WEBVTT FILE 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:01:13.573 --> 00:01:17.118 (Ominous music) 4 00:01:28.380 --> 00:01:31.299 [Director] This is a film about storytelling. 5 00:01:31.841 --> 00:01:35.220 About how we tell the story of our country's past. 6 00:01:36.304 --> 00:01:40.100 Why do we want to believe one version and not another? 7 00:01:40.141 --> 00:01:42.894 Maybe because it makes us feel safe at night. 8 00:01:44.854 --> 00:01:46.189 There's one episode 9 00:01:46.231 --> 00:01:49.109 of America's history that is told very differently, 10 00:01:49.150 --> 00:01:52.320 depending on who you are and where you live. 11 00:01:52.362 --> 00:01:56.741 It is the story of our civil war and what came after. 12 00:01:59.828 --> 00:02:01.454 (explosion) 13 00:02:02.664 --> 00:02:04.457 (drums) 14 00:02:08.211 --> 00:02:10.255 - The hot winds of war blew across 15 00:02:10.296 --> 00:02:14.426 the land, made of it a country divided. 16 00:02:15.677 --> 00:02:19.806 Friend turned into foe, brother fought against brother. 17 00:02:21.725 --> 00:02:23.476 It was such a long and drawn out 18 00:02:23.518 --> 00:02:27.731 struggle and a feeling on both sides was so intense. 19 00:02:37.198 --> 00:02:39.409 - We're all just romantics lost 20 00:02:39.451 --> 00:02:42.162 in contemporary times, you might say every one of us 21 00:02:42.203 --> 00:02:45.874 feels like we born 125 years too late. 22 00:02:48.877 --> 00:02:51.588 (slow music) 23 00:02:55.383 --> 00:02:58.845 - To introduce myself, my name is Rachel Boynton. 24 00:02:58.887 --> 00:03:00.764 This is Nelson Walker. 25 00:03:00.805 --> 00:03:03.933 We are independent documentary filmmakers. 26 00:03:03.975 --> 00:03:07.687 We're making a film about how we tell the story of the Civil War. 27 00:03:07.729 --> 00:03:09.731 We're filming in lots of different schools 28 00:03:09.773 --> 00:03:11.316 all over the country. 29 00:03:11.358 --> 00:03:14.277 And going to places with a deep connection to this history. 30 00:03:15.236 --> 00:03:17.489 (loud cheering) 31 00:03:18.406 --> 00:03:20.575 - There's a lot more coming. 32 00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:28.875 [Student] What made you choose the civil war 33 00:03:28.917 --> 00:03:30.377 and reconstruction? 34 00:03:30.418 --> 00:03:32.545 [Director] Well, you know, America is kind of like a big 35 00:03:32.587 --> 00:03:36.007 family that tore itself apart during the civil war. 36 00:03:36.049 --> 00:03:38.218 And in order to make peace, 37 00:03:38.259 --> 00:03:40.804 we told ourselves a certain story about it. 38 00:03:40.845 --> 00:03:43.223 And for a long time, we had trouble telling 39 00:03:43.264 --> 00:03:46.935 the difference between that story and the truth. 40 00:03:47.268 --> 00:03:48.436 You can ask me anything you want. 41 00:03:48.478 --> 00:03:49.979 [Student] What did you want to do when you 42 00:03:50.021 --> 00:03:51.106 were little and did you have 43 00:03:51.147 --> 00:03:53.983 a backup for if you couldn't get that? 44 00:03:54.025 --> 00:03:56.653 [Director] When I was really little, I wanted to be Superman. 45 00:03:56.695 --> 00:03:59.489 When I got a little bit older, I wanted to be an anthropologist. 46 00:03:59.531 --> 00:04:00.907 Do you know what an anthropologists is? 47 00:04:00.949 --> 00:04:02.325 - No - Somebody 48 00:04:02.367 --> 00:04:03.576 who goes around the world and studies the way other 49 00:04:03.618 --> 00:04:05.370 people live like this. - So like this? 50 00:04:05.412 --> 00:04:06.913 [Director] Kind of like this. 51 00:04:06.955 --> 00:04:08.415 Yeah. 52 00:04:09.165 --> 00:04:10.333 [Isabel] People are having to come 53 00:04:10.375 --> 00:04:13.128 to grips with the civil war and enslavement, 54 00:04:13.169 --> 00:04:16.923 which are the sort of founding bases of the country. 55 00:04:17.632 --> 00:04:20.343 Our country is like a really old house. 56 00:04:20.385 --> 00:04:21.636 You may not want to go 57 00:04:21.678 --> 00:04:23.930 into that basement, but if you really don't go 58 00:04:23.972 --> 00:04:26.558 into that basement, it's at your own peril. 59 00:04:26.599 --> 00:04:28.560 Whatever you're ignoring will be 60 00:04:28.601 --> 00:04:32.355 there to be reckoned with until you reckon with it. 61 00:04:34.524 --> 00:04:37.360 (ominous music) 62 00:04:48.830 --> 00:04:50.790 (children talking) 63 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:08.475 [Instructor] These voices were all happening 64 00:05:08.516 --> 00:05:10.477 on the eve of the civil war. 65 00:05:10.518 --> 00:05:11.895 I'm interested in what you think about it. 66 00:05:11.936 --> 00:05:14.606 I'm interested in who, who's saying this. 67 00:05:14.647 --> 00:05:15.857 And I'm also going to give you 68 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:19.152 the secession documents from South Carolina. 69 00:05:19.819 --> 00:05:21.696 Where is he from? What's what's he about? 70 00:05:21.738 --> 00:05:23.156 Who is he? 71 00:05:23.198 --> 00:05:25.075 [Student] He's a Philadelphia congressman, I believe. 72 00:05:25.116 --> 00:05:27.452 [Instructor] No, Ohio. I think he's from Ohio. 73 00:05:27.494 --> 00:05:29.496 So he delivers this when? 74 00:05:29.537 --> 00:05:32.374 When is this written? Because that's one of the 75 00:05:32.415 --> 00:05:33.917 questions that I asked. - December, 22nd, 1860. 76 00:05:33.958 --> 00:05:35.001 [Instructor] Exactly. 77 00:05:35.043 --> 00:05:36.711 And what is he basically saying? 78 00:05:36.753 --> 00:05:38.672 - He doesn't want secession 79 00:05:38.713 --> 00:05:40.924 because he knows if there is secession 80 00:05:40.965 --> 00:05:42.509 there will be a huge war. 81 00:05:42.550 --> 00:05:44.386 [Instructor] People will know this war with their own eyes. 82 00:05:44.427 --> 00:05:48.765 They will, you know, really experience war amongst ourselves. 83 00:05:48.807 --> 00:05:50.517 He sounds scared, doesn't he? [Student] Yeah. 84 00:05:50.558 --> 00:05:52.644 [Instructor] Yeah. I think he probably was. 85 00:05:52.686 --> 00:05:55.355 What stood out to you in the arguments? 86 00:05:55.397 --> 00:05:57.399 [Student] So our article was presented 87 00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:00.360 by Alexander Stephens in Atlanta, Georgia. 88 00:06:00.402 --> 00:06:01.778 And not once does he talk about 89 00:06:01.820 --> 00:06:05.407 slavery, property and what the war is really 90 00:06:05.448 --> 00:06:07.409 about, what they're really fighting for. 91 00:06:07.450 --> 00:06:09.911 [Instructor] Other voices? Yeah. 92 00:06:10.787 --> 00:06:13.581 [Student] I noticed there seems to be 93 00:06:13.623 --> 00:06:19.462 a common idea that the civil war was totally about slavery. 94 00:06:19.504 --> 00:06:21.047 I'm going to disagree with that. 95 00:06:21.089 --> 00:06:23.258 The South did want to leave 96 00:06:23.299 --> 00:06:27.429 the union because of slavery, but the issue of the Civil War 97 00:06:27.470 --> 00:06:30.348 was keeping the south in the union. 98 00:06:30.390 --> 00:06:32.809 So slavery isn't like 99 00:06:33.435 --> 00:06:36.521 the entire issue. - Push back? Comments? 100 00:06:36.563 --> 00:06:38.273 (school bell rings) 101 00:06:38.314 --> 00:06:39.983 We will continue tomorrow. 102 00:06:40.942 --> 00:06:42.902 (student chatter) 103 00:06:43.611 --> 00:06:45.238 [Instructor] You are a thinker. 104 00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:46.656 That is for sure. 105 00:06:46.698 --> 00:06:48.658 The wedge is the slavery issue, right? 106 00:06:48.700 --> 00:06:49.909 I think we're agreed on that. 107 00:06:49.951 --> 00:06:51.745 It's just a way of describing it. 108 00:06:51.786 --> 00:06:54.080 Yeah. Good, good job. 109 00:06:54.122 --> 00:06:55.206 Go, go, go. 110 00:06:55.248 --> 00:06:56.416 [Director] You're spending a lot of time 111 00:06:56.458 --> 00:06:58.001 telling the story of the Civil War 112 00:06:58.043 --> 00:07:00.795 and Reconstruction in your eighth grade class. 113 00:07:00.837 --> 00:07:02.130 Why? 114 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:04.799 - Because I think 115 00:07:05.633 --> 00:07:09.179 we have not adequately, 116 00:07:09.220 --> 00:07:13.850 you know, understood who we are as a nation. 117 00:07:13.892 --> 00:07:15.769 There's so much of this history 118 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:19.689 that has been way too difficult for this country to look at. 119 00:07:19.731 --> 00:07:21.274 The reason it's important 120 00:07:21.316 --> 00:07:24.235 to understand this history is because we carry it within us. 121 00:07:24.277 --> 00:07:27.781 These things need to be unpacked and looked at and talked about 122 00:07:27.822 --> 00:07:31.284 and and we need to decide what we think about them now. 123 00:07:31.326 --> 00:07:35.205 It's challenging, but it's, it's where the juice is. 124 00:07:40.210 --> 00:07:41.878 (distant dog bark) 125 00:07:48.677 --> 00:07:50.136 - We call it a war between the states here. 126 00:07:50.178 --> 00:07:51.638 We don't call it a civil war. 127 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:53.181 [Director] Why is it important to cause 128 00:07:53.223 --> 00:07:54.140 the war between the states? 129 00:07:54.182 --> 00:07:55.433 - Because that's what it was. 130 00:07:55.475 --> 00:07:56.643 It wasn't a civil war. 131 00:07:56.685 --> 00:07:59.521 [Herb] Or the war of northern aggression. 132 00:07:59.562 --> 00:08:00.980 The North came down here and divided us. 133 00:08:01.022 --> 00:08:03.191 We didn't go up there. - My grandmother was saying they 134 00:08:03.233 --> 00:08:05.985 had to hide the food in the chimney because 135 00:08:06.027 --> 00:08:08.488 the soldiers came in, would take everything they had. 136 00:08:08.530 --> 00:08:11.658 They took all their livestock, any food that was in the house. 137 00:08:11.700 --> 00:08:13.034 It was terrible. 138 00:08:13.076 --> 00:08:17.163 And the war took place in our backyard. 139 00:08:17.205 --> 00:08:20.583 But the people up north, the war was a distant thing. 140 00:08:21.209 --> 00:08:24.212 We're both members of the local Sons of Confederate Veterans 141 00:08:24.254 --> 00:08:28.174 and we are responsible for taking care of this cemetery. 142 00:08:28.216 --> 00:08:29.342 But I'm afraid when the Herb 143 00:08:29.384 --> 00:08:32.554 are gone and our generations, that it'll, 144 00:08:33.388 --> 00:08:35.807 there's not gonna be anybody around to take care of it. 145 00:08:36.558 --> 00:08:38.518 [Herb] Or to promote the true history 146 00:08:38.560 --> 00:08:40.937 of the 1860-1865 period of time. 147 00:08:40.979 --> 00:08:42.772 [Director] This class that I'm filming, 148 00:08:42.814 --> 00:08:45.150 the teacher is teaching the cause of the war is slavery. 149 00:08:45.191 --> 00:08:46.860 - Oh, really? 150 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:48.778 [Director] And so 151 00:08:49.529 --> 00:08:51.656 does that offend you? [Herb] Yes. 152 00:08:51.698 --> 00:08:53.533 [Director] can you explain to me why? 153 00:08:53.575 --> 00:08:54.868 [Herb] Because it's not true. 154 00:08:54.909 --> 00:08:56.870 You're telling stories that aren't true about 155 00:08:56.911 --> 00:09:01.750 my my ancestry, about my family, about my country, the south. 156 00:09:02.125 --> 00:09:03.168 [Director] And what's, tell me what 157 00:09:03.209 --> 00:09:06.755 the untrue thing is? [Herb] Slavery. 158 00:09:07.130 --> 00:09:10.008 They are not telling the whole story. 159 00:09:10.050 --> 00:09:11.843 Slavery was one of the reasons. 160 00:09:11.885 --> 00:09:15.388 But but for that professor to say that economics 161 00:09:15.430 --> 00:09:18.475 had nothing to do with that war is totally false. 162 00:09:18.516 --> 00:09:19.976 - I would have fought for the South. 163 00:09:20.018 --> 00:09:22.479 You know why? It had nothing to do with political reason. 164 00:09:22.520 --> 00:09:24.272 Because my home was being invaded. 165 00:09:28.026 --> 00:09:30.070 (somber music) 166 00:09:33.114 --> 00:09:36.576 [Dr. Blight] The Confederacy lost this war big time. 167 00:09:36.618 --> 00:09:38.745 No Americans have ever lost 168 00:09:38.787 --> 00:09:42.832 a war quite like the Confederacy, lost this war. 169 00:09:46.294 --> 00:09:48.963 (slow music) 170 00:09:53.635 --> 00:09:55.345 White southerners are going 171 00:09:55.387 --> 00:09:59.432 to need to process what the meaning of that whole 172 00:09:59.474 --> 00:10:02.310 collapse of their society really is. 173 00:10:05.522 --> 00:10:09.776 And their explanation of their defeat becomes a narrative. 174 00:10:10.694 --> 00:10:12.862 It becomes a memory, 175 00:10:12.904 --> 00:10:15.782 it becomes the lost cause tradition 176 00:10:15.824 --> 00:10:18.993 and the lost cause tradition was this argument 177 00:10:19.035 --> 00:10:22.914 that the Confederacy had really fought for noble aims. 178 00:10:22.956 --> 00:10:25.542 The war wasn't really entirely about slavery. 179 00:10:25.583 --> 00:10:26.918 It was about defending their 180 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.464 homelands, their families, their women. 181 00:10:32.757 --> 00:10:37.262 The slavery was not the great issue. If it were left to them, 182 00:10:37.303 --> 00:10:40.348 they would have handled slavery over time and maybe even gotten 183 00:10:40.390 --> 00:10:44.728 rid of it themselves, they said, which is nonsense. 184 00:10:44.769 --> 00:10:46.479 There were alternative textbooks 185 00:10:46.521 --> 00:10:49.899 eventually published in the South, 186 00:10:49.941 --> 00:10:52.902 and it wasn't just textbooks they were trying to control. 187 00:10:52.944 --> 00:10:58.199 It was the stories being widely told in the public arena, 188 00:10:59.075 --> 00:11:01.369 and they had a tremendous influence. 189 00:11:01.786 --> 00:11:03.580 So what is at stake in the memory 190 00:11:03.621 --> 00:11:08.168 of the American Civil War, is who gets to control this narrative? 191 00:11:08.209 --> 00:11:09.419 The story. 192 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:12.630 [Director] Ok, wait. I've got to move the microphone 193 00:11:12.672 --> 00:11:13.882 before I get started. 194 00:11:14.215 --> 00:11:15.342 Yeah. 195 00:11:16.885 --> 00:11:19.220 Do you have any questions for me? 196 00:11:20.388 --> 00:11:22.807 [Student] I had one. I forgot what it was. 197 00:11:28.229 --> 00:11:31.524 Do you consider yourself a radical person? 198 00:11:31.566 --> 00:11:33.985 [Director] Am I a radical person? 199 00:11:35.195 --> 00:11:39.199 No, I'm not a radical person. I think I'm someone 200 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.203 who questions things. I'm questioning the stories we 201 00:11:43.244 --> 00:11:47.248 tell, like in your class, the story about slavery, right? 202 00:11:47.290 --> 00:11:50.335 They tell us something about why we're so divided. 203 00:11:50.377 --> 00:11:52.879 Do you see us living in a divided country? 204 00:11:52.921 --> 00:11:54.047 - Every day. 205 00:11:58.426 --> 00:12:01.012 (somber music) 206 00:12:06.434 --> 00:12:09.229 (somber music) 207 00:12:19.948 --> 00:12:22.784 (somber music) 208 00:12:31.918 --> 00:12:34.462 (children chatter) 209 00:12:41.803 --> 00:12:44.431 (children chatter) 210 00:12:46.349 --> 00:12:49.227 [Student] The Holmes Central High School creed. 211 00:12:49.269 --> 00:12:51.604 I am a member of the Holmes Central High School family. 212 00:12:51.646 --> 00:12:53.440 Education first our motto. 213 00:12:53.481 --> 00:12:58.069 [Instructor] The kids that I have here are determined to not 214 00:12:58.111 --> 00:13:01.072 follow in the footsteps of what was in the past. 215 00:13:01.114 --> 00:13:04.451 I'm hoping I can spark something to say. 216 00:13:04.492 --> 00:13:05.952 I want to know more. 217 00:13:05.994 --> 00:13:09.122 I want to learn more. [Director] In Mississippi, 218 00:13:09.164 --> 00:13:12.876 do people talk about slavery as the cause of the war? 219 00:13:12.917 --> 00:13:13.877 [Instructor] You don't really hear the word 220 00:13:13.918 --> 00:13:16.212 slavery or slaves in Mississippi. 221 00:13:16.254 --> 00:13:18.715 That was an incidental part of it. 222 00:13:18.757 --> 00:13:21.009 I guess the simple term is whitewash. 223 00:13:21.051 --> 00:13:23.845 As I told my clients, is that 224 00:13:23.887 --> 00:13:27.849 a lot of time you want to see the good part 225 00:13:27.891 --> 00:13:29.684 of the history, especially the history that you 226 00:13:29.726 --> 00:13:33.396 are part of, and you want to minimize 227 00:13:34.689 --> 00:13:36.816 the bad part about it. 228 00:13:37.859 --> 00:13:41.112 Slavery is not an easy topic to tackle for black or for white. 229 00:13:41.154 --> 00:13:44.157 [Director] So how do you tackle the story of slavery? 230 00:13:44.199 --> 00:13:46.534 [Instructor] One thing is that, the slaves 231 00:13:46.576 --> 00:13:50.330 were more powerful than you give them credit for. 232 00:13:50.789 --> 00:13:52.999 [Student] People say that Lincoln freed 233 00:13:53.041 --> 00:13:56.795 the slaves, but you say actually they freed themselves. 234 00:13:56.836 --> 00:13:59.089 [Instructor] That was a question? 235 00:13:59.130 --> 00:14:01.132 - Why couldn't slaves free themselves 236 00:14:01.174 --> 00:14:05.887 in a sense, before all of this if they freed themselves? 237 00:14:05.929 --> 00:14:09.516 [Instructor] We didn't have the abolition. We we did have was 238 00:14:09.557 --> 00:14:12.602 Nat Turner, you know, you had those people who step forward. 239 00:14:13.770 --> 00:14:16.690 Those people to me were just as brave 240 00:14:16.731 --> 00:14:20.068 as the 1960's, probably more brave. 241 00:14:20.110 --> 00:14:21.194 [Student] Come on. 242 00:14:22.445 --> 00:14:24.155 [Instructor] Think about Nat Turner. 243 00:14:24.197 --> 00:14:25.532 [Student] Slave. He's crazy. 244 00:14:25.573 --> 00:14:27.742 To make a change, you got to be a little crazy. 245 00:14:27.784 --> 00:14:30.578 [Instructor] That's it. He calls people to think. He went 246 00:14:30.620 --> 00:14:34.916 from plantation to plantation, killing everybody. 247 00:14:35.709 --> 00:14:38.795 And he wanted to kill the women and children. 248 00:14:38.837 --> 00:14:41.006 He wanted to do that, why? 249 00:14:41.047 --> 00:14:42.966 [Student] you expect for a dude to be dead, 250 00:14:43.008 --> 00:14:45.760 you expect our mother, three kids, stuff like that 251 00:14:45.802 --> 00:14:47.679 the pay, you got him. If you want them, 252 00:14:47.721 --> 00:14:49.222 he's dead. He set the right tone. 253 00:14:49.264 --> 00:14:52.726 You out here killing wives, children. Oh yeah. 254 00:14:52.767 --> 00:14:54.978 [Student] He probably was a grumpy slave owner anyway. 255 00:14:55.020 --> 00:14:58.314 [Instructor] Don't take for granted the lives that were lost. 256 00:14:58.356 --> 00:15:01.443 Who was brave enough to try to system when it's wrong? 257 00:15:01.484 --> 00:15:05.030 That's what makes these guys to be heroic. 258 00:15:05.071 --> 00:15:07.615 We can't devalue what we did. 259 00:15:07.657 --> 00:15:09.617 A white guy whose grandfather 260 00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:13.538 was a confederate and they can't keep their memory alive. 261 00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:15.248 Why can't we? 262 00:15:23.923 --> 00:15:25.633 [Student] In Holmes County, 263 00:15:25.675 --> 00:15:30.263 I noticed how we had the Browns and the Williams. 264 00:15:30.305 --> 00:15:33.892 I mean, we also had Caucasian people with the same last name. 265 00:15:33.933 --> 00:15:35.769 And I was I always wondering, like, 266 00:15:35.810 --> 00:15:38.605 is there a relation between the two? 267 00:15:38.646 --> 00:15:40.273 And then I learned that, 268 00:15:40.315 --> 00:15:43.068 you know, slaves got their last names from their slave owners. 269 00:15:43.109 --> 00:15:47.864 So is like, did this family own this 270 00:15:47.906 --> 00:15:52.452 family or like did they? I always wondered about that. 271 00:15:52.494 --> 00:15:54.913 [Director] There's this enormous history 272 00:15:54.954 --> 00:15:56.456 of slavery in Holmes County. 273 00:15:56.498 --> 00:15:59.626 Do people ever talk about that? [Student] About? 274 00:15:59.668 --> 00:16:03.171 [Director] Just the question of the history of slavery here? 275 00:16:04.756 --> 00:16:06.466 - No. 276 00:16:07.300 --> 00:16:12.472 [Director] Do you know if your ancestors were enslaved here? 277 00:16:12.514 --> 00:16:14.391 - I don't know. 278 00:16:14.432 --> 00:16:15.975 [Director] Would you want to know? 279 00:16:16.017 --> 00:16:18.061 - Not really. [Director] Why? 280 00:16:18.103 --> 00:16:20.605 - Because I don't want to 281 00:16:20.647 --> 00:16:24.025 think about what all they went through for us. 282 00:16:24.067 --> 00:16:25.485 [Director] How come? 283 00:16:25.527 --> 00:16:30.824 - Because they worked for all their life being 284 00:16:30.865 --> 00:16:34.285 enslaved and not being treated right. 285 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:36.871 They'll just bring 286 00:16:36.913 --> 00:16:41.668 me down because they suffered and I wish somebody could've 287 00:16:41.710 --> 00:16:44.587 did something back then to help them out. 288 00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:46.172 [Director] And so you don't want to think 289 00:16:46.214 --> 00:16:47.424 about it because it makes you sad. 290 00:16:47.465 --> 00:16:48.758 - Mm hmm. 291 00:16:49.217 --> 00:16:52.303 - I don't want to hate people. 292 00:16:52.345 --> 00:16:58.476 And I want to hate people based on their 293 00:16:58.518 --> 00:17:03.356 character towards me now, not what they did 294 00:17:03.398 --> 00:17:05.984 hundreds of years to go or their family did 295 00:17:06.026 --> 00:17:07.402 hundreds of years ago. 296 00:17:07.444 --> 00:17:09.029 [Director] I think white people are afraid 297 00:17:09.070 --> 00:17:10.739 that it's going to make them feel ashamed. 298 00:17:10.780 --> 00:17:12.866 - Yeah, I think so, too. 299 00:17:12.907 --> 00:17:17.537 That's why it's, they probably when they're teaching, 300 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:19.748 I know I keep going back to, you know, the teaching. But it's 301 00:17:19.789 --> 00:17:23.460 where it all starts because I doubt you, if 302 00:17:23.501 --> 00:17:28.089 a white man would tell his six year old daughter, 303 00:17:28.131 --> 00:17:32.177 we own slaves or we did this to slaves or like, 304 00:17:32.218 --> 00:17:33.970 I doubt if that happens. 305 00:17:34.012 --> 00:17:38.350 - I think we all should learn the real history because 306 00:17:38.391 --> 00:17:41.227 as black people, we think we know, but we don't. 307 00:17:41.811 --> 00:17:43.396 I never met my great 308 00:17:43.438 --> 00:17:48.318 grandmother, and, you know, they don't talk about slavery, 309 00:17:49.194 --> 00:17:51.321 and the racial desegregation. 310 00:17:51.363 --> 00:17:53.239 They don't talk about it. 311 00:17:53.281 --> 00:17:55.075 [Director] Would you want to ask her about it? 312 00:17:55.116 --> 00:17:57.077 - I would, 313 00:17:57.118 --> 00:17:59.079 but I wouldn't. 314 00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:04.042 I think she would say she don't know, to avoid the conversation. 315 00:18:04.626 --> 00:18:06.086 [Director] And why do you think she would 316 00:18:06.127 --> 00:18:07.462 want to avoid the conversation? 317 00:18:09.673 --> 00:18:11.966 - It might hurt her, 318 00:18:12.008 --> 00:18:14.761 she might feel mad about it. 319 00:18:15.929 --> 00:18:17.430 [Director] It's hard to talk about things like that. 320 00:18:17.472 --> 00:18:18.640 - Yeah. 321 00:18:27.899 --> 00:18:31.152 (slow music) 322 00:18:48.044 --> 00:18:50.755 [Instructor] It's personal around here, we're in a southern 323 00:18:50.797 --> 00:18:53.341 city and we're talking about the civil war. 324 00:18:55.468 --> 00:18:56.970 And I'm going to have students 325 00:18:57.012 --> 00:18:59.347 who are pulling for the Confederacy. 326 00:18:59.389 --> 00:19:00.807 I was that student, I pulled 327 00:19:00.849 --> 00:19:03.309 for the Confederacy because they're southern. 328 00:19:03.351 --> 00:19:04.602 I'm Southern, right. 329 00:19:04.644 --> 00:19:06.813 And it's not about slavery in your mind. 330 00:19:06.855 --> 00:19:09.482 It's just like it's the Cowboys versus the Redskins. 331 00:19:09.524 --> 00:19:11.985 And you want the Cowboys to win the football game, right? 332 00:19:12.027 --> 00:19:13.987 That's what it is in their head. 333 00:19:14.029 --> 00:19:18.366 So when you throw slavery in there, it complicates it. 334 00:19:19.534 --> 00:19:21.119 It's not a football game. 335 00:19:21.161 --> 00:19:23.204 This was real. 336 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:25.331 Most history classes we teach 337 00:19:25.373 --> 00:19:27.709 that the winners write history, the civil war, 338 00:19:27.751 --> 00:19:29.878 the losers end up writing the history. 339 00:19:29.919 --> 00:19:32.422 When we look at Southerners and how they try 340 00:19:32.464 --> 00:19:35.008 to twist the narrative of what happens, I want us to put 341 00:19:35.050 --> 00:19:37.469 ourselves in their shoes and look at why. 342 00:19:37.510 --> 00:19:39.929 If you can teach empathy when it comes to history. 343 00:19:39.971 --> 00:19:41.014 I think it's such a powerful 344 00:19:41.056 --> 00:19:42.891 thing for the rest of your lives. 345 00:19:42.932 --> 00:19:45.560 All right, boys, in your packet, 346 00:19:45.602 --> 00:19:48.897 turn to new perspectives on slavery. 347 00:19:48.938 --> 00:19:53.485 What we've got here are statistics about slavery. 348 00:19:53.526 --> 00:19:56.279 And I want you to talk about what jumps out at you. 349 00:19:56.321 --> 00:19:57.781 [Student] It says about 350 00:19:57.822 --> 00:20:00.867 like one point one million Southern white families owned no 351 00:20:00.909 --> 00:20:04.204 slaves and that only about three hundred and fifty 352 00:20:04.245 --> 00:20:06.081 a little over 350,000 owned slaves. 353 00:20:06.122 --> 00:20:07.499 That's only like a fourth or 354 00:20:07.540 --> 00:20:09.959 fifth, which actually a pretty crazy statistic. 355 00:20:10.001 --> 00:20:11.544 So a handful of people have, 356 00:20:11.586 --> 00:20:13.630 you know, one like five slaves that probably was just around 357 00:20:13.672 --> 00:20:16.633 the household, which probably were treated pretty well. 358 00:20:16.675 --> 00:20:18.009 [Instructor] Well, it depends. 359 00:20:18.051 --> 00:20:19.636 [Student] Of course, the southerners were trying to, 360 00:20:19.678 --> 00:20:21.596 you know, I mean, they weren't treated 361 00:20:21.638 --> 00:20:24.182 like regular humans, but they they took care of them 362 00:20:24.224 --> 00:20:25.809 because they were like a way to make money. 363 00:20:25.850 --> 00:20:27.727 [Instructor] Correct. It's an investment. 364 00:20:27.769 --> 00:20:29.688 That's my money. I need to take care of my money. 365 00:20:29.729 --> 00:20:31.981 I want that to keep producing more money for me. 366 00:20:32.023 --> 00:20:34.901 Therefore, I take care of it and I don't take care of it 367 00:20:34.943 --> 00:20:38.780 and provide. I mean, it's still a dirt floor they sleep on. 368 00:20:38.822 --> 00:20:41.116 You know, it's still I'm working 10 to 12 hours. 369 00:20:41.157 --> 00:20:42.409 It's not. 370 00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:46.079 Let's look at 210, whippings per person. 371 00:20:46.454 --> 00:20:48.707 In the south, where was the wealth? 372 00:20:48.748 --> 00:20:52.836 So owning land and owning slaves? 373 00:20:53.628 --> 00:20:56.339 if I invested twenty three thousand dollars in something, 374 00:20:56.381 --> 00:20:58.883 I don't want to beat it to a pulp. 375 00:20:58.925 --> 00:21:00.010 Right? 376 00:21:00.051 --> 00:21:01.928 So why do they do it? [Student] Fear. 377 00:21:01.970 --> 00:21:04.597 [Instructor] Fear, you hit on it. That's the word. 378 00:21:04.639 --> 00:21:08.226 Here's what American slavery is about, money and fear. 379 00:21:08.601 --> 00:21:10.061 They are making lots of money 380 00:21:10.103 --> 00:21:13.606 and they are terrified of what happens if this goes away. 381 00:21:13.648 --> 00:21:15.066 What happens when people talk 382 00:21:15.108 --> 00:21:16.693 about abolition and emancipation? 383 00:21:16.735 --> 00:21:20.030 What do I start picturing in my head? 384 00:21:20.655 --> 00:21:23.533 [Student] Getting lynched? [Instructor] Yes, retribution. 385 00:21:23.575 --> 00:21:25.493 They're going to come after us. 386 00:21:25.535 --> 00:21:26.661 So you could look at and say, 387 00:21:26.703 --> 00:21:29.956 you know, the situation's not great, but 388 00:21:29.998 --> 00:21:31.499 I don't want to get lynched. 389 00:21:31.541 --> 00:21:34.586 I don't like people throwing rocks through my windows. 390 00:21:37.672 --> 00:21:39.799 (woman on tv) The violence. 391 00:21:39.841 --> 00:21:45.263 Police officers pointed guns into crowds of young people. 392 00:21:45.305 --> 00:21:47.599 It was shocking to me. 393 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:51.353 Why are we still in a war in this country over race? 394 00:21:51.394 --> 00:21:55.106 - Slavery? - Slavery, It lasted 200 years. 395 00:21:55.148 --> 00:21:58.818 You have to develop a psychology on the part of the white people 396 00:21:58.860 --> 00:22:03.239 who are doing this that involves enormous acts of denial. 397 00:22:03.281 --> 00:22:08.495 We haven't even claimed it as the horrific system that it was. 398 00:22:08.536 --> 00:22:12.040 - She says slavery is the cause. 399 00:22:13.333 --> 00:22:16.336 And so many white people that we hear say, don't talk to me about 400 00:22:16.378 --> 00:22:20.048 slavery, I didn't own slaves, my parents didn't own slaves. 401 00:22:20.090 --> 00:22:25.553 - The cultural conditioning that began in slavery has continued. 402 00:22:25.595 --> 00:22:28.014 The privileges that you see some 403 00:22:28.056 --> 00:22:31.393 white people have goes back to, I'm more than you. 404 00:22:31.434 --> 00:22:34.479 I'm better than you. - Why? why? why? 405 00:22:34.521 --> 00:22:37.399 Why are they better? 406 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.817 - Oh, I don't believe it. - I know it, 407 00:22:38.858 --> 00:22:40.985 but why do they think they're better? 408 00:22:41.820 --> 00:22:43.363 - Privilege. 409 00:22:43.405 --> 00:22:44.948 Privilege has told them they're better. 410 00:22:44.989 --> 00:22:46.950 - I mean, they don't even know that they're privileged. 411 00:22:46.991 --> 00:22:48.660 I remember a book I read in seminary. 412 00:22:48.702 --> 00:22:50.495 - Excuse me. I don't buy that. 413 00:22:50.537 --> 00:22:53.540 They don't know they're privileged. 414 00:22:53.581 --> 00:22:55.083 - They have a 415 00:22:55.125 --> 00:23:00.630 well, no, I serve a congregation of overeducated white people 416 00:23:00.672 --> 00:23:02.841 who don't recognize their privilege. 417 00:23:02.882 --> 00:23:05.552 They don't see that you start that. 418 00:23:05.593 --> 00:23:08.596 It's just the norm. It's their norm. 419 00:23:08.638 --> 00:23:10.807 - If you don't feel that you are privileged, 420 00:23:10.849 --> 00:23:15.562 how do you account for the differences between 421 00:23:15.603 --> 00:23:18.231 white people and disadvantaged black people? 422 00:23:18.273 --> 00:23:20.233 - They're not comparing themselves to black people. 423 00:23:20.275 --> 00:23:23.111 Like my white friends are mostly comparing themselves 424 00:23:23.153 --> 00:23:27.574 to other highly educated, well-off white friends. 425 00:23:27.615 --> 00:23:31.494 - But when you say white people can't get it, I don't. 426 00:23:31.536 --> 00:23:33.288 I don't buy it. 427 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:34.497 - Well, I don't know why they can't get. 428 00:23:34.539 --> 00:23:35.707 - I don't buy it for a moment. 429 00:23:35.749 --> 00:23:40.712 Since the 60s, I have been proving myself. 430 00:23:40.754 --> 00:23:45.633 And there comes a point in life when you say I'm done. 431 00:23:46.384 --> 00:23:50.013 It's on them now because I know I'm Ok. 432 00:23:50.930 --> 00:23:53.516 So the way I look at it, is your loss. 433 00:23:54.351 --> 00:23:57.687 I don't intend to spend all of my life proving to white 434 00:23:57.729 --> 00:24:00.940 people that I'm Ok. - Don't prove it 435 00:24:00.982 --> 00:24:03.485 just I think we've got to educate. 436 00:24:03.526 --> 00:24:04.778 We got to educate them. - No, we don't. 437 00:24:04.819 --> 00:24:06.112 - Well, I'm what I'm saying is that 438 00:24:06.154 --> 00:24:09.824 there's nothing wrong with having a conversation... 439 00:24:18.792 --> 00:24:20.335 [Instructor] Last night I was at this dinner, 440 00:24:20.377 --> 00:24:22.003 it was this conversation about 441 00:24:22.045 --> 00:24:24.881 slavery being the source of our racial problems. 442 00:24:24.923 --> 00:24:27.133 The topic of white privilege came up a lot. 443 00:24:27.175 --> 00:24:28.760 You know, the idea of, you know, 444 00:24:28.802 --> 00:24:32.847 white people have advantages in this country 445 00:24:32.889 --> 00:24:34.182 or, 446 00:24:34.224 --> 00:24:35.558 yeah, I mean, advantages. 447 00:24:35.600 --> 00:24:37.936 Or you could flip it around, say black people have 448 00:24:37.977 --> 00:24:42.524 disadvantages in this country simply because of skin tone. 449 00:24:42.565 --> 00:24:44.150 [Student] I feel like it kind of goes both ways. 450 00:24:44.192 --> 00:24:46.403 Sometimes white people have a disadvantage. 451 00:24:46.444 --> 00:24:47.529 I had a friend a couple of years ago, 452 00:24:47.570 --> 00:24:50.323 his cumulative GPA was like a 4.26 453 00:24:50.365 --> 00:24:52.784 and then he had a friend that was black 454 00:24:52.826 --> 00:24:55.078 that had like a 3.9 like a 33. 455 00:24:55.120 --> 00:24:56.162 And they both applied 456 00:24:56.204 --> 00:24:58.665 to Princeton and the black kid got in. 457 00:24:58.707 --> 00:25:00.875 I feel like everyone says, well, there's a lot of white 458 00:25:00.917 --> 00:25:04.170 privilege, so we have to give other, like 459 00:25:04.212 --> 00:25:07.132 other ethnicities advantages in this place instead of trying 460 00:25:07.173 --> 00:25:09.759 to view everyone as just like an American. 461 00:25:09.801 --> 00:25:11.428 [Student] I mean, just not talking about 462 00:25:11.469 --> 00:25:13.763 the race issue, just not 463 00:25:13.805 --> 00:25:18.393 bringing it up to the next generation would 464 00:25:18.435 --> 00:25:22.522 keep them natural in that sense and they would not be racist. 465 00:25:22.564 --> 00:25:24.274 - I don't think that slavery 466 00:25:24.315 --> 00:25:27.694 and the Civil War and Jim Crow should be forgotten. 467 00:25:27.736 --> 00:25:29.362 I think that they should be remembered because I think 468 00:25:29.404 --> 00:25:32.699 they're an important lesson that America isn't perfect 469 00:25:32.741 --> 00:25:35.994 and to, like, work against that in the future. 470 00:25:36.036 --> 00:25:37.704 [Instructor] If you look at things like 471 00:25:37.746 --> 00:25:40.040 the incarceration rate for, you know, 472 00:25:40.081 --> 00:25:44.419 young black men in this country, why it's so disproportional or 473 00:25:44.461 --> 00:25:48.173 why you have the socioeconomic situations that you have 474 00:25:48.214 --> 00:25:50.717 between, say, white people and black people, 475 00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:54.012 that you can see this didn't come out of nowhere. 476 00:25:54.054 --> 00:25:57.432 This isn't a reflection of the tone of somebody's skin. 477 00:25:57.474 --> 00:26:00.894 It's based in history that goes back before your generation, 478 00:26:00.935 --> 00:26:03.521 before my generation, before my grandparents. 479 00:26:03.563 --> 00:26:05.106 It goes way back. 480 00:26:05.148 --> 00:26:06.399 [Student] I think there's a balance 481 00:26:06.441 --> 00:26:08.318 between recognizing our past, 482 00:26:08.360 --> 00:26:12.113 but also not over talking it and just overemphasizing 483 00:26:12.155 --> 00:26:14.032 the problem to where it's always on our minds. 484 00:26:14.074 --> 00:26:18.370 And then it's difficult to be very equal when that's something 485 00:26:18.411 --> 00:26:22.791 that's always on your mind, is racism and things like that. 486 00:26:29.631 --> 00:26:32.634 (somber music) 487 00:26:33.301 --> 00:26:34.844 - So please welcome 488 00:26:34.886 --> 00:26:36.971 Dr. Kelly Carter Jackson. 489 00:26:37.013 --> 00:26:38.390 (applause) 490 00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:40.767 [Kelly] So first off, I want to tell you 491 00:26:40.809 --> 00:26:43.353 a story about one of my students, 492 00:26:43.395 --> 00:26:48.441 he raised his hand and he said, who is Harriet Tubman? 493 00:26:48.483 --> 00:26:52.112 I was like, oh, my God, I tried really hard, you know, 494 00:26:52.153 --> 00:26:53.905 to sort of like as a professor, you have to, like, 495 00:26:53.947 --> 00:26:56.783 fix your face before I could answer the question. 496 00:26:56.825 --> 00:26:59.703 He goes, oh, I remember. 497 00:26:59.744 --> 00:27:01.913 She's the woman who wouldn't get off the bus. 498 00:27:01.955 --> 00:27:05.500 And I was like, no, no, that's not her at all. 499 00:27:05.542 --> 00:27:06.918 But it's important because I 500 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.963 think it highlights the fact that we only see, like, 501 00:27:10.005 --> 00:27:13.967 one great black man and one great black woman per century. 502 00:27:14.009 --> 00:27:16.386 So, Force and Freedom, my book really tries 503 00:27:16.428 --> 00:27:20.306 to introduce new voices and to highlight black abolitionist 504 00:27:20.348 --> 00:27:21.599 in particular. 505 00:27:21.641 --> 00:27:24.185 The moment the first black person is enslaved, 506 00:27:24.227 --> 00:27:27.230 they're pushing back. They're collecting arms as much as they 507 00:27:27.272 --> 00:27:31.317 possibly can to prepare for what they believe is inevitable, 508 00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:34.237 and that is the violent overthrow of slavery. 509 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.741 - There seems to be a kind of particular resistance 510 00:27:37.782 --> 00:27:42.954 to teaching this aspect of American history. 511 00:27:42.996 --> 00:27:45.123 And, look and I think, you know, I'm also a historian 512 00:27:45.165 --> 00:27:47.834 I can understand. I can dissipate why. 513 00:27:47.876 --> 00:27:51.171 But I just want to get you to talk about 514 00:27:51.212 --> 00:27:52.714 it takes your book 515 00:27:52.756 --> 00:27:56.551 to underscore force as well as freedom. 516 00:27:56.593 --> 00:27:58.011 You know, and we all know that that's 517 00:27:58.053 --> 00:28:00.972 a part of this history, but it's not taught that way. 518 00:28:01.014 --> 00:28:02.682 [Kelly] It's not taught, I think, 519 00:28:02.724 --> 00:28:07.687 because we have this hypocritical, I think, 520 00:28:07.729 --> 00:28:09.939 hypocritical love affair with violence. 521 00:28:09.981 --> 00:28:14.527 We talk about violence, I think, in these really romantic ways. 522 00:28:14.569 --> 00:28:17.989 But that's only when we're talking about white men. 523 00:28:18.031 --> 00:28:20.283 When the situation is reversed, 524 00:28:20.325 --> 00:28:25.246 it is terrifying to think of black people using force or 525 00:28:25.288 --> 00:28:27.457 using violence to bring about their freedom. 526 00:28:33.254 --> 00:28:36.049 (crew chatter) 527 00:28:36.091 --> 00:28:37.342 [Director] so I want to talk to you about 528 00:28:37.384 --> 00:28:40.470 what you've learned so far, right, in college. 529 00:28:40.512 --> 00:28:41.846 Is there anything you've learned 530 00:28:41.888 --> 00:28:44.057 here about the story of the civil war that would be 531 00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:46.309 hard to talk about with people back home? 532 00:28:46.351 --> 00:28:48.937 [Student] Yeah, my daddy is that typical 533 00:28:48.978 --> 00:28:51.147 Southern male, a lot of he knows 534 00:28:51.189 --> 00:28:53.900 everything and you don't question him. 535 00:28:53.942 --> 00:28:56.069 And, you know, I love him to death. 536 00:28:56.111 --> 00:28:57.195 That's just the way he 537 00:28:57.237 --> 00:28:58.530 is, that's the way people are down here. 538 00:28:58.571 --> 00:29:00.615 If I told him that the main 539 00:29:00.657 --> 00:29:05.870 cause of the Civil War was slavery and he would probably 540 00:29:06.538 --> 00:29:09.040 like open the Bible and start 541 00:29:09.082 --> 00:29:12.752 preaching at me and stuff like that, I don't know. 542 00:29:12.794 --> 00:29:14.754 [Director] How would he find that offensive? 543 00:29:14.796 --> 00:29:16.715 Well, my 544 00:29:16.756 --> 00:29:18.174 great great grandfather did 545 00:29:18.216 --> 00:29:21.928 fight in the Civil War and he did come back like he 546 00:29:21.970 --> 00:29:23.722 didn't die or anything. He came back alive. 547 00:29:23.763 --> 00:29:25.015 But it may set him up so bad. 548 00:29:25.056 --> 00:29:26.558 And it was a bad situation 549 00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:29.769 for my family at the time that I would not know near enough 550 00:29:29.811 --> 00:29:32.772 about to really like be able to give details. 551 00:29:32.814 --> 00:29:34.190 But 552 00:29:34.232 --> 00:29:38.236 it's just like a remembrance of how hard times were 553 00:29:38.278 --> 00:29:40.530 at that time, because it was really hard 554 00:29:40.572 --> 00:29:45.577 for my family because we're born and raised in Pontotoc, Mississippi. 555 00:29:45.618 --> 00:29:48.455 And like in my grandparents 556 00:29:48.496 --> 00:29:52.208 house, there's a no telling how old rebel 557 00:29:52.250 --> 00:29:55.628 flag like in one of those flag boxes like this. 558 00:29:55.670 --> 00:29:58.631 And we don't, you know, take it out. 559 00:29:58.673 --> 00:29:59.966 We don't rub it in people's noses. 560 00:30:00.008 --> 00:30:03.011 It's just, you know, up there above a cabinet. 561 00:30:06.806 --> 00:30:09.267 (Rhythmic drum music) 562 00:30:16.191 --> 00:30:18.151 - It has been called the war 563 00:30:18.193 --> 00:30:21.571 brother against brother, the Civil War 564 00:30:21.613 --> 00:30:25.241 soldier and nation together found that their fears 565 00:30:25.283 --> 00:30:28.620 and doubts were not so strong as their faith. 566 00:30:28.661 --> 00:30:30.830 And in national shrines like 567 00:30:30.872 --> 00:30:33.667 Gettysburg, we memorialize the men of both 568 00:30:33.708 --> 00:30:37.337 sides who gave of themselves unreservedly for what they 569 00:30:37.379 --> 00:30:42.509 believe to be right. Remember and be proud. 570 00:30:47.347 --> 00:30:51.184 [Dr. Blight] We've never really had a racial reckoning. 571 00:30:52.310 --> 00:30:56.356 The problem started first immediately after the war, 572 00:30:56.398 --> 00:30:59.609 if you want north and south to get together and get along 573 00:30:59.651 --> 00:31:03.196 again, you don't talk about causes and consequences. 574 00:31:03.238 --> 00:31:07.117 You talk about the mutual valor on that battlefield. 575 00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:13.623 (somber music) 576 00:31:19.671 --> 00:31:21.214 Why doesn't that Confederacy, 577 00:31:21.256 --> 00:31:24.300 which only lasted four years, just go away? 578 00:31:24.342 --> 00:31:27.470 The racial reasons are paramount, but it also has to do 579 00:31:27.512 --> 00:31:31.891 with this idea that the Confederacy was a decent. 580 00:31:31.933 --> 00:31:33.435 Man, they went to the limit and 581 00:31:33.476 --> 00:31:37.022 they deserved respect for all that courage. 582 00:31:38.273 --> 00:31:41.234 They claim after they've lost that they were only reacting 583 00:31:41.276 --> 00:31:45.071 to the overreach of centralized federal power. 584 00:31:46.364 --> 00:31:50.493 And there's a kind of admiration for that still in our culture. 585 00:31:53.830 --> 00:31:57.375 (upbeat music) 586 00:32:05.008 --> 00:32:09.137 - James McGill, he settled this farm almost 200 587 00:32:09.179 --> 00:32:13.141 years ago, and I felt like I've followed in his footsteps. 588 00:32:13.183 --> 00:32:16.519 My wife raised the children. 589 00:32:16.561 --> 00:32:18.438 All I ever did was work. 590 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.440 Of course, now, federal government took my farm. 591 00:32:20.482 --> 00:32:21.649 So 592 00:32:22.067 --> 00:32:24.110 so I had it financed 593 00:32:24.152 --> 00:32:26.905 with federal government, farmers, home administration. 594 00:32:26.946 --> 00:32:28.782 They wouldn't redo my loans. 595 00:32:28.823 --> 00:32:30.784 During the war and reconstruction. 596 00:32:30.825 --> 00:32:32.786 People in the South lost everything. 597 00:32:32.827 --> 00:32:35.455 Well, I can empathize with them. 598 00:32:35.497 --> 00:32:38.541 It made me mad and I couldn't understand why they were mad. 599 00:32:38.583 --> 00:32:41.252 And they and they spent 150 years and them 600 00:32:41.294 --> 00:32:44.005 people are still mad in the south about it. 601 00:32:44.047 --> 00:32:47.634 It's wrong for the federal government to dictate 602 00:32:47.676 --> 00:32:50.720 to the states what they should or should not do. 603 00:32:50.762 --> 00:32:55.475 And ever since the war, no one's property has been secure. 604 00:32:55.517 --> 00:32:59.229 And there's a lot of talk of reparations for slaves. 605 00:32:59.270 --> 00:33:03.983 You know, my great great grandfather, nobody paid 606 00:33:04.025 --> 00:33:06.194 Abraham Lincoln, emancipated the slaves. 607 00:33:06.236 --> 00:33:08.113 He didn't get paid for it. 608 00:33:08.154 --> 00:33:10.407 The war to prevent southern 609 00:33:10.448 --> 00:33:14.828 independence changed our country for the worse. 610 00:33:15.412 --> 00:33:18.289 In my opinion. - And what do you think? 611 00:33:18.331 --> 00:33:20.458 Do you think the war changed the country for the worse? 612 00:33:20.500 --> 00:33:23.336 - I'm trying to process everything. 613 00:33:24.671 --> 00:33:27.215 I do understand 614 00:33:28.508 --> 00:33:32.303 parts of what my father's speaking on because I feel 615 00:33:32.345 --> 00:33:37.726 that way, that the government is too big and has too much power. 616 00:33:37.767 --> 00:33:39.019 It's an invasion. 617 00:33:39.060 --> 00:33:42.689 But how long would it take to free the slaves? 618 00:33:42.731 --> 00:33:44.649 How long would it have taken 619 00:33:44.691 --> 00:33:48.028 for them to realize that slavery is wrong? 620 00:33:48.069 --> 00:33:49.320 [Director] Do you think slavery left 621 00:33:49.362 --> 00:33:52.198 an imprint on the mindset of people in America? 622 00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.994 - Sure. It left an imprint, but 623 00:33:56.661 --> 00:33:58.872 I'm saying the war left more of an imprint. 624 00:33:58.913 --> 00:34:02.042 That's my personal opinion. [Director] For black and white? 625 00:34:02.083 --> 00:34:03.251 - Yes. 626 00:34:03.293 --> 00:34:04.961 [Director] So you feel like the war itself 627 00:34:05.003 --> 00:34:07.047 was a bigger aggression than slavery? 628 00:34:07.088 --> 00:34:08.298 - Yes. 629 00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:10.467 [Director] It feels like you're dismissing 630 00:34:10.508 --> 00:34:13.511 the experience of millions of enslaved people. 631 00:34:14.471 --> 00:34:18.016 It feels like you're not seeing what they 632 00:34:18.058 --> 00:34:23.355 experienced at the hands of the people who were enslaving them. 633 00:34:23.813 --> 00:34:25.899 I mean, how is treating people 634 00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:29.069 as property not a greater horror? 635 00:34:29.110 --> 00:34:31.279 - Well, my feeling was that it was legal. 636 00:34:31.321 --> 00:34:35.909 It was a settled way of or they had laws that they 637 00:34:35.950 --> 00:34:42.123 had to live up to and forced on them and treat them like 638 00:34:42.165 --> 00:34:46.628 civilly. I don't hate James McGill. 639 00:34:46.670 --> 00:34:49.756 I just want our schools and universities to stop 640 00:34:49.798 --> 00:34:53.218 teaching our children to hate our southern ancestors. 641 00:34:53.259 --> 00:34:55.220 They don't deserve that. 642 00:35:00.308 --> 00:35:03.311 (ominous music) 643 00:35:08.942 --> 00:35:11.319 [Director] Do you know what the Confederate flag looks like? 644 00:35:11.361 --> 00:35:14.656 [Student] Yes, it has a cross and it's red, white and blue 645 00:35:14.698 --> 00:35:17.158 with stars going through the cross. 646 00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:19.119 [Director] Where have you seen that flag? 647 00:35:19.160 --> 00:35:21.621 - I see it when I'm driving, 648 00:35:21.663 --> 00:35:25.333 when I'm traveling, I see at, where I live, 649 00:35:25.375 --> 00:35:28.294 I live in the countryside, and the countryside 650 00:35:28.336 --> 00:35:29.838 I travel to Greenwood and it's 651 00:35:29.879 --> 00:35:32.966 white people back there, there's no black people. 652 00:35:33.008 --> 00:35:34.467 And I see a lot of Confederate 653 00:35:34.509 --> 00:35:37.262 flags that hang out the houses to hang out the mailboxes. 654 00:35:37.303 --> 00:35:39.556 I see it on the back of people trucks. 655 00:35:39.597 --> 00:35:41.433 [Director] And what does it make you think? 656 00:35:43.018 --> 00:35:44.561 - Grow up. 657 00:35:46.062 --> 00:35:47.647 Basically. 658 00:35:47.689 --> 00:35:49.816 [Director] In class, you said you were a good public speaker. 659 00:35:49.858 --> 00:35:51.568 - Yes, I am. 660 00:35:51.609 --> 00:35:53.570 [Director] What makes you a good speaker? 661 00:35:53.611 --> 00:35:56.322 - My projection, my performance. 662 00:35:56.364 --> 00:35:59.284 When I speak, I capture your attention. 663 00:35:59.325 --> 00:36:01.286 I know that I capture attention. 664 00:36:01.327 --> 00:36:05.040 I do oratoricals. I've won first place in 665 00:36:05.749 --> 00:36:08.293 five, six oratoriclas. That's all of them I 666 00:36:08.335 --> 00:36:12.297 competed in and I won second place once. 667 00:36:13.256 --> 00:36:14.674 [Director] I hadn't noticed any white kids 668 00:36:14.716 --> 00:36:16.676 at the school, are there any white kids at this school? 669 00:36:16.718 --> 00:36:19.304 - No. [Director] Why is that? 670 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:23.350 - I would say, in my personal opinion, 671 00:36:23.391 --> 00:36:26.978 I don't know if this why, but I will simply say 672 00:36:27.020 --> 00:36:31.858 the fact of segregation like is, is how we are here, like. 673 00:36:31.900 --> 00:36:34.736 It just socially happened like this is the black kids school, 674 00:36:34.778 --> 00:36:37.697 Central Holmes is the white kids school, 675 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:40.283 that's just how the neighborhood, 676 00:36:40.325 --> 00:36:42.702 that's how the parents separated everything. 677 00:36:42.744 --> 00:36:45.955 [Director] Have you ever had a white friend? 678 00:36:45.997 --> 00:36:47.540 - No. 679 00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:52.504 No, I've never, I've never. 680 00:36:53.713 --> 00:36:56.049 Been around a white person long enough. I've never had 681 00:36:56.091 --> 00:37:01.388 a complete conversation to even become associates. 682 00:37:01.429 --> 00:37:02.639 [Director] Do you think that the civil 683 00:37:02.681 --> 00:37:04.265 war was relevant to your life? 684 00:37:04.307 --> 00:37:06.101 - I feel that it's relevant because 685 00:37:06.142 --> 00:37:09.688 your past, your history is your story. 686 00:37:10.438 --> 00:37:13.817 Whether or not you know or not, it's your story. 687 00:37:16.111 --> 00:37:18.571 (children chatter) 688 00:37:25.120 --> 00:37:27.914 (dramatic music) 689 00:37:38.425 --> 00:37:41.469 - These are the 209,145 African Americans 690 00:37:41.511 --> 00:37:44.097 in the union army, that fought in the Civil War. 691 00:37:44.139 --> 00:37:47.434 They served in every branch in the Army. 142 Color 692 00:37:47.475 --> 00:37:50.061 Infantry Regiments, 7 Color Calvary Regiments, 693 00:37:50.103 --> 00:37:53.523 13 Color Artillery Regiments, and it's color pioneer regiments. 694 00:37:53.565 --> 00:37:56.484 They looked at each as family because if you serving 695 00:37:56.526 --> 00:38:00.780 for three years, all you have is your comrades, 696 00:38:00.822 --> 00:38:02.115 (marching count) 697 00:38:02.157 --> 00:38:04.200 - your left, your left, right. 698 00:38:04.242 --> 00:38:07.120 Who's on your left. 699 00:38:07.162 --> 00:38:08.580 Your left, 700 00:38:09.414 --> 00:38:13.668 your left, your left, right. Your left, 701 00:38:15.086 --> 00:38:16.504 your left, 702 00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:20.884 your left, your left, your left, right. 703 00:38:22.427 --> 00:38:24.012 Company, halt. 704 00:38:24.054 --> 00:38:26.556 So this is the African-American Civil War Museum. 705 00:38:26.598 --> 00:38:27.932 The monument and museum 706 00:38:27.974 --> 00:38:31.102 were built to correct a great wrong in history. 707 00:38:31.144 --> 00:38:32.854 America has wrote a history about 708 00:38:32.896 --> 00:38:36.900 that whole conflict that did not include African-Americans 709 00:38:36.941 --> 00:38:39.361 and these African-American soldiers and their great role 710 00:38:39.402 --> 00:38:42.822 in ending that war to preserve the nation 711 00:38:42.864 --> 00:38:44.783 and enslavement here in the United States. 712 00:38:44.824 --> 00:38:46.659 The war started, but for two years, 713 00:38:46.701 --> 00:38:48.661 President Lincoln wouldn't let blacks join the army. 714 00:38:48.703 --> 00:38:51.623 Well, once he realized he couldn't win this war without us 715 00:38:51.664 --> 00:38:54.668 then the war starts to change in Lincoln's favor. 716 00:38:54.709 --> 00:38:58.254 150,000, they were enslaved, living in those southern states. 717 00:38:58.296 --> 00:38:59.631 They literally end up 718 00:38:59.673 --> 00:39:01.841 with uniforms on and rifles in their pockets. 719 00:39:01.883 --> 00:39:03.760 So if you're thinking to yourself, I live in a world 720 00:39:03.802 --> 00:39:05.512 that's out of control and there's nothing I can do 721 00:39:05.553 --> 00:39:08.098 about it. Well, there is something you can do about it and you can 722 00:39:08.139 --> 00:39:10.850 take lessons from these people whose stories we tell here 723 00:39:10.892 --> 00:39:14.604 in this museum. I think it's liberating. 724 00:39:17.565 --> 00:39:19.192 [Director] We're making this film about how 725 00:39:19.234 --> 00:39:20.860 we tell the story of the Civil War. 726 00:39:20.902 --> 00:39:23.029 And I think you guys just finished that unit, right? 727 00:39:23.071 --> 00:39:24.114 [Student] yeah. 728 00:39:24.155 --> 00:39:25.740 [Director] What did you think? 729 00:39:25.782 --> 00:39:27.784 [Student] You know, I feel like it's living in this country is 730 00:39:27.826 --> 00:39:29.828 like, oh, the civil war, you know about it. 731 00:39:29.869 --> 00:39:34.874 But when you start to learn about it, there's so many, like, 732 00:39:36.334 --> 00:39:39.212 intricate details of why things happened. 733 00:39:39.254 --> 00:39:43.091 And I think it's important that we learn about it. 734 00:39:43.133 --> 00:39:45.093 But the one thing that 735 00:39:45.135 --> 00:39:46.970 does, 736 00:39:47.012 --> 00:39:49.431 like, not concern me, but 737 00:39:50.432 --> 00:39:51.933 most people here have the same 738 00:39:51.975 --> 00:39:55.562 kinds of political views which, you know, it's great to be 739 00:39:55.603 --> 00:39:57.731 around people who think like you. 740 00:39:57.772 --> 00:40:02.318 But at the same time, there's no, like, real conversation. 741 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:03.820 There's no real dialog 742 00:40:03.862 --> 00:40:07.032 and understanding like people who have different views 743 00:40:07.073 --> 00:40:10.326 than you, which is, I think, how we can move forward. 744 00:40:10.368 --> 00:40:14.039 Um, I think that's important. - And in order for people 745 00:40:14.080 --> 00:40:16.666 to really get your perspective and understand where you're 746 00:40:16.708 --> 00:40:20.086 coming from, what's one thing they should know about you? 747 00:40:20.128 --> 00:40:21.546 - Right. 748 00:40:22.464 --> 00:40:24.132 I mean, 749 00:40:24.716 --> 00:40:26.593 the biggest thing for me is gender. 750 00:40:26.634 --> 00:40:32.182 I try to present as masculinely as I can, but, 751 00:40:32.849 --> 00:40:37.354 you know, people still sometimes 752 00:40:37.395 --> 00:40:41.900 take me for a girl and that's like the biggest thing that's 753 00:40:41.941 --> 00:40:45.028 kind of hard for me to deal with. 754 00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:54.662 Yeah, that's probably the big that's the biggest one. 755 00:40:54.704 --> 00:40:58.124 [Director] It's like you're not getting fully seen. 756 00:40:58.166 --> 00:40:59.834 - Right, yeah. 757 00:41:08.927 --> 00:41:10.804 [Dr. Blight] Reconstruction has been the most 758 00:41:10.845 --> 00:41:15.183 contested question in America's historical memory. 759 00:41:15.225 --> 00:41:17.018 Reconstruction is a period 760 00:41:17.060 --> 00:41:20.730 of time that begins immediately after the war, 761 00:41:20.772 --> 00:41:26.528 a 10 to 12 year era when America had to truly reinvent itself. 762 00:41:28.363 --> 00:41:30.115 Fourteenth Amendment puts equal 763 00:41:30.156 --> 00:41:34.119 protection of the law into the U.S. Constitution. 764 00:41:35.537 --> 00:41:39.958 And the right to vote for black men in the 15th Amendment was 765 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.711 a constitutional and legal revolution, 766 00:41:42.752 --> 00:41:45.547 and some black spokesmen by the 1890s and the turn 767 00:41:45.588 --> 00:41:51.094 of the 20th century would often refer to 1865 as the year zero 768 00:41:51.136 --> 00:41:55.223 of a new calendar, a new beginning to history itself. 769 00:42:00.353 --> 00:42:02.188 But you have to incorporate 770 00:42:02.230 --> 00:42:06.568 the white south into an American union, 771 00:42:06.609 --> 00:42:10.113 a society that had just lost approximately 772 00:42:10.155 --> 00:42:15.285 18 percent of its adult male population in war. 773 00:42:17.412 --> 00:42:21.249 How do you reunify those people 774 00:42:21.291 --> 00:42:26.254 at the emotional level with the side that is the victor? 775 00:42:34.012 --> 00:42:36.723 - We're having our monthly Civil War roundtable, 776 00:42:36.765 --> 00:42:39.059 we call ourselves the East Bridgewater Civil War 777 00:42:39.100 --> 00:42:43.146 Roundtable, named after a town. - We sent 300 men from this town. 778 00:42:43.188 --> 00:42:46.900 - I think it was four. - Closer to 400. 779 00:42:46.941 --> 00:42:49.778 - 50 of them died. The basis of our meeting tonight. 780 00:42:49.819 --> 00:42:51.613 We call it reconstruction. 781 00:42:51.654 --> 00:42:54.199 You know, what went right and what went wrong. 782 00:42:54.240 --> 00:42:55.700 All right. 783 00:42:55.742 --> 00:42:57.494 Holy mackerel. Hello. 784 00:42:57.535 --> 00:42:59.579 Hello. What a crowd. 785 00:42:59.621 --> 00:43:01.748 We're going to talk about reconstruction, 786 00:43:01.790 --> 00:43:07.921 the physical period of time from from 1865 to 1877. 787 00:43:07.962 --> 00:43:10.882 You know, in the school system, we came to reconstruction 788 00:43:10.924 --> 00:43:13.176 and the chapter ended on the Civil War. 789 00:43:13.218 --> 00:43:16.221 - How are you going to rebuild this part of the country 790 00:43:16.262 --> 00:43:20.433 with malice towards... as Lincoln's words. 791 00:43:20.475 --> 00:43:22.018 How are you going to do that? 792 00:43:22.060 --> 00:43:25.855 - No one on the civilian side on the Confederate presidency 793 00:43:25.897 --> 00:43:30.276 was ever forced to concede and repudiate what they believed. 794 00:43:30.318 --> 00:43:34.239 And we allowed a group of people that waged an armed insurrection 795 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:38.368 against their government to build statues to their heroes. 796 00:43:38.410 --> 00:43:40.245 So that has kept it alive. 797 00:43:40.286 --> 00:43:43.915 We have never solved the core problem, the civil war. 798 00:43:43.957 --> 00:43:46.042 And that's why reconstruction didn't have a chance. The north 799 00:43:46.084 --> 00:43:47.711 was fighting back and forth during 800 00:43:47.752 --> 00:43:49.004 the whole reconstruction period. 801 00:43:49.045 --> 00:43:50.714 And let's not forget the elephant in the middle 802 00:43:50.755 --> 00:43:55.969 of the room, north and south were racists, period. 803 00:43:56.011 --> 00:44:00.098 The black was not considered to be a human being. 804 00:44:01.182 --> 00:44:02.517 - How are ya? 805 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:03.518 [Director] Excuse me, I have a question. 806 00:44:03.560 --> 00:44:04.728 Have you ever had 807 00:44:04.769 --> 00:44:06.438 an African-American member in this group? 808 00:44:06.479 --> 00:44:07.897 Because it struck me 809 00:44:07.939 --> 00:44:10.900 in the conversation about race that everyone was white. 810 00:44:10.942 --> 00:44:13.194 - No, we haven't. - Have you looked at 811 00:44:13.236 --> 00:44:17.407 the demographic of east Bridgewater and the area? 812 00:44:19.409 --> 00:44:21.077 - Where in the 90s, 813 00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:24.664 which is well, which is an odd thing because we 814 00:44:24.706 --> 00:44:29.753 live, we border Brockton, which is predominantly 815 00:44:29.794 --> 00:44:33.173 minorities, which are really the majorities now. 816 00:44:33.214 --> 00:44:36.009 I mean, how do you reach out to say that they're welcome? 817 00:44:36.051 --> 00:44:37.510 Well, I mean, they're welcome, but how do you 818 00:44:37.552 --> 00:44:39.846 make them feel that they're welcome? 819 00:44:39.888 --> 00:44:42.766 I mean, here I think we'd make them feel welcomed. 820 00:44:42.807 --> 00:44:44.142 How do you how do you do that? 821 00:44:44.184 --> 00:44:47.103 I mean, yeah, that's a good question. 822 00:44:47.145 --> 00:44:48.688 I'll have to think about that. 823 00:44:48.730 --> 00:44:51.274 The same question is why we live right next to Brockton and we 824 00:44:51.316 --> 00:44:53.318 don't have a large population of blacks. 825 00:44:54.527 --> 00:44:57.364 - I live in the town of Kingston and there's not a large 826 00:44:57.405 --> 00:44:59.657 population of blacks in the town of Kingston. 827 00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:01.201 You know, 828 00:45:01.242 --> 00:45:03.203 the Silverlake Regional High School is the fourth or fifth 829 00:45:03.244 --> 00:45:08.041 largest diversified high school with, you know, 1500 kids in it. 830 00:45:08.083 --> 00:45:09.876 I mean, there are a few families. 831 00:45:09.918 --> 00:45:13.296 But why? Yet, you go into Brockton 832 00:45:13.338 --> 00:45:16.841 or you go into New Bedford or Fall River, the cities, 833 00:45:16.883 --> 00:45:19.886 you tend to find a larger minority community. 834 00:45:19.928 --> 00:45:21.638 Is it because those minorities 835 00:45:21.680 --> 00:45:24.891 feel more comfortable there? You know? 836 00:45:24.933 --> 00:45:25.934 I don't know. 837 00:45:25.975 --> 00:45:28.061 I don't have the answers. 838 00:45:41.866 --> 00:45:47.455 * Facing the rising sun * 839 00:45:47.497 --> 00:45:52.335 * of our new day begun * 840 00:45:52.377 --> 00:46:02.262 * let's us march on til victory is won * 841 00:46:02.595 --> 00:46:03.972 Woo! 842 00:46:04.014 --> 00:46:06.182 [Greg] At the end it says shadow beneath our hand 843 00:46:06.224 --> 00:46:09.602 may be forever stand, true to our God, 844 00:46:09.644 --> 00:46:12.981 true to our native land. 845 00:46:13.023 --> 00:46:15.233 See, these guys were tricky. By native land 846 00:46:15.275 --> 00:46:17.360 what were they talking about? [Student] Us. 847 00:46:17.402 --> 00:46:19.279 [Greg] Us, our land? 848 00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.823 Meaning what? What does us mean to you? 849 00:46:21.865 --> 00:46:23.742 What was reconstruction? 850 00:46:23.783 --> 00:46:28.121 When was it? After slavery. Yes. 851 00:46:28.163 --> 00:46:30.957 - After the Civil War. - After the Civil War. 852 00:46:30.999 --> 00:46:33.251 This was when black people tried to teach 853 00:46:33.293 --> 00:46:35.962 America how to have a real democracy during reconstruction, 854 00:46:36.004 --> 00:46:38.673 black people were able to vote in the South and they got 855 00:46:38.715 --> 00:46:41.801 in the state legislators and passed laws 856 00:46:41.843 --> 00:46:44.679 to say things like, everybody should go to school for free. 857 00:46:44.721 --> 00:46:45.889 And they say white people too? 858 00:46:45.930 --> 00:46:47.849 Yeah, white people, you poor white people. 859 00:46:47.891 --> 00:46:49.309 This man right here, 860 00:46:49.351 --> 00:46:51.394 John Mercer Langston, came out of slavery in Virginia. 861 00:46:51.436 --> 00:46:55.065 He came to D.C. as a congressman from Virginia. 862 00:46:55.106 --> 00:46:57.317 This man was born into slavery. 863 00:46:57.359 --> 00:47:00.320 You know, he's crazy. I got seen, no problem, I'll 864 00:47:00.362 --> 00:47:03.073 be back. You know, I mean, it's Congressman Langston now. 865 00:47:03.114 --> 00:47:04.949 That's why I love reconstruction. 866 00:47:04.991 --> 00:47:06.451 You had real heroes. 867 00:47:06.493 --> 00:47:09.329 Are we any different than these people were? 868 00:47:09.371 --> 00:47:11.164 No, we're not. You know the difference? 869 00:47:11.206 --> 00:47:12.999 We just don't remember. 870 00:47:13.041 --> 00:47:15.502 My name is Greg Carr and I'm 871 00:47:15.543 --> 00:47:17.462 an associate professor and chair of the Department 872 00:47:17.504 --> 00:47:20.423 of Afro-American Studies here at Howard University. 873 00:47:20.465 --> 00:47:22.717 [Director] And what connection do you have to the history, 874 00:47:22.759 --> 00:47:25.512 to the history of the civil war and reconstruction? 875 00:47:25.553 --> 00:47:26.888 [Greg] Well, 876 00:47:26.930 --> 00:47:29.432 in addition to the direct history, my ancestors have 877 00:47:29.474 --> 00:47:32.977 been brought here from North Carolina and Alabama. 878 00:47:33.019 --> 00:47:35.063 No civil war veterans 879 00:47:35.105 --> 00:47:38.858 in my direct family, but we were enslaved in Alabama. 880 00:47:38.900 --> 00:47:42.028 So obviously coming out of civil war, 881 00:47:42.070 --> 00:47:45.031 my family sharecroppers come in the areas 882 00:47:45.073 --> 00:47:48.702 of Jim Crow, Great Migration moving throughout the south. 883 00:47:48.743 --> 00:47:51.871 You know, I'm a living part of that stream of history. 884 00:47:51.913 --> 00:47:54.541 And as a professor here at Howard University 885 00:47:54.582 --> 00:47:56.835 and particularly in Africana studies, which is my field 886 00:47:56.876 --> 00:48:01.297 of study in the area I work in, devote a great part of my work 887 00:48:01.339 --> 00:48:03.508 to understanding the implications of the civil 888 00:48:03.550 --> 00:48:07.053 war and reconstruction in terms of contemporary American life. 889 00:48:07.095 --> 00:48:08.972 What's this right here? 890 00:48:09.014 --> 00:48:10.849 [Students] Deed of sale. 891 00:48:10.890 --> 00:48:12.142 [Greg] Deed of sale. 892 00:48:12.183 --> 00:48:14.227 These are reconstruction era documents. 893 00:48:14.269 --> 00:48:16.563 Most people in the country don't know anything about that. 894 00:48:16.604 --> 00:48:18.064 So you can say, oh, 895 00:48:18.106 --> 00:48:20.108 we saw the charter, we saw the deed of sale for the land. 896 00:48:20.150 --> 00:48:21.609 [Director] You know, 897 00:48:21.651 --> 00:48:24.237 you're the only teacher I filmed who's focused on the freed 898 00:48:24.279 --> 00:48:27.574 people's point of view when teaching reconstruction. 899 00:48:27.615 --> 00:48:29.159 How does teaching 900 00:48:29.200 --> 00:48:31.036 from that point of view make a difference for your students? 901 00:48:31.077 --> 00:48:32.746 [Greg] What I hope they will walk out 902 00:48:32.787 --> 00:48:37.917 with a sense of human purpose that they have a stake in. 903 00:48:37.959 --> 00:48:39.169 There's always the threat 904 00:48:39.210 --> 00:48:42.547 of forgetting in terms of national memory. 905 00:48:42.589 --> 00:48:44.758 When you start talking about a settler state like 906 00:48:44.799 --> 00:48:47.385 the United States that came out of a settler colony with many 907 00:48:47.427 --> 00:48:50.263 different people, there's almost a required 908 00:48:50.305 --> 00:48:53.391 forgetting of violence, of forgetting in order to force 909 00:48:53.433 --> 00:48:58.313 a type of unity of culture, the unity of national identity. 910 00:48:58.355 --> 00:48:59.439 So the work that remains to be 911 00:48:59.481 --> 00:49:02.609 done is to recognize our full history. 912 00:49:02.650 --> 00:49:05.195 That story will make you so proud of black people. 913 00:49:05.236 --> 00:49:07.072 Also, break your heart. 914 00:49:15.747 --> 00:49:18.416 (slow music) 915 00:49:37.977 --> 00:49:40.271 - My name is Brother Rogers, I work at the 916 00:49:40.313 --> 00:49:42.774 Mississippi Department of Archives and History. 917 00:49:42.816 --> 00:49:44.275 I created a website 918 00:49:44.317 --> 00:49:46.861 with a picture of every historical marker in the state. 919 00:49:46.903 --> 00:49:48.029 [Director] Have you taken a 920 00:49:48.071 --> 00:49:49.489 picture of the Clinton riots marker? 921 00:49:49.531 --> 00:49:51.157 [Rogers] I have taken a picture of that marker. 922 00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:54.202 I know exactly where it is near the railroad track 923 00:49:54.244 --> 00:49:55.537 in Clinton. [Director] That's right. 924 00:49:55.578 --> 00:49:56.830 And what do you think? 925 00:49:56.871 --> 00:49:58.039 Tell me what you're, tell me 926 00:49:58.081 --> 00:49:59.749 what do you know about that marker? 927 00:49:59.791 --> 00:50:01.584 - Well, I think that the Clinton 928 00:50:01.626 --> 00:50:05.338 riot marker is particularly important because there was 929 00:50:05.380 --> 00:50:09.467 a riot during reconstruction in the town of Clinton. 930 00:50:09.509 --> 00:50:13.596 That was not in the history books that I read growing up 931 00:50:13.638 --> 00:50:16.641 studying Mississippi history and the local public schools. 932 00:50:16.683 --> 00:50:20.812 Reconstruction in America, not just in Mississippi, 933 00:50:20.854 --> 00:50:25.191 is one of the most overlooked and underappreciated historical 934 00:50:25.233 --> 00:50:27.193 eras. And the people who wrote about it 935 00:50:27.235 --> 00:50:31.406 afterwards, North and South wrote about it mainly 936 00:50:31.448 --> 00:50:34.534 from a white supremacy point of view, whether they were in 937 00:50:34.576 --> 00:50:37.579 Ohio and Michigan or Alabama or Mississippi. 938 00:50:37.620 --> 00:50:40.457 There was lots of violence throughout America, 939 00:50:40.498 --> 00:50:43.376 during reconstruction against African-Americans. 940 00:50:43.418 --> 00:50:46.963 It's a terrible time in our history from that perspective. 941 00:50:47.005 --> 00:50:48.173 It's a great time again 942 00:50:48.214 --> 00:50:50.884 of experimentation with providing the rights 943 00:50:50.925 --> 00:50:54.471 of citizenship and political equality to African-Americans. 944 00:50:54.512 --> 00:50:55.805 Unfortunately, through the lens 945 00:50:55.847 --> 00:50:58.224 of white supremacy, that was too much for a lot 946 00:50:58.266 --> 00:51:00.310 of white people to take during that time. 947 00:51:00.352 --> 00:51:02.562 [Director] Are there any other markers 948 00:51:02.604 --> 00:51:04.981 in Mississippi that acknowledge 949 00:51:05.023 --> 00:51:06.900 white violence against African-Americans? 950 00:51:06.941 --> 00:51:10.570 - The only marker of which I am aware that exist, 951 00:51:10.612 --> 00:51:15.283 that depicts and talks about white violence against black 952 00:51:15.325 --> 00:51:19.329 people during reconstruction is the Clinton riot marker. 953 00:51:19.371 --> 00:51:22.123 [Director] In Mississippi? - In Mississippi. 954 00:51:23.458 --> 00:51:25.043 - My name is Missy Jones. 955 00:51:25.085 --> 00:51:26.336 My title is a Visiting 956 00:51:26.378 --> 00:51:29.464 Instructor of History at Mississippi College. 957 00:51:29.506 --> 00:51:31.675 [Director] How long have you been working on the Clinton riot? 958 00:51:31.966 --> 00:51:34.177 - Almost 15 years now 959 00:51:34.219 --> 00:51:36.596 if I think back. 960 00:51:37.806 --> 00:51:39.265 [Director] What is this? 961 00:51:39.307 --> 00:51:41.559 - This is Johnson Milling Company, 962 00:51:41.601 --> 00:51:47.273 it's been here for ages, but right behind it is 963 00:51:47.315 --> 00:51:50.151 the location of the old train depot. 964 00:51:50.193 --> 00:51:51.778 And the thought was that we 965 00:51:51.820 --> 00:51:55.782 would put the marker for the Clinton riot here 966 00:51:55.824 --> 00:51:59.494 because of the importance of the train depot. 967 00:52:04.416 --> 00:52:05.834 The Clinton riots began 968 00:52:05.875 --> 00:52:11.339 on September 4th, 1875, and the diorama behind me 969 00:52:11.381 --> 00:52:16.344 tells a version of those events. The original train depot is 970 00:52:16.386 --> 00:52:20.348 where white paramilitary units flocked into Clinton. 971 00:52:20.390 --> 00:52:22.809 There was a political rally 972 00:52:22.851 --> 00:52:26.479 and it was one of the first times that African-Americans had 973 00:52:26.521 --> 00:52:29.858 gotten together to really listen to political candidates. 974 00:52:29.899 --> 00:52:32.902 And it was organized by the Republican Party. 975 00:52:32.944 --> 00:52:34.654 But there was also a group 976 00:52:34.696 --> 00:52:38.533 of white Democrats who were sent there to disrupt things. 977 00:52:38.575 --> 00:52:41.161 Shots rang out, African-American 978 00:52:41.202 --> 00:52:43.872 families began to flee the scene. 979 00:52:43.913 --> 00:52:46.207 Even one mother left her child 980 00:52:46.249 --> 00:52:48.835 in the hollow of a tree just for protection. 981 00:52:48.877 --> 00:52:52.630 And then over the course of the next several days, 982 00:52:52.672 --> 00:52:56.009 white liner's began to flood into Clinton and then 983 00:52:56.051 --> 00:52:59.929 systematically round up those who organized the rally and then 984 00:52:59.971 --> 00:53:03.683 kill them, sometimes in front of their own family members. 985 00:53:03.725 --> 00:53:05.185 [Director] So this is a group of white 986 00:53:05.226 --> 00:53:08.188 Democrats killing the black Republicans? 987 00:53:08.229 --> 00:53:10.607 [Missy] Correct. It was the plan of the white 988 00:53:10.648 --> 00:53:14.694 Democrats to keep African-Americans from voting. 989 00:53:19.532 --> 00:53:22.952 The violence served as a pretext for the return of white rule 990 00:53:22.994 --> 00:53:26.539 and the end of reconstruction in Mississippi. 991 00:53:26.581 --> 00:53:28.917 [Director] Do you feel like people 992 00:53:28.958 --> 00:53:30.877 know that this marker exists? 993 00:53:30.919 --> 00:53:32.128 - No, I don't. 994 00:53:32.170 --> 00:53:35.757 Just given where it is behind this old mill, 995 00:53:35.799 --> 00:53:40.387 I feel like it has the potential to look hidden. 996 00:53:40.428 --> 00:53:43.556 And that was my fear with placing it here. 997 00:53:43.598 --> 00:53:46.601 I would definitely prefer it to be in a more prominent 998 00:53:46.643 --> 00:53:52.273 location because this event is by far the most important event 999 00:53:52.315 --> 00:53:54.776 that ever took place in the city. 1000 00:53:55.902 --> 00:54:01.032 The Clinton riot has always been one of these contested events. 1001 00:54:02.617 --> 00:54:05.036 For years and years and years, it's been told 1002 00:54:05.078 --> 00:54:07.956 as if it was caused by African-Americans. That they 1003 00:54:07.997 --> 00:54:11.626 were going to take back the city, accost the women. 1004 00:54:14.796 --> 00:54:17.507 For essentially one hundred and forty years, 1005 00:54:17.549 --> 00:54:21.386 the history was told incorrectly and the violence was blamed 1006 00:54:21.428 --> 00:54:24.472 on the black members of the Clinton community. 1007 00:54:28.476 --> 00:54:30.520 - Hi, my name is James Robinson. 1008 00:54:30.562 --> 00:54:32.939 I'm from here in Clinton. 1009 00:54:32.981 --> 00:54:36.109 Lifetime residence, except for a few years. 1010 00:54:36.151 --> 00:54:37.235 - I'm Deborah. 1011 00:54:37.277 --> 00:54:39.112 James is my cousin. 1012 00:54:39.154 --> 00:54:42.949 - This picture here, Sara Lee, my grandmother's grandmother. 1013 00:54:42.991 --> 00:54:45.952 When she was caught in the proximity of the 1014 00:54:45.994 --> 00:54:49.122 Clinton riot in order to save her child. 1015 00:54:49.164 --> 00:54:51.666 She hid the child in a tree. 1016 00:54:51.708 --> 00:54:54.627 And then after the skirmish was over, 1017 00:54:54.669 --> 00:54:56.880 then she went back and and got the child. 1018 00:54:57.881 --> 00:54:59.132 As the article says, 1019 00:54:59.174 --> 00:55:03.803 old Clinton history told from Tales by Ex Slave. 1020 00:55:03.845 --> 00:55:07.432 This was published in the newspaper in 1961. 1021 00:55:07.474 --> 00:55:10.310 - As far as the black citizens in Clinton, 1022 00:55:10.352 --> 00:55:11.811 you don't hear a lot about our history. 1023 00:55:11.853 --> 00:55:15.982 And a lot of times I think our elders have tended to just 1024 00:55:16.024 --> 00:55:18.610 discuss things among themselves as opposed 1025 00:55:18.651 --> 00:55:20.445 to bringing it to the forefront. 1026 00:55:20.487 --> 00:55:24.366 Because it can stir up a lot of emotions. 1027 00:55:25.200 --> 00:55:26.409 [Director] And what's the result 1028 00:55:26.451 --> 00:55:27.744 of stirring up emotions? 1029 00:55:27.786 --> 00:55:29.871 - You get a lot of good and you get some bad. 1030 00:55:31.247 --> 00:55:32.665 [Director] What's the bad? 1031 00:55:32.707 --> 00:55:33.833 - The fact that somebody could 1032 00:55:33.875 --> 00:55:35.919 vandalize if you put up anything. 1033 00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:38.505 - I just hope that that doesn't happen in Clinton. 1034 00:55:38.546 --> 00:55:41.216 There's still a lot of racist attitudes. 1035 00:55:41.257 --> 00:55:44.761 - There are some that and I'm thinking about Missy. 1036 00:55:44.803 --> 00:55:48.181 When I first met Missy, she said the first word 1037 00:55:48.223 --> 00:55:49.891 that came out of her mouth was nigger. 1038 00:55:50.767 --> 00:55:52.268 And her parents were so proud 1039 00:55:52.310 --> 00:55:56.690 of her when she said that word because that meant that you 1040 00:55:56.731 --> 00:55:59.275 knew you were superior to somebody else. 1041 00:56:00.068 --> 00:56:03.113 [Director] You've been so dedicated for so long. 1042 00:56:03.154 --> 00:56:08.952 You've dedicated so much care and time and effort to this. 1043 00:56:10.704 --> 00:56:12.497 Why do you care about this? 1044 00:56:18.628 --> 00:56:20.380 - I'm going to get emotional, 1045 00:56:20.422 --> 00:56:25.468 but I grew up in a family in Mississippi. 1046 00:56:25.510 --> 00:56:29.305 My dad was from New York, my mom's family was from 1047 00:56:29.347 --> 00:56:32.100 South Mississippi. 90 percent white, 1048 00:56:32.142 --> 00:56:35.895 10 percent black, still segregated in the ways 1049 00:56:35.937 --> 00:56:38.732 in which people in the communities live. 1050 00:56:40.233 --> 00:56:41.693 But I was raised in a racist 1051 00:56:41.735 --> 00:56:45.905 family, racist community at the time in which I grew up. 1052 00:56:45.947 --> 00:56:53.204 Things have changed in a good bit now, but for me, I think 1053 00:56:53.246 --> 00:56:55.248 they want to repeat that. 1054 00:56:55.290 --> 00:56:59.669 I feel responsibility with a profession that I've 1055 00:56:59.711 --> 00:57:03.798 chosen to tell things accurately and to not 1056 00:57:05.508 --> 00:57:07.886 repeat generational 1057 00:57:08.970 --> 00:57:09.971 umm 1058 00:57:11.973 --> 00:57:13.433 incorrectness 1059 00:57:14.309 --> 00:57:17.687 with my own family. I want to do something different. 1060 00:57:24.652 --> 00:57:26.321 [Student] Why are you passionate about this project? 1061 00:57:26.363 --> 00:57:30.450 Just like what drives you with making this documentary? 1062 00:57:30.492 --> 00:57:32.452 - You know, I didn't start as passionate. 1063 00:57:32.494 --> 00:57:35.080 I started as curious. - Yeah. 1064 00:57:35.121 --> 00:57:36.790 - And I had this sense that there was something 1065 00:57:36.831 --> 00:57:39.542 missing in the story that I had been taught. 1066 00:57:39.584 --> 00:57:40.960 And it's only through 1067 00:57:41.002 --> 00:57:43.963 the making of this film that I've really come to see 1068 00:57:44.005 --> 00:57:46.675 that that story was totally white. 1069 00:57:46.716 --> 00:57:48.802 I used to think that white supremacy means a bunch 1070 00:57:48.843 --> 00:57:51.805 of guys in white robes, but it really means not even 1071 00:57:51.846 --> 00:57:54.808 recognizing that we're only telling white stories. 1072 00:58:06.528 --> 00:58:10.532 (southern instrumental music) 1073 00:58:32.846 --> 00:58:34.848 [Dr. Blight] During the reconstruction era, 1074 00:58:34.889 --> 00:58:36.933 there's fear all over the place. 1075 00:58:40.145 --> 00:58:42.188 White fear of those black 1076 00:58:42.230 --> 00:58:47.360 majority populations, if they really vote, was colossal. 1077 00:58:47.402 --> 00:58:49.571 So many white Southerners saw 1078 00:58:49.612 --> 00:58:52.323 this idea of black people serving on juries, 1079 00:58:52.365 --> 00:58:57.287 of black people owning land as an intolerable revolution. 1080 00:59:01.916 --> 00:59:04.711 And it necessitated a counter-revolution, 1081 00:59:04.753 --> 00:59:07.672 even if it necessitated the use of terror as violence. 1082 00:59:12.677 --> 00:59:14.554 A lost cause tradition was 1083 00:59:14.596 --> 00:59:17.307 a response to that tremendous fear. 1084 00:59:18.350 --> 00:59:20.060 We like to go to bed at night 1085 00:59:20.101 --> 00:59:23.480 believing our society is in social order. 1086 00:59:24.356 --> 00:59:26.733 I don't have to worry about my child tomorrow being 1087 00:59:26.775 --> 00:59:32.572 confronted by totally unusual and repugnant ideas or 1088 00:59:32.614 --> 00:59:34.699 totally unusual and repugnant people. 1089 00:59:35.575 --> 00:59:39.829 I'm safe by the history I know. 1090 00:59:40.789 --> 00:59:42.999 So the lost cause tradition 1091 00:59:43.041 --> 00:59:46.169 that Southerners developed, this story 1092 00:59:46.211 --> 00:59:49.756 for their explanation of their defeat became ultimately 1093 00:59:49.798 --> 00:59:53.426 a victory narrative. Victory over reconstruction. 1094 00:59:53.468 --> 00:59:57.222 And they crushed the very idea of slavery as the central 1095 00:59:57.263 --> 01:00:00.392 cause and the very idea of emancipation of four 1096 01:00:00.433 --> 01:00:04.521 million slaves as the central result of the civil war. 1097 01:00:04.562 --> 01:00:11.027 You begin to see wide scale, even official efforts to crush 1098 01:00:11.069 --> 01:00:13.613 what we might call black memory. 1099 01:00:13.655 --> 01:00:15.865 - If we throw away our 1100 01:00:15.907 --> 01:00:20.161 Confederate flag, we throw away the history 1101 01:00:20.203 --> 01:00:25.000 of South Carolina and of the United States. 1102 01:00:29.754 --> 01:00:32.507 - We are true Southerners, I guess. 1103 01:00:32.924 --> 01:00:35.176 To me it's a flag for everybody, 1104 01:00:35.218 --> 01:00:37.470 black and white, representing our heritage. 1105 01:00:37.804 --> 01:00:40.223 Can understand to some degree 1106 01:00:40.265 --> 01:00:42.809 how they would have been upset years ago. 1107 01:00:42.851 --> 01:00:44.853 That's been one hundred and thirty years ago now. 1108 01:00:44.894 --> 01:00:46.688 To me, it's our flag. 1109 01:00:47.772 --> 01:00:51.317 (crowd chanting) 1110 01:01:11.504 --> 01:01:13.089 - White only, no blacks! 1111 01:01:13.465 --> 01:01:15.175 Send them home! 1112 01:01:18.094 --> 01:01:20.263 [News Reporter] Breaking news, a horrific scene 1113 01:01:20.305 --> 01:01:23.350 in Charlottesville, Virginia. A white nationalist rally 1114 01:01:23.391 --> 01:01:27.020 that descended into deadly violence and chaos. 1115 01:01:27.062 --> 01:01:28.688 - Since the city voted to remove the 1116 01:01:28.730 --> 01:01:29.939 Robert E. Lee statue, 1117 01:01:29.981 --> 01:01:33.943 there have been protests, and now violence. 1118 01:01:35.695 --> 01:01:37.530 [Director] Tell me your name. Who are you? 1119 01:01:37.572 --> 01:01:40.992 - I'm Stephanie Rolph and I'm an assistant professor 1120 01:01:41.034 --> 01:01:44.371 of history at Millsaps College in Jackson, Mississippi. 1121 01:01:44.412 --> 01:01:45.872 The images that we're seeing 1122 01:01:45.914 --> 01:01:48.875 on our computers and on our phones and on television, 1123 01:01:48.917 --> 01:01:51.586 you can't divorce this from the need to return 1124 01:01:51.628 --> 01:01:53.380 to some sort of innocent past. 1125 01:01:53.421 --> 01:01:54.422 [Director] Like the old South? 1126 01:01:54.464 --> 01:01:55.507 - Yes. 1127 01:01:55.548 --> 01:01:57.509 [Director] What is the old South? 1128 01:01:57.550 --> 01:01:58.885 - After the Civil War? 1129 01:01:58.927 --> 01:02:04.766 The old South myth is this mythologized place of 1130 01:02:05.767 --> 01:02:08.353 big plantation houses 1131 01:02:08.395 --> 01:02:13.066 with Corinthian columns and mint juleps and hoop skirts 1132 01:02:13.108 --> 01:02:16.152 and Southern gentleman and happy slaves. 1133 01:02:16.194 --> 01:02:18.196 Everyone is well taken care of. 1134 01:02:18.238 --> 01:02:21.199 Some people are owned by other people, but everyone is well 1135 01:02:21.241 --> 01:02:24.744 fed, well clothed, loved and appreciated. 1136 01:02:24.786 --> 01:02:26.162 And that is not-- 1137 01:02:26.204 --> 01:02:28.248 this is why something like this would appeal to white 1138 01:02:28.289 --> 01:02:30.125 northerners, because that's not 1139 01:02:30.166 --> 01:02:32.669 the environment that they lived in. 1140 01:02:32.711 --> 01:02:34.421 [Director] It's really a story about the 1141 01:02:34.462 --> 01:02:36.089 merits of white supremacy. 1142 01:02:36.131 --> 01:02:37.507 You know, I filmed with another 1143 01:02:37.549 --> 01:02:39.634 historian who said that it was really white supremacy 1144 01:02:39.676 --> 01:02:43.096 that helped the north and the south reunify after the war. 1145 01:02:43.138 --> 01:02:44.973 Do you think that's true? 1146 01:02:45.015 --> 01:02:48.852 - I fully believe that when we're talking, 1147 01:02:48.893 --> 01:02:51.229 even across the spectrum from the coming of the civil 1148 01:02:51.271 --> 01:02:53.982 war to the prosecution of it and the aftermath, 1149 01:02:54.024 --> 01:02:56.901 I think it's a much more productive approach 1150 01:02:56.943 --> 01:03:00.363 to describe and understand white supremacy 1151 01:03:00.405 --> 01:03:03.783 than it is to even talk about slavery. 1152 01:03:03.825 --> 01:03:07.203 Slavery doesn't survive, but white supremacy does. 1153 01:03:11.082 --> 01:03:14.919 The war ends, reconciliation has been 1154 01:03:14.961 --> 01:03:19.674 achieved, what happens unexpectedly is 1155 01:03:19.716 --> 01:03:24.971 that in that reconciliation, the nation itself embraces 1156 01:03:25.013 --> 01:03:29.100 the Confederacy and the memory of the Confederacy. 1157 01:03:29.142 --> 01:03:31.811 This is why by the time you get to the 1930's, 1158 01:03:31.853 --> 01:03:33.938 people from all over the country are coming 1159 01:03:33.980 --> 01:03:35.982 to places like Natchez, Mississippi, 1160 01:03:36.024 --> 01:03:39.611 to tour antebellum homes and to see women in 1161 01:03:39.652 --> 01:03:43.948 hoop skirts and people dressed up as enslaved persons. 1162 01:03:43.990 --> 01:03:46.534 This is a vacation for them. 1163 01:03:46.576 --> 01:03:51.206 Can you think of a cultural footprint of this today? 1164 01:03:52.040 --> 01:03:55.168 Where the South gets sort of fetishized? 1165 01:03:55.210 --> 01:03:58.254 - Grades second through fifth, like we used to go almost 1166 01:03:58.296 --> 01:04:00.924 every year to the Destrehan Plantation. 1167 01:04:00.965 --> 01:04:05.220 - And what does that tour include? 1168 01:04:06.429 --> 01:04:08.348 - It included tours of the plantation. 1169 01:04:08.390 --> 01:04:11.935 They also had a little show put on, people dressed up 1170 01:04:11.976 --> 01:04:15.397 and stuff, and they sang songs, played music. 1171 01:04:17.565 --> 01:04:19.776 It was like a, it's almost like a little party. 1172 01:04:20.610 --> 01:04:23.947 - Are the tours in any way engaging enslavement? 1173 01:04:23.988 --> 01:04:26.032 - They don't really talk about the slavery part. 1174 01:04:26.074 --> 01:04:28.910 You might have a good time because, I used to look 1175 01:04:28.952 --> 01:04:30.537 forward to going to the plantation. 1176 01:04:30.578 --> 01:04:32.122 It was a big deal. 1177 01:04:32.163 --> 01:04:33.623 - I mean, can we even think 1178 01:04:33.665 --> 01:04:38.586 about these plantations as spaces of violence? 1179 01:04:39.796 --> 01:04:43.299 When we think about things like Confederate monuments or 1180 01:04:43.341 --> 01:04:46.386 symbols and flags, all of these remembrances 1181 01:04:46.428 --> 01:04:50.890 on white visions, those are renewals of white supremacy. 1182 01:04:50.932 --> 01:04:52.517 And in my mind, 1183 01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:55.854 keeping that Confederate battle flag in the top left 1184 01:04:55.895 --> 01:04:58.106 corner of Mississippi State flag, 1185 01:05:00.108 --> 01:05:03.028 is a way to keep that narrative alive. 1186 01:05:03.069 --> 01:05:04.404 And it's threatening because 1187 01:05:04.446 --> 01:05:07.574 if we lose it, what happens to our memory? 1188 01:05:08.158 --> 01:05:12.120 (quiet thoughtful music) 1189 01:05:17.625 --> 01:05:20.253 - My name is William Shirley. 1190 01:05:21.129 --> 01:05:22.797 I serve in the Mississippi House of Representatives 1191 01:05:22.839 --> 01:05:27.552 for District 84, about 16,000 people in the whole county. 1192 01:05:27.594 --> 01:05:29.095 Everybody knows everybody. 1193 01:05:29.137 --> 01:05:31.348 You get a speeding ticket, everybody knows. 1194 01:05:31.389 --> 01:05:34.059 I'm not here to argue the design of the flag. 1195 01:05:34.100 --> 01:05:36.936 That is not my intent. 1196 01:05:36.978 --> 01:05:39.314 Some universities took the flag down. 1197 01:05:39.939 --> 01:05:41.399 If you're receiving state 1198 01:05:41.441 --> 01:05:44.152 dollars and you're a public university, then you should 1199 01:05:44.194 --> 01:05:46.946 display whatever that symbol is. 1200 01:05:46.988 --> 01:05:48.323 [Director] And do you think this is 1201 01:05:48.365 --> 01:05:50.450 an issue that matters to the people in your district? 1202 01:05:50.992 --> 01:05:53.370 - Yes, ma'am. - Why? 1203 01:05:53.411 --> 01:05:56.664 - Well, I just think it's a heritage, it's a history. 1204 01:05:56.706 --> 01:06:01.711 There's a big movement to remove Confederate history. 1205 01:06:01.753 --> 01:06:04.005 Well, it's part of history. 1206 01:06:04.047 --> 01:06:07.634 You know, where and when is enough? 1207 01:06:07.676 --> 01:06:09.135 [Director] Do you feel like 1208 01:06:09.177 --> 01:06:11.054 slavery was something that was in the past? 1209 01:06:11.096 --> 01:06:12.722 Let's move on. 1210 01:06:12.764 --> 01:06:16.184 Or do you feel like slavery still has an effect today? 1211 01:06:17.477 --> 01:06:21.147 - It's over and it is part of history, 1212 01:06:21.189 --> 01:06:22.982 it's part of the past. I don't know of a 1213 01:06:23.024 --> 01:06:27.070 person that owns a slave or has been a slave. 1214 01:06:27.904 --> 01:06:29.364 To this day. 1215 01:06:30.031 --> 01:06:31.241 I think we're going to make it 1216 01:06:31.282 --> 01:06:34.244 a major issue as long as we keep rubbing it 1217 01:06:34.285 --> 01:06:38.164 in from the standpoint of the minority saying, well, 1218 01:06:38.206 --> 01:06:41.167 we were slaves and mistreated. I understand that. 1219 01:06:41.209 --> 01:06:43.378 What the hell do you want me to do about it? 1220 01:06:43.420 --> 01:06:44.504 I'm sorry. 1221 01:06:44.546 --> 01:06:46.631 I wasn't there. I'm 50 years old. 1222 01:06:46.673 --> 01:06:48.049 I wasn't there. 1223 01:06:48.091 --> 01:06:49.509 [Director] And what do you say to historically black 1224 01:06:49.551 --> 01:06:52.012 universities that say, we're not going to fly this flag 1225 01:06:52.053 --> 01:06:54.014 because it's a symbol of slavery? 1226 01:06:54.055 --> 01:06:55.640 Do you think about their point of view? 1227 01:06:56.766 --> 01:06:59.602 - It is. It's a state flag of Mississippi. 1228 01:07:01.730 --> 01:07:04.107 [Director] But if they say it actually hurts us, 1229 01:07:04.149 --> 01:07:05.525 it deeply offends us, 1230 01:07:05.567 --> 01:07:08.111 it represents something that gives us pain. 1231 01:07:08.153 --> 01:07:09.404 What do you say to that? 1232 01:07:14.617 --> 01:07:18.538 - I don't see the pain in in the symbol. 1233 01:07:22.167 --> 01:07:25.587 (chanting and sirens) 1234 01:07:29.257 --> 01:07:31.051 - New Orleans is just the latest city 1235 01:07:31.092 --> 01:07:33.219 to start taking down historical, 1236 01:07:33.261 --> 01:07:35.972 but controversial monuments that many say 1237 01:07:36.014 --> 01:07:38.141 celebrates slavery and the Confederacy. 1238 01:07:38.183 --> 01:07:39.893 - White supremacy! - Must go! 1239 01:07:39.934 --> 01:07:41.561 - When? - Now! 1240 01:07:41.603 --> 01:07:42.729 - When? - Now! 1241 01:07:42.771 --> 01:07:44.439 - All right! All right! 1242 01:07:44.481 --> 01:07:46.649 We're here to celebrate the taking down 1243 01:07:46.691 --> 01:07:49.986 of the Jefferson Davis statue here in New Orleans Center. 1244 01:07:50.612 --> 01:07:55.367 These were all Jim Crow era statues meant to emphasize 1245 01:07:55.408 --> 01:07:57.369 that white people were in control. 1246 01:07:57.410 --> 01:07:58.787 [Director] Is there any value-- 1247 01:07:58.828 --> 01:08:01.873 - There is no value in keeping those statues. 1248 01:08:02.332 --> 01:08:03.875 There is value in remembering 1249 01:08:03.917 --> 01:08:05.710 what these statues were put up for. 1250 01:08:05.752 --> 01:08:07.170 (people yelling) 1251 01:08:07.212 --> 01:08:09.422 - What do you say to the people across the street 1252 01:08:09.464 --> 01:08:10.757 who are marching with flags-- 1253 01:08:10.799 --> 01:08:12.092 - I don't say nothing 1254 01:08:12.133 --> 01:08:13.635 to the people across the street who are marching. 1255 01:08:13.677 --> 01:08:16.262 They are not on my radar. They are unredeemable 1256 01:08:16.304 --> 01:08:17.681 as far as I know. 1257 01:08:17.722 --> 01:08:19.974 - We pray, oh Lord, that those who are attacking 1258 01:08:20.016 --> 01:08:22.602 our heritage may repent of their sins. 1259 01:08:22.644 --> 01:08:24.145 We pray, oh Lord, 1260 01:08:24.187 --> 01:08:26.648 that the truth of history would triumph. 1261 01:08:27.691 --> 01:08:29.484 [Director] I feel like the country never 1262 01:08:29.526 --> 01:08:31.194 really reunified after the war 1263 01:08:31.236 --> 01:08:33.947 in a way that included all of its citizens, right? 1264 01:08:33.988 --> 01:08:35.615 Like maybe taking down these 1265 01:08:35.657 --> 01:08:38.368 statues now could help us reunify. 1266 01:08:38.410 --> 01:08:40.286 - But don't try to take away 1267 01:08:40.328 --> 01:08:42.122 history just because you don't agree with it. 1268 01:08:42.163 --> 01:08:43.832 And if you really study history, 1269 01:08:43.873 --> 01:08:46.751 you'll see there's more... It was more than just slavery. 1270 01:08:46.793 --> 01:08:48.294 There was taxation issues. 1271 01:08:48.336 --> 01:08:50.338 [Director] Hold on. Is he putting on a-- 1272 01:08:51.339 --> 01:08:52.966 a bulletproof vest? 1273 01:08:53.008 --> 01:08:54.384 - Probably. - Why? 1274 01:08:54.426 --> 01:08:56.052 - Because they were firing 1275 01:08:56.094 --> 01:08:58.847 paintball at these guys the other night. 1276 01:08:59.973 --> 01:09:01.766 Sounds harmless, 1277 01:09:01.808 --> 01:09:04.853 but who's to say that they don't try something more? 1278 01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:06.980 A lot of these people from out of town. 1279 01:09:07.022 --> 01:09:08.690 - These are visitors from out of town 1280 01:09:09.858 --> 01:09:12.610 who are Confederate supporters, and they come here 1281 01:09:12.652 --> 01:09:15.238 to occupy a city for a couple of weeks and stand their 1282 01:09:15.280 --> 01:09:17.532 ground and all that good stuff. 1283 01:09:17.574 --> 01:09:19.159 [Director] But isn't the goal to have 1284 01:09:19.200 --> 01:09:20.410 more people feel represented? 1285 01:09:20.452 --> 01:09:22.829 I mean, don't we need to listen to each other? 1286 01:09:22.871 --> 01:09:25.707 They said the statue's a source of Southern pride. 1287 01:09:25.749 --> 01:09:28.501 - Fuck the south. Fuck Southern pride. 1288 01:09:28.543 --> 01:09:29.544 Umm 1289 01:09:30.879 --> 01:09:32.213 The source of all of this tension and anger comes 1290 01:09:32.255 --> 01:09:35.467 from the erasure of African-Americans, history, 1291 01:09:35.508 --> 01:09:38.178 bloodlines, culture, families for hundreds of years 1292 01:09:38.219 --> 01:09:40.138 by way of this thing that they're upholding. 1293 01:09:40.180 --> 01:09:42.349 Ok, so if you can't balance 1294 01:09:42.390 --> 01:09:45.018 that in your mind, then I can't do anything 1295 01:09:45.060 --> 01:09:46.936 for your lack of an IQ or common sense. 1296 01:09:46.978 --> 01:09:47.854 I'm sorry. 1297 01:09:47.896 --> 01:09:48.897 - It's not about race. 1298 01:09:48.938 --> 01:09:50.398 This has never been about race. 1299 01:09:50.440 --> 01:09:52.567 I feel like we're having our history 1300 01:09:53.234 --> 01:09:54.611 stolen from us. 1301 01:09:54.652 --> 01:09:56.112 This was our only Confederate president. 1302 01:09:56.154 --> 01:09:57.197 He died here. 1303 01:09:57.238 --> 01:09:58.365 - You don't need to have that in 1304 01:09:58.406 --> 01:09:59.783 our diverse neighborhood. 1305 01:09:59.824 --> 01:10:03.036 - How is a inanimate object like a symbol, 1306 01:10:03.078 --> 01:10:05.246 affecting you so gravely that you 1307 01:10:05.288 --> 01:10:07.123 cannot see a [inaudible]. 1308 01:10:07.165 --> 01:10:08.333 (crowd starts chanting) 1309 01:10:08.375 --> 01:10:11.753 * Get the fuck out of New Orleans * 1310 01:10:12.212 --> 01:10:15.131 * Get the fuck out of New Orleans * 1311 01:10:15.173 --> 01:10:17.509 - I pray for America. I really do. 1312 01:10:18.426 --> 01:10:20.970 (crowd cheering) 1313 01:10:35.527 --> 01:10:36.945 - Dear God, our Heavenly Father, 1314 01:10:36.986 --> 01:10:38.780 we thank you for your 1315 01:10:38.822 --> 01:10:42.617 love and your grace and your mercy and please bless us 1316 01:10:42.659 --> 01:10:46.913 during the coming hour as we pay homage to our ancestors, 1317 01:10:46.955 --> 01:10:50.542 the fifteen thousand two hundred and sixty five souls 1318 01:10:50.583 --> 01:10:53.294 that gave their life to defend the great state 1319 01:10:53.336 --> 01:10:55.296 of Mississippi. For Christ's sake, Amen. 1320 01:10:55.338 --> 01:10:56.548 (all) - Amen, 1321 01:10:56.589 --> 01:10:58.800 - Our next speaker is someone that I really 1322 01:10:58.842 --> 01:11:01.094 appreciate and he's got backbone. 1323 01:11:01.136 --> 01:11:03.805 And that's the kind of people we need, people to stand up. 1324 01:11:04.347 --> 01:11:07.267 Mr. William Shirley of Clark County, 1325 01:11:07.308 --> 01:11:08.935 would you come say a few words? 1326 01:11:09.853 --> 01:11:10.979 Good man! - Yeah! 1327 01:11:11.688 --> 01:11:14.315 (clapping) 1328 01:11:15.483 --> 01:11:17.360 - Flag means a whole lot to me. 1329 01:11:17.944 --> 01:11:19.988 You're not going to take the damn flag down with my vote. 1330 01:11:21.531 --> 01:11:23.491 So I'm going to do all I can do. 1331 01:11:23.533 --> 01:11:26.578 And I suggest you find your legislator and make your ear 1332 01:11:26.619 --> 01:11:30.623 known to him or her, because we all 1333 01:11:30.665 --> 01:11:32.834 in the Mississippi house are going to get to vote on them 1334 01:11:32.876 --> 01:11:36.755 amendments again and again and again. 1335 01:11:36.796 --> 01:11:38.965 And they're going to get tired of seeing me. 1336 01:11:39.007 --> 01:11:40.467 And they're going to try 1337 01:11:40.508 --> 01:11:43.053 to get somebody to replace people like me that just don't 1338 01:11:43.094 --> 01:11:45.638 go along with y'alls boss man. 1339 01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:47.057 If you're taking state 1340 01:11:47.098 --> 01:11:50.185 dollars, you fly the flag of the state of Mississippi. 1341 01:11:50.226 --> 01:11:52.645 (clapping) 1342 01:11:55.190 --> 01:11:56.358 Thank y'all. 1343 01:11:56.399 --> 01:11:58.318 - I'm gonna let our Mississippi Senator 1344 01:11:58.360 --> 01:12:00.320 McDaniel come up and speak. 1345 01:12:00.362 --> 01:12:02.364 (clapping) 1346 01:12:02.739 --> 01:12:04.324 - Political correctness 1347 01:12:04.366 --> 01:12:06.034 is an incredibly dangerous doctrine. 1348 01:12:07.369 --> 01:12:09.329 It's anti intellectual. 1349 01:12:09.371 --> 01:12:13.333 It's anti decent. It demands conformity. 1350 01:12:13.375 --> 01:12:15.001 Do you believe they'll stop with a monument? 1351 01:12:15.043 --> 01:12:16.836 Do you believe they'll stop with a pattern 1352 01:12:16.878 --> 01:12:18.046 or design on a flag? 1353 01:12:18.088 --> 01:12:20.507 They ridicule our traditions. 1354 01:12:20.548 --> 01:12:22.550 They mock us, they laugh at us. 1355 01:12:22.592 --> 01:12:24.469 You feel like you're losing your country, don't you? 1356 01:12:27.222 --> 01:12:28.890 You feel marginalized. 1357 01:12:29.557 --> 01:12:30.934 You're scared. 1358 01:12:32.352 --> 01:12:33.728 Mississippi has to stand. 1359 01:12:33.770 --> 01:12:35.563 We have nothing else to surrender. 1360 01:12:35.605 --> 01:12:36.898 We are those warriors, 1361 01:12:36.940 --> 01:12:39.526 men and women of the soil, stubborn, courageous. 1362 01:12:39.567 --> 01:12:40.777 We stand here on the edge 1363 01:12:40.819 --> 01:12:44.698 of history, ready to push back one more time. 1364 01:12:44.739 --> 01:12:46.491 Help's not coming from California. 1365 01:12:46.533 --> 01:12:47.575 It's not coming from Massachusetts. 1366 01:12:47.617 --> 01:12:48.868 It has to be you. 1367 01:12:48.910 --> 01:12:50.161 What are you going to do about it? 1368 01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:57.168 (dramatic music swells) 1369 01:13:04.092 --> 01:13:06.469 - How would you like to see Uncle Billy dance? 1370 01:13:06.511 --> 01:13:08.138 (children clapping) 1371 01:13:08.972 --> 01:13:11.933 (harmonica music) 1372 01:13:11.975 --> 01:13:14.144 (tap dancing) 1373 01:13:18.189 --> 01:13:21.317 [Dr. Blight] At the end of the day, historical memory is always 1374 01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:24.738 about who is controlling the story. 1375 01:13:26.531 --> 01:13:29.325 And you got to do it in a society that has this 1376 01:13:29.367 --> 01:13:34.664 horrible problem with racism. The theories of race that most 1377 01:13:34.706 --> 01:13:38.877 white Americans, north or south, still share. 1378 01:13:41.129 --> 01:13:45.467 (dramatic music) 1379 01:13:50.889 --> 01:13:53.975 By the 1890's in the north, 1380 01:13:54.017 --> 01:13:57.937 there's a tremendous fear of a world that seems to be 1381 01:13:57.979 --> 01:14:01.274 floating into disorder in these teeming new cities 1382 01:14:01.316 --> 01:14:05.612 full of these immigrants speaking unusual languages. 1383 01:14:09.824 --> 01:14:12.994 Maybe the race question should just be left to the South. 1384 01:14:17.248 --> 01:14:20.752 They've always known how to handle the race question 1385 01:14:22.671 --> 01:14:25.465 at the same time, there will be over nine 1386 01:14:25.507 --> 01:14:28.176 million African-Americans, mostly in the South. 1387 01:14:29.803 --> 01:14:31.471 There's no longer the slavery 1388 01:14:31.513 --> 01:14:33.807 system that kept this all contained. 1389 01:14:35.350 --> 01:14:37.769 White Southerners need to keep 1390 01:14:37.811 --> 01:14:41.690 this burgeoning black population on the land as 1391 01:14:41.731 --> 01:14:45.652 laborers not engaging in educational advancement. 1392 01:14:45.694 --> 01:14:48.738 They need a new system to keep them there. 1393 01:14:49.864 --> 01:14:53.868 The solution in the south was a system of Jim Crow laws. 1394 01:14:54.536 --> 01:14:56.037 Everything from schooling 1395 01:14:56.079 --> 01:14:59.666 to voting to transportation, public accommodation, 1396 01:14:59.708 --> 01:15:03.962 every element of life is now going to be segregated. 1397 01:15:05.380 --> 01:15:06.923 Lots of white Americans, 1398 01:15:06.965 --> 01:15:10.927 North or South, can unify around segregation 1399 01:15:10.969 --> 01:15:14.097 as a way to keep society in social order. 1400 01:15:20.645 --> 01:15:22.272 The way in which this culture 1401 01:15:22.313 --> 01:15:26.818 became within the first half century after the war, 1402 01:15:26.860 --> 01:15:31.656 an American North South reunion without racial 1403 01:15:31.698 --> 01:15:35.118 justice left a deep set of legacies 1404 01:15:35.160 --> 01:15:37.746 we are, of course, still struggling with. 1405 01:15:37.787 --> 01:15:41.541 And every time we think we have so much of this put 1406 01:15:41.583 --> 01:15:45.754 aside, we suddenly are reminded that we don't. 1407 01:15:46.629 --> 01:15:49.132 (crowd yelling) 1408 01:15:51.176 --> 01:15:57.265 The only way today we'll see a new, more inclusive reunion 1409 01:15:57.307 --> 01:16:01.311 of Americans is if there's a coalition of interest 1410 01:16:01.353 --> 01:16:04.064 that stops looking only at their own individual 1411 01:16:04.105 --> 01:16:08.735 interest and sees themselves in these four or five issues 1412 01:16:08.777 --> 01:16:10.653 and sees themselves in other people. 1413 01:16:14.115 --> 01:16:15.325 Ok. 1414 01:16:21.915 --> 01:16:23.416 [Director] We're just going to record 1415 01:16:23.458 --> 01:16:24.793 the sound of the room a little bit. 1416 01:16:24.834 --> 01:16:27.087 And then if you could change the frame too. 1417 01:16:27.796 --> 01:16:29.297 There you go. 1418 01:16:30.006 --> 01:16:32.175 If I were going to make a movie about you, 1419 01:16:32.217 --> 01:16:35.011 what do you want me to make sure that I include? 1420 01:16:36.346 --> 01:16:37.639 - I want you to show like 1421 01:16:38.932 --> 01:16:41.017 the great things that I'm capable of. 1422 01:16:41.059 --> 01:16:42.310 Like, 1423 01:16:42.352 --> 01:16:46.981 yeah, I'm if if I do say so myself, I'm a great 1424 01:16:48.108 --> 01:16:50.944 football player, but I'm also smart in the classroom. 1425 01:16:50.985 --> 01:16:54.739 I try I try to be-- I'm just trying to be great in life. 1426 01:16:54.781 --> 01:16:55.865 I'm trying to make something of my life, 1427 01:16:55.907 --> 01:16:57.367 trying to be successful. 1428 01:16:57.409 --> 01:17:00.453 - To be honest with you, what I've been through. 1429 01:17:00.495 --> 01:17:02.622 There are people who just look 1430 01:17:02.664 --> 01:17:04.624 at the good things, look at the good things, 1431 01:17:04.666 --> 01:17:08.128 but I'd rather you see what the negativity was. 1432 01:17:08.169 --> 01:17:11.214 So it's like it counteracts it's like here's the bad. 1433 01:17:11.256 --> 01:17:13.299 But now here where I'm at, I'm good now. 1434 01:17:13.341 --> 01:17:14.718 I'm in a good zone. 1435 01:17:14.759 --> 01:17:17.178 I was in-- you know what I'm saying? It's more like I'd 1436 01:17:17.220 --> 01:17:19.764 rather you not just tell half of my story, I'd rather 1437 01:17:19.806 --> 01:17:21.349 you tell the whole story. 1438 01:17:23.268 --> 01:17:26.604 - There was this one where a teacher once described me as 1439 01:17:27.022 --> 01:17:28.773 I think it was sympathetic. 1440 01:17:30.525 --> 01:17:32.986 I thought she called me pathetic when she said that. 1441 01:17:33.028 --> 01:17:34.320 [Director] It might have an empathetic. 1442 01:17:34.362 --> 01:17:35.405 - Empathetic, yeah. 1443 01:17:35.447 --> 01:17:36.364 At the end of the day, it's just like 1444 01:17:37.574 --> 01:17:39.034 you know, we all have feelings. 1445 01:17:39.075 --> 01:17:41.953 We all have like a history that nobody else knows about. 1446 01:17:43.747 --> 01:17:45.331 Yeah. 1447 01:17:46.875 --> 01:17:49.919 (thoughtful music) 1448 01:17:57.927 --> 01:18:01.097 - I was certainly not taught this way in my high school. 1449 01:18:01.139 --> 01:18:02.807 (all laugh) 1450 01:18:02.849 --> 01:18:04.434 So-- - Neither was I! 1451 01:18:05.226 --> 01:18:08.188 - I'm always shocked when I find students of a certain age 1452 01:18:08.229 --> 01:18:10.607 who haven't seen Gone with the Wind. 1453 01:18:10.648 --> 01:18:12.359 And I point them to it. 1454 01:18:12.400 --> 01:18:13.735 You need to watch that film. 1455 01:18:13.777 --> 01:18:17.697 [Kelly] It was the most watched movie of all time. 1456 01:18:17.739 --> 01:18:19.532 People are eating this stuff up 1457 01:18:19.574 --> 01:18:21.868 like there's a real reason why 1458 01:18:21.910 --> 01:18:24.120 people have weddings on plantations. 1459 01:18:24.162 --> 01:18:25.872 Like you would never, you would 1460 01:18:25.914 --> 01:18:28.375 never go to Auschwitz and be like, let's get married. 1461 01:18:28.416 --> 01:18:30.460 Like you would never do that. 1462 01:18:30.502 --> 01:18:33.296 But we have so made black pain 1463 01:18:33.338 --> 01:18:36.424 and suffering like a place of our enjoyment, 1464 01:18:36.466 --> 01:18:40.345 a place that feels good to us, a place that feels familiar 1465 01:18:40.387 --> 01:18:44.265 to us, that we don't pay attention to the suffering. 1466 01:18:44.307 --> 01:18:48.853 We don't pay attention to why it's problematic. 1467 01:18:48.895 --> 01:18:50.605 - I know you talked about the force in your 1468 01:18:50.647 --> 01:18:55.902 presentation, but how do you define freedom for yourself? 1469 01:18:55.944 --> 01:18:58.071 - I have been conditioned 1470 01:18:58.113 --> 01:19:01.658 to think of emancipation as an ending point, 1471 01:19:01.700 --> 01:19:06.579 so I realized that freedom was not just like liberation. 1472 01:19:06.621 --> 01:19:10.834 Freedom was like owning your humanity, 1473 01:19:10.875 --> 01:19:13.169 operating in your full humanity, 1474 01:19:13.211 --> 01:19:16.214 being recognized for your full humanity. 1475 01:19:16.256 --> 01:19:18.258 I think that the spirit of slavery, 1476 01:19:18.299 --> 01:19:21.094 that I talked about before, that makes color a mark 1477 01:19:21.136 --> 01:19:24.180 of degradation is still very much with us. 1478 01:19:24.222 --> 01:19:27.350 And I think for too long, the onus of racism has been 1479 01:19:27.392 --> 01:19:30.311 put on people of color to solve when this is not 1480 01:19:30.353 --> 01:19:31.730 really like a people of color issue. 1481 01:19:31.771 --> 01:19:33.273 This is like a white 1482 01:19:33.314 --> 01:19:34.941 supremacist issue where white people need to talk to other 1483 01:19:34.983 --> 01:19:38.820 white people about how they can overcome these issues. 1484 01:19:38.862 --> 01:19:40.280 White allies today have 1485 01:19:40.321 --> 01:19:44.826 to take a very radical stance and that they can't just, 1486 01:19:44.868 --> 01:19:46.453 you know, put up the bumper sticker. 1487 01:19:46.494 --> 01:19:47.662 Black Lives Matter. 1488 01:19:47.704 --> 01:19:49.164 Are you going to allow your 1489 01:19:49.205 --> 01:19:52.292 child to be one of the few whites in an all black school? 1490 01:19:52.334 --> 01:19:54.377 Are you going to invest in that school making sure 1491 01:19:54.419 --> 01:19:56.629 that not just your child, but every child 1492 01:19:56.671 --> 01:20:00.550 in that community gets a fair shake? To balance like this 1493 01:20:00.592 --> 01:20:04.262 great injustice that's taking place for hundreds of years 1494 01:20:04.304 --> 01:20:07.265 it requires sacrifice. I don't know what that will 1495 01:20:07.307 --> 01:20:09.809 look like exactly for you or for each person. 1496 01:20:09.851 --> 01:20:12.395 It's different. I think the... 1497 01:20:14.522 --> 01:20:17.359 (reflective music) 1498 01:20:26.284 --> 01:20:29.120 - This is Pleasant Gardens. This is where most 1499 01:20:29.162 --> 01:20:31.206 of the African-American in the city were buried. 1500 01:20:32.457 --> 01:20:36.336 It was an operation from 1891 through 1970. 1501 01:20:37.462 --> 01:20:39.255 Well, one that I saw in the paper, an article about 1502 01:20:39.297 --> 01:20:41.549 an abandoned cemetery, and so I thought, 1503 01:20:41.591 --> 01:20:43.885 I can't believe that there's a place here that's so rich 1504 01:20:43.927 --> 01:20:45.303 with history and I didn't know about it. 1505 01:20:45.345 --> 01:20:47.847 And so I use the map on the front of the newspaper 1506 01:20:47.889 --> 01:20:51.351 and drove over to the cemetery and found this beautiful place 1507 01:20:51.393 --> 01:20:54.938 and immediately felt the need to organize some community 1508 01:20:54.979 --> 01:20:56.773 cleanups to bring attention to it. 1509 01:20:57.315 --> 01:20:58.817 Many of the African-Americans 1510 01:20:58.858 --> 01:21:01.903 that are buried here were not slaves, and so they could be 1511 01:21:01.945 --> 01:21:03.947 buried and recognized in different ways. 1512 01:21:03.988 --> 01:21:07.701 But there's a very interesting cemetery called 1513 01:21:07.742 --> 01:21:09.285 Beck Knob Cemetery 1514 01:21:09.327 --> 01:21:12.288 that's located on the north side of the town. 1515 01:21:12.747 --> 01:21:15.250 And it was a slave cemetery. 1516 01:21:15.291 --> 01:21:19.129 And when you look at how overgrown it is, 1517 01:21:19.170 --> 01:21:21.589 it's almost sad that 1518 01:21:22.716 --> 01:21:25.176 you can almost drive past it and not even know it. 1519 01:21:25.218 --> 01:21:26.386 [Director] Would you take us there? 1520 01:21:26.428 --> 01:21:27.804 - Yeah, I could take you there, 1521 01:21:27.846 --> 01:21:29.222 but I don't know how much 1522 01:21:29.264 --> 01:21:31.641 you'll be able to see because it's really overgrown. 1523 01:21:33.143 --> 01:21:36.104 (truck engine roaring) 1524 01:21:48.700 --> 01:21:49.993 Wow. 1525 01:22:02.839 --> 01:22:04.966 (truck engines) 1526 01:22:22.817 --> 01:22:24.569 I knew I wasn't crazy. 1527 01:22:25.445 --> 01:22:28.198 Look how close this line is to that. 1528 01:22:31.493 --> 01:22:34.162 (peaceful music) 1529 01:23:00.355 --> 01:23:01.815 [Director] What has been the most 1530 01:23:01.856 --> 01:23:03.149 important story that you've 1531 01:23:03.191 --> 01:23:05.485 talked about in history class so far this year? 1532 01:23:06.236 --> 01:23:08.238 - Well, slavery was bad. 1533 01:23:08.697 --> 01:23:10.115 We should still feel guilty 1534 01:23:10.156 --> 01:23:12.367 because it's something that happened. 1535 01:23:12.409 --> 01:23:14.077 [Director] But we interviewed a kid 1536 01:23:14.119 --> 01:23:15.370 from Estonia and he has white 1537 01:23:15.412 --> 01:23:17.831 skin and his family wasn't even here. 1538 01:23:17.872 --> 01:23:20.125 Should he feel guilty about it? 1539 01:23:20.792 --> 01:23:23.712 - Well, if he's living in our country now, 1540 01:23:25.130 --> 01:23:29.426 then I think he should feel a little guilt because 1541 01:23:29.467 --> 01:23:32.470 it's still part of his, it's still part 1542 01:23:32.512 --> 01:23:34.681 of his history, because now he's part of our 1543 01:23:34.723 --> 01:23:38.435 country and he should feel a little guilt, 1544 01:23:38.476 --> 01:23:39.436 I think. 1545 01:23:40.061 --> 01:23:41.730 [Director] Is guilt useful? 1546 01:23:42.063 --> 01:23:44.024 - Yes. - Tell me why. 1547 01:23:44.065 --> 01:23:46.276 - Because it helps us understand that 1548 01:23:46.317 --> 01:23:48.069 what we did was wrong 1549 01:23:48.111 --> 01:23:53.199 and we shouldn't go back to doing it and we should 1550 01:23:53.241 --> 01:23:56.619 fix our ways so we can do better in the future. 1551 01:23:57.829 --> 01:24:01.041 - I personally, like, slavery is morally wrong. 1552 01:24:01.082 --> 01:24:03.043 Like you just shouldn't own other people. 1553 01:24:03.084 --> 01:24:05.253 That's not something that should happen. 1554 01:24:05.295 --> 01:24:08.715 But I see the reasoning 1555 01:24:08.757 --> 01:24:14.220 behind it and I can understand it and not accept it, 1556 01:24:14.888 --> 01:24:16.431 but I guess, 1557 01:24:17.098 --> 01:24:20.685 see, like, behind it, I guess. 1558 01:24:21.269 --> 01:24:23.063 [Director] I think a lot depends on whose 1559 01:24:23.104 --> 01:24:25.231 eyes you're looking through. Right? 1560 01:24:25.273 --> 01:24:27.275 Are we talking about a white point of view 1561 01:24:27.317 --> 01:24:28.568 or a black point of view? 1562 01:24:28.610 --> 01:24:30.695 A lot depends on who you are, I think. 1563 01:24:32.280 --> 01:24:34.783 - I want to know, like, what was your perspective 1564 01:24:34.824 --> 01:24:38.495 of the whole slavery situation and how you 1565 01:24:38.536 --> 01:24:42.207 feel like, because you you know, you being, you were 1566 01:24:42.248 --> 01:24:46.419 raised, like how do you feel when people-- 1567 01:24:48.004 --> 01:24:49.881 [Director] I feel like it was wrong. 1568 01:24:51.966 --> 01:24:54.719 I feel like it was deeply wrong. 1569 01:24:56.805 --> 01:24:59.099 But I also feel like 1570 01:24:59.140 --> 01:25:01.726 I never learned about slavery as a white story. 1571 01:25:03.019 --> 01:25:05.563 I mean, most people around me, we never talk about slavery as 1572 01:25:05.605 --> 01:25:08.900 something white people did and benefited from, you know? 1573 01:25:09.984 --> 01:25:11.069 It was always just presented 1574 01:25:11.111 --> 01:25:13.321 as something that just happened. 1575 01:25:26.626 --> 01:25:28.837 [Dr. Blight] I want to introduce Ibram Kendi. 1576 01:25:28.878 --> 01:25:31.089 Ibram, you argue that the current 1577 01:25:31.131 --> 01:25:32.841 threat of racism is more 1578 01:25:32.882 --> 01:25:37.012 insidious now than it has been in the past. 1579 01:25:37.053 --> 01:25:38.179 [Ibram] Precisely. 1580 01:25:38.221 --> 01:25:40.473 Just as Lincoln said 1581 01:25:40.515 --> 01:25:42.851 that the nation will either become 1582 01:25:42.892 --> 01:25:44.477 all one or all the other, 1583 01:25:44.519 --> 01:25:46.479 meaning slavery or antislavery. 1584 01:25:46.521 --> 01:25:50.525 I think it's the same thing for racism and anti-racism. 1585 01:25:52.861 --> 01:25:57.657 If we see America's history of steady racial progress 1586 01:25:57.699 --> 01:26:00.827 that we have now reached the mountaintop, 1587 01:26:00.869 --> 01:26:04.873 racism is no longer critical and important. 1588 01:26:06.082 --> 01:26:10.253 We're also saying the cause of racial inequities today 1589 01:26:10.295 --> 01:26:13.340 is not racism, because we've moved beyond racism. 1590 01:26:14.257 --> 01:26:15.842 It's the inferiority 1591 01:26:15.884 --> 01:26:19.387 of particular people that are not working hard enough. 1592 01:26:20.305 --> 01:26:23.558 (introspective music) 1593 01:26:24.893 --> 01:26:28.688 There was a racist idea that is still very prominent 1594 01:26:28.730 --> 01:26:31.733 within the community of people who consider themselves 1595 01:26:31.775 --> 01:26:34.569 liberal, even progressive or even radical. 1596 01:26:34.611 --> 01:26:37.906 The oppression inferiority thesis. 1597 01:26:37.947 --> 01:26:41.117 First, it was slavery making black people into brutes. 1598 01:26:41.159 --> 01:26:43.244 Right now, it's poverty. 1599 01:26:44.329 --> 01:26:47.540 This idea that racism itself 1600 01:26:47.582 --> 01:26:51.419 or discrimination wasn't just sort of harming 1601 01:26:51.461 --> 01:26:55.840 people, but it was literally leading to inferior behaviors. 1602 01:26:58.843 --> 01:27:01.596 (introspective music) 1603 01:27:14.943 --> 01:27:16.903 [Director] When you walk down the street 1604 01:27:16.945 --> 01:27:18.530 and people see you, 1605 01:27:18.571 --> 01:27:20.240 what do you want people to think about you? 1606 01:27:20.281 --> 01:27:21.700 Do you think about that ever? 1607 01:27:22.617 --> 01:27:24.327 - I want them to think that I'm 1608 01:27:24.369 --> 01:27:28.123 an intelligent girl and I'm not bad. 1609 01:27:28.164 --> 01:27:30.625 I'm actually very good and I'm smart. 1610 01:27:30.667 --> 01:27:32.002 [Director] What makes you a very good? 1611 01:27:33.169 --> 01:27:35.046 - That I follow directions. 1612 01:27:35.964 --> 01:27:37.507 Well, sometimes. 1613 01:27:37.549 --> 01:27:38.717 [Director] What else? 1614 01:27:39.467 --> 01:27:42.804 - Um, I want them to think that I'm not ugly. 1615 01:27:44.055 --> 01:27:47.058 (quiet music) 1616 01:27:52.147 --> 01:27:53.523 [Director] It seems to me that one 1617 01:27:53.565 --> 01:27:55.025 of the major challenges 1618 01:27:55.066 --> 01:27:58.445 for you was a history teacher would be teaching in a way 1619 01:27:58.486 --> 01:28:00.989 that connects with such a diverse student body. 1620 01:28:01.031 --> 01:28:02.949 - Yes. Yeah, it is. 1621 01:28:04.325 --> 01:28:05.952 [Director] Boston Latin is kind of like 1622 01:28:05.994 --> 01:28:07.245 the nation in miniature 1623 01:28:07.287 --> 01:28:08.455 because it is so old 1624 01:28:08.496 --> 01:28:10.040 and it did start as 1625 01:28:10.081 --> 01:28:12.959 a segregated all male institution. 1626 01:28:13.001 --> 01:28:14.794 - Yeah, it's the oldest school 1627 01:28:14.836 --> 01:28:19.341 in the country. Was founded in 1635 by 1628 01:28:19.382 --> 01:28:21.760 a portion of the population of Boston, England. 1629 01:28:21.801 --> 01:28:23.678 It was all male, was all white. 1630 01:28:23.720 --> 01:28:26.473 It was all people of privilege. 1631 01:28:28.308 --> 01:28:29.601 [Director] You know, I've really come 1632 01:28:29.642 --> 01:28:31.770 to believe that part of the purpose of history is 1633 01:28:31.811 --> 01:28:33.521 to tell a story that unites us. 1634 01:28:33.563 --> 01:28:35.482 - Yeah. - But in order 1635 01:28:35.523 --> 01:28:38.651 for that story to work, we have to see ourselves as 1636 01:28:38.693 --> 01:28:40.695 being in the same boat to begin with. 1637 01:28:40.737 --> 01:28:42.197 - Yeah. 1638 01:28:42.238 --> 01:28:43.990 - We have to see ourselves as connected to other people. 1639 01:28:44.032 --> 01:28:45.492 - I really agree. 1640 01:28:45.533 --> 01:28:47.452 [Director] So in your class today, 1641 01:28:47.494 --> 01:28:48.995 how do you tell a story 1642 01:28:49.037 --> 01:28:52.499 that helps these kids see themselves as connected to all 1643 01:28:52.540 --> 01:28:54.959 the diverse people that surround them? 1644 01:28:55.001 --> 01:28:58.713 - Well, it's important to talk about race and the history. 1645 01:28:58.755 --> 01:29:00.965 And I want kids to understand 1646 01:29:01.007 --> 01:29:03.927 that where we are today has its roots in the past. 1647 01:29:03.968 --> 01:29:06.805 But it's really hard to convey the full scope of the way 1648 01:29:06.846 --> 01:29:10.517 the history of this country plays out today. 1649 01:29:10.558 --> 01:29:14.229 And I think it's really difficult to talk about race. 1650 01:29:14.729 --> 01:29:17.524 How do you actually help kids 1651 01:29:17.565 --> 01:29:21.027 to be different than us, our generation, 1652 01:29:21.069 --> 01:29:23.321 who doesn't really know how to do this very well? 1653 01:29:23.363 --> 01:29:25.365 How do you, the only way you do 1654 01:29:25.407 --> 01:29:27.784 that is by having them do it. 1655 01:29:27.826 --> 01:29:29.661 Ok, I want to know what went 1656 01:29:29.703 --> 01:29:32.205 into place after reconstruction. 1657 01:29:32.247 --> 01:29:33.957 Look at integration 1658 01:29:33.998 --> 01:29:37.335 of schools, fair treatment by juries. 1659 01:29:37.377 --> 01:29:38.795 Those are the kinds of things. 1660 01:29:38.837 --> 01:29:41.464 How are we doing now? We'll put the school 1661 01:29:41.506 --> 01:29:43.591 segregation folks in that corner. 1662 01:29:43.633 --> 01:29:46.761 We'll put the jury selection folks in the back corner 1663 01:29:46.803 --> 01:29:50.807 - With the black voting race, I found that the 15th 1664 01:29:50.849 --> 01:29:53.977 Amendment, it gave African-American males 1665 01:29:54.019 --> 01:29:56.521 the right to vote, but they kept finding 1666 01:29:56.563 --> 01:29:58.481 loopholes to keep them from voting. 1667 01:29:58.523 --> 01:30:01.067 And today, 13 percent are 1668 01:30:01.109 --> 01:30:04.612 prohibited from voting because they have served in prison. 1669 01:30:06.281 --> 01:30:08.700 - Yeah? - Ok, umm 1670 01:30:09.284 --> 01:30:11.619 well, I guess I'll say I guess 1671 01:30:11.661 --> 01:30:14.748 I think we're running out of time, but I, I just think 1672 01:30:14.789 --> 01:30:20.045 talking about this is really not helpful because 1673 01:30:22.547 --> 01:30:24.341 I mean, what it does is-- (school bell rings) 1674 01:30:24.382 --> 01:30:26.509 - Sit still. - It puts people in an 1675 01:30:26.551 --> 01:30:29.679 unproductive mindset, because what it does 1676 01:30:29.721 --> 01:30:32.766 is it makes white people feel guilty and it makes black 1677 01:30:32.807 --> 01:30:35.185 people feel like victims. - Don't go anywhere. 1678 01:30:35.226 --> 01:30:37.062 And I want to know 1679 01:30:37.103 --> 01:30:39.856 what people want to say back to that, because I think it's 1680 01:30:39.898 --> 01:30:42.484 important that you have a chance to say something. 1681 01:30:42.525 --> 01:30:44.152 So I'm going to go with Andriana first. 1682 01:30:44.194 --> 01:30:45.528 - Like, if you're treated 1683 01:30:45.570 --> 01:30:48.740 differently because of something you can't change, 1684 01:30:48.782 --> 01:30:50.158 why wouldn't you be a victim? 1685 01:30:50.200 --> 01:30:51.451 Like you don't have to talk 1686 01:30:51.493 --> 01:30:53.578 about something to feel a certain way. 1687 01:30:53.620 --> 01:30:56.164 [Student] Have you? - Yes. 1688 01:30:56.206 --> 01:31:01.127 - So I see all these hands and we had a bell. 1689 01:31:01.169 --> 01:31:03.046 And I'm so sorry that we're 1690 01:31:03.088 --> 01:31:05.799 going to have to stop this, but we will pick this up. 1691 01:31:05.840 --> 01:31:07.842 Look right where you are. See your hands in the air? 1692 01:31:07.884 --> 01:31:09.219 Put your hands in the air. 1693 01:31:09.260 --> 01:31:11.680 This is where we start tomorrow. 1694 01:31:13.348 --> 01:31:14.599 [Director] How did you feel about the 1695 01:31:14.641 --> 01:31:15.934 conversation in Section 41 today? 1696 01:31:15.975 --> 01:31:17.185 (gasps) 1697 01:31:17.435 --> 01:31:19.521 (nervous laughter) 1698 01:31:19.562 --> 01:31:20.605 - Terrified. 1699 01:31:20.647 --> 01:31:22.565 - The idea I wanted to dismantle 1700 01:31:22.607 --> 01:31:25.193 is that there's like a system 1701 01:31:26.403 --> 01:31:27.987 in a place 1702 01:31:28.029 --> 01:31:29.030 like 1703 01:31:30.281 --> 01:31:32.450 that like 1704 01:31:32.492 --> 01:31:34.202 benefits white people 1705 01:31:34.244 --> 01:31:41.084 and like has a negative effect on black people. 1706 01:31:41.126 --> 01:31:43.253 - I don't want to squash this child. 1707 01:31:43.294 --> 01:31:44.838 He's, you know, 1708 01:31:44.879 --> 01:31:50.635 bringing sincere, you know, and rigourous. 1709 01:31:51.720 --> 01:31:55.015 He's I think the word he used was 1710 01:31:55.265 --> 01:31:57.017 logic. 1711 01:31:57.058 --> 01:31:58.727 He's thinking about it logically. 1712 01:31:58.768 --> 01:32:02.647 And logic says that there's got to be a reason for that. 1713 01:32:02.689 --> 01:32:05.191 But he doesn't have an answer when I say, you know, 1714 01:32:05.233 --> 01:32:08.611 so what might be the reason if you think it's not systemic 1715 01:32:08.653 --> 01:32:11.823 racism that has caused this, what what is the reason? 1716 01:32:11.865 --> 01:32:13.324 And he says, I don't know. 1717 01:32:13.366 --> 01:32:16.870 - You shouldn't have something to blame your problems on. 1718 01:32:16.911 --> 01:32:18.538 And I don't think that's-- 1719 01:32:18.580 --> 01:32:20.123 I don't think that's a good thing. 1720 01:32:20.165 --> 01:32:21.833 Asian-Americans here, 1721 01:32:21.875 --> 01:32:24.711 they have a hard time, but they still succeed. 1722 01:32:24.753 --> 01:32:26.546 - That's going to be continued tomorrow. 1723 01:32:26.588 --> 01:32:28.048 And I've got to spend my time 1724 01:32:28.089 --> 01:32:30.592 thinking tonight, what am I going to say 1725 01:32:30.633 --> 01:32:34.054 that respects how hard this kid is thinking 1726 01:32:34.095 --> 01:32:36.014 about these things, which is exactly what I want 1727 01:32:36.056 --> 01:32:40.060 him to do and still push back a little bit and say, 1728 01:32:40.101 --> 01:32:43.396 you know, so I think you're missing some of the picture 1729 01:32:43.438 --> 01:32:46.191 here in a really important way. 1730 01:32:48.943 --> 01:32:52.447 I gave you this document about the Jim Crow era, 1731 01:32:52.489 --> 01:32:55.742 which was written by Michelle Alexander in her book. 1732 01:32:55.784 --> 01:32:58.411 So as you're reading through that, I want you thinking, 1733 01:32:58.453 --> 01:33:02.123 how did they recreate a lower class based on race 1734 01:33:02.165 --> 01:33:03.625 after reconstruction? 1735 01:33:03.667 --> 01:33:06.461 - Black people in prison, they auctioned off 1736 01:33:06.503 --> 01:33:09.214 the prisoners to the highest bidder. 1737 01:33:09.255 --> 01:33:13.259 - There was a loophole about slavery in the 13th Amendment. 1738 01:33:13.301 --> 01:33:15.303 Did anyone catch that? 1739 01:33:15.345 --> 01:33:16.596 - They outlawed slavery, 1740 01:33:16.638 --> 01:33:19.766 but it was fit as a punishment for a crime. 1741 01:33:19.808 --> 01:33:23.186 - What she's trying to say is that the criminal justice 1742 01:33:23.228 --> 01:33:27.565 system, it's literally like the same thing as Jim Crow, 1743 01:33:27.607 --> 01:33:29.067 which is her point. 1744 01:33:29.109 --> 01:33:30.985 [Instructor] I think you would say a new iteration of it. 1745 01:33:31.027 --> 01:33:32.987 That's what we're really trying to look at, 1746 01:33:33.029 --> 01:33:35.907 is the ways that that is still with us. 1747 01:33:35.949 --> 01:33:38.451 - That's assuming Jim Crow has a-- 1748 01:33:38.493 --> 01:33:39.577 [Instructor] A presence today? 1749 01:33:39.619 --> 01:33:41.204 - Yeah, that's your assumption. - It is. 1750 01:33:41.246 --> 01:33:43.289 - That's not that's not my assumption. 1751 01:33:43.331 --> 01:33:45.083 Asian-Americans are routinely 1752 01:33:45.125 --> 01:33:47.043 discriminated against when applying for colleges. 1753 01:33:47.085 --> 01:33:48.211 They have to get about like 1754 01:33:48.253 --> 01:33:50.839 400 SAT points higher than black people. 1755 01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:52.507 And also they're discriminated 1756 01:33:52.549 --> 01:33:54.050 against when they're applying for jobs. 1757 01:33:54.092 --> 01:33:56.511 (school bell rings) Your mind is so closed off 1758 01:33:56.553 --> 01:33:58.304 to certain ideas. (students laugh) 1759 01:33:58.346 --> 01:33:59.597 - We'll continue. 1760 01:33:59.639 --> 01:34:01.307 We will continue. 1761 01:34:01.349 --> 01:34:04.352 I love that you hang in there. 1762 01:34:05.687 --> 01:34:07.981 - They're not willing to consider certain ideas 1763 01:34:08.023 --> 01:34:09.649 because they've been taught to 1764 01:34:09.691 --> 01:34:12.736 [crosstalk] 1765 01:34:12.777 --> 01:34:15.280 - Yeah, but is the certain idea that you're really 1766 01:34:15.321 --> 01:34:17.782 suggesting that Asians are better than black people? 1767 01:34:17.824 --> 01:34:20.285 That's not what you're really saying, is it? 1768 01:34:20.326 --> 01:34:21.578 - I mean, 1769 01:34:21.619 --> 01:34:24.205 I'm not saying they're like inherently better. 1770 01:34:24.247 --> 01:34:27.000 I'm just saying their situation is better right now. 1771 01:34:27.959 --> 01:34:30.128 - But what would you attribute that to? 1772 01:34:31.046 --> 01:34:34.883 - Higher income, higher representation 1773 01:34:34.924 --> 01:34:37.218 in colleges and in uhh-- 1774 01:34:37.260 --> 01:34:39.262 - But why do you think they have that? 1775 01:34:39.304 --> 01:34:41.473 And why do you think black people don't? 1776 01:34:42.557 --> 01:34:45.018 - I don't know, I mean, Asians are discriminated much 1777 01:34:45.060 --> 01:34:47.103 more in those areas because-- 1778 01:34:47.145 --> 01:34:49.147 - Than black people? - Yes. 1779 01:34:49.898 --> 01:34:51.775 - We'll agree to disagree on that point, 1780 01:34:51.816 --> 01:34:53.360 but we'll come back to it, Ok? 1781 01:34:53.401 --> 01:34:54.694 - Ok. - All right. 1782 01:34:54.736 --> 01:34:56.821 - Well, I hope you, I hope you look into that. 1783 01:34:56.863 --> 01:34:59.115 - I will look into it. Good. 1784 01:34:59.157 --> 01:35:00.825 Thank you. 1785 01:35:02.035 --> 01:35:05.121 It's a revelation to me that presenting, 1786 01:35:05.163 --> 01:35:09.084 no matter how much information you present, sometimes 1787 01:35:09.125 --> 01:35:11.378 people are going to hear it the way they want to hear it 1788 01:35:11.419 --> 01:35:14.381 and they're not going to budge, at least not yet. 1789 01:35:14.422 --> 01:35:16.091 He's not. 1790 01:35:17.258 --> 01:35:20.887 But that's exactly what you're in for when you open the door 1791 01:35:20.929 --> 01:35:22.931 to having these kinds of conversations. 1792 01:35:22.972 --> 01:35:24.933 That's what's hard to navigate. 1793 01:35:28.687 --> 01:35:31.231 (quiet music) 1794 01:35:47.288 --> 01:35:49.916 - We're celebrating Confederate Heroes Day, 1795 01:35:49.958 --> 01:35:51.209 it's a Texas state holiday 1796 01:35:51.251 --> 01:35:53.628 celebrated on the 19th of January every year, 1797 01:35:53.670 --> 01:35:56.256 which is also Robert E. Lee's birthday. 1798 01:35:56.297 --> 01:35:59.009 - The bill was filed by a representative from Pensacola. 1799 01:35:59.050 --> 01:36:01.219 It says that a memorial can't 1800 01:36:01.261 --> 01:36:03.972 be moved unless it needs to be refurbished. 1801 01:36:04.014 --> 01:36:05.849 - This monument right here 1802 01:36:05.890 --> 01:36:08.435 outside the old courthouse in downtown Pittsboro was 1803 01:36:08.476 --> 01:36:10.103 given to the county by the 1804 01:36:10.145 --> 01:36:13.023 Daughters of the Confederacy back in the early 1900's. 1805 01:36:13.064 --> 01:36:15.316 - I'm in favor of the statues staying. 1806 01:36:16.359 --> 01:36:20.321 A lot of ancestors of mine had fought and died. 1807 01:36:20.613 --> 01:36:23.366 And they didn't die for slavery. 1808 01:36:24.367 --> 01:36:25.827 They had no slaves. 1809 01:36:25.869 --> 01:36:27.620 (applause) 1810 01:36:28.163 --> 01:36:32.250 (crowd chanting and yelling) 1811 01:36:32.500 --> 01:36:35.420 [Crowd] Pull! Pull! 1812 01:36:40.258 --> 01:36:44.888 (crowd yelling and cheering) 1813 01:36:57.609 --> 01:36:59.611 (applause) 1814 01:37:01.446 --> 01:37:04.824 - Story starts with seeing the monuments, 1815 01:37:04.866 --> 01:37:07.535 but it's also about being in this black body. 1816 01:37:07.577 --> 01:37:09.871 What does that feel like to have your country, 1817 01:37:09.913 --> 01:37:13.291 your nation say this is what we stand by? 1818 01:37:13.333 --> 01:37:17.420 No. We want more, we demand more. 1819 01:37:17.962 --> 01:37:21.174 We say yes to something that looks like us. 1820 01:37:21.216 --> 01:37:23.426 We say yes to inclusivity. 1821 01:37:25.053 --> 01:37:28.264 We say yes to broader notions 1822 01:37:28.306 --> 01:37:30.058 of what it means to be an American. 1823 01:37:33.436 --> 01:37:36.398 (dramatic music) 1824 01:37:50.578 --> 01:37:53.915 (dramatic music)