WEBVTT FILE

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[light music playing]

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[Narrator]
When I was a kid, I remember finding this magazine

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that my dad had laying around.

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And I was thumbing through it,

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and I came across this picture,
and I was...

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I saw this guy in it,

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he was wearing a business suit
and a tie.

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Kinda looked like my dad
a little bit.

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But there was like
all this weird stuff in the...
In the picture.

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There was like this weird
red bird in the background,

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and there was this dude
in a lab coat,
looked like a scientist.

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And this weird large object
covered by a red sheet.

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And I was trying to figure out
what was going on,

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and so, I looked at the caption, and underneath it said,

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Marvin Glass: Game Inventor.

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And I was like, "Game Inventor?"

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I didn't even think
that was a job.

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[upbeat music playing]

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[light music playing]

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[sighs]

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So here's like kinda what we're
playing right now, section.

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Scythe...
Pretty... pretty awesome game,
one of my favorites of all time.

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Um, and Rising Sun.

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One of my favorite games
of all time, as well.

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[Jason]
Also, [INAUDIBLE] best game.

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But the most exciting thing
for me is to share a new game
with someone else.

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And when that game is mine,
it's like icing on the cake.

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And nothing gives me
more pleasure in,
on a board game night

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than to see people playing my
game and laughing, you know,

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hooting and hollering...
talking trash
and throwing stuff.

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If no one's standing on a chair,
if friendships are on the line.

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I don't know, there's probably
some better games.

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[light music playing]

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[Charlie] I did all the art
for my first game: Trekking.

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I like to be a creator.

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If I make a game,
I'm gonna put my name on it

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because I would sign my name
to a work of art.

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The first time you get to hold
something you make,

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in your hands,
that's the best feeling.

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It's fleeting, you don't get
to enjoy it for very long,
but it's amazing.

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[Scott] Alright,
so this is my, uh, bookshelf,
maybe a very messy bookshelf,

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where I have all my sketchbooks,

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and these are where I keep track
of my game ideas.

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So, there's a whole bunch
of them there.

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These are, uh,
"Scott's Book of Great Ideas."

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Uh, and, I, uh,
have them numbered.
This one is number twenty-eight.

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I think I'm up
to about thirty now.

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I carry a sketchbook with me
wherever I go.

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We'll go to the movies.
I will have that sketchbook
with me.

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We go out to eat,
I bring a sketchbook with me.

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I am always thinking
about games.

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I always say that Walt Disney
didn't start out his career

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with the intention
of creating the Disney store.

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He started out making cartoons,
and he made
really good cartoons.

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So, I'm gonna start out
making board games,
really good board games.

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[light music playing]

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[Nashra] Growing up,
there was always the expectation
that as a young Pakistani girl,

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I would get married
and have children
by the time I'm twenty.

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I knew it wasn't gonna be
in my future.

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As a kid, just in England,
I would go to the rag market,
pick up a bunch of games...

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throw out the rules...

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and then mix and match parts
and try to create
my own version of it.

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So, I guess my experience
of being a game designer
started when I was young.

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[Narrator] I think everyone on Earth has played and enjoyed some kind of tabletop game.

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They're just so universal.
Whether they played them
when they were younger,

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whether it's something
they learned to play
when they're older,

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whether it was something
that was within their family,

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tabletop games are almost
just a universal phenomenon.

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[Elan] Some of my best memories
growing up

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were playing games
with my brothers.

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We used to sit around the table
and make up house rules for Uno,

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or try to figure out
how to play Monopoly
and cheat without being caught.

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Those were the games
that really taught us
how to play together,

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and kinda defined interaction.

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Later on, we started playing
more elaborate games,

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like Eurogames, you know,
Settlers of Catan...

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Puerto Rico... Carcassonne...

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Those really opened up my eyes
to what a board game
could actually be.

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And the people
who made those games

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put their names right there
on the box.

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They... They were famous,
you know, Klaus Teuber...

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Reiner Knizia...
Andreas Seyfarth...

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I was in awe of those guys.

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Today, we're in the middle of...
a tabletop renaissance.

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It's a three-billion-dollar
industry,
and every year it grows.

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There is conventions,
and awards,

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and now, independent designers
can get into the action
without game publishers

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because of the invention
of things like crowdfunding.

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And I looked at that
whole ecosystem,

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and I thought,
"Oh, man, I wanna play, too."

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I have, uh, a friend,
Shane Small who, uh, said

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"What if we tried to build
Russian Roulette out of cards,
and uh, how would that work?"

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And what would it look like?

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And we started tinkering
with the idea
over the course of a few weeks.

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Um, and we created this game
called "Bomb Squad,"

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which was literally
a deck of, uh, poker cards

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that we took a Sharpie
and scribbled all over.

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This card, if you draw this one,
you explode. It's the bomb.

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We scribbled
all over these cards,

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and we played it
with a bunch of friends,
and it worked great.

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Everyone became so addicted
to this game.

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[Elan] We got the game
to a really good place...

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A place where everyone
we showed it to
really enjoyed playing.

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And one of the people that we
showed it to, uh, was Matt Inman

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who draws The Oatmeal,
creator of The Oatmeal.

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And he looked at it,
and he said...

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"Guys, this is...
This is amazing.

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This is the most fun I've ever
had playing a card game...
but it has no soul.

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Um, what if, you, uh,
let me partner with you guys,
and we'll make just two changes?

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One, uh, you let me illustrate
all the cards.

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Uh, and add a little bit
of that soul to it.

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Uh, and, two, is we rename it
from "Bomb Squad"

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to "Exploding Kittens"
because... the Internet."

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And, uh, those were two really,
really good decisions.
And Exploding Kittens was born.

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-[explodes]
-The way that we approached
Kickstarter,

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um, was very different
from the way most people do.

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Originally,
our goal on Kickstarter was,

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"Okay,
we got this cool game idea,

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we'll put it up on Kickstarter,
let's try to raise $10,000...

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that will allow us to print up
500 copies of the game.

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That's all we need to do.
That's the minimum print run
our manufacturer needs,

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and it's a little
weekend project.

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None of us are really taking
this seriously, so...

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uh, we'll just,
that'll be our goal."

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We hit that in seven minutes.

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[light music playing]

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The game eventually went on
to surpass the $10,000 mark,

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and, eventually made
$9 million on Kickstarter...

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uh, breaking
every Kickstarter record.

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Um, in fact, this game
had more backers on Kickstarter,

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um, it more than doubled
the second place,

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uh, number of backers
on Kickstarter,
and I don't just mean in games,

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I mean, any project
in Kickstarter history
in any category.

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[light music playing]

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We've already hit our goal
in just a few minutes,

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so we don't care
about funding anymore.
Let's work on crowd.

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So,
we made our same stretch goals.

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Look, we will also double
the number of cards,

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and give you the fancy
carrying case,
and upgrade the box,

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and do all the normal
stretch goal stuff,

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but we're not going to associate
that with money.

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We don't care
about money anymore.

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We don't want you
to give us any more money.

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Instead, we're gonna throw
a huge Internet party
and everybody is invited.

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So, to get these stretch goals,
we want you to take twenty
pictures of a real taco cat...

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Taco cat is one
of the characters in our game,

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show us what a real taco cat
looks like.

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Or take pictures of you
and fifty friends
all wearing cat ears,

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or do any kind of ridiculous,
hilarious... party-based thing.

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And every time they got a
certain number of these things,

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we made the game
a little bit better...

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because we don't care
about money.

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And, the result was we had more
backers on this project
than any project in history.

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The question
we get all the time is,
"Hey, you made $9 million,

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what are you gonna spend
all that money on?"

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Um, the reality is,
we don't make $9 million, right?
Kickstarter takes their share.

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Uh, the credit card company
takes their share.

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We have to print 700,000
decks of cards.

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We have to pay taxes.
We have to hire a boatload
of people.

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Um, the end amount...
almost all of what we have left

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goes into the production
of the cards

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and the formation
of the company.

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Nobody got rich
off of Kickstarter.

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Um, what happens,
is you get the enormous
privilege of starting a company,

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and it's incredible because
you own hundred percent of it.

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Um... it's unlike any start-up
I've ever run before

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in that you get to hit
the ground running.

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Kickstarter is actually
the perfect phrase.

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That company
has been kickstarted.

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[Narrator] I'm not saying
that success like this
will happen for everyone,

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but there has never been a
better time to go make a game.

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[Jason]
I have always created games.

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Ever since I was a kid, I was
always working on something.

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And I... I think back,
uh when people ask me,
"Why do you create games?

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Wh... When is the first game
you created?"

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I never really thought about it.
It... It was like it was kinda
like Dungeons and Dragons,

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it was just...
an effortless sort of, uh...
Effortless sort of drive.

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It's just what I... What I would
do in my spare time.

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My name is Jason Serrato
and I'm the designer
of Thug Life.

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In the '70s, where I grew up
in the city, Pico Rivera...

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it was the Angel Dust capital
of the world...

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and uh, a lot of violence,
a lot of street violence.

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And especially growing up
as a young nerd

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at a time when being a nerd
was not cool at all.

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When- when walking home
the right way was...
Was critical [inaudible]

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getting beat up
or just being harassed, right?

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My house is probably
another half mile this way,

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and uh, we would play D&D
at the library.

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We actually... I remember
they actually were crazy enough

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h to buy Lord of the Rings books
and D&D manuals, and...

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they may or may not
have found their way

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into my poor friends' backpacks
on the way home.

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[door clanks]

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Huzzah!

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Um...

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these are my pre-paid miniatures
for gaming.

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That... That idea of...
Of being a gamer at that time,

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as a refuge, right, uh, kinda
is like a nerd sanctuary...

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didn't really land with me
'til... 'Til much later.

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You know, I'm like, wow,
that kinda saved me, right.

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You know, I'm like a fourteen,
fifteen-year-old kid

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playing D&D with like some
fifty-year-old lady, you know...

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or some sixty-year-old
crippled dude in a wheelchair...

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or some really colorful
characters of all shapes
and sizes.

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All sexes, all backgrounds,
all nationalities...

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cause if it hadn't been
Dungeons & Dragons

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or having been board games
and role-playing games, um...

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I would've been running
on the streets

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with a lot of other
knuckleheads...
and that would've been...

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I would've probably
had a very different life.

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Thug Life is a miniature,
combat,
uh, crime-simulation board game.

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We take on the role of the boss,
and you control a gang of thugs
in the streets...

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uh, you're committing crimes,
doing drive-bys,

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I like to say it's kinda fun
for the whole family sorta thing

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that always gives people
a big chuckle.

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And if I could just get
a few kids off the real streets
to play in these phony streets,

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I think that's a win,
in my book.

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[Eric] When you look at the game
on a table,

221
00:13:06.568 --> 00:13:09.440
there's something about
that game, just looking at it.

222
00:13:09.484 --> 00:13:11.747
Either the way people are
interacting with the pieces,

223
00:13:11.791 --> 00:13:13.575
or the way the game
just stands on its own

224
00:13:13.618 --> 00:13:16.883
that compels you to want to
take a second look at it, right?

225
00:13:16.926 --> 00:13:19.146
Uh, take a new game
like Photosynthesis

226
00:13:19.189 --> 00:13:22.453
which is one of the most
beautiful productions
I've seen in a long time.

227
00:13:22.497 --> 00:13:24.281
That game has amazing
table presence.

228
00:13:24.325 --> 00:13:27.502
You walk by a table, you,
from looking across the room...

229
00:13:27.545 --> 00:13:31.419
your eyes are drawn to it,
and you are instantly curious,

230
00:13:31.462 --> 00:13:34.596
and you kind of have an idea
of what this game is like...

231
00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:38.992
just by looking at it because...
they're tabletop games.

232
00:13:39.035 --> 00:13:41.342
Why on Earth would you not want
to have table presence?

233
00:13:41.385 --> 00:13:46.303
So games have three pieces
which are flavor, mechanics,
and data.

234
00:13:46.347 --> 00:13:47.827
And so, flavor is the theme.

235
00:13:54.834 --> 00:13:57.053
And mechanics is what you do
in the game.

236
00:14:03.494 --> 00:14:06.454
The data is what information
is stored in the game.

237
00:14:06.497 --> 00:14:09.631
Every time I am making a
decision when I'm making a game,

238
00:14:09.674 --> 00:14:11.763
I'm trying to make
the game better,

239
00:14:11.807 --> 00:14:13.374
I'm trying to make the game
play better,

240
00:14:13.417 --> 00:14:17.639
especially the functionality,
what it is that you're doing.

241
00:14:19.423 --> 00:14:23.645
Uh, my name is Charlie Bink,
and I am the creator
of Trekking the National Parks.

242
00:14:23.688 --> 00:14:27.040
[light music playing]

243
00:14:27.083 --> 00:14:31.783
I think the theme of Trekking
is its initial pull
for almost anyone

244
00:14:31.827 --> 00:14:34.612
is they see, "Oh, it's a game
about the national parks."

245
00:14:34.656 --> 00:14:37.050
You almost never see that
without it being like

246
00:14:37.093 --> 00:14:38.921
"Quizzes for ages eight and up,"
you know?

247
00:14:38.965 --> 00:14:42.142
I... I really wanted the box
and just everything about it
to say,

248
00:14:42.185 --> 00:14:43.839
"Hey, this is a game,
it's about the national parks...

249
00:14:43.883 --> 00:14:46.842
but don't worry, you know,
you're not opening a textbook."

250
00:14:46.886 --> 00:14:48.800
You know it's...
It's a game, it's about that.

251
00:14:48.844 --> 00:14:51.412
The way that the game
came about is, uh,

252
00:14:51.455 --> 00:14:54.154
we've been playing family games
for a number of years.

253
00:14:54.197 --> 00:14:56.112
He introduced us
to a game called Ticket to Ride.

254
00:14:56.156 --> 00:14:58.114
And my wife
and I were on a mission

255
00:14:58.158 --> 00:15:00.987
to visit all 59
of the country's parks.

256
00:15:01.030 --> 00:15:04.816
[light music playing]

257
00:15:06.427 --> 00:15:09.256
Each time he'd visit one,
he would take photos
of the different parks.

258
00:15:09.299 --> 00:15:13.347
Then about halfway through it,
I think it was when
I turned thirty...

259
00:15:13.390 --> 00:15:15.784
he said, "Hey, I'm gonna
take you to whatever park
you want to go to,

260
00:15:15.827 --> 00:15:17.873
which one you want to go to?"

261
00:15:17.917 --> 00:15:19.962
Uh, as long as it's the one
I haven't been to.
So, so, I had to tick one off.

262
00:15:20.006 --> 00:15:22.878
I said, "Let's go to Denali,
up in Alaska, which is awesome."

263
00:15:22.922 --> 00:15:26.403
And so, we went up there,
and then sort of while
we were there...

264
00:15:26.447 --> 00:15:27.970
I think that was
when he had said,

265
00:15:28.014 --> 00:15:30.233
"Why don't you make a game
kinda about the national parks?"

266
00:15:30.277 --> 00:15:33.323
And I kinda was like...
"God, it's a good idea, wish
I would have thought of it."

267
00:15:33.367 --> 00:15:34.977
Charlie said,
"You know, Dad, I...

268
00:15:35.021 --> 00:15:37.849
I love, I love the theme,
I hate your idea."

269
00:15:37.893 --> 00:15:40.722
[John] And he says,
"It's because it's just
a blatant knock-off of Ticket."

270
00:15:40.765 --> 00:15:44.117
So, we spent the next,
oh, gosh,
twelve months just play

271
00:15:44.160 --> 00:15:46.467
testing a whole bunch
of different iterations
of the game,

272
00:15:46.510 --> 00:15:47.859
and came up with the game
that we have now...

273
00:15:47.903 --> 00:15:50.340
The game has two components,
with the game itself

274
00:15:50.384 --> 00:15:52.516
and then the guidebook
that comes with it.

275
00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:57.173
And that was... Terry
and my contribution to it...
because we'd been to the parks,

276
00:15:57.217 --> 00:15:59.871
I took a bunch of photographs
of the... The different parks.

277
00:15:59.915 --> 00:16:01.612
[Terry]
It's not just a standard,

278
00:16:01.656 --> 00:16:04.267
here's the information that
you can get in any guidebook,

279
00:16:04.311 --> 00:16:06.878
it's a personal endeavor
that we did.

280
00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:11.709
So it's one thing to just
have an idea for a game...

281
00:16:11.753 --> 00:16:16.671
but even just getting it
to a final prototype...
that's a lot of work.

282
00:16:16.714 --> 00:16:20.457
[light music playing]

283
00:16:25.419 --> 00:16:28.857
So the prototype process has
a... A bunch of different steps.

284
00:16:28.900 --> 00:16:31.338
You... You start with the first
earliest prototype

285
00:16:31.381 --> 00:16:33.731
which is, you know,
paper and dice and...

286
00:16:33.775 --> 00:16:37.735
very, very simple things
that you're using
just so you can play-test it,

287
00:16:37.779 --> 00:16:41.130
and get it to the point
where it's good enough
to play-test with someone else.

288
00:16:41.174 --> 00:16:45.265
And your prototype
keeps getting better
and closer to the final version,

289
00:16:45.308 --> 00:16:48.094
the more people you play with
and the more feedback you get.

290
00:16:48.137 --> 00:16:50.792
And then there's what I think
of as the real prototype

291
00:16:50.835 --> 00:16:52.750
which is what you are going
to submit to the publisher.

292
00:16:52.794 --> 00:16:56.058
[light music playing]

293
00:16:56.102 --> 00:16:58.495
One of the, uh,
best prototypes that, uh,

294
00:16:58.539 --> 00:17:00.802
has been presented to us
is Rayguns and Rocketships.

295
00:17:00.845 --> 00:17:02.369
[Jerry]
Presented to me in a box...

296
00:17:02.412 --> 00:17:05.546
That was... Was beautiful.
It was a well-done prototype.

297
00:17:05.589 --> 00:17:07.243
Our initial reaction
when we, uh,

298
00:17:07.287 --> 00:17:10.986
saw the game was this was a
great genre to make a game with.

299
00:17:11.030 --> 00:17:15.469
Uh, it was not over-saturated
in the sort-of pulpy
sci-fi era...

300
00:17:15.512 --> 00:17:19.038
uh, I can immediately tell
that the designer of that game

301
00:17:19.081 --> 00:17:21.170
really had a love
for that genre.

302
00:17:21.214 --> 00:17:25.435
[dreamy music playing]

303
00:17:29.744 --> 00:17:32.355
[Scott] I just... I love games.
I've always loved games.

304
00:17:32.399 --> 00:17:36.185
I'm... I always like things
that are very toy-like...

305
00:17:36.229 --> 00:17:40.450
My name is Scott Rogers,
and I have designed
Rayguns and Rocketships.

306
00:17:42.235 --> 00:17:44.628
[Scott] When I was a kid
I really loved pirates,

307
00:17:44.672 --> 00:17:47.588
and Flash Gordon is just
kinda like a pirate movie

308
00:17:47.631 --> 00:17:49.459
and it's set
in a different genre,

309
00:17:49.503 --> 00:17:53.246
so I really love
the swashbuckley-ness
of Flash Gordon, in particular,

310
00:17:53.289 --> 00:18:00.122
but I also love how Flash Gordon
kinda treats a big galaxy
almost like a neighborhood

311
00:18:00.166 --> 00:18:02.907
where here's the neighborhood
where the lizard people live;

312
00:18:02.951 --> 00:18:04.735
and here's the neighborhood
where the lion people live;

313
00:18:04.779 --> 00:18:06.955
and here's the neighborhood
where the hawk people live.

314
00:18:08.304 --> 00:18:11.307
A really good friend of mine
who is a game designer,
his name's Hardy,

315
00:18:11.351 --> 00:18:13.701
we were sitting around one day
playing What If?

316
00:18:13.744 --> 00:18:16.356
You know,
"What if you could do this?
What if you could do that?"

317
00:18:16.399 --> 00:18:20.577
And he said,
"If you can make any game
you want, what would it be?"

318
00:18:20.621 --> 00:18:22.884
And I'm a really
big Star Wars fan,

319
00:18:22.927 --> 00:18:25.974
and I went,
"I wanna make a Star Wars game."

320
00:18:26.017 --> 00:18:29.804
And Hardy said,
"Pfft, forget Star Wars,
make your own damn Star Wars."

321
00:18:29.847 --> 00:18:34.156
And I'm like, yeah, I...
I could, I could make
my own damn Star Wars.

322
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.941
And so that's ultimately what
Rayguns and Rocketships is,

323
00:18:36.985 --> 00:18:40.597
is me creating my own version
of that universe

324
00:18:40.641 --> 00:18:43.034
'cause when I first saw
Star Wars,

325
00:18:43.078 --> 00:18:46.516
it blew my mind like it did
to everybody else my age and...
And younger.

326
00:18:46.560 --> 00:18:48.562
Um, but, what it also did to us,

327
00:18:48.605 --> 00:18:51.478
it introduced me
to all the things that inspired
George Lucas,

328
00:18:51.521 --> 00:18:54.742
uh, these are, you know,
Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers

329
00:18:54.785 --> 00:18:57.832
and so when it came time for me
to make my own damn Star Wars,

330
00:18:57.875 --> 00:19:02.228
I thought about those things
in context of what were
the things that I liked?

331
00:19:02.271 --> 00:19:04.752
What were the things
that really got me excited?

332
00:19:04.795 --> 00:19:08.059
And so, I tried to put all those
into Rayguns and Rocketships.

333
00:19:09.191 --> 00:19:13.935
In late 2010, uh,

334
00:19:13.978 --> 00:19:17.678
I caught what I thought
was a flu... A cold.

335
00:19:17.721 --> 00:19:23.379
And I had, um, a fever,
and a cough, and night sweats.

336
00:19:23.423 --> 00:19:27.340
My wife said,
"Let's get you to the hospital."
So, thank goodness for my wife.

337
00:19:27.383 --> 00:19:29.080
Ran some tests, and they said,

338
00:19:29.124 --> 00:19:32.562
"Congratulations,
you have stage 4 cancer
Hodgkin's-Lymphoma."

339
00:19:32.606 --> 00:19:35.870
Uh... took me out of action
for a good eight months

340
00:19:35.913 --> 00:19:37.306
while I was getting
chemotherapy,

341
00:19:37.350 --> 00:19:39.090
and another few months
after that

342
00:19:39.134 --> 00:19:42.355
to just kinda recover mentally
from the situation.

343
00:19:42.398 --> 00:19:45.619
Uh, my advice to everybody
out there, don't get cancer.

344
00:19:45.662 --> 00:19:48.448
When you're that sick,
you really don't feel like
doing anything.

345
00:19:48.491 --> 00:19:51.146
I, then, was like, well, I need
to do something with this time.

346
00:19:51.190 --> 00:19:53.148
I need something
to keep myself occupied.

347
00:19:53.192 --> 00:19:58.327
The board game was something
that I had been kinda noodling
with as an idea,

348
00:19:58.371 --> 00:20:01.722
but hadn't really committed
towards moving forward.

349
00:20:01.765 --> 00:20:04.638
And it was something that...
What's great
about board games is it's...

350
00:20:04.681 --> 00:20:07.510
You can make it yourself,
you don't need anyone else
to make a board game.

351
00:20:07.554 --> 00:20:11.906
I started with my sketchbook
and I drew out
all the components

352
00:20:11.949 --> 00:20:13.995
that I thought I would need
for the game,

353
00:20:14.038 --> 00:20:17.564
what, what parts I would need,
what cards, dice, miniatures,
things like that.

354
00:20:17.607 --> 00:20:22.525
Once I've got that created
in my sketchbook,
then I built the components.

355
00:20:22.569 --> 00:20:26.486
So,
this is the original prototype
for Rayguns and Rocketships,

356
00:20:26.529 --> 00:20:30.446
with my hand-drawn,
half-painted cover art.

357
00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:33.406
Uh, grab miniatures from other
games that I already had,

358
00:20:33.449 --> 00:20:36.887
like I used Adam Strange figures
from HeroClix.

359
00:20:36.931 --> 00:20:39.760
[light music playing]

360
00:20:39.803 --> 00:20:42.371
Cardboard and make cards
and write on 'em.

361
00:20:42.415 --> 00:20:46.157
Then I play-tested it a lot,
and got feedback,
and refined the rules,

362
00:20:46.201 --> 00:20:48.638
refined the rules,
refined the rules, changed
things, threw things out,

363
00:20:48.682 --> 00:20:50.074
added things in,

364
00:20:50.118 --> 00:20:52.903
and so now I have this
professional-looking thing.

365
00:20:52.947 --> 00:20:56.516
[light music playing]

366
00:20:59.997 --> 00:21:05.046
Well, most of my designs
really die in the first hour
and that's a good thing.

367
00:21:05.089 --> 00:21:08.005
The first thing you can do
as a game designer

368
00:21:08.049 --> 00:21:10.269
is fall in love
with one of your designs

369
00:21:10.312 --> 00:21:14.403
which do not work, and you put
in more time and more time.

370
00:21:14.447 --> 00:21:18.102
It's in the lost cost,
the sunk cost fallacy,

371
00:21:18.146 --> 00:21:21.628
so I've put in so much effort
into it, it has to work.

372
00:21:21.671 --> 00:21:23.891
There's tons of observation
going on there,

373
00:21:23.934 --> 00:21:26.110
a lot of notetaking
and then you analyze your notes.

374
00:21:26.154 --> 00:21:28.330
So, there's some analysis
that happens after play-testing.

375
00:21:28.374 --> 00:21:30.941
[Matt] It's a fundamentally like
integral part of the process.

376
00:21:30.985 --> 00:21:33.466
[Scott] So Protospiel is the...

377
00:21:33.509 --> 00:21:38.079
For my money, is the best
convention in tabletop gaming.

378
00:21:38.122 --> 00:21:41.648
And it's this weekend
where all these game designers

379
00:21:41.691 --> 00:21:45.129
converge to share
their game prototypes,

380
00:21:45.173 --> 00:21:48.045
and for me,
it's one of the more important
events of the year

381
00:21:48.089 --> 00:21:51.701
because it's a place
I can not only debut my games

382
00:21:51.745 --> 00:21:56.140
but I also get play-testing
from some really smart
game designers.

383
00:21:56.184 --> 00:22:00.319
And... And it's great to get
feedback from regular people,

384
00:22:00.362 --> 00:22:03.365
but getting it
from game designers,
they can very quickly focus in

385
00:22:03.409 --> 00:22:07.151
on why the game is good or bad
and give very telling advice.

386
00:22:07.195 --> 00:22:10.329
So, normally,
these would be the guys that
you would be using in your game,

387
00:22:10.372 --> 00:22:12.331
but I need to play-test
these new guys.

388
00:22:12.374 --> 00:22:16.291
So, I have four new characters
that I want you to try out.

389
00:22:16.335 --> 00:22:20.774
[upbeat music playing]

390
00:22:20.817 --> 00:22:23.907
All these game designers have
come from all over California

391
00:22:23.951 --> 00:22:25.169
and some from even
out of the state,

392
00:22:25.213 --> 00:22:27.346
to show off
their newest creations.

393
00:22:27.389 --> 00:22:29.609
But these are all games
that are still in,

394
00:22:29.652 --> 00:22:30.958
uh, they're still
being worked on.

395
00:22:31.001 --> 00:22:32.873
They're not quite ready
for prime-time yet.

396
00:22:32.916 --> 00:22:35.658
So, we're trying to knock out
all the bugs and the problems

397
00:22:35.702 --> 00:22:38.792
and having lots of cool people
come play our games for free,

398
00:22:38.835 --> 00:22:41.055
and then we get to learn
from them and, oh, what...

399
00:22:41.098 --> 00:22:43.013
What things can we do
to make our games better.

400
00:22:43.057 --> 00:22:44.754
So this game is called
Who Farted?

401
00:22:44.798 --> 00:22:49.193
And it's basically
Go Fish meets Clue
with fart noises added in.

402
00:22:49.237 --> 00:22:51.848
[woman 1] I finished the art
like a week ago, I think.

403
00:22:51.892 --> 00:22:53.546
This is fairly early
prototyping.

404
00:22:53.589 --> 00:22:55.939
I have been working on this off
and on for a couple of months.

405
00:22:55.983 --> 00:23:00.074
This is kinda first time
with a lot of strangers and...
And non-sympathetic,

406
00:23:00.117 --> 00:23:01.205
uh, players.

407
00:23:01.249 --> 00:23:03.556
[Scott] Things are gonna break.

408
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.341
Somebody's gonna come along
and find a way to play it that
you haven't thought of before

409
00:23:06.385 --> 00:23:09.083
but that's awesome because now
you can look and go, "Oh, crud,"

410
00:23:09.126 --> 00:23:13.783
is this a critical thing
that I need to fix or is this an
edge case that I can kinda go,

411
00:23:13.827 --> 00:23:17.744
"Okay, well,
maybe a slight tweak at the
rules will solve that problem."

412
00:23:21.269 --> 00:23:25.665
[dreamy music playing]

413
00:23:28.363 --> 00:23:32.411
So, in front of me is the very
first prototype of Thug Life

414
00:23:32.454 --> 00:23:38.982
but it was meant to just be
a very quick sort of experience.

415
00:23:39.026 --> 00:23:40.767
It's still pretty fast
right now,

416
00:23:40.810 --> 00:23:43.422
but, you know, obviously,
chips give you certain luxuries
of like,

417
00:23:43.465 --> 00:23:45.728
"Alright, three guys
are gonna do the thing,

418
00:23:45.772 --> 00:23:49.471
um, I'm gonna get a money, I'm
gonna get a gun, what have you."

419
00:23:49.515 --> 00:23:51.821
And, um, this was the base game.

420
00:23:51.865 --> 00:23:54.041
And um, there's no hoods,
there's no street board,

421
00:23:54.084 --> 00:23:57.348
it was meant to be playable in
a small space by casual gamers,

422
00:23:57.392 --> 00:24:02.615
but this is what we landed on
before we committed
to the first Kickstarter,

423
00:24:02.658 --> 00:24:04.007
like the miniatures
production line.

424
00:24:05.008 --> 00:24:06.619
[key clicks]

425
00:24:06.662 --> 00:24:09.665
[dreamy music playing]

426
00:24:14.931 --> 00:24:16.455
[Jason] I love miniatures.

427
00:24:17.586 --> 00:24:19.327
I think, personally,
I love miniatures

428
00:24:19.370 --> 00:24:22.722
because of the
representational aspect, and
how much fun that is.

429
00:24:22.765 --> 00:24:25.202
The idea of like that's my
character, it looks like
my character, it's...

430
00:24:25.246 --> 00:24:28.031
It's what I imagine
my character might look like.

431
00:24:28.075 --> 00:24:29.729
My first experience
with miniatures and...

432
00:24:29.772 --> 00:24:32.993
And maybe the first several
dozen experiences
with miniatures

433
00:24:33.036 --> 00:24:36.518
was all the same experiences.
I did and that experience
was that I couldn't have any.

434
00:24:36.562 --> 00:24:39.390
I couldn't afford miniatures
when I was a kid.
They were expensive.

435
00:24:39.434 --> 00:24:43.307
Some of my friends used
bottle caps, rocks, pebbles,
pennies, paperclips,

436
00:24:43.351 --> 00:24:46.136
whatever we had within,
you know, arm's reach.

437
00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:48.095
Sometimes we'd fold a piece
of paper into a triangle

438
00:24:48.138 --> 00:24:51.838
and tape a penny to the bottom,
draw a character on it,
that was a thing.

439
00:24:53.579 --> 00:24:58.497
We launched on the crowdfunding
site Kickstarter.
And we didn't get funding.

440
00:24:59.585 --> 00:25:02.239
And uh, you know, we...
We plan to relaunch this year,

441
00:25:02.283 --> 00:25:06.026
but it was a, um,
it was a difficult process, um,

442
00:25:06.069 --> 00:25:07.680
but it was also a tremendous
learning experience.

443
00:25:07.723 --> 00:25:11.684
We learned a ton, um, watching
our game not fund, right?

444
00:25:11.727 --> 00:25:15.426
Watching our game
not be embraced, not be beloved,

445
00:25:15.470 --> 00:25:17.428
not be a Cash Cab,
none of being...

446
00:25:17.472 --> 00:25:18.821
It being none of those things.

447
00:25:18.865 --> 00:25:21.737
It seemed like a doomed
space shuttle launch.

448
00:25:21.781 --> 00:25:24.827
Like you just,
you knew that you were doomed
from the beginning,

449
00:25:24.871 --> 00:25:26.829
but you just, you...
You couldn't,

450
00:25:26.873 --> 00:25:28.831
you're not gonna just let go
of the steering wheel
at that point, right?

451
00:25:28.875 --> 00:25:30.267
You're gonna,
you have to keep trying.

452
00:25:30.311 --> 00:25:33.314
For me, I think,
if I don't have some option

453
00:25:33.357 --> 00:25:36.796
to include miniatures
with Thug Life, uh,

454
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:39.407
as part, as an option,
as least as an option
to play that experience,

455
00:25:39.450 --> 00:25:42.410
I think it's, um, falling short
of the original vision
of the game.

456
00:25:42.453 --> 00:25:44.891
And as someone
who loves miniatures so much,

457
00:25:44.934 --> 00:25:46.762
I would never want to play
Thug Life

458
00:25:46.806 --> 00:25:48.198
without the miniatures,
personally.

459
00:25:51.071 --> 00:25:52.812
So when you're shopping
for a game,

460
00:25:52.855 --> 00:25:56.467
the artwork and the name
are more important
than anything else, right?

461
00:25:56.511 --> 00:25:58.078
You're competing for...
For shelf space.

462
00:25:58.121 --> 00:26:01.516
The artwork in games
is unreasonably important to me.

463
00:26:01.560 --> 00:26:05.128
Uh, there are really good games
that I won't play
because the artwork's not good.

464
00:26:05.172 --> 00:26:06.608
You're gonna make
a knee-jerk decision,

465
00:26:06.652 --> 00:26:08.305
as to whether you want
to purchase a game.

466
00:26:08.349 --> 00:26:10.612
Many times,
it's gonna be based on the art.

467
00:26:10.656 --> 00:26:13.354
You actually have to restrain
yourself otherwise.

468
00:26:13.397 --> 00:26:15.399
A... At least
that's how I feel about it.

469
00:26:15.443 --> 00:26:19.142
You see a beautiful game
and you want to buy it
just because it looks beautiful.

470
00:26:19.186 --> 00:26:20.666
[ship horn honks]

471
00:26:20.709 --> 00:26:23.451
[light music playing]

472
00:26:34.549 --> 00:26:38.335
[Nashra] So it started off,
actually, as a class project

473
00:26:38.379 --> 00:26:40.816
where initially,
my professor was like,

474
00:26:40.860 --> 00:26:43.253
"Make something
that's important to you."

475
00:26:43.297 --> 00:26:48.694
And the one thing
that has bothered me forever
has been arranged marriages.

476
00:26:48.737 --> 00:26:53.829
I have been, or tried,
like my parents have tried
to make me a victim of it.

477
00:26:53.873 --> 00:26:59.226
A lot of my friends
have been in similar situations
and they haven't had a way out.

478
00:26:59.269 --> 00:27:03.839
So, that was the topic.
I knew immediately that the
topic was arranged marriage.

479
00:27:03.883 --> 00:27:07.930
My name is Nashra Balagamwala.
I am the designer of Arranged!

480
00:27:07.974 --> 00:27:11.194
which is a board game
about running away
from arranged marriages.

481
00:27:11.238 --> 00:27:13.675
It's a game that forces
participants

482
00:27:13.719 --> 00:27:17.418
to confront the struggles
that South Asian girls face

483
00:27:17.461 --> 00:27:19.376
when being forced
into an arranged marriage.

484
00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:21.770
[light music playing]

485
00:27:21.814 --> 00:27:28.298
The game play, essentially,
involves three teenage girls
and one Rishta Aunty

486
00:27:28.342 --> 00:27:33.434
who, essentially, translated
means the "proposal lady"
or the "matchmaker."

487
00:27:33.477 --> 00:27:37.699
And this matchmaker is chasing
down the girls on the board

488
00:27:37.743 --> 00:27:41.311
trying to get them married off
to any and every one
she can find.

489
00:27:41.355 --> 00:27:45.794
The aunty draws cards
which will have an example

490
00:27:45.838 --> 00:27:47.883
of something that happens
in South Asian culture

491
00:27:47.927 --> 00:27:51.234
that would be considered bizarre
elsewhere.

492
00:27:51.278 --> 00:27:56.631
Um, such as, "You see a girl
who uses Fair and Lovely,"
which is a whitening cream,

493
00:27:56.675 --> 00:27:59.678
and, therefore,
she seems more attractive

494
00:27:59.721 --> 00:28:02.332
because she's fairer
and so you move closer to her.

495
00:28:02.376 --> 00:28:05.335
However, the girls
are trying to do things

496
00:28:05.379 --> 00:28:08.904
such as coming up with creative
ways to avoid this aunty,

497
00:28:08.948 --> 00:28:11.298
so that they don't
get married off,

498
00:28:11.341 --> 00:28:13.648
like they don't end up
in a loveless marriage.

499
00:28:13.692 --> 00:28:17.696
So, they are doing things such
as, when they draw the cards,
it will say something like,

500
00:28:17.739 --> 00:28:21.351
"You photoshopped yourself
with alcohol to, you know,

501
00:28:21.395 --> 00:28:23.310
get the aunty to move
away from you."

502
00:28:25.138 --> 00:28:29.359
I have run away
from so many of these aunties.

503
00:28:29.403 --> 00:28:32.275
I have done the most ridiculous
things to avoid them,

504
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.017
and so, I'm gonna create
a game about avoiding them.

505
00:28:35.061 --> 00:28:37.541
[light music playing]

506
00:28:37.585 --> 00:28:42.851
I was around twelve,
in seventh grade,

507
00:28:42.895 --> 00:28:47.508
where I learned about RISD,
and I researched it

508
00:28:47.551 --> 00:28:49.597
and I was like,
"Oh, what is the Rhode Island
School of Design?"

509
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.556
And I was like,
"This is where I want to go."

510
00:28:52.600 --> 00:28:57.648
I want to get out of Pakistan
because I don't believe
in these societal norms,

511
00:28:57.692 --> 00:29:00.956
and so I started spending
pretty much every day

512
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:03.654
working on an art portfolio
so that I'd be able to leave.

513
00:29:03.698 --> 00:29:05.744
It was extremely overwhelming.

514
00:29:05.787 --> 00:29:09.269
There were several points where
I was ready to quit and leave.

515
00:29:09.312 --> 00:29:13.534
It was... Like I spent days
crying freshman year,

516
00:29:13.577 --> 00:29:15.710
and I was like, "This is...
This is too much for me
to handle,"

517
00:29:15.754 --> 00:29:19.235
but slowly, I had a really good
support system of friends

518
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:21.498
who helped me get through it,
get adjusted,

519
00:29:21.542 --> 00:29:25.502
and now, I'm so thankful
that I didn't go back.

520
00:29:25.546 --> 00:29:29.071
I'm on a work visa.
I've been in New York
working for the past year.

521
00:29:29.115 --> 00:29:31.857
However, it expires
in a couple of days,

522
00:29:31.900 --> 00:29:33.815
at which point,
I'm returning back to Pakistan.

523
00:29:36.035 --> 00:29:41.301
The money that I make off of it
will initially be used
for just to fly back to America

524
00:29:41.344 --> 00:29:43.825
and to be able to apply
for another visa

525
00:29:43.869 --> 00:29:47.829
so I can come back and continue
my life of being a designer.

526
00:29:47.873 --> 00:29:50.527
The day I land, I'm going
to my cousin's wedding.

527
00:29:51.572 --> 00:29:55.576
After that,
I'm gonna be dealing
with proposals, as always,

528
00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:59.232
or maybe due to all this press
that I've recently gotten

529
00:29:59.275 --> 00:30:03.018
and really speaking out about
avoiding an arranged marriage,

530
00:30:03.062 --> 00:30:06.326
maybe I'm not gonna get
any proposals,
and I'm hoping that's the case.

531
00:30:06.369 --> 00:30:09.242
Maybe this time,
this was my way of avoiding it.

532
00:30:09.285 --> 00:30:13.986
[light music playing]

533
00:30:21.950 --> 00:30:26.389
Rob Daviau, the designer
of, um, Pandemic Legacy
and a bunch of other games.

534
00:30:26.433 --> 00:30:31.525
He says that the best moment
that a gamer has
is opening a box.

535
00:30:31.568 --> 00:30:34.876
You open the box, you're like
"Wow, this is so great,
look at all this great stuff."

536
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:37.096
[Scott] And the worst moment
is reading the rules.

537
00:30:37.139 --> 00:30:41.056
There's an incredible discipline
and there's an incredible
talent and skill and craft

538
00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:42.797
that goes into writing
rule books.

539
00:30:42.841 --> 00:30:47.889
And I am passable at it,
at best.

540
00:30:47.933 --> 00:30:52.415
Always a struggle to be very,
very, very clear in the language

541
00:30:52.459 --> 00:30:55.636
without being legalistically
confusing.

542
00:30:55.679 --> 00:31:00.510
You're not an epic
science writer
or an epic fiction writer even

543
00:31:00.554 --> 00:31:03.731
and it'd rather be boring
and use the same expression
three times,

544
00:31:03.774 --> 00:31:06.299
rather than trying to be varied
and then confuse the people.

545
00:31:06.342 --> 00:31:09.693
When you're a game designer,
what you really need to focus on

546
00:31:09.737 --> 00:31:11.695
and what you really need
to be confident in

547
00:31:11.739 --> 00:31:15.351
is that you can hand
those instructions to anybody
who speaks the language,

548
00:31:15.395 --> 00:31:20.617
and they should be able to play
your game
without any difficulty.

549
00:31:20.661 --> 00:31:22.750
There are some really good
rulebooks out there, too.

550
00:31:22.793 --> 00:31:25.448
Um, I... I would get
things like, um,

551
00:31:25.492 --> 00:31:28.974
the little pamphlet that comes
with Exploding Kittens.

552
00:31:29.017 --> 00:31:30.932
It's a really great
set of rules.

553
00:31:30.976 --> 00:31:34.370
Our initial version
of the instructions
for Exploding Kittens,

554
00:31:34.414 --> 00:31:36.546
uh, fit on one card.

555
00:31:36.590 --> 00:31:39.071
[Elan] It was so elegant.
It was so beautiful.

556
00:31:39.114 --> 00:31:43.684
It was, literally,
like six sentences
that explained the whole game,

557
00:31:43.727 --> 00:31:45.860
and there was sort of
a recursive logic to it

558
00:31:45.904 --> 00:31:47.818
that would point you
from one place to another.

559
00:31:47.862 --> 00:31:49.603
I was so proud
of these instructions.

560
00:31:49.646 --> 00:31:51.866
And we sent it out
into the world,
we put it through play-testing,

561
00:31:51.910 --> 00:31:54.738
and what we found is nobody can
figure out how to play the game.

562
00:31:56.131 --> 00:32:00.179
Instructions require a massive
level of redundancy.

563
00:32:00.222 --> 00:32:02.398
And they require
so much hand holding.

564
00:32:02.442 --> 00:32:05.967
I would say we went through,
literally, no joke,

565
00:32:06.011 --> 00:32:08.230
hundreds of versions
of Exploding Kittens.

566
00:32:08.274 --> 00:32:09.840
And um,
every time we'd test it out

567
00:32:09.884 --> 00:32:11.712
and find another three things
that we messed up.

568
00:32:11.755 --> 00:32:13.844
When I was doing Trekking,
my thinking was like,

569
00:32:13.888 --> 00:32:16.978
"I'm gonna make this game
to the point where if grandma
understands it quickly,

570
00:32:17.022 --> 00:32:19.938
then I've... I've hit it."

571
00:32:19.981 --> 00:32:22.070
You know, a lot of people go,
"Well, will kids be able
to understand it?"

572
00:32:22.114 --> 00:32:23.550
Don't worry about them.

573
00:32:23.593 --> 00:32:25.682
A five-year-old will understand
a game faster and easier

574
00:32:25.726 --> 00:32:27.641
than an eighty-year-old
will understand it.

575
00:32:27.684 --> 00:32:31.166
[upbeat music playing]

576
00:32:33.952 --> 00:32:37.085
[Charlie]
There's definitely benefits
as a small publisher.

577
00:32:37.129 --> 00:32:40.959
If you're publishing
your own game,
you can make more that way.

578
00:32:41.002 --> 00:32:44.571
It's possible.
There's way more risk,
but there can be more reward.

579
00:32:44.614 --> 00:32:47.617
On one hand, it's amazing
the world we live in,

580
00:32:47.661 --> 00:32:48.879
'cause, you know,
you want something,

581
00:32:48.923 --> 00:32:50.446
you order it on Amazon,
it's at your house.

582
00:32:50.490 --> 00:32:53.101
But then you just expect that
that's just how the world works,

583
00:32:53.145 --> 00:32:55.495
and you don't realize
that when you're Walmart

584
00:32:55.538 --> 00:32:59.542
and someone in Beijing wants
to order something from you,
that's no problem.

585
00:32:59.586 --> 00:33:03.764
They have steep discounts and...
But then when you're just like
one dude trying to make a game

586
00:33:03.807 --> 00:33:07.028
and you go, "Yeah,
I can ship my game to you,
it's gonna cost sixty dollars,"

587
00:33:07.072 --> 00:33:09.030
then people want to bite
your head off 'cause they think
you're robbing them.

588
00:33:09.074 --> 00:33:12.512
You're like, "I'm not!
I promise. I just...
It's that expensive to do this."

589
00:33:12.555 --> 00:33:14.993
[Charlie] We store
all our inventory in a U-Haul

590
00:33:15.036 --> 00:33:17.038
that's not too far down
the street from us.

591
00:33:17.082 --> 00:33:19.040
Uh, boxes stacked
all the way to the ceiling.

592
00:33:19.084 --> 00:33:22.043
Each case holds about
five games, um,

593
00:33:22.087 --> 00:33:24.089
and, yeah, we just keep
the bulk of them there.

594
00:33:24.132 --> 00:33:27.179
Maybe keep about twenty
at the house that we can ship
out whenever we need to.

595
00:33:27.222 --> 00:33:28.963
I've worked for other
publishers before.

596
00:33:29.007 --> 00:33:33.533
I've seen what they do,
and you know, I...

597
00:33:33.576 --> 00:33:36.623
I guess there is a little
part of me that goes
"Ah, I can do that, you know?"

598
00:33:36.666 --> 00:33:39.713
Now that I've done it,
I'm like "Oh, my God."
That's so much work, you know.

599
00:33:39.756 --> 00:33:41.976
It's so much harder.
There's so much more
to it than I thought.

600
00:33:42.020 --> 00:33:47.808
Any business requires a team
and we have developed a team
of, with different talents.

601
00:33:47.851 --> 00:33:49.897
Again, like I said,
Charlie's the creative.

602
00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:52.073
Uh, Terry's pretty much
the operations,

603
00:33:52.117 --> 00:33:55.859
and then you have to have
somebody that helps sell it.
So that's been my role.

604
00:33:55.903 --> 00:33:58.166
[Terry] I know when I order
something online

605
00:33:58.210 --> 00:34:00.212
or order something
from a website,

606
00:34:00.255 --> 00:34:02.388
I wanna know exactly
when it's coming.

607
00:34:02.431 --> 00:34:04.999
So, when we get an order
on a daily basis,

608
00:34:05.043 --> 00:34:06.957
I've got it packaged
and ready to go,

609
00:34:07.001 --> 00:34:08.568
and it's shipped out
the same day.

610
00:34:08.611 --> 00:34:09.743
It's very involving.

611
00:34:09.786 --> 00:34:11.571
She's the best at shipping.

612
00:34:11.614 --> 00:34:16.924
[mellow music playing]

613
00:34:18.708 --> 00:34:20.232
[Charlie] My parents are older.
They're retired.

614
00:34:20.275 --> 00:34:24.192
They... They've worked,
they're ready to, you know,

615
00:34:24.236 --> 00:34:25.498
be retired
and enjoy their legacy.

616
00:34:25.541 --> 00:34:27.891
And then sort of just,
wow, at the same time,

617
00:34:27.935 --> 00:34:31.025
their legacy
is sort of manifested
into a physical product.

618
00:34:31.069 --> 00:34:31.895
This is great.

619
00:34:33.941 --> 00:34:36.248
I mean if I'm gonna be
really honest, uh,

620
00:34:36.291 --> 00:34:38.163
running the business
with my parents,

621
00:34:38.206 --> 00:34:41.470
running it with them
has been hugely turbulent.

622
00:34:41.514 --> 00:34:43.037
Hugely turbulent.

623
00:34:43.081 --> 00:34:44.734
I can't say it's brought us
closer together.

624
00:34:44.778 --> 00:34:48.521
It's changed how we interact
with each other.

625
00:34:48.564 --> 00:34:51.567
It's not the same relationship
as it was before the game.

626
00:34:51.611 --> 00:34:55.136
I think if you ask them,
they would say a lot
has changed because of it.

627
00:34:55.180 --> 00:34:58.879
[mellow music playing]

628
00:34:58.922 --> 00:35:02.143
[Susan] I think there's
a difference between an artist
and a designer.

629
00:35:02.187 --> 00:35:07.670
I think an artist is somebody
who's creating something
that they personally love

630
00:35:07.714 --> 00:35:10.543
and they don't give a darn what
anybody else thinks about it,

631
00:35:10.586 --> 00:35:13.981
and they don't have to
'cause they're creating it
for their own...

632
00:35:14.024 --> 00:35:16.723
Their own enjoyment.
And that can be,
it can be a composer,

633
00:35:16.766 --> 00:35:19.029
a game designer, a writer,
whatever it is.

634
00:35:19.073 --> 00:35:20.596
When you're an artist,
you're doing it,

635
00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:23.295
and you might, you might like
other people to like it,

636
00:35:23.338 --> 00:35:25.427
but all that matters is that
you like it.

637
00:35:25.471 --> 00:35:28.735
[mellow music playing]

638
00:35:31.999 --> 00:35:36.308
[Jason] A vast majority, if not
all, of our negative reactions
have been on social media.

639
00:35:36.351 --> 00:35:40.747
[mellow music playing]

640
00:35:41.617 --> 00:35:43.445
I think a lot of people
see the game,

641
00:35:43.489 --> 00:35:49.886
they judge the game based on,
uh, its cultural,
its cultural look.

642
00:35:49.930 --> 00:35:54.195
And it's kind of subversive,
you know, name and tone.

643
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:56.328
In Thug Life, there's characters
called homies.

644
00:35:56.371 --> 00:35:58.417
They're unique signature
individuals.

645
00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:00.636
Many of which are based
on actual people.

646
00:36:00.680 --> 00:36:02.421
Uncles, and friends,
and neighbors, right?

647
00:36:03.596 --> 00:36:05.641
[Jason] The one comment
we would always have was like,

648
00:36:05.685 --> 00:36:08.731
"Hey, why can't it be Vikings,
or, you know, ninjas,
or that sort of thing?'

649
00:36:08.775 --> 00:36:11.821
And sure, but my attitude was
always if I'm going to go ahead

650
00:36:11.865 --> 00:36:16.652
and do that game,
games I've already done before,
why even bother?

651
00:36:16.696 --> 00:36:21.266
Rather than just re-skin it,
I would just do a completely
different game.

652
00:36:21.309 --> 00:36:25.966
Why is it not okay
for this game to exist,
when other games just like it,

653
00:36:26.009 --> 00:36:28.186
actually games
much more irresponsible,

654
00:36:28.229 --> 00:36:32.538
that actually feature
graphic sex, graphic violence,
graphic depictions of drug use,

655
00:36:32.581 --> 00:36:37.630
and you know, crime,
why this pushback
to this theme right now?

656
00:36:39.675 --> 00:36:43.288
In any kind of business venture,
if you're going to compromise
your effort

657
00:36:43.331 --> 00:36:46.334
based on a really small amount
of public opinion,

658
00:36:46.378 --> 00:36:50.991
you're not going to really
do anything
that's honest or worthwhile.

659
00:36:51.034 --> 00:36:54.647
The number one reason
we didn't get our funding
was our price point was too high

660
00:36:54.690 --> 00:36:58.607
for the community that would
have wanted to buy our game.

661
00:36:58.651 --> 00:37:01.480
Most of the game friends
that are in my immediate
circle are,

662
00:37:01.523 --> 00:37:04.091
you know, white gamers,
I love these guys,
I love playing games with them.

663
00:37:04.134 --> 00:37:07.834
And I don't mean to have like
this extensive conversation
about color in gaming,

664
00:37:07.877 --> 00:37:11.577
but with Thug Life,
it's got black kids in it,

665
00:37:11.620 --> 00:37:14.623
it's got, you know,
brown kids in it,
it's got yellow kids in it.

666
00:37:14.667 --> 00:37:17.452
You know, Black, Asian,
you know, Hispanic kids,

667
00:37:17.496 --> 00:37:18.932
they're too poor
to buy Thug Life.

668
00:37:19.976 --> 00:37:22.370
When I was a kid,
I loved games of all sorts,

669
00:37:22.414 --> 00:37:24.546
I mean, I think I started
playing Dungeons and Dragons
when I was eight.

670
00:37:24.590 --> 00:37:26.983
I'd have to drive five,
six cities away

671
00:37:27.027 --> 00:37:29.682
before I could even find
a game store.

672
00:37:29.725 --> 00:37:32.685
And the bummer of those drives
were often the fact

673
00:37:32.728 --> 00:37:35.644
that when we'd arrive,
we couldn't afford anything
at the store.

674
00:37:35.688 --> 00:37:39.735
So, here I am as an adult,
who's really into the miniatures
hobby, and I love that,

675
00:37:39.779 --> 00:37:44.871
creating games that I would've
priced myself out as...
As a kid.

676
00:37:44.914 --> 00:37:46.829
Even if Thug Life
cost thirty dollars.

677
00:37:46.873 --> 00:37:49.049
Even if it cost twenty dollars
when I was a kid,

678
00:37:49.092 --> 00:37:51.921
there's no way I would have
been able to afford this game.

679
00:37:51.965 --> 00:37:55.490
[dreamy music playing]

680
00:37:55.534 --> 00:37:59.102
Something I wasn't really
aware of as a child

681
00:37:59.146 --> 00:38:02.323
was that how actually white
the board game industry was.

682
00:38:02.367 --> 00:38:04.717
It wasn't actually
'til many years later

683
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.416
when I put Thug Life
out into space
that I realized it wasn't just,

684
00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:10.984
you know, white people
playing board games.

685
00:38:11.027 --> 00:38:17.469
It was American
and European white culture
that were defining the games.

686
00:38:17.512 --> 00:38:20.341
As amazing as the gaming
renaissance has been,

687
00:38:20.385 --> 00:38:24.171
I have never been more aware
of not being a white person

688
00:38:24.214 --> 00:38:27.827
than this journey that kind
of Thug Life took me on.

689
00:38:27.870 --> 00:38:30.569
[Luke]
Yeah, yeah, we have a diversity
problem in tabletop games.

690
00:38:30.612 --> 00:38:36.575
A puzzling diversity problem
because there's no real
like deep-seeded cultural bias

691
00:38:36.618 --> 00:38:40.187
or like weird made-up
cultural tradition

692
00:38:40.230 --> 00:38:42.015
around masculinity
and game design.

693
00:38:42.058 --> 00:38:43.756
People might be more interested
in them

694
00:38:43.799 --> 00:38:45.453
if they felt that they were
reflected in them.

695
00:38:45.497 --> 00:38:48.891
I don't think the characters
are that diverse

696
00:38:48.935 --> 00:38:51.241
in a lot of strategy
board games.

697
00:38:51.285 --> 00:38:56.159
Like my daughters,
I have many daughters
and I got a kids' game one time,

698
00:38:56.203 --> 00:38:59.162
and there was four
boy characters and one girl.

699
00:38:59.206 --> 00:39:01.469
And my girls said, "Why is there
only one girl character?"

700
00:39:01.513 --> 00:39:03.645
And I said, "I don't know,
a lot of my games
are like that."

701
00:39:03.689 --> 00:39:07.345
Say, take Clue, for example,
all the characters are white.

702
00:39:07.388 --> 00:39:10.130
In fact,
there's a Mrs. White in there.

703
00:39:10.173 --> 00:39:11.958
When you open up
a box of miniatures

704
00:39:12.001 --> 00:39:14.482
and all you have
is white characters,

705
00:39:14.526 --> 00:39:17.311
you're basically telling
a lot of people

706
00:39:17.355 --> 00:39:19.531
that you're not part
of this experience.

707
00:39:19.574 --> 00:39:22.055
[Jason] Seeing Star Trek
as a kid, I thought it was neat
that there was like, you know,

708
00:39:22.098 --> 00:39:26.233
a black chick on the spaceship,
there was an Asian guy
on the spaceship.

709
00:39:26.276 --> 00:39:28.148
You know,
but always in my brain,

710
00:39:28.191 --> 00:39:29.758
and the running joke
with me and my friends

711
00:39:29.802 --> 00:39:32.152
was like I guess Mexicans
never made it to space.

712
00:39:32.195 --> 00:39:34.981
'cause as inclusive as that is
and as cool as it was,

713
00:39:35.024 --> 00:39:38.550
Star Trek's one of my favorite
shows of all time,
you can't ever do it all, right?

714
00:39:38.593 --> 00:39:41.553
There's someone saying, "Hey,
how come there's no Portuguese
guy on that ship?" Right?

715
00:39:41.596 --> 00:39:44.817
We're better at it
than we even were one year ago

716
00:39:44.860 --> 00:39:50.431
and I think, next year,
we'll be better to a greater
degree than we are this year.

717
00:39:50.475 --> 00:39:53.826
And that's coming
from people being...

718
00:39:53.869 --> 00:39:57.046
People in publishing,
like myself and my peers,

719
00:39:57.090 --> 00:40:01.747
and people who care about
growing the market
beyond our segment right now.

720
00:40:01.790 --> 00:40:05.272
Another thing that we are doing,
and what I hope to do,

721
00:40:05.315 --> 00:40:07.013
is that we're just hiring,
naturally,

722
00:40:07.056 --> 00:40:10.190
hiring more people
of greater demographics

723
00:40:10.233 --> 00:40:15.151
so that it is becoming
a little bit more natural

724
00:40:15.195 --> 00:40:16.936
and not part
of our implicit bias.

725
00:40:16.979 --> 00:40:21.462
If people aren't actively
looking for new designers

726
00:40:21.506 --> 00:40:23.682
who maybe represent
different points of view,

727
00:40:23.725 --> 00:40:26.598
different classes,
different ethnicities,

728
00:40:26.641 --> 00:40:29.296
different languages,
different regions of the world

729
00:40:29.339 --> 00:40:30.993
that are not known
for making games,

730
00:40:31.037 --> 00:40:35.128
we have to be curious
about finding new voices.

731
00:40:40.612 --> 00:40:42.788
[Eric] So, I get asked a lot
about Kickstarter.

732
00:40:42.831 --> 00:40:47.009
It closed the divide
between creator and fan,

733
00:40:47.053 --> 00:40:49.447
in a way that no other medium
has before, right?

734
00:40:49.490 --> 00:40:55.496
As, in my opinion, as profound
as the democratization
of like music tools, right?

735
00:40:55.540 --> 00:40:58.412
For people to be able
to make like homemade,

736
00:40:58.456 --> 00:41:00.675
home studio recordings
and put it on YouTube.

737
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:05.419
It's almost that much
of a seismic shift.

738
00:41:05.463 --> 00:41:09.597
[Elan] Crowdfunding enables
the actual market to decide.

739
00:41:09.641 --> 00:41:12.948
It allows anybody
to try their hand at a game,

740
00:41:12.992 --> 00:41:15.342
and the good ones succeed
and the bad ones fail,

741
00:41:15.385 --> 00:41:17.344
but we get so many more
out the door.

742
00:41:17.387 --> 00:41:19.389
It's not,
"Here's a thousand, pick two."

743
00:41:19.433 --> 00:41:21.304
It's, "Here's a thousand,
pick a thousand."

744
00:41:21.348 --> 00:41:26.832
Kickstarter operates really
well in terms of outsiders
or independents

745
00:41:26.875 --> 00:41:28.790
or people who are taking a risk.

746
00:41:28.834 --> 00:41:32.707
You know people who are outside
of the kinda normal chain
of distribution

747
00:41:32.751 --> 00:41:37.407
or manufacturing or publishing
that can come here,
to Kickstarter, and say,

748
00:41:37.451 --> 00:41:39.105
"You know what,
I think I have a good idea

749
00:41:39.148 --> 00:41:41.673
and, you know, I think I know
who would like it."

750
00:41:41.716 --> 00:41:46.286
You now have this outlet of
Kickstarter that you can go out
and you can enter your game,

751
00:41:47.200 --> 00:41:49.811
which is fine,
you will sell, you know,

752
00:41:49.855 --> 00:41:55.382
a good game that's well marketed
will probably sell,
you know, 800 to 1200 copies,

753
00:41:55.425 --> 00:41:59.168
and almost to a person that's
gonna be the end of that game.

754
00:41:59.212 --> 00:42:02.781
You have a calling card
that you can use and say,
"Hey, I did this game,"

755
00:42:02.824 --> 00:42:05.653
but all you've done
is put another game

756
00:42:05.697 --> 00:42:08.221
that will now be an orphan
into the marketplace

757
00:42:08.264 --> 00:42:11.920
and there's no plan
for you to continue
to market that game

758
00:42:11.964 --> 00:42:13.705
for a couple of more years.

759
00:42:13.748 --> 00:42:16.664
No plan for you to reprint
that game on your own

760
00:42:16.708 --> 00:42:19.928
with the profits
that you've made off
the first round of the game.

761
00:42:19.972 --> 00:42:22.540
There's a ton more games
that exist, of course,

762
00:42:22.583 --> 00:42:25.455
because the vetting process
of publishers,

763
00:42:25.499 --> 00:42:30.069
the gatekeeping
of the traditional publisher
model can be circumvented now,

764
00:42:30.112 --> 00:42:35.030
and has been proven
financially viable
for many creators.

765
00:42:35.074 --> 00:42:37.816
Of course, the absence
of that vetting process

766
00:42:37.859 --> 00:42:42.690
means that it's a little bit
more risky for the player,
for the consumer, right?

767
00:42:42.734 --> 00:42:44.997
I don't know if this game's
been play-tested.

768
00:42:45.040 --> 00:42:48.783
I don't know if it's been put
through its development paces.
I'm taking a chance.

769
00:42:48.827 --> 00:42:53.483
[dreamy music playing]

770
00:43:00.534 --> 00:43:04.233
[Charlie] Bink Inc. is...
I don't know, I mean,
I'm selling the games.

771
00:43:04.277 --> 00:43:07.715
I'd like to continue it.
I have no idea
where I'm at right now.

772
00:43:09.282 --> 00:43:12.807
There was definitely a moment
where I just realized
I needed to get a job.

773
00:43:12.851 --> 00:43:17.203
The selling games thing
wasn't paying all the bills,

774
00:43:17.246 --> 00:43:19.814
so I needed to get back
in the working world,

775
00:43:19.858 --> 00:43:23.122
make some money, so I can
continue to sell the games.

776
00:43:24.776 --> 00:43:28.388
There was a time when a very
prestigious game company

777
00:43:28.431 --> 00:43:30.999
was flat out
going to buy Trekking.
It wasn't a question.

778
00:43:31.043 --> 00:43:32.871
All I had to do was say yes.

779
00:43:32.914 --> 00:43:35.525
And there was a big family
disagreement about it.

780
00:43:35.569 --> 00:43:37.484
I was the only one
that wanted to do it.

781
00:43:37.527 --> 00:43:39.268
My parents were very much
against it.

782
00:43:39.312 --> 00:43:42.532
He did have an offer, but the
game is still pretty young.

783
00:43:42.576 --> 00:43:48.800
And we felt that it still had
a lot more potential,
and why sell it now?

784
00:43:48.843 --> 00:43:50.802
[John]
Let's see what happens with it.

785
00:43:50.845 --> 00:43:53.805
[Charlie] I need this
to be a source of income.

786
00:43:53.848 --> 00:43:56.851
I need it to grow like faster
is always better.

787
00:43:56.895 --> 00:43:59.027
Um, I think their perspective
is, you know,

788
00:43:59.071 --> 00:44:03.684
we need to maintain the legacy
and we need to not sell
the farm.

789
00:44:03.728 --> 00:44:06.382
[John] Well, it would be like
selling off your child.

790
00:44:06.426 --> 00:44:08.646
I mean, we gave birth
to this thing as a family,

791
00:44:08.689 --> 00:44:14.347
and then just to hand the game
to somebody else
who really is more...

792
00:44:14.390 --> 00:44:17.219
Would be more into it from
a monetary standpoint than...

793
00:44:17.263 --> 00:44:19.221
I mean, we're emotionally
attached to it.

794
00:44:19.265 --> 00:44:21.702
[Charlie]
I definitely tell people now...

795
00:44:23.617 --> 00:44:27.621
Really think about it before
you start a family business
'cause it's not something...

796
00:44:27.665 --> 00:44:29.318
It's not like a normal business.

797
00:44:34.236 --> 00:44:35.847
[Jerry] I like the discovery
of new games.

798
00:44:35.890 --> 00:44:40.155
I like when we find
an opportunity,
whether it is a person

799
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:42.288
who has given us a game
that is very rough

800
00:44:42.331 --> 00:44:45.900
and we can try to work
with that vision
to see it to the end,

801
00:44:45.944 --> 00:44:49.556
and then,
to add in the graphic design

802
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.559
and the artwork
and how it all fits in a box.

803
00:44:52.602 --> 00:44:57.259
That whole process,
I absolutely am
just fanatic about.

804
00:44:57.303 --> 00:44:58.521
I love that part
of the business.

805
00:44:58.565 --> 00:45:02.221
Working with publishers
might seem frustrating

806
00:45:02.264 --> 00:45:03.875
because especially
when you're starting,

807
00:45:03.918 --> 00:45:07.966
you're young, you're impulsive,
you're excitable,

808
00:45:08.009 --> 00:45:10.533
you feel like
you know everything.

809
00:45:10.577 --> 00:45:12.318
You've learned all the lessons
you need to know.

810
00:45:12.361 --> 00:45:16.061
Um... and you've got
this brilliant thing
that you gotta put out

811
00:45:16.104 --> 00:45:19.542
and publisher
is kinda standing in the way
of your unbridled genius.

812
00:45:19.586 --> 00:45:24.373
[Jerry] We really ask that, uh,
that when we see new games that
come in that are pitched to us,

813
00:45:24.417 --> 00:45:26.724
are we dealing with people
who are being flexible or not?

814
00:45:26.767 --> 00:45:30.945
I think every new designer
should get their ass kicked
by a publisher.

815
00:45:30.989 --> 00:45:33.556
I'm put in the unenviable
position

816
00:45:33.600 --> 00:45:37.430
of basically people coming
to me and saying,
"This is my grandchild."

817
00:45:37.473 --> 00:45:39.737
And I say, "Well, let me
tell you about your grandchild."

818
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:41.782
That their brilliant design
is crap...

819
00:45:41.826 --> 00:45:43.697
Eyebrows are a little funny...

820
00:45:43.741 --> 00:45:47.135
That their ideas are not nearly
as brilliant as they think
they are...

821
00:45:47.179 --> 00:45:49.921
Yeah, I'm not sure
what's going on
with the way the nose is bent...

822
00:45:49.964 --> 00:45:52.445
In two seconds,
somebody with experience

823
00:45:52.488 --> 00:45:55.230
can show you the problem
you've been working on for years

824
00:45:55.274 --> 00:45:59.757
is actually a problem
rather than the solution
you've sort of glommed onto.

825
00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:04.065
And I'm not sure that arms
gonna give, you know,
it's kinda frustrating,

826
00:46:04.109 --> 00:46:08.417
but ultimately, my job
is to be as critical as I can,

827
00:46:08.461 --> 00:46:12.857
to make sure
that out of the probably four
to five hundred designs

828
00:46:12.900 --> 00:46:14.684
that we see
over the course of a year,

829
00:46:14.728 --> 00:46:17.731
the four that we intend
to move forward on and publish,

830
00:46:17.775 --> 00:46:20.560
which, of course, includes all
of our professional designers

831
00:46:20.603 --> 00:46:22.475
and all of the people
that we've worked with before,

832
00:46:22.518 --> 00:46:26.653
you know, we find absolutely
the best fit for game

833
00:46:26.696 --> 00:46:30.396
and for audience and for
marketing purposes that we can.

834
00:46:30.439 --> 00:46:33.312
Publishers don't have
the weaknesses of an individual

835
00:46:33.355 --> 00:46:35.314
trying to bring their game
to the marketplace.

836
00:46:35.357 --> 00:46:39.144
[Jerry] They're not gonna be
an expert in finance,
legal, graphic design,

837
00:46:39.187 --> 00:46:44.540
editing, artwork,
sales management,
warehousing, logistics.

838
00:46:44.584 --> 00:46:48.588
I would never take
the publishing experience
away from a new designer

839
00:46:48.631 --> 00:46:52.418
because it feels like a crucible
you have to go to... Go through.

840
00:46:52.461 --> 00:46:55.900
I think that not every designer
needs a publisher,

841
00:46:55.943 --> 00:46:59.686
but they won't find that out
until you've gone
through the test.

842
00:46:59.729 --> 00:47:05.387
[light music playing]

843
00:47:14.962 --> 00:47:17.878
[man 1] Catan is a board game
with global appeal.

844
00:47:17.922 --> 00:47:22.970
Introduced in 1995, it sold nearly 30 million copies worldwide

845
00:47:23.014 --> 00:47:26.060
and has been translated
in over 40 languages.

846
00:47:26.104 --> 00:47:27.496
What is the game
you're nuts about?

847
00:47:27.540 --> 00:47:28.715
Settlers of Catan!

848
00:47:28.758 --> 00:47:30.238
-Settlers of Catan!
-That's a good one.

849
00:47:30.282 --> 00:47:31.500
[Matt]
I think my first experience

850
00:47:31.544 --> 00:47:33.894
with Settlers of Catan
was in 1995 at Gen Con.

851
00:47:33.938 --> 00:47:37.376
My first time playing Catan,
um, was glorious.

852
00:47:37.419 --> 00:47:38.899
It kind of opened
my eyes to like,

853
00:47:38.943 --> 00:47:40.205
"Oh, this is what
I've been looking for."

854
00:47:40.248 --> 00:47:43.817
I played a lot of games
prior that, really,

855
00:47:43.861 --> 00:47:45.645
I just kind of found
disappointing.

856
00:47:45.688 --> 00:47:47.647
It didn't really scratch
the itch in the same way
that Catan did.

857
00:47:47.690 --> 00:47:50.955
It was a phenomenon.
It was a sensation
when it came over.

858
00:47:50.998 --> 00:47:54.436
[Steve] So, Catan is this iconic
brand, right?

859
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.395
It's a foundational game,
and by that,

860
00:47:56.438 --> 00:47:58.049
I mean, it's something
that has really.

861
00:47:58.092 --> 00:48:01.835
It's at the core root of the
tabletop game experience.

862
00:48:01.879 --> 00:48:04.229
It's always been
a very successful game,

863
00:48:04.272 --> 00:48:08.059
but over especially like maybe
the last five to eight years,

864
00:48:08.102 --> 00:48:09.930
you've seen this kind
of new momentum.

865
00:48:09.974 --> 00:48:13.847
[light music playing]

866
00:48:26.686 --> 00:48:29.167
[Guido] My dad was always
inspired by stories.

867
00:48:29.210 --> 00:48:31.604
That was always the foundation
for game design,

868
00:48:31.647 --> 00:48:35.260
and so at a very early age,
like he always read stories
to us.

869
00:48:35.303 --> 00:48:39.568
And like he would, you know,
sit on a train ride

870
00:48:39.612 --> 00:48:42.093
and he would sort of
look out of the window

871
00:48:42.136 --> 00:48:45.618
and he's probably thinking
about, you know, some story.

872
00:48:45.661 --> 00:48:48.926
And with Catan particularly,
it was Vikings.

873
00:48:58.022 --> 00:49:00.415
He just immersed himself
in that kind of fantasy

874
00:49:00.459 --> 00:49:04.680
and that kind of story,
and that gave birth to the game.

875
00:49:04.724 --> 00:49:06.552
That was the foundation
of the Catan game.

876
00:49:34.362 --> 00:49:36.103
[Benjamin]
Klaus always put a magazine,

877
00:49:36.147 --> 00:49:39.411
like a comic, next to my place,
when we tested games.

878
00:49:39.454 --> 00:49:43.110
And he realized
that I didn't like the game,
when I was grabbing

879
00:49:43.154 --> 00:49:46.287
for the magazine and started
reading during play.

880
00:49:46.331 --> 00:49:48.376
And that never happened
with Catan.

881
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:55.731
My dad, before he started
doing game development,
he ran his father's business.

882
00:49:55.775 --> 00:49:57.603
He was a dental technician.

883
00:49:57.646 --> 00:50:02.173
They had a dental lab,
and it was a tough job
running that business.

884
00:50:02.216 --> 00:50:04.001
[Guido] It wasn't his passion.

885
00:50:04.044 --> 00:50:05.872
He liked that work,
but like it wasn't his passion,

886
00:50:05.915 --> 00:50:10.746
and so like as a way to take
refuge and to do something,

887
00:50:10.790 --> 00:50:13.053
like have a creative outlet,
he started game design.

888
00:50:13.097 --> 00:50:17.362
And so, that hobby grew
more seriously,

889
00:50:17.405 --> 00:50:22.671
and then at some point, like,
he started to win some awards,

890
00:50:22.715 --> 00:50:24.978
and that encouraged him
to keep on going

891
00:50:25.022 --> 00:50:27.720
and, eventually, turn
into a full-time profession.

892
00:50:35.075 --> 00:50:40.341
He didn't expect it to catch on
to that extent because it was...

893
00:50:40.385 --> 00:50:43.997
We figured
it would be successful,
but not like to that scale.

894
00:51:16.116 --> 00:51:21.252
It's been really amazing
like my dad like is in Germany,

895
00:51:21.295 --> 00:51:22.775
and he's doing a lot
of the development.

896
00:51:22.818 --> 00:51:26.648
And like I... early on, I worked
with our publisher here,

897
00:51:26.692 --> 00:51:31.958
and then my brother Benjamin
is... He can do both,

898
00:51:32.001 --> 00:51:33.786
he does the development
and also the business part.

899
00:51:33.829 --> 00:51:36.658
So, the three of us
really complement each other,

900
00:51:36.702 --> 00:51:39.139
and like we have a really great
working relationship.

901
00:51:39.183 --> 00:51:43.622
And it's family and business.
It's all really one,
and so we're very...

902
00:51:43.665 --> 00:51:46.581
I feel very blessed
to have that setup.

903
00:51:56.243 --> 00:52:00.856
The more exciting part
of the job is now developing
games together with Klaus.

904
00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:02.206
For two or three years,

905
00:52:02.249 --> 00:52:04.208
we're like developing
the new products together.

906
00:52:09.561 --> 00:52:11.867
I would never have approached
both of them

907
00:52:11.911 --> 00:52:17.090
if I didn't think
that we would get along,
so that was the basis.

908
00:52:17.134 --> 00:52:18.918
And now working together
with them

909
00:52:18.961 --> 00:52:20.485
even made our relationship
stronger.

910
00:52:20.528 --> 00:52:22.704
To have something, like,
every morning when you get up

911
00:52:22.748 --> 00:52:24.184
and then you know
you're working on something

912
00:52:24.228 --> 00:52:26.273
that you're passionate about
with your family...

913
00:52:26.317 --> 00:52:31.191
It's really, um,
we feel extremely grateful

914
00:52:31.235 --> 00:52:33.889
and lucky
to be in that situation.

915
00:52:33.933 --> 00:52:39.417
[light music playing]

916
00:52:42.724 --> 00:52:46.424
[Scott] So, Haunted Mansion
is a very special place
in our household.

917
00:52:46.467 --> 00:52:50.210
It's my favorite and my wife's
favorite attraction
at Disneyland Park.

918
00:52:50.254 --> 00:52:54.388
It was the place
that I proposed to my wife.

919
00:52:54.432 --> 00:52:57.435
I wanted to do it
in a place that I knew
wouldn't get torn down

920
00:52:57.478 --> 00:53:01.526
after a whole bunch of years,
so I said, oh, Haunted Mansion
is a place we both like.

921
00:53:01.569 --> 00:53:03.049
We both like going
to Disneyland.

922
00:53:03.092 --> 00:53:04.964
We've both been many,
many, many times,

923
00:53:05.007 --> 00:53:08.968
and so, I decided
I was going to propose to her
in the Haunted Mansion.

924
00:53:09.011 --> 00:53:12.232
[Scott] I'm sure my wife feels
I have too many games.

925
00:53:12.276 --> 00:53:14.930
She likes that I like
to play them.

926
00:53:14.974 --> 00:53:19.196
She's always very good
about letting me go off
and play games with friends.

927
00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:22.938
Now my son is a little more
game to play board games.

928
00:53:22.982 --> 00:53:25.245
Now he's more of a video gamer
than a board gamer,

929
00:53:25.289 --> 00:53:29.597
but he will go with me
sometimes to some
of the local conventions,

930
00:53:29.641 --> 00:53:34.689
Strategicon, and, um,
we'll play games like Munchkin
or X-Wing or things like that.

931
00:53:34.733 --> 00:53:39.999
I have tried for many years
to get my daughter
to play board games with me.

932
00:53:40.042 --> 00:53:43.263
A few years ago, she told me
she doesn't play board games.
She doesn't like them.

933
00:53:43.307 --> 00:53:48.007
Although she recently had a
birthday, and what did they do?
They played card games.

934
00:53:48.050 --> 00:53:50.183
They played Uno; they played
Cards Against Humanity;

935
00:53:50.227 --> 00:53:52.098
they played one
of my prototypes,

936
00:53:52.141 --> 00:53:55.101
so maybe she's coming around,
I don't know.

937
00:53:55.144 --> 00:53:58.670
We play a lot of games, I guess.
A lot of pretty good variety,
I guess.

938
00:53:58.713 --> 00:54:01.325
I shouldn't complain.
But they won't play Star Wars
games with me.

939
00:54:01.368 --> 00:54:02.848
[Evelyn] No... they're boring!

940
00:54:02.891 --> 00:54:03.762
[sighs]

941
00:54:03.805 --> 00:54:05.198
[Evelyn] They take six hours.

942
00:54:05.242 --> 00:54:07.113
There's nothing wrong
with a good six-hour game.

943
00:54:07.156 --> 00:54:10.203
So, when Evelyn
was like four years old,

944
00:54:10.247 --> 00:54:13.293
she came up to me
with a drawing, and I said,

945
00:54:13.337 --> 00:54:14.816
"Oh, it's a lovely drawing,
Evelyn."

946
00:54:14.860 --> 00:54:18.298
And she said, "It's not a
drawing, Dad, it's a game."

947
00:54:18.342 --> 00:54:20.126
And I said, "Alright, well,
what kind of game is this."

948
00:54:20.169 --> 00:54:22.650
And she said, "Well,
it was a picture of a castle

949
00:54:22.694 --> 00:54:24.870
and there was a princess
in like one of the windows,

950
00:54:24.913 --> 00:54:27.176
and she says,
"Well you're a prince

951
00:54:27.220 --> 00:54:29.918
and you climb up the castle and
then you go save the princess
and you give her a kiss."

952
00:54:29.962 --> 00:54:32.486
And I'm like, "It's not
a bad idea for a game."

953
00:54:32.530 --> 00:54:36.098
So, this is the art of the game
that she's working on.

954
00:54:36.142 --> 00:54:41.756
So, she's doing these different
illustrations, and, you know,
based on my design,

955
00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:43.889
but she's got a really
great style, I think.

956
00:54:43.932 --> 00:54:46.935
And it's also, I just think
it's fun that she's...

957
00:54:46.979 --> 00:54:48.807
My daughter's contributing
the art.

958
00:54:54.421 --> 00:54:55.292
Mm-Hm.

959
00:54:56.162 --> 00:54:58.469
$750.

960
00:54:59.383 --> 00:55:01.733
Well, actually,
he has the family discount

961
00:55:01.776 --> 00:55:08.740
because I'm charging him $10
for each colored picture,
but my actual rate is $30, so...

962
00:55:09.654 --> 00:55:11.482
-Getting a heck of a deal.
-Mm-Hm.

963
00:55:11.525 --> 00:55:14.789
Thank you. I appreciate it.

964
00:55:14.833 --> 00:55:17.488
I assume your rate will go up
with the next project.

965
00:55:19.141 --> 00:55:20.229
It could.

966
00:55:20.273 --> 00:55:22.928
[upbeat music playing]

967
00:55:24.843 --> 00:55:28.368
[Nashra] So my parents have
played the game
and they really like it.

968
00:55:28.412 --> 00:55:32.851
They've had a good time,
and they think it's a funny
game about things

969
00:55:32.894 --> 00:55:34.243
that have actually happened.

970
00:55:34.287 --> 00:55:38.030
They can relate to some
of those cards themselves.

971
00:55:39.031 --> 00:55:43.122
I knew what arranged
marriages were when I was four
or five years old

972
00:55:43.165 --> 00:55:47.822
because every single person
around me
had an arranged marriage.

973
00:55:47.866 --> 00:55:52.044
However, watching any movies,
which were Western movies,
I was like,

974
00:55:52.087 --> 00:55:55.308
"Wait, but those guys met
each other, they went on a date.

975
00:55:55.352 --> 00:55:57.092
Mom, Dad, you didn't do that.

976
00:55:57.136 --> 00:55:59.660
You didn't even meet each other
'til the day
of your engagement."

977
00:55:59.704 --> 00:56:02.097
I was a very stubborn child.

978
00:56:02.141 --> 00:56:07.451
I am still very stubborn,
and also a hopeless romantic.

979
00:56:07.494 --> 00:56:09.366
And I was like,
"Nope, not happening.

980
00:56:09.409 --> 00:56:12.630
I'm going to do whatever
it takes
to fight my way out of it."

981
00:56:12.673 --> 00:56:15.372
[light music playing]

982
00:56:15.415 --> 00:56:20.115
So, initially,
I just wanted it to be a way
to get my frustration out

983
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:21.813
and to write it all down.

984
00:56:21.856 --> 00:56:24.163
You know, write out
all the points that anger me.

985
00:56:24.206 --> 00:56:29.298
And then as I started
to make it,
when I was play-testing it,

986
00:56:29.342 --> 00:56:34.956
some of my Western friends
started to play it,
and found the examples so funny.

987
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:37.785
Someone was on the floor
in fits of laughter,

988
00:56:37.829 --> 00:56:40.005
like,
"Oh, my God, this is unreal.

989
00:56:40.048 --> 00:56:45.445
And I'm like, "No, that's
actually based off of something
that, you know, happens."

990
00:56:45.489 --> 00:56:50.102
And he couldn't believe that,
which is what got him

991
00:56:50.145 --> 00:56:53.671
to start thinking
and talking to me more
about what the society is like.

992
00:56:53.714 --> 00:56:56.369
And then I realized
how powerful it could be

993
00:56:56.413 --> 00:56:59.285
that it could really serve
as a platform

994
00:56:59.328 --> 00:57:01.330
for people to be able
to discuss this issue.

995
00:57:02.244 --> 00:57:05.204
I am making it
for all the women in Pakistan

996
00:57:05.247 --> 00:57:07.075
that have been forced
into an arranged marriage.

997
00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:09.513
For the women that believe
that they don't have a choice

998
00:57:09.556 --> 00:57:16.215
because this was very difficult
for me to publish it
and get it out to the world.

999
00:57:16.258 --> 00:57:20.611
It's been very controversial.
I have received messages
from people like,

1000
00:57:20.654 --> 00:57:23.135
"Oh, enjoy your fame
while it lasts

1001
00:57:23.178 --> 00:57:27.269
because when you come home,
you're gonna be dealing
with the consequences of it,"

1002
00:57:27.313 --> 00:57:29.663
and it's gonna be difficult.

1003
00:57:29.707 --> 00:57:32.840
I've spoken out
about a lot of things

1004
00:57:32.884 --> 00:57:35.495
that people
don't want to discuss,

1005
00:57:35.539 --> 00:57:40.021
but I am hoping
that with this game,

1006
00:57:40.065 --> 00:57:45.157
someone else
will be inspired to be like,
"No, I can break free, too."

1007
00:57:45.200 --> 00:57:48.682
[light music playing]

1008
00:57:48.726 --> 00:57:50.641
And even if it affects
one person,

1009
00:57:50.684 --> 00:57:52.730
that's good,
that's still one life.

1010
00:57:52.773 --> 00:57:55.384
That's why I'm always trying
to create work

1011
00:57:55.428 --> 00:57:58.039
that can change the way people
think about things

1012
00:57:58.083 --> 00:58:00.085
or talk about issues
that are present.

1013
00:58:00.128 --> 00:58:04.568
Because as corny as it sounds,
I do want to make the world
a better place.

1014
00:58:04.611 --> 00:58:08.920
And I think that art
is very powerful

1015
00:58:08.963 --> 00:58:11.444
and, even though,
everyone says, you know,

1016
00:58:11.488 --> 00:58:13.446
"I want to use my work
to make a difference,"

1017
00:58:13.490 --> 00:58:15.492
does everyone really do that?

1018
00:58:15.535 --> 00:58:18.799
And if you're presented
with the opportunity to do it,
you should jump on it.

1019
00:58:18.843 --> 00:58:25.066
[light music playing]

1020
00:58:28.243 --> 00:58:33.814
Costs of the materials
for your game will affect
or should affect

1021
00:58:33.858 --> 00:58:35.468
choices you make
in designing a game.

1022
00:58:35.512 --> 00:58:39.733
There's not a lot of money
to be made in tabletop gaming.

1023
00:58:39.777 --> 00:58:41.648
Um, you know,
it's that old saying,

1024
00:58:41.692 --> 00:58:44.042
how do you take a big fortune
and make it a small one?

1025
00:58:44.085 --> 00:58:45.522
You know,
go into tabletop gaming.

1026
00:58:45.565 --> 00:58:48.263
Between the sizes that you
choose for your components

1027
00:58:48.307 --> 00:58:50.178
or the weight
of your overall game

1028
00:58:50.222 --> 00:58:52.529
you're going to make
a lot of choices, um,

1029
00:58:52.572 --> 00:58:57.142
about the game
and even the game design
to keep your costs down,

1030
00:58:57.185 --> 00:59:00.145
so that you can make something
that actually can generate
some money.

1031
00:59:00.188 --> 00:59:05.498
[calm music playing]

1032
00:59:15.203 --> 00:59:19.512
The biggest challenges that you
have with board game production

1033
00:59:19.556 --> 00:59:24.909
is if you source from twenty
different suppliers' components
for one game.

1034
00:59:24.952 --> 00:59:28.739
It starts with printed sheets,
goes over the instruction sheet,

1035
00:59:28.782 --> 00:59:31.872
wooden pieces,
plastic components,
whatever's in the game.

1036
00:59:31.916 --> 00:59:35.223
You need to have everything
in place at the right time
and the right quantity.

1037
00:59:35.267 --> 00:59:39.010
For this game,
we definitely have more
than ten suppliers

1038
00:59:39.053 --> 00:59:41.012
for the different components.

1039
00:59:41.055 --> 00:59:45.930
Start with the box,
you have a printed sheet
and you have the board itself.

1040
00:59:45.973 --> 00:59:47.584
So, it's already two suppliers.

1041
00:59:47.627 --> 00:59:49.542
You have the board
of the playing cards,

1042
00:59:49.586 --> 00:59:51.326
you have the printable
playing cards,

1043
00:59:51.370 --> 00:59:54.068
cello-wrapping
of the playing cards,
which is three suppliers.

1044
00:59:54.112 --> 00:59:59.117
The plastic components
in this game
are coming from one supplier.

1045
00:59:59.160 --> 01:00:03.034
The wooden pieces are coming
from a different supplier.

1046
01:00:03.077 --> 01:00:05.602
The vacuum tray,
the instruction sheet,

1047
01:00:05.645 --> 01:00:08.430
the game board
that we produce in-house.

1048
01:00:08.474 --> 01:00:10.911
The board itself,
different supplier

1049
01:00:10.955 --> 01:00:13.827
than the other board
that we use for the boxes.

1050
01:00:13.871 --> 01:00:18.527
We have the tape
that we put on the board,
and we have the printed sheets.

1051
01:00:18.571 --> 01:00:23.532
For a game like that,
if we go through
every component in detail,

1052
01:00:23.576 --> 01:00:27.493
we, for sure, have at least
fifteen different suppliers.

1053
01:00:27.536 --> 01:00:30.627
[light music playing]

1054
01:00:37.503 --> 01:00:42.508
[light music playing]

1055
01:00:42.551 --> 01:00:45.903
[Nashra] I'm back in Pakistan
and I'm dealing
with the production of the game.

1056
01:00:45.946 --> 01:00:48.906
I wanted to get the game
made in Pakistan

1057
01:00:48.949 --> 01:00:51.386
because I want to support
the local economy,

1058
01:00:51.430 --> 01:00:54.999
however, it's made it
a lot more difficult.

1059
01:00:55.042 --> 01:00:58.959
Customs clearance has also
become a lot more difficult

1060
01:00:59.003 --> 01:01:01.701
because, now,
they're looking for drugs

1061
01:01:01.745 --> 01:01:04.573
inside my game for some reason.

1062
01:01:04.617 --> 01:01:07.968
So, the rule book
which is made out
of double layers of paper

1063
01:01:08.012 --> 01:01:09.840
was ripped apart.

1064
01:01:09.883 --> 01:01:13.757
And, you know,
they were poking holes in it
just to find the drugs.

1065
01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:17.804
It's so sad to see
all my efforts ripped apart.

1066
01:01:17.848 --> 01:01:20.938
When I got back to Pakistan,
I went to my cousin's wedding,

1067
01:01:20.981 --> 01:01:26.378
and these aunties that normally
loved me, hugged me,
wanted me to marry their sons

1068
01:01:26.421 --> 01:01:30.861
were now rolling
their eyes at me,
kind of sitting in a corner

1069
01:01:30.904 --> 01:01:33.515
and whispering
every time I walked by.

1070
01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:36.040
And it was a very hostile
environment,

1071
01:01:36.083 --> 01:01:37.650
and they would come up
and be like,

1072
01:01:37.694 --> 01:01:42.655
"Oh, Beta,
we heard about your game."

1073
01:01:42.699 --> 01:01:45.049
And it was just the most
disapproving look,

1074
01:01:45.092 --> 01:01:48.269
but I just smiled politely
and walked away

1075
01:01:48.313 --> 01:01:50.968
because I did not have
the energy to deal with them.

1076
01:01:51.011 --> 01:01:55.581
And, quite frankly, I'm relieved
that they no longer want me
to marry their sons.

1077
01:01:55.624 --> 01:02:01.892
I have been working
on my O-1 Visa full time,
and I really hope I get it.

1078
01:02:01.935 --> 01:02:04.111
I'm just...
My fingers are crossed.

1079
01:02:04.155 --> 01:02:07.724
Everyone's hoping
and praying for me,
and if, hopefully, I do get it,

1080
01:02:07.767 --> 01:02:09.334
I do want to move back
to New York.

1081
01:02:09.377 --> 01:02:15.035
[mellow music playing]

1082
01:02:18.169 --> 01:02:21.607
[Jason] In the second
Kickstarter launch,
we made the game cheaper.

1083
01:02:21.650 --> 01:02:25.089
We've learned a lot more about
what gamers do and don't want.

1084
01:02:25.132 --> 01:02:27.918
We created a different sort of
approach to the components.

1085
01:02:27.961 --> 01:02:31.051
We're using these really
well-produced standees.

1086
01:02:31.095 --> 01:02:33.575
The fact that the people's hands
that we really wanted
to put the game in

1087
01:02:33.619 --> 01:02:35.012
couldn't afford it and...

1088
01:02:35.055 --> 01:02:38.493
And that was a very sobering
sort of conversation

1089
01:02:38.537 --> 01:02:42.106
because it stood contrary
to a lot of the things

1090
01:02:42.149 --> 01:02:45.544
that we initially
sought out to do in the game.

1091
01:02:45.587 --> 01:02:50.157
Yes, I would love to have
created a miniatures experience
for a lot of these kids.

1092
01:02:50.201 --> 01:02:51.985
At the end of the day,

1093
01:02:52.029 --> 01:02:55.119
I think the gateway
that the game is creating now
is way better.

1094
01:02:55.162 --> 01:02:57.730
There's almost no version
of this where we don't fund.

1095
01:03:04.302 --> 01:03:06.608
I'm not a marketing person
or a business person,

1096
01:03:06.652 --> 01:03:09.394
so I just thought,
you know, this game
is about national parks,

1097
01:03:09.437 --> 01:03:10.961
it needs to be made in America.

1098
01:03:11.004 --> 01:03:13.746
[Charlie] Making anything
in America is very expensive,

1099
01:03:13.790 --> 01:03:17.358
and so it made
that first print run,
which did sell out,

1100
01:03:17.402 --> 01:03:21.101
it made it hard to make
any money off of.

1101
01:03:21.145 --> 01:03:24.844
I had to make a decision,
once I was sort of running out
of the first print run,

1102
01:03:24.888 --> 01:03:26.846
am I going to continue
making this game?

1103
01:03:26.890 --> 01:03:31.068
And if I do, do I actually
want to, you know,
buy some groceries with it?

1104
01:03:31.111 --> 01:03:33.200
I have to go
to a Chinese manufacturer.

1105
01:03:33.244 --> 01:03:35.986
Since I did my second print run
with China,

1106
01:03:36.029 --> 01:03:40.947
I am making about a little more
than three times
as much per copy.

1107
01:03:40.991 --> 01:03:43.036
So, it's significant.

1108
01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:46.213
Being able to get
the unit price per game low,

1109
01:03:46.257 --> 01:03:50.348
obviously,
it helps me selling the game

1110
01:03:50.391 --> 01:03:52.872
or it helps, you know,
the publisher selling the game,

1111
01:03:52.916 --> 01:03:54.787
but it actually helps
the consumer also.

1112
01:03:54.831 --> 01:03:59.139
You know a game
that would maybe cost $60
suddenly costs $40,

1113
01:03:59.183 --> 01:04:03.491
and those tiers
make a huge difference
for people's buying habits,

1114
01:04:03.535 --> 01:04:06.581
which, of course, then also,
get them to play the game
which lets them enjoy the game.

1115
01:04:06.625 --> 01:04:07.887
It gets it out there more.

1116
01:04:07.931 --> 01:04:10.020
I was very worried
the first time around

1117
01:04:10.063 --> 01:04:11.456
that if the game
wasn't made in America

1118
01:04:11.499 --> 01:04:14.198
that customers
would not like that.

1119
01:04:14.241 --> 01:04:17.288
So, um... But I've been
selling it a lot ever since,

1120
01:04:17.331 --> 01:04:20.987
and actually,
only one time ever,
this one lady came up to me.

1121
01:04:21.031 --> 01:04:22.554
Now, this was before
the second printing.

1122
01:04:22.597 --> 01:04:24.904
This was when I was still
selling the American edition,

1123
01:04:24.948 --> 01:04:26.688
and she came up,
she looked at the game,

1124
01:04:26.732 --> 01:04:29.561
and she sort of eyed me
suspiciously and said,
"Where was this made?"

1125
01:04:29.604 --> 01:04:30.954
I said,
"It was made in America."

1126
01:04:31.911 --> 01:04:34.827
She goes, "Oh, okay."
Then she just walked away.

1127
01:04:34.871 --> 01:04:35.959
She didn't buy the game.

1128
01:04:36.002 --> 01:04:39.397
[clatters]

1129
01:04:43.575 --> 01:04:46.534
There's a convention season
and then there's a con circuit,

1130
01:04:46.578 --> 01:04:50.451
but conventions, especially
pop culture conventions

1131
01:04:50.495 --> 01:04:51.800
where you see
a hundred thousand people

1132
01:04:51.844 --> 01:04:53.411
and it looks, "Oh,
look how exciting that looks,"

1133
01:04:53.454 --> 01:04:55.848
that is a real expensive way
to make money.

1134
01:04:55.892 --> 01:05:01.898
[upbeat music playing]

1135
01:05:04.988 --> 01:05:08.295
[Elan] We take the game
to conferences all the time,

1136
01:05:08.339 --> 01:05:11.951
and the problem with conferences
is it's really hard
to stand out.

1137
01:05:11.995 --> 01:05:13.953
In previous years
what we've done is

1138
01:05:13.997 --> 01:05:15.737
we've printed out
giant decks of cards,

1139
01:05:15.781 --> 01:05:18.915
like six-foot tall versions
of cards
that take four people to lift,

1140
01:05:18.958 --> 01:05:20.699
uh, so that we can play
with people

1141
01:05:20.742 --> 01:05:23.354
and stand out in the noise
of a conference.

1142
01:05:23.397 --> 01:05:25.834
[man 2] [INAUDIBLE] This is it.

1143
01:05:25.878 --> 01:05:27.967
This could be
the end of the game.

1144
01:05:28.011 --> 01:05:30.709
[all scream]

1145
01:05:32.580 --> 01:05:34.495
This year for conference season,

1146
01:05:34.539 --> 01:05:38.282
uh, we are building
a giant Exploding Kittens
vending machine

1147
01:05:38.325 --> 01:05:40.806
that we call
the Exploding Kittens dispenser.

1148
01:05:40.849 --> 01:05:43.374
[Elan]
It's huge and the trick to this

1149
01:05:43.417 --> 01:05:45.550
is it's absolutely
human powered.

1150
01:05:45.593 --> 01:05:50.598
[upbeat music playing]

1151
01:05:50.642 --> 01:05:55.429
We had to register
as a grocery store,

1152
01:05:55.473 --> 01:05:58.215
in order to get
all this wholesale produce.

1153
01:05:58.258 --> 01:06:02.480
[upbeat music playing]

1154
01:06:05.091 --> 01:06:08.790
Watermelons and potatoes
and onions and pineapples

1155
01:06:08.834 --> 01:06:12.838
and all kinds of insane things
to spit out the machine,

1156
01:06:12.881 --> 01:06:15.275
when you push
that random button.

1157
01:06:15.319 --> 01:06:18.583
[upbeat music playing]

1158
01:06:48.656 --> 01:06:51.050
[chuckles]
Yeah, we actually tried.

1159
01:06:51.094 --> 01:06:53.835
-[man 3] Really?
-The problem is,
we're not allowed

1160
01:06:53.879 --> 01:06:56.186
to bring live animals
on to the conference floor.

1161
01:06:56.229 --> 01:06:59.015
So, we thought
it would be hilarious
to give out real kittens,

1162
01:06:59.058 --> 01:07:02.409
and take them back
'cause we don't want
to stick people

1163
01:07:02.453 --> 01:07:04.063
with essentially,
adopting a cat,

1164
01:07:04.107 --> 01:07:07.632
uh, but they won't even let them
into the conference.

1165
01:07:07.675 --> 01:07:11.114
[overlapping chatter]

1166
01:07:11.157 --> 01:07:14.639
[Scott]
Uh, when I was eight years old,
I read Dragon Magazine,

1167
01:07:14.682 --> 01:07:16.510
and in the back
of Dragon Magazine

1168
01:07:16.554 --> 01:07:19.513
there was an ad
for a conference called Gen Con.

1169
01:07:19.557 --> 01:07:22.560
And for years,
I dreamt about going to Gen Con.

1170
01:07:22.603 --> 01:07:25.084
I never went.
It took me a long time
to get there.

1171
01:07:25.128 --> 01:07:28.218
[upbeat music playing]

1172
01:07:44.799 --> 01:07:47.889
[Charlie] What I love most
about Gen Con is,
honestly, the spectacle.

1173
01:07:47.933 --> 01:07:50.979
It's a great convention floor.

1174
01:07:51.023 --> 01:07:54.331
You go to enough Comic Cons
and you go,
"This is just a flea market."

1175
01:07:54.374 --> 01:07:58.030
But what I love about game cons
is people are there
to actually do things.

1176
01:07:58.074 --> 01:07:59.640
[Charlie] They're there
to actually play games.

1177
01:07:59.684 --> 01:08:02.904
And I've met friends
that I stay in touch with

1178
01:08:02.948 --> 01:08:04.776
just because I met them
at a table at a game con,

1179
01:08:04.819 --> 01:08:07.213
and that's never happened
to me at a Comic Con.

1180
01:08:07.257 --> 01:08:09.389
What am I looking forward
to most at Gen Con?

1181
01:08:09.433 --> 01:08:10.869
Well, seeing the fans.

1182
01:08:10.912 --> 01:08:13.176
Meeting a lot of friends
that I know from past years,

1183
01:08:13.219 --> 01:08:14.916
meeting a lot of people
for the first time

1184
01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:16.483
who are really excited
to play our games.

1185
01:08:16.527 --> 01:08:18.181
-This is our first year.
-Yeah.

1186
01:08:18.224 --> 01:08:19.878
-So, I'm kinda excited.
-Yeah.

1187
01:08:19.921 --> 01:08:21.836
Games just always bring
the family together.

1188
01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:25.623
[woman 2] They make us laugh
and that's just one thing

1189
01:08:25.666 --> 01:08:28.452
that we've instilled in our
family's lives is game night.

1190
01:08:28.495 --> 01:08:31.063
It's actually better.
Like it's more than I thought.

1191
01:08:31.107 --> 01:08:34.240
-It's a lot of fun.
-Yeah, it's amazing.

1192
01:08:34.284 --> 01:08:37.765
The thing about Gen Con
is really
that makes it so interesting

1193
01:08:37.809 --> 01:08:39.593
is the level of excitement.

1194
01:08:39.637 --> 01:08:42.683
It's the biggest game
convention in the world
for tabletop gaming.

1195
01:08:42.727 --> 01:08:44.642
There's more people who come
here than anywhere else.

1196
01:08:44.685 --> 01:08:46.296
This year, they sold out,

1197
01:08:46.339 --> 01:08:49.037
and it's just every
game publisher
of any note comes here.

1198
01:08:49.081 --> 01:08:50.387
[Tom] There's designers,
there's people,

1199
01:08:50.430 --> 01:08:53.172
all over the place
just so much going on.

1200
01:08:53.216 --> 01:08:56.306
So that's at hype level.
The biggest games of the year
are often released here.

1201
01:08:56.349 --> 01:08:59.874
It is the event of the summer.
It's Christmas in August.

1202
01:08:59.918 --> 01:09:03.095
Once I started getting
into tabletop gaming
and I did some research

1203
01:09:03.139 --> 01:09:08.056
about where was the best place
to meet publishers,
I always heard Gen Con.

1204
01:09:08.100 --> 01:09:10.755
If you have a game
you want to sell,
go to Gen Con.

1205
01:09:10.798 --> 01:09:16.239
[quirky music playing]

1206
01:09:25.509 --> 01:09:27.032
[Scott]
And I sent you the rules...

1207
01:09:27.075 --> 01:09:28.642
[Zev] Uh, yep, I read the rules
and everything, too, yeah.

1208
01:09:28.686 --> 01:09:30.949
[Scott]
So it's a very simple card game,
but horror-themed.

1209
01:09:30.992 --> 01:09:33.473
I'm a big fan of like
The Haunted Mansion and Disney,

1210
01:09:33.517 --> 01:09:35.562
so I wanted to create something
that was scary

1211
01:09:35.606 --> 01:09:38.217
but not blood and gore
and anything like that.

1212
01:09:38.261 --> 01:09:40.045
I like the puzzle aspect.

1213
01:09:40.088 --> 01:09:44.832
I like the fact
that you play cooperatively,
competitively, and solo.

1214
01:09:44.876 --> 01:09:48.401
Yeah, this would be something
I'd love to take back
and test with my group.

1215
01:09:48.445 --> 01:09:49.837
Well then, thank you very much.

1216
01:09:49.881 --> 01:09:51.143
-I appreciate you
taking the time.
-My pleasure.

1217
01:09:51.187 --> 01:09:55.234
[quirky music playing]

1218
01:09:55.278 --> 01:09:58.237
So this was,
this game was kind of derived

1219
01:09:58.281 --> 01:10:00.326
from my love for The Haunted
Mansion at Disneyland.

1220
01:10:00.370 --> 01:10:03.895
The ghosts are going
to float in,
so as we play around,

1221
01:10:03.938 --> 01:10:05.723
we're going to get a hand
of three cards.

1222
01:10:05.766 --> 01:10:09.335
[quirky music playing]

1223
01:10:11.468 --> 01:10:14.035
Actually, I have one other
really simple card game.

1224
01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:16.386
All the art is done
by me and my daughter.

1225
01:10:16.429 --> 01:10:20.564
I think it went really well.
The fact that they were willing
to spend that much time with me

1226
01:10:20.607 --> 01:10:22.043
is a really good sign.

1227
01:10:22.087 --> 01:10:24.394
The fact that they wanted to see
everything that I had

1228
01:10:24.437 --> 01:10:26.047
was amazing experience

1229
01:10:26.091 --> 01:10:29.312
because I brought a lot
of diverse games with me
to the show,

1230
01:10:29.355 --> 01:10:33.403
and I went in there expecting
to only pitch maybe one
or two games.

1231
01:10:33.446 --> 01:10:36.623
And the fact that they wanted
to see everything,
was a really nice surprise.

1232
01:10:36.667 --> 01:10:39.887
So a lot of his stuff
is relatively original,
which is good.

1233
01:10:39.931 --> 01:10:42.325
Um, I like the fact
that he has a little story

1234
01:10:42.368 --> 01:10:44.196
behind the games
that he's pitching.

1235
01:10:44.240 --> 01:10:45.806
You know, I don't have
any signed contract.

1236
01:10:45.850 --> 01:10:49.984
I'm not going away with any
sort of handshake or guarantee,

1237
01:10:50.028 --> 01:10:53.161
but right now, I'm feeling
really positive about this show.

1238
01:10:53.205 --> 01:10:55.468
[upbeat music playing]

1239
01:10:55.512 --> 01:10:59.385
[Jerry] Gen Con is the largest
convention in North America,

1240
01:10:59.429 --> 01:11:03.259
but Essen Spiel is the largest
convention for Europe.

1241
01:11:03.302 --> 01:11:07.132
[Jerry] We've seen a lot
of games come over from Europe
because I think, you know,

1242
01:11:07.175 --> 01:11:09.874
the gaming community in Europe
was much stronger than the U.S.

1243
01:11:09.917 --> 01:11:15.749
Um, and I think Europe really
showed people in North America
how innovative a game could be,

1244
01:11:15.793 --> 01:11:19.710
and not just the standard
fare that's been out,
you know, year over year.

1245
01:11:19.753 --> 01:11:22.626
[traffic noises]

1246
01:11:22.669 --> 01:11:26.325
[Reiner] The Spiel in Essen,
this convention is very special

1247
01:11:26.369 --> 01:11:30.547
because it brings
a lot of people,
around 150,000, together.

1248
01:11:30.590 --> 01:11:34.115
It's amazing to see people
from all across Europe,

1249
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:37.075
all across the world coming
together to play tabletop games.

1250
01:11:37.118 --> 01:11:40.470
[upbeat music playing]

1251
01:11:46.693 --> 01:11:50.828
[Reiner] And these
are not just the gamers
who play games every day,

1252
01:11:50.871 --> 01:11:56.703
these are families,
these are school classes,
and it brings joy together,

1253
01:11:56.747 --> 01:12:00.707
in a big, big forum
of seeing so many people playing

1254
01:12:00.751 --> 01:12:02.709
that there are so many other
people who are interested.

1255
01:12:02.753 --> 01:12:05.886
[upbeat music playing]

1256
01:12:09.629 --> 01:12:16.680
Uh, it's huge and it's full
of board games, and just go with
a random stranger, play a game,

1257
01:12:16.723 --> 01:12:18.812
and have big fun with it.

1258
01:12:34.088 --> 01:12:36.787
[Rindert] The great thing
about Essen is that

1259
01:12:36.830 --> 01:12:39.703
it's a convention for everyone,
I would say.

1260
01:12:39.746 --> 01:12:45.796
Families... Grandparents,
gamers, geeks, casual gamers,

1261
01:12:45.839 --> 01:12:48.581
uh, beginners,
everyone gathers here.

1262
01:12:48.625 --> 01:12:52.019
And there is a game
for everyone.

1263
01:12:52.063 --> 01:12:55.153
We are really looking forward,
each year, to come here to Essen

1264
01:12:55.196 --> 01:12:58.635
because as you can see around,
it's full, it's packed.

1265
01:12:58.678 --> 01:13:01.464
Board games is a big thing,
since ages here in Germany,

1266
01:13:01.507 --> 01:13:04.162
and the whole fair
reflects this.

1267
01:13:04.205 --> 01:13:08.384
If you're arriving at Spiel
and you haven't been here before
then, for me,

1268
01:13:08.427 --> 01:13:11.691
it's some of the biggest
conference halls
I've been in ever.

1269
01:13:11.735 --> 01:13:15.129
And you walk in
and you almost can't see
the end of the hall.

1270
01:13:15.173 --> 01:13:17.131
[Kerstin] It's really key
for us to be here

1271
01:13:17.175 --> 01:13:22.049
and to get the latest trends,
reactions on our games here.

1272
01:13:22.093 --> 01:13:24.138
[Reiner] It also brings a focus
for the press.

1273
01:13:24.182 --> 01:13:26.793
It brings a focus
for the journalists,

1274
01:13:26.837 --> 01:13:30.797
and that means the message
of "we are playing games"

1275
01:13:30.841 --> 01:13:34.148
gets really carried out into
the world, into the country,

1276
01:13:34.192 --> 01:13:36.281
and that's good
for the culture of gaming.

1277
01:13:36.324 --> 01:13:39.937
And that's also a very special
part of this convention.

1278
01:13:39.980 --> 01:13:44.071
If the world doesn't play games,
then we don't need
any game designers anymore,

1279
01:13:44.115 --> 01:13:48.119
and the world would be certainly
a much sadder place.

1280
01:13:48.162 --> 01:13:49.990
[car passes by]

1281
01:13:52.558 --> 01:13:54.647
[Jason] There's a local store,
Game Empire,

1282
01:13:54.691 --> 01:13:56.388
uh, run by this great dude
named Chuck.

1283
01:13:56.432 --> 01:13:58.521
He's been running...
has been in the game
for a hundred years.

1284
01:13:58.564 --> 01:14:02.394
And he was talking to me
about there's only two awards
that matter, on your box.

1285
01:14:02.438 --> 01:14:06.485
There's Spiel des Jahres
and there's also, um,
the Mensa award. Right?

1286
01:14:06.529 --> 01:14:10.489
Um, and if it's not one of those
two awards it doesn't matter.
Keep it off your box.

1287
01:14:10.533 --> 01:14:15.189
I think the award is great
because it gets people
really focused on quality,

1288
01:14:15.233 --> 01:14:17.453
and, uh, I don't know...

1289
01:14:17.496 --> 01:14:20.020
When you see that seal on
the box, it's something special.

1290
01:14:20.064 --> 01:14:22.762
I saw it on Settlers of Catan,
you know,

1291
01:14:22.806 --> 01:14:25.722
and that was a big moment for me
when I started playing that.

1292
01:14:25.765 --> 01:14:30.117
[foreign language]

1293
01:14:30.161 --> 01:14:31.771
Welcome everybody.

1294
01:14:31.815 --> 01:14:34.470
[Reiner] The Spiel des Jahres
in Germany is one of the most,

1295
01:14:34.513 --> 01:14:39.083
if not the most important awards
you can get
in the gaming industry.

1296
01:14:39.126 --> 01:14:40.998
There are three selected
every year.

1297
01:14:41.041 --> 01:14:44.175
One is for the children
and one is now more
for the gamers.

1298
01:14:44.218 --> 01:14:49.397
One is for the families
and there is a list of nominees.

1299
01:14:49.441 --> 01:14:53.837
Three and then,
like for the Oscars,
you go there,

1300
01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:58.624
and if you're lucky,
you are one of the better three,

1301
01:14:58.668 --> 01:15:00.496
one of the luckier three,

1302
01:15:01.409 --> 01:15:03.629
and you win
the Game of the Year.

1303
01:15:03.673 --> 01:15:08.721
The criteria is mostly
the experience
that the game can create,

1304
01:15:08.765 --> 01:15:12.551
of course, also, hardware,
the design,
the rules are important,

1305
01:15:12.595 --> 01:15:16.337
but, mostly,
it's just the, uh, experiences.

1306
01:15:16.381 --> 01:15:21.212
The Game of the Year
is actually decided
by a jury of journalists

1307
01:15:21.255 --> 01:15:25.346
who are very knowledgeable
about games,
who write a lot about games,

1308
01:15:25.390 --> 01:15:29.699
and who then sit together
until the white smoke comes up

1309
01:15:29.742 --> 01:15:32.963
and they have decided which one
is the Game of the Year.

1310
01:15:33.006 --> 01:15:37.010
There's people who say
we're like the Oscars
of the board games.

1311
01:15:37.054 --> 01:15:39.970
It's very important
in Europe, in Germany.

1312
01:15:40.013 --> 01:15:42.712
It's just something
that's been put in front of me.

1313
01:15:42.755 --> 01:15:46.542
And it's been so close
that it's just sort of this fun
thing to kind of aspire to

1314
01:15:46.585 --> 01:15:49.762
So, I think it gets a certain
amount of recognition,
and you get sales,

1315
01:15:49.806 --> 01:15:51.808
and then you get
this wooden popple,

1316
01:15:51.851 --> 01:15:53.592
which looks like
it'd be fun to hold.

1317
01:15:53.636 --> 01:15:55.942
I haven't touched it
because I don't want to ruin it.

1318
01:15:55.986 --> 01:15:57.248
[laughs]

1319
01:15:57.291 --> 01:16:00.599
So, when I won the Spiel
des Jahres with Hanabi,

1320
01:16:00.643 --> 01:16:03.646
I was a little confused
because it was the first time

1321
01:16:03.689 --> 01:16:05.996
they gave it
to a very small game,

1322
01:16:06.039 --> 01:16:11.915
so I was like, "Oh,
did they really give it to us?
Okay, oh, that's nice."

1323
01:16:11.958 --> 01:16:14.178
It was one of the stressful
moments of my life

1324
01:16:14.221 --> 01:16:16.354
and I have three kids,
I know stress.

1325
01:16:16.397 --> 01:16:19.270
And, uh, yeah, it was...
It's indescribable.

1326
01:16:19.313 --> 01:16:22.882
I... just remember
grinning a lot

1327
01:16:22.926 --> 01:16:25.929
and being really happy
and amazed.

1328
01:16:25.972 --> 01:16:31.674
Scary. Then it was, like,
really surprised,
and then you're really glad,

1329
01:16:31.717 --> 01:16:33.153
and then it was amazing.

1330
01:16:33.197 --> 01:16:36.722
[Antoine] The success was huge,
and I quit my day job.

1331
01:16:36.766 --> 01:16:41.684
I was a schoolteacher by then,
so I liked it, but I wanted
to design games full time.

1332
01:16:41.727 --> 01:16:48.778
The feeling was spectacular
because we had a lot of
financial problems at this time.

1333
01:16:48.821 --> 01:16:51.998
And um, this was a big help.

1334
01:16:52.042 --> 01:16:54.305
The feeling was, of course,
very nice.

1335
01:16:54.348 --> 01:16:57.525
I wasn't present
at the awards ceremony

1336
01:16:57.569 --> 01:17:01.312
because I, at that time,
was in America
and stuck in a little snowstorm.

1337
01:17:01.355 --> 01:17:04.576
And I was thinking whether
I should next time not go there

1338
01:17:04.620 --> 01:17:07.666
because maybe
that's a better luck
than going there all the time

1339
01:17:07.710 --> 01:17:08.841
and not getting
the Game of the Year.

1340
01:17:10.713 --> 01:17:13.933
I would like to segue
to Reiner Knizia
to say that everybody knows

1341
01:17:13.977 --> 01:17:15.674
he's unbelievably prolific.

1342
01:17:15.718 --> 01:17:19.678
He invented many
of the mechanics
that a lot of designers use.

1343
01:17:19.722 --> 01:17:23.377
He was one of the first guys
that made a career
out of business.

1344
01:17:23.421 --> 01:17:24.770
He's the consummate businessman.

1345
01:17:24.814 --> 01:17:27.033
Of course,
he's a great game designer,

1346
01:17:29.383 --> 01:17:35.172
but he built a business
out of being nothing
but a creative designer,

1347
01:17:35.215 --> 01:17:37.435
in a time when nobody's
even heard of that.

1348
01:17:37.478 --> 01:17:39.655
Nobody made a living doing this.

1349
01:17:39.698 --> 01:17:41.918
He just made game after game
after game after game.

1350
01:17:41.961 --> 01:17:44.181
The quality was amazing
and excellent.

1351
01:17:44.224 --> 01:17:50.709
The industry changes.
The games we are designing today
are different from the games

1352
01:17:50.753 --> 01:17:53.625
we decided to design
in the '90s.

1353
01:17:53.669 --> 01:17:57.063
What is relevant
to people is different,

1354
01:17:57.107 --> 01:17:59.196
therefore,
what excites them is different.

1355
01:17:59.239 --> 01:18:05.593
And I think one of the bigger
challenges in a long career
is to remain relevant

1356
01:18:05.637 --> 01:18:07.465
and not just stay
with your old tools.

1357
01:18:07.508 --> 01:18:11.469
And I think
one of the indicators

1358
01:18:11.512 --> 01:18:15.168
if you're still relevant
is being nominated
or winning awards.

1359
01:18:15.212 --> 01:18:20.130
It's crazy to be nominated.
It's very big.

1360
01:18:20.173 --> 01:18:22.785
It's what I dreamt of
all the time, so yeah...

1361
01:19:24.150 --> 01:19:27.675
[light music playing]

1362
01:19:33.943 --> 01:19:34.770
[camera shutter clicks]

1363
01:19:41.428 --> 01:19:45.911
[foreign language]

1364
01:19:45.955 --> 01:19:47.826
King Domino!

1365
01:19:47.870 --> 01:19:51.221
[applause]

1366
01:19:56.356 --> 01:20:00.404
[dramatic music playing]

1367
01:20:39.486 --> 01:20:43.490
He's done so much
for this industry.
He's always on every fair.

1368
01:20:43.534 --> 01:20:46.754
He's always working,
explaining his games
to other people,

1369
01:20:46.798 --> 01:20:49.845
so I think it's really important
for the industry,

1370
01:20:49.888 --> 01:20:53.544
so I was very happy
that at last he gets this award.
Yeah.

1371
01:21:30.581 --> 01:21:31.669
[laughs]

1372
01:21:31.712 --> 01:21:34.715
[dramatic music playing]

1373
01:21:39.068 --> 01:21:45.030
People say, uh, you sell a lot
of games after you win.

1374
01:21:45.074 --> 01:21:49.339
I mean, uh, we are not allowed
to talk about numbers,

1375
01:21:49.382 --> 01:21:56.085
but we can say it's at least
200,00 that you will make
in the next Christmas selling.

1376
01:21:56.128 --> 01:22:01.220
If a game
wins the Spiel des Jahres,
that Christmas in Germany,

1377
01:22:01.264 --> 01:22:03.962
it sells two-or-three hundred
thousand copies.

1378
01:22:04.006 --> 01:22:07.531
And then, you expect it has
some kind of a life after that.

1379
01:22:07.574 --> 01:22:12.144
A lot of people,
they buy games as gifts
at Christmas time

1380
01:22:12.188 --> 01:22:15.321
and they don't know
about which games
are the good ones.

1381
01:22:15.365 --> 01:22:20.109
And so over the years,
they trusted this association
as much

1382
01:22:20.152 --> 01:22:23.068
that they just go into the
stores and buy the game.

1383
01:22:24.896 --> 01:22:29.509
[light music playing]

1384
01:22:29.553 --> 01:22:32.686
So you asked me,
what can a game designer expect

1385
01:22:32.730 --> 01:22:35.080
when they publish one, two,
or three games,

1386
01:22:35.124 --> 01:22:38.040
and how financially sound
is that going to be?

1387
01:22:38.083 --> 01:22:41.478
My answer is,
if that's the question
you want to ask,

1388
01:22:41.521 --> 01:22:43.480
don't be a game designer.

1389
01:22:43.523 --> 01:22:45.699
The average royalty rate
in our industry

1390
01:22:45.743 --> 01:22:47.788
is between three
and ten percent.

1391
01:22:47.832 --> 01:22:51.009
So, what happens
is if you license a game
to a publisher,

1392
01:22:51.053 --> 01:22:55.144
let's say you get a 5% royalty
'cause that's just easy
to figure out.

1393
01:22:55.187 --> 01:22:59.191
And your game's gonna sell
for $20,
again, 'cause it's easy math.

1394
01:22:59.235 --> 01:23:02.455
So, I go to the store
and I buy your game for $20.

1395
01:23:02.499 --> 01:23:04.153
How much money do you get?

1396
01:23:04.196 --> 01:23:08.896
Well, the store gets $10
'cause that's their profit
on it,

1397
01:23:08.940 --> 01:23:12.291
and the publisher gets $10.

1398
01:23:12.335 --> 01:23:15.642
And they are going to give you
5% of that $10,

1399
01:23:15.686 --> 01:23:19.255
so they're going to give you
50 cents for a $20 game.

1400
01:23:22.171 --> 01:23:26.436
You just can't expect
that there's going to be
a lot of money initially.

1401
01:23:26.479 --> 01:23:31.484
It's gonna grow
as the game grows,
but it's gonna start very small.

1402
01:23:31.528 --> 01:23:33.791
I think if you do it
for the money,

1403
01:23:33.834 --> 01:23:36.620
you will not become
a successful game designer

1404
01:23:36.663 --> 01:23:39.318
and you will not become a
successful author.

1405
01:23:39.362 --> 01:23:42.452
You need to be prepared
to put a lot of energy in,

1406
01:23:42.495 --> 01:23:46.238
and you need to be
intrinsically motivated
because you want to do it.

1407
01:23:46.282 --> 01:23:51.287
You want to hold the box.
You want to say,
"I made this, I made this..."

1408
01:23:51.330 --> 01:23:53.985
I hate to even say
the word "product,"
I think that lessens it,

1409
01:23:54.029 --> 01:23:57.249
but like I made this
kind of piece of art
that everyone can enjoy.

1410
01:23:57.293 --> 01:24:00.948
One has to be a realistic.
Not every game is a highflier.

1411
01:24:00.992 --> 01:24:03.777
Everybody knows
it's like in the movie industry.

1412
01:24:03.821 --> 01:24:07.912
They say you make ten movies
and eight of them lose money

1413
01:24:07.955 --> 01:24:09.305
and one just earns
what it costs,

1414
01:24:09.348 --> 01:24:11.089
and the tenth
has to earn it all.

1415
01:24:11.133 --> 01:24:13.396
The problem is you never know
which one is the tenth,

1416
01:24:13.439 --> 01:24:15.180
and it's the same
with the games.

1417
01:24:35.244 --> 01:24:39.117
[Scott] Uh, I've been
looking forward to this moment,
um, for a long time.

1418
01:24:39.161 --> 01:24:44.340
Um, all I really wanted
is this game to be real,
and here it is.

1419
01:24:44.383 --> 01:24:48.605
It's real, it's on the shelf,
it exists as a thing
for people to buy,

1420
01:24:48.648 --> 01:24:51.086
and, uh, it's really cool.

1421
01:24:51.129 --> 01:24:55.133
I, um, I really, um,
I'm really proud that it's here

1422
01:24:55.177 --> 01:24:56.874
amongst all these other games
that I really like playing.

1423
01:24:56.917 --> 01:25:00.617
And now other people can come
and play it and buy it.

1424
01:25:01.922 --> 01:25:05.883
So, the story goes that George
Lucas went to King Features,

1425
01:25:05.926 --> 01:25:08.320
the guys who own Flash Gordon,
and said,

1426
01:25:08.364 --> 01:25:10.105
"Hey, I'd love to make a movie
of Flash Gordon,"

1427
01:25:10.148 --> 01:25:12.150
and they said,
"Nope, you can't do that."

1428
01:25:12.194 --> 01:25:15.327
And so, George says,
"Alright, I'm going to make
my own damn Flash Gordon,"

1429
01:25:15.371 --> 01:25:17.155
and he went off
and made Star Wars.

1430
01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:21.159
And... I wouldn't be lying
if that didn't inspire me
in the long run

1431
01:25:21.203 --> 01:25:22.856
to make my own damn Star Wars,

1432
01:25:22.900 --> 01:25:25.032
and that's Rayguns
and Rocketships.

1433
01:25:25.076 --> 01:25:27.513
So, you know, who knows,
if anybody wants to make a movie
of Rayguns and Rocketships,

1434
01:25:27.557 --> 01:25:28.427
give me a call.

1435
01:25:30.473 --> 01:25:32.388
[laughs]

1436
01:25:32.431 --> 01:25:34.912
'Cause then they'll make
their own damn thing.
No, I want... I want...

1437
01:25:34.955 --> 01:25:38.655
I can see
Rayguns and Rocketships
existing as a movie, right?

1438
01:25:38.698 --> 01:25:41.179
I have big plans
for Rayguns and Rocketships.

1439
01:25:41.223 --> 01:25:43.050
The question is...

1440
01:25:43.094 --> 01:25:46.532
[sighs]
...will people buy it and will
they be enthusiastic about it?

1441
01:25:46.576 --> 01:25:49.100
And if they are, then great,
then we're off and running,

1442
01:25:49.144 --> 01:25:52.147
and it means,
hopefully, expansions
and all types of good stuff.

1443
01:25:52.190 --> 01:25:54.149
And then, hopefully,
it will grow.

1444
01:25:54.192 --> 01:25:57.282
Hopefully, it will grow
into bigger and better

1445
01:25:57.326 --> 01:25:59.893
and more interesting versions
of the game

1446
01:25:59.937 --> 01:26:01.547
and of the story
and of the universe

1447
01:26:01.591 --> 01:26:04.898
because that's what got me
really excited

1448
01:26:04.942 --> 01:26:08.032
about making Rayguns
and Rocketships is I got to...

1449
01:26:08.075 --> 01:26:12.732
I'm making a universe,
a galaxy from scratch,
and it's a lot of fun.

1450
01:26:14.995 --> 01:26:17.868
[Charlie] Once we were
almost out of the first edition,

1451
01:26:17.911 --> 01:26:23.090
I was personally feeling like I
didn't want to reprint the game,
unless I did a nice update,

1452
01:26:23.134 --> 01:26:24.962
clean up some of the stuff
I wasn't happy with,

1453
01:26:25.005 --> 01:26:29.140
cut out all the extra fat
and make it exactly the game

1454
01:26:29.184 --> 01:26:31.664
that will make my customer
the happiest.

1455
01:26:31.708 --> 01:26:33.318
Basically, I wanted
to make a second edition.

1456
01:26:33.362 --> 01:26:36.539
My parents, they were happy
with the pace it was selling.

1457
01:26:36.582 --> 01:26:42.240
It was running out,
but this isn't sustainable,
ordering another run of the game

1458
01:26:42.284 --> 01:26:44.199
the way we're doing it now
isn't going to fix anything.

1459
01:26:44.242 --> 01:26:47.680
Something needs to change big,
if it's worth continuing
to do this

1460
01:26:47.724 --> 01:26:48.855
is to try to make
a business out of it.

1461
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:53.904
Months and months later,
an opportunity kind of
presented itself

1462
01:26:53.947 --> 01:26:56.341
where I could do
a second edition
with another company.

1463
01:26:56.385 --> 01:26:58.778
I was working another job
for a while,

1464
01:26:58.822 --> 01:27:04.219
and then I,
just sort of by happenstance,
met the partner that I have now.

1465
01:27:04.262 --> 01:27:05.829
He's an Amazon seller.

1466
01:27:05.872 --> 01:27:07.483
He's been in the game industry
for a while,

1467
01:27:07.526 --> 01:27:09.615
and he wanted to start
publishing.

1468
01:27:09.659 --> 01:27:12.879
And so, we decided,
we kind of met up and decided,
let's start Underdog Games.

1469
01:27:12.923 --> 01:27:17.232
And our first product is the
second edition of Trekking.

1470
01:27:17.275 --> 01:27:18.624
It just seemed like
the perfect time

1471
01:27:18.668 --> 01:27:19.886
to just rekindle it
right then and there.

1472
01:27:19.930 --> 01:27:22.106
The new model for Trekking:
Second Edition,

1473
01:27:22.149 --> 01:27:25.892
we finally got serious
about Amazon.com.

1474
01:27:25.936 --> 01:27:29.418
Sort of investing more
in web sales
and advertising online,

1475
01:27:29.461 --> 01:27:31.594
and the reactions have been
night and day different.

1476
01:27:31.637 --> 01:27:33.552
We've been selling
a ton of them.

1477
01:27:33.596 --> 01:27:39.384
We did an initial print run
of 9000 copies
of Trekking: Second Edition

1478
01:27:39.428 --> 01:27:41.560
and within three months
it was all out.

1479
01:27:41.604 --> 01:27:44.781
We had to reprint again,
so there's already a second
printing of the Second Edition,

1480
01:27:44.824 --> 01:27:48.480
and we've just been
trying to get it out
to more and more people.

1481
01:27:48.524 --> 01:27:50.569
And, hopefully, next year,
we'll actually get
into retail stores.

1482
01:27:50.613 --> 01:27:56.227
I think my parents' reaction
had I sold the game,
they might've been disappointed,

1483
01:27:56.271 --> 01:28:00.144
but I, honestly, think they are
looking for my best interests

1484
01:28:00.187 --> 01:28:02.494
and they have a longer view
than I have.

1485
01:28:02.538 --> 01:28:05.845
Um, and, uh,
I have to thank them for that.

1486
01:28:05.889 --> 01:28:08.935
There are some things
that I think I see
way more clearly than they do,

1487
01:28:08.979 --> 01:28:12.374
and, um, I have to say that
the decision not to sell

1488
01:28:12.417 --> 01:28:14.767
was something they saw
a lot more clearly than I did.

1489
01:28:15.942 --> 01:28:18.075
I'm happy that I did it
as a family

1490
01:28:18.118 --> 01:28:23.298
because I did not have the tools
or the resources to do it alone.

1491
01:28:23.341 --> 01:28:27.824
[light music playing]

1492
01:28:27.867 --> 01:28:31.480
The main thing that I want
is to be in this industry.

1493
01:28:31.523 --> 01:28:33.046
I want this to be...

1494
01:28:33.090 --> 01:28:35.962
I want it to be my resumÃÂ©
that I am in the game industry.

1495
01:28:36.006 --> 01:28:38.574
"Oh, Charlie Bink?"
"Yeah,
he's in the game industry."

1496
01:28:38.617 --> 01:28:40.924
And so, wherever I end up
or whatever I end up doing,

1497
01:28:40.967 --> 01:28:43.100
I wanted to be
in this industry, so...

1498
01:28:43.143 --> 01:28:44.667
I think I'm on my way.

1499
01:28:44.710 --> 01:28:48.105
I think I'm crawling
in that direction.

1500
01:28:48.148 --> 01:28:51.587
[light music playing]

1501
01:28:58.115 --> 01:28:59.551
We funded!

1502
01:28:59.595 --> 01:29:02.032
So, we just finished
the Kickstarter,

1503
01:29:02.075 --> 01:29:05.035
and, uh, it was kind
of a crazy ride.

1504
01:29:05.078 --> 01:29:06.732
Had a really interesting time.

1505
01:29:06.776 --> 01:29:09.692
I mean, there was a lot
of results
that we were expecting

1506
01:29:09.735 --> 01:29:12.085
and there was definitely
a lot of surprises.

1507
01:29:12.129 --> 01:29:15.872
A bittersweet journey
throughout,
but at the end of the day,

1508
01:29:15.915 --> 01:29:18.396
it was extremely positive
and we actually were able
to connect

1509
01:29:18.440 --> 01:29:22.400
with a pretty excited crew
of backers.

1510
01:29:22.444 --> 01:29:26.230
So, by making our game
more affordable
and by using standees,

1511
01:29:26.273 --> 01:29:29.581
our goal was to make it
accessible to the audience

1512
01:29:29.625 --> 01:29:31.844
that the game was,
not necessarily
originally intended for,

1513
01:29:31.888 --> 01:29:35.282
but that we wanted to bring
into the gaming space.

1514
01:29:35.326 --> 01:29:37.154
You know, it's kind of like
a kind of love letter
to the streets,

1515
01:29:37.197 --> 01:29:38.460
now they can have it, too.

1516
01:29:38.503 --> 01:29:40.984
We'd always asked ourselves
many, many times,

1517
01:29:41.027 --> 01:29:42.942
"Is this too much?
Is this too far?"

1518
01:29:42.986 --> 01:29:46.903
And in every case,
after listening to critics

1519
01:29:46.946 --> 01:29:48.861
and after really thinking
about what we are doing,

1520
01:29:48.905 --> 01:29:51.168
our answer was always,
"No, really this isn't far
enough."

1521
01:29:51.211 --> 01:29:53.475
We're going right to the edge,
looking down,

1522
01:29:53.518 --> 01:29:55.520
and it's awesome like we really
like the view here.

1523
01:29:55.564 --> 01:29:58.001
We didn't want to do something
that had already been done
in the space before.

1524
01:29:58.044 --> 01:30:00.786
We didn't want to do anything
that was untrue
to our artistic vision,

1525
01:30:00.830 --> 01:30:05.095
to our design vision,
and to the kind of thematic core
of the game.

1526
01:30:05.138 --> 01:30:06.966
The name itself says it all.

1527
01:30:07.010 --> 01:30:10.361
If you're not trying to create
this sort of street life
experience,

1528
01:30:10.405 --> 01:30:12.711
the game is called Thug Life.
Why even bother?

1529
01:30:12.755 --> 01:30:17.412
[light music playing]

1530
01:30:27.422 --> 01:30:32.165
[train rumbling]

1531
01:30:35.081 --> 01:30:36.866
I'm back in New York.

1532
01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:41.479
[Nashra] For the past year,
I have been traveling,

1533
01:30:41.523 --> 01:30:46.615
speaking at places such as
human rights conventions,
game design conferences,

1534
01:30:46.658 --> 01:30:48.791
women's empowerment events,

1535
01:30:48.834 --> 01:30:53.491
and I've gotten the opportunity
to do all of this
because of my game.

1536
01:30:53.535 --> 01:30:56.320
I've also come back to America

1537
01:30:56.363 --> 01:30:59.758
because the visa that I got
was based off of this game.

1538
01:30:59.802 --> 01:31:02.979
And now I am pursuing my career.

1539
01:31:03.022 --> 01:31:05.285
I'm living the lovely
freelance life

1540
01:31:05.329 --> 01:31:07.853
doing whatever it is
I want to do,

1541
01:31:07.897 --> 01:31:11.117
and it's all 'cause of Arranged!

1542
01:31:11.161 --> 01:31:15.339
So now that I finally
don't have this pressure,
I don't have this timeline

1543
01:31:15.382 --> 01:31:18.081
that has been provided to me
by society,

1544
01:31:18.124 --> 01:31:22.302
I am pursuing my career
and I'm at my own pace.

1545
01:31:22.346 --> 01:31:24.957
I'm doing it if and when
it feels right for me,

1546
01:31:25.001 --> 01:31:30.572
and I'm not rushed
by this deadline of turning 26
and having to get married.

1547
01:31:30.615 --> 01:31:34.140
After I released this game,
all the proposals stopped.

1548
01:31:34.184 --> 01:31:37.753
And my dad even said,
"You wanted to make sure
you wouldn't get married

1549
01:31:37.796 --> 01:31:39.145
and now you've done that."

1550
01:31:39.189 --> 01:31:42.148
A lot of girls from India
have reached out to me

1551
01:31:42.192 --> 01:31:43.976
to thank me for releasing
the game

1552
01:31:44.020 --> 01:31:46.544
because it has given them
a platform

1553
01:31:46.588 --> 01:31:49.547
to discuss this topic
with their parents.

1554
01:31:49.591 --> 01:31:51.723
They have either played it
with their parents

1555
01:31:51.767 --> 01:31:54.030
or even just shown them articles
and been like,

1556
01:31:54.073 --> 01:31:56.946
"Look, here is this girl
who's out there
pursuing her career

1557
01:31:56.989 --> 01:31:58.469
and doing all these
great things,

1558
01:31:58.513 --> 01:32:00.819
why won't you let us do
the same?"

1559
01:32:00.863 --> 01:32:03.430
So, it's definitely been
an amazing feeling

1560
01:32:03.474 --> 01:32:06.477
to know that I have helped
change people's lives.

1561
01:32:06.521 --> 01:32:09.436
[light music playing]

1562
01:32:09.480 --> 01:32:15.007
What's most important
in any creative endeavor
is creation.

1563
01:32:15.051 --> 01:32:17.488
You actually have
to build the things.

1564
01:32:17.532 --> 01:32:18.924
You actually have to try
the experiments.

1565
01:32:18.968 --> 01:32:20.796
You actually have to talk
to the people

1566
01:32:20.839 --> 01:32:25.191
and get as much creative output
as you can
out there into the world.

1567
01:32:25.235 --> 01:32:26.932
99% of them are going to suck.

1568
01:32:26.976 --> 01:32:29.805
Probably in your first try,
a 100% of them
are going to suck,

1569
01:32:29.848 --> 01:32:33.591
but there's always little
nuggets that you learn from,
that you can grab from,

1570
01:32:33.635 --> 01:32:36.289
that you can pull from various
things that you've tried,

1571
01:32:36.333 --> 01:32:38.770
bolt them together in a new way,
and try a hundred more things.

1572
01:32:38.814 --> 01:32:40.598
And those are all going
to fail, too,

1573
01:32:40.642 --> 01:32:43.775
but you'll continue
to run through that process

1574
01:32:43.819 --> 01:32:46.082
over and over
and over again, um,

1575
01:32:46.125 --> 01:32:47.692
until something good comes out

1576
01:32:47.736 --> 01:32:51.000
and that something good
is the result

1577
01:32:51.043 --> 01:32:54.220
of the entirety
of your creative output.

1578
01:32:54.264 --> 01:32:57.223
And that's exactly
what you should be presenting
to the world,

1579
01:32:57.267 --> 01:33:01.271
and that's what you should be
striving to present to the world
every single day.

1580
01:33:01.314 --> 01:33:04.317
[dreamy music playing]

1581
01:33:53.279 --> 01:33:56.282
[mellow music playing]

1582
01:34:38.673 --> 01:34:41.676
[dreamy music playing]

1583
01:35:17.624 --> 01:35:20.627
[mellow music playing]