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Downloaded from
YTS.MX
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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(car door closes)
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(engine starts)
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(intense digital music playing)
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Scott Wapner:
He started from nothing
and built a fortune
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worth upwards
of $20 billion.
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♪ ♪
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reporter: It is not often
that a Wall Street titan
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shows up on the cover
of "Time" magazine.
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reporter 2: The most feared
corporate raider in the world.
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reporter 3:
One of the shrewdest
investors on the planet.
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reporter 4:
He moves markets
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by the mere
mention of his name.
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reporter 5:
"Fortune" magazine says
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he may be making
more money for shareholders
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than anyone else on the planet.
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(applause)
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Gail Golden-Icahn:
He's tenacious.
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-man 1: Enigma.
-man 2: The smartest guy
I've ever met.
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woman:
He's the great white shark
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in the sea of capitalism.
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Carl Icahn: My mother said
I have some kind of warrior
gene in me or something.
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interviewer:
A warrior gene?
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various voices:
Marvel Comics, Time Warner,
Texaco, US Steel,
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Dell Computers,
Apple, PayPal, Caesars.
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reporter: Motorola. Yahoo...
all have felt
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the pointed sting
of Carl Icahn.
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I do it because
in a free enterprise system,
I do it for profit,
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but what I do should be done.
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-Totally terrifying.
-Bully.
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Great guy, but he's about
as smooth as a stucco bathtub.
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I own it, it's my money.
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If I lose, I'm answerable
to my bank account.
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♪ ♪
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I'm 85, you say, this guy's 85.
Pretty good, right?
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I can get some real heat on 'em.
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I don't like to start wars,
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but if somebody wants
to start it with me,
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there's something in me
that likes that
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'cause I'm really looking
forward to going at 'em.
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♪ ♪
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Wall Street, they look
at Carl Icahn and they say
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legend, they say genius.
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There's an admiration
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for what he's been able
to accomplish
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and the wealth
that he's created.
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The public, I think,
has a much more mixed view
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about the impact he's had
on companies,
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on labor, on society.
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♪ ♪
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Then the question is
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whether he is
a activist investor,
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an advocate
for the shareholder,
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representing the little guy,
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or corporate raider
who goes in,
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extracts value
out of that company
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to the detriment
of the long-term company
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but to the immediate benefit
of Carl Icahn.
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Let me do it.
No, I wouldn't say it that way.
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It's sort of a colorful term,
"corporate raider,"
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but it's far from the truth.
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Absolutely is ridiculous
related to what we do.
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It's the opposite of what we do.
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We bring things to the party.
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We don't raid 'em
and take 'em out.
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That's why I think eventually
it was changed to "activist."
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But activist or raider,
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I haven't changed
what I do one iota.
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Call me whatever you want.
(chuckles)
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♪ ♪
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So, how are my boys?
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Ah, what good boys.
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Susan Gordon:
He gets up about nine o'clock
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and he's already,
he's eating his breakfast
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and reading the newspaper
while he's talking,
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and, you know, writing notes
and all that.
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He immediately starts his day,
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catches up
with what the news is,
how the market's doing.
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Uber's got
one thing after another.
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We work together
in his home office,
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and then, about four o'clock
in the afternoon,
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he starts heading over
to his "office office"
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on Fifth Avenue,
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for meetings, or what
current crisis is going on.
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Crisis manager.
I'm like Ray Donovan.
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I try to... I try to...
I try to get it done
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and then I go
into another crisis.
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There's always a few of 'em.
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You don't have to
manufacture 'em.
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Wapner: I think the way
Carl looks at business
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and the way he does things
is he tries to identify
companies
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that he thinks are undervalued,
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and he'll secretly build
a position
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until it gets large enough that
he has to reveal the size.
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And he'll try and put pressure
on the CEO to do what he wants,
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whether that's doing a merger
or a share buyback.
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And in more cases than not,
over the years,
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the CEO will end up doing
something that he wants
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and the stock price will go up
and Carl will make
a lot of money.
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Meissonier's, it's "Napoleon
at the Battle of Friedland."
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Before hubris took over
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and took it all away from him.
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He was one of... Well, he was
a great strategist, no question.
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But then he lost it all
because of his arrogance.
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And that's one thing
you have to remember.
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It doesn't stay forever
if you're not careful.
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(discordant percussive
music playing)
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(intense digital music
playing)
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reporter: Carl Icahn, I guess,
doing what Carl Icahn does,
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and he is on the attack.
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reporter 2: Carl, what do you
object to most strongly?
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Carl:
I object to the fact
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that they did a acquisition
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that puts the company at risk
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and didn't go to the board
members for a vote.
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Andrew Langham: Somebody
from Reuters just called.
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-What did they say?
-They want to understand
what we're doing.
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You know, we want to remove
some of the directors
and put us in.
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They know I'm not going away,
so we just,
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we just keep,
we keep going.
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The idea of an activist investor
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is they buy a stake
in a company
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with the plan and ambition
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to go to the company's
management and board and say,
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"You're doing it wrong.
Here's how to do it."
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Carl:
Yeah, how you doing?
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I don't have to tell you
anything you don't know.
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I mean, I think it was
reprehensible what went on.
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I think they got no right
to do that without talking
to the shareholders.
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You know,
they're betting the company,
it's not their money.
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He looks at boards
and he looks at CEOs
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as country club boards.
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They spend no time thinking
about the company.
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They're collecting their fee
and they're playing golf
all day.
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Andrew Ross Sorkin:
The board of directors
of a company
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are supposed to represent
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the interests
of the shareholders.
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They are supposed to hold
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the CEO and management
to account.
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That is their job.
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Whether they do it is
Carl Icahn's biggest question.
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(percussive music playing)
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Hey, who the hell put this out?
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Who got this out, that we're
replacing four directors?
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-Yeah.
-We just told them that.
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You told them
'cause I told you.
We filed it, and so...
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(laughs) Oh, yes, we filed.
This is what he just filed.
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That's just what we was talking,
and they already put this out.
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Huh.
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Hey, we said
a lot worse than this.
We didn't say anything bad.
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Langham: We said a lot worse
a month ago.
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Here it is, it just
happened while you were here.
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It was a very...
you guys were here
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at the making of
a lot of history today, guys.
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It's not a sure thing that
when you take a big decision
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and tell a CEO what to do,
they're going to listen.
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It's also not a sure thing
that your advice is
the right thing to do.
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You need chutzpah.
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You're taking on big-deal CEOs.
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You're taking on their lawyers.
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It's a very high-stakes game.
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You can make billions,
but you can also lose it.
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That is stressful.
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-Hey, Gail,
-Gail: Yes?
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Come in here
for a minute.
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Oh, I'm his consigliere.
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At night time, we join up
and then go home together.
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Bruce David Klein:
What do you think drives him?
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Oh! (sighs)
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It isn't money,
strangely enough.
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You would think
it would be money.
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I mean, it's nice
that he can do it,
but it's not money.
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He just becomes
obsessed on something
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and he just keeps
like a bulldog,
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he just keeps going and going
until he gets what he wants.
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So... that's what drives him.
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I told him it's winning,
I think, competitive,
just winning.
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Coming up with a new idea
to beat the competitors.
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You know, we're gonna
be able to be
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the biggest and the best.
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That gets me excited.
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♪ ♪
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The money is just
sort of a goal.
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It's like, the explorers,
why do they keep doing it?
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They believed in going
for the gold, like Cortés
and these guys.
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But I think the actual
finding and doing
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is much more exciting
than having it.
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♪ ♪
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And I think
that's why you find
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a lot of rich people
get very neurotic.
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'Cause they're disappointed
when they have it.
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It's not what it's
drummed up to be.
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♪ ♪
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reporter:
He's been successful,
say Wall Streeters,
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because he's intimidating
and relentless.
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He was an only child
growing up during
the Depression
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in Far Rockaway, Queens,
New York.
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And even as a kid, his mother
said he was like Genghis Khan.
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He loves a good fight,
no doubt about it.
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(percussive music playing)
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announcer:
Tappan. Tappan.
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The name is Tappan.
Tappan... Tappan...
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Mark Stevens:
So in the late '70s,
Carl turned his attention
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to a company called Tappan.
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Tappan made ranges,
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and it was a good
brand-name range.
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Bob Barker:
Showcase number 2.
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-announcer: A new kitchen!
-(audience gasps)
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An electric range
from the famous Tappan.
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Quality appliances since 1881.
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Tappan has its first loss
in nearly half a century.
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Because of the loss, and loss
of faith in the company,
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the stock plummeted
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to I think about
seven or eight bucks.
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So Carl does his calculations,
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assesses the valuation
of the company
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between the stock price
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and the ultimate value
of the company.
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And there's a gap of about $15
that Carl feels is there.
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Carl: Well, we believed the
company was very undervalued.
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And Tappan fit
the program for me
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where I was embarking
on activism,
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where I thought it was
a great company, a great name,
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that could be
a takeover candidate
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being blocked by,
you know, the CEO
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and a board.
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The CEO was
a very strong personality,
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but I don't think he knew
much about the business.
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And Dick Tappan was
the founder's grandson.
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I think he was intimidated
by this guy Blasius.
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And I thought there was
a chance here to break through.
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So we went and bought
a lot of stock in it.
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00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:14,584
And, uh, we would then
make a little noise.
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(intense digital music playing)
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00:12:24,334 --> 00:12:27,751
Carl: "I'm writing this letter
to ask you to elect me
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00:12:27,834 --> 00:12:29,584
to the board of directors."
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00:12:29,667 --> 00:12:33,167
♪ ♪
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"During the past five years,
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"Tappan, under its
current management,
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00:12:37,209 --> 00:12:39,709
has lost $3.3 million."
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00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:49,500
The company is owned
by the shareholders
243
00:12:49,584 --> 00:12:51,834
and these managements felt like,
244
00:12:51,918 --> 00:12:53,751
"We don't wanna deal
with these shareholders."
245
00:12:53,834 --> 00:12:56,209
"They thought they'd get
under our skin? No."
246
00:12:58,542 --> 00:13:01,667
We ran a proxy fight
and they fought us like hell.
247
00:13:01,751 --> 00:13:04,000
♪ ♪
248
00:13:15,375 --> 00:13:18,834
It's just amazing.
Carl got a seat on the board.
249
00:13:20,667 --> 00:13:22,459
I think we were the wave.
250
00:13:22,542 --> 00:13:25,459
There was not anybody really
doing what we were doing.
251
00:13:25,542 --> 00:13:29,292
(relaxing music playing)
252
00:13:32,667 --> 00:13:35,292
Stevens:
When Carl goes to Ohio
253
00:13:35,375 --> 00:13:37,125
to visit with
Tappan management,
254
00:13:37,209 --> 00:13:40,125
it's an orderly life there,
255
00:13:40,209 --> 00:13:43,000
and everything is in
the right place.
256
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,083
The CEO called me up.
257
00:13:47,167 --> 00:13:49,500
He said, "I wanna have dinner
with you before the meeting."
258
00:13:49,584 --> 00:13:53,167
So I thought he'd want to have
a sort of nice chat with me.
259
00:13:53,250 --> 00:13:55,417
And he looked at me and he was
sort of fierce-looking.
260
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:59,083
He said, "Look,
at my board meeting,
you're an interloper.
261
00:13:59,167 --> 00:14:02,375
"I don't want you to say
anything at the meetings.
262
00:14:02,459 --> 00:14:06,083
I don't want you to disturb
the rest of the board
and we can get along better."
263
00:14:06,167 --> 00:14:08,000
And I was just
beginning this stuff.
264
00:14:08,083 --> 00:14:10,876
Today, I would have
told him to go to hell.
265
00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:13,083
Alfred Kingsley:
The next day, Carl came
266
00:14:13,167 --> 00:14:14,751
and we went into the meeting,
267
00:14:14,834 --> 00:14:18,083
which was pretty contentious.
268
00:14:18,167 --> 00:14:21,500
Carl: And the CEO decided
to buy another company.
269
00:14:21,584 --> 00:14:23,542
And he brought it
to the board.
270
00:14:23,626 --> 00:14:26,959
He was gonna make
the company less valuable
271
00:14:27,042 --> 00:14:29,542
in a strange way
but him more powerful.
272
00:14:29,626 --> 00:14:34,167
And the CEO is showing
everybody with his books
and his investment bankers
273
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:36,459
why this was
a great acquisition.
274
00:14:36,542 --> 00:14:39,292
The CEO, he said, "Look, I've
done a lot of work on this.
275
00:14:39,375 --> 00:14:43,209
I just want a vote
that agrees with me."
276
00:14:43,292 --> 00:14:47,959
And this one guy on the board
who never really spoke either
277
00:14:48,042 --> 00:14:50,792
but who owned a lot of stock,
he said, "Just a minute."
278
00:14:50,876 --> 00:14:52,500
He says, "I'm looking at this.
279
00:14:52,584 --> 00:14:55,250
I just don't understand
why we're buying it
with these numbers."
280
00:14:55,334 --> 00:14:58,918
The CEO, he says, "Are you
questioning my judgment?"
281
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,209
He's glaring at the guy.
282
00:15:00,292 --> 00:15:03,709
He says, "Sit down and vote
with all of us."
283
00:15:03,792 --> 00:15:06,125
He really was an imperious guy.
284
00:15:06,209 --> 00:15:09,000
And I'm watching
to see what to do.
285
00:15:09,083 --> 00:15:12,459
And, you know, at that time,
I didn't think anybody
would support me
286
00:15:12,542 --> 00:15:15,417
if I said anything,
but I said, "The hell
with this guy Blasius."
287
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:18,250
By that time, I didn't give
a damn if he liked me,
didn't like me.
288
00:15:18,334 --> 00:15:20,417
(intense digital music playing)
289
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:23,000
So I go, "Screw this guy."
290
00:15:23,083 --> 00:15:26,000
Stevens:
In this Tappan time,
one could think
291
00:15:26,083 --> 00:15:27,667
that Carl didn't have the...
292
00:15:27,751 --> 00:15:30,042
kahunas that he would have
later in big deals.
293
00:15:30,125 --> 00:15:31,334
He had more then.
294
00:15:31,417 --> 00:15:33,417
He had to do it with nothing.
295
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:35,417
He didn't have
billions in the bank.
296
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,834
Carl: I said,
"You know something, guys,
I'll tell you what I think."
297
00:15:38,918 --> 00:15:42,125
"This is probably
one of the worst deals
298
00:15:42,209 --> 00:15:44,500
"in, I'll say,
economic history.
299
00:15:44,584 --> 00:15:48,876
"It's insane.
We're buying this company
at ten times what it's worth,
300
00:15:48,959 --> 00:15:52,375
only," I say,
"to save Don Blasius' job.
301
00:15:52,459 --> 00:15:54,918
That's why we're doing it."
I really let him have it.
302
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,250
And the guy was going nuts.
He was turning red in the face.
303
00:15:57,334 --> 00:16:00,500
He says, "What are you saying?
Are you questioning my ability?"
I said, "Yes, I am.
304
00:16:00,584 --> 00:16:04,250
I don't think you're a good
CEO, you're just gonna
kill this company."
305
00:16:04,334 --> 00:16:06,876
All of the sudden, Carl,
he's not talking,
306
00:16:06,959 --> 00:16:09,459
he's yelling, he's demanding.
307
00:16:09,542 --> 00:16:14,209
"I, for one, will do everything
I can to stop this deal,
308
00:16:14,292 --> 00:16:16,042
"and now I'm saying it
to this board,
309
00:16:16,125 --> 00:16:17,584
so now let's have the vote."
310
00:16:17,667 --> 00:16:21,542
And Blasius is looking at me,
red in the face and all.
311
00:16:21,626 --> 00:16:24,834
And he says, "We'll put off
the vote till the next meeting."
312
00:16:24,918 --> 00:16:28,500
And then he just glowered at me,
and I just looked at him,
313
00:16:28,584 --> 00:16:31,417
and that was it.
314
00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:33,292
People are scratching
their heads saying, how the--
315
00:16:33,375 --> 00:16:36,667
"What the hell just happened?
Who is this guy?"
316
00:16:36,751 --> 00:16:40,876
"How did he foil the plans of
the CEO of a public company?"
317
00:16:42,292 --> 00:16:44,751
And then, only seven or eight
months later,
318
00:16:44,834 --> 00:16:47,500
Electrolux agreed to buy Tappan
319
00:16:47,584 --> 00:16:49,834
for a little over
$18 a share...
320
00:16:49,918 --> 00:16:52,125
♪ ♪
321
00:16:52,209 --> 00:16:54,000
...proving in absolute terms,
322
00:16:54,083 --> 00:16:56,209
Carl was right from
the beginning.
323
00:16:56,292 --> 00:17:00,918
Tappan was worth
a lot more than the $7
the stock was trading at
324
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,876
before Carl got involved.
325
00:17:02,959 --> 00:17:04,959
And all the shareholders
got richer.
326
00:17:07,375 --> 00:17:08,876
Carl: At the end,
327
00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:10,834
Dick Tappan comes over to me
328
00:17:10,918 --> 00:17:13,667
and he says, "Carl, Carl,
I wanna ask you a question.
329
00:17:13,751 --> 00:17:16,083
Would you manage my money?"
330
00:17:16,167 --> 00:17:18,542
And he wanted me
to manage money for him.
331
00:17:18,626 --> 00:17:19,959
And I did for a little bit.
332
00:17:20,042 --> 00:17:23,918
(contemplative piano music
playing)
333
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,459
This is Carl, Carl Icahn on.
334
00:17:27,542 --> 00:17:29,417
If I could interrupt
for a minute.
335
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:31,626
The CEO was just nefarious.
336
00:17:31,709 --> 00:17:35,375
He, his job in his mind was
to make himself a lot of money
337
00:17:35,459 --> 00:17:37,500
at the expense of shareholders,
he didn't care.
338
00:17:37,584 --> 00:17:40,792
And at the expense of
the company enriched himself.
339
00:17:40,876 --> 00:17:44,209
The idea that
some management teams
340
00:17:44,292 --> 00:17:46,209
were kind of not being
very smart
341
00:17:46,292 --> 00:17:49,709
and taking advantage of
their position as managers
342
00:17:49,792 --> 00:17:51,584
to the detriment
of the shareholders,
343
00:17:51,667 --> 00:17:54,042
you know, he got that
in his head early on,
344
00:17:54,125 --> 00:17:56,334
when the rest of the world
wasn't quite sure, you know,
345
00:17:56,417 --> 00:17:58,751
was this greenmail,
what, what was this?
346
00:17:58,834 --> 00:18:01,834
This is one of-- the most
reprehensible thing
347
00:18:01,918 --> 00:18:03,459
I think I've ever seen...
348
00:18:03,542 --> 00:18:06,584
But to some degree
he's been vindicated that,
349
00:18:06,667 --> 00:18:09,459
yes, management often needs
to be shaken up.
350
00:18:09,542 --> 00:18:12,167
He's helped stockholders
an awful lot,
351
00:18:12,250 --> 00:18:15,834
including plumbers and teachers
whose pension funds
352
00:18:15,918 --> 00:18:17,334
fund their retirement.
353
00:18:17,417 --> 00:18:21,042
So this is not just hoity-toity
big-time investors.
354
00:18:21,125 --> 00:18:23,209
The downside of that
is to say, yeah, but what about
355
00:18:23,292 --> 00:18:26,667
all the people
who lost jobs because of what
Carl did at all these companies?
356
00:18:26,751 --> 00:18:29,250
(somber digital music playing)
357
00:18:33,334 --> 00:18:37,626
Carl and guys like him, I think
the core criticism would be that
358
00:18:37,709 --> 00:18:39,626
they're not out to make
these companies better,
359
00:18:39,709 --> 00:18:41,334
they're out to make
a lot of money.
360
00:18:43,542 --> 00:18:46,626
Part of my values
is to make money and I
can't change my values.
361
00:18:46,709 --> 00:18:48,125
A great painter loves to paint.
362
00:18:48,209 --> 00:18:50,292
What do you do, criticize him
because he likes to paint?
363
00:18:50,375 --> 00:18:54,209
But what makes me fulfilled
about it is
364
00:18:54,292 --> 00:18:58,417
that I also believe I'm making
money by doing the right thing.
365
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:01,292
Sorkin: We've been having
a debate, it's an open debate,
366
00:19:01,375 --> 00:19:03,584
'cause I've done it
in the columns,
367
00:19:03,667 --> 00:19:07,626
about his role as a vulture
368
00:19:07,709 --> 00:19:10,667
or a shareholder advocate,
and which is it?
369
00:19:10,751 --> 00:19:14,083
And on certain days,
I've come out on the side
370
00:19:14,167 --> 00:19:17,500
of shareholder advocate,
and he, you know, loves it.
371
00:19:17,584 --> 00:19:20,459
And on certain days,
I have called him a vulture,
372
00:19:20,542 --> 00:19:22,083
and he'll call up screaming.
373
00:19:23,584 --> 00:19:26,959
What I like about Carl
is he's game for the debate,
374
00:19:27,042 --> 00:19:28,792
he wants that debate.
375
00:19:28,876 --> 00:19:31,250
Carl: Companies are
the backbone of our society,
376
00:19:31,334 --> 00:19:34,375
and many are terribly managed
and there's no accountability.
377
00:19:34,459 --> 00:19:36,667
When you can change that,
378
00:19:36,751 --> 00:19:38,083
you will have
some collateral damage,
379
00:19:38,167 --> 00:19:40,751
there's no question,
it's creative destruction.
380
00:19:40,834 --> 00:19:43,083
But we bring in the innovation,
381
00:19:43,167 --> 00:19:45,959
so we have companies
that are more productive,
382
00:19:46,042 --> 00:19:48,500
create more jobs,
in a macro picture.
383
00:19:48,584 --> 00:19:49,876
At the end of the day,
384
00:19:49,959 --> 00:19:52,417
Carl wants to make as much
money as possible,
385
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:56,334
despite what he may come out
and say publicly
386
00:19:56,417 --> 00:19:58,167
or write in one of his letters.
387
00:19:58,250 --> 00:20:00,125
I mean, that's
the criticism you hear.
388
00:20:00,209 --> 00:20:02,709
Carl: So everybody says,
"Well, that's great,
389
00:20:02,792 --> 00:20:04,792
Carl Icahn made money
for himself."
390
00:20:04,876 --> 00:20:08,042
But the real proof of
the pudding is in the eating.
391
00:20:08,125 --> 00:20:11,959
If you had invested
in Icahn Enterprises in 2000,
392
00:20:12,042 --> 00:20:14,792
when we really started
getting into the activism,
393
00:20:14,876 --> 00:20:17,459
the value of your investment
has increased
394
00:20:17,542 --> 00:20:19,626
1,931%.
395
00:20:19,709 --> 00:20:23,042
During that same period,
your investment in the S&P
396
00:20:23,125 --> 00:20:26,709
went up only 324%.
397
00:20:28,709 --> 00:20:30,626
We have made for shareholders,
398
00:20:30,709 --> 00:20:32,209
forgetting us,
399
00:20:32,292 --> 00:20:33,709
literally a trillion dollars
400
00:20:33,792 --> 00:20:35,417
for all investors.
401
00:20:37,167 --> 00:20:39,584
I think I proved it
by making all this money.
402
00:20:39,667 --> 00:20:41,167
This system should be changed
403
00:20:41,250 --> 00:20:43,292
and that we should have true
corporate democracy
404
00:20:43,375 --> 00:20:44,709
and accountability.
405
00:20:48,167 --> 00:20:51,292
Frankly, I made this money
because the system is so bad,
406
00:20:51,375 --> 00:20:52,834
not 'cause I'm a genius.
407
00:20:52,918 --> 00:20:54,500
(marching band plays)
408
00:20:54,584 --> 00:20:56,209
announcer:
This is New York.
409
00:20:56,292 --> 00:20:57,417
A miracle city.
410
00:20:57,500 --> 00:20:58,751
A monument to our nation's
411
00:20:58,834 --> 00:20:59,834
restless energy.
412
00:20:59,918 --> 00:21:01,667
Across the river from Manhattan
413
00:21:01,751 --> 00:21:03,834
lies the borough of Queens.
414
00:21:03,918 --> 00:21:06,667
(jazz band playing)
415
00:21:06,751 --> 00:21:09,709
Carl: I grew up
in the streets of Queens.
416
00:21:11,083 --> 00:21:12,500
It was sort of divided.
417
00:21:12,584 --> 00:21:14,792
In public school, you had
some of these middle-class,
418
00:21:14,876 --> 00:21:16,125
mostly Jewish kids.
419
00:21:16,209 --> 00:21:18,125
From the other side
of the tracks,
420
00:21:18,209 --> 00:21:19,667
a lot of
the reform school kids,
421
00:21:19,751 --> 00:21:21,459
and those were the kids
I liked, really.
422
00:21:21,542 --> 00:21:24,709
Used to play basketball
with the Gotti brothers.
423
00:21:24,792 --> 00:21:28,292
But the more my mother said,
"Don't do it," the more
I wanted to do it.
424
00:21:28,375 --> 00:21:32,125
Stevens: Bella Icahn
was the school teacher
425
00:21:32,209 --> 00:21:35,083
who was always teaching school.
426
00:21:35,959 --> 00:21:38,375
Carl's father was a cantor,
427
00:21:38,459 --> 00:21:41,792
the guy who sings
in a synagogue,
428
00:21:41,876 --> 00:21:43,626
who pressed Carl
429
00:21:43,709 --> 00:21:46,500
on philosophers and philosophies
and was unrelenting,
430
00:21:46,584 --> 00:21:48,876
and his mother, who was
unrelenting another way.
431
00:21:48,959 --> 00:21:50,667
She wanted him to go
to medical school,
432
00:21:50,751 --> 00:21:52,542
but they were both
very intense people.
433
00:21:52,626 --> 00:21:54,375
He had a tough childhood.
434
00:21:54,459 --> 00:21:57,584
I mean, you know, his parents
would brag about him in public
435
00:21:57,667 --> 00:21:59,500
but kind of berate him,
privately.
436
00:21:59,584 --> 00:22:01,709
(contemplative music playing)
437
00:22:08,584 --> 00:22:12,459
I was never really happy
in that whole environment.
438
00:22:12,542 --> 00:22:14,167
So I really wanted
to get out of there.
439
00:22:14,250 --> 00:22:16,709
I was real smart in school,
and I had good marks.
440
00:22:16,792 --> 00:22:20,083
I took the college boards,
441
00:22:20,167 --> 00:22:23,959
and I think I did the best
in Queens or something on 'em.
442
00:22:24,042 --> 00:22:26,417
And my father did say to me,
443
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:29,209
"If you get into Yale,
Harvard or Princeton,
444
00:22:29,292 --> 00:22:30,876
we'll pay the tuition."
445
00:22:30,959 --> 00:22:33,083
'Cause they figured
nobody ever got in
446
00:22:33,167 --> 00:22:34,584
from Far Rockaway
High School.
447
00:22:34,667 --> 00:22:37,459
And so I got into all of 'em.
448
00:22:37,542 --> 00:22:40,751
And everybody
was really surprised,
including my parents.
449
00:22:40,834 --> 00:22:43,709
I wanted Princeton.
450
00:22:43,792 --> 00:22:46,042
But then when it came
to thinking about paying
the tuition,
451
00:22:46,125 --> 00:22:50,292
it was only $750 in those days,
and the room and board was $750.
452
00:22:50,375 --> 00:22:53,083
My father said, "Son, we're
not gonna go back on our word.
453
00:22:53,167 --> 00:22:54,542
We're gonna pay your tuition."
454
00:22:54,626 --> 00:22:56,209
I said,
"Thanks, Dad, that's great.
455
00:22:56,292 --> 00:22:57,751
I appreciate it greatly."
456
00:22:57,834 --> 00:22:58,959
And then it hit me, I said,
457
00:22:59,042 --> 00:23:00,667
"What about
room and board, Dad?"
458
00:23:00,751 --> 00:23:03,125
And then he said,
"You're a smart kid.
459
00:23:03,209 --> 00:23:05,667
You gotta worry about
the room and board yourself."
460
00:23:05,751 --> 00:23:08,667
(doo-wop music playing)
461
00:23:12,834 --> 00:23:16,959
So, somehow
I wheedled myself a job
462
00:23:17,042 --> 00:23:18,292
on Atlantic Beach,
463
00:23:18,375 --> 00:23:21,250
the sort of, in quotes,
"wealthy people" came.
464
00:23:21,334 --> 00:23:24,042
So I'm a cabana boy,
figure I'll work for tips.
465
00:23:24,125 --> 00:23:27,250
And you could make close
to $100 a week.
466
00:23:27,334 --> 00:23:30,375
And these salesmen,
for the most part from Brooklyn,
467
00:23:30,459 --> 00:23:33,000
were playing poker.
468
00:23:33,083 --> 00:23:35,292
And once they said,
"Kid, how much you make?"
469
00:23:35,375 --> 00:23:37,250
I said, "Hey,
I made a hundred bucks."
470
00:23:37,334 --> 00:23:39,542
"Okay, you got a hundred bucks,
you wanna lose it,
471
00:23:39,626 --> 00:23:42,459
come here, do a game, we'll
show you what life's about."
472
00:23:42,542 --> 00:23:45,667
So I said, "Yeah,
I think I could play."
473
00:23:45,751 --> 00:23:48,584
And they wiped me out
in about a half an hour.
474
00:23:48,667 --> 00:23:49,959
I lost the $100.
475
00:23:50,042 --> 00:23:52,709
I said, "Hey, I'm smarter
than these guys."
476
00:23:52,792 --> 00:23:56,500
So during the week, I went out,
I got three books on poker.
477
00:23:56,584 --> 00:23:58,334
And it's really
a mathematical game.
478
00:23:58,417 --> 00:24:00,918
It's luck, too, but
these guys were not that good.
479
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,959
To begin with,
they were drinking vodka,
480
00:24:03,042 --> 00:24:04,792
and they were just having fun.
481
00:24:04,876 --> 00:24:06,709
The next week,
482
00:24:06,792 --> 00:24:09,626
I went in and I said,
"I'll play it again."
483
00:24:09,709 --> 00:24:13,709
They said, "Okay, kid,
you haven't learned
your lesson yet."
484
00:24:13,792 --> 00:24:15,709
And then I killed 'em.
485
00:24:15,792 --> 00:24:17,417
I got inordinately lucky.
486
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:21,542
And literally that weekend,
I won $800.
487
00:24:22,417 --> 00:24:25,542
♪ ♪
488
00:24:25,626 --> 00:24:27,918
And that's how I paid
my room and board
489
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,500
throughout Princeton.
490
00:24:29,584 --> 00:24:31,959
(playful digital music playing)
491
00:24:39,959 --> 00:24:42,792
Gail: I can tell you
the first moment
I fell in love with Carl,
492
00:24:42,876 --> 00:24:45,667
and that was when I
started working for him
493
00:24:45,751 --> 00:24:48,500
and heard him on the phone
speaking to his uncle,
494
00:24:48,584 --> 00:24:50,751
who had offended him
in some way.
495
00:24:50,834 --> 00:24:54,792
And he was so frank
in that exchange.
496
00:24:54,876 --> 00:24:57,375
Coming from
an Irish background
497
00:24:57,459 --> 00:25:00,125
where everything
is sort of hidden,
498
00:25:00,209 --> 00:25:03,209
I was not accustomed to
499
00:25:03,292 --> 00:25:06,834
that kind of depth of feeling
and that honesty of feeling,
500
00:25:06,918 --> 00:25:10,334
and I think that was
the first moment that I thought,
501
00:25:10,417 --> 00:25:14,083
"This guy has a little bit
more substance than
I thought he did," so...
502
00:25:15,125 --> 00:25:18,125
Oh, God, this elbow's
killing me.
503
00:25:18,209 --> 00:25:20,792
Well, you played pretty well
with the elbow killing you.
504
00:25:20,876 --> 00:25:22,584
Well, imagine the trouble
you're going to be in.
505
00:25:22,667 --> 00:25:24,500
Carl: Yeah, imagine if you
didn't have a bad elbow.
506
00:25:24,584 --> 00:25:27,709
You know, you hit those goddamn
little poopy shots at me,
507
00:25:27,792 --> 00:25:30,709
which, you know,
it throws me off my game.
508
00:25:30,792 --> 00:25:33,876
You know, that's, you know,
in some cases that's by design.
509
00:25:33,959 --> 00:25:35,876
I know you don't think that,
but it's by design.
510
00:25:35,959 --> 00:25:37,918
-Sometimes I just...
-Baloney, it's by design.
511
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,167
There are times
I play with you when
I deliberately hit it soft.
512
00:25:41,250 --> 00:25:43,792
You're not good enough
to deliberately hit it soft.
513
00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:45,959
You don't have a slice.
You don't, yeah.
514
00:25:46,042 --> 00:25:47,959
I don't have to have a slice.
515
00:25:48,042 --> 00:25:50,167
Yeah, I mean, you played well,
you played well.
516
00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:53,751
You actually, you actually
really did okay yesterday,
517
00:25:53,834 --> 00:25:57,000
got to admit,
with a bad elbow.
518
00:25:57,083 --> 00:25:59,918
Gail: We started
living together in '92,
519
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,876
and didn't get married
until '99.
520
00:26:01,959 --> 00:26:03,459
This is another horror story
521
00:26:03,542 --> 00:26:05,834
from a client from TWA.
522
00:26:05,918 --> 00:26:07,667
Gail: But I have
known him since '78.
523
00:26:07,751 --> 00:26:09,584
I started working
for him in '78.
524
00:26:09,667 --> 00:26:12,918
The first time I met Carl,
this employment agency said,
525
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,125
"Can you please come in?"
and she said,
526
00:26:15,209 --> 00:26:19,459
"I have this guy,
I've had a hard time
keeping people with him."
527
00:26:19,542 --> 00:26:20,876
-That's not true.
-Gail: Oh!
528
00:26:20,959 --> 00:26:22,500
I've had people
with me 20 years.
529
00:26:22,584 --> 00:26:24,375
I'm not gonna lie on camera,
so you can just go ahead
530
00:26:24,459 --> 00:26:26,292
-and say what you wanna say.
-Eh...
531
00:26:26,375 --> 00:26:30,626
But anyways, the pile of stuff
on his desk was incredible.
532
00:26:30,709 --> 00:26:33,834
So he says, "Do you think
you could help me with this?"
533
00:26:33,918 --> 00:26:38,167
This chaos, and in the first
two weeks, I was ready to quit.
534
00:26:38,250 --> 00:26:39,250
But he was fun.
535
00:26:39,334 --> 00:26:41,125
He was just very fun.
536
00:26:41,209 --> 00:26:43,500
And so, you know,
it started there.
537
00:26:43,584 --> 00:26:44,876
And it was, it was good.
538
00:26:44,959 --> 00:26:48,417
Tony Bennett:
♪ I'm steppin' out
with my baby ♪
539
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:50,918
♪ Can't go wrong
'cause I'm in right ♪
540
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,167
♪ It's for sure,
not for maybe ♪
541
00:26:54,250 --> 00:26:56,834
♪ That I'm all
dressed up tonight ♪
542
00:26:56,918 --> 00:26:59,375
-♪ Steppin' out with my honey ♪
-You're gettin' too good...
543
00:26:59,459 --> 00:27:02,334
♪ Can't be bad,
feels so good ♪
544
00:27:02,417 --> 00:27:05,167
♪ Never felt quite so sunny ♪
545
00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:08,042
♪ And I keep on
knockin' wood... ♪
546
00:27:08,125 --> 00:27:11,876
I think what keeps it going
is respect for each other.
547
00:27:11,959 --> 00:27:13,626
Um, and we laugh a lot.
548
00:27:13,709 --> 00:27:17,125
I mean, there's a lot of banter,
you know, sarcasm,
back and forth.
549
00:27:17,209 --> 00:27:20,042
-Doesn't matter what you think.
-Gail: It doesn't matter
what you think.
550
00:27:20,125 --> 00:27:22,167
-Who cares what you think?
-Who cares what you think?
551
00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:24,876
We can banter with each other,
552
00:27:24,959 --> 00:27:30,042
but she's one of the few people
whose opinion I really value.
553
00:27:30,125 --> 00:27:33,042
Some nights I fall asleep
in the bath.
554
00:27:33,125 --> 00:27:34,667
And Gail turns a movie on
555
00:27:34,751 --> 00:27:37,125
and doesn't bother
to tell me she leaves.
556
00:27:37,209 --> 00:27:39,709
And I wake up and say,
"Holy, where am I?"
557
00:27:39,792 --> 00:27:43,709
I say, "Gail, maybe you could
have waked me up, check in.
558
00:27:43,792 --> 00:27:46,000
I could have been dead
in there."
559
00:27:46,083 --> 00:27:47,292
-Gail: Seriously.
-What?
560
00:27:47,375 --> 00:27:49,292
I could be on fire
sitting next to him
561
00:27:49,375 --> 00:27:50,709
and he wouldn't spit on me.
562
00:27:50,792 --> 00:27:52,125
What is this nonsense?
563
00:27:52,209 --> 00:27:55,709
She wouldn't know if she left me
in the bathtub drowning.
564
00:27:55,792 --> 00:27:57,125
It's a nice way to spend a life.
565
00:27:57,209 --> 00:27:58,417
(phone ringing)
566
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,209
Oh, you should stop.
567
00:28:00,292 --> 00:28:03,167
Because you have to answer
the phone because...
568
00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:05,626
-Well, somebody's
gotta answer it.
-...I just can't.
569
00:28:05,709 --> 00:28:08,209
-It might be important.
-Let somebody else
answer the phone.
570
00:28:08,292 --> 00:28:09,667
What if it was for me?
571
00:28:09,751 --> 00:28:11,709
Carl:
Eh, now I lost it.
572
00:28:11,792 --> 00:28:14,834
(percussive music playing)
573
00:28:14,918 --> 00:28:19,667
So, Carl goes to Princeton
and he's kind of an outsider.
574
00:28:19,751 --> 00:28:21,542
♪ ♪
575
00:28:21,626 --> 00:28:24,459
Peter Liebert: We started
at Princeton in 1953,
576
00:28:24,542 --> 00:28:29,375
but there was clearly a social
pecking order at Princeton.
577
00:28:29,459 --> 00:28:32,292
The nature
of the social situation was
578
00:28:32,375 --> 00:28:37,584
that Jews didn't even apply
to certain clubs.
579
00:28:37,667 --> 00:28:39,792
I never resented it.
580
00:28:39,876 --> 00:28:43,417
But I think, in many ways,
Carl did.
581
00:28:46,042 --> 00:28:47,667
Rana Foroohar:
That's the thing about Carl,
582
00:28:47,751 --> 00:28:50,000
is he has kept that feeling
of being an outsider,
583
00:28:50,083 --> 00:28:53,250
because I think that,
at seminal moments in his life,
584
00:28:53,334 --> 00:28:55,417
he very much was an outsider.
585
00:28:56,918 --> 00:28:59,042
Liebert:
And I think Carl felt
586
00:28:59,125 --> 00:29:02,918
a desire to prove to himself
and to others
587
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,792
that he's smarter
than most of these people.
588
00:29:07,417 --> 00:29:09,167
Stevens:
He majored in philosophy.
589
00:29:09,250 --> 00:29:12,000
And the best way Carl
could exercise
590
00:29:12,083 --> 00:29:15,000
his lifelong need
to show superiority
591
00:29:15,083 --> 00:29:16,542
to the Brahmin culture
592
00:29:16,626 --> 00:29:18,500
that dominated Princeton
in those days
593
00:29:18,584 --> 00:29:20,167
was to win the senior thesis,
594
00:29:20,250 --> 00:29:23,167
which is the equivalent
of being valedictorian.
595
00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:25,459
Carl:
The thing I enjoy
by far the most,
596
00:29:25,542 --> 00:29:28,417
and maybe in my life,
that I'm the proudest of,
597
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:29,584
was my thesis.
598
00:29:29,667 --> 00:29:31,167
And I just wanted to prove
599
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:33,751
that I could accomplish
something.
600
00:29:35,292 --> 00:29:38,500
Stevens:
It's almost unreadable,
it's so complex.
601
00:29:38,584 --> 00:29:40,626
But he got his revenge,
602
00:29:40,709 --> 00:29:43,751
and he won that senior thesis.
603
00:29:45,083 --> 00:29:48,417
I'm telling you,
this is very arcane stuff.
604
00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:51,584
I won an award for it,
but when I read it again,
605
00:29:51,667 --> 00:29:54,000
I honestly can't understand
what I wrote.
606
00:29:54,083 --> 00:29:56,542
It was just an exercise,
607
00:29:56,626 --> 00:29:59,876
I won't say in futility,
but an exercise in logic,
608
00:29:59,959 --> 00:30:03,042
which is... really fulfilling,
609
00:30:03,125 --> 00:30:06,000
but it wasn't for me.
610
00:30:06,083 --> 00:30:10,042
♪ ♪
611
00:30:10,125 --> 00:30:12,209
I got accepted
to medical school,
612
00:30:12,292 --> 00:30:13,918
and I really didn't
wanna go.
613
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,751
I didn't wanna be a doctor,
but my mother was so adamant.
614
00:30:16,834 --> 00:30:19,000
She said, "It's
an anti-Semitic world,
615
00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:20,626
therefore be a doctor."
616
00:30:20,709 --> 00:30:22,375
And then she used
to scare me and say,
617
00:30:22,459 --> 00:30:24,334
"If you don't,
you get out of Princeton,
618
00:30:24,417 --> 00:30:27,209
they're gonna
take you in the army
and they're gonna kill ya."
619
00:30:28,584 --> 00:30:30,751
So I quit a couple of times.
620
00:30:30,834 --> 00:30:33,500
My mother always
talked me into going back.
621
00:30:33,584 --> 00:30:37,584
And one time we go
into this tuberculosis ward,
622
00:30:37,667 --> 00:30:40,584
and I'm a slight hypochondriac,
but not terrible.
623
00:30:40,667 --> 00:30:43,250
This resident picks me
from the back, he says,
624
00:30:43,334 --> 00:30:45,542
"Icahn, give me
a differential diagnosis."
625
00:30:45,626 --> 00:30:47,876
I tried to be funny,
so I look at him and say,
"Hey, Doctor,
626
00:30:47,959 --> 00:30:50,500
we know what he got, it says
'tuberculosis' up there."
627
00:30:50,584 --> 00:30:52,959
He says, "Don't be funny,
this is medicine."
628
00:30:53,042 --> 00:30:55,584
So I lean over the guy
and I tap his chest.
629
00:30:55,667 --> 00:30:58,542
Coughs all over me,
I say, "Bullshit, that's it."
630
00:30:58,626 --> 00:31:00,751
"I quit."
631
00:31:00,834 --> 00:31:02,209
He says,
"You don't leave here.
632
00:31:02,292 --> 00:31:03,751
You leave here,
you're never coming back."
633
00:31:03,834 --> 00:31:05,500
I said, "It's okay with me
if I never come back.
634
00:31:05,584 --> 00:31:06,792
You talk to my mother."
635
00:31:06,876 --> 00:31:09,751
So I remember to this day,
I walked from 34th Street
636
00:31:09,834 --> 00:31:12,834
all the way up 42nd Street,
where you could join the army.
637
00:31:12,918 --> 00:31:15,542
♪ ♪
638
00:31:15,626 --> 00:31:18,709
The army, to Carl, was
the witness protection program.
639
00:31:18,792 --> 00:31:21,209
And he would tell me this,
"My mom couldn't get me."
640
00:31:21,292 --> 00:31:23,709
There were two choices:
jail or the army.
641
00:31:23,792 --> 00:31:26,417
Carl: I never liked
the discipline of anything.
642
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:28,626
I hated the army.
643
00:31:28,709 --> 00:31:32,375
But I made money in the army,
I played poker in it,
but I hated it.
644
00:31:32,459 --> 00:31:37,209
So I left the army
with maybe 20, 25 grand.
645
00:31:37,292 --> 00:31:40,000
By his poker playing,
you start to see his ability
646
00:31:40,083 --> 00:31:41,626
with numbers and strategy.
647
00:31:41,709 --> 00:31:45,792
And he started thinking about
finance in a serious way.
648
00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:52,876
So we're finally, we're going
to be doing the test run
649
00:31:52,959 --> 00:31:55,417
-of the podcast today.
-Good idea.
650
00:31:59,918 --> 00:32:02,417
My roots come from
more, um, storytelling,
651
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:05,667
and so I started doing
different projects
652
00:32:05,751 --> 00:32:10,250
for my father,
like PR and his social media.
653
00:32:11,375 --> 00:32:14,417
What I wanna do
in this podcast is
654
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:16,375
-call it "Outrage," you know...
-Yeah.
655
00:32:16,459 --> 00:32:18,209
...and call it
"Outrage of the Week,"
656
00:32:18,292 --> 00:32:21,542
AKA "How shareholders
are getting screwed."
657
00:32:21,626 --> 00:32:23,292
And just tell it as it is.
658
00:32:23,375 --> 00:32:26,959
And then we'll see how it
works, but we'll play with it.
659
00:32:27,042 --> 00:32:30,292
All right, so this is what
we're gonna do, we're gonna
put our headphones on.
660
00:32:30,375 --> 00:32:32,042
You're gonna take them,
you just open them up.
661
00:32:32,125 --> 00:32:34,959
-You talk to me like
I'm a moron. I can-- Okay.
-I know. (laughs)
662
00:32:35,042 --> 00:32:38,042
-Michelle, I'll show you
how to do it.
-(laughing)
663
00:32:38,125 --> 00:32:39,792
Michelle:
As a child,
664
00:32:39,876 --> 00:32:43,375
I didn't know how monumental
the deals were
665
00:32:43,459 --> 00:32:46,083
that my dad was involved in.
666
00:32:46,167 --> 00:32:48,792
I just knew he was
really, really busy.
667
00:32:53,083 --> 00:32:55,083
But PayPal is
an exciting company,
668
00:32:55,167 --> 00:32:57,959
but it should have been
spun off, but the board
didn't wanna lose it.
669
00:32:58,042 --> 00:33:00,250
After we were fighting
to spin it off for three years,
670
00:33:00,334 --> 00:33:02,542
and the CEO suddenly
had an epiphany.
671
00:33:02,626 --> 00:33:06,125
"Wow, great idea I just had.
Let's spin off PayPal."
672
00:33:06,209 --> 00:33:07,626
And the stock went way up.
673
00:33:07,709 --> 00:33:09,459
He works all the time.
674
00:33:09,542 --> 00:33:12,125
I think that was,
that's his mission.
675
00:33:14,083 --> 00:33:15,667
What's surprising is
676
00:33:15,751 --> 00:33:17,334
that I think Bernie Sanders
677
00:33:17,417 --> 00:33:20,083
and even Elizabeth Warren
have a point.
678
00:33:20,167 --> 00:33:22,918
And I don't like them, I mean,
because I don't like socialism.
679
00:33:23,042 --> 00:33:25,626
I don't think it could work,
but what they are saying,
680
00:33:25,709 --> 00:33:28,250
this wealth gap,
the tremendous wealth gap,
681
00:33:28,334 --> 00:33:30,083
-should not exist.
-Yeah.
682
00:33:30,167 --> 00:33:32,709
People on Wall Street
are tremendously overpaid.
683
00:33:32,792 --> 00:33:36,250
The investment bankers make
ridiculous incomes,
684
00:33:36,334 --> 00:33:39,292
relative
to what they contribute.
685
00:33:39,375 --> 00:33:41,667
You know, I think my father
is an activist.
686
00:33:41,751 --> 00:33:46,167
I think by nature he wants
to create change.
687
00:33:46,250 --> 00:33:48,042
When I came into Wall Street,
688
00:33:48,125 --> 00:33:52,334
I realized playing the market
is extremely risky,
689
00:33:52,417 --> 00:33:55,125
extremely dangerous, so...
690
00:33:55,209 --> 00:33:58,375
Michelle:
He talks a lot about
the market in 1962.
691
00:33:58,459 --> 00:34:00,709
You know, for him that was...
692
00:34:00,792 --> 00:34:04,209
I think that was one
of the most impactful moments.
693
00:34:04,292 --> 00:34:07,334
(intense digital music playing)
694
00:34:10,125 --> 00:34:13,292
Carl: When I got out
of the army, basically,
695
00:34:13,375 --> 00:34:16,209
I went to Wall Street
because I was into stocks,
696
00:34:16,292 --> 00:34:17,792
I was into making money.
697
00:34:17,876 --> 00:34:21,918
I got in the training program
at Dreyfus
698
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,918
and started investing,
699
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,042
and it fit perfectly for me.
700
00:34:27,125 --> 00:34:28,542
And I'm making a fortune.
701
00:34:28,626 --> 00:34:30,584
I'm making all this money.
702
00:34:30,667 --> 00:34:34,417
I bought a Galaxy convertible.
703
00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:36,542
I had a beautiful girlfriend.
704
00:34:36,626 --> 00:34:38,876
And life was good,
and I figured,
705
00:34:38,959 --> 00:34:41,667
"This is the easiest
damn thing I ever did."
706
00:34:41,751 --> 00:34:44,250
And Jack Dreyfus came to me,
said, "You know,
707
00:34:44,334 --> 00:34:46,292
"Carl, you're a smart guy.
708
00:34:46,375 --> 00:34:48,959
"You're gonna lose every penny
you got there.
709
00:34:49,042 --> 00:34:52,250
Learn to be an investor,
not what you do."
710
00:34:52,334 --> 00:34:54,834
He says, "You're
just one of the fools."
711
00:34:54,918 --> 00:34:57,834
I said, "Come on, Jack,
move over," you know,
we're laughing.
712
00:34:57,918 --> 00:35:01,751
And I learned a great lesson.
You always pay for hubris.
713
00:35:01,834 --> 00:35:04,709
In '62, the market broke.
714
00:35:04,792 --> 00:35:06,584
Terrible.
715
00:35:06,667 --> 00:35:08,000
Jack was right.
716
00:35:08,083 --> 00:35:09,459
I was wiped out.
717
00:35:09,542 --> 00:35:10,876
I don't know which went first,
718
00:35:10,959 --> 00:35:13,250
the Galaxy
or the girlfriend I had.
719
00:35:15,292 --> 00:35:17,209
After that, I never played
the market again.
720
00:35:17,292 --> 00:35:19,709
Really, literally,
I went to work.
721
00:35:19,792 --> 00:35:24,083
♪ ♪
722
00:35:24,167 --> 00:35:27,167
I had to learn one area
and be an expert in it.
723
00:35:27,250 --> 00:35:29,209
I looked at the option world.
724
00:35:29,292 --> 00:35:33,167
I realized there
was something awry,
that there was a problem.
725
00:35:33,250 --> 00:35:34,751
Options were mysterious.
726
00:35:34,834 --> 00:35:37,626
What should they sell for,
what should you buy them for?
727
00:35:37,709 --> 00:35:39,876
You had no place
to really know and look
728
00:35:39,959 --> 00:35:41,626
about what was a good deal.
729
00:35:41,709 --> 00:35:43,876
(percussive music playing)
730
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,334
Carl:
The option brokers were all...
731
00:35:54,417 --> 00:35:55,626
I wouldn't say thieves,
732
00:35:55,709 --> 00:35:57,542
but you would say
they didn't give a damn.
733
00:35:57,626 --> 00:36:00,334
So they would go buy
these options
734
00:36:00,417 --> 00:36:03,125
and make
a huge markup on them.
735
00:36:03,209 --> 00:36:04,834
So I came up
with something called
736
00:36:04,918 --> 00:36:06,626
"The Midweek Option Report,"
737
00:36:06,709 --> 00:36:08,209
that would tell people,
738
00:36:08,292 --> 00:36:10,918
"This is what you should have
been getting for your option
739
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,584
and this is what you got,
and you got screwed."
740
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:19,250
And I'm an obsessive worker.
741
00:36:19,334 --> 00:36:22,209
I would stay down
on Wall Street
working till midnight,
742
00:36:22,292 --> 00:36:25,751
calling people up
because in California
it was only nine o'clock.
743
00:36:25,834 --> 00:36:27,542
I didn't know
about mugging or anything.
744
00:36:27,626 --> 00:36:29,042
I'd go back,
I'd be the only guy
745
00:36:29,125 --> 00:36:31,042
on the subway going uptown.
746
00:36:31,125 --> 00:36:36,542
And I was looked on
as an honest broker,
and the business boomed.
747
00:36:36,626 --> 00:36:40,125
And I became one of
the biggest brokers on
Wall Street doing that.
748
00:36:41,334 --> 00:36:43,626
Stevens:
But in the evolution of Carl,
749
00:36:43,709 --> 00:36:45,667
to be a real player,
he had to have a seat
750
00:36:45,751 --> 00:36:47,375
on the New York Stock Exchange.
751
00:36:47,459 --> 00:36:50,375
Carl:
I had saved
a few hundred grand,
752
00:36:50,459 --> 00:36:52,125
and my uncle had some money,
753
00:36:52,209 --> 00:36:55,250
and I decided to buy
the seat on the Exchange.
754
00:36:57,083 --> 00:36:58,792
Elliot Schnall:
Tell me when you're on.
755
00:36:58,876 --> 00:37:00,292
(clapper claps)
756
00:37:00,375 --> 00:37:01,834
I was...
757
00:37:01,918 --> 00:37:04,334
17 when Carl was born.
758
00:37:04,417 --> 00:37:07,375
He was like a kid brother.
759
00:37:09,375 --> 00:37:11,667
Elliot was a man about town.
760
00:37:11,751 --> 00:37:13,626
He was distinguished
761
00:37:13,709 --> 00:37:15,751
and polished.
762
00:37:15,834 --> 00:37:18,417
Carl learned a lot from Elliot.
763
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:21,209
He wanted to start
his own firm,
764
00:37:21,292 --> 00:37:25,584
and in order to do that,
you had to buy a seat.
765
00:37:25,667 --> 00:37:28,959
reporter: Uncle Elliot
loaned Icahn $400,000
766
00:37:29,042 --> 00:37:31,876
so he could buy a seat on
the New York Stock Exchange.
767
00:37:31,959 --> 00:37:35,000
No, I knew he would be
a success at it.
768
00:37:35,083 --> 00:37:37,292
Then he started his own firm.
769
00:37:37,375 --> 00:37:40,500
reporter: Icahn began
with options and arbitrage.
770
00:37:40,584 --> 00:37:43,918
Then in 1979,
he had a new idea: takeovers.
771
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,667
He told Uncle Elliot
772
00:37:45,751 --> 00:37:48,667
he was going to start going
after undervalued companies.
773
00:37:48,751 --> 00:37:51,709
I said, "Well, what do you know
about undervalued companies?"
774
00:37:51,792 --> 00:37:54,000
He says, "Look,
I'm going to do it."
775
00:37:54,083 --> 00:37:57,250
I said, "Carl, forget it."
I thought he was crazy.
776
00:37:57,334 --> 00:37:59,083
I'll give you some scotch here.
777
00:37:59,167 --> 00:38:00,542
He just bought it today.
778
00:38:00,626 --> 00:38:03,042
It's good for ya.
Here, let me give it to ya.
779
00:38:03,125 --> 00:38:05,292
No, I don't want any more.
780
00:38:05,375 --> 00:38:07,959
Hey, you look good, Elliot,
you look good.
781
00:38:08,042 --> 00:38:09,959
-Elliot: I look good?
-You look okay.
782
00:38:10,042 --> 00:38:11,542
You look fine.
783
00:38:11,626 --> 00:38:14,042
Elliot:
She's gonna give me a haircut.
784
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:19,584
(crowd cheering)
785
00:38:29,626 --> 00:38:32,459
Bryan Burrough:
In the early '80s,
there were an awful lot
786
00:38:32,542 --> 00:38:35,876
of young, white American men
in search of fortunes
787
00:38:35,959 --> 00:38:37,751
who were
flooding into Wall Street
788
00:38:37,834 --> 00:38:39,125
and wanted to know
789
00:38:39,209 --> 00:38:41,083
that what they were doing
was okay,
790
00:38:41,167 --> 00:38:43,417
because everybody would
go home on Sunday
791
00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:46,834
and your mom would say, "Jimmy,
what do you actually do?"
792
00:38:46,918 --> 00:38:48,667
In the last five years,
793
00:38:48,751 --> 00:38:51,042
we've moved from malaise
794
00:38:51,125 --> 00:38:53,500
to hope, confidence,
and opportunity.
795
00:38:53,584 --> 00:38:56,626
Burrough:
But Reagan comes
and there is a feeling
796
00:38:56,709 --> 00:38:58,918
of a laying on of hands,
797
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,876
that this is okay,
798
00:39:00,959 --> 00:39:04,209
that pursuing money,
it's not only okay,
799
00:39:04,292 --> 00:39:06,918
but it's somehow
good for the country.
800
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,250
It was like Reagan
telling everybody that
it was okay to party.
801
00:39:10,334 --> 00:39:12,918
We're going to turn
the bull loose.
802
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,667
(bell clanging,
traders cheering)
803
00:39:15,751 --> 00:39:17,876
("Blue Monday"
by New Order playing)
804
00:39:17,959 --> 00:39:20,709
Burrough: If you didn't
live through the '80s
on Wall Street,
805
00:39:20,792 --> 00:39:23,292
it's almost impossible
to understand.
806
00:39:23,375 --> 00:39:26,209
-Zurich 23 Citibank.
-350, Nelson.
807
00:39:26,292 --> 00:39:30,626
The chaos... it was like
a financial disco.
808
00:39:30,709 --> 00:39:33,459
interviewer:
What do you get out of this?
809
00:39:33,542 --> 00:39:35,709
The old guard,
it took 'em years and years,
810
00:39:35,792 --> 00:39:39,792
and new people on Wall Street,
they wanna do it in two days.
811
00:39:39,876 --> 00:39:44,667
The 1980s was
the reimagining of Wall Street.
812
00:39:44,751 --> 00:39:47,792
It was when there was
these swashbuckling
813
00:39:47,876 --> 00:39:51,626
financial pioneers
who were changing the game.
814
00:39:51,709 --> 00:39:55,167
♪ How does it feel ♪
815
00:39:55,250 --> 00:39:58,542
♪ To treat me like you do? ♪
816
00:39:58,626 --> 00:40:01,250
A new breed of businessman,
the corporate raider.
817
00:40:01,334 --> 00:40:02,751
Carl is the original.
818
00:40:02,834 --> 00:40:06,834
He was the guy
that reflected the '80s
819
00:40:06,918 --> 00:40:08,751
and taught everybody else
820
00:40:08,834 --> 00:40:11,292
how to do those corporate raider
takeover deals.
821
00:40:11,375 --> 00:40:13,918
reporter 1:
It all starts when
a raider finds a company
822
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,584
whose stock is selling
below its true value.
823
00:40:16,667 --> 00:40:19,417
reporter 2:
The raider moves in
and the battle begins.
824
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:23,959
To either sell the company,
sell some parts of the company,
825
00:40:24,042 --> 00:40:25,250
reimagine the company.
826
00:40:25,334 --> 00:40:28,709
And their goal is to raise
the stock price
827
00:40:28,792 --> 00:40:30,417
and make money.
828
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:31,834
♪ ♪
829
00:40:31,918 --> 00:40:33,834
Icahn is the man who's been
changing the face
830
00:40:33,918 --> 00:40:35,334
of American business.
831
00:40:35,417 --> 00:40:37,667
reporter:
Icahn raids on some big names,
832
00:40:37,751 --> 00:40:40,417
like Marshall Field,
Hammermill Paper, Dan River,
833
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:41,792
Phillips Petroleum,
834
00:40:41,876 --> 00:40:43,834
Uniroyal and ACF.
835
00:40:45,375 --> 00:40:47,000
Burrough:
Corporate raiders
836
00:40:47,083 --> 00:40:49,626
were very controversial.
837
00:40:49,709 --> 00:40:51,751
A lot of people
essentially thought
838
00:40:51,834 --> 00:40:55,459
they were glorified
shakedown artists.
839
00:40:55,542 --> 00:40:58,375
Carl: Again, I'm not doing it
because I'm Robin Hood.
840
00:40:58,459 --> 00:40:59,876
I'm doing it because of
the financial--
841
00:40:59,959 --> 00:41:01,834
absolutely because
I want the financial gain,
842
00:41:01,918 --> 00:41:04,876
but I think it's a very good
thing that I do, and more
people should do it.
843
00:41:04,959 --> 00:41:07,584
Raider?
What in the hell am I raiding?
844
00:41:07,667 --> 00:41:10,542
I'll go in here and take a big
position in the company,
845
00:41:10,626 --> 00:41:11,751
I take the risk.
846
00:41:11,834 --> 00:41:13,250
I make something happen.
847
00:41:13,334 --> 00:41:15,417
How do you identify me
as a raider?
848
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,709
Oliver Stone: When we started
to do "Wall Street" in 1987,
849
00:41:22,792 --> 00:41:25,000
we went to Icahn's office,
Stanley Weiser and I,
850
00:41:25,083 --> 00:41:26,626
who co-wrote the script with me.
851
00:41:26,709 --> 00:41:29,417
He gave us about an hour,
and it was quite interesting
852
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:32,167
because... he was arrogant,
853
00:41:32,250 --> 00:41:34,542
in the sense that
he was telling us
854
00:41:34,626 --> 00:41:36,834
about the new way
of doing things
855
00:41:36,918 --> 00:41:40,417
and how it was necessary
to attack these companies
856
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:42,292
because these are
outdated companies.
857
00:41:42,375 --> 00:41:44,167
They take profit
for the executives
858
00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:46,292
and they don't care
about the shareholders.
859
00:41:46,375 --> 00:41:48,083
You own the company.
860
00:41:48,167 --> 00:41:50,751
That's right,
you the stockholder,
861
00:41:50,834 --> 00:41:53,083
and you are all
being royally screwed over
862
00:41:53,167 --> 00:41:54,876
by these... these bureaucrats
863
00:41:54,959 --> 00:41:56,876
with their,
their steak lunches,
864
00:41:56,959 --> 00:41:58,751
their hunting
and fishing trips, their...
865
00:41:58,834 --> 00:42:00,959
their corporate jets
and golden parachutes.
866
00:42:01,042 --> 00:42:03,709
man: This is an outrage!
You're out of line, Gekko!
867
00:42:03,792 --> 00:42:06,042
Burrough:
You know, there's
a purity to that speech
868
00:42:06,125 --> 00:42:07,918
in what's wrong
with the corporate America.
869
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,876
It doesn't surprise me
that part of that famous speech
870
00:42:11,959 --> 00:42:14,626
is informed by talks
that Stone had with Carl.
871
00:42:14,709 --> 00:42:18,417
We almost have
what I consider to be
a corporate welfare state.
872
00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:22,209
You have levels and levels
of vice presidents
in corporations
873
00:42:22,292 --> 00:42:24,584
that really actually
produce nothing.
874
00:42:24,667 --> 00:42:28,959
Teldar Paper has 33
different vice presidents,
875
00:42:29,042 --> 00:42:32,375
each earning over
$200,000 a year.
876
00:42:32,459 --> 00:42:34,000
(audience members whistle)
877
00:42:34,083 --> 00:42:38,125
Now, I have spent
the last two months analyzing
878
00:42:38,209 --> 00:42:40,083
what all these guys do,
879
00:42:40,167 --> 00:42:42,792
and I still
can't figure it out.
880
00:42:42,876 --> 00:42:44,626
I couldn't figure it out,
what these people,
881
00:42:44,709 --> 00:42:46,876
taking up five floors
in New York City, did.
882
00:42:46,959 --> 00:42:49,375
-(laughter)
-That's a true story,
true story.
883
00:42:49,459 --> 00:42:53,209
The new law of evolution
in corporate America
884
00:42:53,292 --> 00:42:56,876
seems to be
survival of the unfittest.
885
00:42:56,959 --> 00:43:00,334
I believe it's anti-Darwinian,
survival of the unfittest.
886
00:43:00,417 --> 00:43:03,000
Well, in my book,
you either do it right
887
00:43:03,083 --> 00:43:04,542
or you get eliminated.
888
00:43:04,626 --> 00:43:06,542
Stone:
Of course, there is
some truth to that,
889
00:43:06,626 --> 00:43:09,709
but nonetheless, Gordon Gekko
is out for himself.
890
00:43:09,792 --> 00:43:12,417
He's for personal profit
over public profit.
891
00:43:12,500 --> 00:43:16,334
So Gekko is half right
and he's half wrong.
892
00:43:16,417 --> 00:43:18,667
Burrough:
As time went on
893
00:43:18,751 --> 00:43:20,375
with the insider
trading scandals,
894
00:43:20,459 --> 00:43:23,042
the feeling was,
"Oh, you know, right.
895
00:43:23,125 --> 00:43:25,125
These guys really are
just shakedown artists."
896
00:43:25,209 --> 00:43:29,042
But Carl Icahn was not known
as an insider trader,
897
00:43:29,125 --> 00:43:32,626
and suddenly he emerged
from this pack
898
00:43:32,709 --> 00:43:34,709
of patrolling sharks
899
00:43:34,792 --> 00:43:38,959
and began to be capital-C Carl
capital-I Icahn.
900
00:43:39,042 --> 00:43:41,667
♪ ♪
901
00:43:41,751 --> 00:43:44,292
Carl was possessing
an intellect,
902
00:43:44,375 --> 00:43:48,500
a focus,
and a sustained drive
903
00:43:48,584 --> 00:43:50,334
that was unusual.
904
00:43:54,792 --> 00:43:56,209
And one of the signature deals,
905
00:43:56,292 --> 00:43:59,125
one of the most involved,
was Texaco,
906
00:43:59,209 --> 00:44:02,959
in which Carl, uh,
played a starring role.
907
00:44:03,042 --> 00:44:05,876
emcee: A household name,
please welcome Carl Icahn.
908
00:44:05,959 --> 00:44:07,375
Thank you, thank you.
909
00:44:07,459 --> 00:44:10,250
I'm telling you,
these stories are funnier
910
00:44:10,334 --> 00:44:12,292
than the jokes you could tell,
'cause this really,
911
00:44:12,375 --> 00:44:14,209
I'll give you another one
that really happened.
912
00:44:14,292 --> 00:44:17,459
And I talked to this guy today,
he said I could tell it.
913
00:44:17,542 --> 00:44:19,626
We were taking over Texaco.
914
00:44:19,709 --> 00:44:22,334
(percussive music playing)
915
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,959
(acoustic guitar playing)
916
00:44:35,834 --> 00:44:38,876
♪ Ooh, there's gold ♪
917
00:44:38,959 --> 00:44:43,209
♪ Coming out of the ground ♪
918
00:44:43,292 --> 00:44:45,250
♪ There's gold there ♪
919
00:44:45,334 --> 00:44:47,834
♪ To be found ♪
920
00:44:47,918 --> 00:44:49,125
♪ The oil train... ♪
921
00:44:49,209 --> 00:44:50,584
Burrough:
Texaco was, you know,
922
00:44:50,667 --> 00:44:52,250
one of
the fabled Seven Sisters.
923
00:44:52,334 --> 00:44:55,042
It began as the Texas Company
outside Beaumont, Texas,
924
00:44:55,125 --> 00:44:59,000
and it was the fifth largest
company in America
when this all started.
925
00:44:59,083 --> 00:45:04,542
♪ There's money coming
out of the ground ♪
926
00:45:04,626 --> 00:45:08,792
♪ There's tons of money
running 'round ♪
927
00:45:11,626 --> 00:45:17,000
This all began as a fairly
plain vanilla takeover.
928
00:45:17,083 --> 00:45:20,626
One medium-size oil company,
Pennzoil in Houston,
929
00:45:20,709 --> 00:45:24,292
goes after another one,
Getty in Los Angeles.
930
00:45:24,375 --> 00:45:26,334
So the deal is done,
931
00:45:26,417 --> 00:45:27,751
when out of nowhere,
932
00:45:27,834 --> 00:45:29,000
Texaco swoops in
933
00:45:29,083 --> 00:45:31,667
and snatches Getty
away from Pennzoil.
934
00:45:31,751 --> 00:45:33,459
reporter:
The amount boggles the mind.
935
00:45:33,542 --> 00:45:36,125
$10 billion offered by Texaco
936
00:45:36,209 --> 00:45:38,375
and accepted by Getty Oil
in principle
937
00:45:38,459 --> 00:45:41,375
to accomplish the largest
merger in corporate history.
938
00:45:41,459 --> 00:45:44,209
♪ ♪
939
00:45:44,292 --> 00:45:46,542
Burrough:
Pennzoil CEO Hugh Liedtke
940
00:45:46,626 --> 00:45:49,167
was fit to be tied.
He was gonna get Getty.
941
00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:52,250
He was gonna go to war,
and it became a war
942
00:45:52,334 --> 00:45:56,459
really unlike anything else in,
on Wall Street in the '80s.
943
00:45:56,542 --> 00:45:58,375
There just had never been
anything like it.
944
00:45:58,459 --> 00:45:59,918
♪ There's blood coming ♪
945
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,167
♪ Out of the ground ♪
946
00:46:03,250 --> 00:46:04,542
♪ There's blood... ♪
947
00:46:04,626 --> 00:46:06,626
analyst:
You know, it is a soap opera.
948
00:46:06,709 --> 00:46:08,834
You have
the classic ingredients.
949
00:46:08,918 --> 00:46:11,500
You have greed on one side
and fear and loathing
on the other.
950
00:46:11,584 --> 00:46:13,334
♪ There's blood... ♪
951
00:46:13,417 --> 00:46:16,375
Burrough: Pennzoil's CEO
went and hired a lawyer
952
00:46:16,459 --> 00:46:17,959
named Joe Jamail in Houston,
953
00:46:18,042 --> 00:46:20,375
who is a very different
type of fella.
954
00:46:20,459 --> 00:46:24,334
(upbeat music playing)
955
00:46:24,417 --> 00:46:26,751
Wilbur Ross:
Jamail was famous.
956
00:46:26,834 --> 00:46:28,709
He wore snakeskin boots,
957
00:46:28,792 --> 00:46:32,292
big pointy toes,
flew in his own private jet.
958
00:46:32,375 --> 00:46:36,375
He was
a larger-than-life character.
959
00:46:36,459 --> 00:46:40,209
Burrough: Joe came from
the world of personal
injury lawyers,
960
00:46:40,292 --> 00:46:42,959
and the only way he gets
paid back is if he wins.
961
00:46:43,042 --> 00:46:46,167
So no one had more at stake
in this than Joe Jamail.
962
00:46:46,250 --> 00:46:48,417
This is a totally
irresponsible act,
963
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:52,125
and, uh, one more sleaze move
that they're gonna slide in.
964
00:46:52,209 --> 00:46:54,667
Texaco, they go down there
and they say,
965
00:46:54,751 --> 00:46:56,417
"We're not going
to dignify this case."
966
00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:57,959
And Jamail loves that
967
00:46:58,042 --> 00:47:00,834
'cause his jury
are all his cousins
and stuff up there...
968
00:47:00,918 --> 00:47:02,459
And so Jamail
loves that stuff.
969
00:47:02,542 --> 00:47:06,459
And Joe Jamail was as good
at orchestrating
970
00:47:06,542 --> 00:47:08,375
the goings on
in a Texas courtroom
971
00:47:08,459 --> 00:47:10,542
as anybody that's
ever walked the Earth.
972
00:47:10,626 --> 00:47:14,167
reporter: Here in Texas,
they're calling it
the showdown in the courtroom.
973
00:47:14,250 --> 00:47:16,125
(gavel banging)
974
00:47:18,167 --> 00:47:20,918
And Wall Street traders have
observers in the courtroom
975
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,209
with cellular phones
talking to New York.
976
00:47:24,292 --> 00:47:27,209
reporter 2: When the jury
returned its unanimous verdict,
977
00:47:27,292 --> 00:47:29,417
Pennzoil and Jamail
emerged victorious,
978
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:32,334
the winner of the largest
jury verdict in history.
979
00:47:32,417 --> 00:47:34,918
A Texas jury has ordered
the Texaco corporation
980
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,209
to pay more than $10.5 billion
to Pennzoil.
981
00:47:38,292 --> 00:47:42,918
reporter: And would have
to start paying interest
on that amount immediately.
982
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,918
Peter Jennings:
The biggest bankruptcy
in American history.
983
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,375
Texaco Inc.
filed for protection...
984
00:47:49,459 --> 00:47:51,375
reporter: It was a decision
of last resort,
985
00:47:51,459 --> 00:47:53,375
said Texaco president
James Kinnear,
986
00:47:53,459 --> 00:47:55,500
to file for court
bankruptcy protection
987
00:47:55,584 --> 00:47:58,292
in order to prevent Texaco
from collapsing entirely.
988
00:47:58,375 --> 00:48:02,083
The CEO of Texaco, Jim Kinnear,
989
00:48:02,167 --> 00:48:04,334
went absolutely berserk
990
00:48:04,417 --> 00:48:06,834
and in my view
991
00:48:06,918 --> 00:48:08,459
was recklessly willing
992
00:48:08,542 --> 00:48:10,250
to gamble the whole company.
993
00:48:10,334 --> 00:48:14,459
reporter: The value of Texaco
stock has taken a nosedive.
994
00:48:14,542 --> 00:48:17,209
Most of us thought, you know,
it actually did look like
995
00:48:17,292 --> 00:48:18,792
Texaco could go under.
996
00:48:18,876 --> 00:48:22,417
And I think the only person
who thought it might not
997
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:23,751
was Carl Icahn.
998
00:48:23,834 --> 00:48:25,751
Carl:
You have to buy things
999
00:48:25,834 --> 00:48:28,542
where the rest of the world
are looking at you
1000
00:48:28,626 --> 00:48:30,334
and thinking you're
a little bit crazy.
1001
00:48:30,417 --> 00:48:31,751
You're going
against the trend.
1002
00:48:31,834 --> 00:48:35,334
A lot of times,
events are overblown.
1003
00:48:35,417 --> 00:48:38,459
Overblown on the good side,
overblown on the bad side.
1004
00:48:38,542 --> 00:48:41,167
My instincts looked Texaco
1005
00:48:41,250 --> 00:48:43,417
as a really good
fundamental company.
1006
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:44,751
This thing is dirt cheap.
1007
00:48:44,834 --> 00:48:46,667
I took a shot
and bought all that stock
1008
00:48:46,751 --> 00:48:48,667
'cause I knew
they had to get rational,
1009
00:48:48,751 --> 00:48:50,500
and I was going to get
instrumental in it.
1010
00:48:50,584 --> 00:48:54,918
(phone ringing)
1011
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,417
Jamail calls me up
and he says, you know,
1012
00:48:58,500 --> 00:49:00,834
(southern accent):
"You're a sensible man.
1013
00:49:00,918 --> 00:49:03,542
I wanna come talk to you.
You own a lot of stock."
1014
00:49:03,626 --> 00:49:05,125
(normal voice):
And he calls me "boy."
1015
00:49:05,209 --> 00:49:06,792
"You got a lot riding
on this, boy."
1016
00:49:06,876 --> 00:49:09,042
But before he came,
I called Kinnear.
1017
00:49:09,125 --> 00:49:10,459
(line ringing)
1018
00:49:10,542 --> 00:49:11,918
I get Jim on the phone.
1019
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,167
You know, he says,
"I'm not talking to anybody,
1020
00:49:14,250 --> 00:49:17,876
and I'm not making
any settlement offer,
and that's it."
1021
00:49:17,959 --> 00:49:21,292
I said, "Okay,
I want you to do this,
so just listen to me.
1022
00:49:21,375 --> 00:49:24,667
"I'm gonna start
with numbers from 12 down.
1023
00:49:24,751 --> 00:49:26,167
"12, 11, 10, Jim?
1024
00:49:26,250 --> 00:49:29,250
"And when you get to the number
that you will settle for
1025
00:49:29,334 --> 00:49:31,959
"and accept to get this fuckin'
thing over with,
1026
00:49:32,042 --> 00:49:35,209
all you gotta do is say
'okay' and hang up."
1027
00:49:35,292 --> 00:49:38,959
So I started, "12, 11, 10, 9..."
1028
00:49:39,042 --> 00:49:42,209
I get to 3, he says "okay"
and hangs up.
1029
00:49:42,292 --> 00:49:44,709
So now I know
he would do it for 3.
1030
00:49:46,959 --> 00:49:50,209
So now Jamail
walks in with Liedtke,
1031
00:49:50,292 --> 00:49:51,667
and Jamail says...
1032
00:49:56,584 --> 00:49:59,042
I said, "Come on, this is
the biggest bullshit case
1033
00:49:59,125 --> 00:50:00,667
I've ever seen,
so stop the bullshit."
1034
00:50:00,751 --> 00:50:05,542
So he goes, "We would settle
this case for $10 billion."
1035
00:50:05,626 --> 00:50:07,083
So I say, "You know, Joe,
1036
00:50:07,167 --> 00:50:09,918
you ain't never gonna get
$10 billion so forget it."
1037
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,959
And Liedtke gets up, irate,
you know.
1038
00:50:12,042 --> 00:50:15,125
It's a little bit of an act,
and he says, "I'm leavin',"
1039
00:50:15,209 --> 00:50:17,083
and the two of them
start walking out.
1040
00:50:17,167 --> 00:50:20,375
Jamail turns around
as he gets to the door.
1041
00:50:20,459 --> 00:50:21,876
He says, "You know..."
1042
00:50:26,542 --> 00:50:28,167
"Let's you and I
go have a drink."
1043
00:50:28,250 --> 00:50:30,125
I said, "It's 10:30
in the morning.
1044
00:50:30,209 --> 00:50:33,000
I'm here on Sixth Avenue.
Where the hell am I
going to have a drink?"
1045
00:50:33,083 --> 00:50:36,375
♪ ♪
1046
00:50:36,459 --> 00:50:39,709
So now we go out,
walking on Sixth Avenue.
1047
00:50:39,792 --> 00:50:41,959
And the Parker Meridian,
we walk in there,
1048
00:50:42,042 --> 00:50:44,751
and it was like, you know,
they weren't ready
for lunch yet
1049
00:50:44,834 --> 00:50:46,959
and they had all the chairs
on the tables and all.
1050
00:50:47,042 --> 00:50:48,584
But I know
the maître d' a little.
1051
00:50:48,667 --> 00:50:51,083
I said, "I wanna have a drink."
He said, "We're not open."
1052
00:50:51,167 --> 00:50:53,667
I said, "Just take
those two chairs off the table
1053
00:50:53,751 --> 00:50:55,876
and bring me a bottle of vodka."
1054
00:50:55,959 --> 00:50:57,626
And that's it.
1055
00:50:57,709 --> 00:51:01,584
And Jamail sits down,
he's taking the vodka.
So he goes...
1056
00:51:08,500 --> 00:51:10,250
I said, "Don't even negotiate."
He said,
1057
00:51:10,334 --> 00:51:12,876
"Well, you know we ain't takin'
less than nine billion."
1058
00:51:12,959 --> 00:51:14,751
He's now down to nine
or something.
1059
00:51:14,834 --> 00:51:16,542
I said, "Do you want the number,
1060
00:51:16,626 --> 00:51:18,125
or you wanna just bullshit?"
1061
00:51:18,209 --> 00:51:20,000
He looks at me
and he goes...
1062
00:51:28,375 --> 00:51:30,167
I said, "Yeah, I think I know."
1063
00:51:30,250 --> 00:51:32,334
I said,
"There's no negotiating.
1064
00:51:32,417 --> 00:51:34,500
The number is $3 billion."
1065
00:51:34,584 --> 00:51:37,751
He looks at me and he goes,
takes his hand...
1066
00:51:49,876 --> 00:51:52,125
♪ ♪
1067
00:51:52,209 --> 00:51:53,709
And I said, "Okay."
1068
00:51:53,792 --> 00:51:56,459
And now he's sitting there
and he's drinking the vodka,
1069
00:51:56,542 --> 00:51:58,834
and he's laughing,
he's got the Stetson hat.
1070
00:51:58,918 --> 00:52:00,459
And all these people
are coming in now.
1071
00:52:00,542 --> 00:52:02,334
I say, "So, let me ask you
a question, Joe."
1072
00:52:02,417 --> 00:52:05,042
I say, "The way I figure it,
you just made yourself
1073
00:52:05,125 --> 00:52:07,500
$600 million
for three weeks' work."
1074
00:52:07,584 --> 00:52:09,918
"Yes, I did, yes, I did.
1075
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,626
"You're right,
you're good at math.
1076
00:52:11,709 --> 00:52:14,209
"$600 million," he smiled.
People are listening now.
1077
00:52:14,292 --> 00:52:17,209
You know, all well-dressed
people looking at this guy
1078
00:52:17,292 --> 00:52:19,209
with his feet up on the table.
1079
00:52:19,292 --> 00:52:21,334
I said, "Well, what good works
are you gonna do?"
1080
00:52:21,417 --> 00:52:22,792
"What you mean 'good works'?"
1081
00:52:22,876 --> 00:52:26,209
I said, "Soup kitchen,
you know, medical research."
1082
00:52:26,292 --> 00:52:28,042
"I'll tell you what I'm
gonna do with the money.
1083
00:52:28,125 --> 00:52:30,083
"I'll tell you what..."
and he did it.
1084
00:52:30,167 --> 00:52:32,667
"I'm gonna buy pussy!"
1085
00:52:32,751 --> 00:52:35,751
-(crowd laughing)
-"I'm gonna buy pussy!"
1086
00:52:35,834 --> 00:52:37,626
The headwaiter
comes running over,
1087
00:52:37,709 --> 00:52:39,334
headwater comes running over
and says,
1088
00:52:39,417 --> 00:52:41,500
"You know, Mr. Icahn,
I think you better leave."
1089
00:52:41,584 --> 00:52:43,459
-I say, "Yeah."
-(laughter)
1090
00:52:43,542 --> 00:52:45,417
That's it, and I left.
That was it.
1091
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:47,667
(applause)
1092
00:52:47,751 --> 00:52:50,417
A multibillion-dollar
settlement early today,
1093
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:53,083
the largest legal settlement
in this country's history.
1094
00:52:53,167 --> 00:52:55,083
reporter: Texaco has agreed
to pay Pennzoil
1095
00:52:55,167 --> 00:52:58,125
a staggering $3 billion
to settle a court case.
1096
00:53:01,125 --> 00:53:03,667
Stephen Labaton:
Carl walked into this situation
1097
00:53:03,751 --> 00:53:07,417
and basically forced
a settlement down Texaco.
1098
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:09,918
Carl was not done
after the settlement.
1099
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,209
He saw
continued potential value
1100
00:53:12,292 --> 00:53:14,125
and made a pretty hefty profit.
1101
00:53:14,209 --> 00:53:16,250
I think it was around
$600 million
1102
00:53:16,334 --> 00:53:18,167
that he made
on that transaction.
1103
00:53:18,250 --> 00:53:20,709
Jennings:
On Wall Street today,
the trading was heavy.
1104
00:53:20,792 --> 00:53:23,125
One reason: the sale
of a huge block of Texaco,
1105
00:53:23,209 --> 00:53:26,167
42 million shares
worth $2 billion.
1106
00:53:26,250 --> 00:53:28,125
That is the biggest single trade
ever on Wall Street.
1107
00:53:28,209 --> 00:53:31,209
The seller is believed to be
the takeover specialist
Carl Icahn.
1108
00:53:31,292 --> 00:53:32,918
Let me show you something.
1109
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,209
You can use this.
This is sort of
something for ya.
1110
00:53:36,292 --> 00:53:38,459
So... (laughs)
1111
00:53:38,542 --> 00:53:40,667
This is sort of one
of my favorite pictures.
1112
00:53:40,751 --> 00:53:43,876
Look. This was sent to me
by Joe Jamail.
1113
00:53:43,959 --> 00:53:47,792
And, you see, this is the way
he was in the restaurant,
1114
00:53:47,876 --> 00:53:49,334
when we talked about it.
1115
00:53:49,417 --> 00:53:51,125
You see the shoes.
1116
00:53:51,209 --> 00:53:53,292
And he was a real character.
1117
00:53:53,375 --> 00:53:55,584
And he writes, "Friend Carl,
1118
00:53:55,667 --> 00:53:56,751
shit happens."
1119
00:53:56,834 --> 00:53:59,125
"Joe Jamail."
1120
00:53:59,209 --> 00:54:01,125
So I keep this around.
1121
00:54:04,292 --> 00:54:07,083
(tranquil music playing)
1122
00:54:07,167 --> 00:54:09,250
When I started out,
1123
00:54:09,334 --> 00:54:12,709
I learned the hard way,
1124
00:54:12,792 --> 00:54:17,500
playing the market,
it's a competitive area,
it's gambling.
1125
00:54:17,584 --> 00:54:21,375
Too many variables, too many
people competing with you.
1126
00:54:21,459 --> 00:54:26,292
You can't believe that
the gambling will carry you.
1127
00:54:26,375 --> 00:54:32,709
♪ ♪
1128
00:54:32,792 --> 00:54:36,417
So, you look for something
I call a "no-brainer."
1129
00:54:36,500 --> 00:54:39,042
Very little risk,
but a lot of reward.
1130
00:54:39,125 --> 00:54:41,876
After a while, it becomes
somewhat instinctive,
1131
00:54:41,959 --> 00:54:46,542
that you see something
that's not really apparent
to everyone.
1132
00:54:46,626 --> 00:54:48,709
♪ ♪
1133
00:54:57,167 --> 00:54:59,876
But there's tough times
when you're not gonna enjoy it.
1134
00:54:59,959 --> 00:55:02,375
You know, you're gonna lose
and you gotta be
willing to say,
1135
00:55:02,459 --> 00:55:03,876
"Hey, if I lose, so what?"
1136
00:55:03,959 --> 00:55:07,292
It's like that great
Rudyard Kipling poem.
1137
00:55:07,375 --> 00:55:10,792
"If you can meet
with Triumph and Disaster
1138
00:55:10,876 --> 00:55:15,209
and treat those two impostors
just the same..."
1139
00:55:15,292 --> 00:55:16,918
That's important.
1140
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,250
♪ ♪
1141
00:55:26,042 --> 00:55:30,167
But you have to have
a passion for it.
1142
00:55:30,250 --> 00:55:33,000
You get a great feeling
when you find a company,
1143
00:55:33,083 --> 00:55:35,292
when you find something
you can do.
1144
00:55:35,375 --> 00:55:36,918
You get excited by it.
1145
00:55:37,042 --> 00:55:40,083
And by instinct now,
something goes "click,"
1146
00:55:40,167 --> 00:55:42,083
and you know it's good.
1147
00:55:42,167 --> 00:55:44,250
It all sums up
in that movie "The Hustler,"
1148
00:55:44,334 --> 00:55:48,417
where, when he shoots
the ball, he says...
1149
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:50,334
You know,
I got a hunch, fat man.
1150
00:55:50,417 --> 00:55:52,709
I got a hunch
it's me from here on in.
1151
00:55:53,918 --> 00:55:55,542
One ball, corner pocket.
1152
00:55:57,042 --> 00:55:58,959
I mean,
that ever happen to you,
1153
00:55:59,042 --> 00:56:02,125
where all of a sudden,
you feel like you can't miss?
1154
00:56:05,584 --> 00:56:09,083
When I hear the click,
I know I won.
1155
00:56:12,375 --> 00:56:14,542
(rhythmic percussion
music playing)
1156
00:56:20,459 --> 00:56:23,709
♪ Leading the way ♪
1157
00:56:23,792 --> 00:56:26,375
announcer:
TWA presents the difference
1158
00:56:26,459 --> 00:56:28,584
between getting you
where you're going
1159
00:56:28,667 --> 00:56:30,709
and leading the way.
1160
00:56:30,792 --> 00:56:32,459
(upbeat music playing)
1161
00:56:32,542 --> 00:56:33,792
What's that?
1162
00:56:33,876 --> 00:56:35,334
-(reporters laughing)
-What was that?
1163
00:56:35,417 --> 00:56:38,292
man: Waiting for
the equipment to warm up.
1164
00:56:38,375 --> 00:56:41,334
I see you have problems
with equipment as we do.
1165
00:56:41,417 --> 00:56:43,250
Uh...
1166
00:56:43,334 --> 00:56:45,125
I thank you all for coming.
1167
00:56:45,209 --> 00:56:47,209
I'd just like to say that, uh,
1168
00:56:47,292 --> 00:56:50,083
we're doing quite well
with our scheduling.
1169
00:56:50,167 --> 00:56:53,709
TWA, I can tell you now
for sure, is here to stay.
1170
00:56:53,792 --> 00:56:58,209
(somber music playing)
1171
00:57:07,125 --> 00:57:10,834
Burrough:
This was an awful time
in the airline business.
1172
00:57:10,918 --> 00:57:13,250
And a lot of these companies
were under fire,
1173
00:57:13,334 --> 00:57:15,459
were the focus
of corporate raiders.
1174
00:57:15,542 --> 00:57:17,417
And when this fella,
Frank Lorenzo,
1175
00:57:17,500 --> 00:57:19,584
goes after TWA...
1176
00:57:21,417 --> 00:57:24,292
he was deeply, deeply
unpopular in the business.
1177
00:57:24,375 --> 00:57:27,459
Show me a business person
that doesn't like a monopoly
1178
00:57:27,542 --> 00:57:29,125
and I'll show you a big liar.
1179
00:57:29,209 --> 00:57:30,959
-(audience laughing)
-Okay?
1180
00:57:31,042 --> 00:57:34,876
reporter: Lorenzo was known
for being tough on unions.
1181
00:57:34,959 --> 00:57:36,834
Burrough:
So, at TWA,
1182
00:57:36,918 --> 00:57:39,375
the unions actually
went to Carl.
1183
00:57:41,292 --> 00:57:43,042
Carl:
So they all met with me.
1184
00:57:43,125 --> 00:57:44,542
They really wanted me to come in
1185
00:57:44,626 --> 00:57:47,292
because they needed somebody
to fight off Lorenzo.
1186
00:57:47,375 --> 00:57:49,959
announcer:
Today's TWA is the new spirit
1187
00:57:50,042 --> 00:57:52,083
and vitality of our people.
1188
00:57:52,167 --> 00:57:55,834
So they said, "We'll give you
huge concessions if you do it."
1189
00:57:55,918 --> 00:57:58,125
So I looked at the numbers
and said, "Yeah,
1190
00:57:58,209 --> 00:58:00,292
"if you guys give
these concessions,
1191
00:58:00,375 --> 00:58:02,751
you could just save
a lot of capital here."
1192
00:58:02,834 --> 00:58:04,876
(music box playing)
1193
00:58:08,083 --> 00:58:10,876
The staff gave me
this toy plane
1194
00:58:10,959 --> 00:58:12,876
to commemorate the TWA deal.
1195
00:58:12,959 --> 00:58:15,751
(music box playing)
1196
00:58:17,918 --> 00:58:23,417
Carl Icahn takes control
and is now running TWA.
1197
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:26,083
Carl Icahn,
the controversial financier
1198
00:58:26,167 --> 00:58:28,751
known for his attacks
on corporate management.
1199
00:58:28,834 --> 00:58:31,375
Now they will be watching
to see how he himself
1200
00:58:31,459 --> 00:58:33,626
handles the management
of a major corporation.
1201
00:58:33,709 --> 00:58:35,417
♪ ♪
1202
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:37,709
Wapner: Carl had never
run anything before.
1203
00:58:37,792 --> 00:58:40,250
Certainly nothing
like an airline.
1204
00:58:40,334 --> 00:58:42,125
You're dealing with the economy,
1205
00:58:42,209 --> 00:58:43,751
you're dealing with unions,
1206
00:58:43,834 --> 00:58:47,209
and that was his biggest fight
right off the bat.
1207
00:58:47,292 --> 00:58:49,709
We want a TWA that can exist
and it will exist
1208
00:58:49,792 --> 00:58:52,459
because all the employees
have come behind us.
1209
00:58:52,542 --> 00:58:54,167
The employees have given.
1210
00:58:54,250 --> 00:58:56,834
When it came time
to give the concessions,
1211
00:58:56,918 --> 00:59:01,542
the pilots lived up
to their bargain
and so did the machinists,
1212
00:59:01,626 --> 00:59:03,375
and then the flight attendants,
Vicki Frankovich,
1213
00:59:03,459 --> 00:59:05,834
comes in and says,
"We can't do it."
1214
00:59:08,375 --> 00:59:12,667
Carl Icahn came in and demanded
changes in everything.
1215
00:59:12,751 --> 00:59:14,626
She said,
"You got enough, it's too bad."
1216
00:59:14,709 --> 00:59:17,417
I said, "Bullshit. You made
a deal, you got to stick to it."
1217
00:59:21,667 --> 00:59:24,876
striker:
Carl Icahn not fair
to flight attendants!
1218
00:59:24,959 --> 00:59:28,083
Fifteen days into the strike
by TWA flight attendants,
1219
00:59:28,167 --> 00:59:32,000
there is no sign of
conciliation by either side.
1220
00:59:32,083 --> 00:59:35,209
At issue, company-proposed
wage rollbacks.
1221
00:59:35,292 --> 00:59:38,667
TWA employees confronting
a bottom-line businessman.
1222
00:59:38,751 --> 00:59:40,709
The work rules
we must have to survive.
1223
00:59:40,792 --> 00:59:42,292
We are not asking
for very much.
1224
00:59:42,375 --> 00:59:44,751
The changes he's asking
are drastic.
1225
00:59:44,834 --> 00:59:46,292
Carl: This company
would have been bankrupt
1226
00:59:46,375 --> 00:59:48,292
if I hadn't come along
and saved the damn thing.
1227
00:59:48,375 --> 00:59:50,584
Carl Icahn
is a corporate raider.
1228
00:59:50,667 --> 00:59:52,250
♪ TWA ♪
1229
00:59:52,334 --> 00:59:55,000
You know, literally they'd say,
"We got you by the balls,
1230
00:59:55,083 --> 00:59:58,292
the great Mr. Icahn,
because you need us to fly."
1231
00:59:58,375 --> 01:00:01,209
♪ ♪
1232
01:00:01,292 --> 01:00:03,334
So, what I thought of is this,
I said, "Wait a minute,
1233
01:00:03,417 --> 01:00:05,834
why can't we just bring in
new flight attendants?"
1234
01:00:05,918 --> 01:00:08,209
"Oh, because they gotta
be licensed."
1235
01:00:08,292 --> 01:00:10,626
-(alert chimes)
-(air hisses)
1236
01:00:10,709 --> 01:00:13,834
I said, "Set up a school
for flight attendants."
1237
01:00:13,918 --> 01:00:15,459
"Eh, I don't know.
1238
01:00:15,542 --> 01:00:17,751
We can't do that."
I said, "Well, why not?"
1239
01:00:17,834 --> 01:00:19,042
"Nobody ever did that."
1240
01:00:19,125 --> 01:00:20,918
I said, "Set up
the goddamn school,"
1241
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,292
and from all over the country,
I couldn't believe it,
1242
01:00:23,375 --> 01:00:25,334
all these people want
to be flight attendants.
1243
01:00:25,417 --> 01:00:28,083
And then Frankovich
now goes crazy.
1244
01:00:28,167 --> 01:00:31,083
She sees all this happening.
1245
01:00:31,167 --> 01:00:34,709
striker: The flight attendants
are out here today because
they want to show Carl Icahn
1246
01:00:34,792 --> 01:00:37,500
that we are still united
and we're still determined
to win this battle.
1247
01:00:37,584 --> 01:00:41,542
We're holding together better
than any other union I know
that has struck in the past.
1248
01:00:41,626 --> 01:00:44,876
Some woman down the road
calls me up, panicked.
1249
01:00:44,959 --> 01:00:47,167
"There are a thousand people
walking up the road,
1250
01:00:47,250 --> 01:00:48,459
chanting and screaming."
1251
01:00:48,542 --> 01:00:50,167
"What's going on, Carl?"
you know.
1252
01:00:50,250 --> 01:00:53,167
She says,
"I'm calling the police.
I'm calling the police."
1253
01:00:53,250 --> 01:00:54,751
(siren wails)
1254
01:00:54,834 --> 01:00:57,918
(intense music playing)
1255
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,250
(strikers chanting)
1256
01:01:00,334 --> 01:01:03,459
reporter:
These flight attendants
took the unusual step
1257
01:01:03,542 --> 01:01:05,459
of taking their case
right to the home
1258
01:01:05,542 --> 01:01:07,709
of TWA chairman Carl Icahn.
1259
01:01:14,959 --> 01:01:17,042
I said, "Bullshit," and I went
out there with the kids.
1260
01:01:17,125 --> 01:01:19,334
"You're not taking the kids."
I said, "I'm taking the kids."
1261
01:01:27,834 --> 01:01:29,584
striker:
Here's the lies right here,
1262
01:01:29,667 --> 01:01:30,959
our new work rules.
1263
01:01:31,042 --> 01:01:34,125
(strikers complaining)
1264
01:01:34,209 --> 01:01:36,042
Well, that's what...
this is, this is...
1265
01:01:36,125 --> 01:01:38,083
You know, I can't...
You're being a little...
1266
01:01:38,167 --> 01:01:40,292
-woman: Quiet, let him talk.
-Carl: You've got an airline
1267
01:01:40,375 --> 01:01:42,500
that's losing
200 million bucks in '85
1268
01:01:42,584 --> 01:01:44,709
and it's losing a lot
in this quarter...
1269
01:01:44,792 --> 01:01:48,042
(strikers drowning out Icahn)
1270
01:01:48,125 --> 01:01:49,375
'Cause we can't compete.
1271
01:01:49,459 --> 01:01:51,542
-Can I finish?
-(strikers clamoring)
1272
01:01:51,626 --> 01:01:53,751
You wanna listen?
You come to my home
on a Saturday,
1273
01:01:53,834 --> 01:01:55,709
I've still
come out here to talk to you,
1274
01:01:55,792 --> 01:01:57,459
and I want--
and I think you should
give me the courtesy
1275
01:01:57,542 --> 01:01:59,209
to listen
as long as I'm talking to you.
1276
01:01:59,292 --> 01:02:00,459
-man: That's fair.
-Miss Frankovich
1277
01:02:00,542 --> 01:02:02,125
should have come
to that meeting in August,
1278
01:02:02,209 --> 01:02:03,417
you don't like to hear it,
1279
01:02:03,500 --> 01:02:05,083
because at that time
I could have got financing.
1280
01:02:05,167 --> 01:02:06,334
I told her I need
three people there,
1281
01:02:06,417 --> 01:02:07,626
she says,
"I'm going to a party,"
1282
01:02:07,709 --> 01:02:10,459
-and that's the truth of it.
-(crowd clamoring)
1283
01:02:10,542 --> 01:02:13,375
-I'm telling you what happened.
You don't wanna hear it.
-man: Cheap shot.
1284
01:02:13,459 --> 01:02:16,209
-That's a cheap shot.
-Carl: Now, let me finish up.
1285
01:02:16,292 --> 01:02:18,292
Could I? Then you can talk.
Instead of yelling.
1286
01:02:18,375 --> 01:02:21,375
-You're brainwashed.
-man: No, we are reasonable.
1287
01:02:21,459 --> 01:02:23,292
I mean this.
I am not here to hurt you.
1288
01:02:23,375 --> 01:02:25,876
I think a lot of people
are getting wrong
information from her.
1289
01:02:25,959 --> 01:02:28,042
I'm getting a lot of calls from
a lot of flight attendants,
1290
01:02:28,125 --> 01:02:30,250
say they'd love to come back,
they're being
intimidated by her...
1291
01:02:30,334 --> 01:02:33,042
-that they're being
scared by her.
-strikers: No!
1292
01:02:33,125 --> 01:02:35,417
-man: That's not true.
-(strikers clamoring)
1293
01:02:35,500 --> 01:02:38,459
(chuckles) That is good.
1294
01:02:38,542 --> 01:02:41,334
Yeah, I remember that.
1295
01:02:41,417 --> 01:02:43,626
I wanna keep that,
that's a good clip.
1296
01:02:43,709 --> 01:02:45,292
Show that to my grandchildren.
1297
01:02:45,375 --> 01:02:48,083
I have a whole group
that's willing to meet.
She says she wants me there.
1298
01:02:48,167 --> 01:02:51,417
You can't force me
to like somebody, okay?
I don't like dealing with her.
1299
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:55,250
Okay? Because she lies.
But that doesn't mean I don't
have a whole group of people
1300
01:02:55,334 --> 01:02:57,083
that are there
qualified to talk to her.
1301
01:02:57,167 --> 01:02:59,751
We're willing to talk.
I don't wanna be there with her.
1302
01:03:01,584 --> 01:03:03,000
It was sort of exciting.
1303
01:03:03,083 --> 01:03:05,959
(strikers jeering)
1304
01:03:06,042 --> 01:03:07,459
Carl: The strikers
didn't understand.
1305
01:03:07,542 --> 01:03:09,042
Frankovich told them
a lot of bullshit.
1306
01:03:09,125 --> 01:03:11,209
And a lot of them
agreed with me.
1307
01:03:11,292 --> 01:03:13,375
After a week,
she pulled them off,
1308
01:03:13,459 --> 01:03:15,334
she wouldn't let them come
to my house anymore
1309
01:03:15,417 --> 01:03:17,584
'cause they were all
now complaining to her.
1310
01:03:19,334 --> 01:03:21,626
Wapner:
I don't know if Carl expected
1311
01:03:21,709 --> 01:03:24,083
that he was gonna have
this kind of turbulence
1312
01:03:24,167 --> 01:03:25,626
right off the bat.
1313
01:03:25,709 --> 01:03:27,083
I think he would tell you
he thought he was
1314
01:03:27,167 --> 01:03:29,959
fighting the good fight,
and yet what he was doing
1315
01:03:30,042 --> 01:03:32,250
played into every stereotype
1316
01:03:32,334 --> 01:03:34,709
of the evil Wall Street
financier.
1317
01:03:34,792 --> 01:03:37,000
The companies
that he leaves behind
1318
01:03:37,083 --> 01:03:38,459
incur a tremendous
amount of debt
1319
01:03:38,542 --> 01:03:40,292
and then they
start laying off,
1320
01:03:40,375 --> 01:03:41,918
and that's more
and more Americans
1321
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:43,250
falling below
the poverty line.
1322
01:03:43,334 --> 01:03:45,626
I've been seeing
a counselor since the strike
1323
01:03:45,709 --> 01:03:48,667
because it is emotionally
devastating to have lost...
1324
01:03:48,751 --> 01:03:50,959
I mean, I've been a flight
attendant my entire adult life.
1325
01:03:51,042 --> 01:03:52,626
Every one
of those flight attendants
1326
01:03:52,709 --> 01:03:55,167
could have walked across
the picket line, which many did.
1327
01:03:55,250 --> 01:03:58,042
Many of them said,
"Hey, Vicki Frankovich,
the heck with it."
1328
01:03:58,125 --> 01:03:59,542
They could have
kept their jobs.
1329
01:03:59,626 --> 01:04:01,959
I didn't tell you not to cross,
we begged you to cross.
1330
01:04:02,042 --> 01:04:03,792
We came out, we told you
over and over.
1331
01:04:03,876 --> 01:04:05,375
They had work rules
that we couldn't afford.
1332
01:04:05,459 --> 01:04:07,959
If I hadn't come along
and borrowed $700 million
1333
01:04:08,042 --> 01:04:09,375
on my name,
you'd be chapter 11.
1334
01:04:09,459 --> 01:04:11,459
If you're chapter 11,
it wouldn't do you any damn good
1335
01:04:11,542 --> 01:04:13,834
'cause you wouldn't be working,
you'd be like Eastern.
1336
01:04:17,667 --> 01:04:20,459
Pan Am, Eastern, and Braniff,
1337
01:04:20,542 --> 01:04:22,876
there was a whole bunch
of them that went under.
1338
01:04:27,792 --> 01:04:29,542
And during that period,
1339
01:04:29,626 --> 01:04:32,792
we turned TWA around,
for a couple of years.
1340
01:04:36,584 --> 01:04:39,209
announcer:
The U.S. is a bargain
1341
01:04:39,292 --> 01:04:40,709
if you know where to shop.
1342
01:04:40,792 --> 01:04:43,834
And the best place
is today's TWA.
1343
01:04:43,918 --> 01:04:46,125
We've got low air fares
to terrific cities...
1344
01:04:46,209 --> 01:04:48,834
We brought innovation
with a business saver fare.
1345
01:04:48,918 --> 01:04:50,876
announcer:
Bargains on the ground, too,
1346
01:04:50,959 --> 01:04:52,167
like our travel value pack.
1347
01:04:52,250 --> 01:04:54,584
Carl: We created
the flight attendants school.
1348
01:04:54,667 --> 01:04:56,250
♪ You're gonna like us ♪
1349
01:04:56,334 --> 01:04:58,125
♪ TWA ♪
1350
01:04:58,209 --> 01:05:02,500
I made mistakes with it,
though, I mean, I made
a lot of mistakes with it.
1351
01:05:02,584 --> 01:05:05,375
And then it, then it got
from bad to worse.
1352
01:05:05,459 --> 01:05:08,584
(ominous music playing)
1353
01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:15,792
♪ Happy birthday,
Dear Carl ♪
1354
01:05:15,876 --> 01:05:20,459
♪ Happy birthday to you... ♪
1355
01:05:20,542 --> 01:05:22,083
The problems were endemic.
1356
01:05:22,167 --> 01:05:24,459
People weren't traveling
to Europe for a while,
1357
01:05:24,542 --> 01:05:26,292
you had that Desert Storm
that came.
1358
01:05:29,375 --> 01:05:31,042
There were a lot of
other things, too,
1359
01:05:31,125 --> 01:05:32,834
with the terrorism.
1360
01:05:33,918 --> 01:05:35,500
He was perplexed.
1361
01:05:35,584 --> 01:05:37,417
"Why can't I figure this out?"
1362
01:05:40,250 --> 01:05:43,626
He's always had a magic wand.
Didn't work here.
1363
01:05:45,083 --> 01:05:48,417
Carl eventually
took the company private,
1364
01:05:48,500 --> 01:05:50,584
but it was loaded with debt.
1365
01:05:53,876 --> 01:05:56,375
And TWA ended up
filing for bankruptcy.
1366
01:06:03,334 --> 01:06:06,250
I really believe that, you know,
you look at the results,
1367
01:06:06,334 --> 01:06:09,876
and if it doesn't work,
you blame yourself, I guess.
1368
01:06:12,959 --> 01:06:15,334
(upbeat music playing)
1369
01:06:15,417 --> 01:06:18,334
I'm taking you back
to where I grew up.
1370
01:06:18,417 --> 01:06:20,375
You've always asked me
as a little girl,
1371
01:06:20,459 --> 01:06:22,751
and I'm gonna show you,
before I moved to Florida.
1372
01:06:22,834 --> 01:06:24,709
-So little...
-I've heard so many stories.
1373
01:06:24,792 --> 01:06:26,959
So little,
but I grew up there.
1374
01:06:27,042 --> 01:06:28,500
♪ ♪
1375
01:06:28,584 --> 01:06:31,500
I think it wasn't...
it wasn't until I was older
1376
01:06:31,584 --> 01:06:34,250
that I really, I think,
got a better understanding
1377
01:06:34,334 --> 01:06:36,375
of where my father grew up
1378
01:06:36,459 --> 01:06:39,667
and the different challenges
that he probably was facing
1379
01:06:39,751 --> 01:06:42,125
that were maybe responsible
1380
01:06:42,209 --> 01:06:45,584
for making him so tenacious.
1381
01:06:45,667 --> 01:06:46,959
♪ ♪
1382
01:06:47,042 --> 01:06:49,250
Carl: My parents, they only
made around 5,000 a year,
1383
01:06:49,334 --> 01:06:50,751
but that's all
they would talk about.
1384
01:06:50,834 --> 01:06:52,626
Maybe that's why I was
so interested in money.
1385
01:06:52,709 --> 01:06:55,209
They hated the rich people,
but they were so into it.
1386
01:06:57,751 --> 01:07:00,751
-Okay, we're here.
-(engine stops)
1387
01:07:02,500 --> 01:07:05,250
Carl:
You're coming up to my house.
1388
01:07:05,334 --> 01:07:07,542
Michelle: I remember it
from photos, but this is...
1389
01:07:07,626 --> 01:07:10,334
-Carl: Yeah, I remember it well.
-...it's so cool seeing it.
1390
01:07:10,959 --> 01:07:12,292
Carl:
Yep.
1391
01:07:12,375 --> 01:07:13,709
Oh, Mr. Icahn, how are you?
1392
01:07:13,792 --> 01:07:15,042
-Carl: Okay.
-Moishe Russell.
1393
01:07:15,125 --> 01:07:17,876
Good to meet you, and thanks
very much for having us.
1394
01:07:21,959 --> 01:07:24,000
(laughs) Jeez.
1395
01:07:24,083 --> 01:07:26,209
Brings back memories,
that's for sure.
1396
01:07:27,751 --> 01:07:30,042
My father had
all this musical stuff,
1397
01:07:30,125 --> 01:07:31,542
because he loved to sing.
1398
01:07:31,626 --> 01:07:34,292
And he had
a Presto record recording.
1399
01:07:34,375 --> 01:07:35,959
Your mom had
a wall right here.
1400
01:07:36,042 --> 01:07:38,167
No, they took the wall out.
This was the dining room.
1401
01:07:38,250 --> 01:07:41,542
They kept telling her,
the house would fall down
if you took the thing down.
1402
01:07:41,626 --> 01:07:43,292
But she found a builder
that said, "Bullshit,
1403
01:07:43,375 --> 01:07:45,292
I'll put a beam up there,
the house is fine."
1404
01:07:45,375 --> 01:07:48,209
'Cause she was
tenacious, my mother.
Boy, she was tough.
1405
01:07:48,292 --> 01:07:50,834
♪ ♪
1406
01:07:50,918 --> 01:07:53,626
But you know, when you
needed her, she was there,
I'll say that.
1407
01:07:53,709 --> 01:07:56,125
You know, like
sometimes if I feel down
or have problems,
1408
01:07:56,209 --> 01:07:58,918
she was always
a real good problem solver.
1409
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,334
But... egomaniac.
1410
01:08:01,417 --> 01:08:03,250
She was a complete egomaniac.
1411
01:08:03,334 --> 01:08:05,292
I mean, everything she did
was right, you know.
1412
01:08:05,375 --> 01:08:08,459
She, she had the answer
to, to everything,
1413
01:08:08,542 --> 01:08:11,000
and she was really...
you know.
1414
01:08:11,083 --> 01:08:12,459
But people liked her.
1415
01:08:12,542 --> 01:08:15,250
She was funny, you know,
she had a good sense of humor,
1416
01:08:15,334 --> 01:08:17,375
except with me.
1417
01:08:17,459 --> 01:08:21,167
I had to be perfect to her
because I was her kid.
1418
01:08:21,250 --> 01:08:23,667
So anything she did
was perfect, right?
1419
01:08:23,751 --> 01:08:25,584
So, I was supposed to be
perfect.
1420
01:08:25,667 --> 01:08:27,709
♪ ♪
1421
01:08:27,792 --> 01:08:31,042
She was so strong-willed
and I was strong-willed,
1422
01:08:31,125 --> 01:08:35,459
so... we always had
a stormy relationship.
1423
01:08:37,959 --> 01:08:41,834
(man singing in Hebrew
on phonograph)
1424
01:08:48,626 --> 01:08:51,626
Ah, look at this. Wow.
1425
01:08:51,709 --> 01:08:53,709
Michelle:
Where are we right now?
1426
01:08:53,792 --> 01:08:55,751
Temple Beth El.
1427
01:08:57,709 --> 01:08:59,459
I was bar-mitzvahed here.
1428
01:08:59,542 --> 01:09:00,876
Oh, yeah.
1429
01:09:04,125 --> 01:09:07,375
(song ends triumphantly)
1430
01:09:07,459 --> 01:09:09,000
Michelle:
It's beautiful.
1431
01:09:09,083 --> 01:09:11,959
Carl: My father used to sing
here and he was the cantor,
1432
01:09:12,042 --> 01:09:13,500
and I was bar-mitzvahed here.
1433
01:09:13,584 --> 01:09:16,375
-Wow.
-But he wasn't religious at all.
1434
01:09:16,459 --> 01:09:18,584
They would sit here,
the trustee, maybe,
1435
01:09:18,667 --> 01:09:21,959
and my father would sing,
I don't know which one,
maybe over there.
1436
01:09:22,042 --> 01:09:23,584
Yeah.
1437
01:09:25,292 --> 01:09:29,500
I haven't been back, I think,
for close to 70 years.
1438
01:09:31,792 --> 01:09:34,626
Bruce: You feel the ghost
of your father in here?
1439
01:09:35,417 --> 01:09:37,375
Nah. Nah.
1440
01:09:38,709 --> 01:09:41,125
My father was
a very strange guy.
1441
01:09:41,209 --> 01:09:43,918
Even though he was
the cantor at the temple,
1442
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,792
he was a dyed-in-the-wool
dogmatic atheist.
1443
01:09:49,042 --> 01:09:51,584
And he was, in my opinion,
a communist.
1444
01:09:51,667 --> 01:09:55,417
My father was also
the Irish tenor on Sundays.
1445
01:09:55,500 --> 01:09:57,209
-And so...
-(Michelle laughs)
1446
01:09:57,292 --> 01:09:59,250
He was. He just had
a great voice, you know.
1447
01:09:59,334 --> 01:10:02,584
It was, Michael O'Cahn
was coming and he would
sing "Danny Boy,"
1448
01:10:02,667 --> 01:10:06,876
and he just wanted to sing,
you know?
1449
01:10:06,959 --> 01:10:09,083
I never inherited
his love for real music.
1450
01:10:09,167 --> 01:10:10,584
I mean,
I never had any talent.
1451
01:10:10,667 --> 01:10:12,709
He's the guy that said to me,
1452
01:10:12,792 --> 01:10:15,292
"Your mother has
great talent in art.
1453
01:10:15,375 --> 01:10:18,542
"I have a great voice.
We're both talented people.
1454
01:10:18,626 --> 01:10:22,125
"Now you, on the other hand,
have absolutely no talent.
1455
01:10:22,209 --> 01:10:23,459
"Go be a doctor.
1456
01:10:23,542 --> 01:10:25,709
The doctors,
look what they charge you."
1457
01:10:25,792 --> 01:10:29,334
He had no filter
for what he said.
1458
01:10:30,542 --> 01:10:32,792
My father was
an interesting character
1459
01:10:32,876 --> 01:10:34,792
'cause he didn't,
he didn't really give a damn
1460
01:10:34,876 --> 01:10:36,375
pretty much about...
1461
01:10:36,459 --> 01:10:38,334
Well, he did,
he got outraged at people.
1462
01:10:38,417 --> 01:10:41,542
He really, I think I got
this sense of outrage from him.
1463
01:10:41,626 --> 01:10:42,918
Michelle:
Yeah.
1464
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:44,709
Carl:
I was never close to him.
1465
01:10:44,792 --> 01:10:47,792
I never respected him
or admired him.
1466
01:10:49,500 --> 01:10:51,500
My father, he never
asked me what I did.
1467
01:10:51,584 --> 01:10:54,792
Even when I went on Wall Street
and I was making the money,
1468
01:10:54,876 --> 01:10:57,083
he never tried
to have me explain it.
1469
01:10:57,167 --> 01:11:00,000
He never asked,
he never got into it.
1470
01:11:00,083 --> 01:11:02,542
And finally, in Florida,
1471
01:11:02,626 --> 01:11:05,500
I went down there once
and he had a pad and pencil.
1472
01:11:05,584 --> 01:11:08,500
"Come here, come here.
Explain to me what you do."
1473
01:11:08,584 --> 01:11:10,459
And I said,
"You finally admit it."
1474
01:11:13,667 --> 01:11:15,626
And then we hugged.
1475
01:11:15,709 --> 01:11:17,834
I still, I still cry about that.
1476
01:11:20,209 --> 01:11:21,375
Bruce:
Why do you cry?
1477
01:11:21,459 --> 01:11:23,542
I don't know.
1478
01:11:23,626 --> 01:11:25,709
I don't know.
1479
01:11:25,792 --> 01:11:28,167
I don't know why I do.
1480
01:11:29,125 --> 01:11:30,334
I felt...
1481
01:11:32,417 --> 01:11:33,584
a certain warmth.
1482
01:11:33,667 --> 01:11:34,959
A certain warmth.
1483
01:11:35,042 --> 01:11:37,876
That was, that was my father.
1484
01:11:40,459 --> 01:11:42,584
They, they say,
"Thou shall not kill,"
1485
01:11:42,667 --> 01:11:46,751
and later on you go,
"An eye for an eye,
a tooth for a tooth," right?
1486
01:11:46,834 --> 01:11:49,334
So they're all
sort of contradictory.
1487
01:11:49,417 --> 01:11:51,375
(both laugh softly)
1488
01:11:58,500 --> 01:12:02,167
reporter 1:
Some say Carl Icahn was
20 years ahead of his time,
1489
01:12:02,250 --> 01:12:04,042
battling the corporate world
1490
01:12:04,125 --> 01:12:06,375
in the name
of shareholder value.
1491
01:12:06,459 --> 01:12:08,000
Aw, come on!
1492
01:12:08,083 --> 01:12:10,459
reporter 2:
When TWA filed for bankruptcy,
1493
01:12:10,542 --> 01:12:14,083
it hurt his reputation,
but he pressed on,
1494
01:12:14,167 --> 01:12:17,751
returning to the scene
with years of proxy fights,
1495
01:12:17,834 --> 01:12:20,125
all the while demonstrating
his knack
1496
01:12:20,209 --> 01:12:22,000
for corporate combat.
1497
01:12:23,334 --> 01:12:25,417
(percussive music playing)
1498
01:12:31,209 --> 01:12:34,042
(trance music playing)
1499
01:12:39,125 --> 01:12:41,209
Herbalife is
a global nutrition company
1500
01:12:41,292 --> 01:12:42,834
that sells our products
exclusively
1501
01:12:42,918 --> 01:12:45,459
through a network of people
just like you.
1502
01:12:47,292 --> 01:12:50,042
Herbalife is a nutrition company
based in California
1503
01:12:50,125 --> 01:12:53,626
that Carl Icahn probably
had never heard of.
1504
01:12:53,709 --> 01:12:55,292
I mean, nothing.
1505
01:12:55,375 --> 01:12:57,417
Until Bill Ackman showed up.
1506
01:13:00,834 --> 01:13:02,876
Throughout my career,
the vast majority,
1507
01:13:02,959 --> 01:13:04,959
particularly our most
successful investments,
1508
01:13:05,042 --> 01:13:07,584
have been ones that have been
controversial in one way
or another.
1509
01:13:07,667 --> 01:13:11,459
Bill Ackman is another one
of the major activist
investors out there.
1510
01:13:11,542 --> 01:13:12,959
He's a fellow billionaire.
1511
01:13:13,042 --> 01:13:15,542
One of these masters
of the universe in New York.
1512
01:13:15,626 --> 01:13:19,000
Harvard educated
versus Carl's Princeton.
1513
01:13:19,083 --> 01:13:23,000
reporter:
Although unlike Carl,
he was born into privilege.
1514
01:13:23,083 --> 01:13:27,459
He also likes to publicly
spar with companies
the way Icahn does,
1515
01:13:27,542 --> 01:13:29,876
but he goes about it
in a slightly different manner.
1516
01:13:29,959 --> 01:13:31,959
And please welcome
Bill Ackman.
1517
01:13:32,042 --> 01:13:36,250
(crowd applauding)
1518
01:13:36,334 --> 01:13:38,167
Okay, so we've got
a lot to cover today,
1519
01:13:38,250 --> 01:13:39,918
so we're going to move
pretty quickly.
1520
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:41,626
Why don't we start...
1521
01:13:41,709 --> 01:13:43,834
Sorkin:
So Bill Ackman decides
1522
01:13:43,918 --> 01:13:47,375
that Herbalife effectively
is a fraud, it's a scam.
1523
01:13:47,459 --> 01:13:50,667
Herbalife is a pyramid scheme.
1524
01:13:50,751 --> 01:13:52,125
It's caused enormous harm
1525
01:13:52,209 --> 01:13:54,500
to millions around the world.
1526
01:13:56,417 --> 01:13:57,792
Our goal is for the facts
1527
01:13:57,876 --> 01:14:00,000
about Herbalife
to be made public.
1528
01:14:00,083 --> 01:14:03,542
And he believes that
if he's able to expose
1529
01:14:03,626 --> 01:14:06,459
what he believes are the
company's frauds to the public,
1530
01:14:06,542 --> 01:14:08,918
that regulators
are gonna jump in
1531
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:10,709
and the stock is gonna tank.
1532
01:14:10,792 --> 01:14:12,459
I don't want to make
any money from this, okay?
1533
01:14:12,542 --> 01:14:14,709
I view this as blood money,
but let me be clear.
1534
01:14:14,792 --> 01:14:16,292
We'll short the stock.
1535
01:14:16,375 --> 01:14:18,250
Herbalife stock goes down,
we make money.
1536
01:14:18,334 --> 01:14:20,167
Herbalife stock goes up,
we lose money.
1537
01:14:28,584 --> 01:14:29,918
He's gonna short the company,
1538
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,000
so he's gonna bet that
the stock is gonna fall
1539
01:14:32,083 --> 01:14:35,167
all the way to zero.
1540
01:14:35,250 --> 01:14:38,709
Ackman: A pyramid scheme is
actually a modern-day version
of a Ponzi scheme.
1541
01:14:38,792 --> 01:14:42,751
Carl, meanwhile,
is watching this all play out.
1542
01:14:42,834 --> 01:14:45,292
Ackman:
...the version is called 3.0.
1543
01:14:45,375 --> 01:14:47,792
It's 1.0 is the Ponzi scheme.
1544
01:14:47,876 --> 01:14:50,584
And he's thinking to himself
that Bill is gonna lose,
1545
01:14:50,667 --> 01:14:53,626
that he's never gonna
get the stock to go
even further down
1546
01:14:53,709 --> 01:14:55,751
and effectively bets
against him.
1547
01:14:55,834 --> 01:15:00,500
(discordant music plays)
1548
01:15:00,584 --> 01:15:02,000
Carl:
Ackman is a real,
1549
01:15:02,083 --> 01:15:04,125
I think, a smart guy
and a good investor.
1550
01:15:04,209 --> 01:15:06,667
He might have talked himself
into believing
1551
01:15:06,751 --> 01:15:09,167
that he was going to be
a savior,
1552
01:15:09,250 --> 01:15:11,626
but I felt that Ackman
had an agenda.
1553
01:15:11,709 --> 01:15:14,459
♪ ♪
1554
01:15:14,542 --> 01:15:19,042
Icahn and Ackman
had done a deal together
some years earlier
1555
01:15:19,125 --> 01:15:24,209
where the contract
was somewhat ambiguous.
1556
01:15:24,292 --> 01:15:29,334
And the court eventually said
that Icahn had to pay.
1557
01:15:29,417 --> 01:15:31,167
After Carl paid Bill,
1558
01:15:31,250 --> 01:15:33,667
the unwritten rule
on Wall Street,
1559
01:15:33,751 --> 01:15:36,417
"Don't gloat
about your victories."
1560
01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:39,209
Bill went to the newspaper
and he gloated about the victory
1561
01:15:39,292 --> 01:15:42,542
and that pissed Icahn off
like you don't know.
1562
01:15:42,626 --> 01:15:45,125
I think Herbalife was personal.
1563
01:15:45,209 --> 01:15:47,959
Carl: Ackman's whole thesis
is completely wrong.
1564
01:15:48,042 --> 01:15:50,250
I mean, I can't even
understand his argument.
1565
01:15:50,334 --> 01:15:53,667
I was walking through
the CNBC newsroom,
1566
01:15:53,751 --> 01:15:57,918
and I saw Carl on TV
on another network
1567
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,292
absolutely annihilating Ackman.
1568
01:16:00,375 --> 01:16:02,918
Carl: He may believe what
he's saying, I don't know.
1569
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:04,751
Herbalife gives jobs to people.
1570
01:16:04,834 --> 01:16:07,209
I mean, it's absurd
what Ackman is saying.
1571
01:16:07,292 --> 01:16:11,042
And I stopped in my tracks
and I said,
1572
01:16:11,125 --> 01:16:12,584
"This is unbelievable."
1573
01:16:12,667 --> 01:16:15,918
And I was kind of mad that
it was happening somewhere else.
1574
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,083
But I went and I called Bill.
1575
01:16:18,167 --> 01:16:21,751
And I said, "Do you want
to respond to this?"
1576
01:16:21,834 --> 01:16:23,250
And he's like, "You know what?
1577
01:16:23,334 --> 01:16:24,626
"Carl's an asshole.
1578
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:26,500
"I'm sick and tired
of this bullshit.
1579
01:16:26,584 --> 01:16:28,292
"He tried to take
advantage of me.
1580
01:16:28,375 --> 01:16:31,500
I'll come on, I'll do it"
So I said, "Great."
1581
01:16:31,584 --> 01:16:33,667
(intense music playing)
1582
01:16:33,751 --> 01:16:35,751
Ackman: Carl has been
maligning my reputation,
1583
01:16:35,834 --> 01:16:37,834
so it's very important
that we get to the facts.
1584
01:16:37,918 --> 01:16:40,876
Ackman comes on,
we're talking about Herbalife.
1585
01:16:40,959 --> 01:16:43,667
Ackman: Carl, he can try
to scare my investors
from investing with me,
1586
01:16:43,751 --> 01:16:45,459
which it sounds like
he's attempting.
1587
01:16:45,542 --> 01:16:48,834
And then Carl calls in
to the control room.
1588
01:16:48,918 --> 01:16:51,125
I look down at my computer
and there's a tweet
1589
01:16:51,209 --> 01:16:53,918
from a CNBC
colleague of mine,
1590
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,334
and it says,
"This is gonna be good."
1591
01:16:56,417 --> 01:16:58,792
-(dramatic flourish plays)
-All right, welcome back
1592
01:16:58,876 --> 01:17:01,626
to the "Halftime Report,"
live today from
the New York Stock Exchange.
1593
01:17:01,709 --> 01:17:04,459
We've been speaking with
hedge fund investor Bill Ackman.
1594
01:17:04,542 --> 01:17:07,083
Now it's time to hear
what Carl Icahn thinks
of our conversation.
1595
01:17:07,167 --> 01:17:09,792
He joins us live on the phone.
Carl, are you there,
Bill, there?
1596
01:17:09,876 --> 01:17:12,375
-Carl: Okay,
good to talk to you.
-Ackman: I am here as well.
1597
01:17:12,459 --> 01:17:14,375
Wapner: You know, Carl,
you have an issue with the way
1598
01:17:14,459 --> 01:17:17,209
that Bill went about
the Herbalife short
1599
01:17:17,292 --> 01:17:19,792
as aggressive and as
publicly as he did,
1600
01:17:19,876 --> 01:17:22,667
and he's essentially saying
that you're a hypocrite.
1601
01:17:22,751 --> 01:17:23,876
How do you respond?
1602
01:17:23,959 --> 01:17:26,167
Carl: Let's start
with what I want to say.
1603
01:17:26,250 --> 01:17:28,626
I've really sort of had it
with this guy Ackman,
1604
01:17:28,709 --> 01:17:32,834
'cause Herbalife is a classic
example of what he does.
1605
01:17:32,918 --> 01:17:34,459
You scare the hell
out of people,
1606
01:17:34,542 --> 01:17:35,834
get the stock down
1607
01:17:35,918 --> 01:17:38,292
and make 600 million bucks
on paper
1608
01:17:38,375 --> 01:17:40,250
and tells the world
how great he is.
1609
01:17:40,334 --> 01:17:41,626
I had dinner with him.
1610
01:17:41,709 --> 01:17:43,292
I couldn't figure out
if he was
1611
01:17:43,375 --> 01:17:45,584
the most sanctimonious guy
I ever met in my life
1612
01:17:45,667 --> 01:17:47,334
or the most arrogant.
1613
01:17:47,417 --> 01:17:49,751
And I'd like to give Bill
a chance to respond
to you as well.
1614
01:17:49,834 --> 01:17:52,500
Ackman:
Carl has been-- is gonna try
to attack my integrity.
1615
01:17:52,584 --> 01:17:55,167
And Herbalife,
we're not scaring people
1616
01:17:55,250 --> 01:17:56,959
but going through the facts
about the company--
1617
01:17:57,042 --> 01:17:58,834
Carl:
If that wasn't scaring people,
you could have fooled me.
1618
01:17:58,918 --> 01:18:00,334
Ackman:
And we will either
be proven right,
1619
01:18:00,417 --> 01:18:01,751
or we'll be proven wrong.
1620
01:18:01,834 --> 01:18:03,751
There had never been
quite a showdown
1621
01:18:03,834 --> 01:18:05,417
between two people
of such high stature
1622
01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:08,083
as Carl Icahn and Bill Ackman
on live TV.
1623
01:18:08,167 --> 01:18:10,918
Carl:
Then he talks about charity,
that's complete (bleep).
1624
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:12,751
He's not giving it to charity,
1625
01:18:12,834 --> 01:18:15,042
assuming they don't need
charity themselves.
1626
01:18:15,125 --> 01:18:17,250
-Let me do this, I mean...
Carl.
1627
01:18:17,334 --> 01:18:19,542
Carl: Now, that's what
I'll say about Ackman, okay?
1628
01:18:19,626 --> 01:18:21,751
Let me remind you that
we are on live television.
1629
01:18:21,834 --> 01:18:24,334
We're doing the show that day
at the stock exchange,
1630
01:18:24,417 --> 01:18:25,918
and it's on a delay.
1631
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:30,042
So each time Carl would say
something nasty about Bill,
1632
01:18:30,125 --> 01:18:33,083
two seconds later
you would hear all the traders
on the trading floor...
1633
01:18:33,167 --> 01:18:35,626
Carl:
He's the quintessential
example on Wall Street,
1634
01:18:35,709 --> 01:18:37,500
if you want a friend,
get a dog.
1635
01:18:37,584 --> 01:18:40,417
-traders: Ohh!
-Carl: And he does
a pump-and-dump...
1636
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:41,876
Wapner: Uh, the guys
on the trading floor
1637
01:18:41,959 --> 01:18:43,459
down here at
the New York stock exchange...
1638
01:18:43,542 --> 01:18:47,042
Same thing when Bill would,
you know, insult Carl,
1639
01:18:47,125 --> 01:18:48,918
the floor would erupt.
1640
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,459
Ackman: This is not
an honest guy.
He's a bully, okay?
1641
01:18:51,542 --> 01:18:53,834
Says he doesn't like
behaviors that are bad...
1642
01:18:53,918 --> 01:18:59,042
It quickly devolved
into a battle, a war.
1643
01:18:59,125 --> 01:19:02,042
-Carl: Ackman is a liar, okay?
-(traders clamoring)
1644
01:19:02,125 --> 01:19:06,083
He's got one of the worst
reputations on Wall Street.
The guy is a major loser.
1645
01:19:06,167 --> 01:19:09,417
Ackman: The big issue about
Carl Icahn is he's not used
to someone standing up to him.
1646
01:19:09,500 --> 01:19:12,375
Carl, you wanna bid
for the company, go ahead
and bid for the company.
1647
01:19:12,459 --> 01:19:14,751
Carl: Hey, you don't have
to tell me what I'm free to do.
1648
01:19:14,834 --> 01:19:17,500
I'm reporting from Davos,
Switzerland,
1649
01:19:17,584 --> 01:19:20,000
at the World Economic Forum,
1650
01:19:20,083 --> 01:19:23,667
where all the CEOs
from around the globe come.
1651
01:19:23,751 --> 01:19:26,042
And I remember being
at a cocktail party,
1652
01:19:26,125 --> 01:19:31,334
trying to get Wi-Fi on my phone
so I could watch it,
1653
01:19:31,417 --> 01:19:35,334
and literally a swarm of CEOs
1654
01:19:35,417 --> 01:19:37,459
standing around,
we were all watching...
1655
01:19:37,542 --> 01:19:40,792
Carl: I appreciate, Bill,
that you called me
a great investor.
1656
01:19:40,876 --> 01:19:43,250
Unfortunately I can't
say the same for you.
1657
01:19:43,334 --> 01:19:45,792
It was like must-see TV.
1658
01:19:45,876 --> 01:19:48,751
Ackman: Simply said to him,
I said, "Look, Carl,
you are no friend of mine."
1659
01:19:48,834 --> 01:19:50,459
You couldn't take
your eyes off of the thing.
1660
01:19:50,542 --> 01:19:52,459
Ackman: Do you think
I wanna invest with you?
1661
01:19:52,542 --> 01:19:55,709
Carl: I wouldn't invest
with you if you were
the last man on Earth.
1662
01:19:55,792 --> 01:19:58,709
Volume of trading
at the New York Stock Exchange
1663
01:19:58,792 --> 01:20:00,375
went down 20%,
1664
01:20:00,459 --> 01:20:04,042
as everybody was just sort of
standing there watching TV.
1665
01:20:04,125 --> 01:20:06,459
Carl: I'm telling you,
he's like the crybaby
in the schoolyard.
1666
01:20:06,542 --> 01:20:08,417
You know, I went to
a tough school in Queens
1667
01:20:08,500 --> 01:20:11,334
and they used to beat up
the little Jewish boys
1668
01:20:11,417 --> 01:20:13,417
and he was like one
of these little Jewish boys,
1669
01:20:13,500 --> 01:20:16,000
crying that the world
was taking advantage of him.
1670
01:20:16,083 --> 01:20:18,834
Wapner:
Let me, guys, we're gonna...
we're gonna end it there.
1671
01:20:18,918 --> 01:20:22,250
Bill Ackman, Carl Icahn,
we'll go to break.
1672
01:20:22,334 --> 01:20:24,834
Herbalife played out
for a number of years,
1673
01:20:24,918 --> 01:20:27,792
but it was really a foregone
conclusion from that moment,
1674
01:20:27,876 --> 01:20:30,209
because once Carl emerged,
1675
01:20:30,292 --> 01:20:31,834
Bill didn't really have
a chance.
1676
01:20:31,918 --> 01:20:33,918
Just as the markets are falling,
1677
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:36,751
Herbalife is hitting
an all-time high today.
1678
01:20:36,834 --> 01:20:38,918
Carl wasn't going
to go anywhere.
1679
01:20:39,042 --> 01:20:41,542
And Wall Street
was betting with Carl.
1680
01:20:41,626 --> 01:20:43,709
(trance music playing)
1681
01:20:46,459 --> 01:20:48,751
Herbalife is officially
1682
01:20:48,834 --> 01:20:51,751
the worst investment ever made
by Pershing Square.
1683
01:20:56,459 --> 01:21:00,417
Bill lost the majority of
his investment in Herbalife.
1684
01:21:00,500 --> 01:21:02,167
It was a billion-dollar short.
1685
01:21:02,250 --> 01:21:04,542
And eventually Bill
just threw in the towel,
1686
01:21:04,626 --> 01:21:08,250
and Icahn, he won.
1687
01:21:11,626 --> 01:21:12,792
It obviously felt good.
1688
01:21:12,876 --> 01:21:14,459
It felt good that I beat him.
1689
01:21:14,542 --> 01:21:19,083
We did have a vendetta, and I
felt he had screwed me once,
1690
01:21:19,167 --> 01:21:21,125
so it felt good to do it.
1691
01:21:21,209 --> 01:21:24,375
But I certainly have no grudge,
1692
01:21:24,459 --> 01:21:26,834
and at the end
of this whole thing,
1693
01:21:26,918 --> 01:21:30,834
he called me up and
congratulated me on the victory.
1694
01:21:30,918 --> 01:21:34,167
And I think it was
a classy thing to do.
1695
01:21:34,250 --> 01:21:37,834
But the winning, that's not
the motivation for me.
1696
01:21:37,918 --> 01:21:40,792
The motivation is just,
find the good one.
1697
01:21:40,876 --> 01:21:43,125
Find something you know
is gonna be good,
1698
01:21:43,209 --> 01:21:46,459
and the odds
are greatly in your favor.
1699
01:21:46,542 --> 01:21:48,709
Winning, it's almost...
1700
01:21:49,667 --> 01:21:52,417
a bit of a letdown, actually.
1701
01:21:52,500 --> 01:21:56,334
You know, you did it all.
Now it worked.
1702
01:21:56,417 --> 01:21:58,209
On to the next one.
1703
01:21:59,667 --> 01:22:02,751
Pretty good. I made a good one.
Fairly good. Fairly good.
1704
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,125
(percussive music playing)
1705
01:22:12,584 --> 01:22:15,167
Sorkin: Carl wasn't typically
interested in tech companies
1706
01:22:15,250 --> 01:22:18,834
'cause they weren't
his kind of companies.
1707
01:22:18,918 --> 01:22:21,250
analyst: Why is Carl Icahn,
first of all, investing
1708
01:22:21,334 --> 01:22:23,209
in a private tech company?
1709
01:22:23,292 --> 01:22:25,959
Wapner: How did he end up
in the tech game?
1710
01:22:26,042 --> 01:22:29,083
♪ ♪
1711
01:22:32,459 --> 01:22:35,584
Brett Icahn: I started working
for my father as an analyst
1712
01:22:35,667 --> 01:22:37,792
back in 2002.
1713
01:22:37,876 --> 01:22:39,709
There were several
of us at the time.
1714
01:22:39,792 --> 01:22:41,542
I was definitely
the youngest of the group.
1715
01:22:41,626 --> 01:22:44,375
I sort of had
a privileged "in,"
1716
01:22:44,459 --> 01:22:46,709
you could, you could say.
1717
01:22:46,792 --> 01:22:49,042
But I had, you know,
I had learned quite a bit
1718
01:22:49,125 --> 01:22:50,667
about accounting
1719
01:22:50,751 --> 01:22:52,375
and I took economics
in school,
1720
01:22:52,459 --> 01:22:55,709
so it's not like I was
completely a fish out of water.
1721
01:22:55,792 --> 01:22:57,500
Carl:
I'll say this about Brett,
1722
01:22:57,584 --> 01:23:01,209
he's much more low-key
than I am.
1723
01:23:01,292 --> 01:23:04,292
But he's one of the most
obsessive characters,
1724
01:23:04,375 --> 01:23:06,417
and he'll work very hard
at something,
1725
01:23:06,500 --> 01:23:07,792
extremely hard,
1726
01:23:07,876 --> 01:23:10,542
especially if it means
beating me at something.
1727
01:23:10,626 --> 01:23:12,334
♪ ♪
1728
01:23:12,417 --> 01:23:14,834
Cara Lombardo:
He's not quite
as pushy as Carl.
1729
01:23:14,918 --> 01:23:17,876
He's more analytical.
1730
01:23:17,959 --> 01:23:21,042
He is definitely
more risk averse.
1731
01:23:21,125 --> 01:23:23,334
But they have
a lot of similarities too.
1732
01:23:23,417 --> 01:23:25,292
They both love history.
1733
01:23:25,375 --> 01:23:28,000
They're war buffs.
1734
01:23:28,083 --> 01:23:31,417
For a while, they played
a Sunday night game of chess
1735
01:23:31,500 --> 01:23:32,876
every week.
1736
01:23:32,959 --> 01:23:34,876
But they had to stop that
because Brett,
1737
01:23:34,959 --> 01:23:38,375
he got too good
and kept winning.
1738
01:23:38,459 --> 01:23:41,459
Foroohar: Carl, I think,
is very proud of Brett.
1739
01:23:41,542 --> 01:23:44,125
He wanted to praise Brett
to me on a couple of occasions,
1740
01:23:44,209 --> 01:23:45,918
but he would sort of
pull himself back
1741
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:50,000
because he didn't want
to make it too easy for him.
1742
01:23:50,083 --> 01:23:51,709
Carl:
So he worked for me ten years.
1743
01:23:51,792 --> 01:23:53,751
Another guy in the firm,
a very smart guy,
1744
01:23:53,834 --> 01:23:56,375
named David Schecter,
they came to me, said, "Look,
1745
01:23:56,459 --> 01:23:59,626
we're not gonna stay here
unless we get some money
to manage."
1746
01:23:59,709 --> 01:24:01,709
You know, "We're not gonna
just do research."
1747
01:24:01,792 --> 01:24:03,751
So I figure, well,
I'll teach them a lesson.
1748
01:24:03,834 --> 01:24:06,250
I'll give them some money.
I made it a tough deal.
1749
01:24:06,334 --> 01:24:08,709
It was actually like
a very difficult deal.
1750
01:24:08,792 --> 01:24:10,667
You know, I said,
"Okay, you can have like
1751
01:24:10,751 --> 01:24:12,876
"7.5 percent profits,
each one of you,
1752
01:24:12,959 --> 01:24:15,918
"but you are gonna have
to meet this hurdle rate
1753
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:17,792
"of 7% before
you make a penny.
1754
01:24:17,876 --> 01:24:20,209
No salary, no income,
no nothing."
1755
01:24:20,292 --> 01:24:22,334
And they both agreed to it.
1756
01:24:22,417 --> 01:24:24,459
♪ ♪
1757
01:24:26,459 --> 01:24:29,375
Lombardo: And I think Brett
really expanded Carl's mind
1758
01:24:29,459 --> 01:24:32,083
in terms of what makes
a good investment.
1759
01:24:32,167 --> 01:24:35,083
It was Brett who called
Carl's attention to Netflix.
1760
01:24:35,167 --> 01:24:38,417
reporter: Mr. Icahn owns
2.2 million shares.
1761
01:24:38,500 --> 01:24:41,500
That makes him
one of the largest
shareholders in Netflix.
1762
01:24:41,584 --> 01:24:44,000
reporter 2: Netflix,
Netflix the big winner
in today's trade.
1763
01:24:44,083 --> 01:24:46,209
Carl: Netflix was a no-brainer
when we first went into it.
1764
01:24:46,292 --> 01:24:48,250
Everybody didn't like it
when we bought it.
1765
01:24:48,334 --> 01:24:52,000
So Netflix went on to be
one of their most lucrative
investments ever.
1766
01:24:52,083 --> 01:24:55,125
I think they made
around $2 billion
when all was said and done.
1767
01:24:55,209 --> 01:24:58,417
Foroohar: As I remember
the Netflix success,
1768
01:24:58,500 --> 01:25:00,667
and it was a huge
success for Carl,
1769
01:25:00,751 --> 01:25:01,751
was, whoa.
1770
01:25:01,834 --> 01:25:03,584
I mean, we knew
this guy was back,
1771
01:25:03,667 --> 01:25:05,959
but he's now back
and he gets tech.
1772
01:25:06,042 --> 01:25:07,417
(laughing) You know.
1773
01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:09,918
If I were the CEO of
a tech company at that stage,
1774
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:11,834
I would have been
a little worried
1775
01:25:11,918 --> 01:25:14,959
that I might be the next person
he was looking at.
1776
01:25:15,042 --> 01:25:20,459
(trance music playing)
1777
01:25:20,542 --> 01:25:22,876
Brett: Apple was
an example of a company
1778
01:25:22,959 --> 01:25:25,083
that was just really cheap
1779
01:25:25,167 --> 01:25:27,667
on a fundamental basis
of cash flow.
1780
01:25:27,751 --> 01:25:30,792
Brett noticed that Apple
had immense amounts of cash
1781
01:25:30,876 --> 01:25:32,417
sitting on its books,
1782
01:25:32,500 --> 01:25:36,876
and the stock price
wasn't reflecting that.
1783
01:25:36,959 --> 01:25:41,751
reporter:
Apple is now sitting on
almost $150 billion in cash.
1784
01:25:42,876 --> 01:25:44,751
It was about
the finances of Apple.
1785
01:25:44,834 --> 01:25:48,709
It was about, could Apple
buy back their own shares,
1786
01:25:48,792 --> 01:25:50,584
and if they were
able to do that,
1787
01:25:50,667 --> 01:25:53,167
how much more
of a higher valuation
1788
01:25:53,250 --> 01:25:56,042
should be ascribed
in the marketplace to Apple?
1789
01:25:56,125 --> 01:25:58,209
(percussive music playing)
1790
01:26:05,584 --> 01:26:07,876
When we pitched my father Apple,
1791
01:26:07,959 --> 01:26:11,250
it was just so easy for him
to see this cash problem.
1792
01:26:11,334 --> 01:26:14,459
For a guy like that,
to show him just
those basic fundamentals
1793
01:26:14,542 --> 01:26:17,584
about a company, he just
started salivating right away.
1794
01:26:19,709 --> 01:26:21,542
Carl:
When Twitter came out,
1795
01:26:21,626 --> 01:26:24,626
I, I didn't even know
what it was, frankly.
1796
01:26:24,709 --> 01:26:27,709
And Michelle, she comes up
with great ideas.
1797
01:26:27,792 --> 01:26:29,834
She said, "You ought to have
a Twitter account."
1798
01:26:29,918 --> 01:26:31,542
I said, "Come on,
I'm not gonna do that."
1799
01:26:31,626 --> 01:26:33,751
She says, "No, no, you have
to have a Twitter account."
1800
01:26:33,834 --> 01:26:36,167
And then, when we bought Apple,
1801
01:26:36,250 --> 01:26:37,834
she said,
"Well, let me tweet that,
1802
01:26:37,918 --> 01:26:39,459
that you own Apple."
1803
01:26:39,542 --> 01:26:41,459
So I said, "Okay, do it."
1804
01:26:54,459 --> 01:26:57,542
Foroohar: I remember
the tweet distinctly.
1805
01:26:57,626 --> 01:27:01,042
And, you know, the markets
kind of went nuts immediately.
1806
01:27:01,125 --> 01:27:03,125
reporter:
Apple shares in focus
1807
01:27:03,209 --> 01:27:04,959
after Carl Icahn disclosed
in a tweet
1808
01:27:05,042 --> 01:27:07,500
that he purchased
$500 million of Apple stock.
1809
01:27:07,584 --> 01:27:10,125
reporter 2: ...trying to get
a piece of Apple stock...
1810
01:27:10,209 --> 01:27:13,500
reporter 3: Announced he had
taken this stake on Twitter,
and Apple shares shot up.
1811
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:16,459
Lombardo:
Just from that tweet,
1812
01:27:16,542 --> 01:27:19,709
Apple's market value
jumped $17 billion.
1813
01:27:23,042 --> 01:27:24,751
Sorkin:
The view on Wall Street is,
1814
01:27:24,834 --> 01:27:27,000
what is Tim Cook gonna do
about this?
1815
01:27:27,083 --> 01:27:30,292
People wanna
appease Carl Icahn.
1816
01:27:30,375 --> 01:27:34,792
(trance music playing)
1817
01:27:34,876 --> 01:27:36,834
I think people couldn't fathom
1818
01:27:36,918 --> 01:27:40,751
that Carl Icahn was
having dinner with Tim Cook.
1819
01:27:40,834 --> 01:27:43,459
Tim Cook's visit to our home
for dinner
1820
01:27:43,542 --> 01:27:44,792
was a very exciting time.
1821
01:27:44,876 --> 01:27:47,417
We very carefully
went over the menu,
1822
01:27:47,500 --> 01:27:50,834
but I sort of like
to add my contribution.
1823
01:27:50,918 --> 01:27:56,500
For dessert, we had cookies
shaped in an apple shape
1824
01:27:56,584 --> 01:27:59,250
with another bite
taken out of it,
1825
01:27:59,334 --> 01:28:02,751
to symbolize (laughs)
the shareholders' investment.
1826
01:28:03,667 --> 01:28:05,751
(intense music playing)
1827
01:28:14,584 --> 01:28:17,417
Brett: So on the night
of the dinner with Tim Cook,
1828
01:28:17,500 --> 01:28:21,042
normally my father would
get there late, actually, but
I think he got there on time,
1829
01:28:21,125 --> 01:28:22,792
which is a huge compliment
to Tim Cook.
1830
01:28:22,876 --> 01:28:25,125
♪ ♪
1831
01:28:25,209 --> 01:28:26,626
We talked to Tim
1832
01:28:26,709 --> 01:28:29,334
about all the different stuff
going on within Apple.
1833
01:28:29,417 --> 01:28:32,959
You know,
anything that he could
tell us publicly, anyway.
1834
01:28:33,042 --> 01:28:35,000
And then eventually
the small talk evolved
1835
01:28:35,083 --> 01:28:39,542
into, "Hey, you should
buy back more stock."
1836
01:28:39,626 --> 01:28:42,292
Sorkin:
Carl clearly wanted to get Tim
1837
01:28:42,375 --> 01:28:45,250
to pursue
a massive buyback program.
1838
01:28:45,334 --> 01:28:50,834
And I think Tim wanted
to quiet the rhetoric.
1839
01:28:50,918 --> 01:28:52,375
♪ ♪
1840
01:28:52,459 --> 01:28:54,834
Carl: Now, I don't say every
company should do buybacks
1841
01:28:54,918 --> 01:28:56,834
for the purpose
of financial engineering.
1842
01:28:56,918 --> 01:28:58,834
In fact, it's overdone.
1843
01:28:58,918 --> 01:29:03,083
But in this case,
it was crazy for them
to have all of this cash around
1844
01:29:03,167 --> 01:29:05,000
and doing nothing with it.
1845
01:29:06,667 --> 01:29:09,250
Lombardo:
I think Carl expected to find
1846
01:29:09,334 --> 01:29:11,250
the typical resistant CEO
1847
01:29:11,334 --> 01:29:13,751
who he'd have to
a little bit strong-arm,
1848
01:29:13,834 --> 01:29:18,209
and Tim Cook sounds to have
been much more Zen about it.
1849
01:29:20,459 --> 01:29:22,209
reporter:
Apple said it had returned
1850
01:29:22,292 --> 01:29:24,542
74 billion to shareholders.
1851
01:29:24,626 --> 01:29:27,209
It plans to return 103 billion.
1852
01:29:27,292 --> 01:29:29,584
When I got the feeling
as an old poker player
1853
01:29:29,667 --> 01:29:32,876
that he wasn't really
displeased with the fact
1854
01:29:32,959 --> 01:29:35,959
that I was making a ruckus
about wanting to do a buyback.
1855
01:29:36,042 --> 01:29:37,709
I think he wanted
to do it himself,
1856
01:29:37,792 --> 01:29:40,667
but he had a board that was
rather reluctant to do it.
1857
01:29:40,751 --> 01:29:42,876
That's what I believe,
but he never said that.
1858
01:29:42,959 --> 01:29:45,626
I think the board
came around to doing it.
1859
01:29:45,709 --> 01:29:47,876
And that's how
those buybacks started.
1860
01:29:47,959 --> 01:29:50,626
Apple expanding
its capital return program
1861
01:29:50,709 --> 01:29:53,375
to $200 billion.
1862
01:29:53,459 --> 01:29:55,459
That was another billion five
right there.
1863
01:29:55,542 --> 01:29:56,834
Between Apple and Netflix,
1864
01:29:56,918 --> 01:29:59,042
we made for the company
about $3 billion,
1865
01:29:59,125 --> 01:30:02,292
and overall,
across all the investments,
1866
01:30:02,375 --> 01:30:06,459
over six years,
it was about 5 billion.
1867
01:30:06,542 --> 01:30:09,542
I'm really happy to make
my father that much money.
1868
01:30:11,334 --> 01:30:15,751
But I think I was worthy
of the Icahn name before that.
1869
01:30:15,834 --> 01:30:17,667
He made his father
billions of dollars.
1870
01:30:17,751 --> 01:30:21,834
He got his own hundreds
of millions of dollars payday
at the end,
1871
01:30:21,918 --> 01:30:23,709
and he even flirted
with the idea
1872
01:30:23,792 --> 01:30:25,417
of setting up his own firm.
1873
01:30:32,292 --> 01:30:34,542
Brett: Wait, wait,
we start it together.
1874
01:30:36,792 --> 01:30:39,709
Lombardo: There were
rumblings on Wall Street
1875
01:30:39,792 --> 01:30:41,083
for years that,
1876
01:30:41,167 --> 01:30:45,125
what would come of Carl Icahn
and Icahn Enterprises?
1877
01:30:45,209 --> 01:30:47,667
Would his son Brett take over?
Would he not?
1878
01:30:47,751 --> 01:30:49,542
Was there someone else
in the picture?
1879
01:30:49,626 --> 01:30:51,250
(engine puttering)
1880
01:30:51,334 --> 01:30:53,792
Brett: I think it was always
a complicated issue for me
1881
01:30:53,876 --> 01:30:56,918
because he has some big shoes
that I would have to walk in.
1882
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,334
It's like, do you want
to spend your whole life
1883
01:30:59,417 --> 01:31:02,500
being compared to this
larger-than-life, you know,
1884
01:31:02,584 --> 01:31:04,500
greatest financier
of all time?
1885
01:31:04,584 --> 01:31:06,209
Um...
1886
01:31:06,292 --> 01:31:08,876
It's an issue.
1887
01:31:08,959 --> 01:31:10,334
Have you read the contract?
1888
01:31:10,417 --> 01:31:12,542
I mean, with you and Jesse,
what Jesse sent you?
1889
01:31:12,626 --> 01:31:15,584
-I've been reading it, yeah.
-Are you gonna get it
finished up?
1890
01:31:15,667 --> 01:31:18,209
-We got a lot to talk about.
-I know.
1891
01:31:18,292 --> 01:31:21,792
I asked Carl, "Is it true
that Brett will be coming back?"
1892
01:31:21,876 --> 01:31:24,876
And Carl said,
"You know, we've been trying
to negotiate a deal."
1893
01:31:24,959 --> 01:31:26,375
It's been over a year now,
though,
1894
01:31:26,459 --> 01:31:28,834
and the contract has already
stretched to 90 pages.
1895
01:31:28,918 --> 01:31:32,667
It sounds like he was
approaching this negotiation
with his son
1896
01:31:32,751 --> 01:31:34,584
the way he would
approach a business deal.
1897
01:31:34,667 --> 01:31:36,918
You should see what Jesse
did to the previous version.
1898
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:39,292
I mean, it's like, uh...
a totally rewritten document.
1899
01:31:39,375 --> 01:31:40,334
Eh, he does that.
1900
01:31:40,417 --> 01:31:43,667
Jesse.
Oh, Jesse, poor Jesse.
1901
01:31:44,250 --> 01:31:46,334
(chuckles)
1902
01:31:46,417 --> 01:31:49,417
I think Carl and Brett
have a very similar style
of negotiation,
1903
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:52,000
which makes it very tough
to mediate between them.
1904
01:31:52,083 --> 01:31:53,792
I think, you know,
Carl would readily admit,
1905
01:31:53,876 --> 01:31:56,417
I think he, uh, he trained
Brett a little too well.
1906
01:31:56,500 --> 01:31:58,834
You're cheating.
If you go through the trees,
it doesn't count.
1907
01:31:58,918 --> 01:32:00,834
Well, he's afraid.
I beat him.
1908
01:32:00,918 --> 01:32:04,626
I'm afraid? I won four races
and you only won one.
1909
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:08,792
Big shot, listen, big shot.
I won one, you won two.
1910
01:32:08,876 --> 01:32:11,250
Am I Carl Icahn's
official successor?
1911
01:32:11,334 --> 01:32:15,500
I just don't know if I can
say the word officially.
1912
01:32:15,584 --> 01:32:20,459
(contemplative music playing)
1913
01:32:20,542 --> 01:32:23,125
-Carl: Oh, yeah, yeah.
-Gail: You're sittin'
in the egg.
1914
01:32:28,209 --> 01:32:32,125
Gail: We had this house
in Miami for a long time
1915
01:32:32,209 --> 01:32:34,375
and didn't use it very much.
1916
01:32:34,459 --> 01:32:38,751
But as time went on,
we decided that it was
a very nice lifestyle
1917
01:32:38,834 --> 01:32:42,500
to be able to live
here on this island.
1918
01:32:42,584 --> 01:32:46,083
It became clear that we
enjoyed it so much
1919
01:32:46,167 --> 01:32:48,292
that perhaps
we should think about
1920
01:32:48,375 --> 01:32:51,542
moving our offices
down here as well.
1921
01:32:51,626 --> 01:32:55,292
♪ ♪
1922
01:32:58,834 --> 01:33:00,959
(upbeat music playing)
1923
01:33:04,083 --> 01:33:05,584
That's down 160,
1924
01:33:05,667 --> 01:33:07,918
no, 160-- 100?
That's further down...
1925
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:10,459
Gail: Thirty minutes that
it takes to get to the office,
1926
01:33:10,542 --> 01:33:13,417
it's a great time for him
to just collect his thoughts
1927
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:14,876
when he's starting his day.
1928
01:33:15,626 --> 01:33:18,751
♪ ♪
1929
01:33:18,834 --> 01:33:22,042
And he loves
being on the water.
1930
01:33:22,125 --> 01:33:23,876
♪ ♪
1931
01:33:23,959 --> 01:33:26,042
Carl: "I began
my career on Wall Street
1932
01:33:26,125 --> 01:33:27,626
"nearly 50 years ago.
1933
01:33:27,709 --> 01:33:30,334
"From a modest upbringing
in Queens, New York,
1934
01:33:30,417 --> 01:33:32,626
I have been fortunate enough
to accumulate..."
1935
01:33:32,709 --> 01:33:36,125
Bill Gates:
I first met Carl Icahn
at a Giving Pledge dinner,
1936
01:33:36,209 --> 01:33:39,125
where we were bringing together
people who had large wealth.
1937
01:33:39,209 --> 01:33:41,542
♪ ♪
1938
01:33:41,626 --> 01:33:45,626
And Carl did agree
to join the pledge,
1939
01:33:45,709 --> 01:33:47,667
which means the majority
of his wealth
1940
01:33:47,751 --> 01:33:50,083
will go
to philanthropic causes.
1941
01:33:54,125 --> 01:33:56,000
You know, he helped me
with polio.
1942
01:33:56,083 --> 01:34:00,918
He supported his wife's
activities in charter schools.
1943
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:03,375
Sorkin:
Carl's, to his credit,
been charitable.
1944
01:34:03,459 --> 01:34:06,709
But because money is his army,
1945
01:34:06,792 --> 01:34:09,209
and because he still enjoys
doing what he does
1946
01:34:09,292 --> 01:34:12,542
and he needs the money
to have the leverage,
1947
01:34:12,626 --> 01:34:15,334
he probably has not obviously
been able to give away
1948
01:34:15,417 --> 01:34:17,918
the majority of his wealth, yet.
1949
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,667
What's the relationship
between the two halves
of this paradox?
1950
01:34:20,751 --> 01:34:22,834
On the one hand, you got
all these generous rich people,
1951
01:34:22,918 --> 01:34:24,709
on the other hand,
you have the fact
1952
01:34:24,792 --> 01:34:27,167
that it's an age of inequality,
an age of anger.
1953
01:34:27,250 --> 01:34:29,167
(intense music playing)
1954
01:34:29,250 --> 01:34:32,417
The 25 richest Americans
in federal income taxes,
1955
01:34:32,500 --> 01:34:35,792
they paid relatively little
and sometimes nothing.
1956
01:34:35,876 --> 01:34:37,417
The political narrative
right now is that
1957
01:34:37,500 --> 01:34:40,125
average Americans should look
at guys like Carl and say,
1958
01:34:40,209 --> 01:34:41,751
"Ah, they shouldn't have
that much money,"
1959
01:34:41,834 --> 01:34:44,375
and, all right, I don't know
whether Carl should
or shouldn't.
1960
01:34:45,876 --> 01:34:47,334
Carl:
The wealth gap between
1961
01:34:47,417 --> 01:34:49,000
the very rich
and the very poor
1962
01:34:49,083 --> 01:34:50,792
is getting wider and wider.
1963
01:34:50,876 --> 01:34:54,876
Part of it is the ridiculous
amount of money
1964
01:34:54,959 --> 01:34:58,209
that top management is paid
for doing a poor job.
1965
01:34:58,292 --> 01:35:02,250
Most CEOs are way overpaid.
That's not even a secret.
1966
01:35:02,334 --> 01:35:06,459
However, I have
no objection to people
1967
01:35:06,542 --> 01:35:09,667
that risk their own capital
for profit.
1968
01:35:09,751 --> 01:35:12,042
I mean,
what incentivizes people
1969
01:35:12,125 --> 01:35:13,584
is feeling they're
going to be rewarded.
1970
01:35:13,667 --> 01:35:15,959
The free enterprise system
is supposed to be there.
1971
01:35:16,042 --> 01:35:18,626
(intense digital music playing)
1972
01:35:23,250 --> 01:35:24,792
(elevator bell dings)
1973
01:35:24,876 --> 01:35:26,334
Carl:
Thank you.
1974
01:35:26,417 --> 01:35:28,792
-We need a piece here.
-Yeah.
1975
01:35:28,876 --> 01:35:30,876
A sculpture.
1976
01:35:30,959 --> 01:35:33,459
Do you like the paintings
on the wall?
1977
01:35:34,709 --> 01:35:37,584
Carl:
I think it's too many.
1978
01:35:37,667 --> 01:35:39,334
Too much.
1979
01:35:40,792 --> 01:35:43,292
How you doing?
Everything going good today?
1980
01:35:43,375 --> 01:35:44,751
man: Good, yeah.
1981
01:35:44,834 --> 01:35:47,459
We're going to have
you guys, the brain trust.
1982
01:35:47,542 --> 01:35:49,250
Talk to you later.
1983
01:35:49,334 --> 01:35:51,959
Brettsky.
1984
01:35:52,042 --> 01:35:56,167
♪ ♪
1985
01:35:56,250 --> 01:35:58,792
Carl and Brett
finally reach a deal
1986
01:35:58,876 --> 01:36:01,209
for Brett to return
to Icahn Enterprises.
1987
01:36:01,292 --> 01:36:03,542
If you just do it
pro rata yourself,
1988
01:36:03,626 --> 01:36:06,042
it doesn't really help out
your return very much.
1989
01:36:06,125 --> 01:36:08,375
Then it doesn't matter
about the 10%, then.
1990
01:36:08,459 --> 01:36:11,667
Lombardo: Brett will come
to Carl with investment ideas.
1991
01:36:11,751 --> 01:36:14,417
Carl will get the final say
over whether or not
they do them.
1992
01:36:14,500 --> 01:36:17,667
Anything that they invest in,
Brett has to put a little bit
of his own money in.
1993
01:36:17,751 --> 01:36:19,542
You might have this job.
1994
01:36:19,626 --> 01:36:21,042
Cara:
So Carl got comfortable
1995
01:36:21,125 --> 01:36:22,959
because he's
still squarely in charge.
1996
01:36:23,042 --> 01:36:24,792
Brett:
It's exciting.
1997
01:36:24,876 --> 01:36:27,042
It's as close to
an official succession plan
1998
01:36:27,125 --> 01:36:28,292
as you're gonna get,
1999
01:36:28,375 --> 01:36:32,292
and Carl Icahn
is gonna keep working
2000
01:36:32,375 --> 01:36:34,667
until he cannot work anymore,
2001
01:36:34,751 --> 01:36:36,876
and hopefully that's
a long time from now.
2002
01:36:39,626 --> 01:36:41,250
Carl: I like this.
2003
01:36:41,334 --> 01:36:44,375
-This is nice.
-Yeah. Very nice.
2004
01:36:45,709 --> 01:36:49,459
(Perry Como playing
"Catch a Falling Star")
2005
01:36:49,542 --> 01:36:51,042
♪ Catch a falling star ♪
2006
01:36:51,125 --> 01:36:53,542
♪ And put it in your pocket ♪
2007
01:36:53,626 --> 01:36:57,083
♪ Never let it fade away ♪
2008
01:36:57,167 --> 01:37:00,584
And they wanted me to settle,
everybody settles.
I said, "I'm not settling."
2009
01:37:00,667 --> 01:37:02,000
nephew:
Happy birthday.
2010
01:37:02,083 --> 01:37:03,626
Oh, let me see this.
2011
01:37:03,709 --> 01:37:05,125
That is the coolest thing.
2012
01:37:05,209 --> 01:37:06,500
-Las Vegas.
-I'm keeping--
2013
01:37:06,584 --> 01:37:08,292
-This is the coolest.
-Yeah, it's for you.
2014
01:37:08,375 --> 01:37:09,834
-Wait, um...
-Where is my office?
2015
01:37:09,918 --> 01:37:12,209
Mom told me that you rented
this place or something?
2016
01:37:12,292 --> 01:37:13,918
-Gail: He owned that place.
-He owned that.
2017
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:15,959
I owned the Stratosphere!
2018
01:37:16,042 --> 01:37:19,125
(indistinct chatter)
2019
01:37:20,792 --> 01:37:21,959
♪ ♪
2020
01:37:22,042 --> 01:37:24,918
1978 is when
our paths crossed.
2021
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,417
Hard to believe
it's 42 years ago...
2022
01:37:27,500 --> 01:37:29,292
Sorkin:
I think that Carl Icahn's had
2023
01:37:29,375 --> 01:37:32,417
a profound impact on society.
2024
01:37:32,500 --> 01:37:35,375
I think he has changed the way
2025
01:37:35,459 --> 01:37:36,959
boards of directors operate,
2026
01:37:37,042 --> 01:37:38,250
the way companies think...
2027
01:37:38,334 --> 01:37:39,542
Gail:
Cheers!
2028
01:37:39,626 --> 01:37:41,209
Sorkin:
...the way shareholders think.
2029
01:37:41,292 --> 01:37:43,709
I think all that
has been impacted
2030
01:37:43,792 --> 01:37:45,417
by Carl Icahn.
2031
01:37:45,500 --> 01:37:47,876
(intense music playing)
2032
01:37:52,667 --> 01:37:54,918
Foroohar:
I sometimes wonder
if peak Carl
2033
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:56,417
doesn't represent
some kind of shift
2034
01:37:56,500 --> 01:38:00,667
in the direction of capitalism
in this country.
2035
01:38:00,751 --> 01:38:03,375
♪ ♪
2036
01:38:03,459 --> 01:38:06,459
Lombardo:
You can't deny that Carl
is a seminal figure
2037
01:38:06,542 --> 01:38:08,500
of capitalism
in the last 50 years.
2038
01:38:08,584 --> 01:38:10,667
He's a lot of different things
rolled up in one.
2039
01:38:10,751 --> 01:38:13,626
I think that's part
of the reason that people
are so captivated by him.
2040
01:38:13,709 --> 01:38:15,083
♪ ♪
2041
01:38:15,167 --> 01:38:18,834
Wapner:
Maybe some people
see Carl as everything
2042
01:38:18,918 --> 01:38:21,959
that's wrong
with the current system,
2043
01:38:22,042 --> 01:38:24,709
that people are becoming
too rich.
2044
01:38:26,709 --> 01:38:29,584
I think the other side
of that is that you could
make an argument that...
2045
01:38:29,667 --> 01:38:32,626
Carl Icahn is
capitalism at its best.
2046
01:38:32,709 --> 01:38:35,584
A guy who grew up with
not much,
2047
01:38:35,667 --> 01:38:37,876
who worked his butt off
2048
01:38:37,959 --> 01:38:41,626
and became one of the richest
men in the world.
2049
01:38:41,709 --> 01:38:46,000
-Carl: Oh, God, this is it.
-♪ Happy birthday to you ♪
2050
01:38:46,083 --> 01:38:47,918
Oh, thank you.
Thank you very much.
2051
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:50,459
-What, do I make a wish?
-Gail: You gotta make a wish.
2052
01:38:53,375 --> 01:38:56,334
♪ ♪
2053
01:38:56,417 --> 01:38:58,876
Carl: It's like Alexander
the Great, right?
2054
01:38:58,959 --> 01:39:02,626
He's 31 years old
and he won Persia.
2055
01:39:02,709 --> 01:39:06,292
To everybody in the world,
he was the best
and the greatest.
2056
01:39:06,375 --> 01:39:08,584
But he cried
because he didn't think
2057
01:39:08,667 --> 01:39:12,626
there was any place else
to go to do a battle.
2058
01:39:12,709 --> 01:39:17,500
He put his army together
and then he went to India.
2059
01:39:19,542 --> 01:39:23,042
The army all worshiped him,
but a lot of them deserted
2060
01:39:23,125 --> 01:39:25,167
'cause they said he's crazy.
2061
01:39:25,250 --> 01:39:28,542
He just kept going and going
till they killed him.
2062
01:39:28,626 --> 01:39:31,918
And I think about that.
I'm a little bit like that.
2063
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,167
Just keep going at it.
2064
01:39:35,834 --> 01:39:38,042
Okay, I'll leave that there.
2065
01:39:39,292 --> 01:39:40,709
Okay, I think you got
everything.
2066
01:39:40,792 --> 01:39:42,626
Bruce:
We didn't get everything.
We got a lot...
2067
01:39:42,709 --> 01:39:44,834
Well, I'm not doing any more.
Don't even think about it.
2068
01:39:44,918 --> 01:39:47,125
Bruce: No, no, no.
For this, for right now,
we did everything.
2069
01:39:47,209 --> 01:39:50,000
Carl: No, what do you mean,
for right now? Wait a minute.
I'm not doing this.
2070
01:39:50,083 --> 01:39:52,167
(intense digital music playing)
2071
01:40:02,626 --> 01:40:06,167
So, one time they wanted
to build this terrace
behind my house.
2072
01:40:06,250 --> 01:40:08,250
My grandfather lived upstairs,
see, so he said,
2073
01:40:08,334 --> 01:40:10,584
"Look, if you give me bricks,
I'll build a terrace."
2074
01:40:10,667 --> 01:40:13,083
And my mother said, "We can't
afford to pay for bricks."
2075
01:40:13,167 --> 01:40:14,751
So I was tired of the arguing.
2076
01:40:14,834 --> 01:40:17,667
So I'm in this gang
with those hoodlums,
2077
01:40:17,751 --> 01:40:19,584
those friends of mine,
so I said,
2078
01:40:19,667 --> 01:40:21,751
"Get your wagons, guys,"
and they listened to me.
2079
01:40:21,834 --> 01:40:23,083
"Okay, Carl,
what are we doing?"
2080
01:40:23,167 --> 01:40:24,626
I said, "We're gonna
take bricks, see?
2081
01:40:24,709 --> 01:40:27,000
"Nobody will miss them because
we'll take three bricks here,
2082
01:40:27,083 --> 01:40:29,709
four bricks there."
"Okay, that's fun."
2083
01:40:29,792 --> 01:40:31,667
♪ ♪
2084
01:40:37,334 --> 01:40:38,918
So we come back
with all these bricks.
2085
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:40,542
My grandfather's excited.
"This is great."
2086
01:40:40,626 --> 01:40:42,542
"I can build a terrace."
And my mother comes home,
2087
01:40:42,626 --> 01:40:44,500
says, "What is that?"
I say,
2088
01:40:44,584 --> 01:40:47,709
"They're bricks, Ma.
I got bricks for you
to build your terrace."
2089
01:40:47,792 --> 01:40:50,000
And she says, "We can't steal.
2090
01:40:50,083 --> 01:40:51,959
That is wrong."
2091
01:40:52,042 --> 01:40:53,959
I said, "You cut the bullshit."
2092
01:40:54,042 --> 01:40:56,709
I said, "You, first of all,
you keep talking about
2093
01:40:56,792 --> 01:40:59,250
you hate these builders, they're
all making too much money."
2094
01:40:59,334 --> 01:41:01,500
And she goes,
"Don't talk to me like that."
2095
01:41:01,584 --> 01:41:04,250
And my father says,
"Hey, who's gonna miss 'em?
2096
01:41:04,334 --> 01:41:06,000
They're not gonna miss 'em."
2097
01:41:06,083 --> 01:41:10,083
"Yeah... I guess they weren't
gonna use them anyway."
2098
01:41:10,167 --> 01:41:13,083
And we, "Here's the bricks,"
and we took 'em out.
That was it.
2099
01:41:13,167 --> 01:41:14,792
I just, I'll never forget that.
2100
01:41:14,876 --> 01:41:16,876
♪ ♪