WEBVTT FILE

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[man I actually had
this conversation
once with my grandma, heh.

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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she's 89 years old,
and I had to explain to her,
what's a pedal board.

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I tried to explain to her
that basically electric guitar

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was never engineered to sound
different from acoustic guitars.

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It was only engineered
to sound louder.

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All the different flavors
that we get from guitars

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has historically evolved
through these things
called effect pedals.

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This external device
is like the go between
the guitar and the amp.

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And it's normal to have
six to ten little boxes like,
all neatly packed into a system.

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It's just more colors
for the guitar,

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and sometimes that changes
the type of music you play,

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and sometimes that's just gets
in the way of playing music.

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[dramatic music playing]

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[music fades]

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[mellow music playing]

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I think ever since musical
instruments were first used,

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they have been an extension of
people's power of expression.

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And they have always used
the technology available
in the times,

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whether it was a...
a piece of bone or a log,
or something,

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or electronic or complicated
string instruments.

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[Andrew] You have to go back
all the way to the beginning,

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even in classical music
where there was no electronics,

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but they wanted to modify
the sound of the instrument.

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So to me, the first pedal was
the pedal on the piano

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that you made it to sustain
so you could hit like a chord,
you hold the pedal down.

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So, it's like a
mechanical device,

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that is, modifies the sound
and give you more expression.

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Well, the history of effects,
I mean, people have always
wanted to alter their sound.

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I mean,
if you look at the way keyboard
instruments evolved,

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I mean, people looked upon
the... the piano forte

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as this incredibly weird thing
the same way,
people look at samplers

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when they first came out
or something, you know,
you had clavichords,

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and you had some Balos,
and... and all these different
instruments.

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And then people started
making modifications to those.

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[Andrew] And even on trumpets,
they have that mute
that is like a little cap.

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So, when you did this,
wa, wa, wa,

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you can hear that
like an old jazz recordings,

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but they wanted to
modify the sound,

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give another expression today
[inaudible].

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So finally,
when the electronics arrived

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then you could plug in
your guitar

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then immediately people
start to think about, yeah,

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how can I take it
to the next level?

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[Mike]    With electronics,
there was a period of...

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growth and diversification
of using effects.

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And then there was
the increasing notion
that effects are instruments.

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[reel whirring]

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[clicks]

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The history of pedals starts in
1931 with the electric guitar.

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Without an electric guitar
you don't need pedals.

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They started making
modifications to
the guitar itself.

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They added pickups.
They had amps.

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[Albini] Things like,
tone controls, and equalizers,

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compressors and limiters,
those were also developed fairly
early in the electronic era.

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You could consider those special
effects, but I consider those
more corrective devices.

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I suppose, perhaps,
the first special effect
would be reverb or echo

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because when you play in a room,
you hear the ambient effect.

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I suppose that would qualify
as a special effect, but
that's an acoustic phenomenon.

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["Peg O' My Heart" by Jerry
Murad's Harmonicats playing]

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There were a lot
of accidental effects as well.

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A piece of equipment
would be working incorrectly.

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There'd be like a...
a bad junction, uh,
on the vacuum tubes.

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The vacuum tube
would instead of behaving
like an amplifier

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would behave like
a diode and you'd get a...
a fuzzing effect.

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It's somebody using something
where they stumble
across some sound

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and find sort of a musical
use for it, you know,

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where it's sort of
a broken speaker or
sort of turning the tone knob,

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you know, to create
sort of a moving filter.

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[upbeat music playing]

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And then ultimately coming up
with some mechanical device

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that would turn
that tone knob for you.

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The earliest guitar effect
is the DeArmond Tremolo.

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It has a motor in it,
really safe contraption

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when you combine electricity
with fluid moving
around inside of it.

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We used a little cylinder
of an electrolyte fluid

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and shook it back and forth
to make and break a connection,
to make a tremolo sound.

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["You Can't Do That To
Me" by Roosevelt Sykes
playing]

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♪ You can't do that to me ♪

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I think there's a lot
of the history of effects
that won't be known

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because so much of it
was people throwing things
together, uh, for their own rig.

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[Josh] You get people inventing
practical use of echo
like Les Paul.

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People shredding guitar speakers
like the old blues guys,

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or people just playing through
broken old gear and getting
some gnarly overdrive sounds.

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Especially the Delta blues,
the black musical culture,

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they were the first
like Chicago blues.

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These people turn their amps up.

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["Rock Awhile" by Goree Carter
playing]

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[Adrian] In the 1950s,
music tastes started to shift.

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There was a new type of music
on the block called
rock 'n' roll.

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It was given birth
to from blues and jazz
that had gone before it.

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Artists such as Link Wray were
doing things like cranking their
amplifiers to induce distortion,

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slashing their speaker cones,
putting holes in them

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to create a really ratty,
nasty type of distortion.

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["Rumble" by
Link Wray & His Ray Men playing]

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[Josh]    Link Wray "Rumble",

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they banned it from
a radio station
because it might ensue riots.

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I always say no one
had ever heard Slipknot then.

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You know, it's like,
such a weird thing
to get our head into.

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[Adrian] It was events in the
1950s that started to move us
towards different sounds

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and experimentation in music
that created the necessity
for effects pedals.

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And when you reach 1960,

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you have this epitome
of the broken guitar
with the Marty Robbins record.

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♪ Don't worry about me ♪

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[Josh] Marty Robbins is tracking
a song in Nashville
called "Don't Worry".

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The bass player
has a 6-string Dan electro bass

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plugged directly
into a brand new mixing desk
that the studio got.

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And unknowing to them,
there are faulty transformers
in that desk,

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and it kind of explodes on them.

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There's a little bit
of a discussion/argument
over keep it or don't keep it.

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Ultimately, though,
Marty Robbins likes it.

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The engineer at the time
is a guy named Glenn Snoddy.
He likes it.

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And it caused the sound of fuzz,
tone and sound.

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["Don't Worry"
by Marty Robbins playing]

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People were calling
in to find out what it was.

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They couldn't understand,
what the sound was.

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[Josh] If you have a sound
that your friend doesn't have,
he wants that sound.

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That begins to happen
in Nashville.

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People hear that song.
"What's the sound?"

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Well, we had a artist,
Nancy Sinatra,

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that called and wanted to come
in and make a record.

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When she got there,
we had to tell her

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that the console
that was causing the sound,

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the amplifier quit,
and we couldn't do it anymore.

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And they didn't like
that at all.

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[laughs]

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I told Harold Bradley
that I'd have to see

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if I could make one
and get it going.

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[Robert] He called my dad
and they said,

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"Now, Revis, I think,
if we could come up
with that sound

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then maybe we could make
some money with it."

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Daddy was really, really
interested in transistors.

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And he had ordered books on
transistors, and learned about
the transistors and...

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Transistors are small electronic
devices...

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and they were designed
to supersede valves and tubes.

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But, in the early days
in the 1960s,

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transistors were predominantly
used for amplification purposes.

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A small signal, such as you get
from a guitar, would be played,

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pushed through
to the effects pedal,

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and amplified
by the first transistor.

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It would then roll
from that transistor,

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and then roll through to another
transistor, and then that signal
again would be amplified.

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You would end up with,
in these designs,
a fuzz circuit, uh,

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that would be extremely
pleasurable

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to those that are after
that sort of distorted sound.

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[Glenn]    I went to Chicago
then and got hold
of the Gibson people.

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The owner of Gibson said,
"Well, that's it.

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We'll... we'll take it."

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Sometimes you have to turn
disasters into something
that's positive,

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and that's what we did.

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So that's how the fuzz tone got
started.

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[distorted music playing]

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[Adrian] They market it to
people as a guitar effect

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to make your guitar sound like,
a cello or a banjo or a sitar,

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really strange marketing.

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It did not sell well.
They initially sold 2,000 units
and nobody wanted them.

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They sat on store shelves.

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But, then in 1965,
The Rolling Stones
released "Satisfaction".

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["Satisfaction"
by The Rolling Stones playing]

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[Adrian] Keith Richards,
he used that effect
to do a horn part

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'cause they didn't have
horn players.

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It's very easy to say,
that it would not have been
that successful

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if it wasn't for
The Rolling Stones.

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Indeed, history tells us
that basically,

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they sold out
all of those pedals worldwide

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as a direct consequence of
that song hitting the airwaves.

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It pushed other designers
to make fuzz.

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Essentially, the Maestro laid
the foundations
for what was to come.

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[upbeat music playing]

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[man 2]    In 1965,
later in that year, you have
Denmark Street in London.

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That Maestro
pedal makes its way over.

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Only a few guys have them
in London, the Beatles,
people like that.

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The guy walks in to Macari's
instrument exchange
on Denmark Street.

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[Adrian] Who are Macari's?

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They're a legendary shop
run by legendary people,
making legendary things,

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and have had a massive and
profound effect on our industry,

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so, overall legends.

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[Gary]    This was all down
to Vic Flick, who was
the James Bond guitar man.

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And he came in one day
with a Maestro Fuzz-Tone.

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can you check this out
and do some... something
a little bit better with it?

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It's not giving me
a good enough sound.

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It's just this little short
burping sound
and I want a long sustain.

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So I tried it out for him,
and I couldn't really do
anything with it.

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And I said, leave it with me
and I'll work on it,
and I'll do you something.

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Um, you know, develop,
run, which I did,
and I built him a Tone Bender.

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[heavy distortion playing]

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[Gary]    Jimmy Page,
and Jeff Beck,
and Spencer Davis, Manfred Mann,

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all the names, you name it,
they had it, you know,
at that time.

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[AnthonIt's the one that
Pete Townshend got hold of.

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I don't think,
he liked it very much

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because he gave it
to Mick Ronson.

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And of course,
it became the signature

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Bowie sound on virtually
every bit of distortion
on Bowie records.

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It's one of these, so...
It is really like the holy grail
of fuzz boxes

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along with this,
which is the MK II,

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and this... this came
along six months later.

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This has been used
all over the place,

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but most famously is,
the Led Zeppelin
Jimmy Page pedal.

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So, the product
is kind of important,

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but what's most important
are these guys getting hold
of it and going, boof,

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this is what's going on.

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And basically, at that time,
'65, there was nothing
so, everybody had a Tone Bender.

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[AnthonIt was a catalyst
for everyone to suddenly
want this fuzz sound.

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And right then there was only
one place they could get it.

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I mean, it must have
been... must've been incredible.

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And I built another version
for Marshall,
which was the super-fast.

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And all the other companies
in England actually had
Tone Bender-based fuzz boxes,

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00:14:46.018 --> 00:14:50.155
like, Rotosound,
Barnes & Mullins, Hornby Skewes,

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all the old manufacturers
or importers

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as they were had these pedals
modified in some way or another.

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Labels and music instrument
companies,

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people like that, didn't know,

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what the hell a fuzz
was even supposed to sound like,

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00:15:02.968 --> 00:15:06.005
you know, they're literally
inventing like,
what rock 'n' roll became

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00:15:06.005 --> 00:15:07.573
because no one even knew,
what the hell were...

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that they were trying
to accomplish other than, well,

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it needs to be louder and it
needs to be more aggressive.

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[rock music playing]

220
00:15:18.117 --> 00:15:21.120
[Craig] That gave birth to the
guitar solo in a lot of ways.

221
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.255
If you listen back
to the early days

222
00:15:23.255 --> 00:15:26.492
of The British Invasion
or Buddy Holly,
or people like that.

223
00:15:26.492 --> 00:15:29.361
The solos tended to be fairly
economical, you know,

224
00:15:29.361 --> 00:15:32.031
quite short, and so,
there weren't really tambour.

225
00:15:32.031 --> 00:15:34.033
They were all treated
from a melodic standpoint.

226
00:15:34.033 --> 00:15:37.136
Effects made the solos possible
from a tambour standpoint.

227
00:15:37.136 --> 00:15:41.040
So, you have this significant
kind of ironic moment

228
00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:46.946
where an American accident
in a country music studio
creates an effect pedal,

229
00:15:46.946 --> 00:15:51.617
which then is used
by a British man, ends up
on Denmark Street in London,

230
00:15:51.617 --> 00:15:54.253
and is turned
into the Tone Bender,

231
00:15:54.253 --> 00:15:58.724
which then gives us
everything from
The Yardbirds to Led Zeppelin.

232
00:15:58.724 --> 00:16:03.696
That's probably
the most important moment
in effects pedal history.

233
00:16:03.696 --> 00:16:06.065
Because in 1966,

234
00:16:06.065 --> 00:16:10.169
Arbiter takes
the Tone Bender 1.5
and made the Fuzz Face.

235
00:16:10.169 --> 00:16:14.707
[distorted music playing]

236
00:16:27.252 --> 00:16:29.488
[Morgan] The Fuzz Face...

237
00:16:29.488 --> 00:16:33.625
the one pedal that's made,
like, a million different
variations of it.

238
00:16:33.625 --> 00:16:39.131
It's literally like,
a little blurb out
of an RCA transistor manual,

239
00:16:39.131 --> 00:16:41.500
and some dude decided
to make it.

240
00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:44.236
[Jeorge] I'm a Fuzz Face
fanatic. I love Fuzz Faces.

241
00:16:44.236 --> 00:16:46.005
A Fuzz Face is an instrument,

242
00:16:46.005 --> 00:16:48.774
so, you play to it
and that's what's really fun.

243
00:16:48.774 --> 00:16:51.110
It's very dynamic
and interactive,

244
00:16:51.110 --> 00:16:53.178
and... and you can get all
sorts of crazy stuff from it.

245
00:16:53.178 --> 00:16:54.646
And that's how Hendrix used it.

246
00:16:54.646 --> 00:17:01.754
[rock music playing]

247
00:17:05.724 --> 00:17:10.195
In the '60s,
guitar was hugely popular,

248
00:17:10.195 --> 00:17:14.233
but it had reached kind of a,
um... kind of a plateau,

249
00:17:14.233 --> 00:17:17.603
I think, with a lot of pop bands
doing kind of the same thing.

250
00:17:17.603 --> 00:17:20.572
And then, of course,
Jimi Hendrix came along.

251
00:17:20.572 --> 00:17:22.641
The Fuzz Face is a big one.

252
00:17:22.641 --> 00:17:25.244
You know, Jimi Hendrix has used
that and changed everything.

253
00:17:25.244 --> 00:17:27.312
Jimi Hendrix,
started it all, right?

254
00:17:27.312 --> 00:17:28.781
It all started with Jimi.

255
00:17:28.781 --> 00:17:30.516
He set a standard
in guitar playing

256
00:17:30.516 --> 00:17:32.718
that was heavily dependent
on effects.

257
00:17:32.718 --> 00:17:35.154
And even in the studio
where he did the flanging things

258
00:17:35.154 --> 00:17:37.056
with... with Eddie Kramer
and all that.

259
00:17:37.056 --> 00:17:38.457
That was... that was a big deal.

260
00:17:38.457 --> 00:17:40.325
Well, certainly
Jimi's pedals were tweaked.

261
00:17:40.325 --> 00:17:42.161
There's no question.

262
00:17:42.161 --> 00:17:44.563
Um, Roger Mayer would get
in there with a screwdriver,

263
00:17:44.563 --> 00:17:47.800
take it all apart and mess
with the resistors,

264
00:17:47.800 --> 00:17:49.668
and put different
little transistors in,

265
00:17:49.668 --> 00:17:52.538
and then it would be super-hot.

266
00:17:52.538 --> 00:17:55.274
[man 3] So, Roger Mayer is,

267
00:17:55.274 --> 00:17:59.411
I would class him probably
as one of those legends
of the effects pedal industry.

268
00:17:59.411 --> 00:18:03.549
During the 1960s,
he was working
for the British Navy,

269
00:18:03.549 --> 00:18:09.321
the Admiralty, as it was, uh,
conducting underwater research.

270
00:18:09.321 --> 00:18:13.392
It was during this time that
he was going to a fair few gigs.

271
00:18:13.392 --> 00:18:17.729
And it was at one gig,
that he actually met Jimmy Page.

272
00:18:17.729 --> 00:18:20.532
Jimmy Page, asked him,
to solve a problem

273
00:18:20.532 --> 00:18:25.804
which was to allow him
to have more distortion,
but with more sustain.

274
00:18:25.804 --> 00:18:29.374
Roger went away,
produced the device,

275
00:18:29.374 --> 00:18:34.780
which as legend goes, Jimmy
loved and used prolifically.

276
00:18:34.780 --> 00:18:37.516
Roger also created
another device.

277
00:18:37.516 --> 00:18:40.185
We now know it as the Octavia.

278
00:18:40.185 --> 00:18:44.223
He went to another gig
and spoke to another legendary
guitarist called, Jimi Hendrix.

279
00:18:44.223 --> 00:18:49.828
[rock music playing]

280
00:18:49.828 --> 00:18:53.265
[Vai]    Hendrix reportedly,
you know, gets this prototype,

281
00:18:53.265 --> 00:18:56.468
runs and tracks some of
the solos on this debut record.

282
00:18:56.468 --> 00:18:58.904
You know, even like Purple Haze,
for instance, uh,

283
00:18:58.904 --> 00:19:03.308
where I think, that's an Octavia
where you're listening,
oh, what is that?

284
00:19:03.308 --> 00:19:08.647
It's a type of fuzz
that takes the... the wave
form and folds it over,

285
00:19:08.647 --> 00:19:11.183
and creates an octave up effect.

286
00:19:11.183 --> 00:19:15.521
You know, when they talk about
time travel and poking holes
in the paper,

287
00:19:15.521 --> 00:19:17.356
it's kind of a fuzz
that does that.

288
00:19:17.356 --> 00:19:20.659
Roger, I think, quit his job
at the Admiralty,

289
00:19:20.659 --> 00:19:24.229
and went on tour
with Jimi Hendrix.

290
00:19:24.229 --> 00:19:28.300
But he was described
as Jimi Hendrix's secret weapon

291
00:19:28.300 --> 00:19:34.506
because he essentially modified
and serviced all of Jimi's amps
and effects

292
00:19:34.506 --> 00:19:37.576
which obviously got abused
on a daily basis.

293
00:19:37.576 --> 00:19:42.581
It's like everything that
is Hendrix was handed to him
at the moment it was invented.

294
00:19:42.581 --> 00:19:46.385
We tend to just think, like,
Jimi Hendrix was
a killer guitar player

295
00:19:46.385 --> 00:19:48.487
and he just went to the store
and found all this stuff,

296
00:19:48.487 --> 00:19:51.290
but it's more like these pedals
found him.

297
00:19:51.290 --> 00:19:55.294
So, you have this really
wild chain of events,

298
00:19:55.294 --> 00:20:01.567
three fuzz pedals
creating genres in music within
just a span of a few years.

299
00:20:03.735 --> 00:20:08.407
These early fuzzes,
part of why they sound so unique

300
00:20:08.407 --> 00:20:13.879
is that the part itself that is
fueling the circuit is so bad.

301
00:20:13.879 --> 00:20:18.617
The germanium
transistor is inconsistent.
It's unpredictable.

302
00:20:18.617 --> 00:20:21.753
It's your worst nightmare,
if you're a circuit designer.

303
00:20:21.753 --> 00:20:25.357
So, as quickly as that part
could be done away with it was,

304
00:20:25.357 --> 00:20:29.494
rightly so,
and you see the first silicon
fuzzes come into play.

305
00:20:29.494 --> 00:20:34.233
The Arbiter Fuzz Faces start
using BC108 transistors, BC109s.

306
00:20:34.233 --> 00:20:37.269
This is what Hendrix really used
more than anything,

307
00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:39.938
and Roger Mayer's designs
incorporated these.

308
00:20:39.938 --> 00:20:43.242
You see the Tone Benders
go to silicon.

309
00:20:43.242 --> 00:20:46.712
In 1969 though,
you see the Big Muff.

310
00:20:46.712 --> 00:20:48.914
[distorted music playing]

311
00:20:48.914 --> 00:20:51.483
[Johnny] My favorite pedal
maker?
Yeah, Mike Matthews by far.

312
00:20:51.483 --> 00:20:52.584
Absolutely.

313
00:20:52.584 --> 00:20:54.253
How do you not love that guy?

314
00:20:54.253 --> 00:20:56.622
He's a crazy man.

315
00:20:56.622 --> 00:21:00.025
If you want to talk about
the mad professor,
that's Mike Matthews.

316
00:21:00.025 --> 00:21:03.762
Mike is quite
a force to be reckoned with.

317
00:21:03.762 --> 00:21:07.666
And he doesn't even play guitar,
like, he plays piano.

318
00:21:07.666 --> 00:21:13.005
And still he's responsible
for so much of what we're doing
in the industry to-date.

319
00:21:13.005 --> 00:21:19.578
[soft music playing]

320
00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:23.815
[ZacharThere's only one.
He's a god.

321
00:21:23.815 --> 00:21:27.352
To his company he said was
born in a cloud of pot smoke.

322
00:21:27.352 --> 00:21:29.588
He was having a conversation
with his wife

323
00:21:29.588 --> 00:21:31.990
and decided he was gonna
just start a pedal company.

324
00:21:31.990 --> 00:21:35.727
[Mike Matthews]    Well, uh,
while I was in college,

325
00:21:35.727 --> 00:21:38.297
after my sophomore year
with a friend,

326
00:21:38.297 --> 00:21:41.833
I started promoting big name
rock 'n' roll acts
in the summer.

327
00:21:41.833 --> 00:21:47.839
Coasters, The Drifters,
Shirelles, The Rascals,
The Byrds, Chuck Berry.

328
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:51.910
With Chuck Berry, he traveled
alone, so, the promoter
had to get the band.

329
00:21:51.910 --> 00:21:54.513
My band was more straight,
hard-hitting R&B.

330
00:21:54.513 --> 00:21:57.015
So, I got them to back up
Chuck Berry,

331
00:21:57.015 --> 00:21:59.685
and I played keyboards on the...
on the concert with Chuck Berry.
It was two dates.

332
00:21:59.685 --> 00:22:02.020
And then the promoter
who sold me Chuck Berry...

333
00:22:03.388 --> 00:22:04.856
he called me up a week
before the date.

334
00:22:04.856 --> 00:22:06.825
He says, "Mike,
I need you to do me a favor.

335
00:22:06.825 --> 00:22:08.493
I need... I got this band.

336
00:22:08.493 --> 00:22:10.329
They're...
they're... they're great.

337
00:22:10.329 --> 00:22:11.963
They're... you need to
take them for three nights."

338
00:22:11.963 --> 00:22:14.800
That other band was
Curtis Knight and the Squires.

339
00:22:14.800 --> 00:22:18.337
And the guitar player
that he said was amazing
was Jimmy James.

340
00:22:18.337 --> 00:22:20.872
But Jimmy James eventually
became Jimi Hendrix,

341
00:22:20.872 --> 00:22:24.943
and me and Jimi became
real good, real best friends
for... for a couple of years.

342
00:22:24.943 --> 00:22:29.548
The hottest thing in pedals was,
uh, Fuzz Tones.

343
00:22:29.548 --> 00:22:33.652
Uh, Al Dronge, who
is the founder of Guild Guitars
wanted to sell fuzz tones.

344
00:22:33.652 --> 00:22:37.756
So I'd go... I build them up,
and this was while
I was still working for IBM.

345
00:22:37.756 --> 00:22:41.727
But then, that's just,
when Jimi Hendrix became hot,

346
00:22:41.727 --> 00:22:45.630
and everybody then wanted
to play like Jimi Hendrix,

347
00:22:45.630 --> 00:22:48.700
and Jimi was just vibrating
his finger and the guitar
would sing forever.

348
00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:52.604
So, everybody wanted
what they thought was, like,
this distortion free sustaining.

349
00:22:52.604 --> 00:22:55.440
And that would go up to 10
but, I mean,

350
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.577
if you could turn it up to 30,
that's when it would, might
start to overdrive and distort.

351
00:22:58.577 --> 00:23:04.483
But with the LPB-1,
all of a sudden,
all amps were much louder.

352
00:23:04.483 --> 00:23:10.522
[rock music playing]

353
00:23:10.522 --> 00:23:14.960
[Mike] So, the LPB-1
was my first product
under the Electro-Harmonix name.

354
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:20.699
So, in that same box,
I just changed
two of the capacitor values,

355
00:23:20.699 --> 00:23:24.669
and we had a treble booster
which was called
the Screaming Bird.

356
00:23:24.669 --> 00:23:29.808
And then we also had
a bass booster, also changing
some capacitors called the Mole.

357
00:23:29.808 --> 00:23:33.578
And then we had,
I made a little older drive
distortion unit

358
00:23:33.578 --> 00:23:36.915
and had a muffled sound called,
so, I called that the Muff Fuzz.

359
00:23:36.915 --> 00:23:42.087
And then later on,
we developed a more complex
distortion unit,

360
00:23:42.087 --> 00:23:43.822
and I really fiddled around
with that.

361
00:23:43.822 --> 00:23:46.191
It had these multiple stages,

362
00:23:46.191 --> 00:23:51.797
and I carefully rolled off
the tones
and that became the Big Muff.

363
00:23:51.797 --> 00:23:58.837
[rock music playing]

364
00:23:58.837 --> 00:24:02.040
[Billy] There the sound of,
like, the greatest amp ever,

365
00:24:02.040 --> 00:24:05.010
and the greatest guitar ever
cranked to 147

366
00:24:05.010 --> 00:24:07.712
and you're playing on the moon,
right?

367
00:24:07.712 --> 00:24:12.551
But you got to find this exact
right fit tonally, where you get
enough low-high combination.

368
00:24:12.551 --> 00:24:14.553
You get the attack,
you get the subs,

369
00:24:14.553 --> 00:24:16.521
and that's what I always love
about this Big Muff sound.

370
00:24:16.521 --> 00:24:18.590
It's like... it kind of gives me
everything

371
00:24:18.590 --> 00:24:21.226
I want as a guitar player
in sort of one mashed-up sound.

372
00:24:21.226 --> 00:24:24.596
And I love it 'cause
it says it's a distortion pedal.

373
00:24:24.596 --> 00:24:27.499
It's like a different word.

374
00:24:27.499 --> 00:24:30.535
You could play the same riff
through them and your attitude
will change playing to that box.

375
00:24:30.535 --> 00:24:34.673
It's a more complex circuit,
probably has 20 times
the parts in it.

376
00:24:34.673 --> 00:24:38.610
[Mike Matthews] And had this
wonderful distortion,
wonderful sustain,

377
00:24:38.610 --> 00:24:42.881
it almost was distortion free,
sweet, so it did sound like,
Jimi Hendrix.

378
00:24:42.881 --> 00:24:46.017
[JosIf it weren't
for Mike Matthews, there
would be fewer great pedals.

379
00:24:46.017 --> 00:24:49.688
You know, I had no idea,
how far back this company went

380
00:24:49.688 --> 00:24:52.691
until I saw the vintage stash
in the basement,

381
00:24:52.691 --> 00:24:56.795
or met employees that have
worked there like 30 years plus.

382
00:24:56.795 --> 00:25:00.131
[Josh] I think you have to look
at everything he pulled off.

383
00:25:00.131 --> 00:25:02.767
I mean, bankruptcy twice?

384
00:25:02.767 --> 00:25:06.972
Starts selling tubes,
and then decides I'm gonna
make my pedals here in Russia.

385
00:25:06.972 --> 00:25:08.907
Like, who does that?
It's crazy.

386
00:25:08.907 --> 00:25:12.978
Comes back from the dust,
you know, again.

387
00:25:12.978 --> 00:25:16.815
It's an ultimate story
of just a guy that is successful

388
00:25:16.815 --> 00:25:20.685
because he's a great businessman
and he's a great creator.

389
00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:28.927
[Ben Fong] The '60s were a time
of... of amazing change,

390
00:25:28.927 --> 00:25:31.263
and it wasn't just changes
in recording studios.

391
00:25:31.263 --> 00:25:35.200
It was changes in the attitudes
and the power of the artist.

392
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:39.070
Now, in the mid to late '60s
with artists like Jimi Hendrix

393
00:25:39.070 --> 00:25:41.940
and then especially The Beatles,
some of the San Francisco bands,

394
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:48.813
they pretty much took control,
and they came to the music with
an entirely different mindset.

395
00:25:48.813 --> 00:25:54.586
And I think that that helped set
the tone for what, uh,
the wah-wah entered into.

396
00:25:54.586 --> 00:25:57.756
[mellow music playing]

397
00:25:57.756 --> 00:26:03.728
I went to work for a company
called Thomas Organ Company,
when I was 18 years old.

398
00:26:03.728 --> 00:26:09.234
One day, uh,
I was sort of between jobs,
and I was talking to my boss,

399
00:26:09.234 --> 00:26:14.573
and he said he was wrestling
with a problem on one
of the VOX amplifiers

400
00:26:14.573 --> 00:26:18.143
in that it had a switch on it
called mid-range boost,

401
00:26:18.143 --> 00:26:21.179
and the switch
was very expensive, about $4.

402
00:26:21.179 --> 00:26:24.182
And he was wondering,
if I could devise a circuit

403
00:26:24.182 --> 00:26:28.153
that would allow the mid-range
boosts to be tuned
with the potentiometer

404
00:26:28.153 --> 00:26:30.789
which only cost about 30 cents.

405
00:26:30.789 --> 00:26:36.161
So, you click, click, click,
and you can get mid-range,
more mid-range, more mid-range.

406
00:26:36.161 --> 00:26:40.832
In order to give an expression
to the voice of the guitar,

407
00:26:40.832 --> 00:26:45.003
I asked the engineering
department to take
that MRB switch

408
00:26:45.003 --> 00:26:47.272
that they had put
in that amplifier,

409
00:26:47.272 --> 00:26:51.843
put in this pedal here,
so, that I can play the guitar,

410
00:26:51.843 --> 00:26:55.880
and play... and pick
at the same time.

411
00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.118
Uh, so I went next door and
asked a friend of mine,
John Glennon,

412
00:27:00.118 --> 00:27:05.624
if he would come into the office
and plug his guitar into the
pile of wires, and resistors,

413
00:27:05.624 --> 00:27:07.659
and capacitors
I had on the bench.

414
00:27:07.659 --> 00:27:11.262
I turned the potentiometer,
while he strummed some chords.

415
00:27:11.262 --> 00:27:15.934
Then we looked at each other,
he said, wow,
that's a really great sound.

416
00:27:15.934 --> 00:27:20.972
Then I looked over his shoulder
and through a doorway into
another room,

417
00:27:20.972 --> 00:27:24.142
and, um,
there was a VOX Jaguar organ.

418
00:27:24.142 --> 00:27:26.811
So, I said, hey, John,

419
00:27:26.811 --> 00:27:29.881
go steal that volume pedal
from Frank's organ
and let's put the pod in there.

420
00:27:29.881 --> 00:27:34.753
The president of the company
sent down word that he wanted
to hear this thing.

421
00:27:34.753 --> 00:27:37.055
And he said, "That sounds like,

422
00:27:37.055 --> 00:27:40.659
a Clyde McCoy wah-wah
trumpet thing."

423
00:27:40.659 --> 00:27:44.195
And I thought to myself,
what's a Clyde McCoy wah-wah
trumpet thing?

424
00:27:44.195 --> 00:27:47.432
[upbeat music playing]

425
00:27:51.269 --> 00:27:56.374
[Del] Joe Benaron, who was CEO
of Warwick called Clyde McCoy.

426
00:27:56.374 --> 00:27:59.744
And he said, you... can...
can we give you some money
and we'll use your name.

427
00:27:59.744 --> 00:28:02.113
And Clyde McCoy was
living in Louisiana somewhere.

428
00:28:02.113 --> 00:28:06.051
And he said, "Hey,
fine with me." That was it.

429
00:28:06.051 --> 00:28:09.054
That was the beginning
of Clyde McCoy
and the end of Clyde McCoy.

430
00:28:09.054 --> 00:28:11.389
Ended in the fact,

431
00:28:11.389 --> 00:28:14.993
that Clyde McCoy's name went
on the bottom plate of the
Wah-Wah Pedal

432
00:28:14.993 --> 00:28:16.895
that was commercially released.

433
00:28:16.895 --> 00:28:18.730
And I said, no, no,
no, Joe, you don't get it.

434
00:28:18.730 --> 00:28:21.366
I said,
this is really a guitar thing.

435
00:28:21.366 --> 00:28:26.171
So, would you let me make
a record of original tunes,
like I'm doing on record dates,

436
00:28:26.171 --> 00:28:30.241
but I wanna describe
what the growl of a wah
would sound like,

437
00:28:30.241 --> 00:28:32.944
what blues would sound like.

438
00:28:32.944 --> 00:28:37.148
[man The fabulous new Crybaby
Pedal opens the door to
a variety of great new sounds.

439
00:28:37.148 --> 00:28:39.451
Now, let's listen
to the Crybaby Pedal in action.

440
00:28:39.451 --> 00:28:43.888
[distorted music playing]

441
00:28:47.959 --> 00:28:50.895
And, as, I was writing the music
for it, composing it,

442
00:28:50.895 --> 00:28:54.733
I was thinking somebody's
got to really make
this sound really great.

443
00:28:54.733 --> 00:28:59.938
I told Frank Zappa about it
and I said, Frank, you got to...
you got to buy one of these.

444
00:28:59.938 --> 00:29:03.041
And so he did buy one
at Manny's in New York.

445
00:29:03.041 --> 00:29:05.310
And I think, um,
that's where, uh,

446
00:29:05.310 --> 00:29:09.380
about the middle of 1967
is when Jimi Hendrix walked in

447
00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:11.950
and saw Frank Zappa and he said,
"What is that you're playing?"

448
00:29:11.950 --> 00:29:14.352
And he said,
"I bought this at Manny's,
you know, Del told me about it."

449
00:29:14.352 --> 00:29:15.887
So, Jimi went over
and bought it.

450
00:29:15.887 --> 00:29:18.790
[rock music playing]

451
00:29:18.790 --> 00:29:23.862
[Skip] The wah-wah was a quiet,
kept secret at the time.

452
00:29:23.862 --> 00:29:26.097
A lot of people didn't know,
what was making that sound.

453
00:29:26.097 --> 00:29:31.102
They just heard the sound.
It was like, damn,
he's playing his ass off.

454
00:29:31.102 --> 00:29:33.138
But see, if you can play
at your feet,

455
00:29:33.138 --> 00:29:35.206
you can play
some of the wah-wah.

456
00:29:35.206 --> 00:29:37.275
[man 5]
And I think, the wah-wah
was the first effect

457
00:29:37.275 --> 00:29:41.412
that really spoke to the rock
listener or pop music listener

458
00:29:41.412 --> 00:29:43.248
because it virtually spoke.

459
00:29:43.248 --> 00:29:46.417
[rock music playing]

460
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.157
[Eddie] The way Jimmy Page
used it Dazed and Confused,

461
00:29:52.157 --> 00:29:55.794
I remember sitting in the truck
and watching it on the monitor,

462
00:29:55.794 --> 00:29:59.364
and just being blown away,
A, by the performance that's
coming at me on the speakers,

463
00:29:59.364 --> 00:30:01.833
and B, what is he doing with it?

464
00:30:01.833 --> 00:30:05.036
In the areas of, uh,
R&B and soul music,

465
00:30:05.036 --> 00:30:09.541
I think Sly Stone
has to be credited
with being open to those sounds.

466
00:30:09.541 --> 00:30:13.945
Soon enough, Norman Whitfield
of Motown began hearing

467
00:30:13.945 --> 00:30:18.316
what Sly was doing out
of the Bay Area and said, "Man,
that is a great sound."

468
00:30:18.316 --> 00:30:21.219
And he began to apply it
to his work at Motown.

469
00:30:21.219 --> 00:30:24.022
[Dennis] Norman Whitfield, was
there with one of the arrangers

470
00:30:24.022 --> 00:30:27.859
and they counted off the song,
and I come up with this wah-wah
thing, and I was doing it,

471
00:30:27.859 --> 00:30:31.062
and I could see some of the guys
in The Funk Brothers,
were looking at me

472
00:30:31.062 --> 00:30:32.831
because they never heard
that before.

473
00:30:32.831 --> 00:30:34.966
I'd never forget the...
the horn players,

474
00:30:34.966 --> 00:30:38.236
they were older guys because
we were young and they said,

475
00:30:38.236 --> 00:30:42.307
"I wish he turned that chicka
chicka whitewash shit down."

476
00:30:42.307 --> 00:30:47.178
["Papa Was A Rollin' Stone"
by The Temptations playing]

477
00:30:51.216 --> 00:30:55.119
Cause it's like,
it was the 3rd of September,
wah, wah, wah, wah.

478
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:58.189
So, that's what it... You know,
it's a Wah-wah pedal
so that's what it does.

479
00:30:58.189 --> 00:31:03.094
I would like to make it sound
like something else other than
wah-wah

480
00:31:03.094 --> 00:31:06.931
so, it became more of
a percussive tool for me.

481
00:31:06.931 --> 00:31:10.501
You see, like a police car
chase, you know,

482
00:31:10.501 --> 00:31:15.373
The Six Million Dollar Man,
and all the... all the '70s TV
themes had... had wah-wah.

483
00:31:15.373 --> 00:31:18.343
[Ben FonYou know, it's not
just, uh, the old Jimi Hendrix,
and Cream,

484
00:31:18.343 --> 00:31:22.480
and Derek and the Dominos,
but also more contemporary
rockers use it.

485
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:27.051
Rage Against the Machine
or Dave Matthews Band or U2.

486
00:31:27.051 --> 00:31:28.620
And different instruments,

487
00:31:28.620 --> 00:31:31.389
Miles Davis had his side players
do the wah-wah

488
00:31:31.389 --> 00:31:33.558
through their... their
keyboards, for example,

489
00:31:33.558 --> 00:31:35.560
and of course, he did it through
his trumpet.

490
00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:38.029
And King Curtis
did it through his sax.

491
00:31:38.029 --> 00:31:42.200
And so you find this sound
throughout music,

492
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.068
and throughout
all kinds of music.

493
00:31:44.068 --> 00:31:47.338
I think stomp box has completely
unlocked the door

494
00:31:47.338 --> 00:31:52.110
to a... to an awful lot
of creativity as far as
what people did with guitars.

495
00:31:52.110 --> 00:31:57.081
[Craig]    Back in those days,
a lot of the pedal was driven by
popular sounds.

496
00:31:57.081 --> 00:32:02.220
And there was also a period of
time when innovation was valued
highly in the music industry.

497
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.589
Ironically, with fewer choices,

498
00:32:04.589 --> 00:32:08.426
there often tended
to be more experimentation
back in those days.

499
00:32:08.426 --> 00:32:11.129
Things changed.
Music changed.

500
00:32:11.129 --> 00:32:14.399
People's attitudes about guitar
and then the things
they could do with guitar

501
00:32:14.399 --> 00:32:16.067
certainly changed.

502
00:32:16.067 --> 00:32:18.136
Man, you know,
what a world they created.

503
00:32:18.136 --> 00:32:21.072
[low beat music playing]

504
00:32:21.072 --> 00:32:23.574
[Fran]    In the early '70s,
there was this huge explosion

505
00:32:23.574 --> 00:32:28.713
of pedals because there was
a huge explosion in application
of technologies for solid state.

506
00:32:28.713 --> 00:32:33.718
And then around '70, '71, '72,
all these analog effects started
to come out.

507
00:32:33.718 --> 00:32:39.057
New chips every week for, um,
doing just about everything
in the analog realm.

508
00:32:39.057 --> 00:32:44.162
It's a sordid tale,
but at its core,
it's people trying new things.

509
00:32:44.162 --> 00:32:48.266
and then try new things
with new components
when they came out.

510
00:32:48.266 --> 00:32:50.601
[Joel]
I'm way into the Mu-Tron stuff.

511
00:32:50.601 --> 00:32:54.572
It's all just super interesting
to me like how... how that stuff
was coming out and then,

512
00:32:54.572 --> 00:32:57.375
you know, the music of the time
was influenced by it,

513
00:32:57.375 --> 00:32:59.143
and then they influenced
each other,

514
00:32:59.143 --> 00:33:02.480
and how that... I think,
that continues of course.

515
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:09.220
I went to MIT to study
electrical engineering in 1964,

516
00:33:09.220 --> 00:33:11.689
and I was interested
in synthesizers.

517
00:33:11.689 --> 00:33:17.562
My friend Izzy was making
electronic locks which
used electro-optical codes.

518
00:33:17.562 --> 00:33:22.433
Izzy, who wasn't quite as crazy
about electronic music
as I was

519
00:33:22.433 --> 00:33:25.570
said, "Well, can you make
something that actually
makes regular music?"

520
00:33:25.570 --> 00:33:29.407
At which point we collaborated
and made a synthesizer.

521
00:33:29.407 --> 00:33:35.313
What we ended up doing
was to shop around
until we actually found somebody

522
00:33:35.313 --> 00:33:38.416
who could buy
and finance the synthesizer.

523
00:33:38.416 --> 00:33:41.586
That was Al Dronge who was,
at that time,

524
00:33:41.586 --> 00:33:44.455
the President of
Guild Musical Instruments.

525
00:33:44.455 --> 00:33:49.127
After a few months
of flailing around,
we got a contract with Guild

526
00:33:49.127 --> 00:33:51.796
and proceeded to build
the synthesizer,

527
00:33:51.796 --> 00:33:54.699
and what we call the
Timbre Generator to go with it.

528
00:33:54.699 --> 00:33:58.169
One beautiful spring day,
I came into the office

529
00:33:58.169 --> 00:34:00.505
and phone rings,
it's Aaron on the phone.

530
00:34:00.505 --> 00:34:04.409
Al Dronge has been killed
in an airplane crash.

531
00:34:06.744 --> 00:34:09.614
That was the end of Al Dronge.
And that was also

532
00:34:09.614 --> 00:34:12.817
the beginning of the end
of the synthesizer project.

533
00:34:12.817 --> 00:34:17.555
We started to talk about taking
some parts of the synthesizer

534
00:34:17.555 --> 00:34:22.260
and seeing if we could squeeze
them into a pedal
that was affordable.

535
00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:25.630
The decision was to use
the envelope follower,

536
00:34:25.630 --> 00:34:28.666
voltage controlled filter,
and a pre-amp

537
00:34:28.666 --> 00:34:30.802
to make a new kind of
musical effect.

538
00:34:30.802 --> 00:34:35.373
That's what we eventually
packaged as the Mu-Tron III.

539
00:34:35.373 --> 00:34:42.180
[distorted music playing]

540
00:34:56.527 --> 00:34:58.362
[Beigel]
I think from the very beginning,

541
00:34:58.362 --> 00:35:02.867
both Aaron and I wanted to put
studio quality sound

542
00:35:02.867 --> 00:35:05.603
into affordable pedals.

543
00:35:05.603 --> 00:35:11.109
That shaped our outlook
to design from the beginning
all the way to the end.

544
00:35:11.109 --> 00:35:14.545
The thing that put
us so-called on the map

545
00:35:14.545 --> 00:35:18.282
was Stevie Wonder's recording of
"Higher Ground",

546
00:35:18.282 --> 00:35:22.186
which was an exquisite use of
a Mu-Tron in a song

547
00:35:22.186 --> 00:35:26.390
that I felt was very appropriate
to the times.

548
00:35:26.390 --> 00:35:29.827
In the '70s,
the big stuff was filters.

549
00:35:29.827 --> 00:35:33.197
Frank Zappa, Grateful Dead.

550
00:35:33.197 --> 00:35:37.635
For Jerry Garcia of all the
different people that used it

551
00:35:37.635 --> 00:35:39.537
and made good sounds of it,

552
00:35:39.537 --> 00:35:44.675
I think that almost the
signature use of the product.

553
00:35:44.675 --> 00:35:50.548
[quirky music playing]

554
00:35:50.548 --> 00:35:54.185
The photomod combination
was something

555
00:35:54.185 --> 00:35:59.857
that was very great at low noise
and handling high signals.

556
00:35:59.857 --> 00:36:07.365
First was a two-cell photomod
for the Mu-Tron III,
and later a six-cell photomod,

557
00:36:07.365 --> 00:36:09.901
which were used in the Phasor
and Bi-Phase.

558
00:36:09.901 --> 00:36:14.939
[heavy distortion playing]

559
00:36:17.175 --> 00:36:19.277
[Vai]
Still, the Mu-Tron Bi-Phase

560
00:36:19.277 --> 00:36:22.780
is a fantastic piece of gear
as a pedal.

561
00:36:22.780 --> 00:36:26.517
Uh, it just has these generators
sweeps

562
00:36:26.517 --> 00:36:30.588
that can, uh, manipulate
various frequencies

563
00:36:30.588 --> 00:36:32.957
and move the tonality around.

564
00:36:34.425 --> 00:36:38.362
Well, the Bi-Phase and all of
this Mu-Tron stuff I heard about

565
00:36:38.362 --> 00:36:41.432
when I was very young, and I was
reading Frank Zappa interviews

566
00:36:41.432 --> 00:36:44.635
'cause he was one of the first
ones to use this device

567
00:36:44.635 --> 00:36:46.904
in a very musical way,
I believe, you know?

568
00:36:46.904 --> 00:36:50.341
And, uh, so I always,
they always held a mystique,

569
00:36:50.341 --> 00:36:52.310
and when I could afford it
later on,

570
00:36:52.310 --> 00:36:53.978
I just started trying to
collect them.

571
00:36:53.978 --> 00:36:57.715
My dad was one of the people
that was always at the forefront

572
00:36:57.715 --> 00:37:00.585
of trying out different things
and using them in ways

573
00:37:00.585 --> 00:37:03.221
that a lot of people
wouldn't use them.

574
00:37:03.221 --> 00:37:07.558
So Frank would take an existing
piece of gear

575
00:37:07.558 --> 00:37:12.663
or an existing piece of anything
and just get into it, pull it,

576
00:37:12.663 --> 00:37:16.334
and tweeze it until it did
something he was hearing.

577
00:37:16.334 --> 00:37:19.437
And there was
Utility Muffin Research Kitchen

578
00:37:19.437 --> 00:37:22.373
which is his studio in his home.

579
00:37:22.373 --> 00:37:25.343
And right underneath the control
room was kind of like a
little, uh...

580
00:37:25.343 --> 00:37:26.711
a little office of sorts.

581
00:37:26.711 --> 00:37:29.947
It was a work room
that, uh, his engineers,

582
00:37:29.947 --> 00:37:32.817
one of them in particular
Midget,
this guy Midget Sloatman,

583
00:37:32.817 --> 00:37:37.421
who was, uh, Frank's wife's
brother was brilliant.

584
00:37:37.421 --> 00:37:40.291
And he would go down there and
he would tweak all this gear,

585
00:37:40.291 --> 00:37:44.695
Frank's gear and guitars,
and put effects in the guitars,

586
00:37:44.695 --> 00:37:48.899
and take existing effects
and just tweak them
to get more and more.

587
00:37:48.899 --> 00:37:52.536
It didn't hold any rules
or boundaries.

588
00:37:52.536 --> 00:37:57.041
I had this one pedal that
I used all through high school.
It was my favorite pedal.

589
00:37:57.041 --> 00:38:02.613
It was an odd pedal because
it had a wah-wah and
the distortion built into it.

590
00:38:02.613 --> 00:38:06.484
And I carried it around, and
I used it everywhere, and
I brought it out to California,

591
00:38:06.484 --> 00:38:09.787
and I had it in my first
Frank Zappa rehearsal.
[chuckles]

592
00:38:09.787 --> 00:38:11.656
And he said,
"What is that thing?"

593
00:38:11.656 --> 00:38:15.426
I remember thinking, Frank, take
anything, don't take that pedal.

594
00:38:15.426 --> 00:38:18.296
And he's playing it
and playing it, and I'm like...

595
00:38:19.330 --> 00:38:20.865
Oh, you know,
you can have that if you like,

596
00:38:20.865 --> 00:38:23.701
and he looks at me,
he goes, "Thank you."

597
00:38:23.701 --> 00:38:26.003
[laughs]

598
00:38:26.003 --> 00:38:28.706
So it's buried in the
Zappa vault somewhere.

599
00:38:28.706 --> 00:38:31.375
[Dweezil]
That's... that's the thing
that you just keep searching for

600
00:38:31.375 --> 00:38:34.045
as a guitarist is the thing
that will put you

601
00:38:34.045 --> 00:38:37.748
in the creative state of mind
to play your best

602
00:38:37.748 --> 00:38:41.452
and, you know, ultimately,
be able to capture that,

603
00:38:41.452 --> 00:38:44.722
and deliver it to people
'cause the sound that you make

604
00:38:44.722 --> 00:38:48.092
is the sonic fingerprint
of what you do.

605
00:38:48.092 --> 00:38:52.830
And that's what you deliver
to people so that they remember

606
00:38:52.830 --> 00:38:55.433
what it is that you have
to offer, you know?

607
00:38:55.433 --> 00:39:01.105
So if you have all these pedals
and they create the sonic
fingerprint that you make,

608
00:39:01.105 --> 00:39:05.343
that is a big part of the
process of making music.

609
00:39:05.343 --> 00:39:09.080
If they came out with the Phasor
then you'd hear it on albums,

610
00:39:09.080 --> 00:39:10.881
people would wanna buy it
and they would...

611
00:39:10.881 --> 00:39:12.550
they just couldn't
make them fast enough.

612
00:39:12.550 --> 00:39:14.051
And these were just,

613
00:39:14.051 --> 00:39:16.687
uh, kind of based on maybe
studio effect ideas

614
00:39:16.687 --> 00:39:18.389
back in the... like the flanger.

615
00:39:18.389 --> 00:39:20.424
They wanted to get the
sound of tape flanging.

616
00:39:20.424 --> 00:39:25.963
[Josh]
Modulation is the effect
of modulating the pitch

617
00:39:25.963 --> 00:39:27.798
or the movement of the signal.

618
00:39:27.798 --> 00:39:31.502
And the earliest forms of that
are things like

619
00:39:31.502 --> 00:39:33.471
simply plugging
into a Leslie cabinet.

620
00:39:33.471 --> 00:39:35.573
You see this on Beatles records,

621
00:39:35.573 --> 00:39:37.775
and there's tons of artists
who did this.

622
00:39:37.775 --> 00:39:40.978
You also get into
the use of tape machines.

623
00:39:40.978 --> 00:39:43.981
The term flange is
a Beatles [inaudible].

624
00:39:43.981 --> 00:39:45.916
I believe the story goes,

625
00:39:45.916 --> 00:39:48.519
John Lennon puts his thumb on
the flange of the tape machine

626
00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:53.758
and... and it smears the note,
drags it next to the pure
tape recording.

627
00:39:53.758 --> 00:39:59.530
So you have these early
instances of mechanical effect,

628
00:39:59.530 --> 00:40:05.102
and the Phasors kind of start
in '68 with the Uni-Vibe.

629
00:40:05.102 --> 00:40:09.907
[distorted music playing]

630
00:40:19.884 --> 00:40:22.553
People who hear Hendrix, they
hear the "Star-Spangled Banner".

631
00:40:22.553 --> 00:40:24.789
They hear "Machine Gun".

632
00:40:24.789 --> 00:40:29.527
The idea has always been,
well, the Uni-Vibe
it's a rotary effect.

633
00:40:29.527 --> 00:40:32.596
You put your foot down,
and you speed the cabinet up
or slow it down.

634
00:40:32.596 --> 00:40:35.032
The inventor of that says
that wasn't the case.

635
00:40:35.032 --> 00:40:39.870
He grew up as a kid listening
to radio frequencies
coming from Russia.

636
00:40:39.870 --> 00:40:43.774
They'd bounce off the atmosphere
and they come down, and he said,

637
00:40:43.774 --> 00:40:46.844
he listened to these as a kid
and when they bounced off

638
00:40:46.844 --> 00:40:49.914
the atmosphere,
they would whoosh, whoosh,
they would phase,

639
00:40:49.914 --> 00:40:52.950
which is so bizarre,
but Hendrix gets it.

640
00:40:52.950 --> 00:40:56.720
And it's forever known as like
this rotary speaker effect.

641
00:40:56.720 --> 00:41:00.057
[Art]
People started seeing the
possibilities of what'd happen,

642
00:41:00.057 --> 00:41:01.926
you know, if you started
screwing around

643
00:41:01.926 --> 00:41:04.962
with different kinds of circuits
that would do things

644
00:41:04.962 --> 00:41:09.166
that hadn't been done before,
but to take it
beyond that point,

645
00:41:09.166 --> 00:41:11.669
it... it... it definitely
took some innovators.

646
00:41:11.669 --> 00:41:17.508
I think MXR was really
on the forefront
of a lot of that innovation.

647
00:41:17.508 --> 00:41:20.010
You've got Keith Barr and
you've got Terry Sherwood.

648
00:41:20.010 --> 00:41:25.249
And they started out as guys
that really just wanted to be
repairing stuff.

649
00:41:25.249 --> 00:41:28.719
Keith was the designer,
the engineer designing products,

650
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:30.921
and Terry was running
the business,

651
00:41:30.921 --> 00:41:33.123
handling the financial
end of it.
And Michael was a salesman.

652
00:41:33.123 --> 00:41:35.626
[Richard] Keith and I
drove down to New York

653
00:41:35.626 --> 00:41:40.030
to the Audio Engineering
Society Show in 1972.

654
00:41:40.030 --> 00:41:41.799
We walked the show,

655
00:41:41.799 --> 00:41:44.235
and I think that's when Keith
kind of got the bug on,

656
00:41:44.235 --> 00:41:46.871
maybe we can make some
products for the audio industry.

657
00:41:46.871 --> 00:41:50.841
Now besides just repairing
stuff, that's when the pedal
started firming,

658
00:41:50.841 --> 00:41:55.913
and one of the guys stopped by
for his repairs
and brought by a pedal.

659
00:41:55.913 --> 00:42:00.718
Keith looked at that and we got
the idea for the first one
pedal, the Phase 90.

660
00:42:00.718 --> 00:42:06.056
[rock music playing]

661
00:42:06.056 --> 00:42:09.793
[Joe]
You can hear MXR Phase 90
or Phase 45 blindfolded,

662
00:42:09.793 --> 00:42:14.965
you know, it...
it really is a very, um,
distinguishable phase sound.

663
00:42:14.965 --> 00:42:17.001
You plug into that thing
and it's one knob,

664
00:42:17.001 --> 00:42:19.169
and it's like you
put it at like eight o'clock

665
00:42:19.169 --> 00:42:21.071
and you're, you have Eruption.

666
00:42:21.071 --> 00:42:23.140
You put it at 12 o'clock
and you've got Rush 2112.

667
00:42:23.140 --> 00:42:25.643
You put it up at, you know,
three o'clock

668
00:42:25.643 --> 00:42:28.879
and you've got Zakk Wylde today.
It looks cool
'cause it's orange.

669
00:42:28.879 --> 00:42:33.651
The term genius
is thrown around, uh,
by a lot of people too easily.

670
00:42:33.651 --> 00:42:37.054
Keith Barr is the only person
I've met in my life
that I would say is a genius.

671
00:42:37.054 --> 00:42:40.658
Keith dropped out of high
school when he was 16.

672
00:42:40.658 --> 00:42:43.160
He took all of the advanced
chemistry courses,

673
00:42:43.160 --> 00:42:46.797
all the advanced science,
all the advanced math classes
he could, quit school,

674
00:42:46.797 --> 00:42:48.799
walked out when he was in his
sophomore year,

675
00:42:48.799 --> 00:42:51.235
never got a high school degree,
never went to college for a day,

676
00:42:51.235 --> 00:42:53.003
taught himself electronics.

677
00:42:53.003 --> 00:42:55.573
Designing phase shifter,
designing distortion,

678
00:42:55.573 --> 00:42:59.643
plus products
that are going to be the
industry standard for 40 years.

679
00:42:59.643 --> 00:43:03.247
An absolutely, utterly,
brilliant, fearless guy

680
00:43:03.247 --> 00:43:06.050
who I just had endless
admiration for.

681
00:43:07.885 --> 00:43:12.656
[Richard] Uh, Keith and Terry
were renting the lower half
of the house here,

682
00:43:12.656 --> 00:43:14.925
and, uh, they have use
of the basement

683
00:43:14.925 --> 00:43:18.262
so we set up a little
production facility
in the basement of the house,

684
00:43:18.262 --> 00:43:21.665
and we're making
a dozen at a time or so.

685
00:43:21.665 --> 00:43:23.867
The board, it was raw material
we bought

686
00:43:23.867 --> 00:43:26.103
and we actually etched
the boards here

687
00:43:26.103 --> 00:43:28.973
with a drill press
drilling the holes in the boxes
and everything.

688
00:43:28.973 --> 00:43:32.743
We painted and still screwed
the outside boxes
and everything here also.

689
00:43:32.743 --> 00:43:34.812
If you look at
some of the early pedals,

690
00:43:34.812 --> 00:43:38.215
Electro-Harmonix, they were big.
Everything was big.

691
00:43:38.215 --> 00:43:42.386
Where MXR for me
was the first company

692
00:43:42.386 --> 00:43:47.958
that made a phase tone
that could fit in the palm of
your hand and in your backpack.

693
00:43:47.958 --> 00:43:51.061
You know, you're not carrying
around this behemoth of a pedal.

694
00:43:51.061 --> 00:43:54.198
[Ron]
The box that we use, the Bud box
was one of the things

695
00:43:54.198 --> 00:43:56.367
that made the product
so different,

696
00:43:56.367 --> 00:43:59.003
because up until this time
effects pedals have been

697
00:43:59.003 --> 00:44:02.272
these little bent metal things
that, you know,
just didn't stand up,

698
00:44:02.272 --> 00:44:04.341
and that's what really
set the company apart.

699
00:44:04.341 --> 00:44:07.645
I know one of the things that
Michael used to do when he'd go,

700
00:44:07.645 --> 00:44:09.680
first time he went to Manny's
in New York,

701
00:44:09.680 --> 00:44:11.849
he basically pulled
the sales guys out
from behind the counter.

702
00:44:11.849 --> 00:44:13.717
He said, "Come out here and
I'll show you something."

703
00:44:13.717 --> 00:44:15.953
Took them out on the street, and
took the Phase 90 and whipped it

704
00:44:15.953 --> 00:44:18.822
like 50 feet up in the air, and
watched it land on the sidewalk

705
00:44:18.822 --> 00:44:21.358
or on the street,
and then picked it up,

706
00:44:21.358 --> 00:44:23.227
took it back in the store
and plugged it in, and said,

707
00:44:23.227 --> 00:44:25.362
"How about that?"
You know, it worked?

708
00:44:25.362 --> 00:44:29.133
You know,
MXR started coming out with all
these different colors, right?

709
00:44:29.133 --> 00:44:32.069
And subconsciously,
especially the young people,

710
00:44:32.069 --> 00:44:35.172
you started identifying the
sound with the colors, you know,

711
00:44:35.172 --> 00:44:37.941
like, even today, if I hear
a certain chorus sound,

712
00:44:37.941 --> 00:44:42.880
it sounds yellow to me
because the MXR stereo chorus
was yellow. [chuckles]

713
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:45.349
And flangers, that sounds,
sounds black to me

714
00:44:45.349 --> 00:44:48.986
because that was the color
of the MXR flange.

715
00:44:48.986 --> 00:44:51.355
You know what I mean?
So they were really smart, man,

716
00:44:51.355 --> 00:44:56.460
to kind of connect,
all these primary
instincts of ours, you know?

717
00:44:56.460 --> 00:44:59.930
The distortion pedals certainly
would be part of someone's sound

718
00:44:59.930 --> 00:45:03.033
so we wanted to come up with
some distortion pedal.

719
00:45:03.033 --> 00:45:05.102
The Distortion + is one
of the first ones.

720
00:45:05.102 --> 00:45:07.838
And Terry, Keith's partner,
had worked at a radio station

721
00:45:07.838 --> 00:45:10.874
and was used to
using compression on vocal mics
and everything.

722
00:45:10.874 --> 00:45:14.211
So we, you know, a compressor,
i.e., our Dyna Comp

723
00:45:14.211 --> 00:45:16.447
became one of our first staples

724
00:45:16.447 --> 00:45:19.183
and so that's what kinda started
the first three
or four products.

725
00:45:19.183 --> 00:45:23.053
[Ron]
It translated over to all of a
sudden all of the major acts

726
00:45:23.053 --> 00:45:26.724
were using MXR pedals
and talking about them.

727
00:45:26.724 --> 00:45:29.259
[Art]
You wouldn't have a lot of the
sounds that Eddie Van Halen got

728
00:45:29.259 --> 00:45:31.495
had it not been for MXR,
for example.

729
00:45:31.495 --> 00:45:35.299
You know, great talents
like he were able to do
with effects like that

730
00:45:35.299 --> 00:45:36.734
really did change the world.

731
00:45:36.734 --> 00:45:40.204
[rock music playing]

732
00:45:40.204 --> 00:45:42.172
[Ron] We moved
to this factory building

733
00:45:42.172 --> 00:45:45.042
and took over more and more
of the factory as it grew.

734
00:45:45.042 --> 00:45:49.379
By the time I left in '79,
it was doing $8,
$9 million a year.

735
00:45:49.379 --> 00:45:51.815
It was a hugely
successful company

736
00:45:51.815 --> 00:45:55.886
from nothing to this company
where we're writing the rules,

737
00:45:55.886 --> 00:45:58.455
we're writing the rules
for, uh, the music industry,

738
00:45:58.455 --> 00:46:00.991
and we're writing the rules
for business
in a lot of respects.

739
00:46:00.991 --> 00:46:03.427
And, uh, an exciting time.

740
00:46:03.427 --> 00:46:06.130
[Albini] In the '70s and '80s,

741
00:46:06.130 --> 00:46:10.033
you would only know about a
special effect of some kind
through its recorded evidence.

742
00:46:10.033 --> 00:46:12.302
Like, you would hear a sound
and say,

743
00:46:12.302 --> 00:46:14.138
oh, I wonder how they did
that sound.

744
00:46:14.138 --> 00:46:16.373
And then you'd have to do
reading in magazines

745
00:46:16.373 --> 00:46:18.942
and hope that he was asked
a question

746
00:46:18.942 --> 00:46:21.378
about how he made that sound and
then he would spill the beans.

747
00:46:21.378 --> 00:46:23.947
It was kind of like the Wild
West for a little bit.

748
00:46:23.947 --> 00:46:27.117
You,
if you didn't have something
that did what you wanted,

749
00:46:27.117 --> 00:46:29.820
you... you find somebody that
knew how to tinker with stuff

750
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:32.089
and they would just build
something crazy.

751
00:46:32.089 --> 00:46:35.425
[Dweezil]
You know, like when Peter
Frampton would use the talk box

752
00:46:35.425 --> 00:46:37.294
on Frampton Comes Alive!

753
00:46:37.294 --> 00:46:40.097
that sort of sparked
an awareness of that sound.

754
00:46:40.097 --> 00:46:41.965
It made people realize
that was possible,

755
00:46:41.965 --> 00:46:43.867
and then you started
to hear that more and more.

756
00:46:43.867 --> 00:46:47.004
[Peter]
I had become friends
with, uh, George.

757
00:46:47.004 --> 00:46:50.974
He calls me up. He said,
"I'm doing a solo album.

758
00:46:50.974 --> 00:46:53.343
I'd like you to come and play
some acoustic with me."

759
00:46:53.343 --> 00:46:57.481
So one day George says,
"Well, this pedal is still late

760
00:46:57.481 --> 00:46:59.883
coming in from Nashville,
you know?"

761
00:46:59.883 --> 00:47:01.485
I said, "Oh, wow, that's great."

762
00:47:01.485 --> 00:47:04.188
Then I realized he was on
Nashville Skyline.

763
00:47:04.188 --> 00:47:08.025
And every other country record
you can think of

764
00:47:08.025 --> 00:47:10.093
is Pete Drake just about.

765
00:47:10.093 --> 00:47:13.897
And he set up his pedal steel
and then we did a few tracks.

766
00:47:13.897 --> 00:47:17.568
And then in a slow moment
between tracks or something,

767
00:47:17.568 --> 00:47:21.004
he started to get this...
this little box out

768
00:47:21.004 --> 00:47:23.941
and put it on the edge
of the pedal steel,

769
00:47:23.941 --> 00:47:27.878
and is plugging something in
here and another wire in there.

770
00:47:27.878 --> 00:47:29.847
And then he got this tube out

771
00:47:29.847 --> 00:47:33.984
and put the tube in his mouth
and he said, "Check this out."

772
00:47:33.984 --> 00:47:37.521
And he just goes, I am a guitar.

773
00:47:37.521 --> 00:47:39.990
["I'm just a guitar" playing]

774
00:47:59.643 --> 00:48:04.181
I just went that sound
I've been hearing up here

775
00:48:04.181 --> 00:48:07.918
ever since I heard the station
Radio Luxembourg in Europe

776
00:48:07.918 --> 00:48:09.887
that would broadcast to,
to England.

777
00:48:09.887 --> 00:48:15.592
♪ Radio Luxembourg, 208 ♪

778
00:48:15.592 --> 00:48:19.596
So when Pete Drake does this,
I go, it's full circle.

779
00:48:19.596 --> 00:48:22.199
There it is. There's that sound.

780
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:25.469
And I said, where...
where do I get one of these?

781
00:48:25.469 --> 00:48:27.571
And he said,
"Well, I made this one myself,"

782
00:48:27.571 --> 00:48:33.043
and Joe Walsh was
lent that talk box that I saw

783
00:48:33.043 --> 00:48:36.613
by Pete Drake to do "Rocky
Mountain Way". It's that one.

784
00:48:36.613 --> 00:48:42.019
And then I guess Bob Heil
saw it, and it's very quiet.

785
00:48:42.019 --> 00:48:44.288
So Joe, obviously said,

786
00:48:44.288 --> 00:48:50.027
"Why don't you make another one?
You know. And I'm sure
that's what happened.

787
00:48:50.027 --> 00:48:53.096
And Bob Heil made him one,
you know,

788
00:48:53.096 --> 00:48:55.299
and then that became
the Heil talk box

789
00:48:55.299 --> 00:48:59.569
that I then got given by
Bob Heil for Christmas one year.

790
00:48:59.569 --> 00:49:02.005
And that's
when I started using it.

791
00:49:02.005 --> 00:49:05.943
["Show Me The Way"
by Peter Frampton playing]

792
00:49:16.987 --> 00:49:21.258
It was if, you know,
somebody lit a firecracker
on everybody's ass.

793
00:49:21.258 --> 00:49:23.126
They all just jumped up out of
their out of their seats

794
00:49:23.126 --> 00:49:24.962
and the girls were
all screaming.

795
00:49:24.962 --> 00:49:29.166
It's just a fantastic moment
that a sound like that

796
00:49:29.166 --> 00:49:31.601
would just excite the audience
so much.

797
00:49:32.602 --> 00:49:34.404
[Art]
The development of stomp box

798
00:49:34.404 --> 00:49:36.306
has kind of mirrored
the development of rock.

799
00:49:36.306 --> 00:49:39.443
Jeff Beck, and Jimmy Page,
and The Beatles

800
00:49:39.443 --> 00:49:42.512
and The Rolling Stones
didn't really have a playbook.

801
00:49:42.512 --> 00:49:46.216
You can't just sit down
and say that
you're gonna invent something.

802
00:49:46.216 --> 00:49:47.651
It's probably not gonna happen.

803
00:49:47.651 --> 00:49:50.387
It has to come in a,
in an organic manner.

804
00:49:51.254 --> 00:49:54.524
[Josh]
An Asian company invents
the Bucket-Brigade chip set.

805
00:49:54.524 --> 00:49:57.361
They see Roland, who's making
all these synthesizers

806
00:49:57.361 --> 00:50:01.098
and guitar pedals, they said,
"Hey, we have a new technology.

807
00:50:01.098 --> 00:50:03.567
We want you to be
the first to use it."

808
00:50:03.567 --> 00:50:07.304
And Roland puts it
in a new guitar amp

809
00:50:07.304 --> 00:50:09.539
and they call it
the Jazz Chorus.

810
00:50:09.539 --> 00:50:12.275
And that guitar amp
has two speakers,

811
00:50:12.275 --> 00:50:15.178
and they made it move
like a rotary cabinet.

812
00:50:15.178 --> 00:50:18.315
So the Bucket-Brigade chip
is put in that amp.

813
00:50:18.315 --> 00:50:20.484
They just pull it out of the
amp and put it in a pedal.

814
00:50:20.484 --> 00:50:24.021
[distorted music playing]

815
00:50:33.096 --> 00:50:36.466
[Josh] You take the chorus,
which is a short delay,

816
00:50:36.466 --> 00:50:38.769
so if you blend the clean signal
and its chorus,

817
00:50:38.769 --> 00:50:42.672
if you take all clean signal
out of a Bucket-Brigade,
it's vibrato.

818
00:50:42.672 --> 00:50:45.208
And then another Bucket-Brigade
comes along, and another,

819
00:50:45.208 --> 00:50:48.045
and you can do longer times,
and you end up with...

820
00:50:48.045 --> 00:50:49.579
[grunts]

821
00:50:49.579 --> 00:50:54.351
And you use a Bucket-Brigade
to replicate tape echo.

822
00:50:54.351 --> 00:50:58.055
Some of the earliest effects
in the studio were just

823
00:50:58.055 --> 00:51:00.557
repurposing conventional
studio stuff,

824
00:51:00.557 --> 00:51:02.759
and that's how the
earliest slap echos were made.

825
00:51:02.759 --> 00:51:06.063
Like the Sun Studio's
famous slap echo effect

826
00:51:06.063 --> 00:51:09.332
was just a regeneration
on a monotape machine.

827
00:51:09.332 --> 00:51:11.568
[Andy]
So we owe a lot to the
Bucket-Brigade device

828
00:51:11.568 --> 00:51:13.670
because that meant you didn't
have to worry

829
00:51:13.670 --> 00:51:15.639
about cleaning your tape heads
anymore,

830
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:17.474
or getting your
Echoplex serviced.

831
00:51:17.474 --> 00:51:19.242
The Bucket-Brigade changes
everything

832
00:51:19.242 --> 00:51:23.246
because it led to
the Memory Man.

833
00:51:23.246 --> 00:51:27.384
[mellow music playing]

834
00:51:34.858 --> 00:51:37.661
Well, what's funny about it
is it's really horrible.

835
00:51:37.661 --> 00:51:40.664
It's like...
[imitating Memory Man sound]

836
00:51:40.664 --> 00:51:42.532
You know, just...
it's degrading,

837
00:51:42.532 --> 00:51:45.335
but it's magical 'cause there's
a little bit of unpredictability

838
00:51:45.335 --> 00:51:47.237
just like
the germanium transistor.

839
00:51:47.237 --> 00:51:52.342
We love the... we love the
unnatural unpredictability.

840
00:51:52.342 --> 00:51:56.346
We like things to be a little
off so the Bucket-Brigade
is a little off.

841
00:51:56.346 --> 00:51:58.615
[David]
You think about someone like
The Edge, you know,

842
00:51:58.615 --> 00:52:03.487
you hear a U2 song and
if you turn off all the effects,

843
00:52:03.487 --> 00:52:06.289
it's like he's, you're just
playing like a couple of notes

844
00:52:06.289 --> 00:52:08.558
and it's probably
not a great riff.

845
00:52:08.558 --> 00:52:10.694
You put all those effects on,

846
00:52:10.694 --> 00:52:12.829
and all of a sudden,
you're filling up an arena.

847
00:52:12.829 --> 00:52:15.365
You're filling up a stadium
with a wall of sound,

848
00:52:15.365 --> 00:52:19.202
you know, effects, and
the dynamics, and the intensity,

849
00:52:19.202 --> 00:52:21.838
and sometimes make the song.

850
00:52:21.838 --> 00:52:25.342
In the '70s, you started seeing
like mass-produced pedals.

851
00:52:25.342 --> 00:52:28.612
You started seeing bifurcation
of musical forms.

852
00:52:28.612 --> 00:52:30.847
You had Kraftwerk on one side,
you had disco on another,

853
00:52:30.847 --> 00:52:33.416
and you had classic rock,
things happening.

854
00:52:33.416 --> 00:52:36.286
So there was a lot of...
of movement going on

855
00:52:36.286 --> 00:52:38.855
and music was really exploding
at that point

856
00:52:38.855 --> 00:52:41.525
because the baby boomers
now had disposable income.

857
00:52:41.525 --> 00:52:44.561
So that's when you started
seeing companies

858
00:52:44.561 --> 00:52:46.863
manufacturing pedals
in... in quantities.

859
00:52:46.863 --> 00:52:49.466
We also... we were the first
in the... in the world

860
00:52:49.466 --> 00:52:52.402
with the low cost flanger,
the Electric Mistress,

861
00:52:52.402 --> 00:52:56.373
the first with a low cost echo
unit, the very early Memory Man,

862
00:52:56.373 --> 00:52:57.941
the first with a cheap
digital delay,

863
00:52:57.941 --> 00:53:00.277
which was a two second
digital delay.

864
00:53:00.277 --> 00:53:03.947
We were the first with low cost
samplers, uh, Instant Replay.

865
00:53:03.947 --> 00:53:06.216
[Beigel]
And that was about the time

866
00:53:06.216 --> 00:53:10.420
that I had Mike Matthew's
picture on the center
of a dartboard.

867
00:53:10.420 --> 00:53:13.190
[laughs]
How could he do it?

868
00:53:13.190 --> 00:53:16.626
You know, he was making
these boxes

869
00:53:16.626 --> 00:53:20.230
which would often fall
apart as soon as they were made,

870
00:53:20.230 --> 00:53:24.568
beating us through the market
with our own designs,
we thought,

871
00:53:24.568 --> 00:53:29.439
and just generally outpacing us.

872
00:53:29.439 --> 00:53:31.808
There were a lot of effects
that were coming out like crazy.

873
00:53:31.808 --> 00:53:34.244
When I was doing sessions in LA,

874
00:53:34.244 --> 00:53:36.413
these guys were coming in
with pedal boards
and he had tons of stuff.

875
00:53:36.413 --> 00:53:39.549
[Andy]
Early on, you saw the old pedal
boards built by Cornish,

876
00:53:39.549 --> 00:53:44.788
you know, for Andy Summers, and
David Gilmour, and Jimmy Page,
and it was just very bare bones.

877
00:53:44.788 --> 00:53:47.757
Basically, take the pedal out of
its enclosure, put it in there,

878
00:53:47.757 --> 00:53:51.328
make it reliable,
make it lasts for the tour.

879
00:53:51.328 --> 00:53:55.232
[Adrian]
Pete Cornish had very similar
beginnings to Roger Mayer

880
00:53:55.232 --> 00:54:00.237
in that his electronics career
started
with the British military.

881
00:54:00.237 --> 00:54:05.575
He moved to Sound City in London
fixing the biggest stars'

882
00:54:05.575 --> 00:54:08.878
equipment, modifying it,
improving it.

883
00:54:08.878 --> 00:54:11.648
It was in Covent Garden
in London

884
00:54:11.648 --> 00:54:17.487
where he started to branch out
and make custom pedal boards
for artists.

885
00:54:17.487 --> 00:54:20.724
And essentially, Pete Cornish
became the go-to guy

886
00:54:20.724 --> 00:54:24.661
for ensuring massive
touring artists' gear

887
00:54:24.661 --> 00:54:27.530
no matter whereabouts
in the world the artist was.

888
00:54:27.530 --> 00:54:31.735
They got repeatability
and consistency
from Pete Cornish rig.

889
00:54:31.735 --> 00:54:35.939
[Anthony]
With the advent of prog rock on,
you're hearing those long,

890
00:54:35.939 --> 00:54:40.043
sustained, sweets,
melodic sounds

891
00:54:40.043 --> 00:54:43.546
as opposed to the... the rock
sounds we had in the late '60s,

892
00:54:43.546 --> 00:54:46.983
and the pedal definitely moved
with the times.

893
00:54:46.983 --> 00:54:49.853
I was pretty wild by
when I started to come through

894
00:54:49.853 --> 00:54:52.455
the history of pedals
was David Gilmour.

895
00:54:52.455 --> 00:54:54.924
There's so many effects
if you look into them.

896
00:54:54.924 --> 00:54:57.927
It's just like the name
that is attached to them
first is David Gilmour.

897
00:54:57.927 --> 00:55:00.597
[Andrew]
If you listen to Pink Floyd
recordings,

898
00:55:00.597 --> 00:55:04.467
you're not gonna be like
hearing effects all the time
'cause it's subtle.

899
00:55:04.467 --> 00:55:09.005
You have a song,
you wanna enhance what the song
is trying to tell you.

900
00:55:09.005 --> 00:55:13.076
And if the effects
are not doing that, then
you're using it the wrong way.

901
00:55:13.076 --> 00:55:16.946
[Gilbert]
Alex Lifeson, Alex, you know,
they, they would build effects

902
00:55:16.946 --> 00:55:19.849
into the songs like Anthem
where it goes...

903
00:55:19.849 --> 00:55:22.752
[imitating guitar playing]

904
00:55:23.887 --> 00:55:25.889
You know, that was,
that was the hook of...

905
00:55:25.889 --> 00:55:28.425
of Anthem was a
was an analog delay.

906
00:55:28.425 --> 00:55:30.827
[Vai]
Brian May was a master,

907
00:55:30.827 --> 00:55:34.397
and his use of delays
was the first time

908
00:55:34.397 --> 00:55:37.567
I heard somebody do something
really musical with them.

909
00:55:37.567 --> 00:55:40.603
[NelSteve Howe, uh,
and Robert Fripp.

910
00:55:40.603 --> 00:55:42.505
Steve Hackett, too, in Genesis.

911
00:55:42.505 --> 00:55:44.841
These progressive rock guys,
so-called,

912
00:55:44.841 --> 00:55:48.812
they're the ones that I think
that really started developing,

913
00:55:48.812 --> 00:55:51.815
uh, a wider palette of
expression on the guitar,

914
00:55:51.815 --> 00:55:55.719
and were able to introduce
the idea of guitar being, uh,

915
00:55:55.719 --> 00:55:57.854
something that didn't always
have to sound like a guitar.

916
00:55:57.854 --> 00:56:00.390
It makes you look at your music
a little differently.

917
00:56:00.390 --> 00:56:02.025
And next thing you know,

918
00:56:02.025 --> 00:56:04.461
you're writing down the road map
with some more creativity.

919
00:56:04.461 --> 00:56:08.498
[rock music playing]

920
00:56:14.070 --> 00:56:17.907
The colors that you can get,
man, really changed the music.

921
00:56:17.907 --> 00:56:19.943
There's certain pieces of music

922
00:56:19.943 --> 00:56:23.646
that would not be the same
without the effect.

923
00:56:24.581 --> 00:56:29.686
Exhibiting at the NAMM shows in,
uh, about 1976 on,

924
00:56:29.686 --> 00:56:34.457
we began to notice Japanese
folks coming around to our booth
and taking pictures,

925
00:56:34.457 --> 00:56:37.627
and of course, other booths
are taking pictures.

926
00:56:37.627 --> 00:56:42.065
And then you have
a brand new thing
which had not quite happened.

927
00:56:42.065 --> 00:56:47.537
You have large group of Japanese
pedal makers and companies

928
00:56:47.537 --> 00:56:49.406
coming... coming out of the
woodworks.

929
00:56:49.406 --> 00:56:53.009
The founder of Roland, uh,
his name is Ikutaro Kakehashi

930
00:56:53.009 --> 00:56:56.813
and Mr. Kakehashi founded
Roland in 1972.

931
00:56:56.813 --> 00:57:00.450
He started a little, a subset
of Roland called MEG.

932
00:57:00.450 --> 00:57:05.622
He had assigned them
some products to make
specifically small, simple,

933
00:57:05.622 --> 00:57:08.491
easy to use products
focused mainly on guitars.

934
00:57:08.491 --> 00:57:11.594
Tom Beckmen was the president
of Roland US,

935
00:57:11.594 --> 00:57:15.732
and he simultaneously
was also interested
in making some kind of products

936
00:57:15.732 --> 00:57:18.168
so he made a product called
The BOSS.

937
00:57:18.168 --> 00:57:21.838
Mr. Kakehashi said,
"Oh, The BOSS. I like that.

938
00:57:21.838 --> 00:57:25.508
Can we use that name?"
Of course. Mr. Beckman said,
"Please use it."

939
00:57:25.508 --> 00:57:28.111
[Marcus]
And that's when they made
the switch over to BOSS,

940
00:57:28.111 --> 00:57:31.915
and it was like a radical change
because the chassis all look a
little bit dissimilar.

941
00:57:31.915 --> 00:57:33.683
They all looked like
different products.

942
00:57:33.683 --> 00:57:35.518
And we went to the BOSS pedal,

943
00:57:35.518 --> 00:57:37.921
the compact pedal
that we know right now.

944
00:57:37.921 --> 00:57:40.457
It was like a radical change.
It was like really cool
industrial design.

945
00:57:40.457 --> 00:57:43.159
[Andy]
The BOSS pedals,
when they came out in the '70s,

946
00:57:43.159 --> 00:57:45.695
that's that, I mean, that's it.

947
00:57:45.695 --> 00:57:49.666
We all use BOSS 9-volt power
supply, you know, like
they standardized everything.

948
00:57:49.666 --> 00:57:51.835
They made these indestructible
units.

949
00:57:51.835 --> 00:57:54.204
[Marcus] You started hearing
about the BOSS pedals,

950
00:57:54.204 --> 00:57:57.240
and a lot of guitar players were
walking around with this whole
BOSS carrying cases.

951
00:57:57.240 --> 00:57:59.242
[man 6]
The funny thing about BOSS is,

952
00:57:59.242 --> 00:58:02.579
you look on any pro pedalboard,
there's always a BOSS pedal.

953
00:58:02.579 --> 00:58:05.048
[man 7]
One company, the same enclosure,

954
00:58:05.048 --> 00:58:09.152
it just says what it is, chorus,
distortion, overdraft,
and they're colorful.

955
00:58:09.152 --> 00:58:14.157
And you just look at the ad and
you feel like that does it all.
I'm not looking anywhere else.

956
00:58:14.157 --> 00:58:16.559
[Chris] With this particular
pedal, this design,

957
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:19.929
you just press down and under
this little screw in the back

958
00:58:19.929 --> 00:58:22.999
and the battery was available
to be put in it in here.

959
00:58:22.999 --> 00:58:26.002
The other thing was, is that
this whole surface was part of
the pedal.

960
00:58:26.002 --> 00:58:28.171
So, well, typically,
when you use the pedal

961
00:58:28.171 --> 00:58:29.973
and you just need to
click on a little button,

962
00:58:29.973 --> 00:58:33.009
it goes click,
and this is silent switching.

963
00:58:33.009 --> 00:58:37.146
It would actually make no sound
within the circuit
so that was neat.

964
00:58:37.146 --> 00:58:42.819
This one people die for, OD-1.
This is... They call
it the magic box.

965
00:58:42.819 --> 00:58:44.988
The 1970s, they introduced
the op-amp

966
00:58:44.988 --> 00:58:50.527
which allows for kind of
almost more sequential operation

967
00:58:50.527 --> 00:58:53.162
in terms of the current flow,
where you have guitar

968
00:58:53.162 --> 00:58:57.767
hits op-amp then gets EQ'ed
and then sent out.

969
00:58:57.767 --> 00:59:00.637
[Andy]
The great thing about the op-amp
was that you can get a sound

970
00:59:00.637 --> 00:59:02.672
that sounded like you're amping
cranked up.

971
00:59:02.672 --> 00:59:05.074
And, you know, at that time,
in the mid to late '70s,

972
00:59:05.074 --> 00:59:07.777
you still had a lot of
non-master volume amplifiers

973
00:59:07.777 --> 00:59:10.580
so you hear the sound man
saying, turn it down,

974
00:59:10.580 --> 00:59:14.651
you then look to another thing,
like a pedal,
to get that overdriven sound.

975
00:59:14.651 --> 00:59:18.187
[Josh]
The ProCo Rat, MXR Distortion +,
the DOD 250,

976
00:59:18.187 --> 00:59:20.223
the Guyatone ZOOM BOX,

977
00:59:20.223 --> 00:59:23.159
and you basically have this host
of brand new distortion pedals

978
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:27.764
come out within three years
in the late '70s, '78,

979
00:59:27.764 --> 00:59:31.801
this new idea
of overdrive soft clipping

980
00:59:31.801 --> 00:59:35.772
so the OD-1 turns
into the TS-808.

981
00:59:35.772 --> 00:59:38.741
[heavy distortion playing]

982
00:59:38.741 --> 00:59:42.245
BOSS had a patent on the
asymmetric clipping so Ibanez,

983
00:59:42.245 --> 00:59:44.747
um, did symmetric clipping,
which is actually smoother,

984
00:59:44.747 --> 00:59:47.684
which, um,
a lot of people prefer.

985
00:59:47.684 --> 00:59:50.954
And the Tube Screamer was just,
I don't know if it was dumb luck
or what,

986
00:59:50.954 --> 00:59:54.023
but it was very well tuned
and it just works really well

987
00:59:54.023 --> 00:59:59.696
for people using Stratocasters
and Fender amps.
It just warms them up.

988
00:59:59.696 --> 01:00:03.967
Gives you the sustain, gives you
some distortion mixing,
well, easier to play.

989
01:00:03.967 --> 01:00:06.069
And it also cuts through
the bands really well.

990
01:00:06.069 --> 01:00:08.605
With a lot of amplifiers,
when you crank them up,

991
01:00:08.605 --> 01:00:10.840
they start getting tubby
in the bottom. It gets flabby.

992
01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:12.208
It gets in the way of the bass
player,

993
01:00:12.208 --> 01:00:13.843
and Tube Screamer fixes
all that stuff

994
01:00:13.843 --> 01:00:16.746
so it's kind of
a magic little pedal.

995
01:00:16.746 --> 01:00:21.651
Almost every genre of music,
there's somebody you'll find has
used the Tube Screamer, right?

996
01:00:21.651 --> 01:00:24.387
I mean, early Metallica stuff,
that's a Tube Screamer.

997
01:00:24.387 --> 01:00:28.291
You know, most people say, well,
you have a Stevie Ray Vaughan,
Tube Screamer,

998
01:00:28.291 --> 01:00:30.326
but people wouldn't think
Metallica.

999
01:00:30.326 --> 01:00:32.829
That is one of those pedals
that was around early enough.

1000
01:00:32.829 --> 01:00:35.832
It did something that not
many other pedals did.

1001
01:00:35.832 --> 01:00:40.103
[Matthew]
'Cause people like BOSS,
Pearl, uh, Maxon, Ibanez,

1002
01:00:40.103 --> 01:00:42.071
because the manufacturing costs
were so low,

1003
01:00:42.071 --> 01:00:45.742
they were able to out-compete
Keith Barr and the guys at MXR,

1004
01:00:45.742 --> 01:00:48.111
and out-compete Mike Matthews.

1005
01:00:48.111 --> 01:00:50.780
[mellow music playing]

1006
01:00:50.780 --> 01:00:54.017
[Anthony]
The Japanese BOSS pedal
killed the first box.

1007
01:00:54.017 --> 01:00:57.920
These things looked like
dinosaurs, and
everyone turned around and said,

1008
01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:01.157
heck, I don't want big, stupid,
Fuzz Box anymore.

1009
01:01:01.157 --> 01:01:05.294
We want the new BOSS, you know,
OD-1 DS-1, and they were great.

1010
01:01:05.294 --> 01:01:09.766
I was using it, you know,
myself. Even I thought
Tone Bender was dated.

1011
01:01:09.766 --> 01:01:12.969
[mellow music playing]

1012
01:01:12.969 --> 01:01:19.142
[Josh]
In the '80s, you have massive
technology advancement.

1013
01:01:19.142 --> 01:01:22.278
You see this with computers
and technology in general.

1014
01:01:22.278 --> 01:01:25.348
You see
like the first cell phones,
and weird stuff like that

1015
01:01:25.348 --> 01:01:28.818
so all of that pours into
the guitar world.

1016
01:01:28.818 --> 01:01:33.156
The technology worldwide ends
up being applied to guitar.

1017
01:01:33.156 --> 01:01:38.094
So you have these problems
where people are trying
to do the next step,

1018
01:01:38.094 --> 01:01:40.697
but they can't find
the building block yet.

1019
01:01:40.697 --> 01:01:44.701
[rock music playing]

1020
01:02:10.493 --> 01:02:13.463
[Adrian] The 1980s is known
as a decade of excess.

1021
01:02:13.463 --> 01:02:16.365
Essentially, the music industry
was no different

1022
01:02:16.365 --> 01:02:23.172
to, uh, glam metal, spandex,
massive amplifier stacks,
massive hair,

1023
01:02:23.172 --> 01:02:28.411
even bigger shoulder boards,
um, and huge pointy guitars.

1024
01:02:28.411 --> 01:02:32.415
From an effects
pedal perspective,
things shifted as well.

1025
01:02:32.415 --> 01:02:37.153
Despite the influx of all the
Japanese manufacturers,

1026
01:02:37.153 --> 01:02:43.025
the trend moved towards
to these massive
refrigerator-sized rack units.

1027
01:02:43.025 --> 01:02:45.027
[Scott] In the '60s,
you're getting fuzzes,

1028
01:02:45.027 --> 01:02:48.831
you're getting an accident
turned into a... a thing.

1029
01:02:48.831 --> 01:02:52.168
And then in the '70s, all these
effect types just erupt.

1030
01:02:52.168 --> 01:02:55.238
And then in the '80s things
kind of stalled for a moment.

1031
01:02:55.238 --> 01:02:58.441
[David] Well, I think
in the '80s, everything got
a lot more digital.

1032
01:02:58.441 --> 01:03:03.246
And so in the studio, I think
there were a lot of different
processors and harmonizers

1033
01:03:03.246 --> 01:03:05.815
that people in all genres of
music were using,

1034
01:03:05.815 --> 01:03:08.885
whether it was hair metal, or
pop, or hip hop, or whatever.

1035
01:03:08.885 --> 01:03:12.388
[Phillipe]
In the '80s, they got silly.
They used big racks.

1036
01:03:12.388 --> 01:03:15.124
They go out of control
with a lot of the stuff.

1037
01:03:15.124 --> 01:03:17.527
They start to wander
into total paradox of choice

1038
01:03:17.527 --> 01:03:21.097
where people have
a million sounds,
and none of them sound good.

1039
01:03:21.097 --> 01:03:22.832
You know, you'd go into a
recording studio

1040
01:03:22.832 --> 01:03:24.567
and play straight guitar.

1041
01:03:24.567 --> 01:03:26.936
And then an engineer would
add chorus after you left.

1042
01:03:26.936 --> 01:03:31.407
At that time, it was basically
one effect per rack.

1043
01:03:31.407 --> 01:03:33.309
When I was touring with like
Dave Roth,

1044
01:03:33.309 --> 01:03:37.380
this was really before these
multi effects units,

1045
01:03:37.380 --> 01:03:40.483
I had the equivalent of three
giant refrigerators

1046
01:03:40.483 --> 01:03:42.518
filled with gear,
and that was my rig.

1047
01:03:42.518 --> 01:03:45.388
[Lisa]    Many of us got bit
with the Rockman bug.

1048
01:03:45.388 --> 01:03:48.491
I fell in love
with the Scholz stuff.

1049
01:03:48.491 --> 01:03:51.294
Tom Scholz is kind of the
ultimate DIY guy,

1050
01:03:51.294 --> 01:03:54.263
super intelligent guy,
amazing guitar player,

1051
01:03:54.263 --> 01:03:57.066
you know, basically made a lot
of his own equipment.

1052
01:03:57.066 --> 01:03:58.467
[Art]
There was a natural tendency

1053
01:03:58.467 --> 01:04:00.970
to kind of ditch pedals
for a while.

1054
01:04:00.970 --> 01:04:05.408
You wound up filling a rack
with all these sound producing
effects.

1055
01:04:05.408 --> 01:04:09.278
Eventually you wind up
with a signal
that's coming out the other end

1056
01:04:09.278 --> 01:04:12.014
and it's kind of not
what you wanted.

1057
01:04:12.014 --> 01:04:14.050
It's over-processed,
if you will.

1058
01:04:14.050 --> 01:04:16.319
[Andy]
I mean, we're at a point
where we weren't ready

1059
01:04:16.319 --> 01:04:18.087
for a lot of those
digital effects,

1060
01:04:18.087 --> 01:04:20.256
you know, the technology
wasn't there

1061
01:04:20.256 --> 01:04:24.160
so it's a lot of those
sterile sounding delays
and reverbs came from that era.

1062
01:04:24.160 --> 01:04:26.162
For me, it seemed cumbersome

1063
01:04:26.162 --> 01:04:29.465
as an improviser to have
to scroll through parameters

1064
01:04:29.465 --> 01:04:32.468
to make the simplest change
in volume or tone.

1065
01:04:32.468 --> 01:04:37.640
I like the immediacy
of what's now become
known as the stomp box.

1066
01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:41.544
[Art]
They started to realize
that the sounds were more alive

1067
01:04:41.544 --> 01:04:44.146
and were more tangible
through pedals on the floor

1068
01:04:44.146 --> 01:04:47.550
than they were through
scads of rack-mounted effects.

1069
01:04:47.550 --> 01:04:52.488
[Josh]
At the same time BOSS, I think,
is the most significant story.

1070
01:04:52.488 --> 01:04:55.458
BOSS and Ibanez
kind of owned the '80s.

1071
01:04:55.458 --> 01:04:59.528
BOSS invents, you know, the
first ever compact analog delay,

1072
01:04:59.528 --> 01:05:04.600
the DM-2, the first ever
compact digital delay, the DD-2.

1073
01:05:04.600 --> 01:05:09.005
[Andy]
It's a huge milestone with BOSS
and their digital delay.

1074
01:05:09.005 --> 01:05:13.976
This is the first time that
you can have clear repeats that
sounded like that tape echo.

1075
01:05:13.976 --> 01:05:18.614
It has a huge frequency range,
and it's in this tiny box.

1076
01:05:18.614 --> 01:05:20.316
I mean, we have BOSS
to thank for that.

1077
01:05:20.316 --> 01:05:24.053
And they've continued that
same DD series to today.

1078
01:05:24.053 --> 01:05:26.289
[Gilbert]
We had the great honor of
playing on The Tonight Show,

1079
01:05:26.289 --> 01:05:28.190
you know,
back when that meant something.

1080
01:05:28.190 --> 01:05:30.192
And we did a Mr. Big Tune called
"Just Take My Heart,"

1081
01:05:30.192 --> 01:05:32.995
which has like ultimate clean
sound at the beginning.

1082
01:05:32.995 --> 01:05:35.164
And I remember the guy
from Ibanez going, like,

1083
01:05:35.164 --> 01:05:37.400
how did you get that sound?
Oh, the clean sound
was unbelievable.

1084
01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:40.336
Like, a couple of BOSS pedals
and my blind control.

1085
01:05:40.336 --> 01:05:43.039
[Josh]
I went to a sound check
with The Cure.

1086
01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:45.541
I walked up to Robert
Smith's guitar rig.

1087
01:05:45.541 --> 01:05:47.343
I'm just looking down,
and it's like,

1088
01:05:47.343 --> 01:05:52.014
the original plastic BOSS
boards, one here, one here

1089
01:05:52.014 --> 01:05:54.350
follow the lead lines
back to the amps.

1090
01:05:54.350 --> 01:05:58.087
And it's like, there are like a
BOSS chorus pedal gaff taped

1091
01:05:58.087 --> 01:06:00.189
to the amp with the knobs
on, always on.

1092
01:06:00.189 --> 01:06:02.558
And it's just like
he needs nothing else.

1093
01:06:02.558 --> 01:06:04.393
Anything that I'm listening to,

1094
01:06:04.393 --> 01:06:08.664
I immediately kind of
want to uncover that mystery

1095
01:06:08.664 --> 01:06:11.400
of what makes that sound,
sound like that.

1096
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:14.503
Prince was another big one who
just always played BOSS pedal

1097
01:06:14.503 --> 01:06:18.174
so I was like, well, maybe
I just need to play BOSS pedals,
maybe that will work.

1098
01:06:18.174 --> 01:06:20.409
[Ron] Went to work for Roland
and inherited the BOSS line

1099
01:06:20.409 --> 01:06:22.979
which became MXR's
biggest competitor.

1100
01:06:22.979 --> 01:06:25.648
And Roland grew from literally
a million dollars a year.

1101
01:06:25.648 --> 01:06:30.619
By the time I left Roland,
it was a $125 million a year
company in the USA.

1102
01:06:30.619 --> 01:06:33.155
The guys at MXR
didn't like that very much

1103
01:06:33.155 --> 01:06:37.393
because they were suffering
at the same time that I went
and did well at Roland.

1104
01:06:37.393 --> 01:06:39.695
BOSS was the pedal champion
in the '80s

1105
01:06:39.695 --> 01:06:44.200
because, what, in 1983,
Electro-Harmonix was run out
of business by the unions.

1106
01:06:44.200 --> 01:06:47.603
In 1984, MXR collapsed
because of whatever reason.

1107
01:06:47.603 --> 01:06:51.407
So floodgates opened and the
Japanese pedals became dominant

1108
01:06:51.407 --> 01:06:53.743
because they were made
really well

1109
01:06:53.743 --> 01:06:58.414
and the only real American
competition was DOD,
and... and maybe Ross.

1110
01:06:58.414 --> 01:07:00.549
[man 8]
You have Ibanez and BOSS,

1111
01:07:00.549 --> 01:07:03.085
and distribution
is everything then,

1112
01:07:03.085 --> 01:07:07.089
and Ibanez decides
to stop distribution
and go direct to dealers,

1113
01:07:07.089 --> 01:07:09.425
and it left this gaping hole.

1114
01:07:09.425 --> 01:07:12.528
And a company called Arion
steps in,
and they're widely distributed.

1115
01:07:12.528 --> 01:07:18.401
So you have this first glance
of like mass-produced
plastic Japanese pedals,

1116
01:07:18.401 --> 01:07:20.036
which is some
of the coolest pedals.

1117
01:07:20.036 --> 01:07:22.271
[Lisa] When I discovered
the Arion line

1118
01:07:22.271 --> 01:07:25.474
and then some BOSS stuff,
you know, in the '80s,

1119
01:07:25.474 --> 01:07:30.179
you know, it was affordable
to actually be able to add some
effects to your signal path.

1120
01:07:30.179 --> 01:07:32.415
[Josh]
Reverberation developed
in the studios,

1121
01:07:32.415 --> 01:07:34.517
and this is anything
from chamber reverb,

1122
01:07:34.517 --> 01:07:37.486
where you have speakers at
one end and a mic at the other,

1123
01:07:37.486 --> 01:07:41.624
and just picking up the natural
acoustics of that room
to plate reverb.

1124
01:07:41.624 --> 01:07:44.060
Again, a massive piece
of machinery.

1125
01:07:44.060 --> 01:07:46.562
It did go down in size
with spring reverb,

1126
01:07:46.562 --> 01:07:51.834
but again, you really didn't
have reverb in pedal form
for quite some time.

1127
01:07:51.834 --> 01:07:55.738
1985, two are released.
They're the first ever
reverb pedals,

1128
01:07:55.738 --> 01:07:59.275
but they're actually really
horrible Bucket-Brigade delays.

1129
01:07:59.275 --> 01:08:02.778
I think it's the DOD FX45
and the Arion reverb.

1130
01:08:02.778 --> 01:08:08.117
I mean, the DOD FX45
when they released it,
they were first,

1131
01:08:08.117 --> 01:08:11.320
but it was so bad that DOD
never made another reverb.

1132
01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:14.490
So they like gave up, they're
like, this is it, we're out.

1133
01:08:14.490 --> 01:08:18.227
[AndSo in the '80s,
obviously you had digital reverb
at your fingertips,

1134
01:08:18.227 --> 01:08:20.563
or at least over
in your refrigerator rig.

1135
01:08:20.563 --> 01:08:22.231
[Josh]
Something starts happening

1136
01:08:22.231 --> 01:08:24.567
and it's the technology
of effects,

1137
01:08:24.567 --> 01:08:28.204
and these new sounds
created new forms of music.

1138
01:08:28.204 --> 01:08:32.408
All the post-punk stuff,
from the UK particularly,

1139
01:08:32.408 --> 01:08:35.711
you know, that from
The Cure to the Siouxsie and
the Banshees, Killing Joke,

1140
01:08:35.711 --> 01:08:39.448
there was a lot of really cool
guitar stuff happening,
you know?

1141
01:08:39.448 --> 01:08:42.518
[AndThat actually did spawn
all new sounds and music,

1142
01:08:42.518 --> 01:08:46.422
especially, you know,
reverse reverb and things
you couldn't really get before.

1143
01:08:46.422 --> 01:08:51.127
["Loveless"
by My Bloody Valentine playing]

1144
01:08:58.300 --> 01:09:00.669
[Kevin] And from Bill, this was
like, you got to use my guitars,

1145
01:09:00.669 --> 01:09:02.538
and one of them
was a Jazzmaster.

1146
01:09:02.538 --> 01:09:05.741
And I picked it up
and started to strum it

1147
01:09:05.741 --> 01:09:08.277
and go, wow, this is cool,
you know,

1148
01:09:08.277 --> 01:09:14.283
and I put it through, um,
a reverse reverb and
then thought that sounds good.

1149
01:09:14.283 --> 01:09:15.885
And I thought,
oh, turn the tone down.

1150
01:09:15.885 --> 01:09:18.220
I said, wow, it sounds totally
like some weird tape,

1151
01:09:18.220 --> 01:09:20.256
sort of copy of a copy,
of a copy, of a copy.

1152
01:09:20.256 --> 01:09:22.424
And then it was playing fast

1153
01:09:22.424 --> 01:09:25.561
and sort of bending the tremolo
already going this way
going hmm, hmm, hmm.

1154
01:09:39.508 --> 01:09:41.477
[man 9] Kevin Shields
was really the first

1155
01:09:41.477 --> 01:09:44.413
and only person using
a tremolo arm on a guitar

1156
01:09:44.413 --> 01:09:48.184
to make a psychedelic wall of
sound no one had heard before.

1157
01:09:48.184 --> 01:09:50.686
And it's a common misconception

1158
01:09:50.686 --> 01:09:53.622
that he used a lot of effects
on those records
because he actually didn't.

1159
01:09:53.622 --> 01:09:57.359
But the influence
that that sound had
on a generation of new groups

1160
01:09:57.359 --> 01:09:59.728
looking for their own sound
is massive.

1161
01:09:59.728 --> 01:10:03.732
And many of these new groups
turn to effects pedals
to create their sound.

1162
01:10:03.732 --> 01:10:05.935
[Lance] Taking a lot
of the same instrumentation

1163
01:10:05.935 --> 01:10:08.671
that you find
in traditional rock music,

1164
01:10:08.671 --> 01:10:12.408
but using them
in a non-traditional fashion

1165
01:10:12.408 --> 01:10:16.412
to build those
atmospheric soundscapes,

1166
01:10:16.412 --> 01:10:19.515
I can't make it sound
like I'm in a canyon

1167
01:10:19.515 --> 01:10:22.251
with just plugging
my guitar into an amp.

1168
01:10:22.251 --> 01:10:27.256
[man 10] But you see companies
like BOSS, you see DigiTech,

1169
01:10:27.256 --> 01:10:33.462
you see this digital world
become kind of tangible
in... in the late '80s,

1170
01:10:33.462 --> 01:10:36.332
like the Whammy
is a cool example

1171
01:10:36.332 --> 01:10:40.369
of just like putting your foot
on that and throwing your note,
uh, like that's really weird.

1172
01:10:40.369 --> 01:10:43.239
I mean, obviously
the Whammy pedal
is really well-known

1173
01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:46.675
because of, uh, Tom Morello
and Rage Against the Machine
and all that.

1174
01:10:46.675 --> 01:10:48.911
[Albini]
There are some musicians

1175
01:10:48.911 --> 01:10:51.547
who use the Whammy
as an expressive part
of their playing,

1176
01:10:51.547 --> 01:10:55.517
and they literally can't play
some of their riffs if the
Whammy pedal doesn't work.

1177
01:10:55.517 --> 01:11:00.789
[rock music playing]

1178
01:11:07.763 --> 01:11:10.633
It's gonna... it's gonna
inspire you to do something

1179
01:11:10.633 --> 01:11:12.801
that you wouldn't do
if you didn't have it.

1180
01:11:12.801 --> 01:11:18.941
The evolution of technology gave
us new pieces to the puzzle,

1181
01:11:18.941 --> 01:11:22.711
and we were able
to create sounds
that had never been heard.

1182
01:11:25.347 --> 01:11:29.718
[Craig]    I think what maybe
caused the resurgence
of the boutique pedals

1183
01:11:29.718 --> 01:11:33.422
was the dissatisfaction
with a lot of the early
digital effects.

1184
01:11:33.422 --> 01:11:36.925
Digital had not reached
the level of sophistication
that it has now.

1185
01:11:36.925 --> 01:11:41.664
And so you just could not get
that "analog sound."

1186
01:11:41.664 --> 01:11:43.999
[Andrew] I was always unhappy
with the overdrives

1187
01:11:43.999 --> 01:11:47.670
and... and distortions that
were available at that time.

1188
01:11:47.670 --> 01:11:51.006
I just wanted to have
that nice amp sound,
but at a lower volume

1189
01:11:51.006 --> 01:11:53.942
so you don't have to crank it up
and everybody's complaining.

1190
01:11:53.942 --> 01:11:56.979
And then I developed
this product further and further

1191
01:11:56.979 --> 01:12:01.050
until I got to the point that
the first SansAmp was born.

1192
01:12:01.050 --> 01:12:04.586
I must be like
one of the first guys
because, like, in '89,

1193
01:12:04.586 --> 01:12:07.956
I built the first pieces
in my kitchen in Manhattan.

1194
01:12:07.956 --> 01:12:11.393
And I took it down to Sam Ash
and I showed it to them.
It was like $300.

1195
01:12:11.393 --> 01:12:13.929
And they laughed first
because it was so expensive.

1196
01:12:13.929 --> 01:12:15.964
They've never seen a pedal
that expensive.

1197
01:12:15.964 --> 01:12:18.901
But I said like, "Please, please
just take it as a consignment.

1198
01:12:18.901 --> 01:12:20.803
If you can't sell it,
I'll take it back.

1199
01:12:20.803 --> 01:12:22.838
If you sell it, I'll just,
you know, bring more."

1200
01:12:22.838 --> 01:12:25.574
They sold it the next day
to Def Leppard.

1201
01:12:25.574 --> 01:12:28.043
[man 11]
Maybe there was a disgust

1202
01:12:28.043 --> 01:12:32.348
with the big feeling
of some of the companies,
the marketing, the saturation.

1203
01:12:32.348 --> 01:12:37.486
I think it, in a lot of ways,
parallels hair metal and grunge.

1204
01:12:37.486 --> 01:12:42.958
Hair metal, all that stuff,
was just absolutely crushed
by grunge and alternative music.

1205
01:12:42.958 --> 01:12:47.029
And I think that was
a main force in... in people
using pedals again,

1206
01:12:47.029 --> 01:12:50.366
and you saw bands
like Sonic Youth and Nirvana

1207
01:12:50.366 --> 01:12:54.403
just going back to these pedals
that were just secondhand.

1208
01:12:54.403 --> 01:12:57.005
[BlakAnd I feel like the '90s
kind of blew the doors
after that.

1209
01:12:57.005 --> 01:12:58.874
Kurt Cobain stepped on a DS-1.

1210
01:12:58.874 --> 01:13:01.143
Everyone's like,
"Oh, wait, that's pretty cool."

1211
01:13:01.143 --> 01:13:04.513
"What are... what are all those
little boxes he's kicking
around on stage?"

1212
01:13:04.513 --> 01:13:06.515
[man 12]
That's a very simple solution

1213
01:13:06.515 --> 01:13:07.983
to how do you make
the chorus sound bigger

1214
01:13:07.983 --> 01:13:10.519
is you just blow it up
with a Fuzz Tone.

1215
01:13:10.519 --> 01:13:13.789
[Kevin] Sonic Youth actually
really mastered that back
in those days.

1216
01:13:13.789 --> 01:13:15.891
You know, they were doing bits
where they go to nothing

1217
01:13:15.891 --> 01:13:18.927
and then just go, bang,
you know what I mean?

1218
01:13:18.927 --> 01:13:22.798
There were people who could
craft that more dynamically

1219
01:13:22.798 --> 01:13:26.435
and make it more expressive
like Dinosaur is probably
the... the best example.

1220
01:13:26.435 --> 01:13:28.704
Other people of this generation

1221
01:13:28.704 --> 01:13:30.906
would think of the effects
pedals as kind of
an afterthought.

1222
01:13:30.906 --> 01:13:34.176
And he thought
of those layers of distortion

1223
01:13:34.176 --> 01:13:36.779
as fundamental voices
for his instrument.

1224
01:13:36.779 --> 01:13:39.047
I think it's the end section
of "The Lung".

1225
01:13:39.047 --> 01:13:41.150
I listened to it
over and over again.

1226
01:13:41.150 --> 01:13:44.119
The different sort of dynamics
at the end,

1227
01:13:44.119 --> 01:13:46.555
and the different... there's
a variety of pedal coming in,

1228
01:13:46.555 --> 01:13:48.157
the fuzz, and the wah-wah,

1229
01:13:48.157 --> 01:13:50.592
and it go round, and round, and
round, you know the bit I mean?

1230
01:13:50.592 --> 01:13:53.729
J Mascis was blowing
my flipping mind.

1231
01:13:53.729 --> 01:13:57.466
[rock music playing]

1232
01:14:16.752 --> 01:14:18.520
[J Mascis]    Um, when I was
learning to play guitar,

1233
01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:21.523
I was learning to play effects
at the same time,

1234
01:14:21.523 --> 01:14:25.027
like, you know,
I wanted the effects
as part of playing guitar.

1235
01:14:25.027 --> 01:14:28.197
So I was kinda... it was all I
was kinda all doing it at once,

1236
01:14:28.197 --> 01:14:31.500
and I got this Deluxe Big Muff,

1237
01:14:31.500 --> 01:14:34.236
and I had the Electric Mistress,
and then I got a Wah-Wah.

1238
01:14:34.236 --> 01:14:38.574
I mean, I knew I liked fuzz
in for sure, and the noise,

1239
01:14:38.574 --> 01:14:41.677
and, um, I didn't ever
understood subtle effects

1240
01:14:41.677 --> 01:14:43.712
like, oh, this is transparent.

1241
01:14:43.712 --> 01:14:46.682
Or it was like,
why would you turn it on then?

1242
01:14:46.682 --> 01:14:48.851
You know,
I don't understand what's that.

1243
01:14:49.852 --> 01:14:51.753
That always baffled me.

1244
01:14:51.753 --> 01:14:55.224
Back in the '90s, there wasn't
this big craze for vintage gear.

1245
01:14:55.224 --> 01:14:59.194
It was just, you know,
you had Thurston Moore
grabbing an old Big Muff.

1246
01:14:59.194 --> 01:15:02.564
And Billy Corgan using this
Big Muff from a decade before.

1247
01:15:02.564 --> 01:15:04.566
It wasn't about the mystique
of the gear.

1248
01:15:04.566 --> 01:15:06.969
It was just using the tools
that were available at the time.

1249
01:15:06.969 --> 01:15:08.937
[Billy] There was a band that
we were friends with, Catherine.

1250
01:15:08.937 --> 01:15:11.773
They were all using Big Muff,
all three guitar players
had Big Muff.

1251
01:15:11.773 --> 01:15:15.544
and there was the sound
in the room and it was like,
what is that sound?

1252
01:15:15.544 --> 01:15:16.945
"Oh, it's this pedal."

1253
01:15:16.945 --> 01:15:22.150
There was nothing
like I read it in a magazine
and I went and got the pedal.

1254
01:15:22.150 --> 01:15:25.787
I mean, we literally went
somewhere, found the pedal
for 75 bucks.

1255
01:15:25.787 --> 01:15:27.089
So, yeah, we went out
and got them.

1256
01:15:27.089 --> 01:15:28.991
We started rehearsing with them

1257
01:15:28.991 --> 01:15:31.026
and then that became sort of the
"Siamese Dream" sort of sound.

1258
01:15:31.026 --> 01:15:33.262
And then even
when we did the album,

1259
01:15:33.262 --> 01:15:35.864
and I told Butch Vig that
this is the sound that I wanted.

1260
01:15:35.864 --> 01:15:37.299
He was like, there's no way.

1261
01:15:37.299 --> 01:15:39.801
And then don't forget,
I was stacking,

1262
01:15:39.801 --> 01:15:44.573
like, in some cases,
as many as six rhythm tracks
so it was a lot to handle.

1263
01:15:44.573 --> 01:15:48.043
It killed all the cymbals,
but that's the sound
of that record.

1264
01:15:48.043 --> 01:15:51.547
[rock music playing]

1265
01:16:04.893 --> 01:16:07.329
It was kind of like what we
liked about My Bloody Valentine,

1266
01:16:07.329 --> 01:16:09.665
the sort of the shoegazer thing,

1267
01:16:09.665 --> 01:16:12.901
but it was like
as if Black Sabbath was melded
with a shoegazer band,

1268
01:16:12.901 --> 01:16:15.938
and suddenly, we're getting
this kind of warping feeling.

1269
01:16:15.938 --> 01:16:19.174
There's a now defunct
music store that used to be
in San Francisco,

1270
01:16:19.174 --> 01:16:22.044
and I remember going in there
one time looking for Big Muffs.

1271
01:16:22.044 --> 01:16:24.813
I asked the guy how much it was
and he named some crazy price.

1272
01:16:24.813 --> 01:16:28.717
And I kind of did one of these,
and he said,
"Well, it's your fault."

1273
01:16:28.717 --> 01:16:31.653
[Andy] Another great example
is Graham Coxon from Blur.

1274
01:16:31.653 --> 01:16:33.689
You know, he... that
he grabbed that Shin-ei fuzz

1275
01:16:33.689 --> 01:16:36.692
and, you know, use that
for the solo for Coffee & TV

1276
01:16:36.692 --> 01:16:40.262
just because it was probably
something that was,
uh, cool looking

1277
01:16:40.262 --> 01:16:43.231
and it sounded, you know,
unruly and it did the job.

1278
01:16:43.231 --> 01:16:46.702
It wasn't that, uh, he read
about, you know,
other artists that used it,

1279
01:16:46.702 --> 01:16:48.770
and he used what was available
at the time.

1280
01:16:48.770 --> 01:16:51.239
[rock music playing]

1281
01:16:59.047 --> 01:17:01.350
[Graham] I never really
studied up on anything.

1282
01:17:01.350 --> 01:17:03.919
There was no YouTube.
There was...
there was no person saying,

1283
01:17:03.919 --> 01:17:08.056
well, how does
this distortion pedal clean up
if you back up the volume?

1284
01:17:08.056 --> 01:17:09.958
There was none of that.
I didn't know any of that stuff.

1285
01:17:09.958 --> 01:17:13.996
["13" by Blur playing]

1286
01:17:20.802 --> 01:17:25.073
That, you know, it was just,
you know, and then pressing

1287
01:17:25.073 --> 01:17:28.777
and then go and I'll put it
there and then pressing some,
you know,

1288
01:17:28.777 --> 01:17:30.679
and that's how it went
all the way through.

1289
01:17:30.679 --> 01:17:33.181
And it was just sort of... it
was just to earmark that section

1290
01:17:33.181 --> 01:17:36.918
as a... as a solo section
or an instrumental section.

1291
01:17:36.918 --> 01:17:39.221
And I said, that would be fine.
Let's go on to the next thing.

1292
01:17:39.221 --> 01:17:41.757
And that was one
where it was like a hat trick.

1293
01:17:41.757 --> 01:17:43.425
There was tons of good goals
in that.

1294
01:17:43.425 --> 01:17:47.996
And then sometimes, at other
times, it's utter rubbish, so...

1295
01:17:47.996 --> 01:17:52.300
You couldn't find
a good analog pedal
really in... in the '90s

1296
01:17:52.300 --> 01:17:55.270
other than, you know, Ibanez was
still making some good stuff.

1297
01:17:55.270 --> 01:17:57.205
I don't really know
what changed,

1298
01:17:57.205 --> 01:18:00.676
but people started wanting to go
for more organic tones again.

1299
01:18:00.676 --> 01:18:05.347
I think after, you know,
almost a decade of everybody
has the BOSS pedals,

1300
01:18:05.347 --> 01:18:09.217
that's all they have, you really
wanted something different.

1301
01:18:09.217 --> 01:18:12.254
And when you saw
the Full-Drive ad, you bought it

1302
01:18:12.254 --> 01:18:14.856
'cause like your friends
didn't have it.

1303
01:18:14.856 --> 01:18:20.162
That is the beginning
of this whole thing maybe,
the guitar pedal craze.

1304
01:18:20.162 --> 01:18:23.699
[rock music playing]

1305
01:18:36.912 --> 01:18:39.214
[Blake]
Mike Fuller runs Fulltone

1306
01:18:39.214 --> 01:18:43.151
which is, I mean, I think
everyone has OCD at this point
or has had an OCD.

1307
01:18:43.151 --> 01:18:45.454
This guy starts the company
in '91.

1308
01:18:45.454 --> 01:18:51.126
And in '96 he found his ticket.
This is a Full-Drive 2.

1309
01:18:51.126 --> 01:18:54.162
This is, uh, serial number 171,

1310
01:18:54.162 --> 01:18:58.233
February of 1996, label maker.

1311
01:18:58.233 --> 01:19:03.739
Uh, story goVintage Guitar
magazine talks about this,
kind of blew his business up.

1312
01:19:03.739 --> 01:19:07.209
I think he's sold 80 billion
of these.

1313
01:19:07.209 --> 01:19:09.845
They're currently
in outer space.

1314
01:19:09.845 --> 01:19:11.747
[man 13]
At the time of pre-internet,

1315
01:19:11.747 --> 01:19:13.849
vintage effects were really hard
to come by,

1316
01:19:13.849 --> 01:19:16.151
and we saw the music scene
coming around

1317
01:19:16.151 --> 01:19:19.254
where musicians
were again interested
in those vintage tones.

1318
01:19:19.254 --> 01:19:22.324
So Mike really used
this as inspiration,

1319
01:19:22.324 --> 01:19:25.360
and was really into bringing
back some of those
collectible items,

1320
01:19:25.360 --> 01:19:27.996
but also add an element

1321
01:19:27.996 --> 01:19:30.465
that wasn't really there
on the first time around,
and that's reliability.

1322
01:19:30.465 --> 01:19:34.770
[rock music playing]

1323
01:19:41.376 --> 01:19:43.879
[Jeorge] I moved to LA in '91

1324
01:19:43.879 --> 01:19:47.349
and for whatever reason
was not really wanting to go
to school,

1325
01:19:47.349 --> 01:19:49.050
[laughs]

1326
01:19:49.050 --> 01:19:50.418
hanging out on all
the guitar stores in Hollywood,

1327
01:19:50.418 --> 01:19:53.355
and just started messing
with pedals

1328
01:19:53.355 --> 01:19:57.292
and broke out a book
of the Electronic Projects
for Musicians.

1329
01:19:57.292 --> 01:19:59.294
The reason
I started building pedals

1330
01:19:59.294 --> 01:20:02.898
is because I had a Foxx Tone
Machine that was a tin can,

1331
01:20:02.898 --> 01:20:05.233
and I was afraid
it was just gonna crumble.

1332
01:20:05.233 --> 01:20:07.035
That's what made me
start doing it

1333
01:20:07.035 --> 01:20:09.971
because stuff would break,
and I hated that.

1334
01:20:09.971 --> 01:20:13.008
This would be
the first Piercing Moose.

1335
01:20:13.008 --> 01:20:15.977
This was pretty early on.
It would be '92 as well.

1336
01:20:15.977 --> 01:20:19.047
This is the first pedal I did
a, uh, a H circuit board.

1337
01:20:19.047 --> 01:20:21.817
I did in a bathtub
at home in Hollywood.

1338
01:20:21.817 --> 01:20:24.186
It's my clone
of my Foxx Tone Machine.

1339
01:20:24.186 --> 01:20:27.122
[rock music playing]

1340
01:20:36.464 --> 01:20:40.035
[man 14] And I was hanging out
at Amp Crazy and, uh, Voltage,

1341
01:20:40.035 --> 01:20:42.838
and Mike Fuller worked over
at Voltage at the time.

1342
01:20:42.838 --> 01:20:44.406
And I was bringing pedals in,

1343
01:20:44.406 --> 01:20:46.942
and trying to work
on this stuff and learn.

1344
01:20:46.942 --> 01:20:49.911
And it was just,
there was no like,
oh, I wanna be a pedal maker.

1345
01:20:49.911 --> 01:20:52.848
Like, what I would really
consider boutique
that was sort of happening

1346
01:20:52.848 --> 01:20:56.418
to me, it really starts
with Jack Brossart
of Prescription Electronics.

1347
01:20:56.418 --> 01:21:00.889
And, somewhere, I may still have
the cassette tape demo
of the Experience pedal.

1348
01:21:01.556 --> 01:21:04.860
[rock music playing]

1349
01:21:16.037 --> 01:21:19.941
And it actually sort of sounds
like the amps are blowing up,

1350
01:21:19.941 --> 01:21:24.212
and it has an octave in there
so it's a fuzz and octave.

1351
01:21:24.212 --> 01:21:26.882
[rock music playing]

1352
01:21:31.353 --> 01:21:33.154
[man 15] It was like
an instant Hendrix album.

1353
01:21:33.154 --> 01:21:35.156
They had the whole line,
those vintage effects.

1354
01:21:35.156 --> 01:21:37.392
They brought them back.
They had a Tone Bender.

1355
01:21:37.392 --> 01:21:40.228
They had
a Colorsound Overdriver,
you know, an octave pedal.

1356
01:21:40.228 --> 01:21:45.600
And I think, you know, sadly,
he kind of stopped right before
that major wave came.

1357
01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:48.236
There started to be people

1358
01:21:48.236 --> 01:21:51.973
who kind of like... I feel like
pushed that stuff like way into
the future with like Lovetone,

1359
01:21:51.973 --> 01:21:54.409
where it just seemed
like I can't afford that,

1360
01:21:54.409 --> 01:21:58.613
but that looks
like the most insane thing
that I've ever heard or seen.

1361
01:21:58.613 --> 01:22:01.149
[J Mascis]
I got all of their stuff.

1362
01:22:01.149 --> 01:22:06.488
That's probably the first real
boutique brand that I remember.

1363
01:22:06.488 --> 01:22:10.558
[Albini]
Lovetone is a British company.
They're idiosyncratic,

1364
01:22:10.558 --> 01:22:15.030
like, he ignored the convention
of using the BOSS connector
for power,

1365
01:22:15.030 --> 01:22:19.067
and he uses an eighth plug
connector for power.

1366
01:22:19.067 --> 01:22:23.038
It would have made his life
and his users' lives
a lot easier if he didn't,

1367
01:22:23.038 --> 01:22:26.207
but he stuck to it for some
reasons that I don't understand.

1368
01:22:26.207 --> 01:22:29.444
[rock music playing]

1369
01:22:33.281 --> 01:22:36.418
His pedals are
exceedingly comprehensive.

1370
01:22:36.418 --> 01:22:40.188
He sold them individually
to people who wanted them.

1371
01:22:40.188 --> 01:22:42.557
He did not try to market them
as products.

1372
01:22:42.557 --> 01:22:45.160
Like if you wanted to buy
his pedals,

1373
01:22:45.160 --> 01:22:47.529
he would come and meet you,
and talk to you,
and show you the pedals.

1374
01:22:47.529 --> 01:22:49.698
And if you like them,
you could buy them from him.

1375
01:22:49.698 --> 01:22:53.368
You couldn't just go to a shop
and have them order them,
you know?

1376
01:22:53.368 --> 01:22:57.339
What it did for
the pedal industry,
it gave people permission.

1377
01:22:57.339 --> 01:23:00.308
It gave Zachary Vex permission
to do crazy stuff.

1378
01:23:00.308 --> 01:23:04.512
This is electricity with
Mr. Youngreen, A+;

1379
01:23:04.512 --> 01:23:07.983
Electronics One
with Mr. Youngreen, A+.

1380
01:23:07.983 --> 01:23:10.752
I was a technician
and doing semiconductor
manufacturing.

1381
01:23:10.752 --> 01:23:14.689
And when I got laid off
from that job in 1984,

1382
01:23:14.689 --> 01:23:17.425
I had started
a recording studio,

1383
01:23:17.425 --> 01:23:21.363
and I continued working
as an independent recording
engineer and producer until 1995

1384
01:23:21.363 --> 01:23:24.099
when I started Z.Vex Effects
at my kitchen table.

1385
01:23:24.099 --> 01:23:26.234
And I built my first pedal,
the Octane,

1386
01:23:26.234 --> 01:23:29.671
and I brought it into, uh,
Willie's American Guitars.

1387
01:23:29.671 --> 01:23:31.139
I said, "How much
should I charge you?"

1388
01:23:31.139 --> 01:23:32.774
And he goes,
"Whatever you want."

1389
01:23:32.774 --> 01:23:34.776
So I asked him what his most
expensive pedals were,

1390
01:23:34.776 --> 01:23:36.745
and he showed me
the Fulltone Full-Drive.

1391
01:23:36.745 --> 01:23:39.080
And I said, well, I wanna make
it more expensive than that.

1392
01:23:39.080 --> 01:23:41.783
So I wanted to be the most
expensive pedals in the shop.

1393
01:23:41.783 --> 01:23:45.120
November came in 1995 and
I had sold 16 of those Octanes,

1394
01:23:45.120 --> 01:23:47.455
and I brought in
a couple of them to, uh, Nate

1395
01:23:47.455 --> 01:23:49.124
and I said, "Hey,
you need any more of those?"

1396
01:23:49.124 --> 01:23:51.126
And he goes, "No, we've sold
as many of those we can sell."

1397
01:23:51.126 --> 01:23:53.194
Make me a new pedal
and he walked away.

1398
01:23:53.194 --> 01:23:54.562
So I designed this,
I stayed up all night.

1399
01:23:54.562 --> 01:23:56.197
This is the original
Fuzz Factory.

1400
01:23:57.799 --> 01:24:01.336
[rock music playing]

1401
01:24:07.409 --> 01:24:09.044
Fuzz Factory.

1402
01:24:29.564 --> 01:24:33.268
I got turned on
to some pedals by Henry Kaiser,

1403
01:24:33.268 --> 01:24:35.737
and I remember plugging it
in and saying to him,

1404
01:24:35.737 --> 01:24:40.475
"Henry, I cannot use this
on your session.
This... this thing is insane."

1405
01:24:40.475 --> 01:24:43.611
In the back of my mind,
I was thinking, but I like it,
you know?

1406
01:24:43.611 --> 01:24:45.647
I just I don't know
what I'm gonna do with it.

1407
01:24:45.647 --> 01:24:47.816
[Joel]    It's a crazy pedal.

1408
01:24:47.816 --> 01:24:53.254
Nobody, I don't think that
was part of a larger company,

1409
01:24:53.254 --> 01:24:55.423
would release
something like that.

1410
01:24:55.423 --> 01:25:01.262
It just was such a cool kind
of fun, totally, you know,
odd ball effect.

1411
01:25:01.262 --> 01:25:03.765
And you would get someone
to like hand paint them.

1412
01:25:03.765 --> 01:25:07.435
[BlakI always forget
how early Zachary Vex was to it

1413
01:25:07.435 --> 01:25:12.140
'cause in my mind I discovered
him, you know, through Muse
like a lot of people did.

1414
01:25:12.140 --> 01:25:14.876
[man 16] Matt Bellamy
started putting Fuzz Factory

1415
01:25:14.876 --> 01:25:17.412
into his guitars
through Mansons UK,

1416
01:25:17.412 --> 01:25:19.481
and people would watch him
twisting the knobs.

1417
01:25:19.481 --> 01:25:22.350
So now my pedal
was up off the floor.

1418
01:25:22.350 --> 01:25:25.286
[man 17] There's not a pedal
builder out there that hasn't
looked at the Fuzz Factory

1419
01:25:25.286 --> 01:25:27.722
and men like took a Fuzz Face
and did this,

1420
01:25:27.722 --> 01:25:32.160
or, you know, the boutique era
would not be what it is
without Zachary Vex.

1421
01:25:32.160 --> 01:25:34.829
What's interesting is back
in the '90s there was,

1422
01:25:34.829 --> 01:25:38.266
I think, only one I could think
of female pedal builder

1423
01:25:38.266 --> 01:25:40.635
and that's
Fran Blanche, Frantone.

1424
01:25:40.635 --> 01:25:43.571
[Fran]    We, uh, spent, uh,
about six months

1425
01:25:43.571 --> 01:25:47.175
and many thousands of dollars
building a prototype.

1426
01:25:47.175 --> 01:25:49.811
I learned everything that
you never are supposed to do

1427
01:25:49.811 --> 01:25:52.647
in a pedal business
in those first eight months

1428
01:25:52.647 --> 01:25:53.882
because we did everything wrong,

1429
01:25:53.882 --> 01:25:55.617
and we... we wasted
so much money.

1430
01:25:55.617 --> 01:25:57.652
The product
was exactly what I wanted,

1431
01:25:57.652 --> 01:26:00.555
but it was just
un-manufacturable.

1432
01:26:00.555 --> 01:26:03.191
Everything was done
through catalog

1433
01:26:03.191 --> 01:26:06.227
so if you wanted parts,
you sent out for catalogs
from price distributors.

1434
01:26:06.227 --> 01:26:10.565
It would take you months
or, you know,
a year to prototype a product

1435
01:26:10.565 --> 01:26:12.300
that today
you might do in weeks.

1436
01:26:12.300 --> 01:26:14.536
Instead of making
everything custom

1437
01:26:14.536 --> 01:26:18.339
when, you know, off the shelf
with the hand box
and got powder-coated

1438
01:26:18.339 --> 01:26:23.278
and, you know, just everything
kind of made it affordable
as a product,

1439
01:26:23.278 --> 01:26:24.779
and that became Hep Cat.

1440
01:26:25.680 --> 01:26:27.749
So when I did
the Williamsburg factory,

1441
01:26:27.749 --> 01:26:29.717
I wanted to do everything
under one roof.

1442
01:26:29.717 --> 01:26:32.487
So I was making my own circuit
boards from raw copper clad,

1443
01:26:32.487 --> 01:26:36.324
stock, drilling, filling,
did my own machining,

1444
01:26:36.324 --> 01:26:38.793
did my own coding,
did my own silk screening,

1445
01:26:38.793 --> 01:26:41.729
everything top-down
was done in-house.

1446
01:26:41.729 --> 01:26:45.366
I could come up with an idea,
develop it,

1447
01:26:45.366 --> 01:26:48.303
make a product out of it,
and have it out to market.

1448
01:26:48.303 --> 01:26:50.405
I can practically
in no time at all.

1449
01:26:50.405 --> 01:26:53.308
Now, when we started out
in the '90s,

1450
01:26:53.308 --> 01:26:56.544
I mean, you had
print publications
which you had to advertise in.

1451
01:26:56.544 --> 01:27:00.481
You had to go to the NAMM show
to get the dealers,

1452
01:27:00.481 --> 01:27:02.317
and then you have
brick-and-mortar stores

1453
01:27:02.317 --> 01:27:05.320
that did your selling,
and that was the structure.

1454
01:27:05.320 --> 01:27:11.759
And it's crazy to think
that people bought a pedal
from an ad in like one paper.

1455
01:27:11.759 --> 01:27:14.395
There was nothing.

1456
01:27:14.395 --> 01:27:17.699
And I think through the '90s,
the internet, you know,
you see Mike Fuller

1457
01:27:17.699 --> 01:27:21.269
and you see something happening
in a website start.

1458
01:27:21.269 --> 01:27:23.671
[Zachary] When Fulltone,
you know, got set up
with his website,

1459
01:27:23.671 --> 01:27:26.274
I went on his website
and I looked at every single
store he was selling at,

1460
01:27:26.274 --> 01:27:28.276
and I would call up all
of the stores he was selling to

1461
01:27:28.276 --> 01:27:29.744
and go, hey, you sell Fulltone?

1462
01:27:29.744 --> 01:27:31.479
And they go, yeah.

1463
01:27:31.479 --> 01:27:33.381
And I go, you know,
historically every single store

1464
01:27:33.381 --> 01:27:35.450
that sells Fulltone does
really well selling my pedals,

1465
01:27:35.450 --> 01:27:39.420
and I just used that as my pitch
and it worked.

1466
01:27:40.355 --> 01:27:43.625
When we started Frantone,
it was right at the cusp of
the beginning of the internet.

1467
01:27:43.625 --> 01:27:46.427
We were probably like one of
a handful of people in Lancaster

1468
01:27:46.427 --> 01:27:49.030
that had internet in... in '95.

1469
01:27:49.030 --> 01:27:53.668
I set up Frantone.com
so it was like
one of the very first domains.

1470
01:27:53.668 --> 01:27:59.007
[Dave] The barrier to entry
to the pedal world, you know,
was a radio shack.

1471
01:27:59.007 --> 01:28:03.044
And you could buy a box, and few
transistors, and some capacitors

1472
01:28:03.044 --> 01:28:06.948
and... and... and a soldering
iron and start a pedal company,

1473
01:28:06.948 --> 01:28:09.550
even going back a little further

1474
01:28:09.550 --> 01:28:11.586
to the, you know,
the Craig Anderton Electronic
Projects for Musicians

1475
01:28:11.586 --> 01:28:14.555
is where a lot of guys like us
got their start.

1476
01:28:14.555 --> 01:28:16.891
[Craig]    I've been writing
for Popular Electronics,

1477
01:28:16.891 --> 01:28:20.495
and they decided they didn't
want any music-related articles
anymore.

1478
01:28:20.495 --> 01:28:22.630
So I looked around
the magazines,
there was    Guitar Player.

1479
01:28:22.630 --> 01:28:25.633
So I said, "Well, I'll pitch
them on a headphone amp."

1480
01:28:25.633 --> 01:28:28.503
And they were scared to death
that somebody would
like take it into a bathtub

1481
01:28:28.503 --> 01:28:30.405
and electrocute themselves
or something like that.

1482
01:28:30.405 --> 01:28:32.473
And I said, "Well, I'll give you
the schematic for it."

1483
01:28:32.473 --> 01:28:34.409
And they said, "Well,
we have our own art department."

1484
01:28:34.409 --> 01:28:36.444
So they did the schematic,
there was an error on it.

1485
01:28:36.444 --> 01:28:38.446
And that was the best thing
that ever happened in my life

1486
01:28:38.446 --> 01:28:40.581
because they got
300 letters from people

1487
01:28:40.581 --> 01:28:42.617
which ranged from
"I've never built
anything before

1488
01:28:42.617 --> 01:28:44.585
and this doesn't work,
what am I doing wrong" to

1489
01:28:44.585 --> 01:28:46.888
"Hi, I'm the audio engineer
in National Semiconductor,

1490
01:28:46.888 --> 01:28:48.990
and are you aware that there's
a problem with the schematic?"

1491
01:28:48.990 --> 01:28:51.326
And Guitar Player    was like,

1492
01:28:51.326 --> 01:28:53.027
"Oh, my gosh,
people are actually interested
in this stuff."

1493
01:28:53.027 --> 01:28:54.762
And then they said,
"Well, can you write a book?"

1494
01:28:54.762 --> 01:28:57.098
I think the real importance
of that book

1495
01:28:57.098 --> 01:28:59.834
was that it made people aware
that they could do it
themselves,

1496
01:28:59.834 --> 01:29:01.569
that it wasn't some strange
esoteric thing.

1497
01:29:01.569 --> 01:29:03.905
It was like building
a model airplane, get parts,

1498
01:29:03.905 --> 01:29:06.441
you put them into a board,
and you soldered it
and you had a working effect.

1499
01:29:06.441 --> 01:29:07.975
That was the biggest
contribution.

1500
01:29:07.975 --> 01:29:10.445
It was like, well,
this guy can do it, so can I.

1501
01:29:12.013 --> 01:29:13.815
[BriaI think the guys
that I was learning from,

1502
01:29:13.815 --> 01:29:16.551
they grew up
with that Craig Anderton book.

1503
01:29:16.551 --> 01:29:22.724
And there were some other like
underground indie publishing
type of PDFs that were released.

1504
01:29:22.724 --> 01:29:27.128
[man 18] Back in the '90s
there was Usenet
which was kind of a forum.

1505
01:29:27.128 --> 01:29:30.798
There was all kinds
of alt dot guitar effects.

1506
01:29:30.798 --> 01:29:33.401
[man 19] And there's a guy
on there called R.G. Keen.

1507
01:29:33.401 --> 01:29:38.373
And R.G. was one of the pioneers
of putting trace schematics
on the internet.

1508
01:29:38.373 --> 01:29:40.041
[Brian]
I barely graduated high school.

1509
01:29:40.041 --> 01:29:42.977
I didn't go to college, just
read a lot of books, really,

1510
01:29:42.977 --> 01:29:45.546
so I... I started out
on these DIY forums,

1511
01:29:45.546 --> 01:29:50.118
listened to guys like
R.G. Keen, and Jack Orman,
and Mark Hammer,

1512
01:29:50.118 --> 01:29:53.921
and just a bunch of people
who in the DIY pedal community

1513
01:29:53.921 --> 01:29:57.024
are full of knowledge
and willing to share
that knowledge.

1514
01:29:57.024 --> 01:29:59.794
It was a really wild moment.

1515
01:29:59.794 --> 01:30:03.464
The internet is just expanding
and expanding.

1516
01:30:03.464 --> 01:30:08.403
And guys like me
can get on there and learn
how to etch a circuit board.

1517
01:30:08.403 --> 01:30:10.538
I didn't go to school.

1518
01:30:10.538 --> 01:30:14.976
We got on the internet
and we let R.G. Keen teach us
how to do stuff,

1519
01:30:14.976 --> 01:30:20.114
and that caused
a bazillion pedal companies.

1520
01:30:23.017 --> 01:30:25.753
[Piera] When I started this
business, I didn't think
I'd be here this long.

1521
01:30:25.753 --> 01:30:27.922
I thought, you know,
guitar pedals,

1522
01:30:27.922 --> 01:30:29.991
how long are people
gonna want to use these things?

1523
01:30:29.991 --> 01:30:31.859
Are they gonna want to use them
ten years from now?

1524
01:30:31.859 --> 01:30:34.796
And this was in the mid '90s.
I really didn't know.

1525
01:30:34.796 --> 01:30:37.965
There was like the big names
kind of, sort of,
dominated again

1526
01:30:37.965 --> 01:30:40.067
where you've got like BOSS,
and DigiTech,

1527
01:30:40.067 --> 01:30:42.003
and all of these pedal companies
were coming out

1528
01:30:42.003 --> 01:30:44.972
with sort of like the standard
that everyone would get into.

1529
01:30:44.972 --> 01:30:47.775
Then like jumped onto the scene

1530
01:30:47.775 --> 01:30:51.446
some sort of more weirder
things, maybe like Danelectro.

1531
01:30:51.446 --> 01:30:54.115
[man 20] You see legacy
brands reboot in a big way.

1532
01:30:54.115 --> 01:30:57.618
Mike Matthews gets
Electro-Harmonix back in action.

1533
01:30:57.618 --> 01:31:02.023
Uh, Jim Dunlop reboots MXR,
and also the Crybaby, Wah-Wah,

1534
01:31:02.023 --> 01:31:04.525
and so many different
variations,

1535
01:31:04.525 --> 01:31:07.728
and DOD really gets
younger players
excited about their products,

1536
01:31:07.728 --> 01:31:10.031
both the reissues
and the originals,

1537
01:31:10.031 --> 01:31:13.134
all this stuff really just comes
back to the forefront
once again.

1538
01:31:13.134 --> 01:31:17.238
[DaviSo I saw an ad
for something called
the DOD Thrash Master,

1539
01:31:17.238 --> 01:31:20.141
this bright pink pedal.
And I thought,
what is this thing?

1540
01:31:20.141 --> 01:31:23.110
Can I even remotely sound
like one of my idols?

1541
01:31:23.110 --> 01:31:26.080
I remember one of my friends
coming over who was not
a musician at all,

1542
01:31:26.080 --> 01:31:29.851
and I showed him this pink box
and I was like,
this thing is so cool,

1543
01:31:29.851 --> 01:31:34.555
like one of these metal bands,
like a thrash band
and I... and I turned it on.

1544
01:31:34.555 --> 01:31:37.124
And he said, "That's just doing
all the work for you."

1545
01:31:37.124 --> 01:31:39.126
[Piera]
Factories that make pedals,

1546
01:31:39.126 --> 01:31:41.929
the original pedal design
is usually really good.

1547
01:31:41.929 --> 01:31:44.499
But then when it gets
into production,

1548
01:31:44.499 --> 01:31:46.200
they'll tend to use
cheaper parts,

1549
01:31:46.200 --> 01:31:49.070
or the beam counters will change
parts over the years.

1550
01:31:49.070 --> 01:31:52.907
And the pedals sort of drift
away from the original
designer's ideas.

1551
01:31:52.907 --> 01:31:57.979
2000 and 2001, you have the two
biggest pedal modifiers ever.

1552
01:31:57.979 --> 01:32:00.281
Analog Man,
it's pretty significant

1553
01:32:00.281 --> 01:32:04.886
because he was modding
the big box stuff.

1554
01:32:04.886 --> 01:32:06.754
[man 21] Since we don't have
to make a million of these,

1555
01:32:06.754 --> 01:32:09.223
we can find the good parts,
the original parts,

1556
01:32:09.223 --> 01:32:12.026
put the right chip in,
change resistor's capacitors

1557
01:32:12.026 --> 01:32:14.762
to make them sound like they
originally were meant to be.

1558
01:32:14.762 --> 01:32:17.765
[rock music playing]

1559
01:32:29.744 --> 01:32:31.612
Sustained for years.

1560
01:32:31.612 --> 01:32:33.548
I love fuzz pedals.

1561
01:32:33.548 --> 01:32:38.319
Two of my favorites here
are the Analog Man Sun Face.

1562
01:32:38.319 --> 01:32:41.622
One of them is the, uh, NKT 275,

1563
01:32:41.622 --> 01:32:46.260
which is like, uh, an original,
like, 1967 Fuzz Face.

1564
01:32:46.260 --> 01:32:51.999
The Sun Face BC 108
is a blue Fuzz Face

1565
01:32:51.999 --> 01:32:55.102
like, uh, David Gilmour
had Live at Pompeii.

1566
01:32:55.102 --> 01:32:58.339
[rock music playing]

1567
01:33:07.248 --> 01:33:09.884
Echo and fuzz, man, I mean,
you just can't really go wrong.

1568
01:33:09.884 --> 01:33:12.119
[laughs]

1569
01:33:12.119 --> 01:33:15.256
When this got going,
and you think of guys
like Robert Keeley, Analog Man,

1570
01:33:15.256 --> 01:33:19.360
those guys were boutique before
this was even like a thing.

1571
01:33:19.360 --> 01:33:21.963
[Robert] Something I took
from car stereo world,

1572
01:33:21.963 --> 01:33:24.732
and home stereo, and...
and working for other people

1573
01:33:24.732 --> 01:33:28.102
is I'd see that, you know,
they'd have switches
for bass response or whatever.

1574
01:33:28.102 --> 01:33:29.971
I didn't really see
that on pedals

1575
01:33:29.971 --> 01:33:33.774
so that's how I brought
the switches and mods to pedals

1576
01:33:33.774 --> 01:33:37.211
to change the sound of them up
to give people more flexibility.

1577
01:33:37.211 --> 01:33:39.080
[Gilbert]
The Keeley Tube Screamer,

1578
01:33:39.080 --> 01:33:41.849
he put, you know, the standard
foot switch in the middle.

1579
01:33:41.849 --> 01:33:44.785
Is it... this style foot switch,
I was never quite sure
like that. I turn it on.

1580
01:33:44.785 --> 01:33:48.055
I'm like, this is a better
design for human beings

1581
01:33:48.055 --> 01:33:50.257
who want to feel something
go ka-chunk.

1582
01:33:50.257 --> 01:33:52.193
And it sounded great too.

1583
01:33:52.193 --> 01:33:54.095
[man 22]
Uh, Keeley is interesting

1584
01:33:54.095 --> 01:33:57.164
because I saw the way
he grew his business model,

1585
01:33:57.164 --> 01:33:59.266
uh, from just modding
boss pedals

1586
01:33:59.266 --> 01:34:02.303
to coming out with his
own compressor obviously.

1587
01:34:02.303 --> 01:34:05.006
[Robert] My first original one
was called the Katana

1588
01:34:05.006 --> 01:34:09.877
and that one was a... a couple
of fat transistors designed
to sound like tubes.

1589
01:34:09.877 --> 01:34:12.647
That pedal ended up being
picked up by John Mayer.

1590
01:34:12.647 --> 01:34:15.416
And that was the first time
I kind of caught the inkling

1591
01:34:15.416 --> 01:34:19.820
that every part selection
in even a simple design

1592
01:34:19.820 --> 01:34:24.325
like that was, uh, something
that, uh, you can create
some magic with.

1593
01:34:24.325 --> 01:34:29.030
Dealers started contacting me
and saying, "Hey, can you build
a couple of those for my shop?"

1594
01:34:29.030 --> 01:34:34.769
And on it goes till
Guitar Center calls you one day
and wants to place an order too.

1595
01:34:34.769 --> 01:34:37.405
[mellow music playing]

1596
01:34:40.408 --> 01:34:43.711
[Oliver] But I felt like
at some point I kinda hit a wall

1597
01:34:43.711 --> 01:34:46.380
and like sort of
every single sound
that you could possibly get

1598
01:34:46.380 --> 01:34:52.253
so I wanted to just sort of
see what else that nobody else
had ever come up with before.

1599
01:34:52.253 --> 01:34:55.122
But then I wanted to go on
this trip with this girlfriend
to Europe

1600
01:34:55.122 --> 01:34:57.058
and I didn't have any money.

1601
01:34:57.058 --> 01:34:59.894
This was basically
my big idea to make money,

1602
01:34:59.894 --> 01:35:02.396
to go to Europe and backpack
for a month was

1603
01:35:02.396 --> 01:35:05.800
for an effect that nobody
had ever really come out
with before,

1604
01:35:05.800 --> 01:35:07.735
which is like this force
feedback loop.

1605
01:35:07.735 --> 01:35:10.805
And I thought Death By Audio
sounded cool, you know,

1606
01:35:10.805 --> 01:35:14.742
and so I was like, that sounds
cool, Total Sonic Annihilation.

1607
01:35:14.742 --> 01:35:19.113
[rock music playing]

1608
01:35:27.788 --> 01:35:30.758
I think like a month
before we were set to leave,

1609
01:35:30.758 --> 01:35:33.427
you know, sold like 30 of them
or something.

1610
01:35:33.427 --> 01:35:37.164
And so that was enough
to go on that trip.

1611
01:35:37.164 --> 01:35:40.401
My first experience with
Death By Audio was giant pedals,

1612
01:35:40.401 --> 01:35:44.772
maybe with only one or two knobs
and totally DIY.

1613
01:35:44.772 --> 01:35:49.810
That was pretty bold because
at that point you had really
professional looking, slick,

1614
01:35:49.810 --> 01:35:52.279
you know, companies up
until that point.

1615
01:35:52.279 --> 01:35:55.282
I could recognize
like all these art on those,

1616
01:35:55.282 --> 01:35:57.218
like that's
like '90s punk rock flyers.

1617
01:35:57.218 --> 01:36:00.121
I was like, oh, you can,
I can put these things together

1618
01:36:00.121 --> 01:36:02.156
so that was like
a big influence.

1619
01:36:02.156 --> 01:36:05.760
Anyone will come up with
any crazy idea, or awesome,

1620
01:36:05.760 --> 01:36:08.095
or stupid, or whatever idea,
send it to me,

1621
01:36:08.095 --> 01:36:11.165
and I would just give them
a quote of how much
I would build it for.

1622
01:36:11.165 --> 01:36:14.535
And then, and I even had no idea
how to build it,

1623
01:36:14.535 --> 01:36:16.804
then we'll just figure it out.

1624
01:36:17.772 --> 01:36:21.842
[man 23] So in 2003-'4,
the forums started appearing

1625
01:36:21.842 --> 01:36:24.145
like Harmony Central
and things like that.

1626
01:36:24.145 --> 01:36:26.814
I saw that lots of people were
building, you know,
effects pedals.

1627
01:36:26.814 --> 01:36:30.918
People like Wampler,
and Jamie at EarthQuaker
and stuff like that,

1628
01:36:30.918 --> 01:36:33.788
and Catalinbread, they all
started up around that time.

1629
01:36:33.788 --> 01:36:36.924
[Shadid] Catalinbread comes out
of Portland in like '03-'04.

1630
01:36:36.924 --> 01:36:39.260
Nic Harris makes
these really cool pedals

1631
01:36:39.260 --> 01:36:43.297
that are like really fresh, but
also nostalgic in certain ways.

1632
01:36:43.297 --> 01:36:45.966
And it's this feeling
like old is new again.

1633
01:36:45.966 --> 01:36:48.068
And then all of a sudden,

1634
01:36:48.068 --> 01:36:51.105
Portland becomes
this kind of epicenter
of like crazy pedal builders

1635
01:36:51.105 --> 01:36:52.940
for more experimental players.

1636
01:36:52.940 --> 01:36:55.176
[Anthony]
Portland is a very proud city,

1637
01:36:55.176 --> 01:36:58.045
and it's all about
craftsmanship here.

1638
01:36:58.045 --> 01:37:01.382
It's... it's a lot broader
than just pedals really.

1639
01:37:01.382 --> 01:37:04.018
People here are very encouraged,

1640
01:37:04.018 --> 01:37:08.422
and there's a lot of community
with the entrepreneurs in town,
um, to help each other out.

1641
01:37:08.422 --> 01:37:10.357
The reason why we make
our pedals

1642
01:37:10.357 --> 01:37:14.562
is to help artists explore
their creative boundaries.

1643
01:37:14.562 --> 01:37:19.200
We really want to make something
that has a really high level
of craftsmanship,

1644
01:37:19.200 --> 01:37:21.535
but as soon as you plug in,

1645
01:37:21.535 --> 01:37:25.139
it needs to inspire you to go
somewhere you haven't
been before.

1646
01:37:25.139 --> 01:37:28.342
[Josh] Well, there's so many
great examples of crazy.

1647
01:37:28.342 --> 01:37:32.413
I also really love like Jamie
Stillman's approach to crazy.

1648
01:37:32.413 --> 01:37:36.217
It's almost a little bit
like crazy is not crazy anymore.

1649
01:37:36.217 --> 01:37:41.255
[rock music playing]

1650
01:37:52.900 --> 01:37:56.337
[screeching]

1651
01:37:59.006 --> 01:38:01.976
[Patrick] He was The Black Keys
tour manager
for about five years

1652
01:38:01.976 --> 01:38:03.577
and he used to fix Dan's pedals.

1653
01:38:03.577 --> 01:38:06.614
And around 2006,
he started building pedals.

1654
01:38:06.614 --> 01:38:11.485
I have these early EarthQuaker
pedals that he made for me.

1655
01:38:11.485 --> 01:38:18.459
This has got a deal roller,
fuzz, this one,
uh, Fantastic Beast.

1656
01:38:18.459 --> 01:38:20.427
This is a B and M,
I'm not sure what that is,

1657
01:38:20.427 --> 01:38:24.231
but he's like a fuzz expert
so... this is FY SL X.

1658
01:38:24.231 --> 01:38:27.301
I don't know what that is.
Cool shit though.

1659
01:38:27.301 --> 01:38:30.104
He gave you a sound
that you could put on records,

1660
01:38:30.104 --> 01:38:31.972
and it's gonna make
people feel weird.

1661
01:38:31.972 --> 01:38:34.041
Like it just, I heard
that first time I plugged in,

1662
01:38:34.041 --> 01:38:35.976
I was like, whoa.

1663
01:38:35.976 --> 01:38:40.314
[mellow music playing]

1664
01:38:50.691 --> 01:38:54.261
When they came on,
they... they were set to just
light shit on fire.

1665
01:38:54.261 --> 01:38:58.098
When I met him,
it was just Jamie in his
basement making pedals.

1666
01:38:58.098 --> 01:39:01.936
[Albini] EarthQuaker
is a remarkable company
in a number of different ways.

1667
01:39:01.936 --> 01:39:04.305
Like they... they keep
all of their production local.

1668
01:39:04.305 --> 01:39:08.175
They keep employing musicians
from the local scene
which I think is fantastic.

1669
01:39:08.175 --> 01:39:12.947
And each of those people
in some way or another are
either a musician, an artist,

1670
01:39:12.947 --> 01:39:16.383
or there is someone
who has the same sort of empathy

1671
01:39:16.383 --> 01:39:18.953
and sort of
sympathetic resonance

1672
01:39:18.953 --> 01:39:21.555
that's gonna come through
to someone that uses them.

1673
01:39:21.555 --> 01:39:27.261
[Jamie] And they're not afraid
to overwhelm you with options
which I think is great.

1674
01:39:27.261 --> 01:39:29.530
I'm usually working
on a lot of ideas at once,

1675
01:39:29.530 --> 01:39:31.665
and it's like nine times
out of ten

1676
01:39:31.665 --> 01:39:35.235
it's either
I woke up with some idea

1677
01:39:35.235 --> 01:39:37.071
where I'm like, come on,
I wanna know what that's like

1678
01:39:37.071 --> 01:39:39.540
and most of the time it sucks.
[laughs]

1679
01:39:39.540 --> 01:39:42.309
[Julie] Well, it's interesting
'cause it's technical work.

1680
01:39:42.309 --> 01:39:46.747
I mean, it's very involved,
but it really is creativity.

1681
01:39:46.747 --> 01:39:50.284
I can't tell him what to do.
Nobody can tell him what to do.

1682
01:39:50.284 --> 01:39:52.019
-Fuck you.
-[laughing]

1683
01:39:52.019 --> 01:39:54.288
Uh, don't tell me what to do.

1684
01:39:54.288 --> 01:39:58.225
[upbeat music playing]

1685
01:40:00.160 --> 01:40:02.329
[Brian] They mostly all start
from the same place

1686
01:40:02.329 --> 01:40:05.099
where they just started
tinkering with things
in some way.

1687
01:40:05.099 --> 01:40:07.701
That's like almost universal,
I think.

1688
01:40:07.701 --> 01:40:10.738
There are these forums.
I could ask
these people questions

1689
01:40:10.738 --> 01:40:14.174
and they would help guide you
to the answer.

1690
01:40:14.174 --> 01:40:16.577
Along that way,
I bought a breadboard,

1691
01:40:16.577 --> 01:40:20.280
which is, basically allows you
to make circuits quickly
without soldering.

1692
01:40:20.280 --> 01:40:24.551
And I just kind of
locked myself away
for about two years,

1693
01:40:24.551 --> 01:40:27.121
and just started experimenting
with what happens

1694
01:40:27.121 --> 01:40:30.190
when you run this type of guitar
into this type of gain stage.

1695
01:40:30.190 --> 01:40:33.560
And what happens with EQ
whenever you boost the bass
or increase the mids,

1696
01:40:33.560 --> 01:40:36.630
which that ended up leading me
to like self-publishing a book

1697
01:40:36.630 --> 01:40:39.199
about modifying pedals
and... and building pedals.

1698
01:40:39.199 --> 01:40:41.502
I wanted something that sounded
like an orange,

1699
01:40:41.502 --> 01:40:43.404
and I wanted something
that sound like a messy boogie.

1700
01:40:43.404 --> 01:40:45.706
And I wanted like all
of these different flavors.

1701
01:40:45.706 --> 01:40:48.175
And it was obviously
not very practical

1702
01:40:48.175 --> 01:40:50.811
to drag four or five amps
to a bar gig.

1703
01:40:50.811 --> 01:40:52.446
If you look through our history,

1704
01:40:52.446 --> 01:40:54.081
a lot of people
kind of considered us

1705
01:40:54.081 --> 01:40:55.682
to be like the amp
in a box company

1706
01:40:55.682 --> 01:40:58.318
that just made a lot
of good dirt pedals.

1707
01:40:58.318 --> 01:41:00.187
I love that stuff,

1708
01:41:00.187 --> 01:41:02.556
but I... I feel like
I wanna push the boundaries of,

1709
01:41:02.556 --> 01:41:04.324
and kind of just do
some other things

1710
01:41:04.324 --> 01:41:06.293
that are fun to me,
'cause I like other stuff too.

1711
01:41:06.293 --> 01:41:08.162
And you can only make
so many marshals.

1712
01:41:08.162 --> 01:41:10.531
[laughs] Marshals
selling turd boxes.

1713
01:41:10.531 --> 01:41:13.400
[Nels] Josh Scott, um,
comes out of the Keeley thing,

1714
01:41:13.400 --> 01:41:15.669
modding pedals in '07-'08,

1715
01:41:15.669 --> 01:41:19.606
um, you know,
making the Morning Glory,
the Pulp N Peel.

1716
01:41:19.606 --> 01:41:22.209
Taking these good circuits
and making them great.

1717
01:41:22.209 --> 01:41:24.711
[Andy]
When I saw JHS pedals
come through the door,

1718
01:41:24.711 --> 01:41:27.514
the simplicity of them
was... was a really
interesting thing,

1719
01:41:27.514 --> 01:41:31.185
because it was basically saying
we care about the circuits.

1720
01:41:31.185 --> 01:41:35.222
We don't really care about
trying to blow your head off
with cool graphics and designs.

1721
01:41:35.222 --> 01:41:37.291
We were just making pedals
that sound good.

1722
01:41:37.291 --> 01:41:39.393
When you're holding a pedal,

1723
01:41:39.393 --> 01:41:43.263
that is as important to me
is how it sounds,

1724
01:41:43.263 --> 01:41:48.802
75% of the time,
I think of a name or a look,

1725
01:41:48.802 --> 01:41:54.708
or like the emotion of something
that would make someone play
differently.

1726
01:41:54.708 --> 01:41:59.313
So the icon,
a name pointing to a sound
or a piece of history,

1727
01:41:59.313 --> 01:42:01.615
and then the tricky part
is to make a circuit

1728
01:42:01.615 --> 01:42:03.450
that's exceptional
to fit in that.

1729
01:42:03.450 --> 01:42:05.652
That's equally as important,
let that be said.

1730
01:42:05.652 --> 01:42:08.388
I have to go back
when I'm designing

1731
01:42:08.388 --> 01:42:13.360
and remember the feeling
of hearing Pearl Jam, "Alive",
on my brother's cassette tape

1732
01:42:13.360 --> 01:42:18.465
and how I felt,
and recreating those feelings
for guitarists,

1733
01:42:18.465 --> 01:42:21.168
in my opinion,
is... is as important,

1734
01:42:21.168 --> 01:42:23.637
if not more important,
than the circuit inside.

1735
01:42:23.637 --> 01:42:27.307
[man 24] The new age of guitar
god kind of begins again
with Jack White,

1736
01:42:27.307 --> 01:42:28.675
uh, Black Keys,

1737
01:42:28.675 --> 01:42:30.577
Arctic Monkeys, and Strokes.

1738
01:42:30.577 --> 01:42:33.147
The stuff that Annie Clark
from St. Vincent does

1739
01:42:33.147 --> 01:42:36.383
with... with fuzz
and guitar synths
is mind blowing.

1740
01:42:36.383 --> 01:42:41.455
And she's using
like Death By Audio,
nd Z.Vex , and Electro-Harmonix.

1741
01:42:41.455 --> 01:42:44.825
So it's this cool blend
of like old stuff and new stuff

1742
01:42:44.825 --> 01:42:47.728
to create something powerful
and original.

1743
01:42:47.728 --> 01:42:52.266
Independent music
really hit its stride
in the '90s and 2000s.

1744
01:42:52.266 --> 01:42:58.305
And I think the market
finally had to take notice
of bands and music like that.

1745
01:42:58.305 --> 01:43:00.841
[Steve] Now, it's rare
for every musician

1746
01:43:00.841 --> 01:43:04.811
not to have
like an assortment of pedals
in front of them,

1747
01:43:04.811 --> 01:43:08.849
and it's not uncommon
for songs to be written

1748
01:43:08.849 --> 01:43:12.419
around the features
of a particular effect.

1749
01:43:12.419 --> 01:43:15.956
[Piera]
I was invited to see Radiohead
at Madison Square Garden

1750
01:43:15.956 --> 01:43:18.492
and seeing Thom and Ed

1751
01:43:18.492 --> 01:43:21.361
kneeling down
in front of their pedalboards
playing the pedals,

1752
01:43:21.361 --> 01:43:23.263
not even touching their guitars,

1753
01:43:23.263 --> 01:43:24.765
heh, that's pretty amazing.

1754
01:43:24.765 --> 01:43:27.334
[mellow music playing]

1755
01:43:41.782 --> 01:43:43.617
[Sarah]
Usually when I'm composing,

1756
01:43:43.617 --> 01:43:46.653
I start out
by putting a board together,

1757
01:43:46.653 --> 01:43:49.823
then plugging in,
and then seeing what happens.

1758
01:43:49.823 --> 01:43:52.593
You know,
I think the magic really happens

1759
01:43:52.593 --> 01:43:56.863
when certain effects
are combined, you know?

1760
01:44:15.349 --> 01:44:18.452
Early 2000,
when I started playing
in Mars Volta, Omar had...

1761
01:44:18.452 --> 01:44:22.623
I probably had 40 or 50 pedals,
and he had probably
at that point 300 pedals.

1762
01:44:22.623 --> 01:44:25.926
[distorted music playing]

1763
01:44:35.002 --> 01:44:37.938
There's bands that I grew up
listening to that
are using this pedal,

1764
01:44:37.938 --> 01:44:41.041
and it still... is crazy for me
to wrap my head around,

1765
01:44:41.041 --> 01:44:44.011
you know, Aerosmith
or High on Fire
using something that I made

1766
01:44:44.011 --> 01:44:46.413
and designed in my basement,
right?

1767
01:44:46.413 --> 01:44:50.884
So all these new cool music
is happening,
and you're kind of going,

1768
01:44:50.884 --> 01:44:52.986
what are these sounds
I'm hearing?

1769
01:44:52.986 --> 01:44:55.622
It... there's
this kind of mass realization

1770
01:44:55.622 --> 01:44:57.991
among these communities
of musicians,

1771
01:44:57.991 --> 01:45:01.461
that is,
boutique pedal companies are,
you know, they have arrived.

1772
01:45:01.461 --> 01:45:03.030
They're influencing,
and they're innovating,

1773
01:45:03.030 --> 01:45:05.599
and... and they're popping up
all over.

1774
01:45:05.599 --> 01:45:08.969
[Johnny] It kind of
was this huge beginning
of a bubble

1775
01:45:08.969 --> 01:45:12.072
around 2005, or '6, or '7.

1776
01:45:12.072 --> 01:45:14.608
[man 25]
The whole industry of guitar
effects pedals,

1777
01:45:14.608 --> 01:45:17.444
not just boutique,
but mass produced as well,

1778
01:45:17.444 --> 01:45:20.013
was consistently
steadily climbing upward.

1779
01:45:20.013 --> 01:45:23.050
[John]
The vintage guitar market,
the amp market, collectors,

1780
01:45:23.050 --> 01:45:25.052
you have big money items
on the table.

1781
01:45:25.052 --> 01:45:27.688
Guitar players,
you go buy guitars and amps,

1782
01:45:27.688 --> 01:45:30.724
but then all of a sudden,
the economy tanks.

1783
01:45:30.724 --> 01:45:35.562
[soft music playing]

1784
01:45:38.031 --> 01:45:40.667
[Holley] We were really worried,
uh, in 2008

1785
01:45:40.667 --> 01:45:44.471
We're like, "Oh, shit,
what are... we're gonna have
to get real jobs."

1786
01:45:44.471 --> 01:45:45.906
We're virtually unemployable.

1787
01:45:45.906 --> 01:45:49.810
And economic conditions
around '07-'08,

1788
01:45:49.810 --> 01:45:52.446
you saw a lot of people
who stopped
buying expensive items.

1789
01:45:52.446 --> 01:45:54.648
They stopped buying guitars.

1790
01:45:54.648 --> 01:45:58.618
They still wanted something
that would inspire them
to write or... or play.

1791
01:45:58.618 --> 01:46:01.922
Guitar players tend
to turn over their sound
every six months to a year.

1792
01:46:01.922 --> 01:46:03.890
So if they can't change
their guitars

1793
01:46:03.890 --> 01:46:05.726
and they can't change
their amps,

1794
01:46:05.726 --> 01:46:08.028
really their resources
are adding

1795
01:46:08.028 --> 01:46:10.097
to their collection
of effects pedals
to get different sounds.

1796
01:46:10.097 --> 01:46:14.101
The recession fueled
the growth of pedal cells.

1797
01:46:14.101 --> 01:46:17.604
I mean, there's no way
out of that discussion.

1798
01:46:17.604 --> 01:46:20.941
[Paul] Pretty soon, anybody
who could do something crafty

1799
01:46:20.941 --> 01:46:25.946
and make a business of their own
in anything,
you know, alcohol, furniture,

1800
01:46:25.946 --> 01:46:27.647
whatever,
all of a sudden, there were...

1801
01:46:27.647 --> 01:46:31.485
there was a super explosion
of handmade goods.

1802
01:46:31.485 --> 01:46:34.621
[Julie]
Well, we didn't really know
we were starting a business.

1803
01:46:34.621 --> 01:46:37.057
-[Jamie] Heh, yeah.
-Like it was pretty well
a business

1804
01:46:37.057 --> 01:46:39.993
before we're like, "Oh, my God,
we have a business."

1805
01:46:39.993 --> 01:46:42.562
-[laughs]
-Right.

1806
01:46:42.562 --> 01:46:45.599
[Colt] The... the music
instruments industry
is a... is very unique industry

1807
01:46:45.599 --> 01:46:51.805
where it's mostly
hobbyists turned
into accidental businessmen.

1808
01:46:51.805 --> 01:46:54.107
[Holley]
And it really snowballed.

1809
01:46:54.107 --> 01:46:58.845
There is absolutely no way
we could have done
what we did today.

1810
01:46:58.845 --> 01:47:01.114
I mean, look at us. There's...
there's no business sense here.

1811
01:47:01.114 --> 01:47:02.949
There's no talent.
There's no anything.

1812
01:47:02.949 --> 01:47:06.620
We got... It was dumb luck
and lack of competitions,

1813
01:47:06.620 --> 01:47:07.821
and brute force.

1814
01:47:07.821 --> 01:47:10.090
[both laugh]

1815
01:47:10.090 --> 01:47:12.759
[Pete]    You know,
more and more pedal makers
are finding that,

1816
01:47:12.759 --> 01:47:15.929
if they have a small operation
and are, you know,
doing something interesting

1817
01:47:15.929 --> 01:47:18.665
that they can probably sustain
a small business

1818
01:47:18.665 --> 01:47:22.769
without having to become
a, you know, a big entity.

1819
01:47:22.769 --> 01:47:26.006
[Brian] As we got popular,
other companies like us
who were doing the same thing,

1820
01:47:26.006 --> 01:47:29.075
but building in our garage
as musicians,

1821
01:47:29.075 --> 01:47:31.011
you know, our businesses
just kind of happened

1822
01:47:31.011 --> 01:47:33.613
without really meaning
for it too.

1823
01:47:33.613 --> 01:47:36.917
But as you get bigger,
you can't continue building
in that garage.

1824
01:47:36.917 --> 01:47:40.754
All of a sudden,
our, you know, back orders
would get so high

1825
01:47:40.754 --> 01:47:42.589
that we decided
to hire more people.

1826
01:47:42.589 --> 01:47:44.724
There was one point,
it was so crazy

1827
01:47:44.724 --> 01:47:48.094
that I was, like,
hired eight people
on the same day.

1828
01:47:48.094 --> 01:47:49.996
And most of them are still here.

1829
01:47:49.996 --> 01:47:53.533
[Josh]
I remember 18-hour days
out in the shed,

1830
01:47:53.533 --> 01:47:55.969
you know, building stuff,
shipping stuff,

1831
01:47:55.969 --> 01:48:00.106
answering e-mails,
making a horrible website
on my own,

1832
01:48:00.106 --> 01:48:02.142
it became way too much.

1833
01:48:02.142 --> 01:48:03.844
[Ryan]    Eventually
it comes to a point

1834
01:48:03.844 --> 01:48:06.046
where we're running Fuzzrocious
full-time,

1835
01:48:06.046 --> 01:48:08.482
and we're both in education
full-time.

1836
01:48:08.482 --> 01:48:13.119
Every night is spent
in front of the TV or in here
just populate parts

1837
01:48:13.119 --> 01:48:15.956
or spend your time
on your lunch breaks doing that
as well.

1838
01:48:15.956 --> 01:48:18.158
You just never stop working.

1839
01:48:18.158 --> 01:48:20.060
[Jack] I was teching out
of a music shop,

1840
01:48:20.060 --> 01:48:22.095
um, just fixing amps
or whatever.

1841
01:48:22.095 --> 01:48:24.231
A customer came in
and, ah, he saw a breadboard
on my bench.

1842
01:48:24.231 --> 01:48:27.167
He's like, "Hey, what's that?"
And I go, "Oh, it's this
echo thing that I'm working on.

1843
01:48:27.167 --> 01:48:30.136
So he plays it,
and he's like, "This is great.
How much is it?"

1844
01:48:30.136 --> 01:48:32.572
I'm like,
"I think it'll sell for $200."

1845
01:48:32.572 --> 01:48:34.674
He's like, "Well, how much
if I buy 10 of them?"

1846
01:48:34.674 --> 01:48:36.142
"How about a hundred bucks?"

1847
01:48:36.142 --> 01:48:38.578
That's a thousand dollars.
He's like, "Okay."

1848
01:48:38.578 --> 01:48:41.214
Just like knowing
how volumes work, drugs,
and all that kind of thing,

1849
01:48:41.214 --> 01:48:43.149
like you get a discount
if you buy a bunch, you know?

1850
01:48:43.984 --> 01:48:45.986
[Pavla] The whole process
is incredibly challenging

1851
01:48:45.986 --> 01:48:48.188
from dealing
with customs officials,

1852
01:48:48.188 --> 01:48:50.090
you know, at the very end
of the supply chain

1853
01:48:50.090 --> 01:48:53.093
to the customer
to engineering problems
in the beginning.

1854
01:48:53.093 --> 01:48:55.195
And so just dealing
with sizing issues,

1855
01:48:55.195 --> 01:48:58.164
how to squeeze something
into a small enclosure
and make it functional.

1856
01:48:58.164 --> 01:48:59.566
And we didn't go
to school for this.

1857
01:48:59.566 --> 01:49:00.867
Nobody taught us how to do this.

1858
01:49:00.867 --> 01:49:02.903
You just kinda dive
in head first

1859
01:49:02.903 --> 01:49:06.139
and figure it out
as you go along.

1860
01:49:06.139 --> 01:49:08.241
[Heather]
Now, as it's been growing
so much more,

1861
01:49:08.241 --> 01:49:10.810
it's kind of like,
well, now, we need other roles.

1862
01:49:10.810 --> 01:49:13.246
We need someone
who does graphic design,

1863
01:49:13.246 --> 01:49:15.782
or we need, you know,
social media person.

1864
01:49:15.782 --> 01:49:20.587
So I think it's just trying
to accomplish everything,
you know,

1865
01:49:20.587 --> 01:49:23.723
that you possibly can
with such a small team.

1866
01:49:23.723 --> 01:49:27.794
[IljNow, they are big names
such as JHS, EQD.

1867
01:49:27.794 --> 01:49:30.864
All of them proved
to the new generation

1868
01:49:30.864 --> 01:49:32.966
that you can start
from your garage,

1869
01:49:32.966 --> 01:49:35.902
and become kind of
a household name

1870
01:49:35.902 --> 01:49:37.904
in... in the guitarist
community.

1871
01:49:37.904 --> 01:49:40.040
The world is very small
at that point

1872
01:49:40.040 --> 01:49:43.777
where we got in
was a perfect storm

1873
01:49:43.777 --> 01:49:46.212
to really get into,
to making pedals.

1874
01:49:46.212 --> 01:49:49.649
[mellow music playing]

1875
01:49:51.217 --> 01:49:54.054
[Phillipe]
I know a lot of people,
myself included,

1876
01:49:54.054 --> 01:49:57.624
who we really slave
over our designs,

1877
01:49:57.624 --> 01:49:59.593
where it's like a breadboard
gets made,

1878
01:49:59.593 --> 01:50:03.196
and I scrutinize
every little component in there.

1879
01:50:03.196 --> 01:50:05.265
[Johnny] Oh, tons
of different transistors,

1880
01:50:05.265 --> 01:50:07.601
positive ground,
negative ground.

1881
01:50:07.601 --> 01:50:09.903
[VictoriResistors, diodes,

1882
01:50:09.903 --> 01:50:14.608
you'll have transistors
or op amps,
sometimes toggle switches.

1883
01:50:14.608 --> 01:50:16.610
[Johnny]
Just changing a few values
here and there

1884
01:50:16.610 --> 01:50:20.614
can make it sound really smooth,
or splatty, or dark, or bright.

1885
01:50:20.614 --> 01:50:25.018
If you put a wrong value
in somewhere,
it's gonna change the sound.

1886
01:50:25.018 --> 01:50:27.287
Sometimes subtly,
sometimes pretty drastically.

1887
01:50:27.287 --> 01:50:29.322
It's a study in simplicity.

1888
01:50:29.322 --> 01:50:32.726
Every single thing
does something.

1889
01:50:32.726 --> 01:50:35.362
[Josh]    Subtleties
and it all comes down
to subtleties.

1890
01:50:35.362 --> 01:50:38.064
How is the attack on that?
Each repeat?

1891
01:50:38.064 --> 01:50:40.300
Then how's the release?

1892
01:50:40.300 --> 01:50:43.870
How is it escalating?
Is it degrading?
There's so many factors.

1893
01:50:43.870 --> 01:50:46.806
[PauAnd then that,
also, then lends itself
to the idea of,

1894
01:50:46.806 --> 01:50:49.109
well, there can be
a thousand
different manufacturers

1895
01:50:49.109 --> 01:50:50.210
have the same effect.

1896
01:50:50.210 --> 01:50:53.880
because there can be
different circuits
for the same effect.

1897
01:50:53.880 --> 01:50:58.685
[Jeorge] Working in a company
that... that has been founded
on analog,

1898
01:50:58.685 --> 01:51:01.688
developing analog stuff
every single year,

1899
01:51:01.688 --> 01:51:03.957
you know, we get the e-mails,

1900
01:51:03.957 --> 01:51:08.161
"Hey, we're discontinuing
this transistor.
We're discontinuing this IC."

1901
01:51:08.161 --> 01:51:12.298
That technology is being lost,
so it's harder and harder to do,

1902
01:51:12.298 --> 01:51:15.068
and more, and more,
and more expensive,

1903
01:51:15.068 --> 01:51:17.337
so digital is really
is the future.

1904
01:51:17.337 --> 01:51:19.272
[slow music playing]

1905
01:51:21.941 --> 01:51:24.944
[Roger]
Towards the end of my years
of analog devices,

1906
01:51:24.944 --> 01:51:30.383
uh, we were working on a new,
uh, audio specific,
uh, DSP chip.

1907
01:51:30.383 --> 01:51:35.455
It occurred to me that this chip
could make the perfect brains

1908
01:51:35.455 --> 01:51:38.091
for a smart stompbox.

1909
01:51:38.091 --> 01:51:39.793
[Angelo]
DSP is a microcontroller

1910
01:51:39.793 --> 01:51:41.928
that's specifically designed
for audio

1911
01:51:41.928 --> 01:51:45.065
that you can then, you know,
dream up any algorithm
that you want.

1912
01:51:45.065 --> 01:51:47.233
[David] It really was
at this tipping point

1913
01:51:47.233 --> 01:51:50.470
where the power
of digital signal processors

1914
01:51:50.470 --> 01:51:55.241
got to where they could start
to do very exciting things,

1915
01:51:55.241 --> 01:51:59.846
and either replicate some
sort of traditional functions

1916
01:51:59.846 --> 01:52:02.048
that had been done
in the analog domain,

1917
01:52:02.048 --> 01:52:04.384
but more excitingly, I think,

1918
01:52:04.384 --> 01:52:08.788
open up all kinds of new doors
of things,
um, that hadn't been tried.

1919
01:52:08.788 --> 01:52:12.992
[mellow music playing]

1920
01:52:18.331 --> 01:52:21.267
[Josh] I think
the significant moment

1921
01:52:21.267 --> 01:52:24.871
in DSP,
digital signal processing,

1922
01:52:24.871 --> 01:52:27.507
walking into a music store
as a player

1923
01:52:27.507 --> 01:52:31.878
and seeing the green Line-6 DL4.

1924
01:52:31.878 --> 01:52:35.782
[David]    So the Line-6 DL4
is essentially a delay pedal,

1925
01:52:35.782 --> 01:52:39.252
I didn't even know
that it had a looper function
in it

1926
01:52:39.252 --> 01:52:41.221
for years and years.

1927
01:52:41.221 --> 01:52:44.958
Somehow, I stumbled upon
what's this sampler knob
down here do.

1928
01:52:44.958 --> 01:52:48.361
And from there,
my mind just poof.

1929
01:52:48.361 --> 01:52:52.265
[quirky music playing]

1930
01:53:02.075 --> 01:53:06.913
[Josh] And out of Line-6
came so many other companies,

1931
01:53:06.913 --> 01:53:09.783
because Strymon comes out
of that group

1932
01:53:09.783 --> 01:53:14.154
and several other people come
from that brand new thing.

1933
01:53:14.154 --> 01:53:19.092
Right after I left Line-6,
I... I knew I wanted
to start my own company.

1934
01:53:19.092 --> 01:53:24.330
In 2008,
I joined up with the guys
from Damage Control

1935
01:53:24.330 --> 01:53:27.300
who now keep going
with the Strymon line.

1936
01:53:27.300 --> 01:53:29.836
[Gregg]
Then when there only was an amp,
you know, tape delays,

1937
01:53:29.836 --> 01:53:32.872
and... and Bucket-Brigades,
and everybody wanted digital.

1938
01:53:32.872 --> 01:53:34.908
And then when...
when you actually got it,

1939
01:53:34.908 --> 01:53:38.211
then you decided,
"Oh, well,
maybe I do want those flaws."

1940
01:53:38.211 --> 01:53:40.513
[laughs] So now,
we're taking all those,

1941
01:53:40.513 --> 01:53:43.149
you know, high technology
to sort of recreate
the... the flaws

1942
01:53:43.149 --> 01:53:44.984
that everybody thought
they didn't want,

1943
01:53:44.984 --> 01:53:47.287
um, when that was all
that was available.

1944
01:53:47.287 --> 01:53:49.055
There was only a few companies
that were even...

1945
01:53:49.055 --> 01:53:51.424
had sort of evolved
to that level of technology.

1946
01:53:51.424 --> 01:53:55.395
So our thing really was putting
this really high performance
processor

1947
01:53:55.395 --> 01:53:57.897
and dedicating it
to one algorithm.

1948
01:53:57.897 --> 01:54:01.534
Ah, it was digital,
but the way you interact
with the controls,

1949
01:54:01.534 --> 01:54:05.238
the way the controls interact
with each other, it felt analog.

1950
01:54:05.238 --> 01:54:07.907
[Nick]
This company Meris popped up
a couple of years ago.

1951
01:54:07.907 --> 01:54:11.311
They kind of like came
from Strymon and Line-6.

1952
01:54:11.311 --> 01:54:13.580
[Terry] I wanted to do things,

1953
01:54:13.580 --> 01:54:16.115
I think,
with a more creative focus
and more outside the box.

1954
01:54:16.115 --> 01:54:20.320
Every effect that we've made
was going to be an instrument
in and of itself.

1955
01:54:20.320 --> 01:54:24.157
[soft music playing]

1956
01:54:33.099 --> 01:54:37.570
[man 26] Affordable DSP has
changed the whole pedal game,

1957
01:54:37.570 --> 01:54:44.377
and having digital technology
almost be indistinguishable
from analog

1958
01:54:44.377 --> 01:54:50.049
has made a lot of really
interesting new effects come out
in the last five years.

1959
01:54:50.049 --> 01:54:52.619
[soft music playing]

1960
01:55:35.662 --> 01:55:37.563
[Grant]
There's only so many things
you can really do

1961
01:55:37.563 --> 01:55:39.966
unless you start making
these crazy insane pedals.

1962
01:55:39.966 --> 01:55:44.437
By making these pedals,
it expands what people
are able to do with music.

1963
01:55:44.437 --> 01:55:46.306
[EmilOld Blood Noise
Endeavors, I think,

1964
01:55:46.306 --> 01:55:49.542
just blows my mind continuously
with what they release.

1965
01:55:49.542 --> 01:55:52.412
I think
that we have a good sweet spot,

1966
01:55:52.412 --> 01:55:56.249
sort of, in the weird section
of effects,

1967
01:55:56.249 --> 01:56:01.387
so some would say near sure,
like, unusable
or unmusical things

1968
01:56:01.387 --> 01:56:06.559
that kind of push the boundaries
on what you're expected
to like out of an effect.

1969
01:56:06.559 --> 01:56:10.129
[Angelo] I'm excited
when I see other builders'

1970
01:56:10.129 --> 01:56:12.432
personal expression
show through,

1971
01:56:12.432 --> 01:56:14.367
like, if it's
something unique idea.

1972
01:56:14.367 --> 01:56:16.602
I say, "Oh, man,
I can... I can see
that person behind it.

1973
01:56:37.991 --> 01:56:40.259
[Emily]
Chase Bliss, I don't think
they make a bad pedal.

1974
01:56:40.259 --> 01:56:43.262
And I am just in awe

1975
01:56:43.262 --> 01:56:47.367
of what they've been
able to accomplish
in the past several years.

1976
01:56:47.367 --> 01:56:49.202
[Joel] I wasn't a very good
student in college.

1977
01:56:49.202 --> 01:56:51.471
I didn't learn very much, heh,

1978
01:56:51.471 --> 01:56:55.575
about audio electronics
in college.

1979
01:56:55.575 --> 01:56:59.045
I basically approached Zach Vex,

1980
01:56:59.045 --> 01:57:02.081
and was like, "Hey, you know,
undergraduate degree
in electrical engineering,

1981
01:57:02.081 --> 01:57:05.118
I'm like, I'll work
for anything, like,
I just wanna learn.

1982
01:57:05.118 --> 01:57:07.320
I... I...
this is what I care about."

1983
01:57:07.320 --> 01:57:09.088
What I did
was I pulled out schematics

1984
01:57:09.088 --> 01:57:11.391
of my favorite...
favorite vibrato,

1985
01:57:11.391 --> 01:57:13.393
which was made my BOSS,
but it was discontinued.

1986
01:57:13.393 --> 01:57:15.762
Basically, I gave him a stack
of schematics

1987
01:57:15.762 --> 01:57:17.764
that would have circles drawn
on them,
like steal this, steal this,

1988
01:57:17.764 --> 01:57:19.799
steal this... this, steal this,
and build the whole circuit.

1989
01:57:19.799 --> 01:57:21.768
So Joel Korte
took all those ideas
that I gave him

1990
01:57:21.768 --> 01:57:24.637
and put it all together
as that... as that circuit.

1991
01:57:24.637 --> 01:57:27.040
[JoeHe made things
that were interesting for him.

1992
01:57:27.040 --> 01:57:30.576
And like, he didn't necessarily
worry too much

1993
01:57:30.576 --> 01:57:33.046
about how they were
gonna be received,

1994
01:57:33.046 --> 01:57:35.681
because he knew
that if he was really excited
about it,

1995
01:57:35.681 --> 01:57:39.385
and it's something that he loved
and he really cared about,
that...

1996
01:57:39.385 --> 01:57:41.621
that was gonna resonate
with people.

1997
01:57:41.621 --> 01:57:44.590
A few months
before I was gonna graduate,

1998
01:57:44.590 --> 01:57:48.795
my brother was killed
by a drunk driver.

1999
01:57:48.795 --> 01:57:52.698
For a year after that,
I was basically just...

2000
01:57:53.800 --> 01:57:56.736
I don't know,
it was just everything,
you know?

2001
01:57:56.736 --> 01:58:00.807
He was really into this guy
named Joseph Campbell,

2002
01:58:00.807 --> 01:58:07.280
who, uh, is really known
for the phrase,
"Follow your bliss."

2003
01:58:07.280 --> 01:58:10.416
I just really realized
that I wasn't doing that at all.

2004
01:58:10.416 --> 01:58:14.687
I have no interest
in trying to make something
that that's already out there.

2005
01:58:14.687 --> 01:58:17.123
You know, I wanna be talked
about as an innovator,

2006
01:58:17.123 --> 01:58:19.725
and... and if I don't,
then I won't be.

2007
01:58:19.725 --> 01:58:23.463
[upbeat music playing]

2008
01:58:42.281 --> 01:58:45.751
[Ben] And 2002,
to when I kicked in,

2009
01:58:45.751 --> 01:58:48.554
as I say, there was only
a handful of people
doing boutique stuff,

2010
01:58:48.554 --> 01:58:50.656
maybe 20, 25 people,

2011
01:58:50.656 --> 01:58:53.593
and fast forward to now at 2020,

2012
01:58:53.593 --> 01:58:58.331
and as a site, as thousands
and thousands of people.
And how can this be?

2013
01:58:58.331 --> 01:59:02.535
By 2012, '13, I was like,
"Where are these people
coming from?"

2014
01:59:02.535 --> 01:59:07.707
It was the... the speed
of knowledge on the internet.

2015
01:59:07.707 --> 01:59:12.278
[rock music playing]

2016
01:59:18.251 --> 01:59:20.853
[Blake]
Rewinding to the mid-2000s,

2017
01:59:20.853 --> 01:59:24.457
ProGuitarShop basically
started doing pedal demos.

2018
01:59:24.457 --> 01:59:26.392
I mean, there were some others,

2019
01:59:26.392 --> 01:59:28.494
but they were the ones
that started doing
nicely produced,

2020
01:59:28.494 --> 01:59:31.430
very good audio,
good playing pedal demos.

2021
01:59:31.430 --> 01:59:33.866
And the man doing that
was Andy Martin.

2022
01:59:33.866 --> 01:59:38.571
There's so many demo guys now,
but almost everybody
can point back to Andy.

2023
01:59:38.571 --> 01:59:39.939
[man 27] But first,
here's the clean tone.

2024
01:59:44.877 --> 01:59:47.613
[Andy] The whole reason
I started doing demos
in the first place

2025
01:59:47.613 --> 01:59:50.550
is 'cause we... we saw
this big boom of pedal makers

2026
01:59:50.550 --> 01:59:52.318
that you couldn't find
in your local store.

2027
01:59:52.318 --> 01:59:54.587
We saw there was only
a few people doing that

2028
01:59:54.587 --> 01:59:57.390
on this new thing
called YouTube,
you know, this was like 2007.

2029
01:59:57.390 --> 02:00:00.826
You know, Aaron Miller
from ProGuitarShop realized
that I was into film too,

2030
02:00:00.826 --> 02:00:04.864
but I was also in the music
and this... this new job
that he'd kind of just came

2031
02:00:04.864 --> 02:00:08.467
created out of thin air
was like the perfect marriage
of those skills

2032
02:00:08.467 --> 02:00:10.369
that, you know, we kind of
raised the bar a little bit,

2033
02:00:10.369 --> 02:00:12.205
because we weren't using
the camera mics,

2034
02:00:12.205 --> 02:00:14.740
and, uh, we were recording
these pedals professionally,

2035
02:00:14.740 --> 02:00:16.676
and we wanted it
to be a resource.

2036
02:00:16.676 --> 02:00:20.346
My pedal demo hero
is... is Andy Martin.

2037
02:00:20.346 --> 02:00:22.782
And I'd be like, "well, I wonder
what those...
this one sounds like."

2038
02:00:22.782 --> 02:00:25.585
Type in Andy, and I'll go like,
"Oh, that's
what it sounded like,"

2039
02:00:25.585 --> 02:00:27.753
and then, you know,
it was almost like
trying it yourself.

2040
02:00:27.753 --> 02:00:30.423
[Emily]
YouTube demos and video demos

2041
02:00:30.423 --> 02:00:34.293
are a great way for people
who don't have
that accessibility

2042
02:00:34.293 --> 02:00:37.863
to go through
and physically play
15 different fuzz pedals

2043
02:00:37.863 --> 02:00:39.966
before... until they get
the sound that's right for them.

2044
02:00:39.966 --> 02:00:42.535
[Pete]    This gear reviewer
or a gear demonstrator

2045
02:00:42.535 --> 02:00:44.337
was... was now a profession,

2046
02:00:44.337 --> 02:00:46.305
5and it was just something
that I stumbled into.

2047
02:00:46.305 --> 02:00:50.876
I think YouTube changed the game
as YouTube stars now,

2048
02:00:50.876 --> 02:00:54.614
like those,
what are those two dudes
in England who reviewed pedals?

2049
02:00:54.614 --> 02:00:58.584
They're just like soccer dads
and shit,
but like their channel is huge.

2050
02:00:58.584 --> 02:00:59.952
Hi, guys,
welcome to That Pedal Show .

2051
02:00:59.952 --> 02:01:01.821
-Dan here.
-Mick here. Hello, and welcome.

2052
02:01:01.821 --> 02:01:03.456
[Ryan]    If you work
with a great demo

2053
02:01:03.456 --> 02:01:05.291
or that has, uh,
an excellent fan base,

2054
02:01:05.291 --> 02:01:06.892
then you know
that you're gonna be in front

2055
02:01:06.892 --> 02:01:10.363
of 1,000, 10,000,
80,000, 100,000 people.

2056
02:01:10.363 --> 02:01:12.498
[man 28] And I think
why it's so successful

2057
02:01:12.498 --> 02:01:14.767
and why all these channels
are popping up

2058
02:01:14.767 --> 02:01:17.903
is because
this whole pedal community
has been around forever,

2059
02:01:17.903 --> 02:01:19.739
but they didn't have
the platform.

2060
02:01:19.739 --> 02:01:21.374
They didn't have the internet.

2061
02:01:21.374 --> 02:01:22.608
They didn't have things
like YouTube.

2062
02:01:26.712 --> 02:01:28.981
[Scott]
There's now tons of channels

2063
02:01:28.981 --> 02:01:31.284
that are really just about
kind of laying things out
for you,

2064
02:01:31.284 --> 02:01:32.918
and helping you make decisions

2065
02:01:32.918 --> 02:01:35.554
about whether
this is a good pedal
for you or not.

2066
02:01:35.554 --> 02:01:38.391
I think it was just gonna be,
well, let's just keep doing this

2067
02:01:38.391 --> 02:01:41.827
until we run out of pedals,
and I... I still haven't.

2068
02:01:41.827 --> 02:01:45.331
[rock music playing]

2069
02:01:52.705 --> 02:01:54.573
People have
a collector's mentality,

2070
02:01:54.573 --> 02:01:57.943
and that has helped enormously
in the boutique pedal industry.

2071
02:01:57.943 --> 02:02:00.913
[Steve]    The vintage market
really didn't start happening

2072
02:02:00.913 --> 02:02:03.783
until, you know,
the... the 2000s,

2073
02:02:03.783 --> 02:02:07.987
and... and some of this stuff
that is now really coveted
is... is going up in price.

2074
02:02:07.987 --> 02:02:11.991
Well, you know, I mean,
we all start collecting stuff
that our heroes used,

2075
02:02:11.991 --> 02:02:13.959
you know, just the folklore
that gets it going.

2076
02:02:13.959 --> 02:02:18.097
[rock music playing]

2077
02:02:27.773 --> 02:02:31.010
[Josh] The Klon is fun.
It might be the greatest pedal,

2078
02:02:31.010 --> 02:02:35.881
because it's...
it's this mix of hype
and why is it hyped?

2079
02:02:35.881 --> 02:02:38.684
And does it sound good or not?
And...

2080
02:02:39.652 --> 02:02:41.620
you take the back off,
it's gooped.

2081
02:02:41.620 --> 02:02:45.624
You can't know what it is,
and Bill's attention to detail,

2082
02:02:45.624 --> 02:02:48.761
ah, why he put the LED here,
why it's in a big case.

2083
02:02:48.761 --> 02:02:52.998
And I've heard now
a million people weigh in
and say, "Oh, it's jive.

2084
02:02:52.998 --> 02:02:55.735
That thing's a piece of crap,
and it's all hype."

2085
02:02:55.735 --> 02:02:58.771
And I've heard people say,
"Oh, it's just,
it's so beautiful,

2086
02:02:58.771 --> 02:03:00.740
because it's so versatile."

2087
02:03:00.740 --> 02:03:04.076
And it has that
the... the dreaded word,
transparent qualities.

2088
02:03:04.076 --> 02:03:07.079
Then I have to definitely agree
with the... the latter camp.

2089
02:03:07.079 --> 02:03:10.015
[Brian]
I've talked to Bill Finnegan
who, uh, owns Klon.

2090
02:03:10.015 --> 02:03:13.853
I think he never really intended
for his pedals to sell

2091
02:03:13.853 --> 02:03:16.489
for $3,000, $4,000
on the used market.

2092
02:03:16.489 --> 02:03:18.891
Like he was just creating art.

2093
02:03:18.891 --> 02:03:20.760
Man, I guess it's worth it,

2094
02:03:20.760 --> 02:03:23.162
because it's...
it's traded regularly
at that price

2095
02:03:23.162 --> 02:03:25.798
that, I think,
that it's also
a brilliant circuit,

2096
02:03:25.798 --> 02:03:30.069
but you can find it in a Tumnus
and in one of my pedals even.

2097
02:03:30.069 --> 02:03:34.073
[Brian] I really don't like
doing a lot of stuff
that's based on something else

2098
02:03:34.073 --> 02:03:36.475
unless
there's substantial changes.

2099
02:03:36.475 --> 02:03:40.546
So I did the Tumnus
because that's what my customers
were asking me for.

2100
02:03:40.546 --> 02:03:43.582
And at the end of the day,
I live to serve my customers.

2101
02:03:43.582 --> 02:03:46.552
If I don't serve my customers,
I'm not gonna have a business.

2102
02:03:46.552 --> 02:03:50.489
[rock music playing]

2103
02:03:57.129 --> 02:04:04.036
There's this great doubt
that the Klon clone
is actually this,

2104
02:04:04.036 --> 02:04:09.508
and it's the psychological thing
that's really important,
uh, for the pedal industry,

2105
02:04:09.508 --> 02:04:12.845
you know, it's some mystery.
It's something special.

2106
02:04:12.845 --> 02:04:15.147
But I do think
there is some legit criticism,

2107
02:04:15.147 --> 02:04:20.052
and that there's some things
that have become confused
for public property,

2108
02:04:20.052 --> 02:04:24.156
or, uh, categories
when really they're trademarks.

2109
02:04:24.156 --> 02:04:29.128
[Steve] Meanwhile, I'm guilty
of playing telecasters
that are not made by Fender.

2110
02:04:29.128 --> 02:04:32.231
We're all frequently playing
and using instruments and amps

2111
02:04:32.231 --> 02:04:34.667
and things that are made
by other people

2112
02:04:34.667 --> 02:04:37.970
that are variations
or derivations
of things that came before.

2113
02:04:37.970 --> 02:04:40.539
A friend of mine
worked at a pawn shop,

2114
02:04:40.539 --> 02:04:43.042
and he called me and he said,
"This pedal is really fucked up.
You should try it."

2115
02:04:43.042 --> 02:04:45.244
It's called
the Harmonic Percolator, HP-1.

2116
02:04:45.244 --> 02:04:47.146
That pedal traveled the world
with me.

2117
02:04:47.146 --> 02:04:48.981
I made a bunch of records
with it.

2118
02:04:48.981 --> 02:04:51.250
People ask me about it
because it was kind of unusual,

2119
02:04:51.250 --> 02:04:55.688
but along the way, this weird
sort of cult interest
in this one named pedal

2120
02:04:55.688 --> 02:05:02.027
created a kind of mini industry
of people making their version
of this circuit.

2121
02:05:02.027 --> 02:05:03.596
Obviously,
there's a lot of people

2122
02:05:03.596 --> 02:05:06.265
doing clones and stuff,
that's derivative,

2123
02:05:06.265 --> 02:05:08.834
but there are, you know,
there are a decent chunk
of people

2124
02:05:08.834 --> 02:05:12.638
doing some really, really cool,
unique and interesting things.

2125
02:05:12.638 --> 02:05:16.642
[Phillipe]
My big peeve isn't necessarily
about the people who might copy

2126
02:05:16.642 --> 02:05:19.645
or make clones of other things.

2127
02:05:19.645 --> 02:05:22.114
My big peeve

2128
02:05:22.114 --> 02:05:26.852
is when people say,
"Well, everybody does it,"
because not everybody does it.

2129
02:05:26.852 --> 02:05:29.154
[Jack] I can sum that up
in one sentence.

2130
02:05:29.154 --> 02:05:31.657
Those who can do
those who can't.

2131
02:05:34.527 --> 02:05:37.029
[Brian]
I can go on Instagram right now,
and there's like...

2132
02:05:37.029 --> 02:05:40.633
Well, there's like
a hundred thousand hashtags
about pedals.

2133
02:05:40.633 --> 02:05:42.635
And when I compare that

2134
02:05:42.635 --> 02:05:47.840
and think about 1962 Gibson
releasing Maestro Fuzz-Tone

2135
02:05:47.840 --> 02:05:50.175
to some dealers
and nobody buys it.

2136
02:05:50.175 --> 02:05:53.612
It's so different.
It's radically different.

2137
02:05:53.612 --> 02:05:56.248
[Aisha]
Having the Instagram profile
allowed me to connect

2138
02:05:56.248 --> 02:05:58.617
with more people
who are into this.

2139
02:05:58.617 --> 02:06:03.856
And I realized, oh, my gosh,
it's a huge worldwide community.

2140
02:06:03.856 --> 02:06:07.560
[Jamie]    If you want to do
the thing that you like to do
and get paid to do it

2141
02:06:07.560 --> 02:06:09.295
like you have to put yourself
out there.

2142
02:06:09.295 --> 02:06:11.263
And right now, the way
to put yourself out there

2143
02:06:11.263 --> 02:06:13.799
is to make a bunch of "content"

2144
02:06:13.799 --> 02:06:16.902
and put it on social media,
like, that's it.

2145
02:06:16.902 --> 02:06:18.871
That's the new magazine.

2146
02:06:18.871 --> 02:06:22.608
[Piera] Some of these places
are... are 90% marketing,

2147
02:06:22.608 --> 02:06:24.977
and, you know,
they have their social media.

2148
02:06:24.977 --> 02:06:28.080
They put out great videos
on YouTube
and on their websites,

2149
02:06:28.080 --> 02:06:30.649
so they're really good
at promotion and marketing.

2150
02:06:30.649 --> 02:06:34.787
And I think it's still growing
because these guys
are getting everybody excited,

2151
02:06:34.787 --> 02:06:38.057
and there's so many new pedals
coming out.
People are... are still trying.

2152
02:06:38.057 --> 02:06:40.326
And so it's... it's a big change
in the business I'm seeing.

2153
02:06:40.326 --> 02:06:42.962
Starting a company

2154
02:06:42.962 --> 02:06:49.301
that becomes successful
because of the internet
has an equally negative side.

2155
02:06:49.301 --> 02:06:53.138
You know, the very thing
that lets you be seen,

2156
02:06:53.138 --> 02:06:56.141
throws your pedal out
in front of all these people

2157
02:06:56.141 --> 02:07:00.079
is the very thing
that throws your product out

2158
02:07:00.079 --> 02:07:02.181
in front of people
who are gonna hate you.

2159
02:07:02.181 --> 02:07:05.250
There's... there's these people
that are like chained
to the wall,

2160
02:07:05.250 --> 02:07:07.353
eating dog food
in their mother's basement.

2161
02:07:07.353 --> 02:07:09.955
They're just sitting there
typing away

2162
02:07:09.955 --> 02:07:13.225
as... as to why
the Tube Screamer
is still the best pedal ever.

2163
02:07:13.225 --> 02:07:15.761
[Josh] There's not a builder
that I know

2164
02:07:15.761 --> 02:07:19.832
that doesn't cringe
when they're tagged
on the gear page.

2165
02:07:19.832 --> 02:07:21.333
"Oh, Keeley did it again.

2166
02:07:21.333 --> 02:07:23.769
He put dipswitches
on the inside of his pedal.

2167
02:07:23.769 --> 02:07:26.672
Um, I won't be buying any
of those Keeley pedals."

2168
02:07:26.672 --> 02:07:29.375
I feel like forums
used to be extremely helpful.

2169
02:07:29.375 --> 02:07:31.677
I thought that they were like,

2170
02:07:31.677 --> 02:07:33.979
you know,
a lot of like-minded people
with a lot of knowledge.

2171
02:07:33.979 --> 02:07:35.981
Somewhere, out of nowhere,

2172
02:07:35.981 --> 02:07:38.417
it really just devolved
into people

2173
02:07:38.417 --> 02:07:41.820
arguing over whose opinion
is the right one.

2174
02:07:41.820 --> 02:07:44.657
And you know, like,
what's cool and what's not cool.

2175
02:07:44.657 --> 02:07:49.028
And people making,
like, decisions on, like,
how ethical a company is

2176
02:07:49.028 --> 02:07:50.763
without knowing anything
about them,

2177
02:07:50.763 --> 02:07:54.400
just like what they feel
about them.

2178
02:07:54.400 --> 02:08:00.372
There's a small section
of the population
that wanna watch the world burn,

2179
02:08:00.372 --> 02:08:04.677
and you provide them
with, uh, you know,
lifetime supply of matches,

2180
02:08:04.677 --> 02:08:06.045
and what are you going to get?

2181
02:08:06.045 --> 02:08:08.347
So it's a sports bar
with guitars.

2182
02:08:08.347 --> 02:08:12.084
It's like... it's... it's like
the most hyper-masculine
environment

2183
02:08:12.084 --> 02:08:13.919
that you could imagine.

2184
02:08:13.919 --> 02:08:15.287
Forever, the philosophy

2185
02:08:15.287 --> 02:08:17.289
that I had for myself
and my work was,

2186
02:08:17.289 --> 02:08:19.958
work
and tell no one what you do.

2187
02:08:20.793 --> 02:08:25.431
When it comes to... to women
who are actually building
and in companies,

2188
02:08:25.431 --> 02:08:32.004
I probably
couldn't have named a woman
other than Fran or Devi Ever

2189
02:08:32.004 --> 02:08:35.040
until about ten years ago.

2190
02:08:35.040 --> 02:08:38.410
[Aisha]
I started the Instagram profile
and got on there

2191
02:08:38.410 --> 02:08:40.879
and immediately started looking
for other lady builders,

2192
02:08:40.879 --> 02:08:43.982
and, you know,
non-binary people of color,

2193
02:08:43.982 --> 02:08:51.724
and realized, "Oh, boy,
there's just like
not very many of us.

2194
02:08:51.724 --> 02:08:55.394
[Victoria]
Men think that this is something
that women don't do.

2195
02:08:55.394 --> 02:08:57.262
People come into here,

2196
02:08:57.262 --> 02:08:59.998
and I'm like window dressing.

2197
02:08:59.998 --> 02:09:05.270
And you basically have to be
like, "Oh, hey,
I'm part of alchemy too."

2198
02:09:05.270 --> 02:09:07.406
[Nathalie]
People just generally
don't want to talk to you

2199
02:09:07.406 --> 02:09:08.974
if they come up
and they have, like,

2200
02:09:08.974 --> 02:09:10.943
a technical question
about the pedals.

2201
02:09:10.943 --> 02:09:13.812
Even if you're standing there,
they'll kind of look beyond you

2202
02:09:13.812 --> 02:09:17.049
for someone else
who can help them.
That's really kind of hard.

2203
02:09:17.049 --> 02:09:20.219
I want to talk about pedals
and I want to like,

2204
02:09:20.219 --> 02:09:22.387
you know, like demo for people,

2205
02:09:22.387 --> 02:09:24.490
but, yeah,
it's kind of... it's difficult

2206
02:09:24.490 --> 02:09:28.227
to feel like you have a role
in that sort of situation.

2207
02:09:28.227 --> 02:09:30.229
I never wanted
to do the marketing,

2208
02:09:30.229 --> 02:09:35.834
because I knew
what the guitar stores
and the distributors were like.

2209
02:09:35.834 --> 02:09:38.270
A possible distributor
that I spoke to,

2210
02:09:38.270 --> 02:09:40.773
he was like, "Yeah,
someone had told me
just to come by

2211
02:09:40.773 --> 02:09:42.841
because you are really pretty,
kapow!"

2212
02:09:42.841 --> 02:09:47.546
and then just walked away.
And I was like, "What?
Like, okay.

2213
02:09:47.546 --> 02:09:54.319
I mean, the imbalance is there
for the same reasons
it exists elsewhere.

2214
02:09:55.821 --> 02:09:58.056
[laughs]

2215
02:09:58.056 --> 02:10:01.927
[Fabi]
When I look at between the '30s
and even the '70s, you know,

2216
02:10:01.927 --> 02:10:04.296
at that time,
socially and culturally,

2217
02:10:04.296 --> 02:10:07.399
women just weren't allowed
to pick up tools,

2218
02:10:07.399 --> 02:10:11.136
much less be building
and designing instruments,
you know?

2219
02:10:11.136 --> 02:10:14.173
That means that there were men
creating communities,

2220
02:10:14.173 --> 02:10:18.243
teaching one another,
creating magazines,
creating brands,

2221
02:10:18.243 --> 02:10:20.112
and it was exclusively men

2222
02:10:20.112 --> 02:10:22.581
for no other reason
other than that's the only thing

2223
02:10:22.581 --> 02:10:24.883
that was socially
and culturally accepted.

2224
02:10:24.883 --> 02:10:27.486
Of course, as a marketing tool,

2225
02:10:27.486 --> 02:10:30.923
you want to market that
to the people
that have been creating it,

2226
02:10:30.923 --> 02:10:34.159
and the society
that it is now,
the guitar industry,

2227
02:10:34.159 --> 02:10:37.329
which is a bunch
of young white men
at that time, right?

2228
02:10:37.329 --> 02:10:40.299
You fast forward then
to the 2019,

2229
02:10:40.299 --> 02:10:42.935
those people,
those men are older.

2230
02:10:42.935 --> 02:10:48.040
And now, in the past five years,
it's becoming
culturally accepted

2231
02:10:48.040 --> 02:10:52.244
for women
to be picking up tools,
to be designing, to be playing.

2232
02:10:52.244 --> 02:10:54.980
And now,
you start seeing more women.

2233
02:10:54.980 --> 02:10:57.316
Right? Now, you start seeing
those communities grow.

2234
02:10:57.316 --> 02:11:03.222
It is a guitar and a pedal
manufacturing industry issue,

2235
02:11:03.222 --> 02:11:07.292
but it's societal
and a cultural issue
more than anything.

2236
02:11:07.292 --> 02:11:09.595
If it was the opposite,
I wouldn't be in this chair.

2237
02:11:09.595 --> 02:11:12.297
It would be you instead,
and I would be asking you
questions. [laughs]

2238
02:11:13.198 --> 02:11:16.969
[Emily] If you want to sell
more guitar pedals,

2239
02:11:16.969 --> 02:11:21.206
you need to increase
who you're advertising to.

2240
02:11:21.206 --> 02:11:25.177
[Sarah]
I'm so used to music companies
not really considering us

2241
02:11:25.177 --> 02:11:27.145
when they're developing
their products,

2242
02:11:27.145 --> 02:11:29.281
or putting out their products,
or marketing their products.

2243
02:11:29.281 --> 02:11:32.384
God,
it's like a breath of fresh air
where we are right now,

2244
02:11:32.384 --> 02:11:35.587
and just how the culture
has... has changed.

2245
02:11:35.587 --> 02:11:38.223
[Fabi]    I think that people
can relate and connect

2246
02:11:38.223 --> 02:11:40.025
to that specific issue
right away,

2247
02:11:40.025 --> 02:11:41.526
but once you start talking
about it

2248
02:11:41.526 --> 02:11:43.495
and started really digging
into it,

2249
02:11:43.495 --> 02:11:46.298
you start to realize
that it's not just a woman's
issue.

2250
02:11:46.298 --> 02:11:48.433
It's really a cultural
and societal issue.

2251
02:11:49.601 --> 02:11:53.338
[Lance] But half that handful
of black and brown people

2252
02:11:53.338 --> 02:11:55.974
who are interested
in making pedals,

2253
02:11:55.974 --> 02:12:00.979
who have just been happy to see
that they aren't
the only ones doing that.

2254
02:12:00.979 --> 02:12:04.616
I think part of why there's not
a whole lot of people
of color building

2255
02:12:05.450 --> 02:12:10.923
isn't anything
necessarily inherent
to building guitar pedals.

2256
02:12:10.923 --> 02:12:16.028
I think it's just an issue of it
being more difficult
for people of color

2257
02:12:16.028 --> 02:12:18.630
to be able to get businesses up
and running.

2258
02:12:18.630 --> 02:12:21.099
[Fran] And the world
is slow to change.

2259
02:12:21.099 --> 02:12:22.567
People have
to really be different.

2260
02:12:22.567 --> 02:12:24.436
It's not a matter
of just acting different.

2261
02:12:24.436 --> 02:12:28.273
You gotta... you gotta evolve,
and evolution takes time.

2262
02:12:28.273 --> 02:12:30.208
Kids who are in their 20s
starting out now,

2263
02:12:30.208 --> 02:12:33.045
when they get to my age,
it'll be different.

2264
02:12:33.045 --> 02:12:35.347
[Lance]
You can't spend your life

2265
02:12:35.347 --> 02:12:38.250
thinking about what other people
are gonna think about you,

2266
02:12:38.250 --> 02:12:42.321
and whether
your pedal company takes off,

2267
02:12:42.321 --> 02:12:44.523
or whether
you just end up making pedals

2268
02:12:44.523 --> 02:12:47.526
that are pretty much
for yourself
or for your friends.

2269
02:12:47.526 --> 02:12:49.661
If you enjoy doing it,
you should do it.

2270
02:12:49.661 --> 02:12:53.598
[mellow music playing]

2271
02:13:06.211 --> 02:13:09.748
I like to view my pedalboard
as like those
are my instruments,

2272
02:13:09.748 --> 02:13:12.417
and the guitar
is the sound source.

2273
02:13:12.417 --> 02:13:17.022
It was really a way
to come up with sounds

2274
02:13:17.022 --> 02:13:19.391
that didn't necessarily sound
like a guitar.

2275
02:13:19.391 --> 02:13:22.594
It didn't necessarily sound
like music
that was already out there.

2276
02:13:22.594 --> 02:13:26.164
[quirky music playing]

2277
02:13:28.500 --> 02:13:30.769
[Nels]
Nick Reinhart comes to mind.

2278
02:13:30.769 --> 02:13:33.205
We've...
I made a record with Nick,
and I didn't know Nick at all.

2279
02:13:33.205 --> 02:13:36.541
And I realized, Oh, my God,
there's a whole generation
of players

2280
02:13:36.541 --> 02:13:40.679
who are effects pedal players,
not just guitar players.

2281
02:13:40.679 --> 02:13:44.249
It's literally
a whole other thing
of just hobbyists,

2282
02:13:44.249 --> 02:13:46.184
and people
that aren't even musicians

2283
02:13:46.184 --> 02:13:49.354
they just wanna make noise
and create something,

2284
02:13:49.354 --> 02:13:52.524
you know, what do you call
some of these effects?
I don't even know.

2285
02:13:52.524 --> 02:13:57.329
[soft music playing]

2286
02:14:19.651 --> 02:14:21.787
[David]    The pedals
aren't only for guitarists.

2287
02:14:21.787 --> 02:14:24.489
I mean, it's amazing
to see different people
utilize them

2288
02:14:24.489 --> 02:14:26.425
in ways that are unique to them,

2289
02:14:26.425 --> 02:14:28.760
and... and to see
what results people can get.

2290
02:14:28.760 --> 02:14:31.329
I think
it's just an inspiring community

2291
02:14:31.329 --> 02:14:33.265
that will keep morphing
and changing,

2292
02:14:33.265 --> 02:14:37.569
but that has really helped
shape, uh, modern music.

2293
02:14:37.569 --> 02:14:41.239
Nowadays,
as much as one can dream,

2294
02:14:41.239 --> 02:14:44.643
one can make sounds
that maybe no one's
even ever heard before.

2295
02:14:44.643 --> 02:14:49.614
The possibilities
are becoming absolutely vast,
if not endless.

2296
02:14:50.816 --> 02:14:54.186
It was definitely, you know,
in like 2014, 2015,

2297
02:14:54.186 --> 02:14:57.656
where I really thought,
holy crap,
like this is a revolution.

2298
02:14:57.656 --> 02:15:03.361
[John] This pedal boom,
and the mass amount
of pedal companies

2299
02:15:03.361 --> 02:15:09.401
holds some evidence
that people wanna connect
with a personality.

2300
02:15:09.401 --> 02:15:12.571
JHS is not Walrus.
Walrus has
a different personality.

2301
02:15:12.571 --> 02:15:15.607
You look at EarthQuaker,
or you look at Oliver
of Death by Audio,

2302
02:15:15.607 --> 02:15:17.809
Robert Keeley, Brian Wampler,

2303
02:15:17.809 --> 02:15:23.548
you couldn't have
more different personas
of a pedal company.

2304
02:15:23.548 --> 02:15:26.151
[David]    Every pedal
is like a different food, right?

2305
02:15:26.151 --> 02:15:30.222
It's got different flavors
and characteristics
that you love.

2306
02:15:30.222 --> 02:15:35.293
I have three different
distortion, overdrive pedals
on my board,

2307
02:15:35.293 --> 02:15:37.195
and, you know,
that's because each one

2308
02:15:37.195 --> 02:15:40.732
is suited to a different type
of riff or song.

2309
02:15:40.732 --> 02:15:43.135
[Julie]
You can have a bunch of pedals,

2310
02:15:43.135 --> 02:15:46.805
you know, like nobody
is gonna have a pedalboard
that has just one brand.

2311
02:15:46.805 --> 02:15:49.641
You can have a billion pedals.

2312
02:15:49.641 --> 02:15:52.477
[Josh]
Yeah, I've had conversations,
like, is there a pedal bubble?

2313
02:15:52.477 --> 02:15:54.679
Is the industry gonna implode?

2314
02:15:54.679 --> 02:15:56.481
[Julie] It is a bit
of a relief to know

2315
02:15:56.481 --> 02:15:59.784
that there was, like,
a time that pedals died,

2316
02:15:59.784 --> 02:16:02.621
but then they came back.

2317
02:16:02.621 --> 02:16:07.626
But I think that there's always
going to be enough people
that want to stomp on something,

2318
02:16:07.626 --> 02:16:10.295
manipulate it with their hands,

2319
02:16:10.295 --> 02:16:16.568
get all these different sounds
by swapping out different boxes
that will be safe.

2320
02:16:16.568 --> 02:16:20.272
[Phillipe]    A lot of genres
related to rock 'n' roll
are showing sales declines.

2321
02:16:20.272 --> 02:16:22.574
But meanwhile,
the pedal industry
keeps going up,

2322
02:16:22.574 --> 02:16:25.377
and I think it speaks to
that they just love playing.

2323
02:16:25.377 --> 02:16:27.946
They love making noise
with these things

2324
02:16:27.946 --> 02:16:30.415
and plugging in and doing stuff.

2325
02:16:30.415 --> 02:16:33.852
For I can make something
that gives someone space

2326
02:16:33.852 --> 02:16:36.955
to create something
and be inspired and create art,

2327
02:16:36.955 --> 02:16:39.591
then that's very meaningful
to me.

2328
02:16:39.591 --> 02:16:42.294
[RyaAnd it's crazy,
because technically,
we are all in direct competition

2329
02:16:42.294 --> 02:16:44.563
with one another,
especially... some of us
more than others.

2330
02:16:44.563 --> 02:16:46.731
This pedal community,

2331
02:16:46.731 --> 02:16:49.734
for the most part,
we all play really nicely
together.

2332
02:16:49.734 --> 02:16:54.206
E-mails back and forth, texts,
where did you get
these transistors?

2333
02:16:54.206 --> 02:17:00.345
What do you think
about this dealer in France?
I don't like him.

2334
02:17:00.345 --> 02:17:02.214
Are you sourcing this part
from here?

2335
02:17:02.214 --> 02:17:03.782
Well, I can get you this thing
over here.

2336
02:17:03.782 --> 02:17:05.517
You don't find that
in other industries.

2337
02:17:05.517 --> 02:17:07.852
It's not...
that's not a common thing.

2338
02:17:07.852 --> 02:17:10.622
If you're selling insurance,
you aren't calling out
other insurance companies

2339
02:17:10.622 --> 02:17:13.825
and seeing what they're doing
to gain success. [chuckles]

2340
02:17:13.825 --> 02:17:17.896
[Craig]    If this universe
is gonna continue to expand,

2341
02:17:17.896 --> 02:17:20.999
it needs to look
into doing things
that haven't been done before.

2342
02:17:20.999 --> 02:17:22.901
Not everybody thought
about going to the corner store

2343
02:17:22.901 --> 02:17:25.003
and getting
a Texas Instrument op-amp,

2344
02:17:25.003 --> 02:17:26.905
but they were there
if you wanted them.

2345
02:17:26.905 --> 02:17:29.908
It would not surprise me
if say ten years from now,

2346
02:17:29.908 --> 02:17:32.477
there's another
Electronic Projects
For Musicians type book

2347
02:17:32.477 --> 02:17:35.247
based on using
software algorithms

2348
02:17:35.247 --> 02:17:40.252
and making it as easy
for people to use
as that book did.

2349
02:17:40.252 --> 02:17:42.721
[man 29] Going forward,

2350
02:17:42.721 --> 02:17:45.590
all of those elements go
into a melting pot,
and that's what inspires us,

2351
02:17:45.590 --> 02:17:47.792
and that's what keeps us going.

2352
02:17:47.792 --> 02:17:50.795
The need and desire
to make the best
of what's possible,

2353
02:17:50.795 --> 02:17:54.666
the need and desire
to do our best
by our customers,

2354
02:17:54.666 --> 02:17:59.471
the need and desire
to stand shoulder to shoulder
with our peers.

2355
02:17:59.471 --> 02:18:01.640
[Brian] I think pedals
have been completely integrated

2356
02:18:01.640 --> 02:18:04.643
into musical instruments
at this stage.

2357
02:18:04.643 --> 02:18:07.679
[Sarah]
All these real world scenarios

2358
02:18:07.679 --> 02:18:10.815
have been captured
via circuit boards

2359
02:18:10.815 --> 02:18:13.285
and placed
in these little metal boxes.

2360
02:18:13.285 --> 02:18:15.987
And I can put them on a board,
and play my guitar in,

2361
02:18:15.987 --> 02:18:20.558
and have access
to like a million different
sonic scenarios.

2362
02:18:20.558 --> 02:18:23.495
[Emily]
I think it's a great time
for guitarists,

2363
02:18:23.495 --> 02:18:27.966
and part of that
is because it's a great time
for... for guitar pedals.

2364
02:18:27.966 --> 02:18:30.368
[David] I mean, I wouldn't be
the guitar player I am

2365
02:18:30.368 --> 02:18:32.971
without being exposed
to these little boxes.

2366
02:18:32.971 --> 02:18:35.407
Popular music would just sound,

2367
02:18:35.407 --> 02:18:38.543
I think, a little bit stale
without all the different
flavors

2368
02:18:38.543 --> 02:18:40.845
that you can get out
of the pedals.

2369
02:18:40.845 --> 02:18:42.847
[NelTo me,
without imagination

2370
02:18:42.847 --> 02:18:44.683
what good are effects pedals,

2371
02:18:44.683 --> 02:18:47.018
but if you have it,
this is a beautiful time.

2372
02:18:47.018 --> 02:18:49.054
This is like a Renaissance.

2373
02:18:49.054 --> 02:18:54.326
Uh, the possibilities
of creative wonder
are off the scale.

2374
02:18:54.326 --> 02:18:58.697
The good news is,
you have a million options,
you know?

2375
02:18:58.697 --> 02:19:00.765
So that's
either gonna drive you crazy

2376
02:19:00.765 --> 02:19:02.734
or it's gonna make you
so excited,

2377
02:19:02.734 --> 02:19:06.004
and say,
this is the best time ever
to be a guitar player.

2378
02:19:07.706 --> 02:19:09.607
Do you think
it will be like this forever?

2379
02:19:09.607 --> 02:19:11.443
[laughing]

2380
02:19:11.443 --> 02:19:13.511
[rock music playing]