1 00:00:01,139 --> 00:00:01,863 Viewers like you make this program possible. 2 00:00:01,898 --> 00:00:05,281 Support your local PBS station. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 5 00:00:23,230 --> 00:00:24,300 -There he is. 6 00:00:24,334 --> 00:00:26,302 Oh, he has on his yellow bandana. 7 00:00:26,336 --> 00:00:28,304 How handsome. 8 00:00:28,338 --> 00:00:31,617 Okay. So, Herman, let's talk about what we're doing here. 9 00:00:31,652 --> 00:00:34,655 We want to start to find what we call the heartbeat 10 00:00:34,689 --> 00:00:36,553 for the character that you are. 11 00:00:38,555 --> 00:00:39,832 Okay. 12 00:00:39,867 --> 00:00:43,698 Can you transfer and fall back in the air? 13 00:00:43,733 --> 00:00:46,080 Yes, you can. 14 00:00:46,115 --> 00:00:48,255 The world of dance closed down. 15 00:00:48,289 --> 00:00:51,361 The pandemic totally closed the opportunities 16 00:00:51,396 --> 00:00:53,398 for dancers to work, dances to get made, 17 00:00:53,432 --> 00:00:55,641 dances to get presented. 18 00:00:55,676 --> 00:00:58,679 Maybe I can connect a dancer 19 00:00:58,713 --> 00:01:01,785 with another dancer through Zoom, 20 00:01:01,820 --> 00:01:04,374 and we can create a single thing, 21 00:01:04,409 --> 00:01:07,550 and we can pull us together even though we're miles apart. 22 00:01:09,276 --> 00:01:11,450 Dancers have to work every day. 23 00:01:11,485 --> 00:01:13,728 I have to work every day. 24 00:01:13,763 --> 00:01:15,834 How are we going to do this? 25 00:01:41,549 --> 00:01:43,827 -One thing you can always expect from choreographer 26 00:01:43,862 --> 00:01:47,624 Twyla Tharp, that is the unexpected. 27 00:01:47,659 --> 00:01:50,420 -Twyla Tharp has transformed American dance 28 00:01:50,455 --> 00:01:52,836 as both a performer and choreographer. 29 00:01:52,871 --> 00:01:55,908 Her work transcends traditional definitions of the medium, 30 00:01:55,943 --> 00:01:59,360 combining elements of ballet and modern dance. 31 00:02:07,299 --> 00:02:08,956 -Maria! 32 00:02:08,990 --> 00:02:11,165 How are you? -I'm good. 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,373 How are you? 34 00:02:12,408 --> 00:02:14,272 -Good morning, Benjamin. 35 00:02:14,306 --> 00:02:18,345 Would like to tell you just a bit about this project. 36 00:02:18,379 --> 00:02:20,278 -Hi. 37 00:02:20,312 --> 00:02:22,659 -Misty! Girl! 38 00:02:22,694 --> 00:02:25,938 -Whenever I see Twyla's name come up on my phone, 39 00:02:25,973 --> 00:02:28,665 I'm just like, I don't know what to expect, 40 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:31,427 but I know it's going to be exciting. 41 00:02:31,461 --> 00:02:32,669 -Let's see if we can bring 42 00:02:32,704 --> 00:02:34,395 St. Petersburg and L.A. together. 43 00:02:34,430 --> 00:02:37,467 People -- We can bring people together. 44 00:02:37,502 --> 00:02:41,195 This is about introducing the four main characters 45 00:02:41,230 --> 00:02:44,888 in a tale called "The Princess and the Goblin." 46 00:02:44,923 --> 00:02:49,341 It's going to be a reduction of the entire novel, 47 00:02:49,376 --> 00:02:52,758 less than three minutes, in which the Princess Irene 48 00:02:52,793 --> 00:02:56,417 is going to go into the underworld. 49 00:02:56,452 --> 00:02:58,488 That has a species of people 50 00:02:58,523 --> 00:03:00,904 that have been in quarantine forever, 51 00:03:00,939 --> 00:03:04,529 and she is going to help them find a way to be released. 52 00:03:04,563 --> 00:03:07,428 So, Maria, the character that you are playing, 53 00:03:07,463 --> 00:03:09,499 her name is Irene. 54 00:03:09,534 --> 00:03:11,605 The girl is the hero. 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,022 The character you are playing is the Queen. 56 00:03:15,056 --> 00:03:17,024 -Oh. -Ah, of course. 57 00:03:17,058 --> 00:03:20,717 The people who live with you in the underworld 58 00:03:20,752 --> 00:03:22,581 are in quarantine. 59 00:03:22,616 --> 00:03:27,345 They've been in quarantine for centuries, for epochs, 60 00:03:27,379 --> 00:03:29,830 and they, too, would like to get out. 61 00:03:29,864 --> 00:03:30,934 How long have you been in quarantine? 62 00:03:30,969 --> 00:03:34,386 I think I'm going into my ninth week. 63 00:03:34,421 --> 00:03:38,287 We're making a piece in two dimensions and four squares. 64 00:03:38,321 --> 00:03:41,497 We don't have a stage, but we have a virtual platform. 65 00:03:41,531 --> 00:03:44,603 Let's get it on YouTube, and let's share it with people. 66 00:03:52,024 --> 00:03:54,475 I had just graduated from college, 67 00:03:54,510 --> 00:03:56,857 and I wanted space to work in 68 00:03:56,891 --> 00:03:59,584 'cause I was going to be a dancer. 69 00:03:59,618 --> 00:04:03,484 There was a loft on Franklin Street. 70 00:04:03,519 --> 00:04:05,762 I went downtown and found the street, 71 00:04:05,797 --> 00:04:06,936 but not the building. 72 00:04:06,970 --> 00:04:09,352 There was a man seated on the stoop. 73 00:04:09,387 --> 00:04:10,836 His name was Bob Huot. 74 00:04:10,871 --> 00:04:12,597 Said, "Are you looking for a loft?" 75 00:04:12,631 --> 00:04:15,910 I said, "Yeah." He said, "Okay, upstairs." 76 00:04:15,945 --> 00:04:17,395 That was on the fourth floor. 77 00:04:17,429 --> 00:04:20,743 I started up. He was on the third floor. 78 00:04:20,777 --> 00:04:24,022 The rent on this floor was 50 bucks a month. 79 00:04:24,056 --> 00:04:27,888 That sounded good to me. 80 00:04:27,922 --> 00:04:29,924 And there was nothing -- literally nothing -- 81 00:04:29,959 --> 00:04:32,548 below Canal Street but artists in these spaces, 82 00:04:32,582 --> 00:04:36,793 which were illegal. 83 00:04:36,828 --> 00:04:39,520 Became aware of other people in the area 84 00:04:39,555 --> 00:04:41,971 who had lofts and who were working 85 00:04:42,005 --> 00:04:45,630 and who were far more established than I. 86 00:04:45,664 --> 00:04:48,805 I had graduated in art history, 87 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:51,705 but these guys were practicing art. 88 00:04:51,739 --> 00:04:53,845 That's very different. 89 00:04:53,879 --> 00:04:55,985 Suddenly, you're in front of, you know, the guys 90 00:04:56,019 --> 00:04:59,920 who are going to determine the history of American art. 91 00:04:59,954 --> 00:05:02,336 That's, "Whoa!" 92 00:05:02,371 --> 00:05:03,579 I was a kid. 93 00:05:03,613 --> 00:05:06,098 I didn't have any tangible foundation. 94 00:05:06,133 --> 00:05:08,031 These people had all done something. 95 00:05:08,066 --> 00:05:11,000 They were all moving on from somewhere they had been. 96 00:05:11,034 --> 00:05:13,865 I was still looking for a place to start. 97 00:05:17,558 --> 00:05:19,733 While I was still at Barnard College, 98 00:05:19,767 --> 00:05:22,011 I had also been studying dance. 99 00:05:22,045 --> 00:05:25,704 I took ballet class with your Igor Schwezoff. 100 00:05:25,739 --> 00:05:27,879 I was taking classes at Cunningham Studio. 101 00:05:27,913 --> 00:05:31,400 I was taking classes at the Graham Studio. 102 00:05:31,434 --> 00:05:32,849 Paul Taylor was in class. 103 00:05:32,884 --> 00:05:34,955 He was just starting a company, 104 00:05:34,989 --> 00:05:37,820 and I just managed to get into one of his rehearsals. 105 00:05:37,854 --> 00:05:39,856 Marched in, sat on the floor in the front of the room, 106 00:05:39,891 --> 00:05:41,617 he said, "Who are you?" and I said, "My name is Twyla. 107 00:05:41,651 --> 00:05:43,929 I'm gonna be dancing here." 108 00:05:43,964 --> 00:05:46,104 He was so shocked, he didn't throw me out. 109 00:05:51,109 --> 00:05:53,698 I was a very unpleasant company member. 110 00:05:53,732 --> 00:05:56,770 I would have fired me long before he did. 111 00:05:56,804 --> 00:05:58,875 I felt the work was not challenging. 112 00:05:58,910 --> 00:06:01,533 I didn't feel he was challenging himself. 113 00:06:01,568 --> 00:06:02,672 And I told him so. 114 00:06:02,707 --> 00:06:03,846 He just looked at me and said, 115 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,504 "Well, maybe you better go out and try trial by fire, 116 00:06:06,538 --> 00:06:08,713 and I said, "Okay." 117 00:06:08,747 --> 00:06:12,164 So, I would just try to do a dance, 118 00:06:12,199 --> 00:06:15,685 which was called "Tank Dive." 119 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,757 It was called "Tank Dive" because I always said, "Okay. 120 00:06:18,792 --> 00:06:22,658 Your chances of becoming successful are about the same 121 00:06:22,692 --> 00:06:24,763 as somebody jumping off a hundred-foot pole 122 00:06:24,798 --> 00:06:26,972 into a thimble of water. Good luck. 123 00:06:27,007 --> 00:06:30,079 We'll call it 'Tank Dive.'" 124 00:06:30,113 --> 00:06:32,530 I used no music in "Tank Dive" 125 00:06:32,564 --> 00:06:35,187 and for every piece during the next five years. 126 00:06:35,222 --> 00:06:37,880 What I needed to learn was, 127 00:06:37,914 --> 00:06:41,953 "What could movement communicate?" 128 00:06:41,987 --> 00:06:43,748 Not movement to music. 129 00:06:43,782 --> 00:06:46,613 Because if I do a phrase to happy music, 130 00:06:46,647 --> 00:06:48,477 everybody would be happy. 131 00:06:48,511 --> 00:06:52,032 If I do the same phrase to sad, they'll all be sad. 132 00:06:52,066 --> 00:06:54,483 What if I just do the phrase? 133 00:06:54,517 --> 00:06:56,588 What will they feel? 134 00:06:58,970 --> 00:07:03,699 -I gave myself stuff to do that nobody else was doing. 135 00:07:03,733 --> 00:07:05,148 That was the point. 136 00:07:05,183 --> 00:07:07,841 And nobody else was standing still on relevé 137 00:07:07,875 --> 00:07:09,843 for a minute and a half. 138 00:07:17,057 --> 00:07:18,748 It did what it was supposed to do -- 139 00:07:18,783 --> 00:07:21,544 it launched a career, like the diving board 140 00:07:21,579 --> 00:07:24,029 that you use to dive down into the water. 141 00:07:24,064 --> 00:07:25,928 And then you got to learn how to swim. 142 00:07:30,967 --> 00:07:33,798 The next piece, "Stride," was done in what would 143 00:07:33,832 --> 00:07:36,594 now be called an alternative space, 144 00:07:36,628 --> 00:07:38,803 which was a rooftop in Brooklyn. 145 00:07:38,837 --> 00:07:40,667 I don't remember how we snuck in. 146 00:07:40,701 --> 00:07:42,220 It must've been over a fire escape or something 147 00:07:42,254 --> 00:07:44,222 to get in. 148 00:07:53,852 --> 00:07:56,579 I was not trying to make the world's greatest dance. 149 00:07:56,614 --> 00:07:59,237 I was just trying to find a starting place 150 00:07:59,271 --> 00:08:02,136 that had enough substance to evolve. 151 00:08:13,872 --> 00:08:16,323 -Ah. There you go. 152 00:08:16,357 --> 00:08:18,118 We're together now. 153 00:08:18,152 --> 00:08:21,155 Okay, guys, so here's what we're going to do. 154 00:08:21,190 --> 00:08:24,538 -When the pandemic started, I had no idea what to expect. 155 00:08:24,573 --> 00:08:26,160 I want to say I was surprised 156 00:08:26,195 --> 00:08:27,783 that Twyla came callin', but at the same time, I wasn't. 157 00:08:27,817 --> 00:08:29,888 -And three, and... 158 00:08:29,923 --> 00:08:33,098 -I've been working with her for, I think, 22 years. 159 00:08:33,133 --> 00:08:36,239 There's never something that could hold Twyla back 160 00:08:36,274 --> 00:08:38,621 from creating or working. 161 00:08:38,656 --> 00:08:39,760 It feeds her. 162 00:08:39,795 --> 00:08:42,004 It's something that she has to do. 163 00:08:42,038 --> 00:08:45,248 -Herman, you remember, you've been trying to sleep, 164 00:08:45,283 --> 00:08:48,976 but you've been woken up because stone shoes here 165 00:08:49,011 --> 00:08:52,083 is stomping around and keeping you awake, 166 00:08:52,117 --> 00:08:54,879 and you go over to listen at the wall. 167 00:08:54,913 --> 00:08:57,744 You're going to go over to downstage left, 168 00:08:57,778 --> 00:09:01,023 and you're going to pull him through the wall. 169 00:09:01,057 --> 00:09:03,612 Okay. Yes. 170 00:09:03,646 --> 00:09:07,098 That is a spatial difficulty. 171 00:09:07,132 --> 00:09:08,858 -The way she approaches choreography, 172 00:09:08,893 --> 00:09:10,722 it's not about the steps. 173 00:09:10,757 --> 00:09:12,137 It's more than that. 174 00:09:12,172 --> 00:09:14,726 -She's gonna yank you in to -- 175 00:09:14,761 --> 00:09:15,900 That's it, right. 176 00:09:15,934 --> 00:09:17,142 Good. There, we got it. 177 00:09:17,177 --> 00:09:18,385 -When she comes into a studio and says, 178 00:09:18,419 --> 00:09:20,387 "No, you do this because of that, 179 00:09:20,421 --> 00:09:21,975 and because of that, you do that, 180 00:09:22,009 --> 00:09:23,908 and then all of this is combined, 181 00:09:23,942 --> 00:09:26,980 and this is the movement," and you're like, "Wow." 182 00:09:27,014 --> 00:09:28,360 And then you try to do the movement like that, 183 00:09:28,395 --> 00:09:31,812 and it's so difficult. 184 00:09:31,847 --> 00:09:34,090 Like, she's not sitting and telling you what to do. 185 00:09:34,125 --> 00:09:37,266 Like, she stands up and goes into the space 186 00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:39,717 and does it. 187 00:09:39,751 --> 00:09:41,270 And then you try to do it. 188 00:09:41,304 --> 00:09:42,823 And you're like, "Oh, my back went out." 189 00:09:44,687 --> 00:09:46,102 -We're all trying to keep up with her 190 00:09:46,137 --> 00:09:48,104 is the moral of the story. 191 00:09:48,139 --> 00:09:50,244 -I've just pulled him through the wall. 192 00:09:50,279 --> 00:09:52,868 I'm gonna give him -- unh! -- a big yank, 193 00:09:52,902 --> 00:09:55,905 and I'm gonna take him around the space, 194 00:09:55,940 --> 00:09:58,425 and I'm going to throw him upstage. 195 00:09:58,459 --> 00:09:59,737 Make a little more work 196 00:09:59,771 --> 00:10:01,842 about leveraging him around the corner. 197 00:10:01,877 --> 00:10:04,327 Make more movement for yourself going through. 198 00:10:04,362 --> 00:10:05,363 That's it! 199 00:10:05,397 --> 00:10:06,329 Now give it a hoist. 200 00:10:06,364 --> 00:10:07,676 Good! 201 00:10:07,710 --> 00:10:10,195 Right. Yes! 202 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:12,266 -The idea was so new 203 00:10:12,301 --> 00:10:15,891 just in terms of, like, entering into this new state, 204 00:10:15,925 --> 00:10:17,444 you know, where everything's virtual, 205 00:10:17,478 --> 00:10:19,101 everything's on Zoom. 206 00:10:19,135 --> 00:10:22,207 And even in this stage of her career, in her life, 207 00:10:22,242 --> 00:10:27,109 she's setting the standard for where dance is evolving to. 208 00:10:32,183 --> 00:10:36,670 -I, early on, felt the need to have companionship 209 00:10:36,705 --> 00:10:37,982 in the dancing 210 00:10:38,016 --> 00:10:40,191 and also counterpoint in the dancing. 211 00:10:40,225 --> 00:10:42,055 That requires more than yourself. 212 00:10:44,402 --> 00:10:46,749 We began as all women 213 00:10:46,784 --> 00:10:49,269 because we didn't want to be told what to do. 214 00:10:51,961 --> 00:10:54,101 We work together as women can work together, 215 00:10:54,136 --> 00:10:54,999 which is very tight. 216 00:10:55,033 --> 00:10:57,864 We put a man in, the chemistry changes. 217 00:11:00,763 --> 00:11:04,215 The "Bunch of Broads," we called ourselves. 218 00:11:04,249 --> 00:11:06,942 But I worked hard to have diversity, you might say, 219 00:11:06,976 --> 00:11:10,048 in the group, both culturally diverse 220 00:11:10,083 --> 00:11:12,810 but also physically diverse. 221 00:11:12,844 --> 00:11:14,915 Graciela, her movement is just huge. 222 00:11:14,950 --> 00:11:16,468 She could fling really wide. 223 00:11:16,503 --> 00:11:18,332 She was very, very strong. 224 00:11:18,367 --> 00:11:25,201 Sheela was amazingly fast -- small, compact, very rhythmic. 225 00:11:25,236 --> 00:11:27,169 Theresa was lanky and a different 226 00:11:27,203 --> 00:11:29,136 kind of weight in her body. 227 00:11:32,450 --> 00:11:34,314 Rose was a classically trained dancer. 228 00:11:34,348 --> 00:11:35,764 She was very large. 229 00:11:35,798 --> 00:11:37,800 She was almost 6 foot on point. 230 00:11:37,835 --> 00:11:40,182 She auditioned for the New York City Ballet, 231 00:11:40,216 --> 00:11:43,737 but Balanchine thought she was too tall. 232 00:11:43,772 --> 00:11:45,014 I didn't care how tall she was. 233 00:11:45,049 --> 00:11:46,222 She was a great dancer. 234 00:11:49,847 --> 00:11:52,125 Margery was a true lyric dancer. 235 00:11:52,159 --> 00:11:54,368 There were no gaps in her movement. 236 00:11:56,336 --> 00:11:57,544 Sara was just luscious. 237 00:11:57,578 --> 00:11:59,511 Sara was just great. She was -- 238 00:11:59,546 --> 00:12:01,928 Everything she did was right all the time. 239 00:12:01,962 --> 00:12:04,068 She was a natural dancer. 240 00:12:04,102 --> 00:12:07,830 So we were a well-balanced group. 241 00:12:07,865 --> 00:12:10,971 We had very little rehearsal space. 242 00:12:11,006 --> 00:12:12,973 And in order to get more work time, 243 00:12:13,008 --> 00:12:14,112 we just started working in the park. 244 00:12:19,877 --> 00:12:21,948 I started thinking about distances, 245 00:12:21,982 --> 00:12:24,157 and I started thinking about, "Oh, somebody who's close, 246 00:12:24,191 --> 00:12:26,159 you do this kind of movement, and you'll see it. 247 00:12:26,193 --> 00:12:27,816 But when they're 20 feet away, you do that, 248 00:12:27,850 --> 00:12:28,713 you're not going to see that. 249 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:30,266 You got to do this kind of movement. 250 00:12:30,301 --> 00:12:32,061 And if they're 40 feet away, and then if they're 251 00:12:32,096 --> 00:12:34,339 a hundred yards down there, you got to do this." 252 00:12:48,181 --> 00:12:49,320 Here are all these people, 253 00:12:49,354 --> 00:12:51,253 they're having their lives, they're walking around, 254 00:12:51,287 --> 00:12:53,324 they don't have to buy tickets and sit down. 255 00:12:53,358 --> 00:12:58,916 You're interjecting yourself into their reality. 256 00:12:58,950 --> 00:13:00,883 There were football games going through us 257 00:13:00,918 --> 00:13:02,851 and horseback people, and, you know, 258 00:13:02,885 --> 00:13:05,060 babies are squalling and bicycles 259 00:13:05,094 --> 00:13:06,095 are going through the dance. 260 00:13:06,130 --> 00:13:08,373 And you're saying, "Yeah, we're just the same 261 00:13:08,408 --> 00:13:09,961 as a bicycle or -- 262 00:13:09,996 --> 00:13:12,619 We're just an element in the park." 263 00:13:12,653 --> 00:13:15,139 That's not what theatrical dance is. 264 00:13:15,173 --> 00:13:17,106 Theatrical dance is separated -- 265 00:13:17,141 --> 00:13:20,213 here's the audience, here's the event. 266 00:13:20,247 --> 00:13:22,146 We were merged. 267 00:13:33,916 --> 00:13:37,092 -And there was a very long, slow adagio at the end 268 00:13:37,126 --> 00:13:38,472 that went on forever, 269 00:13:38,507 --> 00:13:40,198 and the sun is setting behind it. 270 00:13:40,233 --> 00:13:41,855 And that's how you knew it was over, 271 00:13:41,890 --> 00:13:43,305 because the energy had run out. 272 00:13:49,207 --> 00:13:50,553 "Medley" had been seen 273 00:13:50,588 --> 00:13:54,350 by a curator named Henry Geldzahler, 274 00:13:54,385 --> 00:13:58,907 who was assembling a show at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. 275 00:13:58,941 --> 00:14:03,256 And he invited us to be included in that show. 276 00:14:11,574 --> 00:14:14,267 He put dance in the middle of painting and sculpture. 277 00:14:18,996 --> 00:14:21,377 We were doing work that, you know, 278 00:14:21,412 --> 00:14:25,174 fit into spaces that were not staged spaces. 279 00:14:25,209 --> 00:14:26,900 Stages were for ballet companies. 280 00:14:26,935 --> 00:14:28,626 I was not in that tradition. 281 00:14:28,660 --> 00:14:31,111 I was in the tradition, "Just get out there and do it." 282 00:14:50,613 --> 00:14:54,169 We had no obligations other than to dance 283 00:14:54,203 --> 00:14:57,137 as well as we could dance. 284 00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:04,489 And that ended. 285 00:15:04,524 --> 00:15:09,011 Everybody began to need money. 286 00:15:09,046 --> 00:15:12,463 Sheela and Graciela's green cards ran out, 287 00:15:12,497 --> 00:15:13,671 and they couldn't renew. 288 00:15:13,705 --> 00:15:15,984 Theresa got married and moved away. 289 00:15:16,018 --> 00:15:18,607 Margery got married and moved away. 290 00:15:18,641 --> 00:15:20,471 We couldn't earn an income. 291 00:15:20,505 --> 00:15:21,610 We couldn't develop a life. 292 00:15:21,644 --> 00:15:23,301 We didn't have a studio. 293 00:15:23,336 --> 00:15:25,303 I felt like we'd been building something, 294 00:15:25,338 --> 00:15:28,168 but obviously a future in dance at this point 295 00:15:28,203 --> 00:15:29,411 was out of the question. 296 00:15:29,445 --> 00:15:32,345 So I quit. 297 00:15:32,379 --> 00:15:35,589 There was nothing more to be done. 298 00:15:35,624 --> 00:15:37,212 And I left New York. 299 00:15:43,011 --> 00:15:46,428 Okay, Misty, this was right on the beginning of your one. 300 00:15:46,462 --> 00:15:49,431 And one, two, four. 301 00:15:51,122 --> 00:15:54,263 Two. 302 00:15:54,298 --> 00:15:57,197 Three. 303 00:15:57,232 --> 00:15:59,199 Four. 304 00:16:01,477 --> 00:16:04,066 And pull him across. 305 00:16:04,101 --> 00:16:05,792 And take him around. 306 00:16:05,826 --> 00:16:07,794 And give him a big push. 307 00:16:07,828 --> 00:16:09,451 Good. Thank you. 308 00:16:09,485 --> 00:16:11,384 Okay. That's the idea. 309 00:16:11,418 --> 00:16:15,526 I thought actually you were one count late pulling him in. 310 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,631 -Okay. -What I don't know 311 00:16:17,666 --> 00:16:19,806 is whether you guys have got a time lag. 312 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,188 -Can we just count? -Yes, totally. 313 00:16:22,222 --> 00:16:24,293 One. 314 00:16:24,328 --> 00:16:26,295 See? Stop. Stop. 315 00:16:26,330 --> 00:16:30,575 My one is one, one before your one. 316 00:16:30,610 --> 00:16:32,163 No, I don't think it's us, Misty. 317 00:16:32,198 --> 00:16:34,441 I think it is the connection. 318 00:16:34,476 --> 00:16:37,720 So, listen, guys, this technology will make us crazy, 319 00:16:37,755 --> 00:16:40,482 but you know what? We'll fight our way through it. 320 00:16:40,516 --> 00:16:44,796 There is a discipline to taking a more restricted arena 321 00:16:44,831 --> 00:16:47,765 and learning lessons and finding potential there, 322 00:16:47,799 --> 00:16:49,422 which is what the Zoom is. 323 00:16:49,456 --> 00:16:53,288 The zoom is very restrictive. 324 00:16:53,322 --> 00:16:54,841 I've always been my best tool. 325 00:16:54,875 --> 00:16:59,052 I work whenever and however I need to 326 00:16:59,087 --> 00:17:00,467 so that I've been able to evolve 327 00:17:00,502 --> 00:17:04,747 a lot of material on myself. 328 00:17:04,782 --> 00:17:07,474 Dances come from dancing. 329 00:17:07,509 --> 00:17:09,752 I don't make a dance. 330 00:17:09,787 --> 00:17:13,756 I dance, and then something starts to make sense. 331 00:17:13,791 --> 00:17:15,689 A dance will evolve, 332 00:17:15,724 --> 00:17:18,313 if the idea is good enough. 333 00:17:20,522 --> 00:17:23,697 I try not to get emotional about the past 334 00:17:23,732 --> 00:17:26,321 because you were so much younger and the body 335 00:17:26,355 --> 00:17:28,461 was so much more malleable, 336 00:17:28,495 --> 00:17:30,359 and you just can't allow yourself 337 00:17:30,394 --> 00:17:32,085 to go back there and feel that. 338 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,605 So you have to go back there and look at it 339 00:17:34,639 --> 00:17:36,883 for the lessons that you can use. 340 00:17:43,165 --> 00:17:47,273 By 1970, I had married Bob Huot, 341 00:17:47,307 --> 00:17:51,725 the gentleman on the stoop at 104 Franklin Street. 342 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,763 Bob Huot and I moved to a farm 343 00:17:54,797 --> 00:18:00,424 four hours north of the city in order to start a family. 344 00:18:00,458 --> 00:18:03,910 I was pregnant. 345 00:18:03,944 --> 00:18:06,292 I started working on the farmhouse. 346 00:18:06,326 --> 00:18:07,776 I started doing chores. 347 00:18:07,810 --> 00:18:11,331 But soon Rose came up and then Sarah came 348 00:18:11,366 --> 00:18:13,437 because they didn't want to stop dancing 349 00:18:13,471 --> 00:18:15,439 any more than I did. 350 00:18:15,473 --> 00:18:18,925 We're dancers. You don't just stop dancing. 351 00:18:18,959 --> 00:18:24,379 We had been too embedded in the work we were doing 352 00:18:24,413 --> 00:18:27,313 to just let it go. 353 00:18:27,347 --> 00:18:30,419 So soon we were working again on a piece called "The Fugue." 354 00:18:33,215 --> 00:18:36,356 One, two, three, four, three, boom, one, one, two, three, 355 00:18:36,391 --> 00:18:39,325 four, three, two, one, one, two, three, four, three, two, one, 356 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,844 one, two, three, four, 357 00:18:41,879 --> 00:18:43,639 one, two, three, one, two, three, four, 358 00:18:43,674 --> 00:18:45,400 three, two, one, one, two, three, 359 00:18:45,434 --> 00:18:47,609 four, five, six, seven, eight. 360 00:18:49,576 --> 00:18:52,614 I also had a studio in the attic. 361 00:18:52,648 --> 00:18:54,823 And I was able there to set up 362 00:18:54,857 --> 00:18:57,308 a secondhand Panasonic video deck 363 00:18:57,343 --> 00:18:59,414 that I had brought from the city. 364 00:18:59,448 --> 00:19:02,934 And the project that I started was to record movement 365 00:19:02,969 --> 00:19:08,181 that I could do at different stages of the pregnancy safely. 366 00:19:08,216 --> 00:19:10,287 So, how does a body change? 367 00:19:10,321 --> 00:19:11,736 This was going to be an opportunity 368 00:19:11,771 --> 00:19:13,911 to learn some interesting lessons. 369 00:19:13,945 --> 00:19:15,568 There was no other way to do it. 370 00:19:18,364 --> 00:19:21,505 Bob, my husband, was not happy. 371 00:19:21,539 --> 00:19:26,475 He was not happy to have his family life disrupted. 372 00:19:26,510 --> 00:19:31,411 And that time was being shared between his family-to-be 373 00:19:31,446 --> 00:19:33,931 and the work that was being done. 374 00:19:33,965 --> 00:19:38,004 I thought these two could fit together. 375 00:19:38,038 --> 00:19:40,662 He felt they could not. 376 00:19:43,837 --> 00:19:46,702 Jesse was born. 377 00:19:46,737 --> 00:19:49,981 Then I went in a totally different direction after that. 378 00:19:50,016 --> 00:19:51,880 I went back to New York. 379 00:19:51,914 --> 00:19:56,678 We changed course to start developing 380 00:19:56,712 --> 00:19:59,370 a mode of engaging an audience 381 00:19:59,405 --> 00:20:00,682 that would pay the bills 382 00:20:00,716 --> 00:20:02,994 because now we had diapers to buy. 383 00:20:05,031 --> 00:20:07,758 Jess was our companion, 384 00:20:07,792 --> 00:20:13,004 and Jess was a part of our lives and part of our work. 385 00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:14,868 He'd be in there on the floor crawling, 386 00:20:14,903 --> 00:20:17,837 and he was always in the studio with us. 387 00:20:21,875 --> 00:20:24,533 -I was aware early on that my parents 388 00:20:24,568 --> 00:20:28,468 were very different than everybody else's parents. 389 00:20:28,503 --> 00:20:30,263 They believed in their art 390 00:20:30,298 --> 00:20:35,579 as being the primary focus of their existence. 391 00:20:35,613 --> 00:20:40,377 Mom and Dad were on very different wavelengths. 392 00:20:40,411 --> 00:20:43,069 -Bob and I were divorced. 393 00:20:43,103 --> 00:20:46,521 And he was on the farm. I was working in New York. 394 00:20:48,937 --> 00:20:52,423 I became the sole breadwinner. 395 00:20:52,458 --> 00:20:55,288 And it was a change of heart 396 00:20:55,323 --> 00:20:58,360 that was an artistic change of heart 397 00:20:58,395 --> 00:21:02,053 as well as a romantic change of heart 398 00:21:02,088 --> 00:21:06,920 because I was no longer willing to be in the avant garde. 399 00:21:06,955 --> 00:21:10,855 Now we were building dances that were going to be performed 400 00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:12,857 for paying audiences. 401 00:21:12,892 --> 00:21:16,482 Up until this point, our performances had all been free. 402 00:21:18,898 --> 00:21:20,865 We used to be, in the avant garde, 403 00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:23,696 ragged hair hanging down however, 404 00:21:23,730 --> 00:21:25,663 blue jeans are torn, so on and so forth. 405 00:21:25,698 --> 00:21:28,459 We started realizing 406 00:21:28,494 --> 00:21:32,532 if we are going to become a commercially viable entity, 407 00:21:32,567 --> 00:21:34,396 we have to put on a show. 408 00:21:34,431 --> 00:21:38,331 And it was suggested that our hair needed to have attention. 409 00:21:38,366 --> 00:21:40,471 I would go and set the example. 410 00:21:40,506 --> 00:21:42,991 I went to Sassoon, which was a big deal in dance 411 00:21:43,025 --> 00:21:45,373 because we all did the bun-head thing 412 00:21:45,407 --> 00:21:46,891 or we had long hair or whatever. 413 00:21:46,926 --> 00:21:49,480 And I had this hair that was flying around. 414 00:21:49,515 --> 00:21:52,414 We got costumes. 415 00:21:52,449 --> 00:21:58,144 "Eight Jelly Rolls" featured me in a role as a silent clown. 416 00:22:04,944 --> 00:22:07,602 Those early pieces were kind of tribute pieces 417 00:22:07,636 --> 00:22:09,120 to American theatrics. 418 00:22:11,675 --> 00:22:13,953 In vaudeville, women did not do 419 00:22:13,987 --> 00:22:15,955 the stuff Buster Keaton did. 420 00:22:15,989 --> 00:22:17,784 So, I said, "Well, I can do that stuff. 421 00:22:17,819 --> 00:22:19,614 "Okay, guys can do it, I can do it. 422 00:22:19,648 --> 00:22:21,823 I can do a pratfall." 423 00:22:35,423 --> 00:22:38,978 I didn't want to be stopped by any of the sort of clichés 424 00:22:39,012 --> 00:22:41,083 about what women could do or couldn't do. 425 00:22:46,848 --> 00:22:48,574 And it was a sort of progression 426 00:22:48,608 --> 00:22:53,579 from austere, kind of in-silence pieces to show-biz pieces. 427 00:22:56,961 --> 00:23:03,761 Show the folks a good time. 428 00:23:03,796 --> 00:23:05,522 -The pieces we do now are nothing like 429 00:23:05,556 --> 00:23:08,145 the pieces we did then, 430 00:23:08,179 --> 00:23:11,631 but they're all rooted in the same, you know, integrity 431 00:23:11,666 --> 00:23:13,875 and intelligence and desire to work 432 00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:17,430 and find out what dancing is and what we wanted to do. 433 00:23:17,465 --> 00:23:20,916 -I made the fastest, hardest dancing I could think of. 434 00:23:20,951 --> 00:23:22,608 There are some very literal gestures. 435 00:23:22,642 --> 00:23:26,059 I mean, for example, the banjo solo that I do 436 00:23:26,094 --> 00:23:30,823 starts out with hitching a ride down the street. 437 00:23:30,857 --> 00:23:33,688 How do you do? I'm knocking off my foot. 438 00:23:33,722 --> 00:23:35,621 Oh, yeah, there it goes. Oh, I see it. I see it. 439 00:23:35,655 --> 00:23:37,726 I still need a ride. How are you? 440 00:23:37,761 --> 00:23:39,694 I'm washing my hands of this whole mess. 441 00:23:39,728 --> 00:23:40,902 Oh, I hate you a lot. 442 00:23:40,936 --> 00:23:43,214 I'm bowing down here, this cello. 443 00:23:43,249 --> 00:23:44,768 I am shooting craps. 444 00:23:44,802 --> 00:23:46,804 Shame on you. You're a bad person. 445 00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:48,668 Traffic goes this way. Hello out there. 446 00:23:48,703 --> 00:23:50,774 Again, I will polish the mirror, 447 00:23:50,808 --> 00:23:52,569 and then bouncing a basketball. 448 00:23:52,603 --> 00:23:55,779 And then this is my notion of some Jewish something or other. 449 00:23:55,813 --> 00:23:57,988 And then we have this black bottom number put in 450 00:23:58,022 --> 00:24:00,059 because it is called "The Black Bottom Stomp." 451 00:24:00,093 --> 00:24:03,200 And then we go to the knock-kneed sheriff, 452 00:24:03,234 --> 00:24:06,065 and the last little dirty movement 453 00:24:06,099 --> 00:24:08,826 that we can put in before it comes to fast diagonal. 454 00:24:08,861 --> 00:24:10,828 And that all happens at this tempo. 455 00:24:10,863 --> 00:24:12,761 -One, two, two, two. 456 00:24:49,729 --> 00:24:51,662 Sara and Rose were the nucleus. 457 00:24:51,697 --> 00:24:53,802 We were all women. 458 00:24:53,837 --> 00:24:57,116 Then suddenly we got a man. 459 00:24:57,150 --> 00:25:00,533 Ken Rinker was the first man with us, 460 00:25:00,568 --> 00:25:01,879 and he went into "The Bix Pieces." 461 00:25:01,914 --> 00:25:05,642 Why? Because he was really good. 462 00:25:05,676 --> 00:25:08,748 We had now grown to five. 463 00:25:08,783 --> 00:25:11,026 We had an administrator. 464 00:25:11,061 --> 00:25:12,683 We were called Twyla Tharp Dance. 465 00:25:12,718 --> 00:25:15,272 We were a company. 466 00:25:15,306 --> 00:25:19,345 At one point, I had one of the dancers do a phrase of movement 467 00:25:19,379 --> 00:25:21,312 in a sort of modern dancing kind of way, 468 00:25:21,347 --> 00:25:23,970 and the other one is doing it totally classically. 469 00:25:24,005 --> 00:25:27,077 It was that section that Bob Joffrey saw. 470 00:25:27,111 --> 00:25:29,010 And Joffrey looked at it and said, "Holy cow. 471 00:25:29,044 --> 00:25:30,701 She could make a ballet." 472 00:25:30,736 --> 00:25:32,876 So Joffrey came to me after the "Bix" 473 00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:35,637 and said, "Would you make a ballet for my company?" 474 00:25:35,672 --> 00:25:39,158 Ready? And, ah, one, two, 475 00:25:39,192 --> 00:25:41,919 four, one. 476 00:25:41,954 --> 00:25:43,714 Four and one. 477 00:25:43,749 --> 00:25:45,613 I said, "Well, shall I start with 'Swan Lake'?" 478 00:25:45,647 --> 00:25:47,269 And he nicely said, 479 00:25:47,304 --> 00:25:49,755 "No, I think it'd be good to do something shorter first." 480 00:25:51,722 --> 00:25:54,760 So then I said, "Okay, I will do a ballet, 481 00:25:54,794 --> 00:25:57,383 "but I need to bring my dancers in as well 482 00:25:57,417 --> 00:25:59,937 "because I can't just abandon them. 483 00:25:59,972 --> 00:26:02,699 "Sara and Rose here -- we've been together for 10 years. 484 00:26:02,733 --> 00:26:05,287 Ken just came in. You'll take us all." 485 00:26:05,322 --> 00:26:07,013 He agreed. 486 00:26:07,048 --> 00:26:09,982 "Okay, fine, it'll be two companies working together." 487 00:26:10,016 --> 00:26:11,777 "It'll be a modern company with a ballet company. 488 00:26:11,811 --> 00:26:13,675 That's fine. We'll do that." 489 00:26:13,710 --> 00:26:17,714 And I said, "And I think I'll use The Beach Boys." 490 00:26:17,748 --> 00:26:20,302 This is a ballet company, right? 491 00:26:20,337 --> 00:26:21,821 We don't do The Beach -- 492 00:26:21,856 --> 00:26:23,892 He did. He said, "Okay." 493 00:26:28,276 --> 00:26:31,935 -The Beach Boys is straight out, hard-core pop music. 494 00:26:31,969 --> 00:26:34,178 And I put it into the ballet world. 495 00:26:34,213 --> 00:26:37,319 And I'm sure that the classicists, if you will -- 496 00:26:37,354 --> 00:26:39,701 "Oh, my God. Can this be?" 497 00:26:39,736 --> 00:26:41,738 And I didn't think of it from that point of view 498 00:26:41,772 --> 00:26:44,810 because I thought that the Joffrey ballet audience 499 00:26:44,844 --> 00:26:48,745 wanted something with energy and something that was fresh. 500 00:26:48,779 --> 00:26:52,300 And The Beach Boys had a vitality 501 00:26:52,334 --> 00:26:55,027 and a "Let's get going here," you know? 502 00:26:55,061 --> 00:26:57,823 Like, all of their songs are about motion. 503 00:27:04,277 --> 00:27:08,074 -When I was riding the subways and was seeing the graffiti 504 00:27:08,109 --> 00:27:09,938 painted on the sides of the subways -- 505 00:27:09,973 --> 00:27:11,181 this was just happening. 506 00:27:11,215 --> 00:27:12,976 These guys were just coming out. 507 00:27:13,010 --> 00:27:15,081 I was like, "Whoa, that is something else. 508 00:27:15,116 --> 00:27:16,911 We need that behind us." 509 00:27:16,945 --> 00:27:19,292 Because "Deuce Coupe" turned out to be 510 00:27:19,327 --> 00:27:21,950 about the sort of spirit and adventure of teenagers. 511 00:27:21,985 --> 00:27:24,884 And that seemed to me the perfect background. 512 00:27:32,340 --> 00:27:35,343 -These guys -- they were wanted by the police. 513 00:27:35,377 --> 00:27:36,965 We had to lock them up upstairs 514 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,105 so that they wouldn't get arrested between shows. 515 00:27:39,140 --> 00:27:40,969 They were outlaws. 516 00:27:47,907 --> 00:27:49,909 -When I started to work in the Joffrey, 517 00:27:49,944 --> 00:27:52,740 for the men it was maybe a bit challenging. 518 00:27:52,774 --> 00:27:55,121 They were not accustomed to having women 519 00:27:55,156 --> 00:27:57,779 tell them what to do or where to go. 520 00:27:57,814 --> 00:28:01,300 Two, three, four. Oops! 521 00:28:01,334 --> 00:28:02,888 The men in his company 522 00:28:02,922 --> 00:28:05,787 really didn't want to hear from a female choreographer. 523 00:28:05,822 --> 00:28:06,995 And a number of them went to Bob Joffrey 524 00:28:07,030 --> 00:28:08,514 and said, "We don't want to do this." 525 00:28:08,548 --> 00:28:09,549 And Bob said, "That's too bad. 526 00:28:09,584 --> 00:28:14,520 Get back in there and do it, or you're fired." 527 00:28:14,554 --> 00:28:18,489 I learned from "Deuce Coupe and from working with Bob Joffrey 528 00:28:18,524 --> 00:28:21,320 that I could do it. 529 00:28:21,354 --> 00:28:26,428 For a young person to have a man with his experience, 530 00:28:26,463 --> 00:28:28,534 believed in my vision, 531 00:28:28,568 --> 00:28:30,363 said, "Okay, kid, you can do this. 532 00:28:30,398 --> 00:28:32,227 You got a future." 533 00:28:32,262 --> 00:28:35,127 That made one very confident. 534 00:28:35,161 --> 00:28:38,924 If Bob Joffrey says you can do it, go for it. 535 00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:50,452 The Zoom has been a window into dancers 536 00:28:50,487 --> 00:28:53,283 that's very interesting and very different 537 00:28:53,317 --> 00:28:54,456 because they're at home. 538 00:28:54,491 --> 00:28:56,355 -Hello, little petit. 539 00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:59,461 Oh, he's fast asleep, and he's getting very large. 540 00:28:59,496 --> 00:29:02,326 Hi, Dad. This is my son, Jesse. 541 00:29:02,361 --> 00:29:03,569 -Hello. Good morning. 542 00:29:03,603 --> 00:29:05,122 -You're coming into their home. 543 00:29:05,157 --> 00:29:09,126 You're coming into time shared with them 544 00:29:09,161 --> 00:29:11,128 in a very different way. 545 00:29:11,163 --> 00:29:13,372 And you're working on -- I really appreciate it -- 546 00:29:13,406 --> 00:29:15,098 through your dinner hour, right? 547 00:29:15,132 --> 00:29:19,102 Now, you begin with one little step, 548 00:29:19,136 --> 00:29:24,141 one little beat to the front, one little step sauté 549 00:29:24,176 --> 00:29:26,799 and a piqué arabesque. 550 00:29:29,250 --> 00:29:31,183 That's it. 551 00:29:38,155 --> 00:29:39,881 Good. Okay, good. 552 00:29:39,916 --> 00:29:42,090 Very nice, Maria. Very, very nice. 553 00:29:42,125 --> 00:29:45,611 After you've done the mazurka and the little bourrée, 554 00:29:45,645 --> 00:29:50,858 Curdie is going to be coming in upstage left. 555 00:30:00,177 --> 00:30:01,869 Okay. Good. 556 00:30:01,903 --> 00:30:04,285 Alright. Good, Benjamin. Very good. 557 00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:05,976 You need to be just a little bit 558 00:30:06,011 --> 00:30:08,185 more exaggerated with your action. 559 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:11,326 When the earth shakes, it needs to be a little bit bigger. 560 00:30:11,361 --> 00:30:13,466 When she hits the ground, it's gotta be, 561 00:30:13,501 --> 00:30:15,399 "Oh, what's happening here?" 562 00:30:15,434 --> 00:30:16,504 Do you know about me? 563 00:30:16,538 --> 00:30:18,230 I'll tell you all about my history. 564 00:30:18,264 --> 00:30:20,646 I grew up working in a drive-in theater 565 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,615 from the time I was 8 years old until I went to college. 566 00:30:24,650 --> 00:30:30,621 I saw probably 1,000 cartoons as a young person. 567 00:30:30,656 --> 00:30:35,247 My entire world view is formed on that kind of time 568 00:30:35,281 --> 00:30:37,145 and that kind of exaggeration. 569 00:30:40,424 --> 00:30:42,254 The family's Quaker. 570 00:30:42,288 --> 00:30:47,397 And they had stringent thoughts about morality 571 00:30:47,431 --> 00:30:52,574 and about discipline and responsibility. 572 00:30:52,609 --> 00:30:54,991 My mother was a concert pianist. 573 00:30:55,025 --> 00:30:57,165 She started teaching piano when the war came 574 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:58,926 in order to help support the family. 575 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,413 So she herself had never accomplished as an artist 576 00:31:03,447 --> 00:31:04,552 what she wanted to. 577 00:31:04,586 --> 00:31:08,176 And she was never known as an artist. 578 00:31:08,211 --> 00:31:12,180 She, from the get-go, planned that this child of hers 579 00:31:12,215 --> 00:31:16,081 was going to accomplish that. 580 00:31:16,115 --> 00:31:19,670 Southern Indiana, the community was very poor. 581 00:31:19,705 --> 00:31:23,571 And my mother determined that her children 582 00:31:23,605 --> 00:31:27,609 were not going to get the future she wanted for them. 583 00:31:27,644 --> 00:31:33,408 And she moved the family to Southern California. 584 00:31:33,443 --> 00:31:38,689 She started all of her kids on ear training 585 00:31:38,724 --> 00:31:40,519 when we were not even a year old. 586 00:31:40,553 --> 00:31:43,004 By the time I was 2 I was already being taken 587 00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:45,420 to a professional children's teacher. 588 00:31:45,455 --> 00:31:48,665 I was playing a children's violin, small violin 589 00:31:48,699 --> 00:31:50,287 by the time I was 4. 590 00:31:50,322 --> 00:31:52,082 Whether it was dance or music 591 00:31:52,117 --> 00:31:57,225 or percussion or painting or elocution or German, 592 00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:59,400 in case we had another war with the Germans 593 00:31:59,434 --> 00:32:01,091 I should speak German, 594 00:32:01,126 --> 00:32:04,232 French because the ballet is in French. 595 00:32:04,267 --> 00:32:05,509 We needed to speak French. 596 00:32:05,544 --> 00:32:07,684 Typing I can do very well. 597 00:32:07,718 --> 00:32:12,102 Shorthand I had in case all else failed. 598 00:32:12,137 --> 00:32:14,311 My mother always went out of her way 599 00:32:14,346 --> 00:32:17,245 to find the very best teachers that she can find. 600 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,972 She ended up driving hundreds of miles every week 601 00:32:20,007 --> 00:32:22,216 to have ballet lessons. 602 00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:26,116 And I'm doing my homework by the glove compartment light 603 00:32:26,151 --> 00:32:28,084 while we're driving to San Marino, 604 00:32:28,118 --> 00:32:31,604 which is 120 miles round trip. 605 00:32:31,639 --> 00:32:35,229 She'd drive it twice or three times a week. 606 00:32:35,263 --> 00:32:38,370 My brothers and sister did have teenage years. 607 00:32:38,404 --> 00:32:40,096 They did go to dances. 608 00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:42,477 They were part of the school activities. 609 00:32:42,512 --> 00:32:43,616 They did have cars. 610 00:32:43,651 --> 00:32:45,101 They learned to drive -- 611 00:32:45,135 --> 00:32:46,999 none of these things that I do 612 00:32:47,034 --> 00:32:49,346 because I was much too busy 613 00:32:49,381 --> 00:32:53,143 being groomed to become something. 614 00:32:53,178 --> 00:32:56,526 I do regret not having had more interaction 615 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,184 with young people my age. 616 00:32:59,218 --> 00:33:02,359 Feeling so isolated, pulled away from everybody. 617 00:33:02,394 --> 00:33:04,706 How to relate to other people -- 618 00:33:04,741 --> 00:33:06,501 I didn't have lessons in that. 619 00:33:06,536 --> 00:33:10,402 Sometimes I think my mom gave me lessons 620 00:33:10,436 --> 00:33:14,268 in everything that's possible in life 621 00:33:14,302 --> 00:33:16,304 except how to live life. 622 00:33:19,549 --> 00:33:22,103 Good morning, Maria. 623 00:33:22,138 --> 00:33:25,762 Maria, please meet Benjamin. Benjamin, meet Maria. 624 00:33:25,796 --> 00:33:28,765 -Nice to meet you. -Hello. Very nice to meet you. 625 00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:33,494 -One of the big challenges of this whole project 626 00:33:33,528 --> 00:33:36,600 and what we're working to do here 627 00:33:36,635 --> 00:33:41,743 is establish that people who are as separate as we are 628 00:33:41,778 --> 00:33:43,814 can be connected. 629 00:33:43,849 --> 00:33:50,856 And so you have to make the impossible theatrically real. 630 00:33:50,890 --> 00:33:53,376 Now, one thing that's going to help us there 631 00:33:53,410 --> 00:33:55,619 is spatial accuracy. 632 00:34:00,417 --> 00:34:03,558 And go, Benjamin! 633 00:34:11,877 --> 00:34:14,707 Okay. Hold on. Thank you. Yeah. Thatagirl. 634 00:34:14,742 --> 00:34:16,675 Back it off to the edge of your hawk. 635 00:34:16,709 --> 00:34:19,298 Is she going to bow first, or are you, Benjamin? 636 00:34:19,333 --> 00:34:21,680 Which would you say in this kind of character role? 637 00:34:21,714 --> 00:34:23,095 -I should, I think. 638 00:34:23,130 --> 00:34:25,270 -Well, who do you think, Maria? 639 00:34:25,304 --> 00:34:27,134 -I think me. 640 00:34:27,168 --> 00:34:31,276 -She thinks her. Why does Irene bow first? 641 00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:34,727 -Because she was taught all of these manners 642 00:34:34,762 --> 00:34:37,868 and she's a very well-behaved girl. 643 00:34:37,903 --> 00:34:39,663 I don't know. 644 00:34:39,698 --> 00:34:43,219 -And why did you think he bowed first, Benjamin? 645 00:34:43,253 --> 00:34:46,291 -Well, because I'm the man. He needs to show her... 646 00:34:46,325 --> 00:34:49,432 -There you are. This is our culture. 647 00:34:49,466 --> 00:34:50,916 We live in it. 648 00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:56,404 MacDonald, the author, would say that Curdie bows first 649 00:34:56,439 --> 00:35:00,753 because Curdie is lower class. 650 00:35:00,788 --> 00:35:02,307 She's upper-class. 651 00:35:02,341 --> 00:35:05,586 But I like Maria's instinct. 652 00:35:05,620 --> 00:35:09,935 She bows first because she's an independent girl! 653 00:35:09,969 --> 00:35:12,213 See what I'm saying, right? 654 00:35:18,564 --> 00:35:20,256 Right on the heels of "Deuce Coupe," 655 00:35:20,290 --> 00:35:22,637 the Ballet Theater called and said, you know, 656 00:35:22,672 --> 00:35:25,778 would I make a piece for Baryshnikov? 657 00:35:28,816 --> 00:35:32,613 Baryshnikov was one of the leading male classical dancers 658 00:35:32,647 --> 00:35:34,511 of the 20th century. 659 00:35:39,723 --> 00:35:41,415 The guy was phenomenal. 660 00:35:41,449 --> 00:35:45,936 His technique was like, "Wow!" 661 00:35:45,971 --> 00:35:49,975 He was a huge star in Russia, and he'd just defected. 662 00:35:50,009 --> 00:35:52,840 And he hadn't performed in this country yet. 663 00:35:52,874 --> 00:35:55,705 I remember running into Alvin Ailey 664 00:35:55,739 --> 00:35:59,260 in one of the elevators somewhere, some dance building, 665 00:35:59,295 --> 00:36:00,917 and Alvin just looked at me and he said, 666 00:36:00,951 --> 00:36:03,402 "You're going to write a piece for Baryshnikov. 667 00:36:03,437 --> 00:36:07,475 You're crazy. You're going to be eaten alive." 668 00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:09,512 There was pressure. 669 00:36:09,546 --> 00:36:11,238 It was big deal in the dance world. 670 00:36:11,272 --> 00:36:13,861 Here's arguably the greatest dancer in the world. 671 00:36:13,895 --> 00:36:15,759 What are you going to do with this guy? 672 00:36:18,452 --> 00:36:21,662 There are huge expectations on the part of the audience 673 00:36:21,696 --> 00:36:25,010 as to what he should be doing for them. 674 00:36:30,878 --> 00:36:33,639 He'd seen me dance before we started to work, 675 00:36:33,674 --> 00:36:35,365 which I thought was important 676 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,299 because that's what I was going to push him towards. 677 00:36:38,334 --> 00:36:41,854 ...a costume for "Swan Lake," so that would be good, too. 678 00:36:44,754 --> 00:36:49,655 I had to be able to evolve for him a vocabulary 679 00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:51,485 that enfolded some of this kind of -- 680 00:36:51,519 --> 00:36:53,728 let's just, for lack of a better word, call it slouch. 681 00:36:53,763 --> 00:36:55,523 It's a totally different kind of placement 682 00:36:55,558 --> 00:36:57,387 from the classical ballet. 683 00:36:57,422 --> 00:37:00,632 And he was all-in to try to do that. 684 00:37:08,018 --> 00:37:10,780 -Exactly. -Okay. Exactly. Okay. 685 00:37:10,814 --> 00:37:12,506 -Was there any difficulty that you had 686 00:37:12,540 --> 00:37:16,061 from adjusting from a classical style to Twyla's style? 687 00:37:16,095 --> 00:37:19,478 -Sure, it was difficult, very difficult, I think. 688 00:37:19,513 --> 00:37:22,378 -In what way? 689 00:37:22,412 --> 00:37:24,552 -Well, it's her style, her ballet. 690 00:37:24,587 --> 00:37:26,727 It's really hard. 691 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,770 -It's not easy, I think, 692 00:37:35,805 --> 00:37:40,913 for dancers who know perfectly modern dance. 693 00:37:40,948 --> 00:37:42,881 Yeah? 694 00:37:42,915 --> 00:37:44,365 -Sometimes. No, that's right. 695 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,368 -It's not, but it's -- Um, um... 696 00:37:47,403 --> 00:37:49,301 -What? -I don't think that 697 00:37:49,336 --> 00:37:50,578 it's any easier or any harder 698 00:37:50,613 --> 00:37:51,821 for, you know, a well-trained dancer 699 00:37:51,855 --> 00:37:53,926 who's either classical or modern. 700 00:38:07,733 --> 00:38:09,356 Okay, let's do it this way. 701 00:38:09,390 --> 00:38:11,806 -This movement -- it's not natural for me 702 00:38:11,841 --> 00:38:14,499 because I'm born in Russia, you know? 703 00:38:16,052 --> 00:38:18,434 -He actually had just come to this country 704 00:38:18,468 --> 00:38:19,883 and he was displaced. 705 00:38:19,918 --> 00:38:22,921 He's Russian, classically trained. 706 00:38:22,955 --> 00:38:25,579 I'm from the Midwest, modern dancer. 707 00:38:25,613 --> 00:38:28,823 You could not have found more disparate elements 708 00:38:28,858 --> 00:38:31,481 to try to gather together. 709 00:38:33,725 --> 00:38:35,589 I took a gamble, 710 00:38:35,623 --> 00:38:39,662 and I opened him in a totally unexpected way, 711 00:38:39,696 --> 00:38:41,974 with him doing a kind of -- 712 00:38:45,461 --> 00:38:47,083 And the audience is going, "Huh?" 713 00:38:57,127 --> 00:39:00,096 And then when the curtain goes up, whack! 714 00:39:01,718 --> 00:39:03,962 All he's got! 715 00:39:32,853 --> 00:39:34,820 "Push" was lightning in a bottle. 716 00:39:34,855 --> 00:39:36,408 It was a moment in time. 717 00:39:36,443 --> 00:39:39,653 It could only have happened between the two of us 718 00:39:39,687 --> 00:39:44,002 at that point in time, singular. 719 00:39:44,036 --> 00:39:47,730 I was asked to make a duet for a gala with Misha. 720 00:39:47,764 --> 00:39:51,596 I had no experience partnering. 721 00:39:51,630 --> 00:39:53,494 -What are we doing?! 722 00:39:53,529 --> 00:39:55,151 -The same thing that we did yesterday. 723 00:39:55,185 --> 00:39:57,705 -No. 724 00:40:00,018 --> 00:40:02,710 -Maybe it's possible to just lay there, 725 00:40:02,745 --> 00:40:04,712 and you will be in position. 726 00:40:04,747 --> 00:40:06,196 -You're gonna do there? -Yes. 727 00:40:06,231 --> 00:40:08,026 -You're gonna do nothing? -Nothing. 728 00:40:13,203 --> 00:40:15,896 -Yeah, yeah, that's good. I like that. 729 00:40:15,930 --> 00:40:18,070 -Oh, yeah. Oh, I like it. 730 00:40:18,105 --> 00:40:21,798 I love it. It's a good -- 731 00:40:21,833 --> 00:40:23,524 -It's good, but it's... 732 00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:26,596 -Wonderful! 733 00:40:26,631 --> 00:40:29,634 The dynamic that I started doing with partnering 734 00:40:29,668 --> 00:40:31,601 was I would partner as much as he partnered. 735 00:40:31,636 --> 00:40:33,879 I would push, he would pull, and so on. 736 00:40:33,914 --> 00:40:35,605 In the classical ballet, traditionally, 737 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,918 the woman is more passive, 738 00:40:37,952 --> 00:40:40,058 and I started doing equal pressure. 739 00:40:40,092 --> 00:40:43,026 And that's what we actually started working on. 740 00:40:43,061 --> 00:40:44,959 Ah! -Sorry. 741 00:40:44,994 --> 00:40:47,617 -Oh, my God. -Sorry. 742 00:40:47,652 --> 00:40:52,726 -I'm very grateful to Misha that he made the moves 743 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,762 to alter his life completely 744 00:40:54,797 --> 00:40:58,145 so that I could have the opportunity to work with him. 745 00:42:45,217 --> 00:42:47,185 -During the course of my career, 746 00:42:47,219 --> 00:42:50,119 I've used many different kinds of music. 747 00:42:50,153 --> 00:42:52,742 Every kind of music that moves me, I use it, 748 00:42:52,777 --> 00:42:54,951 whether it's pop, whether it's classical, 749 00:42:54,986 --> 00:42:58,230 whether it's jazz, whether it's historic. 750 00:43:07,757 --> 00:43:11,036 I grew up totally exposed to music, 751 00:43:11,071 --> 00:43:16,732 practicing it, hearing it, loving it, living in it. 752 00:43:16,766 --> 00:43:21,391 So, having spent five years dancing with no music, 753 00:43:21,426 --> 00:43:24,740 I felt that I understood that, 754 00:43:24,774 --> 00:43:27,225 and then I could use anything. 755 00:43:38,857 --> 00:43:41,135 -Milos Forman saw "Push" 756 00:43:41,170 --> 00:43:43,137 and asked if I would like to work on "Hair." 757 00:43:56,944 --> 00:43:59,119 -I was massively over-prepared. 758 00:43:59,153 --> 00:44:01,708 I had done, like, enough choreography 759 00:44:01,742 --> 00:44:03,848 for like eight pictures. 760 00:44:03,882 --> 00:44:06,333 I had so many arguments with Milos 761 00:44:06,367 --> 00:44:08,887 about every single scene. 762 00:44:08,922 --> 00:44:11,303 I mean, there was the one with the dust storm, 763 00:44:11,338 --> 00:44:15,273 which was like 2 degrees outside in December. 764 00:44:15,307 --> 00:44:18,966 I said, "Milos, you can't shoot in December outside." 765 00:44:19,001 --> 00:44:20,968 He said, "It gets warm sometimes." 766 00:44:21,003 --> 00:44:22,901 So, everybody is out there freezing to death. 767 00:44:22,936 --> 00:44:26,387 It was an agony. It's probably my favorite scene. 768 00:44:34,326 --> 00:44:36,363 -We fly through water and fire, 769 00:44:36,397 --> 00:44:40,470 which we actually did because we didn't know any better. 770 00:44:40,505 --> 00:44:42,024 We did all the stunts. 771 00:44:48,340 --> 00:44:50,204 -Worked on the script for one year. 772 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,517 We shot for a year. We edited for a year. 773 00:44:52,551 --> 00:44:54,726 It was a long haul. 774 00:45:40,013 --> 00:45:42,325 -I just want to do the crane just one more time. 775 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,501 And it'll just be the -- 776 00:45:45,535 --> 00:45:49,574 -The whole thing done again on a different... 777 00:45:49,608 --> 00:45:51,852 -I got to have three minutes. 778 00:45:51,887 --> 00:45:54,372 -Got to give Twyla a three. 779 00:45:54,406 --> 00:45:56,546 -Three minutes. 780 00:45:59,032 --> 00:46:01,931 -Okay, it'll take time to move the cameras anyway. 781 00:46:01,966 --> 00:46:03,346 Would you like to get out of the lights? 782 00:46:03,381 --> 00:46:05,003 You think that will be better? -You want to sit down? 783 00:46:05,038 --> 00:46:07,419 -You have enough time. -No, it's okay. 784 00:46:07,454 --> 00:46:09,180 -What do you do to recharge yourself 785 00:46:09,214 --> 00:46:11,976 when you work long periods hard? 786 00:46:12,010 --> 00:46:15,151 -Work more. -More work. A work junkie. 787 00:46:15,186 --> 00:46:16,808 When was your last -- -No, that's not fair. 788 00:46:16,843 --> 00:46:18,120 That's not fair. 789 00:46:18,154 --> 00:46:20,605 -Your life is nothing but dance, one is told. 790 00:46:20,639 --> 00:46:23,090 You have no recreations, no side interests. 791 00:46:23,125 --> 00:46:24,574 -Right. -I really have heard this. 792 00:46:24,609 --> 00:46:26,162 Can you throw it all away, 793 00:46:26,197 --> 00:46:28,371 take two weeks in the Caribbean or whatever 794 00:46:28,406 --> 00:46:29,510 and never think of dance? 795 00:46:29,545 --> 00:46:31,340 -Well, I wouldn't want to. -Yeah. 796 00:46:31,374 --> 00:46:34,205 -I mean, working is a recreation, is what I'm saying. 797 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,864 -You have become kind of a superstar in the dance world. 798 00:46:37,898 --> 00:46:40,383 It's an embarrassing thing to call anybody. 799 00:46:40,418 --> 00:46:43,386 But is there any sense in what you feel the pinch of celebrity 800 00:46:43,421 --> 00:46:46,527 or being crowded by it -I try not to pay any attention. 801 00:46:46,562 --> 00:46:48,840 I don't know anything about this. 802 00:46:48,875 --> 00:46:50,428 -But you don't feel the pressures of -- 803 00:46:50,462 --> 00:46:51,601 -I just go to the studio in the morning 804 00:46:51,636 --> 00:46:52,913 and come out at night. 805 00:46:52,948 --> 00:46:54,466 Tell me about "Baker's Dozen." 806 00:46:54,501 --> 00:46:57,055 -In "Baker's Dozen," the music is all Willie "The Lion" Smith. 807 00:46:59,368 --> 00:47:02,233 "Hair" was a very long project. 808 00:47:02,267 --> 00:47:04,235 When that picture was over, 809 00:47:04,269 --> 00:47:10,172 I had to reestablish who I was and what the company was. 810 00:47:10,206 --> 00:47:13,416 The company had spent a lot of time rehearsing 811 00:47:13,451 --> 00:47:18,007 a lot of material that ended up on the cutting-room floor. 812 00:47:18,042 --> 00:47:19,906 So I took outtakes 813 00:47:19,940 --> 00:47:21,908 and combined them with material 814 00:47:21,942 --> 00:47:25,083 that I took from improvs that I had done 815 00:47:25,118 --> 00:47:29,363 when I was pregnant with Jess. 816 00:47:29,398 --> 00:47:31,607 "Baker's Dozen," 12 dancers onstage 817 00:47:31,641 --> 00:47:33,505 and one in the oven. 818 00:47:39,132 --> 00:47:41,410 -Say, there's someone next to you posing as a child. 819 00:47:43,308 --> 00:47:45,207 Stand up, young man. 820 00:47:45,241 --> 00:47:46,518 Come to Uncle Dick. 821 00:47:49,659 --> 00:47:51,454 Now just sit right up here. 822 00:47:51,489 --> 00:47:54,216 Ohh! 823 00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:57,150 Chunky little nipper, isn't he? 824 00:47:57,184 --> 00:47:59,428 What's your name? -You know what my name is. 825 00:48:01,223 --> 00:48:03,328 -Are you the kid I was talking to over there? 826 00:48:03,363 --> 00:48:04,364 -Yes. 827 00:48:04,398 --> 00:48:06,711 -It slipped my mind. What is it? 828 00:48:06,745 --> 00:48:08,368 -Jesse. -Is it Jesse? 829 00:48:08,402 --> 00:48:11,198 -Yes. -Jesse, are you a dancer? 830 00:48:11,233 --> 00:48:13,960 I can tell by your highly developed calves 831 00:48:13,994 --> 00:48:16,169 and your lovely dance slippers 832 00:48:16,203 --> 00:48:19,517 that you're probably not following in Mom's footsteps, 833 00:48:19,551 --> 00:48:21,243 at least in those shoes. 834 00:48:21,277 --> 00:48:25,247 -No. 835 00:48:25,281 --> 00:48:26,455 -Being a dancer, 836 00:48:26,489 --> 00:48:29,976 which at the level I've danced at, is a full-time job. 837 00:48:30,010 --> 00:48:34,014 Making dances is another full-time job. 838 00:48:34,049 --> 00:48:36,637 Running businesses is a full-time job. 839 00:48:36,672 --> 00:48:41,539 And could I have cut out from those three full-time jobs 840 00:48:41,573 --> 00:48:46,337 10% to be spending directly with Jess? 841 00:48:46,371 --> 00:48:48,995 I'm not sure that 10% would really have helped Jess. 842 00:48:51,100 --> 00:48:53,723 -I don't want to say my childhood was negative. 843 00:48:53,758 --> 00:48:56,726 -Oh? -You know, it was hard, yeah. 844 00:48:56,761 --> 00:48:58,487 It was hard. There was hard stuff. 845 00:48:58,521 --> 00:49:00,661 But there's no guilt. 846 00:49:00,696 --> 00:49:02,042 I don't think you have guilt. 847 00:49:02,077 --> 00:49:04,079 -Oh, I have tons of guilt, honey. 848 00:49:04,113 --> 00:49:06,150 I do. 849 00:49:06,184 --> 00:49:09,049 -You were an executive running a company, 850 00:49:09,084 --> 00:49:10,464 and I was cool with that. 851 00:49:10,499 --> 00:49:14,675 But at the same time, I wanted to know who my mom was. 852 00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:18,196 I was definitely on my own. 853 00:49:18,231 --> 00:49:20,026 -You saw me occasionally. 854 00:49:20,060 --> 00:49:22,442 -I saw you. 855 00:49:22,476 --> 00:49:26,342 I saw you light a lot of things on fire in the kitchen. 856 00:49:26,377 --> 00:49:29,552 -Well, I was trying to cook. 857 00:49:29,587 --> 00:49:33,556 -Art kind of was the top of the podium, 858 00:49:33,591 --> 00:49:35,765 and then there were people. 859 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:40,322 Art was what was first. 860 00:49:40,356 --> 00:49:44,291 It was challenging and lonely. 861 00:49:44,326 --> 00:49:46,397 And there were scary things. 862 00:49:46,431 --> 00:49:50,608 But even though you were doing your thing, 863 00:49:50,642 --> 00:49:55,544 I was exposed to so much. 864 00:49:55,578 --> 00:50:00,307 And I grew up in this weird world. 865 00:50:02,723 --> 00:50:06,106 I grew up around people who were so committed 866 00:50:06,141 --> 00:50:09,178 to what they were doing. 867 00:50:09,213 --> 00:50:10,559 I wouldn't go to the theater 868 00:50:10,593 --> 00:50:15,253 because I didn't want to be your kid in that world. 869 00:50:15,288 --> 00:50:18,705 Like, I wanted to be your kid, like your kid, 870 00:50:18,739 --> 00:50:20,810 like your -- your kid. 871 00:50:29,785 --> 00:50:31,718 -When "The Catherine Wheel" began, 872 00:50:31,752 --> 00:50:36,481 it started with the idea that technology could offer 873 00:50:36,516 --> 00:50:41,072 a new look at a dancer. 874 00:50:41,107 --> 00:50:42,694 "The Catherine Wheel" 875 00:50:42,729 --> 00:50:47,837 has one of the first motion-capture figures. 876 00:50:47,872 --> 00:50:51,703 And it has some sort of video experiments 877 00:50:51,738 --> 00:50:54,189 that certainly helped me with the foundation 878 00:50:54,223 --> 00:50:57,330 for what we're trying to do in the Zoom stuff. 879 00:50:57,364 --> 00:51:00,712 -"The Catherine Wheel" is the most ambitious work to date 880 00:51:00,747 --> 00:51:03,508 by one of the pioneers of contemporary American dance, 881 00:51:03,543 --> 00:51:05,372 Twyla Tharp. 882 00:51:05,407 --> 00:51:07,512 -Okay, yeah, now, how are you getting that arm under? 883 00:51:07,547 --> 00:51:08,617 Like, he's actually lifting her leg. 884 00:51:08,651 --> 00:51:10,481 Do it again. 885 00:51:10,515 --> 00:51:12,655 -Her starting point was the legend of St. Catherine, 886 00:51:12,690 --> 00:51:14,347 the 4th century martyr 887 00:51:14,381 --> 00:51:16,383 who strove to overcome her human failings 888 00:51:16,418 --> 00:51:20,146 in pursuit of an almost abstract spiritual perfection. 889 00:51:20,180 --> 00:51:23,356 She's depicted in a non-human electronic form. 890 00:51:23,390 --> 00:51:25,496 Sara is driven by a hopeless ambition 891 00:51:25,530 --> 00:51:28,395 to achieve the unattainable discipline and control 892 00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:30,328 of this computerized Catherine. 893 00:51:30,363 --> 00:51:32,434 -This seems desirable, that for some reason 894 00:51:32,468 --> 00:51:35,126 we should all strive to attain. 895 00:51:35,161 --> 00:51:39,924 So she sets out striving to become a perfect human being, 896 00:51:39,958 --> 00:51:42,237 which is the case with many dancers much of the time. 897 00:51:42,271 --> 00:51:43,583 You are never good enough. 898 00:51:43,617 --> 00:51:46,310 You should always be able to do one more pirouette, 899 00:51:46,344 --> 00:51:48,312 your elevation always be a little stronger. 900 00:51:48,346 --> 00:51:50,866 Your elevation should always be a little more. 901 00:51:59,288 --> 00:52:01,911 -I commissioned David Byrne to write the score. 902 00:52:01,946 --> 00:52:04,707 It was his first independent work 903 00:52:04,742 --> 00:52:07,262 apart from The Talking Heads. 904 00:52:07,296 --> 00:52:10,713 -She wanted do a full-length, you know, evening-length piece. 905 00:52:10,748 --> 00:52:14,338 That was a big gulp for me. I mean, that's a lot of music. 906 00:52:16,374 --> 00:52:18,480 But it was also very exciting for me 907 00:52:18,514 --> 00:52:20,171 because she wanted it to be 908 00:52:20,206 --> 00:52:23,174 unlike anything people had seen before. 909 00:52:23,209 --> 00:52:24,727 And she wanted it to be on Broadway. 910 00:52:24,762 --> 00:52:26,660 This was kind of putting a stake in the ground 911 00:52:26,695 --> 00:52:30,354 and saying, "Contemporary dance can be on Broadway." 912 00:52:30,388 --> 00:52:31,527 That's a big deal. 913 00:52:32,908 --> 00:52:35,669 -I was in the studio all the time, 914 00:52:35,704 --> 00:52:38,396 which meant I was rehearsing during the day 915 00:52:38,431 --> 00:52:41,813 and then in recording studios with him working at night. 916 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:54,999 I could tell that she would drive the dancers 917 00:52:55,033 --> 00:52:56,828 pretty hard physically. 918 00:52:56,863 --> 00:52:59,969 These are top-notch, trained dancers, 919 00:53:00,004 --> 00:53:01,730 and she would push them to the limits 920 00:53:01,764 --> 00:53:03,559 of what they could do physically. 921 00:53:03,594 --> 00:53:07,770 And they'd get there, and she'd push them further 922 00:53:07,805 --> 00:53:09,427 and see if they could go further. 923 00:53:09,462 --> 00:53:12,016 -To get through whole evening, it was -- 924 00:53:12,050 --> 00:53:13,983 You had to get yourself much more mentally prepared 925 00:53:14,018 --> 00:53:15,468 than I've ever had to before. 926 00:53:15,502 --> 00:53:18,436 -Well, it's the longest piece I've ever done 927 00:53:18,471 --> 00:53:20,507 and the hardest. 928 00:53:20,542 --> 00:53:24,235 -There was worries of whether we'd get through the evening. 929 00:53:24,270 --> 00:53:25,961 -In the same way that she was driving the dancers, 930 00:53:25,995 --> 00:53:27,756 she was driving me, kind of pushing me 931 00:53:27,790 --> 00:53:31,242 to raise the level of what I had done. 932 00:53:31,277 --> 00:53:35,384 We got to about a little over an hour's worth of material, 933 00:53:35,419 --> 00:53:37,766 and she was asking for more 934 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,768 and then more and then more. 935 00:53:39,802 --> 00:53:41,977 -And he just goes, "Is this it? Am I done yet?" 936 00:53:42,011 --> 00:53:43,289 And I said, "No. 937 00:53:43,323 --> 00:53:45,325 "Just you go listen to more Bach. 938 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,397 It's going to keep climbing. We're not done yet." 939 00:53:48,432 --> 00:53:50,917 -I'd never had anyone push me like that before. 940 00:53:50,951 --> 00:53:52,436 Turned out to be really good for me. 941 00:54:05,794 --> 00:54:09,522 I got a taste of how a show like this got put together, 942 00:54:09,556 --> 00:54:11,489 and watching Twyla manage all that 943 00:54:11,524 --> 00:54:13,457 was incredibly influential to me 944 00:54:13,491 --> 00:54:15,390 because not too long after that 945 00:54:15,424 --> 00:54:18,358 I started working with Talking Heads on staging a show. 946 00:54:18,393 --> 00:54:21,913 And so this was maybe the beginning of me 947 00:54:21,948 --> 00:54:24,709 starting to exercise those muscles creatively. 948 00:54:44,522 --> 00:54:46,697 With "The Catherine Wheel," 949 00:54:46,731 --> 00:54:49,493 we had become a very large institution. 950 00:54:49,527 --> 00:54:52,737 We were over 20 dancers. 951 00:54:52,772 --> 00:54:55,878 We had a staff of 10 people. 952 00:54:55,913 --> 00:54:58,881 I was doing too many jobs. 953 00:54:58,916 --> 00:55:00,642 I mean, I was doing commercial work 954 00:55:00,676 --> 00:55:02,471 on top of touring the company, 955 00:55:02,506 --> 00:55:04,611 and at the same time, as I'm doing, you know, 956 00:55:04,646 --> 00:55:06,993 this thing for John Curry. 957 00:55:17,037 --> 00:55:20,420 -Peter Martins and Twyla Tharp and Lynn Swann. 958 00:55:20,455 --> 00:55:23,354 They're combining, really combining, battle and football. 959 00:55:25,908 --> 00:55:27,841 -We had toured Mexico, 960 00:55:27,876 --> 00:55:29,567 and there I'd learned 961 00:55:29,602 --> 00:55:33,088 about the Aztec ritual sacrifice of humans. 962 00:55:33,122 --> 00:55:37,610 This had a very big impact on the next work. 963 00:55:41,476 --> 00:55:44,617 "Bad Smells" we premiered back to back with... 964 00:55:44,651 --> 00:55:49,000 -...Frank Sinatra songs. 965 00:55:53,419 --> 00:55:56,629 -In order to support this mechanism, 966 00:55:56,663 --> 00:56:00,805 we were doing a very large number of fundraising events, 967 00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,566 galas, photo shoots, 968 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,501 federal subsidies, state subsidy, patronage. 969 00:56:06,535 --> 00:56:13,508 We were touring 150 shows a year over the world. 970 00:56:13,542 --> 00:56:14,819 And I was very fragmented. 971 00:56:14,854 --> 00:56:17,995 A piece of me was doing over here 972 00:56:18,029 --> 00:56:19,859 and then these guys are on the road 973 00:56:19,893 --> 00:56:21,826 and then these guys are coming back. 974 00:56:21,861 --> 00:56:26,072 Jesse was becoming further distance 975 00:56:26,106 --> 00:56:28,902 as I'm bouncing around here. 976 00:56:28,937 --> 00:56:31,664 I was being very, very destructive for myself. 977 00:56:31,698 --> 00:56:35,909 I was going to have to stop working the way I was 978 00:56:35,944 --> 00:56:38,947 because this could not be sustained. 979 00:56:38,981 --> 00:56:41,777 It is the irony of success. 980 00:56:41,812 --> 00:56:42,951 They want you to look like 981 00:56:42,985 --> 00:56:44,987 what they think you ought to look like. 982 00:56:45,022 --> 00:56:50,061 And it becomes about repetition rather than trying new things. 983 00:56:50,096 --> 00:56:52,719 When I began to make dances, that's what I was doing. 984 00:56:52,754 --> 00:56:54,031 I was making dances. 985 00:56:54,065 --> 00:56:58,000 And now there was no time left to make dances 986 00:56:58,035 --> 00:57:02,211 or to work in the studio with dancers, to evolve. 987 00:57:02,246 --> 00:57:05,214 The result of that period -- 988 00:57:05,249 --> 00:57:08,045 it should be fine to say that I broke down. 989 00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:09,598 It should be all right to say that. 990 00:57:09,633 --> 00:57:14,154 Anybody would, having that kind of responsibility. 991 00:57:14,189 --> 00:57:16,985 But it's not. It's not okay to say that. 992 00:57:17,019 --> 00:57:19,850 So, how do I say that I kind of failed here? 993 00:57:19,884 --> 00:57:23,509 Because, you know, you want to be everything for everyone. 994 00:57:23,543 --> 00:57:25,234 You can't. 995 00:57:33,311 --> 00:57:38,903 So, now, Herman, let's talk about life for a moment here. 996 00:57:38,938 --> 00:57:42,562 Misty, I think, came back too soon from her procedure. 997 00:57:42,597 --> 00:57:44,530 She's out for two weeks. 998 00:57:44,564 --> 00:57:46,739 She has to have an MRI. 999 00:57:46,773 --> 00:57:49,258 -My back does not feel ready. 1000 00:57:49,293 --> 00:57:51,778 I'm feeling a lot of pain 1001 00:57:51,813 --> 00:57:56,162 and decided I needed to take, like, another month off. 1002 00:57:56,196 --> 00:57:58,164 She ended up bringing in Charlie. 1003 00:57:58,198 --> 00:58:01,857 -Charlie, I'm going to ask you to do me a huge favor. 1004 00:58:01,892 --> 00:58:04,273 -I met Twyla through her company. 1005 00:58:04,308 --> 00:58:06,828 I was 22 at the time, and this was on the tail end 1006 00:58:06,862 --> 00:58:08,657 of maybe 60 different auditions. 1007 00:58:08,692 --> 00:58:10,210 And they all said that I was way too short 1008 00:58:10,245 --> 00:58:12,696 and way too fat to be taken seriously. 1009 00:58:12,730 --> 00:58:14,145 Twyla said, "I would love to hire you 1010 00:58:14,180 --> 00:58:16,251 to be in the touring company." 1011 00:58:16,285 --> 00:58:18,529 A testament to Twyla's open-mindedness 1012 00:58:18,564 --> 00:58:20,186 is that if someone like Misty Copeland 1013 00:58:20,220 --> 00:58:22,982 is unavailable to finish choreography, 1014 00:58:23,016 --> 00:58:24,846 she's not going to say, "We need to typecast 1015 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,331 "and find the exact same type of person to fulfill this. 1016 00:58:27,365 --> 00:58:28,953 "Does it provide new interest 1017 00:58:28,988 --> 00:58:32,750 because that person looks different or is different?" 1018 00:58:32,785 --> 00:58:36,340 -I got replaced by a short, white, bald man. 1019 00:58:38,100 --> 00:58:40,068 -I mean, this is the queen of the underworld, 1020 00:58:40,102 --> 00:58:43,140 but if queens can be kings, then kings can be queens. 1021 00:58:43,174 --> 00:58:46,281 This is Charlie Hodges. 1022 00:58:46,315 --> 00:58:47,938 He's in L.A. 1023 00:58:47,972 --> 00:58:50,872 There it is not quite 00 in the morning, 1024 00:58:50,906 --> 00:58:53,253 so he is working through breakfast. 1025 00:58:53,288 --> 00:58:54,323 -Hello? 1026 00:58:54,358 --> 00:58:56,567 -Hello, Maria. 1027 00:58:56,602 --> 00:58:59,052 Maria is working through dinner hours. 1028 00:58:59,087 --> 00:59:01,607 Oh, it's great. We can work around the clock. 1029 00:59:01,641 --> 00:59:03,298 Yes. 1030 00:59:05,127 --> 00:59:06,853 Ooh. 1031 00:59:16,898 --> 00:59:18,969 Okay, that's the idea. 1032 00:59:19,003 --> 00:59:22,110 Time lag here will totally make me crazy, I am sure. 1033 00:59:22,144 --> 00:59:26,079 We're like in three totally different times zones. 1034 00:59:26,114 --> 00:59:29,600 And I of course expect to see perfect unison. 1035 00:59:29,635 --> 00:59:31,844 -Can I do a synchronization test? 1036 00:59:31,878 --> 00:59:34,743 Six, seven. 1037 00:59:34,778 --> 00:59:36,676 -Uh, Maria is behind. 1038 00:59:36,711 --> 00:59:39,092 One! 1039 00:59:39,127 --> 00:59:41,612 We're like four counts out of sync. 1040 00:59:41,647 --> 00:59:43,200 Where's the sound? Hold on. 1041 00:59:43,234 --> 00:59:45,651 We're having a technical difficulty at the moment. 1042 00:59:45,685 --> 00:59:48,654 Can you understand me, sweetie? I have no idea. 1043 00:59:48,688 --> 00:59:50,207 -Just got to be able to turn at the right time. 1044 00:59:50,241 --> 00:59:52,105 -Okay. 1045 00:59:52,140 --> 00:59:54,694 -Why can I not understand him? I need help. 1046 00:59:54,729 --> 00:59:57,870 Maria, can you try to jump forward one count? 1047 00:59:57,904 --> 00:59:59,112 Charlie, count. 1048 00:59:59,147 --> 01:00:01,874 The problems are manifold. 1049 01:00:01,908 --> 01:00:04,324 It's one thing for me to get dancers into unison. 1050 01:00:04,359 --> 01:00:08,674 It's another for me to have a character actually convey 1051 01:00:08,708 --> 01:00:11,711 that they are in love with this character. 1052 01:00:11,746 --> 01:00:14,162 And I'm not sure that that is accomplishable. 1053 01:00:16,371 --> 01:00:19,098 Okay. Pretty good. 1054 01:00:19,132 --> 01:00:21,721 Is anybody watching the screen here at the end 1055 01:00:21,756 --> 01:00:23,412 for our unison phrase? 1056 01:00:23,447 --> 01:00:26,277 We're saying, "Well, really, the spaces join," and guess what. 1057 01:00:26,312 --> 01:00:27,934 Really, they don't. 1058 01:00:27,969 --> 01:00:30,143 The problem of getting a dancer 1059 01:00:30,178 --> 01:00:33,802 to get exactly to the same point in their space 1060 01:00:33,837 --> 01:00:36,909 that will read exactly the same area 1061 01:00:36,943 --> 01:00:38,393 that the other one's coming in on 1062 01:00:38,427 --> 01:00:40,084 so that they actually -- 1063 01:00:40,119 --> 01:00:41,223 Not going to happen. 1064 01:00:43,363 --> 01:00:46,781 Oy. I'm not sure that's a good enough entry point. 1065 01:00:46,815 --> 01:00:49,404 Uh, I didn't buy that unison. 1066 01:00:49,438 --> 01:00:53,235 I did not perceive that it would perhaps be as extreme as this. 1067 01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:56,204 I'll see you tomorrow. Thank you very, very much. 1068 01:00:56,238 --> 01:00:59,000 Oh, boy. 1069 01:01:21,194 --> 01:01:24,439 -I had no idea I would end up working here. 1070 01:01:24,473 --> 01:01:27,166 At age 20, I started running budgets, 1071 01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,203 and we ran the tours. 1072 01:01:30,238 --> 01:01:33,103 And that was the beginning of my work here. 1073 01:01:33,137 --> 01:01:35,105 I've had so many opportunities 1074 01:01:35,139 --> 01:01:37,901 to experience all of these projects, 1075 01:01:37,935 --> 01:01:40,282 but in experiencing these projects, 1076 01:01:40,317 --> 01:01:42,112 I've gotten to know my mom. 1077 01:01:42,146 --> 01:01:44,148 We've got a sustainable relationship. 1078 01:01:44,183 --> 01:01:48,843 You know, we've gotten to a point where we're solid. 1079 01:01:48,877 --> 01:01:51,362 -So, honey. -Yes? 1080 01:01:51,397 --> 01:01:54,952 -You know, we have got some real issues here. 1081 01:01:54,987 --> 01:01:58,059 I think there's some humongous problems. 1082 01:01:58,093 --> 01:02:02,028 I mean, you know, she comes in, in black, 1083 01:02:02,063 --> 01:02:04,065 then she comes in, in yellow. 1084 01:02:04,099 --> 01:02:07,171 One day, Misty's there, and then she's not. 1085 01:02:07,206 --> 01:02:09,104 Suddenly, she's Charlie. 1086 01:02:09,139 --> 01:02:11,037 I mean, what do we got, a shape-shifter here? 1087 01:02:13,315 --> 01:02:16,387 The performers -- all four of them are fabulous, 1088 01:02:16,422 --> 01:02:19,390 but it's just technical issues. 1089 01:02:19,425 --> 01:02:22,324 I mean, you know, plus the thing about all the backgrounds 1090 01:02:22,359 --> 01:02:24,223 are different. 1091 01:02:24,257 --> 01:02:26,812 Nothing feels as though they're in the same space. 1092 01:02:26,846 --> 01:02:28,192 I mean, do you buy 1093 01:02:28,227 --> 01:02:31,299 that these guys are really working together? 1094 01:02:31,333 --> 01:02:35,993 I think I like very much that you're able to be together. 1095 01:02:36,028 --> 01:02:37,443 I like the intimacy. 1096 01:02:37,477 --> 01:02:40,066 Do you feel that you're able to be intimate? 1097 01:02:40,101 --> 01:02:43,552 -I agree with that. -This is a whole new territory. 1098 01:02:43,587 --> 01:02:45,175 -I don't know, sweetie. 1099 01:02:45,209 --> 01:02:49,593 It just is, like, there are so many small flaws. 1100 01:03:30,427 --> 01:03:35,087 -"White Knights" was a film that was written for Baryshnikov 1101 01:03:35,121 --> 01:03:39,505 and a wonderful tap dancer named Greg Hines. 1102 01:03:39,539 --> 01:03:42,059 -Whoa! -Yeah. 1103 01:03:42,094 --> 01:03:44,613 -And then we could continue somehow from here. 1104 01:03:44,648 --> 01:03:46,029 -Yes. Here. 1105 01:03:46,063 --> 01:03:48,583 My job was to referee. 1106 01:03:48,617 --> 01:03:51,897 The challenge here was that they were both great dancers, 1107 01:03:51,931 --> 01:03:54,382 but obviously of totally different backgrounds. 1108 01:03:54,416 --> 01:03:57,419 One's a tap dancer, and the other's ballet dancer. 1109 01:03:57,454 --> 01:03:59,214 Misha can't tap. 1110 01:03:59,249 --> 01:04:01,251 Greg doesn't have, you know, a classical technique. 1111 01:04:01,285 --> 01:04:03,598 And it was trying to get them somehow 1112 01:04:03,632 --> 01:04:05,393 so they could work together. -We could do something like... 1113 01:04:09,984 --> 01:04:11,537 -I think we're getting something! 1114 01:04:11,571 --> 01:04:13,159 I think it's called the end. 1115 01:04:13,194 --> 01:04:16,576 We got the end, guys. 1116 01:04:29,106 --> 01:04:32,454 -At the same time I was working with Misha and Greg, 1117 01:04:32,489 --> 01:04:37,149 I was improvising in the studio by myself every morning, 1118 01:04:37,183 --> 01:04:39,634 making new material for a new dance. 1119 01:04:42,430 --> 01:04:46,020 The company had some really tough times 1120 01:04:46,054 --> 01:04:48,919 with overloads of one kind and another. 1121 01:04:48,954 --> 01:04:51,404 And in order to make another piece, 1122 01:04:51,439 --> 01:04:53,199 I had to make it differently. 1123 01:04:53,234 --> 01:04:57,686 It was a culmination. 1124 01:04:57,721 --> 01:05:01,138 "In The Upper Room" is one of those very rare pieces 1125 01:05:01,173 --> 01:05:02,933 where you just bite the bullet and say, 1126 01:05:02,968 --> 01:05:05,315 "I'm going to say it all right here 1127 01:05:05,349 --> 01:05:07,351 and put it all on the line." 1128 01:05:20,744 --> 01:05:22,608 -For "In The Upper Room," 1129 01:05:22,642 --> 01:05:25,749 I began with the deeply grounded movement 1130 01:05:25,783 --> 01:05:29,201 of earlier works in order to make one piece 1131 01:05:29,235 --> 01:05:34,482 that took hold of everything that I had learned and felt 1132 01:05:34,516 --> 01:05:36,346 and experienced and believed, 1133 01:05:36,380 --> 01:05:39,211 and it was all going into one dance. 1134 01:05:44,181 --> 01:05:49,497 Phil Glass's music had a very important role 1135 01:05:49,531 --> 01:05:53,708 in how I heard music for a very long time. 1136 01:05:53,742 --> 01:05:56,297 I felt a special kind of power in it, 1137 01:05:56,331 --> 01:05:59,093 and I wanted to commission Phil to do a score. 1138 01:06:13,762 --> 01:06:16,041 I've had many great experiences 1139 01:06:16,075 --> 01:06:18,595 working with many great designers, 1140 01:06:18,629 --> 01:06:20,528 but two in particular -- 1141 01:06:20,562 --> 01:06:23,358 Jennifer Tipton and Santo Loquasto -- 1142 01:06:23,393 --> 01:06:26,672 have worked with me in over 50 pieces. 1143 01:06:26,706 --> 01:06:29,192 For "In The Upper Room," 1144 01:06:29,226 --> 01:06:32,057 they make it possible for dancers to materialize 1145 01:06:32,091 --> 01:06:35,301 out of thin air in front of your eyes. 1146 01:06:57,668 --> 01:07:00,326 Once and for all, 1147 01:07:00,361 --> 01:07:03,674 the notion of the grounded modern world 1148 01:07:03,709 --> 01:07:09,232 can be joined into the lighter, speedier way of the ballet. 1149 01:07:12,269 --> 01:07:15,410 All of this would become one work. 1150 01:07:21,140 --> 01:07:24,074 Great dancers are great athletes, 1151 01:07:24,109 --> 01:07:26,594 and this is clear in "In The Upper Room." 1152 01:07:30,115 --> 01:07:35,568 Performing it requires a blend of power, grace, flexibility, 1153 01:07:35,603 --> 01:07:38,640 stamina, speed, and heart. 1154 01:07:53,276 --> 01:07:56,555 "In The Upper Room" was wildly popular, 1155 01:07:56,589 --> 01:07:59,661 and, yes, everyone wanted it to tour. 1156 01:07:59,696 --> 01:08:04,356 And it could perform every night of every year 1157 01:08:04,390 --> 01:08:06,116 for the rest of everybody's lives, 1158 01:08:06,151 --> 01:08:08,291 but that was not what I wanted to do. 1159 01:08:08,325 --> 01:08:10,431 It wasn't what other people needed to do. 1160 01:08:10,465 --> 01:08:12,295 The machine had taken over. 1161 01:08:12,329 --> 01:08:13,882 We were working for the machine. 1162 01:08:13,917 --> 01:08:15,746 We were working for the company. 1163 01:08:15,781 --> 01:08:17,507 It wasn't working for us. 1164 01:08:17,541 --> 01:08:22,201 We can't fulfill what's being demanded of us. 1165 01:08:22,236 --> 01:08:24,617 It had to stop. 1166 01:08:24,652 --> 01:08:29,277 The company disbanded, and I went on to do other work. 1167 01:08:38,286 --> 01:08:40,806 I'd like to begin with -- 1168 01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:44,361 Charlie is going to be standing in for Misty tomorrow. 1169 01:08:44,396 --> 01:08:48,434 Misty is not recovered back. 1170 01:08:48,469 --> 01:08:51,334 So Charlie is going to be stone-shoed. 1171 01:08:59,583 --> 01:09:01,206 Okay, hold it! 1172 01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,623 Excellent, Charlie and Herman. Very good. 1173 01:09:04,657 --> 01:09:07,936 Charlie, you want to be out with the chaîné by the one, okay? 1174 01:09:07,971 --> 01:09:09,593 You were going -- You were a hair late getting out. 1175 01:09:09,628 --> 01:09:11,319 Alright, not too bad. 1176 01:09:11,354 --> 01:09:14,219 Thank you, both of you, very, very much. 1177 01:09:18,015 --> 01:09:20,811 -Hello. Hi, honey. Good morning. 1178 01:09:20,846 --> 01:09:22,537 We're gonna in put on a piece of music. 1179 01:09:22,572 --> 01:09:24,677 I'm not going to tell you anything about it. 1180 01:09:24,712 --> 01:09:27,887 Just do it on the timing you want to use. 1181 01:09:36,413 --> 01:09:39,830 -I've had very classical training at Vaganova Academy. 1182 01:09:39,865 --> 01:09:40,900 I've never done this before. 1183 01:09:40,935 --> 01:09:43,455 I'm used to doing, like, all of these arabesques 1184 01:09:43,489 --> 01:09:46,216 and all of the very strict classical positions. 1185 01:09:46,251 --> 01:09:48,805 So, after I finish the rond de jambe... 1186 01:09:48,839 --> 01:09:51,014 -Yeah. Yep. 1187 01:09:51,048 --> 01:09:53,948 Yep, yep, yep. 1188 01:09:53,982 --> 01:09:56,709 Right. Now fall. Fall. 1189 01:09:56,744 --> 01:09:57,848 That's it! That's it! 1190 01:09:57,883 --> 01:10:00,713 Tight! Yes, that's it! Right! 1191 01:10:00,748 --> 01:10:02,232 Didn't that feel good, Maria? 1192 01:10:02,267 --> 01:10:04,338 It looked good. 1193 01:10:07,341 --> 01:10:12,863 -Twyla pushed me into making discoveries about myself. 1194 01:10:12,898 --> 01:10:17,454 Twyla is really opening the artistic freedom. 1195 01:10:17,489 --> 01:10:19,525 -Talk to me. How did that feel? 1196 01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:21,355 Unsafe? -It's thrilling in a way. 1197 01:10:21,389 --> 01:10:23,771 Like, it's exciting. -Oh, that's good. 1198 01:10:23,805 --> 01:10:27,326 -No, it's very interesting for me to explore things like this 1199 01:10:27,361 --> 01:10:29,259 because I'm always like, you know, like this. 1200 01:10:29,294 --> 01:10:30,985 But I want to break free a little bit, you know? 1201 01:10:31,019 --> 01:10:32,400 -Right. Okay. 1202 01:10:32,435 --> 01:10:34,747 This is one of the things that 1203 01:10:34,782 --> 01:10:39,338 I would like to be able to impart to you. 1204 01:10:39,373 --> 01:10:43,308 Keep your technique for your whole career. 1205 01:10:43,342 --> 01:10:44,481 It's beautiful. 1206 01:10:44,516 --> 01:10:46,311 Don't ever lose it. 1207 01:10:46,345 --> 01:10:48,589 But learn how to work around it. 1208 01:10:48,623 --> 01:10:50,763 You pass through academically correct 1209 01:10:50,798 --> 01:10:54,042 and go somewhere else with it and come back to it. 1210 01:10:54,077 --> 01:10:57,011 Alright. Thank you, Maria. -Thank you so much. 1211 01:10:57,045 --> 01:10:58,633 -I'll see you soon. -Thank you. 1212 01:11:00,014 --> 01:11:03,017 -I never stopped working with dancers. 1213 01:11:03,051 --> 01:11:05,571 We toured. We made new work. 1214 01:11:05,606 --> 01:11:09,299 And in 2002, we were back on Broadway. 1215 01:11:14,408 --> 01:11:16,824 -I had made some movement on Billy's music, 1216 01:11:16,858 --> 01:11:18,481 which I showed him. 1217 01:11:18,515 --> 01:11:20,862 Billy says, "I like that. What do you want from me?" 1218 01:11:20,897 --> 01:11:23,313 I said, "All your music." He said, "Okay." 1219 01:11:23,348 --> 01:11:24,797 About three hours later, 1220 01:11:24,832 --> 01:11:26,868 I have every single album he ever made. 1221 01:11:26,903 --> 01:11:28,836 I put them in chronological order. 1222 01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:30,769 I listened to them from first to last. 1223 01:11:30,803 --> 01:11:33,427 I call him up three days later. I said, "Okay, I have it." 1224 01:11:38,742 --> 01:11:41,020 -This is "Movin' Out," 1225 01:11:41,055 --> 01:11:44,886 the first Broadway show starring the magic of Twyla Tharp 1226 01:11:44,921 --> 01:11:48,096 and the music of Billy Joel. 1227 01:11:48,131 --> 01:11:51,065 Call Ticketmaster now. 1228 01:11:56,933 --> 01:12:00,385 -"Sing to me, Muse, of the rage of Achilles." 1229 01:12:00,419 --> 01:12:02,697 It is Odysseus. 1230 01:12:02,732 --> 01:12:05,942 So, it is the hero and the hero's return. 1231 01:12:05,976 --> 01:12:10,740 So, I heard in Eddie his return after the war, 1232 01:12:10,774 --> 01:12:11,913 after the Vietnam war, 1233 01:12:11,948 --> 01:12:15,400 and the steps, the trials he would have to go through 1234 01:12:15,434 --> 01:12:18,817 were those of the returning warriors, 1235 01:12:18,851 --> 01:12:22,441 veterans from the Vietnam war 1236 01:12:22,476 --> 01:12:26,445 and the ways in which this culture basically spat on them. 1237 01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:29,068 And that was the spine of "Movin' Out." 1238 01:12:39,424 --> 01:12:42,530 And she had a vision in her head about what she wanted. 1239 01:12:42,565 --> 01:12:45,153 It was so intense. 1240 01:12:45,188 --> 01:12:47,466 It was something I couldn't say no to. 1241 01:12:47,501 --> 01:12:51,815 A lot of energy in a small woman, almost intimidating. 1242 01:12:51,850 --> 01:12:53,541 And I thought, "Oh, this is somebody who's --" 1243 01:12:53,576 --> 01:12:54,853 You don't want to get in the way. 1244 01:12:54,887 --> 01:12:56,613 Like, get out of her way. 1245 01:12:56,648 --> 01:12:58,788 And that's how the collaboration worked. 1246 01:12:58,822 --> 01:13:01,515 I pretty much stayed out of the way, and she ran it. 1247 01:13:10,731 --> 01:13:12,871 Alright, here we go! 1248 01:13:12,905 --> 01:13:15,667 I'm a songwriter -- I'm literal. 1249 01:13:15,701 --> 01:13:18,980 I didn't really know where she was going, 1250 01:13:19,015 --> 01:13:23,813 how to connect the songs and make it work all as one piece 1251 01:13:23,847 --> 01:13:25,746 'cause they're individual songs. 1252 01:13:25,780 --> 01:13:30,613 But she was doing an allegory with the lyrics. 1253 01:13:30,647 --> 01:13:33,650 And I don't -- That had never been attempted before. 1254 01:13:33,685 --> 01:13:35,652 I was scared to death. 1255 01:13:35,687 --> 01:13:38,828 But she had the confidence and the vision 1256 01:13:38,862 --> 01:13:40,208 to know it was going to work. 1257 01:13:44,696 --> 01:13:48,493 And these people are throwing themselves around the stage. 1258 01:13:48,527 --> 01:13:51,185 You know, I was worried about people getting injured. 1259 01:13:51,219 --> 01:13:54,947 It was so energetic and so physically demanding. 1260 01:13:54,982 --> 01:13:58,054 You know, I felt like, "Take it easy," you know? 1261 01:13:58,088 --> 01:14:00,263 "Watch out. Watch out for the edge of the stage." 1262 01:14:00,297 --> 01:14:02,990 They were, like, risking life and limb every night. 1263 01:14:20,939 --> 01:14:25,012 -Here I am in this impasse with this Zoom quandary. 1264 01:14:25,046 --> 01:14:26,738 We're in all their living spaces, 1265 01:14:26,772 --> 01:14:28,222 and I'm trying to make theater out of it. 1266 01:14:28,256 --> 01:14:30,155 Who else are you going to call but Santo? 1267 01:14:30,189 --> 01:14:32,847 -He's here. -Hello. 1268 01:14:32,882 --> 01:14:35,609 Santo makes theatrical experiences. 1269 01:14:35,643 --> 01:14:36,782 -How you doing? 1270 01:14:36,817 --> 01:14:40,268 -We need unity. He'll fix it. 1271 01:14:40,303 --> 01:14:42,788 They're in totally different spaces. 1272 01:14:42,823 --> 01:14:44,100 That's the biggest problem. 1273 01:14:44,134 --> 01:14:46,654 And I'm trying to connect them into a narrative. 1274 01:14:46,689 --> 01:14:49,105 If you were doing it properly, they'd all be on the same set, 1275 01:14:49,139 --> 01:14:51,556 you'd have your crew, you'd have it all set up. 1276 01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:53,316 -But it will ultimately be like that? 1277 01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:56,008 -No. -Oh, it will remain on Zoom. 1278 01:14:56,043 --> 01:14:57,941 -It will remain -- 1279 01:14:57,976 --> 01:15:00,530 -It remains virtual, as they say. 1280 01:15:00,565 --> 01:15:02,014 -It remains virtual. 1281 01:15:02,049 --> 01:15:04,638 You don't have a crew. You don't have hair. 1282 01:15:04,672 --> 01:15:06,812 You don't have all of the elements. 1283 01:15:06,847 --> 01:15:08,296 Your lighting is never going to be comparable. 1284 01:15:08,331 --> 01:15:10,057 You are screwed. 1285 01:15:10,091 --> 01:15:13,854 Why don't we look at that and see what it actually is? 1286 01:17:46,454 --> 01:17:48,387 It's fun. -Oh, you're so cute. 1287 01:17:48,422 --> 01:17:50,355 I actually got a chuckle. -It's -- 1288 01:17:50,389 --> 01:17:53,289 -You warmed my heart. -Well, you know, it's Jewish. 1289 01:17:53,323 --> 01:17:56,223 -Yeah, I know it's Jewish. I did know that. 1290 01:17:56,257 --> 01:17:58,915 I knew I could bias you that way. 1291 01:17:58,950 --> 01:18:01,262 -That's alright. I mean, you know, what can I say? 1292 01:18:01,297 --> 01:18:02,850 Irresistible. -Yes. 1293 01:18:02,885 --> 01:18:04,818 -Um... -So, you see the issues. 1294 01:18:04,852 --> 01:18:06,820 Really, my question is this -- 1295 01:18:06,854 --> 01:18:09,995 do you feel that it would be more effective 1296 01:18:10,030 --> 01:18:13,447 if the backgrounds were alike? 1297 01:18:13,481 --> 01:18:17,002 If we had a void, which is how we would shoot this 1298 01:18:17,037 --> 01:18:18,728 if we had them all in one place -- 1299 01:18:18,763 --> 01:18:22,283 -I love the funkiness of this. 1300 01:18:22,318 --> 01:18:24,734 -You do? 1301 01:18:24,769 --> 01:18:25,908 Been on Broadway too long. 1302 01:18:25,942 --> 01:18:29,256 -It's short. -It's very short. 1303 01:18:29,290 --> 01:18:31,223 -I think it will become 1304 01:18:31,258 --> 01:18:33,916 like early dance in America, if you will. 1305 01:18:33,950 --> 01:18:36,263 -Ah! -Oh! 1306 01:18:36,297 --> 01:18:38,092 -We were early dance in America, if you'll recall. 1307 01:18:38,127 --> 01:18:41,440 -Oh, that was you! -That was us! 1308 01:18:41,475 --> 01:18:43,373 That was you, too! 1309 01:18:43,408 --> 01:18:45,859 -But you know what I mean. -I do know what you mean. 1310 01:18:45,893 --> 01:18:49,034 -I worry that it looks as though we're trying for something 1311 01:18:49,069 --> 01:18:51,278 which will be... 1312 01:18:51,312 --> 01:18:52,935 -Not accomplishable, 1313 01:18:52,969 --> 01:18:55,178 which is what I wanted to talk to you about. 1314 01:18:55,213 --> 01:18:57,940 -No, no, this is -- this is very good 1315 01:18:57,974 --> 01:19:00,114 because it feels so unedited. 1316 01:19:00,149 --> 01:19:02,565 -Okay. -I think it's quite marvelous. 1317 01:19:02,599 --> 01:19:04,049 Well, you've been busy. 1318 01:19:04,084 --> 01:19:06,465 -Thank you. Yeah, right. 1319 01:19:08,985 --> 01:19:13,231 I have been very busy, very, very busy, 1320 01:19:13,265 --> 01:19:17,166 for this allows me to be in the company of dancers. 1321 01:20:03,039 --> 01:20:06,215 -Dancers give me their hopes and their dreams, 1322 01:20:06,249 --> 01:20:12,048 and together we work to redefine what is possible, 1323 01:20:12,083 --> 01:20:18,572 for they will find unimaginable solutions to my dilemmas. 1324 01:20:18,606 --> 01:20:22,541 All dancers know that there is only one way out, 1325 01:20:22,576 --> 01:20:25,959 and that is forward. 1326 01:20:49,361 --> 01:20:53,227 -So I can only say thank you to so many dancers 1327 01:20:53,262 --> 01:20:57,128 who have sustained my belief in tomorrow. 1328 01:20:57,162 --> 01:21:01,028 And thank you for your help in digging us out 1329 01:21:01,063 --> 01:21:04,031 every single time. 1330 01:21:08,001 --> 01:21:10,417 Do I feel like overall I've completed my mission? 1331 01:21:10,451 --> 01:21:12,453 Not yet.