1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:06,715 --> 00:00:11,386 dissonant music 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:11,428 --> 00:00:13,388 [Michael Laufer] He was a very 5 00:00:13,430 --> 00:00:15,390 controversial figure, in a lot of ways. 6 00:00:15,432 --> 00:00:20,395 [water dripping] 7 00:00:20,437 --> 00:00:22,397 [Michael Henderson] I remember he told me that 8 00:00:22,439 --> 00:00:24,149 he didn't like aging, 9 00:00:25,108 --> 00:00:27,569 that the saddest day of his life 10 00:00:27,610 --> 00:00:29,487 would be to see his father die. 11 00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:33,074 And so he's going to do everything in his power 12 00:00:33,116 --> 00:00:35,368 to help extend human life. 13 00:00:39,456 --> 00:00:41,750 [Josiah Zayner] Every single major figure 14 00:00:41,791 --> 00:00:44,419 in the biohacking world was working with Aaron, 15 00:00:44,461 --> 00:00:46,838 because he paid them some money. 16 00:00:49,466 --> 00:00:52,927 [Alex Pearlman] This was a bad actor within the community 17 00:00:52,969 --> 00:00:58,391 who performed bad science in a terrible way. 18 00:01:00,810 --> 00:01:02,771 [Rita Traywick] He wanted to help people. 19 00:01:02,812 --> 00:01:05,190 He was very, very smart. 20 00:01:07,484 --> 00:01:09,819 [Man] I think he was trying to change the world. 21 00:01:11,488 --> 00:01:13,490 [Gabriel Licina] He was a snake oil salesman. 22 00:01:15,825 --> 00:01:18,620 [Greg Neimeyer] He clearly had many of the features 23 00:01:18,661 --> 00:01:19,996 of psychopathy. 24 00:01:21,831 --> 00:01:25,293 [Mac Davis] I never actually saw Aaron do anything 25 00:01:25,335 --> 00:01:30,173 that was legitimately unethical or dangerous. 26 00:01:32,050 --> 00:01:34,552 [Josiah Zayner] There's all these conspiracy theories. 27 00:01:36,846 --> 00:01:38,473 [Tristan Roberts] The more digging you do, 28 00:01:38,515 --> 00:01:39,808 the more you realize that 29 00:01:39,849 --> 00:01:43,436 a lot of people had motive behind it. 30 00:01:45,522 --> 00:01:47,148 [Edwina Rogers] I'm not sad that Aaron 31 00:01:47,190 --> 00:01:48,650 is no longer with us. 32 00:01:48,691 --> 00:01:50,485 It was a matter of time 33 00:01:50,527 --> 00:01:53,154 that he was going to kill somebody. 34 00:02:12,549 --> 00:02:13,675 [Reporter] Aaron Traywick, 35 00:02:13,716 --> 00:02:15,343 the CEO of the biohacking company 36 00:02:15,385 --> 00:02:16,845 Ascendance Biomedical, 37 00:02:16,886 --> 00:02:18,346 was found dead Sunday 38 00:02:18,388 --> 00:02:20,515 floating in a sensory deprivation tank 39 00:02:20,557 --> 00:02:22,725 in a meditation spa in Washington, D.C. 40 00:02:24,060 --> 00:02:26,521 Reporter: He was what is a called a biohacker, 41 00:02:26,563 --> 00:02:28,523 and a controversial one. 42 00:02:28,565 --> 00:02:32,193 He claimed his drugs could cure HIV, AIDS, and Herpes. 43 00:02:32,235 --> 00:02:33,570 He was 28 years old. 44 00:02:35,572 --> 00:02:40,535 [typing] 45 00:02:40,577 --> 00:02:44,372 [typing] 46 00:02:48,126 --> 00:02:50,211 [Josiah Zayner] Aaron, his number one fault 47 00:02:50,253 --> 00:02:52,547 was he used the C-word really often, 48 00:02:52,589 --> 00:02:54,883 and the-C word is, he called things cures. 49 00:02:54,924 --> 00:02:57,552 "This is a cure. That's a cure." 50 00:02:57,594 --> 00:02:59,179 If he never would have said those words, 51 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:02,056 nobody probably would have ever had problems with him. 52 00:03:07,103 --> 00:03:08,855 [Interviewer] We're live, so... [laughs] 53 00:03:08,897 --> 00:03:10,064 [indistinct off-screen dialogue] 54 00:03:10,106 --> 00:03:11,566 [Aaron Traywick] Oh we're live right now? 55 00:03:11,608 --> 00:03:12,692 [Interviewer] Yes. 56 00:03:12,734 --> 00:03:14,736 Oh my God. Ok so yeah, I'm good, man. 57 00:03:14,777 --> 00:03:17,906 Uh, I'm not gonna be staring off into space anymore. 58 00:03:17,947 --> 00:03:19,908 So, I'm Aaron Traywick, 59 00:03:19,949 --> 00:03:22,076 I'm the CEO of Ascendance Biomedical. 60 00:03:22,118 --> 00:03:26,581 We have three, open access gene therapy platforms 61 00:03:26,623 --> 00:03:28,082 that are open to researchers, 62 00:03:28,124 --> 00:03:30,251 independent and commercial, around the world. 63 00:03:30,293 --> 00:03:32,420 These technologies, these platforms, 64 00:03:32,462 --> 00:03:34,255 are capable of bringing the cost 65 00:03:34,297 --> 00:03:36,925 of delivering disease management strategies, 66 00:03:36,966 --> 00:03:38,927 cures, um, and vaccinations 67 00:03:38,968 --> 00:03:40,595 to members of the general public 68 00:03:40,637 --> 00:03:43,097 at less than $100 a dose, per patient, 69 00:03:43,139 --> 00:03:46,100 for what is intended on every therapy that we develop 70 00:03:46,142 --> 00:03:49,479 to be a one-time use, one-time cure. 71 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,107 If somebody in their home can manufacture and produce 72 00:03:53,149 --> 00:03:55,610 everything that their own family would need 73 00:03:55,652 --> 00:03:58,780 need in terms of their healthcare, I mean, 74 00:03:58,821 --> 00:04:00,073 that would be beautiful. 75 00:04:00,114 --> 00:04:02,116 I mean, that's the idea, the science fiction idea, 76 00:04:02,158 --> 00:04:05,745 of a maker applied to the area of human life, 77 00:04:05,787 --> 00:04:08,581 where we need it most: healthcare. 78 00:04:08,623 --> 00:04:12,585 dissonant, pulsing music 79 00:04:12,627 --> 00:04:14,128 [Michael Laufer] So, Aaron Traywick, 80 00:04:14,170 --> 00:04:16,589 it's always an attention getter when you 81 00:04:16,631 --> 00:04:19,300 take your pants off and stab yourself. 82 00:04:19,342 --> 00:04:21,803 Not everybody is going to have the bandwidth 83 00:04:21,844 --> 00:04:24,138 to be able to sit down and understand 84 00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:26,641 what you're doing on a really deep level. 85 00:04:26,683 --> 00:04:29,143 And if you do something a little showy- 86 00:04:29,185 --> 00:04:31,145 Oh, you want me to put my pants... 87 00:04:31,187 --> 00:04:32,647 are you sure? [laughs] 88 00:04:32,689 --> 00:04:35,483 [Michael Laufer] -you can catch the attention of people 89 00:04:35,525 --> 00:04:37,652 who should be interested and, 90 00:04:37,694 --> 00:04:40,154 and would be, but otherwise might miss it. 91 00:04:40,196 --> 00:04:41,656 So yeah, good guns to him. 92 00:04:41,698 --> 00:04:44,158 [indistinct chatter] 93 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,160 [Mac Davis] He publicly stated 94 00:04:46,202 --> 00:04:48,997 that the healthcare systems were failing us. 95 00:04:49,038 --> 00:04:56,004 He suggested and really believed that the situation 96 00:04:56,045 --> 00:04:58,673 that we were in as humans today 97 00:04:58,715 --> 00:05:03,803 was so dire that we needed immediate, 98 00:05:03,845 --> 00:05:07,807 radical improvements to our lifestyles. 99 00:05:07,849 --> 00:05:11,811 In terms of longevity, and disease treatment, 100 00:05:11,853 --> 00:05:14,314 he saw that the things were possible, 101 00:05:14,355 --> 00:05:17,483 and that they needed to happen 102 00:05:17,525 --> 00:05:19,485 as quickly as possible. 103 00:05:21,696 --> 00:05:24,532 [Michael Henderson] I think he looked at his self 104 00:05:24,574 --> 00:05:26,034 as being a motivator. 105 00:05:26,075 --> 00:05:29,037 He knew that he was like this Batman-type character 106 00:05:29,078 --> 00:05:32,040 that folks would hate him, or love him. 107 00:05:32,081 --> 00:05:35,251 But he needed to, uh, have this burden to... 108 00:05:37,754 --> 00:05:39,088 to change the world. 109 00:05:40,089 --> 00:05:41,549 I remember he told me 110 00:05:41,591 --> 00:05:43,217 that he didn't like aging, 111 00:05:43,259 --> 00:05:45,887 that the saddest day of his life 112 00:05:45,928 --> 00:05:48,056 would be to see his father die. 113 00:05:48,097 --> 00:05:51,225 And so he's going to do everything in his power 114 00:05:51,267 --> 00:05:54,228 to help extend human life. 115 00:05:54,270 --> 00:05:56,230 So, it was very family-based, 116 00:05:56,272 --> 00:05:58,232 his motives and reasons. 117 00:05:58,274 --> 00:06:02,695 dissonant music 118 00:06:09,577 --> 00:06:11,871 [Aaron Traywick] I am from a firmly-rooted 119 00:06:11,913 --> 00:06:14,248 middle class family in Alabama. 120 00:06:14,290 --> 00:06:16,376 I was adopted at 7 days old. 121 00:06:16,417 --> 00:06:18,878 My parents raised me in a very, very small town, 122 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,213 one of the smallest in Alabama, 123 00:06:20,254 --> 00:06:21,714 right where they filmed Big Fish, 124 00:06:21,756 --> 00:06:23,299 if you've ever seen that movie. 125 00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:27,053 My father was a welder in the National Guard, 126 00:06:27,095 --> 00:06:29,722 and my momma was a, a nurse at a rehab clinic, 127 00:06:29,764 --> 00:06:32,100 and later worked for the State, still does. 128 00:06:32,141 --> 00:06:34,268 - [dog barking] - [birds chirping] 129 00:06:34,310 --> 00:06:35,937 Growing up, my grandparents 130 00:06:35,978 --> 00:06:37,772 they died pretty slowly of diabetes 131 00:06:37,814 --> 00:06:39,774 and our family, we took care of 'em. 132 00:06:39,816 --> 00:06:43,277 And you know, day in, day out, almost every weekend, 133 00:06:43,319 --> 00:06:45,613 a lot of my childhood was spent, you know, 134 00:06:45,655 --> 00:06:47,949 caring for my, my grandparents. 135 00:06:47,990 --> 00:06:51,119 One day, my grandma was in the hospital 136 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,787 and she was in the ventilator. 137 00:06:52,829 --> 00:06:54,789 And the doctors come in and they tell you 138 00:06:54,831 --> 00:06:56,624 there's nothing they can do for her. 139 00:06:56,666 --> 00:06:58,960 And if you give 'em this much money every day, 140 00:06:59,001 --> 00:07:01,546 they can keep her alive as long as you want. 141 00:07:01,587 --> 00:07:03,548 I was disgusted at the idea 142 00:07:03,589 --> 00:07:05,591 that if I ever was in that position, 143 00:07:05,633 --> 00:07:07,760 then I would have to be making financial decisions 144 00:07:07,802 --> 00:07:09,595 based on my own self-preservation, 145 00:07:09,637 --> 00:07:12,098 at the cost of my loved one's life. 146 00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:15,768 [birds chirping] 147 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:17,937 [Kristen Bennett] His Christmas list, yeah, 148 00:07:17,979 --> 00:07:20,148 was always comic books, 149 00:07:20,189 --> 00:07:22,442 and then what other books he wanted. 150 00:07:22,483 --> 00:07:23,943 [Kimberly Bennett] He had, like, t... 151 00:07:23,985 --> 00:07:26,112 was it, how many boxes did he have, two or three? 152 00:07:26,154 --> 00:07:27,488 [Rita Traywick] Three. 153 00:07:27,530 --> 00:07:28,781 [Kimberly Bennett] They were like big white boxes 154 00:07:28,823 --> 00:07:30,616 and they were filled up with comics. 155 00:07:30,658 --> 00:07:32,493 And he would never let us touch 'em. 156 00:07:32,535 --> 00:07:34,120 That's one thing you did not mess with 157 00:07:34,162 --> 00:07:35,455 when you went in his room. 158 00:07:35,496 --> 00:07:37,331 Yeah, if you did, he had special ones, 159 00:07:37,373 --> 00:07:39,000 and they were all in a cover, 160 00:07:39,041 --> 00:07:41,169 and you could only look at those. 161 00:07:43,212 --> 00:07:46,174 [Rita Traywick] He saw one set of his grandparents 162 00:07:46,215 --> 00:07:49,844 struggle with medical care and getting medications. 163 00:07:49,886 --> 00:07:52,180 And, um, I think he, 164 00:07:52,221 --> 00:07:54,015 he just wanted to help people all round. 165 00:07:54,056 --> 00:07:56,017 Then his, his daddy's got, um, emphysema, 166 00:07:56,058 --> 00:07:58,853 and that was gonna be one of his things too, 167 00:07:58,895 --> 00:08:00,271 to try and find something for, 168 00:08:00,313 --> 00:08:02,273 you know, lung diseases. 169 00:08:02,315 --> 00:08:04,609 He wanted to take care of me and his daddy, 170 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:06,652 and he always wanted to take care of these girls. 171 00:08:06,694 --> 00:08:08,613 It didn't matter, they... he wanted to, 172 00:08:08,654 --> 00:08:10,656 he wanted to be able to take care of them, 173 00:08:10,698 --> 00:08:13,659 and that was part of his goal. 174 00:08:13,701 --> 00:08:15,119 If you've got a problem, 175 00:08:15,161 --> 00:08:17,830 he wants to try to figure it out, help try to solve it, 176 00:08:17,872 --> 00:08:19,332 and try to make everybody okay. 177 00:08:22,877 --> 00:08:24,837 [traffic sounds] 178 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:26,380 [Aaron Traywick] I went to a 179 00:08:26,422 --> 00:08:28,674 public liberal arts university in Alabama. 180 00:08:28,716 --> 00:08:30,843 I just followed my passions. 181 00:08:30,885 --> 00:08:33,846 In the process, I gained an education out of it. 182 00:08:33,888 --> 00:08:36,015 [Interviewer] Just tell me your name again 183 00:08:36,057 --> 00:08:37,225 and your organization. 184 00:08:37,266 --> 00:08:38,851 Aaron Traywick, 185 00:08:38,893 --> 00:08:41,020 Coalition of Alabama Students for the Environment. 186 00:08:41,062 --> 00:08:44,023 [Aaron Traywick] Then wrote a thesis for my degree. 187 00:08:44,065 --> 00:08:47,235 And moved on from there into the world 188 00:08:47,276 --> 00:08:48,736 to continue what is essentially, 189 00:08:48,778 --> 00:08:51,239 and always will be, self-directed research. 190 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,907 [birds chirping] 191 00:08:52,949 --> 00:08:55,243 After doing a lot of community organizing work 192 00:08:55,284 --> 00:08:57,411 and establishing a decent career for myself 193 00:08:57,453 --> 00:08:59,705 around public health and the environment in Alabama, 194 00:08:59,747 --> 00:09:03,000 I traveled very frequently through South America, 195 00:09:03,042 --> 00:09:05,169 trying to understand a little bit more 196 00:09:05,211 --> 00:09:09,006 about where the psychological development 197 00:09:09,048 --> 00:09:11,342 and evolution of humanity was headed. 198 00:09:13,886 --> 00:09:16,013 Life extension, it seemed to me, 199 00:09:16,055 --> 00:09:19,058 was the real barrier that if this one was surmounted 200 00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:21,894 in some way, we could be creating a world 201 00:09:21,936 --> 00:09:26,899 where individuals could feel safer, and not so shocked, 202 00:09:26,941 --> 00:09:29,902 and cajoled, and tossed around by the pressures 203 00:09:29,944 --> 00:09:33,406 that come with living an existence that is perpetually 204 00:09:33,447 --> 00:09:34,740 required to deny 205 00:09:34,782 --> 00:09:37,076 the inevitability of its own demise. 206 00:09:46,961 --> 00:09:53,968 suspenseful music 207 00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:57,138 [Edwina Rogers] Aaron Traywick was my first cousin. 208 00:09:57,179 --> 00:10:01,183 This was where he lived when he was in Washington. 209 00:10:03,019 --> 00:10:05,479 He learned that lobbyist world 210 00:10:05,521 --> 00:10:08,357 that he had access to through me. 211 00:10:10,026 --> 00:10:12,320 I did a lot of work internationally, 212 00:10:12,361 --> 00:10:14,488 uh, lobbying for foreign governments, 213 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:15,865 and also for companies. 214 00:10:18,034 --> 00:10:19,827 I got a phone call. 215 00:10:19,869 --> 00:10:23,664 Aaron told me that he was in Colombia, South America, 216 00:10:23,706 --> 00:10:26,834 working on a microbrewery. 217 00:10:26,876 --> 00:10:32,256 But that gig had ended, and he needed to find a new job. 218 00:10:33,382 --> 00:10:35,343 First impressions were interesting, 219 00:10:35,384 --> 00:10:36,844 because we picked him up at the airport 220 00:10:36,886 --> 00:10:39,013 and he was like a little ragamuffin. 221 00:10:39,055 --> 00:10:41,349 I mean he was sort of like a hobo incarnate. 222 00:10:41,390 --> 00:10:43,351 He had the tattered T-shirt, 223 00:10:43,392 --> 00:10:45,019 he had the long straggly hair, 224 00:10:45,061 --> 00:10:46,520 and all of his worldly possessions 225 00:10:46,562 --> 00:10:48,689 in this knapsack, and dirty tennis shoes. 226 00:10:48,731 --> 00:10:50,733 So, our very first thought with him 227 00:10:50,775 --> 00:10:54,278 was to get him a haircut and then go get clothes for him. 228 00:10:55,738 --> 00:10:58,199 [Edwina Rogers] I had three personal assistants 229 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,533 at that time. 230 00:10:59,575 --> 00:11:01,369 One of them really wasn't working out, 231 00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:05,206 and I could replace one personal assistant with him 232 00:11:05,247 --> 00:11:07,041 so that he could come to Washington 233 00:11:07,083 --> 00:11:10,086 and get a job, and, and have a career. 234 00:11:11,337 --> 00:11:14,382 We just integrated him into everything 235 00:11:14,423 --> 00:11:17,927 for the three foundations that I run. 236 00:11:19,929 --> 00:11:23,224 He spent most of his time working on projects 237 00:11:23,265 --> 00:11:26,060 for Global Healthspan Policy Institute. 238 00:11:26,102 --> 00:11:29,230 But he also helped me start a foundation 239 00:11:29,271 --> 00:11:32,400 for wealthy gentlemen in Tucson, Arizona 240 00:11:32,441 --> 00:11:35,528 that's all about, uh, stem research. 241 00:11:37,113 --> 00:11:38,406 [Greg Neimeyer] She trundled him through 242 00:11:38,447 --> 00:11:39,782 the Senate and the House 243 00:11:39,824 --> 00:11:41,409 and introduced him to members of Congress, 244 00:11:41,450 --> 00:11:43,411 and got him involved in the business, 245 00:11:43,452 --> 00:11:46,414 and got him oriented, just exactly as you would expect 246 00:11:46,455 --> 00:11:49,417 in trying to mentor somebody into a new kind of business 247 00:11:49,458 --> 00:11:52,420 and industry that he was completely unfamiliar with. 248 00:11:55,131 --> 00:11:58,050 [Aaron Traywick] I got started here on Capitol Hill, D.C. 249 00:11:59,468 --> 00:12:02,555 Wanted to find a way to, uh, really contribute, 250 00:12:02,596 --> 00:12:04,890 you know, to the field, to aging research, 251 00:12:04,932 --> 00:12:06,600 and particularly the underlying causes 252 00:12:06,642 --> 00:12:08,269 of aging-related disease. 253 00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:11,105 dissonant music 254 00:12:11,147 --> 00:12:12,606 [Aaron] I would consider myself a biohacker 255 00:12:12,648 --> 00:12:16,944 only in the sense that Jonas Salk was a biohacker. 256 00:12:16,986 --> 00:12:20,781 [Announcer] In 1954, a vaccine to prevent paralytic polio, 257 00:12:20,823 --> 00:12:23,117 developed by Dr. Jonas Salk. 258 00:12:23,159 --> 00:12:25,161 [Man] Who owns the patent on this vaccine? 259 00:12:26,412 --> 00:12:27,955 [Jonas Salk] Well, the people, I would say. 260 00:12:27,997 --> 00:12:31,125 There is no patent. This is, could you patent the sun? 261 00:12:31,167 --> 00:12:32,626 [laughs] 262 00:12:32,668 --> 00:12:35,129 [Aaron] He self-tested the polio vaccine 263 00:12:35,171 --> 00:12:36,464 on himself and his family, 264 00:12:36,505 --> 00:12:39,675 saving millions of lives in the process, 265 00:12:39,717 --> 00:12:43,137 and creating open source information that was then able 266 00:12:43,179 --> 00:12:45,973 to spread freely around the world and eradicate the disease 267 00:12:46,015 --> 00:12:48,184 in a timeframe that could never have occurred, 268 00:12:48,225 --> 00:12:51,145 had he not made all those decisions, 269 00:12:51,187 --> 00:12:53,439 on behalf of himself and humanity. 270 00:12:54,857 --> 00:12:56,650 It's about not waiting around for other companies, 271 00:12:56,692 --> 00:12:58,986 other people, other researchers to come up with the cures 272 00:12:59,028 --> 00:13:02,114 to help my family, my loved ones, my friends, 273 00:13:02,156 --> 00:13:03,949 my community, the world. 274 00:13:03,991 --> 00:13:06,118 It's about taking it into your own hands, 275 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,287 doing it yourself, getting the work done, 276 00:13:08,329 --> 00:13:10,664 and not letting any delays get in the way. 277 00:13:10,706 --> 00:13:13,167 suspenseful music 278 00:13:13,209 --> 00:13:16,337 [Alex Pearlman] Aaron came out very secretive. 279 00:13:16,378 --> 00:13:20,007 "I have a ton of money. I'm gonna be a biohacker. 280 00:13:20,049 --> 00:13:22,009 I'm gonna make cures for people. 281 00:13:22,051 --> 00:13:23,677 And we're gonna upend the system." 282 00:13:23,719 --> 00:13:27,181 And had this persona that I felt 283 00:13:27,223 --> 00:13:31,185 was very, very different than what biohackers, 284 00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:33,187 who were self-identified biohackers, 285 00:13:33,229 --> 00:13:36,273 had previously displayed themselves as. 286 00:13:37,483 --> 00:13:40,194 A big part of hacking and hacking culture 287 00:13:40,236 --> 00:13:43,531 is working outside of establishment, 288 00:13:43,572 --> 00:13:46,367 science, academia, research. 289 00:13:46,408 --> 00:13:50,037 [Biohacker] Okay, we're gonna make an agarose gel 290 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:52,206 for separating our DNA. 291 00:13:52,248 --> 00:13:54,375 [door shutting] [beeping] 292 00:13:57,086 --> 00:13:58,546 [Alex Pearlman] Garage or kitchen culture 293 00:13:58,587 --> 00:14:01,507 is a part of what people associate with hacking, 294 00:14:01,549 --> 00:14:05,845 and whether that in reality means a community lab, 295 00:14:05,886 --> 00:14:08,848 or a shared maker space. 296 00:14:08,889 --> 00:14:10,349 [steam hissing] 297 00:14:10,391 --> 00:14:15,521 Just the idea that it's not part of an institution 298 00:14:15,563 --> 00:14:19,024 is part of hacking. 299 00:14:19,066 --> 00:14:21,402 [Narrator] So how did we get here? 300 00:14:21,443 --> 00:14:24,238 We have always been biohackers. 301 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,740 For thousands of years, humans have been engaged 302 00:14:26,782 --> 00:14:28,409 in the pursuit of knowledge. 303 00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:31,912 We made medical discoveries by testing on ourselves. 304 00:14:31,954 --> 00:14:34,081 Self-experimentation and citizen science 305 00:14:34,123 --> 00:14:36,250 were popular during the Victorian Era. 306 00:14:36,292 --> 00:14:38,919 That's when the Naturalist Movement emerged, 307 00:14:38,961 --> 00:14:41,005 and standardized the Scientific Method. 308 00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:44,592 Major discoveries were made in all branches of science 309 00:14:44,633 --> 00:14:46,093 in the late 1800s: 310 00:14:46,135 --> 00:14:49,763 physics, astronomy, natural history, and medicine. 311 00:14:49,805 --> 00:14:53,100 And then when science and technology merged 312 00:14:53,142 --> 00:14:54,768 with the consumer market, 313 00:14:54,810 --> 00:14:57,146 it gave birth to the modern healthcare economy. 314 00:14:57,187 --> 00:14:58,814 In the early 20th century, 315 00:14:58,856 --> 00:15:02,401 mass production met chemical engineering, just in time 316 00:15:02,443 --> 00:15:05,779 for World War I and the rise of the pharmaceutical industry. 317 00:15:05,821 --> 00:15:08,240 Regulatory bodies, like the FDA, 318 00:15:08,282 --> 00:15:10,326 are then created to control them. 319 00:15:11,619 --> 00:15:14,246 World War II ushers in the atomic age, 320 00:15:14,288 --> 00:15:17,124 and cements in place a military industrial complex 321 00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:19,793 that sees science as something to be controlled. 322 00:15:19,835 --> 00:15:21,795 Corporations and the government 323 00:15:21,837 --> 00:15:24,423 then end up monopolizing the pursuit of science, 324 00:15:24,465 --> 00:15:26,091 and while great leaps are made, 325 00:15:26,133 --> 00:15:28,010 they're made behind closed doors. 326 00:15:29,345 --> 00:15:31,972 Big Pharma privatizes advances in medicine, 327 00:15:32,014 --> 00:15:34,141 and independent self-experimentation 328 00:15:34,183 --> 00:15:36,977 is seen as more of a primitive approach. 329 00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:40,314 Leaps in computing power and the internet bring the promise 330 00:15:40,356 --> 00:15:43,317 of shared knowledge and open source connectivity. 331 00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:46,320 But as this space is also corporatized, 332 00:15:46,362 --> 00:15:47,655 the hacker is born. 333 00:15:47,696 --> 00:15:49,323 electronic music 334 00:15:49,365 --> 00:15:51,492 The internet is fertile ground 335 00:15:51,533 --> 00:15:52,660 for the modern citizen scientist 336 00:15:52,701 --> 00:15:54,328 because all that computing power 337 00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:56,664 unlocked the human genome. 338 00:15:56,705 --> 00:15:58,332 And now, players in Big Pharma 339 00:15:58,374 --> 00:16:00,626 even want to patent human DNA. 340 00:16:00,668 --> 00:16:04,630 A breakthrough new technology with limitless capabilities, 341 00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:06,465 called CRISPR, is discovered. 342 00:16:06,507 --> 00:16:08,842 It's a revolutionary gene-editing tool 343 00:16:08,884 --> 00:16:11,971 that can permanently edit any organism's DNA. 344 00:16:12,012 --> 00:16:15,140 CRISPR technology is disseminated 345 00:16:15,182 --> 00:16:17,142 throughout the biohacking community 346 00:16:17,184 --> 00:16:18,644 and made accessible to the masses. 347 00:16:18,686 --> 00:16:20,312 It's happening at a rate 348 00:16:20,354 --> 00:16:22,815 that the powers that be can't control. 349 00:16:22,856 --> 00:16:26,318 And now, the age of biohacking is upon us. 350 00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:35,369 - [street noise] - [sirens] 351 00:16:46,588 --> 00:16:49,550 [Michael Laufer] I feel that hacking is an ethical concern. 352 00:16:49,591 --> 00:16:53,804 It's a good, and I argue that it's the greatest good. 353 00:16:55,931 --> 00:16:59,059 What it does is it takes what's available 354 00:16:59,101 --> 00:17:01,645 and it leverages that in order to do more 355 00:17:01,687 --> 00:17:03,063 than what's allowed. 356 00:17:05,357 --> 00:17:08,027 The medical community has not figured this out. 357 00:17:08,068 --> 00:17:10,571 The chemical community has not figured this out. 358 00:17:11,989 --> 00:17:14,074 The biological community is starting to figure this out, 359 00:17:14,116 --> 00:17:17,202 which is why we have coined the term biohacking 360 00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:20,706 and so many people are doing it, and it's a great blessing. 361 00:17:20,748 --> 00:17:23,709 We are trying to get medicine and medical technologies 362 00:17:23,751 --> 00:17:25,210 to people who otherwise 363 00:17:25,252 --> 00:17:28,297 wouldn't have it, however we can. 364 00:17:29,506 --> 00:17:32,718 EpiPens started failing left and right. 365 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,720 As if it weren't insulting enough 366 00:17:34,762 --> 00:17:37,389 that they were overcharging, and they failed, 367 00:17:37,431 --> 00:17:38,557 and they weren't safe, 368 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:40,601 and you weren't supposed to make your own, 369 00:17:40,642 --> 00:17:43,937 it's still $609 for a pair of EpiPens. 370 00:17:43,979 --> 00:17:46,440 I'm just gonna show you, this is the set up. 371 00:17:46,482 --> 00:17:47,941 It's the auto injector. 372 00:17:47,983 --> 00:17:49,777 You take the needle from one syringe, 373 00:17:49,818 --> 00:17:51,945 you plop it on the other syringe, you load it, 374 00:17:51,987 --> 00:17:53,489 and you're good to go. 375 00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:57,701 Is there anybody here who suffers from anaphylactic shock? 376 00:17:58,660 --> 00:17:59,620 Who wants this one? 377 00:17:59,661 --> 00:18:04,374 [audience applauding] 378 00:18:08,754 --> 00:18:10,923 When I think of biohacking, I think of people 379 00:18:10,964 --> 00:18:13,759 who work with the living organism as a medium. 380 00:18:13,801 --> 00:18:15,010 That's the bio part. 381 00:18:17,471 --> 00:18:21,433 And then the hacking part is utilizing the... hmm.. 382 00:18:21,475 --> 00:18:24,269 the hacker ethic of saying, 383 00:18:24,311 --> 00:18:26,772 "We can make a better world with technology. 384 00:18:26,814 --> 00:18:29,483 We can utilize things in ways 385 00:18:29,525 --> 00:18:31,985 for which they were not designed." 386 00:18:33,821 --> 00:18:36,782 And we don't wait for permission to do so. 387 00:18:36,824 --> 00:18:41,787 [engine revving] 388 00:18:41,829 --> 00:18:46,834 [motorcycle engine] 389 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,509 [Tim Cannon] If you put a magnet under your finger, 390 00:18:55,551 --> 00:18:57,511 you could sense these electromagnetic fields 391 00:18:57,553 --> 00:18:59,680 and it was like somebody 392 00:18:59,721 --> 00:19:01,431 hit me in the side of the head. 393 00:19:01,473 --> 00:19:03,976 It was like the revolution started without me. 394 00:19:04,017 --> 00:19:06,603 "Ah shit. I mean I gotta catch up." 395 00:19:06,645 --> 00:19:09,439 And so I heard about that in April, and by May, 396 00:19:09,481 --> 00:19:10,941 there was a magnet in my finger. 397 00:19:10,983 --> 00:19:12,776 I just was not waiting anymore. 398 00:19:12,818 --> 00:19:16,446 There is no fucking way that I would ever pass up 399 00:19:16,488 --> 00:19:22,161 an opportunity to prove the efficacy of, of this movement. 400 00:19:22,202 --> 00:19:28,500 [typing] 401 00:19:34,715 --> 00:19:36,842 [News Reporter] A microchip implanted beneath the skin 402 00:19:36,884 --> 00:19:39,011 gives people the same capabilities 403 00:19:39,052 --> 00:19:41,847 as dozens of cards and devices. 404 00:19:41,889 --> 00:19:44,057 [Tim Cannon] What's going to happen is, uh, 405 00:19:44,099 --> 00:19:46,518 I'm going to receive an incision, 406 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,061 my skin will be lifted, 407 00:19:48,103 --> 00:19:50,355 and separated away from its fatty tissues. 408 00:19:50,397 --> 00:19:53,025 And the device will be inserted. 409 00:19:53,066 --> 00:19:55,402 We are not going to be using any anesthetic. 410 00:19:55,444 --> 00:19:57,613 It's really, really gonna hurt. 411 00:19:58,947 --> 00:20:00,908 You don't have to listen to them. 412 00:20:00,949 --> 00:20:03,452 You don't have to fucking do it their way. 413 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:06,413 If you build an alternate institution, 414 00:20:06,455 --> 00:20:08,582 at the end of the day 415 00:20:08,624 --> 00:20:10,417 they will have to conform to our standard, 416 00:20:10,459 --> 00:20:12,920 if we push hard enough, because it's better. 417 00:20:12,961 --> 00:20:15,923 And we can do that, 'cause our proposition is there, 418 00:20:15,964 --> 00:20:18,091 and our talent is there, and our skill is there. 419 00:20:18,133 --> 00:20:19,927 And we got just the right amount of 420 00:20:19,968 --> 00:20:21,595 [raises voice] fuck you! 421 00:20:21,637 --> 00:20:22,596 That's it. 422 00:20:22,638 --> 00:20:26,934 [audience applauds and cheers] 423 00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:35,108 [Michael Laufer] There's no movement 424 00:20:35,150 --> 00:20:36,944 in the history of the planet 425 00:20:36,985 --> 00:20:41,615 that ever had such high aspirations. 426 00:20:41,657 --> 00:20:44,117 [indistinct chatter] 427 00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:47,329 If we can say we don't like the structure of the jungle, 428 00:20:47,371 --> 00:20:50,958 that the strongest survive, then we can shift that. 429 00:20:55,671 --> 00:20:59,633 You see people who are not supported by money 430 00:20:59,675 --> 00:21:02,344 or infrastructure, or materials, 431 00:21:03,512 --> 00:21:06,640 and so they make do with what they have. 432 00:21:06,682 --> 00:21:08,141 [Man] There we go. 433 00:21:08,183 --> 00:21:10,811 [Michael Laufer] But they are less afraid to do so. 434 00:21:10,852 --> 00:21:12,479 Man: And so yeah, so when we're done, 435 00:21:12,521 --> 00:21:14,481 you just stand here in the corner by the sink. 436 00:21:14,523 --> 00:21:16,817 And if we are like "Oh shit, run and get, like, 437 00:21:16,858 --> 00:21:18,485 a fuckin', you know, butter knife quick.", 438 00:21:18,527 --> 00:21:19,820 that would be your role. 439 00:21:23,699 --> 00:21:26,994 [larva rustling] 440 00:21:27,035 --> 00:21:29,663 [water running] 441 00:21:29,705 --> 00:21:33,667 [indistinct chatter] 442 00:21:36,878 --> 00:21:39,673 [Man] You want it to sit there and get it closed 443 00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:41,091 even before you suture. 444 00:21:42,384 --> 00:21:44,177 [Woman] That's perfect placement. Thank you. 445 00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:48,682 [Man] No problem. So, there you go. 446 00:21:48,724 --> 00:21:49,850 [scissor snip] 447 00:21:49,891 --> 00:21:51,518 [Woman] You rock my world, dude. 448 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,023 electronic music 449 00:21:56,064 --> 00:21:58,525 [Man] Almost more delicate than a surgery. 450 00:22:01,028 --> 00:22:03,196 [Russ Foxx] There's an RFID chip in my hand, 451 00:22:03,238 --> 00:22:04,823 and we were just trying to get 452 00:22:04,865 --> 00:22:05,991 the reader working again. 453 00:22:06,033 --> 00:22:06,992 [indistinct chatter] 454 00:22:07,034 --> 00:22:08,702 This is the reader here. 455 00:22:08,744 --> 00:22:11,872 [reader beeping] 456 00:22:11,913 --> 00:22:16,043 My RFID transponder I use to activate my motorcycle. 457 00:22:16,084 --> 00:22:19,212 [engine revving] 458 00:22:19,254 --> 00:22:20,797 [device beeping] 459 00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:23,884 And I use it to access my safes at home for security. 460 00:22:23,925 --> 00:22:25,761 [device beeping] [safe clicking open] 461 00:22:27,763 --> 00:22:29,056 We're the ones that are 462 00:22:29,097 --> 00:22:30,724 putting in the experimentation, 463 00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:32,726 and putting these things into our own bodies. 464 00:22:32,768 --> 00:22:34,227 We are gonna be the people 465 00:22:34,269 --> 00:22:36,063 that develop these technologies 466 00:22:36,104 --> 00:22:37,564 and get them noticed 467 00:22:37,606 --> 00:22:39,399 before they're taken to the next step. 468 00:22:41,777 --> 00:22:45,072 [Michael Laufer] I often harken back to the era of 469 00:22:45,113 --> 00:22:48,241 the early alchemists, because 470 00:22:48,283 --> 00:22:50,285 they were trying to pursue science 471 00:22:50,327 --> 00:22:52,621 during a time where doing so 472 00:22:52,662 --> 00:22:55,374 was punishable by death. 473 00:22:56,124 --> 00:22:57,667 And they did it anyway. 474 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,547 And that's a pretty heavy risk to take. 475 00:23:02,589 --> 00:23:05,384 Um, a number of people in this community will do things 476 00:23:05,425 --> 00:23:07,719 that are on the margins of legality 477 00:23:07,761 --> 00:23:10,055 or are entirely extra-legal. 478 00:23:10,097 --> 00:23:11,556 [Gabriel Licina] 620 microliters? 479 00:23:11,598 --> 00:23:13,100 [Man] That sounds about right. 480 00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:16,937 [Ana Kasparian] The Science for Masses team 481 00:23:16,978 --> 00:23:21,441 has created eyedrops that allow people to see in detail 482 00:23:21,483 --> 00:23:22,943 when they are in the dark. 483 00:23:22,984 --> 00:23:25,821 The solution is made of something known as CE6. 484 00:23:27,155 --> 00:23:29,116 They wanted to test this out 485 00:23:29,157 --> 00:23:32,452 by using the liquid on Gabriel Licina. 486 00:23:32,494 --> 00:23:34,830 He's a biochemistry researcher. 487 00:23:37,332 --> 00:23:40,836 I'm going to eat your soul. [laughs] 488 00:23:42,170 --> 00:23:43,630 [Ana Kasparian] Within an hour, 489 00:23:43,672 --> 00:23:45,632 Licina said he could identify shapes 490 00:23:45,674 --> 00:23:49,511 the size of a hand about 30 feet away in the dark. 491 00:23:58,019 --> 00:24:00,355 [Gabriel Licina] I was answering 100 emails a day, 492 00:24:00,397 --> 00:24:01,940 people who were like, 493 00:24:01,982 --> 00:24:06,111 "My 9 year daughter has retinos pigmentosa. 494 00:24:06,153 --> 00:24:10,449 RP you know, and she can't see in the dark." 495 00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:15,620 I'm like, "I am not sending weird science molecules 496 00:24:15,662 --> 00:24:17,956 for you to test on your children." 497 00:24:17,998 --> 00:24:21,835 suspenseful music 498 00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:24,171 My name's Gabriel Licina. 499 00:24:24,212 --> 00:24:26,006 Right now you're in Sci House 500 00:24:26,047 --> 00:24:29,342 which is a 501 C3 nonprofit research 501 00:24:29,384 --> 00:24:32,679 and educational outreach laboratory. 502 00:24:32,721 --> 00:24:36,850 I graduated from high school in 1999. 503 00:24:36,892 --> 00:24:39,019 And I went straight into college, 504 00:24:39,060 --> 00:24:40,687 into the Computer Science program, 505 00:24:40,729 --> 00:24:43,440 and started rapidly failing all my classes. 506 00:24:44,733 --> 00:24:48,195 And then kind of got smitten with science. 507 00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:50,197 I just got really excited about 508 00:24:50,238 --> 00:24:53,742 how powerful and foreign biology is. 509 00:24:55,911 --> 00:24:58,121 I was like, "Oh, this is beautiful." 510 00:24:59,539 --> 00:25:02,083 I was really passionate about changing the world. 511 00:25:03,877 --> 00:25:06,379 I saw this very powerful technology 512 00:25:06,421 --> 00:25:11,176 that was capable of doing something positive. 513 00:25:14,429 --> 00:25:17,224 I was like, "All right, so I have a background in biology, 514 00:25:17,265 --> 00:25:18,850 I work in a laboratory." 515 00:25:18,892 --> 00:25:21,853 I'm like, "Let's talk about biohacking." 516 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,904 I ended up having a lot of text conversations 517 00:25:30,946 --> 00:25:33,907 with this guy named Aaron. 518 00:25:33,949 --> 00:25:36,743 Sometimes I had phone calls, 519 00:25:36,785 --> 00:25:39,913 and things escalated really rapidly. 520 00:25:39,955 --> 00:25:43,083 [running water] 521 00:25:43,124 --> 00:25:45,085 He was talking with everybody else that I knew 522 00:25:45,126 --> 00:25:46,753 from the biohacking community. 523 00:25:46,795 --> 00:25:50,924 This would be Mac Davies, this would be David Ishee. 524 00:25:50,966 --> 00:25:52,926 And turns out that all these people 525 00:25:52,968 --> 00:25:54,928 were also kind of pulled into this 526 00:25:54,970 --> 00:25:57,973 because it was the magical money faucet. 527 00:25:59,432 --> 00:26:04,104 So we are on this conference call with Ascendance. 528 00:26:05,647 --> 00:26:08,441 Aaron's like, "Okay what do you need to do X, Y, Z?" 529 00:26:08,483 --> 00:26:11,403 I'm like, "Okay, we need a place for the lab equipment." 530 00:26:11,444 --> 00:26:13,071 He's like, "All right find a place." 531 00:26:13,113 --> 00:26:14,698 So I find a place. 532 00:26:14,739 --> 00:26:16,783 I'm like, "Somebody needs to sign the lease on the place." 533 00:26:16,825 --> 00:26:19,286 And he's like, "Okay one time power of attorney, go." 534 00:26:20,954 --> 00:26:23,290 I'm like, "Okay we need this, this, this, and this." 535 00:26:24,916 --> 00:26:27,085 He's like, "Find all the links on Amazon, find it on eBay, 536 00:26:27,127 --> 00:26:28,795 find it on gov deals." 537 00:26:29,671 --> 00:26:31,256 We'd send him a link, boom. 538 00:26:31,298 --> 00:26:34,801 $20,000 worth of hardware would just show up. 539 00:26:34,843 --> 00:26:37,971 [dog barking] 540 00:26:38,013 --> 00:26:42,642 [dog barking] 541 00:26:42,684 --> 00:26:46,980 [dog barking] 542 00:26:47,022 --> 00:26:48,815 [David Ishee] I was raised around dogs. 543 00:26:48,857 --> 00:26:50,817 My family's been dog breeders for a long time. 544 00:26:50,859 --> 00:26:51,985 My great grandfather bred dogs, 545 00:26:52,027 --> 00:26:53,653 my grandfather, my father. 546 00:26:56,031 --> 00:26:57,324 My name's David Ishee. 547 00:26:57,365 --> 00:27:00,327 I'm a biohacker in Mississippi. 548 00:27:00,368 --> 00:27:01,745 Were in my lab. 549 00:27:01,786 --> 00:27:03,747 [puppy barking] 550 00:27:03,788 --> 00:27:05,999 There's a lot of genetics that goes into it. 551 00:27:06,958 --> 00:27:08,460 Dogs have more genetic diseases 552 00:27:08,501 --> 00:27:10,962 than any other species on the planet, 553 00:27:11,004 --> 00:27:13,340 over 600 different unique genetic diseases. 554 00:27:13,381 --> 00:27:18,803 And for some context, wolves have seven. [laughs] 555 00:27:18,845 --> 00:27:20,305 So that's hundreds and hundreds 556 00:27:20,347 --> 00:27:22,307 of genetic diseases that we made. 557 00:27:22,349 --> 00:27:24,309 And we don't have the tools to fix them. 558 00:27:24,351 --> 00:27:27,979 And so I say that we do have the tools to fix them, 559 00:27:28,021 --> 00:27:29,189 we're just not using them. 560 00:27:30,273 --> 00:27:31,983 I originally had the idea to do 561 00:27:32,025 --> 00:27:33,151 genetic engineering on dogs, 562 00:27:33,193 --> 00:27:34,986 and to make genetic engineering 563 00:27:35,028 --> 00:27:36,321 accessible to dog breeders, 564 00:27:36,363 --> 00:27:38,198 and so was looking to get a product developed. 565 00:27:38,239 --> 00:27:40,325 dissonant music 566 00:27:40,367 --> 00:27:43,536 Aaron presented Ascendance as being a biotech company. 567 00:27:43,578 --> 00:27:45,372 Basically he would fund the development, 568 00:27:45,413 --> 00:27:46,706 which I had been struggling with, 569 00:27:46,748 --> 00:27:48,875 and in the end he would have the thing, right. 570 00:27:48,917 --> 00:27:50,377 So I would get to use it, 571 00:27:50,418 --> 00:27:52,212 which is all I really wanted. 572 00:27:52,253 --> 00:27:54,047 I stepped through what would be required. 573 00:27:54,089 --> 00:27:55,715 It's like, "Okay, well, Im gonna need DNA. 574 00:27:55,757 --> 00:27:57,217 Well how do you get DNA? 575 00:27:57,258 --> 00:27:59,219 Okay well I need bacteria. How do you get bacteria?" 576 00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:00,553 I needed ampicillin to grow bacteria 577 00:28:00,595 --> 00:28:02,972 because I needed bacteria to grow plasmid DNA. 578 00:28:03,014 --> 00:28:04,974 And so I was searching all over the Internet 579 00:28:05,016 --> 00:28:06,976 and I stumbled onto this website, The Odin, 580 00:28:07,018 --> 00:28:10,146 that had ampicillin for like $3 for a gram. 581 00:28:10,188 --> 00:28:12,816 And so I was convinced at first that it was a scam. 582 00:28:12,857 --> 00:28:14,651 Then I learned more about Josiah. 583 00:28:14,693 --> 00:28:16,194 So I eventually called Josiah 584 00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:19,030 and I was like, "Hey, can I get a little help here? " 585 00:28:19,072 --> 00:28:22,367 So, uh, how's the pregnancy going right now? 586 00:28:22,409 --> 00:28:24,035 How long does it actually take? 587 00:28:24,077 --> 00:28:26,037 Sixty-three days. 588 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:28,540 [laughs] Sixty-three days. Exactly? 589 00:28:28,581 --> 00:28:30,917 Yeah. So I have a couple 590 00:28:30,959 --> 00:28:32,585 of kanamycin-based plasmids. 591 00:28:32,627 --> 00:28:34,254 I was having trouble getting them to grow. 592 00:28:34,295 --> 00:28:36,881 Send over a list of all the stuff you need, 593 00:28:36,923 --> 00:28:40,385 and I'm sure we can get it out. 594 00:28:53,148 --> 00:28:54,941 [Josiah Zayner] Aaron... I'm really close friends 595 00:28:54,983 --> 00:28:56,609 with all the people who worked with him, 596 00:28:56,651 --> 00:28:57,902 and I helped him out. 597 00:28:57,944 --> 00:28:59,946 That's one of the things he didn't know. 598 00:28:59,988 --> 00:29:01,197 Behind the scenes, 599 00:29:01,239 --> 00:29:03,867 I was helping out everybody at his company. 600 00:29:03,908 --> 00:29:06,703 You know, I was trying to push them in the correct direction, 601 00:29:06,745 --> 00:29:09,080 so that they didn't do anything stupid or crazy 602 00:29:09,122 --> 00:29:10,457 or nobody got hurt. 603 00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:13,543 My name is Josiah Zayner 604 00:29:13,585 --> 00:29:16,296 and I am founder and CEO of The Odin. 605 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:21,634 Biohacker-in-Chief, I guess. That's really lame. [laughs] 606 00:29:23,136 --> 00:29:25,430 I'm also the first person in the world 607 00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:28,266 to genetically modify myself with CRISPR. 608 00:29:28,308 --> 00:29:33,646 [indistinct chatter] 609 00:29:33,688 --> 00:29:37,108 I received my PhD in Biophysics 610 00:29:37,150 --> 00:29:38,943 from the University of Chicago, 611 00:29:38,985 --> 00:29:41,279 where I did lots of protein engineering 612 00:29:41,321 --> 00:29:42,947 and genetic engineering. 613 00:29:42,989 --> 00:29:45,825 [on tape] Okay I want to show you what NASA's like. 614 00:29:45,867 --> 00:29:47,452 [on tape] It is 2:00 p.m. 615 00:29:47,494 --> 00:29:51,289 After that, I received a job to work at NASA. 616 00:29:51,331 --> 00:29:58,171 [on tape] Nobody in that lab. No one. No one. 617 00:29:58,213 --> 00:30:01,007 [on tape] In all the labs, nobody. 618 00:30:01,049 --> 00:30:04,219 [NASA, the hardest-working people in the government. 619 00:30:07,055 --> 00:30:08,515 I was like, "Enough of this shit." 620 00:30:08,556 --> 00:30:09,974 I couldn't really get a job 621 00:30:10,016 --> 00:30:12,852 because obviously I don't work well with others. 622 00:30:12,894 --> 00:30:19,526 [on tape] Okay so this is my apartment/lab. 623 00:30:19,567 --> 00:30:21,528 So I decided to start my own company. 624 00:30:21,569 --> 00:30:24,697 I ran a crowd-funding campaign 625 00:30:24,739 --> 00:30:26,199 for these CRISPR kits. 626 00:30:26,241 --> 00:30:28,034 I thought it would be an amazing idea 627 00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:29,702 if people could do CRISPR at home. 628 00:30:29,744 --> 00:30:33,706 This is where we package and ship out all of our kits. 629 00:30:33,748 --> 00:30:36,042 We send out a shit ton. 630 00:30:36,084 --> 00:30:39,212 This is where we keep all of our DNA. 631 00:30:39,254 --> 00:30:42,966 This is basically all the important shit that we have. 632 00:30:43,758 --> 00:30:45,051 What I'm trying to do is 633 00:30:45,093 --> 00:30:46,594 I'm trying to push the field forward, 634 00:30:46,636 --> 00:30:49,055 by doing cutting edge experiments 635 00:30:49,097 --> 00:30:51,558 that are well-thought-out, well-planned. 636 00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:53,226 Safety is well-understood 637 00:30:53,268 --> 00:30:56,729 and the experiments are well-proposed. 638 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,359 When you look at your DNA, 639 00:31:01,401 --> 00:31:04,404 that's the ultimate introspection. 640 00:31:04,445 --> 00:31:06,239 Like, what can we change there? 641 00:31:06,281 --> 00:31:10,410 What does that mean for me to change my DNA? 642 00:31:10,451 --> 00:31:13,413 What does that mean for me as a human being? 643 00:31:16,624 --> 00:31:18,918 When scientists first discovered CRISPR, 644 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,255 it was used in bacteria to cut DNA. 645 00:31:22,297 --> 00:31:25,091 But now, what you can imagine 646 00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:27,260 is if you want to engineer 647 00:31:27,302 --> 00:31:29,762 any piece of DNA inside humans, 648 00:31:29,804 --> 00:31:32,765 all you have to do is you have to know 649 00:31:32,807 --> 00:31:35,768 the RNA that matches the DNA 650 00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:38,104 and then you could go in there and cut it. 651 00:31:38,146 --> 00:31:40,940 We're gonna change one base of DNA. 652 00:31:40,982 --> 00:31:44,527 And that one single base of DNA that we change, 653 00:31:45,778 --> 00:31:49,449 that's all it takes to change the function 654 00:31:49,490 --> 00:31:51,784 of a whole organism. 655 00:31:51,826 --> 00:31:54,120 One single base of DNA. 656 00:31:54,162 --> 00:31:58,291 [Woman] Three, two, one. Cheese. [clapping] 657 00:31:58,333 --> 00:31:59,542 Thank you. 658 00:32:01,127 --> 00:32:03,588 [Alex Perlman] A couple of the events that have transpired 659 00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:06,424 since I started reporting on biohackers, 660 00:32:06,466 --> 00:32:10,637 the first major one was Josiah 661 00:32:10,678 --> 00:32:13,139 on Facebook using CRISPR on himself. 662 00:32:13,181 --> 00:32:14,641 And I was just like, "Whoa." 663 00:32:16,851 --> 00:32:18,978 This will modify my muscle genes 664 00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:21,481 to give me bigger muscles. 665 00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:26,653 [Jane Metcalfe] Josiah is a committed bio punk. 666 00:32:26,694 --> 00:32:28,655 He injected himself with a plasmid 667 00:32:28,696 --> 00:32:32,325 containing a CRISPR'd myostatin knockout 668 00:32:32,367 --> 00:32:34,327 just to see what would happen. 669 00:32:34,369 --> 00:32:41,334 [typing] 670 00:32:43,378 --> 00:32:46,422 [Josiah Zayner] Ooh. Hurts a lot more going in. 671 00:32:48,716 --> 00:32:50,343 All right, there we go. 672 00:32:50,385 --> 00:32:52,679 [laughing and clapping] 673 00:32:56,057 --> 00:32:58,351 [Alex Pearlman] This is what people were really afraid of, 674 00:32:58,393 --> 00:33:01,270 was like, "What if, because CRISPR is so easy to use, 675 00:33:01,312 --> 00:33:03,481 people just start using it on themselves?" 676 00:33:03,523 --> 00:33:06,317 And then it was like, "Well, there it is. 677 00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:08,486 People are gonna use it on themselves." 678 00:33:08,528 --> 00:33:11,489 The question isn't about safety necessarily. 679 00:33:11,531 --> 00:33:14,325 The question I think is more about human lives. 680 00:33:14,367 --> 00:33:16,202 There are so many people 681 00:33:16,244 --> 00:33:17,704 who are suffering and dying right now 682 00:33:17,745 --> 00:33:19,872 because they can't get the medical treatments 683 00:33:19,914 --> 00:33:22,917 that they need, because regulation, the FDA. 684 00:33:24,419 --> 00:33:27,380 [Mac Davis] It's already possible to contract out genes 685 00:33:27,422 --> 00:33:30,550 to be made for you, and you can put them in your body. 686 00:33:30,591 --> 00:33:32,218 It's just the way it is. 687 00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:36,389 And, uh, it's gonna take some time 688 00:33:36,431 --> 00:33:37,890 for people to understand that. 689 00:33:37,932 --> 00:33:39,892 [glass clinking] 690 00:33:39,934 --> 00:33:42,228 [Walter Patterson] In the same way that man found 691 00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:45,898 the power within an atom, 692 00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:49,944 he will start to change himself. 693 00:33:49,986 --> 00:33:54,073 He will start to rid himself of the sad situations 694 00:33:54,115 --> 00:33:57,076 we have all been accustomed to within this life. 695 00:33:57,118 --> 00:34:02,373 Disease, sickness, feebleness, and old age. 696 00:34:02,415 --> 00:34:05,918 These are all things that are biological issues. 697 00:34:07,754 --> 00:34:11,382 [Gabriel Licina] The fairy tale of becoming a better person, 698 00:34:11,424 --> 00:34:13,384 that's the biohacking thing. 699 00:34:13,426 --> 00:34:15,386 You're better, faster, stronger. 700 00:34:15,428 --> 00:34:16,387 [reverberating sound] 701 00:34:16,429 --> 00:34:17,513 Right? 702 00:34:17,555 --> 00:34:19,557 We want it. We want that thing. 703 00:34:19,599 --> 00:34:21,225 It doesn't mean that we're opportunistic 704 00:34:21,267 --> 00:34:24,103 for trying to not be miserable. 705 00:34:24,145 --> 00:34:28,775 Desperate animals do desperate shit. 706 00:34:28,816 --> 00:34:30,777 [Tristan Roberts] I think we really can't wait 707 00:34:30,818 --> 00:34:32,278 for the established players 708 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,615 who are making huge amounts of money 709 00:34:35,656 --> 00:34:37,784 from treating HIV 710 00:34:37,825 --> 00:34:40,453 to develop an actual cure for HIV. 711 00:34:40,495 --> 00:34:44,457 [traffic sounds] 712 00:34:44,499 --> 00:34:48,461 [traffic sounds] 713 00:34:53,508 --> 00:34:54,967 I'm Tristan Roberts. 714 00:34:55,009 --> 00:34:57,011 I was a junior in college 715 00:34:57,053 --> 00:35:00,723 when I tested positive for HIV. 716 00:35:03,017 --> 00:35:05,269 Conventional medication for HIV 717 00:35:05,311 --> 00:35:08,439 will run you around $20,000 per year 718 00:35:08,481 --> 00:35:09,732 in the United States, 719 00:35:09,774 --> 00:35:12,443 which just pretty much means that you're 720 00:35:12,485 --> 00:35:15,446 beholden to someone to pay for your stuff, 721 00:35:15,488 --> 00:35:19,283 whether it be having to stick with your employer, 722 00:35:19,325 --> 00:35:21,285 being terrified of leaving. 723 00:35:21,327 --> 00:35:23,162 They've got you by the balls. 724 00:35:23,204 --> 00:35:26,165 It breeds compliance with those systems. 725 00:35:26,207 --> 00:35:28,793 And it further perpetuates the problem. 726 00:35:28,835 --> 00:35:31,504 The end goal is to make this stuff affordable, 727 00:35:31,546 --> 00:35:33,840 where you can buy this for a few dollars 728 00:35:33,881 --> 00:35:35,675 rather than thousands of dollars, 729 00:35:35,716 --> 00:35:37,677 and have it be treated once, 730 00:35:37,718 --> 00:35:41,055 and be good for six months, rather than a few days. 731 00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:43,349 [Aaron Traywick] What's up, man? 732 00:35:43,391 --> 00:35:44,851 Nice to meet you in person. Hey. 733 00:35:44,892 --> 00:35:46,853 - Hey, Aaron. - How are you? 734 00:35:46,894 --> 00:35:49,355 - [inaudible] - Traffic was terrible. 735 00:35:49,397 --> 00:35:51,023 [Tristan] The person who connected me with Aaron 736 00:35:51,065 --> 00:35:55,361 knew that he was working on some sort of HIV gene therapy. 737 00:35:55,403 --> 00:35:59,198 He knew that I had HIV, and that I wasn't on medication, 738 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,409 and that my risk tolerance is a bit higher 739 00:36:01,450 --> 00:36:02,869 than most of the population. 740 00:36:04,537 --> 00:36:06,164 He spoke of the success he had had 741 00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:09,041 with the fertility treatment, Inovium. 742 00:36:09,083 --> 00:36:11,043 [Aaron Traywick] Women are constantly being told 743 00:36:11,085 --> 00:36:13,004 that they're running out of time to give birth 744 00:36:13,045 --> 00:36:14,213 with their own eggs. 745 00:36:14,255 --> 00:36:16,507 But realistically and scientifically, 746 00:36:16,549 --> 00:36:18,009 that's just not the case. 747 00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:19,677 Why look to donor embryos 748 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,679 when we can use your own genetic material 749 00:36:21,721 --> 00:36:24,223 to help you give birth with your own children? 750 00:36:25,766 --> 00:36:27,518 [Tristan Roberts] What really blew my mind was that 751 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,187 some of them were even post-menopausal, 752 00:36:29,228 --> 00:36:31,522 and they were able to conceive of children. 753 00:36:31,564 --> 00:36:33,524 And I was just fascinated by people 754 00:36:33,566 --> 00:36:37,403 who were, like, not stuck to the status quo. 755 00:36:37,445 --> 00:36:41,449 Aaron didn't ask why, he asked why not. 756 00:36:42,617 --> 00:36:44,035 So I was like, 757 00:36:44,076 --> 00:36:45,912 "Yeah, this guy is like actually onto, like, something." 758 00:36:45,953 --> 00:36:47,580 Tristan Roberts: Do you have a car? 759 00:36:47,622 --> 00:36:49,081 Aaron Traywick: I do Uber. 760 00:36:49,123 --> 00:36:50,750 [indistinct chatter] 761 00:36:50,791 --> 00:36:52,919 [Tristan] We had a really good walk and talk. 762 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,587 And I agreed that, you know, 763 00:36:54,629 --> 00:36:58,591 if they were able to develop a gene therapy, 764 00:36:58,633 --> 00:37:00,426 I would probably be down to test it out. 765 00:37:04,889 --> 00:37:06,349 [Mac Davis] I met Tristan. 766 00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:08,851 We really connected on our sense of spirituality, 767 00:37:08,893 --> 00:37:11,771 our relationship with activism. 768 00:37:13,272 --> 00:37:17,944 I had been trying to figure out solutions for society, 769 00:37:17,985 --> 00:37:22,573 knowing that it was possible for more people 770 00:37:22,615 --> 00:37:26,577 to receive an adequate standard of care. 771 00:37:26,619 --> 00:37:28,246 Um, He told me, 772 00:37:28,287 --> 00:37:31,749 "I've got a group of people who also had that idea. 773 00:37:31,791 --> 00:37:36,462 Why don't you join our weekly discussion?" 774 00:37:36,504 --> 00:37:39,465 And that was the Ascendance group. 775 00:37:40,967 --> 00:37:42,301 [Aaron Traywick] A lot of our team branched off 776 00:37:42,343 --> 00:37:44,804 to form this company, Ascendance Biomedical, 777 00:37:44,845 --> 00:37:46,806 so that we could tackle breakthrough treatments 778 00:37:46,847 --> 00:37:48,474 that we felt we could bring to market, 779 00:37:48,516 --> 00:37:50,977 and to the individual who wanted them, 780 00:37:51,018 --> 00:37:52,812 in a much more expeditious way 781 00:37:52,853 --> 00:37:55,856 than the standard FDA clinical trial processes. 782 00:37:58,025 --> 00:37:59,485 [Mac Davis] More than anything, 783 00:37:59,527 --> 00:38:04,740 I think I wanted to see the HIV therapy happen. 784 00:38:04,782 --> 00:38:08,577 I talked to Aaron on the phone about what the plan was, 785 00:38:08,619 --> 00:38:13,291 and he sounded very committed, very motivated, 786 00:38:13,332 --> 00:38:18,004 very visionary in terms of where he saw the project going. 787 00:38:18,838 --> 00:38:21,632 If I have HIV, 788 00:38:21,674 --> 00:38:26,637 and I go and I get tested on a weekly basis for HIV, 789 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:31,183 and I'm taking HAART, antiretrovirals, 790 00:38:31,225 --> 00:38:33,311 the common treatment for HIV, 791 00:38:33,352 --> 00:38:36,480 the insurance provider can look at my blood test data 792 00:38:36,522 --> 00:38:39,817 and they can say, "Okay, the HIV level, 793 00:38:39,859 --> 00:38:43,154 the HIV's still there, but it's at a manageable level." 794 00:38:43,195 --> 00:38:44,655 And we can see that 795 00:38:44,697 --> 00:38:46,824 if the person gets off the antiretrovirals, 796 00:38:46,866 --> 00:38:48,159 it'll go back up. 797 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,703 So the government will keep paying the company, 798 00:38:50,745 --> 00:38:53,039 the insurance providers will keep paying the company, 799 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,710 to keep the patient sick. 800 00:38:57,752 --> 00:39:01,213 And there is no incentivization structure 801 00:39:01,255 --> 00:39:03,466 set up for cures. 802 00:39:17,688 --> 00:39:19,732 [Walter Patterson] If we start out with something, 803 00:39:21,025 --> 00:39:23,694 I'm just going to show you, just a small, 804 00:39:23,736 --> 00:39:29,700 and this is just a small vial of the N6, um, you know, sample. 805 00:39:29,742 --> 00:39:32,536 [Tristan Roberts] There's an antibody called N6, 806 00:39:32,578 --> 00:39:34,872 which has been studied by the National Institute of Health. 807 00:39:34,914 --> 00:39:37,249 It destroys most HIV. 808 00:39:37,291 --> 00:39:42,463 Like 98.5% of all strains of HIV are destroyed. 809 00:39:44,090 --> 00:39:47,551 [Mac Davis] It was November of 2016 that the NIH published 810 00:39:47,593 --> 00:39:54,725 the discovery of finding a human that had the most effective, 811 00:39:54,767 --> 00:39:56,727 broadly neutralizing antibody, 812 00:39:56,769 --> 00:39:59,939 or naturally-derived immunity to HIV. 813 00:39:59,980 --> 00:40:02,274 And not only did they find this person, 814 00:40:02,316 --> 00:40:06,112 but they actually identified exactly what gene he had 815 00:40:06,153 --> 00:40:07,988 that allowed him to do that. 816 00:40:09,490 --> 00:40:12,618 Because of that, what we can do is we can take that gene, 817 00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:16,455 or that information that's necessary for defeating HIV, 818 00:40:16,497 --> 00:40:18,499 and put it into another person. 819 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,128 In the circulatory system, you have the little guard cells. 820 00:40:22,169 --> 00:40:24,130 They kill baddies, like foreign invaders, 821 00:40:24,171 --> 00:40:25,798 and these are called white blood cells. 822 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,803 Now, the virus HIV attacks these white blood cells. 823 00:40:30,845 --> 00:40:32,346 And so eventually over time, 824 00:40:32,388 --> 00:40:34,056 this causes the thing called AIDS. 825 00:40:35,057 --> 00:40:37,351 Well, if we inject a minicircle 826 00:40:37,393 --> 00:40:39,311 with the special transfection agent, 827 00:40:39,353 --> 00:40:41,313 a magical thing starts to happen. 828 00:40:41,355 --> 00:40:44,650 The DNA begins to produce N6. 829 00:40:44,692 --> 00:40:49,655 And N6 will bind to 97% to 98% of the HIV viruses. 830 00:40:49,697 --> 00:40:52,825 The hope is to kill off the viral load, 831 00:40:52,867 --> 00:40:56,203 and thereby eventually allowing 832 00:40:56,245 --> 00:41:00,833 normal function to return, as the white blood cells 833 00:41:00,875 --> 00:41:03,627 now are able to go without getting killed off. 834 00:41:03,669 --> 00:41:06,839 [typing] 835 00:41:06,881 --> 00:41:08,340 [Gabriel Licina] Tristan sends me this paper. 836 00:41:08,382 --> 00:41:10,509 He's like, "Hey, does this research seem legit? 837 00:41:10,551 --> 00:41:12,511 I need a science person to look at this." 838 00:41:12,553 --> 00:41:14,013 And I was, "What's up?" 839 00:41:14,054 --> 00:41:15,431 He's like, "Oh, top-secret project." 840 00:41:15,473 --> 00:41:19,185 It's like, "Cool, top-secret project, that's fine." 841 00:41:21,896 --> 00:41:24,523 And I was like, "Yeah, this is pretty legit." 842 00:41:26,567 --> 00:41:28,694 [Mac Davis] What we did as a team 843 00:41:28,736 --> 00:41:32,364 was developed a delivery mechanism 844 00:41:32,406 --> 00:41:36,035 for adding that gene to a persons body. 845 00:41:36,076 --> 00:41:40,080 [dogs barking] 846 00:41:40,122 --> 00:41:42,875 [dogs barking] 847 00:41:42,917 --> 00:41:45,294 [David Ishee] N6 was built on my system. 848 00:41:47,087 --> 00:41:51,800 I developed a vector and a protocol for follistatin. 849 00:41:53,469 --> 00:41:55,387 And I developed it in such a way 850 00:41:55,429 --> 00:41:57,056 that it could be applied to different things. 851 00:41:57,097 --> 00:41:58,766 So if you wanted to pull out follistatin 852 00:41:58,807 --> 00:42:01,519 and put in the N6 antibody, you can do that. 853 00:42:03,896 --> 00:42:06,774 I forced Ascendance to do a lot of careful testing. 854 00:42:07,942 --> 00:42:09,693 Luckily, Aaron would listen to me. 855 00:42:09,735 --> 00:42:12,404 So it was produced in a petri dish. 856 00:42:12,446 --> 00:42:14,406 N6 was produced by the vector, 857 00:42:14,448 --> 00:42:16,909 uh, and then tested that it binds HIV. 858 00:42:16,951 --> 00:42:20,913 [Tristan Roberts] I got just a picture of some test tubes 859 00:42:20,955 --> 00:42:22,206 from David Ishee. 860 00:42:22,248 --> 00:42:24,917 No, no caption, it's just, just test tubes. 861 00:42:24,959 --> 00:42:27,253 And that was his way of letting me know that, 862 00:42:27,294 --> 00:42:28,420 you know, it's ready. 863 00:42:35,469 --> 00:42:36,595 [Interviewer] You excited? 864 00:42:36,637 --> 00:42:37,930 [Tristan Roberts] Um, it's been, 865 00:42:37,972 --> 00:42:39,265 I've been waiting for this for like six months. 866 00:42:39,306 --> 00:42:41,433 So yeah, I'm pretty ready. 867 00:42:41,475 --> 00:42:43,102 Live from Washington, D.C., 868 00:42:43,143 --> 00:42:47,606 the world's first patient zero testing of an HIV cure, 869 00:42:47,648 --> 00:42:49,942 using gene therapy technology. 870 00:42:53,988 --> 00:42:58,617 Fill this sucker. There we go. 871 00:42:58,659 --> 00:43:00,286 [David Ishee] I tested everything 872 00:43:00,327 --> 00:43:02,746 and I prepped everything that he used. 873 00:43:02,788 --> 00:43:06,083 We had a long conversation and I tried to make it clear 874 00:43:06,125 --> 00:43:08,252 what the potential risks were. 875 00:43:08,294 --> 00:43:11,922 [Aaron Traywick] So you insert the needle from the side. 876 00:43:11,964 --> 00:43:13,591 Okay, where it's nice and floofy. 877 00:43:13,632 --> 00:43:14,925 [Aaron] Mm-hmm. 878 00:43:14,967 --> 00:43:17,094 And then once you're, once you're in there, 879 00:43:17,136 --> 00:43:19,805 you can let go of the skin. Right? 880 00:43:19,847 --> 00:43:20,973 So you got to pull. 881 00:43:21,015 --> 00:43:22,057 [Mac Davis] Pinch and pull. 882 00:43:22,099 --> 00:43:23,142 [Tristan Roberts] Kinda right there. 883 00:43:23,183 --> 00:43:24,476 [Mac Davis] Yeah anywhere in there 884 00:43:24,518 --> 00:43:26,812 [Aaron Traywick] We do not advise that anyone 885 00:43:26,854 --> 00:43:29,148 watching this video do what is about to be done here. 886 00:43:29,189 --> 00:43:32,651 Um, these compounds are not for human consumption. 887 00:43:32,693 --> 00:43:34,987 They are for research purposes only. 888 00:43:35,029 --> 00:43:37,656 Tristan Roberts is completely within his rights, 889 00:43:37,698 --> 00:43:42,161 according to the FDA, and the rule of law in this nation, 890 00:43:42,202 --> 00:43:44,830 to self-experiment in any way 891 00:43:44,872 --> 00:43:47,875 that he deems medically appropriate. 892 00:43:50,044 --> 00:43:52,004 [Tristan] So I want to dedicate this 893 00:43:52,046 --> 00:43:54,006 to all the people who have died 894 00:43:54,048 --> 00:43:56,175 while not being able to access treatment, 895 00:43:56,216 --> 00:43:58,761 even though those treatments were available. 896 00:44:01,055 --> 00:44:02,806 [Interviewer] How are you feeling? 897 00:44:02,848 --> 00:44:05,976 Pretty jazzed. [laughs] 898 00:44:06,018 --> 00:44:07,603 [all laughing] 899 00:44:07,645 --> 00:44:10,814 [Aaron Traywick] We're just gonna have to show the world 900 00:44:10,856 --> 00:44:14,026 what radical gene therapy technology can do 901 00:44:14,068 --> 00:44:17,154 to help people take the health of their lives 902 00:44:17,196 --> 00:44:18,656 into their own hands. 903 00:44:18,697 --> 00:44:23,661 The N6 will be the frontline treatment for curing AIDS, 904 00:44:23,702 --> 00:44:26,372 and for ending AIDS. 905 00:44:26,413 --> 00:44:28,040 suspenseful music 906 00:44:28,082 --> 00:44:30,209 [Michael Henderson] I put him on a pedestal. 907 00:44:30,250 --> 00:44:32,378 I was like, "Oh my God, this is amazing, 908 00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:33,545 here's a guy who's, like, 909 00:44:33,587 --> 00:44:35,255 using their bodies as a laboratory." 910 00:44:36,924 --> 00:44:40,386 Tristan's name would come up in conversations all the time. 911 00:44:40,427 --> 00:44:42,888 We watched Dallas Buyers Club. 912 00:44:42,930 --> 00:44:44,556 You know, there were allusions 913 00:44:44,598 --> 00:44:46,892 to the HIV positive community 914 00:44:46,934 --> 00:44:50,062 that were seeking alternative treatments 915 00:44:50,104 --> 00:44:52,106 to find a cure, change their lives. 916 00:44:53,732 --> 00:44:55,067 [Tristan Roberts] Yes, it, yeah, it was just an hour ago. 917 00:44:55,109 --> 00:44:57,069 Um, I feel a good sense of relief. 918 00:44:57,111 --> 00:44:58,570 Like, there was a lot of build-up. 919 00:44:58,612 --> 00:44:59,905 This has been, like, 920 00:44:59,947 --> 00:45:03,033 in planning for, like, uh, six, six months, 921 00:45:03,075 --> 00:45:05,244 when I first heard that this was even a possibility. 922 00:45:05,285 --> 00:45:09,581 And it's sometimes hard to believe that it's real. 923 00:45:09,623 --> 00:45:12,543 Everybody I've met that this has been explained to 924 00:45:12,584 --> 00:45:15,212 told me, "That was really courageous." 925 00:45:15,254 --> 00:45:18,382 And Tristan is a little bit of a hero in their eyes. 926 00:45:18,424 --> 00:45:22,386 He was taking responsibility for his illness, 927 00:45:22,428 --> 00:45:26,724 not just letting a doctor handle it, or the government, 928 00:45:26,765 --> 00:45:30,060 or a pharmaceutical company. 929 00:45:30,102 --> 00:45:31,395 Him injecting himself 930 00:45:31,437 --> 00:45:34,606 I see as a statement of patient empowerment, 931 00:45:34,648 --> 00:45:36,984 and of human empowerment. 932 00:45:38,485 --> 00:45:40,279 [Tristan Roberts] There was a wide range of reactions 933 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,948 to that initial injection. 934 00:45:42,990 --> 00:45:45,451 There was definitely a fair amount of criticism, 935 00:45:45,492 --> 00:45:50,122 and I don't think most of it was warranted. 936 00:45:50,164 --> 00:45:53,125 But at the same time, people who are established 937 00:45:53,167 --> 00:45:55,294 in the existing biomedical paradigm 938 00:45:55,335 --> 00:45:58,630 are, of course, going to support the system 939 00:45:58,672 --> 00:46:00,466 that butters their bread. 940 00:46:00,507 --> 00:46:03,218 So, nothing too surprising. 941 00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:24,114 [indistinct chatter] 942 00:46:24,156 --> 00:46:26,450 [David Sun Kong] The question that I think 943 00:46:26,492 --> 00:46:28,452 has been on a lot of people's minds 944 00:46:28,494 --> 00:46:30,120 which connects to the New York Times article, 945 00:46:30,162 --> 00:46:31,955 the quote from you in the article was, 946 00:46:31,997 --> 00:46:33,665 if they're willing to inject themselves with hormones 947 00:46:33,707 --> 00:46:35,793 to make them, their muscles bigger, you can imagine 948 00:46:35,834 --> 00:46:37,961 they'd be willing to test more powerful things. 949 00:46:38,003 --> 00:46:39,171 Anyone who does synthetic biology 950 00:46:39,213 --> 00:46:40,798 should be under surveillance, 951 00:46:40,839 --> 00:46:42,674 and anyone who does it without a license should be suspect. 952 00:46:42,716 --> 00:46:44,134 Yeah. 953 00:46:44,176 --> 00:46:46,011 Again, I wasn't trying to win a popularity contest. 954 00:46:46,053 --> 00:46:48,180 That was aimed at academia. 955 00:46:48,222 --> 00:46:49,431 I think the academics 956 00:46:49,473 --> 00:46:51,850 are the most dangerous part of our society. 957 00:46:51,892 --> 00:46:54,186 [general laughter] 958 00:46:54,228 --> 00:46:55,479 [George Church] Yay. 959 00:46:55,521 --> 00:46:57,689 [Woman] Yes. Disgruntled post-docs. [laughs] 960 00:46:57,731 --> 00:47:00,192 [general laughter] 961 00:47:00,234 --> 00:47:02,444 [George Church] You can't really protect yourself 962 00:47:02,486 --> 00:47:05,447 by pushing down the knowledge. 963 00:47:05,489 --> 00:47:06,949 You can't hide the knowledge. 964 00:47:06,990 --> 00:47:07,950 [laughing] 965 00:47:07,991 --> 00:47:09,284 We have this little problem 966 00:47:09,326 --> 00:47:10,661 called intellectual property law. 967 00:47:10,702 --> 00:47:13,163 [George Church] What you need to do is to have 968 00:47:13,205 --> 00:47:15,666 as large a fraction of the population as possible 969 00:47:15,707 --> 00:47:17,501 watching out for people 970 00:47:17,543 --> 00:47:19,169 that are talking or doing something 971 00:47:19,211 --> 00:47:20,379 that they think is questionable. 972 00:47:20,420 --> 00:47:22,339 If you see something, say something. 973 00:47:22,381 --> 00:47:25,717 We need to create that culture of surveillance. 974 00:47:37,771 --> 00:47:39,731 [George Church] It is technically illegal 975 00:47:39,773 --> 00:47:42,401 to experiment on anybody, including yourself. 976 00:47:45,279 --> 00:47:47,072 In practice, it's rarely enforced 977 00:47:47,114 --> 00:47:50,576 unless you're selling the drug and labeling it, 978 00:47:50,617 --> 00:47:54,079 This will add years to your life. 979 00:47:54,121 --> 00:47:57,583 I think there's risks at all levels, 980 00:47:57,624 --> 00:48:00,586 whether it's an individual, whether it's a small team, 981 00:48:00,627 --> 00:48:02,129 whether it's in a garage, 982 00:48:02,170 --> 00:48:04,506 or whether it's in a government facility 983 00:48:04,548 --> 00:48:06,508 that's super secure. 984 00:48:06,550 --> 00:48:11,179 That whole spectrum could produce a bio-weapon. 985 00:48:11,221 --> 00:48:14,182 And partly, it's more dangerous than 986 00:48:14,224 --> 00:48:16,184 nuclear weapons because 987 00:48:16,226 --> 00:48:18,186 it's so much easier and cheaper. 988 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,783 [Edward You] The Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate 989 00:48:31,825 --> 00:48:34,578 came into fruition after the 9/11 attacks. 990 00:48:34,620 --> 00:48:36,413 A month after that horrible event, 991 00:48:36,455 --> 00:48:39,416 we were actually hit with then the Anthrax mailings. 992 00:48:39,458 --> 00:48:42,419 And our primary mission is one of prevention. 993 00:48:42,461 --> 00:48:43,712 So, how do we prevent 994 00:48:43,754 --> 00:48:46,590 not only another 9/11 from happening again, 995 00:48:46,632 --> 00:48:49,259 but in particular, how do you stop an adversary 996 00:48:49,301 --> 00:48:51,803 or someone acquiring, developing, or actually using 997 00:48:51,845 --> 00:48:53,513 a weapon of mass destruction? 998 00:48:55,182 --> 00:48:57,976 I oversee programs looking at biosecurity, 999 00:48:58,018 --> 00:49:01,313 and really trying to ensure and prevent 1000 00:49:01,355 --> 00:49:03,732 the misuse or exploitation of biology. 1001 00:49:03,774 --> 00:49:07,069 [audience applauding] 1002 00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:08,278 [Man] Ed, come here for a second. 1003 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,405 Cross your arms, look serious. 1004 00:49:10,447 --> 00:49:11,406 Edward You: All right 1005 00:49:11,448 --> 00:49:14,242 [Man] What do you think? Yes? Yes. 1006 00:49:14,284 --> 00:49:17,579 [audience applauding] 1007 00:49:17,621 --> 00:49:20,082 So why the FBI? Why are we here today? 1008 00:49:20,123 --> 00:49:22,584 WMD Coordinators are special agents. 1009 00:49:22,626 --> 00:49:25,462 These are men and women that are trained in chemical, 1010 00:49:25,504 --> 00:49:28,632 biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive matters. 1011 00:49:28,674 --> 00:49:31,134 There's at least one of these individuals stationed 1012 00:49:31,176 --> 00:49:34,638 in each of our 56 field offices across the U.S. 1013 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,642 From the FBI's standpoint, we look at biology, 1014 00:49:38,684 --> 00:49:40,310 and even the biohacker community, 1015 00:49:40,352 --> 00:49:44,147 as very important areas of innovation, 1016 00:49:44,189 --> 00:49:46,525 of new applications. 1017 00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:49,319 And with that, we want to make sure 1018 00:49:49,361 --> 00:49:51,154 that we protect that. 1019 00:49:51,196 --> 00:49:52,531 We are meeting our mission 1020 00:49:52,572 --> 00:49:54,533 and helping the biohacker community 1021 00:49:54,574 --> 00:49:56,493 do their part in protecting science 1022 00:49:56,535 --> 00:49:57,869 and safeguarding it. 1023 00:49:57,911 --> 00:50:00,372 I want you all to think about this for a second. 1024 00:50:00,414 --> 00:50:02,374 So what happens if you're a professor 1025 00:50:02,416 --> 00:50:04,209 or you're a student working in a laboratory, 1026 00:50:04,251 --> 00:50:05,877 and you observe and see something 1027 00:50:05,919 --> 00:50:07,379 that just isn't right? 1028 00:50:07,421 --> 00:50:09,214 Now you have somebody within the FBI. 1029 00:50:09,256 --> 00:50:11,550 You're not calling big FBI, but you're calling, 1030 00:50:11,591 --> 00:50:14,219 "Hey Josh. Not for nothing, but I saw this. 1031 00:50:14,261 --> 00:50:16,221 What do you, what's your take? " 1032 00:50:16,263 --> 00:50:18,974 So, it absolutely is a two-way street. 1033 00:50:20,434 --> 00:50:21,893 What we've actually helped foster 1034 00:50:21,935 --> 00:50:25,397 is a neighborhood watch mentality. 1035 00:50:25,439 --> 00:50:27,899 Because if you think about how the community is growing, 1036 00:50:27,941 --> 00:50:30,402 who's best-positioned to identify 1037 00:50:30,444 --> 00:50:32,404 what's going on in their own community, 1038 00:50:32,446 --> 00:50:35,157 but the, the members of the community themselves. 1039 00:50:40,454 --> 00:50:44,416 suspenseful music 1040 00:50:44,458 --> 00:50:47,252 suspenseful music 1041 00:50:47,294 --> 00:50:48,420 [Patti Zettler] Hey. Hi. [laughs] 1042 00:50:48,462 --> 00:50:49,755 [Tristan Roberts] Hey. 1043 00:50:49,796 --> 00:50:50,964 [Patti Zettler] In general, FDA's authority 1044 00:50:51,006 --> 00:50:52,966 and institutional interests 1045 00:50:53,008 --> 00:50:56,094 lie in addressing public health risks. 1046 00:50:56,136 --> 00:50:58,430 [indistinct chatter] 1047 00:50:58,472 --> 00:50:59,765 One question I had 1048 00:50:59,806 --> 00:51:01,433 when I read about his self-injection is 1049 00:51:01,475 --> 00:51:03,393 "What's the relationship between Tristan 1050 00:51:03,435 --> 00:51:04,644 and Ascendance Bio?" 1051 00:51:06,229 --> 00:51:07,939 When I read more about what Tristan had done, I wondered, 1052 00:51:07,981 --> 00:51:10,942 "Is this someone who is 1053 00:51:10,984 --> 00:51:14,279 engaging in true self-experimentation, 1054 00:51:14,321 --> 00:51:15,614 "I've made this thing for myself 1055 00:51:15,655 --> 00:51:18,450 and I want to see what it does to my body." 1056 00:51:18,492 --> 00:51:19,618 or is there some tie 1057 00:51:19,659 --> 00:51:21,995 to commercialization or distribution? 1058 00:51:23,330 --> 00:51:24,956 The FDA made an announcement 1059 00:51:24,998 --> 00:51:28,668 about the self-administration of gene therapies. 1060 00:51:30,504 --> 00:51:32,798 Any use of gene therapies in humans 1061 00:51:32,839 --> 00:51:34,800 are subject to FDA jurisdiction, 1062 00:51:34,841 --> 00:51:37,302 and the sale of such products 1063 00:51:37,344 --> 00:51:39,304 for editing the genes of humans 1064 00:51:39,346 --> 00:51:41,556 is prohibited without FDA approval. 1065 00:51:43,517 --> 00:51:46,144 Tristan seems to have strongly-held beliefs 1066 00:51:46,186 --> 00:51:48,146 that are driving his decisions. 1067 00:51:48,188 --> 00:51:50,816 This is my data, this is my identity. 1068 00:51:50,857 --> 00:51:53,151 I'm saying that this worked for me personally. 1069 00:51:53,193 --> 00:51:54,486 And my concerns about 1070 00:51:54,528 --> 00:51:57,322 people taking ownership over their health- 1071 00:51:57,364 --> 00:52:00,033 [Patti Zettler] One thing that worries me is 1072 00:52:00,075 --> 00:52:03,286 just because something's dressed up in the terms of 1073 00:52:03,328 --> 00:52:05,455 patient empowerment or consumer empowerment, 1074 00:52:05,497 --> 00:52:07,290 and self-experimentation, 1075 00:52:07,332 --> 00:52:09,626 does not mean that's not what it is, 1076 00:52:09,668 --> 00:52:10,627 and does not mean there's not 1077 00:52:10,669 --> 00:52:12,337 a commercial interest behind it. 1078 00:52:16,550 --> 00:52:18,343 [Aaron Traywick] We're not concerned about the FDA. 1079 00:52:18,385 --> 00:52:19,469 What we're concerned about is 1080 00:52:19,511 --> 00:52:21,346 the FDA not moving in on the areas 1081 00:52:21,388 --> 00:52:23,723 where it should have moved in decades ago. 1082 00:52:25,725 --> 00:52:27,519 Because it's such an easy win for them, 1083 00:52:27,561 --> 00:52:31,940 and, and such an easy win for Americans. 1084 00:52:33,567 --> 00:52:36,027 - How are you doing? - Doing all right. 1085 00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:39,364 [indistinct chatter] 1086 00:52:39,406 --> 00:52:41,700 [Aaron Traywick] We just want people to have the opportunity 1087 00:52:41,741 --> 00:52:46,371 to have access to research compounds that they can use 1088 00:52:46,413 --> 00:52:50,083 for self-guided and self-directed research. 1089 00:52:50,125 --> 00:52:52,460 [Doctor] Deep breath. That's it. 1090 00:52:54,588 --> 00:52:56,381 [ Aaron Traywick] What we saw initially with Tristan 1091 00:52:56,423 --> 00:52:58,091 was a very strong immune response 1092 00:52:58,133 --> 00:53:00,302 for his CD4 and CD8 levels. 1093 00:53:01,928 --> 00:53:03,847 A stronger response indicative of 1094 00:53:03,889 --> 00:53:06,683 positive immune health than he had ever before seen 1095 00:53:06,725 --> 00:53:09,186 in the course of his experience with HIV. 1096 00:53:09,227 --> 00:53:13,857 [indistinct chatter] 1097 00:53:16,735 --> 00:53:17,861 [Tristan Roberts] As an activist, 1098 00:53:17,903 --> 00:53:19,571 it's like I'm pushing the envelope. 1099 00:53:19,613 --> 00:53:21,239 Why aren't we doing this, you know? 1100 00:53:21,281 --> 00:53:25,076 If, if it does end up working, then to some degree 1101 00:53:25,118 --> 00:53:27,412 like, it would validate this entire notion 1102 00:53:27,454 --> 00:53:28,914 that we should have been doing this 1103 00:53:28,955 --> 00:53:30,415 for the last two decades. 1104 00:53:30,457 --> 00:53:32,751 There's, it's inexcusable that we've let people suffer 1105 00:53:32,792 --> 00:53:33,919 from so many different diseases. 1106 00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:38,590 [water bubbling] 1107 00:53:47,474 --> 00:53:49,434 [Aaron Traywick] The vaccine itself is the first application 1108 00:53:49,476 --> 00:53:53,605 of an open access platform for gene therapy delivery 1109 00:53:53,647 --> 00:53:54,940 that we have created. 1110 00:53:54,981 --> 00:53:58,610 Each of our platforms can be characterized, 1111 00:53:58,652 --> 00:54:00,946 if not open source, open access. 1112 00:54:00,987 --> 00:54:03,406 We have our infectious disease platform, 1113 00:54:03,448 --> 00:54:07,410 of which HIV is the first application. 1114 00:54:07,452 --> 00:54:09,412 And we have our genetically-programmed 1115 00:54:09,454 --> 00:54:10,956 nanorobotic platform, 1116 00:54:10,997 --> 00:54:14,292 of which the herpes vaccine is the first application. 1117 00:54:14,334 --> 00:54:18,088 So, the plan is for us to test out the herpes vaccine 1118 00:54:18,129 --> 00:54:22,259 and to confirm that it is safe and effective 1119 00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:25,095 for use as a vaccination against herpes. 1120 00:54:29,015 --> 00:54:32,143 [train wheels squealing] 1121 00:54:34,688 --> 00:54:36,648 electronic music 1122 00:54:36,690 --> 00:54:40,652 [bike tires whirring] 1123 00:54:40,694 --> 00:54:42,654 [Gabriel Licina] So, every person 1124 00:54:42,696 --> 00:54:44,990 that was working for Ascendance 1125 00:54:45,031 --> 00:54:46,658 had, like, a different thing 1126 00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:48,827 that they were passionate about. 1127 00:54:48,868 --> 00:54:50,996 And then it got kind of sucked under the 1128 00:54:51,037 --> 00:54:52,872 Ascendance magic money fountain. 1129 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,335 And so Andreas was very passionate about 1130 00:54:57,377 --> 00:55:00,505 creating a vaccine against herpes. 1131 00:55:00,547 --> 00:55:02,966 [Andreas Stuermer] I read a lot about herpes, 1132 00:55:03,008 --> 00:55:04,801 how it causes side effects 1133 00:55:04,843 --> 00:55:06,219 that most people don't know. 1134 00:55:08,054 --> 00:55:12,976 Like 90% of the age-related blindness, spine disease, 1135 00:55:13,018 --> 00:55:15,520 it even is involved in Alzheimer's. 1136 00:55:15,562 --> 00:55:18,189 It just seems like a very scary virus. 1137 00:55:19,691 --> 00:55:20,734 My goal was basically 1138 00:55:20,775 --> 00:55:22,485 just stopping myself from getting it. 1139 00:55:22,527 --> 00:55:23,653 [Tristan Roberts] [laughing] We're debating 1140 00:55:23,695 --> 00:55:24,863 whether we want to do this 1141 00:55:24,904 --> 00:55:26,197 [Gabriel Licina] Yeah I know, right? 1142 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,658 - [Tristan] Ugh. - [Gabriel] Uh, door. Door. 1143 00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:29,951 [door squeaking closed] 1144 00:55:29,993 --> 00:55:32,495 Gabriel Licina: So, right now, we're about 1145 00:55:32,537 --> 00:55:35,707 this far down on our flow, flow chart 1146 00:55:35,749 --> 00:55:39,210 of working on the, the herpes, uh, prophylactic. 1147 00:55:40,754 --> 00:55:42,714 [Andreas Stuermer] I talked to lots of people, 1148 00:55:42,756 --> 00:55:44,716 and that guy was referring me to Ascendance, 1149 00:55:44,758 --> 00:55:47,218 he said, "You know, you have this project, 1150 00:55:47,260 --> 00:55:49,220 they have the resources, they have the money, 1151 00:55:49,262 --> 00:55:51,056 so they could fund you. 1152 00:55:51,097 --> 00:55:53,892 So between all these things, then you feel confident 1153 00:55:53,933 --> 00:55:57,062 to then move to, like, a stage one clinical study with us. 1154 00:55:57,103 --> 00:55:58,730 Andreas Stuermer: First you have to test it out, 1155 00:55:58,772 --> 00:56:00,732 and then you modify the protocol, 1156 00:56:00,774 --> 00:56:02,609 you see if it works better, test it. 1157 00:56:02,650 --> 00:56:06,404 Yeah, do it, see how it fucks up. One step at a time, dude. 1158 00:56:08,740 --> 00:56:10,533 [Gabriel Licina] Biology is really small. 1159 00:56:10,575 --> 00:56:13,036 So if you say I totally have a thing and then 1160 00:56:13,078 --> 00:56:15,872 you hold up a vial nobody can really look at that 1161 00:56:15,914 --> 00:56:17,582 unless somebody else tests it. 1162 00:56:19,042 --> 00:56:20,251 [Andreas Stuermer] I've always been very supportive 1163 00:56:20,293 --> 00:56:23,546 in giving people access to stuff. 1164 00:56:23,588 --> 00:56:26,216 But it has to be very honest. 1165 00:56:26,257 --> 00:56:28,551 [indistinct chatter] 1166 00:56:28,593 --> 00:56:30,428 This is a very experimental thing, 1167 00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:32,931 and not safe or anything. 1168 00:56:34,099 --> 00:56:35,100 All right. 1169 00:56:36,768 --> 00:56:41,439 [airplane engine whirring] 1170 00:56:41,481 --> 00:56:49,781 electronic music 1171 00:56:49,823 --> 00:56:51,825 [Gabriel Licina] It was so not ready. 1172 00:56:52,826 --> 00:56:55,120 We were in the beginning 1173 00:56:55,161 --> 00:56:56,830 of second party verification. 1174 00:56:58,665 --> 00:57:01,960 So a month before the BDYHAX conference, I said, 1175 00:57:02,001 --> 00:57:06,548 "Look Aaron, we might have something worth testing, 1176 00:57:06,589 --> 00:57:09,384 but don't make a thing out of it. 1177 00:57:09,426 --> 00:57:13,304 We could test it maybe in the hotel room 1178 00:57:13,346 --> 00:57:16,266 with a couple of friends." 1179 00:57:16,307 --> 00:57:17,475 And what does he do? 1180 00:57:18,685 --> 00:57:20,437 He fucking throws a huge chunk of cash 1181 00:57:20,478 --> 00:57:22,439 and gets his name on the banner 1182 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,774 and sponsors part of the conference. 1183 00:57:24,816 --> 00:57:26,359 Tune in on Sunday 1184 00:57:26,401 --> 00:57:30,822 for the first, uh, testing of the, uh, herpes live vaccine, 1185 00:57:30,864 --> 00:57:32,824 3:30 p.m., don't miss it. 1186 00:57:34,659 --> 00:57:35,952 [Adam Traywick] If you have herpes, 1187 00:57:35,994 --> 00:57:37,412 you should be watching this, 1188 00:57:37,454 --> 00:57:39,789 'cause this vaccine is just as applicable as a cure 1189 00:57:39,831 --> 00:57:42,709 as it is for a vaccine. 1190 00:57:42,750 --> 00:57:44,294 [Gabriel Licina] He's talking about 1191 00:57:44,335 --> 00:57:48,006 how he's going to do a live test of this thing on stage. 1192 00:57:48,047 --> 00:57:52,343 And I'm "Dude, Andreas doesn't want to do this thing." 1193 00:57:52,385 --> 00:57:53,845 [chatter] 1194 00:57:53,887 --> 00:57:56,181 [Andreas] Yeah it was really a big surprise for us. 1195 00:57:56,222 --> 00:57:59,017 He said I've got it fixed, don't worry about it. 1196 00:57:59,058 --> 00:58:01,519 And you know, like he's the boss. 1197 00:58:01,561 --> 00:58:03,771 [audience clapping and cheering] 1198 00:58:03,813 --> 00:58:04,772 Thank you. 1199 00:58:04,814 --> 00:58:06,774 [applause] 1200 00:58:06,816 --> 00:58:09,110 Thank you so much for joining us today. 1201 00:58:09,152 --> 00:58:11,321 So, we are Ascendance Biomedical. 1202 00:58:11,362 --> 00:58:14,115 Uh, my name is Aaron Traywick, CEO, 1203 00:58:14,157 --> 00:58:16,784 Andreas Stuermer, lead researcher, 1204 00:58:16,826 --> 00:58:19,829 Machiavelli Davis, production specialist, 1205 00:58:19,871 --> 00:58:23,166 uh, Walter Patterson, production specialist 1206 00:58:23,208 --> 00:58:25,710 and Gabriel Licina, laboratory manager. 1207 00:58:25,752 --> 00:58:28,838 This will be, uh, you know, one of the few live testings 1208 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,049 in the world of gene therapy technologies. 1209 00:58:31,090 --> 00:58:33,343 The most important thing to know about this 1210 00:58:33,384 --> 00:58:35,678 is that this is just the first application 1211 00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,224 of an open access gene therapy delivery system. 1212 00:58:39,265 --> 00:58:42,352 Our genetically-programmed nanorobotic technology 1213 00:58:42,393 --> 00:58:45,021 allows the gene-thetic immunity to bind- 1214 00:58:45,063 --> 00:58:46,689 [Gabriel Licina] He started talking about nano bots 1215 00:58:46,731 --> 00:58:49,025 and then the next step is curing cancer. 1216 00:58:49,067 --> 00:58:51,861 Again, pave the way for our work in cancer, 1217 00:58:51,903 --> 00:58:53,404 which will be the massive breakthroughs 1218 00:58:53,446 --> 00:58:54,864 that we really wanna see. 1219 00:58:54,906 --> 00:58:57,408 So, without further ado, I'll be taking off my pants. 1220 00:58:57,450 --> 00:58:59,077 [audience laughs] 1221 00:58:59,118 --> 00:59:00,078 Intramuscular injection 1222 00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:01,955 is how this has to be performed. 1223 00:59:04,874 --> 00:59:06,501 [Gabriel Licina] I should have just walked away. 1224 00:59:06,543 --> 00:59:08,836 But nobody else knew how to handle the materials, 1225 00:59:08,878 --> 00:59:10,505 and it was happening one way or another. 1226 00:59:10,547 --> 00:59:12,340 [Aaron] Luckily I have herpes. 1227 00:59:12,382 --> 00:59:15,009 I didn't get this from my momma. 1228 00:59:15,051 --> 00:59:17,011 [quiet laughter] 1229 00:59:17,053 --> 00:59:19,264 [Gabriel] At that point, I'm trying to mitigate stupid. 1230 00:59:20,557 --> 00:59:24,852 But the alternative was somebody not knowing 1231 00:59:24,894 --> 00:59:26,187 how to handle the materials, 1232 00:59:26,229 --> 00:59:29,232 also potentially making it more stupid. 1233 00:59:29,274 --> 00:59:30,900 [Aaron] Good to go? 1234 00:59:30,942 --> 00:59:34,070 [Gabriel] So, there's only, like 20 micrograms in there. 1235 00:59:34,112 --> 00:59:36,406 So, it's like really, really freaking small. 1236 00:59:36,447 --> 00:59:37,907 So don't, like, bump it. 1237 00:59:37,949 --> 00:59:39,909 [Aaron] Yeah don't worry. I'm a pro. 1238 00:59:39,951 --> 00:59:43,913 tense music 1239 00:59:43,955 --> 00:59:48,918 [quite audience chatter] 1240 00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,087 [Mac Davis] I think it's all the way down here. 1241 00:59:51,129 --> 00:59:56,926 tense music 1242 00:59:56,968 --> 00:59:58,469 Yeah, yeah. It's down. 1243 00:59:58,511 --> 00:59:59,846 Yeah, that was it. 1244 00:59:59,887 --> 01:00:01,306 [Gabriel Licina] It's just such a small amount 1245 01:00:01,347 --> 01:00:02,307 Huh. 1246 01:00:02,348 --> 01:00:03,766 [Mac] 20 micrograms. 1247 01:00:03,808 --> 01:00:05,518 [Gabriel] 20 micrograms, dude. It's like nothing. 1248 01:00:07,854 --> 01:00:11,316 [Mac] Aaron's performance kind of exemplified 1249 01:00:11,357 --> 01:00:14,485 a lot of things that 1250 01:00:14,527 --> 01:00:18,156 we as a community agreed not to do. 1251 01:00:18,197 --> 01:00:19,991 It's very clear to people 1252 01:00:20,033 --> 01:00:23,494 who have worked in science for a long time 1253 01:00:23,536 --> 01:00:26,831 that even if a project seems like it's almost done, 1254 01:00:26,873 --> 01:00:29,834 sometimes it takes another couple years. 1255 01:00:29,876 --> 01:00:32,670 Wow, science! Very exciting, people. 1256 01:00:32,712 --> 01:00:33,504 [audience applauding] 1257 01:00:33,546 --> 01:00:37,508 [tense music] 1258 01:00:37,550 --> 01:00:39,010 [Alex Pearlman] When Aaron injected himself 1259 01:00:39,052 --> 01:00:42,013 on stage at BDYHAX, I was like 1260 01:00:42,055 --> 01:00:43,431 "This is not good. " 1261 01:00:44,557 --> 01:00:47,852 This was all of a sudden a bad actor 1262 01:00:47,894 --> 01:00:49,145 within the community 1263 01:00:49,187 --> 01:00:55,526 who performed bad science, in a terrible way, 1264 01:00:55,568 --> 01:00:58,529 that was sensationalist and irresponsible. 1265 01:00:58,571 --> 01:01:04,035 And I think all of a sudden, a bunch of heads turned. 1266 01:01:06,037 --> 01:01:07,413 [Gabriel Licina] It was all showmanship. 1267 01:01:09,248 --> 01:01:12,543 In fact, he sent a text to Andreas after the injection, 1268 01:01:12,585 --> 01:01:14,921 going "What did I just inject myself with?" 1269 01:01:16,506 --> 01:01:18,883 [Tristan Roberts] It was pretty clear that he didn't know 1270 01:01:18,925 --> 01:01:20,259 what he was putting into his body. 1271 01:01:22,762 --> 01:01:25,056 Informed consent wasn't there. 1272 01:01:25,098 --> 01:01:28,059 And I think that's a crucial part of self-experimentation, 1273 01:01:28,101 --> 01:01:30,061 is like, at the very least you need to know what, 1274 01:01:30,103 --> 01:01:31,437 what you're putting into your body. 1275 01:01:34,107 --> 01:01:36,067 [Josiah Zayner] Literally, as far as I know, 1276 01:01:36,109 --> 01:01:40,405 the injection either didn't have anything in it, 1277 01:01:40,446 --> 01:01:41,948 it was basically just water, 1278 01:01:41,989 --> 01:01:46,077 or the amount of DNA that he injected was just so minute 1279 01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:48,121 and small that there wouldn't have been any effect 1280 01:01:48,162 --> 01:01:49,247 or anything happen anyway. 1281 01:01:49,288 --> 01:01:50,915 There's a little drop. See the drop? 1282 01:01:50,957 --> 01:01:52,917 [Andreas Stuermer] Yeah, you never get everything out of it. 1283 01:01:52,959 --> 01:01:55,128 [Josiah] You ask any one of those guys who were involved, 1284 01:01:55,169 --> 01:01:56,421 all the ones on-stage with him- 1285 01:01:56,462 --> 01:01:58,923 All right, well you already clapped, so. 1286 01:01:58,965 --> 01:02:00,758 And we're done here, everybody go home. 1287 01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,093 [Josiah Zayner] You ask 'em, 1288 01:02:02,135 --> 01:02:03,553 [indistinct chatter] 1289 01:02:03,594 --> 01:02:05,596 every single one of them will give a different answer. 1290 01:02:05,638 --> 01:02:08,224 Like, how is this gonna contribute to science in any way 1291 01:02:08,266 --> 01:02:10,768 when you guys don't even know what he injected himself with? 1292 01:02:12,103 --> 01:02:13,730 Aaron: Next week, tune in Saturday. 1293 01:02:13,771 --> 01:02:17,442 We'll be filming live the, uh, phase two injection 1294 01:02:17,483 --> 01:02:20,278 of the HIV therapy phase two. 1295 01:02:20,319 --> 01:02:23,781 This will be a 250 to 500 times higher potency 1296 01:02:23,823 --> 01:02:25,450 than the initial safety test. 1297 01:02:25,491 --> 01:02:29,454 Um, and following this, we will be headed to Venezuela, 1298 01:02:29,495 --> 01:02:32,790 where we will be able to deliver this treatment 1299 01:02:32,832 --> 01:02:36,461 to individuals who are dying currently of AIDS and HIV. 1300 01:02:36,502 --> 01:02:38,129 [Dave Lee] This is Aaron Traywick. 1301 01:02:38,171 --> 01:02:41,132 Disturbingly, he told us he plans to bring his drugs 1302 01:02:41,174 --> 01:02:44,135 to AIDS patients in Venezuela. 1303 01:02:44,177 --> 01:02:46,804 All we can do is we can say to these people 1304 01:02:46,846 --> 01:02:51,142 we know that you don't have access to these medications. 1305 01:02:51,184 --> 01:02:53,811 You know these people are desperate. 1306 01:02:53,853 --> 01:02:55,646 You know these people are poor. 1307 01:02:55,688 --> 01:02:57,148 And so you say, 1308 01:02:57,190 --> 01:03:00,151 "Okay, these are the ideal people for us to try 1309 01:03:00,193 --> 01:03:03,613 our untested, unregulated, potentially unsafe drug." 1310 01:03:03,654 --> 01:03:06,115 There is no reason to believe that it isn't safe. 1311 01:03:06,157 --> 01:03:07,492 Obviously that- 1312 01:03:07,533 --> 01:03:09,285 [Dave Lee] There's no reason to believe that it is. 1313 01:03:09,327 --> 01:03:11,287 Just because they're ill, just because they're dying, 1314 01:03:11,329 --> 01:03:13,289 doesn't make them guinea pigs for your- 1315 01:03:13,331 --> 01:03:15,124 We're not talking about them as guinea pigs. 1316 01:03:15,166 --> 01:03:16,459 You can't even test. 1317 01:03:16,501 --> 01:03:18,795 There's not even reagents in that country 1318 01:03:18,836 --> 01:03:21,005 to be able to test whether or not the treatment works. 1319 01:03:21,047 --> 01:03:23,841 All we know is if it works, they don't die. 1320 01:03:23,883 --> 01:03:30,181 [insect noises] 1321 01:03:33,226 --> 01:03:35,520 [snakes jaw cracking] 1322 01:03:37,563 --> 01:03:39,190 [Tristan Roberts] Aaron had set a deadline 1323 01:03:39,232 --> 01:03:41,692 of producing the second version 1324 01:03:41,734 --> 01:03:43,361 of the HIV gene therapy 1325 01:03:43,402 --> 01:03:45,238 for February in 2018. 1326 01:03:46,531 --> 01:03:49,033 And the idea was that we would come together, 1327 01:03:49,075 --> 01:03:53,913 do another injection, produce it for a video. 1328 01:03:56,082 --> 01:03:57,542 So he had invited all these different 1329 01:03:57,583 --> 01:03:59,752 documentary crews there, 1330 01:03:59,794 --> 01:04:01,212 at the same time 1331 01:04:01,254 --> 01:04:02,547 with the hope that we would be 1332 01:04:02,588 --> 01:04:06,175 testing out the next version. 1333 01:04:06,217 --> 01:04:08,344 So not only was it not ready, 1334 01:04:08,386 --> 01:04:09,720 but we were also dealing with 1335 01:04:09,762 --> 01:04:13,349 this organizational meltdown at the same time. 1336 01:04:13,391 --> 01:04:17,103 So it was definitely a media trash fire. 1337 01:04:19,230 --> 01:04:23,234 pulsing music 1338 01:04:29,448 --> 01:04:33,578 [Tristan] One of the main things I wanted to discuss face to face 1339 01:04:33,619 --> 01:04:36,747 when we had most of the team together in Jacksonville 1340 01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:38,749 was to nail down some policies 1341 01:04:38,791 --> 01:04:40,751 about open source and transparency. 1342 01:04:44,130 --> 01:04:46,090 [Tristan] Gabriel was also really concerned 1343 01:04:46,132 --> 01:04:48,593 about Aaron's use of the word "cure". 1344 01:04:48,634 --> 01:04:51,095 We need to be very careful about, like, 1345 01:04:51,137 --> 01:04:52,597 what we're calling these things. 1346 01:04:52,638 --> 01:04:54,265 [indistinct chatter] 1347 01:04:54,307 --> 01:04:55,433 We set the deadline of: 1348 01:04:55,474 --> 01:04:57,602 If you don't talk to us by the time 1349 01:04:57,643 --> 01:04:59,770 when the second injection is supposed to happen, 1350 01:04:59,812 --> 01:05:01,772 then we're going to have a livestream 1351 01:05:01,814 --> 01:05:04,233 and gonna discuss our dirty laundry. 1352 01:05:04,275 --> 01:05:05,735 [Interviewer] The night before Tristan Roberts 1353 01:05:05,776 --> 01:05:06,944 was supposed to inject himself 1354 01:05:06,986 --> 01:05:08,738 with the second round of HIV therapy, 1355 01:05:08,779 --> 01:05:10,239 we met up with the 1356 01:05:10,281 --> 01:05:11,908 Ascendance Biomedical crew for dinner. 1357 01:05:11,949 --> 01:05:13,784 [Interviewer] It's like you want to make the thing 1358 01:05:13,826 --> 01:05:16,412 so that everyone owns it and you want to own the thing. 1359 01:05:16,454 --> 01:05:18,247 No, I want to make the thing 1360 01:05:18,289 --> 01:05:19,916 so that everybody can benefit from it. 1361 01:05:19,957 --> 01:05:22,793 Whatever gets it to the most people as quickly as possible 1362 01:05:22,835 --> 01:05:24,295 and actually alleviate... 1363 01:05:24,337 --> 01:05:25,588 Well you know the best way to get it to a lot of people? 1364 01:05:25,630 --> 01:05:27,006 Give it away for free. 1365 01:05:27,048 --> 01:05:28,925 And I don't think we've ever seen that open source 1366 01:05:28,966 --> 01:05:30,927 has been able to do that over traditional marketing- 1367 01:05:30,968 --> 01:05:32,094 [Gabriel Licina] Oh wow, really? 1368 01:05:32,136 --> 01:05:34,430 Do you want to talk about Linux or- 1369 01:05:34,472 --> 01:05:36,307 If you give everyone in the entire world 1370 01:05:36,349 --> 01:05:37,975 access to everything that you're doing, 1371 01:05:38,017 --> 01:05:39,810 then you leave the door wide open 1372 01:05:39,852 --> 01:05:42,647 for unsavory and potentially negative players 1373 01:05:42,688 --> 01:05:43,814 to take that technology 1374 01:05:43,856 --> 01:05:45,483 and do things that can hurt themselves, 1375 01:05:45,524 --> 01:05:46,817 and that can hurt other people, 1376 01:05:46,859 --> 01:05:49,028 but ultimately that can hurt the field. 1377 01:05:50,446 --> 01:05:53,658 I personally was, like, really concerned about, uh, 1378 01:05:53,699 --> 01:05:55,660 Aaron's commitment to being open source. 1379 01:05:55,701 --> 01:05:58,162 I was working on the website and I said, 1380 01:05:58,204 --> 01:05:59,497 "All right, well, we need to say 1381 01:05:59,538 --> 01:06:01,499 at what point does it become open source?" 1382 01:06:01,540 --> 01:06:04,251 And he told me, and I quote, 1383 01:06:04,293 --> 01:06:08,631 Open source appears to be an effective marketing strategy. 1384 01:06:08,673 --> 01:06:12,009 And that was when I was just like, "Oh god, like, what? 1385 01:06:12,051 --> 01:06:15,471 This guy is just, just, just making shit up." 1386 01:06:15,513 --> 01:06:17,306 Let's say that you, 1387 01:06:17,348 --> 01:06:19,642 let's say that your treatment works, right, for you. 1388 01:06:19,684 --> 01:06:20,601 [Tristan] Mm-hmm 1389 01:06:20,643 --> 01:06:23,479 Who then has control over that? 1390 01:06:23,521 --> 01:06:26,816 Well, ultimately, it depends on the clinical development 1391 01:06:26,857 --> 01:06:28,985 and how were able to partner with nonprofits, 1392 01:06:29,026 --> 01:06:31,320 NGOs, and hospital networks around the world. 1393 01:06:31,362 --> 01:06:32,613 He's trying to say he does. 1394 01:06:32,655 --> 01:06:35,700 The only thing that Im saying here is that, um, 1395 01:06:35,741 --> 01:06:37,660 it requires a lot of different partnerships 1396 01:06:37,702 --> 01:06:39,495 outside of our group. And so... 1397 01:06:39,537 --> 01:06:40,955 [Gabriel Licina] [laughs] 1398 01:06:40,997 --> 01:06:42,957 [Aaron] Are you going to be able to distribute it? 1399 01:06:42,999 --> 01:06:44,875 Are you going to be the one who negotiates 1400 01:06:44,917 --> 01:06:46,877 with the governments and the embassies and makes sure 1401 01:06:46,919 --> 01:06:48,546 that they can actually go into the countries? 1402 01:06:48,587 --> 01:06:50,715 [Gabriel Licina] I've done that before. I, I've done that. 1403 01:06:50,756 --> 01:06:52,216 But you are assuming executive control. 1404 01:06:52,258 --> 01:06:55,386 I've not heard any offers to get involved in those processes 1405 01:06:55,428 --> 01:06:56,971 by anyone else. 1406 01:06:57,013 --> 01:07:00,933 [Gabriel] Just fun story. Um, I'll just not do lab work. 1407 01:07:02,268 --> 01:07:03,352 We're working through it. 1408 01:07:03,394 --> 01:07:05,396 He's like, "We're working things out." 1409 01:07:06,689 --> 01:07:09,483 He stands up and he looks at his phone 1410 01:07:09,525 --> 01:07:11,402 and then he just walks away from the table. 1411 01:07:12,903 --> 01:07:16,699 Aaron did not really realize that we're anarchists 1412 01:07:16,741 --> 01:07:18,701 and we don't really take kindly to 1413 01:07:18,743 --> 01:07:20,619 [laughs] that sort of, like, action. 1414 01:07:22,246 --> 01:07:24,707 [Gabriel Licina] So the next day, I have to go to work. 1415 01:07:24,749 --> 01:07:27,376 And I suddenly get, like, 1416 01:07:27,418 --> 01:07:30,921 16 text messages from Justin at the lab. 1417 01:07:30,963 --> 01:07:34,133 They're like, "I'm outside, I'm stuck outside." 1418 01:07:35,426 --> 01:07:39,221 Because Aaron was the signer of the lease, 1419 01:07:39,263 --> 01:07:40,723 he showed up, 1420 01:07:40,765 --> 01:07:43,726 and then he had someone come with a power drill, 1421 01:07:43,768 --> 01:07:46,395 and change the locks on all the doors. 1422 01:07:51,484 --> 01:07:54,445 [Aaron Traywick] Gabriel, who served as our lab manager, 1423 01:07:54,487 --> 01:07:56,947 and Justin, who served as the laboratory technician, 1424 01:07:56,989 --> 01:08:00,951 have been effectively, um, kicked out of the lab space, 1425 01:08:00,993 --> 01:08:02,995 and the locks have been changed. 1426 01:08:04,747 --> 01:08:05,998 [Tristan Roberts] Yesterday, 1427 01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,542 when we're supposed to have the livestream, 1428 01:08:08,584 --> 01:08:10,628 he locks us out of the lab. 1429 01:08:12,254 --> 01:08:15,883 And this is like a microcosm of the bigger picture, right, 1430 01:08:15,925 --> 01:08:18,385 where, like, the people who are funding it 1431 01:08:18,427 --> 01:08:21,222 have the control over the locks, you know. 1432 01:08:21,263 --> 01:08:24,475 They can just, like, push the researchers physically out. 1433 01:08:26,811 --> 01:08:28,104 [Reporter] A big part of the 1434 01:08:28,145 --> 01:08:29,730 mission of Ascendance Biomedical 1435 01:08:29,772 --> 01:08:31,774 is showing that this kind of research science can happen 1436 01:08:31,816 --> 01:08:34,985 outside of the conventional institutional structures. 1437 01:08:36,445 --> 01:08:38,114 I have to be honest, what we've seen so far this week 1438 01:08:38,155 --> 01:08:40,449 doesn't inspire a ton of confidence. 1439 01:08:40,491 --> 01:08:41,992 Well, the only way that I ever 1440 01:08:42,034 --> 01:08:43,369 want the world to see us 1441 01:08:43,410 --> 01:08:49,667 is as a never-ending fight against these diseases. 1442 01:08:54,338 --> 01:08:56,173 [Tristan Roberts] That night, I asked him, like, 1443 01:08:56,215 --> 01:08:57,341 "Hey, do you need help?" 1444 01:08:57,383 --> 01:08:59,343 And I'm, like, helping him, like, 1445 01:08:59,385 --> 01:09:01,929 dump all of their personal stuff outside of the lab. 1446 01:09:04,473 --> 01:09:07,434 And he can tell that I'm trying to be too nice to them, 1447 01:09:07,476 --> 01:09:09,979 that I was taking their side. 1448 01:09:10,020 --> 01:09:12,606 And that's when we had this sort of like, 1449 01:09:12,648 --> 01:09:18,529 "And you Brutus?" moment, where he felt hurt. 1450 01:09:19,488 --> 01:09:21,073 And he's like, 1451 01:09:21,115 --> 01:09:22,283 "Oh, it's because you've been friends with Gabriel longer. 1452 01:09:22,324 --> 01:09:24,034 That's why you're taking his side." 1453 01:09:25,703 --> 01:09:28,455 And that was just infuriating, for him to not recognize that, 1454 01:09:28,497 --> 01:09:32,042 "No, I, I'm mad because you're not listening. 1455 01:09:32,084 --> 01:09:34,044 You're not working through these problems. 1456 01:09:34,086 --> 01:09:36,505 You're just ignoring them." 1457 01:09:36,547 --> 01:09:41,510 [ants skittering] 1458 01:09:41,552 --> 01:09:45,848 [traffic noises] 1459 01:09:54,565 --> 01:09:56,525 [Rita Traywick] I remember him telling me 1460 01:09:56,567 --> 01:09:58,194 something that he had a company starting, 1461 01:09:58,235 --> 01:10:00,196 but I couldn't understand what it was, 1462 01:10:00,237 --> 01:10:03,741 'cause, uh, it was just way over my head what he was, 1463 01:10:03,782 --> 01:10:05,409 what he was saying. 1464 01:10:05,451 --> 01:10:07,912 He asked me one time, he said, Well if you could live longer, 1465 01:10:07,953 --> 01:10:10,080 would you, would you want to do that?" 1466 01:10:10,122 --> 01:10:11,582 I said, "Well I don't know, 1467 01:10:11,624 --> 01:10:13,250 it all depended on what kind of health I was in. 1468 01:10:13,292 --> 01:10:16,253 Guess if I was in good health and could do things, yeah." 1469 01:10:19,465 --> 01:10:20,925 He always knew that he was adopted. 1470 01:10:20,966 --> 01:10:23,594 I mean he always heard the word adoption, so he, 1471 01:10:23,636 --> 01:10:26,764 he, we always told him. 1472 01:10:30,309 --> 01:10:31,936 I went to the hospital to get him, 1473 01:10:31,977 --> 01:10:35,272 it seemed like there was a nursery full of newborn babies, 1474 01:10:35,314 --> 01:10:37,608 and he was kind of in the middle by himself, 1475 01:10:37,650 --> 01:10:40,277 I guess because they knew we were going to be picking him up. 1476 01:10:40,319 --> 01:10:42,780 And he had this jet-black hair at the time, 1477 01:10:42,821 --> 01:10:45,741 so he looked like a little orangutan. 1478 01:10:47,284 --> 01:10:49,536 My mama always said he looked like a little old man. 1479 01:10:51,121 --> 01:10:53,624 Then the older he got, the younger looking he got, I guess. 1480 01:10:53,666 --> 01:10:54,833 Woman: Yeah. 1481 01:10:54,875 --> 01:10:57,419 But he was very, very smart, very smart. 1482 01:11:02,508 --> 01:11:03,968 [ Rita Traywick] He was in the gifted class. 1483 01:11:04,009 --> 01:11:06,136 He just liked to learn. 1484 01:11:07,471 --> 01:11:09,056 [Kristen Bennett] That's what set him apart, 1485 01:11:09,098 --> 01:11:11,558 that he was so smart that other kids would pick on that. 1486 01:11:12,768 --> 01:11:13,978 If you're smarter than everybody else, 1487 01:11:14,019 --> 01:11:14,979 they don't like it. 1488 01:11:17,856 --> 01:11:19,650 [Rita Traywick] He was bullied at school. 1489 01:11:19,692 --> 01:11:21,652 I would go up to the school and say, 1490 01:11:21,694 --> 01:11:24,655 "Hey, you know. Oh no, it's just a stage he's going through, 1491 01:11:24,697 --> 01:11:26,490 everything's okay, everything's okay." 1492 01:11:26,532 --> 01:11:29,159 But looking back, he definitely was bullied. 1493 01:11:29,201 --> 01:11:31,996 And I think that was one of the things that made him 1494 01:11:32,037 --> 01:11:34,498 a little bit different from everybody else. 1495 01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:38,002 He would come home from school and go in his room, 1496 01:11:38,043 --> 01:11:41,505 and read his books, read his comic books. 1497 01:11:41,547 --> 01:11:43,841 And you know, I'm sure he was depressed, too. 1498 01:11:43,882 --> 01:11:45,843 And it just kind of scared me that he, 1499 01:11:45,884 --> 01:11:49,305 that he wasn't going to make it. 1500 01:11:50,556 --> 01:11:52,016 I mean I just, I don't know, 1501 01:11:52,057 --> 01:11:54,059 I felt like something was gonna happen to him. 1502 01:11:54,101 --> 01:12:01,442 dissonant music 1503 01:12:03,861 --> 01:12:05,487 [Reporter] Edwina, I want to hear from you. 1504 01:12:05,529 --> 01:12:06,780 [Edwina Rogers] Okay. 1505 01:12:06,822 --> 01:12:08,407 Well, I don't know where the U.S. Government's 1506 01:12:08,449 --> 01:12:10,826 gonna get 150 billion dollars for, and I don't know, he's... 1507 01:12:10,868 --> 01:12:12,369 [fades out] 1508 01:12:12,411 --> 01:12:14,496 [Aaron Traywick] Edwina Rogers, a woman with over 25 years 1509 01:12:14,538 --> 01:12:18,542 of great experience as a professional lobbyist. 1510 01:12:18,584 --> 01:12:20,544 Through our connections, we set about finding 1511 01:12:20,586 --> 01:12:23,881 the chief luminaries in the field of aging research 1512 01:12:23,922 --> 01:12:25,549 and its underlying causes and conditions. 1513 01:12:28,260 --> 01:12:29,720 Edwina Rogers: Aaron did a good job 1514 01:12:29,762 --> 01:12:32,139 of trying to keep people separate. 1515 01:12:33,766 --> 01:12:36,060 He didn't want us to all to be in a room 1516 01:12:36,101 --> 01:12:37,394 talking to each other. 1517 01:12:37,436 --> 01:12:40,064 Because I think he knew if anybody talked to me, 1518 01:12:40,105 --> 01:12:43,442 I would warn them, I would tell them the truth. 1519 01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:49,239 Aaron and I reached out to all the scientists we could find 1520 01:12:49,281 --> 01:12:54,745 that were working on anything that extended the health span, 1521 01:12:54,787 --> 01:12:56,413 or extended life. 1522 01:12:56,455 --> 01:13:01,752 He was going around asking that they pay him on the side, 1523 01:13:01,794 --> 01:13:04,421 and that he could, you know, get them special access. 1524 01:13:05,756 --> 01:13:07,716 He had access to all my emails, 1525 01:13:07,758 --> 01:13:10,052 he had access to all the websites 1526 01:13:10,094 --> 01:13:12,596 for the three foundations. 1527 01:13:14,098 --> 01:13:17,893 He started taking airline tickets and invitations 1528 01:13:17,935 --> 01:13:20,104 that I would receive to give speeches. 1529 01:13:20,145 --> 01:13:21,271 He would say things like, 1530 01:13:21,313 --> 01:13:22,606 "Oh, no, she's not available, 1531 01:13:22,648 --> 01:13:25,317 but she asked that I go in her place." 1532 01:13:28,821 --> 01:13:33,784 suspenseful music 1533 01:13:33,826 --> 01:13:35,828 This was Aaron's bedroom. 1534 01:13:36,829 --> 01:13:40,290 He really liked the Vishnu here 1535 01:13:40,332 --> 01:13:43,001 because he thought that it was, uh, spiritual. 1536 01:13:44,837 --> 01:13:47,631 As we found out later, he was using drugs. 1537 01:13:47,673 --> 01:13:52,010 He had drugs in the house, uh, mainly cocaine. 1538 01:13:53,846 --> 01:13:58,392 People started to complain about how aggressive he was. 1539 01:13:59,977 --> 01:14:02,354 If we were meeting with a Congressional staffer that said, 1540 01:14:02,396 --> 01:14:04,606 "No, we're not interested in this project, you know, 1541 01:14:04,648 --> 01:14:06,608 we don't have any funds available for that," 1542 01:14:06,650 --> 01:14:11,155 Uh, he would double down and start, you know, pressing them. 1543 01:14:12,656 --> 01:14:14,992 This is the email explaining to him 1544 01:14:15,033 --> 01:14:17,828 that because of all these problems, 1545 01:14:17,870 --> 01:14:22,624 that we have to demote him, and that we can no longer have him 1546 01:14:22,666 --> 01:14:26,170 in the position as a Chief Operating Officer. 1547 01:14:27,296 --> 01:14:30,174 And then immediately a week later, 1548 01:14:30,215 --> 01:14:33,677 we decided that we had to terminate him. 1549 01:14:33,719 --> 01:14:38,182 Because after he got demoted, then he called the chairman 1550 01:14:38,223 --> 01:14:42,019 and said that the problem is actually Edwina, it's not him. 1551 01:14:42,060 --> 01:14:45,189 And he needs to be able to, uh, 1552 01:14:45,230 --> 01:14:47,858 for people to see how brilliant he is, 1553 01:14:47,900 --> 01:14:50,611 and he needs to report directly to the board. 1554 01:14:52,738 --> 01:14:54,448 [Greg Neimeyer] I'm coming home and 1555 01:14:54,490 --> 01:14:58,202 Edwina is sitting in the car in the cul-de-sac for hours 1556 01:14:58,243 --> 01:15:01,038 because she doesn't want to come into the house, 1557 01:15:01,079 --> 01:15:03,790 because she doesn't want to be ambushed by Aaron, 1558 01:15:03,832 --> 01:15:06,543 and be here in the house alone with him. 1559 01:15:06,585 --> 01:15:08,212 Well at that point, it's like 1560 01:15:08,253 --> 01:15:11,673 no, no, no, this dog does not hunt. 1561 01:15:11,715 --> 01:15:14,843 We had to move him out of our house, 1562 01:15:14,885 --> 01:15:16,386 get him out of our lives. 1563 01:15:16,428 --> 01:15:18,096 It was unfortunate. 1564 01:15:19,473 --> 01:15:22,684 He clearly had many of the features of psychopathy, 1565 01:15:22,726 --> 01:15:23,936 a psychopath. 1566 01:15:23,977 --> 01:15:25,687 People were a mark, they were to be used. 1567 01:15:25,729 --> 01:15:29,024 He had the, the, the capacity for charisma 1568 01:15:29,066 --> 01:15:32,694 He could turn it on and be very, uh, disarming 1569 01:15:32,736 --> 01:15:37,241 and, uh, and winning, very apparently capable and genuine. 1570 01:15:37,282 --> 01:15:39,243 But beneath it was predation. 1571 01:15:39,284 --> 01:15:46,583 So, so, I do have uh, I did have serious concerns about his, 1572 01:15:46,625 --> 01:15:48,085 his mental health. 1573 01:15:50,963 --> 01:15:52,923 [Tristan Roberts] [in background] Yeah I heard 1574 01:15:52,965 --> 01:15:54,591 there was, uh, some issues. 1575 01:15:54,633 --> 01:15:58,095 [Tristan] We start shaking the tree and seeing what was there. 1576 01:15:58,136 --> 01:16:00,931 And that's when we started talking to the early investors. 1577 01:16:00,973 --> 01:16:04,685 And we found out that they had been promised equity. 1578 01:16:04,726 --> 01:16:07,521 And Aaron was sort of running a shell game, 1579 01:16:07,563 --> 01:16:10,232 where he was giving them equity in something worthless. 1580 01:16:10,274 --> 01:16:11,233 [indistinct chatter] 1581 01:16:11,275 --> 01:16:12,484 dissonant music 1582 01:16:12,526 --> 01:16:13,902 [Gabriel Licina] He totally offered me 1583 01:16:13,944 --> 01:16:16,071 a consulting contract, which is the same contract 1584 01:16:16,113 --> 01:16:18,949 that he offered David Ishee, which is the same contract 1585 01:16:18,991 --> 01:16:20,909 that he offered Mac, which is the same contract 1586 01:16:20,951 --> 01:16:22,911 that he offered Andreas 1587 01:16:22,953 --> 01:16:28,917 And every single one of them said 30% of the gross profits 1588 01:16:28,959 --> 01:16:30,586 from anything that you consult on. 1589 01:16:30,627 --> 01:16:32,921 And that's already four people, 1590 01:16:32,963 --> 01:16:34,423 and there were more people involved, 1591 01:16:34,464 --> 01:16:38,302 but 30% times four is more than 100%. 1592 01:16:39,970 --> 01:16:41,763 [Edwina Rogers] After we severed our ties, 1593 01:16:41,805 --> 01:16:43,807 he was still going to everybody 1594 01:16:43,849 --> 01:16:45,142 that I had introduced him to, 1595 01:16:45,183 --> 01:16:48,353 and he wasn't telling them what had happened. 1596 01:16:50,022 --> 01:16:52,482 For example, there was a scientist in Greece 1597 01:16:52,524 --> 01:16:55,319 that had come up with some therapy 1598 01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:59,990 to rejuvenate women's ovaries, so that they could possibly 1599 01:17:00,032 --> 01:17:03,827 have a child, if they had already gone into menopause. 1600 01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:06,747 And so he went back to that scientist and said, 1601 01:17:06,788 --> 01:17:09,082 "Let me do your marketing and, you know, 1602 01:17:09,124 --> 01:17:12,461 we can do some clinical trials, and we'll charge $5000." 1603 01:17:12,502 --> 01:17:15,922 But he was keeping the $5000, you know, himself, 1604 01:17:15,964 --> 01:17:19,009 and he was using that, uh, to live on. 1605 01:17:21,553 --> 01:17:23,805 It was a very clear pattern. 1606 01:17:23,847 --> 01:17:29,353 I had seen Aaron do this so many times to different people, 1607 01:17:29,394 --> 01:17:31,980 including, you know, back to my girlfriend 1608 01:17:32,022 --> 01:17:34,149 who had breast cancer, who was wealthy. 1609 01:17:34,191 --> 01:17:37,527 Give me money and I'll, I'll try to get you, 1610 01:17:37,569 --> 01:17:39,029 you know, this treatment. 1611 01:17:40,447 --> 01:17:41,990 [Tristan Roberts] I mean, it's one thing to, like, 1612 01:17:42,032 --> 01:17:44,159 take investor money uh, and run off with it. 1613 01:17:44,201 --> 01:17:47,329 But what was really saddening was taking people 1614 01:17:47,371 --> 01:17:50,874 who have illnesses, their money, you know. 1615 01:17:50,916 --> 01:17:54,044 That is... [exacerbated sigh] 1616 01:17:54,086 --> 01:17:55,545 To some degree, it's like, 1617 01:17:55,587 --> 01:17:57,881 yeah, he would try to, like, fund something, 1618 01:17:57,923 --> 01:17:59,383 but he didn't have the bandwidth, 1619 01:17:59,424 --> 01:18:01,718 the lab didn't have the bandwidth to actually be able 1620 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:03,804 to, like, deliver anything in a lot of these cases. 1621 01:18:03,845 --> 01:18:07,140 So, I think that was scamming, you know, 1622 01:18:07,182 --> 01:18:08,517 there's no way around it. 1623 01:18:12,854 --> 01:18:14,815 [Aaron Traywick] The question of false hope? 1624 01:18:14,856 --> 01:18:16,692 Well, that's just another way of saying 1625 01:18:16,733 --> 01:18:18,485 the experiment isn't complete yet. 1626 01:18:18,527 --> 01:18:20,487 And we don't know if it worked or not. 1627 01:18:20,529 --> 01:18:21,822 And of course we don't, 1628 01:18:21,863 --> 01:18:23,740 'cause that's why we do experiments. 1629 01:18:25,909 --> 01:18:27,577 [Josiah Zayner] I said that nobody at his company 1630 01:18:27,619 --> 01:18:29,037 was, like, a professional scientist 1631 01:18:29,079 --> 01:18:30,872 that he was working with. 1632 01:18:30,914 --> 01:18:33,041 He said that was a lie, and all this stuff. 1633 01:18:33,083 --> 01:18:35,544 And I'm like, "Look man, I know everybody you work with. 1634 01:18:35,585 --> 01:18:36,962 I've talked to them all. 1635 01:18:37,003 --> 01:18:38,922 I know everybody who did everything, like..." [laughs] 1636 01:18:42,926 --> 01:18:44,219 Aaron was trying to sue me. 1637 01:18:44,261 --> 01:18:46,221 I was the only individual named in the suit, 1638 01:18:46,263 --> 01:18:49,057 me and Gizmodo Media Corporation, 1639 01:18:49,099 --> 01:18:51,601 for $250 Million for libel. 1640 01:18:53,061 --> 01:18:57,774 And it says stuff like, "Mr. Zayner, obviously jealous, 1641 01:18:57,816 --> 01:19:00,110 said these things about me 1642 01:19:00,152 --> 01:19:03,447 in an interview with The Atlantic and on Facebook." 1643 01:19:03,488 --> 01:19:05,031 That his company wasn't 1644 01:19:05,073 --> 01:19:07,033 working with legitimate scientists 1645 01:19:07,075 --> 01:19:09,619 or medical doctors, which they should. 1646 01:19:10,579 --> 01:19:11,663 It was eventually dismissed 1647 01:19:11,705 --> 01:19:14,583 because he filed in federal court, 1648 01:19:14,624 --> 01:19:16,543 and there was a bunch of legal things 1649 01:19:16,585 --> 01:19:19,045 that he didn't under... understand when he filed, 1650 01:19:19,087 --> 01:19:20,756 that the judge just threw it out because of. 1651 01:19:24,092 --> 01:19:25,469 [Mac Davis] I saw what was happening. 1652 01:19:26,636 --> 01:19:28,889 And I figured Aaron's a strong guy, 1653 01:19:28,930 --> 01:19:34,269 and he is super committed to making it through anything. 1654 01:19:34,311 --> 01:19:37,439 He had pushed away most of his friends, 1655 01:19:37,481 --> 01:19:40,108 uh, for the sake of being 1656 01:19:40,150 --> 01:19:43,945 completely dedicated to this business venture. 1657 01:19:43,987 --> 01:19:48,283 And he didn't talk to his family very much. 1658 01:19:48,325 --> 01:19:52,454 And the media portrayal of him, 1659 01:19:52,496 --> 01:19:57,125 uh, although he was a very proud person naturally, 1660 01:19:57,167 --> 01:20:00,128 uh, and very confident, 1661 01:20:00,170 --> 01:20:03,298 it really destroyed him on the inside. 1662 01:20:03,340 --> 01:20:07,219 [traffic noise] 1663 01:20:09,221 --> 01:20:14,184 dissonant music 1664 01:20:14,226 --> 01:20:22,192 [water dripping] 1665 01:20:22,234 --> 01:20:23,777 [Reporter] Aaron Traywick, 1666 01:20:23,819 --> 01:20:26,363 the CEO of the biohacking company Ascendance Biomedical, 1667 01:20:26,404 --> 01:20:27,697 was found dead Sunday 1668 01:20:27,739 --> 01:20:29,533 floating in a sensory deprivation tank 1669 01:20:29,574 --> 01:20:32,702 in a meditation spa in Washington, D.C. 1670 01:20:32,744 --> 01:20:34,204 Traywick and his company 1671 01:20:34,246 --> 01:20:35,539 developed experimental gene therapies 1672 01:20:35,580 --> 01:20:37,374 that people tested on themselves, 1673 01:20:37,415 --> 01:20:39,376 without approval from the FDA. 1674 01:20:39,417 --> 01:20:45,215 [water bubbling] 1675 01:20:46,925 --> 01:20:48,260 [Melanie Traywick Feith] They actually came to my house, 1676 01:20:48,301 --> 01:20:49,803 the police did. 1677 01:20:51,263 --> 01:20:54,224 I just remember just feeling so panicky inside, 1678 01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:59,229 like, oh my gosh, but I never dreamed it was gonna be that. 1679 01:21:01,273 --> 01:21:03,066 That he was dead. 1680 01:21:03,108 --> 01:21:05,569 Just I'm like, "What?" You know, like.. 1681 01:21:05,610 --> 01:21:08,196 [inhales sharply] I just was... 1682 01:21:08,238 --> 01:21:10,073 wasn't expecting that at all, 1683 01:21:10,115 --> 01:21:13,952 just you know. It was just really bad. 1684 01:21:19,457 --> 01:21:22,252 [Tristan Roberts] I was walking my dogs 1685 01:21:22,294 --> 01:21:27,632 out behind my family's house when I heard of Aaron's death. 1686 01:21:29,134 --> 01:21:31,094 I got a text message from someone asking, 1687 01:21:31,136 --> 01:21:34,264 "Why is Andreas saying that Aaron is dead?" 1688 01:21:34,306 --> 01:21:36,308 And I hadn't heard anything at that point. 1689 01:21:37,642 --> 01:21:39,603 A lot of us were just shocked, you know. 1690 01:21:39,644 --> 01:21:41,271 I mean he's, like, the same age as me. 1691 01:21:41,313 --> 01:21:44,107 So that rattles your own mortality on some degree. 1692 01:21:44,149 --> 01:21:45,483 At the same time, 1693 01:21:45,525 --> 01:21:47,277 I think there was like a confluence of factors 1694 01:21:47,319 --> 01:21:49,362 I think he definitely was depressed. 1695 01:21:50,322 --> 01:21:53,450 As a mutual friend put it, 1696 01:21:53,491 --> 01:21:56,119 "We've all been watching Aaron drown for the past few months." 1697 01:21:56,161 --> 01:22:00,290 And I was like, "Uh, yeah, it's kind of, kind of true." 1698 01:22:00,332 --> 01:22:02,500 [Josiah Zayner] The news spread, you know. 1699 01:22:02,542 --> 01:22:05,253 Most biohackers are a decentralized community 1700 01:22:05,295 --> 01:22:06,463 on social media. 1701 01:22:07,923 --> 01:22:10,425 And you know, Facebook, there's all the, and internet, 1702 01:22:10,467 --> 01:22:12,594 there's all these conspiracy theories, 1703 01:22:12,636 --> 01:22:15,096 some people linking it to his injection, 1704 01:22:15,138 --> 01:22:16,806 which is not possible at all. 1705 01:22:16,848 --> 01:22:19,309 He did the injection, like, three months ago. 1706 01:22:19,351 --> 01:22:20,644 If he was gonna have an immune reaction, 1707 01:22:20,685 --> 01:22:22,979 it would have happened days or weeks after, 1708 01:22:23,021 --> 01:22:24,481 not three months later. 1709 01:22:29,527 --> 01:22:32,489 [Michael Laufer] He had been cut off, or cut himself off 1710 01:22:32,530 --> 01:22:34,741 from contact with everybody for the last four weeks. 1711 01:22:36,368 --> 01:22:40,330 And if it was just that what he was trying to do didn't work, 1712 01:22:40,372 --> 01:22:42,165 and he was so depressed, that killed him, 1713 01:22:42,207 --> 01:22:43,750 that's, that's horrific. 1714 01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:46,670 On the other far side of the spectrum, 1715 01:22:46,711 --> 01:22:48,713 some people think it was a hit. 1716 01:22:49,881 --> 01:22:52,759 That's similarly scary and depressing. 1717 01:22:54,386 --> 01:22:57,180 He was a very controversial figure, in a lot of ways. 1718 01:22:57,222 --> 01:22:59,683 So the fact that he wound up dead, 1719 01:22:59,724 --> 01:23:04,646 especially after the collapse of Ascendance Biomedical 1720 01:23:04,688 --> 01:23:07,023 under really unfortunate circumstances, 1721 01:23:07,065 --> 01:23:10,652 seemed strangely timed. 1722 01:23:10,694 --> 01:23:13,154 [water lapping] 1723 01:23:13,196 --> 01:23:14,656 [Mac Davis] Part of me didn't believe it. 1724 01:23:14,698 --> 01:23:17,659 Part of me wondered if he had been murdered. 1725 01:23:17,701 --> 01:23:20,870 Part of me wondered if he had faked his death and escaped. 1726 01:23:23,373 --> 01:23:24,708 [Tristan Roberts] There was definitely 1727 01:23:24,749 --> 01:23:26,209 a lot of media attention following Aaron's death. 1728 01:23:26,251 --> 01:23:28,378 I mean it was pretty much, like, 1729 01:23:28,420 --> 01:23:30,380 straight out of a Law & Order episode. 1730 01:23:30,422 --> 01:23:34,217 This notable figure dies under mysterious circumstances. 1731 01:23:34,259 --> 01:23:36,386 And the more digging you do, the more you realize 1732 01:23:36,428 --> 01:23:40,223 that a lot of people had motive behind it, 1733 01:23:40,265 --> 01:23:43,393 not just big pharma, but also, like, all the biohackers 1734 01:23:43,435 --> 01:23:46,396 that he had, like, misused their, like, reputations 1735 01:23:46,438 --> 01:23:48,398 in order for his own personal gain. 1736 01:23:48,440 --> 01:23:53,236 And then, but ultimately, it's... it's the mystery. 1737 01:23:53,278 --> 01:23:57,741 soft music 1738 01:23:57,782 --> 01:23:59,743 [Rita Traywick] Melanie and I went to D.C. 1739 01:23:59,784 --> 01:24:03,246 and we went in this place. 1740 01:24:03,288 --> 01:24:05,248 I think it was just an accident. 1741 01:24:05,290 --> 01:24:06,583 I mean we really don't know. 1742 01:24:07,917 --> 01:24:10,378 And it's out there that he had used ketamine 1743 01:24:10,420 --> 01:24:12,547 but they said that there wasn't enough in his system 1744 01:24:12,589 --> 01:24:14,924 for him to have overdosed on it. 1745 01:24:16,509 --> 01:24:19,387 Somebody had said that he had a bruise on his forehead. 1746 01:24:19,429 --> 01:24:25,727 And, uh, we kinda think maybe he slipped 1747 01:24:25,769 --> 01:24:28,438 and fell back into the floatation spa. 1748 01:24:28,480 --> 01:24:31,649 Uh, I don't know. 1749 01:24:34,819 --> 01:24:36,821 We saw him April, April 14th. 1750 01:24:39,491 --> 01:24:40,450 [sighs] 1751 01:24:40,492 --> 01:24:43,620 emotional music 1752 01:24:43,661 --> 01:24:44,954 He had his suitcase with him. 1753 01:24:44,996 --> 01:24:46,623 He was going to the airport 1754 01:24:46,664 --> 01:24:48,124 when he was leaving from Memphis, 1755 01:24:48,166 --> 01:24:49,793 and he told his daddy, he said. 1756 01:24:49,834 --> 01:24:52,128 "Everything I own is in this suitcase." 1757 01:24:52,170 --> 01:24:55,507 [sniffling] 1758 01:24:57,842 --> 01:25:00,136 He would just pick up that suitcase and go. 1759 01:25:00,178 --> 01:25:03,640 [giggling and sniffling] 1760 01:25:03,681 --> 01:25:05,934 [Kristen Bennett] He was my uncle, but growing up, 1761 01:25:05,975 --> 01:25:08,269 we were really like brother and sister. 1762 01:25:08,311 --> 01:25:12,607 Um, like, that's most of my childhood, is, um, like, 1763 01:25:12,649 --> 01:25:16,444 me and him playing outside and, um, 1764 01:25:16,486 --> 01:25:18,279 just me and him doing stuff. 1765 01:25:18,321 --> 01:25:23,326 [emotional music] 1766 01:25:25,036 --> 01:25:27,163 I just can't believe he's gone, really. 1767 01:25:28,498 --> 01:25:34,462 [bird calling] 1768 01:25:48,393 --> 01:25:51,354 [Mac Davis] I didn't know when he died 1769 01:25:51,396 --> 01:25:54,858 that at the time I was Aaron's best friend. 1770 01:26:00,738 --> 01:26:02,532 Over time, I ended up being the person 1771 01:26:02,574 --> 01:26:04,075 that he talked to the most. 1772 01:26:05,368 --> 01:26:08,955 and going to his funeral, meeting his family, 1773 01:26:08,997 --> 01:26:15,503 giving his eulogy, and being inducted into the family 1774 01:26:15,545 --> 01:26:19,507 was a really, uh, precious experience 1775 01:26:19,549 --> 01:26:21,509 that I was not expecting. 1776 01:26:21,551 --> 01:26:26,514 [flowing water] 1777 01:26:26,556 --> 01:26:30,602 [door opening] 1778 01:26:41,571 --> 01:26:43,531 [Gabriel Licina] A day after Aaron violated the lease, 1779 01:26:43,573 --> 01:26:45,200 I came up to the landlord, I'm like, 1780 01:26:45,241 --> 01:26:48,745 "Hey man, hear you have a unit that needs to be filled." 1781 01:26:48,786 --> 01:26:52,582 So we just, like, stepped right back into that same building. 1782 01:26:52,624 --> 01:26:54,292 And we picked up the pieces. 1783 01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:57,587 Ascendance didn't have intellectual property 1784 01:26:57,629 --> 01:26:58,755 on anything. 1785 01:26:58,796 --> 01:27:02,091 So all the people who did stuff 1786 01:27:02,133 --> 01:27:03,676 got together and they were like, 1787 01:27:03,718 --> 01:27:10,600 "Well, that was dumb. Let's, uh, keep doing our stuff now." 1788 01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:17,607 [seabirds calling] 1789 01:27:19,609 --> 01:27:23,571 [water crashing] 1790 01:27:23,613 --> 01:27:25,573 [Gabriel] We're working on plastic-eating fungus, 1791 01:27:25,615 --> 01:27:29,410 and using directed evolution to make it so that the fungus 1792 01:27:29,452 --> 01:27:32,247 can live in the ocean, so that it can eat ocean plastic, 1793 01:27:32,288 --> 01:27:34,499 like the Pacific Garbage Patch. 1794 01:27:35,625 --> 01:27:40,588 [water splashing] 1795 01:27:40,630 --> 01:27:44,926 So this is the ocean water that we inoculated with Styrofoam, 1796 01:27:44,968 --> 01:27:46,594 and the fungus. 1797 01:27:46,636 --> 01:27:50,265 It's, like, cloudy, it's totally growing, 1798 01:27:50,306 --> 01:27:52,308 and it's aggressive, which is good. 1799 01:27:52,350 --> 01:27:53,643 Uh, we want it aggressive. 1800 01:27:53,685 --> 01:27:55,812 We have aggressive problems to deal with. 1801 01:27:55,853 --> 01:27:58,982 [water lapping] 1802 01:27:59,023 --> 01:28:01,651 We're also working on a project 1803 01:28:01,693 --> 01:28:03,653 for accelerating tree growth, 1804 01:28:03,695 --> 01:28:06,572 so that trees, and actually anything with a cell wall, 1805 01:28:06,614 --> 01:28:11,577 can grow twice as big, twice as fast. 1806 01:28:18,167 --> 01:28:20,128 It's like being punk rock. 1807 01:28:20,169 --> 01:28:22,422 Staggering around with needles 1808 01:28:22,463 --> 01:28:24,424 and taking your pants off on stage. 1809 01:28:24,465 --> 01:28:26,467 Like you can only get away with that shit 1810 01:28:26,509 --> 01:28:28,136 when you're a kid. 1811 01:28:28,177 --> 01:28:30,179 At some point, everybody's gonna have to grow up. 1812 01:28:30,221 --> 01:28:31,973 It doesn't mean that we all need to become, like, 1813 01:28:32,015 --> 01:28:34,809 hardcore adherents of late stage capitalism, 1814 01:28:34,851 --> 01:28:37,812 uh, but, you know, 1815 01:28:37,854 --> 01:28:40,148 there is something to be said 1816 01:28:40,189 --> 01:28:42,650 for not being ridiculous all the fucking time, 1817 01:28:42,692 --> 01:28:46,654 and, you know, 1818 01:28:46,696 --> 01:28:49,991 trying to do something that matters. 1819 01:28:55,038 --> 01:28:57,540 [Tristan Roberts] We are in sunny Los Angeles. 1820 01:28:57,582 --> 01:29:02,712 Because after a year of going back to the drawing board, 1821 01:29:02,754 --> 01:29:05,381 the next version of the therapy is ready. 1822 01:29:06,674 --> 01:29:07,967 I'm pretty excited. 1823 01:29:08,009 --> 01:29:12,305 I'm definitely ready, but at the same time, 1824 01:29:12,347 --> 01:29:14,640 I feel a little bit more jaded 1825 01:29:14,682 --> 01:29:16,559 and wizened since last time. 1826 01:29:18,686 --> 01:29:20,188 How do we pivot? 1827 01:29:20,229 --> 01:29:23,316 How do we not just have this be a sad little note 1828 01:29:23,358 --> 01:29:25,068 in biohacking history? 1829 01:29:26,861 --> 01:29:28,654 [Tristan] After Aaron's departure, 1830 01:29:28,696 --> 01:29:30,656 there was some issue of like, 1831 01:29:30,698 --> 01:29:32,700 "How do we raise the funds for this?" 1832 01:29:32,742 --> 01:29:34,577 But, we've been able to secure what we need 1833 01:29:34,619 --> 01:29:35,620 to move forward. 1834 01:29:39,749 --> 01:29:41,542 [Walter Patterson] These two get combined. 1835 01:29:41,584 --> 01:29:45,046 This is the PI in 30 microliters. 1836 01:29:45,088 --> 01:29:48,925 This is the DNA at one microgram at 20 microliters. 1837 01:29:50,093 --> 01:29:51,636 There you go. Ooh, yeah perfect. 1838 01:29:53,179 --> 01:29:55,223 [Tristan Roberts] Now I'm testing out this cocktail 1839 01:29:55,264 --> 01:29:56,808 of these different substances. 1840 01:29:58,434 --> 01:30:01,729 And once we have that, then I think we're pretty set. 1841 01:30:01,771 --> 01:30:04,440 And we'll have to pursue clinical testing. 1842 01:30:05,650 --> 01:30:08,111 That's 144, um, microliters. 1843 01:30:08,152 --> 01:30:09,112 Yeah. 1844 01:30:09,153 --> 01:30:10,613 Right. The last one. 1845 01:30:15,159 --> 01:30:16,619 [Tristan] Oh, there we go. 1846 01:30:19,664 --> 01:30:21,958 [Mac Davis] I really wish Aaron was here to see 1847 01:30:21,999 --> 01:30:25,294 how far we've come, 1848 01:30:25,336 --> 01:30:27,797 because I know that's what he would want to see 1849 01:30:27,839 --> 01:30:29,632 more than anything. 1850 01:30:29,674 --> 01:30:32,135 If we can produce the cocktail, 1851 01:30:32,176 --> 01:30:36,806 and if it shows the results that we would expect, 1852 01:30:36,848 --> 01:30:40,309 then we would know that the work we were doing 1853 01:30:40,351 --> 01:30:43,688 ultimately mattered and paid off. 1854 01:30:43,729 --> 01:30:46,899 And it would be a functional vaccine for HIV. 1855 01:30:48,192 --> 01:30:50,153 [Mac Davis] Did it all get in there? 1856 01:30:50,194 --> 01:30:51,362 [Tristan Roberts] Yes. 1857 01:30:51,404 --> 01:30:52,780 [Mac] Awesome. 1858 01:30:52,822 --> 01:30:55,158 All in all, I don't think I'm gonna die from it, 1859 01:30:55,199 --> 01:30:57,160 so I'm all right. 1860 01:30:57,201 --> 01:30:58,494 I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it. 1861 01:30:58,536 --> 01:30:59,495 Sweet. 1862 01:30:59,537 --> 01:31:04,459 pulsing music 1863 01:31:05,668 --> 01:31:06,794 [Tristan Roberts] Throughout human history, 1864 01:31:06,836 --> 01:31:08,796 people have been either the victims 1865 01:31:08,838 --> 01:31:11,340 or the beneficiaries of their genes. 1866 01:31:11,382 --> 01:31:14,844 Those genes express and they create what you are. 1867 01:31:14,886 --> 01:31:19,348 So to be able to alter which genes you're expressing, 1868 01:31:19,390 --> 01:31:23,686 whether that be by removing some or adding to that, 1869 01:31:23,728 --> 01:31:25,688 totally changes the game. 1870 01:31:25,730 --> 01:31:28,858 It allows you to become something else that 1871 01:31:28,900 --> 01:31:34,363 be it more than what your... the lottery of life handed you. 1872 01:31:34,405 --> 01:31:39,452 pulsing electronic music 1873 01:31:42,747 --> 01:31:45,208 [Josiah Zayner] I don't plan to be a biohacker forever 1874 01:31:45,249 --> 01:31:48,127 and just be, like, poor, injecting myself with shit. 1875 01:31:51,923 --> 01:31:56,969 China is really interesting because the market is huge. 1876 01:31:57,470 --> 01:31:58,513 [trunk closing] 1877 01:32:00,932 --> 01:32:03,726 Maybe we'll have business here in ten years, five years. 1878 01:32:06,896 --> 01:32:08,689 Start slowly, move into the culture, 1879 01:32:08,731 --> 01:32:14,028 help develop biohacking as a thing in China. 1880 01:32:14,070 --> 01:32:16,197 [slurping] 1881 01:32:28,125 --> 01:32:30,920 [Josiah] If anything, Aaron challenged everybody. 1882 01:32:30,962 --> 01:32:32,922 Then people like me and other people 1883 01:32:32,964 --> 01:32:34,340 starting to think about, like, 1884 01:32:34,382 --> 01:32:36,968 "How can we do this safer and more effective?" 1885 01:32:38,469 --> 01:32:40,930 It's easy to look at Aaron and choose him as a scapegoat 1886 01:32:40,972 --> 01:32:43,099 and be like, "Oh man, he's, he's like the worst 1887 01:32:43,140 --> 01:32:44,433 of the biohacking community." 1888 01:32:44,475 --> 01:32:46,102 But in reality, his only fault 1889 01:32:46,143 --> 01:32:47,603 was that he called things a cure. 1890 01:32:47,645 --> 01:32:50,273 Otherwise, the stuff he was doing was no different 1891 01:32:50,314 --> 01:32:53,276 than most of the other people are doing, 1892 01:32:53,317 --> 01:32:56,946 and even probably far less harmful, 1893 01:32:56,988 --> 01:32:59,490 and some of these people are making millions of dollars. 1894 01:33:00,992 --> 01:33:02,952 I have a tattoo on my arm. It says, 1895 01:33:02,994 --> 01:33:04,203 Create something beautiful. 1896 01:33:05,288 --> 01:33:06,914 And we were gonna do all this stuff 1897 01:33:06,956 --> 01:33:08,749 because we just wanted to do beautiful things, 1898 01:33:08,791 --> 01:33:10,251 we just wanted to make beautiful things, 1899 01:33:10,293 --> 01:33:12,461 and we were gonna do it just for the discovery, 1900 01:33:12,503 --> 01:33:13,796 for our, our passion. 1901 01:33:15,172 --> 01:33:17,091 I think biohackers are way ahead of their time, 1902 01:33:17,133 --> 01:33:18,467 and I think they're pushing things 1903 01:33:18,509 --> 01:33:22,638 almost to a pace that's just crazy. 1904 01:33:26,350 --> 01:33:28,477 I'm sure we'll see a lot more people 1905 01:33:28,519 --> 01:33:31,022 eventually in the future injecting themselves, 1906 01:33:32,523 --> 01:33:34,984 and it actually being really, really successful. 1907 01:33:35,026 --> 01:33:39,739 [powerful music] 1908 01:34:27,036 --> 01:34:28,537 [Aaron Traywick] At its foundation, to me, 1909 01:34:28,579 --> 01:34:33,084 it appears as simply freedom, morphological freedom, 1910 01:34:34,585 --> 01:34:38,047 the freedom to be able to invent the technologies 1911 01:34:38,089 --> 01:34:39,674 that can enhance your life, 1912 01:34:39,715 --> 01:34:42,885 regardless of the circumstances you may have been born in, 1913 01:34:42,927 --> 01:34:45,930 or the genetics you are predisposed to. 1914 01:34:47,390 --> 01:34:49,725 Um, I mean ultimately that's, that's what it is, 1915 01:34:49,767 --> 01:34:52,895 is self-guided evolution, self-directed evolution. 1916 01:34:52,937 --> 01:34:55,564 And that is something that every individual 1917 01:34:55,606 --> 01:34:57,066 should have the right to have. 1918 01:34:57,108 --> 01:34:59,068 And if every individual has that right, 1919 01:34:59,110 --> 01:35:03,114 then the collective, like humanity as a whole, benefits. 1920 01:35:04,448 --> 01:35:07,034 And our, our culture, our world, our species 1921 01:35:07,076 --> 01:35:09,578 is all the better for it. 1922 01:35:09,620 --> 01:35:11,038 [Interviewer] Well thank you again 1923 01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:12,873 for taking the time to speak with me. 1924 01:35:12,915 --> 01:35:14,583 Aaron, stay safe and best of luck. 1925 01:35:16,085 --> 01:35:17,545 [Aaron] Absolutely. I couldn't agree more, 1926 01:35:17,586 --> 01:35:19,380 and, uh, I was glad to do it. 1927 01:35:19,422 --> 01:35:21,549 Thank you so very much for having me here.