1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,040 [man laughs] Rugby, it's a dangerous sport though. 4 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,840 It's a lot harder than American football. 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,600 [woman] I know it's like a tackling sport though, that's what I do know. 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,360 Where you tackle each other. [laughs] 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,200 [man 2] I've seen way more people playing it on the park in the last few years. 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,960 It definitely feels like it's a sport that appeals to everyone. 9 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,960 [Beno Obano] I always feel like sport has a way of bringing people together. 10 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,560 It brings people from just different parts of the world. 11 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,160 Fortunately, I've had the chance to play rugby 12 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,800 and I personally don't know what my life would be like if I didn't play rugby. 13 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,640 It'd be vastly different. 14 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:09,320 [TV commentary] That is monstrous! What a hit! 15 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,360 -Where that heck did that come from? -Huge pass! That is sensational! 16 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,680 ...Kick across the field, some fabulous handling. 17 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,560 Stepping on the gas now, heading for the corner. 18 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,200 Well finished! 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,320 Oh, lovely pass to Obano. Obano explodes through that first tackle. 20 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:26,880 Up to five metres short. 21 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:29,600 This is Genge, just charging into the opposition. 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,160 Yes, the try but what about the pass? 23 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,640 And Watson is on to it. Pure quality! 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,200 Anthony Watson! 25 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,240 -And he's still going. Oh, what a try! -[whistle blows] 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,280 Itoje! Oh, my goodness! 27 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,840 Maro Itoje! From nowhere! 28 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,680 You have to say they thoroughly deserve that. 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,000 Can he get there? 30 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,800 Heading for the corner. What a score! 31 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,760 -[crowd cheering wildly] -Oh, my goodness me! 32 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,880 [rap music: "Of Course" by Headie One] 33 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,360 Rugby is not really a thing for Nigerians in general. 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,040 Initially, rugby was very alien to me. 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:17,920 [Maro Itoje] From my birth to 11, 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,000 I had very little interest in rugby, if any interest at all. 37 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,560 [Beno] I didn't really know how to play rugby for the longest time, like. 38 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,080 [Maro] I didn't know the rules, I didn't really know the game. 39 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,760 I was brought into school and told, "This is what you're going to have to do 40 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,520 because you're a big boy." 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,600 [Beno] When I went to that first school, it was sort of like, 42 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,360 "Give Beno the ball, let Beno go and score a try." 43 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,320 That was it, that was it from 11 to 16, essentially. 44 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,160 I didn't have a clue how to play. 45 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,120 I went to my second school and I had to sort of learn how to play rugby there. 46 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,480 And I remember when I was 17, it was like, 47 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,920 "Bens, you're supposed to be the guy but, you know, 48 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,040 you don't really know how to play rugby!" [laughs] 49 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,800 So I spent that whole summer like watching 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,440 South Africa/England. I think that was the tour of 2012. 51 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,360 I think that's what happened. 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,000 And it's mad because JJ, like, one of my best friends now, 53 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,800 that's where he got his debut, 54 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,280 and at the time, obviously, I didn't know anything about rugby. 55 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,360 I had to learn what was good and what you're supposed to do in rugby. 56 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,000 [shouting] 57 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,440 [crowd whopping and clapping] 58 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,640 It's a little bit weird that, like, I didn't really know how to play rugby, 59 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,840 like, the intricacies and the nuances of the game, 60 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:29,800 cos essentially that's the part of the game now that I enjoy the most, 61 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,880 the tactics and the little bits that people don't really understand. 62 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,720 Those parts I find the greatest part of the game and it's weird, at the time, 63 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,600 I knew completely nothing about it. 64 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,800 I didn't really have a vision of rugby. Obviously, it was all very new to me 65 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,080 and the school I was in was first and foremost very academic, 66 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,480 so the reason why I was there was academic. 67 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,160 Passed it doing great 11-plus exams and I was there for studying. 68 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,040 So nobody in that school had been an example 69 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,240 to go on and play professional in that modern, modern day. 70 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,600 [music: "Wetin Day" by Odunsi] 71 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,360 [Maro] So I was born and raised in North London. 72 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,000 Grew up in the earliest parts of my life in Cricklewood, 73 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,600 then moved to Edgware in the suburbs of North London. 74 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,880 My name is Maro Itoje. 75 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,080 England, Saracens and British and Irish Lions rugby player. 76 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,840 I had to let them know, innit? I had to let them know! 77 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,160 Sometimes they might be sleepy, I had to let them know! 78 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,560 [laughter] 79 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,760 My parents are both Nigerian, proudly Nigerian parents. 80 00:04:55,840 --> 00:05:01,200 They have big, big values on respect, culture, discipline, et cetera, et cetera, 81 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:06,800 so all of those types of things were instilled on to myself and to my siblings. 82 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,920 Our parents gave us everything we needed to do to succeed in life 83 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,480 and made sure we were grateful for it. 84 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,880 There was emphasis on, like, being active and living a healthy lifestyle, 85 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,120 but in terms of us, the push was for education. 86 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,200 It was to do well at school. 87 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,760 [Biyi Alo] Growing up, I was pushed a lot academically. 88 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:36,720 My mum wanted the best for me, me and my sister. 89 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,920 Growing up without a father in the house, the emphasis was on educate yourself, 90 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,040 work as hard as you can and you could do anything. 91 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,560 Hello. My name's Biyi Alo, I'm a tight-head prop at Wasps RFC. 92 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,240 My early life - I was born in Paddington. 93 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,200 So I was born in West London, grew up always in North West London 94 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:57,520 with me, my mum and my sister. 95 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,960 So moved around from like Kingsbury to Edgware, 96 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,640 and, yeah, grew up in Edgware. 97 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,920 I used to play football up until I was 11, 98 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,520 playing every single day, after school, during school, in your lunch breaks 99 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,880 and I sort of really loved it, played for my primary schools 100 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,280 and then started playing on Saturday, Sunday league and then 101 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,840 was looking to hopefully take that quite seriously. 102 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,280 When I went to secondary school, I managed to get into a good grammar school, 103 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,920 which was known for playing rugby in the winter and then cricket in the summer, 104 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,920 so unfortunately my football dreams had to stop there. 105 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,760 [Beno Obano] I was so certain that I was going to be a footballer 106 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:45,200 and I just used to love football, like it was ridiculous how much I loved football. 107 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,240 That was really my life. 108 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,200 [he laughs] 109 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:52,080 Yeah, what's going on? 110 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,000 I'm Beno Obano and I'm a rugby player for Bath. 111 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,480 When I was really young, I used to write to, like, 112 00:06:58,560 --> 00:06:59,960 every football club in London, pretty much. 113 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,520 I wrote to Charlton, to Tottenham, to Crystal Palace, to Fulham. 114 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,680 Like, "Just bring me in," like. "When I can play, just bring me in." 115 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,040 None of them replied apart from Fulham, which is - shout Fulham for that. 116 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,560 And then, I went to a trial after school, actually. 117 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,040 I must have been like eight years old or something, eight, nine years old. 118 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,640 And I went to a trial in Brixton at some astroturf 119 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,520 and I played a little bit and I thought I balled out, I thought I really balled out. 120 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,640 And next thing I know, there was like a voicemail, 121 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,160 like a couple of days later saying, "Yeah. 122 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,680 He just needs to lose a little bit of weight, he's a bit big," like! 123 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,880 And that was, that was my football dreams ended right there. 124 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,400 I played for Dulwich Hamlet, which is a team near me, 125 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,200 and had a little Charlton trial later on when I was probably about 13, 14, 126 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,400 and that didn't bang either, so it was just tough luck, innit? 127 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,440 I was fortunate enough to get sent to like a good Catholic school. 128 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,600 My mum's a Catholic and she really wanted us to go to a Catholic school, 129 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,320 so she sent us to a school across the way up in South West London. 130 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,760 We used to travel ages just to get there. 131 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:11,760 Everyone in the area thought it was a bit weird that they were sending us 132 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,040 so far to go to school, but obviously it worked out. 133 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:15,960 The greatest thing that that school did for me, 134 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,080 although I'm not a big fan of the school... 135 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,040 It played rugby, so it basically turned me into a rugby player, 136 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,280 which I guess is sort of like a family sport now, you can say, innit? 137 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,240 [Maro] Beno is my first cousin. 138 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,920 He was born three days before myself, he's my senior. 139 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,280 There's a lot of similarity between myself and Beno, 140 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,320 but there's also a lot of differences. 141 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,440 [Beno] Me and Maro were brought up in London, I guess, 142 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,160 completely different sides of London. 143 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,400 He's from South London, I'm from North London. 144 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,000 Similar household upbringings, a little bit different, um, 145 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,160 in the sense of areas and what we got up to and stuff. 146 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,200 [Maro] He's short and stocky. I'm tall and handsome. 147 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,160 I can play basketball, he can't play basketball. 148 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,240 At all stages we're... we're very close. 149 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,240 So he's like, he's my cousin but he's also like one of my closest friends. 150 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,560 [Beno] I was born at King's College Hospital. Shout, Camberwell! 151 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,800 And then we lived in Peckham, in Southampton Way, 152 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,800 when we were really young and then we moved ten minutes down the road 153 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,720 to Lordship Lane and we just lived off Lordship Lane in East Dulwich, 154 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,520 and that's where I grew up. 155 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,520 [music: "Shomo" by DRB Lasgidi Feat. Olamide] 156 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:40,600 Yeah, I'm like a first gen Nigerian, I guess. 157 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:42,880 Like, both my parents were born in Nigeria 158 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,200 and they came over here and had me over here. 159 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,560 They didn't really follow rugby. Like, they... 160 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,720 I think my mum was scared for me to play rugby at the beginning. 161 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,280 I had to remind her, "I'm the biggest man on the field, Mum, so it's alright!" 162 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,800 But, yeah, then they've sort of grown to love rugby 163 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,480 and the maddest thing is that, like, now, 164 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:03,320 now they just love it, like, 165 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,040 and they scream as if they know what they're talking about. 166 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,680 They have no clue, so... 167 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,400 But it's cool now, innit, like? It's what we do. 168 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,880 I remember growing up and looking at rugby players, 169 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,520 and I didn't necessarily see too many rugby players that looked like me. 170 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,520 And I was drawn to the players such as... 171 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,840 like Ugo Monye, Topsy Ojo, who kind of looked like me. 172 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,200 It wasn't anything that I'd seen around me that I could say, 173 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,320 "Right, I want to be like that guy," or "I want to be like this guy." 174 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,920 It was more like, "I enjoy it, so take it day by day, session by session 175 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,400 and what happens happens." 176 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,840 [men shouting, whistle blows] 177 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,960 [Maro] I probably didn't really think about rugby as a potential career 178 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,560 up until the age of 16. 179 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,240 From 11 to 16, I was purely playing because it was a cool thing to do, 180 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,400 because it was fun, because I was meeting new people 181 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,760 having... socialising in different circles. 182 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,000 Probably when I got to the age of 16, where... 183 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,280 I started to know a few guys in the years ahead of me 184 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,600 who were then getting contracts and then becoming professional. 185 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,640 It dawned on me that this could be a thing if I dedicate myself to it. 186 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,240 [Beno] I always think that like glory is the hardest thing to attain in life. 187 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,680 Glory is essentially an honourable achievement 188 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,560 and a lot of people go through life 189 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,920 without... a real honourable achievement. 190 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,000 That's why I love sport and glory 191 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,160 because it gives you that chance to achieve glory 192 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,840 and achieve something that's very difficult to attain. 193 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,480 In the US, they use sport a lot to change their current circumstances. 194 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,360 They use sport as a currency. 195 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,720 Whilst in the UK, we don't do it so much. 196 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,760 Well, we do in the sense of football but, in general, we don't. 197 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,360 As like people from minority, black backgrounds, 198 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,600 we don't usually use sport 199 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:19,640 as a way to change everybody's circumstances around us 200 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,280 and I think we need to use sport more as a means of social mobility. 201 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:29,880 Back home, so many people work hard 202 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:35,840 and there's a myth that hard work equals success and wealth, 203 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:42,200 but, essentially, you need a plan to work hard in. 204 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,360 People aren't aware of the opportunities for them. 205 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,520 Therefore they can't even get a plan 206 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,440 to then work hard, if that makes sense. 207 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,240 They have to be aware of opportunities in order to take those opportunities, 208 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,280 but they don't know about those opportunities. 209 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,880 And I feel like rugby's one of those opportunities 210 00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:03,960 and that's why I feel like rugby has a huge image problem. 211 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,360 That's why it's important to have people like Genge in the sport 212 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,120 in order to change, change that narrative. 213 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,440 [Ellis] No one knows that rugby was a professional sport where I grew up. 214 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,560 Like fuck, literally, no one. 215 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,160 I'm Ellis Genge. I play for Leicester Tigers and England Rugby. 216 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,720 [music: "On Deck" by Abra Cadabra] 217 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,040 So I was born in a place called Knowle West in Bristol. 218 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,720 I grew up on Andover Road. It's just off the roundabout, for anyone who knows it. 219 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,440 Yeah, it was a lively neighbourhood. I don't really know how to describe it. 220 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,600 You'd have to live there to sort of understand 221 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:43,000 the intricacies of the neighbourhood, but, yeah, it was colourful. 222 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,120 My dad's white. He loves football. 223 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,360 So that was one side of my family 224 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,880 and then, on the other side, my mum's mixed race. 225 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,760 A very small woman so it was sort of a mix of backgrounds. 226 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,680 You wouldn't traditionally put those two together. 227 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,960 Especially in the area and the sort of like time period they got together. 228 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,720 Yeah, it was a bit weird growing up, bit confused as to what was going on, 229 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,160 especially sort of knocking about the area. 230 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,280 We didn't really go out much, me and my sister. 231 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,360 We sort of just kicked about in the back garden. 232 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,600 I guess Mum and Dad were worried about what was... 233 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,920 what was going to happen if... if we ventured too far. 234 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,480 It was quite a... quite a community driven neighbourhood though. 235 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,680 It wasn't as if, like, we would have got kidnapped or anything aspect, 236 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,720 but it was more so, it was just easier to stay indoors and be safe and stuff. 237 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,240 Knowles, it was quite tough. I went to Knowle Park Junior School. 238 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,440 There wasn't much minority in our school. A few Asian kids. 239 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,720 But, yeah, I found myself sort of like telling people that I was white 240 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,120 and that I'd just come off holiday with a bit of a tan and stuff, 241 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,000 cos I could get away with it because I'm obviously not that dark-skinned 242 00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:59,840 and having a white sister was much easier as well, so... 243 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,800 I was a bit young to be going on sunbeds though. 244 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,480 Obviously, some people caught on. 245 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,320 Just silly little stuff, like people calling me "Poo Boy". 246 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,720 There weren't that much hard racism, to be honest. 247 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,840 It was more, I guess, just ignorance of being so young and stuff, 248 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,560 and just teasing, but it's the culture you're brought up with in Knowle. 249 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,640 Not many black families and stuff, so, yeah, it was tough at the time, 250 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,440 but obviously I look back on it now with a smile, 251 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,560 and it makes you a bit stronger as a person. 252 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,400 My dad was always football orientated. 253 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,600 He used to take me to watch Rovers now and then, 254 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,920 and, obviously, football violence back then was quite prevalent, 255 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,640 so I sort of grew up around that. 256 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,040 He kept me far, far away from all the fighting and stuff, 257 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,040 obviously, being like six, seven years old. 258 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,600 Yeah, all I knew was football, really, up until the age of about ten, I think. 259 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,080 Then someone took me to cricket. I fucking hated cricket. 260 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,720 I tried boxing, karate, tried everything, I think, 261 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,080 cos a lot of sports clubs, a lot of youth centres where I live, 262 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,320 so I was never really deprived of sport. 263 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,360 It was just more so something I could stick to 264 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,360 and then, eventually, yeah, I sort of moulded into loving rugby. 265 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,520 [music: "Easy" by Razor and Filthy Gears] 266 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,200 I'd describe rugby as a really fun sport first and foremost. 267 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,520 It's fun, it's enjoyable but it's also very confrontational. 268 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,160 You've obviously got the wider confrontation 269 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,280 between your team and another team and then you've got the individual battles. 270 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,720 Yeah, rugby is an abrasive sport, it's very physical. 271 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,720 It's a sport for all shapes and sizes. 272 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,840 Tall, slim, short and a little bit rounder, rugby has the place for you. 273 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,640 [Biyi] It's easier than football, you know what I mean? 274 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,880 Everybody can play, you can get every type of person. 275 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,240 In football, me, 90 minutes, finished, you know what I mean? 276 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,280 But I can play rugby, so I think it's a lot more relatable sport 277 00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:14,360 than people think, than people know. 278 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,440 What made me fall in love with it? I don't know. 279 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,320 That sense of camaraderie and all that. 280 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,840 I guess it's quite a team-orientated sport 281 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,120 and I don't want to say that just for the clout cos... 282 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,240 it's not what I'm about but, yeah, I just felt a part of something 283 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,560 and it was the first time I really had that feeling. 284 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,280 The fundamental values of rugby is based on respect. 285 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:38,760 Both teams, like we spend 80 minutes 286 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,360 looking to cause damage on one another but, after the game, 287 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,920 we shake hands and let bygones be bygones. 288 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,320 [Biyi] Rugby means a lot to me. I don't know whether subconsciously or whatever, 289 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,200 because I didn't grow up with a dad, I didn't grow up with a brother. 290 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,160 Maybe that's why I love it so much. I just love being around the guys. 291 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,000 I love pushing each other. I love the environment that it gives you, 292 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,920 even with some of the coaches. 293 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,280 I'd imagine that that's how a father would be with their son, sort of thing. 294 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,600 So I see how they're willing to push, 295 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,360 how they show genuine love in the environment 296 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,040 and everybody wants the best out of each other. 297 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:26,000 And then there's the working hard aspect, where you go to really dark places 298 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,880 with somebody that you see every single day and then there's the enjoyment. 299 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,400 So you're out on nights out, then you're seeing them happy with their families, 300 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,320 you're seeing them go through life and you get to do that together. 301 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,960 So you get to experience everything together and I think 302 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,760 that's something that I've cherished a lot from rugby. 303 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,320 That's something that I've not got anywhere else. 304 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,800 It's quite a macho sport, you can't shy away from it. 305 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,120 It's very manly, so to speak. 306 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,560 So a lot of the values are how you'd want to carry yourself as a man. 307 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,600 So you want to be strong, you want to be caring, you want to be driven. 308 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,040 [Beno] I feel like adversity reveals a man's true character 309 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:14,320 and in sport you're generally provided with quite a bit of adversity 310 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,240 and in rugby, in particular, quite a lot. 311 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,640 So I just feel like you grow as a person and as a character 312 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,640 when you play sport and you play rugby. 313 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,720 Essentially, you don't know how you're going to respond 314 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,480 to a particular challenge until you're immersed in that particular challenge. 315 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,800 Because I've seen many people falter 316 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,360 when they have been in that challenge, 317 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,080 whilst others have gone on to soar. 318 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,760 So that's why you have to be put in those situations 319 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,240 to know how you're going to respond. 320 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,000 Whether, like, it's injury, selection or criticism, 321 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,480 or the media or whatever, I feel like there just comes a point 322 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,360 where you have to decide who you're going to be. 323 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,800 Everyone always has a perception of who they want to be, 324 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,080 but there comes a point where you just have to do it 325 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,480 and that's what happens in rugby, 326 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,160 and that's one of the greatest things I think it's done for me. 327 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,600 We live in a more sensitive era and my generation's a little bit more sensitive 328 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,120 due to our parents' enabling. 329 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,640 Sort of epitomised by a counsel culture, which essentially means 330 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,960 a lot of people now are a lot more entitled to their feelings. 331 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,360 As a result of people being more entitled to their feelings, 332 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,920 it puts us in a position where people like to tell you about their feelings 333 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,280 and because of their feelings they want the world to bend towards them. 334 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:00,480 Whilst in, like, high-stakes performing and high-performance environments 335 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,440 that's just not the case, you just have to get it done the way it's done. 336 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,520 No one cares about how you feel. 337 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,680 And I feel like, personally, it develops resilience in an individual. 338 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,240 You build mental calluses and as a result you become more mentally robust. 339 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,520 And that's one of the traits that I think I've developed as my career's gone on. 340 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:34,440 [Maro] I think rugby, they're... they're happy for you to, in general, 341 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,880 express yourself but within the realms of the team environment 342 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,640 and, obviously, if you come from a background 343 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,040 that is not similar to the rest, 344 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:48,480 then, obviously, the way you express yourself can differ slightly. 345 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,520 All in all, it's quite accepting, 346 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,720 but there are times when it's a little bit tricky. 347 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,200 [Beno] When you're young, black and from London, I think - 348 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,040 you talk a little bit different and you listen to a little bit different music - 349 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,200 it's like there's often a tendency to see these kids as, like, brash. 350 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,400 When that's not the case, it's just that's who they are. 351 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,640 Like, if you were to come to their environment, 352 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,200 you'd probably be the odd one out, do you know what I mean? 353 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,040 So it's just... it's a weird, weird thing that goes on in this environment. 354 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:23,920 Oh, like, no doubt there's a rugby mould, like, of course there is. 355 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,200 There's always a mould everywhere you go. 356 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:32,960 There's always rules that you've got to abide by 357 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,200 and there's a law in this world, like, it's just the way it is. 358 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,040 I feel like there was definitely a history of, 359 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,640 you have to be a certain way straight down the line, sort of vibe. 360 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,160 You do feel the pressure to be a certain type of way 361 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,080 when you go into these environments. 362 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,600 The factors that people say that you have to... that you have to be 363 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,960 has no direct correlation between rugby. 364 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,160 It's just that it's not been seen before, so it's like, 365 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,040 you're not necessarily strong enough to hold onto your identity 366 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,280 when you come into an environment like that. 367 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,560 You should be and I'd love to have been, 368 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,080 but, naturally, you see guys more successful than you, 369 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,400 bigger, stronger, richer than you and you think, 370 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,120 "I'm not strong enough to just be myself now in this situation." 371 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,040 [Anthony] It's almost like a perception - until you've earned your stripes, 372 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,000 can you fully relax and be yourself? 373 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,520 And I do believe in the idea that you have to earn your stripes 374 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,880 but I don't believe in the idea that you have to be someone you're not. 375 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,960 I'm Anthony Watson, Bath and England rugby player. 376 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,240 [camera beeps] 377 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,840 What am I going to say? Born in '94! 378 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,000 Oh, my God! 379 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,320 So I was born in Ashford. My mum's Nigerian, my dad's English. 380 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,520 I've got an older brother who was born three years before me 381 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,320 and he had lived in Nigeria up until that point. 382 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,320 And then after I was born, we moved back to Nigeria. 383 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,000 So I lived in a place called Warri in Nigeria 384 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,360 till I was about two years old, two and a half. 385 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,760 And then my little brother was born and we moved back to England. 386 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,880 I feel like the game still is a bit backwards in terms of perceptions 387 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,080 and stuff that they have of people with colour. 388 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,600 It's very difficult, it's not an easy situation because... 389 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,840 especially for, I feel, for the players who come through of colour, 390 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,440 because I feel like there's a level of bias there. 391 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,280 Or they don't get the benefit of the doubt like players who aren't of colour, 392 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:33,960 you know, with certain attitudes or with the way that they do certain things. 393 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,640 And it actually doesn't affect how they play or how they train, 394 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,200 but they're almost on the back foot before they've started, 395 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:41,680 because of how they've been perceived. 396 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,960 There's a complex history but it's all a result of people's bias 397 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,280 and the portrayal of the black athlete in the media. 398 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:53,200 [music: "Dust" by Kwaku Asante"] 399 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,320 I think people like us are 100% breaking the mould of... 400 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,240 of the perception of a rugby player. 401 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,280 Breaking the mould doesn't necessarily have to be seen as a negative thing. 402 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,360 I think it's extremely positive because in the country that we're in, 403 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,120 in the world that we're in, there's a lot of people like us 404 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,040 and if they don't see people like them playing professional rugby, 405 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:31,040 achieving to some of the high standards that the boys have achieved, 406 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,240 they're going to think that, "I don't fit there." 407 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,200 I think representation matters, 408 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,960 but the lack of representation isn't the main issue. 409 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,960 I feel like the main issue is the perception of the sport. 410 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,320 The perception of the sport is that it's considered an elitist sport. 411 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,880 But it's a weird thing because to start playing rugby at a grass-roots level, 412 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,520 it's no more expensive than to play football. 413 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,320 And it's not a country club, like tennis or golf, 414 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,600 yet it's considered an elitist sport and that's generally because 415 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,520 it's played in private schools rather than in state schools. 416 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,240 So the overall issue is that it's a perception thing not a cost thing. 417 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,960 I'd probably say rugby does have a bit of a class problem still. 418 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,240 The main example I can think of at the moment is the way that 419 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,800 Genge answered one of those questions in the Six Nations. 420 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,200 I mean, before you get interviewed, yeah, 421 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,520 you'll have like your media officer come up to you and say like, 422 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,480 "You can't say this, you can't do that. We want to talk about this, not that." 423 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,040 I'm like, "Fuck me, do you want to do the interview?" 424 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,040 Here's the moment you've been waiting for, Ellis Genge. 425 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,640 [female interviewer] Yeah, who's enjoying a beer. It's well deserved. 426 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,360 Yeah, he was drinking a beer, which is not out of the ordinary for Genge at all. 427 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,920 I'm having a 330ml beer after a game of rugby. 428 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,120 Like, I've just been battered for however long. 429 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,400 People were saying how unprofessional he was in the way that he answered. 430 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,520 -I don't know, I can't remember. -[female interviewer laughs] 431 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,520 Although it was like 20 minutes ago. 432 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,440 Um... it's all a bit of a blur, happens quite quickly, don't it? 433 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,720 He was fully just being himself. 434 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,120 You know, he spoke exactly how he'd speak normally. 435 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,480 Like, you got a lot of sausages saying things that 436 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,720 just come into their head and like what are they on about? 437 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,720 I show a little bit of character and I just get slandered for it. 438 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,080 For me that was just a big, not a wake-up call, 439 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,160 but it was like alarm bells in my head were going off, like. 440 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,560 I don't understand how people can have such a problem with him 441 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,600 just answering a question how he wanted to answer a question. 442 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,480 I mean like, we go out and win in Scotland the way in that... 443 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,360 I was about to swear, sorry. ...in the rain, um... 444 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,800 and now everyone's singing our praises. 445 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,040 Whatever, innit? Like, we're on to the next job 446 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:31,640 and I'm sure we'll have more critics. 447 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,600 And, yeah, it was good to get the win, that's all I've got to say, to be honest. 448 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,600 [Anthony] There's a big void in terms of the relationship 449 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,640 between the media in this country and the players, 450 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,520 and I think it's like the chicken and the egg, which one's going to come first? 451 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,760 Because the players aren't going to open up and be themselves 452 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,800 round the media and then them go off and write a crazy story about you. 453 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,160 And likewise, the media aren't going to be, you know, 454 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,440 onboard until you give them something to write about. 455 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,280 Rugby has a perception of how you should be and how you act. 456 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,120 Certain aspects of personality have to be put to one side 457 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,880 and say, "Not today." Like, don't show this part because 458 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,480 that's not going to help you progress in your rugby career. 459 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,000 Fans and stuff aren't going to be able to see the true people behind 460 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,800 some of their... their role models and it's a bit sad, really. 461 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,960 The amount of players in rugby that must feel that type of squash, I guess, 462 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,040 to fit the mould and not be themselves, you know, it's not easy. 463 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,920 Music is huge for me. I'm not making excuses saying, 464 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,840 "Oh, rugby means you can't do music." 465 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,720 But your first priority is, "I've got to be a good rugby player." 466 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,040 You don't think I can bring that sort of part of me over here. 467 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,000 You think, right, I've got to impress these people 468 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,720 and I don't want them to think I don't take this thing seriously. 469 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,360 So for a long time I neglected music. 470 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,480 I've always been passionate about listening to music, 471 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,120 but I neglected my own music. 472 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,120 [piano plays] 473 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,000 So I was just nervous. I was like, "Oh, I'm a rugby player! I'm in the front row. 474 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,240 I'm not meant to be this emotional guy 475 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,880 talking about how you feel on an instrumental sort of thing." 476 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,200 But I definitely feel like it's changing and ever since I started to release music, 477 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,160 it's surprised me how many people have warmed to it, people that I thought 478 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,360 were straight down the line, rugby players, not much more else about them. 479 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,480 They've sent me personal, private messages. 480 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,760 They've come up to me, like, "B, when's the new music?" 481 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,920 And to me, it's so refreshing and it's almost like... 482 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,000 the rugby world was waiting for people to show their personality. 483 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,480 It was waiting for people to show themselves, just nobody ever did it. 484 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,880 Everybody was just like looking left and right, 485 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,320 like, "Are we supposed to do this?" 486 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,640 It's definitely changing and it's definitely got to a point where 487 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,600 your teammates want to know more about you and it helps you 488 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,160 on the pitch if you know the guy next to you. 489 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,560 My music doesn't jeopardise rugby but I'm trying to grow exponentially in both. 490 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,440 It's that belief in yourself that I always come back to. 491 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,200 You've got to belief in yourself and be yourself. 492 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,600 Nothing's ever as bad as it seems. 493 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,120 You might think the whole world's watching you, judging you, 494 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,200 but then you take that step and then you realise that it wasn't, 495 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,680 it wasn't how it was, so I think people are starting to realise 496 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,040 that you can be yourself and not be a bad rugby player. 497 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,560 You can succeed and still have more to you. 498 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,360 And I think everybody's warming up to that idea. 499 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,600 The issue with rugby is there's a lack of demand 500 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,160 and we have to ask ourselves why is there a lack of demand? 501 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,640 It doesn't come from the product, the product is good. 502 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,400 I feel like the lack of demand 503 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,040 comes from people not knowing about the sport. 504 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,240 Or people from similar communities to myself not knowing about the sport. 505 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,880 [Ellis] Rugby's always been a sort of, like, a posh sport 506 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,080 and it's only been professional for 20-odd years or so, 507 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,520 so it's not really developed that much in, in that time period. 508 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,800 Obviously, the money's got bigger, seems the market's got bigger and that, 509 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,600 but the actual brand of people that play it has always been very, very similar. 510 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,280 I think rugby traditionally has been an elitist sport. 511 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,520 If you look at the '90s, it's a sport that mainly public schools played. 512 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,360 To get into to these public schools 513 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,520 you have to have a little bit of money in your pocket 514 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,960 and that then puts a barrier to a number of different communities, 515 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:50,960 different people from different walks of life, 516 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,720 so it's not all-encompassing with that. 517 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,000 Just the way we're pictured in general by the public. 518 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,200 I think it's very so much still that chino wearing, 519 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,800 shirt and tie wanker, sort of set-up, like. 520 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,480 Well, that's what... It's definitely like that in Bristol anyway. 521 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,880 I just played for England. I come back off the tour or whatever, 522 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,360 and people were like, "So what do you do for a job then?" 523 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,680 I'm like, "I play rugby." "Yeah, yeah, but what do you do during the week?" 524 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,480 "No, no, no, I play rugby." "Yeah, you train on the evenings. 525 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,200 Fucking seven till nine, but what do you do in the...?" "No, no, no." 526 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,120 That's what you do. Like, it's actually your fucking job! 527 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,160 And I think as time has gone on it has become better, 528 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,360 but I think we're still at a period now that the best private schools 529 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,960 often have the best rugby teams and a lot of those players 530 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,600 have gone on further to become professional rugby players 531 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,560 and England players and so on and so forth. 532 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,400 So I do think there is something in it about, like, breaking down barriers 533 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,880 and making rugby increasingly more... 534 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,960 more open to more communities. 535 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,120 As I said, I do think we're moving in a positive direction, 536 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,600 but I think more can be done to, you know, 537 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,120 to make rugby more encompassing for... 538 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,960 Well, from my friends point of view, 539 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,920 they always say to me, "Rugby's a bit of a posh sport, innit, Els? A posh sport?" 540 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,800 And I'm like, "Yeah, I mean it is, but there's, like, there's... 541 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,080 Posh people are cool, man." Like, some of my best mates are proper posh 542 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,760 and well off, like, it don't make you a bad person. 543 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,120 [Beno] When I was 16, I was fortunate enough to get a scholarship 544 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,240 and a bursary to a private school to play rugby at Dulwich College. 545 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,000 People talk about private schools negatively but for me, personally, 546 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,520 going to Dulwich was like one of the best things that could have happened to me, 547 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,000 not only in a rugby sense but, like, the people I met while I was at Dulwich. 548 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,400 I remember, like, I'd go back into the barbershop 549 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,880 and everyone in the barbershop was happy. The barbershop, my guy Buddy, 550 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,240 would shout and be like, "Him go there!" 551 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,760 In his accent and that, and be shouting about the school I went to and that. 552 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,800 So everyone was just so happy for me where I came from, like, 553 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,720 even my friends, like everyone from the area was just so happy that 554 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,240 I could go to that school, so... 555 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,600 I don't know, like, there are... there are negatives around the private school, 556 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,200 but I only had a positive experience and I'm not trying to say, "Stop it," 557 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:12,120 or only... I'm trying to say don't let rugby only be played at private schools. 558 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,440 Let it be played everywhere else as well. 559 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,520 When I first arrived here, it was sort of like, um... 560 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,440 Actually, on my first day, do you remember? Did you help me out? 561 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,640 -Yes! -[they all laugh] 562 00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:29,440 -Bro. -Me, you and Mira. 563 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,360 Yeah, bro, people were helping me out. I was like, "Ah, this is nice." 564 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,040 That was the level before you came here. 565 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,600 I was like, "The people are nice here, you know!" I was like, "OK!" 566 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,040 Even from, like, years before, like, Year Eight times, 567 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,400 we were hearing about you. 568 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,640 -There was madness here one time. -What did you do? Was it a game? 569 00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:46,760 -Yeah. -Yeah, I remember that. 570 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,120 After that, people were talking like there was this... 571 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,440 an animal that was just running through people. 572 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,360 -[laughter] -An animal! 573 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,000 So you were real player player from young? 574 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,840 -We're just trying to get it how we lived. -[laughter] 575 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,000 -How we lived? -Oh! 576 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,520 [Beno] So what memories did you men have? 577 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,560 I remember initially it being a culture shock. 578 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,480 That's one thing that sticks out in my mind. 579 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,120 Exactly, me and T joined at 11 years old, so you can imagine coming from 580 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,640 Peckham, Camberwell straight into Dulwich College was mad. 581 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,560 It was a big culture shock, a very big culture shock. 582 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,480 You get a little bit of imposter syndrome because... 583 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,000 -Most definitely. -You know, you look around you, 584 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,880 and you don't really relate to all the history 585 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,680 and all the, you know, middle-class... wealth. 586 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,000 Cos you're not used to seeing yourself in certain kind of environments. 587 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,080 Exactly. 588 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,160 [Beno] I sit there with entitled people and I have this conversation, 589 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,880 and they're like, "Oh, but..." like, 590 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,760 "Could you, could people from, like, your area not go and just... 591 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:55,200 just do well at school and then get good jobs and work really hard 592 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,440 and then have a good job, do you know what I mean? 593 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,120 And then have children?" It doesn't work like that like. 594 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,840 -They don't understand the reality. -Exactly, like... 595 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,560 They don't understand when they're born in... when you're born in, like, Barnes, 596 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,200 and your parents went to private school and then you go to a private school, 597 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,960 you're just following the status quo, big man, you're not doing anything special. 598 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,200 Um... You're not changing things. 599 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,280 There's a certain amount of information they're used to receiving. 600 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,640 -Exactly. -Most definitely. 601 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:21,000 The difficulty level and friction that you're coming across is so much lower. 602 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,240 Exactly, like, yeah. 603 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,040 You're doing something that other people haven't done before. 604 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,880 And to do that, people don't understand that, 605 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,240 like they can't fathom it because they're in their bubble of privilege 606 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,840 and lack of understanding, really. 607 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,560 Being honest, it took me a while to fully understand or to fully see that 608 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,720 there was a problem in rugby in terms of people of colour, 609 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,760 or the class issue, 610 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,680 and it took me to getting to know 611 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,320 guys like Beno and Genge 612 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,160 and Sinck's problems and things that they faced that I hadn't faced 613 00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,280 because I went to a private school 614 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,480 and, you know, was pretty lucky in terms of the way I grew up. 615 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaking to them, you know, it kind of opened my eyes up 616 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,480 and made me realise that, you know, some things you kind of 617 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,840 do have to take a stand on because it's bigger than just you. 618 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,000 That is important, not just for you but for people coming through 619 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,360 and for the next generation of rugby players to make sure that, 620 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,560 you know, some of things that - not that we went through, 621 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,520 because I don't want to make it sound like it was 622 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,920 a serious battle or anything because it wasn't, 623 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,120 but for them to not feel constricted 624 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,760 and so that they can just... the sport can be more open generally. 625 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,600 Rugby has a privileged history and therefore 626 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,720 it's happened to just stay within the communities of privileged people 627 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,200 and doesn't really come into communities like mine. 628 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,320 But, fortunately, I was happy - I just went to a school that played rugby, 629 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,520 so I was able to benefit from the sport 630 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,640 and continue to benefit from the sport, 631 00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:01,000 but I just feel more people should have that chance, essentially. 632 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,000 It is getting better slowly. 633 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,200 It's by no means perfect and it's by no means where it should be 634 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,480 in this day and age, especially when you look at other sports and stuff like that, 635 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,680 but it is improving. 636 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,760 If you look at the 2003 England Rugby team, 637 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,320 there was one person of colour within that team, which was 638 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,440 Jason Robertson, and a fantastic player he was. 639 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,440 If you look at the 2020 England Rugby team, 640 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,640 or 2019 England Rugby team, there's, I don't know, 641 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,800 probably about the third of the team 642 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,160 who probably don't fit the description of Anglo-Saxon or Caucasian. 643 00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,040 And I think it's coming to a stage where 644 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:53,280 rugby is becoming a bit more representative of the society 645 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,080 in which England is now today. 646 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,880 I feel rugby, as in its essence, 647 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,160 rugby in its simplest form, is everybody's game. 648 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,680 The way rugby is portrayed 649 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,000 means that it's not everybody's game, if that makes sense. 650 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,360 I still feel like people can get pushed out 651 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,960 of the sport for acting in ways that... 652 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,840 are not consistent with the... the rugby... 653 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,600 Not necessarily the rugby mould, but also the rugby values and stuff, you know. 654 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,200 People get pushed out very easily and once you've got a reputation in the sport, 655 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,640 I feel like it follows you everywhere. 656 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,560 You know, once you set you stall out, it kind of sticks with you for a long time. 657 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,800 It's a tough one because you've got to encourage players to be themselves 658 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,480 but again you've got to, you've got to make sure that they're aware of 659 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:57,680 the repercussions of... of doing things that are not consistent with rugby values, 660 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,520 or, you know, the culture behind rugby so, you know, it's not an easy answer, 661 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,920 but I do think there's a lot of players who've been pushed away from the game 662 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,520 that could have been, could have been excellent in the sport, 663 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,200 or guys who are still in the sport but could have been even better, 664 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,080 but the reputation that's preceded them from not following rugby norms 665 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,640 has led to their downfall, type thing. 666 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,240 I think rugby is a game which can be for all, 667 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,840 in terms of how rugby tries to get across to certain communities. 668 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:28,600 I think it can do a much better job. 669 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,280 I think we're only scratching the surface in terms of talent, 670 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,680 in terms of the communities that rugby can really like get into 671 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,640 and make a bigger impact. 672 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:41,720 I think if rugby does that, then in the long run it'll benefit the whole game 673 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,920 as they'll be better players, more diverse players, 674 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,920 players from a whole range of different backgrounds 675 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,800 and be more representative of the Britain in which we live in today. 676 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,240 If there's like a more diverse group of people playing rugby union, like, 677 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,600 I just struggle to see where the loser is, like. 678 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,880 I just can't see who, who fails in this situation, 679 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,920 I feel it's just beneficial for the game and beneficial for the people that play. 680 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,880 So I just struggle to see the loser, bro. 681 00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:30,280 Everybody is definitely capable of playing rugby, 682 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,320 but whether people know they like rugby or not 683 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,840 is based on whether they've been exposed to it. 684 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,400 Community outreach programmes, like, just getting into communities, 685 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,920 even where it might feel, where it might feel uncomfortable, 686 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,160 where it might feel that rugby's not wanted, it's just... 687 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,440 They don't have it, so it's alien to them 688 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,600 so I feel like into those schools, into state schools in the boroughs. 689 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,440 You tap into a group of players that you know potentially 690 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,000 hadn't seen rugby as an avenue. 691 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,520 By players being themselves and, you know, being open, I guess, 692 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,760 to the public, you know, it kind of gives kids from where they're from, 693 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,200 who potentially might have had less opportunity, 694 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,640 someone to look up to and think, "Oh, I can do that as well." 695 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,280 [Biyi] Whether there's just one little boy sitting in a flat in North London saying, 696 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,960 "I want to be a rugby player. No one looks like me. I could look like that guy." 697 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,120 So whether it's one, two, 10,000, 698 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,640 we are role-models and, whether we believe it or know it or not, 699 00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:24,960 there are people looking up to us, there are people saying, 700 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,640 "Oh, that rugby guy, that guy that plays rugby, that's kind of like me." 701 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:30,520 I see it in my posts. 702 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,200 People tag their cousins or little... just young black boys playing rugby 703 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,040 and they say, "Oh, you play like that guy, you play like that guy!" 704 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,360 And it's refreshing to see and I just want to encourage that. 705 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,520 Yeah, I mean, look, if I can open up the doors for other people to come in 706 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,560 and make a career for themselves and if they actually know it's a career 707 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,520 by the time I've finished playing, I think I'll be happy. 708 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,640 But there's still so much more to do and I think the more we sort of 709 00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:55,680 suppress people's personality in rugby and let people 710 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,600 carry on the way they're going with just being robots, 711 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,960 and that real bland sort of way they get interviewed, 712 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,560 and the way they get like sort of sold to the media. 713 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,600 I think it's just not portrayed in the right way for working-class people 714 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,720 to come in and be a part of it. 715 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,800 [Biyi] There's already situations and examples of 716 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,840 taking rugby down to grass-root levels 717 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:23,320 and how people with issues and with anger issues or family struggles, 718 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,400 they've found solace in rugby and they've been able to find an output, 719 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,960 a nice confrontational output that doesn't get them in jail, 720 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,480 that doesn't get them hurt on the streets, that doesn't affect their family, 721 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,200 and it's all purely positive and you're growing as a person, 722 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,720 and as a player and you're getting fitter and healthier, 723 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,560 and you're smiling more through rugby. 724 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,040 Rugby can be that vehicle to change a lot of people's lives, I think, 725 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,040 and just not enough people are exposed to it. 726 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,240 I'm not even thinking just in this country, bro. 727 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,440 Like, rugby has the potential to be huge. 728 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,160 The potential is... 729 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:05,520 As in, we can't even fathom it because we're not there yet. 730 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,280 This country could be the catalyst for it because I think in other countries, 731 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,760 it also has a privileged history in which only privileged people play rugby union. 732 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,280 I think there are plenty more people who may even be more athletic than me, 733 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,840 more gifted than me, who just aren't exposed to the sport 734 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,600 and I think if there was more exposure, 735 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,760 I think the results would go through the roof. 736 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,400 And if you tap into that and other people just play rugby union, 737 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,720 it doesn't pertain to your background, to what sport you play, 738 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,880 then we're laughing, bro, we're laughing. 739 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,440 Like, we can't really know what it's capable of, innit? 740 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,760 I think it will blow everyone's mind the amount of kids who are driven, 741 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,640 who want to drive themselves to a sport, who want to change their lives round, 742 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:54,560 who want to change their family's lives, or even if they want to make good friends 743 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,640 and be good people. It could be a great avenue, it could be a great sport. 744 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,240 I think literally the whole country could love it. 745 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,600 Players continuing to be open and trying to be themselves 746 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,520 wherever possible will help. 747 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,080 Guys like Genge and Beno and Sinck have set out 748 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,320 a good start in my opinion to... 749 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,440 to encouraging people of different backgrounds 750 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,720 to being themselves and to being good role models for that. 751 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,640 The more success I've had in the sport, like, it's sort of... 752 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:31,640 it's sort of helped raised awareness. 753 00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:33,800 I don't want to sound like a fucking cult hero but... 754 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,520 it's sort of helped raise awareness in my area of rugby, in general. 755 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,080 Like my friends started following it and they come to games and that. 756 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,760 They stand out like a sore thumb in the box at Twickenham, 757 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,120 but it's been good for the area, definitely. 758 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,040 Hopefully, more to come. 759 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,880 I mean, being honest, first and foremost, 760 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,600 you know, I want to be remembered as someone who won things, 761 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,480 but I understand and appreciate the... 762 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,200 the importance of being more than just a rugby player. 763 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,280 I'd like to be seen as a player who, who gave, 764 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,720 who gave everything he could to the sport obviously 765 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,560 and was himself alongside it. I want to be seen as a good person. 766 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,800 What would I want to be remembered for? I don't know. Um... 767 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,400 I guess I know when I hang up the boots. 768 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:21,480 Uh... 769 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,920 I just want people to... 770 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,320 I guess in a... in a time in rugby where people aren't always themselves, 771 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,200 I guess I just want people to be like, "Fucking hell, yeah! 772 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,920 That was Ellis Genge. He was always himself. 773 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,240 That was the most raw, organic version of him." 774 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,800 And if people think that, then I'll be happy, 775 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,920 irrespective of what I achieve in my career. 776 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,040 I just want to be remembered as like a man of his word. 777 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,720 On that note, I said I'd be a sick rugby player, 778 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,120 so we've kind of got to end the interview here, innit? 779 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,560 So we got to get back to work now. 780 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,760 But, yeah, I just want to be remembered as a man of my word. 781 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,240 Hopefully, by the time - in ten years, 35, when I'm tired, 782 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,920 when I call it a day - I'll be happy then, innit? 783 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:15,120 If in 15, 20 years I'm looking back 784 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,480 and I see the next crop of, like, professional rugby players 785 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,520 or just people in general, 786 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,200 and, you know, they say that I've had an impact on their life, 787 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,640 to live a certain way or be better, I think, 788 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,280 that's job done as far as I'm concerned. 789 00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:00,360 One, two, three. 790 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:01,840 [laughter] 791 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,480 This is like one of the biggest lines that I say. 792 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:12,800 I was like, bro, if every man knew how much money we can make from rugby, 793 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,160 I think everyone would have taken it that bit more seriously 794 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:17,160 when we played it, do you know what I mean? 795 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:19,960 Like, you'd have gone to those academy days... 796 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,040 Do you know what I mean? You would have taken it that bit more seriously 797 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,240 if you knew that big man like Bens would have his own house right now. 798 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,000 -[laughter] -Is that for real? 799 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,360 Innit? That's what I mean, innit? That's just the facts, like. 800 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,440 There's a number of characters from our own childhood 801 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,480 that we know played rugby that are in compromised positions right now, 802 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,440 -that didn't have to be if they knew. -And they were cold. 803 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,040 -And they were really good. -They were cold. 804 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,680 They'd have just taken it more seriously if they knew, bruv. 805 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,720 And some people might not know but when everyone's doing something, 806 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,360 you just follow, like, do you know what I mean? 807 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,560 If everyone's just doing it, you'll just naturally follow 808 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,160 and continue doing it and then, "Oh, look, innit? I'm playing rugby"! 809 00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:59,880 That's basically what happened to me, like, it sort of like... 810 00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:02,360 I wasn't trying to play rugby, I wasn't trying to be a rugby player. 811 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,440 And then all of a sudden it's like, "Oh, here's a contract!" 812 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,560 And I'm like, "Oh, there's money!" 813 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,840 Like, to play rugby that I was doing for free. "Oh, safe, innit? " Like... 814 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,240 "I could do this," you know what I mean? "Oh, there's more?" 815 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:14,800 I remember that moment. 816 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,480 Us having that conversation and you were like, 817 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,880 you felt so grateful and lucky to get paid to play this game. 818 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,240 Yeah, bro! 819 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,600 -You couldn't believe it. I was there... -Honestly, bruv! 820 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,800 Honestly, I'm getting paid to do what people were paying to do, 821 00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:30,240 do you know what I mean, like? 822 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:31,880 I'm getting paid to do what people are paying to do. 823 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,720 -Now for real. -You know what I mean. Like? 824 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,160 And I was like, boy, how many more people could come and do this, bro? 825 00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:39,400 Like, come on, let's bring the whole ends through, bro! 826 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,360 Let's bring... Everyone, come! Come join us, man. 827 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,120 Oh! 828 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:12,280 Uh, my name's Beno Obano. I'm a superstar director, producer. 829 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,840 No, man, man, man! It's no good. It's no good. Sorry! 830 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,120 I'm just not going to do it! 831 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,520 [music: "Shomo" by DRB Lasgidi Feat. Olamide] 832 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:47,640 No, no, no, I'm not, no. 833 00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,640 I'll do it. Just gonna stare at him. 834 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,720 Probably yes is the answer. 835 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,320 I've just... I've just completely gone in a circle! Oh, my God! 836 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:29,600 [camera beeps] 837 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,280 Takes me ages, bro, I'm telling you. 838 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:42,160 Ah! 839 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:44,800 -Imagine. -[camera beeps] 840 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,120 Ah, no way! 841 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:48,560 [camera beeps] 842 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,880 No, honestly, that's noise pollution, bro, like. 843 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,880 People have to live, you know. 844 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,360 Which low point have I had in my career? 845 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:23,680 I don't know if I've got the answers to... Oh, fuck, what was the question? 846 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:24,760 Sorry. 847 00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,720 Cos that's the same thing for you! 848 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,320 We good to go? 849 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:48,800 That's a wrap, B.