WEBVTT FILE

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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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Camera speed, Vinnie 4.
Take one, Mark.

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The 20th Century gave us
so many misconceptions
when it came to health.

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One egg equals
five cigarettes.

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Eggs cannot legally
even be called safe.

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Cutting down on meat
is a good idea.

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So, is the pendulum
swinging back

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in the opposite direction?

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Where are we since
the last movie came out?

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Is there progress?

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Has meat made a comeback?

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In some cases, I can say yes.

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I swear by the ketogenic diet.

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I hear more doctors
talking about it.

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The low carbohydrate
keto community
is based on science.

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And I can see a few things
moving in a direction

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that people want to see it
move into.

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There is a bottom-up
revolution going on.

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But then I see
the other side of it.

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There was another
vegan propaganda movie

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that came out
in this past year.

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Surprise, surprise, there was
a product hooked to it.

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The impossible burger
is the world's only burger

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that looks, handles,
smells, cooks and tastes

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like ground beef from cows.

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People are becoming
guinea pigs.

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Completely replace animals

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as a food production technology
by 2035.

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InFat, part one,
we talked about the war
for information.

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But I actually think we also
live in a war with ourselves.

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It's almost like we're gaming
the system of our own bodies.

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We're trying to get
our system to do

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what it's not supposed to do.

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"Eat this, eat that,
don't eat this,
don't eat that."

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Our program is known
as a starch-based diet.

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"Take this supplement,

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"it'll make your muscles
grow bigger."

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We have more questions
than ever.

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And the world always speeds up

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and it gets more frenzied
all the time,

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and sometimes even people
who are so-called experts

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don't know what's going on.

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You suck it all up.

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Mmm.

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"This study says this."

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"That study says that."

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"Well, that study
wasn't done correctly."

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"This is healthy."

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"That's not healthy."

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The answers we're searching for

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seem to have
these long winding roads

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that eventually
lead to nothing.

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But maybe it doesn't have
to be so hard.

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In this movie
we're going to expand

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on what we talked about in
Fat, part one.

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We're going to talk to
the same experts
you saw before.

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-But let them
stretch out a little bit.

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-Great.
We're going to discuss

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why some of the things
we believe are wrong.

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Fat tends to cause you
to be fat.

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We're going to
also get into why

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some of these things are right.

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Based on the research,

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we cannot say
with any certainty

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that eating red
or processed meat

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causes cancer, diabetes
or heart disease.

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And also why
there's so much confusion
between the two.

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It doesn't have to be
that divisive.

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My name is Nina Teicholz.
I'm a science journalist

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and author of book called
The Big Fat Surprise.

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I'm also the executive director
of a group

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called the Nutrition Coalition,

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which aims to ensure

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that our nutrition policy
is evidence-based.

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Nina Teicholz
was a one-time vegan.

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She crossed over.
She crossed the aisle.

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And that led her into
ten years of research.

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She went through
all the papers,

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she went through
all the studies

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to come back to figure out
where we had gone wrong.

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And it's the work
like her book,

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The Big Fat Surprise,

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that has led a lot of this
pendulum swing,

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in my opinion, to start moving
in the right direction.

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I got into this field
just completely by accident.

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I was doing a series of
investigative food articles

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for G ourmetmagazine

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and one of them
that was assigned to me

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was on trans fats.

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Well, what are trans fats?
I had no idea.

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Researching that story

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really plunged me into
the whole world of dietary fat,

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which is the subject that
Americans and nutrition

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have obsessed about most.

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And that really led me
down the rabbit hole.

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For nearly a decade,

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I researched everything
I could find

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about dietary fat
and cholesterol.

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When I started
doing my research,

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I couldn't believe
the kind of reactions

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that I got from
interviewing scientists.

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I mean, I'm the daughter
of a scientist

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and in my father's
"dreams" journal,

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if you open up,
there are math equations.

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I always thought that science
was full of people like him,

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who rationally, soberly,
would discuss interesting ideas

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and consider other ideas
and change their minds

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based on
the scientific observations.

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And instead,
in nutrition science,

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I couldn't believe
what I found.

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People who were afraid
to talk to me.

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People who said,

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"If you're going to take
that line on dietary fat,
I can't even talk to you."

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There is some huge story here.

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If people are afraid
to talk to me,

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that means there's
a really big story here.

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Saturated fats,
butter, lard, cheese,

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fatty beef
and poultry with the skin on,

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all said to be
bad for your heart,

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but you should replace
most saturated fats

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with more monounsaturated
healthy fats

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which help reduce your risk
of heart attack and stroke.

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Limit red meat,
dark poultry meat,

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or poultry with the skin on

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to a serving the size of
a deck of cards per day.

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In good science,
you try to do
everything you can

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not to go public prematurely

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because as soon
as you go public,

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as soon as you claim
you've discovered
something you haven't

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or you've realized something

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that you don't have evidence
to support,

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all these consequences kick in

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and make it virtually
impossible to back out of.

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My name's Gary Taubes,

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I'm an investigative journalist,

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co-founder of a not for profit
research organization

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called the
Nutrition Science Initiative,

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author of Good Calories,
Bad Calories

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and Why We Get Fat,
of The Case Against Sugar.

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Gary Taubes is largely
considered a lightning rod.

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Gary has never shied away
from media.

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He will go up against anyone

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because what he has on his side
is a little thing called facts.

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I often asked myself
when I was writing
Good Calories, Bad Calories,

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it's like, I have friends

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who sort of have
conspiratorial turns of mind

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where they think
people do things

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because they're venal
and they're getting
paid by industry.

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And I just think, "I don't see
any conspiracy there."

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I don't really think
the industry

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had much to do with that.

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The food industry was given

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this enormous gift
of this bad science.

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And these people just literally
could not have caused more harm

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if there had been a conspiracy.

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At least if there had been
a conspiracy,

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enterprising
Washington Postreporters

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could have interviewed

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the right people in garages
in Washington and exposed it.

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My name is Dr. Eric Westman.

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I'm an associate professor
of medicine

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at Duke University
Medical Center in Durham,
North Carolina.

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The US government got involved

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in creating guidelines
for what people should eat.

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And it was not based
on science.

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What can you say
about Eric Westman?

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You know,
the original Atkins Diet

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has been around
since the early 1970s.

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But when they wanted
to update it,

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they had to find a doctor
to write that.

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Eric Westman is that guy.

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He wrote The New Atkins for the New You.

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He also started
his own little obesity clinic

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over on the east coast.

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The guy is just phenomenal.

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I was involved in
research communities

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where we would look
at a guideline

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and see that as a straw man,

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as something to either prove
or disprove.

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So unfortunately, the research

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that was going to support

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and back up
the low fat guideline

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never proved
that it was healthy.

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What's the information people
are getting about their health,

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because everybody wants
to know what does it
mean to be healthy?

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And that's sucha difficult question to answer.

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They're interested
in their health,

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they've been searching
for answers.

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And they found an answer

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that has actually done them
more harm than good
in the long run.

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Bret Scher
was this great guy I met

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when he came on my
Fitness Confidentialpodcast.

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And just fell in love
with this guy.

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He's a cardiologist

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who doesn't believe
that red meat will kill you.

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He also feels the same way
about saturated fat
and cholesterol,

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which is a paradigm shift
when you think about it

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because there are not
many cardiologists out there

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that are thinking that way.

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Hormones in our body
play a huge role.

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So, things that raise
our insulin

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are going to encourage
our bodies to store more fat.

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So just because you're taking
fat out of something

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and then you're enhancing it
with increased
carbs and sugars,

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that is actually making
this problem worse,
not helping it.

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Clearly this idea that
we are supposed to avoid fat

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has been a major factor

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in causing, paradoxically,

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the obesity epidemic.

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That's the big myth,

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the idea that it's dangerous
to eat natural foods

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with fat and cholesterol in it.

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Andreas Eenfeldt is a great guy

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who noticed that

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the more medicine
he handed out,
the sicker people got.

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And he felt that there
had to be a better way.

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So he started
working with food,

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pulling certain things out
of people's diets,
adding other things.

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And the certain things
were junk foods, and sugars,

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and grains,
and this sort of thing.

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And he started adding in
red meat, and fish,

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and more fatty foods,
and noticed that people
were healing right up.

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If you avoid fat,

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you end up being hungrier

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and you have to eat more

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of something else

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to feel satisfied.

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And that something else

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is carbohydrates.

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Obviously, aside from
the way it looks,

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you end up eating a lot more
sugar, processed carbs.

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That is probably the cause

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of the obesity epidemic today.

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By this point,
everyone knows
there's an obesity epidemic.

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And while we can argue all day about fat versus low fat,

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pretty much everyone agrees
that sugar is bad for you.

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Sugar makes insulin work better
and cures diabetics.

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Well,
almost everyone.

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But we'll get to that later.

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BMI is one of the most
commonly used measurements

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to determine if you're obese.

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But the newest research says
that BMI may not be reliable.

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The biggest problem
with getting useful data

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has to do with
doing the math honestly.

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We actually have a problem
of philosophy with science
right now.

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We have a replication crisis
where things
can't be replicated.

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We have people who do research

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that do something
called P-Mining.

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The P is sort
of the statistical

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significance of your study.

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You can actually get your data

253
00:10:45.296 --> 00:10:47.211
and then find
the statistical model

254
00:10:47.255 --> 00:10:49.605
that fits best to prove
that your data is working.

255
00:10:49.649 --> 00:10:50.824
I'm Dr. Drew Pinsky.

256
00:10:50.867 --> 00:10:52.477
I'm an internist
and addictionologist.

257
00:10:52.521 --> 00:10:56.743
Dr. Drew, look, like everyone
else in LA, we love Dr. Drew,

258
00:10:56.786 --> 00:10:58.788
all those years of Loveline.

259
00:10:58.832 --> 00:11:03.532
But the fact that he does what he does with addiction medicine

260
00:11:03.575 --> 00:11:05.360
and the lives he has saved,

261
00:11:05.403 --> 00:11:08.276
I'm happy to call
Drew Pinsky a friend.

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00:11:08.319 --> 00:11:10.670
The way we examine populations,

263
00:11:10.713 --> 00:11:11.758
we're looking at sort of

264
00:11:11.801 --> 00:11:14.021
average effects on the mean.

265
00:11:14.064 --> 00:11:16.023
So people on either end

266
00:11:16.066 --> 00:11:17.851
may have
very different physiologies

267
00:11:17.894 --> 00:11:19.635
that have very different sorts
of interventions

268
00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:21.376
that we're completely missing.

269
00:11:21.419 --> 00:11:24.161
There's really a crisis coming

270
00:11:24.205 --> 00:11:25.685
in the philosophy of science.

271
00:11:25.728 --> 00:11:26.903
Intelligent people
should know

272
00:11:26.947 --> 00:11:27.991
the difference between

273
00:11:28.035 --> 00:11:29.776
causality and correlation.

274
00:11:30.428 --> 00:11:31.734
And weirdly enough,

275
00:11:31.778 --> 00:11:33.214
in this field of nutrition,

276
00:11:33.257 --> 00:11:35.825
because it's so hard to do
the necessary experiments,

277
00:11:35.869 --> 00:11:41.004
what you end up with
are correlations between
health and disease.

278
00:11:41.048 --> 00:11:43.528
And one of the correlations
is that people

279
00:11:43.572 --> 00:11:46.009
who consume
a lot of artificial sweeteners

280
00:11:46.053 --> 00:11:50.013
tend to be
more obese and diabetic
than people who don't.

281
00:11:50.057 --> 00:11:53.495
Artificial sweeteners have been a staple for dieters

282
00:11:53.538 --> 00:11:55.062
since the 1980s.

283
00:11:55.105 --> 00:11:58.587
And there's a real debate
about the harm they cause.

284
00:11:58.630 --> 00:12:01.851
The problem is, if you think
about who uses
artificial sweeteners

285
00:12:01.895 --> 00:12:03.418
are the people
who have weight problems,

286
00:12:03.461 --> 00:12:05.289
the people who can't control
their weight drinking

287
00:12:05.333 --> 00:12:07.422
full sugar sodas.

288
00:12:07.465 --> 00:12:11.774
And so, you have no idea
which way the causality runs,

289
00:12:11.818 --> 00:12:13.907
whether these people
are unhealthy

290
00:12:13.950 --> 00:12:15.822
because they consume
artificial sweeteners

291
00:12:15.865 --> 00:12:19.129
or whether they consume
artificial sweeteners

292
00:12:19.173 --> 00:12:22.393
because they're unhealthy
and they're predisposed
to get fat.

293
00:12:22.437 --> 00:12:26.615
The major points about
your diet really sort of

294
00:12:26.658 --> 00:12:31.315
hover around two things,
fat, fruits, and vegetables.

295
00:12:31.359 --> 00:12:35.015
You've got to really get your
saturated fat and trans fat

296
00:12:35.058 --> 00:12:37.017
as low as you possibly can.

297
00:12:37.060 --> 00:12:39.541
And we know that if we do that,
you can actually decrease

298
00:12:39.584 --> 00:12:42.979
your risk of coronary
heart disease 40/50 percent.

299
00:12:43.023 --> 00:12:45.808
There is a correlation between
obesity and heart disease

300
00:12:45.852 --> 00:12:50.987
in that people with obesity
often have other risk factors

301
00:12:51.031 --> 00:12:54.295
like high blood sugar,
high blood pressure,

302
00:12:54.338 --> 00:12:59.691
dyslipidemia, meaning
bad cholesterol profile.

303
00:12:59.735 --> 00:13:03.521
And all these things increase
the risk of heart disease.

304
00:13:03.565 --> 00:13:07.134
It's so easy
to blame heart disease
on fat.

305
00:13:07.177 --> 00:13:08.613
Let's take a hamburger
for instance.

306
00:13:08.657 --> 00:13:10.224
They'll say, "Well,

307
00:13:10.267 --> 00:13:12.748
"red meat is bad for you
because it's in a hamburger."

308
00:13:12.792 --> 00:13:16.273
They won't take into account
that there was ketchup,
mayonnaise,

309
00:13:16.317 --> 00:13:21.017
a big breaded bun, and all of the other condiments around it.

310
00:13:21.061 --> 00:13:25.456
And guess what? Most people
never eat a hamburger
without French fries.

311
00:13:25.500 --> 00:13:27.458
But they never blame it
on the seed oils,

312
00:13:27.502 --> 00:13:29.112
they never blame it
on the bread,

313
00:13:29.156 --> 00:13:32.115
they never blame it on any
of the goop that's put on it.

314
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:34.814
They just go to the meat
and say,

315
00:13:34.857 --> 00:13:37.947
"Meat, bad.
Meat causes heart disease."

316
00:13:37.991 --> 00:13:39.383
It makes no sense.

317
00:13:39.427 --> 00:13:41.037
It's black and white thinking

318
00:13:41.081 --> 00:13:43.779
combined with numerous studies coming out of respected names

319
00:13:43.823 --> 00:13:48.349
like Harvard that lead people
to believe that things
may not be true.

320
00:13:48.392 --> 00:13:50.525
What does Harvard
have to do with this?

321
00:13:50.568 --> 00:13:52.570
The role that Harvard plays

322
00:13:52.614 --> 00:13:54.137
in the nutrition story

323
00:13:54.181 --> 00:13:57.575
is a sad and powerful one.

324
00:13:57.619 --> 00:13:59.403
Extremely powerful.

325
00:13:59.447 --> 00:14:02.363
If you compare butter
with calories from
refined starch and sugar,

326
00:14:02.406 --> 00:14:03.843
it's going to be
pretty much a wash.

327
00:14:03.886 --> 00:14:07.716
They'll both have adverse
impacts on metabolic factors

328
00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:09.892
and on risk of heart disease
and diabetes.

329
00:14:09.936 --> 00:14:12.721
Harvard is home
to two of the largest

330
00:14:12.764 --> 00:14:16.159
nutritional epidemiological
databases in the country.

331
00:14:16.203 --> 00:14:18.509
What is that?
That's a kind of science

332
00:14:18.553 --> 00:14:20.468
where they take
a large group of people

333
00:14:20.511 --> 00:14:23.514
and they follow them for years.
And they ask them what they eat

334
00:14:23.558 --> 00:14:26.691
and then they see who dies
or has a heart attack
or gets cancer.

335
00:14:26.735 --> 00:14:29.869
This is a kind of science
that is so fundamentally weak.

336
00:14:29.912 --> 00:14:31.566
Right? I mean, people are asked

337
00:14:31.609 --> 00:14:36.136
how many cups of spare ribs did you have in the last year,

338
00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:38.007
or how many peaches,
or how many plums

339
00:14:38.051 --> 00:14:39.966
did you eat
on average per week?

340
00:14:40.009 --> 00:14:41.315
Hundreds of questions.

341
00:14:41.358 --> 00:14:43.273
First of all,
people lie about what they eat.

342
00:14:43.317 --> 00:14:47.364
They want to please themselves
or they want to please
the interviewers.

343
00:14:47.408 --> 00:14:49.627
And this has been
documented in science.

344
00:14:49.671 --> 00:14:52.717
Secondly, that dietary data,

345
00:14:52.761 --> 00:14:54.502
even when they try
to validate it,

346
00:14:54.545 --> 00:14:58.201
they find that
it is highly unreliable.

347
00:14:58.245 --> 00:15:00.334
So you're talking about
very, very weak evidence.

348
00:15:00.377 --> 00:15:02.771
Right? And then
this kind of science,

349
00:15:02.814 --> 00:15:05.948
epidemiology, can never prove
cause and effect.

350
00:15:05.992 --> 00:15:07.776
It can only show
an association.

351
00:15:07.819 --> 00:15:11.562
So it was only ever meant
to generate hypotheses,

352
00:15:11.606 --> 00:15:13.260
which then go on to be tested.

353
00:15:13.303 --> 00:15:15.566
The way you test
something properly,
to show cause and effect,

354
00:15:15.610 --> 00:15:18.004
is to test it in a randomized,
controlled, clinical trial.

355
00:15:18.047 --> 00:15:22.269
This weak science that Harvard
has been publishing on

356
00:15:22.312 --> 00:15:25.533
dominates the whole
nutrition landscape.

357
00:15:25.576 --> 00:15:29.102
And it is what is echoed
throughout all of the media.

358
00:15:29.145 --> 00:15:31.713
"Oh, this is only association
but not causation."

359
00:15:31.756 --> 00:15:33.541
But then they just breeze
right by that

360
00:15:33.584 --> 00:15:37.197
with headlines that say things
like, "Coconut oil kills you,"

361
00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:38.807
when that headline should read,

362
00:15:38.850 --> 00:15:42.767
"Coconut oil, we have found
a small, weak association

363
00:15:42.811 --> 00:15:46.989
"between coconut oil
and increased risk
of cardiovascular disease."

364
00:15:47.033 --> 00:15:48.512
People who eat
a lot of red meat,

365
00:15:48.556 --> 00:15:50.166
who are those people?

366
00:15:50.210 --> 00:15:51.994
Those are the people who have
ignored their doctor's orders

367
00:15:52.038 --> 00:15:54.127
for the last 35 years.

368
00:15:54.170 --> 00:15:57.086
That means they do a lot
of other unhealthy things.

369
00:15:57.130 --> 00:16:00.002
They probably drink too much,
they don't go
to cultural events,

370
00:16:00.046 --> 00:16:03.527
they don't follow
their doctor's orders,
they don't take their medicine.

371
00:16:03.571 --> 00:16:06.095
They don't have
happy family lives.

372
00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:08.010
Maybe they live next to
a toxic waste dump

373
00:16:08.054 --> 00:16:09.490
because they're poor,
or whatever.

374
00:16:09.533 --> 00:16:11.187
And then they come out
with a finding that said,

375
00:16:11.231 --> 00:16:12.493
"Red meat eaters,

376
00:16:12.536 --> 00:16:14.277
"people who eat
a lot of red meat,

377
00:16:14.321 --> 00:16:16.062
"tend to die earlier."

378
00:16:16.105 --> 00:16:19.152
Well, was it the meat?
Was it the unhealthy lifestyle?

379
00:16:19.195 --> 00:16:21.676
Was it the excessive
binge drinking?

380
00:16:21.719 --> 00:16:23.591
It could have been any one
of these other things.

381
00:16:23.634 --> 00:16:27.116
But that is why this science
is so fundamentally weak.

382
00:16:27.160 --> 00:16:28.509
Your overall lifestyle,

383
00:16:28.552 --> 00:16:30.772
food just being one factor,

384
00:16:30.815 --> 00:16:33.340
is going to determine
your overall health.

385
00:16:33.383 --> 00:16:36.734
If you eat well,
change your habits,
don't smoke,

386
00:16:36.778 --> 00:16:38.432
maybe start exercising,

387
00:16:38.475 --> 00:16:40.347
well, you'll be healthier.

388
00:16:40.390 --> 00:16:42.305
The problem is that
studies get done

389
00:16:42.349 --> 00:16:46.614
where people get healthier
by changing everything
about their life,

390
00:16:46.657 --> 00:16:49.660
and then the results are touted as food being the reason

391
00:16:49.704 --> 00:16:51.053
they got healthier.

392
00:16:51.097 --> 00:16:54.100
This is especially rampant
among vegan studies.

393
00:16:54.143 --> 00:16:57.668
There have been some
studies in the past,
some small studies,

394
00:16:57.712 --> 00:16:59.061
that have had some problems
with them,

395
00:16:59.105 --> 00:17:00.932
that have been propagated
over and over again

396
00:17:00.976 --> 00:17:03.370
showing that diet
can reverse heart disease.

397
00:17:03.413 --> 00:17:06.460
And a big one was
the Ornish studies in the '90s.

398
00:17:06.503 --> 00:17:08.462
If you eat more calories
than you burn,

399
00:17:08.505 --> 00:17:09.550
then you gain weight.

400
00:17:09.593 --> 00:17:11.552
Fat tends
to cause you to be fat

401
00:17:11.595 --> 00:17:13.728
because fat is very dense
in calories.

402
00:17:13.771 --> 00:17:16.209
Fat has nine calories per gram,

403
00:17:16.252 --> 00:17:19.125
whereas protein and carbs
have only four, less than half.

404
00:17:19.168 --> 00:17:22.780
So an optimal diet is low
in fat, low in the bad carbs,

405
00:17:22.824 --> 00:17:25.435
high in the good carbs,
and enough of the good fats.

406
00:17:25.479 --> 00:17:27.394
And then again,
it's a spectrum.

407
00:17:27.437 --> 00:17:29.396
When you move
in this direction,
you're going to lose weight,

408
00:17:29.439 --> 00:17:31.006
you're going to feel better
and you're going to
gain health.

409
00:17:31.050 --> 00:17:32.834
What's frequently lost
in that is that

410
00:17:32.877 --> 00:17:36.098
that was a whole
lifestyle program.

411
00:17:36.142 --> 00:17:38.927
So they got people
to quit smoking, exercise more,

412
00:17:38.970 --> 00:17:42.626
manage their stress,
and follow a vegetarian diet.

413
00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:44.019
But what's come out of that

414
00:17:44.063 --> 00:17:46.108
is that a vegetarian diet
reverses heart disease.

415
00:17:46.152 --> 00:17:49.590
And you can't say that
from that type of a study.

416
00:17:49.633 --> 00:17:52.375
A vegan approach,
a vegetarian approach,

417
00:17:52.419 --> 00:17:55.770
is consistent with
standard dietary guidelines.

418
00:17:55.813 --> 00:17:56.901
And the question is,

419
00:17:56.945 --> 00:17:58.642
"Is that really
a healthy approach?"

420
00:17:58.686 --> 00:18:00.253
I'm Dr. Jeff Gerber.

421
00:18:00.296 --> 00:18:03.038
I'm a board certified family
doctor from Denver, Colorado.

422
00:18:03.082 --> 00:18:05.127
I've been a doctor
for over 30 years.

423
00:18:05.171 --> 00:18:06.433
About 20 years ago,

424
00:18:06.476 --> 00:18:08.348
I realized I didn't know much
about nutrition.

425
00:18:08.391 --> 00:18:10.611
So I took it upon myself
to learn more.

426
00:18:10.654 --> 00:18:13.004
And I use nutrition as a tool

427
00:18:13.048 --> 00:18:15.137
to treat
and prevent chronic disease.

428
00:18:15.181 --> 00:18:17.661
I look at Jeffry Gerber
and I think, "Hero."

429
00:18:17.705 --> 00:18:19.054
He looked around
and went,

430
00:18:19.098 --> 00:18:21.883
"Wait a minute.
I'm healing people with food.

431
00:18:21.926 --> 00:18:23.145
"What I'm doing,

432
00:18:23.189 --> 00:18:25.495
"what I was taught in school
is not working."

433
00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:29.151
Instead of just going down
the road the way the AHA
or the ADA does,

434
00:18:29.195 --> 00:18:33.373
where they just
keep spewing the same lies
hoping for different results,

435
00:18:33.416 --> 00:18:35.375
Jeffry Gerber looked around
and said,

436
00:18:35.418 --> 00:18:37.725
"Hey, we need to do
something about this."

437
00:18:37.768 --> 00:18:39.944
We think,
especially with vegan diets,

438
00:18:39.988 --> 00:18:44.166
it's quite a challenge
because you're often deficient
of macronutrients

439
00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:47.169
that you would get
from animal-based proteins.

440
00:18:47.213 --> 00:18:50.172
Most people tell me
they feel great
when they go on a vegan diet

441
00:18:50.216 --> 00:18:52.000
only to feel bad later.

442
00:18:52.043 --> 00:18:53.654
My view has always been,

443
00:18:53.697 --> 00:18:54.959
well, when you go
on a vegan diet,

444
00:18:55.003 --> 00:18:56.700
you're cutting out
a bunch of crap,

445
00:18:56.744 --> 00:18:58.963
a bunch of processed food
in your life.

446
00:18:59.007 --> 00:19:01.444
But at some point,
it's not sustainable.

447
00:19:01.488 --> 00:19:03.403
I think there are lots
of different approaches

448
00:19:03.446 --> 00:19:04.969
that can be healthy.

449
00:19:05.013 --> 00:19:08.234
You could even do an extreme
diet like a vegan diet

450
00:19:08.277 --> 00:19:11.193
and feel great because
you're not having sugar.

451
00:19:11.237 --> 00:19:13.152
You're reducing the starches

452
00:19:13.195 --> 00:19:14.631
that raise the blood sugar.

453
00:19:14.675 --> 00:19:15.980
But in my experience,

454
00:19:16.024 --> 00:19:18.679
some people will blindly follow
certain diets,

455
00:19:18.722 --> 00:19:22.335
including the vegan diet,
and gain 50 to 100 pounds

456
00:19:22.378 --> 00:19:24.728
and never even think
that the vegan diet

457
00:19:24.772 --> 00:19:28.254
might be the cause because
they know it's healthy.

458
00:19:28.297 --> 00:19:30.038
Because everyone else says
it's healthy,

459
00:19:30.081 --> 00:19:34.695
it must be the plastic
in my bottle that's
causing the obesity.

460
00:19:34.738 --> 00:19:38.220
It must be the microbiome
or that I'm not sleeping,

461
00:19:38.264 --> 00:19:40.788
when actually it was the food
that they were eating.

462
00:19:40.831 --> 00:19:42.790
As a cardiologist,
I've come across

463
00:19:42.833 --> 00:19:45.314
a number of patients
who are vegans.

464
00:19:45.358 --> 00:19:48.012
And of course,
I read the literature every day

465
00:19:48.056 --> 00:19:51.102
that supports a vegan diet
for heart health.

466
00:19:51.146 --> 00:19:53.017
Unfortunately,
for a lot of vegans,

467
00:19:53.061 --> 00:19:57.065
it takes a lot of work
to maintain a vegan lifestyle.

468
00:19:57.108 --> 00:19:58.762
You have to think about food
all the time,

469
00:19:58.806 --> 00:20:00.677
you have to prepare your food
all the time,

470
00:20:00.721 --> 00:20:02.113
you are hungry all the time.

471
00:20:02.157 --> 00:20:04.594
A number of people
have decreased energy.

472
00:20:04.638 --> 00:20:08.032
So I think that is a downfall
to the vegan way of life,

473
00:20:08.076 --> 00:20:10.165
not that there can't be
healthy vegans.

474
00:20:10.209 --> 00:20:11.514
Of course there can.

475
00:20:11.558 --> 00:20:13.255
But the question is,
"For how long?"

476
00:20:13.299 --> 00:20:16.084
Today we're going
to explore all
of the vitamins and nutrients

477
00:20:16.127 --> 00:20:17.607
you might need on a vegan diet.

478
00:20:17.651 --> 00:20:19.870
Vitamin b12, calcium, iron,

479
00:20:19.914 --> 00:20:23.744
choline, Omega-3 fatty acids,
iodine, zinc, selenium.

480
00:20:23.787 --> 00:20:25.920
They don't make
a very good argument.

481
00:20:25.963 --> 00:20:30.446
And especially like,
they want to come after meat

482
00:20:30.490 --> 00:20:32.796
as being unhealthy
in multiple ways,

483
00:20:32.840 --> 00:20:35.321
leading to heart attack
and to diabetes.

484
00:20:35.364 --> 00:20:39.281
And you have to understand
that a lot of their comments

485
00:20:39.325 --> 00:20:42.502
are based on the ethical
treatment of animals.

486
00:20:42.545 --> 00:20:43.894
And we feel the same way,

487
00:20:43.938 --> 00:20:46.201
that we do want to
treat animals ethically.

488
00:20:46.245 --> 00:20:49.465
But that has nothing to do
with health.

489
00:20:49.509 --> 00:20:52.947
Can we prosper and thrive by

490
00:20:53.991 --> 00:20:57.168
feasting, in effect,
on animals?

491
00:20:57.212 --> 00:21:00.607
And that worries me
personally as well.

492
00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:03.000
Part of the movement
is driven by the idea

493
00:21:03.044 --> 00:21:05.351
that eating animal products
are unhealthy,

494
00:21:05.394 --> 00:21:07.309
which I think
is just bad science.

495
00:21:07.353 --> 00:21:09.355
But unfortunately, the leaders,

496
00:21:09.398 --> 00:21:11.792
the proponents of
the vegetarian/vegan movement

497
00:21:11.835 --> 00:21:13.272
don't like the argument
we're making

498
00:21:13.315 --> 00:21:15.839
'cause we're saying...
Not only are we arguing that

499
00:21:15.883 --> 00:21:18.407
the problem isn't red meat
and animal products,

500
00:21:18.451 --> 00:21:21.280
but we're arguing that people
can be very healthy,

501
00:21:21.323 --> 00:21:24.718
and perhaps healthiest, eating
animal product rich diets.

502
00:21:24.761 --> 00:21:29.810
One of the questions today
is why we're so anti red meat.I've really wondered about that.

503
00:21:29.853 --> 00:21:31.638
It goes back to the 1970s

504
00:21:31.681 --> 00:21:33.117
when really
the kind of burgeoning

505
00:21:33.161 --> 00:21:35.990
of the vegetarian movement
in the United States,

506
00:21:36.033 --> 00:21:37.948
in my hometown,
Berkeley, California.

507
00:21:37.992 --> 00:21:40.690
That was the time
the peace movement...

508
00:21:40.734 --> 00:21:43.737
We had just come out
of two World Wars

509
00:21:43.780 --> 00:21:46.348
and we wanted to make peace,
not war.

510
00:21:46.392 --> 00:21:50.439
Meat has always, throughout all
of history and every culture,

511
00:21:50.483 --> 00:21:52.920
been associated with virility.

512
00:21:52.963 --> 00:21:54.487
It's the food of warriors.

513
00:21:54.530 --> 00:21:56.619
It's the food of people
who make war.

514
00:21:56.663 --> 00:21:59.274
And it gives men and women
muscle mass.

515
00:21:59.318 --> 00:22:00.449
It makes them strong.

516
00:22:00.493 --> 00:22:02.582
For instance,
in the Maasai warriors,

517
00:22:02.625 --> 00:22:04.453
who were studied rigorously by

518
00:22:04.497 --> 00:22:07.369
the University of Vanderbilt
scientists in the 1970s,

519
00:22:07.413 --> 00:22:10.111
they found that
the warrior class,

520
00:22:10.154 --> 00:22:14.681
but not the women,
the warriors
consumed only meat.

521
00:22:14.724 --> 00:22:17.336
Meat, milk, and blood
was their entire diet.

522
00:22:17.379 --> 00:22:19.250
So now we're being told...

523
00:22:19.294 --> 00:22:21.035
Americans are being told
in the 1970s,

524
00:22:21.078 --> 00:22:24.908
not to eat meat because
we want to make peace instead.

525
00:22:24.952 --> 00:22:27.998
This was sort of our modern
idea of masculinity.

526
00:22:28.042 --> 00:22:29.565
And it totally makes sense
for a culture

527
00:22:29.609 --> 00:22:31.350
that does not want
to be at war.

528
00:22:31.393 --> 00:22:34.483
It is so interesting if you
look at the way we used to eat

529
00:22:34.527 --> 00:22:37.443
before the obesity
and the health epidemic.

530
00:22:37.486 --> 00:22:39.401
And red meat
was plentiful then.

531
00:22:39.445 --> 00:22:41.490
And then, when things changed,

532
00:22:41.534 --> 00:22:42.839
with the McGovern Report,

533
00:22:42.883 --> 00:22:45.625
with Ancel Keys'
Seven Countries Study,

534
00:22:45.668 --> 00:22:47.409
with President Eisenhower's
heart attack,

535
00:22:47.453 --> 00:22:49.846
with that conglomeration
of events,

536
00:22:49.890 --> 00:22:53.720
now fat being demonized
and red meat being demonized,

537
00:22:53.763 --> 00:22:55.765
that's when everything changed.

538
00:22:55.809 --> 00:22:57.158
And it happened to coincide

539
00:22:57.201 --> 00:22:59.247
with the health epidemic
that we're having now.

540
00:22:59.290 --> 00:23:01.162
Red meat is back
in vogue again.

541
00:23:01.205 --> 00:23:05.209
I mean with the paleo diet,
you have low carb diets,
you have Atkins...

542
00:23:05.253 --> 00:23:07.864
You even have
my very own
"no sugars, no grains"

543
00:23:07.908 --> 00:23:10.476
approach to eating.
All allows red meat.

544
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:13.087
So everything is back
on the table again.

545
00:23:13.130 --> 00:23:15.742
But it wasn't always that way
for red meat.

546
00:23:15.785 --> 00:23:17.961
One of the factors
that did emerge

547
00:23:18.005 --> 00:23:21.661
as being related to cancer risk
was consumption of red meat,

548
00:23:21.704 --> 00:23:24.185
especially processed red meat,

549
00:23:24.228 --> 00:23:26.796
in relation to risk
of colorectal cancer

550
00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:28.537
and some other cancers.

551
00:23:28.581 --> 00:23:30.974
I think the bias
against eating red meat

552
00:23:31.018 --> 00:23:33.586
has come
from nutritional epidemiology.

553
00:23:33.629 --> 00:23:35.631
These studies look
at the associations

554
00:23:35.675 --> 00:23:37.067
between what people eat

555
00:23:37.111 --> 00:23:39.853
and then look at the effect
on the health

556
00:23:39.896 --> 00:23:41.594
over a long period of time.

557
00:23:41.637 --> 00:23:43.726
But in the clinical
research world,

558
00:23:43.770 --> 00:23:47.730
these are thought of
as relatively weak studies.

559
00:23:47.774 --> 00:23:51.430
And the association level
has been really low

560
00:23:51.473 --> 00:23:54.302
for red meat and cancer
for example.

561
00:23:54.345 --> 00:23:57.044
Why can't people
eat meat and vegetables?

562
00:23:57.087 --> 00:24:00.090
Why is this controversial?
It's food.

563
00:24:00.134 --> 00:24:03.354
Both are real and both
can fit into your diet.

564
00:24:03.398 --> 00:24:06.183
This "either or" argument
that's going on

565
00:24:06.227 --> 00:24:07.750
has nothing to do
with health

566
00:24:07.794 --> 00:24:09.796
and more to do
with ideology.

567
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:11.014
They were yelling like,

568
00:24:12.102 --> 00:24:14.235
"Don't eat chickens,
don't eat meat."

569
00:24:14.278 --> 00:24:18.500
And I was like,
"Well, I love chicken."

570
00:24:18.544 --> 00:24:21.242
These are two distinct
phenomena I think.

571
00:24:21.285 --> 00:24:23.810
One is this identification
with a group

572
00:24:23.853 --> 00:24:25.507
and tribalism around which

573
00:24:25.551 --> 00:24:29.032
diet is yet another
manifestation of that.

574
00:24:29.076 --> 00:24:30.512
But this need to move

575
00:24:30.556 --> 00:24:33.994
from fad, to fad, to fad,
that's consumerism.

576
00:24:34.037 --> 00:24:36.997
That is us needing a solution
to how we're feeling

577
00:24:37.040 --> 00:24:39.956
or looking or how we think
about ourselves

578
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:41.480
with something now.

579
00:24:41.523 --> 00:24:43.525
Buy something now,
do something now,

580
00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:46.397
and fix everything,
fix how I'm feeling now.

581
00:24:46.441 --> 00:24:48.965
And fad diets
suit that beautifully.

582
00:24:49.009 --> 00:24:50.184
I think the media
has a lot to do

583
00:24:50.227 --> 00:24:53.404
with our ill
psychological well-being.

584
00:24:53.448 --> 00:24:56.712
To blame diet
and sedentary lifestyle...

585
00:24:56.756 --> 00:25:00.194
I mean, I've heard blame on TV
my entire life.

586
00:25:00.237 --> 00:25:01.804
But it's us. I mean, look,

587
00:25:01.848 --> 00:25:05.373
people that create mediaonly create stuff that we watch.

588
00:25:05.416 --> 00:25:07.288
It's us that
they're creating it for.

589
00:25:07.331 --> 00:25:09.899
If we didn't watch,
they wouldn't create it
the way they do.

590
00:25:09.943 --> 00:25:13.424
So we need to watch
ourselves and learn
how to train ourselves

591
00:25:13.468 --> 00:25:17.472
not to consume this garbage
in such a unthoughtful way.

592
00:25:17.516 --> 00:25:19.387
Bad news for bacon
and sausage lovers.

593
00:25:19.430 --> 00:25:21.868
The World Health Organization
says those foods

594
00:25:21.911 --> 00:25:24.000
can cause colon
and stomach cancer.

595
00:25:24.044 --> 00:25:28.004
Again, a lot of this
information does come
from media,

596
00:25:28.048 --> 00:25:30.659
who loves to tout institutions like Harvard

597
00:25:30.703 --> 00:25:34.228
whenever they put out
dietary findings.

598
00:25:34.271 --> 00:25:37.536
"Harvard said this,
Harvard said that.

599
00:25:37.579 --> 00:25:39.189
"Why shouldn't
we believe Harvard?"

600
00:25:39.233 --> 00:25:42.149
Walter Willett
of Harvard University

601
00:25:42.192 --> 00:25:45.805
is widely considered to be
the most influential person

602
00:25:45.848 --> 00:25:47.458
in nutrition science today.

603
00:25:47.502 --> 00:25:49.069
He presides over

604
00:25:49.112 --> 00:25:51.158
the largest two

605
00:25:51.201 --> 00:25:54.814
what's called epidemiological
databases in the country.

606
00:25:54.857 --> 00:25:56.990
And those databases,
you have to understand,

607
00:25:57.033 --> 00:25:58.774
all I need to do is
to find an association.

608
00:25:58.818 --> 00:26:00.602
It's just a whole bunch
of statistics

609
00:26:00.646 --> 00:26:03.039
in there they get from
dietary questionnaires.

610
00:26:03.083 --> 00:26:04.954
And they can just, like
a mimeograph machine,

611
00:26:04.998 --> 00:26:06.216
they can just
pull out anything.

612
00:26:06.260 --> 00:26:08.305
Like meat is associated
with this outcome,

613
00:26:08.349 --> 00:26:10.525
or vegetables are associated
with this outcome,

614
00:26:10.569 --> 00:26:13.528
or French fried potatoes lead
to more this kind of cancer.

615
00:26:13.572 --> 00:26:16.749
They can run
those statistical tests
all the time.

616
00:26:16.792 --> 00:26:18.141
Right? Those associations...

617
00:26:18.185 --> 00:26:20.100
So they're publishing
all the time.

618
00:26:20.143 --> 00:26:21.884
Well, in science, sort of

619
00:26:21.928 --> 00:26:25.235
the frequency of publication
is part of what
makes you powerful.

620
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:28.151
Um, and compare that
to somebody who's
doing clinical trials.

621
00:26:28.195 --> 00:26:31.154
They might do a clinical trial
and it takes them two years.

622
00:26:31.198 --> 00:26:33.635
And that's where they're
actually feeding people
and they...

623
00:26:33.679 --> 00:26:35.898
They change their diets,
and they give them counseling.

624
00:26:35.942 --> 00:26:37.639
They get one paper
out of that.

625
00:26:37.683 --> 00:26:40.860
Walter Willett really believes
a vegetarian diet

626
00:26:40.903 --> 00:26:42.557
high in whole grains,

627
00:26:42.601 --> 00:26:44.820
is the diet
that is the healthiest

628
00:26:44.864 --> 00:26:47.127
and he wants everybody
to follow that diet.

629
00:26:47.170 --> 00:26:49.129
One, I think,
important concept

630
00:26:49.172 --> 00:26:51.610
that's developed over
the last decade or so

631
00:26:51.653 --> 00:26:53.612
is that diet quality,

632
00:26:53.655 --> 00:26:56.136
the combination of foods,
the pattern of foods,

633
00:26:56.179 --> 00:27:00.749
uh, is important in directly
influencing disease risk

634
00:27:00.793 --> 00:27:03.709
but also in helping us better
control our body weight.

635
00:27:03.752 --> 00:27:06.537
So, these we used to think
were sort of separate things.

636
00:27:06.581 --> 00:27:08.278
But now they're intertwined.

637
00:27:08.322 --> 00:27:10.367
And the kind of
dietary pattern

638
00:27:10.411 --> 00:27:12.543
that Dr. Hu was talking about,
like a Mediterranean Diet,

639
00:27:12.587 --> 00:27:14.633
that has lots of
fruits and vegetables,

640
00:27:14.676 --> 00:27:18.288
low amounts of red meat,
whole grains,

641
00:27:18.332 --> 00:27:21.552
that actually makes it easier
for us to control our weight

642
00:27:21.596 --> 00:27:23.816
than eating a diet
of refined foods

643
00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:26.601
that's directly unhealthy
but also makes it

644
00:27:26.645 --> 00:27:27.950
more difficult to control
our weight.

645
00:27:27.994 --> 00:27:29.735
What I found in my research
is that Harvard

646
00:27:29.778 --> 00:27:31.737
has also received
a great deal of money

647
00:27:31.780 --> 00:27:35.828
from one of the largest
vegetable oil manufacturers
in the world

648
00:27:35.871 --> 00:27:37.351
called Unilever.

649
00:27:37.394 --> 00:27:40.789
Willett is a scientific advisor

650
00:27:40.833 --> 00:27:43.139
to numerous industry
backed consortiums

651
00:27:43.183 --> 00:27:45.489
that promote
grain consumption.

652
00:27:45.533 --> 00:27:47.013
Like Old Ways

653
00:27:47.056 --> 00:27:50.538
and the International Carbohydrate Quality Consortium

654
00:27:50.581 --> 00:27:53.454
all funded by Barilla Pasta
and Kellogg's

655
00:27:53.497 --> 00:27:56.500
and all these carbohydrate
makers that have Willett

656
00:27:56.544 --> 00:28:00.287
on as their top spokesperson
or top advisor,

657
00:28:00.330 --> 00:28:01.723
organizing conferences
for them.

658
00:28:01.767 --> 00:28:05.118
In 2013, I think,
when Naturemagazine,

659
00:28:05.161 --> 00:28:08.730
when they had a rare
editorial kind of critique

660
00:28:08.774 --> 00:28:10.558
of Walter Willett, they said

661
00:28:10.601 --> 00:28:12.342
one of the things
that he did

662
00:28:12.386 --> 00:28:16.869
was that he continually
simplified his data
and published data

663
00:28:16.912 --> 00:28:19.393
that really ought
not to be published.

664
00:28:19.436 --> 00:28:22.526
How could we find out
who to trust
besides your book.

665
00:28:25.965 --> 00:28:27.749
There's overload
of information.

666
00:28:27.793 --> 00:28:30.447
Anybody can set themselves up
as being an expert.

667
00:28:30.491 --> 00:28:34.103
Uh, and the public is
understandably confused.

668
00:28:34.147 --> 00:28:35.714
It's interesting that

669
00:28:35.757 --> 00:28:38.717
there's such a crusade against red meat versus other meats.

670
00:28:38.760 --> 00:28:40.762
And this really comes down
to the fact that

671
00:28:40.806 --> 00:28:42.938
red meat has saturated fat

672
00:28:42.982 --> 00:28:46.463
and that we've been told
that saturated fat is bad.

673
00:28:46.507 --> 00:28:49.815
Is there a scenario
where we shouldn't
eat saturated fat?

674
00:28:49.858 --> 00:28:52.121
There's no reason
to fear saturated fat.

675
00:28:52.165 --> 00:28:53.688
It's just fine to eat.

676
00:28:53.732 --> 00:28:56.735
It's not an issue for health

677
00:28:56.778 --> 00:28:59.607
if you look at
the medical studies

678
00:28:59.650 --> 00:29:01.870
that have tested
this hypothesis.

679
00:29:01.914 --> 00:29:06.092
If you take them all together
and look at all of the data,

680
00:29:06.135 --> 00:29:08.747
there's no effects
on health really.

681
00:29:08.790 --> 00:29:10.487
People have been
warned for years

682
00:29:10.531 --> 00:29:13.708
about the dangers of eating
too many saturated fats

683
00:29:13.752 --> 00:29:16.319
and the risks they pose
for heart disease.

684
00:29:16.363 --> 00:29:19.322
But a new analysis
of more than 70 studies

685
00:29:19.366 --> 00:29:20.802
finds that saturated fats

686
00:29:20.846 --> 00:29:23.500
do not necessarily lead
to greater problems

687
00:29:23.544 --> 00:29:24.632
with heart health.

688
00:29:32.335 --> 00:29:35.599
My strength
and my background
is in clinical medicine,

689
00:29:35.643 --> 00:29:37.819
using a keto diet to help

690
00:29:37.863 --> 00:29:41.083
fix obesity, diabetes, and
many other health problems.

691
00:29:41.127 --> 00:29:42.911
I've learned a lot

692
00:29:42.955 --> 00:29:46.654
by reading the books
Good Calories, Bad Calories
by Gary Taubes

693
00:29:46.697 --> 00:29:49.831
and The Big Fat Surprise
by Nina Teicholz.

694
00:29:49.875 --> 00:29:51.746
And one of the things
I've learned

695
00:29:51.790 --> 00:29:55.445
is that the emphasis
against saturated fat

696
00:29:55.489 --> 00:29:58.187
is also a political emphasis.

697
00:29:58.231 --> 00:30:01.234
So, that because
America doesn't make

698
00:30:01.277 --> 00:30:04.498
lots of saturated fat
kinds of products

699
00:30:04.541 --> 00:30:07.196
and because the
nutritional epidemiologists

700
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:10.417
are funded by other companies

701
00:30:10.460 --> 00:30:13.289
that make products that
don't have saturated fats,

702
00:30:13.333 --> 00:30:16.553
there's a bias against them
which is not scientific.

703
00:30:16.597 --> 00:30:20.731
If saturated fat
raises your cholesterol,

704
00:30:20.775 --> 00:30:24.387
and if cholesterol
can in some situations

705
00:30:24.431 --> 00:30:26.520
be related to
increased heart risk,

706
00:30:26.563 --> 00:30:29.436
then anything
that is a saturated fat

707
00:30:29.479 --> 00:30:31.568
must be related
to increased heart risk.

708
00:30:31.612 --> 00:30:35.094
It's this line
of illogical thinking

709
00:30:35.137 --> 00:30:37.487
that has led institutions

710
00:30:37.531 --> 00:30:39.359
like the
American Heart Association

711
00:30:39.402 --> 00:30:43.754
to demonize anything
that's a saturated fat.

712
00:30:43.798 --> 00:30:45.713
Yeah, nothing against
medical doctors.

713
00:30:45.756 --> 00:30:47.193
It's just that when,

714
00:30:47.236 --> 00:30:48.672
you know,
when you're in a club

715
00:30:48.716 --> 00:30:50.936
and they keep telling you
the same thing in the club,

716
00:30:50.979 --> 00:30:52.415
and this is
the only way it is,

717
00:30:52.459 --> 00:30:55.418
and you never see
any other viewpoint,

718
00:30:55.462 --> 00:30:56.811
you just start believing.

719
00:30:56.855 --> 00:30:58.508
Religion works like that.

720
00:30:58.552 --> 00:31:00.380
You know, um,

721
00:31:00.423 --> 00:31:03.774
you will be in one religion
at the expense of
every other religion.

722
00:31:03.818 --> 00:31:07.039
And even though they all say
pretty much the same thing,

723
00:31:07.082 --> 00:31:08.910
some people will look
at their religion and go,

724
00:31:08.954 --> 00:31:11.478
"Your religion's not good
because mine's the best."

725
00:31:11.521 --> 00:31:13.741
I tell people
who are in my clinic,

726
00:31:13.784 --> 00:31:15.874
who are working
with other doctors

727
00:31:15.917 --> 00:31:18.137
and cardiologists
in particular,

728
00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:19.399
to just tell them

729
00:31:19.442 --> 00:31:21.967
they're doing a Modified
Mediterranean Diet.

730
00:31:22.010 --> 00:31:24.534
And the other doctor will go,
"Oh, well, that's fine."

731
00:31:24.578 --> 00:31:26.275
And they won't ask any more

732
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:27.537
because they're
not really sure

733
00:31:27.581 --> 00:31:30.192
what the Modified
Mediterranean Diet is.

734
00:31:30.236 --> 00:31:31.715
But they know it's good.

735
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.066
So, I know it kind of plays
the politics a little bit,

736
00:31:34.109 --> 00:31:37.504
but we're in that space
where, um,

737
00:31:37.547 --> 00:31:39.941
doctors sometimes
knee jerk against things

738
00:31:39.985 --> 00:31:42.639
that they don't know
and using familiar terms

739
00:31:42.683 --> 00:31:44.946
can actually make it
easier for my patients

740
00:31:44.990 --> 00:31:48.732
to not get pushback
from other doctors.

741
00:31:48.776 --> 00:31:50.256
I guess the other
question though,

742
00:31:50.299 --> 00:31:53.520
is it something magical
that's going to help everybody

743
00:31:53.563 --> 00:31:56.001
shed pounds
and feel wonderful.

744
00:31:56.044 --> 00:31:58.655
And the truth may
not be that far either.

745
00:31:58.699 --> 00:32:01.223
But it's important
that we can't go out

746
00:32:01.267 --> 00:32:03.660
and demonize one type of food

747
00:32:03.704 --> 00:32:06.663
simply because
we think there's a theory

748
00:32:06.707 --> 00:32:08.448
that it might be
related to something.

749
00:32:08.491 --> 00:32:11.320
I mean, people listen strongly

750
00:32:11.364 --> 00:32:13.105
to the recommendations
of these guidelines.

751
00:32:13.148 --> 00:32:14.584
The vast majority
of the calories

752
00:32:14.628 --> 00:32:17.065
are really coming
from bad stuff.

753
00:32:17.109 --> 00:32:18.893
And so, if you're
looking at red meat

754
00:32:18.937 --> 00:32:20.939
and don't specify
the comparison,

755
00:32:20.982 --> 00:32:22.810
you may not see
much with red meat

756
00:32:22.853 --> 00:32:24.725
because you're comparing it

757
00:32:24.768 --> 00:32:26.814
with a lot of other
bad stuff in a diet,

758
00:32:26.857 --> 00:32:28.772
a lot of refined
starch, sugar,

759
00:32:28.816 --> 00:32:31.166
uh, partially
hydrogenated oils.

760
00:32:31.210 --> 00:32:34.953
Epidemiology, you always
find at the bottom of
one of the Harvard papers,

761
00:32:34.996 --> 00:32:38.521
"Oh, you know,
our caveat is that
it's only in association.

762
00:32:38.565 --> 00:32:41.220
"It does not prove causation.
More studies are needed."

763
00:32:41.263 --> 00:32:44.484
But if you look at the press
release that accompanies it,

764
00:32:44.527 --> 00:32:46.965
uh, the headline
is almost always like,

765
00:32:47.008 --> 00:32:50.185
you know, "Oh, coconut oil
causes heart disease."

766
00:32:50.229 --> 00:32:52.144
Well, there's nothing wrong with coconut oil.

767
00:32:52.187 --> 00:32:53.449
It's perfectly safe

768
00:32:53.493 --> 00:32:55.408
and actually very healthy

769
00:32:55.451 --> 00:32:57.888
to use in your diet
and in cooking.

770
00:32:57.932 --> 00:33:00.282
Good for your skin,
not good in your body.

771
00:33:00.326 --> 00:33:01.936
But we always hear about

772
00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:04.156
these controversies
coming out

773
00:33:04.199 --> 00:33:06.767
and it only has to do
with the fact that

774
00:33:06.810 --> 00:33:10.553
other industries who are
making hydrogenated oils

775
00:33:10.597 --> 00:33:12.860
don't want this
pure natural oil

776
00:33:12.903 --> 00:33:15.341
to be anywhere
near their product.

777
00:33:15.384 --> 00:33:17.038
The big problem
with coconut oil

778
00:33:17.082 --> 00:33:19.519
is it's high
in saturated fats.

779
00:33:19.562 --> 00:33:22.043
And as the American
Heart Association tells us,

780
00:33:22.087 --> 00:33:25.133
saturated fat can increase
your bad cholesterol,

781
00:33:25.177 --> 00:33:27.048
and that can lead
to heart disease.

782
00:33:27.092 --> 00:33:29.659
Coconut and palm oil
have definitely been

783
00:33:29.703 --> 00:33:33.228
polarizing oils
over the past few years,

784
00:33:33.272 --> 00:33:35.665
and it's so interesting
to see why.

785
00:33:35.709 --> 00:33:36.797
You know, they're...

786
00:33:36.840 --> 00:33:39.234
First, they're
vegetarian based oils.

787
00:33:39.278 --> 00:33:41.019
So, based on that,

788
00:33:41.062 --> 00:33:43.369
you would think that
they should be healthy

789
00:33:43.412 --> 00:33:47.025
if the myth of vegetarian
being the best diet is true.

790
00:33:47.068 --> 00:33:49.070
But because they have
saturated fats,

791
00:33:49.114 --> 00:33:52.291
the American Heart Association
came out against them

792
00:33:52.334 --> 00:33:53.901
cautioning their ingestion

793
00:33:53.944 --> 00:33:55.729
because they have
saturated fat.

794
00:33:55.772 --> 00:33:58.906
So, it's that transitive
property of math

795
00:33:58.949 --> 00:34:00.081
that doesn't always work.

796
00:34:00.125 --> 00:34:02.127
I was invited once to speak

797
00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:04.303
at a palm oil conference

798
00:34:04.346 --> 00:34:06.522
by the manufacturers
of palm oil.

799
00:34:06.566 --> 00:34:07.828
And they explained to me that

800
00:34:07.871 --> 00:34:09.917
they were having difficulty
getting through

801
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.182
a sort of taboo or cartel
against palm oil

802
00:34:14.226 --> 00:34:17.577
because of the saturated fat
in the food.

803
00:34:17.620 --> 00:34:20.493
And because we know
saturated fat is bad
and all that.

804
00:34:20.536 --> 00:34:23.017
And I think it was
in Nina Teicholz's book

805
00:34:23.061 --> 00:34:24.410
where I first learned that.

806
00:34:24.453 --> 00:34:27.848
The whole campaign against
so-called tropical oils,

807
00:34:27.891 --> 00:34:30.198
which is coconut oil
and palm oil.

808
00:34:30.242 --> 00:34:32.548
In my research, I discovered

809
00:34:32.592 --> 00:34:34.202
that this was

810
00:34:34.246 --> 00:34:38.163
something of just a trade war
between industries.

811
00:34:38.206 --> 00:34:39.773
And it's been going on,

812
00:34:39.816 --> 00:34:43.733
uh, actually since
the 1920s and '30s.

813
00:34:43.777 --> 00:34:45.474
Palm oil, I think
it was at the time,

814
00:34:45.518 --> 00:34:48.173
started being imported
in increasing amounts
from Malaysia.

815
00:34:48.216 --> 00:34:52.220
And the vegetable
oil industry said,

816
00:34:52.264 --> 00:34:54.570
"We can't have this happen.
They're talking over
our market share."

817
00:34:54.614 --> 00:34:56.137
And underwent
this huge campaign

818
00:34:56.181 --> 00:34:59.575
basically to just
slander these oils.

819
00:34:59.619 --> 00:35:03.144
And actually I think that
what they did is they put
a tax on it at that point.

820
00:35:03.188 --> 00:35:06.452
They got the government
to tax these oils

821
00:35:06.495 --> 00:35:08.236
because they didn't
want the competition.

822
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.152
Fast forward to 1980s.

823
00:35:11.196 --> 00:35:13.241
There's a rise
in the use, again,

824
00:35:13.285 --> 00:35:16.897
of coconut oil and palm oil
because they are solid,

825
00:35:16.940 --> 00:35:20.379
safe fats, so they're good
for popping popcorn
in movie theaters.

826
00:35:20.422 --> 00:35:23.686
They were used by all
the packaged food companies
like Kraft.

827
00:35:23.730 --> 00:35:25.688
Nabisco used them
for their cereals

828
00:35:25.732 --> 00:35:28.343
and anything that
needed to stay safe

829
00:35:28.387 --> 00:35:30.606
and solid on a shelf
in a supermarket.

830
00:35:30.650 --> 00:35:33.522
So, there started to be
this increase in
the importation again

831
00:35:33.566 --> 00:35:35.698
of coconut oil and palm oil.

832
00:35:35.742 --> 00:35:37.831
Well, that really threatened

833
00:35:37.874 --> 00:35:40.181
the makers of soy bean oil

834
00:35:40.225 --> 00:35:41.661
and the soy bean industry

835
00:35:41.704 --> 00:35:43.271
because soy bean
is far and away

836
00:35:43.315 --> 00:35:45.360
the biggest oil that
Americans consume.

837
00:35:45.404 --> 00:35:47.493
So, they started a campaign

838
00:35:47.536 --> 00:35:50.235
against coconut oil
and palm oil.

839
00:35:50.278 --> 00:35:52.062
They call them
the tropical oils.

840
00:35:52.106 --> 00:35:55.805
And this was a campaign,
really a trade war campaign

841
00:35:55.849 --> 00:36:00.201
sort of in the shroud
of a health concern issue.

842
00:36:00.245 --> 00:36:02.029
So, if they're going to say
something like that,

843
00:36:02.072 --> 00:36:05.772
they should have
very strong evidence
behind it to back it up.

844
00:36:05.815 --> 00:36:07.556
And there is no evidence

845
00:36:07.600 --> 00:36:09.906
to demonize these oils
the way they have.

846
00:36:09.950 --> 00:36:13.910
They can be a very good part
of a healthy diet

847
00:36:13.954 --> 00:36:15.521
and there's no reason at all

848
00:36:15.564 --> 00:36:18.524
to be worried about them
as has been proposed.

849
00:36:18.567 --> 00:36:22.702
There's a lot of bad science
that I think implicates

850
00:36:22.745 --> 00:36:25.095
saturated fat
and leads to this idea

851
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:27.228
that we should replace it
with vegetable oils.

852
00:36:27.272 --> 00:36:29.230
"Oh, those must be
good for us because
they're vegetables."

853
00:36:29.274 --> 00:36:31.014
In fact, they're
not from vegetables,

854
00:36:31.058 --> 00:36:33.147
they're from seeds and beans.

855
00:36:33.191 --> 00:36:36.194
So, sunflower, safflower,
corn, soy bean,

856
00:36:36.237 --> 00:36:37.673
they're all beans and seeds.

857
00:36:37.717 --> 00:36:39.762
And you have to use high heat

858
00:36:39.806 --> 00:36:41.808
and a heavy metal chelate

859
00:36:41.851 --> 00:36:44.463
in order to get the oils
out of them.

860
00:36:44.506 --> 00:36:46.769
Winterized, deodorized
and stabilized.

861
00:36:46.813 --> 00:36:49.816
I mean, they initially
come out of this gray,
disgusting liquid.

862
00:36:49.859 --> 00:36:51.513
And then they have to be
turned into something

863
00:36:51.557 --> 00:36:53.863
that might seem like
it could be consumed
for humans.

864
00:36:53.907 --> 00:36:55.387
And they've also gone
through name changes.

865
00:36:55.430 --> 00:36:57.476
Now they're trying
to call them plant oils
I think,

866
00:36:57.519 --> 00:36:58.955
to seem even more appealing.

867
00:36:58.999 --> 00:37:01.958
If you compare saturated fat
with healthy plant oils,

868
00:37:02.002 --> 00:37:03.830
uh, using those
healthy plant oils

869
00:37:03.873 --> 00:37:07.007
will definitely reduce
the risk of heart disease

870
00:37:07.050 --> 00:37:09.836
while they're improving
blood lipids at the same time.

871
00:37:09.879 --> 00:37:12.186
You know, healthy people
tend to eat vegetable oils.

872
00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:14.667
It's the jest of the problem
when you do these studies,

873
00:37:14.710 --> 00:37:17.278
what you do is you
tell people how to eat.

874
00:37:17.322 --> 00:37:20.760
So, in the 1970s,
you tell them they should
avoid saturated fat

875
00:37:20.803 --> 00:37:23.589
and eat vegetable oils
and then you follow them
for 30 years

876
00:37:23.632 --> 00:37:25.721
and lo and behold
you find out 30 years later

877
00:37:25.765 --> 00:37:28.463
that healthier people
have indeed been doing exactly

878
00:37:28.507 --> 00:37:31.205
what you told them to do
because they're
health conscious.

879
00:37:31.249 --> 00:37:33.251
By the end of the 1980s,

880
00:37:33.294 --> 00:37:36.558
between that campaign
and various other efforts
to get rid of tropical oils,

881
00:37:36.602 --> 00:37:40.040
most of the tropical oils
had been taken out
of the food supply.

882
00:37:40.083 --> 00:37:42.260
And so, they're
avoiding saturated fats

883
00:37:42.303 --> 00:37:46.351
and using vegetable oils
to cook with instead,

884
00:37:46.394 --> 00:37:48.048
and they're healthier.

885
00:37:48.091 --> 00:37:49.658
But that doesn't mean
they got healthier

886
00:37:49.702 --> 00:37:52.226
because they used
the vegetable oils.

887
00:37:52.270 --> 00:37:55.838
You know, I do wonder
if the recent outcry
against tropical oils

888
00:37:55.882 --> 00:37:58.928
that you've seen by
the American Heart Association
and by Harvard,

889
00:37:58.972 --> 00:38:03.368
I really wonder to what extent
we're seeing just a redux
of this same trade war.

890
00:38:03.411 --> 00:38:05.152
I know that Harvard is funded

891
00:38:05.195 --> 00:38:07.328
by vegetable oil companies

892
00:38:07.372 --> 00:38:08.416
that compete

893
00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:09.939
with tropical oils.

894
00:38:09.983 --> 00:38:11.767
So, one really has to wonder

895
00:38:11.811 --> 00:38:14.640
if they're now sort of
trotting out scientists

896
00:38:14.683 --> 00:38:19.297
to protect the domestic
American soy bean
and soy bean oil industries.

897
00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:22.300
So, there are two changes
that I think are necessary.

898
00:38:22.343 --> 00:38:24.476
First, we need to get away
from this idea that

899
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:25.912
saturated fat is bad for us.

900
00:38:25.955 --> 00:38:27.740
It's really not
a major factor.

901
00:38:27.783 --> 00:38:31.918
We need to accept that
saturated fat can be part
of a healthy diet.

902
00:38:31.961 --> 00:38:33.789
Second thing,

903
00:38:33.833 --> 00:38:36.923
we need to get away
from is this idea
that it's all about calories,

904
00:38:36.966 --> 00:38:39.578
that just by counting calories,
eating less,

905
00:38:39.621 --> 00:38:43.886
and running more you would
magically sort of lose weight.

906
00:38:43.930 --> 00:38:46.889
It's really not effective for
the vast majority of people

907
00:38:46.933 --> 00:38:48.369
and we need to focus more on

908
00:38:48.413 --> 00:38:50.458
the hormonal regulation
of weight,

909
00:38:50.502 --> 00:38:53.635
live in a way that
makes our body

910
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.420
normalize the hormones

911
00:38:55.463 --> 00:38:57.291
including the fat storing
hormone insulin,

912
00:38:57.335 --> 00:39:00.947
so that it becomes much easier
to maintain a good weight.

913
00:39:00.990 --> 00:39:03.906
The fact of the matter is
exercise is very important.

914
00:39:03.950 --> 00:39:05.952
I always call it
the fountain of youth.

915
00:39:05.995 --> 00:39:09.259
The problem is that it's
not good for weight loss.

916
00:39:09.303 --> 00:39:11.349
We've been teaching people
you have to exercise,

917
00:39:11.392 --> 00:39:12.828
you have to exercise.

918
00:39:12.872 --> 00:39:15.527
And I've had people
who can't exercise

919
00:39:15.570 --> 00:39:19.748
because of a bum knee
or just they don't like it

920
00:39:19.792 --> 00:39:21.489
and they don't even
try to lose weight

921
00:39:21.533 --> 00:39:22.838
or fix their diabetes

922
00:39:22.882 --> 00:39:25.188
because they've been told
they have to exercise.

923
00:39:25.232 --> 00:39:28.583
In fact, this is perpetuated
by a lot of doctors as well.

924
00:39:28.627 --> 00:39:30.411
And because
it's worked for them,

925
00:39:30.455 --> 00:39:32.500
they think it'll work
for other people.

926
00:39:32.544 --> 00:39:34.459
Now, I'm a big proponent
of exercise

927
00:39:34.502 --> 00:39:38.680
and I think exercise
is crucial for a healthy
overall lifestyle.

928
00:39:38.724 --> 00:39:40.769
But it's not the go-to way
to lose weight.

929
00:39:40.813 --> 00:39:44.860
It was in the best interest
of these snack companies

930
00:39:44.904 --> 00:39:49.212
and the companies making
the high carbohydrate,
low fat foods.

931
00:39:49.256 --> 00:39:51.301
It was in their
best interest to say

932
00:39:51.345 --> 00:39:54.914
as long as you're exercising
and as long as you're
burning calories

933
00:39:54.957 --> 00:39:58.178
then you can eat whatever
you want and however
much you want.

934
00:39:58.221 --> 00:39:59.919
That's what padded
their bottom line.

935
00:39:59.962 --> 00:40:01.616
And that's what
sold more products.

936
00:40:01.660 --> 00:40:03.792
And that's what helped
perpetuate this myth

937
00:40:03.836 --> 00:40:06.926
that exercise was
the best thing you could do
for your health

938
00:40:06.969 --> 00:40:08.841
and you could exercise away

939
00:40:08.884 --> 00:40:11.452
any amount
of poor dietary indiscretion.

940
00:40:11.496 --> 00:40:14.150
In theory, the idea makes a lot of sense.

941
00:40:14.194 --> 00:40:15.935
You burn calories
through exercise,

942
00:40:15.978 --> 00:40:18.720
which must lead to fat loss.

943
00:40:18.764 --> 00:40:21.462
The laws of thermodynamics
is a good idea.

944
00:40:21.506 --> 00:40:22.768
It just doesn't work here.

945
00:40:22.811 --> 00:40:24.944
You cannot outrun a bad diet.

946
00:40:24.987 --> 00:40:28.426
So, modern
nutrition science begins
in the late 1860s

947
00:40:28.469 --> 00:40:30.558
with the invention
by German researchers

948
00:40:30.602 --> 00:40:33.169
of devices called calorimeters

949
00:40:33.213 --> 00:40:35.911
that allow you to measure
the energy expended

950
00:40:35.955 --> 00:40:40.089
by a large animal
like a dog or a human.

951
00:40:40.133 --> 00:40:42.004
So, you live
inside these rooms

952
00:40:42.048 --> 00:40:45.355
and you can get a measurement
of how much energy's expended.

953
00:40:45.399 --> 00:40:47.488
And so, by the 1860s,

954
00:40:47.532 --> 00:40:49.229
the nutrition community,
for the first time ever,

955
00:40:49.272 --> 00:40:52.493
can measure the energy that
people consume in foods

956
00:40:52.537 --> 00:40:55.409
and burn the foods in what's
called a bomb calorimeter.

957
00:40:55.453 --> 00:40:56.845
And you measure
the heat released

958
00:40:56.889 --> 00:40:59.457
and that tells you how much
energy was in the foods.

959
00:40:59.500 --> 00:41:01.546
And now you can measure
the energy out.

960
00:41:01.589 --> 00:41:03.243
And for the next
50 to 60 years,

961
00:41:03.286 --> 00:41:05.463
all of nutrition science...

962
00:41:05.506 --> 00:41:07.029
All of nutrition science

963
00:41:07.073 --> 00:41:10.424
was basically measuring
energy in and energy out

964
00:41:10.468 --> 00:41:12.992
and vitamin and mineral
deficiency diseases

965
00:41:13.035 --> 00:41:15.081
and protein requirements

966
00:41:15.124 --> 00:41:18.563
and a little bit
about things like fiber.

967
00:41:18.606 --> 00:41:21.043
And so, by the early 1900s,

968
00:41:21.087 --> 00:41:23.611
when researchers,

969
00:41:23.655 --> 00:41:26.788
clinical investigators,
physicians
interested in these problems

970
00:41:26.832 --> 00:41:31.010
are trying to come up
with a hypothesis of obesity.

971
00:41:31.053 --> 00:41:33.099
And related to
the food we consume,

972
00:41:33.142 --> 00:41:35.971
all they have are
energy in, energy out,

973
00:41:36.015 --> 00:41:39.409
vitamins, minerals,
protein, fiber.

974
00:41:39.453 --> 00:41:41.803
And they can't figure out
a way that vitamins
and minerals

975
00:41:41.847 --> 00:41:44.545
and protein and fiber
can play a meaningful
role in obesity.

976
00:41:44.589 --> 00:41:47.200
So they end up with
energy in and energy out.
That's it.

977
00:41:47.243 --> 00:41:49.245
That's because that's what
they can measure.

978
00:41:49.289 --> 00:41:51.378
And that becomes
a theory ever since.

979
00:41:51.421 --> 00:41:54.337
And it gets locked in.
And it stays locked in.
That's the weird thing.

980
00:41:54.381 --> 00:41:57.819
And 1921-22,
the hormone insulin
is discovered

981
00:41:57.863 --> 00:41:59.821
and the science
of endocrinology,

982
00:41:59.865 --> 00:42:03.303
of hormones
and hormone related diseases
starts to explode.

983
00:42:04.609 --> 00:42:07.916
But you still can't measure
the impact of food

984
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:13.356
on the hormone levels
in the blood until the 1960s.

985
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:16.708
So, it's only in the 1960s,
that you have another way

986
00:42:16.751 --> 00:42:19.232
that you can study
that food influences

987
00:42:19.275 --> 00:42:22.104
what our body is doing.

988
00:42:22.148 --> 00:42:24.280
And by that time we've
had 50 years of thinking

989
00:42:24.324 --> 00:42:26.500
of obesity as an
energy balance disorder.

990
00:42:26.544 --> 00:42:28.067
We realize that

991
00:42:28.110 --> 00:42:29.982
if you change
the hormonal status,

992
00:42:30.025 --> 00:42:33.376
elevate insulin levels,
depress glucagon levels.

993
00:42:33.420 --> 00:42:35.553
You know, growth hormone
is playing a role

994
00:42:35.596 --> 00:42:37.598
and our foods
are influencing all of that.

995
00:42:38.643 --> 00:42:39.948
Nobody cares.

996
00:42:39.992 --> 00:42:41.384
It's just too complicated.

997
00:42:41.428 --> 00:42:44.344
This energy balance idea
is too big to fail.

998
00:42:44.387 --> 00:42:47.216
And then diet book doctors
get involved.

999
00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:50.306
First Herman Taller
writes a book called
Calories Don't Count

1000
00:42:50.350 --> 00:42:52.787
and then the infamous
Robert Atkins.

1001
00:42:52.831 --> 00:42:54.441
And they read the research
and they say,

1002
00:42:54.484 --> 00:42:56.617
"Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.

1003
00:42:56.661 --> 00:42:58.445
"It's not about
how much you eat.

1004
00:42:58.488 --> 00:43:00.534
"It's a hormonal thing.

1005
00:43:00.578 --> 00:43:03.711
"It's the carbs are the problem.Get rid of the carbs."

1006
00:43:03.755 --> 00:43:06.366
And now the research community
doesn't like this idea

1007
00:43:06.409 --> 00:43:10.326
'cause it's coming
from these cowboy
diet book doctors.

1008
00:43:10.370 --> 00:43:11.850
And they don't want to
listen to them.

1009
00:43:11.893 --> 00:43:13.721
Some very petty
human emotions

1010
00:43:13.765 --> 00:43:16.681
feed into this idea that
we should continue

1011
00:43:16.724 --> 00:43:19.248
to tell people to do
the wrong thing.

1012
00:43:19.292 --> 00:43:20.641
And they should
do the wrong thing,

1013
00:43:20.685 --> 00:43:23.513
and if it fails
we can blame them.

1014
00:43:23.557 --> 00:43:25.472
Never think that
our advice is wrong

1015
00:43:25.515 --> 00:43:28.562
'cause we've got
the laws of thermal dynamics
propping them up.

1016
00:43:28.606 --> 00:43:30.477
We always
get into this argument over

1017
00:43:30.520 --> 00:43:33.611
what's the best fuel
to put in your body.

1018
00:43:33.654 --> 00:43:37.571
One thing everyone agrees on
is that sugar is bad for you.

1019
00:43:37.615 --> 00:43:41.183
And when I say everyone,
I mean almost everyone.

1020
00:43:41.227 --> 00:43:44.665
Some doctors, including one
who proposes a vegan diet,

1021
00:43:44.709 --> 00:43:47.973
says sugar is not
the major cause of diabetes.

1022
00:43:48.016 --> 00:43:50.236
You really have to
see this to believe it.

1023
00:43:50.279 --> 00:43:54.893
Carbohydrate, including
pure white sugar,

1024
00:43:54.936 --> 00:43:57.635
increases the sensitivity
to insulin.

1025
00:43:57.678 --> 00:43:59.854
It was published by Brunzell

1026
00:43:59.898 --> 00:44:01.726
from the
University of Washington

1027
00:44:01.769 --> 00:44:06.034
in The New England Journal
of Medicinein,
I think, '78.

1028
00:44:06.078 --> 00:44:07.514
Brunzell is his name.

1029
00:44:07.557 --> 00:44:09.821
He took Type 2 diabetics,

1030
00:44:09.864 --> 00:44:11.692
he made a synthetic diet...

1031
00:44:11.736 --> 00:44:15.522
45% sugar
and then double, white sugar,

1032
00:44:15.565 --> 00:44:18.133
multi-dextrose,
plain table sugar,

1033
00:44:18.177 --> 00:44:20.832
doubled it to 85% white sugar.

1034
00:44:20.875 --> 00:44:23.965
Every aspect of
the diabetes improved.

1035
00:44:24.009 --> 00:44:27.577
Walter Kempner
back in the '40s and '50s

1036
00:44:27.621 --> 00:44:31.451
published his results
on treating Type 2 diabetics

1037
00:44:32.408 --> 00:44:33.409
with rice,

1038
00:44:34.367 --> 00:44:37.587
table sugar, fruit and juice.

1039
00:44:37.631 --> 00:44:40.329
And Kempner knew
back in the '50s

1040
00:44:40.373 --> 00:44:45.508
that sugar makes insulin work
better and cures diabetics.

1041
00:44:45.552 --> 00:44:48.555
But you see, we've got it
entirely backwards these days

1042
00:44:48.598 --> 00:44:51.732
thinking sugar
causes diabetes.

1043
00:44:51.776 --> 00:44:53.952
It's just,
it's so backward and bizarre.

1044
00:44:53.995 --> 00:44:55.562
Nobody stands a chance.

1045
00:44:55.605 --> 00:44:57.259
I didn't think
we would have to clarify

1046
00:44:57.303 --> 00:44:58.739
what sugar does to your body.

1047
00:44:58.783 --> 00:45:00.654
But here are
just a few reasons

1048
00:45:00.698 --> 00:45:02.177
why it's bad for you.

1049
00:45:02.221 --> 00:45:04.179
Some people easily understand

1050
00:45:04.223 --> 00:45:05.267
that sugar is bad.

1051
00:45:05.311 --> 00:45:07.182
And they can avoid foods

1052
00:45:07.226 --> 00:45:09.750
that have sugar
or the sugar free things.

1053
00:45:09.794 --> 00:45:11.665
And the problem is,

1054
00:45:11.709 --> 00:45:15.756
it doesn't explain
all of the carbohydrate effect
on the blood sugar.

1055
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:17.279
So starches,

1056
00:45:17.323 --> 00:45:19.804
including the breads, pasta,
rice, fruit, those things,

1057
00:45:19.847 --> 00:45:22.807
raise the blood sugar
just like real sugar

1058
00:45:22.850 --> 00:45:24.809
or actual sugar
and even honey,

1059
00:45:24.852 --> 00:45:27.072
natural sugar,
raises the blood sugar.

1060
00:45:27.115 --> 00:45:30.031
One of my favorite things
when you walk in to
Eric Westman's office,

1061
00:45:30.075 --> 00:45:32.207
and I've never walked in,
but people who have,

1062
00:45:32.251 --> 00:45:35.080
apparently there's a sign
on the wall that says that

1063
00:45:35.123 --> 00:45:36.734
fruit is nature's candy.

1064
00:45:36.777 --> 00:45:38.605
The reason that
sign is up there

1065
00:45:38.648 --> 00:45:41.216
is that most people
don't realize

1066
00:45:41.260 --> 00:45:44.393
that having fruit
can raise the blood sugar,

1067
00:45:44.437 --> 00:45:47.527
can make diabetes worse,

1068
00:45:47.570 --> 00:45:49.007
can lead to obesity.

1069
00:45:49.050 --> 00:45:51.531
It raises your blood sugar,

1070
00:45:51.574 --> 00:45:54.099
increases
the fat storing hormone insulin

1071
00:45:54.142 --> 00:45:56.362
and puts the body
into fat storing mode,

1072
00:45:56.405 --> 00:45:57.624
fat in the liver.

1073
00:45:57.667 --> 00:45:59.060
If you eat a lot of sugar,

1074
00:45:59.104 --> 00:46:01.323
you would end up
with a fatty liver

1075
00:46:01.367 --> 00:46:06.807
and that increases,
um, fasting insulin levels.

1076
00:46:06.851 --> 00:46:08.853
You get insulin resistance

1077
00:46:08.896 --> 00:46:11.464
and high insulin levels
all through the day.

1078
00:46:11.507 --> 00:46:12.944
Sugar is addictive.

1079
00:46:12.987 --> 00:46:15.642
And it may not be
addictive for everyone,

1080
00:46:15.685 --> 00:46:18.210
just like alcohol isn't
addictive for everyone.

1081
00:46:18.253 --> 00:46:20.255
But it's addictive for
a large number of people.

1082
00:46:20.299 --> 00:46:22.170
I mean, I've been spending

1083
00:46:22.214 --> 00:46:24.433
the past at least 17 years
as a psychiatrist

1084
00:46:24.477 --> 00:46:26.131
talking to people,

1085
00:46:26.174 --> 00:46:29.047
thousands and thousands of
people hearing their stories.

1086
00:46:29.090 --> 00:46:31.353
And when I talk
to people about food,

1087
00:46:31.397 --> 00:46:34.617
there are many clues
to addiction in their stories.

1088
00:46:34.661 --> 00:46:36.794
My name is Georgia Ede.
I'm a psychiatrist.

1089
00:46:36.837 --> 00:46:41.189
Georgia Ede, the only words
I could come up with
for her is pioneer.

1090
00:46:41.233 --> 00:46:44.845
She's a psychiatrist.
She's a medical doctor.

1091
00:46:44.889 --> 00:46:46.891
And as a psychiatrist,

1092
00:46:46.934 --> 00:46:50.155
the first thing that happens
if you go to one of these
people with a problem

1093
00:46:50.198 --> 00:46:53.506
is they're looking to
put you on a medication.

1094
00:46:53.549 --> 00:46:55.508
Georgia, not the same thing.

1095
00:46:55.551 --> 00:46:56.857
Georgia is there,

1096
00:46:56.901 --> 00:46:59.251
uh, trying to figure out
if she can heal you,

1097
00:46:59.294 --> 00:47:01.166
number one,
without medication,

1098
00:47:01.209 --> 00:47:03.951
number two, which is
as important as number one,

1099
00:47:03.995 --> 00:47:05.648
let's try to do it with food.

1100
00:47:05.692 --> 00:47:07.563
Being preoccupied with food,

1101
00:47:07.607 --> 00:47:10.740
feeling guilty after eating
food that they think is,

1102
00:47:10.784 --> 00:47:12.655
"bad for them,"

1103
00:47:12.699 --> 00:47:14.483
and spending a lot of time

1104
00:47:14.527 --> 00:47:16.050
thinking about food

1105
00:47:16.094 --> 00:47:18.879
that would be better spent
doing other things.

1106
00:47:18.923 --> 00:47:21.229
And I think that it's
one of the things

1107
00:47:21.273 --> 00:47:23.275
that people really
want a lot of help with.

1108
00:47:23.318 --> 00:47:27.018
When I'm talking to
people about food,

1109
00:47:27.061 --> 00:47:29.803
I hear the same patterns
as if I'm talking to somebody

1110
00:47:29.847 --> 00:47:31.805
with any other
substance abuse disorder.

1111
00:47:31.849 --> 00:47:33.459
For the average person,

1112
00:47:33.502 --> 00:47:36.897
that reward is enough
to keep you going,
keep you going.

1113
00:47:36.941 --> 00:47:39.552
And I can tell you personally,
when I get off carbohydrates,

1114
00:47:39.595 --> 00:47:42.163
I've known this for years,
you have a withdrawal.

1115
00:47:42.207 --> 00:47:44.252
I get all the same symptoms,

1116
00:47:44.296 --> 00:47:46.646
milder, mind you again.
So, I don't like

1117
00:47:46.689 --> 00:47:48.213
too powerful a connection
with addiction per se.

1118
00:47:48.256 --> 00:47:50.041
It minimizes the misery
of my patients.

1119
00:47:50.084 --> 00:47:52.565
But when I come
off carbohydrates,

1120
00:47:52.608 --> 00:47:55.481
get irritable, discontent,
I have pain,

1121
00:47:55.524 --> 00:47:57.178
I have sleeplessness,
I have anxiety.

1122
00:47:57.222 --> 00:47:58.832
Opiate withdrawal,

1123
00:47:58.876 --> 00:48:00.747
I have full on
opiate withdrawal
for three days every time.

1124
00:48:00.790 --> 00:48:04.620
That's what we're
trying to protect
against on a keto diet,

1125
00:48:04.664 --> 00:48:07.536
to try to stop that
raise of blood sugar

1126
00:48:07.580 --> 00:48:09.799
to prevent diabetes
or treat it

1127
00:48:09.843 --> 00:48:12.150
and to prevent
the insulin rise,

1128
00:48:12.193 --> 00:48:15.240
which is the hormonal state
of creating obesity.

1129
00:48:15.283 --> 00:48:18.417
We'll go
into depth about the
ketogenic diet momentarily.

1130
00:48:18.460 --> 00:48:20.419
But we first
have to understand

1131
00:48:20.462 --> 00:48:23.639
that most of our problems
stems from what industry
is doing.

1132
00:48:23.683 --> 00:48:25.859
And as I said inFat,
part one,

1133
00:48:25.903 --> 00:48:27.600
industry is a machine.

1134
00:48:27.643 --> 00:48:28.949
It's not a person.

1135
00:48:28.993 --> 00:48:31.212
It's a thing that's
designed to make money.

1136
00:48:31.256 --> 00:48:34.781
And that's it.
It's not good or bad,
it just is.

1137
00:48:34.824 --> 00:48:37.175
It's tough if you're
the sugar industry.

1138
00:48:37.218 --> 00:48:39.264
But the beverage industry
was always happy

1139
00:48:39.307 --> 00:48:41.179
to sell artificially
sweetened beverages

1140
00:48:41.222 --> 00:48:43.877
because artificial sweeteners
were cheaper than sugar
if nothing else.

1141
00:48:43.921 --> 00:48:47.185
They didn't care what
people drank as long as
they drank their products.

1142
00:48:47.228 --> 00:48:51.580
Grain industry, they could
create grain that's got
a lower glycemic index.

1143
00:48:51.624 --> 00:48:53.713
You have a lesson of

1144
00:48:53.756 --> 00:48:57.543
the 1980s when we told people
to create low fat foods,

1145
00:48:57.586 --> 00:48:59.110
they were happy to do it.

1146
00:49:00.285 --> 00:49:02.417
And they changed
the way we eat.

1147
00:49:02.461 --> 00:49:04.942
The problem is they
changed the way
we eat for the worse.

1148
00:49:04.985 --> 00:49:07.988
I think the tide is starting
to shift somewhat.

1149
00:49:08.032 --> 00:49:10.034
People now realize that

1150
00:49:10.077 --> 00:49:11.949
added sugars are not good.

1151
00:49:11.992 --> 00:49:13.863
I mean, there was a point,
it sounds ridiculous to say,

1152
00:49:13.907 --> 00:49:15.648
but there was a point where
people didn't quite realize

1153
00:49:15.691 --> 00:49:17.519
added sugars
were unhealthy for you.

1154
00:49:17.563 --> 00:49:20.305
Eating sugar
is not essential whatsoever.

1155
00:49:20.348 --> 00:49:25.440
And in fact, our body
will make sugar at a certain
point from eating protein.

1156
00:49:25.484 --> 00:49:26.702
The institute of medicine

1157
00:49:26.746 --> 00:49:27.834
itself acknowledges that

1158
00:49:27.877 --> 00:49:29.705
there is no essential need

1159
00:49:29.749 --> 00:49:31.881
for any carbohydrate.

1160
00:49:31.925 --> 00:49:34.493
The body needs a certain
amount of glucose

1161
00:49:34.536 --> 00:49:37.104
for the functioning of
its brain and its eyes.

1162
00:49:37.148 --> 00:49:39.628
But your body is
able to make that

1163
00:49:39.672 --> 00:49:42.457
glucose through a process
called gluconeogenesis

1164
00:49:42.501 --> 00:49:44.155
from the protein
that you consume.

1165
00:49:44.198 --> 00:49:47.114
Gluconeogenesis
is the process

1166
00:49:47.158 --> 00:49:52.772
by which your body will take
excess protein and convert it
into glucose.

1167
00:49:52.815 --> 00:49:54.513
Many people wonder

1168
00:49:54.556 --> 00:49:57.385
if there's a need for
carbohydrate in
the diet at all.

1169
00:49:57.429 --> 00:50:00.171
In other words, is there
an essential carbohydrate,

1170
00:50:00.214 --> 00:50:02.042
meaning the body
can't make it,

1171
00:50:02.086 --> 00:50:03.696
so you have to eat it.

1172
00:50:03.739 --> 00:50:07.178
That is in debate.
It's not clear.

1173
00:50:07.221 --> 00:50:11.138
One of the most
unbiased sources
of nutritional information,

1174
00:50:11.182 --> 00:50:14.228
the Institute of Medicine,
actually says pretty clearly,

1175
00:50:14.272 --> 00:50:16.926
"There is no
essential carbohydrate.

1176
00:50:16.970 --> 00:50:20.234
"You don't have
to eat carbohydrate."

1177
00:50:20.278 --> 00:50:23.237
Based on that, I wrote
a letter to the editor
some years ago

1178
00:50:23.281 --> 00:50:26.458
just questioning whether
carbohydrate was essential.

1179
00:50:26.501 --> 00:50:30.505
It's interesting that,
that letter has been cited
many, many times.

1180
00:50:30.549 --> 00:50:32.290
It was just a letter
to the editor.

1181
00:50:32.333 --> 00:50:34.553
Um, the science,

1182
00:50:34.596 --> 00:50:37.904
in regard to how you create
an essential nutrient

1183
00:50:37.947 --> 00:50:40.428
and what you
call a macronutrient.

1184
00:50:40.472 --> 00:50:42.126
So, when you're
on a keto diet,

1185
00:50:42.169 --> 00:50:45.520
your macronutrients
are proteins and fats.

1186
00:50:45.564 --> 00:50:47.696
The idea that
sugar had any benefit

1187
00:50:47.740 --> 00:50:52.005
actually stems from fallacies
propagated in the 1970s.

1188
00:50:52.049 --> 00:50:54.529
Ads in magazines
saying things like,

1189
00:50:54.573 --> 00:50:57.924
"Sugar can be the will power
you need to under eat."

1190
00:50:57.967 --> 00:51:02.276
There's a famous headline
for an FDA study that
hilariously reads,

1191
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:05.062
"Government gives sugar
a clean bill of health."

1192
00:51:05.105 --> 00:51:07.847
That clean bill of health
was that the amount of sugar

1193
00:51:07.890 --> 00:51:11.285
that the FDA was estimating
we were consuming at the time,

1194
00:51:11.329 --> 00:51:16.377
which they said was 40 pounds
per capita, per year,

1195
00:51:16.421 --> 00:51:18.597
which was probably, uh,

1196
00:51:20.033 --> 00:51:23.080
40 to 60 pounds less
than we were consuming.

1197
00:51:23.123 --> 00:51:25.343
And then they said
we don't know what would happen

1198
00:51:25.386 --> 00:51:28.868
if we were to actually
consume more than
40 pounds per capita.

1199
00:51:28.911 --> 00:51:31.610
Virtually, the year that
they made that claim,

1200
00:51:31.653 --> 00:51:34.395
sugar consumption
then starts to skyrocket.

1201
00:51:34.439 --> 00:51:36.528
The reliable data you have
is on what's called

1202
00:51:36.571 --> 00:51:37.703
food availability.

1203
00:51:37.746 --> 00:51:39.313
How much sugar is
being made available

1204
00:51:39.357 --> 00:51:40.445
to the American public

1205
00:51:40.488 --> 00:51:44.536
by the industry and by imports.

1206
00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:48.496
And that number around
1800 was four pounds.

1207
00:51:48.540 --> 00:51:53.719
By 1984,
when the FDA said it was 40,

1208
00:51:53.762 --> 00:51:59.420
the food availability numbers
were already about
120 pounds per capita.

1209
00:51:59.464 --> 00:52:03.468
And they estimated
that we were consuming
about a third of that.

1210
00:52:03.511 --> 00:52:05.774
They're taking
what they know,

1211
00:52:05.818 --> 00:52:08.255
which is how much
is made available.

1212
00:52:08.299 --> 00:52:11.563
It's a reliable number
you could use to
compute trends from.

1213
00:52:11.606 --> 00:52:14.653
And then they're creating
this estimate of how much
we actually consume.

1214
00:52:14.696 --> 00:52:17.221
And then say, "Well,
40 pounds doesn't
sound like a lot."

1215
00:52:17.264 --> 00:52:18.787
But it's kind of
a meaningless number

1216
00:52:18.831 --> 00:52:20.441
because you have nothing
to compare it to.

1217
00:52:20.485 --> 00:52:24.750
It's certainly
ten to 20 times larger

1218
00:52:24.793 --> 00:52:28.188
than what we were consuming
150 years earlier.

1219
00:52:28.232 --> 00:52:30.538
They started doing this
in the 1940s

1220
00:52:30.582 --> 00:52:33.150
during World War II 'cause
we had to know how much food

1221
00:52:33.193 --> 00:52:35.630
was available
and what we could expect

1222
00:52:35.674 --> 00:52:38.720
to deal with food rationing
during the war.

1223
00:52:38.764 --> 00:52:41.854
And they kept it up
religiously since the 1940s.

1224
00:52:41.897 --> 00:52:45.249
And they backdated it to 1907

1225
00:52:45.292 --> 00:52:46.902
to get a feel for
what had happened

1226
00:52:46.946 --> 00:52:51.255
in the previous war
and World War I
to get this history.

1227
00:52:51.298 --> 00:52:54.954
And so if you accept
the backdated data from 1907,

1228
00:52:54.997 --> 00:53:00.699
it looks as though
we used to be eating
a lot less meat then.

1229
00:53:00.742 --> 00:53:03.310
And then we added
meat to our diets.

1230
00:53:03.354 --> 00:53:04.920
We added animal products,

1231
00:53:04.964 --> 00:53:08.402
and it went along
with this epidemic
of heart disease

1232
00:53:08.446 --> 00:53:13.102
that appeared to emerge
after the 1920s.

1233
00:53:13.146 --> 00:53:16.932
And the arguments
I make in my book
is both the USDA data

1234
00:53:16.976 --> 00:53:18.586
is faulty, and perhaps

1235
00:53:18.630 --> 00:53:21.981
what you have is
a correlation again
between two things.

1236
00:53:22.024 --> 00:53:24.766
Change in diet over time

1237
00:53:24.810 --> 00:53:28.683
and change in health status.

1238
00:53:28.727 --> 00:53:32.470
And it doesn't tell you that
there's any causality
between the two.

1239
00:53:32.513 --> 00:53:33.906
It just tells you
they're correlated.

1240
00:53:33.949 --> 00:53:35.603
Now you can
generate a hypothesis

1241
00:53:35.647 --> 00:53:38.215
and say we think
meat consumption

1242
00:53:38.258 --> 00:53:39.520
causes heart disease.

1243
00:53:39.564 --> 00:53:41.087
And then you can
do an experiment,

1244
00:53:41.130 --> 00:53:43.002
which is called a randomized
controlled trial

1245
00:53:43.045 --> 00:53:44.438
to test that hypothesis.

1246
00:53:44.482 --> 00:53:47.049
And that experiment
has never been done.

1247
00:53:47.093 --> 00:53:50.923
As we discussed
in the last film, money
has a lot to do with this.

1248
00:53:50.966 --> 00:53:53.055
When you don't spend
the money on the studies,

1249
00:53:53.099 --> 00:53:56.581
it's easy to say,
"There's no study
that says keto works."

1250
00:53:56.624 --> 00:53:59.453
These studies are
extremely expensive,

1251
00:53:59.497 --> 00:54:01.760
and there have been
enough good studies done

1252
00:54:01.803 --> 00:54:04.197
to support our
moderate approach,

1253
00:54:04.241 --> 00:54:06.765
which is looking
at balanced foods,

1254
00:54:06.808 --> 00:54:10.812
vegetables, fruits, grains
and lean meat
and dairy products.

1255
00:54:10.856 --> 00:54:13.032
How do you
know it doesn't work

1256
00:54:13.075 --> 00:54:15.643
if there's never been
any large scale studies?

1257
00:54:15.687 --> 00:54:18.603
Back before I wrote my book
Fitness Confidential,

1258
00:54:18.646 --> 00:54:22.302
I only had my clients
in LA who I worked with.

1259
00:54:22.346 --> 00:54:26.654
After the book came out,
and then the podcast
got popular,

1260
00:54:26.698 --> 00:54:30.136
now it wasn't just
20 or 30 students.

1261
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:32.921
It was first hundreds,

1262
00:54:32.965 --> 00:54:35.489
and then thousands and then
tens of thousands.

1263
00:54:35.533 --> 00:54:37.535
So once you have

1264
00:54:37.578 --> 00:54:40.364
that many people
doing N=1,

1265
00:54:40.407 --> 00:54:44.455
and it's working, well,
it's not an N1
experiment anymore.

1266
00:54:44.498 --> 00:54:48.067
It's actually been
known for a long time
that the root cause

1267
00:54:48.110 --> 00:54:53.899
is eating too much,
and specifically,
carbohydrates.

1268
00:54:53.942 --> 00:54:57.032
So, um, 150 years ago,

1269
00:54:57.076 --> 00:54:59.731
the first treatment for obesity

1270
00:54:59.774 --> 00:55:02.516
was actually a low carb
ketogenic diet.

1271
00:55:02.560 --> 00:55:04.866
It was written about
in England,

1272
00:55:04.910 --> 00:55:07.869
and I find myself, um,

1273
00:55:07.913 --> 00:55:10.829
in a curious situation
where I'm just
reminding people

1274
00:55:10.872 --> 00:55:14.223
of something that
we've known
for 150 years.

1275
00:55:14.267 --> 00:55:19.968
That one, you know,
solution for the obesity
and diabetes epidemic

1276
00:55:20.012 --> 00:55:22.362
is a low carb,
ketogenic diet.

1277
00:55:22.406 --> 00:55:24.321
If you go back
to the 1970s,

1278
00:55:24.364 --> 00:55:26.540
Dr. Atkins
was considered a kook!

1279
00:55:26.584 --> 00:55:28.847
I remember the big
joke back then was,

1280
00:55:28.890 --> 00:55:31.110
"Do Atkins.
You'll lose weight,

1281
00:55:31.153 --> 00:55:33.547
"and then you'll be
a really good looking corpse

1282
00:55:33.591 --> 00:55:35.288
"because you're gonna
die from this diet."

1283
00:55:35.332 --> 00:55:37.290
Telling people that,
you know, beef is good

1284
00:55:37.334 --> 00:55:38.987
and so on is, you know,

1285
00:55:39.031 --> 00:55:40.685
or that butter is good or,

1286
00:55:40.728 --> 00:55:42.774
you know, telling people
what they want to hear

1287
00:55:42.817 --> 00:55:44.776
is a good way to sell books.
It's a good way to,

1288
00:55:44.819 --> 00:55:47.344
you know, magazines
are hurting for business
now on the Internet.

1289
00:55:47.387 --> 00:55:49.650
Everyone's looking for
something controversial

1290
00:55:49.694 --> 00:55:52.610
that they can tell people
what they want to hear,
and I understand that.

1291
00:55:52.653 --> 00:55:54.699
But it does people
a tremendous disservice.

1292
00:55:54.742 --> 00:55:59.443
The low carbohydrate
keto community is
based on science,

1293
00:55:59.486 --> 00:56:03.316
and I understand that
there are lots of ways
to be healthy.

1294
00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:06.406
You don't have to do
a low carbohydrate
ketogenic diet

1295
00:56:06.450 --> 00:56:09.366
if you don't have
carbohydrate tolerance.

1296
00:56:09.409 --> 00:56:11.542
Or if you don't have
insulin resistance,

1297
00:56:11.585 --> 00:56:13.326
you can eat lots
of different things.

1298
00:56:13.370 --> 00:56:16.285
And it's this insulin
resistance that can
drive so many

1299
00:56:16.329 --> 00:56:19.941
downstream markers
of inflammation

1300
00:56:19.985 --> 00:56:23.205
and glycation and other

1301
00:56:23.249 --> 00:56:25.425
detrimental processes
in our body

1302
00:56:25.469 --> 00:56:27.471
that can then lead
to heart disease.

1303
00:56:27.514 --> 00:56:30.648
So whether obesity
itself causes heart disease

1304
00:56:30.691 --> 00:56:34.913
or whether it's this
constellation of
health problems

1305
00:56:34.956 --> 00:56:38.873
that occur in people
who are obese,
that seems more likely.

1306
00:56:38.917 --> 00:56:42.137
People will say
to me emphatically,
"Well, keto is bad,"

1307
00:56:42.181 --> 00:56:44.226
and I'll ask them why,
and there's no answer.

1308
00:56:44.270 --> 00:56:47.273
They'll just go, "It's bad.
My doctor said it was bad."

1309
00:56:47.316 --> 00:56:51.756
And it throws your body
into a state of emergency.
That's what ketosis is.

1310
00:56:51.799 --> 00:56:53.584
As we said
in the first movie,

1311
00:56:53.627 --> 00:56:58.153
ketosis and ketoacidosis
are two completely
different things.

1312
00:56:58.197 --> 00:57:01.635
Nutritional ketosis is
quite a different scenario.

1313
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:04.421
Blood sugar's
absolutely under control.

1314
00:57:04.464 --> 00:57:06.553
The patient is healthy
in every single way.

1315
00:57:06.597 --> 00:57:10.818
Electrolytes, insulin, glucose.Perfectly, perfectly controlled.

1316
00:57:10.862 --> 00:57:12.385
We have now trained the body

1317
00:57:12.429 --> 00:57:15.083
to switch over from
burning carbohydrate

1318
00:57:15.127 --> 00:57:16.520
as the primary fuel.

1319
00:57:16.563 --> 00:57:19.436
Now the individual
becomes fat adapted,

1320
00:57:19.479 --> 00:57:21.307
and that's really
the difference between

1321
00:57:21.350 --> 00:57:24.092
a very unhealthy and
a very healthy state.

1322
00:57:24.136 --> 00:57:27.313
If we're going
to even pretend
we're on the same page,

1323
00:57:27.356 --> 00:57:29.489
we need to know
that basic fact.

1324
00:57:29.533 --> 00:57:32.666
A lot of the times
when even medical
professionals especially,

1325
00:57:32.710 --> 00:57:36.409
TV nutritionists describe
in essence what ketosis is,

1326
00:57:36.453 --> 00:57:38.498
they always point out
completely harmless

1327
00:57:38.542 --> 00:57:41.370
and sometimes
unproven things
to get you to not do it.

1328
00:57:41.414 --> 00:57:43.111
There are some
really interesting

1329
00:57:43.155 --> 00:57:44.548
side effects that
come with it.

1330
00:57:44.591 --> 00:57:47.594
Your autophagy process
is totally out of whack.

1331
00:57:47.638 --> 00:57:48.943
Disaster pants.

1332
00:57:48.987 --> 00:57:51.250
Zero calorie restriction
on a ketogenic diet.

1333
00:57:51.293 --> 00:57:52.599
Keto crotch.

1334
00:57:52.643 --> 00:57:53.905
If you have a sandwich
or something right now,

1335
00:57:53.948 --> 00:57:55.515
you might just want to go
ahead and put that down.

1336
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:57.386
Animal fats
and animal proteins.

1337
00:57:57.430 --> 00:58:01.608
Unless you have epilepsy,
I'm not seeing a whole lot
of upside to this.

1338
00:58:01.652 --> 00:58:04.219
They're just...
They're desperate.
They're just desperate.

1339
00:58:04.263 --> 00:58:05.960
Bacterial vaginosis.

1340
00:58:06.004 --> 00:58:07.832
Rich in saturated fats.

1341
00:58:07.875 --> 00:58:11.575
Um, so, actually have not
done keto myself,
as you might guess, but...

1342
00:58:11.618 --> 00:58:13.968
The keto diet is

1343
00:58:14.012 --> 00:58:16.536
the sort of latest thing

1344
00:58:16.580 --> 00:58:19.539
which is already promoting
pushback from the community.

1345
00:58:19.583 --> 00:58:21.585
Like they're trying to tell
people don't even try it

1346
00:58:21.628 --> 00:58:24.675
because it's gonna give you
bad breath or constipation.

1347
00:58:24.718 --> 00:58:27.852
And therefore, you know,
if you weigh 300 pounds,

1348
00:58:27.895 --> 00:58:30.724
you should just continue
weighing 300 pounds.

1349
00:58:30.768 --> 00:58:34.554
Because if you lost 100, but

1350
00:58:34.598 --> 00:58:37.601
your breath smelled
like ketones,
that would be a tragedy.

1351
00:58:37.644 --> 00:58:40.865
Get all the benefit over here.
None of the negatives
over here,

1352
00:58:40.908 --> 00:58:42.736
and all the benefits
over there.

1353
00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:46.087
For a ketogenic diet is
a particularly, um,

1354
00:58:46.131 --> 00:58:49.221
I want to use the word
magical diet for many

1355
00:58:49.264 --> 00:58:50.744
neurological conditions.

1356
00:58:50.788 --> 00:58:54.705
Many brain and, uh,
body nervous
system conditions.

1357
00:58:56.707 --> 00:58:58.143
When you eat
a ketogenic diet,

1358
00:58:58.186 --> 00:59:01.538
you're using fat
primarily for energy,

1359
00:59:01.581 --> 00:59:04.671
and the brain is using,
uh, to a large extent,

1360
00:59:04.715 --> 00:59:06.717
ketones instead of glucose.

1361
00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:08.501
It can't use 100% ketones,

1362
00:59:08.545 --> 00:59:12.940
but about two-thirds
of its energy
can come from ketones

1363
00:59:12.984 --> 00:59:17.162
if you're eating a fat based
diet as opposed to
a carbohydrate based diet.

1364
00:59:17.205 --> 00:59:22.602
So we're not entirely
sure why this diet is so
healthy for the brain

1365
00:59:22.646 --> 00:59:24.299
and has been able to,

1366
00:59:24.343 --> 00:59:27.781
you know, help people
with early Alzheimer's disease

1367
00:59:27.825 --> 00:59:29.870
and Parkinson's disease
and seizure disorders,

1368
00:59:31.350 --> 00:59:33.526
but it stands to reason that

1369
00:59:33.570 --> 00:59:38.444
if these diets, which have
been used to treat epilepsy
now for almost 100 years,

1370
00:59:38.487 --> 00:59:40.359
perhaps longer,

1371
00:59:40.402 --> 00:59:44.232
if these diets can
be helpful in calming
brain chemistry in that way,

1372
00:59:44.276 --> 00:59:47.018
uh, perhaps they could be
helpful for other brain
disorders as well,

1373
00:59:47.061 --> 00:59:48.585
including
psychiatric disorders,

1374
00:59:48.628 --> 00:59:51.675
which have a lot in common
with neurological disorders...

1375
00:59:51.718 --> 00:59:54.808
Psychiatric disorders are
neurological disorders.

1376
00:59:54.852 --> 00:59:57.419
It's simply that
they manifest, um,

1377
00:59:57.463 --> 01:00:00.118
as changes in behavior
and emotion

1378
01:00:00.161 --> 01:00:02.990
as opposed to changes
in the sensory motor system

1379
01:00:03.034 --> 01:00:07.125
with the muscular system,
for example.

1380
01:00:07.168 --> 01:00:08.996
So the ketogenic diet,

1381
01:00:09.040 --> 01:00:10.650
with the way we think
it works is that

1382
01:00:10.694 --> 01:00:13.522
ketones burn cleanly
and more efficiently

1383
01:00:13.566 --> 01:00:16.700
than glucose does in the brain,

1384
01:00:16.743 --> 01:00:20.268
so you create
less oxidation,
less inflammation.

1385
01:00:20.312 --> 01:00:23.663
So I tell my patients
to think of refined
carbohydrates,

1386
01:00:23.707 --> 01:00:27.667
in particular, sugar, flour,
fruit juice, cereals

1387
01:00:27.711 --> 01:00:29.234
as mood destabilizers.

1388
01:00:30.670 --> 01:00:32.846
I think that there's a lot
of potential benefit here.

1389
01:00:32.890 --> 01:00:36.154
The science
is very, very new

1390
01:00:36.197 --> 01:00:39.679
when it comes
to psychiatric disorders
and ketogenic diets.

1391
01:00:39.723 --> 01:00:43.117
But it's emerging,
and it's all pointing
in the same direction.

1392
01:00:43.161 --> 01:00:45.119
It's very, very promising.

1393
01:00:45.163 --> 01:00:48.645
If we get this message out,
I think that there are
many doctors out there

1394
01:00:48.688 --> 01:00:50.690
who really want
to understand this

1395
01:00:50.734 --> 01:00:52.431
and would be open minded

1396
01:00:52.474 --> 01:00:54.825
and would be curious
to incorporate some
of these principles

1397
01:00:54.868 --> 01:00:56.522
into their practice
because we have

1398
01:00:56.565 --> 01:01:00.047
so many patients who
do not respond to medication

1399
01:01:00.091 --> 01:01:02.049
or who get side effects
from medication

1400
01:01:02.093 --> 01:01:06.706
or who don't want to take
medication or can't
afford medication.

1401
01:01:06.750 --> 01:01:08.490
And so isn't it wonderful

1402
01:01:08.534 --> 01:01:10.754
if we have something else
to offer those people?

1403
01:01:10.797 --> 01:01:13.713
When I got
into this field
in the early 2000s,

1404
01:01:13.757 --> 01:01:16.194
the sort of medical orthodoxy,

1405
01:01:16.237 --> 01:01:18.239
the dominant hypothesis

1406
01:01:18.283 --> 01:01:20.154
in the nutrition establishment

1407
01:01:20.198 --> 01:01:25.725
was that fat, saturated
fat, uh, cholesterol,
are terrible for health.

1408
01:01:25.769 --> 01:01:29.250
And if you believe otherwise
or if you wrote otherwise,

1409
01:01:29.294 --> 01:01:31.296
you would really
suffer as a scientist.

1410
01:01:31.339 --> 01:01:34.952
If you said
anything against that
orthodoxy in the field.

1411
01:01:34.995 --> 01:01:38.999
So here I come along, saying,
"Oh, you know, but this paper,

1412
01:01:39.043 --> 01:01:41.175
"the conclusions
don't reflect the data.

1413
01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:42.524
"Can you explain
that to me?"

1414
01:01:42.568 --> 01:01:44.483
Or, "This doesn't
seem to add up."

1415
01:01:44.526 --> 01:01:47.791
And people were terrified
to go on the record

1416
01:01:47.834 --> 01:01:51.229
saying anything against
this dominant hypothesis.

1417
01:01:51.272 --> 01:01:53.797
Because the cost to them...
There are real costs

1418
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:57.757
to a scientist in challenging
that orthodoxy.

1419
01:01:57.801 --> 01:02:00.542
People who couldn't get
their papers published,

1420
01:02:00.586 --> 01:02:04.546
uh, because they had
said something that was
challenging to this orthodoxy.

1421
01:02:04.590 --> 01:02:06.853
They were disinvited
from expert conferences,

1422
01:02:06.897 --> 01:02:09.943
they could not get research
grants or their research
grants were canceled.

1423
01:02:09.987 --> 01:02:13.686
Scientists learn
to self-censor because

1424
01:02:13.730 --> 01:02:15.340
what they want to do
is they want to do science.

1425
01:02:15.383 --> 01:02:18.038
That's their job.
And if they
can't get money,

1426
01:02:18.082 --> 01:02:19.953
and if they can't
publish their papers

1427
01:02:19.997 --> 01:02:24.349
because they're talking out
in ways that their seniors
disapprove of,

1428
01:02:24.392 --> 01:02:26.655
then they can't
do their science.

1429
01:02:26.699 --> 01:02:29.397
So they really did not
want to talk about this issue

1430
01:02:29.441 --> 01:02:31.399
that was so deeply
risky to them.

1431
01:02:31.443 --> 01:02:34.881
But I've been told that
in order to get NIH funding,

1432
01:02:34.925 --> 01:02:36.970
they actually look
at how many times

1433
01:02:37.014 --> 01:02:39.320
your name appears
in the news media.

1434
01:02:39.364 --> 01:02:42.584
So there's this incentive
to make your studies

1435
01:02:42.628 --> 01:02:46.240
into this kind of click bait,
which is completely
irresponsible.

1436
01:02:46.284 --> 01:02:49.374
You know,
consumers don't know.
They're completely confused.

1437
01:02:49.417 --> 01:02:53.421
One of the clever kind
of rhetorical things that
Harvard and others, uh,

1438
01:02:53.465 --> 01:02:56.816
somebody like David Katz
at Yale do is they always
say like,

1439
01:02:56.860 --> 01:02:59.514
"You poor consumers,
you're so confused.

1440
01:02:59.558 --> 01:03:01.952
"And all these
Internet crazies out there,

1441
01:03:01.995 --> 01:03:04.781
"and book authors are
making you confused."

1442
01:03:04.824 --> 01:03:07.044
We are here,
assembled in Stockholm,

1443
01:03:07.087 --> 01:03:08.306
and all seem to agree

1444
01:03:08.349 --> 01:03:09.916
that we need a more
plant based diet

1445
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:11.962
and they're talking
about how to achieve it.

1446
01:03:12.005 --> 01:03:17.097
And yet the public is
fascinated by the currently
prevailing meme

1447
01:03:17.141 --> 01:03:20.535
that we should all eat
more meat,
butter and cheese.

1448
01:03:20.579 --> 01:03:22.668
We have lost
the faith of the public.

1449
01:03:22.711 --> 01:03:25.845
We are like firefighters
who bicker among ourselves

1450
01:03:25.889 --> 01:03:28.195
about who has
the right caliber hose.

1451
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:32.025
The mission is to get
there from here, and there
is a beautiful place,

1452
01:03:32.069 --> 01:03:34.636
the place we want
to bequeath to our children.

1453
01:03:34.680 --> 01:03:36.464
What is making people confused

1454
01:03:36.508 --> 01:03:40.164
is the publication of this
weak epidemiological data,

1455
01:03:40.207 --> 01:03:44.385
which almost 100%
of the time turns out
to be wrong.

1456
01:03:44.429 --> 01:03:48.041
I mean, what is the list
of things that epidemiology
has been wrong on?

1457
01:03:48.085 --> 01:03:50.087
Vitamin E supplements,
vitamin A supplements,

1458
01:03:50.130 --> 01:03:51.784
vitamin C supplements,

1459
01:03:51.828 --> 01:03:54.961
hormone replacement therapy
turned out to be killing women.

1460
01:03:55.005 --> 01:03:57.007
Uh, dietary cholesterol caps,

1461
01:03:57.050 --> 01:04:00.662
why we all ate egg white
omelets and avoided shellfish
for all that time.

1462
01:04:00.706 --> 01:04:02.795
That turned out to be
wrong and was retracted.

1463
01:04:02.839 --> 01:04:04.318
The low fat diet.

1464
01:04:04.362 --> 01:04:06.233
The government and
the American Heart Association

1465
01:04:06.277 --> 01:04:07.713
have backed off
the low fat diet.

1466
01:04:07.756 --> 01:04:09.236
Why were we eating
a low fat diet?

1467
01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:10.716
Because of epidemiology.

1468
01:04:10.759 --> 01:04:12.326
So the people confusing us

1469
01:04:12.370 --> 01:04:14.981
are the epidemiologists,
the experts themselves.

1470
01:04:15.025 --> 01:04:18.637
Most of the current
social media argument
is over extremes.

1471
01:04:18.680 --> 01:04:20.117
Go all vegan

1472
01:04:20.160 --> 01:04:21.640
or go all meat.

1473
01:04:21.683 --> 01:04:23.381
No one knows
who to trust,

1474
01:04:23.424 --> 01:04:26.384
and then both messages
get commercialized
and bastardized.

1475
01:04:26.427 --> 01:04:28.429
Now you're in fad diet land.

1476
01:04:28.473 --> 01:04:30.954
Now it's de facto quackery.

1477
01:04:30.997 --> 01:04:33.086
Because if it wasn't quackery,

1478
01:04:33.130 --> 01:04:36.655
why would you need this
cardiologist in New York,
this gynecologist in Brooklyn

1479
01:04:36.698 --> 01:04:40.528
writing about it instead
of it coming out of Harvard
or Cornell or Yale?

1480
01:04:41.878 --> 01:04:45.577
They've been fighting
this thing for 50 years,

1481
01:04:45.620 --> 01:04:48.319
and the longer you fight it,

1482
01:04:48.362 --> 01:04:50.495
again, now we're into
the cognitive dissonance,

1483
01:04:50.538 --> 01:04:52.671
the more you have to be right.

1484
01:04:52.714 --> 01:04:54.760
I have a lot of patients
who are confused,

1485
01:04:54.803 --> 01:04:58.503
or, at least tell me
about, uh, the vegan diet

1486
01:04:58.546 --> 01:05:01.114
and how, especially
among young women,

1487
01:05:01.158 --> 01:05:04.204
uh, my daughter included,
one of them,

1488
01:05:04.248 --> 01:05:07.164
um, it's very fashionable
to be a vegan,

1489
01:05:07.207 --> 01:05:11.342
and you feel like
you're doing the right
thing for animals,

1490
01:05:12.865 --> 01:05:14.823
but as a scientist,

1491
01:05:14.867 --> 01:05:17.217
I wanna promote
or recommend a diet

1492
01:05:17.261 --> 01:05:19.045
that's actually
healthy for humans,

1493
01:05:19.089 --> 01:05:20.917
not just for animals, right?

1494
01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:24.355
So I'm here to help
the person in front of me
in a clinic.

1495
01:05:24.398 --> 01:05:27.836
So I want the diet
to be as healthy
as possible,

1496
01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:30.187
and it's possible
with a vegan diet

1497
01:05:30.230 --> 01:05:32.972
to have, uh,
nutritional deficiencies.

1498
01:05:33.016 --> 01:05:35.279
Some of the nutrients
of concern in the vegan diet

1499
01:05:35.322 --> 01:05:40.240
include vitamin B12,
iron, calcium, vitamin D,

1500
01:05:40.284 --> 01:05:45.506
Omega-3 fatty acids,
including EPA and DHA,
and protein.

1501
01:05:45.550 --> 01:05:48.248
We found that
some of these nutrients,

1502
01:05:48.292 --> 01:05:51.251
which can have
implications in
neurologic disorders,

1503
01:05:51.295 --> 01:05:55.386
anemias, bone health
and other health concerns,

1504
01:05:55.429 --> 01:05:57.562
can be deficient
in vegan diets.

1505
01:05:57.605 --> 01:06:03.089
Low carb diets
for a vegetarian is possibly a successful approach.

1506
01:06:03.133 --> 01:06:06.223
We actually have
low carb vegetarians

1507
01:06:06.266 --> 01:06:08.486
who, um, perhaps can add

1508
01:06:08.529 --> 01:06:12.272
dairy or eggs or fish
and chicken to the diet.

1509
01:06:12.316 --> 01:06:14.535
And in this way, um,

1510
01:06:14.579 --> 01:06:16.102
they can lead a healthy life.

1511
01:06:16.146 --> 01:06:21.847
But I think it is fair to say
that, uh, we are omnivores

1512
01:06:21.890 --> 01:06:24.154
and animal based proteins

1513
01:06:24.197 --> 01:06:27.896
as well as plant based
proteins can be healthy for us.

1514
01:06:27.940 --> 01:06:29.768
You know, you can say
what the science says,

1515
01:06:29.811 --> 01:06:33.815
and then you can say what
people actually do
and actually stick with.

1516
01:06:33.859 --> 01:06:35.948
And you want a diet,
a nutritional program

1517
01:06:35.992 --> 01:06:39.082
that's gonna make
you feel good,
give you energy,

1518
01:06:39.125 --> 01:06:41.040
make it so you're not
hungry all the time,

1519
01:06:41.084 --> 01:06:42.955
so you don't have to think
about food all the time.

1520
01:06:42.999 --> 01:06:45.523
We get a lot of pushback
from the vegetarian community

1521
01:06:45.566 --> 01:06:49.048
where I think they,
I wish they would see
they were all arguing.

1522
01:06:49.092 --> 01:06:51.485
We all want people to be as
healthy as humanly possible,

1523
01:06:51.529 --> 01:06:54.401
and we want the ethical
decisions to be made on

1524
01:06:54.445 --> 01:06:55.924
the correct implications.

1525
01:06:55.968 --> 01:06:59.624
So if I'm going to risk
my health for the health of...

1526
01:06:59.667 --> 01:07:02.105
other species,
I want to know
that's what I'm doing.

1527
01:07:02.148 --> 01:07:06.413
I don't wanna
have the misconception
that I'm gonna be healthier

1528
01:07:06.457 --> 01:07:08.198
because that's what
I'm, you know...

1529
01:07:08.241 --> 01:07:12.028
Also that the ethical decision
is also the one
that's supported,

1530
01:07:12.071 --> 01:07:15.335
by, you know,
medical science.

1531
01:07:15.379 --> 01:07:17.816
All we do is talk and talk and talk about health

1532
01:07:17.859 --> 01:07:21.950
and at the same time,
we're just getting fatter
and more unhealthy.

1533
01:07:21.994 --> 01:07:26.216
If America is so worried
about its health,
how did we get so fat?

1534
01:07:26.259 --> 01:07:30.220
Because we have such
big problems with obesity,

1535
01:07:30.263 --> 01:07:32.004
Type 2 diabetes,
high blood pressure,

1536
01:07:32.048 --> 01:07:35.094
all kinds of diseases,
it's not surprising

1537
01:07:35.138 --> 01:07:36.574
that people
are more interested

1538
01:07:36.617 --> 01:07:39.881
in their health than ever
because they have to be.

1539
01:07:39.925 --> 01:07:42.014
You don't have to be
interested in your health

1540
01:07:42.058 --> 01:07:44.103
if everything's
all right, right?

1541
01:07:44.147 --> 01:07:48.499
It's only when you have
a problem that you need
to do something about it.

1542
01:07:48.542 --> 01:07:51.850
The myth is that, is that
the health care system

1543
01:07:51.893 --> 01:07:53.765
is the best place
to go to get healthy.

1544
01:07:53.808 --> 01:07:56.115
That's another
terrible myth

1545
01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:58.639
that so many people
are falling into that trap.

1546
01:07:58.683 --> 01:08:00.772
And, you know,
if you're acutely ill,

1547
01:08:00.815 --> 01:08:02.904
if you need a surgery,

1548
01:08:02.948 --> 01:08:05.124
if you have a bad infection,

1549
01:08:05.168 --> 01:08:07.039
the health care system
is fantastic.

1550
01:08:07.083 --> 01:08:10.738
But when it comes
to these chronic diseases
we're facing, unfortunately,

1551
01:08:10.782 --> 01:08:14.568
it is a myth that the health
care system is the best place
to address those.

1552
01:08:14.612 --> 01:08:17.484
There's a lot of information
today on the Internet.

1553
01:08:17.528 --> 01:08:20.096
It's a wonderful thing,
and it's a terrible thing.

1554
01:08:20.139 --> 01:08:23.577
There are people
who have their own
agendas to promote,

1555
01:08:23.621 --> 01:08:27.451
saying the darndest things,
and my patients watch those
and read them,

1556
01:08:27.494 --> 01:08:29.496
and I have to try
to correct them.

1557
01:08:29.540 --> 01:08:32.717
Based on the research,
we cannot say with
any certainty

1558
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:38.070
that eating red or processed
meat causes cancer, diabetes
or heart disease.

1559
01:08:38.114 --> 01:08:40.159
The study recommends
adults continue

1560
01:08:40.203 --> 01:08:42.857
current red and processed
meat consumption.

1561
01:08:42.901 --> 01:08:46.426
It's a finding that's
prompted calls
for a retraction.

1562
01:08:46.470 --> 01:08:49.864
The most prominent critic,
Harvard School
of Public Health,

1563
01:08:49.908 --> 01:08:53.999
which labeled that conclusion "irresponsible and unethical."

1564
01:08:54.042 --> 01:08:56.915
It's crazy because
the more that we learn
that meat is healthy

1565
01:08:56.958 --> 01:09:00.092
and people are getting healthy, with these hundreds
of thousands

1566
01:09:00.136 --> 01:09:01.963
of N1 experiments,

1567
01:09:02.007 --> 01:09:05.663
the more the chasm grows
between the meat eaters
and the vegans.

1568
01:09:05.706 --> 01:09:08.970
I was watching one vegan
propaganda film about
a year ago,

1569
01:09:09.014 --> 01:09:13.149
and they were claiming
that eating one egg
is equivalent

1570
01:09:13.192 --> 01:09:14.933
to smoking five
cigarettes a day.

1571
01:09:14.976 --> 01:09:16.369
One egg.

1572
01:09:16.413 --> 01:09:18.154
I never really
thought about eggs much.

1573
01:09:18.197 --> 01:09:20.504
I just thought of them
as a standard part
of a healthy diet.

1574
01:09:20.547 --> 01:09:23.159
But then I found a study
suggesting that eating

1575
01:09:23.202 --> 01:09:25.204
just one egg a day
can be as bad as smoking

1576
01:09:25.248 --> 01:09:28.425
five cigarettes per day
for life expectancy.

1577
01:09:28.468 --> 01:09:31.558
In that case,
I'm smoking a pack
every morning.

1578
01:09:31.602 --> 01:09:34.082
It makes absolutely no sense.

1579
01:09:34.126 --> 01:09:38.130
The problem is, is people are
gonna watch these movies
and believe this.

1580
01:09:38.174 --> 01:09:41.133
Researchers found
a stepwise increase in risk

1581
01:09:41.177 --> 01:09:43.657
the more and more eggs
people ate.

1582
01:09:43.701 --> 01:09:45.964
Even just a single egg a week

1583
01:09:46.007 --> 01:09:49.620
appeared to increase the odds
of diabetes by 76%.

1584
01:09:49.663 --> 01:09:52.927
The reality is that a food
that has just fat,

1585
01:09:52.971 --> 01:09:55.408
or an egg, for example,

1586
01:09:55.452 --> 01:09:57.715
doesn't raise
the blood sugar at all.

1587
01:09:57.758 --> 01:09:59.978
It has a glycemic
index of zero,

1588
01:10:00.021 --> 01:10:02.850
and so if a site is
claiming that

1589
01:10:02.894 --> 01:10:07.464
the egg has a glycemic effect,
it's just not true.

1590
01:10:07.507 --> 01:10:09.727
Uh, eggs don't cause diabetes,

1591
01:10:09.770 --> 01:10:13.644
not unless you're eating
carbohydrates and you
put it all into

1592
01:10:13.687 --> 01:10:15.428
one mix together.

1593
01:10:15.472 --> 01:10:18.214
But, uh, the interesting
thing when you look at

1594
01:10:18.257 --> 01:10:20.259
the glycemic index
of different foods

1595
01:10:20.303 --> 01:10:24.350
is that the foods that
have no carbohydrates
are not on that list.

1596
01:10:24.394 --> 01:10:29.312
So oils, butter, eggs
have a glycemic
index of zero.

1597
01:10:29.355 --> 01:10:31.096
There is a fear,

1598
01:10:31.139 --> 01:10:34.665
unfounded fear
of the cholesterol
going up,

1599
01:10:34.708 --> 01:10:37.972
eating more fat,
more eggs.

1600
01:10:38.016 --> 01:10:43.326
And we now know that
it is an increase in
good cholesterol as well,

1601
01:10:43.369 --> 01:10:46.720
and a reduction
of the bad cholesterol
called triglyceride

1602
01:10:46.764 --> 01:10:49.288
or bad fats in the blood,
for example.

1603
01:10:49.332 --> 01:10:53.249
So the extreme case
of some people being
told not to do this

1604
01:10:53.292 --> 01:10:57.165
even though there're clear
benefits, based on a worry

1605
01:10:57.209 --> 01:10:59.298
about a long term
effect of cholesterol

1606
01:10:59.342 --> 01:11:01.779
is just sadly wrong,

1607
01:11:01.822 --> 01:11:06.174
and through the lens
of today's understanding
of the science.

1608
01:11:06.218 --> 01:11:07.828
So you look at who
gets heart disease.

1609
01:11:07.872 --> 01:11:09.917
You look at how many
eggs you're eating
and lo and behold,

1610
01:11:09.961 --> 01:11:13.486
people who eat eggs get more
heart disease
than people who don't.

1611
01:11:13.530 --> 01:11:16.663
They're probably not
as health conscious
as people who don't eat eggs,

1612
01:11:16.707 --> 01:11:20.188
'cause for 50 years
we've been told
don't eat eggs.

1613
01:11:20.232 --> 01:11:24.062
So very health conscious
people in the '90s...

1614
01:11:24.105 --> 01:11:27.326
I probably boiled
10,000 eggs in the '90s,

1615
01:11:27.370 --> 01:11:30.198
and I probably threw out
10,000 yolks.

1616
01:11:30.242 --> 01:11:32.636
Okay? Because the yolks
have fat and cholesterol

1617
01:11:32.679 --> 01:11:35.073
and we were taught
they were killing people.

1618
01:11:35.116 --> 01:11:36.988
So you do these studies,
and lo and behold,

1619
01:11:37.031 --> 01:11:39.817
you find out that people
who eat eggs have a higher
rate of heart disease.

1620
01:11:39.860 --> 01:11:41.993
That's a correlation.
And then you pretend

1621
01:11:42.036 --> 01:11:45.779
correlation is causation,
because that's why you did
this study to begin with.

1622
01:11:45.823 --> 01:11:47.868
And then you make this claim,
and then you have this
whole world,

1623
01:11:47.912 --> 01:11:51.437
then the people
who want to believe
that's true,

1624
01:11:51.481 --> 01:11:53.918
embrace the claim
and act like it's true

1625
01:11:53.961 --> 01:11:55.789
because they had a single
published study

1626
01:11:55.833 --> 01:11:57.269
that said it's true.

1627
01:11:57.878 --> 01:11:59.706
I don't think

1628
01:11:59.750 --> 01:12:02.187
these people really care
that much about whether

1629
01:12:02.230 --> 01:12:04.015
it makes us healthier.

1630
01:12:04.058 --> 01:12:06.887
Maybe they do.
I think they care
about the animals,

1631
01:12:06.931 --> 01:12:08.454
and that's a wonderful cause.

1632
01:12:08.498 --> 01:12:11.501
But that's not what
I'm trying to do
at the moment.

1633
01:12:11.544 --> 01:12:14.242
The group
says that activism
isn't violence,

1634
01:12:14.286 --> 01:12:15.983
and that they have
a love-based approach.

1635
01:12:16.027 --> 01:12:17.898
Not everyone's like you
that don't care about animals.

1636
01:12:17.942 --> 01:12:19.117
I do care about animals.

1637
01:12:19.160 --> 01:12:20.423
-You care about animals?
-Yeah, absolutely.

1638
01:12:20.466 --> 01:12:21.598
But you condemn them
to a slaughterhouse

1639
01:12:21.641 --> 01:12:22.903
when you eat them.

1640
01:12:22.947 --> 01:12:24.775
But if somebody
gives up meat

1641
01:12:24.818 --> 01:12:28.779
and goes vegetarian
or vegan and gets healthy

1642
01:12:28.822 --> 01:12:31.259
and they can control
their weight and they control

1643
01:12:31.303 --> 01:12:33.653
their blood sugar,

1644
01:12:33.697 --> 01:12:36.700
you know, then geez,
that's the greatest
thing in the world

1645
01:12:36.743 --> 01:12:38.005
and I'm happy for 'em.

1646
01:12:38.049 --> 01:12:42.967
But if they can do it
by eating a, you know,

1647
01:12:43.010 --> 01:12:47.450
a low carb, high fat diet,
which clearly people can,

1648
01:12:47.493 --> 01:12:50.931
then I think we should be
happy for them
and support it.

1649
01:12:50.975 --> 01:12:53.586
A high fat diet
is not unhealthy on its own

1650
01:12:53.630 --> 01:12:57.068
and should not be avoided,
even if you're
a green-only vegan.

1651
01:12:57.111 --> 01:12:59.287
Unless, in fact,
you don't like the food.

1652
01:12:59.331 --> 01:13:02.421
The myth still persists
that fat is going to kill you

1653
01:13:02.465 --> 01:13:04.858
or at the very least,
make you fat.

1654
01:13:04.902 --> 01:13:06.512
It's what I call
the tragic homonym.

1655
01:13:08.122 --> 01:13:10.124
The fat in bacon
is not the same
as the fat on your hips.

1656
01:13:10.168 --> 01:13:12.866
It's different, and another
idea that is just

1657
01:13:12.910 --> 01:13:15.739
deeply ingrained in us
is this idea that you know,

1658
01:13:15.782 --> 01:13:18.263
all green things are good,
all vegetables are good.

1659
01:13:18.306 --> 01:13:19.917
And vegetables
are good.

1660
01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:22.267
But again,
it's not "either or".

1661
01:13:22.310 --> 01:13:24.487
What does a doctor
say about adding fat?

1662
01:13:24.530 --> 01:13:27.620
Well, it sure seems logical
that the fat in the food

1663
01:13:27.664 --> 01:13:30.101
would become the
fat on your body,

1664
01:13:30.144 --> 01:13:32.364
you know, on your
bottom, for example.

1665
01:13:32.408 --> 01:13:37.064
But it turns out that it's
the insulin hormone inside

1666
01:13:37.108 --> 01:13:41.591
that creates the situation
for you to be able
to deposit the fat

1667
01:13:41.634 --> 01:13:45.986
and insulin is actually
generated by eating
carbohydrates.

1668
01:13:46.030 --> 01:13:48.685
So it's actually the dietary
carbohydrates, the sugars

1669
01:13:48.728 --> 01:13:51.078
and the starches
that are fattening.

1670
01:13:51.122 --> 01:13:54.473
But the confusion
comes into play because

1671
01:13:54.517 --> 01:13:56.954
if you're eating
carbohydrates and fats,

1672
01:13:56.997 --> 01:13:59.086
then you will get fat.

1673
01:13:59.130 --> 01:14:01.654
But it's not the fat
that caused it.

1674
01:14:01.698 --> 01:14:04.788
It was the carbohydrates
that led to the insulin

1675
01:14:04.831 --> 01:14:06.703
that caused the fat
to be fattening.

1676
01:14:06.746 --> 01:14:11.359
So another part
of the confusion is that
low fat diets work.

1677
01:14:11.403 --> 01:14:14.145
And, the problem is that
they cause excessive hunger

1678
01:14:14.188 --> 01:14:15.581
for most people,

1679
01:14:15.625 --> 01:14:19.193
and so they don't practically
work for many people.

1680
01:14:19.237 --> 01:14:21.457
And we've seen that
to be true because

1681
01:14:21.500 --> 01:14:26.113
the US has been advocating
low fat diets
for the last 30 years,

1682
01:14:26.157 --> 01:14:29.595
and it hasn't worked
practically for most Americans.

1683
01:14:29.639 --> 01:14:34.078
It's not that it can't work.
It's just that it hasn't been
a practical solution.

1684
01:14:34.121 --> 01:14:35.949
I've always thought
that our government

1685
01:14:35.993 --> 01:14:38.212
should operate according
to the principle,

1686
01:14:38.256 --> 01:14:42.173
like medical doctors,
when they swear an oath
to their profession,

1687
01:14:42.216 --> 01:14:44.305
that they should
at least do no harm.

1688
01:14:44.349 --> 01:14:46.177
You know, when they started
off the dietary guidelines,

1689
01:14:46.220 --> 01:14:49.267
they didn't even
have to know what to tell
Americans what to eat.

1690
01:14:49.310 --> 01:14:51.443
They just simply said,
have seven to 11 servings

1691
01:14:51.487 --> 01:14:52.662
of bread every day.

1692
01:14:52.705 --> 01:14:54.141
That was what
they told people.

1693
01:14:54.185 --> 01:14:56.709
Then they actually went
and told the food industry,

1694
01:14:56.753 --> 01:15:00.365
"You must go out and create
thousands of more low fat,

1695
01:15:00.408 --> 01:15:03.890
"and therefore high carb
food products for us."

1696
01:15:03.934 --> 01:15:07.459
The defenders of the nutrition
establishment say,

1697
01:15:07.503 --> 01:15:10.897
"Oh, we could not have
anticipated that people
would eat more sugars."

1698
01:15:10.941 --> 01:15:14.988
"It's not our fault that
they all went out and scarfed
down SnackWell cookies."

1699
01:15:15.032 --> 01:15:18.557
Well, the government told
the industry to make
those foods.

1700
01:15:18.601 --> 01:15:21.299
New SnackWell's
reduced fat candy!

1701
01:15:21.342 --> 01:15:24.781
Yes, like luscious
chocolate caramel,
not clusters.

1702
01:15:24.824 --> 01:15:26.913
And the American
Heart Association
was also putting its,

1703
01:15:26.957 --> 01:15:30.438
you know, heart healthy
check mark on, you know,

1704
01:15:30.482 --> 01:15:33.616
Frosted Flakes and Cocoa Puffs and all these foods

1705
01:15:33.659 --> 01:15:35.922
that were super
high in sugar.

1706
01:15:35.966 --> 01:15:37.924
But because they
didn't have a lot of fat,

1707
01:15:37.968 --> 01:15:39.578
they were considered healthy.

1708
01:15:39.622 --> 01:15:41.972
The only measure of health was
that it didn't have fat in it.

1709
01:15:42.015 --> 01:15:43.843
What a creamy
way to cut the fat.

1710
01:15:43.887 --> 01:15:48.456
Is the pendulum swinging?
That is a big question.

1711
01:15:48.500 --> 01:15:53.853
I think clearly it is,
in that there is a bottom-up
revolution going on.

1712
01:15:53.897 --> 01:15:56.029
The people who end up
in an obesity medicine

1713
01:15:56.073 --> 01:15:57.553
clinic like mine

1714
01:15:57.596 --> 01:16:00.599
happen to be the ones
who have the bad metabolism,

1715
01:16:00.643 --> 01:16:05.691
where a very small amount
of sugar or starch or grains
can be detrimental.

1716
01:16:05.735 --> 01:16:07.432
And so that's why
we're very strict

1717
01:16:07.475 --> 01:16:10.653
about teaching people
how to stay away
from those foods.

1718
01:16:10.696 --> 01:16:13.003
Teaching people
to have great foods,

1719
01:16:13.046 --> 01:16:14.657
things that they thought
they couldn't have,

1720
01:16:14.700 --> 01:16:18.051
like bacon
and pate and brie

1721
01:16:18.095 --> 01:16:20.837
and, you know,
depending where you live,
there's just

1722
01:16:20.880 --> 01:16:23.970
a wide array of foods
that don't have carbohydrates,

1723
01:16:24.014 --> 01:16:26.320
that are very
tasty and healthy.

1724
01:16:26.364 --> 01:16:27.974
It takes motivation
to do a diet.

1725
01:16:28.018 --> 01:16:29.585
And I've not really
been very motivated

1726
01:16:29.628 --> 01:16:31.369
to make a dietary change
the last few years.

1727
01:16:31.412 --> 01:16:33.023
I don't know why.

1728
01:16:33.066 --> 01:16:34.807
I don't know,
my head wasn't in that space,

1729
01:16:34.851 --> 01:16:36.896
but this is one
of the important
psychologies about dieting.

1730
01:16:36.940 --> 01:16:39.246
You have to decide
to make a change,

1731
01:16:39.290 --> 01:16:41.335
and I was doing
a podcast about
health and fitness,

1732
01:16:41.379 --> 01:16:44.904
so I thought,
"Walk it like you talk it,
so I better do it."

1733
01:16:44.948 --> 01:16:47.820
But I remember
it was a moment.
It's like any major change.

1734
01:16:47.864 --> 01:16:49.866
There's a moment
where you go,
"Okay, I'm gonna do this."

1735
01:16:49.909 --> 01:16:52.651
A lifestyle that
you can stick with,

1736
01:16:52.695 --> 01:16:57.177
that is going to help you
control your hormones,
your insulin hormones,

1737
01:16:57.221 --> 01:16:58.918
your fat storage hormones,

1738
01:16:58.962 --> 01:17:02.139
that's gonna be the best way
to lose weight in the long run.

1739
01:17:02.182 --> 01:17:03.531
Because we don't care

1740
01:17:03.575 --> 01:17:05.664
if you're gonna lose
weight in two weeks,

1741
01:17:05.708 --> 01:17:08.362
four weeks, six weeks.
That's not where health is.

1742
01:17:08.406 --> 01:17:12.279
Where health is, is permanently
reversing any metabolic damage,

1743
01:17:12.323 --> 01:17:14.455
making you healthy
on the inside,

1744
01:17:14.499 --> 01:17:16.066
and then weight loss
will follow.

1745
01:17:16.109 --> 01:17:17.676
You have to be ready to do it,
just like stopping smoking,

1746
01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:18.895
anything else.

1747
01:17:18.938 --> 01:17:20.723
If you're ready to do it,
you have to do it.

1748
01:17:20.766 --> 01:17:23.943
The great thing about
this diet is it's painless.

1749
01:17:23.987 --> 01:17:25.858
The diet itself is painless.

1750
01:17:25.902 --> 01:17:28.992
And once you make the change,
you feel so good,
it's self-sustaining.

1751
01:17:29.035 --> 01:17:31.342
You want to stay with it,
you want to optimize it,

1752
01:17:31.385 --> 01:17:33.387
and you certainly don't
want to lose what you've got.

1753
01:17:33.431 --> 01:17:36.521
There is a Credit Suisse
report that came out
a little while ago

1754
01:17:36.564 --> 01:17:41.352
saying the market
is going to shift on fats.

1755
01:17:41.395 --> 01:17:44.921
So you know, telling business,
"Get ready for this.
It's gonna change."

1756
01:17:44.964 --> 01:17:47.140
You know, we see butter sales
going through the roof.

1757
01:17:47.184 --> 01:17:50.187
We see meat consumption
actually increasing.

1758
01:17:50.230 --> 01:17:53.103
There are, there's signs
in the market

1759
01:17:53.146 --> 01:17:55.322
that consumer driven
demand is changing.

1760
01:17:55.366 --> 01:17:57.716
So there seems to be
somewhat of a groundswell.

1761
01:17:57.760 --> 01:17:59.718
You walk into grocery
stores and things.

1762
01:17:59.762 --> 01:18:02.721
There's now paleo,
the way things
used to be vegan.

1763
01:18:02.765 --> 01:18:05.724
You walk into bookstores
and there's books on low carb

1764
01:18:05.768 --> 01:18:09.293
and the computer is just
full of all of this stuff.

1765
01:18:09.336 --> 01:18:13.689
Look, I get it. We live
in a society where everyone
wants everything fast.

1766
01:18:13.732 --> 01:18:16.648
Just tell me what to do. You want no sugars, no grains.

1767
01:18:16.692 --> 01:18:20.304
Eat bacon, eat beef,
eat an avocado.

1768
01:18:20.870 --> 01:18:22.567
That's NSNG.

1769
01:18:22.610 --> 01:18:24.569
NSNG, you have gray areas.

1770
01:18:24.612 --> 01:18:26.963
-I know you want
the whole 30 right?
-Yep.

1771
01:18:27.006 --> 01:18:29.443
-It's like either you're in,
or you're out.
-Yeah.

1772
01:18:29.487 --> 01:18:30.618
-Eh.
-Yeah.

1773
01:18:30.662 --> 01:18:32.577
NSNG, you could mess up
at noon time,

1774
01:18:32.620 --> 01:18:34.753
and you're right back
in that evening, you know?

1775
01:18:34.797 --> 01:18:36.189
And you just go with it.

1776
01:18:36.233 --> 01:18:38.496
As long as you're
cutting out sugars
and grains,

1777
01:18:39.149 --> 01:18:40.585
you're on point.

1778
01:18:40.628 --> 01:18:43.675
I've done well over
1700 podcasts at this point,

1779
01:18:43.719 --> 01:18:46.983
and I use one line in
each and every podcast.

1780
01:18:47.026 --> 01:18:49.420
Your good intentions
have been stolen.

1781
01:18:49.463 --> 01:18:51.552
I'm just here to try to help
you get them back.