1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:17,365 --> 00:00:19,497 It's a medium, God damn it. 4 00:00:22,805 --> 00:00:24,502 It ain't gonna fit me. 5 00:00:28,376 --> 00:00:29,725 -Look at that. 6 00:00:30,508 --> 00:00:32,423 Oh, it's exactly-- 7 00:00:32,467 --> 00:00:34,382 It's exactly what I have, but it's a medium, 8 00:00:34,425 --> 00:00:36,079 I don't think it's gonna fit. 9 00:00:36,123 --> 00:00:38,212 -You need a large? -Yeah, minimum. 10 00:00:41,128 --> 00:00:43,260 I can't wear a shirt unless it has a stain on it. 11 00:00:43,304 --> 00:00:45,610 If you wear a shirt that doesn't have a stain on it, 12 00:00:45,654 --> 00:00:46,742 it's not a shirt. 13 00:00:49,701 --> 00:00:52,313 One of the biggest problems I have is my memory. 14 00:00:54,706 --> 00:00:56,317 I just wanna forget everything. 15 00:00:58,275 --> 00:00:59,450 Unfortunately, I can't. 16 00:01:01,583 --> 00:01:03,541 -You raised her-- -The past haunts me. 17 00:01:05,848 --> 00:01:08,416 Do these animals deserve the same protections 18 00:01:08,459 --> 00:01:11,288 given to other species? 19 00:01:11,332 --> 00:01:13,508 Or should they just be left to die? 20 00:01:17,729 --> 00:01:19,340 These creatures were here before us. 21 00:01:22,299 --> 00:01:24,649 I guess Netflix is doing the thing on Jurassic. 22 00:01:26,999 --> 00:01:28,349 They want to hear the real story. 23 00:01:29,741 --> 00:01:31,917 Not a revisionist history version. 24 00:01:34,355 --> 00:01:36,096 We're in "C" Theater 25 00:01:36,139 --> 00:01:39,838 at 3210 Kerner Boulevard, San Rafael, California, 26 00:01:39,882 --> 00:01:41,318 the old ILM facility. 27 00:01:42,798 --> 00:01:44,365 In this theater is where we projected 28 00:01:44,408 --> 00:01:46,323 every single one of the shots 29 00:01:46,367 --> 00:01:47,977 that we knew was gonna change the entire film industry. 30 00:01:53,765 --> 00:01:57,160 When the T-Rex took a step, you had a secondary jiggle. 31 00:01:57,204 --> 00:01:59,336 So, I had separate channels of animation 32 00:01:59,380 --> 00:02:01,295 of literally a digital bladder 33 00:02:01,730 --> 00:02:03,514 hung off the hierarchy of the leg, 34 00:02:03,558 --> 00:02:05,386 so it shook on the bone. 35 00:02:05,429 --> 00:02:07,083 So, if the bladder shook, 36 00:02:07,127 --> 00:02:09,607 the outside control vertices shook as well. 37 00:02:09,651 --> 00:02:11,261 So, every time the Rex took a step, 38 00:02:11,305 --> 00:02:13,307 you had to have a massive amount of shake 39 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:15,004 of this muscle. 40 00:02:15,047 --> 00:02:16,527 A lot of people are always referring back to it 41 00:02:16,571 --> 00:02:18,616 being the best of all the Jurassics. 42 00:02:18,660 --> 00:02:19,922 And now, what is it? 43 00:02:19,965 --> 00:02:21,750 World domination of everything-- 44 00:02:21,793 --> 00:02:23,882 I mean the "Giganotosaurus", that's the latest one. 45 00:02:23,926 --> 00:02:25,710 It was like three times the size of the Rex. 46 00:02:25,754 --> 00:02:28,017 "It is? Oh, I better go see the sequel." 47 00:02:28,060 --> 00:02:30,715 Why don't they just merge Star Wars and Jurassic together 48 00:02:30,759 --> 00:02:32,761 and come up with one big mega movie? 49 00:02:32,804 --> 00:02:34,632 You know, it's like dinosaurs in space 50 00:02:34,676 --> 00:02:36,286 and everyone's shooting each other, you know? 51 00:02:42,684 --> 00:02:44,555 I'm naive, I guess, 52 00:02:44,599 --> 00:02:45,948 when it comes to a lot of stuff. 53 00:02:48,472 --> 00:02:50,170 And you get burned, y'know. 54 00:02:52,302 --> 00:02:53,390 You get burned. 55 00:02:57,133 --> 00:02:59,179 Things are so simple now, right? 56 00:03:01,877 --> 00:03:03,400 Looking back at the ILM days, 57 00:03:03,444 --> 00:03:05,359 it's almost like it was a weird dream. 58 00:03:08,710 --> 00:03:11,278 Even though I was using machines as a tool back then, 59 00:03:12,453 --> 00:03:14,281 I myself was stuck in a machine. 60 00:03:16,108 --> 00:03:18,198 And this whole thing about blind curiosity, 61 00:03:18,241 --> 00:03:19,677 trying to, A, prove it yourself, 62 00:03:19,721 --> 00:03:21,375 and B, you know, 63 00:03:21,418 --> 00:03:23,768 prove it to the world, you can do something. 64 00:03:23,812 --> 00:03:24,900 Little did I know... 65 00:03:26,162 --> 00:03:27,555 y'know, I created a monster. 66 00:03:30,601 --> 00:03:32,603 And joining me now in the studio 67 00:03:32,647 --> 00:03:34,779 is the chief animator at Lucasfilm, Steve Williams. 68 00:03:34,823 --> 00:03:37,260 George Lucas' Industrial Light and Magic Company, 69 00:03:37,304 --> 00:03:39,044 the folks who provided special effects 70 00:03:39,088 --> 00:03:40,916 for Star Wars, is going commercial. 71 00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:42,918 These hummingbirds are not real. 72 00:03:42,961 --> 00:03:45,703 Animator Steve Williams sketches out a line drawing 73 00:03:45,747 --> 00:03:47,662 on a computer screen. 74 00:03:47,705 --> 00:03:49,446 It was never Steve's intention to combine 75 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:51,709 his classical animation training with computers, 76 00:03:51,753 --> 00:03:53,842 but now colleagues marvel, 77 00:03:53,885 --> 00:03:56,279 they've never seen anyone create life so realistically. 78 00:03:56,323 --> 00:03:58,325 It was not biotechnology 79 00:03:58,368 --> 00:04:01,241 that brought the dinosaurs to life inJurassic Park. 80 00:04:01,284 --> 00:04:03,025 Animator Steve Williams 81 00:04:03,068 --> 00:04:05,288 used a computer to bring the T-Rex to life. 82 00:04:05,332 --> 00:04:07,290 The Universal Studios picture 83 00:04:07,334 --> 00:04:09,901 could generate as much as $50 million this weekend. 84 00:04:09,945 --> 00:04:11,686 Other studios in town will not open 85 00:04:11,729 --> 00:04:13,514 any of their pictures against it. 86 00:04:13,557 --> 00:04:15,211 Williams is one of the hottest 87 00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:16,778 computer animators in Hollywood. 88 00:04:16,821 --> 00:04:18,432 Spreading his message 89 00:04:18,475 --> 00:04:19,694 that computer animation is about art, 90 00:04:19,737 --> 00:04:21,086 not technology. 91 00:04:24,002 --> 00:04:26,004 I mean, is there anything that worries you about this? 92 00:04:26,048 --> 00:04:27,963 Oh, yeah, I-- I think it's pretty-- 93 00:04:28,006 --> 00:04:29,921 I-- I don't think it's a good thing, but it's-- 94 00:04:29,965 --> 00:04:31,488 Well, so, you're sort of like Dr. Frankenstein. 95 00:04:43,021 --> 00:04:45,894 Everybody thinks that chaos is completely random. 96 00:04:47,504 --> 00:04:49,071 There is no such thing as random. 97 00:04:50,725 --> 00:04:52,596 Every single variable is calculatable. 98 00:04:53,728 --> 00:04:55,947 And math is nothing but a language 99 00:04:55,991 --> 00:04:58,994 to try and describe what nature already knows. 100 00:05:02,302 --> 00:05:03,955 We're so steeped in the rules... 101 00:05:05,522 --> 00:05:08,960 so when you think differently, you're seen as a heretic. 102 00:05:09,004 --> 00:05:14,052 ♪ 103 00:05:22,409 --> 00:05:24,628 I know I was different, you know, I-- I knew it. 104 00:05:25,847 --> 00:05:27,065 I've always been different. 105 00:05:29,024 --> 00:05:32,027 I had visions about how things are gonna be... 106 00:05:33,245 --> 00:05:35,683 and not should be, but just are going to be. 107 00:05:37,641 --> 00:05:39,774 Especially about, you know, synthetic imagery. 108 00:05:40,775 --> 00:05:43,168 Here's a low-resolution data of the T-Rex, 109 00:05:43,212 --> 00:05:44,735 and most of these points here 110 00:05:44,779 --> 00:05:46,607 where each one of the bones were. 111 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:48,130 Jurassic Park storyboards. 112 00:05:48,739 --> 00:05:51,742 "SS approved" means Steven Spielberg approved. 113 00:05:51,786 --> 00:05:53,614 Chase scene four. 114 00:05:53,657 --> 00:05:55,572 75 frames. Took me four months to animate this shot. 115 00:05:57,748 --> 00:06:00,490 Here's somebody that was fundamental 116 00:06:00,534 --> 00:06:03,580 at that time, in-- in, uh, the-- the, 117 00:06:03,624 --> 00:06:07,497 um, progress of this disruptive technology. 118 00:06:08,063 --> 00:06:10,587 But, the way that I know him now, 119 00:06:10,631 --> 00:06:12,328 he mainly likes to blacksmith, 120 00:06:12,372 --> 00:06:13,982 and we end up hanging out in the shop 121 00:06:14,025 --> 00:06:16,506 because he likes to get his hands dirty, 122 00:06:16,550 --> 00:06:17,638 just like I do. 123 00:06:18,508 --> 00:06:19,814 We all called him Spaz. 124 00:06:20,292 --> 00:06:22,469 Now, calling Steve Williams "Spaz," 125 00:06:22,512 --> 00:06:24,645 was, uh, a nickname, 126 00:06:24,688 --> 00:06:27,648 like, that giant guy in high school 127 00:06:27,691 --> 00:06:29,780 that everybody called Tiny. 128 00:06:29,824 --> 00:06:31,782 Hey, Spaz, my, how you doing, buddy? 129 00:06:31,826 --> 00:06:35,177 That character with the pocket protector 130 00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:38,485 and the thick glasses, he was the opposite. 131 00:06:39,486 --> 00:06:42,358 Here was a motorcycle-riding, 132 00:06:42,402 --> 00:06:45,317 leather-jacket-wearing guy, 133 00:06:45,361 --> 00:06:47,189 who's the first one that I ever met, 134 00:06:47,232 --> 00:06:48,320 that was an artist, 135 00:06:48,364 --> 00:06:49,974 who had computer 136 00:06:50,018 --> 00:06:52,412 and high-mathematical skills. 137 00:06:53,369 --> 00:06:57,155 Like Michelangelo took corpses and dissected them, 138 00:06:57,199 --> 00:07:01,203 Spaz is a guy who kind of dissected life a little bit. 139 00:07:01,246 --> 00:07:03,379 I was just amazed by how things worked. 140 00:07:03,988 --> 00:07:05,773 My whole life I was driven by how things work. 141 00:07:06,730 --> 00:07:09,429 Cartoons deviated from the rules 142 00:07:09,472 --> 00:07:11,039 of the way nature operates. 143 00:07:11,605 --> 00:07:13,650 It was sort of questioning convention. 144 00:07:14,303 --> 00:07:16,784 -You're questioning reality. 145 00:07:16,827 --> 00:07:18,612 Good he's got that going for me. 146 00:07:18,655 --> 00:07:20,135 Got that going at me. 147 00:07:20,178 --> 00:07:21,441 Sheridan College in Toronto. 148 00:07:22,180 --> 00:07:23,660 All of us are misfits. 149 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,446 We didn't think conventionally. 150 00:07:26,489 --> 00:07:28,404 We're these, like, these strange artists. 151 00:07:28,970 --> 00:07:31,407 I decided to take classical animation. 152 00:07:31,451 --> 00:07:33,409 Then, I took computer engineering, 153 00:07:33,453 --> 00:07:35,019 University of Toronto. 154 00:07:35,063 --> 00:07:37,326 Then I joined a company in Toronto called Alias, 155 00:07:37,369 --> 00:07:39,676 using computers to do animation. 156 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,504 No one really thought about it that way. 157 00:07:42,113 --> 00:07:43,550 They thought it for data processing, 158 00:07:43,593 --> 00:07:44,681 they didn't really think about it 159 00:07:44,725 --> 00:07:45,900 for actually animating. 160 00:07:46,596 --> 00:07:48,816 I was attempting to try and replicate the real world 161 00:07:48,859 --> 00:07:50,295 in a synthetic environment. 162 00:07:51,122 --> 00:07:53,211 There were very few people in the world that knew Alias, 163 00:07:53,255 --> 00:07:55,910 three-dimensional computer graphics back in 1988. 164 00:07:56,650 --> 00:07:58,652 I was working on a system called the "CIWS," 165 00:07:58,695 --> 00:08:00,828 it was a Gatling gun that, for the most part, 166 00:08:00,871 --> 00:08:02,743 sat on Iowa-class battleships. 167 00:08:03,744 --> 00:08:05,180 The simulation I was working, 168 00:08:05,223 --> 00:08:06,964 had the fluorocarbon cooling system. 169 00:08:07,748 --> 00:08:09,793 ILM, Industrial Light Magic, 170 00:08:09,837 --> 00:08:11,621 got wind that there was somebody 171 00:08:11,665 --> 00:08:13,231 that actually knew something about fluid dynamics. 172 00:08:14,319 --> 00:08:15,973 They're working on a movie 173 00:08:16,017 --> 00:08:18,280 where there's a water creature. 174 00:08:18,323 --> 00:08:20,108 Now, you see water doing things 175 00:08:20,151 --> 00:08:22,502 all the time, but back in the day, 176 00:08:22,545 --> 00:08:24,547 you said, "Well, it's gonna be water that comes alive, 177 00:08:24,591 --> 00:08:26,418 and then the face comes out of the water." 178 00:08:27,245 --> 00:08:28,508 People would just blank out. 179 00:08:29,726 --> 00:08:32,381 It was a big question mark for everybody. 180 00:08:32,424 --> 00:08:34,426 What Jim had seen in computer graphics 181 00:08:34,470 --> 00:08:35,819 up to that point, 182 00:08:35,863 --> 00:08:37,299 was all the other prior films 183 00:08:37,342 --> 00:08:38,909 that had used computer graphics, 184 00:08:38,953 --> 00:08:40,563 like Last Starfighter, and Tron, 185 00:08:40,607 --> 00:08:42,304 and even Young Sherlock Holmes. 186 00:08:43,087 --> 00:08:45,263 CG had an artificiality to it. 187 00:08:46,351 --> 00:08:49,659 We were looking for a photo-real thing. 188 00:08:49,703 --> 00:08:52,096 His previous films, Terminatorand Aliens, 189 00:08:52,140 --> 00:08:54,925 they were about thrills and action. 190 00:08:56,797 --> 00:09:00,278 They were not about just a straight sense of wonder. 191 00:09:01,323 --> 00:09:03,368 He really wanted to show that he could do that. 192 00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:07,459 We clearly needed additional talent 193 00:09:07,503 --> 00:09:10,027 and we found Steve Williams. 194 00:09:11,376 --> 00:09:14,118 The quality was paramount. 195 00:09:14,162 --> 00:09:15,772 If we were gonna be successful, 196 00:09:15,816 --> 00:09:18,079 this stuff had to be not just good enough, 197 00:09:18,122 --> 00:09:20,429 it had to be great, it had to be convincing, 198 00:09:20,472 --> 00:09:22,039 it had to be something 199 00:09:22,083 --> 00:09:25,216 that ultimately no one had ever seen before. 200 00:09:26,696 --> 00:09:28,480 So I ended up at Industrial Light Magic, 201 00:09:28,524 --> 00:09:31,614 and I got hired in October of 1988 202 00:09:31,658 --> 00:09:33,529 to be Chief Animator on The Abyss. 203 00:09:34,878 --> 00:09:36,358 We had two machines, 204 00:09:36,401 --> 00:09:39,187 Silicon Graphics GT60 and a GT80. 205 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,276 The first thing I had to do 206 00:09:41,319 --> 00:09:43,670 was figure out how to animate the spine 207 00:09:43,713 --> 00:09:44,801 of the pseudopod. 208 00:09:45,672 --> 00:09:47,282 "The Water Weenie" was the nickname. 209 00:09:48,239 --> 00:09:49,414 Everyone's looking at us. 210 00:09:50,154 --> 00:09:51,721 If we fail, 211 00:09:51,765 --> 00:09:53,070 it would have been a tremendous setback. 212 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:57,379 I was the first Ph.D. at ILM 213 00:09:57,422 --> 00:09:59,120 in the subject of computer graphics. 214 00:10:00,077 --> 00:10:01,731 We didn't have a lot office space, 215 00:10:01,775 --> 00:10:03,864 but I got put in this thing called "The Pit," 216 00:10:04,995 --> 00:10:06,867 which was downstairs and was a sound room. 217 00:10:06,910 --> 00:10:09,565 And we turned it into this kind of wild, wacky office. 218 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:12,612 Spaz was put down there too. 219 00:10:13,874 --> 00:10:16,485 My first impression, he walks in, 220 00:10:16,528 --> 00:10:19,009 he's got, like, a tight, white t-shirt, 221 00:10:19,053 --> 00:10:20,924 crew cut, Dudley Do-Right chin, 222 00:10:20,968 --> 00:10:22,622 old school jeans rolled up at the bottom, 223 00:10:22,665 --> 00:10:23,797 and wearing engineer boots. 224 00:10:24,449 --> 00:10:27,452 It-- it's, like, a '50s biker thing 225 00:10:27,496 --> 00:10:29,498 or, you know, this kind of strange, 226 00:10:29,541 --> 00:10:31,326 macho Canadian thing or who knows what. 227 00:10:31,369 --> 00:10:33,110 There's this fucking hippie and I'm thinking, 228 00:10:33,154 --> 00:10:34,721 "Ah, God damned fucking hippie, 229 00:10:34,764 --> 00:10:37,462 God damned Californian," you know? 230 00:10:37,506 --> 00:10:38,812 And he's got his feet on the desk 231 00:10:38,855 --> 00:10:40,814 and playing on the stereo 232 00:10:40,857 --> 00:10:43,120 Alice Cooper, "Love it to Death." 233 00:10:43,164 --> 00:10:46,733 That's the first fucking album I ever had and he goes, 234 00:10:46,776 --> 00:10:48,299 "That's the first album I ever had." 235 00:10:48,343 --> 00:10:50,084 And that was it. Game over. 236 00:10:50,693 --> 00:10:52,477 We hit it off right away. 237 00:10:52,521 --> 00:10:54,131 I mean, it's funny, even though we're very different, 238 00:10:54,175 --> 00:10:55,480 we like to have fun. 239 00:10:56,264 --> 00:10:58,527 Have fun, be fun. That was our motto. 240 00:10:59,397 --> 00:11:01,138 We were outsiders, 241 00:11:01,182 --> 00:11:04,098 only because we had this technical animation solution, 242 00:11:04,141 --> 00:11:05,708 but we hadn't really worked on films. 243 00:11:06,622 --> 00:11:08,493 My job, you know, 244 00:11:08,537 --> 00:11:10,234 was to try and figure out the nuance of the animation. 245 00:11:11,453 --> 00:11:13,542 Mark had come up with this code 246 00:11:13,585 --> 00:11:15,762 that allowed us to put little sine wave distributions 247 00:11:15,805 --> 00:11:17,546 over the surface to create a rippling effect. 248 00:11:18,286 --> 00:11:20,288 How to take surfaces and make them undulate 249 00:11:20,331 --> 00:11:21,942 like they're water, even though they're tubes, 250 00:11:21,985 --> 00:11:23,683 that was a big pain in the ass. 251 00:11:24,205 --> 00:11:26,120 We had to just find solutions. 252 00:11:26,729 --> 00:11:29,123 Jim sent us back scans 253 00:11:29,166 --> 00:11:31,038 with the video we had 254 00:11:31,081 --> 00:11:33,649 just drawing on it with a marker, he faxed them. 255 00:11:33,693 --> 00:11:36,260 Ultimately, we were able to accomplish 256 00:11:36,304 --> 00:11:37,914 what Jim was looking for. 257 00:11:38,654 --> 00:11:40,961 Cameron had said, had that scene failed, 258 00:11:41,004 --> 00:11:42,919 he would've just yanked it from the entire film. 259 00:11:43,615 --> 00:11:45,400 But it ended being one of the premiere scenes. 260 00:11:45,879 --> 00:11:47,054 Everybody looked at it and went, 261 00:11:47,097 --> 00:11:48,708 "How in blazes was that done?" 262 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,710 And that's where the deal changed. 263 00:11:53,364 --> 00:11:56,019 I knew darn well this would be the best 264 00:11:56,063 --> 00:11:57,542 that I would ever do. 265 00:11:57,586 --> 00:11:58,630 Ever. 266 00:11:59,893 --> 00:12:01,416 I just knew that there wasn't gonna be 267 00:12:01,459 --> 00:12:03,331 any more creative hurdles, 268 00:12:03,374 --> 00:12:05,725 there wouldn't be anything like what we were doing at ILM. 269 00:12:08,728 --> 00:12:10,904 When you grow up in Canada, it's like... 270 00:12:12,644 --> 00:12:15,299 you grow up with eight colors, okay? 271 00:12:16,431 --> 00:12:19,477 So, you have to learn how to design and draw, 272 00:12:19,521 --> 00:12:20,914 and paint with these eight colors. 273 00:12:20,957 --> 00:12:22,567 When you come to the States, 274 00:12:22,611 --> 00:12:24,308 you're instantly, across the border, 275 00:12:24,352 --> 00:12:25,788 given 20 colors. 276 00:12:32,012 --> 00:12:33,796 It blows your bloody mind. 277 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,799 You can have a '65 Cadillac without any rust on it. 278 00:12:36,843 --> 00:12:39,236 Engines, gas, 279 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,718 bullets, beer, everything, just like that, snap. 280 00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:44,372 Everything's a half an hour away. 281 00:12:44,415 --> 00:12:46,374 It's great. It's like being in Disneyland. 282 00:12:47,592 --> 00:12:50,117 One, one gun, ah, ah, ah, ah. 283 00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:55,644 In America, anybody can do anything. 284 00:12:56,297 --> 00:12:58,734 All you have to do is put in the dedication 285 00:12:58,778 --> 00:13:00,301 and the sweat, 286 00:13:00,344 --> 00:13:01,563 and you can get whatever you fucking want. 287 00:13:02,956 --> 00:13:04,827 That concept didn't exist in Canada. 288 00:13:06,220 --> 00:13:07,699 Growing up in Toronto, 289 00:13:09,397 --> 00:13:11,007 you're growing up in suppression. 290 00:13:12,052 --> 00:13:13,967 You're growing up in bureaucracy. 291 00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:17,144 You are not qualified to do this. 292 00:13:18,493 --> 00:13:19,799 The prime minister at the time 293 00:13:19,842 --> 00:13:21,017 was a guy named Pierre Trudeau. 294 00:13:21,583 --> 00:13:23,063 And Pierre Trudeau said, 295 00:13:23,106 --> 00:13:24,151 "If you don't like it here in Canada, 296 00:13:24,194 --> 00:13:25,630 move somewhere else." 297 00:13:25,674 --> 00:13:27,589 So, I said, "Okay, fine. I'm gonna." 298 00:13:28,111 --> 00:13:29,199 And I did. 299 00:13:31,462 --> 00:13:33,334 So, this is the original mousepad 300 00:13:33,377 --> 00:13:36,424 that I used to build Terminator 2. 301 00:13:37,599 --> 00:13:41,081 I was there so much I ended up wearing out the pad. 302 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:43,648 Pretty funny, eh? 303 00:13:46,173 --> 00:13:48,262 The pseudopod sequence was a validation 304 00:13:48,305 --> 00:13:50,699 that this was a technique that had a lot of promise. 305 00:13:51,874 --> 00:13:54,572 But it took Jim Cameron on his next film, 306 00:13:54,616 --> 00:13:57,227 Terminator 2, to kind of take it to the next step 307 00:13:57,271 --> 00:13:59,229 of what you could do with it. 308 00:14:04,278 --> 00:14:07,716 The Abyss encouraged me to take it a step further, 309 00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:09,022 or many steps further. 310 00:14:09,065 --> 00:14:10,980 He knew to try and push it. 311 00:14:11,024 --> 00:14:13,113 And that was the good thing about Cameron, he pushed it. 312 00:14:13,156 --> 00:14:14,766 He believed in it, 313 00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:16,333 even though he didn't know the technology 314 00:14:16,377 --> 00:14:18,814 or the technique and he let myself and Spaz 315 00:14:18,858 --> 00:14:20,468 and everyone run with it. 316 00:14:23,688 --> 00:14:26,474 Everyone's neck was on the line, including his. 317 00:14:28,084 --> 00:14:30,043 The biggest technical challenge 318 00:14:30,086 --> 00:14:33,176 was building a human in data, it hadn't been done before. 319 00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:36,092 Robert Patrick is the T-1000. 320 00:14:36,136 --> 00:14:37,615 We're gonna study his body, 321 00:14:37,659 --> 00:14:39,269 we're gonna watch his movements, 322 00:14:39,313 --> 00:14:41,576 we're gonna find a way to capture his quality. 323 00:14:42,229 --> 00:14:44,057 There was no motion capture back then. 324 00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:46,146 So, Mark and I thought 325 00:14:46,189 --> 00:14:48,452 "Okay, well, let's do what Muybridge had done." 326 00:14:48,496 --> 00:14:51,586 Put a grid, but not on the background. 327 00:14:52,456 --> 00:14:53,588 Put a grid on the guy. 328 00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:56,417 The day I got cast, 329 00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:59,942 I'm flown to wherever the hell ILM is. 330 00:15:00,769 --> 00:15:04,773 Spaz and Mark start to paint these grids over me... 331 00:15:06,340 --> 00:15:08,908 and I had no idea what the fuck they were doing. 332 00:15:08,951 --> 00:15:11,388 Pardon my language, but, you know, they're animators, 333 00:15:11,432 --> 00:15:13,086 I don't know what they're doing, but they-- 334 00:15:13,129 --> 00:15:14,826 they seem real interested in what I'm doing. 335 00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:17,177 All right, oh, man, oh, man. 336 00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:19,614 -I'm one of the biggest-- -No, no, you're not. 337 00:15:19,657 --> 00:15:21,877 Yes, I am. I could have been a T-1000. 338 00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:24,184 You can only pray to have lines like that. 339 00:15:24,227 --> 00:15:26,012 I think that's the only time 340 00:15:26,055 --> 00:15:27,665 I ever seen you with a smile, Robert, huh? 341 00:15:27,709 --> 00:15:29,972 He's out of character. 342 00:15:30,016 --> 00:15:33,149 Mark and Steve were so inquisitive 343 00:15:33,193 --> 00:15:34,977 about what was I thinking, 344 00:15:35,021 --> 00:15:37,197 where was I getting these ideas? 345 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,894 If you're my target now, 346 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:40,940 my left leg and my hip would drop back, 347 00:15:40,983 --> 00:15:43,246 my hip would lead me, and then the target's there. 348 00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:44,987 Gotcha. 349 00:15:45,031 --> 00:15:45,901 Immediately, it clicked with that. 350 00:15:46,597 --> 00:15:48,556 We had, like, our own theory, 351 00:15:48,599 --> 00:15:51,428 our own T-1000 talk, our own jargon. 352 00:15:52,473 --> 00:15:54,736 And they were kinda close to my age. 353 00:15:54,779 --> 00:15:56,651 And I could tell they were young and eager, 354 00:15:56,694 --> 00:15:59,697 trying to make a name for themselves as well. 355 00:16:02,048 --> 00:16:04,746 We were all pretty passionate. 356 00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:07,183 And I remember thinking, 357 00:16:07,227 --> 00:16:09,098 "T-2 man, it's a whole 'nother level up." 358 00:16:10,447 --> 00:16:12,058 The walk out of the fire, 359 00:16:12,972 --> 00:16:16,279 the first unveiling of the special powers 360 00:16:16,323 --> 00:16:17,977 the T-1000 had. 361 00:16:20,588 --> 00:16:22,416 The first take I did, I went in there 362 00:16:22,459 --> 00:16:24,026 and I could smell my shirt burning. 363 00:16:24,070 --> 00:16:25,897 And I could feel it on the back of my ears. 364 00:16:25,941 --> 00:16:27,508 My ears were getting singed. 365 00:16:28,204 --> 00:16:29,553 The first shot I had to do 366 00:16:29,597 --> 00:16:31,381 was CC1 walking out of the fire. 367 00:16:31,425 --> 00:16:33,296 There was 375 frames long, 368 00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:35,472 fully skin walking T-1000. 369 00:16:36,125 --> 00:16:37,735 I remember shooting that, 370 00:16:37,779 --> 00:16:39,259 and I remember everybody being frustrated. 371 00:16:39,302 --> 00:16:41,261 I remember me being very frustrated, 372 00:16:41,304 --> 00:16:43,002 because I thought I was fucking it up 373 00:16:43,045 --> 00:16:44,960 for everybody. 374 00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:47,049 I think we did like 27 takes or something, I don't know. 375 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:49,530 I do remember that day, 376 00:16:49,573 --> 00:16:52,489 Jim and I sitting somewhere in that canal, 377 00:16:52,533 --> 00:16:53,925 off to the side in the shade. 378 00:16:54,709 --> 00:16:57,016 I think he could sense at how frustrated I was 379 00:16:58,321 --> 00:17:02,195 and he said, "Hey, man, this has never been done. 380 00:17:03,761 --> 00:17:05,198 We're making movie history. 381 00:17:06,982 --> 00:17:08,418 This is history right now." 382 00:17:10,464 --> 00:17:11,900 At ILM, 383 00:17:11,943 --> 00:17:13,119 we shot all this great reference material 384 00:17:13,162 --> 00:17:14,294 of Robert Patrick walking. 385 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,993 I'd come up with a method to actually build the T-1000. 386 00:17:18,472 --> 00:17:19,690 Okay, ready to roll camera? 387 00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:22,302 All right, roll "B" camera. 388 00:17:22,345 --> 00:17:23,433 Action! 389 00:17:24,565 --> 00:17:26,219 I started with a set of bones. 390 00:17:27,089 --> 00:17:31,050 Spaz, he actually animated my skeletal system. 391 00:17:34,096 --> 00:17:36,098 So it operates like any standard puppet, 392 00:17:36,142 --> 00:17:37,752 it's got 30 channels to it 393 00:17:37,795 --> 00:17:39,623 that go from anywhere from controlling 394 00:17:39,667 --> 00:17:41,451 the speed of his legs 395 00:17:41,495 --> 00:17:43,236 to the speed of what his fingers are doing. 396 00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:44,933 This is really the first successful step 397 00:17:44,976 --> 00:17:46,804 to adding real life 398 00:17:46,848 --> 00:17:49,416 to an otherwise inanimate piece of geometry. 399 00:17:49,459 --> 00:17:51,418 We are destined to do that or nothing. 400 00:17:51,461 --> 00:17:53,811 We knew that other people had come so far, 401 00:17:53,855 --> 00:17:55,683 we wanted to go beyond that. 402 00:17:56,945 --> 00:17:58,425 Once that shot happened, that was it. 403 00:17:59,469 --> 00:18:00,557 Everybody knew. 404 00:18:02,429 --> 00:18:03,865 That was a new beginning. 405 00:18:05,649 --> 00:18:06,998 ILM was evolving. 406 00:18:08,391 --> 00:18:12,613 If you're lucky, you will find a place to go 407 00:18:12,656 --> 00:18:15,746 where they will continue to subsidize your insanity. 408 00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:18,488 Stories that wanted to be told ten years ago 409 00:18:18,532 --> 00:18:20,490 couldn't really be told 410 00:18:20,534 --> 00:18:22,449 because there was limitations in the effects industry. 411 00:18:22,492 --> 00:18:24,407 You know, so... 412 00:18:24,451 --> 00:18:26,583 Every time we did something that became better and digital, 413 00:18:26,627 --> 00:18:29,369 more experts moved in, that we'd never seen before. 414 00:18:30,370 --> 00:18:31,675 More managers moved in. 415 00:18:32,633 --> 00:18:34,591 More people to tell you what you were doing wrong, 416 00:18:34,635 --> 00:18:35,723 even though they didn't even understand 417 00:18:35,766 --> 00:18:36,854 what you were doing. 418 00:18:37,551 --> 00:18:39,857 Many folks, particularly in the beginning, 419 00:18:39,901 --> 00:18:42,599 didn't embrace it, nor did they feel, like, 420 00:18:42,643 --> 00:18:45,167 they had the capability to embrace it. 421 00:18:45,863 --> 00:18:47,691 You didn't want to lose your job 422 00:18:47,735 --> 00:18:49,302 to anything that was new. 423 00:18:50,085 --> 00:18:52,435 Right away, we knew, "This is coming." 424 00:18:53,044 --> 00:18:54,785 A lot of people were terrified by it, 425 00:18:54,829 --> 00:18:56,744 "It's gonna put model makers out of work." 426 00:18:56,787 --> 00:18:58,789 It was a live conversation happening all the time 427 00:18:58,833 --> 00:18:59,834 'cause it was a threat. 428 00:19:00,530 --> 00:19:02,184 That's how we saw it. 429 00:19:02,228 --> 00:19:04,839 So not only did they not want to embrace them, 430 00:19:04,882 --> 00:19:06,928 they actually wanted to see them fail, 431 00:19:06,971 --> 00:19:08,147 in my opinion. 432 00:19:09,583 --> 00:19:11,498 But, this was the future. 433 00:19:11,541 --> 00:19:13,282 And I just started buying gear. 434 00:19:13,326 --> 00:19:15,154 Throwing money into digital. 435 00:19:15,763 --> 00:19:17,591 Now, we started hiring. 436 00:19:17,634 --> 00:19:20,811 And we needed to hire people to do Terminator 2. 437 00:19:20,855 --> 00:19:22,465 On The Abyss, 438 00:19:22,509 --> 00:19:24,250 there were probably seven or eight, um, 439 00:19:24,293 --> 00:19:25,947 computer graphics artists. 440 00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:27,514 And by the time we got to Terminator 441 00:19:27,557 --> 00:19:29,994 it had grown to around 15. 442 00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:33,084 We were kind of new to this whole field. 443 00:19:33,128 --> 00:19:35,217 We were inventing it as we went along. 444 00:19:36,131 --> 00:19:38,481 I went into ILM my first day, 445 00:19:38,525 --> 00:19:41,441 and they crack open a binder full of storyboards, 446 00:19:41,484 --> 00:19:43,182 and I'm turning through the pages 447 00:19:43,225 --> 00:19:44,705 and looking at one thing and saying, 448 00:19:44,748 --> 00:19:46,881 "Oh, well, how are we gonna do that?" 449 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:49,362 And they said, "Oh, we don't know yet." 450 00:19:50,101 --> 00:19:52,016 I turn a few more pages and look at something else 451 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:53,583 and, "Oh, how do we do that?" 452 00:19:54,323 --> 00:19:55,803 "We don't know." 453 00:19:55,846 --> 00:19:57,848 And I thought, "You people are crazy." 454 00:19:58,849 --> 00:20:01,069 What I knew was geometry and animation, 455 00:20:01,112 --> 00:20:02,679 and a little bit about lighting. 456 00:20:02,723 --> 00:20:04,290 I didn't know anything about compositing, 457 00:20:04,333 --> 00:20:05,726 I certainly didn't know anything 458 00:20:05,769 --> 00:20:07,336 about traditional special effects. 459 00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:08,685 I wasn't even a big movie buff, really. 460 00:20:09,469 --> 00:20:12,689 I had no training in film whatsoever. 461 00:20:13,299 --> 00:20:14,822 Not a single day of film school. 462 00:20:15,518 --> 00:20:18,478 Every filmmaker who wanted to do something new, 463 00:20:18,521 --> 00:20:19,696 came to ILM. 464 00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:22,264 But, doing traditional effects, 465 00:20:22,308 --> 00:20:24,353 blowing things up in camera, 466 00:20:24,397 --> 00:20:26,225 and then optically printing them 467 00:20:26,268 --> 00:20:28,488 was very much still the norm back then. 468 00:20:29,053 --> 00:20:30,707 As the manager of the company, 469 00:20:30,751 --> 00:20:32,927 what I really needed to do is foster change, 470 00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:35,669 so I needed to take some of the computer graphics people 471 00:20:35,712 --> 00:20:38,585 and put them in with the old school masters. 472 00:20:39,194 --> 00:20:41,501 And I carved out, like, a week of time 473 00:20:41,544 --> 00:20:43,894 of these people to be together in a seminar 474 00:20:43,938 --> 00:20:45,505 so that they could teach each other. 475 00:20:49,683 --> 00:20:53,208 It was like oil and water. 476 00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:55,732 And this is, uh, C-3PO, huh, you know. 477 00:20:56,255 --> 00:20:58,169 The computer graphics people 478 00:20:58,213 --> 00:21:00,955 that were being hired had very little time, 479 00:21:00,998 --> 00:21:03,827 nor interest, in old school technology. 480 00:21:03,871 --> 00:21:06,047 And let's see how his vital signs are. 481 00:21:06,090 --> 00:21:08,005 Well, after all these years he still holds up. 482 00:21:08,049 --> 00:21:09,398 It was like, you know, 483 00:21:09,442 --> 00:21:11,313 your high school students saying, 484 00:21:11,357 --> 00:21:12,880 "Why do I have to study math? I don't need to study. 485 00:21:12,923 --> 00:21:14,534 I have this thing, it's a calculator." 486 00:21:15,622 --> 00:21:18,755 We all loved ILM and we loved George Lucas 487 00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:20,279 and we loved all that stuff 488 00:21:20,322 --> 00:21:21,671 'cause it had an impact on our lives. 489 00:21:21,715 --> 00:21:24,892 But, we weren't, like, mad fanboys. 490 00:21:24,935 --> 00:21:27,547 We believed in kind of the irony of it all, you know? 491 00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:29,810 So, it wasn't, like, to be taken so seriously, 492 00:21:29,853 --> 00:21:32,247 it wasn't, like, uh, uh, 493 00:21:32,291 --> 00:21:34,293 we wanted to deify or worship all these things. 494 00:21:34,336 --> 00:21:36,164 So, we were-- First of all, we were casual about it. 495 00:21:37,339 --> 00:21:39,298 Hello, how are you? 496 00:21:39,341 --> 00:21:41,387 My name's Dobbie, Dobbie Dickwit. 497 00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:43,345 Steve Williams was a combination 498 00:21:43,389 --> 00:21:47,915 of brilliance, naivete, some childishness, 499 00:21:47,958 --> 00:21:50,744 all wrapped into one package. 500 00:21:50,787 --> 00:21:52,485 And I think, uh, 501 00:21:52,528 --> 00:21:55,966 some of that rubbed management the wrong way. 502 00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:57,751 He drove me crazy. 503 00:21:57,794 --> 00:21:59,492 He drove everybody crazy in that marketing department 504 00:21:59,535 --> 00:22:01,407 'cause he did not do what we wanted him to do. 505 00:22:01,972 --> 00:22:04,279 And he almost had, like, a secret glee, 506 00:22:04,323 --> 00:22:06,063 by not doing what we wanted him to do. 507 00:22:07,543 --> 00:22:09,763 If you're gonna have a successful company 508 00:22:09,806 --> 00:22:11,504 with creative people in it, 509 00:22:11,547 --> 00:22:15,769 you gotta give some leeway to these unusual types. 510 00:22:15,812 --> 00:22:19,642 They are young, full of energy, 511 00:22:19,686 --> 00:22:22,950 and some of them are oddballs. 512 00:22:22,993 --> 00:22:25,082 Well, hi there, I am Hickory, I own this farm. 513 00:22:25,126 --> 00:22:26,693 -Nice to meet you. -Ow! 514 00:22:26,736 --> 00:22:29,260 Let go you fucking asshole. 515 00:22:30,827 --> 00:22:32,612 There was a lot of serious work there, 516 00:22:32,655 --> 00:22:34,701 but there was also a lot of nonsense. 517 00:22:34,744 --> 00:22:36,920 And you have to have a lot of nonsense 518 00:22:36,964 --> 00:22:40,097 to actually get creative stuff done. 519 00:22:40,141 --> 00:22:43,100 It's part of the equation. 520 00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:45,973 We would have these parties 521 00:22:46,016 --> 00:22:47,714 called "pit parties." 522 00:22:47,757 --> 00:22:49,498 We hung up fliers all around the company, 523 00:22:49,542 --> 00:22:52,414 it said, "Nailed, an evening of social penetration." 524 00:23:00,727 --> 00:23:02,946 We had two big bowls, 525 00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:04,818 "Mystic Masonic Punch," 526 00:23:04,861 --> 00:23:06,863 and "Our Lady of the Berry Wine." 527 00:23:07,908 --> 00:23:10,301 There are people running around drunk out of their heads. 528 00:23:11,607 --> 00:23:13,479 There's really no guidelines 529 00:23:13,522 --> 00:23:15,263 or no established standards 530 00:23:15,306 --> 00:23:17,091 of how we were supposed to behave 531 00:23:17,134 --> 00:23:19,354 or what we're supposed to do or not do. 532 00:23:19,398 --> 00:23:21,530 So, there were certain drugs were consumed, 533 00:23:21,574 --> 00:23:23,402 and, well, I took some mushrooms 534 00:23:23,445 --> 00:23:25,447 and watched some black and white movie in reverse. 535 00:23:26,274 --> 00:23:27,884 The fact that they were down there 536 00:23:27,928 --> 00:23:29,582 in the pit, they could let off a lot of steam. 537 00:23:30,234 --> 00:23:32,933 Steve would have a hockey stick and he'd be bashing something. 538 00:23:33,803 --> 00:23:35,370 I end up falling off the desk 539 00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:36,850 and falling into a pile of glass. 540 00:23:37,677 --> 00:23:39,069 I didn't have any feeling for a while. 541 00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:41,724 I was suspended twice, 542 00:23:41,768 --> 00:23:43,465 because we fucking destroyed the place. 543 00:23:45,815 --> 00:23:47,513 You needed to allow people 544 00:23:47,556 --> 00:23:50,951 to make mistakes and experiment. 545 00:23:51,821 --> 00:23:54,563 You also needed to allow them to understand 546 00:23:54,607 --> 00:23:55,956 that it was a business. 547 00:23:57,044 --> 00:23:58,872 There was a lot of politics at the time 548 00:23:58,915 --> 00:24:00,874 because it was a high-profile film. 549 00:24:00,917 --> 00:24:02,484 In The Abyss, 550 00:24:02,528 --> 00:24:04,225 you know, there was a small sequence. 551 00:24:04,268 --> 00:24:05,835 James Cameron had basically said, 552 00:24:05,879 --> 00:24:08,403 "If this does not get done on schedule, 553 00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:10,318 I can just cut it out." 554 00:24:10,361 --> 00:24:12,973 Now, for Terminator 2, it was pretty clear 555 00:24:13,016 --> 00:24:16,063 that if computer graphics didn't work out, 556 00:24:16,106 --> 00:24:17,194 that would be a problem. 557 00:24:18,021 --> 00:24:19,806 So, the pressure was on. 558 00:24:19,849 --> 00:24:22,373 Somehow, everybody around us just had to trust us. 559 00:24:23,113 --> 00:24:24,506 If the studio was about to spend 560 00:24:24,550 --> 00:24:26,508 five or six million dollars, 561 00:24:26,552 --> 00:24:29,076 they want somebody that's got some cred, right? 562 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,686 Not us young punks. 563 00:24:30,730 --> 00:24:32,862 For a group of computer graphics people 564 00:24:32,906 --> 00:24:34,647 who are trying to prove themselves, 565 00:24:34,690 --> 00:24:37,258 you had to have a face for that, and that was Dennis. 566 00:24:38,607 --> 00:24:41,567 Dennis Muren looms big over everything. 567 00:24:42,176 --> 00:24:43,612 He is Optimus Prime. 568 00:24:44,395 --> 00:24:45,832 Dennis had all the experience 569 00:24:45,875 --> 00:24:47,834 and such great credentials. 570 00:24:47,877 --> 00:24:49,531 He was the leader of the pack. 571 00:24:49,575 --> 00:24:51,533 He was the guy with the most gold statues, 572 00:24:51,577 --> 00:24:53,317 he was the guy that was still standing in there the longest. 573 00:24:53,361 --> 00:24:55,276 He was the guy. 574 00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:57,452 Computer generated images are a way of coming up 575 00:24:57,496 --> 00:24:58,888 with new effects. 576 00:24:58,932 --> 00:25:00,673 You're starting to see, I think, 577 00:25:00,716 --> 00:25:03,197 a lot of the limits of traditional effects. 578 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,546 So, I've all the time, 579 00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:05,895 been sort of pushing for this stuff to work. 580 00:25:06,635 --> 00:25:08,507 Dennis not only supported 581 00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:11,553 digital technology, but embraced it and pressed it. 582 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,556 He always, I think, is looking big picture 583 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,645 and understands how all the elements fit. 584 00:25:17,341 --> 00:25:19,430 He could look at an image, "It's not working." 585 00:25:19,474 --> 00:25:20,780 He's the kind of guy that could say 586 00:25:20,823 --> 00:25:22,303 what'll make it work. 587 00:25:22,346 --> 00:25:23,783 And that's a big, big talent. 588 00:25:24,958 --> 00:25:26,437 He's one of the best. 589 00:25:26,481 --> 00:25:28,091 That's why he's so well respected 590 00:25:28,135 --> 00:25:29,223 and won so many awards. 591 00:25:30,616 --> 00:25:33,314 He had the vision to see where it could go, 592 00:25:33,357 --> 00:25:37,057 but the specifics of making it go there, 593 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:38,928 as far as the actual doing, 594 00:25:38,972 --> 00:25:40,713 fell, somewhat, to other people. 595 00:25:41,583 --> 00:25:43,454 You know, hierarchies being what they are, 596 00:25:43,498 --> 00:25:47,328 at some point you find yourself now reporting to someone 597 00:25:47,371 --> 00:25:48,808 who knows less than you do 598 00:25:48,851 --> 00:25:51,027 about what it is that you're doing. 599 00:25:51,854 --> 00:25:54,596 Dennis comes from a camera background. 600 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,467 He knows that area really well, 601 00:25:56,511 --> 00:25:59,514 but he was relying, certainly, on us computer geeks 602 00:25:59,558 --> 00:26:01,516 to try and bolt everything together 603 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,735 and get the shots through. 604 00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:06,739 There's no one person who can know or do everything 605 00:26:06,782 --> 00:26:10,569 and, so, you have to rely on people who have expertise. 606 00:26:10,612 --> 00:26:14,007 If you're smart, you get into that organization, 607 00:26:14,050 --> 00:26:17,097 you play by the rules, you make connections, 608 00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:19,882 but you have to have a bit of humility. 609 00:26:20,883 --> 00:26:23,930 The Spaz-Dippé personality style 610 00:26:23,973 --> 00:26:25,279 I don't think fit. 611 00:26:26,367 --> 00:26:28,325 They had more of a punk sensibility. 612 00:26:28,978 --> 00:26:30,371 The way they liked to dress 613 00:26:30,414 --> 00:26:32,242 and the way they liked to do things 614 00:26:32,286 --> 00:26:35,028 was not the norm at ILM. 615 00:26:35,071 --> 00:26:37,421 There were several times when they almost got fired 616 00:26:37,465 --> 00:26:39,859 During the making of Terminator 2 617 00:26:39,902 --> 00:26:41,991 there was a dinner. 618 00:26:42,513 --> 00:26:44,080 And it's at Skywalker Ranch. 619 00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:45,952 The ranch was sort of verboten. 620 00:26:46,517 --> 00:26:49,346 We were sort of, like, the bastard step-children 621 00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:51,610 that lived on Kerner and ate at Foodles. 622 00:26:52,654 --> 00:26:55,178 Mark and I are invited to the ranch. 623 00:26:56,092 --> 00:26:58,617 We ride our motorcycles up Skywalker Ranch. 624 00:26:59,226 --> 00:27:01,402 We park them on the front, like, 25 motorcycles. 625 00:27:02,011 --> 00:27:04,579 This office building is a house. 626 00:27:04,623 --> 00:27:06,886 We went into the executive dining room. 627 00:27:06,929 --> 00:27:09,149 The food's being served. These two guys get bored 628 00:27:09,192 --> 00:27:11,107 and they decide to get up and take a walk. 629 00:27:11,151 --> 00:27:12,848 We're just walkin' around the house. 630 00:27:12,892 --> 00:27:15,329 And then at the very end, there's a little, like, 631 00:27:15,372 --> 00:27:17,113 sunken den. 632 00:27:17,157 --> 00:27:19,942 They found their way to George's private sanctum, 633 00:27:19,986 --> 00:27:22,510 the anteroom to his actual office. 634 00:27:22,553 --> 00:27:24,555 And they walk into the office and they sit down-- 635 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:27,950 Smoking cigars, into George's liquor cabinet, 636 00:27:27,994 --> 00:27:29,822 feet up on the desk. 637 00:27:29,865 --> 00:27:33,173 Now, unbeknownst to us, everything is alarmed. 638 00:27:33,216 --> 00:27:35,001 They have pressure sensitive carpets up there. 639 00:27:35,044 --> 00:27:36,698 And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, 640 00:27:36,742 --> 00:27:39,222 the Skywalker police show up. 641 00:27:39,266 --> 00:27:41,747 Skywalker had their own police and fire department. 642 00:27:41,790 --> 00:27:43,574 "What's going on here? Who are you?" 643 00:27:43,618 --> 00:27:45,576 "What are you doing? You're in George Lucas' office." 644 00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:47,448 They had done the unthinkable! 645 00:27:47,491 --> 00:27:51,408 They had actually gone in and defouled the chambers! 646 00:27:51,452 --> 00:27:53,541 Spaz says, "Well, my name is Scott Ross." 647 00:27:54,194 --> 00:27:56,718 Dippé gave his name as Lincoln Hu, 648 00:27:56,762 --> 00:27:58,807 which caused a certain amount of chagrin 649 00:27:58,851 --> 00:28:00,591 for the real Lincoln Hu. 650 00:28:00,635 --> 00:28:02,376 Lincoln Hu's one of the only other Asian guys 651 00:28:02,419 --> 00:28:03,769 I can think of, even though I'm only half Asian. 652 00:28:03,812 --> 00:28:05,553 And the security guy said, 653 00:28:05,596 --> 00:28:07,555 "We know who Scott Ross is. What's your name?" 654 00:28:07,598 --> 00:28:10,950 And Spaz says, "You got me, my name's Ed Jones." 655 00:28:11,515 --> 00:28:13,517 So, the next morning the call comes in. 656 00:28:13,561 --> 00:28:15,258 "What the hell did you guys do?" 657 00:28:15,302 --> 00:28:16,869 "We didn't do anything, we were screwing around!" 658 00:28:16,912 --> 00:28:18,174 "Well, they think you did something 659 00:28:18,218 --> 00:28:19,785 and you're in deep shit." 660 00:28:19,828 --> 00:28:21,612 I go, "Like what?" "They want you fired." 661 00:28:21,656 --> 00:28:22,701 "What?" 662 00:28:23,223 --> 00:28:24,920 Doug Norby. 663 00:28:24,964 --> 00:28:26,879 Doug Norby was the head of Lucas Film at the time. 664 00:28:26,922 --> 00:28:28,358 My arch nemesis. 665 00:28:28,402 --> 00:28:30,143 He calls me on the phone and he says, 666 00:28:30,186 --> 00:28:33,146 "George is beside himself and I want you to fire 667 00:28:33,189 --> 00:28:35,148 Lincoln Hu and Ed Jones." 668 00:28:35,191 --> 00:28:36,932 I said, "Well, first of all, it wasn't Lincoln Hu 669 00:28:36,976 --> 00:28:38,629 and it wasn't Ed Jones, 670 00:28:38,673 --> 00:28:41,023 it was Steve Williams and it was Mark Dippé." 671 00:28:41,067 --> 00:28:43,112 He says, "George wants them fired." 672 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,419 I said, "I can't fire them." 673 00:28:46,115 --> 00:28:47,551 "Listen, this is what George wants, 674 00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:49,553 -he wants them fired." -Okay. 675 00:28:49,597 --> 00:28:50,903 Let me just put you in the picture. 676 00:28:51,381 --> 00:28:53,470 If I fire these two guys, 677 00:28:53,514 --> 00:28:55,168 Jim Cameron 678 00:28:55,211 --> 00:28:58,693 and the entire Columbia Legal Department 679 00:28:58,737 --> 00:29:01,043 is gonna be in your office tomorrow 680 00:29:01,087 --> 00:29:04,568 because these two guys are what makes Terminator 2. 681 00:29:05,613 --> 00:29:08,834 And if I fire the two of them, the film doesn't get done 682 00:29:08,877 --> 00:29:10,313 and you're gonna be sued. 683 00:29:11,532 --> 00:29:13,099 "Okay, let me get back to you." 684 00:29:13,142 --> 00:29:15,231 -"Thanks, Doug." Click. -Damn it! You know? 685 00:29:15,754 --> 00:29:18,321 So, what they had to do is they had to figure out 686 00:29:18,365 --> 00:29:19,845 how to penalize us. 687 00:29:19,888 --> 00:29:20,802 So, what happened was we had to sit 688 00:29:20,846 --> 00:29:21,934 on a tribunal. 689 00:29:21,977 --> 00:29:23,500 Me and Mark on one side 690 00:29:23,544 --> 00:29:25,764 and all the head brass of Lucas Film. 691 00:29:26,373 --> 00:29:28,505 They're asking us the weirdest fucking questions 692 00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:30,116 in the world, they're going, 693 00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:31,900 "If you're having a party at your house, 694 00:29:31,944 --> 00:29:34,598 and you see that people have gone into your bedroom 695 00:29:34,642 --> 00:29:36,296 during the party, would you be offended?" 696 00:29:36,339 --> 00:29:38,167 I said, "No! Are you kidding me?" 697 00:29:38,211 --> 00:29:39,516 They're-- I said, "At my parties, 698 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:40,822 everyone's in the bedroom!" 699 00:29:41,344 --> 00:29:44,695 This-- We-- we-- we-- This is ridiculous. 700 00:29:44,739 --> 00:29:46,959 Mark and I go, "Look, we'll quit right now." 701 00:29:47,002 --> 00:29:49,570 We said we'll quit. "Oh, no, no, no." 702 00:29:49,613 --> 00:29:51,180 "They can stay, 703 00:29:51,224 --> 00:29:53,704 but they are banned from the ranch. 704 00:29:53,748 --> 00:29:56,577 They are no longer allowed on the ranch." 705 00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:59,841 From that moment on, they were persona non grata 706 00:29:59,885 --> 00:30:01,625 at the ranch. 707 00:30:01,669 --> 00:30:03,976 Lincoln Hu winds up getting a phone call 708 00:30:04,019 --> 00:30:05,847 and it's Doug Norby. 709 00:30:05,891 --> 00:30:08,676 "I know it wasn't you, I know it was the other guys 710 00:30:08,719 --> 00:30:10,765 and I'm really sorry that I used your name, 711 00:30:10,809 --> 00:30:14,290 but I really wanna thank you for the plate of cookies 712 00:30:14,334 --> 00:30:15,683 that you sent me." 713 00:30:15,726 --> 00:30:17,859 And Lincoln says, "Doug, 714 00:30:17,903 --> 00:30:21,167 I wouldn't eat any of those cookies if I was you." 715 00:30:25,171 --> 00:30:27,129 I'm Roger Ebert of theChicago Sun Times. 716 00:30:27,173 --> 00:30:28,914 And I'm Gene Siskel of theChicago Tribune 717 00:30:28,957 --> 00:30:30,829 and our first film isTerminator 2. 718 00:30:32,178 --> 00:30:34,136 Thanks to some truly spectacular 719 00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:35,790 and mystifying special effects, 720 00:30:35,834 --> 00:30:37,357 this is one terrific action picture. 721 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,837 I enjoyed it a lot more than the original. 722 00:30:39,663 --> 00:30:41,013 It hit the press big. 723 00:30:41,578 --> 00:30:43,015 Tons of publicity and stuff. 724 00:30:43,972 --> 00:30:45,104 Accolades. 725 00:30:46,061 --> 00:30:47,889 No one had ever seen anything like it before. 726 00:30:48,977 --> 00:30:51,284 Mark Dippé and I, we were like these superstars. 727 00:30:52,241 --> 00:30:54,200 The press was crazy. 728 00:30:54,243 --> 00:30:56,985 Dennis and I did a Timemagazine article together 729 00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:58,639 and the way it was shown was like, 730 00:30:58,682 --> 00:31:01,033 uh, the sorcerer and his young apprentice. 731 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:04,340 I think Dennis was a supporter of the idea, but... 732 00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:08,562 you know, he's like-- A-- He was worried. 733 00:31:08,605 --> 00:31:10,042 I didn't go into this show 734 00:31:10,085 --> 00:31:11,870 relying on CG to be able to do it. 735 00:31:11,913 --> 00:31:13,610 I had a backup plan. 736 00:31:13,654 --> 00:31:16,352 I was ready at any time to start pulling out the-- 737 00:31:16,396 --> 00:31:19,965 To get the model shop going and getting the foam beam, 738 00:31:20,008 --> 00:31:21,444 you know, whipped up, and castings 739 00:31:21,488 --> 00:31:23,142 and everything like that if we had to 740 00:31:23,185 --> 00:31:25,144 and try, you know, other techniques to do it. 741 00:31:26,101 --> 00:31:28,364 Those guys were working with limitations. 742 00:31:29,148 --> 00:31:30,714 Technical limitations. 743 00:31:31,454 --> 00:31:33,369 When computer graphics came along, 744 00:31:34,066 --> 00:31:35,545 we're really trying to do better 745 00:31:35,589 --> 00:31:36,895 what the guy did before. 746 00:31:38,984 --> 00:31:41,421 Steve really pushed on everyone. 747 00:31:42,117 --> 00:31:43,466 He knew what we could do 748 00:31:43,510 --> 00:31:44,728 and that we could push it further. 749 00:31:45,338 --> 00:31:47,209 Maybe that's where some of the friction came from. 750 00:31:47,818 --> 00:31:49,385 It will be no secret 751 00:31:49,429 --> 00:31:52,867 that Dennis and Spaz's relationship... 752 00:31:56,305 --> 00:32:00,353 was not always the friendliest thing. 753 00:32:00,396 --> 00:32:01,963 Oddly enough, the biggest obstacles 754 00:32:02,007 --> 00:32:04,226 I ran into were the experts at ILM. 755 00:32:04,270 --> 00:32:07,360 They were the obstacles. It wasn't the technology. 756 00:32:07,403 --> 00:32:08,752 They were the obstacles. 757 00:32:09,797 --> 00:32:11,494 He was like having the crazy grandfather 758 00:32:11,538 --> 00:32:13,105 in the room that was in World War II 759 00:32:13,148 --> 00:32:15,324 and is mumbling stories about World War II, 760 00:32:15,368 --> 00:32:17,109 but you're supposed to listen to him 761 00:32:17,152 --> 00:32:18,675 because if you don't, you know, 762 00:32:18,719 --> 00:32:21,504 it's considered politically incorrect. 763 00:32:21,548 --> 00:32:23,550 The big shift in your time, I guess, 764 00:32:23,593 --> 00:32:24,986 was from optical to digital 765 00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:26,640 and, so, you went through, what, 766 00:32:26,683 --> 00:32:28,947 a kind of crisis or a period of learning? 767 00:32:28,990 --> 00:32:30,861 The credit was given to the person 768 00:32:30,905 --> 00:32:32,994 that actually didn't even understand how it was done. 769 00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:34,822 The Abyss just looked amazing 770 00:32:34,865 --> 00:32:36,998 and I thought, "This is gonna work." 771 00:32:37,042 --> 00:32:39,000 And I don't understand it. 772 00:32:39,044 --> 00:32:41,437 This was such a new technology, he wouldn't have had any clue. 773 00:32:47,356 --> 00:32:51,056 I got that big van Dam folly book on CG, 774 00:32:51,099 --> 00:32:54,494 I read that just from front to back over a period of weeks. 775 00:32:59,064 --> 00:33:00,282 After The Abyss, 776 00:33:00,935 --> 00:33:02,719 he got an Oscar for it. 777 00:33:02,763 --> 00:33:04,547 And I'm here for Industrial Light and Magic 778 00:33:04,591 --> 00:33:06,201 and thanks everybody who worked on the show 779 00:33:06,245 --> 00:33:08,160 from up there, John Knoll and, uh, 780 00:33:08,203 --> 00:33:10,249 everyone in the computer graphics department. 781 00:33:10,292 --> 00:33:12,294 And thanks so much, especially to Jim Cameron, 782 00:33:12,338 --> 00:33:13,817 my wife, Zara, and Gregory. 783 00:33:13,861 --> 00:33:15,080 Thank you! 784 00:33:23,566 --> 00:33:26,700 No, I missed that, uh, where-- What's this? 785 00:33:26,743 --> 00:33:28,745 For The Abyss? What-- It looks a little soft. 786 00:33:29,659 --> 00:33:32,793 I think in any environment like that, 787 00:33:32,836 --> 00:33:36,536 you're gonna have some, uh, jealousy. 788 00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,583 Everybody is jockeying for a position. 789 00:33:41,541 --> 00:33:43,195 But I don't think, uh, Steve Williams 790 00:33:43,238 --> 00:33:44,805 was jockeying for anything. 791 00:33:45,458 --> 00:33:47,547 He was not a ladder climber. 792 00:33:48,635 --> 00:33:51,029 He just wanted to have fun and do his art. 793 00:33:52,030 --> 00:33:55,033 He was the one actually hands-on creating. 794 00:33:56,338 --> 00:33:59,037 He would work late nights in the pit. 795 00:33:59,515 --> 00:34:00,995 That's when he would focus the most 796 00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,910 and follow his own instincts. 797 00:34:05,130 --> 00:34:06,957 Politically, you don't see this stuff coming 798 00:34:07,001 --> 00:34:08,698 because you're so engrossed in what you're doing. 799 00:34:10,526 --> 00:34:12,180 There's always been bureaucracy 800 00:34:12,224 --> 00:34:14,095 and red tape and politics 801 00:34:14,139 --> 00:34:17,098 and there were politics at ILM back in the day, too. 802 00:34:17,664 --> 00:34:19,796 You know, there was a big man on campus, 803 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:20,884 bigger than Steve. 804 00:34:21,711 --> 00:34:24,932 Won numerous Oscars. 805 00:34:24,975 --> 00:34:27,239 I'd like to thank my mom and John Berg and Phil Tippett 806 00:34:27,282 --> 00:34:29,067 and Ken and all the camera department. 807 00:34:29,110 --> 00:34:31,112 And thank you very much to Mike McAllister, uh, 808 00:34:31,156 --> 00:34:33,332 Mike Pangrazio, and the math department. 809 00:34:33,375 --> 00:34:35,160 I'd very much like to thank Bruce Nicholson, 810 00:34:35,203 --> 00:34:37,466 Mike McAllister, Mike Owens. 811 00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:39,164 Well, thank you to the Academy, 812 00:34:39,207 --> 00:34:41,122 and Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, 813 00:34:41,166 --> 00:34:43,124 Kathy Kennedy, Frank Marshall, and Robert Watts. 814 00:34:43,168 --> 00:34:44,865 This is a big thrill. 815 00:34:44,908 --> 00:34:46,649 We'd really like to thank the Academy, 816 00:34:46,693 --> 00:34:48,477 Joe Dante for doing his great direction, 817 00:34:48,521 --> 00:34:50,000 Mike Finnell, of course, Steven Spielberg- 818 00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:51,959 His name was gonna be at the top, 819 00:34:52,002 --> 00:34:53,439 regardless of all the people who were working underneath 820 00:34:53,482 --> 00:34:54,614 and there were dozens and dozens, 821 00:34:54,657 --> 00:34:56,311 Steve was just one of 'em. 822 00:34:56,355 --> 00:34:58,661 Secondly, there's the concept of, you know, 823 00:34:58,705 --> 00:35:00,663 there's your story, there's my story, 824 00:35:00,707 --> 00:35:02,100 and there's the story. 825 00:35:02,665 --> 00:35:03,753 I think, you know... 826 00:35:05,146 --> 00:35:08,062 history is written for the victors. 827 00:35:10,412 --> 00:35:12,632 The Oscar goes to Dennis Muren, 828 00:35:12,675 --> 00:35:14,851 Stan Winston, Gene Warren, Jr., 829 00:35:14,895 --> 00:35:16,375 and Robert Skotak. 830 00:35:16,418 --> 00:35:18,246 Terminator 2: Judgement Day. 831 00:35:22,163 --> 00:35:24,470 Thanks to, uh, everyone at Industrial Light and Magic, 832 00:35:24,513 --> 00:35:27,037 and especially my incredible computer graphic team. 833 00:35:27,081 --> 00:35:30,737 To Janet Healy, Mark Dippé, my wife, Zara, Gregory, 834 00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:33,914 and Gwendolyn, and especially Jim Cameron. 835 00:35:44,054 --> 00:35:45,143 He didn't mention me. 836 00:35:47,014 --> 00:35:49,234 I remember I was so mad, I put my fist through a wall. 837 00:36:08,775 --> 00:36:10,298 I never thought about, politically, 838 00:36:10,342 --> 00:36:11,734 how to play this fuckin' chess game. 839 00:36:14,259 --> 00:36:16,348 We were thinking about creating the art, right? 840 00:36:16,391 --> 00:36:17,566 Creating these ideas. 841 00:36:19,046 --> 00:36:20,526 We weren't thinking about, 842 00:36:20,569 --> 00:36:21,701 "What does this mean for my future?" 843 00:36:21,744 --> 00:36:25,792 ♪ 844 00:36:33,626 --> 00:36:35,105 There's always gonna be a bigger fish 845 00:36:35,149 --> 00:36:36,194 who's gonna get the credit. 846 00:36:38,457 --> 00:36:39,936 That's how the game is played. 847 00:36:41,851 --> 00:36:42,939 That's life. 848 00:36:44,767 --> 00:36:46,726 If you wanna stay in the industry, 849 00:36:46,769 --> 00:36:47,857 you gotta play the game. 850 00:36:51,034 --> 00:36:52,297 Steve didn't play that game. 851 00:36:53,733 --> 00:36:55,996 He didn't know how to. He didn't want to. 852 00:36:59,695 --> 00:37:00,914 That's why he stood out. 853 00:37:03,569 --> 00:37:05,658 You learn a lot in an environment like that. 854 00:37:05,701 --> 00:37:07,964 Not just about how to do, 855 00:37:08,008 --> 00:37:11,707 what is, ostensibly, your job, but how it fits with the rest. 856 00:37:14,449 --> 00:37:17,322 Not everybody really fits that environment 857 00:37:17,844 --> 00:37:20,586 and you function within this hierarchy. 858 00:37:21,978 --> 00:37:24,590 This is the sort of through to the bone moment 859 00:37:24,633 --> 00:37:27,549 where you realize, "Yes, the game is changing." 860 00:37:34,295 --> 00:37:37,690 In June of '91, this meeting happened 861 00:37:37,733 --> 00:37:40,345 at a place called Yu Shang across from ILM. 862 00:37:40,997 --> 00:37:42,695 So, Mark Dippé and I are sitting there 863 00:37:42,738 --> 00:37:45,219 and Dennis Muren's there, John Schlag's there, 864 00:37:45,263 --> 00:37:48,570 Mike Natkin is there, Stefen Fangmeier's there. 865 00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:52,008 Muren said Steven Spielberg is coming up with this new film 866 00:37:52,052 --> 00:37:53,532 based on Michael Crighton's book 867 00:37:53,575 --> 00:37:54,881 called Jurassic Park. 868 00:37:55,621 --> 00:37:58,754 It's about a bunch of dinosaurs in a park and it goes awry. 869 00:37:58,798 --> 00:38:00,930 When Jurassicstarted, 870 00:38:00,974 --> 00:38:03,455 there were three different approaches 871 00:38:03,498 --> 00:38:05,979 in companies that were going to handle it. 872 00:38:06,022 --> 00:38:09,678 Stan Winston's group would do the physical creatures, 873 00:38:09,722 --> 00:38:10,897 the close ups. 874 00:38:11,506 --> 00:38:14,335 Phil Tippet's group would do the medium shots 875 00:38:14,379 --> 00:38:16,642 via stop-motion where you could see 876 00:38:16,685 --> 00:38:18,470 all the action of a dinosaur. 877 00:38:19,514 --> 00:38:23,213 And then ILM would do the far away heard shots. 878 00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:25,259 The long shots. 879 00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:26,826 Oh, they're way over there 880 00:38:26,869 --> 00:38:28,567 and they're only this big in the frame 881 00:38:28,610 --> 00:38:30,699 and we can get away with all kinds of cheats. 882 00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:33,354 These are the decisions we made. 883 00:38:33,398 --> 00:38:35,617 Here's where we're going. This is great. 884 00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:43,669 So, Steve Williams, Mark Dippé said, 885 00:38:43,712 --> 00:38:45,061 "Why don't we just build the whole thing 886 00:38:45,105 --> 00:38:46,193 on computer graphics? 887 00:38:46,672 --> 00:38:48,151 Let's just do the whole thing." 888 00:38:52,895 --> 00:38:54,941 Yeah, that's a tough one, um-- 889 00:38:54,984 --> 00:38:56,682 Sure. Yeah, um-- 890 00:38:56,725 --> 00:38:59,162 We're all like, uh, okay? 891 00:38:59,206 --> 00:39:00,816 We're ready for this, we can do this. 892 00:39:00,860 --> 00:39:02,601 -We gotta fuckin' do it. -Oh, no. 893 00:39:02,644 --> 00:39:04,777 No, no, no, no, no. Nope. Nope. 894 00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:07,867 Muren, he's just blank. Like, Orphan Annie eyes. 895 00:39:08,346 --> 00:39:10,870 Fangmeier, he jumped in right away and said no. 896 00:39:10,913 --> 00:39:13,829 We're in the last stretches of completing Terminator 2. 897 00:39:13,873 --> 00:39:17,267 We're working 16-hour days, we're all worn out. 898 00:39:17,311 --> 00:39:19,313 So, I think we were rather cautious. 899 00:39:19,357 --> 00:39:22,751 The amount of work is so large and unknowns, so many. 900 00:39:22,795 --> 00:39:25,406 People were being negative. 901 00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:27,974 Now, look, you've done chrome, 902 00:39:28,017 --> 00:39:29,758 you've done water, 903 00:39:29,802 --> 00:39:31,412 but you've never done anything living, breathing. 904 00:39:31,456 --> 00:39:34,197 The liquid metal, poly alloy Terminator 905 00:39:34,241 --> 00:39:36,635 was simpler than a dinosaur. 906 00:39:36,678 --> 00:39:38,506 We knew we'd never done it before. 907 00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:39,986 Even The Abyss, I'd never done that before, 908 00:39:40,029 --> 00:39:41,727 but I said I could do it. 909 00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:43,032 T2, same thing, I'd never done it before, 910 00:39:43,076 --> 00:39:44,556 but I said I could do it. 911 00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:46,340 Steve Williams and Mark Dippé 912 00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:48,386 knew that the time was right. 913 00:39:48,429 --> 00:39:49,648 They could just see it. 914 00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:53,129 The opportunity was there, they wanted to seize it. 915 00:39:53,173 --> 00:39:56,437 And I think other people was like "Whoa, that's-- 916 00:39:56,481 --> 00:39:58,831 No, we're not going into this whole new realm." 917 00:40:00,659 --> 00:40:04,140 The powers that be were just so concerned. 918 00:40:05,054 --> 00:40:06,969 Phil was definitely a nay-sayer in the beginning. 919 00:40:08,493 --> 00:40:10,320 I kinda felt it was, like... 920 00:40:11,409 --> 00:40:12,453 the Wild West. 921 00:40:13,759 --> 00:40:15,413 These new guys were coming in. 922 00:40:16,109 --> 00:40:18,677 The young gunslingers, you know, 923 00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:22,028 it was like, you know, I can outdraw you. 924 00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:26,554 Phil Tippett, the enfant terrible 925 00:40:26,598 --> 00:40:28,643 of stop motion visual effects. 926 00:40:29,644 --> 00:40:31,080 He'’s the real deal. 927 00:40:31,646 --> 00:40:34,170 Watching Phil Tippett work, 928 00:40:34,214 --> 00:40:36,216 it was real apparent real quick 929 00:40:36,259 --> 00:40:37,913 that he was one of those magic people. 930 00:40:40,133 --> 00:40:41,961 When you have that much talent 931 00:40:42,004 --> 00:40:44,006 and you have that much knowledge 932 00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:46,313 and you have that much work discipline, 933 00:40:46,356 --> 00:40:49,795 it makes you a sort of super, 934 00:40:49,838 --> 00:40:51,144 uber effects geek. 935 00:40:51,927 --> 00:40:53,189 And that was Phil. 936 00:40:54,843 --> 00:40:56,889 Phil Tippett and Dennis Muren both worked 937 00:40:56,932 --> 00:41:00,936 at Cascade at the early parts of their careers. 938 00:41:00,980 --> 00:41:04,462 They worked on Dragon Slayer together in 1981. 939 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,595 They'’d had a long relationship. 940 00:41:08,988 --> 00:41:11,338 Right from the start, Dennis was in the position 941 00:41:11,381 --> 00:41:13,296 of having people that he knew 942 00:41:13,340 --> 00:41:15,603 that he wanted to make sure they were a part of the mix. 943 00:41:17,213 --> 00:41:19,128 Steve knew what we could do, 944 00:41:19,172 --> 00:41:20,390 and that we could push it further. 945 00:41:21,566 --> 00:41:24,569 I perceived just a slight amount of, 946 00:41:24,612 --> 00:41:27,223 you know, competition on their side, 947 00:41:27,267 --> 00:41:29,574 you know, needing to prove themselves. 948 00:41:29,617 --> 00:41:31,271 That'’s why Phil got mad. 949 00:41:31,314 --> 00:41:33,186 Because we were trying to do a stop-motion film 950 00:41:33,229 --> 00:41:34,492 using computer graphics. 951 00:41:35,188 --> 00:41:36,842 He led the camp that 952 00:41:36,885 --> 00:41:38,626 that is the wrong road to go down. 953 00:41:39,975 --> 00:41:41,586 I think from Dennis'’ point of view, 954 00:41:41,629 --> 00:41:42,804 he was worried. 955 00:41:43,762 --> 00:41:45,590 He'’s, like, "“Dude, this is a lot different 956 00:41:45,633 --> 00:41:47,026 than liquid metal."” 957 00:41:47,069 --> 00:41:49,115 And then Phil was like, 958 00:41:49,158 --> 00:41:51,770 "“Computer animation, that'’s the wrong approach."” 959 00:41:52,858 --> 00:41:55,817 The stop-motion footage was the selected solution. 960 00:41:55,861 --> 00:41:58,733 Full-scale animatronics with Stan Winston. 961 00:41:58,777 --> 00:42:00,909 That was the approach that was agreed upon 962 00:42:00,953 --> 00:42:02,520 and that was the road they were going down. 963 00:42:03,129 --> 00:42:04,826 Everything had been assigned. 964 00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:06,524 Stan'’s doing this, Phil'’s doing this, 965 00:42:06,567 --> 00:42:07,612 Stan'’s doing this and that'’s it. 966 00:42:08,090 --> 00:42:09,570 This is the technology we are using. 967 00:42:09,614 --> 00:42:11,354 There is no room for a new technology. 968 00:42:19,537 --> 00:42:21,408 There was something about being told no, 969 00:42:21,451 --> 00:42:25,281 um, you know, if you'’re rebellious, 970 00:42:25,325 --> 00:42:28,981 you know, "no" is actually really, um, a fuel for you. 971 00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:33,115 He took it upon himself to just prove it 972 00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:36,292 and the only way to prove that is to show it. 973 00:42:36,336 --> 00:42:39,121 Steve, Spaz, starts by making a skeleton. 974 00:42:42,255 --> 00:42:44,518 I literally did exactly what I did 975 00:42:44,562 --> 00:42:47,260 with the T-Rex that I did with the T-1000. 976 00:42:48,348 --> 00:42:50,002 I just built the bones. 977 00:42:50,829 --> 00:42:54,136 I built the damn thing, secretly, on my own time. 978 00:42:55,224 --> 00:42:57,009 It was a complete act of rebellion. 979 00:42:58,793 --> 00:43:00,447 I think one of the reasons they tried to stop 980 00:43:00,490 --> 00:43:02,231 that type of innovation is because 981 00:43:02,275 --> 00:43:04,625 the visual effects gurus who didn'’t theorize it, 982 00:43:04,669 --> 00:43:07,323 would be seen as having egg on their face. 983 00:43:08,498 --> 00:43:09,935 I just believed we could do it. 984 00:43:11,414 --> 00:43:12,851 But actually having to prove it, 985 00:43:13,634 --> 00:43:14,853 that was the challenge. 986 00:43:15,593 --> 00:43:16,724 Because it was all about proof. 987 00:43:18,117 --> 00:43:19,771 I remember Dennis Muren, actually, 988 00:43:19,814 --> 00:43:22,121 he had heard a rumor from one of his little 989 00:43:22,164 --> 00:43:23,862 weaselly minions that I was building 990 00:43:23,905 --> 00:43:25,080 a set of T-Rex bones. 991 00:43:25,907 --> 00:43:27,605 He told me, to my face, 992 00:43:29,171 --> 00:43:31,434 "Don'’t bother trying to build the T-Rex." 993 00:43:32,305 --> 00:43:33,523 Phil'’s doing it. 994 00:43:34,873 --> 00:43:36,265 I was saying, "Guys, don'’t do this, 995 00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:38,050 "you know, Phil-- Phil'’s my buddy, 996 00:43:38,093 --> 00:43:39,878 he'’s got the job for everything else, you know? 997 00:43:39,921 --> 00:43:41,749 And just let this play out." 998 00:43:41,793 --> 00:43:43,577 That'’s what he said. That'’s what he said. 999 00:43:43,621 --> 00:43:44,970 And he hadn'’t seen anything yet. 1000 00:43:47,712 --> 00:43:51,629 I don'’t worry about hardly anything, ever. 1001 00:43:54,762 --> 00:43:56,068 Although... 1002 00:43:57,156 --> 00:43:58,984 you know, I'’ve got this anxiety 1003 00:43:59,027 --> 00:44:01,203 that'’s like the sword of Damocles 1004 00:44:01,247 --> 00:44:02,770 that'’s hanging over my head. 1005 00:44:04,729 --> 00:44:06,426 Sometimes, I just feel like 1006 00:44:07,209 --> 00:44:08,515 something terrible''’s gonna happen. 1007 00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:13,607 Steve Williams, uh, 1008 00:44:13,651 --> 00:44:17,219 on his own, put together a Tyrannosaurus skeleton 1009 00:44:17,263 --> 00:44:19,352 and did a walk cycle. 1010 00:44:20,614 --> 00:44:25,880 ♪ 1011 00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:33,801 I don'’t think we fully realized... 1012 00:44:35,368 --> 00:44:36,543 how... 1013 00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:41,026 that was going to change everything. 1014 00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:43,332 It was all secret, no one knew about it. 1015 00:44:44,943 --> 00:44:46,901 There was a big meeting that was going to happen. 1016 00:44:47,772 --> 00:44:49,425 Kathleen Kennedy, 1017 00:44:49,469 --> 00:44:52,385 Frank Marshall, Dennis Muren, and Janet Healy. 1018 00:44:53,255 --> 00:44:55,301 Janet Healy is the producer, 1019 00:44:55,344 --> 00:44:58,260 Dennis Muren is the visual effects supervisor. 1020 00:44:58,304 --> 00:45:01,133 I looked at it as, like, "Oh, this is mom and dad." 1021 00:45:01,176 --> 00:45:02,438 They'’re in charge. 1022 00:45:03,831 --> 00:45:06,312 I didn''’t know when the entourage was gonna come up, 1023 00:45:06,355 --> 00:45:07,879 but I knew they were coming up eventually, 1024 00:45:07,922 --> 00:45:09,924 so I got wind of it. 1025 00:45:09,968 --> 00:45:12,579 Frank and Kathy had come in because Steven couldn'’t come in. 1026 00:45:14,015 --> 00:45:17,062 Kathleen Kennedy was Steven Spielberg'’s producer. 1027 00:45:17,105 --> 00:45:19,238 Kathleen Kennedy, Frank Marshall, 1028 00:45:19,281 --> 00:45:21,762 they were gonna come walking in on a Monday morning 1029 00:45:21,806 --> 00:45:23,808 in November in 1991. 1030 00:45:23,851 --> 00:45:25,505 And I guess the hard part of that 1031 00:45:25,548 --> 00:45:27,159 was he had to find a way to get that 1032 00:45:27,202 --> 00:45:29,465 in front of Kathleen Kennedy. 1033 00:45:30,423 --> 00:45:31,772 And he found a way to do that. 1034 00:45:32,860 --> 00:45:34,819 This was not supposed to happen. 1035 00:45:36,255 --> 00:45:38,474 Dennis and Janet, they didn'’t know it was gonna happen. 1036 00:45:40,172 --> 00:45:41,956 I had a playing on a monitor, 1037 00:45:42,827 --> 00:45:44,654 and everyone came walking in. 1038 00:45:45,830 --> 00:45:47,919 She immediately sees it right away. 1039 00:45:49,050 --> 00:45:50,269 and she goes, "“What'’s this?"” 1040 00:45:51,879 --> 00:45:53,228 I said, "“Well, I was just working on 1041 00:45:53,272 --> 00:45:55,448 this walking T-Rex bone thing."” 1042 00:45:59,234 --> 00:46:01,149 Kathleen Kennedy pats me on the back and goes, 1043 00:46:01,193 --> 00:46:03,238 "“You have a very bright future."” And that was that. 1044 00:46:04,022 --> 00:46:05,980 That'’s the first and only time I ever met her. 1045 00:46:06,415 --> 00:46:08,069 I never-- never saw her again. 1046 00:46:09,114 --> 00:46:10,985 That'’s where everything changed. 1047 00:46:11,029 --> 00:46:13,814 Dennis Muren said, "Okay, this is really interesting. 1048 00:46:13,858 --> 00:46:15,642 I didn'’t know how close we could get. 1049 00:46:15,685 --> 00:46:17,905 And then eventually some of the guys did some tests 1050 00:46:17,949 --> 00:46:19,994 on a T-Rex which came out really great 1051 00:46:20,038 --> 00:46:23,258 and surprised everybody and then we skinned that. 1052 00:46:23,302 --> 00:46:25,434 All we had at this time was a skeleton and we were going, 1053 00:46:25,478 --> 00:46:27,219 -"We can do it!" -Stan Winston is gonna set up 1054 00:46:27,262 --> 00:46:29,525 a five-foot model. Mark and I cut it up into bits 1055 00:46:30,135 --> 00:46:33,747 and we put it in a cyborg scanner and scan all the pieces. 1056 00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:35,575 I have to reconstruct 1057 00:46:35,618 --> 00:46:37,838 all the data to have the proper contour muscles. 1058 00:46:38,491 --> 00:46:41,146 I built the skin version of the T-Rex. 1059 00:46:41,624 --> 00:46:42,974 It was all working. 1060 00:46:43,409 --> 00:46:45,715 ILM, you know, largely through Steve Williams, 1061 00:46:45,759 --> 00:46:48,196 Mark Dippé, and, uh, Stefen Fangmeier 1062 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,459 put together the first dinosaur tests. 1063 00:46:50,503 --> 00:46:52,287 The film couldn'’t have happened without them. 1064 00:46:52,331 --> 00:46:53,811 It certainly couldn'’t have happened 1065 00:46:53,854 --> 00:46:55,725 without Steve'’s ability to model, 1066 00:46:55,769 --> 00:46:57,162 uh, first the Terminator and then later the dinosaurs. 1067 00:46:57,205 --> 00:46:58,641 The film, at the same time, 1068 00:46:58,685 --> 00:47:00,339 also was very much still on track 1069 00:47:00,382 --> 00:47:02,167 to do, uh, stop-motion. 1070 00:47:02,907 --> 00:47:05,083 Back then, everything that we did 1071 00:47:05,126 --> 00:47:06,519 hadn'’t been done before. 1072 00:47:06,562 --> 00:47:07,694 I mean, certainly, nobody attempted 1073 00:47:07,737 --> 00:47:09,522 to do dinosaurs before. 1074 00:47:09,565 --> 00:47:14,179 They made a convincing computer graphic Tyrannosaurus. 1075 00:47:15,267 --> 00:47:17,356 The first fully skinned version. 1076 00:47:17,878 --> 00:47:19,749 And we had it walkin'’. In daylight. 1077 00:47:20,489 --> 00:47:23,449 Then Dennis and Janet with Tippett went down 1078 00:47:23,492 --> 00:47:25,843 to Universal to show it to Steven Spielberg, 1079 00:47:26,626 --> 00:47:27,888 but I wasn'’t allowed to be there. 1080 00:47:28,802 --> 00:47:30,586 I got a call from Dennis Muren at ILM, 1081 00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:32,284 who already had the job 1082 00:47:32,327 --> 00:47:33,807 of doing Jurassic Park with Phil Tippett. 1083 00:47:33,851 --> 00:47:35,504 And Dennis said that he thought 1084 00:47:35,548 --> 00:47:38,551 that he could pull off a full-sized dinosaur 1085 00:47:38,594 --> 00:47:40,858 that would be authentic to the eye. 1086 00:47:40,901 --> 00:47:42,903 Spielberg suddenly went absolutely insane 1087 00:47:42,947 --> 00:47:45,297 and said everything was gonna be computer graphics now. 1088 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,081 That'’s the future. 1089 00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:50,737 That'’s the way it'’s gonna be from now on. 1090 00:48:14,804 --> 00:48:17,590 That first shot of the Brachiosaurus... 1091 00:48:19,244 --> 00:48:21,681 my jaw dropped, I had literally-- 1092 00:48:27,774 --> 00:48:29,689 And then that wide reveal 1093 00:48:29,732 --> 00:48:31,560 of them all out there on the plain. 1094 00:48:31,604 --> 00:48:33,649 ♪ 1095 00:48:37,305 --> 00:48:39,481 That'’s still the one that gets my heart. 1096 00:48:43,746 --> 00:48:45,661 I swear to God, it looked like 1097 00:48:45,705 --> 00:48:47,620 National Geographic went back in a time machine 1098 00:48:47,663 --> 00:48:49,665 and shot real dinosaurs, and that'’s what I fucking saw. 1099 00:48:49,709 --> 00:48:53,582 Those things looked real and what they were representing 1100 00:48:53,626 --> 00:48:55,541 was not some sci-fi thing. 1101 00:48:56,846 --> 00:48:58,892 As far as we know, those things moved around 1102 00:48:58,936 --> 00:49:00,459 like that and that'’s what they looked like, 1103 00:49:00,502 --> 00:49:02,809 that'’s what they did. 1104 00:49:02,852 --> 00:49:05,203 Jurassic Park took everybody by surprise. 1105 00:49:05,246 --> 00:49:06,726 Nobody saw that one coming. 1106 00:49:07,814 --> 00:49:10,773 For almost 75 years, the technology 1107 00:49:10,817 --> 00:49:14,168 and the techniques were pretty much the same. 1108 00:49:14,212 --> 00:49:17,258 Jurassic, that'’s when the computers came in. 1109 00:49:20,348 --> 00:49:22,481 That'’s when the tsunami hit. 1110 00:49:24,048 --> 00:49:26,006 Jurassic Park opened tonight 1111 00:49:26,050 --> 00:49:29,009 with predictions that it may be the biggest hit in years and, 1112 00:49:29,053 --> 00:49:30,663 like any great event, 1113 00:49:30,706 --> 00:49:32,447 people are camped out to be part of it. 1114 00:49:32,491 --> 00:49:34,232 We got here about 11 o'’clock this morning. 1115 00:49:34,275 --> 00:49:35,755 11:00 this morning for what show? 1116 00:49:35,798 --> 00:49:38,018 Uh, the 10:45 tomorrow morning. 1117 00:49:38,062 --> 00:49:42,022 That was the turning point of visual filmmaking. 1118 00:49:42,066 --> 00:49:43,893 People, especially kids, 1119 00:49:43,937 --> 00:49:46,026 - like dinosaurs. -Jurassic Park! 1120 00:49:46,070 --> 00:49:47,854 Where the giant dinosaurs live again! 1121 00:49:47,897 --> 00:49:49,464 With all the excitement 1122 00:49:49,508 --> 00:49:51,162 -of the movie! -Dino damage! 1123 00:49:51,205 --> 00:49:52,685 Only at Jurassic Park! 1124 00:49:53,947 --> 00:49:56,602 The film was supposed to be a stop-motion film. 1125 00:49:57,646 --> 00:49:59,344 Computer graphics came in 1126 00:49:59,387 --> 00:50:01,476 and completely deposed all of it. 1127 00:50:02,956 --> 00:50:05,132 It destroyed one thing, but it begat another. 1128 00:50:06,481 --> 00:50:08,701 I had come up with this test that-- 1129 00:50:08,744 --> 00:50:11,138 It seemed it revolutionized everything. 1130 00:50:11,182 --> 00:50:13,836 The call came down-- Dennis called me at home 1131 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,796 and said, "I'’m afraid I have some bad news. 1132 00:50:16,839 --> 00:50:20,017 Steven'’s decided to do the whole show CG 1133 00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:22,236 and I-- You know, like the Bombay doors just, 1134 00:50:25,544 --> 00:50:27,111 You know, I saw, you know, like, 1135 00:50:27,154 --> 00:50:29,026 the-- the end and I-- "Oh, shit, 1136 00:50:29,069 --> 00:50:30,723 now what am I gonna do? 1137 00:50:30,766 --> 00:50:32,594 I thought, because I was animation supervisor 1138 00:50:32,638 --> 00:50:36,337 on, um, Terminator 2, which is very successful, 1139 00:50:36,381 --> 00:50:37,904 you know, I was gonna be 1140 00:50:37,947 --> 00:50:38,818 animation supervisor on Jurassic. 1141 00:50:40,472 --> 00:50:42,648 I literally ambushed them with the image. 1142 00:50:42,691 --> 00:50:44,563 I thought, "How much more can I do 1143 00:50:44,606 --> 00:50:46,608 to actually to prove that I came up with the idea?" 1144 00:50:47,522 --> 00:50:49,872 I thought for sure it was a slam dunk. 1145 00:50:51,309 --> 00:50:52,919 There was no definition 1146 00:50:52,962 --> 00:50:54,964 about what the jobs were on Jurassic Park. 1147 00:50:55,791 --> 00:50:57,532 So, I asked Janet Healy, 1148 00:50:57,576 --> 00:50:58,881 I said, "“Well, you know, what'’s goin' on? 1149 00:50:58,925 --> 00:51:00,666 What'’s my position?"” 1150 00:51:00,709 --> 00:51:02,537 "“You'’re just an animator on the film."” 1151 00:51:02,581 --> 00:51:05,497 "“What? Who'’s the animation supervisor?"” 1152 00:51:08,891 --> 00:51:10,589 Dennis, in all of his brilliance, 1153 00:51:11,633 --> 00:51:13,679 he has a plan B. 1154 00:51:23,210 --> 00:51:24,690 Phil Tippett wanted to actually 1155 00:51:24,733 --> 00:51:26,822 do storyboards three dimensionally 1156 00:51:26,866 --> 00:51:30,174 with little figures of dinosaurs and people 1157 00:51:30,217 --> 00:51:33,002 that would completely imitate my storyboards, 1158 00:51:33,046 --> 00:51:36,310 but flesh out my storyboards and give them dimension. 1159 00:51:36,354 --> 00:51:38,138 Storyboards don'’t show you 1160 00:51:38,182 --> 00:51:40,749 any of the-- the temporal cadence, the sequence, 1161 00:51:40,793 --> 00:51:44,318 the timing of it and, uh, the animatics allowed us 1162 00:51:44,362 --> 00:51:48,017 to-- to block out the entire, you know, sequence. 1163 00:51:49,715 --> 00:51:52,544 Phil was able to turn himself 1164 00:51:52,587 --> 00:51:54,502 into the director of the CGI dinosaurs. 1165 00:51:54,546 --> 00:51:57,940 He knew so much about dinosaurs and the behavior of animals. 1166 00:51:57,984 --> 00:51:59,899 I go into dailies at 8:00 AM 1167 00:51:59,942 --> 00:52:02,815 and there'’s Phil Tippett, who'’s now functioning 1168 00:52:02,858 --> 00:52:05,339 as the animation director for Jurassic Park. 1169 00:52:09,082 --> 00:52:12,781 Wow! And the Oscar goes to... 1170 00:52:12,825 --> 00:52:15,436 Dennis Muren, Stan Winston, Phil Tippett, 1171 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,222 and Michael Lantieri for Jurassic Park ! 1172 00:52:18,265 --> 00:52:19,745 ♪ 1173 00:52:33,367 --> 00:52:35,152 Thanks, ILM. Thanks, Tippet Studios. 1174 00:52:35,195 --> 00:52:37,328 Thanks, Steven Spielberg. Thanks Mike-- 1175 00:52:54,345 --> 00:52:56,564 I'’ve always believed the people 1176 00:52:56,608 --> 00:52:59,437 that worked on the work should be acknowledged for it. 1177 00:53:01,265 --> 00:53:04,746 Any time an individual took an award 1178 00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:07,793 and took the award home and took the accolades for it, 1179 00:53:07,836 --> 00:53:09,447 to me, it was theft. 1180 00:53:11,405 --> 00:53:13,538 ILM had won 14 Oscars at that time. 1181 00:53:15,757 --> 00:53:17,629 Not one of ''‘em were at ILM. 1182 00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:20,675 Not one! 1183 00:53:22,242 --> 00:53:24,201 So, these guys had the audacity 1184 00:53:24,244 --> 00:53:27,029 to actually take this piece of shit home with them 1185 00:53:27,073 --> 00:53:29,989 when it was representing 30 or 40 people. 1186 00:53:31,817 --> 00:53:33,297 Regardless of what they do... 1187 00:53:34,298 --> 00:53:36,735 this is what their credit is on the film. 1188 00:53:36,778 --> 00:53:38,215 And if it wins an Oscar 1189 00:53:38,258 --> 00:53:39,520 for visual effects, they get it. 1190 00:53:42,088 --> 00:53:43,350 That'’s the way it works. 1191 00:53:44,656 --> 00:53:46,223 If you point to any one person 1192 00:53:46,266 --> 00:53:48,050 it couldn'’t have been done without 'em, 1193 00:53:48,094 --> 00:53:49,878 it probably is Steve, ''‘cause I don'’t know 1194 00:53:49,922 --> 00:53:51,706 that anybody else could'’ve modeled those dinosaurs, 1195 00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:53,230 I don'’t know that anybody else could'’ve set 1196 00:53:53,273 --> 00:53:54,535 the standards for animating them. 1197 00:53:54,579 --> 00:53:55,754 I don'’t know that we would'’ve even tried. 1198 00:53:59,845 --> 00:54:00,933 I'’m not a diplomat. 1199 00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:03,718 I never have been. 1200 00:54:05,416 --> 00:54:07,766 To a fault, I'’ve been a very bad diplomat. 1201 00:54:10,116 --> 00:54:12,292 I'’m not political, I'’m not political, 1202 00:54:12,336 --> 00:54:14,294 I've-- I'’ve never been political. 1203 00:54:14,338 --> 00:54:16,122 Right? I'’m not good at it. 1204 00:54:16,165 --> 00:54:17,471 You know, I-- Look at me, for fuck'’s sakes, 1205 00:54:17,515 --> 00:54:18,820 man, I look like fuckin'’ Popeye. 1206 00:54:18,864 --> 00:54:20,518 You know? Fuck. 1207 00:54:20,561 --> 00:54:22,563 After Jurassic, I did a bunch of interviews 1208 00:54:22,607 --> 00:54:24,696 and stuff like that and I told the truth about what happened. 1209 00:54:24,739 --> 00:54:26,611 The entire film ofJurassic was-- 1210 00:54:26,654 --> 00:54:27,786 This is Jurassic Park? 1211 00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:28,961 Right. 1212 00:54:37,491 --> 00:54:39,058 I was told not to do it 1213 00:54:39,101 --> 00:54:40,842 by my supervisors and I did it, you know? 1214 00:54:40,886 --> 00:54:42,366 I built it. 1215 00:54:42,931 --> 00:54:44,585 Dennis Muren got mad at me a few times. 1216 00:54:45,282 --> 00:54:48,372 He pulled me into his office and he said, 1217 00:54:48,415 --> 00:54:50,243 "I don'’t know why you'’re saying all this." 1218 00:54:50,287 --> 00:54:52,201 And then I said, "Well, Dennis, this is what happened." 1219 00:54:52,245 --> 00:54:55,030 And he goes, "You'’re committing political suicide." 1220 00:54:55,074 --> 00:54:56,684 That'’s what he told me. 1221 00:54:56,728 --> 00:54:58,686 Steve Williams foresees the day 1222 00:54:58,730 --> 00:55:01,341 when it will be commonplace for computer generated actors 1223 00:55:01,385 --> 00:55:04,257 to star alongside real actors. 1224 00:55:04,301 --> 00:55:06,215 I think that you'’ll have characters acting 1225 00:55:06,259 --> 00:55:09,436 with current famous people, um, that are computer generated, 1226 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,264 but you'’ll also be able to introduce characters 1227 00:55:11,308 --> 00:55:14,006 that have been dead for 50 or 60 years. 1228 00:55:14,049 --> 00:55:15,877 In the future, I mean, it'’s quite obvious what'’ll happen. 1229 00:55:15,921 --> 00:55:18,489 It will actually scan the actor in a polygonal data set 1230 00:55:18,532 --> 00:55:19,794 of computer generated data-- 1231 00:55:19,838 --> 00:55:21,840 Are they worried about this? 1232 00:55:21,883 --> 00:55:23,624 -If I was an actor I'’d, uh-- -Actually, SAG, 1233 00:55:23,668 --> 00:55:25,322 the Screen Actors Guild, is very interested in it. 1234 00:55:25,365 --> 00:55:27,193 Are actors right to have concerns 1235 00:55:27,236 --> 00:55:28,629 that they'’ll eventually be phased out all together? 1236 00:55:28,673 --> 00:55:30,805 This will be abused and-- and-- 1237 00:55:30,849 --> 00:55:32,633 and the trick is for all of us to stand up 1238 00:55:32,677 --> 00:55:34,331 and say, "No, that'’s wrong, 1239 00:55:34,374 --> 00:55:35,767 This is a violation, 1240 00:55:35,810 --> 00:55:37,595 this is not what we should be doing. 1241 00:55:37,638 --> 00:55:39,727 Synthetic actors are inevitable, there'’s no doubt. 1242 00:55:39,771 --> 00:55:41,425 We'’re talking about the morals! 1243 00:55:41,468 --> 00:55:42,948 This is unfortunately what'’s happening. 1244 00:55:42,991 --> 00:55:44,993 To be human is to bleed, 1245 00:55:45,037 --> 00:55:46,995 is to have a soul, is to breathe. 1246 00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:48,954 See-- see, we'’re not trying to duplicate human beings, 1247 00:55:48,997 --> 00:55:51,173 but what you'’re seeing is subjective already. 1248 00:55:51,217 --> 00:55:52,914 How many times have you met an actor 1249 00:55:52,958 --> 00:55:54,916 who'’s either shorter or smaller in person? 1250 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,875 So, what you'’re seeing is already an "interpretation" 1251 00:55:56,918 --> 00:55:59,094 -of what they look like. -Absolutely. 1252 00:55:59,138 --> 00:56:01,140 -This is what we'’re trying-- -We'’re down 1253 00:56:01,183 --> 00:56:02,750 -to our last two minutes. -Good afternoon, 1254 00:56:02,794 --> 00:56:04,273 my name is Thomas White, I handle Artists' Rights 1255 00:56:04,317 --> 00:56:05,884 Enforcement Matters for the estate 1256 00:56:05,927 --> 00:56:07,320 of Fred Astaire, the estate of Orson Welles, 1257 00:56:07,364 --> 00:56:08,800 and the director, Stanley Kramer. 1258 00:56:08,843 --> 00:56:10,671 All uses from my clients get licensed. 1259 00:56:10,715 --> 00:56:12,412 If they don'’t get licensed, they get prosecuted. 1260 00:56:12,456 --> 00:56:13,979 -It'’s that simple. -Good. 1261 00:56:14,022 --> 00:56:16,416 And the damages-- the damages that we seek 1262 00:56:16,460 --> 00:56:18,897 and the attorney's fees are extraordinarily high. 1263 00:56:18,940 --> 00:56:21,334 Thank you all very much and I think we'’re done. 1264 00:56:23,423 --> 00:56:25,469 They all denied what we were doing. 1265 00:56:26,121 --> 00:56:28,167 And, to me, that'’s a fight. 1266 00:56:29,342 --> 00:56:31,039 You wanna fuckin'’ get in a fight, man? 1267 00:56:31,083 --> 00:56:32,563 You wanna fuckin'’ drop the gloves? 1268 00:56:32,606 --> 00:56:34,303 You wanna go? Let'’s go. 1269 00:56:38,917 --> 00:56:40,788 When it comes to special effects 1270 00:56:40,832 --> 00:56:43,008 in the movies today, the question really isn'’t 1271 00:56:43,051 --> 00:56:46,925 what can they do, the question is what can'’t they do? 1272 00:56:46,968 --> 00:56:49,362 For the most part, I like having fun and having a good laugh. 1273 00:56:49,406 --> 00:56:51,146 Cartoons are what got me into this thing. 1274 00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:53,279 Animation supervisor Steve Williams, 1275 00:56:53,322 --> 00:56:55,716 whose credits include The Abyss and Jurassic Park 1276 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,240 has been a cartoon buff all his life. 1277 00:56:58,284 --> 00:57:02,114 After Jurassic, I just didn'’t give a crap. 1278 00:57:02,157 --> 00:57:03,724 Everybody can go fuck themselves. 1279 00:57:04,943 --> 00:57:07,075 These are the fuckin'’ good days, man. 1280 00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:10,949 He was uncontrollable. 1281 00:57:10,992 --> 00:57:15,954 This masculine, tough guy that could not be harnessed. 1282 00:57:16,563 --> 00:57:19,131 That was kinda my first experience working with him. 1283 00:57:19,784 --> 00:57:22,134 When you are in Steve'’s orbit, 1284 00:57:22,961 --> 00:57:26,443 it was like you were in the spotlight with him. 1285 00:57:27,792 --> 00:57:30,751 You knew if you were gonna be in his company 1286 00:57:30,795 --> 00:57:33,928 that you were gonna feel like the queen of the world. 1287 00:57:35,495 --> 00:57:37,628 We grew to fall in love with each other. 1288 00:57:38,977 --> 00:57:42,459 We started a relationship that was very intense. 1289 00:57:43,024 --> 00:57:46,767 We wanted to start a family and I moved up to Marin 1290 00:57:46,811 --> 00:57:49,509 from the city and it was like boom, boom, boom. 1291 00:57:49,553 --> 00:57:51,468 I'’m starting the clock. It'’s supposed to be-- 1292 00:57:51,511 --> 00:57:53,078 I'’m totally shaking. 1293 00:57:53,121 --> 00:57:54,645 It's supposed to be two minutes. 1294 00:57:54,688 --> 00:57:55,776 Okay, I just peed on that thing. 1295 00:57:55,820 --> 00:57:57,343 It'’s fucking pink! 1296 00:57:57,386 --> 00:57:58,910 I know, I don'’t believe it! 1297 00:57:58,953 --> 00:58:00,085 I think you did it. 1298 00:58:00,128 --> 00:58:01,695 You big stud! 1299 00:58:01,739 --> 00:58:03,480 You big stud! You did it! 1300 00:58:03,523 --> 00:58:05,046 We never got married. 1301 00:58:05,090 --> 00:58:07,005 We'’re gonna be like hippies, man. 1302 00:58:07,048 --> 00:58:09,094 Not get married and have a kid, and it was great, you know? 1303 00:58:11,879 --> 00:58:13,925 Hannah came along and that was a new world, 1304 00:58:13,968 --> 00:58:15,187 that'’s for sure. 1305 00:58:16,971 --> 00:58:19,278 You think you know it all, but this door gets opened. 1306 00:58:20,584 --> 00:58:21,628 Fatherhood. 1307 00:58:22,499 --> 00:58:24,762 What do you got, Hannah? Tell me about your new car. 1308 00:58:24,805 --> 00:58:26,633 Um, I don'’t want to. 1309 00:58:26,677 --> 00:58:28,505 Okay, are you gonna take it for a drive now? 1310 00:58:34,598 --> 00:58:36,469 It'’s really easy to hold on 1311 00:58:36,513 --> 00:58:39,559 to those perfect experiences 1312 00:58:39,603 --> 00:58:41,082 or a perfect time in your life 1313 00:58:41,126 --> 00:58:42,954 or when "“everything was better." 1314 00:58:44,999 --> 00:58:47,045 The movie making world changed. 1315 00:58:48,437 --> 00:58:50,352 He was right there, you know? 1316 00:58:50,396 --> 00:58:52,529 He was on the frontlines of doing that. 1317 00:58:52,572 --> 00:58:55,532 Dippé and me in a meat locker! 1318 00:58:55,575 --> 00:58:56,968 "The revolution is them." 1319 00:58:59,492 --> 00:59:01,538 Jurassicopened the doors for all movies, 1320 00:59:02,016 --> 00:59:03,583 so it transformed filmmaking. 1321 00:59:03,627 --> 00:59:06,194 Everybody wanted digital. 1322 00:59:06,238 --> 00:59:08,545 Computer graphics was the hot, new thing. 1323 00:59:12,157 --> 00:59:13,332 After Jurassic Park, 1324 00:59:14,028 --> 00:59:15,552 filmmaking went off the rails. 1325 00:59:15,595 --> 00:59:17,292 Computers allowed them to-- 1326 00:59:17,945 --> 00:59:20,513 to make these spectacles. 1327 00:59:20,557 --> 00:59:23,516 Producers are always looking for the magic ticket, 1328 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,258 the secret button, and they suddenly said 1329 00:59:26,301 --> 00:59:28,347 if it'’s got digital effects, 1330 00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:30,436 that'’s the button you press that makes a gazillion bucks. 1331 00:59:30,479 --> 00:59:32,656 They think the more of this little thing 1332 00:59:32,699 --> 00:59:35,310 that'’s great, you know, and by increasing it 1333 00:59:35,354 --> 00:59:37,312 in these films, it'’s gonna make the film better, 1334 00:59:37,356 --> 00:59:38,749 and it hasn'’t, it's actually destroyed filmmaking. 1335 00:59:38,792 --> 00:59:40,446 More junk, more junk, more junk, 1336 00:59:40,489 --> 00:59:42,187 faster, more junk, more junk-- 1337 00:59:46,104 --> 00:59:50,108 A successful movie is built on a triangle. 1338 00:59:50,151 --> 00:59:53,198 You have art, on another point you have technology, 1339 00:59:53,241 --> 00:59:55,461 and the other part you have business. 1340 00:59:55,504 --> 00:59:58,638 And if any side gets too big or too small, 1341 00:59:58,682 --> 01:00:00,727 the motion picture will suffer. 1342 01:00:02,468 --> 01:00:05,645 And it became more about style over substance. 1343 01:00:05,689 --> 01:00:08,648 We saw all kinds of horrible movies 1344 01:00:08,692 --> 01:00:10,389 with lots of visual effects. 1345 01:00:10,432 --> 01:00:11,695 You know what we got rewarded for? 1346 01:00:11,738 --> 01:00:13,653 For fuckin'’ Jurassic Park? 1347 01:00:13,697 --> 01:00:15,612 Casper the Friendly Ghost. 1348 01:00:15,655 --> 01:00:17,178 I hated Casperwhen it was 2D. 1349 01:00:17,526 --> 01:00:19,790 Uh, Hi? 1350 01:00:19,833 --> 01:00:24,533 The concept became, "Let'’s redo everything digitally," 1351 01:00:24,577 --> 01:00:26,710 right, that was done in a two-dimensional medium. 1352 01:00:26,753 --> 01:00:28,407 I mean, if you look at something like Scooby Doo, 1353 01:00:28,668 --> 01:00:33,325 this ridiculously stupid-looking cartoon dog, 1354 01:00:34,195 --> 01:00:38,286 it'’s like, "No! That thing does not exist in our world! 1355 01:00:38,330 --> 01:00:41,202 I refuse to believe it! Take it away!" 1356 01:00:45,729 --> 01:00:46,991 ♪ Through the 1357 01:00:47,034 --> 01:00:49,080 This was the period when 1358 01:00:49,123 --> 01:00:52,736 motion pictures stopped being director-controlled 1359 01:00:52,779 --> 01:00:54,563 and started becoming corporate-driven. 1360 01:00:55,173 --> 01:00:57,175 And this was the beginning of the end. 1361 01:00:59,481 --> 01:01:01,266 The corporations have just kind of 1362 01:01:01,309 --> 01:01:02,571 taken everything over. 1363 01:01:03,442 --> 01:01:05,400 And fucked everything up. 1364 01:01:06,097 --> 01:01:07,185 And... 1365 01:01:07,881 --> 01:01:10,014 But they can still sell, you know, 1366 01:01:10,057 --> 01:01:12,059 lots of Coca-Cola, you know? 1367 01:01:12,103 --> 01:01:13,365 And... 1368 01:01:14,409 --> 01:01:15,976 crummy superhero movies. 1369 01:01:18,239 --> 01:01:20,938 Because of the success of Mask 1370 01:01:20,981 --> 01:01:23,941 we ended up producing a very popular comic 1371 01:01:23,984 --> 01:01:25,377 at the time called Spawn. 1372 01:01:31,122 --> 01:01:32,645 That was Mark and my foray 1373 01:01:32,689 --> 01:01:34,821 to getting into making our own films. 1374 01:01:35,126 --> 01:01:38,216 So, we leave ILM, boom. Gone, you know? 1375 01:01:38,259 --> 01:01:39,608 Then we end up hiring back the company 1376 01:01:39,652 --> 01:01:40,740 to do the visual effects. 1377 01:01:57,801 --> 01:01:59,498 ♪ Out came the sun 1378 01:01:59,541 --> 01:02:02,327 After Spawn, I don'’t have a job. 1379 01:02:02,980 --> 01:02:04,068 No job. 1380 01:02:05,765 --> 01:02:07,985 So, I was asked to do the visual effects 1381 01:02:08,028 --> 01:02:10,683 on The Hulkat ILM. 1382 01:02:12,250 --> 01:02:14,861 and then that article comes out about pencil neck geeks. 1383 01:02:14,905 --> 01:02:18,952 ♪ 1384 01:02:25,742 --> 01:02:27,874 Dennis Muren basically said, 1385 01:02:27,918 --> 01:02:29,876 "How much more of this do we have to take?" 1386 01:02:32,052 --> 01:02:34,881 Gone from ILM, kicked out. 1387 01:02:34,925 --> 01:02:36,578 I was done with them, they were done with me. 1388 01:02:39,538 --> 01:02:40,931 After all these years... 1389 01:02:42,889 --> 01:02:44,021 I'’ll never forget it. 1390 01:02:46,980 --> 01:02:49,983 What made him brilliant and a maverick 1391 01:02:50,027 --> 01:02:54,509 and a magnetic draw for many of us 1392 01:02:55,293 --> 01:02:56,903 soon became something 1393 01:02:56,947 --> 01:02:59,688 that I felt he needed to outgrow. 1394 01:03:02,604 --> 01:03:03,867 She just didn'’t like my antics. 1395 01:03:04,868 --> 01:03:05,999 She didn'’t like the drinking. 1396 01:03:07,740 --> 01:03:10,656 Everybody who'’s with me changes, right? 1397 01:03:10,699 --> 01:03:12,223 But they have to understand that I don'’t change. 1398 01:03:12,266 --> 01:03:13,572 I'’m always the fucking same. 1399 01:03:13,615 --> 01:03:15,617 Always. Right or wrong. 1400 01:03:17,532 --> 01:03:20,840 -Hm? What keeps me from-- -From changing. 1401 01:03:20,884 --> 01:03:22,450 What keeps me from changing? 1402 01:03:22,494 --> 01:03:24,975 Stupidity. 1403 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:27,368 I know nothin'’ else. 1404 01:03:30,981 --> 01:03:33,853 He was really good in the therapy sessions and... 1405 01:03:34,854 --> 01:03:36,987 the moment we got home he was like, 1406 01:03:37,030 --> 01:03:38,815 "“Oh, fuck that shit, you know, I'’m not gonna change, you know, 1407 01:03:38,858 --> 01:03:40,729 this is who I am, this is who I am, 1408 01:03:40,773 --> 01:03:42,166 this is what people love, this is what people expect, 1409 01:03:42,209 --> 01:03:43,515 I'’m Spaz, you know." 1410 01:03:43,558 --> 01:03:45,952 And I kind of naively thought, 1411 01:03:45,996 --> 01:03:49,521 "Well, let'’s give it some time and maybe he will change." 1412 01:03:53,568 --> 01:03:54,831 Give me a smile, honey. 1413 01:03:54,874 --> 01:03:56,658 Hi. 1414 01:03:56,702 --> 01:03:58,269 I'’m just kind of in a rush right now, as usual. 1415 01:03:58,312 --> 01:03:59,879 And as soon as Hannah discovers I'm gone, 1416 01:03:59,923 --> 01:04:01,576 then I will have no extra hands-- 1417 01:04:01,620 --> 01:04:03,317 I figure it'’s a good thing if I have 1418 01:04:03,361 --> 01:04:04,884 the camera on, then you won'’t yell at me. 1419 01:04:04,928 --> 01:04:06,407 I don'’t yell that much. 1420 01:04:06,451 --> 01:04:09,367 Excuse me. Steve, please, okay? 1421 01:04:09,933 --> 01:04:11,586 Hi! 1422 01:04:11,630 --> 01:04:13,850 -Where are we going, sweetie? 1423 01:04:15,068 --> 01:04:16,853 Hey, look! 1424 01:04:16,896 --> 01:04:18,506 Visual effects supervisors strapped to the fence! 1425 01:04:18,550 --> 01:04:20,117 Isn'’t that funny? 1426 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:21,901 What? I'’m sorry. 1427 01:04:21,945 --> 01:04:23,337 -What-- what did I say? -. 1428 01:04:23,381 --> 01:04:24,295 What am I not allowed to do now? 1429 01:04:26,340 --> 01:04:27,994 My parents split up when I was three. 1430 01:04:29,517 --> 01:04:32,956 It kind of just became normal 1431 01:04:32,999 --> 01:04:34,740 that my parents weren'’t together? 1432 01:04:34,783 --> 01:04:36,916 You know, my mom moved to San Rafael, 1433 01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:38,613 my dad still had the house. 1434 01:04:41,312 --> 01:04:44,358 Steve decided to take his career in a new direction, 1435 01:04:44,402 --> 01:04:46,012 so he was off feature films 1436 01:04:46,056 --> 01:04:47,971 and he was starting to direct commercials. 1437 01:04:50,974 --> 01:04:52,801 Blockbuster campaign. 1438 01:04:52,845 --> 01:04:53,933 It was very successful. 1439 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,981 We get approached by Disney, who has a film called 1440 01:04:58,024 --> 01:05:01,593 The Wild, and so we end up working on this movie. 1441 01:05:02,507 --> 01:05:05,162 2003, I was working as an assistant editor 1442 01:05:05,205 --> 01:05:06,337 for the movie, The Wild. 1443 01:05:06,380 --> 01:05:07,816 Hello, Spaz! 1444 01:05:09,166 --> 01:05:12,386 I was just so in love with Steve. 1445 01:05:12,996 --> 01:05:14,606 I really felt like he was my soulmate. 1446 01:05:15,607 --> 01:05:19,393 And we made a fantastic home together. 1447 01:05:19,437 --> 01:05:21,874 Okay, Christmas! 2005! 1448 01:05:21,918 --> 01:05:23,223 Christmas! -Christmas! 1449 01:05:23,267 --> 01:05:24,746 2005! 1450 01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:26,139 -Here, look, Hannah. -Hi! 1451 01:05:26,183 --> 01:05:27,575 He put a lot of love 1452 01:05:27,619 --> 01:05:28,968 and craftsmanship into that house. 1453 01:05:29,577 --> 01:05:31,014 It was warm and cozy, 1454 01:05:31,057 --> 01:05:33,190 unique, fun, creative place to be. 1455 01:05:34,931 --> 01:05:36,715 We decided to get married in the backyard. 1456 01:05:43,026 --> 01:05:45,985 Oh, yeah, baby! 1457 01:05:46,029 --> 01:05:50,207 ♪ 1458 01:05:50,250 --> 01:05:53,036 When we got back from Toronto after The Wild, 1459 01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:55,168 it was really hard for those of us 1460 01:05:55,212 --> 01:05:56,691 on the film to get work 1461 01:05:56,735 --> 01:05:59,390 because the film was so poorly received. 1462 01:05:59,433 --> 01:06:01,740 It was a drag. It was a drag. 1463 01:06:01,783 --> 01:06:03,916 And then, so, I went back to commercials again. 1464 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:05,831 Which one would be better, 1465 01:06:05,874 --> 01:06:08,529 to knock a guy off of a motorcycle? 1466 01:06:08,573 --> 01:06:11,358 Road Rash 3D. 1467 01:06:13,882 --> 01:06:15,580 You know, either you'’re the flavor of the month 1468 01:06:15,623 --> 01:06:16,755 or you'’re not. 1469 01:06:18,887 --> 01:06:20,585 It'’s just a very fickle business. 1470 01:06:23,980 --> 01:06:26,112 Things just stalled for me. 1471 01:06:28,897 --> 01:06:31,378 The commercials, those dried up. 1472 01:06:32,814 --> 01:06:35,817 Nothing was really coming in that was substantial enough. 1473 01:06:38,603 --> 01:06:39,865 The world had changed. 1474 01:06:41,649 --> 01:06:43,564 Sometimes, you'’re rewarded by, 1475 01:06:43,608 --> 01:06:47,264 uh, your longevity in-- in doing things 1476 01:06:47,307 --> 01:06:51,007 and, you know, those guys were relatively new to the game. 1477 01:06:51,833 --> 01:06:55,446 And, uh, they moved on very quickly 1478 01:06:55,489 --> 01:06:58,405 to wanting to direct their own stuff. 1479 01:06:59,102 --> 01:07:02,235 So, they moved into a whole 'nother zone 1480 01:07:02,279 --> 01:07:04,107 and then they kind of didn'’t come back. 1481 01:07:06,761 --> 01:07:09,199 The problem with this racket is that 1482 01:07:09,242 --> 01:07:10,504 if you'’re not... 1483 01:07:12,028 --> 01:07:14,769 in it, you-- Then you'’re not in it. 1484 01:07:17,076 --> 01:07:18,904 And he hadn'’t been in the game for a long time. 1485 01:07:21,124 --> 01:07:22,429 You know, you just get forgotten. 1486 01:07:28,131 --> 01:07:29,523 I reapplied to ILM. 1487 01:07:32,091 --> 01:07:33,179 They shut me down. 1488 01:07:35,616 --> 01:07:37,444 They don'’t want me back there and I don'’t blame ''‘em. 1489 01:07:38,489 --> 01:07:39,794 I don'’t blame ''‘em at all. 1490 01:07:42,841 --> 01:07:44,451 If I'’d been more political... 1491 01:07:45,713 --> 01:07:47,628 I wouldn'’t be struggling right now 1492 01:07:47,672 --> 01:07:50,022 to pay my God damn mortgage. 1493 01:07:59,162 --> 01:08:02,252 That rejection on a big stage... 1494 01:08:04,167 --> 01:08:07,996 I don'’t think I'll ever know 1495 01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,870 the true effects of what that feels like for him. 1496 01:08:13,001 --> 01:08:16,701 All of those feelings, like, just completely resurfaced 1497 01:08:16,744 --> 01:08:18,224 and he didn'’t know how to handle it. 1498 01:08:22,141 --> 01:08:25,231 It was a snowball of... 1499 01:08:26,232 --> 01:08:29,061 bad memories, guilt, 1500 01:08:29,105 --> 01:08:31,672 lack of clarity about certain things. 1501 01:08:34,284 --> 01:08:36,895 He just started drinking more. 1502 01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,160 It'’s a way to cover up 1503 01:08:41,204 --> 01:08:42,814 all the things you feel shitty about. 1504 01:08:44,990 --> 01:08:46,774 We were down at the pub every single day, 1505 01:08:46,818 --> 01:08:48,863 drinking for about three hours every night and then 1506 01:08:48,907 --> 01:08:52,867 that sort of grew into drinking before we went to the pub, 1507 01:08:52,911 --> 01:08:55,348 and, um, just getting into, 1508 01:08:55,392 --> 01:08:58,395 just the worst knock down, drag-out, 1509 01:08:58,438 --> 01:09:01,398 awful fights when we got home. 1510 01:09:03,051 --> 01:09:04,575 So, I finally worked up the courage 1511 01:09:04,618 --> 01:09:05,837 to walk into an AA meeting. 1512 01:09:06,794 --> 01:09:10,058 You go, you keep going back, and I got sober, 1513 01:09:10,102 --> 01:09:12,974 I stayed sober and, I'’m gonna sound like an AA thumper, 1514 01:09:13,018 --> 01:09:14,933 but by the grace of God I'’m still sober 1515 01:09:14,976 --> 01:09:17,196 and my marriage fell apart. 1516 01:09:19,546 --> 01:09:21,461 I knew that if I didn'’t move out, 1517 01:09:21,505 --> 01:09:22,723 I wouldn'’t stay sober. 1518 01:09:23,811 --> 01:09:26,118 It'’s common where... 1519 01:09:26,771 --> 01:09:29,730 two alcoholics, one gets sober and the other doesn'’t. 1520 01:09:31,079 --> 01:09:33,169 Well, I thought we were doin'’ okay. 1521 01:09:41,655 --> 01:09:43,266 Ellen, please, I-- 1522 01:09:52,362 --> 01:09:55,234 She left to light a fire 1523 01:09:55,278 --> 01:09:57,889 under my dad'’s ass, like, "“Hey, you gotta clean up your act 1524 01:09:57,932 --> 01:09:59,238 or I'’m gone for good." 1525 01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:02,807 The train was goin'’ 200 miles an hour. 1526 01:10:03,547 --> 01:10:05,505 I was either gonna go into the wall with it, 1527 01:10:05,549 --> 01:10:07,159 or I was gonna get off 1528 01:10:07,638 --> 01:10:11,207 and hope that Steve could get off before it-- it killed him. 1529 01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:13,426 So, I think she wanted to scare him a little bit. 1530 01:10:15,036 --> 01:10:16,777 And it only made it worse. 1531 01:10:24,045 --> 01:10:25,873 Boredom is destructive. 1532 01:10:31,618 --> 01:10:33,229 I'’m just waiting for another mission. 1533 01:10:35,796 --> 01:10:37,145 I don'’t have a mission anymore. 1534 01:10:42,673 --> 01:10:44,849 He completely isolated himself. 1535 01:10:46,067 --> 01:10:47,547 Lost a bunch of weight. 1536 01:10:48,809 --> 01:10:50,942 You know, he just looked sick. 1537 01:10:50,985 --> 01:10:52,160 It was awful. 1538 01:10:53,814 --> 01:10:56,817 He was waking up at noon. 1539 01:10:56,861 --> 01:10:57,949 Drinking. 1540 01:10:58,602 --> 01:11:00,168 Passing out at 4:00. 1541 01:11:00,821 --> 01:11:04,172 Waking up again at 7:00. 1542 01:11:04,216 --> 01:11:05,696 Drinking. 1543 01:11:05,739 --> 01:11:07,393 Passing out at midnight, 1544 01:11:07,437 --> 01:11:10,353 waking up at 4 AM to drink. 1545 01:11:12,224 --> 01:11:13,573 To see him... 1546 01:11:15,314 --> 01:11:16,446 plummet... 1547 01:11:17,185 --> 01:11:18,709 like, headfirst... 1548 01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:21,146 into the deep end... 1549 01:11:22,147 --> 01:11:24,497 that was one of the hardest things 1550 01:11:24,541 --> 01:11:25,672 to ever deal with. 1551 01:11:25,716 --> 01:11:28,371 ♪ 1552 01:11:32,636 --> 01:11:35,247 I don'’t think it'’s gonna end well for me. 1553 01:11:39,295 --> 01:11:40,513 God damn it. 1554 01:11:40,557 --> 01:11:42,341 I think it'’s gonna end bad. 1555 01:12:03,841 --> 01:12:06,452 -Fuck you! 1556 01:13:00,463 --> 01:13:02,029 I'’ve never been an adult. 1557 01:13:06,599 --> 01:13:09,297 I'’ve never been an adult, I'’ve only been, um... 1558 01:13:10,298 --> 01:13:12,736 I'’ve been a child, right, that kind of... 1559 01:13:14,128 --> 01:13:16,000 grew up, but, you know... 1560 01:13:18,045 --> 01:13:19,786 loves Saturday morning cartoons 1561 01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:21,919 and I-- I kind of wish that every day 1562 01:13:21,962 --> 01:13:24,617 was a Saturday morning cartoon, but it'’s not. 1563 01:13:25,444 --> 01:13:26,489 You know? 1564 01:13:38,979 --> 01:13:40,285 I'’m an alcoholic. 1565 01:13:42,983 --> 01:13:46,117 And... I lost my family. 1566 01:13:50,077 --> 01:13:51,339 I lost them all. 1567 01:13:56,606 --> 01:13:58,042 I just need a mission. 1568 01:14:01,611 --> 01:14:03,003 I have to invent the mission. 1569 01:14:06,529 --> 01:14:07,834 And what is the mission? 1570 01:14:10,446 --> 01:14:11,490 To sober up. 1571 01:14:13,623 --> 01:14:14,841 Hopefully, that'’ll-- 1572 01:14:15,668 --> 01:14:18,062 You know, resolve and some of it works out. 1573 01:14:18,889 --> 01:14:24,285 ♪ 1574 01:14:31,771 --> 01:14:32,946 It'’s Diane. 1575 01:14:35,340 --> 01:14:37,385 She'’s a sweetheart. Hi, Di. 1576 01:14:43,217 --> 01:14:45,698 Diane'’s a nurse, she'’s an RN, yeah. 1577 01:14:47,526 --> 01:14:48,919 She knows I'’m a mess. 1578 01:14:49,659 --> 01:14:52,792 Ready? What''’re you drinking there? 1579 01:14:52,836 --> 01:14:54,446 -A cider. -Hard cider? 1580 01:14:54,490 --> 01:14:55,926 Yeah. 1581 01:14:55,969 --> 01:14:57,754 Can you not drink that, please? 1582 01:14:57,797 --> 01:14:59,059 -You'’re on the property. -I'’m sorry. 1583 01:14:59,843 --> 01:15:01,584 -All right. -Don'’t drink that! 1584 01:15:01,627 --> 01:15:03,803 Gimme that! No, you-- you can'’t. 1585 01:15:05,239 --> 01:15:06,937 -Give it to him. -I'’m sorry. 1586 01:15:07,633 --> 01:15:09,505 Okay. That'’s all right. 1587 01:15:09,548 --> 01:15:11,898 We gotta get you in nursing and get your intake done. 1588 01:15:11,942 --> 01:15:13,770 So, you can, uh, grab your stuff. 1589 01:15:13,813 --> 01:15:15,336 You have to leave your camera in here. 1590 01:15:15,380 --> 01:15:16,512 Yeah, I got it. 1591 01:15:16,947 --> 01:15:18,731 Just a couple of these... 1592 01:15:19,906 --> 01:15:25,085 ♪ 1593 01:15:38,795 --> 01:15:40,187 So, it was time to smarten up. 1594 01:15:42,668 --> 01:15:43,930 Time to grow up. 1595 01:15:49,588 --> 01:15:51,459 I wouldn'’t be standing here if I had not made 1596 01:15:51,503 --> 01:15:53,157 that decision eight months ago. 1597 01:15:54,767 --> 01:15:56,116 Um... 1598 01:15:57,857 --> 01:15:59,076 It'’s a lot quieter. 1599 01:15:59,903 --> 01:16:01,600 I'’ve sort of shut down all the old ways, 1600 01:16:01,644 --> 01:16:03,515 all the old places, all the old people. 1601 01:16:04,385 --> 01:16:06,431 You know? Now, I'’m just stuck with me. 1602 01:16:08,172 --> 01:16:09,303 Which is good and bad. 1603 01:16:11,262 --> 01:16:13,569 I have to be very careful because beer was used 1604 01:16:13,612 --> 01:16:16,702 to run away from myself and I have myself only 1605 01:16:16,746 --> 01:16:18,486 and I have to be very, very careful. 1606 01:16:19,966 --> 01:16:23,491 You know, I always occupy my mind with things to do. 1607 01:16:24,405 --> 01:16:25,493 That''’s the most important thing. 1608 01:16:26,973 --> 01:16:30,150 Even if it includes something so simple as doing the dishes. 1609 01:16:34,198 --> 01:16:36,113 Being an adult is a very strange thing. 1610 01:16:38,855 --> 01:16:40,596 But looking in the mirror, 1611 01:16:40,639 --> 01:16:42,162 you'’re not frightened of yourself anymore. 1612 01:16:44,687 --> 01:16:46,297 So, where the journey'’s gonna take me now, 1613 01:16:46,340 --> 01:16:47,646 I don'’t know. 1614 01:16:47,690 --> 01:16:49,779 At 57, that'’s a good question. 1615 01:16:51,694 --> 01:16:54,174 This is kind of like being at a bus depot 1616 01:16:54,697 --> 01:16:56,307 and the next bus that comes along, 1617 01:16:56,350 --> 01:16:58,091 you don'’t know where it's going. 1618 01:16:58,614 --> 01:17:00,746 But, while you'’re at the depot, you get to pick up 1619 01:17:00,790 --> 01:17:02,226 some of your old hobbies 1620 01:17:02,269 --> 01:17:04,750 that you enjoyed and not have the threat 1621 01:17:04,794 --> 01:17:07,579 of taking your finger off ''‘cause you'’ve had a six-pack. 1622 01:17:10,713 --> 01:17:14,064 He'’s a lot more self-aware now. 1623 01:17:14,107 --> 01:17:16,327 And he'’s a lot more aware 1624 01:17:16,370 --> 01:17:19,765 of I'’d say, people and their needs. 1625 01:17:22,463 --> 01:17:24,030 I think the pain 1626 01:17:24,727 --> 01:17:28,556 of certain things in his life will never go away. 1627 01:17:30,167 --> 01:17:33,387 But he still has so much to give. 1628 01:17:34,388 --> 01:17:37,130 Welcome to the expert series. 1629 01:17:37,174 --> 01:17:39,002 We have, uh, Steve Williams, 1630 01:17:39,045 --> 01:17:42,875 he'’s here to share with you his expertise. 1631 01:17:45,269 --> 01:17:47,967 You guys are gonna have a good time, he'’s a lot of fun. 1632 01:17:48,011 --> 01:17:49,708 The thing about being an artist 1633 01:17:49,752 --> 01:17:51,362 I want you guys to remember is that everytime 1634 01:17:51,405 --> 01:17:55,148 there's plotted out path for you and rules, 1635 01:17:55,192 --> 01:17:56,889 -fuckin'’ break ''‘em, right? 1636 01:17:56,933 --> 01:17:58,717 -Yes! -And remember, 1637 01:17:58,761 --> 01:18:01,459 art is always about questioning established systems. 1638 01:18:03,504 --> 01:18:05,724 To continue to be relevant, 1639 01:18:05,768 --> 01:18:07,900 that'’s what we all want. 1640 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,860 Is to have some kind of body of experience 1641 01:18:10,903 --> 01:18:13,906 that'’s going to educate and inspire other people. 1642 01:18:15,125 --> 01:18:16,779 That'’s the gift of getting older. 1643 01:18:17,954 --> 01:18:20,870 You allow yourself to make mistakes, 1644 01:18:20,913 --> 01:18:22,349 like, really big mistakes. 1645 01:18:23,481 --> 01:18:27,050 Going to the wrong door and finding your way out. 1646 01:18:27,093 --> 01:18:29,443 That'’s where the gold is. 1647 01:18:29,487 --> 01:18:31,663 When you say pioneers, it makes you think of 1648 01:18:31,707 --> 01:18:33,230 a certain spirit of a person 1649 01:18:33,273 --> 01:18:34,753 that'’s willing to go out and risk it all 1650 01:18:34,797 --> 01:18:36,494 and-- and go for it. 1651 01:18:36,537 --> 01:18:38,278 Face whatever dangers they'’re gonna face 1652 01:18:38,322 --> 01:18:41,804 and be willing to try to fail at things and, uh, 1653 01:18:41,847 --> 01:18:44,241 take it to the next level. 1654 01:18:44,937 --> 01:18:46,634 I don'’t know when there'’s going to be 1655 01:18:46,678 --> 01:18:48,985 another breakthrough 1656 01:18:49,028 --> 01:18:53,163 that is as transformative as making the transition 1657 01:18:53,206 --> 01:18:55,905 from old-school effects to digital effects. 1658 01:18:56,601 --> 01:18:59,256 Is new ground being broken today? 1659 01:18:59,299 --> 01:19:01,911 Yeah, but experimentation 1660 01:19:01,954 --> 01:19:05,958 is left to scrappier, upstart maverick people. 1661 01:19:06,002 --> 01:19:08,918 We'’re all believers in our point of view. 1662 01:19:08,961 --> 01:19:10,397 Even though you have a lot of talent 1663 01:19:10,441 --> 01:19:12,530 and you're very passionate 1664 01:19:12,573 --> 01:19:14,837 it'’s still not easy to survive or to succeed in this world. 1665 01:19:21,582 --> 01:19:23,019 In some ways, 1666 01:19:23,715 --> 01:19:26,152 talented people are talented 1667 01:19:26,196 --> 01:19:28,589 because they are able 1668 01:19:28,633 --> 01:19:35,379 to stay in touch with sort of a childish nature in them. 1669 01:19:36,859 --> 01:19:41,646 Your ability to touch pure reactions to things 1670 01:19:41,689 --> 01:19:45,041 are kind of like seeing the world for the first time. 1671 01:19:46,782 --> 01:19:50,655 Anyone who can draw on that kind of 1672 01:19:50,698 --> 01:19:54,398 childish thinking has the opportunity 1673 01:19:54,441 --> 01:19:55,965 for greatness in them. 1674 01:19:56,008 --> 01:19:59,098 ♪ 1675 01:20:01,057 --> 01:20:06,018 ♪