WEBVTT FILE 1 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:17.365 --> 00:00:19.497 It's a medium, God damn it. 4 00:00:22.805 --> 00:00:24.502 It ain't gonna fit me. 5 00:00:28.376 --> 00:00:29.725 -Look at that. 6 00:00:30.508 --> 00:00:32.423 Oh, it's exactly-- 7 00:00:32.467 --> 00:00:34.382 It's exactly what I have, but it's a medium, 8 00:00:34.425 --> 00:00:36.079 I don't think it's gonna fit. 9 00:00:36.123 --> 00:00:38.212 -You need a large? -Yeah, minimum. 10 00:00:41.128 --> 00:00:43.260 I can't wear a shirt unless it has a stain on it. 11 00:00:43.304 --> 00:00:45.610 If you wear a shirt that doesn't have a stain on it, 12 00:00:45.654 --> 00:00:46.742 it's not a shirt. 13 00:00:49.701 --> 00:00:52.313 One of the biggest problems I have is my memory. 14 00:00:54.706 --> 00:00:56.317 I just wanna forget everything. 15 00:00:58.275 --> 00:00:59.450 Unfortunately, I can't. 16 00:01:01.583 --> 00:01:03.541 -You raised her-- -The past haunts me. 17 00:01:05.848 --> 00:01:08.416 Do these animals deserve the same protections 18 00:01:08.459 --> 00:01:11.288 given to other species? 19 00:01:11.332 --> 00:01:13.508 Or should they just be left to die? 20 00:01:17.729 --> 00:01:19.340 These creatures were here before us. 21 00:01:22.299 --> 00:01:24.649 I guess Netflix is doing the thing on Jurassic. 22 00:01:26.999 --> 00:01:28.349 They want to hear the real story. 23 00:01:29.741 --> 00:01:31.917 Not a revisionist history version. 24 00:01:34.355 --> 00:01:36.096 We're in "C" Theater 25 00:01:36.139 --> 00:01:39.838 at 3210 Kerner Boulevard, San Rafael, California, 26 00:01:39.882 --> 00:01:41.318 the old ILM facility. 27 00:01:42.798 --> 00:01:44.365 In this theater is where we projected 28 00:01:44.408 --> 00:01:46.323 every single one of the shots 29 00:01:46.367 --> 00:01:47.977 that we knew was gonna change the entire film industry. 30 00:01:53.765 --> 00:01:57.160 When the T-Rex took a step, you had a secondary jiggle. 31 00:01:57.204 --> 00:01:59.336 So, I had separate channels of animation 32 00:01:59.380 --> 00:02:01.295 of literally a digital bladder 33 00:02:01.730 --> 00:02:03.514 hung off the hierarchy of the leg, 34 00:02:03.558 --> 00:02:05.386 so it shook on the bone. 35 00:02:05.429 --> 00:02:07.083 So, if the bladder shook, 36 00:02:07.127 --> 00:02:09.607 the outside control vertices shook as well. 37 00:02:09.651 --> 00:02:11.261 So, every time the Rex took a step, 38 00:02:11.305 --> 00:02:13.307 you had to have a massive amount of shake 39 00:02:13.350 --> 00:02:15.004 of this muscle. 40 00:02:15.047 --> 00:02:16.527 A lot of people are always referring back to it 41 00:02:16.571 --> 00:02:18.616 being the best of all the Jurassics. 42 00:02:18.660 --> 00:02:19.922 And now, what is it? 43 00:02:19.965 --> 00:02:21.750 World domination of everything-- 44 00:02:21.793 --> 00:02:23.882 I mean the "Giganotosaurus", that's the latest one. 45 00:02:23.926 --> 00:02:25.710 It was like three times the size of the Rex. 46 00:02:25.754 --> 00:02:28.017 "It is? Oh, I better go see the sequel." 47 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:30.715 Why don't they just merge Star Wars and Jurassic together 48 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:32.761 and come up with one big mega movie? 49 00:02:32.804 --> 00:02:34.632 You know, it's like dinosaurs in space 50 00:02:34.676 --> 00:02:36.286 and everyone's shooting each other, you know? 51 00:02:42.684 --> 00:02:44.555 I'm naive, I guess, 52 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:45.948 when it comes to a lot of stuff. 53 00:02:48.472 --> 00:02:50.170 And you get burned, y'know. 54 00:02:52.302 --> 00:02:53.390 You get burned. 55 00:02:57.133 --> 00:02:59.179 Things are so simple now, right? 56 00:03:01.877 --> 00:03:03.400 Looking back at the ILM days, 57 00:03:03.444 --> 00:03:05.359 it's almost like it was a weird dream. 58 00:03:08.710 --> 00:03:11.278 Even though I was using machines as a tool back then, 59 00:03:12.453 --> 00:03:14.281 I myself was stuck in a machine. 60 00:03:16.108 --> 00:03:18.198 And this whole thing about blind curiosity, 61 00:03:18.241 --> 00:03:19.677 trying to, A, prove it yourself, 62 00:03:19.721 --> 00:03:21.375 and B, you know, 63 00:03:21.418 --> 00:03:23.768 prove it to the world, you can do something. 64 00:03:23.812 --> 00:03:24.900 Little did I know... 65 00:03:26.162 --> 00:03:27.555 y'know, I created a monster. 66 00:03:30.601 --> 00:03:32.603 And joining me now in the studio 67 00:03:32.647 --> 00:03:34.779 is the chief animator at Lucasfilm, Steve Williams. 68 00:03:34.823 --> 00:03:37.260 George Lucas' Industrial Light and Magic Company, 69 00:03:37.304 --> 00:03:39.044 the folks who provided special effects 70 00:03:39.088 --> 00:03:40.916 for Star Wars, is going commercial. 71 00:03:40.959 --> 00:03:42.918 These hummingbirds are not real. 72 00:03:42.961 --> 00:03:45.703 Animator Steve Williams sketches out a line drawing 73 00:03:45.747 --> 00:03:47.662 on a computer screen. 74 00:03:47.705 --> 00:03:49.446 It was never Steve's intention to combine 75 00:03:49.490 --> 00:03:51.709 his classical animation training with computers, 76 00:03:51.753 --> 00:03:53.842 but now colleagues marvel, 77 00:03:53.885 --> 00:03:56.279 they've never seen anyone create life so realistically. 78 00:03:56.323 --> 00:03:58.325 It was not biotechnology 79 00:03:58.368 --> 00:04:01.241 that brought the dinosaurs to life inJurassic Park. 80 00:04:01.284 --> 00:04:03.025 Animator Steve Williams 81 00:04:03.068 --> 00:04:05.288 used a computer to bring the T-Rex to life. 82 00:04:05.332 --> 00:04:07.290 The Universal Studios picture 83 00:04:07.334 --> 00:04:09.901 could generate as much as $50 million this weekend. 84 00:04:09.945 --> 00:04:11.686 Other studios in town will not open 85 00:04:11.729 --> 00:04:13.514 any of their pictures against it. 86 00:04:13.557 --> 00:04:15.211 Williams is one of the hottest 87 00:04:15.255 --> 00:04:16.778 computer animators in Hollywood. 88 00:04:16.821 --> 00:04:18.432 Spreading his message 89 00:04:18.475 --> 00:04:19.694 that computer animation is about art, 90 00:04:19.737 --> 00:04:21.086 not technology. 91 00:04:24.002 --> 00:04:26.004 I mean, is there anything that worries you about this? 92 00:04:26.048 --> 00:04:27.963 Oh, yeah, I-- I think it's pretty-- 93 00:04:28.006 --> 00:04:29.921 I-- I don't think it's a good thing, but it's-- 94 00:04:29.965 --> 00:04:31.488 Well, so, you're sort of like Dr. Frankenstein. 95 00:04:43.021 --> 00:04:45.894 Everybody thinks that chaos is completely random. 96 00:04:47.504 --> 00:04:49.071 There is no such thing as random. 97 00:04:50.725 --> 00:04:52.596 Every single variable is calculatable. 98 00:04:53.728 --> 00:04:55.947 And math is nothing but a language 99 00:04:55.991 --> 00:04:58.994 to try and describe what nature already knows. 100 00:05:02.302 --> 00:05:03.955 We're so steeped in the rules... 101 00:05:05.522 --> 00:05:08.960 so when you think differently, you're seen as a heretic. 102 00:05:09.004 --> 00:05:14.052 ♪ 103 00:05:22.409 --> 00:05:24.628 I know I was different, you know, I-- I knew it. 104 00:05:25.847 --> 00:05:27.065 I've always been different. 105 00:05:29.024 --> 00:05:32.027 I had visions about how things are gonna be... 106 00:05:33.245 --> 00:05:35.683 and not should be, but just are going to be. 107 00:05:37.641 --> 00:05:39.774 Especially about, you know, synthetic imagery. 108 00:05:40.775 --> 00:05:43.168 Here's a low-resolution data of the T-Rex, 109 00:05:43.212 --> 00:05:44.735 and most of these points here 110 00:05:44.779 --> 00:05:46.607 where each one of the bones were. 111 00:05:46.650 --> 00:05:48.130 Jurassic Park storyboards. 112 00:05:48.739 --> 00:05:51.742 "SS approved" means Steven Spielberg approved. 113 00:05:51.786 --> 00:05:53.614 Chase scene four. 114 00:05:53.657 --> 00:05:55.572 75 frames. Took me four months to animate this shot. 115 00:05:57.748 --> 00:06:00.490 Here's somebody that was fundamental 116 00:06:00.534 --> 00:06:03.580 at that time, in-- in, uh, the-- the, 117 00:06:03.624 --> 00:06:07.497 um, progress of this disruptive technology. 118 00:06:08.063 --> 00:06:10.587 But, the way that I know him now, 119 00:06:10.631 --> 00:06:12.328 he mainly likes to blacksmith, 120 00:06:12.372 --> 00:06:13.982 and we end up hanging out in the shop 121 00:06:14.025 --> 00:06:16.506 because he likes to get his hands dirty, 122 00:06:16.550 --> 00:06:17.638 just like I do. 123 00:06:18.508 --> 00:06:19.814 We all called him Spaz. 124 00:06:20.292 --> 00:06:22.469 Now, calling Steve Williams "Spaz," 125 00:06:22.512 --> 00:06:24.645 was, uh, a nickname, 126 00:06:24.688 --> 00:06:27.648 like, that giant guy in high school 127 00:06:27.691 --> 00:06:29.780 that everybody called Tiny. 128 00:06:29.824 --> 00:06:31.782 Hey, Spaz, my, how you doing, buddy? 129 00:06:31.826 --> 00:06:35.177 That character with the pocket protector 130 00:06:35.220 --> 00:06:38.485 and the thick glasses, he was the opposite. 131 00:06:39.486 --> 00:06:42.358 Here was a motorcycle-riding, 132 00:06:42.402 --> 00:06:45.317 leather-jacket-wearing guy, 133 00:06:45.361 --> 00:06:47.189 who's the first one that I ever met, 134 00:06:47.232 --> 00:06:48.320 that was an artist, 135 00:06:48.364 --> 00:06:49.974 who had computer 136 00:06:50.018 --> 00:06:52.412 and high-mathematical skills. 137 00:06:53.369 --> 00:06:57.155 Like Michelangelo took corpses and dissected them, 138 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:01.203 Spaz is a guy who kind of dissected life a little bit. 139 00:07:01.246 --> 00:07:03.379 I was just amazed by how things worked. 140 00:07:03.988 --> 00:07:05.773 My whole life I was driven by how things work. 141 00:07:06.730 --> 00:07:09.429 Cartoons deviated from the rules 142 00:07:09.472 --> 00:07:11.039 of the way nature operates. 143 00:07:11.605 --> 00:07:13.650 It was sort of questioning convention. 144 00:07:14.303 --> 00:07:16.784 -You're questioning reality. 145 00:07:16.827 --> 00:07:18.612 Good he's got that going for me. 146 00:07:18.655 --> 00:07:20.135 Got that going at me. 147 00:07:20.178 --> 00:07:21.441 Sheridan College in Toronto. 148 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:23.660 All of us are misfits. 149 00:07:24.400 --> 00:07:26.446 We didn't think conventionally. 150 00:07:26.489 --> 00:07:28.404 We're these, like, these strange artists. 151 00:07:28.970 --> 00:07:31.407 I decided to take classical animation. 152 00:07:31.451 --> 00:07:33.409 Then, I took computer engineering, 153 00:07:33.453 --> 00:07:35.019 University of Toronto. 154 00:07:35.063 --> 00:07:37.326 Then I joined a company in Toronto called Alias, 155 00:07:37.369 --> 00:07:39.676 using computers to do animation. 156 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:41.504 No one really thought about it that way. 157 00:07:42.113 --> 00:07:43.550 They thought it for data processing, 158 00:07:43.593 --> 00:07:44.681 they didn't really think about it 159 00:07:44.725 --> 00:07:45.900 for actually animating. 160 00:07:46.596 --> 00:07:48.816 I was attempting to try and replicate the real world 161 00:07:48.859 --> 00:07:50.295 in a synthetic environment. 162 00:07:51.122 --> 00:07:53.211 There were very few people in the world that knew Alias, 163 00:07:53.255 --> 00:07:55.910 three-dimensional computer graphics back in 1988. 164 00:07:56.650 --> 00:07:58.652 I was working on a system called the "CIWS," 165 00:07:58.695 --> 00:08:00.828 it was a Gatling gun that, for the most part, 166 00:08:00.871 --> 00:08:02.743 sat on Iowa-class battleships. 167 00:08:03.744 --> 00:08:05.180 The simulation I was working, 168 00:08:05.223 --> 00:08:06.964 had the fluorocarbon cooling system. 169 00:08:07.748 --> 00:08:09.793 ILM, Industrial Light Magic, 170 00:08:09.837 --> 00:08:11.621 got wind that there was somebody 171 00:08:11.665 --> 00:08:13.231 that actually knew something about fluid dynamics. 172 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:15.973 They're working on a movie 173 00:08:16.017 --> 00:08:18.280 where there's a water creature. 174 00:08:18.323 --> 00:08:20.108 Now, you see water doing things 175 00:08:20.151 --> 00:08:22.502 all the time, but back in the day, 176 00:08:22.545 --> 00:08:24.547 you said, "Well, it's gonna be water that comes alive, 177 00:08:24.591 --> 00:08:26.418 and then the face comes out of the water." 178 00:08:27.245 --> 00:08:28.508 People would just blank out. 179 00:08:29.726 --> 00:08:32.381 It was a big question mark for everybody. 180 00:08:32.424 --> 00:08:34.426 What Jim had seen in computer graphics 181 00:08:34.470 --> 00:08:35.819 up to that point, 182 00:08:35.863 --> 00:08:37.299 was all the other prior films 183 00:08:37.342 --> 00:08:38.909 that had used computer graphics, 184 00:08:38.953 --> 00:08:40.563 like Last Starfighter, and Tron, 185 00:08:40.607 --> 00:08:42.304 and even Young Sherlock Holmes. 186 00:08:43.087 --> 00:08:45.263 CG had an artificiality to it. 187 00:08:46.351 --> 00:08:49.659 We were looking for a photo-real thing. 188 00:08:49.703 --> 00:08:52.096 His previous films, Terminatorand Aliens, 189 00:08:52.140 --> 00:08:54.925 they were about thrills and action. 190 00:08:56.797 --> 00:09:00.278 They were not about just a straight sense of wonder. 191 00:09:01.323 --> 00:09:03.368 He really wanted to show that he could do that. 192 00:09:04.500 --> 00:09:07.459 We clearly needed additional talent 193 00:09:07.503 --> 00:09:10.027 and we found Steve Williams. 194 00:09:11.376 --> 00:09:14.118 The quality was paramount. 195 00:09:14.162 --> 00:09:15.772 If we were gonna be successful, 196 00:09:15.816 --> 00:09:18.079 this stuff had to be not just good enough, 197 00:09:18.122 --> 00:09:20.429 it had to be great, it had to be convincing, 198 00:09:20.472 --> 00:09:22.039 it had to be something 199 00:09:22.083 --> 00:09:25.216 that ultimately no one had ever seen before. 200 00:09:26.696 --> 00:09:28.480 So I ended up at Industrial Light Magic, 201 00:09:28.524 --> 00:09:31.614 and I got hired in October of 1988 202 00:09:31.658 --> 00:09:33.529 to be Chief Animator on The Abyss. 203 00:09:34.878 --> 00:09:36.358 We had two machines, 204 00:09:36.401 --> 00:09:39.187 Silicon Graphics GT60 and a GT80. 205 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:41.276 The first thing I had to do 206 00:09:41.319 --> 00:09:43.670 was figure out how to animate the spine 207 00:09:43.713 --> 00:09:44.801 of the pseudopod. 208 00:09:45.672 --> 00:09:47.282 "The Water Weenie" was the nickname. 209 00:09:48.239 --> 00:09:49.414 Everyone's looking at us. 210 00:09:50.154 --> 00:09:51.721 If we fail, 211 00:09:51.765 --> 00:09:53.070 it would have been a tremendous setback. 212 00:09:55.116 --> 00:09:57.379 I was the first Ph.D. at ILM 213 00:09:57.422 --> 00:09:59.120 in the subject of computer graphics. 214 00:10:00.077 --> 00:10:01.731 We didn't have a lot office space, 215 00:10:01.775 --> 00:10:03.864 but I got put in this thing called "The Pit," 216 00:10:04.995 --> 00:10:06.867 which was downstairs and was a sound room. 217 00:10:06.910 --> 00:10:09.565 And we turned it into this kind of wild, wacky office. 218 00:10:10.740 --> 00:10:12.612 Spaz was put down there too. 219 00:10:13.874 --> 00:10:16.485 My first impression, he walks in, 220 00:10:16.528 --> 00:10:19.009 he's got, like, a tight, white t-shirt, 221 00:10:19.053 --> 00:10:20.924 crew cut, Dudley Do-Right chin, 222 00:10:20.968 --> 00:10:22.622 old school jeans rolled up at the bottom, 223 00:10:22.665 --> 00:10:23.797 and wearing engineer boots. 224 00:10:24.449 --> 00:10:27.452 It-- it's, like, a '50s biker thing 225 00:10:27.496 --> 00:10:29.498 or, you know, this kind of strange, 226 00:10:29.541 --> 00:10:31.326 macho Canadian thing or who knows what. 227 00:10:31.369 --> 00:10:33.110 There's this fucking hippie and I'm thinking, 228 00:10:33.154 --> 00:10:34.721 "Ah, God damned fucking hippie, 229 00:10:34.764 --> 00:10:37.462 God damned Californian," you know? 230 00:10:37.506 --> 00:10:38.812 And he's got his feet on the desk 231 00:10:38.855 --> 00:10:40.814 and playing on the stereo 232 00:10:40.857 --> 00:10:43.120 Alice Cooper, "Love it to Death." 233 00:10:43.164 --> 00:10:46.733 That's the first fucking album I ever had and he goes, 234 00:10:46.776 --> 00:10:48.299 "That's the first album I ever had." 235 00:10:48.343 --> 00:10:50.084 And that was it. Game over. 236 00:10:50.693 --> 00:10:52.477 We hit it off right away. 237 00:10:52.521 --> 00:10:54.131 I mean, it's funny, even though we're very different, 238 00:10:54.175 --> 00:10:55.480 we like to have fun. 239 00:10:56.264 --> 00:10:58.527 Have fun, be fun. That was our motto. 240 00:10:59.397 --> 00:11:01.138 We were outsiders, 241 00:11:01.182 --> 00:11:04.098 only because we had this technical animation solution, 242 00:11:04.141 --> 00:11:05.708 but we hadn't really worked on films. 243 00:11:06.622 --> 00:11:08.493 My job, you know, 244 00:11:08.537 --> 00:11:10.234 was to try and figure out the nuance of the animation. 245 00:11:11.453 --> 00:11:13.542 Mark had come up with this code 246 00:11:13.585 --> 00:11:15.762 that allowed us to put little sine wave distributions 247 00:11:15.805 --> 00:11:17.546 over the surface to create a rippling effect. 248 00:11:18.286 --> 00:11:20.288 How to take surfaces and make them undulate 249 00:11:20.331 --> 00:11:21.942 like they're water, even though they're tubes, 250 00:11:21.985 --> 00:11:23.683 that was a big pain in the ass. 251 00:11:24.205 --> 00:11:26.120 We had to just find solutions. 252 00:11:26.729 --> 00:11:29.123 Jim sent us back scans 253 00:11:29.166 --> 00:11:31.038 with the video we had 254 00:11:31.081 --> 00:11:33.649 just drawing on it with a marker, he faxed them. 255 00:11:33.693 --> 00:11:36.260 Ultimately, we were able to accomplish 256 00:11:36.304 --> 00:11:37.914 what Jim was looking for. 257 00:11:38.654 --> 00:11:40.961 Cameron had said, had that scene failed, 258 00:11:41.004 --> 00:11:42.919 he would've just yanked it from the entire film. 259 00:11:43.615 --> 00:11:45.400 But it ended being one of the premiere scenes. 260 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:47.054 Everybody looked at it and went, 261 00:11:47.097 --> 00:11:48.708 "How in blazes was that done?" 262 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:50.710 And that's where the deal changed. 263 00:11:53.364 --> 00:11:56.019 I knew darn well this would be the best 264 00:11:56.063 --> 00:11:57.542 that I would ever do. 265 00:11:57.586 --> 00:11:58.630 Ever. 266 00:11:59.893 --> 00:12:01.416 I just knew that there wasn't gonna be 267 00:12:01.459 --> 00:12:03.331 any more creative hurdles, 268 00:12:03.374 --> 00:12:05.725 there wouldn't be anything like what we were doing at ILM. 269 00:12:08.728 --> 00:12:10.904 When you grow up in Canada, it's like... 270 00:12:12.644 --> 00:12:15.299 you grow up with eight colors, okay? 271 00:12:16.431 --> 00:12:19.477 So, you have to learn how to design and draw, 272 00:12:19.521 --> 00:12:20.914 and paint with these eight colors. 273 00:12:20.957 --> 00:12:22.567 When you come to the States, 274 00:12:22.611 --> 00:12:24.308 you're instantly, across the border, 275 00:12:24.352 --> 00:12:25.788 given 20 colors. 276 00:12:32.012 --> 00:12:33.796 It blows your bloody mind. 277 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:36.799 You can have a '65 Cadillac without any rust on it. 278 00:12:36.843 --> 00:12:39.236 Engines, gas, 279 00:12:39.280 --> 00:12:42.718 bullets, beer, everything, just like that, snap. 280 00:12:42.762 --> 00:12:44.372 Everything's a half an hour away. 281 00:12:44.415 --> 00:12:46.374 It's great. It's like being in Disneyland. 282 00:12:47.592 --> 00:12:50.117 One, one gun, ah, ah, ah, ah. 283 00:12:52.772 --> 00:12:55.644 In America, anybody can do anything. 284 00:12:56.297 --> 00:12:58.734 All you have to do is put in the dedication 285 00:12:58.778 --> 00:13:00.301 and the sweat, 286 00:13:00.344 --> 00:13:01.563 and you can get whatever you fucking want. 287 00:13:02.956 --> 00:13:04.827 That concept didn't exist in Canada. 288 00:13:06.220 --> 00:13:07.699 Growing up in Toronto, 289 00:13:09.397 --> 00:13:11.007 you're growing up in suppression. 290 00:13:12.052 --> 00:13:13.967 You're growing up in bureaucracy. 291 00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:17.144 You are not qualified to do this. 292 00:13:18.493 --> 00:13:19.799 The prime minister at the time 293 00:13:19.842 --> 00:13:21.017 was a guy named Pierre Trudeau. 294 00:13:21.583 --> 00:13:23.063 And Pierre Trudeau said, 295 00:13:23.106 --> 00:13:24.151 "If you don't like it here in Canada, 296 00:13:24.194 --> 00:13:25.630 move somewhere else." 297 00:13:25.674 --> 00:13:27.589 So, I said, "Okay, fine. I'm gonna." 298 00:13:28.111 --> 00:13:29.199 And I did. 299 00:13:31.462 --> 00:13:33.334 So, this is the original mousepad 300 00:13:33.377 --> 00:13:36.424 that I used to build Terminator 2. 301 00:13:37.599 --> 00:13:41.081 I was there so much I ended up wearing out the pad. 302 00:13:42.560 --> 00:13:43.648 Pretty funny, eh? 303 00:13:46.173 --> 00:13:48.262 The pseudopod sequence was a validation 304 00:13:48.305 --> 00:13:50.699 that this was a technique that had a lot of promise. 305 00:13:51.874 --> 00:13:54.572 But it took Jim Cameron on his next film, 306 00:13:54.616 --> 00:13:57.227 Terminator 2, to kind of take it to the next step 307 00:13:57.271 --> 00:13:59.229 of what you could do with it. 308 00:14:04.278 --> 00:14:07.716 The Abyss encouraged me to take it a step further, 309 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:09.022 or many steps further. 310 00:14:09.065 --> 00:14:10.980 He knew to try and push it. 311 00:14:11.024 --> 00:14:13.113 And that was the good thing about Cameron, he pushed it. 312 00:14:13.156 --> 00:14:14.766 He believed in it, 313 00:14:14.810 --> 00:14:16.333 even though he didn't know the technology 314 00:14:16.377 --> 00:14:18.814 or the technique and he let myself and Spaz 315 00:14:18.858 --> 00:14:20.468 and everyone run with it. 316 00:14:23.688 --> 00:14:26.474 Everyone's neck was on the line, including his. 317 00:14:28.084 --> 00:14:30.043 The biggest technical challenge 318 00:14:30.086 --> 00:14:33.176 was building a human in data, it hadn't been done before. 319 00:14:33.220 --> 00:14:36.092 Robert Patrick is the T-1000. 320 00:14:36.136 --> 00:14:37.615 We're gonna study his body, 321 00:14:37.659 --> 00:14:39.269 we're gonna watch his movements, 322 00:14:39.313 --> 00:14:41.576 we're gonna find a way to capture his quality. 323 00:14:42.229 --> 00:14:44.057 There was no motion capture back then. 324 00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:46.146 So, Mark and I thought 325 00:14:46.189 --> 00:14:48.452 "Okay, well, let's do what Muybridge had done." 326 00:14:48.496 --> 00:14:51.586 Put a grid, but not on the background. 327 00:14:52.456 --> 00:14:53.588 Put a grid on the guy. 328 00:14:54.894 --> 00:14:56.417 The day I got cast, 329 00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:59.942 I'm flown to wherever the hell ILM is. 330 00:15:00.769 --> 00:15:04.773 Spaz and Mark start to paint these grids over me... 331 00:15:06.340 --> 00:15:08.908 and I had no idea what the fuck they were doing. 332 00:15:08.951 --> 00:15:11.388 Pardon my language, but, you know, they're animators, 333 00:15:11.432 --> 00:15:13.086 I don't know what they're doing, but they-- 334 00:15:13.129 --> 00:15:14.826 they seem real interested in what I'm doing. 335 00:15:14.870 --> 00:15:17.177 All right, oh, man, oh, man. 336 00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:19.614 -I'm one of the biggest-- -No, no, you're not. 337 00:15:19.657 --> 00:15:21.877 Yes, I am. I could have been a T-1000. 338 00:15:21.921 --> 00:15:24.184 You can only pray to have lines like that. 339 00:15:24.227 --> 00:15:26.012 I think that's the only time 340 00:15:26.055 --> 00:15:27.665 I ever seen you with a smile, Robert, huh? 341 00:15:27.709 --> 00:15:29.972 He's out of character. 342 00:15:30.016 --> 00:15:33.149 Mark and Steve were so inquisitive 343 00:15:33.193 --> 00:15:34.977 about what was I thinking, 344 00:15:35.021 --> 00:15:37.197 where was I getting these ideas? 345 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:38.894 If you're my target now, 346 00:15:38.938 --> 00:15:40.940 my left leg and my hip would drop back, 347 00:15:40.983 --> 00:15:43.246 my hip would lead me, and then the target's there. 348 00:15:43.290 --> 00:15:44.987 Gotcha. 349 00:15:45.031 --> 00:15:45.901 Immediately, it clicked with that. 350 00:15:46.597 --> 00:15:48.556 We had, like, our own theory, 351 00:15:48.599 --> 00:15:51.428 our own T-1000 talk, our own jargon. 352 00:15:52.473 --> 00:15:54.736 And they were kinda close to my age. 353 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:56.651 And I could tell they were young and eager, 354 00:15:56.694 --> 00:15:59.697 trying to make a name for themselves as well. 355 00:16:02.048 --> 00:16:04.746 We were all pretty passionate. 356 00:16:05.660 --> 00:16:07.183 And I remember thinking, 357 00:16:07.227 --> 00:16:09.098 "T-2 man, it's a whole 'nother level up." 358 00:16:10.447 --> 00:16:12.058 The walk out of the fire, 359 00:16:12.972 --> 00:16:16.279 the first unveiling of the special powers 360 00:16:16.323 --> 00:16:17.977 the T-1000 had. 361 00:16:20.588 --> 00:16:22.416 The first take I did, I went in there 362 00:16:22.459 --> 00:16:24.026 and I could smell my shirt burning. 363 00:16:24.070 --> 00:16:25.897 And I could feel it on the back of my ears. 364 00:16:25.941 --> 00:16:27.508 My ears were getting singed. 365 00:16:28.204 --> 00:16:29.553 The first shot I had to do 366 00:16:29.597 --> 00:16:31.381 was CC1 walking out of the fire. 367 00:16:31.425 --> 00:16:33.296 There was 375 frames long, 368 00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:35.472 fully skin walking T-1000. 369 00:16:36.125 --> 00:16:37.735 I remember shooting that, 370 00:16:37.779 --> 00:16:39.259 and I remember everybody being frustrated. 371 00:16:39.302 --> 00:16:41.261 I remember me being very frustrated, 372 00:16:41.304 --> 00:16:43.002 because I thought I was fucking it up 373 00:16:43.045 --> 00:16:44.960 for everybody. 374 00:16:45.004 --> 00:16:47.049 I think we did like 27 takes or something, I don't know. 375 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:49.530 I do remember that day, 376 00:16:49.573 --> 00:16:52.489 Jim and I sitting somewhere in that canal, 377 00:16:52.533 --> 00:16:53.925 off to the side in the shade. 378 00:16:54.709 --> 00:16:57.016 I think he could sense at how frustrated I was 379 00:16:58.321 --> 00:17:02.195 and he said, "Hey, man, this has never been done. 380 00:17:03.761 --> 00:17:05.198 We're making movie history. 381 00:17:06.982 --> 00:17:08.418 This is history right now." 382 00:17:10.464 --> 00:17:11.900 At ILM, 383 00:17:11.943 --> 00:17:13.119 we shot all this great reference material 384 00:17:13.162 --> 00:17:14.294 of Robert Patrick walking. 385 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.993 I'd come up with a method to actually build the T-1000. 386 00:17:18.472 --> 00:17:19.690 Okay, ready to roll camera? 387 00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:22.302 All right, roll "B" camera. 388 00:17:22.345 --> 00:17:23.433 Action! 389 00:17:24.565 --> 00:17:26.219 I started with a set of bones. 390 00:17:27.089 --> 00:17:31.050 Spaz, he actually animated my skeletal system. 391 00:17:34.096 --> 00:17:36.098 So it operates like any standard puppet, 392 00:17:36.142 --> 00:17:37.752 it's got 30 channels to it 393 00:17:37.795 --> 00:17:39.623 that go from anywhere from controlling 394 00:17:39.667 --> 00:17:41.451 the speed of his legs 395 00:17:41.495 --> 00:17:43.236 to the speed of what his fingers are doing. 396 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:44.933 This is really the first successful step 397 00:17:44.976 --> 00:17:46.804 to adding real life 398 00:17:46.848 --> 00:17:49.416 to an otherwise inanimate piece of geometry. 399 00:17:49.459 --> 00:17:51.418 We are destined to do that or nothing. 400 00:17:51.461 --> 00:17:53.811 We knew that other people had come so far, 401 00:17:53.855 --> 00:17:55.683 we wanted to go beyond that. 402 00:17:56.945 --> 00:17:58.425 Once that shot happened, that was it. 403 00:17:59.469 --> 00:18:00.557 Everybody knew. 404 00:18:02.429 --> 00:18:03.865 That was a new beginning. 405 00:18:05.649 --> 00:18:06.998 ILM was evolving. 406 00:18:08.391 --> 00:18:12.613 If you're lucky, you will find a place to go 407 00:18:12.656 --> 00:18:15.746 where they will continue to subsidize your insanity. 408 00:18:15.790 --> 00:18:18.488 Stories that wanted to be told ten years ago 409 00:18:18.532 --> 00:18:20.490 couldn't really be told 410 00:18:20.534 --> 00:18:22.449 because there was limitations in the effects industry. 411 00:18:22.492 --> 00:18:24.407 You know, so... 412 00:18:24.451 --> 00:18:26.583 Every time we did something that became better and digital, 413 00:18:26.627 --> 00:18:29.369 more experts moved in, that we'd never seen before. 414 00:18:30.370 --> 00:18:31.675 More managers moved in. 415 00:18:32.633 --> 00:18:34.591 More people to tell you what you were doing wrong, 416 00:18:34.635 --> 00:18:35.723 even though they didn't even understand 417 00:18:35.766 --> 00:18:36.854 what you were doing. 418 00:18:37.551 --> 00:18:39.857 Many folks, particularly in the beginning, 419 00:18:39.901 --> 00:18:42.599 didn't embrace it, nor did they feel, like, 420 00:18:42.643 --> 00:18:45.167 they had the capability to embrace it. 421 00:18:45.863 --> 00:18:47.691 You didn't want to lose your job 422 00:18:47.735 --> 00:18:49.302 to anything that was new. 423 00:18:50.085 --> 00:18:52.435 Right away, we knew, "This is coming." 424 00:18:53.044 --> 00:18:54.785 A lot of people were terrified by it, 425 00:18:54.829 --> 00:18:56.744 "It's gonna put model makers out of work." 426 00:18:56.787 --> 00:18:58.789 It was a live conversation happening all the time 427 00:18:58.833 --> 00:18:59.834 'cause it was a threat. 428 00:19:00.530 --> 00:19:02.184 That's how we saw it. 429 00:19:02.228 --> 00:19:04.839 So not only did they not want to embrace them, 430 00:19:04.882 --> 00:19:06.928 they actually wanted to see them fail, 431 00:19:06.971 --> 00:19:08.147 in my opinion. 432 00:19:09.583 --> 00:19:11.498 But, this was the future. 433 00:19:11.541 --> 00:19:13.282 And I just started buying gear. 434 00:19:13.326 --> 00:19:15.154 Throwing money into digital. 435 00:19:15.763 --> 00:19:17.591 Now, we started hiring. 436 00:19:17.634 --> 00:19:20.811 And we needed to hire people to do Terminator 2. 437 00:19:20.855 --> 00:19:22.465 On The Abyss, 438 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:24.250 there were probably seven or eight, um, 439 00:19:24.293 --> 00:19:25.947 computer graphics artists. 440 00:19:25.990 --> 00:19:27.514 And by the time we got to Terminator 441 00:19:27.557 --> 00:19:29.994 it had grown to around 15. 442 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:33.084 We were kind of new to this whole field. 443 00:19:33.128 --> 00:19:35.217 We were inventing it as we went along. 444 00:19:36.131 --> 00:19:38.481 I went into ILM my first day, 445 00:19:38.525 --> 00:19:41.441 and they crack open a binder full of storyboards, 446 00:19:41.484 --> 00:19:43.182 and I'm turning through the pages 447 00:19:43.225 --> 00:19:44.705 and looking at one thing and saying, 448 00:19:44.748 --> 00:19:46.881 "Oh, well, how are we gonna do that?" 449 00:19:47.360 --> 00:19:49.362 And they said, "Oh, we don't know yet." 450 00:19:50.101 --> 00:19:52.016 I turn a few more pages and look at something else 451 00:19:52.060 --> 00:19:53.583 and, "Oh, how do we do that?" 452 00:19:54.323 --> 00:19:55.803 "We don't know." 453 00:19:55.846 --> 00:19:57.848 And I thought, "You people are crazy." 454 00:19:58.849 --> 00:20:01.069 What I knew was geometry and animation, 455 00:20:01.112 --> 00:20:02.679 and a little bit about lighting. 456 00:20:02.723 --> 00:20:04.290 I didn't know anything about compositing, 457 00:20:04.333 --> 00:20:05.726 I certainly didn't know anything 458 00:20:05.769 --> 00:20:07.336 about traditional special effects. 459 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:08.685 I wasn't even a big movie buff, really. 460 00:20:09.469 --> 00:20:12.689 I had no training in film whatsoever. 461 00:20:13.299 --> 00:20:14.822 Not a single day of film school. 462 00:20:15.518 --> 00:20:18.478 Every filmmaker who wanted to do something new, 463 00:20:18.521 --> 00:20:19.696 came to ILM. 464 00:20:19.740 --> 00:20:22.264 But, doing traditional effects, 465 00:20:22.308 --> 00:20:24.353 blowing things up in camera, 466 00:20:24.397 --> 00:20:26.225 and then optically printing them 467 00:20:26.268 --> 00:20:28.488 was very much still the norm back then. 468 00:20:29.053 --> 00:20:30.707 As the manager of the company, 469 00:20:30.751 --> 00:20:32.927 what I really needed to do is foster change, 470 00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:35.669 so I needed to take some of the computer graphics people 471 00:20:35.712 --> 00:20:38.585 and put them in with the old school masters. 472 00:20:39.194 --> 00:20:41.501 And I carved out, like, a week of time 473 00:20:41.544 --> 00:20:43.894 of these people to be together in a seminar 474 00:20:43.938 --> 00:20:45.505 so that they could teach each other. 475 00:20:49.683 --> 00:20:53.208 It was like oil and water. 476 00:20:53.252 --> 00:20:55.732 And this is, uh, C-3PO, huh, you know. 477 00:20:56.255 --> 00:20:58.169 The computer graphics people 478 00:20:58.213 --> 00:21:00.955 that were being hired had very little time, 479 00:21:00.998 --> 00:21:03.827 nor interest, in old school technology. 480 00:21:03.871 --> 00:21:06.047 And let's see how his vital signs are. 481 00:21:06.090 --> 00:21:08.005 Well, after all these years he still holds up. 482 00:21:08.049 --> 00:21:09.398 It was like, you know, 483 00:21:09.442 --> 00:21:11.313 your high school students saying, 484 00:21:11.357 --> 00:21:12.880 "Why do I have to study math? I don't need to study. 485 00:21:12.923 --> 00:21:14.534 I have this thing, it's a calculator." 486 00:21:15.622 --> 00:21:18.755 We all loved ILM and we loved George Lucas 487 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:20.279 and we loved all that stuff 488 00:21:20.322 --> 00:21:21.671 'cause it had an impact on our lives. 489 00:21:21.715 --> 00:21:24.892 But, we weren't, like, mad fanboys. 490 00:21:24.935 --> 00:21:27.547 We believed in kind of the irony of it all, you know? 491 00:21:27.590 --> 00:21:29.810 So, it wasn't, like, to be taken so seriously, 492 00:21:29.853 --> 00:21:32.247 it wasn't, like, uh, uh, 493 00:21:32.291 --> 00:21:34.293 we wanted to deify or worship all these things. 494 00:21:34.336 --> 00:21:36.164 So, we were-- First of all, we were casual about it. 495 00:21:37.339 --> 00:21:39.298 Hello, how are you? 496 00:21:39.341 --> 00:21:41.387 My name's Dobbie, Dobbie Dickwit. 497 00:21:41.430 --> 00:21:43.345 Steve Williams was a combination 498 00:21:43.389 --> 00:21:47.915 of brilliance, naivete, some childishness, 499 00:21:47.958 --> 00:21:50.744 all wrapped into one package. 500 00:21:50.787 --> 00:21:52.485 And I think, uh, 501 00:21:52.528 --> 00:21:55.966 some of that rubbed management the wrong way. 502 00:21:56.010 --> 00:21:57.751 He drove me crazy. 503 00:21:57.794 --> 00:21:59.492 He drove everybody crazy in that marketing department 504 00:21:59.535 --> 00:22:01.407 'cause he did not do what we wanted him to do. 505 00:22:01.972 --> 00:22:04.279 And he almost had, like, a secret glee, 506 00:22:04.323 --> 00:22:06.063 by not doing what we wanted him to do. 507 00:22:07.543 --> 00:22:09.763 If you're gonna have a successful company 508 00:22:09.806 --> 00:22:11.504 with creative people in it, 509 00:22:11.547 --> 00:22:15.769 you gotta give some leeway to these unusual types. 510 00:22:15.812 --> 00:22:19.642 They are young, full of energy, 511 00:22:19.686 --> 00:22:22.950 and some of them are oddballs. 512 00:22:22.993 --> 00:22:25.082 Well, hi there, I am Hickory, I own this farm. 513 00:22:25.126 --> 00:22:26.693 -Nice to meet you. -Ow! 514 00:22:26.736 --> 00:22:29.260 Let go you fucking asshole. 515 00:22:30.827 --> 00:22:32.612 There was a lot of serious work there, 516 00:22:32.655 --> 00:22:34.701 but there was also a lot of nonsense. 517 00:22:34.744 --> 00:22:36.920 And you have to have a lot of nonsense 518 00:22:36.964 --> 00:22:40.097 to actually get creative stuff done. 519 00:22:40.141 --> 00:22:43.100 It's part of the equation. 520 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:45.973 We would have these parties 521 00:22:46.016 --> 00:22:47.714 called "pit parties." 522 00:22:47.757 --> 00:22:49.498 We hung up fliers all around the company, 523 00:22:49.542 --> 00:22:52.414 it said, "Nailed, an evening of social penetration." 524 00:23:00.727 --> 00:23:02.946 We had two big bowls, 525 00:23:02.990 --> 00:23:04.818 "Mystic Masonic Punch," 526 00:23:04.861 --> 00:23:06.863 and "Our Lady of the Berry Wine." 527 00:23:07.908 --> 00:23:10.301 There are people running around drunk out of their heads. 528 00:23:11.607 --> 00:23:13.479 There's really no guidelines 529 00:23:13.522 --> 00:23:15.263 or no established standards 530 00:23:15.306 --> 00:23:17.091 of how we were supposed to behave 531 00:23:17.134 --> 00:23:19.354 or what we're supposed to do or not do. 532 00:23:19.398 --> 00:23:21.530 So, there were certain drugs were consumed, 533 00:23:21.574 --> 00:23:23.402 and, well, I took some mushrooms 534 00:23:23.445 --> 00:23:25.447 and watched some black and white movie in reverse. 535 00:23:26.274 --> 00:23:27.884 The fact that they were down there 536 00:23:27.928 --> 00:23:29.582 in the pit, they could let off a lot of steam. 537 00:23:30.234 --> 00:23:32.933 Steve would have a hockey stick and he'd be bashing something. 538 00:23:33.803 --> 00:23:35.370 I end up falling off the desk 539 00:23:35.414 --> 00:23:36.850 and falling into a pile of glass. 540 00:23:37.677 --> 00:23:39.069 I didn't have any feeling for a while. 541 00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:41.724 I was suspended twice, 542 00:23:41.768 --> 00:23:43.465 because we fucking destroyed the place. 543 00:23:45.815 --> 00:23:47.513 You needed to allow people 544 00:23:47.556 --> 00:23:50.951 to make mistakes and experiment. 545 00:23:51.821 --> 00:23:54.563 You also needed to allow them to understand 546 00:23:54.607 --> 00:23:55.956 that it was a business. 547 00:23:57.044 --> 00:23:58.872 There was a lot of politics at the time 548 00:23:58.915 --> 00:24:00.874 because it was a high-profile film. 549 00:24:00.917 --> 00:24:02.484 In The Abyss, 550 00:24:02.528 --> 00:24:04.225 you know, there was a small sequence. 551 00:24:04.268 --> 00:24:05.835 James Cameron had basically said, 552 00:24:05.879 --> 00:24:08.403 "If this does not get done on schedule, 553 00:24:08.447 --> 00:24:10.318 I can just cut it out." 554 00:24:10.361 --> 00:24:12.973 Now, for Terminator 2, it was pretty clear 555 00:24:13.016 --> 00:24:16.063 that if computer graphics didn't work out, 556 00:24:16.106 --> 00:24:17.194 that would be a problem. 557 00:24:18.021 --> 00:24:19.806 So, the pressure was on. 558 00:24:19.849 --> 00:24:22.373 Somehow, everybody around us just had to trust us. 559 00:24:23.113 --> 00:24:24.506 If the studio was about to spend 560 00:24:24.550 --> 00:24:26.508 five or six million dollars, 561 00:24:26.552 --> 00:24:29.076 they want somebody that's got some cred, right? 562 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:30.686 Not us young punks. 563 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:32.862 For a group of computer graphics people 564 00:24:32.906 --> 00:24:34.647 who are trying to prove themselves, 565 00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:37.258 you had to have a face for that, and that was Dennis. 566 00:24:38.607 --> 00:24:41.567 Dennis Muren looms big over everything. 567 00:24:42.176 --> 00:24:43.612 He is Optimus Prime. 568 00:24:44.395 --> 00:24:45.832 Dennis had all the experience 569 00:24:45.875 --> 00:24:47.834 and such great credentials. 570 00:24:47.877 --> 00:24:49.531 He was the leader of the pack. 571 00:24:49.575 --> 00:24:51.533 He was the guy with the most gold statues, 572 00:24:51.577 --> 00:24:53.317 he was the guy that was still standing in there the longest. 573 00:24:53.361 --> 00:24:55.276 He was the guy. 574 00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:57.452 Computer generated images are a way of coming up 575 00:24:57.496 --> 00:24:58.888 with new effects. 576 00:24:58.932 --> 00:25:00.673 You're starting to see, I think, 577 00:25:00.716 --> 00:25:03.197 a lot of the limits of traditional effects. 578 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:04.546 So, I've all the time, 579 00:25:04.590 --> 00:25:05.895 been sort of pushing for this stuff to work. 580 00:25:06.635 --> 00:25:08.507 Dennis not only supported 581 00:25:08.550 --> 00:25:11.553 digital technology, but embraced it and pressed it. 582 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:14.556 He always, I think, is looking big picture 583 00:25:14.600 --> 00:25:16.645 and understands how all the elements fit. 584 00:25:17.341 --> 00:25:19.430 He could look at an image, "It's not working." 585 00:25:19.474 --> 00:25:20.780 He's the kind of guy that could say 586 00:25:20.823 --> 00:25:22.303 what'll make it work. 587 00:25:22.346 --> 00:25:23.783 And that's a big, big talent. 588 00:25:24.958 --> 00:25:26.437 He's one of the best. 589 00:25:26.481 --> 00:25:28.091 That's why he's so well respected 590 00:25:28.135 --> 00:25:29.223 and won so many awards. 591 00:25:30.616 --> 00:25:33.314 He had the vision to see where it could go, 592 00:25:33.357 --> 00:25:37.057 but the specifics of making it go there, 593 00:25:37.100 --> 00:25:38.928 as far as the actual doing, 594 00:25:38.972 --> 00:25:40.713 fell, somewhat, to other people. 595 00:25:41.583 --> 00:25:43.454 You know, hierarchies being what they are, 596 00:25:43.498 --> 00:25:47.328 at some point you find yourself now reporting to someone 597 00:25:47.371 --> 00:25:48.808 who knows less than you do 598 00:25:48.851 --> 00:25:51.027 about what it is that you're doing. 599 00:25:51.854 --> 00:25:54.596 Dennis comes from a camera background. 600 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:56.467 He knows that area really well, 601 00:25:56.511 --> 00:25:59.514 but he was relying, certainly, on us computer geeks 602 00:25:59.558 --> 00:26:01.516 to try and bolt everything together 603 00:26:01.560 --> 00:26:02.735 and get the shots through. 604 00:26:03.649 --> 00:26:06.739 There's no one person who can know or do everything 605 00:26:06.782 --> 00:26:10.569 and, so, you have to rely on people who have expertise. 606 00:26:10.612 --> 00:26:14.007 If you're smart, you get into that organization, 607 00:26:14.050 --> 00:26:17.097 you play by the rules, you make connections, 608 00:26:17.140 --> 00:26:19.882 but you have to have a bit of humility. 609 00:26:20.883 --> 00:26:23.930 The Spaz-Dippé personality style 610 00:26:23.973 --> 00:26:25.279 I don't think fit. 611 00:26:26.367 --> 00:26:28.325 They had more of a punk sensibility. 612 00:26:28.978 --> 00:26:30.371 The way they liked to dress 613 00:26:30.414 --> 00:26:32.242 and the way they liked to do things 614 00:26:32.286 --> 00:26:35.028 was not the norm at ILM. 615 00:26:35.071 --> 00:26:37.421 There were several times when they almost got fired 616 00:26:37.465 --> 00:26:39.859 During the making of Terminator 2 617 00:26:39.902 --> 00:26:41.991 there was a dinner. 618 00:26:42.513 --> 00:26:44.080 And it's at Skywalker Ranch. 619 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:45.952 The ranch was sort of verboten. 620 00:26:46.517 --> 00:26:49.346 We were sort of, like, the bastard step-children 621 00:26:49.390 --> 00:26:51.610 that lived on Kerner and ate at Foodles. 622 00:26:52.654 --> 00:26:55.178 Mark and I are invited to the ranch. 623 00:26:56.092 --> 00:26:58.617 We ride our motorcycles up Skywalker Ranch. 624 00:26:59.226 --> 00:27:01.402 We park them on the front, like, 25 motorcycles. 625 00:27:02.011 --> 00:27:04.579 This office building is a house. 626 00:27:04.623 --> 00:27:06.886 We went into the executive dining room. 627 00:27:06.929 --> 00:27:09.149 The food's being served. These two guys get bored 628 00:27:09.192 --> 00:27:11.107 and they decide to get up and take a walk. 629 00:27:11.151 --> 00:27:12.848 We're just walkin' around the house. 630 00:27:12.892 --> 00:27:15.329 And then at the very end, there's a little, like, 631 00:27:15.372 --> 00:27:17.113 sunken den. 632 00:27:17.157 --> 00:27:19.942 They found their way to George's private sanctum, 633 00:27:19.986 --> 00:27:22.510 the anteroom to his actual office. 634 00:27:22.553 --> 00:27:24.555 And they walk into the office and they sit down-- 635 00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:27.950 Smoking cigars, into George's liquor cabinet, 636 00:27:27.994 --> 00:27:29.822 feet up on the desk. 637 00:27:29.865 --> 00:27:33.173 Now, unbeknownst to us, everything is alarmed. 638 00:27:33.216 --> 00:27:35.001 They have pressure sensitive carpets up there. 639 00:27:35.044 --> 00:27:36.698 And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, 640 00:27:36.742 --> 00:27:39.222 the Skywalker police show up. 641 00:27:39.266 --> 00:27:41.747 Skywalker had their own police and fire department. 642 00:27:41.790 --> 00:27:43.574 "What's going on here? Who are you?" 643 00:27:43.618 --> 00:27:45.576 "What are you doing? You're in George Lucas' office." 644 00:27:45.620 --> 00:27:47.448 They had done the unthinkable! 645 00:27:47.491 --> 00:27:51.408 They had actually gone in and defouled the chambers! 646 00:27:51.452 --> 00:27:53.541 Spaz says, "Well, my name is Scott Ross." 647 00:27:54.194 --> 00:27:56.718 Dippé gave his name as Lincoln Hu, 648 00:27:56.762 --> 00:27:58.807 which caused a certain amount of chagrin 649 00:27:58.851 --> 00:28:00.591 for the real Lincoln Hu. 650 00:28:00.635 --> 00:28:02.376 Lincoln Hu's one of the only other Asian guys 651 00:28:02.419 --> 00:28:03.769 I can think of, even though I'm only half Asian. 652 00:28:03.812 --> 00:28:05.553 And the security guy said, 653 00:28:05.596 --> 00:28:07.555 "We know who Scott Ross is. What's your name?" 654 00:28:07.598 --> 00:28:10.950 And Spaz says, "You got me, my name's Ed Jones." 655 00:28:11.515 --> 00:28:13.517 So, the next morning the call comes in. 656 00:28:13.561 --> 00:28:15.258 "What the hell did you guys do?" 657 00:28:15.302 --> 00:28:16.869 "We didn't do anything, we were screwing around!" 658 00:28:16.912 --> 00:28:18.174 "Well, they think you did something 659 00:28:18.218 --> 00:28:19.785 and you're in deep shit." 660 00:28:19.828 --> 00:28:21.612 I go, "Like what?" "They want you fired." 661 00:28:21.656 --> 00:28:22.701 "What?" 662 00:28:23.223 --> 00:28:24.920 Doug Norby. 663 00:28:24.964 --> 00:28:26.879 Doug Norby was the head of Lucas Film at the time. 664 00:28:26.922 --> 00:28:28.358 My arch nemesis. 665 00:28:28.402 --> 00:28:30.143 He calls me on the phone and he says, 666 00:28:30.186 --> 00:28:33.146 "George is beside himself and I want you to fire 667 00:28:33.189 --> 00:28:35.148 Lincoln Hu and Ed Jones." 668 00:28:35.191 --> 00:28:36.932 I said, "Well, first of all, it wasn't Lincoln Hu 669 00:28:36.976 --> 00:28:38.629 and it wasn't Ed Jones, 670 00:28:38.673 --> 00:28:41.023 it was Steve Williams and it was Mark Dippé." 671 00:28:41.067 --> 00:28:43.112 He says, "George wants them fired." 672 00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:45.419 I said, "I can't fire them." 673 00:28:46.115 --> 00:28:47.551 "Listen, this is what George wants, 674 00:28:47.595 --> 00:28:49.553 -he wants them fired." -Okay. 675 00:28:49.597 --> 00:28:50.903 Let me just put you in the picture. 676 00:28:51.381 --> 00:28:53.470 If I fire these two guys, 677 00:28:53.514 --> 00:28:55.168 Jim Cameron 678 00:28:55.211 --> 00:28:58.693 and the entire Columbia Legal Department 679 00:28:58.737 --> 00:29:01.043 is gonna be in your office tomorrow 680 00:29:01.087 --> 00:29:04.568 because these two guys are what makes Terminator 2. 681 00:29:05.613 --> 00:29:08.834 And if I fire the two of them, the film doesn't get done 682 00:29:08.877 --> 00:29:10.313 and you're gonna be sued. 683 00:29:11.532 --> 00:29:13.099 "Okay, let me get back to you." 684 00:29:13.142 --> 00:29:15.231 -"Thanks, Doug." Click. -Damn it! You know? 685 00:29:15.754 --> 00:29:18.321 So, what they had to do is they had to figure out 686 00:29:18.365 --> 00:29:19.845 how to penalize us. 687 00:29:19.888 --> 00:29:20.802 So, what happened was we had to sit 688 00:29:20.846 --> 00:29:21.934 on a tribunal. 689 00:29:21.977 --> 00:29:23.500 Me and Mark on one side 690 00:29:23.544 --> 00:29:25.764 and all the head brass of Lucas Film. 691 00:29:26.373 --> 00:29:28.505 They're asking us the weirdest fucking questions 692 00:29:28.549 --> 00:29:30.116 in the world, they're going, 693 00:29:30.159 --> 00:29:31.900 "If you're having a party at your house, 694 00:29:31.944 --> 00:29:34.598 and you see that people have gone into your bedroom 695 00:29:34.642 --> 00:29:36.296 during the party, would you be offended?" 696 00:29:36.339 --> 00:29:38.167 I said, "No! Are you kidding me?" 697 00:29:38.211 --> 00:29:39.516 They're-- I said, "At my parties, 698 00:29:39.560 --> 00:29:40.822 everyone's in the bedroom!" 699 00:29:41.344 --> 00:29:44.695 This-- We-- we-- we-- This is ridiculous. 700 00:29:44.739 --> 00:29:46.959 Mark and I go, "Look, we'll quit right now." 701 00:29:47.002 --> 00:29:49.570 We said we'll quit. "Oh, no, no, no." 702 00:29:49.613 --> 00:29:51.180 "They can stay, 703 00:29:51.224 --> 00:29:53.704 but they are banned from the ranch. 704 00:29:53.748 --> 00:29:56.577 They are no longer allowed on the ranch." 705 00:29:56.620 --> 00:29:59.841 From that moment on, they were persona non grata 706 00:29:59.885 --> 00:30:01.625 at the ranch. 707 00:30:01.669 --> 00:30:03.976 Lincoln Hu winds up getting a phone call 708 00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:05.847 and it's Doug Norby. 709 00:30:05.891 --> 00:30:08.676 "I know it wasn't you, I know it was the other guys 710 00:30:08.719 --> 00:30:10.765 and I'm really sorry that I used your name, 711 00:30:10.809 --> 00:30:14.290 but I really wanna thank you for the plate of cookies 712 00:30:14.334 --> 00:30:15.683 that you sent me." 713 00:30:15.726 --> 00:30:17.859 And Lincoln says, "Doug, 714 00:30:17.903 --> 00:30:21.167 I wouldn't eat any of those cookies if I was you." 715 00:30:25.171 --> 00:30:27.129 I'm Roger Ebert of theChicago Sun Times. 716 00:30:27.173 --> 00:30:28.914 And I'm Gene Siskel of theChicago Tribune 717 00:30:28.957 --> 00:30:30.829 and our first film isTerminator 2. 718 00:30:32.178 --> 00:30:34.136 Thanks to some truly spectacular 719 00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:35.790 and mystifying special effects, 720 00:30:35.834 --> 00:30:37.357 this is one terrific action picture. 721 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:38.837 I enjoyed it a lot more than the original. 722 00:30:39.663 --> 00:30:41.013 It hit the press big. 723 00:30:41.578 --> 00:30:43.015 Tons of publicity and stuff. 724 00:30:43.972 --> 00:30:45.104 Accolades. 725 00:30:46.061 --> 00:30:47.889 No one had ever seen anything like it before. 726 00:30:48.977 --> 00:30:51.284 Mark Dippé and I, we were like these superstars. 727 00:30:52.241 --> 00:30:54.200 The press was crazy. 728 00:30:54.243 --> 00:30:56.985 Dennis and I did a Timemagazine article together 729 00:30:57.029 --> 00:30:58.639 and the way it was shown was like, 730 00:30:58.682 --> 00:31:01.033 uh, the sorcerer and his young apprentice. 731 00:31:01.860 --> 00:31:04.340 I think Dennis was a supporter of the idea, but... 732 00:31:05.385 --> 00:31:08.562 you know, he's like-- A-- He was worried. 733 00:31:08.605 --> 00:31:10.042 I didn't go into this show 734 00:31:10.085 --> 00:31:11.870 relying on CG to be able to do it. 735 00:31:11.913 --> 00:31:13.610 I had a backup plan. 736 00:31:13.654 --> 00:31:16.352 I was ready at any time to start pulling out the-- 737 00:31:16.396 --> 00:31:19.965 To get the model shop going and getting the foam beam, 738 00:31:20.008 --> 00:31:21.444 you know, whipped up, and castings 739 00:31:21.488 --> 00:31:23.142 and everything like that if we had to 740 00:31:23.185 --> 00:31:25.144 and try, you know, other techniques to do it. 741 00:31:26.101 --> 00:31:28.364 Those guys were working with limitations. 742 00:31:29.148 --> 00:31:30.714 Technical limitations. 743 00:31:31.454 --> 00:31:33.369 When computer graphics came along, 744 00:31:34.066 --> 00:31:35.545 we're really trying to do better 745 00:31:35.589 --> 00:31:36.895 what the guy did before. 746 00:31:38.984 --> 00:31:41.421 Steve really pushed on everyone. 747 00:31:42.117 --> 00:31:43.466 He knew what we could do 748 00:31:43.510 --> 00:31:44.728 and that we could push it further. 749 00:31:45.338 --> 00:31:47.209 Maybe that's where some of the friction came from. 750 00:31:47.818 --> 00:31:49.385 It will be no secret 751 00:31:49.429 --> 00:31:52.867 that Dennis and Spaz's relationship... 752 00:31:56.305 --> 00:32:00.353 was not always the friendliest thing. 753 00:32:00.396 --> 00:32:01.963 Oddly enough, the biggest obstacles 754 00:32:02.007 --> 00:32:04.226 I ran into were the experts at ILM. 755 00:32:04.270 --> 00:32:07.360 They were the obstacles. It wasn't the technology. 756 00:32:07.403 --> 00:32:08.752 They were the obstacles. 757 00:32:09.797 --> 00:32:11.494 He was like having the crazy grandfather 758 00:32:11.538 --> 00:32:13.105 in the room that was in World War II 759 00:32:13.148 --> 00:32:15.324 and is mumbling stories about World War II, 760 00:32:15.368 --> 00:32:17.109 but you're supposed to listen to him 761 00:32:17.152 --> 00:32:18.675 because if you don't, you know, 762 00:32:18.719 --> 00:32:21.504 it's considered politically incorrect. 763 00:32:21.548 --> 00:32:23.550 The big shift in your time, I guess, 764 00:32:23.593 --> 00:32:24.986 was from optical to digital 765 00:32:25.030 --> 00:32:26.640 and, so, you went through, what, 766 00:32:26.683 --> 00:32:28.947 a kind of crisis or a period of learning? 767 00:32:28.990 --> 00:32:30.861 The credit was given to the person 768 00:32:30.905 --> 00:32:32.994 that actually didn't even understand how it was done. 769 00:32:33.038 --> 00:32:34.822 The Abyss just looked amazing 770 00:32:34.865 --> 00:32:36.998 and I thought, "This is gonna work." 771 00:32:37.042 --> 00:32:39.000 And I don't understand it. 772 00:32:39.044 --> 00:32:41.437 This was such a new technology, he wouldn't have had any clue. 773 00:32:47.356 --> 00:32:51.056 I got that big van Dam folly book on CG, 774 00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:54.494 I read that just from front to back over a period of weeks. 775 00:32:59.064 --> 00:33:00.282 After The Abyss, 776 00:33:00.935 --> 00:33:02.719 he got an Oscar for it. 777 00:33:02.763 --> 00:33:04.547 And I'm here for Industrial Light and Magic 778 00:33:04.591 --> 00:33:06.201 and thanks everybody who worked on the show 779 00:33:06.245 --> 00:33:08.160 from up there, John Knoll and, uh, 780 00:33:08.203 --> 00:33:10.249 everyone in the computer graphics department. 781 00:33:10.292 --> 00:33:12.294 And thanks so much, especially to Jim Cameron, 782 00:33:12.338 --> 00:33:13.817 my wife, Zara, and Gregory. 783 00:33:13.861 --> 00:33:15.080 Thank you! 784 00:33:23.566 --> 00:33:26.700 No, I missed that, uh, where-- What's this? 785 00:33:26.743 --> 00:33:28.745 For The Abyss? What-- It looks a little soft. 786 00:33:29.659 --> 00:33:32.793 I think in any environment like that, 787 00:33:32.836 --> 00:33:36.536 you're gonna have some, uh, jealousy. 788 00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.583 Everybody is jockeying for a position. 789 00:33:41.541 --> 00:33:43.195 But I don't think, uh, Steve Williams 790 00:33:43.238 --> 00:33:44.805 was jockeying for anything. 791 00:33:45.458 --> 00:33:47.547 He was not a ladder climber. 792 00:33:48.635 --> 00:33:51.029 He just wanted to have fun and do his art. 793 00:33:52.030 --> 00:33:55.033 He was the one actually hands-on creating. 794 00:33:56.338 --> 00:33:59.037 He would work late nights in the pit. 795 00:33:59.515 --> 00:34:00.995 That's when he would focus the most 796 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:02.910 and follow his own instincts. 797 00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:06.957 Politically, you don't see this stuff coming 798 00:34:07.001 --> 00:34:08.698 because you're so engrossed in what you're doing. 799 00:34:10.526 --> 00:34:12.180 There's always been bureaucracy 800 00:34:12.224 --> 00:34:14.095 and red tape and politics 801 00:34:14.139 --> 00:34:17.098 and there were politics at ILM back in the day, too. 802 00:34:17.664 --> 00:34:19.796 You know, there was a big man on campus, 803 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:20.884 bigger than Steve. 804 00:34:21.711 --> 00:34:24.932 Won numerous Oscars. 805 00:34:24.975 --> 00:34:27.239 I'd like to thank my mom and John Berg and Phil Tippett 806 00:34:27.282 --> 00:34:29.067 and Ken and all the camera department. 807 00:34:29.110 --> 00:34:31.112 And thank you very much to Mike McAllister, uh, 808 00:34:31.156 --> 00:34:33.332 Mike Pangrazio, and the math department. 809 00:34:33.375 --> 00:34:35.160 I'd very much like to thank Bruce Nicholson, 810 00:34:35.203 --> 00:34:37.466 Mike McAllister, Mike Owens. 811 00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:39.164 Well, thank you to the Academy, 812 00:34:39.207 --> 00:34:41.122 and Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, 813 00:34:41.166 --> 00:34:43.124 Kathy Kennedy, Frank Marshall, and Robert Watts. 814 00:34:43.168 --> 00:34:44.865 This is a big thrill. 815 00:34:44.908 --> 00:34:46.649 We'd really like to thank the Academy, 816 00:34:46.693 --> 00:34:48.477 Joe Dante for doing his great direction, 817 00:34:48.521 --> 00:34:50.000 Mike Finnell, of course, Steven Spielberg- 818 00:34:50.044 --> 00:34:51.959 His name was gonna be at the top, 819 00:34:52.002 --> 00:34:53.439 regardless of all the people who were working underneath 820 00:34:53.482 --> 00:34:54.614 and there were dozens and dozens, 821 00:34:54.657 --> 00:34:56.311 Steve was just one of 'em. 822 00:34:56.355 --> 00:34:58.661 Secondly, there's the concept of, you know, 823 00:34:58.705 --> 00:35:00.663 there's your story, there's my story, 824 00:35:00.707 --> 00:35:02.100 and there's the story. 825 00:35:02.665 --> 00:35:03.753 I think, you know... 826 00:35:05.146 --> 00:35:08.062 history is written for the victors. 827 00:35:10.412 --> 00:35:12.632 The Oscar goes to Dennis Muren, 828 00:35:12.675 --> 00:35:14.851 Stan Winston, Gene Warren, Jr., 829 00:35:14.895 --> 00:35:16.375 and Robert Skotak. 830 00:35:16.418 --> 00:35:18.246 Terminator 2: Judgement Day. 831 00:35:22.163 --> 00:35:24.470 Thanks to, uh, everyone at Industrial Light and Magic, 832 00:35:24.513 --> 00:35:27.037 and especially my incredible computer graphic team. 833 00:35:27.081 --> 00:35:30.737 To Janet Healy, Mark Dippé, my wife, Zara, Gregory, 834 00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:33.914 and Gwendolyn, and especially Jim Cameron. 835 00:35:44.054 --> 00:35:45.143 He didn't mention me. 836 00:35:47.014 --> 00:35:49.234 I remember I was so mad, I put my fist through a wall. 837 00:36:08.775 --> 00:36:10.298 I never thought about, politically, 838 00:36:10.342 --> 00:36:11.734 how to play this fuckin' chess game. 839 00:36:14.259 --> 00:36:16.348 We were thinking about creating the art, right? 840 00:36:16.391 --> 00:36:17.566 Creating these ideas. 841 00:36:19.046 --> 00:36:20.526 We weren't thinking about, 842 00:36:20.569 --> 00:36:21.701 "What does this mean for my future?" 843 00:36:21.744 --> 00:36:25.792 ♪ 844 00:36:33.626 --> 00:36:35.105 There's always gonna be a bigger fish 845 00:36:35.149 --> 00:36:36.194 who's gonna get the credit. 846 00:36:38.457 --> 00:36:39.936 That's how the game is played. 847 00:36:41.851 --> 00:36:42.939 That's life. 848 00:36:44.767 --> 00:36:46.726 If you wanna stay in the industry, 849 00:36:46.769 --> 00:36:47.857 you gotta play the game. 850 00:36:51.034 --> 00:36:52.297 Steve didn't play that game. 851 00:36:53.733 --> 00:36:55.996 He didn't know how to. He didn't want to. 852 00:36:59.695 --> 00:37:00.914 That's why he stood out. 853 00:37:03.569 --> 00:37:05.658 You learn a lot in an environment like that. 854 00:37:05.701 --> 00:37:07.964 Not just about how to do, 855 00:37:08.008 --> 00:37:11.707 what is, ostensibly, your job, but how it fits with the rest. 856 00:37:14.449 --> 00:37:17.322 Not everybody really fits that environment 857 00:37:17.844 --> 00:37:20.586 and you function within this hierarchy. 858 00:37:21.978 --> 00:37:24.590 This is the sort of through to the bone moment 859 00:37:24.633 --> 00:37:27.549 where you realize, "Yes, the game is changing." 860 00:37:34.295 --> 00:37:37.690 In June of '91, this meeting happened 861 00:37:37.733 --> 00:37:40.345 at a place called Yu Shang across from ILM. 862 00:37:40.997 --> 00:37:42.695 So, Mark Dippé and I are sitting there 863 00:37:42.738 --> 00:37:45.219 and Dennis Muren's there, John Schlag's there, 864 00:37:45.263 --> 00:37:48.570 Mike Natkin is there, Stefen Fangmeier's there. 865 00:37:49.267 --> 00:37:52.008 Muren said Steven Spielberg is coming up with this new film 866 00:37:52.052 --> 00:37:53.532 based on Michael Crighton's book 867 00:37:53.575 --> 00:37:54.881 called Jurassic Park. 868 00:37:55.621 --> 00:37:58.754 It's about a bunch of dinosaurs in a park and it goes awry. 869 00:37:58.798 --> 00:38:00.930 When Jurassicstarted, 870 00:38:00.974 --> 00:38:03.455 there were three different approaches 871 00:38:03.498 --> 00:38:05.979 in companies that were going to handle it. 872 00:38:06.022 --> 00:38:09.678 Stan Winston's group would do the physical creatures, 873 00:38:09.722 --> 00:38:10.897 the close ups. 874 00:38:11.506 --> 00:38:14.335 Phil Tippet's group would do the medium shots 875 00:38:14.379 --> 00:38:16.642 via stop-motion where you could see 876 00:38:16.685 --> 00:38:18.470 all the action of a dinosaur. 877 00:38:19.514 --> 00:38:23.213 And then ILM would do the far away heard shots. 878 00:38:23.910 --> 00:38:25.259 The long shots. 879 00:38:25.303 --> 00:38:26.826 Oh, they're way over there 880 00:38:26.869 --> 00:38:28.567 and they're only this big in the frame 881 00:38:28.610 --> 00:38:30.699 and we can get away with all kinds of cheats. 882 00:38:31.700 --> 00:38:33.354 These are the decisions we made. 883 00:38:33.398 --> 00:38:35.617 Here's where we're going. This is great. 884 00:38:38.490 --> 00:38:43.669 So, Steve Williams, Mark Dippé said, 885 00:38:43.712 --> 00:38:45.061 "Why don't we just build the whole thing 886 00:38:45.105 --> 00:38:46.193 on computer graphics? 887 00:38:46.672 --> 00:38:48.151 Let's just do the whole thing." 888 00:38:52.895 --> 00:38:54.941 Yeah, that's a tough one, um-- 889 00:38:54.984 --> 00:38:56.682 Sure. Yeah, um-- 890 00:38:56.725 --> 00:38:59.162 We're all like, uh, okay? 891 00:38:59.206 --> 00:39:00.816 We're ready for this, we can do this. 892 00:39:00.860 --> 00:39:02.601 -We gotta fuckin' do it. -Oh, no. 893 00:39:02.644 --> 00:39:04.777 No, no, no, no, no. Nope. Nope. 894 00:39:04.820 --> 00:39:07.867 Muren, he's just blank. Like, Orphan Annie eyes. 895 00:39:08.346 --> 00:39:10.870 Fangmeier, he jumped in right away and said no. 896 00:39:10.913 --> 00:39:13.829 We're in the last stretches of completing Terminator 2. 897 00:39:13.873 --> 00:39:17.267 We're working 16-hour days, we're all worn out. 898 00:39:17.311 --> 00:39:19.313 So, I think we were rather cautious. 899 00:39:19.357 --> 00:39:22.751 The amount of work is so large and unknowns, so many. 900 00:39:22.795 --> 00:39:25.406 People were being negative. 901 00:39:25.450 --> 00:39:27.974 Now, look, you've done chrome, 902 00:39:28.017 --> 00:39:29.758 you've done water, 903 00:39:29.802 --> 00:39:31.412 but you've never done anything living, breathing. 904 00:39:31.456 --> 00:39:34.197 The liquid metal, poly alloy Terminator 905 00:39:34.241 --> 00:39:36.635 was simpler than a dinosaur. 906 00:39:36.678 --> 00:39:38.506 We knew we'd never done it before. 907 00:39:38.550 --> 00:39:39.986 Even The Abyss, I'd never done that before, 908 00:39:40.029 --> 00:39:41.727 but I said I could do it. 909 00:39:41.770 --> 00:39:43.032 T2, same thing, I'd never done it before, 910 00:39:43.076 --> 00:39:44.556 but I said I could do it. 911 00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:46.340 Steve Williams and Mark Dippé 912 00:39:46.384 --> 00:39:48.386 knew that the time was right. 913 00:39:48.429 --> 00:39:49.648 They could just see it. 914 00:39:50.170 --> 00:39:53.129 The opportunity was there, they wanted to seize it. 915 00:39:53.173 --> 00:39:56.437 And I think other people was like "Whoa, that's-- 916 00:39:56.481 --> 00:39:58.831 No, we're not going into this whole new realm." 917 00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:04.140 The powers that be were just so concerned. 918 00:40:05.054 --> 00:40:06.969 Phil was definitely a nay-sayer in the beginning. 919 00:40:08.493 --> 00:40:10.320 I kinda felt it was, like... 920 00:40:11.409 --> 00:40:12.453 the Wild West. 921 00:40:13.759 --> 00:40:15.413 These new guys were coming in. 922 00:40:16.109 --> 00:40:18.677 The young gunslingers, you know, 923 00:40:18.720 --> 00:40:22.028 it was like, you know, I can outdraw you. 924 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:26.554 Phil Tippett, the enfant terrible 925 00:40:26.598 --> 00:40:28.643 of stop motion visual effects. 926 00:40:29.644 --> 00:40:31.080 He'’s the real deal. 927 00:40:31.646 --> 00:40:34.170 Watching Phil Tippett work, 928 00:40:34.214 --> 00:40:36.216 it was real apparent real quick 929 00:40:36.259 --> 00:40:37.913 that he was one of those magic people. 930 00:40:40.133 --> 00:40:41.961 When you have that much talent 931 00:40:42.004 --> 00:40:44.006 and you have that much knowledge 932 00:40:44.050 --> 00:40:46.313 and you have that much work discipline, 933 00:40:46.356 --> 00:40:49.795 it makes you a sort of super, 934 00:40:49.838 --> 00:40:51.144 uber effects geek. 935 00:40:51.927 --> 00:40:53.189 And that was Phil. 936 00:40:54.843 --> 00:40:56.889 Phil Tippett and Dennis Muren both worked 937 00:40:56.932 --> 00:41:00.936 at Cascade at the early parts of their careers. 938 00:41:00.980 --> 00:41:04.462 They worked on Dragon Slayer together in 1981. 939 00:41:05.680 --> 00:41:07.595 They'’d had a long relationship. 940 00:41:08.988 --> 00:41:11.338 Right from the start, Dennis was in the position 941 00:41:11.381 --> 00:41:13.296 of having people that he knew 942 00:41:13.340 --> 00:41:15.603 that he wanted to make sure they were a part of the mix. 943 00:41:17.213 --> 00:41:19.128 Steve knew what we could do, 944 00:41:19.172 --> 00:41:20.390 and that we could push it further. 945 00:41:21.566 --> 00:41:24.569 I perceived just a slight amount of, 946 00:41:24.612 --> 00:41:27.223 you know, competition on their side, 947 00:41:27.267 --> 00:41:29.574 you know, needing to prove themselves. 948 00:41:29.617 --> 00:41:31.271 That'’s why Phil got mad. 949 00:41:31.314 --> 00:41:33.186 Because we were trying to do a stop-motion film 950 00:41:33.229 --> 00:41:34.492 using computer graphics. 951 00:41:35.188 --> 00:41:36.842 He led the camp that 952 00:41:36.885 --> 00:41:38.626 that is the wrong road to go down. 953 00:41:39.975 --> 00:41:41.586 I think from Dennis'’ point of view, 954 00:41:41.629 --> 00:41:42.804 he was worried. 955 00:41:43.762 --> 00:41:45.590 He'’s, like, "“Dude, this is a lot different 956 00:41:45.633 --> 00:41:47.026 than liquid metal."” 957 00:41:47.069 --> 00:41:49.115 And then Phil was like, 958 00:41:49.158 --> 00:41:51.770 "“Computer animation, that'’s the wrong approach."” 959 00:41:52.858 --> 00:41:55.817 The stop-motion footage was the selected solution. 960 00:41:55.861 --> 00:41:58.733 Full-scale animatronics with Stan Winston. 961 00:41:58.777 --> 00:42:00.909 That was the approach that was agreed upon 962 00:42:00.953 --> 00:42:02.520 and that was the road they were going down. 963 00:42:03.129 --> 00:42:04.826 Everything had been assigned. 964 00:42:04.870 --> 00:42:06.524 Stan'’s doing this, Phil'’s doing this, 965 00:42:06.567 --> 00:42:07.612 Stan'’s doing this and that'’s it. 966 00:42:08.090 --> 00:42:09.570 This is the technology we are using. 967 00:42:09.614 --> 00:42:11.354 There is no room for a new technology. 968 00:42:19.537 --> 00:42:21.408 There was something about being told no, 969 00:42:21.451 --> 00:42:25.281 um, you know, if you'’re rebellious, 970 00:42:25.325 --> 00:42:28.981 you know, "no" is actually really, um, a fuel for you. 971 00:42:30.069 --> 00:42:33.115 He took it upon himself to just prove it 972 00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:36.292 and the only way to prove that is to show it. 973 00:42:36.336 --> 00:42:39.121 Steve, Spaz, starts by making a skeleton. 974 00:42:42.255 --> 00:42:44.518 I literally did exactly what I did 975 00:42:44.562 --> 00:42:47.260 with the T-Rex that I did with the T-1000. 976 00:42:48.348 --> 00:42:50.002 I just built the bones. 977 00:42:50.829 --> 00:42:54.136 I built the damn thing, secretly, on my own time. 978 00:42:55.224 --> 00:42:57.009 It was a complete act of rebellion. 979 00:42:58.793 --> 00:43:00.447 I think one of the reasons they tried to stop 980 00:43:00.490 --> 00:43:02.231 that type of innovation is because 981 00:43:02.275 --> 00:43:04.625 the visual effects gurus who didn'’t theorize it, 982 00:43:04.669 --> 00:43:07.323 would be seen as having egg on their face. 983 00:43:08.498 --> 00:43:09.935 I just believed we could do it. 984 00:43:11.414 --> 00:43:12.851 But actually having to prove it, 985 00:43:13.634 --> 00:43:14.853 that was the challenge. 986 00:43:15.593 --> 00:43:16.724 Because it was all about proof. 987 00:43:18.117 --> 00:43:19.771 I remember Dennis Muren, actually, 988 00:43:19.814 --> 00:43:22.121 he had heard a rumor from one of his little 989 00:43:22.164 --> 00:43:23.862 weaselly minions that I was building 990 00:43:23.905 --> 00:43:25.080 a set of T-Rex bones. 991 00:43:25.907 --> 00:43:27.605 He told me, to my face, 992 00:43:29.171 --> 00:43:31.434 "Don'’t bother trying to build the T-Rex." 993 00:43:32.305 --> 00:43:33.523 Phil'’s doing it. 994 00:43:34.873 --> 00:43:36.265 I was saying, "Guys, don'’t do this, 995 00:43:36.309 --> 00:43:38.050 "you know, Phil-- Phil'’s my buddy, 996 00:43:38.093 --> 00:43:39.878 he'’s got the job for everything else, you know? 997 00:43:39.921 --> 00:43:41.749 And just let this play out." 998 00:43:41.793 --> 00:43:43.577 That'’s what he said. That'’s what he said. 999 00:43:43.621 --> 00:43:44.970 And he hadn'’t seen anything yet. 1000 00:43:47.712 --> 00:43:51.629 I don'’t worry about hardly anything, ever. 1001 00:43:54.762 --> 00:43:56.068 Although... 1002 00:43:57.156 --> 00:43:58.984 you know, I'’ve got this anxiety 1003 00:43:59.027 --> 00:44:01.203 that'’s like the sword of Damocles 1004 00:44:01.247 --> 00:44:02.770 that'’s hanging over my head. 1005 00:44:04.729 --> 00:44:06.426 Sometimes, I just feel like 1006 00:44:07.209 --> 00:44:08.515 something terrible''’s gonna happen. 1007 00:44:11.300 --> 00:44:13.607 Steve Williams, uh, 1008 00:44:13.651 --> 00:44:17.219 on his own, put together a Tyrannosaurus skeleton 1009 00:44:17.263 --> 00:44:19.352 and did a walk cycle. 1010 00:44:20.614 --> 00:44:25.880 ♪ 1011 00:44:30.580 --> 00:44:33.801 I don'’t think we fully realized... 1012 00:44:35.368 --> 00:44:36.543 how... 1013 00:44:38.980 --> 00:44:41.026 that was going to change everything. 1014 00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.332 It was all secret, no one knew about it. 1015 00:44:44.943 --> 00:44:46.901 There was a big meeting that was going to happen. 1016 00:44:47.772 --> 00:44:49.425 Kathleen Kennedy, 1017 00:44:49.469 --> 00:44:52.385 Frank Marshall, Dennis Muren, and Janet Healy. 1018 00:44:53.255 --> 00:44:55.301 Janet Healy is the producer, 1019 00:44:55.344 --> 00:44:58.260 Dennis Muren is the visual effects supervisor. 1020 00:44:58.304 --> 00:45:01.133 I looked at it as, like, "Oh, this is mom and dad." 1021 00:45:01.176 --> 00:45:02.438 They'’re in charge. 1022 00:45:03.831 --> 00:45:06.312 I didn''’t know when the entourage was gonna come up, 1023 00:45:06.355 --> 00:45:07.879 but I knew they were coming up eventually, 1024 00:45:07.922 --> 00:45:09.924 so I got wind of it. 1025 00:45:09.968 --> 00:45:12.579 Frank and Kathy had come in because Steven couldn'’t come in. 1026 00:45:14.015 --> 00:45:17.062 Kathleen Kennedy was Steven Spielberg'’s producer. 1027 00:45:17.105 --> 00:45:19.238 Kathleen Kennedy, Frank Marshall, 1028 00:45:19.281 --> 00:45:21.762 they were gonna come walking in on a Monday morning 1029 00:45:21.806 --> 00:45:23.808 in November in 1991. 1030 00:45:23.851 --> 00:45:25.505 And I guess the hard part of that 1031 00:45:25.548 --> 00:45:27.159 was he had to find a way to get that 1032 00:45:27.202 --> 00:45:29.465 in front of Kathleen Kennedy. 1033 00:45:30.423 --> 00:45:31.772 And he found a way to do that. 1034 00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:34.819 This was not supposed to happen. 1035 00:45:36.255 --> 00:45:38.474 Dennis and Janet, they didn'’t know it was gonna happen. 1036 00:45:40.172 --> 00:45:41.956 I had a playing on a monitor, 1037 00:45:42.827 --> 00:45:44.654 and everyone came walking in. 1038 00:45:45.830 --> 00:45:47.919 She immediately sees it right away. 1039 00:45:49.050 --> 00:45:50.269 and she goes, "“What'’s this?"” 1040 00:45:51.879 --> 00:45:53.228 I said, "“Well, I was just working on 1041 00:45:53.272 --> 00:45:55.448 this walking T-Rex bone thing."” 1042 00:45:59.234 --> 00:46:01.149 Kathleen Kennedy pats me on the back and goes, 1043 00:46:01.193 --> 00:46:03.238 "“You have a very bright future."” And that was that. 1044 00:46:04.022 --> 00:46:05.980 That'’s the first and only time I ever met her. 1045 00:46:06.415 --> 00:46:08.069 I never-- never saw her again. 1046 00:46:09.114 --> 00:46:10.985 That'’s where everything changed. 1047 00:46:11.029 --> 00:46:13.814 Dennis Muren said, "Okay, this is really interesting. 1048 00:46:13.858 --> 00:46:15.642 I didn'’t know how close we could get. 1049 00:46:15.685 --> 00:46:17.905 And then eventually some of the guys did some tests 1050 00:46:17.949 --> 00:46:19.994 on a T-Rex which came out really great 1051 00:46:20.038 --> 00:46:23.258 and surprised everybody and then we skinned that. 1052 00:46:23.302 --> 00:46:25.434 All we had at this time was a skeleton and we were going, 1053 00:46:25.478 --> 00:46:27.219 -"We can do it!" -Stan Winston is gonna set up 1054 00:46:27.262 --> 00:46:29.525 a five-foot model. Mark and I cut it up into bits 1055 00:46:30.135 --> 00:46:33.747 and we put it in a cyborg scanner and scan all the pieces. 1056 00:46:33.791 --> 00:46:35.575 I have to reconstruct 1057 00:46:35.618 --> 00:46:37.838 all the data to have the proper contour muscles. 1058 00:46:38.491 --> 00:46:41.146 I built the skin version of the T-Rex. 1059 00:46:41.624 --> 00:46:42.974 It was all working. 1060 00:46:43.409 --> 00:46:45.715 ILM, you know, largely through Steve Williams, 1061 00:46:45.759 --> 00:46:48.196 Mark Dippé, and, uh, Stefen Fangmeier 1062 00:46:48.240 --> 00:46:50.459 put together the first dinosaur tests. 1063 00:46:50.503 --> 00:46:52.287 The film couldn'’t have happened without them. 1064 00:46:52.331 --> 00:46:53.811 It certainly couldn'’t have happened 1065 00:46:53.854 --> 00:46:55.725 without Steve'’s ability to model, 1066 00:46:55.769 --> 00:46:57.162 uh, first the Terminator and then later the dinosaurs. 1067 00:46:57.205 --> 00:46:58.641 The film, at the same time, 1068 00:46:58.685 --> 00:47:00.339 also was very much still on track 1069 00:47:00.382 --> 00:47:02.167 to do, uh, stop-motion. 1070 00:47:02.907 --> 00:47:05.083 Back then, everything that we did 1071 00:47:05.126 --> 00:47:06.519 hadn'’t been done before. 1072 00:47:06.562 --> 00:47:07.694 I mean, certainly, nobody attempted 1073 00:47:07.737 --> 00:47:09.522 to do dinosaurs before. 1074 00:47:09.565 --> 00:47:14.179 They made a convincing computer graphic Tyrannosaurus. 1075 00:47:15.267 --> 00:47:17.356 The first fully skinned version. 1076 00:47:17.878 --> 00:47:19.749 And we had it walkin'’. In daylight. 1077 00:47:20.489 --> 00:47:23.449 Then Dennis and Janet with Tippett went down 1078 00:47:23.492 --> 00:47:25.843 to Universal to show it to Steven Spielberg, 1079 00:47:26.626 --> 00:47:27.888 but I wasn'’t allowed to be there. 1080 00:47:28.802 --> 00:47:30.586 I got a call from Dennis Muren at ILM, 1081 00:47:30.630 --> 00:47:32.284 who already had the job 1082 00:47:32.327 --> 00:47:33.807 of doing Jurassic Park with Phil Tippett. 1083 00:47:33.851 --> 00:47:35.504 And Dennis said that he thought 1084 00:47:35.548 --> 00:47:38.551 that he could pull off a full-sized dinosaur 1085 00:47:38.594 --> 00:47:40.858 that would be authentic to the eye. 1086 00:47:40.901 --> 00:47:42.903 Spielberg suddenly went absolutely insane 1087 00:47:42.947 --> 00:47:45.297 and said everything was gonna be computer graphics now. 1088 00:47:46.080 --> 00:47:47.081 That'’s the future. 1089 00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:50.737 That'’s the way it'’s gonna be from now on. 1090 00:48:14.804 --> 00:48:17.590 That first shot of the Brachiosaurus... 1091 00:48:19.244 --> 00:48:21.681 my jaw dropped, I had literally-- 1092 00:48:27.774 --> 00:48:29.689 And then that wide reveal 1093 00:48:29.732 --> 00:48:31.560 of them all out there on the plain. 1094 00:48:31.604 --> 00:48:33.649 ♪ 1095 00:48:37.305 --> 00:48:39.481 That'’s still the one that gets my heart. 1096 00:48:43.746 --> 00:48:45.661 I swear to God, it looked like 1097 00:48:45.705 --> 00:48:47.620 National Geographic went back in a time machine 1098 00:48:47.663 --> 00:48:49.665 and shot real dinosaurs, and that'’s what I fucking saw. 1099 00:48:49.709 --> 00:48:53.582 Those things looked real and what they were representing 1100 00:48:53.626 --> 00:48:55.541 was not some sci-fi thing. 1101 00:48:56.846 --> 00:48:58.892 As far as we know, those things moved around 1102 00:48:58.936 --> 00:49:00.459 like that and that'’s what they looked like, 1103 00:49:00.502 --> 00:49:02.809 that'’s what they did. 1104 00:49:02.852 --> 00:49:05.203 Jurassic Park took everybody by surprise. 1105 00:49:05.246 --> 00:49:06.726 Nobody saw that one coming. 1106 00:49:07.814 --> 00:49:10.773 For almost 75 years, the technology 1107 00:49:10.817 --> 00:49:14.168 and the techniques were pretty much the same. 1108 00:49:14.212 --> 00:49:17.258 Jurassic, that'’s when the computers came in. 1109 00:49:20.348 --> 00:49:22.481 That'’s when the tsunami hit. 1110 00:49:24.048 --> 00:49:26.006 Jurassic Park opened tonight 1111 00:49:26.050 --> 00:49:29.009 with predictions that it may be the biggest hit in years and, 1112 00:49:29.053 --> 00:49:30.663 like any great event, 1113 00:49:30.706 --> 00:49:32.447 people are camped out to be part of it. 1114 00:49:32.491 --> 00:49:34.232 We got here about 11 o'’clock this morning. 1115 00:49:34.275 --> 00:49:35.755 11:00 this morning for what show? 1116 00:49:35.798 --> 00:49:38.018 Uh, the 10:45 tomorrow morning. 1117 00:49:38.062 --> 00:49:42.022 That was the turning point of visual filmmaking. 1118 00:49:42.066 --> 00:49:43.893 People, especially kids, 1119 00:49:43.937 --> 00:49:46.026 - like dinosaurs. -Jurassic Park! 1120 00:49:46.070 --> 00:49:47.854 Where the giant dinosaurs live again! 1121 00:49:47.897 --> 00:49:49.464 With all the excitement 1122 00:49:49.508 --> 00:49:51.162 -of the movie! -Dino damage! 1123 00:49:51.205 --> 00:49:52.685 Only at Jurassic Park! 1124 00:49:53.947 --> 00:49:56.602 The film was supposed to be a stop-motion film. 1125 00:49:57.646 --> 00:49:59.344 Computer graphics came in 1126 00:49:59.387 --> 00:50:01.476 and completely deposed all of it. 1127 00:50:02.956 --> 00:50:05.132 It destroyed one thing, but it begat another. 1128 00:50:06.481 --> 00:50:08.701 I had come up with this test that-- 1129 00:50:08.744 --> 00:50:11.138 It seemed it revolutionized everything. 1130 00:50:11.182 --> 00:50:13.836 The call came down-- Dennis called me at home 1131 00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:16.796 and said, "I'’m afraid I have some bad news. 1132 00:50:16.839 --> 00:50:20.017 Steven'’s decided to do the whole show CG 1133 00:50:20.060 --> 00:50:22.236 and I-- You know, like the Bombay doors just, 1134 00:50:25.544 --> 00:50:27.111 You know, I saw, you know, like, 1135 00:50:27.154 --> 00:50:29.026 the-- the end and I-- "Oh, shit, 1136 00:50:29.069 --> 00:50:30.723 now what am I gonna do? 1137 00:50:30.766 --> 00:50:32.594 I thought, because I was animation supervisor 1138 00:50:32.638 --> 00:50:36.337 on, um, Terminator 2, which is very successful, 1139 00:50:36.381 --> 00:50:37.904 you know, I was gonna be 1140 00:50:37.947 --> 00:50:38.818 animation supervisor on Jurassic. 1141 00:50:40.472 --> 00:50:42.648 I literally ambushed them with the image. 1142 00:50:42.691 --> 00:50:44.563 I thought, "How much more can I do 1143 00:50:44.606 --> 00:50:46.608 to actually to prove that I came up with the idea?" 1144 00:50:47.522 --> 00:50:49.872 I thought for sure it was a slam dunk. 1145 00:50:51.309 --> 00:50:52.919 There was no definition 1146 00:50:52.962 --> 00:50:54.964 about what the jobs were on Jurassic Park. 1147 00:50:55.791 --> 00:50:57.532 So, I asked Janet Healy, 1148 00:50:57.576 --> 00:50:58.881 I said, "“Well, you know, what'’s goin' on? 1149 00:50:58.925 --> 00:51:00.666 What'’s my position?"” 1150 00:51:00.709 --> 00:51:02.537 "“You'’re just an animator on the film."” 1151 00:51:02.581 --> 00:51:05.497 "“What? Who'’s the animation supervisor?"” 1152 00:51:08.891 --> 00:51:10.589 Dennis, in all of his brilliance, 1153 00:51:11.633 --> 00:51:13.679 he has a plan B. 1154 00:51:23.210 --> 00:51:24.690 Phil Tippett wanted to actually 1155 00:51:24.733 --> 00:51:26.822 do storyboards three dimensionally 1156 00:51:26.866 --> 00:51:30.174 with little figures of dinosaurs and people 1157 00:51:30.217 --> 00:51:33.002 that would completely imitate my storyboards, 1158 00:51:33.046 --> 00:51:36.310 but flesh out my storyboards and give them dimension. 1159 00:51:36.354 --> 00:51:38.138 Storyboards don'’t show you 1160 00:51:38.182 --> 00:51:40.749 any of the-- the temporal cadence, the sequence, 1161 00:51:40.793 --> 00:51:44.318 the timing of it and, uh, the animatics allowed us 1162 00:51:44.362 --> 00:51:48.017 to-- to block out the entire, you know, sequence. 1163 00:51:49.715 --> 00:51:52.544 Phil was able to turn himself 1164 00:51:52.587 --> 00:51:54.502 into the director of the CGI dinosaurs. 1165 00:51:54.546 --> 00:51:57.940 He knew so much about dinosaurs and the behavior of animals. 1166 00:51:57.984 --> 00:51:59.899 I go into dailies at 8:00 AM 1167 00:51:59.942 --> 00:52:02.815 and there'’s Phil Tippett, who'’s now functioning 1168 00:52:02.858 --> 00:52:05.339 as the animation director for Jurassic Park. 1169 00:52:09.082 --> 00:52:12.781 Wow! And the Oscar goes to... 1170 00:52:12.825 --> 00:52:15.436 Dennis Muren, Stan Winston, Phil Tippett, 1171 00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:18.222 and Michael Lantieri for Jurassic Park ! 1172 00:52:18.265 --> 00:52:19.745 ♪ 1173 00:52:33.367 --> 00:52:35.152 Thanks, ILM. Thanks, Tippet Studios. 1174 00:52:35.195 --> 00:52:37.328 Thanks, Steven Spielberg. Thanks Mike-- 1175 00:52:54.345 --> 00:52:56.564 I'’ve always believed the people 1176 00:52:56.608 --> 00:52:59.437 that worked on the work should be acknowledged for it. 1177 00:53:01.265 --> 00:53:04.746 Any time an individual took an award 1178 00:53:04.790 --> 00:53:07.793 and took the award home and took the accolades for it, 1179 00:53:07.836 --> 00:53:09.447 to me, it was theft. 1180 00:53:11.405 --> 00:53:13.538 ILM had won 14 Oscars at that time. 1181 00:53:15.757 --> 00:53:17.629 Not one of ''‘em were at ILM. 1182 00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:20.675 Not one! 1183 00:53:22.242 --> 00:53:24.201 So, these guys had the audacity 1184 00:53:24.244 --> 00:53:27.029 to actually take this piece of shit home with them 1185 00:53:27.073 --> 00:53:29.989 when it was representing 30 or 40 people. 1186 00:53:31.817 --> 00:53:33.297 Regardless of what they do... 1187 00:53:34.298 --> 00:53:36.735 this is what their credit is on the film. 1188 00:53:36.778 --> 00:53:38.215 And if it wins an Oscar 1189 00:53:38.258 --> 00:53:39.520 for visual effects, they get it. 1190 00:53:42.088 --> 00:53:43.350 That'’s the way it works. 1191 00:53:44.656 --> 00:53:46.223 If you point to any one person 1192 00:53:46.266 --> 00:53:48.050 it couldn'’t have been done without 'em, 1193 00:53:48.094 --> 00:53:49.878 it probably is Steve, ''‘cause I don'’t know 1194 00:53:49.922 --> 00:53:51.706 that anybody else could'’ve modeled those dinosaurs, 1195 00:53:51.750 --> 00:53:53.230 I don'’t know that anybody else could'’ve set 1196 00:53:53.273 --> 00:53:54.535 the standards for animating them. 1197 00:53:54.579 --> 00:53:55.754 I don'’t know that we would'’ve even tried. 1198 00:53:59.845 --> 00:54:00.933 I'’m not a diplomat. 1199 00:54:02.630 --> 00:54:03.718 I never have been. 1200 00:54:05.416 --> 00:54:07.766 To a fault, I'’ve been a very bad diplomat. 1201 00:54:10.116 --> 00:54:12.292 I'’m not political, I'’m not political, 1202 00:54:12.336 --> 00:54:14.294 I've-- I'’ve never been political. 1203 00:54:14.338 --> 00:54:16.122 Right? I'’m not good at it. 1204 00:54:16.165 --> 00:54:17.471 You know, I-- Look at me, for fuck'’s sakes, 1205 00:54:17.515 --> 00:54:18.820 man, I look like fuckin'’ Popeye. 1206 00:54:18.864 --> 00:54:20.518 You know? Fuck. 1207 00:54:20.561 --> 00:54:22.563 After Jurassic, I did a bunch of interviews 1208 00:54:22.607 --> 00:54:24.696 and stuff like that and I told the truth about what happened. 1209 00:54:24.739 --> 00:54:26.611 The entire film ofJurassic was-- 1210 00:54:26.654 --> 00:54:27.786 This is Jurassic Park? 1211 00:54:27.829 --> 00:54:28.961 Right. 1212 00:54:37.491 --> 00:54:39.058 I was told not to do it 1213 00:54:39.101 --> 00:54:40.842 by my supervisors and I did it, you know? 1214 00:54:40.886 --> 00:54:42.366 I built it. 1215 00:54:42.931 --> 00:54:44.585 Dennis Muren got mad at me a few times. 1216 00:54:45.282 --> 00:54:48.372 He pulled me into his office and he said, 1217 00:54:48.415 --> 00:54:50.243 "I don'’t know why you'’re saying all this." 1218 00:54:50.287 --> 00:54:52.201 And then I said, "Well, Dennis, this is what happened." 1219 00:54:52.245 --> 00:54:55.030 And he goes, "You'’re committing political suicide." 1220 00:54:55.074 --> 00:54:56.684 That'’s what he told me. 1221 00:54:56.728 --> 00:54:58.686 Steve Williams foresees the day 1222 00:54:58.730 --> 00:55:01.341 when it will be commonplace for computer generated actors 1223 00:55:01.385 --> 00:55:04.257 to star alongside real actors. 1224 00:55:04.301 --> 00:55:06.215 I think that you'’ll have characters acting 1225 00:55:06.259 --> 00:55:09.436 with current famous people, um, that are computer generated, 1226 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:11.264 but you'’ll also be able to introduce characters 1227 00:55:11.308 --> 00:55:14.006 that have been dead for 50 or 60 years. 1228 00:55:14.049 --> 00:55:15.877 In the future, I mean, it'’s quite obvious what'’ll happen. 1229 00:55:15.921 --> 00:55:18.489 It will actually scan the actor in a polygonal data set 1230 00:55:18.532 --> 00:55:19.794 of computer generated data-- 1231 00:55:19.838 --> 00:55:21.840 Are they worried about this? 1232 00:55:21.883 --> 00:55:23.624 -If I was an actor I'’d, uh-- -Actually, SAG, 1233 00:55:23.668 --> 00:55:25.322 the Screen Actors Guild, is very interested in it. 1234 00:55:25.365 --> 00:55:27.193 Are actors right to have concerns 1235 00:55:27.236 --> 00:55:28.629 that they'’ll eventually be phased out all together? 1236 00:55:28.673 --> 00:55:30.805 This will be abused and-- and-- 1237 00:55:30.849 --> 00:55:32.633 and the trick is for all of us to stand up 1238 00:55:32.677 --> 00:55:34.331 and say, "No, that'’s wrong, 1239 00:55:34.374 --> 00:55:35.767 This is a violation, 1240 00:55:35.810 --> 00:55:37.595 this is not what we should be doing. 1241 00:55:37.638 --> 00:55:39.727 Synthetic actors are inevitable, there'’s no doubt. 1242 00:55:39.771 --> 00:55:41.425 We'’re talking about the morals! 1243 00:55:41.468 --> 00:55:42.948 This is unfortunately what'’s happening. 1244 00:55:42.991 --> 00:55:44.993 To be human is to bleed, 1245 00:55:45.037 --> 00:55:46.995 is to have a soul, is to breathe. 1246 00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:48.954 See-- see, we'’re not trying to duplicate human beings, 1247 00:55:48.997 --> 00:55:51.173 but what you'’re seeing is subjective already. 1248 00:55:51.217 --> 00:55:52.914 How many times have you met an actor 1249 00:55:52.958 --> 00:55:54.916 who'’s either shorter or smaller in person? 1250 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:56.875 So, what you'’re seeing is already an "interpretation" 1251 00:55:56.918 --> 00:55:59.094 -of what they look like. -Absolutely. 1252 00:55:59.138 --> 00:56:01.140 -This is what we'’re trying-- -We'’re down 1253 00:56:01.183 --> 00:56:02.750 -to our last two minutes. -Good afternoon, 1254 00:56:02.794 --> 00:56:04.273 my name is Thomas White, I handle Artists' Rights 1255 00:56:04.317 --> 00:56:05.884 Enforcement Matters for the estate 1256 00:56:05.927 --> 00:56:07.320 of Fred Astaire, the estate of Orson Welles, 1257 00:56:07.364 --> 00:56:08.800 and the director, Stanley Kramer. 1258 00:56:08.843 --> 00:56:10.671 All uses from my clients get licensed. 1259 00:56:10.715 --> 00:56:12.412 If they don'’t get licensed, they get prosecuted. 1260 00:56:12.456 --> 00:56:13.979 -It'’s that simple. -Good. 1261 00:56:14.022 --> 00:56:16.416 And the damages-- the damages that we seek 1262 00:56:16.460 --> 00:56:18.897 and the attorney's fees are extraordinarily high. 1263 00:56:18.940 --> 00:56:21.334 Thank you all very much and I think we'’re done. 1264 00:56:23.423 --> 00:56:25.469 They all denied what we were doing. 1265 00:56:26.121 --> 00:56:28.167 And, to me, that'’s a fight. 1266 00:56:29.342 --> 00:56:31.039 You wanna fuckin'’ get in a fight, man? 1267 00:56:31.083 --> 00:56:32.563 You wanna fuckin'’ drop the gloves? 1268 00:56:32.606 --> 00:56:34.303 You wanna go? Let'’s go. 1269 00:56:38.917 --> 00:56:40.788 When it comes to special effects 1270 00:56:40.832 --> 00:56:43.008 in the movies today, the question really isn'’t 1271 00:56:43.051 --> 00:56:46.925 what can they do, the question is what can'’t they do? 1272 00:56:46.968 --> 00:56:49.362 For the most part, I like having fun and having a good laugh. 1273 00:56:49.406 --> 00:56:51.146 Cartoons are what got me into this thing. 1274 00:56:51.190 --> 00:56:53.279 Animation supervisor Steve Williams, 1275 00:56:53.322 --> 00:56:55.716 whose credits include The Abyss and Jurassic Park 1276 00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:58.240 has been a cartoon buff all his life. 1277 00:56:58.284 --> 00:57:02.114 After Jurassic, I just didn'’t give a crap. 1278 00:57:02.157 --> 00:57:03.724 Everybody can go fuck themselves. 1279 00:57:04.943 --> 00:57:07.075 These are the fuckin'’ good days, man. 1280 00:57:08.250 --> 00:57:10.949 He was uncontrollable. 1281 00:57:10.992 --> 00:57:15.954 This masculine, tough guy that could not be harnessed. 1282 00:57:16.563 --> 00:57:19.131 That was kinda my first experience working with him. 1283 00:57:19.784 --> 00:57:22.134 When you are in Steve'’s orbit, 1284 00:57:22.961 --> 00:57:26.443 it was like you were in the spotlight with him. 1285 00:57:27.792 --> 00:57:30.751 You knew if you were gonna be in his company 1286 00:57:30.795 --> 00:57:33.928 that you were gonna feel like the queen of the world. 1287 00:57:35.495 --> 00:57:37.628 We grew to fall in love with each other. 1288 00:57:38.977 --> 00:57:42.459 We started a relationship that was very intense. 1289 00:57:43.024 --> 00:57:46.767 We wanted to start a family and I moved up to Marin 1290 00:57:46.811 --> 00:57:49.509 from the city and it was like boom, boom, boom. 1291 00:57:49.553 --> 00:57:51.468 I'’m starting the clock. It'’s supposed to be-- 1292 00:57:51.511 --> 00:57:53.078 I'’m totally shaking. 1293 00:57:53.121 --> 00:57:54.645 It's supposed to be two minutes. 1294 00:57:54.688 --> 00:57:55.776 Okay, I just peed on that thing. 1295 00:57:55.820 --> 00:57:57.343 It'’s fucking pink! 1296 00:57:57.386 --> 00:57:58.910 I know, I don'’t believe it! 1297 00:57:58.953 --> 00:58:00.085 I think you did it. 1298 00:58:00.128 --> 00:58:01.695 You big stud! 1299 00:58:01.739 --> 00:58:03.480 You big stud! You did it! 1300 00:58:03.523 --> 00:58:05.046 We never got married. 1301 00:58:05.090 --> 00:58:07.005 We'’re gonna be like hippies, man. 1302 00:58:07.048 --> 00:58:09.094 Not get married and have a kid, and it was great, you know? 1303 00:58:11.879 --> 00:58:13.925 Hannah came along and that was a new world, 1304 00:58:13.968 --> 00:58:15.187 that'’s for sure. 1305 00:58:16.971 --> 00:58:19.278 You think you know it all, but this door gets opened. 1306 00:58:20.584 --> 00:58:21.628 Fatherhood. 1307 00:58:22.499 --> 00:58:24.762 What do you got, Hannah? Tell me about your new car. 1308 00:58:24.805 --> 00:58:26.633 Um, I don'’t want to. 1309 00:58:26.677 --> 00:58:28.505 Okay, are you gonna take it for a drive now? 1310 00:58:34.598 --> 00:58:36.469 It'’s really easy to hold on 1311 00:58:36.513 --> 00:58:39.559 to those perfect experiences 1312 00:58:39.603 --> 00:58:41.082 or a perfect time in your life 1313 00:58:41.126 --> 00:58:42.954 or when "“everything was better." 1314 00:58:44.999 --> 00:58:47.045 The movie making world changed. 1315 00:58:48.437 --> 00:58:50.352 He was right there, you know? 1316 00:58:50.396 --> 00:58:52.529 He was on the frontlines of doing that. 1317 00:58:52.572 --> 00:58:55.532 Dippé and me in a meat locker! 1318 00:58:55.575 --> 00:58:56.968 "The revolution is them." 1319 00:58:59.492 --> 00:59:01.538 Jurassicopened the doors for all movies, 1320 00:59:02.016 --> 00:59:03.583 so it transformed filmmaking. 1321 00:59:03.627 --> 00:59:06.194 Everybody wanted digital. 1322 00:59:06.238 --> 00:59:08.545 Computer graphics was the hot, new thing. 1323 00:59:12.157 --> 00:59:13.332 After Jurassic Park, 1324 00:59:14.028 --> 00:59:15.552 filmmaking went off the rails. 1325 00:59:15.595 --> 00:59:17.292 Computers allowed them to-- 1326 00:59:17.945 --> 00:59:20.513 to make these spectacles. 1327 00:59:20.557 --> 00:59:23.516 Producers are always looking for the magic ticket, 1328 00:59:23.560 --> 00:59:26.258 the secret button, and they suddenly said 1329 00:59:26.301 --> 00:59:28.347 if it'’s got digital effects, 1330 00:59:28.390 --> 00:59:30.436 that'’s the button you press that makes a gazillion bucks. 1331 00:59:30.479 --> 00:59:32.656 They think the more of this little thing 1332 00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:35.310 that'’s great, you know, and by increasing it 1333 00:59:35.354 --> 00:59:37.312 in these films, it'’s gonna make the film better, 1334 00:59:37.356 --> 00:59:38.749 and it hasn'’t, it's actually destroyed filmmaking. 1335 00:59:38.792 --> 00:59:40.446 More junk, more junk, more junk, 1336 00:59:40.489 --> 00:59:42.187 faster, more junk, more junk-- 1337 00:59:46.104 --> 00:59:50.108 A successful movie is built on a triangle. 1338 00:59:50.151 --> 00:59:53.198 You have art, on another point you have technology, 1339 00:59:53.241 --> 00:59:55.461 and the other part you have business. 1340 00:59:55.504 --> 00:59:58.638 And if any side gets too big or too small, 1341 00:59:58.682 --> 01:00:00.727 the motion picture will suffer. 1342 01:00:02.468 --> 01:00:05.645 And it became more about style over substance. 1343 01:00:05.689 --> 01:00:08.648 We saw all kinds of horrible movies 1344 01:00:08.692 --> 01:00:10.389 with lots of visual effects. 1345 01:00:10.432 --> 01:00:11.695 You know what we got rewarded for? 1346 01:00:11.738 --> 01:00:13.653 For fuckin'’ Jurassic Park? 1347 01:00:13.697 --> 01:00:15.612 Casper the Friendly Ghost. 1348 01:00:15.655 --> 01:00:17.178 I hated Casperwhen it was 2D. 1349 01:00:17.526 --> 01:00:19.790 Uh, Hi? 1350 01:00:19.833 --> 01:00:24.533 The concept became, "Let'’s redo everything digitally," 1351 01:00:24.577 --> 01:00:26.710 right, that was done in a two-dimensional medium. 1352 01:00:26.753 --> 01:00:28.407 I mean, if you look at something like Scooby Doo, 1353 01:00:28.668 --> 01:00:33.325 this ridiculously stupid-looking cartoon dog, 1354 01:00:34.195 --> 01:00:38.286 it'’s like, "No! That thing does not exist in our world! 1355 01:00:38.330 --> 01:00:41.202 I refuse to believe it! Take it away!" 1356 01:00:45.729 --> 01:00:46.991 ♪ Through the 1357 01:00:47.034 --> 01:00:49.080 This was the period when 1358 01:00:49.123 --> 01:00:52.736 motion pictures stopped being director-controlled 1359 01:00:52.779 --> 01:00:54.563 and started becoming corporate-driven. 1360 01:00:55.173 --> 01:00:57.175 And this was the beginning of the end. 1361 01:00:59.481 --> 01:01:01.266 The corporations have just kind of 1362 01:01:01.309 --> 01:01:02.571 taken everything over. 1363 01:01:03.442 --> 01:01:05.400 And fucked everything up. 1364 01:01:06.097 --> 01:01:07.185 And... 1365 01:01:07.881 --> 01:01:10.014 But they can still sell, you know, 1366 01:01:10.057 --> 01:01:12.059 lots of Coca-Cola, you know? 1367 01:01:12.103 --> 01:01:13.365 And... 1368 01:01:14.409 --> 01:01:15.976 crummy superhero movies. 1369 01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:20.938 Because of the success of Mask 1370 01:01:20.981 --> 01:01:23.941 we ended up producing a very popular comic 1371 01:01:23.984 --> 01:01:25.377 at the time called Spawn. 1372 01:01:31.122 --> 01:01:32.645 That was Mark and my foray 1373 01:01:32.689 --> 01:01:34.821 to getting into making our own films. 1374 01:01:35.126 --> 01:01:38.216 So, we leave ILM, boom. Gone, you know? 1375 01:01:38.259 --> 01:01:39.608 Then we end up hiring back the company 1376 01:01:39.652 --> 01:01:40.740 to do the visual effects. 1377 01:01:57.801 --> 01:01:59.498 ♪ Out came the sun 1378 01:01:59.541 --> 01:02:02.327 After Spawn, I don'’t have a job. 1379 01:02:02.980 --> 01:02:04.068 No job. 1380 01:02:05.765 --> 01:02:07.985 So, I was asked to do the visual effects 1381 01:02:08.028 --> 01:02:10.683 on The Hulkat ILM. 1382 01:02:12.250 --> 01:02:14.861 and then that article comes out about pencil neck geeks. 1383 01:02:14.905 --> 01:02:18.952 ♪ 1384 01:02:25.742 --> 01:02:27.874 Dennis Muren basically said, 1385 01:02:27.918 --> 01:02:29.876 "How much more of this do we have to take?" 1386 01:02:32.052 --> 01:02:34.881 Gone from ILM, kicked out. 1387 01:02:34.925 --> 01:02:36.578 I was done with them, they were done with me. 1388 01:02:39.538 --> 01:02:40.931 After all these years... 1389 01:02:42.889 --> 01:02:44.021 I'’ll never forget it. 1390 01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:49.983 What made him brilliant and a maverick 1391 01:02:50.027 --> 01:02:54.509 and a magnetic draw for many of us 1392 01:02:55.293 --> 01:02:56.903 soon became something 1393 01:02:56.947 --> 01:02:59.688 that I felt he needed to outgrow. 1394 01:03:02.604 --> 01:03:03.867 She just didn'’t like my antics. 1395 01:03:04.868 --> 01:03:05.999 She didn'’t like the drinking. 1396 01:03:07.740 --> 01:03:10.656 Everybody who'’s with me changes, right? 1397 01:03:10.699 --> 01:03:12.223 But they have to understand that I don'’t change. 1398 01:03:12.266 --> 01:03:13.572 I'’m always the fucking same. 1399 01:03:13.615 --> 01:03:15.617 Always. Right or wrong. 1400 01:03:17.532 --> 01:03:20.840 -Hm? What keeps me from-- -From changing. 1401 01:03:20.884 --> 01:03:22.450 What keeps me from changing? 1402 01:03:22.494 --> 01:03:24.975 Stupidity. 1403 01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:27.368 I know nothin'’ else. 1404 01:03:30.981 --> 01:03:33.853 He was really good in the therapy sessions and... 1405 01:03:34.854 --> 01:03:36.987 the moment we got home he was like, 1406 01:03:37.030 --> 01:03:38.815 "“Oh, fuck that shit, you know, I'’m not gonna change, you know, 1407 01:03:38.858 --> 01:03:40.729 this is who I am, this is who I am, 1408 01:03:40.773 --> 01:03:42.166 this is what people love, this is what people expect, 1409 01:03:42.209 --> 01:03:43.515 I'’m Spaz, you know." 1410 01:03:43.558 --> 01:03:45.952 And I kind of naively thought, 1411 01:03:45.996 --> 01:03:49.521 "Well, let'’s give it some time and maybe he will change." 1412 01:03:53.568 --> 01:03:54.831 Give me a smile, honey. 1413 01:03:54.874 --> 01:03:56.658 Hi. 1414 01:03:56.702 --> 01:03:58.269 I'’m just kind of in a rush right now, as usual. 1415 01:03:58.312 --> 01:03:59.879 And as soon as Hannah discovers I'm gone, 1416 01:03:59.923 --> 01:04:01.576 then I will have no extra hands-- 1417 01:04:01.620 --> 01:04:03.317 I figure it'’s a good thing if I have 1418 01:04:03.361 --> 01:04:04.884 the camera on, then you won'’t yell at me. 1419 01:04:04.928 --> 01:04:06.407 I don'’t yell that much. 1420 01:04:06.451 --> 01:04:09.367 Excuse me. Steve, please, okay? 1421 01:04:09.933 --> 01:04:11.586 Hi! 1422 01:04:11.630 --> 01:04:13.850 -Where are we going, sweetie? 1423 01:04:15.068 --> 01:04:16.853 Hey, look! 1424 01:04:16.896 --> 01:04:18.506 Visual effects supervisors strapped to the fence! 1425 01:04:18.550 --> 01:04:20.117 Isn'’t that funny? 1426 01:04:20.160 --> 01:04:21.901 What? I'’m sorry. 1427 01:04:21.945 --> 01:04:23.337 -What-- what did I say? -. 1428 01:04:23.381 --> 01:04:24.295 What am I not allowed to do now? 1429 01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:27.994 My parents split up when I was three. 1430 01:04:29.517 --> 01:04:32.956 It kind of just became normal 1431 01:04:32.999 --> 01:04:34.740 that my parents weren'’t together? 1432 01:04:34.783 --> 01:04:36.916 You know, my mom moved to San Rafael, 1433 01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:38.613 my dad still had the house. 1434 01:04:41.312 --> 01:04:44.358 Steve decided to take his career in a new direction, 1435 01:04:44.402 --> 01:04:46.012 so he was off feature films 1436 01:04:46.056 --> 01:04:47.971 and he was starting to direct commercials. 1437 01:04:50.974 --> 01:04:52.801 Blockbuster campaign. 1438 01:04:52.845 --> 01:04:53.933 It was very successful. 1439 01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:57.981 We get approached by Disney, who has a film called 1440 01:04:58.024 --> 01:05:01.593 The Wild, and so we end up working on this movie. 1441 01:05:02.507 --> 01:05:05.162 2003, I was working as an assistant editor 1442 01:05:05.205 --> 01:05:06.337 for the movie, The Wild. 1443 01:05:06.380 --> 01:05:07.816 Hello, Spaz! 1444 01:05:09.166 --> 01:05:12.386 I was just so in love with Steve. 1445 01:05:12.996 --> 01:05:14.606 I really felt like he was my soulmate. 1446 01:05:15.607 --> 01:05:19.393 And we made a fantastic home together. 1447 01:05:19.437 --> 01:05:21.874 Okay, Christmas! 2005! 1448 01:05:21.918 --> 01:05:23.223 Christmas! -Christmas! 1449 01:05:23.267 --> 01:05:24.746 2005! 1450 01:05:24.790 --> 01:05:26.139 -Here, look, Hannah. -Hi! 1451 01:05:26.183 --> 01:05:27.575 He put a lot of love 1452 01:05:27.619 --> 01:05:28.968 and craftsmanship into that house. 1453 01:05:29.577 --> 01:05:31.014 It was warm and cozy, 1454 01:05:31.057 --> 01:05:33.190 unique, fun, creative place to be. 1455 01:05:34.931 --> 01:05:36.715 We decided to get married in the backyard. 1456 01:05:43.026 --> 01:05:45.985 Oh, yeah, baby! 1457 01:05:46.029 --> 01:05:50.207 ♪ 1458 01:05:50.250 --> 01:05:53.036 When we got back from Toronto after The Wild, 1459 01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:55.168 it was really hard for those of us 1460 01:05:55.212 --> 01:05:56.691 on the film to get work 1461 01:05:56.735 --> 01:05:59.390 because the film was so poorly received. 1462 01:05:59.433 --> 01:06:01.740 It was a drag. It was a drag. 1463 01:06:01.783 --> 01:06:03.916 And then, so, I went back to commercials again. 1464 01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:05.831 Which one would be better, 1465 01:06:05.874 --> 01:06:08.529 to knock a guy off of a motorcycle? 1466 01:06:08.573 --> 01:06:11.358 Road Rash 3D. 1467 01:06:13.882 --> 01:06:15.580 You know, either you'’re the flavor of the month 1468 01:06:15.623 --> 01:06:16.755 or you'’re not. 1469 01:06:18.887 --> 01:06:20.585 It'’s just a very fickle business. 1470 01:06:23.980 --> 01:06:26.112 Things just stalled for me. 1471 01:06:28.897 --> 01:06:31.378 The commercials, those dried up. 1472 01:06:32.814 --> 01:06:35.817 Nothing was really coming in that was substantial enough. 1473 01:06:38.603 --> 01:06:39.865 The world had changed. 1474 01:06:41.649 --> 01:06:43.564 Sometimes, you'’re rewarded by, 1475 01:06:43.608 --> 01:06:47.264 uh, your longevity in-- in doing things 1476 01:06:47.307 --> 01:06:51.007 and, you know, those guys were relatively new to the game. 1477 01:06:51.833 --> 01:06:55.446 And, uh, they moved on very quickly 1478 01:06:55.489 --> 01:06:58.405 to wanting to direct their own stuff. 1479 01:06:59.102 --> 01:07:02.235 So, they moved into a whole 'nother zone 1480 01:07:02.279 --> 01:07:04.107 and then they kind of didn'’t come back. 1481 01:07:06.761 --> 01:07:09.199 The problem with this racket is that 1482 01:07:09.242 --> 01:07:10.504 if you'’re not... 1483 01:07:12.028 --> 01:07:14.769 in it, you-- Then you'’re not in it. 1484 01:07:17.076 --> 01:07:18.904 And he hadn'’t been in the game for a long time. 1485 01:07:21.124 --> 01:07:22.429 You know, you just get forgotten. 1486 01:07:28.131 --> 01:07:29.523 I reapplied to ILM. 1487 01:07:32.091 --> 01:07:33.179 They shut me down. 1488 01:07:35.616 --> 01:07:37.444 They don'’t want me back there and I don'’t blame ''‘em. 1489 01:07:38.489 --> 01:07:39.794 I don'’t blame ''‘em at all. 1490 01:07:42.841 --> 01:07:44.451 If I'’d been more political... 1491 01:07:45.713 --> 01:07:47.628 I wouldn'’t be struggling right now 1492 01:07:47.672 --> 01:07:50.022 to pay my God damn mortgage. 1493 01:07:59.162 --> 01:08:02.252 That rejection on a big stage... 1494 01:08:04.167 --> 01:08:07.996 I don'’t think I'll ever know 1495 01:08:08.040 --> 01:08:11.870 the true effects of what that feels like for him. 1496 01:08:13.001 --> 01:08:16.701 All of those feelings, like, just completely resurfaced 1497 01:08:16.744 --> 01:08:18.224 and he didn'’t know how to handle it. 1498 01:08:22.141 --> 01:08:25.231 It was a snowball of... 1499 01:08:26.232 --> 01:08:29.061 bad memories, guilt, 1500 01:08:29.105 --> 01:08:31.672 lack of clarity about certain things. 1501 01:08:34.284 --> 01:08:36.895 He just started drinking more. 1502 01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:41.160 It'’s a way to cover up 1503 01:08:41.204 --> 01:08:42.814 all the things you feel shitty about. 1504 01:08:44.990 --> 01:08:46.774 We were down at the pub every single day, 1505 01:08:46.818 --> 01:08:48.863 drinking for about three hours every night and then 1506 01:08:48.907 --> 01:08:52.867 that sort of grew into drinking before we went to the pub, 1507 01:08:52.911 --> 01:08:55.348 and, um, just getting into, 1508 01:08:55.392 --> 01:08:58.395 just the worst knock down, drag-out, 1509 01:08:58.438 --> 01:09:01.398 awful fights when we got home. 1510 01:09:03.051 --> 01:09:04.575 So, I finally worked up the courage 1511 01:09:04.618 --> 01:09:05.837 to walk into an AA meeting. 1512 01:09:06.794 --> 01:09:10.058 You go, you keep going back, and I got sober, 1513 01:09:10.102 --> 01:09:12.974 I stayed sober and, I'’m gonna sound like an AA thumper, 1514 01:09:13.018 --> 01:09:14.933 but by the grace of God I'’m still sober 1515 01:09:14.976 --> 01:09:17.196 and my marriage fell apart. 1516 01:09:19.546 --> 01:09:21.461 I knew that if I didn'’t move out, 1517 01:09:21.505 --> 01:09:22.723 I wouldn'’t stay sober. 1518 01:09:23.811 --> 01:09:26.118 It'’s common where... 1519 01:09:26.771 --> 01:09:29.730 two alcoholics, one gets sober and the other doesn'’t. 1520 01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:33.169 Well, I thought we were doin'’ okay. 1521 01:09:41.655 --> 01:09:43.266 Ellen, please, I-- 1522 01:09:52.362 --> 01:09:55.234 She left to light a fire 1523 01:09:55.278 --> 01:09:57.889 under my dad'’s ass, like, "“Hey, you gotta clean up your act 1524 01:09:57.932 --> 01:09:59.238 or I'’m gone for good." 1525 01:10:00.500 --> 01:10:02.807 The train was goin'’ 200 miles an hour. 1526 01:10:03.547 --> 01:10:05.505 I was either gonna go into the wall with it, 1527 01:10:05.549 --> 01:10:07.159 or I was gonna get off 1528 01:10:07.638 --> 01:10:11.207 and hope that Steve could get off before it-- it killed him. 1529 01:10:11.250 --> 01:10:13.426 So, I think she wanted to scare him a little bit. 1530 01:10:15.036 --> 01:10:16.777 And it only made it worse. 1531 01:10:24.045 --> 01:10:25.873 Boredom is destructive. 1532 01:10:31.618 --> 01:10:33.229 I'’m just waiting for another mission. 1533 01:10:35.796 --> 01:10:37.145 I don'’t have a mission anymore. 1534 01:10:42.673 --> 01:10:44.849 He completely isolated himself. 1535 01:10:46.067 --> 01:10:47.547 Lost a bunch of weight. 1536 01:10:48.809 --> 01:10:50.942 You know, he just looked sick. 1537 01:10:50.985 --> 01:10:52.160 It was awful. 1538 01:10:53.814 --> 01:10:56.817 He was waking up at noon. 1539 01:10:56.861 --> 01:10:57.949 Drinking. 1540 01:10:58.602 --> 01:11:00.168 Passing out at 4:00. 1541 01:11:00.821 --> 01:11:04.172 Waking up again at 7:00. 1542 01:11:04.216 --> 01:11:05.696 Drinking. 1543 01:11:05.739 --> 01:11:07.393 Passing out at midnight, 1544 01:11:07.437 --> 01:11:10.353 waking up at 4 AM to drink. 1545 01:11:12.224 --> 01:11:13.573 To see him... 1546 01:11:15.314 --> 01:11:16.446 plummet... 1547 01:11:17.185 --> 01:11:18.709 like, headfirst... 1548 01:11:19.840 --> 01:11:21.146 into the deep end... 1549 01:11:22.147 --> 01:11:24.497 that was one of the hardest things 1550 01:11:24.541 --> 01:11:25.672 to ever deal with. 1551 01:11:25.716 --> 01:11:28.371 ♪ 1552 01:11:32.636 --> 01:11:35.247 I don'’t think it'’s gonna end well for me. 1553 01:11:39.295 --> 01:11:40.513 God damn it. 1554 01:11:40.557 --> 01:11:42.341 I think it'’s gonna end bad. 1555 01:12:03.841 --> 01:12:06.452 -Fuck you! 1556 01:13:00.463 --> 01:13:02.029 I'’ve never been an adult. 1557 01:13:06.599 --> 01:13:09.297 I'’ve never been an adult, I'’ve only been, um... 1558 01:13:10.298 --> 01:13:12.736 I'’ve been a child, right, that kind of... 1559 01:13:14.128 --> 01:13:16.000 grew up, but, you know... 1560 01:13:18.045 --> 01:13:19.786 loves Saturday morning cartoons 1561 01:13:19.830 --> 01:13:21.919 and I-- I kind of wish that every day 1562 01:13:21.962 --> 01:13:24.617 was a Saturday morning cartoon, but it'’s not. 1563 01:13:25.444 --> 01:13:26.489 You know? 1564 01:13:38.979 --> 01:13:40.285 I'’m an alcoholic. 1565 01:13:42.983 --> 01:13:46.117 And... I lost my family. 1566 01:13:50.077 --> 01:13:51.339 I lost them all. 1567 01:13:56.606 --> 01:13:58.042 I just need a mission. 1568 01:14:01.611 --> 01:14:03.003 I have to invent the mission. 1569 01:14:06.529 --> 01:14:07.834 And what is the mission? 1570 01:14:10.446 --> 01:14:11.490 To sober up. 1571 01:14:13.623 --> 01:14:14.841 Hopefully, that'’ll-- 1572 01:14:15.668 --> 01:14:18.062 You know, resolve and some of it works out. 1573 01:14:18.889 --> 01:14:24.285 ♪ 1574 01:14:31.771 --> 01:14:32.946 It'’s Diane. 1575 01:14:35.340 --> 01:14:37.385 She'’s a sweetheart. Hi, Di. 1576 01:14:43.217 --> 01:14:45.698 Diane'’s a nurse, she'’s an RN, yeah. 1577 01:14:47.526 --> 01:14:48.919 She knows I'’m a mess. 1578 01:14:49.659 --> 01:14:52.792 Ready? What''’re you drinking there? 1579 01:14:52.836 --> 01:14:54.446 -A cider. -Hard cider? 1580 01:14:54.490 --> 01:14:55.926 Yeah. 1581 01:14:55.969 --> 01:14:57.754 Can you not drink that, please? 1582 01:14:57.797 --> 01:14:59.059 -You'’re on the property. -I'’m sorry. 1583 01:14:59.843 --> 01:15:01.584 -All right. -Don'’t drink that! 1584 01:15:01.627 --> 01:15:03.803 Gimme that! No, you-- you can'’t. 1585 01:15:05.239 --> 01:15:06.937 -Give it to him. -I'’m sorry. 1586 01:15:07.633 --> 01:15:09.505 Okay. That'’s all right. 1587 01:15:09.548 --> 01:15:11.898 We gotta get you in nursing and get your intake done. 1588 01:15:11.942 --> 01:15:13.770 So, you can, uh, grab your stuff. 1589 01:15:13.813 --> 01:15:15.336 You have to leave your camera in here. 1590 01:15:15.380 --> 01:15:16.512 Yeah, I got it. 1591 01:15:16.947 --> 01:15:18.731 Just a couple of these... 1592 01:15:19.906 --> 01:15:25.085 ♪ 1593 01:15:38.795 --> 01:15:40.187 So, it was time to smarten up. 1594 01:15:42.668 --> 01:15:43.930 Time to grow up. 1595 01:15:49.588 --> 01:15:51.459 I wouldn'’t be standing here if I had not made 1596 01:15:51.503 --> 01:15:53.157 that decision eight months ago. 1597 01:15:54.767 --> 01:15:56.116 Um... 1598 01:15:57.857 --> 01:15:59.076 It'’s a lot quieter. 1599 01:15:59.903 --> 01:16:01.600 I'’ve sort of shut down all the old ways, 1600 01:16:01.644 --> 01:16:03.515 all the old places, all the old people. 1601 01:16:04.385 --> 01:16:06.431 You know? Now, I'’m just stuck with me. 1602 01:16:08.172 --> 01:16:09.303 Which is good and bad. 1603 01:16:11.262 --> 01:16:13.569 I have to be very careful because beer was used 1604 01:16:13.612 --> 01:16:16.702 to run away from myself and I have myself only 1605 01:16:16.746 --> 01:16:18.486 and I have to be very, very careful. 1606 01:16:19.966 --> 01:16:23.491 You know, I always occupy my mind with things to do. 1607 01:16:24.405 --> 01:16:25.493 That''’s the most important thing. 1608 01:16:26.973 --> 01:16:30.150 Even if it includes something so simple as doing the dishes. 1609 01:16:34.198 --> 01:16:36.113 Being an adult is a very strange thing. 1610 01:16:38.855 --> 01:16:40.596 But looking in the mirror, 1611 01:16:40.639 --> 01:16:42.162 you'’re not frightened of yourself anymore. 1612 01:16:44.687 --> 01:16:46.297 So, where the journey'’s gonna take me now, 1613 01:16:46.340 --> 01:16:47.646 I don'’t know. 1614 01:16:47.690 --> 01:16:49.779 At 57, that'’s a good question. 1615 01:16:51.694 --> 01:16:54.174 This is kind of like being at a bus depot 1616 01:16:54.697 --> 01:16:56.307 and the next bus that comes along, 1617 01:16:56.350 --> 01:16:58.091 you don'’t know where it's going. 1618 01:16:58.614 --> 01:17:00.746 But, while you'’re at the depot, you get to pick up 1619 01:17:00.790 --> 01:17:02.226 some of your old hobbies 1620 01:17:02.269 --> 01:17:04.750 that you enjoyed and not have the threat 1621 01:17:04.794 --> 01:17:07.579 of taking your finger off ''‘cause you'’ve had a six-pack. 1622 01:17:10.713 --> 01:17:14.064 He'’s a lot more self-aware now. 1623 01:17:14.107 --> 01:17:16.327 And he'’s a lot more aware 1624 01:17:16.370 --> 01:17:19.765 of I'’d say, people and their needs. 1625 01:17:22.463 --> 01:17:24.030 I think the pain 1626 01:17:24.727 --> 01:17:28.556 of certain things in his life will never go away. 1627 01:17:30.167 --> 01:17:33.387 But he still has so much to give. 1628 01:17:34.388 --> 01:17:37.130 Welcome to the expert series. 1629 01:17:37.174 --> 01:17:39.002 We have, uh, Steve Williams, 1630 01:17:39.045 --> 01:17:42.875 he'’s here to share with you his expertise. 1631 01:17:45.269 --> 01:17:47.967 You guys are gonna have a good time, he'’s a lot of fun. 1632 01:17:48.011 --> 01:17:49.708 The thing about being an artist 1633 01:17:49.752 --> 01:17:51.362 I want you guys to remember is that everytime 1634 01:17:51.405 --> 01:17:55.148 there's plotted out path for you and rules, 1635 01:17:55.192 --> 01:17:56.889 -fuckin'’ break ''‘em, right? 1636 01:17:56.933 --> 01:17:58.717 -Yes! -And remember, 1637 01:17:58.761 --> 01:18:01.459 art is always about questioning established systems. 1638 01:18:03.504 --> 01:18:05.724 To continue to be relevant, 1639 01:18:05.768 --> 01:18:07.900 that'’s what we all want. 1640 01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:10.860 Is to have some kind of body of experience 1641 01:18:10.903 --> 01:18:13.906 that'’s going to educate and inspire other people. 1642 01:18:15.125 --> 01:18:16.779 That'’s the gift of getting older. 1643 01:18:17.954 --> 01:18:20.870 You allow yourself to make mistakes, 1644 01:18:20.913 --> 01:18:22.349 like, really big mistakes. 1645 01:18:23.481 --> 01:18:27.050 Going to the wrong door and finding your way out. 1646 01:18:27.093 --> 01:18:29.443 That'’s where the gold is. 1647 01:18:29.487 --> 01:18:31.663 When you say pioneers, it makes you think of 1648 01:18:31.707 --> 01:18:33.230 a certain spirit of a person 1649 01:18:33.273 --> 01:18:34.753 that'’s willing to go out and risk it all 1650 01:18:34.797 --> 01:18:36.494 and-- and go for it. 1651 01:18:36.537 --> 01:18:38.278 Face whatever dangers they'’re gonna face 1652 01:18:38.322 --> 01:18:41.804 and be willing to try to fail at things and, uh, 1653 01:18:41.847 --> 01:18:44.241 take it to the next level. 1654 01:18:44.937 --> 01:18:46.634 I don'’t know when there'’s going to be 1655 01:18:46.678 --> 01:18:48.985 another breakthrough 1656 01:18:49.028 --> 01:18:53.163 that is as transformative as making the transition 1657 01:18:53.206 --> 01:18:55.905 from old-school effects to digital effects. 1658 01:18:56.601 --> 01:18:59.256 Is new ground being broken today? 1659 01:18:59.299 --> 01:19:01.911 Yeah, but experimentation 1660 01:19:01.954 --> 01:19:05.958 is left to scrappier, upstart maverick people. 1661 01:19:06.002 --> 01:19:08.918 We'’re all believers in our point of view. 1662 01:19:08.961 --> 01:19:10.397 Even though you have a lot of talent 1663 01:19:10.441 --> 01:19:12.530 and you're very passionate 1664 01:19:12.573 --> 01:19:14.837 it'’s still not easy to survive or to succeed in this world. 1665 01:19:21.582 --> 01:19:23.019 In some ways, 1666 01:19:23.715 --> 01:19:26.152 talented people are talented 1667 01:19:26.196 --> 01:19:28.589 because they are able 1668 01:19:28.633 --> 01:19:35.379 to stay in touch with sort of a childish nature in them. 1669 01:19:36.859 --> 01:19:41.646 Your ability to touch pure reactions to things 1670 01:19:41.689 --> 01:19:45.041 are kind of like seeing the world for the first time. 1671 01:19:46.782 --> 01:19:50.655 Anyone who can draw on that kind of 1672 01:19:50.698 --> 01:19:54.398 childish thinking has the opportunity 1673 01:19:54.441 --> 01:19:55.965 for greatness in them. 1674 01:19:56.008 --> 01:19:59.098 ♪ 1675 01:20:01.057 --> 01:20:06.018 ♪