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>> Unhappy in Brazil,
Bohm traveled to Israel,

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where he accepted a positionat the Technion in Haifa.

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While in Israel, Bohm
also met and married

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the woman who was to become
his lifelong partner, Sarah

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Woolfson.

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[music playing]

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>> David had been exiled
to Brazil after the House

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Un-American Activities business.

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And he was never happy there.

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There were many
problems, he felt.

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And then he was offeredan opportunity in Israel.

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And of course, it was a
new state at the time.

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And also, of course,
he was Jewish.

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Maybe he saw this as
a good opportunity.

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And he'd only been
there a couple of weeks

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when he was invited to a party.

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And Saral was present.

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And she spotted him
from across the room

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and immediately was
interested in this young man.

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I would describe Saral as
a very motherly person.

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She wanted to look after people.

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She liked to feed people.

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She was very sociable
and including everyone.

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>> My wife and I used togo to the public library.

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And she discovered a
book by Krishnamurti.

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And she read in there
the words of the observer

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and the observed.

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And I had been interested
in that because, in quantum

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mechanics, that is a key
question, in the sense that,

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because of this
undivided wholeness,

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the two cannot be separated.

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>> And she opened the book,and in it immediately saw

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references to things withregard to the observer

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and the observed.

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And she was startled
because that's what David

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was working with in physics.

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And Saral is trying to
understand how could this

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be that this Indian
philosopher is also

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talking about the
observer and the observed.

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[music playing]

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>> From Israel, Bohm
moved to Bristol.

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And it was here that
his fundamental ideas

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on the nature of reality
began to take fresh impetus.

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In Bristol, Bohm left hishidden variable ideas behind,

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and was now focusing on the factthat, despite decades of work,

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physicists had been unableto reconcile quantum theory

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with Einstein's relativity.

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>> He's left behind
his hidden variables.

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He's left that
behind, and now he's

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asking, why has there
been decades of work

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on relativity and
quantum theory,

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the two key theories ofphysics, why are there two?

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Why is it not just one theory,one unified theory, as Einstein

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had hoped there would be?

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And so he's wondering,
do we need a new theory?

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Is that the core issue?

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Or is a completely new order
to physics, a new approach?

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And that was what he
began to think about, what

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he called the implicate order.

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We need a radically new order.

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So that was where his thinking
was when he arrived in Britain.

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>> At this time, Bohm also
developed a new interest that

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was to have a deep impact
on his life and his approach

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to science.

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As we have seen,
quantum physics has long

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been concerned with the process
of wave function observation.

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And Bohm was very much
aware that, depending

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on the conditions
of an experiment,

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that electrons would behave
differently depending

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on what was being observed.

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>> When I was younger, I
felt that, in the beginning,

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that science would surely be a
source of benefiting mankind.

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And I had no question about it.

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I began to feel that
something beyond science

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would be needed to
approach this question,

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you see, that science
alone could not

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guarantee that it would be
used for benefiting mankind,

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the scientific impulse.

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In the beginning, I thought
it would, just truth alone.

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Then I began to look intophilosophy, Eastern and Western

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and so on, and some peoplewith religious ideas.

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I mean, just simply looking
at it when I was in Bristol,

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in England.

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>> In quantum physics, in
the study of the behavior

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of the electron, you had this
very mysterious property that

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your act of observing the
electron changes it in such

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a way that there's a link
between the apparatus

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of observation and
what is observed.

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And Krishnamurti made a
similar statement about events

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in the psychological
field, which

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is that the act of
observing something

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inwardly, some emotion or
some attitude or whatever,

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the very seeing
of it changes it,

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so that the inward sense of an
observer, myself, who's looking

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is inextricably connected
with whatever I'm looking at.

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And so Krishnamurti
expressed that

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in sort of an
aphoristic fashion,

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by saying the observer
is the observed.

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>> Which, in essence, took
the questions that David was

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working with in physics and
flipped them into the human

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realm--

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the realm of human experience,
human life, human difficulties.

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David felt that Krishnamurti
was on to something

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of great importance
that could help

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to complete the
sense of wholeness

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that he was trying to bring to
light with his work in physics.

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>> Krishnamurti's approachaligned with Bohm's own views

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on the nature of
thought, of reality,

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and on the nature ofconsciousness, in particular,

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seen as a coherent whole whichis never static or complete,

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but a continuous processof enfolding and unfolding.

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Both Bohm and
Krishnamurti questioned

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their respective backgrounds,
ultimately rejecting

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the orthodoxy they had once
felt would provide answers

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to humanity's big questions.

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>> In his early life, he
was kind of adopted by this

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organization called the
Theosophical Society,

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which discovered him when he was
a 14-year-old boy on the beach

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in South India.

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And they predicted
that he was going

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to become this great what
they called world teacher,

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and bring a new kind of
consciousness to mankind.

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And they cultivated him and
nourished him in this role.

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But somewhere about the age
of 25, 27, maybe a little

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bit earlier than that, he
began to seriously question

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all of this, and find
it very limiting,

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similarly to the way Bohm had
found the scientific orthodoxy

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to be limiting.

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>> So Bohm wanted
to meet this man.

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And they had this meeting,
and I'm told partway

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through it Krishnamurti was
supposed to have stood up

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with pleasure or
enthusiasm or whatever,

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and said you have seen it,
sir, so that Bohm had seen it.

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And then Bohm began to have
more meetings with Krishnamurti.

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He became a trustee of
Krishnamurti's school

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at Brockwood Park.

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[music playing]

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>> It was at Brockwood Park that
Bohm and Krishnamurti entered

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into a series of conversations
whose themes covered the ending

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of time, the nature
of mind, cosmic order,

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and much more over
a 25-year period.

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>> And from Krishnamurti's
perspective,

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it was very important for him
because he felt as though he

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had a tremendous reservoir
of insights to share with

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the world, but he felt like he
couldn't necessarily bring it

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out by himself.

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He needed people to ask him.

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He needed people to dig
and to question him.

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And of all the people he evermet, Bohm was the best at that.

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And I think Bohm,
to some extent,

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formed a similar function
for Krishnamurti,

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because Krishnamurti could raise
questions with him that might

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not occur in another context.

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>> Grief is not my grief.

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Grief is human.

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>> Yes, now but how are
to people to see that?

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Because a person
feeling grief feels

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that it's his grief, you--

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[chuckles] I mean,
doesn't that seem right?

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>> Yes, sir.

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I think it is because
partly of our education,

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partly our society, tradition.

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>> But it's also implicit in
our whole way of thinking.

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>> Yeah.

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Oh, [inaudible].

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Quite right.

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So--

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>> And we have to
jump out of that.

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>> Yes.

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>> But perhaps we can see
that love is not personal.

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Love does not belong
to anybody, any more

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than any other quality does.

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>> Earth is not English
Earth or French Earth.

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Earth is Earth.

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>> You see?

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And I was thinking of
an example in physics

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that, if a scientist
or chemist is studying

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an element such as sodium, it's
not that he studies his sodium,

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and somebody else
studies his sodium,

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and they somehow compare notes.

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>> Quite, quite, quite.

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Sodium is sodium.

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>> Sodium is sodium universally.

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>> Yes.

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>> And if we have to say love
is love universally, right?

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Essentially, the point
made by Krishnamurti

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was that the problems
of mankind originate

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in thought itself, in
consciousness itself, you see?

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And as previous to
that, I had grown up

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believing that poverty was
the main problem of mankind,

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and science would help
me eliminate that.

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And I could see that no
matter how far science went,

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it probably wouldn't.

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And even if it did,
it wouldn't really

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solve-- it wouldn't
really make mankind happy.

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>> I remember I once
asked Bohm, I said, well,

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what do you think, what's
the main contribution

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of Krishnamurti?

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And if I remember
it correctly, Bohm

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said something like that
Krishnamurti kind of pointed

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out that thought is an
actual movement in our lives.

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It's a physical movement,
physiological movement.

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And it has a tremendous power.

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It's behind almost
all our problems.

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>> And we have to give attention
to that manner in which thought

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is participating and shaping
what we observe in order

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to understand how our
whole mind is working,

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especially with respect to
conflicts which occur between

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you and me, between my
country and another country,

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and also the conflicts
which occur inwardly.

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>> And there, then, of course,Krishnamurti was suggesting

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that, if you are
able to be quiet,

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the deeper layers of realitymight open up for you.

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>> So in that state of mind,
the mind is not just blank.

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You know, I'm not
doing anything.

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It's very active.

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The thinking
process doesn't have

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to do with thought or
recognition or knowledge,

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but it's in a state of
just perception, awareness,

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attention.

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Maybe you could even say
receptivity to truth.

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>> There might have been
many reasons Bohm was drawn

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to Krishnamurti.

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The ones that are
apparent to me,

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Bohm perceived the
wholeness of life.

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He perceived life as
one indivisible whole,

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including nature,
including consciousness.

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And in Krishnamurti,
he found someone

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who also had this notion.

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>> Krishnamurti, who
was actually addressing

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the separation of the observerand the observed in the same

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way as the wholeness inquantum theory was saying,

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you can't make a separation
between the system that

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you're looking at
and the apparatus,

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which was the oldtraditional way of doing it,

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that somehow these
things formed a whole.

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But rather than saying
you can't develop concepts

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for it, what David was trying
to do was to develop concepts.

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Now, to develop
those concepts you

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can't develop within
the scientific context.

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You've got to go outside
to a wider set of concepts.

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And he found in
Krishnamurti a way

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of discussing this
more general question.

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>> I remember one day
we were here in Italy,

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and he said to me, do you thinkI should give up doing physics

249
00:12:56,601 --> 00:12:59,604
and just devote myself
to Krishnamurti?

250
00:12:59,735 --> 00:13:03,217
And my reply was
kind of, fish exist

251
00:13:03,347 --> 00:13:06,220
outside the goldfish bowl.

252
00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:07,438
But that was it.

253
00:13:07,569 --> 00:13:09,876
He was that extreme,
that maybe he

254
00:13:10,006 --> 00:13:12,182
should devote himself
completely to having

255
00:13:12,313 --> 00:13:13,793
his own brain transformed.

256
00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:25,369
>> Having settled
permanently in the UK,

257
00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:29,721
it was while at Birkbeck College
in London that Bohm formed one

258
00:13:29,852 --> 00:13:33,682
of the most enduring science
partnerships of his life with

259
00:13:33,813 --> 00:13:36,641
physicist Basil Hiley.

260
00:13:36,772 --> 00:13:40,428
And he also had an unexpectedand welcome encounter

261
00:13:40,558 --> 00:13:42,386
with a forgotten theory.

262
00:13:42,517 --> 00:13:46,042
And that encounter
changed everything.

263
00:13:46,173 --> 00:13:49,785
[music playing]

264
00:13:49,915 --> 00:13:54,398
>> At that time, David Bohm wasdeveloping a new idea which was

265
00:13:54,529 --> 00:13:59,099
called structured process, thatbasically we want to start with

266
00:13:59,229 --> 00:14:00,361
process.

267
00:14:00,491 --> 00:14:04,756
Not particles
moving in spacetime,

268
00:14:04,887 --> 00:14:09,761
but a process from which
both particles and spacetime

269
00:14:09,892 --> 00:14:10,675
can emerge.

270
00:14:10,806 --> 00:14:14,679
Very radical ideas.

271
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:18,118
Chris Dewdney and ChrisPhillipidis came up to me

272
00:14:18,248 --> 00:14:22,557
and said, why don't youtalk about the '52 paper?

273
00:14:22,687 --> 00:14:24,428
And that's when I
said, mm, uh, mm,

274
00:14:24,559 --> 00:14:27,997
uh, because I think it's wrong.

275
00:14:28,128 --> 00:14:29,956
And that's when Chris
said to me, Basil,

276
00:14:30,086 --> 00:14:32,610
have you read the paper?

277
00:14:32,741 --> 00:14:37,920
And I then had to
agree that I hadn't.

278
00:14:38,051 --> 00:14:40,792
>> It had been decades since
the physics orthodoxy had

279
00:14:40,923 --> 00:14:44,535
blackballed Bohm and
his hidden variables.

280
00:14:44,665 --> 00:14:46,537
It would take a new
team of mavericks

281
00:14:46,668 --> 00:14:49,497
to unearth this critical
work and resurrect it

282
00:14:49,627 --> 00:14:51,673
for a new generation.

283
00:14:51,803 --> 00:14:54,850
>> Well, I got to know David
Bohm quite well when I was

284
00:14:54,981 --> 00:14:57,766
a lecturer at Birkbeck College.

285
00:14:57,897 --> 00:15:00,203
We had many very
interesting discussions,

286
00:15:00,334 --> 00:15:05,948
and Bohm was somebody
who I got a lot from.

287
00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:09,865
I always thought that he wasvery much like a wave function

288
00:15:09,996 --> 00:15:12,694
himself, that you'd
ask a question,

289
00:15:12,824 --> 00:15:14,435
you see, a very
specific question.

290
00:15:14,565 --> 00:15:18,874
And he would be very focused and
give you a deep, very focused

291
00:15:19,005 --> 00:15:20,484
answer to that question.

292
00:15:20,615 --> 00:15:22,443
And then it would
start to spread out,

293
00:15:22,573 --> 00:15:24,880
and it would encompass a
little more about physics,

294
00:15:25,011 --> 00:15:26,969
and then it spread, and
then about philology,

295
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:29,015
and about human
nature, and so on.

296
00:15:29,145 --> 00:15:30,842
And I'd get a bit lost
about what's going on,

297
00:15:30,973 --> 00:15:32,409
so I'd need another question.

298
00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:35,586
I'd ask him another
question, and then woomph.

299
00:15:35,717 --> 00:15:38,720
The conversation would
focus itself very deeply

300
00:15:38,850 --> 00:15:40,156
on this particular point.

301
00:15:40,287 --> 00:15:42,028
And he would give a very
succinct answer to that,

302
00:15:42,158 --> 00:15:43,943
and then again he would
spread out like this.

303
00:15:44,073 --> 00:15:46,554
So it's just the way a wave
functions as you measure it,

304
00:15:46,684 --> 00:15:47,511
it's the particle here.

305
00:15:47,642 --> 00:15:48,904
And woomph, you see?

306
00:15:49,035 --> 00:15:52,212
And then it spreads
out again, like this.

307
00:15:52,342 --> 00:15:55,389
>> They'd finally developed
sufficient computing power

308
00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:58,696
needed to run the complex
mathematics required

309
00:15:58,827 --> 00:16:01,308
to describe Bohm's
hidden variables.

310
00:16:01,438 --> 00:16:04,441
>> I think it'd be a veryvaluable thing if we could show

311
00:16:04,572 --> 00:16:08,837
clearly how Bohm's '52 theoryworked in the two slits

312
00:16:08,968 --> 00:16:11,840
experiment, because obviously,the two slits experiment is

313
00:16:11,971 --> 00:16:16,845
the iconic experiment in theinterpretation of quantum

314
00:16:16,976 --> 00:16:18,238
theory.

315
00:16:18,368 --> 00:16:21,023
And so Basil went off
and read the papers.

316
00:16:21,154 --> 00:16:24,896
I set about calculating the
particle trajectories for this.

317
00:16:25,027 --> 00:16:30,250
And Chris Phillipidis produced
the quantum potential picture.

318
00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:34,254
>> And that's what Chris was
an absolute master at, was

319
00:16:34,384 --> 00:16:39,346
actually developing computer
programs to actually simulate

320
00:16:39,476 --> 00:16:43,176
this, and let's have a look
at what is going on here.

321
00:16:43,306 --> 00:16:45,439
>> When we put the
two together, I mean,

322
00:16:45,569 --> 00:16:51,010
we were initially I think quite
staggered by how amazing this

323
00:16:51,140 --> 00:16:55,318
story was, which had never
been told in any sort of clear,

324
00:16:55,449 --> 00:16:57,103
detailed way.

325
00:16:57,233 --> 00:17:01,585
>> And there was a trajectory
for the two slits experiment.

326
00:17:01,716 --> 00:17:04,371
Wow.

327
00:17:04,501 --> 00:17:08,549
>> You could actually see in the
images that reproduced exactly

328
00:17:08,679 --> 00:17:12,509
how you could have particle
trajectories in the two slits

329
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,643
experiment and account for
interference, something,

330
00:17:15,772 --> 00:17:20,256
of course, which is forbidden
in normal quantum theory.

331
00:17:20,387 --> 00:17:23,477
[music playing]

332
00:17:25,261 --> 00:17:28,134
You could actually see how
the thing worked exactly.

333
00:17:28,263 --> 00:17:31,093
You could follow
individual particles

334
00:17:31,224 --> 00:17:36,185
as it was affected by this
potential through space,

335
00:17:36,316 --> 00:17:39,101
and consequentially
would guide particles

336
00:17:39,232 --> 00:17:41,277
into the bright
interference fringes.

337
00:17:45,673 --> 00:17:49,024
>> Wherever there was a dipin the quantum potential--

338
00:17:49,155 --> 00:17:52,549
that's the rate of change of apotential, which is a force--

339
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,769
and the trajectories wouldjump across the ditch.

340
00:17:54,899 --> 00:17:56,858
And when they were
on the plateaus,

341
00:17:56,988 --> 00:17:58,686
they would just come straight.

342
00:17:58,816 --> 00:18:00,775
And the end result
was a gathering

343
00:18:00,905 --> 00:18:04,648
of these trajectories
which explained completely

344
00:18:04,779 --> 00:18:05,649
the interference pattern.

345
00:18:08,739 --> 00:18:11,220
>> There was a physicist,
Franco Selleri,

346
00:18:11,351 --> 00:18:15,311
who was particularly supportive
of this work once he'd learned

347
00:18:15,442 --> 00:18:17,052
about it.

348
00:18:17,183 --> 00:18:22,275
And he referred to these movies
as the hard porn of physics,

349
00:18:22,405 --> 00:18:28,498
in a sense, because they would
be censored by the orthodoxy.

350
00:18:28,629 --> 00:18:30,674
You shouldn't be able
to see this stuff,

351
00:18:30,805 --> 00:18:35,375
and yet here we were
projecting it in front of them.

352
00:18:35,505 --> 00:18:38,073
>> At that stage, when
Dave was still alive,

353
00:18:38,204 --> 00:18:41,207
he saw these trajectories
and this quantum potential,

354
00:18:41,337 --> 00:18:45,689
and his eyes actually lit up
because he had not seen them.

355
00:18:45,820 --> 00:18:49,171
He'd written about them,
but he had not seen them.

356
00:18:49,302 --> 00:18:52,000
And then we started discussing
the quantum potential,

357
00:18:52,131 --> 00:18:54,437
what could it mean.

358
00:18:54,568 --> 00:18:56,178
And this quantum
potential energy

359
00:18:56,309 --> 00:19:01,836
only functions when
quantum phenomena appear.

360
00:19:01,966 --> 00:19:06,319
That is, in the particle
approaching two slits,

361
00:19:06,449 --> 00:19:10,018
it is the quantum
potential that organizes

362
00:19:10,149 --> 00:19:13,152
the way the individual
trajectories work.

363
00:19:13,282 --> 00:19:16,720
So there is a
dynamic whole process

364
00:19:16,851 --> 00:19:21,595
going on in which the
quantum potential appears.

365
00:19:21,725 --> 00:19:24,293
>> If you're looking at
interpretations or ways

366
00:19:24,424 --> 00:19:27,209
of looking at quantum mechanics,my view is that probably

367
00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:31,170
the Bohm-Hiley way of looking atquantum mechanics has the most

368
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:33,128
satisfactory ontology.

369
00:19:33,259 --> 00:19:36,392
So you have a picture of
what constitutes reality

370
00:19:36,523 --> 00:19:39,395
without changing
quantum mechanics.

371
00:19:39,526 --> 00:19:42,833
[music playing]

372
00:19:44,531 --> 00:19:46,533
>> The Bohmian theory made
a clear prediction about

373
00:19:46,663 --> 00:19:48,665
the nonlocality of the world.

374
00:19:48,796 --> 00:19:50,145
What is nonlocality?

375
00:19:50,276 --> 00:19:54,062
Nonlocality is really, to
put it in simple words,

376
00:19:54,193 --> 00:19:57,587
the profound discovery
of the interconnectedness

377
00:19:57,718 --> 00:20:02,897
of the universe at the
fundamental level of quantum.

378
00:20:03,027 --> 00:20:09,469
Now, that conflicts deeply right
away with relativity theory,

379
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,776
where it says, no, the
speed of light is limited.

380
00:20:12,907 --> 00:20:15,126
Everything is local.

381
00:20:15,257 --> 00:20:17,564
Nothing can travel faster
than the speed of light,

382
00:20:17,694 --> 00:20:19,870
so how could everything
be instantaneously

383
00:20:20,001 --> 00:20:22,046
interconnected in the universe?

384
00:20:22,177 --> 00:20:24,832
And that's the big clash
that we have today.

385
00:20:24,962 --> 00:20:27,530
And that's why also Bohm's
theory of hidden variables,

386
00:20:27,661 --> 00:20:30,968
which are nonlocal, has really
been rejected from the start.

387
00:20:31,099 --> 00:20:33,057
>> It seems strange to us.

388
00:20:33,188 --> 00:20:34,798
And I stress the word seems.

389
00:20:34,929 --> 00:20:37,671
But if we want to make senseof a theory, that matters also.

390
00:20:37,801 --> 00:20:41,065
And sometimes when a theory
seems strange, we get past it.

391
00:20:41,196 --> 00:20:42,632
And other times when
it seems strange,

392
00:20:42,763 --> 00:20:44,155
it's pointing us to
something that we

393
00:20:44,286 --> 00:20:46,288
haven't understood well enough.

394
00:20:46,419 --> 00:20:49,552
>> It really says that
there exists a hidden regime

395
00:20:49,683 --> 00:20:53,730
of reality in which
everything is interconnected,

396
00:20:53,861 --> 00:20:57,212
but no person,
even in the future,

397
00:20:57,343 --> 00:21:03,305
will be able to access
that domain and control it.

398
00:21:03,436 --> 00:21:05,133
So this is also what
the mystical traditions

399
00:21:05,264 --> 00:21:09,572
tell us, that we must be
humble in front of reality,

400
00:21:09,703 --> 00:21:12,619
that there will always be
domains of reality that

401
00:21:12,749 --> 00:21:17,319
will remain beyond science,
beyond the scientific method,

402
00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:20,409
will remain beyond access
by scientific agents.

403
00:21:20,540 --> 00:21:23,499
And if the quantum potential
is discovered in this way

404
00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:27,938
and nonlocality is proven, then
the existence of that domain

405
00:21:28,069 --> 00:21:29,331
is proven.

406
00:21:29,462 --> 00:21:31,202
>> Remember, we're
talking about wholeness.

407
00:21:31,333 --> 00:21:33,857
We have to have
wholeness in here.

408
00:21:33,988 --> 00:21:35,816
Here, we agree with Bohm.

409
00:21:35,946 --> 00:21:39,689
Bohm pointed out that it was
very important the new feature

410
00:21:39,820 --> 00:21:42,039
that quantum mechanics
introduces is a kind

411
00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:46,174
of wholeness, which means
we cannot analyze things

412
00:21:46,305 --> 00:21:49,308
by cutting them up into little
bits as we do in classical

413
00:21:49,438 --> 00:21:50,961
physics.

414
00:21:51,092 --> 00:21:54,835
But what we can do is, if we
want to try and cut it up,

415
00:21:54,965 --> 00:21:58,142
that the way one bit
goes into the next bit

416
00:21:58,273 --> 00:22:02,451
actually involves
unfolding into the whole

417
00:22:02,582 --> 00:22:07,674
and then enfolding back again
into a particular region.

418
00:22:07,804 --> 00:22:10,981
And so you get this idea
of unfolding, enfolding,

419
00:22:11,112 --> 00:22:12,853
unfolding, enfolding.

420
00:22:12,983 --> 00:22:17,466
So what looks like a continuoustrajectory is actually a series

421
00:22:17,597 --> 00:22:19,381
of foldings and unfoldings.

422
00:22:19,512 --> 00:22:23,211
[music playing]

423
00:22:26,823 --> 00:22:29,435
>> I tried to get some idea ofwhat might be the process which

424
00:22:29,565 --> 00:22:32,481
was implied by the mathematicsof the quantum theory.

425
00:22:32,612 --> 00:22:35,223
And this process is
what I call enfoldment,

426
00:22:35,354 --> 00:22:37,573
that the mathematics
itself suggests

427
00:22:37,704 --> 00:22:40,794
a movement in which
everything in which

428
00:22:40,924 --> 00:22:42,578
any particular
element of space may

429
00:22:42,709 --> 00:22:45,973
have a field which
unfolds into the whole,

430
00:22:46,103 --> 00:22:49,150
and the whole enfolds into it.

431
00:22:53,241 --> 00:22:56,549
[music playing]

432
00:23:02,206 --> 00:23:06,385
>> What David and I have done
is to open up the discussion,

433
00:23:06,515 --> 00:23:09,213
which I find, when I'm
talking to young people,

434
00:23:09,344 --> 00:23:13,174
that they're very interested in
trying to proceed further with

435
00:23:13,304 --> 00:23:15,002
these ideas.

436
00:23:15,132 --> 00:23:18,135
In other words, some
of them have actually

437
00:23:18,266 --> 00:23:19,920
got it, as I put it.

438
00:23:20,050 --> 00:23:23,445
They know in their
basic feelings

439
00:23:23,576 --> 00:23:28,363
that this is an
interesting way to go.

440
00:23:28,494 --> 00:23:31,845
>> The lab at University
College London is at the center

441
00:23:31,975 --> 00:23:35,152
of experiments to prove the
existence of the quantum

442
00:23:35,283 --> 00:23:37,372
potential.

443
00:23:37,503 --> 00:23:40,506
>> If the quantum potential
exists in this way,

444
00:23:40,636 --> 00:23:43,465
then that really is the first
evidence for the profound

445
00:23:43,596 --> 00:23:47,251
interconnectedness of the
physical universe at a very

446
00:23:47,382 --> 00:23:48,557
deep, fundamental level.

447
00:23:51,821 --> 00:23:55,172
That would revolutionize
our scientific worldview.

448
00:23:55,303 --> 00:23:59,568
It would validate those
views of unification,

449
00:23:59,699 --> 00:24:03,354
those views that speak to
the wholism of the universe.

450
00:24:03,485 --> 00:24:07,141
And it truly would
be a confirmation

451
00:24:07,271 --> 00:24:11,885
of a kind of wholism that
religions and spiritual systems

452
00:24:12,015 --> 00:24:16,237
and mystical systems have
intuited for many centuries,

453
00:24:16,367 --> 00:24:19,675
and millennia, even.

454
00:24:19,806 --> 00:24:24,158
>> So what does all this mean
for you, for me, the universe,

455
00:24:24,288 --> 00:24:25,725
and everything?

456
00:24:25,855 --> 00:24:29,076
Bohm suggests that, out of
perceived emptiness, out

457
00:24:29,206 --> 00:24:33,384
of the so-called vacuum state,
particles interact with,

458
00:24:33,515 --> 00:24:38,781
respond to, and are informed by
an information potential which

459
00:24:38,912 --> 00:24:40,435
allows the cosmos to emerge.

460
00:24:44,874 --> 00:24:48,748
>> So it's the informationinforming action of the quantum

461
00:24:48,878 --> 00:24:51,838
potential that makes it possiblefor the physical universe

462
00:24:51,968 --> 00:24:54,449
to be.

463
00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:58,758
>> Everything we know andeverything we will come to know

464
00:24:58,888 --> 00:25:04,764
is already information waitingto unfold into manifest

465
00:25:04,894 --> 00:25:06,243
reality.

466
00:25:06,374 --> 00:25:10,160
It's the implicate waiting
to become explicate.

467
00:25:17,777 --> 00:25:20,606
[music playing]

468
00:25:20,736 --> 00:25:22,869
>> We aren't just
things in space.

469
00:25:22,999 --> 00:25:26,916
We are places of transformation.

470
00:25:27,047 --> 00:25:31,268
And furthermore, our
relationship with others,

471
00:25:31,399 --> 00:25:34,315
but with all
phenomena, is very much

472
00:25:34,445 --> 00:25:39,668
a question of our
relative positions.

473
00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:42,323
And I think that was something
else that really deeply

474
00:25:42,453 --> 00:25:45,935
affected me about Bohm's
work, the participant

475
00:25:46,066 --> 00:25:50,984
nature of the observer
in the emerging of what

476
00:25:51,114 --> 00:25:51,767
we call reality.

477
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,123
The way that Quantum
Cloud works is

478
00:26:00,254 --> 00:26:02,822
that you are thedeterminer of what you see.

479
00:26:02,952 --> 00:26:08,654
This is a mess of
I think elements

480
00:26:08,784 --> 00:26:14,964
that are both particlesand, hopefully, trajectories

481
00:26:15,095 --> 00:26:16,705
that come together.

482
00:26:16,836 --> 00:26:19,447
And depending on where yourposition is, either in a boat

483
00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:22,450
or walking along the
side of the Thames,

484
00:26:22,581 --> 00:26:24,670
and depending on
the time of day,

485
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,935
you will see or not seethe possibility of a body.

486
00:26:33,548 --> 00:26:40,163
Quantum physics invites us to be
participators in that emerging

487
00:26:40,294 --> 00:26:41,382
of a world.

488
00:26:41,512 --> 00:26:43,036
And it has very,
very fundamental,

489
00:26:43,166 --> 00:26:45,865
I think, both
philosophical, spiritual,

490
00:26:45,995 --> 00:26:49,825
and political implications,
which are essentially

491
00:26:49,956 --> 00:26:56,484
that each of us is a co-producer
of a world, that each of us

492
00:26:56,615 --> 00:26:58,878
is a co-producer of
a possible future.

493
00:27:02,795 --> 00:27:07,538
The work of people
like Einstein and Bohm,

494
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:13,588
they are like huge windows
opening in the imagination

495
00:27:13,719 --> 00:27:19,638
to a way of dealing
with life and the things

496
00:27:19,768 --> 00:27:25,513
we encounter within it
freshly and, in a sense,

497
00:27:25,644 --> 00:27:28,124
with the right level
of uncertainty.

498
00:27:32,825 --> 00:27:34,783
>> The present ego
identity is based, I think,

499
00:27:34,914 --> 00:27:37,394
on a wrong mode of
thought, you see,

500
00:27:37,525 --> 00:27:41,834
in which a person identifies
with his thoughts and with his

501
00:27:41,964 --> 00:27:46,708
body and with things, you see,
which means that he's creating

502
00:27:46,839 --> 00:27:51,017
an illusion, that this self
which people feel they have is

503
00:27:51,147 --> 00:27:51,887
only a show.

504
00:27:52,018 --> 00:27:53,410
It's not really there.

505
00:27:53,541 --> 00:27:54,585
But it is such a convincing
show that everybody

506
00:27:54,716 --> 00:27:55,891
acts as if it were
there, and that

507
00:27:56,022 --> 00:27:58,677
gives it an apparent reality.

508
00:27:58,807 --> 00:28:01,375
One of the most essential
points of the scientific spirit

509
00:28:01,505 --> 00:28:05,945
is to acknowledge the fact, or
the interpretation of the fact,

510
00:28:06,075 --> 00:28:07,773
whether you like it
or not, that is not

511
00:28:07,903 --> 00:28:10,166
to engage in wishful thinking
or not to reject something

512
00:28:10,297 --> 00:28:12,255
because you don't like it.

513
00:28:12,386 --> 00:28:16,607
>> Is it possible scientifically
to define this wholeness?

514
00:28:16,738 --> 00:28:18,566
>> Well, not really.

515
00:28:18,697 --> 00:28:21,961
Wholeness is an attitude or
an approach, but it can be,

516
00:28:22,091 --> 00:28:27,227
given a scientific
realization, you see--

517
00:28:27,357 --> 00:28:31,492
>> I think two levels,
interdependency.

518
00:28:31,622 --> 00:28:35,801
Firstly, external things,
different nations,

519
00:28:35,931 --> 00:28:40,196
different country,
environment, and human beings,

520
00:28:40,327 --> 00:28:41,720
other animals.

521
00:28:41,850 --> 00:28:43,591
Everything interdependent.

522
00:28:46,507 --> 00:28:52,165
So now, according
to that reality,

523
00:28:52,295 --> 00:28:59,476
we have to take care about the
whole world and environment.

524
00:29:04,351 --> 00:29:07,180
>> We are internally
related to everything,

525
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:08,834
not externally related.

526
00:29:08,964 --> 00:29:11,619
Consciousness is an internal
relationship to the whole.

527
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:15,101
We take in the whole and
we act toward the whole.

528
00:29:15,231 --> 00:29:18,757
And that, in turn,
whatever we have taken in

529
00:29:18,887 --> 00:29:21,281
determines, basically,
what we are.

530
00:29:21,411 --> 00:29:26,373
>> When we pass through some
sort of forest, no bird,

531
00:29:26,503 --> 00:29:29,202
we feel something missing.

532
00:29:29,332 --> 00:29:32,814
When we're passing through
some birds singing,

533
00:29:32,945 --> 00:29:37,950
some birds flying,
then we feel more full.

534
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,431
So that's now the reality.

535
00:29:41,562 --> 00:29:45,479
So interdependency
on that level.

536
00:29:45,609 --> 00:29:48,787
[music playing]

537
00:29:50,527 --> 00:29:53,487
>> Bohm's model of the implicateand explicate I think is

538
00:29:53,617 --> 00:29:57,317
talking about how the
subject/object split,

539
00:29:57,447 --> 00:30:04,150
duality emerges from a ground,which Lao Tzu would call

540
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:12,767
the Dao, which is non-subject,non-object, but a unity,

541
00:30:12,898 --> 00:30:13,899
a wholeness.

542
00:30:17,554 --> 00:30:21,950
>> Ancient Indians only
used mind or wisdom,

543
00:30:22,081 --> 00:30:24,474
and sometimes meditation.

544
00:30:24,605 --> 00:30:26,128
No instrument.

545
00:30:26,259 --> 00:30:27,695
No modern science.

546
00:30:27,826 --> 00:30:29,871
Use instrument.

547
00:30:30,002 --> 00:30:31,742
>> Science is whatever
people make of it.

548
00:30:31,873 --> 00:30:33,832
You see, science has
changed over the ages,

549
00:30:33,962 --> 00:30:35,964
and it's different now from
a few hundred years ago,

550
00:30:36,095 --> 00:30:37,792
and it could be different again.

551
00:30:37,923 --> 00:30:41,752
Now, there's no intrinsic reasonwhy science must necessarily

552
00:30:41,883 --> 00:30:43,319
be measurement.

553
00:30:43,450 --> 00:30:45,844
This is another
historical development

554
00:30:45,974 --> 00:30:47,933
which has come about over
the past few centuries.

555
00:30:48,063 --> 00:30:50,979
It's entirely contingent,
and not absolutely necessary.

556
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:54,069
>> So far, we know this much.

557
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,509
Still limitless the reality we
have to sort of investigate.

558
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:07,430
So David Bohm, I think, really
something like open our mind.

559
00:31:07,561 --> 00:31:08,736
So grateful.

560
00:31:08,867 --> 00:31:11,043
[music playing]

561
00:31:12,914 --> 00:31:16,178
>> In all the areas that he
worked in, he was constantly

562
00:31:16,309 --> 00:31:19,399
pushing, pushing, pushing.

563
00:31:19,529 --> 00:31:23,185
In physics, in dialogue,
in consciousness.

564
00:31:25,927 --> 00:31:28,364
>> He became a
scientist, I believe,

565
00:31:28,495 --> 00:31:31,193
in order to benefit humanity.

566
00:31:31,324 --> 00:31:33,717
I think his mission
was always leading up

567
00:31:33,848 --> 00:31:36,546
to a transformation
for human society,

568
00:31:36,677 --> 00:31:40,594
overcoming the fragmentation
that we experience

569
00:31:40,724 --> 00:31:44,076
towards having the experience
of a new interconnectedness

570
00:31:44,206 --> 00:31:47,644
among us all to solve
problems together,

571
00:31:47,775 --> 00:31:50,734
overcoming the divisions.

572
00:31:50,865 --> 00:31:54,390
So in that sense, he
represented a truly holistic,

573
00:31:54,521 --> 00:31:57,306
integrated vision
of a human being.

574
00:31:57,437 --> 00:31:59,134
And I think as that,
he can serve as a model

575
00:31:59,265 --> 00:32:02,137
for future generations.

576
00:32:02,268 --> 00:32:04,096
>> It's a revolution.

577
00:32:04,226 --> 00:32:10,015
It has radical implication
about how we live our life,

578
00:32:10,145 --> 00:32:13,061
how we interact
with the Earth, how

579
00:32:13,192 --> 00:32:15,150
we interact with each other.

580
00:32:15,281 --> 00:32:18,240
And that revolution
is unfinished.

581
00:32:18,371 --> 00:32:21,591
[music playing]

582
00:32:21,722 --> 00:32:25,769
>> If we aspire to go beyond ourpresent state of consciousness,

583
00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:29,295
if we truly want to be happier,to love and know ourselves

584
00:32:29,425 --> 00:32:32,472
better, to regain
meaning and wholeness,

585
00:32:32,602 --> 00:32:36,345
the old disciplines onlyserve to deepen the illusion

586
00:32:36,476 --> 00:32:38,434
of manifest reality.

587
00:32:38,565 --> 00:32:40,915
We must look beyond
the veil of form

588
00:32:41,046 --> 00:32:45,920
to a realization of oneness
present in you, in me,

589
00:32:46,051 --> 00:32:48,488
the universe, and everything.

590
00:32:48,618 --> 00:32:50,925
When you grasp,
this it will put you

591
00:32:51,056 --> 00:32:56,017
on the threshold of what is
real and your place in reality.

592
00:32:56,148 --> 00:33:00,152
Reality is wholeness,
undivided wholeness.

593
00:33:00,282 --> 00:33:04,243
And this fact has yet to
dawn on billions of people.

594
00:33:04,373 --> 00:33:07,898
[music playing]