054 --> 00:24:54.536 is because I believe in their wisdom. 423 00:24:54.667 --> 00:24:58.888 Poetry is a way to fall in love with the power of your voice. 424 00:25:00.281 --> 00:25:03.327 -Why do my parents despise so much? 425 00:25:03.458 --> 00:25:06.896 Why couldn't I be the "daughter" they wanted. 426 00:25:07.767 --> 00:25:09.420 Why can't you be like your cousin? 427 00:25:09.551 --> 00:25:12.511 Why can't you be like most "normal" girls? 428 00:25:12.641 --> 00:25:14.991 I'm sorry I like girls. 429 00:25:15.122 --> 00:25:17.864 They saw it as a sickness that was able to be cured. 430 00:25:17.951 --> 00:25:19.213 The guilt is unbearable. 431 00:25:32.618 --> 00:25:34.141 [sniffs back tears] 432 00:25:38.885 --> 00:25:40.277 [snapping in support] 433 00:25:41.278 --> 00:25:44.630 DENICE: There are students on this campus who may not even 434 00:25:44.760 --> 00:25:48.547 know that they're queer or questioning yet, but maybe 5, 435 00:25:48.634 --> 00:25:51.854 10 years from now will look back and see how 436 00:25:51.985 --> 00:25:53.769 courageous and visible you're living your truth 437 00:25:53.856 --> 00:25:56.119 and will be inspired to do the same. 438 00:25:56.250 --> 00:25:58.731 What I'm saying is that your impact extends beyond this room. 439 00:26:01.298 --> 00:26:03.474 -What does queer love look like to you? 440 00:26:03.605 --> 00:26:07.870 DENICE: Unapologetic. Radical. Liberated. 441 00:26:08.001 --> 00:26:09.959 [snapping] 442 00:26:10.090 --> 00:26:13.659 It looks like a harbor. It looks like a heaven. 443 00:26:13.789 --> 00:26:15.574 I love the word "queer" because I feel like it encompasses 444 00:26:15.704 --> 00:26:18.359 both my sexuality and my gender presentation, right? 445 00:26:19.447 --> 00:26:22.581 My queerness is what my womanhood looks like on me 446 00:26:22.711 --> 00:26:26.323 as much as it is who I'm with. 447 00:26:26.454 --> 00:26:29.892 And it's really the ultimate risk but also the ultimate and 448 00:26:30.023 --> 00:26:33.374 greatest joy and the most radical love I've ever known. 449 00:26:33.504 --> 00:26:35.158 That's what queer love is to me. 450 00:26:35.289 --> 00:26:36.725 [snapping fills the room] 451 00:26:41.208 --> 00:26:44.428 FRANCO: When I left my marriage, it was scary. 452 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:46.692 But at least I was free. 453 00:26:48.781 --> 00:26:51.044 Where I really wanted to work was A Different Light Bookstore. 454 00:26:51.174 --> 00:26:56.049 This was the gay bookstore in the gayest street in America. 455 00:26:56.179 --> 00:26:58.573 I went in, and I had a conversation with 456 00:26:58.660 --> 00:27:01.794 the one female employee there named Rachel Pepper. 457 00:27:01.924 --> 00:27:03.839 RACHEL: I just liked Franco right away. 458 00:27:03.926 --> 00:27:06.146 I felt I need to help this person get hired. 459 00:27:06.276 --> 00:27:08.104 I wanna be this person's friend. 460 00:27:08.235 --> 00:27:11.107 FRANCO: Everyone that worked there was an artist or a writer 461 00:27:11.194 --> 00:27:14.284 and the most creative people that I'd ever met. 462 00:27:14.415 --> 00:27:16.330 One of my friends from school, he asked me, 463 00:27:16.460 --> 00:27:17.940 "So, where you living?" 464 00:27:18.071 --> 00:27:21.335 And when I admitted that I didn't have a place to live, 465 00:27:21.422 --> 00:27:24.599 they said, "Come live with us. We won't charge you any rent." 466 00:27:24.730 --> 00:27:27.080 And they gave me this tiny little bedroom. 467 00:27:27.210 --> 00:27:31.562 But I was so happy to have this place that I could be myself in. 468 00:27:31.650 --> 00:27:33.216 One night, I went out to a club, and I met 469 00:27:33.303 --> 00:27:35.654 my first official girlfriend, Vicki. 470 00:27:36.872 --> 00:27:39.396 VICKI: When I met Franco, I thought she looked a lot 471 00:27:39.483 --> 00:27:40.963 like Demi Moore. 472 00:27:41.094 --> 00:27:45.968 She had makeup and nails and the hair. 473 00:27:46.099 --> 00:27:48.841 And I was just like, wow, you know? Yeah. 474 00:27:48.971 --> 00:27:51.365 So, we started going to Rolo and all these little stores 475 00:27:51.452 --> 00:27:53.106 and shopping together. 476 00:27:53.193 --> 00:27:56.631 And then gradually, I noticed she was like kinda changing. 477 00:27:57.632 --> 00:28:01.375 I just noticed her discovering who she was. 478 00:28:01.505 --> 00:28:04.900 She said to me, "If you wanna stay with me, 479 00:28:04.987 --> 00:28:06.554 you have to wear the dress." 480 00:28:06.685 --> 00:28:08.469 FRANCO: I was like, "Can you please put on a dress for me?" 481 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:11.211 And she's like "No!" 482 00:28:11.298 --> 00:28:14.693 I was like, oh no, I think I like femme girls. 483 00:28:14.823 --> 00:28:17.608 And then I got kind of upset that they weren't treated 484 00:28:17.696 --> 00:28:20.089 like real lesbians in the lesbian community. 485 00:28:20.176 --> 00:28:21.438 You had to look the part. 486 00:28:21.525 --> 00:28:24.528 You needed Doc Martins on your feet, and you needed 487 00:28:24.615 --> 00:28:27.357 short haircut and no makeup. 488 00:28:27.488 --> 00:28:30.230 You had to be able to identify each other by that. 489 00:28:30.360 --> 00:28:32.145 I think that's just wrong. 490 00:28:32.275 --> 00:28:35.191 -So, what is an average lesbian? -There is no average lesbian. 491 00:28:35.322 --> 00:28:36.845 We've always been in every segment. 492 00:28:36.976 --> 00:28:40.283 We're doctors, lawyers, engineers, 493 00:28:40.414 --> 00:28:42.372 sanitation engineers too. 494 00:28:42.503 --> 00:28:44.940 If you look around, how many of you could decipher 495 00:28:45.027 --> 00:28:46.681 who was lesbian and who was not? 496 00:28:46.812 --> 00:28:49.640 If you looked at this panel walking out on the street, 497 00:28:49.771 --> 00:28:50.816 what would you think? Average lesbian? 498 00:28:50.946 --> 00:28:52.252 -Of course. Of course. [laughter] 499 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:54.515 FRANCO: Average lesbian? Average lesbian? 500 00:28:54.645 --> 00:28:56.343 Our whole life does not revolve around sex 501 00:28:56.473 --> 00:28:58.345 and who we sleep with. [applause] 502 00:29:02.175 --> 00:29:05.178 RACHEL: We wanted to see representation of our diversity 503 00:29:05.308 --> 00:29:06.919 in the pages of a magazine. 504 00:29:07.006 --> 00:29:08.921 We wanted fashion. We wanted lifestyle. 505 00:29:09.051 --> 00:29:12.489 We wanted to talk about books and music that were not 506 00:29:12.620 --> 00:29:15.536 on the mainstream lesbian grid at the moment. 507 00:29:15.666 --> 00:29:17.494 -There were gay magazines. 508 00:29:17.581 --> 00:29:19.322 There just weren't the right ones. 509 00:29:19.888 --> 00:29:20.976 FRANCO: Okay, come on. Let's take some selfies. 510 00:29:21.107 --> 00:29:22.456 ANDREA: Okay, we're taking some selfies. 511 00:29:22.586 --> 00:29:23.718 -Am I a bar stool? 512 00:29:23.849 --> 00:29:25.372 Put your arm around me or something. 513 00:29:25.502 --> 00:29:26.329 -Well, I mean, it's a little tall. 514 00:29:26.460 --> 00:29:27.809 -Here, no, here. -Okay, there. 515 00:29:27.940 --> 00:29:29.942 Yeah, I guess I'll lean then. Bar stool. You get it? 516 00:29:30.072 --> 00:29:32.466 -[laughs] I turn into everyone's coat rack. 517 00:29:32.596 --> 00:29:33.597 What am I, a coat rack? 518 00:29:33.728 --> 00:29:34.990 -I don't think you're a coat rack! 519 00:29:35.077 --> 00:29:37.601 -So, right down here is the bookstore 520 00:29:37.732 --> 00:29:39.255 that I used to work at. 521 00:29:39.386 --> 00:29:41.736 It used to be called A Different Light. 522 00:29:41.867 --> 00:29:44.260 When I used to work here, mostly at the time it was 523 00:29:44.391 --> 00:29:46.001 gay men's porn. 524 00:29:47.263 --> 00:29:49.352 "The Advocate" didn't say "lesbian" on the front cover. 525 00:29:49.483 --> 00:29:53.356 It only said, "gay." "Out" showed up shortly after. 526 00:29:53.487 --> 00:29:56.011 "On Our Backs" was there: full nudity, 527 00:29:56.142 --> 00:29:58.622 in-your-face lesbian erotica. 528 00:29:59.710 --> 00:30:03.192 KATIE: There was nothing for the general lesbian population. 529 00:30:03.845 --> 00:30:07.109 FRANCO: One day, it hit me: if you want something 530 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:10.156 you need to take action and do something. 531 00:30:10.286 --> 00:30:12.419 I was the one that was supposed to start this magazine. 532 00:30:14.421 --> 00:30:15.683 -So, she got the idea. 533 00:30:15.770 --> 00:30:17.816 And then she's just like, ooh, my God. 534 00:30:17.946 --> 00:30:18.991 I need money. 535 00:30:19.905 --> 00:30:22.559 FRANCO: So, I dressed up in my little suit, and I went to the 536 00:30:22.646 --> 00:30:26.825 bank with my business plan and my little pleather briefcase. 537 00:30:26.955 --> 00:30:28.739 I don't think they wanted anything to do with me. 538 00:30:29.131 --> 00:30:31.090 We were shot down so hard. 539 00:30:31.220 --> 00:30:33.092 "What are you thinking? You know you're gonna fail." 540 00:30:33.222 --> 00:30:35.834 First of all, the economy's tanking. 541 00:30:35.964 --> 00:30:38.271 Second of all, the magazine industry's in the toilet. 542 00:30:38.358 --> 00:30:40.969 Magazines are flailing left and right, and you wanna put 543 00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:42.753 the word "lesbian" on the front cover. 544 00:30:42.884 --> 00:30:44.146 Good luck to ya. 545 00:30:44.407 --> 00:30:46.409 JEN: I wasn't out in the '90s. 546 00:30:46.540 --> 00:30:49.369 Why was it a big deal to put the word "lesbian" on the cover? 547 00:30:49.499 --> 00:30:51.327 -It was essentially coming out every time you wanted 548 00:30:51.414 --> 00:30:54.548 to look at the magazine. It was a big deal back then. 549 00:30:54.678 --> 00:30:57.072 You're reading this, you're guilty by association. 550 00:30:57.638 --> 00:30:58.813 Well, that was everybody's perception 551 00:30:58.944 --> 00:30:59.901 that nobody would buy it. 552 00:31:00.771 --> 00:31:03.644 So, I just applied for a bunch of credit cards on the same day. 553 00:31:04.210 --> 00:31:05.776 I just cashed them all in. 554 00:31:06.212 --> 00:31:08.127 ANNOUNCER: Here they come.... 555 00:31:08.257 --> 00:31:11.565 FRANCO: I had been homeless, I'd lived in my car, I'd been broke. 556 00:31:11.695 --> 00:31:14.002 So what if I didn't have any credit after this? 557 00:31:14.133 --> 00:31:17.353 So what if I declared bankruptcy? 558 00:31:17.484 --> 00:31:19.921 Everyone said along the way that I couldn't do it. 559 00:31:20.052 --> 00:31:23.316 Well, the more you told me no, the more I wanted it to happen. 560 00:31:23.446 --> 00:31:26.580 I picked the first race, clear favorite. 561 00:31:26.710 --> 00:31:30.801 I went down to the paddock, and I noticed when the jockey is 562 00:31:30.932 --> 00:31:34.022 getting on the horse, he keeps looking back, looking back. 563 00:31:34.153 --> 00:31:35.763 There's something wrong with this horse. 564 00:31:35.894 --> 00:31:38.287 So, it was like oh, that horse is out. All right. 565 00:31:38.418 --> 00:31:42.030 I'm gonna bet an exacta with two longshots, 566 00:31:42.161 --> 00:31:43.640 and my horses came in first and second. 567 00:31:43.771 --> 00:31:45.729 [hooves thundering on the track] 568 00:31:45.816 --> 00:31:50.343 I took all the money, and I did the same thing: just taking 569 00:31:50.473 --> 00:31:52.693 that money and parlaying it into the next race. 570 00:31:52.823 --> 00:31:55.043 I knew I had to risk everything. 571 00:31:55.174 --> 00:31:56.958 And I just remember thinking okay, 572 00:31:57.089 --> 00:32:00.744 if this is supposed to happen, it will. 573 00:32:00.875 --> 00:32:03.704 And I'll tell ya, it was like I was standing at the finish line 574 00:32:03.834 --> 00:32:07.577 in every race, as if somebody had just told me 575 00:32:07.708 --> 00:32:10.624 these are gonna be the winners of these races. 576 00:32:10.754 --> 00:32:14.106 At the end of the day, I had enough money 577 00:32:14.236 --> 00:32:17.587 to start the magazine and print three editions worth. 578 00:32:21.026 --> 00:32:23.376 So, I was at Different Light at the time, and I hand wrote 579 00:32:23.506 --> 00:32:25.769 a sign that just said "Looking for lesbian writers 580 00:32:25.900 --> 00:32:29.338 and photographers for new lesbian magazine." 581 00:32:29.469 --> 00:32:33.038 And I put the sign up, and I got 300 calls the first month. 582 00:32:33.168 --> 00:32:37.303 So, at that point, I knew that there was a need and a want. 583 00:32:37.390 --> 00:32:39.261 RACHEL: There was a lot of interest in getting this 584 00:32:39.392 --> 00:32:42.830 new lesbian publication off the ground. 585 00:32:42.961 --> 00:32:45.659 KATIE: I called, and I said, "I'm interested in the magazine 586 00:32:45.789 --> 00:32:47.139 that you were talking about." 587 00:32:47.269 --> 00:32:49.750 And she goes, "Well, do you want to be an editor." 588 00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:52.840 And I thought well, that was an easy interview! 589 00:32:53.406 --> 00:32:56.452 DEB: Franco got this huge tray with just so much sushi. 590 00:32:56.583 --> 00:32:58.150 And she said, "If you can eat more sushi than me, 591 00:32:58.237 --> 00:33:00.804 you'll get the job." That was.... [laughs] 592 00:33:00.935 --> 00:33:02.589 And I remember thinking oh, I can do that. 593 00:33:02.719 --> 00:33:04.112 FRANCO: Do you know what the difference is between 594 00:33:04.243 --> 00:33:06.375 parsley and pussy? DEB: What, Franco? 595 00:33:06.506 --> 00:33:07.594 FRANCO: I don't know. 596 00:33:07.681 --> 00:33:08.899 I don't eat parsley. [clicks tongue] 597 00:33:08.987 --> 00:33:10.553 Back to you, Deb. 598 00:33:11.728 --> 00:33:13.861 KATIE: I think she was 23. 599 00:33:13.992 --> 00:33:16.951 So, to see somebody that was grasping these opportunities 600 00:33:17.082 --> 00:33:19.258 and just going for it was really inspiring. 601 00:33:21.260 --> 00:33:23.436 FRANCO: Oh, the name of the magazine. 602 00:33:23.566 --> 00:33:25.786 [clears throat] I've been told never to talk about that. 603 00:33:25.916 --> 00:33:28.876 The name Deneuve was Franco's first cat. 604 00:33:29.007 --> 00:33:31.835 Franco had a girlfriend whose cat was named Deneuve. 605 00:33:31.966 --> 00:33:35.883 Long-haired American fluffy cat, tabby. Deneuve. 606 00:33:36.014 --> 00:33:37.754 What!? [laughs] 607 00:33:37.841 --> 00:33:41.410 She once told me that it sounded like it meant, "the new thing." 608 00:33:41.541 --> 00:33:45.719 I think we all felt it had a little bit of a je ne sais quoi. 609 00:33:45.849 --> 00:33:48.330 I knew immediately that it was 610 00:33:48.417 --> 00:33:51.638 homage to Catherine Deneuve. 611 00:33:51.768 --> 00:33:53.379 "The Hunger" was one of my favorite movies. 612 00:33:53.509 --> 00:33:58.949 Franco named the magazine after her camp counselor. 613 00:33:59.646 --> 00:34:01.822 KATIE: She told me, "There was a girl that I met at summer camp 614 00:34:01.952 --> 00:34:03.737 that I fell madly in love with." 615 00:34:03.867 --> 00:34:07.567 Franco's first girlfriend, her name was Deneuve. 616 00:34:07.654 --> 00:34:09.134 How sweet is that? 617 00:34:09.873 --> 00:34:12.354 For the record, my first girlfriend was not a cat. 618 00:34:13.660 --> 00:34:15.227 [machines whirring] 619 00:34:18.143 --> 00:34:20.275 [chill pop music] 620 00:34:20.362 --> 00:34:22.451 From the get-go, I knew exactly 621 00:34:22.582 --> 00:34:24.975 what I wanted the magazine to be like. 622 00:34:25.106 --> 00:34:27.282 I wanted it to be color and glossy. 623 00:34:27.413 --> 00:34:32.505 I wanted it to be a resource for women in the community, 624 00:34:32.635 --> 00:34:35.160 and I wanted it to be a place where we could 625 00:34:35.290 --> 00:34:37.858 feel proud to represent all of us. 626 00:34:37.988 --> 00:34:40.121 This is our life. This is our style. 627 00:34:40.208 --> 00:34:42.863 Yes, this is our news and our politics, 628 00:34:42.993 --> 00:34:45.039 but this is where we are, 629 00:34:45.170 --> 00:34:47.607 and this is how we're gonna push ourselves forward. 630 00:34:47.737 --> 00:34:50.262 DEB: What I was really interested in was making sure 631 00:34:50.392 --> 00:34:52.699 everybody looked gorgeous. 632 00:34:52.829 --> 00:34:54.440 'Cause I think at that time, a lot of people didn't really 633 00:34:54.570 --> 00:34:55.919 feel good about themselves. 634 00:34:56.050 --> 00:34:59.097 Put down by society. Really rough time with families. 635 00:34:59.184 --> 00:35:01.795 It was really a place where we looked positive, 636 00:35:01.925 --> 00:35:03.275 we looked great, we looked sexy. 637 00:35:07.366 --> 00:35:09.890 ♪ Still, there's many who turned out their porch lights 638 00:35:10.020 --> 00:35:12.545 ♪ Just so I would think they were not home 639 00:35:12.675 --> 00:35:14.982 ♪ And hid in the dark of the windows 640 00:35:15.156 --> 00:35:16.810 ♪ Till I passed.... ♪ 641 00:35:16.897 --> 00:35:21.206 It says on the very first issue, "lesbian," a lesbian magazine. 642 00:35:21.293 --> 00:35:24.252 You know, just being in this magazine 643 00:35:24.383 --> 00:35:25.949 was like taking a big chance. 644 00:35:26.080 --> 00:35:29.649 I mean, there's nothing more out loud and proud than 645 00:35:29.779 --> 00:35:32.260 being in a magazine with the L word on the cover. 646 00:35:32.347 --> 00:35:35.481 I can tell you there was two paid ads; 647 00:35:35.611 --> 00:35:38.484 one from A Different Light Bookstore, which was tiny, 648 00:35:38.614 --> 00:35:41.617 and then one from my dad's computer business, 649 00:35:41.748 --> 00:35:44.142 which was his latest entrepreneurial venture. 650 00:35:45.447 --> 00:35:48.189 [pensive music] 651 00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:51.497 My relationship with my mom at the point of just starting 652 00:35:51.627 --> 00:35:54.369 the magazine was on the mend. 653 00:35:55.457 --> 00:35:57.807 ROBIN: My mother knew she didn't react well. 654 00:35:57.938 --> 00:36:00.593 FRANCO: One time for Thanksgiving, she called up 655 00:36:00.723 --> 00:36:03.857 and said, "I'd really like you to come home for Thanksgiving." 656 00:36:03.987 --> 00:36:05.467 And without missing a beat, I just said, 657 00:36:05.598 --> 00:36:07.426 "Okay, we will be there. 658 00:36:07.556 --> 00:36:10.516 I will be coming with my girlfriend," which was Vicki. 659 00:36:10.646 --> 00:36:13.127 I didn't give her a chance to say anything else. 660 00:36:15.085 --> 00:36:17.523 ROBIN: The first time I heard my mother use the word, 661 00:36:17.653 --> 00:36:21.744 "my daughter's a lesbian," was in relation to the magazine. 662 00:36:22.832 --> 00:36:25.444 Somebody was asking what everybody was up to. 663 00:36:25.574 --> 00:36:29.274 And my mother said, "Oh, and Frank started this magazine." 664 00:36:29.404 --> 00:36:31.014 "Really? What kind of magazine?" 665 00:36:31.145 --> 00:36:34.148 "Well, it's a lesbian magazine." And that was just it. 666 00:36:35.193 --> 00:36:39.501 NANNY: Frances said, "Mom, I know what I want, 667 00:36:39.632 --> 00:36:41.373 and I'm gonna do it." 668 00:36:41.503 --> 00:36:45.899 And I said, "Hurray. Let's start over." 669 00:36:48.728 --> 00:36:50.947 [birds singing] 670 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:55.343 FRANCO: I don't know if you remember Kim Katrin Milan. 671 00:36:55.474 --> 00:36:57.127 Her TED Talk went viral. 672 00:36:57.258 --> 00:36:59.391 Yeah, she has an amazing family. 673 00:36:59.478 --> 00:37:00.783 So, take a look at this. 674 00:37:01.567 --> 00:37:03.743 TIQ: I am a transgender man, which means 675 00:37:03.873 --> 00:37:05.875 the "F" on my birth certificate should've stood for 676 00:37:06.006 --> 00:37:08.487 false instead of female. [laughter] 677 00:37:09.401 --> 00:37:11.707 KIM: I am a cisgender queer woman. 678 00:37:11.838 --> 00:37:15.015 Cisgender means the gender I was assigned at birth is still 679 00:37:15.145 --> 00:37:17.278 and has always been female. 680 00:37:17.409 --> 00:37:20.107 I've identified in a few different ways - as a bisexual, 681 00:37:20.238 --> 00:37:23.371 as a lesbian - but for me, queerness encompasses 682 00:37:23.502 --> 00:37:27.332 all of the layers of who I am and how I've loved. 683 00:37:27.462 --> 00:37:29.812 I'm layers and not fractions. 684 00:37:29.943 --> 00:37:33.686 FRANCO: What are they saying that's bringing so many viewers? 685 00:37:33.816 --> 00:37:37.342 What is the message of today? What are people hungry for? 686 00:37:37.472 --> 00:37:42.434 When I created the magazine, it was for women who love women. 687 00:37:42.564 --> 00:37:44.000 So, what does that mean today? 688 00:37:44.131 --> 00:37:46.525 JEN: Who identifies as a woman might have shifted. 689 00:37:46.612 --> 00:37:47.961 FRANCO: Yeah. Mmhmm. 690 00:37:48.091 --> 00:37:49.136 -But it's the same thing. 691 00:37:49.267 --> 00:37:50.442 -And who identifies as a man now. 692 00:37:50.572 --> 00:37:51.747 -Right. 693 00:37:51.878 --> 00:37:55.098 -So, I think it's looking at the community 694 00:37:55.229 --> 00:37:56.535 a really different way. 695 00:37:58.711 --> 00:38:01.844 [chill music] 696 00:38:01.975 --> 00:38:06.675 KIM: I'd been speaking since 2009, trying to involve people 697 00:38:06.806 --> 00:38:10.113 in having a broader dialogue about what it means 698 00:38:10.244 --> 00:38:12.725 to support LGBT people. 699 00:38:12.855 --> 00:38:14.770 -You know, having a speaker like you come in 700 00:38:14.901 --> 00:38:17.295 could just change everything. -Yeah. 701 00:38:17.425 --> 00:38:20.820 -They picture queer people as one specific way. 702 00:38:20.950 --> 00:38:23.779 What I wanted to do with the magazine too is kinda 703 00:38:23.910 --> 00:38:26.956 break that mold and say that people don't have to 704 00:38:27.087 --> 00:38:30.264 be a certain way to be accepted within the community. 705 00:38:30.395 --> 00:38:31.918 KIM: I think that that conversation is still something 706 00:38:32.048 --> 00:38:33.746 that's so important to keep having. 707 00:38:33.876 --> 00:38:36.488 I think everything ends up having to evolve. 708 00:38:36.618 --> 00:38:40.448 -People will make fun of the extension of LGBTQI2s, 709 00:38:40.579 --> 00:38:44.017 but the way that exists is actually a really accurate 710 00:38:44.147 --> 00:38:45.540 reflection of the work we're trying to do. 711 00:38:45.671 --> 00:38:47.150 -Totally, totally. And what we're seeing now 712 00:38:47.281 --> 00:38:48.935 with this desire for people 713 00:38:49.065 --> 00:38:51.067 to name themselves, is really that, 714 00:38:51.198 --> 00:38:54.201 is a reclaiming of this power that we've never had access to. 715 00:38:54.332 --> 00:38:57.335 -It's self-empowering to take those words back. 716 00:38:57.465 --> 00:39:00.555 -And I think in the naming is you find your tribe. 717 00:39:00.642 --> 00:39:01.817 You find your community. 718 00:39:02.601 --> 00:39:04.429 [mellow music] 719 00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:09.129 FRANCO: I knew the owner of the largest lesbian romance novel 720 00:39:09.259 --> 00:39:11.914 publishing company, Naiad Press. 721 00:39:12.045 --> 00:39:15.004 Barbara Grier, the publisher, said to me, "Oh my God. 722 00:39:15.135 --> 00:39:17.093 You're the cutest little baby dyke I've ever seen!" 723 00:39:17.224 --> 00:39:18.965 -[laughs] -"Print this flyer. 724 00:39:19.095 --> 00:39:22.621 It will cost you $600, and I will send it out 725 00:39:22.751 --> 00:39:25.841 to all my people on my entire mailing list. 726 00:39:25.928 --> 00:39:29.410 And I'll even put a quote from me in there saying that 727 00:39:29.541 --> 00:39:32.674 this is the greatest thing to happen to lesbian culture. 728 00:39:32.805 --> 00:39:34.937 I support it. You need to buy a subscription." 729 00:39:35.068 --> 00:39:38.724 So, I was like, $600? We didn't have 600 cents. 730 00:39:40.682 --> 00:39:42.162 VICKI: We were putting our heads together 731 00:39:42.292 --> 00:39:43.859 'cause this was so important to us. 732 00:39:43.990 --> 00:39:47.559 So, there used to be motorcycle parking down there 733 00:39:47.689 --> 00:39:49.952 at the corner of 18th and Castro Street, 734 00:39:50.083 --> 00:39:51.737 and there'd be tons of people 735 00:39:51.867 --> 00:39:54.087 that'd come and would park their motorcycles there. 736 00:39:54.217 --> 00:39:57.569 We can go down there and start detailing motorcycles. 737 00:39:57.699 --> 00:39:59.527 VICKI: [laughing] I do not want to wash motorcycles. 738 00:39:59.614 --> 00:40:01.442 And she was like "C'mon!" 739 00:40:01.529 --> 00:40:03.618 I would be like, "Hey, nice bike. 740 00:40:03.749 --> 00:40:07.448 But really, your bike is pretty dirty. 741 00:40:07.579 --> 00:40:09.668 Look at mine! It's immaculate. 742 00:40:09.798 --> 00:40:12.671 You go into that bar, give me 20 bucks. 743 00:40:12.801 --> 00:40:15.021 By the time you get out, your bike will look as good as mine." 744 00:40:15.151 --> 00:40:17.153 We had like little toothbrushes. 745 00:40:17.284 --> 00:40:19.939 By the end of the day, we were so exhausted. 746 00:40:20.069 --> 00:40:21.767 FRANCO: I was surprised she didn't break up with me 747 00:40:21.897 --> 00:40:23.333 just right then and there. 748 00:40:23.421 --> 00:40:27.207 After a weekend, we were high on those fumes from 749 00:40:27.337 --> 00:40:29.165 the de-greaser, but we had gotten the money. 750 00:40:31.211 --> 00:40:33.648 So, Naiad Press sent out the mailer. 751 00:40:33.735 --> 00:40:38.697 And after about two weeks, I opened up the mailbox, 752 00:40:38.827 --> 00:40:41.047 and there were like two subscriptions. 753 00:40:41.177 --> 00:40:44.659 I was like two subscriptions, YES! 754 00:40:44.790 --> 00:40:48.054 The next day there was like 12 subscriptions. 755 00:40:48.184 --> 00:40:51.231 I was like wow, this is awesome. 756 00:40:52.841 --> 00:40:55.322 And I come in the next day. 757 00:40:55.453 --> 00:40:58.368 I open that little box, and I look in. Empty. 758 00:40:59.805 --> 00:41:03.243 And I'm like, I guess that's it 'cause this is the third issue. 759 00:41:03.373 --> 00:41:07.900 So, as I'm walking out the door with my head kind of slung like 760 00:41:08.030 --> 00:41:10.903 let's see, how old will I be after my bankruptcy's cleared 761 00:41:11.033 --> 00:41:13.558 from my record, the guy behind the desk said, "Oh, wait. 762 00:41:13.688 --> 00:41:17.387 Frank, Franco, wait a second!" And I said, "Yeah?" 763 00:41:17.475 --> 00:41:19.651 He goes, "Oh, your mail would not 764 00:41:19.781 --> 00:41:23.437 fit in the P.O. box. There was too much of it." 765 00:41:23.524 --> 00:41:28.529 So, he plunked down this sack of subscriptions. 766 00:41:29.791 --> 00:41:34.230 It was like Santa's gift bag. I couldn't believe it. 767 00:41:34.361 --> 00:41:37.495 For the next few weeks, it continued at that rate. 768 00:41:37.625 --> 00:41:39.714 Like either there was a tub, one of those mail tubs, 769 00:41:39.801 --> 00:41:44.632 or a sack of thousands of subscriptions. 770 00:41:44.763 --> 00:41:48.027 It was like... God was a lesbian. [laughs] 771 00:41:49.419 --> 00:41:52.858 [upbeat music] 772 00:41:54.033 --> 00:41:56.601 VICKI: So many women were interested in the magazine. 773 00:41:56.731 --> 00:41:58.690 And I mean, it was just flooding in. 774 00:41:58.777 --> 00:42:02.955 We were in the apartment, typing in the addresses, 775 00:42:03.085 --> 00:42:07.873 stuffing these magazines into manila envelopes. 776 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:09.875 And I'm like, I'm thinking to myself, 777 00:42:09.962 --> 00:42:11.616 what day and age are we living in? 778 00:42:11.746 --> 00:42:14.793 Why does this have to be in a manila envelope and mailed out? 779 00:42:14.923 --> 00:42:17.056 And it's like well, it's going to the Midwest 780 00:42:17.186 --> 00:42:19.145 to people that probably aren't out. 781 00:42:19.972 --> 00:42:23.105 So, this is where I lived when I first started the magazine. 782 00:42:23.236 --> 00:42:26.892 But when women called here, they thought they were reaching some 783 00:42:27.022 --> 00:42:29.590 big-ass publication, where it was a couple of dykes 784 00:42:29.721 --> 00:42:32.288 sitting up in that room all smooshed together and like - 785 00:42:32.419 --> 00:42:33.376 ANDREA: You were all the departments. 786 00:42:33.463 --> 00:42:34.508 FRANCO: I was all the departments. 787 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:36.249 We did so many photo shoots in the back. 788 00:42:36.336 --> 00:42:37.642 Sometimes they'd call and be like, "Oh, yeah, 789 00:42:37.729 --> 00:42:40.166 I have a question about my subscription." 790 00:42:40.253 --> 00:42:42.777 They were really looking for community. 791 00:42:42.908 --> 00:42:45.824 Calling us up and hearing another voice of somebody 792 00:42:45.911 --> 00:42:49.958 who is actually an out lesbian was so moving for them. 793 00:42:52.352 --> 00:42:54.833 Sometimes they'd end up keeping somebody on the phone 794 00:42:54.963 --> 00:42:56.574 here at the office for an hour or two. 795 00:42:56.704 --> 00:42:57.836 It wasn't uncommon. 796 00:43:04.059 --> 00:43:05.495 Brings back a lot of memories. 797 00:43:07.019 --> 00:43:09.587 [mellow music] 798 00:43:09.717 --> 00:43:12.502 RACHEL: How are you going to publicize this magazine 799 00:43:12.633 --> 00:43:17.203 at a time when women really didn't have access 800 00:43:17.333 --> 00:43:19.379 to a lot of media to get their voices heard? 801 00:43:19.509 --> 00:43:21.860 And there was no Internet to publicize it. 802 00:43:21.947 --> 00:43:24.602 Franco was great about hitting the road 803 00:43:24.732 --> 00:43:26.647 at every opportunity possible. 804 00:43:26.778 --> 00:43:30.912 She would go to every Pride event all around the country 805 00:43:31.043 --> 00:43:34.612 to set up a booth and sell subscriptions. 806 00:43:35.395 --> 00:43:37.310 It's the night before the tour, and I'm just getting ready. 807 00:43:37.397 --> 00:43:39.312 And our first stop is Winnemucca, Nevada, 808 00:43:39.442 --> 00:43:41.836 until we can make it to Salt Lake City the next day. 809 00:43:41.967 --> 00:43:43.925 We're doing Chicago on Friday, 810 00:43:44.056 --> 00:43:46.101 the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival on Sunday. 811 00:43:46.232 --> 00:43:51.846 Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, 812 00:43:51.977 --> 00:43:56.285 St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, and then back home. 813 00:43:56.372 --> 00:43:58.810 I just don't know where we're gonna fit 47 boxes 814 00:43:58.897 --> 00:44:01.116 that we're gonna get in Chicago in the car. 815 00:44:01.247 --> 00:44:02.944 Magazines, magazines. 816 00:44:03.075 --> 00:44:04.337 We're going to Michigan. 817 00:44:04.467 --> 00:44:07.340 We're gonna see us some naked ladies. Buh-bye! 818 00:44:08.428 --> 00:44:10.691 FRANCO: And that was our whole idea of going on these tours, 819 00:44:10.822 --> 00:44:13.041 is like drive 600 miles. 820 00:44:13.172 --> 00:44:14.608 DEB: Have you had okra? 821 00:44:14.739 --> 00:44:16.392 I didn't know what okra was until tonight. 822 00:44:16.523 --> 00:44:19.395 FRANCO: Show up at the bookstore for cocktails and snacks. 823 00:44:19.526 --> 00:44:22.660 They have "Deneuve" magazine beautifully displayed. 824 00:44:22.790 --> 00:44:26.011 FRANCO: Followed by five minutes for dinner and going 825 00:44:26.141 --> 00:44:28.883 to a dance club until 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. 826 00:44:30.406 --> 00:44:33.279 We're on our way to Atlanta. 827 00:44:33.366 --> 00:44:36.238 Every place we go, they ask who the three triplets are, 828 00:44:36.369 --> 00:44:38.632 since we're obviously the only lesbians they've ever seen. 829 00:44:38.763 --> 00:44:40.155 Or so they think. 830 00:44:40.286 --> 00:44:41.983 And we all have exactly the same haircut. 831 00:44:43.898 --> 00:44:47.380 And we'd just cover as much ground as we could. 832 00:44:48.686 --> 00:44:50.949 RACHEL: When we rolled up, people would just be ecstatic 833 00:44:51.036 --> 00:44:55.910 to see us, and particularly to see Franco. 834 00:44:56.041 --> 00:44:57.869 Actually, one beautiful woman standing right in front of me. 835 00:44:57.999 --> 00:44:59.435 [laughs] 836 00:44:59.522 --> 00:45:01.742 Can I turn this off now, Franco, please? 837 00:45:01.829 --> 00:45:03.483 -I love my job. [kiss, laughter] 838 00:45:03.613 --> 00:45:05.180 I love my job. I love my job. 839 00:45:05.572 --> 00:45:08.096 More babes in the community tent. 840 00:45:08.227 --> 00:45:12.100 -The big boss is just working so hard! [chuckles] 841 00:45:12.231 --> 00:45:16.235 Oh yeah, just peeling the babes off her carcass. 842 00:45:16.365 --> 00:45:19.847 The women of the South really have loved the magazine. 843 00:45:19.978 --> 00:45:21.893 -And we just wanna say, "Hey, 'Deneuve'." 844 00:45:22.023 --> 00:45:24.330 -Wanna say hi to all you "Deneuve" fans. 845 00:45:24.460 --> 00:45:25.940 [cheering] 846 00:45:28.160 --> 00:45:29.030 Woo woo! 847 00:45:29.770 --> 00:45:32.642 [bright music] 848 00:45:40.825 --> 00:45:44.611 -I started reading the magazine when I first started coming out. 849 00:45:44.742 --> 00:45:47.440 It kinda helped me remember that I wasn't all alone. 850 00:45:57.232 --> 00:46:00.845 DEB: A woman came up to us, and she was crying. 851 00:46:00.932 --> 00:46:02.672 And I said, "Are you upset?" She goes, "No, I'm really happy. 852 00:46:02.803 --> 00:46:04.109 I live out here. 853 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:06.633 There are no other gay people that I know of, 854 00:46:06.764 --> 00:46:08.200 and I get this magazine. 855 00:46:08.330 --> 00:46:10.158 It comes every month, and it's like my only connection 856 00:46:10.245 --> 00:46:11.943 to the gay community." 857 00:46:13.161 --> 00:46:16.425 And I realized at that moment that this has a little more 858 00:46:16.556 --> 00:46:19.037 importance than I actually realize. 859 00:46:19.167 --> 00:46:25.608 -We probably get an average of 100 letters a week. 860 00:46:25.695 --> 00:46:28.002 KATIE: Let me just share with you this one letter. 861 00:46:28.133 --> 00:46:31.136 The header on it is, "Saved from the Patriarchal South. 862 00:46:31.266 --> 00:46:33.181 May the Goddesses bless you! 863 00:46:33.312 --> 00:46:36.576 Your magazine 'Deneuve,' has saved me from the patriarchy. 864 00:46:36.706 --> 00:46:39.492 I now feel connected to the Lesbian World. 865 00:46:39.622 --> 00:46:42.756 Back here in Kentucky where the KKK still march, 866 00:46:42.887 --> 00:46:44.802 positive publications such as yours 867 00:46:44.932 --> 00:46:46.760 can only bring us more support." 868 00:46:56.422 --> 00:46:58.685 [upbeat music] 869 00:47:03.385 --> 00:47:04.996 -Welcome to the 6th annual 870 00:47:05.083 --> 00:47:06.475 Lesbians Who Tech and Allies Summit! 871 00:47:06.562 --> 00:47:07.955 [boisterous cheers, applause] 872 00:47:10.566 --> 00:47:11.785 I started Lesbians Who Tech 873 00:47:11.916 --> 00:47:14.135 because I felt like my voice was missing. 874 00:47:14.266 --> 00:47:16.659 I just had never seen professional queer women 875 00:47:16.790 --> 00:47:21.055 in one place like that, that immense kind of realness. 876 00:47:21.186 --> 00:47:24.232 We live in a systemic, racist, sexist, anti-LGBTQ world. 877 00:47:24.363 --> 00:47:26.539 That's just the way it is. And we have to fight it. 878 00:47:26.669 --> 00:47:28.193 We have to fight it every day. 879 00:47:28.323 --> 00:47:30.325 -So, you have all of these conversations 880 00:47:30.456 --> 00:47:31.849 that are happening, but they don't necessarily 881 00:47:31.936 --> 00:47:33.372 always include us, right? 882 00:47:33.459 --> 00:47:35.853 They don't include the LGBTQ community. 883 00:47:35.983 --> 00:47:37.593 They don't include the Black community. 884 00:47:37.724 --> 00:47:40.509 They don't include quote-unquote "marginalized" communities. 885 00:47:40.640 --> 00:47:43.556 And so, by creating a space and place for people, 886 00:47:43.686 --> 00:47:45.166 you're creating community. 887 00:47:46.298 --> 00:47:49.649 LEANNE: I became an adult around the age of queer versus lesbian. 888 00:47:49.779 --> 00:47:51.738 Anyone over a certain age is team lesbian, 889 00:47:51.869 --> 00:47:53.783 and anyone under a certain age is team queer. 890 00:47:53.871 --> 00:47:55.524 And I was like, why? 891 00:47:55.611 --> 00:47:58.005 And obviously, older women, the word "queer" was derogatory. 892 00:47:58.136 --> 00:47:59.441 I just think a lot of young people kind of 893 00:47:59.528 --> 00:48:01.182 felt like "lesbian" is this like, 894 00:48:01.313 --> 00:48:03.228 softball coach in the Midwest, you know? 895 00:48:03.315 --> 00:48:04.751 I thought long and hard about the name 896 00:48:04.882 --> 00:48:06.361 when I was starting this. 897 00:48:06.448 --> 00:48:08.668 I mean "lesbian" is not the greatest-sounding word. 898 00:48:08.798 --> 00:48:09.712 "Gay" is much better. 899 00:48:09.843 --> 00:48:12.063 It's one syllable. It's shorter. 900 00:48:12.193 --> 00:48:14.021 But it's our word, and I was like, fuck it. 901 00:48:14.108 --> 00:48:17.068 We need to claim this, and we need to make it not this 902 00:48:17.198 --> 00:48:19.853 stuffy, Birkenstock, old white lady thing. 903 00:48:20.898 --> 00:48:22.551 I don't think Lesbians Who Tech would be able to exist 904 00:48:22.638 --> 00:48:24.336 without things like "Curve." 905 00:48:24.466 --> 00:48:28.079 I mean, we're built upon the foundation of that early work. 906 00:48:28.209 --> 00:48:30.908 I mean, this conference is lesbian visibility. 907 00:48:32.126 --> 00:48:34.999 KATE: What's happening here right now is Franco's legacy! 908 00:48:39.003 --> 00:48:41.179 [many conversations] 909 00:48:47.272 --> 00:48:49.796 [motorcycles rev, dance music starts] 910 00:48:54.235 --> 00:48:57.891 [music with a heavy beat] 911 00:48:58.631 --> 00:49:02.026 -The early '90s in San Francisco was the heyday. 912 00:49:02.156 --> 00:49:05.986 San Francisco was so on fire and so alive. 913 00:49:06.073 --> 00:49:08.815 We owned Valencia Street in the Mission. 914 00:49:08.946 --> 00:49:14.995 You'd just walk from Artemis Cafe to Amelia's Bar 915 00:49:15.126 --> 00:49:18.912 to Osento Bathhouse because we'd never been able to do that. 916 00:49:18.999 --> 00:49:20.827 So, we went to this extreme of like, 917 00:49:20.958 --> 00:49:22.872 we're gonna make our own culture. 918 00:49:23.830 --> 00:49:25.571 -I grew up in Ohio. 919 00:49:25.701 --> 00:49:27.703 If I were to have been out, 920 00:49:27.834 --> 00:49:30.445 I would've immediately been gay bashed. 921 00:49:30.576 --> 00:49:35.146 I escaped [laughs] on the Greyhound out here, 922 00:49:35.276 --> 00:49:37.670 and I found my tribe. 923 00:49:39.019 --> 00:49:43.328 -Growing up in a small town, I had to silence myself a lot. 924 00:49:43.458 --> 00:49:45.983 So, when I arrived in San Francisco, 925 00:49:46.070 --> 00:49:48.289 I was not silent at all. 926 00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:50.988 I took up as much space as I possibly could. 927 00:49:51.118 --> 00:49:53.294 To be in a place where you're just literally 928 00:49:53.425 --> 00:49:54.904 running down the street with your shirt off, 929 00:49:55.035 --> 00:49:57.472 which I did in many circumstances. 930 00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:59.387 [cheering] 931 00:50:01.563 --> 00:50:03.783 FRANCO: It was really an exciting, amazing, 932 00:50:03.913 --> 00:50:06.655 sexually-freeing time. 933 00:50:06.786 --> 00:50:10.746 RACHEL: Queer sexuality was really coming into its own, and 934 00:50:10.877 --> 00:50:12.966 the founding of this magazine was really part of that. 935 00:50:23.281 --> 00:50:25.718 [gentle music] 936 00:50:25.848 --> 00:50:29.156 FRANCO: My plan for the magazine was to show the inclusiveness 937 00:50:29.287 --> 00:50:30.897 of the lesbian community. 938 00:50:31.028 --> 00:50:33.726 We put African-American women on the cover, 939 00:50:33.856 --> 00:50:39.297 we put older women on the cover, we put all shapes and sizes. 940 00:50:39.427 --> 00:50:41.908 ANITA: Upcoming lesbians could identify with 941 00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:44.389 someone in those pages. 942 00:50:45.433 --> 00:50:49.524 JEWELLE: For the magazine to have photographs 943 00:50:49.655 --> 00:50:52.092 of all different kinds of lesbians, 944 00:50:52.179 --> 00:50:53.746 that was a huge deal. 945 00:50:53.876 --> 00:50:57.619 It wasn't a glamour magazine. It was a community magazine. 946 00:50:57.750 --> 00:51:01.058 And everybody in the community saw themselves in "Curve." 947 00:51:01.188 --> 00:51:05.671 PAGE: The media pours this avalanche of identity, 948 00:51:05.801 --> 00:51:10.067 and well, it's missing 75% of the people in the world. 949 00:51:10.154 --> 00:51:13.766 Frank's magazine brought all the women forward and said, 950 00:51:13.896 --> 00:51:15.376 look how beautiful we are. 951 00:51:16.073 --> 00:51:20.251 -This magazine was about arts and theater and sports 952 00:51:20.381 --> 00:51:23.123 and culture and politics. 953 00:51:23.254 --> 00:51:25.082 Talking about marriage equality. 954 00:51:25.212 --> 00:51:27.388 No one was talking about that in the '90s. 955 00:51:27.475 --> 00:51:30.391 Today, there are 700 LGBTQ elected officials 956 00:51:30.522 --> 00:51:31.523 in the United States. 957 00:51:31.610 --> 00:51:34.482 Back then? Maybe 20-25 and growing. 958 00:51:34.613 --> 00:51:37.181 But she would highlight them every single month in there, 959 00:51:37.268 --> 00:51:39.270 to ensure that people were talking about how important 960 00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:42.664 it is to have LGBTQ representation. 961 00:51:42.795 --> 00:51:46.277 -Knowing about other people's experiences, their stories, 962 00:51:46.407 --> 00:51:48.975 helping you to overcome your own insecurities 963 00:51:49.106 --> 00:51:51.847 about your sexuality, coming out. 964 00:51:51.978 --> 00:51:53.632 There was a lotta coming out stories. 965 00:51:53.762 --> 00:51:57.157 And then stories about marriage and about the legal struggles 966 00:51:57.244 --> 00:52:00.160 of gay women trying to adopt. 967 00:52:00.291 --> 00:52:03.207 RACHEL: When I was trying to get pregnant, I wrote a piece 968 00:52:03.294 --> 00:52:05.426 on that journey for the magazine. 969 00:52:05.557 --> 00:52:09.038 That was a really groundbreaking topic to cover. 970 00:52:09.169 --> 00:52:13.042 -It showcased feminine lesbians for the first time. 971 00:52:13.130 --> 00:52:15.436 I mean, that was huge for me. 972 00:52:15.567 --> 00:52:18.265 It's like if you wanna be really butch, that is completely cool. 973 00:52:18.396 --> 00:52:19.919 But if you don't, if you wanna be femme, if you wanna 974 00:52:20.049 --> 00:52:22.313 wear lipstick, if you wanna wear dresses, if you wanna 975 00:52:22.443 --> 00:52:24.228 cut your hair short or not, that's your business. 976 00:52:24.315 --> 00:52:25.794 And it's all okay. 977 00:52:27.013 --> 00:52:30.712 LEA: When the magazine put me on the cover, it allowed women 978 00:52:30.843 --> 00:52:35.021 in our own community to see a well-spoken, funny, intelligent, 979 00:52:35.152 --> 00:52:38.503 charming, gentlemanly butch, which is basically who I am 980 00:52:38.633 --> 00:52:40.069 unless you cross my fuckin' path. 981 00:52:41.767 --> 00:52:44.030 JUDEA: They had a article, "Lipstick and Dipstick," 982 00:52:44.161 --> 00:52:46.250 which I thought was so brilliant that they would have 983 00:52:46.337 --> 00:52:50.950 the feminine and the masculine side of lesbianism together. 984 00:52:51.080 --> 00:52:54.040 ANITA: The first time I saw the magazine, I remember there was 985 00:52:54.171 --> 00:52:57.696 this brown woman on the cover, Linda Villarosa. 986 00:52:57.783 --> 00:53:02.353 Just the power of seeing me. [sniffs back tears] 987 00:53:09.055 --> 00:53:12.319 KATE: There's so much about the word "lesbian" 988 00:53:12.450 --> 00:53:15.670 that is freighted with shame and stigma. 989 00:53:15.801 --> 00:53:19.500 That word has been sullied, it has been cheapened, 990 00:53:19.631 --> 00:53:21.763 it's been mocked. 991 00:53:21.894 --> 00:53:26.420 The dominant culture has tried to strip it of honor and dignity 992 00:53:26.551 --> 00:53:30.990 and pride and nuance and beauty and sacredness and all of that. 993 00:53:31.991 --> 00:53:36.256 The magazine said, here we are, and it's "lesbian!" 994 00:53:37.431 --> 00:53:39.085 And all of the sudden, you felt like maybe you were 995 00:53:39.216 --> 00:53:40.521 rebuilt a little bit inside. 996 00:53:44.743 --> 00:53:47.398 -After I saw the first issue, I knew right then that being 997 00:53:47.528 --> 00:53:50.270 the editor of a magazine like "Deneuve" was gonna be 998 00:53:50.401 --> 00:53:53.012 what I wanted to do with my life. 999 00:53:53.142 --> 00:53:56.015 I'd been married 16 years as a lesbian. 1000 00:53:56.145 --> 00:53:57.364 And she'd always been butch. 1001 00:53:57.495 --> 00:54:00.237 And by the time she came to me and said, 1002 00:54:00.367 --> 00:54:04.806 "I think I'm trans," I was like, "Yeah, you know. I know." 1003 00:54:04.937 --> 00:54:08.288 We went to Franco first and just said, 1004 00:54:08.419 --> 00:54:09.811 "Jake is coming out as trans. 1005 00:54:09.942 --> 00:54:11.857 Do you want us to keep this secret? 1006 00:54:11.987 --> 00:54:16.209 Or will I lose my job, or what's gonna happen?" 1007 00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:19.908 Franco said, "No, absolutely not. 1008 00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:23.303 You are the best person to be running this magazine. 1009 00:54:23.434 --> 00:54:26.915 We love Jake and accept him, and he's part of the family." 1010 00:54:27.046 --> 00:54:29.440 And it meant everything. 1011 00:54:30.615 --> 00:54:33.095 The magazine was never just a job. 1012 00:54:33.226 --> 00:54:35.837 It was a lifestyle. 1013 00:54:35.968 --> 00:54:38.492 To know that I wasn't gonna lose that because my partner 1014 00:54:38.623 --> 00:54:44.455 had found himself after 16 years, I was happy for him 1015 00:54:44.585 --> 00:54:47.284 and then thrilled for me. [chuckles] 1016 00:54:47.414 --> 00:54:50.504 You can actually see the imprint of the impact we had 1017 00:54:50.635 --> 00:54:52.332 by welcoming trans men. 1018 00:54:52.463 --> 00:54:56.293 And the same thing for bringing in transgender women 1019 00:54:56.380 --> 00:54:58.120 who identify as lesbian. 1020 00:54:58.251 --> 00:55:01.123 We covered some trans lesbians very early 1021 00:55:01.254 --> 00:55:03.909 compared to some other publications. 1022 00:55:04.039 --> 00:55:05.606 We didn't do as great of a job of covering 1023 00:55:05.737 --> 00:55:07.347 black and brown women. 1024 00:55:07.478 --> 00:55:11.786 Our failing was that we didn't push more to make it happen. 1025 00:55:11.917 --> 00:55:15.181 The goal was always to be as intersectional as possible, 1026 00:55:15.312 --> 00:55:18.619 and we were able to accomplish that as the years went on. 1027 00:55:18.706 --> 00:55:22.231 We're able to see how much more we need to do now. 1028 00:55:31.023 --> 00:55:33.025 DENICE: So, Amber Hikes, I'm really excited that you're 1029 00:55:33.112 --> 00:55:36.158 gonna be able to meet her because she, 1030 00:55:36.289 --> 00:55:37.682 for the past two years, 1031 00:55:37.812 --> 00:55:39.945 has led the Mayor's office of LGBT affairs and has 1032 00:55:40.075 --> 00:55:42.948 done some really incredible work addressing 1033 00:55:43.078 --> 00:55:45.559 racism within the LGBTQ community. 1034 00:55:48.910 --> 00:55:50.956 FRANCO: Hey! AMBER: Hey! 1035 00:55:51.086 --> 00:55:52.000 It's good to see you. [laughs] 1036 00:55:52.131 --> 00:55:53.088 DENICE: It's good to see you too! 1037 00:55:53.219 --> 00:55:53.959 FRANCO: I'm so excited to meet you. 1038 00:55:54.089 --> 00:55:55.264 AMBER: Same here. 1039 00:55:55.395 --> 00:55:57.005 I'm really excited to meet you as well. 1040 00:55:57.919 --> 00:56:00.661 There were not a lot of ways that you could see yourself. 1041 00:56:00.792 --> 00:56:02.620 Way before "The L Word" there was "Curve," 1042 00:56:02.707 --> 00:56:05.231 and I could see myself represented there. 1043 00:56:05.362 --> 00:56:07.233 DENICE: There's something to be said around that moment that 1044 00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:11.629 a young person watches a video where they feel affirmed 1045 00:56:11.716 --> 00:56:14.893 in their sexuality or their gender presentation or identity. 1046 00:56:15.023 --> 00:56:18.244 And walking into a bookstore and looking at "Curve," 1047 00:56:18.375 --> 00:56:20.072 right, on a table. 1048 00:56:20.202 --> 00:56:23.641 I see that same moment, that coming of age moment where 1049 00:56:23.771 --> 00:56:25.425 something in you unlocks and says, "It's okay." 1050 00:56:25.556 --> 00:56:26.818 AMBER: It's okay. 1051 00:56:26.948 --> 00:56:28.689 And there's other people that are like me. Yeah. 1052 00:56:28.776 --> 00:56:30.648 DENICE: You know, one of the things about social media, 1053 00:56:30.735 --> 00:56:34.129 like folks who've been most marginalized really having, 1054 00:56:34.216 --> 00:56:38.046 taking the microphone, being able to create their own content 1055 00:56:38.177 --> 00:56:40.788 and tell their own stories in their own words and then 1056 00:56:40.875 --> 00:56:42.573 be connected to a wide audience. 1057 00:56:42.703 --> 00:56:44.749 We want representation, but we also want ownership. 1058 00:56:44.879 --> 00:56:47.447 We also want to be able to make decisions, right? 1059 00:56:47.578 --> 00:56:49.144 -'Cause folks were saying over and over again, they just 1060 00:56:49.231 --> 00:56:50.798 didn't feel like they had that seat at the table. 1061 00:56:50.929 --> 00:56:52.409 They didn't feel like they had a voice. 1062 00:56:52.496 --> 00:56:54.454 They weren't reflected in the leadership of our organizations, 1063 00:56:54.585 --> 00:56:56.369 our LGBT organizations. 1064 00:56:56.500 --> 00:56:57.892 Policy wasn't really impacting them. 1065 00:56:57.979 --> 00:57:00.068 So, the symbolic change was 1066 00:57:00.199 --> 00:57:02.680 to add these black and brown stripes to the flag. 1067 00:57:02.810 --> 00:57:05.247 So, we raised the flag literally right here at these flag poles 1068 00:57:05.378 --> 00:57:07.641 on a Thursday, and by Friday morning, 1069 00:57:07.772 --> 00:57:09.382 it had gone completely viral. 1070 00:57:09.469 --> 00:57:12.820 CNN had picked it up, "HuffPost" picked it up, 1071 00:57:12.951 --> 00:57:16.171 Breitbart picked it up. [laughs] It was a scary time. 1072 00:57:16.302 --> 00:57:18.826 I joke about it now, but the hate mail was out of control. 1073 00:57:18.957 --> 00:57:20.654 The death threats were out of control. 1074 00:57:20.785 --> 00:57:22.917 The mayor got death threats on my behalf! 1075 00:57:23.004 --> 00:57:24.919 Even people were so angry, it's like at least you're 1076 00:57:25.050 --> 00:57:26.660 finally talking about it. -Right. 1077 00:57:26.791 --> 00:57:29.446 -Because I feel like white folks in the LGBT community have, 1078 00:57:29.576 --> 00:57:31.317 I mean, that's how privilege works. 1079 00:57:31.404 --> 00:57:32.753 You were able to ignore it for so long, right? 1080 00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:34.407 -Right. Exactly. -And so, now, it's like fine. 1081 00:57:34.494 --> 00:57:36.104 Yell at me and tell me racism doesn't exist. 1082 00:57:36.235 --> 00:57:38.629 But at least you're talking about it. [laughs] 1083 00:57:38.759 --> 00:57:41.153 -I think something that Amber and I often have to 1084 00:57:41.283 --> 00:57:44.330 remind folks of, and just in conversation within 1085 00:57:44.461 --> 00:57:46.506 the LGBTQ community or certain parts of it, 1086 00:57:46.593 --> 00:57:48.595 is that LGBTQ rights is immigrant rights. 1087 00:57:48.682 --> 00:57:51.032 -That's right. That's right. -Is black and brown rights. 1088 00:57:51.163 --> 00:57:53.121 -It's disability rights. -Is disability rights. 1089 00:57:53.252 --> 00:57:56.342 And that these issues are connected, and systems 1090 00:57:56.473 --> 00:57:58.518 of oppression are layered and connected as well. 1091 00:57:58.649 --> 00:58:01.390 And so, we can't have these siloed conversations. 1092 00:58:01.521 --> 00:58:04.219 -I know for me and the work that I do, I am reminded very 1093 00:58:04.350 --> 00:58:09.224 literally every day about my predecessors and the giants that 1094 00:58:09.355 --> 00:58:11.662 really paved the way for any of the work that we're able to do. 1095 00:58:11.792 --> 00:58:13.794 -I would not be here if it wasn't for the work of 1096 00:58:13.925 --> 00:58:16.362 Gloria Anzaldua, Cherrie Moraga in particular, 1097 00:58:16.493 --> 00:58:18.843 Tatiana De La Tierra who really were the first - 1098 00:58:18.973 --> 00:58:22.760 -All women we've covered in the magazine too. 1099 00:58:22.890 --> 00:58:24.196 -And this is why "Curve"... -It's amazing! 1100 00:58:24.326 --> 00:58:25.719 -You know? It's amazing! 1101 00:58:25.806 --> 00:58:27.286 -Hey, Franco, this was such an honor. 1102 00:58:27.416 --> 00:58:28.461 -Thank you so much. -God, this was amazing. 1103 00:58:28.592 --> 00:58:29.810 And thank you. 1104 00:58:29.897 --> 00:58:33.379 Thank you from younger me, from like age 16. 1105 00:58:33.510 --> 00:58:37.731 -From little baby gay, pre-gay! Almost bi, not really though. 1106 00:58:37.862 --> 00:58:38.906 -[laughs] Oh, you doing all of it. 1107 00:58:39.037 --> 00:58:40.952 -We doing all of it! [laughter] 1108 00:58:42.127 --> 00:58:44.564 [upbeat music] 1109 00:58:44.695 --> 00:58:46.740 FRANCO: If you don't have a good cover, you're not gonna attract 1110 00:58:46.827 --> 00:58:48.742 somebody to buy it on the newsstand. 1111 00:58:48.873 --> 00:58:52.529 To start off with, we put women in the community, either that 1112 00:58:52.659 --> 00:58:55.444 we thought were hot and sexy, or somebody on staff 1113 00:58:55.575 --> 00:58:58.447 was possibly sleeping with, I don't know. 1114 00:58:58.535 --> 00:59:02.060 But we'd always hoped to have a celebrity. 1115 00:59:02.756 --> 00:59:06.673 The only out lesbian that I could think of at the time 1116 00:59:06.804 --> 00:59:08.545 was Martina Navratilova. 1117 00:59:09.763 --> 00:59:12.766 And I'm pretty sure I thought Lily Tomlin was a lesbian, 1118 00:59:12.853 --> 00:59:14.333 although she was not out. 1119 00:59:14.463 --> 00:59:15.987 -Johnny, it's a pleasure. 1120 00:59:16.074 --> 00:59:19.730 -So, I tried writing to Martina Navratilova's people, 1121 00:59:19.860 --> 00:59:21.514 didn't get a response. 1122 00:59:21.645 --> 00:59:25.562 I tried writing to Lily Tomlin's person. 1123 00:59:25.692 --> 00:59:27.738 One day, an intern said to me, 1124 00:59:27.868 --> 00:59:30.001 "Oh, somebody called while you were in the bathroom. 1125 00:59:30.088 --> 00:59:32.612 She said her name was Lily Tomlin or something like that." 1126 00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:35.789 And I'm like, "Wait. Lily Tomlin 1127 00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:38.183 called this office, and I was in the bathroom?" 1128 00:59:38.313 --> 00:59:40.620 And I said, "Tell me what she said." 1129 00:59:40.751 --> 00:59:45.799 "She said she would love to be on the cover, 1130 00:59:45.930 --> 00:59:49.324 but she just doesn't think the timing is right. 1131 00:59:49.411 --> 00:59:52.153 She can't, and she's sure you will understand." 1132 00:59:52.284 --> 00:59:56.897 RACHEL: It was very frustrating to have these singers and actors 1133 00:59:57.028 --> 01:00:00.248 that we knew, as a community, were lesbian-identified 1134 01:00:00.379 --> 01:00:03.861 and were adored by so many lesbians, 1135 01:00:03.991 --> 01:00:05.819 and we couldn't get them on the cover! 1136 01:00:06.907 --> 01:00:10.389 FRANCO: Our first big celebrity was Melissa Etheridge. 1137 01:00:11.390 --> 01:00:14.828 I was so blown away that she said yes. 1138 01:00:14.959 --> 01:00:18.049 It was justifying that hey, we've arrived. 1139 01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:20.138 We actually landed our first celebrity, 1140 01:00:20.225 --> 01:00:21.530 "celesbian." 1141 01:00:22.444 --> 01:00:25.404 I got very involved in the election of Clinton. 1142 01:00:25.491 --> 01:00:27.232 REPORTER: For the first time in a race for the White House, 1143 01:00:27.362 --> 01:00:30.365 gay and lesbian issues were an important part of the campaign. 1144 01:00:30.496 --> 01:00:33.673 MELISSA: I was invited to the first ever triangle ball 1145 01:00:33.804 --> 01:00:36.023 at the inaugural celebration. 1146 01:00:36.154 --> 01:00:39.636 This was the first time that gays 1147 01:00:39.766 --> 01:00:40.767 put anything like this together. 1148 01:00:40.854 --> 01:00:42.508 The gays were acknowledged 1149 01:00:42.595 --> 01:00:45.685 in helping Bill Clinton get elected. 1150 01:00:45.772 --> 01:00:47.948 We were having a blast! Everyone was. 1151 01:00:48.035 --> 01:00:53.040 KD Lang, she had just recently come out, and she calls me up. 1152 01:00:54.085 --> 01:00:56.174 And I'm proud to say right now, I'm very proud to have been 1153 01:00:56.304 --> 01:00:58.916 a lesbian all my life. [cheers, applause] 1154 01:00:59.003 --> 01:01:00.308 Wow! The place went crazy. 1155 01:01:00.439 --> 01:01:02.789 And I was ah, I think I just came out. 1156 01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:04.965 Someone called and said, "Hey, there's this 1157 01:01:05.052 --> 01:01:08.099 new magazine for lesbians." 1158 01:01:08.229 --> 01:01:09.753 And I was like, well, this is amazing! 1159 01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:11.145 This is great. 1160 01:01:11.276 --> 01:01:15.323 I was so happy to be able to help the magazine, 1161 01:01:15.454 --> 01:01:16.673 and for them to help me. 1162 01:01:16.803 --> 01:01:18.979 I think it worked both ways. 1163 01:01:19.110 --> 01:01:21.634 So, a year went by till we landed our next celebrities, 1164 01:01:21.721 --> 01:01:23.810 which were the Indigo Girls. 1165 01:01:23.941 --> 01:01:26.726 RACHEL: We were actually the first glossy magazine 1166 01:01:26.857 --> 01:01:29.642 to put Ani DiFranco on its cover. 1167 01:01:29.729 --> 01:01:32.601 And while I was interviewing her on the telephone, she told me 1168 01:01:32.732 --> 01:01:35.039 she had backed up the toilet in her hotel room 1169 01:01:35.126 --> 01:01:36.475 by shaving her head into the toilet. 1170 01:01:36.605 --> 01:01:40.827 I remember young Rachel Maddow in her leather jacket, 1171 01:01:40.958 --> 01:01:42.873 seeing her for the first time. 1172 01:01:43.003 --> 01:01:45.571 CAL: We all lusted over the covers though, right? 1173 01:01:45.702 --> 01:01:49.836 And we were often elbowing each other out of the way 1174 01:01:49.967 --> 01:01:51.882 to who would get to go on the photo shoot, 1175 01:01:52.012 --> 01:01:53.971 who would get to go on the interview, 1176 01:01:54.101 --> 01:01:56.103 who would get to be on the phone call. 1177 01:01:56.190 --> 01:01:58.715 Lucy Lawless was my favorite. 1178 01:01:58.845 --> 01:02:00.151 Lea DeLaria. 1179 01:02:00.281 --> 01:02:01.805 Marga Gomez. 1180 01:02:01.935 --> 01:02:04.938 I just wanna say, my favorite show is "Love Connection." 1181 01:02:05.069 --> 01:02:09.073 The favorite show of many gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals. 1182 01:02:09.160 --> 01:02:11.162 Because it makes us feel better about our choices. 1183 01:02:11.292 --> 01:02:13.164 [cheering] 1184 01:02:13.294 --> 01:02:15.209 FRANCO: We thought it would be a no-brainer to get ads 1185 01:02:15.340 --> 01:02:18.169 like tampons and razors. 1186 01:02:18.299 --> 01:02:21.433 But the misconceived notion that lesbians don't shave their legs, 1187 01:02:21.563 --> 01:02:23.957 and that we don't use tampons. 1188 01:02:26.177 --> 01:02:29.267 Advertisers really, you know, struggled with figuring out 1189 01:02:29.397 --> 01:02:31.748 how are they going to advertise in there. 1190 01:02:31.835 --> 01:02:34.446 INTERVIEWER: Is there a risk for a company when it advertises in 1191 01:02:34.576 --> 01:02:39.146 gay magazines that a right wing group might then indeed boycott? 1192 01:02:39.277 --> 01:02:40.931 GUEST: Absolutely. 1193 01:02:41.018 --> 01:02:44.891 The right is very organized, and they've used gays and lesbians 1194 01:02:44.978 --> 01:02:46.937 as demon figures for years now. 1195 01:02:47.067 --> 01:02:49.113 REPORTER: "Deneuve," now in its third year, has only 1196 01:02:49.200 --> 01:02:52.246 two mainstream ads in its latest issue. 1197 01:02:52.333 --> 01:02:53.857 FRANCO: It's hard selling a gay product, 1198 01:02:53.987 --> 01:02:56.033 and it's very hard selling a lesbian product. 1199 01:02:56.163 --> 01:02:59.558 So, I do think that there's kind of this 1200 01:02:59.688 --> 01:03:01.560 double negative going on. 1201 01:03:01.647 --> 01:03:07.174 KATIE: The day we got Bud Light to advertise was huge. 1202 01:03:07.305 --> 01:03:09.307 We felt like we'd suddenly arrived. 1203 01:03:09.394 --> 01:03:11.396 FRANCO: Bud Light was our feather in the cap with our 1204 01:03:11.526 --> 01:03:13.398 first national ad. 1205 01:03:13.528 --> 01:03:17.141 Subaru was known as the lesbian car of choice, and they 1206 01:03:17.271 --> 01:03:20.753 reinforced that by making lesbian-specific ads. 1207 01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:24.148 And it just sort of opened up different avenues for us 1208 01:03:24.278 --> 01:03:26.628 to break into different advertising markets. 1209 01:03:26.759 --> 01:03:29.457 LAURA: She had this amazing effect that was way beyond 1210 01:03:29.588 --> 01:03:30.807 just the readership of "Curve" magazine 1211 01:03:30.937 --> 01:03:32.243 and way beyond the community. 1212 01:03:32.373 --> 01:03:34.941 The things that were discussed in the magazine 1213 01:03:35.072 --> 01:03:37.683 were then picked up by mainstream publications. 1214 01:03:37.814 --> 01:03:39.119 Those were the things that led 1215 01:03:39.250 --> 01:03:41.121 to all the gains that we have made. 1216 01:03:41.252 --> 01:03:42.644 LEA: The magazine contributed greatly to that. 1217 01:03:42.731 --> 01:03:44.342 It was all over the world. 1218 01:03:44.429 --> 01:03:46.953 Something shifted, where lesbians started 1219 01:03:47.084 --> 01:03:48.868 to enter popular culture. 1220 01:03:48.999 --> 01:03:52.089 It began with KD Lang, Melissa Etheridge, 1221 01:03:52.219 --> 01:03:55.005 and very soon after that time, Ellen and Rosie. 1222 01:03:55.135 --> 01:03:57.268 ELLEN: Susan...I'm gay. 1223 01:03:57.398 --> 01:04:01.098 [uproarious laughter, cheers from audience] 1224 01:04:03.274 --> 01:04:05.580 We do find out that the character is Lebanese. And.... 1225 01:04:05.711 --> 01:04:06.843 [laughter] 1226 01:04:06.973 --> 01:04:09.584 -Lebanese. -Yeah, yeah. 1227 01:04:09.715 --> 01:04:12.283 -Just outta the blue? She just - -No, there've been clues. 1228 01:04:12.370 --> 01:04:13.458 -Oh, really? -I mean, you've seen her eating 1229 01:04:13.588 --> 01:04:14.894 baba ghanoush, if you've watched the show at all. 1230 01:04:15.025 --> 01:04:16.461 [laughter] -Baba ghanoush. 1231 01:04:16.591 --> 01:04:19.725 -And hummus and big, big fan of Casey Casem 1232 01:04:19.856 --> 01:04:21.988 and Kathy and Jimmy's. [laughter] 1233 01:04:22.119 --> 01:04:24.295 Yeah, and - -Hey! Wait a minute! 1234 01:04:24.425 --> 01:04:26.210 I'm a big fan of Casey Casem. Listen. 1235 01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:27.472 CASEY: You go, girl! 1236 01:04:27.602 --> 01:04:29.866 [laughter, applause] 1237 01:04:29.996 --> 01:04:31.955 -Maybe I'm Lebanese. -You could be Lebanese. 1238 01:04:32.042 --> 01:04:34.348 -I could be Lebanese myself. I didn't know that. 1239 01:04:34.479 --> 01:04:37.047 [laughter, cheers] -You know, sometimes that's odd. 1240 01:04:37.177 --> 01:04:39.136 'Cause I pick up sometimes that you might be Lebanese. 1241 01:04:39.266 --> 01:04:40.920 -Yeah! [laughter] 1242 01:04:41.051 --> 01:04:42.008 MERRYN: There was Sandra Bernhard. 1243 01:04:42.139 --> 01:04:43.531 There was Madonna. 1244 01:04:43.662 --> 01:04:46.099 They were glamorous, they were successful, they were at 1245 01:04:46.230 --> 01:04:49.320 the top of their fields, and this was newsworthy. 1246 01:04:49.450 --> 01:04:51.452 And on top of that, it became fashionable. 1247 01:04:51.583 --> 01:04:55.065 Cindy Crawford did that famous "Vanity Fair" cover 1248 01:04:55.195 --> 01:04:57.763 with KD Lang. So, it was in the air. 1249 01:04:57.850 --> 01:04:59.286 And it really entered the zeitgeist, 1250 01:04:59.417 --> 01:05:01.071 and it became attractive. 1251 01:05:01.201 --> 01:05:04.683 Straight women are now seeing lesbians as chic, 1252 01:05:04.813 --> 01:05:06.903 although we always have been. 1253 01:05:07.033 --> 01:05:09.818 MERRYN: The impact of lesbian chic was to give us 1254 01:05:09.906 --> 01:05:11.385 a sense of identity. 1255 01:05:11.516 --> 01:05:15.215 It was to give us a profile that we hadn't had. 1256 01:05:15.346 --> 01:05:17.783 LAURA: When "The L Word" came out, for example, people were 1257 01:05:17.870 --> 01:05:20.090 skeptical about it, particularly 'cause there were a lot of 1258 01:05:20.220 --> 01:05:22.788 femmes in there, more than I think some people wanted. 1259 01:05:22.875 --> 01:05:25.660 And yet, they were able to not only create a dialogue 1260 01:05:25.747 --> 01:05:27.880 in the magazine and let people talk about 1261 01:05:28.011 --> 01:05:29.360 the good things of it, 1262 01:05:29.490 --> 01:05:30.622 the things they wished they had seen differently, 1263 01:05:30.752 --> 01:05:31.928 but they were putting those images on the cover. 1264 01:05:32.058 --> 01:05:34.060 They made "The L Word" credible. 1265 01:05:34.191 --> 01:05:36.149 They made it part of the mainstream. 1266 01:05:37.455 --> 01:05:40.327 [driving music] 1267 01:05:45.289 --> 01:05:48.901 ♪ I got this feeling on a summer day when you were gone 1268 01:05:49.032 --> 01:05:50.772 ♪ I crashed my car into the bridge 1269 01:05:50.903 --> 01:05:52.818 ♪ I watched and let it burn 1270 01:05:52.905 --> 01:05:56.430 ♪ I threw your shit into a bag and pushed it down the stairs 1271 01:05:56.561 --> 01:05:58.955 ♪ I crashed my car into the bridge 1272 01:05:59.085 --> 01:06:02.523 ♪ I. Don't. Care. I love it 1273 01:06:02.697 --> 01:06:04.743 ♪ I don't care ♪ 1274 01:06:06.788 --> 01:06:09.661 MARIAH: I started The Dinah in 1991. 1275 01:06:09.791 --> 01:06:11.663 We really try to create an environment of empowerment 1276 01:06:11.793 --> 01:06:13.708 and female visibility. 1277 01:06:13.839 --> 01:06:16.363 I can't tell you how many stories 1278 01:06:16.494 --> 01:06:20.150 of people who come here to find a sense of community 1279 01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:22.239 that will make them feel whole. 1280 01:06:22.326 --> 01:06:26.808 We are becoming so accepted in mainstream society. 1281 01:06:26.895 --> 01:06:28.462 We're not quite there yet but we're much closer 1282 01:06:28.593 --> 01:06:30.290 than we've ever been. 1283 01:06:30.421 --> 01:06:34.033 And yet, we still need our own spaces because 1284 01:06:34.164 --> 01:06:35.774 we still have our own culture. 1285 01:06:36.862 --> 01:06:41.345 "Curve" created a bridge for people that connected them 1286 01:06:41.475 --> 01:06:44.609 to our community and to their own self-worth. 1287 01:06:44.696 --> 01:06:48.352 Because our spaces, and having our spaces, are critical 1288 01:06:48.482 --> 01:06:49.701 to our collective self-esteem. 1289 01:06:49.788 --> 01:06:52.225 [driving music continues] 1290 01:06:52.356 --> 01:06:55.620 ♪ I don't care I love it 1291 01:06:56.142 --> 01:06:59.058 ♪ I don't care I love it ♪ 1292 01:07:00.712 --> 01:07:03.323 RACHEL: We got someone we wanted for the cover. 1293 01:07:03.454 --> 01:07:07.284 We got all these great writers to contribute pieces. 1294 01:07:07.371 --> 01:07:10.548 We got columnists who would write regularly. 1295 01:07:10.678 --> 01:07:14.465 We got a great reception everywhere we went. 1296 01:07:15.379 --> 01:07:16.641 FRANCO: And what she's done is so courageous. 1297 01:07:16.771 --> 01:07:20.862 She's risked her friends, her family, her job, her house 1298 01:07:20.993 --> 01:07:23.517 to come and tell you who she is. 1299 01:07:23.604 --> 01:07:25.693 And for that, I think every woman and every person 1300 01:07:25.824 --> 01:07:27.739 in this audience should give her a hand. 1301 01:07:27.869 --> 01:07:30.481 RACHEL: Franco becoming a celebrity and representative 1302 01:07:30.611 --> 01:07:33.832 of a new wave of lesbians in the community, 1303 01:07:33.962 --> 01:07:37.227 everything was a triumph, and everything felt good. 1304 01:07:37.357 --> 01:07:40.317 SANDI: It had become a name that was recognizable. 1305 01:07:40.447 --> 01:07:42.275 FRANCO: Our subscription numbers were rising. 1306 01:07:42.406 --> 01:07:44.799 Our newsstand sales were great. 1307 01:07:44.886 --> 01:07:46.888 We're starting to get national ads. 1308 01:07:47.019 --> 01:07:48.934 Things are really good. 1309 01:07:49.065 --> 01:07:53.112 And then one day this letter arrived at the door: 1310 01:07:54.287 --> 01:07:55.767 a lawsuit. 1311 01:07:56.942 --> 01:07:59.336 The air just went out of everything like phhhooooo. 1312 01:08:03.731 --> 01:08:05.385 [somber music] 1313 01:08:05.516 --> 01:08:08.562 We were sued by a French actress named Catherine Deneuve 1314 01:08:08.649 --> 01:08:09.824 over the name of the magazine. 1315 01:08:11.826 --> 01:08:13.132 She didn't want her name associated 1316 01:08:13.219 --> 01:08:14.786 with a lesbian magazine. 1317 01:08:15.787 --> 01:08:17.919 She didn't want anybody to think she might be a lesbian. 1318 01:08:19.617 --> 01:08:22.315 Really, you can sue anybody for any reason. 1319 01:08:22.402 --> 01:08:23.882 Those with the deeper pockets win. 1320 01:08:28.365 --> 01:08:31.716 RACHEL: The lawsuit came as a complete surprise. 1321 01:08:31.846 --> 01:08:35.894 We couldn't believe that such a prestigious film star would 1322 01:08:35.981 --> 01:08:38.331 really be bothering about us. 1323 01:08:38.462 --> 01:08:42.074 And if anything, why wasn't she delighted that this wonderful 1324 01:08:42.205 --> 01:08:45.643 lesbian magazine potentially bore her name? 1325 01:08:46.557 --> 01:08:48.341 After all, she had been in "The Hunger," 1326 01:08:48.472 --> 01:08:51.388 which is a lesbian cult film. 1327 01:08:52.215 --> 01:08:54.260 DEB: It's like if I starred in three lesbian movies, but I 1328 01:08:54.347 --> 01:08:57.220 don't want you to call your magazine "Deb," you know? 1329 01:08:57.307 --> 01:09:00.571 SANDI: It seemed homophobic and all sorts of other things. 1330 01:09:00.658 --> 01:09:05.706 And so, it really hit Frank in a lotta different areas. 1331 01:09:05.793 --> 01:09:08.666 I suppose if I had been her lawyer at the time, 1332 01:09:08.796 --> 01:09:10.798 and she would've called me and said, "Hey, I have this 1333 01:09:10.929 --> 01:09:13.192 great idea for the name of a lesbian magazine. 1334 01:09:13.323 --> 01:09:16.935 I'd like to call it 'Deneuve,'" I probably woulda said, 1335 01:09:17.065 --> 01:09:18.589 "Do you have her permission?" 1336 01:09:19.329 --> 01:09:23.333 We were sued in two different countries: 1337 01:09:23.463 --> 01:09:26.597 two separate lawsuits, two sets of different counsel, 1338 01:09:26.727 --> 01:09:30.557 two sets of bills, two sets of filing fees. 1339 01:09:30.644 --> 01:09:35.301 We had to come up with lawyers, we had to come up with money, 1340 01:09:35.432 --> 01:09:37.608 and we had to go down and do a deposition. 1341 01:09:37.738 --> 01:09:39.697 Their focus was really on the name of the magazine. 1342 01:09:39.827 --> 01:09:41.612 Where did the name of the magazine come from? 1343 01:09:41.742 --> 01:09:44.484 It was her name, and we had no right to it. 1344 01:09:44.615 --> 01:09:46.530 And we were using it to sell our magazine. 1345 01:09:48.009 --> 01:09:50.316 All I kept thinking was 1346 01:09:50.447 --> 01:09:53.276 wow, they're gonna put us out of business. 1347 01:09:53.406 --> 01:09:57.367 Was this magazine gonna fold? Were we gonna lose our jobs? 1348 01:09:57.497 --> 01:10:00.108 We were terrified. And Franco was terrified. 1349 01:10:00.892 --> 01:10:04.548 She lost weight, got real pale. 1350 01:10:04.635 --> 01:10:08.595 You could tell the stress was really affecting her. 1351 01:10:08.726 --> 01:10:12.599 ROBIN: There was a light that was gone for a little while. 1352 01:10:12.730 --> 01:10:15.211 And at one point, she said, "Do I keep fighting, 1353 01:10:15.341 --> 01:10:18.170 or do I just take this as a sign and close it up?" 1354 01:10:19.127 --> 01:10:21.913 FRANCO: The lawsuit was the most stressful time in my whole life. 1355 01:10:23.523 --> 01:10:25.003 My hair started to fall out. 1356 01:10:26.831 --> 01:10:29.399 And I didn't let on to the true extent 1357 01:10:29.529 --> 01:10:33.403 of the financial difficulties that we were having. 1358 01:10:34.839 --> 01:10:37.233 DEB: Franco came to the office, and she was really stressed out. 1359 01:10:37.363 --> 01:10:39.147 Her face was red. She was sweating. 1360 01:10:39.278 --> 01:10:41.585 She slapped this thing down on the table. 1361 01:10:41.715 --> 01:10:43.848 [sighs] "We got the money for the next issue." 1362 01:10:43.978 --> 01:10:47.808 And in this roll of paper that she had set on the table was 1363 01:10:47.939 --> 01:10:51.551 a giant stack of money, like from a movie. 1364 01:10:51.682 --> 01:10:54.337 When I walked in to take money from a loan shark, 1365 01:10:54.467 --> 01:10:57.122 I thought, I have hit rock bottom. 1366 01:10:57.253 --> 01:11:00.995 And if this fails, I might be really physically in danger. 1367 01:11:02.214 --> 01:11:06.000 Everybody was just up in arms like, are you kidding? 1368 01:11:06.131 --> 01:11:08.394 You can't take this away from us. 1369 01:11:08.525 --> 01:11:11.484 We're gonna have to fight this together as a community. 1370 01:11:11.571 --> 01:11:16.141 We really had this urgency that we were not gonna be defeated. 1371 01:11:16.272 --> 01:11:19.449 You know, you come so far, you're not gonna go backward. 1372 01:11:19.579 --> 01:11:21.102 That's how people felt. 1373 01:11:21.233 --> 01:11:24.236 There was no way that we could let it happen. 1374 01:11:24.367 --> 01:11:27.848 She had this lesbian army behind her willing to 1375 01:11:27.979 --> 01:11:30.024 go into battle with her. 1376 01:11:31.112 --> 01:11:34.768 The magazine was definitely worth fighting for. 1377 01:11:35.639 --> 01:11:38.859 There's nothing I wouldn't do to save the magazine. 1378 01:11:41.732 --> 01:11:46.345 CAL: One morning, she comes in, in her full combat fatigues, 1379 01:11:46.476 --> 01:11:49.000 and she said, "Girls, we are not gonna let this beat us." 1380 01:11:49.087 --> 01:11:50.610 It turned the page. 1381 01:11:51.350 --> 01:11:53.613 FRANCO: Somebody had an idea that we could 1382 01:11:53.700 --> 01:11:56.442 throw a big fundraiser to save the magazine. 1383 01:11:56.573 --> 01:11:57.791 -I'd like to say good morning to everybody. 1384 01:11:57.922 --> 01:11:59.184 We didn't sleep at all last night. 1385 01:11:59.315 --> 01:12:00.490 -Not at all? -No ma'am. 1386 01:12:00.620 --> 01:12:02.187 Well, I actually snuck in a couple of hours. 1387 01:12:02.318 --> 01:12:04.058 Franco, 45 minutes. 1388 01:12:05.408 --> 01:12:06.974 -Good morning, sunshine. 1389 01:12:07.932 --> 01:12:11.370 PAGE: The idea was to gather all of the artists that we knew 1390 01:12:11.501 --> 01:12:15.287 and throw this massive party to raise resources 1391 01:12:15.418 --> 01:12:16.941 to help Frank fight. 1392 01:12:17.028 --> 01:12:19.030 It was our community really, really banding together 1393 01:12:19.160 --> 01:12:20.466 to support Frank. 1394 01:12:20.597 --> 01:12:21.989 -Tell us how you're feeling today. 1395 01:12:22.120 --> 01:12:25.341 -I'm really hoping - -That everybody comes today. 1396 01:12:25.471 --> 01:12:27.081 -[sobbing] 1397 01:12:27.212 --> 01:12:30.258 -There's lotsa love here. I'm seeing love. 1398 01:12:30.389 --> 01:12:32.696 FRANCO: People we had interviewed through the magazine 1399 01:12:32.826 --> 01:12:35.786 found out, and they wanted to come and fly themselves 1400 01:12:35.916 --> 01:12:38.832 to San Francisco and be part of this event. 1401 01:12:38.919 --> 01:12:41.139 People wanted to donate stuff for a silent auction 1402 01:12:41.269 --> 01:12:44.447 and a live auction, and lesbian celebrities even auctioned off 1403 01:12:44.534 --> 01:12:45.752 dates with themselves. 1404 01:12:45.883 --> 01:12:47.319 I remember Lea DeLaria. 1405 01:12:47.406 --> 01:12:50.931 What was happening to the magazine was fucking bullshit. 1406 01:12:51.018 --> 01:12:53.194 And I wanted to help. 1407 01:12:53.325 --> 01:12:56.154 We got $800 over here. We're looking for $850. 1408 01:12:56.284 --> 01:12:58.852 We're looking for $850. We got $850 on the line! 1409 01:12:58.939 --> 01:13:00.201 [cheering] 1410 01:13:00.332 --> 01:13:01.594 I wish I could say it's the first time 1411 01:13:01.681 --> 01:13:04.031 I've auctioned myself off for a date! 1412 01:13:04.162 --> 01:13:06.382 KATIE: So many people came out to support us. 1413 01:13:06.469 --> 01:13:08.862 -It was like a Who's Who of lesbian comedians, 1414 01:13:08.949 --> 01:13:11.474 lesbian music, lesbian authors. 1415 01:13:11.604 --> 01:13:13.301 -She'll read to you in a limo, okay? 1416 01:13:17.393 --> 01:13:19.917 PAGE: It was packed, completely packed. 1417 01:13:20.047 --> 01:13:22.049 There was so much power in the room. 1418 01:13:22.180 --> 01:13:23.442 It was mecca. 1419 01:13:24.878 --> 01:13:28.273 [energetic, pulsing dance music] 1420 01:13:51.427 --> 01:13:54.386 FRANCO: I had never seen the lesbian community come together 1421 01:13:54.517 --> 01:13:56.301 as a whole for something that wasn't 1422 01:13:56.432 --> 01:13:58.999 strictly a political movement. 1423 01:14:02.655 --> 01:14:05.179 I mean, maybe coming together to save the magazine 1424 01:14:05.310 --> 01:14:07.878 was a political action. 1425 01:14:08.966 --> 01:14:10.402 DEB: And it was just by the love of the community 1426 01:14:10.533 --> 01:14:12.143 and the contributions of the people that performed 1427 01:14:12.273 --> 01:14:14.537 that allowed us to keep going. 1428 01:14:14.667 --> 01:14:17.191 FRANCO: And now I'm overwhelmed by the support you're giving me 1429 01:14:17.322 --> 01:14:18.802 and the support you're giving the magazine. 1430 01:14:18.932 --> 01:14:21.239 And thank you so, so much. 1431 01:14:21.369 --> 01:14:24.329 [cheers, applause] 1432 01:14:27.463 --> 01:14:30.640 We got to a point where we were either like, all right, 1433 01:14:30.727 --> 01:14:35.383 change the name and live to publish another day. 1434 01:14:35.514 --> 01:14:38.735 Or be stubborn, keep the name, and go under 1435 01:14:38.822 --> 01:14:40.911 from just the legal fees alone. 1436 01:14:41.041 --> 01:14:46.438 And we were able to settle, and the settlement required us 1437 01:14:46.569 --> 01:14:47.787 to change our name. 1438 01:14:47.918 --> 01:14:51.051 One day, Franco came and she says, "I got it." 1439 01:14:51.138 --> 01:14:52.966 And she had been sitting on a bench somewhere 1440 01:14:53.097 --> 01:14:55.229 looking out at a view. 1441 01:14:55.316 --> 01:14:59.190 And she noticed that the hills were curvaceous, 1442 01:14:59.277 --> 01:15:00.713 and she thought "Curve." 1443 01:15:01.932 --> 01:15:03.020 "Curve." 1444 01:15:03.150 --> 01:15:04.935 We were like what?! We loved it. 1445 01:15:05.065 --> 01:15:06.327 VICKI: That's a great name! 1446 01:15:06.719 --> 01:15:08.765 We've changed the name starting 1447 01:15:08.895 --> 01:15:13.073 with the January '96 Martina Navratilova cover. 1448 01:15:13.204 --> 01:15:16.381 The same magazine, the same product with just a new name. 1449 01:15:16.512 --> 01:15:18.122 "Curve" isn't straight. 1450 01:15:18.252 --> 01:15:21.995 It's bent, it's gay, it's... 1451 01:15:22.126 --> 01:15:24.215 the curves of a woman's body, it's beautiful. 1452 01:15:24.302 --> 01:15:25.216 It's a much better name. 1453 01:15:25.346 --> 01:15:26.652 People can pronounce it! 1454 01:15:26.783 --> 01:15:27.784 -Thanks, "Curve." 1455 01:15:29.350 --> 01:15:32.223 [pensive music] 1456 01:15:35.531 --> 01:15:37.794 [music slowly fades out] 1457 01:15:40.013 --> 01:15:42.712 [birds singing, distant traffic] 1458 01:15:43.887 --> 01:15:45.628 [hooves against the dirt track] 1459 01:15:53.200 --> 01:15:55.725 FRANCO: Every month, we'd get in these boxes. 1460 01:15:55.855 --> 01:15:59.337 Each box weighed 33 to 35 pounds. 1461 01:15:59.467 --> 01:16:01.078 Magazines, like a little box like this. 1462 01:16:01.208 --> 01:16:02.993 But they were heavy. 1463 01:16:03.080 --> 01:16:05.691 So, I would pile two or three boxes up, 1464 01:16:05.822 --> 01:16:07.171 and I would just carry them to the back. 1465 01:16:07.258 --> 01:16:10.435 We'd get done twice or three times as fast! 1466 01:16:11.784 --> 01:16:19.749 And I would cut through the kitchen, and we had this carpet. 1467 01:16:19.879 --> 01:16:24.014 And I must've just hit the carpet wrong because.... 1468 01:16:24.144 --> 01:16:25.842 I hit the carpet wrong, and I just remember 1469 01:16:25.972 --> 01:16:30.716 that feeling of like...you know. 1470 01:16:30.803 --> 01:16:33.023 The next thing I knew I was just in a lot of pain, 1471 01:16:34.590 --> 01:16:37.680 and I was on my way to the hospital. 1472 01:16:39.943 --> 01:16:43.033 [pensive music] 1473 01:16:44.077 --> 01:16:45.601 LAURA: When I walked into the hospital room, 1474 01:16:45.731 --> 01:16:47.994 I was like, what happened? 1475 01:16:48.125 --> 01:16:51.868 I mean, dropping boxes on her feet, they dropped and literally 1476 01:16:51.998 --> 01:16:54.914 crushed the bones in her feet, the tendons in her feet. 1477 01:16:55.045 --> 01:16:57.177 And the doctors were like, oh, it'll heal. 1478 01:16:57.308 --> 01:17:00.006 It's just, it's like a broken foot. You'll be fine. 1479 01:17:00.093 --> 01:17:02.269 I don't think that I or any of her friends really 1480 01:17:02.400 --> 01:17:06.012 at the time knew how much pain she really was in. 1481 01:17:06.143 --> 01:17:08.493 I think we all thought an accident happened, 1482 01:17:08.624 --> 01:17:12.497 no problem, it'll heal. And she'll be back. 1483 01:17:13.890 --> 01:17:16.936 Week after week of doing that, it clearly was, we were starting 1484 01:17:17.067 --> 01:17:20.200 to realize that something was not, it was not fine. 1485 01:17:22.463 --> 01:17:24.988 The pain wasn't decreasing at all. 1486 01:17:25.118 --> 01:17:26.816 She's going to multiple doctors. 1487 01:17:26.946 --> 01:17:30.384 Now she's having multiple surgeries. 1488 01:17:30.515 --> 01:17:34.084 Every time I seem like I had surgery, 1489 01:17:34.171 --> 01:17:36.129 instead of getting better, 1490 01:17:36.260 --> 01:17:38.610 my feet would just get more and more sensitive 1491 01:17:38.741 --> 01:17:42.701 to the point where I could not wear shoes and socks. 1492 01:17:42.832 --> 01:17:45.965 I couldn't have the covers touching my feet. 1493 01:17:46.096 --> 01:17:49.447 I couldn't even put my feet in running water. 1494 01:17:50.535 --> 01:17:52.232 -What did it feel like? 1495 01:17:52.363 --> 01:17:54.191 -Like knives or like being burnt. 1496 01:17:55.888 --> 01:17:58.151 She hid a lot of her pain. 1497 01:17:58.282 --> 01:18:01.851 She hid, I think, a lot of how it was affecting her. 1498 01:18:01.981 --> 01:18:03.635 Because she wanted to portray 1499 01:18:03.766 --> 01:18:07.378 the person that everyone saw her as: 1500 01:18:07.508 --> 01:18:11.643 this very strong, invincible person that could do anything. 1501 01:18:18.737 --> 01:18:22.436 Finally, she realized, I have to change how I'm living my life. 1502 01:18:23.394 --> 01:18:26.876 And it started to dawn on her that she was probably 1503 01:18:27.006 --> 01:18:29.008 not gonna be able to continue to run the magazine. 1504 01:18:35.928 --> 01:18:38.714 FRANCO: This is what it's like. Give me your hand. 1505 01:18:38.844 --> 01:18:40.803 JEN: Uuuuuh.... No. 1506 01:18:40.933 --> 01:18:42.718 FRANCO: Give me your hand. This is what it's like. 1507 01:18:42.805 --> 01:18:44.415 I'm sitting here. 1508 01:18:44.545 --> 01:18:47.287 I'm in a meeting, and this is what's happening with my foot. 1509 01:18:47.374 --> 01:18:49.550 Talk to me. Talk to me. 1510 01:18:49.681 --> 01:18:52.771 You might get stabbed at any time by this sharp object. 1511 01:18:56.514 --> 01:19:00.823 You know, this is why I didn't continue to do the magazine. 1512 01:19:00.953 --> 01:19:03.173 This is why I had to turn it over. 1513 01:19:03.303 --> 01:19:06.089 It's like, I can't sit here and be completely present 1514 01:19:06.176 --> 01:19:08.918 because of the pain. 1515 01:19:09.048 --> 01:19:11.834 And not only like the physical pain, but this anx-, 1516 01:19:11.964 --> 01:19:17.404 this pain of like, okay, concentrate now. 1517 01:19:17.491 --> 01:19:21.887 You never know when this is gonna come down and stab you. 1518 01:19:21.974 --> 01:19:23.671 And it's very exhausting. 1519 01:19:30.461 --> 01:19:32.637 People had wanted to buy the magazine for a long time, 1520 01:19:32.768 --> 01:19:34.421 but I was not ready. 1521 01:19:44.518 --> 01:19:48.392 I wanted to sell it to somebody who really was in it 1522 01:19:48.522 --> 01:19:51.003 for the right reasons, and that was her. 1523 01:19:51.134 --> 01:19:52.962 -Yeah. -So. 1524 01:19:56.661 --> 01:19:58.619 No regrets. 1525 01:19:58.706 --> 01:20:02.667 I felt like my work needed to be carried on by other people. 1526 01:20:05.365 --> 01:20:06.845 -It's Merryn. How are you? 1527 01:20:09.108 --> 01:20:12.416 Franco did a very brave thing when she put the word "lesbian" 1528 01:20:12.503 --> 01:20:14.984 on the cover of "Curve" magazine. 1529 01:20:15.114 --> 01:20:17.987 And to just get that on the front of a magazine 1530 01:20:18.074 --> 01:20:19.858 was a victory. 1531 01:20:19.989 --> 01:20:24.297 To have many requests from readers asking me to take that 1532 01:20:24.428 --> 01:20:28.127 word off, because they felt it was excluding or erasing them 1533 01:20:28.258 --> 01:20:31.609 seemed to me like we were going back in history. 1534 01:20:31.696 --> 01:20:35.613 I think it's necessary for individuals to use the words 1535 01:20:35.700 --> 01:20:40.487 that they, themselves, identify with, without fear of reprisal 1536 01:20:40.618 --> 01:20:43.273 or without fear of being accused of erasing somebody 1537 01:20:43.403 --> 01:20:45.797 with a different identity to them. 1538 01:20:45.884 --> 01:20:49.366 In the end, I and my publisher, Silke Bader, 1539 01:20:49.496 --> 01:20:52.108 decided to remove the word. 1540 01:20:52.238 --> 01:20:54.675 For better or worse, it is now gone. 1541 01:20:54.806 --> 01:20:57.635 The magazine has a much broader aesthetic now. 1542 01:20:57.765 --> 01:21:00.594 It can be whatever you want it to be for you. 1543 01:21:10.474 --> 01:21:11.823 -Yeah, there it is! 1544 01:21:12.780 --> 01:21:15.392 So, it definitely looks a lot different today 1545 01:21:15.479 --> 01:21:17.481 than it did back then. 1546 01:21:17.611 --> 01:21:20.266 -It kinda looks like a "Vogue"-type magazine, 1547 01:21:20.397 --> 01:21:21.528 like high fashion. 1548 01:21:21.659 --> 01:21:23.791 -Yeah, it would be. 1549 01:21:23.879 --> 01:21:28.013 I just don't know how you would know that that's 1550 01:21:28.144 --> 01:21:29.797 a lesbian magazine from the front cover. 1551 01:21:32.452 --> 01:21:34.193 -Gay media used to be a very big deal: 1552 01:21:34.280 --> 01:21:36.108 "The Advocate," "Curve," all the others. 1553 01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:38.110 And now that's been mainstreamed. 1554 01:21:38.241 --> 01:21:40.243 There's so much gay material in mainstream media, 1555 01:21:40.373 --> 01:21:41.809 which is sort of the success, right? 1556 01:21:41.940 --> 01:21:43.333 That it's there, so you don't need 1557 01:21:43.463 --> 01:21:45.422 these separate publications. 1558 01:21:45.552 --> 01:21:47.859 And so, it's happened not just with gay magazines, 1559 01:21:47.990 --> 01:21:50.340 but you know, African-American magazines. 1560 01:21:50.470 --> 01:21:51.907 Now things have been mainstreamed. 1561 01:21:51.994 --> 01:21:54.779 And so, that's a good thing and a bad thing. 1562 01:21:54.910 --> 01:21:57.782 That's a success, and it's also a loss at the same time. 1563 01:22:08.053 --> 01:22:10.229 FRANCO: We're trying to figure out is a lesbian magazine 1564 01:22:10.360 --> 01:22:12.188 still needed today? 1565 01:22:12.318 --> 01:22:16.714 I mean the mission was really to foster lesbian visibility within 1566 01:22:16.844 --> 01:22:20.152 our community and also externally from the outside in. 1567 01:22:20.283 --> 01:22:22.111 And is the mission still relevant? 1568 01:22:22.241 --> 01:22:23.677 -It's still really relevant and very important. 1569 01:22:23.808 --> 01:22:25.331 Yeah. 1570 01:22:25.462 --> 01:22:27.594 -We still need a reminder of the history of our movement 1571 01:22:27.681 --> 01:22:30.119 and also a beat on what's happening. 1572 01:22:30.815 --> 01:22:32.556 FRANCO: But does it need to be a physical print magazine? 1573 01:22:32.686 --> 01:22:34.471 EMILY: No, I don't think so. -Do you read magazines? 1574 01:22:34.558 --> 01:22:35.472 -No, I don't. -Do you read magazines? 1575 01:22:35.559 --> 01:22:36.516 -No. -[laughs] 1576 01:22:36.603 --> 01:22:38.779 -Magazines? Magazines? 1577 01:22:38.910 --> 01:22:40.956 I think there's different ways to tell stories than just 1578 01:22:41.086 --> 01:22:42.435 actually writing them out. 1579 01:22:42.566 --> 01:22:44.002 -There's this huge misconception that 1580 01:22:44.133 --> 01:22:45.221 because we have marriage equality, 1581 01:22:45.351 --> 01:22:46.657 we must have employment protections. 1582 01:22:46.787 --> 01:22:48.311 We must have housing protections. 1583 01:22:48.441 --> 01:22:50.617 We must have public accommodation discrimination 1584 01:22:50.748 --> 01:22:53.794 protections, and we don't on a national level. 1585 01:22:53.925 --> 01:22:56.188 So, we get calls every day from people whose children are being 1586 01:22:56.319 --> 01:22:58.321 taken away from them by the courts because the judge is 1587 01:22:58.451 --> 01:23:00.497 homophobic or transphobic. 1588 01:23:00.627 --> 01:23:02.586 We get calls every day by people who are denied 1589 01:23:02.716 --> 01:23:05.154 basic medical care because of their identity. 1590 01:23:05.284 --> 01:23:06.459 -People are really scared. 1591 01:23:06.590 --> 01:23:08.853 People are really scared of what's coming next. 1592 01:23:08.940 --> 01:23:12.465 And it's not safe to be queer right now. 1593 01:23:12.596 --> 01:23:13.684 It just isn't. 1594 01:23:14.337 --> 01:23:15.773 MARCHERS: What do we want? Gay rights! 1595 01:23:15.860 --> 01:23:18.210 When do we want them? Now! 1596 01:23:18.297 --> 01:23:21.387 -We've been fighting for equality. 1597 01:23:22.606 --> 01:23:27.567 We've been fighting to not get beat up or to have our job 1598 01:23:27.698 --> 01:23:30.744 taken away because of who we love: very, very sort of basic. 1599 01:23:33.051 --> 01:23:36.663 And in that fight, we became more visible. 1600 01:23:36.794 --> 01:23:40.276 As we became more visible, we also became a target. 1601 01:23:40.841 --> 01:23:42.017 -You know, you're obviously 1602 01:23:42.147 --> 01:23:43.888 a strong advocate for lesbian rights, 1603 01:23:44.019 --> 01:23:45.498 and you've mentioned that you'd someday like 1604 01:23:45.585 --> 01:23:47.196 to have a child or children. 1605 01:23:47.326 --> 01:23:49.589 How would you raise the child? Could you be neutral? 1606 01:23:49.720 --> 01:23:51.678 FRANCO: I'd raise a child as a child should be raised, 1607 01:23:51.809 --> 01:23:53.115 in a loving family. 1608 01:23:53.245 --> 01:23:56.814 -I wonder if you can give the child options. 1609 01:23:56.944 --> 01:23:57.945 GERALDO: What she's saying is - 1610 01:23:58.076 --> 01:23:59.034 and we're skirting around it - 1611 01:23:59.164 --> 01:24:00.992 she's saying that you're gonna propagandize 1612 01:24:01.123 --> 01:24:03.864 and brainwash the child into being gay like you. 1613 01:24:03.995 --> 01:24:06.215 -I mean, shouldn't the kid have a right to a father? 1614 01:24:06.302 --> 01:24:09.131 What are you gonna tell the kid when he asks, "Where's Daddy?" 1615 01:24:09.218 --> 01:24:11.350 "Oh, he's the one with the breasts." I mean, come on. 1616 01:24:11.481 --> 01:24:13.831 KATIE: I looked forward to the day that a magazine like ours 1617 01:24:13.961 --> 01:24:16.225 wouldn't be necessary because we wouldn't 1618 01:24:16.355 --> 01:24:19.358 be discriminated against. We wouldn't be isolated. 1619 01:24:19.445 --> 01:24:22.535 We would see ourselves reflected everywhere. 1620 01:24:23.449 --> 01:24:26.670 And to some extent, we've made huge strides. 1621 01:24:26.800 --> 01:24:29.412 I feel like in the last couple of years, 1622 01:24:29.542 --> 01:24:31.196 we've started to go backwards, 1623 01:24:31.327 --> 01:24:33.024 and things that we took for granted 1624 01:24:33.111 --> 01:24:35.461 are now in question again. 1625 01:24:36.201 --> 01:24:38.551 DEB: What's at risk right now for the gay community is a 1626 01:24:38.682 --> 01:24:42.686 throwback to discrimination and being seen as "other." 1627 01:24:42.773 --> 01:24:44.514 And I think it's really important 1628 01:24:44.644 --> 01:24:47.995 to not let up for a minute. 1629 01:24:48.126 --> 01:24:50.781 The old line, people who don't know their history are doomed to 1630 01:24:50.911 --> 01:24:55.133 repeat it, what everybody fought so hard for could be lost. 1631 01:24:55.264 --> 01:25:00.921 -There's a sense that because gay marriage is no longer 1632 01:25:01.052 --> 01:25:04.969 an impossibility, people have an illusion of safety. 1633 01:25:05.883 --> 01:25:10.148 How safe any of us are... I don't know. 1634 01:25:11.845 --> 01:25:13.978 [suspenseful music] 1635 01:25:14.109 --> 01:25:17.199 There is growing concern in this country, and fear, 1636 01:25:17.329 --> 01:25:20.332 about deadly attacks against transgender Americans, 1637 01:25:20.463 --> 01:25:22.943 particularly trans women of color. 1638 01:25:23.030 --> 01:25:25.946 More than 100 anti-LGBT bills have been 1639 01:25:26.077 --> 01:25:28.384 introduced in 29 states. 1640 01:25:28.514 --> 01:25:31.691 The U.S. Supreme Court sided today with a Colorado baker 1641 01:25:31.822 --> 01:25:34.520 who refused, on religious grounds, to make a wedding cake 1642 01:25:34.651 --> 01:25:36.174 for a same-sex couple. 1643 01:25:36.305 --> 01:25:38.568 REPORTER: Georgia became the first U.S. state to pass 1644 01:25:38.698 --> 01:25:41.527 a so-called religious freedom bill, allowing businesses and 1645 01:25:41.658 --> 01:25:44.791 organizations to withhold services from gays and lesbians. 1646 01:25:44.922 --> 01:25:46.663 Mississippi passed its own version. 1647 01:25:46.750 --> 01:25:48.882 Critics say it's the harshest yet. 1648 01:25:49.013 --> 01:25:51.189 -When it comes to marriage, obviously the Supreme Court 1649 01:25:51.320 --> 01:25:53.844 handed us a huge victory in 2015 recognizing the freedom 1650 01:25:53.974 --> 01:25:55.976 to marry for same-sex couples. 1651 01:25:56.107 --> 01:25:58.892 But in another sense, we're subject to a patchwork 1652 01:25:59.023 --> 01:26:02.200 of state protections: Only 28 states expressly protecting 1653 01:26:02.331 --> 01:26:04.420 people who are LGBT from being fired 1654 01:26:04.550 --> 01:26:06.770 or turned away from housing or public places 1655 01:26:06.900 --> 01:26:08.424 simply because of who they are. 1656 01:26:08.554 --> 01:26:09.860 All of a sudden, the rights that 1657 01:26:09.947 --> 01:26:12.863 we didn't even realize we had are gone. 1658 01:26:12.993 --> 01:26:15.431 Like little things that protected us in our jobs 1659 01:26:15.561 --> 01:26:17.520 in different cities and stuff like that, they've all been 1660 01:26:17.650 --> 01:26:19.261 just like picked, picked, picked away. 1661 01:26:19.391 --> 01:26:21.915 The Trump administration has told the Supreme Court that 1662 01:26:22.046 --> 01:26:24.179 employers should be free to fire people simply because 1663 01:26:24.309 --> 01:26:26.877 they're gay or transgender. 1664 01:26:27.007 --> 01:26:29.271 Similarly, the administration has told transgender troops 1665 01:26:29.358 --> 01:26:31.055 they're not welcome to serve in our military 1666 01:26:31.186 --> 01:26:32.665 unless they hide who they are. 1667 01:26:32.796 --> 01:26:34.493 The new regulation keeps transgender troops 1668 01:26:34.624 --> 01:26:35.799 from serving openly. 1669 01:26:35.929 --> 01:26:37.627 It also blocks troops from receiving care 1670 01:26:37.757 --> 01:26:40.151 if they transition to another gender. 1671 01:26:40.282 --> 01:26:41.457 -...the fact that we're being erased by 1672 01:26:41.587 --> 01:26:43.807 this current administration from the websites. 1673 01:26:43.937 --> 01:26:46.288 We're being erased from the census bureau. 1674 01:26:46.418 --> 01:26:48.290 -You know, if we're not counted, we're not visible. 1675 01:26:48.986 --> 01:26:51.728 All of these moves are efforts to push LGBTQ people 1676 01:26:51.858 --> 01:26:54.644 out of public life, to push us back 1677 01:26:54.774 --> 01:26:56.950 to where they think we belong, and to roll back 1678 01:26:57.081 --> 01:26:59.562 civil rights protections we've enjoyed for decades now. 1679 01:27:02.304 --> 01:27:04.958 [uplifting music, flags waving in the wind] 1680 01:27:05.089 --> 01:27:07.744 FRANCO: I thought that once we achieved marriage equality, 1681 01:27:07.874 --> 01:27:10.137 that we would have equal rights across the board. 1682 01:27:10.268 --> 01:27:15.404 Instead of now, we're doing this slide down the hill, of yes, 1683 01:27:15.534 --> 01:27:18.581 we got that right, but we're really under attack now. 1684 01:27:18.711 --> 01:27:21.018 Conservative forces are trying to dehumanize us 1685 01:27:21.148 --> 01:27:22.454 every single day. 1686 01:27:22.585 --> 01:27:24.239 When I think of "Curve," I think again, 1687 01:27:24.369 --> 01:27:27.677 it's this power of a space that's ours, right? 1688 01:27:27.764 --> 01:27:29.635 And the space doesn't have to be just publication. 1689 01:27:29.766 --> 01:27:30.854 I mean, it's creating that space, 1690 01:27:30.984 --> 01:27:32.203 it's fighting for that space, 1691 01:27:32.334 --> 01:27:34.466 and also letting younger folks know that 1692 01:27:34.597 --> 01:27:36.903 there is that space, when they're ready. 1693 01:27:37.034 --> 01:27:39.297 And that we're ready to support them. 1694 01:27:39.428 --> 01:27:42.169 -You know, that's always been the mission at "Curve." 1695 01:27:46.696 --> 01:27:47.871 [knocking] 1696 01:27:48.001 --> 01:27:48.872 FRANCO: Come in! [dog barks] 1697 01:27:49.002 --> 01:27:50.917 LAURA: Hey, Frank! 1698 01:27:51.048 --> 01:27:55.139 What you started was, at the time, and granted you were 1699 01:27:55.270 --> 01:27:58.098 on the shoulders of other lesbians - 1700 01:27:58.185 --> 01:27:59.404 and women before you. -The greats, yes. 1701 01:27:59.535 --> 01:28:00.971 For sure. 1702 01:28:01.101 --> 01:28:03.103 I didn't start the movement. That's for darn sure! 1703 01:28:03.190 --> 01:28:04.757 -Right, right, right. No, of course not. 1704 01:28:04.844 --> 01:28:07.891 But you created a foundation to fight for equality. 1705 01:28:08.021 --> 01:28:10.720 You created a foundation for dialogue and creating 1706 01:28:10.850 --> 01:28:13.853 conversations and content that nobody was creating. 1707 01:28:13.984 --> 01:28:16.029 -I think it's really interesting that you keep 1708 01:28:16.116 --> 01:28:17.770 using this word "foundation." 1709 01:28:17.857 --> 01:28:23.559 Because maybe "Curve" could be a foundation going forward: 1710 01:28:23.689 --> 01:28:28.564 a foundation to foster women's voices, and give money 1711 01:28:28.694 --> 01:28:31.088 to projects that women are doing. 1712 01:28:32.176 --> 01:28:35.701 You know, from going around North America, really, and 1713 01:28:35.832 --> 01:28:39.966 speaking to younger activists, they all said the same thing: 1714 01:28:40.097 --> 01:28:43.535 that our voices need to be heard. 1715 01:28:44.884 --> 01:28:48.671 Meeting them was very powerful. 1716 01:28:48.801 --> 01:28:54.416 They really are true advocates for our community. 1717 01:28:54.546 --> 01:28:57.070 Maybe a print magazine isn't needed anymore. 1718 01:28:57.201 --> 01:28:58.158 Maybe I've fulfilled that mission. 1719 01:28:58.289 --> 01:28:59.595 -Yeah. 1720 01:28:59.725 --> 01:29:04.556 -But giving a voice to the LGBT community, 1721 01:29:04.687 --> 01:29:07.472 that vision is not accomplished. 1722 01:29:07.603 --> 01:29:10.649 Having equal rights is not accomplished. 1723 01:29:10.780 --> 01:29:14.697 -Are you ready to let the print magazine go? 1724 01:29:16.699 --> 01:29:18.701 -[heavy sigh] 1725 01:29:19.963 --> 01:29:22.444 If the community's saying they don't need that anymore, 1726 01:29:22.574 --> 01:29:25.098 I have to come to grips with it. 1727 01:29:27.362 --> 01:29:31.061 It's gonna be one of those hard days in my life for sure, 1728 01:29:31.191 --> 01:29:34.369 when the last print edition of "Curve" comes out. 1729 01:29:36.893 --> 01:29:40.070 I don't feel like without a magazine, 1730 01:29:40.157 --> 01:29:42.768 there's no me, you know? 1731 01:29:42.855 --> 01:29:47.164 I feel like I have... 1732 01:29:47.251 --> 01:29:48.992 you know, I have made a difference. 1733 01:29:55.781 --> 01:30:00.220 Running a magazine, you... 1734 01:30:00.351 --> 01:30:04.660 learn that the impossible things can become possible. 1735 01:30:07.010 --> 01:30:08.925 [mellow music] 1736 01:30:09.055 --> 01:30:11.275 DENICE: It's so incredibly important for us to be connected 1737 01:30:11.406 --> 01:30:14.104 to our lineage, to those who came before us. 1738 01:30:15.322 --> 01:30:17.847 I often think about those who walk through a door and cracked 1739 01:30:17.934 --> 01:30:21.677 it open wider, so that we could walk through it after them. 1740 01:30:22.939 --> 01:30:26.029 There's still a lot of work to do to fight homophobia, 1741 01:30:26.159 --> 01:30:29.989 to fight transphobia, to fight gender violence. 1742 01:30:30.120 --> 01:30:34.646 So, when I hear young people say, "I feel less alone because 1743 01:30:34.777 --> 01:30:38.694 I listen to your poems every night," or, "I wrote my own poem 1744 01:30:38.824 --> 01:30:42.045 because of your poem," I feel like maybe 1745 01:30:42.175 --> 01:30:43.438 I'm doing a little bit of good in the world. 1746 01:30:45.091 --> 01:30:48.530 KIM: Fifty years ago, I could not exist! 1747 01:30:48.617 --> 01:30:50.967 I could not have this family. I could not have this life. 1748 01:30:51.054 --> 01:30:54.361 I could not do the things that I do or say the things that I say. 1749 01:30:54.492 --> 01:30:56.799 And there are so many people who have made it possible 1750 01:30:56.886 --> 01:30:58.801 for this moment in time. 1751 01:30:58.931 --> 01:31:01.107 I feel like, "thank you!" 1752 01:31:01.238 --> 01:31:04.284 And so, I have work to do with this, because this space 1753 01:31:04.371 --> 01:31:06.199 is constantly under threat. 1754 01:31:07.157 --> 01:31:12.162 Ideally, visibility looks like us being able to be the authors 1755 01:31:12.292 --> 01:31:17.036 of our own experience and to be able to tell our own stories. 1756 01:31:17.123 --> 01:31:20.823 I mean, I'm committed to making sure that generations 1757 01:31:20.910 --> 01:31:24.174 in the future see more visibility, more freedom 1758 01:31:24.304 --> 01:31:26.785 than what we have access to now. 1759 01:31:28.047 --> 01:31:30.397 ANDREA: The reality is that our movement still needs mentorship. 1760 01:31:30.485 --> 01:31:33.792 And I see myself as a person who can be that for other people 1761 01:31:33.923 --> 01:31:35.794 by living authentically, by telling my story, 1762 01:31:35.925 --> 01:31:38.057 by being all of who I am. 1763 01:31:39.363 --> 01:31:41.887 When there is so much at stake right now, our positive stories 1764 01:31:42.018 --> 01:31:44.586 are some of the most powerful tools that we have. 1765 01:31:44.716 --> 01:31:46.979 I want folks to pay attention rather than to just think 1766 01:31:47.110 --> 01:31:49.591 that this is something that we can't correct. 1767 01:31:49.721 --> 01:31:53.116 Now is the time to go to that 8:00 AM march on a Saturday, 1768 01:31:53.246 --> 01:31:56.206 to vote in every single election, to run for office 1769 01:31:56.336 --> 01:32:00.036 if you feel like you can, to speak up, to share your story. 1770 01:32:00.123 --> 01:32:02.168 This is what makes our visibility so powerful. 1771 01:32:03.996 --> 01:32:05.955 [upbeat music in the parade, happily cheering crowds] 1772 01:32:06.085 --> 01:32:09.436 [dance music: "Everybody Everybody" by Black Box] 1773 01:32:30.283 --> 01:32:33.896 ♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh 1774 01:32:34.026 --> 01:32:38.509 ♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh 1775 01:32:41.207 --> 01:32:44.515 [dance music continues] 1776 01:32:55.004 --> 01:32:58.921 ♪ You won't belong to me I let you down 1777 01:32:59.051 --> 01:33:03.055 ♪ I walk around and see your night skyline 1778 01:33:03.186 --> 01:33:07.016 ♪ I feel the light but you don't want to stay 1779 01:33:07.146 --> 01:33:09.888 ♪ So lonely now, just let me off downtown 1780 01:33:10.019 --> 01:33:18.201 ♪ Set it free, set it free 1781 01:33:18.288 --> 01:33:24.990 ♪ Set it free, set it free.... 1782 01:33:25.121 --> 01:33:26.339 FRANCO: I feel lucky. 1783 01:33:27.558 --> 01:33:29.429 Most people can spend a lifetime 1784 01:33:29.560 --> 01:33:31.867 and still never know why they were put here on earth. 1785 01:33:33.259 --> 01:33:34.609 I was here to create the magazine. 1786 01:33:37.002 --> 01:33:38.700 Every time we put out a magazine, it felt 1787 01:33:38.830 --> 01:33:42.355 groundbreaking, like the work was so important. 1788 01:33:43.269 --> 01:33:45.620 And the work is not done. 1789 01:33:48.057 --> 01:33:49.406 I feel hopeful. 1790 01:33:50.668 --> 01:33:52.888 I'm really excited to see what the next generation of activists 1791 01:33:53.018 --> 01:33:55.064 do and how they use make the changes that need to happen. 1792 01:33:56.500 --> 01:33:57.849 Maybe I helped lay the foundation 1793 01:33:57.980 --> 01:33:59.808 for what will come next. 1794 01:34:01.461 --> 01:34:03.768 Now, that would be my legacy. 1795 01:34:03.899 --> 01:34:07.772 ♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh 1796 01:34:16.433 --> 01:34:20.132 ♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh 1797 01:34:20.263 --> 01:34:24.310 ♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh 1798 01:34:28.793 --> 01:34:32.101 ♪ Everybody, everybody Everybody, everybody 1799 01:34:32.231 --> 01:34:39.064 ♪ Oh, everybody! Everybody! Everybody! 1800 01:34:39.195 --> 01:34:40.631 ♪ Everybody, everybody Everybody, everybody 1801 01:34:40.762 --> 01:34:42.851 ♪ Oh, everybody Everybody, everybody 1802 01:34:43.025 --> 01:34:44.635 ♪ Everybody, everybody ♪ 1803 01:34:46.768 --> 01:34:50.119 [upbeat music]