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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[birds chirping]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[windmill creaking]

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[Steve]
It's a medium, God damn it.

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[gravel crunching]

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It ain't gonna fit me.

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-[windmill creaking]
-[gate lock clicking open]

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-Look at that.
-[gate clicking shut]

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[reporter]
Oh, it's exactly--

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It's exactly what I have,
but it's a medium,

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I don't think
it's gonna fit.

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-[reporter] You need a large?
-Yeah, minimum.

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I can't wear a shirt
unless it has a stain on it.

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If you wear a shirt that
doesn't have a stain on it,

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it's not a shirt.

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One of the biggest problems
I have is my memory.

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I just wanna forget everything.

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Unfortunately, I can't.

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-[woman] You raised her--
-[Steve] The past haunts me.

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[TV announcer] Do these animals
deserve the same protections

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given to other species?

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Or should they just
be left to die?

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[dinosaurs roars]

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These creatures
were here before us.

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[door slamming shut]

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[Steve] I guess Netflix
is doing the thing on Jurassic.

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They want to hear
the real story.

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Not a revisionist history
version.

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We're in "C" Theater

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at 3210 Kerner Boulevard,
San Rafael, California,

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the old ILM facility.

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In this theater
is where we projected

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every single one of the shots

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that we knew was gonna change
the entire film industry.

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When the T-Rex took a step,
you had a secondary jiggle.

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So, I had separate channels
of animation

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of literally
a digital bladder

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hung off
the hierarchy of the leg,

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so it shook on the bone.

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So, if the bladder shook,

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the outside control vertices
shook as well.

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So, every time
the Rex took a step,

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you had to have
a massive amount of shake

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of this muscle.

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A lot of people
are always referring back to it

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being the best
of all the Jurassics.

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And now, what is it?

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World domination
of everything--

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I mean the "Giganotosaurus",
that's the latest one.

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It was like three times
the size of the Rex.

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"It is?
Oh, I better go see the sequel."

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Why don't they just merge
Star Wars and Jurassic
together

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and come up
with one big mega movie?

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You know,
it's like dinosaurs in space

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and everyone's shooting
each other, you know?

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[somber music playing]

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I'm naive, I guess,

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when it comes
to a lot of stuff.

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And you get burned, y'know.

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You get burned.

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Things are so simple now,
right?

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Looking back
at the ILM days,

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it's almost like
it was a weird dream.

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Even though I was using
machines as a tool back then,

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I myself
was stuck in a machine.

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And this whole thing
about blind curiosity,

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trying to, A,
prove it yourself,

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and B, you know,

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prove it to the world,
you can do something.

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Little did I know...

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y'know, I created a monster.

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[T-Rex roaring
and growling]

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And joining me now
in the studio

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is the chief animator
at Lucasfilm, Steve Williams.

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George Lucas' Industrial Light
and Magic Company,

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the folks who provided
special effects

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for Star Wars,
is going commercial.

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[narrator] These hummingbirds
are not real.

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Animator Steve Williams
sketches out a line drawing

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on a computer screen.

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[woman] It was never
Steve's intention to combine

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his classical animation
training with computers,

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but now colleagues marvel,

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they've never seen anyone
create life so realistically.

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It was not biotechnology

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that brought the dinosaurs
to life inJurassic Park.

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[reporter 2]
Animator Steve Williams

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used a computer
to bring the T-Rex to life.

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[reporter 3]
The Universal Studios picture

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could generate as much
as $50 million this weekend.

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[reporter 4] Other studios
in town will not open

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any of their pictures
against it.

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[reporter 5] Williams
is one of the hottest

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computer animators
in Hollywood.

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[reporter 5]
Spreading his message

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that computer animation
is about art,

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not technology.

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I mean, is there anything
that worries you about this?

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[Steve] Oh, yeah,
I-- I think it's pretty--

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I-- I don't think
it's a good thing, but it's--

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[host] Well, so, you're sort of
like Dr. Frankenstein.

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[somber music playing]

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-[rain pattering]
-[thunder rumbling]

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[Steve] Everybody thinks that
chaos is completely random.

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There is no such thing
as random.

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Every single variable
is calculatable.

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And math
is nothing but a language

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to try and describe
what nature already knows.

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We're so steeped
in the rules...

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so when you think differently,
you're seen as a heretic.

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♪

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I know I was different,
you know, I-- I knew it.

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I've always been different.

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I had visions about
how things are gonna be...

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and not should be,
but just are going to be.

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Especially about,
you know, synthetic imagery.

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Here's a low-resolution data
of the T-Rex,

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and most of these points here

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where each one
of the bones were.

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Jurassic Park storyboards.

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"SS approved" means
Steven Spielberg approved.

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Chase scene four.

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75 frames. Took me four months
to animate this shot.

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Here's somebody
that was fundamental

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at that time,
in-- in, uh, the-- the,

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um, progress of this
disruptive technology.

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But, the way
that I know him now,

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he mainly likes to blacksmith,

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and we end up hanging out
in the shop

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because he likes
to get his hands dirty,

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just like I do.

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[Bill]
We all called him Spaz.

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Now, calling
Steve Williams "Spaz,"

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was, uh, a nickname,

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like, that giant guy
in high school

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that everybody called Tiny.

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[boy] Hey, Spaz,
my, how you doing, buddy?

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[Bill] That character
with the pocket protector

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and the thick glasses,
he was the opposite.

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Here was a motorcycle-riding,

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leather-jacket-wearing guy,

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who's the first one
that I ever met,

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that was an artist,

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who had computer

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and high-mathematical skills.

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Like Michelangelo took corpses
and dissected them,

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Spaz is a guy who kind of
dissected life a little bit.

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[Steve] I was just amazed
by how things worked.

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My whole life I was driven by
how things work.

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Cartoons deviated
from the rules

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of the way nature operates.

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It was sort of
questioning convention.

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-You're questioning reality.
-[neighing]

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Good he's got that
going for me.

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Got that going at me.

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[Steve] Sheridan College
in Toronto.

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All of us are misfits.

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We didn't think
conventionally.

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We're these, like,
these strange artists.

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I decided to take
classical animation.

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Then, I took
computer engineering,

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University of Toronto.

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Then I joined a company
in Toronto called Alias,

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using computers
to do animation.

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No one really thought about it
that way.

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They thought it
for data processing,

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they didn't really
think about it

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for actually animating.

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I was attempting to try
and replicate the real world

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in a synthetic environment.

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There were very few people
in the world that knew Alias,

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three-dimensional
computer graphics back in 1988.

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I was working on a system
called the "CIWS,"

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it was a Gatling gun that,
for the most part,

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sat on Iowa-class
battleships.

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The simulation
I was working,

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had the fluorocarbon
cooling system.

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ILM,
Industrial Light Magic,

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got wind
that there was somebody

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that actually knew something
about fluid dynamics.

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[man]
They're working on a movie

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where there's a water creature.

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[Howard] Now, you see
water doing things

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all the time,
but back in the day,

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you said, "Well, it's gonna be
water that comes alive,

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and then the face
comes out of the water."

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People would just blank out.

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It was a big question mark
for everybody.

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What Jim had seen
in computer graphics

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up to that point,

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was all the other
prior films

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that had used
computer graphics,

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like Last Starfighter,
and Tron,

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and even
Young Sherlock Holmes.

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CG had
an artificiality to it.

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We were looking
for a photo-real thing.

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His previous films,
Terminatorand Aliens,

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they were about
thrills and action.

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They were not about just
a straight sense of wonder.

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He really wanted to
show that he could do that.

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00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:07,459
We clearly needed
additional talent

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00:09:07,503 --> 00:09:10,027
and we found
Steve Williams.

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The quality was paramount.

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If we were gonna be successful,

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this stuff had to be
not just good enough,

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it had to be great,
it had to be convincing,

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00:09:20,472 --> 00:09:22,039
it had to be something

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00:09:22,083 --> 00:09:25,216
that ultimately
no one had ever seen before.

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So I ended up
at Industrial Light Magic,

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00:09:28,524 --> 00:09:31,614
and I got hired
in October of 1988

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to be Chief Animator
on The Abyss.

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We had two machines,

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Silicon Graphics GT60
and a GT80.

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The first thing I had to do

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was figure out
how to animate the spine

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of the pseudopod.

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00:09:45,672 --> 00:09:47,282
"The Water Weenie"
was the nickname.

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00:09:48,239 --> 00:09:49,414
[Douglas]
Everyone's looking at us.

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00:09:50,154 --> 00:09:51,721
If we fail,

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00:09:51,765 --> 00:09:53,070
it would have been
a tremendous setback.

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[Mark] I was the first Ph.D.
at ILM

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00:09:57,422 --> 00:09:59,120
in the subject
of computer graphics.

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00:10:00,077 --> 00:10:01,731
We didn't have
a lot office space,

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00:10:01,775 --> 00:10:03,864
but I got put in this thing
called "The Pit,"

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00:10:04,995 --> 00:10:06,867
which was downstairs
and was a sound room.

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00:10:06,910 --> 00:10:09,565
And we turned it into this
kind of wild, wacky office.

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Spaz was put down there too.

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My first impression,
he walks in,

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he's got, like,
a tight, white t-shirt,

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00:10:19,053 --> 00:10:20,924
crew cut,
Dudley Do-Right chin,

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00:10:20,968 --> 00:10:22,622
old school jeans
rolled up at the bottom,

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00:10:22,665 --> 00:10:23,797
and wearing engineer boots.

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It-- it's, like,
a '50s biker thing

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00:10:27,496 --> 00:10:29,498
or, you know,
this kind of strange,

236
00:10:29,541 --> 00:10:31,326
macho Canadian thing
or who knows what.

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00:10:31,369 --> 00:10:33,110
[Steve] There's this fucking
hippie and I'm thinking,

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00:10:33,154 --> 00:10:34,721
"Ah, God damned fucking hippie,

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00:10:34,764 --> 00:10:37,462
God damned Californian,"
you know?

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00:10:37,506 --> 00:10:38,812
And he's got his feet
on the desk

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and playing on the stereo

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00:10:40,857 --> 00:10:43,120
Alice Cooper,
"Love it to Death."

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00:10:43,164 --> 00:10:46,733
That's the first fucking
album I ever had and he goes,

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00:10:46,776 --> 00:10:48,299
"That's the first album
I ever had."

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00:10:48,343 --> 00:10:50,084
And that was it. Game over.

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00:10:50,693 --> 00:10:52,477
[Mark]
We hit it off right away.

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00:10:52,521 --> 00:10:54,131
I mean, it's funny, even though
we're very different,

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00:10:54,175 --> 00:10:55,480
we like to have fun.

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00:10:56,264 --> 00:10:58,527
Have fun, be fun.
That was our motto.

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00:10:59,397 --> 00:11:01,138
[Steve]
We were outsiders,

251
00:11:01,182 --> 00:11:04,098
only because we had this
technical animation solution,

252
00:11:04,141 --> 00:11:05,708
but we hadn't really worked
on films.

253
00:11:06,622 --> 00:11:08,493
My job, you know,

254
00:11:08,537 --> 00:11:10,234
was to try and figure out
the nuance of the animation.

255
00:11:11,453 --> 00:11:13,542
Mark had come up
with this code

256
00:11:13,585 --> 00:11:15,762
that allowed us to put
little sine wave distributions

257
00:11:15,805 --> 00:11:17,546
over the surface
to create a rippling effect.

258
00:11:18,286 --> 00:11:20,288
[Mark] How to take surfaces
and make them undulate

259
00:11:20,331 --> 00:11:21,942
like they're water,
even though they're tubes,

260
00:11:21,985 --> 00:11:23,683
that was a big pain in the ass.

261
00:11:24,205 --> 00:11:26,120
We had to just find solutions.

262
00:11:26,729 --> 00:11:29,123
[Douglas]
Jim sent us back scans

263
00:11:29,166 --> 00:11:31,038
with the video we had

264
00:11:31,081 --> 00:11:33,649
just drawing on it
with a marker, he faxed them.

265
00:11:33,693 --> 00:11:36,260
Ultimately,
we were able to accomplish

266
00:11:36,304 --> 00:11:37,914
what Jim was looking for.

267
00:11:38,654 --> 00:11:40,961
Cameron had said,
had that scene failed,

268
00:11:41,004 --> 00:11:42,919
he would've just yanked it
from the entire film.

269
00:11:43,615 --> 00:11:45,400
But it ended being
one of the premiere scenes.

270
00:11:45,879 --> 00:11:47,054
Everybody looked at it
and went,

271
00:11:47,097 --> 00:11:48,708
"How in blazes was that done?"

272
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,710
And that's
where the deal changed.

273
00:11:53,364 --> 00:11:56,019
I knew darn well
this would be the best

274
00:11:56,063 --> 00:11:57,542
that I would ever do.

275
00:11:57,586 --> 00:11:58,630
Ever.

276
00:11:59,893 --> 00:12:01,416
I just knew
that there wasn't gonna be

277
00:12:01,459 --> 00:12:03,331
any more creative hurdles,

278
00:12:03,374 --> 00:12:05,725
there wouldn't be anything
like what we were doing at ILM.

279
00:12:08,728 --> 00:12:10,904
When you grow up in Canada,
it's like...

280
00:12:12,644 --> 00:12:15,299
you grow up
with eight colors, okay?

281
00:12:16,431 --> 00:12:19,477
So, you have to learn
how to design and draw,

282
00:12:19,521 --> 00:12:20,914
and paint
with these eight colors.

283
00:12:20,957 --> 00:12:22,567
When you come to the States,

284
00:12:22,611 --> 00:12:24,308
you're instantly,
across the border,

285
00:12:24,352 --> 00:12:25,788
given 20 colors.

286
00:12:25,832 --> 00:12:28,748
[cheerful
upbeat music playing]

287
00:12:32,012 --> 00:12:33,796
It blows your bloody mind.

288
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,799
You can have a '65 Cadillac
without any rust on it.

289
00:12:36,843 --> 00:12:39,236
Engines, gas,

290
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,718
bullets, beer, everything,
just like that, snap.

291
00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:44,372
Everything's
a half an hour away.

292
00:12:44,415 --> 00:12:46,374
It's great.
It's like being in Disneyland.

293
00:12:47,592 --> 00:12:50,117
One, one gun,
ah, ah, ah, ah.

294
00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:55,644
In America,
anybody can do anything.

295
00:12:56,297 --> 00:12:58,734
All you have to do
is put in the dedication

296
00:12:58,778 --> 00:13:00,301
and the sweat,

297
00:13:00,344 --> 00:13:01,563
and you can get
whatever you fucking want.

298
00:13:02,956 --> 00:13:04,827
That concept
didn't exist in Canada.

299
00:13:06,220 --> 00:13:07,699
Growing up in Toronto,

300
00:13:09,397 --> 00:13:11,007
you're growing up
in suppression.

301
00:13:12,052 --> 00:13:13,967
You're growing up
in bureaucracy.

302
00:13:14,750 --> 00:13:17,144
You are not qualified
to do this.

303
00:13:18,493 --> 00:13:19,799
The prime minister
at the time

304
00:13:19,842 --> 00:13:21,017
was a guy named
Pierre Trudeau.

305
00:13:21,583 --> 00:13:23,063
And Pierre Trudeau said,

306
00:13:23,106 --> 00:13:24,151
"If you don't like it here
in Canada,

307
00:13:24,194 --> 00:13:25,630
move somewhere else."

308
00:13:25,674 --> 00:13:27,589
So, I said,
"Okay, fine. I'm gonna."

309
00:13:28,111 --> 00:13:29,199
And I did.

310
00:13:31,462 --> 00:13:33,334
So, this is
the original mousepad

311
00:13:33,377 --> 00:13:36,424
that I used
to build Terminator 2.

312
00:13:37,599 --> 00:13:41,081
I was there so much
I ended up wearing out the pad.

313
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:43,648
Pretty funny, eh?

314
00:13:46,173 --> 00:13:48,262
[Van] The pseudopod sequence
was a validation

315
00:13:48,305 --> 00:13:50,699
that this was a technique
that had a lot of promise.

316
00:13:51,874 --> 00:13:54,572
But it took Jim Cameron
on his next film,

317
00:13:54,616 --> 00:13:57,227
Terminator 2, to kind of
take it to the next step

318
00:13:57,271 --> 00:13:59,229
of what you could do
with it.

319
00:14:04,278 --> 00:14:07,716
The Abyss encouraged me
to take it a step further,

320
00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:09,022
or many steps further.

321
00:14:09,065 --> 00:14:10,980
He knew to try and push it.

322
00:14:11,024 --> 00:14:13,113
And that was the good thing
about Cameron, he pushed it.

323
00:14:13,156 --> 00:14:14,766
He believed in it,

324
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:16,333
even though he didn't know
the technology

325
00:14:16,377 --> 00:14:18,814
or the technique
and he let myself and Spaz

326
00:14:18,858 --> 00:14:20,468
and everyone run with it.

327
00:14:23,688 --> 00:14:26,474
[Steve] Everyone's neck
was on the line, including his.

328
00:14:28,084 --> 00:14:30,043
The biggest
technical challenge

329
00:14:30,086 --> 00:14:33,176
was building a human in data,
it hadn't been done before.

330
00:14:33,220 --> 00:14:36,092
[Mark] Robert Patrick
is the T-1000.

331
00:14:36,136 --> 00:14:37,615
We're gonna study his body,

332
00:14:37,659 --> 00:14:39,269
we're gonna watch
his movements,

333
00:14:39,313 --> 00:14:41,576
we're gonna find a way
to capture his quality.

334
00:14:42,229 --> 00:14:44,057
[Steve] There was
no motion capture back then.

335
00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:46,146
So, Mark and I thought

336
00:14:46,189 --> 00:14:48,452
"Okay, well, let's do
what Muybridge had done."

337
00:14:48,496 --> 00:14:51,586
Put a grid,
but not on the background.

338
00:14:52,456 --> 00:14:53,588
Put a grid on the guy.

339
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:56,417
[Robert]
The day I got cast,

340
00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:59,942
I'm flown
to wherever the hell ILM is.

341
00:15:00,769 --> 00:15:04,773
Spaz and Mark start to paint
these grids over me...

342
00:15:06,340 --> 00:15:08,908
and I had no idea
what the fuck they were doing.

343
00:15:08,951 --> 00:15:11,388
Pardon my language, but,
you know, they're animators,

344
00:15:11,432 --> 00:15:13,086
I don't know
what they're doing, but they--

345
00:15:13,129 --> 00:15:14,826
they seem real interested
in what I'm doing.

346
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:17,177
[Steve] All right,
oh, man, oh, man.

347
00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:19,614
-I'm one of the biggest--
-[Steve] No, no, you're not.

348
00:15:19,657 --> 00:15:21,877
Yes, I am.
I could have been a T-1000.

349
00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:24,184
[Steve] You can only pray
to have lines like that.

350
00:15:24,227 --> 00:15:26,012
I think
that's the only time

351
00:15:26,055 --> 00:15:27,665
I ever seen you with a smile,
Robert, huh?

352
00:15:27,709 --> 00:15:29,972
[Mark laughs]
He's out of character.

353
00:15:30,016 --> 00:15:33,149
[Robert] Mark and Steve
were so inquisitive

354
00:15:33,193 --> 00:15:34,977
about what was I thinking,

355
00:15:35,021 --> 00:15:37,197
where was I getting
these ideas?

356
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,894
If you're my target now,

357
00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:40,940
my left leg and my hip
would drop back,

358
00:15:40,983 --> 00:15:43,246
my hip would lead me,
and then the target's there.

359
00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:44,987
[Steve] Gotcha.

360
00:15:45,031 --> 00:15:45,901
[Robert] Immediately,
it clicked with that.

361
00:15:46,597 --> 00:15:48,556
We had, like,
our own theory,

362
00:15:48,599 --> 00:15:51,428
our own T-1000 talk,
our own jargon.

363
00:15:52,473 --> 00:15:54,736
And they were kinda close
to my age.

364
00:15:54,779 --> 00:15:56,651
And I could tell
they were young and eager,

365
00:15:56,694 --> 00:15:59,697
trying to make a name
for themselves as well.

366
00:16:02,048 --> 00:16:04,746
We were all
pretty passionate.

367
00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:07,183
And I remember thinking,

368
00:16:07,227 --> 00:16:09,098
"T-2 man,
it's a whole 'nother level up."

369
00:16:10,447 --> 00:16:12,058
[Robert]
The walk out of the fire,

370
00:16:12,972 --> 00:16:16,279
the first unveiling
of the special powers

371
00:16:16,323 --> 00:16:17,977
the T-1000 had.

372
00:16:18,803 --> 00:16:20,544
[soft music playing]

373
00:16:20,588 --> 00:16:22,416
The first take I did,
I went in there

374
00:16:22,459 --> 00:16:24,026
and I could smell
my shirt burning.

375
00:16:24,070 --> 00:16:25,897
And I could feel it
on the back of my ears.

376
00:16:25,941 --> 00:16:27,508
My ears were getting singed.

377
00:16:28,204 --> 00:16:29,553
[Steve]
The first shot I had to do

378
00:16:29,597 --> 00:16:31,381
was CC1
walking out of the fire.

379
00:16:31,425 --> 00:16:33,296
There was 375 frames long,

380
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:35,472
fully skin walking T-1000.

381
00:16:36,125 --> 00:16:37,735
[Robert]
I remember shooting that,

382
00:16:37,779 --> 00:16:39,259
and I remember
everybody being frustrated.

383
00:16:39,302 --> 00:16:41,261
I remember me
being very frustrated,

384
00:16:41,304 --> 00:16:43,002
because I thought
I was fucking it up

385
00:16:43,045 --> 00:16:44,960
for everybody.

386
00:16:45,004 --> 00:16:47,049
I think we did like 27 takes
or something, I don't know.

387
00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:49,530
I do remember that day,

388
00:16:49,573 --> 00:16:52,489
Jim and I sitting somewhere
in that canal,

389
00:16:52,533 --> 00:16:53,925
off to the side
in the shade.

390
00:16:54,709 --> 00:16:57,016
I think he could sense
at how frustrated I was

391
00:16:58,321 --> 00:17:02,195
and he said, "Hey, man,
this has never been done.

392
00:17:03,761 --> 00:17:05,198
We're making movie history.

393
00:17:06,982 --> 00:17:08,418
This is history right now."

394
00:17:10,464 --> 00:17:11,900
[Steve]
At ILM,

395
00:17:11,943 --> 00:17:13,119
we shot all this
great reference material

396
00:17:13,162 --> 00:17:14,294
of Robert Patrick walking.

397
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,993
I'd come up with a method
to actually build the T-1000.

398
00:17:18,472 --> 00:17:19,690
[man]
Okay, ready to roll camera?

399
00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:22,302
All right,
roll "B" camera.

400
00:17:22,345 --> 00:17:23,433
Action!

401
00:17:24,565 --> 00:17:26,219
[Steve]
I started with a set of bones.

402
00:17:27,089 --> 00:17:31,050
[Robert] Spaz, he actually
animated my skeletal system.

403
00:17:34,096 --> 00:17:36,098
[Steve] So it operates
like any standard puppet,

404
00:17:36,142 --> 00:17:37,752
it's got 30 channels to it

405
00:17:37,795 --> 00:17:39,623
that go from anywhere
from controlling

406
00:17:39,667 --> 00:17:41,451
the speed of his legs

407
00:17:41,495 --> 00:17:43,236
to the speed
of what his fingers are doing.

408
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:44,933
This is really
the first successful step

409
00:17:44,976 --> 00:17:46,804
to adding real life

410
00:17:46,848 --> 00:17:49,416
to an otherwise inanimate
piece of geometry.

411
00:17:49,459 --> 00:17:51,418
We are destined to do that
or nothing.

412
00:17:51,461 --> 00:17:53,811
We knew that other people
had come so far,

413
00:17:53,855 --> 00:17:55,683
we wanted to go beyond that.

414
00:17:56,945 --> 00:17:58,425
Once that shot happened,
that was it.

415
00:17:59,469 --> 00:18:00,557
Everybody knew.

416
00:18:02,429 --> 00:18:03,865
That was a new beginning.

417
00:18:05,649 --> 00:18:06,998
[Van Vliet]
ILM was evolving.

418
00:18:08,391 --> 00:18:12,613
If you're lucky,
you will find a place to go

419
00:18:12,656 --> 00:18:15,746
where they will continue
to subsidize your insanity.

420
00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:18,488
Stories that wanted to be told
ten years ago

421
00:18:18,532 --> 00:18:20,490
couldn't really be told

422
00:18:20,534 --> 00:18:22,449
because there was limitations
in the effects industry.

423
00:18:22,492 --> 00:18:24,407
You know, so...

424
00:18:24,451 --> 00:18:26,583
Every time we did something
that became better and digital,

425
00:18:26,627 --> 00:18:29,369
more experts moved in,
that we'd never seen before.

426
00:18:30,370 --> 00:18:31,675
More managers moved in.

427
00:18:32,633 --> 00:18:34,591
More people to tell you
what you were doing wrong,

428
00:18:34,635 --> 00:18:35,723
even though
they didn't even understand

429
00:18:35,766 --> 00:18:36,854
what you were doing.

430
00:18:37,551 --> 00:18:39,857
Many folks,
particularly in the beginning,

431
00:18:39,901 --> 00:18:42,599
didn't embrace it,
nor did they feel, like,

432
00:18:42,643 --> 00:18:45,167
they had the capability
to embrace it.

433
00:18:45,863 --> 00:18:47,691
You didn't want
to lose your job

434
00:18:47,735 --> 00:18:49,302
to anything that was new.

435
00:18:50,085 --> 00:18:52,435
Right away, we knew,
"This is coming."

436
00:18:53,044 --> 00:18:54,785
A lot of people
were terrified by it,

437
00:18:54,829 --> 00:18:56,744
"It's gonna put model makers
out of work."

438
00:18:56,787 --> 00:18:58,789
It was a live conversation
happening all the time

439
00:18:58,833 --> 00:18:59,834
'cause it was a threat.

440
00:19:00,530 --> 00:19:02,184
That's how we saw it.

441
00:19:02,228 --> 00:19:04,839
So not only did they not want
to embrace them,

442
00:19:04,882 --> 00:19:06,928
they actually
wanted to see them fail,

443
00:19:06,971 --> 00:19:08,147
in my opinion.

444
00:19:09,583 --> 00:19:11,498
But, this was the future.

445
00:19:11,541 --> 00:19:13,282
And I just started
buying gear.

446
00:19:13,326 --> 00:19:15,154
Throwing money into digital.

447
00:19:15,763 --> 00:19:17,591
Now, we started hiring.

448
00:19:17,634 --> 00:19:20,811
And we needed to hire people
to do Terminator 2.

449
00:19:20,855 --> 00:19:22,465
[Geoff]
On The Abyss,

450
00:19:22,509 --> 00:19:24,250
there were probably
seven or eight, um,

451
00:19:24,293 --> 00:19:25,947
computer graphics artists.

452
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:27,514
And by the time
we got to Terminator

453
00:19:27,557 --> 00:19:29,994
it had grown to around 15.

454
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:33,084
We were kind of new
to this whole field.

455
00:19:33,128 --> 00:19:35,217
We were inventing
it as we went along.

456
00:19:36,131 --> 00:19:38,481
[Schlag] I went into ILM
my first day,

457
00:19:38,525 --> 00:19:41,441
and they crack open a binder
full of storyboards,

458
00:19:41,484 --> 00:19:43,182
and I'm turning
through the pages

459
00:19:43,225 --> 00:19:44,705
and looking at one thing
and saying,

460
00:19:44,748 --> 00:19:46,881
"Oh, well,
how are we gonna do that?"

461
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:49,362
And they said,
"Oh, we don't know yet."

462
00:19:50,101 --> 00:19:52,016
I turn a few more pages
and look at something else

463
00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:53,583
and,
"Oh, how do we do that?"

464
00:19:54,323 --> 00:19:55,803
"We don't know."

465
00:19:55,846 --> 00:19:57,848
And I thought,
"You people are crazy."

466
00:19:58,849 --> 00:20:01,069
[Michael] What I knew
was geometry and animation,

467
00:20:01,112 --> 00:20:02,679
and a little bit
about lighting.

468
00:20:02,723 --> 00:20:04,290
I didn't know anything
about compositing,

469
00:20:04,333 --> 00:20:05,726
I certainly
didn't know anything

470
00:20:05,769 --> 00:20:07,336
about traditional
special effects.

471
00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:08,685
I wasn't even
a big movie buff, really.

472
00:20:09,469 --> 00:20:12,689
[Stefen] I had no training
in film whatsoever.

473
00:20:13,299 --> 00:20:14,822
Not a single day
of film school.

474
00:20:15,518 --> 00:20:18,478
Every filmmaker who wanted
to do something new,

475
00:20:18,521 --> 00:20:19,696
came to ILM.

476
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:22,264
But, doing traditional effects,

477
00:20:22,308 --> 00:20:24,353
blowing things up
in camera,

478
00:20:24,397 --> 00:20:26,225
and then optically
printing them

479
00:20:26,268 --> 00:20:28,488
was very much
still the norm back then.

480
00:20:29,053 --> 00:20:30,707
As the manager of the company,

481
00:20:30,751 --> 00:20:32,927
what I really needed to do
is foster change,

482
00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:35,669
so I needed to take some of
the computer graphics people

483
00:20:35,712 --> 00:20:38,585
and put them in
with the old school masters.

484
00:20:39,194 --> 00:20:41,501
And I carved out,
like, a week of time

485
00:20:41,544 --> 00:20:43,894
of these people
to be together in a seminar

486
00:20:43,938 --> 00:20:45,505
so that
they could teach each other.

487
00:20:49,683 --> 00:20:53,208
It was like oil and water.

488
00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:55,732
And this is, uh,
C-3PO, huh, you know.

489
00:20:56,255 --> 00:20:58,169
[Scott]
The computer graphics people

490
00:20:58,213 --> 00:21:00,955
that were being hired
had very little time,

491
00:21:00,998 --> 00:21:03,827
nor interest,
in old school technology.

492
00:21:03,871 --> 00:21:06,047
And let's see how
his vital signs are.

493
00:21:06,090 --> 00:21:08,005
Well, after all these years
he still holds up.

494
00:21:08,049 --> 00:21:09,398
[Scott]
It was like, you know,

495
00:21:09,442 --> 00:21:11,313
your high school students
saying,

496
00:21:11,357 --> 00:21:12,880
"Why do I have to study math?
I don't need to study.

497
00:21:12,923 --> 00:21:14,534
I have this thing,
it's a calculator."

498
00:21:15,622 --> 00:21:18,755
[Mark] We all loved ILM
and we loved George Lucas

499
00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:20,279
and we loved all that stuff

500
00:21:20,322 --> 00:21:21,671
'cause it had an impact
on our lives.

501
00:21:21,715 --> 00:21:24,892
But, we weren't,
like, mad fanboys.

502
00:21:24,935 --> 00:21:27,547
We believed in kind of
the irony of it all, you know?

503
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:29,810
So, it wasn't, like,
to be taken so seriously,

504
00:21:29,853 --> 00:21:32,247
it wasn't, like, uh, uh,

505
00:21:32,291 --> 00:21:34,293
we wanted to deify
or worship all these things.

506
00:21:34,336 --> 00:21:36,164
So, we were-- First of all,
we were casual about it.

507
00:21:37,339 --> 00:21:39,298
Hello, how are you?

508
00:21:39,341 --> 00:21:41,387
My name's Dobbie,
Dobbie Dickwit.

509
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:43,345
[Bill] Steve Williams
was a combination

510
00:21:43,389 --> 00:21:47,915
of brilliance, naivete,
some childishness,

511
00:21:47,958 --> 00:21:50,744
all wrapped
into one package.

512
00:21:50,787 --> 00:21:52,485
And I think, uh,

513
00:21:52,528 --> 00:21:55,966
some of that rubbed management
the wrong way.

514
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:57,751
He drove me crazy.

515
00:21:57,794 --> 00:21:59,492
He drove everybody crazy
in that marketing department

516
00:21:59,535 --> 00:22:01,407
'cause he did not do
what we wanted him to do.

517
00:22:01,972 --> 00:22:04,279
And he almost had,
like, a secret glee,

518
00:22:04,323 --> 00:22:06,063
by not doing
what we wanted him to do.

519
00:22:07,543 --> 00:22:09,763
[Bill] If you're gonna have
a successful company

520
00:22:09,806 --> 00:22:11,504
with creative people in it,

521
00:22:11,547 --> 00:22:15,769
you gotta give some leeway
to these unusual types.

522
00:22:15,812 --> 00:22:19,642
They are young,
full of energy,

523
00:22:19,686 --> 00:22:22,950
and some of them
are oddballs.

524
00:22:22,993 --> 00:22:25,082
Well, hi there,
I am Hickory, I own this farm.

525
00:22:25,126 --> 00:22:26,693
-Nice to meet you.
-[puppeteer] Ow!

526
00:22:26,736 --> 00:22:29,260
Let go
you fucking asshole.

527
00:22:29,304 --> 00:22:30,784
[puppeteer yelling]

528
00:22:30,827 --> 00:22:32,612
There was a lot
of serious work there,

529
00:22:32,655 --> 00:22:34,701
but there was also
a lot of nonsense.

530
00:22:34,744 --> 00:22:36,920
And you have to have
a lot of nonsense

531
00:22:36,964 --> 00:22:40,097
to actually get
creative stuff done.

532
00:22:40,141 --> 00:22:43,100
It's part of the equation.

533
00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:45,973
[Mark]
We would have these parties

534
00:22:46,016 --> 00:22:47,714
called "pit parties."

535
00:22:47,757 --> 00:22:49,498
[Steve] We hung up fliers
all around the company,

536
00:22:49,542 --> 00:22:52,414
it said, "Nailed, an evening
of social penetration."

537
00:22:53,676 --> 00:22:57,245
-[upbeat music playing]
-[crowd chattering]

538
00:23:00,727 --> 00:23:02,946
We had two big bowls,

539
00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:04,818
"Mystic Masonic Punch,"

540
00:23:04,861 --> 00:23:06,863
and "Our Lady
of the Berry Wine."

541
00:23:07,908 --> 00:23:10,301
There are people running around
drunk out of their heads.

542
00:23:11,607 --> 00:23:13,479
[Stefen]
There's really no guidelines

543
00:23:13,522 --> 00:23:15,263
or no established standards

544
00:23:15,306 --> 00:23:17,091
of how we were supposed
to behave

545
00:23:17,134 --> 00:23:19,354
or what we're supposed to do
or not do.

546
00:23:19,398 --> 00:23:21,530
So, there were certain drugs
were consumed,

547
00:23:21,574 --> 00:23:23,402
and, well,
I took some mushrooms

548
00:23:23,445 --> 00:23:25,447
and watched some black
and white movie in reverse.

549
00:23:26,274 --> 00:23:27,884
[Scott] The fact
that they were down there

550
00:23:27,928 --> 00:23:29,582
in the pit, they could let off
a lot of steam.

551
00:23:30,234 --> 00:23:32,933
Steve would have a hockey stick
and he'd be bashing something.

552
00:23:33,803 --> 00:23:35,370
I end up falling off the desk

553
00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:36,850
and falling
into a pile of glass.

554
00:23:37,677 --> 00:23:39,069
I didn't have any feeling
for a while.

555
00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:41,724
I was suspended twice,

556
00:23:41,768 --> 00:23:43,465
because we fucking
destroyed the place.

557
00:23:45,815 --> 00:23:47,513
[Scott]
You needed to allow people

558
00:23:47,556 --> 00:23:50,951
to make mistakes
and experiment.

559
00:23:51,821 --> 00:23:54,563
You also needed to allow them
to understand

560
00:23:54,607 --> 00:23:55,956
that it was a business.

561
00:23:57,044 --> 00:23:58,872
[Steve] There was a lot
of politics at the time

562
00:23:58,915 --> 00:24:00,874
because it was
a high-profile film.

563
00:24:00,917 --> 00:24:02,484
[Stefen]
In The Abyss,

564
00:24:02,528 --> 00:24:04,225
you know,
there was a small sequence.

565
00:24:04,268 --> 00:24:05,835
James Cameron
had basically said,

566
00:24:05,879 --> 00:24:08,403
"If this does not get done
on schedule,

567
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:10,318
I can just cut it out."

568
00:24:10,361 --> 00:24:12,973
Now, for Terminator 2,
it was pretty clear

569
00:24:13,016 --> 00:24:16,063
that if computer graphics
didn't work out,

570
00:24:16,106 --> 00:24:17,194
that would be a problem.

571
00:24:18,021 --> 00:24:19,806
So, the pressure was on.

572
00:24:19,849 --> 00:24:22,373
Somehow, everybody around us
just had to trust us.

573
00:24:23,113 --> 00:24:24,506
[Steve] If the studio
was about to spend

574
00:24:24,550 --> 00:24:26,508
five or six million dollars,

575
00:24:26,552 --> 00:24:29,076
they want somebody
that's got some cred, right?

576
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,686
Not us young punks.

577
00:24:30,730 --> 00:24:32,862
For a group
of computer graphics people

578
00:24:32,906 --> 00:24:34,647
who are trying
to prove themselves,

579
00:24:34,690 --> 00:24:37,258
you had to have a face for that,
and that was Dennis.

580
00:24:38,607 --> 00:24:41,567
[John] Dennis Muren
looms big over everything.

581
00:24:42,176 --> 00:24:43,612
He is Optimus Prime.

582
00:24:44,395 --> 00:24:45,832
[Geoff]
Dennis had all the experience

583
00:24:45,875 --> 00:24:47,834
and such great credentials.

584
00:24:47,877 --> 00:24:49,531
[Scott] He was the leader
of the pack.

585
00:24:49,575 --> 00:24:51,533
He was the guy
with the most gold statues,

586
00:24:51,577 --> 00:24:53,317
he was the guy that was still
standing in there the longest.

587
00:24:53,361 --> 00:24:55,276
He was the guy.

588
00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:57,452
Computer generated images
are a way of coming up

589
00:24:57,496 --> 00:24:58,888
with new effects.

590
00:24:58,932 --> 00:25:00,673
You're starting to see,
I think,

591
00:25:00,716 --> 00:25:03,197
a lot of the limits
of traditional effects.

592
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,546
So, I've all the time,

593
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:05,895
been sort of pushing
for this stuff to work.

594
00:25:06,635 --> 00:25:08,507
[Scott]
Dennis not only supported

595
00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:11,553
digital technology,
but embraced it and pressed it.

596
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,556
[Mark] He always,
I think, is looking big picture

597
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,645
and understands
how all the elements fit.

598
00:25:17,341 --> 00:25:19,430
He could look at an image,
"It's not working."

599
00:25:19,474 --> 00:25:20,780
He's the kind of guy
that could say

600
00:25:20,823 --> 00:25:22,303
what'll make it work.

601
00:25:22,346 --> 00:25:23,783
And that's a big, big talent.

602
00:25:24,958 --> 00:25:26,437
He's one of the best.

603
00:25:26,481 --> 00:25:28,091
That's why
he's so well respected

604
00:25:28,135 --> 00:25:29,223
and won so many awards.

605
00:25:30,616 --> 00:25:33,314
[Tom] He had the vision
to see where it could go,

606
00:25:33,357 --> 00:25:37,057
but the specifics
of making it go there,

607
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:38,928
as far as the actual doing,

608
00:25:38,972 --> 00:25:40,713
fell, somewhat,
to other people.

609
00:25:41,583 --> 00:25:43,454
You know, hierarchies
being what they are,

610
00:25:43,498 --> 00:25:47,328
at some point you find yourself
now reporting to someone

611
00:25:47,371 --> 00:25:48,808
who knows less than you do

612
00:25:48,851 --> 00:25:51,027
about what it is
that you're doing.

613
00:25:51,854 --> 00:25:54,596
Dennis comes
from a camera background.

614
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,467
He knows that area really well,

615
00:25:56,511 --> 00:25:59,514
but he was relying,
certainly, on us computer geeks

616
00:25:59,558 --> 00:26:01,516
to try
and bolt everything together

617
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,735
and get the shots through.

618
00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:06,739
There's no one person
who can know or do everything

619
00:26:06,782 --> 00:26:10,569
and, so, you have to rely
on people who have expertise.

620
00:26:10,612 --> 00:26:14,007
If you're smart,
you get into that organization,

621
00:26:14,050 --> 00:26:17,097
you play by the rules,
you make connections,

622
00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:19,882
but you have to have
a bit of humility.

623
00:26:20,883 --> 00:26:23,930
[man] The Spaz-Dippé
personality style

624
00:26:23,973 --> 00:26:25,279
I don't think fit.

625
00:26:26,367 --> 00:26:28,325
[Van] They had
more of a punk sensibility.

626
00:26:28,978 --> 00:26:30,371
The way they liked to dress

627
00:26:30,414 --> 00:26:32,242
and the way
they liked to do things

628
00:26:32,286 --> 00:26:35,028
was not the norm at ILM.

629
00:26:35,071 --> 00:26:37,421
There were several times
when they almost got fired

630
00:26:37,465 --> 00:26:39,859
[Van] During the making
of Terminator 2

631
00:26:39,902 --> 00:26:41,991
there was a dinner.

632
00:26:42,513 --> 00:26:44,080
[Mark]
And it's at Skywalker Ranch.

633
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:45,952
The ranch was sort of verboten.

634
00:26:46,517 --> 00:26:49,346
We were sort of,
like, the bastard step-children

635
00:26:49,390 --> 00:26:51,610
that lived on Kerner
and ate at Foodles.

636
00:26:52,654 --> 00:26:55,178
[Steve] Mark and I
are invited to the ranch.

637
00:26:56,092 --> 00:26:58,617
[Mark] We ride our motorcycles
up Skywalker Ranch.

638
00:26:59,226 --> 00:27:01,402
We park them on the front,
like, 25 motorcycles.

639
00:27:02,011 --> 00:27:04,579
This office building
is a house.

640
00:27:04,623 --> 00:27:06,886
[Howard] We went
into the executive dining room.

641
00:27:06,929 --> 00:27:09,149
The food's being served.
These two guys get bored

642
00:27:09,192 --> 00:27:11,107
and they decide
to get up and take a walk.

643
00:27:11,151 --> 00:27:12,848
[Mark] We're just walkin'
around the house.

644
00:27:12,892 --> 00:27:15,329
And then at the very end,
there's a little, like,

645
00:27:15,372 --> 00:27:17,113
sunken den.

646
00:27:17,157 --> 00:27:19,942
They found their way
to George's private sanctum,

647
00:27:19,986 --> 00:27:22,510
the anteroom
to his actual office.

648
00:27:22,553 --> 00:27:24,555
And they walk into the office
and they sit down--

649
00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:27,950
[Tom] Smoking cigars,
into George's liquor cabinet,

650
00:27:27,994 --> 00:27:29,822
feet up on the desk.

651
00:27:29,865 --> 00:27:33,173
[Mark] Now, unbeknownst to us,
everything is alarmed.

652
00:27:33,216 --> 00:27:35,001
They have pressure sensitive
carpets up there.

653
00:27:35,044 --> 00:27:36,698
And all of a sudden,
out of nowhere,

654
00:27:36,742 --> 00:27:39,222
the Skywalker police show up.

655
00:27:39,266 --> 00:27:41,747
Skywalker had their own police
and fire department.

656
00:27:41,790 --> 00:27:43,574
"What's going on here?
Who are you?"

657
00:27:43,618 --> 00:27:45,576
"What are you doing?
You're in George Lucas' office."

658
00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:47,448
They had done the unthinkable!

659
00:27:47,491 --> 00:27:51,408
They had actually gone in
and defouled the chambers!

660
00:27:51,452 --> 00:27:53,541
Spaz says,
"Well, my name is Scott Ross."

661
00:27:54,194 --> 00:27:56,718
Dippé gave his name
as Lincoln Hu,

662
00:27:56,762 --> 00:27:58,807
which caused
a certain amount of chagrin

663
00:27:58,851 --> 00:28:00,591
for the real Lincoln Hu.

664
00:28:00,635 --> 00:28:02,376
Lincoln Hu's one of
the only other Asian guys

665
00:28:02,419 --> 00:28:03,769
I can think of, even though
I'm only half Asian.

666
00:28:03,812 --> 00:28:05,553
[Scott]
And the security guy said,

667
00:28:05,596 --> 00:28:07,555
"We know who Scott Ross is.
What's your name?"

668
00:28:07,598 --> 00:28:10,950
And Spaz says, "You got me,
my name's Ed Jones."

669
00:28:11,515 --> 00:28:13,517
So, the next morning
the call comes in.

670
00:28:13,561 --> 00:28:15,258
"What the hell
did you guys do?"

671
00:28:15,302 --> 00:28:16,869
"We didn't do anything,
we were screwing around!"

672
00:28:16,912 --> 00:28:18,174
"Well, they think
you did something

673
00:28:18,218 --> 00:28:19,785
and you're in deep shit."

674
00:28:19,828 --> 00:28:21,612
I go, "Like what?"
"They want you fired."

675
00:28:21,656 --> 00:28:22,701
"What?"

676
00:28:23,223 --> 00:28:24,920
Doug Norby.

677
00:28:24,964 --> 00:28:26,879
Doug Norby was the head
of Lucas Film at the time.

678
00:28:26,922 --> 00:28:28,358
[Scott]
My arch nemesis.

679
00:28:28,402 --> 00:28:30,143
He calls me on the phone
and he says,

680
00:28:30,186 --> 00:28:33,146
"George is beside himself
and I want you to fire

681
00:28:33,189 --> 00:28:35,148
Lincoln Hu and Ed Jones."

682
00:28:35,191 --> 00:28:36,932
I said, "Well, first of all,
it wasn't Lincoln Hu

683
00:28:36,976 --> 00:28:38,629
and it wasn't Ed Jones,

684
00:28:38,673 --> 00:28:41,023
it was Steve Williams
and it was Mark Dippé."

685
00:28:41,067 --> 00:28:43,112
He says,
"George wants them fired."

686
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,419
I said,
"I can't fire them."

687
00:28:46,115 --> 00:28:47,551
"Listen,
this is what George wants,

688
00:28:47,595 --> 00:28:49,553
-he wants them fired."
-Okay.

689
00:28:49,597 --> 00:28:50,903
Let me just put you
in the picture.

690
00:28:51,381 --> 00:28:53,470
If I fire these two guys,

691
00:28:53,514 --> 00:28:55,168
Jim Cameron

692
00:28:55,211 --> 00:28:58,693
and the entire
Columbia Legal Department

693
00:28:58,737 --> 00:29:01,043
is gonna be in your office
tomorrow

694
00:29:01,087 --> 00:29:04,568
because these two guys
are what makes Terminator 2.

695
00:29:05,613 --> 00:29:08,834
And if I fire the two of them,
the film doesn't get done

696
00:29:08,877 --> 00:29:10,313
and you're gonna be sued.

697
00:29:11,532 --> 00:29:13,099
"Okay,
let me get back to you."

698
00:29:13,142 --> 00:29:15,231
-"Thanks, Doug." Click.
-Damn it! You know?

699
00:29:15,754 --> 00:29:18,321
So, what they had to do
is they had to figure out

700
00:29:18,365 --> 00:29:19,845
how to penalize us.

701
00:29:19,888 --> 00:29:20,802
So, what happened
was we had to sit

702
00:29:20,846 --> 00:29:21,934
on a tribunal.

703
00:29:21,977 --> 00:29:23,500
Me and Mark on one side

704
00:29:23,544 --> 00:29:25,764
and all the head brass
of Lucas Film.

705
00:29:26,373 --> 00:29:28,505
They're asking us
the weirdest fucking questions

706
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:30,116
in the world,
they're going,

707
00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:31,900
"If you're having a party
at your house,

708
00:29:31,944 --> 00:29:34,598
and you see that people
have gone into your bedroom

709
00:29:34,642 --> 00:29:36,296
during the party,
would you be offended?"

710
00:29:36,339 --> 00:29:38,167
I said, "No!
Are you kidding me?"

711
00:29:38,211 --> 00:29:39,516
They're-- I said,
"At my parties,

712
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:40,822
everyone's in the bedroom!"

713
00:29:41,344 --> 00:29:44,695
This-- We-- we-- we--
This is ridiculous.

714
00:29:44,739 --> 00:29:46,959
Mark and I go,
"Look, we'll quit right now."

715
00:29:47,002 --> 00:29:49,570
We said we'll quit.
"Oh, no, no, no."

716
00:29:49,613 --> 00:29:51,180
"They can stay,

717
00:29:51,224 --> 00:29:53,704
but they are banned
from the ranch.

718
00:29:53,748 --> 00:29:56,577
They are no longer allowed
on the ranch."

719
00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:59,841
[man] From that moment on,
they were persona non grata

720
00:29:59,885 --> 00:30:01,625
at the ranch.

721
00:30:01,669 --> 00:30:03,976
[Scott] Lincoln Hu
winds up getting a phone call

722
00:30:04,019 --> 00:30:05,847
and it's Doug Norby.

723
00:30:05,891 --> 00:30:08,676
"I know it wasn't you,
I know it was the other guys

724
00:30:08,719 --> 00:30:10,765
and I'm really sorry
that I used your name,

725
00:30:10,809 --> 00:30:14,290
but I really wanna thank you
for the plate of cookies

726
00:30:14,334 --> 00:30:15,683
that you sent me."

727
00:30:15,726 --> 00:30:17,859
And Lincoln says, "Doug,

728
00:30:17,903 --> 00:30:21,167
I wouldn't eat any of those
cookies if I was you."

729
00:30:21,210 --> 00:30:23,343
[laughing]

730
00:30:23,386 --> 00:30:25,127
[laughing]

731
00:30:25,171 --> 00:30:27,129
I'm Roger Ebert
of theChicago Sun Times.

732
00:30:27,173 --> 00:30:28,914
And I'm Gene Siskel
of theChicago Tribune

733
00:30:28,957 --> 00:30:30,829
and our first film
isTerminator 2.

734
00:30:32,178 --> 00:30:34,136
Thanks to some
truly spectacular

735
00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:35,790
and mystifying
special effects,

736
00:30:35,834 --> 00:30:37,357
this is one terrific
action picture.

737
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,837
I enjoyed it a lot more
than the original.

738
00:30:39,663 --> 00:30:41,013
It hit the press big.

739
00:30:41,578 --> 00:30:43,015
Tons of publicity and stuff.

740
00:30:43,972 --> 00:30:45,104
Accolades.

741
00:30:46,061 --> 00:30:47,889
No one had ever seen
anything like it before.

742
00:30:48,977 --> 00:30:51,284
Mark Dippé and I,
we were like these superstars.

743
00:30:52,241 --> 00:30:54,200
The press was crazy.

744
00:30:54,243 --> 00:30:56,985
Dennis and I did
a Timemagazine article
together

745
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:58,639
and the way it was shown
was like,

746
00:30:58,682 --> 00:31:01,033
uh, the sorcerer
and his young apprentice.

747
00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:04,340
I think Dennis was a supporter
of the idea, but...

748
00:31:05,385 --> 00:31:08,562
you know, he's like--
A-- He was worried.

749
00:31:08,605 --> 00:31:10,042
[Dennis]
I didn't go into this show

750
00:31:10,085 --> 00:31:11,870
relying on CG
to be able to do it.

751
00:31:11,913 --> 00:31:13,610
I had a backup plan.

752
00:31:13,654 --> 00:31:16,352
I was ready at any time
to start pulling out the--

753
00:31:16,396 --> 00:31:19,965
To get the model shop going
and getting the foam beam,

754
00:31:20,008 --> 00:31:21,444
you know,
whipped up, and castings

755
00:31:21,488 --> 00:31:23,142
and everything like that
if we had to

756
00:31:23,185 --> 00:31:25,144
and try, you know,
other techniques to do it.

757
00:31:26,101 --> 00:31:28,364
[Steve] Those guys were working
with limitations.

758
00:31:29,148 --> 00:31:30,714
Technical limitations.

759
00:31:31,454 --> 00:31:33,369
When computer graphics
came along,

760
00:31:34,066 --> 00:31:35,545
we're really trying
to do better

761
00:31:35,589 --> 00:31:36,895
what the guy did before.

762
00:31:38,984 --> 00:31:41,421
[Geoff] Steve really pushed
on everyone.

763
00:31:42,117 --> 00:31:43,466
He knew what we could do

764
00:31:43,510 --> 00:31:44,728
and that we could
push it further.

765
00:31:45,338 --> 00:31:47,209
Maybe that's where
some of the friction came from.

766
00:31:47,818 --> 00:31:49,385
It will be no secret

767
00:31:49,429 --> 00:31:52,867
that Dennis
and Spaz's relationship...

768
00:31:56,305 --> 00:32:00,353
was not always
the friendliest thing.

769
00:32:00,396 --> 00:32:01,963
Oddly enough,
the biggest obstacles

770
00:32:02,007 --> 00:32:04,226
I ran into
were the experts at ILM.

771
00:32:04,270 --> 00:32:07,360
They were the obstacles.
It wasn't the technology.

772
00:32:07,403 --> 00:32:08,752
They were the obstacles.

773
00:32:09,797 --> 00:32:11,494
He was like having
the crazy grandfather

774
00:32:11,538 --> 00:32:13,105
in the room
that was in World War II

775
00:32:13,148 --> 00:32:15,324
and is mumbling stories
about World War II,

776
00:32:15,368 --> 00:32:17,109
but you're supposed
to listen to him

777
00:32:17,152 --> 00:32:18,675
because if you don't, you know,

778
00:32:18,719 --> 00:32:21,504
it's considered
politically incorrect.

779
00:32:21,548 --> 00:32:23,550
[reporter] The big shift
in your time, I guess,

780
00:32:23,593 --> 00:32:24,986
was from optical to digital

781
00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:26,640
and, so,
you went through, what,

782
00:32:26,683 --> 00:32:28,947
a kind of crisis
or a period of learning?

783
00:32:28,990 --> 00:32:30,861
The credit was given
to the person

784
00:32:30,905 --> 00:32:32,994
that actually didn't even
understand how it was done.

785
00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:34,822
The Abyss just looked amazing

786
00:32:34,865 --> 00:32:36,998
and I thought,
"This is gonna work."

787
00:32:37,042 --> 00:32:39,000
And I don't understand it.

788
00:32:39,044 --> 00:32:41,437
This was such a new technology,
he wouldn't have had any clue.

789
00:32:47,356 --> 00:32:51,056
I got that big van Dam
folly book on CG,

790
00:32:51,099 --> 00:32:54,494
I read that just from front
to back over a period of weeks.

791
00:32:59,064 --> 00:33:00,282
[Steve]
After The Abyss,

792
00:33:00,935 --> 00:33:02,719
he got an Oscar for it.

793
00:33:02,763 --> 00:33:04,547
And I'm here
for Industrial Light and Magic

794
00:33:04,591 --> 00:33:06,201
and thanks everybody
who worked on the show

795
00:33:06,245 --> 00:33:08,160
from up there,
John Knoll and, uh,

796
00:33:08,203 --> 00:33:10,249
everyone in the computer
graphics department.

797
00:33:10,292 --> 00:33:12,294
And thanks so much,
especially to Jim Cameron,

798
00:33:12,338 --> 00:33:13,817
my wife, Zara, and Gregory.

799
00:33:13,861 --> 00:33:15,080
Thank you!

800
00:33:15,123 --> 00:33:18,997
[audience applauding]

801
00:33:23,566 --> 00:33:26,700
[cameraman] No, I missed that,
uh, where-- What's this?

802
00:33:26,743 --> 00:33:28,745
[cameraman] For The Abyss?
What-- It looks a little soft.

803
00:33:29,659 --> 00:33:32,793
I think in any environment
like that,

804
00:33:32,836 --> 00:33:36,536
you're gonna have some,
uh, jealousy.

805
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,583
Everybody is jockeying
for a position.

806
00:33:41,541 --> 00:33:43,195
But I don't think,
uh, Steve Williams

807
00:33:43,238 --> 00:33:44,805
was jockeying for anything.

808
00:33:45,458 --> 00:33:47,547
He was not a ladder climber.

809
00:33:48,635 --> 00:33:51,029
He just wanted to have fun
and do his art.

810
00:33:52,030 --> 00:33:55,033
He was the one
actually hands-on creating.

811
00:33:56,338 --> 00:33:59,037
He would work late nights
in the pit.

812
00:33:59,515 --> 00:34:00,995
That's when he would focus
the most

813
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,910
and follow his own instincts.

814
00:34:05,130 --> 00:34:06,957
[Steve] Politically,
you don't see this stuff coming

815
00:34:07,001 --> 00:34:08,698
because you're so engrossed
in what you're doing.

816
00:34:10,526 --> 00:34:12,180
[Adrienne]
There's always been bureaucracy

817
00:34:12,224 --> 00:34:14,095
and red tape and politics

818
00:34:14,139 --> 00:34:17,098
and there were politics at ILM
back in the day, too.

819
00:34:17,664 --> 00:34:19,796
You know,
there was a big man on campus,

820
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:20,884
bigger than Steve.

821
00:34:21,711 --> 00:34:24,932
Won numerous Oscars.

822
00:34:24,975 --> 00:34:27,239
I'd like to thank my mom
and John Berg and Phil Tippett

823
00:34:27,282 --> 00:34:29,067
and Ken
and all the camera department.

824
00:34:29,110 --> 00:34:31,112
And thank you very much
to Mike McAllister, uh,

825
00:34:31,156 --> 00:34:33,332
Mike Pangrazio,
and the math department.

826
00:34:33,375 --> 00:34:35,160
I'd very much like to thank
Bruce Nicholson,

827
00:34:35,203 --> 00:34:37,466
Mike McAllister,
Mike Owens.

828
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:39,164
Well,
thank you to the Academy,

829
00:34:39,207 --> 00:34:41,122
and Steven Spielberg,
George Lucas,

830
00:34:41,166 --> 00:34:43,124
Kathy Kennedy, Frank Marshall,
and Robert Watts.

831
00:34:43,168 --> 00:34:44,865
This is a big thrill.

832
00:34:44,908 --> 00:34:46,649
We'd really like to thank
the Academy,

833
00:34:46,693 --> 00:34:48,477
Joe Dante for doing
his great direction,

834
00:34:48,521 --> 00:34:50,000
Mike Finnell,
of course, Steven Spielberg-

835
00:34:50,044 --> 00:34:51,959
His name was gonna be
at the top,

836
00:34:52,002 --> 00:34:53,439
regardless of all the people
who were working underneath

837
00:34:53,482 --> 00:34:54,614
and there were dozens
and dozens,

838
00:34:54,657 --> 00:34:56,311
Steve was just one of 'em.

839
00:34:56,355 --> 00:34:58,661
Secondly, there's the concept
of, you know,

840
00:34:58,705 --> 00:35:00,663
there's your story,
there's my story,

841
00:35:00,707 --> 00:35:02,100
and there's the story.

842
00:35:02,665 --> 00:35:03,753
I think, you know...

843
00:35:05,146 --> 00:35:08,062
history is written
for the victors.

844
00:35:10,412 --> 00:35:12,632
The Oscar goes to
Dennis Muren,

845
00:35:12,675 --> 00:35:14,851
Stan Winston,
Gene Warren, Jr.,

846
00:35:14,895 --> 00:35:16,375
and Robert Skotak.

847
00:35:16,418 --> 00:35:18,246
Terminator 2:
Judgement Day.

848
00:35:18,290 --> 00:35:22,120
[audience cheering
and applauding]

849
00:35:22,163 --> 00:35:24,470
Thanks to, uh, everyone
at Industrial Light and Magic,

850
00:35:24,513 --> 00:35:27,037
and especially my incredible
computer graphic team.

851
00:35:27,081 --> 00:35:30,737
To Janet Healy, Mark Dippé,
my wife, Zara, Gregory,

852
00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:33,914
and Gwendolyn,
and especially Jim Cameron.

853
00:35:35,524 --> 00:35:39,572
[tense music playing]

854
00:35:44,054 --> 00:35:45,143
[Steve]
He didn't mention me.

855
00:35:47,014 --> 00:35:49,234
I remember I was so mad,
I put my fist through a wall.

856
00:36:08,775 --> 00:36:10,298
I never thought about,
politically,

857
00:36:10,342 --> 00:36:11,734
how to play
this fuckin' chess game.

858
00:36:14,259 --> 00:36:16,348
We were thinking about
creating the art, right?

859
00:36:16,391 --> 00:36:17,566
Creating these ideas.

860
00:36:19,046 --> 00:36:20,526
We weren't thinking about,

861
00:36:20,569 --> 00:36:21,701
"What does
this mean for my future?"

862
00:36:21,744 --> 00:36:25,792
♪

863
00:36:33,626 --> 00:36:35,105
[Adrienne] There's always
gonna be a bigger fish

864
00:36:35,149 --> 00:36:36,194
who's gonna get
the credit.

865
00:36:38,457 --> 00:36:39,936
That's how the game is played.

866
00:36:41,851 --> 00:36:42,939
That's life.

867
00:36:44,767 --> 00:36:46,726
If you wanna stay
in the industry,

868
00:36:46,769 --> 00:36:47,857
you gotta play the game.

869
00:36:51,034 --> 00:36:52,297
Steve didn't play that game.

870
00:36:53,733 --> 00:36:55,996
He didn't know how to.
He didn't want to.

871
00:36:59,695 --> 00:37:00,914
That's why he stood out.

872
00:37:03,569 --> 00:37:05,658
You learn a lot
in an environment like that.

873
00:37:05,701 --> 00:37:07,964
Not just about how to do,

874
00:37:08,008 --> 00:37:11,707
what is, ostensibly, your job,
but how it fits with the rest.

875
00:37:14,449 --> 00:37:17,322
Not everybody really fits
that environment

876
00:37:17,844 --> 00:37:20,586
and you function
within this hierarchy.

877
00:37:21,978 --> 00:37:24,590
This is the sort of
through to the bone moment

878
00:37:24,633 --> 00:37:27,549
where you realize,
"Yes, the game is changing."

879
00:37:34,295 --> 00:37:37,690
[Steve] In June of '91,
this meeting happened

880
00:37:37,733 --> 00:37:40,345
at a place called
Yu Shang across from ILM.

881
00:37:40,997 --> 00:37:42,695
So, Mark Dippé
and I are sitting there

882
00:37:42,738 --> 00:37:45,219
and Dennis Muren's there,
John Schlag's there,

883
00:37:45,263 --> 00:37:48,570
Mike Natkin is there,
Stefen Fangmeier's there.

884
00:37:49,267 --> 00:37:52,008
Muren said Steven Spielberg
is coming up with this new film

885
00:37:52,052 --> 00:37:53,532
based on
Michael Crighton's book

886
00:37:53,575 --> 00:37:54,881
called Jurassic Park.

887
00:37:55,621 --> 00:37:58,754
It's about a bunch of dinosaurs
in a park and it goes awry.

888
00:37:58,798 --> 00:38:00,930
When Jurassicstarted,

889
00:38:00,974 --> 00:38:03,455
there were three
different approaches

890
00:38:03,498 --> 00:38:05,979
in companies
that were going to handle it.

891
00:38:06,022 --> 00:38:09,678
Stan Winston's group would do
the physical creatures,

892
00:38:09,722 --> 00:38:10,897
the close ups.

893
00:38:11,506 --> 00:38:14,335
Phil Tippet's group
would do the medium shots

894
00:38:14,379 --> 00:38:16,642
via stop-motion
where you could see

895
00:38:16,685 --> 00:38:18,470
all the action
of a dinosaur.

896
00:38:19,514 --> 00:38:23,213
And then ILM would do
the far away heard shots.

897
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:25,259
[John]
The long shots.

898
00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:26,826
Oh, they're way over there

899
00:38:26,869 --> 00:38:28,567
and they're only this big
in the frame

900
00:38:28,610 --> 00:38:30,699
and we can get away
with all kinds of cheats.

901
00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:33,354
These are the decisions we made.

902
00:38:33,398 --> 00:38:35,617
Here's where we're going.
This is great.

903
00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:43,669
So, Steve Williams,
Mark Dippé said,

904
00:38:43,712 --> 00:38:45,061
"Why don't we just build
the whole thing

905
00:38:45,105 --> 00:38:46,193
on computer graphics?

906
00:38:46,672 --> 00:38:48,151
Let's just do
the whole thing."

907
00:38:52,895 --> 00:38:54,941
Yeah, that's a tough one, um--

908
00:38:54,984 --> 00:38:56,682
Sure. Yeah, um--

909
00:38:56,725 --> 00:38:59,162
We're all like, uh, okay?

910
00:38:59,206 --> 00:39:00,816
We're ready for this,
we can do this.

911
00:39:00,860 --> 00:39:02,601
-We gotta fuckin' do it.
-Oh, no.

912
00:39:02,644 --> 00:39:04,777
No, no, no, no, no.
Nope. Nope.

913
00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:07,867
Muren, he's just blank.
Like, Orphan Annie eyes.

914
00:39:08,346 --> 00:39:10,870
Fangmeier, he jumped in
right away and said no.

915
00:39:10,913 --> 00:39:13,829
We're in the last stretches
of completing Terminator 2.

916
00:39:13,873 --> 00:39:17,267
We're working 16-hour days,
we're all worn out.

917
00:39:17,311 --> 00:39:19,313
So, I think
we were rather cautious.

918
00:39:19,357 --> 00:39:22,751
The amount of work is so large
and unknowns, so many.

919
00:39:22,795 --> 00:39:25,406
People were being negative.

920
00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:27,974
Now, look,
you've done chrome,

921
00:39:28,017 --> 00:39:29,758
you've done water,

922
00:39:29,802 --> 00:39:31,412
but you've never done anything
living, breathing.

923
00:39:31,456 --> 00:39:34,197
The liquid metal,
poly alloy Terminator

924
00:39:34,241 --> 00:39:36,635
was simpler than a dinosaur.

925
00:39:36,678 --> 00:39:38,506
[Mark] We knew
we'd never done it before.

926
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:39,986
Even The Abyss,
I'd never done that before,

927
00:39:40,029 --> 00:39:41,727
but I said I could do it.

928
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:43,032
T2, same thing,
I'd never done it before,

929
00:39:43,076 --> 00:39:44,556
but I said I could do it.

930
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:46,340
[Jody] Steve Williams
and Mark Dippé

931
00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:48,386
knew that the time
was right.

932
00:39:48,429 --> 00:39:49,648
They could just see it.

933
00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:53,129
The opportunity was there,
they wanted to seize it.

934
00:39:53,173 --> 00:39:56,437
And I think other people
was like "Whoa, that's--

935
00:39:56,481 --> 00:39:58,831
No, we're not going
into this whole new realm."

936
00:40:00,659 --> 00:40:04,140
[John] The powers that be
were just so concerned.

937
00:40:05,054 --> 00:40:06,969
Phil was definitely a nay-sayer
in the beginning.

938
00:40:08,493 --> 00:40:10,320
[Phil]
I kinda felt it was, like...

939
00:40:11,409 --> 00:40:12,453
the Wild West.

940
00:40:13,759 --> 00:40:15,413
These new guys were coming in.

941
00:40:16,109 --> 00:40:18,677
The young gunslingers,
you know,

942
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:22,028
it was like, you know,
I can outdraw you. [laughing]

943
00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:26,554
[Scott] Phil Tippett,
the enfant terrible

944
00:40:26,598 --> 00:40:28,643
of stop motion visual effects.

945
00:40:29,644 --> 00:40:31,080
He'’s the real deal.

946
00:40:31,646 --> 00:40:34,170
[man]
Watching Phil Tippett work,

947
00:40:34,214 --> 00:40:36,216
it was real apparent
real quick

948
00:40:36,259 --> 00:40:37,913
that he was
one of those magic people.

949
00:40:40,133 --> 00:40:41,961
When you have
that much talent

950
00:40:42,004 --> 00:40:44,006
and you have
that much knowledge

951
00:40:44,050 --> 00:40:46,313
and you have
that much work discipline,

952
00:40:46,356 --> 00:40:49,795
it makes you
a sort of super,

953
00:40:49,838 --> 00:40:51,144
uber effects geek.

954
00:40:51,927 --> 00:40:53,189
And that was Phil.

955
00:40:54,843 --> 00:40:56,889
[Jody] Phil Tippett
and Dennis Muren both worked

956
00:40:56,932 --> 00:41:00,936
at Cascade at the early parts
of their careers.

957
00:41:00,980 --> 00:41:04,462
They worked on Dragon Slayer
together in 1981.

958
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,595
They'’d had a long relationship.

959
00:41:08,988 --> 00:41:11,338
[man] Right from the start,
Dennis was in the position

960
00:41:11,381 --> 00:41:13,296
of having people that he knew

961
00:41:13,340 --> 00:41:15,603
that he wanted to make sure
they were a part of the mix.

962
00:41:17,213 --> 00:41:19,128
Steve knew what we could do,

963
00:41:19,172 --> 00:41:20,390
and that
we could push it further.

964
00:41:21,566 --> 00:41:24,569
[Phil] I perceived
just a slight amount of,

965
00:41:24,612 --> 00:41:27,223
you know,
competition on their side,

966
00:41:27,267 --> 00:41:29,574
you know,
needing to prove themselves.

967
00:41:29,617 --> 00:41:31,271
[Steve]
That'’s why Phil got mad.

968
00:41:31,314 --> 00:41:33,186
Because we were trying
to do a stop-motion film

969
00:41:33,229 --> 00:41:34,492
using computer graphics.

970
00:41:35,188 --> 00:41:36,842
[Mark]
He led the camp that

971
00:41:36,885 --> 00:41:38,626
that is the wrong road
to go down.

972
00:41:39,975 --> 00:41:41,586
I think from
Dennis'’ point of view,

973
00:41:41,629 --> 00:41:42,804
he was worried.

974
00:41:43,762 --> 00:41:45,590
He'’s, like,
"“Dude, this is a lot different

975
00:41:45,633 --> 00:41:47,026
than liquid metal."”

976
00:41:47,069 --> 00:41:49,115
And then Phil was like,

977
00:41:49,158 --> 00:41:51,770
"“Computer animation,
that'’s the wrong approach."”

978
00:41:52,858 --> 00:41:55,817
The stop-motion footage
was the selected solution.

979
00:41:55,861 --> 00:41:58,733
Full-scale
animatronics with Stan Winston.

980
00:41:58,777 --> 00:42:00,909
That was the approach
that was agreed upon

981
00:42:00,953 --> 00:42:02,520
and that was the road
they were going down.

982
00:42:03,129 --> 00:42:04,826
[Steve]
Everything had been assigned.

983
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:06,524
Stan'’s doing this,
Phil'’s doing this,

984
00:42:06,567 --> 00:42:07,612
Stan'’s doing this
and that'’s it.

985
00:42:08,090 --> 00:42:09,570
This is the technology
we are using.

986
00:42:09,614 --> 00:42:11,354
There is no room
for a new technology.

987
00:42:19,537 --> 00:42:21,408
There was something
about being told no,

988
00:42:21,451 --> 00:42:25,281
um, you know,
if you'’re rebellious,

989
00:42:25,325 --> 00:42:28,981
you know, "no" is actually
really, um, a fuel for you.

990
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:33,115
[Douglas] He took it
upon himself to just prove it

991
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:36,292
and the only way
to prove that is to show it.

992
00:42:36,336 --> 00:42:39,121
Steve, Spaz,
starts by making a skeleton.

993
00:42:42,255 --> 00:42:44,518
[Steve] I literally did
exactly what I did

994
00:42:44,562 --> 00:42:47,260
with the T-Rex
that I did with the T-1000.

995
00:42:48,348 --> 00:42:50,002
I just built the bones.

996
00:42:50,829 --> 00:42:54,136
I built the damn thing,
secretly, on my own time.

997
00:42:55,224 --> 00:42:57,009
It was a complete act
of rebellion.

998
00:42:58,793 --> 00:43:00,447
I think one of the reasons
they tried to stop

999
00:43:00,490 --> 00:43:02,231
that type of innovation
is because

1000
00:43:02,275 --> 00:43:04,625
the visual effects gurus
who didn'’t theorize it,

1001
00:43:04,669 --> 00:43:07,323
would be seen
as having egg on their face.

1002
00:43:08,498 --> 00:43:09,935
I just believed we could do it.

1003
00:43:11,414 --> 00:43:12,851
But actually having to prove it,

1004
00:43:13,634 --> 00:43:14,853
that was the challenge.

1005
00:43:15,593 --> 00:43:16,724
Because it was all about proof.

1006
00:43:18,117 --> 00:43:19,771
I remember
Dennis Muren, actually,

1007
00:43:19,814 --> 00:43:22,121
he had heard a rumor
from one of his little

1008
00:43:22,164 --> 00:43:23,862
weaselly minions
that I was building

1009
00:43:23,905 --> 00:43:25,080
a set of T-Rex bones.

1010
00:43:25,907 --> 00:43:27,605
He told me, to my face,

1011
00:43:29,171 --> 00:43:31,434
"Don'’t bother trying to build
the T-Rex."

1012
00:43:32,305 --> 00:43:33,523
Phil'’s doing it.

1013
00:43:34,873 --> 00:43:36,265
[Dennis] I was saying,
"Guys, don'’t do this,

1014
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:38,050
"you know,
Phil-- Phil'’s my buddy,

1015
00:43:38,093 --> 00:43:39,878
he'’s got the job
for everything else, you know?

1016
00:43:39,921 --> 00:43:41,749
And just let this play out."

1017
00:43:41,793 --> 00:43:43,577
That'’s what he said.
That'’s what he said.

1018
00:43:43,621 --> 00:43:44,970
And he hadn'’t seen
anything yet.

1019
00:43:47,712 --> 00:43:51,629
I don'’t worry
about hardly anything, ever.

1020
00:43:54,762 --> 00:43:56,068
Although...

1021
00:43:57,156 --> 00:43:58,984
you know, I'’ve got this anxiety

1022
00:43:59,027 --> 00:44:01,203
that'’s like
the sword of Damocles

1023
00:44:01,247 --> 00:44:02,770
that'’s hanging over my head.

1024
00:44:04,729 --> 00:44:06,426
Sometimes, I just feel like

1025
00:44:07,209 --> 00:44:08,515
something terrible''’s
gonna happen.

1026
00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:13,607
Steve Williams, uh,

1027
00:44:13,651 --> 00:44:17,219
on his own, put together
a Tyrannosaurus skeleton

1028
00:44:17,263 --> 00:44:19,352
and did a walk cycle.

1029
00:44:20,614 --> 00:44:25,880
♪

1030
00:44:30,580 --> 00:44:33,801
I don'’t think
we fully realized...

1031
00:44:35,368 --> 00:44:36,543
how...

1032
00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:41,026
that was going
to change everything.

1033
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:43,332
[Steve] It was all secret,
no one knew about it.

1034
00:44:44,943 --> 00:44:46,901
There was a big meeting
that was going to happen.

1035
00:44:47,772 --> 00:44:49,425
Kathleen Kennedy,

1036
00:44:49,469 --> 00:44:52,385
Frank Marshall, Dennis Muren,
and Janet Healy.

1037
00:44:53,255 --> 00:44:55,301
[Schlag]
Janet Healy is the producer,

1038
00:44:55,344 --> 00:44:58,260
Dennis Muren is the visual
effects supervisor.

1039
00:44:58,304 --> 00:45:01,133
I looked at it as, like,
"Oh, this is mom and dad."

1040
00:45:01,176 --> 00:45:02,438
They'’re in charge.

1041
00:45:03,831 --> 00:45:06,312
I didn''’t know when the
entourage
was gonna come up,

1042
00:45:06,355 --> 00:45:07,879
but I knew
they were coming up eventually,

1043
00:45:07,922 --> 00:45:09,924
so I got wind of it.

1044
00:45:09,968 --> 00:45:12,579
Frank and Kathy had come in
because Steven couldn'’t come in.

1045
00:45:14,015 --> 00:45:17,062
[man] Kathleen Kennedy was
Steven Spielberg'’s producer.

1046
00:45:17,105 --> 00:45:19,238
[Steve] Kathleen Kennedy,
Frank Marshall,

1047
00:45:19,281 --> 00:45:21,762
they were gonna come walking in
on a Monday morning

1048
00:45:21,806 --> 00:45:23,808
in November in 1991.

1049
00:45:23,851 --> 00:45:25,505
[Geoff] And I guess
the hard part of that

1050
00:45:25,548 --> 00:45:27,159
was he had to find
a way to get that

1051
00:45:27,202 --> 00:45:29,465
in front of Kathleen Kennedy.

1052
00:45:30,423 --> 00:45:31,772
And he found a way to do that.

1053
00:45:32,860 --> 00:45:34,819
[Steve]
This was not supposed to happen.

1054
00:45:36,255 --> 00:45:38,474
Dennis and Janet, they didn'’t
know it was gonna happen.

1055
00:45:40,172 --> 00:45:41,956
I had a playing on a monitor,

1056
00:45:42,827 --> 00:45:44,654
and everyone came walking in.

1057
00:45:45,830 --> 00:45:47,919
She immediately
sees it right away.

1058
00:45:49,050 --> 00:45:50,269
and she goes, "“What'’s this?"”

1059
00:45:51,879 --> 00:45:53,228
I said,
"“Well, I was just working on

1060
00:45:53,272 --> 00:45:55,448
this walking T-Rex bone thing."”

1061
00:45:59,234 --> 00:46:01,149
Kathleen Kennedy pats me
on the back and goes,

1062
00:46:01,193 --> 00:46:03,238
"“You have a very bright future."”
And that was that.

1063
00:46:04,022 --> 00:46:05,980
That'’s the first
and only time I ever met her.

1064
00:46:06,415 --> 00:46:08,069
I never-- never saw her again.

1065
00:46:09,114 --> 00:46:10,985
That'’s where everything changed.

1066
00:46:11,029 --> 00:46:13,814
Dennis Muren said, "Okay,
this is really interesting.

1067
00:46:13,858 --> 00:46:15,642
[Dennis] I didn'’t know
how close we could get.

1068
00:46:15,685 --> 00:46:17,905
And then eventually
some of the guys did some tests

1069
00:46:17,949 --> 00:46:19,994
on a T-Rex
which came out really great

1070
00:46:20,038 --> 00:46:23,258
and surprised everybody
and then we skinned that.

1071
00:46:23,302 --> 00:46:25,434
All we had at this time was
a skeleton and we were going,

1072
00:46:25,478 --> 00:46:27,219
-"We can do it!"
-Stan Winston is gonna set up

1073
00:46:27,262 --> 00:46:29,525
a five-foot model.
Mark and I cut it up into bits

1074
00:46:30,135 --> 00:46:33,747
and we put it in a cyborg
scanner and scan all the pieces.

1075
00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:35,575
I have to reconstruct

1076
00:46:35,618 --> 00:46:37,838
all the data to have
the proper contour muscles.

1077
00:46:38,491 --> 00:46:41,146
I built the skin version
of the T-Rex.

1078
00:46:41,624 --> 00:46:42,974
It was all working.

1079
00:46:43,409 --> 00:46:45,715
[man] ILM, you know,
largely through Steve Williams,

1080
00:46:45,759 --> 00:46:48,196
Mark Dippé, and, uh,
Stefen Fangmeier

1081
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,459
put together
the first dinosaur tests.

1082
00:46:50,503 --> 00:46:52,287
[Michael] The film couldn'’t
have happened without them.

1083
00:46:52,331 --> 00:46:53,811
It certainly
couldn'’t have happened

1084
00:46:53,854 --> 00:46:55,725
without Steve'’s
ability to model,

1085
00:46:55,769 --> 00:46:57,162
uh, first the Terminator
and then later the dinosaurs.

1086
00:46:57,205 --> 00:46:58,641
[Stefen]
The film, at the same time,

1087
00:46:58,685 --> 00:47:00,339
also was very much
still on track

1088
00:47:00,382 --> 00:47:02,167
to do, uh, stop-motion.

1089
00:47:02,907 --> 00:47:05,083
Back then,
everything that we did

1090
00:47:05,126 --> 00:47:06,519
hadn'’t been done before.

1091
00:47:06,562 --> 00:47:07,694
I mean, certainly,
nobody attempted

1092
00:47:07,737 --> 00:47:09,522
to do dinosaurs before.

1093
00:47:09,565 --> 00:47:14,179
They made a convincing
computer graphic Tyrannosaurus.

1094
00:47:15,267 --> 00:47:17,356
[Steve]
The first fully skinned version.

1095
00:47:17,878 --> 00:47:19,749
And we had it walkin'’.
In daylight.

1096
00:47:20,489 --> 00:47:23,449
Then Dennis and Janet
with Tippett went down

1097
00:47:23,492 --> 00:47:25,843
to Universal to show it
to Steven Spielberg,

1098
00:47:26,626 --> 00:47:27,888
but I wasn'’t
allowed to be there.

1099
00:47:28,802 --> 00:47:30,586
I got a call from Dennis Muren
at ILM,

1100
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:32,284
who already had the job

1101
00:47:32,327 --> 00:47:33,807
of doing Jurassic Park
with Phil Tippett.

1102
00:47:33,851 --> 00:47:35,504
And Dennis said
that he thought

1103
00:47:35,548 --> 00:47:38,551
that he could
pull off a full-sized dinosaur

1104
00:47:38,594 --> 00:47:40,858
that would be authentic
to the eye.

1105
00:47:40,901 --> 00:47:42,903
Spielberg suddenly went
absolutely insane

1106
00:47:42,947 --> 00:47:45,297
and said everything was gonna
be computer graphics now.

1107
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,081
[Steven]
That'’s the future.

1108
00:47:48,039 --> 00:47:50,737
That'’s the way
it'’s gonna be from now on.

1109
00:47:55,481 --> 00:47:57,265
[dinosaur roaring]

1110
00:47:57,309 --> 00:47:59,311
[Jurassic Park
theme song playing]

1111
00:47:59,354 --> 00:48:02,531
[dinosaur roaring]

1112
00:48:14,804 --> 00:48:17,590
[Jody] That first
shot of the Brachiosaurus...

1113
00:48:19,244 --> 00:48:21,681
my jaw dropped,
I had literally--

1114
00:48:21,724 --> 00:48:24,031
[dinosaur roaring]

1115
00:48:27,774 --> 00:48:29,689
And then that wide reveal

1116
00:48:29,732 --> 00:48:31,560
of them all out there
on the plain.

1117
00:48:31,604 --> 00:48:33,649
♪

1118
00:48:37,305 --> 00:48:39,481
That'’s still the one
that gets my heart.

1119
00:48:43,746 --> 00:48:45,661
[Howard] I swear to God,
it looked like

1120
00:48:45,705 --> 00:48:47,620
National Geographic went back
in a time machine

1121
00:48:47,663 --> 00:48:49,665
and shot real dinosaurs,
and that'’s what I fucking saw.

1122
00:48:49,709 --> 00:48:53,582
Those things looked real
and what they were representing

1123
00:48:53,626 --> 00:48:55,541
was not some sci-fi thing.

1124
00:48:56,846 --> 00:48:58,892
As far as we know,
those things moved around

1125
00:48:58,936 --> 00:49:00,459
like that and that'’s what
they looked like,

1126
00:49:00,502 --> 00:49:02,809
that'’s what they did.

1127
00:49:02,852 --> 00:49:05,203
Jurassic Park took
everybody by surprise.

1128
00:49:05,246 --> 00:49:06,726
Nobody saw that one coming.

1129
00:49:07,814 --> 00:49:10,773
For almost 75 years,
the technology

1130
00:49:10,817 --> 00:49:14,168
and the techniques
were pretty much the same.

1131
00:49:14,212 --> 00:49:17,258
Jurassic, that'’s when
the computers came in.

1132
00:49:20,348 --> 00:49:22,481
That'’s when the tsunami hit.

1133
00:49:24,048 --> 00:49:26,006
[reporter]
Jurassic Park opened tonight

1134
00:49:26,050 --> 00:49:29,009
with predictions that it may be
the biggest hit in years and,

1135
00:49:29,053 --> 00:49:30,663
like any great event,

1136
00:49:30,706 --> 00:49:32,447
people are camped out
to be part of it.

1137
00:49:32,491 --> 00:49:34,232
We got here
about 11 o'’clock this morning.

1138
00:49:34,275 --> 00:49:35,755
[reporter] 11:00
this morning for what show?

1139
00:49:35,798 --> 00:49:38,018
Uh, the 10:45 tomorrow morning.

1140
00:49:38,062 --> 00:49:42,022
[man] That was the turning
point of visual filmmaking.

1141
00:49:42,066 --> 00:49:43,893
[reporter]
People, especially kids,

1142
00:49:43,937 --> 00:49:46,026
- like dinosaurs.
-[announcer] Jurassic Park!

1143
00:49:46,070 --> 00:49:47,854
Where the giant dinosaurs
live again!

1144
00:49:47,897 --> 00:49:49,464
With all the excitement

1145
00:49:49,508 --> 00:49:51,162
-of the movie!
-[kid] Dino damage!

1146
00:49:51,205 --> 00:49:52,685
[announcer]
Only at Jurassic Park!

1147
00:49:53,947 --> 00:49:56,602
[Steve] The film was supposed
to be a stop-motion film.

1148
00:49:57,646 --> 00:49:59,344
Computer graphics came in

1149
00:49:59,387 --> 00:50:01,476
and completely deposed
all of it.

1150
00:50:02,956 --> 00:50:05,132
It destroyed one thing,
but it begat another.

1151
00:50:06,481 --> 00:50:08,701
I had come up
with this test that--

1152
00:50:08,744 --> 00:50:11,138
It seemed it revolutionized
everything.

1153
00:50:11,182 --> 00:50:13,836
The call came down--
Dennis called me at home

1154
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,796
and said, "I'’m afraid
I have some bad news.

1155
00:50:16,839 --> 00:50:20,017
Steven'’s decided
to do the whole show CG

1156
00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:22,236
and I-- You know,
like the Bombay doors just,

1157
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,500
[makes crashing sound
& screams]

1158
00:50:25,544 --> 00:50:27,111
You know, I saw,
you know, like,

1159
00:50:27,154 --> 00:50:29,026
the-- the end and I--
"Oh, shit,

1160
00:50:29,069 --> 00:50:30,723
now what am I gonna do?

1161
00:50:30,766 --> 00:50:32,594
I thought, because
I was animation supervisor

1162
00:50:32,638 --> 00:50:36,337
on, um, Terminator 2,
which is very successful,

1163
00:50:36,381 --> 00:50:37,904
you know, I was gonna be

1164
00:50:37,947 --> 00:50:38,818
animation supervisor
on Jurassic.

1165
00:50:40,472 --> 00:50:42,648
I literally ambushed them
with the image.

1166
00:50:42,691 --> 00:50:44,563
I thought,
"How much more can I do

1167
00:50:44,606 --> 00:50:46,608
to actually to prove
that I came up with the idea?"

1168
00:50:47,522 --> 00:50:49,872
I thought for sure
it was a slam dunk.

1169
00:50:51,309 --> 00:50:52,919
There was no definition

1170
00:50:52,962 --> 00:50:54,964
about what the jobs were
on Jurassic Park.

1171
00:50:55,791 --> 00:50:57,532
So, I asked Janet Healy,

1172
00:50:57,576 --> 00:50:58,881
I said, "“Well, you know,
what'’s goin' on?

1173
00:50:58,925 --> 00:51:00,666
What'’s my position?"”

1174
00:51:00,709 --> 00:51:02,537
"“You'’re just an animator
on the film."”

1175
00:51:02,581 --> 00:51:05,497
"“What? Who'’s
the animation supervisor?"”

1176
00:51:08,891 --> 00:51:10,589
[Phil] Dennis,
in all of his brilliance,

1177
00:51:11,633 --> 00:51:13,679
he has a plan B. [laughs]

1178
00:51:23,210 --> 00:51:24,690
[Steven]
Phil Tippett wanted to actually

1179
00:51:24,733 --> 00:51:26,822
do storyboards
three dimensionally

1180
00:51:26,866 --> 00:51:30,174
with little figures
of dinosaurs and people

1181
00:51:30,217 --> 00:51:33,002
that would completely imitate
my storyboards,

1182
00:51:33,046 --> 00:51:36,310
but flesh out my storyboards
and give them dimension.

1183
00:51:36,354 --> 00:51:38,138
[Phil]
Storyboards don'’t show you

1184
00:51:38,182 --> 00:51:40,749
any of the-- the temporal
cadence, the sequence,

1185
00:51:40,793 --> 00:51:44,318
the timing of it and, uh,
the animatics allowed us

1186
00:51:44,362 --> 00:51:48,017
to-- to block out the entire,
you know, sequence.

1187
00:51:49,715 --> 00:51:52,544
[man] Phil was able
to turn himself

1188
00:51:52,587 --> 00:51:54,502
into the director
of the CGI dinosaurs.

1189
00:51:54,546 --> 00:51:57,940
He knew so much about dinosaurs
and the behavior of animals.

1190
00:51:57,984 --> 00:51:59,899
I go into dailies
at 8:00 AM

1191
00:51:59,942 --> 00:52:02,815
and there'’s Phil Tippett,
who'’s now functioning

1192
00:52:02,858 --> 00:52:05,339
as the animation director
for Jurassic Park.

1193
00:52:09,082 --> 00:52:12,781
Wow! And the Oscar goes to...

1194
00:52:12,825 --> 00:52:15,436
Dennis Muren, Stan Winston,
Phil Tippett,

1195
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,222
and Michael Lantieri
for Jurassic Park !

1196
00:52:18,265 --> 00:52:19,745
♪

1197
00:52:31,931 --> 00:52:33,324
[crosstalk]

1198
00:52:33,367 --> 00:52:35,152
Thanks, ILM.
Thanks, Tippet Studios.

1199
00:52:35,195 --> 00:52:37,328
Thanks, Steven Spielberg.
Thanks Mike--

1200
00:52:37,371 --> 00:52:41,767
[overlapping thanks]

1201
00:52:54,345 --> 00:52:56,564
[Steve]
I'’ve always believed the people

1202
00:52:56,608 --> 00:52:59,437
that worked on the work
should be acknowledged for it.

1203
00:53:01,265 --> 00:53:04,746
Any time an individual
took an award

1204
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:07,793
and took the award home
and took the accolades for it,

1205
00:53:07,836 --> 00:53:09,447
to me, it was theft.

1206
00:53:11,405 --> 00:53:13,538
ILM had won
14 Oscars at that time.

1207
00:53:15,757 --> 00:53:17,629
Not one of ''‘em were at ILM.

1208
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:20,675
Not one!

1209
00:53:22,242 --> 00:53:24,201
So, these guys had
the audacity

1210
00:53:24,244 --> 00:53:27,029
to actually take this piece
of shit home with them

1211
00:53:27,073 --> 00:53:29,989
when it was representing
30 or 40 people.

1212
00:53:31,817 --> 00:53:33,297
Regardless of what they do...

1213
00:53:34,298 --> 00:53:36,735
this is what
their credit is on the film.

1214
00:53:36,778 --> 00:53:38,215
And if it wins an Oscar

1215
00:53:38,258 --> 00:53:39,520
for visual effects,
they get it.

1216
00:53:42,088 --> 00:53:43,350
That'’s the way it works.

1217
00:53:44,656 --> 00:53:46,223
If you point
to any one person

1218
00:53:46,266 --> 00:53:48,050
it couldn'’t have
been done without 'em,

1219
00:53:48,094 --> 00:53:49,878
it probably is Steve,
''‘cause I don'’t know

1220
00:53:49,922 --> 00:53:51,706
that anybody else could'’ve
modeled those dinosaurs,

1221
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:53,230
I don'’t know
that anybody else could'’ve set

1222
00:53:53,273 --> 00:53:54,535
the standards
for animating them.

1223
00:53:54,579 --> 00:53:55,754
I don'’t know
that we would'’ve even tried.

1224
00:53:59,845 --> 00:54:00,933
[Steve]
I'’m not a diplomat.

1225
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:03,718
I never have been.

1226
00:54:05,416 --> 00:54:07,766
To a fault,
I'’ve been a very bad diplomat.

1227
00:54:10,116 --> 00:54:12,292
I'’m not political,
I'’m not political,

1228
00:54:12,336 --> 00:54:14,294
I've--
I'’ve never been political.

1229
00:54:14,338 --> 00:54:16,122
Right? I'’m not good at it.

1230
00:54:16,165 --> 00:54:17,471
You know, I-- Look at me,
for fuck'’s sakes,

1231
00:54:17,515 --> 00:54:18,820
man, I look like
fuckin'’ Popeye.

1232
00:54:18,864 --> 00:54:20,518
You know? Fuck.

1233
00:54:20,561 --> 00:54:22,563
After Jurassic,
I did a bunch of interviews

1234
00:54:22,607 --> 00:54:24,696
and stuff like that and I told
the truth about what happened.

1235
00:54:24,739 --> 00:54:26,611
The entire film
ofJurassic was--

1236
00:54:26,654 --> 00:54:27,786
[reporter]
This is Jurassic Park?

1237
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:28,961
Right.

1238
00:54:37,491 --> 00:54:39,058
[Steve]
I was told not to do it

1239
00:54:39,101 --> 00:54:40,842
by my supervisors and I did it,
you know?

1240
00:54:40,886 --> 00:54:42,366
I built it.

1241
00:54:42,931 --> 00:54:44,585
Dennis Muren
got mad at me a few times.

1242
00:54:45,282 --> 00:54:48,372
He pulled me into
his office and he said,

1243
00:54:48,415 --> 00:54:50,243
"I don'’t know
why you'’re saying all this."

1244
00:54:50,287 --> 00:54:52,201
And then I said, "Well, Dennis,
this is what happened."

1245
00:54:52,245 --> 00:54:55,030
And he goes, "You'’re committing
political suicide."

1246
00:54:55,074 --> 00:54:56,684
That'’s what he told me.

1247
00:54:56,728 --> 00:54:58,686
[news anchor]
Steve Williams foresees the day

1248
00:54:58,730 --> 00:55:01,341
when it will be commonplace
for computer generated actors

1249
00:55:01,385 --> 00:55:04,257
to star alongside
real actors.

1250
00:55:04,301 --> 00:55:06,215
I think that you'’ll have
characters acting

1251
00:55:06,259 --> 00:55:09,436
with current famous people, um,
that are computer generated,

1252
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,264
but you'’ll also be able
to introduce characters

1253
00:55:11,308 --> 00:55:14,006
that have been dead
for 50 or 60 years.

1254
00:55:14,049 --> 00:55:15,877
In the future, I mean, it'’s
quite obvious what'’ll happen.

1255
00:55:15,921 --> 00:55:18,489
It will actually scan the actor
in a polygonal data set

1256
00:55:18,532 --> 00:55:19,794
of computer generated data--

1257
00:55:19,838 --> 00:55:21,840
Are they worried
about this?

1258
00:55:21,883 --> 00:55:23,624
-If I was an actor I'’d, uh--
-[Steve] Actually, SAG,

1259
00:55:23,668 --> 00:55:25,322
the Screen Actors Guild,
is very interested in it.

1260
00:55:25,365 --> 00:55:27,193
[man] Are actors right
to have concerns

1261
00:55:27,236 --> 00:55:28,629
that they'’ll eventually
be phased out all together?

1262
00:55:28,673 --> 00:55:30,805
This will be abused
and-- and--

1263
00:55:30,849 --> 00:55:32,633
and the trick is
for all of us to stand up

1264
00:55:32,677 --> 00:55:34,331
and say,
"No, that'’s wrong,

1265
00:55:34,374 --> 00:55:35,767
This is a violation,

1266
00:55:35,810 --> 00:55:37,595
this is not
what we should be doing.

1267
00:55:37,638 --> 00:55:39,727
Synthetic actors are inevitable,
there'’s no doubt.

1268
00:55:39,771 --> 00:55:41,425
We'’re talking about
the morals!

1269
00:55:41,468 --> 00:55:42,948
This is unfortunately
what'’s happening.

1270
00:55:42,991 --> 00:55:44,993
To be human is to bleed,

1271
00:55:45,037 --> 00:55:46,995
is to have a soul,
is to breathe.

1272
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:48,954
See-- see, we'’re not trying
to duplicate human beings,

1273
00:55:48,997 --> 00:55:51,173
but what you'’re seeing
is subjective already.

1274
00:55:51,217 --> 00:55:52,914
How many times
have you met an actor

1275
00:55:52,958 --> 00:55:54,916
who'’s either shorter
or smaller in person?

1276
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,875
So, what you'’re seeing
is already an "interpretation"

1277
00:55:56,918 --> 00:55:59,094
-of what they look like.
-[man] Absolutely.

1278
00:55:59,138 --> 00:56:01,140
-This is what we'’re trying--
-[host] We'’re down

1279
00:56:01,183 --> 00:56:02,750
-to our last two minutes.
-[Thomas] Good afternoon,

1280
00:56:02,794 --> 00:56:04,273
my name is Thomas White,
I handle Artists' Rights

1281
00:56:04,317 --> 00:56:05,884
Enforcement Matters
for the estate

1282
00:56:05,927 --> 00:56:07,320
of Fred Astaire,
the estate of Orson Welles,

1283
00:56:07,364 --> 00:56:08,800
and the director,
Stanley Kramer.

1284
00:56:08,843 --> 00:56:10,671
All uses from my clients
get licensed.

1285
00:56:10,715 --> 00:56:12,412
If they don'’t get licensed,
they get prosecuted.

1286
00:56:12,456 --> 00:56:13,979
-It'’s that simple.
-[man] Good.

1287
00:56:14,022 --> 00:56:16,416
And the damages--
the damages that we seek

1288
00:56:16,460 --> 00:56:18,897
and the attorney's fees
are extraordinarily high.

1289
00:56:18,940 --> 00:56:21,334
Thank you all very much
and I think we'’re done.

1290
00:56:21,378 --> 00:56:23,380
[applause]

1291
00:56:23,423 --> 00:56:25,469
[Steve] They all denied
what we were doing.

1292
00:56:26,121 --> 00:56:28,167
And, to me, that'’s a fight.

1293
00:56:29,342 --> 00:56:31,039
You wanna fuckin'’
get in a fight, man?

1294
00:56:31,083 --> 00:56:32,563
You wanna fuckin'’ drop
the gloves?

1295
00:56:32,606 --> 00:56:34,303
You wanna go? Let'’s go.

1296
00:56:34,347 --> 00:56:36,088
[rock music playing]

1297
00:56:36,131 --> 00:56:38,873
[screaming]

1298
00:56:38,917 --> 00:56:40,788
When it comes to
special effects

1299
00:56:40,832 --> 00:56:43,008
in the movies today,
the question really isn'’t

1300
00:56:43,051 --> 00:56:46,925
what can they do, the question
is what can'’t they do?

1301
00:56:46,968 --> 00:56:49,362
For the most part, I like having
fun and having a good laugh.

1302
00:56:49,406 --> 00:56:51,146
Cartoons are what
got me into this thing.

1303
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:53,279
[anchor] Animation supervisor
Steve Williams,

1304
00:56:53,322 --> 00:56:55,716
whose credits include
The Abyss and Jurassic Park

1305
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,240
has been a cartoon buff
all his life.

1306
00:56:58,284 --> 00:57:02,114
[Steve] After Jurassic,
I just didn'’t give a crap.

1307
00:57:02,157 --> 00:57:03,724
Everybody can go
fuck themselves.

1308
00:57:04,943 --> 00:57:07,075
These are the fuckin'’
good days, man.

1309
00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:10,949
[Adrienne]
He was uncontrollable.

1310
00:57:10,992 --> 00:57:15,954
This masculine, tough guy
that could not be harnessed.

1311
00:57:16,563 --> 00:57:19,131
That was kinda my first
experience working with him.

1312
00:57:19,784 --> 00:57:22,134
When you are in Steve'’s orbit,

1313
00:57:22,961 --> 00:57:26,443
it was like you were
in the spotlight with him.

1314
00:57:27,792 --> 00:57:30,751
You knew if you were
gonna be in his company

1315
00:57:30,795 --> 00:57:33,928
that you were gonna feel like
the queen of the world.

1316
00:57:35,495 --> 00:57:37,628
We grew to fall in love
with each other.

1317
00:57:38,977 --> 00:57:42,459
We started a relationship
that was very intense.

1318
00:57:43,024 --> 00:57:46,767
We wanted to start a family
and I moved up to Marin

1319
00:57:46,811 --> 00:57:49,509
from the city and it was like
boom, boom, boom.

1320
00:57:49,553 --> 00:57:51,468
[Steve] I'’m starting the clock.
It'’s supposed to be--

1321
00:57:51,511 --> 00:57:53,078
[Adrienne]
I'’m totally shaking.

1322
00:57:53,121 --> 00:57:54,645
[Steve] It's supposed
to be two minutes.

1323
00:57:54,688 --> 00:57:55,776
[Adrienne] Okay,
I just peed on that thing.

1324
00:57:55,820 --> 00:57:57,343
It'’s fucking pink!

1325
00:57:57,386 --> 00:57:58,910
[Steve]
I know, I don'’t believe it!

1326
00:57:58,953 --> 00:58:00,085
[Adrienne]
I think you did it.

1327
00:58:00,128 --> 00:58:01,695
You big stud!

1328
00:58:01,739 --> 00:58:03,480
You big stud!
You did it!

1329
00:58:03,523 --> 00:58:05,046
[Steve]
We never got married.

1330
00:58:05,090 --> 00:58:07,005
We'’re gonna be
like hippies, man.

1331
00:58:07,048 --> 00:58:09,094
Not get married and have a kid,
and it was great, you know?

1332
00:58:11,879 --> 00:58:13,925
Hannah came along
and that was a new world,

1333
00:58:13,968 --> 00:58:15,187
that'’s for sure.

1334
00:58:16,971 --> 00:58:19,278
You think you know it all,
but this door gets opened.

1335
00:58:20,584 --> 00:58:21,628
Fatherhood.

1336
00:58:22,499 --> 00:58:24,762
What do you got, Hannah?
Tell me about your new car.

1337
00:58:24,805 --> 00:58:26,633
Um, I don'’t want to.

1338
00:58:26,677 --> 00:58:28,505
[Steve] Okay, are you gonna
take it for a drive now?

1339
00:58:34,598 --> 00:58:36,469
[Hannah]
It'’s really easy to hold on

1340
00:58:36,513 --> 00:58:39,559
to those perfect experiences

1341
00:58:39,603 --> 00:58:41,082
or a perfect time
in your life

1342
00:58:41,126 --> 00:58:42,954
or when
"“everything was better."

1343
00:58:44,999 --> 00:58:47,045
The movie making world changed.

1344
00:58:48,437 --> 00:58:50,352
He was right there, you know?

1345
00:58:50,396 --> 00:58:52,529
He was on the frontlines
of doing that.

1346
00:58:52,572 --> 00:58:55,532
[Steve] Dippé and me
in a meat locker!

1347
00:58:55,575 --> 00:58:56,968
"The revolution is them."

1348
00:58:57,751 --> 00:58:59,448
[chuckling & sighing]

1349
00:58:59,492 --> 00:59:01,538
Jurassicopened
the doors for all movies,

1350
00:59:02,016 --> 00:59:03,583
so it transformed filmmaking.

1351
00:59:03,627 --> 00:59:06,194
Everybody wanted digital.

1352
00:59:06,238 --> 00:59:08,545
Computer graphics
was the hot, new thing.

1353
00:59:12,157 --> 00:59:13,332
[Howard]
After Jurassic Park,

1354
00:59:14,028 --> 00:59:15,552
filmmaking went off the rails.

1355
00:59:15,595 --> 00:59:17,292
Computers allowed them to--

1356
00:59:17,945 --> 00:59:20,513
to make these spectacles.

1357
00:59:20,557 --> 00:59:23,516
Producers are always looking
for the magic ticket,

1358
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,258
the secret button,
and they suddenly said

1359
00:59:26,301 --> 00:59:28,347
if it'’s got digital effects,

1360
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:30,436
that'’s the button you press
that makes a gazillion bucks.

1361
00:59:30,479 --> 00:59:32,656
They think
the more of this little thing

1362
00:59:32,699 --> 00:59:35,310
that'’s great, you know,
and by increasing it

1363
00:59:35,354 --> 00:59:37,312
in these films, it'’s gonna
make the film better,

1364
00:59:37,356 --> 00:59:38,749
and it hasn'’t, it's actually
destroyed filmmaking.

1365
00:59:38,792 --> 00:59:40,446
More junk,
more junk, more junk,

1366
00:59:40,489 --> 00:59:42,187
faster, more junk,
more junk--

1367
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:46,060
[monkeys screeching]

1368
00:59:46,104 --> 00:59:50,108
A successful movie is built
on a triangle.

1369
00:59:50,151 --> 00:59:53,198
You have art, on another point
you have technology,

1370
00:59:53,241 --> 00:59:55,461
and the other part
you have business.

1371
00:59:55,504 --> 00:59:58,638
And if any side gets
too big or too small,

1372
00:59:58,682 --> 01:00:00,727
the motion picture will suffer.

1373
01:00:00,771 --> 01:00:02,424
[Jabba screaming]

1374
01:00:02,468 --> 01:00:05,645
And it became more about
style over substance.

1375
01:00:05,689 --> 01:00:08,648
We saw all kinds
of horrible movies

1376
01:00:08,692 --> 01:00:10,389
with lots of visual effects.

1377
01:00:10,432 --> 01:00:11,695
You know
what we got rewarded for?

1378
01:00:11,738 --> 01:00:13,653
For fuckin'’ Jurassic Park?

1379
01:00:13,697 --> 01:00:15,612
Casper the Friendly Ghost.

1380
01:00:15,655 --> 01:00:17,178
I hated Casperwhen it was 2D.

1381
01:00:17,526 --> 01:00:19,790
Uh, Hi?

1382
01:00:19,833 --> 01:00:24,533
The concept became, "Let'’s redo
everything digitally,"

1383
01:00:24,577 --> 01:00:26,710
right, that was done
in a two-dimensional medium.

1384
01:00:26,753 --> 01:00:28,407
I mean, if you look at
something like Scooby Doo,

1385
01:00:28,668 --> 01:00:33,325
this ridiculously
stupid-looking cartoon dog,

1386
01:00:34,195 --> 01:00:38,286
it'’s like, "No! That thing
does not exist in our world!

1387
01:00:38,330 --> 01:00:41,202
I refuse to believe it!
Take it away!"

1388
01:00:41,246 --> 01:00:43,640
[Flintstonestheme playing]

1389
01:00:43,683 --> 01:00:45,685
♪ Let's ride with the family
down the street ♪

1390
01:00:45,729 --> 01:00:46,991
♪ Through the

1391
01:00:47,034 --> 01:00:49,080
[John]
This was the period when

1392
01:00:49,123 --> 01:00:52,736
motion pictures stopped
being director-controlled

1393
01:00:52,779 --> 01:00:54,563
and started becoming
corporate-driven.

1394
01:00:55,173 --> 01:00:57,175
And this was
the beginning of the end.

1395
01:00:57,218 --> 01:00:59,438
[gunshots blasting]

1396
01:00:59,481 --> 01:01:01,266
The corporations have
just kind of

1397
01:01:01,309 --> 01:01:02,571
taken everything over.

1398
01:01:03,442 --> 01:01:05,400
And fucked everything up.

1399
01:01:06,097 --> 01:01:07,185
And...

1400
01:01:07,881 --> 01:01:10,014
But they can still sell,
you know,

1401
01:01:10,057 --> 01:01:12,059
lots of Coca-Cola, you know?

1402
01:01:12,103 --> 01:01:13,365
And...

1403
01:01:14,409 --> 01:01:15,976
crummy superhero movies.

1404
01:01:18,239 --> 01:01:20,938
[Steve]
Because of the success of Mask

1405
01:01:20,981 --> 01:01:23,941
we ended up producing
a very popular comic

1406
01:01:23,984 --> 01:01:25,377
at the time called Spawn.

1407
01:01:25,420 --> 01:01:27,031
[dramatic music playing]

1408
01:01:27,074 --> 01:01:30,556
[creature screeching]

1409
01:01:31,122 --> 01:01:32,645
That was Mark and my foray

1410
01:01:32,689 --> 01:01:34,821
to getting into
making our own films.

1411
01:01:35,126 --> 01:01:38,216
So, we leave ILM, boom.
Gone, you know?

1412
01:01:38,259 --> 01:01:39,608
Then we end up
hiring back the company

1413
01:01:39,652 --> 01:01:40,740
to do the visual effects.

1414
01:01:45,353 --> 01:01:51,751
♪ The itsy-bitsy spider
climbed up the water spout ♪

1415
01:01:51,795 --> 01:01:57,757
♪ Down came the rain
and washed the spider out ♪

1416
01:01:57,801 --> 01:01:59,498
♪ Out came the sun

1417
01:01:59,541 --> 01:02:02,327
After Spawn, I don'’t have a
job.

1418
01:02:02,980 --> 01:02:04,068
No job.

1419
01:02:04,111 --> 01:02:05,722
[Adrienne screams]

1420
01:02:05,765 --> 01:02:07,985
[Steve] So, I was asked
to do the visual effects

1421
01:02:08,028 --> 01:02:10,683
on The Hulkat ILM.

1422
01:02:12,250 --> 01:02:14,861
and then that article comes out
about pencil neck geeks.

1423
01:02:14,905 --> 01:02:18,952
♪

1424
01:02:25,742 --> 01:02:27,874
Dennis Muren basically said,

1425
01:02:27,918 --> 01:02:29,876
"How much more of this
do we have to take?"

1426
01:02:32,052 --> 01:02:34,881
[whistles]
Gone from ILM, kicked out.

1427
01:02:34,925 --> 01:02:36,578
I was done with them,
they were done with me.

1428
01:02:39,538 --> 01:02:40,931
After all these years...

1429
01:02:42,889 --> 01:02:44,021
I'’ll never forget it.

1430
01:02:46,980 --> 01:02:49,983
What made him brilliant
and a maverick

1431
01:02:50,027 --> 01:02:54,509
and a magnetic draw
for many of us

1432
01:02:55,293 --> 01:02:56,903
soon became something

1433
01:02:56,947 --> 01:02:59,688
that I felt
he needed to outgrow.

1434
01:02:59,732 --> 01:03:01,342
[violin piece playing]

1435
01:03:02,604 --> 01:03:03,867
[Steve]
She just didn'’t like my antics.

1436
01:03:04,868 --> 01:03:05,999
She didn'’t like the drinking.

1437
01:03:07,740 --> 01:03:10,656
Everybody who'’s with me changes,
right?

1438
01:03:10,699 --> 01:03:12,223
But they have to understand
that I don'’t change.

1439
01:03:12,266 --> 01:03:13,572
I'’m always the fucking same.

1440
01:03:13,615 --> 01:03:15,617
Always. Right or wrong.

1441
01:03:17,532 --> 01:03:20,840
-Hm? What keeps me from--
-[man] From changing.

1442
01:03:20,884 --> 01:03:22,450
What keeps me from changing?

1443
01:03:22,494 --> 01:03:24,975
Stupidity. [laughs]

1444
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:27,368
I know nothin'’ else.

1445
01:03:30,981 --> 01:03:33,853
He was really good
in the therapy sessions and...

1446
01:03:34,854 --> 01:03:36,987
the moment
we got home he was like,

1447
01:03:37,030 --> 01:03:38,815
"“Oh, fuck that shit, you know,
I'’m not gonna change, you know,

1448
01:03:38,858 --> 01:03:40,729
this is who I am,
this is who I am,

1449
01:03:40,773 --> 01:03:42,166
this is what people love,
this is what people expect,

1450
01:03:42,209 --> 01:03:43,515
I'’m Spaz, you know."

1451
01:03:43,558 --> 01:03:45,952
And I kind of naively thought,

1452
01:03:45,996 --> 01:03:49,521
"Well, let'’s give it some time
and maybe he will change."

1453
01:03:53,568 --> 01:03:54,831
[Steve]
Give me a smile, honey.

1454
01:03:54,874 --> 01:03:56,658
Hi.

1455
01:03:56,702 --> 01:03:58,269
I'’m just kind of in a rush
right now, as usual.

1456
01:03:58,312 --> 01:03:59,879
And as soon as
Hannah discovers I'm gone,

1457
01:03:59,923 --> 01:04:01,576
then I will have
no extra hands--

1458
01:04:01,620 --> 01:04:03,317
[Steve] I figure
it'’s a good thing if I have

1459
01:04:03,361 --> 01:04:04,884
the camera on,
then you won'’t yell at me.

1460
01:04:04,928 --> 01:04:06,407
[Adrienne sighs]
I don'’t yell that much.

1461
01:04:06,451 --> 01:04:09,367
Excuse me.
Steve, please, okay?

1462
01:04:09,933 --> 01:04:11,586
[Steve] Hi!

1463
01:04:11,630 --> 01:04:13,850
-[baby babbling]
-Where are we going, sweetie?

1464
01:04:15,068 --> 01:04:16,853
Hey, look!

1465
01:04:16,896 --> 01:04:18,506
Visual effects supervisors
strapped to the fence!

1466
01:04:18,550 --> 01:04:20,117
Isn'’t that funny?

1467
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:21,901
What? I'’m sorry.

1468
01:04:21,945 --> 01:04:23,337
-What-- what did I say?
-[Adrienne] [indistinct].

1469
01:04:23,381 --> 01:04:24,295
What am I not allowed
to do now?

1470
01:04:26,340 --> 01:04:27,994
[Hannah] My parents split up
when I was three.

1471
01:04:29,517 --> 01:04:32,956
It kind of just became normal

1472
01:04:32,999 --> 01:04:34,740
that my parents
weren'’t together?

1473
01:04:34,783 --> 01:04:36,916
You know, my mom moved
to San Rafael,

1474
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:38,613
my dad still had the house.

1475
01:04:41,312 --> 01:04:44,358
[Adrienne] Steve decided to take
his career in a new direction,

1476
01:04:44,402 --> 01:04:46,012
so he was off feature films

1477
01:04:46,056 --> 01:04:47,971
and he was starting
to direct commercials.

1478
01:04:48,014 --> 01:04:50,930
[grunting]

1479
01:04:50,974 --> 01:04:52,801
[Steve]
Blockbuster campaign.

1480
01:04:52,845 --> 01:04:53,933
It was very successful.

1481
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,981
We get approached by Disney,
who has a film called

1482
01:04:58,024 --> 01:05:01,593
The Wild, and so we end up
working on this movie.

1483
01:05:02,507 --> 01:05:05,162
[Ellen] 2003, I was working
as an assistant editor

1484
01:05:05,205 --> 01:05:06,337
for the movie, The Wild.

1485
01:05:06,380 --> 01:05:07,816
Hello, Spaz!

1486
01:05:09,166 --> 01:05:12,386
I was just so in love
with Steve.

1487
01:05:12,996 --> 01:05:14,606
I really felt
like he was my soulmate.

1488
01:05:15,607 --> 01:05:19,393
And we made
a fantastic home together.

1489
01:05:19,437 --> 01:05:21,874
[Steve]
Okay, Christmas! 2005!

1490
01:05:21,918 --> 01:05:23,223
[Hannah] Christmas!
-Christmas!

1491
01:05:23,267 --> 01:05:24,746
[Steve] 2005!

1492
01:05:24,790 --> 01:05:26,139
-Here, look, Hannah.
-[Hannah] Hi!

1493
01:05:26,183 --> 01:05:27,575
[Ellen]
He put a lot of love

1494
01:05:27,619 --> 01:05:28,968
and craftsmanship
into that house.

1495
01:05:29,577 --> 01:05:31,014
It was warm and cozy,

1496
01:05:31,057 --> 01:05:33,190
unique, fun,
creative place to be.

1497
01:05:34,931 --> 01:05:36,715
We decided to get married
in the backyard.

1498
01:05:37,846 --> 01:05:40,240
[dramatic music playing]

1499
01:05:43,026 --> 01:05:45,985
Oh, yeah, baby!

1500
01:05:46,029 --> 01:05:50,207
♪

1501
01:05:50,250 --> 01:05:53,036
[Ellen] When we got back
from Toronto after The Wild,

1502
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:55,168
it was really hard
for those of us

1503
01:05:55,212 --> 01:05:56,691
on the film to get work

1504
01:05:56,735 --> 01:05:59,390
because the film
was so poorly received.

1505
01:05:59,433 --> 01:06:01,740
It was a drag. It was a drag.

1506
01:06:01,783 --> 01:06:03,916
And then, so, I went back
to commercials again.

1507
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:05,831
[commercial customer]
Which one would be better,

1508
01:06:05,874 --> 01:06:08,529
to knock a guy
off of a motorcycle?

1509
01:06:08,573 --> 01:06:11,358
[announcer]
Road Rash 3D.

1510
01:06:13,882 --> 01:06:15,580
[Steve] You know, either you'’re
the flavor of the month

1511
01:06:15,623 --> 01:06:16,755
or you'’re not.

1512
01:06:18,887 --> 01:06:20,585
It'’s just
a very fickle business.

1513
01:06:23,980 --> 01:06:26,112
Things just stalled for me.

1514
01:06:28,897 --> 01:06:31,378
[Hannah] The commercials,
those dried up.

1515
01:06:32,814 --> 01:06:35,817
Nothing was really coming in
that was substantial enough.

1516
01:06:38,603 --> 01:06:39,865
[Phil]
The world had changed.

1517
01:06:41,649 --> 01:06:43,564
Sometimes, you'’re rewarded by,

1518
01:06:43,608 --> 01:06:47,264
uh, your longevity in--
in doing things

1519
01:06:47,307 --> 01:06:51,007
and, you know, those guys were
relatively new to the game.

1520
01:06:51,833 --> 01:06:55,446
And, uh,
they moved on very quickly

1521
01:06:55,489 --> 01:06:58,405
to wanting to direct
their own stuff.

1522
01:06:59,102 --> 01:07:02,235
So, they moved into
a whole 'nother zone

1523
01:07:02,279 --> 01:07:04,107
and then they kind of
didn'’t come back.

1524
01:07:06,761 --> 01:07:09,199
The problem
with this racket is that

1525
01:07:09,242 --> 01:07:10,504
if you'’re not...

1526
01:07:12,028 --> 01:07:14,769
in it, you--
Then you'’re not in it.

1527
01:07:17,076 --> 01:07:18,904
And he hadn'’t been
in the game for a long time.

1528
01:07:21,124 --> 01:07:22,429
You know,
you just get forgotten.

1529
01:07:28,131 --> 01:07:29,523
[Steve]
I reapplied to ILM.

1530
01:07:32,091 --> 01:07:33,179
They shut me down.

1531
01:07:35,616 --> 01:07:37,444
They don'’t want me back there
and I don'’t blame ''‘em.

1532
01:07:38,489 --> 01:07:39,794
I don'’t blame ''‘em at all.

1533
01:07:42,841 --> 01:07:44,451
If I'’d been more political...

1534
01:07:45,713 --> 01:07:47,628
I wouldn'’t be struggling
right now

1535
01:07:47,672 --> 01:07:50,022
to pay my God damn mortgage.

1536
01:07:52,155 --> 01:07:54,113
[wind whooshing]

1537
01:07:57,682 --> 01:07:59,118
[Steve sighs]

1538
01:07:59,162 --> 01:08:02,252
[Hannah]
That rejection on a big stage...

1539
01:08:04,167 --> 01:08:07,996
I don'’t think I'll ever know

1540
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,870
the true effects of what
that feels like for him.

1541
01:08:13,001 --> 01:08:16,701
All of those feelings, like,
just completely resurfaced

1542
01:08:16,744 --> 01:08:18,224
and he didn'’t know
how to handle it.

1543
01:08:22,141 --> 01:08:25,231
It was a snowball of...

1544
01:08:26,232 --> 01:08:29,061
bad memories, guilt,

1545
01:08:29,105 --> 01:08:31,672
lack of clarity
about certain things.

1546
01:08:34,284 --> 01:08:36,895
He just started drinking more.

1547
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:41,160
[Ellen]
It'’s a way to cover up

1548
01:08:41,204 --> 01:08:42,814
all the things
you feel shitty about.

1549
01:08:44,990 --> 01:08:46,774
We were down at the pub
every single day,

1550
01:08:46,818 --> 01:08:48,863
drinking for about three hours
every night and then

1551
01:08:48,907 --> 01:08:52,867
that sort of grew into drinking
before we went to the pub,

1552
01:08:52,911 --> 01:08:55,348
and, um, just getting into,

1553
01:08:55,392 --> 01:08:58,395
just the worst knock down,
drag-out,

1554
01:08:58,438 --> 01:09:01,398
awful fights when we got home.

1555
01:09:03,051 --> 01:09:04,575
So, I finally
worked up the courage

1556
01:09:04,618 --> 01:09:05,837
to walk into an AA meeting.

1557
01:09:06,794 --> 01:09:10,058
You go, you keep going back,
and I got sober,

1558
01:09:10,102 --> 01:09:12,974
I stayed sober and, I'’m gonna
sound like an AA thumper,

1559
01:09:13,018 --> 01:09:14,933
but by the grace of God
I'’m still sober

1560
01:09:14,976 --> 01:09:17,196
and my marriage fell apart.

1561
01:09:19,546 --> 01:09:21,461
I knew
that if I didn'’t move out,

1562
01:09:21,505 --> 01:09:22,723
I wouldn'’t stay sober.

1563
01:09:23,811 --> 01:09:26,118
It'’s common where...

1564
01:09:26,771 --> 01:09:29,730
two alcoholics, one gets sober
and the other doesn'’t.

1565
01:09:31,079 --> 01:09:33,169
Well, I thought
we were doin'’ okay.

1566
01:09:33,212 --> 01:09:34,692
[Ellen on phone]

1567
01:09:41,655 --> 01:09:43,266
[Steve]
Ellen, please, I--

1568
01:09:48,184 --> 01:09:49,924
[Ellen sobbing]

1569
01:09:52,362 --> 01:09:55,234
[Hannah]
She left to light a fire

1570
01:09:55,278 --> 01:09:57,889
under my dad'’s ass, like, "“Hey,
you gotta clean up your act

1571
01:09:57,932 --> 01:09:59,238
or I'’m gone for good."

1572
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:02,807
[Ellen] The train was goin'’
200 miles an hour.

1573
01:10:03,547 --> 01:10:05,505
I was either gonna go
into the wall with it,

1574
01:10:05,549 --> 01:10:07,159
or I was gonna get off

1575
01:10:07,638 --> 01:10:11,207
and hope that Steve could get
off before it-- it killed him.

1576
01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:13,426
So, I think she wanted
to scare him a little bit.

1577
01:10:15,036 --> 01:10:16,777
And it only made it worse.

1578
01:10:16,821 --> 01:10:19,040
[somber music playing]

1579
01:10:24,045 --> 01:10:25,873
[Steve]
Boredom is destructive.

1580
01:10:25,917 --> 01:10:27,005
[can hisses open]

1581
01:10:31,618 --> 01:10:33,229
I'’m just waiting
for another mission.

1582
01:10:35,796 --> 01:10:37,145
I don'’t have a mission anymore.

1583
01:10:42,673 --> 01:10:44,849
[Hannah]
He completely isolated himself.

1584
01:10:46,067 --> 01:10:47,547
Lost a bunch of weight.

1585
01:10:48,809 --> 01:10:50,942
You know, he just looked sick.

1586
01:10:50,985 --> 01:10:52,160
It was awful.

1587
01:10:53,814 --> 01:10:56,817
He was waking up at noon.

1588
01:10:56,861 --> 01:10:57,949
Drinking.

1589
01:10:58,602 --> 01:11:00,168
Passing out at 4:00.

1590
01:11:00,821 --> 01:11:04,172
Waking up again at 7:00.

1591
01:11:04,216 --> 01:11:05,696
Drinking.

1592
01:11:05,739 --> 01:11:07,393
Passing out at midnight,

1593
01:11:07,437 --> 01:11:10,353
waking up at 4 AM to drink.

1594
01:11:12,224 --> 01:11:13,573
To see him...

1595
01:11:15,314 --> 01:11:16,446
plummet...

1596
01:11:17,185 --> 01:11:18,709
like, headfirst...

1597
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:21,146
into the deep end...

1598
01:11:22,147 --> 01:11:24,497
that was one
of the hardest things

1599
01:11:24,541 --> 01:11:25,672
to ever deal with.

1600
01:11:25,716 --> 01:11:28,371
♪

1601
01:11:32,636 --> 01:11:35,247
[Steve] I don'’t think
it'’s gonna end well for me.

1602
01:11:39,295 --> 01:11:40,513
God damn it.

1603
01:11:40,557 --> 01:11:42,341
I think it'’s gonna end bad.

1604
01:11:55,528 --> 01:11:58,052
[metal clanging]

1605
01:12:03,841 --> 01:12:06,452
-[object clattering on floor]
-[Steve] Fuck you!

1606
01:12:14,591 --> 01:12:16,027
[sniffles]

1607
01:12:20,553 --> 01:12:21,815
[sighs]

1608
01:13:00,463 --> 01:13:02,029
[Steve]
I'’ve never been an adult.

1609
01:13:06,599 --> 01:13:09,297
I'’ve never been an adult,
I'’ve only been, um...

1610
01:13:10,298 --> 01:13:12,736
I'’ve been a child, right,
that kind of...

1611
01:13:14,128 --> 01:13:16,000
grew up, but, you know...

1612
01:13:18,045 --> 01:13:19,786
loves Saturday morning cartoons

1613
01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:21,919
and I-- I kind of wish
that every day

1614
01:13:21,962 --> 01:13:24,617
was a Saturday morning cartoon,
but it'’s not.

1615
01:13:25,444 --> 01:13:26,489
You know?

1616
01:13:38,979 --> 01:13:40,285
I'’m an alcoholic.

1617
01:13:42,983 --> 01:13:46,117
And... I lost my family.

1618
01:13:50,077 --> 01:13:51,339
I lost them all.

1619
01:13:56,606 --> 01:13:58,042
I just need a mission.

1620
01:14:01,611 --> 01:14:03,003
I have to invent
the mission.

1621
01:14:06,529 --> 01:14:07,834
And what is the mission?

1622
01:14:10,446 --> 01:14:11,490
To sober up.

1623
01:14:13,623 --> 01:14:14,841
Hopefully, that'’ll--

1624
01:14:15,668 --> 01:14:18,062
You know, resolve
and some of it works out.

1625
01:14:18,889 --> 01:14:24,285
♪

1626
01:14:31,771 --> 01:14:32,946
It'’s Diane.

1627
01:14:35,340 --> 01:14:37,385
She'’s a sweetheart. Hi, Di.

1628
01:14:43,217 --> 01:14:45,698
Diane'’s a nurse,
she'’s an RN, yeah.

1629
01:14:47,526 --> 01:14:48,919
She knows I'’m a mess.

1630
01:14:49,659 --> 01:14:52,792
[Diane] Ready?
What''’re you drinking there?

1631
01:14:52,836 --> 01:14:54,446
-[Steve] A cider.
-[Diane] Hard cider?

1632
01:14:54,490 --> 01:14:55,926
[Steve] Yeah.

1633
01:14:55,969 --> 01:14:57,754
[Diane]
Can you not drink that, please?

1634
01:14:57,797 --> 01:14:59,059
-You'’re on the property.
-[Steve] I'’m sorry.

1635
01:14:59,843 --> 01:15:01,584
-All right.
-[Diane] Don'’t drink that!

1636
01:15:01,627 --> 01:15:03,803
Gimme that!
No, you-- you can'’t.

1637
01:15:05,239 --> 01:15:06,937
-[Diane] Give it to him.
-[Steve] I'’m sorry.

1638
01:15:07,633 --> 01:15:09,505
[Diane]
Okay. That'’s all right.

1639
01:15:09,548 --> 01:15:11,898
We gotta get you in nursing
and get your intake done.

1640
01:15:11,942 --> 01:15:13,770
So, you can, uh,
grab your stuff.

1641
01:15:13,813 --> 01:15:15,336
[Steve] You have
to leave your camera in here.

1642
01:15:15,380 --> 01:15:16,512
[cameraman]
Yeah, I got it.

1643
01:15:16,947 --> 01:15:18,731
[Diane]
Just a couple of these...

1644
01:15:19,906 --> 01:15:25,085
♪

1645
01:15:38,795 --> 01:15:40,187
[Steve]
So, it was time to smarten up.

1646
01:15:42,668 --> 01:15:43,930
Time to grow up.

1647
01:15:49,588 --> 01:15:51,459
I wouldn'’t be standing here
if I had not made

1648
01:15:51,503 --> 01:15:53,157
that decision eight months ago.

1649
01:15:54,767 --> 01:15:56,116
Um...

1650
01:15:57,857 --> 01:15:59,076
It'’s a lot quieter.

1651
01:15:59,903 --> 01:16:01,600
I'’ve sort of shut down
all the old ways,

1652
01:16:01,644 --> 01:16:03,515
all the old places,
all the old people.

1653
01:16:04,385 --> 01:16:06,431
You know?
Now, I'’m just stuck with me.

1654
01:16:08,172 --> 01:16:09,303
Which is good and bad.

1655
01:16:11,262 --> 01:16:13,569
I have to be very careful
because beer was used

1656
01:16:13,612 --> 01:16:16,702
to run away from myself
and I have myself only

1657
01:16:16,746 --> 01:16:18,486
and I have to be
very, very careful.

1658
01:16:19,966 --> 01:16:23,491
You know, I always occupy
my mind with things to do.

1659
01:16:24,405 --> 01:16:25,493
That''’s the most important
thing.

1660
01:16:26,973 --> 01:16:30,150
Even if it includes something
so simple as doing the dishes.

1661
01:16:34,198 --> 01:16:36,113
Being an adult
is a very strange thing.

1662
01:16:38,855 --> 01:16:40,596
But looking in the mirror,

1663
01:16:40,639 --> 01:16:42,162
you'’re not frightened
of yourself anymore.

1664
01:16:44,687 --> 01:16:46,297
So, where the journey'’s gonna
take me now,

1665
01:16:46,340 --> 01:16:47,646
I don'’t know.

1666
01:16:47,690 --> 01:16:49,779
At 57, that'’s a good question.

1667
01:16:51,694 --> 01:16:54,174
This is kind of like
being at a bus depot

1668
01:16:54,697 --> 01:16:56,307
and the next bus
that comes along,

1669
01:16:56,350 --> 01:16:58,091
you don'’t know where it's going.

1670
01:16:58,614 --> 01:17:00,746
But, while you'’re at the depot,
you get to pick up

1671
01:17:00,790 --> 01:17:02,226
some of your old hobbies

1672
01:17:02,269 --> 01:17:04,750
that you enjoyed
and not have the threat

1673
01:17:04,794 --> 01:17:07,579
of taking your finger off
''‘cause you'’ve had a six-pack.

1674
01:17:07,623 --> 01:17:10,669
[upbeat electronica playing]

1675
01:17:10,713 --> 01:17:14,064
He'’s a lot more self-aware now.

1676
01:17:14,107 --> 01:17:16,327
And he'’s a lot more aware

1677
01:17:16,370 --> 01:17:19,765
of I'’d say,
people and their needs.

1678
01:17:22,463 --> 01:17:24,030
I think the pain

1679
01:17:24,727 --> 01:17:28,556
of certain things in his life
will never go away.

1680
01:17:30,167 --> 01:17:33,387
But he still has
so much to give.

1681
01:17:34,388 --> 01:17:37,130
[host]
Welcome to the expert series.

1682
01:17:37,174 --> 01:17:39,002
We have, uh, Steve Williams,

1683
01:17:39,045 --> 01:17:42,875
he'’s here to share
with you his expertise.

1684
01:17:42,919 --> 01:17:45,225
[crowd cheering]

1685
01:17:45,269 --> 01:17:47,967
You guys are gonna have
a good time, he'’s a lot of fun.

1686
01:17:48,011 --> 01:17:49,708
[Steve] The thing
about being an artist

1687
01:17:49,752 --> 01:17:51,362
I want you guys to remember
is that everytime

1688
01:17:51,405 --> 01:17:55,148
there's plotted out path
for you and rules,

1689
01:17:55,192 --> 01:17:56,889
-fuckin'’ break ''‘em, right?
-[crowd laughing]

1690
01:17:56,933 --> 01:17:58,717
-[woman shouting] Yes!
-And remember,

1691
01:17:58,761 --> 01:18:01,459
art is always about
questioning established systems.

1692
01:18:01,502 --> 01:18:03,461
[applause]

1693
01:18:03,504 --> 01:18:05,724
[Adrienne]
To continue to be relevant,

1694
01:18:05,768 --> 01:18:07,900
that'’s what we all want.

1695
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,860
Is to have some kind of
body of experience

1696
01:18:10,903 --> 01:18:13,906
that'’s going to educate
and inspire other people.

1697
01:18:15,125 --> 01:18:16,779
That'’s the gift
of getting older.

1698
01:18:17,954 --> 01:18:20,870
You allow yourself
to make mistakes,

1699
01:18:20,913 --> 01:18:22,349
like, really big mistakes.

1700
01:18:23,481 --> 01:18:27,050
Going to the wrong door
and finding your way out.

1701
01:18:27,093 --> 01:18:29,443
That'’s where the gold is.

1702
01:18:29,487 --> 01:18:31,663
[Robert] When you say pioneers,
it makes you think of

1703
01:18:31,707 --> 01:18:33,230
a certain spirit of a person

1704
01:18:33,273 --> 01:18:34,753
that'’s willing to go out
and risk it all

1705
01:18:34,797 --> 01:18:36,494
and-- and go for it.

1706
01:18:36,537 --> 01:18:38,278
Face whatever dangers
they'’re gonna face

1707
01:18:38,322 --> 01:18:41,804
and be willing to try to fail
at things and, uh,

1708
01:18:41,847 --> 01:18:44,241
take it to the next level.

1709
01:18:44,937 --> 01:18:46,634
I don'’t know
when there'’s going to be

1710
01:18:46,678 --> 01:18:48,985
another breakthrough

1711
01:18:49,028 --> 01:18:53,163
that is as transformative
as making the transition

1712
01:18:53,206 --> 01:18:55,905
from old-school effects
to digital effects.

1713
01:18:56,601 --> 01:18:59,256
Is new ground
being broken today?

1714
01:18:59,299 --> 01:19:01,911
Yeah, but experimentation

1715
01:19:01,954 --> 01:19:05,958
is left to scrappier,
upstart maverick people.

1716
01:19:06,002 --> 01:19:08,918
[Mark] We'’re all believers
in our point of view.

1717
01:19:08,961 --> 01:19:10,397
Even though you have
a lot of talent

1718
01:19:10,441 --> 01:19:12,530
and you're very passionate

1719
01:19:12,573 --> 01:19:14,837
it'’s still not easy to survive
or to succeed in this world.

1720
01:19:21,582 --> 01:19:23,019
[Bill]
In some ways,

1721
01:19:23,715 --> 01:19:26,152
talented people are talented

1722
01:19:26,196 --> 01:19:28,589
because they are able

1723
01:19:28,633 --> 01:19:35,379
to stay in touch with sort of
a childish nature in them.

1724
01:19:36,859 --> 01:19:41,646
Your ability to touch
pure reactions to things

1725
01:19:41,689 --> 01:19:45,041
are kind of like seeing
the world for the first time.

1726
01:19:46,782 --> 01:19:50,655
Anyone who can draw
on that kind of

1727
01:19:50,698 --> 01:19:54,398
childish thinking
has the opportunity

1728
01:19:54,441 --> 01:19:55,965
for greatness in them.

1729
01:19:56,008 --> 01:19:59,098
♪

1730
01:20:01,057 --> 01:20:06,018
♪