1 00:00:00,838 --> 00:00:02,738 [chirping] 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 3 00:00:02,838 --> 00:00:05,698 [dramatic music] 4 00:00:05,798 --> 00:00:08,378 - [Marlin] Wonderful, memorable moments, 5 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 6 00:00:08,478 --> 00:00:11,818 many of these I shared with Jim Fowler. 7 00:00:11,918 --> 00:00:13,818 - [Jim] We've helped capture hundreds of animals, 8 00:00:13,918 --> 00:00:16,619 but this one had to rank among the most memorable of all. 9 00:00:16,719 --> 00:00:18,179 - [Tim] I remember sitting in front of the TV 10 00:00:18,279 --> 00:00:21,539 we had in our house, just inches away. 11 00:00:21,639 --> 00:00:24,739 Just totally mesmerised watching Marlin Perkins 12 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:27,019 "Mutual Omaha's Wild Kingdom". 13 00:00:27,119 --> 00:00:29,859 [leopard roaring] 14 00:00:29,959 --> 00:00:31,580 We had Jacques Cousteau, 15 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,140 all these TV shows with all this adventure and animals. 16 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,740 - [TV Presenter] When Sam finally leaped out 17 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,620 after the fleeing buffalo, 18 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,980 it took only a moment for the situation... 19 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:42,580 - And I would say to myself, 20 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,060 "Man, I wanna go out, and I wanna catch these animals. 21 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,060 "I wanna be a person that can handle animals 22 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:48,161 "and get out there and do this kind of stuff." 23 00:00:50,441 --> 00:00:53,421 I was trying to take that adventure I saw on TV, 24 00:00:53,521 --> 00:00:55,621 and do it in real life. 25 00:00:55,721 --> 00:00:58,421 It was just-- it was very exciting. 26 00:00:58,521 --> 00:01:00,581 And from that point on, I just thought to myself, 27 00:01:00,681 --> 00:01:02,381 you know, "This is what I want to do." 28 00:01:02,481 --> 00:01:03,982 I loved it, absolutely loved it. 29 00:01:04,082 --> 00:01:07,222 [laughter on TV] 30 00:01:07,322 --> 00:01:09,342 As I grew a little older and got in my teenage years, 31 00:01:09,442 --> 00:01:11,262 they were actually bringing the animals on TV shows 32 00:01:11,362 --> 00:01:14,062 in front of TV audiences and everything else. 33 00:01:14,162 --> 00:01:15,822 I thought, "Man, this is cool." 34 00:01:15,922 --> 00:01:17,822 - [Johnny Carson] A very sensitive animal. 35 00:01:17,922 --> 00:01:21,343 [audience laughs] 36 00:01:21,443 --> 00:01:23,703 He punched me right in the mouth. 37 00:01:23,803 --> 00:01:25,743 - But then this other guy shows up on the scene, 38 00:01:25,843 --> 00:01:28,943 and all of a sudden, boom, Jim Fowler hand-off the baton, 39 00:01:29,043 --> 00:01:30,783 and this guy ran with it, his name was Jack Hanna. 40 00:01:30,883 --> 00:01:33,623 - [David Letterman] Jack! - He just exploded. 41 00:01:33,723 --> 00:01:35,424 - [Letterman] Now, wait a minute. 42 00:01:35,524 --> 00:01:38,144 Let's make sure one set of animals has cleared the area. 43 00:01:38,244 --> 00:01:39,904 - [Jack Hanna] Oh, shoot, no! 44 00:01:40,004 --> 00:01:42,624 - And became the number one animal celebrity in the world. 45 00:01:42,724 --> 00:01:44,464 - [Jack] They were born in Columbus Zoo. 46 00:01:44,564 --> 00:01:46,184 - Oh, they were born in the zoo? - Yeah, this one belongs to us. 47 00:01:46,284 --> 00:01:48,944 - And what was so cool about it was that he was from Ohio. 48 00:01:49,044 --> 00:01:50,304 He was from the Columbus Zoo, 49 00:01:50,404 --> 00:01:51,745 just down the road from where I lived. 50 00:01:51,845 --> 00:01:54,145 - The Director Emeritus of the Columbus Zoo... 51 00:01:54,245 --> 00:01:56,865 - It was attainable for me to follow in his footsteps, 52 00:01:56,965 --> 00:01:58,545 because he was one of us. 53 00:01:58,645 --> 00:02:00,545 - Put your hand like this. - No, I think we've seen enough. 54 00:02:00,645 --> 00:02:02,985 [audience laughs] 55 00:02:03,085 --> 00:02:05,385 - And I was just on the verge, I was still young 56 00:02:05,485 --> 00:02:07,746 and I was helping with other places, 57 00:02:07,846 --> 00:02:09,186 and other zoos and everything else, 58 00:02:09,286 --> 00:02:10,706 and I'm thinking, "Man, this is so cool. 59 00:02:10,806 --> 00:02:13,506 "Someday I wanna be like Jack Hanna." 60 00:02:13,606 --> 00:02:15,606 That was my dream. 61 00:02:17,166 --> 00:02:18,506 I remember working as a police officer, 62 00:02:18,606 --> 00:02:20,546 firefighter, paramedic for the city of Oakwood 63 00:02:20,646 --> 00:02:21,786 here in Dayton, Ohio. 64 00:02:21,886 --> 00:02:23,667 In between calls we'd watched TV. 65 00:02:23,767 --> 00:02:25,347 And I always wanted to watch the animal shows. 66 00:02:25,447 --> 00:02:26,987 - [Steve Irwin] Coming back real fast! 67 00:02:27,087 --> 00:02:29,147 - But the style was changing so quickly. 68 00:02:29,247 --> 00:02:30,787 - Neck starts to puff up, 69 00:02:30,887 --> 00:02:33,307 that rapid tongue flicking, it's getting upset. 70 00:02:33,407 --> 00:02:35,947 - They would tease these animals unmercifully 71 00:02:36,047 --> 00:02:37,827 till they attacked the TV cameras. 72 00:02:37,927 --> 00:02:39,348 And animals were running everywhere, 73 00:02:39,448 --> 00:02:41,028 and they were harassed and were being teased. 74 00:02:41,128 --> 00:02:42,868 - Look at the size of him, Jimmy! 75 00:02:42,968 --> 00:02:46,068 - Jeff, you're scaring me. 76 00:02:46,168 --> 00:02:48,668 - This form of television became so popular, 77 00:02:48,768 --> 00:02:52,188 every TV show, all of them had their own animal guy. 78 00:02:52,288 --> 00:02:54,148 - Please welcome Dave Salmoni. 79 00:02:54,248 --> 00:02:55,949 Dave! [audience cheers] 80 00:02:56,049 --> 00:02:57,189 - Please welcome Jarod Miller. 81 00:02:57,289 --> 00:02:59,429 [audience applause] 82 00:02:59,529 --> 00:03:02,749 - Nat Geo Wild big cat expert, Boone, nice to see you. 83 00:03:02,849 --> 00:03:04,109 - Thank you for having me here. 84 00:03:04,209 --> 00:03:05,589 - [Tamron Hall] What great work you do. 85 00:03:05,689 --> 00:03:08,669 - And things changed, something happened. 86 00:03:08,769 --> 00:03:11,550 All of a sudden I get a call from a local police department 87 00:03:11,650 --> 00:03:14,070 by somebody having a tiger in their basement, 88 00:03:14,170 --> 00:03:15,670 or somebody over here having 89 00:03:15,770 --> 00:03:17,470 one of the most dangerous creatures on the planet, 90 00:03:17,570 --> 00:03:19,390 a Gaboon viper. 91 00:03:19,490 --> 00:03:20,590 And that's when I started realizing 92 00:03:20,690 --> 00:03:23,070 this is not fun and games anymore. 93 00:03:23,170 --> 00:03:24,550 It was a big problem, 94 00:03:24,650 --> 00:03:26,591 and I was right in the middle of it. 95 00:03:26,691 --> 00:03:29,751 - There are more captive tigers in the US today 96 00:03:29,851 --> 00:03:32,791 than there are in the wild throughout the world. 97 00:03:32,891 --> 00:03:35,311 - It turns out some states make it easier 98 00:03:35,411 --> 00:03:37,231 to keep a tiger than a dog. 99 00:03:37,331 --> 00:03:38,631 We wondered how someone... 100 00:03:38,731 --> 00:03:40,951 - Nobody was ready for this huge influx 101 00:03:41,051 --> 00:03:44,592 of these animals being bred and sold out to the public. 102 00:03:44,692 --> 00:03:47,712 Well, with the reality TV mind-set, 103 00:03:47,812 --> 00:03:51,512 the "monkey see, monkey do" mind-set, it happened. 104 00:03:51,612 --> 00:03:54,752 I asked them, "Why did you bring this tiger in your home?" 105 00:03:54,852 --> 00:03:56,712 "I watched a show on Animal Planet." 106 00:03:56,812 --> 00:03:58,673 Bang, it's just that simple. 107 00:03:58,773 --> 00:04:00,393 - Well, and apparently some of those animals 108 00:04:00,493 --> 00:04:01,793 are still on the loose. 109 00:04:01,893 --> 00:04:03,233 I know you're involved in the search. 110 00:04:03,333 --> 00:04:04,353 We'll let you get back to it. 111 00:04:04,453 --> 00:04:06,393 Tim Harrison, thank you. 112 00:04:06,493 --> 00:04:10,433 - I was watching these two worlds growing at the same time. 113 00:04:10,533 --> 00:04:13,033 You had the celebrity conservationists, 114 00:04:13,133 --> 00:04:15,114 they come on TV, and they've got their 115 00:04:15,214 --> 00:04:17,394 endangered species, their ambassador animals. 116 00:04:17,494 --> 00:04:19,074 - [Jack] Rarest endangered cats in the world. 117 00:04:19,174 --> 00:04:21,634 - And on the other hand, you had the seedy underbelly. 118 00:04:21,734 --> 00:04:23,154 We had the backyard breeders. 119 00:04:23,254 --> 00:04:25,874 We had the roadside zoos. 120 00:04:25,974 --> 00:04:29,034 The absolute worst were these exotic animal auctions. 121 00:04:29,134 --> 00:04:32,955 It was at these auctions, I saw those two worlds collide, 122 00:04:33,055 --> 00:04:35,295 and it changed my life forever. 123 00:04:43,615 --> 00:04:46,556 [tense music] 124 00:04:46,656 --> 00:04:48,656 [gravel crunching] 125 00:04:50,616 --> 00:04:53,756 [engine humming] - We're trying to figure out 126 00:04:53,856 --> 00:04:55,756 where all the animals are coming from. 127 00:04:55,856 --> 00:04:57,956 So Tim says he's going up to see 128 00:04:58,056 --> 00:05:00,576 the exotic animal auction, and see what they're selling. 129 00:05:04,817 --> 00:05:06,717 I said, "Well, Tim, if you're going, 130 00:05:06,817 --> 00:05:09,277 I'm gonna come and be your backup." 131 00:05:09,377 --> 00:05:12,297 [auctioneer shouting] 132 00:05:16,177 --> 00:05:18,318 This is a very dangerous place, these auctions, 133 00:05:18,418 --> 00:05:19,718 because within the first 10 minutes 134 00:05:19,818 --> 00:05:21,598 we heard people talking about, 135 00:05:21,698 --> 00:05:23,678 "If anybody comes in here with cameras, 136 00:05:23,778 --> 00:05:25,598 "they'll be on their way out with a ball bat, 137 00:05:25,698 --> 00:05:31,118 or a 2x4, or not such good shape as they came in." 138 00:05:31,218 --> 00:05:34,439 [people chattering] 139 00:05:34,539 --> 00:05:36,319 - You walk through this big mass crowd of people 140 00:05:36,419 --> 00:05:39,159 and all of a sudden you see carts filled 141 00:05:39,259 --> 00:05:44,559 with these cages, big cats, bear cubs, primates. 142 00:05:44,659 --> 00:05:46,599 They all have numbers on them. 143 00:05:46,699 --> 00:05:50,120 [monkey screaming] 144 00:05:50,220 --> 00:05:53,920 [sniffing, whimpering] 145 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:56,080 A regular person can just buy themselves 146 00:05:56,180 --> 00:05:59,080 an endangered species, 147 00:05:59,180 --> 00:06:02,760 walk out of there without any paperwork whatsoever. 148 00:06:02,860 --> 00:06:05,881 Just, here's my tiger cub, and off I go. 149 00:06:05,981 --> 00:06:08,901 [auctioneer calling] 150 00:06:11,301 --> 00:06:14,121 - As a police officer, firefighter, paramedic, 151 00:06:14,221 --> 00:06:16,961 I've seen a lot, 152 00:06:17,061 --> 00:06:20,241 and I've never seen anything like this in my entire life. 153 00:06:20,341 --> 00:06:22,362 [monkey chattering] 154 00:06:22,462 --> 00:06:26,942 If there was a hell for animals, this would be it. 155 00:06:28,862 --> 00:06:30,862 [animals squealing] 156 00:06:33,502 --> 00:06:36,403 [tense music] 157 00:06:36,503 --> 00:06:42,383 ♪♪ 158 00:06:44,583 --> 00:06:46,323 - When you look around, it's a who's who 159 00:06:46,423 --> 00:06:48,403 of the most notorious, 160 00:06:48,503 --> 00:06:51,483 exotic animal exploiters in the country. 161 00:06:51,583 --> 00:06:55,844 And all of a sudden you see Sam Mazzola, 162 00:06:55,944 --> 00:07:00,324 or you see over here a Terry Thompson. 163 00:07:00,424 --> 00:07:01,924 He was the one who turned his animals loose 164 00:07:02,024 --> 00:07:05,484 on the city of Zanesville. 165 00:07:05,584 --> 00:07:07,804 And you look over here and all of a sudden I see 166 00:07:07,904 --> 00:07:10,365 Cyndi Huntsman. 167 00:07:10,465 --> 00:07:12,845 - This gal races up to Tim, 168 00:07:12,945 --> 00:07:14,605 and it's Cyndi Huntsman 169 00:07:14,705 --> 00:07:17,405 who has a roadside zoo outside of Columbus. 170 00:07:17,505 --> 00:07:18,805 - And she approaches me and she goes, 171 00:07:18,905 --> 00:07:20,325 "What are you doing here?" 172 00:07:20,425 --> 00:07:22,325 And I looked and kinda was shocked, I go, 173 00:07:22,425 --> 00:07:24,166 "What are you doing here?" 174 00:07:24,266 --> 00:07:25,926 - [Rus] She says, "Well, I'm selling the animals 175 00:07:26,026 --> 00:07:29,486 that Jack Hanna had on TV last month." 176 00:07:29,586 --> 00:07:31,286 - "And I'm gonna pick up some other animals, 177 00:07:31,386 --> 00:07:32,566 "because he has another late night show 178 00:07:32,666 --> 00:07:34,126 he's gonna be doing." 179 00:07:34,226 --> 00:07:36,166 - And I just about fell over. 180 00:07:36,266 --> 00:07:39,126 [auctioneer calling] 181 00:07:39,226 --> 00:07:42,087 - [Auctioneer] One female cougar, two weeks old. 182 00:07:42,187 --> 00:07:44,247 - Could this be the same animals 183 00:07:44,347 --> 00:07:46,367 that I'm pulling out of people's basements? 184 00:07:46,467 --> 00:07:49,847 [auctioneer shouting] 185 00:07:49,947 --> 00:07:52,767 [cubs squealing] 186 00:07:52,867 --> 00:07:58,488 - It can't get any more weird than what I've just seen. 187 00:07:58,588 --> 00:08:03,288 So I walk outside, and I look across the way 188 00:08:03,388 --> 00:08:07,368 and... it's Jarod Miller. 189 00:08:07,468 --> 00:08:09,008 - He's on Animal Planet, 190 00:08:09,108 --> 00:08:11,729 he's on all the late night shows, morning shows. 191 00:08:11,829 --> 00:08:13,409 - Look at this guy, now... 192 00:08:13,509 --> 00:08:15,369 - [Tim] Here he is in person. 193 00:08:15,469 --> 00:08:19,249 And he knows no cameras are allowed in there. 194 00:08:19,349 --> 00:08:22,509 - I decide I'm gonna follow him, I'm gonna see what he's up to. 195 00:08:28,510 --> 00:08:30,730 - You know, he wasn't there to shut down this auction, 196 00:08:30,830 --> 00:08:32,490 he wasn't there to expose anything. 197 00:08:32,590 --> 00:08:37,490 He was there to handpick animals that he wants to use. 198 00:08:37,590 --> 00:08:40,730 Here he is feeding into the exotic pet trade. 199 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:42,830 And that's when I woke up. 200 00:08:46,511 --> 00:08:48,511 My gears started working, I started connecting the dots. 201 00:08:50,831 --> 00:08:54,331 And I realised, this is not an anomaly. 202 00:08:54,431 --> 00:08:57,171 This is systemic, they're all combined. 203 00:08:57,271 --> 00:08:59,612 - [Letterman] Imagine seeing that crawling out from under... 204 00:08:59,712 --> 00:09:01,332 - Then I started paying attention 205 00:09:01,432 --> 00:09:03,012 to the individuals in the background. 206 00:09:03,112 --> 00:09:04,692 I started paying attention to the person that came off 207 00:09:04,792 --> 00:09:08,412 and got the animal and walked off the stage with it. 208 00:09:08,512 --> 00:09:10,292 I realised, I know that guy. 209 00:09:10,392 --> 00:09:12,212 He's a guy that has all of his animals 210 00:09:12,312 --> 00:09:15,213 in an industrial park warehouse. 211 00:09:15,313 --> 00:09:17,213 And then I watch another show, 212 00:09:17,313 --> 00:09:19,453 and somebody come out, I recognise that guy. 213 00:09:19,553 --> 00:09:21,933 He has a backyard menagerie. 214 00:09:22,033 --> 00:09:25,013 He is also a private breeder. 215 00:09:25,113 --> 00:09:27,653 What are they doing with their ambassador animals? 216 00:09:27,753 --> 00:09:30,093 Where do they go? What happens to them? 217 00:09:30,193 --> 00:09:31,614 - [Boone] We've got Mr. Jake here. 218 00:09:31,714 --> 00:09:33,574 He's what we call an ambassador animal. 219 00:09:33,674 --> 00:09:35,334 So we use him as an ambassador 220 00:09:35,434 --> 00:09:37,494 to showcase what a great animal he is, 221 00:09:37,594 --> 00:09:39,094 how incredible these animals are, 222 00:09:39,194 --> 00:09:41,194 and let people learn about them a little more... 223 00:09:44,754 --> 00:09:46,935 - And as Jake grows up, what's gonna be in store for him? 224 00:09:47,035 --> 00:09:50,815 - Um, Jake is at a zoo, and he's obviously... 225 00:09:50,915 --> 00:09:53,415 - I have connections to almost all the AZA zoos 226 00:09:53,515 --> 00:09:55,095 in the United States of America, 227 00:09:55,195 --> 00:09:57,735 and these ambassador cats are not showing up there. 228 00:09:57,835 --> 00:09:59,295 - [Dave Salmoni] You wanna grab him? 229 00:09:59,395 --> 00:10:00,775 Watch your clothes. - [Fran] Where's his mama? 230 00:10:00,875 --> 00:10:02,736 - His mum's at a nice little zoo somewhere. 231 00:10:02,836 --> 00:10:04,256 - Aww... 232 00:10:04,356 --> 00:10:06,576 - [Tim] As we look at all these we have out here, 233 00:10:06,676 --> 00:10:08,136 we try to get a handful of them 234 00:10:08,236 --> 00:10:10,696 that we can actually get some clean data on. 235 00:10:10,796 --> 00:10:12,096 - One of our things we're working on here. 236 00:10:12,196 --> 00:10:14,536 This is Millie, she's a Bengal tiger. 237 00:10:14,636 --> 00:10:16,376 - [Tim] And we think we can potentially find out 238 00:10:16,476 --> 00:10:19,497 what's happened to them and where they ended up. 239 00:10:19,597 --> 00:10:21,137 - [Jack] Species Survival Plan, 240 00:10:21,237 --> 00:10:23,177 we know exactly where these things are at all times. 241 00:10:23,277 --> 00:10:25,217 - [Letterman] All right, okay. Wow, this is remarkable... 242 00:10:25,317 --> 00:10:27,777 - [Carney Anne] We have this connected network 243 00:10:27,877 --> 00:10:31,657 of individuals who are using big cats for public contact, 244 00:10:31,757 --> 00:10:34,177 and then when they become too big, 245 00:10:34,277 --> 00:10:35,898 too expensive to maintain, 246 00:10:35,998 --> 00:10:38,338 we see them end up in the exotics market, 247 00:10:38,438 --> 00:10:40,418 or because of defects in the laws, 248 00:10:40,518 --> 00:10:42,258 we lose track of them, 249 00:10:42,358 --> 00:10:44,818 because there's no meaningful mechanism 250 00:10:44,918 --> 00:10:46,658 by which we can figure out 251 00:10:46,758 --> 00:10:49,158 where these cats are coming from and where they're going. 252 00:10:54,919 --> 00:10:59,179 Think strategically, and then err on the side 253 00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:01,659 of being over-inclusive. 254 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:03,299 I'm Carney Anne Nasser, 255 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:05,419 and I am the director of the Animal Welfare Clinic 256 00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:07,220 at Michigan State University College of Law. 257 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,540 The agency will get back to us and say... 258 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,700 I supervise law students in the practice of animal law. 259 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,700 Under my supervision, they tackle cases 260 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,100 under regulatory law, 261 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,020 litigation, policy, you name it. 262 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,581 Anything impacting animal welfare 263 00:11:23,681 --> 00:11:25,861 where we can play a role in advancing the interests 264 00:11:25,961 --> 00:11:28,581 of animals, that's what we're here for. 265 00:11:28,681 --> 00:11:30,181 - You're gonna be our ambassadors 266 00:11:30,281 --> 00:11:32,421 to try to find out what happened. 267 00:11:32,521 --> 00:11:35,021 Working with Michigan State University's law school, 268 00:11:35,121 --> 00:11:36,541 we're able to put it together now, 269 00:11:36,641 --> 00:11:38,622 and give us some basis of where to go. 270 00:11:38,722 --> 00:11:40,422 And I really do think we're gonna to find out 271 00:11:40,522 --> 00:11:41,862 where some of these cats are. 272 00:11:41,962 --> 00:11:45,622 Tiger Wyatt, Tiger Jake. Orange Tiger Jake. 273 00:11:45,722 --> 00:11:49,182 - And what I'd like to start out with is have my law students, 274 00:11:49,282 --> 00:11:52,222 through a series of Freedom of Information Act requests, 275 00:11:52,322 --> 00:11:54,143 see what we can dig up. 276 00:11:54,243 --> 00:11:55,783 And there would be records kept. 277 00:11:55,883 --> 00:11:57,383 We're gonna do a broad request to find out 278 00:11:57,483 --> 00:11:59,303 everything that's out there 279 00:11:59,403 --> 00:12:01,543 to the US Department of Agriculture, 280 00:12:01,643 --> 00:12:03,743 to US Fish and Wildlife Service, 281 00:12:03,843 --> 00:12:05,783 and then to the relevant state agencies 282 00:12:05,883 --> 00:12:08,143 to see what they've got. - And challenging cases. 283 00:12:08,243 --> 00:12:10,544 - To the extent we don't find information, 284 00:12:10,644 --> 00:12:14,024 I think that's very compelling to say 285 00:12:14,124 --> 00:12:17,944 we don't even have a way to find this information out. 286 00:12:18,044 --> 00:12:20,664 It just doesn't exist. 287 00:12:20,764 --> 00:12:22,544 But I'll get my law students on it, 288 00:12:22,644 --> 00:12:25,425 and we'll see what we can do. 289 00:12:25,525 --> 00:12:27,345 - What I think anybody would expect 290 00:12:27,445 --> 00:12:31,345 with any kind of a tiger or big cat, 291 00:12:31,445 --> 00:12:33,905 I would think that that would be tracked 292 00:12:34,005 --> 00:12:37,345 to a degree beyond anything else, right? 293 00:12:37,445 --> 00:12:39,625 But there's probably better tracking 294 00:12:39,725 --> 00:12:43,286 of a lot of domestic cats than there are tigers. 295 00:12:45,486 --> 00:12:48,406 [tigers growling] 296 00:12:52,806 --> 00:12:55,026 What else has gone on like in the last couple of years, 297 00:12:55,126 --> 00:12:56,626 since I was here? 298 00:12:56,726 --> 00:12:58,747 - We're gonna prepare this ground here... 299 00:12:58,847 --> 00:13:00,307 - My name is Keith Gad, 300 00:13:00,407 --> 00:13:02,627 and my background and training includes 301 00:13:02,727 --> 00:13:06,347 conducting investigations, wildlife management, 302 00:13:06,447 --> 00:13:10,007 conservation studies, and federal law enforcement. 303 00:13:15,448 --> 00:13:18,988 What's gonna make this investigation so difficult 304 00:13:19,088 --> 00:13:21,668 is the sheer number of big cats 305 00:13:21,768 --> 00:13:23,708 that are out in America. 306 00:13:23,808 --> 00:13:26,268 But you have to start somewhere. 307 00:13:26,368 --> 00:13:28,468 Cy has a couple of tigers, 308 00:13:28,568 --> 00:13:32,149 and so maybe he has an animal that we're looking for. 309 00:13:32,249 --> 00:13:34,229 You know, where are these animals now? 310 00:13:34,329 --> 00:13:36,629 And that's what we were hoping, you may or may not recognise 311 00:13:36,729 --> 00:13:39,349 the names of a couple of these animals. 312 00:13:39,449 --> 00:13:43,829 There was this three-month-old female tiger named Millie 313 00:13:43,929 --> 00:13:46,910 that appeared on "The Today Show" 314 00:13:47,010 --> 00:13:50,350 with Jarod Miller and Boone Smith. 315 00:13:50,450 --> 00:13:54,550 - The folk that are using the animals on television, 316 00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:58,990 I've called friends since I first got started. 317 00:13:59,090 --> 00:14:02,511 - This guy looks familiar with Jimmy Kimmel. 318 00:14:02,611 --> 00:14:04,991 - Do you not know who that is? 319 00:14:05,091 --> 00:14:07,351 - I don't for sure. - I do. 320 00:14:07,451 --> 00:14:09,471 - We have an idea. 321 00:14:09,571 --> 00:14:12,511 Who is it? - Um... 322 00:14:12,611 --> 00:14:15,871 The folk that are breeding and providing the animals, 323 00:14:15,971 --> 00:14:17,752 these are all people that I know, 324 00:14:17,852 --> 00:14:20,712 and that I've done business with. 325 00:14:20,812 --> 00:14:23,232 We all work together. 326 00:14:23,332 --> 00:14:27,592 - Then Millie, three months old in 2015. 327 00:14:27,692 --> 00:14:29,072 - Right off the top of my head, 328 00:14:29,172 --> 00:14:32,032 but, um, who's that in the background? 329 00:14:32,132 --> 00:14:33,633 If somebody were to take interest 330 00:14:33,733 --> 00:14:36,633 in trying to track down an animal 331 00:14:36,733 --> 00:14:40,433 that they saw as a baby on a late night show... 332 00:14:40,533 --> 00:14:44,153 I mean, God only knows where that cat originated from. 333 00:14:44,253 --> 00:14:47,233 ...I wouldn't bet more than a nickel 334 00:14:47,333 --> 00:14:51,074 that if they had 100, that they'd be able to find 335 00:14:51,174 --> 00:14:53,034 one of them. 336 00:14:53,134 --> 00:14:55,954 I wouldn't even be interested in really engaging 337 00:14:56,054 --> 00:15:00,194 in a genuine conversation about the possibility 338 00:15:00,294 --> 00:15:02,994 of actually being successful in tracking down 339 00:15:03,094 --> 00:15:06,795 any of them, let alone one. 340 00:15:06,895 --> 00:15:08,675 - Just one of them that we're interested in seeing. 341 00:15:08,775 --> 00:15:10,595 - Yeah. - Nothing? 342 00:15:10,695 --> 00:15:14,015 - No. - Okay, all right. 343 00:15:15,615 --> 00:15:17,615 [TV voices in background] 344 00:15:23,856 --> 00:15:26,396 - We can try to call Jarod right now, 345 00:15:26,496 --> 00:15:29,036 and just kinda... informally ask him 346 00:15:29,136 --> 00:15:33,356 if he remembers Emma, and where she might've went to. 347 00:15:33,456 --> 00:15:37,237 I can't say whether he'll answer the phone. 348 00:15:37,337 --> 00:15:38,837 [keypad clicking] 349 00:15:38,937 --> 00:15:41,037 [phone line trilling] 350 00:15:41,137 --> 00:15:43,037 [dog barks in background] 351 00:15:43,137 --> 00:15:47,437 [phone line continues trilling] 352 00:15:47,537 --> 00:15:48,957 - [Jarod, on recording] Hi, you've reached Jarod. 353 00:15:49,057 --> 00:15:50,317 Leave a message and I'll get back to you 354 00:15:50,417 --> 00:15:51,958 as soon as I can, thanks. 355 00:15:52,058 --> 00:15:53,398 [voicemail beeps] 356 00:15:53,498 --> 00:15:55,798 - Hi, Jarod. It's Cy here in Ohio. 357 00:15:55,898 --> 00:16:00,478 I was, um, calling with kind of a random question. 358 00:16:00,578 --> 00:16:05,558 I was curious if you might remember 359 00:16:05,658 --> 00:16:09,679 a cub that you had on "The Today Show." 360 00:16:09,779 --> 00:16:12,759 Her name was Emma, a tiger cub. 361 00:16:12,859 --> 00:16:14,679 - [Jarod] When Emma here is full grown, she'll be almost... 362 00:16:14,779 --> 00:16:18,399 - [Cy] We're just kinda trying to track to see where 363 00:16:18,499 --> 00:16:20,159 she might have went. 364 00:16:20,259 --> 00:16:21,879 If you have any answer to that, 365 00:16:21,979 --> 00:16:24,800 or you know by any chance, just give me a call back. 366 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:27,520 All right, hope you're doing well, bye. 367 00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:29,620 [phone beeps] 368 00:16:33,220 --> 00:16:35,720 - He's not gonna know where the animal's at, 369 00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:37,480 or where it went. 370 00:16:37,580 --> 00:16:41,561 I'd be surprised if he even remembered the animal, period. 371 00:16:41,661 --> 00:16:45,401 He's not a bad person for not having those answers. 372 00:16:45,501 --> 00:16:48,641 That's the nature of his business. 373 00:16:48,741 --> 00:16:51,921 You just want to know what the cute tiger cub's name is. 374 00:16:52,021 --> 00:16:53,721 - This is Millie, she's a Bengal tiger. 375 00:16:53,821 --> 00:16:55,722 - [Tamron] Hi, Millie. 376 00:16:55,822 --> 00:16:58,442 - [Cy] And what kind of natural behaviors it might have 377 00:16:58,542 --> 00:17:00,482 when it's 400 pounds. 378 00:17:00,582 --> 00:17:02,282 - They're very social, live in big prides, 379 00:17:02,382 --> 00:17:03,442 let the females bring the food to them. 380 00:17:03,542 --> 00:17:04,442 - [Woman] What a life. 381 00:17:04,542 --> 00:17:06,002 - You don't want to hear 382 00:17:06,102 --> 00:17:09,362 about any potential sad situation 383 00:17:09,462 --> 00:17:12,143 that it's to succumb down the road. 384 00:17:15,063 --> 00:17:17,723 Nobody wants to hear that. 385 00:17:17,823 --> 00:17:19,443 - [Radio Presenter] Music and news 386 00:17:19,543 --> 00:17:22,883 for the City of Good Neighbors, Buffalo, New York. 387 00:17:22,983 --> 00:17:24,923 Music and news around the clock. 388 00:17:25,023 --> 00:17:27,724 You're listening to WDAN. 389 00:17:27,824 --> 00:17:29,924 - Once we got there, I'm gonna have you stay in the car, 390 00:17:30,024 --> 00:17:32,284 and just keep an eye. I don't want to bum-rush him, 391 00:17:32,384 --> 00:17:34,764 and make him feel like, whoa, jump back, "What's going on?" 392 00:17:34,864 --> 00:17:37,164 - Right. - And I'm just gonna approach 393 00:17:37,264 --> 00:17:38,844 and hand this to him, 394 00:17:38,944 --> 00:17:41,084 and then start asking him about these cats, 395 00:17:41,184 --> 00:17:42,925 you know, where these animals end up. 396 00:17:43,025 --> 00:17:44,805 And then if he continuously talks, 397 00:17:44,905 --> 00:17:47,185 I'm just gonna keep-- keep letting him talk. 398 00:17:53,465 --> 00:17:56,365 We wanna get something stirred up here in Buffalo. 399 00:17:56,465 --> 00:17:57,725 We wanna get it going that we're here 400 00:17:57,825 --> 00:17:59,766 to find out about these animals. 401 00:17:59,866 --> 00:18:01,246 So we're on, we're looking. 402 00:18:01,346 --> 00:18:03,246 [car door closes] Is he here already or...? 403 00:18:03,346 --> 00:18:04,966 - No, he's not. Loretta is though. 404 00:18:05,066 --> 00:18:07,366 - [Tim] Okay, you got it. I'll just wait for him then. 405 00:18:07,466 --> 00:18:09,366 That's no problem. You don't have to bother her. 406 00:18:09,466 --> 00:18:11,966 The only person that's gonna answer this question 407 00:18:12,066 --> 00:18:14,086 is gonna be the last person seen with her, 408 00:18:14,186 --> 00:18:16,187 and that's Jarod Miller. 409 00:18:17,827 --> 00:18:20,707 [inaudible conversation] 410 00:18:26,147 --> 00:18:28,687 [indistinct chatter] 411 00:18:28,787 --> 00:18:31,648 - [Woman] Or the people who are-- you know what I mean? 412 00:18:31,748 --> 00:18:33,248 - [Tim] Yes. Let me grab... 413 00:18:33,348 --> 00:18:34,768 - Do you just have a couple questions for him? 414 00:18:34,868 --> 00:18:36,208 - [Tim] Yeah, I just need to talk to you about 415 00:18:36,308 --> 00:18:37,728 5 or 10 minutes, that's it. - Yes, sure. 416 00:18:37,828 --> 00:18:39,528 - Then we'll let you guys do what you need to do. 417 00:18:39,628 --> 00:18:41,168 I'll bring you over here and talk over here a little bit. 418 00:18:41,268 --> 00:18:43,888 Just between you and I. - All right. 419 00:18:43,988 --> 00:18:46,969 - [Tim] I appreciate it. 420 00:18:47,069 --> 00:18:48,929 Now, Jarod, you probably don't remember me too much, do ya? 421 00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:50,489 - [Jarod] I don't, I don't know if we've ever met before. 422 00:18:50,589 --> 00:18:51,889 - [Tim] We probably met a couple of times 423 00:18:51,989 --> 00:18:53,449 at some of the auctions, some of the situations. 424 00:18:53,549 --> 00:18:55,449 - [Jarod] Okay. - But what I have is, 425 00:18:55,549 --> 00:18:57,449 I'm on a kind of a mission right now. 426 00:18:57,549 --> 00:18:59,089 We're trying to find out what happened to some 427 00:18:59,189 --> 00:19:00,369 of these cats. - Okay. 428 00:19:00,469 --> 00:19:01,689 - They're your ambassador animals. 429 00:19:01,789 --> 00:19:03,330 That's just a partial list. - Right. 430 00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:04,890 - Those are the ones we're having a real hard time 431 00:19:04,990 --> 00:19:06,610 trying to even find out what happened to them. 432 00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:08,410 - Right. - Do you have any idea 433 00:19:08,510 --> 00:19:10,370 where the snow leopard went by any chance? 434 00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:13,010 - Well, this is a buddy of mine. I'm trying to remember. 435 00:19:13,110 --> 00:19:15,810 I think that was one from, uh, I'm not exactly sure. 436 00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:17,290 - 'Cause that was just last year. 437 00:19:17,390 --> 00:19:18,691 - Well, I used to work at the Columbus Zoo, 438 00:19:18,791 --> 00:19:19,751 and he raised a lot of snow leopards there. 439 00:19:19,831 --> 00:19:21,011 - Okay. 440 00:19:21,111 --> 00:19:22,491 - Then I don't really know exactly. 441 00:19:22,591 --> 00:19:24,891 I don't know which ones were born at the zoo, 442 00:19:24,991 --> 00:19:28,091 but I remember they would raise them for different... 443 00:19:28,191 --> 00:19:30,211 - So the Columbus Zoo, this came from the Columbus Zoo? 444 00:19:30,311 --> 00:19:32,411 - I believe so, yeah. - And it went back? 445 00:19:32,511 --> 00:19:34,332 - I mean, like I said, I don't know. 446 00:19:34,432 --> 00:19:36,012 Like I don't-- yeah, I don't keep the cat, so... 447 00:19:36,112 --> 00:19:37,572 - Okay. These two especially 448 00:19:37,672 --> 00:19:40,732 right here, Emma, and this lion here. 449 00:19:40,832 --> 00:19:42,412 If you can tell me, if you can find out, 450 00:19:42,512 --> 00:19:45,012 I'd really appreciate it, because we're in a process 451 00:19:45,112 --> 00:19:47,252 of trying to find out where these cats are. 452 00:19:47,352 --> 00:19:49,372 And it makes me a little bit mad a little bit that you guys 453 00:19:49,472 --> 00:19:51,213 use them and you don't know where they go, you know? 454 00:19:51,313 --> 00:19:53,413 - Yeah, like when it comes to like that kind of stuff, 455 00:19:53,513 --> 00:19:55,213 Lee Huntsman that was in Ohio. 456 00:19:55,313 --> 00:19:57,453 And Lee Huntsman was the one that, 457 00:19:57,553 --> 00:19:59,373 they always had like cats. 458 00:19:59,473 --> 00:20:02,013 But between like Lee Huntsman and Grant Kemmerer, 459 00:20:02,113 --> 00:20:03,813 do you know him? - Not yet. 460 00:20:03,913 --> 00:20:05,894 - He's more in Western PA, so he's about 3 hours from us. 461 00:20:05,994 --> 00:20:07,974 - From here, okay. - But, yeah, anytime we need, 462 00:20:08,074 --> 00:20:09,534 anytime we ever had something for a cat, 463 00:20:09,634 --> 00:20:11,054 it was usually Grant, so... 464 00:20:11,154 --> 00:20:12,414 - So really you don't know what happens? 465 00:20:12,514 --> 00:20:13,574 You use them and then they go away? 466 00:20:13,674 --> 00:20:15,534 - Yup. - And then that's-- 467 00:20:15,634 --> 00:20:18,174 you never see it again, right? - Yeah, no, I don't. 468 00:20:18,274 --> 00:20:21,094 - You never see the cat again. All right, well... 469 00:20:21,194 --> 00:20:23,835 - Nice meeting you, Tim. - Take care. 470 00:20:36,995 --> 00:20:38,576 I'm disgusted. 471 00:20:38,676 --> 00:20:40,576 You know how hard it was for me not to grab him, 472 00:20:40,676 --> 00:20:42,776 and shake him? 473 00:20:42,876 --> 00:20:46,296 Yeah, I'm done with him. I'm so pissed off right now, 474 00:20:46,396 --> 00:20:47,656 I don't even want to talk to him anymore. 475 00:20:47,756 --> 00:20:49,056 I just wanted to tell him, say, 476 00:20:49,156 --> 00:20:51,536 "Listen, you're exploiting these animals, 477 00:20:51,636 --> 00:20:54,617 and it's just not right." 478 00:20:54,717 --> 00:20:56,057 - [Jarod] So I used to work at the Columbus Zoo, 479 00:20:56,157 --> 00:20:57,537 and he raised a lot of snow leopards there. 480 00:20:57,637 --> 00:20:59,637 - [Tim] Okay. 481 00:21:00,517 --> 00:21:02,497 So the Columbus Zoo, this came from the Columbus Zoo? 482 00:21:02,597 --> 00:21:04,797 - [Jarod] I believe so, yeah. - [Tim] And it went back? 483 00:21:10,998 --> 00:21:13,058 - [Jarod] I know a guy named Lee Huntsman that was in Ohio. 484 00:21:13,158 --> 00:21:15,298 And Lee Huntsman was the one that, 485 00:21:15,398 --> 00:21:17,398 they always have cat... 486 00:21:24,518 --> 00:21:29,259 [helicopter blades whirring] 487 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,279 [indistinct radio chatter] 488 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:40,700 [tense music] 489 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,680 ♪♪ 490 00:22:02,121 --> 00:22:04,221 - We're on route to a location 491 00:22:04,321 --> 00:22:07,261 that we think some of the ambassadors cats 492 00:22:07,361 --> 00:22:08,821 have ended up. 493 00:22:08,921 --> 00:22:13,942 It's deep, deep in a rural part of Pennsylvania. 494 00:22:14,042 --> 00:22:16,162 Kinda-- it's dairy country is what it is. 495 00:22:18,722 --> 00:22:21,502 Now, if you watch the shows and listen closely, 496 00:22:21,602 --> 00:22:25,062 you'll hear Jack Hanna refer to this alleged zoological park 497 00:22:25,162 --> 00:22:27,582 in Pennsylvania. - [Letterman] Where was it born? 498 00:22:27,682 --> 00:22:29,703 - This was born at the zoological park in Pennsylvania. 499 00:22:29,803 --> 00:22:31,263 - Oh, for heaven's sake. 500 00:22:31,363 --> 00:22:33,503 - [Tim] And you'll hear Boone Smith refer to 501 00:22:33,603 --> 00:22:36,223 a supposed sanctuary in Pennsylvania. 502 00:22:36,323 --> 00:22:40,023 - So he's out of a sanctuary there in Pennsylvania. 503 00:22:40,123 --> 00:22:42,703 And so these guys have a great facility where... 504 00:22:42,803 --> 00:22:44,584 - [Tim] If you do just a little bit of research, 505 00:22:44,684 --> 00:22:46,624 you'll see that there is no such zoo 506 00:22:46,724 --> 00:22:48,424 or sanctuary that we can find. 507 00:22:48,524 --> 00:22:51,864 It looks like it's got farm animals onto it. 508 00:22:51,964 --> 00:22:55,284 This is definitely not a zoo or sanctuary. 509 00:22:58,124 --> 00:23:00,585 I don't see anything at all 510 00:23:00,685 --> 00:23:04,105 that would resemble any place for big cats. 511 00:23:04,205 --> 00:23:05,945 And in my conversation with Jarod, 512 00:23:06,045 --> 00:23:09,185 he refers to some guy in Pennsylvania named Grant. 513 00:23:09,285 --> 00:23:11,705 That's it, you don't have no idea what happens to 'em afterwards? 514 00:23:11,805 --> 00:23:13,865 - Usually like Grant Kemmerer. Do you know him? 515 00:23:13,965 --> 00:23:16,466 - [Tim] Not yet. - [Jarod] He's in Pennsylvania. 516 00:23:16,566 --> 00:23:18,906 - So this would be Grant Kemmerer, 517 00:23:19,006 --> 00:23:21,986 who is seen behind the scenes a lot on TV 518 00:23:22,086 --> 00:23:25,066 handling the animals, taking them off stage, 519 00:23:25,166 --> 00:23:28,226 even wearing a Columbus Zoo uniform. 520 00:23:28,326 --> 00:23:31,466 Right there, it says Columbus Zoo on there. 521 00:23:31,566 --> 00:23:33,347 But he's not from the Columbus Zoo. 522 00:23:33,447 --> 00:23:35,027 He doesn't own a zoological park. 523 00:23:35,127 --> 00:23:36,907 He doesn't even have a sanctuary. 524 00:23:37,007 --> 00:23:39,867 He has a private animal entertainment company 525 00:23:39,967 --> 00:23:42,107 listed as his home address, 526 00:23:42,207 --> 00:23:44,627 which is actually just a farm tucked away here 527 00:23:44,727 --> 00:23:46,987 in the back country of Pennsylvania. 528 00:23:47,087 --> 00:23:48,628 - Right on the other side of that hill 529 00:23:48,728 --> 00:23:50,588 is where the property is. 530 00:23:50,688 --> 00:23:53,108 - [Tim] Somebody's not telling the truth. 531 00:23:53,208 --> 00:23:54,868 - Looking at the property, 532 00:23:54,968 --> 00:24:00,468 just not seeing anywhere that anybody could keep big cats. 533 00:24:00,568 --> 00:24:04,429 Really interesting to see what Tim finds out 534 00:24:04,529 --> 00:24:06,529 up there talking with him. 535 00:24:08,849 --> 00:24:11,069 - He's not there. 536 00:24:11,169 --> 00:24:16,549 There was his mother-in-law and father-in-law. 537 00:24:16,649 --> 00:24:19,590 And they said that he keeps his animals at another location. 538 00:24:19,690 --> 00:24:22,910 It's up the road, and just back over this hill. 539 00:24:23,010 --> 00:24:25,710 - So it's not the address on the USDA paperwork? 540 00:24:25,810 --> 00:24:28,310 - No. 541 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:32,570 Said it's the second house... on the right. 542 00:24:34,690 --> 00:24:37,431 - [Keith] So did they say go right at the farm? 543 00:24:37,531 --> 00:24:41,271 - No, maybe it is back there. 544 00:24:41,371 --> 00:24:44,631 "Road closed." I bet you that's it right there. 545 00:24:44,731 --> 00:24:47,991 [tense music] 546 00:24:48,091 --> 00:24:49,991 [gravel crunching] 547 00:24:50,091 --> 00:24:53,392 ♪♪ 548 00:24:53,492 --> 00:24:55,232 Something not right here. 549 00:24:55,332 --> 00:24:57,332 [gears clunk] 550 00:25:07,893 --> 00:25:09,593 They've got some cages up there. 551 00:25:09,693 --> 00:25:13,073 Oh, this is bad. This is bad, Keith. 552 00:25:13,173 --> 00:25:14,953 Look at these makeshift-- look at these cages. 553 00:25:15,053 --> 00:25:16,713 - Yeah, this is definitely it. 554 00:25:16,813 --> 00:25:18,073 - Every one of these little bitty cages 555 00:25:18,173 --> 00:25:20,173 has animals in it. 556 00:25:21,933 --> 00:25:25,874 Okay, right over there, it looks like a leopard. 557 00:25:25,974 --> 00:25:27,474 That's a leopard. - It's a leopard. 558 00:25:27,574 --> 00:25:30,514 - That's a leopard in the top cage right there. 559 00:25:30,614 --> 00:25:33,474 This is just disgusting. 560 00:25:33,574 --> 00:25:35,714 I've been telling people for years that these animals 561 00:25:35,814 --> 00:25:39,195 are ending up in private people's backyards. 562 00:25:39,295 --> 00:25:41,195 They got animals in corn cribs. 563 00:25:41,295 --> 00:25:43,195 - Look at this, look at this one. 564 00:25:43,295 --> 00:25:45,295 - It's just, it's stunning. 565 00:25:47,615 --> 00:25:49,555 There's wolves up here, Keith. 566 00:25:49,655 --> 00:25:52,015 - That's a big wolf. - Yeah, a real big wolf. 567 00:26:08,976 --> 00:26:13,357 - And then, man, look at this right next door. 568 00:26:13,457 --> 00:26:16,237 - If the cats we're looking for are on this property, 569 00:26:16,337 --> 00:26:18,337 it's gonna really upset me. 570 00:26:20,457 --> 00:26:22,457 [phone buzzing] 571 00:26:24,737 --> 00:26:26,798 Keith, I just got two-- two missed calls here 572 00:26:26,898 --> 00:26:29,438 while we were turning around here, from Miami, Florida. 573 00:26:29,538 --> 00:26:31,478 That might be Grant's, because he's originally from 574 00:26:31,578 --> 00:26:33,578 down that area, that might be his cell phone. 575 00:26:35,378 --> 00:26:36,598 We are looking for these animals, 576 00:26:36,698 --> 00:26:38,158 and we're looking for these cats, 577 00:26:38,258 --> 00:26:41,198 especially for Savannah, and lion cub Tyson, 578 00:26:41,298 --> 00:26:44,159 and black leopard Queen. How about Wyatt? 579 00:26:44,259 --> 00:26:45,639 Wyatt was the one we had on a list here. 580 00:26:45,739 --> 00:26:47,159 You have a pen and paper in your hand? 581 00:26:47,259 --> 00:26:48,959 We just got off the phone with Grant Kemmerer. 582 00:26:49,059 --> 00:26:50,839 It's actually stunning that he's confirming 583 00:26:50,939 --> 00:26:52,559 that the animals we have on this list, 584 00:26:52,659 --> 00:26:56,079 the cats we have on this list, is on his property. 585 00:26:56,179 --> 00:26:57,919 So everything you have on this sheet 586 00:26:58,019 --> 00:26:59,480 that I've given and everything else 587 00:26:59,580 --> 00:27:01,040 is at your property? - [Grant] Yes. 588 00:27:01,140 --> 00:27:03,680 - I mean, he even said, you know, Queen is with him 589 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:05,880 at a show as we speak. 590 00:27:05,980 --> 00:27:08,160 He was on his way back from a fair, 591 00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:10,440 so we know what Queen's doing probably. 592 00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:12,160 - I text him, said, "How many cats do you have?" 593 00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:14,561 And he texted back, "15-1, 594 00:27:14,661 --> 00:27:16,361 "which is the one is a jaguar 595 00:27:16,461 --> 00:27:19,121 on breeding loan to a zoo, and four lynx." 596 00:27:19,221 --> 00:27:21,601 - So are they really there? 597 00:27:21,701 --> 00:27:23,441 Is he just saying that to appease you? 598 00:27:23,541 --> 00:27:26,641 And without getting onto the property, 599 00:27:26,741 --> 00:27:30,162 we will never know. 600 00:27:30,262 --> 00:27:32,602 - If these animals are on that property, 601 00:27:32,702 --> 00:27:35,042 that's the worst place these animals could end up at. 602 00:27:35,142 --> 00:27:37,482 And this is supposed to be a sanctuary. 603 00:27:37,582 --> 00:27:40,722 This is not a sanctuary, this is a-- this is a prison. 604 00:27:40,822 --> 00:27:43,182 And that's why these guys on TV are lying. 605 00:27:46,263 --> 00:27:48,603 This is his work here, he does fairs and festivals, 606 00:27:48,703 --> 00:27:51,763 birthday parties, schools, scouts, bar mitzvahs. 607 00:27:51,863 --> 00:27:53,483 Oh, here we go, here's the list, 608 00:27:53,583 --> 00:27:55,803 some of the animals you can have at your party. 609 00:27:55,903 --> 00:27:57,603 Go down the list here. 610 00:27:57,703 --> 00:28:00,803 Black leopard. Here we go. 611 00:28:00,903 --> 00:28:04,204 Ever popular tiger cub. 612 00:28:04,304 --> 00:28:08,224 And a male or female lion for a birthday party. 613 00:28:11,224 --> 00:28:14,444 These cats that are sitting on these conservationist's laps 614 00:28:14,544 --> 00:28:16,284 are going straight from their lap 615 00:28:16,384 --> 00:28:18,705 into the animal exploitation trade. 616 00:28:26,625 --> 00:28:28,625 They're loading up animals right now. 617 00:28:30,505 --> 00:28:32,505 - [Keith] What's she doing? 618 00:28:34,306 --> 00:28:35,966 She's checking the locks. 619 00:28:36,066 --> 00:28:40,606 She either heard something and got worried, or something. 620 00:28:40,706 --> 00:28:42,986 - I can guarantee there's a big cat in there. 621 00:28:47,986 --> 00:28:49,647 And we're getting up on the interstate. 622 00:28:49,747 --> 00:28:51,747 - Yup. 623 00:29:02,387 --> 00:29:04,167 - ...because of myself. 624 00:29:04,267 --> 00:29:08,088 [lion growls] 625 00:29:08,188 --> 00:29:10,288 - [Woman] And you can say that the project's a success, right? 626 00:29:10,388 --> 00:29:11,968 - In my opinion, it was a huge success. 627 00:29:12,068 --> 00:29:14,568 I think the whole point of the project 628 00:29:14,668 --> 00:29:16,968 was to go out there and teach these cats they can trust me. 629 00:29:17,068 --> 00:29:18,848 [lion growls] Easy! 630 00:29:18,948 --> 00:29:20,488 Good girl. I'm gonna come over here. 631 00:29:20,588 --> 00:29:23,889 [audience laughs] 632 00:29:23,989 --> 00:29:25,989 - [Girl] Oh, my! 633 00:29:27,749 --> 00:29:28,889 - [Dave] All right. 634 00:29:28,989 --> 00:29:30,989 Good girl. 635 00:29:45,630 --> 00:29:48,510 [engine humming] 636 00:29:52,671 --> 00:29:56,491 - Yeah, I was just down here not three months ago, 637 00:29:56,591 --> 00:29:59,611 giving a guest lecture at a local university 638 00:29:59,711 --> 00:30:02,291 about America's tiger crisis. 639 00:30:02,391 --> 00:30:06,651 I think when I call it a crisis, sometimes people think 640 00:30:06,751 --> 00:30:11,532 I'm speaking in hyperbole, but here we are, 641 00:30:11,632 --> 00:30:15,412 tiger found chained in somebody's backyard. 642 00:30:15,512 --> 00:30:18,452 [somber music] 643 00:30:18,552 --> 00:30:22,432 ♪♪ 644 00:30:25,833 --> 00:30:28,853 The only reason we know about this tiger is because 645 00:30:28,953 --> 00:30:31,293 law enforcement officers were executing a search warrant 646 00:30:31,393 --> 00:30:34,933 for something completely unrelated to this issue. 647 00:30:35,033 --> 00:30:38,853 ♪♪ 648 00:30:38,953 --> 00:30:40,774 And if they hadn't been doing that, 649 00:30:40,874 --> 00:30:44,214 this tiger likely would still be on the end of that chain 650 00:30:44,314 --> 00:30:47,694 in the backyard or possibly even dead. 651 00:30:47,794 --> 00:30:50,654 [machine beeping] 652 00:30:50,754 --> 00:30:55,094 - She still has the blood, indicating bleeding higher up. 653 00:30:55,194 --> 00:30:58,335 - So I'm down here, 654 00:30:58,435 --> 00:31:02,655 try to assess the situation, 655 00:31:02,755 --> 00:31:07,855 determine what state, federal laws have been violated, 656 00:31:07,955 --> 00:31:10,935 and what enforcement opportunities there may be, 657 00:31:11,035 --> 00:31:14,936 and then get this cat to a reputable sanctuary. 658 00:31:15,036 --> 00:31:19,176 ♪♪ 659 00:31:19,276 --> 00:31:22,496 [indistinct chatter] 660 00:31:22,596 --> 00:31:25,416 I just wanna find out where this cat came from. 661 00:31:25,516 --> 00:31:28,657 ♪♪ 662 00:31:28,757 --> 00:31:31,297 And she's one of the lucky ones. 663 00:31:31,397 --> 00:31:33,457 So many of these animals, 664 00:31:33,557 --> 00:31:36,097 they're gonna end up dying on the end of that chain 665 00:31:36,197 --> 00:31:37,697 never to be found. 666 00:31:37,797 --> 00:31:40,037 - [Man] What'd she do here? That's new. 667 00:31:47,798 --> 00:31:50,378 - She's really underweight. She's got-- 668 00:31:50,478 --> 00:31:53,378 she had ear mites and a number of parasite issues. 669 00:31:53,478 --> 00:31:57,378 And she's had really chronic, severe diarrhea. 670 00:31:57,478 --> 00:31:59,459 [lion cub wails] 671 00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:05,219 Appears that she's been-- she's rubbed her face raw. 672 00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:08,619 In a number of spots, she's missing fur. 673 00:32:08,719 --> 00:32:13,159 And her foot pads are cracked from being chained on concrete. 674 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,380 The current state of the law, 675 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,740 the patchwork state laws we have, 676 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,620 the insufficient federal laws 677 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,380 that are fraught with loopholes, 678 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,421 really give us no meaningful way of tracking 679 00:32:32,521 --> 00:32:36,461 the coming and going of these critically endangered animals. 680 00:32:36,561 --> 00:32:40,441 ♪♪ 681 00:32:45,561 --> 00:32:47,542 - I'm here in Washington DC, 682 00:32:47,642 --> 00:32:50,142 getting ready to go over, speak to senators, congressmen, 683 00:32:50,242 --> 00:32:53,182 and congresswomen about the Big Cat Public Safety Act, 684 00:32:53,282 --> 00:32:57,302 which is gonna help prevent the private ownership, 685 00:32:57,402 --> 00:32:59,782 the breeding, all the problems we have with big cats 686 00:32:59,882 --> 00:33:01,502 in the United States of America right now. 687 00:33:01,602 --> 00:33:05,543 - Where we are now is, we only have two more days for-- 688 00:33:05,643 --> 00:33:08,943 in the House for people to co-sponsor. 689 00:33:09,043 --> 00:33:11,183 - If we can get this federal law passed, 690 00:33:11,283 --> 00:33:12,823 it's gonna go a long way to protect 691 00:33:12,923 --> 00:33:15,063 both people and the animals. 692 00:33:15,163 --> 00:33:17,063 Especially with the public safety aspect of it, 693 00:33:17,163 --> 00:33:19,144 because he is a big supporter of law enforcement, 694 00:33:19,244 --> 00:33:21,104 big supporter of first responders. 695 00:33:21,204 --> 00:33:23,544 - Staffer Sarah has already learned about the issue, 696 00:33:23,644 --> 00:33:24,984 but we want to convey to her 697 00:33:25,084 --> 00:33:27,064 that this is really important to Ohioans. 698 00:33:27,164 --> 00:33:29,384 - [Tim] I feel a little like a fish out of water, 699 00:33:29,484 --> 00:33:30,864 and I'm out of my element right here. 700 00:33:30,964 --> 00:33:32,784 - Proactive work by the agency. 701 00:33:32,884 --> 00:33:34,585 - [Woman] It's a very small portion of the... 702 00:33:34,685 --> 00:33:36,545 - [Tim] I'm not used to this chess game they play here 703 00:33:36,645 --> 00:33:38,545 with the way politicians work. 704 00:33:38,645 --> 00:33:41,025 - This should not be a political issue. 705 00:33:41,125 --> 00:33:42,825 - [Tim] But it's something I'm learning. 706 00:33:42,925 --> 00:33:44,625 - Let's see if he has any suggestions. 707 00:33:44,725 --> 00:33:46,745 - [Tim] And luckily, I'm here working as a team. 708 00:33:46,845 --> 00:33:49,145 And these are the men and women that can help me. 709 00:33:49,245 --> 00:33:52,026 - ...know where the big cats are in their communities. 710 00:33:52,126 --> 00:33:54,946 - We took six of these out of a house in Lancaster, Ohio. 711 00:33:55,046 --> 00:33:57,306 This mountain lion was loose in downtown Dayton, 712 00:33:57,406 --> 00:33:59,026 chewed through a door of an empty house. 713 00:33:59,126 --> 00:34:00,626 Brought across state lines to Harlem 714 00:34:00,726 --> 00:34:02,226 in this apartment building. 715 00:34:02,326 --> 00:34:04,306 There's an African lion inside there. 716 00:34:04,406 --> 00:34:06,427 We actually had a tiger jump over the firefighters 717 00:34:06,527 --> 00:34:08,467 as they were fighting a house fire. 718 00:34:08,567 --> 00:34:10,587 We're making it so it's just common sense 719 00:34:10,687 --> 00:34:12,387 that you have to register your animal. 720 00:34:12,487 --> 00:34:13,627 We wanna know where they're at 721 00:34:13,727 --> 00:34:15,307 as cops, firemen, and paramedics. 722 00:34:15,407 --> 00:34:17,467 - I guess I didn't really realise the extent 723 00:34:17,567 --> 00:34:19,627 of how many animals there were, yeah. 724 00:34:19,727 --> 00:34:21,347 - 38 big cats. - Yeah. 725 00:34:21,447 --> 00:34:23,348 - I think in the long run it's gonna be worth the while. 726 00:34:23,448 --> 00:34:24,948 I think the most amazing thing is, 727 00:34:25,048 --> 00:34:27,508 is that people don't realise being on the frontline 728 00:34:27,608 --> 00:34:28,948 of what's really going on out there. 729 00:34:29,048 --> 00:34:30,188 And when you show it to them, 730 00:34:30,288 --> 00:34:31,628 it's a whole different ball game. 731 00:34:31,728 --> 00:34:33,728 ...to Harlem in this apartment building. 732 00:34:44,569 --> 00:34:46,989 - [Rus] The menagerie listed under species 733 00:34:47,089 --> 00:34:49,829 is exactly the same. - They don't list two lion cubs. 734 00:34:49,929 --> 00:34:52,669 - [Tim] The only cats I see is black leopard, cougar and tiger. 735 00:34:52,769 --> 00:34:56,590 - [Carney Anne] At the time that that letter was written... 736 00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:58,470 - The situation where it actually shows you 737 00:34:58,570 --> 00:35:01,630 a tiger came from a backyard zoo, 738 00:35:01,730 --> 00:35:04,550 taken to New York City, and put on "The Today Show." 739 00:35:04,650 --> 00:35:07,070 We believe it was one of our tigers, Millie. 740 00:35:07,170 --> 00:35:11,111 - There's no mention of any big cats at all. 741 00:35:11,211 --> 00:35:14,911 And we know that there was at least two tigers and a lion, 742 00:35:15,011 --> 00:35:16,991 and it seems that that information 743 00:35:17,091 --> 00:35:19,871 is what's being kept from us. 744 00:35:19,971 --> 00:35:22,591 - So we're trying to find a cat named Emma 745 00:35:22,691 --> 00:35:27,072 that went from Jarod Miller to Andrew Simmons, 746 00:35:27,172 --> 00:35:29,392 and the State of New York has no record. 747 00:35:29,492 --> 00:35:31,392 [phone line trilling] 748 00:35:31,492 --> 00:35:34,712 - Hey, Jeff, we are trying to look into 749 00:35:34,812 --> 00:35:36,952 this tiger named Jake. 750 00:35:37,052 --> 00:35:39,912 Jake was on a couple of TV shows. 751 00:35:40,012 --> 00:35:41,753 We're not finding anything in the paperwork, 752 00:35:41,853 --> 00:35:46,793 but we know that Jake ended up at a roadside zoo. 753 00:35:46,893 --> 00:35:48,713 - [Jeff] Yeah, I remember the name is familiar, 754 00:35:48,813 --> 00:35:51,873 so, yeah, let me do some research on that roadside zoo. 755 00:35:51,973 --> 00:35:53,433 - All right, let's see what's next. 756 00:35:53,533 --> 00:35:55,273 - We've got the dates on this one, 757 00:35:55,373 --> 00:35:58,354 so it doesn't have any lions on here at all. 758 00:35:58,454 --> 00:36:00,634 And we know for a fact there was lions there. 759 00:36:00,734 --> 00:36:04,234 - We've tried to get records with the State Wildlife Agency, 760 00:36:04,334 --> 00:36:07,514 but, um, they won't produce those records. 761 00:36:07,614 --> 00:36:09,554 - So there's probably no way 762 00:36:09,654 --> 00:36:10,954 we're gonna find out those two females? 763 00:36:11,054 --> 00:36:12,554 - Be very, very difficult. 764 00:36:12,654 --> 00:36:15,395 - You know, it's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. 765 00:36:15,495 --> 00:36:17,075 - These records used to be provided, 766 00:36:17,175 --> 00:36:20,555 and now we're in this new era of zero transparency 767 00:36:20,655 --> 00:36:22,235 with the US Department of Agriculture. 768 00:36:22,335 --> 00:36:25,035 The position that they've taken is to withhold 769 00:36:25,135 --> 00:36:27,595 what the animal inventory is at the time 770 00:36:27,695 --> 00:36:29,516 in their entirety. 771 00:36:29,616 --> 00:36:32,756 - For all states? - For all states. 772 00:36:32,856 --> 00:36:36,436 We have prepared an appeal against the USDA 773 00:36:36,536 --> 00:36:41,236 to seek disclosure of these public records. 774 00:36:41,336 --> 00:36:44,076 If they deny our appeal, then we are prepared to consider 775 00:36:44,176 --> 00:36:46,517 all available legal options, 776 00:36:46,617 --> 00:36:48,617 including litigation. 777 00:36:53,137 --> 00:36:56,037 [pensive music] 778 00:36:56,137 --> 00:36:59,677 ♪♪ 779 00:36:59,777 --> 00:37:01,278 - [Tim] Look at that, right down there, 780 00:37:01,378 --> 00:37:04,838 it says martial arts and some other thing down here. 781 00:37:04,938 --> 00:37:08,798 - He's here from Animal Planet, please welcome Dave Salmoni. 782 00:37:08,898 --> 00:37:10,898 [audience cheers] 783 00:37:15,058 --> 00:37:17,479 - [Tim] Do you recognise that name at all, David Salmoni? 784 00:37:17,579 --> 00:37:18,839 He needs to contact me right away, 785 00:37:18,939 --> 00:37:21,119 because I think he can help me out. 786 00:37:21,219 --> 00:37:22,719 - Okay, why don't you sit there? 787 00:37:22,819 --> 00:37:25,959 [leopard grunts] [audience gasps] 788 00:37:26,059 --> 00:37:27,879 He's just trying to get settled. 789 00:37:27,979 --> 00:37:29,639 - Okay, we left a card, 790 00:37:29,739 --> 00:37:31,399 don't know that's gonna do any good or not, 791 00:37:31,499 --> 00:37:33,920 but at least we have one of the locations checked. 792 00:37:34,020 --> 00:37:37,200 - Big teeth and big claws. - Big teeth and claw-- ow! 793 00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:39,280 - Was this a good idea bringing this one into the studio? 794 00:37:39,380 --> 00:37:40,920 - Well, you can see, at this age, they still like... 795 00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:42,560 - [Tim] We got information directly to people 796 00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:44,120 that know him, 797 00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:45,920 but it's up to him now to do the right thing. 798 00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:47,440 - What is this lion's name? 799 00:37:47,540 --> 00:37:49,601 [audience cheers] Oh, no, he doesn't like it. 800 00:37:49,701 --> 00:37:52,141 He doesn't like it. - Oh, he does. 801 00:37:56,741 --> 00:37:59,461 - [Tim] This is his street right here, right here. 802 00:38:04,582 --> 00:38:05,962 So I was just seeing if Dave was here. 803 00:38:06,062 --> 00:38:07,842 I wanted to talk to him a second. 804 00:38:07,942 --> 00:38:09,942 Okay, thanks. 805 00:38:12,062 --> 00:38:13,842 My name's Tim Harrison, just have a question. 806 00:38:13,942 --> 00:38:15,402 - [Dave] What can I do for you? 807 00:38:15,502 --> 00:38:17,602 - The organization I'm with is Outreach for Animals, 808 00:38:17,702 --> 00:38:19,162 and what we're trying to do is find out what happens 809 00:38:19,262 --> 00:38:21,123 to cats after they've been used on TV. 810 00:38:21,223 --> 00:38:23,963 This is the partial list of your ambassador cats. 811 00:38:24,063 --> 00:38:26,363 I'd really appreciate if we can find out 812 00:38:26,463 --> 00:38:27,883 what happened to some of these. 813 00:38:27,983 --> 00:38:30,483 And we're looking especially for Mason, Tyson, 814 00:38:30,583 --> 00:38:32,523 you know, the top page here, if you really look at it. 815 00:38:32,623 --> 00:38:34,323 We have some other ones on here too, 816 00:38:34,423 --> 00:38:36,704 but just to get a basic idea-- - What you have to realise is... 817 00:38:39,504 --> 00:38:42,564 - I know, that's the downfall, that's what we're finding out. 818 00:38:42,664 --> 00:38:44,684 And do you think it's right to do this with a cat 819 00:38:44,784 --> 00:38:48,044 and then it just disappears, nobody knows what happens? 820 00:38:48,144 --> 00:38:50,444 Oh, you do know where they all are? You know where everything's at? 821 00:38:50,544 --> 00:38:51,724 And that's what we're trying to find out. 822 00:38:51,824 --> 00:38:53,445 Where do they go after they're done? 823 00:38:53,545 --> 00:38:55,085 - They don't go anywhere. - They don't go anywhere? 824 00:38:55,185 --> 00:38:56,925 - They stay at their place, their accredited place. 825 00:38:57,025 --> 00:38:58,765 - What's their accredited place? That's on this here? 826 00:38:58,865 --> 00:39:00,865 That's an accredited facility? 827 00:39:03,625 --> 00:39:05,625 - [Tim] No, but somebody at least that's accredited and-- 828 00:39:08,066 --> 00:39:11,046 So what we'll do is we have a certain set of criteria, 829 00:39:11,146 --> 00:39:13,846 and so I and my providers, 830 00:39:13,946 --> 00:39:15,766 and Animal Planet, and every time we partner, 831 00:39:15,866 --> 00:39:17,526 anything that is ABC... - Okay. 832 00:39:17,626 --> 00:39:19,846 - ...has to meet their criteria, right? 833 00:39:19,946 --> 00:39:22,646 And then we at Discovery and Animal Planet, 834 00:39:22,746 --> 00:39:25,067 because I've been doing this for 18 years... 835 00:39:28,067 --> 00:39:29,647 I doubt you'll get the help. 836 00:39:29,747 --> 00:39:32,407 If anybody ever decides to talk to you, great. 837 00:39:32,507 --> 00:39:34,607 - How about you? - I just talked to you-- 838 00:39:34,707 --> 00:39:36,207 - Did you tell me where they're at? 839 00:39:36,307 --> 00:39:38,467 Okay, then you didn't help me. 840 00:39:40,908 --> 00:39:43,808 Dave, we have to change the way we're educating. 841 00:39:43,908 --> 00:39:47,368 We also have to change the way things are going here, okay? 842 00:39:47,468 --> 00:39:49,928 Now I'm asking you, I'm begging you to help. 843 00:39:50,028 --> 00:39:51,608 I'm begging you. 844 00:39:51,708 --> 00:39:54,608 - It's dumbfounding that we have to go to this extent 845 00:39:54,708 --> 00:39:57,529 to find a protected endangered species 846 00:39:57,629 --> 00:39:59,529 in the United States of America. 847 00:39:59,629 --> 00:40:01,689 - As far as this, you see... 848 00:40:01,789 --> 00:40:03,569 I'm not gonna expose these people to any level 849 00:40:03,669 --> 00:40:05,929 of any extra, you know... 850 00:40:06,029 --> 00:40:08,489 - Okay, but I asked, right? - You asked, good for you. 851 00:40:08,589 --> 00:40:10,169 - But they're hiding it from us. 852 00:40:10,269 --> 00:40:12,610 And that should be a huge red flag for the public. 853 00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:15,610 - [Tim] Can't find them. Now, if we look for these-- 854 00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:17,010 - If you can't find them, that doesn't mean 855 00:40:17,110 --> 00:40:19,110 that they've disappeared. It means... 856 00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:22,530 - [Tim, on recording] Now if we look for these-- 857 00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:24,010 - [Dave, on recording] If you can't them, 858 00:40:24,110 --> 00:40:25,810 that doesn't mean that they've disappeared. 859 00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:28,211 That means you need to learn how to find them better. 860 00:40:28,311 --> 00:40:29,771 [line disconnect tone] 861 00:40:29,871 --> 00:40:31,691 - Challenge accepted. 862 00:40:31,791 --> 00:40:34,571 [tense music] 863 00:40:34,671 --> 00:40:37,691 My name's Jeff Kramer, and I've been involved 864 00:40:37,791 --> 00:40:40,771 in animal welfare for over 30 years. 865 00:40:40,871 --> 00:40:42,331 Animals have always been a passion of mine, 866 00:40:42,431 --> 00:40:44,972 and my background has always been research. 867 00:40:45,072 --> 00:40:47,492 So to be able to combine that research skill 868 00:40:47,592 --> 00:40:50,312 and use it for the animals, like, it's a natural fit. 869 00:40:52,352 --> 00:40:54,092 The world is all digital, 870 00:40:54,192 --> 00:40:56,212 so every part of everybody's life 871 00:40:56,312 --> 00:40:59,373 is probably somewhere out there waiting to be found. 872 00:40:59,473 --> 00:41:02,053 It's just a matter of having the skills to figure out 873 00:41:02,153 --> 00:41:04,693 how the pieces all come together. 874 00:41:04,793 --> 00:41:06,533 - [Tim] Everybody we've talked to so far 875 00:41:06,633 --> 00:41:07,973 have always pushed it off on somebody else 876 00:41:08,073 --> 00:41:09,573 who doesn't know, or lost their records. 877 00:41:09,673 --> 00:41:11,293 - Oh, that's not in my case. 878 00:41:11,393 --> 00:41:12,533 - [Jeff] You know, it might be the picture, 879 00:41:12,633 --> 00:41:14,013 it might be the video, 880 00:41:14,113 --> 00:41:16,494 it might be the comment on a picture or a video. 881 00:41:16,594 --> 00:41:17,934 - [Dave] I know where they all are, I know where they are. 882 00:41:18,034 --> 00:41:19,654 - [Tim] Oh, you do know where they all are? 883 00:41:19,754 --> 00:41:21,694 Then why can't anybody else find out where they're at? 884 00:41:21,794 --> 00:41:24,134 - [Jeff] I've encountered some social media pages 885 00:41:24,234 --> 00:41:28,454 where I've looked through 12,000 photos to find one. 886 00:41:28,554 --> 00:41:29,854 And it's like, bam! [hand slaps] 887 00:41:29,954 --> 00:41:31,175 There it is. 888 00:41:31,275 --> 00:41:33,415 - [Tim] I'm talking about backyards. 889 00:41:33,515 --> 00:41:34,815 I'm hoping so. 890 00:41:34,915 --> 00:41:37,395 So none of these are in a roadside zoo, or-- 891 00:41:40,795 --> 00:41:43,695 [tense music] 892 00:41:43,795 --> 00:41:45,695 ♪♪ 893 00:41:45,795 --> 00:41:48,716 [children shouting, screaming] 894 00:41:55,356 --> 00:41:57,616 [rooster crowing] 895 00:41:57,716 --> 00:42:00,816 - [Tim] Yeah, when I came in to Critter Country here, 896 00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:02,897 a gentleman, I think is the owner, 897 00:42:02,997 --> 00:42:04,937 recognised me right away. 898 00:42:05,037 --> 00:42:07,297 And I said, "I'm here to come see your big cats." 899 00:42:07,397 --> 00:42:09,657 And he didn't pull any punches, he told me what was going on, 900 00:42:09,757 --> 00:42:11,497 and he ended up basically telling me that 901 00:42:11,597 --> 00:42:15,577 some of David Salmoni's ambassador cats are here. 902 00:42:15,677 --> 00:42:18,898 He even told me that some of those cats, believe it or not, 903 00:42:18,998 --> 00:42:22,418 was raised in his own home, raised in their living room. 904 00:42:22,518 --> 00:42:24,518 [keyboard clacking] 905 00:42:28,478 --> 00:42:29,978 He had a black leopard that was actually 906 00:42:30,078 --> 00:42:31,858 the one that was used on the "Tyra Banks Show," 907 00:42:31,958 --> 00:42:34,659 when he came out as Tarzan, and then he took that cat out. 908 00:42:34,759 --> 00:42:36,299 And it was not happy. [leopard growling] 909 00:42:36,399 --> 00:42:37,739 - But these guys are actually really rare-- okay. 910 00:42:37,839 --> 00:42:39,059 [leopard growls] - [Tyra screams] 911 00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:41,459 - Okay, you ready? 912 00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:42,819 She's fine. Okay. 913 00:42:42,919 --> 00:42:45,179 That's just her sort of saying, hey... 914 00:42:45,279 --> 00:42:46,659 - [Tim] This cat didn't end up going 915 00:42:46,759 --> 00:42:49,219 to an accredited professional facility. 916 00:42:49,319 --> 00:42:52,620 This animal ended up in a petting zoo, 917 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,260 just a backyard menagerie. 918 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,260 It's even called Critter Country Farm. 919 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,660 [audience applause] 920 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,660 The other yellow leopard that's been used 921 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,101 quite a bit by David Salmoni and was on Jimmy Kimmel's show, 922 00:43:06,201 --> 00:43:07,941 and in fact Paris Hilton held it. 923 00:43:08,041 --> 00:43:09,541 - [Jimmy] Paris is very comfortable with this animal. 924 00:43:09,641 --> 00:43:10,981 - You an see she's an old pro. - I love animals. 925 00:43:11,081 --> 00:43:12,701 - [Tim] And then also it was used on that 926 00:43:12,801 --> 00:43:15,221 "Fran Drescher Show." - [Fran] Oh, you sweet thing. 927 00:43:15,321 --> 00:43:17,061 - [Tim] Ended up, when its use was done, 928 00:43:17,161 --> 00:43:20,741 when it reached a certain size, it was dumped also here, 929 00:43:20,841 --> 00:43:23,822 and put in the same small cage as the black leopard. 930 00:43:23,922 --> 00:43:26,022 - [Fran] And what is the future for this animal? 931 00:43:26,122 --> 00:43:28,382 - [Dave] This guy's gonna be what they call an education animal. 932 00:43:28,482 --> 00:43:31,582 So he'll go around and he'll be 933 00:43:31,682 --> 00:43:32,902 teaching people about conservation. 934 00:43:33,002 --> 00:43:34,502 So he'll be... 935 00:43:34,602 --> 00:43:36,102 - The sad part is, for five to eight years, 936 00:43:36,202 --> 00:43:37,783 they've been living in this condition right here, 937 00:43:37,883 --> 00:43:39,663 five to eight years. 938 00:43:39,763 --> 00:43:43,263 These cages are only about 15 foot by 15, maybe 10 feet. 939 00:43:43,363 --> 00:43:47,623 They're separated, each one's a separate cage. 940 00:43:47,723 --> 00:43:49,223 While this is going on right now, 941 00:43:49,323 --> 00:43:51,423 they had to move them out of these cages, 942 00:43:51,523 --> 00:43:53,103 and be placed in the holding cages, 943 00:43:53,203 --> 00:43:55,264 which is basically just traveling cages, 944 00:43:55,364 --> 00:43:58,064 small ones so that they can fix the fencing. 945 00:43:58,164 --> 00:43:59,624 So for the last three weeks, 946 00:43:59,724 --> 00:44:02,664 they've been living in these travel cages. 947 00:44:02,764 --> 00:44:06,744 This is why David Salmoni can't tell people the truth. 948 00:44:06,844 --> 00:44:08,904 - There's no positive, there's no upside to telling you... 949 00:44:09,004 --> 00:44:11,505 - The truth, telling the truth. - Right. 950 00:44:11,605 --> 00:44:13,305 - There's no upside to telling the truth, okay. 951 00:44:13,405 --> 00:44:14,865 This is why he can't say, you know, 952 00:44:14,965 --> 00:44:16,665 when I'm done with this cat, doing the circuit, 953 00:44:16,765 --> 00:44:19,025 the TV shows and all the photo ops, 954 00:44:19,125 --> 00:44:21,625 he can't tell you that they ended up, 955 00:44:21,725 --> 00:44:25,506 you know, dumped into a farm in Pennsylvania. 956 00:44:25,606 --> 00:44:26,526 - [Dave] You wanna grab him? Watch your clothes. 957 00:44:26,606 --> 00:44:28,026 - [Fran] Where's his mama? 958 00:44:28,126 --> 00:44:30,586 - His mum's at a nice little zoo somewhere. 959 00:44:30,686 --> 00:44:32,506 - [Fran] Aww! 960 00:44:32,606 --> 00:44:34,026 - In the name of conservation, 961 00:44:34,126 --> 00:44:36,586 they allowed these two ambassador cats 962 00:44:36,686 --> 00:44:38,466 to breed here in this backyard. 963 00:44:38,566 --> 00:44:40,826 [keyboard clacking] 964 00:44:40,926 --> 00:44:43,667 It's so sad. 965 00:44:43,767 --> 00:44:45,767 [keyboard clacking] 966 00:45:07,448 --> 00:45:10,028 We really do have to pay attention 967 00:45:10,128 --> 00:45:12,348 to what these conservationists are saying. 968 00:45:12,448 --> 00:45:13,589 - [Woman] ...furry friends. Hi, Jack. 969 00:45:13,689 --> 00:45:15,189 - Hello. - [Woman] Who do you have there? 970 00:45:15,289 --> 00:45:16,949 - [Jack] This is a baby leopard, and the leopard's.... 971 00:45:17,049 --> 00:45:19,469 - A perfect example, Jack was on a TV show, 972 00:45:19,569 --> 00:45:21,589 he had a leopard, a leopard cub on there. 973 00:45:21,689 --> 00:45:23,989 And he's talking about, it was part of the SSP, 974 00:45:24,089 --> 00:45:26,509 Species Survival Plan. - [Jack] Very endangered animal, 975 00:45:26,609 --> 00:45:28,189 it's in the Species Survival Plan 976 00:45:28,289 --> 00:45:29,510 with American Zoo and Aquarium Association. 977 00:45:29,610 --> 00:45:30,950 So we monitor every one of these cats, 978 00:45:31,050 --> 00:45:32,750 wherever they're bred, and this animal... 979 00:45:32,850 --> 00:45:34,830 - The SSP, the Species Survival Plan 980 00:45:34,930 --> 00:45:37,670 is actually a legitimate program with the AZA. 981 00:45:37,770 --> 00:45:40,710 So I immediately went to the SSP books, the studbooks, 982 00:45:40,810 --> 00:45:43,550 opened them up, we tried to find that leopard. 983 00:45:43,650 --> 00:45:46,371 Couldn't find it. That cat's not there. 984 00:45:47,611 --> 00:45:49,791 If it's not in that book, 985 00:45:49,891 --> 00:45:52,431 it does not exist in the SSP. 986 00:45:52,531 --> 00:45:56,671 That got me thinking, "What's going on here?" 987 00:45:56,771 --> 00:45:57,911 When he was finished with the cub, 988 00:45:58,011 --> 00:46:00,191 and he was done with it, a woman came on, 989 00:46:00,291 --> 00:46:04,472 and she started to walk off with the leopard cub. 990 00:46:04,572 --> 00:46:07,472 It was Grant Kemmerer's wife. 991 00:46:07,572 --> 00:46:10,592 Why is Grant Kemmerer's wife 992 00:46:10,692 --> 00:46:14,592 taking a leopard cub that's allegedly an SSP cat 993 00:46:14,692 --> 00:46:17,033 off of Jack's lap and disappearing 994 00:46:17,133 --> 00:46:18,633 off the stage with it? 995 00:46:18,733 --> 00:46:21,913 [tense music] 996 00:46:22,013 --> 00:46:23,713 We started to investigate a little deeper. 997 00:46:23,813 --> 00:46:27,553 We went in and found some paperwork, found a transfer, 998 00:46:27,653 --> 00:46:29,753 six months after that TV show 999 00:46:29,853 --> 00:46:33,194 taking a leopard from Grant Kemmerer 1000 00:46:33,294 --> 00:46:36,254 to Critter Country Farm. 1001 00:46:41,574 --> 00:46:44,114 How do we know if that was the same cat 1002 00:46:44,214 --> 00:46:46,834 that Jack Hanna had on his lap? We'll never know. 1003 00:46:46,934 --> 00:46:50,815 ♪♪ 1004 00:47:05,496 --> 00:47:07,496 [birds chirping] 1005 00:47:14,456 --> 00:47:17,236 [indistinct chatter] 1006 00:47:17,336 --> 00:47:19,316 Let me see if I can help out. 1007 00:47:19,416 --> 00:47:22,337 [muffled voices in distance] 1008 00:47:32,977 --> 00:47:35,518 All right, well, she's definitely not 1009 00:47:35,618 --> 00:47:37,158 going to work with us. 1010 00:47:37,258 --> 00:47:39,558 She's definitely not gonna turn over any cats. 1011 00:47:39,658 --> 00:47:42,598 In her mind, 1012 00:47:42,698 --> 00:47:44,718 she knows something bad can happen, 1013 00:47:44,818 --> 00:47:47,098 but she says, "We'll just take it as it comes." 1014 00:47:50,818 --> 00:47:54,559 What you see back there is the absolute poster child 1015 00:47:54,659 --> 00:47:57,299 for why we need the Big Cat Public Safety Act. 1016 00:48:22,220 --> 00:48:24,221 [sirens wailing] 1017 00:48:27,781 --> 00:48:30,541 - [Woman] Clayton County 911, what's the location of your emergency? 1018 00:48:50,062 --> 00:48:52,062 [airplane engine roaring] 1019 00:48:55,343 --> 00:48:58,163 - Here I am coming back to Washington DC again. 1020 00:48:58,263 --> 00:49:00,243 I got a call from Jason Osborne. 1021 00:49:00,343 --> 00:49:02,763 Jason has got his fingers on the pulse out here. 1022 00:49:02,863 --> 00:49:04,763 He's working with the Big Cat Public Safety Act here 1023 00:49:04,863 --> 00:49:06,603 on a national level. 1024 00:49:06,703 --> 00:49:08,203 So he knows what's going on. 1025 00:49:08,303 --> 00:49:10,443 And he says we have a big issue right now. 1026 00:49:10,543 --> 00:49:12,324 So we're gonna find out what that is. 1027 00:49:12,424 --> 00:49:14,524 - But we've been confronted recently with 1028 00:49:14,624 --> 00:49:16,324 what we feel is a good opportunity, 1029 00:49:16,424 --> 00:49:18,284 and a good member, Senator Portman 1030 00:49:18,384 --> 00:49:21,404 from your home state, he's a great guy, 1031 00:49:21,504 --> 00:49:24,324 very knowledgeable about this issue, 1032 00:49:24,424 --> 00:49:27,405 and wants to do the right thing on this. 1033 00:49:27,505 --> 00:49:30,565 And what we came to realise is that Jack Hanna 1034 00:49:30,665 --> 00:49:33,285 and the Columbus Zoo have come in 1035 00:49:33,385 --> 00:49:34,845 and kind of put a halt on it. 1036 00:49:34,945 --> 00:49:38,365 He's been to DC quite a bit on this specific issue. 1037 00:49:38,465 --> 00:49:39,765 He's been into the members' offices. 1038 00:49:39,865 --> 00:49:42,486 He's on the phone with staff. 1039 00:49:42,586 --> 00:49:46,326 And for one person to hold this up 1040 00:49:46,426 --> 00:49:51,086 in this senator's case, it's tragic. 1041 00:49:51,186 --> 00:49:52,886 - Well, whenever we go to these offices, 1042 00:49:52,986 --> 00:49:54,766 people are like, "You should get Jack Hanna involved." 1043 00:49:54,866 --> 00:49:57,526 We're like, "He is absolutely the biggest problem 1044 00:49:57,626 --> 00:49:58,847 that we're facing." 1045 00:49:58,947 --> 00:50:00,647 - Well, we're in a tug of war, right now. 1046 00:50:00,747 --> 00:50:03,407 Every time we start pulling, 1047 00:50:03,507 --> 00:50:06,207 the other side starts pulling a little of that back. 1048 00:50:06,307 --> 00:50:08,247 - As you're walking out the door of these offices, 1049 00:50:08,347 --> 00:50:10,007 you can bet that it won't be long 1050 00:50:10,107 --> 00:50:11,607 after you're out of the building 1051 00:50:11,707 --> 00:50:13,827 that they're gonna be in there opposing it. 1052 00:50:17,988 --> 00:50:19,608 - [Jason] For folks to come up here, 1053 00:50:19,708 --> 00:50:21,488 and they bring these animals up here-- 1054 00:50:21,588 --> 00:50:23,608 - They're bringing animals to Washington DC? 1055 00:50:23,708 --> 00:50:25,608 - Oh, yeah. - Oh, wow. 1056 00:50:25,708 --> 00:50:27,848 - Every year there's actually, 1057 00:50:27,948 --> 00:50:31,609 right over there in the House in the Longworth Building, 1058 00:50:31,709 --> 00:50:34,249 every year there's a reception that Doc Antle hosts 1059 00:50:34,349 --> 00:50:36,729 where he brings in tiger cubs. 1060 00:50:36,829 --> 00:50:38,949 - Every year? - Every year. 1061 00:50:41,709 --> 00:50:43,169 So some of these congressmen that have been 1062 00:50:43,269 --> 00:50:46,950 our opponents for years are hosting him. 1063 00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:57,450 In DC, the law is, you're not allowed 1064 00:50:57,550 --> 00:51:01,570 to touch these animals. 1065 00:51:01,670 --> 00:51:05,131 You know, this is illegal, but yet they still let it 1066 00:51:05,231 --> 00:51:07,531 continue to happen because it's happening in Congress. 1067 00:51:07,631 --> 00:51:09,531 - Wow! - Yeah, it's awful. 1068 00:51:09,631 --> 00:51:11,491 - How do you fight that? How are you fighting it, Jason? 1069 00:51:11,591 --> 00:51:13,651 - Exactly. 1070 00:51:13,751 --> 00:51:15,491 - It's such a difficult thing to overcome, 1071 00:51:15,591 --> 00:51:17,291 because when somebody's standing in the presence 1072 00:51:17,391 --> 00:51:19,932 of a cheetah or some other magnificent animal, 1073 00:51:20,032 --> 00:51:22,132 they're just focused on, when do I get to pet it? 1074 00:51:22,232 --> 00:51:24,372 They're not thinking about the underlying issues. 1075 00:51:24,472 --> 00:51:27,132 So it just causes such a huge problem for us 1076 00:51:27,232 --> 00:51:29,372 to be able to try and overcome. 1077 00:51:29,472 --> 00:51:31,472 [keyboard clacking] 1078 00:51:35,473 --> 00:51:37,693 - The only thing that could overcome this is, 1079 00:51:37,793 --> 00:51:41,453 while the Columbus Zoo is the biggest zoo in Ohio, 1080 00:51:41,553 --> 00:51:43,973 there are a number of other AZA zoos in Ohio. 1081 00:51:44,073 --> 00:51:46,333 The AZA supports the bill. 1082 00:51:46,433 --> 00:51:49,013 So if we could get those guys to sign on, 1083 00:51:49,113 --> 00:51:51,894 so we could go in and prove 1084 00:51:51,994 --> 00:51:54,534 that Columbus and Jack Hanna are outliers, 1085 00:51:54,634 --> 00:51:56,214 that they're on the wrong side of this issue. 1086 00:51:56,314 --> 00:51:59,574 That is the only way that we're going to be able 1087 00:51:59,674 --> 00:52:01,054 to get through. 1088 00:52:01,154 --> 00:52:03,414 - I'm calling to speak with Liz Fowler. 1089 00:52:03,514 --> 00:52:07,135 Hey, this is Tim Harrison. I was calling to speak with Thane Maynard if he's in. 1090 00:52:07,235 --> 00:52:08,935 This is Tim Harrison calling back for Bob, 1091 00:52:09,035 --> 00:52:10,615 he told me to give him a call back. 1092 00:52:10,715 --> 00:52:12,715 - [Bob] Thanks for reaching out to us. 1093 00:52:15,995 --> 00:52:17,695 - This is their baby. 1094 00:52:17,795 --> 00:52:21,035 So we really need you all to step up and do the right thing. 1095 00:52:25,596 --> 00:52:27,496 - That's great, that's exactly what I wanna hear. 1096 00:52:27,596 --> 00:52:31,176 Just staying away from private breeders, private ownership. 1097 00:52:31,276 --> 00:52:32,936 Unless you're involved with anything like that, 1098 00:52:33,036 --> 00:52:34,656 you're doing fine. 1099 00:52:34,756 --> 00:52:37,977 - [Thane] I know you know... 1100 00:52:38,077 --> 00:52:42,417 So he must have sent four out of five to... 1101 00:52:42,517 --> 00:52:44,377 - So there's nothing we can do about that. 1102 00:52:44,477 --> 00:52:46,697 What I'm doing is trying to get the four zoos here, 1103 00:52:46,797 --> 00:52:48,177 because I know I'm not gonna get Columbus. 1104 00:52:48,277 --> 00:52:50,537 - We'll do some process here. 1105 00:52:50,637 --> 00:52:53,018 I imagine we can weigh in. - Excellent. 1106 00:52:53,118 --> 00:52:55,118 [Liz Fowler speaking] 1107 00:52:56,838 --> 00:52:59,078 - That's good, that's good. I like to hear that. 1108 00:53:03,958 --> 00:53:06,138 - I can't thank you enough, Liz, that's encouraging, 1109 00:53:06,238 --> 00:53:08,378 that's exactly what I wanna hear. 1110 00:53:08,478 --> 00:53:09,659 Looks good. 1111 00:53:09,759 --> 00:53:11,539 Now she's got the Northeast zoos, 1112 00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:13,779 that's Cleveland, Toledo, and Akron. 1113 00:53:13,879 --> 00:53:16,259 - [Man] Let me talk with our curators tomorrow, 1114 00:53:16,359 --> 00:53:17,979 and I'll get a sense of where they are. 1115 00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:19,819 - Yeah, I haven't talked to Doug yet, 1116 00:53:19,919 --> 00:53:22,739 but I'm going up to Detroit Zoo with Ron Kagan up there, 1117 00:53:22,839 --> 00:53:26,860 he's a big supporter, and have a conference call with Doug from the Akron Zoo. 1118 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,500 And we're gonna see if we can't get on the same page. 1119 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,820 - [Doug] Modern standard is and what the expectation is, I doubt it will work. 1120 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,420 - So my suggestion, because I think Tim in a way 1121 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,501 has put a challenge in front of us, 1122 00:53:40,601 --> 00:53:45,581 I'd like us to be in front of it rather than others actually. 1123 00:53:45,681 --> 00:53:47,661 - [Doug] I totally agree with you. 1124 00:53:47,761 --> 00:53:49,761 And the bottom line is... 1125 00:53:54,401 --> 00:53:56,382 - Absolutely right. 1126 00:53:56,482 --> 00:53:59,902 - [Doug] And we are the leaders in animal care and welfare. 1127 00:54:00,002 --> 00:54:03,382 And that then requires us to take that position. 1128 00:54:03,482 --> 00:54:06,542 - It's not some radical extreme view. 1129 00:54:06,642 --> 00:54:09,702 This is, we want to keep your kids safe, 1130 00:54:09,802 --> 00:54:11,302 if you're our neighbors, 1131 00:54:11,402 --> 00:54:13,743 and we want to keep the animals safe. 1132 00:54:13,843 --> 00:54:16,443 Why is anyone arguing about that? 1133 00:54:26,523 --> 00:54:28,784 - I had a fan that used to show up at my shows, 1134 00:54:28,884 --> 00:54:30,704 because I used to do live shows. 1135 00:54:30,804 --> 00:54:34,944 I would come to places and show animals I rescued. 1136 00:54:35,044 --> 00:54:37,664 So he'd show up and he'd talk about snakes. 1137 00:54:37,764 --> 00:54:39,744 He was big in snakes, and he really loved-- 1138 00:54:39,844 --> 00:54:43,825 I'd get him up and help him hold the big 15-, 16-foot python. 1139 00:54:43,925 --> 00:54:46,465 He loved it, he loved the snakes and the pythons. 1140 00:54:46,565 --> 00:54:48,465 And he saw me working with these animals. 1141 00:54:48,565 --> 00:54:52,545 He watched all the newscasts and all the TV shows I was on. 1142 00:54:52,645 --> 00:54:54,225 Go back to being a paramedic 1143 00:54:54,325 --> 00:54:57,265 after... being Jungle Tim for while. 1144 00:54:57,365 --> 00:55:00,506 It's what I've done for national shows and also local shows. 1145 00:55:00,606 --> 00:55:02,586 And this is what the kids and the families like, 1146 00:55:02,686 --> 00:55:04,666 me come out with my jungle hat. 1147 00:55:04,766 --> 00:55:06,706 And it's kind of a persona that they like. 1148 00:55:06,806 --> 00:55:09,626 There was pictures, his sister showed me 1149 00:55:09,726 --> 00:55:12,826 and my friends of him actually having a jungle hat 1150 00:55:12,926 --> 00:55:15,306 like I was wearing and having a snake. 1151 00:55:15,406 --> 00:55:17,027 Well, these snakes here are people's pets. 1152 00:55:17,127 --> 00:55:18,987 They'd be buying through the Trading Post classified ads, 1153 00:55:19,087 --> 00:55:20,947 through advertisements. What they see on national... 1154 00:55:21,047 --> 00:55:23,147 That's when I learned the "monkey see, monkey do" thing 1155 00:55:23,247 --> 00:55:25,627 really hit me hard. 1156 00:55:25,727 --> 00:55:28,547 With Ted, they said 1157 00:55:28,647 --> 00:55:31,668 his girlfriend and he were in the house, 1158 00:55:31,768 --> 00:55:34,348 and apparently Ted went down and tried to get the snake 1159 00:55:34,448 --> 00:55:36,108 and fell into the snake, into the cage. 1160 00:55:36,208 --> 00:55:37,388 The snake got hold of him. 1161 00:55:37,488 --> 00:55:40,868 It was a 15-foot Burmese Python he had. 1162 00:55:40,968 --> 00:55:44,468 Constricted him and killed him. 1163 00:55:44,568 --> 00:55:46,348 - [Woman] Please, the snake's wrapped around his neck, ma'am. 1164 00:55:46,448 --> 00:55:48,829 Please, he's got blood all over. Oh, my God, please! 1165 00:55:48,929 --> 00:55:50,469 [sirens wailing] 1166 00:55:50,569 --> 00:55:52,569 Please! 1167 00:55:55,929 --> 00:56:00,269 - That changed me a lot when it came to... 1168 00:56:00,369 --> 00:56:03,110 wanting to continue doing like what Jack Hanna 1169 00:56:03,210 --> 00:56:05,110 and the rest of them do, bringing animals out 1170 00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:07,270 and showing them to people. 1171 00:56:07,370 --> 00:56:09,310 I started realizing that maybe 1172 00:56:09,410 --> 00:56:10,590 I'm part of the problem in a sense, 1173 00:56:10,690 --> 00:56:11,990 I'm part of the solution. 1174 00:56:12,090 --> 00:56:14,630 People were not listening. 1175 00:56:14,730 --> 00:56:16,590 I did not want to be that person anymore. 1176 00:56:16,690 --> 00:56:18,190 I didn't want the jungle hat anymore. 1177 00:56:18,290 --> 00:56:20,591 I didn't want to do that stuff anymore. 1178 00:56:20,691 --> 00:56:23,711 These kids are gonna imitate it. The adults are gonna imitate it. 1179 00:56:23,811 --> 00:56:27,671 And that's not the only person I lost that I knew, 1180 00:56:27,771 --> 00:56:29,671 but that was the one that actually looked me in the face 1181 00:56:29,771 --> 00:56:31,771 and call me his hero. 1182 00:56:42,252 --> 00:56:43,512 - [TV Presenter] West, northwest around 1183 00:56:43,612 --> 00:56:45,872 18 miles per hour right now. 1184 00:56:45,972 --> 00:56:48,132 So a little bit breezy... 1185 00:56:56,293 --> 00:56:57,873 [turn signal ticking] - Yeah, we're gonna 1186 00:56:57,973 --> 00:56:59,793 head on down this way. Should be up a few blocks here. 1187 00:56:59,893 --> 00:57:01,893 [knocking on door] On the left. 1188 00:57:04,813 --> 00:57:06,814 I need to go around back and see what happens. 1189 00:57:09,414 --> 00:57:11,514 Hi, any of you guys know Boone Smith? 1190 00:57:11,614 --> 00:57:13,274 - [Man] Yeah, Boone's next door. 1191 00:57:13,374 --> 00:57:14,994 - Well, we've got the right spot. 1192 00:57:15,094 --> 00:57:16,554 This is the town he lives in. 1193 00:57:16,654 --> 00:57:18,514 [knocking on door] 1194 00:57:18,614 --> 00:57:20,114 I hate going to somebody's home, 1195 00:57:20,214 --> 00:57:22,715 I hate having to go to their place of employment. 1196 00:57:22,815 --> 00:57:24,275 This is definitely his house. 1197 00:57:24,375 --> 00:57:26,395 But they're forcing me to do this 1198 00:57:26,495 --> 00:57:29,275 when all they had to do is get on the phone and call. 1199 00:57:29,375 --> 00:57:32,155 Gotta look for a Sierra truck also, too. 1200 00:57:32,255 --> 00:57:35,455 Oh, here we go. Here we go. 1201 00:57:44,496 --> 00:57:45,996 Hey, Boone. - [Boone] Found him. 1202 00:57:46,096 --> 00:57:48,756 - How you doing? Tim Harrison. I'm a retired cop. 1203 00:57:48,856 --> 00:57:50,596 What I'm trying to do is figure out what happens 1204 00:57:50,696 --> 00:57:53,196 to some of these cats that were used as ambassador animals. 1205 00:57:53,296 --> 00:57:55,277 - Okay. - See if you can't help me out. 1206 00:57:55,377 --> 00:57:57,277 You're my last resort, really. - Okay. 1207 00:57:57,377 --> 00:57:59,377 - Do you have any idea what happens to them at all? 1208 00:58:01,457 --> 00:58:03,117 - Your ambassador cats, so it's kind of like one 1209 00:58:03,217 --> 00:58:05,217 of those situations where we're trying to figure out. 1210 00:58:06,977 --> 00:58:09,737 - Think they do end up back in zoos or some place like that? 1211 00:58:14,058 --> 00:58:16,058 - Okay, where you think they come from then? 1212 00:58:16,618 --> 00:58:18,278 - Like facilities. 1213 00:58:18,378 --> 00:58:21,638 Would you think like private owners or something like that? 1214 00:58:21,738 --> 00:58:24,038 Okay, it just makes me aggravated because as we go out 1215 00:58:24,138 --> 00:58:26,799 to try to find these animals, we can't find them. 1216 00:58:26,899 --> 00:58:29,579 That's scary, and to me, Boone, that's not right. 1217 00:58:35,179 --> 00:58:37,439 - Where are they going? If they're not going to an accredited sanctuary, 1218 00:58:37,539 --> 00:58:39,039 where the hell are these cats going? 1219 00:58:39,139 --> 00:58:40,719 When I go over to the tiger projects, 1220 00:58:40,819 --> 00:58:43,360 we know where those tigers are, okay? 1221 00:58:43,460 --> 00:58:45,560 We can't find a tiger that was in your lap 1222 00:58:45,660 --> 00:58:48,880 on a "Good Morning America," or something? 1223 00:58:48,980 --> 00:58:52,220 You know what I'm talking about. You feel my pain, right? 1224 00:58:56,500 --> 00:58:59,041 - All I care about is Jake, 1225 00:58:59,141 --> 00:59:01,521 all I care about is Jingles, all I care about Queen. 1226 00:59:01,621 --> 00:59:04,521 I don't care about what happens to you or anybody else right now. 1227 00:59:04,621 --> 00:59:07,921 All I care about is these cats, you see what I mean? 1228 00:59:08,021 --> 00:59:09,841 Take that with you, but I want you to hold on to it. 1229 00:59:09,941 --> 00:59:12,161 No, you have to keep that because later on you're gonna want 1230 00:59:12,261 --> 00:59:14,162 to know why you didn't call me, you really are. 1231 00:59:14,262 --> 00:59:16,262 No, you really are. 1232 00:59:19,822 --> 00:59:21,822 I need a shower. 1233 00:59:23,342 --> 00:59:25,922 [engine turns over] 1234 00:59:26,022 --> 00:59:29,603 Same garbage, same bull 1235 00:59:29,703 --> 00:59:32,003 that every one of them said, 1236 00:59:32,103 --> 00:59:34,843 same garbage, same bull, same everything. 1237 00:59:34,943 --> 00:59:38,403 [tense music] 1238 00:59:38,503 --> 00:59:40,923 I told him, I said, "These cats are missing." 1239 00:59:41,023 --> 00:59:44,363 And here he is, the number one big cat expert in the world, 1240 00:59:44,463 --> 00:59:46,644 and he, "I don't know, I can't help you." 1241 00:59:46,744 --> 00:59:48,564 - [Boone] You're asking-- - You don't know. 1242 00:59:48,664 --> 00:59:50,204 - You're asking questions. 1243 00:59:50,304 --> 00:59:52,764 - I hand him the folder, and he holds it in his hand, 1244 00:59:52,864 --> 00:59:56,364 doesn't even look at it. He tries to give it back to me. 1245 00:59:56,464 --> 01:00:00,124 - No, you have to keep that... Here's a folder with your cats, 1246 01:00:00,224 --> 01:00:02,365 your ambassador animals are missing. 1247 01:00:02,465 --> 01:00:03,845 And he pushes them back at me 1248 01:00:03,945 --> 01:00:06,685 'cause he does not want that in his hands. 1249 01:00:06,785 --> 01:00:08,125 ...why you didn't call me, you really are. 1250 01:00:08,225 --> 01:00:09,565 No, you really are. 1251 01:00:09,665 --> 01:00:11,445 - Jingles is a Bengal tiger, another one 1252 01:00:11,545 --> 01:00:13,485 of our animal ambassadors. [tiger meows] 1253 01:00:13,585 --> 01:00:15,205 One of the animals that we highlight in this-- 1254 01:00:15,305 --> 01:00:16,565 [tiger yowling] 1255 01:00:16,665 --> 01:00:18,606 - [Savannah] What does that sound mean? 1256 01:00:18,706 --> 01:00:21,366 - Right off the bat, he admitted to it. 1257 01:00:21,466 --> 01:00:23,646 He admitted to what I've been saying for years, 1258 01:00:23,746 --> 01:00:24,966 that these animals are coming 1259 01:00:25,066 --> 01:00:27,526 from private dealers, private people. 1260 01:00:27,626 --> 01:00:29,726 - This is Millie, she's a Bengal tiger. 1261 01:00:29,826 --> 01:00:32,086 - Straight forward, right to my face, 1262 01:00:32,186 --> 01:00:35,047 do they go to zoos? "No." 1263 01:00:35,147 --> 01:00:36,847 Do they go to private people? 1264 01:00:36,947 --> 01:00:38,287 "Yes." 1265 01:00:38,387 --> 01:00:41,647 That's historic, that's absolutely amazing. 1266 01:00:41,747 --> 01:00:44,187 That explains it all. 1267 01:00:45,707 --> 01:00:47,707 - [Boone] I guess I shouldn't say. 1268 01:00:49,788 --> 01:00:52,448 - [Man] As Jake grows up, what's gonna be in store for him? 1269 01:00:52,548 --> 01:00:54,488 - Jake is at a zoo, 1270 01:00:54,588 --> 01:00:57,808 and he's what we call an ambassador animal. 1271 01:00:57,908 --> 01:01:00,848 - Is it true that their skin is actually striped too? 1272 01:01:00,948 --> 01:01:02,168 - Yeah, underneath, yeah. 1273 01:01:02,268 --> 01:01:03,408 The cool thing about their stripes, 1274 01:01:03,508 --> 01:01:06,009 it's like a fingerprint for us. 1275 01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:09,129 It's an individual pattern that is specific to him and identifies him. 1276 01:01:09,229 --> 01:01:10,609 And that's a really cool thing about tigers. 1277 01:01:10,709 --> 01:01:12,889 They can identify him by his stripes. 1278 01:01:12,989 --> 01:01:14,609 - What's unique about the tiger, 1279 01:01:14,709 --> 01:01:16,689 and it's unlike the lions and some of the other cats, 1280 01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:19,769 is that their stripes are just like our fingerprints. 1281 01:01:19,869 --> 01:01:22,170 No two are alike, and they never change. 1282 01:01:22,270 --> 01:01:24,410 So if you have a good photo, or a good video, 1283 01:01:24,510 --> 01:01:26,130 you can actually identify that tiger 1284 01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:28,750 when it's an infant all the way throughout its life. 1285 01:01:31,550 --> 01:01:33,490 So I wanna update you guys on a little progress. 1286 01:01:33,590 --> 01:01:35,370 I think I've got something very interesting 1287 01:01:35,470 --> 01:01:36,971 you guys may wanna see. 1288 01:01:37,071 --> 01:01:41,131 It's utilizing how we can identify the tigers, 1289 01:01:41,231 --> 01:01:42,971 individual tigers by their stripes. 1290 01:01:43,071 --> 01:01:45,491 - We'll put it on right now. - Tee it up. 1291 01:01:45,591 --> 01:01:47,611 - [Jeff] So I started trying to match the stripes 1292 01:01:47,711 --> 01:01:49,771 on the tigers we are looking for 1293 01:01:49,871 --> 01:01:53,132 with stripes on the tigers out there on social media. 1294 01:01:53,232 --> 01:01:55,052 And I came across this post. 1295 01:01:55,152 --> 01:01:57,572 It's a tiger cub being exploited at the same time 1296 01:01:57,672 --> 01:01:59,732 that Boone Smith had a cub. 1297 01:01:59,832 --> 01:02:03,292 And the post refers to the same name, Jake. 1298 01:02:03,392 --> 01:02:04,852 - [Boone] Yeah, this is Jake. 1299 01:02:04,952 --> 01:02:06,852 And he's here to teach us a little bit about 1300 01:02:06,952 --> 01:02:08,373 some of these big cats. 1301 01:02:08,473 --> 01:02:10,733 - Wow. - [Jeff] Now here's the kicker. 1302 01:02:10,833 --> 01:02:14,573 The post is from Cyndi Huntsman in Ohio, 1303 01:02:14,673 --> 01:02:16,693 and the tiger's being used as a mascot 1304 01:02:16,793 --> 01:02:20,413 for a high school football team called the Massillon Tigers. 1305 01:02:20,513 --> 01:02:22,453 - Yeah. I'm from Ohio. 1306 01:02:22,553 --> 01:02:23,974 And the Massillon High School's 1307 01:02:24,074 --> 01:02:26,894 a very well known football dynasty up there. 1308 01:02:26,994 --> 01:02:28,814 And for years, and years, and years, 1309 01:02:28,914 --> 01:02:33,294 they used a tiger cub to promote their Friday night lights. 1310 01:02:33,394 --> 01:02:35,614 So each tiger cub was called Obie. 1311 01:02:35,714 --> 01:02:38,054 So what it is, is that every year, they'd get an Obie, 1312 01:02:38,154 --> 01:02:40,615 sometimes an Obie would die, they'd get another Obie. 1313 01:02:40,715 --> 01:02:42,695 And it's still counted as Obie One, Obie Two, 1314 01:02:42,795 --> 01:02:45,175 Obie Three, Obie Four. And then to be moved on 1315 01:02:45,275 --> 01:02:48,015 after you're no longer used who knows where. 1316 01:02:48,115 --> 01:02:51,015 - [Jeff] Yeah, that's what I'm looking at right here. 1317 01:02:51,115 --> 01:02:53,115 [children chanting "Obie"] 1318 01:02:56,556 --> 01:03:00,136 They, you know, drag him around these huge student gatherings 1319 01:03:00,236 --> 01:03:03,056 in elementary schools with hundreds of kids screaming. 1320 01:03:03,156 --> 01:03:05,416 [kids screaming] 1321 01:03:05,516 --> 01:03:07,016 - This is unbelievable. 1322 01:03:07,116 --> 01:03:08,576 - [Jeff] The tiger actually has physical contact 1323 01:03:08,676 --> 01:03:11,216 with the kids on a couple of occasions. 1324 01:03:11,316 --> 01:03:14,237 [kids screaming] 1325 01:03:17,277 --> 01:03:18,937 - And yet this is a facility where the USDA 1326 01:03:19,037 --> 01:03:22,137 continued to renew this person's license. 1327 01:03:22,237 --> 01:03:24,497 - This is the same place that Jack Hanna gets his cats from, 1328 01:03:24,597 --> 01:03:25,617 The Stump Hill Farm. 1329 01:03:25,717 --> 01:03:27,718 [kids screaming] 1330 01:03:30,758 --> 01:03:33,098 - [Jeff] So here's where it gets really interesting. 1331 01:03:33,198 --> 01:03:35,338 So I went and got some screen captures 1332 01:03:35,438 --> 01:03:38,898 when Boone Smith had Jake on "The Today Show." 1333 01:03:38,998 --> 01:03:41,618 And when I looked at that same time period, 1334 01:03:41,718 --> 01:03:43,739 the Massillon High School tiger mascot was 1335 01:03:43,839 --> 01:03:46,539 Obie number 43. 1336 01:03:46,639 --> 01:03:48,099 And then I lined up those stripes, 1337 01:03:48,199 --> 01:03:50,299 stripes line up exactly. 1338 01:03:50,399 --> 01:03:52,939 So I got a fingerprint 100% match. 1339 01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:56,579 Jake is Obie number 43. 1340 01:03:56,679 --> 01:03:58,859 - Absolutely. Good, good job, good job. 1341 01:03:58,959 --> 01:04:01,940 - Arc over the right eye. - Yeah. 1342 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,740 - [Boone] Everybody that I know we've used in the past, 1343 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,100 they're licensed and legit. 1344 01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,200 Like the time I've been involved... 1345 01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,420 - [Jeff] Just to be clear, this was going on the same time 1346 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:19,781 that Boone Smith was using Jake as an ambassador cat. 1347 01:04:19,881 --> 01:04:21,621 - ...is to let people know that these guys 1348 01:04:21,721 --> 01:04:25,341 are in danger and we need to protect them. 1349 01:04:25,441 --> 01:04:27,101 We wanna do what we can to bring awareness, 1350 01:04:27,201 --> 01:04:29,301 to help people have some knowledge 1351 01:04:29,401 --> 01:04:31,702 that we need to do some things and step in and save these guys 1352 01:04:31,802 --> 01:04:34,582 before they do get in trouble. 1353 01:04:34,682 --> 01:04:37,622 [melancholy music] 1354 01:04:37,722 --> 01:04:41,602 ♪♪ 1355 01:05:00,363 --> 01:05:01,823 - To do this all the time, 1356 01:05:01,923 --> 01:05:04,064 you're talking about a lot of young animals. 1357 01:05:04,164 --> 01:05:05,624 - [Tim] Every year, it's new every year. 1358 01:05:05,724 --> 01:05:06,944 - Every a year, and every show 1359 01:05:07,044 --> 01:05:08,904 you have to have something different. 1360 01:05:09,004 --> 01:05:11,464 Where are all these animals? 1361 01:05:11,564 --> 01:05:14,504 [upbeat music] 1362 01:05:14,604 --> 01:05:19,825 ♪♪ 1363 01:05:19,925 --> 01:05:21,785 [tigers growling] 1364 01:05:21,885 --> 01:05:25,305 These little guys are a little over a year old. 1365 01:05:25,405 --> 01:05:27,025 We got them at the start 1366 01:05:27,125 --> 01:05:29,425 of the picture cub season last year. 1367 01:05:29,525 --> 01:05:33,505 They'll be here for 18 to 20 more years. 1368 01:05:33,605 --> 01:05:35,546 - [Tim] I've known Mary Haven for years. 1369 01:05:35,646 --> 01:05:37,346 She does a great job. 1370 01:05:37,446 --> 01:05:41,266 Her whole mission is to care for other people's mistakes. 1371 01:05:41,366 --> 01:05:42,506 - It's like a puppy mill. 1372 01:05:42,606 --> 01:05:44,266 It's the same thing as a puppy mill, 1373 01:05:44,366 --> 01:05:46,386 only bigger and... 1374 01:05:46,486 --> 01:05:47,426 - [Tim] More dangerous. 1375 01:05:47,526 --> 01:05:48,386 - [Mary] More dangerous, yeah. 1376 01:05:48,486 --> 01:05:50,187 [tiger growling] 1377 01:05:50,287 --> 01:05:52,947 - [Tim] It's a great facility, it's not open to the public. 1378 01:05:53,047 --> 01:05:54,827 Most people don't even know it exists. 1379 01:05:54,927 --> 01:05:56,147 - I don't know where he came from, 1380 01:05:56,247 --> 01:05:57,947 but I do know he went to the circus. 1381 01:05:58,047 --> 01:06:00,427 - [Tim] The circus, okay. It's only a few of us 1382 01:06:00,527 --> 01:06:02,387 big cat people in the rescue business 1383 01:06:02,487 --> 01:06:04,467 that know that she even has a place down there. 1384 01:06:04,567 --> 01:06:07,468 - [Mary] And also, we let all the growth in the cages 1385 01:06:07,568 --> 01:06:09,148 grow up because it's cooler for them, 1386 01:06:09,248 --> 01:06:10,628 and they love to hide in it. 1387 01:06:10,728 --> 01:06:11,748 If we were open to the public, 1388 01:06:11,848 --> 01:06:13,228 that's not gonna be very pleasing 1389 01:06:13,328 --> 01:06:15,548 because they're never gonna see an animal. 1390 01:06:15,648 --> 01:06:17,188 - [Tim] If I had endangered species, 1391 01:06:17,288 --> 01:06:19,548 that I've been using as ambassador animals, 1392 01:06:19,648 --> 01:06:22,429 where would be a perfect place for me to dump these animals? 1393 01:06:22,529 --> 01:06:24,509 - That they will let them come here 1394 01:06:24,609 --> 01:06:27,149 is because I don't name names. It's not that I don't want to... 1395 01:06:27,249 --> 01:06:29,349 - [Tim] It would be hidden in the hills of Tennessee, 1396 01:06:29,449 --> 01:06:32,829 out of sight, out of mind. 1397 01:06:32,929 --> 01:06:35,429 - And how old are these, you said? 1398 01:06:35,529 --> 01:06:37,710 - [Mary] Almost two. 1399 01:06:37,810 --> 01:06:41,790 - Jingles was born in... wait a minute. 1400 01:06:41,890 --> 01:06:45,230 No. 1401 01:06:45,330 --> 01:06:48,750 - [Mary] Come on, buddy, Sven, come here, boy. 1402 01:06:48,850 --> 01:06:50,110 - [Tim] So this is Sven, huh? 1403 01:06:50,210 --> 01:06:51,350 - Come here, come, come. 1404 01:06:51,450 --> 01:06:53,711 [leopard growls] He'll snarl. 1405 01:06:53,811 --> 01:06:55,711 - [Tim] So Sven and Olaf. 1406 01:06:55,811 --> 01:06:58,831 - [Mary] Yeah. 1407 01:06:58,931 --> 01:07:00,351 - [Tim] So you know, I'm just not used to seeing 1408 01:07:00,451 --> 01:07:04,351 a snow leopard in a rescue environment. 1409 01:07:04,451 --> 01:07:07,191 - There are not as many snow leopards in the private market, 1410 01:07:07,291 --> 01:07:09,752 which is where most rescue animals come from. 1411 01:07:09,852 --> 01:07:11,392 [camera clicks] 1412 01:07:11,492 --> 01:07:17,392 So it is more rare for a sanctuary to have them. 1413 01:07:17,492 --> 01:07:19,552 - Where did these guys come from? 1414 01:07:19,652 --> 01:07:21,032 - They came from a facility in Kansas 1415 01:07:21,132 --> 01:07:25,593 that does a lot of breeding of AZA animals. 1416 01:07:25,693 --> 01:07:28,453 And that's where they came from. 1417 01:07:35,573 --> 01:07:39,873 - We have the most adorable snow leopard. 1418 01:07:39,973 --> 01:07:41,794 - [Jack] If they start crying a little bit, 1419 01:07:41,894 --> 01:07:44,114 everyone at home, they're doing fine. 1420 01:07:44,214 --> 01:07:45,834 - Oh, this poor guy is scared. - [Jack] And that fur-- 1421 01:07:45,934 --> 01:07:47,394 you see, George, you feel that fur? 1422 01:07:47,494 --> 01:07:49,554 - Is there a possibility Sven and Olaf 1423 01:07:49,654 --> 01:07:53,234 were potentially used as a cub on TV? 1424 01:07:53,334 --> 01:07:54,594 - No, I don't think they do 1425 01:07:54,694 --> 01:07:56,154 any commercial activities like that. 1426 01:07:56,254 --> 01:07:59,435 They do not do any handling within the zoo. 1427 01:07:59,535 --> 01:08:01,235 And as far as I know, 1428 01:08:01,335 --> 01:08:04,395 I don't know of any of them that go off site with animals, 1429 01:08:04,495 --> 01:08:07,215 or entertainment industries at all. 1430 01:08:11,335 --> 01:08:14,796 If you're gonna be accredited by the AZA, 1431 01:08:14,896 --> 01:08:16,236 there are certain rules and standards 1432 01:08:16,336 --> 01:08:17,996 that have to be followed, 1433 01:08:18,096 --> 01:08:21,796 or you will be eliminated from the accreditation. 1434 01:08:21,896 --> 01:08:23,436 - Six to 12,000, 15,000 feet, 1435 01:08:23,536 --> 01:08:25,276 there's very few left in the world, we don't even know. 1436 01:08:25,376 --> 01:08:27,396 They're beyond critically endangered right now. 1437 01:08:27,496 --> 01:08:29,037 The animals, when they get... 1438 01:08:29,137 --> 01:08:31,597 - This is a snow leopard, so-- [leopard grunting] 1439 01:08:31,697 --> 01:08:32,797 - [Woman] What's he doing that for right now? 1440 01:08:32,897 --> 01:08:34,597 - [Man] He wants down time. 1441 01:08:34,697 --> 01:08:36,757 - I think that you got lied to. 1442 01:08:36,857 --> 01:08:39,877 This is Sven and Olaf on "Good Morning America," 1443 01:08:39,977 --> 01:08:43,117 they haven't hardly had their eyes open yet, all right? 1444 01:08:43,217 --> 01:08:46,518 A VIP party with Jack Hanna. It's quite stunning. 1445 01:08:46,618 --> 01:08:49,038 This is Wrigley Field, 1446 01:08:49,138 --> 01:08:50,398 and they were passing them around, 1447 01:08:50,498 --> 01:08:52,038 so everybody get their pictures taken. 1448 01:08:52,138 --> 01:08:53,918 This is the coach dragging Sven. 1449 01:08:54,018 --> 01:08:56,478 He didn't wanna go, and he was dragging him along. 1450 01:08:56,578 --> 01:08:58,198 Those two little ones that were so small 1451 01:08:58,298 --> 01:09:00,719 their eyes were about-- still almost closed, 1452 01:09:00,819 --> 01:09:04,199 being transferred around from motel to van. 1453 01:09:04,299 --> 01:09:07,479 - It's definitely not good for their health 1454 01:09:07,579 --> 01:09:08,719 to take them when they're that young. 1455 01:09:08,819 --> 01:09:10,999 It's very, very stressful. 1456 01:09:11,099 --> 01:09:16,800 I didn't know they'd been used for, um, encounters. 1457 01:09:16,900 --> 01:09:20,480 That may attribute to 1458 01:09:20,580 --> 01:09:23,640 having lost some of them at early ages. 1459 01:09:23,740 --> 01:09:25,720 The little lion, he was still very young. 1460 01:09:25,820 --> 01:09:29,560 He was like maybe a year and a half at the most. 1461 01:09:29,660 --> 01:09:31,800 There's several, and we really... 1462 01:09:31,900 --> 01:09:33,721 - After our trip to Tiger Haven, 1463 01:09:33,821 --> 01:09:37,041 where we were surprised that they had 1464 01:09:37,141 --> 01:09:39,081 two endangered snow leopards, 1465 01:09:39,181 --> 01:09:44,641 we're talking, and we find out that it wasn't just two. 1466 01:09:44,741 --> 01:09:49,402 That she had had, I don't know, four or five, maybe six. 1467 01:09:49,502 --> 01:09:52,522 - We have gotten several snow leopards. 1468 01:09:52,622 --> 01:09:55,682 - Why are they being sent to a rescue facility anyway? 1469 01:09:55,782 --> 01:09:57,922 They're an endangered specie. 1470 01:09:58,022 --> 01:10:02,282 Not only that, but they're not living long, they're dying. 1471 01:10:02,382 --> 01:10:04,323 - We've lost several snow leopards. 1472 01:10:04,423 --> 01:10:06,563 They are not the healthiest animals in the world. 1473 01:10:06,663 --> 01:10:08,283 - The fortunate part of it 1474 01:10:08,383 --> 01:10:11,123 is that the Species Survival Program 1475 01:10:11,223 --> 01:10:13,883 has studbooks for the snow leopard, 1476 01:10:13,983 --> 01:10:16,083 where each and every snow leopard 1477 01:10:16,183 --> 01:10:19,363 is supposed to be tracked from birth to death. 1478 01:10:19,463 --> 01:10:21,564 [dramatic music] 1479 01:10:21,664 --> 01:10:26,164 There's a pretty common path to Tiger Haven. 1480 01:10:26,264 --> 01:10:29,684 They're coming from a place called Tanganyika, 1481 01:10:29,784 --> 01:10:32,284 which is out in Kansas. 1482 01:10:32,384 --> 01:10:37,045 Tanganyika is a non-AZA facility, 1483 01:10:37,145 --> 01:10:41,605 and they have a pattern of transferring them out. 1484 01:10:41,705 --> 01:10:45,645 The Columbus Zoo is a very common place where they're sent 1485 01:10:45,745 --> 01:10:49,765 as early as days to weeks of their birth. 1486 01:10:49,865 --> 01:10:51,325 - [Sam Champion] So when do the eyes open? 1487 01:10:51,425 --> 01:10:52,686 Because they look like they're just... 1488 01:10:52,786 --> 01:10:55,366 - They're only there for six months. 1489 01:10:55,466 --> 01:10:57,966 They go right back to Tanganyika. 1490 01:10:58,066 --> 01:10:59,566 Then they will go to other places. 1491 01:10:59,666 --> 01:11:02,766 We see what looks like just people's names, 1492 01:11:02,866 --> 01:11:06,446 and one of them we found out is a magician. 1493 01:11:06,546 --> 01:11:10,487 So there's-- there's a lot of concern here. 1494 01:11:10,587 --> 01:11:13,487 As you get into the more recent population, 1495 01:11:13,587 --> 01:11:18,767 we start seeing a lot of "LTF," 1496 01:11:18,867 --> 01:11:20,047 "lost to follow up." 1497 01:11:20,147 --> 01:11:23,127 [keyboard clacking] 1498 01:11:23,227 --> 01:11:26,408 In regard to long-term research studies, 1499 01:11:26,508 --> 01:11:30,088 "lost to follow up" means you lose track of someone. 1500 01:11:30,188 --> 01:11:31,488 So whatever reason, 1501 01:11:31,588 --> 01:11:34,728 sometimes you're going to have an LTF. 1502 01:11:34,828 --> 01:11:37,928 Throughout the first, I mean, over 100 years, 1503 01:11:38,028 --> 01:11:42,609 all of these pages, you see very few "lost to follow up." 1504 01:11:42,709 --> 01:11:46,609 That's the sign of a legitimate program, right? 1505 01:11:46,709 --> 01:11:49,009 And then all of a sudden in these recent years, 1506 01:11:49,109 --> 01:11:52,769 you see Columbus Zoo, Tanganyika, 1507 01:11:52,869 --> 01:11:54,449 and then whatever other place, 1508 01:11:54,549 --> 01:11:57,170 and it immediately lists it as a "lost to follow up." 1509 01:11:57,270 --> 01:12:00,530 [keyboard clacking] 1510 01:12:00,630 --> 01:12:03,770 And just a rough count, I'm somewhere up to 1511 01:12:03,870 --> 01:12:07,610 about 13 or 14 from Tanganyika. 1512 01:12:07,710 --> 01:12:09,730 And that's more than we saw in the first 1513 01:12:09,830 --> 01:12:12,491 at least 90 years of the program. 1514 01:12:12,591 --> 01:12:14,291 - [Jack] Then what we call the Species Survival Plan, 1515 01:12:14,391 --> 01:12:15,851 which means we know where every one of them is located. 1516 01:12:15,951 --> 01:12:17,091 We have chips in these. 1517 01:12:17,191 --> 01:12:19,771 - This is a pattern of dumping. 1518 01:12:19,871 --> 01:12:25,211 It's a way of washing their hands of that snow leopard. 1519 01:12:25,311 --> 01:12:28,292 Nobody's going to follow up after that. 1520 01:12:28,392 --> 01:12:31,492 They assume it's gone. 1521 01:12:31,592 --> 01:12:34,812 - So, nobody even-- the only people that know these animals 1522 01:12:34,912 --> 01:12:37,492 are here is us, pretty much? 1523 01:12:37,592 --> 01:12:39,692 - Pretty much. 1524 01:12:39,792 --> 01:12:41,652 - Species Survival Plan with American Zoo and Aquarium Association, 1525 01:12:41,752 --> 01:12:42,993 which means we know where every one of them is located. 1526 01:12:43,073 --> 01:12:44,573 We have chips in these. 1527 01:12:44,673 --> 01:12:46,453 Again, a snow leopard, what you're holding here, 1528 01:12:46,553 --> 01:12:48,133 there's very few left in the world, we don't even know. 1529 01:12:48,233 --> 01:12:49,853 They're beyond critically endangered right now. 1530 01:12:49,953 --> 01:12:51,933 - [Keith] Right here. - Now how old are these? 1531 01:12:52,033 --> 01:12:53,333 - [Jack] These are about eight weeks. 1532 01:12:53,433 --> 01:12:55,013 - [Sam] Eight weeks old. - Eight weeks old. 1533 01:12:55,113 --> 01:12:56,493 - [Sam] So when do the eyes open? 1534 01:12:56,593 --> 01:12:58,093 'Cause they look like they're just barely 1535 01:12:58,193 --> 01:13:00,654 opening up. 1536 01:13:00,754 --> 01:13:04,814 - The studbook records, these cats are five weeks old. 1537 01:13:04,914 --> 01:13:06,414 And what I don't get is, 1538 01:13:06,514 --> 01:13:08,934 what difference does that make to Jack 1539 01:13:09,034 --> 01:13:11,214 whether they're eight weeks old or five weeks old? 1540 01:13:11,314 --> 01:13:13,214 - I'll tell you exactly what difference it makes. 1541 01:13:13,314 --> 01:13:16,175 It's a difference between violating industry standards 1542 01:13:16,275 --> 01:13:19,415 for public contact with cubs under eight weeks of age, 1543 01:13:19,515 --> 01:13:20,935 and not violating those standards. 1544 01:13:21,035 --> 01:13:22,335 - Wow. 1545 01:13:22,435 --> 01:13:25,255 - It is highly reckless and irresponsible 1546 01:13:25,355 --> 01:13:29,415 to have cats whose immune systems are still compromised, 1547 01:13:29,515 --> 01:13:32,056 passed around on a morning talk show, 1548 01:13:32,156 --> 01:13:35,056 presented as being older than they really are. 1549 01:13:35,156 --> 01:13:36,736 - [Jack] These are about eight weeks. 1550 01:13:36,836 --> 01:13:39,936 - So it is no surprise to me that Hanna is telling 1551 01:13:40,036 --> 01:13:42,336 these hosts that this cat is eight weeks old 1552 01:13:42,436 --> 01:13:44,576 when this cat is not eight weeks old. 1553 01:13:44,676 --> 01:13:46,617 - [Jack] These are about eight weeks. 1554 01:13:46,717 --> 01:13:48,537 Rob and Sam, these are one of the rarest cats in the world, 1555 01:13:48,637 --> 01:13:50,097 live in the Himalayas, 1556 01:13:50,197 --> 01:13:51,417 and these animals live anywhere from 1557 01:13:51,517 --> 01:13:54,097 6,000 to 12,000, 15,000 feet. 1558 01:13:54,197 --> 01:13:55,777 - Looking through these records, 1559 01:13:55,877 --> 01:13:57,337 they are literally being subjected 1560 01:13:57,437 --> 01:13:59,817 to the most detrimental circumstances 1561 01:13:59,917 --> 01:14:01,217 immediately upon birth. 1562 01:14:01,317 --> 01:14:03,398 - Oh, snow leopard. 1563 01:14:07,438 --> 01:14:09,458 - Tearing cats away from their mothers, 1564 01:14:09,558 --> 01:14:11,618 forcing them to appear on television shows 1565 01:14:11,718 --> 01:14:13,718 when they are immunocompromised. 1566 01:14:15,758 --> 01:14:18,699 - All of this is harmful, and we see that 1567 01:14:18,799 --> 01:14:20,219 manifesting in their death. 1568 01:14:20,319 --> 01:14:22,019 - [Jack] These guys are only a few weeks old. 1569 01:14:22,119 --> 01:14:24,979 - [Keith] We know that this is Casper at five weeks old. 1570 01:14:25,079 --> 01:14:28,419 Casper was dead at two years old. 1571 01:14:28,519 --> 01:14:29,619 - This is not working. 1572 01:14:29,719 --> 01:14:31,339 We've got death, death, death. 1573 01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:34,540 Lost to follow up, which means most likely dead too. 1574 01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:38,020 - 21 days or so, send it Columbus, 1575 01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,980 three days later, it's dead at Columbus. 1576 01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:43,700 - This is a snow leopard, one of the rarest cats in the world. 1577 01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,500 This animal lives in Nepal, Tibet, at very high altitudes. 1578 01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:50,061 And they're absolutely one of the most fantastic cats in the entire world. 1579 01:14:50,161 --> 01:14:51,701 - [Woman] So how old is this one? 1580 01:14:51,801 --> 01:14:54,741 - Looking through the annual reports from Tanganyika, 1581 01:14:54,841 --> 01:14:59,341 they list only one death of a snow leopard, 1582 01:14:59,441 --> 01:15:01,701 and that was at age 18. 1583 01:15:01,801 --> 01:15:03,461 - It's a liability on their record. 1584 01:15:03,561 --> 01:15:05,502 They're sandbagging their record, 1585 01:15:05,602 --> 01:15:07,502 and the book shows it perfect. 1586 01:15:07,602 --> 01:15:10,542 Once it gets LTF on here, there's no more record. 1587 01:15:10,642 --> 01:15:11,822 - Wow. 1588 01:15:11,922 --> 01:15:14,462 - This is just extremely troubling. 1589 01:15:14,562 --> 01:15:16,262 - Something's gotta be done. 1590 01:15:16,362 --> 01:15:18,462 I gave him a free pass for a long, long time, 1591 01:15:18,562 --> 01:15:20,622 and I knew something was wrong, 1592 01:15:20,722 --> 01:15:22,343 but I wasn't quite sure. 1593 01:15:22,443 --> 01:15:24,703 And I kinda put a blind eye to it, 1594 01:15:24,803 --> 01:15:26,343 and I did what everybody else did, 1595 01:15:26,443 --> 01:15:27,943 and said, "That's just Jack." 1596 01:15:28,043 --> 01:15:30,943 [dramatic music] 1597 01:15:31,043 --> 01:15:34,923 ♪♪ 1598 01:15:41,404 --> 01:15:46,144 There's times I sit and I think about what's gonna happen. 1599 01:15:46,244 --> 01:15:47,864 [audience laughs] - That's how we did it. 1600 01:15:47,964 --> 01:15:49,784 I said for the first show I brought a hippo... 1601 01:15:49,884 --> 01:15:52,224 - It bothers me that I have to go down 1602 01:15:52,324 --> 01:15:55,545 and go face to face with my, uh-- my hero. 1603 01:15:55,645 --> 01:15:57,785 I'm thinking, man! 1604 01:15:57,885 --> 01:16:00,705 [audience applause] 1605 01:16:00,805 --> 01:16:03,845 And I think about what's gonna be the effect of this. 1606 01:16:06,765 --> 01:16:09,626 There's a part of me that doesn't want to expose him. 1607 01:16:09,726 --> 01:16:11,786 There's a part of me that wants to leave him as the Jack 1608 01:16:11,886 --> 01:16:13,426 that I knew when I was a kid. 1609 01:16:13,526 --> 01:16:15,766 - Hey, everybody. 1610 01:16:20,726 --> 01:16:22,146 - And then there's a part of me that sits there, 1611 01:16:22,246 --> 01:16:24,747 and I think about all those endangered species 1612 01:16:24,847 --> 01:16:28,167 sitting on his lap, I see their faces. 1613 01:16:31,207 --> 01:16:32,507 [audience applause] - Thank you so much. 1614 01:16:32,607 --> 01:16:34,227 - I can't step back and allow this 1615 01:16:34,327 --> 01:16:38,747 to continue happening because they don't have a voice. 1616 01:16:38,847 --> 01:16:40,848 [crowd muttering] 1617 01:16:44,128 --> 01:16:45,708 I approach him, and I ask him for help, 1618 01:16:45,808 --> 01:16:47,068 and I show him the faces. 1619 01:16:47,168 --> 01:16:49,068 It's gonna be totally in his ballpark, 1620 01:16:49,168 --> 01:16:51,708 because what his reaction is, 1621 01:16:51,808 --> 01:16:53,968 is how this investigation is gonna continue. 1622 01:16:57,129 --> 01:16:58,869 Hey, Jack. - [Jack] How you doing? 1623 01:16:58,969 --> 01:17:01,349 - [Tim] How you doing, man? I just wanna stop and say hi. 1624 01:17:01,449 --> 01:17:03,549 I wanted to talk to you too. - [Jack] No problem. 1625 01:17:03,649 --> 01:17:05,709 - But the problem is, is that we've been doing a little investigation. 1626 01:17:05,809 --> 01:17:07,189 We're trying to find out what happens 1627 01:17:07,289 --> 01:17:08,949 to the ambassador cats after they're done with. 1628 01:17:09,049 --> 01:17:10,629 - Right, right. - And what we've done is that-- 1629 01:17:10,729 --> 01:17:12,790 - Here's Suzi Rapp. - Hey, how you doing? 1630 01:17:12,890 --> 01:17:14,550 You probably don't remember, Tim Harrison. 1631 01:17:14,650 --> 01:17:16,950 - Suzi Rapp's been with me since I was 39 years at the zoo. 1632 01:17:17,050 --> 01:17:18,670 - Yeah. - She now is called by everybody 1633 01:17:18,770 --> 01:17:20,430 in the country when it comes to cheetahs or any cat. 1634 01:17:20,530 --> 01:17:22,310 - [Suzi] I'm on the Animal Welfare Committee. 1635 01:17:22,410 --> 01:17:23,870 - [Tim] I know exactly who you are. 1636 01:17:23,970 --> 01:17:25,710 It's very impressive. I was telling Jack, 1637 01:17:25,810 --> 01:17:27,670 we're in the process of doing an investigation 1638 01:17:27,770 --> 01:17:30,631 on what happens to the ambassador cats. 1639 01:17:30,731 --> 01:17:32,711 Once they're done with on the circuit, 1640 01:17:32,811 --> 01:17:34,791 where do they go? 'Cause we have like 200 of them, 1641 01:17:34,891 --> 01:17:37,111 and I narrowed it down to 25. 1642 01:17:37,211 --> 01:17:39,831 Yeah, it goes back, and it goes all the way through here too. 1643 01:17:39,931 --> 01:17:41,671 You can see the different cats. - [Suzi] Yeah, yeah. 1644 01:17:41,771 --> 01:17:43,551 - [Jack] These animals here, you know about the Wilds, right? 1645 01:17:43,651 --> 01:17:45,632 - [Tim] Oh, yeah, beautiful place. 1646 01:17:45,732 --> 01:17:47,832 - [Jack] 10,000 acres. - [Tim] So these cats are at the Wilds? 1647 01:17:47,932 --> 01:17:49,912 - [Jack] Well, no, we have them there, but let's say the Wilds, 1648 01:17:50,012 --> 01:17:52,472 Suzi Rapp, that's up to her. She runs the show. 1649 01:17:52,572 --> 01:17:54,232 - [Tim] Oh, okay. - [Jack] Let's say somebody had to bring an animal 1650 01:17:54,332 --> 01:17:55,632 out there, and they want to have some there, 1651 01:17:55,732 --> 01:17:56,672 obviously they'll go to the Wilds. 1652 01:17:56,772 --> 01:17:58,872 But these cats, like I said, 1653 01:17:58,972 --> 01:18:01,193 they're like incredible where they go... 1654 01:18:01,293 --> 01:18:03,293 - [Tim] They're the ambassador cats. 1655 01:18:12,013 --> 01:18:13,713 And also I just wanna verify something. 1656 01:18:13,813 --> 01:18:15,874 I was just back from Senator Portman's office, 1657 01:18:15,974 --> 01:18:18,194 and he told me, and I was shocked, 1658 01:18:18,294 --> 01:18:20,474 because I'm pushing for the Big Cat Public Safety Act, 1659 01:18:20,574 --> 01:18:22,434 I'm pushing for it, and he told me, 1660 01:18:22,534 --> 01:18:23,914 he said, "No, I'm not going to do it. 1661 01:18:24,014 --> 01:18:25,354 "'Cause Jack Hanna doesn't wanna do it, 1662 01:18:25,454 --> 01:18:27,114 and the Columbus Zoo doesn't want to do it." 1663 01:18:27,214 --> 01:18:28,434 That's why I'm here to ask. - [Suzi] Can I tell you why? 1664 01:18:28,534 --> 01:18:29,794 - [Tim] Yeah. Okay, I wanna hear. 1665 01:18:29,894 --> 01:18:31,554 - [Suzi] Because you're gonna shut down... 1666 01:18:31,654 --> 01:18:33,075 - [Tim] I'm not shutting down anything, 1667 01:18:33,175 --> 01:18:34,375 I'm just looking for the law enforcement part. 1668 01:18:34,455 --> 01:18:36,195 - [Suzi] ...by supporting that law, 1669 01:18:36,295 --> 01:18:38,795 because that law shuts us down. - [Tim] Oh, it shuts you down? 1670 01:18:38,895 --> 01:18:41,195 - [Suzi] Just to let you know, it shuts me down. 1671 01:18:41,295 --> 01:18:45,515 If we remove the animals from connecting people with them, 1672 01:18:45,615 --> 01:18:48,636 they will not participate. 1673 01:18:48,736 --> 01:18:50,636 I'm all about laws, 1674 01:18:50,736 --> 01:18:52,276 and I'm all about regulation as long... 1675 01:18:52,376 --> 01:18:54,116 - [Tim] I don't want this little guy hearing it. 1676 01:18:54,216 --> 01:18:55,956 - [Man] How's it going? - [Jack] Nice to see you. 1677 01:18:56,056 --> 01:18:57,956 - [Man] You all right? Can we get a picture with you? 1678 01:18:58,056 --> 01:18:59,996 - [Tim] I'll let you go, but I appreciate it. 1679 01:19:00,096 --> 01:19:01,676 We're trying to find out, okay? 1680 01:19:01,776 --> 01:19:04,917 We're just trying to find out. - [Man] Say cheese, Ry. 1681 01:19:05,017 --> 01:19:07,477 - [Tim] I'll let you guys go. - [Man] Cheese. 1682 01:19:07,577 --> 01:19:09,597 Thank you, sir. - [Jack] Trust me, 1683 01:19:09,697 --> 01:19:12,077 if she knew of somebody doing this stuff, like the bad stuff, 1684 01:19:12,177 --> 01:19:13,437 she'll be calling you overnight. 1685 01:19:13,537 --> 01:19:14,957 - [Tim] Okay, hang on to my card. 1686 01:19:15,057 --> 01:19:16,757 - [Suzi] I'm on the Animal Welfare Committee. 1687 01:19:16,857 --> 01:19:19,518 - [Jack] You've got a card? - Yeah, she's got got my card. 1688 01:19:19,618 --> 01:19:21,798 I'll let you guys go. I loved it, Jack. 1689 01:19:21,898 --> 01:19:23,898 Stay safe. 1690 01:19:28,458 --> 01:19:31,198 - [Jack] We always use the country, these animals here, 1691 01:19:31,298 --> 01:19:33,758 you know about the Wilds, right? 10,000 acres. 1692 01:19:33,858 --> 01:19:35,359 - [Tim] So these cats are at the Wilds? 1693 01:19:35,459 --> 01:19:37,319 - [Jack] No, we have them there, but say the Wilds, 1694 01:19:37,419 --> 01:19:39,079 Suzi Rapp, that's up to her. - [Tim] Oh, okay. 1695 01:19:39,179 --> 01:19:40,419 - [Jack] Say somebody has to bring an animal out there 1696 01:19:40,499 --> 01:19:41,679 and they want to have something there, 1697 01:19:41,779 --> 01:19:43,679 obviously they'll go to the Wilds. 1698 01:19:43,779 --> 01:19:45,639 - [Tim] Okay. - [Jack] But these cats, incredible where they go. 1699 01:19:45,739 --> 01:19:47,239 - [Tim] They're the ambassador cats. 1700 01:19:47,339 --> 01:19:50,239 [melancholy music] 1701 01:19:50,339 --> 01:19:54,260 ♪♪ 1702 01:20:01,380 --> 01:20:03,760 [camera clicks] 1703 01:20:03,860 --> 01:20:05,860 [tiger growling] 1704 01:20:48,583 --> 01:20:51,043 - To this day, and I'm thinking in my mind, 1705 01:20:51,143 --> 01:20:52,443 why am I doing this? 1706 01:20:52,543 --> 01:20:54,924 'Cause it's not-- I've lost-- 1707 01:20:55,024 --> 01:20:58,524 I've lost everything with these people. 1708 01:20:58,624 --> 01:21:01,484 These are the people I looked up to. 1709 01:21:01,584 --> 01:21:03,944 I looked up to Jack Hanna when I was a young man. 1710 01:21:07,304 --> 01:21:08,804 It's one of those things, am I doing any good? 1711 01:21:08,904 --> 01:21:11,645 But I think I am, by exposing, 1712 01:21:11,745 --> 01:21:14,325 but is anybody gonna be out there to step up 1713 01:21:14,425 --> 01:21:16,725 and back us up? 1714 01:21:16,825 --> 01:21:18,485 Is there gonna be anybody that's gonna come out 1715 01:21:18,585 --> 01:21:21,685 of the conservation world of these people 1716 01:21:21,785 --> 01:21:26,526 and say, "Tim, I'm with you, brother, this ain't right"? 1717 01:21:26,626 --> 01:21:28,326 And so far we ain't got it. 1718 01:21:28,426 --> 01:21:30,206 And, uh... 1719 01:21:30,306 --> 01:21:37,886 ♪♪ 1720 01:21:37,986 --> 01:21:40,926 [indistinct announcements on PA] 1721 01:21:41,026 --> 01:21:46,907 ♪♪ 1722 01:21:50,867 --> 01:21:53,567 - [Carney Anne] Hey, Tim, it's Carney Anne. 1723 01:21:53,667 --> 01:21:57,928 Let me just preempt this by saying it's not good news. 1724 01:21:58,028 --> 01:22:01,848 I just received back a response relating to my request 1725 01:22:01,948 --> 01:22:04,048 for records about that roadside zoo 1726 01:22:04,148 --> 01:22:06,368 connected to Jack Hanna. 1727 01:22:06,468 --> 01:22:07,848 The response that I received from 1728 01:22:07,948 --> 01:22:09,728 US Fish and Wildlife Service, 1729 01:22:09,828 --> 01:22:13,849 it says that they can neither confirm nor deny 1730 01:22:13,949 --> 01:22:16,929 if any such records exist. 1731 01:22:17,029 --> 01:22:20,329 So I just-- this is gonna be a dead end. 1732 01:22:20,429 --> 01:22:23,129 It would take years to litigate this. 1733 01:22:23,229 --> 01:22:25,609 [sirens wailing] 1734 01:22:25,709 --> 01:22:27,089 - [Howard] Hey, Tim. It's Howard Baskin. 1735 01:22:27,189 --> 01:22:28,609 Listen, last time we talked, 1736 01:22:28,709 --> 01:22:30,450 it sounded like you were right on track 1737 01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:33,170 to get these other Ohio zoos to send letters 1738 01:22:33,270 --> 01:22:35,330 to Senator Portman's office. 1739 01:22:35,430 --> 01:22:38,850 And, you know, our folks in DC just came from the office, 1740 01:22:38,950 --> 01:22:42,690 and they have not received not a single one 1741 01:22:42,790 --> 01:22:44,130 from any of these zoos. 1742 01:22:44,230 --> 01:22:45,851 I don't know what's happened, 1743 01:22:45,951 --> 01:22:48,331 I don't know if the Columbus Zoo 1744 01:22:48,431 --> 01:22:50,211 or Jack's got to these zoos, 1745 01:22:50,311 --> 01:22:52,531 and applied some kind of pressure, or what. 1746 01:22:52,631 --> 01:22:56,051 So, you know, we haven't received anything. 1747 01:22:56,151 --> 01:22:58,971 I don't know where things stand, so could you give me a call 1748 01:22:59,071 --> 01:23:00,491 and let me know where things are? 1749 01:23:00,591 --> 01:23:01,932 - [Jack] We're trying to stop a lot of that. 1750 01:23:02,032 --> 01:23:03,772 And the animal also probably, I would say, 1751 01:23:03,872 --> 01:23:05,332 are in quite numbers, 1752 01:23:05,432 --> 01:23:07,012 not like a lot of cats throughout the world. 1753 01:23:07,112 --> 01:23:08,972 We have some issues with the hunting for jungles. 1754 01:23:09,072 --> 01:23:11,052 It's very difficult to even find these cats, everybody. 1755 01:23:11,152 --> 01:23:12,972 [TV clicks off] 1756 01:23:13,072 --> 01:23:15,072 [dog barking] 1757 01:23:22,273 --> 01:23:23,933 [phone buzzing] 1758 01:23:24,033 --> 01:23:26,813 - My phone's exploding. We got all kinds of texts. 1759 01:23:26,913 --> 01:23:28,133 Said I gotta get in contact with him, 1760 01:23:28,233 --> 01:23:31,093 something about Joe, Joe Exotic. 1761 01:23:31,193 --> 01:23:32,653 I've gotta pull over somewhere here, 1762 01:23:32,753 --> 01:23:34,734 drive down here, and see if I can 1763 01:23:34,834 --> 01:23:37,254 get out of the traffic a little bit here. 1764 01:23:37,354 --> 01:23:38,654 Hey, Rus, what's going on here? 1765 01:23:38,754 --> 01:23:42,574 I'm gonna put you on speaker real quick here. 1766 01:23:42,674 --> 01:23:43,974 All right, man, what's going on? 1767 01:23:44,074 --> 01:23:47,174 - [Rus] Are you near a-- are you near a computer? 1768 01:23:47,274 --> 01:23:49,735 - No, no, I'm out on the road right now. 1769 01:23:49,835 --> 01:23:52,415 - [Rus] They've got the news, breaking news, 1770 01:23:52,515 --> 01:23:54,775 that Crazy Joe got indicted. 1771 01:23:54,875 --> 01:23:56,855 - What was the indictment, do you have any idea what the indictment is? 1772 01:23:56,955 --> 01:23:59,695 - [Rus] Well, it was something about a federal charge 1773 01:23:59,795 --> 01:24:02,695 where the FBI was looking at him for... 1774 01:24:02,795 --> 01:24:04,655 it was like murder for hire. 1775 01:24:04,755 --> 01:24:07,336 - Oh, my gosh. It was a murder hire for who? 1776 01:24:07,436 --> 01:24:09,696 There's numerous people he's threatened. 1777 01:24:09,796 --> 01:24:11,456 - [Rus] Well, in Florida. - Oh, Florida. 1778 01:24:11,556 --> 01:24:12,856 - [Rus] Maybe he got friends in Florida, 1779 01:24:12,956 --> 01:24:14,376 because they said it was out of Florida. 1780 01:24:14,476 --> 01:24:15,936 - Ohh. - And you know... 1781 01:24:16,036 --> 01:24:18,416 - That could only be one person down there or two. 1782 01:24:18,516 --> 01:24:21,617 - [Rus] Yeah, or two. - Wow. 1783 01:24:21,717 --> 01:24:23,137 - [Rus] So, they're not naming the person. 1784 01:24:23,237 --> 01:24:26,497 In the indictment, it said Jane Doe. 1785 01:24:26,597 --> 01:24:29,217 - The US Attorney's office is leading the investigation. 1786 01:24:29,317 --> 01:24:31,057 Joe Exotic is known for his connection 1787 01:24:31,157 --> 01:24:34,217 to the Greater Wynnewood Exotic Animal Park, 1788 01:24:34,317 --> 01:24:36,658 though today he was arrested in Florida, 1789 01:24:36,758 --> 01:24:38,698 the same state as his alleged indictment. 1790 01:24:38,798 --> 01:24:40,298 - [Man] Federal indictment conceals the identity 1791 01:24:40,398 --> 01:24:43,698 of the woman, referring to her only as Jane Doe. 1792 01:24:43,798 --> 01:24:45,378 The murder plot was apparently foiled 1793 01:24:45,478 --> 01:24:48,858 when federal agents moved in to arrest Joe after he... 1794 01:24:48,958 --> 01:24:50,578 - It's gotta be Carole Baskin 1795 01:24:50,678 --> 01:24:52,699 down at Big Cat Rescue, Tampa, Florida, 1796 01:24:52,799 --> 01:24:54,099 with her husband, Howard. 1797 01:24:54,199 --> 01:24:56,219 It's gotta be her, because Joe Exotic 1798 01:24:56,319 --> 01:24:59,499 has been out to get her over the years. 1799 01:24:59,599 --> 01:25:01,019 She's right on the front line. 1800 01:25:01,119 --> 01:25:02,659 She's also one of the architects 1801 01:25:02,759 --> 01:25:05,099 of the Big Cat Public Safety Act, 1802 01:25:05,199 --> 01:25:07,859 which is just getting ready to go to a subcommittee hearing 1803 01:25:07,959 --> 01:25:09,060 for the House of Representatives. 1804 01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:10,740 What a coincidence! 1805 01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:13,220 It's a situation where somebody is trying to shut her up. 1806 01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:19,100 - Carole Baskin better never ever see me face to face. 1807 01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:23,380 - Joe Exotic has said many times that he's gonna take out-- 1808 01:25:23,480 --> 01:25:25,781 he actually on one of his TV shows, 1809 01:25:25,881 --> 01:25:30,081 he'd actually showed himself shooting an effigy of Carole. 1810 01:25:32,161 --> 01:25:34,301 He said, "What I'm gonna do to her, I'm gonna cap her ass." 1811 01:25:34,401 --> 01:25:36,661 Pow! [gun bangs] 1812 01:25:36,761 --> 01:25:40,262 - That is how sick and tired of this shit I am. 1813 01:25:40,362 --> 01:25:42,182 - I gotta call her, I gotta find out, 1814 01:25:42,282 --> 01:25:46,182 I gotta hear her voice, and find out from her how she's doing. 1815 01:25:46,282 --> 01:25:47,622 Is there anything we need to do? 1816 01:25:47,722 --> 01:25:49,382 'Cause Carole's the bravest person I know. 1817 01:25:49,482 --> 01:25:50,702 - [Carole] Big Cat Rescue. 1818 01:25:50,802 --> 01:25:52,662 - Hey, Carole, this is Tim Harrison. 1819 01:25:52,762 --> 01:25:53,862 I need to ask you a question. 1820 01:25:53,962 --> 01:25:56,703 My phone just exploded up here. 1821 01:25:56,803 --> 01:25:59,743 I've just found out about this indictment. 1822 01:25:59,843 --> 01:26:02,943 Are you Jane Doe? - [Carole] Yes. 1823 01:26:03,043 --> 01:26:04,143 - Wow. 1824 01:26:04,243 --> 01:26:06,663 - We got a call from the FBI saying 1825 01:26:06,763 --> 01:26:09,303 that my life was in imminent danger. 1826 01:26:09,403 --> 01:26:14,264 Joe had hired a guy to come to Florida and kill me. 1827 01:26:14,364 --> 01:26:18,024 And they were able to put an undercover FBI agent in place 1828 01:26:18,124 --> 01:26:20,704 for Joe to then hire so that they could keep track of him. 1829 01:26:20,804 --> 01:26:22,344 - Wow. 1830 01:26:22,444 --> 01:26:24,264 - [Woman] The US Attorney's Office alleges that Exotic 1831 01:26:24,364 --> 01:26:26,824 openly discussed his plot to kill, 1832 01:26:26,924 --> 01:26:30,105 eventually hiring a person to carry out the murder. 1833 01:26:30,205 --> 01:26:33,545 That person was an undercover FBI agent. 1834 01:26:33,645 --> 01:26:35,785 - [Carole] Yeah, I'm really glad that they've got him in jail, 1835 01:26:35,885 --> 01:26:39,185 but I tell you what, he's just the dumbest one of them. 1836 01:26:39,285 --> 01:26:41,825 There's a lot of really bad people out there 1837 01:26:41,925 --> 01:26:44,866 that are a whole lot more dangerous to those of us 1838 01:26:44,966 --> 01:26:47,226 who are working to protect these cats. 1839 01:26:47,326 --> 01:26:50,346 - I'll tell you what, Carole, is there anything you need from us? 1840 01:26:50,446 --> 01:26:52,026 - [Carole] I couldn't live with myself 1841 01:26:52,126 --> 01:26:54,706 if I allowed bullies like him 1842 01:26:54,806 --> 01:26:57,746 to stop us from protecting these big cats. 1843 01:26:57,846 --> 01:26:59,947 So just keep doing what you're doing. 1844 01:27:00,047 --> 01:27:02,947 [intense music] 1845 01:27:03,047 --> 01:27:05,427 ♪♪ 1846 01:27:05,527 --> 01:27:07,527 [people shouting] 1847 01:27:10,967 --> 01:27:12,907 [helicopter blades whirring] 1848 01:27:13,007 --> 01:27:18,748 ♪♪ 1849 01:27:18,848 --> 01:27:21,628 [fireworks banging] 1850 01:27:21,728 --> 01:27:23,948 [people cheering] 1851 01:27:24,048 --> 01:27:26,908 - We've come here up to Massillon High School. 1852 01:27:27,008 --> 01:27:29,788 This is where the infamous Obies are. 1853 01:27:29,888 --> 01:27:32,589 For the last 45 years or so, they bring a tiger cub here 1854 01:27:32,689 --> 01:27:34,689 for them to use as their mascot. 1855 01:27:40,129 --> 01:27:42,789 - We're going to talk about Olive in just a minute, but Dave... 1856 01:27:42,889 --> 01:27:46,109 - [Tim] For the last three weeks on a couple different TV shows... 1857 01:27:46,209 --> 01:27:47,790 - Aww! - All right. 1858 01:27:47,890 --> 01:27:49,790 - ...they've been using a tiger by the name of Olive. 1859 01:27:49,890 --> 01:27:51,590 - Here with his friend Olive, 1860 01:27:51,690 --> 01:27:54,870 Animal Planet's big cat expert, Dave Salmoni. 1861 01:27:54,970 --> 01:27:56,390 - We're gonna try to see if they're gonna bring 1862 01:27:56,490 --> 01:27:57,710 a tiger cub out here. 1863 01:27:57,810 --> 01:27:58,830 And we're gonna see if it's Olive. 1864 01:27:58,930 --> 01:27:59,950 We personally came up here, 1865 01:28:00,050 --> 01:28:01,630 'cause I wanna find out. 1866 01:28:01,730 --> 01:28:05,611 ♪♪ 1867 01:28:11,291 --> 01:28:14,031 [cheering and applause] 1868 01:28:14,131 --> 01:28:17,871 [indistinct chatter on PA] 1869 01:28:17,971 --> 01:28:19,552 Here she comes, guys. 1870 01:28:19,652 --> 01:28:21,792 [audience cheering] 1871 01:28:21,892 --> 01:28:23,952 [air horn blowing] 1872 01:28:24,052 --> 01:28:26,932 [audience gasping] 1873 01:28:38,493 --> 01:28:40,733 Absolutely barbaric. 1874 01:28:44,413 --> 01:28:46,353 The same tiger cub 1875 01:28:46,453 --> 01:28:49,393 that was used on all those shows by animal experts, 1876 01:28:49,493 --> 01:28:52,154 bang, here it is, Olive's here. 1877 01:28:52,254 --> 01:28:53,514 And who's with it? 1878 01:28:53,614 --> 01:28:55,614 Grant Kemmerer. 1879 01:29:01,494 --> 01:29:03,354 It's just disgusting. 1880 01:29:03,454 --> 01:29:05,994 It just makes me want to just push through those people, 1881 01:29:06,094 --> 01:29:08,595 get that tiger cub, and just rescue it. 1882 01:29:08,695 --> 01:29:11,775 And take it to a sanctuary where it needs to be taken to. 1883 01:29:14,655 --> 01:29:16,795 And, you know, we can't do that 'cause it's not illegal. 1884 01:29:16,895 --> 01:29:18,895 It's not illegal. 1885 01:29:25,056 --> 01:29:27,596 You know, we're in a hostile environment already. 1886 01:29:27,696 --> 01:29:29,076 We've got some of their supporters over here 1887 01:29:29,176 --> 01:29:30,756 listening to what I'm saying. 1888 01:29:30,856 --> 01:29:34,436 Everybody's texting, you can see them watching us. 1889 01:29:34,536 --> 01:29:37,396 People are giving me the evil eye, staring me down. 1890 01:29:37,496 --> 01:29:39,497 The word's out. 1891 01:29:45,017 --> 01:29:47,157 You know, it's no different than going to 1892 01:29:47,257 --> 01:29:49,437 the dangerous wild exotic animal auctions. 1893 01:29:49,537 --> 01:29:51,277 They don't want you filming anything 1894 01:29:51,377 --> 01:29:53,998 because they don't want anybody to know what's going on. 1895 01:29:54,098 --> 01:29:56,098 It's like this-- this secret. 1896 01:29:58,818 --> 01:30:00,718 It's the same, same feeling here, 1897 01:30:00,818 --> 01:30:02,838 what happened to us at the auction. 1898 01:30:02,938 --> 01:30:05,118 And getting the evil eye as we're speaking right now. 1899 01:30:05,218 --> 01:30:06,758 They're making the phone calls. 1900 01:30:06,858 --> 01:30:09,719 [tense music] 1901 01:30:09,819 --> 01:30:12,519 - Who you with, bud? 1902 01:30:12,619 --> 01:30:14,679 Hey, this gentleman needs to move on. 1903 01:30:14,779 --> 01:30:16,159 - Sir, please move along. 1904 01:30:16,259 --> 01:30:17,719 - [Tim] We've got some of their supporters 1905 01:30:17,819 --> 01:30:18,899 over here right now, some of the boosters, 1906 01:30:18,979 --> 01:30:20,479 listening to what I'm saying. 1907 01:30:20,579 --> 01:30:22,079 - Move on, sir, that's what I'm asking you to do. 1908 01:30:22,179 --> 01:30:23,959 - You know, trying to kick us out, throw us out. 1909 01:30:24,059 --> 01:30:26,060 It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. 1910 01:30:35,700 --> 01:30:38,240 He actually understands that we're there. 1911 01:30:38,340 --> 01:30:40,520 We're just a few steps behind him right now. 1912 01:30:40,620 --> 01:30:42,621 He's feeling that breath on the back of his neck. 1913 01:30:46,021 --> 01:30:48,841 The footsteps are coming, times are changing, 1914 01:30:48,941 --> 01:30:50,201 and he knows it. 1915 01:30:50,301 --> 01:30:53,361 - Go! Now! 1916 01:30:53,461 --> 01:30:55,461 You, go! 1917 01:30:57,942 --> 01:31:01,042 - [Tim] After all these years, and all the Obies they've had, 1918 01:31:01,142 --> 01:31:02,602 nobody can tell us what happens to them 1919 01:31:02,702 --> 01:31:03,842 after they're done with them. 1920 01:31:03,942 --> 01:31:04,882 - [Man] You have to go. 1921 01:31:04,982 --> 01:31:06,042 - [Tim] They just vanish. 1922 01:31:06,142 --> 01:31:08,522 - [Man] Why are you filming? 1923 01:31:08,622 --> 01:31:11,702 - And now little Olive is Obie 47. 1924 01:31:14,463 --> 01:31:16,203 We need to try to rescue Olive, 1925 01:31:16,303 --> 01:31:19,003 and get her out of that cycle. 1926 01:31:19,103 --> 01:31:20,683 Thing is, is I can't do it. 1927 01:31:20,783 --> 01:31:23,323 'Cause we've already exposed ourselves. 1928 01:31:23,423 --> 01:31:24,723 I'm gonna need an inside man. 1929 01:31:24,823 --> 01:31:26,683 I'm gonna need somebody that's in that world 1930 01:31:26,783 --> 01:31:29,404 to be able to reach in and get Olive, 1931 01:31:29,504 --> 01:31:31,964 and rescue her from that. And that's what I need. 1932 01:31:32,064 --> 01:31:33,564 And I think... 1933 01:31:33,664 --> 01:31:37,444 I think I might have the person that can do that. 1934 01:31:37,544 --> 01:31:39,544 [leaves crunching] 1935 01:31:50,905 --> 01:31:52,845 - [Cy] Good morning, Grant, my name is Cy. 1936 01:31:52,945 --> 01:31:54,805 I have Union Ridge Wildlife Center 1937 01:31:54,905 --> 01:31:57,045 incorporated here in Southeastern Ohio. 1938 01:31:57,145 --> 01:32:00,285 Here, Liz. 1939 01:32:00,385 --> 01:32:02,366 My tigers enjoy an incredible open facility, 1940 01:32:02,466 --> 01:32:04,926 16 feet high with 4-foot cantilever 1941 01:32:05,026 --> 01:32:07,926 with climbing platforms that step to 12-foot high. 1942 01:32:08,026 --> 01:32:09,246 [keyboard clacking] 1943 01:32:09,346 --> 01:32:11,086 I'm looking to replace a young tiger 1944 01:32:11,186 --> 01:32:12,806 we had to euthanise earlier last year 1945 01:32:12,906 --> 01:32:15,606 after suffering from a brain tumour. 1946 01:32:15,706 --> 01:32:18,247 Ultimately I'm looking for a young female 1947 01:32:18,347 --> 01:32:20,687 between six months and a year of age, 1948 01:32:20,787 --> 01:32:22,447 and I would be happy 1949 01:32:22,547 --> 01:32:26,487 to share any photos of my facilities, et cetera. 1950 01:32:26,587 --> 01:32:28,827 Many thanks in advance, Cy. 1951 01:32:39,788 --> 01:32:41,788 [keyboard clacking] 1952 01:32:54,309 --> 01:32:55,849 It's become quite frustrating 1953 01:32:55,949 --> 01:32:57,729 because some of the conversations we've had, 1954 01:32:57,829 --> 01:33:02,569 Grant keeps-- keeps moving forward with other topics 1955 01:33:02,669 --> 01:33:05,050 whenever I bring up any thought 1956 01:33:05,150 --> 01:33:09,850 of placing one of his cats. 1957 01:33:09,950 --> 01:33:14,330 We've talked about pelicans, beavers, 1958 01:33:14,430 --> 01:33:16,790 otters, lions... 1959 01:33:19,990 --> 01:33:21,891 ...squirrel monkeys. 1960 01:33:21,991 --> 01:33:25,531 Hasn't ever replied about any, uh, tiger. 1961 01:33:25,631 --> 01:33:27,451 Did go as far as saying 1962 01:33:27,551 --> 01:33:31,891 I'd give my left arm for the last year's Obie. 1963 01:33:31,991 --> 01:33:34,091 Nothing. 1964 01:33:34,191 --> 01:33:37,052 No mention of the tigers. 1965 01:33:37,152 --> 01:33:39,852 So we're just gonna have to go to Grant's house 1966 01:33:39,952 --> 01:33:43,732 and see what he has. 1967 01:33:43,832 --> 01:33:46,732 [tense music] 1968 01:33:46,832 --> 01:33:49,772 ♪♪ 1969 01:33:49,872 --> 01:33:51,652 Okay, so I just sent Grant a text, that says, 1970 01:33:51,752 --> 01:33:55,573 "Hi, Grant, I had told you about an Arctic great horned owl. 1971 01:33:55,673 --> 01:33:59,093 Think you might like to use him in your programs." 1972 01:33:59,193 --> 01:34:02,613 He got back right away, "Wow, very nice, congrats. 1973 01:34:02,713 --> 01:34:04,713 I'll take one." 1974 01:34:17,794 --> 01:34:20,714 [phone line trilling] 1975 01:34:24,875 --> 01:34:27,775 - [Tim] Hey, how you doing? - Good. 1976 01:34:27,875 --> 01:34:31,455 So I just got done with my afternoon with Grant 1977 01:34:31,555 --> 01:34:33,215 over at his house. 1978 01:34:33,315 --> 01:34:35,335 - [Tim] Did you find anything about Olive? 1979 01:34:35,435 --> 01:34:36,935 - No. 1980 01:34:37,035 --> 01:34:38,295 - [Tim] Did you have free range on the property? 1981 01:34:38,395 --> 01:34:41,056 - No, Olive is not there, 1982 01:34:41,156 --> 01:34:46,296 and there weren't any-- there weren't any young tigers. 1983 01:34:46,396 --> 01:34:49,696 - Wow, Olive should be there, should be with him, 1984 01:34:49,796 --> 01:34:51,576 because he was the last one seen with her. 1985 01:34:51,676 --> 01:34:53,976 - No, it's... it's not. 1986 01:34:54,076 --> 01:34:56,097 - [Tim] That's what I was worried about. 1987 01:34:56,197 --> 01:34:58,217 If we didn't get that cat and intercept her, 1988 01:34:58,317 --> 01:34:59,817 it's gonna be dead. 1989 01:34:59,917 --> 01:35:02,137 So we have no idea where she's at. 1990 01:35:02,237 --> 01:35:03,977 - Correct. 1991 01:35:04,077 --> 01:35:06,497 - [Tim] That means we've gotta problem. 1992 01:35:06,597 --> 01:35:10,577 Did he have 15 or 16 big cats around there? 1993 01:35:10,677 --> 01:35:13,978 Because he told me he had 15 or 16 big cats 1994 01:35:14,078 --> 01:35:17,338 that stay there, they're at his location. 1995 01:35:17,438 --> 01:35:20,298 - There's only three tigers and one lion. 1996 01:35:20,398 --> 01:35:21,778 - [Tim] Wow. 1997 01:35:21,878 --> 01:35:23,858 So he's moved a lot of animals out of there. 1998 01:35:23,958 --> 01:35:25,778 - Correct. 1999 01:35:25,878 --> 01:35:27,299 - [Tim] He told me a lie then. 2000 01:35:27,399 --> 01:35:29,379 Because he said straightforward, 2001 01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:30,819 "They come here, and they stay here. 2002 01:35:30,919 --> 01:35:32,459 "They don't go anywhere else. 2003 01:35:32,559 --> 01:35:34,139 That's the way it works." 2004 01:35:34,239 --> 01:35:36,219 - No. 2005 01:35:36,319 --> 01:35:38,259 - They're nocturnal. They're a solitary cat... 2006 01:35:38,359 --> 01:35:40,939 - They're found in... 2007 01:35:41,039 --> 01:35:43,820 - So how much are they just like a house cat? 2008 01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:46,340 [lion cub growls] [audience laughs] 2009 01:35:46,440 --> 01:35:47,780 - [Jack] Here you go. Thank you very much. 2010 01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:49,880 - [Letterman] Thank you very much. 2011 01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:55,060 - His story is, to me, conflicted. 2012 01:35:55,160 --> 01:36:00,101 He told me too many stories, and he didn't even realise it. 2013 01:36:00,201 --> 01:36:03,521 I'm just starting to, you know, match the things up. 2014 01:36:05,521 --> 01:36:07,501 [camera clicks] 2015 01:36:07,601 --> 01:36:09,901 - [Tim] You get a photo? - I didn't, but my kid did. 2016 01:36:10,001 --> 01:36:13,701 My kid got photos of all-- of all three cats. 2017 01:36:13,801 --> 01:36:15,342 - [Tim] Excellent. 2018 01:36:15,442 --> 01:36:16,942 - But he had to be conspicuous about that, 2019 01:36:17,042 --> 01:36:19,742 because that was the only part of the property 2020 01:36:19,842 --> 01:36:23,622 that he had us turn away from. - [Tim] Wow. 2021 01:36:23,722 --> 01:36:25,902 Now there's something really suspicious going on there. 2022 01:36:26,002 --> 01:36:27,342 [lighter clicks] 2023 01:36:27,442 --> 01:36:29,182 - What if he had tiger cubs there today, 2024 01:36:29,282 --> 01:36:32,263 and that's why we couldn't walk over there? 2025 01:36:32,363 --> 01:36:38,263 He made a few oops this afternoon with his stories. 2026 01:36:38,363 --> 01:36:42,983 He didn't keep his stories straight. 2027 01:36:43,083 --> 01:36:45,223 Reflecting upon the visit, 2028 01:36:45,323 --> 01:36:49,864 when you look at everything, the cages, 2029 01:36:49,964 --> 01:36:54,744 the types of animals that are there... 2030 01:36:54,844 --> 01:36:57,084 a lot of things don't really add up. 2031 01:37:01,204 --> 01:37:04,085 [lion growling] 2032 01:37:13,805 --> 01:37:15,805 [people laughing, chatting] 2033 01:37:27,326 --> 01:37:28,546 - Something of interest here. 2034 01:37:28,646 --> 01:37:30,066 Something that just came about 2035 01:37:30,166 --> 01:37:32,426 within the last couple of weeks. 2036 01:37:32,526 --> 01:37:36,107 Grant Kemmerer and Wild World of Animals 2037 01:37:36,207 --> 01:37:39,467 have been cited for five different violations 2038 01:37:39,567 --> 01:37:44,227 in, uh-- in the State of New York. 2039 01:37:44,327 --> 01:37:48,107 He's allowed several people at private parties 2040 01:37:48,207 --> 01:37:51,788 at a residence to come into contact with big cats, 2041 01:37:51,888 --> 01:37:57,068 which is a clear violation of the law of New York. 2042 01:37:57,168 --> 01:37:58,908 - This is Wyatt, 2043 01:37:59,008 --> 01:38:01,388 this is a cat that's been used as an ambassador animal. 2044 01:38:01,488 --> 01:38:03,228 And here it is at a private party in New York. 2045 01:38:03,328 --> 01:38:05,028 - There you go. - Wow! 2046 01:38:05,128 --> 01:38:06,369 - Get interactive. - You know what this is for real? 2047 01:38:06,449 --> 01:38:08,309 This is such an honour and a privilege. 2048 01:38:08,409 --> 01:38:10,029 - Of course it is. - To just be around this majestic animal. 2049 01:38:10,129 --> 01:38:12,229 - "Caused or allowed direct contact 2050 01:38:12,329 --> 01:38:14,469 with a juvenile tiger." 2051 01:38:14,569 --> 01:38:16,709 - [Tim] Let's go the next here. Ah, look at this at this family portrait. 2052 01:38:16,809 --> 01:38:19,709 Oh, my gosh. 2053 01:38:19,809 --> 01:38:22,630 - "Caused or allowed direct contact with a lion." 2054 01:38:22,730 --> 01:38:24,790 - [Tim] Oh, my gosh. - Wow. 2055 01:38:24,890 --> 01:38:26,910 - And another juvenile tiger. 2056 01:38:27,010 --> 01:38:28,830 - [Man on video] What's up? 2057 01:38:28,930 --> 01:38:33,790 - In contact with people during a party at a private home. 2058 01:38:33,890 --> 01:38:36,350 What's that got to do with conservation? 2059 01:38:36,450 --> 01:38:39,831 - [Grant shouting] - What's he doing? 2060 01:38:39,931 --> 01:38:42,551 Shoving him around, grabbing him, dragging him. 2061 01:38:42,651 --> 01:38:44,431 What are they doing now? They're teasing him. 2062 01:38:44,531 --> 01:38:48,791 Oh, they're hitting him. Look at him, whack! 2063 01:38:48,891 --> 01:38:52,031 - Look at how, like, he's swatting his face. 2064 01:38:52,131 --> 01:38:54,752 [tiger groans] - Oh, my gosh. 2065 01:38:54,852 --> 01:38:58,712 - [Man on video] It's okay. 2066 01:38:58,812 --> 01:39:00,792 - These are the same cats that he was on TV with 2067 01:39:00,892 --> 01:39:02,752 saying these aren't pets. 2068 01:39:02,852 --> 01:39:04,312 - [Grant] That's why they're just not a pet. 2069 01:39:04,412 --> 01:39:06,112 It's never gonna be a pet. 2070 01:39:06,212 --> 01:39:07,872 - And he takes them out the very next weekend or so, 2071 01:39:07,972 --> 01:39:10,913 whenever this happened, takes them in a basket, 2072 01:39:11,013 --> 01:39:12,793 like you would take puppies or kittens, 2073 01:39:12,893 --> 01:39:14,193 to a birthday party. 2074 01:39:14,293 --> 01:39:16,433 [keyboard clacking] 2075 01:39:16,533 --> 01:39:19,753 - And look at all this too. "New pet?" 2076 01:39:19,853 --> 01:39:22,153 Look, "I want one." - [Tim] "I want one." 2077 01:39:22,253 --> 01:39:25,294 "Hanging with the baby tiger and the family." 2078 01:39:28,974 --> 01:39:31,474 This is the two faces of conservation right here. 2079 01:39:31,574 --> 01:39:33,754 Wyatt's on TV being used as an ambassador animal, 2080 01:39:33,854 --> 01:39:35,514 "Oh, you've gotta respect these animals." 2081 01:39:35,614 --> 01:39:37,234 - [Jarod] This is Wyatt right here, he's a Bengal tiger. 2082 01:39:37,334 --> 01:39:39,674 - And then this right here. [tiger growls] 2083 01:39:39,774 --> 01:39:42,235 - [Woman on video] No! - [Man on video] It's okay. 2084 01:39:42,335 --> 01:39:45,235 [sinister music] 2085 01:39:45,335 --> 01:39:49,115 ♪♪ 2086 01:39:49,215 --> 01:39:51,555 - If you take the tiger that Jack had 2087 01:39:51,655 --> 01:39:53,315 on "Good Morning America," 2088 01:39:53,415 --> 01:39:57,796 and you line it up next to the tiger who was in a backyard, 2089 01:39:57,896 --> 01:40:00,716 put those side by side, 2090 01:40:00,816 --> 01:40:03,796 look at the stripes, they match up perfectly. 2091 01:40:03,896 --> 01:40:05,676 That's a 100% match. 2092 01:40:05,776 --> 01:40:09,556 This is Gus, this is the tiger we've been looking for. 2093 01:40:09,656 --> 01:40:11,996 - [Jack] This is a Siberian tiger. And all these tigers, 2094 01:40:12,096 --> 01:40:14,317 the American Zoological and Aquarium Association, 2095 01:40:14,417 --> 01:40:16,637 they're in the SSP program. Now these animals... 2096 01:40:16,737 --> 01:40:21,477 - The alleged SSP tiger that Suzi Rapp 2097 01:40:21,577 --> 01:40:23,677 of the AZA's Animal Welfare Committee 2098 01:40:23,777 --> 01:40:26,717 has on the end of a leash on a national TV show, 2099 01:40:26,817 --> 01:40:29,478 for a small backyard party in New York. 2100 01:40:29,578 --> 01:40:31,638 - Wow. - [Tim] That is enough right there 2101 01:40:31,738 --> 01:40:34,018 to blow the lid off of all this. 2102 01:40:41,218 --> 01:40:42,478 - [Carney Anne] Tim, it's Carney Anne, 2103 01:40:42,578 --> 01:40:43,878 you're not even gonna believe this. 2104 01:40:43,978 --> 01:40:45,599 I just got those records from New York 2105 01:40:45,699 --> 01:40:49,999 related to this illegal exhibitions and public contact. 2106 01:40:50,099 --> 01:40:54,759 So Mr. Kemmerer's attorney has picked three people 2107 01:40:54,859 --> 01:40:57,879 to solicit letters of reference. 2108 01:40:57,979 --> 01:41:01,880 And the letter I've got right here on top is 2109 01:41:01,980 --> 01:41:04,680 from Suzi Rapp, Vice President of Animal Programs 2110 01:41:04,780 --> 01:41:06,600 at the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium. 2111 01:41:06,700 --> 01:41:08,640 - Oh, my God! 2112 01:41:08,740 --> 01:41:11,840 - [Carney Anne] "We found Kemmerer to be highly competent, 2113 01:41:11,940 --> 01:41:14,920 "very knowledgeable and experienced. 2114 01:41:15,020 --> 01:41:17,881 "And for this reason we consistently used them 2115 01:41:17,981 --> 01:41:19,441 and their animals for programs." 2116 01:41:19,541 --> 01:41:21,121 - Wow! 2117 01:41:21,221 --> 01:41:23,921 - [Carney Anne] And according to Suzi Rapp, she, 2118 01:41:24,021 --> 01:41:27,281 and I quote, "Would consider Wild World of Animals 2119 01:41:27,381 --> 01:41:30,921 to be at top-notch institution." 2120 01:41:31,021 --> 01:41:34,522 So that's the Columbus Zoo... - Wow! 2121 01:41:34,622 --> 01:41:36,202 - ...coming to the defense of their boy 2122 01:41:36,302 --> 01:41:40,562 in a letter he included to the State of New York 2123 01:41:40,662 --> 01:41:43,162 begging them not to revoke his license. 2124 01:41:43,262 --> 01:41:46,482 [lion growling] 2125 01:41:46,582 --> 01:41:48,723 - I've been saying for years that the Columbus Zoo, 2126 01:41:48,823 --> 01:41:52,243 Jack Hanna, they have to have that private breeding. 2127 01:41:52,343 --> 01:41:55,003 If the Big Cat Public Safety Act was passed, 2128 01:41:55,103 --> 01:41:56,803 straight from their words from their mouth, 2129 01:41:56,903 --> 01:41:58,803 "We can no longer do our business." 2130 01:41:58,903 --> 01:42:01,483 That's why they need these backyard breeders. 2131 01:42:01,583 --> 01:42:03,043 The genie is out of the bottle, 2132 01:42:03,143 --> 01:42:05,264 and there's no way they could put it back in. 2133 01:42:25,665 --> 01:42:28,205 - Well, there's nothing more rewarding than 2134 01:42:28,305 --> 01:42:30,845 working or volunteering in the animal offer world, 2135 01:42:30,945 --> 01:42:32,645 but it doesn't come without risk. 2136 01:42:32,745 --> 01:42:35,926 I've been personally threatened physically with my life. 2137 01:42:36,026 --> 01:42:38,366 I've been threatened with litigation. 2138 01:42:38,466 --> 01:42:42,886 I've been just slandered online, via social media and other ways. 2139 01:42:42,986 --> 01:42:45,566 At one point we were directed by our attorneys 2140 01:42:45,666 --> 01:42:48,126 to check underneath our car every day before we started it, 2141 01:42:48,226 --> 01:42:50,006 for fear of our life that we were, 2142 01:42:50,106 --> 01:42:54,727 you know, in risk of physical harm. 2143 01:42:54,827 --> 01:42:56,287 That's their only means of stopping you 2144 01:42:56,387 --> 01:42:57,767 from exposing them. 2145 01:42:57,867 --> 01:43:00,267 And they'll stop at nothing. 2146 01:43:05,987 --> 01:43:07,488 - [Woman] A dramatic day begins 2147 01:43:07,588 --> 01:43:09,768 as big cat owner, Joe Maldonado-Passage, 2148 01:43:09,868 --> 01:43:11,648 better known as Joe Exotic, 2149 01:43:11,748 --> 01:43:14,408 will face Carole Baskin in federal court. 2150 01:43:14,508 --> 01:43:17,128 According to the FBI, the murder plot was foiled 2151 01:43:17,228 --> 01:43:19,128 when undercover agents intervened. 2152 01:43:19,228 --> 01:43:22,688 Joe also faces 17 federal counts of animal abuse. 2153 01:43:22,788 --> 01:43:24,289 - [Man] Oklahoma is one of several states 2154 01:43:24,389 --> 01:43:27,249 that allows private ownership and unregulated breeding 2155 01:43:27,349 --> 01:43:28,849 of big cats. 2156 01:43:28,949 --> 01:43:31,409 States like Nevada, North Carolina, Wisconsin... 2157 01:43:31,509 --> 01:43:33,169 - [Woman] The big cat battle rages on today 2158 01:43:33,269 --> 01:43:35,609 in the United States on the same day 2159 01:43:35,709 --> 01:43:37,089 that Joe Exotic's criminal trial 2160 01:43:37,189 --> 01:43:39,610 reaches a fever pitch in Oklahoma. 2161 01:43:39,710 --> 01:43:41,890 Big cat advocates here in Washington DC 2162 01:43:41,990 --> 01:43:43,850 will testify before Congress 2163 01:43:43,950 --> 01:43:46,850 in an effort to put an end to private ownership. 2164 01:43:46,950 --> 01:43:49,810 - The Big Cat Public Safety Act was first introduced last month. 2165 01:43:49,910 --> 01:43:51,970 This is the first time though it's been discussed 2166 01:43:52,070 --> 01:43:53,650 in a hearing on Capitol Hill. 2167 01:43:53,750 --> 01:43:55,451 First responders tell me they hope 2168 01:43:55,551 --> 01:43:57,531 this isn't the last time. 2169 01:43:57,631 --> 01:44:00,611 Do we know where all the tigers are in the United States, 2170 01:44:00,711 --> 01:44:02,771 or the lions, or any of these big cats? 2171 01:44:02,871 --> 01:44:04,531 - We don't know, we can't follow it. 2172 01:44:04,631 --> 01:44:05,771 There's so many backyard breeders, 2173 01:44:05,871 --> 01:44:07,531 and that's what this law's about, 2174 01:44:07,631 --> 01:44:09,971 stopping the backyard breeders, making it so the law enforcement 2175 01:44:10,071 --> 01:44:12,852 can do something about it, can step in and stop this. 2176 01:44:12,952 --> 01:44:14,452 - The Big Cat Public Safety Act 2177 01:44:14,552 --> 01:44:16,332 would end the ownership of big cats 2178 01:44:16,432 --> 01:44:18,332 as exotic pets, and prohibit exhibitors 2179 01:44:18,432 --> 01:44:21,212 from allowing the public to have contact with them, 2180 01:44:21,312 --> 01:44:24,812 keeping these majestic animals and the public safe. 2181 01:44:24,912 --> 01:44:26,533 Well, we all love these iconic species. 2182 01:44:26,633 --> 01:44:28,933 It's important to remember that they're wild animals, 2183 01:44:29,033 --> 01:44:30,213 and they shouldn't be kept as pets, 2184 01:44:30,313 --> 01:44:32,533 or treated like petting zoo animals. 2185 01:44:32,633 --> 01:44:35,013 - These dangerous animals are often kept in small spaces 2186 01:44:35,113 --> 01:44:37,733 that are entirely inconsistent with their needs. 2187 01:44:37,833 --> 01:44:39,613 And rescue operations have demonstrated 2188 01:44:39,713 --> 01:44:43,534 the extreme abuse enabled by the pet big cat trade. 2189 01:44:43,634 --> 01:44:45,414 - With this Big Cat Public Safety Act, 2190 01:44:45,514 --> 01:44:46,854 I never thought I'd ever see it 2191 01:44:46,954 --> 01:44:49,334 where it's actually going to be voted on, 2192 01:44:49,434 --> 01:44:50,854 and it could be through the House. 2193 01:44:50,954 --> 01:44:52,974 If it gets through the House, it's amazing. 2194 01:44:53,074 --> 01:44:55,014 - Congressmen, this committee in particular 2195 01:44:55,114 --> 01:44:56,774 must continue to work towards 2196 01:44:56,874 --> 01:44:58,895 protecting wildlife at home and abroad, 2197 01:44:58,995 --> 01:45:01,535 if we hope to preserve biodiversity 2198 01:45:01,635 --> 01:45:03,415 for future generations. 2199 01:45:03,515 --> 01:45:06,935 In particular, I'd like to thank... 2200 01:45:07,035 --> 01:45:11,055 - This really I thought would never happen in my lifetime. 2201 01:45:11,155 --> 01:45:13,175 And with this happening has a lot to do 2202 01:45:13,275 --> 01:45:14,856 with all the organizations out there, 2203 01:45:14,956 --> 01:45:17,536 has to do with all the people that just love big cats, 2204 01:45:17,636 --> 01:45:19,976 and the people that actually paid attention. 2205 01:45:20,076 --> 01:45:22,016 And right now we have an opportunity 2206 01:45:22,116 --> 01:45:24,416 to stop all this madness. 2207 01:45:24,516 --> 01:45:25,936 And it is... 2208 01:45:26,036 --> 01:45:28,036 it's the greatest feeling in the world. 2209 01:45:33,477 --> 01:45:35,177 - Other animal welfare organizations, 2210 01:45:35,277 --> 01:45:38,177 because lions and tigers do not belong 2211 01:45:38,277 --> 01:45:40,777 in urban apartments, or in cages, 2212 01:45:40,877 --> 01:45:42,097 and suburban backyards. 2213 01:45:42,197 --> 01:45:44,617 - As the member designated of Nevada, 2214 01:45:44,717 --> 01:45:47,498 I inform the House that Miss Titus will vote yes 2215 01:45:47,598 --> 01:45:49,458 on HR1380. 2216 01:45:49,558 --> 01:45:52,858 - Miss Kaptur of Ohio who will vote aye on HR1380. 2217 01:45:52,958 --> 01:45:55,738 - Mr. Patrick will vote yes on HR1380. 2218 01:45:55,838 --> 01:45:58,498 - I inform the house that Ms. Pingree will vote yes 2219 01:45:58,598 --> 01:46:00,218 on HR1380. 2220 01:46:00,318 --> 01:46:03,739 - I have never met an animal welfare advocate, 2221 01:46:03,839 --> 01:46:06,419 myself included, that has stopped. 2222 01:46:06,519 --> 01:46:10,739 - 965, I inform the House that Mr. Price will vote yes. 2223 01:46:10,839 --> 01:46:14,739 He will vote yes on HR1380. 2224 01:46:14,839 --> 01:46:16,979 - And I consider it a privilege 2225 01:46:17,079 --> 01:46:19,840 to be able to take on the challenge and not turn back. 2226 01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:32,620 - Best decision that we've ever made. 2227 01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:34,901 And something I couldn't be more proud of, 2228 01:46:35,001 --> 01:46:38,981 and I'll continue to do it till the day I die. 2229 01:46:39,081 --> 01:46:41,861 [dramatic music] 2230 01:46:41,961 --> 01:46:43,861 - Breaking news just in to NBC4, 2231 01:46:43,961 --> 01:46:46,061 Jack Hanna is announcing his retirement 2232 01:46:46,161 --> 01:46:47,621 from the Columbus Zoo. 2233 01:46:47,721 --> 01:46:50,102 This will be effective at the end of the year. 2234 01:46:50,202 --> 01:46:51,782 - Are you shocked by this at all, Colleen? 2235 01:46:51,882 --> 01:46:54,982 - I was because he's had that status for so long, 2236 01:46:55,082 --> 01:46:57,102 and they say it's just time. 2237 01:46:57,202 --> 01:47:00,662 - Who else is going to do the animal segments now? 2238 01:47:00,762 --> 01:47:02,502 - Now we're getting to the point, 2239 01:47:02,602 --> 01:47:04,622 that the new generation coming along right now, 2240 01:47:04,722 --> 01:47:06,263 and the next generation after that, 2241 01:47:06,363 --> 01:47:10,783 I have high hopes, high hopes that this is gonna stop. 2242 01:47:10,883 --> 01:47:13,943 And to me, that makes me feel like, 2243 01:47:14,043 --> 01:47:15,983 you know, everything we did, 2244 01:47:16,083 --> 01:47:18,763 it's all been worth it to watch this new generation. 2245 01:47:21,084 --> 01:47:23,464 - [Robert Irwin] Hey, guys, so these are leopard cubs. 2246 01:47:23,564 --> 01:47:24,824 - [Jimmy] These are leopards? 2247 01:47:24,924 --> 01:47:26,304 - So these are little baby leopards. 2248 01:47:26,404 --> 01:47:28,484 Aren't they amazing? [audience laughs] 2249 01:47:30,924 --> 01:47:32,904 They're so cute, aren't they? 2250 01:47:33,004 --> 01:47:36,024 [indistinct chatter on TV] 2251 01:47:36,124 --> 01:47:37,625 There you go. 2252 01:47:37,725 --> 01:47:40,665 [sinister music] 2253 01:47:40,765 --> 01:47:44,645 ♪♪ 2254 01:47:47,605 --> 01:47:50,505 [dramatic music] 2255 01:47:50,605 --> 01:47:54,146 ♪♪ 2256 01:47:54,246 --> 01:47:56,306 - [Woman] Today, from Santa Barbara, California, 2257 01:47:56,406 --> 01:47:58,906 a bombshell new film launches its world premier 2258 01:47:59,006 --> 01:48:02,666 to a sold-out crowd of moviegoers and reporters. 2259 01:48:02,766 --> 01:48:05,226 The film sheds light on a previously unknown 2260 01:48:05,326 --> 01:48:08,006 dark corner of the big cat... 2261 01:48:14,407 --> 01:48:16,947 - [George] The family of the director emeritus of the Columbus Zoo 2262 01:48:17,047 --> 01:48:18,987 has revealed that he's been diagnosed with dementia, 2263 01:48:19,087 --> 01:48:21,667 and will no longer take part in public life. 2264 01:48:21,767 --> 01:48:24,348 - [Woman] Jack Hanna is said to be taking his final public bow, 2265 01:48:24,448 --> 01:48:26,848 after four decades of... 2266 01:48:34,288 --> 01:48:36,868 - [Woman] The Columbus Zoo releases a statement today 2267 01:48:36,968 --> 01:48:39,068 expressing that now, under the new leadership 2268 01:48:39,168 --> 01:48:41,829 of Jerry Borin, they are publicly supporting 2269 01:48:41,929 --> 01:48:44,229 the Big Cat Public Safety Act. 2270 01:48:44,329 --> 01:48:46,389 Congress is expected to cast a final vote 2271 01:48:46,489 --> 01:48:48,549 on the federal bill later this year. 2272 01:48:48,649 --> 01:48:50,789 The statement comes directly on the heels 2273 01:48:50,889 --> 01:48:52,889 of Jack Hanna's announcement... 2274 01:48:55,169 --> 01:48:57,270 - [Woman] Joe is serving 22 years inside 2275 01:48:57,370 --> 01:48:59,630 the Federal Medical Center in Fort Worth, Texas, 2276 01:48:59,730 --> 01:49:03,970 for wildlife violations and a plot to kill Carole Baskin. 2277 01:49:08,370 --> 01:49:10,270 - [Man] And now, in his first prison interview, 2278 01:49:10,370 --> 01:49:13,831 Joe says he's counting on Carole to get him out. 2279 01:49:13,931 --> 01:49:15,391 - [Joe] To get a pardon, 2280 01:49:15,491 --> 01:49:17,851 I would support the Big Cat Safety Act. 2281 01:49:21,051 --> 01:49:26,931 ♪♪