1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:07,083 --> 00:00:08,750 -MAN: Dear son... -WOMAN: Daughter... 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:09,041 --> 00:00:09,834 Dear son... 5 00:00:10,125 --> 00:00:11,750 MAHERSHALA ALI: There was before you... 6 00:00:12,291 --> 00:00:13,834 and then there was after. 7 00:00:14,792 --> 00:00:19,583 WOMAN 2: It was only after you that I understood this love. 8 00:00:20,041 --> 00:00:22,834 ALI: And I knew then that I must survive 9 00:00:22,917 --> 00:00:25,792 for something more than survival's sake. 10 00:00:27,333 --> 00:00:28,709 I must survive for you. 11 00:00:28,792 --> 00:00:29,917 -GROUP: You. -You. 12 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,709 ♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ 13 00:00:53,083 --> 00:00:55,125 The Black artist in America has had to put up 14 00:00:55,208 --> 00:00:56,542 with a great deal over the years. 15 00:00:56,625 --> 00:00:59,458 It's not been simply a matter of mastering the art 16 00:00:59,542 --> 00:01:01,208 while surviving as a person. 17 00:01:01,291 --> 00:01:03,959 This has been the experience of most white artists, of course. 18 00:01:04,041 --> 00:01:05,875 For the Black artist, it has also been the matter 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,166 of being taken seriously as an artist and as an individual. 20 00:01:10,250 --> 00:01:13,000 Last week, a major historical survey of Black-- 21 00:01:13,083 --> 00:01:14,250 Art by Blacks in America 22 00:01:14,333 --> 00:01:16,834 called Two Centuries of Black American Art, 23 00:01:16,917 --> 00:01:19,250 opened at the Brooklyn Museum in New York. 24 00:01:19,333 --> 00:01:20,917 David Driskell, a professor of art 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,750 at the University of Maryland and formerly chairman 26 00:01:22,834 --> 00:01:24,792 of the art department at Fisk University in Nashville, 27 00:01:24,875 --> 00:01:26,709 has organized this show. 28 00:01:26,792 --> 00:01:28,000 Incidentally, it opened 29 00:01:28,083 --> 00:01:31,000 last year in Los Angeles as a bicentennial exhibition, 30 00:01:31,083 --> 00:01:32,667 and it drew overflow crowds. 31 00:01:32,750 --> 00:01:37,834 1976, um, doesn't seem like that long ago. 32 00:01:37,917 --> 00:01:39,125 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 33 00:01:39,208 --> 00:01:40,750 VALERIE CASSEL OLIVER: But it was remarkable 34 00:01:40,834 --> 00:01:44,417 that David Driskell could mount an exhibition 35 00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:47,792 called Two Centuries of Black American Art. 36 00:01:47,875 --> 00:01:53,000 Because up until that point, you really do not have 37 00:01:53,083 --> 00:01:58,500 an exhibition which is authored by a Black curator 38 00:01:58,583 --> 00:02:01,208 which talks about the history... 39 00:02:02,625 --> 00:02:05,250 and the contemporary manifestations 40 00:02:05,333 --> 00:02:08,667 of Black art production in the visual arts. 41 00:02:09,333 --> 00:02:11,125 It just didn't exist. 42 00:02:11,208 --> 00:02:12,792 For the most part, 43 00:02:12,875 --> 00:02:15,917 the general public was not that aware 44 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,375 of the contributions that African American artists 45 00:02:18,458 --> 00:02:24,041 had made to American culture in general in the 19th 46 00:02:24,125 --> 00:02:26,375 or even the 20th century. 47 00:02:26,458 --> 00:02:28,959 It was a surprise to most people when you come up 48 00:02:29,041 --> 00:02:32,291 with a list of 50 to 100 Black artists 49 00:02:32,375 --> 00:02:34,709 who had been working all the time. 50 00:02:34,792 --> 00:02:37,500 They say, "Well, we've never heard of these artists." 51 00:02:37,583 --> 00:02:38,667 Well, of course not. 52 00:02:38,750 --> 00:02:41,208 There's no publication, there's no exhibition. 53 00:02:42,250 --> 00:02:43,959 MAURICE BERGER: What David did was he said, 54 00:02:44,041 --> 00:02:45,583 "This is Black art." 55 00:02:46,834 --> 00:02:50,458 It matters. And it's been going on for 200 years. 56 00:02:51,083 --> 00:02:52,500 Deal with it. 57 00:02:52,583 --> 00:02:57,250 ♪ (RHYTHMIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 58 00:03:12,917 --> 00:03:14,583 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪ 59 00:03:17,083 --> 00:03:19,417 Mr. Driskell, you take, uh, issue with the fact 60 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:22,333 that it has been called an exhibition of Black art, 61 00:03:22,417 --> 00:03:24,125 or we have been describing it this morning 62 00:03:24,208 --> 00:03:25,500 as the history of Black art. 63 00:03:25,583 --> 00:03:28,583 Why do you not think of that as being Black art, so to speak? 64 00:03:28,667 --> 00:03:31,041 Well, first of all, when one says Black art, 65 00:03:31,125 --> 00:03:33,834 it more or less isolates the Black artist 66 00:03:33,917 --> 00:03:35,250 from the mainstream of American art. 67 00:03:35,333 --> 00:03:37,875 And even though this has happened throughout the years, 68 00:03:37,959 --> 00:03:41,041 but we have critical acclaim, historical analysis, et cetera, 69 00:03:41,125 --> 00:03:44,500 the Black artist has not attempted to set himself apart. 70 00:03:44,583 --> 00:03:47,375 He has tried to be part and parcel of the mainstream. 71 00:03:47,458 --> 00:03:49,208 But aren't you setting them apart, in effect, 72 00:03:49,291 --> 00:03:51,542 by putting the show together with just Black artists? 73 00:03:51,625 --> 00:03:54,208 Only because he has not had an audience 74 00:03:54,291 --> 00:03:57,417 with a-- a majority culture for the most part. 75 00:03:57,500 --> 00:04:00,792 And because, uh, an exhibition of this nature 76 00:04:00,875 --> 00:04:02,375 gets his work before the public. 77 00:04:02,458 --> 00:04:05,667 Had this exhibition not been organized, many of the artists 78 00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:08,500 who were shown here never would have been seen. 79 00:04:08,583 --> 00:04:10,166 ♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 80 00:04:10,250 --> 00:04:11,250 MAURICE: The show opens 81 00:04:11,333 --> 00:04:14,250 in the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. 82 00:04:14,333 --> 00:04:17,208 There was a lot of resistance, even at that museum. 83 00:04:17,291 --> 00:04:18,417 There were some who said, 84 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:21,166 "No. We shouldn't be even involved with this." 85 00:04:21,250 --> 00:04:24,959 And yet when push came to shove, the board and the curators 86 00:04:25,041 --> 00:04:28,250 agreed that Two Centuries of African American Art 87 00:04:28,333 --> 00:04:29,583 would be a good idea. 88 00:04:29,667 --> 00:04:31,750 DAVID DRISKELL: I guess it was a teaching moment for them, 89 00:04:31,834 --> 00:04:36,667 at the same time that I had a chance to really say, 90 00:04:36,750 --> 00:04:39,000 "This is something that ought to be done 91 00:04:39,083 --> 00:04:41,583 because the American canon is not complete without it." 92 00:04:41,667 --> 00:04:44,291 When you understand how difficult that was, 93 00:04:44,375 --> 00:04:47,542 what a triumph it was that it was actually done, 94 00:04:47,625 --> 00:04:49,667 then you start to understand 95 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:52,458 the enormous struggle and journey 96 00:04:52,542 --> 00:04:56,291 that this country has been on to feature and to display 97 00:04:56,375 --> 00:04:58,667 and to honor the work of Black artists. 98 00:04:58,750 --> 00:05:01,792 What Driskell did is he demonstrated, 99 00:05:01,875 --> 00:05:04,500 absolutely, that there was a lineage, 100 00:05:04,583 --> 00:05:05,959 there was a history. 101 00:05:06,041 --> 00:05:08,417 And that history was filled not only with painting 102 00:05:08,500 --> 00:05:11,291 and sculpture, but also, the decorative arts. 103 00:05:11,375 --> 00:05:15,208 Architecture, drawings. I mean, it-- it-- it really gave us 104 00:05:15,291 --> 00:05:20,959 this enormous sense of the legacy of African Americans. 105 00:05:21,041 --> 00:05:23,208 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 106 00:05:23,291 --> 00:05:26,583 I would have been 21 years old in '76. 107 00:05:26,667 --> 00:05:28,291 Yeah. And I saw that show. 108 00:05:28,375 --> 00:05:31,083 The scope of the show, uh, the amount of work 109 00:05:31,166 --> 00:05:32,792 that was available, there was work in that show 110 00:05:32,875 --> 00:05:35,000 that you had only seen in books before. 111 00:05:35,083 --> 00:05:36,417 And so, for an artist, 112 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:39,000 I mean, always seeing the work in person, 113 00:05:39,083 --> 00:05:41,208 seeing the real thing matters a lot. 114 00:05:41,291 --> 00:05:44,542 I was there. I remember the electricity. 115 00:05:44,625 --> 00:05:46,583 I remember the fact that it was packed. 116 00:05:46,667 --> 00:05:49,291 There were lines down Wilshire Boulevard. 117 00:05:49,375 --> 00:05:51,333 DAVID: People from all over coming 118 00:05:51,417 --> 00:05:54,667 for that opening and it-- it was just spectacular. 119 00:05:54,750 --> 00:05:56,000 After the count was taken 120 00:05:56,083 --> 00:05:58,667 and after that exhibition closed there 121 00:05:58,750 --> 00:06:02,333 and went to The High Museum in Atlanta the next year, 122 00:06:02,417 --> 00:06:06,208 they found out that more people attended that exhibition 123 00:06:06,291 --> 00:06:09,250 than any other exhibition... 124 00:06:10,083 --> 00:06:12,166 originated in the United States. 125 00:06:12,250 --> 00:06:15,375 So the show opens and it travels to Dallas, 126 00:06:15,458 --> 00:06:16,583 it travels to Chicago, 127 00:06:16,667 --> 00:06:18,709 it travels finally to the Brooklyn Museum. 128 00:06:18,792 --> 00:06:20,041 And it sends a message. 129 00:06:20,125 --> 00:06:23,542 And what it says is that these are the manifestations 130 00:06:23,625 --> 00:06:27,709 of African American artistic brilliance over two centuries. 131 00:06:27,792 --> 00:06:30,125 Artists who were still practicing, 132 00:06:30,208 --> 00:06:31,709 who were living, 133 00:06:31,792 --> 00:06:37,208 Richard Mayhew, Loïs Jones, Selma Burke, Richmond Barthé, 134 00:06:37,291 --> 00:06:42,041 Charles White, Romare Bearden, Jacob Lawrence, 135 00:06:42,125 --> 00:06:44,667 when they saw all of their work together, 136 00:06:44,750 --> 00:06:46,125 it was like a homecoming. 137 00:06:46,208 --> 00:06:49,542 I didn't attend the show, I was too young. 138 00:06:49,625 --> 00:06:51,583 Maybe I did, I wouldn't remember. 139 00:06:51,667 --> 00:06:53,250 But I remember the book. 140 00:06:53,333 --> 00:06:54,875 The book was in my home. 141 00:06:54,959 --> 00:06:56,667 It was in my sister's bedroom. 142 00:06:56,750 --> 00:06:58,250 So these were images that I saw 143 00:06:58,333 --> 00:07:00,208 before I could really say the names. 144 00:07:00,291 --> 00:07:03,375 They were just sort of imprinted, um, in me. 145 00:07:03,458 --> 00:07:06,750 And there was definitely a sense of communication 146 00:07:06,834 --> 00:07:09,041 and education I was getting from those images. 147 00:07:09,125 --> 00:07:10,750 Because you have to remember, at that time, 148 00:07:10,834 --> 00:07:14,208 there were very few positive images of Black folks 149 00:07:14,291 --> 00:07:16,917 that were widely available. 150 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,041 The artists of that time, 151 00:07:18,125 --> 00:07:20,125 not only were presenting Black people, 152 00:07:20,208 --> 00:07:22,917 they were presenting nuance, idiosyncratic, 153 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,333 abstract, beautiful imagery. 154 00:07:25,417 --> 00:07:27,375 JORDAN CASTEEL: I just feel a sense of belonging 155 00:07:27,458 --> 00:07:28,750 when I look at this book. 156 00:07:28,834 --> 00:07:33,542 My community of Black American artists that come before me 157 00:07:33,625 --> 00:07:36,458 have created the ground for me to build on. 158 00:07:36,542 --> 00:07:39,125 And that's a beautiful thing. That's what this book 159 00:07:39,208 --> 00:07:42,583 and this exhibition and what David Driskell has done, 160 00:07:42,667 --> 00:07:44,959 um, represents for me. 161 00:07:45,041 --> 00:07:48,375 I grew up in a home that had the work of Charles White... 162 00:07:49,417 --> 00:07:50,625 Hale Woodruff... 163 00:07:50,709 --> 00:07:51,792 ♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 164 00:07:51,875 --> 00:07:56,083 JORDAN: ...Faith Ringgold, Elizabeth Catlett. 165 00:07:56,166 --> 00:08:00,792 Those were works that were around my, um, home, 166 00:08:00,875 --> 00:08:05,125 so I felt they belonged to me. I felt ownership of those images 167 00:08:05,208 --> 00:08:09,166 because they were a part of my intimate and immediate space. 168 00:08:09,917 --> 00:08:12,834 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 169 00:08:16,375 --> 00:08:18,917 KERRY JAMES MARSHALL: When I was in junior high school, 170 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,834 I got a summer scholarship to take a drawing class 171 00:08:22,917 --> 00:08:24,542 at the Otis Art Institute. 172 00:08:25,750 --> 00:08:28,166 The, uh, drawing teacher had a book 173 00:08:28,250 --> 00:08:29,750 that he put on the opaque projector, 174 00:08:29,834 --> 00:08:32,625 it was Images of Dignity: The Drawings of Charles White. 175 00:08:32,709 --> 00:08:34,583 Because prior to that, you know, 176 00:08:34,667 --> 00:08:36,500 almost all of the artists I had encountered 177 00:08:36,583 --> 00:08:38,375 in our history books were European. 178 00:08:38,458 --> 00:08:40,792 When I was 15, the first oil painting I made 179 00:08:40,875 --> 00:08:43,333 was a painting-- an original painting that I made 180 00:08:43,417 --> 00:08:46,917 in the style of Charles White, so that I could understand 181 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,959 exactly what it was he was trying to do, 182 00:08:50,041 --> 00:08:53,667 how he used form, how he used color and tone, 183 00:08:53,750 --> 00:08:55,417 and to try to make an original work 184 00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:57,667 that did some of the same kinds of things that he did 185 00:08:57,750 --> 00:08:59,667 without copying the work that he had made. 186 00:08:59,750 --> 00:09:02,041 You train yourself to a certain way of seeing form 187 00:09:02,125 --> 00:09:03,208 and understanding form 188 00:09:03,291 --> 00:09:04,583 by copying what somebody else did. 189 00:09:04,667 --> 00:09:06,709 And at another point, you break free from that, 190 00:09:06,792 --> 00:09:08,458 because then you can do your own thing. 191 00:09:08,542 --> 00:09:09,834 When I met Charles White, 192 00:09:09,917 --> 00:09:12,000 one of the things that stuck with me that he said was that, 193 00:09:12,083 --> 00:09:15,333 "Whenever you make work, it ought to be about something, 194 00:09:15,417 --> 00:09:18,125 and it ought to be about something that mattered." 195 00:09:18,208 --> 00:09:19,709 Because all of the work I was doing 196 00:09:19,792 --> 00:09:22,709 had some relationship to the history of art. 197 00:09:22,792 --> 00:09:24,291 It seemed to make a lot of sense 198 00:09:24,375 --> 00:09:26,709 that it also should have a lot in rel-- a lot to do 199 00:09:26,792 --> 00:09:28,542 with the history of Black people. 200 00:09:28,625 --> 00:09:31,625 So that's what I set myself to do. 201 00:09:31,709 --> 00:09:34,166 To make pictures that had historical relevance 202 00:09:34,250 --> 00:09:36,417 in terms of the story, the narratives they told, 203 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:38,041 but also have historical relevance 204 00:09:38,125 --> 00:09:39,750 because they had a relationship to the way 205 00:09:39,834 --> 00:09:42,333 in which the narrative of painting 206 00:09:42,417 --> 00:09:45,875 as an activity sort of developed over time. 207 00:09:45,959 --> 00:09:48,750 I think that Kerry James Marshall has 208 00:09:48,834 --> 00:09:51,291 all but redefined the whole concept 209 00:09:51,375 --> 00:09:53,709 of what Black art is about. 210 00:09:53,792 --> 00:09:55,834 I would say he had the audacity... 211 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,583 to concentrate on just the Black subject 212 00:10:00,667 --> 00:10:02,750 and not bring all these other elements in. 213 00:10:02,834 --> 00:10:05,792 And I think it's fascinating, not only from the point of view 214 00:10:05,875 --> 00:10:10,083 of what Black people feel about themselves, 215 00:10:10,166 --> 00:10:12,333 but it's intriguing to whites as well. 216 00:10:15,709 --> 00:10:17,166 KERRY: In the history of painting 217 00:10:17,250 --> 00:10:21,333 that we are introduced to... 218 00:10:21,417 --> 00:10:26,458 you don't find many images of Black people in pictures. 219 00:10:26,542 --> 00:10:28,542 You certainly don't see a lot of images 220 00:10:28,625 --> 00:10:30,959 of Black people making pictures. 221 00:10:31,041 --> 00:10:33,041 At the end of the 19th century, 222 00:10:33,125 --> 00:10:34,875 and in the beginning of the 20th century, 223 00:10:34,959 --> 00:10:37,375 this notion that representation 224 00:10:37,458 --> 00:10:42,834 was a useless artifact of old-fashioned ideas 225 00:10:42,917 --> 00:10:44,917 about what it meant to make art 226 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,792 had sort of set in, and people started thinking 227 00:10:47,875 --> 00:10:52,750 that abstract painting is a more advanced form of painting 228 00:10:52,834 --> 00:10:54,625 than representational painting. 229 00:10:54,709 --> 00:10:57,375 And that's what abstraction sort of says, in a way, 230 00:10:57,458 --> 00:11:00,792 that representing yourself is no longer a viable approach. 231 00:11:00,875 --> 00:11:02,375 But I don't look at it that way. 232 00:11:02,458 --> 00:11:04,667 There's work that needs to be done 233 00:11:04,750 --> 00:11:09,834 using the Black figure in painting as a meaningful part 234 00:11:09,917 --> 00:11:11,792 of the historical narrative. 235 00:11:13,333 --> 00:11:15,500 Kerry James Marshall was a student of mine. 236 00:11:15,583 --> 00:11:17,875 He made a very good sketchbook in my class. 237 00:11:17,959 --> 00:11:19,166 And he was a good artist. 238 00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:21,667 One of the exercises she had us do in that class 239 00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:23,667 was to make a collage. We did a series of collages. 240 00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:25,875 You had to make a collage and then bring that collage back 241 00:11:25,959 --> 00:11:28,250 again the next week and have it changed. 242 00:11:28,333 --> 00:11:30,083 And then to bring it again and changed again. 243 00:11:30,166 --> 00:11:31,792 And then to bring it again and changed again. 244 00:11:31,875 --> 00:11:34,375 So that you never really became too attached 245 00:11:34,458 --> 00:11:37,667 to not make everything you do seem so precious 246 00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:40,500 that it can't be transformed, that it can't be modified, 247 00:11:40,583 --> 00:11:42,083 or it can't be improved. 248 00:11:42,166 --> 00:11:48,208 I was very interested in, uh, non-Western philosophies 249 00:11:48,291 --> 00:11:52,583 and the spiritualism and the images that they use. 250 00:11:52,667 --> 00:11:55,875 KERRY: I had seen, uh, Black Girl's Window before. 251 00:11:55,959 --> 00:11:58,834 It was certainly an image that was in the back of my mind. 252 00:11:58,917 --> 00:12:00,750 When I looked back at that work, 253 00:12:00,834 --> 00:12:04,375 it certainly has a relationship to a painting I did in 1980 254 00:12:04,458 --> 00:12:06,250 that was really transformative for me 255 00:12:06,333 --> 00:12:07,458 and it really sort of set me 256 00:12:07,542 --> 00:12:09,667 on the path to doing the work that I'm doing now. 257 00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:11,291 And I made a painting called 258 00:12:11,375 --> 00:12:14,250 A Portrait of the Artist as a Shadow of His Former Self. 259 00:12:14,333 --> 00:12:17,750 Which is a Black figure against a black ground. 260 00:12:17,834 --> 00:12:21,917 And it was the first time I had used this simplified, 261 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,375 kind of reductive representation of a Black figure. 262 00:12:25,458 --> 00:12:28,166 And so that painting was the-- the one that established 263 00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:31,625 the Black figure as a mode of operating for me. 264 00:12:31,709 --> 00:12:36,125 One of the things I was trying to do was to embody in a picture 265 00:12:36,208 --> 00:12:38,750 the concept that Ralph Ellison had laid out 266 00:12:38,834 --> 00:12:40,333 in his novel, Invisible Man. 267 00:12:40,417 --> 00:12:42,709 He describes the condition of invisibility 268 00:12:42,792 --> 00:12:45,750 as it relates to Black people in America. 269 00:12:45,834 --> 00:12:49,500 This condition of being seen and not seen simultaneously. 270 00:12:49,583 --> 00:12:51,542 And that's what I think a Black figure 271 00:12:51,625 --> 00:12:53,375 against the black ground, 272 00:12:53,458 --> 00:12:56,083 where if you change the color temperature of the black, 273 00:12:56,166 --> 00:12:59,542 it creates enough separation so that you can alternately 274 00:12:59,625 --> 00:13:02,166 see and then sometimes not see 275 00:13:02,250 --> 00:13:04,000 the figure that's present there. 276 00:13:05,208 --> 00:13:09,625 I started creating the sense of volume in those figures 277 00:13:09,709 --> 00:13:12,500 by using the grayscale. 278 00:13:12,583 --> 00:13:15,000 So, uh-- You take black, you add white to it, 279 00:13:15,083 --> 00:13:16,166 you can create a grayscale, 280 00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:18,125 and then you can actually start doing modelling, 281 00:13:18,208 --> 00:13:20,000 you know, with-- with values. 282 00:13:20,083 --> 00:13:21,709 Black is not the absence of color, 283 00:13:21,792 --> 00:13:23,792 black is particular kinds of color. 284 00:13:23,875 --> 00:13:26,542 And so if I went to the paint store, as I did, 285 00:13:26,625 --> 00:13:29,125 and I bought black paint, 286 00:13:29,208 --> 00:13:32,000 I could see I could buy three different variations 287 00:13:32,083 --> 00:13:33,375 of black paint. 288 00:13:33,458 --> 00:13:36,959 So I could buy an ivory black, I could buy a carbon black, 289 00:13:37,041 --> 00:13:39,166 and I could buy an iron oxide black, 290 00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:41,083 or something that's called Mars black. 291 00:13:41,166 --> 00:13:42,875 And if you look at each one of those colors, 292 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:44,500 they are not the same thing. 293 00:13:44,583 --> 00:13:47,291 This is the full range of the black flesh tones. 294 00:13:47,375 --> 00:13:48,458 There are seven. 295 00:13:48,542 --> 00:13:51,959 Every one of these tones is on those-- the later figures. 296 00:13:52,041 --> 00:13:54,500 Every one of these colors is on there. 297 00:13:54,583 --> 00:13:56,500 But, I mean, they all look the same, 298 00:13:56,583 --> 00:13:57,667 but when you stack them on top 299 00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:00,166 of each other, then the-- the variations 300 00:14:00,250 --> 00:14:01,959 start to become more pronounced. 301 00:14:02,041 --> 00:14:05,000 So I can end up with six, seven, eight or nine 302 00:14:05,083 --> 00:14:07,542 different colors that are all made from black. 303 00:14:08,583 --> 00:14:09,834 So that means I have a palette 304 00:14:09,917 --> 00:14:12,500 that's as complex and as broad and as ranged 305 00:14:12,583 --> 00:14:15,834 as any other color that's on the spectrum. 306 00:14:15,917 --> 00:14:18,500 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 307 00:14:18,583 --> 00:14:22,000 KERRY: I think, in general, the paintings had been really well received. 308 00:14:22,083 --> 00:14:25,000 But there's a lingering controversy around 309 00:14:25,083 --> 00:14:27,583 the sort of unequivocally Black, 310 00:14:27,667 --> 00:14:31,166 kind of emphatically Black figures. 311 00:14:31,250 --> 00:14:33,083 I wouldn't have done them if I didn't feel it. 312 00:14:33,166 --> 00:14:38,208 But I tend to think having that extreme, uh, color, 313 00:14:38,291 --> 00:14:40,959 that kind of black, is-- is amazingly beautiful. 314 00:14:43,417 --> 00:14:46,166 There's a lot of overlap in terms of structure 315 00:14:46,250 --> 00:14:48,500 between the way artists handle color 316 00:14:48,583 --> 00:14:50,000 and the way musicians handle color 317 00:14:50,083 --> 00:14:51,709 and note and tone and all this. 318 00:14:51,792 --> 00:14:53,917 Because we use the same kind of language, basically. 319 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,458 It's tone, it's texture, it's color. It's intensity. 320 00:14:57,542 --> 00:15:00,750 And it's-- it's all basically the same sort of structural language. 321 00:15:00,834 --> 00:15:04,000 I found my own sound. I found my own tone. 322 00:15:06,125 --> 00:15:11,417 Very often, something that we wouldn't even consider major, 323 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:14,041 like a family picnic, or the barbershop, 324 00:15:14,125 --> 00:15:15,875 how we live, what we do. 325 00:15:15,959 --> 00:15:20,166 He kind of popularized the ordinary. 326 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:24,542 And in so doing, he made it his own personal statement. 327 00:15:24,625 --> 00:15:27,458 We see ourselves in so many different ways. 328 00:15:27,542 --> 00:15:30,959 'Cause he's looking at every aspect of our being. 329 00:15:31,041 --> 00:15:33,041 ♪ (QUIET JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 330 00:15:33,125 --> 00:15:35,291 VALERIE: The first major exhibition 331 00:15:35,375 --> 00:15:38,834 that focuses on Black art or cultural production, 332 00:15:38,917 --> 00:15:41,917 before Two Centuries of Black American Art 333 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,834 is Harlem on My Mind by The Met in 1968. 334 00:15:45,917 --> 00:15:51,166 Which received a huge backlash from the community itself. 335 00:15:51,250 --> 00:15:55,250 Why? It was not authored by anyone who looked like 336 00:15:55,333 --> 00:15:57,542 the subjects of that exhibition. 337 00:15:57,625 --> 00:16:01,750 It framed it almost in an anthropological framework, 338 00:16:01,834 --> 00:16:05,375 which was the sights and sounds of Harlem 339 00:16:05,458 --> 00:16:08,291 from the 1900s to 1968. 340 00:16:08,375 --> 00:16:10,417 It did not take into account 341 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:14,792 the wealth of cultural and artistic production emerging. 342 00:16:14,875 --> 00:16:17,875 That was, uh, shocking. 343 00:16:17,959 --> 00:16:21,709 For all of the desires of the curators, 344 00:16:21,792 --> 00:16:23,750 they are missing the mark. 345 00:16:25,959 --> 00:16:28,208 REPORTER: Mr. Hoving, what do you think of the exhibit? 346 00:16:28,291 --> 00:16:30,750 -Well, I personally like it. -REPORTER: Why? 347 00:16:30,834 --> 00:16:34,250 I like it because I think it is true. 348 00:16:34,333 --> 00:16:36,583 I think it is an honest portrayal 349 00:16:36,667 --> 00:16:39,125 of a very difficult subject, which is millions of people 350 00:16:39,208 --> 00:16:42,667 living in one area, a large area of New York City, 351 00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:45,125 over a period of about 70 years. 352 00:16:45,208 --> 00:16:49,166 REPORTER: Some people, especially some Harlem citizens 353 00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:51,041 have criticized the exhibition 354 00:16:51,125 --> 00:16:54,917 and said it's not art, it's all photography. 355 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,333 They said that Harlem people, Harlem-born people, 356 00:16:59,417 --> 00:17:01,500 were not intimately involved. 357 00:17:01,583 --> 00:17:03,375 They said it's too slick, 358 00:17:04,083 --> 00:17:06,333 and that it lacks sensitivity. 359 00:17:06,417 --> 00:17:08,125 Well, I know some people have said that. 360 00:17:08,208 --> 00:17:10,250 On the other hand, uh, there have been others, 361 00:17:10,333 --> 00:17:11,875 that have been on the advisory committee 362 00:17:11,959 --> 00:17:14,291 and working for many, many months 363 00:17:14,375 --> 00:17:17,291 who said that they thought it was, uh, moving, 364 00:17:17,375 --> 00:17:18,709 and they thought it was, uh, 365 00:17:18,792 --> 00:17:20,000 powerful where it should be powerful 366 00:17:20,083 --> 00:17:23,542 and, uh, soft and lyrical where it should be. 367 00:17:23,625 --> 00:17:27,375 Again, this is, uh, these diametrically opposed opinions. 368 00:17:27,458 --> 00:17:28,875 We're going to get a lot of that. 369 00:17:28,959 --> 00:17:30,792 And, uh, I think that's good. 370 00:17:30,875 --> 00:17:36,750 Harlem as a kind of fanciful, mystical magical subject 371 00:17:36,834 --> 00:17:40,000 was fine for The Metropolitan Museum of Art. 372 00:17:40,083 --> 00:17:42,583 But the artists who were doing the work, 373 00:17:42,667 --> 00:17:43,875 who were walking the walk, 374 00:17:43,959 --> 00:17:46,083 were somehow irrelevant to the story. 375 00:17:46,166 --> 00:17:47,792 MARY SCHMIDT CAMPBELL: With one exception. 376 00:17:47,875 --> 00:17:51,166 And that exception is that they included the photographs 377 00:17:51,250 --> 00:17:53,041 of James Van Der Zee. 378 00:17:53,125 --> 00:17:57,709 The fact that they included him turned out to be a revelation. 379 00:17:57,792 --> 00:18:02,583 Because Van Der Zee's work documented much of the cultural 380 00:18:02,667 --> 00:18:04,375 day-to-day life of Harlem. 381 00:18:04,458 --> 00:18:08,083 The rituals and ceremonies of people who lived there. 382 00:18:08,166 --> 00:18:09,834 And his name became a name we all knew, 383 00:18:09,917 --> 00:18:13,291 and the content of what he did became known to people. 384 00:18:14,041 --> 00:18:15,250 DAVID: My reaction was that 385 00:18:15,333 --> 00:18:18,750 if The Metropolitan Museum wanted to really 386 00:18:18,834 --> 00:18:21,417 give a real depiction of what Black artists 387 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:23,417 had been doing in the period 388 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:25,625 of the Harlem Renaissance and thereafter, 389 00:18:25,709 --> 00:18:29,125 why not deal with the art? 390 00:18:29,208 --> 00:18:32,417 Doing The Two Centuries gave me the chance 391 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:36,458 to, uh, bridge the gap to a certain extent 392 00:18:36,875 --> 00:18:38,083 between what, 393 00:18:38,166 --> 00:18:42,750 uh, I thought The Met should have been doing from day one. 394 00:18:42,834 --> 00:18:44,500 MARY: People like Romare Bearden, 395 00:18:44,583 --> 00:18:46,792 Benny Andrews, were out protesting, 396 00:18:46,875 --> 00:18:49,125 as well as people from the community, 397 00:18:49,208 --> 00:18:52,208 because it was not reflective of Harlem. 398 00:18:53,583 --> 00:18:57,333 MAURICE: Why are museums so resistant 399 00:18:57,417 --> 00:19:00,166 to opening their doors to artists of color 400 00:19:00,250 --> 00:19:02,375 and particularly African Americans artists? 401 00:19:02,458 --> 00:19:04,291 For the first time, perhaps ever, 402 00:19:04,375 --> 00:19:06,709 I think people really start to think of their museums 403 00:19:06,792 --> 00:19:08,625 as being their museums, as belonging to them 404 00:19:08,709 --> 00:19:10,208 in a different way. 405 00:19:10,291 --> 00:19:14,667 Faith Ringgold was a prime agitator in this time period. 406 00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:16,875 She was protesting at The Whitney, 407 00:19:16,959 --> 00:19:19,917 protesting at The Met, protesting all around the city. 408 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,834 FAITH RINGGOLD: We are Black. But we are equals. 409 00:19:22,917 --> 00:19:27,542 I believe thoroughly and completely in freedom of speech. 410 00:19:28,625 --> 00:19:30,792 And no one's going to change that. 411 00:19:30,875 --> 00:19:32,959 I'll just stay out till I get in. 412 00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:36,750 ♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 413 00:19:38,542 --> 00:19:41,250 MARY: I met Faith Ringgold, 414 00:19:41,333 --> 00:19:44,291 when I was in graduate school at Syracuse. 415 00:19:45,041 --> 00:19:46,333 And what I heard was this, 416 00:19:46,417 --> 00:19:48,500 that she had gone to The Studio Museum in Harlem 417 00:19:48,583 --> 00:19:50,000 and tried to get a show. 418 00:19:50,083 --> 00:19:55,125 And, um, Studio Museum did not give her a show. 419 00:19:55,792 --> 00:19:57,250 Um, for whatever reason. 420 00:19:57,333 --> 00:19:59,417 They weren't a lot of women back in those days 421 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:03,583 who were getting, um, solo exhibitions at the museum. 422 00:20:03,667 --> 00:20:06,500 And she had all these big paintings 423 00:20:06,583 --> 00:20:09,542 she was-- couldn't get shown, uh, in New York. 424 00:20:09,625 --> 00:20:13,166 And so she started doing these, uh, soft sculptures. 425 00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:16,041 And she would take the soft sculptures 426 00:20:16,125 --> 00:20:19,041 and she would lecture on women artists. 427 00:20:19,125 --> 00:20:22,291 Not only Black women artists, but on women artists in general. 428 00:20:22,375 --> 00:20:25,000 Because she understood that it wasn't just an issue 429 00:20:25,083 --> 00:20:26,166 about Black artists, 430 00:20:26,250 --> 00:20:28,417 it was an issue of gender as-- as well as race. 431 00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:31,166 I was not invited to sit down with the men 432 00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:35,208 who were in the struggle with me. 433 00:20:35,291 --> 00:20:38,166 I realized I was really doing the right thing 434 00:20:38,250 --> 00:20:40,041 by becoming a feminist, 435 00:20:40,125 --> 00:20:44,542 and trying to start a feminist movement in the art world. 436 00:20:44,625 --> 00:20:47,125 Faith Ringgold is an artist who hasn't received 437 00:20:47,208 --> 00:20:48,375 the recognition she deserves, 438 00:20:48,458 --> 00:20:51,083 in part because of the form that she decided to use, 439 00:20:51,166 --> 00:20:53,333 but also because of just how incendiary 440 00:20:53,417 --> 00:20:56,458 her political style was. 441 00:20:56,542 --> 00:20:58,583 Her paintings in particular. 442 00:20:58,667 --> 00:21:01,959 Her political work also had such an invective, 443 00:21:02,041 --> 00:21:04,917 that some places weren't willing to be that radical. 444 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,875 I did what I wanted to do, and, uh, paid the price. 445 00:21:09,959 --> 00:21:13,166 I think it's also partly that she is... 446 00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:17,417 extremely courageous, ahead of her time. 447 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:20,917 Very fierce in her work, loving in her work. 448 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,959 She doesn't accept anyone else's leadership 449 00:21:24,041 --> 00:21:25,959 about how art should be. 450 00:21:26,041 --> 00:21:30,375 Which by the way, I think is what it means to be an artist. 451 00:21:30,458 --> 00:21:32,875 ♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 452 00:21:37,250 --> 00:21:39,542 DAVID: One of the great American artists, 453 00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:42,458 Richard Mayhew, was part of Two Centuries. 454 00:21:42,542 --> 00:21:44,834 His work was a continuum of sorts. 455 00:21:44,917 --> 00:21:46,083 It was in the tradition 456 00:21:46,166 --> 00:21:49,333 of the great Black American landscape painters. 457 00:21:49,417 --> 00:21:51,458 Of Bannister, of Duncanson, 458 00:21:51,542 --> 00:21:57,083 of others that we think of when we say, "America the Beautiful." 459 00:21:57,166 --> 00:22:00,208 RICHARD MAYHEW: My paintings were based on mood space, 460 00:22:00,291 --> 00:22:03,208 feeling of time, and mood of the moment. 461 00:22:03,291 --> 00:22:05,500 It's a joy. It's like a dance. 462 00:22:05,583 --> 00:22:09,625 They look like landscapes, but they're mindscapes. 463 00:22:09,709 --> 00:22:12,250 (CHUCKLES) 464 00:22:12,333 --> 00:22:16,166 So what we mean by mindscape is it was all internalized 465 00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:17,500 thinking and feeling. 466 00:22:17,583 --> 00:22:20,417 I started painting very, very young. 467 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:22,583 I-- I used to see painters, 468 00:22:22,667 --> 00:22:25,417 and I used to go to the museum and watch them paint. 469 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:28,959 And it was fascinating, watching the magic wand as you call it, 470 00:22:29,041 --> 00:22:30,417 a dip in the paint 471 00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:33,750 and images come out the other end... (LAUGHS) on the canvas. 472 00:22:33,834 --> 00:22:36,625 So that kind of thrilled me just seeing that 473 00:22:36,709 --> 00:22:39,000 and that kind of challenged me about 474 00:22:39,083 --> 00:22:40,750 the whole idea of painting. 475 00:22:40,834 --> 00:22:43,917 The mystique and the magic of it. 476 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,458 Well, I was drawing all the time, constantly drawing. 477 00:22:47,542 --> 00:22:49,166 How I learned to draw I can't imagine that, 478 00:22:49,250 --> 00:22:54,208 because I could draw almost anything as in-- Very early-- very early on. 479 00:22:54,291 --> 00:22:56,166 I went to study at The Art Academy 480 00:22:56,250 --> 00:22:57,458 in Florence, Italy 481 00:22:57,542 --> 00:23:00,208 and I went to study at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. 482 00:23:00,291 --> 00:23:03,083 I met Spiral when I came back from Europe. 483 00:23:03,166 --> 00:23:04,834 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 484 00:23:04,917 --> 00:23:08,166 SARAH LEWIS: In 1963, Mayhew joined The Spiral Group, 485 00:23:08,250 --> 00:23:11,208 founded by painters Romare Bearden and Norman Lewis 486 00:23:11,291 --> 00:23:13,667 in response to the civil rights struggle. 487 00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:16,000 They discussed the plight of Blacks in America 488 00:23:16,083 --> 00:23:18,250 and the direction African American art 489 00:23:18,333 --> 00:23:19,417 should take. 490 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:22,625 The, uh, legacy that they've left is unbelievable... 491 00:23:23,625 --> 00:23:25,041 and very special people. 492 00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:26,375 So they weren't just artists, 493 00:23:26,458 --> 00:23:30,208 these were the mentors of the future of American society. 494 00:23:30,291 --> 00:23:33,917 SARAH: Spiral began in Romare Bearden's studio. 495 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,125 The fifth floor of his Canal Street loft. 496 00:23:36,208 --> 00:23:39,417 Spiral came into being in 1963 497 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:41,250 at the height of the civil rights movement. 498 00:23:41,333 --> 00:23:43,125 And in fact, they got together 499 00:23:43,208 --> 00:23:45,750 because there was an idea that, uh, there should be 500 00:23:45,834 --> 00:23:47,125 a group of Black artists 501 00:23:47,208 --> 00:23:49,417 who should go to the March on Washington. 502 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:51,750 SARAH: The question became how can artists 503 00:23:51,834 --> 00:23:53,750 engage with the civil rights movement? 504 00:23:53,834 --> 00:23:55,667 Artists who were working in abstract means 505 00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:58,041 and artists who were more overtly political. 506 00:23:58,125 --> 00:24:01,291 And Spiral was trying to find a way to create a bridge 507 00:24:01,375 --> 00:24:03,583 between these two seemingly separate worlds. 508 00:24:03,667 --> 00:24:06,709 And it was really the first major group 509 00:24:06,792 --> 00:24:10,417 of Black artists that assembled since the 40s. 510 00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:13,583 And when they got together, they really discovered 511 00:24:13,667 --> 00:24:16,208 that they had an enormous amount to talk about. 512 00:24:16,291 --> 00:24:18,750 So there was Hale Woodruff, Charles Alston, 513 00:24:18,834 --> 00:24:21,250 Richard Mayhew, Romare Bearden. 514 00:24:21,333 --> 00:24:23,625 I think Emma Amos was the only woman... (SCOFFS) 515 00:24:23,709 --> 00:24:25,625 they permitted into the group. 516 00:24:25,709 --> 00:24:30,375 I tried to join Spiral, and they told me no. 517 00:24:30,458 --> 00:24:32,208 Didn't you write a letter to Romare Bearden 518 00:24:32,291 --> 00:24:34,208 -asking to join? -Yes, I did. Yes, I did. 519 00:24:34,291 --> 00:24:35,792 -MICHELE WALLACE: Actually, what he did... -Oh, actually-- 520 00:24:35,875 --> 00:24:37,583 -...was critic your work. -Yeah, that's what he did. 521 00:24:37,667 --> 00:24:39,583 -MICHELE: He never responded to the question. -Absolutely. 522 00:24:39,667 --> 00:24:41,375 -It's coming back to-- -MICHELE: Basically, he said, 523 00:24:41,458 --> 00:24:43,125 "You need to go back to the drawing board," 524 00:24:43,208 --> 00:24:45,291 and the final lines were something like, 525 00:24:45,375 --> 00:24:48,166 "In time, your works will find its own friends." 526 00:24:48,250 --> 00:24:50,291 There you go, yes. 527 00:24:50,375 --> 00:24:52,750 And I didn't ask them for a critique. 528 00:24:52,834 --> 00:24:57,125 I-- I-- I was-- I had all the credentials they had and more. 529 00:24:57,208 --> 00:24:58,959 SARAH: The fact that Norman Lewis is part of it, 530 00:24:59,041 --> 00:25:00,583 for me, is an important signal here. 531 00:25:00,667 --> 00:25:03,458 Norman Lewis asked a question of those gathered 532 00:25:03,542 --> 00:25:07,250 at one of the meetings, "Is there a negro image?" 533 00:25:07,333 --> 00:25:09,333 is how he put it. 534 00:25:09,417 --> 00:25:13,375 What is a Black aesthetic? Is there one? Right? 535 00:25:13,458 --> 00:25:16,333 The fact that Norman Lewis was asking the question for me is interesting 536 00:25:16,417 --> 00:25:18,709 because if you teach the history of modernism, 537 00:25:18,792 --> 00:25:21,458 you have to teach about Normal Lewis' work. 538 00:25:21,542 --> 00:25:24,250 He becomes a kind of metaphor for how difficult it is 539 00:25:24,333 --> 00:25:26,041 to engage with Black abstraction. 540 00:25:26,125 --> 00:25:28,917 Norman Lewis was one of the artists from Spiral. 541 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000 He was involved with spiritual painting. 542 00:25:31,083 --> 00:25:33,458 You're not painting on the canvas, 543 00:25:33,542 --> 00:25:34,834 you're inside the canvas, 544 00:25:34,917 --> 00:25:37,083 you're inside the painting, painting out. 545 00:25:37,166 --> 00:25:40,458 When I met this group, it wasn't just artists. 546 00:25:40,542 --> 00:25:41,875 It was composers and writers, 547 00:25:41,959 --> 00:25:44,583 and those who came and met with this group. 548 00:25:44,667 --> 00:25:45,959 And that was fantastic. 549 00:25:47,291 --> 00:25:50,333 Reginald Gammon was a-- a graphic designer. 550 00:25:50,417 --> 00:25:53,041 He taught Romare Bearden how to do paste-ups, 551 00:25:53,125 --> 00:25:57,792 cut out Xerox pieces and pasting them together. 552 00:25:57,875 --> 00:26:01,250 That was the first Romare Bearden collage. 553 00:26:01,333 --> 00:26:04,834 Now, the gallery saw what Romare Bearden was doing 554 00:26:04,917 --> 00:26:06,208 and they clapped and applauded 555 00:26:06,291 --> 00:26:09,875 the fact that, "Oh, this is what you should continue to do." 556 00:26:09,959 --> 00:26:12,208 So he took off in that direction 557 00:26:12,291 --> 00:26:13,458 and that was the beginning 558 00:26:13,542 --> 00:26:16,667 of the whole collage development that was taking place. 559 00:26:16,750 --> 00:26:18,917 The story that I've heard is that Romy, um, 560 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,375 brought this brown bag of scraps to one of the meetings one day, 561 00:26:24,458 --> 00:26:26,709 and he tried to get some of the artists 562 00:26:26,792 --> 00:26:28,583 interested in doing a collage. 563 00:26:28,667 --> 00:26:32,083 Uh, Norman Lewis, Emma Amos, Mayhew, 564 00:26:32,166 --> 00:26:36,041 and-- and he said none of them could really-- were really into it. 565 00:26:36,125 --> 00:26:38,750 Um, he said they all were doing their own thing. 566 00:26:38,834 --> 00:26:40,750 And he didn't mean that pejoratively, 567 00:26:40,834 --> 00:26:42,458 he just meant that nobody was interested 568 00:26:42,542 --> 00:26:44,583 in this collaborative work. 569 00:26:44,667 --> 00:26:48,709 So Romy continued to work on his collages. 570 00:26:48,792 --> 00:26:52,083 And one of the artists from Spiral came 571 00:26:52,166 --> 00:26:54,125 and saw the work and said, 572 00:26:54,208 --> 00:26:56,458 "You know what?" That-- it was Reginald Gammon. 573 00:26:56,542 --> 00:26:59,375 He said, "You ought to photograph that and blow it up." 574 00:26:59,458 --> 00:27:04,458 And so that's how he came upon taking those small collages 575 00:27:04,542 --> 00:27:05,792 and blowing them up. 576 00:27:05,875 --> 00:27:09,834 And they became his projections, which was the work that, um, 577 00:27:09,917 --> 00:27:13,041 he really-- really, uh-- It was a milestone for him. 578 00:27:23,458 --> 00:27:27,083 DAVID: I started working on this piece last week, 579 00:27:27,166 --> 00:27:32,041 and, uh, wasn't sure as to where I was gonna take it. 580 00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:38,750 Bearden was the main inspiration for my collage work. 581 00:27:38,834 --> 00:27:44,583 And, uh, I did a piece in-- in the 70s... 582 00:27:45,917 --> 00:27:48,875 after he came to visit me at Fisk. 583 00:27:50,166 --> 00:27:54,208 And I called it Homage to-- to Bearden. 584 00:27:55,417 --> 00:27:59,667 And, uh, I exhibited it in New York in 1980. 585 00:27:59,750 --> 00:28:02,083 He came to the exhibition and he saw it. 586 00:28:03,166 --> 00:28:04,208 And, uh... 587 00:28:05,417 --> 00:28:11,166 he said, uh, "I'm taken with the notion that you 588 00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:14,959 like what I do well enough to kind of celebrate it." 589 00:28:15,041 --> 00:28:20,125 He said, "But what you're doing there is not David, 590 00:28:20,208 --> 00:28:23,000 it's-- it's more of Romy." 591 00:28:23,083 --> 00:28:27,083 And he went over to another piece that I had done... 592 00:28:27,166 --> 00:28:29,375 (CLEARS THROAT) 593 00:28:29,458 --> 00:28:31,750 in which I had torn the pieces, you know, 594 00:28:31,834 --> 00:28:35,417 he cut his out a lot. I had torn the pieces. 595 00:28:36,458 --> 00:28:38,667 And he said, "Now that's-- 596 00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:42,041 You're using collage there, and that's you." 597 00:28:42,125 --> 00:28:44,291 He said, "That's your voice." 598 00:28:44,375 --> 00:28:47,667 And, you know, only a friend would tell you that. 599 00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:53,709 Hilton Kramer, who was the art critic 600 00:28:53,792 --> 00:28:55,000 for the New York Times 601 00:28:55,083 --> 00:28:56,500 has had a rather mixed review of your show, 602 00:28:56,583 --> 00:28:58,959 saying that it was not generally of the highest quality. 603 00:28:59,041 --> 00:29:01,000 -Does that disappoint you? -No, not at all. 604 00:29:01,083 --> 00:29:04,291 I expect that from what one refers to as a mainstream critic. 605 00:29:04,375 --> 00:29:07,375 Uh, because in many cases, these persons are not familiar 606 00:29:07,458 --> 00:29:09,709 with what we might refer to as a Black experience, 607 00:29:09,792 --> 00:29:12,583 they never had the experience of knowing what it was like 608 00:29:12,667 --> 00:29:17,083 to, uh, suffer injustices, uh-- Knowing what it's like to live 609 00:29:17,166 --> 00:29:18,750 in the poverty that many of these artists 610 00:29:18,834 --> 00:29:20,542 have experienced, and consequently, 611 00:29:20,625 --> 00:29:22,959 they have no real sensitivity. No real feel 612 00:29:23,041 --> 00:29:24,750 for what it has taken for these artists 613 00:29:24,834 --> 00:29:27,834 to achieve what they've, uh, achieved at this time. 614 00:29:27,917 --> 00:29:31,917 I got to throw out props to-- to David Driskell at this moment 615 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,750 because he got all sorts of flak from the New York Times, 616 00:29:36,834 --> 00:29:38,792 from various mainstream media. 617 00:29:38,875 --> 00:29:42,291 People-- People who are supposedly authorities on art, 618 00:29:42,375 --> 00:29:46,417 who did not know anything about African American art, 619 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:49,583 and he provides this very, very important lesson 620 00:29:49,667 --> 00:29:52,375 on looking at African American art historically, 621 00:29:52,458 --> 00:29:55,709 looking at African American art in a more complex way... 622 00:29:55,792 --> 00:29:58,583 And he fought, you know, real resistance 623 00:29:58,667 --> 00:30:00,291 on the parts of institutions 624 00:30:00,375 --> 00:30:02,667 to say there is something else that we can show. 625 00:30:02,750 --> 00:30:04,792 There is something else that we can engage with 626 00:30:04,875 --> 00:30:07,041 that shows a much more complex side 627 00:30:07,125 --> 00:30:09,625 of both modernism and American art. 628 00:30:09,709 --> 00:30:13,083 No one had been accustomed to seeing Black artists, 629 00:30:13,166 --> 00:30:15,375 Black historians on television 630 00:30:15,458 --> 00:30:18,000 talking about Black art. They'd say, "Black art? 631 00:30:18,083 --> 00:30:21,125 What is it?" Even the critics, Hilton Kramer, 632 00:30:21,208 --> 00:30:23,458 who was just so taken with the notion 633 00:30:23,542 --> 00:30:27,041 that we had the audacity to be talking about Black art. 634 00:30:27,125 --> 00:30:28,625 And my response was, 635 00:30:28,709 --> 00:30:30,875 "Hilton Kramer? Who is Hilton Kramer?" 636 00:30:30,959 --> 00:30:32,792 It wasn't an exhibition that was supposed 637 00:30:32,875 --> 00:30:34,667 to do everything for everybody. 638 00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:36,333 It wasn't supposed to include everybody. 639 00:30:36,417 --> 00:30:38,083 It was supposed to be a cross section of work 640 00:30:38,166 --> 00:30:39,583 that had been made in the United States 641 00:30:39,667 --> 00:30:42,792 over the past 200-- over the 200 years up until that time. 642 00:30:42,875 --> 00:30:46,375 The selection process was not an easy one. 643 00:30:46,458 --> 00:30:51,500 Uh, first of all, you realize that you're gonna be 644 00:30:51,583 --> 00:30:56,208 subjecting yourself to criticism because people are gonna say, 645 00:30:56,291 --> 00:30:58,083 "Why did you leave such and such a person out?" 646 00:30:58,166 --> 00:31:00,166 "Why did you choose this one over that one?" 647 00:31:00,250 --> 00:31:01,458 I mean you have to accept that 648 00:31:01,542 --> 00:31:03,667 when a curator does an exhibition sometimes, 649 00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:05,917 I mean, they-- By definition, it's gonna be limited 650 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,125 to the scope that the curator has imagined. 651 00:31:08,208 --> 00:31:12,667 And if it doesn't include everything I like, 652 00:31:12,750 --> 00:31:14,750 that's not particularly problematic for me 653 00:31:14,834 --> 00:31:16,375 because I expect that there would be 654 00:31:16,458 --> 00:31:18,500 other exhibitions to follow. 655 00:31:18,583 --> 00:31:20,291 I think it was probably 656 00:31:20,375 --> 00:31:23,458 the first major modern exhibition... 657 00:31:24,583 --> 00:31:25,709 uh... 658 00:31:25,792 --> 00:31:29,458 which brought the Black subject period 659 00:31:29,542 --> 00:31:32,959 to the attention of the American public. 660 00:31:33,041 --> 00:31:38,458 I came up with the notion that in order to do it properly 661 00:31:38,542 --> 00:31:40,875 and to do it historically, 662 00:31:40,959 --> 00:31:44,709 I ought to talk about the fine arts tradition 663 00:31:44,792 --> 00:31:47,834 of portrait artists, and artists like Joshua Johnston 664 00:31:47,917 --> 00:31:53,500 from Baltimore in the late 1700s, early 1800s. 665 00:31:53,583 --> 00:31:58,250 The assumption was that Black artists, uh... 666 00:31:58,333 --> 00:32:00,166 There were no Black artists, first of all, 667 00:32:00,250 --> 00:32:02,250 but those who considered themselves artists 668 00:32:02,333 --> 00:32:07,250 were not capable, intellectually or practically, 669 00:32:07,333 --> 00:32:09,583 of delivering a product 670 00:32:09,667 --> 00:32:12,917 that fitted the so-called European canon. 671 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,166 And so when artists like Johnston came along, 672 00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:20,583 people started buying his portraits. 673 00:32:20,667 --> 00:32:23,333 Artists like Robert Duncanson came along 674 00:32:23,417 --> 00:32:25,625 and people saw the beautiful landscape and said, 675 00:32:25,709 --> 00:32:27,917 "Oh, he's painting within the boundaries 676 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,458 of the Hudson River School tradition." 677 00:32:30,542 --> 00:32:32,625 Edward Mitchell Bannister a little later, 678 00:32:32,709 --> 00:32:35,083 and they said, "Well, he is very much like 679 00:32:35,166 --> 00:32:37,667 the Barbizon painters out of France." 680 00:32:38,959 --> 00:32:41,166 RADCLIFFE BAILEY: Those artists from the past really 681 00:32:41,250 --> 00:32:42,917 influenced my work. 682 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,125 But I think it's important for us, 683 00:32:45,208 --> 00:32:48,166 those that are younger, to constantly mention 684 00:32:48,250 --> 00:32:49,792 and bring up the names 685 00:32:49,875 --> 00:32:53,166 of those that have opened doors before us. 686 00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:54,959 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 687 00:32:55,041 --> 00:32:57,417 RADCLIFFE: I am an artist, Black artist. 688 00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:58,875 African American artist. 689 00:32:58,959 --> 00:33:00,917 And I am an artist just in general. 690 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,500 I wanted to go to collage and play baseball. 691 00:33:03,583 --> 00:33:04,917 I wanted to play ball. 692 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,542 Then I realized that that was a dream. 693 00:33:07,625 --> 00:33:12,041 And, um, I went back towards where my mother guided me. 694 00:33:12,125 --> 00:33:14,458 And I ended up going to art school. 695 00:33:14,542 --> 00:33:15,792 I went to art school thinking 696 00:33:15,875 --> 00:33:18,625 that I was going to study something like graphic design. 697 00:33:18,709 --> 00:33:21,875 And then I heard a lecture, um, from an artist. 698 00:33:21,959 --> 00:33:23,625 And I remember... 699 00:33:23,709 --> 00:33:25,875 hearing about the artist talking about his work 700 00:33:25,959 --> 00:33:28,834 and he was having so much fun that I said, "No, 701 00:33:28,917 --> 00:33:32,333 I need to make-- make art, make objects." 702 00:33:32,417 --> 00:33:35,917 And then I just went full throttle towards it. 703 00:33:40,583 --> 00:33:44,125 I see myself as a vessel and things come through me. 704 00:33:48,917 --> 00:33:51,291 I found an old piano shop in my neighborhood, 705 00:33:51,375 --> 00:33:54,417 and I just remember these guys tearing out these piano keys 706 00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:55,792 and throwing them away. 707 00:33:55,875 --> 00:33:59,333 And it just struck me like, "No, don't throw those away." 708 00:33:59,417 --> 00:34:05,625 So I collected maybe about... close to 500 sets of piano keys. 709 00:34:05,709 --> 00:34:08,417 And, uh, I didn't know what I was gonna do with them. 710 00:34:08,500 --> 00:34:10,291 But I remember bringing them in the studio 711 00:34:10,375 --> 00:34:12,792 and dropping them on the floor. 712 00:34:12,875 --> 00:34:16,166 And right then and there, that was the piece. 713 00:34:21,250 --> 00:34:25,667 And, uh, the piano keys basically turned into ocean. 714 00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:28,208 And-- and I was thinking about the connections 715 00:34:28,291 --> 00:34:29,542 between the oceans. 716 00:34:29,625 --> 00:34:32,709 So it was a combination of that, plus the experiences of me 717 00:34:32,792 --> 00:34:35,208 as a kid going fishing with my father. 718 00:34:35,291 --> 00:34:37,542 And my father would go so far out into the sea 719 00:34:37,625 --> 00:34:39,709 to a point where we couldn't see land. 720 00:34:39,792 --> 00:34:42,792 And it just reminded me of that experience of being lonely, 721 00:34:42,875 --> 00:34:44,375 but that's also based on those 722 00:34:44,458 --> 00:34:48,583 that were lost at sea, um, during the Middle Passage. 723 00:34:48,667 --> 00:34:52,750 And the figure itself was like a bust that is, uh... 724 00:34:52,834 --> 00:34:54,667 It was like a death mask. 725 00:35:01,583 --> 00:35:04,333 He loves the materials that he's using. 726 00:35:04,417 --> 00:35:07,417 And it's paint and it's glass, and it's photographs, 727 00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:09,291 and it's bit of paper, and it's fabric. 728 00:35:09,375 --> 00:35:11,083 And he has an ability to 729 00:35:11,166 --> 00:35:13,709 bring all of those fragments together. 730 00:35:13,792 --> 00:35:17,959 It's telling a story. It's telling us about our past. 731 00:35:18,041 --> 00:35:20,542 And it's telling us something about where we're going. 732 00:35:20,625 --> 00:35:22,583 Radcliffe Bailey, for me, kind of represents 733 00:35:22,667 --> 00:35:26,417 the wonder and joy, uh, of an artist. 734 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:28,542 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 735 00:35:31,333 --> 00:35:32,792 RADCLIFFE: This is where I pray. 736 00:35:32,875 --> 00:35:35,959 This is where I think about the future. 737 00:35:36,041 --> 00:35:40,959 I think about the past, I ask questions. 738 00:35:41,041 --> 00:35:45,333 I have to separate myself from everyday life... 739 00:35:46,917 --> 00:35:48,125 when I start working. 740 00:35:48,208 --> 00:35:52,583 So I have to tune out everybody, everyone. 741 00:35:52,667 --> 00:35:56,375 Um, it's usually sometimes-- it's in the middle of the night. 742 00:35:56,458 --> 00:35:58,125 It's probably around midnight. 743 00:35:58,208 --> 00:35:59,792 And then I kinda come in here 744 00:35:59,875 --> 00:36:02,417 when I can actually hear nothing moving around. 745 00:36:03,250 --> 00:36:05,375 I just wanna create beauty. 746 00:36:24,667 --> 00:36:26,750 Oil painting is about light. 747 00:36:26,834 --> 00:36:30,333 The obsession with light is at once visual, 748 00:36:30,417 --> 00:36:31,625 religious and erotic. 749 00:36:34,125 --> 00:36:37,667 ♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 750 00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:41,667 The fact that you could take a hairy stick and colored paste 751 00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:45,500 and through the act of your mind and your hand, 752 00:36:45,583 --> 00:36:49,834 you cook something into being that-- that stands in 753 00:36:49,917 --> 00:36:52,750 as a representative of someone that you love. 754 00:36:52,834 --> 00:36:55,125 A landscape that you like. 755 00:36:55,208 --> 00:36:58,208 There is something al-- It's like alchemy. 756 00:36:58,291 --> 00:37:02,000 This week, the official portraits of former president Barack Obama 757 00:37:02,083 --> 00:37:03,959 and his wife Michelle were revealed. 758 00:37:04,041 --> 00:37:05,375 (AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) 759 00:37:05,458 --> 00:37:08,083 To be the first African American painter, 760 00:37:08,166 --> 00:37:11,041 to paint the first African American president 761 00:37:11,125 --> 00:37:14,667 of the United States is absolutely overwhelming. 762 00:37:14,750 --> 00:37:15,834 (AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) 763 00:37:15,917 --> 00:37:18,917 I think that canvas portrait of Obama 764 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,834 in the National Portrait Gallery is, um... 765 00:37:22,917 --> 00:37:26,417 it's both-- it's both beautiful and it's a challenge. 766 00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:30,792 What I was always struck by, whenever I saw his portraits... 767 00:37:30,875 --> 00:37:35,166 was the degree to which they challenged 768 00:37:35,250 --> 00:37:38,125 our conventional views of power and privilege. 769 00:37:41,834 --> 00:37:43,750 MAURICE: There's something about that portrait 770 00:37:43,834 --> 00:37:48,250 which is really, um, rich and full and exciting 771 00:37:48,333 --> 00:37:50,917 in a way that none of the other portrait of presidents are. 772 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,166 I-- I googled portraits of presidents 773 00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:56,417 and there they were. All of them. 774 00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:59,083 All of the terrible, terrible portraits of presidents 775 00:37:59,166 --> 00:38:03,542 and they were mostly really conservative and really boring, and-- 776 00:38:03,625 --> 00:38:07,333 And it got me thinking about how really far 777 00:38:07,417 --> 00:38:09,000 the envelope got pushed. 778 00:38:09,083 --> 00:38:12,000 I think what Kehinde understood was the stakes were different. 779 00:38:12,083 --> 00:38:13,750 When you have two centuries 780 00:38:13,834 --> 00:38:16,709 of straight, white men who are president, 781 00:38:16,792 --> 00:38:18,417 and then you have Barack Obama, 782 00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:20,083 that portrait better be different. 783 00:38:20,166 --> 00:38:24,458 There were a number of issues that we were trying to negotiate, um... 784 00:38:24,542 --> 00:38:27,250 I tried to negotiate less grey hair. 785 00:38:27,333 --> 00:38:30,250 I tried to negotiate smaller ears. 786 00:38:30,333 --> 00:38:31,959 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 787 00:38:32,041 --> 00:38:34,709 -BARACK OBAMA: Struck out on that as well. -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 788 00:38:34,792 --> 00:38:36,667 I showed up in 2016 789 00:38:36,750 --> 00:38:38,750 while he was still in the Oval office. 790 00:38:38,834 --> 00:38:40,208 Incredibly nervous. 791 00:38:40,291 --> 00:38:44,208 Uh, and trying to get words out to communicate what it is 792 00:38:44,291 --> 00:38:46,166 that I could bring to the picture that's new. 793 00:38:46,250 --> 00:38:47,500 That's different from those paintings 794 00:38:47,583 --> 00:38:49,208 that you see in the museums 795 00:38:49,291 --> 00:38:51,458 and that's different from all the contemporary art 796 00:38:51,542 --> 00:38:53,125 that you see today. 797 00:38:53,208 --> 00:38:55,166 I think I must have said something right 798 00:38:55,250 --> 00:38:56,792 because I got the gig. 799 00:38:56,875 --> 00:39:01,792 But ultimately, uh, what I tried to communicate was that 800 00:39:01,875 --> 00:39:05,291 I will be looking not only at the presidency, 801 00:39:05,375 --> 00:39:07,291 or the history of received power, 802 00:39:07,375 --> 00:39:09,792 or the evolution of power's form, 803 00:39:09,875 --> 00:39:12,834 but rather, I would be looking at him as a man. 804 00:39:12,917 --> 00:39:15,750 His physical presence in the world. 805 00:39:18,417 --> 00:39:22,291 (AUDIENCE APPLAUDS) 806 00:39:24,333 --> 00:39:26,250 The first thing I did when I found out that-- 807 00:39:26,333 --> 00:39:27,542 that I was chosen 808 00:39:27,625 --> 00:39:29,583 was I'd go online and, like, look at the millions of images 809 00:39:29,667 --> 00:39:31,667 of Michelle and the kind of person 810 00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:35,542 that she presented to the world, and then, you know, 811 00:39:35,625 --> 00:39:38,041 wanting to capture something really private. 812 00:39:38,125 --> 00:39:40,375 It's about capturing that moment 813 00:39:40,458 --> 00:39:42,125 when they're giving you something different, 814 00:39:42,208 --> 00:39:43,709 or where they're a little more relaxed, 815 00:39:43,792 --> 00:39:46,041 and that can happen in a split second. 816 00:39:46,125 --> 00:39:48,208 BERNARD LUMPKIN: Amy Sherald did not become a household name 817 00:39:48,291 --> 00:39:51,375 until she painted the portrait of the First Lady Michelle Obama. 818 00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:54,125 Tell us how game-changing this moment is? 819 00:39:54,208 --> 00:39:56,709 I am relieved... (CHUCKLES) 820 00:39:56,792 --> 00:40:00,792 that, um, I can pay back my school loans. 821 00:40:00,875 --> 00:40:02,375 You know, it's something that-- 822 00:40:02,458 --> 00:40:04,208 I mean becoming an artist is not empirical, 823 00:40:04,291 --> 00:40:07,166 so it's not about hard work. I mean, you have to put the work in, 824 00:40:07,250 --> 00:40:08,875 but that doesn't mean that you're going to make it 825 00:40:08,959 --> 00:40:10,792 and then the breakthrough comes and then you're like, 826 00:40:10,875 --> 00:40:13,709 "Oh yeah, that's who I am. Like, this is who I am. Yeah." 827 00:40:13,792 --> 00:40:16,041 With that commission... 828 00:40:16,125 --> 00:40:21,959 Amy, literally inspired by the person Michelle Obama, 829 00:40:22,041 --> 00:40:26,417 creates this image which is not only deeply Michelle Obama, 830 00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:28,250 I mean that is her-- You know, the whole... 831 00:40:28,333 --> 00:40:31,667 Her whole gesture, the whole-- the beautiful fashion. 832 00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:35,625 She created such an incredible image of a powerful, 833 00:40:35,709 --> 00:40:37,583 beautiful Black woman. 834 00:40:37,667 --> 00:40:41,917 It's become a-- an international symbol. 835 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,333 That-- That-- And that shows the power of an image. 836 00:40:46,417 --> 00:40:48,250 Here's part of what the former First Lady, 837 00:40:48,333 --> 00:40:50,250 Michelle Obama, said at the unveiling of her portrait. 838 00:40:50,333 --> 00:40:52,375 -Sure. -Take a listen. 839 00:40:52,458 --> 00:40:55,417 I am also thinking about all of the young people, 840 00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:58,834 uh, particularly girls and girls of color... 841 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,250 who, in years ahead, will come to this place 842 00:41:03,333 --> 00:41:06,458 and they will look up and they will see an image 843 00:41:06,542 --> 00:41:10,250 of someone who looks like them hanging on the wall 844 00:41:10,333 --> 00:41:12,750 of this great American institution. 845 00:41:12,834 --> 00:41:15,208 AMY SHERALD: I think for me, little Parker Curry, 846 00:41:15,291 --> 00:41:17,458 being captivated by that image of Michelle 847 00:41:17,542 --> 00:41:19,375 and seeing her own greatness in it 848 00:41:19,458 --> 00:41:21,375 and being able to go into a space 849 00:41:21,458 --> 00:41:23,041 and realize that there were people 850 00:41:23,125 --> 00:41:26,250 that existed before her, whose legacies were so great 851 00:41:26,333 --> 00:41:28,375 that they've been archived in this institution, 852 00:41:28,458 --> 00:41:29,750 and it was a woman. 853 00:41:29,834 --> 00:41:32,291 Um, for her to walk away with that sense 854 00:41:32,375 --> 00:41:33,959 of being is really important. 855 00:41:34,041 --> 00:41:36,250 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 856 00:41:39,291 --> 00:41:41,667 AMY: I see myself as an American realist, 857 00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:45,166 which maybe some people would disagree with. 858 00:41:45,250 --> 00:41:47,458 My artistic process, the impetus of it, 859 00:41:47,542 --> 00:41:48,500 is really my life. 860 00:41:48,583 --> 00:41:50,458 I think the most interesting work 861 00:41:50,542 --> 00:41:52,208 that is being made 862 00:41:52,291 --> 00:41:54,792 has that autobiographical affect to it. 863 00:41:54,875 --> 00:41:57,333 It's really been about writing a visual diary of me 864 00:41:57,417 --> 00:42:01,875 trying to figure out who I am as a person, as an individual. 865 00:42:01,959 --> 00:42:04,834 I consider the people in my paintings archetypes. 866 00:42:04,917 --> 00:42:07,834 They represent something that's bigger 867 00:42:07,917 --> 00:42:10,250 than who they are as an individual. 868 00:42:10,333 --> 00:42:12,250 It's important for me that 869 00:42:12,333 --> 00:42:14,417 they're just Black people being Black. 870 00:42:16,083 --> 00:42:17,333 BERNARD: There is something 871 00:42:17,417 --> 00:42:19,166 which people have written about in Amy Sherald's paintings, 872 00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:21,083 which is the gaze. 873 00:42:21,166 --> 00:42:23,375 Her figures are often faced 874 00:42:23,458 --> 00:42:27,166 with a very strong, fixed gaze at the viewer. 875 00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:30,625 And people have written a lot about and she's talked about 876 00:42:30,709 --> 00:42:32,667 what that means and what's happening there. 877 00:42:32,750 --> 00:42:34,875 And one of things that's happening is 878 00:42:34,959 --> 00:42:37,333 she's depicting, or representing, 879 00:42:37,417 --> 00:42:39,500 in some way, the gaze that, 880 00:42:39,583 --> 00:42:42,709 you know, of the-- the white, dominant culture 881 00:42:42,792 --> 00:42:44,375 has on-- has on Black bodies. 882 00:42:44,458 --> 00:42:46,625 That sense of always being looked at 883 00:42:46,709 --> 00:42:48,291 through the eyes of someone else. 884 00:42:48,375 --> 00:42:50,750 That sense of a doubleness of identity. 885 00:42:50,834 --> 00:42:53,917 Your African self. Your American self. 886 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,000 And so I think painters are very interested 887 00:42:56,083 --> 00:42:57,709 in representing that gaze. 888 00:42:57,792 --> 00:43:00,083 The eyes tell you what's in the soul and for me, 889 00:43:00,166 --> 00:43:01,458 the people that I paint, 890 00:43:01,542 --> 00:43:04,333 they're no longer themselves in the painting. 891 00:43:04,417 --> 00:43:07,750 They are these archetypes that know they are present. 892 00:43:07,834 --> 00:43:09,125 These aren't passive portraits. 893 00:43:09,208 --> 00:43:13,875 They're maybe subversively, um, confrontational, if you will. 894 00:43:13,959 --> 00:43:18,250 But it's definitely a response to a lot of images I saw growing up 895 00:43:18,333 --> 00:43:20,417 where our gaze was always averted, 896 00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:21,917 or thinking about the fact 897 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,792 that you couldn't look at a white person in the eye. 898 00:43:26,875 --> 00:43:29,792 You know, so this is my way of nodding my head 899 00:43:29,875 --> 00:43:33,166 to that narrative, and empowering the image in a way. 900 00:43:33,250 --> 00:43:35,583 And so, I like the paintings, um, 901 00:43:35,667 --> 00:43:37,750 hung a little lower for that reason, 902 00:43:37,834 --> 00:43:41,583 so when the viewer walks up, it's more of a... 903 00:43:41,667 --> 00:43:43,375 of a-- it's a different conversation. 904 00:43:43,458 --> 00:43:44,834 Like you're not looking up at it. 905 00:43:44,917 --> 00:43:47,417 It's almost looking directly at you. 906 00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:50,625 And I think that creates a different kind of sensation. 907 00:43:50,709 --> 00:43:53,250 MARY: She gives us this image of a person. 908 00:43:53,333 --> 00:43:55,542 And what's interesting is that almost always, 909 00:43:55,625 --> 00:44:01,667 they're not painted in, um, their actual skin tone. 910 00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:05,959 They may be kind of charcoal or blueish. 911 00:44:06,041 --> 00:44:09,834 So already, she's alerted you to the fact that, 912 00:44:09,917 --> 00:44:15,792 "I'm painting what appears to be something that's super-real." 913 00:44:15,875 --> 00:44:17,917 But in fact, I am giving you clues 914 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,792 that this is just an exterior that has been constructed 915 00:44:23,875 --> 00:44:27,375 and that, in fact, behind this exterior, 916 00:44:27,458 --> 00:44:30,291 there is also this world. 917 00:44:30,375 --> 00:44:33,208 So she puts the exterior-interior, I think, 918 00:44:33,291 --> 00:44:36,458 into kind of a real tension on her paintings. 919 00:44:36,542 --> 00:44:38,166 For that reason, I can just stand in front 920 00:44:38,250 --> 00:44:43,000 of one of her paintings for, you know, hours. (LAUGHS) 921 00:44:43,083 --> 00:44:45,875 I think a lot of galleries are now picking up Black artists 922 00:44:45,959 --> 00:44:49,542 because there is this, you know, like, gold rush. 923 00:44:49,625 --> 00:44:51,542 I say that it's because we're making 924 00:44:51,625 --> 00:44:57,291 some of the best work and the most relevant work. 925 00:44:57,375 --> 00:44:59,500 I think there is absolutely, kind of, 926 00:44:59,583 --> 00:45:01,417 something happening right now, but I'm also-- 927 00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:06,166 I always really want to not, kind of, make this moment 928 00:45:06,250 --> 00:45:07,834 seem so singular and special. 929 00:45:07,917 --> 00:45:10,166 Because I think we-- There have always been Black artists. 930 00:45:10,250 --> 00:45:11,834 There have always been Black curators. 931 00:45:11,917 --> 00:45:13,208 There have always been Black collectors. 932 00:45:13,291 --> 00:45:16,542 They just perhaps have not been part of the mainstream. 933 00:45:16,625 --> 00:45:19,709 ♪ (HIP HOP MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 934 00:45:19,792 --> 00:45:21,041 ♪ It's me, snitches ♪ 935 00:45:21,125 --> 00:45:23,000 KASSEEM DEAN: Art and music are brothers and sisters. 936 00:45:23,083 --> 00:45:24,750 I got into collecting by accident. 937 00:45:24,834 --> 00:45:26,959 Collect what you feel. Collect what you love. 938 00:45:27,041 --> 00:45:30,166 The Dean Collection is promoting, uh, living artists. 939 00:45:30,250 --> 00:45:33,041 African Americans have to tell our own story. 940 00:45:33,125 --> 00:45:34,875 The work is amazing. 941 00:45:34,959 --> 00:45:36,709 I am definitely not just a collector. 942 00:45:36,792 --> 00:45:40,375 I love being a disruptive. I love activism. 943 00:45:40,458 --> 00:45:41,500 Coming from the Bronx 944 00:45:41,583 --> 00:45:44,875 and coming into money, uh, very early. 945 00:45:44,959 --> 00:45:47,083 I got the bug. And then what I did was 946 00:45:47,166 --> 00:45:50,208 I started going around, uh, to local galleries. 947 00:45:50,291 --> 00:45:53,583 Most of the galleries used to, uh, not take me serious. 948 00:45:53,667 --> 00:45:55,709 Baggy pants, braids. 949 00:45:55,792 --> 00:45:58,542 But I didn't let that, um, deter me. 950 00:45:58,625 --> 00:45:59,750 ♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪ 951 00:45:59,834 --> 00:46:02,542 MICHELE: I admire Swizz Beatz and Alicia. 952 00:46:02,625 --> 00:46:06,542 Because Swizz has allowed himself to be positioned 953 00:46:06,625 --> 00:46:10,917 as an African American collector of African American art. 954 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,667 And he and Alicia are about the culture. 955 00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:16,500 Swizz and, um, Puff Daddy 956 00:46:16,583 --> 00:46:21,083 and, uh, Jay-Z and Beyoncé are collecting now. 957 00:46:21,166 --> 00:46:24,083 Um, it really, um, elevates the game. 958 00:46:24,166 --> 00:46:26,917 And there're a lot of people who look at what they're doing 959 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,875 and what-- what is important to them. 960 00:46:28,959 --> 00:46:31,291 Over the last few years... 961 00:46:31,375 --> 00:46:35,000 uh, Swizz has built a collection of Gordon Parks' photographs 962 00:46:35,083 --> 00:46:36,792 that is unequaled in private hands. 963 00:46:36,875 --> 00:46:39,834 In fact, it is the largest collection 964 00:46:39,917 --> 00:46:41,625 of Gordon Parks photographs. 965 00:46:41,709 --> 00:46:46,834 All we want to do is preserve a piece of, uh, Gordon's legacy 966 00:46:46,917 --> 00:46:49,333 for the next generation to have access to it. 967 00:46:50,375 --> 00:46:52,208 The Dean Collection started out 968 00:46:52,291 --> 00:46:54,709 as this imaginary museum for my kids. 969 00:46:56,041 --> 00:46:58,250 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 970 00:46:58,333 --> 00:47:00,041 KASSEEM: And then, what happened was 971 00:47:00,125 --> 00:47:04,458 I started posting artists, um, on my Instagram 972 00:47:04,542 --> 00:47:06,291 that people weren't familiar with. 973 00:47:06,375 --> 00:47:10,625 And then I started getting, uh, people writing me back saying, 974 00:47:10,709 --> 00:47:13,041 "Man, I appreciate you, thank you," this, that. 975 00:47:13,125 --> 00:47:14,542 I'm like, "No, thank you for what?" 976 00:47:14,625 --> 00:47:17,542 Like, "Your work is great." "No, my show sold out. 977 00:47:17,625 --> 00:47:20,250 Galleries that wouldn't talk to me are calling me now." 978 00:47:20,333 --> 00:47:22,959 Then I started understanding the importance 979 00:47:23,709 --> 00:47:26,000 of promoting living artists. 980 00:47:26,083 --> 00:47:28,667 They used to laugh at me for collecting art. 981 00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:31,166 I've been having fun with this for 20 years. 982 00:47:31,250 --> 00:47:33,417 ♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪ 983 00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:38,500 KASSEEM: The Kaws piece and the Kehinde piece 984 00:47:38,583 --> 00:47:39,709 were the two pieces 985 00:47:39,792 --> 00:47:42,834 that kinda, like, started the Dean Collection. 986 00:47:42,917 --> 00:47:45,542 Nobody ever thought that this sculpture would be in a house. 987 00:47:45,625 --> 00:47:48,083 This is the first time a sculpture like this 988 00:47:48,166 --> 00:47:49,792 is under a roof. 989 00:47:49,875 --> 00:47:52,583 Well, this is-- this is from the Laying Down series. 990 00:47:52,667 --> 00:47:55,083 The fact that somebody's hand, like the t-- 991 00:47:55,166 --> 00:47:57,333 A human's hand, did this, 992 00:47:57,417 --> 00:48:00,208 and it looked like he just did it yesterday. 993 00:48:00,291 --> 00:48:02,000 I can't show this piece enough. 994 00:48:03,542 --> 00:48:05,041 You know, we put the Dean Collection museum 995 00:48:05,125 --> 00:48:09,208 on our property, uh, so the public can-- can see the collection. 996 00:48:09,291 --> 00:48:10,875 This is Hank Willis' ball. 997 00:48:10,959 --> 00:48:14,000 We have artist of all colors from all around the world. 998 00:48:14,083 --> 00:48:16,250 When someone buys your work, 999 00:48:16,333 --> 00:48:20,375 it's not ever really about the money for an artist, 1000 00:48:20,458 --> 00:48:22,375 it's about the vote of confidence. 1001 00:48:22,458 --> 00:48:26,125 It's really someone saying, "Keep doing what you're doing. 1002 00:48:26,208 --> 00:48:28,542 I'm making space for you to make new things." 1003 00:48:28,625 --> 00:48:32,834 And what's exciting about Karen Jenkins-Johnson, 1004 00:48:32,917 --> 00:48:35,291 Swizz Beatz, uh, Bernard Lumpkin 1005 00:48:35,375 --> 00:48:39,083 and many, many amazing African American collectors 1006 00:48:39,166 --> 00:48:42,083 that I've gotten to engage with over the years, 1007 00:48:42,166 --> 00:48:46,041 is that they have a-- a joy, a verve, 1008 00:48:46,125 --> 00:48:48,834 um, an enthusiasm for the work, 1009 00:48:48,917 --> 00:48:51,458 um, that really is affirming, 1010 00:48:51,542 --> 00:48:53,375 that really gives you confidence. 1011 00:48:53,458 --> 00:48:55,458 I think it's absolutely necessary 1012 00:48:55,542 --> 00:49:00,291 that Black people with money buy African American art. 1013 00:49:00,375 --> 00:49:02,041 VALERIE: It's important when they see 1014 00:49:02,125 --> 00:49:04,709 Beyoncé and Jay-Z in The Louvre. 1015 00:49:04,792 --> 00:49:07,834 It's important when they know that P. Diddy 1016 00:49:07,917 --> 00:49:11,291 has acquired a Kerry James Marshall. 1017 00:49:11,375 --> 00:49:15,375 They see the people that they celebrate and admire doing that, 1018 00:49:15,458 --> 00:49:17,709 and hopefully, that is an imprinting. 1019 00:49:17,792 --> 00:49:21,208 Art is to be collected. It is to be lived with. 1020 00:49:21,291 --> 00:49:23,750 It's part of a quality of life. 1021 00:49:23,834 --> 00:49:26,792 The collectors, or the patrons, or supporters 1022 00:49:26,875 --> 00:49:30,667 of really good art, really have to have a kind of a vision. 1023 00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:33,166 And have to have a kind of a mindset that says, 1024 00:49:33,250 --> 00:49:36,667 "I want to engage with something that-- that may not be 1025 00:49:36,750 --> 00:49:39,000 universally appreciated or loved, 1026 00:49:39,083 --> 00:49:41,625 but I see power in that, I see potential in." 1027 00:49:41,709 --> 00:49:45,125 I'm always grateful that people collect my work, um, 1028 00:49:45,208 --> 00:49:48,875 but I'm also grateful when people give museums, 1029 00:49:48,959 --> 00:49:54,625 institutions, funds to bring that work into public collections. 1030 00:49:54,709 --> 00:49:58,750 Because that's the way that, you know, I, as a young artist, 1031 00:49:58,834 --> 00:49:59,917 got to see the work. 1032 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,542 Not in people's houses, but in museums, you know. 1033 00:50:03,625 --> 00:50:06,333 So I think its super important that Black collectors, 1034 00:50:06,417 --> 00:50:10,333 or any collectors really, think about public institutions. 1035 00:50:10,417 --> 00:50:12,750 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1036 00:50:15,083 --> 00:50:17,000 FRED WILSON: I go into an institution 1037 00:50:17,083 --> 00:50:20,000 and just absorb that place. 1038 00:50:20,083 --> 00:50:22,709 Uh, and for me, it's about looking at everything 1039 00:50:22,792 --> 00:50:23,875 and talking to everybody. 1040 00:50:23,959 --> 00:50:25,792 I look at their collections as much as I can, 1041 00:50:25,875 --> 00:50:29,583 and I talk to everybody from the, you know, the maintenance 1042 00:50:29,667 --> 00:50:31,333 to the chairman of the board. 1043 00:50:31,417 --> 00:50:34,875 It's often not what anyone says specifically, in-- 1044 00:50:34,959 --> 00:50:37,291 in conversation, it's what they don't say, 1045 00:50:37,375 --> 00:50:39,875 that gives me some, you know, 1046 00:50:39,959 --> 00:50:42,166 ideas about what's going on in the museum 1047 00:50:42,250 --> 00:50:44,834 that creates the image that the public sees. 1048 00:50:44,917 --> 00:50:47,083 I'm just using the museum as my palette, basically. 1049 00:50:47,166 --> 00:50:48,417 I usually have a notebook 1050 00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:52,542 and I just write down things during the period of research. 1051 00:50:52,625 --> 00:50:55,208 It's, you know, things that I see, that I want to see again, 1052 00:50:55,291 --> 00:50:56,792 objects, images. 1053 00:50:56,875 --> 00:50:59,667 And so, from that, I build the exhibition. 1054 00:50:59,750 --> 00:51:01,542 What you see or view is one thing 1055 00:51:01,625 --> 00:51:04,041 but what people have in storage... 1056 00:51:04,125 --> 00:51:05,709 you know, can be entirely different. 1057 00:51:05,792 --> 00:51:07,125 It brings up questions. 1058 00:51:07,208 --> 00:51:10,166 Whereas the public only sees what is created for them 1059 00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:13,083 and those-- those kind of incongruities 1060 00:51:13,166 --> 00:51:15,709 are all smoothed out. 1061 00:51:15,792 --> 00:51:18,333 And I'm seeing what's not being discussed, 1062 00:51:18,417 --> 00:51:20,875 that may not be of interest to the curator 1063 00:51:20,959 --> 00:51:22,500 or part of their scholarship. 1064 00:51:22,583 --> 00:51:25,208 It's the underbelly, it's what the museum-- It is, 1065 00:51:25,291 --> 00:51:28,000 but it is not what they're-- they're putting out to the public. 1066 00:51:28,083 --> 00:51:32,291 Museums now understand that they need to tell a counternarrative 1067 00:51:32,375 --> 00:51:35,417 about American life and about Black art. 1068 00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:38,583 They need to correct what stories haven't been told 1069 00:51:38,667 --> 00:51:40,500 through their collecting practices. 1070 00:51:40,583 --> 00:51:42,083 Through the displays that-- 1071 00:51:42,166 --> 00:51:44,250 Through the exhibitions that they've had. 1072 00:51:44,333 --> 00:51:47,500 ♪ (HIP HOP MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1073 00:51:47,583 --> 00:51:50,333 KEHINDE WILEY: In 1994, I was 17 years old 1074 00:51:50,417 --> 00:51:53,500 and I see Thelma Golden's Black Male exhibition. 1075 00:51:53,583 --> 00:51:55,250 And it was life changing. 1076 00:51:55,333 --> 00:51:58,375 Here for the first time, you're seeing Black masculinity 1077 00:51:58,458 --> 00:52:01,250 not as something on television that's menacing, 1078 00:52:01,333 --> 00:52:02,458 or at arm's length, 1079 00:52:02,542 --> 00:52:05,000 but rather artists embracing it as the subject matter. 1080 00:52:05,083 --> 00:52:06,750 Another color on their palette. 1081 00:52:06,834 --> 00:52:08,041 It was mind blowing. 1082 00:52:08,125 --> 00:52:09,917 An exhibition that really tore down 1083 00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,291 the meaning of the Black body itself. 1084 00:52:12,375 --> 00:52:15,709 GLENN LIGON: Thelma asked me to participate in that show 1085 00:52:15,792 --> 00:52:18,250 at the Whitney. It was all kinds of artists 1086 00:52:18,333 --> 00:52:21,208 of all races, all genders, who were dealing with 1087 00:52:21,291 --> 00:52:24,041 Black muscularity as a subject matter. 1088 00:52:24,125 --> 00:52:27,667 It was really, really engaged with notions of identity, 1089 00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:31,625 but in a provocative way around gender and sexuality 1090 00:52:31,709 --> 00:52:36,083 and race in this kind of surreal melding and-- and fusion. 1091 00:52:36,166 --> 00:52:39,375 DAVID: There had been all of this talk about 1092 00:52:39,458 --> 00:52:42,625 a negative aspect of Black lifestyle, 1093 00:52:42,709 --> 00:52:44,709 and especially amongst men. 1094 00:52:44,792 --> 00:52:46,959 When an exhibition was put together 1095 00:52:47,041 --> 00:52:52,041 which represented so much of what people did not know... 1096 00:52:52,125 --> 00:52:56,083 about the African American male, it was a shock. 1097 00:52:56,166 --> 00:52:57,583 And yet it was a revelation, 1098 00:52:57,667 --> 00:52:59,875 because nothing like that had been presented 1099 00:52:59,959 --> 00:53:01,500 in the museum before. 1100 00:53:01,583 --> 00:53:04,667 To show the nuances, the beauty, 1101 00:53:04,750 --> 00:53:07,333 the allure and loathing, if you will, 1102 00:53:07,417 --> 00:53:08,959 that comes with the Black male body 1103 00:53:09,041 --> 00:53:10,917 in particular... 1104 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,250 was very important to put that into the larger conversation. 1105 00:53:16,333 --> 00:53:18,458 The fears of otherness are so played out 1106 00:53:18,542 --> 00:53:21,333 most often around this notion of Black masculinity, 1107 00:53:21,417 --> 00:53:24,000 that I think it's very important that in looking at it, 1108 00:53:24,083 --> 00:53:29,333 we understand much of what comes to be racism or even sexism 1109 00:53:29,417 --> 00:53:32,458 or even the homophobia that exists in this culture. 1110 00:53:32,542 --> 00:53:34,041 MAURICE: I think what a lot of people 1111 00:53:34,125 --> 00:53:36,333 don't remember, even folks in the art world, 1112 00:53:36,417 --> 00:53:40,041 is that back in the early 90s, it was still very difficult 1113 00:53:40,125 --> 00:53:44,000 to, uh, pull off a show with African American content 1114 00:53:44,083 --> 00:53:46,208 at a mainstream art museum 1115 00:53:46,291 --> 00:53:48,458 mostly because the curators in that museum 1116 00:53:48,542 --> 00:53:49,542 weren't interested 1117 00:53:49,625 --> 00:53:52,125 or, in the case of something like Black Male, 1118 00:53:52,208 --> 00:53:55,125 it would engender controversy in a very mixed audience. 1119 00:53:55,208 --> 00:53:58,625 It's an historical show. I mean, it's a show that now has been, you know, 1120 00:53:58,709 --> 00:54:00,834 in hindsight considered highly historical 1121 00:54:00,917 --> 00:54:04,208 despite the reaction, you know, at the time. 1122 00:54:04,291 --> 00:54:07,291 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1123 00:54:17,500 --> 00:54:21,333 There was a Lyle Ashton Harris picture in the tutu, 1124 00:54:21,417 --> 00:54:24,959 which was incredibly disturbing at the time 1125 00:54:25,041 --> 00:54:26,750 and alluring at once. 1126 00:54:26,834 --> 00:54:29,875 It-- It looked at the body as a site of strength. 1127 00:54:29,959 --> 00:54:32,583 It looked at masculinity as a site of performance. 1128 00:54:32,667 --> 00:54:35,583 It looked at femininity as-- as an invention. 1129 00:54:35,667 --> 00:54:38,208 And it really threw open this question of, 1130 00:54:38,291 --> 00:54:41,917 how does choice become the central role of the artist? 1131 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,333 I think people were shocked, um, 1132 00:54:44,417 --> 00:54:48,875 by just the-- Maybe the boldness and the rawness of the works. 1133 00:54:48,959 --> 00:54:50,417 It's speaking your truth. 1134 00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:53,709 It's not so much trying to make the work stand out, 1135 00:54:53,792 --> 00:54:58,458 as opposed to trusting your process, your ideas, 1136 00:54:58,542 --> 00:55:00,709 and your inner guidance. 1137 00:55:00,792 --> 00:55:03,458 I think, in retrospect, people look back at Black Male, 1138 00:55:03,542 --> 00:55:05,834 and realized that Thelma was really on to something. 1139 00:55:05,917 --> 00:55:09,125 And what came out of it was a really definitive work 1140 00:55:09,208 --> 00:55:13,417 on the meaning of Blackness and maleness in visual culture. 1141 00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:14,583 ♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪ 1142 00:55:14,667 --> 00:55:17,125 MAURICE: In a survey of major American museums, 1143 00:55:17,208 --> 00:55:20,959 it was determined that 85 percent of artists 1144 00:55:21,041 --> 00:55:24,458 in major American art museum collections are white. 1145 00:55:24,542 --> 00:55:27,291 If you break down the number of artists of color 1146 00:55:27,375 --> 00:55:31,125 in those collections, it's 1.2 percent Black. 1147 00:55:31,208 --> 00:55:34,375 If the person sitting at the table in a curatorial meeting, 1148 00:55:34,458 --> 00:55:37,333 or the people sitting at that table are all white, 1149 00:55:37,417 --> 00:55:38,625 you're gonna have a problem. 1150 00:55:38,709 --> 00:55:40,625 You're gonna have a problem of interpretation. 1151 00:55:40,709 --> 00:55:42,834 You're gonna have a problem in terms of trying to figure out 1152 00:55:42,917 --> 00:55:44,417 what you're doing right or wrong, 1153 00:55:44,500 --> 00:55:46,333 and most importantly, you're gonna have a problem 1154 00:55:46,417 --> 00:55:49,166 in terms of the work you're gonna select. 1155 00:55:49,250 --> 00:55:51,667 If all of the critics writing are white, 1156 00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:54,208 the same problem exists... 1157 00:55:54,291 --> 00:55:58,166 until the institutions become more diverse. 1158 00:55:58,250 --> 00:56:00,000 And it's happening. 1159 00:56:00,083 --> 00:56:03,875 You're beginning to see young brilliant curators of color 1160 00:56:03,959 --> 00:56:06,750 assume pretty important roles in American museums. 1161 00:56:06,834 --> 00:56:10,000 But until that happens in a widespread way... 1162 00:56:10,083 --> 00:56:16,709 and-- or until white critics and curators and journalists 1163 00:56:17,417 --> 00:56:19,125 look into themselves... 1164 00:56:20,709 --> 00:56:22,667 research the world around them, 1165 00:56:22,750 --> 00:56:25,125 and look into the past openly and honestly 1166 00:56:25,208 --> 00:56:28,458 until they change, until they're open minded, 1167 00:56:28,542 --> 00:56:30,917 it's not gonna change as fast as it needs to. 1168 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,500 I feel like it is important for us to own our own culture 1169 00:56:33,583 --> 00:56:35,709 as African Americans, because it is our culture. 1170 00:56:35,792 --> 00:56:38,792 And we hate the way people-- other people tell our story. 1171 00:56:38,875 --> 00:56:40,959 There's always flaws in it because they didn't live in it. 1172 00:56:41,041 --> 00:56:44,208 Most of the-- the primary institutions, 1173 00:56:44,291 --> 00:56:48,125 most of the cultural institutions have been behind. 1174 00:56:48,208 --> 00:56:51,583 They've been behind in film. They've been behind in TV. 1175 00:56:51,667 --> 00:56:54,083 They've been behind in popular culture generally. 1176 00:56:54,166 --> 00:56:56,583 They've been behind in, you know, in museums 1177 00:56:56,667 --> 00:56:58,375 and sort of cultural institutions. 1178 00:56:58,458 --> 00:56:59,834 They're simply behind. 1179 00:56:59,917 --> 00:57:01,083 There are more exhibitions 1180 00:57:01,166 --> 00:57:03,583 featuring African American artists, 1181 00:57:03,667 --> 00:57:04,542 Black artists, 1182 00:57:04,625 --> 00:57:06,709 whether they're African American or not. 1183 00:57:06,792 --> 00:57:10,583 Um, there are more exhibitions featuring women. 1184 00:57:10,667 --> 00:57:12,333 Those are exhibitions. 1185 00:57:12,417 --> 00:57:15,959 They don't always translate into acquisitions. 1186 00:57:16,041 --> 00:57:18,083 I always, when I go around to museums 1187 00:57:18,166 --> 00:57:19,875 and I see the work of Black artists up, 1188 00:57:19,959 --> 00:57:23,041 I do this little game where I look at the wall label 1189 00:57:23,125 --> 00:57:24,542 and look at the acquisition dates. 1190 00:57:24,625 --> 00:57:27,959 And when I look at those dates, I find in a lot of museums 1191 00:57:28,041 --> 00:57:29,458 that they're very recent. 1192 00:57:29,542 --> 00:57:32,917 So I think institutions do have a long way to go 1193 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,250 in terms of catching up. 1194 00:57:34,333 --> 00:57:37,500 Now I guarantee you they're selling off pieces 1195 00:57:37,583 --> 00:57:39,375 to get some color in those museums 1196 00:57:39,458 --> 00:57:40,667 to balance that scale. 1197 00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:43,917 So it is only a matter of time that greatness, uh, 1198 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,291 will shine through. 1199 00:57:45,375 --> 00:57:47,041 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1200 00:57:55,542 --> 00:57:57,000 ♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪ 1201 00:57:57,083 --> 00:57:58,542 MARY: We love heroes. 1202 00:57:58,625 --> 00:58:01,125 We love celebrities. We love "the one." 1203 00:58:01,208 --> 00:58:03,792 It is just part of our culture. 1204 00:58:03,875 --> 00:58:05,875 It's-- It's our culture in music. 1205 00:58:05,959 --> 00:58:08,834 It's our culture in visual arts. 1206 00:58:08,917 --> 00:58:11,125 It's our political culture. 1207 00:58:11,208 --> 00:58:13,917 It-- You know-- We just-- We just like superheroes. 1208 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,083 RICHARD J. POWELL: Jean Michel Basquiat emerges, uh, in the art world 1209 00:58:18,166 --> 00:58:19,875 in the early 1980s. 1210 00:58:19,959 --> 00:58:23,083 This was a moment where the art world was kind of-- 1211 00:58:23,166 --> 00:58:24,208 they were kind of hungry 1212 00:58:24,291 --> 00:58:26,417 for something fresh, something exciting, 1213 00:58:26,500 --> 00:58:29,500 something different, something youthful. 1214 00:58:29,583 --> 00:58:33,166 He is also doing work that really kind of grabs 1215 00:58:33,250 --> 00:58:35,917 at certain kind of notions of the street, 1216 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,333 and of the urban decline that we're all experiencing 1217 00:58:39,417 --> 00:58:41,166 towards the end of the 20th century. 1218 00:58:41,250 --> 00:58:43,458 I think he changed the conversation in a big way. 1219 00:58:43,542 --> 00:58:45,834 He just got a lot of publicity, uh, 1220 00:58:45,917 --> 00:58:49,667 from being around the right people at that time. 1221 00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:54,166 The meteoric rise of his career was un-- unprecedented for-- 1222 00:58:54,250 --> 00:58:55,834 In terms of Black visual artist. 1223 00:58:55,917 --> 00:58:57,041 And this is also the moment 1224 00:58:57,125 --> 00:58:58,667 when many of these younger artists, 1225 00:58:58,750 --> 00:59:01,417 um, like Glenn Ligon, and Lorna Simpson, 1226 00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:03,125 and Kara Walker are in art school. 1227 00:59:03,208 --> 00:59:06,000 And so by the time we get to the early 1990s, 1228 00:59:06,083 --> 00:59:10,125 when they explode, I think that Basquiat's legacy 1229 00:59:10,208 --> 00:59:13,709 and his-- and the message he sends to the art world 1230 00:59:13,792 --> 00:59:16,875 is something that they are the beneficiaries of. 1231 00:59:16,959 --> 00:59:20,458 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1232 00:59:23,834 --> 00:59:25,709 MARY: I remember distinctly going 1233 00:59:25,792 --> 00:59:30,166 to the Whitney to see a Kara Walker exhibition. 1234 00:59:30,250 --> 00:59:31,291 I was struck by several things. 1235 00:59:31,375 --> 00:59:33,458 One, she has such an incredible mastery 1236 00:59:33,542 --> 00:59:36,125 of that medium of the silhouettes. 1237 00:59:36,208 --> 00:59:40,917 And she has that, um, attentiveness to her materials 1238 00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,625 and-- and representation, and the sense of space, 1239 00:59:43,709 --> 00:59:46,667 and design, and dramatic scenario. 1240 00:59:47,834 --> 00:59:51,166 KARA WALKER: The cut-outs I started doing 1241 00:59:51,250 --> 00:59:54,500 partly as an antidote to painting. 1242 00:59:54,583 --> 00:59:58,250 Painting was too readily recognized, 1243 00:59:58,333 --> 01:00:03,166 too quick from the hand, too, um, gestural, 1244 01:00:03,250 --> 01:00:05,792 too personality-laden perhaps. 1245 01:00:05,875 --> 01:00:10,083 And I wanted to distance myself from the idea 1246 01:00:10,166 --> 01:00:13,834 that this was me talking, but that it was a-- a kind of, 1247 01:00:13,917 --> 01:00:18,166 uh, a masked character talking about masked characters. 1248 01:00:19,834 --> 01:00:21,333 SARAH: Kara Walker is a crucible 1249 01:00:21,417 --> 01:00:23,583 for the field of African American art. 1250 01:00:23,667 --> 01:00:26,583 She's a crucible for the field of modernism. 1251 01:00:26,667 --> 01:00:30,458 You know, I have an enormous amount of respect for her willingness 1252 01:00:30,542 --> 01:00:34,333 to go into that kind of underbelly 1253 01:00:34,417 --> 01:00:38,625 of the neo-Confederate narrative in American culture, 1254 01:00:38,709 --> 01:00:44,417 and bring it to our attention through forms that disturb, 1255 01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:48,500 that command and that reshape our understanding 1256 01:00:48,583 --> 01:00:49,875 about Black life 1257 01:00:49,959 --> 01:00:52,500 and-- and white Americans in this country. 1258 01:00:52,583 --> 01:00:55,625 Love the work. Hate the work. 1259 01:00:55,709 --> 01:00:58,291 You have to reckon with the work. 1260 01:00:58,375 --> 01:00:59,959 If you don't, you're not reckoning 1261 01:01:00,041 --> 01:01:03,125 with the history of this country, effectively. 1262 01:01:03,208 --> 01:01:06,041 VALERIE: I think what people push against... 1263 01:01:06,959 --> 01:01:08,792 is a sense of irreverence 1264 01:01:08,875 --> 01:01:13,166 about the moment or time and space 1265 01:01:13,250 --> 01:01:15,166 where Africans were enslaved. 1266 01:01:15,250 --> 01:01:19,250 I think they push against what they see is the perversity... 1267 01:01:20,375 --> 01:01:24,834 sexual perversity, degradation of Black bodies 1268 01:01:24,917 --> 01:01:27,917 or complicitness in that perversity 1269 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,333 that she brings to bear. 1270 01:01:29,417 --> 01:01:32,917 So to pull on that history and to play upon that history 1271 01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:34,458 is something that she does, 1272 01:01:34,542 --> 01:01:38,375 much to the chagrin of the Black community. 1273 01:01:39,917 --> 01:01:42,208 KARA: I'm not trying to, like, 1274 01:01:42,291 --> 01:01:44,625 drop a bomb on the public necessarily, 1275 01:01:44,709 --> 01:01:47,500 but I-- sometimes I think the work does have that impact. 1276 01:01:47,583 --> 01:01:51,250 My approach initially was, um... 1277 01:01:52,083 --> 01:01:53,792 decidedly tongue in cheek. 1278 01:01:53,875 --> 01:01:56,208 Your reality, my reality. 1279 01:01:56,291 --> 01:02:01,542 My fantasy, my fear, my humanity, my clownishness, 1280 01:02:01,625 --> 01:02:04,750 all of that has to kind of come to bear. 1281 01:02:04,834 --> 01:02:06,709 There's all these narrative tropes, 1282 01:02:06,792 --> 01:02:10,417 stereotypes, mythologies that we live with. 1283 01:02:10,500 --> 01:02:12,291 Some are very overt. 1284 01:02:12,375 --> 01:02:15,542 Some are parading around in broad daylight. 1285 01:02:15,625 --> 01:02:18,250 Some are unconscious fantasies, 1286 01:02:18,333 --> 01:02:21,709 fears, wishes, loathings, uh, anxieties. 1287 01:02:21,792 --> 01:02:24,250 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1288 01:02:26,834 --> 01:02:31,041 KARA: In 2013, I was approached to do a public art project 1289 01:02:31,125 --> 01:02:32,834 in the Domino Sugar factory. 1290 01:02:32,917 --> 01:02:35,750 This old, derelict plant on the waterfront. 1291 01:02:35,834 --> 01:02:37,250 It was a good collaboration, 1292 01:02:37,333 --> 01:02:39,667 and the best kind of collaboration is the kind 1293 01:02:39,750 --> 01:02:41,041 where an organization says, 1294 01:02:41,125 --> 01:02:43,792 "We really wanna support what artists do. 1295 01:02:43,875 --> 01:02:45,000 What do you wanna do?" 1296 01:02:45,083 --> 01:02:47,291 And you say, "I want to build a 40-foot sphinx... 1297 01:02:48,333 --> 01:02:49,917 made out of sugar." 1298 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,333 The scale was determined by the space. 1299 01:02:52,417 --> 01:02:56,458 The sphinx became a-- a kind of monumental marker. 1300 01:02:58,667 --> 01:03:01,250 It was such a new way of working and collaborating 1301 01:03:01,333 --> 01:03:04,709 and working with the team and working three-dimensionally. 1302 01:03:05,917 --> 01:03:09,208 I'm always interested in the challenge of working, uh, 1303 01:03:09,291 --> 01:03:10,583 in, sort of, public space 1304 01:03:10,667 --> 01:03:13,375 and the challenge being new audiences for the work. 1305 01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,542 I wanted to create a compelling space to enter. 1306 01:03:21,375 --> 01:03:24,000 I got a longer historical lens to view sugar production 1307 01:03:24,083 --> 01:03:26,583 that enslaved African people who were commodified 1308 01:03:26,667 --> 01:03:31,375 and then segregated, excluded, oppressed, destroyed. 1309 01:03:31,458 --> 01:03:34,083 It brings a lot of feeling forward. 1310 01:03:34,166 --> 01:03:39,500 I think that my approach in making art doesn't involve, um-- 1311 01:03:39,583 --> 01:03:41,792 Or doesn't actually know what the rules are 1312 01:03:41,875 --> 01:03:43,583 of what can and can't be said. 1313 01:03:43,667 --> 01:03:46,041 "She hasn't paid her dues." 1314 01:03:46,125 --> 01:03:47,625 "She doesn't know her history." 1315 01:03:47,709 --> 01:03:50,000 "She's selling us downriver." 1316 01:03:50,083 --> 01:03:52,959 Um, I mean, those are just phrases I heard. 1317 01:03:53,041 --> 01:03:56,208 "She must hate Black people as much as she hates herself." 1318 01:03:58,041 --> 01:04:00,125 The experience of white America 1319 01:04:00,208 --> 01:04:02,709 and Black America is very different. 1320 01:04:02,792 --> 01:04:04,667 Because white America very often will look at this 1321 01:04:04,750 --> 01:04:06,625 and find it incredibly entertaining. 1322 01:04:06,709 --> 01:04:11,583 And Black America will look at it and-- and almost, uh, 1323 01:04:11,667 --> 01:04:15,709 cringe at the pain that's being depicted. 1324 01:04:15,792 --> 01:04:19,250 And-- And that's, in and of itself, very telling. 1325 01:04:20,750 --> 01:04:23,834 I think there is something about the Black community 1326 01:04:23,917 --> 01:04:25,625 that feels we have ownership 1327 01:04:25,709 --> 01:04:27,125 of these stories 1328 01:04:27,208 --> 01:04:28,750 because they come out of us. 1329 01:04:28,834 --> 01:04:32,333 They come through us. They're about us. 1330 01:04:32,417 --> 01:04:35,625 But again, we're not a monolith either. 1331 01:04:35,709 --> 01:04:40,208 And for, um, moments where there were enslaved Africans, 1332 01:04:40,291 --> 01:04:41,792 there were also freed Africans. 1333 01:04:41,875 --> 01:04:46,250 We're a composite of many different histories coming together. 1334 01:04:46,333 --> 01:04:52,750 So, to say that this is a monolithic reaction... 1335 01:04:52,834 --> 01:04:58,250 to artwork, I think, is, at best, skewed. 1336 01:04:59,250 --> 01:05:01,917 And then to say that that relationship 1337 01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,583 of how people react should only be cast in white, 1338 01:05:05,667 --> 01:05:07,250 which is not a monolith, 1339 01:05:07,333 --> 01:05:10,166 and black, which is not a monolith, 1340 01:05:10,250 --> 01:05:12,333 is also a bit skewed. 1341 01:05:12,417 --> 01:05:14,333 DAVID: There are those who feel that 1342 01:05:14,417 --> 01:05:16,667 Kara represents certain aspects 1343 01:05:16,750 --> 01:05:21,750 of our history that is being negatively portrayed in her art. 1344 01:05:21,834 --> 01:05:23,917 Be that as it may, 1345 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,583 you can't say to an artist, 1346 01:05:26,667 --> 01:05:30,291 "You have the freedom to do whatever you want to, 1347 01:05:31,333 --> 01:05:35,250 however, you can't do such-and-such a thing. 1348 01:05:35,333 --> 01:05:39,125 I won't let you do this. I won't let you do that." 1349 01:05:39,208 --> 01:05:42,417 Either you have the freedom to do it or you don't. 1350 01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:44,959 She put herself out there, or her work was put out there, 1351 01:05:45,041 --> 01:05:46,625 when she was very young. 1352 01:05:46,709 --> 01:05:48,917 It was very hard to digest. 1353 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,625 Everybody attacked her, 1354 01:05:50,709 --> 01:05:53,125 and then some people totally embraced her. 1355 01:05:53,208 --> 01:05:54,959 It must have been very confusing. 1356 01:05:55,041 --> 01:05:58,000 But she stayed with her program, and she's still on her program, 1357 01:05:58,083 --> 01:06:00,083 and, to me, that's a huge inspiration. 1358 01:06:00,166 --> 01:06:03,917 It's not always about being appreciated and liked. 1359 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,792 Sometimes it's being about, you know, about being reviled 1360 01:06:07,875 --> 01:06:11,625 and, um, criticized. 1361 01:06:11,709 --> 01:06:15,000 But it's that activity that makes the art important. 1362 01:06:15,083 --> 01:06:20,750 And I think she's shown extreme courage and, um... 1363 01:06:20,834 --> 01:06:24,542 strength in doing her work. So, to me, that's inspirational. 1364 01:06:25,250 --> 01:06:28,208 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1365 01:06:31,583 --> 01:06:33,125 CARRIE MAE WEEMS: When I came to New York 1366 01:06:33,208 --> 01:06:34,834 in the 60s, I was very young. 1367 01:06:34,917 --> 01:06:39,041 I was moving between San Francisco and New York. 1368 01:06:39,125 --> 01:06:42,500 And I discovered the Studio Museum fairly early. 1369 01:06:42,583 --> 01:06:44,875 Everything happened there. It was like-- It was a-- 1370 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,542 It was a focal point for anybody that was interested in culture. 1371 01:06:49,625 --> 01:06:52,959 And so I became, sort of, instantly a part 1372 01:06:53,041 --> 01:06:54,291 of that group and wanted to be 1373 01:06:54,375 --> 01:06:57,834 a part of that-- that group of-- of intellectuals 1374 01:06:57,917 --> 01:06:59,834 and artists asking questions 1375 01:06:59,917 --> 01:07:02,500 about the moment in which we lived. 1376 01:07:02,583 --> 01:07:05,208 Shortly after leaving Yale, I was accepted to become 1377 01:07:05,291 --> 01:07:07,417 the artist in residence at the Studio Museum in Harlem, 1378 01:07:07,500 --> 01:07:09,709 which came as a great shock to me. 1379 01:07:09,792 --> 01:07:12,667 Uh, principally because it's one of the most desired 1380 01:07:12,750 --> 01:07:14,667 artist in residencies in the world. 1381 01:07:14,750 --> 01:07:16,583 There's a stamp of approval that comes 1382 01:07:16,667 --> 01:07:19,291 from having the artist in residency 1383 01:07:19,375 --> 01:07:20,542 at the Studio Museum. 1384 01:07:20,625 --> 01:07:24,000 For Black art to thrive, it's always required spaces, 1385 01:07:24,083 --> 01:07:26,208 fellowship, community. 1386 01:07:26,291 --> 01:07:27,709 The Studio Museum has provided that 1387 01:07:27,792 --> 01:07:30,208 when really no other institution did. 1388 01:07:30,291 --> 01:07:31,875 JORDAN: Knowing all the people 1389 01:07:31,959 --> 01:07:33,625 who had come through the Studio Museum 1390 01:07:33,709 --> 01:07:35,041 in Harlem program, 1391 01:07:35,125 --> 01:07:36,875 being a part of that space, 1392 01:07:36,959 --> 01:07:40,875 that is clearly-- There's magic that must exist there. 1393 01:07:40,959 --> 01:07:42,625 Uh, knowing what that magic was, 1394 01:07:42,709 --> 01:07:44,583 was something I wanted to be a part of. 1395 01:07:44,667 --> 01:07:47,750 I knew that that was a moment of real, 1396 01:07:47,834 --> 01:07:50,250 potential change in my life. 1397 01:07:52,125 --> 01:07:54,083 ♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1398 01:07:57,625 --> 01:08:01,125 JORDAN: This is a painting that I am working on currently. 1399 01:08:02,333 --> 01:08:05,000 I spend time looking at the image and really trying 1400 01:08:05,083 --> 01:08:09,333 to parse out from it an emotion or sense of feeling 1401 01:08:09,417 --> 01:08:13,333 that I think is going to be the aura of the painting as a whole. 1402 01:08:16,834 --> 01:08:20,375 I'm pulling colors that I think are most vibrant 1403 01:08:20,458 --> 01:08:22,000 or most important that I want to make sure 1404 01:08:22,083 --> 01:08:24,500 that I include in the painting. 1405 01:08:24,583 --> 01:08:27,500 As it comes to life, I get really excited. 1406 01:08:28,667 --> 01:08:31,875 I always start with their faces and their eyes. 1407 01:08:31,959 --> 01:08:35,917 Um, it's an opportunity to really connect with them. 1408 01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:38,083 And then I can make everything else happen 1409 01:08:38,166 --> 01:08:39,458 once I've done that. 1410 01:08:41,083 --> 01:08:42,959 BERNARD: I mean, what can I say about Jordan? 1411 01:08:43,041 --> 01:08:44,000 She's amazing. 1412 01:08:44,083 --> 01:08:46,041 You know, she is working in the tradition 1413 01:08:46,125 --> 01:08:48,041 of African American portraiture. 1414 01:08:48,125 --> 01:08:50,125 You know, in a realist tradition. 1415 01:08:50,208 --> 01:08:52,834 But she's bringing to it her own unique perspective 1416 01:08:52,917 --> 01:08:55,959 as a woman and, I think, as a young person also, 1417 01:08:56,041 --> 01:08:59,125 depicting young people today in their everyday realities 1418 01:08:59,208 --> 01:09:01,000 in-- in their everyday lives. 1419 01:09:04,250 --> 01:09:05,667 JORDAN: I made the decision 1420 01:09:05,750 --> 01:09:08,875 to explicitly represent Black men and boys, 1421 01:09:08,959 --> 01:09:11,625 in an effort to push against the narratives 1422 01:09:11,709 --> 01:09:13,792 that I felt were kind of dominating 1423 01:09:13,875 --> 01:09:15,250 the public sphere at that time. 1424 01:09:15,333 --> 01:09:20,250 And my, um, initial decision in representing them nude 1425 01:09:20,333 --> 01:09:23,917 was featuring Black men, um, centered in their homes, 1426 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,250 trying to capture them in their most vulnerable 1427 01:09:26,333 --> 01:09:27,667 and intimate spaces. 1428 01:09:27,750 --> 01:09:29,125 ♪ (FUNKY MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1429 01:09:29,208 --> 01:09:31,208 JORDAN: I wanted to treat the Black body 1430 01:09:31,291 --> 01:09:36,000 with, um, as much care and attention as possible. 1431 01:09:36,083 --> 01:09:37,417 When I started to decide 1432 01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:39,333 that I wanted to make these paintings, 1433 01:09:39,417 --> 01:09:40,709 the scale was really important. 1434 01:09:40,792 --> 01:09:43,500 I wanted them to feel like they could step out of the canvas 1435 01:09:43,583 --> 01:09:46,625 and be participants in our day-to-day lives. 1436 01:09:47,417 --> 01:09:48,875 ♪ (FUNKY MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪ 1437 01:09:50,083 --> 01:09:52,125 JORDAN: I also wanted them to feel like they're pushing 1438 01:09:52,208 --> 01:09:55,458 against the confines of the canvas itself. 1439 01:09:59,041 --> 01:10:02,000 When I was a resident at the Studio Museum in Harlem, 1440 01:10:02,083 --> 01:10:04,959 I had the opportunity to have a studio visit with Thelma. 1441 01:10:05,041 --> 01:10:09,458 And she came into my studio and she, uh, made a comment 1442 01:10:09,542 --> 01:10:12,709 that my work reminded her of landscape painting. 1443 01:10:12,792 --> 01:10:15,875 And I remember thinking that that felt very far fetched 1444 01:10:15,959 --> 01:10:17,667 and-- and distant from what it was 1445 01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:19,959 that I was identifying around this work. 1446 01:10:20,041 --> 01:10:21,542 It was like, "I'm a portrait painter," 1447 01:10:21,625 --> 01:10:25,166 was probably how I was, um, recognizing myself. 1448 01:10:27,125 --> 01:10:29,041 And the fact that she said landscape 1449 01:10:29,125 --> 01:10:31,875 really resonated over time, 1450 01:10:31,959 --> 01:10:34,208 specifically thinking about the landscape 1451 01:10:34,291 --> 01:10:37,542 in the full breadth of the environment that we occupy, 1452 01:10:37,625 --> 01:10:39,750 and the spaces that we move throughout. 1453 01:10:42,917 --> 01:10:45,000 I look at my body of work and I see 1454 01:10:45,083 --> 01:10:47,291 a scrapbook of my life, 1455 01:10:47,375 --> 01:10:49,709 that there are various moments in time 1456 01:10:49,792 --> 01:10:51,959 where I've been somewhere and met someone 1457 01:10:52,041 --> 01:10:55,834 and then they've been invited to participate in my practice. 1458 01:10:56,959 --> 01:11:00,917 Being at the Studio Museum in Harlem brought me home. 1459 01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,458 All the resources within that institution 1460 01:11:03,542 --> 01:11:05,959 would be at my fingertips, 1461 01:11:06,041 --> 01:11:09,583 and the prospect of that I knew was immense. 1462 01:11:09,667 --> 01:11:11,041 There's an oasis for me there, 1463 01:11:11,125 --> 01:11:12,750 and a place to always go back to. 1464 01:11:12,834 --> 01:11:15,083 There is a real community of people who care about me, 1465 01:11:15,166 --> 01:11:18,125 still, and are invested in me. 1466 01:11:18,208 --> 01:11:20,875 And that investment can take you, you know, 1467 01:11:20,959 --> 01:11:22,834 beyond anything you ever imagine, 1468 01:11:22,917 --> 01:11:26,166 when other people believe in you from the beginning. 1469 01:11:26,250 --> 01:11:29,125 SARAH: The Studio Museum has created 1470 01:11:29,208 --> 01:11:31,500 this extraordinary program, called 1471 01:11:31,583 --> 01:11:33,041 the Artist in Residency Program. 1472 01:11:33,125 --> 01:11:36,667 It gives artists studio space, time, a community 1473 01:11:36,750 --> 01:11:39,083 an exhibition of their work at the end. 1474 01:11:39,166 --> 01:11:40,792 Mentorship along the way. 1475 01:11:40,875 --> 01:11:42,917 From that, we have some of our-- 1476 01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,875 What you might call "art stars" today. 1477 01:11:45,959 --> 01:11:47,250 KERRY: I was an artist in residence 1478 01:11:47,333 --> 01:11:49,125 at Studio Museum in 1985. 1479 01:11:49,208 --> 01:11:51,709 You can understand from experience, 1480 01:11:51,792 --> 01:11:53,959 the value of places like that 1481 01:11:54,041 --> 01:11:58,709 for creating what people understand to be community. 1482 01:11:59,542 --> 01:12:01,417 So it's the place where you can go 1483 01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:04,250 and if you wanna meet people who are in the art world, 1484 01:12:04,333 --> 01:12:06,542 you can only meet them at The Studio Museum. 1485 01:12:06,625 --> 01:12:07,959 That matters. 1486 01:12:08,041 --> 01:12:10,125 I mean, it matters that there's a place you can go and do that. 1487 01:12:10,208 --> 01:12:11,583 And it mattered, that there was a place 1488 01:12:11,667 --> 01:12:14,250 that was run by Black folks, that was owned by Black folks 1489 01:12:14,333 --> 01:12:16,041 in which a whole lot of people 1490 01:12:16,125 --> 01:12:18,000 who came through there were all Black folks. 1491 01:12:18,083 --> 01:12:20,500 That all still-- That mattered too... (CHUCKLES) 1492 01:12:20,583 --> 01:12:22,000 you know, it mattered. 1493 01:12:22,083 --> 01:12:24,834 The Studio Museum had always been a beacon. 1494 01:12:24,917 --> 01:12:28,208 It was one of the places that appreciated and showcased 1495 01:12:28,291 --> 01:12:31,041 our work at a very, very early point 1496 01:12:31,125 --> 01:12:32,875 in the conversation. 1497 01:12:32,959 --> 01:12:36,542 And I was very honored to be invited to New York City 1498 01:12:36,625 --> 01:12:39,041 as a Studio Museum in Harlem resident. 1499 01:12:39,125 --> 01:12:41,166 That's how I moved to New York City. 1500 01:12:41,250 --> 01:12:44,542 The people who funded the arts and who supported the arts, 1501 01:12:44,625 --> 01:12:47,875 some of them thought that what we were doing was laughable. 1502 01:12:47,959 --> 01:12:50,583 Why do you need a Black fine-arts museum? 1503 01:12:50,667 --> 01:12:53,542 You have MoMA, you have Met, you have the Guggenheim. 1504 01:12:53,625 --> 01:12:57,875 You know, why do-- why do you even need a museum? 1505 01:12:57,959 --> 01:13:00,375 So the fact that people were asking that question 1506 01:13:00,458 --> 01:13:04,709 was a clear evidence that we really did need that museum. 1507 01:13:04,792 --> 01:13:07,041 I am still at the Studio Museum. (LAUGHS) 1508 01:13:07,125 --> 01:13:11,125 I mean, assuming the Studio Museum is... 1509 01:13:11,959 --> 01:13:14,375 is still the focal point 1510 01:13:14,458 --> 01:13:17,291 of, uh, African American culture production 1511 01:13:17,375 --> 01:13:19,875 and artistic production in the country 1512 01:13:19,959 --> 01:13:22,667 if not... on the planet. 1513 01:13:22,750 --> 01:13:25,041 It is one of the most important institutions 1514 01:13:25,125 --> 01:13:26,208 that we-- that we have. 1515 01:13:26,291 --> 01:13:29,917 And what Thelma, uh, is doing there, um-- 1516 01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,667 What she's done there. 1517 01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:34,333 Uh, the way she's led the organization 1518 01:13:34,417 --> 01:13:37,709 into the 21st century is absolutely extraordinary 1519 01:13:37,792 --> 01:13:39,625 and, uh, and really important. 1520 01:13:39,709 --> 01:13:41,458 ♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1521 01:13:46,291 --> 01:13:48,041 DAVID: I don't see The Studio Museum 1522 01:13:48,125 --> 01:13:52,083 as the only place for funneling 1523 01:13:52,166 --> 01:13:54,750 Black talent into the mainstream, 1524 01:13:54,834 --> 01:13:56,750 if there is such a thing as the mainstream. 1525 01:13:56,834 --> 01:14:00,375 I think it's one of the major places. 1526 01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,125 I think Black colleges and universities 1527 01:14:04,208 --> 01:14:07,250 still play an important role 1528 01:14:07,333 --> 01:14:11,083 in that kind of definition of who one becomes as an artist. 1529 01:14:11,166 --> 01:14:14,083 Without the work of historically Black colleges and universities, 1530 01:14:14,166 --> 01:14:17,083 we wouldn't have a repository of African American art 1531 01:14:17,166 --> 01:14:18,291 that we could draw from. 1532 01:14:19,166 --> 01:14:21,834 DAVID: The HBCUs have not been given 1533 01:14:21,917 --> 01:14:23,667 the credit that they are due. 1534 01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:29,291 When nobody else was out there championing in these artists, 1535 01:14:29,375 --> 01:14:34,250 HBCUs were there claiming them, 1536 01:14:34,333 --> 01:14:38,125 showcasing them, putting them up on the wall, 1537 01:14:38,208 --> 01:14:39,834 teaching about them. 1538 01:14:39,917 --> 01:14:41,875 RUJEKO HOCKLEY: When we think of Clark Atlanta, 1539 01:14:41,959 --> 01:14:43,083 when we think of Spelman, 1540 01:14:43,166 --> 01:14:44,959 when we think of Fisk University, 1541 01:14:45,041 --> 01:14:46,291 when we think of Howard, 1542 01:14:46,375 --> 01:14:49,000 these are all spaces in which Black artists and Black art 1543 01:14:49,083 --> 01:14:51,208 has flourished for, you know, hundreds of years. 1544 01:14:51,291 --> 01:14:54,709 They were the patrons of African American artists. 1545 01:14:54,792 --> 01:14:56,333 So that's why these institutions 1546 01:14:56,417 --> 01:14:58,500 now have some of the most important works 1547 01:14:58,583 --> 01:15:02,166 by those, uh, kind of important historical figures. 1548 01:15:02,250 --> 01:15:04,291 I think one of the most exciting things about 1549 01:15:04,375 --> 01:15:06,917 the progression of contemporary African American art 1550 01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,667 and the artists that are working today inheriting that tradition 1551 01:15:09,750 --> 01:15:11,959 is that they said, "Hey, you know what? 1552 01:15:12,041 --> 01:15:13,583 My artistic forebearers, 1553 01:15:13,667 --> 01:15:15,834 as it were, have paved the way for me 1554 01:15:15,917 --> 01:15:18,792 to make work of a whole different range of topics 1555 01:15:18,875 --> 01:15:20,625 in a whole different kind of way." 1556 01:15:21,333 --> 01:15:26,625 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1557 01:15:26,709 --> 01:15:28,750 THEASTER GATES: Being a clay guy 1558 01:15:28,834 --> 01:15:34,667 isn't about a tea bowl or a tea pot. 1559 01:15:34,750 --> 01:15:37,000 It's about having a sense 1560 01:15:37,083 --> 01:15:39,750 that a thing that is under-fashioned... 1561 01:15:41,208 --> 01:15:45,208 lesser understood, unbuilt... 1562 01:15:46,250 --> 01:15:51,625 dirt, that with skill and a knowledge of form... 1563 01:15:52,375 --> 01:15:55,208 one could then take this stuff 1564 01:15:55,291 --> 01:15:57,125 and turn it into something useful. 1565 01:15:57,208 --> 01:16:00,542 And that the only limitation between dirt 1566 01:16:00,625 --> 01:16:04,875 becoming a useful form, or just dirt, is ability. 1567 01:16:04,959 --> 01:16:09,959 And so, this idea that we could be, uh, active participants 1568 01:16:10,041 --> 01:16:12,458 in the reshaping of nothingness 1569 01:16:12,542 --> 01:16:13,917 is super important to me. 1570 01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,959 And that the actors, the makers of the 60s and 70s, 1571 01:16:18,041 --> 01:16:21,041 were all too aware of the truth 1572 01:16:21,125 --> 01:16:23,208 of the complexity of nothingness. 1573 01:16:23,291 --> 01:16:24,542 ♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪ 1574 01:16:24,625 --> 01:16:27,667 When I was an undergrad studying ceramics, 1575 01:16:28,458 --> 01:16:30,583 I was studying all the greats. 1576 01:16:30,667 --> 01:16:33,750 There were, like, all these amazing makers. 1577 01:16:33,834 --> 01:16:35,291 None of them looked like me. 1578 01:16:35,375 --> 01:16:37,417 I, like, read and read 1579 01:16:37,500 --> 01:16:40,500 and found the story of Dave Drake. 1580 01:16:40,583 --> 01:16:44,542 And I just thought, "Finally, uh, 1581 01:16:44,625 --> 01:16:47,875 an individual in the history of American making 1582 01:16:47,959 --> 01:16:49,834 that I can root myself in." 1583 01:16:49,917 --> 01:16:54,834 And so I-- I remember trying to embody Dave. 1584 01:16:54,917 --> 01:16:57,583 SARAH: Dave Drake was one of the most proficient potters 1585 01:16:57,667 --> 01:17:00,917 in the United States at the time in which he was making his work. 1586 01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,709 And he was subversive with his practice. 1587 01:17:03,792 --> 01:17:07,583 He would inscribe, at a time when it was, you know, illegal 1588 01:17:07,667 --> 01:17:08,917 for a slave to know how to read, 1589 01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,792 he would inscribe messages on these pots 1590 01:17:12,875 --> 01:17:15,041 to declare his own mastery. 1591 01:17:18,709 --> 01:17:21,959 And he was a master. An artistic master. 1592 01:17:22,041 --> 01:17:25,250 David Drake was in Two Centuries of Black American Art. 1593 01:17:25,333 --> 01:17:27,750 And what it also reminds us is that 1594 01:17:27,834 --> 01:17:30,166 the arts were a way to exert power, 1595 01:17:30,250 --> 01:17:32,959 even in a moment of slavery, you know? 1596 01:17:33,041 --> 01:17:36,041 This is an artist who even defied what the term master meant. 1597 01:17:36,125 --> 01:17:38,125 He was a master at his craft. 1598 01:17:38,208 --> 01:17:41,417 Introducing Dave's story would mean there was a-- 1599 01:17:41,500 --> 01:17:45,125 there was a name that people didn't know from the past. 1600 01:17:45,208 --> 01:17:47,208 And that by bringing him up, maybe it wouldn't mean 1601 01:17:47,291 --> 01:17:48,375 anything to anyone, 1602 01:17:48,458 --> 01:17:50,834 but I at least had a Black potter 1603 01:17:50,917 --> 01:17:52,417 that I could identify with. 1604 01:17:52,500 --> 01:17:56,667 It was the beginning of a kind of hopefulness within Blackness 1605 01:17:56,750 --> 01:17:59,083 that I could be myself in this craft 1606 01:17:59,166 --> 01:18:02,333 and know that there were some part of it that had a legacy. 1607 01:18:02,417 --> 01:18:07,166 When I was only making pots, when I was just working in clay, 1608 01:18:07,250 --> 01:18:09,333 I reached a point in the material 1609 01:18:09,417 --> 01:18:11,667 where they were other things I wanted to say 1610 01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:14,583 and-- and they couldn't be done through the material. 1611 01:18:15,959 --> 01:18:20,500 So I graduated, if you will, into using whatever. 1612 01:18:20,583 --> 01:18:24,583 So I went from being a potter to being a conceptualist. 1613 01:18:25,959 --> 01:18:29,417 It didn't matter what the material was, I was open. 1614 01:18:29,500 --> 01:18:33,208 But I needed the right material to tell the right story. 1615 01:18:33,291 --> 01:18:36,375 Here is one of the earliest civil rights tapestries. 1616 01:18:36,458 --> 01:18:39,875 It's basically, uh, um, fire hoses 1617 01:18:39,959 --> 01:18:41,959 that had been discontinued, 1618 01:18:42,041 --> 01:18:45,709 um, sewn together and framed. 1619 01:18:45,792 --> 01:18:48,417 And this body of work grew out of me 1620 01:18:48,500 --> 01:18:50,041 starting to have a conversation about 1621 01:18:50,125 --> 01:18:54,291 the history of protests and the use of the fire hose 1622 01:18:54,375 --> 01:18:57,000 in places like Selma and Birmingham. 1623 01:18:57,083 --> 01:19:01,000 Then there were moments where the material form-- 1624 01:19:01,083 --> 01:19:05,792 the material world couldn't say certain things for me. 1625 01:19:05,875 --> 01:19:10,375 Then I was back to the first route, 1626 01:19:10,458 --> 01:19:14,166 which was the immaterial form, 1627 01:19:14,250 --> 01:19:15,917 the spiritual form. 1628 01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,667 And that's when voice became super important. 1629 01:19:18,750 --> 01:19:23,375 -Speech acts, choirs, music. -♪ (SINGERS VOCALIZING) ♪ 1630 01:19:23,458 --> 01:19:29,542 (SINGING) ♪ Oh, I wanna Cross the ocean of illusion ♪ 1631 01:19:30,917 --> 01:19:34,083 ♪ (SINGERS VOCALIZING) ♪ 1632 01:19:34,166 --> 01:19:36,834 THEASTER: Sound had its own material form. 1633 01:19:36,917 --> 01:19:39,041 Its own ability to transform space. 1634 01:19:39,125 --> 01:19:41,750 Its own ability to resurrect the soul 1635 01:19:41,834 --> 01:19:44,375 and that-- that there was something that I didn't want 1636 01:19:44,458 --> 01:19:49,333 to leave behind in the story of my people... 1637 01:19:51,458 --> 01:19:53,375 that I felt music could do 1638 01:19:53,458 --> 01:19:56,667 in a way that some of these objects couldn't. 1639 01:19:56,750 --> 01:19:58,417 He sings. 1640 01:19:58,500 --> 01:20:01,166 And to a certain extent, he preaches. 1641 01:20:01,250 --> 01:20:03,500 He had that whole vernacular 1642 01:20:03,583 --> 01:20:08,709 of understanding the definition of what Black culture is about. 1643 01:20:08,792 --> 01:20:11,458 Here's an artist who studied ceramics, 1644 01:20:11,542 --> 01:20:14,250 but also studied urban planning. 1645 01:20:14,333 --> 01:20:19,417 So utilizing his artwork to really expand... 1646 01:20:19,500 --> 01:20:22,917 expand modes of how one produces, 1647 01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:27,834 how art could spearhead economic vitalization. 1648 01:20:27,917 --> 01:20:30,291 Theaster Gates is-- is one of the beacons 1649 01:20:30,375 --> 01:20:31,792 of this kind of change. 1650 01:20:31,875 --> 01:20:36,208 He has done this through The Rebuild Foundation, 1651 01:20:36,291 --> 01:20:37,333 with his actual spaces. 1652 01:20:37,417 --> 01:20:38,834 He has done this through the creation 1653 01:20:38,917 --> 01:20:41,083 of the Black Artist Retreat. 1654 01:20:41,166 --> 01:20:43,083 He's done it through his own practice, 1655 01:20:43,166 --> 01:20:44,333 his own art making practice, 1656 01:20:44,417 --> 01:20:45,875 and he has done it through the fellowship 1657 01:20:45,959 --> 01:20:47,792 that he offers and provides to other artists. 1658 01:20:47,875 --> 01:20:51,542 Going to a Black artist, uh, retreat in Chicago 1659 01:20:51,625 --> 01:20:54,542 was the first time I was ever able to meet 1660 01:20:54,625 --> 01:20:56,375 my contemporaries. 1661 01:20:56,458 --> 01:20:58,792 Um, because I didn't live in New York, 1662 01:20:58,875 --> 01:21:01,166 so I wasn't going to openings. 1663 01:21:01,250 --> 01:21:04,667 And it was a magnificent experience. 1664 01:21:04,750 --> 01:21:06,667 It was, um... 1665 01:21:06,750 --> 01:21:09,500 I mean, I think we all left there changed and invigorated, 1666 01:21:09,583 --> 01:21:11,166 and we all support each other. 1667 01:21:11,250 --> 01:21:15,917 You can get people involved in art on many, many levels, 1668 01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:20,125 knowing that art plays a significant role 1669 01:21:20,208 --> 01:21:24,083 in the wholeness of life, not just one aspect of it. 1670 01:21:24,166 --> 01:21:26,458 You don't have to go to the museum to see it. 1671 01:21:26,542 --> 01:21:29,417 You can be part of it in your own community. 1672 01:21:29,500 --> 01:21:32,500 He has really revolutionized the whole concept of art 1673 01:21:32,583 --> 01:21:34,625 more than any other artist I know. 1674 01:21:34,709 --> 01:21:36,458 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 1675 01:21:47,417 --> 01:21:48,917 Are you a artist? 1676 01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,834 Yes, I'm the artist who made these pictures. 1677 01:21:55,208 --> 01:21:57,917 You can see, of course, that I was greatly influenced 1678 01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,250 by Romare Bearden. 1679 01:22:00,333 --> 01:22:02,125 Enamored by his work. 1680 01:22:02,208 --> 01:22:04,625 -I wanted to integrate the painting... -VIEWER: Mm-hmm. 1681 01:22:04,709 --> 01:22:08,083 ...and make the painting primary. 1682 01:22:08,166 --> 01:22:10,166 ♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1683 01:22:13,875 --> 01:22:16,250 DAVID: I devoted my life to teaching, 1684 01:22:16,333 --> 01:22:19,208 through collecting, through curating. 1685 01:22:19,291 --> 01:22:21,792 But I saw the need to participate 1686 01:22:21,875 --> 01:22:24,041 in the cultural awareness, 1687 01:22:24,125 --> 01:22:28,166 helping to revise and redefine American art. 1688 01:22:28,250 --> 01:22:30,917 In my opinion, David Driskell's presence in the art world 1689 01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:35,083 is-- is the significance of him sending the elevator back down. 1690 01:22:35,166 --> 01:22:38,834 He was a trailblazer for-- for all of us. 1691 01:22:38,917 --> 01:22:40,875 And when there were no Black voices 1692 01:22:40,959 --> 01:22:42,083 in the art world, 1693 01:22:42,166 --> 01:22:45,125 um, for him to assert himself in the way that he did, 1694 01:22:45,208 --> 01:22:47,709 helped move us forward, um, during a time when we were 1695 01:22:47,792 --> 01:22:51,458 still fighting for space in museums and, um, 1696 01:22:51,542 --> 01:22:52,959 and in galleries. 1697 01:22:53,041 --> 01:22:54,959 You know, traditionally, there was a moment 1698 01:22:55,041 --> 01:22:58,250 when, you know, there were not many images or representations 1699 01:22:58,333 --> 01:23:01,458 of African Americans in paintings, in the visual arts, 1700 01:23:01,542 --> 01:23:03,500 in our collective visual culture. 1701 01:23:03,583 --> 01:23:06,458 And now, thanks to Two Centuries of Black Art, 1702 01:23:06,542 --> 01:23:08,917 the world was given these amazing portrayals 1703 01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:10,709 and images about Black culture. 1704 01:23:10,792 --> 01:23:14,959 And they became seared in the collective imagination. 1705 01:23:15,041 --> 01:23:20,208 And I think we-- we're part of a continued renaissance. 1706 01:23:20,291 --> 01:23:21,500 It's been happening. 1707 01:23:21,583 --> 01:23:24,333 What I'm most excited about is... 1708 01:23:24,417 --> 01:23:27,667 do we have the capacity to be great makers 1709 01:23:27,750 --> 01:23:30,041 in the absence of light? 1710 01:23:30,125 --> 01:23:32,291 And if Blackness has something to do 1711 01:23:32,375 --> 01:23:34,417 with the absence of light... 1712 01:23:34,500 --> 01:23:37,875 does Black art mean that sometimes I'm making 1713 01:23:37,959 --> 01:23:39,834 when no one is looking? 1714 01:23:39,917 --> 01:23:41,333 And for the most part, 1715 01:23:41,417 --> 01:23:43,792 that has been the truth of our lives. 1716 01:23:43,875 --> 01:23:45,417 Is there a light? Yes. 1717 01:23:45,500 --> 01:23:50,125 But until we own the light, I'm not happy. 1718 01:23:50,208 --> 01:23:52,083 Until we're in our own houses 1719 01:23:52,166 --> 01:23:55,125 of exhibition, of discovery, of research. 1720 01:23:55,208 --> 01:23:59,792 Until we've figured out a way to be masters of the world, 1721 01:23:59,875 --> 01:24:02,500 then I'd rather work in darkness. 1722 01:24:02,583 --> 01:24:05,458 I'd rather work in darkness, because at least I know 1723 01:24:05,542 --> 01:24:07,166 that I'm working. 1724 01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:09,709 That I'm-- That-- I don't want to work 1725 01:24:09,792 --> 01:24:11,417 only when the light comes on. 1726 01:24:12,166 --> 01:24:14,083 And my-- my fear, 1727 01:24:14,166 --> 01:24:16,083 is that we're being trained and conditioned 1728 01:24:16,166 --> 01:24:18,834 to only make if there is a light. 1729 01:24:18,917 --> 01:24:20,875 And that makes us co-dependent upon a thing 1730 01:24:20,959 --> 01:24:22,166 that we don't control. 1731 01:24:22,250 --> 01:24:25,125 Are you willing to make in the absence of light? 1732 01:24:26,208 --> 01:24:29,250 There has been an awakening, an awareness. 1733 01:24:29,333 --> 01:24:30,375 But that's enlightenment 1734 01:24:30,458 --> 01:24:33,750 through education, through desire... 1735 01:24:34,625 --> 01:24:38,542 to want, to know, to improve. 1736 01:24:38,625 --> 01:24:40,709 And I think a lot of that's going on. 1737 01:24:40,792 --> 01:24:45,875 On the other hand, in the words of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., 1738 01:24:45,959 --> 01:24:48,125 "We haven't reached the promised land. 1739 01:24:48,792 --> 01:24:50,667 We've got a long way to go." 1740 01:24:51,333 --> 01:24:54,500 ♪ (JAZZ MUSIC FADES) ♪ 1741 01:24:56,583 --> 01:24:59,709 ♪ (RHYTHMIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪ 1742 01:25:42,875 --> 01:25:45,041 ♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪