WEBVTT FILE 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:04.045 --> 00:00:08.717 NARRATOR: Two apex predators dominate the ocean, 3 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:13.638 the great white shark, a lone hunter. 5 00:00:14.556 --> 00:00:18.393 And the orca, known as the killer whale. 6 00:00:24.774 --> 00:00:29.487 Both sit atop the oceanic food chain so when orca begin to 7 00:00:29.571 --> 00:00:32.907 hunt great white sharks in South Africa, 8 00:00:32.991 --> 00:00:36.202 it's big news. 9 00:00:37.078 --> 00:00:40.373 Experts want to know will it happen again, 10 00:00:40.457 --> 00:00:43.418 and if so where? 11 00:00:45.587 --> 00:00:48.715 (theme music plays) 12 00:00:56.097 --> 00:00:58.099 It's happened before, 13 00:00:58.183 --> 00:01:02.854 orca have hunted and killed great white sharks. 14 00:01:02.937 --> 00:01:05.065 One of the first reported cases off the coast of 15 00:01:05.148 --> 00:01:08.234 California in 1997. 16 00:01:08.318 --> 00:01:12.238 And again in 2017 off South Africa. 17 00:01:12.322 --> 00:01:15.450 Five dead white sharks washed ashore. 18 00:01:15.533 --> 00:01:19.913 Shark scientists wondered why orca would hunt dangerous prey 19 00:01:19.996 --> 00:01:21.664 like a white shark. 20 00:01:21.748 --> 00:01:24.459 With attacks happening in oceans around the world, 21 00:01:24.542 --> 00:01:28.088 experts are looking for similarities and patterns, 22 00:01:28.171 --> 00:01:32.050 and what the effect would be on the marine ecosystem. 23 00:01:33.802 --> 00:01:36.763 Particularly in New Zealand. 24 00:01:36.846 --> 00:01:41.226 KINA: When the orca started to kill the great white sharks in South Africa, 25 00:01:41.309 --> 00:01:43.436 the rest of the sharks actually disappeared 26 00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:45.939 and haven't come back for years. 27 00:01:46.022 --> 00:01:48.399 If that happened in New Zealand, 28 00:01:48.483 --> 00:01:51.528 not only would we lose this population of great whites 29 00:01:51.611 --> 00:01:54.781 that we've learned so much about but it would also be 30 00:01:54.864 --> 00:01:57.492 disastrous for this ecosystem to lose 31 00:01:57.575 --> 00:01:59.911 an apex predator like that. 32 00:02:01.329 --> 00:02:04.124 NARRATOR: There are several theories about exactly why 33 00:02:04.207 --> 00:02:05.917 the sharks vanished. 34 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.586 But the coincidence of the orca attacks 35 00:02:08.670 --> 00:02:12.590 and the disappearance of the sharks is hard to ignore. 36 00:02:12.674 --> 00:02:15.218 And there's a lot at stake, 37 00:02:15.301 --> 00:02:19.013 including the health of the marine ecosystem. 38 00:02:21.015 --> 00:02:24.394 New Zealand has a local orca population 39 00:02:24.477 --> 00:02:27.230 of between 150 and 200. 40 00:02:28.314 --> 00:02:30.525 While the white shark aggregation is one of the 41 00:02:30.608 --> 00:02:32.819 largest in the world. 42 00:02:33.570 --> 00:02:37.365 Estimated to be over 5,000. 43 00:02:38.741 --> 00:02:42.453 If the orca begin to go after white sharks here, 44 00:02:42.537 --> 00:02:45.498 they have plenty to choose from. 45 00:02:49.210 --> 00:02:52.672 New Zealanders Kina Scollay and Dr. Ingrid Visser 46 00:02:52.755 --> 00:02:54.883 are investigating. 47 00:02:54.966 --> 00:02:58.678 Orca could be hunting great white sharks already. 48 00:02:58.761 --> 00:03:00.722 But no white sharks have washed up 49 00:03:00.805 --> 00:03:03.183 on New Zealand beaches. 50 00:03:05.310 --> 00:03:09.731 So, they're searching for other signs of orca predation. 51 00:03:11.441 --> 00:03:15.820 Any strange behavior, wounds from an encounter, 52 00:03:15.904 --> 00:03:20.742 anything that points to orca hunting white sharks. 53 00:03:21.201 --> 00:03:22.744 INGRID: I'm coming down the port side. 54 00:03:23.953 --> 00:03:25.330 KINA: Roger. 55 00:03:27.582 --> 00:03:30.335 It really is interesting, Ingrid. What do you think? 56 00:03:33.254 --> 00:03:35.757 NARRATOR: Local great whites are in New Zealand waters from 57 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.052 December to June, when many will leave on their 58 00:03:39.135 --> 00:03:42.972 annual 2,000 mile migration, to the coast of Australia, 59 00:03:43.056 --> 00:03:45.642 and the Tropical Pacific. 60 00:03:46.809 --> 00:03:51.689 Local orca, on the other hand, remain in New Zealand waters all year round, 61 00:03:51.773 --> 00:03:54.984 roaming the coastline in search of prey. 62 00:03:57.153 --> 00:04:00.531 Ingrid is New Zealand's top orca specialist. 63 00:04:00.615 --> 00:04:04.827 But today is her first dive with great white sharks. 64 00:04:05.245 --> 00:04:08.039 KINA: I'm pretty psyched to get you in a cage with, uh, 65 00:04:08.581 --> 00:04:12.335 my favorite population of great white sharks in the world. 66 00:04:13.670 --> 00:04:16.923 INGRID: I have to admit, I'm pretty pumped about it myself, that's for sure! 67 00:04:19.300 --> 00:04:20.301 Wow! 68 00:04:22.011 --> 00:04:23.596 KINA: What do you think? 69 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.975 INGRID: It's pretty amazing, Kina, to see New Zealand sharks this close. 70 00:04:32.397 --> 00:04:35.566 I really expected to be quite scared, but 71 00:04:35.650 --> 00:04:39.153 in the safety of the cage here, it's quite impressive to just watch them 72 00:04:39.779 --> 00:04:41.906 doing their great white shark thing, right? 73 00:04:50.790 --> 00:04:51.666 Wow! 74 00:04:52.333 --> 00:04:53.835 He snuck up on us! 75 00:04:56.671 --> 00:04:58.756 KINA: That's their specialty! 76 00:05:01.175 --> 00:05:04.929 NARRATOR: Great white sharks in this area are curious and aggressive, 77 00:05:05.013 --> 00:05:07.682 which makes them dangerous. 78 00:05:09.517 --> 00:05:12.270 Orca and white sharks have shared the top of the ocean 79 00:05:12.353 --> 00:05:15.273 food chain for millions of years. 80 00:05:15.356 --> 00:05:19.277 So why would orca attack great whites like these now? 81 00:05:20.028 --> 00:05:22.238 INGRID: Even though orca are the largest of the 82 00:05:22.322 --> 00:05:24.782 dolphin family and they can be friendly, 83 00:05:24.866 --> 00:05:26.784 we still have to consider that they are one of the top 84 00:05:26.868 --> 00:05:28.870 predators of the ocean. 85 00:05:31.080 --> 00:05:33.958 NARRATOR: Ingrid's research tracks the 200 or so orca 86 00:05:34.042 --> 00:05:36.794 living in New Zealand's waters. 87 00:05:36.878 --> 00:05:39.047 INGRID: Yeah, I know, big guy! Hang in there. 88 00:05:39.130 --> 00:05:41.883 The exciting thing about this adventure for me is that we've 89 00:05:41.966 --> 00:05:45.011 got two top predators, and we don't really know 90 00:05:45.094 --> 00:05:46.512 what's happening between them. 91 00:05:53.019 --> 00:05:55.313 NARRATOR: Orca and white sharks are the top 92 00:05:55.396 --> 00:05:57.482 two ocean predators. 93 00:05:57.565 --> 00:06:00.610 Yet they're fundamentally different. 94 00:06:02.403 --> 00:06:05.573 Orca are air-breathing mammals. 95 00:06:07.200 --> 00:06:10.620 White sharks are water-breathing fish. 96 00:06:11.204 --> 00:06:13.498 Orcas live in pods of up to 40, 97 00:06:13.581 --> 00:06:17.460 made up of individual family units that remain together 98 00:06:17.543 --> 00:06:20.671 for life and hunt cooperatively. 99 00:06:21.923 --> 00:06:25.510 Some new research suggests white sharks may occasionally 100 00:06:25.593 --> 00:06:27.595 hunt in groups. 101 00:06:28.638 --> 00:06:31.099 But they tend to hunt alone. 102 00:06:33.851 --> 00:06:38.898 The largest great white ever recorded measured over 20 feet 103 00:06:38.981 --> 00:06:42.360 and weighed 5,000 pounds. 104 00:06:42.443 --> 00:06:44.862 Small for an orca. 105 00:06:44.946 --> 00:06:47.573 Killer whales can grow to 30 feet or more. 106 00:06:47.657 --> 00:06:51.911 And weigh as much as 20,000 pounds. 107 00:06:55.164 --> 00:06:56.707 But as different as they are, 108 00:06:56.791 --> 00:06:59.877 orca and great whites are both sophisticated, 109 00:06:59.961 --> 00:07:04.382 tough, and hungry predators. 110 00:07:07.009 --> 00:07:09.178 KINA: Whoa, this is a big animal. 111 00:07:10.304 --> 00:07:13.891 NARRATOR: Kina and Ingrid dive again and again. 112 00:07:13.975 --> 00:07:16.310 Searching for evidence. 113 00:07:24.652 --> 00:07:27.238 KINA: Well, that was a pretty amazing interaction, Ingrid! 114 00:07:27.321 --> 00:07:30.992 Those two sharks actually physically bumped into each other! 115 00:07:31.993 --> 00:07:34.745 Nobody wanted to back down, and they were leaning 116 00:07:34.829 --> 00:07:39.000 pectoral fin onto pectoral fin. That's quite a sight! 117 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:44.255 INGRID: I think this was more of a, you know, "get out of my territory" interaction. 118 00:07:44.338 --> 00:07:48.134 I don't doubt that if the orca were going to take on one of these great white sharks, 119 00:07:48.217 --> 00:07:51.429 they would be thinking very carefully about it before they did. 120 00:07:53.181 --> 00:07:55.308 There wouldn't be a mistake, and it wouldn't be something 121 00:07:55.391 --> 00:07:57.393 that they would take on lightly. 122 00:08:03.357 --> 00:08:06.819 Yeah, there seems to be a very strong hierarchy going on here. 123 00:08:08.529 --> 00:08:12.867 When you see that with orca, it's usually a nice social interaction. 124 00:08:15.786 --> 00:08:19.624 It really is an impressive, predator on predator interaction, that's for sure. 125 00:08:30.051 --> 00:08:32.136 NARRATOR: In 2017, 126 00:08:32.220 --> 00:08:35.306 a predator-on-predator interaction of another kind 127 00:08:35.389 --> 00:08:39.352 took place along the coast of South Africa. 128 00:08:39.435 --> 00:08:44.315 Five dead great white sharks washed up on local beaches. 129 00:08:45.274 --> 00:08:47.527 The news is shocking. 130 00:08:47.610 --> 00:08:50.613 Scientists conducted an investigation. 131 00:08:50.696 --> 00:08:54.659 Of all the evidence collected, it was the bite marks on the 132 00:08:54.742 --> 00:08:57.995 shark bodies that revealed the killers. 133 00:08:58.079 --> 00:09:01.249 The teeth marks belonged to orca. 134 00:09:05.670 --> 00:09:09.173 Stranger still, the killer whales had taken only 135 00:09:09.257 --> 00:09:14.428 the shark livers and left the rest of the bodies untouched. 136 00:09:14.512 --> 00:09:18.182 This was the first recorded case of orcas killing 137 00:09:18.266 --> 00:09:20.851 white sharks in South Africa. 138 00:09:20.935 --> 00:09:23.729 Shark and orca scientists wondered when and where it 139 00:09:23.813 --> 00:09:26.232 might happen again. 140 00:09:26.315 --> 00:09:29.026 INGRID: We can't rule out that the orca here in New Zealand 141 00:09:29.110 --> 00:09:31.862 could hunt great white sharks in exactly the same way. 142 00:09:38.953 --> 00:09:42.123 NARRATOR: The Foveaux Strait sits at the southern end 143 00:09:42.206 --> 00:09:43.916 of New Zealand. 144 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.546 Over 6,000 miles to the east of South Africa. 145 00:09:50.131 --> 00:09:53.718 Both regions have large populations of great whites 146 00:09:53.801 --> 00:09:56.887 and roaming pods of orca. 147 00:09:56.971 --> 00:10:00.224 A combination that resulted in a fatal confrontation 148 00:10:00.308 --> 00:10:02.101 in South Africa. 149 00:10:02.184 --> 00:10:06.230 And if white sharks and orca ever cross paths in New Zealand, 150 00:10:06.314 --> 00:10:08.899 this is where it could happen, 151 00:10:08.983 --> 00:10:10.985 in the Foveaux Strait. 152 00:10:14.322 --> 00:10:18.284 ♪ ♪ 153 00:10:23.831 --> 00:10:25.583 KINA: We've got a couple of good players here. 154 00:10:25.666 --> 00:10:28.711 There's two sharks that are pretty boisterous. 155 00:10:37.762 --> 00:10:39.263 It's pretty cool! 156 00:10:40.014 --> 00:10:41.891 NARRATOR: Large, boisterous, 157 00:10:41.974 --> 00:10:45.269 and aggressive great white sharks. 158 00:10:47.021 --> 00:10:49.649 What possible motive could an orca have for attacking 159 00:10:49.732 --> 00:10:51.734 a great white? 160 00:10:51.817 --> 00:10:54.779 There isn't a clear answer. 161 00:10:54.862 --> 00:10:58.074 But to Ingrid, it makes some sense. 162 00:10:59.492 --> 00:11:01.243 INGRID (off-screen): Typically, in New Zealand, 163 00:11:01.327 --> 00:11:03.537 the orcas are not just targeting prey to take 164 00:11:03.621 --> 00:11:05.081 the whole thing. 165 00:11:05.164 --> 00:11:08.250 They're focused on particular parts of them 166 00:11:08.334 --> 00:11:09.877 and that's the liver! 167 00:11:11.337 --> 00:11:14.882 NARRATOR: When the South African orcas killed the great whites, 168 00:11:14.965 --> 00:11:17.927 this is what they did. 169 00:11:18.010 --> 00:11:21.806 Hunting for liver with great precision. 170 00:11:28.521 --> 00:11:31.524 Liver is a prize for any predator. 171 00:11:31.607 --> 00:11:37.029 To hunt, mate, and migrate thousands of miles, 172 00:11:37.113 --> 00:11:39.699 takes energy. 173 00:11:42.535 --> 00:11:45.454 Liver is pure fuel. 174 00:11:45.538 --> 00:11:49.291 So when they hunt, they're filling the tank. 175 00:11:54.463 --> 00:11:58.634 New Zealand orca feed on the 25 species of rays and 176 00:11:58.718 --> 00:12:02.096 skates that swim in local waters. 177 00:12:02.179 --> 00:12:06.559 The preference for rays is unique to orca in New Zealand. 178 00:12:08.102 --> 00:12:11.605 But recently local orca have acquired 179 00:12:11.689 --> 00:12:14.650 a taste for shark liver. 180 00:12:14.734 --> 00:12:19.238 From a smaller cousin of the great white, the sevengill. 181 00:12:25.244 --> 00:12:28.664 And evidence suggests South African orca 182 00:12:28.748 --> 00:12:32.001 started on sevengill sharks 183 00:12:34.420 --> 00:12:39.049 and graduated to great whites. 184 00:12:46.056 --> 00:12:48.642 NARRATOR: Ingrid Visser and Kina Scollay are looking for 185 00:12:48.726 --> 00:12:52.104 evidence that orca are hunting great white sharks 186 00:12:52.188 --> 00:12:54.690 in New Zealand waters. 187 00:12:54.774 --> 00:12:57.943 Ingrid has evidence that there's a disturbing pattern 188 00:12:58.027 --> 00:13:00.696 in orca hunting. 189 00:13:00.780 --> 00:13:04.074 New Zealand orca are hunting sevengill sharks, 190 00:13:04.158 --> 00:13:08.454 just like the South African orca. 191 00:13:09.789 --> 00:13:13.918 Sevengill sharks grow to nine feet long and 200 pounds. 192 00:13:14.001 --> 00:13:18.631 A much larger meal for an orca than a small ray. 193 00:13:18.714 --> 00:13:22.802 But the sevengill shark is no easy prey. 194 00:13:23.969 --> 00:13:26.472 INGRID: Sevengills are relatively new on the orca menu, 195 00:13:26.555 --> 00:13:28.974 but I've seen it a few times now. 196 00:13:29.058 --> 00:13:31.477 INGRID (off-screen): You see the orca, and they're very, 197 00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:33.229 very precise in how they do it. 198 00:13:33.312 --> 00:13:36.273 I've got footage of the orca with the sevengills where 199 00:13:36.357 --> 00:13:37.733 they've ripped the pectoral fin, 200 00:13:37.817 --> 00:13:39.026 right under the pectoral girdle there. 201 00:13:39.109 --> 00:13:40.152 KINA (off-screen): Right. 202 00:13:40.236 --> 00:13:41.779 INGRID: And they've extracted the liver. 203 00:13:42.988 --> 00:13:45.407 WOMAN (off-screen): Wee! Oh, there's a shark. 204 00:13:45.491 --> 00:13:47.076 WOMAN (off-screen): Oh, shark. Shark. 205 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.037 INGRID (off-screen): One of the things I find fascinating is how the 206 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.414 sevengills will actually turn and defend themselves 207 00:13:52.498 --> 00:13:54.375 against the orca. 208 00:13:59.004 --> 00:14:00.422 The way the orca hunt the sevengills 209 00:14:00.506 --> 00:14:02.258 is pretty impressive. 210 00:14:02.341 --> 00:14:05.594 First of all they'll come in and they'll karate chop the shark, 211 00:14:05.678 --> 00:14:07.263 so they'll just come and lift their tail up and 212 00:14:07.346 --> 00:14:09.223 whack them on the back. 213 00:14:14.854 --> 00:14:17.439 Then they grab the sharks by the pectoral fin and rip them 214 00:14:17.523 --> 00:14:19.275 open and pull the livers out. 215 00:14:21.193 --> 00:14:23.946 NARRATOR: Ingrid captured rare footage of orcas hunting 216 00:14:24.029 --> 00:14:26.782 sevengills in Northern New Zealand. 217 00:14:34.790 --> 00:14:39.879 ♪ ♪ 218 00:14:46.594 --> 00:14:51.140 Their precision in hunting for shark liver is clear. 219 00:14:59.064 --> 00:15:01.859 KINA (off-screen): What's really fascinating is that in South Africa, 220 00:15:01.942 --> 00:15:04.695 the orca started by hunting sevengills, 221 00:15:04.778 --> 00:15:08.699 and then they moved on to the great white sharks. 222 00:15:08.782 --> 00:15:11.493 So knowing what's gone on in South Africa, 223 00:15:11.577 --> 00:15:15.956 what concerns me is exactly the same thing could happen here. 224 00:15:18.751 --> 00:15:21.587 NARRATOR: A concentration of sevengill sharks lives up 225 00:15:21.670 --> 00:15:24.423 along the western coast of New Zealand. 226 00:15:25.382 --> 00:15:27.885 Kina has dived with them for years, 227 00:15:27.968 --> 00:15:31.055 knows just where they live, and how they behave. 228 00:15:31.138 --> 00:15:32.181 KINA (over radio): Beautiful. 229 00:15:33.974 --> 00:15:36.518 NARRATOR: They decide to drop in and see if the sevengills 230 00:15:36.602 --> 00:15:39.688 can give them any clues. 231 00:15:43.484 --> 00:15:45.945 Fiordland National Park is a vast, 232 00:15:46.028 --> 00:15:48.238 remote wilderness on the western shore 233 00:15:48.322 --> 00:15:50.866 of New Zealand's south island. 234 00:15:50.950 --> 00:15:55.412 Most areas are accessible only by helicopter or boat. 235 00:15:55.496 --> 00:15:56.705 KINA (over radio): You know really, 236 00:15:56.789 --> 00:15:58.248 you fly over these mountains and 237 00:15:58.332 --> 00:16:01.126 you're in a completely different world, 238 00:16:01.210 --> 00:16:02.544 and then under the water, 239 00:16:02.628 --> 00:16:03.963 it's completely different again. 240 00:16:04.046 --> 00:16:06.799 Different to just about anywhere else you'll dive. 241 00:16:06.882 --> 00:16:08.133 Amazing. 242 00:16:10.010 --> 00:16:11.720 NARRATOR: These deep fiords are murky, 243 00:16:11.804 --> 00:16:15.057 stained with tannins from the ancient forest. 244 00:16:15.140 --> 00:16:18.727 It makes the water dark, even in the middle of the day. 245 00:16:22.815 --> 00:16:25.359 If orcas came here to hunt sevengills, 246 00:16:25.442 --> 00:16:29.321 it's possible no one would ever know. 247 00:16:29.822 --> 00:16:32.658 KINA (over radio): I actually haven't been in here for about two years. 248 00:16:32.741 --> 00:16:34.076 INGRID (over radio): Wow. 249 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:36.078 KINA (over radio): And that's after diving here month in, 250 00:16:36.161 --> 00:16:39.415 month out for many years, and I really felt like 251 00:16:39.498 --> 00:16:41.667 I knew these sevengills so well. 252 00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:43.794 All this talk about orca eating them, 253 00:16:43.877 --> 00:16:46.422 I just kind of want to come and have a look. 254 00:16:46.505 --> 00:16:47.881 INGRID (over radio): Yeah. 255 00:16:47.965 --> 00:16:49.341 Absolutely Kina, and I mean look, 256 00:16:49.425 --> 00:16:51.760 that ties in with the sightings we've had recently 257 00:16:51.844 --> 00:16:53.804 of the orca coming down this bit of coastline, 258 00:16:53.887 --> 00:16:56.807 so I'd be fascinated to know if they're coming up here 259 00:16:56.890 --> 00:16:58.100 to your sevengills. 260 00:17:01.562 --> 00:17:04.565 NARRATOR: The only place for Kina and Ingrid to land is on 261 00:17:04.648 --> 00:17:08.068 a small fishing trawler, in the middle of nowhere. 262 00:17:13.866 --> 00:17:17.077 KINA (off-screen): My little secret spot is only just literally one 263 00:17:17.161 --> 00:17:18.746 minute's flying time from here, 264 00:17:18.829 --> 00:17:21.874 so I think it's easiest if I gear up here. 265 00:17:21.957 --> 00:17:23.250 INGRID (off-screen): Right. Yeah. 266 00:17:23.333 --> 00:17:24.793 KINA (off-screen): And then I'm gonna hop in the helicopter, 267 00:17:24.877 --> 00:17:27.087 just buzz around there and bomb in! 268 00:17:31.675 --> 00:17:35.429 ♪ ♪ 269 00:17:41.977 --> 00:17:44.480 NARRATOR: Diving without a cage, 270 00:17:44.563 --> 00:17:47.524 Kina will have to be careful of the sevengills 271 00:17:47.608 --> 00:17:50.194 and keep an eye out for orca. 272 00:17:50.986 --> 00:17:54.198 They could be anywhere. 273 00:17:58.952 --> 00:18:00.662 NARRATOR: Kina Scollay is paying a visit to an 274 00:18:00.746 --> 00:18:03.332 aggregation of sevengill sharks in 275 00:18:03.415 --> 00:18:06.418 Fiordland National Park, New Zealand. 276 00:18:11.590 --> 00:18:14.676 And knows just where to find them. 277 00:18:19.264 --> 00:18:22.976 He's looking for any signs that orca are hunting 278 00:18:23.060 --> 00:18:24.895 these sevengill sharks. 279 00:18:30.192 --> 00:18:34.530 ♪ ♪ 280 00:18:43.789 --> 00:18:48.168 KINA: The murky water really works well for these guys. 281 00:18:50.629 --> 00:18:53.215 You just can't see them coming. 282 00:19:01.306 --> 00:19:03.767 As they're approaching, you just see the 283 00:19:04.226 --> 00:19:06.937 white under their mouth. 284 00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:12.359 Looks like an evil kind of Joker grin. 285 00:19:13.152 --> 00:19:15.988 And then a shark materializes out of the murk. 286 00:19:19.825 --> 00:19:22.911 NARRATOR: The sevengills are here, 287 00:19:22.995 --> 00:19:26.498 drifting in and out of sight. 288 00:19:30.169 --> 00:19:33.213 Checking out the intruder. 289 00:19:35.048 --> 00:19:39.595 KINA: Scientists have found remains of really big animals inside them. 290 00:19:40.846 --> 00:19:44.224 Prey items as big, or bigger, than a human. 291 00:19:44.725 --> 00:19:49.855 And really, the only way they could do this is if they're pack hunting. 292 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.903 When you see one coming out of the murk, 293 00:19:56.403 --> 00:20:00.032 you almost know there'll be another one coming from one side, 294 00:20:02.201 --> 00:20:03.827 and if you look the other way, 295 00:20:03.911 --> 00:20:06.413 there'll be another one sneaking in there, too. 296 00:20:12.294 --> 00:20:13.420 KINA (over radio): Whoa! 297 00:20:14.213 --> 00:20:15.672 KINA: And they're relentless! 298 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.479 Well, it's good to see that these sevengills are here 299 00:20:30.562 --> 00:20:32.898 and up to their usual tricks. 300 00:20:36.777 --> 00:20:38.904 But to be honest, 301 00:20:41.365 --> 00:20:44.243 there's less than I expected to find on this dive. 302 00:20:46.245 --> 00:20:48.413 NARRATOR: Sevengills may be prey for orca, 303 00:20:48.497 --> 00:20:52.000 but these sharks are no pushovers. 304 00:20:52.626 --> 00:20:54.294 KINA: Oh, this one means business! 305 00:20:57.923 --> 00:21:01.468 But it's the ones that sneak up behind that I really have to worry about. 306 00:21:04.096 --> 00:21:05.347 Whoa, I like this guy! 307 00:21:07.307 --> 00:21:09.726 Yeah, these guys are revving up a bit much for me. 308 00:21:12.813 --> 00:21:16.483 I think it's time to get out before they take control of the situation. 309 00:21:24.783 --> 00:21:27.577 That was awesome to go and visit those guys. 310 00:21:27.661 --> 00:21:29.871 INGRID: Yeah, great jump! KINA: Yeah, cheers mate. 311 00:21:29.955 --> 00:21:34.710 KINA (off-screen): That splash and the, and the noise of the helicopter really has to 312 00:21:34.793 --> 00:21:38.255 attract them and they were straight on top of me when I got in, 313 00:21:38.338 --> 00:21:41.341 but not as many as I would've expected to see. 314 00:21:41.425 --> 00:21:42.551 INGRID: Really? 315 00:21:42.634 --> 00:21:45.220 Okay, well that's really interesting because given that 316 00:21:45.304 --> 00:21:47.389 we know historically that orca are coming in here, 317 00:21:47.472 --> 00:21:49.182 and we've had the reports recently, 318 00:21:49.266 --> 00:21:51.685 and now you're seeing less sharks in here too, so, 319 00:21:51.768 --> 00:21:55.480 you know, it's indicative that something's been going on, right? 320 00:21:59.443 --> 00:22:01.903 NARRATOR: Lower sevengill numbers could mean a few 321 00:22:01.987 --> 00:22:06.533 things are going on including predation by larger predators, 322 00:22:06.616 --> 00:22:09.411 like orcas. 323 00:22:10.329 --> 00:22:13.582 That would mark a change in their usual diet. 324 00:22:17.294 --> 00:22:21.506 Traditionally, New Zealand orca hunt the many species 325 00:22:21.590 --> 00:22:25.886 of rays and skates that live in these waters. 326 00:22:27.179 --> 00:22:32.309 Like, all dolphins, they have a special ability to find them. 327 00:22:32.392 --> 00:22:34.436 INGRID: Orca hunt using echolocation, 328 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.231 which is a series of clicks that they send out that bounce 329 00:22:38.315 --> 00:22:41.068 back and give them incredible information. 330 00:22:42.027 --> 00:22:45.572 They can tell even if a shark has a full tummy. 331 00:22:46.281 --> 00:22:48.533 NARRATOR: It works like sonar. 332 00:22:49.534 --> 00:22:52.412 The orca can detect their prey even when it's buried 333 00:22:52.496 --> 00:22:54.247 in the sand. 334 00:22:57.042 --> 00:23:00.712 But, filling up on rays and skates can be hard work 335 00:23:00.796 --> 00:23:03.715 and burn a lot of precious energy. 336 00:23:07.969 --> 00:23:08.970 KINA: All right. 337 00:23:09.054 --> 00:23:10.138 INGRID (off-screen): Do you see them? 338 00:23:10.222 --> 00:23:11.348 Look, they're in a really tight group over here. 339 00:23:11.431 --> 00:23:12.766 Right there. 340 00:23:14.309 --> 00:23:16.812 NARRATOR: Many rays are bottom feeders, 341 00:23:16.895 --> 00:23:20.315 and spend much of their time on or buried in the sandy 342 00:23:20.399 --> 00:23:22.526 ocean floor. 343 00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:28.156 Orca jaws are not designed to grab them off the bottom, 344 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.201 so the orca work together. 345 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:36.456 Chasing the rays upward and catching them in the open. 346 00:23:41.753 --> 00:23:45.090 But ray hunts don't always go smoothly. 347 00:23:47.134 --> 00:23:51.430 Rays often flee to shallower water, 348 00:23:57.602 --> 00:24:01.356 making it dangerous for the orca. 349 00:24:05.861 --> 00:24:08.280 There is the risk of a fatal stranding 350 00:24:08.363 --> 00:24:10.991 as the tide goes out. 351 00:24:20.959 --> 00:24:25.297 And the ray may still escape. 352 00:24:30.635 --> 00:24:33.597 NARRATOR: When orca hunt rays in New Zealand, 353 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:37.017 their size is not always an advantage. 354 00:24:40.312 --> 00:24:43.815 ♪ ♪ 355 00:24:49.196 --> 00:24:54.367 After a lot of work and coordinated effort among several orca, 356 00:24:57.496 --> 00:25:00.790 they catch the ray 357 00:25:00.874 --> 00:25:04.878 but it's a tiny payoff for all that effort. 358 00:25:07.172 --> 00:25:12.052 And compared with white sharks rays are a snack. 359 00:25:13.512 --> 00:25:16.723 One 700-pound great white shark liver could be 360 00:25:16.806 --> 00:25:21.436 equivalent to nearly 175 ray livers. 361 00:25:21.520 --> 00:25:25.148 And it's a lot more work to hunt multiple rays. 362 00:25:26.691 --> 00:25:30.278 While it is more dangerous to hunt a single great white, 363 00:25:30.362 --> 00:25:33.532 it might be worth the risk. 364 00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:43.124 KINA: It's really hard not to think when you see animals 365 00:25:43.208 --> 00:25:45.377 that big that their liver must be 366 00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:47.837 gold to a liver-eating orca. 367 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.009 NARRATOR: A great white liver can grow to 25% of the shark's 368 00:25:53.093 --> 00:25:55.220 total weight. 369 00:25:55.303 --> 00:25:58.139 If a 12-foot great white weighs 1,000 pounds, 370 00:25:58.223 --> 00:26:02.686 it may have a liver weighing 250 pounds. 371 00:26:04.104 --> 00:26:07.190 A big pay-off for the orca. 372 00:26:16.908 --> 00:26:20.662 Kina and Ingrid are off one of the Foveaux Strait's large 373 00:26:20.745 --> 00:26:22.956 colonies of seals. 374 00:26:27.252 --> 00:26:31.381 Over the summer, the white sharks consume many. 375 00:26:33.425 --> 00:26:37.512 Their livers are swollen with seal blubber and oil. 376 00:26:39.472 --> 00:26:43.018 Ingrid and Kina are looking at the length of the sharks 377 00:26:43.101 --> 00:26:45.353 to estimate their liver weight. 378 00:26:45.812 --> 00:26:48.565 INGRID: There's one coming up from the starboard side there. 379 00:26:51.151 --> 00:26:52.569 That's coming right in at us. 380 00:26:55.780 --> 00:26:57.824 How big do you think that one is, Kina? 381 00:26:58.450 --> 00:27:01.453 KINA: See, that male there is quite a bit smaller. 382 00:27:02.412 --> 00:27:05.832 And he's well longer than this cage is wide, so, 383 00:27:06.207 --> 00:27:07.500 probably... 384 00:27:08.084 --> 00:27:10.170 three and a half meters? 385 00:27:11.963 --> 00:27:15.550 It's still three or four times bigger than any of the sevengills 386 00:27:15.634 --> 00:27:17.719 I saw on the dive the other day. 387 00:27:19.638 --> 00:27:23.058 NARRATOR: Great white sharks as prey for anything, 388 00:27:23.141 --> 00:27:26.227 even orca, is hard to fathom. 389 00:27:26.311 --> 00:27:29.773 But the orca may see them that way. 390 00:27:29.856 --> 00:27:31.733 INGRID: All our evidence points to the fact that the 391 00:27:31.816 --> 00:27:35.987 New Zealand orca have a very strong culture of hunting sharks. 392 00:27:38.365 --> 00:27:43.119 INGRID (off-screen): If the rays were removed from the food web here in New Zealand, 393 00:27:43.203 --> 00:27:48.583 chances are the orca would shift their food preferences. 394 00:27:49.876 --> 00:27:54.255 And they could start targeting great white sharks in earnest. 395 00:27:54.339 --> 00:27:57.425 NARRATOR: So far the supply of rays and skates 396 00:27:57.509 --> 00:27:59.302 has been ample. 397 00:27:59.386 --> 00:28:03.765 But add warming oceans to natural fluctuations in all 398 00:28:03.848 --> 00:28:07.185 animal populations and it's hard to predict 399 00:28:07.268 --> 00:28:08.436 what will happen. 400 00:28:09.729 --> 00:28:12.190 INGRID: Looks like the size of a horse. 401 00:28:14.859 --> 00:28:18.405 A shark that size, the liver has to be absolutely huge. 402 00:28:23.118 --> 00:28:25.370 KINA: I think we can pretty accurately say 403 00:28:26.037 --> 00:28:30.125 it's 4.2 meters long, or even a little bit bigger. 404 00:28:31.167 --> 00:28:37.215 And that weighs something like 1200 kilos, or 2500 pounds. 405 00:28:42.053 --> 00:28:44.723 That's a mighty, mighty feed for a 406 00:28:44.806 --> 00:28:46.349 liver-eating orca. 407 00:28:49.686 --> 00:28:53.690 INGRID: I think a shark that size would be a feast for a whole family, mate. 408 00:28:54.232 --> 00:28:55.692 Not just one orca! 409 00:28:58.403 --> 00:29:00.572 Is it just me, Kina, or are the circles that they're making 410 00:29:00.655 --> 00:29:02.949 getting smaller and smaller? 411 00:29:04.075 --> 00:29:05.660 KINA: I think you're dead right, mate. 412 00:29:11.958 --> 00:29:13.626 INGRID: Is it behind us? 413 00:29:14.836 --> 00:29:16.546 Under the boat! 414 00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:18.381 Here he comes again, eh? 415 00:29:26.931 --> 00:29:29.392 NARRATOR: The half dozen white sharks swimming by 416 00:29:29.476 --> 00:29:32.687 are more than impressive. 417 00:29:32.771 --> 00:29:38.234 To an orca, they may represent the food value of 1,000 rays. 418 00:29:38.693 --> 00:29:41.237 KINA: There's another huge one. Here we go! 419 00:29:43.198 --> 00:29:47.243 If that other one that we saw earlier was 4.2 meters, 420 00:29:47.327 --> 00:29:50.205 I would say that she would have to be 421 00:29:50.288 --> 00:29:55.960 well over four and a half meters. Probably close to 15 or 16 feet. 422 00:29:56.795 --> 00:29:59.631 NARRATOR: At 16 feet, this one great white shark alone 423 00:29:59.714 --> 00:30:03.885 is the equivalent of 200 rays to a hungry orca. 424 00:30:03.968 --> 00:30:06.346 It might be a motive for predation. 425 00:30:06.846 --> 00:30:10.433 INGRID: Compared to the size of a ray liver, which is just a few pounds, 426 00:30:10.517 --> 00:30:14.437 a couple of kilos at most, to the size of a liver of these guys, 427 00:30:14.521 --> 00:30:17.315 it's no wonder the orca would want to target them. 428 00:30:19.442 --> 00:30:20.568 KINA (off-screen): It's hard not to think, 429 00:30:20.652 --> 00:30:22.362 an animal as intelligent as the orca, 430 00:30:22.445 --> 00:30:25.114 that they're coming through here at the perfect time 431 00:30:25.198 --> 00:30:26.950 of year, when the livers are fat, 432 00:30:27.033 --> 00:30:29.536 they've gotta see this as a food source. 433 00:30:29.619 --> 00:30:31.079 And even though it's high risk, 434 00:30:31.162 --> 00:30:33.706 we've seen in South Africa that they can decide 435 00:30:33.790 --> 00:30:34.874 it's worth it. 436 00:30:34.958 --> 00:30:36.125 There's such a food source there. 437 00:30:36.209 --> 00:30:37.669 INGRID: Oh, absolutely. 438 00:30:37.752 --> 00:30:39.587 KINA: You've gotta wonder whether they're not already 439 00:30:39.671 --> 00:30:40.922 onto this. 440 00:30:41.005 --> 00:30:42.632 It may have been going on for a long time in New Zealand but 441 00:30:42.715 --> 00:30:43.758 we've just never heard about it. 442 00:30:43.842 --> 00:30:44.884 INGRID: Just, yeah, exactly. 443 00:30:50.557 --> 00:30:53.560 NARRATOR: Ingrid and Kina have found many similarities 444 00:30:53.643 --> 00:30:57.063 between New Zealand and South Africa. 445 00:31:00.233 --> 00:31:04.737 In both places, the orca already have a taste 446 00:31:04.821 --> 00:31:07.198 for sevengill sharks. 447 00:31:10.034 --> 00:31:14.455 But after the orca killed five great whites in South Africa, 448 00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:17.959 all the other white sharks disappeared. 449 00:31:18.835 --> 00:31:22.130 In New Zealand, all of these sharks 450 00:31:22.213 --> 00:31:26.009 are still here and hunting. 451 00:31:34.601 --> 00:31:37.770 Then, like a bolt from the blue, 452 00:31:37.854 --> 00:31:42.191 Kina and Ingrid finally see what they've been looking for. 453 00:31:42.275 --> 00:31:43.318 INGRID: Wow! 454 00:31:44.527 --> 00:31:46.404 That didn't look like shark bites. 455 00:31:47.572 --> 00:31:48.907 KINA: That really is phenomenal! 456 00:31:55.580 --> 00:31:59.334 NARRATOR: Kina and Ingrid are observing local white shark behavior, 457 00:31:59.417 --> 00:32:03.630 when a male with a wound catches their eye. 458 00:32:06.925 --> 00:32:08.426 KINA: Wow! 459 00:32:08.760 --> 00:32:12.138 One has got big, white rake marks on his dorsal. 460 00:32:13.514 --> 00:32:16.100 INGRID: They didn't look like shark bites. 461 00:32:17.435 --> 00:32:19.562 Should have a look and see if it's orca bite marks! 462 00:32:21.189 --> 00:32:22.482 KINA: You're right! That's interesting. 463 00:32:22.982 --> 00:32:25.526 I'll try to get some close shots of it, so we can have a look 464 00:32:25.610 --> 00:32:28.029 later on, see if we can figure out what they are. 465 00:32:28.821 --> 00:32:30.239 INGRID: It's coming up on your left, right there, Kina. 466 00:32:31.616 --> 00:32:32.867 The one with the rake marks. 467 00:32:37.288 --> 00:32:40.541 That's the guy we want. We just want him to come in a bit closer, eh? 468 00:32:46.965 --> 00:32:49.759 NARRATOR: An unusual mark on a white shark's dorsal fin 469 00:32:49.842 --> 00:32:52.303 looks like a bite. 470 00:32:53.888 --> 00:32:56.975 INGRID: He's just swum towards the bow. 471 00:32:57.475 --> 00:33:00.937 He's just coming down the port side of the boat at the moment. 472 00:33:04.649 --> 00:33:06.150 Coming in close now. 473 00:33:13.282 --> 00:33:14.283 Wow! 474 00:33:14.409 --> 00:33:17.078 Those rake marks look really distinctive. 475 00:33:26.004 --> 00:33:27.588 KINA: What were those rake marks on the fin? 476 00:33:27.672 --> 00:33:28.715 That was fascinating. 477 00:33:28.798 --> 00:33:29.882 INGRID: Yeah. 478 00:33:29.966 --> 00:33:32.260 KINA: They were quite wide apart and very straight, 479 00:33:32.343 --> 00:33:33.386 which was interesting. 480 00:33:33.469 --> 00:33:34.470 INGRID (off-screen): Yes. 481 00:33:34.554 --> 00:33:36.472 KINA (off-screen): And those were uniform. That was something new to me. 482 00:33:36.556 --> 00:33:37.765 INGRID: Yeah. 483 00:33:37.849 --> 00:33:39.434 And it looks very similar to what I see in the stingrays 484 00:33:39.517 --> 00:33:41.477 when the orca have been biting them. 485 00:33:41.561 --> 00:33:44.147 You know, you get these sort of like someone's raked the garden, 486 00:33:44.230 --> 00:33:45.815 but it's teeth rake marks, 487 00:33:45.898 --> 00:33:47.984 and that's what it looked like to me. 488 00:33:52.572 --> 00:33:54.657 Yeah, so let me show you these. 489 00:33:54.741 --> 00:33:59.996 This is a picture of an orca's teeth. 490 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:01.748 See how the teeth curve backwards? 491 00:34:01.831 --> 00:34:04.792 And so here, this is a close up of these teeth marks, 492 00:34:04.876 --> 00:34:08.296 and this is what I think we saw on that great white shark. 493 00:34:08.379 --> 00:34:09.756 KINA (off-screen): Yeah, amazing. 494 00:34:12.383 --> 00:34:14.260 INGRID: And when you look at the scale on here. 495 00:34:14.343 --> 00:34:15.678 KINA: Same thing, that was what we saw on that shark! 496 00:34:15.762 --> 00:34:17.055 INGRID: Matched with what we saw. Yeah. 497 00:34:17.138 --> 00:34:19.932 So if I had to put money on it, I would say it was orca. 498 00:34:20.016 --> 00:34:21.642 KINA (off-screen): Well, I certainly can't think of anything else, 499 00:34:21.726 --> 00:34:22.852 and that is pretty phenomenal. 500 00:34:22.935 --> 00:34:24.395 INGRID (off-screen): Sure. 501 00:34:24.479 --> 00:34:26.147 KINA (off-screen): This could well be the evidence we're looking for. 502 00:34:26.230 --> 00:34:28.941 NARRATOR: The bite marks could be a breakthrough. 503 00:34:29.025 --> 00:34:32.111 The first visible sign of orca-on-white shark predation 504 00:34:32.195 --> 00:34:33.863 they've seen. 505 00:34:38.701 --> 00:34:42.497 Ingrid and Kina devise an experiment that will use sound 506 00:34:42.580 --> 00:34:44.373 instead of sight. 507 00:34:44.457 --> 00:34:46.542 INGRID: Orca use a range of different sounds. 508 00:34:46.626 --> 00:34:49.337 They use clicks for echolocation, 509 00:34:49.420 --> 00:34:52.006 they use whistles and pulsed calls when 510 00:34:52.090 --> 00:34:53.925 they're communicating. 511 00:34:54.008 --> 00:34:55.885 It's really impressive. 512 00:34:56.803 --> 00:34:59.305 NARRATOR: So they'll use recorded whale sounds and 513 00:34:59.388 --> 00:35:01.682 observe how the sharks react. 514 00:35:04.185 --> 00:35:07.271 KINA (off-screen): It's a little known fact about great white sharks that 515 00:35:07.355 --> 00:35:09.857 they actually have amazing hearing. 516 00:35:10.942 --> 00:35:14.946 So I think if the great white sharks react to orca sounds, 517 00:35:15.029 --> 00:35:17.782 that might mean that they've met them before. 518 00:35:17.865 --> 00:35:21.369 How they react could possibly even tell us, 519 00:35:21.452 --> 00:35:25.081 whether that experience was hunting, or otherwise. 520 00:35:25.164 --> 00:35:29.127 So this experiment is going to be very interesting. 521 00:35:31.337 --> 00:35:33.047 NARRATOR: They mount an underwater speaker 522 00:35:33.131 --> 00:35:34.882 on the dive cage. 523 00:35:34.966 --> 00:35:38.928 The plan, play sounds from several other kinds of whales first. 524 00:35:39.011 --> 00:35:40.221 INGRID: Here you go. 525 00:35:40.304 --> 00:35:41.556 NARRATOR: To try and draw the sharks in. 526 00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:42.932 INGRID (off-screen): Oh, that's perfect. 527 00:35:43.015 --> 00:35:44.934 NARRATOR: Once white sharks are around the cage, 528 00:35:45.017 --> 00:35:49.272 Ingrid will play the sounds of New Zealand orcas hunting. 529 00:35:49.355 --> 00:35:50.606 KINA: Done. 530 00:35:50.690 --> 00:35:54.402 It will be interesting to see if they are actually scared of 531 00:35:54.485 --> 00:35:57.071 orca or if they, you know, if they know what it's like 532 00:35:57.155 --> 00:35:58.156 to be scared of something! 533 00:36:03.578 --> 00:36:06.289 ♪ ♪ 534 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:15.506 INGRID: Do you copy me, Kina? 535 00:36:16.090 --> 00:36:19.010 KINA: Roger, Ingrid, loud and clear. 536 00:36:19.677 --> 00:36:20.970 I guess we're good to go! 537 00:36:22.889 --> 00:36:24.348 INGRID: Well, look I'm gonna start playing the first set 538 00:36:24.432 --> 00:36:25.516 of sounds now. 539 00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:28.311 This is the humpback whale calls that you recorded. 540 00:36:28.895 --> 00:36:30.688 KINA: Roger that. Go right ahead. 541 00:36:35.359 --> 00:36:37.528 (humpback whale singing over PA) 542 00:36:37.612 --> 00:36:41.866 NARRATOR: This is humpback whale song, 543 00:36:41.949 --> 00:36:46.621 and possibly a great white dinner bell. 544 00:36:48.372 --> 00:36:51.000 White sharks are known to hunt whale calves 545 00:36:51.083 --> 00:36:53.044 in the tropical pacific. 546 00:36:55.463 --> 00:36:58.841 KINA: Well, that certainly got a couple of people interested! 547 00:36:59.759 --> 00:37:02.595 (humpback whale singing over PA) 548 00:37:10.144 --> 00:37:14.065 Oh, yep, all of a sudden we've got three sharks right on top of us. 549 00:37:17.902 --> 00:37:21.072 NARRATOR: The circling great whites begin to rush the 550 00:37:21.155 --> 00:37:22.865 speaker and the cage. 551 00:37:26.410 --> 00:37:27.703 KINA: The sharks are just 552 00:37:27.787 --> 00:37:32.250 all over the cage, and all over the side that the speaker's on. 553 00:37:32.333 --> 00:37:36.671 It's hard not to think that they're reacting to that sound, to be honest. 554 00:37:41.467 --> 00:37:45.721 ♪ ♪ 555 00:37:53.145 --> 00:37:55.022 (humpback whale singing over PA) 556 00:37:57.775 --> 00:37:58.818 Wow! 557 00:37:59.277 --> 00:38:02.530 Ingrid, we've just got that, uh, 558 00:38:02.613 --> 00:38:08.661 shark with the two big rake marks on its dorsal fin back again! 559 00:38:10.496 --> 00:38:11.914 Look at that! 560 00:38:17.086 --> 00:38:21.632 ♪ ♪ 561 00:38:24.051 --> 00:38:26.470 NARRATOR: The sharks are clearly responding to the 562 00:38:26.554 --> 00:38:28.389 humpback whale sounds. 563 00:38:28.472 --> 00:38:32.435 The question is, how will they react to the sound 564 00:38:32.518 --> 00:38:35.313 of New Zealand killer whales? 565 00:38:41.819 --> 00:38:44.238 NARRATOR: Ingrid Visser and Kina Scollay want to see how 566 00:38:44.322 --> 00:38:48.242 great whites react to the sounds of hunting orca. 567 00:38:50.036 --> 00:38:53.831 First, as a test, they play humpback whale song. 568 00:38:56.417 --> 00:38:59.170 The sharks come straight to the sound. 569 00:39:03.716 --> 00:39:04.800 KINA: Whoa! 570 00:39:05.634 --> 00:39:07.803 NARRATOR: Including the shark with the bite marks 571 00:39:07.887 --> 00:39:09.388 on its dorsal fin. 572 00:39:13.851 --> 00:39:16.687 They have to wait a few minutes for the sharks to 573 00:39:16.771 --> 00:39:20.024 settle down after the humpback reaction. 574 00:39:23.194 --> 00:39:24.653 INGRID: Now I'm just gonna play you the sounds from the 575 00:39:24.737 --> 00:39:27.990 orca that eat the salmon, I recorded these guys off 576 00:39:28.074 --> 00:39:29.158 North America. 577 00:39:29.241 --> 00:39:30.242 Standby. 578 00:39:40.544 --> 00:39:42.004 (orca calls over PA) 579 00:39:42.088 --> 00:39:43.297 INGRID (over radio): Can you hear that? 580 00:39:43.756 --> 00:39:45.216 KINA: Loud and clear. 581 00:39:52.264 --> 00:39:55.684 Ingrid, it's really interesting. I- 582 00:39:55.768 --> 00:39:58.521 To be honest, I can't see much difference 583 00:39:58.604 --> 00:40:01.816 in the shark behavior here at all, over. 584 00:40:08.656 --> 00:40:10.783 Not much has changed down here. 585 00:40:14.078 --> 00:40:16.414 INGRID (off-screen): Yeah, well, I guess that doesn't really surprise me 586 00:40:16.497 --> 00:40:18.541 given that these are the fish-eating orca. 587 00:40:18.624 --> 00:40:23.796 NARRATOR: The sharks appear unresponsive to the North American orca calls 588 00:40:23.879 --> 00:40:26.257 but these sounds have never been heard 589 00:40:26.340 --> 00:40:28.217 before in New Zealand. 590 00:40:29.135 --> 00:40:32.179 INGRID: Yeah, Kina, so now I'm gonna play you the New Zealand orca. 591 00:40:33.264 --> 00:40:35.516 These are probably the ones that the great whites have 592 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:36.892 heard before. 593 00:40:37.643 --> 00:40:38.894 INGRID (off-screen): Stand by. 594 00:40:42.273 --> 00:40:46.110 (orca calls over PA) 595 00:40:51.115 --> 00:40:53.409 (orca calls over PA) 596 00:40:57.663 --> 00:41:01.125 KINA: Just skirted off towards the side of the boat there. 597 00:41:04.962 --> 00:41:07.047 I can't say for sure, but 598 00:41:07.131 --> 00:41:08.799 right now, I can't see 599 00:41:08.883 --> 00:41:10.134 any sharks at all. 600 00:41:11.969 --> 00:41:14.138 NARRATOR: The sharks response was clearly to 601 00:41:14.221 --> 00:41:16.557 move away from the sound. 602 00:41:23.814 --> 00:41:25.691 KINA: That's a huge female! 603 00:41:28.527 --> 00:41:30.863 But she's just not approaching the cage. 604 00:41:33.491 --> 00:41:37.203 Way out across the bottom, I keep seeing these shapes. 605 00:41:37.286 --> 00:41:39.413 Big sharks cruising past. 606 00:41:41.874 --> 00:41:44.835 The sharks are there, but they just don't seem to be interested 607 00:41:44.919 --> 00:41:46.462 in coming anywhere near us. 608 00:41:48.714 --> 00:41:51.342 NARRATOR: Ingrid and Kina observe that the sharks keep 609 00:41:51.425 --> 00:41:54.220 the source of the orca sounds in sight. 610 00:41:55.054 --> 00:41:57.681 But stay well out of the way. 611 00:42:00.684 --> 00:42:03.812 KINA: It is hard to know what's going on, but, um. 612 00:42:05.105 --> 00:42:06.774 Yeah, interesting. 613 00:42:16.283 --> 00:42:18.035 INGRID (off-screen): How was that, mate? 614 00:42:18.118 --> 00:42:21.121 KINA: Yeah, well, another awesome dive down here but interesting. 615 00:42:21.205 --> 00:42:23.916 We've only really had a glimpse, eh? 616 00:42:23.999 --> 00:42:26.961 NARRATOR: The orca sounds changed the behavior of 617 00:42:27.044 --> 00:42:28.546 the white sharks. 618 00:42:28.629 --> 00:42:31.674 From fearlessly coming into the sounds of the humpbacks, 619 00:42:31.757 --> 00:42:35.970 to moving off and keeping their distance when they heard 620 00:42:36.053 --> 00:42:38.389 hunting orca. 621 00:42:40.641 --> 00:42:43.978 But was this a typical animal reaction to danger? 622 00:42:44.061 --> 00:42:46.855 INGRID: You know, when you think about the bite marks 623 00:42:46.939 --> 00:42:48.649 that we saw that could've been the orca, 624 00:42:48.732 --> 00:42:52.361 and you saw the way that the great white sharks, you know, 625 00:42:52.444 --> 00:42:54.780 there was a bit of a reaction there but not full on. 626 00:42:54.863 --> 00:42:58.367 KINA: Obviously, we'd have to do this a lot of times to be able to say for sure. 627 00:42:58.450 --> 00:42:59.660 INGRID: Yeah. 628 00:42:59.743 --> 00:43:02.830 KINA: But maybe actually the sharks aren't so scared of orca. 629 00:43:02.913 --> 00:43:05.040 INGRID: Well, maybe New Zealand sharks are more 630 00:43:05.124 --> 00:43:07.376 exposed to it like even from when they are little sharks, 631 00:43:07.459 --> 00:43:10.713 and so they just become habituated to it. 632 00:43:10.796 --> 00:43:16.010 NARRATOR: When orca killed five white sharks in South Africa in 2017, 633 00:43:16.093 --> 00:43:18.137 many scientists believed it was a 634 00:43:18.220 --> 00:43:20.014 first for the region. 635 00:43:20.097 --> 00:43:23.559 But is it possible that white sharks have been fending off 636 00:43:23.642 --> 00:43:26.437 orca attacks for thousands of years? 637 00:43:26.520 --> 00:43:30.733 And what we see are only the most recent incidents in an 638 00:43:30.816 --> 00:43:33.611 ancient and on-going battle? 639 00:43:34.445 --> 00:43:36.864 INGRID: I guess the big thing for me is, you know, 640 00:43:36.947 --> 00:43:39.033 how far are these orca going? 641 00:43:39.116 --> 00:43:41.869 We've got some evidence that suggests that they are at 642 00:43:41.952 --> 00:43:44.997 least trying to have a nibble on them, but, uh, 643 00:43:45.080 --> 00:43:48.667 you know I'm, I'm curious to know just how far they've taken it. 644 00:43:50.836 --> 00:43:53.839 NARRATOR: So far, there have been no reported serial shark 645 00:43:53.922 --> 00:43:56.008 attacks in New Zealand. 646 00:43:57.176 --> 00:43:59.762 But here on the far side of the world, 647 00:43:59.845 --> 00:44:04.725 the unseen struggle between orca and white shark goes on, 648 00:44:05.059 --> 00:44:07.728 in secret, for now. 649 00:44:07.811 --> 00:44:09.813 Captioned by Cotter Media Group.