1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX
2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
3
00:00:13,421 --> 00:00:16,965
[indistinct chatter]
4
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,468
[tense music]
5
00:00:19,544 --> 00:00:21,845
♪ ♪
6
00:00:21,856 --> 00:00:24,857
[indistinct radio chatter]
7
00:00:26,384 --> 00:00:27,851
- I was trying to find
something that worked
8
00:00:27,862 --> 00:00:29,862
That would make them
shut up to stop hollering--
9
00:00:29,938 --> 00:00:31,688
- Aggressive kind of
10
00:00:31,699 --> 00:00:33,866
Infliction of pain
on these women.
11
00:00:33,942 --> 00:00:35,701
- I was trying
to find something
12
00:00:35,778 --> 00:00:37,152
That would make them behave.
13
00:00:37,187 --> 00:00:39,488
- But it was painful to them.
- I hope so.
14
00:00:39,523 --> 00:00:40,688
I don't mean I hope so.
15
00:00:40,724 --> 00:00:42,824
But, I mean, yeah, that's what
I was trying to achieve,
16
00:00:42,901 --> 00:00:45,327
You know, to make them behave.
17
00:00:45,403 --> 00:00:50,999
♪ ♪
18
00:00:51,076 --> 00:00:52,876
- Charges were filed
in philadelphia today
19
00:00:52,887 --> 00:00:56,221
In a gruesome story of
captives, torture, and murder.
20
00:00:58,083 --> 00:00:59,841
- Heidnik's house of horrors
21
00:00:59,918 --> 00:01:04,012
Where he kept six women
in chains in his basement.
22
00:01:04,089 --> 00:01:06,973
- Heidnik is accused of luring
prostitutes to his house
23
00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:09,902
And then raping, torturing,
and murdering them.
24
00:01:09,978 --> 00:01:11,978
- And the mother
of one of the dead women
25
00:01:12,055 --> 00:01:15,190
Said she led police
to the house last December.
26
00:01:15,225 --> 00:01:16,358
- They didn't do nothing.
27
00:01:16,434 --> 00:01:18,193
The policemen
didn't do nothing.
28
00:01:18,228 --> 00:01:21,404
If they had did this, my
daughter would be alive today.
29
00:01:21,415 --> 00:01:23,990
- At first, I tried to
make it nice, right?
30
00:01:24,067 --> 00:01:25,867
- Yeah, how did you
do that, gary?
31
00:01:25,902 --> 00:01:28,370
- I was holding parties there,
for one thing.
32
00:01:28,446 --> 00:01:32,207
I had a christmas party
and a new year's party.
33
00:01:32,242 --> 00:01:34,876
- He was out to establish
34
00:01:34,911 --> 00:01:38,922
A throne of power, control,
and adoration
35
00:01:38,933 --> 00:01:42,050
And create this harem
of sexual slaves
36
00:01:42,085 --> 00:01:45,846
And have all these children.
37
00:01:45,922 --> 00:01:49,057
- Gary heidnik was religious.
38
00:01:49,134 --> 00:01:51,560
He was
a self-ordained minister
39
00:01:51,595 --> 00:01:52,894
And started a church,
40
00:01:52,971 --> 00:01:55,564
The united church
of the ministers of god.
41
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,732
♪ ♪
42
00:01:57,809 --> 00:02:00,026
- In his mind,
he was creating
43
00:02:00,103 --> 00:02:03,446
A church for all the other
misfits in the world,
44
00:02:03,457 --> 00:02:06,408
And he saw himself
as this benevolent leader.
45
00:02:06,443 --> 00:02:10,537
And it really was
just to play god.
46
00:02:10,614 --> 00:02:14,249
- He would actually have
church services
47
00:02:14,284 --> 00:02:16,468
On the first floor of his house
48
00:02:16,545 --> 00:02:19,379
While girls
were in his basement
49
00:02:19,456 --> 00:02:20,806
Chained together.
50
00:02:20,883 --> 00:02:22,808
♪ ♪
51
00:02:22,885 --> 00:02:24,810
- The captive women
had been imprisoned
52
00:02:24,887 --> 00:02:28,647
As long as four months and fed
dog food, bread, and water.
53
00:02:30,175 --> 00:02:31,600
- And in the kitchen,
54
00:02:31,676 --> 00:02:33,101
Police found body parts
of two people.
55
00:02:33,178 --> 00:02:35,770
They suspect cannibalism.
56
00:02:35,847 --> 00:02:38,323
Police say that they were led
to heidnik's house by a woman
57
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,443
Who told them that she had
escaped from the basement.
58
00:02:41,478 --> 00:02:48,417
♪ ♪
59
00:02:53,031 --> 00:02:55,457
- I think you just question
all the time, you know,
60
00:02:55,492 --> 00:02:58,460
"why was it me that ended up
here in this basement?"
61
00:02:58,536 --> 00:03:02,631
Like, "what did I do to deserve
to be tortured and raped,
62
00:03:02,707 --> 00:03:04,674
You know, for these days?"
63
00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:06,009
And I think, you know,
64
00:03:06,020 --> 00:03:08,011
God put me there
to save the other girls.
65
00:03:08,022 --> 00:03:10,013
Well, at least
that's what I believe,
66
00:03:10,024 --> 00:03:14,517
And I kind of accept that,
and that keeps me sane.
67
00:03:14,528 --> 00:03:16,478
- I remember she telling me,
68
00:03:16,554 --> 00:03:18,030
"be patient.
She would get us out."
69
00:03:18,106 --> 00:03:19,698
But she just didn't tell me
70
00:03:19,775 --> 00:03:21,524
When she was gonna
take me through.
71
00:03:21,535 --> 00:03:24,819
[sniffles]
72
00:03:24,854 --> 00:03:28,782
When we got out,
society made me feel that
73
00:03:28,858 --> 00:03:32,160
Whatever rivera did
was justifiable
74
00:03:32,195 --> 00:03:34,704
Because of the predicament
we was in.
75
00:03:34,715 --> 00:03:37,791
A lot of people don't know
what she actually did
76
00:03:37,867 --> 00:03:41,169
'cause she wasn't never
truthful about it.
77
00:03:41,204 --> 00:03:43,672
She should've just told
the truth from the beginning,
78
00:03:43,748 --> 00:03:45,715
And we wouldn't be here now.
79
00:03:45,726 --> 00:03:50,053
♪ ♪
80
00:03:50,064 --> 00:03:53,065
[ominous music]
81
00:03:53,141 --> 00:04:00,113
♪ ♪
82
00:04:04,561 --> 00:04:07,696
Philadelphia was crazy then.
83
00:04:07,772 --> 00:04:10,699
We lived in the projects,
84
00:04:10,734 --> 00:04:13,743
So you only expected to do
certain things
85
00:04:13,754 --> 00:04:15,078
'cause you poor.
86
00:04:15,089 --> 00:04:17,089
♪ ♪
87
00:04:17,165 --> 00:04:18,873
I was 12
88
00:04:18,950 --> 00:04:22,752
When I first started
dealing with the streets.
89
00:04:22,763 --> 00:04:24,754
I had a good mom.
90
00:04:24,765 --> 00:04:27,599
She was a mother and a father.
91
00:04:27,676 --> 00:04:29,175
You know,
when I didn't want to listen
92
00:04:29,252 --> 00:04:31,720
To the rules and regulations,
I ran away.
93
00:04:31,755 --> 00:04:36,108
And when I ran away,
I was looking for love,
94
00:04:36,184 --> 00:04:40,228
And I found it
in the wrong places.
95
00:04:40,305 --> 00:04:45,191
I was, like, 12 years old
messing with a 26-year-old man.
96
00:04:45,268 --> 00:04:48,236
Back then,
I didn't know no better,
97
00:04:48,271 --> 00:04:52,615
And I thought
I was grown at 12.
98
00:04:52,626 --> 00:04:57,078
He was selling drugs,
and I was using them.
99
00:04:57,155 --> 00:05:01,750
♪ ♪
100
00:05:01,785 --> 00:05:06,421
I was just a young girl
trying to find her way in life
101
00:05:06,456 --> 00:05:09,591
With an older man
that didn't set no directions.
102
00:05:09,626 --> 00:05:12,260
[soft melancholy music]
103
00:05:12,337 --> 00:05:15,138
The people that supposed
to have been in my life
104
00:05:15,149 --> 00:05:17,766
To guide me the right way,
they wasn't,
105
00:05:17,842 --> 00:05:19,559
Because I wasn't letting them.
106
00:05:19,636 --> 00:05:23,772
So I was going off
to the deep end of the streets.
107
00:05:23,848 --> 00:05:25,940
♪ ♪
108
00:05:26,017 --> 00:05:28,660
And that's where I met
gary heidnik.
109
00:05:31,314 --> 00:05:34,074
- My upbringing and discipline
from catholic school,
110
00:05:34,150 --> 00:05:38,170
I think that had a lot to do
with me surviving heidnik.
111
00:05:38,246 --> 00:05:40,622
I was born in 1961
in philadelphia.
112
00:05:40,657 --> 00:05:42,674
And a police officer
113
00:05:42,751 --> 00:05:45,844
Delivered me
in the back of his car.
114
00:05:45,921 --> 00:05:48,797
I was raised
in a great foster home.
115
00:05:48,873 --> 00:05:50,799
I mean, I wanted for nothing.
116
00:05:50,875 --> 00:05:52,842
I went to school,
went to high school, graduated,
117
00:05:52,853 --> 00:05:55,595
You know, went to college,
and I don't know.
118
00:05:55,672 --> 00:05:57,972
Somewhere along the line,
I got sidetracked
119
00:05:58,049 --> 00:06:02,027
And got caught up with weed
and then cocaine.
120
00:06:02,104 --> 00:06:03,603
And it's very easy
to get caught up
121
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,313
In things like that,
you know what I mean?
122
00:06:05,348 --> 00:06:08,024
So now there's not enough--
sufficient money
123
00:06:08,035 --> 00:06:10,202
To go along
with what you're doing,
124
00:06:10,278 --> 00:06:15,115
So then the alternative
is prostituting.
125
00:06:15,191 --> 00:06:17,709
[suspenseful music]
126
00:06:17,786 --> 00:06:19,828
♪ ♪
127
00:06:19,863 --> 00:06:22,872
I was living in an apartment
on 6th street, 6th and girard.
128
00:06:22,883 --> 00:06:26,167
I was a mother of three.
129
00:06:26,202 --> 00:06:28,670
It was the day
before thanksgiving.
130
00:06:28,746 --> 00:06:30,880
I was gonna make
thanksgiving dinner,
131
00:06:30,891 --> 00:06:33,058
And, you know,
I needed a couple extra bucks.
132
00:06:33,135 --> 00:06:34,843
It just kind of worked out
133
00:06:34,919 --> 00:06:38,513
That I ended up being out there
on that night.
134
00:06:38,548 --> 00:06:41,733
I was prostituting.
135
00:06:41,810 --> 00:06:43,393
I was always on front street.
136
00:06:43,404 --> 00:06:45,687
It's where basically all
the girls would generally go
137
00:06:45,722 --> 00:06:47,072
If they were turning tricks.
138
00:06:47,149 --> 00:06:50,358
♪ ♪
139
00:06:50,393 --> 00:06:52,193
It was a rainy night.
It was cold.
140
00:06:52,228 --> 00:06:54,696
It was kind of
pretty chilly out.
141
00:06:54,772 --> 00:06:55,989
So it was really dreary,
142
00:06:56,065 --> 00:06:57,699
And because it was
right before the holidays,
143
00:06:57,734 --> 00:07:01,703
It wasn't a lot of cars
or a lot of traffic.
144
00:07:01,779 --> 00:07:03,371
So it was just, like,
a slow walk
145
00:07:03,448 --> 00:07:06,749
Going down to front street.
146
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,544
I saw the brand-new cadillac
go by a couple times.
147
00:07:09,579 --> 00:07:12,013
I didn't really pay it any--
much attention.
148
00:07:14,435 --> 00:07:17,010
He pulled over.
We started to talk.
149
00:07:17,086 --> 00:07:19,938
He had some money,
and he was so tall.
150
00:07:20,015 --> 00:07:21,773
He was six foot.
151
00:07:21,850 --> 00:07:24,058
He seemed pretty normal,
but, you know,
152
00:07:24,135 --> 00:07:26,728
The word "nut" is not really
stamped on anybody's head,
153
00:07:26,763 --> 00:07:28,730
So you were basically
just taking a chance
154
00:07:28,806 --> 00:07:31,232
To hopefully--that you're gonna
get this done
155
00:07:31,309 --> 00:07:33,109
And get back home safely.
156
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,111
♪ ♪
157
00:07:35,122 --> 00:07:37,113
He was talking,
and he was saying,
158
00:07:37,124 --> 00:07:39,407
"well, you know, it's hard
for me to do stuff in the car.
159
00:07:39,484 --> 00:07:40,783
You know,
I'd rather go to the house."
160
00:07:40,794 --> 00:07:43,119
And it was
a little inconvenient.
161
00:07:43,130 --> 00:07:46,798
It was basically the first
time I made an exception
162
00:07:46,875 --> 00:07:48,249
About going to someone's house,
163
00:07:48,284 --> 00:07:49,968
Because I generally did dates
in the car.
164
00:07:50,045 --> 00:07:52,804
I got in the car,
and we headed to his house.
165
00:07:52,881 --> 00:07:58,927
♪ ♪
166
00:07:59,003 --> 00:08:00,762
When we got to his house,
167
00:08:00,838 --> 00:08:04,098
It was nothing
that looked dangerous.
168
00:08:04,133 --> 00:08:06,893
I mean, he had
coin change in his kitchen
169
00:08:06,970 --> 00:08:08,311
On the walls
and stuff like that.
170
00:08:08,322 --> 00:08:11,773
He had some dollar bills
glued on his stairway,
171
00:08:11,849 --> 00:08:13,158
Like, going up to the bedroom.
172
00:08:13,235 --> 00:08:15,109
He had pinball machines.
173
00:08:15,144 --> 00:08:17,153
But there were no, like,
intuitions,
174
00:08:17,164 --> 00:08:20,615
Like he was a bad person.
175
00:08:20,650 --> 00:08:24,169
And we went upstairs,
and, you know,
176
00:08:24,246 --> 00:08:25,995
I took off my clothes,
he took off his clothes.
177
00:08:26,006 --> 00:08:28,006
You know, we had sex.
178
00:08:28,083 --> 00:08:30,959
And I remember him asking me
distinct questions like,
179
00:08:30,994 --> 00:08:33,294
"well, can you
still have children?
180
00:08:33,329 --> 00:08:36,297
Are your tubes tied?"
181
00:08:36,332 --> 00:08:38,800
You know, that was about it.
We had sex, I got up.
182
00:08:38,876 --> 00:08:40,927
As I'm, like,
trying to put my shirt on,
183
00:08:41,004 --> 00:08:44,731
I remember him coming up
behind me, and he's choking me.
184
00:08:46,268 --> 00:08:48,351
All I can remember was, like,
185
00:08:48,362 --> 00:08:51,312
You know when you're in school
and you have a movie projector
186
00:08:51,389 --> 00:08:53,356
And it slides off,
and it's like,
187
00:08:53,367 --> 00:08:55,441
Click-click-click-click-click
really fast?
188
00:08:55,518 --> 00:08:57,026
And it was, like,
just things in my life
189
00:08:57,037 --> 00:08:58,528
Were just flashing in my head,
190
00:08:58,539 --> 00:09:01,322
Not realizing that
he was actually choking me.
191
00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:03,375
And then he kind of
let loose a little bit,
192
00:09:03,451 --> 00:09:05,159
And then I'm like,
"well, what are you doing?"
193
00:09:05,194 --> 00:09:08,162
And he already had
a handcuff on one of my hands.
194
00:09:08,239 --> 00:09:10,164
And I was, like, struggling
with him, and he was like,
195
00:09:10,241 --> 00:09:12,458
"no, put your other hand
behind your back.
196
00:09:12,535 --> 00:09:14,127
I don't want to hurt you."
197
00:09:14,203 --> 00:09:16,129
And I put my other hand
behind my back,
198
00:09:16,205 --> 00:09:17,505
And he handcuffed it,
199
00:09:17,582 --> 00:09:20,725
And then he proceeded
to take me downstairs.
200
00:09:20,802 --> 00:09:23,303
[door opens, creaks]
201
00:09:23,379 --> 00:09:26,222
He took me down
into the basement.
202
00:09:26,233 --> 00:09:29,142
It was a hole in the basement.
203
00:09:29,218 --> 00:09:32,061
The basement has no windows
or anything.
204
00:09:32,072 --> 00:09:33,813
It's, like,
a freezer is down there.
205
00:09:33,890 --> 00:09:37,075
And he proceeded
to put me in this hole.
206
00:09:37,152 --> 00:09:38,318
It was hard for me to breathe
207
00:09:38,394 --> 00:09:40,412
'cause I'm, like,
still handcuffed.
208
00:09:40,488 --> 00:09:42,155
I really thought
it was a grave.
209
00:09:42,231 --> 00:09:43,865
I'm, like, looking around,
and I'm like,
210
00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:45,199
"is there bodies here?"
211
00:09:45,234 --> 00:09:48,703
Is he just bringing me here to
bury me alive in his basement?
212
00:09:48,738 --> 00:09:51,372
♪ ♪
213
00:09:51,449 --> 00:09:55,043
- Once he found
his sort of victim pool,
214
00:09:55,078 --> 00:09:56,919
He started his church.
215
00:09:56,930 --> 00:09:58,263
- You have to be
doing good work
216
00:09:58,340 --> 00:09:59,589
If you call yourself
a minister.
217
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,925
He was doing work,
but that work wasn't good.
218
00:10:02,936 --> 00:10:04,552
- She was an easy mark.
219
00:10:04,587 --> 00:10:07,221
And he knew it'd be very easy
to trick her
220
00:10:07,256 --> 00:10:09,724
And get her into the basement
221
00:10:09,759 --> 00:10:12,226
To be his, you know,
second slave.
222
00:10:12,303 --> 00:10:15,947
♪ ♪
223
00:10:20,769 --> 00:10:23,446
[foreboding music]
224
00:10:23,457 --> 00:10:28,242
♪ ♪
225
00:10:28,277 --> 00:10:31,079
- I was still
in that coma state.
226
00:10:31,114 --> 00:10:34,123
I remember waking up
and would hear the chain
227
00:10:34,134 --> 00:10:35,750
And think I was dreaming.
228
00:10:35,827 --> 00:10:38,086
But it was really nuts stuff.
229
00:10:38,162 --> 00:10:39,921
This guy kidnapped me,
230
00:10:39,997 --> 00:10:42,256
And I've been chained
in this basement.
231
00:10:42,291 --> 00:10:45,760
I had been in there for hours.
232
00:10:45,837 --> 00:10:47,970
And I'm banging on the board.
233
00:10:47,981 --> 00:10:49,814
I'm, like, crying,
and I'm screaming,
234
00:10:49,891 --> 00:10:52,058
And I'm hollering.
235
00:10:52,135 --> 00:10:56,270
He came downstairs
and he's lifting this board,
236
00:10:56,347 --> 00:10:59,107
And he's, like, grabbing me
by my hair and pulling me out.
237
00:10:59,142 --> 00:11:00,492
And he's beating me,
telling me,
238
00:11:00,568 --> 00:11:01,901
"shut up, shut up, shut up."
239
00:11:01,978 --> 00:11:03,778
Then he puts me
back in there again,
240
00:11:03,813 --> 00:11:05,446
And he covers me up.
241
00:11:05,523 --> 00:11:07,990
♪ ♪
242
00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:10,785
The following day...
243
00:11:10,862 --> 00:11:13,287
Gary heidnik took me
out of the hole,
244
00:11:13,322 --> 00:11:17,166
And then he started handcuffing
me with these muffler clamps,
245
00:11:17,177 --> 00:11:20,461
With this krazy glue and that,
246
00:11:20,538 --> 00:11:22,964
With this chain attached
to this sewer pipe.
247
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,173
And as he's doing that,
248
00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:26,300
He talked to me
like he knew me for years.
249
00:11:26,377 --> 00:11:28,136
He was saying, like, you know,
250
00:11:28,212 --> 00:11:30,930
He had impregnated
all these girls,
251
00:11:31,007 --> 00:11:32,515
And every time
he would have a baby,
252
00:11:32,526 --> 00:11:35,101
Philadelphia dhs
would just snatch them up,
253
00:11:35,178 --> 00:11:37,529
And he would never
get to see them.
254
00:11:37,605 --> 00:11:42,492
Then he started explaining
to me his agenda.
255
00:11:44,187 --> 00:11:46,821
He wanted to gather girls
on marshall street,
256
00:11:46,898 --> 00:11:49,323
And then just keep impregnating
all these girls
257
00:11:49,358 --> 00:11:51,209
So he would have all these kids
258
00:11:51,286 --> 00:11:53,995
And he would be able
to raise his own children.
259
00:11:54,071 --> 00:11:55,663
He was just really desperate,
260
00:11:55,698 --> 00:11:59,041
And he just couldn't see
another way out of it.
261
00:11:59,052 --> 00:12:02,503
- Heidnik, his idea was to...
262
00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:04,389
Kidnap women
263
00:12:04,466 --> 00:12:06,007
And create this harem
264
00:12:06,042 --> 00:12:07,508
Of sexual slaves
265
00:12:07,543 --> 00:12:09,469
That he would impregnate them
266
00:12:09,545 --> 00:12:12,013
And have all these children.
267
00:12:12,089 --> 00:12:14,849
He was out to establish
268
00:12:14,926 --> 00:12:18,561
A throne of power,
control, and adoration.
269
00:12:18,572 --> 00:12:20,521
- He was obsessed with money.
270
00:12:20,556 --> 00:12:22,231
He was obsessed with fame.
271
00:12:22,242 --> 00:12:23,524
He wanted to be a big shot,
272
00:12:23,601 --> 00:12:26,077
Driving around
in a brand-new cadillac.
273
00:12:26,154 --> 00:12:27,361
On the other hand,
274
00:12:27,396 --> 00:12:31,324
The other gary heidnik
was religious.
275
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,252
He was a self-ordained--
when I say self-ordained,
276
00:12:34,329 --> 00:12:38,331
You could buy a corporate kit
and ordain yourself a bishop.
277
00:12:38,407 --> 00:12:42,084
So he was an ordained minister
and started a church,
278
00:12:42,095 --> 00:12:45,213
The united church
of the ministers of god.
279
00:12:45,248 --> 00:12:49,217
And he would actually have
church services
280
00:12:49,293 --> 00:12:52,386
On the first floor
of his house.
281
00:12:52,463 --> 00:12:55,440
The church was--
in actual services
282
00:12:55,517 --> 00:12:59,060
Where it was part prestige.
283
00:12:59,095 --> 00:13:01,062
He was looked up to
in the area--
284
00:13:01,138 --> 00:13:03,606
Where people would call him
bishop heidnik.
285
00:13:03,617 --> 00:13:04,799
He loved that.
286
00:13:04,876 --> 00:13:07,610
He would have the church
services and give a sermon,
287
00:13:07,621 --> 00:13:09,529
And he loved the authority
over them.
288
00:13:09,605 --> 00:13:11,447
He was somebody.
289
00:13:11,458 --> 00:13:16,953
And he would preach to about
seven to ten people each week.
290
00:13:16,963 --> 00:13:19,580
- He used to wear
a roman collar.
291
00:13:19,615 --> 00:13:22,250
I mean, he even had
a plastic sign
292
00:13:22,326 --> 00:13:23,918
On the front of his house--
293
00:13:23,995 --> 00:13:27,046
"the church of the
united ministers of christ."
294
00:13:27,123 --> 00:13:28,756
But the reason he did that was
295
00:13:28,791 --> 00:13:31,259
He didn't want to have
to pay taxes on the money
296
00:13:31,335 --> 00:13:35,980
He was making and withdrawing
from his investments.
297
00:13:36,057 --> 00:13:38,474
- He was a degreed nurse
298
00:13:38,485 --> 00:13:41,936
From the university
of pennsylvania with a 148 iq.
299
00:13:42,013 --> 00:13:46,941
He made $700,000 back then
in the stock market.
300
00:13:46,976 --> 00:13:49,235
[soft dramatic music]
301
00:13:49,312 --> 00:13:52,613
- In '83, he moved
to marshall street
302
00:13:52,690 --> 00:13:55,283
In philadelphia.
303
00:13:55,318 --> 00:13:58,119
- When they first moved in,
he would tell me
304
00:13:58,195 --> 00:14:00,580
He wanted what I had,
a family--
305
00:14:00,656 --> 00:14:02,456
Three beautiful girls.
306
00:14:02,491 --> 00:14:05,960
You know, he wanted to have
a wife and children someday.
307
00:14:06,037 --> 00:14:08,504
- He had a filipino
mail-order bride.
308
00:14:08,515 --> 00:14:11,007
He got the idea
because he read that
309
00:14:11,017 --> 00:14:14,760
Asian women would be
totally subservient as a wife,
310
00:14:14,837 --> 00:14:17,597
And he loved that idea.
311
00:14:17,673 --> 00:14:20,525
- It was all right at first...
312
00:14:20,602 --> 00:14:23,436
And it seemed like
after she got pregnant,
313
00:14:23,512 --> 00:14:26,147
When things were starting
to go wrong.
314
00:14:26,182 --> 00:14:30,443
Walls were thin, so you could
hear them yell or arguing.
315
00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:33,613
His wife told me--she says,
"oh, gary hit me."
316
00:14:33,689 --> 00:14:36,657
And I said,
"well, don't let him do that."
317
00:14:36,692 --> 00:14:41,037
I said,
"and if you can't stop him,
318
00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:43,214
Then you need to leave."
319
00:14:43,291 --> 00:14:46,459
And then it wasn't
long after that, she left.
320
00:14:46,535 --> 00:14:49,128
♪ ♪
321
00:14:49,205 --> 00:14:52,340
That's when he started
bringing a lot of girls home.
322
00:14:52,375 --> 00:14:54,383
They were only there
for one purpose--
323
00:14:54,394 --> 00:14:56,385
To get money
for whatever they could do.
324
00:14:56,396 --> 00:14:59,513
♪ ♪
325
00:14:59,548 --> 00:15:02,683
- Gary heidnik
was in a poor neighborhood.
326
00:15:02,718 --> 00:15:05,186
People turned a blind eye
327
00:15:05,262 --> 00:15:08,522
To things that he did.
328
00:15:08,599 --> 00:15:10,858
Some of them
were not so unusual,
329
00:15:10,893 --> 00:15:14,362
Black women
going into the home.
330
00:15:14,397 --> 00:15:17,323
But I think mainly because
he was a white male,
331
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,743
He was able to project himself
as this...
332
00:15:20,754 --> 00:15:23,704
Normal human being.
333
00:15:23,781 --> 00:15:28,167
And it enabled him to get away
with the things that he did.
334
00:15:28,244 --> 00:15:30,544
- Issues of poverty
accelerated
335
00:15:30,579 --> 00:15:33,097
During the 1980s.
336
00:15:33,174 --> 00:15:36,509
The city of philadelphia's
housing policies
337
00:15:36,585 --> 00:15:38,552
Deliberately underfunded areas
338
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:40,554
Like north philadelphia.
339
00:15:40,631 --> 00:15:43,775
The racism has been embedded
in the city,
340
00:15:43,851 --> 00:15:48,396
And that was a problem going
back to the colonial period.
341
00:15:48,472 --> 00:15:52,066
Policies from city hall
were driving
342
00:15:52,143 --> 00:15:53,526
The impoverishment.
343
00:15:53,602 --> 00:15:57,279
This purposeful exclusion
created barriers
344
00:15:57,290 --> 00:16:00,792
To the rise of economics
in the black community,
345
00:16:00,868 --> 00:16:04,462
And that all fed the crime.
346
00:16:04,539 --> 00:16:07,581
- I worked 5th to 10th,
poplar to norris,
347
00:16:07,658 --> 00:16:11,210
Which is predominantly
black and hispanic.
348
00:16:11,287 --> 00:16:13,087
A lot of drug trafficking,
349
00:16:13,164 --> 00:16:15,306
A lot of robberies, shootings.
350
00:16:15,383 --> 00:16:17,258
It's a rough neighborhood.
351
00:16:17,334 --> 00:16:20,636
- At that time,
we were experiencing
352
00:16:20,647 --> 00:16:24,306
Somewhere between
300 to 400 homicides a year.
353
00:16:24,317 --> 00:16:26,651
- North philadelphia
was going down,
354
00:16:26,728 --> 00:16:30,604
And it just kind of had
a whirlpool-type effect,
355
00:16:30,681 --> 00:16:35,276
Which sucked it down
even further during the 1980s.
356
00:16:35,311 --> 00:16:39,613
The ladies who were victimized
by gary heidnik,
357
00:16:39,648 --> 00:16:42,783
Had they been
of a different race
358
00:16:42,818 --> 00:16:44,952
Or a different economic class,
359
00:16:44,987 --> 00:16:47,288
Clearly there would've been
a different response
360
00:16:47,364 --> 00:16:49,290
And responsiveness.
361
00:16:49,325 --> 00:16:52,293
[suspenseful music]
362
00:16:52,328 --> 00:16:53,419
- It took me a couple days
363
00:16:53,496 --> 00:16:56,347
To get oriented to what
actually is really going on.
364
00:16:56,424 --> 00:16:58,516
♪ ♪
365
00:16:58,593 --> 00:17:01,594
He started handcuffing me
behind my back.
366
00:17:01,670 --> 00:17:03,262
It was, like,
the worst thing in the world.
367
00:17:03,339 --> 00:17:05,598
I would be that way
for so long
368
00:17:05,674 --> 00:17:07,600
That, when he would finally
take the handcuffs off,
369
00:17:07,676 --> 00:17:10,144
I couldn't even move my arms.
370
00:17:10,179 --> 00:17:11,696
I wasn't fighting,
371
00:17:11,773 --> 00:17:13,856
Because basically there was
really nothing you could do.
372
00:17:13,867 --> 00:17:16,859
Hollering, screaming,
and making noise,
373
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:18,486
You're just gonna get
a punishment.
374
00:17:18,562 --> 00:17:21,655
You're just gonna get
your ass beat.
375
00:17:21,690 --> 00:17:25,493
[tense music]
376
00:17:25,528 --> 00:17:26,878
I was in the hole,
377
00:17:26,954 --> 00:17:29,497
And I remember hearing
the footsteps.
378
00:17:29,532 --> 00:17:31,883
And I just heard this crying.
379
00:17:31,959 --> 00:17:34,627
He kept saying, "shut up.
You know you know me.
380
00:17:34,703 --> 00:17:36,712
You know
I'm not gonna hurt you."
381
00:17:36,723 --> 00:17:39,173
He took me out of the hole,
382
00:17:39,208 --> 00:17:42,301
And I saw this girl
sitting there.
383
00:17:42,378 --> 00:17:43,803
And she has handcuffs on,
384
00:17:43,879 --> 00:17:47,181
And he's putting these
muffler clamps on her now.
385
00:17:47,258 --> 00:17:48,641
Putting krazy glue,
386
00:17:48,717 --> 00:17:50,518
And he's air-drying them
with the hair dryer.
387
00:17:50,553 --> 00:17:52,686
He kept telling her, "I don't
know why you're crying.
388
00:17:52,763 --> 00:17:54,522
"I don't know why you're upset.
You know me.
389
00:17:54,557 --> 00:17:56,690
You've been in my house
a thousand times."
390
00:17:56,725 --> 00:17:58,743
You know?
391
00:17:58,820 --> 00:18:01,695
But I'm sure she hadn't been
there in that capacity.
392
00:18:01,772 --> 00:18:07,502
♪ ♪
393
00:18:11,348 --> 00:18:14,416
[tense music]
394
00:18:14,427 --> 00:18:21,390
♪ ♪
395
00:18:23,919 --> 00:18:26,053
- This is
the gary heidnik house,
396
00:18:26,088 --> 00:18:29,774
The place where I was held
hostage for 100 days.
397
00:18:29,851 --> 00:18:32,777
It doesn't even seem
like I've been here before.
398
00:18:32,854 --> 00:18:36,614
♪ ♪
399
00:18:36,691 --> 00:18:38,774
I don't even know what to say.
400
00:18:38,785 --> 00:18:40,901
So much horror and torture
went on here.
401
00:18:40,978 --> 00:18:43,779
♪ ♪
402
00:18:43,790 --> 00:18:46,740
I thank god that I'm standing
outside this house
403
00:18:46,775 --> 00:18:48,951
Instead of being
in this basement.
404
00:18:48,962 --> 00:18:55,925
♪ ♪
405
00:18:58,954 --> 00:19:01,589
I was in the hole,
and I remember hearing--
406
00:19:01,665 --> 00:19:03,474
Just hearing a girl crying.
407
00:19:03,551 --> 00:19:04,550
And he takes me out the hole,
408
00:19:04,627 --> 00:19:06,802
And I'm looking at this girl,
and she's naked.
409
00:19:06,813 --> 00:19:08,304
She has handcuffs on.
410
00:19:08,314 --> 00:19:10,472
And he's like, "this is sandra,
411
00:19:10,483 --> 00:19:12,308
And, sandra, this is josefina,"
412
00:19:12,318 --> 00:19:15,561
As he's putting these
muffler clamps on her.
413
00:19:15,638 --> 00:19:17,897
And I can see from her talking
414
00:19:17,973 --> 00:19:21,775
That she has some type
of mental disability.
415
00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:24,570
- I think that he picked
sandra next
416
00:19:24,647 --> 00:19:26,071
Because she was an easy mark
417
00:19:26,148 --> 00:19:28,949
And he knew it'd be very easy
to trick her
418
00:19:29,026 --> 00:19:31,452
And get her into the basement
419
00:19:31,528 --> 00:19:35,122
To be his, you know,
second slave.
420
00:19:35,199 --> 00:19:37,508
- Sandra lindsay was a girl
421
00:19:37,585 --> 00:19:41,503
Who was mildly
mentally deficient,
422
00:19:41,514 --> 00:19:44,632
Had gone to training
at the elwyn school
423
00:19:44,667 --> 00:19:47,509
In west philadelphia
that treated people
424
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,938
That could not survive
in a regular school setting.
425
00:19:52,525 --> 00:19:57,028
She was just an innocent person
from a loving family.
426
00:19:57,104 --> 00:20:01,482
- He preyed on people
who could not fight back.
427
00:20:01,558 --> 00:20:04,151
Prostitutes,
they can't run to the police.
428
00:20:04,186 --> 00:20:05,611
So, if he kidnapped
429
00:20:05,688 --> 00:20:06,612
A prostitute,
430
00:20:06,689 --> 00:20:07,947
Who's gonna miss her?
431
00:20:08,023 --> 00:20:11,158
If he went after somebody
who was mentally ill,
432
00:20:11,235 --> 00:20:12,660
Who's gonna miss her?
433
00:20:12,695 --> 00:20:14,370
She's not gonna know
what to do.
434
00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:17,539
So he always preyed
on weak people
435
00:20:17,550 --> 00:20:19,717
Because he wanted
to be dominant,
436
00:20:19,794 --> 00:20:22,002
He wanted to totally be
in control.
437
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:24,672
♪ ♪
438
00:20:24,748 --> 00:20:27,508
- With heidnik,
fear of abandonment
439
00:20:27,543 --> 00:20:29,385
Is a theme that just drives
440
00:20:29,395 --> 00:20:32,513
Right through all
of his history and his crimes.
441
00:20:32,548 --> 00:20:35,724
Really had
a persecution complex almost.
442
00:20:35,735 --> 00:20:38,143
"why do people hate me?"
443
00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:41,021
Because he was such
a social outcast,
444
00:20:41,056 --> 00:20:43,691
Books and things
became his escape,
445
00:20:43,726 --> 00:20:46,026
Where he could envision himself
as powerful
446
00:20:46,103 --> 00:20:48,862
And loved and popular--
447
00:20:48,939 --> 00:20:52,416
All the opposites of what his
real-world experiences were.
448
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,203
- He went into the army.
449
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,581
He was trained
as a military nurse
450
00:20:59,592 --> 00:21:01,092
And assigned to germany.
451
00:21:01,168 --> 00:21:05,596
When he was over in germany,
he proceeded to act up,
452
00:21:05,673 --> 00:21:09,392
And eventually
he got a military discharge.
453
00:21:10,627 --> 00:21:13,220
- Him being trained as a medic
454
00:21:13,297 --> 00:21:15,055
Gave him the idea
of being a nurse
455
00:21:15,132 --> 00:21:17,057
Once he got back
into the states.
456
00:21:17,134 --> 00:21:19,893
The position he got
with the elwyn institute
457
00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:21,770
In west philadelphia,
458
00:21:21,781 --> 00:21:23,781
Which serves folks
with intellectual
459
00:21:23,858 --> 00:21:26,191
And developmental
disabilities...
460
00:21:26,268 --> 00:21:30,863
He very quickly found
not only could he excel
461
00:21:30,939 --> 00:21:33,449
And feel like he was
an important person,
462
00:21:33,459 --> 00:21:35,451
He could easily take advantage
463
00:21:35,461 --> 00:21:38,546
Of these poor
intellectually disabled women.
464
00:21:39,874 --> 00:21:42,082
He would take the clients
out on these tours
465
00:21:42,159 --> 00:21:44,084
Into the community,
466
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,754
And then he would sneak them
off to his apartment
467
00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:49,757
To exploit the women
for sexual favors.
468
00:21:49,792 --> 00:21:51,475
It was a big, huge boost
469
00:21:51,552 --> 00:21:56,138
To his, you know, tiny,
weak, fragile ego.
470
00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:58,265
[foreboding music]
471
00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:01,769
Once he found
his sort of victim pool,
472
00:22:01,845 --> 00:22:05,105
He started his church
with his small community.
473
00:22:05,182 --> 00:22:07,941
And he used the church
for his purposes.
474
00:22:07,976 --> 00:22:10,152
- He would have sessions
every Sunday,
475
00:22:10,163 --> 00:22:13,739
Where he would bring
mentally deficient young women
476
00:22:13,816 --> 00:22:16,116
And other people into his house
and preach to them.
477
00:22:16,193 --> 00:22:18,285
♪ ♪
478
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,790
- Hustlers do not shy away
from religion.
479
00:22:22,866 --> 00:22:25,626
It's a way
to captivate people,
480
00:22:25,661 --> 00:22:26,960
'cause people will look at it,
481
00:22:27,037 --> 00:22:29,296
And it'll give that veneer
of respectability
482
00:22:29,331 --> 00:22:34,635
Because you are associated
with religion and the lord.
483
00:22:34,711 --> 00:22:36,095
You have to be doing good work
484
00:22:36,171 --> 00:22:37,846
If you call yourself
485
00:22:37,857 --> 00:22:38,931
A minister.
486
00:22:39,007 --> 00:22:40,265
He was doing work,
487
00:22:40,342 --> 00:22:41,850
But that work wasn't good.
488
00:22:41,861 --> 00:22:45,145
And I think that church
gave him cover,
489
00:22:45,222 --> 00:22:47,865
And that cover worked
to his advantage.
490
00:22:47,942 --> 00:22:50,150
♪ ♪
491
00:22:50,185 --> 00:22:52,986
- In his mind,
he was creating a church
492
00:22:53,063 --> 00:22:55,656
For all the other misfits
in the world,
493
00:22:55,732 --> 00:22:59,535
You know, a church
that would specialize in folks
494
00:22:59,545 --> 00:23:01,995
With intellectual disabilities
that would be, you know,
495
00:23:02,030 --> 00:23:04,164
Cast aside by normal churches.
496
00:23:04,241 --> 00:23:07,709
And he saw himself
as this benevolent leader,
497
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,212
And he pronounced
himself bishop.
498
00:23:10,223 --> 00:23:14,716
[scoffs] and it really
was just to play god.
499
00:23:14,727 --> 00:23:19,680
♪ ♪
500
00:23:19,756 --> 00:23:24,560
- Heidnik knew sandra lindsay
from before he kidnapped her.
501
00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:27,855
- I remember sandra.
She used to come over a lot.
502
00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:30,908
After a while,
gary started locking the gate.
503
00:23:30,985 --> 00:23:34,578
I said, "well, you can
step over right here
504
00:23:34,655 --> 00:23:36,029
"and step down in the yard,
505
00:23:36,106 --> 00:23:38,699
And then you can go over
to the door."
506
00:23:38,775 --> 00:23:43,078
So she climbed over the fence
and went to the door,
507
00:23:43,089 --> 00:23:45,581
And she knocked,
and gary opened the door,
508
00:23:45,591 --> 00:23:47,583
And she went in.
509
00:23:47,593 --> 00:23:50,878
♪ ♪
510
00:23:50,913 --> 00:23:54,882
- After sandra got there,
we are in a hole for hours.
511
00:23:54,917 --> 00:23:57,259
We were just buried alive.
512
00:23:57,270 --> 00:24:00,095
It was like living in...
513
00:24:00,106 --> 00:24:02,055
Just living
in a permanent grave.
514
00:24:02,132 --> 00:24:04,275
That's how it felt,
'cause we're just in dirt,
515
00:24:04,351 --> 00:24:07,728
Just laying in dirt.
516
00:24:07,763 --> 00:24:10,230
A while later,
we're talking in a hole.
517
00:24:10,265 --> 00:24:12,232
Like, she's telling me
she's from west philly,
518
00:24:12,309 --> 00:24:14,234
That she knew gary
for quite a few years,
519
00:24:14,311 --> 00:24:16,069
And that, you know,
she didn't really understand
520
00:24:16,146 --> 00:24:17,955
Why he was doing this.
521
00:24:19,316 --> 00:24:22,626
And I start just digging
for information,
522
00:24:22,703 --> 00:24:24,119
You know,
that tells me a little bit
523
00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:26,079
About his personality
and, you know,
524
00:24:26,156 --> 00:24:30,417
What's going on in his head,
because she knew him so long.
525
00:24:30,452 --> 00:24:32,878
Now I have to try
to figure out,
526
00:24:32,955 --> 00:24:34,296
Where am I gonna go from here?
527
00:24:34,307 --> 00:24:35,923
'cause I have no idea.
528
00:24:35,958 --> 00:24:37,641
I made up my mind
I was gonna make
529
00:24:37,718 --> 00:24:40,260
Every effort possible to be
able to get out of there.
530
00:24:40,295 --> 00:24:41,803
I had no plan.
531
00:24:41,814 --> 00:24:44,932
'cause I wanted to live,
and I wasn't done living.
532
00:24:45,008 --> 00:24:50,437
♪ ♪
533
00:24:50,514 --> 00:24:53,824
- Philadelphia made
josefina a hero.
534
00:24:53,901 --> 00:24:55,659
She wasn't a hero for me.
535
00:25:02,025 --> 00:25:04,326
- When I see, I don't know
if I'ma run up to her
536
00:25:04,337 --> 00:25:05,911
And start punching her.
537
00:25:05,988 --> 00:25:07,955
I don't know if I'ma hug her.
538
00:25:08,031 --> 00:25:09,665
After 30 years,
539
00:25:09,675 --> 00:25:11,833
I'm yet to hear one apology.
540
00:25:11,844 --> 00:25:16,722
♪ ♪
541
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,137
[dramatic music]
542
00:25:24,214 --> 00:25:26,974
- Sandra lindsay's family is
desperately looking for her.
543
00:25:27,009 --> 00:25:30,027
And they know that
she was fond of gary heidnik,
544
00:25:30,104 --> 00:25:33,355
And they know that
the last person she was with
545
00:25:33,366 --> 00:25:34,982
Was supposed to be gary heidnik
546
00:25:35,017 --> 00:25:38,819
Because she stated,
"I'm going to see gary."
547
00:25:38,854 --> 00:25:41,038
And they know where he lives.
548
00:25:41,115 --> 00:25:44,157
♪ ♪
549
00:25:44,192 --> 00:25:46,994
- Jeanette perkins, who was
the mother of sandra lindsay,
550
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:50,330
She and sandra's other sister,
tracey lomax,
551
00:25:50,407 --> 00:25:52,040
They went to the house
and knocked on the door,
552
00:25:52,051 --> 00:25:54,385
And they got no answer.
553
00:25:54,461 --> 00:25:56,712
- She didn't have
a whole lot of family
554
00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:58,722
With any wherewithal
to find her.
555
00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:00,724
Gary heidnik knew there
wouldn't be an army out
556
00:26:00,801 --> 00:26:03,719
Looking for her--
perfect heidnik victim.
557
00:26:03,729 --> 00:26:07,306
Abused her,
had sex with her at his will,
558
00:26:07,382 --> 00:26:09,474
And he wasn't gonna get caught.
559
00:26:09,551 --> 00:26:11,852
Nobody was gonna do
anything about it.
560
00:26:11,928 --> 00:26:15,406
But sandra's family filed
a missing-persons report,
561
00:26:15,482 --> 00:26:18,075
So the police go
to gary heidnik's house.
562
00:26:18,152 --> 00:26:21,028
♪ ♪
563
00:26:21,104 --> 00:26:22,404
- The officers had gone
to the house
564
00:26:22,415 --> 00:26:24,364
At the request of the family
looking for sandra.
565
00:26:24,441 --> 00:26:26,867
- They knock on the door
to look for sandra.
566
00:26:26,943 --> 00:26:29,369
He doesn't answer the door.
567
00:26:29,446 --> 00:26:32,873
The girls were downstairs,
chained up at that very moment.
568
00:26:32,949 --> 00:26:36,302
[train horn blares]
569
00:26:37,954 --> 00:26:40,422
- Heidnik's house
was in the 25th district,
570
00:26:40,433 --> 00:26:42,049
Which, at that time,
571
00:26:42,084 --> 00:26:44,509
Was one of the busiest
districts in the city.
572
00:26:44,586 --> 00:26:48,055
30 years ago, they didn't have
the access to, you know,
573
00:26:48,131 --> 00:26:50,891
Information right on the spot
like they do now.
574
00:26:50,926 --> 00:26:52,893
So that meant the officer
would've had to come in
575
00:26:52,928 --> 00:26:54,936
Off the street,
into the operations room
576
00:26:54,947 --> 00:26:56,271
Or to the detective division
577
00:26:56,282 --> 00:26:58,065
To try to have them--
what we call
578
00:26:58,141 --> 00:27:01,234
"run the information
through the computer."
579
00:27:01,269 --> 00:27:02,569
The officer
that went to the house
580
00:27:02,604 --> 00:27:04,112
Was given incorrect information
581
00:27:04,123 --> 00:27:06,457
In terms of the spelling
of heidnik's name.
582
00:27:06,533 --> 00:27:08,959
- Gary heidnik--
do you spell it I-e?
583
00:27:09,036 --> 00:27:10,911
Do you spell it e-I?
584
00:27:10,987 --> 00:27:12,537
It could be either way.
585
00:27:12,614 --> 00:27:14,915
So you don't try
different combinations?
586
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:16,124
And that was the testimony,
587
00:27:16,135 --> 00:27:18,302
That he didn't try
different combinations.
588
00:27:18,379 --> 00:27:20,253
- Based upon that
misspelling of the name,
589
00:27:20,288 --> 00:27:22,923
The officer was not able
to find out
590
00:27:22,999 --> 00:27:25,050
That heidnik did have
a prior record.
591
00:27:25,127 --> 00:27:26,968
- And the effort was made,
592
00:27:26,979 --> 00:27:28,303
The box was ticked,
593
00:27:28,314 --> 00:27:29,805
And we move on.
594
00:27:29,815 --> 00:27:33,392
And it wasn't
a thorough investigation.
595
00:27:33,468 --> 00:27:35,102
- Bad policing.
596
00:27:35,178 --> 00:27:37,813
He had a prior record
for abusing women.
597
00:27:37,823 --> 00:27:39,981
♪ ♪
598
00:27:39,992 --> 00:27:42,401
- In '78,
he had a common-law wife
599
00:27:42,477 --> 00:27:44,444
By the name
of anjeanette davidson.
600
00:27:44,521 --> 00:27:46,446
She was mentally disabled.
601
00:27:46,481 --> 00:27:50,167
She had a sister,
alberta davidson,
602
00:27:50,244 --> 00:27:53,504
Who had been
in a mental institution
603
00:27:53,580 --> 00:27:56,289
Since the time she was 14.
604
00:27:56,366 --> 00:28:00,168
Anjeanette and gary went out
to visit her one day.
605
00:28:00,179 --> 00:28:03,088
They brought her
back to philadelphia.
606
00:28:03,165 --> 00:28:06,425
He then proceeded to rape her
607
00:28:06,501 --> 00:28:10,020
And not return her to the
institute as he had promised.
608
00:28:10,097 --> 00:28:11,304
[knock at door]
609
00:28:11,339 --> 00:28:13,640
Doctors who were
caring for her
610
00:28:13,717 --> 00:28:15,526
Came to philadelphia,
confronted him.
611
00:28:15,602 --> 00:28:18,478
Found her locked
in a storage area
612
00:28:18,555 --> 00:28:20,364
In the apartment building.
613
00:28:20,441 --> 00:28:23,358
The institute contacted the
police here in philadelphia.
614
00:28:23,369 --> 00:28:25,944
He was convicted
of kidnapping,
615
00:28:26,021 --> 00:28:29,373
Interference with the custody
of a disabled person,
616
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:32,159
And reckless endangering
another person.
617
00:28:32,194 --> 00:28:34,494
He was sentenced to three
to seven years in prison.
618
00:28:34,571 --> 00:28:38,039
♪ ♪
619
00:28:38,050 --> 00:28:40,000
He got out in '83.
620
00:28:40,035 --> 00:28:44,337
The whole episode
with the davidson sisters,
621
00:28:44,414 --> 00:28:46,339
I believe, is prime example
622
00:28:46,416 --> 00:28:50,177
Of the maliciousness
and the depravity of this man.
623
00:28:50,253 --> 00:28:52,137
♪ ♪
624
00:28:52,214 --> 00:28:54,389
- That is where
he went to prison,
625
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,683
But he had many encounters
with women
626
00:28:56,718 --> 00:28:59,352
Where he absolutely
petrified them.
627
00:28:59,429 --> 00:29:01,905
♪ ♪
628
00:29:01,982 --> 00:29:05,233
Gary raped
his mail-order bride daily
629
00:29:05,244 --> 00:29:07,360
And beat her daily.
630
00:29:07,395 --> 00:29:10,197
So finally she escaped
and went to a home
631
00:29:10,232 --> 00:29:11,531
Where they gave her
some guidance.
632
00:29:11,608 --> 00:29:13,366
And she went
to the authorities.
633
00:29:13,443 --> 00:29:17,087
They arrested him for it--
spousal sexual assault.
634
00:29:17,164 --> 00:29:20,090
But she was
so deathly afraid of him,
635
00:29:20,167 --> 00:29:22,667
And she wasn't about to
step foot in that courtroom
636
00:29:22,744 --> 00:29:25,921
Without a guarantee that
he would never get out of jail.
637
00:29:25,931 --> 00:29:27,598
He was never
even convicted of it
638
00:29:27,674 --> 00:29:29,933
Because she didn't show up
to testify.
639
00:29:30,010 --> 00:29:33,386
♪ ♪
640
00:29:33,421 --> 00:29:35,555
- Had that officer
been able to find out
641
00:29:35,632 --> 00:29:37,557
The correct spelling
of heidnik's name
642
00:29:37,592 --> 00:29:40,227
And that heidnik
did have a prior record
643
00:29:40,303 --> 00:29:42,229
For kidnapping and rape,
644
00:29:42,305 --> 00:29:45,106
Things may have been
very different.
645
00:29:45,117 --> 00:29:47,275
- I don't like to play
the race card,
646
00:29:47,286 --> 00:29:49,110
But I have to say
647
00:29:49,121 --> 00:29:51,238
That the handwriting's
on the wall in this case.
648
00:29:51,314 --> 00:29:56,034
The fact that sandra
was from a poor black family
649
00:29:56,111 --> 00:29:57,452
Who doesn't have
any connections,
650
00:29:57,463 --> 00:30:01,623
I think that that's what ended
the investigation.
651
00:30:01,634 --> 00:30:05,544
- Very often
cases are "broken"
652
00:30:05,620 --> 00:30:07,971
Because somebody says,
"hey, wait a minute.
653
00:30:08,048 --> 00:30:10,090
"let me take
a second look at this,
654
00:30:10,166 --> 00:30:11,550
Maybe a third look."
655
00:30:11,626 --> 00:30:14,261
But in this case,
it didn't happen.
656
00:30:14,296 --> 00:30:15,971
- You have good cops
and bad cops
657
00:30:15,981 --> 00:30:18,265
And stupid cops and smart cops.
658
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:20,475
We had a lazy and stupid cop,
659
00:30:20,486 --> 00:30:24,437
Which is a lethal combination
for sandra.
660
00:30:24,514 --> 00:30:27,440
♪ ♪
661
00:30:27,517 --> 00:30:31,995
- It was quite a few times that
we heard pounding at the door.
662
00:30:32,072 --> 00:30:34,114
I never questioned him,
sandra never questioned him
663
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:36,449
About who's at the door
or anything like that.
664
00:30:36,484 --> 00:30:38,502
[door opens, creaks]
665
00:30:38,579 --> 00:30:40,412
Heidnik came downstairs,
666
00:30:40,488 --> 00:30:43,290
And he had on
these rubber gloves,
667
00:30:43,366 --> 00:30:46,293
And he had this pen, paper,
and envelope.
668
00:30:46,369 --> 00:30:47,502
And he told sandra,
669
00:30:47,513 --> 00:30:50,297
"okay, you're gonna sit down
and write this letter.
670
00:30:50,332 --> 00:30:54,301
"'hey, mom, you know, I'm fine.
I'm going to new york.
671
00:30:54,377 --> 00:30:57,137
"'I'm having a great time.
Don't worry about me.
672
00:30:57,213 --> 00:31:00,015
You don't have to look for me.
I'll be home soon.'"
673
00:31:00,025 --> 00:31:02,309
♪ ♪
674
00:31:02,385 --> 00:31:05,020
Then he told sandra
to make sure
675
00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:06,688
She touched the whole paper,
676
00:31:06,699 --> 00:31:08,198
Like, you know,
feel it all up
677
00:31:08,275 --> 00:31:10,033
So her prints
would be on there.
678
00:31:10,110 --> 00:31:12,110
Then he made her do
the envelope the same way,
679
00:31:12,187 --> 00:31:15,155
And he made her lick
the envelope herself.
680
00:31:15,231 --> 00:31:17,490
- You have gary heidnik
driving to new york.
681
00:31:17,525 --> 00:31:19,492
- Heidnik then mailed
that letter
682
00:31:19,569 --> 00:31:21,661
From new york
to jeanette perkins
683
00:31:21,738 --> 00:31:25,040
To defer them from trying
to come back to his house
684
00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:27,542
And find their sister
and daughter.
685
00:31:27,553 --> 00:31:31,379
- He was gone for a long time,
like, hours.
686
00:31:31,390 --> 00:31:32,714
We heard the car when it left,
687
00:31:32,725 --> 00:31:35,675
And then we heard the car
when it came back.
688
00:31:35,752 --> 00:31:39,554
There was times where we were
in the hole for hours.
689
00:31:39,565 --> 00:31:42,474
And the thing was, what if
something happened to him
690
00:31:42,550 --> 00:31:44,067
While he was out?
691
00:31:44,144 --> 00:31:46,311
Who was gonna find us then?
692
00:31:46,388 --> 00:31:48,739
So, when he came home,
I told him
693
00:31:48,815 --> 00:31:51,358
I knew he was gone for, like,
hours and hours and hours.
694
00:31:51,434 --> 00:31:53,193
And he was like, "really?"
695
00:31:53,269 --> 00:31:54,428
And then he
kind of distinguished
696
00:31:54,504 --> 00:31:56,529
That we knew when he was coming
in and out the house.
697
00:31:56,564 --> 00:31:58,239
And I remember him saying,
698
00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:01,076
"well, I have a solution
for that."
699
00:32:01,086 --> 00:32:02,410
He went back upstairs,
700
00:32:02,421 --> 00:32:05,705
And then he came downstairs
to the basement.
701
00:32:05,740 --> 00:32:07,591
He had
a phillips screwdriver,
702
00:32:07,668 --> 00:32:09,709
And he's, like,
taking these screwdrivers,
703
00:32:09,786 --> 00:32:12,545
He says, "I'm just gonna dig
everybody's eardrums out
704
00:32:12,622 --> 00:32:14,881
So you wouldn't be
able to hear."
705
00:32:14,916 --> 00:32:19,552
And he was just, like,
digging them in our ears,
706
00:32:19,629 --> 00:32:21,513
Trying to get in our eardrums.
707
00:32:21,589 --> 00:32:24,891
It was horrifying.
708
00:32:24,926 --> 00:32:28,561
It was horrifying,
'cause it really hurt.
709
00:32:28,596 --> 00:32:31,231
It really hurt.
710
00:32:31,266 --> 00:32:34,567
It's just so hard to explain
because it was just so unreal,
711
00:32:34,602 --> 00:32:36,736
You know, that somebody
would want to torture
712
00:32:36,813 --> 00:32:40,407
And hurt somebody that badly,
to be that ruthless,
713
00:32:40,483 --> 00:32:42,450
You know, to want to cause
somebody else's pain,
714
00:32:42,461 --> 00:32:44,869
It's just--it's just
really hard to believe
715
00:32:44,946 --> 00:32:46,630
That somebody
would even do that.
716
00:32:46,707 --> 00:32:48,873
♪ ♪
717
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:50,300
Whether we could hear or not,
718
00:32:50,377 --> 00:32:51,876
We still knew when he was
coming in and out.
719
00:32:51,953 --> 00:32:54,421
The garage was right next
to where the basement is.
720
00:32:54,497 --> 00:32:56,423
You know,
when he start the engine,
721
00:32:56,499 --> 00:32:58,758
You know, the basement floor
would vibrate.
722
00:32:58,835 --> 00:33:02,637
♪ ♪
723
00:33:02,648 --> 00:33:05,890
Me and sandra
were in the basement.
724
00:33:05,967 --> 00:33:09,310
I could hear people
walking up above us.
725
00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:11,271
And then we can hear
another girl
726
00:33:11,306 --> 00:33:13,606
Coming down the steps, crying.
727
00:33:13,641 --> 00:33:17,828
He puts the shackles
around her ankles and stuff.
728
00:33:17,904 --> 00:33:20,780
He introduced her--
"this is lisa."
729
00:33:20,815 --> 00:33:23,825
- And he took me
down the cellar,
730
00:33:23,836 --> 00:33:25,785
And I seen
all these bags, right?
731
00:33:25,820 --> 00:33:27,504
I thought there were
body parts in there.
732
00:33:27,581 --> 00:33:29,414
I said, "don't kill me,
don't kill me."
733
00:33:29,491 --> 00:33:30,623
He said,
"no, I'm not gonna kill you.
734
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:32,342
Trust me,
I'm not gonna kill you."
735
00:33:32,419 --> 00:33:34,335
♪ ♪
736
00:33:34,346 --> 00:33:36,671
- Lisa thomas was
one of the younger women.
737
00:33:36,682 --> 00:33:38,173
She was 19, I believe.
738
00:33:38,183 --> 00:33:42,635
I don't know
why he picked her out.
739
00:33:42,712 --> 00:33:45,305
- Lisa thomas,
she was streetwise.
740
00:33:45,381 --> 00:33:46,848
- She says
she was not a prostitute.
741
00:33:46,859 --> 00:33:48,358
I'll take her at her word.
742
00:33:48,435 --> 00:33:50,643
He pulled up in the flashy car,
743
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,363
Asked her to get in,
took her shopping.
744
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,365
But getting in that car
745
00:33:55,442 --> 00:33:58,818
Was the worst decision
she ever made.
746
00:33:58,895 --> 00:34:01,488
Maybe she thought that this guy
was paying attention to her
747
00:34:01,564 --> 00:34:03,615
And buying her things
and liked her.
748
00:34:03,691 --> 00:34:04,949
Nobody really knows.
749
00:34:05,026 --> 00:34:06,701
She willingly had sex with him,
750
00:34:06,712 --> 00:34:08,870
And then the next thing
you know, she wakes up,
751
00:34:08,881 --> 00:34:12,332
And she's tied with the rest
of the women in his basement.
752
00:34:12,408 --> 00:34:18,388
♪ ♪
753
00:34:22,635 --> 00:34:25,345
[dramatic music]
754
00:34:25,421 --> 00:34:27,013
♪ ♪
755
00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:29,015
- After lisa got there,
756
00:34:29,092 --> 00:34:30,809
He came down,
and he put her in the hole.
757
00:34:30,885 --> 00:34:33,686
And at that point,
it was really only enough room
758
00:34:33,721 --> 00:34:37,398
For two people still to be
in the hole at one time.
759
00:34:37,409 --> 00:34:38,742
Three people wouldn't fit.
760
00:34:38,819 --> 00:34:41,861
So then it got that
sandra and lisa
761
00:34:41,896 --> 00:34:44,656
Would be the two
to stay in the hole
762
00:34:44,732 --> 00:34:46,533
And I would just be
in the basement
763
00:34:46,609 --> 00:34:48,910
'cause he couldn't fit me
in there.
764
00:34:48,921 --> 00:34:52,539
- Once he had multiple victims
in his basement,
765
00:34:52,615 --> 00:34:54,749
He would sort of set up
this hierarchy,
766
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,377
And he was playing victims
against each other.
767
00:34:57,453 --> 00:35:01,047
Josefina became his favorite
because josefina was the best
768
00:35:01,124 --> 00:35:04,434
At giving him
that kind of adoration,
769
00:35:04,511 --> 00:35:07,428
Reassurance that
he wouldn't be abandoned,
770
00:35:07,439 --> 00:35:10,932
That he was handsome
and sexy and good-looking
771
00:35:10,943 --> 00:35:13,726
And whatever he needed
or wanted.
772
00:35:13,803 --> 00:35:17,280
She realized, "if I give him
what he wants here,
773
00:35:17,357 --> 00:35:20,951
You know,
I can live another day."
774
00:35:21,027 --> 00:35:22,735
- After the first month,
775
00:35:22,770 --> 00:35:25,738
Then he would start taking me
up for a bath,
776
00:35:25,815 --> 00:35:27,574
And those were times
when, you know,
777
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:29,576
He would talk
about different things.
778
00:35:29,652 --> 00:35:32,078
You know,
the more I learned about him
779
00:35:32,113 --> 00:35:35,957
From him speaking to me
and what I learned from sandra,
780
00:35:35,968 --> 00:35:37,917
That gave me
that kind of insight.
781
00:35:37,994 --> 00:35:41,087
If I was more on his side,
782
00:35:41,122 --> 00:35:43,047
It would be more in my favor
783
00:35:43,124 --> 00:35:46,384
To be able to try
to find a way out of here.
784
00:35:46,461 --> 00:35:48,386
You know,
he would talk about things
785
00:35:48,463 --> 00:35:50,480
That he wanted to do
in the future,
786
00:35:50,557 --> 00:35:53,433
And it would just be
these women and these babies.
787
00:35:53,468 --> 00:35:54,934
♪ ♪
788
00:35:55,011 --> 00:35:57,604
- He was trying to get
these girls pregnant.
789
00:35:57,639 --> 00:36:00,732
He wanted to raise
a perfect race
790
00:36:00,808 --> 00:36:03,818
With no influence
from the outside world
791
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:06,112
In his basement.
792
00:36:06,147 --> 00:36:11,001
♪ ♪
793
00:36:11,077 --> 00:36:14,454
- He didn't put us in the hole
every time he went out.
794
00:36:14,489 --> 00:36:16,080
It was basically when
he was going to be gone
795
00:36:16,157 --> 00:36:18,499
For, like, hours.
796
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:20,510
We were just in the basement,
797
00:36:20,587 --> 00:36:22,128
And you could feel
the vibrations in the house,
798
00:36:22,163 --> 00:36:23,630
You know, him walking.
799
00:36:23,665 --> 00:36:26,466
And so we hear
the basement door open,
800
00:36:26,542 --> 00:36:28,760
And I heard struggling.
801
00:36:28,836 --> 00:36:31,137
We all look up, and we can see
the bottom of her legs
802
00:36:31,172 --> 00:36:32,764
Coming down the steps.
803
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,515
And I'm, like, sitting there,
saying to myself,
804
00:36:34,526 --> 00:36:36,809
"oh, my god,
there's another girl."
805
00:36:36,844 --> 00:36:40,021
And then he's introducing us--
"this is deborah dudley."
806
00:36:40,032 --> 00:36:42,532
♪ ♪
807
00:36:42,609 --> 00:36:44,817
- Deborah dudley
was a prostitute
808
00:36:44,894 --> 00:36:48,696
Who easily got
in gary heidnik's fancy car.
809
00:36:48,707 --> 00:36:51,866
Go back to the house,
sex with him.
810
00:36:51,877 --> 00:36:56,162
She's downstairs,
tied up with the rest of them.
811
00:36:56,197 --> 00:36:59,832
- Deborah johnson dudley
was a tough street girl,
812
00:36:59,867 --> 00:37:03,002
A very fiery person.
813
00:37:03,079 --> 00:37:06,798
And she gave him
a lot of fight.
814
00:37:06,874 --> 00:37:09,467
- Deborah dudley
never stopped fighting.
815
00:37:09,544 --> 00:37:11,678
She was very resistant
816
00:37:11,754 --> 00:37:13,888
And always gave gary
a hard time.
817
00:37:13,899 --> 00:37:16,057
- From the beginning,
deborah kept acting up,
818
00:37:16,068 --> 00:37:17,976
And I mean acting up
and acting up
819
00:37:18,052 --> 00:37:20,561
And howling and screaming
and, you know,
820
00:37:20,572 --> 00:37:23,573
Being defiant and rebellious.
821
00:37:23,650 --> 00:37:26,576
♪ ♪
822
00:37:26,653 --> 00:37:30,488
And I remember right after he
had beat her so bad one time,
823
00:37:30,565 --> 00:37:32,824
And I was like, "you know,
well, this is not working,
824
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:34,033
"so why do you want to sit here
825
00:37:34,110 --> 00:37:35,868
"and keep making him
torture you?
826
00:37:35,945 --> 00:37:37,537
"you just really got to
straighten up
827
00:37:37,613 --> 00:37:38,421
And pull this together."
828
00:37:38,498 --> 00:37:40,707
She's like, "why?
Am I gonna die here?"
829
00:37:40,742 --> 00:37:41,941
Absolutely you are
830
00:37:42,018 --> 00:37:46,713
If we keep going in this
direction that you're going in.
831
00:37:46,748 --> 00:37:50,675
♪ ♪
832
00:37:50,752 --> 00:37:53,845
- It was January the 18th.
833
00:37:53,921 --> 00:37:57,056
I was working
on 16th and poplar,
834
00:37:57,091 --> 00:38:00,518
And when I seen
gary heidnik car,
835
00:38:00,595 --> 00:38:03,730
He said, "well, how much
would you charge me?"
836
00:38:03,806 --> 00:38:05,690
It was this other girl,
837
00:38:05,767 --> 00:38:09,569
And me and her was actually
arguing over gary heidnik.
838
00:38:09,604 --> 00:38:11,904
And he ended up picking me.
839
00:38:11,981 --> 00:38:14,240
I got in the car,
and he was like,
840
00:38:14,275 --> 00:38:15,742
"I just want to spend some time
with you,
841
00:38:15,818 --> 00:38:18,420
Talk to you,
take you out to eat."
842
00:38:19,822 --> 00:38:24,542
We had dinner, you know,
and I let my guard down.
843
00:38:24,619 --> 00:38:26,544
So now we leave, he say,
844
00:38:26,621 --> 00:38:28,972
"well, jackie, I got to stop
at the house to take the cake
845
00:38:29,049 --> 00:38:30,798
'cause today is
my daughter birthday."
846
00:38:30,809 --> 00:38:33,143
And I'm like, "okay."
847
00:38:33,219 --> 00:38:36,054
[door opens, creaks]
848
00:38:36,130 --> 00:38:40,600
He got an old video game
that used to be out--"dig dug."
849
00:38:40,676 --> 00:38:42,810
That's the first time
I ever played the game.
850
00:38:42,821 --> 00:38:44,479
He was playing with me.
851
00:38:44,489 --> 00:38:48,107
For some reason, he, like,
slid off, you know,
852
00:38:48,184 --> 00:38:50,777
And I, like,
kept looking back behind me
853
00:38:50,853 --> 00:38:53,946
But not trying to show him
that I was kind of scared.
854
00:38:54,023 --> 00:38:56,157
And out of nowhere, he just...
[exhales sharply]
855
00:38:56,168 --> 00:38:57,992
Grabbed me
from the back of my neck.
856
00:38:58,003 --> 00:38:59,952
♪ ♪
857
00:38:59,987 --> 00:39:01,095
As we fighting,
858
00:39:01,097 --> 00:39:04,674
I see he got some stuff
behind the video game--
859
00:39:04,751 --> 00:39:07,010
Hammers, a pick.
860
00:39:07,087 --> 00:39:09,962
I was trying to get to
one of them to get him.
861
00:39:09,997 --> 00:39:11,681
I wanted him off of me.
862
00:39:11,758 --> 00:39:15,134
We fought and fought,
and he put the handcuffs on
863
00:39:15,169 --> 00:39:19,138
And started guiding me
towards the basement.
864
00:39:19,215 --> 00:39:22,809
♪ ♪
865
00:39:22,844 --> 00:39:25,520
I get down there.
I see three girls.
866
00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:28,022
Some had clothes on,
and some didn't.
867
00:39:28,033 --> 00:39:30,024
One girl, she was crying.
868
00:39:30,035 --> 00:39:32,151
♪ ♪
869
00:39:32,228 --> 00:39:35,655
Gary heidnik put me
in this hole in that basement
870
00:39:35,690 --> 00:39:38,708
And threw these bags on me
and told me he'd be back.
871
00:39:40,862 --> 00:39:43,830
I screamed and screamed
and screamed,
872
00:39:43,906 --> 00:39:46,666
And I remember josefina rivera
coming over there.
873
00:39:46,742 --> 00:39:48,626
She like, "shut up.
I got you.
874
00:39:48,703 --> 00:39:51,879
I'ma get you out of here,
but you got to be patient."
875
00:39:51,890 --> 00:39:54,173
And I be like,
"no, I want to get out now."
876
00:39:54,250 --> 00:39:57,218
- She was 18 years old.
She was really young.
877
00:39:57,229 --> 00:39:59,679
And I don't think
she understood
878
00:39:59,714 --> 00:40:02,723
The severity of the situation.
879
00:40:02,734 --> 00:40:06,569
- He came down.
He stripped me.
880
00:40:06,646 --> 00:40:09,814
Then he started beating me
with a blackjack.
881
00:40:09,891 --> 00:40:12,191
So I was just saying,
"I want to go home."
882
00:40:12,226 --> 00:40:15,912
Anything I could say to him
so he could let me go.
883
00:40:15,989 --> 00:40:17,864
And he wasn't.
884
00:40:17,940 --> 00:40:20,199
I just didn't know
he wasn't letting me go.
885
00:40:20,234 --> 00:40:22,160
♪ ♪
886
00:40:22,236 --> 00:40:25,371
- The day after jackie
got there was my birthday.
887
00:40:25,406 --> 00:40:26,873
And it was, like,
so unbelievable.
888
00:40:26,949 --> 00:40:28,082
I'm like, "really?
889
00:40:28,093 --> 00:40:30,042
I'm really celebrating
my birthday here?"
890
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:33,763
He came back
with food from takeout,
891
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,258
A birthday cake,
and a birthday present.
892
00:40:37,269 --> 00:40:40,261
♪ ♪
893
00:40:40,272 --> 00:40:44,774
They sung "happy birthday."
we ate chinese food.
894
00:40:44,851 --> 00:40:46,017
I opened up a present.
895
00:40:46,093 --> 00:40:47,944
He bought me
a pair of slippers.
896
00:40:48,021 --> 00:40:50,897
I don't think I've had
a birthday party since then.
897
00:40:50,973 --> 00:40:53,733
That made me think that he
went through so much effort,
898
00:40:53,809 --> 00:40:56,068
That he went out and he planned
this whole birthday party,
899
00:40:56,103 --> 00:40:57,945
And I'm like,
"well, you're not gonna do that
900
00:40:57,956 --> 00:41:00,907
For somebody
that you don't like."
901
00:41:00,983 --> 00:41:05,912
I said, "okay, so he has a soft
spot for me, apparently."
902
00:41:05,988 --> 00:41:07,955
♪ ♪
903
00:41:07,966 --> 00:41:10,800
I remember that record
"stand by me" came on,
904
00:41:10,877 --> 00:41:15,129
And he danced with me
on that song "stand by me."
905
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:17,182
Yeah.
[scoffs]
906
00:41:18,793 --> 00:41:20,718
For some reason,
he just thought
907
00:41:20,795 --> 00:41:22,929
That I was on his side
and, you know,
908
00:41:23,005 --> 00:41:26,766
I was standing by him and--
you know what I mean?
909
00:41:26,842 --> 00:41:29,894
So I said, "okay, let me see
what I can do with this,"
910
00:41:29,971 --> 00:41:32,063
But there wasn't
no brilliant plan.
911
00:41:32,139 --> 00:41:34,941
I kind of took everything
on a day-by-day.
912
00:41:34,976 --> 00:41:37,818
You know, I was hoping
that it was going somewhere.
913
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:44,834
♪ ♪
914
00:41:47,822 --> 00:41:50,831
- Everybody had a chain
that was separated,
915
00:41:50,842 --> 00:41:55,294
Like, 30 paces apart
so that it was big enough
916
00:41:55,329 --> 00:41:58,130
Where he can get between us
to have sex,
917
00:41:58,207 --> 00:42:00,466
And we could walk around.
918
00:42:00,501 --> 00:42:03,970
♪ ♪
919
00:42:04,046 --> 00:42:05,204
We would get up.
920
00:42:05,281 --> 00:42:09,141
We didn't know if we was gonna
eat the next day or not.
921
00:42:09,218 --> 00:42:11,143
I mean,
gary heidnik used to tell us
922
00:42:11,220 --> 00:42:14,021
That he gonna give us a glass
of water and some bread.
923
00:42:14,032 --> 00:42:16,699
And we had to work our way up
924
00:42:16,776 --> 00:42:19,860
To getting our clothes, a bed.
925
00:42:19,871 --> 00:42:22,989
I don't think we was meant
to come out of that basement.
926
00:42:23,024 --> 00:42:25,917
He put a grave
in that basement.
927
00:42:27,453 --> 00:42:30,997
I know you're supposed to say
if I accept jesus christ
928
00:42:31,073 --> 00:42:33,383
As my savior,
god will come with you.
929
00:42:33,459 --> 00:42:36,168
Well, I need you now.
We all need you.
930
00:42:36,245 --> 00:42:38,337
So I just picked up the bible
931
00:42:38,372 --> 00:42:41,215
And just started reading
that verse every day.
932
00:42:41,226 --> 00:42:43,718
I thought that was my way
of getting closer to god
933
00:42:43,728 --> 00:42:46,012
And him helping us
out of there.
934
00:42:46,088 --> 00:42:50,233
♪ ♪
935
00:42:54,387 --> 00:42:56,906
[dramatic music]
936
00:42:56,983 --> 00:42:59,191
- The last time jackie saw me
was in the basement.
937
00:42:59,226 --> 00:43:01,986
We never had
that closure part.
938
00:43:02,063 --> 00:43:04,196
To see each other
being all right,
939
00:43:04,273 --> 00:43:06,532
Being able to talk
to each other about, you know,
940
00:43:06,609 --> 00:43:08,492
What happened,
and you haven't said,
941
00:43:08,569 --> 00:43:11,370
"hey, we made it, we're free,"
you know what I'm saying?
942
00:43:11,447 --> 00:43:13,539
And it's, like--
all that was missing.
943
00:43:13,616 --> 00:43:16,876
♪ ♪
944
00:43:16,911 --> 00:43:19,086
- Actually, I'm gonna be
talking to rivera.
945
00:43:19,097 --> 00:43:21,931
I ain't seen her in 30 years.
946
00:43:22,008 --> 00:43:23,116
Me and her got to talk
947
00:43:23,192 --> 00:43:28,179
Because I got a burden
on my shoulder about her,
948
00:43:28,255 --> 00:43:30,181
And it's not a good one.
949
00:43:30,257 --> 00:43:32,183
She took so much from me
950
00:43:32,259 --> 00:43:36,062
That I didn't know
how to forgive her.
951
00:43:36,138 --> 00:43:38,105
- I really--I'm looking forward
to seeing jackie.
952
00:43:38,116 --> 00:43:41,359
I hope I'll be able to make
her feel better, you know,
953
00:43:41,435 --> 00:43:45,237
To make things a little easier
in her mind and in her life.
954
00:43:45,272 --> 00:43:48,574
♪ ♪
955
00:43:48,651 --> 00:43:51,294
Sandra wasn't feeling
all that great,
956
00:43:51,371 --> 00:43:54,080
And she wasn't eating.
957
00:43:54,156 --> 00:43:55,956
Gary thought that
she was pregnant,
958
00:43:55,967 --> 00:44:00,544
And he was constantly
trying to force-feed her.
959
00:44:00,621 --> 00:44:02,421
She wasn't going for it.
960
00:44:02,498 --> 00:44:04,256
I knew she wasn't feeling well,
and I was like,
961
00:44:04,291 --> 00:44:06,217
"sandra, just try
to eat something.
962
00:44:06,293 --> 00:44:08,219
"you know, you don't
have to eat everything,
963
00:44:08,295 --> 00:44:09,595
"but just try to eat something,
964
00:44:09,630 --> 00:44:12,390
You know,
to kind of sustain yourself."
965
00:44:12,466 --> 00:44:14,141
In the frame of mind
that he's in,
966
00:44:14,152 --> 00:44:16,102
He thought
she was being rebellious.
967
00:44:16,178 --> 00:44:17,978
I said, "this is not
going in the direction
968
00:44:17,989 --> 00:44:19,438
It needs to be going on."
969
00:44:19,473 --> 00:44:21,440
And then when he started
punishing her,
970
00:44:21,475 --> 00:44:24,318
I'm like, "oh, my god."
that was really hard for me.
971
00:44:24,329 --> 00:44:28,280
- He locked her up
on the ceiling,
972
00:44:28,315 --> 00:44:30,449
And he tells sandy,
973
00:44:30,484 --> 00:44:31,483
"chew something,"
974
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:34,170
And she wouldn't chew it
fast enough for him.
975
00:44:34,247 --> 00:44:36,622
- So he was kind of forcing
the food in her mouth,
976
00:44:36,699 --> 00:44:39,125
And at the same time,
he was, like, beating her.
977
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,584
You know,
"eat the food, sandra.
978
00:44:40,661 --> 00:44:42,086
Eat it, eat it, eat it."
979
00:44:42,163 --> 00:44:45,423
- So next thing I know,
she went limp.
980
00:44:45,499 --> 00:44:47,633
- And he just put the key
in the handcuff
981
00:44:47,710 --> 00:44:49,427
And just turned it.
982
00:44:49,503 --> 00:44:52,513
And it came off her arm,
and she fell--psh.
983
00:44:52,524 --> 00:44:55,474
♪ ♪
984
00:44:55,509 --> 00:44:57,143
- And I ran over to her,
985
00:44:57,178 --> 00:44:59,186
But he told us
to get away from her.
986
00:44:59,197 --> 00:45:00,363
And he checked her.
987
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,314
- She was gone.
988
00:45:02,349 --> 00:45:04,358
♪ ♪
989
00:45:04,369 --> 00:45:06,193
And he was really upset.
990
00:45:06,204 --> 00:45:09,155
He was like,
"now I lost another baby."
991
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:11,657
♪ ♪
992
00:45:11,734 --> 00:45:16,287
It was just so sad for me,
you know, when sandra died.
993
00:45:16,363 --> 00:45:18,330
I was so brokenhearted.
994
00:45:18,365 --> 00:45:20,124
We, you know,
had a relationship.
995
00:45:20,201 --> 00:45:23,669
We spent many hours
in that hole together.
996
00:45:23,746 --> 00:45:25,504
She's been with me here
from the beginning.
997
00:45:25,581 --> 00:45:27,557
I just thought
that was just the end.
998
00:45:27,633 --> 00:45:30,676
♪ ♪
999
00:45:30,753 --> 00:45:34,138
- I remember when she died,
1000
00:45:34,215 --> 00:45:36,724
It hit gary heidnik so hard
1001
00:45:36,735 --> 00:45:40,311
That rivera told debbie
1002
00:45:40,387 --> 00:45:43,022
To stay
out of gary heidnik way,
1003
00:45:43,057 --> 00:45:47,359
Because gary heidnik blamed
debbie for sandy's death.
1004
00:45:47,436 --> 00:45:50,029
And we didn't understand why.
1005
00:45:50,064 --> 00:45:53,324
But it's whatever
josefina rivera told him.
1006
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,159
She had to put everything on us
1007
00:45:55,236 --> 00:45:57,587
To make it seem like
we was the troublemakers
1008
00:45:57,663 --> 00:46:00,539
And she was just
going with the flow.
1009
00:46:00,616 --> 00:46:04,585
It was just all lies
that she was telling
1010
00:46:04,596 --> 00:46:08,214
For us to get in trouble.
1011
00:46:08,249 --> 00:46:12,343
- He was out to establish
in that hole
1012
00:46:12,419 --> 00:46:16,055
Grandiosity of wanting to be
in control and the master.
1013
00:46:16,090 --> 00:46:18,557
He never saw beyond it
to, like,
1014
00:46:18,592 --> 00:46:22,186
The sheer practicalities
of having that many women,
1015
00:46:22,263 --> 00:46:25,523
You know, in your basement,
trying to take care of them.
1016
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:28,567
"care" is a horrible word
for it.
1017
00:46:28,602 --> 00:46:33,280
- Josefina was the only victim
who was clever enough
1018
00:46:33,291 --> 00:46:36,125
To know that he was constantly
gonna be watching her.
1019
00:46:36,202 --> 00:46:40,120
So josefina
would discipline the girls
1020
00:46:40,131 --> 00:46:41,539
When gary wasn't there.
1021
00:46:41,615 --> 00:46:45,584
She convinced gary heidnik
that she was his ally,
1022
00:46:45,619 --> 00:46:47,127
That she would help him.
1023
00:46:47,138 --> 00:46:53,759
♪ ♪
1024
00:46:53,836 --> 00:46:57,471
- The following day, there was
this horrible, horrible smell
1025
00:46:57,482 --> 00:46:59,765
That I will never forget
in my life.
1026
00:46:59,842 --> 00:47:01,267
It was bad.
1027
00:47:01,343 --> 00:47:04,311
And we could not figure out
what was going on,
1028
00:47:04,322 --> 00:47:08,491
But we know this odor
was consuming the whole house.
1029
00:47:08,568 --> 00:47:10,442
- It smelled awful.
1030
00:47:10,477 --> 00:47:12,161
It's coming from gary's house.
1031
00:47:12,238 --> 00:47:15,239
And my father says,
"it smells like a dead body.
1032
00:47:15,316 --> 00:47:16,782
It's disgusting."
1033
00:47:16,817 --> 00:47:19,785
So we called the police
1034
00:47:19,820 --> 00:47:21,620
Because we couldn't get anybody
1035
00:47:21,655 --> 00:47:24,790
To answer the door
at gary's house.
1036
00:47:24,825 --> 00:47:27,251
An officer came,
1037
00:47:27,328 --> 00:47:30,254
And all of a sudden,
gary's front door opens.
1038
00:47:30,331 --> 00:47:32,673
And it was gary.
1039
00:47:32,684 --> 00:47:37,177
I says,
"gary, what is that smell?"
1040
00:47:37,188 --> 00:47:41,140
He says, "yeah, I burnt
the roast in the oven."
1041
00:47:41,175 --> 00:47:43,309
So the officer left,
1042
00:47:43,344 --> 00:47:46,195
And gary apologized
for the smell,
1043
00:47:46,272 --> 00:47:48,314
And then he went back
in the house,
1044
00:47:48,349 --> 00:47:50,316
And then we went back
in our house.
1045
00:47:50,351 --> 00:47:52,693
♪ ♪
1046
00:47:52,704 --> 00:47:56,155
- Now all of the windows--
he's got them all sealed
1047
00:47:56,190 --> 00:48:00,492
So that these girl can't scream
or know who's walking outside.
1048
00:48:00,569 --> 00:48:02,494
Do you think
one of the cops would say,
1049
00:48:02,529 --> 00:48:05,831
"well, why don't you open the
windows and let the smoke out?"
1050
00:48:05,908 --> 00:48:06,974
No.
1051
00:48:06,976 --> 00:48:11,837
100% satisfied with a guy
who answers the door,
1052
00:48:11,872 --> 00:48:13,672
Closes it behind him,
1053
00:48:13,749 --> 00:48:16,842
Leans against it
as if you're not going inside.
1054
00:48:16,877 --> 00:48:18,561
"I burnt a roast."
1055
00:48:18,638 --> 00:48:22,681
"okay, our work is done here.
Thank you."
1056
00:48:22,716 --> 00:48:24,475
Give me a break.
1057
00:48:24,551 --> 00:48:26,894
He got away with it
for a few more weeks.
1058
00:48:26,905 --> 00:48:29,572
♪ ♪
1059
00:48:29,649 --> 00:48:33,317
- I think that church
gave him cover,
1060
00:48:33,394 --> 00:48:35,361
And that cover worked
to his advantage
1061
00:48:35,437 --> 00:48:38,489
In some of the early reports
'cause police would say,
1062
00:48:38,565 --> 00:48:40,866
"well, we're getting these
reports about this guy,
1063
00:48:40,943 --> 00:48:44,411
"but what we're hearing
is incompatible
1064
00:48:44,422 --> 00:48:48,707
With somebody who's religious,
somebody who's a minister."
1065
00:48:48,742 --> 00:48:52,878
- He would actually have
church services
1066
00:48:52,913 --> 00:48:55,756
On the first floor of his house
1067
00:48:55,767 --> 00:48:59,343
While girls were in
his basement chained together.
1068
00:48:59,420 --> 00:49:02,346
[tense music]
1069
00:49:02,423 --> 00:49:04,848
- Next thing I know,
he came in the basement
1070
00:49:04,925 --> 00:49:08,519
With some rice and dog food.
1071
00:49:08,595 --> 00:49:10,729
That big piece of meat
on there,
1072
00:49:10,764 --> 00:49:13,607
I didn't know what it was.
1073
00:49:13,618 --> 00:49:16,610
And then I realized
that the whole time
1074
00:49:16,621 --> 00:49:19,455
He was upstairs
burning sandy...
1075
00:49:19,532 --> 00:49:22,908
Cooking her
so he can dismember her body.
1076
00:49:22,985 --> 00:49:25,628
It wasn't for her,
I wouldn't be here,
1077
00:49:25,705 --> 00:49:27,705
'cause I ate her.
1078
00:49:27,781 --> 00:49:32,593
♪ ♪
1079
00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:40,551
[dramatic music]
1080
00:49:40,627 --> 00:49:41,885
- In that basement,
1081
00:49:41,962 --> 00:49:43,887
It's a good side
and a bad side.
1082
00:49:43,964 --> 00:49:45,889
I got put on the bad side
1083
00:49:45,966 --> 00:49:49,226
Because I talked
to debbie dudley.
1084
00:49:49,303 --> 00:49:51,562
Every time gary heidnik
came down them steps,
1085
00:49:51,638 --> 00:49:52,771
Josefina would say,
1086
00:49:52,848 --> 00:49:54,490
"jackie and debbie
was doing this,
1087
00:49:54,567 --> 00:49:56,233
Jackie and debbie
was doing that,"
1088
00:49:56,310 --> 00:49:57,660
To the point he believed her.
1089
00:49:57,737 --> 00:50:01,238
He would beat us, beat us.
1090
00:50:01,315 --> 00:50:04,000
She had to tell this man
all this stuff
1091
00:50:04,076 --> 00:50:05,951
For him to come at us,
1092
00:50:05,986 --> 00:50:08,662
So I used to just
look at her, like,
1093
00:50:08,673 --> 00:50:11,248
"why would she do this to us?"
1094
00:50:11,325 --> 00:50:12,842
♪ ♪
1095
00:50:12,918 --> 00:50:15,502
We was planning a way
to get out.
1096
00:50:15,513 --> 00:50:19,506
So we came up with this plan
that because heidnik did trust
1097
00:50:19,517 --> 00:50:21,925
Josefina rivera
more than anybody,
1098
00:50:22,002 --> 00:50:24,261
He would let her go upstairs.
1099
00:50:24,338 --> 00:50:25,929
And she could take baths.
1100
00:50:26,006 --> 00:50:27,931
She walked around in the house.
1101
00:50:28,008 --> 00:50:31,027
Debbie said,
"well, when you go upstairs,
1102
00:50:31,103 --> 00:50:34,480
"you can get a knife,
so when you come downstairs,
1103
00:50:34,556 --> 00:50:37,316
"I'ma be, like,
on my four legs,
1104
00:50:37,351 --> 00:50:39,485
"and we gonna push him over me,
1105
00:50:39,561 --> 00:50:41,820
And we just all gonna
just start fighting him."
1106
00:50:41,855 --> 00:50:45,041
And whatever we had to do
we gonna do
1107
00:50:45,117 --> 00:50:46,876
To get out of there.
1108
00:50:46,952 --> 00:50:48,619
- The girls came up
with a plan
1109
00:50:48,695 --> 00:50:49,953
To get out of the basement.
1110
00:50:50,030 --> 00:50:51,830
What sense does that even make?
1111
00:50:51,865 --> 00:50:54,625
First of all, he doesn't bring
the keys downstairs with him.
1112
00:50:54,701 --> 00:50:57,503
Second of all, the basement
sits on the ground.
1113
00:50:57,538 --> 00:50:59,838
If he's dead, we still can't
get out of here.
1114
00:50:59,915 --> 00:51:01,557
Now we're stuck
with a dead body
1115
00:51:01,634 --> 00:51:03,967
In the midst of everything.
1116
00:51:04,044 --> 00:51:07,721
I mean, the girls came up
with a ridiculous plan.
1117
00:51:07,732 --> 00:51:10,015
You know, I didn't really
let on to anybody
1118
00:51:10,050 --> 00:51:12,735
What my plan was
or what I was doing.
1119
00:51:12,812 --> 00:51:15,979
A lot of times the girls were
trying to cutthroat each other.
1120
00:51:16,056 --> 00:51:17,981
So I knew
I couldn't sit down and say,
1121
00:51:18,058 --> 00:51:19,909
"well, look, we're gonna do
this, or we're gonna do that,
1122
00:51:19,985 --> 00:51:20,910
Or we're gonna do the other,"
1123
00:51:20,986 --> 00:51:24,413
Because then whoever
wants to be in his favor
1124
00:51:24,490 --> 00:51:26,990
Is gonna be telling,
and that's gonna put me back
1125
00:51:27,067 --> 00:51:29,743
To have to start over again,
you know?
1126
00:51:29,754 --> 00:51:34,665
♪ ♪
1127
00:51:34,741 --> 00:51:37,593
And I remember him asking me
about this plan.
1128
00:51:37,670 --> 00:51:40,337
And I said, "yeah, there was
a discussion about that,
1129
00:51:40,414 --> 00:51:42,923
"and I kind of squashed it
because, you know,
1130
00:51:42,934 --> 00:51:44,550
"you didn't bring
the keys downstairs
1131
00:51:44,585 --> 00:51:45,935
To the basement,"
you know what I mean?
1132
00:51:46,011 --> 00:51:48,771
- So, you know,
gary heidnik came downstairs.
1133
00:51:48,848 --> 00:51:51,014
Me and debbie
looked at each other,
1134
00:51:51,091 --> 00:51:53,776
And we knew by the way
he came down them steps,
1135
00:51:53,853 --> 00:51:55,945
He knew what was going on.
1136
00:51:56,021 --> 00:51:58,564
So he sat down in front of us
1137
00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:02,526
And asked us to tell him
about our plan.
1138
00:52:02,603 --> 00:52:04,027
- And he was saying to them,
1139
00:52:04,104 --> 00:52:06,029
"okay, I hear there's
some plans going on
1140
00:52:06,106 --> 00:52:07,573
"with somebody
trying to jump me.
1141
00:52:07,608 --> 00:52:08,958
"but if you knock me out
1142
00:52:09,034 --> 00:52:10,626
"or something happens to me
down here,
1143
00:52:10,703 --> 00:52:12,744
There's no way out
of this basement,"
1144
00:52:12,779 --> 00:52:15,789
Basically, which it wasn't.
1145
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,793
He came downstairs, and he
unchained deborah's chain,
1146
00:52:19,804 --> 00:52:21,753
And he took her upstairs.
1147
00:52:21,788 --> 00:52:23,973
She was up there maybe
five, eight minutes.
1148
00:52:24,049 --> 00:52:25,549
And then she came back down,
1149
00:52:25,626 --> 00:52:26,809
And then
we were all asking her,
1150
00:52:26,886 --> 00:52:29,145
"what's wrong? What's wrong?
What happened? What happened?"
1151
00:52:29,221 --> 00:52:32,806
And she was like,
"oh, he showed me sandra's ribs
1152
00:52:32,817 --> 00:52:34,808
"cooking in a roasting pan
in the oven.
1153
00:52:34,819 --> 00:52:37,987
"he showed me
her body parts in the freezer.
1154
00:52:38,063 --> 00:52:41,490
"and her head was in a pot
on the stove."
1155
00:52:41,567 --> 00:52:44,067
And he was telling her, "well,
if you don't straighten up,
1156
00:52:44,144 --> 00:52:46,570
This is gonna be you, too."
1157
00:52:46,647 --> 00:52:49,990
- Josefina rivera told him
what we was gonna do.
1158
00:52:50,001 --> 00:52:51,950
If we all there together,
1159
00:52:51,985 --> 00:52:55,004
We got to work together
to get out of a situation.
1160
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,173
And now you just messed up
the whole thing.
1161
00:52:57,249 --> 00:52:58,665
And that's how I felt.
1162
00:52:58,676 --> 00:53:05,389
♪ ♪
1163
00:53:07,834 --> 00:53:09,927
- He just said
he was gonna come up
1164
00:53:10,003 --> 00:53:12,095
With a better punishment plan
because, you know,
1165
00:53:12,172 --> 00:53:14,690
The basement is just
out of order, basically--
1166
00:53:14,767 --> 00:53:17,601
Something that he say
he learned in the service.
1167
00:53:17,678 --> 00:53:19,811
- He was gonna torture us
every day
1168
00:53:19,846 --> 00:53:22,531
Until we learned
to stop screaming.
1169
00:53:22,608 --> 00:53:25,701
But rivera was lying on us.
1170
00:53:25,778 --> 00:53:26,960
We not saying nothing,
1171
00:53:26,962 --> 00:53:31,874
But you couldn't him because
rivera was the holy bible.
1172
00:53:31,951 --> 00:53:33,992
And we was the devil.
1173
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:35,953
He had us chained up.
1174
00:53:36,029 --> 00:53:39,215
He filled the hole up
with water...
1175
00:53:39,291 --> 00:53:42,793
And he took wire that he used
to have in the basement,
1176
00:53:42,869 --> 00:53:44,461
And he had stripped it
1177
00:53:44,538 --> 00:53:47,890
And put the wires on the chains
1178
00:53:47,967 --> 00:53:50,559
So we would electrocute
in the water.
1179
00:53:50,636 --> 00:53:53,679
- His thing was, it would
give them an electric jolt,
1180
00:53:53,755 --> 00:53:55,889
Which would make them behave,
1181
00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:57,733
Like some type
of shock therapy.
1182
00:53:57,810 --> 00:54:01,019
And he was like, "okay,"
and then he had me do it.
1183
00:54:01,096 --> 00:54:03,647
♪ ♪
1184
00:54:03,724 --> 00:54:05,574
Now he's making me do it, too.
1185
00:54:05,651 --> 00:54:08,911
He stops, and he goes upstairs.
1186
00:54:08,988 --> 00:54:11,530
♪ ♪
1187
00:54:11,565 --> 00:54:14,083
- And then you felt
the electricity, and I looked,
1188
00:54:14,159 --> 00:54:17,494
And I remember her doing it.
1189
00:54:17,571 --> 00:54:20,038
It was like they was together.
1190
00:54:20,073 --> 00:54:21,590
At some point in time,
1191
00:54:21,667 --> 00:54:24,668
I just thought
they was together.
1192
00:54:24,745 --> 00:54:29,214
- Josefina is trying to gain
gary heidnik's confidence.
1193
00:54:29,249 --> 00:54:31,550
So, yes, she did inflict
1194
00:54:31,585 --> 00:54:33,760
The electrocution
and the electric shocks.
1195
00:54:33,771 --> 00:54:36,680
♪ ♪
1196
00:54:36,757 --> 00:54:38,515
- All I know--
debbie just fell in the water,
1197
00:54:38,592 --> 00:54:39,942
And I lift her up,
and I'm like,
1198
00:54:40,019 --> 00:54:41,685
"something wrong with debbie,"
1199
00:54:41,762 --> 00:54:43,687
So I'm trying
to lift the board up.
1200
00:54:43,764 --> 00:54:45,522
- And I was hollering
for him--
1201
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:48,191
"gary," I said, "jackie is
saying deborah's dead."
1202
00:54:48,268 --> 00:54:50,861
And he comes back downstairs.
1203
00:54:50,937 --> 00:54:53,289
- Heidnik come over there
and slammed it back down
1204
00:54:53,365 --> 00:54:55,073
So I fall back in the water.
1205
00:54:55,108 --> 00:54:56,292
- And he looks.
1206
00:54:56,368 --> 00:54:58,035
Deborah's in the middle,
1207
00:54:58,111 --> 00:55:01,705
And her head--
she's folded over like this.
1208
00:55:01,782 --> 00:55:04,750
♪ ♪
1209
00:55:04,826 --> 00:55:07,919
- Debbie dudley
was on this side of me.
1210
00:55:07,954 --> 00:55:10,973
By now, I knew she was dead.
1211
00:55:11,050 --> 00:55:13,559
Rivera--she killed debbie.
1212
00:55:15,220 --> 00:55:18,764
We all could've got
out of there alive.
1213
00:55:18,799 --> 00:55:22,601
A lot of stuff that she did
she didn't have to do.
1214
00:55:22,636 --> 00:55:27,773
I just thought she took on
her serial killer ideal, too.
1215
00:55:27,808 --> 00:55:30,233
Like, she was the oldest.
1216
00:55:30,310 --> 00:55:32,569
She was supposed to protect us.
1217
00:55:32,646 --> 00:55:35,614
Even though she was
in a bad situation,
1218
00:55:35,690 --> 00:55:37,657
She was still
supposed to protect us.
1219
00:55:37,668 --> 00:55:40,336
- He says, "good, now my
basement can get back to order
1220
00:55:40,412 --> 00:55:42,287
'cause now I got rid
of the troublemaker."
1221
00:55:42,322 --> 00:55:44,340
And we're, like,
just standing there devastated
1222
00:55:44,416 --> 00:55:46,750
Because this girl's body
is now laying
1223
00:55:46,827 --> 00:55:51,254
In the exact spot where
sandra lindsay's body was.
1224
00:55:51,331 --> 00:55:55,675
- Then he give us
a cigarette and a beer
1225
00:55:55,686 --> 00:55:57,603
And a can of dog food.
1226
00:55:59,264 --> 00:56:02,641
Heidnik go into where
the deep freezer was
1227
00:56:02,676 --> 00:56:04,643
And put debbie body in there.
1228
00:56:04,678 --> 00:56:07,938
And I remember
he have rivera over there,
1229
00:56:08,014 --> 00:56:10,866
And she signed
the piece of paper.
1230
00:56:10,943 --> 00:56:12,317
- And he wants me to write,
1231
00:56:12,352 --> 00:56:15,654
"gary heidnik
and josefina rivera
1232
00:56:15,730 --> 00:56:18,865
"electrocuted deborah dudley
by making her sit
1233
00:56:18,876 --> 00:56:21,710
In a pool of water while
we electrocuted her chains."
1234
00:56:21,787 --> 00:56:24,880
And he made me sign it,
and he signed it.
1235
00:56:24,957 --> 00:56:26,289
And he took
that letter upstairs,
1236
00:56:26,366 --> 00:56:29,292
And then he came back down
and took the chains off,
1237
00:56:29,369 --> 00:56:32,629
The shackles off
and told me to go upstairs.
1238
00:56:32,706 --> 00:56:36,133
- That's where gary heidnik
trusted her...
1239
00:56:36,209 --> 00:56:38,009
That she wouldn't snitch
1240
00:56:38,086 --> 00:56:39,970
Because they both
will go to jail
1241
00:56:40,046 --> 00:56:42,013
Because they both
killed someone.
1242
00:56:42,048 --> 00:56:43,348
'cause she killed debbie,
1243
00:56:43,383 --> 00:56:47,018
She got to walk around
the house freely.
1244
00:56:47,053 --> 00:56:48,737
- I was free,
but I wasn't free
1245
00:56:48,814 --> 00:56:51,648
Because these other girls
were still in the basement.
1246
00:56:51,725 --> 00:56:53,233
Even if I get away,
1247
00:56:53,244 --> 00:56:55,026
The first thing he's gonna do
is get rid of them
1248
00:56:55,103 --> 00:56:58,655
'cause that's
all the evidence.
1249
00:56:58,732 --> 00:57:00,323
So, at that point,
1250
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,660
Now he thinks me and him
are on the same side.
1251
00:57:03,737 --> 00:57:05,996
We're both boyfriend
and girlfriend or whatever.
1252
00:57:06,072 --> 00:57:08,039
Now he has somebody
that's on his side
1253
00:57:08,116 --> 00:57:09,833
That's with him in his play.
1254
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:13,095
- And then, like,
maybe three days later,
1255
00:57:13,172 --> 00:57:16,882
He had to get rid
of debbie's body.
1256
00:57:16,917 --> 00:57:18,100
- He calls me downstairs
1257
00:57:18,177 --> 00:57:20,886
And wants me to look
at deborah dudley's body--
1258
00:57:20,921 --> 00:57:24,273
I guess as a reminder
this really could be me.
1259
00:57:24,349 --> 00:57:26,275
And he makes me
look at her body,
1260
00:57:26,351 --> 00:57:27,726
And I'm like, "okay."
1261
00:57:27,802 --> 00:57:29,853
Then he takes her upstairs.
1262
00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:32,022
He puts her in the trunk
of the car.
1263
00:57:32,098 --> 00:57:34,107
[engine turning over]
1264
00:57:34,118 --> 00:57:37,786
Now he's like,
"we're gonna take a ride."
1265
00:57:37,863 --> 00:57:39,070
So now we're driving.
1266
00:57:39,105 --> 00:57:40,906
We go through the toll,
1267
00:57:40,982 --> 00:57:43,125
And we're driving down
this highway.
1268
00:57:43,202 --> 00:57:45,911
And he turns off
on this off-road,
1269
00:57:45,946 --> 00:57:48,038
And it's total woods,
1270
00:57:48,114 --> 00:57:51,800
And it's so freaking quiet.
1271
00:57:51,877 --> 00:57:53,969
I'm like,
"what is this plan all about?
1272
00:57:54,046 --> 00:57:56,296
Is he gonna
leave me out here, too?"
1273
00:57:56,307 --> 00:57:58,757
And so he gets out of the car,
1274
00:57:58,833 --> 00:58:01,143
Opens the trunk.
1275
00:58:01,220 --> 00:58:03,386
And I can hear her body,
frozen body...
1276
00:58:03,463 --> 00:58:06,982
[imitates thud]
hit the trunk.
1277
00:58:07,059 --> 00:58:09,226
I can hear him walking
on the leaves.
1278
00:58:09,302 --> 00:58:11,228
[crunching]
1279
00:58:11,304 --> 00:58:17,326
♪ ♪
1280
00:58:17,402 --> 00:58:21,238
And then it was so quiet
for so long.
1281
00:58:21,314 --> 00:58:25,000
- Josefina wasn't going
to be a victim.
1282
00:58:25,077 --> 00:58:28,453
- She going around
getting girls for him.
1283
00:58:28,488 --> 00:58:32,791
- Just didn't have the time
to make her understand.
1284
00:58:32,867 --> 00:58:35,010
- Well, would you like me to
put you in a ----ing basement?
1285
00:58:35,087 --> 00:58:37,846
And then you tell me
if you got a damn choice.
1286
00:58:37,923 --> 00:58:42,267
♪ ♪
1287
00:58:47,598 --> 00:58:49,307
- I remember
after gary heidnik
1288
00:58:49,342 --> 00:58:50,809
Dumped deborah's body,
1289
00:58:50,844 --> 00:58:52,435
We came back to philadelphia,
1290
00:58:52,512 --> 00:58:54,813
And we went
into the mcdonald's.
1291
00:58:54,889 --> 00:58:56,189
He's in this crowded place,
1292
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,275
And he's just reading
the paper, like...
1293
00:58:58,351 --> 00:58:59,943
You know, eating a sandwich.
1294
00:59:00,020 --> 00:59:01,870
It was amazing to me.
I couldn't even believe it.
1295
00:59:01,947 --> 00:59:06,491
How can you sit there so calmly
like nothing ever happened?
1296
00:59:06,526 --> 00:59:09,494
I just got finished dumping
a dead body with you.
1297
00:59:09,529 --> 00:59:12,497
[dramatic music]
1298
00:59:12,532 --> 00:59:14,624
♪ ♪
1299
00:59:14,701 --> 00:59:17,961
After we left there
and we got back to the house,
1300
00:59:18,038 --> 00:59:19,462
He was saying he wanted me
to go with him
1301
00:59:19,539 --> 00:59:21,056
To pick up another girl.
1302
00:59:21,133 --> 00:59:24,175
I'm thinking about this,
and I said, "here's the deal.
1303
00:59:24,252 --> 00:59:26,011
We can go pick up
another girl."
1304
00:59:26,046 --> 00:59:28,305
I said, "but when we get done,"
1305
00:59:28,381 --> 00:59:30,515
I said, "you're gonna take me
to see my family."
1306
00:59:30,592 --> 00:59:33,351
And he went for it.
1307
00:59:33,428 --> 00:59:37,364
We go down front street,
and we run into agnes adams.
1308
00:59:39,059 --> 00:59:42,411
Now, she was from the same
neighborhood that I was from,
1309
00:59:42,487 --> 00:59:45,530
But I did not know her,
but she knew gary.
1310
00:59:45,565 --> 00:59:49,993
- Agnes adams was a little bit
older than some of the girls.
1311
00:59:50,070 --> 00:59:53,538
- She also was
a innocent-projecting person
1312
00:59:53,573 --> 00:59:57,208
That had turned
to a life on the street.
1313
00:59:57,285 --> 01:00:00,337
- Gary heidnik had a previous
relationship with her,
1314
01:00:00,413 --> 01:00:02,672
In the sense that
he would pay her for sex,
1315
01:00:02,749 --> 01:00:05,175
So it wasn't that difficult
to lure her back there.
1316
01:00:05,251 --> 01:00:07,269
♪ ♪
1317
01:00:07,346 --> 01:00:09,012
- Them two went upstairs
to the bedroom.
1318
01:00:09,089 --> 01:00:10,889
I was sitting there
in the living room on a couch.
1319
01:00:10,965 --> 01:00:13,016
They weren't up there
but, like, three minutes.
1320
01:00:13,093 --> 01:00:15,268
- We overheard
the conversation.
1321
01:00:15,279 --> 01:00:18,447
She going around
getting girls for him.
1322
01:00:18,523 --> 01:00:20,231
Rivera went and got her
1323
01:00:20,266 --> 01:00:23,026
And brought her
in that basement.
1324
01:00:23,103 --> 01:00:25,403
When agnes came downstairs,
1325
01:00:25,438 --> 01:00:28,406
She was yelling and screaming
like everybody else,
1326
01:00:28,441 --> 01:00:30,408
And he put her in that hole.
1327
01:00:30,443 --> 01:00:32,410
- I remember I came down
them couple steps
1328
01:00:32,487 --> 01:00:34,579
And leaned over the bannister,
and they all looked up at me.
1329
01:00:34,614 --> 01:00:36,915
Expression on their faces--
1330
01:00:36,991 --> 01:00:40,585
It was breaking my heart,
because I couldn't say to them,
1331
01:00:40,662 --> 01:00:42,379
Only reason why I didn't run
1332
01:00:42,455 --> 01:00:44,214
Was the fact
that they were still there.
1333
01:00:44,290 --> 01:00:46,308
- He gave her back her wig.
1334
01:00:46,385 --> 01:00:49,552
She had
a brown leather jacket, like--
1335
01:00:49,629 --> 01:00:51,262
I think he bought her
an outfit.
1336
01:00:51,297 --> 01:00:53,056
I'm not sure.
1337
01:00:53,133 --> 01:00:55,433
So I thought they was
in cahoots together.
1338
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:59,104
After I seen that,
I had no more love for rivera.
1339
01:00:59,139 --> 01:01:01,439
I would've never went
and got one of my girlfriends,
1340
01:01:01,516 --> 01:01:03,608
Then bring her
in the basement with me.
1341
01:01:03,643 --> 01:01:04,943
No.
1342
01:01:05,019 --> 01:01:07,946
- Josefina--
she saw that he killed
1343
01:01:08,022 --> 01:01:10,573
Two people in that basement.
1344
01:01:10,650 --> 01:01:12,617
She wasn't going
to be a victim.
1345
01:01:12,694 --> 01:01:16,746
She did whatever was necessary
for survival mode.
1346
01:01:16,823 --> 01:01:20,458
She convinced gary heidnik
that she was his ally,
1347
01:01:20,493 --> 01:01:22,085
That she would help him.
1348
01:01:22,162 --> 01:01:24,129
♪ ♪
1349
01:01:24,164 --> 01:01:25,755
- She was the one
that was best
1350
01:01:25,832 --> 01:01:27,632
At giving him
what he really wanted.
1351
01:01:27,667 --> 01:01:29,300
You know,
even if it was an illusion,
1352
01:01:29,377 --> 01:01:32,637
Even if josefina was faking
to save her own life,
1353
01:01:32,672 --> 01:01:35,014
For heidnik, he believed it.
1354
01:01:35,025 --> 01:01:38,643
He knew that she was not
an escape risk
1355
01:01:38,678 --> 01:01:41,187
Like the others would be,
1356
01:01:41,198 --> 01:01:44,023
That he didn't have to worry
about her escaping.
1357
01:01:44,034 --> 01:01:46,651
"this person adores me.
I'm a god, a sex god."
1358
01:01:46,728 --> 01:01:49,371
♪ ♪
1359
01:01:49,448 --> 01:01:52,365
- After we got back
to the house with agnes adams,
1360
01:01:52,376 --> 01:01:54,659
I said, "well, I guess we're
gonna go see our family now,"
1361
01:01:54,694 --> 01:01:57,120
And he said,
"yeah, okay, we can do that."
1362
01:01:57,197 --> 01:02:00,290
I said,
"but I can't take you with me
1363
01:02:00,366 --> 01:02:03,126
"'cause I've been gone
for so long
1364
01:02:03,203 --> 01:02:05,503
That they're gonna have
way too many questions."
1365
01:02:05,538 --> 01:02:07,672
I said, "they might even be,
like, upset with you
1366
01:02:07,707 --> 01:02:09,466
"because I haven't been
in touch with them.
1367
01:02:09,542 --> 01:02:13,303
"you could wait for me at the
gas station at 6th and girard
1368
01:02:13,379 --> 01:02:15,472
"because I only live
down the street.
1369
01:02:15,548 --> 01:02:17,807
"and I'll go down there
and talk to them,
1370
01:02:17,884 --> 01:02:20,393
And then I'll bring you
down there and introduce you."
1371
01:02:20,404 --> 01:02:23,071
♪ ♪
1372
01:02:23,148 --> 01:02:25,648
Get into the gas station,
and I'm, like,
1373
01:02:25,725 --> 01:02:28,234
Saying to myself, "okay,
I know there's a phone booth
1374
01:02:28,245 --> 01:02:30,487
At 6th and thompson."
I knew that.
1375
01:02:30,563 --> 01:02:33,364
So I knew I had to get
from 6th and girard
1376
01:02:33,399 --> 01:02:35,366
To 6th and thompson.
1377
01:02:35,401 --> 01:02:37,586
He went with it.
He went for it.
1378
01:02:37,662 --> 01:02:41,664
You know, and I'm walking away
from his car down 6th street.
1379
01:02:41,741 --> 01:02:43,041
I'm saying to myself,
1380
01:02:43,076 --> 01:02:45,043
"oh, my god,
is this gonna work?
1381
01:02:45,078 --> 01:02:47,545
"is he gonna get out the car
and go walk to the corner
1382
01:02:47,622 --> 01:02:49,172
To see where I'm going?"
1383
01:02:49,249 --> 01:02:53,384
And then when I get to
the phone booth and I call...
1384
01:02:53,461 --> 01:02:55,720
The cops--
they don't believe me.
1385
01:02:55,797 --> 01:02:57,680
I keep trying to stress to them
on the phone--
1386
01:02:57,757 --> 01:02:58,957
It's a time limit.
1387
01:02:59,034 --> 01:03:01,726
I said, "I don't want him to
get back there and, you know,
1388
01:03:01,761 --> 01:03:04,354
Hurt these other girls because
he thinks I'm not coming back."
1389
01:03:04,430 --> 01:03:07,357
So, when the paddy wagon
finally gets there
1390
01:03:07,433 --> 01:03:08,733
And they're, like,
looking at me
1391
01:03:08,768 --> 01:03:10,527
Like I just completely
lost my mind.
1392
01:03:10,603 --> 01:03:13,196
♪ ♪
1393
01:03:13,273 --> 01:03:16,366
My whole intent always was
to make sure that I was free
1394
01:03:16,442 --> 01:03:18,201
And these girls
were safe as well.
1395
01:03:18,278 --> 01:03:21,621
And now we are so close
to being free that--
1396
01:03:21,632 --> 01:03:23,540
It's, like, so--
it's, like, right there
1397
01:03:23,616 --> 01:03:26,251
But you can't reach it.
1398
01:03:26,327 --> 01:03:29,462
- We just happened to be
the first one on the scene,
1399
01:03:29,473 --> 01:03:31,589
And...
1400
01:03:31,666 --> 01:03:34,142
It was one bizarre story.
1401
01:03:34,219 --> 01:03:37,762
Josefina approached us,
said she was held captive,
1402
01:03:37,797 --> 01:03:41,316
Chained up, beaten,
raped repeatedly...
1403
01:03:41,393 --> 01:03:43,268
And that there was
other females
1404
01:03:43,303 --> 01:03:44,736
Being held in the house.
1405
01:03:46,306 --> 01:03:48,106
I was a little skeptical.
1406
01:03:48,182 --> 01:03:50,233
I asked her,
"are you a hooker?"
1407
01:03:50,310 --> 01:03:51,176
She said, "yes."
1408
01:03:51,252 --> 01:03:52,777
I said,
"well, what's this all about?
1409
01:03:52,812 --> 01:03:54,904
You didn't get paid
or something?"
1410
01:03:54,981 --> 01:03:57,657
And she said, "no,
you really have to help me."
1411
01:03:57,668 --> 01:03:59,576
She was visibly shaken.
1412
01:03:59,652 --> 01:04:01,452
And she said,
"he's gonna go back,
1413
01:04:01,529 --> 01:04:04,622
And he's gonna
kill them girls."
1414
01:04:04,699 --> 01:04:07,458
- It was really
a hectic 15 minutes.
1415
01:04:07,493 --> 01:04:09,419
I'm telling them
the same exact story again,
1416
01:04:09,495 --> 01:04:11,129
And I'm telling them
about the shackles.
1417
01:04:11,164 --> 01:04:13,464
And then the officer that was
on the passenger side said,
1418
01:04:13,499 --> 01:04:16,134
"lift up your pants' leg,"
and I lift up my pants' leg,
1419
01:04:16,210 --> 01:04:18,261
And you can see the marks
from the muffler clamps.
1420
01:04:18,338 --> 01:04:22,807
- There was obvious bruising
where she was chained up.
1421
01:04:22,842 --> 01:04:25,643
With that,
I knew that this is for real.
1422
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:27,687
We're gonna go down
and check it out.
1423
01:04:27,698 --> 01:04:30,148
If he's there,
I'll call you down,
1424
01:04:30,224 --> 01:04:32,275
And you can identify him.
1425
01:04:32,352 --> 01:04:33,651
- They said,
"you stay right here.
1426
01:04:33,728 --> 01:04:35,612
We're gonna send
another officer."
1427
01:04:35,688 --> 01:04:37,530
[sirens wailing]
1428
01:04:37,541 --> 01:04:39,490
- We pulled up
directly behind him
1429
01:04:39,525 --> 01:04:42,285
So that he couldn't pull out,
he couldn't get away.
1430
01:04:42,362 --> 01:04:43,620
We placed him under arrest.
1431
01:04:43,696 --> 01:04:45,663
♪ ♪
1432
01:04:45,698 --> 01:04:47,165
- I go up to the paddy wagon.
1433
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,167
They opened the doors,
and it's him.
1434
01:04:49,202 --> 01:04:51,336
And he just had this look
on his face like,
1435
01:04:51,371 --> 01:04:52,962
"I really should've got rid
of this bitch
1436
01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:55,173
When I had a chance."
1437
01:04:55,208 --> 01:04:56,507
He was not a happy camper.
1438
01:04:56,584 --> 01:04:58,843
♪ ♪
1439
01:04:58,878 --> 01:05:01,471
- After taking gary
into custody,
1440
01:05:01,547 --> 01:05:05,391
We transported josefina rivera
to special victims
1441
01:05:05,402 --> 01:05:07,477
For further investigation.
1442
01:05:07,553 --> 01:05:09,520
- The 26th district officers
1443
01:05:09,597 --> 01:05:12,315
Had gone
to east detective division
1444
01:05:12,392 --> 01:05:13,691
And the homicide division,
1445
01:05:13,726 --> 01:05:16,653
And they did not choose
to investigate it.
1446
01:05:16,729 --> 01:05:20,365
But the 26th district officers
were persistent,
1447
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,867
And we were sort of
the last people to come to.
1448
01:05:22,902 --> 01:05:24,827
My sergeant actually came
to me,
1449
01:05:24,904 --> 01:05:29,207
And he told me with, you know,
some question in his voice,
1450
01:05:29,242 --> 01:05:30,875
"this is a job that's come in.
1451
01:05:30,910 --> 01:05:33,336
I want you
to interview this woman."
1452
01:05:33,413 --> 01:05:37,599
As bizarre as a story
as it was, she was credible,
1453
01:05:37,676 --> 01:05:40,218
And I believed her.
1454
01:05:40,294 --> 01:05:42,345
♪ ♪
1455
01:05:42,422 --> 01:05:46,608
What really set in for me
was that she kept asking,
1456
01:05:46,685 --> 01:05:49,018
"is someone gonna go back
for the other women?"
1457
01:05:49,095 --> 01:05:51,613
♪ ♪
1458
01:05:51,690 --> 01:05:54,232
- Finally, I got
their attention enough
1459
01:05:54,267 --> 01:05:57,235
For them to go
and see what was going on.
1460
01:05:57,270 --> 01:06:03,583
♪ ♪
1461
01:06:13,619 --> 01:06:15,804
- The door was forced open,
1462
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,882
And once inside, I noticed
everything that made sound
1463
01:06:19,959 --> 01:06:21,884
Was turned full volume.
1464
01:06:21,961 --> 01:06:25,722
Tvs were blasting.
Radios were blasting.
1465
01:06:25,798 --> 01:06:28,599
The heat was turned up
to about 90 degrees.
1466
01:06:28,634 --> 01:06:30,777
[door creaks]
1467
01:06:34,399 --> 01:06:35,565
- I wake lisa up.
1468
01:06:35,641 --> 01:06:37,442
Like, "lisa, somebody upstairs.
1469
01:06:37,477 --> 01:06:38,484
You hear it?"
1470
01:06:38,495 --> 01:06:40,903
♪ ♪
1471
01:06:40,980 --> 01:06:43,448
The cops coming down the steps,
I swear to god,
1472
01:06:43,524 --> 01:06:46,784
It was this black, black cop
with pink lips.
1473
01:06:46,861 --> 01:06:49,454
I leaped over to him,
like, to say,
1474
01:06:49,530 --> 01:06:52,790
"you the most 'beautifulest'
thing in the world."
1475
01:06:52,825 --> 01:06:54,417
- I came down the steps.
1476
01:06:54,494 --> 01:06:58,346
I see these three women
chained and shackled.
1477
01:06:58,423 --> 01:07:01,850
♪ ♪
1478
01:07:01,926 --> 01:07:03,801
- They were beat
from the waist down.
1479
01:07:03,878 --> 01:07:07,638
They all had visible bruising,
weeping wounds.
1480
01:07:07,673 --> 01:07:09,515
They were scared to death.
1481
01:07:09,526 --> 01:07:10,975
- They were naked,
1482
01:07:11,010 --> 01:07:12,643
Just exposed.
1483
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:13,978
It was just...
1484
01:07:14,013 --> 01:07:16,698
I asked the officers
to go get blankets
1485
01:07:16,775 --> 01:07:18,366
So they could be covered.
1486
01:07:18,443 --> 01:07:20,535
♪ ♪
1487
01:07:20,612 --> 01:07:24,447
The sight of those three women
was horrible to me.
1488
01:07:24,524 --> 01:07:26,657
It makes me angry still, still.
1489
01:07:26,692 --> 01:07:28,826
[scoffs]
believe it or not, but, yeah.
1490
01:07:28,861 --> 01:07:35,300
♪ ♪
1491
01:07:39,204 --> 01:07:40,463
[sirens wailing]
1492
01:07:40,540 --> 01:07:42,465
- Heidnik's house of horrors
1493
01:07:42,542 --> 01:07:45,009
Where he kept six women
in chains in his basement.
1494
01:07:45,044 --> 01:07:46,719
- Captive women
had been imprisoned
1495
01:07:46,730 --> 01:07:48,012
As long as four months
1496
01:07:48,047 --> 01:07:51,182
And fed dog food, bread,
and water.
1497
01:07:51,259 --> 01:07:53,643
- Police say that they were led
to heidnik's house by a woman
1498
01:07:53,719 --> 01:07:56,562
Who told them that she had
escaped from the basement.
1499
01:07:56,573 --> 01:08:00,525
[dramatic music]
1500
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:01,734
- All hell let loose,
1501
01:08:01,745 --> 01:08:03,820
And the police knocked in
gary's door.
1502
01:08:03,896 --> 01:08:07,031
Everybody woke up to watch
what was going on.
1503
01:08:07,066 --> 01:08:10,493
I was floored.
I couldn't believe it.
1504
01:08:10,570 --> 01:08:13,496
And then all the noises,
all the sounds
1505
01:08:13,573 --> 01:08:14,923
All came together
1506
01:08:14,999 --> 01:08:17,500
When you found out
what actually happened.
1507
01:08:17,577 --> 01:08:20,545
♪ ♪
1508
01:08:20,580 --> 01:08:22,547
It was around 7:00
in the morning
1509
01:08:22,582 --> 01:08:24,933
When they finally brought
the girls out of the house.
1510
01:08:25,009 --> 01:08:27,593
- And, like, the whole street
1511
01:08:27,604 --> 01:08:29,178
Was cheering for us,
1512
01:08:29,255 --> 01:08:30,888
So it kind of made me
feel like,
1513
01:08:30,965 --> 01:08:33,599
"how are y'all cheering for us,
1514
01:08:33,610 --> 01:08:35,935
"and y'all didn't even know
we was in the basement,
1515
01:08:35,946 --> 01:08:38,613
"and this man was doing
what he was doing to us?
1516
01:08:38,690 --> 01:08:40,690
"how y'all not hear it?
1517
01:08:40,766 --> 01:08:42,617
Y'all live
right next door to him."
1518
01:08:42,694 --> 01:08:49,374
♪ ♪
1519
01:08:52,629 --> 01:08:54,912
- The women were transported
to episcopal hospital,
1520
01:08:54,947 --> 01:08:58,583
Where they were evaluated
and treated.
1521
01:08:58,659 --> 01:09:01,919
- When I got to the hospital,
I was only 46 pounds.
1522
01:09:01,996 --> 01:09:04,630
♪ ♪
1523
01:09:04,641 --> 01:09:06,257
I had to put the weight
back on me.
1524
01:09:06,334 --> 01:09:08,092
I had to get my muscles back.
1525
01:09:08,127 --> 01:09:10,094
I had to learn
how to walk again.
1526
01:09:10,129 --> 01:09:13,723
Like, I had so much work to do
with these doctors,
1527
01:09:13,799 --> 01:09:15,600
And they had to help me,
1528
01:09:15,676 --> 01:09:18,436
'cause I was like a little bone
1529
01:09:18,512 --> 01:09:21,772
Walking around with skin
slapped on them.
1530
01:09:21,807 --> 01:09:23,816
- I conducted the interviews
of the women
1531
01:09:23,827 --> 01:09:25,818
At episcopal hospital,
1532
01:09:25,829 --> 01:09:28,613
And we went back
and processed the scene.
1533
01:09:28,648 --> 01:09:30,281
♪ ♪
1534
01:09:30,316 --> 01:09:34,660
In the kitchen, we found...
1535
01:09:34,671 --> 01:09:37,580
Body parts in the freezer.
1536
01:09:37,657 --> 01:09:41,918
- It was about a 20-quart
aluminum pot on the stove.
1537
01:09:41,994 --> 01:09:43,845
It had crusting around it.
1538
01:09:43,922 --> 01:09:46,130
And inside the oven,
1539
01:09:46,165 --> 01:09:50,760
There was what looked like
a rib and a braid of hair.
1540
01:09:50,836 --> 01:09:52,595
Really shook me up
a little bit,
1541
01:09:52,672 --> 01:09:54,138
And I became nauseous.
1542
01:09:54,173 --> 01:09:56,807
The whole story came together.
1543
01:09:56,842 --> 01:10:00,144
This guy was cooking
a human body
1544
01:10:00,179 --> 01:10:01,979
In that kitchen.
1545
01:10:02,014 --> 01:10:03,940
Thank god we followed up
on this.
1546
01:10:04,016 --> 01:10:05,775
If we didn't, you know,
1547
01:10:05,851 --> 01:10:08,152
Who knows what would've
happened to these women?
1548
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:12,615
You know, they--they most
likely would've been dead.
1549
01:10:12,692 --> 01:10:15,034
- You think you'd see
in a video movie,
1550
01:10:15,045 --> 01:10:16,211
And you hardly
would ever expect
1551
01:10:16,287 --> 01:10:20,715
This to happen in real life,
but, unfortunately, it has.
1552
01:10:20,792 --> 01:10:24,886
♪ ♪
1553
01:10:24,963 --> 01:10:26,837
- Gary's lawyer, chuck peruto,
1554
01:10:26,872 --> 01:10:29,173
Came by gary's house
a couple times,
1555
01:10:29,208 --> 01:10:31,008
Checking out stuff
for his case.
1556
01:10:31,085 --> 01:10:34,971
And I asked him, "mr. Peruto,
what did you do to gary?
1557
01:10:35,047 --> 01:10:39,809
You made him look like manson.
He looks crazy."
1558
01:10:39,885 --> 01:10:42,853
And he goes,
"that's my whole thing."
1559
01:10:42,930 --> 01:10:44,897
- Peruto knew
he wasn't gonna overwhelm
1560
01:10:44,908 --> 01:10:46,574
The facts of this case.
1561
01:10:46,651 --> 01:10:49,568
He'd have to do it
through the insanity defense.
1562
01:10:49,579 --> 01:10:52,863
- The definition
basically says,
1563
01:10:52,898 --> 01:10:55,866
"you don't know right
from wrong."
1564
01:10:55,943 --> 01:10:58,160
So I knew it was
a very uphill battle,
1565
01:10:58,237 --> 01:11:00,088
But the answers
I was getting from him
1566
01:11:00,164 --> 01:11:02,039
Are the answers that I need.
1567
01:11:02,116 --> 01:11:05,042
♪ ♪
1568
01:11:05,077 --> 01:11:07,920
"were you ever hospitalized
before for mental illness?"
1569
01:11:07,931 --> 01:11:09,338
"yes."
1570
01:11:09,415 --> 01:11:13,217
He was given full
social security benefits
1571
01:11:13,294 --> 01:11:14,769
For mental illness,
1572
01:11:14,846 --> 01:11:17,105
That he was incapable
of working.
1573
01:11:17,181 --> 01:11:20,224
That's how much they thought
he was nuts.
1574
01:11:20,301 --> 01:11:23,936
♪ ♪
1575
01:11:23,947 --> 01:11:26,605
- He also trained
as a psychiatric nurse,
1576
01:11:26,616 --> 01:11:31,235
So he knew all the symptoms
to show mental illness.
1577
01:11:31,270 --> 01:11:36,198
And he used that to continue
receiving his disability.
1578
01:11:36,275 --> 01:11:37,908
- And I was trying to find
something that worked
1579
01:11:37,943 --> 01:11:40,244
That would make them
shut up to stop hollering--
1580
01:11:40,279 --> 01:11:41,746
- Aggressive kind of
1581
01:11:41,781 --> 01:11:43,247
Infliction of pain
on these women.
1582
01:11:43,282 --> 01:11:44,799
- I was trying
to find something
1583
01:11:44,876 --> 01:11:45,891
That would make them behave.
1584
01:11:45,893 --> 01:11:48,419
- But it was painful to them.
- I hope so.
1585
01:11:48,496 --> 01:11:50,254
I don't mean I hope so,
but, I mean, yeah,
1586
01:11:50,331 --> 01:11:51,881
That's what I was trying
to achieve,
1587
01:11:51,957 --> 01:11:54,142
You know, to make them behave.
1588
01:11:54,218 --> 01:11:56,761
♪ ♪
1589
01:11:56,796 --> 01:11:58,971
- The best case
I could hope for
1590
01:11:58,982 --> 01:12:00,931
Was not guilty
by reason of insanity.
1591
01:12:00,966 --> 01:12:03,225
That's almost unattainable.
1592
01:12:03,302 --> 01:12:05,936
I wanted to beat
the death penalty, personally.
1593
01:12:05,971 --> 01:12:08,990
So I was hoping
for third-degree murder.
1594
01:12:09,067 --> 01:12:11,108
♪ ♪
1595
01:12:11,185 --> 01:12:12,943
- In the state
of pennsylvania,
1596
01:12:12,978 --> 01:12:14,779
You can only get
the death penalty
1597
01:12:14,814 --> 01:12:16,781
If it's first-degree murder
and you prove it.
1598
01:12:16,816 --> 01:12:19,116
♪ ♪
1599
01:12:19,193 --> 01:12:21,285
- When josefina testified
at the preliminary hearing,
1600
01:12:21,362 --> 01:12:24,288
I saw an opening
to convince the jury
1601
01:12:24,365 --> 01:12:25,998
On second-
and third-degree murder.
1602
01:12:26,009 --> 01:12:29,001
Heidnik trusted her,
1603
01:12:29,012 --> 01:12:31,128
And he trusted her
for a reason.
1604
01:12:31,163 --> 01:12:34,965
She did a good sell job
on making him believe,
1605
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,259
"hey, you've converted me.
I'm with you."
1606
01:12:37,336 --> 01:12:40,304
And I wanted to use that
against her in the trial.
1607
01:12:40,339 --> 01:12:46,977
♪ ♪
1608
01:12:47,012 --> 01:12:50,481
- And the trial
went on for two weeks.
1609
01:12:50,516 --> 01:12:55,319
I was very concerned about the
four surviving young ladies
1610
01:12:55,396 --> 01:12:58,030
Coming in and telling
about these traumatic,
1611
01:12:58,041 --> 01:13:00,032
Horrendous acts
that happened to them.
1612
01:13:00,043 --> 01:13:02,284
♪ ♪
1613
01:13:02,361 --> 01:13:04,787
- I tried to convince the jury
1614
01:13:04,864 --> 01:13:06,705
That she was in on it
with heidnik
1615
01:13:06,716 --> 01:13:08,833
And she was feeding
a sick mind,
1616
01:13:08,868 --> 01:13:09,792
That she was letting him know
1617
01:13:09,869 --> 01:13:13,337
What he was doing was proper,
it was okay,
1618
01:13:13,372 --> 01:13:16,006
So it gave him that
corroboration that he needed.
1619
01:13:16,083 --> 01:13:18,843
♪ ♪
1620
01:13:18,919 --> 01:13:21,137
I befriended
the other three girls
1621
01:13:21,213 --> 01:13:23,305
Out in the hallway
at city hall.
1622
01:13:23,382 --> 01:13:25,724
I got them to agree with me
1623
01:13:25,735 --> 01:13:28,319
That josefina
is as bad as heidnik.
1624
01:13:29,739 --> 01:13:31,981
- It really baffled me,
because I'm like,
1625
01:13:32,057 --> 01:13:34,909
"I risked my life
to save yours.
1626
01:13:34,986 --> 01:13:37,027
And now you're trying
to throw me under the bus?"
1627
01:13:37,062 --> 01:13:39,905
You know what I mean?
1628
01:13:39,916 --> 01:13:43,200
- In the juror interviews
who later spoke,
1629
01:13:43,235 --> 01:13:46,087
They believed that josefina
was more culpable
1630
01:13:46,164 --> 01:13:47,872
Than was presented,
1631
01:13:47,907 --> 01:13:49,540
But she wasn't
the one on trial.
1632
01:13:49,575 --> 01:13:51,750
♪ ♪
1633
01:13:51,761 --> 01:13:55,004
- She wasn't charged
with nothing that happened.
1634
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,214
[camera shutters clicking,
indistinct chatter]
1635
01:13:57,291 --> 01:14:01,260
- I wasn't as concerned about
the proof that he was sane
1636
01:14:01,271 --> 01:14:03,095
Because I thought
it was overwhelming.
1637
01:14:03,106 --> 01:14:05,264
♪ ♪
1638
01:14:05,275 --> 01:14:06,932
- Charlie called
these witnesses.
1639
01:14:06,943 --> 01:14:08,350
They all testified against him.
1640
01:14:08,427 --> 01:14:11,270
They had no reason to believe,
1641
01:14:11,281 --> 01:14:13,397
They had no hint,
they had no suspicion
1642
01:14:13,432 --> 01:14:15,733
That he was crazy.
1643
01:14:15,809 --> 01:14:17,902
Charlie gallagher
presented that evidence
1644
01:14:17,978 --> 01:14:22,239
In a slow, methodical,
and organized fashion.
1645
01:14:22,274 --> 01:14:23,949
"if this guy is so crazy,
1646
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:27,411
"how was he able to negotiate
the sale price of a cadillac?
1647
01:14:27,446 --> 01:14:31,916
"how was he able to call
his own stock for purchases
1648
01:14:31,992 --> 01:14:38,473
And turn $20,000 into $680,000
almost overnight?"
1649
01:14:39,976 --> 01:14:42,426
- I actually disagree
with jack apsche,
1650
01:14:42,461 --> 01:14:46,430
The psychologist on the defense
team at the time of the trial.
1651
01:14:46,465 --> 01:14:50,151
♪ ♪
1652
01:14:50,228 --> 01:14:53,270
Don't really see gary heidnik
being so psychotic
1653
01:14:53,305 --> 01:14:55,323
That he didn't know right
from wrong.
1654
01:14:55,399 --> 01:14:58,275
♪ ♪
1655
01:14:58,310 --> 01:15:00,236
- I think the jury was out
1656
01:15:00,312 --> 01:15:02,821
For maybe two days
on the verdict phase.
1657
01:15:02,832 --> 01:15:04,281
And then they were only out
1658
01:15:04,358 --> 01:15:06,951
For maybe 45 minutes
to an hour,
1659
01:15:07,027 --> 01:15:10,996
And the jury handed down
a death sentence.
1660
01:15:11,007 --> 01:15:14,124
After he was convicted in 1988,
1661
01:15:14,159 --> 01:15:17,169
He claimed he didn't want
an appeal.
1662
01:15:17,180 --> 01:15:19,847
- He's the last person to be
executed in pennsylvania
1663
01:15:19,924 --> 01:15:21,173
Because he wanted to be.
1664
01:15:21,184 --> 01:15:23,926
♪ ♪
1665
01:15:24,003 --> 01:15:27,137
- I wanted to watch
the execution.
1666
01:15:27,172 --> 01:15:31,308
I was able to get in there
and watched him die.
1667
01:15:31,343 --> 01:15:33,143
It didn't bring no closure.
1668
01:15:33,220 --> 01:15:36,272
♪ ♪
1669
01:15:36,348 --> 01:15:38,032
- I would've preferred
for him to stay in jail
1670
01:15:38,109 --> 01:15:39,984
Because that would've been
more of a suffering.
1671
01:15:40,060 --> 01:15:41,443
But there's never a day
1672
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,988
That I actually feel like
I'm really free from this.
1673
01:15:44,064 --> 01:15:45,864
I don't dwell on it every day,
1674
01:15:45,875 --> 01:15:49,159
But I have way more easier days
than hard days now.
1675
01:15:49,194 --> 01:15:56,166
♪ ♪
1676
01:15:56,201 --> 01:15:58,502
We're gonna meet jackie today,
1677
01:15:58,537 --> 01:16:03,966
Who I haven't seen
in 30-some years.
1678
01:16:04,043 --> 01:16:05,175
I don't know.
1679
01:16:05,252 --> 01:16:07,511
I have mixed emotions,
I guess.
1680
01:16:07,546 --> 01:16:09,638
You know,
I want it to all go well.
1681
01:16:09,715 --> 01:16:13,350
I hope I can put her mind
at peace, at ease.
1682
01:16:13,427 --> 01:16:16,186
I just want her to be well.
[chuckles]
1683
01:16:16,263 --> 01:16:19,064
♪ ♪
1684
01:16:19,075 --> 01:16:21,066
- At the end of the day,
1685
01:16:21,077 --> 01:16:24,320
Philadelphia made her a hero.
1686
01:16:24,396 --> 01:16:26,196
For who? For us?
1687
01:16:26,231 --> 01:16:28,624
No, she wasn't a hero for me.
1688
01:16:30,402 --> 01:16:32,536
I'm yet--after 30 years,
1689
01:16:32,571 --> 01:16:35,539
I'm yet to hear one apology--
just, "I'm sorry."
1690
01:16:35,574 --> 01:16:38,542
♪ ♪
1691
01:16:38,577 --> 01:16:43,172
She was the snake,
lying on us.
1692
01:16:43,248 --> 01:16:44,715
She would tell him
1693
01:16:44,792 --> 01:16:48,218
That we doing certain things
so he can beat us.
1694
01:16:48,295 --> 01:16:50,554
She was there so long
to the point
1695
01:16:50,631 --> 01:16:55,059
That she started
acting like him for real.
1696
01:16:55,094 --> 01:16:56,685
She killed debbie.
1697
01:16:56,762 --> 01:16:59,730
I don't think nobody had
to die to get out of there.
1698
01:16:59,765 --> 01:17:02,566
I can't even tell you
how I'ma feel when I see her.
1699
01:17:02,601 --> 01:17:05,569
I don't know if I'ma run up
to her and start punching her.
1700
01:17:05,604 --> 01:17:08,072
I don't know if I'm gonna
run up to her and hug her.
1701
01:17:08,148 --> 01:17:12,576
All I can tell you is that I'm
willing to take this chance.
1702
01:17:12,611 --> 01:17:16,246
At the end of the day,
this is not about me or her.
1703
01:17:16,281 --> 01:17:17,548
This story bigger than us.
1704
01:17:32,631 --> 01:17:35,599
♪ ♪
1705
01:17:35,634 --> 01:17:38,486
[grunts]
1706
01:17:38,562 --> 01:17:40,154
Oh, over there.
1707
01:17:40,231 --> 01:17:47,078
♪ ♪
1708
01:17:58,523 --> 01:18:01,291
[dramatic music]
1709
01:18:01,326 --> 01:18:05,012
♪ ♪
1710
01:18:05,089 --> 01:18:07,464
- We're gonna meet
jackie today,
1711
01:18:07,499 --> 01:18:11,268
Who I haven't seen
in 30-some years.
1712
01:18:13,097 --> 01:18:16,023
- After 30 years,
I'm yet to hear one apology--
1713
01:18:16,100 --> 01:18:18,475
Just, "I'm sorry."
1714
01:18:18,552 --> 01:18:21,311
She had to tell this man
all this stuff
1715
01:18:21,346 --> 01:18:23,355
For him to come at us.
1716
01:18:23,366 --> 01:18:26,150
He would beat us, beat us.
1717
01:18:26,185 --> 01:18:28,327
Why would she do this to us?
1718
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:38,495
♪ ♪
1719
01:18:38,572 --> 01:18:41,549
- At the end of the day,
it's not about me or her.
1720
01:18:41,625 --> 01:18:44,001
This story bigger than us.
1721
01:18:44,077 --> 01:18:50,299
♪ ♪
1722
01:18:50,375 --> 01:18:52,134
A lot happened since I last--
1723
01:18:52,211 --> 01:18:54,136
- I'm sure we gone through
a whole lot of mess.
1724
01:18:54,213 --> 01:18:56,313
- Yes.
1725
01:18:58,717 --> 01:19:02,519
I ain't gonna lie,
I did have some hate for you.
1726
01:19:02,596 --> 01:19:05,189
I blamed you for a lot of stuff
that happened down there.
1727
01:19:05,265 --> 01:19:06,648
- I'm sure.
1728
01:19:06,725 --> 01:19:08,358
- My reason for being mad
at you
1729
01:19:08,393 --> 01:19:10,402
Had a lot to do
with that basement.
1730
01:19:10,413 --> 01:19:13,414
I didn't understand why--
1731
01:19:13,491 --> 01:19:16,074
A lot of stuff
you did down there.
1732
01:19:16,085 --> 01:19:18,827
You telling heidnik
we was yelling and screaming,
1733
01:19:18,904 --> 01:19:21,589
Making him beat us
more and more.
1734
01:19:21,665 --> 01:19:23,591
That sh-- broke me down.
1735
01:19:23,667 --> 01:19:26,093
My body was so ----ed.
- Yeah.
1736
01:19:26,170 --> 01:19:27,762
- But--and when we got out,
they kept saying,
1737
01:19:27,838 --> 01:19:30,506
"but what about rivera?
She's not on your side.
1738
01:19:30,582 --> 01:19:33,550
She was getting that
lovey-dovey from gary heidnik."
1739
01:19:33,627 --> 01:19:35,844
- I don't know.
I'm not upset about it.
1740
01:19:35,921 --> 01:19:37,387
- When they used to lie--
- because I knew--
1741
01:19:37,422 --> 01:19:39,056
What I needed to do, I did.
1742
01:19:39,132 --> 01:19:40,849
There's a lot
of misinformation there.
1743
01:19:40,926 --> 01:19:42,610
I was only free, like,
two or three days.
1744
01:19:42,686 --> 01:19:44,612
And after I was out of chains,
1745
01:19:44,688 --> 01:19:47,231
I know I purposely made sure
I never came downstairs
1746
01:19:47,266 --> 01:19:48,265
So he wouldn't go to y'all--
1747
01:19:48,301 --> 01:19:51,118
- They was trying to tell me
that rivera did it
1748
01:19:51,195 --> 01:19:55,122
Because she had
no other choice.
1749
01:19:55,199 --> 01:19:58,075
And it was, like,
an argument there.
1750
01:19:58,151 --> 01:19:59,794
And so I said,
"well, would you like me
1751
01:19:59,870 --> 01:20:01,370
"to put you
in a ----ing basement
1752
01:20:01,446 --> 01:20:03,288
And do you like he did us?"
1753
01:20:03,299 --> 01:20:06,250
And I put rivera
down here with you.
1754
01:20:06,326 --> 01:20:09,127
And then you tell me
if you got a damn choice.
1755
01:20:09,138 --> 01:20:12,089
"oh, well,
rivera had to do that.
1756
01:20:12,165 --> 01:20:15,592
"she had to do it,
but we gonna give her immunity
1757
01:20:15,627 --> 01:20:17,478
If she tell us everything."
1758
01:20:17,555 --> 01:20:19,263
I said, "well, if you
give her immunity,
1759
01:20:19,298 --> 01:20:21,649
Then she could just tell you
that she killed debbie."
1760
01:20:21,725 --> 01:20:24,652
- Right.
Okay, so let's clarify this.
1761
01:20:24,728 --> 01:20:27,437
First of all, at no time did
the district attorney's office
1762
01:20:27,514 --> 01:20:31,325
Ever press any kind of charges
against me for anything.
1763
01:20:31,402 --> 01:20:32,660
There was no reason
to give me immunity,
1764
01:20:32,736 --> 01:20:34,152
'cause I was a victim.
1765
01:20:34,163 --> 01:20:36,446
- I just didn't see it
the way they seen it.
1766
01:20:36,481 --> 01:20:38,282
- Because no--
now, see, here's the thing.
1767
01:20:38,317 --> 01:20:40,576
None of y'all really knew
what was going on.
1768
01:20:40,652 --> 01:20:42,411
Everybody kind of assumes.
1769
01:20:42,487 --> 01:20:44,746
Even when the police
finally came down there,
1770
01:20:44,823 --> 01:20:47,165
Nobody even really knew
that it was because
1771
01:20:47,176 --> 01:20:48,917
Of what my actions were.
1772
01:20:48,994 --> 01:20:51,962
After he got me to go with him
to get agnes,
1773
01:20:51,997 --> 01:20:53,197
I told him I wanted to go see
my family,
1774
01:20:53,273 --> 01:20:55,966
But he couldn't go with me,
and that's how we got free.
1775
01:20:56,001 --> 01:20:57,676
They just made it
like they just happened
1776
01:20:57,687 --> 01:20:59,520
To come to the house,
and y'all were rescued.
1777
01:20:59,597 --> 01:21:03,190
- I just figured--you know
how them people that say
1778
01:21:03,267 --> 01:21:05,693
That they been
through something,
1779
01:21:05,769 --> 01:21:07,269
And they come out acting like
1780
01:21:07,346 --> 01:21:09,271
The person
that victimized them?
1781
01:21:09,348 --> 01:21:10,439
- Right.
1782
01:21:10,515 --> 01:21:11,940
- That's what
I thought happened.
1783
01:21:12,017 --> 01:21:13,775
- No.
1784
01:21:13,852 --> 01:21:18,697
But at no time
did I ever think about leaving.
1785
01:21:18,708 --> 01:21:20,324
Right?
1786
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:25,162
My whole plan was always
to make sure y'all were safe,
1787
01:21:25,238 --> 01:21:27,331
I was safe,
he couldn't get back to us.
1788
01:21:27,407 --> 01:21:29,499
- Mm-hmm.
- So whatever appears,
1789
01:21:29,576 --> 01:21:32,461
It was just nothing more
than that.
1790
01:21:32,537 --> 01:21:35,222
I'm surprised it even worked,
but it did.
1791
01:21:35,299 --> 01:21:37,674
- It was meant to work.
- Amen.
1792
01:21:37,751 --> 01:21:39,894
- And now I don't know
if that plan with debbie
1793
01:21:39,970 --> 01:21:41,553
Would've worked.
- Right.
1794
01:21:41,564 --> 01:21:44,181
- I think the one you did
was the best one.
1795
01:21:44,216 --> 01:21:45,682
At the end of the day, we here.
1796
01:21:45,759 --> 01:21:48,352
- Yeah, we are.
I'm glad to see you.
1797
01:21:48,428 --> 01:21:51,688
- Did you feel like you was
gonna ever get out of there?
1798
01:21:51,765 --> 01:21:53,899
- Well, I think I said
from the beginning,
1799
01:21:53,910 --> 01:21:57,235
I walked in there,
and I was gonna walk out.
1800
01:21:57,246 --> 01:21:59,363
- I had a real hard time
walking out.
1801
01:21:59,398 --> 01:22:00,748
- I know it.
1802
01:22:00,824 --> 01:22:02,750
- I was mentally
and physically abusing myself
1803
01:22:02,826 --> 01:22:04,701
All over again...
- Hmm.
1804
01:22:04,778 --> 01:22:07,663
'cause I was lost.
- Mm.
1805
01:22:07,739 --> 01:22:09,539
You know,
wherever your mind was
1806
01:22:09,616 --> 01:22:12,417
These last past years
after being free
1807
01:22:12,428 --> 01:22:13,710
Doesn't even matter.
1808
01:22:13,745 --> 01:22:17,264
- I wish we could've said this
30 years ago.
1809
01:22:17,341 --> 01:22:19,341
- Right.
- We should've been together.
1810
01:22:19,418 --> 01:22:20,342
- Together, yeah.
1811
01:22:20,419 --> 01:22:22,511
It would've probably made
a lot of difference.
1812
01:22:22,587 --> 01:22:24,846
- Sometimes when we
get in situations like this,
1813
01:22:24,923 --> 01:22:27,849
It's not an apology
that's needed or to be said
1814
01:22:27,926 --> 01:22:30,227
To be accepted.
- Exactly.
1815
01:22:30,303 --> 01:22:34,231
- And the person that should be
apologizing to us is not here.
1816
01:22:34,307 --> 01:22:36,233
- Right.
1817
01:22:36,309 --> 01:22:38,735
- I really wanted him
to see us now.
1818
01:22:38,812 --> 01:22:45,584
♪ ♪
1819
01:22:47,964 --> 01:22:50,798
- A horrific crime was solved.
1820
01:22:50,874 --> 01:22:52,874
Justice is done.
1821
01:22:52,951 --> 01:22:55,585
But there
should have been justice
1822
01:22:55,620 --> 01:22:57,754
For the victims themselves.
1823
01:22:57,831 --> 01:23:01,800
And that's where the system
fails too often.
1824
01:23:01,811 --> 01:23:03,593
- If gary heidnik's victims
1825
01:23:03,628 --> 01:23:04,979
Had been
middle-class white women,
1826
01:23:05,055 --> 01:23:06,647
Everything
would've been different.
1827
01:23:06,724 --> 01:23:10,818
I think there would've been
more help for these women.
1828
01:23:10,894 --> 01:23:13,270
More organizations would've
come forward to help them.
1829
01:23:13,346 --> 01:23:14,822
And absolutely,
it would've been different.
1830
01:23:14,898 --> 01:23:17,399
- You got a monster
off the street,
1831
01:23:17,476 --> 01:23:19,910
But what about the monster
in their heads?
1832
01:23:21,646 --> 01:23:24,999
- I still think about it,
you know.
1833
01:23:25,075 --> 01:23:28,285
I still think about josefina.
1834
01:23:28,361 --> 01:23:30,787
Months afterwards, I bumped
into her on the street.
1835
01:23:30,822 --> 01:23:34,583
I was talking to her,
and I asked how she was doing.
1836
01:23:34,659 --> 01:23:36,626
And she said she's getting by.
1837
01:23:36,661 --> 01:23:39,629
- In 1987, the resources
and the organizations
1838
01:23:39,706 --> 01:23:41,631
Weren't there for those women.
1839
01:23:41,666 --> 01:23:43,851
Over time, that has changed.
1840
01:23:43,927 --> 01:23:46,854
- We talk so much
about victims' rights,
1841
01:23:46,930 --> 01:23:49,639
But we don't do enough.
1842
01:23:49,716 --> 01:23:52,017
- Irrespective
of how they got there,
1843
01:23:52,028 --> 01:23:53,861
They're still victims
of the crime,
1844
01:23:53,937 --> 01:23:58,023
And society needs
to see them as that.
1845
01:23:58,034 --> 01:24:02,027
- I learned something
through my journey with this.
1846
01:24:02,038 --> 01:24:04,821
I'ma have to let it go,
'cause at the end of the day,
1847
01:24:04,856 --> 01:24:07,824
It's killing me
to keep it there.
1848
01:24:07,901 --> 01:24:10,878
I got to let it go
in order to live.
1849
01:24:10,954 --> 01:24:13,830
♪ ♪
1850
01:24:13,907 --> 01:24:15,665
- I was happy to see her,
1851
01:24:15,700 --> 01:24:17,709
Happy to see she's doing
as well as she was doing.
1852
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:21,463
My main objective was
to put her mind at ease.
1853
01:24:21,540 --> 01:24:24,391
- Just being around her
1854
01:24:24,468 --> 01:24:28,345
Made it a more positive energy
for me.
1855
01:24:28,380 --> 01:24:30,472
- If she calls me,
I will always answer.
1856
01:24:30,549 --> 01:24:32,682
I think she should be able
to move on,
1857
01:24:32,717 --> 01:24:35,393
'cause she does have
some understanding.
1858
01:24:35,404 --> 01:24:37,687
- I just hope
from this day forward,
1859
01:24:37,764 --> 01:24:39,523
Me and her can have
a relationship,
1860
01:24:39,558 --> 01:24:43,911
Because we the only two
know what we went through.
1861
01:24:43,987 --> 01:24:46,530
Maybe that's what we both
missing out of our life--
1862
01:24:46,606 --> 01:24:48,532
Each other.
1863
01:24:48,567 --> 01:24:55,506
♪ ♪