1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:11,765 --> 00:00:14,396 JUDY WOODRUFF: His death shook the nation. 4 00:00:14,420 --> 00:00:15,606 PROTESTERS: George Floyd! 5 00:00:15,630 --> 00:00:20,630 JUDY WOODRUFF: His life became a global symbol for racial injustice and police brutality. 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,696 PROTESTERS: I can't breathe! I can't breathe! 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,720 JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, one year after the police killing of George Floyd, where does America 8 00:00:30,690 --> 00:00:31,696 go from here? 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,946 JUDGE PETER CAHILL, Hennepin County, Minnesota: "We, the jury, in the above entitled matter, 10 00:00:33,970 --> 00:00:35,026 find the defendant guilty." 11 00:00:35,050 --> 00:00:40,050 JUDY WOODRUFF: A former Minneapolis police officer has been convicted of murdering Floyd. 12 00:00:40,620 --> 00:00:43,506 PHILONISE FLOYD, Brother of George Floyd: Today, we are able to breathe again. 13 00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:48,530 JUDY WOODRUFF: But as police killings have continued across the country in recent weeks, 14 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:55,480 we examine the lasting effects of systemic racism, the lingering distrust between communities 15 00:00:57,250 --> 00:01:02,250 of color and law enforcement, and the trauma that remains for so many. 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,680 This is "Race Matters: America After George Floyd." 17 00:01:10,970 --> 00:01:14,986 Welcome to this "PBS NewsHour" special. I'm Judy Woodruff. 18 00:01:15,010 --> 00:01:20,010 It was one year ago that George Floyd's slow and agonizing death was captured on cell phone 19 00:01:21,299 --> 00:01:26,299 video. The footage showed Floyd pinned beneath Officer Derek Chauvin's knee for more than 20 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:29,525 nine minutes, unable to breathe. 21 00:01:29,549 --> 00:01:34,549 That video sparked widespread outrage. Protesters took to the streets in cities around the world, 22 00:01:36,770 --> 00:01:39,805 demanding justice and new restrictions on police. 23 00:01:39,829 --> 00:01:41,366 PROTESTERS: Black Lives Matter! 24 00:01:41,390 --> 00:01:46,390 JUDY WOODRUFF: Many police and their unions fought back. They distanced themselves from 25 00:01:47,810 --> 00:01:52,810 Derek Chauvin, and argued that they routinely respond to dangerous situations where they 26 00:01:53,229 --> 00:01:55,205 must make split-second decisions. 27 00:01:55,229 --> 00:01:57,086 MICHAEL O'MEARA, President, New York Police Benevolent Association: This isn't stained 28 00:01:57,110 --> 00:02:00,466 by someone in Minneapolis. It's still got a shine on it. 29 00:02:00,490 --> 00:02:05,490 JUDY WOODRUFF: Last month, after his own police chief testified against him, Chauvin was convicted 30 00:02:06,430 --> 00:02:07,676 of murder. 31 00:02:07,700 --> 00:02:12,700 But the debate over how to address police violence continues. Over the past year, cities 32 00:02:13,141 --> 00:02:18,141 and states have enacted laws that ban choke holds, expand the use of body cameras, and 33 00:02:20,010 --> 00:02:25,010 require that police intervene if one of their fellow officers is using excessive force. 34 00:02:25,459 --> 00:02:30,459 And roughly 1,500 police reform bills are still pending in state legislatures. 35 00:02:30,620 --> 00:02:34,416 REP. AL GREEN (D-TX): I rise to support this bill 36 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,440 JUDY WOODRUFF: At the federal level, the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act has stalled 37 00:02:39,709 --> 00:02:44,709 in Congress, after passing the House in a largely party-line vote. It aims to limit 38 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,276 use of force, increase accountability, and improve police training. 39 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:55,300 Meanwhile, the questions around excessive force haven't ceased. Since Floyd's death, 40 00:02:55,959 --> 00:03:00,959 more than 900 people have been shot and killed by police, according to a Washington Post 41 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,440 database. And recent studies have found Black Americans are more than 2.5 times more likely 42 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:10,856 to be killed by police than white Americans. 43 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,880 Researchers and community leaders say persistent racial bias and a history of discrimination 44 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,855 are a big part of this disparity. 45 00:03:19,879 --> 00:03:24,879 But police officers are rarely prosecuted. Only about 1 percent of police are arrested 46 00:03:25,989 --> 00:03:30,989 for fatal shootings each year, and about a third of those are convicted of any charge. 47 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,960 So, while some are hoping for justice in the courtroom, others say, to truly address racism 48 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,306 in this country, much more still needs to change. 49 00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:47,330 Tonight, we look at how the country is grappling with racial inequities through the lens of 50 00:03:47,970 --> 00:03:52,970 three cities. We will discuss what has changed over the last year, and what still needs to 51 00:03:53,690 --> 00:03:57,196 be done to create a more equitable future. 52 00:03:57,220 --> 00:04:02,220 Amna Nawaz begins our special coverage in Minneapolis, the home of George Floyd. 53 00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:08,540 AMNA NAWAZ: Before the trial, before the verdict, before the protests and the marches, before 54 00:04:09,860 --> 00:04:14,646 this latest debate over policing reform and the racial reckoning across America, before 55 00:04:14,670 --> 00:04:19,670 all of that, there was this, the corner of 38th and Chicago on the South Side of Minneapolis, 56 00:04:21,220 --> 00:04:24,756 the place where George Floyd was murdered and where a movement was born. 57 00:04:24,780 --> 00:04:26,506 MARCIA HOWARD, Community Activist: Well, good morning. 58 00:04:26,530 --> 00:04:31,436 AMNA NAWAZ: It's 8:00 in the morning at George Floyd Square. Marcia Howard has already been 59 00:04:31,460 --> 00:04:32,437 here for hours. 60 00:04:32,461 --> 00:04:37,106 MARCIA HOWARD: Let's just be gentle with each other, so we can be dangerous together. 61 00:04:37,130 --> 00:04:42,130 AMNA NAWAZ: She's a fixture here, watching over this now sacred ground. A year ago, Howard 62 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:47,546 was teaching English at Roosevelt High School just down the road. Her Instagram was filled 63 00:04:47,570 --> 00:04:52,570 with pies and flowers and carefully curated scenes. Friends jokingly called her Marcia 64 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:54,177 Stewart. 65 00:04:54,201 --> 00:04:55,365 PROTESTERS: George Floyd! 66 00:04:55,389 --> 00:04:58,456 AMNA NAWAZ: That all changed when George Floyd was murdered. 67 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,480 MARCIA HOWARD: I am a retired Marine. I joined during a war. And the idea that we would have 68 00:05:08,710 --> 00:05:13,710 the military come up my street and the MPD and the National Guard form a Phalanx right 69 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,960 here, precisely right here, broke something inside of me that had once been whole. 70 00:05:22,610 --> 00:05:23,736 AMNA NAWAZ: It broke something, you say. 71 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:28,760 MARCIA HOWARD: It broke something. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't do anything. 72 00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:34,180 I couldn't. And so, if I was awake, I was out here. And because I was always awake, 73 00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:37,666 I was always out here. 74 00:05:37,690 --> 00:05:38,826 PROTESTER: Say his name! 75 00:05:38,850 --> 00:05:39,827 PROTESTERS: George Floyd! 76 00:05:39,851 --> 00:05:44,466 AMNA NAWAZ: Over the last year, this site has evolved from protest zone to a place of 77 00:05:44,490 --> 00:05:49,490 mourning to a movement for change. Now barricaded, it's run by the community itself, demanding 78 00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:52,296 reform before the barriers come down. 79 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,320 MARCIA HOWARD: George Floyd Square is now a memorial, but it also... it signifies that 80 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:05,900 this intersection stands for us saying, no more. We're done... we're done with status 81 00:06:09,790 --> 00:06:14,790 quo, when status quo is the summary execution of Black people and brown people and indigenous 82 00:06:15,789 --> 00:06:18,396 people. We're done. We're done. 83 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:23,420 AMNA NAWAZ: For a year, the world's attention had been trained on Minneapolis, the viral 84 00:06:24,270 --> 00:06:29,226 video of Floyd's death, protests and violence, calls to abolish police. 85 00:06:29,250 --> 00:06:34,250 Events, at times, caught outsiders by surprise, but some here called it inevitable. 86 00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:40,300 JUSTIN ELLIS, Journalist: A majority white population created conditions that, at a certain 87 00:06:41,539 --> 00:06:46,145 point, you say, well, if my life is... if my life means nothing, if the life of my family 88 00:06:46,169 --> 00:06:50,506 means nothing, if you're going to not listen to us, then the only way that I'm going to 89 00:06:50,530 --> 00:06:55,530 get you to listen is to get in your face, is to make you very uncomfortable, and start 90 00:06:55,970 --> 00:06:57,716 asking very uncomfortable questions. 91 00:06:57,740 --> 00:07:02,386 AMNA NAWAZ: Journalist Justin Ellis, born and raised here, is writing a book on being 92 00:07:02,410 --> 00:07:03,956 born Black in Minneapolis. 93 00:07:03,980 --> 00:07:08,586 The Twin Cities have some of the nation's worst racial disparities. For median household 94 00:07:08,610 --> 00:07:13,066 income and homeownership, the gaps between white and Black families here are some of 95 00:07:13,090 --> 00:07:15,056 the widest in America. 96 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,906 Ellis says racist policies and outcomes are hidden in Minnesota beneath the perception 97 00:07:19,930 --> 00:07:22,795 that the state welcomes everyone, regardless of race. 98 00:07:22,819 --> 00:07:27,786 JUSTIN ELLIS: When you think about George Floyd, a man who came from Houston, who came 99 00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:32,810 here because there were specific programs that people had told him about that could 100 00:07:32,849 --> 00:07:37,096 help you turn your life around, here, I think about my own family. I think about all the 101 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,026 different refugees who have come here over the years. 102 00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:45,050 And that's the thing that, to me, always just felt really damning, is that Minnesota perpetuates 103 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:52,006 this idea that this is going to be a place that will be safe and that this will be a 104 00:07:52,030 --> 00:07:53,446 place that will be open and inviting. 105 00:07:53,470 --> 00:07:54,536 AMNA NAWAZ: And in reality? 106 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,560 JUSTIN ELLIS: And the reality of that is that it is only those things if you are white. 107 00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:04,759 AMNA NAWAZ: That's a reality 23-year-old Isak Douah has lived his whole life. The son of 108 00:08:05,629 --> 00:08:08,016 immigrants, he grew up just miles from George Floyd Square. 109 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,586 ISAK DOUAH, Community Activist: In Minnesota, like, the most racist experiences I have had 110 00:08:11,610 --> 00:08:15,486 have been with people that I'm sure would argue that they're a liberal. They might have 111 00:08:15,510 --> 00:08:20,510 like a... the Black Lives Matter bumper sticker, but they harbor intense resentment for African-American 112 00:08:22,470 --> 00:08:23,447 people. 113 00:08:23,471 --> 00:08:27,596 AMNA NAWAZ: Isak's father, Remi, is from the Ivory Coast, his mother, Thorunn, from Iceland. 114 00:08:27,620 --> 00:08:32,106 They came to the U.S. in the 1980s, met at the University of Minnesota, and had Isak 115 00:08:32,130 --> 00:08:33,776 in 1998. 116 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,946 Together they learned that raising him in America would be different than in their home 117 00:08:37,970 --> 00:08:38,947 countries. 118 00:08:38,971 --> 00:08:42,036 REMI DOUAH, Father of Isak Douah: So you don't come and say, I'm going to raise a Black child. 119 00:08:42,060 --> 00:08:45,996 You say I am going to raise a child, a human being that will and you do your best to 120 00:08:46,020 --> 00:08:51,020 raise that human being to function in society. It's society that forces you to see your child 121 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:53,777 as Black and white. 122 00:08:53,801 --> 00:08:58,800 AMNA NAWAZ: As Isak grew, so did his mother's fears, especially with each new video of police 123 00:08:59,430 --> 00:09:03,326 violence against black men. The last year, she says, has been hell. 124 00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:07,886 THORUNN BJARNADOTTIR, Mother of Isak Douah: And mothers of Black children, we're all terrified. 125 00:09:07,910 --> 00:09:12,910 It feels sometimes like a Russian roulette. Whose son is it going to be next? 126 00:09:13,010 --> 00:09:17,446 I somehow thought the George Floyd murder would be the end of it, but that that was 127 00:09:17,470 --> 00:09:22,470 the... fulfilled it, and that was it. And so, just before the verdict, they killed another 128 00:09:23,610 --> 00:09:28,610 one. And Daunte Wright, I... he looks like my son. 129 00:09:31,740 --> 00:09:36,740 And so you wonder, will he be next? 130 00:09:39,830 --> 00:09:44,830 AMNA NAWAZ: The killings haunt Thorunn. But they have propelled Isak to the front lines, 131 00:09:45,779 --> 00:09:48,846 organizing and protesting since he was 16. 132 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:53,266 There was the fatal shooting of Jamar Clark by Minneapolis police after a confrontation 133 00:09:53,290 --> 00:09:58,290 in 2015 and, less than a year later, the fatal police shooting of Philando Castile during 134 00:09:58,820 --> 00:10:01,706 a traffic stop in a Twin Cities suburb. 135 00:10:01,730 --> 00:10:06,730 After George Floyd's death, Isak went straight to the square. It shook him, he said, to his 136 00:10:07,470 --> 00:10:08,447 core. 137 00:10:08,471 --> 00:10:12,546 ISAK DOUAH: I shed tears for the first time in years, because, in ways, I felt like we 138 00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:13,547 failed him. 139 00:10:13,571 --> 00:10:18,570 But a lot of the reasons I'm fighting so hard for George Floyd's legacy and... is because 140 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,760 it's for Castile and for Jamar. Just in my short life in Minneapolis, like, I witnessed 141 00:10:26,750 --> 00:10:31,696 a whole lot of nasty bodycam footage from Minnesota police departments. 142 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:36,720 AMNA NAWAZ: For John Thompson the footage of his friend Philando Castile shook him into 143 00:10:37,170 --> 00:10:38,147 action. 144 00:10:38,171 --> 00:10:41,216 STATE REP. JOHN THOMPSON (D-MN): Friend of Philando Castile: I never protested or none 145 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,716 of this stuff, like... you know? And then you murder my friend. 146 00:10:43,740 --> 00:10:48,740 I promise Philando. I'm looking at his casket. And I'm saying, man, I'm going to make sure 147 00:10:49,450 --> 00:10:50,946 this state remember your name. 148 00:10:50,970 --> 00:10:55,970 AMNA NAWAZ: He left work as a machinist, ran for a seat in the Minnesota House of Representatives, 149 00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:58,306 and won in a landslide. 150 00:10:58,330 --> 00:11:03,296 His focus as a lawmaker? Police reforms. The Democrat-controlled House in Minnesota has 151 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,320 passed measures limiting traffic stops and requiring the quick release of bodycam footage. 152 00:11:08,529 --> 00:11:10,576 But they're stuck in the Republican-run Senate. 153 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,156 STATE REP. JOHN THOMPSON: There's going to be another dead man this year by the hands 154 00:11:14,180 --> 00:11:19,180 of law enforcement. And it's going to be because of this building that we're sitting in right 155 00:11:19,510 --> 00:11:20,487 now. 156 00:11:20,511 --> 00:11:24,016 The opposition, it's people who honestly don't live in the neighborhoods, and so they can't 157 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,886 believe it's happening, or they don't want to believe it's happening, or they just don't 158 00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:28,887 care. 159 00:11:28,911 --> 00:11:33,185 Have we made any progress since Philando's murder? No. 160 00:11:33,209 --> 00:11:38,209 AMNA NAWAZ: Back at George Floyd Square, progress is clearly defined. Marcia Howard and others 161 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,960 have drafted 24 demands for officials, what they call Justice Resolution 001. 162 00:11:46,990 --> 00:11:51,990 MARCIA HOWARD: This is not some grandstanding or a vanity project. We're not a bunch of 163 00:11:52,769 --> 00:11:57,769 zealots standing on a barricade trying to burn down the world. We're attempting to effect 164 00:11:59,870 --> 00:12:02,916 change, to address historical injustices. 165 00:12:02,940 --> 00:12:07,940 AMNA NAWAZ: There's been progress on some things on the list, Derek Chauvin's conviction, 166 00:12:08,709 --> 00:12:13,709 economic investment in the neighborhood and an independent probe of the Minneapolis police. 167 00:12:13,780 --> 00:12:17,766 But until all of the demands are met, Marcia says, the barricades stay up. 168 00:12:17,790 --> 00:12:22,790 MARCIA HOWARD: What we say is, injustice is what closed these streets. Shouldn't justice 169 00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:24,916 be the only thing that opens them? 170 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:29,940 AMNA NAWAZ: While Marcia and others reimagine community at the square, others in Minneapolis 171 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:33,435 are reimagining policing in the city. 172 00:12:33,459 --> 00:12:38,046 In November, residents will likely vote on a measure to replace the city police department 173 00:12:38,070 --> 00:12:43,070 with the Department of Public Safety, moving away from some traditional policing methods. 174 00:12:43,149 --> 00:12:48,149 The debate comes as Minneapolis, like other cities, sees a spike in violent crime. Minneapolis 175 00:12:48,910 --> 00:12:53,910 Mayor Jacob Frey says that increase is among the reasons why the city shouldn't defund 176 00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:56,856 the police. Others disagree. 177 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,880 Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo declined our interview request, but Sasha 178 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:07,320 Cotton, who runs the city's Office of Violence Prevention, agreed to sit down with us. Her 179 00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:12,686 office, launched in 2018, works to interrupt violence by training and deploying teams to 180 00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:14,796 de-escalate conflicts. 181 00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:19,176 The city more than doubled their budget for 2021, some of it from funds earmarked for 182 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,177 the police department. 183 00:13:20,201 --> 00:13:21,576 SASHA COTTON, Director, Minneapolis Office of Violence Prevention: If the goals of the 184 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,600 city are to innovate and create public safety in a new way, the budget will need to long-term 185 00:13:27,450 --> 00:13:28,427 reflect that. 186 00:13:28,451 --> 00:13:30,166 AMNA NAWAZ: But city budgets are finite items, right? 187 00:13:30,190 --> 00:13:31,167 SASHA COTTON: Yes. 188 00:13:31,191 --> 00:13:35,026 AMNA NAWAZ: You have $164 million going to police and only $7.5 million for you. Some 189 00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:38,106 folks would say that's an easy place folks - - funds can be reallocated. 190 00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:41,326 SASHA COTTON: And I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them. 191 00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:46,350 If we stay disproportionately budgeted compared to our other public safety partners, then 192 00:13:48,070 --> 00:13:52,565 our work will stay incrementally smaller than what they are able to do as well. 193 00:13:52,589 --> 00:13:57,589 AMNA NAWAZ: Budgets are one thing, but people here in Minneapolis say what will take longer 194 00:13:57,649 --> 00:14:02,649 and be harder to address is what you can't measure, the trauma Black residents carry. 195 00:14:02,950 --> 00:14:05,616 CHERIE HANSON, Canopy Mental Health & Consulting: All of a sudden, I just, like, went... I just 196 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:06,617 spiraled down. 197 00:14:06,641 --> 00:14:11,216 AMNA NAWAZ: Last year, Cherie Hanson formed a practice focusing on therapy for people 198 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,956 of color. When they started seek patients shortly after George Floyd's death, they were 199 00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:20,875 flooded with requests. Hanson says almost all of her clients talk about race. 200 00:14:20,899 --> 00:14:25,696 CHERIE HANSON: If you put yourself around Black folk who live in this city, there is 201 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,720 this air of fear underneath, like you can feel it. Like, you can walk in the room and 202 00:14:33,010 --> 00:14:35,046 you can just taste it almost. 203 00:14:35,070 --> 00:14:40,070 It's like an underlying fear. It's underlying anticipation of something bad happening. 204 00:14:40,199 --> 00:14:45,199 AMNA NAWAZ: For years, Isak carried the weight of that trauma without fully knowing it. He 205 00:14:46,191 --> 00:14:48,106 ignored his mother's push to therapy. 206 00:14:48,130 --> 00:14:53,130 ISAK DOUAH: Being a young, like, African American man, like, you're socialized to be a protector 207 00:14:54,029 --> 00:14:59,029 and strong and rough and tough. I think it's seen as kind of like a sign of weakness. 208 00:14:59,150 --> 00:15:04,137 AMNA NAWAZ: But last year, at George Floyd Square, he saw a man shot and killed. His 209 00:15:04,161 --> 00:15:05,276 mom pushed him again. 210 00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:08,736 ISAK DOUAH: That's something that's going to stick with me really for the rest of my 211 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,956 life. I decided this time not to be stubborn about it after she said that. Like, maybe 212 00:15:12,980 --> 00:15:15,986 since you feel so numb to all this, that's even more reason to go. 213 00:15:16,010 --> 00:15:18,626 What's up, you all? This is the "2 Keep It A Buck" podcast. 214 00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:23,346 AMNA NAWAZ: He's trying to pay it forward, starting a podcast focused on mental health 215 00:15:23,370 --> 00:15:26,236 and evangelizing therapy among skeptical friends. 216 00:15:26,260 --> 00:15:30,435 ISAK DOUAH: People are like: I have been through so much. I'm so strong. I know I don't need 217 00:15:30,459 --> 00:15:31,435 therapy. 218 00:15:31,459 --> 00:15:32,435 AMNA NAWAZ: That's what they tell you? 219 00:15:32,459 --> 00:15:33,436 ISAK DOUAH: You know what I'm saying? 220 00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:35,096 You're just like: Well, it sounds kind of like you're the person who needs it the most, 221 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,120 right? Like, if you have been through all this, and you're you're just good, like, 222 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:44,737 that's... that's where I felt like I was at. I was like, I don't need this. And then you 223 00:15:44,761 --> 00:15:47,546 sit down in that chair, and suddenly you're like, man, wow, I'm really messed up. 224 00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:51,276 Like, this has been a really traumatic experience growing up in Minneapolis. 225 00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:56,300 AMNA NAWAZ: Just steps from George Floyd Square, Isak's father, Remi, has his own way of healing 226 00:15:56,839 --> 00:16:01,839 that trauma. Almost every day for the past year, he's come here to the Say Their Name 227 00:16:02,730 --> 00:16:07,356 Cemetery. It's a memorial to more than 100 lives lost in police killings. 228 00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:10,026 He sets up chairs and waits. 229 00:16:10,050 --> 00:16:12,226 How often does someone come sit next to you? 230 00:16:12,250 --> 00:16:13,716 REMI DOUAH: You will be surprised. So often. 231 00:16:13,740 --> 00:16:14,716 AMNA NAWAZ: Really? 232 00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:15,716 REMI DOUAH: Yes. 233 00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:16,716 AMNA NAWAZ: And they just start talking? 234 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:17,716 REMI DOUAH: They start talking. 235 00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:18,717 AMNA NAWAZ: What do they say? 236 00:16:18,741 --> 00:16:23,740 REMI DOUAH: Some just cry. And I just listen. You have so much on your chest, you want to 237 00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:26,555 talk to another human being. 238 00:16:26,579 --> 00:16:31,579 And if you can do it here, it helps you than trying to take that all the way back to the 239 00:16:31,899 --> 00:16:34,966 square, and then to your home, and not talking to anyone. 240 00:16:34,990 --> 00:16:39,990 AMNA NAWAZ: As they talk, Remi says he always asks three questions: What makes you happy? 241 00:16:40,769 --> 00:16:43,026 When's the last time you were happy? And this: 242 00:16:43,050 --> 00:16:47,005 REMI DOUAH: The last question is, what can we do to get you to the space where you want 243 00:16:47,029 --> 00:16:48,505 to be happy? 244 00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:52,776 And that's when they start smiling. And that's what I want them to live with, a smile on 245 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,800 their faces, because we need to celebrate those guys who are in a special club of their 246 00:16:58,850 --> 00:17:00,036 own. 247 00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:05,060 George would like to smile, not to feel sad, because he was a joyful, joyful guy. 248 00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:10,630 AMNA NAWAZ: At the square bearing George Floyd's name, Marcia Howard mans her post at the western 249 00:17:11,589 --> 00:17:16,589 barrier. She will be back in a classroom one day, she says, but, right now, she's right 250 00:17:17,049 --> 00:17:18,026 where she needs to be. 251 00:17:18,050 --> 00:17:22,336 MARCIA HOWARD: I think about the fight that we're fighting now, and it was my mother's 252 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:27,360 fight and my grandmother's fight. No one should rest until justice is served. 253 00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:33,630 The city killed a man. They did wrong. And they have an opportunity to make it right. 254 00:17:37,150 --> 00:17:38,256 That's what we're waiting for. 255 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,366 AMNA NAWAZ: Are you hopeful they will do what you think it will take to make it right? 256 00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:47,390 MARCIA HOWARD: Yes, I am. Where there's people, there's power. 257 00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:55,820 Fundamentally, we are the city, and the city is us. 258 00:17:56,150 --> 00:18:01,150 JUDY WOODRUFF: The murder of George Floyd ignited those enormous waves of anger, frustration 259 00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:05,756 and demands for change. 260 00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:10,526 But the movement was growing well before that, with the deaths of other Black people at the 261 00:18:10,550 --> 00:18:12,226 hands of the police. 262 00:18:12,250 --> 00:18:17,250 That included Michael Brown, who died in 2014 in Ferguson, Missouri, a suburb of St. Louis. 263 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,280 Yamiche Alcindor looks at what's changed since Brown's death and whether St. Louis can overcome 264 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,076 its long, fraught history around race. 265 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:34,100 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: It was a cloudy day on August 9, 2014, here in Ferguson, Missouri, when 266 00:18:35,210 --> 00:18:40,210 a Black unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, was shot and killed here on Canfield Drive by 267 00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:43,296 a white police officer, Darren Wilson. 268 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:48,066 Out of that, a protest movement grew that lasted months. They demanded that the officer 269 00:18:48,090 --> 00:18:52,606 be charged. Ultimately, the officer was not charged. 270 00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:57,630 Other changes did come. Ferguson got a new mayor and a new police chief. In St. Louis 271 00:18:57,820 --> 00:19:02,820 city, a new prosecutor, also a new mayor. But people want to see more. They hope that 272 00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:07,785 St. Louis, which has a history of racism and violence against Black people, that this city 273 00:19:07,809 --> 00:19:12,196 can learn lessons that may help the rest of the nation. 274 00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:17,146 It was the launching point of the Lewis and Clark expedition, the gateway to the West, 275 00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:22,170 the home of Budweiser and the Cardinals, St. Louis, a city steeped in American history. 276 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:27,006 But the long legacy of racism here continues to shape the city. 277 00:19:27,030 --> 00:19:28,688 DHATI KENNEDY, Son of East St. Louis Massacre Survivor: We're approaching Bond Avenue, where 278 00:19:28,712 --> 00:19:31,506 a lot of the Black families lived. 279 00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:35,926 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: In 1917, Dhati Kennedy's family was living on the other side of the 280 00:19:35,950 --> 00:19:40,950 Mississippi River in East St. Louis, Illinois. At the time, it was an industrial city experiencing 281 00:19:41,490 --> 00:19:44,556 tensions between Black and white residents. 282 00:19:44,580 --> 00:19:49,136 That year, Black laborers were recruited to work in one of the city's major factories 283 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,856 after the white workers went on strike. 284 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,747 DHATI KENNEDY: Rumors were spread that these Negroes are coming from the South, and they're 285 00:19:54,771 --> 00:19:57,746 going to take our jobs, they're going to steal our way of life. 286 00:19:57,770 --> 00:20:02,145 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: In July, that hostility turned deadly, and into one of the largest 287 00:20:02,169 --> 00:20:04,106 race riots in U.S. history. 288 00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:08,866 DHATI KENNEDY: White mobs moved into the neighborhoods, firebombed a lot of the houses. And they would 289 00:20:08,890 --> 00:20:13,466 stand around the house and wait for somebody to run out so they could shoot and kill them. 290 00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:15,916 If you were caught on the street, you were lynched. 291 00:20:15,940 --> 00:20:20,056 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Dhati's grandfather went missing during the massacre and was presumed 292 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:25,080 dead. But despite the police and mobs blocking two bridges to safety, the rest of the Kennedy 293 00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:26,507 family escaped. 294 00:20:26,531 --> 00:20:30,976 DHATI KENNEDY: My grandmother was able to get her family, my father, our uncles, and 295 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:36,000 all of them to safety across the Mississippi River on a raft that they built and fashioned 296 00:20:36,250 --> 00:20:39,236 out of burnt-out doors and everything wooden they could find. 297 00:20:39,260 --> 00:20:44,086 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Dhati says this legacy of dehumanizing and driving out Black people 298 00:20:44,110 --> 00:20:47,546 didn't end with what he calls the East St. Louis race war. 299 00:20:47,570 --> 00:20:52,570 Why do you think it's so important to keep that history alive, when we think about what 300 00:20:52,770 --> 00:20:57,635 happened in Ferguson, what happened to George Floyd, what's happening to African Americans 301 00:20:57,659 --> 00:20:58,926 and Black people all over this country? 302 00:20:58,950 --> 00:21:03,950 DHATI KENNEDY: Well, the massacre itself was fueled by a trope about Black men: They're 303 00:21:04,050 --> 00:21:09,050 rapists. They're thieves. They're murderers. They lie. They cheat. And they're lazy. 304 00:21:09,250 --> 00:21:13,275 That idea, in many, many different forms, still exists today. 305 00:21:13,299 --> 00:21:17,766 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: No one really knows just how many people died in the massacre here 306 00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:21,976 at East St. Louis. But for the people who were lucky enough to make it out, a legacy 307 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,076 of violence and racism followed them. 308 00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:30,906 Across the river, many made a new home in St. Louis in a neighborhood called Mill Creek 309 00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:31,906 Valley. 310 00:21:31,930 --> 00:21:32,907 WALTER JOHNSON, Author, "The Broken Heart of America: St. Louis and the Violent History 311 00:21:32,931 --> 00:21:34,996 of the United States": To me, it represents the depth of the history in St. Louis. 312 00:21:35,020 --> 00:21:39,426 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Harvard historian Walter Johnson is a Missouri native and author of 313 00:21:39,450 --> 00:21:44,450 the 2020 book "The Broken Heart of America: St. Louis and the Violent History of the United 314 00:21:44,830 --> 00:21:45,807 States." 315 00:21:45,831 --> 00:21:50,796 The book details the city's role as a center first of Native American removal and later 316 00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:55,820 of exploitation, violence, and the forced migration of Black people within the city 317 00:21:56,419 --> 00:21:57,926 and beyond. 318 00:21:57,950 --> 00:22:02,556 Following the massacre, Mill Creek Valley became a hub for Black homes, businesses and 319 00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:03,557 culture. 320 00:22:03,581 --> 00:22:08,580 WALTER JOHNSON: It's about 500 acres; 20,000 people lived there, 800 business and cultural 321 00:22:09,220 --> 00:22:14,220 institutions. Mill Creek Valley was destroyed by urban redevelopment and real estate speculation. 322 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,446 But I think they left five or six buildings standing. 323 00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:23,470 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: It's now filled with highways, municipal services and many empty lots. As 324 00:22:24,020 --> 00:22:28,786 Black people were cleared out of that neighborhood, many were forced north into the Pruitt-Igoe 325 00:22:28,810 --> 00:22:29,896 housing project. 326 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,696 WALTER JOHNSON: Pruitt-Igoe was one of the largest housing projects in the United States, 327 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,676 and certainly the most famous and the most notorious. 328 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:41,700 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Johnson took us to the site, where 33 11-story buildings once stood. It 329 00:22:42,441 --> 00:22:44,946 is now an overgrown lot. 330 00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:49,970 Pruitt-Igoe was advertised as safe, affordable housing for the city's working class and poor. 331 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,480 But Johnson says it was neglected almost immediately. Over the years, it became a place to unfairly 332 00:22:56,610 --> 00:22:59,486 target Black people through experimental policing. 333 00:22:59,510 --> 00:23:04,510 WALTER JOHNSON: The experiment was to pull over, to randomly target as many young Black 334 00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:10,730 people as they could, and then to identify those who they thought might become offenders 335 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,206 and arrest them on pretextuous charges. 336 00:23:15,230 --> 00:23:19,136 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: What you're describing then is racial profiling tied to housing. 337 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,137 WALTER JOHNSON: Absolutely. 338 00:23:20,161 --> 00:23:23,186 MAN: Raw sewage bubbles out of the ground like a malevolent spring. 339 00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:27,696 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: With a focus on policing, instead of maintenance, conditions at the 340 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,720 housing project deteriorated. And after just two decades of occupation, it was demolished. 341 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,400 Once again, Black people were pushed further north, some beyond city limits, to Ferguson, 342 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,377 Missouri. 343 00:23:43,401 --> 00:23:48,400 Walter Johnson argues, Black people here have been regularly exploited through disinvestment 344 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,600 and police harassment in the form of fines and fees, all while major tax subsidies are 345 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,716 given to corporations in this community, like Emerson Electric. 346 00:23:57,740 --> 00:24:02,546 WALTER JOHNSON: How is it that you have a community, a city, where the police are farming 347 00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:07,570 Black motorists for traffic tickets, when you have a $24 billion corporation in the 348 00:24:08,001 --> 00:24:08,977 city limits? 349 00:24:09,001 --> 00:24:09,977 PROTESTER: Hands up! 350 00:24:10,001 --> 00:24:10,977 PROTESTERS: Don't shoot! 351 00:24:11,001 --> 00:24:11,978 PROTESTER: Hands up! 352 00:24:12,002 --> 00:24:13,015 PROTESTERS: Don't shoot! 353 00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:17,516 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: In 2014, those decades of segregation, police harassment, and violence 354 00:24:17,540 --> 00:24:22,540 against Black people came to a head when Michael Brown was killed by officer Darren Wilson. 355 00:24:23,529 --> 00:24:28,529 Protesters, activists, neighbors poured into the streets, demanding change. The protests 356 00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:30,486 lasted months. 357 00:24:30,510 --> 00:24:32,246 PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace! 358 00:24:32,270 --> 00:24:35,885 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: But what has actually changed since then? 359 00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:36,886 MAN: Get back! 360 00:24:36,910 --> 00:24:41,236 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Five years ago, the Department of Justice entered into a consent decree with 361 00:24:41,260 --> 00:24:46,260 the city of Ferguson. It's an attempt to reform the police department's policies and practices. 362 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:52,040 As of 2019, traffic stops of Black people are down nearly 50 percent from 2014, and 363 00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:58,450 ticketing of Black residents is down 60 percent. And over the past five years, progressive 364 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,816 Black candidates won a handful of races, most recently for St. Louis mayor. 365 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,806 TISHAURA JONES, Mayor of St. Louis, Missouri: I, Tishaura O. Jones... 366 00:25:08,830 --> 00:25:13,326 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: A native of North Side St. Louis, Tishaura Jones is the city's first 367 00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:14,446 Black woman mayor. 368 00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:18,666 TISHAURA JONES: The activists see this election as their chance to finally have someone on 369 00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:23,316 the inside that will not only work with them and listen to them, but also implement some 370 00:25:23,340 --> 00:25:25,626 of the strategies that they have been calling for. 371 00:25:25,650 --> 00:25:28,716 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: One of the people who kept that momentum going is Kayla Reed. 372 00:25:28,740 --> 00:25:31,796 KAYLA REED, Action St. Louis: We're still dealing with and learning the names of folks 373 00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:36,820 who are being killed by police. We're still seeing most instances of that not resulting 374 00:25:37,770 --> 00:25:39,785 in any sort of charges or conviction. 375 00:25:39,809 --> 00:25:43,525 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: In the months following Michael Brown's killing, Reed threw herself 376 00:25:43,549 --> 00:25:48,549 into organizing. She eventually started Action St. Louis, a grassroots group that advocates 377 00:25:49,290 --> 00:25:51,216 for racial justice. 378 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,336 What's the connection you see between Michael Brown and George Floyd? 379 00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:00,360 KAYLA REED: The movement that was sparked in Ferguson, I see remnants of it and legacy 380 00:26:00,450 --> 00:26:05,450 of it and continuations of it and new iterations of it happening in these other cities. 381 00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:09,876 And I think that we're still in that movement. We're still perfecting the demands. We're 382 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,886 still perfecting the policies. And we're going after power now. 383 00:26:12,910 --> 00:26:16,905 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: She is confident, though, that these new political leaders are a helpful 384 00:26:16,929 --> 00:26:18,346 step in that transformation. 385 00:26:18,370 --> 00:26:23,265 KAYLA REED: The win is not representation. The win is action. It's not just getting someone 386 00:26:23,289 --> 00:26:27,136 in the seat. It's ensuring that, once they're in their seat, that they do the things that 387 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,755 we know are going to transform our communities. 388 00:26:28,779 --> 00:26:33,026 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: In the month that Mayor Jones has been in office, she's defunded the 389 00:26:33,050 --> 00:26:38,050 Workhouse, a medium-security facility long criticized for its inhumane conditions. And 390 00:26:39,020 --> 00:26:44,020 she reallocated 2 percent of the police department's budget to social workers, counselors, and 391 00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:45,775 a housing fund. 392 00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:49,946 It's a move that some have criticized, as the city continues to struggle with violent 393 00:26:49,970 --> 00:26:50,947 crime. 394 00:26:50,971 --> 00:26:54,155 WOMAN: Homicide numbers in the city of St. Louis paint a bleak picture. 395 00:26:54,179 --> 00:26:58,096 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Last year, the city saw its highest murder rate in 50 years. 396 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:02,606 TISHAURA JONES: Number one, we need to declare gun violence as a public health crisis, but, 397 00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:06,796 also, crime and violence doesn't stop at our borders. We have to look at the entire region, 398 00:27:06,820 --> 00:27:10,765 which also includes our neighbors to the east in East St. Louis, our neighbors to the west 399 00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:12,546 and north in St. Louis County. 400 00:27:12,570 --> 00:27:17,265 We have to bring all the people to the table, because our destinies are linked and shared, 401 00:27:17,289 --> 00:27:19,046 and we have to address this as such. 402 00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:23,706 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: But in the years since Michael Brown's death, police killings in St. Louis 403 00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:25,686 haven't gone down. 404 00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:30,710 One report says that, of the 100 largest cities, St. Louis police have killed the most people 405 00:27:30,919 --> 00:27:35,919 per capita since 2013. Mayor Jones' 13-year-old son is a reminder of just how much work still 406 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,937 needs to be done. 407 00:27:38,961 --> 00:27:42,496 TISHAURA JONES: We were having a conversation about what the mayor does. And when I got 408 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,106 to the police, he says: "Oh, well, mommy will be over the police?" 409 00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:46,107 I said: "Yes." 410 00:27:46,131 --> 00:27:48,116 He said: "Well, that means I will be safe." 411 00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:53,140 And it hit me like a ton of bricks, because it gave him a false sense of security, in 412 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,765 my opinion, that he thought he would be safe because I became mayor. 413 00:27:56,789 --> 00:28:01,446 KAYLA REED: St. Louis has a high poverty rate, St. Louis has a high violence rate, and St. 414 00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:06,016 Louis has a high police violence rate. We have to address the fact that, where violence 415 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:11,040 happens, there's a lack of resources, there's historical neglect, and there's complete disillusionment 416 00:28:11,550 --> 00:28:12,527 with the system. 417 00:28:12,551 --> 00:28:17,550 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Jones is hoping a $500 million infusion of federal stimulus money for things 418 00:28:17,710 --> 00:28:22,710 like housing, broadband and work force development will also help address the lack of resources. 419 00:28:23,730 --> 00:28:28,730 She and others find hope in St. Louis' long history of activism. Throughout the 20th century, 420 00:28:32,540 --> 00:28:37,540 Black demonstrators led protests over fair pay, working conditions and hiring practices. 421 00:28:38,380 --> 00:28:43,380 Dhati Kennedy believes, to be successful today, there are important lessons from that past. 422 00:28:43,799 --> 00:28:48,396 DHATI KENNEDY: It just can't be legislative or just political. It has to be grassroots, 423 00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:52,405 but it can't just be grassroots. It's going to have to be a lot of things to come together. 424 00:28:52,429 --> 00:28:55,996 Put all of those cogs in the wheel together, and we can move forward. 425 00:28:56,020 --> 00:29:00,716 YAMICHE ALCINDOR: And to those seeking change here in St. Louis and around the country, 426 00:29:00,740 --> 00:29:03,256 Kayla Reed says it will take a lifetime commitment. 427 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:08,280 KAYLA REED: This is a long-term work plan that we all have to commit to. There is real 428 00:29:08,631 --> 00:29:12,946 human cost to getting this right. And we have to get this right, because we're going to 429 00:29:12,970 --> 00:29:16,076 keep losing people if we don't. 430 00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:21,100 JUDY WOODRUFF: When George Floyd died last May, there had already been another high-profile 431 00:29:22,510 --> 00:29:27,510 police killing in Louisville, Kentucky, one that gave rise to protests as well. 432 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:33,500 The case highlighted that city's longstanding racial divisions, and became a national rallying 433 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,866 cry in its own right. 434 00:29:36,890 --> 00:29:38,076 John Yang reports. 435 00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:43,100 JOHN YANG: It was about 12:40 on the morning of March 13, 2020, that Louisville police 436 00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:49,630 used a battering ram to burst into an apartment in this complex belonging to a 26-year-old 437 00:29:50,790 --> 00:29:54,326 emergency room technician named Breonna Taylor. 438 00:29:54,350 --> 00:29:59,066 The officers were executing a no-knock warrant, but the warrant wasn't for Taylor or anyone 439 00:29:59,090 --> 00:30:04,090 else who was in the apartment. Taylor's boyfriend thought someone was breaking in. He grabbed 440 00:30:04,510 --> 00:30:06,846 his gun, fired a single shot. 441 00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:11,870 The police fired back. When it was all over, Taylor lay dying on her hallway floor, shot 442 00:30:13,169 --> 00:30:15,025 several times. 443 00:30:15,049 --> 00:30:20,049 In the year since, Louisville has grieved, protested and debated policing changes. One 444 00:30:21,660 --> 00:30:25,655 thing it hasn't done, many residents say, is heal. 445 00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:30,679 After a long investigation by the state attorney general, no one was charged with Breonna Taylor's 446 00:30:31,670 --> 00:30:36,670 death. But now the federal Justice Department is investigating the Louisville police, looking 447 00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:41,710 to see if there's been a pattern and practice of discrimination and abuse. Many residents 448 00:30:42,270 --> 00:30:44,505 here say it's about time. 449 00:30:44,529 --> 00:30:46,466 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT, Community Activist: You two come up here. 450 00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:49,765 JOHN YANG: Shameka Parrish-Wright may feel the weight of Louisville on her shoulders 451 00:30:49,789 --> 00:30:54,436 when she wakes up in the morning, but her days start with her duties as a mom. 452 00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:58,306 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: All right, I got a few meetings, and then I will be back. 453 00:30:58,330 --> 00:31:03,016 JOHN YANG: She's spent years working as an advocate for criminal justice reform. But 454 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,375 the killing of Breonna Taylor changed everything for Parrish-Wright and for Louisville. 455 00:31:07,399 --> 00:31:11,606 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: I have three daughters in their 20s. One of them went to school with 456 00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:16,630 Breonna. And so, for them, it hit home. And the first night of the protests, we were at 457 00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:22,135 my table. And we said... I said, "This could have been any of you." 458 00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:27,159 JOHN YANG: As cities across the country rose up to protest police brutality and systemic 459 00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:33,020 racism last summer, she felt called to lead the movement in her city. 460 00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:38,110 In May 2020, just days after George Floyd's death, Taylor family attorneys released 911 461 00:31:40,919 --> 00:31:45,919 tapes from the night of Taylor's death, sparking protests over what many Black residents said 462 00:31:46,420 --> 00:31:50,375 was a long history of police misconduct and racial profiling. 463 00:31:50,399 --> 00:31:54,716 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: They couldn't drag her down and say, oh, she had warrants, oh, 464 00:31:54,740 --> 00:31:57,645 she was this criminal, and they couldn't do that to her. 465 00:31:57,669 --> 00:32:02,515 And so I think that that's what invigorated people to say, if we let this happen to her, 466 00:32:02,539 --> 00:32:07,145 and she's supposed to be safe at home, she's an essential worker, and she dies in her home, 467 00:32:07,169 --> 00:32:08,346 then none of us are safe. 468 00:32:08,370 --> 00:32:10,916 And then George Floyd sent us overboard. 469 00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:15,940 JOHN YANG: Parrish-Wright has been a guiding force in this downtown park, the protests' 470 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,337 center of gravity. 471 00:32:17,361 --> 00:32:20,785 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: We built this as a place for people to bring all that energy. 472 00:32:20,809 --> 00:32:25,809 JOHN YANG: Officially named Jefferson Square Park, it sits directly across from Louisville's 473 00:32:26,490 --> 00:32:27,467 Metro Hall. 474 00:32:27,491 --> 00:32:30,785 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: We called it Injustice Square because it was... it's surrounded by 475 00:32:30,809 --> 00:32:32,676 where justice is supposed to happen. 476 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:37,700 JOHN YANG: There is no justice, Parrish-Wright says, as long as the three officers who fired 477 00:32:37,940 --> 00:32:42,296 their weapons that night are free, though one of them was indicted for shooting into 478 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:43,405 her neighbor's apartment. 479 00:32:43,429 --> 00:32:46,895 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: They're showing the world how they treat us as citizens. 480 00:32:46,919 --> 00:32:51,785 JOHN YANG: Some protesters say their experience with police over the last year only underscores 481 00:32:51,809 --> 00:32:52,786 the need for change. 482 00:32:52,810 --> 00:32:57,275 ARI TULAY, Protester: I remember the police officers and the SWAT just coming at us. 483 00:32:57,299 --> 00:33:02,086 JOHN YANG: Ari Tulay was 19 years old when she joined the early protests last May. 484 00:33:02,110 --> 00:33:06,296 ARI TULAY: As soon as we reached the blockade, we stopped. And that's when the chemical agents 485 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,566 started to be fired, the rubber bullets started to be fired. 486 00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:14,590 And it was turned into a war zone. About 100 of us were arrested that night. And then I 487 00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:20,450 was one of the last five to be released about 30 hours later. So, it was an intense experience. 488 00:33:21,649 --> 00:33:23,676 I mean, jail is incredibly dehumanizing. 489 00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:28,700 JOHN YANG: But Tulay found humanity among the crowd in jail that night, an experience, 490 00:33:29,290 --> 00:33:31,916 she says, that moved her to keep protesting. 491 00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:35,546 ARI TULAY: There needed to be a disruption to the way things were to be able to have 492 00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:36,547 people see us. 493 00:33:36,571 --> 00:33:41,570 But, I mean, I always think anger is painted as a negative in protest movements and just 494 00:33:41,649 --> 00:33:46,649 in the Black community, that we're not allowed to be angry, because that can be misconstrued. 495 00:33:46,919 --> 00:33:51,919 But it was... it was... it's anger because we know that there's a reality in which this 496 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,457 doesn't have to happen. 497 00:33:53,481 --> 00:33:57,716 JOHN YANG: Anger at leaders like Greg Fischer, mayor of Louisville since 2010. 498 00:33:57,740 --> 00:34:01,476 GREG FISCHER, Mayor of Louisville, Kentucky: I think that history will show that we have 499 00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:06,500 done most everything we possibly could toward moving toward truth and transparency, toward 500 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:10,076 justice, within the power that I have. 501 00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:14,696 JOHN YANG: Louisville banned the kind of no-knock warrants that gave police license to break 502 00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:19,720 into Breonna Taylor's home as she lay sleeping, and the Metro Council also established a civilian 503 00:34:20,339 --> 00:34:23,916 review board to investigate police misconduct. 504 00:34:23,940 --> 00:34:28,125 But the state legislature hasn't given it the power to compel testimony and evidence 505 00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:33,135 from anyone beyond Metro government employees, something both activists and Fischer say the 506 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,066 board needs to effectively investigate cases. 507 00:34:36,090 --> 00:34:40,256 GREG FISCHER: I'm disappointed that didn't happen here this past session. The public 508 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,186 wants to know more about what's taking place with police investigations. There's just not 509 00:34:45,210 --> 00:34:48,706 enough transparency. And when there's not transparency, there's not trust. 510 00:34:48,730 --> 00:34:49,707 Chief. 511 00:34:49,731 --> 00:34:54,476 JOHN YANG: In January, many found that trust further tested when Fischer appointed Erika 512 00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:59,500 Shields the new police chief. She had quit as Atlanta's police chief after video of an 513 00:34:59,940 --> 00:35:03,656 officer fatally shooting a Black man, Rayshard Brooks, went viral. 514 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,736 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: I was like, wait a minute. She didn't she left. She quit with 515 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,036 what happened with Rayshard Brooks. And she's coming here to heal and fix us? 516 00:35:11,060 --> 00:35:14,186 GREG FISCHER: Well, I can understand why people would have that concern. And I knew it was 517 00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:16,906 going to be a controversial decision. 518 00:35:16,930 --> 00:35:21,930 But Chief Shields was so far the... above everybody else in terms of her being a candidate 519 00:35:21,970 --> 00:35:25,976 for this job, that it was an easy decision to make. And I think she's won over most of 520 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:26,977 her critics. 521 00:35:27,001 --> 00:35:32,000 JOHN YANG: But a year since protests erupted in Louisville, critics remain of Fischer, 522 00:35:32,290 --> 00:35:37,290 of Shields, and of a police force that some residents say continues to abuse its power. 523 00:35:38,589 --> 00:35:42,956 These tensions aren't just about police and the community. Protesters say those issues 524 00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:47,980 tie into centuries of racist policies that shaped the very development of the city. To 525 00:35:48,730 --> 00:35:53,016 see the results, drive west on Muhammad Ali Boulevard, a main thoroughfare. 526 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,416 ARI TULAY: There's something called the 9th Street Divide in Louisville, and on one side 527 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,726 of 9th Street, your life expectancy can be seen to be 15 years higher, less likely to 528 00:36:00,750 --> 00:36:02,386 have asthma, less likely to have eczema. 529 00:36:02,410 --> 00:36:05,546 And on the other side of 9th Street, that's known as the West End, and you're going to 530 00:36:05,570 --> 00:36:10,570 have a lower life expectancy, higher rate of heart disease. So, growing up around that, 531 00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:15,876 it's a visual difference. It's obvious. And it makes you then question the motive. 532 00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:20,900 JOHN YANG: It was all by design. A 1914 ordinance barred Black Louisville residents from occupying 533 00:36:23,110 --> 00:36:26,716 houses on majority-white blocks, and the other way around. 534 00:36:26,740 --> 00:36:31,740 Then, in the 1930s, so-called redlining maps color-coded city neighborhoods based on how 535 00:36:33,020 --> 00:36:38,020 desirable lenders considered them for investment. Desirable usually meant white. Black and immigrant 536 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,456 areas were typically given the lowest grades. 537 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,266 Louisville's history of redlining has concentrated Black residents into West End neighborhoods 538 00:36:48,290 --> 00:36:53,290 like this one called Russell. In the early part of the 20th century, this was a thriving 539 00:36:53,940 --> 00:36:58,940 hub of Black business and culture. But decades of disinvestment have driven many residents 540 00:36:59,810 --> 00:37:01,055 into poverty. 541 00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:06,079 Today, the Black homeownership rate in Louisville is half of what it is for white residents. 542 00:37:06,580 --> 00:37:10,486 KEVIN DUNLAP, Executive Director, REBOUND, Inc.: All of these vacant lots didn't exist. 543 00:37:10,510 --> 00:37:12,406 JOHN YANG: Kevin Dunlap was born in Russell. 544 00:37:12,430 --> 00:37:17,430 KEVIN DUNLAP: I used to ride my bicycle down this street. I mean, it was a thriving area 545 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,726 growing up as a child. Over time, just seeing what the transition has been, it's very disheartening 546 00:37:22,750 --> 00:37:23,727 to see. 547 00:37:23,751 --> 00:37:28,750 JOHN YANG: Dunlap is the executive director of REBOUND, the nonprofit housing arm of Louisville's 548 00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:30,476 Urban League. 549 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:35,496 He points to government urban renewal policies in the 1950s and '60s that resulted in the 550 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,766 demolition of majority-Black areas. 551 00:37:37,790 --> 00:37:42,256 KEVIN DUNLAP: You began to see people begin to move out or were displaced as a result 552 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,257 of urban renewal. 553 00:37:43,281 --> 00:37:48,280 But as you begin to start buying up property and acquiring property, there was no need 554 00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:53,856 for other people, didn't want to stay next to undeveloped property. And it kind of wiped 555 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,396 out the business sector that was part of the heart of the African American community. 556 00:37:58,420 --> 00:38:02,305 JOHN YANG: Dunlap's group is working with the Metro Louisville government to increase 557 00:38:02,329 --> 00:38:07,329 Black homeownership in the West End. City officials acknowledge Louisville needs more 558 00:38:07,390 --> 00:38:10,436 than 30,000 additional units of affordable housing. 559 00:38:10,460 --> 00:38:12,756 JECOREY ARTHUR, Louisville Metro Council Member: In the city of Louisville, we have a housing 560 00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:13,757 crisis. 561 00:38:13,781 --> 00:38:18,780 JOHN YANG: Like Dunlap, Jecorey Arthur was born and raised in the West End. Last year, 562 00:38:19,420 --> 00:38:23,776 at 28, he was elected Louisville's youngest member of the Metro Council. 563 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,226 JECOREY ARTHUR: When you can't afford to live here in the neighborhood with the highest 564 00:38:27,250 --> 00:38:30,916 rate of poverty, you can't afford to live anywhere. And to a certain extent, you could 565 00:38:30,940 --> 00:38:33,446 argue you're not supposed to afford to live at all. 566 00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:38,196 You have really got three options. You could be houseless in a junkyard, you can be imprisoned 567 00:38:38,220 --> 00:38:41,136 in a prison yard, or you will be dead in a graveyard. 568 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:46,160 JOHN YANG: Nachand Trabue is a fourth-generation resident of Smoketown, a historically Black 569 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,536 neighborhood just southeast of downtown. 570 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,065 NACHAND TRABUE, Bates Community Development Corporation: You have 22 percent Black population 571 00:38:52,089 --> 00:38:57,089 .You have 2.4 percent that are business owners. We should have 10 times more business owners. 572 00:38:58,329 --> 00:39:03,329 We don't have access to capital. We don't have access to resources. And that's the missing 573 00:39:04,349 --> 00:39:08,476 piece that we're not able to build is the generational wealth piece. 574 00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:13,456 JOHN YANG: Trabue says housing disparities touch so many other aspects of life in the 575 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,480 neighborhood. Lower-income areas like Smoketown and Russell have higher crimes rates, which 576 00:39:18,859 --> 00:39:20,536 means more policing. 577 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,560 Do you think it's a conversation and a worry that white mothers on the East Side of Louisville 578 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,377 have? 579 00:39:27,401 --> 00:39:31,936 NACHAND TRABUE: No, no. No, no, no, no. They don't have this type of worry. Our worries 580 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,586 are different. They're worried about what soccer game are they getting ready to go to. 581 00:39:35,610 --> 00:39:40,610 And I'm worried about, can my son even go to the bus stop without getting mistakenly 582 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,926 identified as somebody that he's not and getting shot and killed? 583 00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:51,016 JOHN YANG: Jecorey Arthur doesn't want to wait for the slow work of police reform to 584 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,746 better Louisville's Black neighborhoods. 585 00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:56,956 JECOREY ARTHUR: As long as we stand in Russell that has the highest percentage of poverty, 586 00:39:56,980 --> 00:40:01,980 you are going to have the highest percentages of crime. Thus, you're going to call who whenever 587 00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:04,806 those crimes are committed? You are going to call the police. 588 00:40:04,830 --> 00:40:09,830 And in some cases, they escalate those situations. So, I'm less worried about the police, and 589 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:12,406 more worried about addressing poverty. 590 00:40:12,430 --> 00:40:16,986 JOHN YANG: Shameka Parrish-Wright wants to tackle some of those root causes in a new 591 00:40:17,010 --> 00:40:22,010 role. She's running for mayor, seeking to channel the passion of the protest movement 592 00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:24,466 toward meaningful reform. 593 00:40:24,490 --> 00:40:28,805 Meanwhile, the long search for justice in Louisville is just beginning. 594 00:40:28,829 --> 00:40:32,317 SHAMEKA PARRISH-WRIGHT: We haven't seen the accountability that Breonna deserves, that 595 00:40:32,341 --> 00:40:36,916 our city deserves. But we are starting to see that people are waking up. And I don't 596 00:40:36,940 --> 00:40:41,940 think people are ever going to go back to sleep. 597 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,800 JUDY WOODRUFF: The three cities we profiled tonight, Minneapolis, St. Louis, and Louisville, 598 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,760 have been on the knife's edge when it comes to policing and broader racial inequities. 599 00:41:03,010 --> 00:41:06,766 But there are many places in America grappling with similar questions. 600 00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:09,986 We look at all this now with three guests. 601 00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:15,010 DeRay McKesson is co-founder of Campaign Zero, an organization aimed at ending police violence. 602 00:41:17,069 --> 00:41:22,069 Margaret Huang is president and CEO of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights 603 00:41:22,490 --> 00:41:27,490 organization. And Rosa Brooks is a Georgetown University law professor who five years ago 604 00:41:28,210 --> 00:41:33,210 became a reserve police officer in Washington, D.C., to try to better understand the profession. 605 00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:39,740 Brooks writes of that experience in her new book, "Tangled Up in Blue." 606 00:41:39,790 --> 00:41:43,815 And I want to thank you all for being here with us. We appreciate it. 607 00:41:43,839 --> 00:41:46,446 And, DeRay McKesson, to you first. 608 00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:51,470 This country has been dealing with race and all of the issues around it from its very 609 00:41:53,590 --> 00:41:58,590 beginning. How does the death of George Floyd fit into that complicated history? 610 00:41:59,290 --> 00:42:01,906 DERAY MCKESSON, Co-Founder, Campaign Zero: You know, in so many ways, we have been here 611 00:42:01,930 --> 00:42:04,776 before. One conviction doesn't change the demand for justice. 612 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,426 And remember that the police kill, on average, 1,100 people a year, and the highest number 613 00:42:09,450 --> 00:42:14,450 of convictions for this set of officers ever in a given year is 11. So, when you look at 614 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,476 the numbers, the numbers continue to be bad. The police killed more people in 2020 than 615 00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:22,106 every single year of data we have except for 2018. 616 00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:27,130 And, already in 2021, the police have killed over 400 people. So, I do think that the death 617 00:42:28,301 --> 00:42:33,046 of George Floyd was an awakening, a reawakening for a lot of people, and helped them understand 618 00:42:33,070 --> 00:42:37,236 that this is systemic, this is not just in one city, but this is happening all over the 619 00:42:37,260 --> 00:42:38,237 country. 620 00:42:38,261 --> 00:42:41,306 Now the next step is, how do we make sure that we get results that actually make the 621 00:42:41,330 --> 00:42:42,346 problem go away? 622 00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:47,370 JUDY WOODRUFF: Margaret Huang, as somebody who looks at human rights broadly and focuses 623 00:42:47,619 --> 00:42:52,286 very much on racial injustice, what do you think the country's learned since the death 624 00:42:52,310 --> 00:42:54,446 of George Floyd and the reaction to it? 625 00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:57,726 MARGARET HUANG, President, Southern Poverty Law Center: Judy, the system of policing that 626 00:42:57,750 --> 00:43:02,606 we have in this country actually started at the beginning of the founding of our country 627 00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:05,676 as a slave patrol system. 628 00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:10,045 Police officers were created to track down slaves and to bring them back to their owners 629 00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:15,069 in the Deep South. And it's why today we still see remnants of the origins of that system 630 00:43:16,490 --> 00:43:21,490 in the way that police are trained and the way that police are responding to situations 631 00:43:22,130 --> 00:43:23,946 on the ground. 632 00:43:23,970 --> 00:43:28,516 That's why it's so important that we reckon with the racial history of our country, that 633 00:43:28,540 --> 00:43:33,540 we understand how white supremacy undergirds all of our institutions and our structures 634 00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:37,266 of governance and law enforcement. 635 00:43:37,290 --> 00:43:40,266 If we don't reckon with that, we're not going to be able to move forward. 636 00:43:40,290 --> 00:43:45,290 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Rosa Brooks, you're a - - you teach law. That's your career. But 637 00:43:46,131 --> 00:43:51,131 you did take time out to study policing. You became a reserve police officer, as we said, 638 00:43:53,860 --> 00:43:56,726 and spent time on the beat. 639 00:43:56,750 --> 00:44:00,866 What did you learn about policing in that period? You said at one point you learned 640 00:44:00,890 --> 00:44:03,176 how hard it is to be a cop. What did that mean? 641 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,676 ROSA BROOKS, Author, "Tangled Up in Blue: Policing the American City": We pile so many 642 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:10,700 contradictory tasks on police right now, in part because we have essentially in most parts 643 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,196 of the United States eviscerated other social services. 644 00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:19,220 So, at the moment, we are expecting police to enforce civil traffic regulations, to be 645 00:44:20,930 --> 00:44:25,926 mediators, to be social workers, to be medics, to do all kinds of things that really do not 646 00:44:25,950 --> 00:44:29,376 and should not require an armed response. 647 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:34,400 And a lot of those situations end up being really fraught, and for all the reasons that 648 00:44:35,050 --> 00:44:38,606 DeRay and Margaret have already highlighted. The more you have contacts and enforcement 649 00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:43,335 contacts between armed police and members of the public, the more possibility you have 650 00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:45,596 for things to go badly, fatally wrong. 651 00:44:45,620 --> 00:44:50,620 JUDY WOODRUFF: And given that, DeRay, what are some things that would make a difference 652 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:52,657 in this country? 653 00:44:52,681 --> 00:44:57,206 I mean, your organization looks at it every day. What would make the most difference, 654 00:44:57,230 --> 00:45:01,946 and what do you see in states that are already moving to try to make changes? 655 00:45:01,970 --> 00:45:04,469 DERAY MCKESSON: You know, one of the biggest misconceptions is that people like, the police 656 00:45:04,493 --> 00:45:05,470 are above the law. 657 00:45:05,494 --> 00:45:09,736 And you're like, they're actually not above the law, I would say. It's that they actually 658 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,266 just have their own set of laws. Like, that's a part of the problem, that it's just a completely 659 00:45:13,290 --> 00:45:14,506 different standard for the police. 660 00:45:14,530 --> 00:45:18,106 So, we look across the country. There are 20 states that have what we call a police 661 00:45:18,130 --> 00:45:21,996 officer bill of rights that are state-level protections that essentially protect the police 662 00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:22,997 from accountability. 663 00:45:23,021 --> 00:45:26,656 So, like, in California, the law says that any investigation of an officer that lasts 664 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,606 more than a year can never result in discipline, regardless of the outcome. That doesn't make 665 00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:31,607 sense. 666 00:45:31,631 --> 00:45:35,716 In Louisiana, the law says that officers who engage in misconduct get 30 days before they 667 00:45:35,740 --> 00:45:39,686 can even be asked any question. Maryland is actually the first state that ever had one 668 00:45:39,710 --> 00:45:43,716 of those laws and, importantly, this year, the first state to repeal such a law. 669 00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:48,740 So, there is progress happening. There is hope. The use of force policies matter. Restricting 670 00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:54,306 no-knock raids matter. Police unions have a lot of power. And breaking that power, so 671 00:45:54,330 --> 00:45:59,055 that we don't inhibit rules around accountability, is actually a really big deal. So, those are 672 00:45:59,079 --> 00:46:00,056 some of the things. 673 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,136 And the George Floyd Act, there are some good things that are in it. And I know that Cory 674 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,575 Booker's team and a host of other people are working on revisions. So I think that the 675 00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:12,295 next set that we see will have even more of the demands that have risen up from community 676 00:46:12,319 --> 00:46:13,466 over the past year. 677 00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:17,496 JUDY WOODRUFF: Margaret Huang, as you listen to this, as you listen to the remedies that 678 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,520 are out there, whether they are enacted or not, which ones do you see making the most 679 00:46:23,930 --> 00:46:24,907 difference? 680 00:46:24,931 --> 00:46:28,766 MARGARET HUANG: Judy, I think one of the most important things to do is to actually acknowledge 681 00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:33,790 the history of the Confederacy and to put it away for once... once and for all. 682 00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:40,349 In this country, there are still more than 1,700 symbols of the Confederacy monuments, 683 00:46:41,980 --> 00:46:46,980 statues, buildings named after Confederate generals. These, every day, are a signal to 684 00:46:48,420 --> 00:46:52,606 people of color, and particularly to Black people in this country, that they're still 685 00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:54,065 not equal. 686 00:46:54,089 --> 00:46:58,996 And if we're going to make this change happen, we have to eliminate the symbols that perpetuate 687 00:46:59,020 --> 00:47:01,556 the undergirding structural racism that is around. 688 00:47:01,580 --> 00:47:06,580 JUDY WOODRUFF: Rosa Brooks, connect that to what you see inside the police, and how they 689 00:47:09,790 --> 00:47:14,790 think about what their job is every single day in this country. 690 00:47:15,470 --> 00:47:19,636 ROSA BROOKS: I think police are confused. They're as confused as the rest of us. 691 00:47:19,660 --> 00:47:24,660 A lot of people join policing because they want to help people. They often were crime 692 00:47:24,890 --> 00:47:29,626 victims themselves or close to someone who is a crime victim. But the job makes them 693 00:47:29,650 --> 00:47:34,516 quite cynical, in part because you're seeing people often in the worst moments of their 694 00:47:34,540 --> 00:47:36,856 lives. They're angry. They're distressed, et cetera. 695 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:41,880 It can lead police officers to feel like there's nothing much good in humanity. And that's 696 00:47:43,729 --> 00:47:47,976 - - that cynicism, I think, is a reason that suicide kills more police officers each year 697 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,466 than every other cause combined. 698 00:47:50,490 --> 00:47:54,026 I think, also, police officers, like the rest of America, are really struggling. And, in 699 00:47:54,050 --> 00:47:58,947 Washington, D.C., for instance, where we do have a majority-Black police department, where 700 00:47:58,971 --> 00:48:03,466 some of the types of reforms and changes that DeRay was talking about have improved the 701 00:48:03,490 --> 00:48:08,315 department significantly in the last 20 years, we have a lot of officers who are really, 702 00:48:08,339 --> 00:48:12,846 I think, struggling, because they want to be doing things that are good, but they recognize 703 00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:17,756 that they're caught up in a system that in all kinds of ways does perpetuate racial injustice. 704 00:48:17,780 --> 00:48:22,780 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, DeRay, coming back to you on that point, what message do you want 705 00:48:23,130 --> 00:48:28,130 to send to police... individual police officers about how they see their job and how they 706 00:48:30,910 --> 00:48:33,036 treat all Americans? 707 00:48:33,060 --> 00:48:37,156 DERAY MCKESSON: Yes, I... in some ways, I don't think this is really an issue about 708 00:48:37,180 --> 00:48:38,157 the individuals. 709 00:48:38,181 --> 00:48:41,726 I'm mindful that the individuals do make choices, right? So, when the police say this is hard, 710 00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:45,786 it's like, you choose to kill somebody. You choose to harm people. Like, that's a choice. 711 00:48:45,810 --> 00:48:50,025 But I'm also mindful that we need to move away from policing as a response to all crisis 712 00:48:50,049 --> 00:48:54,726 - - all crises or conflicts in communities, right? So, when I hear people say police now, 713 00:48:54,750 --> 00:48:58,166 I just swap that out with the phrase person with a gun, because that's really what people 714 00:48:58,190 --> 00:48:59,167 mean. 715 00:48:59,191 --> 00:49:02,146 And it's like, do you need a person with a gun to respond to somebody with suicidal ideation? 716 00:49:02,170 --> 00:49:06,526 You don't. Do you need a person with a gun to be the person that tells you that you don't 717 00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:10,065 have your tail light on? Like, you don't, right? 718 00:49:10,089 --> 00:49:12,827 The police actually are the first people to tell us that they're doing too much, they're 719 00:49:12,851 --> 00:49:16,016 not social workers, they're not... they're the first. And the moment that we agree with 720 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,845 them and say, cool, let's move away from policing and go to preventative work or social services 721 00:49:20,869 --> 00:49:25,869 or other interventions in conflict that are not people with guns, then they freak out. 722 00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:28,686 And I think that we actually just have to normalize this understanding that there are 723 00:49:28,710 --> 00:49:32,876 a host of ways to deal with conflict that are not calling people with guns, which is 724 00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:33,877 what the police are. 725 00:49:33,901 --> 00:49:37,427 ROSA BROOKS: And the one place where I would disagree slightly with DeRay is, I think it 726 00:49:37,451 --> 00:49:42,451 is possible to enlist police officers themselves in being part of that change, because I think, 727 00:49:43,339 --> 00:49:47,226 when you shift the conversation from, we just want to take away your resources, but leave 728 00:49:47,250 --> 00:49:51,436 you doing exactly the same things you're doing now, which makes officers go out, ow, whoa, 729 00:49:51,460 --> 00:49:55,936 that doesn't work, and change that conversation to what do you do now that you don't think 730 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,815 you ought to be doing, that you're not good at? 731 00:49:57,839 --> 00:50:02,206 What do you do now that is not effective, because there aren't other city services that 732 00:50:02,230 --> 00:50:06,416 can... that can be there and be supportive of what you do? You get a really different 733 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,417 conversation. 734 00:50:07,441 --> 00:50:11,805 And I think it is possible to move away from the conversation that leaves cops feeling 735 00:50:11,829 --> 00:50:15,676 defensive and towards one that leaves them feeling like, yes, that's a good point. If 736 00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:20,700 we shrink the kinds of things we do, we could actually... we could actually have less money 737 00:50:20,809 --> 00:50:22,086 and we could be more effective. 738 00:50:22,110 --> 00:50:23,756 So I don't think it's impossible. 739 00:50:23,780 --> 00:50:28,780 That said, I very much think it's right it's not really about individual officers. Police 740 00:50:28,971 --> 00:50:32,766 don't exist in a vacuum. They reflect all the problems of our broader society. 741 00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:36,006 DERAY MCKESSON: And the only thing... the only thing I would push a little bit is a 742 00:50:36,030 --> 00:50:40,166 reminder that shrinking the role and the footprint is also shrinking the number of officers, 743 00:50:40,190 --> 00:50:41,167 right? 744 00:50:41,191 --> 00:50:44,666 And I don't... the data doesn't show that that means more crime. And we actually might 745 00:50:44,690 --> 00:50:49,335 be intervening and responding to things before crimes happen, which is actually a cool thing, 746 00:50:49,359 --> 00:50:53,196 right, that our work can't be rooted in only responding to bad things. Our work has to 747 00:50:53,220 --> 00:50:56,295 actually be rooted in making sure that the bad things don't happen in the first place. 748 00:50:56,319 --> 00:50:59,536 So, when you think about the effects of poverty, we think about, like, how communities are 749 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:04,106 designed in ways to create conflict, these are policy choices. Homelessness is a policy 750 00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:08,216 choice. Poverty is a policy choice. We could actually set people up with a whole different 751 00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:12,006 set of options on the front end, so that we don't deal with these back end effects. 752 00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:17,030 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Rosa Brooks, how do we restore trust between police and the communities 753 00:51:18,030 --> 00:51:19,376 they are there to serve? 754 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,626 ROSA BROOKS: It is not an uncomplicated story. 755 00:51:22,650 --> 00:51:27,650 You know that, when you look at public polling on confidence in policing, it's very uneven, 756 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:34,555 but it's not rock-bottom. Even in low-income communities of color, there are still plenty 757 00:51:34,579 --> 00:51:39,095 of people who do want to work with police. They don't necessarily want fewer police. 758 00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:42,096 They want better and different and more responsive policing. 759 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:47,120 So I think it will happen. I do... just wanted to return to something interesting that DeRay 760 00:51:47,970 --> 00:51:52,970 said. One of the fascinating things about the COVID pandemic is that crime did not go 761 00:51:53,030 --> 00:51:58,030 up. Homicides went up in a number of American cities, but overall crime actually went down. 762 00:51:58,420 --> 00:52:03,065 And that's interesting both because it was during a period of extreme economic hardship 763 00:52:03,089 --> 00:52:08,089 for many Americans and it was during a period in which police in many municipalities, not 764 00:52:08,869 --> 00:52:13,869 all, but many, adopted a deliberate policy of reducing the types of situations, the number 765 00:52:16,290 --> 00:52:20,835 of situations to which armed officers were sent, simply because every interaction created 766 00:52:20,859 --> 00:52:24,246 a risk of infection for both the officers and everybody else involved. 767 00:52:24,270 --> 00:52:29,270 And the sky did not fall. So, we just... we're just coming out of a forced natural experiment 768 00:52:29,860 --> 00:52:34,860 in what happens if you reduce the amount of policing for minor things in many communities. 769 00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:40,746 And, so far, the results suggest that you don't necessarily get more crime, that you 770 00:52:40,770 --> 00:52:45,386 can do that and nothing terrible will happen, which, in itself, I think is a really hopeful 771 00:52:45,410 --> 00:52:50,410 indicator for those who think we should be doing a whole lot less policing and, frankly, 772 00:52:50,990 --> 00:52:53,266 criminalizing many fewer minor misdeeds. 773 00:52:53,290 --> 00:52:55,055 JUDY WOODRUFF: And something else that has come up... 774 00:52:55,079 --> 00:52:56,055 DERAY MCKESSON: Yes, but... 775 00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:57,056 JUDY WOODRUFF: But go ahead, DeRay. 776 00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,516 DERAY MCKESSON: I just want to say, you know what did stay constant during the pandemic, 777 00:52:59,540 --> 00:53:00,796 though, was police killings. 778 00:53:00,820 --> 00:53:04,906 The police killed more people last year than they did in every other year we have data 779 00:53:04,930 --> 00:53:06,795 for except for 2018. People weren't even outside. 780 00:53:06,819 --> 00:53:11,819 JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Margaret Huang, this question of restoring trust, to the extent it was there, 781 00:53:13,230 --> 00:53:18,230 how do you rebuild, how do you recreate trust between the police and the communities they're 782 00:53:19,319 --> 00:53:20,296 are serving? 783 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,476 MARGARET HUANG: Actions always speak louder than words. 784 00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:27,500 What we need to see is actually a transformation in the way policing departments respond in 785 00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:34,210 communities. And I think we have some interesting models that are now being adopted across the 786 00:53:34,579 --> 00:53:39,226 country. And we have a lot of interesting conversations happening about how police can 787 00:53:39,250 --> 00:53:41,575 show up differently in communities. 788 00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:46,599 What we need to see is buy-in from the police, but also from the elected officials who oversee 789 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:52,200 them. And we need to see buy-in from communities. Communities have to have a stake in the direction 790 00:53:52,420 --> 00:53:56,856 we're going in, and communities need to be consulted on how we do this well. 791 00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:01,880 JUDY WOODRUFF: It's a time of many, many hard questions that we're all trying to address. 792 00:54:03,390 --> 00:54:08,390 And we want to thank the three of you for joining us for this special program. 793 00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:14,030 DeRay McKesson, Margaret Huang, Rosa Brooks, thank you. Thank you, each one of you. 794 00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:25,500 MARGARET HUANG: Thank you, Judy. 795 00:54:25,710 --> 00:54:30,710 JUDY WOODRUFF: Whatever comes from efforts to improve relations between Black Americans 796 00:54:31,740 --> 00:54:36,740 and the police and race relations overall in this country, the murder of George Floyd 797 00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:39,555 was a historic marker. 798 00:54:39,579 --> 00:54:44,579 It galvanized and mobilized many here and around the world to say, no more. It ignited 799 00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:50,710 countless public debates about policy and millions of private conversations about attitudes. 800 00:54:53,010 --> 00:54:58,010 And it reminds us that what sets this nation apart is the constant striving to do better. 801 00:54:59,530 --> 00:55:04,530 In order to form that more perfect union laid out in our Constitution, we have no choice 802 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:10,320 but to keep working, keep talking, keep striving toward better policing, more engaged communities 803 00:55:12,940 --> 00:55:17,940 that make the safety and well-being of all Americans the priority of all of us. 804 00:55:19,980 --> 00:55:23,009 I'm Judy Woodruff. Thank you for watching.