WEBVTT FILE

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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-MAN: Dear son...
-WOMAN: Daughter...

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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Dear son...

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MAHERSHALA ALI:
There was before you...

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and then there was after.

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WOMAN 2: It was only after you
that I understood this love.

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ALI: And I knew then
that I must survive

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for something more
than survival's sake.

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I must survive for you.

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-GROUP: You.
-You.

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♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYS) ♪

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The Black artist
in America has had to put up

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with a great deal
over the years.

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It's not been simply a matter
of mastering the art

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while surviving as a person.

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This has been the experience of
most white artists, of course.

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For the Black artist,
it has also been the matter

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of being taken seriously as
an artist and as an individual.

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Last week, a major
historical survey of Black--

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Art by Blacks in America

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called Two Centuries
of Black American Art,

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opened at the Brooklyn Museum
in New York.

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David Driskell,
a professor of art

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at the University of Maryland
and formerly chairman

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of the art department
at Fisk University in Nashville,

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has organized this show.

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Incidentally, it opened

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last year in Los Angeles
as a bicentennial exhibition,

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and it drew overflow crowds.

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1976, um,
doesn't seem like that long ago.

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♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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VALERIE CASSEL OLIVER:
But it was remarkable

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that David Driskell could
mount an exhibition

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called  Two Centuries
of Black American Art.

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Because up until that point,
you really do not have

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an exhibition which is
authored by a Black curator

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which talks about the history...

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and the contemporary
manifestations

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of Black art production
in the visual arts.

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It just didn't exist.

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For the most part,

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the general public
was not that aware

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of the contributions that
African American artists

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had made to American culture
in general in the 19th

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or even the 20th century.

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It was a surprise to most
people when you come up

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with a list of 50 to 100
Black artists

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who had been working
all the time.

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They say, "Well, we've never
heard of these artists."

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Well, of course not.

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There's no publication,
there's no exhibition.

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MAURICE BERGER:
What David did was he said,

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"This is Black art."

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It matters. And it's been
going on for 200 years.

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Deal with it.

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♪ (RHYTHMIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪

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Mr. Driskell, you take, uh,
issue with the fact

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that it has been called
an exhibition of Black art,

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or we have been describing it
this morning

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as the history of Black art.

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Why do you not think of that
as being Black art, so to speak?

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Well, first of all,
when one says Black art,

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it more or less isolates
the Black artist

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from the mainstream
of American art.

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And even though this has
happened throughout the years,

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but we have critical acclaim,
historical analysis, et cetera,

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the Black artist has not
attempted to set himself apart.

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He has tried to be part
and parcel of the mainstream.

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But aren't you setting them
apart, in effect,

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by putting the show together
with just Black artists?

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Only because he has not
had an audience

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with a-- a majority culture
for the most part.

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And because, uh,
an exhibition of this nature

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gets his work before the public.

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Had this exhibition not been
organized, many of the artists

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who were shown here
never would have been seen.

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♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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MAURICE: The show opens

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in the Los Angeles County
Museum of Art.

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There was a lot of resistance,
even at that museum.

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There were some who said,

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"No. We shouldn't be
even involved with this."

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And yet when push came to shove,
the board and the curators

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agreed that  Two Centuries
of African American Art

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would be a good idea.

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DAVID DRISKELL: I guess it was
a teaching moment for them,

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at the same time that I had
a chance to really say,

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"This is something
that ought to be done

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because the American canon
is not complete without it."

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When you understand
how difficult that was,

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what a triumph it was
that it was actually done,

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then you start to understand

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the enormous struggle
and journey

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that this country has been on
to feature and to display

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and to honor the work
of Black artists.

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What Driskell did
is he demonstrated,

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absolutely,
that there was a lineage,

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there was a history.

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And that history was filled
not only with painting

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and sculpture,
but also, the decorative arts.

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Architecture, drawings. I mean,
it-- it-- it really gave us

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this enormous sense of
the legacy of African Americans.

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♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

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I would have been 21 years old
in '76.

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Yeah. And I saw that show.

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The scope of the show,
uh, the amount of work

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that was available,
there was work in that show

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that you had only seen
in books before.

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And so, for an artist,

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I mean, always seeing the work
in person,

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seeing the real thing
matters a lot.

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I was there.
I remember the electricity.

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I remember the fact
that it was packed.

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There were lines down
Wilshire Boulevard.

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DAVID:
People from all over coming

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for that opening and it--
it was just spectacular.

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After the count was taken

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and after that exhibition
closed there

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and went to The High Museum
in Atlanta the next year,

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they found out that more people
attended that exhibition

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than any other exhibition...

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originated in the United States.

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So the show opens
and it travels to Dallas,

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it travels to Chicago,

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it travels finally
to the Brooklyn Museum.

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And it sends a message.

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And what it says is that
these are the manifestations

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of African American artistic
brilliance over two centuries.

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Artists who were
still practicing,

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who were living,

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Richard Mayhew, Loïs Jones,
Selma Burke, Richmond Barthé,

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Charles White, Romare Bearden,
Jacob Lawrence,

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when they saw all of
their work together,

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it was like a homecoming.

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I didn't attend the show,
I was too young.

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Maybe I did,
I wouldn't remember.

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But I remember the book.

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The book was in my home.

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It was in my sister's bedroom.

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So these were images that I saw

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before I could really
say the names.

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They were just sort of
imprinted, um, in me.

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And there was definitely
a sense of communication

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and education I was getting
from those images.

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Because you have to remember,
at that time,

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there were very few
positive images of Black folks

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that were widely available.

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The artists of that time,

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not only
were presenting Black people,

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they were presenting
nuance, idiosyncratic,

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abstract, beautiful imagery.

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JORDAN CASTEEL:
I just feel a sense of belonging

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when I look at this book.

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My community of Black American
artists that come before me

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have created the ground
for me to build on.

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And that's a beautiful thing.
That's what this book

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and this exhibition and what
David Driskell has done,

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um, represents for me.

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I grew up in a home that had
the work of Charles White...

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Hale Woodruff...

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♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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JORDAN: ...Faith Ringgold,
Elizabeth Catlett.

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Those were works that
were around my, um, home,

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so I felt they belonged to me.
I felt ownership of those images

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because they were a part of
my intimate and immediate space.

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♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

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KERRY JAMES MARSHALL:
When I was
in junior high school,

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I got a summer scholarship
to take a drawing class

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at the Otis Art Institute.

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The, uh, drawing teacher
had a book

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that he put on
the opaque projector,

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it was  Images of Dignity:
The Drawings of Charles White.

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Because prior to that, you know,

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almost all of the artists
I had encountered

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in our history books
were European.

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When I was 15,
the first oil painting I made

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was a painting-- an original
painting that I made

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in the style of Charles White,
so that I could understand

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exactly what it was
he was trying to do,

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how he used form,
how he used color and tone,

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and to try to make
an original work

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that did some of the same
kinds of things that he did

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without copying the work
that he had made.

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You train yourself to
a certain way of seeing form

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and understanding form

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by copying
what somebody else did.

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And at another point,
you break free from that,

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because then you can
do your own thing.

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When I met Charles White,

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one of the things that stuck
with me that he said was that,

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"Whenever you make work,
it ought to be about something,

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and it ought to be about
something that mattered."

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Because all of the work
I was doing

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had some relationship
to the history of art.

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It seemed to make a lot of sense

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that it also should have a lot
in rel-- a lot to do

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with the history
of Black people.

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So that's what
I set myself to do.

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To make pictures that had
historical relevance

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in terms of the story,
the narratives they told,

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but also have historical
relevance

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because they had a relationship
to the way

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in which the narrative
of painting

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as an activity sort of
developed over time.

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I think
that Kerry James Marshall has

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all but redefined
the whole concept

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of what Black art is about.

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I would say
he had the audacity...

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to concentrate on
just the Black subject

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and not bring
all these other elements in.

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And I think it's fascinating,
not only from the point of view

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of what Black people
feel about themselves,

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but it's intriguing
to whites as well.

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KERRY:
In the history of painting

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that we are introduced to...

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you don't find many images
of Black people in pictures.

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You certainly don't see
a lot of images

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of Black people making pictures.

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At the end of the 19th century,

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and in the beginning
of the 20th century,

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this notion that representation

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was a useless artifact
of old-fashioned ideas

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about what it meant
to make art

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had sort of set in,
and people started thinking

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that abstract painting is a more
advanced form of painting

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than representational painting.

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And that's what abstraction
sort of says, in a way,

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that representing yourself
is no longer a viable approach.

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But I don't look at it that way.

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There's work
that needs to be done

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using the Black figure
in painting as a meaningful part

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of the historical narrative.

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Kerry James Marshall
was a student of mine.

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He made a very good sketchbook
in my class.

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And he was a good artist.

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One of the exercises
she had us do in that class

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was to make a collage.
We did a series of collages.

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You had to make a collage
and then bring that collage back

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again the next week
and have it changed.

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And then to bring it again
and changed again.

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And then to bring it again
and changed again.

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So that you never really
became too attached

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to not make everything you do
seem so precious

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that it can't be transformed,
that it can't be modified,

247
00:11:40.583 --> 00:11:42.083
or it can't be improved.

248
00:11:42.166 --> 00:11:48.208
I was very interested in, uh,
non-Western philosophies

249
00:11:48.291 --> 00:11:52.583
and the spiritualism
and the images that they use.

250
00:11:52.667 --> 00:11:55.875
KERRY: I had seen, uh,
Black Girl's Window before.

251
00:11:55.959 --> 00:11:58.834
It was certainly an image
that was in the back of my mind.

252
00:11:58.917 --> 00:12:00.750
When I looked back at that work,

253
00:12:00.834 --> 00:12:04.375
it certainly has a relationship
to a painting I did in 1980

254
00:12:04.458 --> 00:12:06.250
that was really transformative
for me

255
00:12:06.333 --> 00:12:07.458
and it really sort of set me

256
00:12:07.542 --> 00:12:09.667
on the path to doing the work
that I'm doing now.

257
00:12:09.750 --> 00:12:11.291
And I made a painting called

258
00:12:11.375 --> 00:12:14.250
A Portrait of the Artist as
a Shadow of His Former Self.

259
00:12:14.333 --> 00:12:17.750
Which is a Black figure
against a black ground.

260
00:12:17.834 --> 00:12:21.917
And it was the first time
I had used this simplified,

261
00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:25.375
kind of reductive representation
of a Black figure.

262
00:12:25.458 --> 00:12:28.166
And so that painting was the--
the one that established

263
00:12:28.250 --> 00:12:31.625
the Black figure as a mode
of operating for me.

264
00:12:31.709 --> 00:12:36.125
One of the things I was trying
to do was to embody in a picture

265
00:12:36.208 --> 00:12:38.750
the concept that Ralph Ellison
had laid out

266
00:12:38.834 --> 00:12:40.333
in his novel, Invisible Man.

267
00:12:40.417 --> 00:12:42.709
He describes the condition
of invisibility

268
00:12:42.792 --> 00:12:45.750
as it relates to Black people
in America.

269
00:12:45.834 --> 00:12:49.500
This condition of being seen
and not seen simultaneously.

270
00:12:49.583 --> 00:12:51.542
And that's what I think
a Black figure

271
00:12:51.625 --> 00:12:53.375
against the black ground,

272
00:12:53.458 --> 00:12:56.083
where if you change the color
temperature of the black,

273
00:12:56.166 --> 00:12:59.542
it creates enough separation
so that you can alternately

274
00:12:59.625 --> 00:13:02.166
see and then sometimes not see

275
00:13:02.250 --> 00:13:04.000
the figure that's present there.

276
00:13:05.208 --> 00:13:09.625
I started creating the sense
of volume in those figures

277
00:13:09.709 --> 00:13:12.500
by using the grayscale.

278
00:13:12.583 --> 00:13:15.000
So, uh-- You take black,
you add white to it,

279
00:13:15.083 --> 00:13:16.166
you can create a grayscale,

280
00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:18.125
and then you can actually start
doing modelling,

281
00:13:18.208 --> 00:13:20.000
you know, with--
with values.

282
00:13:20.083 --> 00:13:21.709
Black is not the absence
of color,

283
00:13:21.792 --> 00:13:23.792
black is particular
kinds of color.

284
00:13:23.875 --> 00:13:26.542
And so if I went
to the paint store, as I did,

285
00:13:26.625 --> 00:13:29.125
and I bought black paint,

286
00:13:29.208 --> 00:13:32.000
I could see I could buy
three different variations

287
00:13:32.083 --> 00:13:33.375
of black paint.

288
00:13:33.458 --> 00:13:36.959
So I could buy an ivory black,
I could buy a carbon black,

289
00:13:37.041 --> 00:13:39.166
and I could buy
an iron oxide black,

290
00:13:39.250 --> 00:13:41.083
or something
that's called Mars black.

291
00:13:41.166 --> 00:13:42.875
And if you look at each one
of those colors,

292
00:13:42.959 --> 00:13:44.500
they are not the same thing.

293
00:13:44.583 --> 00:13:47.291
This is the full range
of the black flesh tones.

294
00:13:47.375 --> 00:13:48.458
There are seven.

295
00:13:48.542 --> 00:13:51.959
Every one of these tones
is on those-- the later figures.

296
00:13:52.041 --> 00:13:54.500
Every one of these colors
is on there.

297
00:13:54.583 --> 00:13:56.500
But, I mean,
they all look the same,

298
00:13:56.583 --> 00:13:57.667
but when you stack them on top

299
00:13:57.750 --> 00:14:00.166
of each other,
then the-- the variations

300
00:14:00.250 --> 00:14:01.959
start to become more pronounced.

301
00:14:02.041 --> 00:14:05.000
So I can end up with six,
seven, eight or nine

302
00:14:05.083 --> 00:14:07.542
different colors
that are all made from black.

303
00:14:08.583 --> 00:14:09.834
So that means I have a palette

304
00:14:09.917 --> 00:14:12.500
that's as complex and as broad
and as ranged

305
00:14:12.583 --> 00:14:15.834
as any other color
that's on the spectrum.

306
00:14:15.917 --> 00:14:18.500
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

307
00:14:18.583 --> 00:14:22.000
KERRY: I think, in general,
the paintings had been
really well received.

308
00:14:22.083 --> 00:14:25.000
But there's a lingering
controversy around

309
00:14:25.083 --> 00:14:27.583
the sort of unequivocally Black,

310
00:14:27.667 --> 00:14:31.166
kind of emphatically
Black figures.

311
00:14:31.250 --> 00:14:33.083
I wouldn't have done them
if I didn't feel it.

312
00:14:33.166 --> 00:14:38.208
But I tend to think
having that extreme, uh, color,

313
00:14:38.291 --> 00:14:40.959
that kind of black,
is-- is amazingly beautiful.

314
00:14:43.417 --> 00:14:46.166
There's a lot of overlap
in terms of structure

315
00:14:46.250 --> 00:14:48.500
between the way
artists handle color

316
00:14:48.583 --> 00:14:50.000
and the way musicians
handle color

317
00:14:50.083 --> 00:14:51.709
and note and tone
and all this.

318
00:14:51.792 --> 00:14:53.917
Because we use the same
kind of language, basically.

319
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.458
It's tone, it's texture,
it's color. It's intensity.

320
00:14:57.542 --> 00:15:00.750
And it's-- it's all basically
the same sort of
structural language.

321
00:15:00.834 --> 00:15:04.000
I found my own sound.
I found my own tone.

322
00:15:06.125 --> 00:15:11.417
Very often, something that
we wouldn't even consider major,

323
00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:14.041
like a family picnic,
or the barbershop,

324
00:15:14.125 --> 00:15:15.875
how we live, what we do.

325
00:15:15.959 --> 00:15:20.166
He kind of popularized
the ordinary.

326
00:15:20.250 --> 00:15:24.542
And in so doing, he made it
his own personal statement.

327
00:15:24.625 --> 00:15:27.458
We see ourselves in
so many different ways.

328
00:15:27.542 --> 00:15:30.959
'Cause he's looking at every
aspect of our being.

329
00:15:31.041 --> 00:15:33.041
♪ (QUIET JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

330
00:15:33.125 --> 00:15:35.291
VALERIE:
The first major exhibition

331
00:15:35.375 --> 00:15:38.834
that focuses on Black art
or cultural production,

332
00:15:38.917 --> 00:15:41.917
before  Two Centuries
of Black American Art

333
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:45.834
is  Harlem on My Mind
by The Met in 1968.

334
00:15:45.917 --> 00:15:51.166
Which received a huge backlash
from the community itself.

335
00:15:51.250 --> 00:15:55.250
Why? It was not authored
by anyone who looked like

336
00:15:55.333 --> 00:15:57.542
the subjects of that exhibition.

337
00:15:57.625 --> 00:16:01.750
It framed it almost in
an anthropological framework,

338
00:16:01.834 --> 00:16:05.375
which was the sights
and sounds of Harlem

339
00:16:05.458 --> 00:16:08.291
from the 1900s to 1968.

340
00:16:08.375 --> 00:16:10.417
It did not take into account

341
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:14.792
the wealth of cultural and
artistic production emerging.

342
00:16:14.875 --> 00:16:17.875
That was, uh, shocking.

343
00:16:17.959 --> 00:16:21.709
For all of the desires
of the curators,

344
00:16:21.792 --> 00:16:23.750
they are missing the mark.

345
00:16:25.959 --> 00:16:28.208
REPORTER: Mr. Hoving, what
do you think of the exhibit?

346
00:16:28.291 --> 00:16:30.750
-Well, I personally like it.
-REPORTER: Why?

347
00:16:30.834 --> 00:16:34.250
I like it because
I think it is true.

348
00:16:34.333 --> 00:16:36.583
I think
it is an honest portrayal

349
00:16:36.667 --> 00:16:39.125
of a very difficult subject,
which is millions of people

350
00:16:39.208 --> 00:16:42.667
living in one area,
a large area of New York City,

351
00:16:42.750 --> 00:16:45.125
over a period of about 70 years.

352
00:16:45.208 --> 00:16:49.166
REPORTER: Some people,
especially some Harlem citizens

353
00:16:49.250 --> 00:16:51.041
have criticized the exhibition

354
00:16:51.125 --> 00:16:54.917
and said it's not art,
it's all photography.

355
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.333
They said that Harlem people,
Harlem-born people,

356
00:16:59.417 --> 00:17:01.500
were not intimately involved.

357
00:17:01.583 --> 00:17:03.375
They said it's too slick,

358
00:17:04.083 --> 00:17:06.333
and that it lacks sensitivity.

359
00:17:06.417 --> 00:17:08.125
Well, I know some people
have said that.

360
00:17:08.208 --> 00:17:10.250
On the other hand, uh,
there have been others,

361
00:17:10.333 --> 00:17:11.875
that have been on
the advisory committee

362
00:17:11.959 --> 00:17:14.291
and working for many,
many months

363
00:17:14.375 --> 00:17:17.291
who said that they thought
it was, uh, moving,

364
00:17:17.375 --> 00:17:18.709
and they thought it was, uh,

365
00:17:18.792 --> 00:17:20.000
powerful
where it should be powerful

366
00:17:20.083 --> 00:17:23.542
and, uh, soft and lyrical
where it should be.

367
00:17:23.625 --> 00:17:27.375
Again, this is, uh, these
diametrically opposed opinions.

368
00:17:27.458 --> 00:17:28.875
We're going to get
a lot of that.

369
00:17:28.959 --> 00:17:30.792
And, uh, I think that's good.

370
00:17:30.875 --> 00:17:36.750
Harlem as a kind of fanciful,
mystical magical subject

371
00:17:36.834 --> 00:17:40.000
was fine for
The Metropolitan Museum of Art.

372
00:17:40.083 --> 00:17:42.583
But the artists
who were doing the work,

373
00:17:42.667 --> 00:17:43.875
who were walking the walk,

374
00:17:43.959 --> 00:17:46.083
were somehow
irrelevant to the story.

375
00:17:46.166 --> 00:17:47.792
MARY SCHMIDT CAMPBELL:
With one exception.

376
00:17:47.875 --> 00:17:51.166
And that exception is that
they included the photographs

377
00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:53.041
of James Van Der Zee.

378
00:17:53.125 --> 00:17:57.709
The fact that they included him
turned out to be a revelation.

379
00:17:57.792 --> 00:18:02.583
Because Van Der Zee's work
documented much of the cultural

380
00:18:02.667 --> 00:18:04.375
day-to-day life of Harlem.

381
00:18:04.458 --> 00:18:08.083
The rituals and ceremonies
of people who lived there.

382
00:18:08.166 --> 00:18:09.834
And his name became
a name we all knew,

383
00:18:09.917 --> 00:18:13.291
and the content of what he did
became known to people.

384
00:18:14.041 --> 00:18:15.250
DAVID: My reaction was that

385
00:18:15.333 --> 00:18:18.750
if The Metropolitan Museum
wanted to really

386
00:18:18.834 --> 00:18:21.417
give a real depiction
of what Black artists

387
00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:23.417
had been doing in the period

388
00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:25.625
of the Harlem Renaissance
and thereafter,

389
00:18:25.709 --> 00:18:29.125
why not deal with the art?

390
00:18:29.208 --> 00:18:32.417
Doing The Two Centuries
gave me the chance

391
00:18:32.500 --> 00:18:36.458
to, uh, bridge the gap
to a certain extent

392
00:18:36.875 --> 00:18:38.083
between what,

393
00:18:38.166 --> 00:18:42.750
uh, I thought The Met should
have been doing from day one.

394
00:18:42.834 --> 00:18:44.500
MARY:
People like Romare Bearden,

395
00:18:44.583 --> 00:18:46.792
Benny Andrews,
were out protesting,

396
00:18:46.875 --> 00:18:49.125
as well as people
from the community,

397
00:18:49.208 --> 00:18:52.208
because it was not
reflective of Harlem.

398
00:18:53.583 --> 00:18:57.333
MAURICE:
Why are museums so resistant

399
00:18:57.417 --> 00:19:00.166
to opening their doors
to artists of color

400
00:19:00.250 --> 00:19:02.375
and particularly
African Americans artists?

401
00:19:02.458 --> 00:19:04.291
For the first time,
perhaps ever,

402
00:19:04.375 --> 00:19:06.709
I think people really start
to think of their museums

403
00:19:06.792 --> 00:19:08.625
as being their museums,
as belonging to them

404
00:19:08.709 --> 00:19:10.208
in a different way.

405
00:19:10.291 --> 00:19:14.667
Faith Ringgold was a prime
agitator in this time period.

406
00:19:14.750 --> 00:19:16.875
She was protesting
at The Whitney,

407
00:19:16.959 --> 00:19:19.917
protesting at The Met,
protesting all around the city.

408
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.834
FAITH RINGGOLD:
We are Black. But we are equals.

409
00:19:22.917 --> 00:19:27.542
I believe thoroughly and
completely in freedom of speech.

410
00:19:28.625 --> 00:19:30.792
And no one's going
to change that.

411
00:19:30.875 --> 00:19:32.959
I'll just stay out
till I get in.

412
00:19:34.250 --> 00:19:36.750
♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

413
00:19:38.542 --> 00:19:41.250
MARY: I met Faith Ringgold,

414
00:19:41.333 --> 00:19:44.291
when I was in graduate school
at Syracuse.

415
00:19:45.041 --> 00:19:46.333
And what I heard was this,

416
00:19:46.417 --> 00:19:48.500
that she had gone to
The Studio Museum in Harlem

417
00:19:48.583 --> 00:19:50.000
and tried to get a show.

418
00:19:50.083 --> 00:19:55.125
And, um, Studio Museum
did not give her a show.

419
00:19:55.792 --> 00:19:57.250
Um, for whatever reason.

420
00:19:57.333 --> 00:19:59.417
They weren't a lot of women
back in those days

421
00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:03.583
who were getting, um,
solo exhibitions at the museum.

422
00:20:03.667 --> 00:20:06.500
And she had all these
big paintings

423
00:20:06.583 --> 00:20:09.542
she was-- couldn't get
shown, uh, in New York.

424
00:20:09.625 --> 00:20:13.166
And so she started doing
these, uh, soft sculptures.

425
00:20:13.250 --> 00:20:16.041
And she would take
the soft sculptures

426
00:20:16.125 --> 00:20:19.041
and she would lecture
on women artists.

427
00:20:19.125 --> 00:20:22.291
Not only Black women artists,
but on women artists in general.

428
00:20:22.375 --> 00:20:25.000
Because she understood
that it wasn't just an issue

429
00:20:25.083 --> 00:20:26.166
about Black artists,

430
00:20:26.250 --> 00:20:28.417
it was an issue of gender
as-- as well as race.

431
00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:31.166
I was not invited to sit down
with the men

432
00:20:31.250 --> 00:20:35.208
who were in the struggle
with me.

433
00:20:35.291 --> 00:20:38.166
I realized I was really
doing the right thing

434
00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:40.041
by becoming a feminist,

435
00:20:40.125 --> 00:20:44.542
and trying to start a feminist
movement in the art world.

436
00:20:44.625 --> 00:20:47.125
Faith Ringgold is an artist
who hasn't received

437
00:20:47.208 --> 00:20:48.375
the recognition she deserves,

438
00:20:48.458 --> 00:20:51.083
in part because of the form
that she decided to use,

439
00:20:51.166 --> 00:20:53.333
but also because of
just how incendiary

440
00:20:53.417 --> 00:20:56.458
her political style was.

441
00:20:56.542 --> 00:20:58.583
Her paintings in particular.

442
00:20:58.667 --> 00:21:01.959
Her political work also
had such an invective,

443
00:21:02.041 --> 00:21:04.917
that some places weren't
willing to be that radical.

444
00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.875
I did what I wanted to do,
and, uh, paid the price.

445
00:21:09.959 --> 00:21:13.166
I think it's also partly
that she is...

446
00:21:13.250 --> 00:21:17.417
extremely courageous,
ahead of her time.

447
00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:20.917
Very fierce in her work,
loving in her work.

448
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.959
She doesn't accept
anyone else's leadership

449
00:21:24.041 --> 00:21:25.959
about how art should be.

450
00:21:26.041 --> 00:21:30.375
Which by the way, I think is
what it means to be an artist.

451
00:21:30.458 --> 00:21:32.875
♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

452
00:21:37.250 --> 00:21:39.542
DAVID: One of the great
American artists,

453
00:21:39.625 --> 00:21:42.458
Richard Mayhew, was part
of  Two Centuries.

454
00:21:42.542 --> 00:21:44.834
His work was a continuum
of sorts.

455
00:21:44.917 --> 00:21:46.083
It was in the tradition

456
00:21:46.166 --> 00:21:49.333
of the great Black American
landscape painters.

457
00:21:49.417 --> 00:21:51.458
Of Bannister, of Duncanson,

458
00:21:51.542 --> 00:21:57.083
of others that we think of when
we say, "America the Beautiful."

459
00:21:57.166 --> 00:22:00.208
RICHARD MAYHEW: My paintings
were based on mood space,

460
00:22:00.291 --> 00:22:03.208
feeling of time,
and mood of the moment.

461
00:22:03.291 --> 00:22:05.500
It's a joy. It's like a dance.

462
00:22:05.583 --> 00:22:09.625
They look like landscapes,
but they're mindscapes.

463
00:22:09.709 --> 00:22:12.250
(CHUCKLES)

464
00:22:12.333 --> 00:22:16.166
So what we mean by mindscape
is it was all internalized

465
00:22:16.250 --> 00:22:17.500
thinking and feeling.

466
00:22:17.583 --> 00:22:20.417
I started painting
very, very young.

467
00:22:20.500 --> 00:22:22.583
I-- I used to see painters,

468
00:22:22.667 --> 00:22:25.417
and I used to go to the museum
and watch them paint.

469
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:28.959
And it was fascinating, watching
the magic wand as you call it,

470
00:22:29.041 --> 00:22:30.417
a dip in the paint

471
00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:33.750
and images come out
the other end... (LAUGHS)
on the canvas.

472
00:22:33.834 --> 00:22:36.625
So that kind of thrilled me
just seeing that

473
00:22:36.709 --> 00:22:39.000
and that kind of
challenged me about

474
00:22:39.083 --> 00:22:40.750
the whole idea of painting.

475
00:22:40.834 --> 00:22:43.917
The mystique
and the magic of it.

476
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.458
Well, I was drawing all
the time, constantly drawing.

477
00:22:47.542 --> 00:22:49.166
How I learned to draw
I can't imagine that,

478
00:22:49.250 --> 00:22:54.208
because I could draw almost
anything as in-- Very early--
very early on.

479
00:22:54.291 --> 00:22:56.166
I went to study
at The Art Academy

480
00:22:56.250 --> 00:22:57.458
in Florence, Italy

481
00:22:57.542 --> 00:23:00.208
and I went to study at
the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam.

482
00:23:00.291 --> 00:23:03.083
I met Spiral
when I came back from Europe.

483
00:23:03.166 --> 00:23:04.834
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

484
00:23:04.917 --> 00:23:08.166
SARAH LEWIS: In 1963,
Mayhew joined The Spiral Group,

485
00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:11.208
founded by painters
Romare Bearden and Norman Lewis

486
00:23:11.291 --> 00:23:13.667
in response to the civil
rights struggle.

487
00:23:13.750 --> 00:23:16.000
They discussed the plight
of Blacks in America

488
00:23:16.083 --> 00:23:18.250
and the direction
African American art

489
00:23:18.333 --> 00:23:19.417
should take.

490
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:22.625
The, uh, legacy that
they've left is unbelievable...

491
00:23:23.625 --> 00:23:25.041
and very special people.

492
00:23:25.125 --> 00:23:26.375
So they weren't just artists,

493
00:23:26.458 --> 00:23:30.208
these were the mentors of
the future of American society.

494
00:23:30.291 --> 00:23:33.917
SARAH: Spiral began
in Romare Bearden's studio.

495
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.125
The fifth floor
of his Canal Street loft.

496
00:23:36.208 --> 00:23:39.417
Spiral came into being in 1963

497
00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:41.250
at the height of
the civil rights movement.

498
00:23:41.333 --> 00:23:43.125
And in fact, they got together

499
00:23:43.208 --> 00:23:45.750
because there was an idea
that, uh, there should be

500
00:23:45.834 --> 00:23:47.125
a group of Black artists

501
00:23:47.208 --> 00:23:49.417
who should go to
the March on Washington.

502
00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:51.750
SARAH: The question became
how can artists

503
00:23:51.834 --> 00:23:53.750
engage with the civil
rights movement?

504
00:23:53.834 --> 00:23:55.667
Artists who were working
in abstract means

505
00:23:55.750 --> 00:23:58.041
and artists who were
more overtly political.

506
00:23:58.125 --> 00:24:01.291
And Spiral was trying to
find a way to create a bridge

507
00:24:01.375 --> 00:24:03.583
between these two
seemingly separate worlds.

508
00:24:03.667 --> 00:24:06.709
And it was really
the first major group

509
00:24:06.792 --> 00:24:10.417
of Black artists that
assembled since the 40s.

510
00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:13.583
And when they got together,
they really discovered

511
00:24:13.667 --> 00:24:16.208
that they had an enormous
amount to talk about.

512
00:24:16.291 --> 00:24:18.750
So there was Hale Woodruff,
Charles Alston,

513
00:24:18.834 --> 00:24:21.250
Richard Mayhew, Romare Bearden.

514
00:24:21.333 --> 00:24:23.625
I think Emma Amos
was the only woman...  (SCOFFS)

515
00:24:23.709 --> 00:24:25.625
they permitted into the group.

516
00:24:25.709 --> 00:24:30.375
I tried to join Spiral,
and they told me no.

517
00:24:30.458 --> 00:24:32.208
Didn't you write a letter
to Romare Bearden

518
00:24:32.291 --> 00:24:34.208
-asking to join?
-Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

519
00:24:34.291 --> 00:24:35.792
-MICHELE WALLACE: Actually,
what he did...
-Oh, actually--

520
00:24:35.875 --> 00:24:37.583
-...was critic your work.
-Yeah, that's what he did.

521
00:24:37.667 --> 00:24:39.583
-MICHELE: He never responded
to the question.
-Absolutely.

522
00:24:39.667 --> 00:24:41.375
-It's coming back to--
-MICHELE: Basically, he said,

523
00:24:41.458 --> 00:24:43.125
"You need to go back
to the drawing board,"

524
00:24:43.208 --> 00:24:45.291
and the final lines were
something like,

525
00:24:45.375 --> 00:24:48.166
"In time, your works will find
its own friends."

526
00:24:48.250 --> 00:24:50.291
There you go, yes.

527
00:24:50.375 --> 00:24:52.750
And I didn't ask them
for a critique.

528
00:24:52.834 --> 00:24:57.125
I-- I-- I was-- I had
all the credentials they had
and more.

529
00:24:57.208 --> 00:24:58.959
SARAH: The fact that
Norman Lewis is part of it,

530
00:24:59.041 --> 00:25:00.583
for me,
is an important signal here.

531
00:25:00.667 --> 00:25:03.458
Norman Lewis asked
a question of those gathered

532
00:25:03.542 --> 00:25:07.250
at one of the meetings,
"Is there a negro image?"

533
00:25:07.333 --> 00:25:09.333
is how he put it.

534
00:25:09.417 --> 00:25:13.375
What is a Black aesthetic?
Is there one? Right?

535
00:25:13.458 --> 00:25:16.333
The fact that Norman Lewis
was asking the question
for me is interesting

536
00:25:16.417 --> 00:25:18.709
because if you teach
the history of modernism,

537
00:25:18.792 --> 00:25:21.458
you have to teach about
Normal Lewis' work.

538
00:25:21.542 --> 00:25:24.250
He becomes a kind of metaphor
for how difficult it is

539
00:25:24.333 --> 00:25:26.041
to engage with
Black abstraction.

540
00:25:26.125 --> 00:25:28.917
Norman Lewis was one
of the artists from Spiral.

541
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:31.000
He was involved
with spiritual painting.

542
00:25:31.083 --> 00:25:33.458
You're not painting
on the canvas,

543
00:25:33.542 --> 00:25:34.834
you're inside the canvas,

544
00:25:34.917 --> 00:25:37.083
you're inside the painting,
painting out.

545
00:25:37.166 --> 00:25:40.458
When I met this group,
it wasn't just artists.

546
00:25:40.542 --> 00:25:41.875
It was composers and writers,

547
00:25:41.959 --> 00:25:44.583
and those who came
and met with this group.

548
00:25:44.667 --> 00:25:45.959
And that was fantastic.

549
00:25:47.291 --> 00:25:50.333
Reginald Gammon was
a-- a graphic designer.

550
00:25:50.417 --> 00:25:53.041
He taught Romare Bearden
how to do paste-ups,

551
00:25:53.125 --> 00:25:57.792
cut out Xerox pieces
and pasting them together.

552
00:25:57.875 --> 00:26:01.250
That was the first
Romare Bearden collage.

553
00:26:01.333 --> 00:26:04.834
Now, the gallery saw what
Romare Bearden was doing

554
00:26:04.917 --> 00:26:06.208
and they clapped and applauded

555
00:26:06.291 --> 00:26:09.875
the fact that, "Oh, this is what
you should continue to do."

556
00:26:09.959 --> 00:26:12.208
So he took off in that direction

557
00:26:12.291 --> 00:26:13.458
and that was the beginning

558
00:26:13.542 --> 00:26:16.667
of the whole collage development
that was taking place.

559
00:26:16.750 --> 00:26:18.917
The story that I've heard
is that Romy, um,

560
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:24.375
brought this brown bag of scraps
to one of the meetings one day,

561
00:26:24.458 --> 00:26:26.709
and he tried to get
some of the artists

562
00:26:26.792 --> 00:26:28.583
interested in doing a collage.

563
00:26:28.667 --> 00:26:32.083
Uh, Norman Lewis,
Emma Amos, Mayhew,

564
00:26:32.166 --> 00:26:36.041
and-- and he said none of them
could really--
were really into it.

565
00:26:36.125 --> 00:26:38.750
Um, he said they all were doing
their own thing.

566
00:26:38.834 --> 00:26:40.750
And he didn't mean
that pejoratively,

567
00:26:40.834 --> 00:26:42.458
he just meant
that nobody was interested

568
00:26:42.542 --> 00:26:44.583
in this collaborative work.

569
00:26:44.667 --> 00:26:48.709
So Romy continued to work
on his collages.

570
00:26:48.792 --> 00:26:52.083
And one of the artists
from Spiral came

571
00:26:52.166 --> 00:26:54.125
and saw the work and said,

572
00:26:54.208 --> 00:26:56.458
"You know what?"
That-- it was Reginald Gammon.

573
00:26:56.542 --> 00:26:59.375
He said, "You ought to
photograph that and blow it up."

574
00:26:59.458 --> 00:27:04.458
And so that's how he came upon
taking those small collages

575
00:27:04.542 --> 00:27:05.792
and blowing them up.

576
00:27:05.875 --> 00:27:09.834
And they became his projections,
which was the work that, um,

577
00:27:09.917 --> 00:27:13.041
he really-- really, uh--
It was a milestone for him.

578
00:27:23.458 --> 00:27:27.083
DAVID: I started working on
this piece last week,

579
00:27:27.166 --> 00:27:32.041
and, uh, wasn't sure as to
where I was gonna take it.

580
00:27:34.250 --> 00:27:38.750
Bearden was the main
inspiration for my collage work.

581
00:27:38.834 --> 00:27:44.583
And, uh,
I did a piece in-- in the 70s...

582
00:27:45.917 --> 00:27:48.875
after he came to visit me
at Fisk.

583
00:27:50.166 --> 00:27:54.208
And I called it
Homage to-- to Bearden.

584
00:27:55.417 --> 00:27:59.667
And, uh, I exhibited it
in New York in 1980.

585
00:27:59.750 --> 00:28:02.083
He came to the exhibition
and he saw it.

586
00:28:03.166 --> 00:28:04.208
And, uh...

587
00:28:05.417 --> 00:28:11.166
he said, uh, "I'm taken
with the notion that you

588
00:28:11.250 --> 00:28:14.959
like what I do well enough
to kind of celebrate it."

589
00:28:15.041 --> 00:28:20.125
He said, "But what you're
doing there is not David,

590
00:28:20.208 --> 00:28:23.000
it's-- it's more of Romy."

591
00:28:23.083 --> 00:28:27.083
And he went over to another
piece that I had done...

592
00:28:27.166 --> 00:28:29.375
(CLEARS THROAT)

593
00:28:29.458 --> 00:28:31.750
in which I had
torn the pieces, you know,

594
00:28:31.834 --> 00:28:35.417
he cut his out a lot.
I had torn the pieces.

595
00:28:36.458 --> 00:28:38.667
And he said, "Now that's--

596
00:28:38.750 --> 00:28:42.041
You're using collage there,
and that's you."

597
00:28:42.125 --> 00:28:44.291
He said, "That's your voice."

598
00:28:44.375 --> 00:28:47.667
And, you know, only a friend
would tell you that.

599
00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:53.709
Hilton Kramer,
who was the art critic

600
00:28:53.792 --> 00:28:55.000
for the New York Times

601
00:28:55.083 --> 00:28:56.500
has had a rather mixed review
of your show,

602
00:28:56.583 --> 00:28:58.959
saying that it was not generally
of the highest quality.

603
00:28:59.041 --> 00:29:01.000
-Does that disappoint you?
-No, not at all.

604
00:29:01.083 --> 00:29:04.291
I expect that from
what one refers to
as a mainstream critic.

605
00:29:04.375 --> 00:29:07.375
Uh, because in many cases,
these persons are not familiar

606
00:29:07.458 --> 00:29:09.709
with what we might refer to
as a Black experience,

607
00:29:09.792 --> 00:29:12.583
they never had the experience
of knowing what it was like

608
00:29:12.667 --> 00:29:17.083
to, uh, suffer injustices, uh--
Knowing what it's like to live

609
00:29:17.166 --> 00:29:18.750
in the poverty that many
of these artists

610
00:29:18.834 --> 00:29:20.542
have experienced,
and consequently,

611
00:29:20.625 --> 00:29:22.959
they have no real sensitivity.
No real feel

612
00:29:23.041 --> 00:29:24.750
for what it has taken
for these artists

613
00:29:24.834 --> 00:29:27.834
to achieve what they've, uh,
achieved at this time.

614
00:29:27.917 --> 00:29:31.917
I got to throw out props to--
to David Driskell at this moment

615
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.750
because he got all sorts of
flak from the New York Times,

616
00:29:36.834 --> 00:29:38.792
from various mainstream media.

617
00:29:38.875 --> 00:29:42.291
People-- People who are
supposedly authorities on art,

618
00:29:42.375 --> 00:29:46.417
who did not know anything
about African American art,

619
00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:49.583
and he provides this
very, very important lesson

620
00:29:49.667 --> 00:29:52.375
on looking at African American
art historically,

621
00:29:52.458 --> 00:29:55.709
looking at African American art
in a more complex way...

622
00:29:55.792 --> 00:29:58.583
And he fought, you know,
real resistance

623
00:29:58.667 --> 00:30:00.291
on the parts of institutions

624
00:30:00.375 --> 00:30:02.667
to say there is something else
that we can show.

625
00:30:02.750 --> 00:30:04.792
There is something else
that we can engage with

626
00:30:04.875 --> 00:30:07.041
that shows a much
more complex side

627
00:30:07.125 --> 00:30:09.625
of both modernism
and American art.

628
00:30:09.709 --> 00:30:13.083
No one had been accustomed
to seeing Black artists,

629
00:30:13.166 --> 00:30:15.375
Black historians on television

630
00:30:15.458 --> 00:30:18.000
talking about Black art.
They'd say, "Black art?

631
00:30:18.083 --> 00:30:21.125
What is it?"
Even the critics, Hilton Kramer,

632
00:30:21.208 --> 00:30:23.458
who was just so taken
with the notion

633
00:30:23.542 --> 00:30:27.041
that we had the audacity
to be talking about Black art.

634
00:30:27.125 --> 00:30:28.625
And my response was,

635
00:30:28.709 --> 00:30:30.875
"Hilton Kramer?
Who is Hilton Kramer?"

636
00:30:30.959 --> 00:30:32.792
It wasn't an exhibition
that was supposed

637
00:30:32.875 --> 00:30:34.667
to do everything for everybody.

638
00:30:34.750 --> 00:30:36.333
It wasn't supposed
to include everybody.

639
00:30:36.417 --> 00:30:38.083
It was supposed to be
a cross section of work

640
00:30:38.166 --> 00:30:39.583
that had been made in
the United States

641
00:30:39.667 --> 00:30:42.792
over the past 200--
over the 200 years up
until that time.

642
00:30:42.875 --> 00:30:46.375
The selection process
was not an easy one.

643
00:30:46.458 --> 00:30:51.500
Uh, first of all, you realize
that you're gonna be

644
00:30:51.583 --> 00:30:56.208
subjecting yourself to criticism
because people are gonna say,

645
00:30:56.291 --> 00:30:58.083
"Why did you leave
such and such a person out?"

646
00:30:58.166 --> 00:31:00.166
"Why did you choose this one
over that one?"

647
00:31:00.250 --> 00:31:01.458
I mean you have to accept that

648
00:31:01.542 --> 00:31:03.667
when a curator does
an exhibition sometimes,

649
00:31:03.750 --> 00:31:05.917
I mean, they-- By definition,
it's gonna be limited

650
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.125
to the scope that
the curator has imagined.

651
00:31:08.208 --> 00:31:12.667
And if it doesn't include
everything I like,

652
00:31:12.750 --> 00:31:14.750
that's not particularly
problematic for me

653
00:31:14.834 --> 00:31:16.375
because I expect
that there would be

654
00:31:16.458 --> 00:31:18.500
other exhibitions to follow.

655
00:31:18.583 --> 00:31:20.291
I think it was probably

656
00:31:20.375 --> 00:31:23.458
the first major
modern exhibition...

657
00:31:24.583 --> 00:31:25.709
uh...

658
00:31:25.792 --> 00:31:29.458
which brought
the Black subject period

659
00:31:29.542 --> 00:31:32.959
to the attention
of the American public.

660
00:31:33.041 --> 00:31:38.458
I came up with the notion that
in order to do it properly

661
00:31:38.542 --> 00:31:40.875
and to do it historically,

662
00:31:40.959 --> 00:31:44.709
I ought to talk about
the fine arts tradition

663
00:31:44.792 --> 00:31:47.834
of portrait artists, and artists
like Joshua Johnston

664
00:31:47.917 --> 00:31:53.500
from Baltimore
in the late 1700s, early 1800s.

665
00:31:53.583 --> 00:31:58.250
The assumption was
that Black artists, uh...

666
00:31:58.333 --> 00:32:00.166
There were no Black artists,
first of all,

667
00:32:00.250 --> 00:32:02.250
but those who considered
themselves artists

668
00:32:02.333 --> 00:32:07.250
were not capable,
intellectually or practically,

669
00:32:07.333 --> 00:32:09.583
of delivering a product

670
00:32:09.667 --> 00:32:12.917
that fitted the so-called
European canon.

671
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:18.166
And so when artists
like Johnston came along,

672
00:32:18.250 --> 00:32:20.583
people started buying
his portraits.

673
00:32:20.667 --> 00:32:23.333
Artists like Robert Duncanson
came along

674
00:32:23.417 --> 00:32:25.625
and people saw the beautiful
landscape and said,

675
00:32:25.709 --> 00:32:27.917
"Oh, he's painting within
the boundaries

676
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.458
of the Hudson River School
tradition."

677
00:32:30.542 --> 00:32:32.625
Edward Mitchell Bannister
a little later,

678
00:32:32.709 --> 00:32:35.083
and they said, "Well,
he is very much like

679
00:32:35.166 --> 00:32:37.667
the Barbizon painters
out of France."

680
00:32:38.959 --> 00:32:41.166
RADCLIFFE BAILEY: Those artists
from the past really

681
00:32:41.250 --> 00:32:42.917
influenced my work.

682
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:45.125
But I think
it's important for us,

683
00:32:45.208 --> 00:32:48.166
those that are younger,
to constantly mention

684
00:32:48.250 --> 00:32:49.792
and bring up the names

685
00:32:49.875 --> 00:32:53.166
of those that have
opened doors before us.

686
00:32:53.250 --> 00:32:54.959
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

687
00:32:55.041 --> 00:32:57.417
RADCLIFFE: I am an artist,
Black artist.

688
00:32:57.500 --> 00:32:58.875
African American artist.

689
00:32:58.959 --> 00:33:00.917
And I am an artist
just in general.

690
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:03.500
I wanted to go to collage
and play baseball.

691
00:33:03.583 --> 00:33:04.917
I wanted to play ball.

692
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.542
Then I realized
that that was a dream.

693
00:33:07.625 --> 00:33:12.041
And, um, I went back towards
where my mother guided me.

694
00:33:12.125 --> 00:33:14.458
And I ended up
going to art school.

695
00:33:14.542 --> 00:33:15.792
I went to art school thinking

696
00:33:15.875 --> 00:33:18.625
that I was going to study
something like graphic design.

697
00:33:18.709 --> 00:33:21.875
And then I heard a lecture, um,
from an artist.

698
00:33:21.959 --> 00:33:23.625
And I remember...

699
00:33:23.709 --> 00:33:25.875
hearing about the artist
talking about his work

700
00:33:25.959 --> 00:33:28.834
and he was having so much fun
that I said, "No,

701
00:33:28.917 --> 00:33:32.333
I need to make-- make art,
make objects."

702
00:33:32.417 --> 00:33:35.917
And then I just went
full throttle towards it.

703
00:33:40.583 --> 00:33:44.125
I see myself as a vessel
and things come through me.

704
00:33:48.917 --> 00:33:51.291
I found an old piano shop
in my neighborhood,

705
00:33:51.375 --> 00:33:54.417
and I just remember these guys
tearing out these piano keys

706
00:33:54.500 --> 00:33:55.792
and throwing them away.

707
00:33:55.875 --> 00:33:59.333
And it just struck me like,
"No, don't throw those away."

708
00:33:59.417 --> 00:34:05.625
So I collected maybe about...
close to 500 sets of piano keys.

709
00:34:05.709 --> 00:34:08.417
And, uh, I didn't know what
I was gonna do with them.

710
00:34:08.500 --> 00:34:10.291
But I remember bringing
them in the studio

711
00:34:10.375 --> 00:34:12.792
and dropping them on the floor.

712
00:34:12.875 --> 00:34:16.166
And right then and there,
that was the piece.

713
00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:25.667
And, uh, the piano keys
basically turned into ocean.

714
00:34:25.750 --> 00:34:28.208
And-- and I was thinking about
the connections

715
00:34:28.291 --> 00:34:29.542
between the oceans.

716
00:34:29.625 --> 00:34:32.709
So it was a combination of that,
plus the experiences of me

717
00:34:32.792 --> 00:34:35.208
as a kid going fishing
with my father.

718
00:34:35.291 --> 00:34:37.542
And my father would go so far
out into the sea

719
00:34:37.625 --> 00:34:39.709
to a point where
we couldn't see land.

720
00:34:39.792 --> 00:34:42.792
And it just reminded me of that
experience of being lonely,

721
00:34:42.875 --> 00:34:44.375
but that's also based on those

722
00:34:44.458 --> 00:34:48.583
that were lost at sea, um,
during the Middle Passage.

723
00:34:48.667 --> 00:34:52.750
And the figure itself
was like a bust that is, uh...

724
00:34:52.834 --> 00:34:54.667
It was like a death mask.

725
00:35:01.583 --> 00:35:04.333
He loves the materials
that he's using.

726
00:35:04.417 --> 00:35:07.417
And it's paint and it's glass,
and it's photographs,

727
00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:09.291
and it's bit of paper,
and it's fabric.

728
00:35:09.375 --> 00:35:11.083
And he has an ability to

729
00:35:11.166 --> 00:35:13.709
bring all of those
fragments together.

730
00:35:13.792 --> 00:35:17.959
It's telling a story.
It's telling us about our past.

731
00:35:18.041 --> 00:35:20.542
And it's telling us something
about where we're going.

732
00:35:20.625 --> 00:35:22.583
Radcliffe Bailey, for me,
kind of represents

733
00:35:22.667 --> 00:35:26.417
the wonder and joy, uh,
of an artist.

734
00:35:26.500 --> 00:35:28.542
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

735
00:35:31.333 --> 00:35:32.792
RADCLIFFE:
This is where I pray.

736
00:35:32.875 --> 00:35:35.959
This is where I think about
the future.

737
00:35:36.041 --> 00:35:40.959
I think about the past,
I ask questions.

738
00:35:41.041 --> 00:35:45.333
I have to separate myself
from everyday life...

739
00:35:46.917 --> 00:35:48.125
when I start working.

740
00:35:48.208 --> 00:35:52.583
So I have to tune out everybody,
everyone.

741
00:35:52.667 --> 00:35:56.375
Um, it's usually sometimes--
it's in the middle of the night.

742
00:35:56.458 --> 00:35:58.125
It's probably around midnight.

743
00:35:58.208 --> 00:35:59.792
And then I kinda come in here

744
00:35:59.875 --> 00:36:02.417
when I can actually hear
nothing moving around.

745
00:36:03.250 --> 00:36:05.375
I just wanna create beauty.

746
00:36:24.667 --> 00:36:26.750
Oil painting is about light.

747
00:36:26.834 --> 00:36:30.333
The obsession with light
is at once visual,

748
00:36:30.417 --> 00:36:31.625
religious and erotic.

749
00:36:34.125 --> 00:36:37.667
♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

750
00:36:37.750 --> 00:36:41.667
The fact that you could take
a hairy stick and colored paste

751
00:36:41.750 --> 00:36:45.500
and through the act
of your mind and your hand,

752
00:36:45.583 --> 00:36:49.834
you cook something
into being that-- that stands in

753
00:36:49.917 --> 00:36:52.750
as a representative
of someone that you love.

754
00:36:52.834 --> 00:36:55.125
A landscape that you like.

755
00:36:55.208 --> 00:36:58.208
There is something al--
It's like alchemy.

756
00:36:58.291 --> 00:37:02.000
This week,
the official portraits
of former president Barack Obama

757
00:37:02.083 --> 00:37:03.959
and his wife Michelle
were revealed.

758
00:37:04.041 --> 00:37:05.375
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS)

759
00:37:05.458 --> 00:37:08.083
To be the first
African American painter,

760
00:37:08.166 --> 00:37:11.041
to paint the first
African American president

761
00:37:11.125 --> 00:37:14.667
of the United States
is absolutely overwhelming.

762
00:37:14.750 --> 00:37:15.834
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS)

763
00:37:15.917 --> 00:37:18.917
I think that canvas portrait
of Obama

764
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:22.834
in the National Portrait Gallery
is, um...

765
00:37:22.917 --> 00:37:26.417
it's both-- it's both beautiful
and it's a challenge.

766
00:37:26.500 --> 00:37:30.792
What I was always struck by,
whenever I saw his portraits...

767
00:37:30.875 --> 00:37:35.166
was the degree to which
they challenged

768
00:37:35.250 --> 00:37:38.125
our conventional views
of power and privilege.

769
00:37:41.834 --> 00:37:43.750
MAURICE: There's
something about that portrait

770
00:37:43.834 --> 00:37:48.250
which is really, um,
rich and full and exciting

771
00:37:48.333 --> 00:37:50.917
in a way that none of the other
portrait of presidents are.

772
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:53.166
I-- I googled portraits
of presidents

773
00:37:53.250 --> 00:37:56.417
and there they were.
All of them.

774
00:37:56.500 --> 00:37:59.083
All of the terrible, terrible
portraits of presidents

775
00:37:59.166 --> 00:38:03.542
and they were mostly really
conservative and really boring,
and--

776
00:38:03.625 --> 00:38:07.333
And it got me thinking
about how really far

777
00:38:07.417 --> 00:38:09.000
the envelope got pushed.

778
00:38:09.083 --> 00:38:12.000
I think what Kehinde understood
was the stakes were different.

779
00:38:12.083 --> 00:38:13.750
When you have two centuries

780
00:38:13.834 --> 00:38:16.709
of straight, white men
who are president,

781
00:38:16.792 --> 00:38:18.417
and then you have Barack Obama,

782
00:38:18.500 --> 00:38:20.083
that portrait better
be different.

783
00:38:20.166 --> 00:38:24.458
There were a number of issues
that we were trying
to negotiate, um...

784
00:38:24.542 --> 00:38:27.250
I tried to negotiate
less grey hair.

785
00:38:27.333 --> 00:38:30.250
I tried to negotiate
smaller ears.

786
00:38:30.333 --> 00:38:31.959
(AUDIENCE LAUGHS)

787
00:38:32.041 --> 00:38:34.709
-BARACK OBAMA:
Struck out on that as well.
-(AUDIENCE LAUGHS)

788
00:38:34.792 --> 00:38:36.667
I showed up in 2016

789
00:38:36.750 --> 00:38:38.750
while he was still
in the Oval office.

790
00:38:38.834 --> 00:38:40.208
Incredibly nervous.

791
00:38:40.291 --> 00:38:44.208
Uh, and trying to get words out
to communicate what it is

792
00:38:44.291 --> 00:38:46.166
that I could bring
to the picture that's new.

793
00:38:46.250 --> 00:38:47.500
That's different
from those paintings

794
00:38:47.583 --> 00:38:49.208
that you see in the museums

795
00:38:49.291 --> 00:38:51.458
and that's different
from all the contemporary art

796
00:38:51.542 --> 00:38:53.125
that you see today.

797
00:38:53.208 --> 00:38:55.166
I think I must have
said something right

798
00:38:55.250 --> 00:38:56.792
because I got the gig.

799
00:38:56.875 --> 00:39:01.792
But ultimately, uh, what I tried
to communicate was that

800
00:39:01.875 --> 00:39:05.291
I will be looking not only
at the presidency,

801
00:39:05.375 --> 00:39:07.291
or the history
of received power,

802
00:39:07.375 --> 00:39:09.792
or the evolution
of power's form,

803
00:39:09.875 --> 00:39:12.834
but rather, I would be looking
at him as a man.

804
00:39:12.917 --> 00:39:15.750
His physical presence
in the world.

805
00:39:18.417 --> 00:39:22.291
(AUDIENCE APPLAUDS)

806
00:39:24.333 --> 00:39:26.250
The first thing I did when
I found out that--

807
00:39:26.333 --> 00:39:27.542
that I was chosen

808
00:39:27.625 --> 00:39:29.583
was I'd go online and, like,
look at the millions of images

809
00:39:29.667 --> 00:39:31.667
of Michelle
and the kind of person

810
00:39:31.750 --> 00:39:35.542
that she presented to the world,
and then, you know,

811
00:39:35.625 --> 00:39:38.041
wanting to capture something
really private.

812
00:39:38.125 --> 00:39:40.375
It's about capturing that moment

813
00:39:40.458 --> 00:39:42.125
when they're giving you
something different,

814
00:39:42.208 --> 00:39:43.709
or where they're a little
more relaxed,

815
00:39:43.792 --> 00:39:46.041
and that can happen
in a split second.

816
00:39:46.125 --> 00:39:48.208
BERNARD LUMPKIN: Amy Sherald
did not become a household name

817
00:39:48.291 --> 00:39:51.375
until she painted the portrait
of the First Lady
Michelle Obama.

818
00:39:51.458 --> 00:39:54.125
Tell us how game-changing
this moment is?

819
00:39:54.208 --> 00:39:56.709
I am relieved... (CHUCKLES)

820
00:39:56.792 --> 00:40:00.792
that, um, I can pay back
my school loans.

821
00:40:00.875 --> 00:40:02.375
You know, it's something that--

822
00:40:02.458 --> 00:40:04.208
I mean becoming an artist
is not empirical,

823
00:40:04.291 --> 00:40:07.166
so it's not about hard work.
I mean, you have to
put the work in,

824
00:40:07.250 --> 00:40:08.875
but that doesn't mean that
you're going to make it

825
00:40:08.959 --> 00:40:10.792
and then the breakthrough comes
and then you're like,

826
00:40:10.875 --> 00:40:13.709
"Oh yeah, that's who I am.
Like, this is who I am. Yeah."

827
00:40:13.792 --> 00:40:16.041
With that commission...

828
00:40:16.125 --> 00:40:21.959
Amy, literally inspired
by the person Michelle Obama,

829
00:40:22.041 --> 00:40:26.417
creates this image which is not
only deeply Michelle Obama,

830
00:40:26.500 --> 00:40:28.250
I mean that is her--
You know, the whole...

831
00:40:28.333 --> 00:40:31.667
Her whole gesture, the whole--
the beautiful fashion.

832
00:40:31.750 --> 00:40:35.625
She created such an incredible
image of a powerful,

833
00:40:35.709 --> 00:40:37.583
beautiful Black woman.

834
00:40:37.667 --> 00:40:41.917
It's become a--
an international symbol.

835
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:46.333
That-- That-- And that shows
the power of an image.

836
00:40:46.417 --> 00:40:48.250
Here's part of what
the former First Lady,

837
00:40:48.333 --> 00:40:50.250
Michelle Obama, said at
the unveiling of her portrait.

838
00:40:50.333 --> 00:40:52.375
-Sure.
-Take a listen.

839
00:40:52.458 --> 00:40:55.417
I am also thinking about
all of the young people,

840
00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:58.834
uh, particularly girls
and girls of color...

841
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.250
who, in years ahead,
will come to this place

842
00:41:03.333 --> 00:41:06.458
and they will look up
and they will see an image

843
00:41:06.542 --> 00:41:10.250
of someone who looks like them
hanging on the wall

844
00:41:10.333 --> 00:41:12.750
of this great
American institution.

845
00:41:12.834 --> 00:41:15.208
AMY SHERALD: I think for me,
little Parker Curry,

846
00:41:15.291 --> 00:41:17.458
being captivated
by that image of Michelle

847
00:41:17.542 --> 00:41:19.375
and seeing her
own greatness in it

848
00:41:19.458 --> 00:41:21.375
and being able to go
into a space

849
00:41:21.458 --> 00:41:23.041
and realize that
there were people

850
00:41:23.125 --> 00:41:26.250
that existed before her,
whose legacies were so great

851
00:41:26.333 --> 00:41:28.375
that they've been archived
in this institution,

852
00:41:28.458 --> 00:41:29.750
and it was a woman.

853
00:41:29.834 --> 00:41:32.291
Um, for her to walk away
with that sense

854
00:41:32.375 --> 00:41:33.959
of being is really important.

855
00:41:34.041 --> 00:41:36.250
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

856
00:41:39.291 --> 00:41:41.667
AMY: I see myself as
an American realist,

857
00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:45.166
which maybe some people
would disagree with.

858
00:41:45.250 --> 00:41:47.458
My artistic process,
the impetus of it,

859
00:41:47.542 --> 00:41:48.500
is really my life.

860
00:41:48.583 --> 00:41:50.458
I think
the most interesting work

861
00:41:50.542 --> 00:41:52.208
that is being made

862
00:41:52.291 --> 00:41:54.792
has that autobiographical
affect to it.

863
00:41:54.875 --> 00:41:57.333
It's really been about writing
a visual diary of me

864
00:41:57.417 --> 00:42:01.875
trying to figure out who I am
as a person, as an individual.

865
00:42:01.959 --> 00:42:04.834
I consider the people
in my paintings archetypes.

866
00:42:04.917 --> 00:42:07.834
They represent something
that's bigger

867
00:42:07.917 --> 00:42:10.250
than who they are
as an individual.

868
00:42:10.333 --> 00:42:12.250
It's important for me that

869
00:42:12.333 --> 00:42:14.417
they're just Black people
being Black.

870
00:42:16.083 --> 00:42:17.333
BERNARD:
There is something

871
00:42:17.417 --> 00:42:19.166
which people have written about
in Amy Sherald's paintings,

872
00:42:19.250 --> 00:42:21.083
which is the gaze.

873
00:42:21.166 --> 00:42:23.375
Her figures are often faced

874
00:42:23.458 --> 00:42:27.166
with a very strong,
fixed gaze at the viewer.

875
00:42:27.250 --> 00:42:30.625
And people have written a lot
about and she's talked about

876
00:42:30.709 --> 00:42:32.667
what that means
and what's happening there.

877
00:42:32.750 --> 00:42:34.875
And one of things
that's happening is

878
00:42:34.959 --> 00:42:37.333
she's depicting,
or representing,

879
00:42:37.417 --> 00:42:39.500
in some way, the gaze that,

880
00:42:39.583 --> 00:42:42.709
you know, of the--
the white, dominant culture

881
00:42:42.792 --> 00:42:44.375
has on-- has on Black bodies.

882
00:42:44.458 --> 00:42:46.625
That sense of always being
looked at

883
00:42:46.709 --> 00:42:48.291
through the eyes
of someone else.

884
00:42:48.375 --> 00:42:50.750
That sense of a doubleness
of identity.

885
00:42:50.834 --> 00:42:53.917
Your African self.
Your American self.

886
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.000
And so I think painters
are very interested

887
00:42:56.083 --> 00:42:57.709
in representing that gaze.

888
00:42:57.792 --> 00:43:00.083
The eyes tell you
what's in the soul and for me,

889
00:43:00.166 --> 00:43:01.458
the people that I paint,

890
00:43:01.542 --> 00:43:04.333
they're no longer themselves
in the painting.

891
00:43:04.417 --> 00:43:07.750
They are these archetypes
that know they are present.

892
00:43:07.834 --> 00:43:09.125
These aren't passive portraits.

893
00:43:09.208 --> 00:43:13.875
They're maybe subversively, um,
confrontational, if you will.

894
00:43:13.959 --> 00:43:18.250
But it's definitely a response
to a lot of images I saw
growing up

895
00:43:18.333 --> 00:43:20.417
where our gaze
was always averted,

896
00:43:20.500 --> 00:43:21.917
or thinking about the fact

897
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:26.792
that you couldn't look at
a white person in the eye.

898
00:43:26.875 --> 00:43:29.792
You know, so this is my way
of nodding my head

899
00:43:29.875 --> 00:43:33.166
to that narrative, and
empowering the image in a way.

900
00:43:33.250 --> 00:43:35.583
And so,
I like the paintings, um,

901
00:43:35.667 --> 00:43:37.750
hung a little lower
for that reason,

902
00:43:37.834 --> 00:43:41.583
so when the viewer walks up,
it's more of a...

903
00:43:41.667 --> 00:43:43.375
of a--
it's a different conversation.

904
00:43:43.458 --> 00:43:44.834
Like you're not
looking up at it.

905
00:43:44.917 --> 00:43:47.417
It's almost looking
directly at you.

906
00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:50.625
And I think that creates
a different kind of sensation.

907
00:43:50.709 --> 00:43:53.250
MARY: She gives us this image
of a person.

908
00:43:53.333 --> 00:43:55.542
And what's interesting
is that almost always,

909
00:43:55.625 --> 00:44:01.667
they're not painted in, um,
their actual skin tone.

910
00:44:01.750 --> 00:44:05.959
They may be kind of charcoal
or blueish.

911
00:44:06.041 --> 00:44:09.834
So already, she's alerted you
to the fact that,

912
00:44:09.917 --> 00:44:15.792
"I'm painting what appears to be
something that's super-real."

913
00:44:15.875 --> 00:44:17.917
But in fact,
I am giving you clues

914
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:23.792
that this is just an exterior
that has been constructed

915
00:44:23.875 --> 00:44:27.375
and that, in fact,
behind this exterior,

916
00:44:27.458 --> 00:44:30.291
there is also this world.

917
00:44:30.375 --> 00:44:33.208
So she puts
the exterior-interior, I think,

918
00:44:33.291 --> 00:44:36.458
into kind of a real tension
on her paintings.

919
00:44:36.542 --> 00:44:38.166
For that reason,
I can just stand in front

920
00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:43.000
of one of her paintings for,
you know, hours. (LAUGHS)

921
00:44:43.083 --> 00:44:45.875
I think a lot of galleries
are now picking up Black artists

922
00:44:45.959 --> 00:44:49.542
because there is this, you know,
like, gold rush.

923
00:44:49.625 --> 00:44:51.542
I say that it's because
we're making

924
00:44:51.625 --> 00:44:57.291
some of the best work
and the most relevant work.

925
00:44:57.375 --> 00:44:59.500
I think there is absolutely,
kind of,

926
00:44:59.583 --> 00:45:01.417
something happening right now,
but I'm also--

927
00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:06.166
I always really want to
not, kind of, make this moment

928
00:45:06.250 --> 00:45:07.834
seem so singular and special.

929
00:45:07.917 --> 00:45:10.166
Because I think we-- There have
always been Black artists.

930
00:45:10.250 --> 00:45:11.834
There have always been
Black curators.

931
00:45:11.917 --> 00:45:13.208
There have always been
Black collectors.

932
00:45:13.291 --> 00:45:16.542
They just perhaps have not been
part of the mainstream.

933
00:45:16.625 --> 00:45:19.709
♪ (HIP HOP MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

934
00:45:19.792 --> 00:45:21.041
♪ It's me, snitches ♪

935
00:45:21.125 --> 00:45:23.000
KASSEEM DEAN: Art and music
are brothers and sisters.

936
00:45:23.083 --> 00:45:24.750
I got into collecting
by accident.

937
00:45:24.834 --> 00:45:26.959
Collect what you feel.
Collect what you love.

938
00:45:27.041 --> 00:45:30.166
The Dean Collection is
promoting, uh, living artists.

939
00:45:30.250 --> 00:45:33.041
African Americans
have to tell our own story.

940
00:45:33.125 --> 00:45:34.875
The work is amazing.

941
00:45:34.959 --> 00:45:36.709
I am definitely
not just a collector.

942
00:45:36.792 --> 00:45:40.375
I love being a disruptive.
I love activism.

943
00:45:40.458 --> 00:45:41.500
Coming from the Bronx

944
00:45:41.583 --> 00:45:44.875
and coming into money,
uh, very early.

945
00:45:44.959 --> 00:45:47.083
I got the bug.
And then what I did was

946
00:45:47.166 --> 00:45:50.208
I started going around, uh,
to local galleries.

947
00:45:50.291 --> 00:45:53.583
Most of the galleries used to,
uh, not take me serious.

948
00:45:53.667 --> 00:45:55.709
Baggy pants, braids.

949
00:45:55.792 --> 00:45:58.542
But I didn't let that, um,
deter me.

950
00:45:58.625 --> 00:45:59.750
♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪

951
00:45:59.834 --> 00:46:02.542
MICHELE:
I admire Swizz Beatz and Alicia.

952
00:46:02.625 --> 00:46:06.542
Because Swizz has allowed
himself to be positioned

953
00:46:06.625 --> 00:46:10.917
as an African American collector
of African American art.

954
00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:13.667
And he and Alicia
are about the culture.

955
00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:16.500
Swizz and, um, Puff Daddy

956
00:46:16.583 --> 00:46:21.083
and, uh, Jay-Z and Beyoncé
are collecting now.

957
00:46:21.166 --> 00:46:24.083
Um, it really, um,
elevates the game.

958
00:46:24.166 --> 00:46:26.917
And there're a lot of people
who look at what they're doing

959
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:28.875
and what--
what is important to them.

960
00:46:28.959 --> 00:46:31.291
Over the last few years...

961
00:46:31.375 --> 00:46:35.000
uh, Swizz has built a collection
of Gordon Parks' photographs

962
00:46:35.083 --> 00:46:36.792
that is unequaled
in private hands.

963
00:46:36.875 --> 00:46:39.834
In fact, it is
the largest collection

964
00:46:39.917 --> 00:46:41.625
of Gordon Parks photographs.

965
00:46:41.709 --> 00:46:46.834
All we want to do is preserve
a piece of, uh, Gordon's legacy

966
00:46:46.917 --> 00:46:49.333
for the next generation
to have access to it.

967
00:46:50.375 --> 00:46:52.208
The Dean Collection
started out

968
00:46:52.291 --> 00:46:54.709
as this imaginary museum
for my kids.

969
00:46:56.041 --> 00:46:58.250
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

970
00:46:58.333 --> 00:47:00.041
KASSEEM:
And then, what happened was

971
00:47:00.125 --> 00:47:04.458
I started posting artists, um,
on my Instagram

972
00:47:04.542 --> 00:47:06.291
that people weren't
familiar with.

973
00:47:06.375 --> 00:47:10.625
And then I started getting, uh,
people writing me back saying,

974
00:47:10.709 --> 00:47:13.041
"Man, I appreciate you,
thank you," this, that.

975
00:47:13.125 --> 00:47:14.542
I'm like, "No,
thank you for what?"

976
00:47:14.625 --> 00:47:17.542
Like, "Your work is great."
"No, my show sold out.

977
00:47:17.625 --> 00:47:20.250
Galleries that wouldn't
talk to me are calling me now."

978
00:47:20.333 --> 00:47:22.959
Then I started understanding
the importance

979
00:47:23.709 --> 00:47:26.000
of promoting living artists.

980
00:47:26.083 --> 00:47:28.667
They used to laugh at me
for collecting art.

981
00:47:28.750 --> 00:47:31.166
I've been having fun with this
for 20 years.

982
00:47:31.250 --> 00:47:33.417
♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪

983
00:47:35.500 --> 00:47:38.500
KASSEEM: The Kaws piece
and the Kehinde piece

984
00:47:38.583 --> 00:47:39.709
were the two pieces

985
00:47:39.792 --> 00:47:42.834
that kinda, like, started
the Dean Collection.

986
00:47:42.917 --> 00:47:45.542
Nobody ever thought that this
sculpture would be in a house.

987
00:47:45.625 --> 00:47:48.083
This is the first time
a sculpture like this

988
00:47:48.166 --> 00:47:49.792
is under a roof.

989
00:47:49.875 --> 00:47:52.583
Well, this is-- this is
from the  Laying Down  series.

990
00:47:52.667 --> 00:47:55.083
The fact that somebody's hand,
like the t--

991
00:47:55.166 --> 00:47:57.333
A human's hand, did this,

992
00:47:57.417 --> 00:48:00.208
and it looked like
he just did it yesterday.

993
00:48:00.291 --> 00:48:02.000
I can't show this piece enough.

994
00:48:03.542 --> 00:48:05.041
You know, we put
the Dean Collection museum

995
00:48:05.125 --> 00:48:09.208
on our property, uh,
so the public can--
can see the collection.

996
00:48:09.291 --> 00:48:10.875
This is Hank Willis' ball.

997
00:48:10.959 --> 00:48:14.000
We have artist of all colors
from all around the world.

998
00:48:14.083 --> 00:48:16.250
When someone buys your work,

999
00:48:16.333 --> 00:48:20.375
it's not ever really about
the money for an artist,

1000
00:48:20.458 --> 00:48:22.375
it's about the vote
of confidence.

1001
00:48:22.458 --> 00:48:26.125
It's really someone saying,
"Keep doing what you're doing.

1002
00:48:26.208 --> 00:48:28.542
I'm making space for you
to make new things."

1003
00:48:28.625 --> 00:48:32.834
And what's exciting about
Karen Jenkins-Johnson,

1004
00:48:32.917 --> 00:48:35.291
Swizz Beatz, uh, Bernard Lumpkin

1005
00:48:35.375 --> 00:48:39.083
and many, many amazing
African American collectors

1006
00:48:39.166 --> 00:48:42.083
that I've gotten to engage
with over the years,

1007
00:48:42.166 --> 00:48:46.041
is that they have a--
a joy, a verve,

1008
00:48:46.125 --> 00:48:48.834
um, an enthusiasm for the work,

1009
00:48:48.917 --> 00:48:51.458
um, that really is affirming,

1010
00:48:51.542 --> 00:48:53.375
that really
gives you confidence.

1011
00:48:53.458 --> 00:48:55.458
I think
it's absolutely necessary

1012
00:48:55.542 --> 00:49:00.291
that Black people with money
buy African American art.

1013
00:49:00.375 --> 00:49:02.041
VALERIE:
It's important when they see

1014
00:49:02.125 --> 00:49:04.709
Beyoncé and Jay-Z in The Louvre.

1015
00:49:04.792 --> 00:49:07.834
It's important when they know
that P. Diddy

1016
00:49:07.917 --> 00:49:11.291
has acquired a
Kerry James Marshall.

1017
00:49:11.375 --> 00:49:15.375
They see the people that they
celebrate and admire doing that,

1018
00:49:15.458 --> 00:49:17.709
and hopefully,
that is an imprinting.

1019
00:49:17.792 --> 00:49:21.208
Art is to be collected.
It is to be lived with.

1020
00:49:21.291 --> 00:49:23.750
It's part of a quality of life.

1021
00:49:23.834 --> 00:49:26.792
The collectors,
or the patrons, or supporters

1022
00:49:26.875 --> 00:49:30.667
of really good art, really have
to have a kind of a vision.

1023
00:49:30.750 --> 00:49:33.166
And have to have a kind
of a mindset that says,

1024
00:49:33.250 --> 00:49:36.667
"I want to engage with something
that-- that may not be

1025
00:49:36.750 --> 00:49:39.000
universally appreciated
or loved,

1026
00:49:39.083 --> 00:49:41.625
but I see power in that,
I see potential in."

1027
00:49:41.709 --> 00:49:45.125
I'm always grateful
that people collect my work, um,

1028
00:49:45.208 --> 00:49:48.875
but I'm also grateful
when people give museums,

1029
00:49:48.959 --> 00:49:54.625
institutions, funds to bring
that work
into public collections.

1030
00:49:54.709 --> 00:49:58.750
Because that's the way that,
you know, I, as a young artist,

1031
00:49:58.834 --> 00:49:59.917
got to see the work.

1032
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.542
Not in people's houses,
but in museums, you know.

1033
00:50:03.625 --> 00:50:06.333
So I think its super important
that Black collectors,

1034
00:50:06.417 --> 00:50:10.333
or any collectors really,
think about public institutions.

1035
00:50:10.417 --> 00:50:12.750
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1036
00:50:15.083 --> 00:50:17.000
FRED WILSON:
I go into an institution

1037
00:50:17.083 --> 00:50:20.000
and just absorb that place.

1038
00:50:20.083 --> 00:50:22.709
Uh, and for me, it's about
looking at everything

1039
00:50:22.792 --> 00:50:23.875
and talking to everybody.

1040
00:50:23.959 --> 00:50:25.792
I look at their collections
as much as I can,

1041
00:50:25.875 --> 00:50:29.583
and I talk to everybody from
the, you know, the maintenance

1042
00:50:29.667 --> 00:50:31.333
to the chairman of the board.

1043
00:50:31.417 --> 00:50:34.875
It's often not what anyone says
specifically, in--

1044
00:50:34.959 --> 00:50:37.291
in conversation,
it's what they don't say,

1045
00:50:37.375 --> 00:50:39.875
that gives me some, you know,

1046
00:50:39.959 --> 00:50:42.166
ideas about what's going on
in the museum

1047
00:50:42.250 --> 00:50:44.834
that creates the image
that the public sees.

1048
00:50:44.917 --> 00:50:47.083
I'm just using the museum
as my palette, basically.

1049
00:50:47.166 --> 00:50:48.417
I usually have a notebook

1050
00:50:48.500 --> 00:50:52.542
and I just write down things
during the period of research.

1051
00:50:52.625 --> 00:50:55.208
It's, you know, things that
I see, that I want to see again,

1052
00:50:55.291 --> 00:50:56.792
objects, images.

1053
00:50:56.875 --> 00:50:59.667
And so, from that,
I build the exhibition.

1054
00:50:59.750 --> 00:51:01.542
What you see or view
is one thing

1055
00:51:01.625 --> 00:51:04.041
but what people have
in storage...

1056
00:51:04.125 --> 00:51:05.709
you know,
can be entirely different.

1057
00:51:05.792 --> 00:51:07.125
It brings up questions.

1058
00:51:07.208 --> 00:51:10.166
Whereas the public only sees
what is created for them

1059
00:51:10.250 --> 00:51:13.083
and those--
those kind of incongruities

1060
00:51:13.166 --> 00:51:15.709
are all smoothed out.

1061
00:51:15.792 --> 00:51:18.333
And I'm seeing what's
not being discussed,

1062
00:51:18.417 --> 00:51:20.875
that may not be of interest
to the curator

1063
00:51:20.959 --> 00:51:22.500
or part of their scholarship.

1064
00:51:22.583 --> 00:51:25.208
It's the underbelly,
it's what the museum-- It is,

1065
00:51:25.291 --> 00:51:28.000
but it is not what they're--
they're putting out
to the public.

1066
00:51:28.083 --> 00:51:32.291
Museums now understand that they
need to tell a counternarrative

1067
00:51:32.375 --> 00:51:35.417
about American life
and about Black art.

1068
00:51:35.500 --> 00:51:38.583
They need to correct
what stories haven't been told

1069
00:51:38.667 --> 00:51:40.500
through their
collecting practices.

1070
00:51:40.583 --> 00:51:42.083
Through the displays that--

1071
00:51:42.166 --> 00:51:44.250
Through the exhibitions
that they've had.

1072
00:51:44.333 --> 00:51:47.500
♪ (HIP HOP MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1073
00:51:47.583 --> 00:51:50.333
KEHINDE WILEY:
In 1994, I was 17 years old

1074
00:51:50.417 --> 00:51:53.500
and I see Thelma Golden's
Black Male  exhibition.

1075
00:51:53.583 --> 00:51:55.250
And it was life changing.

1076
00:51:55.333 --> 00:51:58.375
Here for the first time,
you're seeing Black masculinity

1077
00:51:58.458 --> 00:52:01.250
not as something on television
that's menacing,

1078
00:52:01.333 --> 00:52:02.458
or at arm's length,

1079
00:52:02.542 --> 00:52:05.000
but rather artists embracing it
as the subject matter.

1080
00:52:05.083 --> 00:52:06.750
Another color on their palette.

1081
00:52:06.834 --> 00:52:08.041
It was mind blowing.

1082
00:52:08.125 --> 00:52:09.917
An exhibition that
really tore down

1083
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:12.291
the meaning
of the Black body itself.

1084
00:52:12.375 --> 00:52:15.709
GLENN LIGON: Thelma asked me
to participate in that show

1085
00:52:15.792 --> 00:52:18.250
at the Whitney.
It was all kinds of artists

1086
00:52:18.333 --> 00:52:21.208
of all races, all genders,
who were dealing with

1087
00:52:21.291 --> 00:52:24.041
Black muscularity
as a subject matter.

1088
00:52:24.125 --> 00:52:27.667
It was really, really engaged
with notions of identity,

1089
00:52:27.750 --> 00:52:31.625
but in a provocative way
around gender and sexuality

1090
00:52:31.709 --> 00:52:36.083
and race in this kind of
surreal melding and--
and fusion.

1091
00:52:36.166 --> 00:52:39.375
DAVID: There had been all
of this talk about

1092
00:52:39.458 --> 00:52:42.625
a negative aspect
of Black lifestyle,

1093
00:52:42.709 --> 00:52:44.709
and especially amongst men.

1094
00:52:44.792 --> 00:52:46.959
When an exhibition
was put together

1095
00:52:47.041 --> 00:52:52.041
which represented so much
of what people did not know...

1096
00:52:52.125 --> 00:52:56.083
about the African American male,
it was a shock.

1097
00:52:56.166 --> 00:52:57.583
And yet it was a revelation,

1098
00:52:57.667 --> 00:52:59.875
because nothing like that
had been presented

1099
00:52:59.959 --> 00:53:01.500
in the museum before.

1100
00:53:01.583 --> 00:53:04.667
To show the nuances, the beauty,

1101
00:53:04.750 --> 00:53:07.333
the allure and loathing,
if you will,

1102
00:53:07.417 --> 00:53:08.959
that comes with
the Black male body

1103
00:53:09.041 --> 00:53:10.917
in particular...

1104
00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:15.250
was very important to put that
into the larger conversation.

1105
00:53:16.333 --> 00:53:18.458
The fears
of otherness are so played out

1106
00:53:18.542 --> 00:53:21.333
most often around this notion
of Black masculinity,

1107
00:53:21.417 --> 00:53:24.000
that I think it's very important
that in looking at it,

1108
00:53:24.083 --> 00:53:29.333
we understand much of what comes
to be racism or even sexism

1109
00:53:29.417 --> 00:53:32.458
or even the homophobia
that exists in this culture.

1110
00:53:32.542 --> 00:53:34.041
MAURICE:
I think what a lot of people

1111
00:53:34.125 --> 00:53:36.333
don't remember,
even folks in the art world,

1112
00:53:36.417 --> 00:53:40.041
is that back in the early 90s,
it was still very difficult

1113
00:53:40.125 --> 00:53:44.000
to, uh, pull off a show
with African American content

1114
00:53:44.083 --> 00:53:46.208
at a mainstream art museum

1115
00:53:46.291 --> 00:53:48.458
mostly because the curators
in that museum

1116
00:53:48.542 --> 00:53:49.542
weren't interested

1117
00:53:49.625 --> 00:53:52.125
or, in the case of something
like Black Male,

1118
00:53:52.208 --> 00:53:55.125
it would engender controversy
in a very mixed audience.

1119
00:53:55.208 --> 00:53:58.625
It's an historical show. I mean,
it's a show that now has been,
you know,

1120
00:53:58.709 --> 00:54:00.834
in hindsight considered
highly historical

1121
00:54:00.917 --> 00:54:04.208
despite the reaction,
you know, at the time.

1122
00:54:04.291 --> 00:54:07.291
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1123
00:54:17.500 --> 00:54:21.333
There was a Lyle Ashton Harris
picture in the tutu,

1124
00:54:21.417 --> 00:54:24.959
which was incredibly disturbing
at the time

1125
00:54:25.041 --> 00:54:26.750
and alluring at once.

1126
00:54:26.834 --> 00:54:29.875
It-- It looked at the body
as a site of strength.

1127
00:54:29.959 --> 00:54:32.583
It looked at masculinity
as a site of performance.

1128
00:54:32.667 --> 00:54:35.583
It looked at femininity
as-- as an invention.

1129
00:54:35.667 --> 00:54:38.208
And it really threw open
this question of,

1130
00:54:38.291 --> 00:54:41.917
how does choice become
the central role of the artist?

1131
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.333
I think people were shocked, um,

1132
00:54:44.417 --> 00:54:48.875
by just the-- Maybe the boldness
and the rawness of the works.

1133
00:54:48.959 --> 00:54:50.417
It's speaking your truth.

1134
00:54:50.500 --> 00:54:53.709
It's not so much trying
to make the work stand out,

1135
00:54:53.792 --> 00:54:58.458
as opposed to trusting
your process, your ideas,

1136
00:54:58.542 --> 00:55:00.709
and your inner guidance.

1137
00:55:00.792 --> 00:55:03.458
I think, in retrospect,
people look back at Black Male,

1138
00:55:03.542 --> 00:55:05.834
and realized that Thelma
was really on to something.

1139
00:55:05.917 --> 00:55:09.125
And what came out of it
was a really definitive work

1140
00:55:09.208 --> 00:55:13.417
on the meaning of Blackness
and maleness in visual culture.

1141
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:14.583
♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪

1142
00:55:14.667 --> 00:55:17.125
MAURICE: In a survey
of major American museums,

1143
00:55:17.208 --> 00:55:20.959
it was determined
that 85 percent of artists

1144
00:55:21.041 --> 00:55:24.458
in major American art museum
collections are white.

1145
00:55:24.542 --> 00:55:27.291
If you break down the number
of artists of color

1146
00:55:27.375 --> 00:55:31.125
in those collections,
it's 1.2 percent Black.

1147
00:55:31.208 --> 00:55:34.375
If the person sitting
at the table
in a curatorial meeting,

1148
00:55:34.458 --> 00:55:37.333
or the people sitting
at that table are all white,

1149
00:55:37.417 --> 00:55:38.625
you're gonna have a problem.

1150
00:55:38.709 --> 00:55:40.625
You're gonna have a problem
of interpretation.

1151
00:55:40.709 --> 00:55:42.834
You're gonna have a problem
in terms of trying to figure out

1152
00:55:42.917 --> 00:55:44.417
what you're doing
right or wrong,

1153
00:55:44.500 --> 00:55:46.333
and most importantly,
you're gonna have a problem

1154
00:55:46.417 --> 00:55:49.166
in terms of the work
you're gonna select.

1155
00:55:49.250 --> 00:55:51.667
If all of the critics writing
are white,

1156
00:55:51.750 --> 00:55:54.208
the same problem exists...

1157
00:55:54.291 --> 00:55:58.166
until the institutions
become more diverse.

1158
00:55:58.250 --> 00:56:00.000
And it's happening.

1159
00:56:00.083 --> 00:56:03.875
You're beginning to see young
brilliant curators of color

1160
00:56:03.959 --> 00:56:06.750
assume pretty important roles
in American museums.

1161
00:56:06.834 --> 00:56:10.000
But until that happens
in a widespread way...

1162
00:56:10.083 --> 00:56:16.709
and-- or until white critics
and curators and journalists

1163
00:56:17.417 --> 00:56:19.125
look into themselves...

1164
00:56:20.709 --> 00:56:22.667
research the world around them,

1165
00:56:22.750 --> 00:56:25.125
and look into the past
openly and honestly

1166
00:56:25.208 --> 00:56:28.458
until they change,
until they're open minded,

1167
00:56:28.542 --> 00:56:30.917
it's not gonna change
as fast as it needs to.

1168
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.500
I feel like it is important
for us to own our own culture

1169
00:56:33.583 --> 00:56:35.709
as African Americans,
because it is our culture.

1170
00:56:35.792 --> 00:56:38.792
And we hate the way people--
other people tell our story.

1171
00:56:38.875 --> 00:56:40.959
There's always flaws in it
because they didn't live in it.

1172
00:56:41.041 --> 00:56:44.208
Most of the--
the primary institutions,

1173
00:56:44.291 --> 00:56:48.125
most of the cultural
institutions have been behind.

1174
00:56:48.208 --> 00:56:51.583
They've been behind in film.
They've been behind in TV.

1175
00:56:51.667 --> 00:56:54.083
They've been behind in
popular culture generally.

1176
00:56:54.166 --> 00:56:56.583
They've been behind in,
you know, in museums

1177
00:56:56.667 --> 00:56:58.375
and sort of cultural
institutions.

1178
00:56:58.458 --> 00:56:59.834
They're simply behind.

1179
00:56:59.917 --> 00:57:01.083
There are more exhibitions

1180
00:57:01.166 --> 00:57:03.583
featuring
African American artists,

1181
00:57:03.667 --> 00:57:04.542
Black artists,

1182
00:57:04.625 --> 00:57:06.709
whether they're
African American or not.

1183
00:57:06.792 --> 00:57:10.583
Um, there are more exhibitions
featuring women.

1184
00:57:10.667 --> 00:57:12.333
Those are exhibitions.

1185
00:57:12.417 --> 00:57:15.959
They don't always translate
into acquisitions.

1186
00:57:16.041 --> 00:57:18.083
I always,
when I go around to museums

1187
00:57:18.166 --> 00:57:19.875
and I see the work
of Black artists up,

1188
00:57:19.959 --> 00:57:23.041
I do this little game
where I look at the wall label

1189
00:57:23.125 --> 00:57:24.542
and look at
the acquisition dates.

1190
00:57:24.625 --> 00:57:27.959
And when I look at those dates,
I find in a lot of museums

1191
00:57:28.041 --> 00:57:29.458
that they're very recent.

1192
00:57:29.542 --> 00:57:32.917
So I think institutions
do have a long way to go

1193
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:34.250
in terms of catching up.

1194
00:57:34.333 --> 00:57:37.500
Now I guarantee you
they're selling off pieces

1195
00:57:37.583 --> 00:57:39.375
to get some color
in those museums

1196
00:57:39.458 --> 00:57:40.667
to balance that scale.

1197
00:57:40.750 --> 00:57:43.917
So it is only a matter of time
that greatness, uh,

1198
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:45.291
will shine through.

1199
00:57:45.375 --> 00:57:47.041
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1200
00:57:55.542 --> 00:57:57.000
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

1201
00:57:57.083 --> 00:57:58.542
MARY:
We love heroes.

1202
00:57:58.625 --> 00:58:01.125
We love celebrities.
We love "the one."

1203
00:58:01.208 --> 00:58:03.792
It is just part of our culture.

1204
00:58:03.875 --> 00:58:05.875
It's-- It's our culture
in music.

1205
00:58:05.959 --> 00:58:08.834
It's our culture in visual arts.

1206
00:58:08.917 --> 00:58:11.125
It's our political culture.

1207
00:58:11.208 --> 00:58:13.917
It-- You know-- We just--
We just like superheroes.

1208
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:18.083
RICHARD J. POWELL:
Jean Michel Basquiat emerges,
uh, in the art world

1209
00:58:18.166 --> 00:58:19.875
in the early 1980s.

1210
00:58:19.959 --> 00:58:23.083
This was a moment where
the art world was kind of--

1211
00:58:23.166 --> 00:58:24.208
they were kind of hungry

1212
00:58:24.291 --> 00:58:26.417
for something fresh,
something exciting,

1213
00:58:26.500 --> 00:58:29.500
something different,
something youthful.

1214
00:58:29.583 --> 00:58:33.166
He is also doing work
that really kind of grabs

1215
00:58:33.250 --> 00:58:35.917
at certain kind of notions
of the street,

1216
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:39.333
and of the urban decline
that we're all experiencing

1217
00:58:39.417 --> 00:58:41.166
towards the end
of the 20th century.

1218
00:58:41.250 --> 00:58:43.458
I think he changed
the conversation in a big way.

1219
00:58:43.542 --> 00:58:45.834
He just got
a lot of publicity, uh,

1220
00:58:45.917 --> 00:58:49.667
from being around
the right people at that time.

1221
00:58:49.750 --> 00:58:54.166
The meteoric rise of his career
was un-- unprecedented for--

1222
00:58:54.250 --> 00:58:55.834
In terms of Black visual artist.

1223
00:58:55.917 --> 00:58:57.041
And this is also the moment

1224
00:58:57.125 --> 00:58:58.667
when many of these
younger artists,

1225
00:58:58.750 --> 00:59:01.417
um, like Glenn Ligon,
and Lorna Simpson,

1226
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:03.125
and Kara Walker are
in art school.

1227
00:59:03.208 --> 00:59:06.000
And so by the time
we get to the early 1990s,

1228
00:59:06.083 --> 00:59:10.125
when they explode, I think
that Basquiat's legacy

1229
00:59:10.208 --> 00:59:13.709
and his-- and the message
he sends to the art world

1230
00:59:13.792 --> 00:59:16.875
is something that they are
the beneficiaries of.

1231
00:59:16.959 --> 00:59:20.458
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1232
00:59:23.834 --> 00:59:25.709
MARY:
I remember distinctly going

1233
00:59:25.792 --> 00:59:30.166
to the Whitney to see
a Kara Walker exhibition.

1234
00:59:30.250 --> 00:59:31.291
I was struck by several things.

1235
00:59:31.375 --> 00:59:33.458
One, she has such
an incredible mastery

1236
00:59:33.542 --> 00:59:36.125
of that medium
of the silhouettes.

1237
00:59:36.208 --> 00:59:40.917
And she has that, um,
attentiveness to her materials

1238
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.625
and-- and representation,
and the sense of space,

1239
00:59:43.709 --> 00:59:46.667
and design,
and dramatic scenario.

1240
00:59:47.834 --> 00:59:51.166
KARA WALKER:
The cut-outs I started doing

1241
00:59:51.250 --> 00:59:54.500
partly as an antidote
to painting.

1242
00:59:54.583 --> 00:59:58.250
Painting was too
readily recognized,

1243
00:59:58.333 --> 01:00:03.166
too quick from the hand,
too, um, gestural,

1244
01:00:03.250 --> 01:00:05.792
too personality-laden perhaps.

1245
01:00:05.875 --> 01:00:10.083
And I wanted to distance
myself from the idea

1246
01:00:10.166 --> 01:00:13.834
that this was me talking,
but that it was a-- a kind of,

1247
01:00:13.917 --> 01:00:18.166
uh, a masked character talking
about masked characters.

1248
01:00:19.834 --> 01:00:21.333
SARAH:
Kara Walker is a crucible

1249
01:00:21.417 --> 01:00:23.583
for the field
of African American art.

1250
01:00:23.667 --> 01:00:26.583
She's a crucible for the field
of modernism.

1251
01:00:26.667 --> 01:00:30.458
You know, I have
an enormous amount of respect
for her willingness

1252
01:00:30.542 --> 01:00:34.333
to go into that kind
of underbelly

1253
01:00:34.417 --> 01:00:38.625
of the neo-Confederate
narrative in American culture,

1254
01:00:38.709 --> 01:00:44.417
and bring it to our attention
through forms that disturb,

1255
01:00:44.500 --> 01:00:48.500
that command and that reshape
our understanding

1256
01:00:48.583 --> 01:00:49.875
about Black life

1257
01:00:49.959 --> 01:00:52.500
and-- and white Americans
in this country.

1258
01:00:52.583 --> 01:00:55.625
Love the work.
Hate the work.

1259
01:00:55.709 --> 01:00:58.291
You have to reckon
with the work.

1260
01:00:58.375 --> 01:00:59.959
If you don't,
you're not reckoning

1261
01:01:00.041 --> 01:01:03.125
with the history
of this country, effectively.

1262
01:01:03.208 --> 01:01:06.041
VALERIE: I think
what people push against...

1263
01:01:06.959 --> 01:01:08.792
is a sense of irreverence

1264
01:01:08.875 --> 01:01:13.166
about the moment
or time and space

1265
01:01:13.250 --> 01:01:15.166
where Africans were enslaved.

1266
01:01:15.250 --> 01:01:19.250
I think they push against what
they see is the perversity...

1267
01:01:20.375 --> 01:01:24.834
sexual perversity,
degradation of Black bodies

1268
01:01:24.917 --> 01:01:27.917
or complicitness
in that perversity

1269
01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:29.333
that she brings to bear.

1270
01:01:29.417 --> 01:01:32.917
So to pull on that history
and to play upon that history

1271
01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:34.458
is something that she does,

1272
01:01:34.542 --> 01:01:38.375
much to the chagrin
of the Black community.

1273
01:01:39.917 --> 01:01:42.208
KARA:
I'm not trying to, like,

1274
01:01:42.291 --> 01:01:44.625
drop a bomb
on the public necessarily,

1275
01:01:44.709 --> 01:01:47.500
but I-- sometimes I think
the work does have that impact.

1276
01:01:47.583 --> 01:01:51.250
My approach initially was, um...

1277
01:01:52.083 --> 01:01:53.792
decidedly tongue in cheek.

1278
01:01:53.875 --> 01:01:56.208
Your reality, my reality.

1279
01:01:56.291 --> 01:02:01.542
My fantasy, my fear,
my humanity, my clownishness,

1280
01:02:01.625 --> 01:02:04.750
all of that has to kind
of come to bear.

1281
01:02:04.834 --> 01:02:06.709
There's all these
narrative tropes,

1282
01:02:06.792 --> 01:02:10.417
stereotypes, mythologies
that we live with.

1283
01:02:10.500 --> 01:02:12.291
Some are very overt.

1284
01:02:12.375 --> 01:02:15.542
Some are parading around
in broad daylight.

1285
01:02:15.625 --> 01:02:18.250
Some are unconscious fantasies,

1286
01:02:18.333 --> 01:02:21.709
fears, wishes,
loathings, uh, anxieties.

1287
01:02:21.792 --> 01:02:24.250
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1288
01:02:26.834 --> 01:02:31.041
KARA: In 2013, I was approached
to do a public art project

1289
01:02:31.125 --> 01:02:32.834
in the Domino Sugar factory.

1290
01:02:32.917 --> 01:02:35.750
This old, derelict plant
on the waterfront.

1291
01:02:35.834 --> 01:02:37.250
It was a good collaboration,

1292
01:02:37.333 --> 01:02:39.667
and the best kind
of collaboration is the kind

1293
01:02:39.750 --> 01:02:41.041
where an organization says,

1294
01:02:41.125 --> 01:02:43.792
"We really wanna support
what artists do.

1295
01:02:43.875 --> 01:02:45.000
What do you wanna do?"

1296
01:02:45.083 --> 01:02:47.291
And you say, "I want
to build a 40-foot sphinx...

1297
01:02:48.333 --> 01:02:49.917
made out of sugar."

1298
01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:52.333
The scale was determined
by the space.

1299
01:02:52.417 --> 01:02:56.458
The sphinx became a--
a kind of monumental marker.

1300
01:02:58.667 --> 01:03:01.250
It was such a new way of working
and collaborating

1301
01:03:01.333 --> 01:03:04.709
and working with the team
and working three-dimensionally.

1302
01:03:05.917 --> 01:03:09.208
I'm always interested
in the challenge of working, uh,

1303
01:03:09.291 --> 01:03:10.583
in, sort of, public space

1304
01:03:10.667 --> 01:03:13.375
and the challenge being
new audiences for the work.

1305
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:18.542
I wanted to create
a compelling space to enter.

1306
01:03:21.375 --> 01:03:24.000
I got a longer historical lens
to view sugar production

1307
01:03:24.083 --> 01:03:26.583
that enslaved African people
who were commodified

1308
01:03:26.667 --> 01:03:31.375
and then segregated, excluded,
oppressed, destroyed.

1309
01:03:31.458 --> 01:03:34.083
It brings a lot of feeling
forward.

1310
01:03:34.166 --> 01:03:39.500
I think that my approach in
making art doesn't involve, um--

1311
01:03:39.583 --> 01:03:41.792
Or doesn't actually know
what the rules are

1312
01:03:41.875 --> 01:03:43.583
of what can and can't be said.

1313
01:03:43.667 --> 01:03:46.041
"She hasn't paid her dues."

1314
01:03:46.125 --> 01:03:47.625
"She doesn't know her history."

1315
01:03:47.709 --> 01:03:50.000
"She's selling us downriver."

1316
01:03:50.083 --> 01:03:52.959
Um, I mean, those are just
phrases I heard.

1317
01:03:53.041 --> 01:03:56.208
"She must hate Black people
as much as she hates herself."

1318
01:03:58.041 --> 01:04:00.125
The experience of white America

1319
01:04:00.208 --> 01:04:02.709
and Black America
is very different.

1320
01:04:02.792 --> 01:04:04.667
Because white America very often
will look at this

1321
01:04:04.750 --> 01:04:06.625
and find it incredibly
entertaining.

1322
01:04:06.709 --> 01:04:11.583
And Black America will look
at it and-- and almost, uh,

1323
01:04:11.667 --> 01:04:15.709
cringe at the pain
that's being depicted.

1324
01:04:15.792 --> 01:04:19.250
And-- And that's,
in and of itself, very telling.

1325
01:04:20.750 --> 01:04:23.834
I think there is something
about the Black community

1326
01:04:23.917 --> 01:04:25.625
that feels we have ownership

1327
01:04:25.709 --> 01:04:27.125
of these stories

1328
01:04:27.208 --> 01:04:28.750
because they come out of us.

1329
01:04:28.834 --> 01:04:32.333
They come through us.
They're about us.

1330
01:04:32.417 --> 01:04:35.625
But again, we're not
a monolith either.

1331
01:04:35.709 --> 01:04:40.208
And for, um, moments where
there were enslaved Africans,

1332
01:04:40.291 --> 01:04:41.792
there were also freed Africans.

1333
01:04:41.875 --> 01:04:46.250
We're a composite
of many different histories
coming together.

1334
01:04:46.333 --> 01:04:52.750
So, to say that
this is a monolithic reaction...

1335
01:04:52.834 --> 01:04:58.250
to artwork, I think, is,
at best, skewed.

1336
01:04:59.250 --> 01:05:01.917
And then to say that
that relationship

1337
01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:05.583
of how people react
should only be cast in white,

1338
01:05:05.667 --> 01:05:07.250
which is not a monolith,

1339
01:05:07.333 --> 01:05:10.166
and black,
which is not a monolith,

1340
01:05:10.250 --> 01:05:12.333
is also a bit skewed.

1341
01:05:12.417 --> 01:05:14.333
DAVID:
There are those who feel that

1342
01:05:14.417 --> 01:05:16.667
Kara represents certain aspects

1343
01:05:16.750 --> 01:05:21.750
of our history that is being
negatively portrayed in her art.

1344
01:05:21.834 --> 01:05:23.917
Be that as it may,

1345
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:26.583
you can't say to an artist,

1346
01:05:26.667 --> 01:05:30.291
"You have the freedom
to do whatever you want to,

1347
01:05:31.333 --> 01:05:35.250
however, you can't do
such-and-such a thing.

1348
01:05:35.333 --> 01:05:39.125
I won't let you do this.
I won't let you do that."

1349
01:05:39.208 --> 01:05:42.417
Either you have the freedom
to do it or you don't.

1350
01:05:42.500 --> 01:05:44.959
She put herself out there,
or her work was put out there,

1351
01:05:45.041 --> 01:05:46.625
when she was very young.

1352
01:05:46.709 --> 01:05:48.917
It was very hard to digest.

1353
01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:50.625
Everybody attacked her,

1354
01:05:50.709 --> 01:05:53.125
and then some people
totally embraced her.

1355
01:05:53.208 --> 01:05:54.959
It must have been
very confusing.

1356
01:05:55.041 --> 01:05:58.000
But she stayed with her program,
and she's still on her program,

1357
01:05:58.083 --> 01:06:00.083
and, to me,
that's a huge inspiration.

1358
01:06:00.166 --> 01:06:03.917
It's not always about being
appreciated and liked.

1359
01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:07.792
Sometimes it's being about,
you know, about being reviled

1360
01:06:07.875 --> 01:06:11.625
and, um, criticized.

1361
01:06:11.709 --> 01:06:15.000
But it's that activity that
makes the art important.

1362
01:06:15.083 --> 01:06:20.750
And I think she's shown
extreme courage and, um...

1363
01:06:20.834 --> 01:06:24.542
strength in doing her work.
So, to me, that's inspirational.

1364
01:06:25.250 --> 01:06:28.208
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1365
01:06:31.583 --> 01:06:33.125
CARRIE MAE WEEMS:
When I came to New York

1366
01:06:33.208 --> 01:06:34.834
in the 60s, I was very young.

1367
01:06:34.917 --> 01:06:39.041
I was moving between
San Francisco and New York.

1368
01:06:39.125 --> 01:06:42.500
And I discovered
the Studio Museum fairly early.

1369
01:06:42.583 --> 01:06:44.875
Everything happened there.
It was like-- It was a--

1370
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.542
It was a focal point for anybody
that was interested in culture.

1371
01:06:49.625 --> 01:06:52.959
And so I became, sort of,
instantly a part

1372
01:06:53.041 --> 01:06:54.291
of that group
and wanted to be

1373
01:06:54.375 --> 01:06:57.834
a part of that--
that group of-- of intellectuals

1374
01:06:57.917 --> 01:06:59.834
and artists asking questions

1375
01:06:59.917 --> 01:07:02.500
about the moment
in which we lived.

1376
01:07:02.583 --> 01:07:05.208
Shortly after leaving Yale,
I was accepted to become

1377
01:07:05.291 --> 01:07:07.417
the artist in residence
at the Studio Museum in Harlem,

1378
01:07:07.500 --> 01:07:09.709
which came as a great shock
to me.

1379
01:07:09.792 --> 01:07:12.667
Uh, principally because it's one
of the most desired

1380
01:07:12.750 --> 01:07:14.667
artist in residencies
in the world.

1381
01:07:14.750 --> 01:07:16.583
There's a stamp of approval
that comes

1382
01:07:16.667 --> 01:07:19.291
from having the artist
in residency

1383
01:07:19.375 --> 01:07:20.542
at the Studio Museum.

1384
01:07:20.625 --> 01:07:24.000
For Black art to thrive,
it's always required spaces,

1385
01:07:24.083 --> 01:07:26.208
fellowship, community.

1386
01:07:26.291 --> 01:07:27.709
The Studio Museum
has provided that

1387
01:07:27.792 --> 01:07:30.208
when really no other
institution did.

1388
01:07:30.291 --> 01:07:31.875
JORDAN:
Knowing all the people

1389
01:07:31.959 --> 01:07:33.625
who had come through
the Studio Museum

1390
01:07:33.709 --> 01:07:35.041
in Harlem program,

1391
01:07:35.125 --> 01:07:36.875
being a part of that space,

1392
01:07:36.959 --> 01:07:40.875
that is clearly-- There's magic
that must exist there.

1393
01:07:40.959 --> 01:07:42.625
Uh, knowing what that magic was,

1394
01:07:42.709 --> 01:07:44.583
was something I wanted
to be a part of.

1395
01:07:44.667 --> 01:07:47.750
I knew that
that was a moment of real,

1396
01:07:47.834 --> 01:07:50.250
potential change in my life.

1397
01:07:52.125 --> 01:07:54.083
♪ (QUIET MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1398
01:07:57.625 --> 01:08:01.125
JORDAN: This is a painting that
I am working on currently.

1399
01:08:02.333 --> 01:08:05.000
I spend time looking at
the image and really trying

1400
01:08:05.083 --> 01:08:09.333
to parse out from it
an emotion or sense of feeling

1401
01:08:09.417 --> 01:08:13.333
that I think is going to be the
aura of the painting as a whole.

1402
01:08:16.834 --> 01:08:20.375
I'm pulling colors that
I think are most vibrant

1403
01:08:20.458 --> 01:08:22.000
or most important
that I want to make sure

1404
01:08:22.083 --> 01:08:24.500
that I include in the painting.

1405
01:08:24.583 --> 01:08:27.500
As it comes to life,
I get really excited.

1406
01:08:28.667 --> 01:08:31.875
I always start with their faces
and their eyes.

1407
01:08:31.959 --> 01:08:35.917
Um, it's an opportunity
to really connect with them.

1408
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:38.083
And then I can make
everything else happen

1409
01:08:38.166 --> 01:08:39.458
once I've done that.

1410
01:08:41.083 --> 01:08:42.959
BERNARD: I mean,
what can I say about Jordan?

1411
01:08:43.041 --> 01:08:44.000
She's amazing.

1412
01:08:44.083 --> 01:08:46.041
You know,
she is working in the tradition

1413
01:08:46.125 --> 01:08:48.041
of African American portraiture.

1414
01:08:48.125 --> 01:08:50.125
You know,
in a realist tradition.

1415
01:08:50.208 --> 01:08:52.834
But she's bringing to it
her own unique perspective

1416
01:08:52.917 --> 01:08:55.959
as a woman and, I think,
as a young person also,

1417
01:08:56.041 --> 01:08:59.125
depicting young people today
in their everyday realities

1418
01:08:59.208 --> 01:09:01.000
in-- in their everyday lives.

1419
01:09:04.250 --> 01:09:05.667
JORDAN:
I made the decision

1420
01:09:05.750 --> 01:09:08.875
to explicitly represent
Black men and boys,

1421
01:09:08.959 --> 01:09:11.625
in an effort to push
against the narratives

1422
01:09:11.709 --> 01:09:13.792
that I felt were
kind of dominating

1423
01:09:13.875 --> 01:09:15.250
the public sphere at that time.

1424
01:09:15.333 --> 01:09:20.250
And my, um, initial decision
in representing them nude

1425
01:09:20.333 --> 01:09:23.917
was featuring Black men, um,
centered in their homes,

1426
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:26.250
trying to capture them
in their most vulnerable

1427
01:09:26.333 --> 01:09:27.667
and intimate spaces.

1428
01:09:27.750 --> 01:09:29.125
♪ (FUNKY MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1429
01:09:29.208 --> 01:09:31.208
JORDAN:
I wanted to treat the Black body

1430
01:09:31.291 --> 01:09:36.000
with, um, as much care
and attention as possible.

1431
01:09:36.083 --> 01:09:37.417
When I started to decide

1432
01:09:37.500 --> 01:09:39.333
that I wanted
to make these paintings,

1433
01:09:39.417 --> 01:09:40.709
the scale was really important.

1434
01:09:40.792 --> 01:09:43.500
I wanted them to feel like they
could step out of the canvas

1435
01:09:43.583 --> 01:09:46.625
and be participants
in our day-to-day lives.

1436
01:09:47.417 --> 01:09:48.875
♪ (FUNKY MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪

1437
01:09:50.083 --> 01:09:52.125
JORDAN: I also wanted them
to feel like they're pushing

1438
01:09:52.208 --> 01:09:55.458
against the confines
of the canvas itself.

1439
01:09:59.041 --> 01:10:02.000
When I was a resident at
the Studio Museum in Harlem,

1440
01:10:02.083 --> 01:10:04.959
I had the opportunity to have
a studio visit with Thelma.

1441
01:10:05.041 --> 01:10:09.458
And she came into my studio
and she, uh, made a comment

1442
01:10:09.542 --> 01:10:12.709
that my work reminded her
of landscape painting.

1443
01:10:12.792 --> 01:10:15.875
And I remember thinking that
that felt very far fetched

1444
01:10:15.959 --> 01:10:17.667
and-- and distant
from what it was

1445
01:10:17.750 --> 01:10:19.959
that I was identifying
around this work.

1446
01:10:20.041 --> 01:10:21.542
It was like,
"I'm a portrait painter,"

1447
01:10:21.625 --> 01:10:25.166
was probably how I was, um,
recognizing myself.

1448
01:10:27.125 --> 01:10:29.041
And the fact that
she said landscape

1449
01:10:29.125 --> 01:10:31.875
really resonated over time,

1450
01:10:31.959 --> 01:10:34.208
specifically thinking about
the landscape

1451
01:10:34.291 --> 01:10:37.542
in the full breadth of
the environment that we occupy,

1452
01:10:37.625 --> 01:10:39.750
and the spaces
that we move throughout.

1453
01:10:42.917 --> 01:10:45.000
I look at my body of work
and I see

1454
01:10:45.083 --> 01:10:47.291
a scrapbook of my life,

1455
01:10:47.375 --> 01:10:49.709
that there are various
moments in time

1456
01:10:49.792 --> 01:10:51.959
where I've been somewhere
and met someone

1457
01:10:52.041 --> 01:10:55.834
and then they've been invited
to participate in my practice.

1458
01:10:56.959 --> 01:11:00.917
Being at the Studio Museum
in Harlem brought me home.

1459
01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:03.458
All the resources
within that institution

1460
01:11:03.542 --> 01:11:05.959
would be at my fingertips,

1461
01:11:06.041 --> 01:11:09.583
and the prospect of that
I knew was immense.

1462
01:11:09.667 --> 01:11:11.041
There's an oasis for me there,

1463
01:11:11.125 --> 01:11:12.750
and a place
to always go back to.

1464
01:11:12.834 --> 01:11:15.083
There is a real community
of people who care about me,

1465
01:11:15.166 --> 01:11:18.125
still, and are invested in me.

1466
01:11:18.208 --> 01:11:20.875
And that investment
can take you, you know,

1467
01:11:20.959 --> 01:11:22.834
beyond anything
you ever imagine,

1468
01:11:22.917 --> 01:11:26.166
when other people believe in you
from the beginning.

1469
01:11:26.250 --> 01:11:29.125
SARAH:
The Studio Museum has created

1470
01:11:29.208 --> 01:11:31.500
this extraordinary program,
called

1471
01:11:31.583 --> 01:11:33.041
the Artist in Residency Program.

1472
01:11:33.125 --> 01:11:36.667
It gives artists studio space,
time, a community

1473
01:11:36.750 --> 01:11:39.083
an exhibition of their work
at the end.

1474
01:11:39.166 --> 01:11:40.792
Mentorship along the way.

1475
01:11:40.875 --> 01:11:42.917
From that, we have some of our--

1476
01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:45.875
What you might call
"art stars" today.

1477
01:11:45.959 --> 01:11:47.250
KERRY:
I was an artist in residence

1478
01:11:47.333 --> 01:11:49.125
at Studio Museum in 1985.

1479
01:11:49.208 --> 01:11:51.709
You can understand
from experience,

1480
01:11:51.792 --> 01:11:53.959
the value of places like that

1481
01:11:54.041 --> 01:11:58.709
for creating what people
understand to be community.

1482
01:11:59.542 --> 01:12:01.417
So it's the place
where you can go

1483
01:12:01.500 --> 01:12:04.250
and if you wanna meet people
who are in the art world,

1484
01:12:04.333 --> 01:12:06.542
you can only meet them
at The Studio Museum.

1485
01:12:06.625 --> 01:12:07.959
That matters.

1486
01:12:08.041 --> 01:12:10.125
I mean, it matters that there's
a place you can go and do that.

1487
01:12:10.208 --> 01:12:11.583
And it mattered,
that there was a place

1488
01:12:11.667 --> 01:12:14.250
that was run by Black folks,
that was owned by Black folks

1489
01:12:14.333 --> 01:12:16.041
in which a whole lot of people

1490
01:12:16.125 --> 01:12:18.000
who came through there
were all Black folks.

1491
01:12:18.083 --> 01:12:20.500
That all still--
That mattered too... (CHUCKLES)

1492
01:12:20.583 --> 01:12:22.000
you know, it mattered.

1493
01:12:22.083 --> 01:12:24.834
The Studio Museum had always
been a beacon.

1494
01:12:24.917 --> 01:12:28.208
It was one of the places that
appreciated and showcased

1495
01:12:28.291 --> 01:12:31.041
our work at a very,
very early point

1496
01:12:31.125 --> 01:12:32.875
in the conversation.

1497
01:12:32.959 --> 01:12:36.542
And I was very honored
to be invited to New York City

1498
01:12:36.625 --> 01:12:39.041
as a Studio Museum
in Harlem resident.

1499
01:12:39.125 --> 01:12:41.166
That's how I moved
to New York City.

1500
01:12:41.250 --> 01:12:44.542
The people who funded the arts
and who supported the arts,

1501
01:12:44.625 --> 01:12:47.875
some of them thought that what
we were doing was laughable.

1502
01:12:47.959 --> 01:12:50.583
Why do you need
a Black fine-arts museum?

1503
01:12:50.667 --> 01:12:53.542
You have MoMA, you have Met,
you have the Guggenheim.

1504
01:12:53.625 --> 01:12:57.875
You know, why do--
why do you even need a museum?

1505
01:12:57.959 --> 01:13:00.375
So the fact that people
were asking that question

1506
01:13:00.458 --> 01:13:04.709
was a clear evidence that
we really did need that museum.

1507
01:13:04.792 --> 01:13:07.041
I am still at the Studio Museum.
(LAUGHS)

1508
01:13:07.125 --> 01:13:11.125
I mean,
assuming the Studio Museum is...

1509
01:13:11.959 --> 01:13:14.375
is still the focal point

1510
01:13:14.458 --> 01:13:17.291
of, uh, African American
culture production

1511
01:13:17.375 --> 01:13:19.875
and artistic production
in the country

1512
01:13:19.959 --> 01:13:22.667
if not... on the planet.

1513
01:13:22.750 --> 01:13:25.041
It is one of the most
important institutions

1514
01:13:25.125 --> 01:13:26.208
that we-- that we have.

1515
01:13:26.291 --> 01:13:29.917
And what Thelma, uh,
is doing there, um--

1516
01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:31.667
What she's done there.

1517
01:13:31.750 --> 01:13:34.333
Uh, the way she's led
the organization

1518
01:13:34.417 --> 01:13:37.709
into the 21st century is
absolutely extraordinary

1519
01:13:37.792 --> 01:13:39.625
and, uh, and really important.

1520
01:13:39.709 --> 01:13:41.458
♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1521
01:13:46.291 --> 01:13:48.041
DAVID: I don't see
The Studio Museum

1522
01:13:48.125 --> 01:13:52.083
as the only place for funneling

1523
01:13:52.166 --> 01:13:54.750
Black talent
into the mainstream,

1524
01:13:54.834 --> 01:13:56.750
if there is such a thing
as the mainstream.

1525
01:13:56.834 --> 01:14:00.375
I think it's one
of the major places.

1526
01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:04.125
I think Black colleges
and universities

1527
01:14:04.208 --> 01:14:07.250
still play an important role

1528
01:14:07.333 --> 01:14:11.083
in that kind of definition of
who one becomes as an artist.

1529
01:14:11.166 --> 01:14:14.083
Without the work of historically
Black colleges and universities,

1530
01:14:14.166 --> 01:14:17.083
we wouldn't have a repository
of African American art

1531
01:14:17.166 --> 01:14:18.291
that we could draw from.

1532
01:14:19.166 --> 01:14:21.834
DAVID:
The HBCUs have not been given

1533
01:14:21.917 --> 01:14:23.667
the credit that they are due.

1534
01:14:23.750 --> 01:14:29.291
When nobody else was out there
championing in these artists,

1535
01:14:29.375 --> 01:14:34.250
HBCUs were there claiming them,

1536
01:14:34.333 --> 01:14:38.125
showcasing them,
putting them up on the wall,

1537
01:14:38.208 --> 01:14:39.834
teaching about them.

1538
01:14:39.917 --> 01:14:41.875
RUJEKO HOCKLEY:
When we think of Clark Atlanta,

1539
01:14:41.959 --> 01:14:43.083
when we think of Spelman,

1540
01:14:43.166 --> 01:14:44.959
when we think
of Fisk University,

1541
01:14:45.041 --> 01:14:46.291
when we think of Howard,

1542
01:14:46.375 --> 01:14:49.000
these are all spaces in which
Black artists and Black art

1543
01:14:49.083 --> 01:14:51.208
has flourished for, you know,
hundreds of years.

1544
01:14:51.291 --> 01:14:54.709
They were the patrons
of African American artists.

1545
01:14:54.792 --> 01:14:56.333
So that's why these institutions

1546
01:14:56.417 --> 01:14:58.500
now have some
of the most important works

1547
01:14:58.583 --> 01:15:02.166
by those, uh, kind of
important historical figures.

1548
01:15:02.250 --> 01:15:04.291
I think one of the most exciting
things about

1549
01:15:04.375 --> 01:15:06.917
the progression of contemporary
African American art

1550
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.667
and the artists that are working
today inheriting that tradition

1551
01:15:09.750 --> 01:15:11.959
is that they said,
"Hey, you know what?

1552
01:15:12.041 --> 01:15:13.583
My artistic forebearers,

1553
01:15:13.667 --> 01:15:15.834
as it were,
have paved the way for me

1554
01:15:15.917 --> 01:15:18.792
to make work of a whole
different range of topics

1555
01:15:18.875 --> 01:15:20.625
in a whole different
kind of way."

1556
01:15:21.333 --> 01:15:26.625
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1557
01:15:26.709 --> 01:15:28.750
THEASTER GATES:
Being a clay guy

1558
01:15:28.834 --> 01:15:34.667
isn't about a tea bowl
or a tea pot.

1559
01:15:34.750 --> 01:15:37.000
It's about having a sense

1560
01:15:37.083 --> 01:15:39.750
that a thing
that is under-fashioned...

1561
01:15:41.208 --> 01:15:45.208
lesser understood, unbuilt...

1562
01:15:46.250 --> 01:15:51.625
dirt, that with skill
and a knowledge of form...

1563
01:15:52.375 --> 01:15:55.208
one could then take this stuff

1564
01:15:55.291 --> 01:15:57.125
and turn it into
something useful.

1565
01:15:57.208 --> 01:16:00.542
And that the only limitation
between dirt

1566
01:16:00.625 --> 01:16:04.875
becoming a useful form,
or just dirt, is ability.

1567
01:16:04.959 --> 01:16:09.959
And so, this idea that we could
be, uh, active participants

1568
01:16:10.041 --> 01:16:12.458
in the reshaping of nothingness

1569
01:16:12.542 --> 01:16:13.917
is super important to me.

1570
01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:17.959
And that the actors,
the makers of the 60s and 70s,

1571
01:16:18.041 --> 01:16:21.041
were all too aware of the truth

1572
01:16:21.125 --> 01:16:23.208
of the complexity
of nothingness.

1573
01:16:23.291 --> 01:16:24.542
♪ (MUSIC STOPS) ♪

1574
01:16:24.625 --> 01:16:27.667
When I was an undergrad
studying ceramics,

1575
01:16:28.458 --> 01:16:30.583
I was studying all the greats.

1576
01:16:30.667 --> 01:16:33.750
There were, like,
all these amazing makers.

1577
01:16:33.834 --> 01:16:35.291
None of them looked like me.

1578
01:16:35.375 --> 01:16:37.417
I, like, read and read

1579
01:16:37.500 --> 01:16:40.500
and found the story
of Dave Drake.

1580
01:16:40.583 --> 01:16:44.542
And I just thought,
"Finally, uh,

1581
01:16:44.625 --> 01:16:47.875
an individual in the history
of American making

1582
01:16:47.959 --> 01:16:49.834
that I can root myself in."

1583
01:16:49.917 --> 01:16:54.834
And so I-- I remember
trying to embody Dave.

1584
01:16:54.917 --> 01:16:57.583
SARAH: Dave Drake was one
of the most proficient potters

1585
01:16:57.667 --> 01:17:00.917
in the United States at the time
in which he was making his work.

1586
01:17:01.000 --> 01:17:03.709
And he was subversive
with his practice.

1587
01:17:03.792 --> 01:17:07.583
He would inscribe, at a time
when it was, you know, illegal

1588
01:17:07.667 --> 01:17:08.917
for a slave to know how to read,

1589
01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:12.792
he would inscribe messages
on these pots

1590
01:17:12.875 --> 01:17:15.041
to declare his own mastery.

1591
01:17:18.709 --> 01:17:21.959
And he was a master.
An artistic master.

1592
01:17:22.041 --> 01:17:25.250
David Drake was in  Two Centuries
of Black American Art.

1593
01:17:25.333 --> 01:17:27.750
And what it also reminds us
is that

1594
01:17:27.834 --> 01:17:30.166
the arts were a way
to exert power,

1595
01:17:30.250 --> 01:17:32.959
even in a moment of slavery,
you know?

1596
01:17:33.041 --> 01:17:36.041
This is an artist
who even defied
what the term master meant.

1597
01:17:36.125 --> 01:17:38.125
He was a master at his craft.

1598
01:17:38.208 --> 01:17:41.417
Introducing Dave's story would
mean there was a--

1599
01:17:41.500 --> 01:17:45.125
there was a name that people
didn't know from the past.

1600
01:17:45.208 --> 01:17:47.208
And that by bringing him up,
maybe it wouldn't mean

1601
01:17:47.291 --> 01:17:48.375
anything to anyone,

1602
01:17:48.458 --> 01:17:50.834
but I at least had
a Black potter

1603
01:17:50.917 --> 01:17:52.417
that I could identify with.

1604
01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:56.667
It was the beginning of a kind
of hopefulness within Blackness

1605
01:17:56.750 --> 01:17:59.083
that I could be myself
in this craft

1606
01:17:59.166 --> 01:18:02.333
and know that there were some
part of it that had a legacy.

1607
01:18:02.417 --> 01:18:07.166
When I was only making pots,
when I was just working in clay,

1608
01:18:07.250 --> 01:18:09.333
I reached a point
in the material

1609
01:18:09.417 --> 01:18:11.667
where they were other things
I wanted to say

1610
01:18:11.750 --> 01:18:14.583
and-- and they couldn't be done
through the material.

1611
01:18:15.959 --> 01:18:20.500
So I graduated, if you will,
into using whatever.

1612
01:18:20.583 --> 01:18:24.583
So I went from being a potter
to being a conceptualist.

1613
01:18:25.959 --> 01:18:29.417
It didn't matter what
the material was, I was open.

1614
01:18:29.500 --> 01:18:33.208
But I needed the right material
to tell the right story.

1615
01:18:33.291 --> 01:18:36.375
Here is one of the earliest
civil rights tapestries.

1616
01:18:36.458 --> 01:18:39.875
It's basically, uh,
um, fire hoses

1617
01:18:39.959 --> 01:18:41.959
that had been discontinued,

1618
01:18:42.041 --> 01:18:45.709
um, sewn together and framed.

1619
01:18:45.792 --> 01:18:48.417
And this body of work grew
out of me

1620
01:18:48.500 --> 01:18:50.041
starting to have
a conversation about

1621
01:18:50.125 --> 01:18:54.291
the history of protests
and the use of the fire hose

1622
01:18:54.375 --> 01:18:57.000
in places like Selma
and Birmingham.

1623
01:18:57.083 --> 01:19:01.000
Then there were moments
where the material form--

1624
01:19:01.083 --> 01:19:05.792
the material world couldn't
say certain things for me.

1625
01:19:05.875 --> 01:19:10.375
Then I was back to
the first route,

1626
01:19:10.458 --> 01:19:14.166
which was the immaterial form,

1627
01:19:14.250 --> 01:19:15.917
the spiritual form.

1628
01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:18.667
And that's when voice
became super important.

1629
01:19:18.750 --> 01:19:23.375
-Speech acts, choirs, music.
-♪ (SINGERS VOCALIZING) ♪

1630
01:19:23.458 --> 01:19:29.542
(SINGING) ♪ Oh, I wanna
Cross the ocean of illusion ♪

1631
01:19:30.917 --> 01:19:34.083
♪ (SINGERS VOCALIZING) ♪

1632
01:19:34.166 --> 01:19:36.834
THEASTER:
Sound had its own material form.

1633
01:19:36.917 --> 01:19:39.041
Its own ability
to transform space.

1634
01:19:39.125 --> 01:19:41.750
Its own ability to resurrect
the soul

1635
01:19:41.834 --> 01:19:44.375
and that-- that there
was something that I didn't want

1636
01:19:44.458 --> 01:19:49.333
to leave behind in the story
of my people...

1637
01:19:51.458 --> 01:19:53.375
that I felt music could do

1638
01:19:53.458 --> 01:19:56.667
in a way that some of
these objects couldn't.

1639
01:19:56.750 --> 01:19:58.417
He sings.

1640
01:19:58.500 --> 01:20:01.166
And to a certain extent,
he preaches.

1641
01:20:01.250 --> 01:20:03.500
He had that whole vernacular

1642
01:20:03.583 --> 01:20:08.709
of understanding the definition
of what Black culture is about.

1643
01:20:08.792 --> 01:20:11.458
Here's an artist
who studied ceramics,

1644
01:20:11.542 --> 01:20:14.250
but also studied urban planning.

1645
01:20:14.333 --> 01:20:19.417
So utilizing his artwork
to really expand...

1646
01:20:19.500 --> 01:20:22.917
expand modes
of how one produces,

1647
01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:27.834
how art could spearhead
economic vitalization.

1648
01:20:27.917 --> 01:20:30.291
Theaster Gates is--
is one of the beacons

1649
01:20:30.375 --> 01:20:31.792
of this kind of change.

1650
01:20:31.875 --> 01:20:36.208
He has done this through
The Rebuild Foundation,

1651
01:20:36.291 --> 01:20:37.333
with his actual spaces.

1652
01:20:37.417 --> 01:20:38.834
He has done this through
the creation

1653
01:20:38.917 --> 01:20:41.083
of the Black Artist Retreat.

1654
01:20:41.166 --> 01:20:43.083
He's done it through
his own practice,

1655
01:20:43.166 --> 01:20:44.333
his own art making practice,

1656
01:20:44.417 --> 01:20:45.875
and he has done it through
the fellowship

1657
01:20:45.959 --> 01:20:47.792
that he offers and provides
to other artists.

1658
01:20:47.875 --> 01:20:51.542
Going to a Black artist, uh,
retreat in Chicago

1659
01:20:51.625 --> 01:20:54.542
was the first time
I was ever able to meet

1660
01:20:54.625 --> 01:20:56.375
my contemporaries.

1661
01:20:56.458 --> 01:20:58.792
Um, because I didn't
live in New York,

1662
01:20:58.875 --> 01:21:01.166
so I wasn't going to openings.

1663
01:21:01.250 --> 01:21:04.667
And it was
a magnificent experience.

1664
01:21:04.750 --> 01:21:06.667
It was, um...

1665
01:21:06.750 --> 01:21:09.500
I mean, I think we all left
there changed and invigorated,

1666
01:21:09.583 --> 01:21:11.166
and we all support each other.

1667
01:21:11.250 --> 01:21:15.917
You can get people involved
in art on many, many levels,

1668
01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:20.125
knowing that art plays
a significant role

1669
01:21:20.208 --> 01:21:24.083
in the wholeness of life,
not just one aspect of it.

1670
01:21:24.166 --> 01:21:26.458
You don't have to go to
the museum to see it.

1671
01:21:26.542 --> 01:21:29.417
You can be part of it
in your own community.

1672
01:21:29.500 --> 01:21:32.500
He has really revolutionized
the whole concept of art

1673
01:21:32.583 --> 01:21:34.625
more than any other artist
I know.

1674
01:21:34.709 --> 01:21:36.458
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

1675
01:21:47.417 --> 01:21:48.917
Are you a artist?

1676
01:21:49.000 --> 01:21:51.834
Yes, I'm the artist
who made these pictures.

1677
01:21:55.208 --> 01:21:57.917
You can see, of course,
that I was greatly influenced

1678
01:21:58.000 --> 01:22:00.250
by Romare Bearden.

1679
01:22:00.333 --> 01:22:02.125
Enamored by his work.

1680
01:22:02.208 --> 01:22:04.625
-I wanted to integrate
the painting...
-VIEWER: Mm-hmm.

1681
01:22:04.709 --> 01:22:08.083
...and make
the painting primary.

1682
01:22:08.166 --> 01:22:10.166
♪ (PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1683
01:22:13.875 --> 01:22:16.250
DAVID: I devoted my life
to teaching,

1684
01:22:16.333 --> 01:22:19.208
through collecting,
through curating.

1685
01:22:19.291 --> 01:22:21.792
But I saw the need
to participate

1686
01:22:21.875 --> 01:22:24.041
in the cultural awareness,

1687
01:22:24.125 --> 01:22:28.166
helping to revise
and redefine American art.

1688
01:22:28.250 --> 01:22:30.917
In my opinion, David Driskell's
presence in the art world

1689
01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:35.083
is-- is the significance of him
sending the elevator back down.

1690
01:22:35.166 --> 01:22:38.834
He was a trailblazer for--
for all of us.

1691
01:22:38.917 --> 01:22:40.875
And when there were
no Black voices

1692
01:22:40.959 --> 01:22:42.083
in the art world,

1693
01:22:42.166 --> 01:22:45.125
um, for him to assert himself
in the way that he did,

1694
01:22:45.208 --> 01:22:47.709
helped move us forward, um,
during a time when we were

1695
01:22:47.792 --> 01:22:51.458
still fighting for space
in museums and, um,

1696
01:22:51.542 --> 01:22:52.959
and in galleries.

1697
01:22:53.041 --> 01:22:54.959
You know, traditionally,
there was a moment

1698
01:22:55.041 --> 01:22:58.250
when, you know, there were not
many images or representations

1699
01:22:58.333 --> 01:23:01.458
of African Americans in
paintings, in the visual arts,

1700
01:23:01.542 --> 01:23:03.500
in our collective
visual culture.

1701
01:23:03.583 --> 01:23:06.458
And now, thanks to
Two Centuries of Black Art,

1702
01:23:06.542 --> 01:23:08.917
the world was given
these amazing portrayals

1703
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:10.709
and images about Black culture.

1704
01:23:10.792 --> 01:23:14.959
And they became seared
in the collective imagination.

1705
01:23:15.041 --> 01:23:20.208
And I think we-- we're part
of a continued renaissance.

1706
01:23:20.291 --> 01:23:21.500
It's been happening.

1707
01:23:21.583 --> 01:23:24.333
What I'm most excited about
is...

1708
01:23:24.417 --> 01:23:27.667
do we have the capacity
to be great makers

1709
01:23:27.750 --> 01:23:30.041
in the absence of light?

1710
01:23:30.125 --> 01:23:32.291
And if Blackness
has something to do

1711
01:23:32.375 --> 01:23:34.417
with the absence of light...

1712
01:23:34.500 --> 01:23:37.875
does Black art mean
that sometimes I'm making

1713
01:23:37.959 --> 01:23:39.834
when no one is looking?

1714
01:23:39.917 --> 01:23:41.333
And for the most part,

1715
01:23:41.417 --> 01:23:43.792
that has been the truth
of our lives.

1716
01:23:43.875 --> 01:23:45.417
Is there a light? Yes.

1717
01:23:45.500 --> 01:23:50.125
But until we own the light,
I'm not happy.

1718
01:23:50.208 --> 01:23:52.083
Until we're in our own houses

1719
01:23:52.166 --> 01:23:55.125
of exhibition, of discovery,
of research.

1720
01:23:55.208 --> 01:23:59.792
Until we've figured out a way
to be masters of the world,

1721
01:23:59.875 --> 01:24:02.500
then I'd rather work
in darkness.

1722
01:24:02.583 --> 01:24:05.458
I'd rather work in darkness,
because at least I know

1723
01:24:05.542 --> 01:24:07.166
that I'm working.

1724
01:24:07.250 --> 01:24:09.709
That I'm-- That--
I don't want to work

1725
01:24:09.792 --> 01:24:11.417
only when the light comes on.

1726
01:24:12.166 --> 01:24:14.083
And my-- my fear,

1727
01:24:14.166 --> 01:24:16.083
is that we're being trained
and conditioned

1728
01:24:16.166 --> 01:24:18.834
to only make
if there is a light.

1729
01:24:18.917 --> 01:24:20.875
And that makes us
co-dependent upon a thing

1730
01:24:20.959 --> 01:24:22.166
that we don't control.

1731
01:24:22.250 --> 01:24:25.125
Are you willing to make
in the absence of light?

1732
01:24:26.208 --> 01:24:29.250
There has been an awakening,
an awareness.

1733
01:24:29.333 --> 01:24:30.375
But that's enlightenment

1734
01:24:30.458 --> 01:24:33.750
through education,
through desire...

1735
01:24:34.625 --> 01:24:38.542
to want, to know,
to improve.

1736
01:24:38.625 --> 01:24:40.709
And I think
a lot of that's going on.

1737
01:24:40.792 --> 01:24:45.875
On the other hand, in the words
of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.,

1738
01:24:45.959 --> 01:24:48.125
"We haven't reached
the promised land.

1739
01:24:48.792 --> 01:24:50.667
We've got a long way to go."

1740
01:24:51.333 --> 01:24:54.500
♪ (JAZZ MUSIC FADES) ♪

1741
01:24:56.583 --> 01:24:59.709
♪ (RHYTHMIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

1742
01:25:42.875 --> 01:25:45.041
♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪