1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:04,045 --> 00:00:08,717 NARRATOR: Two apex predators dominate the ocean, 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,638 the great white shark, a lone hunter. 5 00:00:14,556 --> 00:00:18,393 And the orca, known as the killer whale. 6 00:00:24,774 --> 00:00:29,487 Both sit atop the oceanic food chain so when orca begin to 7 00:00:29,571 --> 00:00:32,907 hunt great white sharks in South Africa, 8 00:00:32,991 --> 00:00:36,202 it's big news. 9 00:00:37,078 --> 00:00:40,373 Experts want to know will it happen again, 10 00:00:40,457 --> 00:00:43,418 and if so where? 11 00:00:45,587 --> 00:00:48,715 (theme music plays) 12 00:00:56,097 --> 00:00:58,099 It's happened before, 13 00:00:58,183 --> 00:01:02,854 orca have hunted and killed great white sharks. 14 00:01:02,937 --> 00:01:05,065 One of the first reported cases off the coast of 15 00:01:05,148 --> 00:01:08,234 California in 1997. 16 00:01:08,318 --> 00:01:12,238 And again in 2017 off South Africa. 17 00:01:12,322 --> 00:01:15,450 Five dead white sharks washed ashore. 18 00:01:15,533 --> 00:01:19,913 Shark scientists wondered why orca would hunt dangerous prey 19 00:01:19,996 --> 00:01:21,664 like a white shark. 20 00:01:21,748 --> 00:01:24,459 With attacks happening in oceans around the world, 21 00:01:24,542 --> 00:01:28,088 experts are looking for similarities and patterns, 22 00:01:28,171 --> 00:01:32,050 and what the effect would be on the marine ecosystem. 23 00:01:33,802 --> 00:01:36,763 Particularly in New Zealand. 24 00:01:36,846 --> 00:01:41,226 KINA: When the orca started to kill the great white sharks in South Africa, 25 00:01:41,309 --> 00:01:43,436 the rest of the sharks actually disappeared 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,939 and haven't come back for years. 27 00:01:46,022 --> 00:01:48,399 If that happened in New Zealand, 28 00:01:48,483 --> 00:01:51,528 not only would we lose this population of great whites 29 00:01:51,611 --> 00:01:54,781 that we've learned so much about but it would also be 30 00:01:54,864 --> 00:01:57,492 disastrous for this ecosystem to lose 31 00:01:57,575 --> 00:01:59,911 an apex predator like that. 32 00:02:01,329 --> 00:02:04,124 NARRATOR: There are several theories about exactly why 33 00:02:04,207 --> 00:02:05,917 the sharks vanished. 34 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,586 But the coincidence of the orca attacks 35 00:02:08,670 --> 00:02:12,590 and the disappearance of the sharks is hard to ignore. 36 00:02:12,674 --> 00:02:15,218 And there's a lot at stake, 37 00:02:15,301 --> 00:02:19,013 including the health of the marine ecosystem. 38 00:02:21,015 --> 00:02:24,394 New Zealand has a local orca population 39 00:02:24,477 --> 00:02:27,230 of between 150 and 200. 40 00:02:28,314 --> 00:02:30,525 While the white shark aggregation is one of the 41 00:02:30,608 --> 00:02:32,819 largest in the world. 42 00:02:33,570 --> 00:02:37,365 Estimated to be over 5,000. 43 00:02:38,741 --> 00:02:42,453 If the orca begin to go after white sharks here, 44 00:02:42,537 --> 00:02:45,498 they have plenty to choose from. 45 00:02:49,210 --> 00:02:52,672 New Zealanders Kina Scollay and Dr. Ingrid Visser 46 00:02:52,755 --> 00:02:54,883 are investigating. 47 00:02:54,966 --> 00:02:58,678 Orca could be hunting great white sharks already. 48 00:02:58,761 --> 00:03:00,722 But no white sharks have washed up 49 00:03:00,805 --> 00:03:03,183 on New Zealand beaches. 50 00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:09,731 So, they're searching for other signs of orca predation. 51 00:03:11,441 --> 00:03:15,820 Any strange behavior, wounds from an encounter, 52 00:03:15,904 --> 00:03:20,742 anything that points to orca hunting white sharks. 53 00:03:21,201 --> 00:03:22,744 INGRID: I'm coming down the port side. 54 00:03:23,953 --> 00:03:25,330 KINA: Roger. 55 00:03:27,582 --> 00:03:30,335 It really is interesting, Ingrid. What do you think? 56 00:03:33,254 --> 00:03:35,757 NARRATOR: Local great whites are in New Zealand waters from 57 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,052 December to June, when many will leave on their 58 00:03:39,135 --> 00:03:42,972 annual 2,000 mile migration, to the coast of Australia, 59 00:03:43,056 --> 00:03:45,642 and the Tropical Pacific. 60 00:03:46,809 --> 00:03:51,689 Local orca, on the other hand, remain in New Zealand waters all year round, 61 00:03:51,773 --> 00:03:54,984 roaming the coastline in search of prey. 62 00:03:57,153 --> 00:04:00,531 Ingrid is New Zealand's top orca specialist. 63 00:04:00,615 --> 00:04:04,827 But today is her first dive with great white sharks. 64 00:04:05,245 --> 00:04:08,039 KINA: I'm pretty psyched to get you in a cage with, uh, 65 00:04:08,581 --> 00:04:12,335 my favorite population of great white sharks in the world. 66 00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:16,923 INGRID: I have to admit, I'm pretty pumped about it myself, that's for sure! 67 00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:20,301 Wow! 68 00:04:22,011 --> 00:04:23,596 KINA: What do you think? 69 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,975 INGRID: It's pretty amazing, Kina, to see New Zealand sharks this close. 70 00:04:32,397 --> 00:04:35,566 I really expected to be quite scared, but 71 00:04:35,650 --> 00:04:39,153 in the safety of the cage here, it's quite impressive to just watch them 72 00:04:39,779 --> 00:04:41,906 doing their great white shark thing, right? 73 00:04:50,790 --> 00:04:51,666 Wow! 74 00:04:52,333 --> 00:04:53,835 He snuck up on us! 75 00:04:56,671 --> 00:04:58,756 KINA: That's their specialty! 76 00:05:01,175 --> 00:05:04,929 NARRATOR: Great white sharks in this area are curious and aggressive, 77 00:05:05,013 --> 00:05:07,682 which makes them dangerous. 78 00:05:09,517 --> 00:05:12,270 Orca and white sharks have shared the top of the ocean 79 00:05:12,353 --> 00:05:15,273 food chain for millions of years. 80 00:05:15,356 --> 00:05:19,277 So why would orca attack great whites like these now? 81 00:05:20,028 --> 00:05:22,238 INGRID: Even though orca are the largest of the 82 00:05:22,322 --> 00:05:24,782 dolphin family and they can be friendly, 83 00:05:24,866 --> 00:05:26,784 we still have to consider that they are one of the top 84 00:05:26,868 --> 00:05:28,870 predators of the ocean. 85 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,958 NARRATOR: Ingrid's research tracks the 200 or so orca 86 00:05:34,042 --> 00:05:36,794 living in New Zealand's waters. 87 00:05:36,878 --> 00:05:39,047 INGRID: Yeah, I know, big guy! Hang in there. 88 00:05:39,130 --> 00:05:41,883 The exciting thing about this adventure for me is that we've 89 00:05:41,966 --> 00:05:45,011 got two top predators, and we don't really know 90 00:05:45,094 --> 00:05:46,512 what's happening between them. 91 00:05:53,019 --> 00:05:55,313 NARRATOR: Orca and white sharks are the top 92 00:05:55,396 --> 00:05:57,482 two ocean predators. 93 00:05:57,565 --> 00:06:00,610 Yet they're fundamentally different. 94 00:06:02,403 --> 00:06:05,573 Orca are air-breathing mammals. 95 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,620 White sharks are water-breathing fish. 96 00:06:11,204 --> 00:06:13,498 Orcas live in pods of up to 40, 97 00:06:13,581 --> 00:06:17,460 made up of individual family units that remain together 98 00:06:17,543 --> 00:06:20,671 for life and hunt cooperatively. 99 00:06:21,923 --> 00:06:25,510 Some new research suggests white sharks may occasionally 100 00:06:25,593 --> 00:06:27,595 hunt in groups. 101 00:06:28,638 --> 00:06:31,099 But they tend to hunt alone. 102 00:06:33,851 --> 00:06:38,898 The largest great white ever recorded measured over 20 feet 103 00:06:38,981 --> 00:06:42,360 and weighed 5,000 pounds. 104 00:06:42,443 --> 00:06:44,862 Small for an orca. 105 00:06:44,946 --> 00:06:47,573 Killer whales can grow to 30 feet or more. 106 00:06:47,657 --> 00:06:51,911 And weigh as much as 20,000 pounds. 107 00:06:55,164 --> 00:06:56,707 But as different as they are, 108 00:06:56,791 --> 00:06:59,877 orca and great whites are both sophisticated, 109 00:06:59,961 --> 00:07:04,382 tough, and hungry predators. 110 00:07:07,009 --> 00:07:09,178 KINA: Whoa, this is a big animal. 111 00:07:10,304 --> 00:07:13,891 NARRATOR: Kina and Ingrid dive again and again. 112 00:07:13,975 --> 00:07:16,310 Searching for evidence. 113 00:07:24,652 --> 00:07:27,238 KINA: Well, that was a pretty amazing interaction, Ingrid! 114 00:07:27,321 --> 00:07:30,992 Those two sharks actually physically bumped into each other! 115 00:07:31,993 --> 00:07:34,745 Nobody wanted to back down, and they were leaning 116 00:07:34,829 --> 00:07:39,000 pectoral fin onto pectoral fin. That's quite a sight! 117 00:07:39,959 --> 00:07:44,255 INGRID: I think this was more of a, you know, "get out of my territory" interaction. 118 00:07:44,338 --> 00:07:48,134 I don't doubt that if the orca were going to take on one of these great white sharks, 119 00:07:48,217 --> 00:07:51,429 they would be thinking very carefully about it before they did. 120 00:07:53,181 --> 00:07:55,308 There wouldn't be a mistake, and it wouldn't be something 121 00:07:55,391 --> 00:07:57,393 that they would take on lightly. 122 00:08:03,357 --> 00:08:06,819 Yeah, there seems to be a very strong hierarchy going on here. 123 00:08:08,529 --> 00:08:12,867 When you see that with orca, it's usually a nice social interaction. 124 00:08:15,786 --> 00:08:19,624 It really is an impressive, predator on predator interaction, that's for sure. 125 00:08:30,051 --> 00:08:32,136 NARRATOR: In 2017, 126 00:08:32,220 --> 00:08:35,306 a predator-on-predator interaction of another kind 127 00:08:35,389 --> 00:08:39,352 took place along the coast of South Africa. 128 00:08:39,435 --> 00:08:44,315 Five dead great white sharks washed up on local beaches. 129 00:08:45,274 --> 00:08:47,527 The news is shocking. 130 00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:50,613 Scientists conducted an investigation. 131 00:08:50,696 --> 00:08:54,659 Of all the evidence collected, it was the bite marks on the 132 00:08:54,742 --> 00:08:57,995 shark bodies that revealed the killers. 133 00:08:58,079 --> 00:09:01,249 The teeth marks belonged to orca. 134 00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:09,173 Stranger still, the killer whales had taken only 135 00:09:09,257 --> 00:09:14,428 the shark livers and left the rest of the bodies untouched. 136 00:09:14,512 --> 00:09:18,182 This was the first recorded case of orcas killing 137 00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:20,851 white sharks in South Africa. 138 00:09:20,935 --> 00:09:23,729 Shark and orca scientists wondered when and where it 139 00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:26,232 might happen again. 140 00:09:26,315 --> 00:09:29,026 INGRID: We can't rule out that the orca here in New Zealand 141 00:09:29,110 --> 00:09:31,862 could hunt great white sharks in exactly the same way. 142 00:09:38,953 --> 00:09:42,123 NARRATOR: The Foveaux Strait sits at the southern end 143 00:09:42,206 --> 00:09:43,916 of New Zealand. 144 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,546 Over 6,000 miles to the east of South Africa. 145 00:09:50,131 --> 00:09:53,718 Both regions have large populations of great whites 146 00:09:53,801 --> 00:09:56,887 and roaming pods of orca. 147 00:09:56,971 --> 00:10:00,224 A combination that resulted in a fatal confrontation 148 00:10:00,308 --> 00:10:02,101 in South Africa. 149 00:10:02,184 --> 00:10:06,230 And if white sharks and orca ever cross paths in New Zealand, 150 00:10:06,314 --> 00:10:08,899 this is where it could happen, 151 00:10:08,983 --> 00:10:10,985 in the Foveaux Strait. 152 00:10:14,322 --> 00:10:18,284 ♪ ♪ 153 00:10:23,831 --> 00:10:25,583 KINA: We've got a couple of good players here. 154 00:10:25,666 --> 00:10:28,711 There's two sharks that are pretty boisterous. 155 00:10:37,762 --> 00:10:39,263 It's pretty cool! 156 00:10:40,014 --> 00:10:41,891 NARRATOR: Large, boisterous, 157 00:10:41,974 --> 00:10:45,269 and aggressive great white sharks. 158 00:10:47,021 --> 00:10:49,649 What possible motive could an orca have for attacking 159 00:10:49,732 --> 00:10:51,734 a great white? 160 00:10:51,817 --> 00:10:54,779 There isn't a clear answer. 161 00:10:54,862 --> 00:10:58,074 But to Ingrid, it makes some sense. 162 00:10:59,492 --> 00:11:01,243 INGRID (off-screen): Typically, in New Zealand, 163 00:11:01,327 --> 00:11:03,537 the orcas are not just targeting prey to take 164 00:11:03,621 --> 00:11:05,081 the whole thing. 165 00:11:05,164 --> 00:11:08,250 They're focused on particular parts of them 166 00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:09,877 and that's the liver! 167 00:11:11,337 --> 00:11:14,882 NARRATOR: When the South African orcas killed the great whites, 168 00:11:14,965 --> 00:11:17,927 this is what they did. 169 00:11:18,010 --> 00:11:21,806 Hunting for liver with great precision. 170 00:11:28,521 --> 00:11:31,524 Liver is a prize for any predator. 171 00:11:31,607 --> 00:11:37,029 To hunt, mate, and migrate thousands of miles, 172 00:11:37,113 --> 00:11:39,699 takes energy. 173 00:11:42,535 --> 00:11:45,454 Liver is pure fuel. 174 00:11:45,538 --> 00:11:49,291 So when they hunt, they're filling the tank. 175 00:11:54,463 --> 00:11:58,634 New Zealand orca feed on the 25 species of rays and 176 00:11:58,718 --> 00:12:02,096 skates that swim in local waters. 177 00:12:02,179 --> 00:12:06,559 The preference for rays is unique to orca in New Zealand. 178 00:12:08,102 --> 00:12:11,605 But recently local orca have acquired 179 00:12:11,689 --> 00:12:14,650 a taste for shark liver. 180 00:12:14,734 --> 00:12:19,238 From a smaller cousin of the great white, the sevengill. 181 00:12:25,244 --> 00:12:28,664 And evidence suggests South African orca 182 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:32,001 started on sevengill sharks 183 00:12:34,420 --> 00:12:39,049 and graduated to great whites. 184 00:12:46,056 --> 00:12:48,642 NARRATOR: Ingrid Visser and Kina Scollay are looking for 185 00:12:48,726 --> 00:12:52,104 evidence that orca are hunting great white sharks 186 00:12:52,188 --> 00:12:54,690 in New Zealand waters. 187 00:12:54,774 --> 00:12:57,943 Ingrid has evidence that there's a disturbing pattern 188 00:12:58,027 --> 00:13:00,696 in orca hunting. 189 00:13:00,780 --> 00:13:04,074 New Zealand orca are hunting sevengill sharks, 190 00:13:04,158 --> 00:13:08,454 just like the South African orca. 191 00:13:09,789 --> 00:13:13,918 Sevengill sharks grow to nine feet long and 200 pounds. 192 00:13:14,001 --> 00:13:18,631 A much larger meal for an orca than a small ray. 193 00:13:18,714 --> 00:13:22,802 But the sevengill shark is no easy prey. 194 00:13:23,969 --> 00:13:26,472 INGRID: Sevengills are relatively new on the orca menu, 195 00:13:26,555 --> 00:13:28,974 but I've seen it a few times now. 196 00:13:29,058 --> 00:13:31,477 INGRID (off-screen): You see the orca, and they're very, 197 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,229 very precise in how they do it. 198 00:13:33,312 --> 00:13:36,273 I've got footage of the orca with the sevengills where 199 00:13:36,357 --> 00:13:37,733 they've ripped the pectoral fin, 200 00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,026 right under the pectoral girdle there. 201 00:13:39,109 --> 00:13:40,152 KINA (off-screen): Right. 202 00:13:40,236 --> 00:13:41,779 INGRID: And they've extracted the liver. 203 00:13:42,988 --> 00:13:45,407 WOMAN (off-screen): Wee! Oh, there's a shark. 204 00:13:45,491 --> 00:13:47,076 WOMAN (off-screen): Oh, shark. Shark. 205 00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:50,037 INGRID (off-screen): One of the things I find fascinating is how the 206 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,414 sevengills will actually turn and defend themselves 207 00:13:52,498 --> 00:13:54,375 against the orca. 208 00:13:59,004 --> 00:14:00,422 The way the orca hunt the sevengills 209 00:14:00,506 --> 00:14:02,258 is pretty impressive. 210 00:14:02,341 --> 00:14:05,594 First of all they'll come in and they'll karate chop the shark, 211 00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:07,263 so they'll just come and lift their tail up and 212 00:14:07,346 --> 00:14:09,223 whack them on the back. 213 00:14:14,854 --> 00:14:17,439 Then they grab the sharks by the pectoral fin and rip them 214 00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:19,275 open and pull the livers out. 215 00:14:21,193 --> 00:14:23,946 NARRATOR: Ingrid captured rare footage of orcas hunting 216 00:14:24,029 --> 00:14:26,782 sevengills in Northern New Zealand. 217 00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:39,879 ♪ ♪ 218 00:14:46,594 --> 00:14:51,140 Their precision in hunting for shark liver is clear. 219 00:14:59,064 --> 00:15:01,859 KINA (off-screen): What's really fascinating is that in South Africa, 220 00:15:01,942 --> 00:15:04,695 the orca started by hunting sevengills, 221 00:15:04,778 --> 00:15:08,699 and then they moved on to the great white sharks. 222 00:15:08,782 --> 00:15:11,493 So knowing what's gone on in South Africa, 223 00:15:11,577 --> 00:15:15,956 what concerns me is exactly the same thing could happen here. 224 00:15:18,751 --> 00:15:21,587 NARRATOR: A concentration of sevengill sharks lives up 225 00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:24,423 along the western coast of New Zealand. 226 00:15:25,382 --> 00:15:27,885 Kina has dived with them for years, 227 00:15:27,968 --> 00:15:31,055 knows just where they live, and how they behave. 228 00:15:31,138 --> 00:15:32,181 KINA (over radio): Beautiful. 229 00:15:33,974 --> 00:15:36,518 NARRATOR: They decide to drop in and see if the sevengills 230 00:15:36,602 --> 00:15:39,688 can give them any clues. 231 00:15:43,484 --> 00:15:45,945 Fiordland National Park is a vast, 232 00:15:46,028 --> 00:15:48,238 remote wilderness on the western shore 233 00:15:48,322 --> 00:15:50,866 of New Zealand's south island. 234 00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:55,412 Most areas are accessible only by helicopter or boat. 235 00:15:55,496 --> 00:15:56,705 KINA (over radio): You know really, 236 00:15:56,789 --> 00:15:58,248 you fly over these mountains and 237 00:15:58,332 --> 00:16:01,126 you're in a completely different world, 238 00:16:01,210 --> 00:16:02,544 and then under the water, 239 00:16:02,628 --> 00:16:03,963 it's completely different again. 240 00:16:04,046 --> 00:16:06,799 Different to just about anywhere else you'll dive. 241 00:16:06,882 --> 00:16:08,133 Amazing. 242 00:16:10,010 --> 00:16:11,720 NARRATOR: These deep fiords are murky, 243 00:16:11,804 --> 00:16:15,057 stained with tannins from the ancient forest. 244 00:16:15,140 --> 00:16:18,727 It makes the water dark, even in the middle of the day. 245 00:16:22,815 --> 00:16:25,359 If orcas came here to hunt sevengills, 246 00:16:25,442 --> 00:16:29,321 it's possible no one would ever know. 247 00:16:29,822 --> 00:16:32,658 KINA (over radio): I actually haven't been in here for about two years. 248 00:16:32,741 --> 00:16:34,076 INGRID (over radio): Wow. 249 00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:36,078 KINA (over radio): And that's after diving here month in, 250 00:16:36,161 --> 00:16:39,415 month out for many years, and I really felt like 251 00:16:39,498 --> 00:16:41,667 I knew these sevengills so well. 252 00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:43,794 All this talk about orca eating them, 253 00:16:43,877 --> 00:16:46,422 I just kind of want to come and have a look. 254 00:16:46,505 --> 00:16:47,881 INGRID (over radio): Yeah. 255 00:16:47,965 --> 00:16:49,341 Absolutely Kina, and I mean look, 256 00:16:49,425 --> 00:16:51,760 that ties in with the sightings we've had recently 257 00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:53,804 of the orca coming down this bit of coastline, 258 00:16:53,887 --> 00:16:56,807 so I'd be fascinated to know if they're coming up here 259 00:16:56,890 --> 00:16:58,100 to your sevengills. 260 00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:04,565 NARRATOR: The only place for Kina and Ingrid to land is on 261 00:17:04,648 --> 00:17:08,068 a small fishing trawler, in the middle of nowhere. 262 00:17:13,866 --> 00:17:17,077 KINA (off-screen): My little secret spot is only just literally one 263 00:17:17,161 --> 00:17:18,746 minute's flying time from here, 264 00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:21,874 so I think it's easiest if I gear up here. 265 00:17:21,957 --> 00:17:23,250 INGRID (off-screen): Right. Yeah. 266 00:17:23,333 --> 00:17:24,793 KINA (off-screen): And then I'm gonna hop in the helicopter, 267 00:17:24,877 --> 00:17:27,087 just buzz around there and bomb in! 268 00:17:31,675 --> 00:17:35,429 ♪ ♪ 269 00:17:41,977 --> 00:17:44,480 NARRATOR: Diving without a cage, 270 00:17:44,563 --> 00:17:47,524 Kina will have to be careful of the sevengills 271 00:17:47,608 --> 00:17:50,194 and keep an eye out for orca. 272 00:17:50,986 --> 00:17:54,198 They could be anywhere. 273 00:17:58,952 --> 00:18:00,662 NARRATOR: Kina Scollay is paying a visit to an 274 00:18:00,746 --> 00:18:03,332 aggregation of sevengill sharks in 275 00:18:03,415 --> 00:18:06,418 Fiordland National Park, New Zealand. 276 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:14,676 And knows just where to find them. 277 00:18:19,264 --> 00:18:22,976 He's looking for any signs that orca are hunting 278 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:24,895 these sevengill sharks. 279 00:18:30,192 --> 00:18:34,530 ♪ ♪ 280 00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:48,168 KINA: The murky water really works well for these guys. 281 00:18:50,629 --> 00:18:53,215 You just can't see them coming. 282 00:19:01,306 --> 00:19:03,767 As they're approaching, you just see the 283 00:19:04,226 --> 00:19:06,937 white under their mouth. 284 00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:12,359 Looks like an evil kind of Joker grin. 285 00:19:13,152 --> 00:19:15,988 And then a shark materializes out of the murk. 286 00:19:19,825 --> 00:19:22,911 NARRATOR: The sevengills are here, 287 00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:26,498 drifting in and out of sight. 288 00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:33,213 Checking out the intruder. 289 00:19:35,048 --> 00:19:39,595 KINA: Scientists have found remains of really big animals inside them. 290 00:19:40,846 --> 00:19:44,224 Prey items as big, or bigger, than a human. 291 00:19:44,725 --> 00:19:49,855 And really, the only way they could do this is if they're pack hunting. 292 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,903 When you see one coming out of the murk, 293 00:19:56,403 --> 00:20:00,032 you almost know there'll be another one coming from one side, 294 00:20:02,201 --> 00:20:03,827 and if you look the other way, 295 00:20:03,911 --> 00:20:06,413 there'll be another one sneaking in there, too. 296 00:20:12,294 --> 00:20:13,420 KINA (over radio): Whoa! 297 00:20:14,213 --> 00:20:15,672 KINA: And they're relentless! 298 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:30,479 Well, it's good to see that these sevengills are here 299 00:20:30,562 --> 00:20:32,898 and up to their usual tricks. 300 00:20:36,777 --> 00:20:38,904 But to be honest, 301 00:20:41,365 --> 00:20:44,243 there's less than I expected to find on this dive. 302 00:20:46,245 --> 00:20:48,413 NARRATOR: Sevengills may be prey for orca, 303 00:20:48,497 --> 00:20:52,000 but these sharks are no pushovers. 304 00:20:52,626 --> 00:20:54,294 KINA: Oh, this one means business! 305 00:20:57,923 --> 00:21:01,468 But it's the ones that sneak up behind that I really have to worry about. 306 00:21:04,096 --> 00:21:05,347 Whoa, I like this guy! 307 00:21:07,307 --> 00:21:09,726 Yeah, these guys are revving up a bit much for me. 308 00:21:12,813 --> 00:21:16,483 I think it's time to get out before they take control of the situation. 309 00:21:24,783 --> 00:21:27,577 That was awesome to go and visit those guys. 310 00:21:27,661 --> 00:21:29,871 INGRID: Yeah, great jump! KINA: Yeah, cheers mate. 311 00:21:29,955 --> 00:21:34,710 KINA (off-screen): That splash and the, and the noise of the helicopter really has to 312 00:21:34,793 --> 00:21:38,255 attract them and they were straight on top of me when I got in, 313 00:21:38,338 --> 00:21:41,341 but not as many as I would've expected to see. 314 00:21:41,425 --> 00:21:42,551 INGRID: Really? 315 00:21:42,634 --> 00:21:45,220 Okay, well that's really interesting because given that 316 00:21:45,304 --> 00:21:47,389 we know historically that orca are coming in here, 317 00:21:47,472 --> 00:21:49,182 and we've had the reports recently, 318 00:21:49,266 --> 00:21:51,685 and now you're seeing less sharks in here too, so, 319 00:21:51,768 --> 00:21:55,480 you know, it's indicative that something's been going on, right? 320 00:21:59,443 --> 00:22:01,903 NARRATOR: Lower sevengill numbers could mean a few 321 00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:06,533 things are going on including predation by larger predators, 322 00:22:06,616 --> 00:22:09,411 like orcas. 323 00:22:10,329 --> 00:22:13,582 That would mark a change in their usual diet. 324 00:22:17,294 --> 00:22:21,506 Traditionally, New Zealand orca hunt the many species 325 00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:25,886 of rays and skates that live in these waters. 326 00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:32,309 Like, all dolphins, they have a special ability to find them. 327 00:22:32,392 --> 00:22:34,436 INGRID: Orca hunt using echolocation, 328 00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:38,231 which is a series of clicks that they send out that bounce 329 00:22:38,315 --> 00:22:41,068 back and give them incredible information. 330 00:22:42,027 --> 00:22:45,572 They can tell even if a shark has a full tummy. 331 00:22:46,281 --> 00:22:48,533 NARRATOR: It works like sonar. 332 00:22:49,534 --> 00:22:52,412 The orca can detect their prey even when it's buried 333 00:22:52,496 --> 00:22:54,247 in the sand. 334 00:22:57,042 --> 00:23:00,712 But, filling up on rays and skates can be hard work 335 00:23:00,796 --> 00:23:03,715 and burn a lot of precious energy. 336 00:23:07,969 --> 00:23:08,970 KINA: All right. 337 00:23:09,054 --> 00:23:10,138 INGRID (off-screen): Do you see them? 338 00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:11,348 Look, they're in a really tight group over here. 339 00:23:11,431 --> 00:23:12,766 Right there. 340 00:23:14,309 --> 00:23:16,812 NARRATOR: Many rays are bottom feeders, 341 00:23:16,895 --> 00:23:20,315 and spend much of their time on or buried in the sandy 342 00:23:20,399 --> 00:23:22,526 ocean floor. 343 00:23:23,819 --> 00:23:28,156 Orca jaws are not designed to grab them off the bottom, 344 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,201 so the orca work together. 345 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,456 Chasing the rays upward and catching them in the open. 346 00:23:41,753 --> 00:23:45,090 But ray hunts don't always go smoothly. 347 00:23:47,134 --> 00:23:51,430 Rays often flee to shallower water, 348 00:23:57,602 --> 00:24:01,356 making it dangerous for the orca. 349 00:24:05,861 --> 00:24:08,280 There is the risk of a fatal stranding 350 00:24:08,363 --> 00:24:10,991 as the tide goes out. 351 00:24:20,959 --> 00:24:25,297 And the ray may still escape. 352 00:24:30,635 --> 00:24:33,597 NARRATOR: When orca hunt rays in New Zealand, 353 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,017 their size is not always an advantage. 354 00:24:40,312 --> 00:24:43,815 ♪ ♪ 355 00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:54,367 After a lot of work and coordinated effort among several orca, 356 00:24:57,496 --> 00:25:00,790 they catch the ray 357 00:25:00,874 --> 00:25:04,878 but it's a tiny payoff for all that effort. 358 00:25:07,172 --> 00:25:12,052 And compared with white sharks rays are a snack. 359 00:25:13,512 --> 00:25:16,723 One 700-pound great white shark liver could be 360 00:25:16,806 --> 00:25:21,436 equivalent to nearly 175 ray livers. 361 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,148 And it's a lot more work to hunt multiple rays. 362 00:25:26,691 --> 00:25:30,278 While it is more dangerous to hunt a single great white, 363 00:25:30,362 --> 00:25:33,532 it might be worth the risk. 364 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,124 KINA: It's really hard not to think when you see animals 365 00:25:43,208 --> 00:25:45,377 that big that their liver must be 366 00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:47,837 gold to a liver-eating orca. 367 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,009 NARRATOR: A great white liver can grow to 25% of the shark's 368 00:25:53,093 --> 00:25:55,220 total weight. 369 00:25:55,303 --> 00:25:58,139 If a 12-foot great white weighs 1,000 pounds, 370 00:25:58,223 --> 00:26:02,686 it may have a liver weighing 250 pounds. 371 00:26:04,104 --> 00:26:07,190 A big pay-off for the orca. 372 00:26:16,908 --> 00:26:20,662 Kina and Ingrid are off one of the Foveaux Strait's large 373 00:26:20,745 --> 00:26:22,956 colonies of seals. 374 00:26:27,252 --> 00:26:31,381 Over the summer, the white sharks consume many. 375 00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:37,512 Their livers are swollen with seal blubber and oil. 376 00:26:39,472 --> 00:26:43,018 Ingrid and Kina are looking at the length of the sharks 377 00:26:43,101 --> 00:26:45,353 to estimate their liver weight. 378 00:26:45,812 --> 00:26:48,565 INGRID: There's one coming up from the starboard side there. 379 00:26:51,151 --> 00:26:52,569 That's coming right in at us. 380 00:26:55,780 --> 00:26:57,824 How big do you think that one is, Kina? 381 00:26:58,450 --> 00:27:01,453 KINA: See, that male there is quite a bit smaller. 382 00:27:02,412 --> 00:27:05,832 And he's well longer than this cage is wide, so, 383 00:27:06,207 --> 00:27:07,500 probably... 384 00:27:08,084 --> 00:27:10,170 three and a half meters? 385 00:27:11,963 --> 00:27:15,550 It's still three or four times bigger than any of the sevengills 386 00:27:15,634 --> 00:27:17,719 I saw on the dive the other day. 387 00:27:19,638 --> 00:27:23,058 NARRATOR: Great white sharks as prey for anything, 388 00:27:23,141 --> 00:27:26,227 even orca, is hard to fathom. 389 00:27:26,311 --> 00:27:29,773 But the orca may see them that way. 390 00:27:29,856 --> 00:27:31,733 INGRID: All our evidence points to the fact that the 391 00:27:31,816 --> 00:27:35,987 New Zealand orca have a very strong culture of hunting sharks. 392 00:27:38,365 --> 00:27:43,119 INGRID (off-screen): If the rays were removed from the food web here in New Zealand, 393 00:27:43,203 --> 00:27:48,583 chances are the orca would shift their food preferences. 394 00:27:49,876 --> 00:27:54,255 And they could start targeting great white sharks in earnest. 395 00:27:54,339 --> 00:27:57,425 NARRATOR: So far the supply of rays and skates 396 00:27:57,509 --> 00:27:59,302 has been ample. 397 00:27:59,386 --> 00:28:03,765 But add warming oceans to natural fluctuations in all 398 00:28:03,848 --> 00:28:07,185 animal populations and it's hard to predict 399 00:28:07,268 --> 00:28:08,436 what will happen. 400 00:28:09,729 --> 00:28:12,190 INGRID: Looks like the size of a horse. 401 00:28:14,859 --> 00:28:18,405 A shark that size, the liver has to be absolutely huge. 402 00:28:23,118 --> 00:28:25,370 KINA: I think we can pretty accurately say 403 00:28:26,037 --> 00:28:30,125 it's 4.2 meters long, or even a little bit bigger. 404 00:28:31,167 --> 00:28:37,215 And that weighs something like 1200 kilos, or 2500 pounds. 405 00:28:42,053 --> 00:28:44,723 That's a mighty, mighty feed for a 406 00:28:44,806 --> 00:28:46,349 liver-eating orca. 407 00:28:49,686 --> 00:28:53,690 INGRID: I think a shark that size would be a feast for a whole family, mate. 408 00:28:54,232 --> 00:28:55,692 Not just one orca! 409 00:28:58,403 --> 00:29:00,572 Is it just me, Kina, or are the circles that they're making 410 00:29:00,655 --> 00:29:02,949 getting smaller and smaller? 411 00:29:04,075 --> 00:29:05,660 KINA: I think you're dead right, mate. 412 00:29:11,958 --> 00:29:13,626 INGRID: Is it behind us? 413 00:29:14,836 --> 00:29:16,546 Under the boat! 414 00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:18,381 Here he comes again, eh? 415 00:29:26,931 --> 00:29:29,392 NARRATOR: The half dozen white sharks swimming by 416 00:29:29,476 --> 00:29:32,687 are more than impressive. 417 00:29:32,771 --> 00:29:38,234 To an orca, they may represent the food value of 1,000 rays. 418 00:29:38,693 --> 00:29:41,237 KINA: There's another huge one. Here we go! 419 00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:47,243 If that other one that we saw earlier was 4.2 meters, 420 00:29:47,327 --> 00:29:50,205 I would say that she would have to be 421 00:29:50,288 --> 00:29:55,960 well over four and a half meters. Probably close to 15 or 16 feet. 422 00:29:56,795 --> 00:29:59,631 NARRATOR: At 16 feet, this one great white shark alone 423 00:29:59,714 --> 00:30:03,885 is the equivalent of 200 rays to a hungry orca. 424 00:30:03,968 --> 00:30:06,346 It might be a motive for predation. 425 00:30:06,846 --> 00:30:10,433 INGRID: Compared to the size of a ray liver, which is just a few pounds, 426 00:30:10,517 --> 00:30:14,437 a couple of kilos at most, to the size of a liver of these guys, 427 00:30:14,521 --> 00:30:17,315 it's no wonder the orca would want to target them. 428 00:30:19,442 --> 00:30:20,568 KINA (off-screen): It's hard not to think, 429 00:30:20,652 --> 00:30:22,362 an animal as intelligent as the orca, 430 00:30:22,445 --> 00:30:25,114 that they're coming through here at the perfect time 431 00:30:25,198 --> 00:30:26,950 of year, when the livers are fat, 432 00:30:27,033 --> 00:30:29,536 they've gotta see this as a food source. 433 00:30:29,619 --> 00:30:31,079 And even though it's high risk, 434 00:30:31,162 --> 00:30:33,706 we've seen in South Africa that they can decide 435 00:30:33,790 --> 00:30:34,874 it's worth it. 436 00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:36,125 There's such a food source there. 437 00:30:36,209 --> 00:30:37,669 INGRID: Oh, absolutely. 438 00:30:37,752 --> 00:30:39,587 KINA: You've gotta wonder whether they're not already 439 00:30:39,671 --> 00:30:40,922 onto this. 440 00:30:41,005 --> 00:30:42,632 It may have been going on for a long time in New Zealand but 441 00:30:42,715 --> 00:30:43,758 we've just never heard about it. 442 00:30:43,842 --> 00:30:44,884 INGRID: Just, yeah, exactly. 443 00:30:50,557 --> 00:30:53,560 NARRATOR: Ingrid and Kina have found many similarities 444 00:30:53,643 --> 00:30:57,063 between New Zealand and South Africa. 445 00:31:00,233 --> 00:31:04,737 In both places, the orca already have a taste 446 00:31:04,821 --> 00:31:07,198 for sevengill sharks. 447 00:31:10,034 --> 00:31:14,455 But after the orca killed five great whites in South Africa, 448 00:31:14,539 --> 00:31:17,959 all the other white sharks disappeared. 449 00:31:18,835 --> 00:31:22,130 In New Zealand, all of these sharks 450 00:31:22,213 --> 00:31:26,009 are still here and hunting. 451 00:31:34,601 --> 00:31:37,770 Then, like a bolt from the blue, 452 00:31:37,854 --> 00:31:42,191 Kina and Ingrid finally see what they've been looking for. 453 00:31:42,275 --> 00:31:43,318 INGRID: Wow! 454 00:31:44,527 --> 00:31:46,404 That didn't look like shark bites. 455 00:31:47,572 --> 00:31:48,907 KINA: That really is phenomenal! 456 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:59,334 NARRATOR: Kina and Ingrid are observing local white shark behavior, 457 00:31:59,417 --> 00:32:03,630 when a male with a wound catches their eye. 458 00:32:06,925 --> 00:32:08,426 KINA: Wow! 459 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,138 One has got big, white rake marks on his dorsal. 460 00:32:13,514 --> 00:32:16,100 INGRID: They didn't look like shark bites. 461 00:32:17,435 --> 00:32:19,562 Should have a look and see if it's orca bite marks! 462 00:32:21,189 --> 00:32:22,482 KINA: You're right! That's interesting. 463 00:32:22,982 --> 00:32:25,526 I'll try to get some close shots of it, so we can have a look 464 00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:28,029 later on, see if we can figure out what they are. 465 00:32:28,821 --> 00:32:30,239 INGRID: It's coming up on your left, right there, Kina. 466 00:32:31,616 --> 00:32:32,867 The one with the rake marks. 467 00:32:37,288 --> 00:32:40,541 That's the guy we want. We just want him to come in a bit closer, eh? 468 00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:49,759 NARRATOR: An unusual mark on a white shark's dorsal fin 469 00:32:49,842 --> 00:32:52,303 looks like a bite. 470 00:32:53,888 --> 00:32:56,975 INGRID: He's just swum towards the bow. 471 00:32:57,475 --> 00:33:00,937 He's just coming down the port side of the boat at the moment. 472 00:33:04,649 --> 00:33:06,150 Coming in close now. 473 00:33:13,282 --> 00:33:14,283 Wow! 474 00:33:14,409 --> 00:33:17,078 Those rake marks look really distinctive. 475 00:33:26,004 --> 00:33:27,588 KINA: What were those rake marks on the fin? 476 00:33:27,672 --> 00:33:28,715 That was fascinating. 477 00:33:28,798 --> 00:33:29,882 INGRID: Yeah. 478 00:33:29,966 --> 00:33:32,260 KINA: They were quite wide apart and very straight, 479 00:33:32,343 --> 00:33:33,386 which was interesting. 480 00:33:33,469 --> 00:33:34,470 INGRID (off-screen): Yes. 481 00:33:34,554 --> 00:33:36,472 KINA (off-screen): And those were uniform. That was something new to me. 482 00:33:36,556 --> 00:33:37,765 INGRID: Yeah. 483 00:33:37,849 --> 00:33:39,434 And it looks very similar to what I see in the stingrays 484 00:33:39,517 --> 00:33:41,477 when the orca have been biting them. 485 00:33:41,561 --> 00:33:44,147 You know, you get these sort of like someone's raked the garden, 486 00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:45,815 but it's teeth rake marks, 487 00:33:45,898 --> 00:33:47,984 and that's what it looked like to me. 488 00:33:52,572 --> 00:33:54,657 Yeah, so let me show you these. 489 00:33:54,741 --> 00:33:59,996 This is a picture of an orca's teeth. 490 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:01,748 See how the teeth curve backwards? 491 00:34:01,831 --> 00:34:04,792 And so here, this is a close up of these teeth marks, 492 00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:08,296 and this is what I think we saw on that great white shark. 493 00:34:08,379 --> 00:34:09,756 KINA (off-screen): Yeah, amazing. 494 00:34:12,383 --> 00:34:14,260 INGRID: And when you look at the scale on here. 495 00:34:14,343 --> 00:34:15,678 KINA: Same thing, that was what we saw on that shark! 496 00:34:15,762 --> 00:34:17,055 INGRID: Matched with what we saw. Yeah. 497 00:34:17,138 --> 00:34:19,932 So if I had to put money on it, I would say it was orca. 498 00:34:20,016 --> 00:34:21,642 KINA (off-screen): Well, I certainly can't think of anything else, 499 00:34:21,726 --> 00:34:22,852 and that is pretty phenomenal. 500 00:34:22,935 --> 00:34:24,395 INGRID (off-screen): Sure. 501 00:34:24,479 --> 00:34:26,147 KINA (off-screen): This could well be the evidence we're looking for. 502 00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:28,941 NARRATOR: The bite marks could be a breakthrough. 503 00:34:29,025 --> 00:34:32,111 The first visible sign of orca-on-white shark predation 504 00:34:32,195 --> 00:34:33,863 they've seen. 505 00:34:38,701 --> 00:34:42,497 Ingrid and Kina devise an experiment that will use sound 506 00:34:42,580 --> 00:34:44,373 instead of sight. 507 00:34:44,457 --> 00:34:46,542 INGRID: Orca use a range of different sounds. 508 00:34:46,626 --> 00:34:49,337 They use clicks for echolocation, 509 00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:52,006 they use whistles and pulsed calls when 510 00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:53,925 they're communicating. 511 00:34:54,008 --> 00:34:55,885 It's really impressive. 512 00:34:56,803 --> 00:34:59,305 NARRATOR: So they'll use recorded whale sounds and 513 00:34:59,388 --> 00:35:01,682 observe how the sharks react. 514 00:35:04,185 --> 00:35:07,271 KINA (off-screen): It's a little known fact about great white sharks that 515 00:35:07,355 --> 00:35:09,857 they actually have amazing hearing. 516 00:35:10,942 --> 00:35:14,946 So I think if the great white sharks react to orca sounds, 517 00:35:15,029 --> 00:35:17,782 that might mean that they've met them before. 518 00:35:17,865 --> 00:35:21,369 How they react could possibly even tell us, 519 00:35:21,452 --> 00:35:25,081 whether that experience was hunting, or otherwise. 520 00:35:25,164 --> 00:35:29,127 So this experiment is going to be very interesting. 521 00:35:31,337 --> 00:35:33,047 NARRATOR: They mount an underwater speaker 522 00:35:33,131 --> 00:35:34,882 on the dive cage. 523 00:35:34,966 --> 00:35:38,928 The plan, play sounds from several other kinds of whales first. 524 00:35:39,011 --> 00:35:40,221 INGRID: Here you go. 525 00:35:40,304 --> 00:35:41,556 NARRATOR: To try and draw the sharks in. 526 00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:42,932 INGRID (off-screen): Oh, that's perfect. 527 00:35:43,015 --> 00:35:44,934 NARRATOR: Once white sharks are around the cage, 528 00:35:45,017 --> 00:35:49,272 Ingrid will play the sounds of New Zealand orcas hunting. 529 00:35:49,355 --> 00:35:50,606 KINA: Done. 530 00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:54,402 It will be interesting to see if they are actually scared of 531 00:35:54,485 --> 00:35:57,071 orca or if they, you know, if they know what it's like 532 00:35:57,155 --> 00:35:58,156 to be scared of something! 533 00:36:03,578 --> 00:36:06,289 ♪ ♪ 534 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,506 INGRID: Do you copy me, Kina? 535 00:36:16,090 --> 00:36:19,010 KINA: Roger, Ingrid, loud and clear. 536 00:36:19,677 --> 00:36:20,970 I guess we're good to go! 537 00:36:22,889 --> 00:36:24,348 INGRID: Well, look I'm gonna start playing the first set 538 00:36:24,432 --> 00:36:25,516 of sounds now. 539 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,311 This is the humpback whale calls that you recorded. 540 00:36:28,895 --> 00:36:30,688 KINA: Roger that. Go right ahead. 541 00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:37,528 (humpback whale singing over PA) 542 00:36:37,612 --> 00:36:41,866 NARRATOR: This is humpback whale song, 543 00:36:41,949 --> 00:36:46,621 and possibly a great white dinner bell. 544 00:36:48,372 --> 00:36:51,000 White sharks are known to hunt whale calves 545 00:36:51,083 --> 00:36:53,044 in the tropical pacific. 546 00:36:55,463 --> 00:36:58,841 KINA: Well, that certainly got a couple of people interested! 547 00:36:59,759 --> 00:37:02,595 (humpback whale singing over PA) 548 00:37:10,144 --> 00:37:14,065 Oh, yep, all of a sudden we've got three sharks right on top of us. 549 00:37:17,902 --> 00:37:21,072 NARRATOR: The circling great whites begin to rush the 550 00:37:21,155 --> 00:37:22,865 speaker and the cage. 551 00:37:26,410 --> 00:37:27,703 KINA: The sharks are just 552 00:37:27,787 --> 00:37:32,250 all over the cage, and all over the side that the speaker's on. 553 00:37:32,333 --> 00:37:36,671 It's hard not to think that they're reacting to that sound, to be honest. 554 00:37:41,467 --> 00:37:45,721 ♪ ♪ 555 00:37:53,145 --> 00:37:55,022 (humpback whale singing over PA) 556 00:37:57,775 --> 00:37:58,818 Wow! 557 00:37:59,277 --> 00:38:02,530 Ingrid, we've just got that, uh, 558 00:38:02,613 --> 00:38:08,661 shark with the two big rake marks on its dorsal fin back again! 559 00:38:10,496 --> 00:38:11,914 Look at that! 560 00:38:17,086 --> 00:38:21,632 ♪ ♪ 561 00:38:24,051 --> 00:38:26,470 NARRATOR: The sharks are clearly responding to the 562 00:38:26,554 --> 00:38:28,389 humpback whale sounds. 563 00:38:28,472 --> 00:38:32,435 The question is, how will they react to the sound 564 00:38:32,518 --> 00:38:35,313 of New Zealand killer whales? 565 00:38:41,819 --> 00:38:44,238 NARRATOR: Ingrid Visser and Kina Scollay want to see how 566 00:38:44,322 --> 00:38:48,242 great whites react to the sounds of hunting orca. 567 00:38:50,036 --> 00:38:53,831 First, as a test, they play humpback whale song. 568 00:38:56,417 --> 00:38:59,170 The sharks come straight to the sound. 569 00:39:03,716 --> 00:39:04,800 KINA: Whoa! 570 00:39:05,634 --> 00:39:07,803 NARRATOR: Including the shark with the bite marks 571 00:39:07,887 --> 00:39:09,388 on its dorsal fin. 572 00:39:13,851 --> 00:39:16,687 They have to wait a few minutes for the sharks to 573 00:39:16,771 --> 00:39:20,024 settle down after the humpback reaction. 574 00:39:23,194 --> 00:39:24,653 INGRID: Now I'm just gonna play you the sounds from the 575 00:39:24,737 --> 00:39:27,990 orca that eat the salmon, I recorded these guys off 576 00:39:28,074 --> 00:39:29,158 North America. 577 00:39:29,241 --> 00:39:30,242 Standby. 578 00:39:40,544 --> 00:39:42,004 (orca calls over PA) 579 00:39:42,088 --> 00:39:43,297 INGRID (over radio): Can you hear that? 580 00:39:43,756 --> 00:39:45,216 KINA: Loud and clear. 581 00:39:52,264 --> 00:39:55,684 Ingrid, it's really interesting. I- 582 00:39:55,768 --> 00:39:58,521 To be honest, I can't see much difference 583 00:39:58,604 --> 00:40:01,816 in the shark behavior here at all, over. 584 00:40:08,656 --> 00:40:10,783 Not much has changed down here. 585 00:40:14,078 --> 00:40:16,414 INGRID (off-screen): Yeah, well, I guess that doesn't really surprise me 586 00:40:16,497 --> 00:40:18,541 given that these are the fish-eating orca. 587 00:40:18,624 --> 00:40:23,796 NARRATOR: The sharks appear unresponsive to the North American orca calls 588 00:40:23,879 --> 00:40:26,257 but these sounds have never been heard 589 00:40:26,340 --> 00:40:28,217 before in New Zealand. 590 00:40:29,135 --> 00:40:32,179 INGRID: Yeah, Kina, so now I'm gonna play you the New Zealand orca. 591 00:40:33,264 --> 00:40:35,516 These are probably the ones that the great whites have 592 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:36,892 heard before. 593 00:40:37,643 --> 00:40:38,894 INGRID (off-screen): Stand by. 594 00:40:42,273 --> 00:40:46,110 (orca calls over PA) 595 00:40:51,115 --> 00:40:53,409 (orca calls over PA) 596 00:40:57,663 --> 00:41:01,125 KINA: Just skirted off towards the side of the boat there. 597 00:41:04,962 --> 00:41:07,047 I can't say for sure, but 598 00:41:07,131 --> 00:41:08,799 right now, I can't see 599 00:41:08,883 --> 00:41:10,134 any sharks at all. 600 00:41:11,969 --> 00:41:14,138 NARRATOR: The sharks response was clearly to 601 00:41:14,221 --> 00:41:16,557 move away from the sound. 602 00:41:23,814 --> 00:41:25,691 KINA: That's a huge female! 603 00:41:28,527 --> 00:41:30,863 But she's just not approaching the cage. 604 00:41:33,491 --> 00:41:37,203 Way out across the bottom, I keep seeing these shapes. 605 00:41:37,286 --> 00:41:39,413 Big sharks cruising past. 606 00:41:41,874 --> 00:41:44,835 The sharks are there, but they just don't seem to be interested 607 00:41:44,919 --> 00:41:46,462 in coming anywhere near us. 608 00:41:48,714 --> 00:41:51,342 NARRATOR: Ingrid and Kina observe that the sharks keep 609 00:41:51,425 --> 00:41:54,220 the source of the orca sounds in sight. 610 00:41:55,054 --> 00:41:57,681 But stay well out of the way. 611 00:42:00,684 --> 00:42:03,812 KINA: It is hard to know what's going on, but, um. 612 00:42:05,105 --> 00:42:06,774 Yeah, interesting. 613 00:42:16,283 --> 00:42:18,035 INGRID (off-screen): How was that, mate? 614 00:42:18,118 --> 00:42:21,121 KINA: Yeah, well, another awesome dive down here but interesting. 615 00:42:21,205 --> 00:42:23,916 We've only really had a glimpse, eh? 616 00:42:23,999 --> 00:42:26,961 NARRATOR: The orca sounds changed the behavior of 617 00:42:27,044 --> 00:42:28,546 the white sharks. 618 00:42:28,629 --> 00:42:31,674 From fearlessly coming into the sounds of the humpbacks, 619 00:42:31,757 --> 00:42:35,970 to moving off and keeping their distance when they heard 620 00:42:36,053 --> 00:42:38,389 hunting orca. 621 00:42:40,641 --> 00:42:43,978 But was this a typical animal reaction to danger? 622 00:42:44,061 --> 00:42:46,855 INGRID: You know, when you think about the bite marks 623 00:42:46,939 --> 00:42:48,649 that we saw that could've been the orca, 624 00:42:48,732 --> 00:42:52,361 and you saw the way that the great white sharks, you know, 625 00:42:52,444 --> 00:42:54,780 there was a bit of a reaction there but not full on. 626 00:42:54,863 --> 00:42:58,367 KINA: Obviously, we'd have to do this a lot of times to be able to say for sure. 627 00:42:58,450 --> 00:42:59,660 INGRID: Yeah. 628 00:42:59,743 --> 00:43:02,830 KINA: But maybe actually the sharks aren't so scared of orca. 629 00:43:02,913 --> 00:43:05,040 INGRID: Well, maybe New Zealand sharks are more 630 00:43:05,124 --> 00:43:07,376 exposed to it like even from when they are little sharks, 631 00:43:07,459 --> 00:43:10,713 and so they just become habituated to it. 632 00:43:10,796 --> 00:43:16,010 NARRATOR: When orca killed five white sharks in South Africa in 2017, 633 00:43:16,093 --> 00:43:18,137 many scientists believed it was a 634 00:43:18,220 --> 00:43:20,014 first for the region. 635 00:43:20,097 --> 00:43:23,559 But is it possible that white sharks have been fending off 636 00:43:23,642 --> 00:43:26,437 orca attacks for thousands of years? 637 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,733 And what we see are only the most recent incidents in an 638 00:43:30,816 --> 00:43:33,611 ancient and on-going battle? 639 00:43:34,445 --> 00:43:36,864 INGRID: I guess the big thing for me is, you know, 640 00:43:36,947 --> 00:43:39,033 how far are these orca going? 641 00:43:39,116 --> 00:43:41,869 We've got some evidence that suggests that they are at 642 00:43:41,952 --> 00:43:44,997 least trying to have a nibble on them, but, uh, 643 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,667 you know I'm, I'm curious to know just how far they've taken it. 644 00:43:50,836 --> 00:43:53,839 NARRATOR: So far, there have been no reported serial shark 645 00:43:53,922 --> 00:43:56,008 attacks in New Zealand. 646 00:43:57,176 --> 00:43:59,762 But here on the far side of the world, 647 00:43:59,845 --> 00:44:04,725 the unseen struggle between orca and white shark goes on, 648 00:44:05,059 --> 00:44:07,728 in secret, for now. 649 00:44:07,811 --> 00:44:09,813 Captioned by Cotter Media Group.