WEBVTT FILE
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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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[indistinct chatter]
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[tense music]
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♪ ♪
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[indistinct radio chatter]
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- I was trying to find
something that worked
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That would make them
shut up to stop hollering--
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- Aggressive kind of
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Infliction of pain
on these women.
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- I was trying
to find something
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That would make them behave.
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- But it was painful to them.
- I hope so.
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I don't mean I hope so.
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But, I mean, yeah, that's what
I was trying to achieve,
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You know, to make them behave.
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♪ ♪
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- Charges were filed
in philadelphia today
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In a gruesome story of
captives, torture, and murder.
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- Heidnik's house of horrors
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Where he kept six women
in chains in his basement.
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- Heidnik is accused of luring
prostitutes to his house
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And then raping, torturing,
and murdering them.
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- And the mother
of one of the dead women
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Said she led police
to the house last December.
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- They didn't do nothing.
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The policemen
didn't do nothing.
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If they had did this, my
daughter would be alive today.
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- At first, I tried to
make it nice, right?
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- Yeah, how did you
do that, gary?
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- I was holding parties there,
for one thing.
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I had a christmas party
and a new year's party.
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- He was out to establish
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A throne of power, control,
and adoration
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And create this harem
of sexual slaves
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And have all these children.
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- Gary heidnik was religious.
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He was
a self-ordained minister
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And started a church,
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The united church
of the ministers of god.
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♪ ♪
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- In his mind,
he was creating
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A church for all the other
misfits in the world,
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And he saw himself
as this benevolent leader.
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And it really was
just to play god.
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- He would actually have
church services
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On the first floor of his house
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While girls
were in his basement
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Chained together.
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♪ ♪
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- The captive women
had been imprisoned
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As long as four months and fed
dog food, bread, and water.
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- And in the kitchen,
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Police found body parts
of two people.
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They suspect cannibalism.
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Police say that they were led
to heidnik's house by a woman
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Who told them that she had
escaped from the basement.
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♪ ♪
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- I think you just question
all the time, you know,
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"why was it me that ended up
here in this basement?"
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Like, "what did I do to deserve
to be tortured and raped,
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You know, for these days?"
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And I think, you know,
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God put me there
to save the other girls.
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Well, at least
that's what I believe,
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And I kind of accept that,
and that keeps me sane.
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- I remember she telling me,
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"be patient.
She would get us out."
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But she just didn't tell me
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When she was gonna
take me through.
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[sniffles]
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When we got out,
society made me feel that
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Whatever rivera did
was justifiable
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Because of the predicament
we was in.
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A lot of people don't know
what she actually did
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'cause she wasn't never
truthful about it.
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She should've just told
the truth from the beginning,
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And we wouldn't be here now.
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♪ ♪
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[ominous music]
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♪ ♪
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Philadelphia was crazy then.
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We lived in the projects,
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So you only expected to do
certain things
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'cause you poor.
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♪ ♪
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I was 12
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When I first started
dealing with the streets.
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I had a good mom.
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She was a mother and a father.
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You know,
when I didn't want to listen
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To the rules and regulations,
I ran away.
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And when I ran away,
I was looking for love,
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And I found it
in the wrong places.
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I was, like, 12 years old
messing with a 26-year-old man.
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Back then,
I didn't know no better,
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And I thought
I was grown at 12.
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He was selling drugs,
and I was using them.
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♪ ♪
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I was just a young girl
trying to find her way in life
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With an older man
that didn't set no directions.
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[soft melancholy music]
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The people that supposed
to have been in my life
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To guide me the right way,
they wasn't,
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Because I wasn't letting them.
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So I was going off
to the deep end of the streets.
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♪ ♪
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And that's where I met
gary heidnik.
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- My upbringing and discipline
from catholic school,
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I think that had a lot to do
with me surviving heidnik.
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I was born in 1961
in philadelphia.
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And a police officer
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Delivered me
in the back of his car.
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I was raised
in a great foster home.
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I mean, I wanted for nothing.
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I went to school,
went to high school, graduated,
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You know, went to college,
and I don't know.
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Somewhere along the line,
I got sidetracked
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And got caught up with weed
and then cocaine.
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And it's very easy
to get caught up
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In things like that,
you know what I mean?
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So now there's not enough--
sufficient money
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To go along
with what you're doing,
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So then the alternative
is prostituting.
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[suspenseful music]
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♪ ♪
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I was living in an apartment
on 6th street, 6th and girard.
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I was a mother of three.
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It was the day
before thanksgiving.
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I was gonna make
thanksgiving dinner,
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And, you know,
I needed a couple extra bucks.
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It just kind of worked out
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That I ended up being out there
on that night.
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I was prostituting.
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I was always on front street.
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It's where basically all
the girls would generally go
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If they were turning tricks.
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♪ ♪
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It was a rainy night.
It was cold.
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It was kind of
pretty chilly out.
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So it was really dreary,
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And because it was
right before the holidays,
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It wasn't a lot of cars
or a lot of traffic.
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So it was just, like,
a slow walk
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Going down to front street.
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I saw the brand-new cadillac
go by a couple times.
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I didn't really pay it any--
much attention.
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He pulled over.
We started to talk.
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He had some money,
and he was so tall.
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He was six foot.
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He seemed pretty normal,
but, you know,
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The word "nut" is not really
stamped on anybody's head,
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So you were basically
just taking a chance
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To hopefully--that you're gonna
get this done
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And get back home safely.
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♪ ♪
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He was talking,
and he was saying,
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"well, you know, it's hard
for me to do stuff in the car.
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You know,
I'd rather go to the house."
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And it was
a little inconvenient.
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It was basically the first
time I made an exception
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About going to someone's house,
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Because I generally did dates
in the car.
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I got in the car,
and we headed to his house.
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♪ ♪
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When we got to his house,
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It was nothing
that looked dangerous.
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I mean, he had
coin change in his kitchen
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On the walls
and stuff like that.
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He had some dollar bills
glued on his stairway,
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Like, going up to the bedroom.
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He had pinball machines.
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But there were no, like,
intuitions,
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Like he was a bad person.
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And we went upstairs,
and, you know,
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I took off my clothes,
he took off his clothes.
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You know, we had sex.
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And I remember him asking me
distinct questions like,
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"well, can you
still have children?
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Are your tubes tied?"
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You know, that was about it.
We had sex, I got up.
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As I'm, like,
trying to put my shirt on,
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I remember him coming up
behind me, and he's choking me.
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All I can remember was, like,
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You know when you're in school
and you have a movie projector
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And it slides off,
and it's like,
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Click-click-click-click-click
really fast?
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And it was, like,
just things in my life
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Were just flashing in my head,
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Not realizing that
he was actually choking me.
191
00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.375
And then he kind of
let loose a little bit,
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00:09:03.451 --> 00:09:05.159
And then I'm like,
"well, what are you doing?"
193
00:09:05.194 --> 00:09:08.162
And he already had
a handcuff on one of my hands.
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00:09:08.239 --> 00:09:10.164
And I was, like, struggling
with him, and he was like,
195
00:09:10.241 --> 00:09:12.458
"no, put your other hand
behind your back.
196
00:09:12.535 --> 00:09:14.127
I don't want to hurt you."
197
00:09:14.203 --> 00:09:16.129
And I put my other hand
behind my back,
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00:09:16.205 --> 00:09:17.505
And he handcuffed it,
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00:09:17.582 --> 00:09:20.725
And then he proceeded
to take me downstairs.
200
00:09:20.802 --> 00:09:23.303
[door opens, creaks]
201
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He took me down
into the basement.
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00:09:26.233 --> 00:09:29.142
It was a hole in the basement.
203
00:09:29.218 --> 00:09:32.061
The basement has no windows
or anything.
204
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It's, like,
a freezer is down there.
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00:09:33.890 --> 00:09:37.075
And he proceeded
to put me in this hole.
206
00:09:37.152 --> 00:09:38.318
It was hard for me to breathe
207
00:09:38.394 --> 00:09:40.412
'cause I'm, like,
still handcuffed.
208
00:09:40.488 --> 00:09:42.155
I really thought
it was a grave.
209
00:09:42.231 --> 00:09:43.865
I'm, like, looking around,
and I'm like,
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00:09:43.900 --> 00:09:45.199
"is there bodies here?"
211
00:09:45.234 --> 00:09:48.703
Is he just bringing me here to
bury me alive in his basement?
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00:09:48.738 --> 00:09:51.372
♪ ♪
213
00:09:51.449 --> 00:09:55.043
- Once he found
his sort of victim pool,
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00:09:55.078 --> 00:09:56.919
He started his church.
215
00:09:56.930 --> 00:09:58.263
- You have to be
doing good work
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00:09:58.340 --> 00:09:59.589
If you call yourself
a minister.
217
00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.925
He was doing work,
but that work wasn't good.
218
00:10:02.936 --> 00:10:04.552
- She was an easy mark.
219
00:10:04.587 --> 00:10:07.221
And he knew it'd be very easy
to trick her
220
00:10:07.256 --> 00:10:09.724
And get her into the basement
221
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:12.226
To be his, you know,
second slave.
222
00:10:12.303 --> 00:10:15.947
♪ ♪
223
00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:23.446
[foreboding music]
224
00:10:23.457 --> 00:10:28.242
♪ ♪
225
00:10:28.277 --> 00:10:31.079
- I was still
in that coma state.
226
00:10:31.114 --> 00:10:34.123
I remember waking up
and would hear the chain
227
00:10:34.134 --> 00:10:35.750
And think I was dreaming.
228
00:10:35.827 --> 00:10:38.086
But it was really nuts stuff.
229
00:10:38.162 --> 00:10:39.921
This guy kidnapped me,
230
00:10:39.997 --> 00:10:42.256
And I've been chained
in this basement.
231
00:10:42.291 --> 00:10:45.760
I had been in there for hours.
232
00:10:45.837 --> 00:10:47.970
And I'm banging on the board.
233
00:10:47.981 --> 00:10:49.814
I'm, like, crying,
and I'm screaming,
234
00:10:49.891 --> 00:10:52.058
And I'm hollering.
235
00:10:52.135 --> 00:10:56.270
He came downstairs
and he's lifting this board,
236
00:10:56.347 --> 00:10:59.107
And he's, like, grabbing me
by my hair and pulling me out.
237
00:10:59.142 --> 00:11:00.492
And he's beating me,
telling me,
238
00:11:00.568 --> 00:11:01.901
"shut up, shut up, shut up."
239
00:11:01.978 --> 00:11:03.778
Then he puts me
back in there again,
240
00:11:03.813 --> 00:11:05.446
And he covers me up.
241
00:11:05.523 --> 00:11:07.990
♪ ♪
242
00:11:08.001 --> 00:11:10.785
The following day...
243
00:11:10.862 --> 00:11:13.287
Gary heidnik took me
out of the hole,
244
00:11:13.322 --> 00:11:17.166
And then he started handcuffing
me with these muffler clamps,
245
00:11:17.177 --> 00:11:20.461
With this krazy glue and that,
246
00:11:20.538 --> 00:11:22.964
With this chain attached
to this sewer pipe.
247
00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:24.173
And as he's doing that,
248
00:11:24.184 --> 00:11:26.300
He talked to me
like he knew me for years.
249
00:11:26.377 --> 00:11:28.136
He was saying, like, you know,
250
00:11:28.212 --> 00:11:30.930
He had impregnated
all these girls,
251
00:11:31.007 --> 00:11:32.515
And every time
he would have a baby,
252
00:11:32.526 --> 00:11:35.101
Philadelphia dhs
would just snatch them up,
253
00:11:35.178 --> 00:11:37.529
And he would never
get to see them.
254
00:11:37.605 --> 00:11:42.492
Then he started explaining
to me his agenda.
255
00:11:44.187 --> 00:11:46.821
He wanted to gather girls
on marshall street,
256
00:11:46.898 --> 00:11:49.323
And then just keep impregnating
all these girls
257
00:11:49.358 --> 00:11:51.209
So he would have all these kids
258
00:11:51.286 --> 00:11:53.995
And he would be able
to raise his own children.
259
00:11:54.071 --> 00:11:55.663
He was just really desperate,
260
00:11:55.698 --> 00:11:59.041
And he just couldn't see
another way out of it.
261
00:11:59.052 --> 00:12:02.503
- Heidnik, his idea was to...
262
00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:04.389
Kidnap women
263
00:12:04.466 --> 00:12:06.007
And create this harem
264
00:12:06.042 --> 00:12:07.508
Of sexual slaves
265
00:12:07.543 --> 00:12:09.469
That he would impregnate them
266
00:12:09.545 --> 00:12:12.013
And have all these children.
267
00:12:12.089 --> 00:12:14.849
He was out to establish
268
00:12:14.926 --> 00:12:18.561
A throne of power,
control, and adoration.
269
00:12:18.572 --> 00:12:20.521
- He was obsessed with money.
270
00:12:20.556 --> 00:12:22.231
He was obsessed with fame.
271
00:12:22.242 --> 00:12:23.524
He wanted to be a big shot,
272
00:12:23.601 --> 00:12:26.077
Driving around
in a brand-new cadillac.
273
00:12:26.154 --> 00:12:27.361
On the other hand,
274
00:12:27.396 --> 00:12:31.324
The other gary heidnik
was religious.
275
00:12:31.400 --> 00:12:34.252
He was a self-ordained--
when I say self-ordained,
276
00:12:34.329 --> 00:12:38.331
You could buy a corporate kit
and ordain yourself a bishop.
277
00:12:38.407 --> 00:12:42.084
So he was an ordained minister
and started a church,
278
00:12:42.095 --> 00:12:45.213
The united church
of the ministers of god.
279
00:12:45.248 --> 00:12:49.217
And he would actually have
church services
280
00:12:49.293 --> 00:12:52.386
On the first floor
of his house.
281
00:12:52.463 --> 00:12:55.440
The church was--
in actual services
282
00:12:55.517 --> 00:12:59.060
Where it was part prestige.
283
00:12:59.095 --> 00:13:01.062
He was looked up to
in the area--
284
00:13:01.138 --> 00:13:03.606
Where people would call him
bishop heidnik.
285
00:13:03.617 --> 00:13:04.799
He loved that.
286
00:13:04.876 --> 00:13:07.610
He would have the church
services and give a sermon,
287
00:13:07.621 --> 00:13:09.529
And he loved the authority
over them.
288
00:13:09.605 --> 00:13:11.447
He was somebody.
289
00:13:11.458 --> 00:13:16.953
And he would preach to about
seven to ten people each week.
290
00:13:16.963 --> 00:13:19.580
- He used to wear
a roman collar.
291
00:13:19.615 --> 00:13:22.250
I mean, he even had
a plastic sign
292
00:13:22.326 --> 00:13:23.918
On the front of his house--
293
00:13:23.995 --> 00:13:27.046
"the church of the
united ministers of christ."
294
00:13:27.123 --> 00:13:28.756
But the reason he did that was
295
00:13:28.791 --> 00:13:31.259
He didn't want to have
to pay taxes on the money
296
00:13:31.335 --> 00:13:35.980
He was making and withdrawing
from his investments.
297
00:13:36.057 --> 00:13:38.474
- He was a degreed nurse
298
00:13:38.485 --> 00:13:41.936
From the university
of pennsylvania with a 148 iq.
299
00:13:42.013 --> 00:13:46.941
He made $700,000 back then
in the stock market.
300
00:13:46.976 --> 00:13:49.235
[soft dramatic music]
301
00:13:49.312 --> 00:13:52.613
- In '83, he moved
to marshall street
302
00:13:52.690 --> 00:13:55.283
In philadelphia.
303
00:13:55.318 --> 00:13:58.119
- When they first moved in,
he would tell me
304
00:13:58.195 --> 00:14:00.580
He wanted what I had,
a family--
305
00:14:00.656 --> 00:14:02.456
Three beautiful girls.
306
00:14:02.491 --> 00:14:05.960
You know, he wanted to have
a wife and children someday.
307
00:14:06.037 --> 00:14:08.504
- He had a filipino
mail-order bride.
308
00:14:08.515 --> 00:14:11.007
He got the idea
because he read that
309
00:14:11.017 --> 00:14:14.760
Asian women would be
totally subservient as a wife,
310
00:14:14.837 --> 00:14:17.597
And he loved that idea.
311
00:14:17.673 --> 00:14:20.525
- It was all right at first...
312
00:14:20.602 --> 00:14:23.436
And it seemed like
after she got pregnant,
313
00:14:23.512 --> 00:14:26.147
When things were starting
to go wrong.
314
00:14:26.182 --> 00:14:30.443
Walls were thin, so you could
hear them yell or arguing.
315
00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:33.613
His wife told me--she says,
"oh, gary hit me."
316
00:14:33.689 --> 00:14:36.657
And I said,
"well, don't let him do that."
317
00:14:36.692 --> 00:14:41.037
I said,
"and if you can't stop him,
318
00:14:41.047 --> 00:14:43.214
Then you need to leave."
319
00:14:43.291 --> 00:14:46.459
And then it wasn't
long after that, she left.
320
00:14:46.535 --> 00:14:49.128
♪ ♪
321
00:14:49.205 --> 00:14:52.340
That's when he started
bringing a lot of girls home.
322
00:14:52.375 --> 00:14:54.383
They were only there
for one purpose--
323
00:14:54.394 --> 00:14:56.385
To get money
for whatever they could do.
324
00:14:56.396 --> 00:14:59.513
♪ ♪
325
00:14:59.548 --> 00:15:02.683
- Gary heidnik
was in a poor neighborhood.
326
00:15:02.718 --> 00:15:05.186
People turned a blind eye
327
00:15:05.262 --> 00:15:08.522
To things that he did.
328
00:15:08.599 --> 00:15:10.858
Some of them
were not so unusual,
329
00:15:10.893 --> 00:15:14.362
Black women
going into the home.
330
00:15:14.397 --> 00:15:17.323
But I think mainly because
he was a white male,
331
00:15:17.400 --> 00:15:20.743
He was able to project himself
as this...
332
00:15:20.754 --> 00:15:23.704
Normal human being.
333
00:15:23.781 --> 00:15:28.167
And it enabled him to get away
with the things that he did.
334
00:15:28.244 --> 00:15:30.544
- Issues of poverty
accelerated
335
00:15:30.579 --> 00:15:33.097
During the 1980s.
336
00:15:33.174 --> 00:15:36.509
The city of philadelphia's
housing policies
337
00:15:36.585 --> 00:15:38.552
Deliberately underfunded areas
338
00:15:38.629 --> 00:15:40.554
Like north philadelphia.
339
00:15:40.631 --> 00:15:43.775
The racism has been embedded
in the city,
340
00:15:43.851 --> 00:15:48.396
And that was a problem going
back to the colonial period.
341
00:15:48.472 --> 00:15:52.066
Policies from city hall
were driving
342
00:15:52.143 --> 00:15:53.526
The impoverishment.
343
00:15:53.602 --> 00:15:57.279
This purposeful exclusion
created barriers
344
00:15:57.290 --> 00:16:00.792
To the rise of economics
in the black community,
345
00:16:00.868 --> 00:16:04.462
And that all fed the crime.
346
00:16:04.539 --> 00:16:07.581
- I worked 5th to 10th,
poplar to norris,
347
00:16:07.658 --> 00:16:11.210
Which is predominantly
black and hispanic.
348
00:16:11.287 --> 00:16:13.087
A lot of drug trafficking,
349
00:16:13.164 --> 00:16:15.306
A lot of robberies, shootings.
350
00:16:15.383 --> 00:16:17.258
It's a rough neighborhood.
351
00:16:17.334 --> 00:16:20.636
- At that time,
we were experiencing
352
00:16:20.647 --> 00:16:24.306
Somewhere between
300 to 400 homicides a year.
353
00:16:24.317 --> 00:16:26.651
- North philadelphia
was going down,
354
00:16:26.728 --> 00:16:30.604
And it just kind of had
a whirlpool-type effect,
355
00:16:30.681 --> 00:16:35.276
Which sucked it down
even further during the 1980s.
356
00:16:35.311 --> 00:16:39.613
The ladies who were victimized
by gary heidnik,
357
00:16:39.648 --> 00:16:42.783
Had they been
of a different race
358
00:16:42.818 --> 00:16:44.952
Or a different economic class,
359
00:16:44.987 --> 00:16:47.288
Clearly there would've been
a different response
360
00:16:47.364 --> 00:16:49.290
And responsiveness.
361
00:16:49.325 --> 00:16:52.293
[suspenseful music]
362
00:16:52.328 --> 00:16:53.419
- It took me a couple days
363
00:16:53.496 --> 00:16:56.347
To get oriented to what
actually is really going on.
364
00:16:56.424 --> 00:16:58.516
♪ ♪
365
00:16:58.593 --> 00:17:01.594
He started handcuffing me
behind my back.
366
00:17:01.670 --> 00:17:03.262
It was, like,
the worst thing in the world.
367
00:17:03.339 --> 00:17:05.598
I would be that way
for so long
368
00:17:05.674 --> 00:17:07.600
That, when he would finally
take the handcuffs off,
369
00:17:07.676 --> 00:17:10.144
I couldn't even move my arms.
370
00:17:10.179 --> 00:17:11.696
I wasn't fighting,
371
00:17:11.773 --> 00:17:13.856
Because basically there was
really nothing you could do.
372
00:17:13.867 --> 00:17:16.859
Hollering, screaming,
and making noise,
373
00:17:16.870 --> 00:17:18.486
You're just gonna get
a punishment.
374
00:17:18.562 --> 00:17:21.655
You're just gonna get
your ass beat.
375
00:17:21.690 --> 00:17:25.493
[tense music]
376
00:17:25.528 --> 00:17:26.878
I was in the hole,
377
00:17:26.954 --> 00:17:29.497
And I remember hearing
the footsteps.
378
00:17:29.532 --> 00:17:31.883
And I just heard this crying.
379
00:17:31.959 --> 00:17:34.627
He kept saying, "shut up.
You know you know me.
380
00:17:34.703 --> 00:17:36.712
You know
I'm not gonna hurt you."
381
00:17:36.723 --> 00:17:39.173
He took me out of the hole,
382
00:17:39.208 --> 00:17:42.301
And I saw this girl
sitting there.
383
00:17:42.378 --> 00:17:43.803
And she has handcuffs on,
384
00:17:43.879 --> 00:17:47.181
And he's putting these
muffler clamps on her now.
385
00:17:47.258 --> 00:17:48.641
Putting krazy glue,
386
00:17:48.717 --> 00:17:50.518
And he's air-drying them
with the hair dryer.
387
00:17:50.553 --> 00:17:52.686
He kept telling her, "I don't
know why you're crying.
388
00:17:52.763 --> 00:17:54.522
"I don't know why you're upset.
You know me.
389
00:17:54.557 --> 00:17:56.690
You've been in my house
a thousand times."
390
00:17:56.725 --> 00:17:58.743
You know?
391
00:17:58.820 --> 00:18:01.695
But I'm sure she hadn't been
there in that capacity.
392
00:18:01.772 --> 00:18:07.502
♪ ♪
393
00:18:11.348 --> 00:18:14.416
[tense music]
394
00:18:14.427 --> 00:18:21.390
♪ ♪
395
00:18:23.919 --> 00:18:26.053
- This is
the gary heidnik house,
396
00:18:26.088 --> 00:18:29.774
The place where I was held
hostage for 100 days.
397
00:18:29.851 --> 00:18:32.777
It doesn't even seem
like I've been here before.
398
00:18:32.854 --> 00:18:36.614
♪ ♪
399
00:18:36.691 --> 00:18:38.774
I don't even know what to say.
400
00:18:38.785 --> 00:18:40.901
So much horror and torture
went on here.
401
00:18:40.978 --> 00:18:43.779
♪ ♪
402
00:18:43.790 --> 00:18:46.740
I thank god that I'm standing
outside this house
403
00:18:46.775 --> 00:18:48.951
Instead of being
in this basement.
404
00:18:48.962 --> 00:18:55.925
♪ ♪
405
00:18:58.954 --> 00:19:01.589
I was in the hole,
and I remember hearing--
406
00:19:01.665 --> 00:19:03.474
Just hearing a girl crying.
407
00:19:03.551 --> 00:19:04.550
And he takes me out the hole,
408
00:19:04.627 --> 00:19:06.802
And I'm looking at this girl,
and she's naked.
409
00:19:06.813 --> 00:19:08.304
She has handcuffs on.
410
00:19:08.314 --> 00:19:10.472
And he's like, "this is sandra,
411
00:19:10.483 --> 00:19:12.308
And, sandra, this is josefina,"
412
00:19:12.318 --> 00:19:15.561
As he's putting these
muffler clamps on her.
413
00:19:15.638 --> 00:19:17.897
And I can see from her talking
414
00:19:17.973 --> 00:19:21.775
That she has some type
of mental disability.
415
00:19:21.810 --> 00:19:24.570
- I think that he picked
sandra next
416
00:19:24.647 --> 00:19:26.071
Because she was an easy mark
417
00:19:26.148 --> 00:19:28.949
And he knew it'd be very easy
to trick her
418
00:19:29.026 --> 00:19:31.452
And get her into the basement
419
00:19:31.528 --> 00:19:35.122
To be his, you know,
second slave.
420
00:19:35.199 --> 00:19:37.508
- Sandra lindsay was a girl
421
00:19:37.585 --> 00:19:41.503
Who was mildly
mentally deficient,
422
00:19:41.514 --> 00:19:44.632
Had gone to training
at the elwyn school
423
00:19:44.667 --> 00:19:47.509
In west philadelphia
that treated people
424
00:19:47.520 --> 00:19:50.938
That could not survive
in a regular school setting.
425
00:19:52.525 --> 00:19:57.028
She was just an innocent person
from a loving family.
426
00:19:57.104 --> 00:20:01.482
- He preyed on people
who could not fight back.
427
00:20:01.558 --> 00:20:04.151
Prostitutes,
they can't run to the police.
428
00:20:04.186 --> 00:20:05.611
So, if he kidnapped
429
00:20:05.688 --> 00:20:06.612
A prostitute,
430
00:20:06.689 --> 00:20:07.947
Who's gonna miss her?
431
00:20:08.023 --> 00:20:11.158
If he went after somebody
who was mentally ill,
432
00:20:11.235 --> 00:20:12.660
Who's gonna miss her?
433
00:20:12.695 --> 00:20:14.370
She's not gonna know
what to do.
434
00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:17.539
So he always preyed
on weak people
435
00:20:17.550 --> 00:20:19.717
Because he wanted
to be dominant,
436
00:20:19.794 --> 00:20:22.002
He wanted to totally be
in control.
437
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.672
♪ ♪
438
00:20:24.748 --> 00:20:27.508
- With heidnik,
fear of abandonment
439
00:20:27.543 --> 00:20:29.385
Is a theme that just drives
440
00:20:29.395 --> 00:20:32.513
Right through all
of his history and his crimes.
441
00:20:32.548 --> 00:20:35.724
Really had
a persecution complex almost.
442
00:20:35.735 --> 00:20:38.143
"why do people hate me?"
443
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:41.021
Because he was such
a social outcast,
444
00:20:41.056 --> 00:20:43.691
Books and things
became his escape,
445
00:20:43.726 --> 00:20:46.026
Where he could envision himself
as powerful
446
00:20:46.103 --> 00:20:48.862
And loved and popular--
447
00:20:48.939 --> 00:20:52.416
All the opposites of what his
real-world experiences were.
448
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.203
- He went into the army.
449
00:20:56.280 --> 00:20:59.581
He was trained
as a military nurse
450
00:20:59.592 --> 00:21:01.092
And assigned to germany.
451
00:21:01.168 --> 00:21:05.596
When he was over in germany,
he proceeded to act up,
452
00:21:05.673 --> 00:21:09.392
And eventually
he got a military discharge.
453
00:21:10.627 --> 00:21:13.220
- Him being trained as a medic
454
00:21:13.297 --> 00:21:15.055
Gave him the idea
of being a nurse
455
00:21:15.132 --> 00:21:17.057
Once he got back
into the states.
456
00:21:17.134 --> 00:21:19.893
The position he got
with the elwyn institute
457
00:21:19.970 --> 00:21:21.770
In west philadelphia,
458
00:21:21.781 --> 00:21:23.781
Which serves folks
with intellectual
459
00:21:23.858 --> 00:21:26.191
And developmental
disabilities...
460
00:21:26.268 --> 00:21:30.863
He very quickly found
not only could he excel
461
00:21:30.939 --> 00:21:33.449
And feel like he was
an important person,
462
00:21:33.459 --> 00:21:35.451
He could easily take advantage
463
00:21:35.461 --> 00:21:38.546
Of these poor
intellectually disabled women.
464
00:21:39.874 --> 00:21:42.082
He would take the clients
out on these tours
465
00:21:42.159 --> 00:21:44.084
Into the community,
466
00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:46.754
And then he would sneak them
off to his apartment
467
00:21:46.830 --> 00:21:49.757
To exploit the women
for sexual favors.
468
00:21:49.792 --> 00:21:51.475
It was a big, huge boost
469
00:21:51.552 --> 00:21:56.138
To his, you know, tiny,
weak, fragile ego.
470
00:21:56.149 --> 00:21:58.265
[foreboding music]
471
00:21:58.300 --> 00:22:01.769
Once he found
his sort of victim pool,
472
00:22:01.845 --> 00:22:05.105
He started his church
with his small community.
473
00:22:05.182 --> 00:22:07.941
And he used the church
for his purposes.
474
00:22:07.976 --> 00:22:10.152
- He would have sessions
every Sunday,
475
00:22:10.163 --> 00:22:13.739
Where he would bring
mentally deficient young women
476
00:22:13.816 --> 00:22:16.116
And other people into his house
and preach to them.
477
00:22:16.193 --> 00:22:18.285
♪ ♪
478
00:22:18.320 --> 00:22:22.790
- Hustlers do not shy away
from religion.
479
00:22:22.866 --> 00:22:25.626
It's a way
to captivate people,
480
00:22:25.661 --> 00:22:26.960
'cause people will look at it,
481
00:22:27.037 --> 00:22:29.296
And it'll give that veneer
of respectability
482
00:22:29.331 --> 00:22:34.635
Because you are associated
with religion and the lord.
483
00:22:34.711 --> 00:22:36.095
You have to be doing good work
484
00:22:36.171 --> 00:22:37.846
If you call yourself
485
00:22:37.857 --> 00:22:38.931
A minister.
486
00:22:39.007 --> 00:22:40.265
He was doing work,
487
00:22:40.342 --> 00:22:41.850
But that work wasn't good.
488
00:22:41.861 --> 00:22:45.145
And I think that church
gave him cover,
489
00:22:45.222 --> 00:22:47.865
And that cover worked
to his advantage.
490
00:22:47.942 --> 00:22:50.150
♪ ♪
491
00:22:50.185 --> 00:22:52.986
- In his mind,
he was creating a church
492
00:22:53.063 --> 00:22:55.656
For all the other misfits
in the world,
493
00:22:55.732 --> 00:22:59.535
You know, a church
that would specialize in folks
494
00:22:59.545 --> 00:23:01.995
With intellectual disabilities
that would be, you know,
495
00:23:02.030 --> 00:23:04.164
Cast aside by normal churches.
496
00:23:04.241 --> 00:23:07.709
And he saw himself
as this benevolent leader,
497
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:10.212
And he pronounced
himself bishop.
498
00:23:10.223 --> 00:23:14.716
[scoffs] and it really
was just to play god.
499
00:23:14.727 --> 00:23:19.680
♪ ♪
500
00:23:19.756 --> 00:23:24.560
- Heidnik knew sandra lindsay
from before he kidnapped her.
501
00:23:24.570 --> 00:23:27.855
- I remember sandra.
She used to come over a lot.
502
00:23:27.890 --> 00:23:30.908
After a while,
gary started locking the gate.
503
00:23:30.985 --> 00:23:34.578
I said, "well, you can
step over right here
504
00:23:34.655 --> 00:23:36.029
"and step down in the yard,
505
00:23:36.106 --> 00:23:38.699
And then you can go over
to the door."
506
00:23:38.775 --> 00:23:43.078
So she climbed over the fence
and went to the door,
507
00:23:43.089 --> 00:23:45.581
And she knocked,
and gary opened the door,
508
00:23:45.591 --> 00:23:47.583
And she went in.
509
00:23:47.593 --> 00:23:50.878
♪ ♪
510
00:23:50.913 --> 00:23:54.882
- After sandra got there,
we are in a hole for hours.
511
00:23:54.917 --> 00:23:57.259
We were just buried alive.
512
00:23:57.270 --> 00:24:00.095
It was like living in...
513
00:24:00.106 --> 00:24:02.055
Just living
in a permanent grave.
514
00:24:02.132 --> 00:24:04.275
That's how it felt,
'cause we're just in dirt,
515
00:24:04.351 --> 00:24:07.728
Just laying in dirt.
516
00:24:07.763 --> 00:24:10.230
A while later,
we're talking in a hole.
517
00:24:10.265 --> 00:24:12.232
Like, she's telling me
she's from west philly,
518
00:24:12.309 --> 00:24:14.234
That she knew gary
for quite a few years,
519
00:24:14.311 --> 00:24:16.069
And that, you know,
she didn't really understand
520
00:24:16.146 --> 00:24:17.955
Why he was doing this.
521
00:24:19.316 --> 00:24:22.626
And I start just digging
for information,
522
00:24:22.703 --> 00:24:24.119
You know,
that tells me a little bit
523
00:24:24.130 --> 00:24:26.079
About his personality
and, you know,
524
00:24:26.156 --> 00:24:30.417
What's going on in his head,
because she knew him so long.
525
00:24:30.452 --> 00:24:32.878
Now I have to try
to figure out,
526
00:24:32.955 --> 00:24:34.296
Where am I gonna go from here?
527
00:24:34.307 --> 00:24:35.923
'cause I have no idea.
528
00:24:35.958 --> 00:24:37.641
I made up my mind
I was gonna make
529
00:24:37.718 --> 00:24:40.260
Every effort possible to be
able to get out of there.
530
00:24:40.295 --> 00:24:41.803
I had no plan.
531
00:24:41.814 --> 00:24:44.932
'cause I wanted to live,
and I wasn't done living.
532
00:24:45.008 --> 00:24:50.437
♪ ♪
533
00:24:50.514 --> 00:24:53.824
- Philadelphia made
josefina a hero.
534
00:24:53.901 --> 00:24:55.659
She wasn't a hero for me.
535
00:25:02.025 --> 00:25:04.326
- When I see, I don't know
if I'ma run up to her
536
00:25:04.337 --> 00:25:05.911
And start punching her.
537
00:25:05.988 --> 00:25:07.955
I don't know if I'ma hug her.
538
00:25:08.031 --> 00:25:09.665
After 30 years,
539
00:25:09.675 --> 00:25:11.833
I'm yet to hear one apology.
540
00:25:11.844 --> 00:25:16.722
♪ ♪
541
00:25:21.520 --> 00:25:24.137
[dramatic music]
542
00:25:24.214 --> 00:25:26.974
- Sandra lindsay's family is
desperately looking for her.
543
00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:30.027
And they know that
she was fond of gary heidnik,
544
00:25:30.104 --> 00:25:33.355
And they know that
the last person she was with
545
00:25:33.366 --> 00:25:34.982
Was supposed to be gary heidnik
546
00:25:35.017 --> 00:25:38.819
Because she stated,
"I'm going to see gary."
547
00:25:38.854 --> 00:25:41.038
And they know where he lives.
548
00:25:41.115 --> 00:25:44.157
♪ ♪
549
00:25:44.192 --> 00:25:46.994
- Jeanette perkins, who was
the mother of sandra lindsay,
550
00:25:47.029 --> 00:25:50.330
She and sandra's other sister,
tracey lomax,
551
00:25:50.407 --> 00:25:52.040
They went to the house
and knocked on the door,
552
00:25:52.051 --> 00:25:54.385
And they got no answer.
553
00:25:54.461 --> 00:25:56.712
- She didn't have
a whole lot of family
554
00:25:56.722 --> 00:25:58.722
With any wherewithal
to find her.
555
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:00.724
Gary heidnik knew there
wouldn't be an army out
556
00:26:00.801 --> 00:26:03.719
Looking for her--
perfect heidnik victim.
557
00:26:03.729 --> 00:26:07.306
Abused her,
had sex with her at his will,
558
00:26:07.382 --> 00:26:09.474
And he wasn't gonna get caught.
559
00:26:09.551 --> 00:26:11.852
Nobody was gonna do
anything about it.
560
00:26:11.928 --> 00:26:15.406
But sandra's family filed
a missing-persons report,
561
00:26:15.482 --> 00:26:18.075
So the police go
to gary heidnik's house.
562
00:26:18.152 --> 00:26:21.028
♪ ♪
563
00:26:21.104 --> 00:26:22.404
- The officers had gone
to the house
564
00:26:22.415 --> 00:26:24.364
At the request of the family
looking for sandra.
565
00:26:24.441 --> 00:26:26.867
- They knock on the door
to look for sandra.
566
00:26:26.943 --> 00:26:29.369
He doesn't answer the door.
567
00:26:29.446 --> 00:26:32.873
The girls were downstairs,
chained up at that very moment.
568
00:26:32.949 --> 00:26:36.302
[train horn blares]
569
00:26:37.954 --> 00:26:40.422
- Heidnik's house
was in the 25th district,
570
00:26:40.433 --> 00:26:42.049
Which, at that time,
571
00:26:42.084 --> 00:26:44.509
Was one of the busiest
districts in the city.
572
00:26:44.586 --> 00:26:48.055
30 years ago, they didn't have
the access to, you know,
573
00:26:48.131 --> 00:26:50.891
Information right on the spot
like they do now.
574
00:26:50.926 --> 00:26:52.893
So that meant the officer
would've had to come in
575
00:26:52.928 --> 00:26:54.936
Off the street,
into the operations room
576
00:26:54.947 --> 00:26:56.271
Or to the detective division
577
00:26:56.282 --> 00:26:58.065
To try to have them--
what we call
578
00:26:58.141 --> 00:27:01.234
"run the information
through the computer."
579
00:27:01.269 --> 00:27:02.569
The officer
that went to the house
580
00:27:02.604 --> 00:27:04.112
Was given incorrect information
581
00:27:04.123 --> 00:27:06.457
In terms of the spelling
of heidnik's name.
582
00:27:06.533 --> 00:27:08.959
- Gary heidnik--
do you spell it I-e?
583
00:27:09.036 --> 00:27:10.911
Do you spell it e-I?
584
00:27:10.987 --> 00:27:12.537
It could be either way.
585
00:27:12.614 --> 00:27:14.915
So you don't try
different combinations?
586
00:27:14.950 --> 00:27:16.124
And that was the testimony,
587
00:27:16.135 --> 00:27:18.302
That he didn't try
different combinations.
588
00:27:18.379 --> 00:27:20.253
- Based upon that
misspelling of the name,
589
00:27:20.288 --> 00:27:22.923
The officer was not able
to find out
590
00:27:22.999 --> 00:27:25.050
That heidnik did have
a prior record.
591
00:27:25.127 --> 00:27:26.968
- And the effort was made,
592
00:27:26.979 --> 00:27:28.303
The box was ticked,
593
00:27:28.314 --> 00:27:29.805
And we move on.
594
00:27:29.815 --> 00:27:33.392
And it wasn't
a thorough investigation.
595
00:27:33.468 --> 00:27:35.102
- Bad policing.
596
00:27:35.178 --> 00:27:37.813
He had a prior record
for abusing women.
597
00:27:37.823 --> 00:27:39.981
♪ ♪
598
00:27:39.992 --> 00:27:42.401
- In '78,
he had a common-law wife
599
00:27:42.477 --> 00:27:44.444
By the name
of anjeanette davidson.
600
00:27:44.521 --> 00:27:46.446
She was mentally disabled.
601
00:27:46.481 --> 00:27:50.167
She had a sister,
alberta davidson,
602
00:27:50.244 --> 00:27:53.504
Who had been
in a mental institution
603
00:27:53.580 --> 00:27:56.289
Since the time she was 14.
604
00:27:56.366 --> 00:28:00.168
Anjeanette and gary went out
to visit her one day.
605
00:28:00.179 --> 00:28:03.088
They brought her
back to philadelphia.
606
00:28:03.165 --> 00:28:06.425
He then proceeded to rape her
607
00:28:06.501 --> 00:28:10.020
And not return her to the
institute as he had promised.
608
00:28:10.097 --> 00:28:11.304
[knock at door]
609
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:13.640
Doctors who were
caring for her
610
00:28:13.717 --> 00:28:15.526
Came to philadelphia,
confronted him.
611
00:28:15.602 --> 00:28:18.478
Found her locked
in a storage area
612
00:28:18.555 --> 00:28:20.364
In the apartment building.
613
00:28:20.441 --> 00:28:23.358
The institute contacted the
police here in philadelphia.
614
00:28:23.369 --> 00:28:25.944
He was convicted
of kidnapping,
615
00:28:26.021 --> 00:28:29.373
Interference with the custody
of a disabled person,
616
00:28:29.450 --> 00:28:32.159
And reckless endangering
another person.
617
00:28:32.194 --> 00:28:34.494
He was sentenced to three
to seven years in prison.
618
00:28:34.571 --> 00:28:38.039
♪ ♪
619
00:28:38.050 --> 00:28:40.000
He got out in '83.
620
00:28:40.035 --> 00:28:44.337
The whole episode
with the davidson sisters,
621
00:28:44.414 --> 00:28:46.339
I believe, is prime example
622
00:28:46.416 --> 00:28:50.177
Of the maliciousness
and the depravity of this man.
623
00:28:50.253 --> 00:28:52.137
♪ ♪
624
00:28:52.214 --> 00:28:54.389
- That is where
he went to prison,
625
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.683
But he had many encounters
with women
626
00:28:56.718 --> 00:28:59.352
Where he absolutely
petrified them.
627
00:28:59.429 --> 00:29:01.905
♪ ♪
628
00:29:01.982 --> 00:29:05.233
Gary raped
his mail-order bride daily
629
00:29:05.244 --> 00:29:07.360
And beat her daily.
630
00:29:07.395 --> 00:29:10.197
So finally she escaped
and went to a home
631
00:29:10.232 --> 00:29:11.531
Where they gave her
some guidance.
632
00:29:11.608 --> 00:29:13.366
And she went
to the authorities.
633
00:29:13.443 --> 00:29:17.087
They arrested him for it--
spousal sexual assault.
634
00:29:17.164 --> 00:29:20.090
But she was
so deathly afraid of him,
635
00:29:20.167 --> 00:29:22.667
And she wasn't about to
step foot in that courtroom
636
00:29:22.744 --> 00:29:25.921
Without a guarantee that
he would never get out of jail.
637
00:29:25.931 --> 00:29:27.598
He was never
even convicted of it
638
00:29:27.674 --> 00:29:29.933
Because she didn't show up
to testify.
639
00:29:30.010 --> 00:29:33.386
♪ ♪
640
00:29:33.421 --> 00:29:35.555
- Had that officer
been able to find out
641
00:29:35.632 --> 00:29:37.557
The correct spelling
of heidnik's name
642
00:29:37.592 --> 00:29:40.227
And that heidnik
did have a prior record
643
00:29:40.303 --> 00:29:42.229
For kidnapping and rape,
644
00:29:42.305 --> 00:29:45.106
Things may have been
very different.
645
00:29:45.117 --> 00:29:47.275
- I don't like to play
the race card,
646
00:29:47.286 --> 00:29:49.110
But I have to say
647
00:29:49.121 --> 00:29:51.238
That the handwriting's
on the wall in this case.
648
00:29:51.314 --> 00:29:56.034
The fact that sandra
was from a poor black family
649
00:29:56.111 --> 00:29:57.452
Who doesn't have
any connections,
650
00:29:57.463 --> 00:30:01.623
I think that that's what ended
the investigation.
651
00:30:01.634 --> 00:30:05.544
- Very often
cases are "broken"
652
00:30:05.620 --> 00:30:07.971
Because somebody says,
"hey, wait a minute.
653
00:30:08.048 --> 00:30:10.090
"let me take
a second look at this,
654
00:30:10.166 --> 00:30:11.550
Maybe a third look."
655
00:30:11.626 --> 00:30:14.261
But in this case,
it didn't happen.
656
00:30:14.296 --> 00:30:15.971
- You have good cops
and bad cops
657
00:30:15.981 --> 00:30:18.265
And stupid cops and smart cops.
658
00:30:18.300 --> 00:30:20.475
We had a lazy and stupid cop,
659
00:30:20.486 --> 00:30:24.437
Which is a lethal combination
for sandra.
660
00:30:24.514 --> 00:30:27.440
♪ ♪
661
00:30:27.517 --> 00:30:31.995
- It was quite a few times that
we heard pounding at the door.
662
00:30:32.072 --> 00:30:34.114
I never questioned him,
sandra never questioned him
663
00:30:34.149 --> 00:30:36.449
About who's at the door
or anything like that.
664
00:30:36.484 --> 00:30:38.502
[door opens, creaks]
665
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:40.412
Heidnik came downstairs,
666
00:30:40.488 --> 00:30:43.290
And he had on
these rubber gloves,
667
00:30:43.366 --> 00:30:46.293
And he had this pen, paper,
and envelope.
668
00:30:46.369 --> 00:30:47.502
And he told sandra,
669
00:30:47.513 --> 00:30:50.297
"okay, you're gonna sit down
and write this letter.
670
00:30:50.332 --> 00:30:54.301
"'hey, mom, you know, I'm fine.
I'm going to new york.
671
00:30:54.377 --> 00:30:57.137
"'I'm having a great time.
Don't worry about me.
672
00:30:57.213 --> 00:31:00.015
You don't have to look for me.
I'll be home soon.'"
673
00:31:00.025 --> 00:31:02.309
♪ ♪
674
00:31:02.385 --> 00:31:05.020
Then he told sandra
to make sure
675
00:31:05.030 --> 00:31:06.688
She touched the whole paper,
676
00:31:06.699 --> 00:31:08.198
Like, you know,
feel it all up
677
00:31:08.275 --> 00:31:10.033
So her prints
would be on there.
678
00:31:10.110 --> 00:31:12.110
Then he made her do
the envelope the same way,
679
00:31:12.187 --> 00:31:15.155
And he made her lick
the envelope herself.
680
00:31:15.231 --> 00:31:17.490
- You have gary heidnik
driving to new york.
681
00:31:17.525 --> 00:31:19.492
- Heidnik then mailed
that letter
682
00:31:19.569 --> 00:31:21.661
From new york
to jeanette perkins
683
00:31:21.738 --> 00:31:25.040
To defer them from trying
to come back to his house
684
00:31:25.050 --> 00:31:27.542
And find their sister
and daughter.
685
00:31:27.553 --> 00:31:31.379
- He was gone for a long time,
like, hours.
686
00:31:31.390 --> 00:31:32.714
We heard the car when it left,
687
00:31:32.725 --> 00:31:35.675
And then we heard the car
when it came back.
688
00:31:35.752 --> 00:31:39.554
There was times where we were
in the hole for hours.
689
00:31:39.565 --> 00:31:42.474
And the thing was, what if
something happened to him
690
00:31:42.550 --> 00:31:44.067
While he was out?
691
00:31:44.144 --> 00:31:46.311
Who was gonna find us then?
692
00:31:46.388 --> 00:31:48.739
So, when he came home,
I told him
693
00:31:48.815 --> 00:31:51.358
I knew he was gone for, like,
hours and hours and hours.
694
00:31:51.434 --> 00:31:53.193
And he was like, "really?"
695
00:31:53.269 --> 00:31:54.428
And then he
kind of distinguished
696
00:31:54.504 --> 00:31:56.529
That we knew when he was coming
in and out the house.
697
00:31:56.564 --> 00:31:58.239
And I remember him saying,
698
00:31:58.250 --> 00:32:01.076
"well, I have a solution
for that."
699
00:32:01.086 --> 00:32:02.410
He went back upstairs,
700
00:32:02.421 --> 00:32:05.705
And then he came downstairs
to the basement.
701
00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:07.591
He had
a phillips screwdriver,
702
00:32:07.668 --> 00:32:09.709
And he's, like,
taking these screwdrivers,
703
00:32:09.786 --> 00:32:12.545
He says, "I'm just gonna dig
everybody's eardrums out
704
00:32:12.622 --> 00:32:14.881
So you wouldn't be
able to hear."
705
00:32:14.916 --> 00:32:19.552
And he was just, like,
digging them in our ears,
706
00:32:19.629 --> 00:32:21.513
Trying to get in our eardrums.
707
00:32:21.589 --> 00:32:24.891
It was horrifying.
708
00:32:24.926 --> 00:32:28.561
It was horrifying,
'cause it really hurt.
709
00:32:28.596 --> 00:32:31.231
It really hurt.
710
00:32:31.266 --> 00:32:34.567
It's just so hard to explain
because it was just so unreal,
711
00:32:34.602 --> 00:32:36.736
You know, that somebody
would want to torture
712
00:32:36.813 --> 00:32:40.407
And hurt somebody that badly,
to be that ruthless,
713
00:32:40.483 --> 00:32:42.450
You know, to want to cause
somebody else's pain,
714
00:32:42.461 --> 00:32:44.869
It's just--it's just
really hard to believe
715
00:32:44.946 --> 00:32:46.630
That somebody
would even do that.
716
00:32:46.707 --> 00:32:48.873
♪ ♪
717
00:32:48.950 --> 00:32:50.300
Whether we could hear or not,
718
00:32:50.377 --> 00:32:51.876
We still knew when he was
coming in and out.
719
00:32:51.953 --> 00:32:54.421
The garage was right next
to where the basement is.
720
00:32:54.497 --> 00:32:56.423
You know,
when he start the engine,
721
00:32:56.499 --> 00:32:58.758
You know, the basement floor
would vibrate.
722
00:32:58.835 --> 00:33:02.637
♪ ♪
723
00:33:02.648 --> 00:33:05.890
Me and sandra
were in the basement.
724
00:33:05.967 --> 00:33:09.310
I could hear people
walking up above us.
725
00:33:09.321 --> 00:33:11.271
And then we can hear
another girl
726
00:33:11.306 --> 00:33:13.606
Coming down the steps, crying.
727
00:33:13.641 --> 00:33:17.828
He puts the shackles
around her ankles and stuff.
728
00:33:17.904 --> 00:33:20.780
He introduced her--
"this is lisa."
729
00:33:20.815 --> 00:33:23.825
- And he took me
down the cellar,
730
00:33:23.836 --> 00:33:25.785
And I seen
all these bags, right?
731
00:33:25.820 --> 00:33:27.504
I thought there were
body parts in there.
732
00:33:27.581 --> 00:33:29.414
I said, "don't kill me,
don't kill me."
733
00:33:29.491 --> 00:33:30.623
He said,
"no, I'm not gonna kill you.
734
00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:32.342
Trust me,
I'm not gonna kill you."
735
00:33:32.419 --> 00:33:34.335
♪ ♪
736
00:33:34.346 --> 00:33:36.671
- Lisa thomas was
one of the younger women.
737
00:33:36.682 --> 00:33:38.173
She was 19, I believe.
738
00:33:38.183 --> 00:33:42.635
I don't know
why he picked her out.
739
00:33:42.712 --> 00:33:45.305
- Lisa thomas,
she was streetwise.
740
00:33:45.381 --> 00:33:46.848
- She says
she was not a prostitute.
741
00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:48.358
I'll take her at her word.
742
00:33:48.435 --> 00:33:50.643
He pulled up in the flashy car,
743
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.363
Asked her to get in,
took her shopping.
744
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:55.365
But getting in that car
745
00:33:55.442 --> 00:33:58.818
Was the worst decision
she ever made.
746
00:33:58.895 --> 00:34:01.488
Maybe she thought that this guy
was paying attention to her
747
00:34:01.564 --> 00:34:03.615
And buying her things
and liked her.
748
00:34:03.691 --> 00:34:04.949
Nobody really knows.
749
00:34:05.026 --> 00:34:06.701
She willingly had sex with him,
750
00:34:06.712 --> 00:34:08.870
And then the next thing
you know, she wakes up,
751
00:34:08.881 --> 00:34:12.332
And she's tied with the rest
of the women in his basement.
752
00:34:12.408 --> 00:34:18.388
♪ ♪
753
00:34:22.635 --> 00:34:25.345
[dramatic music]
754
00:34:25.421 --> 00:34:27.013
♪ ♪
755
00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:29.015
- After lisa got there,
756
00:34:29.092 --> 00:34:30.809
He came down,
and he put her in the hole.
757
00:34:30.885 --> 00:34:33.686
And at that point,
it was really only enough room
758
00:34:33.721 --> 00:34:37.398
For two people still to be
in the hole at one time.
759
00:34:37.409 --> 00:34:38.742
Three people wouldn't fit.
760
00:34:38.819 --> 00:34:41.861
So then it got that
sandra and lisa
761
00:34:41.896 --> 00:34:44.656
Would be the two
to stay in the hole
762
00:34:44.732 --> 00:34:46.533
And I would just be
in the basement
763
00:34:46.609 --> 00:34:48.910
'cause he couldn't fit me
in there.
764
00:34:48.921 --> 00:34:52.539
- Once he had multiple victims
in his basement,
765
00:34:52.615 --> 00:34:54.749
He would sort of set up
this hierarchy,
766
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:57.377
And he was playing victims
against each other.
767
00:34:57.453 --> 00:35:01.047
Josefina became his favorite
because josefina was the best
768
00:35:01.124 --> 00:35:04.434
At giving him
that kind of adoration,
769
00:35:04.511 --> 00:35:07.428
Reassurance that
he wouldn't be abandoned,
770
00:35:07.439 --> 00:35:10.932
That he was handsome
and sexy and good-looking
771
00:35:10.943 --> 00:35:13.726
And whatever he needed
or wanted.
772
00:35:13.803 --> 00:35:17.280
She realized, "if I give him
what he wants here,
773
00:35:17.357 --> 00:35:20.951
You know,
I can live another day."
774
00:35:21.027 --> 00:35:22.735
- After the first month,
775
00:35:22.770 --> 00:35:25.738
Then he would start taking me
up for a bath,
776
00:35:25.815 --> 00:35:27.574
And those were times
when, you know,
777
00:35:27.650 --> 00:35:29.576
He would talk
about different things.
778
00:35:29.652 --> 00:35:32.078
You know,
the more I learned about him
779
00:35:32.113 --> 00:35:35.957
From him speaking to me
and what I learned from sandra,
780
00:35:35.968 --> 00:35:37.917
That gave me
that kind of insight.
781
00:35:37.994 --> 00:35:41.087
If I was more on his side,
782
00:35:41.122 --> 00:35:43.047
It would be more in my favor
783
00:35:43.124 --> 00:35:46.384
To be able to try
to find a way out of here.
784
00:35:46.461 --> 00:35:48.386
You know,
he would talk about things
785
00:35:48.463 --> 00:35:50.480
That he wanted to do
in the future,
786
00:35:50.557 --> 00:35:53.433
And it would just be
these women and these babies.
787
00:35:53.468 --> 00:35:54.934
♪ ♪
788
00:35:55.011 --> 00:35:57.604
- He was trying to get
these girls pregnant.
789
00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:00.732
He wanted to raise
a perfect race
790
00:36:00.808 --> 00:36:03.818
With no influence
from the outside world
791
00:36:03.829 --> 00:36:06.112
In his basement.
792
00:36:06.147 --> 00:36:11.001
♪ ♪
793
00:36:11.077 --> 00:36:14.454
- He didn't put us in the hole
every time he went out.
794
00:36:14.489 --> 00:36:16.080
It was basically when
he was going to be gone
795
00:36:16.157 --> 00:36:18.499
For, like, hours.
796
00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:20.510
We were just in the basement,
797
00:36:20.587 --> 00:36:22.128
And you could feel
the vibrations in the house,
798
00:36:22.163 --> 00:36:23.630
You know, him walking.
799
00:36:23.665 --> 00:36:26.466
And so we hear
the basement door open,
800
00:36:26.542 --> 00:36:28.760
And I heard struggling.
801
00:36:28.836 --> 00:36:31.137
We all look up, and we can see
the bottom of her legs
802
00:36:31.172 --> 00:36:32.764
Coming down the steps.
803
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:34.515
And I'm, like, sitting there,
saying to myself,
804
00:36:34.526 --> 00:36:36.809
"oh, my god,
there's another girl."
805
00:36:36.844 --> 00:36:40.021
And then he's introducing us--
"this is deborah dudley."
806
00:36:40.032 --> 00:36:42.532
♪ ♪
807
00:36:42.609 --> 00:36:44.817
- Deborah dudley
was a prostitute
808
00:36:44.894 --> 00:36:48.696
Who easily got
in gary heidnik's fancy car.
809
00:36:48.707 --> 00:36:51.866
Go back to the house,
sex with him.
810
00:36:51.877 --> 00:36:56.162
She's downstairs,
tied up with the rest of them.
811
00:36:56.197 --> 00:36:59.832
- Deborah johnson dudley
was a tough street girl,
812
00:36:59.867 --> 00:37:03.002
A very fiery person.
813
00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:06.798
And she gave him
a lot of fight.
814
00:37:06.874 --> 00:37:09.467
- Deborah dudley
never stopped fighting.
815
00:37:09.544 --> 00:37:11.678
She was very resistant
816
00:37:11.754 --> 00:37:13.888
And always gave gary
a hard time.
817
00:37:13.899 --> 00:37:16.057
- From the beginning,
deborah kept acting up,
818
00:37:16.068 --> 00:37:17.976
And I mean acting up
and acting up
819
00:37:18.052 --> 00:37:20.561
And howling and screaming
and, you know,
820
00:37:20.572 --> 00:37:23.573
Being defiant and rebellious.
821
00:37:23.650 --> 00:37:26.576
♪ ♪
822
00:37:26.653 --> 00:37:30.488
And I remember right after he
had beat her so bad one time,
823
00:37:30.565 --> 00:37:32.824
And I was like, "you know,
well, this is not working,
824
00:37:32.900 --> 00:37:34.033
"so why do you want to sit here
825
00:37:34.110 --> 00:37:35.868
"and keep making him
torture you?
826
00:37:35.945 --> 00:37:37.537
"you just really got to
straighten up
827
00:37:37.613 --> 00:37:38.421
And pull this together."
828
00:37:38.498 --> 00:37:40.707
She's like, "why?
Am I gonna die here?"
829
00:37:40.742 --> 00:37:41.941
Absolutely you are
830
00:37:42.018 --> 00:37:46.713
If we keep going in this
direction that you're going in.
831
00:37:46.748 --> 00:37:50.675
♪ ♪
832
00:37:50.752 --> 00:37:53.845
- It was January the 18th.
833
00:37:53.921 --> 00:37:57.056
I was working
on 16th and poplar,
834
00:37:57.091 --> 00:38:00.518
And when I seen
gary heidnik car,
835
00:38:00.595 --> 00:38:03.730
He said, "well, how much
would you charge me?"
836
00:38:03.806 --> 00:38:05.690
It was this other girl,
837
00:38:05.767 --> 00:38:09.569
And me and her was actually
arguing over gary heidnik.
838
00:38:09.604 --> 00:38:11.904
And he ended up picking me.
839
00:38:11.981 --> 00:38:14.240
I got in the car,
and he was like,
840
00:38:14.275 --> 00:38:15.742
"I just want to spend some time
with you,
841
00:38:15.818 --> 00:38:18.420
Talk to you,
take you out to eat."
842
00:38:19.822 --> 00:38:24.542
We had dinner, you know,
and I let my guard down.
843
00:38:24.619 --> 00:38:26.544
So now we leave, he say,
844
00:38:26.621 --> 00:38:28.972
"well, jackie, I got to stop
at the house to take the cake
845
00:38:29.049 --> 00:38:30.798
'cause today is
my daughter birthday."
846
00:38:30.809 --> 00:38:33.143
And I'm like, "okay."
847
00:38:33.219 --> 00:38:36.054
[door opens, creaks]
848
00:38:36.130 --> 00:38:40.600
He got an old video game
that used to be out--"dig dug."
849
00:38:40.676 --> 00:38:42.810
That's the first time
I ever played the game.
850
00:38:42.821 --> 00:38:44.479
He was playing with me.
851
00:38:44.489 --> 00:38:48.107
For some reason, he, like,
slid off, you know,
852
00:38:48.184 --> 00:38:50.777
And I, like,
kept looking back behind me
853
00:38:50.853 --> 00:38:53.946
But not trying to show him
that I was kind of scared.
854
00:38:54.023 --> 00:38:56.157
And out of nowhere, he just...
[exhales sharply]
855
00:38:56.168 --> 00:38:57.992
Grabbed me
from the back of my neck.
856
00:38:58.003 --> 00:38:59.952
♪ ♪
857
00:38:59.987 --> 00:39:01.095
As we fighting,
858
00:39:01.097 --> 00:39:04.674
I see he got some stuff
behind the video game--
859
00:39:04.751 --> 00:39:07.010
Hammers, a pick.
860
00:39:07.087 --> 00:39:09.962
I was trying to get to
one of them to get him.
861
00:39:09.997 --> 00:39:11.681
I wanted him off of me.
862
00:39:11.758 --> 00:39:15.134
We fought and fought,
and he put the handcuffs on
863
00:39:15.169 --> 00:39:19.138
And started guiding me
towards the basement.
864
00:39:19.215 --> 00:39:22.809
♪ ♪
865
00:39:22.844 --> 00:39:25.520
I get down there.
I see three girls.
866
00:39:25.530 --> 00:39:28.022
Some had clothes on,
and some didn't.
867
00:39:28.033 --> 00:39:30.024
One girl, she was crying.
868
00:39:30.035 --> 00:39:32.151
♪ ♪
869
00:39:32.228 --> 00:39:35.655
Gary heidnik put me
in this hole in that basement
870
00:39:35.690 --> 00:39:38.708
And threw these bags on me
and told me he'd be back.
871
00:39:40.862 --> 00:39:43.830
I screamed and screamed
and screamed,
872
00:39:43.906 --> 00:39:46.666
And I remember josefina rivera
coming over there.
873
00:39:46.742 --> 00:39:48.626
She like, "shut up.
I got you.
874
00:39:48.703 --> 00:39:51.879
I'ma get you out of here,
but you got to be patient."
875
00:39:51.890 --> 00:39:54.173
And I be like,
"no, I want to get out now."
876
00:39:54.250 --> 00:39:57.218
- She was 18 years old.
She was really young.
877
00:39:57.229 --> 00:39:59.679
And I don't think
she understood
878
00:39:59.714 --> 00:40:02.723
The severity of the situation.
879
00:40:02.734 --> 00:40:06.569
- He came down.
He stripped me.
880
00:40:06.646 --> 00:40:09.814
Then he started beating me
with a blackjack.
881
00:40:09.891 --> 00:40:12.191
So I was just saying,
"I want to go home."
882
00:40:12.226 --> 00:40:15.912
Anything I could say to him
so he could let me go.
883
00:40:15.989 --> 00:40:17.864
And he wasn't.
884
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:20.199
I just didn't know
he wasn't letting me go.
885
00:40:20.234 --> 00:40:22.160
♪ ♪
886
00:40:22.236 --> 00:40:25.371
- The day after jackie
got there was my birthday.
887
00:40:25.406 --> 00:40:26.873
And it was, like,
so unbelievable.
888
00:40:26.949 --> 00:40:28.082
I'm like, "really?
889
00:40:28.093 --> 00:40:30.042
I'm really celebrating
my birthday here?"
890
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:33.763
He came back
with food from takeout,
891
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:37.258
A birthday cake,
and a birthday present.
892
00:40:37.269 --> 00:40:40.261
♪ ♪
893
00:40:40.272 --> 00:40:44.774
They sung "happy birthday."
we ate chinese food.
894
00:40:44.851 --> 00:40:46.017
I opened up a present.
895
00:40:46.093 --> 00:40:47.944
He bought me
a pair of slippers.
896
00:40:48.021 --> 00:40:50.897
I don't think I've had
a birthday party since then.
897
00:40:50.973 --> 00:40:53.733
That made me think that he
went through so much effort,
898
00:40:53.809 --> 00:40:56.068
That he went out and he planned
this whole birthday party,
899
00:40:56.103 --> 00:40:57.945
And I'm like,
"well, you're not gonna do that
900
00:40:57.956 --> 00:41:00.907
For somebody
that you don't like."
901
00:41:00.983 --> 00:41:05.912
I said, "okay, so he has a soft
spot for me, apparently."
902
00:41:05.988 --> 00:41:07.955
♪ ♪
903
00:41:07.966 --> 00:41:10.800
I remember that record
"stand by me" came on,
904
00:41:10.877 --> 00:41:15.129
And he danced with me
on that song "stand by me."
905
00:41:15.140 --> 00:41:17.182
Yeah.
[scoffs]
906
00:41:18.793 --> 00:41:20.718
For some reason,
he just thought
907
00:41:20.795 --> 00:41:22.929
That I was on his side
and, you know,
908
00:41:23.005 --> 00:41:26.766
I was standing by him and--
you know what I mean?
909
00:41:26.842 --> 00:41:29.894
So I said, "okay, let me see
what I can do with this,"
910
00:41:29.971 --> 00:41:32.063
But there wasn't
no brilliant plan.
911
00:41:32.139 --> 00:41:34.941
I kind of took everything
on a day-by-day.
912
00:41:34.976 --> 00:41:37.818
You know, I was hoping
that it was going somewhere.
913
00:41:37.829 --> 00:41:44.834
♪ ♪
914
00:41:47.822 --> 00:41:50.831
- Everybody had a chain
that was separated,
915
00:41:50.842 --> 00:41:55.294
Like, 30 paces apart
so that it was big enough
916
00:41:55.329 --> 00:41:58.130
Where he can get between us
to have sex,
917
00:41:58.207 --> 00:42:00.466
And we could walk around.
918
00:42:00.501 --> 00:42:03.970
♪ ♪
919
00:42:04.046 --> 00:42:05.204
We would get up.
920
00:42:05.281 --> 00:42:09.141
We didn't know if we was gonna
eat the next day or not.
921
00:42:09.218 --> 00:42:11.143
I mean,
gary heidnik used to tell us
922
00:42:11.220 --> 00:42:14.021
That he gonna give us a glass
of water and some bread.
923
00:42:14.032 --> 00:42:16.699
And we had to work our way up
924
00:42:16.776 --> 00:42:19.860
To getting our clothes, a bed.
925
00:42:19.871 --> 00:42:22.989
I don't think we was meant
to come out of that basement.
926
00:42:23.024 --> 00:42:25.917
He put a grave
in that basement.
927
00:42:27.453 --> 00:42:30.997
I know you're supposed to say
if I accept jesus christ
928
00:42:31.073 --> 00:42:33.383
As my savior,
god will come with you.
929
00:42:33.459 --> 00:42:36.168
Well, I need you now.
We all need you.
930
00:42:36.245 --> 00:42:38.337
So I just picked up the bible
931
00:42:38.372 --> 00:42:41.215
And just started reading
that verse every day.
932
00:42:41.226 --> 00:42:43.718
I thought that was my way
of getting closer to god
933
00:42:43.728 --> 00:42:46.012
And him helping us
out of there.
934
00:42:46.088 --> 00:42:50.233
♪ ♪
935
00:42:54.387 --> 00:42:56.906
[dramatic music]
936
00:42:56.983 --> 00:42:59.191
- The last time jackie saw me
was in the basement.
937
00:42:59.226 --> 00:43:01.986
We never had
that closure part.
938
00:43:02.063 --> 00:43:04.196
To see each other
being all right,
939
00:43:04.273 --> 00:43:06.532
Being able to talk
to each other about, you know,
940
00:43:06.609 --> 00:43:08.492
What happened,
and you haven't said,
941
00:43:08.569 --> 00:43:11.370
"hey, we made it, we're free,"
you know what I'm saying?
942
00:43:11.447 --> 00:43:13.539
And it's, like--
all that was missing.
943
00:43:13.616 --> 00:43:16.876
♪ ♪
944
00:43:16.911 --> 00:43:19.086
- Actually, I'm gonna be
talking to rivera.
945
00:43:19.097 --> 00:43:21.931
I ain't seen her in 30 years.
946
00:43:22.008 --> 00:43:23.116
Me and her got to talk
947
00:43:23.192 --> 00:43:28.179
Because I got a burden
on my shoulder about her,
948
00:43:28.255 --> 00:43:30.181
And it's not a good one.
949
00:43:30.257 --> 00:43:32.183
She took so much from me
950
00:43:32.259 --> 00:43:36.062
That I didn't know
how to forgive her.
951
00:43:36.138 --> 00:43:38.105
- I really--I'm looking forward
to seeing jackie.
952
00:43:38.116 --> 00:43:41.359
I hope I'll be able to make
her feel better, you know,
953
00:43:41.435 --> 00:43:45.237
To make things a little easier
in her mind and in her life.
954
00:43:45.272 --> 00:43:48.574
♪ ♪
955
00:43:48.651 --> 00:43:51.294
Sandra wasn't feeling
all that great,
956
00:43:51.371 --> 00:43:54.080
And she wasn't eating.
957
00:43:54.156 --> 00:43:55.956
Gary thought that
she was pregnant,
958
00:43:55.967 --> 00:44:00.544
And he was constantly
trying to force-feed her.
959
00:44:00.621 --> 00:44:02.421
She wasn't going for it.
960
00:44:02.498 --> 00:44:04.256
I knew she wasn't feeling well,
and I was like,
961
00:44:04.291 --> 00:44:06.217
"sandra, just try
to eat something.
962
00:44:06.293 --> 00:44:08.219
"you know, you don't
have to eat everything,
963
00:44:08.295 --> 00:44:09.595
"but just try to eat something,
964
00:44:09.630 --> 00:44:12.390
You know,
to kind of sustain yourself."
965
00:44:12.466 --> 00:44:14.141
In the frame of mind
that he's in,
966
00:44:14.152 --> 00:44:16.102
He thought
she was being rebellious.
967
00:44:16.178 --> 00:44:17.978
I said, "this is not
going in the direction
968
00:44:17.989 --> 00:44:19.438
It needs to be going on."
969
00:44:19.473 --> 00:44:21.440
And then when he started
punishing her,
970
00:44:21.475 --> 00:44:24.318
I'm like, "oh, my god."
that was really hard for me.
971
00:44:24.329 --> 00:44:28.280
- He locked her up
on the ceiling,
972
00:44:28.315 --> 00:44:30.449
And he tells sandy,
973
00:44:30.484 --> 00:44:31.483
"chew something,"
974
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.170
And she wouldn't chew it
fast enough for him.
975
00:44:34.247 --> 00:44:36.622
- So he was kind of forcing
the food in her mouth,
976
00:44:36.699 --> 00:44:39.125
And at the same time,
he was, like, beating her.
977
00:44:39.160 --> 00:44:40.584
You know,
"eat the food, sandra.
978
00:44:40.661 --> 00:44:42.086
Eat it, eat it, eat it."
979
00:44:42.163 --> 00:44:45.423
- So next thing I know,
she went limp.
980
00:44:45.499 --> 00:44:47.633
- And he just put the key
in the handcuff
981
00:44:47.710 --> 00:44:49.427
And just turned it.
982
00:44:49.503 --> 00:44:52.513
And it came off her arm,
and she fell--psh.
983
00:44:52.524 --> 00:44:55.474
♪ ♪
984
00:44:55.509 --> 00:44:57.143
- And I ran over to her,
985
00:44:57.178 --> 00:44:59.186
But he told us
to get away from her.
986
00:44:59.197 --> 00:45:00.363
And he checked her.
987
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:02.314
- She was gone.
988
00:45:02.349 --> 00:45:04.358
♪ ♪
989
00:45:04.369 --> 00:45:06.193
And he was really upset.
990
00:45:06.204 --> 00:45:09.155
He was like,
"now I lost another baby."
991
00:45:09.190 --> 00:45:11.657
♪ ♪
992
00:45:11.734 --> 00:45:16.287
It was just so sad for me,
you know, when sandra died.
993
00:45:16.363 --> 00:45:18.330
I was so brokenhearted.
994
00:45:18.365 --> 00:45:20.124
We, you know,
had a relationship.
995
00:45:20.201 --> 00:45:23.669
We spent many hours
in that hole together.
996
00:45:23.746 --> 00:45:25.504
She's been with me here
from the beginning.
997
00:45:25.581 --> 00:45:27.557
I just thought
that was just the end.
998
00:45:27.633 --> 00:45:30.676
♪ ♪
999
00:45:30.753 --> 00:45:34.138
- I remember when she died,
1000
00:45:34.215 --> 00:45:36.724
It hit gary heidnik so hard
1001
00:45:36.735 --> 00:45:40.311
That rivera told debbie
1002
00:45:40.387 --> 00:45:43.022
To stay
out of gary heidnik way,
1003
00:45:43.057 --> 00:45:47.359
Because gary heidnik blamed
debbie for sandy's death.
1004
00:45:47.436 --> 00:45:50.029
And we didn't understand why.
1005
00:45:50.064 --> 00:45:53.324
But it's whatever
josefina rivera told him.
1006
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:55.159
She had to put everything on us
1007
00:45:55.236 --> 00:45:57.587
To make it seem like
we was the troublemakers
1008
00:45:57.663 --> 00:46:00.539
And she was just
going with the flow.
1009
00:46:00.616 --> 00:46:04.585
It was just all lies
that she was telling
1010
00:46:04.596 --> 00:46:08.214
For us to get in trouble.
1011
00:46:08.249 --> 00:46:12.343
- He was out to establish
in that hole
1012
00:46:12.419 --> 00:46:16.055
Grandiosity of wanting to be
in control and the master.
1013
00:46:16.090 --> 00:46:18.557
He never saw beyond it
to, like,
1014
00:46:18.592 --> 00:46:22.186
The sheer practicalities
of having that many women,
1015
00:46:22.263 --> 00:46:25.523
You know, in your basement,
trying to take care of them.
1016
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:28.567
"care" is a horrible word
for it.
1017
00:46:28.602 --> 00:46:33.280
- Josefina was the only victim
who was clever enough
1018
00:46:33.291 --> 00:46:36.125
To know that he was constantly
gonna be watching her.
1019
00:46:36.202 --> 00:46:40.120
So josefina
would discipline the girls
1020
00:46:40.131 --> 00:46:41.539
When gary wasn't there.
1021
00:46:41.615 --> 00:46:45.584
She convinced gary heidnik
that she was his ally,
1022
00:46:45.619 --> 00:46:47.127
That she would help him.
1023
00:46:47.138 --> 00:46:53.759
♪ ♪
1024
00:46:53.836 --> 00:46:57.471
- The following day, there was
this horrible, horrible smell
1025
00:46:57.482 --> 00:46:59.765
That I will never forget
in my life.
1026
00:46:59.842 --> 00:47:01.267
It was bad.
1027
00:47:01.343 --> 00:47:04.311
And we could not figure out
what was going on,
1028
00:47:04.322 --> 00:47:08.491
But we know this odor
was consuming the whole house.
1029
00:47:08.568 --> 00:47:10.442
- It smelled awful.
1030
00:47:10.477 --> 00:47:12.161
It's coming from gary's house.
1031
00:47:12.238 --> 00:47:15.239
And my father says,
"it smells like a dead body.
1032
00:47:15.316 --> 00:47:16.782
It's disgusting."
1033
00:47:16.817 --> 00:47:19.785
So we called the police
1034
00:47:19.820 --> 00:47:21.620
Because we couldn't get anybody
1035
00:47:21.655 --> 00:47:24.790
To answer the door
at gary's house.
1036
00:47:24.825 --> 00:47:27.251
An officer came,
1037
00:47:27.328 --> 00:47:30.254
And all of a sudden,
gary's front door opens.
1038
00:47:30.331 --> 00:47:32.673
And it was gary.
1039
00:47:32.684 --> 00:47:37.177
I says,
"gary, what is that smell?"
1040
00:47:37.188 --> 00:47:41.140
He says, "yeah, I burnt
the roast in the oven."
1041
00:47:41.175 --> 00:47:43.309
So the officer left,
1042
00:47:43.344 --> 00:47:46.195
And gary apologized
for the smell,
1043
00:47:46.272 --> 00:47:48.314
And then he went back
in the house,
1044
00:47:48.349 --> 00:47:50.316
And then we went back
in our house.
1045
00:47:50.351 --> 00:47:52.693
♪ ♪
1046
00:47:52.704 --> 00:47:56.155
- Now all of the windows--
he's got them all sealed
1047
00:47:56.190 --> 00:48:00.492
So that these girl can't scream
or know who's walking outside.
1048
00:48:00.569 --> 00:48:02.494
Do you think
one of the cops would say,
1049
00:48:02.529 --> 00:48:05.831
"well, why don't you open the
windows and let the smoke out?"
1050
00:48:05.908 --> 00:48:06.974
No.
1051
00:48:06.976 --> 00:48:11.837
100% satisfied with a guy
who answers the door,
1052
00:48:11.872 --> 00:48:13.672
Closes it behind him,
1053
00:48:13.749 --> 00:48:16.842
Leans against it
as if you're not going inside.
1054
00:48:16.877 --> 00:48:18.561
"I burnt a roast."
1055
00:48:18.638 --> 00:48:22.681
"okay, our work is done here.
Thank you."
1056
00:48:22.716 --> 00:48:24.475
Give me a break.
1057
00:48:24.551 --> 00:48:26.894
He got away with it
for a few more weeks.
1058
00:48:26.905 --> 00:48:29.572
♪ ♪
1059
00:48:29.649 --> 00:48:33.317
- I think that church
gave him cover,
1060
00:48:33.394 --> 00:48:35.361
And that cover worked
to his advantage
1061
00:48:35.437 --> 00:48:38.489
In some of the early reports
'cause police would say,
1062
00:48:38.565 --> 00:48:40.866
"well, we're getting these
reports about this guy,
1063
00:48:40.943 --> 00:48:44.411
"but what we're hearing
is incompatible
1064
00:48:44.422 --> 00:48:48.707
With somebody who's religious,
somebody who's a minister."
1065
00:48:48.742 --> 00:48:52.878
- He would actually have
church services
1066
00:48:52.913 --> 00:48:55.756
On the first floor of his house
1067
00:48:55.767 --> 00:48:59.343
While girls were in
his basement chained together.
1068
00:48:59.420 --> 00:49:02.346
[tense music]
1069
00:49:02.423 --> 00:49:04.848
- Next thing I know,
he came in the basement
1070
00:49:04.925 --> 00:49:08.519
With some rice and dog food.
1071
00:49:08.595 --> 00:49:10.729
That big piece of meat
on there,
1072
00:49:10.764 --> 00:49:13.607
I didn't know what it was.
1073
00:49:13.618 --> 00:49:16.610
And then I realized
that the whole time
1074
00:49:16.621 --> 00:49:19.455
He was upstairs
burning sandy...
1075
00:49:19.532 --> 00:49:22.908
Cooking her
so he can dismember her body.
1076
00:49:22.985 --> 00:49:25.628
It wasn't for her,
I wouldn't be here,
1077
00:49:25.705 --> 00:49:27.705
'cause I ate her.
1078
00:49:27.781 --> 00:49:32.593
♪ ♪
1079
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.551
[dramatic music]
1080
00:49:40.627 --> 00:49:41.885
- In that basement,
1081
00:49:41.962 --> 00:49:43.887
It's a good side
and a bad side.
1082
00:49:43.964 --> 00:49:45.889
I got put on the bad side
1083
00:49:45.966 --> 00:49:49.226
Because I talked
to debbie dudley.
1084
00:49:49.303 --> 00:49:51.562
Every time gary heidnik
came down them steps,
1085
00:49:51.638 --> 00:49:52.771
Josefina would say,
1086
00:49:52.848 --> 00:49:54.490
"jackie and debbie
was doing this,
1087
00:49:54.567 --> 00:49:56.233
Jackie and debbie
was doing that,"
1088
00:49:56.310 --> 00:49:57.660
To the point he believed her.
1089
00:49:57.737 --> 00:50:01.238
He would beat us, beat us.
1090
00:50:01.315 --> 00:50:04.000
She had to tell this man
all this stuff
1091
00:50:04.076 --> 00:50:05.951
For him to come at us,
1092
00:50:05.986 --> 00:50:08.662
So I used to just
look at her, like,
1093
00:50:08.673 --> 00:50:11.248
"why would she do this to us?"
1094
00:50:11.325 --> 00:50:12.842
♪ ♪
1095
00:50:12.918 --> 00:50:15.502
We was planning a way
to get out.
1096
00:50:15.513 --> 00:50:19.506
So we came up with this plan
that because heidnik did trust
1097
00:50:19.517 --> 00:50:21.925
Josefina rivera
more than anybody,
1098
00:50:22.002 --> 00:50:24.261
He would let her go upstairs.
1099
00:50:24.338 --> 00:50:25.929
And she could take baths.
1100
00:50:26.006 --> 00:50:27.931
She walked around in the house.
1101
00:50:28.008 --> 00:50:31.027
Debbie said,
"well, when you go upstairs,
1102
00:50:31.103 --> 00:50:34.480
"you can get a knife,
so when you come downstairs,
1103
00:50:34.556 --> 00:50:37.316
"I'ma be, like,
on my four legs,
1104
00:50:37.351 --> 00:50:39.485
"and we gonna push him over me,
1105
00:50:39.561 --> 00:50:41.820
And we just all gonna
just start fighting him."
1106
00:50:41.855 --> 00:50:45.041
And whatever we had to do
we gonna do
1107
00:50:45.117 --> 00:50:46.876
To get out of there.
1108
00:50:46.952 --> 00:50:48.619
- The girls came up
with a plan
1109
00:50:48.695 --> 00:50:49.953
To get out of the basement.
1110
00:50:50.030 --> 00:50:51.830
What sense does that even make?
1111
00:50:51.865 --> 00:50:54.625
First of all, he doesn't bring
the keys downstairs with him.
1112
00:50:54.701 --> 00:50:57.503
Second of all, the basement
sits on the ground.
1113
00:50:57.538 --> 00:50:59.838
If he's dead, we still can't
get out of here.
1114
00:50:59.915 --> 00:51:01.557
Now we're stuck
with a dead body
1115
00:51:01.634 --> 00:51:03.967
In the midst of everything.
1116
00:51:04.044 --> 00:51:07.721
I mean, the girls came up
with a ridiculous plan.
1117
00:51:07.732 --> 00:51:10.015
You know, I didn't really
let on to anybody
1118
00:51:10.050 --> 00:51:12.735
What my plan was
or what I was doing.
1119
00:51:12.812 --> 00:51:15.979
A lot of times the girls were
trying to cutthroat each other.
1120
00:51:16.056 --> 00:51:17.981
So I knew
I couldn't sit down and say,
1121
00:51:18.058 --> 00:51:19.909
"well, look, we're gonna do
this, or we're gonna do that,
1122
00:51:19.985 --> 00:51:20.910
Or we're gonna do the other,"
1123
00:51:20.986 --> 00:51:24.413
Because then whoever
wants to be in his favor
1124
00:51:24.490 --> 00:51:26.990
Is gonna be telling,
and that's gonna put me back
1125
00:51:27.067 --> 00:51:29.743
To have to start over again,
you know?
1126
00:51:29.754 --> 00:51:34.665
♪ ♪
1127
00:51:34.741 --> 00:51:37.593
And I remember him asking me
about this plan.
1128
00:51:37.670 --> 00:51:40.337
And I said, "yeah, there was
a discussion about that,
1129
00:51:40.414 --> 00:51:42.923
"and I kind of squashed it
because, you know,
1130
00:51:42.934 --> 00:51:44.550
"you didn't bring
the keys downstairs
1131
00:51:44.585 --> 00:51:45.935
To the basement,"
you know what I mean?
1132
00:51:46.011 --> 00:51:48.771
- So, you know,
gary heidnik came downstairs.
1133
00:51:48.848 --> 00:51:51.014
Me and debbie
looked at each other,
1134
00:51:51.091 --> 00:51:53.776
And we knew by the way
he came down them steps,
1135
00:51:53.853 --> 00:51:55.945
He knew what was going on.
1136
00:51:56.021 --> 00:51:58.564
So he sat down in front of us
1137
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:02.526
And asked us to tell him
about our plan.
1138
00:52:02.603 --> 00:52:04.027
- And he was saying to them,
1139
00:52:04.104 --> 00:52:06.029
"okay, I hear there's
some plans going on
1140
00:52:06.106 --> 00:52:07.573
"with somebody
trying to jump me.
1141
00:52:07.608 --> 00:52:08.958
"but if you knock me out
1142
00:52:09.034 --> 00:52:10.626
"or something happens to me
down here,
1143
00:52:10.703 --> 00:52:12.744
There's no way out
of this basement,"
1144
00:52:12.779 --> 00:52:15.789
Basically, which it wasn't.
1145
00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:19.793
He came downstairs, and he
unchained deborah's chain,
1146
00:52:19.804 --> 00:52:21.753
And he took her upstairs.
1147
00:52:21.788 --> 00:52:23.973
She was up there maybe
five, eight minutes.
1148
00:52:24.049 --> 00:52:25.549
And then she came back down,
1149
00:52:25.626 --> 00:52:26.809
And then
we were all asking her,
1150
00:52:26.886 --> 00:52:29.145
"what's wrong? What's wrong?
What happened? What happened?"
1151
00:52:29.221 --> 00:52:32.806
And she was like,
"oh, he showed me sandra's ribs
1152
00:52:32.817 --> 00:52:34.808
"cooking in a roasting pan
in the oven.
1153
00:52:34.819 --> 00:52:37.987
"he showed me
her body parts in the freezer.
1154
00:52:38.063 --> 00:52:41.490
"and her head was in a pot
on the stove."
1155
00:52:41.567 --> 00:52:44.067
And he was telling her, "well,
if you don't straighten up,
1156
00:52:44.144 --> 00:52:46.570
This is gonna be you, too."
1157
00:52:46.647 --> 00:52:49.990
- Josefina rivera told him
what we was gonna do.
1158
00:52:50.001 --> 00:52:51.950
If we all there together,
1159
00:52:51.985 --> 00:52:55.004
We got to work together
to get out of a situation.
1160
00:52:55.080 --> 00:52:57.173
And now you just messed up
the whole thing.
1161
00:52:57.249 --> 00:52:58.665
And that's how I felt.
1162
00:52:58.676 --> 00:53:05.389
♪ ♪
1163
00:53:07.834 --> 00:53:09.927
- He just said
he was gonna come up
1164
00:53:10.003 --> 00:53:12.095
With a better punishment plan
because, you know,
1165
00:53:12.172 --> 00:53:14.690
The basement is just
out of order, basically--
1166
00:53:14.767 --> 00:53:17.601
Something that he say
he learned in the service.
1167
00:53:17.678 --> 00:53:19.811
- He was gonna torture us
every day
1168
00:53:19.846 --> 00:53:22.531
Until we learned
to stop screaming.
1169
00:53:22.608 --> 00:53:25.701
But rivera was lying on us.
1170
00:53:25.778 --> 00:53:26.960
We not saying nothing,
1171
00:53:26.962 --> 00:53:31.874
But you couldn't him because
rivera was the holy bible.
1172
00:53:31.951 --> 00:53:33.992
And we was the devil.
1173
00:53:34.069 --> 00:53:35.953
He had us chained up.
1174
00:53:36.029 --> 00:53:39.215
He filled the hole up
with water...
1175
00:53:39.291 --> 00:53:42.793
And he took wire that he used
to have in the basement,
1176
00:53:42.869 --> 00:53:44.461
And he had stripped it
1177
00:53:44.538 --> 00:53:47.890
And put the wires on the chains
1178
00:53:47.967 --> 00:53:50.559
So we would electrocute
in the water.
1179
00:53:50.636 --> 00:53:53.679
- His thing was, it would
give them an electric jolt,
1180
00:53:53.755 --> 00:53:55.889
Which would make them behave,
1181
00:53:55.900 --> 00:53:57.733
Like some type
of shock therapy.
1182
00:53:57.810 --> 00:54:01.019
And he was like, "okay,"
and then he had me do it.
1183
00:54:01.096 --> 00:54:03.647
♪ ♪
1184
00:54:03.724 --> 00:54:05.574
Now he's making me do it, too.
1185
00:54:05.651 --> 00:54:08.911
He stops, and he goes upstairs.
1186
00:54:08.988 --> 00:54:11.530
♪ ♪
1187
00:54:11.565 --> 00:54:14.083
- And then you felt
the electricity, and I looked,
1188
00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:17.494
And I remember her doing it.
1189
00:54:17.571 --> 00:54:20.038
It was like they was together.
1190
00:54:20.073 --> 00:54:21.590
At some point in time,
1191
00:54:21.667 --> 00:54:24.668
I just thought
they was together.
1192
00:54:24.745 --> 00:54:29.214
- Josefina is trying to gain
gary heidnik's confidence.
1193
00:54:29.249 --> 00:54:31.550
So, yes, she did inflict
1194
00:54:31.585 --> 00:54:33.760
The electrocution
and the electric shocks.
1195
00:54:33.771 --> 00:54:36.680
♪ ♪
1196
00:54:36.757 --> 00:54:38.515
- All I know--
debbie just fell in the water,
1197
00:54:38.592 --> 00:54:39.942
And I lift her up,
and I'm like,
1198
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:41.685
"something wrong with debbie,"
1199
00:54:41.762 --> 00:54:43.687
So I'm trying
to lift the board up.
1200
00:54:43.764 --> 00:54:45.522
- And I was hollering
for him--
1201
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:48.191
"gary," I said, "jackie is
saying deborah's dead."
1202
00:54:48.268 --> 00:54:50.861
And he comes back downstairs.
1203
00:54:50.937 --> 00:54:53.289
- Heidnik come over there
and slammed it back down
1204
00:54:53.365 --> 00:54:55.073
So I fall back in the water.
1205
00:54:55.108 --> 00:54:56.292
- And he looks.
1206
00:54:56.368 --> 00:54:58.035
Deborah's in the middle,
1207
00:54:58.111 --> 00:55:01.705
And her head--
she's folded over like this.
1208
00:55:01.782 --> 00:55:04.750
♪ ♪
1209
00:55:04.826 --> 00:55:07.919
- Debbie dudley
was on this side of me.
1210
00:55:07.954 --> 00:55:10.973
By now, I knew she was dead.
1211
00:55:11.050 --> 00:55:13.559
Rivera--she killed debbie.
1212
00:55:15.220 --> 00:55:18.764
We all could've got
out of there alive.
1213
00:55:18.799 --> 00:55:22.601
A lot of stuff that she did
she didn't have to do.
1214
00:55:22.636 --> 00:55:27.773
I just thought she took on
her serial killer ideal, too.
1215
00:55:27.808 --> 00:55:30.233
Like, she was the oldest.
1216
00:55:30.310 --> 00:55:32.569
She was supposed to protect us.
1217
00:55:32.646 --> 00:55:35.614
Even though she was
in a bad situation,
1218
00:55:35.690 --> 00:55:37.657
She was still
supposed to protect us.
1219
00:55:37.668 --> 00:55:40.336
- He says, "good, now my
basement can get back to order
1220
00:55:40.412 --> 00:55:42.287
'cause now I got rid
of the troublemaker."
1221
00:55:42.322 --> 00:55:44.340
And we're, like,
just standing there devastated
1222
00:55:44.416 --> 00:55:46.750
Because this girl's body
is now laying
1223
00:55:46.827 --> 00:55:51.254
In the exact spot where
sandra lindsay's body was.
1224
00:55:51.331 --> 00:55:55.675
- Then he give us
a cigarette and a beer
1225
00:55:55.686 --> 00:55:57.603
And a can of dog food.
1226
00:55:59.264 --> 00:56:02.641
Heidnik go into where
the deep freezer was
1227
00:56:02.676 --> 00:56:04.643
And put debbie body in there.
1228
00:56:04.678 --> 00:56:07.938
And I remember
he have rivera over there,
1229
00:56:08.014 --> 00:56:10.866
And she signed
the piece of paper.
1230
00:56:10.943 --> 00:56:12.317
- And he wants me to write,
1231
00:56:12.352 --> 00:56:15.654
"gary heidnik
and josefina rivera
1232
00:56:15.730 --> 00:56:18.865
"electrocuted deborah dudley
by making her sit
1233
00:56:18.876 --> 00:56:21.710
In a pool of water while
we electrocuted her chains."
1234
00:56:21.787 --> 00:56:24.880
And he made me sign it,
and he signed it.
1235
00:56:24.957 --> 00:56:26.289
And he took
that letter upstairs,
1236
00:56:26.366 --> 00:56:29.292
And then he came back down
and took the chains off,
1237
00:56:29.369 --> 00:56:32.629
The shackles off
and told me to go upstairs.
1238
00:56:32.706 --> 00:56:36.133
- That's where gary heidnik
trusted her...
1239
00:56:36.209 --> 00:56:38.009
That she wouldn't snitch
1240
00:56:38.086 --> 00:56:39.970
Because they both
will go to jail
1241
00:56:40.046 --> 00:56:42.013
Because they both
killed someone.
1242
00:56:42.048 --> 00:56:43.348
'cause she killed debbie,
1243
00:56:43.383 --> 00:56:47.018
She got to walk around
the house freely.
1244
00:56:47.053 --> 00:56:48.737
- I was free,
but I wasn't free
1245
00:56:48.814 --> 00:56:51.648
Because these other girls
were still in the basement.
1246
00:56:51.725 --> 00:56:53.233
Even if I get away,
1247
00:56:53.244 --> 00:56:55.026
The first thing he's gonna do
is get rid of them
1248
00:56:55.103 --> 00:56:58.655
'cause that's
all the evidence.
1249
00:56:58.732 --> 00:57:00.323
So, at that point,
1250
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:03.660
Now he thinks me and him
are on the same side.
1251
00:57:03.737 --> 00:57:05.996
We're both boyfriend
and girlfriend or whatever.
1252
00:57:06.072 --> 00:57:08.039
Now he has somebody
that's on his side
1253
00:57:08.116 --> 00:57:09.833
That's with him in his play.
1254
00:57:09.910 --> 00:57:13.095
- And then, like,
maybe three days later,
1255
00:57:13.172 --> 00:57:16.882
He had to get rid
of debbie's body.
1256
00:57:16.917 --> 00:57:18.100
- He calls me downstairs
1257
00:57:18.177 --> 00:57:20.886
And wants me to look
at deborah dudley's body--
1258
00:57:20.921 --> 00:57:24.273
I guess as a reminder
this really could be me.
1259
00:57:24.349 --> 00:57:26.275
And he makes me
look at her body,
1260
00:57:26.351 --> 00:57:27.726
And I'm like, "okay."
1261
00:57:27.802 --> 00:57:29.853
Then he takes her upstairs.
1262
00:57:29.930 --> 00:57:32.022
He puts her in the trunk
of the car.
1263
00:57:32.098 --> 00:57:34.107
[engine turning over]
1264
00:57:34.118 --> 00:57:37.786
Now he's like,
"we're gonna take a ride."
1265
00:57:37.863 --> 00:57:39.070
So now we're driving.
1266
00:57:39.105 --> 00:57:40.906
We go through the toll,
1267
00:57:40.982 --> 00:57:43.125
And we're driving down
this highway.
1268
00:57:43.202 --> 00:57:45.911
And he turns off
on this off-road,
1269
00:57:45.946 --> 00:57:48.038
And it's total woods,
1270
00:57:48.114 --> 00:57:51.800
And it's so freaking quiet.
1271
00:57:51.877 --> 00:57:53.969
I'm like,
"what is this plan all about?
1272
00:57:54.046 --> 00:57:56.296
Is he gonna
leave me out here, too?"
1273
00:57:56.307 --> 00:57:58.757
And so he gets out of the car,
1274
00:57:58.833 --> 00:58:01.143
Opens the trunk.
1275
00:58:01.220 --> 00:58:03.386
And I can hear her body,
frozen body...
1276
00:58:03.463 --> 00:58:06.982
[imitates thud]
hit the trunk.
1277
00:58:07.059 --> 00:58:09.226
I can hear him walking
on the leaves.
1278
00:58:09.302 --> 00:58:11.228
[crunching]
1279
00:58:11.304 --> 00:58:17.326
♪ ♪
1280
00:58:17.402 --> 00:58:21.238
And then it was so quiet
for so long.
1281
00:58:21.314 --> 00:58:25.000
- Josefina wasn't going
to be a victim.
1282
00:58:25.077 --> 00:58:28.453
- She going around
getting girls for him.
1283
00:58:28.488 --> 00:58:32.791
- Just didn't have the time
to make her understand.
1284
00:58:32.867 --> 00:58:35.010
- Well, would you like me to
put you in a ----ing basement?
1285
00:58:35.087 --> 00:58:37.846
And then you tell me
if you got a damn choice.
1286
00:58:37.923 --> 00:58:42.267
♪ ♪
1287
00:58:47.598 --> 00:58:49.307
- I remember
after gary heidnik
1288
00:58:49.342 --> 00:58:50.809
Dumped deborah's body,
1289
00:58:50.844 --> 00:58:52.435
We came back to philadelphia,
1290
00:58:52.512 --> 00:58:54.813
And we went
into the mcdonald's.
1291
00:58:54.889 --> 00:58:56.189
He's in this crowded place,
1292
00:58:56.200 --> 00:58:58.275
And he's just reading
the paper, like...
1293
00:58:58.351 --> 00:58:59.943
You know, eating a sandwich.
1294
00:59:00.020 --> 00:59:01.870
It was amazing to me.
I couldn't even believe it.
1295
00:59:01.947 --> 00:59:06.491
How can you sit there so calmly
like nothing ever happened?
1296
00:59:06.526 --> 00:59:09.494
I just got finished dumping
a dead body with you.
1297
00:59:09.529 --> 00:59:12.497
[dramatic music]
1298
00:59:12.532 --> 00:59:14.624
♪ ♪
1299
00:59:14.701 --> 00:59:17.961
After we left there
and we got back to the house,
1300
00:59:18.038 --> 00:59:19.462
He was saying he wanted me
to go with him
1301
00:59:19.539 --> 00:59:21.056
To pick up another girl.
1302
00:59:21.133 --> 00:59:24.175
I'm thinking about this,
and I said, "here's the deal.
1303
00:59:24.252 --> 00:59:26.011
We can go pick up
another girl."
1304
00:59:26.046 --> 00:59:28.305
I said, "but when we get done,"
1305
00:59:28.381 --> 00:59:30.515
I said, "you're gonna take me
to see my family."
1306
00:59:30.592 --> 00:59:33.351
And he went for it.
1307
00:59:33.428 --> 00:59:37.364
We go down front street,
and we run into agnes adams.
1308
00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:42.411
Now, she was from the same
neighborhood that I was from,
1309
00:59:42.487 --> 00:59:45.530
But I did not know her,
but she knew gary.
1310
00:59:45.565 --> 00:59:49.993
- Agnes adams was a little bit
older than some of the girls.
1311
00:59:50.070 --> 00:59:53.538
- She also was
a innocent-projecting person
1312
00:59:53.573 --> 00:59:57.208
That had turned
to a life on the street.
1313
00:59:57.285 --> 01:00:00.337
- Gary heidnik had a previous
relationship with her,
1314
01:00:00.413 --> 01:00:02.672
In the sense that
he would pay her for sex,
1315
01:00:02.749 --> 01:00:05.175
So it wasn't that difficult
to lure her back there.
1316
01:00:05.251 --> 01:00:07.269
♪ ♪
1317
01:00:07.346 --> 01:00:09.012
- Them two went upstairs
to the bedroom.
1318
01:00:09.089 --> 01:00:10.889
I was sitting there
in the living room on a couch.
1319
01:00:10.965 --> 01:00:13.016
They weren't up there
but, like, three minutes.
1320
01:00:13.093 --> 01:00:15.268
- We overheard
the conversation.
1321
01:00:15.279 --> 01:00:18.447
She going around
getting girls for him.
1322
01:00:18.523 --> 01:00:20.231
Rivera went and got her
1323
01:00:20.266 --> 01:00:23.026
And brought her
in that basement.
1324
01:00:23.103 --> 01:00:25.403
When agnes came downstairs,
1325
01:00:25.438 --> 01:00:28.406
She was yelling and screaming
like everybody else,
1326
01:00:28.441 --> 01:00:30.408
And he put her in that hole.
1327
01:00:30.443 --> 01:00:32.410
- I remember I came down
them couple steps
1328
01:00:32.487 --> 01:00:34.579
And leaned over the bannister,
and they all looked up at me.
1329
01:00:34.614 --> 01:00:36.915
Expression on their faces--
1330
01:00:36.991 --> 01:00:40.585
It was breaking my heart,
because I couldn't say to them,
1331
01:00:40.662 --> 01:00:42.379
Only reason why I didn't run
1332
01:00:42.455 --> 01:00:44.214
Was the fact
that they were still there.
1333
01:00:44.290 --> 01:00:46.308
- He gave her back her wig.
1334
01:00:46.385 --> 01:00:49.552
She had
a brown leather jacket, like--
1335
01:00:49.629 --> 01:00:51.262
I think he bought her
an outfit.
1336
01:00:51.297 --> 01:00:53.056
I'm not sure.
1337
01:00:53.133 --> 01:00:55.433
So I thought they was
in cahoots together.
1338
01:00:55.510 --> 01:00:59.104
After I seen that,
I had no more love for rivera.
1339
01:00:59.139 --> 01:01:01.439
I would've never went
and got one of my girlfriends,
1340
01:01:01.516 --> 01:01:03.608
Then bring her
in the basement with me.
1341
01:01:03.643 --> 01:01:04.943
No.
1342
01:01:05.019 --> 01:01:07.946
- Josefina--
she saw that he killed
1343
01:01:08.022 --> 01:01:10.573
Two people in that basement.
1344
01:01:10.650 --> 01:01:12.617
She wasn't going
to be a victim.
1345
01:01:12.694 --> 01:01:16.746
She did whatever was necessary
for survival mode.
1346
01:01:16.823 --> 01:01:20.458
She convinced gary heidnik
that she was his ally,
1347
01:01:20.493 --> 01:01:22.085
That she would help him.
1348
01:01:22.162 --> 01:01:24.129
♪ ♪
1349
01:01:24.164 --> 01:01:25.755
- She was the one
that was best
1350
01:01:25.832 --> 01:01:27.632
At giving him
what he really wanted.
1351
01:01:27.667 --> 01:01:29.300
You know,
even if it was an illusion,
1352
01:01:29.377 --> 01:01:32.637
Even if josefina was faking
to save her own life,
1353
01:01:32.672 --> 01:01:35.014
For heidnik, he believed it.
1354
01:01:35.025 --> 01:01:38.643
He knew that she was not
an escape risk
1355
01:01:38.678 --> 01:01:41.187
Like the others would be,
1356
01:01:41.198 --> 01:01:44.023
That he didn't have to worry
about her escaping.
1357
01:01:44.034 --> 01:01:46.651
"this person adores me.
I'm a god, a sex god."
1358
01:01:46.728 --> 01:01:49.371
♪ ♪
1359
01:01:49.448 --> 01:01:52.365
- After we got back
to the house with agnes adams,
1360
01:01:52.376 --> 01:01:54.659
I said, "well, I guess we're
gonna go see our family now,"
1361
01:01:54.694 --> 01:01:57.120
And he said,
"yeah, okay, we can do that."
1362
01:01:57.197 --> 01:02:00.290
I said,
"but I can't take you with me
1363
01:02:00.366 --> 01:02:03.126
"'cause I've been gone
for so long
1364
01:02:03.203 --> 01:02:05.503
That they're gonna have
way too many questions."
1365
01:02:05.538 --> 01:02:07.672
I said, "they might even be,
like, upset with you
1366
01:02:07.707 --> 01:02:09.466
"because I haven't been
in touch with them.
1367
01:02:09.542 --> 01:02:13.303
"you could wait for me at the
gas station at 6th and girard
1368
01:02:13.379 --> 01:02:15.472
"because I only live
down the street.
1369
01:02:15.548 --> 01:02:17.807
"and I'll go down there
and talk to them,
1370
01:02:17.884 --> 01:02:20.393
And then I'll bring you
down there and introduce you."
1371
01:02:20.404 --> 01:02:23.071
♪ ♪
1372
01:02:23.148 --> 01:02:25.648
Get into the gas station,
and I'm, like,
1373
01:02:25.725 --> 01:02:28.234
Saying to myself, "okay,
I know there's a phone booth
1374
01:02:28.245 --> 01:02:30.487
At 6th and thompson."
I knew that.
1375
01:02:30.563 --> 01:02:33.364
So I knew I had to get
from 6th and girard
1376
01:02:33.399 --> 01:02:35.366
To 6th and thompson.
1377
01:02:35.401 --> 01:02:37.586
He went with it.
He went for it.
1378
01:02:37.662 --> 01:02:41.664
You know, and I'm walking away
from his car down 6th street.
1379
01:02:41.741 --> 01:02:43.041
I'm saying to myself,
1380
01:02:43.076 --> 01:02:45.043
"oh, my god,
is this gonna work?
1381
01:02:45.078 --> 01:02:47.545
"is he gonna get out the car
and go walk to the corner
1382
01:02:47.622 --> 01:02:49.172
To see where I'm going?"
1383
01:02:49.249 --> 01:02:53.384
And then when I get to
the phone booth and I call...
1384
01:02:53.461 --> 01:02:55.720
The cops--
they don't believe me.
1385
01:02:55.797 --> 01:02:57.680
I keep trying to stress to them
on the phone--
1386
01:02:57.757 --> 01:02:58.957
It's a time limit.
1387
01:02:59.034 --> 01:03:01.726
I said, "I don't want him to
get back there and, you know,
1388
01:03:01.761 --> 01:03:04.354
Hurt these other girls because
he thinks I'm not coming back."
1389
01:03:04.430 --> 01:03:07.357
So, when the paddy wagon
finally gets there
1390
01:03:07.433 --> 01:03:08.733
And they're, like,
looking at me
1391
01:03:08.768 --> 01:03:10.527
Like I just completely
lost my mind.
1392
01:03:10.603 --> 01:03:13.196
♪ ♪
1393
01:03:13.273 --> 01:03:16.366
My whole intent always was
to make sure that I was free
1394
01:03:16.442 --> 01:03:18.201
And these girls
were safe as well.
1395
01:03:18.278 --> 01:03:21.621
And now we are so close
to being free that--
1396
01:03:21.632 --> 01:03:23.540
It's, like, so--
it's, like, right there
1397
01:03:23.616 --> 01:03:26.251
But you can't reach it.
1398
01:03:26.327 --> 01:03:29.462
- We just happened to be
the first one on the scene,
1399
01:03:29.473 --> 01:03:31.589
And...
1400
01:03:31.666 --> 01:03:34.142
It was one bizarre story.
1401
01:03:34.219 --> 01:03:37.762
Josefina approached us,
said she was held captive,
1402
01:03:37.797 --> 01:03:41.316
Chained up, beaten,
raped repeatedly...
1403
01:03:41.393 --> 01:03:43.268
And that there was
other females
1404
01:03:43.303 --> 01:03:44.736
Being held in the house.
1405
01:03:46.306 --> 01:03:48.106
I was a little skeptical.
1406
01:03:48.182 --> 01:03:50.233
I asked her,
"are you a hooker?"
1407
01:03:50.310 --> 01:03:51.176
She said, "yes."
1408
01:03:51.252 --> 01:03:52.777
I said,
"well, what's this all about?
1409
01:03:52.812 --> 01:03:54.904
You didn't get paid
or something?"
1410
01:03:54.981 --> 01:03:57.657
And she said, "no,
you really have to help me."
1411
01:03:57.668 --> 01:03:59.576
She was visibly shaken.
1412
01:03:59.652 --> 01:04:01.452
And she said,
"he's gonna go back,
1413
01:04:01.529 --> 01:04:04.622
And he's gonna
kill them girls."
1414
01:04:04.699 --> 01:04:07.458
- It was really
a hectic 15 minutes.
1415
01:04:07.493 --> 01:04:09.419
I'm telling them
the same exact story again,
1416
01:04:09.495 --> 01:04:11.129
And I'm telling them
about the shackles.
1417
01:04:11.164 --> 01:04:13.464
And then the officer that was
on the passenger side said,
1418
01:04:13.499 --> 01:04:16.134
"lift up your pants' leg,"
and I lift up my pants' leg,
1419
01:04:16.210 --> 01:04:18.261
And you can see the marks
from the muffler clamps.
1420
01:04:18.338 --> 01:04:22.807
- There was obvious bruising
where she was chained up.
1421
01:04:22.842 --> 01:04:25.643
With that,
I knew that this is for real.
1422
01:04:25.720 --> 01:04:27.687
We're gonna go down
and check it out.
1423
01:04:27.698 --> 01:04:30.148
If he's there,
I'll call you down,
1424
01:04:30.224 --> 01:04:32.275
And you can identify him.
1425
01:04:32.352 --> 01:04:33.651
- They said,
"you stay right here.
1426
01:04:33.728 --> 01:04:35.612
We're gonna send
another officer."
1427
01:04:35.688 --> 01:04:37.530
[sirens wailing]
1428
01:04:37.541 --> 01:04:39.490
- We pulled up
directly behind him
1429
01:04:39.525 --> 01:04:42.285
So that he couldn't pull out,
he couldn't get away.
1430
01:04:42.362 --> 01:04:43.620
We placed him under arrest.
1431
01:04:43.696 --> 01:04:45.663
♪ ♪
1432
01:04:45.698 --> 01:04:47.165
- I go up to the paddy wagon.
1433
01:04:47.200 --> 01:04:49.167
They opened the doors,
and it's him.
1434
01:04:49.202 --> 01:04:51.336
And he just had this look
on his face like,
1435
01:04:51.371 --> 01:04:52.962
"I really should've got rid
of this bitch
1436
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:55.173
When I had a chance."
1437
01:04:55.208 --> 01:04:56.507
He was not a happy camper.
1438
01:04:56.584 --> 01:04:58.843
♪ ♪
1439
01:04:58.878 --> 01:05:01.471
- After taking gary
into custody,
1440
01:05:01.547 --> 01:05:05.391
We transported josefina rivera
to special victims
1441
01:05:05.402 --> 01:05:07.477
For further investigation.
1442
01:05:07.553 --> 01:05:09.520
- The 26th district officers
1443
01:05:09.597 --> 01:05:12.315
Had gone
to east detective division
1444
01:05:12.392 --> 01:05:13.691
And the homicide division,
1445
01:05:13.726 --> 01:05:16.653
And they did not choose
to investigate it.
1446
01:05:16.729 --> 01:05:20.365
But the 26th district officers
were persistent,
1447
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:22.867
And we were sort of
the last people to come to.
1448
01:05:22.902 --> 01:05:24.827
My sergeant actually came
to me,
1449
01:05:24.904 --> 01:05:29.207
And he told me with, you know,
some question in his voice,
1450
01:05:29.242 --> 01:05:30.875
"this is a job that's come in.
1451
01:05:30.910 --> 01:05:33.336
I want you
to interview this woman."
1452
01:05:33.413 --> 01:05:37.599
As bizarre as a story
as it was, she was credible,
1453
01:05:37.676 --> 01:05:40.218
And I believed her.
1454
01:05:40.294 --> 01:05:42.345
♪ ♪
1455
01:05:42.422 --> 01:05:46.608
What really set in for me
was that she kept asking,
1456
01:05:46.685 --> 01:05:49.018
"is someone gonna go back
for the other women?"
1457
01:05:49.095 --> 01:05:51.613
♪ ♪
1458
01:05:51.690 --> 01:05:54.232
- Finally, I got
their attention enough
1459
01:05:54.267 --> 01:05:57.235
For them to go
and see what was going on.
1460
01:05:57.270 --> 01:06:03.583
♪ ♪
1461
01:06:13.619 --> 01:06:15.804
- The door was forced open,
1462
01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:19.882
And once inside, I noticed
everything that made sound
1463
01:06:19.959 --> 01:06:21.884
Was turned full volume.
1464
01:06:21.961 --> 01:06:25.722
Tvs were blasting.
Radios were blasting.
1465
01:06:25.798 --> 01:06:28.599
The heat was turned up
to about 90 degrees.
1466
01:06:28.634 --> 01:06:30.777
[door creaks]
1467
01:06:34.399 --> 01:06:35.565
- I wake lisa up.
1468
01:06:35.641 --> 01:06:37.442
Like, "lisa, somebody upstairs.
1469
01:06:37.477 --> 01:06:38.484
You hear it?"
1470
01:06:38.495 --> 01:06:40.903
♪ ♪
1471
01:06:40.980 --> 01:06:43.448
The cops coming down the steps,
I swear to god,
1472
01:06:43.524 --> 01:06:46.784
It was this black, black cop
with pink lips.
1473
01:06:46.861 --> 01:06:49.454
I leaped over to him,
like, to say,
1474
01:06:49.530 --> 01:06:52.790
"you the most 'beautifulest'
thing in the world."
1475
01:06:52.825 --> 01:06:54.417
- I came down the steps.
1476
01:06:54.494 --> 01:06:58.346
I see these three women
chained and shackled.
1477
01:06:58.423 --> 01:07:01.850
♪ ♪
1478
01:07:01.926 --> 01:07:03.801
- They were beat
from the waist down.
1479
01:07:03.878 --> 01:07:07.638
They all had visible bruising,
weeping wounds.
1480
01:07:07.673 --> 01:07:09.515
They were scared to death.
1481
01:07:09.526 --> 01:07:10.975
- They were naked,
1482
01:07:11.010 --> 01:07:12.643
Just exposed.
1483
01:07:12.720 --> 01:07:13.978
It was just...
1484
01:07:14.013 --> 01:07:16.698
I asked the officers
to go get blankets
1485
01:07:16.775 --> 01:07:18.366
So they could be covered.
1486
01:07:18.443 --> 01:07:20.535
♪ ♪
1487
01:07:20.612 --> 01:07:24.447
The sight of those three women
was horrible to me.
1488
01:07:24.524 --> 01:07:26.657
It makes me angry still, still.
1489
01:07:26.692 --> 01:07:28.826
[scoffs]
believe it or not, but, yeah.
1490
01:07:28.861 --> 01:07:35.300
♪ ♪
1491
01:07:39.204 --> 01:07:40.463
[sirens wailing]
1492
01:07:40.540 --> 01:07:42.465
- Heidnik's house of horrors
1493
01:07:42.542 --> 01:07:45.009
Where he kept six women
in chains in his basement.
1494
01:07:45.044 --> 01:07:46.719
- Captive women
had been imprisoned
1495
01:07:46.730 --> 01:07:48.012
As long as four months
1496
01:07:48.047 --> 01:07:51.182
And fed dog food, bread,
and water.
1497
01:07:51.259 --> 01:07:53.643
- Police say that they were led
to heidnik's house by a woman
1498
01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:56.562
Who told them that she had
escaped from the basement.
1499
01:07:56.573 --> 01:08:00.525
[dramatic music]
1500
01:08:00.560 --> 01:08:01.734
- All hell let loose,
1501
01:08:01.745 --> 01:08:03.820
And the police knocked in
gary's door.
1502
01:08:03.896 --> 01:08:07.031
Everybody woke up to watch
what was going on.
1503
01:08:07.066 --> 01:08:10.493
I was floored.
I couldn't believe it.
1504
01:08:10.570 --> 01:08:13.496
And then all the noises,
all the sounds
1505
01:08:13.573 --> 01:08:14.923
All came together
1506
01:08:14.999 --> 01:08:17.500
When you found out
what actually happened.
1507
01:08:17.577 --> 01:08:20.545
♪ ♪
1508
01:08:20.580 --> 01:08:22.547
It was around 7:00
in the morning
1509
01:08:22.582 --> 01:08:24.933
When they finally brought
the girls out of the house.
1510
01:08:25.009 --> 01:08:27.593
- And, like, the whole street
1511
01:08:27.604 --> 01:08:29.178
Was cheering for us,
1512
01:08:29.255 --> 01:08:30.888
So it kind of made me
feel like,
1513
01:08:30.965 --> 01:08:33.599
"how are y'all cheering for us,
1514
01:08:33.610 --> 01:08:35.935
"and y'all didn't even know
we was in the basement,
1515
01:08:35.946 --> 01:08:38.613
"and this man was doing
what he was doing to us?
1516
01:08:38.690 --> 01:08:40.690
"how y'all not hear it?
1517
01:08:40.766 --> 01:08:42.617
Y'all live
right next door to him."
1518
01:08:42.694 --> 01:08:49.374
♪ ♪
1519
01:08:52.629 --> 01:08:54.912
- The women were transported
to episcopal hospital,
1520
01:08:54.947 --> 01:08:58.583
Where they were evaluated
and treated.
1521
01:08:58.659 --> 01:09:01.919
- When I got to the hospital,
I was only 46 pounds.
1522
01:09:01.996 --> 01:09:04.630
♪ ♪
1523
01:09:04.641 --> 01:09:06.257
I had to put the weight
back on me.
1524
01:09:06.334 --> 01:09:08.092
I had to get my muscles back.
1525
01:09:08.127 --> 01:09:10.094
I had to learn
how to walk again.
1526
01:09:10.129 --> 01:09:13.723
Like, I had so much work to do
with these doctors,
1527
01:09:13.799 --> 01:09:15.600
And they had to help me,
1528
01:09:15.676 --> 01:09:18.436
'cause I was like a little bone
1529
01:09:18.512 --> 01:09:21.772
Walking around with skin
slapped on them.
1530
01:09:21.807 --> 01:09:23.816
- I conducted the interviews
of the women
1531
01:09:23.827 --> 01:09:25.818
At episcopal hospital,
1532
01:09:25.829 --> 01:09:28.613
And we went back
and processed the scene.
1533
01:09:28.648 --> 01:09:30.281
♪ ♪
1534
01:09:30.316 --> 01:09:34.660
In the kitchen, we found...
1535
01:09:34.671 --> 01:09:37.580
Body parts in the freezer.
1536
01:09:37.657 --> 01:09:41.918
- It was about a 20-quart
aluminum pot on the stove.
1537
01:09:41.994 --> 01:09:43.845
It had crusting around it.
1538
01:09:43.922 --> 01:09:46.130
And inside the oven,
1539
01:09:46.165 --> 01:09:50.760
There was what looked like
a rib and a braid of hair.
1540
01:09:50.836 --> 01:09:52.595
Really shook me up
a little bit,
1541
01:09:52.672 --> 01:09:54.138
And I became nauseous.
1542
01:09:54.173 --> 01:09:56.807
The whole story came together.
1543
01:09:56.842 --> 01:10:00.144
This guy was cooking
a human body
1544
01:10:00.179 --> 01:10:01.979
In that kitchen.
1545
01:10:02.014 --> 01:10:03.940
Thank god we followed up
on this.
1546
01:10:04.016 --> 01:10:05.775
If we didn't, you know,
1547
01:10:05.851 --> 01:10:08.152
Who knows what would've
happened to these women?
1548
01:10:08.229 --> 01:10:12.615
You know, they--they most
likely would've been dead.
1549
01:10:12.692 --> 01:10:15.034
- You think you'd see
in a video movie,
1550
01:10:15.045 --> 01:10:16.211
And you hardly
would ever expect
1551
01:10:16.287 --> 01:10:20.715
This to happen in real life,
but, unfortunately, it has.
1552
01:10:20.792 --> 01:10:24.886
♪ ♪
1553
01:10:24.963 --> 01:10:26.837
- Gary's lawyer, chuck peruto,
1554
01:10:26.872 --> 01:10:29.173
Came by gary's house
a couple times,
1555
01:10:29.208 --> 01:10:31.008
Checking out stuff
for his case.
1556
01:10:31.085 --> 01:10:34.971
And I asked him, "mr. Peruto,
what did you do to gary?
1557
01:10:35.047 --> 01:10:39.809
You made him look like manson.
He looks crazy."
1558
01:10:39.885 --> 01:10:42.853
And he goes,
"that's my whole thing."
1559
01:10:42.930 --> 01:10:44.897
- Peruto knew
he wasn't gonna overwhelm
1560
01:10:44.908 --> 01:10:46.574
The facts of this case.
1561
01:10:46.651 --> 01:10:49.568
He'd have to do it
through the insanity defense.
1562
01:10:49.579 --> 01:10:52.863
- The definition
basically says,
1563
01:10:52.898 --> 01:10:55.866
"you don't know right
from wrong."
1564
01:10:55.943 --> 01:10:58.160
So I knew it was
a very uphill battle,
1565
01:10:58.237 --> 01:11:00.088
But the answers
I was getting from him
1566
01:11:00.164 --> 01:11:02.039
Are the answers that I need.
1567
01:11:02.116 --> 01:11:05.042
♪ ♪
1568
01:11:05.077 --> 01:11:07.920
"were you ever hospitalized
before for mental illness?"
1569
01:11:07.931 --> 01:11:09.338
"yes."
1570
01:11:09.415 --> 01:11:13.217
He was given full
social security benefits
1571
01:11:13.294 --> 01:11:14.769
For mental illness,
1572
01:11:14.846 --> 01:11:17.105
That he was incapable
of working.
1573
01:11:17.181 --> 01:11:20.224
That's how much they thought
he was nuts.
1574
01:11:20.301 --> 01:11:23.936
♪ ♪
1575
01:11:23.947 --> 01:11:26.605
- He also trained
as a psychiatric nurse,
1576
01:11:26.616 --> 01:11:31.235
So he knew all the symptoms
to show mental illness.
1577
01:11:31.270 --> 01:11:36.198
And he used that to continue
receiving his disability.
1578
01:11:36.275 --> 01:11:37.908
- And I was trying to find
something that worked
1579
01:11:37.943 --> 01:11:40.244
That would make them
shut up to stop hollering--
1580
01:11:40.279 --> 01:11:41.746
- Aggressive kind of
1581
01:11:41.781 --> 01:11:43.247
Infliction of pain
on these women.
1582
01:11:43.282 --> 01:11:44.799
- I was trying
to find something
1583
01:11:44.876 --> 01:11:45.891
That would make them behave.
1584
01:11:45.893 --> 01:11:48.419
- But it was painful to them.
- I hope so.
1585
01:11:48.496 --> 01:11:50.254
I don't mean I hope so,
but, I mean, yeah,
1586
01:11:50.331 --> 01:11:51.881
That's what I was trying
to achieve,
1587
01:11:51.957 --> 01:11:54.142
You know, to make them behave.
1588
01:11:54.218 --> 01:11:56.761
♪ ♪
1589
01:11:56.796 --> 01:11:58.971
- The best case
I could hope for
1590
01:11:58.982 --> 01:12:00.931
Was not guilty
by reason of insanity.
1591
01:12:00.966 --> 01:12:03.225
That's almost unattainable.
1592
01:12:03.302 --> 01:12:05.936
I wanted to beat
the death penalty, personally.
1593
01:12:05.971 --> 01:12:08.990
So I was hoping
for third-degree murder.
1594
01:12:09.067 --> 01:12:11.108
♪ ♪
1595
01:12:11.185 --> 01:12:12.943
- In the state
of pennsylvania,
1596
01:12:12.978 --> 01:12:14.779
You can only get
the death penalty
1597
01:12:14.814 --> 01:12:16.781
If it's first-degree murder
and you prove it.
1598
01:12:16.816 --> 01:12:19.116
♪ ♪
1599
01:12:19.193 --> 01:12:21.285
- When josefina testified
at the preliminary hearing,
1600
01:12:21.362 --> 01:12:24.288
I saw an opening
to convince the jury
1601
01:12:24.365 --> 01:12:25.998
On second-
and third-degree murder.
1602
01:12:26.009 --> 01:12:29.001
Heidnik trusted her,
1603
01:12:29.012 --> 01:12:31.128
And he trusted her
for a reason.
1604
01:12:31.163 --> 01:12:34.965
She did a good sell job
on making him believe,
1605
01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:37.259
"hey, you've converted me.
I'm with you."
1606
01:12:37.336 --> 01:12:40.304
And I wanted to use that
against her in the trial.
1607
01:12:40.339 --> 01:12:46.977
♪ ♪
1608
01:12:47.012 --> 01:12:50.481
- And the trial
went on for two weeks.
1609
01:12:50.516 --> 01:12:55.319
I was very concerned about the
four surviving young ladies
1610
01:12:55.396 --> 01:12:58.030
Coming in and telling
about these traumatic,
1611
01:12:58.041 --> 01:13:00.032
Horrendous acts
that happened to them.
1612
01:13:00.043 --> 01:13:02.284
♪ ♪
1613
01:13:02.361 --> 01:13:04.787
- I tried to convince the jury
1614
01:13:04.864 --> 01:13:06.705
That she was in on it
with heidnik
1615
01:13:06.716 --> 01:13:08.833
And she was feeding
a sick mind,
1616
01:13:08.868 --> 01:13:09.792
That she was letting him know
1617
01:13:09.869 --> 01:13:13.337
What he was doing was proper,
it was okay,
1618
01:13:13.372 --> 01:13:16.006
So it gave him that
corroboration that he needed.
1619
01:13:16.083 --> 01:13:18.843
♪ ♪
1620
01:13:18.919 --> 01:13:21.137
I befriended
the other three girls
1621
01:13:21.213 --> 01:13:23.305
Out in the hallway
at city hall.
1622
01:13:23.382 --> 01:13:25.724
I got them to agree with me
1623
01:13:25.735 --> 01:13:28.319
That josefina
is as bad as heidnik.
1624
01:13:29.739 --> 01:13:31.981
- It really baffled me,
because I'm like,
1625
01:13:32.057 --> 01:13:34.909
"I risked my life
to save yours.
1626
01:13:34.986 --> 01:13:37.027
And now you're trying
to throw me under the bus?"
1627
01:13:37.062 --> 01:13:39.905
You know what I mean?
1628
01:13:39.916 --> 01:13:43.200
- In the juror interviews
who later spoke,
1629
01:13:43.235 --> 01:13:46.087
They believed that josefina
was more culpable
1630
01:13:46.164 --> 01:13:47.872
Than was presented,
1631
01:13:47.907 --> 01:13:49.540
But she wasn't
the one on trial.
1632
01:13:49.575 --> 01:13:51.750
♪ ♪
1633
01:13:51.761 --> 01:13:55.004
- She wasn't charged
with nothing that happened.
1634
01:13:55.080 --> 01:13:57.214
[camera shutters clicking,
indistinct chatter]
1635
01:13:57.291 --> 01:14:01.260
- I wasn't as concerned about
the proof that he was sane
1636
01:14:01.271 --> 01:14:03.095
Because I thought
it was overwhelming.
1637
01:14:03.106 --> 01:14:05.264
♪ ♪
1638
01:14:05.275 --> 01:14:06.932
- Charlie called
these witnesses.
1639
01:14:06.943 --> 01:14:08.350
They all testified against him.
1640
01:14:08.427 --> 01:14:11.270
They had no reason to believe,
1641
01:14:11.281 --> 01:14:13.397
They had no hint,
they had no suspicion
1642
01:14:13.432 --> 01:14:15.733
That he was crazy.
1643
01:14:15.809 --> 01:14:17.902
Charlie gallagher
presented that evidence
1644
01:14:17.978 --> 01:14:22.239
In a slow, methodical,
and organized fashion.
1645
01:14:22.274 --> 01:14:23.949
"if this guy is so crazy,
1646
01:14:23.960 --> 01:14:27.411
"how was he able to negotiate
the sale price of a cadillac?
1647
01:14:27.446 --> 01:14:31.916
"how was he able to call
his own stock for purchases
1648
01:14:31.992 --> 01:14:38.473
And turn $20,000 into $680,000
almost overnight?"
1649
01:14:39.976 --> 01:14:42.426
- I actually disagree
with jack apsche,
1650
01:14:42.461 --> 01:14:46.430
The psychologist on the defense
team at the time of the trial.
1651
01:14:46.465 --> 01:14:50.151
♪ ♪
1652
01:14:50.228 --> 01:14:53.270
Don't really see gary heidnik
being so psychotic
1653
01:14:53.305 --> 01:14:55.323
That he didn't know right
from wrong.
1654
01:14:55.399 --> 01:14:58.275
♪ ♪
1655
01:14:58.310 --> 01:15:00.236
- I think the jury was out
1656
01:15:00.312 --> 01:15:02.821
For maybe two days
on the verdict phase.
1657
01:15:02.832 --> 01:15:04.281
And then they were only out
1658
01:15:04.358 --> 01:15:06.951
For maybe 45 minutes
to an hour,
1659
01:15:07.027 --> 01:15:10.996
And the jury handed down
a death sentence.
1660
01:15:11.007 --> 01:15:14.124
After he was convicted in 1988,
1661
01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:17.169
He claimed he didn't want
an appeal.
1662
01:15:17.180 --> 01:15:19.847
- He's the last person to be
executed in pennsylvania
1663
01:15:19.924 --> 01:15:21.173
Because he wanted to be.
1664
01:15:21.184 --> 01:15:23.926
♪ ♪
1665
01:15:24.003 --> 01:15:27.137
- I wanted to watch
the execution.
1666
01:15:27.172 --> 01:15:31.308
I was able to get in there
and watched him die.
1667
01:15:31.343 --> 01:15:33.143
It didn't bring no closure.
1668
01:15:33.220 --> 01:15:36.272
♪ ♪
1669
01:15:36.348 --> 01:15:38.032
- I would've preferred
for him to stay in jail
1670
01:15:38.109 --> 01:15:39.984
Because that would've been
more of a suffering.
1671
01:15:40.060 --> 01:15:41.443
But there's never a day
1672
01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:43.988
That I actually feel like
I'm really free from this.
1673
01:15:44.064 --> 01:15:45.864
I don't dwell on it every day,
1674
01:15:45.875 --> 01:15:49.159
But I have way more easier days
than hard days now.
1675
01:15:49.194 --> 01:15:56.166
♪ ♪
1676
01:15:56.201 --> 01:15:58.502
We're gonna meet jackie today,
1677
01:15:58.537 --> 01:16:03.966
Who I haven't seen
in 30-some years.
1678
01:16:04.043 --> 01:16:05.175
I don't know.
1679
01:16:05.252 --> 01:16:07.511
I have mixed emotions,
I guess.
1680
01:16:07.546 --> 01:16:09.638
You know,
I want it to all go well.
1681
01:16:09.715 --> 01:16:13.350
I hope I can put her mind
at peace, at ease.
1682
01:16:13.427 --> 01:16:16.186
I just want her to be well.
[chuckles]
1683
01:16:16.263 --> 01:16:19.064
♪ ♪
1684
01:16:19.075 --> 01:16:21.066
- At the end of the day,
1685
01:16:21.077 --> 01:16:24.320
Philadelphia made her a hero.
1686
01:16:24.396 --> 01:16:26.196
For who? For us?
1687
01:16:26.231 --> 01:16:28.624
No, she wasn't a hero for me.
1688
01:16:30.402 --> 01:16:32.536
I'm yet--after 30 years,
1689
01:16:32.571 --> 01:16:35.539
I'm yet to hear one apology--
just, "I'm sorry."
1690
01:16:35.574 --> 01:16:38.542
♪ ♪
1691
01:16:38.577 --> 01:16:43.172
She was the snake,
lying on us.
1692
01:16:43.248 --> 01:16:44.715
She would tell him
1693
01:16:44.792 --> 01:16:48.218
That we doing certain things
so he can beat us.
1694
01:16:48.295 --> 01:16:50.554
She was there so long
to the point
1695
01:16:50.631 --> 01:16:55.059
That she started
acting like him for real.
1696
01:16:55.094 --> 01:16:56.685
She killed debbie.
1697
01:16:56.762 --> 01:16:59.730
I don't think nobody had
to die to get out of there.
1698
01:16:59.765 --> 01:17:02.566
I can't even tell you
how I'ma feel when I see her.
1699
01:17:02.601 --> 01:17:05.569
I don't know if I'ma run up
to her and start punching her.
1700
01:17:05.604 --> 01:17:08.072
I don't know if I'm gonna
run up to her and hug her.
1701
01:17:08.148 --> 01:17:12.576
All I can tell you is that I'm
willing to take this chance.
1702
01:17:12.611 --> 01:17:16.246
At the end of the day,
this is not about me or her.
1703
01:17:16.281 --> 01:17:17.548
This story bigger than us.
1704
01:17:32.631 --> 01:17:35.599
♪ ♪
1705
01:17:35.634 --> 01:17:38.486
[grunts]
1706
01:17:38.562 --> 01:17:40.154
Oh, over there.
1707
01:17:40.231 --> 01:17:47.078
♪ ♪
1708
01:17:58.523 --> 01:18:01.291
[dramatic music]
1709
01:18:01.326 --> 01:18:05.012
♪ ♪
1710
01:18:05.089 --> 01:18:07.464
- We're gonna meet
jackie today,
1711
01:18:07.499 --> 01:18:11.268
Who I haven't seen
in 30-some years.
1712
01:18:13.097 --> 01:18:16.023
- After 30 years,
I'm yet to hear one apology--
1713
01:18:16.100 --> 01:18:18.475
Just, "I'm sorry."
1714
01:18:18.552 --> 01:18:21.311
She had to tell this man
all this stuff
1715
01:18:21.346 --> 01:18:23.355
For him to come at us.
1716
01:18:23.366 --> 01:18:26.150
He would beat us, beat us.
1717
01:18:26.185 --> 01:18:28.327
Why would she do this to us?
1718
01:18:36.120 --> 01:18:38.495
♪ ♪
1719
01:18:38.572 --> 01:18:41.549
- At the end of the day,
it's not about me or her.
1720
01:18:41.625 --> 01:18:44.001
This story bigger than us.
1721
01:18:44.077 --> 01:18:50.299
♪ ♪
1722
01:18:50.375 --> 01:18:52.134
A lot happened since I last--
1723
01:18:52.211 --> 01:18:54.136
- I'm sure we gone through
a whole lot of mess.
1724
01:18:54.213 --> 01:18:56.313
- Yes.
1725
01:18:58.717 --> 01:19:02.519
I ain't gonna lie,
I did have some hate for you.
1726
01:19:02.596 --> 01:19:05.189
I blamed you for a lot of stuff
that happened down there.
1727
01:19:05.265 --> 01:19:06.648
- I'm sure.
1728
01:19:06.725 --> 01:19:08.358
- My reason for being mad
at you
1729
01:19:08.393 --> 01:19:10.402
Had a lot to do
with that basement.
1730
01:19:10.413 --> 01:19:13.414
I didn't understand why--
1731
01:19:13.491 --> 01:19:16.074
A lot of stuff
you did down there.
1732
01:19:16.085 --> 01:19:18.827
You telling heidnik
we was yelling and screaming,
1733
01:19:18.904 --> 01:19:21.589
Making him beat us
more and more.
1734
01:19:21.665 --> 01:19:23.591
That sh-- broke me down.
1735
01:19:23.667 --> 01:19:26.093
My body was so ----ed.
- Yeah.
1736
01:19:26.170 --> 01:19:27.762
- But--and when we got out,
they kept saying,
1737
01:19:27.838 --> 01:19:30.506
"but what about rivera?
She's not on your side.
1738
01:19:30.582 --> 01:19:33.550
She was getting that
lovey-dovey from gary heidnik."
1739
01:19:33.627 --> 01:19:35.844
- I don't know.
I'm not upset about it.
1740
01:19:35.921 --> 01:19:37.387
- When they used to lie--
- because I knew--
1741
01:19:37.422 --> 01:19:39.056
What I needed to do, I did.
1742
01:19:39.132 --> 01:19:40.849
There's a lot
of misinformation there.
1743
01:19:40.926 --> 01:19:42.610
I was only free, like,
two or three days.
1744
01:19:42.686 --> 01:19:44.612
And after I was out of chains,
1745
01:19:44.688 --> 01:19:47.231
I know I purposely made sure
I never came downstairs
1746
01:19:47.266 --> 01:19:48.265
So he wouldn't go to y'all--
1747
01:19:48.301 --> 01:19:51.118
- They was trying to tell me
that rivera did it
1748
01:19:51.195 --> 01:19:55.122
Because she had
no other choice.
1749
01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:58.075
And it was, like,
an argument there.
1750
01:19:58.151 --> 01:19:59.794
And so I said,
"well, would you like me
1751
01:19:59.870 --> 01:20:01.370
"to put you
in a ----ing basement
1752
01:20:01.446 --> 01:20:03.288
And do you like he did us?"
1753
01:20:03.299 --> 01:20:06.250
And I put rivera
down here with you.
1754
01:20:06.326 --> 01:20:09.127
And then you tell me
if you got a damn choice.
1755
01:20:09.138 --> 01:20:12.089
"oh, well,
rivera had to do that.
1756
01:20:12.165 --> 01:20:15.592
"she had to do it,
but we gonna give her immunity
1757
01:20:15.627 --> 01:20:17.478
If she tell us everything."
1758
01:20:17.555 --> 01:20:19.263
I said, "well, if you
give her immunity,
1759
01:20:19.298 --> 01:20:21.649
Then she could just tell you
that she killed debbie."
1760
01:20:21.725 --> 01:20:24.652
- Right.
Okay, so let's clarify this.
1761
01:20:24.728 --> 01:20:27.437
First of all, at no time did
the district attorney's office
1762
01:20:27.514 --> 01:20:31.325
Ever press any kind of charges
against me for anything.
1763
01:20:31.402 --> 01:20:32.660
There was no reason
to give me immunity,
1764
01:20:32.736 --> 01:20:34.152
'cause I was a victim.
1765
01:20:34.163 --> 01:20:36.446
- I just didn't see it
the way they seen it.
1766
01:20:36.481 --> 01:20:38.282
- Because no--
now, see, here's the thing.
1767
01:20:38.317 --> 01:20:40.576
None of y'all really knew
what was going on.
1768
01:20:40.652 --> 01:20:42.411
Everybody kind of assumes.
1769
01:20:42.487 --> 01:20:44.746
Even when the police
finally came down there,
1770
01:20:44.823 --> 01:20:47.165
Nobody even really knew
that it was because
1771
01:20:47.176 --> 01:20:48.917
Of what my actions were.
1772
01:20:48.994 --> 01:20:51.962
After he got me to go with him
to get agnes,
1773
01:20:51.997 --> 01:20:53.197
I told him I wanted to go see
my family,
1774
01:20:53.273 --> 01:20:55.966
But he couldn't go with me,
and that's how we got free.
1775
01:20:56.001 --> 01:20:57.676
They just made it
like they just happened
1776
01:20:57.687 --> 01:20:59.520
To come to the house,
and y'all were rescued.
1777
01:20:59.597 --> 01:21:03.190
- I just figured--you know
how them people that say
1778
01:21:03.267 --> 01:21:05.693
That they been
through something,
1779
01:21:05.769 --> 01:21:07.269
And they come out acting like
1780
01:21:07.346 --> 01:21:09.271
The person
that victimized them?
1781
01:21:09.348 --> 01:21:10.439
- Right.
1782
01:21:10.515 --> 01:21:11.940
- That's what
I thought happened.
1783
01:21:12.017 --> 01:21:13.775
- No.
1784
01:21:13.852 --> 01:21:18.697
But at no time
did I ever think about leaving.
1785
01:21:18.708 --> 01:21:20.324
Right?
1786
01:21:20.400 --> 01:21:25.162
My whole plan was always
to make sure y'all were safe,
1787
01:21:25.238 --> 01:21:27.331
I was safe,
he couldn't get back to us.
1788
01:21:27.407 --> 01:21:29.499
- Mm-hmm.
- So whatever appears,
1789
01:21:29.576 --> 01:21:32.461
It was just nothing more
than that.
1790
01:21:32.537 --> 01:21:35.222
I'm surprised it even worked,
but it did.
1791
01:21:35.299 --> 01:21:37.674
- It was meant to work.
- Amen.
1792
01:21:37.751 --> 01:21:39.894
- And now I don't know
if that plan with debbie
1793
01:21:39.970 --> 01:21:41.553
Would've worked.
- Right.
1794
01:21:41.564 --> 01:21:44.181
- I think the one you did
was the best one.
1795
01:21:44.216 --> 01:21:45.682
At the end of the day, we here.
1796
01:21:45.759 --> 01:21:48.352
- Yeah, we are.
I'm glad to see you.
1797
01:21:48.428 --> 01:21:51.688
- Did you feel like you was
gonna ever get out of there?
1798
01:21:51.765 --> 01:21:53.899
- Well, I think I said
from the beginning,
1799
01:21:53.910 --> 01:21:57.235
I walked in there,
and I was gonna walk out.
1800
01:21:57.246 --> 01:21:59.363
- I had a real hard time
walking out.
1801
01:21:59.398 --> 01:22:00.748
- I know it.
1802
01:22:00.824 --> 01:22:02.750
- I was mentally
and physically abusing myself
1803
01:22:02.826 --> 01:22:04.701
All over again...
- Hmm.
1804
01:22:04.778 --> 01:22:07.663
'cause I was lost.
- Mm.
1805
01:22:07.739 --> 01:22:09.539
You know,
wherever your mind was
1806
01:22:09.616 --> 01:22:12.417
These last past years
after being free
1807
01:22:12.428 --> 01:22:13.710
Doesn't even matter.
1808
01:22:13.745 --> 01:22:17.264
- I wish we could've said this
30 years ago.
1809
01:22:17.341 --> 01:22:19.341
- Right.
- We should've been together.
1810
01:22:19.418 --> 01:22:20.342
- Together, yeah.
1811
01:22:20.419 --> 01:22:22.511
It would've probably made
a lot of difference.
1812
01:22:22.587 --> 01:22:24.846
- Sometimes when we
get in situations like this,
1813
01:22:24.923 --> 01:22:27.849
It's not an apology
that's needed or to be said
1814
01:22:27.926 --> 01:22:30.227
To be accepted.
- Exactly.
1815
01:22:30.303 --> 01:22:34.231
- And the person that should be
apologizing to us is not here.
1816
01:22:34.307 --> 01:22:36.233
- Right.
1817
01:22:36.309 --> 01:22:38.735
- I really wanted him
to see us now.
1818
01:22:38.812 --> 01:22:45.584
♪ ♪
1819
01:22:47.964 --> 01:22:50.798
- A horrific crime was solved.
1820
01:22:50.874 --> 01:22:52.874
Justice is done.
1821
01:22:52.951 --> 01:22:55.585
But there
should have been justice
1822
01:22:55.620 --> 01:22:57.754
For the victims themselves.
1823
01:22:57.831 --> 01:23:01.800
And that's where the system
fails too often.
1824
01:23:01.811 --> 01:23:03.593
- If gary heidnik's victims
1825
01:23:03.628 --> 01:23:04.979
Had been
middle-class white women,
1826
01:23:05.055 --> 01:23:06.647
Everything
would've been different.
1827
01:23:06.724 --> 01:23:10.818
I think there would've been
more help for these women.
1828
01:23:10.894 --> 01:23:13.270
More organizations would've
come forward to help them.
1829
01:23:13.346 --> 01:23:14.822
And absolutely,
it would've been different.
1830
01:23:14.898 --> 01:23:17.399
- You got a monster
off the street,
1831
01:23:17.476 --> 01:23:19.910
But what about the monster
in their heads?
1832
01:23:21.646 --> 01:23:24.999
- I still think about it,
you know.
1833
01:23:25.075 --> 01:23:28.285
I still think about josefina.
1834
01:23:28.361 --> 01:23:30.787
Months afterwards, I bumped
into her on the street.
1835
01:23:30.822 --> 01:23:34.583
I was talking to her,
and I asked how she was doing.
1836
01:23:34.659 --> 01:23:36.626
And she said she's getting by.
1837
01:23:36.661 --> 01:23:39.629
- In 1987, the resources
and the organizations
1838
01:23:39.706 --> 01:23:41.631
Weren't there for those women.
1839
01:23:41.666 --> 01:23:43.851
Over time, that has changed.
1840
01:23:43.927 --> 01:23:46.854
- We talk so much
about victims' rights,
1841
01:23:46.930 --> 01:23:49.639
But we don't do enough.
1842
01:23:49.716 --> 01:23:52.017
- Irrespective
of how they got there,
1843
01:23:52.028 --> 01:23:53.861
They're still victims
of the crime,
1844
01:23:53.937 --> 01:23:58.023
And society needs
to see them as that.
1845
01:23:58.034 --> 01:24:02.027
- I learned something
through my journey with this.
1846
01:24:02.038 --> 01:24:04.821
I'ma have to let it go,
'cause at the end of the day,
1847
01:24:04.856 --> 01:24:07.824
It's killing me
to keep it there.
1848
01:24:07.901 --> 01:24:10.878
I got to let it go
in order to live.
1849
01:24:10.954 --> 01:24:13.830
♪ ♪
1850
01:24:13.907 --> 01:24:15.665
- I was happy to see her,
1851
01:24:15.700 --> 01:24:17.709
Happy to see she's doing
as well as she was doing.
1852
01:24:17.720 --> 01:24:21.463
My main objective was
to put her mind at ease.
1853
01:24:21.540 --> 01:24:24.391
- Just being around her
1854
01:24:24.468 --> 01:24:28.345
Made it a more positive energy
for me.
1855
01:24:28.380 --> 01:24:30.472
- If she calls me,
I will always answer.
1856
01:24:30.549 --> 01:24:32.682
I think she should be able
to move on,
1857
01:24:32.717 --> 01:24:35.393
'cause she does have
some understanding.
1858
01:24:35.404 --> 01:24:37.687
- I just hope
from this day forward,
1859
01:24:37.764 --> 01:24:39.523
Me and her can have
a relationship,
1860
01:24:39.558 --> 01:24:43.911
Because we the only two
know what we went through.
1861
01:24:43.987 --> 01:24:46.530
Maybe that's what we both
missing out of our life--
1862
01:24:46.606 --> 01:24:48.532
Each other.
1863
01:24:48.567 --> 01:24:55.506
♪ ♪