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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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(car door closes)

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(engine starts)

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(intense digital music playing)

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Scott Wapner:
<i>He started from nothing</i>
<i>and built a fortune</i>

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<i>worth upwards
of $20 billion.</i>

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♪ ♪

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reporter:<i> It is not often</i>
<i>that a Wall Street titan</i>

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<i>shows up on the cover
of "Time" magazine.</i>

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reporter 2:<i> The most feared</i>
<i>corporate raider in the world.</i>

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reporter 3:
<i>One of the shrewdest</i>
<i>investors on the planet.</i>

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reporter 4:
<i>He moves markets</i>

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<i>by the mere
mention of his name.</i>

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reporter 5:
<i>"Fortune" magazine says</i>

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<i>he may be making
more money for shareholders</i>

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<i>than anyone else on the planet.</i>

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(applause)

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Gail Golden-Icahn:
<i>He's tenacious.</i>

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-man 1:<i> Enigma.</i>
-man 2:<i> The smartest guy</i>
<i>I've ever met.</i>

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woman:
<i>He's the great white shark</i>

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<i>in the sea of capitalism.</i>

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Carl Icahn:<i> My mother said</i>
<i>I have some kind of warrior</i>
<i>gene in me or something.</i>

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interviewer:
<i>A warrior gene?</i>

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various voices:
<i>Marvel Comics, Time Warner,</i>
<i>Texaco, US Steel,</i>

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<i>Dell Computers,
Apple, PayPal, Caesars.</i>

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reporter:<i> Motorola. Yahoo...</i>
<i>all have felt</i>

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<i>the pointed sting
of Carl Icahn.</i>

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I do it because
in a free enterprise system,
I do it for profit,

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but what I do should be done.

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-Totally terrifying.
-Bully.

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Great guy, but he's about
as smooth as a stucco bathtub.

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I own it, it's my money.

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If I lose, I'm answerable
to my bank account.

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♪ ♪

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I'm 85, you say, this guy's 85.
Pretty good, right?

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I can get some real heat on 'em.

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<i>I don't like to start wars,</i>

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<i>but if somebody wants
to start it with me,</i>

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<i>there's something in me
that likes that</i>

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<i>'cause I'm really looking
forward to going at 'em.</i>

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♪ ♪

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Wall Street, they look
at Carl Icahn and they say

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legend, they say genius.

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There's an admiration

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for what he's been able
to accomplish

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and the wealth
that he's created.

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The public, I think,
has a much more mixed view

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about the impact he's had
on companies,

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on labor, on society.

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♪ ♪

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<i>Then the question is</i>

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<i>whether he is
a activist investor,</i>

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<i>an advocate
for the shareholder,</i>

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<i>representing the little guy,</i>

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<i>or corporate raider
who goes in,</i>

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<i>extracts value
out of that company</i>

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<i>to the detriment
of the long-term company</i>

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but to the immediate benefit
of Carl Icahn.

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Let me do it.
No, I wouldn't say it that way.

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It's sort of a colorful term,
"corporate raider,"

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but it's far from the truth.

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Absolutely is ridiculous
related to what we do.

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It's the opposite of what we do.

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We bring things to the party.

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We don't raid 'em
and take 'em out.

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That's why I think eventually
it was changed to "activist."

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But activist or raider,

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I haven't changed
what I do one iota.

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Call me whatever you want.
(chuckles)

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♪ ♪

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So, how are my boys?

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Ah, what good boys.

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Susan Gordon:
<i>He gets up about nine o'clock</i>

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and he's already,
he's eating his breakfast

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and reading the newspaper
while he's talking,

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and, you know, writing notes
and all that.

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<i>He immediately starts his day,</i>

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<i>catches up
with what the news is,
how the market's doing.</i>

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Uber's got
one thing after another.

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We work together
in his home office,

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and then, about four o'clock
in the afternoon,

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<i>he starts heading over
to his "office office"</i>

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<i>on Fifth Avenue,</i>

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<i>for meetings, or what
current crisis is going on.</i>

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Crisis manager.
I'm like Ray Donovan.

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I try to... I try to...
I try to get it done

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and then I go
into another crisis.

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There's always a few of 'em.

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<i>You don't have to
manufacture 'em.</i>

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Wapner:<i> I think the way</i>
<i>Carl looks at business</i>

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and the way he does things
is he tries to identify
companies

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that he thinks are undervalued,

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and he'll secretly build
a position

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until it gets large enough that
he has to reveal the size.

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<i>And he'll try and put pressure
on the CEO to do what he wants,</i>

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whether that's doing a merger
or a share buyback.

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<i>And in more cases than not,
over the years,</i>

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the CEO will end up doing
something that he wants

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and the stock price will go up
and Carl will make
a lot of money.

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Meissonier's, it's "Napoleon
at the Battle of Friedland."

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Before hubris took over

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and took it all away from him.

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He was one of... Well, he was
a great strategist, no question.

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But then he lost it all
because of his arrogance.

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And that's one thing
you have to remember.

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It doesn't stay forever
if you're not careful.

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(discordant percussive
music playing)

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(intense digital music
playing)

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reporter:<i> Carl Icahn, I guess,</i>
<i>doing what Carl Icahn does,</i>

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<i>and he is on the attack.</i>

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reporter 2:<i> Carl, what do you</i>
<i>object to most strongly?</i>

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Carl:
<i>I object to the fact</i>

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<i>that they did a acquisition</i>

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<i>that puts the company at risk</i>

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<i>and didn't go to the board
members for a vote.</i>

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Andrew Langham: Somebody
from Reuters just called.

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-What did they say?
-They want to understand
what we're doing.

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You know, we want to remove
some of the directors
and put us in.

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They know I'm not going away,
so we just,

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we just keep,
we keep going.

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The idea of an activist investor

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is they buy a stake
in a company

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with the plan and ambition

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to go to the company's
management and board and say,

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"You're doing it wrong.
Here's how to do it."

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Carl:
Yeah, how you doing?

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I don't have to tell you
anything you don't know.

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I mean, I think it was
reprehensible what went on.

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I think they got no right
to do that without talking
to the shareholders.

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You know,
they're betting the company,
it's not their money.

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He looks at boards
and he looks at CEOs

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as country club boards.

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They spend no time thinking
about the company.

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They're collecting their fee
and they're playing golf
all day.

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Andrew Ross Sorkin:
<i>The board of directors</i>
<i>of a company</i>

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<i>are supposed to represent</i>

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<i>the interests
of the shareholders.</i>

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They are supposed to hold

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the CEO and management
to account.

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That is their job.

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Whether they do it is
Carl Icahn's biggest question.

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(percussive music playing)

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Hey, who the hell put this out?

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Who got this out, that we're
replacing four directors?

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-Yeah.
-We just told them that.

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You told them
'cause I told you.
We filed it, and so...

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(laughs) Oh, yes, we filed.
This is what he just filed.

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That's just what we was talking,
and they already put this out.

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Huh.

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Hey, we said
a lot worse than this.
We didn't say anything bad.

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Langham: We said a lot worse
a month ago.

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Here it is, it just
happened while you were here.

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It was a very...
you guys were here

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at the making of
a lot of history today, guys.

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It's not a sure thing that
when you take a big decision

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and tell a CEO what to do,
they're going to listen.

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It's also not a sure thing
that your advice is
the right thing to do.

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You need chutzpah.

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You're taking on big-deal CEOs.

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You're taking on their lawyers.

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It's a very high-stakes game.

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You can make billions,
but you can also lose it.

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That is stressful.

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-Hey, Gail,
-Gail: Yes?

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Come in here
for a minute.

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Oh, I'm his consigliere.

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At night time, we join up
and then go home together.

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Bruce David Klein:
What do you think drives him?

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Oh! (sighs)

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It isn't money,
strangely enough.

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You would think
it would be money.

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I mean, it's nice
that he can do it,
but it's not money.

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He just becomes
obsessed on something

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and he just keeps
like a bulldog,

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he just keeps going and going
until he gets what he wants.

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So... that's what drives him.

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I told him it's winning,
I think, competitive,
just winning.

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Coming up with a new idea
to beat the competitors.

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You know, we're gonna
be able to be

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the biggest and the best.

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That gets me excited.

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♪ ♪

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<i>The money is just
sort of a goal.</i>

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<i>It's like, the explorers,
why do they keep doing it?</i>

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<i>They believed in going
for the gold, like Cortés
and these guys.</i>

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<i>But I think the actual
finding and doing</i>

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<i>is much more exciting
than having it.</i>

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♪ ♪

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<i>And I think
that's why you find</i>

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<i>a lot of rich people
get very neurotic.</i>

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<i>'Cause they're disappointed
when they have it.</i>

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<i>It's not what it's
drummed up to be.</i>

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♪ ♪

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reporter:
<i>He's been successful,</i>
<i>say Wall Streeters,</i>

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<i>because he's intimidating
and relentless.</i>

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<i>He was an only child
growing up during
the Depression</i>

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<i>in Far Rockaway, Queens,
New York.</i>

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<i>And even as a kid, his mother
said he was like Genghis Khan.</i>

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<i>He loves a good fight,
no doubt about it.</i>

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(percussive music playing)

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announcer:
<i>Tappan. Tappan.</i>

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<i>The name is Tappan.
Tappan... Tappan...</i>

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Mark Stevens:
<i>So in the late '70s,</i>
<i>Carl turned his attention</i>

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to a company called Tappan.

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<i>Tappan made ranges,</i>

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<i>and it was a good
brand-name range.</i>

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Bob Barker:
<i>Showcase number 2.</i>

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-announcer:<i> A new kitchen!</i>
-(audience gasps)

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<i>An electric range
from the famous Tappan.</i>

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<i>Quality appliances since 1881.</i>

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Tappan has its first loss
in nearly half a century.

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Because of the loss, and loss
of faith in the company,

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the stock plummeted

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to I think about
seven or eight bucks.

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So Carl does his calculations,

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assesses the valuation
of the company

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<i>between the stock price</i>

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<i>and the ultimate value
of the company.</i>

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<i>And there's a gap of about $15
that Carl feels is there.</i>

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Carl:<i> Well, we believed the</i>
<i>company was very undervalued.</i>

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And Tappan fit
the program for me

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where I was embarking
on activism,

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where I thought it was
a great company, a great name,

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that could be
a takeover candidate

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being blocked by,
you know, the CEO

227
00:11:47.667 --> 00:11:48.876
<i>and a board.</i>

228
00:11:48.959 --> 00:11:51.834
<i>The CEO was
a very strong personality,</i>

229
00:11:51.918 --> 00:11:55.959
<i>but I don't think he knew
much about the business.</i>

230
00:11:56.042 --> 00:11:59.125
<i>And Dick Tappan was
the founder's grandson.</i>

231
00:11:59.209 --> 00:12:02.459
<i>I think he was intimidated
by this guy Blasius.</i>

232
00:12:02.542 --> 00:12:06.584
<i>And I thought there was
a chance here to break through.</i>

233
00:12:06.667 --> 00:12:08.834
So we went and bought
a lot of stock in it.

234
00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:14.584
And, uh, we would then
make a little noise.

235
00:12:16.959 --> 00:12:19.167
(intense digital music playing)

236
00:12:24.334 --> 00:12:27.751
Carl:<i> "I'm writing this letter</i>
<i>to ask you to elect me</i>

237
00:12:27.834 --> 00:12:29.584
<i>to the board of directors."</i>

238
00:12:29.667 --> 00:12:33.167
♪ ♪

239
00:12:33.250 --> 00:12:34.709
<i>"During the past five years,</i>

240
00:12:34.792 --> 00:12:37.125
<i>"Tappan, under its
current management,</i>

241
00:12:37.209 --> 00:12:39.709
<i>has lost $3.3 million."</i>

242
00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:49.500
The company is owned
by the shareholders

243
00:12:49.584 --> 00:12:51.834
and these managements felt like,

244
00:12:51.918 --> 00:12:53.751
"We don't wanna deal
with these shareholders."

245
00:12:53.834 --> 00:12:56.209
"They thought they'd get
under our skin? No."

246
00:12:58.542 --> 00:13:01.667
We ran a proxy fight
and they fought us like hell.

247
00:13:01.751 --> 00:13:04.000
♪ ♪

248
00:13:15.375 --> 00:13:18.834
It's just amazing.
Carl got a seat on the board.

249
00:13:20.667 --> 00:13:22.459
<i>I think we were the wave.</i>

250
00:13:22.542 --> 00:13:25.459
There was not anybody really
doing what we were doing.

251
00:13:25.542 --> 00:13:29.292
(relaxing music playing)

252
00:13:32.667 --> 00:13:35.292
Stevens:
<i>When Carl goes to Ohio</i>

253
00:13:35.375 --> 00:13:37.125
<i>to visit with
Tappan management,</i>

254
00:13:37.209 --> 00:13:40.125
<i>it's an orderly life there,</i>

255
00:13:40.209 --> 00:13:43.000
and everything is in
the right place.

256
00:13:45.500 --> 00:13:47.083
The CEO called me up.

257
00:13:47.167 --> 00:13:49.500
He said, "I wanna have dinner
with you before the meeting."

258
00:13:49.584 --> 00:13:53.167
<i>So I thought he'd want to have
a sort of nice chat with me.</i>

259
00:13:53.250 --> 00:13:55.417
And he looked at me and he was
sort of fierce-looking.

260
00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:59.083
He said, "Look,
at my board meeting,
you're an interloper.

261
00:13:59.167 --> 00:14:02.375
"I don't want you to say
anything at the meetings.

262
00:14:02.459 --> 00:14:06.083
I don't want you to disturb
the rest of the board
and we can get along better."

263
00:14:06.167 --> 00:14:08.000
And I was just
beginning this stuff.

264
00:14:08.083 --> 00:14:10.876
Today, I would have
told him to go to hell.

265
00:14:10.959 --> 00:14:13.083
Alfred Kingsley:
<i>The next day, Carl came</i>

266
00:14:13.167 --> 00:14:14.751
and we went into the meeting,

267
00:14:14.834 --> 00:14:18.083
which was pretty contentious.

268
00:14:18.167 --> 00:14:21.500
Carl:<i> And the CEO decided</i>
<i>to buy another company.</i>

269
00:14:21.584 --> 00:14:23.542
<i>And he brought it
to the board.</i>

270
00:14:23.626 --> 00:14:26.959
He was gonna make
the company less valuable

271
00:14:27.042 --> 00:14:29.542
in a strange way
but him more powerful.

272
00:14:29.626 --> 00:14:34.167
And the CEO is showing
everybody with his books
and his investment bankers

273
00:14:34.250 --> 00:14:36.459
why this was
a great acquisition.

274
00:14:36.542 --> 00:14:39.292
<i>The CEO, he said, "Look, I've
done a lot of work on this.</i>

275
00:14:39.375 --> 00:14:43.209
<i>I just want a vote
that agrees with me."</i>

276
00:14:43.292 --> 00:14:47.959
And this one guy on the board
who never really spoke either

277
00:14:48.042 --> 00:14:50.792
but who owned a lot of stock,
he said, "Just a minute."

278
00:14:50.876 --> 00:14:52.500
<i>He says, "I'm looking at this.</i>

279
00:14:52.584 --> 00:14:55.250
<i>I just don't understand
why we're buying it
with these numbers."</i>

280
00:14:55.334 --> 00:14:58.918
The CEO, he says, "Are you
questioning my judgment?"

281
00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:00.209
He's glaring at the guy.

282
00:15:00.292 --> 00:15:03.709
<i>He says, "Sit down and vote
with all of us."</i>

283
00:15:03.792 --> 00:15:06.125
<i>He really was an imperious guy.</i>

284
00:15:06.209 --> 00:15:09.000
And I'm watching
to see what to do.

285
00:15:09.083 --> 00:15:12.459
And, you know, at that time,
I didn't think anybody
would support me

286
00:15:12.542 --> 00:15:15.417
if I said anything,
but I said, "The hell
with this guy Blasius."

287
00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:18.250
By that time, I didn't give
a damn if he liked me,
didn't like me.

288
00:15:18.334 --> 00:15:20.417
(intense digital music playing)

289
00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:23.000
<i>So I go, "Screw this guy."</i>

290
00:15:23.083 --> 00:15:26.000
Stevens:
<i>In this Tappan time,</i>
<i>one could think</i>

291
00:15:26.083 --> 00:15:27.667
that Carl didn't have the...

292
00:15:27.751 --> 00:15:30.042
kahunas that he would have
later in big deals.

293
00:15:30.125 --> 00:15:31.334
He had more then.

294
00:15:31.417 --> 00:15:33.417
He had to do it with nothing.

295
00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:35.417
He didn't have
billions in the bank.

296
00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:38.834
Carl:<i> I said,</i>
<i>"You know something, guys,</i>
<i>I'll tell you what I think."</i>

297
00:15:38.918 --> 00:15:42.125
<i>"This is probably
one of the worst deals</i>

298
00:15:42.209 --> 00:15:44.500
"in, I'll say,
economic history.

299
00:15:44.584 --> 00:15:48.876
"It's insane.
We're buying this company
at ten times what it's worth,

300
00:15:48.959 --> 00:15:52.375
only," I say,
"to save Don Blasius' job.

301
00:15:52.459 --> 00:15:54.918
<i>That's why we're doing it."
I really let him have it.</i>

302
00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.250
And the guy was going nuts.
He was turning red in the face.

303
00:15:57.334 --> 00:16:00.500
He says, "What are you saying?
Are you questioning my ability?"
I said, "Yes, I am.

304
00:16:00.584 --> 00:16:04.250
I don't think you're a good
CEO, you're just gonna
kill this company."

305
00:16:04.334 --> 00:16:06.876
All of the sudden, Carl,
he's not talking,

306
00:16:06.959 --> 00:16:09.459
he's yelling, he's demanding.

307
00:16:09.542 --> 00:16:14.209
"I, for one, will do everything
I can to stop this deal,

308
00:16:14.292 --> 00:16:16.042
"and now I'm saying it
to this board,

309
00:16:16.125 --> 00:16:17.584
so now let's have the vote."

310
00:16:17.667 --> 00:16:21.542
And Blasius is looking at me,
red in the face and all.

311
00:16:21.626 --> 00:16:24.834
And he says, "We'll put off
the vote till the next meeting."

312
00:16:24.918 --> 00:16:28.500
And then he just glowered at me,
and I just looked at him,

313
00:16:28.584 --> 00:16:31.417
and that was it.

314
00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:33.292
People are scratching
their heads saying, how the--

315
00:16:33.375 --> 00:16:36.667
"What the hell just happened?
Who is this guy?"

316
00:16:36.751 --> 00:16:40.876
<i>"How did he foil the plans of
the CEO of a public company?"</i>

317
00:16:42.292 --> 00:16:44.751
<i>And then, only seven or eight
months later,</i>

318
00:16:44.834 --> 00:16:47.500
Electrolux agreed to buy Tappan

319
00:16:47.584 --> 00:16:49.834
for a little over
$18 a share...

320
00:16:49.918 --> 00:16:52.125
♪ ♪

321
00:16:52.209 --> 00:16:54.000
<i>...proving in absolute terms,</i>

322
00:16:54.083 --> 00:16:56.209
Carl was right from
the beginning.

323
00:16:56.292 --> 00:17:00.918
<i>Tappan was worth
a lot more than the $7
the stock was trading at</i>

324
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:02.876
<i>before Carl got involved.</i>

325
00:17:02.959 --> 00:17:04.959
And all the shareholders
got richer.

326
00:17:07.375 --> 00:17:08.876
Carl:<i> At the end,</i>

327
00:17:08.959 --> 00:17:10.834
<i>Dick Tappan comes over to me</i>

328
00:17:10.918 --> 00:17:13.667
and he says, "Carl, Carl,
I wanna ask you a question.

329
00:17:13.751 --> 00:17:16.083
Would you manage my money?"

330
00:17:16.167 --> 00:17:18.542
And he wanted me
to manage money for him.

331
00:17:18.626 --> 00:17:19.959
And I did for a little bit.

332
00:17:20.042 --> 00:17:23.918
(contemplative piano music
playing)

333
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.459
This is Carl, Carl Icahn on.

334
00:17:27.542 --> 00:17:29.417
If I could interrupt
for a minute.

335
00:17:29.500 --> 00:17:31.626
The CEO was just nefarious.

336
00:17:31.709 --> 00:17:35.375
He, his job in his mind was
to make himself a lot of money

337
00:17:35.459 --> 00:17:37.500
at the expense of shareholders,
he didn't care.

338
00:17:37.584 --> 00:17:40.792
And at the expense of
the company enriched himself.

339
00:17:40.876 --> 00:17:44.209
The idea that
some management teams

340
00:17:44.292 --> 00:17:46.209
were kind of not being
very smart

341
00:17:46.292 --> 00:17:49.709
and taking advantage of
their position as managers

342
00:17:49.792 --> 00:17:51.584
to the detriment
of the shareholders,

343
00:17:51.667 --> 00:17:54.042
you know, he got that
in his head early on,

344
00:17:54.125 --> 00:17:56.334
when the rest of the world
wasn't quite sure, you know,

345
00:17:56.417 --> 00:17:58.751
was this greenmail,
what, what was this?

346
00:17:58.834 --> 00:18:01.834
This is one of-- the most
reprehensible thing

347
00:18:01.918 --> 00:18:03.459
I think I've ever seen...

348
00:18:03.542 --> 00:18:06.584
But to some degree
he's been vindicated that,

349
00:18:06.667 --> 00:18:09.459
yes, management often needs
to be shaken up.

350
00:18:09.542 --> 00:18:12.167
He's helped stockholders
an awful lot,

351
00:18:12.250 --> 00:18:15.834
including plumbers and teachers
whose pension funds

352
00:18:15.918 --> 00:18:17.334
fund their retirement.

353
00:18:17.417 --> 00:18:21.042
So this is not just hoity-toity
big-time investors.

354
00:18:21.125 --> 00:18:23.209
The downside of that
is to say, yeah, but what about

355
00:18:23.292 --> 00:18:26.667
all the people
who lost jobs because of what
Carl did at all these companies?

356
00:18:26.751 --> 00:18:29.250
(somber digital music playing)

357
00:18:33.334 --> 00:18:37.626
Carl and guys like him, I think
the core criticism would be that

358
00:18:37.709 --> 00:18:39.626
they're not out to make
these companies better,

359
00:18:39.709 --> 00:18:41.334
they're out to make
a lot of money.

360
00:18:43.542 --> 00:18:46.626
Part of my values
is to make money and I
can't change my values.

361
00:18:46.709 --> 00:18:48.125
A great painter loves to paint.

362
00:18:48.209 --> 00:18:50.292
What do you do, criticize him
because he likes to paint?

363
00:18:50.375 --> 00:18:54.209
But what makes me fulfilled
about it is

364
00:18:54.292 --> 00:18:58.417
that I also believe I'm making
money by doing the right thing.

365
00:18:58.500 --> 00:19:01.292
Sorkin:<i> We've been having</i>
<i>a debate, it's an open debate,</i>

366
00:19:01.375 --> 00:19:03.584
'cause I've done it
in the columns,

367
00:19:03.667 --> 00:19:07.626
about his role as a vulture

368
00:19:07.709 --> 00:19:10.667
or a shareholder advocate,
and which is it?

369
00:19:10.751 --> 00:19:14.083
<i>And on certain days,
I've come out on the side</i>

370
00:19:14.167 --> 00:19:17.500
of shareholder advocate,
and he, you know, loves it.

371
00:19:17.584 --> 00:19:20.459
And on certain days,
I have called him a vulture,

372
00:19:20.542 --> 00:19:22.083
and he'll call up screaming.

373
00:19:23.584 --> 00:19:26.959
What I like about Carl
is he's game for the debate,

374
00:19:27.042 --> 00:19:28.792
he wants that debate.

375
00:19:28.876 --> 00:19:31.250
Carl:<i> Companies are</i>
<i>the backbone of our society,</i>

376
00:19:31.334 --> 00:19:34.375
and many are terribly managed
and there's no accountability.

377
00:19:34.459 --> 00:19:36.667
When you can change that,

378
00:19:36.751 --> 00:19:38.083
you will have
some collateral damage,

379
00:19:38.167 --> 00:19:40.751
there's no question,
it's creative destruction.

380
00:19:40.834 --> 00:19:43.083
But we bring in the innovation,

381
00:19:43.167 --> 00:19:45.959
so we have companies
that are more productive,

382
00:19:46.042 --> 00:19:48.500
create more jobs,
in a macro picture.

383
00:19:48.584 --> 00:19:49.876
At the end of the day,

384
00:19:49.959 --> 00:19:52.417
Carl wants to make as much
money as possible,

385
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:56.334
despite what he may come out
and say publicly

386
00:19:56.417 --> 00:19:58.167
or write in one of his letters.

387
00:19:58.250 --> 00:20:00.125
I mean, that's
the criticism you hear.

388
00:20:00.209 --> 00:20:02.709
Carl:<i> So everybody says,</i>
<i>"Well, that's great,</i>

389
00:20:02.792 --> 00:20:04.792
<i>Carl Icahn made money
for himself."</i>

390
00:20:04.876 --> 00:20:08.042
But the real proof of
the pudding is in the eating.

391
00:20:08.125 --> 00:20:11.959
If you had invested
in Icahn Enterprises in 2000,

392
00:20:12.042 --> 00:20:14.792
when we really started
getting into the activism,

393
00:20:14.876 --> 00:20:17.459
the value of your investment
has increased

394
00:20:17.542 --> 00:20:19.626
1,931%.

395
00:20:19.709 --> 00:20:23.042
During that same period,
your investment in the S&P

396
00:20:23.125 --> 00:20:26.709
went up only 324%.

397
00:20:28.709 --> 00:20:30.626
<i>We have made for shareholders,</i>

398
00:20:30.709 --> 00:20:32.209
<i>forgetting us,</i>

399
00:20:32.292 --> 00:20:33.709
<i>literally a trillion dollars</i>

400
00:20:33.792 --> 00:20:35.417
<i>for all investors.</i>

401
00:20:37.167 --> 00:20:39.584
I think I proved it
by making all this money.

402
00:20:39.667 --> 00:20:41.167
This system should be changed

403
00:20:41.250 --> 00:20:43.292
and that we should have true
corporate democracy

404
00:20:43.375 --> 00:20:44.709
and accountability.

405
00:20:48.167 --> 00:20:51.292
Frankly, I made this money
because the system is so bad,

406
00:20:51.375 --> 00:20:52.834
not 'cause I'm a genius.

407
00:20:52.918 --> 00:20:54.500
(marching band plays)

408
00:20:54.584 --> 00:20:56.209
announcer:
<i>This is New York.</i>

409
00:20:56.292 --> 00:20:57.417
<i>A miracle city.</i>

410
00:20:57.500 --> 00:20:58.751
<i>A monument to our nation's</i>

411
00:20:58.834 --> 00:20:59.834
<i>restless energy.</i>

412
00:20:59.918 --> 00:21:01.667
<i>Across the river from Manhattan</i>

413
00:21:01.751 --> 00:21:03.834
<i>lies the borough of Queens.</i>

414
00:21:03.918 --> 00:21:06.667
(jazz band playing)

415
00:21:06.751 --> 00:21:09.709
Carl:<i> I grew up</i>
<i>in the streets of Queens.</i>

416
00:21:11.083 --> 00:21:12.500
<i>It was sort of divided.</i>

417
00:21:12.584 --> 00:21:14.792
<i>In public school, you had
some of these middle-class,</i>

418
00:21:14.876 --> 00:21:16.125
<i>mostly Jewish kids.</i>

419
00:21:16.209 --> 00:21:18.125
<i>From the other side
of the tracks,</i>

420
00:21:18.209 --> 00:21:19.667
<i>a lot of
the reform school kids,</i>

421
00:21:19.751 --> 00:21:21.459
<i>and those were the kids
I liked, really.</i>

422
00:21:21.542 --> 00:21:24.709
<i>Used to play basketball
with the Gotti brothers.</i>

423
00:21:24.792 --> 00:21:28.292
But the more my mother said,
"Don't do it," the more
I wanted to do it.

424
00:21:28.375 --> 00:21:32.125
Stevens:<i> Bella Icahn</i>
<i>was the school teacher</i>

425
00:21:32.209 --> 00:21:35.083
who was always teaching school.

426
00:21:35.959 --> 00:21:38.375
<i>Carl's father was a cantor,</i>

427
00:21:38.459 --> 00:21:41.792
<i>the guy who sings
in a synagogue,</i>

428
00:21:41.876 --> 00:21:43.626
<i>who pressed Carl</i>

429
00:21:43.709 --> 00:21:46.500
on philosophers and philosophies
and was unrelenting,

430
00:21:46.584 --> 00:21:48.876
and his mother, who was
unrelenting another way.

431
00:21:48.959 --> 00:21:50.667
She wanted him to go
to medical school,

432
00:21:50.751 --> 00:21:52.542
but they were both
very intense people.

433
00:21:52.626 --> 00:21:54.375
He had a tough childhood.

434
00:21:54.459 --> 00:21:57.584
I mean, you know, his parents
would brag about him in public

435
00:21:57.667 --> 00:21:59.500
but kind of berate him,
privately.

436
00:21:59.584 --> 00:22:01.709
(contemplative music playing)

437
00:22:08.584 --> 00:22:12.459
I was never really happy
in that whole environment.

438
00:22:12.542 --> 00:22:14.167
So I really wanted
to get out of there.

439
00:22:14.250 --> 00:22:16.709
I was real smart in school,
and I had good marks.

440
00:22:16.792 --> 00:22:20.083
<i>I took the college boards,</i>

441
00:22:20.167 --> 00:22:23.959
<i>and I think I did the best
in Queens or something on 'em.</i>

442
00:22:24.042 --> 00:22:26.417
And my father did say to me,

443
00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:29.209
"If you get into Yale,
Harvard or Princeton,

444
00:22:29.292 --> 00:22:30.876
we'll pay the tuition."

445
00:22:30.959 --> 00:22:33.083
<i>'Cause they figured
nobody ever got in</i>

446
00:22:33.167 --> 00:22:34.584
<i>from Far Rockaway
High School.</i>

447
00:22:34.667 --> 00:22:37.459
<i>And so I got into all of 'em.</i>

448
00:22:37.542 --> 00:22:40.751
And everybody
was really surprised,
including my parents.

449
00:22:40.834 --> 00:22:43.709
<i>I wanted Princeton.</i>

450
00:22:43.792 --> 00:22:46.042
But then when it came
to thinking about paying
the tuition,

451
00:22:46.125 --> 00:22:50.292
it was only $750 in those days,
and the room and board was $750.

452
00:22:50.375 --> 00:22:53.083
<i>My father said, "Son, we're
not gonna go back on our word.</i>

453
00:22:53.167 --> 00:22:54.542
<i>We're gonna pay your tuition."</i>

454
00:22:54.626 --> 00:22:56.209
<i>I said,
"Thanks, Dad, that's great.</i>

455
00:22:56.292 --> 00:22:57.751
<i>I appreciate it greatly."</i>

456
00:22:57.834 --> 00:22:58.959
And then it hit me, I said,

457
00:22:59.042 --> 00:23:00.667
"What about
room and board, Dad?"

458
00:23:00.751 --> 00:23:03.125
<i>And then he said,
"You're a smart kid.</i>

459
00:23:03.209 --> 00:23:05.667
<i>You gotta worry about
the room and board yourself."</i>

460
00:23:05.751 --> 00:23:08.667
(doo-wop music playing)

461
00:23:12.834 --> 00:23:16.959
<i>So, somehow
I wheedled myself a job</i>

462
00:23:17.042 --> 00:23:18.292
<i>on Atlantic Beach,</i>

463
00:23:18.375 --> 00:23:21.250
<i>the sort of, in quotes,
"wealthy people" came.</i>

464
00:23:21.334 --> 00:23:24.042
<i>So I'm a cabana boy,
figure I'll work for tips.</i>

465
00:23:24.125 --> 00:23:27.250
<i>And you could make close
to $100 a week.</i>

466
00:23:27.334 --> 00:23:30.375
And these salesmen,
for the most part from Brooklyn,

467
00:23:30.459 --> 00:23:33.000
<i>were playing poker.</i>

468
00:23:33.083 --> 00:23:35.292
<i>And once they said,
"Kid, how much you make?"</i>

469
00:23:35.375 --> 00:23:37.250
<i>I said, "Hey,
I made a hundred bucks."</i>

470
00:23:37.334 --> 00:23:39.542
"Okay, you got a hundred bucks,
you wanna lose it,

471
00:23:39.626 --> 00:23:42.459
come here, do a game, we'll
show you what life's about."

472
00:23:42.542 --> 00:23:45.667
<i>So I said, "Yeah,
I think I could play."</i>

473
00:23:45.751 --> 00:23:48.584
And they wiped me out
in about a half an hour.

474
00:23:48.667 --> 00:23:49.959
I lost the $100.

475
00:23:50.042 --> 00:23:52.709
I said, "Hey, I'm smarter
than these guys."

476
00:23:52.792 --> 00:23:56.500
<i>So during the week, I went out,
I got three books on poker.</i>

477
00:23:56.584 --> 00:23:58.334
<i>And it's really
a mathematical game.</i>

478
00:23:58.417 --> 00:24:00.918
<i>It's luck, too, but
these guys were not that good.</i>

479
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:02.959
<i>To begin with,
they were drinking vodka,</i>

480
00:24:03.042 --> 00:24:04.792
<i>and they were just having fun.</i>

481
00:24:04.876 --> 00:24:06.709
<i>The next week,</i>

482
00:24:06.792 --> 00:24:09.626
I went in and I said,
"I'll play it again."

483
00:24:09.709 --> 00:24:13.709
<i>They said, "Okay, kid,
you haven't learned
your lesson yet."</i>

484
00:24:13.792 --> 00:24:15.709
<i>And then I killed 'em.</i>

485
00:24:15.792 --> 00:24:17.417
<i>I got inordinately lucky.</i>

486
00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:21.542
<i>And literally that weekend,
I won $800.</i>

487
00:24:22.417 --> 00:24:25.542
♪ ♪

488
00:24:25.626 --> 00:24:27.918
And that's how I paid
my room and board

489
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.500
throughout Princeton.

490
00:24:29.584 --> 00:24:31.959
(playful digital music playing)

491
00:24:39.959 --> 00:24:42.792
Gail:<i> I can tell you</i>
<i>the first moment</i>
<i>I fell in love with Carl,</i>

492
00:24:42.876 --> 00:24:45.667
<i>and that was when I
started working for him</i>

493
00:24:45.751 --> 00:24:48.500
<i>and heard him on the phone
speaking to his uncle,</i>

494
00:24:48.584 --> 00:24:50.751
<i>who had offended him
in some way.</i>

495
00:24:50.834 --> 00:24:54.792
<i>And he was so frank
in that exchange.</i>

496
00:24:54.876 --> 00:24:57.375
<i>Coming from
an Irish background</i>

497
00:24:57.459 --> 00:25:00.125
<i>where everything
is sort of hidden,</i>

498
00:25:00.209 --> 00:25:03.209
I was not accustomed to

499
00:25:03.292 --> 00:25:06.834
that kind of depth of feeling
and that honesty of feeling,

500
00:25:06.918 --> 00:25:10.334
and I think that was
the first moment that I thought,

501
00:25:10.417 --> 00:25:14.083
"This guy has a little bit
more substance than
I thought he did," so...

502
00:25:15.125 --> 00:25:18.125
Oh, God, this elbow's
killing me.

503
00:25:18.209 --> 00:25:20.792
Well, you played pretty well
with the elbow killing you.

504
00:25:20.876 --> 00:25:22.584
Well, imagine the trouble
you're going to be in.

505
00:25:22.667 --> 00:25:24.500
Carl: Yeah, imagine if you
didn't have a bad elbow.

506
00:25:24.584 --> 00:25:27.709
You know, you hit those goddamn
little poopy shots at me,

507
00:25:27.792 --> 00:25:30.709
which, you know,
it throws me off my game.

508
00:25:30.792 --> 00:25:33.876
You know, that's, you know,
in some cases that's by design.

509
00:25:33.959 --> 00:25:35.876
I know you don't think that,
but it's by design.

510
00:25:35.959 --> 00:25:37.918
-Sometimes I just...
-Baloney, it's by design.

511
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.167
There are times
I play with you when
I deliberately hit it soft.

512
00:25:41.250 --> 00:25:43.792
You're not good enough
to deliberately hit it soft.

513
00:25:43.876 --> 00:25:45.959
You don't have a slice.
You don't, yeah.

514
00:25:46.042 --> 00:25:47.959
I don't have to have a slice.

515
00:25:48.042 --> 00:25:50.167
Yeah, I mean, you played well,
you played well.

516
00:25:50.250 --> 00:25:53.751
You actually, you actually
really did okay yesterday,

517
00:25:53.834 --> 00:25:57.000
got to admit,
with a bad elbow.

518
00:25:57.083 --> 00:25:59.918
Gail:<i> We started</i>
<i>living together in '92,</i>

519
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.876
<i>and didn't get married
until '99.</i>

520
00:26:01.959 --> 00:26:03.459
This is another horror story

521
00:26:03.542 --> 00:26:05.834
from a client from TWA.

522
00:26:05.918 --> 00:26:07.667
Gail:<i> But I have</i>
<i>known him since '78.</i>

523
00:26:07.751 --> 00:26:09.584
<i>I started working
for him in '78.</i>

524
00:26:09.667 --> 00:26:12.918
<i>The first time I met Carl,
this employment agency said,</i>

525
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:15.125
<i>"Can you please come in?"
and she said,</i>

526
00:26:15.209 --> 00:26:19.459
"I have this guy,
I've had a hard time
keeping people with him."

527
00:26:19.542 --> 00:26:20.876
-That's not true.
-Gail: Oh!

528
00:26:20.959 --> 00:26:22.500
I've had people
with me 20 years.

529
00:26:22.584 --> 00:26:24.375
I'm not gonna lie on camera,
so you can just go ahead

530
00:26:24.459 --> 00:26:26.292
-and say what you wanna say.
-Eh...

531
00:26:26.375 --> 00:26:30.626
But anyways, the pile of stuff
on his desk was incredible.

532
00:26:30.709 --> 00:26:33.834
So he says, "Do you think
you could help me with this?"

533
00:26:33.918 --> 00:26:38.167
This chaos, and in the first
two weeks, I was ready to quit.

534
00:26:38.250 --> 00:26:39.250
<i>But he was fun.</i>

535
00:26:39.334 --> 00:26:41.125
<i>He was just very fun.</i>

536
00:26:41.209 --> 00:26:43.500
And so, you know,
it started there.

537
00:26:43.584 --> 00:26:44.876
And it was, it was good.

538
00:26:44.959 --> 00:26:48.417
Tony Bennett:
<i>♪ I'm steppin' out</i>
<i>with my baby ♪</i>

539
00:26:48.500 --> 00:26:50.918
<i>♪ Can't go wrong
'cause I'm in right ♪</i>

540
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.167
<i>♪ It's for sure,
not for maybe ♪</i>

541
00:26:54.250 --> 00:26:56.834
<i>♪ That I'm all
dressed up tonight ♪</i>

542
00:26:56.918 --> 00:26:59.375
<i>-♪ Steppin' out with my honey ♪</i>
-You're gettin' too good...

543
00:26:59.459 --> 00:27:02.334
<i>♪ Can't be bad,
feels so good ♪</i>

544
00:27:02.417 --> 00:27:05.167
<i>♪ Never felt quite so sunny ♪</i>

545
00:27:05.250 --> 00:27:08.042
<i>♪ And I keep on
knockin' wood... ♪</i>

546
00:27:08.125 --> 00:27:11.876
I think what keeps it going
is respect for each other.

547
00:27:11.959 --> 00:27:13.626
Um, and we laugh a lot.

548
00:27:13.709 --> 00:27:17.125
I mean, there's a lot of banter,
you know, sarcasm,
back and forth.

549
00:27:17.209 --> 00:27:20.042
-Doesn't matter what you think.
-Gail: It doesn't matter
what<i> you</i> think.

550
00:27:20.125 --> 00:27:22.167
-Who cares what you think?
-Who cares what<i> you</i> think?

551
00:27:22.250 --> 00:27:24.876
We can banter with each other,

552
00:27:24.959 --> 00:27:30.042
but she's one of the few people
whose opinion I really value.

553
00:27:30.125 --> 00:27:33.042
Some nights I fall asleep
in the bath.

554
00:27:33.125 --> 00:27:34.667
And Gail turns a movie on

555
00:27:34.751 --> 00:27:37.125
and doesn't bother
to tell me she leaves.

556
00:27:37.209 --> 00:27:39.709
And I wake up and say,
"Holy, where am I?"

557
00:27:39.792 --> 00:27:43.709
I say, "Gail, maybe you could
have waked me up, check in.

558
00:27:43.792 --> 00:27:46.000
I could have been dead
in there."

559
00:27:46.083 --> 00:27:47.292
-Gail: Seriously.
-What?

560
00:27:47.375 --> 00:27:49.292
I could be on fire
sitting next to him

561
00:27:49.375 --> 00:27:50.709
and he wouldn't spit on me.

562
00:27:50.792 --> 00:27:52.125
What is this nonsense?

563
00:27:52.209 --> 00:27:55.709
She wouldn't know if she left me
in the bathtub drowning.

564
00:27:55.792 --> 00:27:57.125
It's a nice way to spend a life.

565
00:27:57.209 --> 00:27:58.417
(phone ringing)

566
00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:00.209
Oh, you should stop.

567
00:28:00.292 --> 00:28:03.167
Because you have to answer
the phone because...

568
00:28:03.250 --> 00:28:05.626
-Well, somebody's
gotta answer it.
-...I just can't.

569
00:28:05.709 --> 00:28:08.209
-It might be important.
-Let somebody else
answer the phone.

570
00:28:08.292 --> 00:28:09.667
What if it was for me?

571
00:28:09.751 --> 00:28:11.709
Carl:
Eh, now I lost it.

572
00:28:11.792 --> 00:28:14.834
(percussive music playing)

573
00:28:14.918 --> 00:28:19.667
So, Carl goes to Princeton
and he's kind of an outsider.

574
00:28:19.751 --> 00:28:21.542
♪ ♪

575
00:28:21.626 --> 00:28:24.459
Peter Liebert:<i> We started</i>
<i>at Princeton in 1953,</i>

576
00:28:24.542 --> 00:28:29.375
<i>but there was clearly a social
pecking order at Princeton.</i>

577
00:28:29.459 --> 00:28:32.292
<i>The nature
of the social situation was</i>

578
00:28:32.375 --> 00:28:37.584
that Jews didn't even apply
to certain clubs.

579
00:28:37.667 --> 00:28:39.792
<i>I never resented it.</i>

580
00:28:39.876 --> 00:28:43.417
<i>But I think, in many ways,
Carl did.</i>

581
00:28:46.042 --> 00:28:47.667
Rana Foroohar:
<i>That's the thing about Carl,</i>

582
00:28:47.751 --> 00:28:50.000
<i>is he has kept that feeling
of being an outsider,</i>

583
00:28:50.083 --> 00:28:53.250
because I think that,
at seminal moments in his life,

584
00:28:53.334 --> 00:28:55.417
he very much was an outsider.

585
00:28:56.918 --> 00:28:59.042
Liebert:
<i>And I think Carl felt</i>

586
00:28:59.125 --> 00:29:02.918
<i>a desire to prove to himself
and to others</i>

587
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:05.792
that he's smarter
than most of these people.

588
00:29:07.417 --> 00:29:09.167
Stevens:
<i>He majored in philosophy.</i>

589
00:29:09.250 --> 00:29:12.000
And the best way Carl
could exercise

590
00:29:12.083 --> 00:29:15.000
his lifelong need
to show superiority

591
00:29:15.083 --> 00:29:16.542
to the Brahmin culture

592
00:29:16.626 --> 00:29:18.500
that dominated Princeton
in those days

593
00:29:18.584 --> 00:29:20.167
<i>was to win the senior thesis,</i>

594
00:29:20.250 --> 00:29:23.167
<i>which is the equivalent
of being valedictorian.</i>

595
00:29:23.250 --> 00:29:25.459
Carl:
<i>The thing I enjoy</i>
<i>by far the most,</i>

596
00:29:25.542 --> 00:29:28.417
<i>and maybe in my life,
that I'm the proudest of,</i>

597
00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:29.584
<i>was my thesis.</i>

598
00:29:29.667 --> 00:29:31.167
<i>And I just wanted to prove</i>

599
00:29:31.250 --> 00:29:33.751
<i>that I could accomplish
something.</i>

600
00:29:35.292 --> 00:29:38.500
Stevens:
<i>It's almost unreadable,</i>
<i>it's so complex.</i>

601
00:29:38.584 --> 00:29:40.626
But he got his revenge,

602
00:29:40.709 --> 00:29:43.751
<i>and he won that senior thesis.</i>

603
00:29:45.083 --> 00:29:48.417
I'm telling you,
this is very arcane stuff.

604
00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:51.584
<i>I won an award for it,
but when I read it again,</i>

605
00:29:51.667 --> 00:29:54.000
<i>I honestly can't understand
what I wrote.</i>

606
00:29:54.083 --> 00:29:56.542
It was just an exercise,

607
00:29:56.626 --> 00:29:59.876
I won't say in futility,
but an exercise in logic,

608
00:29:59.959 --> 00:30:03.042
which is... really fulfilling,

609
00:30:03.125 --> 00:30:06.000
but it wasn't for me.

610
00:30:06.083 --> 00:30:10.042
♪ ♪

611
00:30:10.125 --> 00:30:12.209
<i>I got accepted
to medical school,</i>

612
00:30:12.292 --> 00:30:13.918
<i>and I really didn't
wanna go.</i>

613
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:16.751
<i>I didn't wanna be a doctor,
but my mother was so adamant.</i>

614
00:30:16.834 --> 00:30:19.000
She said, "It's
an anti-Semitic world,

615
00:30:19.083 --> 00:30:20.626
therefore be a doctor."

616
00:30:20.709 --> 00:30:22.375
And then she used
to scare me and say,

617
00:30:22.459 --> 00:30:24.334
"If you don't,
you get out of Princeton,

618
00:30:24.417 --> 00:30:27.209
they're gonna
take you in the army
and they're gonna kill ya."

619
00:30:28.584 --> 00:30:30.751
<i>So I quit a couple of times.</i>

620
00:30:30.834 --> 00:30:33.500
<i>My mother always
talked me into going back.</i>

621
00:30:33.584 --> 00:30:37.584
And one time we go
into this tuberculosis ward,

622
00:30:37.667 --> 00:30:40.584
<i>and I'm a slight hypochondriac,
but not terrible.</i>

623
00:30:40.667 --> 00:30:43.250
<i>This resident picks me
from the back, he says,</i>

624
00:30:43.334 --> 00:30:45.542
"Icahn, give me
a differential diagnosis."

625
00:30:45.626 --> 00:30:47.876
I tried to be funny,
so I look at him and say,
"Hey, Doctor,

626
00:30:47.959 --> 00:30:50.500
we know what he got, it says
'tuberculosis' up there."

627
00:30:50.584 --> 00:30:52.959
He says, "Don't be funny,
this is medicine."

628
00:30:53.042 --> 00:30:55.584
So I lean over the guy
and I tap his chest.

629
00:30:55.667 --> 00:30:58.542
Coughs all over me,
I say, "Bullshit, that's it."

630
00:30:58.626 --> 00:31:00.751
<i>"I quit."</i>

631
00:31:00.834 --> 00:31:02.209
<i>He says,
"You don't leave here.</i>

632
00:31:02.292 --> 00:31:03.751
You leave here,
you're never coming back."

633
00:31:03.834 --> 00:31:05.500
I said, "It's okay with me
if I never come back.

634
00:31:05.584 --> 00:31:06.792
You talk to my mother."

635
00:31:06.876 --> 00:31:09.751
So I remember to this day,
I walked from 34th Street

636
00:31:09.834 --> 00:31:12.834
all the way up 42nd Street,
where you could join the army.

637
00:31:12.918 --> 00:31:15.542
♪ ♪

638
00:31:15.626 --> 00:31:18.709
The army, to Carl, was
the witness protection program.

639
00:31:18.792 --> 00:31:21.209
<i>And he would tell me this,
"My mom couldn't get me."</i>

640
00:31:21.292 --> 00:31:23.709
There were two choices:
jail or the army.

641
00:31:23.792 --> 00:31:26.417
Carl:<i> I never liked</i>
<i>the discipline of anything.</i>

642
00:31:26.500 --> 00:31:28.626
<i>I hated the army.</i>

643
00:31:28.709 --> 00:31:32.375
But I made money in the army,
I played poker in it,
but I hated it.

644
00:31:32.459 --> 00:31:37.209
<i>So I left the army
with maybe 20, 25 grand.</i>

645
00:31:37.292 --> 00:31:40.000
By his poker playing,
you start to see his ability

646
00:31:40.083 --> 00:31:41.626
with numbers and strategy.

647
00:31:41.709 --> 00:31:45.792
<i>And he started thinking about
finance in a serious way.</i>

648
00:31:50.250 --> 00:31:52.876
So we're finally, we're going
to be doing the test run

649
00:31:52.959 --> 00:31:55.417
-of the podcast today.
-Good idea.

650
00:31:59.918 --> 00:32:02.417
My roots come from
more, um, storytelling,

651
00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:05.667
and so I started doing
different projects

652
00:32:05.751 --> 00:32:10.250
<i>for my father,
like PR and his social media.</i>

653
00:32:11.375 --> 00:32:14.417
What I wanna do
in this podcast is

654
00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:16.375
-call it "Outrage," you know...
-Yeah.

655
00:32:16.459 --> 00:32:18.209
...and call it
"Outrage of the Week,"

656
00:32:18.292 --> 00:32:21.542
<i>AKA "How shareholders
are getting screwed."</i>

657
00:32:21.626 --> 00:32:23.292
<i>And just tell it as it is.</i>

658
00:32:23.375 --> 00:32:26.959
<i>And then we'll see how it
works, but we'll play with it.</i>

659
00:32:27.042 --> 00:32:30.292
All right, so this is what
we're gonna do, we're gonna
put our headphones on.

660
00:32:30.375 --> 00:32:32.042
You're gonna take them,
you just open them up.

661
00:32:32.125 --> 00:32:34.959
-You talk to me like
I'm a moron. I can-- Okay.
-I know. (laughs)

662
00:32:35.042 --> 00:32:38.042
-Michelle, I'll show you
how to do it.
-(laughing)

663
00:32:38.125 --> 00:32:39.792
Michelle:
<i>As a child,</i>

664
00:32:39.876 --> 00:32:43.375
<i>I didn't know how monumental
the deals were</i>

665
00:32:43.459 --> 00:32:46.083
<i>that my dad was involved in.</i>

666
00:32:46.167 --> 00:32:48.792
I just knew he was
really, really busy.

667
00:32:53.083 --> 00:32:55.083
But PayPal is
an exciting company,

668
00:32:55.167 --> 00:32:57.959
but it should have been
spun off, but the board
didn't wanna lose it.

669
00:32:58.042 --> 00:33:00.250
After we were fighting
to spin it off for three years,

670
00:33:00.334 --> 00:33:02.542
and the CEO suddenly
had an epiphany.

671
00:33:02.626 --> 00:33:06.125
"Wow, great idea I just had.
Let's spin off PayPal."

672
00:33:06.209 --> 00:33:07.626
And the stock went way up.

673
00:33:07.709 --> 00:33:09.459
He works all the time.

674
00:33:09.542 --> 00:33:12.125
I think that was,
that's his mission.

675
00:33:14.083 --> 00:33:15.667
What's surprising is

676
00:33:15.751 --> 00:33:17.334
that I think Bernie Sanders

677
00:33:17.417 --> 00:33:20.083
and even Elizabeth Warren
have a point.

678
00:33:20.167 --> 00:33:22.918
And I don't like them, I mean,
because I don't like socialism.

679
00:33:23.042 --> 00:33:25.626
I don't think it could work,
but what they are saying,

680
00:33:25.709 --> 00:33:28.250
this wealth gap,
the tremendous wealth gap,

681
00:33:28.334 --> 00:33:30.083
-should not exist.
-Yeah.

682
00:33:30.167 --> 00:33:32.709
People on Wall Street
are tremendously overpaid.

683
00:33:32.792 --> 00:33:36.250
The investment bankers make
ridiculous incomes,

684
00:33:36.334 --> 00:33:39.292
relative
to what they contribute.

685
00:33:39.375 --> 00:33:41.667
You know, I think my father
is an activist.

686
00:33:41.751 --> 00:33:46.167
I think by nature he wants
to create change.

687
00:33:46.250 --> 00:33:48.042
When I came into Wall Street,

688
00:33:48.125 --> 00:33:52.334
I realized playing the market
is extremely risky,

689
00:33:52.417 --> 00:33:55.125
extremely dangerous, so...

690
00:33:55.209 --> 00:33:58.375
Michelle:
<i>He talks a lot about</i>
<i>the market in 1962.</i>

691
00:33:58.459 --> 00:34:00.709
You know, for him that was...

692
00:34:00.792 --> 00:34:04.209
I think that was one
of the most impactful moments.

693
00:34:04.292 --> 00:34:07.334
(intense digital music playing)

694
00:34:10.125 --> 00:34:13.292
Carl:<i> When I got out</i>
<i>of the army, basically,</i>

695
00:34:13.375 --> 00:34:16.209
I went to Wall Street
because I was into stocks,

696
00:34:16.292 --> 00:34:17.792
I was into making money.

697
00:34:17.876 --> 00:34:21.918
<i>I got in the training program
at Dreyfus</i>

698
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:23.918
<i>and started investing,</i>

699
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:27.042
<i>and it fit perfectly for me.</i>

700
00:34:27.125 --> 00:34:28.542
<i>And I'm making a fortune.</i>

701
00:34:28.626 --> 00:34:30.584
<i>I'm making all this money.</i>

702
00:34:30.667 --> 00:34:34.417
I bought a Galaxy convertible.

703
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:36.542
<i>I had a beautiful girlfriend.</i>

704
00:34:36.626 --> 00:34:38.876
<i>And life was good,
and I figured,</i>

705
00:34:38.959 --> 00:34:41.667
<i>"This is the easiest
damn thing I ever did."</i>

706
00:34:41.751 --> 00:34:44.250
And Jack Dreyfus came to me,
said, "You know,

707
00:34:44.334 --> 00:34:46.292
<i>"Carl, you're a smart guy.</i>

708
00:34:46.375 --> 00:34:48.959
<i>"You're gonna lose every penny
you got there.</i>

709
00:34:49.042 --> 00:34:52.250
<i>Learn to be an investor,
not what you do."</i>

710
00:34:52.334 --> 00:34:54.834
<i>He says, "You're
just one of the fools."</i>

711
00:34:54.918 --> 00:34:57.834
<i>I said, "Come on, Jack,
move over," you know,
we're laughing.</i>

712
00:34:57.918 --> 00:35:01.751
And I learned a great lesson.
You always pay for hubris.

713
00:35:01.834 --> 00:35:04.709
<i>In '62, the market broke.</i>

714
00:35:04.792 --> 00:35:06.584
<i>Terrible.</i>

715
00:35:06.667 --> 00:35:08.000
<i>Jack was right.</i>

716
00:35:08.083 --> 00:35:09.459
<i>I was wiped out.</i>

717
00:35:09.542 --> 00:35:10.876
<i>I don't know which went first,</i>

718
00:35:10.959 --> 00:35:13.250
the Galaxy
or the girlfriend I had.

719
00:35:15.292 --> 00:35:17.209
After that, I never played
the market again.

720
00:35:17.292 --> 00:35:19.709
Really, literally,
I went to work.

721
00:35:19.792 --> 00:35:24.083
♪ ♪

722
00:35:24.167 --> 00:35:27.167
I had to learn one area
and be an expert in it.

723
00:35:27.250 --> 00:35:29.209
I looked at the option world.

724
00:35:29.292 --> 00:35:33.167
I realized there
was something awry,
that there was a problem.

725
00:35:33.250 --> 00:35:34.751
Options were mysterious.

726
00:35:34.834 --> 00:35:37.626
What should they sell for,
what should you buy them for?

727
00:35:37.709 --> 00:35:39.876
You had no place
to really know and look

728
00:35:39.959 --> 00:35:41.626
about what was a good deal.

729
00:35:41.709 --> 00:35:43.876
(percussive music playing)

730
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:54.334
Carl:
<i>The option brokers were all...</i>

731
00:35:54.417 --> 00:35:55.626
<i>I wouldn't say thieves,</i>

732
00:35:55.709 --> 00:35:57.542
<i>but you would say
they didn't give a damn.</i>

733
00:35:57.626 --> 00:36:00.334
<i>So they would go buy
these options</i>

734
00:36:00.417 --> 00:36:03.125
<i>and make
a huge markup on them.</i>

735
00:36:03.209 --> 00:36:04.834
So I came up
with something called

736
00:36:04.918 --> 00:36:06.626
"The Midweek Option Report,"

737
00:36:06.709 --> 00:36:08.209
that would tell people,

738
00:36:08.292 --> 00:36:10.918
"This is what you should have
been getting for your option

739
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:13.584
and this is what you got,
and you got screwed."

740
00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:19.250
<i>And I'm an obsessive worker.</i>

741
00:36:19.334 --> 00:36:22.209
<i>I would stay down
on Wall Street
working till midnight,</i>

742
00:36:22.292 --> 00:36:25.751
<i>calling people up
because in California
it was only nine o'clock.</i>

743
00:36:25.834 --> 00:36:27.542
<i>I didn't know
about mugging or anything.</i>

744
00:36:27.626 --> 00:36:29.042
<i>I'd go back,
I'd be the only guy</i>

745
00:36:29.125 --> 00:36:31.042
<i>on the subway going uptown.</i>

746
00:36:31.125 --> 00:36:36.542
And I was looked on
as an honest broker,
and the business boomed.

747
00:36:36.626 --> 00:36:40.125
And I became one of
the biggest brokers on
Wall Street doing that.

748
00:36:41.334 --> 00:36:43.626
Stevens:
<i>But in the evolution of Carl,</i>

749
00:36:43.709 --> 00:36:45.667
to be a real player,
he had to have a seat

750
00:36:45.751 --> 00:36:47.375
on the New York Stock Exchange.

751
00:36:47.459 --> 00:36:50.375
Carl:
<i>I had saved</i>
<i>a few hundred grand,</i>

752
00:36:50.459 --> 00:36:52.125
<i>and my uncle had some money,</i>

753
00:36:52.209 --> 00:36:55.250
and I decided to buy
the seat on the Exchange.

754
00:36:57.083 --> 00:36:58.792
Elliot Schnall:
<i>Tell me when you're on.</i>

755
00:36:58.876 --> 00:37:00.292
(clapper claps)

756
00:37:00.375 --> 00:37:01.834
I was...

757
00:37:01.918 --> 00:37:04.334
17 when Carl was born.

758
00:37:04.417 --> 00:37:07.375
<i>He was like a kid brother.</i>

759
00:37:09.375 --> 00:37:11.667
Elliot was a man about town.

760
00:37:11.751 --> 00:37:13.626
He was distinguished

761
00:37:13.709 --> 00:37:15.751
and polished.

762
00:37:15.834 --> 00:37:18.417
Carl learned a lot from Elliot.

763
00:37:18.500 --> 00:37:21.209
He wanted to start
his own firm,

764
00:37:21.292 --> 00:37:25.584
and in order to do that,
you had to buy a seat.

765
00:37:25.667 --> 00:37:28.959
reporter:<i> Uncle Elliot</i>
<i>loaned Icahn $400,000</i>

766
00:37:29.042 --> 00:37:31.876
<i>so he could buy a seat on
the New York Stock Exchange.</i>

767
00:37:31.959 --> 00:37:35.000
No, I knew he would be
a success at it.

768
00:37:35.083 --> 00:37:37.292
Then he started his own firm.

769
00:37:37.375 --> 00:37:40.500
reporter:<i> Icahn began</i>
<i>with options and arbitrage.</i>

770
00:37:40.584 --> 00:37:43.918
<i>Then in 1979,
he had a new idea: takeovers.</i>

771
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:45.667
<i>He told Uncle Elliot</i>

772
00:37:45.751 --> 00:37:48.667
<i>he was going to start going
after undervalued companies.</i>

773
00:37:48.751 --> 00:37:51.709
I said, "Well, what do you know
about undervalued companies?"

774
00:37:51.792 --> 00:37:54.000
He says, "Look,
I'm going to do it."

775
00:37:54.083 --> 00:37:57.250
I said, "Carl, forget it."
I thought he was crazy.

776
00:37:57.334 --> 00:37:59.083
I'll give you some scotch here.

777
00:37:59.167 --> 00:38:00.542
He just bought it today.

778
00:38:00.626 --> 00:38:03.042
It's good for ya.
Here, let me give it to ya.

779
00:38:03.125 --> 00:38:05.292
No, I don't want any more.

780
00:38:05.375 --> 00:38:07.959
Hey, you look good, Elliot,
you look good.

781
00:38:08.042 --> 00:38:09.959
-Elliot: I look good?
-You look okay.

782
00:38:10.042 --> 00:38:11.542
You look fine.

783
00:38:11.626 --> 00:38:14.042
Elliot:
She's gonna give me a haircut.

784
00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:19.584
(crowd cheering)

785
00:38:29.626 --> 00:38:32.459
Bryan Burrough:
<i>In the early '80s,</i>
<i>there were an awful lot</i>

786
00:38:32.542 --> 00:38:35.876
of young, white American men
in search of fortunes

787
00:38:35.959 --> 00:38:37.751
who were
flooding into Wall Street

788
00:38:37.834 --> 00:38:39.125
and wanted to know

789
00:38:39.209 --> 00:38:41.083
<i>that what they were doing
was okay,</i>

790
00:38:41.167 --> 00:38:43.417
<i>because everybody would
go home on Sunday</i>

791
00:38:43.500 --> 00:38:46.834
and your mom would say, "Jimmy,
what do you actually do?"

792
00:38:46.918 --> 00:38:48.667
<i>In the last five years,</i>

793
00:38:48.751 --> 00:38:51.042
<i>we've moved from malaise</i>

794
00:38:51.125 --> 00:38:53.500
<i>to hope, confidence,
and opportunity.</i>

795
00:38:53.584 --> 00:38:56.626
Burrough:
<i>But Reagan comes</i>
<i>and there is a feeling</i>

796
00:38:56.709 --> 00:38:58.918
<i>of a laying on of hands,</i>

797
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:00.876
<i>that this is okay,</i>

798
00:39:00.959 --> 00:39:04.209
<i>that pursuing money,
it's not only okay,</i>

799
00:39:04.292 --> 00:39:06.918
<i>but it's somehow
good for the country.</i>

800
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.250
It was like Reagan
telling everybody that
it was okay to party.

801
00:39:10.334 --> 00:39:12.918
<i>We're going to turn
the bull loose.</i>

802
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:15.667
(bell clanging,
traders cheering)

803
00:39:15.751 --> 00:39:17.876
("Blue Monday"
by New Order playing)

804
00:39:17.959 --> 00:39:20.709
Burrough:<i> If you didn't</i>
<i>live through the '80s</i>
<i>on Wall Street,</i>

805
00:39:20.792 --> 00:39:23.292
<i>it's almost impossible
to understand.</i>

806
00:39:23.375 --> 00:39:26.209
-Zurich 23 Citibank.
-350, Nelson.

807
00:39:26.292 --> 00:39:30.626
The chaos... it was like
a financial disco.

808
00:39:30.709 --> 00:39:33.459
interviewer:
What do you get out of this?

809
00:39:33.542 --> 00:39:35.709
The old guard,
it took 'em years and years,

810
00:39:35.792 --> 00:39:39.792
and new people on Wall Street,
they wanna do it in two days.

811
00:39:39.876 --> 00:39:44.667
The 1980s was
the reimagining of Wall Street.

812
00:39:44.751 --> 00:39:47.792
It was when there was
these swashbuckling

813
00:39:47.876 --> 00:39:51.626
financial pioneers
who were changing the game.

814
00:39:51.709 --> 00:39:55.167
<i>♪ How does it feel ♪</i>

815
00:39:55.250 --> 00:39:58.542
<i>♪ To treat me like you do? ♪</i>

816
00:39:58.626 --> 00:40:01.250
A new breed of businessman,
the corporate raider.

817
00:40:01.334 --> 00:40:02.751
Carl is the original.

818
00:40:02.834 --> 00:40:06.834
<i>He was the guy
that reflected the '80s</i>

819
00:40:06.918 --> 00:40:08.751
and taught everybody else

820
00:40:08.834 --> 00:40:11.292
how to do those corporate raider
takeover deals.

821
00:40:11.375 --> 00:40:13.918
reporter 1:
<i>It all starts when</i>
<i>a raider finds a company</i>

822
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.584
<i>whose stock is selling
below its true value.</i>

823
00:40:16.667 --> 00:40:19.417
reporter 2:
<i>The raider moves in</i>
<i>and the battle begins.</i>

824
00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:23.959
To either sell the company,
sell some parts of the company,

825
00:40:24.042 --> 00:40:25.250
reimagine the company.

826
00:40:25.334 --> 00:40:28.709
And their goal is to raise
the stock price

827
00:40:28.792 --> 00:40:30.417
<i>and make money.</i>

828
00:40:30.500 --> 00:40:31.834
♪ ♪

829
00:40:31.918 --> 00:40:33.834
Icahn is the man who's been
changing the face

830
00:40:33.918 --> 00:40:35.334
of American business.

831
00:40:35.417 --> 00:40:37.667
reporter:
<i>Icahn raids on some big names,</i>

832
00:40:37.751 --> 00:40:40.417
<i>like Marshall Field,
Hammermill Paper, Dan River,</i>

833
00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:41.792
<i>Phillips Petroleum,</i>

834
00:40:41.876 --> 00:40:43.834
<i>Uniroyal and ACF.</i>

835
00:40:45.375 --> 00:40:47.000
Burrough:
<i>Corporate raiders</i>

836
00:40:47.083 --> 00:40:49.626
<i>were very controversial.</i>

837
00:40:49.709 --> 00:40:51.751
A lot of people
essentially thought

838
00:40:51.834 --> 00:40:55.459
<i>they were glorified
shakedown artists.</i>

839
00:40:55.542 --> 00:40:58.375
Carl:<i> Again, I'm not doing it</i>
<i>because I'm Robin Hood.</i>

840
00:40:58.459 --> 00:40:59.876
I'm doing it because of
the financial--

841
00:40:59.959 --> 00:41:01.834
absolutely because
I want the financial gain,

842
00:41:01.918 --> 00:41:04.876
but I think it's a very good
thing that I do, and more
people should do it.

843
00:41:04.959 --> 00:41:07.584
Raider?
What in the hell am I raiding?

844
00:41:07.667 --> 00:41:10.542
I'll go in here and take a big
position in the company,

845
00:41:10.626 --> 00:41:11.751
I take the risk.

846
00:41:11.834 --> 00:41:13.250
I make something happen.

847
00:41:13.334 --> 00:41:15.417
How do you identify me
as a raider?

848
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.709
Oliver Stone:<i> When we started</i>
<i>to do "Wall Street" in 1987,</i>

849
00:41:22.792 --> 00:41:25.000
we went to Icahn's office,
Stanley Weiser and I,

850
00:41:25.083 --> 00:41:26.626
who co-wrote the script with me.

851
00:41:26.709 --> 00:41:29.417
He gave us about an hour,
and it was quite interesting

852
00:41:29.500 --> 00:41:32.167
because... he was arrogant,

853
00:41:32.250 --> 00:41:34.542
<i>in the sense that
he was telling us</i>

854
00:41:34.626 --> 00:41:36.834
<i>about the new way
of doing things</i>

855
00:41:36.918 --> 00:41:40.417
and how it was necessary
to attack these companies

856
00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:42.292
<i>because these are
outdated companies.</i>

857
00:41:42.375 --> 00:41:44.167
<i>They take profit
for the executives</i>

858
00:41:44.250 --> 00:41:46.292
<i>and they don't care
about the shareholders.</i>

859
00:41:46.375 --> 00:41:48.083
<i>You own the company.</i>

860
00:41:48.167 --> 00:41:50.751
<i>That's right,
you the stockholder,</i>

861
00:41:50.834 --> 00:41:53.083
<i>and you are all
being royally screwed over</i>

862
00:41:53.167 --> 00:41:54.876
<i>by these... these bureaucrats</i>

863
00:41:54.959 --> 00:41:56.876
<i>with their,
their steak lunches,</i>

864
00:41:56.959 --> 00:41:58.751
<i>their hunting
and fishing trips, their...</i>

865
00:41:58.834 --> 00:42:00.959
<i>their corporate jets
and golden parachutes.</i>

866
00:42:01.042 --> 00:42:03.709
man:<i> This is an outrage!</i>
<i>You're out of line, Gekko!</i>

867
00:42:03.792 --> 00:42:06.042
Burrough:
<i>You know, there's</i>
<i>a purity to that speech</i>

868
00:42:06.125 --> 00:42:07.918
<i>in what's wrong
with the corporate America.</i>

869
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.876
It doesn't surprise me
that part of that famous speech

870
00:42:11.959 --> 00:42:14.626
is informed by talks
that Stone had with Carl.

871
00:42:14.709 --> 00:42:18.417
<i>We almost have
what I consider to be
a corporate welfare state.</i>

872
00:42:18.500 --> 00:42:22.209
<i>You have levels and levels
of vice presidents
in corporations</i>

873
00:42:22.292 --> 00:42:24.584
<i>that really actually
produce nothing.</i>

874
00:42:24.667 --> 00:42:28.959
<i>Teldar Paper has 33
different vice presidents,</i>

875
00:42:29.042 --> 00:42:32.375
<i>each earning over
$200,000 a year.</i>

876
00:42:32.459 --> 00:42:34.000
(audience members whistle)

877
00:42:34.083 --> 00:42:38.125
<i>Now, I have spent
the last two months analyzing</i>

878
00:42:38.209 --> 00:42:40.083
<i>what all these guys do,</i>

879
00:42:40.167 --> 00:42:42.792
<i>and I still
can't figure it out.</i>

880
00:42:42.876 --> 00:42:44.626
<i>I couldn't figure it out,
what these people,</i>

881
00:42:44.709 --> 00:42:46.876
<i>taking up five floors
in New York City, did.</i>

882
00:42:46.959 --> 00:42:49.375
-(laughter)
<i>-That's a true story,</i>
<i>true story.</i>

883
00:42:49.459 --> 00:42:53.209
<i>The new law of evolution
in corporate America</i>

884
00:42:53.292 --> 00:42:56.876
<i>seems to be
survival of the unfittest.</i>

885
00:42:56.959 --> 00:43:00.334
<i>I believe it's anti-Darwinian,
survival of the unfittest.</i>

886
00:43:00.417 --> 00:43:03.000
<i>Well, in my book,
you either do it right</i>

887
00:43:03.083 --> 00:43:04.542
<i>or you get eliminated.</i>

888
00:43:04.626 --> 00:43:06.542
Stone:
<i>Of course, there is</i>
<i>some truth to that,</i>

889
00:43:06.626 --> 00:43:09.709
but nonetheless, Gordon Gekko
is out for himself.

890
00:43:09.792 --> 00:43:12.417
He's for personal profit
over public profit.

891
00:43:12.500 --> 00:43:16.334
So Gekko is half right
and he's half wrong.

892
00:43:16.417 --> 00:43:18.667
Burrough:
<i>As time went on</i>

893
00:43:18.751 --> 00:43:20.375
<i>with the insider
trading scandals,</i>

894
00:43:20.459 --> 00:43:23.042
<i>the feeling was,
"Oh, you know, right.</i>

895
00:43:23.125 --> 00:43:25.125
<i>These guys really are
just shakedown artists."</i>

896
00:43:25.209 --> 00:43:29.042
But Carl Icahn was not known
as an insider trader,

897
00:43:29.125 --> 00:43:32.626
<i>and suddenly he emerged
from this pack</i>

898
00:43:32.709 --> 00:43:34.709
<i>of patrolling sharks</i>

899
00:43:34.792 --> 00:43:38.959
and began to be capital-C Carl
capital-I Icahn.

900
00:43:39.042 --> 00:43:41.667
♪ ♪

901
00:43:41.751 --> 00:43:44.292
<i>Carl was possessing
an intellect,</i>

902
00:43:44.375 --> 00:43:48.500
<i>a focus,
and a sustained drive</i>

903
00:43:48.584 --> 00:43:50.334
<i>that was unusual.</i>

904
00:43:54.792 --> 00:43:56.209
<i>And one of the signature deals,</i>

905
00:43:56.292 --> 00:43:59.125
one of the most involved,
was Texaco,

906
00:43:59.209 --> 00:44:02.959
in which Carl, uh,
played a starring role.

907
00:44:03.042 --> 00:44:05.876
emcee:<i> A household name,</i>
<i>please welcome Carl Icahn.</i>

908
00:44:05.959 --> 00:44:07.375
<i>Thank you, thank you.</i>

909
00:44:07.459 --> 00:44:10.250
<i>I'm telling you,
these stories are funnier</i>

910
00:44:10.334 --> 00:44:12.292
<i>than the jokes you could tell,
'cause this really,</i>

911
00:44:12.375 --> 00:44:14.209
<i>I'll give you another one
that really happened.</i>

912
00:44:14.292 --> 00:44:17.459
<i>And I talked to this guy today,
he said I could tell it.</i>

913
00:44:17.542 --> 00:44:19.626
<i>We were taking over Texaco.</i>

914
00:44:19.709 --> 00:44:22.334
(percussive music playing)

915
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:27.959
(acoustic guitar playing)

916
00:44:35.834 --> 00:44:38.876
<i>♪ Ooh, there's gold ♪</i>

917
00:44:38.959 --> 00:44:43.209
<i>♪ Coming out of the ground ♪</i>

918
00:44:43.292 --> 00:44:45.250
<i>♪ There's gold there ♪</i>

919
00:44:45.334 --> 00:44:47.834
<i>♪ To be found ♪</i>

920
00:44:47.918 --> 00:44:49.125
<i>♪ The oil train... ♪</i>

921
00:44:49.209 --> 00:44:50.584
Burrough:
<i>Texaco was, you know,</i>

922
00:44:50.667 --> 00:44:52.250
<i>one of
the fabled Seven Sisters.</i>

923
00:44:52.334 --> 00:44:55.042
<i>It began as the Texas Company
outside Beaumont, Texas,</i>

924
00:44:55.125 --> 00:44:59.000
<i>and it was the fifth largest
company in America
when this all started.</i>

925
00:44:59.083 --> 00:45:04.542
<i>♪ There's money coming
out of the ground ♪</i>

926
00:45:04.626 --> 00:45:08.792
<i>♪ There's tons of money
running 'round ♪</i>

927
00:45:11.626 --> 00:45:17.000
This all began as a fairly
plain vanilla takeover.

928
00:45:17.083 --> 00:45:20.626
<i>One medium-size oil company,
Pennzoil in Houston,</i>

929
00:45:20.709 --> 00:45:24.292
<i>goes after another one,
Getty in Los Angeles.</i>

930
00:45:24.375 --> 00:45:26.334
<i>So the deal is done,</i>

931
00:45:26.417 --> 00:45:27.751
<i>when out of nowhere,</i>

932
00:45:27.834 --> 00:45:29.000
<i>Texaco swoops in</i>

933
00:45:29.083 --> 00:45:31.667
<i>and snatches Getty
away from Pennzoil.</i>

934
00:45:31.751 --> 00:45:33.459
reporter:
<i>The amount boggles the mind.</i>

935
00:45:33.542 --> 00:45:36.125
<i>$10 billion offered by Texaco</i>

936
00:45:36.209 --> 00:45:38.375
and accepted by Getty Oil
in principle

937
00:45:38.459 --> 00:45:41.375
to accomplish the largest
merger in corporate history.

938
00:45:41.459 --> 00:45:44.209
♪ ♪

939
00:45:44.292 --> 00:45:46.542
Burrough:
<i>Pennzoil CEO Hugh Liedtke</i>

940
00:45:46.626 --> 00:45:49.167
<i>was fit to be tied.
He was gonna get Getty.</i>

941
00:45:49.250 --> 00:45:52.250
He was gonna go to war,
and it became a war

942
00:45:52.334 --> 00:45:56.459
really unlike anything else in,
on Wall Street in the '80s.

943
00:45:56.542 --> 00:45:58.375
There just had never been
anything like it.

944
00:45:58.459 --> 00:45:59.918
<i>♪ There's blood coming ♪</i>

945
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.167
<i>♪ Out of the ground ♪</i>

946
00:46:03.250 --> 00:46:04.542
<i>♪ There's blood... ♪</i>

947
00:46:04.626 --> 00:46:06.626
analyst:
<i>You know, it is a soap opera.</i>

948
00:46:06.709 --> 00:46:08.834
<i>You have
the classic ingredients.</i>

949
00:46:08.918 --> 00:46:11.500
You have greed on one side
and fear and loathing
on the other.

950
00:46:11.584 --> 00:46:13.334
<i>♪ There's blood... ♪</i>

951
00:46:13.417 --> 00:46:16.375
Burrough:<i> Pennzoil's CEO</i>
<i>went and hired a lawyer</i>

952
00:46:16.459 --> 00:46:17.959
named Joe Jamail in Houston,

953
00:46:18.042 --> 00:46:20.375
who is a very different
type of fella.

954
00:46:20.459 --> 00:46:24.334
(upbeat music playing)

955
00:46:24.417 --> 00:46:26.751
Wilbur Ross:
<i>Jamail was famous.</i>

956
00:46:26.834 --> 00:46:28.709
He wore snakeskin boots,

957
00:46:28.792 --> 00:46:32.292
big pointy toes,
flew in his own private jet.

958
00:46:32.375 --> 00:46:36.375
He was
a larger-than-life character.

959
00:46:36.459 --> 00:46:40.209
Burrough:<i> Joe came from</i>
<i>the world of personal</i>
<i>injury lawyers,</i>

960
00:46:40.292 --> 00:46:42.959
<i>and the only way he gets
paid back is if he wins.</i>

961
00:46:43.042 --> 00:46:46.167
So no one had more at stake
in this than Joe Jamail.

962
00:46:46.250 --> 00:46:48.417
This is a totally
irresponsible act,

963
00:46:48.500 --> 00:46:52.125
and, uh, one more sleaze move
that they're gonna slide in.

964
00:46:52.209 --> 00:46:54.667
<i>Texaco, they go down there
and they say,</i>

965
00:46:54.751 --> 00:46:56.417
<i>"We're not going
to dignify this case."</i>

966
00:46:56.500 --> 00:46:57.959
<i>And Jamail loves that</i>

967
00:46:58.042 --> 00:47:00.834
<i>'cause his jury
are all his cousins
and stuff up there...</i>

968
00:47:00.918 --> 00:47:02.459
<i>And so Jamail
loves that stuff.</i>

969
00:47:02.542 --> 00:47:06.459
And Joe Jamail was as good
at orchestrating

970
00:47:06.542 --> 00:47:08.375
<i>the goings on
in a Texas courtroom</i>

971
00:47:08.459 --> 00:47:10.542
as anybody that's
ever walked the Earth.

972
00:47:10.626 --> 00:47:14.167
reporter:<i> Here in Texas,</i>
<i>they're calling it</i>
<i>the showdown in the courtroom.</i>

973
00:47:14.250 --> 00:47:16.125
(gavel banging)

974
00:47:18.167 --> 00:47:20.918
<i>And Wall Street traders have
observers in the courtroom</i>

975
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.209
<i>with cellular phones
talking to New York.</i>

976
00:47:24.292 --> 00:47:27.209
reporter 2:<i> When the jury</i>
<i>returned its unanimous verdict,</i>

977
00:47:27.292 --> 00:47:29.417
<i>Pennzoil and Jamail
emerged victorious,</i>

978
00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:32.334
<i>the winner of the largest
jury verdict in history.</i>

979
00:47:32.417 --> 00:47:34.918
A Texas jury has ordered
the Texaco corporation

980
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.209
to pay more than $10.5 billion
to Pennzoil.

981
00:47:38.292 --> 00:47:42.918
reporter:<i> And would have</i>
<i>to start paying interest</i>
<i>on that amount immediately.</i>

982
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.918
Peter Jennings:
<i>The biggest bankruptcy</i>
<i>in American history.</i>

983
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:49.375
<i>Texaco Inc.
filed for protection...</i>

984
00:47:49.459 --> 00:47:51.375
reporter:<i> It was a decision</i>
<i>of last resort,</i>

985
00:47:51.459 --> 00:47:53.375
<i>said Texaco president
James Kinnear,</i>

986
00:47:53.459 --> 00:47:55.500
<i>to file for court
bankruptcy protection</i>

987
00:47:55.584 --> 00:47:58.292
<i>in order to prevent Texaco
from collapsing entirely.</i>

988
00:47:58.375 --> 00:48:02.083
The CEO of Texaco, Jim Kinnear,

989
00:48:02.167 --> 00:48:04.334
went absolutely berserk

990
00:48:04.417 --> 00:48:06.834
and in my view

991
00:48:06.918 --> 00:48:08.459
was recklessly willing

992
00:48:08.542 --> 00:48:10.250
to gamble the whole company.

993
00:48:10.334 --> 00:48:14.459
reporter:<i> The value of Texaco</i>
<i>stock has taken a nosedive.</i>

994
00:48:14.542 --> 00:48:17.209
Most of us thought, you know,
it actually did look like

995
00:48:17.292 --> 00:48:18.792
Texaco could go under.

996
00:48:18.876 --> 00:48:22.417
And I think the only person
who thought it might not

997
00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:23.751
was Carl Icahn.

998
00:48:23.834 --> 00:48:25.751
Carl:
<i>You have to buy things</i>

999
00:48:25.834 --> 00:48:28.542
<i>where the rest of the world
are looking at you</i>

1000
00:48:28.626 --> 00:48:30.334
<i>and thinking you're
a little bit crazy.</i>

1001
00:48:30.417 --> 00:48:31.751
<i>You're going
against the trend.</i>

1002
00:48:31.834 --> 00:48:35.334
A lot of times,
events are overblown.

1003
00:48:35.417 --> 00:48:38.459
Overblown on the good side,
overblown on the bad side.

1004
00:48:38.542 --> 00:48:41.167
<i>My instincts looked Texaco</i>

1005
00:48:41.250 --> 00:48:43.417
<i>as a really good
fundamental company.</i>

1006
00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:44.751
This thing is dirt cheap.

1007
00:48:44.834 --> 00:48:46.667
I took a shot
and bought all that stock

1008
00:48:46.751 --> 00:48:48.667
'cause I knew
they had to get rational,

1009
00:48:48.751 --> 00:48:50.500
and I was going to get
instrumental in it.

1010
00:48:50.584 --> 00:48:54.918
(phone ringing)

1011
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:58.417
Jamail calls me up
and he says, you know,

1012
00:48:58.500 --> 00:49:00.834
(southern accent):
<i>"You're a sensible man.</i>

1013
00:49:00.918 --> 00:49:03.542
<i>I wanna come talk to you.
You own a lot of stock."</i>

1014
00:49:03.626 --> 00:49:05.125
(normal voice):
And he calls me "boy."

1015
00:49:05.209 --> 00:49:06.792
"You got a lot riding
on this, boy."

1016
00:49:06.876 --> 00:49:09.042
But before he came,
I called Kinnear.

1017
00:49:09.125 --> 00:49:10.459
(line ringing)

1018
00:49:10.542 --> 00:49:11.918
<i>I get Jim on the phone.</i>

1019
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.167
<i>You know, he says,
"I'm not talking to anybody,</i>

1020
00:49:14.250 --> 00:49:17.876
<i>and I'm not making
any settlement offer,
and that's it."</i>

1021
00:49:17.959 --> 00:49:21.292
I said, "Okay,
I want you to do this,
so just listen to me.

1022
00:49:21.375 --> 00:49:24.667
"I'm gonna start
with numbers from 12 down.

1023
00:49:24.751 --> 00:49:26.167
"12, 11, 10, Jim?

1024
00:49:26.250 --> 00:49:29.250
"And when you get to the number
that you will settle for

1025
00:49:29.334 --> 00:49:31.959
"and accept to get this fuckin'
thing over with,

1026
00:49:32.042 --> 00:49:35.209
all you gotta do is say
'okay' and hang up."

1027
00:49:35.292 --> 00:49:38.959
So I started, "12, 11, 10, 9..."

1028
00:49:39.042 --> 00:49:42.209
I get to 3, he says "okay"
and hangs up.

1029
00:49:42.292 --> 00:49:44.709
So now I know
he would do it for 3.

1030
00:49:46.959 --> 00:49:50.209
<i>So now Jamail
walks in with Liedtke,</i>

1031
00:49:50.292 --> 00:49:51.667
<i>and Jamail says...</i>

1032
00:49:56.584 --> 00:49:59.042
I said, "Come on, this is
the biggest bullshit case

1033
00:49:59.125 --> 00:50:00.667
I've ever seen,
so stop the bullshit."

1034
00:50:00.751 --> 00:50:05.542
So he goes, "We would settle
this case for $10 billion."

1035
00:50:05.626 --> 00:50:07.083
So I say, "You know, Joe,

1036
00:50:07.167 --> 00:50:09.918
you ain't never gonna get
$10 billion so forget it."

1037
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:11.959
And Liedtke gets up, irate,
you know.

1038
00:50:12.042 --> 00:50:15.125
It's a little bit of an act,
and he says, "I'm leavin',"

1039
00:50:15.209 --> 00:50:17.083
and the two of them
start walking out.

1040
00:50:17.167 --> 00:50:20.375
Jamail turns around
as he gets to the door.

1041
00:50:20.459 --> 00:50:21.876
He says, "You know..."

1042
00:50:26.542 --> 00:50:28.167
<i>"Let's you and I
go have a drink."</i>

1043
00:50:28.250 --> 00:50:30.125
I said, "It's 10:30
in the morning.

1044
00:50:30.209 --> 00:50:33.000
I'm here on Sixth Avenue.
Where the hell am I
going to have a drink?"

1045
00:50:33.083 --> 00:50:36.375
♪ ♪

1046
00:50:36.459 --> 00:50:39.709
So now we go out,
walking on Sixth Avenue.

1047
00:50:39.792 --> 00:50:41.959
And the Parker Meridian,
we walk in there,

1048
00:50:42.042 --> 00:50:44.751
and it was like, you know,
they weren't ready
for lunch yet

1049
00:50:44.834 --> 00:50:46.959
and they had all the chairs
on the tables and all.

1050
00:50:47.042 --> 00:50:48.584
But I know
the maître d' a little.

1051
00:50:48.667 --> 00:50:51.083
I said, "I wanna have a drink."
He said, "We're not open."

1052
00:50:51.167 --> 00:50:53.667
I said, "Just take
those two chairs off the table

1053
00:50:53.751 --> 00:50:55.876
and bring me a bottle of vodka."

1054
00:50:55.959 --> 00:50:57.626
And that's it.

1055
00:50:57.709 --> 00:51:01.584
And Jamail sits down,
he's taking the vodka.
So he goes...

1056
00:51:08.500 --> 00:51:10.250
I said, "Don't even negotiate."
He said,

1057
00:51:10.334 --> 00:51:12.876
"Well, you know we ain't takin'
less than nine billion."

1058
00:51:12.959 --> 00:51:14.751
He's now down to nine
or something.

1059
00:51:14.834 --> 00:51:16.542
I said, "Do you want the number,

1060
00:51:16.626 --> 00:51:18.125
or you wanna just bullshit?"

1061
00:51:18.209 --> 00:51:20.000
He looks at me
and he goes...

1062
00:51:28.375 --> 00:51:30.167
I said, "Yeah, I think I know."

1063
00:51:30.250 --> 00:51:32.334
I said,
"There's no negotiating.

1064
00:51:32.417 --> 00:51:34.500
The number is $3 billion."

1065
00:51:34.584 --> 00:51:37.751
He looks at me and he goes,
takes his hand...

1066
00:51:49.876 --> 00:51:52.125
♪ ♪

1067
00:51:52.209 --> 00:51:53.709
<i>And I said, "Okay."</i>

1068
00:51:53.792 --> 00:51:56.459
And now he's sitting there
and he's drinking the vodka,

1069
00:51:56.542 --> 00:51:58.834
and he's laughing,
he's got the Stetson hat.

1070
00:51:58.918 --> 00:52:00.459
And all these people
are coming in now.

1071
00:52:00.542 --> 00:52:02.334
I say, "So, let me ask you
a question, Joe."

1072
00:52:02.417 --> 00:52:05.042
I say, "The way I figure it,
you just made yourself

1073
00:52:05.125 --> 00:52:07.500
$600 million
for three weeks' work."

1074
00:52:07.584 --> 00:52:09.918
"Yes, I did, yes, I did.

1075
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:11.626
"You're right,
you're good at math.

1076
00:52:11.709 --> 00:52:14.209
"$600 million," he smiled.
People are listening now.

1077
00:52:14.292 --> 00:52:17.209
<i>You know, all well-dressed
people looking at this guy</i>

1078
00:52:17.292 --> 00:52:19.209
<i>with his feet up on the table.</i>

1079
00:52:19.292 --> 00:52:21.334
I said, "Well, what good works
are you gonna do?"

1080
00:52:21.417 --> 00:52:22.792
"What you mean 'good works'?"

1081
00:52:22.876 --> 00:52:26.209
I said, "Soup kitchen,
you know, medical research."

1082
00:52:26.292 --> 00:52:28.042
"I'll tell you what I'm
gonna do with the money.

1083
00:52:28.125 --> 00:52:30.083
"I'll tell you what..."
and he did it.

1084
00:52:30.167 --> 00:52:32.667
"I'm gonna buy pussy!"

1085
00:52:32.751 --> 00:52:35.751
-(crowd laughing)
<i>-"I'm gonna buy pussy!"</i>

1086
00:52:35.834 --> 00:52:37.626
<i>The headwaiter
comes running over,</i>

1087
00:52:37.709 --> 00:52:39.334
<i>headwater comes running over
and says,</i>

1088
00:52:39.417 --> 00:52:41.500
<i>"You know, Mr. Icahn,
I think you better leave."</i>

1089
00:52:41.584 --> 00:52:43.459
<i>-I say, "Yeah."</i>
-(laughter)

1090
00:52:43.542 --> 00:52:45.417
<i>That's it, and I left.
That was it.</i>

1091
00:52:45.500 --> 00:52:47.667
(applause)

1092
00:52:47.751 --> 00:52:50.417
A multibillion-dollar
settlement early today,

1093
00:52:50.500 --> 00:52:53.083
the largest legal settlement
in this country's history.

1094
00:52:53.167 --> 00:52:55.083
reporter:<i> Texaco has agreed</i>
<i>to pay Pennzoil</i>

1095
00:52:55.167 --> 00:52:58.125
<i>a staggering $3 billion
to settle a court case.</i>

1096
00:53:01.125 --> 00:53:03.667
Stephen Labaton:
<i>Carl walked into this situation</i>

1097
00:53:03.751 --> 00:53:07.417
<i>and basically forced
a settlement down Texaco.</i>

1098
00:53:07.500 --> 00:53:09.918
<i>Carl was not done
after the settlement.</i>

1099
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:12.209
<i>He saw
continued potential value</i>

1100
00:53:12.292 --> 00:53:14.125
and made a pretty hefty profit.

1101
00:53:14.209 --> 00:53:16.250
I think it was around
$600 million

1102
00:53:16.334 --> 00:53:18.167
that he made
on that transaction.

1103
00:53:18.250 --> 00:53:20.709
Jennings:
<i>On Wall Street today,</i>
<i>the trading was heavy.</i>

1104
00:53:20.792 --> 00:53:23.125
<i>One reason: the sale
of a huge block of Texaco,</i>

1105
00:53:23.209 --> 00:53:26.167
<i>42 million shares
worth $2 billion.</i>

1106
00:53:26.250 --> 00:53:28.125
That is the biggest single trade
ever on Wall Street.

1107
00:53:28.209 --> 00:53:31.209
The seller is believed to be
the takeover specialist
Carl Icahn.

1108
00:53:31.292 --> 00:53:32.918
Let me show you something.

1109
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:36.209
You can use this.
This is sort of
something for ya.

1110
00:53:36.292 --> 00:53:38.459
So... (laughs)

1111
00:53:38.542 --> 00:53:40.667
This is sort of one
of my favorite pictures.

1112
00:53:40.751 --> 00:53:43.876
Look. This was sent to me
by Joe Jamail.

1113
00:53:43.959 --> 00:53:47.792
And, you see, this is the way
he was in the restaurant,

1114
00:53:47.876 --> 00:53:49.334
when we talked about it.

1115
00:53:49.417 --> 00:53:51.125
You see the shoes.

1116
00:53:51.209 --> 00:53:53.292
And he was a real character.

1117
00:53:53.375 --> 00:53:55.584
And he writes, "Friend Carl,

1118
00:53:55.667 --> 00:53:56.751
shit happens."

1119
00:53:56.834 --> 00:53:59.125
"Joe Jamail."

1120
00:53:59.209 --> 00:54:01.125
So I keep this around.

1121
00:54:04.292 --> 00:54:07.083
(tranquil music playing)

1122
00:54:07.167 --> 00:54:09.250
<i>When I started out,</i>

1123
00:54:09.334 --> 00:54:12.709
<i>I learned the hard way,</i>

1124
00:54:12.792 --> 00:54:17.500
<i>playing the market,
it's a competitive area,
it's gambling.</i>

1125
00:54:17.584 --> 00:54:21.375
<i>Too many variables, too many
people competing with you.</i>

1126
00:54:21.459 --> 00:54:26.292
<i>You can't believe that
the gambling will carry you.</i>

1127
00:54:26.375 --> 00:54:32.709
♪ ♪

1128
00:54:32.792 --> 00:54:36.417
<i>So, you look for something
I call a "no-brainer."</i>

1129
00:54:36.500 --> 00:54:39.042
<i>Very little risk,
but a lot of reward.</i>

1130
00:54:39.125 --> 00:54:41.876
<i>After a while, it becomes
somewhat instinctive,</i>

1131
00:54:41.959 --> 00:54:46.542
<i>that you see something
that's not really apparent
to everyone.</i>

1132
00:54:46.626 --> 00:54:48.709
♪ ♪

1133
00:54:57.167 --> 00:54:59.876
<i>But there's tough times
when you're not gonna enjoy it.</i>

1134
00:54:59.959 --> 00:55:02.375
<i>You know, you're gonna lose
and you gotta be
willing to say,</i>

1135
00:55:02.459 --> 00:55:03.876
<i>"Hey, if I lose, so what?"</i>

1136
00:55:03.959 --> 00:55:07.292
<i>It's like that great
Rudyard Kipling poem.</i>

1137
00:55:07.375 --> 00:55:10.792
<i>"If you can meet
with Triumph and Disaster</i>

1138
00:55:10.876 --> 00:55:15.209
<i>and treat those two impostors
just the same..."</i>

1139
00:55:15.292 --> 00:55:16.918
<i>That's important.</i>

1140
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:19.250
♪ ♪

1141
00:55:26.042 --> 00:55:30.167
<i>But you have to have
a passion for it.</i>

1142
00:55:30.250 --> 00:55:33.000
<i>You get a great feeling
when you find a company,</i>

1143
00:55:33.083 --> 00:55:35.292
<i>when you find something
you can do.</i>

1144
00:55:35.375 --> 00:55:36.918
<i>You get excited by it.</i>

1145
00:55:37.042 --> 00:55:40.083
<i>And by instinct now,
something goes "click,"</i>

1146
00:55:40.167 --> 00:55:42.083
<i>and you know it's good.</i>

1147
00:55:42.167 --> 00:55:44.250
<i>It all sums up
in that movie "The Hustler,"</i>

1148
00:55:44.334 --> 00:55:48.417
<i>where, when he shoots
the ball, he says...</i>

1149
00:55:48.500 --> 00:55:50.334
<i>You know,
I got a hunch, fat man.</i>

1150
00:55:50.417 --> 00:55:52.709
<i>I got a hunch
it's me from here on in.</i>

1151
00:55:53.918 --> 00:55:55.542
<i>One ball, corner pocket.</i>

1152
00:55:57.042 --> 00:55:58.959
<i>I mean,
that ever happen to you,</i>

1153
00:55:59.042 --> 00:56:02.125
<i>where all of a sudden,
you feel like you can't miss?</i>

1154
00:56:05.584 --> 00:56:09.083
When I hear the click,
I know I won.

1155
00:56:12.375 --> 00:56:14.542
(rhythmic percussion
music playing)

1156
00:56:20.459 --> 00:56:23.709
<i>♪ Leading the way ♪</i>

1157
00:56:23.792 --> 00:56:26.375
announcer:
<i>TWA presents the difference</i>

1158
00:56:26.459 --> 00:56:28.584
<i>between getting you
where you're going</i>

1159
00:56:28.667 --> 00:56:30.709
<i>and leading the way.</i>

1160
00:56:30.792 --> 00:56:32.459
(upbeat music playing)

1161
00:56:32.542 --> 00:56:33.792
<i>What's that?</i>

1162
00:56:33.876 --> 00:56:35.334
-(reporters laughing)
<i>-What was that?</i>

1163
00:56:35.417 --> 00:56:38.292
man:<i> Waiting for</i>
<i>the equipment to warm up.</i>

1164
00:56:38.375 --> 00:56:41.334
<i>I see you have problems
with equipment as we do.</i>

1165
00:56:41.417 --> 00:56:43.250
<i>Uh...</i>

1166
00:56:43.334 --> 00:56:45.125
<i>I thank you all for coming.</i>

1167
00:56:45.209 --> 00:56:47.209
<i>I'd just like to say that, uh,</i>

1168
00:56:47.292 --> 00:56:50.083
<i>we're doing quite well
with our scheduling.</i>

1169
00:56:50.167 --> 00:56:53.709
<i>TWA, I can tell you now
for sure, is here to stay.</i>

1170
00:56:53.792 --> 00:56:58.209
(somber music playing)

1171
00:57:07.125 --> 00:57:10.834
Burrough:
<i>This was an awful time</i>
<i>in the airline business.</i>

1172
00:57:10.918 --> 00:57:13.250
And a lot of these companies
were under fire,

1173
00:57:13.334 --> 00:57:15.459
were the focus
of corporate raiders.

1174
00:57:15.542 --> 00:57:17.417
And when this fella,
Frank Lorenzo,

1175
00:57:17.500 --> 00:57:19.584
goes after TWA...

1176
00:57:21.417 --> 00:57:24.292
he was deeply, deeply
unpopular in the business.

1177
00:57:24.375 --> 00:57:27.459
<i>Show me a business person
that doesn't like a monopoly</i>

1178
00:57:27.542 --> 00:57:29.125
<i>and I'll show you a big liar.</i>

1179
00:57:29.209 --> 00:57:30.959
-(audience laughing)
<i>-Okay?</i>

1180
00:57:31.042 --> 00:57:34.876
reporter:<i> Lorenzo was known</i>
<i>for being tough on unions.</i>

1181
00:57:34.959 --> 00:57:36.834
Burrough:
<i>So, at TWA,</i>

1182
00:57:36.918 --> 00:57:39.375
the unions actually
went to Carl.

1183
00:57:41.292 --> 00:57:43.042
Carl:
<i>So they all met with me.</i>

1184
00:57:43.125 --> 00:57:44.542
They really wanted me to come in

1185
00:57:44.626 --> 00:57:47.292
because they needed somebody
to fight off Lorenzo.

1186
00:57:47.375 --> 00:57:49.959
announcer:
<i>Today's TWA is the new spirit</i>

1187
00:57:50.042 --> 00:57:52.083
<i>and vitality of our people.</i>

1188
00:57:52.167 --> 00:57:55.834
So they said, "We'll give you
huge concessions if you do it."

1189
00:57:55.918 --> 00:57:58.125
So I looked at the numbers
and said, "Yeah,

1190
00:57:58.209 --> 00:58:00.292
"if you guys give
these concessions,

1191
00:58:00.375 --> 00:58:02.751
you could just save
a lot of capital here."

1192
00:58:02.834 --> 00:58:04.876
(music box playing)

1193
00:58:08.083 --> 00:58:10.876
The staff gave me
this toy plane

1194
00:58:10.959 --> 00:58:12.876
to commemorate the TWA deal.

1195
00:58:12.959 --> 00:58:15.751
(music box playing)

1196
00:58:17.918 --> 00:58:23.417
Carl Icahn takes control
and is now running TWA.

1197
00:58:23.500 --> 00:58:26.083
Carl Icahn,
the controversial financier

1198
00:58:26.167 --> 00:58:28.751
known for his attacks
on corporate management.

1199
00:58:28.834 --> 00:58:31.375
Now they will be watching
to see how he himself

1200
00:58:31.459 --> 00:58:33.626
handles the management
of a major corporation.

1201
00:58:33.709 --> 00:58:35.417
♪ ♪

1202
00:58:35.500 --> 00:58:37.709
Wapner:<i> Carl had never</i>
<i>run anything before.</i>

1203
00:58:37.792 --> 00:58:40.250
<i>Certainly nothing
like an airline.</i>

1204
00:58:40.334 --> 00:58:42.125
You're dealing with the economy,

1205
00:58:42.209 --> 00:58:43.751
you're dealing with unions,

1206
00:58:43.834 --> 00:58:47.209
and that was his biggest fight
right off the bat.

1207
00:58:47.292 --> 00:58:49.709
<i>We want a TWA that can exist
and it will exist</i>

1208
00:58:49.792 --> 00:58:52.459
<i>because all the employees
have come behind us.</i>

1209
00:58:52.542 --> 00:58:54.167
<i>The employees have given.</i>

1210
00:58:54.250 --> 00:58:56.834
When it came time
to give the concessions,

1211
00:58:56.918 --> 00:59:01.542
the pilots lived up
to their bargain
and so did the machinists,

1212
00:59:01.626 --> 00:59:03.375
and then the flight attendants,
Vicki Frankovich,

1213
00:59:03.459 --> 00:59:05.834
comes in and says,
"We can't do it."

1214
00:59:08.375 --> 00:59:12.667
Carl Icahn came in and demanded
changes in everything.

1215
00:59:12.751 --> 00:59:14.626
She said,
"You got enough, it's too bad."

1216
00:59:14.709 --> 00:59:17.417
I said, "Bullshit. You made
a deal, you got to stick to it."

1217
00:59:21.667 --> 00:59:24.876
striker:
Carl Icahn not fair
to flight attendants!

1218
00:59:24.959 --> 00:59:28.083
Fifteen days into the strike
by TWA flight attendants,

1219
00:59:28.167 --> 00:59:32.000
<i>there is no sign of
conciliation by either side.</i>

1220
00:59:32.083 --> 00:59:35.209
At issue, company-proposed
wage rollbacks.

1221
00:59:35.292 --> 00:59:38.667
<i>TWA employees confronting
a bottom-line businessman.</i>

1222
00:59:38.751 --> 00:59:40.709
<i>The work rules
we must have to survive.</i>

1223
00:59:40.792 --> 00:59:42.292
We are not asking
for very much.

1224
00:59:42.375 --> 00:59:44.751
The changes he's asking
are drastic.

1225
00:59:44.834 --> 00:59:46.292
Carl:<i> This company</i>
<i>would have been bankrupt</i>

1226
00:59:46.375 --> 00:59:48.292
<i>if I hadn't come along
and saved the damn thing.</i>

1227
00:59:48.375 --> 00:59:50.584
Carl Icahn
is a corporate raider.

1228
00:59:50.667 --> 00:59:52.250
<i>♪ TWA ♪</i>

1229
00:59:52.334 --> 00:59:55.000
You know, literally they'd say,
"We got you by the balls,

1230
00:59:55.083 --> 00:59:58.292
the great Mr. Icahn,
because you need us to fly."

1231
00:59:58.375 --> 01:00:01.209
♪ ♪

1232
01:00:01.292 --> 01:00:03.334
So, what I thought of is this,
I said, "Wait a minute,

1233
01:00:03.417 --> 01:00:05.834
why can't we just bring in
new flight attendants?"

1234
01:00:05.918 --> 01:00:08.209
"Oh, because they gotta
be licensed."

1235
01:00:08.292 --> 01:00:10.626
-(alert chimes)
-(air hisses)

1236
01:00:10.709 --> 01:00:13.834
I said, "Set up a school
for flight attendants."

1237
01:00:13.918 --> 01:00:15.459
"Eh, I don't know.

1238
01:00:15.542 --> 01:00:17.751
We can't do that."
I said, "Well, why not?"

1239
01:00:17.834 --> 01:00:19.042
"Nobody ever did that."

1240
01:00:19.125 --> 01:00:20.918
I said, "Set up
the goddamn school,"

1241
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.292
and from all over the country,
I couldn't believe it,

1242
01:00:23.375 --> 01:00:25.334
all these people want
to be flight attendants.

1243
01:00:25.417 --> 01:00:28.083
And then Frankovich
now goes crazy.

1244
01:00:28.167 --> 01:00:31.083
She sees all this happening.

1245
01:00:31.167 --> 01:00:34.709
striker: The flight attendants
are out here today because
they want to show Carl Icahn

1246
01:00:34.792 --> 01:00:37.500
that we are still united
and we're still determined
to win this battle.

1247
01:00:37.584 --> 01:00:41.542
We're holding together better
than any other union I know
that has struck in the past.

1248
01:00:41.626 --> 01:00:44.876
Some woman down the road
calls me up, panicked.

1249
01:00:44.959 --> 01:00:47.167
"There are a thousand people
walking up the road,

1250
01:00:47.250 --> 01:00:48.459
chanting and screaming."

1251
01:00:48.542 --> 01:00:50.167
"What's going on, Carl?"
you know.

1252
01:00:50.250 --> 01:00:53.167
She says,
"I'm calling the police.
I'm calling the police."

1253
01:00:53.250 --> 01:00:54.751
(siren wails)

1254
01:00:54.834 --> 01:00:57.918
(intense music playing)

1255
01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:00.250
(strikers chanting)

1256
01:01:00.334 --> 01:01:03.459
reporter:
<i>These flight attendants</i>
<i>took the unusual step</i>

1257
01:01:03.542 --> 01:01:05.459
<i>of taking their case
right to the home</i>

1258
01:01:05.542 --> 01:01:07.709
<i>of TWA chairman Carl Icahn.</i>

1259
01:01:14.959 --> 01:01:17.042
I said, "Bullshit," and I went
out there with the kids.

1260
01:01:17.125 --> 01:01:19.334
"You're not taking the kids."
I said, "I'm taking the kids."

1261
01:01:27.834 --> 01:01:29.584
striker:
Here's the lies right here,

1262
01:01:29.667 --> 01:01:30.959
our new work rules.

1263
01:01:31.042 --> 01:01:34.125
(strikers complaining)

1264
01:01:34.209 --> 01:01:36.042
Well, that's what...
this is, this is...

1265
01:01:36.125 --> 01:01:38.083
You know, I can't...
You're being a little...

1266
01:01:38.167 --> 01:01:40.292
-woman: Quiet, let him talk.
-Carl: You've got an airline

1267
01:01:40.375 --> 01:01:42.500
that's losing
200 million bucks in '85

1268
01:01:42.584 --> 01:01:44.709
and it's losing a lot
in this quarter...

1269
01:01:44.792 --> 01:01:48.042
(strikers drowning out Icahn)

1270
01:01:48.125 --> 01:01:49.375
'Cause we can't compete.

1271
01:01:49.459 --> 01:01:51.542
-Can I finish?
-(strikers clamoring)

1272
01:01:51.626 --> 01:01:53.751
You wanna listen?
You come to my home
on a Saturday,

1273
01:01:53.834 --> 01:01:55.709
I've still
come out here to talk to you,

1274
01:01:55.792 --> 01:01:57.459
and I want--
and I think you should
give me the courtesy

1275
01:01:57.542 --> 01:01:59.209
to listen
as long as I'm talking to you.

1276
01:01:59.292 --> 01:02:00.459
-man: That's fair.
-Miss Frankovich

1277
01:02:00.542 --> 01:02:02.125
should have come
to that meeting in August,

1278
01:02:02.209 --> 01:02:03.417
you don't like to hear it,

1279
01:02:03.500 --> 01:02:05.083
because at that time
I could have got financing.

1280
01:02:05.167 --> 01:02:06.334
I told her I need
three people there,

1281
01:02:06.417 --> 01:02:07.626
she says,
"I'm going to a party,"

1282
01:02:07.709 --> 01:02:10.459
-and that's the truth of it.
-(crowd clamoring)

1283
01:02:10.542 --> 01:02:13.375
-I'm telling you what happened.
You don't wanna hear it.
-man: Cheap shot.

1284
01:02:13.459 --> 01:02:16.209
-That's a cheap shot.
-Carl: Now, let me finish up.

1285
01:02:16.292 --> 01:02:18.292
Could I? Then you can talk.
Instead of yelling.

1286
01:02:18.375 --> 01:02:21.375
-You're brainwashed.
-man: No, we are reasonable.

1287
01:02:21.459 --> 01:02:23.292
I mean this.
I am not here to hurt you.

1288
01:02:23.375 --> 01:02:25.876
I think a lot of people
are getting wrong
information from her.

1289
01:02:25.959 --> 01:02:28.042
<i>I'm getting a lot of calls from
a lot of flight attendants,</i>

1290
01:02:28.125 --> 01:02:30.250
<i>say they'd love to come back,
they're being
intimidated by her...</i>

1291
01:02:30.334 --> 01:02:33.042
-that they're being
scared by her.
-strikers: No!

1292
01:02:33.125 --> 01:02:35.417
-man:<i> That's not true.</i>
-(strikers clamoring)

1293
01:02:35.500 --> 01:02:38.459
(chuckles) That is good.

1294
01:02:38.542 --> 01:02:41.334
Yeah, I remember that.

1295
01:02:41.417 --> 01:02:43.626
I wanna keep that,
that's a good clip.

1296
01:02:43.709 --> 01:02:45.292
Show that to my grandchildren.

1297
01:02:45.375 --> 01:02:48.083
I have a whole group
that's willing to meet.
She says she wants me there.

1298
01:02:48.167 --> 01:02:51.417
You can't force me
to like somebody, okay?
I don't like dealing with her.

1299
01:02:51.500 --> 01:02:55.250
Okay? Because she lies.
But that doesn't mean I don't
have a whole group of people

1300
01:02:55.334 --> 01:02:57.083
that are there
qualified to talk to her.

1301
01:02:57.167 --> 01:02:59.751
We're willing to talk.
I don't wanna be there with her.

1302
01:03:01.584 --> 01:03:03.000
It was sort of exciting.

1303
01:03:03.083 --> 01:03:05.959
(strikers jeering)

1304
01:03:06.042 --> 01:03:07.459
Carl:<i> The strikers</i>
<i>didn't understand.</i>

1305
01:03:07.542 --> 01:03:09.042
Frankovich told them
a lot of bullshit.

1306
01:03:09.125 --> 01:03:11.209
And a lot of them
agreed with me.

1307
01:03:11.292 --> 01:03:13.375
After a week,
she pulled them off,

1308
01:03:13.459 --> 01:03:15.334
she wouldn't let them come
to my house anymore

1309
01:03:15.417 --> 01:03:17.584
'cause they were all
now complaining to her.

1310
01:03:19.334 --> 01:03:21.626
Wapner:
<i>I don't know if Carl expected</i>

1311
01:03:21.709 --> 01:03:24.083
that he was gonna have
this kind of turbulence

1312
01:03:24.167 --> 01:03:25.626
right off the bat.

1313
01:03:25.709 --> 01:03:27.083
I think he would tell you
he thought he was

1314
01:03:27.167 --> 01:03:29.959
fighting the good fight,
and yet what he was doing

1315
01:03:30.042 --> 01:03:32.250
played into every stereotype

1316
01:03:32.334 --> 01:03:34.709
of the evil Wall Street
financier.

1317
01:03:34.792 --> 01:03:37.000
The companies
that he leaves behind

1318
01:03:37.083 --> 01:03:38.459
incur a tremendous
amount of debt

1319
01:03:38.542 --> 01:03:40.292
and then they
start laying off,

1320
01:03:40.375 --> 01:03:41.918
and that's more
and more Americans

1321
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:43.250
falling below
the poverty line.

1322
01:03:43.334 --> 01:03:45.626
I've been seeing
a counselor since the strike

1323
01:03:45.709 --> 01:03:48.667
because it is emotionally
devastating to have lost...

1324
01:03:48.751 --> 01:03:50.959
I mean, I've been a flight
attendant my entire adult life.

1325
01:03:51.042 --> 01:03:52.626
Every one
of those flight attendants

1326
01:03:52.709 --> 01:03:55.167
could have walked across
the picket line, which many did.

1327
01:03:55.250 --> 01:03:58.042
Many of them said,
"Hey, Vicki Frankovich,
the heck with it."

1328
01:03:58.125 --> 01:03:59.542
They could have
kept their jobs.

1329
01:03:59.626 --> 01:04:01.959
I didn't tell you not to cross,
we begged you to cross.

1330
01:04:02.042 --> 01:04:03.792
We came out, we told you
over and over.

1331
01:04:03.876 --> 01:04:05.375
They had work rules
that we couldn't afford.

1332
01:04:05.459 --> 01:04:07.959
If I hadn't come along
and borrowed $700 million

1333
01:04:08.042 --> 01:04:09.375
on my name,
you'd be chapter 11.

1334
01:04:09.459 --> 01:04:11.459
If you're chapter 11,
it wouldn't do you any damn good

1335
01:04:11.542 --> 01:04:13.834
'cause you wouldn't be working,
you'd be like Eastern.

1336
01:04:17.667 --> 01:04:20.459
Pan Am, Eastern, and Braniff,

1337
01:04:20.542 --> 01:04:22.876
there was a whole bunch
of them that went under.

1338
01:04:27.792 --> 01:04:29.542
<i>And during that period,</i>

1339
01:04:29.626 --> 01:04:32.792
we turned TWA around,
for a couple of years.

1340
01:04:36.584 --> 01:04:39.209
announcer:
<i>The U.S. is a bargain</i>

1341
01:04:39.292 --> 01:04:40.709
<i>if you know where to shop.</i>

1342
01:04:40.792 --> 01:04:43.834
<i>And the best place
is today's TWA.</i>

1343
01:04:43.918 --> 01:04:46.125
<i>We've got low air fares
to terrific cities...</i>

1344
01:04:46.209 --> 01:04:48.834
We brought innovation
with a business saver fare.

1345
01:04:48.918 --> 01:04:50.876
announcer:
<i>Bargains on the ground, too,</i>

1346
01:04:50.959 --> 01:04:52.167
<i>like our travel value pack.</i>

1347
01:04:52.250 --> 01:04:54.584
Carl:<i> We created</i>
<i>the flight attendants school.</i>

1348
01:04:54.667 --> 01:04:56.250
<i>♪ You're gonna like us ♪</i>

1349
01:04:56.334 --> 01:04:58.125
<i>♪ TWA ♪</i>

1350
01:04:58.209 --> 01:05:02.500
I made mistakes with it,
though, I mean, I made
a lot of mistakes with it.

1351
01:05:02.584 --> 01:05:05.375
<i>And then it, then it got
from bad to worse.</i>

1352
01:05:05.459 --> 01:05:08.584
(ominous music playing)

1353
01:05:11.500 --> 01:05:15.792
<i>♪ Happy birthday,
Dear Carl ♪</i>

1354
01:05:15.876 --> 01:05:20.459
<i>♪ Happy birthday to you... ♪</i>

1355
01:05:20.542 --> 01:05:22.083
The problems were endemic.

1356
01:05:22.167 --> 01:05:24.459
People weren't traveling
to Europe for a while,

1357
01:05:24.542 --> 01:05:26.292
you had that Desert Storm
that came.

1358
01:05:29.375 --> 01:05:31.042
<i>There were a lot of
other things, too,</i>

1359
01:05:31.125 --> 01:05:32.834
<i>with the terrorism.</i>

1360
01:05:33.918 --> 01:05:35.500
He was perplexed.

1361
01:05:35.584 --> 01:05:37.417
"Why can't I figure this out?"

1362
01:05:40.250 --> 01:05:43.626
He's always had a magic wand.
Didn't work here.

1363
01:05:45.083 --> 01:05:48.417
Carl eventually
took the company private,

1364
01:05:48.500 --> 01:05:50.584
but it was loaded with debt.

1365
01:05:53.876 --> 01:05:56.375
And TWA ended up
filing for bankruptcy.

1366
01:06:03.334 --> 01:06:06.250
I really believe that, you know,
you look at the results,

1367
01:06:06.334 --> 01:06:09.876
and if it doesn't work,
you blame yourself, I guess.

1368
01:06:12.959 --> 01:06:15.334
(upbeat music playing)

1369
01:06:15.417 --> 01:06:18.334
<i>I'm taking you back
to where I grew up.</i>

1370
01:06:18.417 --> 01:06:20.375
<i>You've always asked me
as a little girl,</i>

1371
01:06:20.459 --> 01:06:22.751
<i>and I'm gonna show you,
before I moved to Florida.</i>

1372
01:06:22.834 --> 01:06:24.709
-So little...
-I've heard so many stories.

1373
01:06:24.792 --> 01:06:26.959
So little,
but I grew up there.

1374
01:06:27.042 --> 01:06:28.500
♪ ♪

1375
01:06:28.584 --> 01:06:31.500
I think it wasn't...
it wasn't until I was older

1376
01:06:31.584 --> 01:06:34.250
that I really, I think,
got a better understanding

1377
01:06:34.334 --> 01:06:36.375
of where my father grew up

1378
01:06:36.459 --> 01:06:39.667
and the different challenges
that he probably was facing

1379
01:06:39.751 --> 01:06:42.125
that were maybe responsible

1380
01:06:42.209 --> 01:06:45.584
for making him so tenacious.

1381
01:06:45.667 --> 01:06:46.959
♪ ♪

1382
01:06:47.042 --> 01:06:49.250
Carl:<i> My parents, they only</i>
<i>made around 5,000 a year,</i>

1383
01:06:49.334 --> 01:06:50.751
<i>but that's all
they would talk about.</i>

1384
01:06:50.834 --> 01:06:52.626
<i>Maybe that's why I was
so interested in money.</i>

1385
01:06:52.709 --> 01:06:55.209
They hated the rich people,
but they were so into it.

1386
01:06:57.751 --> 01:07:00.751
-Okay, we're here.
-(engine stops)

1387
01:07:02.500 --> 01:07:05.250
Carl:
You're coming up to my house.

1388
01:07:05.334 --> 01:07:07.542
Michelle: I remember it
from photos, but this is...

1389
01:07:07.626 --> 01:07:10.334
-Carl: Yeah, I remember it well.
-...it's so cool seeing it.

1390
01:07:10.959 --> 01:07:12.292
Carl:
Yep.

1391
01:07:12.375 --> 01:07:13.709
Oh, Mr. Icahn, how are you?

1392
01:07:13.792 --> 01:07:15.042
-Carl: Okay.
-Moishe Russell.

1393
01:07:15.125 --> 01:07:17.876
Good to meet you, and thanks
very much for having us.

1394
01:07:21.959 --> 01:07:24.000
(laughs) Jeez.

1395
01:07:24.083 --> 01:07:26.209
Brings back memories,
that's for sure.

1396
01:07:27.751 --> 01:07:30.042
My father had
all this musical stuff,

1397
01:07:30.125 --> 01:07:31.542
because he loved to sing.

1398
01:07:31.626 --> 01:07:34.292
And he had
a Presto record recording.

1399
01:07:34.375 --> 01:07:35.959
Your mom had
a wall right here.

1400
01:07:36.042 --> 01:07:38.167
No, they took the wall out.
This was the dining room.

1401
01:07:38.250 --> 01:07:41.542
They kept telling her,
the house would fall down
if you took the thing down.

1402
01:07:41.626 --> 01:07:43.292
But she found a builder
that said, "Bullshit,

1403
01:07:43.375 --> 01:07:45.292
I'll put a beam up there,
the house is fine."

1404
01:07:45.375 --> 01:07:48.209
'Cause she was
tenacious, my mother.
Boy, she was tough.

1405
01:07:48.292 --> 01:07:50.834
♪ ♪

1406
01:07:50.918 --> 01:07:53.626
<i>But you know, when you
needed her, she was there,
I'll say that.</i>

1407
01:07:53.709 --> 01:07:56.125
<i>You know, like
sometimes if I feel down
or have problems,</i>

1408
01:07:56.209 --> 01:07:58.918
<i>she was always
a real good problem solver.</i>

1409
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:01.334
But... egomaniac.

1410
01:08:01.417 --> 01:08:03.250
She was a complete egomaniac.

1411
01:08:03.334 --> 01:08:05.292
I mean, everything she did
was right, you know.

1412
01:08:05.375 --> 01:08:08.459
She, she had the answer
to, to everything,

1413
01:08:08.542 --> 01:08:11.000
and she was really...
you know.

1414
01:08:11.083 --> 01:08:12.459
But people liked her.

1415
01:08:12.542 --> 01:08:15.250
She was funny, you know,
she had a good sense of humor,

1416
01:08:15.334 --> 01:08:17.375
except with me.

1417
01:08:17.459 --> 01:08:21.167
<i>I had to be perfect to her
because I was her kid.</i>

1418
01:08:21.250 --> 01:08:23.667
<i>So anything she did
was perfect, right?</i>

1419
01:08:23.751 --> 01:08:25.584
So, I was supposed to be
perfect.

1420
01:08:25.667 --> 01:08:27.709
♪ ♪

1421
01:08:27.792 --> 01:08:31.042
<i>She was so strong-willed
and I was strong-willed,</i>

1422
01:08:31.125 --> 01:08:35.459
<i>so... we always had
a stormy relationship.</i>

1423
01:08:37.959 --> 01:08:41.834
(man singing in Hebrew
on phonograph)

1424
01:08:48.626 --> 01:08:51.626
Ah, look at this. Wow.

1425
01:08:51.709 --> 01:08:53.709
Michelle:
Where are we right now?

1426
01:08:53.792 --> 01:08:55.751
Temple Beth El.

1427
01:08:57.709 --> 01:08:59.459
I was bar-mitzvahed here.

1428
01:08:59.542 --> 01:09:00.876
Oh, yeah.

1429
01:09:04.125 --> 01:09:07.375
(song ends triumphantly)

1430
01:09:07.459 --> 01:09:09.000
Michelle:
It's beautiful.

1431
01:09:09.083 --> 01:09:11.959
Carl: My father used to sing
here and he was the cantor,

1432
01:09:12.042 --> 01:09:13.500
and I was bar-mitzvahed here.

1433
01:09:13.584 --> 01:09:16.375
-Wow.
-But he wasn't religious at all.

1434
01:09:16.459 --> 01:09:18.584
They would sit here,
the trustee, maybe,

1435
01:09:18.667 --> 01:09:21.959
and my father would sing,
I don't know which one,
maybe over there.

1436
01:09:22.042 --> 01:09:23.584
Yeah.

1437
01:09:25.292 --> 01:09:29.500
I haven't been back, I think,
for close to 70 years.

1438
01:09:31.792 --> 01:09:34.626
Bruce: You feel the ghost
of your father in here?

1439
01:09:35.417 --> 01:09:37.375
Nah. Nah.

1440
01:09:38.709 --> 01:09:41.125
<i>My father was
a very strange guy.</i>

1441
01:09:41.209 --> 01:09:43.918
<i>Even though he was
the cantor at the temple,</i>

1442
01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:47.792
<i>he was a dyed-in-the-wool
dogmatic atheist.</i>

1443
01:09:49.042 --> 01:09:51.584
<i>And he was, in my opinion,
a communist.</i>

1444
01:09:51.667 --> 01:09:55.417
My father was also
the Irish tenor on Sundays.

1445
01:09:55.500 --> 01:09:57.209
-And so...
-(Michelle laughs)

1446
01:09:57.292 --> 01:09:59.250
He was. He just had
a great voice, you know.

1447
01:09:59.334 --> 01:10:02.584
It was, Michael O'Cahn
was coming and he would
sing "Danny Boy,"

1448
01:10:02.667 --> 01:10:06.876
and he just wanted to sing,
you know?

1449
01:10:06.959 --> 01:10:09.083
<i>I never inherited
his love for real music.</i>

1450
01:10:09.167 --> 01:10:10.584
<i>I mean,
I never had any talent.</i>

1451
01:10:10.667 --> 01:10:12.709
<i>He's the guy that said to me,</i>

1452
01:10:12.792 --> 01:10:15.292
<i>"Your mother has
great talent in art.</i>

1453
01:10:15.375 --> 01:10:18.542
"I have a great voice.
We're both talented people.

1454
01:10:18.626 --> 01:10:22.125
"Now you, on the other hand,
have absolutely no talent.

1455
01:10:22.209 --> 01:10:23.459
"Go be a doctor.

1456
01:10:23.542 --> 01:10:25.709
The doctors,
look what they charge you."

1457
01:10:25.792 --> 01:10:29.334
<i>He had no filter
for what he said.</i>

1458
01:10:30.542 --> 01:10:32.792
<i>My father was
an interesting character</i>

1459
01:10:32.876 --> 01:10:34.792
'cause he didn't,
he didn't really give a damn

1460
01:10:34.876 --> 01:10:36.375
pretty much about...

1461
01:10:36.459 --> 01:10:38.334
Well, he did,
he got outraged at people.

1462
01:10:38.417 --> 01:10:41.542
He really, I think I got
this sense of outrage from him.

1463
01:10:41.626 --> 01:10:42.918
Michelle:
Yeah.

1464
01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:44.709
Carl:
<i>I was never close to him.</i>

1465
01:10:44.792 --> 01:10:47.792
I never respected him
or admired him.

1466
01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:51.500
<i>My father, he never
asked me what I did.</i>

1467
01:10:51.584 --> 01:10:54.792
Even when I went on Wall Street
and I was making the money,

1468
01:10:54.876 --> 01:10:57.083
he never tried
to have me explain it.

1469
01:10:57.167 --> 01:11:00.000
He never asked,
he never got into it.

1470
01:11:00.083 --> 01:11:02.542
And finally, in Florida,

1471
01:11:02.626 --> 01:11:05.500
I went down there once
and he had a pad and pencil.

1472
01:11:05.584 --> 01:11:08.500
"Come here, come here.
Explain to me what you do."

1473
01:11:08.584 --> 01:11:10.459
And I said,
"You finally admit it."

1474
01:11:13.667 --> 01:11:15.626
And then we hugged.

1475
01:11:15.709 --> 01:11:17.834
I still, I still cry about that.

1476
01:11:20.209 --> 01:11:21.375
Bruce:
Why do you cry?

1477
01:11:21.459 --> 01:11:23.542
I don't know.

1478
01:11:23.626 --> 01:11:25.709
I don't know.

1479
01:11:25.792 --> 01:11:28.167
I don't know why I do.

1480
01:11:29.125 --> 01:11:30.334
I felt...

1481
01:11:32.417 --> 01:11:33.584
a certain warmth.

1482
01:11:33.667 --> 01:11:34.959
A certain warmth.

1483
01:11:35.042 --> 01:11:37.876
That was, that was my father.

1484
01:11:40.459 --> 01:11:42.584
They, they say,
"Thou shall not kill,"

1485
01:11:42.667 --> 01:11:46.751
and later on you go,
"An eye for an eye,
a tooth for a tooth," right?

1486
01:11:46.834 --> 01:11:49.334
So they're all
sort of contradictory.

1487
01:11:49.417 --> 01:11:51.375
(both laugh softly)

1488
01:11:58.500 --> 01:12:02.167
reporter 1:
<i>Some say Carl Icahn was</i>
<i>20 years ahead of his time,</i>

1489
01:12:02.250 --> 01:12:04.042
<i>battling the corporate world</i>

1490
01:12:04.125 --> 01:12:06.375
<i>in the name
of shareholder value.</i>

1491
01:12:06.459 --> 01:12:08.000
Aw, come on!

1492
01:12:08.083 --> 01:12:10.459
reporter 2:
<i>When TWA filed for bankruptcy,</i>

1493
01:12:10.542 --> 01:12:14.083
<i>it hurt his reputation,
but he pressed on,</i>

1494
01:12:14.167 --> 01:12:17.751
<i>returning to the scene
with years of proxy fights,</i>

1495
01:12:17.834 --> 01:12:20.125
<i>all the while demonstrating
his knack</i>

1496
01:12:20.209 --> 01:12:22.000
<i>for corporate combat.</i>

1497
01:12:23.334 --> 01:12:25.417
(percussive music playing)

1498
01:12:31.209 --> 01:12:34.042
(trance music playing)

1499
01:12:39.125 --> 01:12:41.209
Herbalife is
a global nutrition company

1500
01:12:41.292 --> 01:12:42.834
that sells our products
exclusively

1501
01:12:42.918 --> 01:12:45.459
through a network of people
just like you.

1502
01:12:47.292 --> 01:12:50.042
Herbalife is a nutrition company
based in California

1503
01:12:50.125 --> 01:12:53.626
that Carl Icahn probably
had never heard of.

1504
01:12:53.709 --> 01:12:55.292
I mean, nothing.

1505
01:12:55.375 --> 01:12:57.417
Until Bill Ackman showed up.

1506
01:13:00.834 --> 01:13:02.876
Throughout my career,
the vast majority,

1507
01:13:02.959 --> 01:13:04.959
particularly our most
successful investments,

1508
01:13:05.042 --> 01:13:07.584
have been ones that have been
controversial in one way
or another.

1509
01:13:07.667 --> 01:13:11.459
Bill Ackman is another one
of the major activist
investors out there.

1510
01:13:11.542 --> 01:13:12.959
He's a fellow billionaire.

1511
01:13:13.042 --> 01:13:15.542
One of these masters
of the universe in New York.

1512
01:13:15.626 --> 01:13:19.000
<i>Harvard educated
versus Carl's Princeton.</i>

1513
01:13:19.083 --> 01:13:23.000
reporter:
<i>Although unlike Carl,</i>
<i>he was born into privilege.</i>

1514
01:13:23.083 --> 01:13:27.459
He also likes to publicly
spar with companies
the way Icahn does,

1515
01:13:27.542 --> 01:13:29.876
but he goes about it
in a slightly different manner.

1516
01:13:29.959 --> 01:13:31.959
<i>And please welcome
Bill Ackman.</i>

1517
01:13:32.042 --> 01:13:36.250
(crowd applauding)

1518
01:13:36.334 --> 01:13:38.167
<i>Okay, so we've got
a lot to cover today,</i>

1519
01:13:38.250 --> 01:13:39.918
<i>so we're going to move
pretty quickly.</i>

1520
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:41.626
<i>Why don't we start...</i>

1521
01:13:41.709 --> 01:13:43.834
Sorkin:
<i>So Bill Ackman decides</i>

1522
01:13:43.918 --> 01:13:47.375
that Herbalife effectively
is a fraud, it's a scam.

1523
01:13:47.459 --> 01:13:50.667
<i>Herbalife is a pyramid scheme.</i>

1524
01:13:50.751 --> 01:13:52.125
<i>It's caused enormous harm</i>

1525
01:13:52.209 --> 01:13:54.500
<i>to millions around the world.</i>

1526
01:13:56.417 --> 01:13:57.792
<i>Our goal is for the facts</i>

1527
01:13:57.876 --> 01:14:00.000
<i>about Herbalife
to be made public.</i>

1528
01:14:00.083 --> 01:14:03.542
And he believes that
if he's able to expose

1529
01:14:03.626 --> 01:14:06.459
what he believes are the
company's frauds to the public,

1530
01:14:06.542 --> 01:14:08.918
that regulators
are gonna jump in

1531
01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:10.709
and the stock is gonna tank.

1532
01:14:10.792 --> 01:14:12.459
<i>I don't want to make
any money from this, okay?</i>

1533
01:14:12.542 --> 01:14:14.709
<i>I view this as blood money,
but let me be clear.</i>

1534
01:14:14.792 --> 01:14:16.292
<i>We'll short the stock.</i>

1535
01:14:16.375 --> 01:14:18.250
<i>Herbalife stock goes down,
we make money.</i>

1536
01:14:18.334 --> 01:14:20.167
<i>Herbalife stock goes up,
we lose money.</i>

1537
01:14:28.584 --> 01:14:29.918
He's gonna short the company,

1538
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.000
so he's gonna bet that
the stock is gonna fall

1539
01:14:32.083 --> 01:14:35.167
all the way to zero.

1540
01:14:35.250 --> 01:14:38.709
Ackman:<i> A pyramid scheme is</i>
<i>actually a modern-day version</i>
<i>of a Ponzi scheme.</i>

1541
01:14:38.792 --> 01:14:42.751
Carl, meanwhile,
is watching this all play out.

1542
01:14:42.834 --> 01:14:45.292
Ackman:
<i>...the version is called 3.0.</i>

1543
01:14:45.375 --> 01:14:47.792
<i>It's 1.0 is the Ponzi scheme.</i>

1544
01:14:47.876 --> 01:14:50.584
And he's thinking to himself
that Bill is gonna lose,

1545
01:14:50.667 --> 01:14:53.626
that he's never gonna
get the stock to go
even further down

1546
01:14:53.709 --> 01:14:55.751
and effectively bets
against him.

1547
01:14:55.834 --> 01:15:00.500
(discordant music plays)

1548
01:15:00.584 --> 01:15:02.000
Carl:
<i>Ackman is a real,</i>

1549
01:15:02.083 --> 01:15:04.125
<i>I think, a smart guy
and a good investor.</i>

1550
01:15:04.209 --> 01:15:06.667
He might have talked himself
into believing

1551
01:15:06.751 --> 01:15:09.167
that he was going to be
a savior,

1552
01:15:09.250 --> 01:15:11.626
but I felt that Ackman
had an agenda.

1553
01:15:11.709 --> 01:15:14.459
♪ ♪

1554
01:15:14.542 --> 01:15:19.042
Icahn and Ackman
had done a deal together
some years earlier

1555
01:15:19.125 --> 01:15:24.209
where the contract
was somewhat ambiguous.

1556
01:15:24.292 --> 01:15:29.334
And the court eventually said
that Icahn had to pay.

1557
01:15:29.417 --> 01:15:31.167
After Carl paid Bill,

1558
01:15:31.250 --> 01:15:33.667
the unwritten rule
on Wall Street,

1559
01:15:33.751 --> 01:15:36.417
"Don't gloat
about your victories."

1560
01:15:36.500 --> 01:15:39.209
Bill went to the newspaper
and he gloated about the victory

1561
01:15:39.292 --> 01:15:42.542
and that pissed Icahn off
like you don't know.

1562
01:15:42.626 --> 01:15:45.125
I think Herbalife was personal.

1563
01:15:45.209 --> 01:15:47.959
Carl:<i> Ackman's whole thesis</i>
<i>is completely wrong.</i>

1564
01:15:48.042 --> 01:15:50.250
<i>I mean, I can't even
understand his argument.</i>

1565
01:15:50.334 --> 01:15:53.667
I was walking through
the CNBC newsroom,

1566
01:15:53.751 --> 01:15:57.918
and I saw Carl on TV
on another network

1567
01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:00.292
absolutely annihilating Ackman.

1568
01:16:00.375 --> 01:16:02.918
Carl:<i> He may believe what</i>
<i>he's saying, I don't know.</i>

1569
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:04.751
<i>Herbalife gives jobs to people.</i>

1570
01:16:04.834 --> 01:16:07.209
<i>I mean, it's absurd
what Ackman is saying.</i>

1571
01:16:07.292 --> 01:16:11.042
And I stopped in my tracks
and I said,

1572
01:16:11.125 --> 01:16:12.584
"This is unbelievable."

1573
01:16:12.667 --> 01:16:15.918
And I was kind of mad that
it was happening somewhere else.

1574
01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:18.083
But I went and I called Bill.

1575
01:16:18.167 --> 01:16:21.751
And I said, "Do you want
to respond to this?"

1576
01:16:21.834 --> 01:16:23.250
And he's like, "You know what?

1577
01:16:23.334 --> 01:16:24.626
"Carl's an asshole.

1578
01:16:24.709 --> 01:16:26.500
"I'm sick and tired
of this bullshit.

1579
01:16:26.584 --> 01:16:28.292
"He tried to take
advantage of me.

1580
01:16:28.375 --> 01:16:31.500
I'll come on, I'll do it"
So I said, "Great."

1581
01:16:31.584 --> 01:16:33.667
(intense music playing)

1582
01:16:33.751 --> 01:16:35.751
Ackman:<i> Carl has been</i>
<i>maligning my reputation,</i>

1583
01:16:35.834 --> 01:16:37.834
<i>so it's very important
that we get to the facts.</i>

1584
01:16:37.918 --> 01:16:40.876
Ackman comes on,
we're talking about Herbalife.

1585
01:16:40.959 --> 01:16:43.667
Ackman:<i> Carl, he can try</i>
<i>to scare my investors</i>
<i>from investing with me,</i>

1586
01:16:43.751 --> 01:16:45.459
<i>which it sounds like
he's attempting.</i>

1587
01:16:45.542 --> 01:16:48.834
And then Carl calls in
to the control room.

1588
01:16:48.918 --> 01:16:51.125
I look down at my computer
and there's a tweet

1589
01:16:51.209 --> 01:16:53.918
from a CNBC
colleague of mine,

1590
01:16:54.000 --> 01:16:56.334
and it says,
"This is gonna be good."

1591
01:16:56.417 --> 01:16:58.792
-(dramatic flourish plays)
-All right, welcome back

1592
01:16:58.876 --> 01:17:01.626
to the "Halftime Report,"
live today from
the New York Stock Exchange.

1593
01:17:01.709 --> 01:17:04.459
We've been speaking with
hedge fund investor Bill Ackman.

1594
01:17:04.542 --> 01:17:07.083
Now it's time to hear
what Carl Icahn thinks
of our conversation.

1595
01:17:07.167 --> 01:17:09.792
He joins us live on the phone.
Carl, are you there,
Bill, there?

1596
01:17:09.876 --> 01:17:12.375
-Carl:<i> Okay,</i>
<i>good to talk to you.</i>
-Ackman:<i> I am here as well.</i>

1597
01:17:12.459 --> 01:17:14.375
Wapner: You know, Carl,
you have an issue with the way

1598
01:17:14.459 --> 01:17:17.209
that Bill went about
the Herbalife short

1599
01:17:17.292 --> 01:17:19.792
as aggressive and as
publicly as he did,

1600
01:17:19.876 --> 01:17:22.667
and he's essentially saying
that you're a hypocrite.

1601
01:17:22.751 --> 01:17:23.876
How do you respond?

1602
01:17:23.959 --> 01:17:26.167
Carl:<i> Let's start</i>
<i>with what I want to say.</i>

1603
01:17:26.250 --> 01:17:28.626
<i>I've really sort of had it
with this guy Ackman,</i>

1604
01:17:28.709 --> 01:17:32.834
<i>'cause Herbalife is a classic
example of what he does.</i>

1605
01:17:32.918 --> 01:17:34.459
<i>You scare the hell
out of people,</i>

1606
01:17:34.542 --> 01:17:35.834
<i>get the stock down</i>

1607
01:17:35.918 --> 01:17:38.292
<i>and make 600 million bucks
on paper</i>

1608
01:17:38.375 --> 01:17:40.250
<i>and tells the world
how great he is.</i>

1609
01:17:40.334 --> 01:17:41.626
<i>I had dinner with him.</i>

1610
01:17:41.709 --> 01:17:43.292
<i>I couldn't figure out
if he was</i>

1611
01:17:43.375 --> 01:17:45.584
<i>the most sanctimonious guy
I ever met in my life</i>

1612
01:17:45.667 --> 01:17:47.334
<i>or the most arrogant.</i>

1613
01:17:47.417 --> 01:17:49.751
And I'd like to give Bill
a chance to respond
to you as well.

1614
01:17:49.834 --> 01:17:52.500
Ackman:
<i>Carl has been-- is gonna try</i>
<i>to attack my integrity.</i>

1615
01:17:52.584 --> 01:17:55.167
<i>And Herbalife,
we're not scaring people</i>

1616
01:17:55.250 --> 01:17:56.959
<i>but going through the facts
about the company--</i>

1617
01:17:57.042 --> 01:17:58.834
Carl:
<i>If that wasn't scaring people,</i>
<i>you could have fooled me.</i>

1618
01:17:58.918 --> 01:18:00.334
Ackman:
<i>And we will either</i>
<i>be proven right,</i>

1619
01:18:00.417 --> 01:18:01.751
<i>or we'll be proven wrong.</i>

1620
01:18:01.834 --> 01:18:03.751
There had never been
quite a showdown

1621
01:18:03.834 --> 01:18:05.417
between two people
of such high stature

1622
01:18:05.500 --> 01:18:08.083
as Carl Icahn and Bill Ackman
on live TV.

1623
01:18:08.167 --> 01:18:10.918
Carl:
<i>Then he talks about charity,</i>
<i>that's complete (bleep).</i>

1624
01:18:11.000 --> 01:18:12.751
<i>He's not giving it to charity,</i>

1625
01:18:12.834 --> 01:18:15.042
<i>assuming they don't need
charity themselves.</i>

1626
01:18:15.125 --> 01:18:17.250
-Let me do this, I mean...
Carl.

1627
01:18:17.334 --> 01:18:19.542
Carl:<i> Now, that's what</i>
<i>I'll say about Ackman, okay?</i>

1628
01:18:19.626 --> 01:18:21.751
Let me remind you that
we are on live television.

1629
01:18:21.834 --> 01:18:24.334
We're doing the show that day
at the stock exchange,

1630
01:18:24.417 --> 01:18:25.918
and it's on a delay.

1631
01:18:26.000 --> 01:18:30.042
So each time Carl would say
something nasty about Bill,

1632
01:18:30.125 --> 01:18:33.083
two seconds later
you would hear all the traders
on the trading floor...

1633
01:18:33.167 --> 01:18:35.626
Carl:
<i>He's the quintessential</i>
<i>example on Wall Street,</i>

1634
01:18:35.709 --> 01:18:37.500
<i>if you want a friend,
get a dog.</i>

1635
01:18:37.584 --> 01:18:40.417
-traders: Ohh!
-Carl:<i> And he does</i>
<i>a pump-and-dump...</i>

1636
01:18:40.500 --> 01:18:41.876
Wapner: Uh, the guys
on the trading floor

1637
01:18:41.959 --> 01:18:43.459
down here at
the New York stock exchange...

1638
01:18:43.542 --> 01:18:47.042
Same thing when Bill would,
you know, insult Carl,

1639
01:18:47.125 --> 01:18:48.918
the floor would erupt.

1640
01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:51.459
Ackman:<i> This is not</i>
<i>an honest guy.</i>
<i>He's a bully, okay?</i>

1641
01:18:51.542 --> 01:18:53.834
<i>Says he doesn't like
behaviors that are bad...</i>

1642
01:18:53.918 --> 01:18:59.042
It quickly devolved
into a battle, a war.

1643
01:18:59.125 --> 01:19:02.042
-Carl:<i> Ackman is a liar, okay?</i>
-(traders clamoring)

1644
01:19:02.125 --> 01:19:06.083
<i>He's got one of the worst
reputations on Wall Street.
The guy is a major loser.</i>

1645
01:19:06.167 --> 01:19:09.417
Ackman:<i> The big issue about</i>
<i>Carl Icahn is he's not used</i>
<i>to someone standing up to him.</i>

1646
01:19:09.500 --> 01:19:12.375
<i>Carl, you wanna bid
for the company, go ahead
and bid for the company.</i>

1647
01:19:12.459 --> 01:19:14.751
Carl:<i> Hey, you don't have</i>
<i>to tell me what I'm free to do.</i>

1648
01:19:14.834 --> 01:19:17.500
I'm reporting from Davos,
Switzerland,

1649
01:19:17.584 --> 01:19:20.000
<i>at the World Economic Forum,</i>

1650
01:19:20.083 --> 01:19:23.667
<i>where all the CEOs
from around the globe come.</i>

1651
01:19:23.751 --> 01:19:26.042
And I remember being
at a cocktail party,

1652
01:19:26.125 --> 01:19:31.334
trying to get Wi-Fi on my phone
so I could watch it,

1653
01:19:31.417 --> 01:19:35.334
and literally a swarm of CEOs

1654
01:19:35.417 --> 01:19:37.459
standing around,
we were all watching...

1655
01:19:37.542 --> 01:19:40.792
Carl:<i> I appreciate, Bill,</i>
<i>that you called me</i>
<i>a great investor.</i>

1656
01:19:40.876 --> 01:19:43.250
<i>Unfortunately I can't
say the same for you.</i>

1657
01:19:43.334 --> 01:19:45.792
It was like must-see TV.

1658
01:19:45.876 --> 01:19:48.751
Ackman:<i> Simply said to him,</i>
<i>I said, "Look, Carl,</i>
<i>you are no friend of mine."</i>

1659
01:19:48.834 --> 01:19:50.459
You couldn't take
your eyes off of the thing.

1660
01:19:50.542 --> 01:19:52.459
Ackman:<i> Do you think</i>
<i>I wanna invest with you?</i>

1661
01:19:52.542 --> 01:19:55.709
Carl:<i> I wouldn't invest</i>
<i>with you if you were</i>
<i>the last man on Earth.</i>

1662
01:19:55.792 --> 01:19:58.709
Volume of trading
at the New York Stock Exchange

1663
01:19:58.792 --> 01:20:00.375
went down 20%,

1664
01:20:00.459 --> 01:20:04.042
as everybody was just sort of
standing there watching TV.

1665
01:20:04.125 --> 01:20:06.459
Carl:<i> I'm telling you,</i>
<i>he's like the crybaby</i>
<i>in the schoolyard.</i>

1666
01:20:06.542 --> 01:20:08.417
<i>You know, I went to
a tough school in Queens</i>

1667
01:20:08.500 --> 01:20:11.334
<i>and they used to beat up
the little Jewish boys</i>

1668
01:20:11.417 --> 01:20:13.417
<i>and he was like one
of these little Jewish boys,</i>

1669
01:20:13.500 --> 01:20:16.000
<i>crying that the world
was taking advantage of him.</i>

1670
01:20:16.083 --> 01:20:18.834
Wapner:
Let me, guys, we're gonna...
we're gonna end it there.

1671
01:20:18.918 --> 01:20:22.250
Bill Ackman, Carl Icahn,
we'll go to break.

1672
01:20:22.334 --> 01:20:24.834
Herbalife played out
for a number of years,

1673
01:20:24.918 --> 01:20:27.792
but it was really a foregone
conclusion from that moment,

1674
01:20:27.876 --> 01:20:30.209
because once Carl emerged,

1675
01:20:30.292 --> 01:20:31.834
Bill didn't really have
a chance.

1676
01:20:31.918 --> 01:20:33.918
Just as the markets are falling,

1677
01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:36.751
Herbalife is hitting
an all-time high today.

1678
01:20:36.834 --> 01:20:38.918
Carl wasn't going
to go anywhere.

1679
01:20:39.042 --> 01:20:41.542
And Wall Street
was betting with Carl.

1680
01:20:41.626 --> 01:20:43.709
(trance music playing)

1681
01:20:46.459 --> 01:20:48.751
Herbalife is officially

1682
01:20:48.834 --> 01:20:51.751
the worst investment ever made
by Pershing Square.

1683
01:20:56.459 --> 01:21:00.417
Bill lost the majority of
his investment in Herbalife.

1684
01:21:00.500 --> 01:21:02.167
It was a billion-dollar short.

1685
01:21:02.250 --> 01:21:04.542
And eventually Bill
just threw in the towel,

1686
01:21:04.626 --> 01:21:08.250
and Icahn, he won.

1687
01:21:11.626 --> 01:21:12.792
It obviously felt good.

1688
01:21:12.876 --> 01:21:14.459
It felt good that I beat him.

1689
01:21:14.542 --> 01:21:19.083
We did have a vendetta, and I
felt he had screwed me once,

1690
01:21:19.167 --> 01:21:21.125
so it felt good to do it.

1691
01:21:21.209 --> 01:21:24.375
<i>But I certainly have no grudge,</i>

1692
01:21:24.459 --> 01:21:26.834
and at the end
of this whole thing,

1693
01:21:26.918 --> 01:21:30.834
he called me up and
congratulated me on the victory.

1694
01:21:30.918 --> 01:21:34.167
And I think it was
a classy thing to do.

1695
01:21:34.250 --> 01:21:37.834
But the winning, that's not
the motivation for me.

1696
01:21:37.918 --> 01:21:40.792
The motivation is just,
find the good one.

1697
01:21:40.876 --> 01:21:43.125
<i>Find something you know
is gonna be good,</i>

1698
01:21:43.209 --> 01:21:46.459
<i>and the odds
are greatly in your favor.</i>

1699
01:21:46.542 --> 01:21:48.709
<i>Winning, it's almost...</i>

1700
01:21:49.667 --> 01:21:52.417
a bit of a letdown, actually.

1701
01:21:52.500 --> 01:21:56.334
<i>You know, you did it all.
Now it worked.</i>

1702
01:21:56.417 --> 01:21:58.209
<i>On to the next one.</i>

1703
01:21:59.667 --> 01:22:02.751
Pretty good. I made a good one.
Fairly good. Fairly good.

1704
01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:06.125
(percussive music playing)

1705
01:22:12.584 --> 01:22:15.167
Sorkin:<i> Carl wasn't typically</i>
<i>interested in tech companies</i>

1706
01:22:15.250 --> 01:22:18.834
<i>'cause they weren't
his kind of companies.</i>

1707
01:22:18.918 --> 01:22:21.250
analyst:<i> Why is Carl Icahn,</i>
<i>first of all, investing</i>

1708
01:22:21.334 --> 01:22:23.209
<i>in a private tech company?</i>

1709
01:22:23.292 --> 01:22:25.959
Wapner:<i> How did he end up</i>
<i>in the tech game?</i>

1710
01:22:26.042 --> 01:22:29.083
♪ ♪

1711
01:22:32.459 --> 01:22:35.584
Brett Icahn:<i> I started working</i>
<i>for my father as an analyst</i>

1712
01:22:35.667 --> 01:22:37.792
<i>back in 2002.</i>

1713
01:22:37.876 --> 01:22:39.709
There were several
of us at the time.

1714
01:22:39.792 --> 01:22:41.542
I was definitely
the youngest of the group.

1715
01:22:41.626 --> 01:22:44.375
I sort of had
a privileged "in,"

1716
01:22:44.459 --> 01:22:46.709
you could, you could say.

1717
01:22:46.792 --> 01:22:49.042
<i>But I had, you know,
I had learned quite a bit</i>

1718
01:22:49.125 --> 01:22:50.667
<i>about accounting</i>

1719
01:22:50.751 --> 01:22:52.375
<i>and I took economics
in school,</i>

1720
01:22:52.459 --> 01:22:55.709
<i>so it's not like I was
completely a fish out of water.</i>

1721
01:22:55.792 --> 01:22:57.500
Carl:
<i>I'll say this about Brett,</i>

1722
01:22:57.584 --> 01:23:01.209
he's much more low-key
than I am.

1723
01:23:01.292 --> 01:23:04.292
But he's one of the most
obsessive characters,

1724
01:23:04.375 --> 01:23:06.417
and he'll work very hard
at something,

1725
01:23:06.500 --> 01:23:07.792
extremely hard,

1726
01:23:07.876 --> 01:23:10.542
especially if it means
beating me at something.

1727
01:23:10.626 --> 01:23:12.334
♪ ♪

1728
01:23:12.417 --> 01:23:14.834
Cara Lombardo:
<i>He's not quite</i>
<i>as pushy as Carl.</i>

1729
01:23:14.918 --> 01:23:17.876
He's more analytical.

1730
01:23:17.959 --> 01:23:21.042
<i>He is definitely
more risk averse.</i>

1731
01:23:21.125 --> 01:23:23.334
<i>But they have
a lot of similarities too.</i>

1732
01:23:23.417 --> 01:23:25.292
<i>They both love history.</i>

1733
01:23:25.375 --> 01:23:28.000
<i>They're war buffs.</i>

1734
01:23:28.083 --> 01:23:31.417
<i>For a while, they played
a Sunday night game of chess</i>

1735
01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:32.876
<i>every week.</i>

1736
01:23:32.959 --> 01:23:34.876
But they had to stop that
because Brett,

1737
01:23:34.959 --> 01:23:38.375
he got too good
and kept winning.

1738
01:23:38.459 --> 01:23:41.459
Foroohar:<i> Carl, I think,</i>
<i>is very proud of Brett.</i>

1739
01:23:41.542 --> 01:23:44.125
He wanted to praise Brett
to me on a couple of occasions,

1740
01:23:44.209 --> 01:23:45.918
but he would sort of
pull himself back

1741
01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:50.000
because he didn't want
to make it too easy for him.

1742
01:23:50.083 --> 01:23:51.709
Carl:
<i>So he worked for me ten years.</i>

1743
01:23:51.792 --> 01:23:53.751
Another guy in the firm,
a very smart guy,

1744
01:23:53.834 --> 01:23:56.375
named David Schecter,
they came to me, said, "Look,

1745
01:23:56.459 --> 01:23:59.626
<i>we're not gonna stay here
unless we get some money
to manage."</i>

1746
01:23:59.709 --> 01:24:01.709
You know, "We're not gonna
just do research."

1747
01:24:01.792 --> 01:24:03.751
So I figure, well,
I'll teach them a lesson.

1748
01:24:03.834 --> 01:24:06.250
I'll give them some money.
I made it a tough deal.

1749
01:24:06.334 --> 01:24:08.709
It was actually like
a very difficult deal.

1750
01:24:08.792 --> 01:24:10.667
You know, I said,
"Okay, you can have like

1751
01:24:10.751 --> 01:24:12.876
"7.5 percent profits,
each one of you,

1752
01:24:12.959 --> 01:24:15.918
"but you are gonna have
to meet this hurdle rate

1753
01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:17.792
"of 7% before
you make a penny.

1754
01:24:17.876 --> 01:24:20.209
No salary, no income,
no nothing."

1755
01:24:20.292 --> 01:24:22.334
And they both agreed to it.

1756
01:24:22.417 --> 01:24:24.459
♪ ♪

1757
01:24:26.459 --> 01:24:29.375
Lombardo:<i> And I think Brett</i>
<i>really expanded Carl's mind</i>

1758
01:24:29.459 --> 01:24:32.083
<i>in terms of what makes
a good investment.</i>

1759
01:24:32.167 --> 01:24:35.083
It was Brett who called
Carl's attention to Netflix.

1760
01:24:35.167 --> 01:24:38.417
reporter:<i> Mr. Icahn owns</i>
<i>2.2 million shares.</i>

1761
01:24:38.500 --> 01:24:41.500
<i>That makes him
one of the largest
shareholders in Netflix.</i>

1762
01:24:41.584 --> 01:24:44.000
reporter 2:<i> Netflix,</i>
<i>Netflix the big winner</i>
<i>in today's trade.</i>

1763
01:24:44.083 --> 01:24:46.209
Carl:<i> Netflix was a no-brainer</i>
<i>when we first went into it.</i>

1764
01:24:46.292 --> 01:24:48.250
<i>Everybody didn't like it
when we bought it.</i>

1765
01:24:48.334 --> 01:24:52.000
So Netflix went on to be
one of their most lucrative
investments ever.

1766
01:24:52.083 --> 01:24:55.125
I think they made
around $2 billion
when all was said and done.

1767
01:24:55.209 --> 01:24:58.417
Foroohar:<i> As I remember</i>
<i>the Netflix success,</i>

1768
01:24:58.500 --> 01:25:00.667
<i>and it was a huge
success for Carl,</i>

1769
01:25:00.751 --> 01:25:01.751
was, whoa.

1770
01:25:01.834 --> 01:25:03.584
I mean, we knew
this guy was back,

1771
01:25:03.667 --> 01:25:05.959
but he's now back
and he gets tech.

1772
01:25:06.042 --> 01:25:07.417
(laughing) You know.

1773
01:25:07.500 --> 01:25:09.918
If I were the CEO of
a tech company at that stage,

1774
01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:11.834
I would have been
a little worried

1775
01:25:11.918 --> 01:25:14.959
that I might be the next person
he was looking at.

1776
01:25:15.042 --> 01:25:20.459
(trance music playing)

1777
01:25:20.542 --> 01:25:22.876
Brett:<i> Apple was</i>
<i>an example of a company</i>

1778
01:25:22.959 --> 01:25:25.083
<i>that was just really cheap</i>

1779
01:25:25.167 --> 01:25:27.667
on a fundamental basis
of cash flow.

1780
01:25:27.751 --> 01:25:30.792
Brett noticed that Apple
had immense amounts of cash

1781
01:25:30.876 --> 01:25:32.417
sitting on its books,

1782
01:25:32.500 --> 01:25:36.876
and the stock price
wasn't reflecting that.

1783
01:25:36.959 --> 01:25:41.751
reporter:
<i>Apple is now sitting on</i>
<i>almost $150 billion in cash.</i>

1784
01:25:42.876 --> 01:25:44.751
It was about
the finances of Apple.

1785
01:25:44.834 --> 01:25:48.709
It was about, could Apple
buy back their own shares,

1786
01:25:48.792 --> 01:25:50.584
and if they were
able to do that,

1787
01:25:50.667 --> 01:25:53.167
how much more
of a higher valuation

1788
01:25:53.250 --> 01:25:56.042
should be ascribed
in the marketplace to Apple?

1789
01:25:56.125 --> 01:25:58.209
(percussive music playing)

1790
01:26:05.584 --> 01:26:07.876
When we pitched my father Apple,

1791
01:26:07.959 --> 01:26:11.250
it was just so easy for him
to see this cash problem.

1792
01:26:11.334 --> 01:26:14.459
For a guy like that,
to show him just
those basic fundamentals

1793
01:26:14.542 --> 01:26:17.584
about a company, he just
started salivating right away.

1794
01:26:19.709 --> 01:26:21.542
Carl:
<i>When Twitter came out,</i>

1795
01:26:21.626 --> 01:26:24.626
I, I didn't even know
what it was, frankly.

1796
01:26:24.709 --> 01:26:27.709
<i>And Michelle, she comes up
with great ideas.</i>

1797
01:26:27.792 --> 01:26:29.834
She said, "You ought to have
a Twitter account."

1798
01:26:29.918 --> 01:26:31.542
I said, "Come on,
I'm not gonna do that."

1799
01:26:31.626 --> 01:26:33.751
She says, "No, no, you have
to have a Twitter account."

1800
01:26:33.834 --> 01:26:36.167
And then, when we bought Apple,

1801
01:26:36.250 --> 01:26:37.834
she said,
"Well, let me tweet that,

1802
01:26:37.918 --> 01:26:39.459
that you own Apple."

1803
01:26:39.542 --> 01:26:41.459
So I said, "Okay, do it."

1804
01:26:54.459 --> 01:26:57.542
Foroohar:<i> I remember</i>
<i>the tweet distinctly.</i>

1805
01:26:57.626 --> 01:27:01.042
And, you know, the markets
kind of went nuts immediately.

1806
01:27:01.125 --> 01:27:03.125
reporter:
<i>Apple shares in focus</i>

1807
01:27:03.209 --> 01:27:04.959
<i>after Carl Icahn disclosed
in a tweet</i>

1808
01:27:05.042 --> 01:27:07.500
<i>that he purchased
$500 million of Apple stock.</i>

1809
01:27:07.584 --> 01:27:10.125
reporter 2:<i> ...trying to get</i>
<i>a piece of Apple stock...</i>

1810
01:27:10.209 --> 01:27:13.500
reporter 3:<i> Announced he had</i>
<i>taken this stake on Twitter,</i>
<i>and Apple shares shot up.</i>

1811
01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:16.459
Lombardo:
<i>Just from that tweet,</i>

1812
01:27:16.542 --> 01:27:19.709
Apple's market value
jumped $17 billion.

1813
01:27:23.042 --> 01:27:24.751
Sorkin:
<i>The view on Wall Street is,</i>

1814
01:27:24.834 --> 01:27:27.000
what is Tim Cook gonna do
about this?

1815
01:27:27.083 --> 01:27:30.292
<i>People wanna
appease Carl Icahn.</i>

1816
01:27:30.375 --> 01:27:34.792
(trance music playing)

1817
01:27:34.876 --> 01:27:36.834
<i>I think people couldn't fathom</i>

1818
01:27:36.918 --> 01:27:40.751
<i>that Carl Icahn was
having dinner with Tim Cook.</i>

1819
01:27:40.834 --> 01:27:43.459
Tim Cook's visit to our home
for dinner

1820
01:27:43.542 --> 01:27:44.792
was a very exciting time.

1821
01:27:44.876 --> 01:27:47.417
We very carefully
went over the menu,

1822
01:27:47.500 --> 01:27:50.834
but I sort of like
to add my contribution.

1823
01:27:50.918 --> 01:27:56.500
For dessert, we had cookies
shaped in an apple shape

1824
01:27:56.584 --> 01:27:59.250
<i>with another bite
taken out of it,</i>

1825
01:27:59.334 --> 01:28:02.751
<i>to symbolize (laughs)
the shareholders' investment.</i>

1826
01:28:03.667 --> 01:28:05.751
(intense music playing)

1827
01:28:14.584 --> 01:28:17.417
Brett:<i> So on the night</i>
<i>of the dinner with Tim Cook,</i>

1828
01:28:17.500 --> 01:28:21.042
normally my father would
get there late, actually, but
I think he got there on time,

1829
01:28:21.125 --> 01:28:22.792
which is a huge compliment
to Tim Cook.

1830
01:28:22.876 --> 01:28:25.125
♪ ♪

1831
01:28:25.209 --> 01:28:26.626
<i>We talked to Tim</i>

1832
01:28:26.709 --> 01:28:29.334
<i>about all the different stuff
going on within Apple.</i>

1833
01:28:29.417 --> 01:28:32.959
<i>You know,
anything that he could
tell us publicly, anyway.</i>

1834
01:28:33.042 --> 01:28:35.000
<i>And then eventually
the small talk evolved</i>

1835
01:28:35.083 --> 01:28:39.542
<i>into, "Hey, you should
buy back more stock."</i>

1836
01:28:39.626 --> 01:28:42.292
Sorkin:
<i>Carl clearly wanted to get Tim</i>

1837
01:28:42.375 --> 01:28:45.250
<i>to pursue
a massive buyback program.</i>

1838
01:28:45.334 --> 01:28:50.834
And I think Tim wanted
to quiet the rhetoric.

1839
01:28:50.918 --> 01:28:52.375
♪ ♪

1840
01:28:52.459 --> 01:28:54.834
Carl:<i> Now, I don't say every</i>
<i>company should do buybacks</i>

1841
01:28:54.918 --> 01:28:56.834
<i>for the purpose
of financial engineering.</i>

1842
01:28:56.918 --> 01:28:58.834
<i>In fact, it's overdone.</i>

1843
01:28:58.918 --> 01:29:03.083
But in this case,
it was crazy for them
to have all of this cash around

1844
01:29:03.167 --> 01:29:05.000
and doing nothing with it.

1845
01:29:06.667 --> 01:29:09.250
Lombardo:
<i>I think Carl expected to find</i>

1846
01:29:09.334 --> 01:29:11.250
<i>the typical resistant CEO</i>

1847
01:29:11.334 --> 01:29:13.751
<i>who he'd have to
a little bit strong-arm,</i>

1848
01:29:13.834 --> 01:29:18.209
and Tim Cook sounds to have
been much more Zen about it.

1849
01:29:20.459 --> 01:29:22.209
reporter:
<i>Apple said it had returned</i>

1850
01:29:22.292 --> 01:29:24.542
<i>74 billion to shareholders.</i>

1851
01:29:24.626 --> 01:29:27.209
<i>It plans to return 103 billion.</i>

1852
01:29:27.292 --> 01:29:29.584
When I got the feeling
as an old poker player

1853
01:29:29.667 --> 01:29:32.876
that he wasn't really
displeased with the fact

1854
01:29:32.959 --> 01:29:35.959
that I was making a ruckus
about wanting to do a buyback.

1855
01:29:36.042 --> 01:29:37.709
I think he wanted
to do it himself,

1856
01:29:37.792 --> 01:29:40.667
but he had a board that was
rather reluctant to do it.

1857
01:29:40.751 --> 01:29:42.876
That's what I believe,
but he never said that.

1858
01:29:42.959 --> 01:29:45.626
<i>I think the board
came around to doing it.</i>

1859
01:29:45.709 --> 01:29:47.876
<i>And that's how
those buybacks started.</i>

1860
01:29:47.959 --> 01:29:50.626
Apple expanding
its capital return program

1861
01:29:50.709 --> 01:29:53.375
to $200 billion.

1862
01:29:53.459 --> 01:29:55.459
That was another billion five
right there.

1863
01:29:55.542 --> 01:29:56.834
Between Apple and Netflix,

1864
01:29:56.918 --> 01:29:59.042
we made for the company
about $3 billion,

1865
01:29:59.125 --> 01:30:02.292
and overall,
across all the investments,

1866
01:30:02.375 --> 01:30:06.459
over six years,
it was about 5 billion.

1867
01:30:06.542 --> 01:30:09.542
I'm really happy to make
my father that much money.

1868
01:30:11.334 --> 01:30:15.751
But I think I was worthy
of the Icahn name before that.

1869
01:30:15.834 --> 01:30:17.667
He made his father
billions of dollars.

1870
01:30:17.751 --> 01:30:21.834
He got his own hundreds
of millions of dollars payday
at the end,

1871
01:30:21.918 --> 01:30:23.709
and he even flirted
with the idea

1872
01:30:23.792 --> 01:30:25.417
of setting up his own firm.

1873
01:30:32.292 --> 01:30:34.542
Brett: Wait, wait,
we start it together.

1874
01:30:36.792 --> 01:30:39.709
Lombardo:<i> There were</i>
<i>rumblings on Wall Street</i>

1875
01:30:39.792 --> 01:30:41.083
<i>for years that,</i>

1876
01:30:41.167 --> 01:30:45.125
<i>what would come of Carl Icahn
and Icahn Enterprises?</i>

1877
01:30:45.209 --> 01:30:47.667
Would his son Brett take over?
Would he not?

1878
01:30:47.751 --> 01:30:49.542
Was there someone else
in the picture?

1879
01:30:49.626 --> 01:30:51.250
(engine puttering)

1880
01:30:51.334 --> 01:30:53.792
Brett:<i> I think it was always</i>
<i>a complicated issue for me</i>

1881
01:30:53.876 --> 01:30:56.918
because he has some big shoes
that I would have to walk in.

1882
01:30:57.000 --> 01:30:59.334
It's like, do you want
to spend your whole life

1883
01:30:59.417 --> 01:31:02.500
being compared to this
larger-than-life, you know,

1884
01:31:02.584 --> 01:31:04.500
greatest financier
of all time?

1885
01:31:04.584 --> 01:31:06.209
Um...

1886
01:31:06.292 --> 01:31:08.876
It's an issue.

1887
01:31:08.959 --> 01:31:10.334
Have you read the contract?

1888
01:31:10.417 --> 01:31:12.542
I mean, with you and Jesse,
what Jesse sent you?

1889
01:31:12.626 --> 01:31:15.584
-I've been reading it, yeah.
-Are you gonna get it
finished up?

1890
01:31:15.667 --> 01:31:18.209
-We got a lot to talk about.
-I know.

1891
01:31:18.292 --> 01:31:21.792
I asked Carl, "Is it true
that Brett will be coming back?"

1892
01:31:21.876 --> 01:31:24.876
And Carl said,
"You know, we've been trying
to negotiate a deal."

1893
01:31:24.959 --> 01:31:26.375
<i>It's been over a year now,
though,</i>

1894
01:31:26.459 --> 01:31:28.834
<i>and the contract has already
stretched to 90 pages.</i>

1895
01:31:28.918 --> 01:31:32.667
It sounds like he was
approaching this negotiation
with his son

1896
01:31:32.751 --> 01:31:34.584
the way he would
approach a business deal.

1897
01:31:34.667 --> 01:31:36.918
You should see what Jesse
did to the previous version.

1898
01:31:37.000 --> 01:31:39.292
I mean, it's like, uh...
a totally rewritten document.

1899
01:31:39.375 --> 01:31:40.334
Eh, he does that.

1900
01:31:40.417 --> 01:31:43.667
Jesse.
Oh, Jesse, poor Jesse.

1901
01:31:44.250 --> 01:31:46.334
(chuckles)

1902
01:31:46.417 --> 01:31:49.417
I think Carl and Brett
have a very similar style
of negotiation,

1903
01:31:49.500 --> 01:31:52.000
which makes it very tough
to mediate between them.

1904
01:31:52.083 --> 01:31:53.792
I think, you know,
Carl would readily admit,

1905
01:31:53.876 --> 01:31:56.417
I think he, uh, he trained
Brett a little too well.

1906
01:31:56.500 --> 01:31:58.834
You're cheating.
If you go through the trees,
it doesn't count.

1907
01:31:58.918 --> 01:32:00.834
Well, he's afraid.
I beat him.

1908
01:32:00.918 --> 01:32:04.626
I'm afraid? I won four races
and you only won one.

1909
01:32:04.709 --> 01:32:08.792
Big shot, listen, big shot.
I won one, you won two.

1910
01:32:08.876 --> 01:32:11.250
Am I Carl Icahn's
official successor?

1911
01:32:11.334 --> 01:32:15.500
I just don't know if I can
say the word officially.

1912
01:32:15.584 --> 01:32:20.459
(contemplative music playing)

1913
01:32:20.542 --> 01:32:23.125
-Carl: Oh, yeah, yeah.
-Gail: You're sittin'
in the egg.

1914
01:32:28.209 --> 01:32:32.125
Gail:<i> We had this house</i>
<i>in Miami for a long time</i>

1915
01:32:32.209 --> 01:32:34.375
<i>and didn't use it very much.</i>

1916
01:32:34.459 --> 01:32:38.751
<i>But as time went on,
we decided that it was
a very nice lifestyle</i>

1917
01:32:38.834 --> 01:32:42.500
to be able to live
here on this island.

1918
01:32:42.584 --> 01:32:46.083
It became clear that we
enjoyed it so much

1919
01:32:46.167 --> 01:32:48.292
<i>that perhaps
we should think about</i>

1920
01:32:48.375 --> 01:32:51.542
<i>moving our offices
down here as well.</i>

1921
01:32:51.626 --> 01:32:55.292
♪ ♪

1922
01:32:58.834 --> 01:33:00.959
(upbeat music playing)

1923
01:33:04.083 --> 01:33:05.584
That's down 160,

1924
01:33:05.667 --> 01:33:07.918
no, 160-- 100?
That's further down...

1925
01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:10.459
Gail:<i> Thirty minutes that</i>
<i>it takes to get to the office,</i>

1926
01:33:10.542 --> 01:33:13.417
it's a great time for him
to just collect his thoughts

1927
01:33:13.500 --> 01:33:14.876
when he's starting his day.

1928
01:33:15.626 --> 01:33:18.751
♪ ♪

1929
01:33:18.834 --> 01:33:22.042
<i>And he loves
being on the water.</i>

1930
01:33:22.125 --> 01:33:23.876
♪ ♪

1931
01:33:23.959 --> 01:33:26.042
Carl:<i> "I began</i>
<i>my career on Wall Street</i>

1932
01:33:26.125 --> 01:33:27.626
<i>"nearly 50 years ago.</i>

1933
01:33:27.709 --> 01:33:30.334
<i>"From a modest upbringing
in Queens, New York,</i>

1934
01:33:30.417 --> 01:33:32.626
<i>I have been fortunate enough
to accumulate..."</i>

1935
01:33:32.709 --> 01:33:36.125
Bill Gates:
<i>I first met Carl Icahn</i>
<i>at a Giving Pledge dinner,</i>

1936
01:33:36.209 --> 01:33:39.125
where we were bringing together
people who had large wealth.

1937
01:33:39.209 --> 01:33:41.542
♪ ♪

1938
01:33:41.626 --> 01:33:45.626
<i>And Carl did agree
to join the pledge,</i>

1939
01:33:45.709 --> 01:33:47.667
which means the majority
of his wealth

1940
01:33:47.751 --> 01:33:50.083
will go
to philanthropic causes.

1941
01:33:54.125 --> 01:33:56.000
You know, he helped me
with polio.

1942
01:33:56.083 --> 01:34:00.918
<i>He supported his wife's
activities in charter schools.</i>

1943
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:03.375
Sorkin:
<i>Carl's, to his credit,</i>
<i>been charitable.</i>

1944
01:34:03.459 --> 01:34:06.709
But because money is his army,

1945
01:34:06.792 --> 01:34:09.209
and because he still enjoys
doing what he does

1946
01:34:09.292 --> 01:34:12.542
and he needs the money
to have the leverage,

1947
01:34:12.626 --> 01:34:15.334
he probably has not obviously
been able to give away

1948
01:34:15.417 --> 01:34:17.918
the majority of his wealth, yet.

1949
01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:20.667
What's the relationship
between the two halves
of this paradox?

1950
01:34:20.751 --> 01:34:22.834
On the one hand, you got
all these generous rich people,

1951
01:34:22.918 --> 01:34:24.709
on the other hand,
you have the fact

1952
01:34:24.792 --> 01:34:27.167
that it's an age of inequality,
an age of anger.

1953
01:34:27.250 --> 01:34:29.167
(intense music playing)

1954
01:34:29.250 --> 01:34:32.417
The 25 richest Americans
in federal income taxes,

1955
01:34:32.500 --> 01:34:35.792
they paid relatively little
and sometimes nothing.

1956
01:34:35.876 --> 01:34:37.417
The political narrative
right now is that

1957
01:34:37.500 --> 01:34:40.125
average Americans should look
at guys like Carl and say,

1958
01:34:40.209 --> 01:34:41.751
"Ah, they shouldn't have
that much money,"

1959
01:34:41.834 --> 01:34:44.375
and, all right, I don't know
whether Carl should
or shouldn't.

1960
01:34:45.876 --> 01:34:47.334
Carl:
<i>The wealth gap between</i>

1961
01:34:47.417 --> 01:34:49.000
<i>the very rich
and the very poor</i>

1962
01:34:49.083 --> 01:34:50.792
<i>is getting wider and wider.</i>

1963
01:34:50.876 --> 01:34:54.876
Part of it is the ridiculous
amount of money

1964
01:34:54.959 --> 01:34:58.209
that top management is paid
for doing a poor job.

1965
01:34:58.292 --> 01:35:02.250
<i>Most CEOs are way overpaid.
That's not even a secret.</i>

1966
01:35:02.334 --> 01:35:06.459
<i>However, I have
no objection to people</i>

1967
01:35:06.542 --> 01:35:09.667
<i>that risk their own capital
for profit.</i>

1968
01:35:09.751 --> 01:35:12.042
<i>I mean,
what incentivizes people</i>

1969
01:35:12.125 --> 01:35:13.584
<i>is feeling they're
going to be rewarded.</i>

1970
01:35:13.667 --> 01:35:15.959
<i>The free enterprise system
is supposed to be there.</i>

1971
01:35:16.042 --> 01:35:18.626
(intense digital music playing)

1972
01:35:23.250 --> 01:35:24.792
(elevator bell dings)

1973
01:35:24.876 --> 01:35:26.334
Carl:
Thank you.

1974
01:35:26.417 --> 01:35:28.792
-We need a piece here.
-Yeah.

1975
01:35:28.876 --> 01:35:30.876
A sculpture.

1976
01:35:30.959 --> 01:35:33.459
Do you like the paintings
on the wall?

1977
01:35:34.709 --> 01:35:37.584
Carl:
I think it's too many.

1978
01:35:37.667 --> 01:35:39.334
Too much.

1979
01:35:40.792 --> 01:35:43.292
How you doing?
Everything going good today?

1980
01:35:43.375 --> 01:35:44.751
man: Good, yeah.

1981
01:35:44.834 --> 01:35:47.459
We're going to have
you guys, the brain trust.

1982
01:35:47.542 --> 01:35:49.250
Talk to you later.

1983
01:35:49.334 --> 01:35:51.959
Brettsky.

1984
01:35:52.042 --> 01:35:56.167
♪ ♪

1985
01:35:56.250 --> 01:35:58.792
Carl and Brett
finally reach a deal

1986
01:35:58.876 --> 01:36:01.209
for Brett to return
to Icahn Enterprises.

1987
01:36:01.292 --> 01:36:03.542
If you just do it
pro rata yourself,

1988
01:36:03.626 --> 01:36:06.042
it doesn't really help out
your return very much.

1989
01:36:06.125 --> 01:36:08.375
Then it doesn't matter
about the 10%, then.

1990
01:36:08.459 --> 01:36:11.667
Lombardo:<i> Brett will come</i>
<i>to Carl with investment ideas.</i>

1991
01:36:11.751 --> 01:36:14.417
<i>Carl will get the final say
over whether or not
they do them.</i>

1992
01:36:14.500 --> 01:36:17.667
Anything that they invest in,
Brett has to put a little bit
of his own money in.

1993
01:36:17.751 --> 01:36:19.542
You might have this job.

1994
01:36:19.626 --> 01:36:21.042
Cara:
<i>So Carl got comfortable</i>

1995
01:36:21.125 --> 01:36:22.959
<i>because he's
still squarely in charge.</i>

1996
01:36:23.042 --> 01:36:24.792
Brett:
<i>It's exciting.</i>

1997
01:36:24.876 --> 01:36:27.042
<i>It's as close to
an official succession plan</i>

1998
01:36:27.125 --> 01:36:28.292
as you're gonna get,

1999
01:36:28.375 --> 01:36:32.292
and Carl Icahn
is gonna keep working

2000
01:36:32.375 --> 01:36:34.667
until he cannot work anymore,

2001
01:36:34.751 --> 01:36:36.876
and hopefully that's
a long time from now.

2002
01:36:39.626 --> 01:36:41.250
Carl: I like this.

2003
01:36:41.334 --> 01:36:44.375
-This is nice.
-Yeah. Very nice.

2004
01:36:45.709 --> 01:36:49.459
(Perry Como playing
"Catch a Falling Star")

2005
01:36:49.542 --> 01:36:51.042
<i>♪ Catch a falling star ♪</i>

2006
01:36:51.125 --> 01:36:53.542
<i>♪ And put it in your pocket ♪</i>

2007
01:36:53.626 --> 01:36:57.083
<i>♪ Never let it fade away ♪</i>

2008
01:36:57.167 --> 01:37:00.584
And they wanted me to settle,
everybody settles.
I said, "I'm not settling."

2009
01:37:00.667 --> 01:37:02.000
nephew:
Happy birthday.

2010
01:37:02.083 --> 01:37:03.626
Oh, let me see this.

2011
01:37:03.709 --> 01:37:05.125
That is the coolest thing.

2012
01:37:05.209 --> 01:37:06.500
-Las Vegas.
-I'm keeping--

2013
01:37:06.584 --> 01:37:08.292
-This is the coolest.
-Yeah, it's for you.

2014
01:37:08.375 --> 01:37:09.834
-Wait, um...
-Where is my office?

2015
01:37:09.918 --> 01:37:12.209
Mom told me that you rented
this place or something?

2016
01:37:12.292 --> 01:37:13.918
-Gail: He owned that place.
-He owned that.

2017
01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:15.959
I owned the Stratosphere!

2018
01:37:16.042 --> 01:37:19.125
(indistinct chatter)

2019
01:37:20.792 --> 01:37:21.959
♪ ♪

2020
01:37:22.042 --> 01:37:24.918
1978 is when
our paths crossed.

2021
01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:27.417
Hard to believe
it's 42 years ago...

2022
01:37:27.500 --> 01:37:29.292
Sorkin:
<i>I think that Carl Icahn's had</i>

2023
01:37:29.375 --> 01:37:32.417
<i>a profound impact on society.</i>

2024
01:37:32.500 --> 01:37:35.375
<i>I think he has changed the way</i>

2025
01:37:35.459 --> 01:37:36.959
boards of directors operate,

2026
01:37:37.042 --> 01:37:38.250
the way companies think...

2027
01:37:38.334 --> 01:37:39.542
Gail:
Cheers!

2028
01:37:39.626 --> 01:37:41.209
Sorkin:
<i>...the way shareholders think.</i>

2029
01:37:41.292 --> 01:37:43.709
<i>I think all that
has been impacted</i>

2030
01:37:43.792 --> 01:37:45.417
by Carl Icahn.

2031
01:37:45.500 --> 01:37:47.876
(intense music playing)

2032
01:37:52.667 --> 01:37:54.918
Foroohar:
<i>I sometimes wonder</i>
<i>if peak Carl</i>

2033
01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:56.417
<i>doesn't represent
some kind of shift</i>

2034
01:37:56.500 --> 01:38:00.667
in the direction of capitalism
in this country.

2035
01:38:00.751 --> 01:38:03.375
♪ ♪

2036
01:38:03.459 --> 01:38:06.459
Lombardo:
<i>You can't deny that Carl</i>
<i>is a seminal figure</i>

2037
01:38:06.542 --> 01:38:08.500
<i>of capitalism
in the last 50 years.</i>

2038
01:38:08.584 --> 01:38:10.667
He's a lot of different things
rolled up in one.

2039
01:38:10.751 --> 01:38:13.626
I think that's part
of the reason that people
are so captivated by him.

2040
01:38:13.709 --> 01:38:15.083
♪ ♪

2041
01:38:15.167 --> 01:38:18.834
Wapner:
<i>Maybe some people</i>
<i>see Carl as everything</i>

2042
01:38:18.918 --> 01:38:21.959
that's wrong
with the current system,

2043
01:38:22.042 --> 01:38:24.709
that people are becoming
too rich.

2044
01:38:26.709 --> 01:38:29.584
I think the other side
of that is that you could
make an argument that...

2045
01:38:29.667 --> 01:38:32.626
Carl Icahn is
capitalism at its best.

2046
01:38:32.709 --> 01:38:35.584
<i>A guy who grew up with
not much,</i>

2047
01:38:35.667 --> 01:38:37.876
<i>who worked his butt off</i>

2048
01:38:37.959 --> 01:38:41.626
<i>and became one of the richest
men in the world.</i>

2049
01:38:41.709 --> 01:38:46.000
-Carl: Oh, God, this is it.
<i>-♪ Happy birthday to you ♪</i>

2050
01:38:46.083 --> 01:38:47.918
Oh, thank you.
Thank you very much.

2051
01:38:48.000 --> 01:38:50.459
-What, do I make a wish?
-Gail: You gotta make a wish.

2052
01:38:53.375 --> 01:38:56.334
♪ ♪

2053
01:38:56.417 --> 01:38:58.876
Carl:<i> It's like Alexander</i>
<i>the Great, right?</i>

2054
01:38:58.959 --> 01:39:02.626
<i>He's 31 years old
and he won Persia.</i>

2055
01:39:02.709 --> 01:39:06.292
<i>To everybody in the world,
he was the best
and the greatest.</i>

2056
01:39:06.375 --> 01:39:08.584
<i>But he cried
because he didn't think</i>

2057
01:39:08.667 --> 01:39:12.626
<i>there was any place else
to go to do a battle.</i>

2058
01:39:12.709 --> 01:39:17.500
<i>He put his army together
and then he went to India.</i>

2059
01:39:19.542 --> 01:39:23.042
<i>The army all worshiped him,
but a lot of them deserted</i>

2060
01:39:23.125 --> 01:39:25.167
<i>'cause they said he's crazy.</i>

2061
01:39:25.250 --> 01:39:28.542
<i>He just kept going and going
till they killed him.</i>

2062
01:39:28.626 --> 01:39:31.918
<i>And I think about that.
I'm a little bit like that.</i>

2063
01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:34.167
<i>Just keep going at it.</i>

2064
01:39:35.834 --> 01:39:38.042
Okay, I'll leave that there.

2065
01:39:39.292 --> 01:39:40.709
Okay, I think you got
everything.

2066
01:39:40.792 --> 01:39:42.626
Bruce:
We didn't get everything.
We got a lot...

2067
01:39:42.709 --> 01:39:44.834
Well, I'm not doing any more.
Don't even think about it.

2068
01:39:44.918 --> 01:39:47.125
Bruce: No, no, no.
For this, for right now,
we did everything.

2069
01:39:47.209 --> 01:39:50.000
Carl: No, what do you mean,
for right now? Wait a minute.
I'm not doing this.

2070
01:39:50.083 --> 01:39:52.167
(intense digital music playing)

2071
01:40:02.626 --> 01:40:06.167
So, one time they wanted
to build this terrace
behind my house.

2072
01:40:06.250 --> 01:40:08.250
<i>My grandfather lived upstairs,
see, so he said,</i>

2073
01:40:08.334 --> 01:40:10.584
<i>"Look, if you give me bricks,
I'll build a terrace."</i>

2074
01:40:10.667 --> 01:40:13.083
And my mother said, "We can't
afford to pay for bricks."

2075
01:40:13.167 --> 01:40:14.751
So I was tired of the arguing.

2076
01:40:14.834 --> 01:40:17.667
So I'm in this gang
with those hoodlums,

2077
01:40:17.751 --> 01:40:19.584
those friends of mine,
so I said,

2078
01:40:19.667 --> 01:40:21.751
"Get your wagons, guys,"
and they listened to me.

2079
01:40:21.834 --> 01:40:23.083
"Okay, Carl,
what are we doing?"

2080
01:40:23.167 --> 01:40:24.626
I said, "We're gonna
take bricks, see?

2081
01:40:24.709 --> 01:40:27.000
"Nobody will miss them because
we'll take three bricks here,

2082
01:40:27.083 --> 01:40:29.709
<i>four bricks there."
"Okay, that's fun."</i>

2083
01:40:29.792 --> 01:40:31.667
♪ ♪

2084
01:40:37.334 --> 01:40:38.918
So we come back
with all these bricks.

2085
01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:40.542
My grandfather's excited.
"This is great."

2086
01:40:40.626 --> 01:40:42.542
"I can build a terrace."
And my mother comes home,

2087
01:40:42.626 --> 01:40:44.500
says, "What is that?"
I say,

2088
01:40:44.584 --> 01:40:47.709
"They're bricks, Ma.
I got bricks for you
to build your terrace."

2089
01:40:47.792 --> 01:40:50.000
And she says, "We can't steal.

2090
01:40:50.083 --> 01:40:51.959
That is wrong."

2091
01:40:52.042 --> 01:40:53.959
I said, "You cut the bullshit."

2092
01:40:54.042 --> 01:40:56.709
I said, "You, first of all,
you keep talking about

2093
01:40:56.792 --> 01:40:59.250
you hate these builders, they're
all making too much money."

2094
01:40:59.334 --> 01:41:01.500
And she goes,
"Don't talk to me like that."

2095
01:41:01.584 --> 01:41:04.250
And my father says,
"Hey, who's gonna miss 'em?

2096
01:41:04.334 --> 01:41:06.000
They're not gonna miss 'em."

2097
01:41:06.083 --> 01:41:10.083
"Yeah... I guess they weren't
gonna use them anyway."

2098
01:41:10.167 --> 01:41:13.083
And we, "Here's the bricks,"
and we took 'em out.
That was it.

2099
01:41:13.167 --> 01:41:14.792
I just, I'll never forget that.

2100
01:41:14.876 --> 01:41:16.876
♪ ♪