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         [ Rain pattering ]         

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Official YIFY movies site:
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                Wray:               
      "It's hard to imagine now     

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 after everything that's happened 
    in the brutal decades since,    

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           but the events           
       of September 11, 2001,       

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      were all but unimaginable     
            in mid-2000,            

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          when an earnest,          
     bookish California teenager    

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      named John Walker Lindh,      
               age 19,              

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      decided to travel to the      
   Middle East to study the Quran. 

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          The consequences          
          of that decision          

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   are a matter of public record.   

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          Two months after          
     the Twin Towers had fallen,    

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              six weeks             
       after the United States      

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       dropped its first bomb       
           on Afghanistan,          

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   a few hundred Taliban soldiers, 
      held as prisoners of war      

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            in an ancient           
       mud-and-brick fortress       

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        near Mazar-i-Sharif,        
         staged an uprising.        

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    All but 86 of those prisoners   
             would die,             

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       as well as a man named       
        Johnny Micheal Spann,       

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 who was serving as a CIA adviser 

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         to America's allies        
           on the ground.           

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    It was discovered that one of   
     the few surviving prisoners    

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    was an American -- Mr. Lindh.   

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       A media frenzy ensued."      

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   You know, as a fiction writer,   

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     you don't necessarily think    
         that what you write        

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       is going to immediately      
    have real-world consequences.   

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           I was probably           
         a little bit naive.        

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   I'd written some op-eds before, 
      but none of them had ever     

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   pissed people off to the degree 
         that this one did.         

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      "The fact that Mr. Lindh      

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            had enlisted            
      as a simple foot soldier      

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   in a strictly regional conflict 

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         between the Taliban        
    and a group of rival warlords   

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    availed him next to nothing,    

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     especially once his filthy,    
       bearded, wild-eyed face      

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 was broadcast around the world." 

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       Man: John Walker Lindh       
     is leaving prison much like    

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    he went in nearly two decades   
        ago, under a cloud --       

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                Wray:               
      "He found himself branded     

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      the 'American Taliban.'"      

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    Why in the world                
 would you take this man in?       

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        "America had captured       
           a clear villain          

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    in the otherwise bewildering,   
     morally muddy war on terror    

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    and understandably, perhaps,    
   we didn't want to let him go."   

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     ...captured him                
 and put him in prison.            

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          "We still don't."         

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       The case of a criminal       

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       as universally reviled       
            as Mr. Lindh            

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   is an opportunity for a display 
      of righteous indignation      

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         to which virtually         
   no potential voter will object. 

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            For precisely           
        that reason, however,       

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    great caution is called for.    

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 His release, and the controversy 
           surrounding it,          

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      may prove a valuable test     
           of our ability           

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     to keep our worst impulses     
              in check.             

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        If John Walker Lindh        
        becomes the terrorist       

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      we've always accused him      
              of being,             

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    the fault will lie with us --   

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         with our ignorance,        
       and our intolerance --       

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      as much as with Mr. Lindh     
              himself."             

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         So my straightener         
      that I've ha-- Oh, wait.      

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     She's not in here -- died.     
    [ Hair straightener clicks ]    

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             I've had it            
        for, like, six years.       

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      Yeah, so that's gonna be      

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             a major...             
       [ Straightener clacks ]      

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       My dad had curly hair,       
       my aunt had curly hair,      

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         and my mom's mother        
           has curly hair,          

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     so I got it from all sides     
            of my family            

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          and I don't want          
      to lose it or damage it.      

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                So...               

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        Um...so two things...       

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              Actually,             
         I would say three.         

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       My dad always wanted me      
             to be aware            

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         of current events.         
          [ Zipper opens ]          

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            So, you know,           
         when 9/11 happened,        

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          our school didn't         
         show us the video.         

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   But when I got home, I sat with 
      my dad in front of the TV     

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     and watched that all night.    

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     Now, some people would say,    

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 "Oh, you shouldn't let your kids 
       see that kind of stuff.      

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          You know, it's --         
      Shelter them from that."      

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        But my dad never did.       

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      Like, when we would have      
              reading,              

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   like, we had to read something   
           for the night,           

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      my dad would pull, like,      
        newspaper clippings.        

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         I remember one time        
         I read this article        

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       in the newspaper called      
      "The Pacifist Claptrap,"      

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       and that was my reading      
           for the night.           

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     And he was like, "Don't --     
        don't write that down       

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    as what you read, but this is   
        what you're reading."       

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     So it was always important     
       as a kid to be informed      

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         on current events.         

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       And the second thing is      
     when I went to Afghanistan,    

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              we stayed             
     in General Dostum's houses.    

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       And every time we went       
        to see him, you know,       

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            for a dinner            
       or something like that,      

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             the news --            
       Fox News was always on.      

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     So at that point, you know,    
                at 9,               

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        I realized the reach        
       that being in the news       

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 and informing people goes, like, 
        even in Afghanistan,        

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    where all I see are mud huts    
    around me, the news is still,   

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     you know, at least reaching    
          some households.          

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    Of course, not everyone lives   
    like Gen. Dostum over there,    

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   but you just realize the reach   
              that has.             

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      And then the third reason     

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      is one of the worst days      

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         that I can remember        
        after my parents died       

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      was the day that we were      
       doing a show for Oprah.      

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   And we were filming at a park,   

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           and I was like,          
   "I don't -- I don't want this,   

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      like, I want to go home."     

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       And then the film crew       
           asks these kids          

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     to, like, get off the toys     
           and let us play          

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   so they could film us playing.   

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     And I was beyond mortified.    

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    It was one of the worst days    
           I can remember,          

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   and so I always felt like if I   
 could tell compassionate stories 

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   without overstepping my bounds, 
          that I needed to          

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        because I know there        
 are so many out there who don't. 

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    Looking back now, it's weird    

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      because when we would go      
   to Arlington National Cemetery, 

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 my dad was very particular about 
   how we walked to the cemetery.   

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       You always have to walk      
         behind the graves,         

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      and you never, like, step     
        on somebody's grave.        

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      And he sort of taught us      
       how the respectful way       

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             to navigate            
       through that cemetery,       

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   not knowing that a year later,   

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             he himself             
       would be buried there.       

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00:08:05,110 --> 00:08:14,202
                                   

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                    Oh -- Hi.       

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                   I was like,      
            "Is this car running?" 

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 [ Speaking indistinctly ]         
           [ Keys clack ]           

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                      Wait.         
            What are you covering? 

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                Here. Do you want   
               your real key back? 

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          Did you watch the 10:00? 
 Probably not. It was a disaster. 

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 No, I did, actually.              
    I watched the --                

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      What happened                 
      at the start?                 

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        So the show wasn't loading 
      in the new automated system. 

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              So it started, like, 
             after the open and -- 

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   Do I want to know?               
                             No.    

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        Had John Walker Lindh       
      not been there that day,      

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         the prison uprising        
     would have still happened.     

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          My dad would have         
         still been killed.         

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          But when you add          
         John Walker Lindh,         

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       that's the point where       
    the story could have changed.   

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         It could have been         
          this American kid         

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       on a spiritual journey       
             gets lost.             

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       He finds an American...      

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      who comes to his rescue,      
            essentially,            

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   if he had told my dad and Dave, 

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     "Hey, this prison uprising     
          is gonna happen."         

169
00:09:21,811 --> 00:09:25,773
     Maybe no one, no Americans     
   would have had to die that day. 

170
00:09:25,815 --> 00:09:27,817
    But that's not what happened.   

171
00:09:27,859 --> 00:09:30,361
     So I think it just makes it    
    all the worse for our family,   

172
00:09:30,403 --> 00:09:32,363
       knowing that there was       
      an element in that prison     

173
00:09:32,405 --> 00:09:35,950
      that could have prevented     
           my dad's death.          

174
00:09:35,992 --> 00:09:38,077
           And he didn't.           

175
00:09:38,119 --> 00:09:39,913
      He chose to stay silent.      

176
00:09:39,954 --> 00:09:43,208
            So the story            
      would have been the same.     

177
00:09:43,249 --> 00:09:45,084
     I just think it could have     
    played out a lot differently    

178
00:09:45,126 --> 00:09:48,588
        if John Walker Lindh        
     had made different choices.    

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00:09:52,050 --> 00:09:53,718
                Wray:               
    When I was writing my novel,    

180
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,848
   I had to sort of imagine myself 
            in this town            

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00:09:58,890 --> 00:10:02,518
      that I grew up in and how     
   desperately I wanted to escape. 

182
00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:06,231
     I grew up wanting to write     
      fiction and write novels,     

183
00:10:06,272 --> 00:10:08,775
            and I thought           
      that this was an episode,     

184
00:10:08,816 --> 00:10:11,903
      a footnote, if you will,      
     in America's war on terror     

185
00:10:11,945 --> 00:10:15,949
        that almost contained       
    everything else in microcosm.   

186
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:18,326
            So I had done           
      a little bit of homework      

187
00:10:18,368 --> 00:10:22,163
     to sort of reverse-engineer    
      this sequence of choices      

188
00:10:22,205 --> 00:10:23,998
          all the way back          
           to Marin County          

189
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,919
      and putting in a VHS tape     
           of "Malcolm X."          

190
00:10:27,961 --> 00:10:33,174
   But as far as I understand it,   
   that's really how it happened.   

191
00:10:33,216 --> 00:10:34,634
     You know, and I can imagine    
         that very clearly.         

192
00:10:34,676 --> 00:10:38,304
                                   

193
00:10:38,346 --> 00:10:40,139
    Boettcher: Walker Lindh told    
           his questioners          

194
00:10:40,181 --> 00:10:42,267
            that he began           
        his journey to Islam        

195
00:10:42,308 --> 00:10:44,644
       after seeing the movie       
             "Malcolm X"            

196
00:10:44,686 --> 00:10:46,020
      when he was 12 years old.     

197
00:10:46,062 --> 00:10:48,273
     Plymouth Rock landed on us.    

198
00:10:48,314 --> 00:10:49,691
             Boettcher:             
      That launched an odyssey      

199
00:10:49,732 --> 00:10:51,985
      that took him from being      
      a teenage Muslim convert      

200
00:10:52,026 --> 00:10:53,486
       in northern California       

201
00:10:53,528 --> 00:10:56,322
         to an Arabic school        
        in Yemen to Pakistan.       

202
00:10:56,364 --> 00:10:58,658
      Wray: What could be more      
         American than that?        

203
00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:02,787
     Pop culture is what brought    
          John Walker Lindh         

204
00:11:02,829 --> 00:11:07,000
         to a tiny madrassa         
   near the border of Afghanistan, 

205
00:11:07,041 --> 00:11:11,629
      the most far-removed spot     
          you could imagine         

206
00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:13,423
        from where he began,        

207
00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:16,592
       which was just watching      
         a Spike Lee movie.         

208
00:11:16,634 --> 00:11:18,636
     Reporter: John Walker Lindh    
      stands accused of trying      

209
00:11:18,678 --> 00:11:22,348
     to kill his own countrymen,    
   and many wonder what drove him   

210
00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:24,976
            into the arms           
     and service of the Taliban.    

211
00:11:25,018 --> 00:11:28,521
       We found clues here at       
 the madrassa or religious school 

212
00:11:28,563 --> 00:11:30,815
          where he studied          
        for almost six months       

213
00:11:30,857 --> 00:11:33,818
 using his Muslim name, Sulayman. 

214
00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:37,363
      He abruptly left and left     
    behind his Arabic workbooks,    

215
00:11:37,405 --> 00:11:41,659
    his suitcase full of Western    
    clothes, even his toothpaste.   

216
00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:45,538
   It was as if he turned his back 
    forever on John Walker Lindh,   

217
00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:47,165
            the American.           

218
00:11:47,206 --> 00:11:50,918
 Wray: If someone spends a minute 
     or two trying to figure out    

219
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,171
    how this could have happened,   

220
00:11:53,212 --> 00:11:54,380
   they're not gonna get anywhere   

221
00:11:54,422 --> 00:11:57,717
        and then essentially,       
          in exasperation,          

222
00:11:57,759 --> 00:12:00,511
      they'll just fall back on     
   the most knee-jerk explanation   

223
00:12:00,553 --> 00:12:02,722
        of "This kid was just       
            a bad apple.            

224
00:12:02,764 --> 00:12:04,182
    He was just a born traitor."    

225
00:12:04,223 --> 00:12:06,225
        He's expected to move       
        to Northern Virginia,       

226
00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:08,394
        just outside of D.C.        
               George.              

227
00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:09,979
 We'll see if they can             
    police that okay.               

228
00:12:10,021 --> 00:12:12,565
      Reporter #2: The American     
     Taliban, John Walker Lindh,    

229
00:12:12,607 --> 00:12:15,193
    released from federal prison    
       today after serving...       

230
00:12:15,234 --> 00:12:17,487
    Bernsten: John Walker Lindh,    
            38 years old.           

231
00:12:17,528 --> 00:12:21,532
    He's gonna be out and living    
 in your neighborhood in America. 

232
00:12:21,574 --> 00:12:23,743
             Personally,            
      I wanted to see him hung.     

233
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,248
       Mike Spann, a dedicated      
             family man             

234
00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:31,793
    who was doing the right thing   
          for his country,          

235
00:12:31,834 --> 00:12:34,253
      winds up losing his life.     

236
00:12:34,295 --> 00:12:36,255
 I'm outraged by the whole thing. 

237
00:12:37,632 --> 00:12:39,467
    Radack: But even the history    
             of 9/11 --             

238
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:40,927
     My kids are in high school.    

239
00:12:40,968 --> 00:12:44,889
        9/11 is not mentioned       
       in their history books,      

240
00:12:44,931 --> 00:12:46,474
       which is amazing to me.      

241
00:12:46,516 --> 00:12:48,976
    I don't know if it's just not   
       enough time has gone by      

242
00:12:49,018 --> 00:12:50,937
       for it to be considered      
              "history"             

243
00:12:50,978 --> 00:12:55,900
    or it just does not look good   
    for America because we were,    

244
00:12:55,942 --> 00:12:59,195
      I feel like, improvising      
    a lot of the response to 9/11   

245
00:12:59,237 --> 00:13:01,531
      because it was uncharted      
             territory.             

246
00:13:01,572 --> 00:13:05,451
    And improvising your response   
             to 9/11...             

247
00:13:05,493 --> 00:13:07,578
       [ Photograph flutters ]      
         ...looks like this.        

248
00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:15,628
                                   

249
00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:18,631
           This guy takes           
        a CIA officer's life,       

250
00:13:18,673 --> 00:13:21,426
         joins the Taliban,         
            is a traitor,           

251
00:13:21,467 --> 00:13:23,261
         doesn't want to --         
       you know, Death to Am--      

252
00:13:23,302 --> 00:13:26,639
    Joins this group that's Death   
 to America, and he gets 20 years 

253
00:13:26,681 --> 00:13:29,058
            and gets out            
     for good behavior earlier.     

254
00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:32,812
     It's a sad part of American    
    policy and a judicial system    

255
00:13:32,854 --> 00:13:36,149
     that they didn't let him go    
         in front of a jury,        

256
00:13:36,190 --> 00:13:38,860
       let them sentence him,       
          take the chance.          

257
00:13:38,901 --> 00:13:43,698
 You know, the Justice Department 
     and politicians frequently,    

258
00:13:43,739 --> 00:13:46,451
      you know, are, you know,      
   want to -- want to do a layup.   

259
00:13:46,492 --> 00:13:49,120
      They want the easy thing.     
             Cut a deal.            

260
00:13:49,162 --> 00:13:53,040
 No, take them to trial so people 
       can see and understand.      

261
00:13:53,708 --> 00:13:57,170
   It would educate the population 
        to see these trials,        

262
00:13:57,211 --> 00:14:00,923
   and I think society benefits by 
 having an airing of these crimes 

263
00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:06,804
 against us and a fuller exercise 
       of the justice system.       

264
00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:10,683
              Try them.             

265
00:14:10,725 --> 00:14:14,437
                                   

266
00:14:14,479 --> 00:14:17,023
    [ Camera shutters clicking ]    

267
00:14:17,064 --> 00:14:20,735
    [ Indistinct conversations ]    

268
00:14:24,322 --> 00:14:27,492
            Man: Move to            
       the other side, please!      

269
00:14:27,533 --> 00:14:29,368
            Reporter #3:            
     On the anthrax story today,    

270
00:14:29,410 --> 00:14:31,621
       four more post offices       
    tested positive for anthrax.    

271
00:14:31,662 --> 00:14:33,206
            Reporter #5:            
       The last several days,       

272
00:14:33,247 --> 00:14:35,374
            intelligence            
    and law-enforcement agencies    

273
00:14:35,416 --> 00:14:37,335
    have seen an increased volume   

274
00:14:37,376 --> 00:14:39,629
          involving threats         
        of terrorist attacks.       

275
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:41,130
   Reporter #6: This is the third   
           terrorism alert          

276
00:14:41,172 --> 00:14:42,757
        since September 11th.       

277
00:14:42,798 --> 00:14:44,926
        Reporter #5: Federal        
   investigators now have approval 

278
00:14:44,967 --> 00:14:47,428
     to eavesdrop on phone calls    

279
00:14:47,470 --> 00:14:49,722
     between terrorist suspects     
          and their lawyers         

280
00:14:49,764 --> 00:14:51,724
       under the rule inmates       
             and lawyers            

281
00:14:51,766 --> 00:14:54,602
            must be told            
     they're being monitored...     

282
00:14:54,644 --> 00:14:58,564
             Brosnahan:             
       I think that any parent      

283
00:14:58,606 --> 00:15:02,151
      can understand the desire     
     that these two good parents    

284
00:15:02,193 --> 00:15:05,279
       have to see their son.       

285
00:15:05,321 --> 00:15:09,158
        No matter what anyone       
       thinks about anything.       

286
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,118
            It's part of            
       the Geneva Convention.       

287
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,746
 It's part of civilized protocol. 

288
00:15:13,788 --> 00:15:18,501
   It's part of nations agreements 
    that parents will be allowed    

289
00:15:18,543 --> 00:15:21,337
        to see their children       
    under certain circumstances.    

290
00:15:21,379 --> 00:15:25,550
   And as of this moment, they've   
    not been allowed to do that.    

291
00:15:25,591 --> 00:15:27,426
 We're a little disappointed,      
 but the guards did tell us        

292
00:15:27,468 --> 00:15:28,844
      that John was                 
     in good health.                

293
00:15:28,886 --> 00:15:30,680
 We're very glad to hear that.     
       Thank you.                   

294
00:15:30,721 --> 00:15:35,768
                                   

295
00:15:35,810 --> 00:15:41,107
                                   

296
00:15:41,148 --> 00:15:44,026
       Today, I am announcing       
   the filing of criminal charges   

297
00:15:44,068 --> 00:15:48,030
     against John Walker Lindh,     
         an American citizen        

298
00:15:48,072 --> 00:15:53,661
   who was captured in Afghanistan 
      fighting for the Taliban.     

299
00:15:53,703 --> 00:15:56,497
         As terrorists made         
      their final preparations      

300
00:15:56,539 --> 00:15:58,708
   for the September 11th attacks, 

301
00:15:58,749 --> 00:16:01,961
          Walker Lindh met          
        with Usama bin Laden.       

302
00:16:02,003 --> 00:16:05,923
     He chose to go to the front    
 lines to fight with the Taliban. 

303
00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:09,635
        The United States is        
   charging Walker with conspiracy 

304
00:16:09,677 --> 00:16:13,806
   to kill nationals of the United 
     States of America overseas,    

305
00:16:13,848 --> 00:16:16,684
     providing material support     
            and resources           

306
00:16:16,726 --> 00:16:20,313
            to designated           
 foreign terrorist organizations, 

307
00:16:20,354 --> 00:16:22,982
         including Al-Qaeda,        

308
00:16:23,024 --> 00:16:27,737
       engaging in prohibited       
   transactions with the Taliban.   

309
00:16:27,778 --> 00:16:30,906
    He chose to embrace fanatics,   

310
00:16:30,948 --> 00:16:33,784
         and his allegiance         
          to those fanatics         

311
00:16:33,826 --> 00:16:37,830
   and terrorists never faltered,   
     not even with the knowledge    

312
00:16:37,872 --> 00:16:42,001
       that they had murdered       
    thousands of his countrymen,    

313
00:16:42,043 --> 00:16:44,587
     not with the knowledge that    
     they were engaged in a war     

314
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:46,839
       with the United States,      

315
00:16:46,881 --> 00:16:49,634
         and not finally in         
         the prison uprising        

316
00:16:49,675 --> 00:16:53,512
   that took the life of CIA agent 
            Johnny Spann.           

317
00:16:55,056 --> 00:16:56,724
          Clerk: All rise.          

318
00:16:56,766 --> 00:17:00,227
   United States of America versus 
     John Phillip Walker Lindh,     

319
00:17:00,269 --> 00:17:03,481
        case number 02-51-M.        

320
00:17:03,522 --> 00:17:06,484
         Bring the defendant        
       to the podium, please.       

321
00:17:06,525 --> 00:17:08,944
       Mr. John Walker Lindh?       

322
00:17:08,986 --> 00:17:10,404
      Walker: Yes.                  

323
00:17:10,446 --> 00:17:11,739
           You are before           
 the United States District Court 

324
00:17:11,781 --> 00:17:14,283
      for the Eastern District      
            of Virginia.            

325
00:17:14,325 --> 00:17:17,078
           You are charged          
       with alleged violations      

326
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,454
        of United States law.       

327
00:17:18,496 --> 00:17:20,539
           You understand           
       generally the charges?       

328
00:17:20,581 --> 00:17:23,125
   Yes, I understand,               
       generally.                   

329
00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:27,129
   Do you understand generally the 
   penalties that can be imposed?   

330
00:17:27,171 --> 00:17:29,882
    Yes, I understand               
       generally.                   

331
00:17:29,924 --> 00:17:32,802
     Brosnahan: May I just say one 
        thing briefly, Your Honor? 

332
00:17:32,843 --> 00:17:34,845
               Judge:               
      Yes, sir, Mr. Brosnahan.      

333
00:17:34,887 --> 00:17:36,722
              The attorney general 
              of the United States 

334
00:17:36,764 --> 00:17:39,809
                announced charges   
   against Mr. Lindh last Tuesday. 

335
00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:41,560
     This is the first arraignment 
                that he has had.    

336
00:17:41,602 --> 00:17:44,397
           So he was not arraigned 
                 within 48 hours    

337
00:17:44,438 --> 00:17:45,898
               and until yesterday 
                 was never told     

338
00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:47,733
                what the charges    
                were against him.   

339
00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:49,568
                  I just wanted     
              to inform the court. 

340
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:51,195
   Well, I appreciate the comment. 

341
00:17:51,237 --> 00:17:53,155
      I'm not sure of the date      
    when he was actually arrested   

342
00:17:53,197 --> 00:17:54,657
         by federal agents.         

343
00:17:54,699 --> 00:17:57,952
   The initial warrant was issued   
           on January 15.           

344
00:17:57,993 --> 00:18:00,496
     He was arrested approximately 
                on December 1st.    

345
00:18:00,538 --> 00:18:02,415
            He was kept in custody 
                   for 54 days      

346
00:18:02,456 --> 00:18:03,958
                without a lawyer.   

347
00:18:03,999 --> 00:18:06,127
             He asked for a lawyer 
            somewhere in the first 

348
00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:07,586
           or second or third day. 

349
00:18:07,628 --> 00:18:10,297
        And this is the first time 
               that the government 

350
00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:12,341
                 has brought him    
                 before a court.    

351
00:18:12,383 --> 00:18:14,927
             Mr. Lindh,             
       have you any questions       

352
00:18:14,969 --> 00:18:17,888
        about what the court        
       has explained thus far?      

353
00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:20,057
    No, I don't have                
     any questions.                 

354
00:18:20,099 --> 00:18:23,227
                                   

355
00:18:23,269 --> 00:18:25,271
             Man: Order!            

356
00:18:25,312 --> 00:18:27,440
          Clerk: All rise.          

357
00:18:27,481 --> 00:18:29,316
        Judge: Good morning,        
             Mr. Walker.            

358
00:18:29,358 --> 00:18:31,193
                  Walker Lindh:     
               Good morning, sir.   

359
00:18:31,235 --> 00:18:32,820
      Alright, let me ask you,      

360
00:18:32,862 --> 00:18:34,905
        how do you now plead        
        to all of the charges       

361
00:18:34,947 --> 00:18:38,951
           against you --           
        guilty or not guilty?       

362
00:18:38,993 --> 00:18:41,203
                   Not guilty.      

363
00:18:41,245 --> 00:18:43,080
     Alright, you may be seated.    

364
00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:45,624
   The matter is before the court   
     on the government's motion     

365
00:18:45,666 --> 00:18:48,461
           for detention.           
           Mr. Brosnahan.           

366
00:18:48,502 --> 00:18:50,296
        Brosnahan: Thank you.       

367
00:18:50,337 --> 00:18:52,798
        John Walker Lindh was       
   transported to the front lines   

368
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,135
   to fight the Northern Alliance   
       on the 6th of September      

369
00:18:56,177 --> 00:18:58,471
         of last year, 2001.        

370
00:18:58,512 --> 00:18:59,722
   He was there in the front lines 

371
00:18:59,764 --> 00:19:02,099
          until they broke          
         in early November.         

372
00:19:02,141 --> 00:19:06,103
             Your Honor,            
   he never fought with al-Qaeda.   

373
00:19:06,145 --> 00:19:09,815
     He never had anything to do    
      with terrorist activity.      

374
00:19:09,857 --> 00:19:11,692
          As to the Taliban         
          who he was with,          

375
00:19:11,734 --> 00:19:14,361
   United States government itself 

376
00:19:14,403 --> 00:19:16,739
         had prior dealings         
          with the Taliban.         

377
00:19:16,781 --> 00:19:19,450
           In fact, as of           
       the 10th of September,       

378
00:19:19,492 --> 00:19:22,077
    there was not a single person   
   in the United States government 

379
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,622
          that had any idea         
      that we would be engaged      

380
00:19:24,663 --> 00:19:27,208
       in military operations       
           in Afghanistan.          

381
00:19:27,249 --> 00:19:31,420
          John Walker Lindh         
     has never been in trouble.     

382
00:19:31,462 --> 00:19:34,131
          He doesn't drink.         
       He doesn't take drugs.       

383
00:19:34,173 --> 00:19:35,883
      He is a religious person      

384
00:19:35,925 --> 00:19:39,094
     who follows the teaching of    
   the church that he has adopted. 

385
00:19:39,136 --> 00:19:41,472
     He has parents who are here    
          in the courtroom.         

386
00:19:41,514 --> 00:19:42,848
             Thank you.             

387
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:44,433
           Judge: Alright.          

388
00:19:44,475 --> 00:19:46,018
     The defendant has no social    
       or economic stability.       

389
00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:48,771
 His record of gainful employment 
             is limited             

390
00:19:48,813 --> 00:19:51,857
 to a 3-week stint at a warehouse 
         some two years ago.        

391
00:19:51,899 --> 00:19:54,443
       The defendant has lived      
    outside of the United States    

392
00:19:54,485 --> 00:19:58,364
          from May of 1998          
        to February of 1999,        

393
00:19:58,405 --> 00:19:59,824
           while in Yemen.          

394
00:19:59,865 --> 00:20:01,534
           And in Pakistan          
        and then Afghanistan        

395
00:20:01,575 --> 00:20:04,954
     from February of 2000 until    
     brought in to this district    

396
00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:07,289
    on January 23rd of this year.   

397
00:20:07,331 --> 00:20:10,835
     I conclude, based on clear     
      and convincing evidence,      

398
00:20:10,876 --> 00:20:13,879
     that if released, he poses     
     a danger to the community.     

399
00:20:13,921 --> 00:20:16,257
          And accordingly,          
   I grant the government's motion 

400
00:20:16,298 --> 00:20:18,884
         that the defendant         
       be detained for trial.       

401
00:20:20,094 --> 00:20:23,013
    Ashcroft: It is extraordinary   
        for the United States       

402
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:26,225
          to have to charge         
       one of its own citizens      

403
00:20:26,267 --> 00:20:30,855
   with aiding and conspiring with 
   international terrorist groups   

404
00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:35,192
           whose agenda is          
         to kill Americans.         

405
00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:39,697
    Today, a grand jury examined    
        the government's case       

406
00:20:39,738 --> 00:20:42,908
        and saw fit to charge       
          John Walker Lindh         

407
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:47,121
       with 10 serious crimes,      
            based in part           

408
00:20:47,162 --> 00:20:52,626
       on voluntary statements      
       made by Lindh himself.       

409
00:20:52,668 --> 00:20:56,839
     I think the American people    
            probably want           

410
00:20:56,881 --> 00:20:59,717
        the attorney general        
      to focus on those people      

411
00:20:59,758 --> 00:21:03,429
       who really did the harm      
           to this nation.          

412
00:21:03,470 --> 00:21:04,763
     I think the American people    

413
00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:07,892
            probably want           
        the attorney general        

414
00:21:07,933 --> 00:21:09,852
       and we know our people       
         are doing the best         

415
00:21:09,894 --> 00:21:13,063
         that we can to find        
          Osama bin Laden,          

416
00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:17,067
 to find Omar and to find someone 
        who sent the anthrax.       

417
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:19,570
     We understand they're doing    
          the best they can         

418
00:21:19,612 --> 00:21:20,779
    and we're with them on that.    

419
00:21:20,821 --> 00:21:23,115
         We hope all of that        
           is successful.           

420
00:21:23,157 --> 00:21:25,826
       But meanwhile, I'd ask       
        the attorney general        

421
00:21:25,868 --> 00:21:28,454
         to not take it out         
           on John Lindh,           

422
00:21:28,495 --> 00:21:32,458
   because in my view and I'm not   
      gonna take any questions,     

423
00:21:32,499 --> 00:21:37,755
 in my view, they have brought up 
   the cannon to shoot the mouse.   

424
00:21:37,796 --> 00:21:40,799
         Thank you very much        
     for being here. Thank you.     

425
00:21:40,841 --> 00:21:45,304
                                   

426
00:21:45,346 --> 00:21:46,847
          [ Money rustles ]         

427
00:21:57,816 --> 00:22:00,945
      Radack: He was our first      
        terrorism prosecution       

428
00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:04,406
             after 9/11.            

429
00:22:04,448 --> 00:22:08,160
            [ Explosion,            
         people screaming ]         

430
00:22:08,202 --> 00:22:18,128
                                   

431
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:28,138
                                   

432
00:22:28,180 --> 00:22:30,849
      President George W. Bush:     
          Make no mistake,          

433
00:22:30,891 --> 00:22:36,355
     the United States will hunt    
           down and punish          

434
00:22:36,397 --> 00:22:37,815
         those responsible.         

435
00:22:37,856 --> 00:22:40,317
       The people who knocked       
        these buildings down        

436
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,027
      will hear all of us soon.     

437
00:22:42,069 --> 00:22:44,697
       [ Cheers and applause ]      

438
00:22:44,738 --> 00:22:48,409
         [ Sirens blaring ]         

439
00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:58,002
                                   

440
00:22:58,043 --> 00:23:07,511
                                   

441
00:23:07,553 --> 00:23:11,849
 Pelton: One thing that's changed 
    dramatically was before 9/11,   

442
00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:16,228
             I can visit            
   or be with any group on Earth.   

443
00:23:16,270 --> 00:23:18,188
       The FBI wouldn't knock       
             on my door.            

444
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:21,567
       People wouldn't call me      
     a communist or a terrorist     

445
00:23:21,608 --> 00:23:23,193
            or whatever.            

446
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:26,071
    After 9/11, it just, "Vshoo."   
         It just polarized.         

447
00:23:26,113 --> 00:23:29,241
       And there was no trying      
        to explain to people.       

448
00:23:29,283 --> 00:23:31,493
     Like, "Okay, but these guys    
      call themselves jihadis,      

449
00:23:31,535 --> 00:23:33,037
   but they're not really jihadis. 

450
00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:34,747
       And the guys that we're      
    paying money to are jihadis,    

451
00:23:34,788 --> 00:23:36,206
       but they don't say that      

452
00:23:36,248 --> 00:23:37,583
    because the CIA doesn't want    
            them to sa--"           

453
00:23:37,624 --> 00:23:39,293
           In other words,          
     it didn't change the world.    

454
00:23:39,334 --> 00:23:43,047
           It just changed          
    our perception of the world.    

455
00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:46,383
          Interviewer: How did you 
                come to do that?    

456
00:23:46,425 --> 00:23:49,053
     I was filming in all these     
       different insurgencies,      

457
00:23:49,094 --> 00:23:51,555
           so Afghanistan,          
       Philippines, Chechnya,       

458
00:23:51,597 --> 00:23:52,931
    and always on the wrong side,   

459
00:23:52,973 --> 00:23:54,767
      always on the rebel side      
        where they would say,       

460
00:23:54,808 --> 00:23:55,976
        "Come, we're winning,       
           we're winning."          

461
00:23:56,018 --> 00:23:57,394
          And I'd get there         
           and they'd say,          

462
00:23:57,436 --> 00:23:58,729
         "Oh, we're losing.         
      How did you get in here?"     

463
00:23:58,771 --> 00:24:00,355
    And I feel like, "Aw, shit."    

464
00:24:00,397 --> 00:24:04,068
           These are just           
    one tiny bit of my archives.    

465
00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:07,404
        I spent a lot of time       
     with what we call jihadis.     

466
00:24:07,446 --> 00:24:09,073
               I mean,              
   the John Walker Lindh thing --   

467
00:24:09,114 --> 00:24:11,450
            he's just one           
    of the many jihadis I've met.   

468
00:24:11,492 --> 00:24:15,037
                                   

469
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:17,289
             I'm the guy            
       that made them famous,       

470
00:24:17,331 --> 00:24:20,959
      but my main interest was      
     going back to Afghanistan,     

471
00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:23,045
     being with General Dostum,     

472
00:24:23,087 --> 00:24:26,048
     watching how Dostum fought     
            the Taliban,            

473
00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:29,426
          and it had a lot          
      of historical importance      

474
00:24:29,468 --> 00:24:31,261
    because this was after 9/11.    
          And don't forget,         

475
00:24:31,303 --> 00:24:34,890
      people didn't care about      
    Afghanistan until that point.   

476
00:24:34,932 --> 00:24:37,935
        Pres. George W. Bush:       
        This war on terrorism       

477
00:24:37,976 --> 00:24:39,645
       is gonna take a while.       

478
00:24:39,686 --> 00:24:43,148
    Anybody who's been associated   
     will be brought to justice.    

479
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:46,610
     Those who harbor terrorists    
     will be brought to justice.    

480
00:24:46,652 --> 00:24:47,986
      It is time for us to win      

481
00:24:48,028 --> 00:24:51,115
            the first war           
   of the 21st century decisively. 

482
00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:55,619
                                   

483
00:24:55,661 --> 00:24:56,995
      Man: In this first wave,      

484
00:24:57,037 --> 00:24:59,581
    U.S. Special Forces hunt down   
            and root out            

485
00:24:59,623 --> 00:25:02,459
 Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda 
         terrorist network.         

486
00:25:02,501 --> 00:25:04,044
     Man: ...breakthrough today,    

487
00:25:04,086 --> 00:25:06,213
 opposition forces in Afghanistan 

488
00:25:06,255 --> 00:25:09,174
     captured the northern city     
         of Mazar-i-Sharif.         

489
00:25:09,216 --> 00:25:12,594
      500 Taliban fighters were     
           taken prisoner.          

490
00:25:12,636 --> 00:25:14,888
   Reporter #10: The bloody revolt 
        by Taliban prisoners        

491
00:25:14,930 --> 00:25:16,348
         in Mazar-i-Sharif,         

492
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:18,767
        a town where the war        
      was supposed to be over,      

493
00:25:18,809 --> 00:25:20,185
         is grisly testament        

494
00:25:20,227 --> 00:25:22,646
      to the dangers that still     
             lie ahead.             

495
00:25:22,688 --> 00:25:26,859
 Rumsfeld: Anyone who thinks it's 
    over in those towns is wrong.   

496
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,863
           It just isn't.           
     They are dangerous places.     

497
00:25:30,904 --> 00:25:32,865
 Pelton: Tell him I have           
     a gift for him.                

498
00:25:32,906 --> 00:25:35,367
    I know he's been                
      working hard,                 

499
00:25:35,409 --> 00:25:36,869
 and he wants to relax.            

500
00:25:36,910 --> 00:25:39,621
      Pelton: So what I did was     
   basically hang out with Dostum. 

501
00:25:39,663 --> 00:25:43,000
 This is special medicine.         

502
00:25:43,041 --> 00:25:45,002
          And he had these          
    Special Forces guys with him.   

503
00:25:45,043 --> 00:25:46,795
       They lived in a house.       

504
00:25:46,837 --> 00:25:48,839
     And Dostum has a cameraman.    

505
00:25:48,881 --> 00:25:50,883
   He just films everything 24/7.   

506
00:25:50,924 --> 00:25:54,428
    And he showed me this video.    
   He says, "American, American."   

507
00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:56,346
        And so I go to Bill,        
          who's the medic,          

508
00:25:56,388 --> 00:25:57,723
    I said, "Bill, get your shit.   

509
00:25:57,764 --> 00:25:59,600
   There's a guy at the hospital.   
         He's an American."         

510
00:25:59,641 --> 00:26:01,059
        He said, "Holy shit."       

511
00:26:01,101 --> 00:26:03,854
     So there's about four of us    
           that went down           

512
00:26:03,896 --> 00:26:05,689
       to Sheberghan hospital.      

513
00:26:05,731 --> 00:26:07,024
       It's very cold outside.      

514
00:26:07,065 --> 00:26:09,610
       And there was a little       
           receiving area,          

515
00:26:09,651 --> 00:26:12,654
      which had a little stove      
   with a little wood fire in it.   

516
00:26:12,696 --> 00:26:16,366
       And as soon as I opened      
              the door,             

517
00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:17,910
         it was like, poof,         
        it's just the stink,        

518
00:26:17,951 --> 00:26:20,746
           just the smell           
        of all these humans.        

519
00:26:20,787 --> 00:26:22,831
         And it's everything        
          you can imagine.          

520
00:26:22,873 --> 00:26:24,416
        And I'm like, "Whoa."       

521
00:26:24,458 --> 00:26:26,335
      And I mean, it's gangrene     
       and it's fecal matter.       

522
00:26:26,376 --> 00:26:31,006
        It's sweat. It's B.O.       
        It's just like, "Oh."       

523
00:26:31,048 --> 00:26:34,509
 it looked like somebody had made 
    people up for a horror show.    

524
00:26:34,551 --> 00:26:37,262
      I mean, you know, because     
    they had black on their faces   

525
00:26:37,304 --> 00:26:38,430
    and their hair was like this    

526
00:26:38,472 --> 00:26:41,058
          and their clothes         
          were all raggedy.         

527
00:26:41,099 --> 00:26:42,768
           It looked like           
         some zombie movie.         

528
00:26:42,809 --> 00:26:44,353
               I mean,              
     and I've seen lots of war.     

529
00:26:44,394 --> 00:26:46,063
          And I just like,          
           "This is weird"          

530
00:26:46,104 --> 00:26:49,066
     because they're not wounded    
               per se.              

531
00:26:49,107 --> 00:26:51,610
 Man: What is your name?           
    American's name.                

532
00:26:51,652 --> 00:26:53,862
          Huh?                      
          John?                     

533
00:26:53,904 --> 00:26:55,447
   The father's name?               

534
00:26:56,323 --> 00:26:58,575
         Lindh?                     
     Where you from?                

535
00:26:58,617 --> 00:27:00,744
            [ Inaudible ]           

536
00:27:00,786 --> 00:27:02,120
    Washington, D.C.?               

537
00:27:02,162 --> 00:27:04,665
       Which part                   
 of Washington, D.C.?              

538
00:27:04,706 --> 00:27:07,251
               North.               
     Huh?                           

539
00:27:07,292 --> 00:27:09,878
       Which part                   
 of Washington, D.C.?              

540
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,589
 Open your eyes, huh?              

541
00:27:12,631 --> 00:27:13,715
                   Northwest.       

542
00:27:13,757 --> 00:27:15,425
   What?                            
                   Northwest.       

543
00:27:15,467 --> 00:27:16,760
       Northwest?                   

544
00:27:16,802 --> 00:27:19,179
        Northwest Washington, D.C. 
 No, no.                           

545
00:27:19,221 --> 00:27:22,266
   How many months ago              
 you come in Afghanistan?          

546
00:27:22,307 --> 00:27:24,101
   Pelton: Can I -- Can I ask him   
           the questions?           

547
00:27:24,142 --> 00:27:27,646
 Hey, John, this is Robert Pelton 
           from CNN News.           

548
00:27:27,688 --> 00:27:29,815
                      Yeah.         

549
00:27:29,856 --> 00:27:31,650
    Where -- where were you born?   

550
00:27:35,028 --> 00:27:37,114
          What?                     
          Huh?                      

551
00:27:37,155 --> 00:27:38,782
                Washington, D.C.    

552
00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:40,325
          Washington, D.C.?         

553
00:27:40,367 --> 00:27:43,912
           Can you tell us          
   if you have family in America?   

554
00:27:46,164 --> 00:27:48,667
       And what is your mother      
         and father's name?         

555
00:27:48,709 --> 00:27:49,751
                  [ Mumbling ]      

556
00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:51,253
          Huh?                      

557
00:27:51,295 --> 00:27:53,588
        What is your mother's       
         and father's name?         

558
00:27:57,050 --> 00:27:58,677
             I'm sorry?             

559
00:27:58,719 --> 00:28:01,513
     We want to contact them to     
 let you know you're still alive. 

560
00:28:03,223 --> 00:28:04,391
                Yes.                

561
00:28:04,433 --> 00:28:06,852
       Oh, we want to contact       
            your parents            

562
00:28:06,893 --> 00:28:10,188
    to let you -- let them know     
        you're still alive.         

563
00:28:14,943 --> 00:28:18,030
     You want -- Okay. You want     
      to talk to the Red Cross?     

564
00:28:24,953 --> 00:28:27,331
        So you want to speak        
         to the Red Cross?          

565
00:28:36,381 --> 00:28:39,134
           Would you like           
      an American-trained medic     

566
00:28:39,176 --> 00:28:41,470
          to look at you?           

567
00:28:41,511 --> 00:28:43,472
                John?               

568
00:28:44,264 --> 00:28:45,807
    Yes, they're here right now.    

569
00:28:45,849 --> 00:28:47,726
     What injuries do you have?     

570
00:28:52,564 --> 00:28:54,232
         Okay, so they have         
           your permission          

571
00:28:54,274 --> 00:28:56,151
    to take care of your wounds.    

572
00:28:58,195 --> 00:28:59,780
              Alright.              

573
00:28:59,821 --> 00:29:01,573
    So when I'm talking to Lindh,   
 the first thing I'm thinking is, 

574
00:29:01,615 --> 00:29:03,116
      "Okay, there's two things     
          are gonna happen.         

575
00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:05,535
     One is I've got to get him     
               a phone              

576
00:29:05,577 --> 00:29:09,289
    so he can talk to his parents   
     and tell him where he is."     

577
00:29:09,331 --> 00:29:11,792
        I was very concerned        
      about his disappearance,      

578
00:29:11,833 --> 00:29:13,418
       that he just, "Whoosh."      

579
00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:15,629
      Whether it be the Afghans     
    that did it or the Americans.   

580
00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:18,507
   And the second thing is, I got   
    to get him medical attention    

581
00:29:18,548 --> 00:29:20,175
   because they were just leaving   
       these guys on the floor      

582
00:29:20,217 --> 00:29:22,511
   and he was hypothermic, passing 
    in and out of consciousness.    

583
00:29:22,552 --> 00:29:24,054
              They want to put him 
                in another room.    

584
00:29:24,096 --> 00:29:25,764
       Okay, great, excellent.      

585
00:29:25,806 --> 00:29:27,224
    [ Indistinct conversations ]    

586
00:29:27,265 --> 00:29:29,851
        We're at the hospital       
           in Sheberghan,           

587
00:29:29,893 --> 00:29:33,313
    where they keep the wounded.    

588
00:29:33,355 --> 00:29:36,525
   And an American has been found   
           in the basement          

589
00:29:36,566 --> 00:29:38,860
       of Qala-i-Jangi prison       
          and brought here.         

590
00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:41,154
                Wray:               
     When you ask yourself why,     

591
00:29:41,196 --> 00:29:45,575
   what is it that differentiates   
             this story             

592
00:29:45,617 --> 00:29:48,203
          from any of many          
          other narratives          

593
00:29:48,245 --> 00:29:50,372
         that have come out         
      of these years and years      

594
00:29:50,414 --> 00:29:52,707
       and years of conflict?       

595
00:29:52,749 --> 00:29:58,130
 It really comes down to the fact 
     that this was one of ours.     

596
00:29:58,171 --> 00:30:01,216
            It comes down           
       to the idea of treason.      

597
00:30:01,258 --> 00:30:06,471
        Why is treason worse        
        than any other crime?       

598
00:30:06,513 --> 00:30:09,474
      What is it about treason      
       that makes it something      

599
00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:12,561
          that we all feel          
       such loathing towards?       

600
00:30:12,602 --> 00:30:16,690
        I mean, I can feel...       
         the reasons for it,        

601
00:30:16,731 --> 00:30:20,152
       but I can't necessarily      
        intellectually grasp        

602
00:30:20,193 --> 00:30:21,862
         the reasons for it.        

603
00:30:21,903 --> 00:30:25,866
     I mean, in some ways, maybe    
    it comes down to this idea of   

604
00:30:25,907 --> 00:30:31,455
      "We expected this of you      
      and instead you did this.     

605
00:30:31,496 --> 00:30:33,665
 We were relying on you for this, 

606
00:30:33,707 --> 00:30:36,001
         but instead you did        
         this other thing."         

607
00:30:36,042 --> 00:30:38,795
     But who was relying on John    
    Walker Lindh, on this kid --    

608
00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,965
          this teenage kid          
      from Northern California,     

609
00:30:42,007 --> 00:30:47,679
      who played no role of any     
       significance in society      

610
00:30:47,721 --> 00:30:51,516
    or even as far as I can tell,   
      in his circle of friends,     

611
00:30:51,558 --> 00:30:53,727
       insofar as he had any?       

612
00:30:53,768 --> 00:30:56,771
     What on earth did we expect    
        of John Walker Lindh        

613
00:30:56,813 --> 00:30:58,773
       that he didn't give us?      

614
00:31:01,485 --> 00:31:03,361
 [ Man speaking Arabic ]           

615
00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:08,366
     Pelton: And there was this     
           moment of shock          

616
00:31:08,408 --> 00:31:11,703
              where one             
      of the Afghan doctors --      

617
00:31:11,745 --> 00:31:14,873
      You could see this round      
             impression             

618
00:31:14,915 --> 00:31:16,333
     of something in his pocket,    

619
00:31:16,374 --> 00:31:17,834
 and we all sort of involuntarily 
            all went back           

620
00:31:17,876 --> 00:31:19,794
         because it's about         
        the size of a grenade       

621
00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:21,880
       that they were blowing       
         themselves up with.        

622
00:31:21,922 --> 00:31:23,882
         And I suddenly went        
     from being like, you know,     

623
00:31:23,924 --> 00:31:26,092
     guy trying to help somebody    
            to thinking,            

624
00:31:26,134 --> 00:31:29,346
 "Oh, Jesus, how stupid you are." 

625
00:31:29,387 --> 00:31:31,723
 What is this?                     
                Huh?                

626
00:31:33,433 --> 00:31:35,644
         Orange?                    
   [ Speaking Arabic ]              

627
00:31:38,063 --> 00:31:40,732
                Wray:               
       I think that John Lindh      

628
00:31:40,774 --> 00:31:43,527
          very desperately          
      wanted medical attention.     

629
00:31:43,568 --> 00:31:46,571
           I think he knew          
         he was in trouble.         

630
00:31:46,613 --> 00:31:50,951
    And in spite of the desperate   
      nature of his situation,      

631
00:31:50,992 --> 00:31:54,120
     and in spite of how easy it    
   would have been to simply say,   

632
00:31:54,162 --> 00:31:56,623
   "I'm an American, please get me 
        out of here, please.        

633
00:31:56,665 --> 00:31:59,251
      I'd like to be airlifted      
          out of here now,"         

634
00:31:59,292 --> 00:32:00,585
        he did no such thing.       

635
00:32:00,627 --> 00:32:01,836
      Pelton: John,                 
    is there some way               

636
00:32:01,878 --> 00:32:03,171
 we can contact your parents       
        for you?                    

637
00:32:03,213 --> 00:32:04,756
   You have a number?               

638
00:32:07,926 --> 00:32:10,595
          CNN.                      
   News organization.               

639
00:32:14,641 --> 00:32:16,935
 Okay, that's not a concern        
       right now.                   

640
00:32:16,977 --> 00:32:19,354
     Our concern is                 
      your welfare.                 

641
00:32:23,775 --> 00:32:25,068
          Okay.                     

642
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:28,238
      Pelton: And he says, "No.     
       I don't care, though."       

643
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,948
              I mean...             

644
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:31,783
            [ Chuckles ]            

645
00:32:31,825 --> 00:32:33,785
         If you're gonna be         
         a war photographer         

646
00:32:33,827 --> 00:32:35,954
         and ask everybody,         
         "Hey, excuse, guys,        

647
00:32:35,996 --> 00:32:37,122
       can I take a shot here?      

648
00:32:37,163 --> 00:32:38,832
              Not yet.              
       Don't bayonet that guy.      

649
00:32:38,873 --> 00:32:40,750
          Can I just -- can         
       I get the new lens...?"      

650
00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:42,419
    No, it doesn't work that way.   

651
00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:43,753
       Shit happens, you roll.      

652
00:32:43,795 --> 00:32:46,756
        And whether he wants        
        to be filmed or not,        

653
00:32:46,798 --> 00:32:48,466
   we're all in the war together,   
            I'm rollin',            

654
00:32:48,508 --> 00:32:50,427
       you don't have to talk.      

655
00:32:50,468 --> 00:32:52,262
 Blow yourself up for all I care. 

656
00:32:52,304 --> 00:32:53,430
      I'll still keep rolling.      

657
00:32:53,471 --> 00:32:56,016
 John, where does it hurt?         

658
00:33:00,770 --> 00:33:01,813
      Okay, Abdul.                  

659
00:33:01,855 --> 00:33:02,981
            Abdul Hamid.            

660
00:33:03,023 --> 00:33:04,065
   Okay, Abdul Hamid.               

661
00:33:04,107 --> 00:33:06,693
    My name is Bill.                

662
00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:11,489
      You ever had                  
     an I.V. before?                

663
00:33:14,659 --> 00:33:17,787
         Really?                    

664
00:33:17,829 --> 00:33:19,331
     Since you have                 
     been fighting,                 

665
00:33:19,372 --> 00:33:20,665
 you've had many I.V.s?            

666
00:33:23,793 --> 00:33:25,837
    How old are you,                
      Abdul Hamid?                  

667
00:33:27,464 --> 00:33:28,965
 You're 20 years old?              

668
00:33:29,007 --> 00:33:31,843
          Pelton: Abdul, can I ask 
            how you ended up here? 

669
00:33:34,888 --> 00:33:36,473
              I'd love to hear it. 

670
00:33:36,514 --> 00:33:39,684
 The I.V. I'm giving you,          
    it has calories.                

671
00:33:39,726 --> 00:33:41,728
 It'll give you some energy.       
        Alright?                    

672
00:33:41,770 --> 00:33:43,355
   It'll also replace               
    some of the blood               

673
00:33:43,396 --> 00:33:45,315
 that you may have lost.           

674
00:33:45,357 --> 00:33:46,983
        Let's see                   
 the rest of your wounds.          

675
00:33:48,193 --> 00:33:51,404
 You said that you have            
 a bullet wound in your leg?       

676
00:33:54,741 --> 00:33:57,077
 The bullet is probably            
   still inside there.              

677
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:10,799
          Okay.                     

678
00:34:12,384 --> 00:34:14,761
 How long ago was this?            

679
00:34:17,555 --> 00:34:19,891
   A week in the past?              
                Yeah.               

680
00:34:22,102 --> 00:34:24,396
         You have a slight accent. 

681
00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:31,319
                 How did you get    
                 to Afghanistan?    

682
00:35:01,641 --> 00:35:03,351
                   Do you have      
               any military skills 

683
00:35:03,393 --> 00:35:04,644
              or you just were...? 

684
00:35:06,104 --> 00:35:08,356
    Pelton: This one singular guy   
             after 9/11             

685
00:35:08,398 --> 00:35:10,692
 was the face of everything evil. 

686
00:35:10,734 --> 00:35:12,694
           And, you know,           
    Qala-i-Jangi was part of that   

687
00:35:12,736 --> 00:35:15,613
         because the setting        
           was so brutal,           

688
00:35:15,655 --> 00:35:19,576
        it almost seemed like       
    it was 9/11 redux, you know?    

689
00:35:19,617 --> 00:35:21,453
           After this is all done, 
                how do you feel?    

690
00:35:21,494 --> 00:35:23,788
                  You feel like     
               you were sort of... 

691
00:35:23,830 --> 00:35:25,623
           you did the right thing 
                    or...           

692
00:35:28,168 --> 00:35:29,419
             Well, do you feel now 

693
00:35:29,461 --> 00:35:31,546
               after there's been   
               a number of losses   

694
00:35:31,588 --> 00:35:33,631
            on the Taliban side... 

695
00:35:39,929 --> 00:35:41,598
         Mm-hmm. Could you explain 
                   that to me       

696
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:43,558
                because I'm very    
               interested in that? 

697
00:35:46,853 --> 00:35:51,983
                                   

698
00:36:56,089 --> 00:36:57,966
         Were you with the Taliban 
                  all the time      

699
00:36:58,007 --> 00:37:00,218
                or were you doing   
                 something else?    

700
00:37:16,276 --> 00:37:18,736
        [ Yelling in Arabic ]       

701
00:37:24,701 --> 00:37:27,036
     Where you from?                

702
00:37:27,078 --> 00:37:28,913
    Where you from?                 

703
00:37:32,458 --> 00:37:34,002
        Pakistan?                   

704
00:37:34,043 --> 00:37:40,425
                                   

705
00:37:40,466 --> 00:37:47,515
                                   

706
00:37:55,148 --> 00:37:57,108
 Bill: I'm giving you              
   morphine now, okay?              

707
00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:58,693
 It's gonna take away              
   a lot of the pain.               

708
00:37:58,735 --> 00:38:00,612
            -Happy juice.           
             -[ Sighs ]             

709
00:38:05,408 --> 00:38:07,285
            ...so as soon           
          as we arrived...          

710
00:38:24,093 --> 00:38:25,303
            [ Explosion ]           

711
00:38:25,345 --> 00:38:32,435
                                   

712
00:38:32,477 --> 00:38:39,984
                                   

713
00:38:56,501 --> 00:38:58,378
      Pelton: Keep in mind that     
     there's two kinds of people    

714
00:38:58,419 --> 00:39:00,129
         in that basement --        

715
00:39:00,171 --> 00:39:01,923
     "Okay, I lost, game's over.    
   [Hands clap] Time to go home."   

716
00:39:01,965 --> 00:39:04,926
 And there were people who wanted 
         to kill Americans.         

717
00:39:04,968 --> 00:39:06,427
 Man #2: Why do you come           
     to Afghanistan?                

718
00:39:06,469 --> 00:39:12,558
          I come from jihad         
    against the terrorism of USA.   

719
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,268
        We are not surrender.       

720
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:16,187
       We are not surrender.        

721
00:39:16,229 --> 00:39:18,356
 No, you're prisoners.             

722
00:39:18,398 --> 00:39:19,774
       Yeah, it's no problem.       

723
00:39:19,816 --> 00:39:21,693
    All is fair in love and war.    

724
00:39:23,152 --> 00:39:27,365
   Pelton: So they pushed all 460   
    guys down into this basement    

725
00:39:27,407 --> 00:39:29,784
      and down in the basement      
     are five rooms, basically.     

726
00:39:29,826 --> 00:39:31,786
        There's an entry way,       
      you come down the stairs      

727
00:39:31,828 --> 00:39:33,913
    and then there's like, room,    
          room, room, room,         

728
00:39:33,955 --> 00:39:35,790
       and there's a big room       
             in the back            

729
00:39:35,832 --> 00:39:37,333
      with a couple of alcoves.     

730
00:39:37,375 --> 00:39:41,963
      And what I learned later      
          from interviewing         

731
00:39:42,005 --> 00:39:44,298
             the people             
      that were in the basement     

732
00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:46,384
    was that basically the Arabs    
        and the Arab speaking       

733
00:39:46,426 --> 00:39:48,886
        went to the back room       
 because there were more of them. 

734
00:39:48,928 --> 00:39:50,722
   There were Russians, there was   
         Sudanese, whatever.        

735
00:39:50,763 --> 00:39:53,057
    And these guys are al-Qaeda.    

736
00:39:53,099 --> 00:39:56,060
     They were all Arab-speaking    
       volunteers who had met       

737
00:39:56,102 --> 00:39:58,479
          many other places         
        all around the world.       

738
00:39:58,521 --> 00:40:00,815
        And I thought, "Wow,        
       this is the hard core.       

739
00:40:00,857 --> 00:40:02,734
         These are the guys         
       that came here to die."      

740
00:40:02,775 --> 00:40:05,903
   And then the Pakistanis sort of 
      stayed in the side rooms      

741
00:40:05,945 --> 00:40:07,405
      and that the conversation     

742
00:40:07,447 --> 00:40:09,824
    was basically the Pakistanis    
         wanted to go home.         

743
00:40:09,866 --> 00:40:11,909
             "Hey, guys,            
     don't cause any problems."     

744
00:40:11,951 --> 00:40:13,411
           And the Saudis           
         and the foreigners         

745
00:40:13,453 --> 00:40:15,621
      who were speaking Arabic      
      were trying to figure out     

746
00:40:15,663 --> 00:40:17,248
             what to do,            
        and they had weapons.       

747
00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:19,584
       They had these grenades      
    they brought down with them,    

748
00:40:19,625 --> 00:40:23,087
         which they -- which        
     they used shoelaces to tie     

749
00:40:23,129 --> 00:40:25,131
    and then dangle right around    
            their crotch            

750
00:40:25,173 --> 00:40:26,382
          because they knew         

751
00:40:26,424 --> 00:40:29,719
    that they wouldn't be patted    
           in the crotch.           

752
00:40:29,761 --> 00:40:31,721
       So they spent the night      
             down there.            

753
00:40:31,763 --> 00:40:33,097
      And then the next morning     

754
00:40:33,139 --> 00:40:36,768
      is when most people think     
          of the uprising.          

755
00:40:36,809 --> 00:40:39,228
             I mean, um,            

756
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:41,564
         the war seemed more        
            or less over.           

757
00:40:41,606 --> 00:40:45,735
    All of us, we had the feeling   
         we missed the war.         

758
00:40:45,777 --> 00:40:48,237
     Where you from?                

759
00:40:48,279 --> 00:40:49,989
    Where you from?                 

760
00:40:51,657 --> 00:40:52,950
                 May we ask you     
                   a question?      

761
00:40:52,992 --> 00:40:54,952
     [ Horn honking repeatedly ]    

762
00:40:54,994 --> 00:40:56,704
           [ Speaks indistinctly ] 
 No.                               

763
00:40:56,746 --> 00:40:58,039
                   No cameras.      
 Can we ask...                     

764
00:40:58,081 --> 00:41:00,541
      No questions?                 
 [ Speaks indistinctly ]           

765
00:41:00,583 --> 00:41:02,460
      Man #3: For the safety of us 
         and our family back home. 

766
00:41:02,502 --> 00:41:03,920
          Huh?                      

767
00:41:03,961 --> 00:41:06,297
              For the safety of us 
         and our family back home. 

768
00:41:06,339 --> 00:41:08,800
   Just for the safety              
 of your families back home,       

769
00:41:08,841 --> 00:41:11,803
 you don't want to talk?           
          Okay.                     

770
00:41:19,977 --> 00:41:22,522
      Stauth: I remember Dostum     
           appearing there          

771
00:41:22,563 --> 00:41:27,652
     and then telling everyone,     
    "And now let's go to Kunduz,"   

772
00:41:27,693 --> 00:41:29,487
     because the story then was     

773
00:41:29,529 --> 00:41:33,825
      10,000 remaining Taliban      
            to surrender.           

774
00:41:33,866 --> 00:41:37,662
          So the main force         
          of his warriors,          

775
00:41:37,703 --> 00:41:39,997
    they followed him to Kunduz.    

776
00:41:43,251 --> 00:41:47,880
    And they left the 500 Taliban   
        back in Qala-i-Jangi        

777
00:41:47,922 --> 00:41:52,135
        near Mazar-i-Sharif,        
      without a lot of guards.      

778
00:41:52,176 --> 00:41:54,512
    They thought this is settled.   

779
00:41:54,554 --> 00:42:00,101
                                   

780
00:42:00,143 --> 00:42:03,020
      Stauth: An Uzbek general      
      of the Northern Alliance,     

781
00:42:03,062 --> 00:42:06,482
         he had provided us         
          with a bodyguard,         

782
00:42:06,524 --> 00:42:08,442
              he said,              
   "Do you still love your wife?"   

783
00:42:08,484 --> 00:42:09,694
         And I said, "Yes."         

784
00:42:09,735 --> 00:42:11,612
        "Then better don't go       
             to Kunduz."            

785
00:42:11,654 --> 00:42:16,868
                                   

786
00:42:16,909 --> 00:42:18,619
       [ Man singing in Arabic      
             on radio ]             

787
00:42:18,661 --> 00:42:20,163
   With my cameraman and producer, 

788
00:42:20,204 --> 00:42:23,332
   we went back to the small hotel 

789
00:42:23,374 --> 00:42:27,211
    where most of the journalists   
         at the time stayed.        

790
00:42:27,253 --> 00:42:30,214
     [Music from radio, honking,    
          whistle tooting]          

791
00:42:30,256 --> 00:42:39,015
                                   

792
00:42:39,056 --> 00:42:47,398
                                   

793
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,401
       I mean, we went to bed       
   the 24th with a feeling, okay,   

794
00:42:50,443 --> 00:42:53,863
        everyone's gonna have       
     a story, we won't have one.    

795
00:42:55,448 --> 00:43:00,077
    We had a long sleep and then    
    we sat together on the floor    

796
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:03,164
        having tea and bread        
       and we thought, "Okay,       

797
00:43:03,206 --> 00:43:05,750
          what are we going         
        to do with this day?"       

798
00:43:05,791 --> 00:43:07,543
           [ Horn honks ]           

799
00:43:07,585 --> 00:43:12,089
     "Why not go to Qala-i-Jangi    
   and meet the prisoners again?"   

800
00:43:12,131 --> 00:43:14,592
        No other journalists        
           would be there,          

801
00:43:14,634 --> 00:43:17,094
    but I'll be on the safe side.   

802
00:43:21,307 --> 00:43:23,434
          As a journalist,          

803
00:43:23,476 --> 00:43:27,563
   you're used to speed up things   
          and that morning,         

804
00:43:27,605 --> 00:43:30,274
       very, very fortunately,      
           we took it easy          

805
00:43:30,316 --> 00:43:33,736
         because we thought         
      we wouldn't have a story      

806
00:43:33,778 --> 00:43:35,446
    and we wasted a lot of time.    

807
00:43:35,488 --> 00:43:39,909
   And this wasted time in the end 
      probably saved our lives.     

808
00:43:39,951 --> 00:43:41,410
      There was another issue,      

809
00:43:41,452 --> 00:43:43,996
              problem,              
     which caused some of this.     

810
00:43:44,038 --> 00:43:47,458
      U.S. forces seize control     
          of Mazar-i-Sharif         

811
00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:48,501
        with General Dostum.        

812
00:43:48,542 --> 00:43:50,127
       And our team leader up       
            in the north,           

813
00:43:50,169 --> 00:43:53,464
            the CIA guy,            
   he goes with Dostum to Kunduz.   

814
00:43:53,506 --> 00:43:56,300
             Dostum now             
     has an eight-man CIA team.     

815
00:43:56,342 --> 00:43:58,761
 There's another commander there, 
           Commander Atta.          

816
00:43:58,803 --> 00:44:00,763
      So they make the decision     
        to take that CIA team       

817
00:44:00,805 --> 00:44:02,056
         and cut it in half.        

818
00:44:02,098 --> 00:44:03,266
     Half of it goes with Dostum    

819
00:44:03,307 --> 00:44:04,850
         and the other half         
           goes with Atta.          

820
00:44:04,892 --> 00:44:08,479
        So now you don't have       
    the same level of leadership    

821
00:44:08,521 --> 00:44:11,983
         and decision-making        
        and even capability.        

822
00:44:12,024 --> 00:44:14,610
    So Mike Spann and Dave Tyson    

823
00:44:14,652 --> 00:44:17,655
 were the guys that are off there 
        kind of on their own.       

824
00:44:17,697 --> 00:44:24,245
                                   

825
00:44:24,287 --> 00:44:26,163
     And they drive from Kunduz     

826
00:44:26,205 --> 00:44:29,292
     across northern Afghanistan    
          to Qala-i-Jangi,          

827
00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:32,003
              which is              
     this giant fortress prison.    

828
00:44:34,213 --> 00:44:38,342
       Stauth: So about 11:00,      
      we left for Qala-i-Jangi.     

829
00:44:38,384 --> 00:44:42,346
      Bernsten: Qala-i-Jangi is     
        an 1894 Vauban fort.        

830
00:44:42,388 --> 00:44:45,683
    Qala-i-Jangi is out of time.    

831
00:44:45,725 --> 00:44:49,520
      Qala-i-Jangi is a citadel     
            made of mud.            

832
00:44:49,562 --> 00:44:51,522
    Bernsten: It's not like real    
       Vauban fort with stone.      

833
00:44:51,564 --> 00:44:53,858
     It's made out of a cow poop    
         and mud, whatever.         

834
00:44:53,899 --> 00:44:55,318
      It was quite impressive.      

835
00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:57,361
             Degueldre:             
       The walls are so thick.      

836
00:44:57,403 --> 00:45:01,699
       Everything is a little       
            bit...unreal.           

837
00:45:03,993 --> 00:45:06,579
    Stauth: As we were not under    
       any pressure time-wise,      

838
00:45:06,620 --> 00:45:08,998
            my cameraman            
       and the Uzbek producer,      

839
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,126
        they wanted to smoke        
            a cigarette.            

840
00:45:12,168 --> 00:45:14,837
      So we were waiting there,     
        the sun was shining,        

841
00:45:14,879 --> 00:45:18,049
      the birds were singing --     
      a very peaceful setting.      

842
00:45:18,090 --> 00:45:21,385
        And 10 minutes later,       

843
00:45:21,427 --> 00:45:24,138
         we would have been         
          in that courtyard         

844
00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:25,890
     to interview the prisoners.    

845
00:45:25,931 --> 00:45:34,398
                                   

846
00:45:57,505 --> 00:46:05,513
                                   

847
00:46:05,554 --> 00:46:06,889
              Bernsten:             
        Let me just say this,       

848
00:46:06,931 --> 00:46:08,599
      there were no procedures      
              for that.             

849
00:46:08,641 --> 00:46:11,394
   I don't think anybody had been   
      trained on what do you do     

850
00:46:11,435 --> 00:46:13,896
       on an open battlefield       
           where people --          

851
00:46:13,938 --> 00:46:15,815
         They had to assess         
     the situation on the ground    

852
00:46:15,856 --> 00:46:17,358
        and make a decision.        

853
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,112
       So Spann and Dave Tyson      
       are not as experienced;      

854
00:46:21,153 --> 00:46:23,114
         they're brave men.         

855
00:46:23,155 --> 00:46:25,366
 Spann had been a Marine officer. 

856
00:46:25,408 --> 00:46:28,702
       The decision they made       
    put themselves in grave risk.   

857
00:46:28,744 --> 00:46:31,205
               Pelton:              
    Mike Spann and Dave Tyson --    

858
00:46:31,247 --> 00:46:32,957
    their goal was to find people   

859
00:46:32,998 --> 00:46:34,291
       that could provide them      
             with intel.            

860
00:46:34,333 --> 00:46:35,626
        And they were looking       
           for bin Laden.           

861
00:46:35,668 --> 00:46:37,628
          They were looking         
       for bin Laden's group.       

862
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:40,756
    So once again, we're back in    
   that whole who's who, you know? 

863
00:46:40,798 --> 00:46:43,217
         You've got Taliban,        
         you've got Uzbeks,         

864
00:46:43,259 --> 00:46:45,636
   you've got good guys, bad guys, 
              whatever.             

865
00:46:45,678 --> 00:46:47,388
     And somebody -- and nobody     
        knows who that is --        

866
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:48,973
        was actually filming.       

867
00:46:49,014 --> 00:46:50,641
          See?                      
    He's a terrorist.               

868
00:46:50,683 --> 00:46:52,059
                Yes.                

869
00:46:52,101 --> 00:46:54,395
        These men                   
     are terrorists.                

870
00:46:54,437 --> 00:46:55,938
        These men                   
     are terrorists.                

871
00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:57,314
      All these men                 
     are terrorists.                

872
00:46:57,356 --> 00:46:58,691
     I think you're                 
      a terrorist.                  

873
00:46:58,732 --> 00:47:01,777
 You come here to Afghanistan      
     to kill people.                

874
00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:04,155
           I don't -- I...          

875
00:47:04,196 --> 00:47:06,740
          Okay.                     
 You want to talk to him?          

876
00:47:06,782 --> 00:47:09,452
         Okay. I'm with you.        
 Okay. Thank you.                  

877
00:47:09,493 --> 00:47:11,829
         I'm with you and --        
             Wait. Wait.            

878
00:47:11,871 --> 00:47:14,665
    [ Indistinct conversations ]    

879
00:47:20,212 --> 00:47:24,049
       Pelton: When Spann was       
        asking the prisoners,       

880
00:47:24,091 --> 00:47:25,217
    "Does anybody speak English?"   

881
00:47:25,259 --> 00:47:27,052
            which sounds            
       like a comedy routine.       

882
00:47:27,094 --> 00:47:28,679
           He said, "Yeah,          
        there's an Irishman.        

883
00:47:28,721 --> 00:47:31,682
      So then that's how Lindh      
    got picked out of the lineup.   

884
00:47:33,893 --> 00:47:37,480
     The fact that Mike and Dave    
     had this blanket spread out    

885
00:47:37,521 --> 00:47:41,317
       in full view, like, 400      
 terrified or angry people was -- 

886
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:44,278
     It just meant there wasn't     
           somebody there           

887
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:45,696
         providing security.        

888
00:47:45,738 --> 00:47:47,114
      The Afghans didn't care.      

889
00:47:58,584 --> 00:48:00,419
        It was a major breach       
    of what you're supposed to do   

890
00:48:00,461 --> 00:48:02,922
    when you question prisoners,    
       I mean, that's obvious.      

891
00:48:02,963 --> 00:48:05,090
   You normally select a prisoner, 

892
00:48:05,132 --> 00:48:07,885
            take him away           
        to another facility.        

893
00:48:07,927 --> 00:48:08,969
      You have security there.      

894
00:48:09,011 --> 00:48:10,221
   You do whatever you have to do. 

895
00:48:10,262 --> 00:48:11,764
      You don't show your face.     

896
00:48:12,473 --> 00:48:14,350
 [ Speaks indistinctly ]           

897
00:48:18,646 --> 00:48:20,439
       He's just sitting there      
       with his hair flopped.       

898
00:48:20,481 --> 00:48:23,234
       He's not saying a word       
    and Spann is talking to him.    

899
00:48:23,275 --> 00:48:24,527
         Maybe not the most         
           diplomatic way,          

900
00:48:24,568 --> 00:48:26,362
   but he's clearly communicating   

901
00:48:26,403 --> 00:48:28,322
           that he's with           
       the American government      

902
00:48:28,364 --> 00:48:30,324
      and that he can help them     
            or whatever.            

903
00:48:30,366 --> 00:48:32,535
         And he's just mute.        
         He's mute, silent.         

904
00:48:32,576 --> 00:48:35,746
   Keep in mind, he had just been   
          in that basement.         

905
00:48:35,788 --> 00:48:38,249
    And I'm not gonna accuse him    
     of being part of the plot,     

906
00:48:38,290 --> 00:48:41,252
      but that basement was way     
   too small and he spoke Arabic.   

907
00:48:41,293 --> 00:48:43,087
         And there is no way        
         that he didn't know        

908
00:48:43,128 --> 00:48:44,421
      what was about to happen.     

909
00:49:24,295 --> 00:49:26,880
     Alison: He sealed his fate     
          in those moments          

910
00:49:26,922 --> 00:49:30,050
    when he chose to stay silent    
         and not say a word.        

911
00:49:30,092 --> 00:49:31,927
   He sealed his fate as a traitor 

912
00:49:31,969 --> 00:49:35,306
       and he sealed his fate       
   as someone who was responsible   

913
00:49:35,347 --> 00:49:39,643
     for the death of Mike Spann    
             in my eyes.            

914
00:49:39,685 --> 00:49:41,437
       That's all the evidence      
               I need.              

915
00:49:41,478 --> 00:49:45,774
         That's accessory...        
          at bare minimum.          

916
00:49:46,984 --> 00:49:50,446
 You will never make me believe    
         that he didn't know        

917
00:49:50,487 --> 00:49:52,656
           what was going           
         to happen that day,        

918
00:49:52,698 --> 00:49:54,491
         and you will never         
           make me believe          

919
00:49:54,533 --> 00:49:57,244
     that he didn't have a part     
         in my dad's death.         

920
00:50:22,561 --> 00:50:25,022
          -It's gonna hurt.         
            -They, uh...            

921
00:50:38,744 --> 00:50:40,537
             And, uh...             

922
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:44,875
      [ Man yelling in Arabic ]     

923
00:50:44,917 --> 00:50:47,503
       There was a -- a bang,       
            some yelling,           

924
00:50:47,544 --> 00:50:49,046
   and then the tape goes to blue. 
          [ Hands scrape ]          

925
00:50:49,088 --> 00:50:51,423
      I've never figured out --     
       I was told two stories.      

926
00:50:51,465 --> 00:50:53,634
        One is that the tape        
            keeps rolling           

927
00:50:53,676 --> 00:50:55,427
     and that somebody erased it    

928
00:50:55,469 --> 00:50:56,887
        or that, no, the tape       
          just goes to blue         

929
00:50:56,929 --> 00:50:58,806
       because the camera fell      
      [Hands clap] or whatever.     

930
00:50:58,847 --> 00:51:01,725
            But that tape           
      was being shopped around.     

931
00:51:01,767 --> 00:51:03,394
            My cameraman,           
      for some strange reason,      

932
00:51:03,435 --> 00:51:04,520
     told the guy to bugger off.    

933
00:51:04,561 --> 00:51:06,522
    He didn't want to buy a tape.   

934
00:51:06,563 --> 00:51:09,525
     And I was tasked by Dostum     
        to go find that tape        

935
00:51:09,566 --> 00:51:10,984
          because that was          
        his intelligence tape       

936
00:51:11,026 --> 00:51:14,071
         and that might show        
     who did whatever happened.     

937
00:51:14,113 --> 00:51:15,698
        Well, in that event,        

938
00:51:15,739 --> 00:51:20,369
     that bang, that scuffle was    
      Mike Spann being killed.      

939
00:51:20,411 --> 00:51:22,746
      [ Man yelling in Arabic ]     

940
00:51:23,997 --> 00:51:26,792
       [ Explosion, gunfire ]       

941
00:51:31,004 --> 00:51:33,882
        [ Gunfire continues ]       

942
00:52:04,663 --> 00:52:07,750
 Pelton: So how did you --         
     You were there.                

943
00:52:07,791 --> 00:52:10,043
 Did you run -- did you stay       
       in the basement?             

944
00:52:15,799 --> 00:52:17,301
             [ Gunfire ]            

945
00:52:17,342 --> 00:52:18,886
               Stauth:              
       I grabbed my sat phone       

946
00:52:18,927 --> 00:52:22,556
   and ran into the main building   
            for shelter.            

947
00:52:26,101 --> 00:52:27,603
             [ Gunfire ]            

948
00:52:27,644 --> 00:52:30,481
        I set up my sat phone       
            on the ground           

949
00:52:30,522 --> 00:52:32,524
      to make some phone calls      
             to Germany.            

950
00:52:32,566 --> 00:52:35,152
 [ Speaks indistinctly ]           

951
00:52:35,194 --> 00:52:37,529
             [ Gunfire ]            

952
00:52:43,410 --> 00:52:46,205
        [ Gunfire continues ]       

953
00:53:16,568 --> 00:53:18,695
       [ All speaking Arabic ]      

954
00:53:23,408 --> 00:53:26,954
             [ Gunfire ]            

955
00:53:28,747 --> 00:53:32,709
       And so he called using       
         my satellite phone         

956
00:53:32,751 --> 00:53:35,587
     and our camera was running     
       while he was talking.        

957
00:54:05,117 --> 00:54:07,119
        [ Gunfire continues ]       

958
00:54:12,875 --> 00:54:15,419
    Bernsten: He called the U.S.    
       embassy in Uzbekistan.       

959
00:54:15,460 --> 00:54:17,504
           It was actually          
        a pretty smart move.        

960
00:54:17,546 --> 00:54:18,881
      That's how we all learned     
             so quickly.            

961
00:54:18,922 --> 00:54:20,591
        He got on the phone         
      and made that call out.       

962
00:54:33,228 --> 00:54:34,771
        [ Gunfire continues ]       

963
00:55:04,176 --> 00:55:05,510
            Tyson: Okay.            

964
00:55:16,855 --> 00:55:19,149
    [ Indistinct conversations ]    

965
00:55:19,441 --> 00:55:23,654
          Stauth: I learned         
         through Dave Tyson         

966
00:55:23,695 --> 00:55:26,406
     that the Northern Alliance     
               forces,              

967
00:55:26,448 --> 00:55:30,827
    they were taken by surprise,    
    that they were not prepared,    

968
00:55:30,869 --> 00:55:34,873
     and there were only around     
            100 of them.            

969
00:55:35,958 --> 00:55:40,170
          And the Taliban,          
    we knew they were about 500.    

970
00:55:40,212 --> 00:55:44,132
   Then we learned that the weapon 
       storage of Qala-i-Jangi      

971
00:55:44,174 --> 00:55:47,344
        was in the courtyard        
       where the Taliban were.      

972
00:55:47,386 --> 00:55:50,180
        And then I really --        
         I started thinking,        

973
00:55:50,222 --> 00:55:53,517
    "Oh, shit, we are in trouble.   
       We're in bad trouble."       

974
00:55:53,558 --> 00:55:55,352
             [ Gunfire ]            

975
00:55:55,394 --> 00:56:02,901
                                   

976
00:56:11,785 --> 00:56:13,704
        [ Gunfire continues ]       

977
00:56:19,251 --> 00:56:23,046
            At the time,            
 I didn't know the name of Spann. 

978
00:56:25,173 --> 00:56:28,552
    I mean, there were obviously    
           dozens killed,           

979
00:56:28,593 --> 00:56:31,722
          Afghans, Taliban,         

980
00:56:31,763 --> 00:56:34,850
    and in addition, an American.   

981
00:56:34,891 --> 00:56:37,728
         I thought, "My God,        
         why did they do it?        

982
00:56:37,769 --> 00:56:39,896
     Why did they have to die?"     

983
00:56:41,606 --> 00:56:43,358
      Bernsten: Many of my guys     
     want to get on a helicopter    

984
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:44,526
          and fly up there.         

985
00:56:44,568 --> 00:56:46,862
            I tell them,            
         "No, you cannot go.        

986
00:56:46,903 --> 00:56:48,739
       The military is closer.      

987
00:56:48,780 --> 00:56:51,908
    The military is gonna help."    

988
00:56:51,950 --> 00:56:53,744
          A lot of my guys          
        were very, very close       

989
00:56:53,785 --> 00:56:57,122
    to Mike Spann and Dave Tyson,   
     and they're upset with me.     

990
00:56:57,164 --> 00:57:00,000
             [ Gunfire ]            

991
00:57:00,042 --> 00:57:03,462
     We were hoping for choppers    
         to land on the roof        

992
00:57:03,503 --> 00:57:07,132
    to happily climb the chopper    
     and get out of the chopper.    

993
00:57:07,174 --> 00:57:10,761
              Instead,              
       we saw high in the sky,      

994
00:57:10,802 --> 00:57:13,847
          the white traces          
          of fighter jets.          

995
00:57:13,889 --> 00:57:15,557
    Tyson: Hey, guys.               
    Time to go, huh?                

996
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:18,727
          It's time to go.          
            -Wait. Wait.            

997
00:57:18,769 --> 00:57:20,937
               Stauth:              
   My headquarters called my wife   

998
00:57:20,979 --> 00:57:23,690
       to tell her, "Arnim is       
      in some kind of trouble."     

999
00:57:23,732 --> 00:57:26,651
             [ Gunfire ]            

1000
00:57:26,693 --> 00:57:29,654
             [ Yelling in Arabic ] 

1001
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:33,867
           [ Explosions ]           

1002
00:57:47,839 --> 00:57:50,133
             [ Gunfire ]            

1003
00:58:03,021 --> 00:58:04,564
          Hey!                      

1004
00:58:04,606 --> 00:58:12,823
                                   

1005
00:58:12,864 --> 00:58:15,325
        [ Gunfire continues ]       

1006
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,166
      We just tried to get away     
         from this fortress         

1007
00:58:23,208 --> 00:58:26,878
         as far as possible         
     and as quickly as possible.    

1008
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,174
   And then about 500 meters away   
            under a tree,           

1009
00:58:31,216 --> 00:58:34,261
         there was a minibus        
     and the guy standing there     

1010
00:58:34,302 --> 00:58:36,763
          turned out to be          
          the press speaker         

1011
00:58:36,805 --> 00:58:38,348
         of General Dostum.         

1012
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:42,018
       And he finally took us,      
        including Dave Tyson,       

1013
00:58:42,060 --> 00:58:44,688
   took us back to Mazar-i-Sharif. 

1014
00:58:44,729 --> 00:58:46,940
       [ Gunfire in distance ]      

1015
00:58:49,401 --> 00:58:51,153
     Pelton: It was only during     
             that night             

1016
00:58:51,194 --> 00:58:52,863
     when they had night vision,    

1017
00:58:52,904 --> 00:58:54,531
    they realized that there was    
   like a central gathering point. 

1018
00:58:54,573 --> 00:58:57,325
 There was a mosque and there was 
         this pink building,        

1019
00:58:57,367 --> 00:59:00,036
    and then there were all these   
   little cubbyholes on the sides. 

1020
00:59:00,078 --> 00:59:01,913
     They were running in there     
      to grab all these weapons     

1021
00:59:01,955 --> 00:59:03,331
     and firing them at people,     
              whatever.             

1022
00:59:03,373 --> 00:59:05,542
        And it was that night       
        that people realized,       

1023
00:59:05,584 --> 00:59:07,586
    "Okay, this is a real mess."    

1024
00:59:07,627 --> 00:59:10,130
     This inverted siege begins     

1025
00:59:10,172 --> 00:59:11,882
        because not only did        
           they break out,          

1026
00:59:11,923 --> 00:59:13,049
       they overtake the army.      

1027
00:59:13,091 --> 00:59:14,384
 Now they got RPGs and heavy guns 

1028
00:59:14,426 --> 00:59:17,053
        and they're fighting        
          from the inside.          

1029
00:59:17,095 --> 00:59:19,097
    Dostum's people are fighting    
          from the outside.         

1030
00:59:19,139 --> 00:59:21,266
     Airstrikes were called in.     

1031
00:59:21,308 --> 00:59:24,686
               I mean,              
    this is a bloody knife fight    

1032
00:59:24,728 --> 00:59:28,106
 at close range for several days. 

1033
00:59:30,233 --> 00:59:32,235
      Reporter #11: By Monday,      
      the firefight so fierce,      

1034
00:59:32,277 --> 00:59:35,864
 U.S. Special Forces on the scene 
     had to call in airstrikes.     

1035
00:59:35,906 --> 00:59:37,157
            [ Explosion ]           

1036
00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:40,035
          But one U.S. bomb         
         missed its target.         

1037
00:59:40,076 --> 00:59:42,829
     Man: Turn the cameras off!     

1038
00:59:42,871 --> 00:59:44,247
        Man #5: Are you okay?       

1039
00:59:44,289 --> 00:59:45,874
      You know, as journalists,     
        we're running around        

1040
00:59:45,916 --> 00:59:47,751
       like headless chickens.      
 We have no idea what's going on. 

1041
00:59:47,792 --> 00:59:50,921
                Yeah.               
       [ Speaks indistinctly ]      

1042
00:59:50,962 --> 00:59:53,506
   Reporter #12: The bloody battle 
    may now be coming to an end.    

1043
00:59:53,548 --> 00:59:57,260
      Perry: It took forever --     
      from Sunday until Friday.     

1044
00:59:57,302 --> 01:00:01,848
 It was, you know, Groundhog Day, 
             every day.             

1045
01:00:01,890 --> 01:00:05,101
   Dan Rather: Some images of war   
       savagery have the power      

1046
01:00:05,143 --> 01:00:07,771
    to haunt and burn themselves    

1047
01:00:07,812 --> 01:00:11,358
          into the world's          
         collective memory.         

1048
01:00:11,399 --> 01:00:14,611
   Perry: It's my first experience 
             of combat.             

1049
01:00:14,653 --> 01:00:16,446
     I was totally adrenalized.     

1050
01:00:16,488 --> 01:00:18,949
    You suddenly get this kind of   
   tunnel vision of where you are. 

1051
01:00:18,990 --> 01:00:21,284
             [ Gunfire ]            

1052
01:00:21,326 --> 01:00:22,786
       Pelton: There are a lot      
         of things going on,        

1053
01:00:22,827 --> 01:00:24,788
    and there are a lot of media    
        rumors flying around.       

1054
01:00:24,829 --> 01:00:27,624
      "Let's get that Pulitzer      
    with that mass-murder story."   

1055
01:00:27,666 --> 01:00:29,501
      And don't forget, there's     
    an electric feeling in there    

1056
01:00:29,542 --> 01:00:30,961
           because of all           
         those dead bodies.         

1057
01:00:31,002 --> 01:00:32,963
           Man: ...bloody,          
         week-long uprising         

1058
01:00:33,004 --> 01:00:34,756
            Reporter #14:           
      Dozens of Taliban forces      

1059
01:00:34,798 --> 01:00:36,925
 were seen today with their hands 
      tied behind their backs,      

1060
01:00:36,967 --> 01:00:38,635
      suggesting an execution.      

1061
01:00:38,677 --> 01:00:41,304
 Pelton: And that communicated to 
          some of the media         

1062
01:00:41,346 --> 01:00:45,267
            that somebody           
      was massacring prisoners.     

1063
01:00:45,308 --> 01:00:46,935
           And they were.           
        They were shooting --       

1064
01:00:46,977 --> 01:00:49,062
 I mean, they were running around 
     trying to untie each other     

1065
01:00:49,104 --> 01:00:50,313
          with their teeth          
            or whatever,            

1066
01:00:50,355 --> 01:00:51,815
   and there were people shooting   
              at them.              

1067
01:00:51,856 --> 01:00:53,650
     [ Rocket launcher shoots ]     

1068
01:00:56,778 --> 01:00:58,196
   Billingsley: Bodies everywhere. 

1069
01:00:58,238 --> 01:01:01,283
       You know, I don't know,      
          100, 200 bodies,          

1070
01:01:01,324 --> 01:01:04,661
       and you knew out there       
   somewhere was also Mike Spann.   

1071
01:01:06,621 --> 01:01:08,331
   Jennings: The CIA did something 
           unusual today.           

1072
01:01:08,373 --> 01:01:10,500
            It confirmed            
        in a very public way        

1073
01:01:10,542 --> 01:01:13,169
       that one of its agents       
   had been killed in Afghanistan. 

1074
01:01:13,211 --> 01:01:16,339
      The unusual step not only     
          of acknowledging          

1075
01:01:16,381 --> 01:01:18,425
     that one of its operatives     
          have been killed,         

1076
01:01:18,466 --> 01:01:21,636
           but naming him           
    and issuing a press release.    

1077
01:01:21,678 --> 01:01:23,805
    Reporter #15: He was killed,    
        they say, on Sunday.        

1078
01:01:23,847 --> 01:01:29,394
     It wasn't safe or possible     
 to get his body out until today. 

1079
01:01:33,356 --> 01:01:36,067
       Pelton: The basement --      
     This is very famous now --     

1080
01:01:36,109 --> 01:01:38,069
          of what they call         
           the pink house.          

1081
01:01:38,111 --> 01:01:41,156
     The pink house is actually     
           a bomb shelter.          

1082
01:01:42,407 --> 01:01:43,700
            Billingsley:            
      The guys we were next to,     

1083
01:01:43,742 --> 01:01:45,201
       they were shooting down      
            the basement,           

1084
01:01:45,243 --> 01:01:47,037
         you know, their AKs        
        through the windows.        

1085
01:01:47,078 --> 01:01:49,247
       We had no idea there's       
   a whole bunch in the basement.   

1086
01:01:49,289 --> 01:01:51,041
     It suddenly became apparent    
         that they were down        

1087
01:01:51,082 --> 01:01:52,375
           in the dungeon.          
     There was a little window.     

1088
01:01:52,417 --> 01:01:54,085
       There were lots of guys      
             down there.            

1089
01:01:54,127 --> 01:01:56,046
           They had guns,           
     and they were gonna fight.     

1090
01:01:56,087 --> 01:01:58,715
       So then we sprinted out      
              of there,             

1091
01:01:58,757 --> 01:02:03,386
   just running across this field   
      of bodies, jumping them.      

1092
01:02:05,597 --> 01:02:09,059
         It was really grim,        
        really, really grim.        

1093
01:02:09,100 --> 01:02:10,560
     Man #6: 1, 2...                

1094
01:02:10,602 --> 01:02:12,562
            [ Explosion ]           
 Fire in the hole.                 

1095
01:02:12,604 --> 01:02:14,356
 What the fuck is that?            

1096
01:02:14,397 --> 01:02:16,733
   Billingsley: They were dumping   
       55-gallon drums of oil       

1097
01:02:16,775 --> 01:02:19,235
    and then they put incendiary    
             grenades in            

1098
01:02:19,277 --> 01:02:21,905
    and threw the grenades down,    
        but nobody came out.        

1099
01:02:21,946 --> 01:02:23,740
   I talked to one of the Afghans   
       through the translator.      

1100
01:02:23,782 --> 01:02:26,034
    I said, "So how many of these   
    guys do you think there are?"   

1101
01:02:26,076 --> 01:02:27,243
          "One and a half."         

1102
01:02:27,285 --> 01:02:28,953
       Like, "One and a half"?      

1103
01:02:28,995 --> 01:02:30,580
            "Yeah, no one           
         could survive this.        

1104
01:02:30,622 --> 01:02:32,665
     So probably one and a half     
              or two."              

1105
01:02:43,593 --> 01:02:45,595
   I know it's an unbreakable vow   
            and all that,           

1106
01:02:45,637 --> 01:02:48,139
            and I can see           
      a soldier's honor in it,      

1107
01:02:48,181 --> 01:02:52,060
           but...all this           
          to get one body?          

1108
01:02:55,855 --> 01:02:58,274
         It was a slaughter.        

1109
01:02:58,316 --> 01:03:03,738
        [ Explosion echoing ]       

1110
01:03:03,780 --> 01:03:05,865
     I remember thinking, "Where    
    are the special forces guys?    

1111
01:03:05,907 --> 01:03:07,409
           Or where's...?"          

1112
01:03:07,450 --> 01:03:09,953
       And then, while we were      
      on that northern parapet      

1113
01:03:09,994 --> 01:03:11,621
     above the main gate across,    

1114
01:03:11,663 --> 01:03:13,748
      you could see their heads     
     poking up once in a while,     

1115
01:03:13,790 --> 01:03:15,458
       just kind of surveying       
           the situation.           

1116
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:17,210
 But they were staying out of it. 

1117
01:03:20,171 --> 01:03:23,049
     Some point in time, the --     

1118
01:03:23,091 --> 01:03:26,886
    the U.S. personnel had taken    
     Spann's body off the field     

1119
01:03:26,928 --> 01:03:33,226
    and there was this idea that    
 the U.S. story of this was over. 

1120
01:03:33,268 --> 01:03:36,604
    But instead of one and a half   
    or two prisoners coming out,    

1121
01:03:36,646 --> 01:03:38,481
            86 come out.            

1122
01:03:38,523 --> 01:03:40,316
           And one of them          
           is the same guy          

1123
01:03:40,358 --> 01:03:42,944
       that was revealed later      
        to be on that blanket       

1124
01:03:42,986 --> 01:03:45,488
       that the two CIA agents      
       had been interrogating       

1125
01:03:45,530 --> 01:03:51,202
         that was, you know,        
    the American Taliban, Lindh.    

1126
01:03:51,244 --> 01:03:52,662
            It was like,            
       "The story's moved on.       

1127
01:03:52,704 --> 01:03:54,831
      Now it's about this guy,      
       the American Taliban."       

1128
01:03:54,873 --> 01:03:56,708
     And that became -- at least    
    for the the U.S. audience --    

1129
01:03:56,749 --> 01:03:59,294
       that became the story.       
   It wasn't about everybody else. 

1130
01:03:59,335 --> 01:04:01,212
     It wasn't about the 70 dead    
          Northern Alliance         

1131
01:04:01,254 --> 01:04:03,089
       or the 200 or 300 dead.      

1132
01:04:03,131 --> 01:04:04,466
           I never did get          
          an accurate count         

1133
01:04:04,507 --> 01:04:06,551
   of how many people were killed. 

1134
01:04:06,593 --> 01:04:08,219
            It was about            
        this American Taliban       

1135
01:04:08,261 --> 01:04:10,013
          because he wasn't         
          an Arab-American.         

1136
01:04:10,054 --> 01:04:11,347
    He wasn't a person of color.    

1137
01:04:11,389 --> 01:04:12,515
           He was a white,          
        middle-class American       

1138
01:04:12,557 --> 01:04:14,142
   From Marin County, California.   

1139
01:04:14,184 --> 01:04:15,518
            Reporter #16:           
       Today, Taliban fighters      

1140
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:17,479
           captured after           
      a bloody prison rebellion     

1141
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,148
 near Mazar-i-Sharif, one of them 
       seen here on the right,      

1142
01:04:20,190 --> 01:04:23,985
       a 20-year-old American,      
     who told   Newsweek   magazine     

1143
01:04:24,027 --> 01:04:27,197
        he joined the Taliban       
   to build a true Islamic state.   

1144
01:04:27,238 --> 01:04:28,823
   Defense officials say he is now 

1145
01:04:28,865 --> 01:04:33,203
           in the custody           
        of the U.S. military.       

1146
01:04:33,244 --> 01:04:35,788
               Perry:               
   It was a tabloid revenge story, 

1147
01:04:35,830 --> 01:04:39,334
            and he played           
         his part perfectly.        

1148
01:04:39,375 --> 01:04:43,213
         He was unrepentant.        

1149
01:04:43,254 --> 01:04:45,924
      And what he really needed     
             was someone            

1150
01:04:45,965 --> 01:04:48,426
       to kind of ask him why,      

1151
01:04:48,468 --> 01:04:50,428
              you know,             
       and try and understand.      

1152
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:54,557
    But no one was gonna give him   
         any understanding.         

1153
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:55,934
    And he wasn't asking for it.    

1154
01:04:55,975 --> 01:04:59,479
                                   

1155
01:04:59,521 --> 01:05:01,606
       Walker Lindh: Really...      

1156
01:05:10,657 --> 01:05:13,159
    Bill: Let's let the morphine    
   take effect and you can relax.   

1157
01:05:13,201 --> 01:05:14,035
    Pelton: Thank you               
   for talking to us.               

1158
01:05:14,077 --> 01:05:19,415
                                   

1159
01:05:19,457 --> 01:05:21,376
     Perry: I remember proposing    
             that story,            

1160
01:05:21,417 --> 01:05:24,045
          that exact story,         
         to "Times" editors,        

1161
01:05:24,087 --> 01:05:29,175
   saying, "We need to do a story   
    on what this group of people,   

1162
01:05:29,217 --> 01:05:32,262
 who in some ways represent quite 
     a large part of the planet,    

1163
01:05:32,303 --> 01:05:34,055
         don't like America.        

1164
01:05:34,097 --> 01:05:35,723
      We need to explain that."     

1165
01:05:35,765 --> 01:05:38,851
     And my editors are saying,     
    "We're not doing that story."   

1166
01:05:38,893 --> 01:05:46,109
                                   

1167
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:53,616
                                   

1168
01:05:53,658 --> 01:06:00,832
                                   

1169
01:06:00,873 --> 01:06:02,625
          John Walker Lindh         
     was not the only American.     

1170
01:06:02,667 --> 01:06:05,003
     There was another American     
       that we didn't realize       

1171
01:06:05,044 --> 01:06:07,505
        until he was at Gitmo       
   and he was debriefed, you know, 

1172
01:06:07,547 --> 01:06:09,549
       and then they wound up       
 stripping him of his citizenship 

1173
01:06:09,591 --> 01:06:11,968
        and sending him back        
      to Saudi Arabia -- Hamdi.     

1174
01:06:12,010 --> 01:06:15,930
     So there were two Americans    
      actually in that prison.      

1175
01:06:15,972 --> 01:06:17,181
    Lindh was the only Caucasian.   

1176
01:06:17,223 --> 01:06:19,809
   The other was an ethnic Saudi.   

1177
01:06:29,193 --> 01:06:30,903
      [ Man talking in Arabic ]     

1178
01:06:51,549 --> 01:06:52,967
 Pelton: I'm not gonna tell        
 anybody you're here, so,          

1179
01:06:53,009 --> 01:06:55,511
 hopefully you can get             
 some peace and quiet.             

1180
01:06:55,553 --> 01:06:57,180
 But I will communicate            
    anything you want               

1181
01:06:57,221 --> 01:06:58,514
 to anybody you want.              

1182
01:07:09,108 --> 01:07:10,401
   This is Sheberghan.              

1183
01:07:31,422 --> 01:07:33,633
                   Right now.       

1184
01:07:38,012 --> 01:07:45,561
                                   

1185
01:07:45,603 --> 01:07:48,731
   Pelton: My main goal was to get 
         him on that phone,         

1186
01:07:48,773 --> 01:07:50,483
 'cause once you're on the phone, 

1187
01:07:50,525 --> 01:07:52,568
      then the parents can call     
              a lawyer,             

1188
01:07:52,610 --> 01:07:54,737
      they can call the media,      
              whatever.             

1189
01:07:56,572 --> 01:07:58,199
         But he didn't want         
        to do that, so fine.        

1190
01:07:58,241 --> 01:08:00,576
       I'm not gonna push him.      
   And then I said to Bill, "Okay, 

1191
01:08:00,618 --> 01:08:02,412
        we've got to get him        
             out of here            

1192
01:08:02,453 --> 01:08:07,333
     because if he stays here...    

1193
01:08:07,375 --> 01:08:08,710
        he could disappear."        

1194
01:08:08,751 --> 01:08:11,087
      And I wasn't exaggerating     
             the threat.            

1195
01:08:15,049 --> 01:08:17,844
   And what I predicted was true,   
       that he would disappear      

1196
01:08:17,885 --> 01:08:19,220
   and you wouldn't see him again. 

1197
01:08:19,262 --> 01:08:21,639
         -We have ambulance.        
             -Ambulance.            

1198
01:08:21,681 --> 01:08:28,187
                                   

1199
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:29,897
    And what happened after that,   
            I don't know,           

1200
01:08:29,939 --> 01:08:31,941
    except for one minor incident   
        in which I was asked        

1201
01:08:31,983 --> 01:08:36,112
      by the Marines over here      
    to brief them on Afghanistan.   

1202
01:08:36,154 --> 01:08:37,947
            And I thought           
       that was kind of weird,      

1203
01:08:37,989 --> 01:08:40,616
 like, why do the Marines want me 
     to tell about Afghanistan?     

1204
01:08:40,658 --> 01:08:42,702
    It turned out it was the guys   
            at Camp Rhino           

1205
01:08:42,744 --> 01:08:45,121
          that looked after         
         John Walker Lindh.         

1206
01:08:46,998 --> 01:08:50,460
   Radack: We had been told by our 
 boss that the Justice Department 

1207
01:08:50,501 --> 01:08:52,920
           we'd be taking           
    a more conservative position    

1208
01:08:52,962 --> 01:08:54,255
             after 9/11,            

1209
01:08:54,297 --> 01:08:57,633
   but that was not defined for us 
          what that meant.          

1210
01:08:57,675 --> 01:09:00,052
          And to most of us         
      it certainly didn't mean      

1211
01:09:00,094 --> 01:09:02,680
      throwing the ethics rules     
           out the window           

1212
01:09:02,722 --> 01:09:05,767
          and behaving like         
         a bunch of cowboys.        

1213
01:09:05,808 --> 01:09:08,394
    Pizzey: Any prisoners will be   
    held in a temporary facility    

1214
01:09:08,436 --> 01:09:10,021
     being built at Camp Rhino.     

1215
01:09:10,062 --> 01:09:12,774
   The only one here at the moment 
        is John Walker Lindh,       

1216
01:09:12,815 --> 01:09:15,151
      the young American caught     
     fighting with the Taliban.     

1217
01:09:15,193 --> 01:09:18,154
     He's reported to be in good    
   health but has no friends here. 

1218
01:09:18,196 --> 01:09:19,489
              Soldier:              
        Mama always told me,        

1219
01:09:19,530 --> 01:09:20,615
            "If you don't           
      have nothing good to say,     

1220
01:09:20,656 --> 01:09:22,033
    just keep your mouth closed."   

1221
01:09:22,074 --> 01:09:24,035
       And that about sums up       
           their opinion.           

1222
01:09:24,076 --> 01:09:27,538
       They really think that       
 he's lower than a snake's belly, 

1223
01:09:27,580 --> 01:09:29,081
   as you might say, around here.   

1224
01:09:29,123 --> 01:09:30,958
    Pelton: And the Marines came    
        to me and they said,        

1225
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,045
     "Oh, God, it's such a mess     
   because the guys would sneak in 

1226
01:09:34,086 --> 01:09:36,714
    and write things on his head    
 and take pictures all the time." 

1227
01:09:36,756 --> 01:09:38,591
            Reporter #18:           
         John Walker Lindh,         

1228
01:09:38,633 --> 01:09:40,676
             Abdul Hamid            
     to his Taliban associates,     

1229
01:09:40,718 --> 01:09:42,512
     is being held at Camp Rhino    

1230
01:09:42,553 --> 01:09:46,641
   awaiting return to this country 
   and under ferocious criticism.   

1231
01:09:46,682 --> 01:09:48,017
    I don't know all the details,   

1232
01:09:48,059 --> 01:09:49,811
      but he certainly appears      
          to be a traitor.          

1233
01:09:49,852 --> 01:09:51,687
            Reporter #19:           
    What is the President's view    

1234
01:09:51,729 --> 01:09:53,606
       of an American fighting      
          for the Taliban?          

1235
01:09:53,648 --> 01:09:55,942
        The President has set       
      a war against the Taliban     

1236
01:09:55,983 --> 01:09:58,778
     and a war against al-Qaeda,    
   regardless of who it composes.   

1237
01:09:58,820 --> 01:10:00,446
            Reporter #19:           
    And waiting back home for him   

1238
01:10:00,488 --> 01:10:03,699
       are his nervous parents      
   and the attorney they've hired   

1239
01:10:03,741 --> 01:10:06,369
              to argue              
     he was just a young man...     

1240
01:10:06,410 --> 01:10:08,955
               Radack:              
      It was December 7, 2001.      

1241
01:10:08,996 --> 01:10:11,874
        We had been informed        
            unambiguously           

1242
01:10:11,916 --> 01:10:16,087
       that John Walker Lindh       
     was represented by counsel.    

1243
01:10:16,128 --> 01:10:20,091
        I advised on a Friday       
       not to interrogate him       

1244
01:10:20,132 --> 01:10:22,385
         without his lawyer.        

1245
01:10:22,426 --> 01:10:25,596
   Bread and butter, basic advice. 

1246
01:10:25,638 --> 01:10:27,682
    It was not something radical.   

1247
01:10:27,723 --> 01:10:31,018
       Then I get a call back       
             on a Monday            

1248
01:10:31,060 --> 01:10:33,729
     and the Justice Department     
              attorney,             

1249
01:10:33,771 --> 01:10:36,732
    my counterpart in terrorism,    
         the violent crime,         

1250
01:10:36,774 --> 01:10:41,696
            said, "Well,            
 the FBI interrogated him anyway. 

1251
01:10:41,737 --> 01:10:44,031
       So what do we do now?"       

1252
01:10:47,660 --> 01:10:53,583
   So I advised that the interview 
       would have to be sealed      

1253
01:10:53,624 --> 01:10:56,085
            and only used           
        for national security       

1254
01:10:56,127 --> 01:10:58,838
     and intelligence-gathering     
              purposes,             

1255
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:03,050
               but not              
      for criminal prosecution.     

1256
01:11:03,092 --> 01:11:04,927
       Reimann: I wasn't aware      
    and I'm sure he wasn't aware    

1257
01:11:04,969 --> 01:11:07,430
            of the family           
      having retained somebody.     

1258
01:11:07,471 --> 01:11:10,016
        I've been, you know,        

1259
01:11:10,057 --> 01:11:12,184
      asked by my headquarters      
          to interview him,         

1260
01:11:12,226 --> 01:11:13,936
         and that was my...         

1261
01:11:13,978 --> 01:11:17,064
    And I did it with the Miranda   
   warnings that are appropriate.   

1262
01:11:17,106 --> 01:11:19,525
     I told him that, you know,     
      there's no lawyer present     

1263
01:11:19,567 --> 01:11:21,903
       and, you know, you have      
              the right             

1264
01:11:21,944 --> 01:11:23,446
      to not talk to me at all.     

1265
01:11:23,487 --> 01:11:26,407
     Or you don't have to answer    
      every question I ask you.     

1266
01:11:26,449 --> 01:11:27,658
       Those are your options,      

1267
01:11:27,700 --> 01:11:29,952
        and he said, "No, no,       
           I want to talk.          

1268
01:11:29,994 --> 01:11:31,913
      Candiotti: Legal experts      
       call Walker's statement      

1269
01:11:31,954 --> 01:11:34,457
         to the FBI crucial         
      to the government's case.     

1270
01:11:34,498 --> 01:11:37,960
     In it, he allegedly admits     
     training in al-Qaeda camps     

1271
01:11:38,002 --> 01:11:41,672
    and being told about planned    
     suicide attacks in the U.S.    

1272
01:11:41,714 --> 01:11:44,634
           When he told me          
      that he was at the camp,      

1273
01:11:44,675 --> 01:11:46,177
     that was an al-Qaeda camp,     
            that he knew            

1274
01:11:46,218 --> 01:11:48,137
     he was in an al-Qaeda camp.    
       He knew that up front.       

1275
01:11:48,179 --> 01:11:51,140
      And he said -- You know,      
       I asked him about that.      

1276
01:11:51,182 --> 01:11:54,310
    He knew that al-Qaeda was --    
           That bin Laden,          

1277
01:11:54,352 --> 01:11:57,146
   who was the leader of al-Qaeda, 
 was wanted by the United States, 

1278
01:11:57,188 --> 01:12:02,777
       and that al-Qaeda was,       
 if you will, enemy of the state. 

1279
01:12:02,818 --> 01:12:04,320
          He knew all that.         

1280
01:12:04,362 --> 01:12:06,989
      And he's still -- He knew     
      that going into the camp.     

1281
01:12:07,031 --> 01:12:10,326
    He knew that during the camp.   
      And on several occasions,     

1282
01:12:10,368 --> 01:12:14,121
       bin Laden himself spoke      
   to specifically the foreigners. 

1283
01:12:14,163 --> 01:12:16,916
    The Westerners were set aside   
        and he spoke to them.       

1284
01:12:16,958 --> 01:12:19,001
    And on one occasion at least,   

1285
01:12:19,043 --> 01:12:22,004
          he spoke directly         
       with John Walker Lindh       

1286
01:12:22,046 --> 01:12:24,173
             and he said            
       he just wanted to fight      

1287
01:12:24,215 --> 01:12:27,301
       the Northern Alliance.       

1288
01:12:27,343 --> 01:12:28,803
      That was his intentions.      

1289
01:12:28,844 --> 01:12:30,972
       I mean, that's, again,       
       him describing himself,      

1290
01:12:31,013 --> 01:12:33,057
           that he thought          
      he was doing something --     

1291
01:12:33,099 --> 01:12:35,017
    a worthy cause or something.    

1292
01:12:35,059 --> 01:12:37,478
         And just as I said,        
   I thought that was a smart kid. 

1293
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,021
       He seemed intelligent,       

1294
01:12:39,063 --> 01:12:42,900
     and he learned the language    
      of a difficult language.      

1295
01:12:42,942 --> 01:12:46,237
      Yet he just did something     
           pretty stupid.           

1296
01:12:46,278 --> 01:12:48,698
        Tom Brokaw:It appears       
         an American member         

1297
01:12:48,739 --> 01:12:52,076
    of bin Laden's fighting force   
   will escape the death penalty.   

1298
01:12:52,118 --> 01:12:54,328
               Radack:              
       So this whole narrative      

1299
01:12:54,370 --> 01:12:56,872
         started to develop         
           rather quickly.          

1300
01:12:56,914 --> 01:12:59,875
   Wray: We had very few bad guys   
         in our possession.         

1301
01:12:59,917 --> 01:13:01,669
    And suddenly we had this guy,   

1302
01:13:01,711 --> 01:13:04,380
     who not only was supposedly    
             a bad guy,             

1303
01:13:04,422 --> 01:13:08,217
       but was one of our own.      

1304
01:13:08,259 --> 01:13:12,972
               Radack:              
 And he was ripe for caricatures. 

1305
01:13:13,014 --> 01:13:15,349
     I don't have to go through     
          all the rigmarole         

1306
01:13:15,391 --> 01:13:16,851
           of a courtroom,          

1307
01:13:16,892 --> 01:13:18,394
           and I can judge          
         just by what I know        

1308
01:13:18,436 --> 01:13:20,312
          that he's guilty          
   and that he should be punished. 

1309
01:13:20,354 --> 01:13:22,023
      I certainly don't approve     
           of what he did,          

1310
01:13:22,064 --> 01:13:24,150
        but then I don't know       
        what he did exactly.        

1311
01:13:24,191 --> 01:13:26,193
       Reporter #20: But is he      
     a latter-day Patty Hearst,     

1312
01:13:26,235 --> 01:13:28,904
        allegedly brainwashed       
       into becoming a warrior      

1313
01:13:28,946 --> 01:13:31,574
           or an accessory          
    to the murder of a CIA agent    

1314
01:13:31,615 --> 01:13:33,200
     who tried to question him?     

1315
01:13:33,242 --> 01:13:35,119
       Reporter #21: For now,       
    Walker is in military custody   

1316
01:13:35,161 --> 01:13:36,454
           on a Navy ship.          

1317
01:13:36,495 --> 01:13:38,080
    Brokaw: The American Taliban,   
         John Walker Lindh,         

1318
01:13:38,122 --> 01:13:39,790
           is coming back           
     to the United States today.    

1319
01:13:39,832 --> 01:13:41,250
 Mr. President, the country seems 
            to be divided           

1320
01:13:41,292 --> 01:13:44,045
         along several lines        
     when it comes to his case.     

1321
01:13:44,086 --> 01:13:46,380
     He's a traitor. Others say     
      he's a misunderstood kid.     

1322
01:13:46,422 --> 01:13:48,090
       Where do you come down       
            on all that?            

1323
01:13:48,132 --> 01:13:50,885
 I come down that he volunteered   
    to join al-Qaeda,               

1324
01:13:50,926 --> 01:13:52,636
 was trained by al-Qaeda.          

1325
01:13:52,678 --> 01:13:56,599
 I also am pleased that he's       
 gonna be afforded a chance        

1326
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,268
    to make his case                
   in a court of law.               

1327
01:13:59,310 --> 01:14:04,815
   Radack: It was just a complete   
       way to vilify someone,       

1328
01:14:04,857 --> 01:14:06,525
           which normally           
         Justice Department         

1329
01:14:06,567 --> 01:14:08,152
       has regulations against      

1330
01:14:08,194 --> 01:14:11,113
   because you don't want to give   
      unfair pretrial publicity     

1331
01:14:11,155 --> 01:14:14,116
    on someone that you actually    
        want to try in court        

1332
01:14:14,158 --> 01:14:19,121
   because it can make a criminal   
     prosecution more difficult.    

1333
01:14:19,163 --> 01:14:20,956
 Reporter #22: His defense argues 
         that his statements        

1334
01:14:20,998 --> 01:14:23,084
      to the FBI are unreliable     

1335
01:14:23,125 --> 01:14:24,919
        because he made them        
      after being held for two      

1336
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:26,921
            or three days           
      in this metal container,      

1337
01:14:26,962 --> 01:14:29,799
      an improvised jail cell,      
       blindfolded, his hands       

1338
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,093
         and feet painfully         
        bound to a stretcher.       

1339
01:14:32,134 --> 01:14:33,803
       They say Lindh believed      
            the only way            

1340
01:14:33,844 --> 01:14:36,138
        to escape the torture       
         of his confinement         

1341
01:14:36,180 --> 01:14:38,349
              was to do             
      whatever the FBI wanted.      

1342
01:14:42,353 --> 01:14:43,896
               -Yeah.               
               -Yeah.               

1343
01:14:45,731 --> 01:14:47,983
 [ Reporters shouting questions ] 

1344
01:14:48,025 --> 01:14:49,318
             Greenberg:             
     There was no credible story    

1345
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:50,861
         that was coming out        
        about what this was.        

1346
01:14:50,903 --> 01:14:52,446
    There were too many questions   
             around it.             

1347
01:14:52,488 --> 01:14:55,282
       And it's not just about      
         John Walker Lindh.         

1348
01:14:55,324 --> 01:14:57,326
    It's about the larger context   

1349
01:14:57,368 --> 01:15:00,287
          of what it meant          
       to take the gloves off       

1350
01:15:00,329 --> 01:15:04,083
     and do what we needed to do    
      to keep the country safe.     

1351
01:15:04,125 --> 01:15:06,377
           The problem is           
       that it shows weakness.      

1352
01:15:06,418 --> 01:15:09,880
       That pushing aside laws      
        and protections shows       

1353
01:15:09,922 --> 01:15:12,174
        that you don't really       
         trust your system.         

1354
01:15:12,216 --> 01:15:17,805
   And among the things that 9/11   
     did was to cause Americans     

1355
01:15:17,847 --> 01:15:20,850
      at all levels of society      
           and government           

1356
01:15:20,891 --> 01:15:23,185
        to say, "Our systems        
         can't protect us."         

1357
01:15:23,227 --> 01:15:27,022
   The systems and the law were in 
    the way for keeping us safe.    

1358
01:15:27,064 --> 01:15:31,527
     And to this day, we haven't    
        really come to terms        

1359
01:15:31,569 --> 01:15:32,862
      with the impact on that.      

1360
01:15:32,903 --> 01:15:34,196
   So to your question, you know,   

1361
01:15:34,238 --> 01:15:35,489
           "What happened           
       with terrorism trials?"      

1362
01:15:35,531 --> 01:15:37,992
       That's not the question      
            I would ask.            

1363
01:15:38,033 --> 01:15:39,535
      I would ask the question,     
           "What happened           

1364
01:15:39,577 --> 01:15:43,164
        with the relationship       
   between security and the law?"   

1365
01:15:43,205 --> 01:15:45,166
        which is -- which is        
           still something          

1366
01:15:45,207 --> 01:15:47,126
        we're struggling with       
            as a country.           

1367
01:15:47,168 --> 01:15:51,422
     He chose to waive his right    
           to an attorney,          

1368
01:15:51,463 --> 01:15:58,220
     both orally and in writing     
 before his statement to the FBI. 

1369
01:15:58,262 --> 01:16:00,055
         Mr. Walker will be         
          held responsible          

1370
01:16:00,097 --> 01:16:01,432
          in the courtroom          
          for his choices.          

1371
01:16:01,473 --> 01:16:03,309
               Radack:              
    After that press conference,    

1372
01:16:03,350 --> 01:16:07,646
       I get this performance       
     evaluation that's unsigned.    

1373
01:16:07,688 --> 01:16:12,985
      And my boss is just like,     
     "You don't seem happy here.    

1374
01:16:13,027 --> 01:16:16,071
     I think you should probably    
         find another job."         

1375
01:16:16,113 --> 01:16:19,074
    And she didn't say, "Because    
        of John Walker Lindh        

1376
01:16:19,116 --> 01:16:21,744
    and the fact that our office    
           took a position          

1377
01:16:21,785 --> 01:16:23,162
        that now contradicts        

1378
01:16:23,204 --> 01:16:25,164
      what the attorney general     
            was saying,"            

1379
01:16:25,206 --> 01:16:30,085
   but clearly, the ethics office   
           wanted me out.           

1380
01:16:30,127 --> 01:16:39,929
                                   

1381
01:16:39,970 --> 01:16:43,515
      And these trophy photos,      
              like why?             

1382
01:16:43,557 --> 01:16:45,100
               Who...               

1383
01:16:48,562 --> 01:16:50,773
       Why would they even...       

1384
01:16:50,814 --> 01:16:54,109
             I'm sorry.             
            It's just...            

1385
01:16:54,151 --> 01:17:02,243
                                   

1386
01:17:02,284 --> 01:17:06,372
        The smear campaigns,        
    they were directed at anyone    

1387
01:17:06,413 --> 01:17:11,961
        who was remotely seen       
        as having helped him.       

1388
01:17:12,002 --> 01:17:15,256
     And that's just tyrannical.    

1389
01:17:15,297 --> 01:17:16,715
    Reporter #23: The question is   

1390
01:17:16,757 --> 01:17:18,759
           whether actions          
    taken around the battlefield,   

1391
01:17:18,801 --> 01:17:20,219
    where there are a few rules,    

1392
01:17:20,261 --> 01:17:22,680
       can withstand the test       
        of the legal system,        

1393
01:17:22,721 --> 01:17:26,225
     where rules are everything.    

1394
01:17:26,267 --> 01:17:28,936
       Greenberg: The purpose       
        of a trial is to heal       

1395
01:17:28,978 --> 01:17:31,605
   and to bring a sense of justice 

1396
01:17:31,647 --> 01:17:34,483
         both to the victim         
   and to the alleged perpetrator, 

1397
01:17:34,525 --> 01:17:37,319
   and in so many terrorism cases, 
         we don't see that.         

1398
01:17:37,361 --> 01:17:39,446
     It was a very big surprise     
      in the Virginia courtroom     

1399
01:17:39,488 --> 01:17:43,284
   where John Lindh faced charges   
    that he engaged in terrorism.   

1400
01:17:43,325 --> 01:17:44,743
             Greenberg:             
          And in this case,         

1401
01:17:44,785 --> 01:17:46,954
       it might have made for       
        a more settling story       

1402
01:17:46,996 --> 01:17:49,456
       and for a greater sense      
             of closure.            

1403
01:17:49,498 --> 01:17:52,167
     Franken: The deal had been     
     struck just some nine hours    

1404
01:17:52,209 --> 01:17:54,837
      before John Walker Lindh      
         came back to court,        

1405
01:17:54,878 --> 01:17:58,173
           so secret that           
   Judge T.S. Ellis only found out 

1406
01:17:58,215 --> 01:18:00,217
           shortly before           
         he took the bench.         

1407
01:18:00,259 --> 01:18:02,553
    It wasn't just the plea deal,   
         it was the charges,        

1408
01:18:02,594 --> 01:18:07,266
     the fact that they decided     
      to drop 8 of 10 charges.      

1409
01:18:07,308 --> 01:18:09,476
   It wasn't that there was a jury 
        and he was acquitted.       

1410
01:18:09,518 --> 01:18:12,271
         It was the charges         
       were actually dropped.       

1411
01:18:12,313 --> 01:18:14,606
   And so that is very unsettling. 

1412
01:18:14,648 --> 01:18:16,567
                                   

1413
01:18:16,608 --> 01:18:18,569
         It was like, "Wait,        
           what happened?           

1414
01:18:18,610 --> 01:18:20,279
         Was there evidence?        
       Wasn't there evidence?       

1415
01:18:20,321 --> 01:18:22,865
          What's -- what's          
         the actual story?"         

1416
01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:56,732
               Ellis:               
      It is true that fighting      

1417
01:18:56,774 --> 01:18:58,817
    for something you believe in    
            is a virtue,            

1418
01:18:58,859 --> 01:19:02,029
       but only if the belief       
         is itself virtuous.        

1419
01:19:14,041 --> 01:19:16,710
       ...and the Constitution      
        that led your council       

1420
01:19:16,752 --> 01:19:18,921
              to exert              
     their every effort for you     

1421
01:19:18,962 --> 01:19:21,590
       and that you will have       
      as much fervor for those      

1422
01:19:21,632 --> 01:19:23,217
   for all this country stands for 

1423
01:19:23,258 --> 01:19:28,263
     as you had for some causes     
     lacking virtue in the past.    

1424
01:19:28,305 --> 01:19:30,557
         The court concludes        
    that you should be committed    

1425
01:19:30,599 --> 01:19:32,101
           to the custody           
      of the Bureau of Prisons      

1426
01:19:32,142 --> 01:19:34,937
      for a period of 10 years      
            as to count 9           

1427
01:19:34,978 --> 01:19:38,482
    and 10 years as to one count    
      of criminal information,      

1428
01:19:38,524 --> 01:19:41,777
            those counts            
        to run consecutively.       

1429
01:19:41,819 --> 01:19:43,737
    This court stands in recess.    

1430
01:19:43,779 --> 01:19:46,198
           [ Gavel bangs ]          

1431
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:56,208
                                   

1432
01:19:56,250 --> 01:20:06,135
                                   

1433
01:20:06,176 --> 01:20:09,721
      Alison: One of the things     
       that my dad said to me       

1434
01:20:09,763 --> 01:20:11,098
      was the exact same thing      

1435
01:20:11,140 --> 01:20:13,976
            that he said            
        to John Walker Lindh.       

1436
01:20:15,853 --> 01:20:21,108
         There were Muslims         
    in the Twin Towers that day,    

1437
01:20:21,150 --> 01:20:26,155
           and the people           
     who did this were radicals.    

1438
01:20:26,196 --> 01:20:31,660
    And that's not what's written   
            in the Quran.           

1439
01:20:31,702 --> 01:20:33,954
          That is something         
        that really rang true       

1440
01:20:33,996 --> 01:20:35,164
       when I went over there.      

1441
01:20:35,205 --> 01:20:41,003
                                   

1442
01:20:41,044 --> 01:20:46,884
                                   

1443
01:20:46,925 --> 01:20:50,012
         The people there...        

1444
01:20:50,053 --> 01:20:52,389
      have been through a lot,      

1445
01:20:52,431 --> 01:20:56,852
    but they have a lot to offer    
            when you go.            

1446
01:20:56,894 --> 01:20:59,938
         I went there scared        

1447
01:20:59,980 --> 01:21:03,192
    and not sure what to expect,    

1448
01:21:03,233 --> 01:21:08,530
       but I met people there       
    who were friends with my dad,   

1449
01:21:08,572 --> 01:21:10,949
          who loved my dad,         

1450
01:21:10,991 --> 01:21:16,205
        who fought beside him       
         and who were Muslim        

1451
01:21:16,246 --> 01:21:19,666
     and were fighting the same     
            fight he was.           

1452
01:21:19,708 --> 01:21:22,878
   That will always stick with me. 

1453
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:28,008
                                   

1454
01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:33,180
                                   

1455
01:21:33,222 --> 01:21:35,724
    Perry: It seemed like America   
     was gonna win quite quickly    

1456
01:21:35,766 --> 01:21:37,392
       and I would ask people,      

1457
01:21:37,434 --> 01:21:41,271
    "What do you feel about that    
     prospect of peace finally?"    

1458
01:21:42,481 --> 01:21:44,900
     I remember this guy saying,    
        "Look, at the moment,       

1459
01:21:44,942 --> 01:21:46,902
          I'm 23 years old.         
         I've got a pick-up,        

1460
01:21:46,944 --> 01:21:48,570
      I've got a couple of guys     
       in the back with RPGs.       

1461
01:21:48,612 --> 01:21:50,072
        We scream into town.        

1462
01:21:50,113 --> 01:21:52,950
             We get out,            
       we get free cups of tea      

1463
01:21:52,991 --> 01:21:55,077
            and get looks           
          from the girls."          

1464
01:21:55,118 --> 01:21:57,246
               Peace?               
     What do you want me to do?     

1465
01:21:57,287 --> 01:21:59,665
        Hoe the desert? God.        

1466
01:21:59,706 --> 01:22:01,083
             [ Laughs ]             

1467
01:22:01,124 --> 01:22:04,253
         And I'll tell you,         
         when he said that,         

1468
01:22:04,294 --> 01:22:07,089
       I don't want to go hoe       
         the desert either.         

1469
01:22:09,091 --> 01:22:11,093
   But, you know, there's a reason 

1470
01:22:11,134 --> 01:22:13,345
        why the foot soldiers       
           in these wars,           

1471
01:22:13,387 --> 01:22:15,097
        they're all under 30.       

1472
01:22:15,138 --> 01:22:18,267
   You know, these are young men.   

1473
01:22:18,308 --> 01:22:21,103
           They're having           
      this wonderful adventure      

1474
01:22:21,144 --> 01:22:23,522
      and egging each other on,     
          mates, you know,          

1475
01:22:23,564 --> 01:22:27,067
      until one day comes along     
      and they all get killed.      

1476
01:22:27,109 --> 01:22:28,819
             [ Gunfire ]            

1477
01:22:32,197 --> 01:22:37,786
    If you reach a certain level    
    of maturity, you don't do it.   

1478
01:22:37,828 --> 01:22:39,496
       You know, you grow up.       

1479
01:22:39,538 --> 01:22:43,417
                                   

1480
01:22:43,458 --> 01:22:45,210
             [ Gunfire ]            

1481
01:22:49,172 --> 01:22:53,302
     Man #7: I'm in the basement    
         of the pink house.         

1482
01:22:53,343 --> 01:22:55,804
   You can see some of the writing 
     here, some of the drawings.    

1483
01:22:55,846 --> 01:22:57,347
         Here's another one.        

1484
01:22:58,515 --> 01:23:02,102
       An interesting drawing.      

1485
01:23:02,144 --> 01:23:05,355
     I can't imagine seven days     
          in this basement.         

1486
01:23:09,484 --> 01:23:11,486
           [ Man speaking Arabic ] 

1487
01:23:15,616 --> 01:23:17,159
              Alphabet.             

1488
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,494
     It was like he was teaching    
         Arabic to somebody.        

1489
01:23:19,536 --> 01:23:23,123
 He said Johnny Walker was in the 
      room across from us here.     

1490
01:23:23,165 --> 01:23:24,875
                      Okay.         
                 Let's go there.    

1491
01:23:39,014 --> 01:23:40,891
                Man:                
        Johnny Walker injure.       

1492
01:23:40,932 --> 01:23:43,685
          -Injured in here?         
           -Johnny Walker.          

1493
01:23:43,727 --> 01:23:44,728
           That's a rocket          
            right there.            

1494
01:23:44,770 --> 01:23:46,229
          Oh, look at that.         

1495
01:23:46,271 --> 01:23:48,982
       This room is completely      
      blackened from the fire.      

1496
01:23:49,024 --> 01:23:51,568
 Pelton: What made you decide      
 to leave the basement?            

1497
01:24:38,573 --> 01:24:41,243
 Was your goal to be Shaheed       
      or murdered?                  

1498
01:24:43,954 --> 01:24:45,122
 Was it your goal?                 
                Huh?                

1499
01:24:45,163 --> 01:24:47,124
    Was it your goal                
      at that time?                 

1500
01:25:10,522 --> 01:25:17,112
                                   

1501
01:25:17,154 --> 01:25:23,744
                                   

1502
01:25:23,785 --> 01:25:26,538
      I have known                  
   very few Americans               

1503
01:25:26,580 --> 01:25:27,914
     to fight jihad,                

1504
01:25:27,956 --> 01:25:29,249
 and I'm just wondering,           
    just personally,                

1505
01:25:29,291 --> 01:25:30,959
    because I've been               
 on jihad in Chechnya              

1506
01:25:31,001 --> 01:25:34,254
 and southern Philippines,         
    I'm just curious,               

1507
01:25:34,296 --> 01:25:36,465
 was this what you thought         
      it would be?                  

1508
01:25:36,506 --> 01:25:39,468
 Was this the right cause          
   or the right place?              

1509
01:25:42,137 --> 01:25:52,147
                                   

1510
01:25:52,189 --> 01:26:02,073
                                   

1511
01:26:02,115 --> 01:26:12,083
                                   

1512
01:26:12,125 --> 01:26:22,135
                                   

1513
01:26:22,177 --> 01:26:32,145
                                   

1514
01:26:32,187 --> 01:26:42,155
                                   

1515
01:26:42,197 --> 01:26:52,165
                                   

1516
01:26:52,207 --> 01:27:02,133
                                   

1517
01:27:02,175 --> 01:27:12,143
                                   

1518
01:27:12,185 --> 01:27:22,153
                                   

1519
01:27:22,195 --> 01:27:32,205
                                   

1520
01:27:32,247 --> 01:27:42,215
                                   

1521
01:27:42,257 --> 01:27:52,225
                                   

1522
01:27:52,267 --> 01:28:02,193
                                   

1523
01:28:02,235 --> 01:28:12,203
                                   

1524
01:28:12,245 --> 01:28:18,251
                                   

1525
01:28:18,293 --> 01:28:24,632