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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[ Rain pattering ]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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Wray:
"It's hard to imagine now

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after everything that's happened
in the brutal decades since,

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but the events
of September 11, 2001,

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were all but unimaginable
in mid-2000,

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when an earnest,
bookish California teenager

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named John Walker Lindh,
age 19,

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decided to travel to the
Middle East to study the Quran.

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The consequences
of that decision

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are a matter of public record.

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Two months after
the Twin Towers had fallen,

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six weeks
after the United States

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dropped its first bomb
on Afghanistan,

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a few hundred Taliban soldiers,
held as prisoners of war

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in an ancient
mud-and-brick fortress

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near Mazar-i-Sharif,
staged an uprising.

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All but 86 of those prisoners
would die,

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as well as a man named
Johnny Micheal Spann,

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who was serving as a CIA adviser

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to America's allies
on the ground.

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It was discovered that one of
the few surviving prisoners

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was an American -- Mr. Lindh.

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A media frenzy ensued."

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You know, as a fiction writer,

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you don't necessarily think
that what you write

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is going to immediately
have real-world consequences.

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I was probably
a little bit naive.

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I'd written some op-eds before,
but none of them had ever

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pissed people off to the degree
that this one did.

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"The fact that Mr. Lindh

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had enlisted
as a simple foot soldier

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in a strictly regional conflict

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between the Taliban
and a group of rival warlords

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availed him next to nothing,

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especially once his filthy,
bearded, wild-eyed face

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was broadcast around the world."

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Man: John Walker Lindh
is leaving prison much like

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he went in nearly two decades
ago, under a cloud --

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Wray:
"He found himself branded

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the 'American Taliban.'"

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Why in the world
would you take this man in?

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"America had captured
a clear villain

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in the otherwise bewildering,
morally muddy war on terror

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and understandably, perhaps,
we didn't want to let him go."

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...captured him
and put him in prison.

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"We still don't."

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The case of a criminal

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as universally reviled
as Mr. Lindh

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is an opportunity for a display
of righteous indignation

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to which virtually
no potential voter will object.

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For precisely
that reason, however,

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great caution is called for.

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His release, and the controversy
surrounding it,

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may prove a valuable test
of our ability

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to keep our worst impulses
in check.

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If John Walker Lindh
becomes the terrorist

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we've always accused him
of being,

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the fault will lie with us --

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with our ignorance,
and our intolerance --

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as much as with Mr. Lindh
himself."

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So my straightener
that I've ha-- Oh, wait.

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She's not in here -- died.
[ Hair straightener clicks ]

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I've had it
for, like, six years.

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Yeah, so that's gonna be

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a major...
[ Straightener clacks ]

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My dad had curly hair,
my aunt had curly hair,

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and my mom's mother
has curly hair,

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so I got it from all sides
of my family

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and I don't want
to lose it or damage it.

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So...

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Um...so two things...

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Actually,
I would say three.

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My dad always wanted me
to be aware

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of current events.
[ Zipper opens ]

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So, you know,
when 9/11 happened,

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our school didn't
show us the video.

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But when I got home, I sat with
my dad in front of the TV

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and watched that all night.

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Now, some people would say,

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"Oh, you shouldn't let your kids
see that kind of stuff.

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You know, it's --
Shelter them from that."

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But my dad never did.

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Like, when we would have
reading,

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like, we had to read something
for the night,

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my dad would pull, like,
newspaper clippings.

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I remember one time
I read this article

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in the newspaper called
"The Pacifist Claptrap,"

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and that was my reading
for the night.

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And he was like, "Don't --
don't write that down

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as what you read, but this is
what you're reading."

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So it was always important
as a kid to be informed

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on current events.

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And the second thing is
when I went to Afghanistan,

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we stayed
in General Dostum's houses.

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And every time we went
to see him, you know,

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for a dinner
or something like that,

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the news --
Fox News was always on.

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So at that point, you know,
at 9,

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I realized the reach
that being in the news

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and informing people goes, like,
even in Afghanistan,

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where all I see are mud huts
around me, the news is still,

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you know, at least reaching
some households.

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Of course, not everyone lives
like Gen. Dostum over there,

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but you just realize the reach
that has.

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And then the third reason

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is one of the worst days

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that I can remember
after my parents died

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was the day that we were
doing a show for Oprah.

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And we were filming at a park,

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and I was like,
"I don't -- I don't want this,

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like, I want to go home."

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And then the film crew
asks these kids

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to, like, get off the toys
and let us play

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so they could film us playing.

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And I was beyond mortified.

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It was one of the worst days
I can remember,

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and so I always felt like if I
could tell compassionate stories

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without overstepping my bounds,
that I needed to

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because I know there
are so many out there who don't.

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Looking back now, it's weird

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because when we would go
to Arlington National Cemetery,

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my dad was very particular about
how we walked to the cemetery.

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You always have to walk
behind the graves,

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and you never, like, step
on somebody's grave.

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And he sort of taught us
how the respectful way

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to navigate
through that cemetery,

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not knowing that a year later,

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he himself
would be buried there.

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Oh -- Hi.

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I was like,
"Is this car running?"

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[ Speaking indistinctly ]
[ Keys clack ]

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Wait.
What are you covering?

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Here. Do you want
your real key back?

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Did you watch the 10:00?
Probably not. It was a disaster.

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No, I did, actually.
I watched the --

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What happened
at the start?

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So the show wasn't loading
in the new automated system.

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So it started, like,
after the open and --

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Do I want to know?
No.

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Had John Walker Lindh
not been there that day,

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the prison uprising
would have still happened.

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My dad would have
still been killed.

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But when you add
John Walker Lindh,

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that's the point where
the story could have changed.

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It could have been
this American kid

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on a spiritual journey
gets lost.

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He finds an American...

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who comes to his rescue,
essentially,

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if he had told my dad and Dave,

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"Hey, this prison uprising
is gonna happen."

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Maybe no one, no Americans
would have had to die that day.

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But that's not what happened.

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So I think it just makes it
all the worse for our family,

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knowing that there was
an element in that prison

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that could have prevented
my dad's death.

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And he didn't.

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He chose to stay silent.

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So the story
would have been the same.

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I just think it could have
played out a lot differently

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if John Walker Lindh
had made different choices.

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Wray:
When I was writing my novel,

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I had to sort of imagine myself
in this town

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that I grew up in and how
desperately I wanted to escape.

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I grew up wanting to write
fiction and write novels,

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and I thought
that this was an episode,

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a footnote, if you will,
in America's war on terror

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that almost contained
everything else in microcosm.

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So I had done
a little bit of homework

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to sort of reverse-engineer
this sequence of choices

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all the way back
to Marin County

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and putting in a VHS tape
of "Malcolm X."

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But as far as I understand it,
that's really how it happened.

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You know, and I can imagine
that very clearly.

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Boettcher: Walker Lindh told
his questioners

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that he began
his journey to Islam

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after seeing the movie
"Malcolm X"

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when he was 12 years old.

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Plymouth Rock landed on us.

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Boettcher:
That launched an odyssey

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that took him from being
a teenage Muslim convert

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in northern California

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to an Arabic school
in Yemen to Pakistan.

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Wray: What could be more
American than that?

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Pop culture is what brought
John Walker Lindh

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to a tiny madrassa
near the border of Afghanistan,

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the most far-removed spot
you could imagine

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from where he began,

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which was just watching
a Spike Lee movie.

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Reporter: John Walker Lindh
stands accused of trying

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to kill his own countrymen,
and many wonder what drove him

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into the arms
and service of the Taliban.

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We found clues here at
the madrassa or religious school

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where he studied
for almost six months

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00:11:30.857 --> 00:11:33.818
using his Muslim name, Sulayman.

214
00:11:33.860 --> 00:11:37.363
He abruptly left and left
behind his Arabic workbooks,

215
00:11:37.405 --> 00:11:41.659
his suitcase full of Western
clothes, even his toothpaste.

216
00:11:41.701 --> 00:11:45.538
It was as if he turned his back
forever on John Walker Lindh,

217
00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:47.165
the American.

218
00:11:47.206 --> 00:11:50.918
Wray: If someone spends a minute
or two trying to figure out

219
00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:53.171
how this could have happened,

220
00:11:53.212 --> 00:11:54.380
they're not gonna get anywhere

221
00:11:54.422 --> 00:11:57.717
and then essentially,
in exasperation,

222
00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:00.511
they'll just fall back on
the most knee-jerk explanation

223
00:12:00.553 --> 00:12:02.722
of "This kid was just
a bad apple.

224
00:12:02.764 --> 00:12:04.182
He was just a born traitor."

225
00:12:04.223 --> 00:12:06.225
He's expected to move
to Northern Virginia,

226
00:12:06.267 --> 00:12:08.394
just outside of D.C.
George.

227
00:12:08.436 --> 00:12:09.979
We'll see if they can
police that okay.

228
00:12:10.021 --> 00:12:12.565
Reporter #2: The American
Taliban, John Walker Lindh,

229
00:12:12.607 --> 00:12:15.193
released from federal prison
today after serving...

230
00:12:15.234 --> 00:12:17.487
Bernsten: John Walker Lindh,
38 years old.

231
00:12:17.528 --> 00:12:21.532
He's gonna be out and living
in your neighborhood in America.

232
00:12:21.574 --> 00:12:23.743
Personally,
I wanted to see him hung.

233
00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:29.248
Mike Spann, a dedicated
family man

234
00:12:29.290 --> 00:12:31.793
who was doing the right thing
for his country,

235
00:12:31.834 --> 00:12:34.253
winds up losing his life.

236
00:12:34.295 --> 00:12:36.255
I'm outraged by the whole thing.

237
00:12:37.632 --> 00:12:39.467
Radack: But even the history
of 9/11 --

238
00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:40.927
My kids are in high school.

239
00:12:40.968 --> 00:12:44.889
9/11 is not mentioned
in their history books,

240
00:12:44.931 --> 00:12:46.474
which is amazing to me.

241
00:12:46.516 --> 00:12:48.976
I don't know if it's just not
enough time has gone by

242
00:12:49.018 --> 00:12:50.937
for it to be considered
"history"

243
00:12:50.978 --> 00:12:55.900
or it just does not look good
for America because we were,

244
00:12:55.942 --> 00:12:59.195
I feel like, improvising
a lot of the response to 9/11

245
00:12:59.237 --> 00:13:01.531
because it was uncharted
territory.

246
00:13:01.572 --> 00:13:05.451
And improvising your response
to 9/11...

247
00:13:05.493 --> 00:13:07.578
[ Photograph flutters ]
...looks like this.

248
00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:15.628



249
00:13:15.670 --> 00:13:18.631
This guy takes
a CIA officer's life,

250
00:13:18.673 --> 00:13:21.426
joins the Taliban,
is a traitor,

251
00:13:21.467 --> 00:13:23.261
doesn't want to --
you know, Death to Am--

252
00:13:23.302 --> 00:13:26.639
Joins this group that's Death
to America, and he gets 20 years

253
00:13:26.681 --> 00:13:29.058
and gets out
for good behavior earlier.

254
00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.812
It's a sad part of American
policy and a judicial system

255
00:13:32.854 --> 00:13:36.149
that they didn't let him go
in front of a jury,

256
00:13:36.190 --> 00:13:38.860
let them sentence him,
take the chance.

257
00:13:38.901 --> 00:13:43.698
You know, the Justice Department
and politicians frequently,

258
00:13:43.739 --> 00:13:46.451
you know, are, you know,
want to -- want to do a layup.

259
00:13:46.492 --> 00:13:49.120
They want the easy thing.
Cut a deal.

260
00:13:49.162 --> 00:13:53.040
No, take them to trial so people
can see and understand.

261
00:13:53.708 --> 00:13:57.170
It would educate the population
to see these trials,

262
00:13:57.211 --> 00:14:00.923
and I think society benefits by
having an airing of these crimes

263
00:14:00.965 --> 00:14:06.804
against us and a fuller exercise
of the justice system.

264
00:14:06.846 --> 00:14:10.683
Try them.

265
00:14:10.725 --> 00:14:14.437



266
00:14:14.479 --> 00:14:17.023
[ Camera shutters clicking ]

267
00:14:17.064 --> 00:14:20.735
[ Indistinct conversations ]

268
00:14:24.322 --> 00:14:27.492
Man: Move to
the other side, please!

269
00:14:27.533 --> 00:14:29.368
Reporter #3:
On the anthrax story today,

270
00:14:29.410 --> 00:14:31.621
four more post offices
tested positive for anthrax.

271
00:14:31.662 --> 00:14:33.206
Reporter #5:
The last several days,

272
00:14:33.247 --> 00:14:35.374
intelligence
and law-enforcement agencies

273
00:14:35.416 --> 00:14:37.335
have seen an increased volume

274
00:14:37.376 --> 00:14:39.629
involving threats
of terrorist attacks.

275
00:14:39.670 --> 00:14:41.130
Reporter #6: This is the third
terrorism alert

276
00:14:41.172 --> 00:14:42.757
since September 11th.

277
00:14:42.798 --> 00:14:44.926
Reporter #5: Federal
investigators now have approval

278
00:14:44.967 --> 00:14:47.428
to eavesdrop on phone calls

279
00:14:47.470 --> 00:14:49.722
between terrorist suspects
and their lawyers

280
00:14:49.764 --> 00:14:51.724
under the rule inmates
and lawyers

281
00:14:51.766 --> 00:14:54.602
must be told
they're being monitored...

282
00:14:54.644 --> 00:14:58.564
Brosnahan:
I think that any parent

283
00:14:58.606 --> 00:15:02.151
can understand the desire
that these two good parents

284
00:15:02.193 --> 00:15:05.279
have to see their son.

285
00:15:05.321 --> 00:15:09.158
No matter what anyone
thinks about anything.

286
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.118
It's part of
the Geneva Convention.

287
00:15:11.160 --> 00:15:13.746
It's part of civilized protocol.

288
00:15:13.788 --> 00:15:18.501
It's part of nations agreements
that parents will be allowed

289
00:15:18.543 --> 00:15:21.337
to see their children
under certain circumstances.

290
00:15:21.379 --> 00:15:25.550
And as of this moment, they've
not been allowed to do that.

291
00:15:25.591 --> 00:15:27.426
We're a little disappointed,
but the guards did tell us

292
00:15:27.468 --> 00:15:28.844
that John was
in good health.

293
00:15:28.886 --> 00:15:30.680
We're very glad to hear that.
Thank you.

294
00:15:30.721 --> 00:15:35.768



295
00:15:35.810 --> 00:15:41.107



296
00:15:41.148 --> 00:15:44.026
Today, I am announcing
the filing of criminal charges

297
00:15:44.068 --> 00:15:48.030
against John Walker Lindh,
an American citizen

298
00:15:48.072 --> 00:15:53.661
who was captured in Afghanistan
fighting for the Taliban.

299
00:15:53.703 --> 00:15:56.497
As terrorists made
their final preparations

300
00:15:56.539 --> 00:15:58.708
for the September 11th attacks,

301
00:15:58.749 --> 00:16:01.961
Walker Lindh met
with Usama bin Laden.

302
00:16:02.003 --> 00:16:05.923
He chose to go to the front
lines to fight with the Taliban.

303
00:16:05.965 --> 00:16:09.635
The United States is
charging Walker with conspiracy

304
00:16:09.677 --> 00:16:13.806
to kill nationals of the United
States of America overseas,

305
00:16:13.848 --> 00:16:16.684
providing material support
and resources

306
00:16:16.726 --> 00:16:20.313
to designated
foreign terrorist organizations,

307
00:16:20.354 --> 00:16:22.982
including Al-Qaeda,

308
00:16:23.024 --> 00:16:27.737
engaging in prohibited
transactions with the Taliban.

309
00:16:27.778 --> 00:16:30.906
He chose to embrace fanatics,

310
00:16:30.948 --> 00:16:33.784
and his allegiance
to those fanatics

311
00:16:33.826 --> 00:16:37.830
and terrorists never faltered,
not even with the knowledge

312
00:16:37.872 --> 00:16:42.001
that they had murdered
thousands of his countrymen,

313
00:16:42.043 --> 00:16:44.587
not with the knowledge that
they were engaged in a war

314
00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:46.839
with the United States,

315
00:16:46.881 --> 00:16:49.634
and not finally in
the prison uprising

316
00:16:49.675 --> 00:16:53.512
that took the life of CIA agent
Johnny Spann.

317
00:16:55.056 --> 00:16:56.724
Clerk: All rise.

318
00:16:56.766 --> 00:17:00.227
United States of America versus
John Phillip Walker Lindh,

319
00:17:00.269 --> 00:17:03.481
case number 02-51-M.

320
00:17:03.522 --> 00:17:06.484
Bring the defendant
to the podium, please.

321
00:17:06.525 --> 00:17:08.944
Mr. John Walker Lindh?

322
00:17:08.986 --> 00:17:10.404
Walker: Yes.

323
00:17:10.446 --> 00:17:11.739
You are before
the United States District Court

324
00:17:11.781 --> 00:17:14.283
for the Eastern District
of Virginia.

325
00:17:14.325 --> 00:17:17.078
You are charged
with alleged violations

326
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:18.454
of United States law.

327
00:17:18.496 --> 00:17:20.539
You understand
generally the charges?

328
00:17:20.581 --> 00:17:23.125
Yes, I understand,
generally.

329
00:17:23.167 --> 00:17:27.129
Do you understand generally the
penalties that can be imposed?

330
00:17:27.171 --> 00:17:29.882
Yes, I understand
generally.

331
00:17:29.924 --> 00:17:32.802
Brosnahan: May I just say one
thing briefly, Your Honor?

332
00:17:32.843 --> 00:17:34.845
Judge:
Yes, sir, Mr. Brosnahan.

333
00:17:34.887 --> 00:17:36.722
The attorney general
of the United States

334
00:17:36.764 --> 00:17:39.809
announced charges
against Mr. Lindh last Tuesday.

335
00:17:39.850 --> 00:17:41.560
This is the first arraignment
that he has had.

336
00:17:41.602 --> 00:17:44.397
So he was not arraigned
within 48 hours

337
00:17:44.438 --> 00:17:45.898
and until yesterday
was never told

338
00:17:45.940 --> 00:17:47.733
what the charges
were against him.

339
00:17:47.775 --> 00:17:49.568
I just wanted
to inform the court.

340
00:17:49.610 --> 00:17:51.195
Well, I appreciate the comment.

341
00:17:51.237 --> 00:17:53.155
I'm not sure of the date
when he was actually arrested

342
00:17:53.197 --> 00:17:54.657
by federal agents.

343
00:17:54.699 --> 00:17:57.952
The initial warrant was issued
on January 15.

344
00:17:57.993 --> 00:18:00.496
He was arrested approximately
on December 1st.

345
00:18:00.538 --> 00:18:02.415
He was kept in custody
for 54 days

346
00:18:02.456 --> 00:18:03.958
without a lawyer.

347
00:18:03.999 --> 00:18:06.127
He asked for a lawyer
somewhere in the first

348
00:18:06.168 --> 00:18:07.586
or second or third day.

349
00:18:07.628 --> 00:18:10.297
And this is the first time
that the government

350
00:18:10.339 --> 00:18:12.341
has brought him
before a court.

351
00:18:12.383 --> 00:18:14.927
Mr. Lindh,
have you any questions

352
00:18:14.969 --> 00:18:17.888
about what the court
has explained thus far?

353
00:18:17.930 --> 00:18:20.057
No, I don't have
any questions.

354
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:23.227



355
00:18:23.269 --> 00:18:25.271
Man: Order!

356
00:18:25.312 --> 00:18:27.440
Clerk: All rise.

357
00:18:27.481 --> 00:18:29.316
Judge: Good morning,
Mr. Walker.

358
00:18:29.358 --> 00:18:31.193
Walker Lindh:
Good morning, sir.

359
00:18:31.235 --> 00:18:32.820
Alright, let me ask you,

360
00:18:32.862 --> 00:18:34.905
how do you now plead
to all of the charges

361
00:18:34.947 --> 00:18:38.951
against you --
guilty or not guilty?

362
00:18:38.993 --> 00:18:41.203
Not guilty.

363
00:18:41.245 --> 00:18:43.080
Alright, you may be seated.

364
00:18:43.122 --> 00:18:45.624
The matter is before the court
on the government's motion

365
00:18:45.666 --> 00:18:48.461
for detention.
Mr. Brosnahan.

366
00:18:48.502 --> 00:18:50.296
Brosnahan: Thank you.

367
00:18:50.337 --> 00:18:52.798
John Walker Lindh was
transported to the front lines

368
00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:56.135
to fight the Northern Alliance
on the 6th of September

369
00:18:56.177 --> 00:18:58.471
of last year, 2001.

370
00:18:58.512 --> 00:18:59.722
He was there in the front lines

371
00:18:59.764 --> 00:19:02.099
until they broke
in early November.

372
00:19:02.141 --> 00:19:06.103
Your Honor,
he never fought with al-Qaeda.

373
00:19:06.145 --> 00:19:09.815
He never had anything to do
with terrorist activity.

374
00:19:09.857 --> 00:19:11.692
As to the Taliban
who he was with,

375
00:19:11.734 --> 00:19:14.361
United States government itself

376
00:19:14.403 --> 00:19:16.739
had prior dealings
with the Taliban.

377
00:19:16.781 --> 00:19:19.450
In fact, as of
the 10th of September,

378
00:19:19.492 --> 00:19:22.077
there was not a single person
in the United States government

379
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:24.622
that had any idea
that we would be engaged

380
00:19:24.663 --> 00:19:27.208
in military operations
in Afghanistan.

381
00:19:27.249 --> 00:19:31.420
John Walker Lindh
has never been in trouble.

382
00:19:31.462 --> 00:19:34.131
He doesn't drink.
He doesn't take drugs.

383
00:19:34.173 --> 00:19:35.883
He is a religious person

384
00:19:35.925 --> 00:19:39.094
who follows the teaching of
the church that he has adopted.

385
00:19:39.136 --> 00:19:41.472
He has parents who are here
in the courtroom.

386
00:19:41.514 --> 00:19:42.848
Thank you.

387
00:19:42.890 --> 00:19:44.433
Judge: Alright.

388
00:19:44.475 --> 00:19:46.018
The defendant has no social
or economic stability.

389
00:19:46.060 --> 00:19:48.771
His record of gainful employment
is limited

390
00:19:48.813 --> 00:19:51.857
to a 3-week stint at a warehouse
some two years ago.

391
00:19:51.899 --> 00:19:54.443
The defendant has lived
outside of the United States

392
00:19:54.485 --> 00:19:58.364
from May of 1998
to February of 1999,

393
00:19:58.405 --> 00:19:59.824
while in Yemen.

394
00:19:59.865 --> 00:20:01.534
And in Pakistan
and then Afghanistan

395
00:20:01.575 --> 00:20:04.954
from February of 2000 until
brought in to this district

396
00:20:04.995 --> 00:20:07.289
on January 23rd of this year.

397
00:20:07.331 --> 00:20:10.835
I conclude, based on clear
and convincing evidence,

398
00:20:10.876 --> 00:20:13.879
that if released, he poses
a danger to the community.

399
00:20:13.921 --> 00:20:16.257
And accordingly,
I grant the government's motion

400
00:20:16.298 --> 00:20:18.884
that the defendant
be detained for trial.

401
00:20:20.094 --> 00:20:23.013
Ashcroft: It is extraordinary
for the United States

402
00:20:23.055 --> 00:20:26.225
to have to charge
one of its own citizens

403
00:20:26.267 --> 00:20:30.855
with aiding and conspiring with
international terrorist groups

404
00:20:30.896 --> 00:20:35.192
whose agenda is
to kill Americans.

405
00:20:35.234 --> 00:20:39.697
Today, a grand jury examined
the government's case

406
00:20:39.738 --> 00:20:42.908
and saw fit to charge
John Walker Lindh

407
00:20:42.950 --> 00:20:47.121
with 10 serious crimes,
based in part

408
00:20:47.162 --> 00:20:52.626
on voluntary statements
made by Lindh himself.

409
00:20:52.668 --> 00:20:56.839
I think the American people
probably want

410
00:20:56.881 --> 00:20:59.717
the attorney general
to focus on those people

411
00:20:59.758 --> 00:21:03.429
who really did the harm
to this nation.

412
00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:04.763
I think the American people

413
00:21:04.805 --> 00:21:07.892
probably want
the attorney general

414
00:21:07.933 --> 00:21:09.852
and we know our people
are doing the best

415
00:21:09.894 --> 00:21:13.063
that we can to find
Osama bin Laden,

416
00:21:13.105 --> 00:21:17.067
to find Omar and to find someone
who sent the anthrax.

417
00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:19.570
We understand they're doing
the best they can

418
00:21:19.612 --> 00:21:20.779
and we're with them on that.

419
00:21:20.821 --> 00:21:23.115
We hope all of that
is successful.

420
00:21:23.157 --> 00:21:25.826
But meanwhile, I'd ask
the attorney general

421
00:21:25.868 --> 00:21:28.454
to not take it out
on John Lindh,

422
00:21:28.495 --> 00:21:32.458
because in my view and I'm not
gonna take any questions,

423
00:21:32.499 --> 00:21:37.755
in my view, they have brought up
the cannon to shoot the mouse.

424
00:21:37.796 --> 00:21:40.799
Thank you very much
for being here. Thank you.

425
00:21:40.841 --> 00:21:45.304



426
00:21:45.346 --> 00:21:46.847
[ Money rustles ]

427
00:21:57.816 --> 00:22:00.945
Radack: He was our first
terrorism prosecution

428
00:22:00.986 --> 00:22:04.406
after 9/11.

429
00:22:04.448 --> 00:22:08.160
[ Explosion,
people screaming ]

430
00:22:08.202 --> 00:22:18.128



431
00:22:18.170 --> 00:22:28.138



432
00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:30.849
President George W. Bush:
Make no mistake,

433
00:22:30.891 --> 00:22:36.355
the United States will hunt
down and punish

434
00:22:36.397 --> 00:22:37.815
those responsible.

435
00:22:37.856 --> 00:22:40.317
The people who knocked
these buildings down

436
00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:42.027
will hear all of us soon.

437
00:22:42.069 --> 00:22:44.697
[ Cheers and applause ]

438
00:22:44.738 --> 00:22:48.409
[ Sirens blaring ]

439
00:22:48.450 --> 00:22:58.002



440
00:22:58.043 --> 00:23:07.511



441
00:23:07.553 --> 00:23:11.849
Pelton: One thing that's changed
dramatically was before 9/11,

442
00:23:11.890 --> 00:23:16.228
I can visit
or be with any group on Earth.

443
00:23:16.270 --> 00:23:18.188
The FBI wouldn't knock
on my door.

444
00:23:18.230 --> 00:23:21.567
People wouldn't call me
a communist or a terrorist

445
00:23:21.608 --> 00:23:23.193
or whatever.

446
00:23:23.235 --> 00:23:26.071
After 9/11, it just, "Vshoo."
It just polarized.

447
00:23:26.113 --> 00:23:29.241
And there was no trying
to explain to people.

448
00:23:29.283 --> 00:23:31.493
Like, "Okay, but these guys
call themselves jihadis,

449
00:23:31.535 --> 00:23:33.037
but they're not really jihadis.

450
00:23:33.078 --> 00:23:34.747
And the guys that we're
paying money to are jihadis,

451
00:23:34.788 --> 00:23:36.206
but they don't say that

452
00:23:36.248 --> 00:23:37.583
because the CIA doesn't want
them to sa--"

453
00:23:37.624 --> 00:23:39.293
In other words,
it didn't change the world.

454
00:23:39.334 --> 00:23:43.047
It just changed
our perception of the world.

455
00:23:43.088 --> 00:23:46.383
Interviewer: How did you
come to do that?

456
00:23:46.425 --> 00:23:49.053
I was filming in all these
different insurgencies,

457
00:23:49.094 --> 00:23:51.555
so Afghanistan,
Philippines, Chechnya,

458
00:23:51.597 --> 00:23:52.931
and always on the wrong side,

459
00:23:52.973 --> 00:23:54.767
always on the rebel side
where they would say,

460
00:23:54.808 --> 00:23:55.976
"Come, we're winning,
we're winning."

461
00:23:56.018 --> 00:23:57.394
And I'd get there
and they'd say,

462
00:23:57.436 --> 00:23:58.729
"Oh, we're losing.
How did you get in here?"

463
00:23:58.771 --> 00:24:00.355
And I feel like, "Aw, shit."

464
00:24:00.397 --> 00:24:04.068
These are just
one tiny bit of my archives.

465
00:24:04.109 --> 00:24:07.404
I spent a lot of time
with what we call jihadis.

466
00:24:07.446 --> 00:24:09.073
I mean,
the John Walker Lindh thing --

467
00:24:09.114 --> 00:24:11.450
he's just one
of the many jihadis I've met.

468
00:24:11.492 --> 00:24:15.037



469
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:17.289
I'm the guy
that made them famous,

470
00:24:17.331 --> 00:24:20.959
but my main interest was
going back to Afghanistan,

471
00:24:21.001 --> 00:24:23.045
being with General Dostum,

472
00:24:23.087 --> 00:24:26.048
watching how Dostum fought
the Taliban,

473
00:24:26.090 --> 00:24:29.426
and it had a lot
of historical importance

474
00:24:29.468 --> 00:24:31.261
because this was after 9/11.
And don't forget,

475
00:24:31.303 --> 00:24:34.890
people didn't care about
Afghanistan until that point.

476
00:24:34.932 --> 00:24:37.935
Pres. George W. Bush:
This war on terrorism

477
00:24:37.976 --> 00:24:39.645
is gonna take a while.

478
00:24:39.686 --> 00:24:43.148
Anybody who's been associated
will be brought to justice.

479
00:24:43.190 --> 00:24:46.610
Those who harbor terrorists
will be brought to justice.

480
00:24:46.652 --> 00:24:47.986
It is time for us to win

481
00:24:48.028 --> 00:24:51.115
the first war
of the 21st century decisively.

482
00:24:51.156 --> 00:24:55.619



483
00:24:55.661 --> 00:24:56.995
Man: In this first wave,

484
00:24:57.037 --> 00:24:59.581
U.S. Special Forces hunt down
and root out

485
00:24:59.623 --> 00:25:02.459
Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda
terrorist network.

486
00:25:02.501 --> 00:25:04.044
Man: ...breakthrough today,

487
00:25:04.086 --> 00:25:06.213
opposition forces in Afghanistan

488
00:25:06.255 --> 00:25:09.174
captured the northern city
of Mazar-i-Sharif.

489
00:25:09.216 --> 00:25:12.594
500 Taliban fighters were
taken prisoner.

490
00:25:12.636 --> 00:25:14.888
Reporter #10: The bloody revolt
by Taliban prisoners

491
00:25:14.930 --> 00:25:16.348
in Mazar-i-Sharif,

492
00:25:16.390 --> 00:25:18.767
a town where the war
was supposed to be over,

493
00:25:18.809 --> 00:25:20.185
is grisly testament

494
00:25:20.227 --> 00:25:22.646
to the dangers that still
lie ahead.

495
00:25:22.688 --> 00:25:26.859
Rumsfeld: Anyone who thinks it's
over in those towns is wrong.

496
00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:30.863
It just isn't.
They are dangerous places.

497
00:25:30.904 --> 00:25:32.865
Pelton: Tell him I have
a gift for him.

498
00:25:32.906 --> 00:25:35.367
I know he's been
working hard,

499
00:25:35.409 --> 00:25:36.869
and he wants to relax.

500
00:25:36.910 --> 00:25:39.621
Pelton: So what I did was
basically hang out with Dostum.

501
00:25:39.663 --> 00:25:43.000
This is special medicine.

502
00:25:43.041 --> 00:25:45.002
And he had these
Special Forces guys with him.

503
00:25:45.043 --> 00:25:46.795
They lived in a house.

504
00:25:46.837 --> 00:25:48.839
And Dostum has a cameraman.

505
00:25:48.881 --> 00:25:50.883
He just films everything 24/7.

506
00:25:50.924 --> 00:25:54.428
And he showed me this video.
He says, "American, American."

507
00:25:54.469 --> 00:25:56.346
And so I go to Bill,
who's the medic,

508
00:25:56.388 --> 00:25:57.723
I said, "Bill, get your shit.

509
00:25:57.764 --> 00:25:59.600
There's a guy at the hospital.
He's an American."

510
00:25:59.641 --> 00:26:01.059
He said, "Holy shit."

511
00:26:01.101 --> 00:26:03.854
So there's about four of us
that went down

512
00:26:03.896 --> 00:26:05.689
to Sheberghan hospital.

513
00:26:05.731 --> 00:26:07.024
It's very cold outside.

514
00:26:07.065 --> 00:26:09.610
And there was a little
receiving area,

515
00:26:09.651 --> 00:26:12.654
which had a little stove
with a little wood fire in it.

516
00:26:12.696 --> 00:26:16.366
And as soon as I opened
the door,

517
00:26:16.408 --> 00:26:17.910
it was like, poof,
it's just the stink,

518
00:26:17.951 --> 00:26:20.746
just the smell
of all these humans.

519
00:26:20.787 --> 00:26:22.831
And it's everything
you can imagine.

520
00:26:22.873 --> 00:26:24.416
And I'm like, "Whoa."

521
00:26:24.458 --> 00:26:26.335
And I mean, it's gangrene
and it's fecal matter.

522
00:26:26.376 --> 00:26:31.006
It's sweat. It's B.O.
It's just like, "Oh."

523
00:26:31.048 --> 00:26:34.509
it looked like somebody had made
people up for a horror show.

524
00:26:34.551 --> 00:26:37.262
I mean, you know, because
they had black on their faces

525
00:26:37.304 --> 00:26:38.430
and their hair was like this

526
00:26:38.472 --> 00:26:41.058
and their clothes
were all raggedy.

527
00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:42.768
It looked like
some zombie movie.

528
00:26:42.809 --> 00:26:44.353
I mean,
and I've seen lots of war.

529
00:26:44.394 --> 00:26:46.063
And I just like,
"This is weird"

530
00:26:46.104 --> 00:26:49.066
because they're not wounded
per se.

531
00:26:49.107 --> 00:26:51.610
Man: What is your name?
American's name.

532
00:26:51.652 --> 00:26:53.862
Huh?
John?

533
00:26:53.904 --> 00:26:55.447
The father's name?

534
00:26:56.323 --> 00:26:58.575
Lindh?
Where you from?

535
00:26:58.617 --> 00:27:00.744
[ Inaudible ]

536
00:27:00.786 --> 00:27:02.120
Washington, D.C.?

537
00:27:02.162 --> 00:27:04.665
Which part
of Washington, D.C.?

538
00:27:04.706 --> 00:27:07.251
North.
Huh?

539
00:27:07.292 --> 00:27:09.878
Which part
of Washington, D.C.?

540
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.589
Open your eyes, huh?

541
00:27:12.631 --> 00:27:13.715
Northwest.

542
00:27:13.757 --> 00:27:15.425
What?
Northwest.

543
00:27:15.467 --> 00:27:16.760
Northwest?

544
00:27:16.802 --> 00:27:19.179
Northwest Washington, D.C.
No, no.

545
00:27:19.221 --> 00:27:22.266
How many months ago
you come in Afghanistan?

546
00:27:22.307 --> 00:27:24.101
Pelton: Can I -- Can I ask him
the questions?

547
00:27:24.142 --> 00:27:27.646
Hey, John, this is Robert Pelton
from CNN News.

548
00:27:27.688 --> 00:27:29.815
Yeah.

549
00:27:29.856 --> 00:27:31.650
Where -- where were you born?

550
00:27:35.028 --> 00:27:37.114
What?
Huh?

551
00:27:37.155 --> 00:27:38.782
Washington, D.C.

552
00:27:38.824 --> 00:27:40.325
Washington, D.C.?

553
00:27:40.367 --> 00:27:43.912
Can you tell us
if you have family in America?

554
00:27:46.164 --> 00:27:48.667
And what is your mother
and father's name?

555
00:27:48.709 --> 00:27:49.751
[ Mumbling ]

556
00:27:49.793 --> 00:27:51.253
Huh?

557
00:27:51.295 --> 00:27:53.588
What is your mother's
and father's name?

558
00:27:57.050 --> 00:27:58.677
I'm sorry?

559
00:27:58.719 --> 00:28:01.513
We want to contact them to
let you know you're still alive.

560
00:28:03.223 --> 00:28:04.391
Yes.

561
00:28:04.433 --> 00:28:06.852
Oh, we want to contact
your parents

562
00:28:06.893 --> 00:28:10.188
to let you -- let them know
you're still alive.

563
00:28:14.943 --> 00:28:18.030
You want -- Okay. You want
to talk to the Red Cross?

564
00:28:24.953 --> 00:28:27.331
So you want to speak
to the Red Cross?

565
00:28:36.381 --> 00:28:39.134
Would you like
an American-trained medic

566
00:28:39.176 --> 00:28:41.470
to look at you?

567
00:28:41.511 --> 00:28:43.472
John?

568
00:28:44.264 --> 00:28:45.807
Yes, they're here right now.

569
00:28:45.849 --> 00:28:47.726
What injuries do you have?

570
00:28:52.564 --> 00:28:54.232
Okay, so they have
your permission

571
00:28:54.274 --> 00:28:56.151
to take care of your wounds.

572
00:28:58.195 --> 00:28:59.780
Alright.

573
00:28:59.821 --> 00:29:01.573
So when I'm talking to Lindh,
the first thing I'm thinking is,

574
00:29:01.615 --> 00:29:03.116
"Okay, there's two things
are gonna happen.

575
00:29:03.158 --> 00:29:05.535
One is I've got to get him
a phone

576
00:29:05.577 --> 00:29:09.289
so he can talk to his parents
and tell him where he is."

577
00:29:09.331 --> 00:29:11.792
I was very concerned
about his disappearance,

578
00:29:11.833 --> 00:29:13.418
that he just, "Whoosh."

579
00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:15.629
Whether it be the Afghans
that did it or the Americans.

580
00:29:15.670 --> 00:29:18.507
And the second thing is, I got
to get him medical attention

581
00:29:18.548 --> 00:29:20.175
because they were just leaving
these guys on the floor

582
00:29:20.217 --> 00:29:22.511
and he was hypothermic, passing
in and out of consciousness.

583
00:29:22.552 --> 00:29:24.054
They want to put him
in another room.

584
00:29:24.096 --> 00:29:25.764
Okay, great, excellent.

585
00:29:25.806 --> 00:29:27.224
[ Indistinct conversations ]

586
00:29:27.265 --> 00:29:29.851
We're at the hospital
in Sheberghan,

587
00:29:29.893 --> 00:29:33.313
where they keep the wounded.

588
00:29:33.355 --> 00:29:36.525
And an American has been found
in the basement

589
00:29:36.566 --> 00:29:38.860
of Qala-i-Jangi prison
and brought here.

590
00:29:38.902 --> 00:29:41.154
Wray:
When you ask yourself why,

591
00:29:41.196 --> 00:29:45.575
what is it that differentiates
this story

592
00:29:45.617 --> 00:29:48.203
from any of many
other narratives

593
00:29:48.245 --> 00:29:50.372
that have come out
of these years and years

594
00:29:50.414 --> 00:29:52.707
and years of conflict?

595
00:29:52.749 --> 00:29:58.130
It really comes down to the fact
that this was one of ours.

596
00:29:58.171 --> 00:30:01.216
It comes down
to the idea of treason.

597
00:30:01.258 --> 00:30:06.471
Why is treason worse
than any other crime?

598
00:30:06.513 --> 00:30:09.474
What is it about treason
that makes it something

599
00:30:09.516 --> 00:30:12.561
that we all feel
such loathing towards?

600
00:30:12.602 --> 00:30:16.690
I mean, I can feel...
the reasons for it,

601
00:30:16.731 --> 00:30:20.152
but I can't necessarily
intellectually grasp

602
00:30:20.193 --> 00:30:21.862
the reasons for it.

603
00:30:21.903 --> 00:30:25.866
I mean, in some ways, maybe
it comes down to this idea of

604
00:30:25.907 --> 00:30:31.455
"We expected this of you
and instead you did this.

605
00:30:31.496 --> 00:30:33.665
We were relying on you for this,

606
00:30:33.707 --> 00:30:36.001
but instead you did
this other thing."

607
00:30:36.042 --> 00:30:38.795
But who was relying on John
Walker Lindh, on this kid --

608
00:30:38.837 --> 00:30:41.965
this teenage kid
from Northern California,

609
00:30:42.007 --> 00:30:47.679
who played no role of any
significance in society

610
00:30:47.721 --> 00:30:51.516
or even as far as I can tell,
in his circle of friends,

611
00:30:51.558 --> 00:30:53.727
insofar as he had any?

612
00:30:53.768 --> 00:30:56.771
What on earth did we expect
of John Walker Lindh

613
00:30:56.813 --> 00:30:58.773
that he didn't give us?

614
00:31:01.485 --> 00:31:03.361
[ Man speaking Arabic ]

615
00:31:05.530 --> 00:31:08.366
Pelton: And there was this
moment of shock

616
00:31:08.408 --> 00:31:11.703
where one
of the Afghan doctors --

617
00:31:11.745 --> 00:31:14.873
You could see this round
impression

618
00:31:14.915 --> 00:31:16.333
of something in his pocket,

619
00:31:16.374 --> 00:31:17.834
and we all sort of involuntarily
all went back

620
00:31:17.876 --> 00:31:19.794
because it's about
the size of a grenade

621
00:31:19.836 --> 00:31:21.880
that they were blowing
themselves up with.

622
00:31:21.922 --> 00:31:23.882
And I suddenly went
from being like, you know,

623
00:31:23.924 --> 00:31:26.092
guy trying to help somebody
to thinking,

624
00:31:26.134 --> 00:31:29.346
"Oh, Jesus, how stupid you are."

625
00:31:29.387 --> 00:31:31.723
What is this?
Huh?

626
00:31:33.433 --> 00:31:35.644
Orange?
[ Speaking Arabic ]

627
00:31:38.063 --> 00:31:40.732
Wray:
I think that John Lindh

628
00:31:40.774 --> 00:31:43.527
very desperately
wanted medical attention.

629
00:31:43.568 --> 00:31:46.571
I think he knew
he was in trouble.

630
00:31:46.613 --> 00:31:50.951
And in spite of the desperate
nature of his situation,

631
00:31:50.992 --> 00:31:54.120
and in spite of how easy it
would have been to simply say,

632
00:31:54.162 --> 00:31:56.623
"I'm an American, please get me
out of here, please.

633
00:31:56.665 --> 00:31:59.251
I'd like to be airlifted
out of here now,"

634
00:31:59.292 --> 00:32:00.585
he did no such thing.

635
00:32:00.627 --> 00:32:01.836
Pelton: John,
is there some way

636
00:32:01.878 --> 00:32:03.171
we can contact your parents
for you?

637
00:32:03.213 --> 00:32:04.756
You have a number?

638
00:32:07.926 --> 00:32:10.595
CNN.
News organization.

639
00:32:14.641 --> 00:32:16.935
Okay, that's not a concern
right now.

640
00:32:16.977 --> 00:32:19.354
Our concern is
your welfare.

641
00:32:23.775 --> 00:32:25.068
Okay.

642
00:32:25.110 --> 00:32:28.238
Pelton: And he says, "No.
I don't care, though."

643
00:32:28.280 --> 00:32:29.948
I mean...

644
00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:31.783
[ Chuckles ]

645
00:32:31.825 --> 00:32:33.785
If you're gonna be
a war photographer

646
00:32:33.827 --> 00:32:35.954
and ask everybody,
"Hey, excuse, guys,

647
00:32:35.996 --> 00:32:37.122
can I take a shot here?

648
00:32:37.163 --> 00:32:38.832
Not yet.
Don't bayonet that guy.

649
00:32:38.873 --> 00:32:40.750
Can I just -- can
I get the new lens...?"

650
00:32:40.792 --> 00:32:42.419
No, it doesn't work that way.

651
00:32:42.460 --> 00:32:43.753
Shit happens, you roll.

652
00:32:43.795 --> 00:32:46.756
And whether he wants
to be filmed or not,

653
00:32:46.798 --> 00:32:48.466
we're all in the war together,
I'm rollin',

654
00:32:48.508 --> 00:32:50.427
you don't have to talk.

655
00:32:50.468 --> 00:32:52.262
Blow yourself up for all I care.

656
00:32:52.304 --> 00:32:53.430
I'll still keep rolling.

657
00:32:53.471 --> 00:32:56.016
John, where does it hurt?

658
00:33:00.770 --> 00:33:01.813
Okay, Abdul.

659
00:33:01.855 --> 00:33:02.981
Abdul Hamid.

660
00:33:03.023 --> 00:33:04.065
Okay, Abdul Hamid.

661
00:33:04.107 --> 00:33:06.693
My name is Bill.

662
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.489
You ever had
an I.V. before?

663
00:33:14.659 --> 00:33:17.787
Really?

664
00:33:17.829 --> 00:33:19.331
Since you have
been fighting,

665
00:33:19.372 --> 00:33:20.665
you've had many I.V.s?

666
00:33:23.793 --> 00:33:25.837
How old are you,
Abdul Hamid?

667
00:33:27.464 --> 00:33:28.965
You're 20 years old?

668
00:33:29.007 --> 00:33:31.843
Pelton: Abdul, can I ask
how you ended up here?

669
00:33:34.888 --> 00:33:36.473
I'd love to hear it.

670
00:33:36.514 --> 00:33:39.684
The I.V. I'm giving you,
it has calories.

671
00:33:39.726 --> 00:33:41.728
It'll give you some energy.
Alright?

672
00:33:41.770 --> 00:33:43.355
It'll also replace
some of the blood

673
00:33:43.396 --> 00:33:45.315
that you may have lost.

674
00:33:45.357 --> 00:33:46.983
Let's see
the rest of your wounds.

675
00:33:48.193 --> 00:33:51.404
You said that you have
a bullet wound in your leg?

676
00:33:54.741 --> 00:33:57.077
The bullet is probably
still inside there.

677
00:34:09.589 --> 00:34:10.799
Okay.

678
00:34:12.384 --> 00:34:14.761
How long ago was this?

679
00:34:17.555 --> 00:34:19.891
A week in the past?
Yeah.

680
00:34:22.102 --> 00:34:24.396
You have a slight accent.

681
00:34:29.359 --> 00:34:31.319
How did you get
to Afghanistan?

682
00:35:01.641 --> 00:35:03.351
Do you have
any military skills

683
00:35:03.393 --> 00:35:04.644
or you just were...?

684
00:35:06.104 --> 00:35:08.356
Pelton: This one singular guy
after 9/11

685
00:35:08.398 --> 00:35:10.692
was the face of everything evil.

686
00:35:10.734 --> 00:35:12.694
And, you know,
Qala-i-Jangi was part of that

687
00:35:12.736 --> 00:35:15.613
because the setting
was so brutal,

688
00:35:15.655 --> 00:35:19.576
it almost seemed like
it was 9/11 redux, you know?

689
00:35:19.617 --> 00:35:21.453
After this is all done,
how do you feel?

690
00:35:21.494 --> 00:35:23.788
You feel like
you were sort of...

691
00:35:23.830 --> 00:35:25.623
you did the right thing
or...

692
00:35:28.168 --> 00:35:29.419
Well, do you feel now

693
00:35:29.461 --> 00:35:31.546
after there's been
a number of losses

694
00:35:31.588 --> 00:35:33.631
on the Taliban side...

695
00:35:39.929 --> 00:35:41.598
Mm-hmm. Could you explain
that to me

696
00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:43.558
because I'm very
interested in that?

697
00:35:46.853 --> 00:35:51.983



698
00:36:56.089 --> 00:36:57.966
Were you with the Taliban
all the time

699
00:36:58.007 --> 00:37:00.218
or were you doing
something else?

700
00:37:16.276 --> 00:37:18.736
[ Yelling in Arabic ]

701
00:37:24.701 --> 00:37:27.036
Where you from?

702
00:37:27.078 --> 00:37:28.913
Where you from?

703
00:37:32.458 --> 00:37:34.002
Pakistan?

704
00:37:34.043 --> 00:37:40.425



705
00:37:40.466 --> 00:37:47.515



706
00:37:55.148 --> 00:37:57.108
Bill: I'm giving you
morphine now, okay?

707
00:37:57.150 --> 00:37:58.693
It's gonna take away
a lot of the pain.

708
00:37:58.735 --> 00:38:00.612
-Happy juice.
-[ Sighs ]

709
00:38:05.408 --> 00:38:07.285
...so as soon
as we arrived...

710
00:38:24.093 --> 00:38:25.303
[ Explosion ]

711
00:38:25.345 --> 00:38:32.435



712
00:38:32.477 --> 00:38:39.984



713
00:38:56.501 --> 00:38:58.378
Pelton: Keep in mind that
there's two kinds of people

714
00:38:58.419 --> 00:39:00.129
in that basement --

715
00:39:00.171 --> 00:39:01.923
"Okay, I lost, game's over.
[Hands clap] Time to go home."

716
00:39:01.965 --> 00:39:04.926
And there were people who wanted
to kill Americans.

717
00:39:04.968 --> 00:39:06.427
Man #2: Why do you come
to Afghanistan?

718
00:39:06.469 --> 00:39:12.558
I come from jihad
against the terrorism of USA.

719
00:39:12.600 --> 00:39:14.268
We are not surrender.

720
00:39:14.310 --> 00:39:16.187
We are not surrender.

721
00:39:16.229 --> 00:39:18.356
No, you're prisoners.

722
00:39:18.398 --> 00:39:19.774
Yeah, it's no problem.

723
00:39:19.816 --> 00:39:21.693
All is fair in love and war.

724
00:39:23.152 --> 00:39:27.365
Pelton: So they pushed all 460
guys down into this basement

725
00:39:27.407 --> 00:39:29.784
and down in the basement
are five rooms, basically.

726
00:39:29.826 --> 00:39:31.786
There's an entry way,
you come down the stairs

727
00:39:31.828 --> 00:39:33.913
and then there's like, room,
room, room, room,

728
00:39:33.955 --> 00:39:35.790
and there's a big room
in the back

729
00:39:35.832 --> 00:39:37.333
with a couple of alcoves.

730
00:39:37.375 --> 00:39:41.963
And what I learned later
from interviewing

731
00:39:42.005 --> 00:39:44.298
the people
that were in the basement

732
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:46.384
was that basically the Arabs
and the Arab speaking

733
00:39:46.426 --> 00:39:48.886
went to the back room
because there were more of them.

734
00:39:48.928 --> 00:39:50.722
There were Russians, there was
Sudanese, whatever.

735
00:39:50.763 --> 00:39:53.057
And these guys are al-Qaeda.

736
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:56.060
They were all Arab-speaking
volunteers who had met

737
00:39:56.102 --> 00:39:58.479
many other places
all around the world.

738
00:39:58.521 --> 00:40:00.815
And I thought, "Wow,
this is the hard core.

739
00:40:00.857 --> 00:40:02.734
These are the guys
that came here to die."

740
00:40:02.775 --> 00:40:05.903
And then the Pakistanis sort of
stayed in the side rooms

741
00:40:05.945 --> 00:40:07.405
and that the conversation

742
00:40:07.447 --> 00:40:09.824
was basically the Pakistanis
wanted to go home.

743
00:40:09.866 --> 00:40:11.909
"Hey, guys,
don't cause any problems."

744
00:40:11.951 --> 00:40:13.411
And the Saudis
and the foreigners

745
00:40:13.453 --> 00:40:15.621
who were speaking Arabic
were trying to figure out

746
00:40:15.663 --> 00:40:17.248
what to do,
and they had weapons.

747
00:40:17.290 --> 00:40:19.584
They had these grenades
they brought down with them,

748
00:40:19.625 --> 00:40:23.087
which they -- which
they used shoelaces to tie

749
00:40:23.129 --> 00:40:25.131
and then dangle right around
their crotch

750
00:40:25.173 --> 00:40:26.382
because they knew

751
00:40:26.424 --> 00:40:29.719
that they wouldn't be patted
in the crotch.

752
00:40:29.761 --> 00:40:31.721
So they spent the night
down there.

753
00:40:31.763 --> 00:40:33.097
And then the next morning

754
00:40:33.139 --> 00:40:36.768
is when most people think
of the uprising.

755
00:40:36.809 --> 00:40:39.228
I mean, um,

756
00:40:39.270 --> 00:40:41.564
the war seemed more
or less over.

757
00:40:41.606 --> 00:40:45.735
All of us, we had the feeling
we missed the war.

758
00:40:45.777 --> 00:40:48.237
Where you from?

759
00:40:48.279 --> 00:40:49.989
Where you from?

760
00:40:51.657 --> 00:40:52.950
May we ask you
a question?

761
00:40:52.992 --> 00:40:54.952
[ Horn honking repeatedly ]

762
00:40:54.994 --> 00:40:56.704
[ Speaks indistinctly ]
No.

763
00:40:56.746 --> 00:40:58.039
No cameras.
Can we ask...

764
00:40:58.081 --> 00:41:00.541
No questions?
[ Speaks indistinctly ]

765
00:41:00.583 --> 00:41:02.460
Man #3: For the safety of us
and our family back home.

766
00:41:02.502 --> 00:41:03.920
Huh?

767
00:41:03.961 --> 00:41:06.297
For the safety of us
and our family back home.

768
00:41:06.339 --> 00:41:08.800
Just for the safety
of your families back home,

769
00:41:08.841 --> 00:41:11.803
you don't want to talk?
Okay.

770
00:41:19.977 --> 00:41:22.522
Stauth: I remember Dostum
appearing there

771
00:41:22.563 --> 00:41:27.652
and then telling everyone,
"And now let's go to Kunduz,"

772
00:41:27.693 --> 00:41:29.487
because the story then was

773
00:41:29.529 --> 00:41:33.825
10,000 remaining Taliban
to surrender.

774
00:41:33.866 --> 00:41:37.662
So the main force
of his warriors,

775
00:41:37.703 --> 00:41:39.997
they followed him to Kunduz.

776
00:41:43.251 --> 00:41:47.880
And they left the 500 Taliban
back in Qala-i-Jangi

777
00:41:47.922 --> 00:41:52.135
near Mazar-i-Sharif,
without a lot of guards.

778
00:41:52.176 --> 00:41:54.512
They thought this is settled.

779
00:41:54.554 --> 00:42:00.101



780
00:42:00.143 --> 00:42:03.020
Stauth: An Uzbek general
of the Northern Alliance,

781
00:42:03.062 --> 00:42:06.482
he had provided us
with a bodyguard,

782
00:42:06.524 --> 00:42:08.442
he said,
"Do you still love your wife?"

783
00:42:08.484 --> 00:42:09.694
And I said, "Yes."

784
00:42:09.735 --> 00:42:11.612
"Then better don't go
to Kunduz."

785
00:42:11.654 --> 00:42:16.868



786
00:42:16.909 --> 00:42:18.619
[ Man singing in Arabic
on radio ]

787
00:42:18.661 --> 00:42:20.163
With my cameraman and producer,

788
00:42:20.204 --> 00:42:23.332
we went back to the small hotel

789
00:42:23.374 --> 00:42:27.211
where most of the journalists
at the time stayed.

790
00:42:27.253 --> 00:42:30.214
[Music from radio, honking,
whistle tooting]

791
00:42:30.256 --> 00:42:39.015



792
00:42:39.056 --> 00:42:47.398



793
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.401
I mean, we went to bed
the 24th with a feeling, okay,

794
00:42:50.443 --> 00:42:53.863
everyone's gonna have
a story, we won't have one.

795
00:42:55.448 --> 00:43:00.077
We had a long sleep and then
we sat together on the floor

796
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:03.164
having tea and bread
and we thought, "Okay,

797
00:43:03.206 --> 00:43:05.750
what are we going
to do with this day?"

798
00:43:05.791 --> 00:43:07.543
[ Horn honks ]

799
00:43:07.585 --> 00:43:12.089
"Why not go to Qala-i-Jangi
and meet the prisoners again?"

800
00:43:12.131 --> 00:43:14.592
No other journalists
would be there,

801
00:43:14.634 --> 00:43:17.094
but I'll be on the safe side.

802
00:43:21.307 --> 00:43:23.434
As a journalist,

803
00:43:23.476 --> 00:43:27.563
you're used to speed up things
and that morning,

804
00:43:27.605 --> 00:43:30.274
very, very fortunately,
we took it easy

805
00:43:30.316 --> 00:43:33.736
because we thought
we wouldn't have a story

806
00:43:33.778 --> 00:43:35.446
and we wasted a lot of time.

807
00:43:35.488 --> 00:43:39.909
And this wasted time in the end
probably saved our lives.

808
00:43:39.951 --> 00:43:41.410
There was another issue,

809
00:43:41.452 --> 00:43:43.996
problem,
which caused some of this.

810
00:43:44.038 --> 00:43:47.458
U.S. forces seize control
of Mazar-i-Sharif

811
00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:48.501
with General Dostum.

812
00:43:48.542 --> 00:43:50.127
And our team leader up
in the north,

813
00:43:50.169 --> 00:43:53.464
the CIA guy,
he goes with Dostum to Kunduz.

814
00:43:53.506 --> 00:43:56.300
Dostum now
has an eight-man CIA team.

815
00:43:56.342 --> 00:43:58.761
There's another commander there,
Commander Atta.

816
00:43:58.803 --> 00:44:00.763
So they make the decision
to take that CIA team

817
00:44:00.805 --> 00:44:02.056
and cut it in half.

818
00:44:02.098 --> 00:44:03.266
Half of it goes with Dostum

819
00:44:03.307 --> 00:44:04.850
and the other half
goes with Atta.

820
00:44:04.892 --> 00:44:08.479
So now you don't have
the same level of leadership

821
00:44:08.521 --> 00:44:11.983
and decision-making
and even capability.

822
00:44:12.024 --> 00:44:14.610
So Mike Spann and Dave Tyson

823
00:44:14.652 --> 00:44:17.655
were the guys that are off there
kind of on their own.

824
00:44:17.697 --> 00:44:24.245



825
00:44:24.287 --> 00:44:26.163
And they drive from Kunduz

826
00:44:26.205 --> 00:44:29.292
across northern Afghanistan
to Qala-i-Jangi,

827
00:44:29.333 --> 00:44:32.003
which is
this giant fortress prison.

828
00:44:34.213 --> 00:44:38.342
Stauth: So about 11:00,
we left for Qala-i-Jangi.

829
00:44:38.384 --> 00:44:42.346
Bernsten: Qala-i-Jangi is
an 1894 Vauban fort.

830
00:44:42.388 --> 00:44:45.683
Qala-i-Jangi is out of time.

831
00:44:45.725 --> 00:44:49.520
Qala-i-Jangi is a citadel
made of mud.

832
00:44:49.562 --> 00:44:51.522
Bernsten: It's not like real
Vauban fort with stone.

833
00:44:51.564 --> 00:44:53.858
It's made out of a cow poop
and mud, whatever.

834
00:44:53.899 --> 00:44:55.318
It was quite impressive.

835
00:44:55.359 --> 00:44:57.361
Degueldre:
The walls are so thick.

836
00:44:57.403 --> 00:45:01.699
Everything is a little
bit...unreal.

837
00:45:03.993 --> 00:45:06.579
Stauth: As we were not under
any pressure time-wise,

838
00:45:06.620 --> 00:45:08.998
my cameraman
and the Uzbek producer,

839
00:45:09.040 --> 00:45:12.126
they wanted to smoke
a cigarette.

840
00:45:12.168 --> 00:45:14.837
So we were waiting there,
the sun was shining,

841
00:45:14.879 --> 00:45:18.049
the birds were singing --
a very peaceful setting.

842
00:45:18.090 --> 00:45:21.385
And 10 minutes later,

843
00:45:21.427 --> 00:45:24.138
we would have been
in that courtyard

844
00:45:24.180 --> 00:45:25.890
to interview the prisoners.

845
00:45:25.931 --> 00:45:34.398



846
00:45:57.505 --> 00:46:05.513



847
00:46:05.554 --> 00:46:06.889
Bernsten:
Let me just say this,

848
00:46:06.931 --> 00:46:08.599
there were no procedures
for that.

849
00:46:08.641 --> 00:46:11.394
I don't think anybody had been
trained on what do you do

850
00:46:11.435 --> 00:46:13.896
on an open battlefield
where people --

851
00:46:13.938 --> 00:46:15.815
They had to assess
the situation on the ground

852
00:46:15.856 --> 00:46:17.358
and make a decision.

853
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:21.112
So Spann and Dave Tyson
are not as experienced;

854
00:46:21.153 --> 00:46:23.114
they're brave men.

855
00:46:23.155 --> 00:46:25.366
Spann had been a Marine officer.

856
00:46:25.408 --> 00:46:28.702
The decision they made
put themselves in grave risk.

857
00:46:28.744 --> 00:46:31.205
Pelton:
Mike Spann and Dave Tyson --

858
00:46:31.247 --> 00:46:32.957
their goal was to find people

859
00:46:32.998 --> 00:46:34.291
that could provide them
with intel.

860
00:46:34.333 --> 00:46:35.626
And they were looking
for bin Laden.

861
00:46:35.668 --> 00:46:37.628
They were looking
for bin Laden's group.

862
00:46:37.670 --> 00:46:40.756
So once again, we're back in
that whole who's who, you know?

863
00:46:40.798 --> 00:46:43.217
You've got Taliban,
you've got Uzbeks,

864
00:46:43.259 --> 00:46:45.636
you've got good guys, bad guys,
whatever.

865
00:46:45.678 --> 00:46:47.388
And somebody -- and nobody
knows who that is --

866
00:46:47.430 --> 00:46:48.973
was actually filming.

867
00:46:49.014 --> 00:46:50.641
See?
He's a terrorist.

868
00:46:50.683 --> 00:46:52.059
Yes.

869
00:46:52.101 --> 00:46:54.395
These men
are terrorists.

870
00:46:54.437 --> 00:46:55.938
These men
are terrorists.

871
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:57.314
All these men
are terrorists.

872
00:46:57.356 --> 00:46:58.691
I think you're
a terrorist.

873
00:46:58.732 --> 00:47:01.777
You come here to Afghanistan
to kill people.

874
00:47:01.819 --> 00:47:04.155
I don't -- I...

875
00:47:04.196 --> 00:47:06.740
Okay.
You want to talk to him?

876
00:47:06.782 --> 00:47:09.452
Okay. I'm with you.
Okay. Thank you.

877
00:47:09.493 --> 00:47:11.829
I'm with you and --
Wait. Wait.

878
00:47:11.871 --> 00:47:14.665
[ Indistinct conversations ]

879
00:47:20.212 --> 00:47:24.049
Pelton: When Spann was
asking the prisoners,

880
00:47:24.091 --> 00:47:25.217
"Does anybody speak English?"

881
00:47:25.259 --> 00:47:27.052
which sounds
like a comedy routine.

882
00:47:27.094 --> 00:47:28.679
He said, "Yeah,
there's an Irishman.

883
00:47:28.721 --> 00:47:31.682
So then that's how Lindh
got picked out of the lineup.

884
00:47:33.893 --> 00:47:37.480
The fact that Mike and Dave
had this blanket spread out

885
00:47:37.521 --> 00:47:41.317
in full view, like, 400
terrified or angry people was --

886
00:47:41.358 --> 00:47:44.278
It just meant there wasn't
somebody there

887
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:45.696
providing security.

888
00:47:45.738 --> 00:47:47.114
The Afghans didn't care.

889
00:47:58.584 --> 00:48:00.419
It was a major breach
of what you're supposed to do

890
00:48:00.461 --> 00:48:02.922
when you question prisoners,
I mean, that's obvious.

891
00:48:02.963 --> 00:48:05.090
You normally select a prisoner,

892
00:48:05.132 --> 00:48:07.885
take him away
to another facility.

893
00:48:07.927 --> 00:48:08.969
You have security there.

894
00:48:09.011 --> 00:48:10.221
You do whatever you have to do.

895
00:48:10.262 --> 00:48:11.764
You don't show your face.

896
00:48:12.473 --> 00:48:14.350
[ Speaks indistinctly ]

897
00:48:18.646 --> 00:48:20.439
He's just sitting there
with his hair flopped.

898
00:48:20.481 --> 00:48:23.234
He's not saying a word
and Spann is talking to him.

899
00:48:23.275 --> 00:48:24.527
Maybe not the most
diplomatic way,

900
00:48:24.568 --> 00:48:26.362
but he's clearly communicating

901
00:48:26.403 --> 00:48:28.322
that he's with
the American government

902
00:48:28.364 --> 00:48:30.324
and that he can help them
or whatever.

903
00:48:30.366 --> 00:48:32.535
And he's just mute.
He's mute, silent.

904
00:48:32.576 --> 00:48:35.746
Keep in mind, he had just been
in that basement.

905
00:48:35.788 --> 00:48:38.249
And I'm not gonna accuse him
of being part of the plot,

906
00:48:38.290 --> 00:48:41.252
but that basement was way
too small and he spoke Arabic.

907
00:48:41.293 --> 00:48:43.087
And there is no way
that he didn't know

908
00:48:43.128 --> 00:48:44.421
what was about to happen.

909
00:49:24.295 --> 00:49:26.880
Alison: He sealed his fate
in those moments

910
00:49:26.922 --> 00:49:30.050
when he chose to stay silent
and not say a word.

911
00:49:30.092 --> 00:49:31.927
He sealed his fate as a traitor

912
00:49:31.969 --> 00:49:35.306
and he sealed his fate
as someone who was responsible

913
00:49:35.347 --> 00:49:39.643
for the death of Mike Spann
in my eyes.

914
00:49:39.685 --> 00:49:41.437
That's all the evidence
I need.

915
00:49:41.478 --> 00:49:45.774
That's accessory...
at bare minimum.

916
00:49:46.984 --> 00:49:50.446
You will never make me believe
that he didn't know

917
00:49:50.487 --> 00:49:52.656
what was going
to happen that day,

918
00:49:52.698 --> 00:49:54.491
and you will never
make me believe

919
00:49:54.533 --> 00:49:57.244
that he didn't have a part
in my dad's death.

920
00:50:22.561 --> 00:50:25.022
-It's gonna hurt.
-They, uh...

921
00:50:38.744 --> 00:50:40.537
And, uh...

922
00:50:43.040 --> 00:50:44.875
[ Man yelling in Arabic ]

923
00:50:44.917 --> 00:50:47.503
There was a -- a bang,
some yelling,

924
00:50:47.544 --> 00:50:49.046
and then the tape goes to blue.
[ Hands scrape ]

925
00:50:49.088 --> 00:50:51.423
I've never figured out --
I was told two stories.

926
00:50:51.465 --> 00:50:53.634
One is that the tape
keeps rolling

927
00:50:53.676 --> 00:50:55.427
and that somebody erased it

928
00:50:55.469 --> 00:50:56.887
or that, no, the tape
just goes to blue

929
00:50:56.929 --> 00:50:58.806
because the camera fell
[Hands clap] or whatever.

930
00:50:58.847 --> 00:51:01.725
But that tape
was being shopped around.

931
00:51:01.767 --> 00:51:03.394
My cameraman,
for some strange reason,

932
00:51:03.435 --> 00:51:04.520
told the guy to bugger off.

933
00:51:04.561 --> 00:51:06.522
He didn't want to buy a tape.

934
00:51:06.563 --> 00:51:09.525
And I was tasked by Dostum
to go find that tape

935
00:51:09.566 --> 00:51:10.984
because that was
his intelligence tape

936
00:51:11.026 --> 00:51:14.071
and that might show
who did whatever happened.

937
00:51:14.113 --> 00:51:15.698
Well, in that event,

938
00:51:15.739 --> 00:51:20.369
that bang, that scuffle was
Mike Spann being killed.

939
00:51:20.411 --> 00:51:22.746
[ Man yelling in Arabic ]

940
00:51:23.997 --> 00:51:26.792
[ Explosion, gunfire ]

941
00:51:31.004 --> 00:51:33.882
[ Gunfire continues ]

942
00:52:04.663 --> 00:52:07.750
Pelton: So how did you --
You were there.

943
00:52:07.791 --> 00:52:10.043
Did you run -- did you stay
in the basement?

944
00:52:15.799 --> 00:52:17.301
[ Gunfire ]

945
00:52:17.342 --> 00:52:18.886
Stauth:
I grabbed my sat phone

946
00:52:18.927 --> 00:52:22.556
and ran into the main building
for shelter.

947
00:52:26.101 --> 00:52:27.603
[ Gunfire ]

948
00:52:27.644 --> 00:52:30.481
I set up my sat phone
on the ground

949
00:52:30.522 --> 00:52:32.524
to make some phone calls
to Germany.

950
00:52:32.566 --> 00:52:35.152
[ Speaks indistinctly ]

951
00:52:35.194 --> 00:52:37.529
[ Gunfire ]

952
00:52:43.410 --> 00:52:46.205
[ Gunfire continues ]

953
00:53:16.568 --> 00:53:18.695
[ All speaking Arabic ]

954
00:53:23.408 --> 00:53:26.954
[ Gunfire ]

955
00:53:28.747 --> 00:53:32.709
And so he called using
my satellite phone

956
00:53:32.751 --> 00:53:35.587
and our camera was running
while he was talking.

957
00:54:05.117 --> 00:54:07.119
[ Gunfire continues ]

958
00:54:12.875 --> 00:54:15.419
Bernsten: He called the U.S.
embassy in Uzbekistan.

959
00:54:15.460 --> 00:54:17.504
It was actually
a pretty smart move.

960
00:54:17.546 --> 00:54:18.881
That's how we all learned
so quickly.

961
00:54:18.922 --> 00:54:20.591
He got on the phone
and made that call out.

962
00:54:33.228 --> 00:54:34.771
[ Gunfire continues ]

963
00:55:04.176 --> 00:55:05.510
Tyson: Okay.

964
00:55:16.855 --> 00:55:19.149
[ Indistinct conversations ]

965
00:55:19.441 --> 00:55:23.654
Stauth: I learned
through Dave Tyson

966
00:55:23.695 --> 00:55:26.406
that the Northern Alliance
forces,

967
00:55:26.448 --> 00:55:30.827
they were taken by surprise,
that they were not prepared,

968
00:55:30.869 --> 00:55:34.873
and there were only around
100 of them.

969
00:55:35.958 --> 00:55:40.170
And the Taliban,
we knew they were about 500.

970
00:55:40.212 --> 00:55:44.132
Then we learned that the weapon
storage of Qala-i-Jangi

971
00:55:44.174 --> 00:55:47.344
was in the courtyard
where the Taliban were.

972
00:55:47.386 --> 00:55:50.180
And then I really --
I started thinking,

973
00:55:50.222 --> 00:55:53.517
"Oh, shit, we are in trouble.
We're in bad trouble."

974
00:55:53.558 --> 00:55:55.352
[ Gunfire ]

975
00:55:55.394 --> 00:56:02.901



976
00:56:11.785 --> 00:56:13.704
[ Gunfire continues ]

977
00:56:19.251 --> 00:56:23.046
At the time,
I didn't know the name of Spann.

978
00:56:25.173 --> 00:56:28.552
I mean, there were obviously
dozens killed,

979
00:56:28.593 --> 00:56:31.722
Afghans, Taliban,

980
00:56:31.763 --> 00:56:34.850
and in addition, an American.

981
00:56:34.891 --> 00:56:37.728
I thought, "My God,
why did they do it?

982
00:56:37.769 --> 00:56:39.896
Why did they have to die?"

983
00:56:41.606 --> 00:56:43.358
Bernsten: Many of my guys
want to get on a helicopter

984
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:44.526
and fly up there.

985
00:56:44.568 --> 00:56:46.862
I tell them,
"No, you cannot go.

986
00:56:46.903 --> 00:56:48.739
The military is closer.

987
00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:51.908
The military is gonna help."

988
00:56:51.950 --> 00:56:53.744
A lot of my guys
were very, very close

989
00:56:53.785 --> 00:56:57.122
to Mike Spann and Dave Tyson,
and they're upset with me.

990
00:56:57.164 --> 00:57:00.000
[ Gunfire ]

991
00:57:00.042 --> 00:57:03.462
We were hoping for choppers
to land on the roof

992
00:57:03.503 --> 00:57:07.132
to happily climb the chopper
and get out of the chopper.

993
00:57:07.174 --> 00:57:10.761
Instead,
we saw high in the sky,

994
00:57:10.802 --> 00:57:13.847
the white traces
of fighter jets.

995
00:57:13.889 --> 00:57:15.557
Tyson: Hey, guys.
Time to go, huh?

996
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.727
It's time to go.
-Wait. Wait.

997
00:57:18.769 --> 00:57:20.937
Stauth:
My headquarters called my wife

998
00:57:20.979 --> 00:57:23.690
to tell her, "Arnim is
in some kind of trouble."

999
00:57:23.732 --> 00:57:26.651
[ Gunfire ]

1000
00:57:26.693 --> 00:57:29.654
[ Yelling in Arabic ]

1001
00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:33.867
[ Explosions ]

1002
00:57:47.839 --> 00:57:50.133
[ Gunfire ]

1003
00:58:03.021 --> 00:58:04.564
Hey!

1004
00:58:04.606 --> 00:58:12.823



1005
00:58:12.864 --> 00:58:15.325
[ Gunfire continues ]

1006
00:58:20.080 --> 00:58:23.166
We just tried to get away
from this fortress

1007
00:58:23.208 --> 00:58:26.878
as far as possible
and as quickly as possible.

1008
00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:31.174
And then about 500 meters away
under a tree,

1009
00:58:31.216 --> 00:58:34.261
there was a minibus
and the guy standing there

1010
00:58:34.302 --> 00:58:36.763
turned out to be
the press speaker

1011
00:58:36.805 --> 00:58:38.348
of General Dostum.

1012
00:58:38.390 --> 00:58:42.018
And he finally took us,
including Dave Tyson,

1013
00:58:42.060 --> 00:58:44.688
took us back to Mazar-i-Sharif.

1014
00:58:44.729 --> 00:58:46.940
[ Gunfire in distance ]

1015
00:58:49.401 --> 00:58:51.153
Pelton: It was only during
that night

1016
00:58:51.194 --> 00:58:52.863
when they had night vision,

1017
00:58:52.904 --> 00:58:54.531
they realized that there was
like a central gathering point.

1018
00:58:54.573 --> 00:58:57.325
There was a mosque and there was
this pink building,

1019
00:58:57.367 --> 00:59:00.036
and then there were all these
little cubbyholes on the sides.

1020
00:59:00.078 --> 00:59:01.913
They were running in there
to grab all these weapons

1021
00:59:01.955 --> 00:59:03.331
and firing them at people,
whatever.

1022
00:59:03.373 --> 00:59:05.542
And it was that night
that people realized,

1023
00:59:05.584 --> 00:59:07.586
"Okay, this is a real mess."

1024
00:59:07.627 --> 00:59:10.130
This inverted siege begins

1025
00:59:10.172 --> 00:59:11.882
because not only did
they break out,

1026
00:59:11.923 --> 00:59:13.049
they overtake the army.

1027
00:59:13.091 --> 00:59:14.384
Now they got RPGs and heavy guns

1028
00:59:14.426 --> 00:59:17.053
and they're fighting
from the inside.

1029
00:59:17.095 --> 00:59:19.097
Dostum's people are fighting
from the outside.

1030
00:59:19.139 --> 00:59:21.266
Airstrikes were called in.

1031
00:59:21.308 --> 00:59:24.686
I mean,
this is a bloody knife fight

1032
00:59:24.728 --> 00:59:28.106
at close range for several days.

1033
00:59:30.233 --> 00:59:32.235
Reporter #11: By Monday,
the firefight so fierce,

1034
00:59:32.277 --> 00:59:35.864
U.S. Special Forces on the scene
had to call in airstrikes.

1035
00:59:35.906 --> 00:59:37.157
[ Explosion ]

1036
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:40.035
But one U.S. bomb
missed its target.

1037
00:59:40.076 --> 00:59:42.829
Man: Turn the cameras off!

1038
00:59:42.871 --> 00:59:44.247
Man #5: Are you okay?

1039
00:59:44.289 --> 00:59:45.874
You know, as journalists,
we're running around

1040
00:59:45.916 --> 00:59:47.751
like headless chickens.
We have no idea what's going on.

1041
00:59:47.792 --> 00:59:50.921
Yeah.
[ Speaks indistinctly ]

1042
00:59:50.962 --> 00:59:53.506
Reporter #12: The bloody battle
may now be coming to an end.

1043
00:59:53.548 --> 00:59:57.260
Perry: It took forever --
from Sunday until Friday.

1044
00:59:57.302 --> 01:00:01.848
It was, you know, Groundhog Day,
every day.

1045
01:00:01.890 --> 01:00:05.101
Dan Rather: Some images of war
savagery have the power

1046
01:00:05.143 --> 01:00:07.771
to haunt and burn themselves

1047
01:00:07.812 --> 01:00:11.358
into the world's
collective memory.

1048
01:00:11.399 --> 01:00:14.611
Perry: It's my first experience
of combat.

1049
01:00:14.653 --> 01:00:16.446
I was totally adrenalized.

1050
01:00:16.488 --> 01:00:18.949
You suddenly get this kind of
tunnel vision of where you are.

1051
01:00:18.990 --> 01:00:21.284
[ Gunfire ]

1052
01:00:21.326 --> 01:00:22.786
Pelton: There are a lot
of things going on,

1053
01:00:22.827 --> 01:00:24.788
and there are a lot of media
rumors flying around.

1054
01:00:24.829 --> 01:00:27.624
"Let's get that Pulitzer
with that mass-murder story."

1055
01:00:27.666 --> 01:00:29.501
And don't forget, there's
an electric feeling in there

1056
01:00:29.542 --> 01:00:30.961
because of all
those dead bodies.

1057
01:00:31.002 --> 01:00:32.963
Man: ...bloody,
week-long uprising

1058
01:00:33.004 --> 01:00:34.756
Reporter #14:
Dozens of Taliban forces

1059
01:00:34.798 --> 01:00:36.925
were seen today with their hands
tied behind their backs,

1060
01:00:36.967 --> 01:00:38.635
suggesting an execution.

1061
01:00:38.677 --> 01:00:41.304
Pelton: And that communicated to
some of the media

1062
01:00:41.346 --> 01:00:45.267
that somebody
was massacring prisoners.

1063
01:00:45.308 --> 01:00:46.935
And they were.
They were shooting --

1064
01:00:46.977 --> 01:00:49.062
I mean, they were running around
trying to untie each other

1065
01:00:49.104 --> 01:00:50.313
with their teeth
or whatever,

1066
01:00:50.355 --> 01:00:51.815
and there were people shooting
at them.

1067
01:00:51.856 --> 01:00:53.650
[ Rocket launcher shoots ]

1068
01:00:56.778 --> 01:00:58.196
Billingsley: Bodies everywhere.

1069
01:00:58.238 --> 01:01:01.283
You know, I don't know,
100, 200 bodies,

1070
01:01:01.324 --> 01:01:04.661
and you knew out there
somewhere was also Mike Spann.

1071
01:01:06.621 --> 01:01:08.331
Jennings: The CIA did something
unusual today.

1072
01:01:08.373 --> 01:01:10.500
It confirmed
in a very public way

1073
01:01:10.542 --> 01:01:13.169
that one of its agents
had been killed in Afghanistan.

1074
01:01:13.211 --> 01:01:16.339
The unusual step not only
of acknowledging

1075
01:01:16.381 --> 01:01:18.425
that one of its operatives
have been killed,

1076
01:01:18.466 --> 01:01:21.636
but naming him
and issuing a press release.

1077
01:01:21.678 --> 01:01:23.805
Reporter #15: He was killed,
they say, on Sunday.

1078
01:01:23.847 --> 01:01:29.394
It wasn't safe or possible
to get his body out until today.

1079
01:01:33.356 --> 01:01:36.067
Pelton: The basement --
This is very famous now --

1080
01:01:36.109 --> 01:01:38.069
of what they call
the pink house.

1081
01:01:38.111 --> 01:01:41.156
The pink house is actually
a bomb shelter.

1082
01:01:42.407 --> 01:01:43.700
Billingsley:
The guys we were next to,

1083
01:01:43.742 --> 01:01:45.201
they were shooting down
the basement,

1084
01:01:45.243 --> 01:01:47.037
you know, their AKs
through the windows.

1085
01:01:47.078 --> 01:01:49.247
We had no idea there's
a whole bunch in the basement.

1086
01:01:49.289 --> 01:01:51.041
It suddenly became apparent
that they were down

1087
01:01:51.082 --> 01:01:52.375
in the dungeon.
There was a little window.

1088
01:01:52.417 --> 01:01:54.085
There were lots of guys
down there.

1089
01:01:54.127 --> 01:01:56.046
They had guns,
and they were gonna fight.

1090
01:01:56.087 --> 01:01:58.715
So then we sprinted out
of there,

1091
01:01:58.757 --> 01:02:03.386
just running across this field
of bodies, jumping them.

1092
01:02:05.597 --> 01:02:09.059
It was really grim,
really, really grim.

1093
01:02:09.100 --> 01:02:10.560
Man #6: 1, 2...

1094
01:02:10.602 --> 01:02:12.562
[ Explosion ]
Fire in the hole.

1095
01:02:12.604 --> 01:02:14.356
What the fuck is that?

1096
01:02:14.397 --> 01:02:16.733
Billingsley: They were dumping
55-gallon drums of oil

1097
01:02:16.775 --> 01:02:19.235
and then they put incendiary
grenades in

1098
01:02:19.277 --> 01:02:21.905
and threw the grenades down,
but nobody came out.

1099
01:02:21.946 --> 01:02:23.740
I talked to one of the Afghans
through the translator.

1100
01:02:23.782 --> 01:02:26.034
I said, "So how many of these
guys do you think there are?"

1101
01:02:26.076 --> 01:02:27.243
"One and a half."

1102
01:02:27.285 --> 01:02:28.953
Like, "One and a half"?

1103
01:02:28.995 --> 01:02:30.580
"Yeah, no one
could survive this.

1104
01:02:30.622 --> 01:02:32.665
So probably one and a half
or two."

1105
01:02:43.593 --> 01:02:45.595
I know it's an unbreakable vow
and all that,

1106
01:02:45.637 --> 01:02:48.139
and I can see
a soldier's honor in it,

1107
01:02:48.181 --> 01:02:52.060
but...all this
to get one body?

1108
01:02:55.855 --> 01:02:58.274
It was a slaughter.

1109
01:02:58.316 --> 01:03:03.738
[ Explosion echoing ]

1110
01:03:03.780 --> 01:03:05.865
I remember thinking, "Where
are the special forces guys?

1111
01:03:05.907 --> 01:03:07.409
Or where's...?"

1112
01:03:07.450 --> 01:03:09.953
And then, while we were
on that northern parapet

1113
01:03:09.994 --> 01:03:11.621
above the main gate across,

1114
01:03:11.663 --> 01:03:13.748
you could see their heads
poking up once in a while,

1115
01:03:13.790 --> 01:03:15.458
just kind of surveying
the situation.

1116
01:03:15.500 --> 01:03:17.210
But they were staying out of it.

1117
01:03:20.171 --> 01:03:23.049
Some point in time, the --

1118
01:03:23.091 --> 01:03:26.886
the U.S. personnel had taken
Spann's body off the field

1119
01:03:26.928 --> 01:03:33.226
and there was this idea that
the U.S. story of this was over.

1120
01:03:33.268 --> 01:03:36.604
But instead of one and a half
or two prisoners coming out,

1121
01:03:36.646 --> 01:03:38.481
86 come out.

1122
01:03:38.523 --> 01:03:40.316
And one of them
is the same guy

1123
01:03:40.358 --> 01:03:42.944
that was revealed later
to be on that blanket

1124
01:03:42.986 --> 01:03:45.488
that the two CIA agents
had been interrogating

1125
01:03:45.530 --> 01:03:51.202
that was, you know,
the American Taliban, Lindh.

1126
01:03:51.244 --> 01:03:52.662
It was like,
"The story's moved on.

1127
01:03:52.704 --> 01:03:54.831
Now it's about this guy,
the American Taliban."

1128
01:03:54.873 --> 01:03:56.708
And that became -- at least
for the the U.S. audience --

1129
01:03:56.749 --> 01:03:59.294
that became the story.
It wasn't about everybody else.

1130
01:03:59.335 --> 01:04:01.212
It wasn't about the 70 dead
Northern Alliance

1131
01:04:01.254 --> 01:04:03.089
or the 200 or 300 dead.

1132
01:04:03.131 --> 01:04:04.466
I never did get
an accurate count

1133
01:04:04.507 --> 01:04:06.551
of how many people were killed.

1134
01:04:06.593 --> 01:04:08.219
It was about
this American Taliban

1135
01:04:08.261 --> 01:04:10.013
because he wasn't
an Arab-American.

1136
01:04:10.054 --> 01:04:11.347
He wasn't a person of color.

1137
01:04:11.389 --> 01:04:12.515
He was a white,
middle-class American

1138
01:04:12.557 --> 01:04:14.142
From Marin County, California.

1139
01:04:14.184 --> 01:04:15.518
Reporter #16:
Today, Taliban fighters

1140
01:04:15.560 --> 01:04:17.479
captured after
a bloody prison rebellion

1141
01:04:17.520 --> 01:04:20.148
near Mazar-i-Sharif, one of them
seen here on the right,

1142
01:04:20.190 --> 01:04:23.985
a 20-year-old American,
who told   Newsweek   magazine

1143
01:04:24.027 --> 01:04:27.197
he joined the Taliban
to build a true Islamic state.

1144
01:04:27.238 --> 01:04:28.823
Defense officials say he is now

1145
01:04:28.865 --> 01:04:33.203
in the custody
of the U.S. military.

1146
01:04:33.244 --> 01:04:35.788
Perry:
It was a tabloid revenge story,

1147
01:04:35.830 --> 01:04:39.334
and he played
his part perfectly.

1148
01:04:39.375 --> 01:04:43.213
He was unrepentant.

1149
01:04:43.254 --> 01:04:45.924
And what he really needed
was someone

1150
01:04:45.965 --> 01:04:48.426
to kind of ask him why,

1151
01:04:48.468 --> 01:04:50.428
you know,
and try and understand.

1152
01:04:50.470 --> 01:04:54.557
But no one was gonna give him
any understanding.

1153
01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:55.934
And he wasn't asking for it.

1154
01:04:55.975 --> 01:04:59.479



1155
01:04:59.521 --> 01:05:01.606
Walker Lindh: Really...

1156
01:05:10.657 --> 01:05:13.159
Bill: Let's let the morphine
take effect and you can relax.

1157
01:05:13.201 --> 01:05:14.035
Pelton: Thank you
for talking to us.

1158
01:05:14.077 --> 01:05:19.415



1159
01:05:19.457 --> 01:05:21.376
Perry: I remember proposing
that story,

1160
01:05:21.417 --> 01:05:24.045
that exact story,
to "Times" editors,

1161
01:05:24.087 --> 01:05:29.175
saying, "We need to do a story
on what this group of people,

1162
01:05:29.217 --> 01:05:32.262
who in some ways represent quite
a large part of the planet,

1163
01:05:32.303 --> 01:05:34.055
don't like America.

1164
01:05:34.097 --> 01:05:35.723
We need to explain that."

1165
01:05:35.765 --> 01:05:38.851
And my editors are saying,
"We're not doing that story."

1166
01:05:38.893 --> 01:05:46.109



1167
01:05:46.150 --> 01:05:53.616



1168
01:05:53.658 --> 01:06:00.832



1169
01:06:00.873 --> 01:06:02.625
John Walker Lindh
was not the only American.

1170
01:06:02.667 --> 01:06:05.003
There was another American
that we didn't realize

1171
01:06:05.044 --> 01:06:07.505
until he was at Gitmo
and he was debriefed, you know,

1172
01:06:07.547 --> 01:06:09.549
and then they wound up
stripping him of his citizenship

1173
01:06:09.591 --> 01:06:11.968
and sending him back
to Saudi Arabia -- Hamdi.

1174
01:06:12.010 --> 01:06:15.930
So there were two Americans
actually in that prison.

1175
01:06:15.972 --> 01:06:17.181
Lindh was the only Caucasian.

1176
01:06:17.223 --> 01:06:19.809
The other was an ethnic Saudi.

1177
01:06:29.193 --> 01:06:30.903
[ Man talking in Arabic ]

1178
01:06:51.549 --> 01:06:52.967
Pelton: I'm not gonna tell
anybody you're here, so,

1179
01:06:53.009 --> 01:06:55.511
hopefully you can get
some peace and quiet.

1180
01:06:55.553 --> 01:06:57.180
But I will communicate
anything you want

1181
01:06:57.221 --> 01:06:58.514
to anybody you want.

1182
01:07:09.108 --> 01:07:10.401
This is Sheberghan.

1183
01:07:31.422 --> 01:07:33.633
Right now.

1184
01:07:38.012 --> 01:07:45.561



1185
01:07:45.603 --> 01:07:48.731
Pelton: My main goal was to get
him on that phone,

1186
01:07:48.773 --> 01:07:50.483
'cause once you're on the phone,

1187
01:07:50.525 --> 01:07:52.568
then the parents can call
a lawyer,

1188
01:07:52.610 --> 01:07:54.737
they can call the media,
whatever.

1189
01:07:56.572 --> 01:07:58.199
But he didn't want
to do that, so fine.

1190
01:07:58.241 --> 01:08:00.576
I'm not gonna push him.
And then I said to Bill, "Okay,

1191
01:08:00.618 --> 01:08:02.412
we've got to get him
out of here

1192
01:08:02.453 --> 01:08:07.333
because if he stays here...

1193
01:08:07.375 --> 01:08:08.710
he could disappear."

1194
01:08:08.751 --> 01:08:11.087
And I wasn't exaggerating
the threat.

1195
01:08:15.049 --> 01:08:17.844
And what I predicted was true,
that he would disappear

1196
01:08:17.885 --> 01:08:19.220
and you wouldn't see him again.

1197
01:08:19.262 --> 01:08:21.639
-We have ambulance.
-Ambulance.

1198
01:08:21.681 --> 01:08:28.187



1199
01:08:28.229 --> 01:08:29.897
And what happened after that,
I don't know,

1200
01:08:29.939 --> 01:08:31.941
except for one minor incident
in which I was asked

1201
01:08:31.983 --> 01:08:36.112
by the Marines over here
to brief them on Afghanistan.

1202
01:08:36.154 --> 01:08:37.947
And I thought
that was kind of weird,

1203
01:08:37.989 --> 01:08:40.616
like, why do the Marines want me
to tell about Afghanistan?

1204
01:08:40.658 --> 01:08:42.702
It turned out it was the guys
at Camp Rhino

1205
01:08:42.744 --> 01:08:45.121
that looked after
John Walker Lindh.

1206
01:08:46.998 --> 01:08:50.460
Radack: We had been told by our
boss that the Justice Department

1207
01:08:50.501 --> 01:08:52.920
we'd be taking
a more conservative position

1208
01:08:52.962 --> 01:08:54.255
after 9/11,

1209
01:08:54.297 --> 01:08:57.633
but that was not defined for us
what that meant.

1210
01:08:57.675 --> 01:09:00.052
And to most of us
it certainly didn't mean

1211
01:09:00.094 --> 01:09:02.680
throwing the ethics rules
out the window

1212
01:09:02.722 --> 01:09:05.767
and behaving like
a bunch of cowboys.

1213
01:09:05.808 --> 01:09:08.394
Pizzey: Any prisoners will be
held in a temporary facility

1214
01:09:08.436 --> 01:09:10.021
being built at Camp Rhino.

1215
01:09:10.062 --> 01:09:12.774
The only one here at the moment
is John Walker Lindh,

1216
01:09:12.815 --> 01:09:15.151
the young American caught
fighting with the Taliban.

1217
01:09:15.193 --> 01:09:18.154
He's reported to be in good
health but has no friends here.

1218
01:09:18.196 --> 01:09:19.489
Soldier:
Mama always told me,

1219
01:09:19.530 --> 01:09:20.615
"If you don't
have nothing good to say,

1220
01:09:20.656 --> 01:09:22.033
just keep your mouth closed."

1221
01:09:22.074 --> 01:09:24.035
And that about sums up
their opinion.

1222
01:09:24.076 --> 01:09:27.538
They really think that
he's lower than a snake's belly,

1223
01:09:27.580 --> 01:09:29.081
as you might say, around here.

1224
01:09:29.123 --> 01:09:30.958
Pelton: And the Marines came
to me and they said,

1225
01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:34.045
"Oh, God, it's such a mess
because the guys would sneak in

1226
01:09:34.086 --> 01:09:36.714
and write things on his head
and take pictures all the time."

1227
01:09:36.756 --> 01:09:38.591
Reporter #18:
John Walker Lindh,

1228
01:09:38.633 --> 01:09:40.676
Abdul Hamid
to his Taliban associates,

1229
01:09:40.718 --> 01:09:42.512
is being held at Camp Rhino

1230
01:09:42.553 --> 01:09:46.641
awaiting return to this country
and under ferocious criticism.

1231
01:09:46.682 --> 01:09:48.017
I don't know all the details,

1232
01:09:48.059 --> 01:09:49.811
but he certainly appears
to be a traitor.

1233
01:09:49.852 --> 01:09:51.687
Reporter #19:
What is the President's view

1234
01:09:51.729 --> 01:09:53.606
of an American fighting
for the Taliban?

1235
01:09:53.648 --> 01:09:55.942
The President has set
a war against the Taliban

1236
01:09:55.983 --> 01:09:58.778
and a war against al-Qaeda,
regardless of who it composes.

1237
01:09:58.820 --> 01:10:00.446
Reporter #19:
And waiting back home for him

1238
01:10:00.488 --> 01:10:03.699
are his nervous parents
and the attorney they've hired

1239
01:10:03.741 --> 01:10:06.369
to argue
he was just a young man...

1240
01:10:06.410 --> 01:10:08.955
Radack:
It was December 7, 2001.

1241
01:10:08.996 --> 01:10:11.874
We had been informed
unambiguously

1242
01:10:11.916 --> 01:10:16.087
that John Walker Lindh
was represented by counsel.

1243
01:10:16.128 --> 01:10:20.091
I advised on a Friday
not to interrogate him

1244
01:10:20.132 --> 01:10:22.385
without his lawyer.

1245
01:10:22.426 --> 01:10:25.596
Bread and butter, basic advice.

1246
01:10:25.638 --> 01:10:27.682
It was not something radical.

1247
01:10:27.723 --> 01:10:31.018
Then I get a call back
on a Monday

1248
01:10:31.060 --> 01:10:33.729
and the Justice Department
attorney,

1249
01:10:33.771 --> 01:10:36.732
my counterpart in terrorism,
the violent crime,

1250
01:10:36.774 --> 01:10:41.696
said, "Well,
the FBI interrogated him anyway.

1251
01:10:41.737 --> 01:10:44.031
So what do we do now?"

1252
01:10:47.660 --> 01:10:53.583
So I advised that the interview
would have to be sealed

1253
01:10:53.624 --> 01:10:56.085
and only used
for national security

1254
01:10:56.127 --> 01:10:58.838
and intelligence-gathering
purposes,

1255
01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:03.050
but not
for criminal prosecution.

1256
01:11:03.092 --> 01:11:04.927
Reimann: I wasn't aware
and I'm sure he wasn't aware

1257
01:11:04.969 --> 01:11:07.430
of the family
having retained somebody.

1258
01:11:07.471 --> 01:11:10.016
I've been, you know,

1259
01:11:10.057 --> 01:11:12.184
asked by my headquarters
to interview him,

1260
01:11:12.226 --> 01:11:13.936
and that was my...

1261
01:11:13.978 --> 01:11:17.064
And I did it with the Miranda
warnings that are appropriate.

1262
01:11:17.106 --> 01:11:19.525
I told him that, you know,
there's no lawyer present

1263
01:11:19.567 --> 01:11:21.903
and, you know, you have
the right

1264
01:11:21.944 --> 01:11:23.446
to not talk to me at all.

1265
01:11:23.487 --> 01:11:26.407
Or you don't have to answer
every question I ask you.

1266
01:11:26.449 --> 01:11:27.658
Those are your options,

1267
01:11:27.700 --> 01:11:29.952
and he said, "No, no,
I want to talk.

1268
01:11:29.994 --> 01:11:31.913
Candiotti: Legal experts
call Walker's statement

1269
01:11:31.954 --> 01:11:34.457
to the FBI crucial
to the government's case.

1270
01:11:34.498 --> 01:11:37.960
In it, he allegedly admits
training in al-Qaeda camps

1271
01:11:38.002 --> 01:11:41.672
and being told about planned
suicide attacks in the U.S.

1272
01:11:41.714 --> 01:11:44.634
When he told me
that he was at the camp,

1273
01:11:44.675 --> 01:11:46.177
that was an al-Qaeda camp,
that he knew

1274
01:11:46.218 --> 01:11:48.137
he was in an al-Qaeda camp.
He knew that up front.

1275
01:11:48.179 --> 01:11:51.140
And he said -- You know,
I asked him about that.

1276
01:11:51.182 --> 01:11:54.310
He knew that al-Qaeda was --
That bin Laden,

1277
01:11:54.352 --> 01:11:57.146
who was the leader of al-Qaeda,
was wanted by the United States,

1278
01:11:57.188 --> 01:12:02.777
and that al-Qaeda was,
if you will, enemy of the state.

1279
01:12:02.818 --> 01:12:04.320
He knew all that.

1280
01:12:04.362 --> 01:12:06.989
And he's still -- He knew
that going into the camp.

1281
01:12:07.031 --> 01:12:10.326
He knew that during the camp.
And on several occasions,

1282
01:12:10.368 --> 01:12:14.121
bin Laden himself spoke
to specifically the foreigners.

1283
01:12:14.163 --> 01:12:16.916
The Westerners were set aside
and he spoke to them.

1284
01:12:16.958 --> 01:12:19.001
And on one occasion at least,

1285
01:12:19.043 --> 01:12:22.004
he spoke directly
with John Walker Lindh

1286
01:12:22.046 --> 01:12:24.173
and he said
he just wanted to fight

1287
01:12:24.215 --> 01:12:27.301
the Northern Alliance.

1288
01:12:27.343 --> 01:12:28.803
That was his intentions.

1289
01:12:28.844 --> 01:12:30.972
I mean, that's, again,
him describing himself,

1290
01:12:31.013 --> 01:12:33.057
that he thought
he was doing something --

1291
01:12:33.099 --> 01:12:35.017
a worthy cause or something.

1292
01:12:35.059 --> 01:12:37.478
And just as I said,
I thought that was a smart kid.

1293
01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:39.021
He seemed intelligent,

1294
01:12:39.063 --> 01:12:42.900
and he learned the language
of a difficult language.

1295
01:12:42.942 --> 01:12:46.237
Yet he just did something
pretty stupid.

1296
01:12:46.278 --> 01:12:48.698
Tom Brokaw:It appears
an American member

1297
01:12:48.739 --> 01:12:52.076
of bin Laden's fighting force
will escape the death penalty.

1298
01:12:52.118 --> 01:12:54.328
Radack:
So this whole narrative

1299
01:12:54.370 --> 01:12:56.872
started to develop
rather quickly.

1300
01:12:56.914 --> 01:12:59.875
Wray: We had very few bad guys
in our possession.

1301
01:12:59.917 --> 01:13:01.669
And suddenly we had this guy,

1302
01:13:01.711 --> 01:13:04.380
who not only was supposedly
a bad guy,

1303
01:13:04.422 --> 01:13:08.217
but was one of our own.

1304
01:13:08.259 --> 01:13:12.972
Radack:
And he was ripe for caricatures.

1305
01:13:13.014 --> 01:13:15.349
I don't have to go through
all the rigmarole

1306
01:13:15.391 --> 01:13:16.851
of a courtroom,

1307
01:13:16.892 --> 01:13:18.394
and I can judge
just by what I know

1308
01:13:18.436 --> 01:13:20.312
that he's guilty
and that he should be punished.

1309
01:13:20.354 --> 01:13:22.023
I certainly don't approve
of what he did,

1310
01:13:22.064 --> 01:13:24.150
but then I don't know
what he did exactly.

1311
01:13:24.191 --> 01:13:26.193
Reporter #20: But is he
a latter-day Patty Hearst,

1312
01:13:26.235 --> 01:13:28.904
allegedly brainwashed
into becoming a warrior

1313
01:13:28.946 --> 01:13:31.574
or an accessory
to the murder of a CIA agent

1314
01:13:31.615 --> 01:13:33.200
who tried to question him?

1315
01:13:33.242 --> 01:13:35.119
Reporter #21: For now,
Walker is in military custody

1316
01:13:35.161 --> 01:13:36.454
on a Navy ship.

1317
01:13:36.495 --> 01:13:38.080
Brokaw: The American Taliban,
John Walker Lindh,

1318
01:13:38.122 --> 01:13:39.790
is coming back
to the United States today.

1319
01:13:39.832 --> 01:13:41.250
Mr. President, the country seems
to be divided

1320
01:13:41.292 --> 01:13:44.045
along several lines
when it comes to his case.

1321
01:13:44.086 --> 01:13:46.380
He's a traitor. Others say
he's a misunderstood kid.

1322
01:13:46.422 --> 01:13:48.090
Where do you come down
on all that?

1323
01:13:48.132 --> 01:13:50.885
I come down that he volunteered
to join al-Qaeda,

1324
01:13:50.926 --> 01:13:52.636
was trained by al-Qaeda.

1325
01:13:52.678 --> 01:13:56.599
I also am pleased that he's
gonna be afforded a chance

1326
01:13:56.640 --> 01:13:59.268
to make his case
in a court of law.

1327
01:13:59.310 --> 01:14:04.815
Radack: It was just a complete
way to vilify someone,

1328
01:14:04.857 --> 01:14:06.525
which normally
Justice Department

1329
01:14:06.567 --> 01:14:08.152
has regulations against

1330
01:14:08.194 --> 01:14:11.113
because you don't want to give
unfair pretrial publicity

1331
01:14:11.155 --> 01:14:14.116
on someone that you actually
want to try in court

1332
01:14:14.158 --> 01:14:19.121
because it can make a criminal
prosecution more difficult.

1333
01:14:19.163 --> 01:14:20.956
Reporter #22: His defense argues
that his statements

1334
01:14:20.998 --> 01:14:23.084
to the FBI are unreliable

1335
01:14:23.125 --> 01:14:24.919
because he made them
after being held for two

1336
01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:26.921
or three days
in this metal container,

1337
01:14:26.962 --> 01:14:29.799
an improvised jail cell,
blindfolded, his hands

1338
01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:32.093
and feet painfully
bound to a stretcher.

1339
01:14:32.134 --> 01:14:33.803
They say Lindh believed
the only way

1340
01:14:33.844 --> 01:14:36.138
to escape the torture
of his confinement

1341
01:14:36.180 --> 01:14:38.349
was to do
whatever the FBI wanted.

1342
01:14:42.353 --> 01:14:43.896
-Yeah.
-Yeah.

1343
01:14:45.731 --> 01:14:47.983
[ Reporters shouting questions ]

1344
01:14:48.025 --> 01:14:49.318
Greenberg:
There was no credible story

1345
01:14:49.360 --> 01:14:50.861
that was coming out
about what this was.

1346
01:14:50.903 --> 01:14:52.446
There were too many questions
around it.

1347
01:14:52.488 --> 01:14:55.282
And it's not just about
John Walker Lindh.

1348
01:14:55.324 --> 01:14:57.326
It's about the larger context

1349
01:14:57.368 --> 01:15:00.287
of what it meant
to take the gloves off

1350
01:15:00.329 --> 01:15:04.083
and do what we needed to do
to keep the country safe.

1351
01:15:04.125 --> 01:15:06.377
The problem is
that it shows weakness.

1352
01:15:06.418 --> 01:15:09.880
That pushing aside laws
and protections shows

1353
01:15:09.922 --> 01:15:12.174
that you don't really
trust your system.

1354
01:15:12.216 --> 01:15:17.805
And among the things that 9/11
did was to cause Americans

1355
01:15:17.847 --> 01:15:20.850
at all levels of society
and government

1356
01:15:20.891 --> 01:15:23.185
to say, "Our systems
can't protect us."

1357
01:15:23.227 --> 01:15:27.022
The systems and the law were in
the way for keeping us safe.

1358
01:15:27.064 --> 01:15:31.527
And to this day, we haven't
really come to terms

1359
01:15:31.569 --> 01:15:32.862
with the impact on that.

1360
01:15:32.903 --> 01:15:34.196
So to your question, you know,

1361
01:15:34.238 --> 01:15:35.489
"What happened
with terrorism trials?"

1362
01:15:35.531 --> 01:15:37.992
That's not the question
I would ask.

1363
01:15:38.033 --> 01:15:39.535
I would ask the question,
"What happened

1364
01:15:39.577 --> 01:15:43.164
with the relationship
between security and the law?"

1365
01:15:43.205 --> 01:15:45.166
which is -- which is
still something

1366
01:15:45.207 --> 01:15:47.126
we're struggling with
as a country.

1367
01:15:47.168 --> 01:15:51.422
He chose to waive his right
to an attorney,

1368
01:15:51.463 --> 01:15:58.220
both orally and in writing
before his statement to the FBI.

1369
01:15:58.262 --> 01:16:00.055
Mr. Walker will be
held responsible

1370
01:16:00.097 --> 01:16:01.432
in the courtroom
for his choices.

1371
01:16:01.473 --> 01:16:03.309
Radack:
After that press conference,

1372
01:16:03.350 --> 01:16:07.646
I get this performance
evaluation that's unsigned.

1373
01:16:07.688 --> 01:16:12.985
And my boss is just like,
"You don't seem happy here.

1374
01:16:13.027 --> 01:16:16.071
I think you should probably
find another job."

1375
01:16:16.113 --> 01:16:19.074
And she didn't say, "Because
of John Walker Lindh

1376
01:16:19.116 --> 01:16:21.744
and the fact that our office
took a position

1377
01:16:21.785 --> 01:16:23.162
that now contradicts

1378
01:16:23.204 --> 01:16:25.164
what the attorney general
was saying,"

1379
01:16:25.206 --> 01:16:30.085
but clearly, the ethics office
wanted me out.

1380
01:16:30.127 --> 01:16:39.929



1381
01:16:39.970 --> 01:16:43.515
And these trophy photos,
like why?

1382
01:16:43.557 --> 01:16:45.100
Who...

1383
01:16:48.562 --> 01:16:50.773
Why would they even...

1384
01:16:50.814 --> 01:16:54.109
I'm sorry.
It's just...

1385
01:16:54.151 --> 01:17:02.243



1386
01:17:02.284 --> 01:17:06.372
The smear campaigns,
they were directed at anyone

1387
01:17:06.413 --> 01:17:11.961
who was remotely seen
as having helped him.

1388
01:17:12.002 --> 01:17:15.256
And that's just tyrannical.

1389
01:17:15.297 --> 01:17:16.715
Reporter #23: The question is

1390
01:17:16.757 --> 01:17:18.759
whether actions
taken around the battlefield,

1391
01:17:18.801 --> 01:17:20.219
where there are a few rules,

1392
01:17:20.261 --> 01:17:22.680
can withstand the test
of the legal system,

1393
01:17:22.721 --> 01:17:26.225
where rules are everything.

1394
01:17:26.267 --> 01:17:28.936
Greenberg: The purpose
of a trial is to heal

1395
01:17:28.978 --> 01:17:31.605
and to bring a sense of justice

1396
01:17:31.647 --> 01:17:34.483
both to the victim
and to the alleged perpetrator,

1397
01:17:34.525 --> 01:17:37.319
and in so many terrorism cases,
we don't see that.

1398
01:17:37.361 --> 01:17:39.446
It was a very big surprise
in the Virginia courtroom

1399
01:17:39.488 --> 01:17:43.284
where John Lindh faced charges
that he engaged in terrorism.

1400
01:17:43.325 --> 01:17:44.743
Greenberg:
And in this case,

1401
01:17:44.785 --> 01:17:46.954
it might have made for
a more settling story

1402
01:17:46.996 --> 01:17:49.456
and for a greater sense
of closure.

1403
01:17:49.498 --> 01:17:52.167
Franken: The deal had been
struck just some nine hours

1404
01:17:52.209 --> 01:17:54.837
before John Walker Lindh
came back to court,

1405
01:17:54.878 --> 01:17:58.173
so secret that
Judge T.S. Ellis only found out

1406
01:17:58.215 --> 01:18:00.217
shortly before
he took the bench.

1407
01:18:00.259 --> 01:18:02.553
It wasn't just the plea deal,
it was the charges,

1408
01:18:02.594 --> 01:18:07.266
the fact that they decided
to drop 8 of 10 charges.

1409
01:18:07.308 --> 01:18:09.476
It wasn't that there was a jury
and he was acquitted.

1410
01:18:09.518 --> 01:18:12.271
It was the charges
were actually dropped.

1411
01:18:12.313 --> 01:18:14.606
And so that is very unsettling.

1412
01:18:14.648 --> 01:18:16.567



1413
01:18:16.608 --> 01:18:18.569
It was like, "Wait,
what happened?

1414
01:18:18.610 --> 01:18:20.279
Was there evidence?
Wasn't there evidence?

1415
01:18:20.321 --> 01:18:22.865
What's -- what's
the actual story?"

1416
01:18:55.439 --> 01:18:56.732
Ellis:
It is true that fighting

1417
01:18:56.774 --> 01:18:58.817
for something you believe in
is a virtue,

1418
01:18:58.859 --> 01:19:02.029
but only if the belief
is itself virtuous.

1419
01:19:14.041 --> 01:19:16.710
...and the Constitution
that led your council

1420
01:19:16.752 --> 01:19:18.921
to exert
their every effort for you

1421
01:19:18.962 --> 01:19:21.590
and that you will have
as much fervor for those

1422
01:19:21.632 --> 01:19:23.217
for all this country stands for

1423
01:19:23.258 --> 01:19:28.263
as you had for some causes
lacking virtue in the past.

1424
01:19:28.305 --> 01:19:30.557
The court concludes
that you should be committed

1425
01:19:30.599 --> 01:19:32.101
to the custody
of the Bureau of Prisons

1426
01:19:32.142 --> 01:19:34.937
for a period of 10 years
as to count 9

1427
01:19:34.978 --> 01:19:38.482
and 10 years as to one count
of criminal information,

1428
01:19:38.524 --> 01:19:41.777
those counts
to run consecutively.

1429
01:19:41.819 --> 01:19:43.737
This court stands in recess.

1430
01:19:43.779 --> 01:19:46.198
[ Gavel bangs ]

1431
01:19:46.240 --> 01:19:56.208



1432
01:19:56.250 --> 01:20:06.135



1433
01:20:06.176 --> 01:20:09.721
Alison: One of the things
that my dad said to me

1434
01:20:09.763 --> 01:20:11.098
was the exact same thing

1435
01:20:11.140 --> 01:20:13.976
that he said
to John Walker Lindh.

1436
01:20:15.853 --> 01:20:21.108
There were Muslims
in the Twin Towers that day,

1437
01:20:21.150 --> 01:20:26.155
and the people
who did this were radicals.

1438
01:20:26.196 --> 01:20:31.660
And that's not what's written
in the Quran.

1439
01:20:31.702 --> 01:20:33.954
That is something
that really rang true

1440
01:20:33.996 --> 01:20:35.164
when I went over there.

1441
01:20:35.205 --> 01:20:41.003



1442
01:20:41.044 --> 01:20:46.884



1443
01:20:46.925 --> 01:20:50.012
The people there...

1444
01:20:50.053 --> 01:20:52.389
have been through a lot,

1445
01:20:52.431 --> 01:20:56.852
but they have a lot to offer
when you go.

1446
01:20:56.894 --> 01:20:59.938
I went there scared

1447
01:20:59.980 --> 01:21:03.192
and not sure what to expect,

1448
01:21:03.233 --> 01:21:08.530
but I met people there
who were friends with my dad,

1449
01:21:08.572 --> 01:21:10.949
who loved my dad,

1450
01:21:10.991 --> 01:21:16.205
who fought beside him
and who were Muslim

1451
01:21:16.246 --> 01:21:19.666
and were fighting the same
fight he was.

1452
01:21:19.708 --> 01:21:22.878
That will always stick with me.

1453
01:21:22.920 --> 01:21:28.008



1454
01:21:28.050 --> 01:21:33.180



1455
01:21:33.222 --> 01:21:35.724
Perry: It seemed like America
was gonna win quite quickly

1456
01:21:35.766 --> 01:21:37.392
and I would ask people,

1457
01:21:37.434 --> 01:21:41.271
"What do you feel about that
prospect of peace finally?"

1458
01:21:42.481 --> 01:21:44.900
I remember this guy saying,
"Look, at the moment,

1459
01:21:44.942 --> 01:21:46.902
I'm 23 years old.
I've got a pick-up,

1460
01:21:46.944 --> 01:21:48.570
I've got a couple of guys
in the back with RPGs.

1461
01:21:48.612 --> 01:21:50.072
We scream into town.

1462
01:21:50.113 --> 01:21:52.950
We get out,
we get free cups of tea

1463
01:21:52.991 --> 01:21:55.077
and get looks
from the girls."

1464
01:21:55.118 --> 01:21:57.246
Peace?
What do you want me to do?

1465
01:21:57.287 --> 01:21:59.665
Hoe the desert? God.

1466
01:21:59.706 --> 01:22:01.083
[ Laughs ]

1467
01:22:01.124 --> 01:22:04.253
And I'll tell you,
when he said that,

1468
01:22:04.294 --> 01:22:07.089
I don't want to go hoe
the desert either.

1469
01:22:09.091 --> 01:22:11.093
But, you know, there's a reason

1470
01:22:11.134 --> 01:22:13.345
why the foot soldiers
in these wars,

1471
01:22:13.387 --> 01:22:15.097
they're all under 30.

1472
01:22:15.138 --> 01:22:18.267
You know, these are young men.

1473
01:22:18.308 --> 01:22:21.103
They're having
this wonderful adventure

1474
01:22:21.144 --> 01:22:23.522
and egging each other on,
mates, you know,

1475
01:22:23.564 --> 01:22:27.067
until one day comes along
and they all get killed.

1476
01:22:27.109 --> 01:22:28.819
[ Gunfire ]

1477
01:22:32.197 --> 01:22:37.786
If you reach a certain level
of maturity, you don't do it.

1478
01:22:37.828 --> 01:22:39.496
You know, you grow up.

1479
01:22:39.538 --> 01:22:43.417



1480
01:22:43.458 --> 01:22:45.210
[ Gunfire ]

1481
01:22:49.172 --> 01:22:53.302
Man #7: I'm in the basement
of the pink house.

1482
01:22:53.343 --> 01:22:55.804
You can see some of the writing
here, some of the drawings.

1483
01:22:55.846 --> 01:22:57.347
Here's another one.

1484
01:22:58.515 --> 01:23:02.102
An interesting drawing.

1485
01:23:02.144 --> 01:23:05.355
I can't imagine seven days
in this basement.

1486
01:23:09.484 --> 01:23:11.486
[ Man speaking Arabic ]

1487
01:23:15.616 --> 01:23:17.159
Alphabet.

1488
01:23:17.200 --> 01:23:19.494
It was like he was teaching
Arabic to somebody.

1489
01:23:19.536 --> 01:23:23.123
He said Johnny Walker was in the
room across from us here.

1490
01:23:23.165 --> 01:23:24.875
Okay.
Let's go there.

1491
01:23:39.014 --> 01:23:40.891
Man:
Johnny Walker injure.

1492
01:23:40.932 --> 01:23:43.685
-Injured in here?
-Johnny Walker.

1493
01:23:43.727 --> 01:23:44.728
That's a rocket
right there.

1494
01:23:44.770 --> 01:23:46.229
Oh, look at that.

1495
01:23:46.271 --> 01:23:48.982
This room is completely
blackened from the fire.

1496
01:23:49.024 --> 01:23:51.568
Pelton: What made you decide
to leave the basement?

1497
01:24:38.573 --> 01:24:41.243
Was your goal to be Shaheed
or murdered?

1498
01:24:43.954 --> 01:24:45.122
Was it your goal?
Huh?

1499
01:24:45.163 --> 01:24:47.124
Was it your goal
at that time?

1500
01:25:10.522 --> 01:25:17.112



1501
01:25:17.154 --> 01:25:23.744



1502
01:25:23.785 --> 01:25:26.538
I have known
very few Americans

1503
01:25:26.580 --> 01:25:27.914
to fight jihad,

1504
01:25:27.956 --> 01:25:29.249
and I'm just wondering,
just personally,

1505
01:25:29.291 --> 01:25:30.959
because I've been
on jihad in Chechnya

1506
01:25:31.001 --> 01:25:34.254
and southern Philippines,
I'm just curious,

1507
01:25:34.296 --> 01:25:36.465
was this what you thought
it would be?

1508
01:25:36.506 --> 01:25:39.468
Was this the right cause
or the right place?

1509
01:25:42.137 --> 01:25:52.147



1510
01:25:52.189 --> 01:26:02.073



1511
01:26:02.115 --> 01:26:12.083



1512
01:26:12.125 --> 01:26:22.135



1513
01:26:22.177 --> 01:26:32.145



1514
01:26:32.187 --> 01:26:42.155



1515
01:26:42.197 --> 01:26:52.165



1516
01:26:52.207 --> 01:27:02.133



1517
01:27:02.175 --> 01:27:12.143



1518
01:27:12.185 --> 01:27:22.153



1519
01:27:22.195 --> 01:27:32.205



1520
01:27:32.247 --> 01:27:42.215



1521
01:27:42.257 --> 01:27:52.225



1522
01:27:52.267 --> 01:28:02.193



1523
01:28:02.235 --> 01:28:12.203



1524
01:28:12.245 --> 01:28:18.251



1525
01:28:18.293 --> 01:28:24.632