WEBVTT FILE

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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-"Rosemary Pauline West,

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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on each of the ten counts
of murder,

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the sentence is one
of life imprisonment."

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-Throughout her trial, Rose West
maintained she was innocent.

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♪♪

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It turned out
that she was just 17

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when she began the most
sadistic killing spree

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Britain has ever witnessed.

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-She wanted to hurt women
as much as she could.

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-The more macabre nature
of this torture

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got progressively worse,

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with one killing
following another.

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-But how did this local
housewife become one

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of the most depraved killers
in history?

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Could Rose's childhood have
transformed her into a killer?

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-Rose was definitely in charge
in the West household.

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There was no denying that.

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-We'll speak to the people
who knew her best...

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-You could hear the screams
and the shouts

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and it was awful to hear.

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-...and discover a history
of mental illness...

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-She went into a little
bubble of her own.

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-...brutal therapies...

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-The seizures would be violent.

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She would've not found solace
in the outside world.

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-...and uncover generations
of abuse.

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-He'd actually been grooming her
from quite a young age.

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-There's no doubt that
he altered his daughter Rose.

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♪♪

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-Was Rose West raised
to become a killer

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or was she born evil?

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♪♪

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1970 marks a new bohemian era
for Great Britain.

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As glam rock topped the charts,
the Brits adopted

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this new, free-spirited,
permissive lifestyle.

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♪♪

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And, for 16-year-old
Rosemary Letts,

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life couldn't be better.

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She's moved in
with her new lover,

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29-year-old Fred;

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his stepdaughter, Charmaine;

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and daughter, Anne Marie.

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And, nine months later,
the couple introduce

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baby Heather to the world.

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♪♪

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-Rose is living in a kind of
fairy-tale dream, at this point.

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She's got this little family

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and she has this older chap
who's going to take care of her.

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So things were looking
quite bright, at this point.

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And then, Fred goes to prison

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and her world
comes crashing down.

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-Rose learnt the hard way

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that the man of her dreams
was a petty thief.

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-Fred was a kleptomaniac.

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If anything wasn't actually
nailed down, he would take it

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and so he was often
in and out of prison.

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-Fred was sentenced
to ten months in jail,

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leaving Rose all alone

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to raise baby Heather,
Anne Marie, and Charmaine.

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-She was actually living
in squalor

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with three small children,
unable to cope.

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This wasn't the life
that Rose had dreamed of.

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This wasn't
what she'd bargained for.

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This fairy tale
wasn't working out.

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-Just as Rose was learning a lot
about Fred's past,

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he would learn about hers.

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[Static crackles]

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-Years after the young girl

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went missing,
her remains were uncovered,

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buried under a kitchen floor.

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-In the summer of 1971,

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17-year-old Rose murders
her first victim --

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eight-year-old Charmaine.

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-In Gloucester's Midland Road,

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she did not get on
with her stepmother.

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-She told Rose,
"You're not my mother.

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You can't do this.

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You can't say that to me,"

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and Rose would lash out.

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She just picked up anything
that was to hand

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and would hit, jab, do whatever.

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And then, she would tie her
to the bed and whip her.

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-After one brutal outburst,
Rose kills Charmaine.

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[Static crackles]
-Rosemary West has spent

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her first night
behind prison bars.

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Rosemary West has been charged
with ten counts of murder.

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She remains in custody,

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where she denies
all involvement.

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-Today,
Rosemary West's solicitor told

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how she's in severe shock.

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-In her cell
at Pucklechurch Remand Centre,

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Rosemary West's reaction
was simple --

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"I'm innocent,"
she told her lawyer.

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-Okay.

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♪♪

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I think that Rose

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was constructed
of her life experiences.

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She had a reality that she
hadn't been able to confront

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since her childhood,

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the childhood
that was stolen from her.

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-To understand how Rose
crossed the line

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from motherhood to murder,

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we must go back to a time
before she was even born.

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[Static crackles]

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Rosemary Pauline Letts grew up
in beautiful North Devon.

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Her father, Bill Letts,
was in the Navy

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and was often away
for months on end,

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leaving her mother, Daisy,
at home to raise the children.

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♪♪

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-My name is Gill and I grew up,
as a child,

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next door to the Letts family.

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They lived in a semi-detached

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and we were right next to them,
really, you know?

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It was fantastic growing up
in Northam.

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All the men, they all had jobs,

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and the women were
just housewives,

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bringing up the children,
all very house-proud.

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Lovely, brand-new houses,
nice gardens.

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A wonderful place to grow up in.

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It seemed like summer
was forever.

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Maybe you remember
the good times.

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-During the early 1950s,
Britain was kind of optimistic.

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It was coming out of a war.

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It had managed to get
a National Health Service

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and various other things,
however,

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there was a great deal
of poverty

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and you had an awful lot
of ex-servicemen

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coming into the community,

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ill-fitted to settle
into normal life.

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-Whilst pregnant with Rose,

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Daisy was suffering from severe
prenatal depression,

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so Bill had to leave the Navy

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and struggled
with the domestic duties

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when settling
into civilian life.

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-Bill Letts
could best be described

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as brutal, violent,
impossible to like.

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He bullied, intimidated,
and, indeed, in the end,

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terrified his wife, Daisy.

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-You could hear the screams
and the shouts and banging

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and it was awful to hear.

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Everybody talked about it
on the estate.

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Daisy's teeth would chatter,
she would be so frightened,

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and the neighbors would say
that she

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would come round crying
and ask for help.

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I think, on one occasion,

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my mother did bring
social services,

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but nothing was
ever done about it.

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-As the pregnancy progressed,

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Daisy sank
into a deeper depression

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and sought professional help.

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-The depression is so severe
that it's recommended

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that she consider ECT,
convulsive therapy.

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♪♪

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Very dramatic therapy, indeed,

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involving electrodes attached
to the skull,

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you know,
so-called shock therapy.

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-Electroconvulsive therapy
was something

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that was kind of first used
in the '40s and in the '50s,

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but it was very crude.

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The point about ECT is it has
to produce a seizure.

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Basically, the level of seizure,
in Daisy's day,

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was that where
they'd break teeth,

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they would bite
through their tongues,

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they would break bones.

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There was so much amnesia
following it,

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they wouldn't know which side
of the bus stop to stand at.

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It was kind of like
a crude weapon

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that should only ever be used
in very severe depression.

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So Rose would've felt some
of the effects of the ECT

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and the seizures
that were caused

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and they would be violent.

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♪♪

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-And it was only, I think,
the day before Rose was born

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that she had her last
lot of ECT.

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I recall the day she came home
with her shaven head,

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carrying baby Rose,

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and I remember going
to my mum, saying,

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"God, what's happened
to Mrs. Letts?

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She's got no hair!"

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-In my view, it could
very well be argued that

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Rose's neurological development

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will have been retarded,
to some degree,

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by the ECT procedures
that her mother underwent.

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To have ECT late
in the gestation period,

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this often is
the more sophisticated parts

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of the brain development,
the inhibitory parts,

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the parts that give us
a conscience,

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that give us empathy,

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that stop us, basically,
from doing heinous acts.

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♪♪

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-Rosemary Pauline Letts was born
on the 29th of November 1953.

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-Rose was a very pretty baby,

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lovely hair
and lovely olive skin.

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-But baby Rose was remembered

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for more than her
striking features.

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-I remember seeing
little Rose sitting

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in her pram in the garden.

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You never heard much from her
and she used to do

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all this rocking back
and forwards

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and, you know, she'd be
sat there and, you know...

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I don't know what that
was all about.

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It was a strange thing
for a kid to do, really,

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wasn't it?

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-Rose engaged in stereotypies,

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basically moving her head,
rocking her head.

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These things will generate
endorphins in the body.

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They will soothe the person.

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♪♪

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The rocking that you see in Rose

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would often be seen in children
that have been abused,

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where they're getting comfort
from this repeated movement.

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She would've not found solace
in the outside world

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and she would turn in
on this kind of behavior

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to change her biochemistry,
to make her feel okay.

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-Despite the hostile household,

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Daisy and Bill continued
to have more children.

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But as the family grew, so did
Bill's resentment towards them.

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-It's impossible to convey
just how dysfunctional

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the Letts family was.

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-Well, the Letts family
didn't fit

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into the community there at all.

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The children never played out.

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-You have a father,
in Bill Letts,

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who is telling you to behave
properly at all times.

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Swear words are not used.

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He doesn't use foul language,

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but he's insisting
that everything's clean.

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If you sit at the table,
no one says anything.

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I mean, proper.

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Everything has
to be done correctly.

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This is a man who finally
found himself in the navy,

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as, "Oh, I fit in now.

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I haven't fitted in before,
but I now fit in.

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I know where I am."

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-Having been forced
to leave the navy,

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Bill had lost his status
and sense of self-worth,

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something he would try
and regain at home

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by using violence.

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-Letts was fierce
and intimidating.

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You have children who were made
to clean the carpet

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with toothbrushes, you know.

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It's an extraordinary household.

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It's unlike anything
you could possibly imagine.

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You have this tyrant of a father
telling them what to do.

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You have a mother
who's intimidated

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to clean everything
all the time.

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-The Letts household
was basically some kind

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of bizarre,
punitive military camp.

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It was never really
a childlike atmosphere.

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It was always
an atmosphere of fear.

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00:11:29.136 --> 00:11:33.382
-Every day, there was shouting,
bawling, and smacking and --

254
00:11:33.485 --> 00:11:35.246
He always walked
around with a beret,

255
00:11:35.349 --> 00:11:36.834
in like a military sort of walk

256
00:11:36.937 --> 00:11:39.802
with his long mac thing,
you know?

257
00:11:39.906 --> 00:11:41.562
And the kids used to walk
a bit like that.

258
00:11:41.666 --> 00:11:43.392
He was a bit regimented
with them.

259
00:11:43.495 --> 00:11:46.498
-Letts was -- and there's
no other word for it --

260
00:11:46.602 --> 00:11:47.637
a monster.

261
00:11:47.741 --> 00:11:48.949
♪♪

262
00:11:49.053 --> 00:11:50.675
From a very early age,

263
00:11:50.779 --> 00:11:54.403
Rose would've seen
the elder children's fears.

264
00:11:54.506 --> 00:11:57.061
She had a childhood
which, really,

265
00:11:57.164 --> 00:11:59.753
she retracted from the world.

266
00:11:59.857 --> 00:12:01.893
She went into a little
bubble of her own,

267
00:12:01.997 --> 00:12:05.069
creating her own life,
hiding in the corner,

268
00:12:05.172 --> 00:12:08.072
sitting at the back of the class
in primary school,

269
00:12:08.175 --> 00:12:12.386
playing with her own dolls,
removed from the world.

270
00:12:12.490 --> 00:12:15.458
-To avoid any beatings
at the hand of her father,

271
00:12:15.562 --> 00:12:19.255
Rose would become reclusive
and disengaged.

272
00:12:19.359 --> 00:12:21.430
-She had these
very winsome ways.

273
00:12:21.533 --> 00:12:23.743
So, while he'd come home
and shout

274
00:12:23.846 --> 00:12:26.504
and hit most
of the other children,

275
00:12:26.607 --> 00:12:28.195
if they hadn't done
their chores,

276
00:12:28.299 --> 00:12:31.371
he would let Rosie off.

277
00:12:31.474 --> 00:12:35.306
-Bill would exploit
Rose's passive demeanor.

278
00:12:35.409 --> 00:12:37.239
-Bill had a hidden agenda.

279
00:12:37.342 --> 00:12:41.208
He was someone who had
pedophilic tendencies.

280
00:12:41.312 --> 00:12:44.211
He was thinking that
that vulnerability that Rose had

281
00:12:44.315 --> 00:12:47.042
would make her someone
who could be coerced

282
00:12:47.145 --> 00:12:49.458
into sexual activity.

283
00:12:49.561 --> 00:12:54.290
-He'd actually been grooming her
from quite a young age.

284
00:12:54.394 --> 00:12:56.948
Rosie was the one
that was vulnerable.

285
00:12:57.052 --> 00:13:01.297
She wasthe one that wasn't
really going to say anything.

286
00:13:01.401 --> 00:13:05.405
-When Bill inflicted
sexual abuse on Rose,

287
00:13:05.508 --> 00:13:08.615
he was limiting her development.

288
00:13:08.718 --> 00:13:10.617
She was learning
the wrong skills

289
00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:13.240
and the wrong
motivations for life.

290
00:13:13.344 --> 00:13:17.141
She was on a path that,
almost certainly, would lead

291
00:13:17.244 --> 00:13:22.077
to her being part of abusive
relations in the future,

292
00:13:22.180 --> 00:13:25.943
and even an instigator
of abusive relations.

293
00:13:26.046 --> 00:13:27.013
[Static crackles]

294
00:13:27.116 --> 00:13:32.535
♪♪

295
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:33.916
-Aged 15,

296
00:13:34.020 --> 00:13:35.366
years of incest abuse

297
00:13:35.469 --> 00:13:37.437
had normalized sex for Rose.

298
00:13:37.540 --> 00:13:40.026
She had earnt a reputation
as a nymphomaniac

299
00:13:40.129 --> 00:13:42.028
amongst the local older men.

300
00:13:42.131 --> 00:13:44.513
-Rose's engagement
with Bill Letts

301
00:13:44.616 --> 00:13:46.446
at an early stage

302
00:13:46.549 --> 00:13:49.794
meant that she had a model
in her head of the older man,

303
00:13:49.898 --> 00:13:51.209
which she found normal,

304
00:13:51.313 --> 00:13:53.556
which she could relate to.

305
00:13:53.660 --> 00:13:54.868
-One man who had heard

306
00:13:54.972 --> 00:13:57.250
about this highly
sexualized teenager

307
00:13:57.353 --> 00:14:00.391
was 29-year-old Fred West.

308
00:14:00.494 --> 00:14:02.911
-Fred lived near Rose

309
00:14:03.014 --> 00:14:05.948
and he had probably heard
her name mentioned

310
00:14:06.052 --> 00:14:07.743
because I think she
was getting quite infamous

311
00:14:07.847 --> 00:14:09.469
at this time locally.

312
00:14:09.572 --> 00:14:14.094
-I'm pretty sure that Fred
targeted Rose quite early on.

313
00:14:14.198 --> 00:14:15.544
[Chuckling]
She was voluptuous.

314
00:14:15.647 --> 00:14:18.271
She was obviously out there,
in every sense.

315
00:14:18.374 --> 00:14:20.929
I think Fred knew that.

316
00:14:21.032 --> 00:14:26.244
Fred was a wily man,
knew how to exploit.

317
00:14:26.348 --> 00:14:29.592
-She was at the bus station
in Cheltenham

318
00:14:29.696 --> 00:14:32.492
when this chap in this mac
shuffled over.

319
00:14:32.595 --> 00:14:36.323
He'd got like, she said,
"Ganky green teeth."

320
00:14:36.427 --> 00:14:41.570
He was quite scruffy,
but he had a good line in chat

321
00:14:41.673 --> 00:14:44.021
and she said he could charm
the birds off the trees,

322
00:14:44.124 --> 00:14:48.749
so, when they were going home
on the bus, he sat next to her

323
00:14:48.853 --> 00:14:50.717
and then, they discovered
they had lots in common,

324
00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:53.927
like they both
had mothers called Daisy,

325
00:14:54.031 --> 00:14:56.792
they both lived close by,

326
00:14:56.896 --> 00:15:02.384
that they [Laughing] both
had committed incest.

327
00:15:02.487 --> 00:15:06.975
When Fred started to talk
about things of a sexual nature,

328
00:15:07.078 --> 00:15:11.703
to do with like bondage, S&M,
all the stuff that he was into,

329
00:15:11.807 --> 00:15:15.259
then, any other girl
would've run off,

330
00:15:15.362 --> 00:15:16.536
but Rose didn't.

331
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:18.365
She stayed

332
00:15:18.469 --> 00:15:22.266
because that was kind of quite
a normal thing that she knew of.

333
00:15:22.369 --> 00:15:23.923
♪♪

334
00:15:24.026 --> 00:15:30.688
-I think Fred sensed,
almost in an animalistic way,

335
00:15:30.791 --> 00:15:34.864
that, "Here's someone who could
help me do what I want to do."

336
00:15:34.968 --> 00:15:37.867
-Having left his estranged wife,
Rena Costello,

337
00:15:37.971 --> 00:15:42.010
Fred invited Rose to move
into 25 Midland Road,

338
00:15:42.113 --> 00:15:44.046
along with his daughter,
Anne Marie;

339
00:15:44.150 --> 00:15:46.152
and stepdaughter, Charmaine.

340
00:15:46.255 --> 00:15:48.948
-Rose made a leap
into what was very much

341
00:15:49.051 --> 00:15:52.192
the deep end of relationships.

342
00:15:52.296 --> 00:15:56.783
So she actually did move out
of the father's household,

343
00:15:56.886 --> 00:15:59.372
stepping into Fred West's life,

344
00:15:59.475 --> 00:16:04.860
looking after his
two current children.

345
00:16:04.964 --> 00:16:08.312
-Just weeks after they welcomed
their first child together,

346
00:16:08.415 --> 00:16:11.246
Fred was jailed for theft

347
00:16:11.349 --> 00:16:14.732
and Rose was left alone
to raise the three children --

348
00:16:14.835 --> 00:16:18.460
baby Heather,
Anne Marie, and Charmaine.

349
00:16:18.563 --> 00:16:23.085
-Charmaine had always been
defiant and stood up to Rose.

350
00:16:23.189 --> 00:16:25.191
-Rose felt
very challenged by her

351
00:16:25.294 --> 00:16:29.091
and she couldn't cope
and she would lash out.

352
00:16:29.195 --> 00:16:31.128
It was almost like, at times,

353
00:16:31.231 --> 00:16:34.510
losing touch with reality,
she was so enraged, like Bill.

354
00:16:34.614 --> 00:16:37.444
And then, she would

355
00:16:37.548 --> 00:16:41.621
tie her to the bed,
her legs and arms outstretched,

356
00:16:41.724 --> 00:16:45.625
and whip her, just lash her.

357
00:16:45.728 --> 00:16:49.008
It's just a nightmare.

358
00:16:49.111 --> 00:16:51.907
Charmaine absolutely refused
to break down.

359
00:16:52.011 --> 00:16:55.911
She refused to cry
and that irked Rose,

360
00:16:56.015 --> 00:16:58.293
that she couldn't get
the better of her.

361
00:16:58.396 --> 00:17:02.538
-The fact that Fred had baggage
from previous relationships

362
00:17:02.642 --> 00:17:04.644
was highly resented by Rose,

363
00:17:04.747 --> 00:17:06.646
who had a very simple view
of things.

364
00:17:06.749 --> 00:17:08.682
Her vision of her and Fred

365
00:17:08.786 --> 00:17:10.546
having a wonderful
life together

366
00:17:10.650 --> 00:17:15.896
did not include previous
relationship children.

367
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.830
-And, when Charmaine would
not abide by the rules,

368
00:17:18.934 --> 00:17:21.419
Rose killed her.

369
00:17:21.523 --> 00:17:24.250
-I think Rose,

370
00:17:24.353 --> 00:17:29.255
with the stress and luggage
that she was carrying

371
00:17:29.358 --> 00:17:31.429
and the anger
that she had within her,

372
00:17:31.533 --> 00:17:34.639
she was capable
of killing Charmaine.

373
00:17:34.743 --> 00:17:39.127
She applied the same kind
of draconian regime

374
00:17:39.230 --> 00:17:40.645
that she'd witnessed
with Bill Letts

375
00:17:40.749 --> 00:17:42.371
in her own house.

376
00:17:42.475 --> 00:17:45.374
I'm not saying that she
would've planned to murder her,

377
00:17:45.478 --> 00:17:48.998
but she might have just beaten
the living daylights out of her.

378
00:17:49.102 --> 00:17:50.379
-It is believed that Rose

379
00:17:50.483 --> 00:17:53.106
hid Charmaine's body
in the coal cellar

380
00:17:53.210 --> 00:17:56.247
and that Fred buried the body
beneath the kitchen floor

381
00:17:56.351 --> 00:17:59.630
when he was released from jail.

382
00:17:59.733 --> 00:18:01.770
-Charmaine's mother, Rena,

383
00:18:01.873 --> 00:18:06.637
came around, seeking out
where Charmaine had gone.

384
00:18:06.740 --> 00:18:08.535
Rena was becoming a problem

385
00:18:08.639 --> 00:18:12.367
and, in Fred's mind,
she had to go.

386
00:18:12.470 --> 00:18:15.887
-After strangling Rena,
Fred buried her dismembered body

387
00:18:15.991 --> 00:18:18.304
in a field near
his childhood home.

388
00:18:18.407 --> 00:18:22.066
But this was not the first time
Fred had committed murder.

389
00:18:22.170 --> 00:18:25.932
-He has then told Rose
about Anna McFall

390
00:18:26.035 --> 00:18:28.314
and the child
that Anna was having

391
00:18:28.417 --> 00:18:29.660
and where they're buried.

392
00:18:29.763 --> 00:18:32.041
-Three years
before meeting Rose,

393
00:18:32.145 --> 00:18:34.492
Fred murdered
his 18-year-old mistress

394
00:18:34.596 --> 00:18:38.531
and their unborn child to avoid
his wife Rena finding out.

395
00:18:38.634 --> 00:18:43.087
-So, now, they have this bond
between them.

396
00:18:43.191 --> 00:18:45.745
They've got a hold
over each other

397
00:18:45.848 --> 00:18:50.612
and that won't break until many,
many years and murders later.

398
00:18:50.715 --> 00:18:52.269
♪♪

399
00:18:52.372 --> 00:18:53.442
[Static crackles]

400
00:18:53.546 --> 00:18:55.686
♪♪

401
00:18:55.789 --> 00:18:57.998
Fred West had
a dysfunctional upbringing

402
00:18:58.102 --> 00:19:00.656
by his parents,
Walter and Daisy,

403
00:19:00.760 --> 00:19:03.142
in a remote part
of the countryside,

404
00:19:03.245 --> 00:19:06.075
15 miles outside of Gloucester.

405
00:19:06.179 --> 00:19:09.148
I was the authorized biographer
of Frederick West,

406
00:19:09.251 --> 00:19:11.080
given his papers
by the officials listed

407
00:19:11.184 --> 00:19:12.634
at the supreme court.

408
00:19:12.737 --> 00:19:15.326
The first time I ever heard
Frederick West's voice

409
00:19:15.430 --> 00:19:16.914
was when I listened
to the first tape,

410
00:19:17.017 --> 00:19:20.780
describing, in a little singsong
Herefordshire accent,

411
00:19:20.883 --> 00:19:21.953
what had been happening.

412
00:19:22.057 --> 00:19:23.783
♪♪

413
00:19:23.886 --> 00:19:26.268
Important point to remember
about Fred's childhood

414
00:19:26.372 --> 00:19:29.823
was that he came
from an extraordinarily

415
00:19:29.927 --> 00:19:32.688
incestuous household.

416
00:19:32.792 --> 00:19:36.175
Fred himself talked about it
in his police interviews.

417
00:19:36.278 --> 00:19:41.076
Daisy took Fred to bed
and initiated him into sex

418
00:19:41.180 --> 00:19:43.009
at a very early age.

419
00:19:43.112 --> 00:19:47.324
Fred told the authorities his
father had had sex with animals

420
00:19:47.427 --> 00:19:48.773
and there's no question
his father

421
00:19:48.877 --> 00:19:51.362
persuaded Fred
to have sex with animals,

422
00:19:51.466 --> 00:19:53.916
particularly, sheep.

423
00:19:54.020 --> 00:19:55.194
It wasn't even surprising.

424
00:19:55.297 --> 00:19:56.747
[Baa]

425
00:19:56.850 --> 00:19:58.818
Fred also witnessed his father

426
00:19:58.921 --> 00:20:00.613
having sex with young girls,

427
00:20:00.716 --> 00:20:04.720
but he was also well aware that
his father wouldn't hesitate

428
00:20:04.824 --> 00:20:09.691
to hurt a young girl
that didn't do what he wanted.

429
00:20:09.794 --> 00:20:14.730
They lived in a world which was
remote from convention.

430
00:20:14.834 --> 00:20:16.318
They did what they wanted

431
00:20:16.422 --> 00:20:18.976
and this was
Walter West's universe.

432
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:20.736
He commanded it.

433
00:20:20.840 --> 00:20:23.532
What Daisy did --
"If you want to kill a pig,

434
00:20:23.636 --> 00:20:24.602
we'll hang it up in the kitchen.

435
00:20:24.706 --> 00:20:26.604
It'll bleed onto the floor."

436
00:20:26.708 --> 00:20:31.057
This was not anything like
a suburban upbringing.

437
00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:33.680
It was completely
opposite of that.

438
00:20:33.784 --> 00:20:36.580
Fred then took those habits
and translated them

439
00:20:36.683 --> 00:20:40.342
into an urban environment,
Gloucester itself.

440
00:20:40.446 --> 00:20:44.312
He was still, really,
a farm laborer at heart.

441
00:20:44.415 --> 00:20:48.730
Everybody I ever talked to
about Fred West

442
00:20:48.833 --> 00:20:51.422
said the same thing --
"You'd never have believed it."

443
00:20:51.526 --> 00:20:54.529
He was just --
well, he was just commonplace.

444
00:20:54.632 --> 00:20:56.979
He was a little
commonplace little man.

445
00:20:57.083 --> 00:21:00.983
But one person who always knew
exactly what Fred was like

446
00:21:01.087 --> 00:21:02.157
was Rose.

447
00:21:02.261 --> 00:21:03.607
Rose knew
from the very beginning

448
00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:05.747
and she also knew how
to press his buttons.

449
00:21:05.850 --> 00:21:10.821
♪♪

450
00:21:10.924 --> 00:21:14.411
-As soon as Rose turned 18,
they got married.

451
00:21:14.514 --> 00:21:16.551
After the birth
of their second child,

452
00:21:16.654 --> 00:21:18.725
they bought their first home
and moved

453
00:21:18.829 --> 00:21:21.245
into 25 Cromwell Street
in Gloucester,

454
00:21:21.349 --> 00:21:24.490
along with daughters
Heather and Anne Marie.

455
00:21:24.593 --> 00:21:26.008
-Owning their own home,

456
00:21:26.112 --> 00:21:27.769
particularly Rose,
at such a young age,

457
00:21:27.872 --> 00:21:29.564
was a huge thing for her

458
00:21:29.667 --> 00:21:30.979
and, of course,
she was really pleased

459
00:21:31.082 --> 00:21:33.947
to be moving
into 25 Cromwell Street.

460
00:21:34.051 --> 00:21:37.537
-I mean, Rose, finally,
at 25 Cromwell Street,

461
00:21:37.641 --> 00:21:41.714
gets her own domain
and she treats it as her domain

462
00:21:41.817 --> 00:21:43.647
and she rules it
with a rod of iron.

463
00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:46.097
She rules her own children
even more fiercely

464
00:21:46.201 --> 00:21:49.618
than Bill intimidated her
as a child.

465
00:21:49.722 --> 00:21:52.794
♪♪

466
00:21:52.897 --> 00:21:55.969
-To help pay the way
with the mortgage,

467
00:21:56.073 --> 00:21:58.386
the upstairs were turned
into bedsits

468
00:21:58.489 --> 00:22:02.321
and they would let them to young
sort of transient people.

469
00:22:02.424 --> 00:22:06.601
♪♪

470
00:22:06.704 --> 00:22:09.017
-I was actually a resident
at 25 Cromwell Street,

471
00:22:09.120 --> 00:22:11.985
with Rosemary and Fred
being my landlord and landlady.

472
00:22:12.089 --> 00:22:15.057
I wasn't working while I was
living there, or studying.

473
00:22:15.161 --> 00:22:17.508
I'd just walked out of home
when I was 16.

474
00:22:17.612 --> 00:22:20.062
I was just a runaway.
[Laughs]

475
00:22:20.166 --> 00:22:21.685
I attended
St James Junior School

476
00:22:21.788 --> 00:22:23.480
with Anne Marie
in the year below,

477
00:22:23.583 --> 00:22:25.274
so I knew them quite well.

478
00:22:25.378 --> 00:22:28.588
I'd seen Rose previously
picking Anne Marie up.

479
00:22:28.692 --> 00:22:32.040
I never really kind of put
two and two together

480
00:22:32.143 --> 00:22:33.697
as Rose West
being her stepmother

481
00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:36.113
because she didn't really
look much different

482
00:22:36.216 --> 00:22:38.149
in the way that she dressed.

483
00:22:38.253 --> 00:22:42.637
Schoolgirl-type sort of clothes
with skirts and trainers.

484
00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:44.432
Not what you would expect
for somebody that's a mother,

485
00:22:44.535 --> 00:22:46.572
more somebody that was just
going on to high school.

486
00:22:46.675 --> 00:22:47.987
♪♪

487
00:22:48.090 --> 00:22:50.299
I bumped into Anne Marie in town

488
00:22:50.403 --> 00:22:54.062
and Anne Marie was talking to me
about her parents had a room.

489
00:22:54.165 --> 00:22:56.409
So I went to the café
to meet them

490
00:22:56.513 --> 00:22:58.894
and there was Fred and Rose.

491
00:22:58.998 --> 00:23:00.655
Rose was a very forward person.

492
00:23:00.758 --> 00:23:02.726
She said it as it was
and she seemed

493
00:23:02.829 --> 00:23:05.176
to be the dominant person
in the relationship.

494
00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:09.526
Fred wasn't passive, but Fred
was quiet, compared to Rose.

495
00:23:09.629 --> 00:23:11.148
He was just sort of like
saying, you know,

496
00:23:11.251 --> 00:23:12.943
"It's your choice, if you want
to come and have a look,"

497
00:23:13.046 --> 00:23:15.394
whereas Rose was, "This is
the rules and regulations,"

498
00:23:15.497 --> 00:23:18.293
so there was a lot of difference
between the two of them.

499
00:23:18.397 --> 00:23:22.297
From what I can remember,
I moved in about a week later.

500
00:23:22.401 --> 00:23:24.264
I'd never lived away from home
before, so, to me,

501
00:23:24.368 --> 00:23:28.752
it was a room that I could rent
and be my own person.

502
00:23:28.855 --> 00:23:30.409
It was a very clean house.

503
00:23:30.512 --> 00:23:31.686
It always smelt fresh.

504
00:23:31.789 --> 00:23:33.342
It smelt of bleach most
of the time

505
00:23:33.446 --> 00:23:35.379
and everywhere I went,
it was very clean.

506
00:23:35.483 --> 00:23:37.726
♪♪

507
00:23:37.830 --> 00:23:39.521
-Jayne soon began to realize

508
00:23:39.625 --> 00:23:42.351
that Fred and Rose
were no ordinary couple.

509
00:23:42.455 --> 00:23:44.630
♪♪

510
00:23:44.733 --> 00:23:46.217
The doorbell went, but,

511
00:23:46.321 --> 00:23:49.635
it lit up a red light
above the living room door.

512
00:23:49.738 --> 00:23:52.396
And I [Laughs] jokingly said,

513
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:54.018
"Oh, is this
the red light district?"

514
00:23:54.122 --> 00:23:56.193
And then Fred come walking in
from the other side

515
00:23:56.296 --> 00:23:59.023
and went through.

516
00:23:59.127 --> 00:24:01.785
That's how I found out that
she was having other men in.

517
00:24:01.888 --> 00:24:05.098
♪♪

518
00:24:05.202 --> 00:24:08.964
-Rose used her insatiable
appetite for sex to make money,

519
00:24:09.068 --> 00:24:11.933
working as a prostitute
out of the family home,

520
00:24:12.036 --> 00:24:13.900
something which Fred encouraged.

521
00:24:14.004 --> 00:24:16.593
-This was somewhere
where they had space,

522
00:24:16.696 --> 00:24:18.457
where they could invest,
if you like,

523
00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:23.013
in their bizarre activities,
for sex to become

524
00:24:23.116 --> 00:24:27.086
something that Rose could
indulge in endlessly.

525
00:24:27.189 --> 00:24:29.606
-I --

526
00:24:29.709 --> 00:24:32.263
I kind of was a bit
confused over it.

527
00:24:32.367 --> 00:24:34.058
Again, I was only 16 and naive,

528
00:24:34.162 --> 00:24:38.131
so why does a woman
want other men in?

529
00:24:38.235 --> 00:24:39.961
Maybe if that's how they
fulfill their relationship,

530
00:24:40.064 --> 00:24:41.065
that's their choice.

531
00:24:41.169 --> 00:24:44.517
♪♪

532
00:24:44.621 --> 00:24:47.416
-It gave them the chance,
as it were,

533
00:24:47.520 --> 00:24:52.076
to partition their lives,
to be able to control elements,

534
00:24:52.180 --> 00:24:55.873
for Fred to engage
in voyeuristic activity

535
00:24:55.977 --> 00:24:57.944
with Rose's sex activity.

536
00:24:58.048 --> 00:25:00.982
-Yes, she was charging money,
but this was more

537
00:25:01.085 --> 00:25:05.711
about Fred watching
and peering through spy holes

538
00:25:05.814 --> 00:25:09.956
that he made
in all the doors and walls.

539
00:25:10.060 --> 00:25:13.132
He had an intercom system
built, as well,

540
00:25:13.235 --> 00:25:15.928
so, wherever he was,
he could listen.

541
00:25:16.031 --> 00:25:17.550
-He loved watching Rose,

542
00:25:17.654 --> 00:25:19.552
particularly,
performing sexually.

543
00:25:19.656 --> 00:25:22.037
He would record it as well.

544
00:25:22.141 --> 00:25:23.832
He was an archetypal voyeur.

545
00:25:23.936 --> 00:25:28.043
He took great pleasure
in having sex with Rose

546
00:25:28.147 --> 00:25:29.942
after she'd had sex
with somebody else.

547
00:25:30.045 --> 00:25:32.807
That was one of the things
that really turned Fred on.

548
00:25:32.910 --> 00:25:34.291
♪♪

549
00:25:34.394 --> 00:25:36.017
-Sometimes he would coat himself

550
00:25:36.120 --> 00:25:38.433
in the sperm of her clients,

551
00:25:38.537 --> 00:25:41.470
that he'd take from condoms,

552
00:25:41.574 --> 00:25:46.061
so he felt he was breeding
something like a master race.

553
00:25:46.165 --> 00:25:48.063
It was just crazy stuff

554
00:25:48.167 --> 00:25:50.756
and Rose went along
with those delusions,

555
00:25:50.859 --> 00:25:54.622
so they really were caught up
in a folie à deux.

556
00:25:54.725 --> 00:25:57.625
-I'm one of the few people
who actually saw the videotapes

557
00:25:57.728 --> 00:25:59.834
that Fred made of Rose

558
00:25:59.937 --> 00:26:03.838
doing various extraordinary
sexual things.

559
00:26:03.941 --> 00:26:05.598
Absolutely revolting.

560
00:26:05.702 --> 00:26:08.118
She was actually
performing for Fred,

561
00:26:08.221 --> 00:26:10.845
inserting things into herself,

562
00:26:10.948 --> 00:26:14.124
showing the knickers
that she'd brought back and used

563
00:26:14.227 --> 00:26:16.609
and kept in jars on the
mantelpiece in her room.

564
00:26:16.713 --> 00:26:21.096
She was showing
how enthusiastic she was.

565
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.272
And Fred very seldom
appeared himself.

566
00:26:24.375 --> 00:26:26.170
He occasionally would
pop his head round,

567
00:26:26.274 --> 00:26:28.034
but he was always
behind the camera

568
00:26:28.138 --> 00:26:29.898
and Rose was always
in front of it.

569
00:26:30.002 --> 00:26:31.624
And that played out

570
00:26:31.728 --> 00:26:33.177
throughout their
entire marriage.

571
00:26:33.281 --> 00:26:34.454
I've used the phrase before

572
00:26:34.558 --> 00:26:36.215
and I mean it, still,
to this day --

573
00:26:36.318 --> 00:26:38.942
she was, in every sense,
the sorcerer's apprentice.

574
00:26:39.045 --> 00:26:40.909
♪♪

575
00:26:41.013 --> 00:26:43.084
-The Wests
were pushing boundaries,

576
00:26:43.187 --> 00:26:46.397
experimenting with fetishes.

577
00:26:46.501 --> 00:26:50.332
She liked --
It's no secret.

578
00:26:50.436 --> 00:26:53.370
Fred himself talked about it
in his police interviews,

579
00:26:53.473 --> 00:26:56.373
that Rose liked rough sex.

580
00:26:56.476 --> 00:26:58.099
She liked hard.

581
00:26:58.202 --> 00:26:59.618
She didn't like any chatting up.

582
00:26:59.721 --> 00:27:02.621
She liked fierceness.

583
00:27:02.724 --> 00:27:04.036
♪♪

584
00:27:04.139 --> 00:27:06.452
-But Rose wanted more,
and would turn

585
00:27:06.555 --> 00:27:09.248
to the increasingly popular
classified adverts

586
00:27:09.351 --> 00:27:11.319
to appease her sexual desires.

587
00:27:11.422 --> 00:27:13.632
♪♪

588
00:27:13.735 --> 00:27:17.843
-Here you have the development
of strong paraphilias --

589
00:27:17.946 --> 00:27:21.812
Rose becoming exhibitionist
and Fred becoming a voyeur

590
00:27:21.916 --> 00:27:24.919
and getting visions
of pornographic films

591
00:27:25.022 --> 00:27:26.955
and other kind of things.

592
00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:30.856
He was full of ideas,
that were often macabre.

593
00:27:30.959 --> 00:27:33.548
♪♪

594
00:27:33.652 --> 00:27:37.414
-So, what you'd got was this
extraordinary conjunction

595
00:27:37.517 --> 00:27:39.830
Of a highly sexualized
young woman

596
00:27:39.934 --> 00:27:41.625
and a very manipulative man.

597
00:27:41.729 --> 00:27:43.006
♪♪

598
00:27:43.109 --> 00:27:46.768
Okay, so does she marry
her father?

599
00:27:46.872 --> 00:27:48.874
Is West really Bill Letts?

600
00:27:48.977 --> 00:27:51.152
It's possible.
There's an element of it.

601
00:27:51.255 --> 00:27:52.256
Not complete, of course.

602
00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:53.810
It's too glib.

603
00:27:53.913 --> 00:27:55.259
But there is an element there.

604
00:27:55.363 --> 00:27:58.642
There's an element of Fred
targeting Rose

605
00:27:58.746 --> 00:28:00.955
and then, Rose targeting Fred.

606
00:28:01.058 --> 00:28:06.546
♪♪

607
00:28:06.650 --> 00:28:08.341
-Outside of Cromwell Street,

608
00:28:08.445 --> 00:28:11.206
Rose was keen to portray
a normal life,

609
00:28:11.310 --> 00:28:15.210
although her obsession with sex
was known amongst the locals.

610
00:28:15.314 --> 00:28:17.799
-Rose West was known as,
you know, basically, a slut,

611
00:28:17.903 --> 00:28:19.076
but she liked her men.

612
00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:20.906
She was known for,
you know, flashing

613
00:28:21.009 --> 00:28:24.047
or trying to show herself off
and things like that, yeah.

614
00:28:24.150 --> 00:28:27.602
She'd always like to touch you
or she could be quite, you know.

615
00:28:27.706 --> 00:28:30.053
She liked to let you know
she liked you.

616
00:28:30.156 --> 00:28:31.917
I didn't feel comfortable
around her.

617
00:28:32.020 --> 00:28:33.919
I couldn't wait to get
away from her.

618
00:28:34.022 --> 00:28:35.783
You just knew there was
something a bit

619
00:28:35.886 --> 00:28:38.544
seedy about her, you know?

620
00:28:38.647 --> 00:28:42.375
My mum and dad used to run
the St Peters Social Club

621
00:28:42.479 --> 00:28:43.963
and, of course,
Fred and Rose West

622
00:28:44.067 --> 00:28:45.206
used to go there.

623
00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:46.828
Rose used to turn up
to the events

624
00:28:46.932 --> 00:28:49.037
like, you know,
with the cowboy hat, the guns,

625
00:28:49.141 --> 00:28:53.007
and everything was so hypo,
you know, around her table.

626
00:28:53.110 --> 00:28:54.111
She had a temper on her.

627
00:28:54.215 --> 00:28:55.699
Even in the club,

628
00:28:55.803 --> 00:28:58.357
she'd shout at the kids
and tell them to sit down.

629
00:28:58.460 --> 00:29:00.911
She was, you know,
like a sergeant major
with them, you know?

630
00:29:01.015 --> 00:29:02.464
Sometimes it could be
uncomfortable

631
00:29:02.568 --> 00:29:04.466
seeing her snap
and shout at the kids,

632
00:29:04.570 --> 00:29:06.089
but, you know,
they knew their place.

633
00:29:06.192 --> 00:29:09.195
When she said something,
they knew and they sat there,

634
00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:11.335
you know,
and they toed the line.

635
00:29:11.439 --> 00:29:12.992
♪♪

636
00:29:13.096 --> 00:29:14.891
When Rose hit the dance floor,
you know,

637
00:29:14.994 --> 00:29:18.618
she was like flirty-dancing,
you know, sexy-dancing.

638
00:29:18.722 --> 00:29:20.310
Fred was always shy.

639
00:29:20.413 --> 00:29:21.587
He'd smile.

640
00:29:21.690 --> 00:29:23.658
Rose would always
keep an eye on Fred --

641
00:29:23.762 --> 00:29:25.902
where he was going,
who he was talking to --

642
00:29:26.005 --> 00:29:29.733
and she always watched him
and she was the boss.

643
00:29:29.837 --> 00:29:32.943
She was probably trying
to be someone she wasn't

644
00:29:33.047 --> 00:29:34.876
when she was on the dance floor.

645
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:37.051
You know, that was her
de-stressor kind of thing,

646
00:29:37.154 --> 00:29:38.500
trying to convince herself

647
00:29:38.604 --> 00:29:41.124
she was a normal person,
I suppose, you know?

648
00:29:41.227 --> 00:29:42.608
-But this new confidence,

649
00:29:42.711 --> 00:29:45.507
both inside and outside
of Cromwell Street,

650
00:29:45.611 --> 00:29:47.613
was a far cry
from Rose as a child

651
00:29:47.716 --> 00:29:49.304
[Static crackles]
...who struggled,

652
00:29:49.408 --> 00:29:51.962
socially and academically.

653
00:29:52.066 --> 00:29:55.241
-When Rose started school,
her sort of inabilities

654
00:29:55.345 --> 00:29:57.726
with language, understanding;

655
00:29:57.830 --> 00:30:00.488
thumb-sucking --
a lot of the stereotypies --

656
00:30:00.591 --> 00:30:02.662
became more obvious,

657
00:30:02.766 --> 00:30:05.044
contrasted with all
the other children.

658
00:30:05.148 --> 00:30:08.807
-There's no doubt that Rose was
not a particularly bright child.

659
00:30:08.910 --> 00:30:13.881
She was slow to pick up
the obvious things --

660
00:30:13.984 --> 00:30:16.538
reading, writing,
and arithmetic.

661
00:30:16.642 --> 00:30:20.370
-In these very early days,
the way of treating children

662
00:30:20.473 --> 00:30:23.235
who were not showing signs
of good development was

663
00:30:23.338 --> 00:30:24.926
to place them in the corner,

664
00:30:25.030 --> 00:30:27.066
place a dunce's cap
on their head,

665
00:30:27.170 --> 00:30:30.829
make them face the wall,
basically, to single them out

666
00:30:30.932 --> 00:30:33.038
and say, "Don't do that.

667
00:30:33.141 --> 00:30:34.660
Improve.
Look,

668
00:30:34.763 --> 00:30:36.800
you're going to be
outside of society,

669
00:30:36.904 --> 00:30:38.526
if you don't."

670
00:30:38.629 --> 00:30:40.493
The fact that the British
education system

671
00:30:40.597 --> 00:30:43.462
actually adopted
a dunce's cap --

672
00:30:43.565 --> 00:30:46.051
this pointed cone
that you placed on the head

673
00:30:46.154 --> 00:30:48.639
as the child was isolated
and faced the wall --

674
00:30:48.743 --> 00:30:51.850
was a bizarre,
primitive practice.

675
00:30:51.953 --> 00:30:55.715
This was kind of hand-me-down
from bizarre religious beliefs

676
00:30:55.819 --> 00:30:57.510
that, somehow or other,
the dunce's cap

677
00:30:57.614 --> 00:31:00.997
was a conduit
for God's intelligence.

678
00:31:01.100 --> 00:31:03.654
Complete nonsense
and the effect on children

679
00:31:03.758 --> 00:31:05.725
was like secondary labeling.

680
00:31:05.829 --> 00:31:09.833
You know, you were being
labeled as being stupid,

681
00:31:09.937 --> 00:31:11.800
but then,
you could take on that label

682
00:31:11.904 --> 00:31:15.494
and just start acting stupid
with full license

683
00:31:15.597 --> 00:31:17.289
because that's the role
they've given you.

684
00:31:17.392 --> 00:31:18.911
♪♪

685
00:31:19.015 --> 00:31:22.259
-At school, Rose reverted back
to what she knew --

686
00:31:22.363 --> 00:31:24.675
being a self-absorbed recluse.

687
00:31:24.779 --> 00:31:27.161
-That was her way of surviving

688
00:31:27.264 --> 00:31:29.818
an environment
that she didn't understand.

689
00:31:29.922 --> 00:31:32.614
She was never allowed to play,
in the conventional sense,

690
00:31:32.718 --> 00:31:33.926
with other children,

691
00:31:34.030 --> 00:31:36.825
except in a school form
environment.

692
00:31:36.929 --> 00:31:40.450
The only socialization she got
was within the house.

693
00:31:40.553 --> 00:31:42.210
♪♪

694
00:31:42.314 --> 00:31:45.662
-Rose struggled academically
and was held back a year,

695
00:31:45.765 --> 00:31:49.252
where she gained confidence
being the eldest child in class.

696
00:31:49.355 --> 00:31:52.911
Both her parents now had jobs,
meaning Rose was often left

697
00:31:53.014 --> 00:31:55.396
in charge
of her younger brothers.

698
00:31:55.499 --> 00:31:58.054
-She had always taken
a great interest in dolls

699
00:31:58.157 --> 00:32:00.780
and then, treats
her two younger brothers

700
00:32:00.884 --> 00:32:02.575
as the equivalent of dolls.

701
00:32:02.679 --> 00:32:03.749
She would bathe them.

702
00:32:03.852 --> 00:32:04.784
She would put them to bed.

703
00:32:04.888 --> 00:32:06.855
She would dress them.

704
00:32:06.959 --> 00:32:12.551
Those two younger brothers
were Rose's...playthings.

705
00:32:12.654 --> 00:32:14.829
♪♪

706
00:32:14.933 --> 00:32:16.313
-As Rose matured,

707
00:32:16.417 --> 00:32:20.248
she learnt to use violence
to protect her brothers.

708
00:32:20.352 --> 00:32:22.699
-Rose began to identify
with Bill

709
00:32:22.802 --> 00:32:24.701
and think of herself
being someone

710
00:32:24.804 --> 00:32:27.359
who was strong
and could create fear in others

711
00:32:27.462 --> 00:32:29.085
and this actually led

712
00:32:29.188 --> 00:32:33.779
to Rose going out
and bullying other children.

713
00:32:33.882 --> 00:32:37.921
-Rose reached puberty
before other kids in her class

714
00:32:38.025 --> 00:32:41.545
and, from being a meek,
timid girl who was bullied,

715
00:32:41.649 --> 00:32:45.308
she became this big,
strong girl who could

716
00:32:45.411 --> 00:32:47.034
knock people about, and she did,

717
00:32:47.137 --> 00:32:49.484
because she would protect
her younger brothers,

718
00:32:49.588 --> 00:32:53.143
who were, you know,
skinny little chaps.

719
00:32:53.247 --> 00:32:54.593
-When her brothers
were attacked,

720
00:32:54.696 --> 00:32:56.215
Rose would go after them.

721
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:59.253
Suddenly, the bullied
turns round and bullies back.

722
00:32:59.356 --> 00:33:02.394
She was not going to have
her brothers hurt

723
00:33:02.497 --> 00:33:05.535
and she would lump them,
as they called it.

724
00:33:05.638 --> 00:33:08.814
-So you've got
this interesting dichotomy

725
00:33:08.917 --> 00:33:11.782
between sexuality at one point;

726
00:33:11.886 --> 00:33:16.477
and violence, bullying,
at another.

727
00:33:16.580 --> 00:33:18.444
-Rose would've felt powerful
from that.

728
00:33:18.548 --> 00:33:20.377
She would've felt
in control herself,

729
00:33:20.481 --> 00:33:22.897
where she'd always felt
out of control.

730
00:33:23.001 --> 00:33:24.554
So, now, she has power.

731
00:33:24.657 --> 00:33:25.865
Now, she's enjoying that.

732
00:33:25.969 --> 00:33:27.764
Now, she's going to go out
and do this.

733
00:33:27.867 --> 00:33:30.284
So this makes
quite a dangerous stage

734
00:33:30.387 --> 00:33:32.251
for the next part
of the journey,

735
00:33:32.355 --> 00:33:34.184
where she meets Fred West.

736
00:33:34.288 --> 00:33:37.808
♪♪

737
00:33:37.912 --> 00:33:41.398
-Rose gained confidence
through sex and violence,

738
00:33:41.502 --> 00:33:44.815
passions amplified
by her relationship with Fred,

739
00:33:44.919 --> 00:33:45.989
so they wanted somewhere

740
00:33:46.093 --> 00:33:48.854
to combine both
of these desires.

741
00:33:48.957 --> 00:33:52.444
-This is where Fred goes on
to extend the house

742
00:33:52.547 --> 00:33:56.689
and to develop the basement.

743
00:33:56.793 --> 00:33:59.451
-Fred was very proud
of his cellar.

744
00:33:59.554 --> 00:34:03.041
I can remember, one day, going
through to peg the washing out

745
00:34:03.144 --> 00:34:05.733
and Fred was
out in the back garden,

746
00:34:05.836 --> 00:34:07.286
fiddling about, doing something.

747
00:34:07.390 --> 00:34:08.874
I can't recall what it was.

748
00:34:08.977 --> 00:34:10.738
He said, "Oh, I've repainted
the cellar downstairs.

749
00:34:10.841 --> 00:34:11.739
Do you want to have a look?"

750
00:34:11.842 --> 00:34:13.706
I said, "What's a cellar?"

751
00:34:13.810 --> 00:34:15.984
He said, "It's where
the children go to play."

752
00:34:16.088 --> 00:34:17.400
I said, "Okay."

753
00:34:17.503 --> 00:34:19.643
And I'm claustrophobic,

754
00:34:19.747 --> 00:34:22.232
but I thought,
"Well, don't be rude." [Laughs]

755
00:34:22.336 --> 00:34:23.820
And he took me down
into the cellar,

756
00:34:23.923 --> 00:34:28.031
which was a horrible,
dark, dank place.

757
00:34:28.135 --> 00:34:30.413
[Static crackles]
♪♪

758
00:34:30.516 --> 00:34:32.725
-In the lower basement area,

759
00:34:32.829 --> 00:34:35.556
he decided he was going
to have a torture chamber.

760
00:34:35.659 --> 00:34:39.560
[Static crackling]
♪♪

761
00:34:39.663 --> 00:34:43.391
They both shared
this sadistic view

762
00:34:43.495 --> 00:34:50.191
of subjecting human beings
to horrific circumstances.

763
00:34:50.295 --> 00:34:51.917
[Static crackles]
♪♪

764
00:34:52.020 --> 00:34:56.335
Fred was becoming
a creative psychopath.

765
00:34:56.439 --> 00:35:00.374
His obsession
on all things gynecological

766
00:35:00.477 --> 00:35:06.276
was drawing him into some very,
very sadistic and bizarre ideas.

767
00:35:06.380 --> 00:35:10.315
♪♪

768
00:35:10.418 --> 00:35:11.971
[Dog barks in distance]

769
00:35:12.075 --> 00:35:15.561
-Despite Rose being married
and owning her own home,

770
00:35:15.665 --> 00:35:19.117
her father Bill was still
firmly rooted in her life.

771
00:35:19.220 --> 00:35:20.808
-There was still
a sexual relationship

772
00:35:20.911 --> 00:35:22.223
between Rose
and her father, Bill.

773
00:35:22.327 --> 00:35:24.950
At one point,
he was living in a caravan

774
00:35:25.053 --> 00:35:26.814
at the bottom
of Cromwell Street.

775
00:35:26.917 --> 00:35:29.437
♪♪

776
00:35:29.541 --> 00:35:33.131
-I found Bill a bit

777
00:35:33.234 --> 00:35:36.410
scary, I think, is the easiest
way of describing him.

778
00:35:36.513 --> 00:35:39.689
He kind of like was looking
through me and --

779
00:35:39.792 --> 00:35:40.862
How do you explain it?

780
00:35:40.966 --> 00:35:43.071
Like sizing me up and --

781
00:35:43.175 --> 00:35:45.004
All I know is he sat
with his hand under the table,

782
00:35:45.108 --> 00:35:49.285
which kind of made me feel
a bit at unease.

783
00:35:49.388 --> 00:35:52.011
He was very sort of
concentrating on me.

784
00:35:52.115 --> 00:35:54.566
He did have a look in his eyes
that wasn't very nice.

785
00:35:54.669 --> 00:35:55.946
[Laughs]

786
00:35:56.050 --> 00:35:57.327
I wouldn't like to guess,
to be fair,

787
00:35:57.431 --> 00:35:58.846
what Bill was doing
under that table.

788
00:35:58.949 --> 00:36:00.399
♪♪

789
00:36:00.503 --> 00:36:04.438
-I think Rose was always
fascinated by her father.

790
00:36:04.541 --> 00:36:05.922
They couldn't stay apart.

791
00:36:06.025 --> 00:36:09.995
They were, in a sense,
inextricably linked

792
00:36:10.098 --> 00:36:11.893
and you couldn't break that.

793
00:36:11.997 --> 00:36:13.723
-I mean, I've always found it
quite extraordinary,

794
00:36:13.826 --> 00:36:19.177
how Rose continued to have sex
with her father into adulthood.

795
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:21.662
Whether she got any
sexual satisfaction from it,

796
00:36:21.765 --> 00:36:23.111
I don't know.

797
00:36:23.215 --> 00:36:25.804
And you just get into this
revolting quagmire

798
00:36:25.907 --> 00:36:29.911
of abuse through the
generations, you know.

799
00:36:30.015 --> 00:36:32.983
That sense, of a father's right

800
00:36:33.087 --> 00:36:35.331
to have sex
with his own children

801
00:36:35.434 --> 00:36:38.472
is a thread that runs
through the story

802
00:36:38.575 --> 00:36:42.545
of Rosemary Letts, as she was;
and Frederick West.

803
00:36:42.648 --> 00:36:46.238
♪♪

804
00:36:46.342 --> 00:36:49.207
-Bill remained ever present
in Rose's life

805
00:36:49.310 --> 00:36:51.278
and, with Fred's blessing,
he continued

806
00:36:51.381 --> 00:36:54.073
his sexual relationship
with his daughter.

807
00:36:54.177 --> 00:36:56.455
But what was it
about Bill's upbringing

808
00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:00.079
that made him become a violent
and incestuous father?

809
00:37:00.183 --> 00:37:02.220
-Young Bill Letts
was an only child.

810
00:37:02.323 --> 00:37:04.187
His mother was
a local district nurse.

811
00:37:04.291 --> 00:37:07.742
She was very revered
in the community.

812
00:37:07.846 --> 00:37:09.157
His father came back

813
00:37:09.261 --> 00:37:11.332
from fighting
in the First World War.

814
00:37:11.436 --> 00:37:13.058
When Bill came along,

815
00:37:13.161 --> 00:37:16.441
his father was not
particularly happy about it.

816
00:37:16.544 --> 00:37:18.270
His father didn't want him

817
00:37:18.374 --> 00:37:20.445
and told him
that he wasn't wanted,

818
00:37:20.548 --> 00:37:22.240
that he was a mistake,

819
00:37:22.343 --> 00:37:25.657
which was an awful thing
to say to a young boy.

820
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:27.452
-Bill Letts' mother, Bertha,

821
00:37:27.555 --> 00:37:31.076
overcompensated for the neglect
by his father, William,

822
00:37:31.179 --> 00:37:34.528
so Bill was mollycoddled
to the extreme.

823
00:37:34.631 --> 00:37:36.564
-My mum went to school
with Bill Letts.

824
00:37:36.668 --> 00:37:38.428
His mother used to bring him
to school,

825
00:37:38.532 --> 00:37:40.465
be there to meet him,
take him home.

826
00:37:40.568 --> 00:37:43.468
-His mother would always
accompany him to school

827
00:37:43.571 --> 00:37:47.437
and brush his hair as soon
as she took his cap off.

828
00:37:47.541 --> 00:37:50.233
-I mean, he must've been
about 11,

829
00:37:50.337 --> 00:37:53.823
not, like, a little three-,
four-year-old, you know?

830
00:37:53.926 --> 00:37:57.275
-Because of Bertha's
mollycoddling of her son,

831
00:37:57.378 --> 00:38:00.830
he really had very few,
if any, friends at all,

832
00:38:00.933 --> 00:38:03.142
so he was very isolated.

833
00:38:03.246 --> 00:38:07.354
We see aspects of that again
in Rose's childhood.

834
00:38:07.457 --> 00:38:11.289
-He was another one that
he wasn't allowed out, either.

835
00:38:11.392 --> 00:38:14.740
And he was very quiet
at school, as well,

836
00:38:14.844 --> 00:38:16.673
much like his own children were.

837
00:38:16.777 --> 00:38:19.711
-I think it's a perfectly
fair assumption to say

838
00:38:19.814 --> 00:38:25.303
that Bill Letts, as a child,
was intimidated a good deal

839
00:38:25.406 --> 00:38:27.201
and I think he responded
to that intimidation --

840
00:38:27.305 --> 00:38:28.616
bullying, if you like --

841
00:38:28.720 --> 00:38:30.825
by responding
with equal violence himself,

842
00:38:30.929 --> 00:38:32.137
as soon as he became an adult.

843
00:38:32.240 --> 00:38:35.692
-There were strong rumors
in the community.

844
00:38:35.796 --> 00:38:37.349
Parents told their children
to keep away

845
00:38:37.453 --> 00:38:39.178
from old William Letts

846
00:38:39.282 --> 00:38:42.492
because he couldn't be
trusted near children.

847
00:38:42.596 --> 00:38:46.841
So, whether Bill was abused
or not, we don't know,

848
00:38:46.945 --> 00:38:49.603
but, of course,
there is a chance, you know.

849
00:38:49.706 --> 00:38:51.018
-Bill's father, William,

850
00:38:51.121 --> 00:38:53.710
was known to have
an extremely high sex drive,

851
00:38:53.814 --> 00:38:56.023
something that would
span generations,

852
00:38:56.126 --> 00:39:01.304
as both Bill and Rose inherited
an insatiable appetite for sex.

853
00:39:01.408 --> 00:39:02.857
-Well, he certainly was
a strange man.

854
00:39:02.961 --> 00:39:05.066
I never liked the look
of him, anyway.

855
00:39:05.170 --> 00:39:06.585
I think my mum called him
a gigolo.

856
00:39:06.689 --> 00:39:08.863
Whatever that might mean,
I don't know.

857
00:39:08.967 --> 00:39:10.278
-Rather than having a job,

858
00:39:10.382 --> 00:39:12.764
he seemed to flit round
from woman to woman,

859
00:39:12.867 --> 00:39:16.802
like as a butler-cum-gigolo.

860
00:39:16.906 --> 00:39:18.770
-It was not only
a high sex drive

861
00:39:18.873 --> 00:39:21.531
that Bill and Rose
inherited from William.

862
00:39:21.635 --> 00:39:24.465
They would also inherit
an obsession for cleaning.

863
00:39:24.569 --> 00:39:27.813
-William Letts was absolutely
obsessed with cleanliness,

864
00:39:27.917 --> 00:39:30.264
bleaching the house
top to bottom,

865
00:39:30.368 --> 00:39:34.233
nothing could be out of place,
and Bill had to follow suit.

866
00:39:34.337 --> 00:39:36.684
And then, unfortunately,

867
00:39:36.788 --> 00:39:39.515
Bill did follow suit,
to the Nth degree,

868
00:39:39.618 --> 00:39:43.035
and that would carry on
into his marriage.

869
00:39:43.139 --> 00:39:46.418
-In 1942, Bill married Daisy.

870
00:39:46.522 --> 00:39:49.732
A year later, they moved
into their new council home,

871
00:39:49.835 --> 00:39:52.838
on Morwenna Park Road
in Northam, Devon.

872
00:39:52.942 --> 00:39:55.979
Bill and Daisy would go on
to have seven children,

873
00:39:56.083 --> 00:39:58.672
Rose being the fifth to arrive.

874
00:39:58.775 --> 00:40:01.364
But Bill was hiding
a secret diagnosis

875
00:40:01.468 --> 00:40:05.886
that would cause
his paranoia to intensify.

876
00:40:05.989 --> 00:40:10.546
-Bill was said to have
severe psychotic episodes.

877
00:40:10.649 --> 00:40:15.516
He had been diagnosed
as a paranoid schizophrenic

878
00:40:15.620 --> 00:40:17.587
when he was a teenager

879
00:40:17.691 --> 00:40:22.109
and that had never been
disclosed to the family

880
00:40:22.212 --> 00:40:24.422
and he remained untreated.

881
00:40:24.525 --> 00:40:26.216
He would think people
were talking about him

882
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:28.943
and have a go at his wife
all the time.

883
00:40:29.047 --> 00:40:30.393
If she was even talking
to the neighbors,

884
00:40:30.497 --> 00:40:32.153
he would hit her
and pull her in.

885
00:40:32.257 --> 00:40:35.812
The police were called.
Nothing happened.

886
00:40:35.916 --> 00:40:39.678
He seemed to be very OCD,
as well --

887
00:40:39.782 --> 00:40:42.647
always on at his wife,
always on at the children,

888
00:40:42.750 --> 00:40:44.442
"Keep the place clean,"
you know?

889
00:40:44.545 --> 00:40:48.756
And he would come home
and shout and thrash them.

890
00:40:48.860 --> 00:40:51.000
-In fear of violence from Bill,

891
00:40:51.103 --> 00:40:53.140
Daisy would also develop
an obsession

892
00:40:53.243 --> 00:40:55.383
for keeping everything clean.

893
00:40:55.487 --> 00:40:58.317
-Cleanliness, that was
the main thing with her.

894
00:40:58.421 --> 00:41:00.596
She used to scrub, scrub, scrub.

895
00:41:00.699 --> 00:41:03.253
The backyard, you know,
she'd be out there

896
00:41:03.357 --> 00:41:07.223
scrubbing that
with a hosepipe and bleach.

897
00:41:07.326 --> 00:41:09.708
-Daisy's obsession
became so intense

898
00:41:09.812 --> 00:41:11.434
that the children
were not allowed out,

899
00:41:11.538 --> 00:41:13.712
in case they came home dirty.

900
00:41:13.816 --> 00:41:15.231
But, on one occasion,

901
00:41:15.334 --> 00:41:19.269
Rose's older sister decided
to go out to play.

902
00:41:19.373 --> 00:41:22.376
-Rose's oldest sister
was a little bit rebellious

903
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:24.758
and I recall one time
when we took her out

904
00:41:24.861 --> 00:41:26.207
for the afternoon,

905
00:41:26.311 --> 00:41:29.141
go swimming
and ride the horses out there

906
00:41:29.245 --> 00:41:31.419
and, I mean, we used
to get filthy out there,

907
00:41:31.523 --> 00:41:33.939
really, rolling around.

908
00:41:34.043 --> 00:41:36.666
She really got so excited,
she was almost manic.

909
00:41:36.770 --> 00:41:39.876
She'd laugh and giggle
and prance around.

910
00:41:39.980 --> 00:41:44.087
-But this rare, fun-filled day
would come at a price.

911
00:41:44.191 --> 00:41:46.434
-When she got home,
stinking of horses,

912
00:41:46.538 --> 00:41:49.610
that's when she got
this hell of a beating.

913
00:41:49.714 --> 00:41:51.854
Daisy was hosing her down
in the garden.

914
00:41:51.957 --> 00:41:53.649
She was screaming and screaming,

915
00:41:53.752 --> 00:41:55.858
stripped naked,
being hosed down

916
00:41:55.961 --> 00:41:58.239
with cold water, obviously.

917
00:41:58.343 --> 00:42:02.312
Oh, it was awful to hear.

918
00:42:02.416 --> 00:42:04.522
And that's when
my mother intervened

919
00:42:04.625 --> 00:42:06.800
and then she took her in.

920
00:42:06.903 --> 00:42:09.354
My mum, she really went onto me.

921
00:42:09.457 --> 00:42:11.494
She said,
"Don't ever take her out again

922
00:42:11.598 --> 00:42:13.772
because you've caused
that girl to have a hiding.

923
00:42:13.876 --> 00:42:16.464
She gets enough of that,
anyway."

924
00:42:16.568 --> 00:42:19.847
-Yes, Daisy did shout
and hit the children, as well,

925
00:42:19.951 --> 00:42:24.645
but I think she was trying very
hard to keep everything tidy,

926
00:42:24.749 --> 00:42:27.337
just so,
and bleaching everything

927
00:42:27.441 --> 00:42:29.270
so that he wouldn't come home

928
00:42:29.374 --> 00:42:32.411
and have one of these terrible
rages where he would hit them.

929
00:42:32.515 --> 00:42:34.413
He would do things
like spoil the food

930
00:42:34.517 --> 00:42:37.934
and tip the dustbin out
all across the kitchen.

931
00:42:38.038 --> 00:42:42.352
So the woman had a very,
very hard time with him.

932
00:42:42.456 --> 00:42:47.668
-He bullied, intimidated,
and, indeed, in the end,

933
00:42:47.772 --> 00:42:50.844
terrified his wife, Daisy.

934
00:42:50.947 --> 00:42:53.467
That awful,
worst kind of bully --

935
00:42:53.571 --> 00:42:54.951
a coward, at one moment;

936
00:42:55.055 --> 00:42:58.403
and then, vicious to those
who couldn't fight back.

937
00:42:58.506 --> 00:42:59.784
♪♪

938
00:42:59.887 --> 00:43:03.097
-Bill would put on this
very pleasant face

939
00:43:03.201 --> 00:43:05.065
to most of the neighbors.

940
00:43:05.168 --> 00:43:06.549
He was very charming.

941
00:43:06.653 --> 00:43:08.758
So, of course,
people won't believe that.

942
00:43:08.862 --> 00:43:13.798
So he has this kind of
friendly street angel;

943
00:43:13.901 --> 00:43:16.214
and then, he's this
house devil face.

944
00:43:16.317 --> 00:43:18.043
[Static crackles]
♪♪

945
00:43:18.147 --> 00:43:20.425
-And, just like her father,

946
00:43:20.528 --> 00:43:23.324
Rose developed an appetite
for coercive control

947
00:43:23.428 --> 00:43:25.050
when she ventured
into adulthood.

948
00:43:25.154 --> 00:43:27.639
♪♪

949
00:43:27.743 --> 00:43:30.435
Fred and Rose would drive
around Gloucestershire,

950
00:43:30.538 --> 00:43:35.095
searching for girls to lure back
to 25 Cromwell Street.

951
00:43:35.198 --> 00:43:37.960
They would get a babysitter in
and they would go out.

952
00:43:38.063 --> 00:43:41.688
They pick up Caroline Owens,
who's hitchhiking home

953
00:43:41.791 --> 00:43:43.344
and lives in the Forest of Dean.

954
00:43:43.448 --> 00:43:45.036
Rose is sitting there.

955
00:43:45.139 --> 00:43:48.626
She has a baby, she's pregnant,

956
00:43:48.729 --> 00:43:51.387
and she's grooming this girlie,

957
00:43:51.490 --> 00:43:54.045
like enticing her
to get into the car,

958
00:43:54.148 --> 00:43:56.012
speaking in this lovely voice.

959
00:43:56.116 --> 00:43:57.635
And also sitting there
with a baby,

960
00:43:57.738 --> 00:44:00.499
which they both know
is going to make any young girl

961
00:44:00.603 --> 00:44:03.226
feel quite sort of safe
with them.

962
00:44:03.330 --> 00:44:05.953
I think both of them,
they're psychopaths

963
00:44:06.057 --> 00:44:07.955
and they know how to charm,

964
00:44:08.059 --> 00:44:11.890
so they can present
so well to people.

965
00:44:11.994 --> 00:44:14.617
So, of course, Caroline gets in.

966
00:44:14.721 --> 00:44:17.240
-The couple charm
and coerce Caroline

967
00:44:17.344 --> 00:44:21.210
into coming to live with them
as their in-house nanny.

968
00:44:21.313 --> 00:44:26.318
But it's soon clear Rose
has an alternative agenda.

969
00:44:26.422 --> 00:44:29.770
-And they start their
sadistical games with her.

970
00:44:29.874 --> 00:44:31.461
-They started to get heavy
with her.

971
00:44:31.565 --> 00:44:33.636
I think they would barge
into the bathroom

972
00:44:33.740 --> 00:44:35.327
when she was in the bathroom.

973
00:44:35.431 --> 00:44:37.088
She felt uncomfortable
with them.

974
00:44:37.191 --> 00:44:40.781
They're both trying to invite
her in to have sex with them.

975
00:44:40.885 --> 00:44:41.782
-Rose didn't stop.

976
00:44:41.886 --> 00:44:43.439
She wanted to kiss her,

977
00:44:43.542 --> 00:44:45.096
Fred was egging them on,

978
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:47.961
so she got her stuff and went.

979
00:44:48.064 --> 00:44:50.273
-Caroline managed to escape.

980
00:44:50.377 --> 00:44:52.828
But it was short-lived.

981
00:44:52.931 --> 00:44:55.382
-And then, they again coaxed her

982
00:44:55.485 --> 00:44:58.040
when she was hitchhiking
on a later occasion.

983
00:44:58.143 --> 00:44:59.662
They got her in the car,
beat her.

984
00:44:59.766 --> 00:45:03.597
Fred had punched her
and quietened her,

985
00:45:03.701 --> 00:45:07.049
so that Rose could do
what she wanted with her.

986
00:45:07.152 --> 00:45:10.846
-Rose scratched and brutalized
her in the back of the car.

987
00:45:10.949 --> 00:45:13.918
When she got back
to Cromwell Street,

988
00:45:14.021 --> 00:45:19.233
this time, it was a brutal
and tortuous regime.

989
00:45:19.337 --> 00:45:21.339
She was being held there
and beaten

990
00:45:21.442 --> 00:45:23.030
and she feared for her life.

991
00:45:23.134 --> 00:45:24.825
-Fred was actually
restraining her,

992
00:45:24.929 --> 00:45:27.414
keeping her there for Rose.

993
00:45:27.517 --> 00:45:31.832
He said he kidnapped her
for Rose.

994
00:45:31.936 --> 00:45:35.042
-Fred's behavior was sadism

995
00:45:35.146 --> 00:45:39.253
and advising her that
he was going to beat her

996
00:45:39.357 --> 00:45:43.741
and then, he meekly asserted
that he would have sex with her,

997
00:45:43.844 --> 00:45:46.053
but she mustn't tell Rose.

998
00:45:46.157 --> 00:45:48.746
Eventually, Caroline Owens
was able to escape

999
00:45:48.849 --> 00:45:50.713
and, as a result of that,

1000
00:45:50.817 --> 00:45:53.164
her parents reported
the matter to the police.

1001
00:45:53.267 --> 00:45:56.926
♪♪

1002
00:45:57.030 --> 00:45:59.929
-They were taken to court
and Fred put his suit on,

1003
00:46:00.033 --> 00:46:03.830
presented well, they thought
he looked a reasonable chap.

1004
00:46:03.933 --> 00:46:06.246
And Rose was like
heavily pregnant

1005
00:46:06.349 --> 00:46:09.042
and telling them
that she was going to

1006
00:46:09.145 --> 00:46:13.701
have some kind of therapy
for her, you know, ways.

1007
00:46:13.805 --> 00:46:15.117
And the charges were reduced

1008
00:46:15.220 --> 00:46:18.292
because Caroline couldn't
face them in court.

1009
00:46:18.396 --> 00:46:22.055
-A charge of rape was proffered,

1010
00:46:22.158 --> 00:46:25.783
but it was plea-bargained
down to a sexual assault

1011
00:46:25.886 --> 00:46:27.439
in a magistrates court.

1012
00:46:27.543 --> 00:46:31.512
They were both fined £25
and had a rap on the knuckles.

1013
00:46:31.616 --> 00:46:32.790
I think their solicitor said,

1014
00:46:32.893 --> 00:46:34.515
"Well, you know,
they're a young couple.

1015
00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:36.069
They won't do it again,"

1016
00:46:36.172 --> 00:46:38.450
and, extraordinarily,
the magistrates bought that.

1017
00:46:38.554 --> 00:46:40.694
-And the interesting thing
is that neither of them

1018
00:46:40.798 --> 00:46:43.801
were embarrassed about that,
either, particularly Rose,

1019
00:46:43.904 --> 00:46:46.527
because she was
a complete narcissist.

1020
00:46:46.631 --> 00:46:48.633
It meant nothing to her.

1021
00:46:48.736 --> 00:46:50.877
-It was a kind of abandonment,
you know.

1022
00:46:50.980 --> 00:46:54.397
Somehow, they were getting
away with it.

1023
00:46:54.501 --> 00:46:55.709
-They were given carte blanche,

1024
00:46:55.813 --> 00:46:58.470
so, the next time,
they were going to kill.

1025
00:46:58.574 --> 00:47:00.956
Nobody is going to escape them,
the next time,

1026
00:47:01.059 --> 00:47:02.371
to live to tell the tale.

1027
00:47:02.474 --> 00:47:04.442
♪♪

1028
00:47:04.545 --> 00:47:07.963
-With zero respect for the law,
Fred and Rose continued

1029
00:47:08.066 --> 00:47:10.551
using the same method
of driving around,

1030
00:47:10.655 --> 00:47:12.864
pursuing young,
vulnerable women,

1031
00:47:12.968 --> 00:47:17.110
often calling on their lodger
Jayne to babysit for them.

1032
00:47:17.213 --> 00:47:18.456
-Looking after the younger ones,

1033
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:21.459
I formed quite
a friendship with them.

1034
00:47:21.562 --> 00:47:23.737
They were dear little things.

1035
00:47:23.841 --> 00:47:27.258
It upsets me to think that I was
looking after their children

1036
00:47:27.361 --> 00:47:30.986
for them to be evil people.

1037
00:47:31.089 --> 00:47:33.540
-Using the same ruse
of needing a nanny,

1038
00:47:33.643 --> 00:47:35.922
they lured 19-year-old
Lynda Gough back

1039
00:47:36.025 --> 00:47:39.787
to their cellar
in Cromwell Street.

1040
00:47:39.891 --> 00:47:43.791
-They trussed her up
and killed her.

1041
00:47:43.895 --> 00:47:46.864
It was a horrendous murder.

1042
00:47:46.967 --> 00:47:51.489
And she was buried outside
by the bathroom area.

1043
00:47:51.592 --> 00:47:54.319
♪♪

1044
00:47:54.423 --> 00:47:56.114
Rose immediately went
through her clothes

1045
00:47:56.218 --> 00:47:57.529
and put her clothes on.

1046
00:47:57.633 --> 00:48:01.775
She could just go
and kill this girl with Fred

1047
00:48:01.879 --> 00:48:05.675
and go and put
the girl's clothes on.

1048
00:48:05.779 --> 00:48:07.919
-When Lynda's mother
came looking for her,

1049
00:48:08.023 --> 00:48:11.819
she witnessed Rose's
narcissism firsthand.

1050
00:48:11.923 --> 00:48:15.064
-Lynda Gough's mother came
to find her daughter

1051
00:48:15.168 --> 00:48:19.241
and saw some of her clothes
blowing in the wind on the line

1052
00:48:19.344 --> 00:48:22.589
and Rose in her slippers
and cardigan.

1053
00:48:22.692 --> 00:48:24.246
And she was just,
"Oh, I never heard of her."

1054
00:48:24.349 --> 00:48:27.076
Well, of course she had,
you know.

1055
00:48:27.180 --> 00:48:29.285
The mother knew she was lying.

1056
00:48:29.389 --> 00:48:32.357
-It was, in fact,
her lack of empathy

1057
00:48:32.461 --> 00:48:35.153
and her association
with Fred West

1058
00:48:35.257 --> 00:48:37.293
that led her to be a killer.

1059
00:48:37.397 --> 00:48:41.194
♪♪

1060
00:48:41.297 --> 00:48:42.609
-Within months
of killing Lynda Gough,

1061
00:48:42.712 --> 00:48:44.576
Fred and Rose struck again.

1062
00:48:44.680 --> 00:48:46.751
♪♪

1063
00:48:46.854 --> 00:48:50.341
This time, they abducted
15-year-old Carol Ann Cooper.

1064
00:48:50.444 --> 00:48:53.240
♪♪

1065
00:48:53.344 --> 00:48:56.105
-She'd been having a night out
with her boyfriend

1066
00:48:56.209 --> 00:49:01.835
and they followed her
in the car,

1067
00:49:01.939 --> 00:49:04.907
picked her up
when she got off the bus,

1068
00:49:05.011 --> 00:49:09.222
took her back,
and it was a horrendous murder.

1069
00:49:09.325 --> 00:49:11.672
♪♪

1070
00:49:11.776 --> 00:49:15.366
-Over a frenzied period
spanning less than two years,

1071
00:49:15.469 --> 00:49:19.611
six young females had been lured
to 25 Cromwell Street,

1072
00:49:19.715 --> 00:49:22.166
where they were tortured,
murdered,

1073
00:49:22.269 --> 00:49:24.996
and buried
beneath the family home.

1074
00:49:25.100 --> 00:49:28.068
-I think they were totally
out of control.

1075
00:49:28.172 --> 00:49:31.520
They became more and more so
as they got away with it.

1076
00:49:31.623 --> 00:49:35.489
-This is fairly normal
for serial killers

1077
00:49:35.593 --> 00:49:37.698
who get a lot of pleasure

1078
00:49:37.802 --> 00:49:40.701
from protracted torture
and killing of others,

1079
00:49:40.805 --> 00:49:45.948
in that the next one has
to be more.

1080
00:49:46.052 --> 00:49:49.124
-She was bound up with duct tape
and left her eyes,

1081
00:49:49.227 --> 00:49:52.127
so that she could see what
they were going to do to her.

1082
00:49:52.230 --> 00:49:53.404
[Static crackles]
♪♪

1083
00:49:53.507 --> 00:49:54.992
-The more macabre nature

1084
00:49:55.095 --> 00:49:57.787
of this torture
got progressively worse,

1085
00:49:57.891 --> 00:49:59.755
with one killing
following another.

1086
00:49:59.858 --> 00:50:01.308
[Static crackles]
♪♪

1087
00:50:01.412 --> 00:50:05.899
-Mummified and a straw was poked
through, up her nose,

1088
00:50:06.003 --> 00:50:08.626
so that they could keep
this young girl alive

1089
00:50:08.729 --> 00:50:10.110
while they tortured her.

1090
00:50:10.214 --> 00:50:14.011
-Extreme bondage,
metal tubes, binding,

1091
00:50:14.114 --> 00:50:18.498
hanging people from the ceiling,
like pieces of meat.

1092
00:50:18.601 --> 00:50:23.641
More sadism, more paraphernalia,
more suffering.

1093
00:50:23.744 --> 00:50:27.438
-Rose was known to use
very large vibrators on them,

1094
00:50:27.541 --> 00:50:32.063
you know, so huge that they
did massive damage.

1095
00:50:32.167 --> 00:50:35.791
-It got worse and worse
and worse.

1096
00:50:35.894 --> 00:50:38.000
-Anyone who saw any
of the pictures

1097
00:50:38.104 --> 00:50:40.451
of what happened
to those girls --

1098
00:50:40.554 --> 00:50:43.316
you know, the missing bones,
the kneecaps removed,

1099
00:50:43.419 --> 00:50:48.666
the hanging in the cellar,
the awful bindings with --

1100
00:50:48.769 --> 00:50:54.292
it just sends a shudder
down my spine, to this day.

1101
00:50:54.396 --> 00:50:56.329
-Rose was very, very cruel.

1102
00:50:56.432 --> 00:50:58.400
She wanted to hurt women
as much as she could.

1103
00:50:58.503 --> 00:51:01.196
It was something in her.

1104
00:51:01.299 --> 00:51:03.577
It's almost like killing
a version of herself.

1105
00:51:03.681 --> 00:51:08.789
♪♪

1106
00:51:08.893 --> 00:51:12.793
-This may have been her way
of eradicating her past,

1107
00:51:12.897 --> 00:51:17.626
getting rid of all those
thoughts and vulnerabilities

1108
00:51:17.729 --> 00:51:20.491
that she had felt
from her early childhood.

1109
00:51:20.594 --> 00:51:21.526
-She had no power.

1110
00:51:21.630 --> 00:51:23.804
She was oppressed, as she said.

1111
00:51:23.908 --> 00:51:29.224
It was her way of taking out her
revenge on these young girls.

1112
00:51:29.327 --> 00:51:30.673
And she was so cruel.

1113
00:51:30.777 --> 00:51:32.917
[Static crackles]
♪♪

1114
00:51:33.020 --> 00:51:34.781
-And Rose would not have
to search far

1115
00:51:34.884 --> 00:51:36.334
for the next victim --

1116
00:51:36.438 --> 00:51:37.853
Shirley Robinson,

1117
00:51:37.956 --> 00:51:41.408
one of the Wests' lodgers
at 25 Cromwell Street.

1118
00:51:41.512 --> 00:51:43.272
-I made a very good friend
out of Shirley.

1119
00:51:43.376 --> 00:51:46.931
We'd cook a Pot Noodle together
and sit and talk for ages.

1120
00:51:47.034 --> 00:51:49.761
Her and Rose very much looked
like each other, so, sometimes,

1121
00:51:49.865 --> 00:51:51.522
I'd go into the kitchen,
take a quick look,

1122
00:51:51.625 --> 00:51:53.558
because Shirley would very often
be down in the kitchen.

1123
00:51:53.662 --> 00:51:55.836
I'd say, "Hi, Rose.

1124
00:51:55.940 --> 00:51:58.011
Oh, sorry, Shirley.
It's you."

1125
00:51:58.115 --> 00:52:02.015
-It was not only looks that
Shirley and Rose had in common.

1126
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:03.568
I didn't realize that Shirley

1127
00:52:03.672 --> 00:52:05.156
was having a relationship
with Fred.

1128
00:52:05.260 --> 00:52:07.262
I found out at the end
that she'd got pregnant by Fred,

1129
00:52:07.365 --> 00:52:10.023
so I thought it was just one
of those things that happened.

1130
00:52:10.127 --> 00:52:13.233
As her and Rose were
so friendly, I didn't like

1131
00:52:13.337 --> 00:52:15.304
put the two and two together
because, obviously,

1132
00:52:15.408 --> 00:52:17.617
if Rose was having men in,

1133
00:52:17.720 --> 00:52:19.653
what's Fred doing
to other women? [Laughs]

1134
00:52:19.757 --> 00:52:22.035
[Static crackles]
-Today, Royale Robinson,

1135
00:52:22.139 --> 00:52:24.865
whose daughter Shirley Ann
was found in the garden,

1136
00:52:24.969 --> 00:52:27.247
along with her unborn child.

1137
00:52:27.351 --> 00:52:31.044
She was killed
by Frederick and Rosemary West.

1138
00:52:31.148 --> 00:52:33.805
-I just thought,
"Maybe she's not able

1139
00:52:33.909 --> 00:52:35.152
to live in one room
with the baby,

1140
00:52:35.255 --> 00:52:38.534
so she's moved on
and found somewhere else."

1141
00:52:38.638 --> 00:52:40.847
-Shirley's remains were buried
in the garden,

1142
00:52:40.950 --> 00:52:44.471
alongside her
and Fred's unborn baby.

1143
00:52:44.575 --> 00:52:47.267
-To be told that Shirley
had left, Shirley had gone,

1144
00:52:47.371 --> 00:52:51.029
none of it, none of this,
made any sense, whatsoever.

1145
00:52:51.133 --> 00:52:54.343
-Jayne had no idea she was
living in the same house

1146
00:52:54.447 --> 00:52:57.657
with two sadistic
serial killers.

1147
00:52:57.760 --> 00:52:58.899
-Fred was just --

1148
00:52:59.003 --> 00:53:00.142
He was a gentleman.

1149
00:53:00.246 --> 00:53:02.040
He was very pleasant,
very polite.

1150
00:53:02.144 --> 00:53:03.697
He was constantly working
in the house.

1151
00:53:03.801 --> 00:53:05.458
Slap of paint here,
a bit of work there,

1152
00:53:05.561 --> 00:53:06.942
a bit of digging in the garden.

1153
00:53:07.045 --> 00:53:08.633
He was always there,
very early in the morning,

1154
00:53:08.737 --> 00:53:10.290
before everybody else.

1155
00:53:10.394 --> 00:53:13.328
Rose was generally
not a morning person.

1156
00:53:13.431 --> 00:53:14.881
She used to walk around
with her cardigan

1157
00:53:14.984 --> 00:53:16.676
and her trainer socks
and skirt on,

1158
00:53:16.779 --> 00:53:18.609
barking at the children --
not speaking to them,

1159
00:53:18.712 --> 00:53:20.197
barking orders at them.

1160
00:53:20.300 --> 00:53:21.612
Anne Marie was scorned upon --

1161
00:53:21.715 --> 00:53:23.372
"You're not getting breakfast
fast enough.

1162
00:53:23.476 --> 00:53:25.098
You can't give them toast
without giving them a drink,

1163
00:53:25.202 --> 00:53:28.550
you stupid --" so,
very demeaning to the children.

1164
00:53:28.653 --> 00:53:30.931
Rose was definitely in charge
in the West household.

1165
00:53:31.035 --> 00:53:33.520
There was no denying that.
[Laughs]

1166
00:53:33.624 --> 00:53:35.142
-Of all the West children,

1167
00:53:35.246 --> 00:53:37.524
it was Rose's eldest daughter,
Heather,

1168
00:53:37.628 --> 00:53:39.492
who left a lasting impression.

1169
00:53:39.595 --> 00:53:42.702
-Heather, quite
a switched-on little girl.

1170
00:53:42.805 --> 00:53:44.600
We'd sit and talk
about silly little things,

1171
00:53:44.704 --> 00:53:47.327
you know, hair and,
"Will you wear makeup later on

1172
00:53:47.431 --> 00:53:48.777
and what do you want to do
as a job?"

1173
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:50.917
So she was just
an inquisitive little body.

1174
00:53:51.020 --> 00:53:53.022
♪♪

1175
00:53:53.126 --> 00:53:55.439
-But, one evening,
Jayne was woken up

1176
00:53:55.542 --> 00:53:58.890
by something that would
change her life forever.

1177
00:53:58.994 --> 00:54:00.892
-Something disturbed me.

1178
00:54:00.996 --> 00:54:03.412
And, initially, I couldn't
quite make out what it was

1179
00:54:03.516 --> 00:54:06.450
and then, I realized
it was in the cellar.

1180
00:54:06.553 --> 00:54:08.452
I could hear Heather screaming,
"Stop it, Daddy!

1181
00:54:08.555 --> 00:54:09.763
Stop it, Daddy!"

1182
00:54:09.867 --> 00:54:10.799
And then, it seemed to stop

1183
00:54:10.902 --> 00:54:12.145
and then, it would happen again.

1184
00:54:12.249 --> 00:54:13.974
And this happened
for a few nights in a row.

1185
00:54:14.078 --> 00:54:16.391
[Static crackles]
[Rotors whirring]

1186
00:54:16.494 --> 00:54:19.394
-A specialist search team
arrived at Cromwell Street

1187
00:54:19.497 --> 00:54:22.949
with a warrant to search
for Heather West.

1188
00:54:23.052 --> 00:54:26.021
-I put the news on and the
first thing I saw was Heather.

1189
00:54:26.124 --> 00:54:28.057
I thought, "Oh, my gosh!

1190
00:54:28.161 --> 00:54:30.094
Heather's been killed."

1191
00:54:30.197 --> 00:54:32.579
[Static crackles]
In 1992,

1192
00:54:32.683 --> 00:54:34.857
15 years after Jayne left,

1193
00:54:34.961 --> 00:54:36.997
one of the children reported
to police

1194
00:54:37.101 --> 00:54:38.861
they'd been raped by Fred.

1195
00:54:38.965 --> 00:54:41.692
Five of the West children
were taken into care

1196
00:54:41.795 --> 00:54:43.935
whilst police investigated.

1197
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:45.109
The following year,

1198
00:54:45.212 --> 00:54:46.800
social workers reported

1199
00:54:46.904 --> 00:54:49.976
that the West children had
claimed that Fred often joked

1200
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:52.910
that Heather was buried
beneath the patio.

1201
00:54:53.013 --> 00:54:54.532
In 1994,

1202
00:54:54.636 --> 00:54:57.086
whilst investigating
Heather's whereabouts,

1203
00:54:57.190 --> 00:55:00.814
police obtained a search warrant
for 25 Cromwell Street

1204
00:55:00.918 --> 00:55:02.299
and, as Fred was led away,

1205
00:55:02.402 --> 00:55:04.370
he confessed
to Heather's murder.

1206
00:55:04.473 --> 00:55:07.027
-The back garden
of 25 Cromwell Street.

1207
00:55:07.131 --> 00:55:10.237
He'd never told his wife
what he'd done.

1208
00:55:10.341 --> 00:55:13.862
-When I saw Rose
at Cheltenham Police Station,

1209
00:55:13.965 --> 00:55:17.072
she was really very, very upset

1210
00:55:17.175 --> 00:55:18.867
and it was almost a mantra that,

1211
00:55:18.970 --> 00:55:21.939
"It was that flipping
Fred West, you know.

1212
00:55:22.042 --> 00:55:25.183
What had he effing been doing?"

1213
00:55:25.287 --> 00:55:27.841
-The first time I ever heard
Frederick West describing

1214
00:55:27.945 --> 00:55:32.536
how he dismembered
his daughter, Heather,

1215
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:35.470
and stuck her in a sack,
bin bags --

1216
00:55:35.573 --> 00:55:37.472
"I couldn't get her
in the dustbin, so I thought,

1217
00:55:37.575 --> 00:55:39.232
'I'll cut her legs off.'"

1218
00:55:39.336 --> 00:55:41.234
Then, he cuts her head off.

1219
00:55:41.338 --> 00:55:43.132
It's unimaginable.

1220
00:55:43.236 --> 00:55:45.963
♪♪

1221
00:55:46.066 --> 00:55:48.137
-Officers who found
Heather's remains

1222
00:55:48.241 --> 00:55:51.140
found signs
that she was not alone.

1223
00:55:51.244 --> 00:55:52.866
-When this story happened,

1224
00:55:52.970 --> 00:55:56.180
it was a huge shock
to the people of Gloucester.

1225
00:55:56.283 --> 00:55:58.285
The whole thing became a bit
of a circus, really,

1226
00:55:58.389 --> 00:56:01.254
as far as the press
and media interest.

1227
00:56:01.358 --> 00:56:04.015
It was moving so quickly,
there was so much happening,

1228
00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:05.362
there were so many developments,

1229
00:56:05.465 --> 00:56:07.122
in terms of bodies being found.

1230
00:56:07.225 --> 00:56:10.367
-West had hinted that there were
further bodies to be discovered.

1231
00:56:10.470 --> 00:56:13.024
He led detectives
down to the cellar,

1232
00:56:13.128 --> 00:56:15.406
indicating where
other victims were hidden.

1233
00:56:15.510 --> 00:56:17.097
-Human remains found
in the cellar

1234
00:56:17.201 --> 00:56:19.893
are carried away
for forensic examination.

1235
00:56:19.997 --> 00:56:22.551
-Despite Fred
claiming all responsibility

1236
00:56:22.655 --> 00:56:25.036
and confessing
where the victims were buried,

1237
00:56:25.140 --> 00:56:26.831
police had sufficient evidence

1238
00:56:26.935 --> 00:56:29.420
to arrest Rose
on suspicion of murder.

1239
00:56:29.524 --> 00:56:31.146
-When I visited Rose,

1240
00:56:31.249 --> 00:56:35.668
she was relaxed
and not kind of dumbstruck.

1241
00:56:35.771 --> 00:56:39.223
She did seem slightly removed
from it all.

1242
00:56:39.326 --> 00:56:41.190
-She just --
It's blocked out.

1243
00:56:41.294 --> 00:56:44.504
As her mother used to say, "She
held herself in as a child,"

1244
00:56:44.608 --> 00:56:47.645
and maybe that's
what she's doing.

1245
00:56:47.749 --> 00:56:49.544
-That probably speaks volumes

1246
00:56:49.647 --> 00:56:54.169
about this curious dichotomy
in Rose's makeup.

1247
00:56:54.272 --> 00:57:01.625
You'd expect it would prompt
some strong need to unload,

1248
00:57:01.728 --> 00:57:03.627
but there was none of that.

1249
00:57:03.730 --> 00:57:06.871
-The Crown Prosecution Service
collated enough evidence

1250
00:57:06.975 --> 00:57:09.633
to charge Rose
with ten counts of murder.

1251
00:57:09.736 --> 00:57:10.944
[Static crackles]
-Frederick West,

1252
00:57:11.048 --> 00:57:12.532
the builder accused
of mass murder,

1253
00:57:12.636 --> 00:57:15.501
just minutes away from a reunion
with his wife, Rosemary,

1254
00:57:15.604 --> 00:57:18.055
is driven into Gloucester
Magistrates Court.

1255
00:57:18.158 --> 00:57:19.470
-We saw Fred and Rose
brought up,

1256
00:57:19.574 --> 00:57:20.885
one by one, into the dock

1257
00:57:20.989 --> 00:57:22.611
and we were quite surprised
to see

1258
00:57:22.715 --> 00:57:27.616
just a very ordinary-looking,
plumpish, middle-aged woman.

1259
00:57:27.720 --> 00:57:31.931
She didn't appear to be upset,
disturbed, angry, indignant.

1260
00:57:32.034 --> 00:57:35.348
There was no real emotion
that I can recall.

1261
00:57:35.452 --> 00:57:39.110
-The clear instructions were
that she said she was innocent.

1262
00:57:39.214 --> 00:57:41.043
If there was anything
had happened,

1263
00:57:41.147 --> 00:57:44.046
it was because of Fred.

1264
00:57:44.150 --> 00:57:46.048
-And the whole time
that they sat in that court,

1265
00:57:46.152 --> 00:57:48.257
they deliberately were not
looking at each other,

1266
00:57:48.361 --> 00:57:49.880
not talking to each other.

1267
00:57:49.983 --> 00:57:52.607
Had they fallen out?
Was this a ruse, on their part?

1268
00:57:52.710 --> 00:57:54.125
-They probably did
discuss the fact

1269
00:57:54.229 --> 00:57:55.644
about Fred taking the blame

1270
00:57:55.748 --> 00:57:57.543
and she would walk away from it.

1271
00:57:57.646 --> 00:58:00.442
She disowned him
in the witness box.

1272
00:58:00.546 --> 00:58:02.582
-She just dropped him, end of.

1273
00:58:02.686 --> 00:58:05.551
Freddie forever --
that was over forever.

1274
00:58:05.654 --> 00:58:08.312
She wanted no more
to do with him.

1275
00:58:08.415 --> 00:58:10.970
-There were clear signs
that she was saying,

1276
00:58:11.073 --> 00:58:14.042
"No, you've admitted it,
now go and rot."

1277
00:58:14.145 --> 00:58:16.285
[Static crackles]
-Frederick West was found dead

1278
00:58:16.389 --> 00:58:18.391
in his cell
in Winson Green Prison.

1279
00:58:18.495 --> 00:58:20.393
He was awaiting trial,
accused of murdering

1280
00:58:20.497 --> 00:58:21.670
12 women and girls.

1281
00:58:21.774 --> 00:58:27.020
♪♪

1282
00:58:27.124 --> 00:58:29.816
-Rosemary West in public
for the first time

1283
00:58:29.920 --> 00:58:32.129
since her husband was found
hanging in his cell

1284
00:58:32.232 --> 00:58:33.786
on New Year's Day.

1285
00:58:33.889 --> 00:58:36.996
-Rose West was charged
with ten counts of murder.

1286
00:58:37.099 --> 00:58:40.620
She was remanded in custody
whilst she awaited trial.

1287
00:58:40.724 --> 00:58:43.520
I looked over the top
of the railings

1288
00:58:43.623 --> 00:58:46.730
and it was Rose West [Laughs]
and I thought, "Ooh!"

1289
00:58:46.833 --> 00:58:49.629
-Sandra Gregory was jailed
for drug trafficking

1290
00:58:49.733 --> 00:58:53.219
and got to know Rose
in HMP Durham.

1291
00:58:53.322 --> 00:58:54.910
-She swears a bit.

1292
00:58:55.014 --> 00:58:56.463
And she can foam a little bit
at the mouth

1293
00:58:56.567 --> 00:58:58.707
when she gets a bit animated,
but she'd say,

1294
00:58:58.811 --> 00:59:02.021
"They said that he killed
himself to protect me.

1295
00:59:02.124 --> 00:59:03.609
They don't know nothing.

1296
00:59:03.712 --> 00:59:05.334
And you know what the
ultimate murder is, Sandra?"

1297
00:59:05.438 --> 00:59:07.474
And I was like,
"No, Rose, I don't."

1298
00:59:07.578 --> 00:59:10.201
"Their own! He did it because
that's the ultimate murder!

1299
00:59:10.305 --> 00:59:11.927
Why was it only fucking Rose
that's supposed to know

1300
00:59:12.031 --> 00:59:13.722
what he's doing
in that fucking cellar?

1301
00:59:13.826 --> 00:59:15.621
It had a locked door on it,
you know.

1302
00:59:15.724 --> 00:59:17.243
I never went
down in that fucking cellar!

1303
00:59:17.346 --> 00:59:18.693
I'm up there,
feeding all the kids!"

1304
00:59:18.796 --> 00:59:20.349
And I said, "Oh,
and how many children

1305
00:59:20.453 --> 00:59:22.628
have you got, then, Rose?"

1306
00:59:22.731 --> 00:59:24.388
And she looked at me and said,

1307
00:59:24.491 --> 00:59:25.803
"Well, I used to have eight."

1308
00:59:25.907 --> 00:59:29.013
♪♪

1309
00:59:29.117 --> 00:59:30.843
I was like, "Ooh!"

1310
00:59:30.946 --> 00:59:33.846
I didn't progress
that conversation.

1311
00:59:33.949 --> 00:59:35.917
-In October 1995,

1312
00:59:36.020 --> 00:59:40.784
Rose West was to stand trial
for the ten murders.

1313
00:59:40.887 --> 00:59:42.579
-Rose was denying involvement.

1314
00:59:42.682 --> 00:59:44.063
Those were my instructions,

1315
00:59:44.166 --> 00:59:47.825
so that was the story
that I would've accepted.

1316
00:59:47.929 --> 00:59:49.827
Therefore, professionally,
you have to deal

1317
00:59:49.931 --> 00:59:53.037
with the evidence
that seems to conflict

1318
00:59:53.141 --> 00:59:54.729
with what your client
is telling you.

1319
00:59:54.832 --> 00:59:57.179
-I was astonished to hear
that Rosemary West

1320
00:59:57.283 --> 00:59:58.871
was going to give evidence.

1321
00:59:58.974 --> 01:00:01.701
-Paul Cheston was the senior
court correspondent

1322
01:00:01.805 --> 01:00:03.220
for the Evening Standard

1323
01:00:03.323 --> 01:00:05.809
and attended every day
of the trial.

1324
01:00:05.912 --> 01:00:09.502
-She went into the witness box
and immediately,

1325
01:00:09.606 --> 01:00:10.814
"I'm not to blame.

1326
01:00:10.917 --> 01:00:12.022
Fred did everything.

1327
01:00:12.125 --> 01:00:13.506
I had no idea
what he was up to.

1328
01:00:13.610 --> 01:00:15.128
It was a complete mystery.

1329
01:00:15.232 --> 01:00:16.751
I was shocked and horrified to
find that

1330
01:00:16.854 --> 01:00:20.099
members of my family were being
killed by my husband."

1331
01:00:20.202 --> 01:00:22.584
As soon as you saw
25 Cromwell Street

1332
01:00:22.688 --> 01:00:24.517
and saw how small it was,

1333
01:00:24.621 --> 01:00:27.589
and as the number of bodies
being found mounted,

1334
01:00:27.693 --> 01:00:30.661
you realized Fred was
not operating on his own.

1335
01:00:30.765 --> 01:00:33.837
-Under cross-examination,
it soon became apparent

1336
01:00:33.940 --> 01:00:36.115
that Rose was not
telling the truth.

1337
01:00:36.218 --> 01:00:39.808
-She'd snookered herself
in relation to Heather.

1338
01:00:39.912 --> 01:00:42.086
He had to kick her out
because she was a lesbian.

1339
01:00:42.190 --> 01:00:45.089
And then it turns out Rose
enjoyed lesbian relationships,

1340
01:00:45.193 --> 01:00:46.366
as well,
and you think,

1341
01:00:46.470 --> 01:00:47.920
"Well, that's totally
inconsistent."

1342
01:00:48.023 --> 01:00:49.680
And then they'd seen her around,
they'd sent her money,

1343
01:00:49.784 --> 01:00:53.511
spoken to her on the phone.

1344
01:00:53.615 --> 01:00:54.927
Complete nonsense,

1345
01:00:55.030 --> 01:00:56.618
because Heather was buried
in the garden.

1346
01:00:56.722 --> 01:00:58.689
I could have sat there and said,
"Look, Rose,

1347
01:00:58.793 --> 01:01:00.622
you're lying through
your teeth to me.

1348
01:01:00.726 --> 01:01:02.348
You're totally false.

1349
01:01:02.451 --> 01:01:05.040
Why don't you get with it
and start admitting stuff?"

1350
01:01:05.144 --> 01:01:08.492
She said what was convenient
to say.

1351
01:01:08.595 --> 01:01:11.253
And that's how she dealt
with her evidence at court.

1352
01:01:13.324 --> 01:01:16.396
-She remained very impassive
throughout the entire hearing,

1353
01:01:16.500 --> 01:01:18.640
giving very little away.

1354
01:01:18.744 --> 01:01:21.712
-Survivor Caroline Owens
courageously spoke

1355
01:01:21.816 --> 01:01:26.061
about the horrific ordeal
she suffered before her escape.

1356
01:01:26.165 --> 01:01:28.477
-Miss Owens claims she was
subjected to

1357
01:01:28.581 --> 01:01:30.341
further serious sexual assaults,

1358
01:01:30.445 --> 01:01:32.965
including being beaten with
a leather belt.

1359
01:01:33.068 --> 01:01:36.865
She told the court,
"I was scared to death."

1360
01:01:36.969 --> 01:01:39.765
-She didn't appear to be
upset, disturbed.

1361
01:01:39.868 --> 01:01:43.320
I think it's possible that she
never really appreciated

1362
01:01:43.423 --> 01:01:45.391
the enormity
of what was going on.

1363
01:01:45.494 --> 01:01:48.049
-But Rose would soon show
her violent side,

1364
01:01:48.152 --> 01:01:52.536
when the prosecution presented
the next key witness.

1365
01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:54.780
-Rosemary West was in
the witness box for three days,

1366
01:01:54.883 --> 01:01:57.092
and was getting
progressively more tired.

1367
01:01:57.196 --> 01:01:59.267
And Brian Leveson,
as prosecutor,

1368
01:01:59.370 --> 01:02:02.097
cross-examined on
a whole range of subjects,

1369
01:02:02.201 --> 01:02:04.203
and to build up to a climax

1370
01:02:04.306 --> 01:02:06.964
about asking her
about Charmaine.

1371
01:02:07.068 --> 01:02:10.968
-She was very subdued
about Charmaine.

1372
01:02:11.072 --> 01:02:16.042
She found it very difficult
to revisit that.

1373
01:02:16.146 --> 01:02:19.908
-A neighbor from 25 Midland Road
had come forward.

1374
01:02:20.012 --> 01:02:21.841
She had witnessed
Rose's attitude

1375
01:02:21.945 --> 01:02:23.601
towards her first victim,

1376
01:02:23.705 --> 01:02:26.915
eight-year-old Charmaine,
25 years earlier.

1377
01:02:27.019 --> 01:02:29.504
-A neighbor had come
into the house

1378
01:02:29.607 --> 01:02:32.058
and she was startled
to see Charmaine

1379
01:02:32.162 --> 01:02:34.509
standing on a chair,
stark naked,

1380
01:02:34.612 --> 01:02:36.511
bound with her hands
behind her back,

1381
01:02:36.614 --> 01:02:39.031
and Rosemary West
with a rolling pin

1382
01:02:39.134 --> 01:02:41.447
in an aggressive fashion.

1383
01:02:41.550 --> 01:02:43.621
And Brian Leveson pressed
and pressed and pressed,

1384
01:02:43.725 --> 01:02:46.245
and eventually she snapped
and shouted at him.

1385
01:02:46.348 --> 01:02:49.835
And that was the moment when
the jury could see what she was,

1386
01:02:49.938 --> 01:02:52.665
not a cuddly housewife,
mother of six,

1387
01:02:52.769 --> 01:02:57.635
but a short-tempered woman
who would react

1388
01:02:57.739 --> 01:03:01.432
with a flash of temper
when things do not go her way.

1389
01:03:04.435 --> 01:03:06.299
-She came unstuck,
she didn't present as

1390
01:03:06.403 --> 01:03:08.785
a good witness in court.

1391
01:03:08.888 --> 01:03:11.891
-We perhaps had tended to want
to think

1392
01:03:11.995 --> 01:03:14.791
that Rose would be the passive
person who was just

1393
01:03:14.894 --> 01:03:16.482
putting up with it.

1394
01:03:16.585 --> 01:03:18.277
The more evidence we heard made
us realize

1395
01:03:18.380 --> 01:03:20.969
that Rose was very much
an active participant,

1396
01:03:21.073 --> 01:03:24.386
far more active than we ever
could have imagined.

1397
01:03:24.490 --> 01:03:26.630
-Rosemary West was driven
to court today

1398
01:03:26.733 --> 01:03:29.875
to hear the judge begin summing
up seven weeks of evidence,

1399
01:03:29.978 --> 01:03:33.568
the result of almost 100
statements from witnesses.

1400
01:03:33.671 --> 01:03:36.502
-When the jury foreman read
out the verdict of guilty,

1401
01:03:36.605 --> 01:03:38.538
you could see
Rose West sway.

1402
01:03:38.642 --> 01:03:40.506
She was not expecting this.

1403
01:03:40.609 --> 01:03:43.095
-When Rose was finally
taken down,

1404
01:03:43.198 --> 01:03:45.235
she was totally distraught.

1405
01:03:45.338 --> 01:03:49.239
The ground from under her feet
had disappeared

1406
01:03:49.342 --> 01:03:51.482
and she was
sobbing uncontrollably.

1407
01:03:51.586 --> 01:03:55.624
-She honestly thought that she
was going to get away with this.

1408
01:03:55.728 --> 01:03:57.523
-Rosemary Pauline West,

1409
01:03:57.626 --> 01:03:59.697
on each of the ten counts
of murder,

1410
01:03:59.801 --> 01:04:02.252
the sentence is one of
life imprisonment.

1411
01:04:02.355 --> 01:04:06.256
-Well, she's equivocal
on innocence.

1412
01:04:06.359 --> 01:04:09.121
The prospect of Rose...

1413
01:04:09.224 --> 01:04:11.882
suddenly deciding to kick
the wall down and say,

1414
01:04:11.986 --> 01:04:14.126
"This is what it's all about,
this is what I've done,

1415
01:04:14.229 --> 01:04:15.990
this is how I feel,"

1416
01:04:16.093 --> 01:04:18.613
um, I think the chances
of that are nil.

1417
01:04:18.716 --> 01:04:20.684
-And as she crossed
the courtyard,

1418
01:04:20.787 --> 01:04:22.997
our camera caught
the final moments as,

1419
01:04:23.100 --> 01:04:24.481
holding white carrier bag,

1420
01:04:24.584 --> 01:04:29.244
she was taken inside,
flanked by warders.

1421
01:04:29.348 --> 01:04:31.695
-Rose West will die in prison,

1422
01:04:31.798 --> 01:04:34.525
where she maintains
her innocence to this day.

1423
01:04:34.629 --> 01:04:37.666
♪♪

1424
01:04:37.770 --> 01:04:40.359
-I don't know how many mornings
Rose West counts,

1425
01:04:40.462 --> 01:04:44.397
saying that, "They're being
really mean to me!

1426
01:04:44.501 --> 01:04:47.573
And they're being really
unkind to me!"

1427
01:04:47.676 --> 01:04:49.575
And she didn't want to come out
of her cell,

1428
01:04:49.678 --> 01:04:51.888
and was considering giving up
her wing cleaning job.

1429
01:04:51.991 --> 01:04:53.717
And she was
really kind of upset,

1430
01:04:53.820 --> 01:04:55.546
as though she was
being bullied.

1431
01:04:55.650 --> 01:04:58.204
She just didn't have
the strength of character

1432
01:04:58.308 --> 01:05:01.345
that I would've expected
a serial killer to have had.

1433
01:05:01.449 --> 01:05:04.245
♪♪

1434
01:05:04.348 --> 01:05:07.420
-She had a reality that she
hadn't been able to confront

1435
01:05:07.524 --> 01:05:08.870
since her childhood.

1436
01:05:08.974 --> 01:05:11.493
When I asked her to describe
her childhood,

1437
01:05:11.597 --> 01:05:14.841
she describes a sugar-sweet,

1438
01:05:14.945 --> 01:05:19.260
candy-coated, flossy,
merry time.

1439
01:05:19.363 --> 01:05:23.195
She presents the home life
as these vigilant,

1440
01:05:23.298 --> 01:05:25.852
overprotective parents who would
do anything for their children

1441
01:05:25.956 --> 01:05:31.651
and were always there,
which was complete nonsense.

1442
01:05:31.755 --> 01:05:36.242
-Since childhood, Rose has
preferred fantasy over reality,

1443
01:05:36.346 --> 01:05:39.452
something that contributed
to her narcissism.

1444
01:05:39.556 --> 01:05:42.076
But Rose's path may have
been destined to end

1445
01:05:42.179 --> 01:05:46.666
in this disturbing way
before she was even born.

1446
01:05:46.770 --> 01:05:50.498
I think where the mother
is mentally ill,

1447
01:05:50.601 --> 01:05:54.847
not engaging, and stressed,
suffering from anxiety,

1448
01:05:54.951 --> 01:06:00.715
it's all that stuff that impacts
on the unborn child.

1449
01:06:00.818 --> 01:06:03.925
The psychology
starts in the womb.

1450
01:06:04.029 --> 01:06:06.514
-Daisy's deficiencies were
contributing factors

1451
01:06:06.617 --> 01:06:07.998
in Rose's development,

1452
01:06:08.102 --> 01:06:10.587
but her narcissism was
a result of the abuse

1453
01:06:10.690 --> 01:06:12.451
inflicted by her father.

1454
01:06:12.554 --> 01:06:14.729
-There's no doubt
that Bill Letts

1455
01:06:14.832 --> 01:06:17.111
altered his daughter
considerably.

1456
01:06:17.214 --> 01:06:20.769
-Rosemary West had no morals
at any time in her life.

1457
01:06:20.873 --> 01:06:23.082
She was brought up
in a house of depravity,

1458
01:06:23.186 --> 01:06:26.534
and where sexual practices
and customs

1459
01:06:26.637 --> 01:06:29.640
applied to other people,
they didn't apply to her.

1460
01:06:29.744 --> 01:06:33.230
-The abuse by Bill Letts
made her ripe

1461
01:06:33.334 --> 01:06:38.063
for her partnership
with Fred West.

1462
01:06:38.166 --> 01:06:43.585
-But there is a leap between
sexual depravity and murder.

1463
01:06:43.689 --> 01:06:48.211
And Fred provided that bridge
that she willingly crossed.

1464
01:06:48.314 --> 01:06:50.868
♪♪

1465
01:06:50.972 --> 01:06:52.836
-I think Rose
became a serial killer

1466
01:06:52.939 --> 01:06:54.527
because she married Fred.

1467
01:06:54.631 --> 01:06:57.703
I think, had she married
somebody else,

1468
01:06:57.806 --> 01:07:00.292
it might've been
very different.

1469
01:07:00.395 --> 01:07:04.503
But add the two together,
the so-called folie à deux,

1470
01:07:04.606 --> 01:07:09.611
then you have an absolutely
lethal combination.

1471
01:07:09.715 --> 01:07:13.615
She was encouraged, and then
once she got a taste for it,

1472
01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:16.653
she couldn't stop.

1473
01:07:16.756 --> 01:07:18.448
-People will hold their hands
up in horror at the way

1474
01:07:18.551 --> 01:07:20.070
that Rose was treated,

1475
01:07:20.174 --> 01:07:23.246
and what presumably led to her
becoming the way she was,

1476
01:07:23.349 --> 01:07:25.248
by the abuse she suffered.

1477
01:07:25.351 --> 01:07:27.319
We'd like to think that
in this day and age,

1478
01:07:27.422 --> 01:07:29.873
that situation couldn't arise,
but unfortunately,

1479
01:07:29.976 --> 01:07:31.909
from cases I've covered
even recently,

1480
01:07:32.013 --> 01:07:34.533
it does still happen.

1481
01:07:34.636 --> 01:07:36.811
It shows, really,
that social services

1482
01:07:36.914 --> 01:07:39.503
and all the things that maybe
have been learnt

1483
01:07:39.607 --> 01:07:41.643
over the last
30 years or whatever,

1484
01:07:41.747 --> 01:07:43.852
since the West case
and before then,

1485
01:07:43.956 --> 01:07:47.028
are simply not,
for whatever reason,

1486
01:07:47.132 --> 01:07:49.824
being -- being brought into
practice, you know?

1487
01:07:49.927 --> 01:07:52.827
Elements of checking
and finding out and preventing

1488
01:07:52.930 --> 01:07:54.208
just still do not happen.

1489
01:07:54.311 --> 01:07:56.658
And I think it's partly because,
very often,

1490
01:07:56.762 --> 01:07:59.661
the people who do this kind of
thing are extremely devious

1491
01:07:59.765 --> 01:08:02.733
and they find ways round it.

1492
01:08:02.837 --> 01:08:06.875
-Rose's contrariness continued.

1493
01:08:06.979 --> 01:08:08.394
I prepared an appeal,

1494
01:08:08.498 --> 01:08:10.396
and that application went in,

1495
01:08:10.500 --> 01:08:13.503
and then at a late stage with
that, in 2001,

1496
01:08:13.606 --> 01:08:14.883
she contacted me and said,

1497
01:08:14.987 --> 01:08:17.127
"I don't want you to proceed
with this,"

1498
01:08:17.231 --> 01:08:19.474
because, she said,
"Well, I've decided that

1499
01:08:19.578 --> 01:08:22.270
I might as well spend the rest
of my life in prison."

1500
01:08:22.374 --> 01:08:24.893
So I said, "Does this mean
you're admitting your guilt?"

1501
01:08:24.997 --> 01:08:26.999
And she said, "No, it doesn't."

1502
01:08:27.103 --> 01:08:30.727
So, again, there's that
duplicity and contradiction

1503
01:08:30.830 --> 01:08:32.901
that you just can't get round.

1504
01:08:33.005 --> 01:08:35.387
♪♪

1505
01:08:35.490 --> 01:08:38.114
Does she deserve to die
in prison?

1506
01:08:38.217 --> 01:08:40.012
If you accept she's guilty,
then, yeah,

1507
01:08:40.116 --> 01:08:42.566
there can be absolutely no doubt
she deserves to die in prison.

1508
01:08:42.670 --> 01:08:51.161
♪♪

1509
01:08:51.265 --> 01:09:01.137
♪♪

1510
01:09:01.240 --> 01:09:07.143
♪♪

1511
01:09:07.246 --> 01:09:11.940
♪♪