1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:02,313 --> 00:00:04,873 (FLASH BULB POPS AND WHINES) 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:09,713 --> 00:00:12,273 (DRAMATIC MUSIC) 5 00:00:19,713 --> 00:00:21,713 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 6 00:00:25,513 --> 00:00:28,393 -(RAIN PATTERS) -(DISTURBING MUSIC) 7 00:00:28,473 --> 00:00:31,353 (THUNDER RUMBLES) 8 00:00:55,153 --> 00:00:57,153 (SPARSE MUSIC) 9 00:00:59,513 --> 00:01:02,193 SILVESTER: We have an awful fascination with the dark twins, 10 00:01:02,273 --> 00:01:03,873 evil and tragedy. 11 00:01:03,953 --> 00:01:08,353 It is what makes us slow and stare at an accident scene, 12 00:01:08,433 --> 00:01:11,953 prepared to be horrified at what we see, 13 00:01:12,033 --> 00:01:13,473 and yet we still look. 14 00:01:13,553 --> 00:01:15,793 (SIRENS WAIL, HORNS HONK) 15 00:01:15,873 --> 00:01:20,593 And it is what makes us wonder what makes a serial killer, 16 00:01:20,673 --> 00:01:22,473 that rare body that walks among us, 17 00:01:22,553 --> 00:01:24,873 hiding in plain sight. 18 00:01:28,113 --> 00:01:31,113 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 19 00:01:49,073 --> 00:01:52,273 (INDISTINCT POLICE RADIO CHATTER) 20 00:01:53,993 --> 00:01:56,513 MAN: But I couldn't sleep a wink, because, um... 21 00:01:57,513 --> 00:01:59,513 ..the reality is, you know, he'd gone again 22 00:01:59,593 --> 00:02:02,513 and...and, uh, we'd missed our opportunity and... 23 00:02:05,433 --> 00:02:08,153 ..it was...it was just gut-wrenching. 24 00:02:10,273 --> 00:02:12,273 Could you just hold that up? 25 00:02:13,753 --> 00:02:16,793 The offender was a quiet loner named Paul Charles Denyer. 26 00:02:17,873 --> 00:02:18,993 The signs were there 27 00:02:19,073 --> 00:02:20,513 that Denyer was a potential psychopath... 28 00:02:20,593 --> 00:02:22,233 That's the way you operate it. 29 00:02:22,313 --> 00:02:24,953 ..if anyone had bothered to look. 30 00:02:27,033 --> 00:02:30,033 -(SOLEMN PIANO MUSIC) -(SEAGULLS SQUAWK) 31 00:02:32,153 --> 00:02:34,033 It was 1993, 32 00:02:34,113 --> 00:02:36,313 long before social media dominated 33 00:02:36,393 --> 00:02:37,913 the communications landscape, 34 00:02:37,993 --> 00:02:40,553 and by any definition, Melbourne was blessed 35 00:02:40,633 --> 00:02:42,633 with a relatively low crime rate. 36 00:02:43,793 --> 00:02:45,433 But in the bayside suburb of Frankston, 37 00:02:45,513 --> 00:02:47,553 that changed in just six weeks, 38 00:02:47,633 --> 00:02:49,553 when three women - 39 00:02:49,633 --> 00:02:51,273 Elizabeth Stevens, 40 00:02:51,353 --> 00:02:53,233 young mother Debbie Fream 41 00:02:53,313 --> 00:02:55,433 and schoolgirl Natalie Russell - 42 00:02:55,513 --> 00:02:58,353 were stalked and murdered in the dead of winter. 43 00:02:58,433 --> 00:03:00,433 (THUNDER RUMBLES, RAIN PATTERS) 44 00:03:02,593 --> 00:03:05,513 The serial killer forced a large slice of Melbourne 45 00:03:05,593 --> 00:03:07,073 into virtual lockdown 46 00:03:07,153 --> 00:03:09,913 and left a homicide task force fighting the clock. 47 00:03:10,913 --> 00:03:14,433 Yeah, look, I was on call on 11 June 1993, 48 00:03:14,513 --> 00:03:15,953 running a team. 49 00:03:16,033 --> 00:03:19,753 And we got the call, and no different to any other job. 50 00:03:19,833 --> 00:03:23,633 We've got a body of a young female 51 00:03:23,713 --> 00:03:25,593 in a place called Lloyd Park, 52 00:03:25,673 --> 00:03:30,033 which is about 3km, um, east of Frankston. 53 00:03:31,593 --> 00:03:33,873 Um, she's in a culvert. 54 00:03:33,953 --> 00:03:36,073 She's, um, dressed. 55 00:03:36,153 --> 00:03:38,233 (SIREN WAILS) 56 00:03:39,553 --> 00:03:40,673 And it was absolutely pouring 57 00:03:40,753 --> 00:03:42,513 and so we were behind the eight ball 58 00:03:42,593 --> 00:03:43,593 before we even started. 59 00:03:43,673 --> 00:03:44,833 (THUNDER BOOMS) 60 00:03:44,913 --> 00:03:46,473 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 61 00:03:46,553 --> 00:03:49,193 (FLASH BULB POPS) 62 00:03:49,273 --> 00:03:51,073 It was just like a satanic killing 63 00:03:51,153 --> 00:03:52,153 because of the... 64 00:03:52,233 --> 00:03:54,873 ..the wounds to the torso concerned us, 65 00:03:54,953 --> 00:03:58,273 the very significant injuries to the throat. 66 00:03:58,353 --> 00:03:59,953 Um, that, uh... 67 00:04:00,033 --> 00:04:02,593 It was, I suppose, you could say 68 00:04:02,673 --> 00:04:04,353 a stage of an overkill. 69 00:04:04,433 --> 00:04:05,833 And that tells you a story 70 00:04:05,913 --> 00:04:08,553 that there is no way known this woman is going to survive 71 00:04:08,633 --> 00:04:10,993 because she would've been able to identify the offender. 72 00:04:11,073 --> 00:04:13,033 So you read these things into it. 73 00:04:13,113 --> 00:04:14,953 (GRIM MUSIC) 74 00:04:15,033 --> 00:04:16,753 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 75 00:04:16,833 --> 00:04:20,273 MAN: Very quickly you could tell with the first murder 76 00:04:20,353 --> 00:04:23,633 that, um, Elizabeth Stevens, 77 00:04:23,713 --> 00:04:24,953 it was unusual 78 00:04:25,033 --> 00:04:28,793 and certainly, with the marks on her body, 79 00:04:28,873 --> 00:04:30,833 there was something astray. 80 00:04:30,913 --> 00:04:34,113 So the Homicide squad took that on immediately. 81 00:04:36,833 --> 00:04:40,633 When I saw the... the marks on the body, 82 00:04:40,713 --> 00:04:42,713 uh, they were unusual 83 00:04:42,793 --> 00:04:47,033 and there is a history of that type of behaviour 84 00:04:47,113 --> 00:04:48,593 with serial killers, 85 00:04:48,673 --> 00:04:51,193 so I was immediately alert to 86 00:04:51,273 --> 00:04:54,473 the potential for something worse to come. 87 00:04:54,553 --> 00:04:56,313 -(TRAM BELL RINGS) -(GRIM MUSIC) 88 00:04:56,393 --> 00:04:58,633 MAN: We had that many suspects, 89 00:04:58,713 --> 00:05:01,953 it was really a difficult process to try and filter down 90 00:05:02,033 --> 00:05:04,193 as to who or someone we should look at. 91 00:05:04,273 --> 00:05:07,033 And we looked at plenty of individuals 92 00:05:07,113 --> 00:05:08,513 and invested lots of time 93 00:05:08,593 --> 00:05:10,073 in what ended up being red herrings 94 00:05:10,153 --> 00:05:11,753 but you don't know it at the time 95 00:05:11,833 --> 00:05:13,153 and you've got to follow the trail. 96 00:05:13,233 --> 00:05:17,153 And we had a mannequin we dressed as the same clothing, 97 00:05:17,233 --> 00:05:20,193 um, had a face depicted on the mannequin, 98 00:05:20,273 --> 00:05:23,113 and we had leaflets, we did roadblocks 99 00:05:23,193 --> 00:05:25,233 to try and put her on that bus. 100 00:05:25,313 --> 00:05:29,273 This was well before CCTV was in vogue that we have today. 101 00:05:29,353 --> 00:05:31,993 We certainly knew she was at the TAFE college. 102 00:05:32,073 --> 00:05:34,073 From that point, blank. 103 00:05:36,433 --> 00:05:39,313 Then came the issue with a missing persons report 104 00:05:39,393 --> 00:05:40,793 of Debbie Fream. 105 00:05:40,873 --> 00:05:43,513 Um, and it wasn't until her body was found, 106 00:05:43,593 --> 00:05:45,353 um, near a farmland 107 00:05:45,433 --> 00:05:47,433 just out of Frankston. 108 00:05:47,513 --> 00:05:50,073 And once I went to that scene, 109 00:05:50,153 --> 00:05:53,393 you could see that she'd been fully clothed. 110 00:05:53,473 --> 00:05:58,233 Uh, throat was cut savagely - same as Elizabeth Stevens. 111 00:05:58,313 --> 00:06:00,193 She had one or two branches covering her, 112 00:06:00,273 --> 00:06:01,593 and then you knew. 113 00:06:01,673 --> 00:06:03,833 -(DOGS BARK) -(MOURNFUL MUSIC) 114 00:06:03,913 --> 00:06:05,513 REPORTER: Detectives have been told 115 00:06:05,593 --> 00:06:07,153 she was driving erratically. 116 00:06:07,233 --> 00:06:09,553 She appeared to be in a distressed state 117 00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:12,553 and was flashing the headlights of the car 118 00:06:12,633 --> 00:06:15,833 to, uh...presumably to attract attention. 119 00:06:15,913 --> 00:06:21,553 The second murder, everyone started to fear that, 120 00:06:21,633 --> 00:06:24,233 "Do we have a serial murder in the town?" 121 00:06:24,313 --> 00:06:28,633 And questions in the media started sparking that. 122 00:06:30,753 --> 00:06:32,593 BEZZINA: But the issue then was 123 00:06:32,673 --> 00:06:36,153 of keeping calm within the community, 124 00:06:36,233 --> 00:06:38,433 of not going out and declaring that. 125 00:06:38,513 --> 00:06:40,873 -(UNSETTLING MUSIC) -(THUNDER RUMBLES) 126 00:06:40,953 --> 00:06:43,153 WILSON: He, uh...he struck when 127 00:06:43,233 --> 00:06:46,673 there was extremely heavy... heavy rain happening, 128 00:06:46,753 --> 00:06:48,793 lightning and thunder and, um... 129 00:06:48,873 --> 00:06:51,433 And as we eventually found out, the reason he did that 130 00:06:51,513 --> 00:06:54,233 was it offered him a cloak of opportunity 131 00:06:54,313 --> 00:06:58,393 to strike when no-one would hear anything, 132 00:06:58,473 --> 00:06:59,753 no-one would hear anyone screaming 133 00:06:59,833 --> 00:07:03,513 because of the rain and the... and the extreme weather. 134 00:07:03,593 --> 00:07:06,113 -(UNSETTLING MUSIC) -(THUNDER RUMBLES) 135 00:07:08,633 --> 00:07:11,353 SILVESTER: Debbie Fream lived with her boyfriend, Garry Blair, 136 00:07:11,433 --> 00:07:13,633 in Kananook Avenue, Seaford. 137 00:07:13,713 --> 00:07:15,433 On July 8, 1993, 138 00:07:15,513 --> 00:07:18,473 she drove down the road to the local milk bar 139 00:07:18,553 --> 00:07:21,313 to buy eggs, milk and a chocolate bar. 140 00:07:21,393 --> 00:07:23,993 She was out of the car for little more than a minute. 141 00:07:25,153 --> 00:07:28,793 Her son, Jake, was 12 days old. 142 00:07:28,873 --> 00:07:31,913 I remember the public identified Debbie Fream's car 143 00:07:31,993 --> 00:07:33,193 that had been dumped in Frankston, 144 00:07:33,273 --> 00:07:35,073 and that was our first breakthrough, 145 00:07:35,153 --> 00:07:36,633 as far as I was concerned. 146 00:07:36,713 --> 00:07:40,193 And that's when we knew that the offender 147 00:07:40,273 --> 00:07:42,873 must live within walking distance of that car. 148 00:07:42,953 --> 00:07:44,953 We had blood in the car 149 00:07:45,033 --> 00:07:46,513 and it had been driven back. 150 00:07:46,593 --> 00:07:49,433 There are, uh, perhaps some similarities, 151 00:07:49,513 --> 00:07:52,193 uh, in the two recent murders. 152 00:07:52,273 --> 00:07:54,433 And we wanted to deal with the crime scene 153 00:07:54,513 --> 00:07:57,593 where the car was found and the car itself. 154 00:08:01,073 --> 00:08:02,113 But at that stage, 155 00:08:02,193 --> 00:08:03,913 Peter took the view that, uh, 156 00:08:03,993 --> 00:08:06,473 we've got real problems here with this guy 157 00:08:06,553 --> 00:08:08,393 and we need to get, um, 158 00:08:08,473 --> 00:08:12,113 a really strong investigation focus on it. 159 00:08:12,193 --> 00:08:15,193 (HAUNTING MUSIC) 160 00:08:28,633 --> 00:08:30,193 But the community could read about it - 161 00:08:30,273 --> 00:08:31,993 two women abducted 162 00:08:32,073 --> 00:08:33,673 within a matter of weeks of each other, 163 00:08:33,753 --> 00:08:34,993 unassociated. 164 00:08:35,073 --> 00:08:37,233 WOMAN: We're sick and tired of these attacks. 165 00:08:37,313 --> 00:08:39,953 The fact that you can't even go down to your local milk bar 166 00:08:40,033 --> 00:08:42,553 without being attacked is now very serious in this area. 167 00:08:42,633 --> 00:08:44,793 I'm certainly not saying that there is a serial killer loose. 168 00:08:44,873 --> 00:08:47,953 What I am saying is that there are similarities 169 00:08:48,033 --> 00:08:50,993 between the murder of... in Frankston 170 00:08:51,073 --> 00:08:53,073 and the murder at Langwarrin. 171 00:08:53,153 --> 00:08:54,233 And because of that, 172 00:08:54,313 --> 00:08:55,953 people shouldn't treat them in isolation. 173 00:08:56,033 --> 00:08:58,593 I would like to see as many local residents as we can 174 00:08:58,673 --> 00:08:59,753 get to the meeting 175 00:08:59,833 --> 00:09:01,313 because there'll be authorities there 176 00:09:01,393 --> 00:09:04,513 that can tell us exactly what to do for our own protection. 177 00:09:04,593 --> 00:09:06,433 The mood in Frankston at the time 178 00:09:06,513 --> 00:09:08,513 was, um... 179 00:09:09,073 --> 00:09:10,513 ..everyone was in fear. 180 00:09:10,593 --> 00:09:13,433 Um...you know, we... we didn't really know 181 00:09:13,513 --> 00:09:15,233 exactly what was going on. 182 00:09:15,313 --> 00:09:17,513 REPORTER: Detectives revealed their latest lead 183 00:09:17,593 --> 00:09:19,073 in the hunt for Debbie Fream's killer 184 00:09:19,153 --> 00:09:21,073 in the wake of last night's huge turnout 185 00:09:21,153 --> 00:09:23,233 to a community crisis meeting at Seaford. 186 00:09:23,313 --> 00:09:25,273 Dozens of people were turned away 187 00:09:25,353 --> 00:09:27,953 when the local community centre reached capacity. 188 00:09:28,033 --> 00:09:30,113 But on the night that Debbie Fream disappeared, 189 00:09:30,193 --> 00:09:33,553 he observed a man washing blood from his hands and face 190 00:09:33,633 --> 00:09:35,033 in the Seaford area. 191 00:09:35,113 --> 00:09:37,113 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 192 00:09:41,873 --> 00:09:44,793 And they were really quick - relatively quick. 193 00:09:44,873 --> 00:09:46,273 One after the other. 194 00:09:46,353 --> 00:09:48,193 So there was a real sense, 195 00:09:48,273 --> 00:09:49,593 especially after the second one, 196 00:09:49,673 --> 00:09:50,793 "What's gonna happen next?" 197 00:09:50,873 --> 00:09:53,193 And there are times when things occur 198 00:09:53,273 --> 00:09:55,593 that are beyond your control. 199 00:09:55,673 --> 00:09:57,073 And yet you can see 200 00:09:57,153 --> 00:09:59,233 a community becoming agitated. 201 00:09:59,313 --> 00:10:01,993 And that's what started to occur then. 202 00:10:02,073 --> 00:10:05,633 You started to see a community concerned. 203 00:10:05,713 --> 00:10:07,713 Not turning on itself, 204 00:10:07,793 --> 00:10:12,953 but concerned and worried and wanting resolution. 205 00:10:13,033 --> 00:10:15,673 I know my wife was concerned 206 00:10:15,753 --> 00:10:19,673 to go, um, anywhere by herself. 207 00:10:19,753 --> 00:10:23,873 Um, it was the topic of everyone's conversation 208 00:10:23,953 --> 00:10:25,833 in a coffee shop or at home. 209 00:10:25,913 --> 00:10:29,513 So that fear quickly developed. 210 00:10:29,593 --> 00:10:31,753 The media were... 211 00:10:31,833 --> 00:10:33,473 I don't like to use the word 'frenzied', 212 00:10:33,553 --> 00:10:35,673 but there was a lot of activity in Frankston 213 00:10:35,753 --> 00:10:40,033 about, um, the potential that this guy could strike again. 214 00:10:42,033 --> 00:10:44,673 It was difficult to, uh, take over the control 215 00:10:44,753 --> 00:10:46,033 of another team's murder, 216 00:10:46,113 --> 00:10:48,233 but, um, we had to work our way through that, 217 00:10:48,313 --> 00:10:49,873 and we did. 218 00:10:49,953 --> 00:10:52,153 BEZZINA: Offenders are lazy. 219 00:10:52,233 --> 00:10:57,113 So we made a decision to do a 2km square doorknock 220 00:10:57,193 --> 00:10:59,833 from where that car radiated from. 221 00:10:59,913 --> 00:11:02,713 The big plan was to call in all the resources 222 00:11:02,793 --> 00:11:04,273 from the other crime squads 223 00:11:04,353 --> 00:11:06,393 to come in and assist us with a doorknock 224 00:11:06,473 --> 00:11:11,313 and account for every individual, teenager upwards. 225 00:11:12,833 --> 00:11:15,753 And they tend to, um... 226 00:11:17,153 --> 00:11:19,593 ..gravitate to the areas they are living in. 227 00:11:19,673 --> 00:11:24,913 And so it is, um, reasonable 228 00:11:24,993 --> 00:11:27,953 to think that or suspect 229 00:11:28,033 --> 00:11:30,113 they may be living not too far 230 00:11:30,193 --> 00:11:32,593 from where the first incident occurred 231 00:11:32,673 --> 00:11:35,993 and, um, may even be living closer to the second incident 232 00:11:36,073 --> 00:11:38,113 and so on. 233 00:11:38,193 --> 00:11:39,593 (INDISTINCT POLICE RADIO CHATTER) 234 00:11:39,673 --> 00:11:41,193 WILSON: The fear in the community, 235 00:11:41,273 --> 00:11:43,153 the resources that we had to redirect 236 00:11:43,233 --> 00:11:46,273 from all over the state for Operation Reassurance 237 00:11:46,353 --> 00:11:48,473 so that we were doubling and tripling the patrols 238 00:11:48,553 --> 00:11:49,633 in the streets, 239 00:11:49,713 --> 00:11:53,233 we were sending out messages to the community 240 00:11:53,313 --> 00:11:55,353 about making sure young women, 241 00:11:55,433 --> 00:11:57,553 that they're being careful, they're being vigilant, 242 00:11:57,633 --> 00:11:59,913 if there's no need to go out, then don't. 243 00:11:59,993 --> 00:12:03,233 Obviously, women, um, travelling alone 244 00:12:03,313 --> 00:12:05,513 or, uh...have got to take precautions 245 00:12:05,593 --> 00:12:07,873 in relation to, um, their activities 246 00:12:07,953 --> 00:12:09,873 in the Frankston area at this present point in time. 247 00:12:09,953 --> 00:12:12,993 You know, don't be left in isolated situations. 248 00:12:13,073 --> 00:12:16,073 Like, that sort of messaging, as you would know, 249 00:12:16,153 --> 00:12:18,353 it certainly puts a lot of pressure on a community, 250 00:12:18,433 --> 00:12:20,433 right up to government. 251 00:12:21,113 --> 00:12:22,993 REPORTER: Dubbed 'Operation Reassurance', 252 00:12:23,073 --> 00:12:25,433 there will be boosted patrols around the clock. 253 00:12:25,513 --> 00:12:27,873 The helicopter will make regular sweeps, 254 00:12:27,953 --> 00:12:29,793 the Mounted Branch will tour the streets. 255 00:12:29,873 --> 00:12:32,953 The Transit Patrol will ride the trains. 256 00:12:33,033 --> 00:12:34,593 They say it's not good enough 257 00:12:34,673 --> 00:12:37,153 that people are hiding in their homes in fear. 258 00:12:39,633 --> 00:12:40,713 BEZZINA: We had a chap. 259 00:12:40,793 --> 00:12:42,793 We did a doorknock on this particular house. 260 00:12:42,873 --> 00:12:44,033 He opened the door. 261 00:12:44,113 --> 00:12:46,433 He was covered in blood and told us to fuck off. 262 00:12:46,513 --> 00:12:48,713 Got a warrant, searched him, 263 00:12:48,793 --> 00:12:50,633 ended up he was a self-mutilator. 264 00:12:50,713 --> 00:12:52,713 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 265 00:12:56,473 --> 00:12:58,073 MAN: We identified a suspect, 266 00:12:58,153 --> 00:13:00,553 who had moved out of Debbie Fream's street, 267 00:13:00,633 --> 00:13:03,753 um, the night, uh, she was murdered, 268 00:13:03,833 --> 00:13:06,353 with a horrific history. 269 00:13:06,433 --> 00:13:08,993 So... And had taken off. 270 00:13:09,073 --> 00:13:10,473 So we thought, uh, 271 00:13:10,553 --> 00:13:11,953 he's gotta be worth a good look. 272 00:13:12,033 --> 00:13:13,473 We found out he was at Corryong 273 00:13:13,553 --> 00:13:16,353 and I went up to Corryong with Charlie Bezzina and Mark Wolf, 274 00:13:16,433 --> 00:13:18,033 and while we were up there, 275 00:13:18,113 --> 00:13:20,753 unfortunately, Natalie Russell was murdered. 276 00:13:24,873 --> 00:13:27,633 MAN: So on the night Natalie Russell was reported missing, 277 00:13:27,713 --> 00:13:29,553 I went to the football at the MCG 278 00:13:29,633 --> 00:13:32,033 and I...I didn't get home until about midnight. 279 00:13:32,113 --> 00:13:34,273 And I was met at the front door by my wife. 280 00:13:34,353 --> 00:13:38,473 And, um...and she told me that a young girl had gone missing 281 00:13:38,553 --> 00:13:41,633 and that my people had been trying to locate me all night. 282 00:13:41,713 --> 00:13:44,113 Of course, this predated mobile phones. 283 00:13:44,193 --> 00:13:45,873 (SOLEMN MUSIC) 284 00:13:45,953 --> 00:13:47,953 (SIREN WAILS) 285 00:13:49,953 --> 00:13:52,993 RANKIN: Then that evening, a sergeant doing a search 286 00:13:53,073 --> 00:13:54,993 locates the body of Natalie Russell, 287 00:13:55,073 --> 00:13:57,993 uh, through a cut wire in the fence 288 00:13:58,073 --> 00:14:00,233 off this track in the golf course. 289 00:14:02,993 --> 00:14:07,313 So I got into my car and drove into the office. 290 00:14:07,393 --> 00:14:09,793 And, um, yeah... 291 00:14:12,433 --> 00:14:14,713 I started getting phone calls from people saying, 292 00:14:14,793 --> 00:14:15,793 "Is she with you?" 293 00:14:15,873 --> 00:14:17,513 And I was like, "No," 294 00:14:17,593 --> 00:14:20,793 um, "I was expecting her to call me," or something. 295 00:14:20,873 --> 00:14:23,153 And, um, then I started to panic 296 00:14:23,233 --> 00:14:24,633 once I sort of... 297 00:14:24,713 --> 00:14:26,073 'Cause it was very unusual for her. 298 00:14:26,153 --> 00:14:29,313 She was always very careful to, um, you know, 299 00:14:29,393 --> 00:14:31,233 not let people worry about her 300 00:14:31,313 --> 00:14:35,033 especially in the current situation that was in Frankston. 301 00:14:36,433 --> 00:14:37,913 SILVESTER: The victim was identified 302 00:14:37,993 --> 00:14:39,993 by Dr Darren Russell... 303 00:14:41,073 --> 00:14:43,073 ..Natalie's brother. 304 00:14:45,113 --> 00:14:46,353 WILSON: We fast-forward then 305 00:14:46,433 --> 00:14:48,553 to the body being found Friday night. 306 00:14:48,633 --> 00:14:50,393 The next day, the Saturday, 307 00:14:50,473 --> 00:14:52,713 we were running a major operation in Frankston 308 00:14:52,793 --> 00:14:54,913 involving 200 detectives, 309 00:14:54,993 --> 00:14:58,113 where we were gonna doorknock an area of Frankston 310 00:14:58,193 --> 00:14:59,393 with a profile, 311 00:14:59,473 --> 00:15:02,033 trying to flush out who this might be. 312 00:15:03,873 --> 00:15:05,593 We were going to catch up that night. 313 00:15:05,673 --> 00:15:08,073 I think that was her plan that night. 314 00:15:08,153 --> 00:15:12,553 Um, she was... uh, for some reason, 315 00:15:12,633 --> 00:15:14,713 going home earlier, walking home. 316 00:15:14,793 --> 00:15:17,393 I think the plan was to get picked up by her mum. 317 00:15:17,473 --> 00:15:20,353 But she was going home and walked down that track 318 00:15:20,433 --> 00:15:22,073 and, um... 319 00:15:22,153 --> 00:15:24,953 Yeah, we were planning on meeting up 320 00:15:25,033 --> 00:15:26,713 and probably meeting with other friends 321 00:15:26,793 --> 00:15:28,393 and, yeah... 322 00:15:28,473 --> 00:15:31,713 (HAUNTING VOCAL MUSIC) 323 00:15:33,593 --> 00:15:35,993 RANKIN: I thought we had two weeks to resolve it 324 00:15:36,073 --> 00:15:39,713 because, like, if it wasn't school holiday time 325 00:15:39,793 --> 00:15:41,753 parents would've been terrified 326 00:15:41,833 --> 00:15:43,113 about sending their kids to school. 327 00:15:43,193 --> 00:15:44,593 So I thought, in my own mind, 328 00:15:44,673 --> 00:15:46,833 that for the community's sake, 329 00:15:46,913 --> 00:15:50,073 we really had two weeks to resolve it. 330 00:15:50,153 --> 00:15:52,713 (RAIN PATTERS, THUNDER BOOMS) 331 00:15:59,833 --> 00:16:01,353 And want of a better word, 332 00:16:01,433 --> 00:16:03,393 it's the chase that you're involved in, 333 00:16:03,473 --> 00:16:06,753 is you're building the evidence and the clues from one body 334 00:16:06,833 --> 00:16:08,073 at a crime scene 335 00:16:08,153 --> 00:16:10,353 to eventually making an arrest. 336 00:16:10,433 --> 00:16:12,193 And, you know, there was a lot of pressure 337 00:16:12,273 --> 00:16:15,353 being brought on the investigators to catch this guy. 338 00:16:15,433 --> 00:16:20,153 You could've thrown a match and the place would've exploded. 339 00:16:20,233 --> 00:16:23,233 And there was... there was outrage, 340 00:16:23,313 --> 00:16:24,713 but more importantly, 341 00:16:24,793 --> 00:16:27,793 there was this genuine, genuine fear 342 00:16:27,873 --> 00:16:30,113 and the police were doing everything they could 343 00:16:30,193 --> 00:16:33,713 to identify a suspect and to make the arrest. 344 00:16:33,793 --> 00:16:38,793 Uh, but it wasn't an easy time for the community down there. 345 00:16:38,873 --> 00:16:41,073 Isn't it about time that the government decided 346 00:16:41,153 --> 00:16:43,353 to bring back capital punishment? 347 00:16:43,433 --> 00:16:46,793 (PEOPLE CHEER) 348 00:16:46,873 --> 00:16:49,073 (MOUTHS WORDS) 349 00:16:52,393 --> 00:16:54,033 I think with the investigators, 350 00:16:54,113 --> 00:16:58,033 there's pressure on them to... to get a result 351 00:16:58,113 --> 00:17:00,113 and get a result as soon as possible. 352 00:17:00,193 --> 00:17:04,193 But my job is to try and take that pressure off them 353 00:17:04,273 --> 00:17:09,033 and manage that and manage what might happen in the future 354 00:17:09,113 --> 00:17:11,673 and let them focus on what actually happened 355 00:17:11,753 --> 00:17:13,553 and what they need to deal with. 356 00:17:13,633 --> 00:17:16,553 So on the Saturday morning, um, 357 00:17:16,633 --> 00:17:21,473 we had a couple of known serious sex offenders and suspects, 358 00:17:21,553 --> 00:17:26,153 uh, so myself and a team, we quickly went... 359 00:17:26,233 --> 00:17:27,633 ..visited a couple of houses. 360 00:17:27,713 --> 00:17:29,753 We seized some clothing from a couple of addresses. 361 00:17:29,833 --> 00:17:31,553 And then we set up, at 10am, 362 00:17:31,633 --> 00:17:35,193 we set up an information caravan in Skye Road, 363 00:17:35,273 --> 00:17:37,833 right at the bottom of the laneway 364 00:17:37,913 --> 00:17:39,953 where Natalie was murdered. 365 00:17:41,753 --> 00:17:44,033 And then it was shortly after 3 o'clock, 366 00:17:44,113 --> 00:17:46,713 Rod Wilson come to the caravan 367 00:17:46,793 --> 00:17:48,353 and, um... 368 00:17:48,433 --> 00:17:52,033 ..he produced, um, some reports that had come in, 369 00:17:52,113 --> 00:17:55,433 uh, one of course from the, uh... 370 00:17:55,513 --> 00:17:58,593 ..the young postal officer that had noticed the car 371 00:17:58,673 --> 00:18:00,273 and there were the two other sightings 372 00:18:00,353 --> 00:18:02,753 just prior to Natalie's murder 373 00:18:02,833 --> 00:18:05,873 at the Langwarrin Fauna and Flora Reserve. 374 00:18:05,953 --> 00:18:07,153 And also there was another sighting 375 00:18:07,233 --> 00:18:09,593 at the Kananook railway station. 376 00:18:13,673 --> 00:18:16,193 Of course, I wasn't to know it at the time, 377 00:18:16,273 --> 00:18:19,393 but we had him inside 24 hours. 378 00:18:19,473 --> 00:18:23,193 SILVESTER: Postie Vicky Collins was on her delivery round 379 00:18:23,273 --> 00:18:24,793 when she saw a driver trying to hide 380 00:18:24,873 --> 00:18:26,993 inside a parked yellow sedan. 381 00:18:27,073 --> 00:18:32,953 It was 3:05pm and Denyer was about to murder Natalie Russell. 382 00:18:33,033 --> 00:18:35,513 She stopped at a house to ring police. 383 00:18:35,593 --> 00:18:37,593 It would be the first time 384 00:18:37,673 --> 00:18:40,473 police could place Denyer at the crime scene. 385 00:18:40,553 --> 00:18:42,753 He was then the number one suspect. 386 00:18:42,833 --> 00:18:45,953 Whilst I was at the Frankston Police Station, 387 00:18:46,033 --> 00:18:47,913 I was alerted to the fact that 388 00:18:47,993 --> 00:18:51,713 these young cops had checked that vehicle yesterday. 389 00:18:51,793 --> 00:18:54,393 "Hey, boss, we checked the car 390 00:18:54,473 --> 00:18:56,433 "not far from there on Skye Road," 391 00:18:56,513 --> 00:18:59,273 and that's when it all evolved. 392 00:18:59,353 --> 00:19:00,553 -(GRIM MUSIC) -(CAMERA CLICKS) 393 00:19:00,633 --> 00:19:02,633 (INDISTINCT POLICE RADIO CHATTER) 394 00:19:02,713 --> 00:19:05,233 WILSON: And it happened to be right opposite the track 395 00:19:05,313 --> 00:19:08,153 where we assumed Natalie had walked at the time 396 00:19:08,233 --> 00:19:09,673 she was...she went missing. 397 00:19:09,753 --> 00:19:12,593 So it was the golden nugget of information 398 00:19:12,673 --> 00:19:14,793 that we'd...we'd looked at... we looked for 399 00:19:14,873 --> 00:19:17,153 and then we then started concentrating on 400 00:19:17,233 --> 00:19:18,353 who this guy was 401 00:19:18,433 --> 00:19:20,353 and it just went from there. 402 00:19:20,433 --> 00:19:22,193 And there was one of those moments. 403 00:19:22,273 --> 00:19:24,353 I looked at Rod and I just knew. 404 00:19:24,433 --> 00:19:26,433 I said... 405 00:19:26,913 --> 00:19:28,913 .."This is him." 406 00:19:32,913 --> 00:19:35,433 (RAIN PATTERS, THUNDER RUMBLES) 407 00:19:38,113 --> 00:19:39,673 We decided then, 408 00:19:39,753 --> 00:19:43,353 um, that myself and Mick Hughes would go down. 409 00:19:43,433 --> 00:19:45,353 Uh, just the two of us. 410 00:19:45,433 --> 00:19:48,553 Although, we had reinforcements not too far away 411 00:19:48,633 --> 00:19:51,153 because if it's him, you know, 412 00:19:51,233 --> 00:19:55,833 we've gotta be extremely careful of how we approach him. 413 00:19:55,913 --> 00:19:57,153 Not many people around. 414 00:19:57,233 --> 00:19:58,393 I was doorknocking 415 00:19:58,473 --> 00:20:02,793 and I was literally speaking to, um, the resident, 416 00:20:02,873 --> 00:20:04,953 just asking if they'd seen anything. 417 00:20:05,033 --> 00:20:07,913 And it was interesting - out of the corner of my right eye, 418 00:20:07,993 --> 00:20:12,593 I saw a car going at a really fast rate of knots. 419 00:20:12,673 --> 00:20:13,593 (SIREN WAILS) 420 00:20:13,673 --> 00:20:15,353 And I could see my crew in there, 421 00:20:15,433 --> 00:20:18,113 so the Frankston detectives, in the car. 422 00:20:18,193 --> 00:20:19,593 And they must've seen me. 423 00:20:19,673 --> 00:20:21,993 I don't know how, 'cause they were travelling too quick, 424 00:20:22,073 --> 00:20:23,673 heading somewhere. 425 00:20:23,753 --> 00:20:27,153 Um, and they pulled up the brakes, backed back 426 00:20:27,233 --> 00:20:29,953 and yelled out to me to jump in the car. 427 00:20:30,033 --> 00:20:33,233 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 428 00:20:36,393 --> 00:20:38,593 WILSON: Uh, we went to the door. 429 00:20:38,673 --> 00:20:42,273 Um, it was just a small flat in, uh...in Frankston 430 00:20:42,353 --> 00:20:43,633 where he was living. 431 00:20:43,713 --> 00:20:46,153 Um, we went inside. He invited us in. 432 00:20:46,233 --> 00:20:48,833 Uh, we just said we were following up on the doorknock. 433 00:20:48,913 --> 00:20:50,673 He said, "Come in." 434 00:20:50,753 --> 00:20:52,433 He offered me a cigarette. 435 00:20:52,513 --> 00:20:54,233 Um... 436 00:20:54,313 --> 00:20:59,233 He was just too effusive about us being there 437 00:20:59,313 --> 00:21:01,153 and...and it was just a little unnatural. 438 00:21:01,233 --> 00:21:03,873 And then we invited him back to the police station, um, 439 00:21:03,953 --> 00:21:06,833 all under pol... under caution, of course. 440 00:21:06,913 --> 00:21:08,993 And again, I'll warn you that you're not obliged 441 00:21:09,073 --> 00:21:10,793 to say or do anything unless you wish to, 442 00:21:10,873 --> 00:21:12,993 and anything you say or do may be given in evidence. 443 00:21:13,073 --> 00:21:17,273 He was very, very comfortable in coming back 444 00:21:17,353 --> 00:21:19,193 and wanting to help. 445 00:21:19,273 --> 00:21:22,593 He was so enthusiastic about the opportunity 446 00:21:22,673 --> 00:21:24,993 to play the game, to be important again, 447 00:21:25,073 --> 00:21:28,273 to come down and be the centre of me asking him questions 448 00:21:28,353 --> 00:21:29,393 about his movements 449 00:21:29,473 --> 00:21:32,513 over the last, you know, five or six weeks. 450 00:21:32,593 --> 00:21:35,273 I intend to interview you 451 00:21:35,353 --> 00:21:37,553 in relation to the death 452 00:21:37,633 --> 00:21:40,153 of Natalie Russell. 453 00:21:40,233 --> 00:21:42,953 Um, before continuing, I must inform you 454 00:21:43,033 --> 00:21:44,953 that you're not obliged to say or do anything, 455 00:21:45,033 --> 00:21:47,713 but anything you say or do may be given in evidence. 456 00:21:47,793 --> 00:21:49,913 -Do you understand that? -Yeah. 457 00:21:49,993 --> 00:21:52,433 You know, sometimes, when you've worked homicide for a long time 458 00:21:52,513 --> 00:21:56,233 you just get a bit of a gut feeling about, um, individuals. 459 00:21:57,793 --> 00:21:59,753 O'LOUGHLIN: I think there's nothing better than video. 460 00:21:59,833 --> 00:22:01,593 You actually can see demeanour. 461 00:22:01,673 --> 00:22:04,033 You can see how people respond to questions, 462 00:22:04,113 --> 00:22:07,033 whether it's an obvious sort of lie 463 00:22:07,113 --> 00:22:08,633 or, um... 464 00:22:08,713 --> 00:22:10,793 "Can you account for your movements over... 465 00:22:10,873 --> 00:22:13,873 .."since the... the Russell murder?" 466 00:22:13,953 --> 00:22:15,233 May. 467 00:22:15,313 --> 00:22:16,993 Police say, from May, you haven't worked since then. 468 00:22:17,073 --> 00:22:18,513 I think that's right, yeah. 469 00:22:18,593 --> 00:22:20,873 SILVESTER: You're on the fly. You don't know much about him. 470 00:22:20,953 --> 00:22:21,913 No. 471 00:22:21,993 --> 00:22:23,433 Just, uh, stopping there for a moment. 472 00:22:23,513 --> 00:22:25,033 What sort of car do you have? 473 00:22:25,113 --> 00:22:29,273 Uh, 1974 Toyota Corona. Corona Mark II. 474 00:22:29,353 --> 00:22:31,553 Corona Mark II? What colour is that? 475 00:22:31,633 --> 00:22:33,673 Uh, yellowish cream. Cream yellow. 476 00:22:33,753 --> 00:22:36,233 Right. What's the registration number? 477 00:22:36,313 --> 00:22:37,593 (LAUGHS) 478 00:22:37,673 --> 00:22:43,073 Denyer had started on a path 479 00:22:43,153 --> 00:22:45,433 of what he termed 'hunting'. 480 00:22:45,513 --> 00:22:47,913 (DOGS BARK IN DISTANCE) 481 00:22:47,993 --> 00:22:48,993 This was real. 482 00:22:49,073 --> 00:22:52,313 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 483 00:22:53,793 --> 00:22:56,113 MAN: One of the things that I've discovered 484 00:22:56,193 --> 00:22:58,153 in looking at serial killers 485 00:22:58,233 --> 00:23:02,233 is that their biographies are typically quite vague 486 00:23:02,313 --> 00:23:03,993 about their childhood. 487 00:23:04,073 --> 00:23:07,033 But in fact, if you rely on the evidence 488 00:23:07,113 --> 00:23:08,233 of other people, 489 00:23:08,313 --> 00:23:11,553 you see this pattern of childhood trauma 490 00:23:11,633 --> 00:23:16,513 and, um, absolutely unrelenting brutality 491 00:23:16,593 --> 00:23:17,993 that they're subjected to. 492 00:23:18,073 --> 00:23:19,593 And I guess, if you think about it, 493 00:23:19,673 --> 00:23:22,793 if you bought a puppy and you got it at eight weeks 494 00:23:22,873 --> 00:23:25,593 and you brutalised it every day, 495 00:23:25,673 --> 00:23:28,153 you wouldn't really be terribly surprised, 496 00:23:28,233 --> 00:23:30,673 uh, if it turned out to be a very angry dog. 497 00:23:30,753 --> 00:23:32,753 -(GRIM MUSIC) -(CAMERA CLICKS) 498 00:23:33,713 --> 00:23:35,233 I've seen the vehicle today. 499 00:23:35,313 --> 00:23:37,353 It has no registration plates. 500 00:23:37,433 --> 00:23:38,393 That's correct. 501 00:23:38,473 --> 00:23:39,553 Why is that? 502 00:23:39,633 --> 00:23:41,033 'Cause it's currently unregistered. 503 00:23:41,113 --> 00:23:43,033 But he was... you know, he was ready 504 00:23:43,113 --> 00:23:45,273 'cause he... he knew we were coming. 505 00:23:45,353 --> 00:23:48,713 He'd prepared himself to explain his movements. 506 00:23:48,793 --> 00:23:51,793 Uh, car started to overheat on the way home, 507 00:23:51,873 --> 00:23:54,833 so I pulled over into a little car park area 508 00:23:54,913 --> 00:23:56,353 next to a flora reserve. 509 00:23:56,433 --> 00:23:57,393 WILSON: Mm-hm. 510 00:23:57,473 --> 00:23:58,673 Uh... 511 00:23:58,753 --> 00:24:01,513 I checked the water. Topped it up. 512 00:24:01,593 --> 00:24:03,913 What time do you think you would've actually broken down 513 00:24:03,993 --> 00:24:06,993 in Skye Road, opposite the golf course there? 514 00:24:08,313 --> 00:24:10,273 Now, you would've turned left into Skye Road 515 00:24:10,353 --> 00:24:12,313 and you parked on the left-hand side of the road? 516 00:24:12,393 --> 00:24:13,993 -Yeah. -Just normally parked? 517 00:24:14,073 --> 00:24:16,073 Yeah, just up against the kerb. 518 00:24:16,153 --> 00:24:19,633 Up against the kerb. Alright. So what did you do then? 519 00:24:21,073 --> 00:24:23,073 You got the bonnet up at this stage? 520 00:24:23,153 --> 00:24:24,473 Yeah, got the bonnet up. 521 00:24:24,553 --> 00:24:26,713 I checked my toolbox to see if I had, you know, 522 00:24:26,793 --> 00:24:28,753 a proper screwdriver to do it up with... 523 00:24:28,833 --> 00:24:31,233 -To do what up with? -The hose clamp. 524 00:24:31,313 --> 00:24:34,593 I put the hose back on, but I wanted to do the hose clamp. 525 00:24:34,673 --> 00:24:37,073 -To make it a bit tighter? -Yeah. So it wouldn't come off. 526 00:24:37,153 --> 00:24:38,753 At that stage, when you're in Skye Road, 527 00:24:38,833 --> 00:24:40,753 how far from home were you? 528 00:24:40,833 --> 00:24:42,313 About a 25-minute walk. 529 00:24:42,393 --> 00:24:44,393 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 530 00:24:47,273 --> 00:24:48,673 (MOURNFUL PIANO MUSIC) 531 00:24:48,753 --> 00:24:50,313 LIMBRICK: Natalie was a... 532 00:24:50,393 --> 00:24:52,913 She was a really intelligent young woman. 533 00:24:52,993 --> 00:24:54,873 Um... 534 00:24:54,953 --> 00:24:56,953 She...she loved writing. 535 00:24:57,033 --> 00:24:59,593 She...she was interested in journalism. 536 00:24:59,673 --> 00:25:02,833 Um, she...she used to like 537 00:25:02,913 --> 00:25:04,713 wearing purple and black clothes, 538 00:25:04,793 --> 00:25:05,873 you know, she... 539 00:25:05,953 --> 00:25:07,513 I think people would've called her a Goth. 540 00:25:07,593 --> 00:25:09,873 You know, she had very dark hair 541 00:25:09,953 --> 00:25:14,193 and, um, dark eyes and, uh... and, um... 542 00:25:15,313 --> 00:25:18,873 But...and she had a really, uh, funny sense of humour, 543 00:25:18,953 --> 00:25:20,513 a quirky sense of humour, 544 00:25:20,593 --> 00:25:22,713 which everyone loved about her. 545 00:25:22,793 --> 00:25:24,353 (CAMERA CLICKS) 546 00:25:24,433 --> 00:25:26,873 Had you become aware that a girl 547 00:25:26,953 --> 00:25:28,153 was found murdered in Frankston... 548 00:25:28,233 --> 00:25:29,713 Yeah, I've heard a lot about it. 549 00:25:29,793 --> 00:25:33,713 Her body was found in Frankston yester...uh, today. 550 00:25:34,993 --> 00:25:36,433 -Today being Saturday. -Yeah. 551 00:25:36,513 --> 00:25:38,153 When did you first become aware of that? 552 00:25:38,233 --> 00:25:41,633 Well, I saw some police cars and everything 553 00:25:41,713 --> 00:25:44,273 when I was driving up Skye Road this morning at 8:30. 554 00:25:44,353 --> 00:25:46,393 WILSON: Sorry, you saw SES workers and all that. 555 00:25:46,473 --> 00:25:47,433 DENYER: Mmm. 556 00:25:47,513 --> 00:25:48,873 -WILSON: In Skye Road. -DENYER: Yeah. 557 00:25:48,953 --> 00:25:51,593 They had some white tape across the walkway. 558 00:25:51,673 --> 00:25:53,673 I saw you. 559 00:25:53,753 --> 00:25:55,673 -I'm sorry - you saw me? -Yeah, I saw you. 560 00:25:55,753 --> 00:26:00,673 And I saw, uh...the other guy I was talking to in there. 561 00:26:00,753 --> 00:26:03,593 I saw youse...you guys standing next to a van. 562 00:26:03,673 --> 00:26:05,713 Oh, yeah? What sort of van? 563 00:26:05,793 --> 00:26:07,273 White one. Like a caravan. 564 00:26:07,353 --> 00:26:08,513 -Big van. -Oh, yeah. 565 00:26:08,593 --> 00:26:10,753 A lot of them are rat cunning 566 00:26:10,833 --> 00:26:13,353 and they might appear not to be 567 00:26:13,433 --> 00:26:15,193 the brightest person in the world, 568 00:26:15,273 --> 00:26:16,793 but they're rat cunning 569 00:26:16,873 --> 00:26:20,233 when it comes to trying to cover their tracks 570 00:26:20,313 --> 00:26:22,713 or set up an alibi or whatever. 571 00:26:22,793 --> 00:26:24,833 They get a lot of that from television, of course. 572 00:26:24,913 --> 00:26:26,353 Can you just detail to me 573 00:26:26,433 --> 00:26:28,713 what clothing you had on yesterday 574 00:26:28,793 --> 00:26:29,993 when you were in Skye Road? 575 00:26:30,073 --> 00:26:30,993 Yesterday. 576 00:26:31,073 --> 00:26:33,113 Yesterday, I had, uh, black pants. 577 00:26:33,193 --> 00:26:34,113 Right. 578 00:26:34,193 --> 00:26:36,313 I had black shoes. 579 00:26:36,393 --> 00:26:37,993 What sort of black pants? 580 00:26:38,073 --> 00:26:39,473 -Tracksuit pants. -Right. 581 00:26:39,553 --> 00:26:41,713 I had a black pair of Aerosport runners. 582 00:26:41,793 --> 00:26:44,033 Right. What size foot are you? 583 00:26:44,113 --> 00:26:45,113 -10. -Right. 584 00:26:45,193 --> 00:26:46,593 Oh, 10, 11. 585 00:26:46,673 --> 00:26:49,153 -(UNEASY MUSIC) -(MUD SQUELCHES) 586 00:26:49,233 --> 00:26:51,993 WILSON: He was able to recount his movements 587 00:26:52,073 --> 00:26:54,233 down to the nth degree 588 00:26:54,313 --> 00:26:55,953 about where he was on a particular night, 589 00:26:56,033 --> 00:26:58,553 where he'd had dinner, what he...you know, etc, etc. 590 00:26:58,633 --> 00:27:00,553 Now, I don't know about you, John, 591 00:27:00,633 --> 00:27:03,113 but I can barely remember what I did two days ago. 592 00:27:03,193 --> 00:27:06,753 If the police came along and looked at your car... 593 00:27:06,833 --> 00:27:07,953 I would have seen them, yeah. 594 00:27:08,033 --> 00:27:09,433 You would have seen that, wouldn't you? 595 00:27:09,513 --> 00:27:10,513 Course. (LAUGHS) 596 00:27:10,593 --> 00:27:12,073 You would've taken particular attention 597 00:27:12,153 --> 00:27:13,313 if the police had come along. 598 00:27:13,393 --> 00:27:14,873 Yeah, I would've been worried 599 00:27:14,953 --> 00:27:16,633 about the car being unregistered. 600 00:27:16,713 --> 00:27:18,073 WILSON: Yeah. 601 00:27:18,153 --> 00:27:19,993 What time do you think you were... 602 00:27:20,073 --> 00:27:23,673 ..got from the park, assuming you drove directly, 603 00:27:23,753 --> 00:27:28,713 to the time that you noticed that the...temperature rising 604 00:27:28,793 --> 00:27:30,593 and pulled up your car 605 00:27:30,673 --> 00:27:34,313 in, um, Skye...Road? 606 00:27:34,393 --> 00:27:36,393 (GRIM MUSIC) 607 00:27:44,513 --> 00:27:46,033 WILSON: I think what we found was, 608 00:27:46,113 --> 00:27:48,113 the day after he'd killed Natalie Russell, 609 00:27:48,193 --> 00:27:50,473 he was out and about again. 610 00:27:50,553 --> 00:27:52,433 I think he was actually actively looking 611 00:27:52,513 --> 00:27:54,593 for opportunities to kill again. 612 00:27:57,153 --> 00:27:59,353 He was narrowing the time frames 613 00:27:59,433 --> 00:28:03,473 or the time between, um, each person he killed, 614 00:28:03,553 --> 00:28:04,953 'cause he was getting away with it 615 00:28:05,033 --> 00:28:06,633 and he was becoming far more brazen. 616 00:28:06,713 --> 00:28:09,713 When your car was parked in Skye Road, 617 00:28:09,793 --> 00:28:14,393 um, it was checked by the police. 618 00:28:14,473 --> 00:28:16,313 -Right. -Um... 619 00:28:16,393 --> 00:28:18,433 -Were you aware of that? -(CAMERA CLICKS) 620 00:28:18,513 --> 00:28:19,593 No. 621 00:28:19,673 --> 00:28:21,073 You're not aware of that? 622 00:28:21,153 --> 00:28:23,073 Well, when a friend of mine told me 623 00:28:23,153 --> 00:28:24,913 they heard my name over a scanner yesterday. 624 00:28:24,993 --> 00:28:26,273 Sorry? 625 00:28:26,353 --> 00:28:29,113 Friend of mine told me... I spoke to her this morning. 626 00:28:29,193 --> 00:28:31,953 She said she heard my name mentioned and my address 627 00:28:32,033 --> 00:28:34,793 and details of my car mentioned over a police scanner. 628 00:28:34,873 --> 00:28:36,753 WILSON: How did she come to hear 629 00:28:36,833 --> 00:28:38,593 your name over the scanner? 630 00:28:38,673 --> 00:28:39,873 She's got a scanner, has she? 631 00:28:39,953 --> 00:28:42,073 -A friend of hers has. -Who's that? 632 00:28:42,153 --> 00:28:43,473 I don't know. She didn't say. 633 00:28:43,553 --> 00:28:45,113 She was sitting in the car with them 634 00:28:45,193 --> 00:28:47,953 and, you know, heard my name over a scanner. 635 00:28:48,033 --> 00:28:49,873 When did your name come over the scanner? 636 00:28:49,953 --> 00:28:51,313 Yesterday. 637 00:28:51,393 --> 00:28:53,913 Probably when you said, when the police checked my car. 638 00:28:53,993 --> 00:28:55,313 -Probably then, yeah. -I see. Wow. 639 00:28:55,393 --> 00:28:59,513 What struck me was... his recall. 640 00:28:59,593 --> 00:29:02,553 "Elizabeth Stevens was found dead on this day." 641 00:29:02,633 --> 00:29:04,753 "Jeez, that day I was down there." 642 00:29:04,833 --> 00:29:06,513 He put himself in every location. 643 00:29:06,593 --> 00:29:09,553 He put himself at every murder scene. 644 00:29:09,633 --> 00:29:11,273 "And you know I was in Skye Road 645 00:29:11,353 --> 00:29:13,833 "because you've told me you checked my car." 646 00:29:13,913 --> 00:29:16,393 So, you know, on we went from there. 647 00:29:16,473 --> 00:29:19,033 But there was a long way to go, long way. 648 00:29:19,113 --> 00:29:21,033 It's all about proving it. 649 00:29:21,113 --> 00:29:23,473 So you saw me this morning. You saw a van set up. 650 00:29:23,553 --> 00:29:24,673 You knew that 12 o'clock, 651 00:29:24,753 --> 00:29:26,793 from what the other girl had told you, 652 00:29:26,873 --> 00:29:28,633 that your car had been mentioned 653 00:29:28,713 --> 00:29:31,873 and your name and that read out over the...over the, uh... 654 00:29:31,953 --> 00:29:33,633 ..over the scanner or something. 655 00:29:33,713 --> 00:29:35,433 -Yeah. -With the details of your car. 656 00:29:35,513 --> 00:29:37,033 You saw a caravan set up, 657 00:29:37,113 --> 00:29:39,233 but you didn't think it'd be relevant to say 658 00:29:39,313 --> 00:29:40,993 that you had your car parked there, 659 00:29:41,073 --> 00:29:42,953 knowing that the police had checked it. 660 00:29:43,033 --> 00:29:44,593 Well, I thought, you know, 661 00:29:44,673 --> 00:29:46,833 if the police, you know, checked my car out sitting there... 662 00:29:46,913 --> 00:29:48,353 WILSON: Mm. 663 00:29:48,433 --> 00:29:51,193 ..it'd be, you know, routine for them to come and see me. 664 00:29:51,273 --> 00:29:53,513 So you expected the police to come and see you? 665 00:29:53,593 --> 00:29:54,993 Yeah, I just thought, you know, 666 00:29:55,073 --> 00:29:56,993 you guys would come around, yeah. 667 00:29:57,073 --> 00:29:59,433 One of my lads, Darren O'Loughlin, 668 00:29:59,513 --> 00:30:03,153 uh, he...he was tasked to sit with Denyer 669 00:30:03,233 --> 00:30:04,753 during the course of the... 670 00:30:04,833 --> 00:30:06,233 ..during the course of the evening 671 00:30:06,313 --> 00:30:09,233 while Rod and his team were moving in and out, 672 00:30:09,313 --> 00:30:11,313 making inquiries and following up things 673 00:30:11,393 --> 00:30:13,433 and looking at what had been recovered 674 00:30:13,513 --> 00:30:14,913 from his address and... 675 00:30:14,993 --> 00:30:16,953 O'LOUGHLIN: He asked what my thoughts were 676 00:30:17,033 --> 00:30:18,073 about the murders. 677 00:30:18,153 --> 00:30:19,953 And I said, "Look, I'm not involved 678 00:30:20,033 --> 00:30:21,553 "in the investigation at all. 679 00:30:21,633 --> 00:30:23,873 "I've got no idea what evidence they have, 680 00:30:23,953 --> 00:30:24,993 "what they're doing," 681 00:30:25,073 --> 00:30:27,513 um, along those sort of lines. 682 00:30:27,593 --> 00:30:31,633 What I did say is that, um, 683 00:30:31,713 --> 00:30:33,793 "Whoever's committing these crimes 684 00:30:33,873 --> 00:30:36,873 "is influenced by a demon. 685 00:30:36,953 --> 00:30:38,153 "They're pure evil." 686 00:30:38,233 --> 00:30:42,393 And...and that caused him to stop and think 687 00:30:42,473 --> 00:30:45,593 and say, "I used to go to church." 688 00:30:45,673 --> 00:30:49,033 And I said, "Oh, OK. Which church?" 689 00:30:49,113 --> 00:30:50,673 And he said, "Seaford." 690 00:30:50,753 --> 00:30:52,673 I said, "Who's the pastor?" 691 00:30:52,753 --> 00:30:55,153 He said, "Pastor Peter Nicholls." 692 00:30:55,233 --> 00:30:58,833 And I was a bit shocked 693 00:30:58,913 --> 00:31:01,393 because it was just a coincidence 694 00:31:01,473 --> 00:31:04,553 or a set of unusual facts 695 00:31:04,633 --> 00:31:08,273 that I had just started a marriage course with my wife 696 00:31:08,353 --> 00:31:10,993 in Pastor Peter Nicholls's home 697 00:31:11,073 --> 00:31:13,033 at the same time. 698 00:31:13,113 --> 00:31:14,873 And so I didn't say anything 699 00:31:14,953 --> 00:31:16,553 because the last thing you want to do 700 00:31:16,633 --> 00:31:19,513 is give away your personal, um, details. 701 00:31:19,593 --> 00:31:21,793 The...the thing that stuck in my mind, 702 00:31:21,873 --> 00:31:23,073 he said, 703 00:31:23,153 --> 00:31:27,513 "They," the Church, "see me as a wolf 704 00:31:27,593 --> 00:31:28,993 "in sheep's clothing." 705 00:31:29,073 --> 00:31:31,113 I noticed a number of cuts on your fingers. 706 00:31:31,193 --> 00:31:32,113 Yeah. 707 00:31:32,193 --> 00:31:34,313 Can you just, um, put your hands... 708 00:31:34,393 --> 00:31:35,953 ..flat on the desk here 709 00:31:36,033 --> 00:31:36,993 so that, um... 710 00:31:37,073 --> 00:31:39,113 Just right up here. 711 00:31:41,673 --> 00:31:46,313 He now saw that every headline and every news bulletin 712 00:31:46,393 --> 00:31:48,713 led with, um, 713 00:31:48,793 --> 00:31:50,753 "There's a serial killer on the loose." 714 00:31:50,833 --> 00:31:52,753 It just gave him a sense of importance 715 00:31:52,833 --> 00:31:54,633 that he was the... he was the subject 716 00:31:54,713 --> 00:31:56,553 of what everybody was talking about 717 00:31:56,633 --> 00:31:58,673 and it made him feel important. 718 00:31:58,753 --> 00:32:00,473 On his finger here, 719 00:32:00,553 --> 00:32:03,353 he had a large chunk of skin missing. 720 00:32:03,433 --> 00:32:05,673 -WILSON: You've got a cut here. -DENYER: Hmm. 721 00:32:05,753 --> 00:32:07,273 -WILSON: See here? -DENYER: Yep. 722 00:32:07,353 --> 00:32:09,233 -And you've got a cut here. -DENYER: Yep. 723 00:32:09,313 --> 00:32:10,473 WILSON: When did they occur? 724 00:32:10,553 --> 00:32:12,673 DENYER: I'm not quite sure when they occurred. 725 00:32:12,753 --> 00:32:15,233 OK, so at the same time, 726 00:32:15,313 --> 00:32:17,953 there's obviously a live post-mortem being... 727 00:32:18,033 --> 00:32:21,033 ..uh, is occurring simultaneous to the interview. 728 00:32:23,633 --> 00:32:25,193 Probably just over an inch long. 729 00:32:25,273 --> 00:32:28,073 It's on the middle finger of your left hand. 730 00:32:28,153 --> 00:32:31,313 If you can just show it that way so we can see it a bit clearer. 731 00:32:31,393 --> 00:32:34,953 See how it's about, um, oh, about a quarter of an inch wide, 732 00:32:35,033 --> 00:32:36,033 would you agree? 733 00:32:36,113 --> 00:32:38,153 And it has an irregular sort of edge. 734 00:32:39,713 --> 00:32:41,593 You filled the radiator, I take it? 735 00:32:41,673 --> 00:32:42,713 Yeah. 736 00:32:42,793 --> 00:32:44,273 How did you get that injury? 737 00:32:44,353 --> 00:32:47,673 I...I got it when I was fiddling around with some wires 738 00:32:47,753 --> 00:32:49,833 down on the alternator. 739 00:32:49,913 --> 00:32:51,153 -It's... -When? 740 00:32:51,233 --> 00:32:52,593 When I was at home. 741 00:32:52,673 --> 00:32:54,913 I was topping up the water when I was at home. 742 00:32:54,993 --> 00:32:58,273 I didn't really feel it at first 'cause it was so quick. 743 00:32:58,353 --> 00:32:59,953 But, I mean, that's a fairly deep... 744 00:33:00,033 --> 00:33:02,073 How are you saying it occurred? 745 00:33:02,153 --> 00:33:04,753 Well, the fan spins this way, 746 00:33:04,833 --> 00:33:06,793 so if I'm standing at the front of the car... 747 00:33:06,873 --> 00:33:07,793 WILSON: Yeah. 748 00:33:07,873 --> 00:33:09,433 Like here. Fan spins that way. 749 00:33:09,513 --> 00:33:11,633 -The alternator sits there. -Yeah. 750 00:33:11,713 --> 00:33:16,073 And there's some wires running down underneath. 751 00:33:16,153 --> 00:33:18,873 WILSON: If we just show up your right thumb, 752 00:33:18,953 --> 00:33:20,953 just round to the camera here... 753 00:33:21,913 --> 00:33:23,353 ..see that...that cut there? 754 00:33:23,433 --> 00:33:24,753 -You have a look at it. -Yeah. 755 00:33:24,833 --> 00:33:26,273 WILSON: It's a straight, long cut. 756 00:33:26,353 --> 00:33:27,873 DENYER: Yeah. 757 00:33:27,953 --> 00:33:29,393 WILSON: And it's probably, what, about an... 758 00:33:29,473 --> 00:33:30,993 What would you say? 759 00:33:31,073 --> 00:33:32,553 Two inches long? 760 00:33:32,633 --> 00:33:34,353 Deep at the top? 761 00:33:34,433 --> 00:33:35,993 How did you do that? 762 00:33:36,073 --> 00:33:38,953 I think I did it when I was sharpening a knife at home. 763 00:33:39,033 --> 00:33:40,553 -Sharpening a knife at home? -Yeah. 764 00:33:40,633 --> 00:33:41,673 A Wiltshire. 765 00:33:41,753 --> 00:33:43,633 See, you've got another... another, um... 766 00:33:43,713 --> 00:33:46,353 ..another cut just to the... just near it. 767 00:33:47,633 --> 00:33:50,313 (EERIE SOUNDSCAPE) 768 00:33:50,393 --> 00:33:52,393 WILSON: You see what I mean? 769 00:33:52,473 --> 00:33:54,473 It's... See, it's...it's... 770 00:33:55,033 --> 00:33:57,153 They appear to me to be fairly recent. 771 00:33:57,233 --> 00:33:59,233 DENYER: Yeah, or a couple of days, I think. 772 00:34:00,513 --> 00:34:02,713 And in...in this case, 773 00:34:02,793 --> 00:34:04,833 um, with Natalie, 774 00:34:04,913 --> 00:34:07,433 it...it was a moment that, 775 00:34:07,513 --> 00:34:10,873 uh, when we did discover the piece of skin, 776 00:34:10,953 --> 00:34:12,833 which is now well documented, 777 00:34:12,913 --> 00:34:15,393 that it was almost a disbelief. 778 00:34:15,473 --> 00:34:19,513 Um, it was in a position, in a place, 779 00:34:19,593 --> 00:34:22,233 where we could've easily missed it. 780 00:34:22,313 --> 00:34:25,553 (EERIE SOUNDSCAPE) 781 00:34:25,633 --> 00:34:26,833 -WILSON: Telling the truth? -DENYER: Yeah! 782 00:34:26,913 --> 00:34:27,913 WILSON: Absolutely telling the truth? 783 00:34:27,993 --> 00:34:29,393 DENYER: Yeah, I'm telling you. I mean... 784 00:34:29,473 --> 00:34:31,113 You couldn't have cut your thumb that way 785 00:34:31,193 --> 00:34:32,793 'cause the sharp edge is underneath. 786 00:34:32,873 --> 00:34:34,633 And again, when I challenge you on that, 787 00:34:34,713 --> 00:34:36,713 I don't think you're telling the truth about that. 788 00:34:36,793 --> 00:34:38,353 Well, I am. 789 00:34:38,433 --> 00:34:41,033 SILVESTER: He sort of looked up at you and stopped 790 00:34:41,113 --> 00:34:43,633 and it was almost the 'gotcha' moment, where... 791 00:34:43,713 --> 00:34:46,273 It was a realisation, certainly from him, 792 00:34:46,353 --> 00:34:48,393 for the first time, I said... 793 00:34:48,473 --> 00:34:50,353 ..there was an indication that I didn't believe him. 794 00:34:50,433 --> 00:34:52,393 'Cause the rest of the time, I was, 795 00:34:52,473 --> 00:34:53,873 as I said, non-confrontational, 796 00:34:53,953 --> 00:34:56,233 "tell your story," and no challenge. 797 00:34:56,313 --> 00:34:57,433 But that was a challenge 798 00:34:57,513 --> 00:34:59,433 because that was clearly 799 00:34:59,513 --> 00:35:01,633 a reaction to a lie. 800 00:35:01,713 --> 00:35:04,953 And he knew it and I knew it at that moment. 801 00:35:05,033 --> 00:35:09,673 It required a high level of skill 802 00:35:09,753 --> 00:35:12,513 to keep that process going 803 00:35:12,593 --> 00:35:17,193 and slowly introduce doubt 804 00:35:17,273 --> 00:35:19,873 into Denyer's mind. 805 00:35:22,193 --> 00:35:23,593 HUGHES: You can get sidetracked too easily, 806 00:35:23,673 --> 00:35:25,073 so you've gotta keep an open mind 807 00:35:25,153 --> 00:35:26,673 and you've gotta make sure those around you 808 00:35:26,753 --> 00:35:27,953 keep you focused on... 809 00:35:28,033 --> 00:35:28,953 (FLASH BULB POPS) 810 00:35:29,033 --> 00:35:31,033 .."This is just another suspect." 811 00:35:31,873 --> 00:35:34,313 Look, it was interesting to see the mechanics. 812 00:35:34,393 --> 00:35:36,353 You know, it's, um, one of those things. 813 00:35:36,433 --> 00:35:37,993 Because we were doing the interview 814 00:35:38,073 --> 00:35:39,673 at the Frankston Police Station, 815 00:35:39,753 --> 00:35:43,273 and we'd all be out in the corridor looking at the monitor. 816 00:35:43,353 --> 00:35:45,273 Didn't ask for a solicitor. 817 00:35:45,353 --> 00:35:47,753 Was happy to answer questions. 818 00:35:47,833 --> 00:35:51,113 Um, and as it went along, 819 00:35:51,193 --> 00:35:52,793 uh, he put himself at every scene. 820 00:35:52,873 --> 00:35:55,393 And, significantly, when Rod asked him 821 00:35:55,473 --> 00:35:57,673 about the injuries to his hand, had an answer for that. 822 00:35:57,753 --> 00:36:00,153 What was his car doing there? He was looking for water. 823 00:36:00,233 --> 00:36:01,673 Car overheated. 824 00:36:01,753 --> 00:36:03,433 "I injured my hand on a fan belt." 825 00:36:03,513 --> 00:36:05,673 Had an answer for everything. Went on and on. 826 00:36:07,593 --> 00:36:10,953 Um, it was really one of those times where, uh... 827 00:36:11,033 --> 00:36:14,393 ..that you really felt like that we did a job 828 00:36:14,473 --> 00:36:16,273 and we did an important job 829 00:36:16,353 --> 00:36:18,593 and it was just an incredible relief 830 00:36:18,673 --> 00:36:20,833 to actually have someone in custody 831 00:36:20,913 --> 00:36:23,593 that they really believed that was him. 832 00:36:23,673 --> 00:36:26,673 (UNSETTLING MUSIC) 833 00:36:38,073 --> 00:36:40,073 WILSON: Do you recall... 834 00:36:41,193 --> 00:36:43,193 ..the, um... 835 00:36:45,153 --> 00:36:47,633 ..another murder prior to... 836 00:36:47,713 --> 00:36:48,673 Yeah, I read... 837 00:36:48,753 --> 00:36:51,273 ..Natalie Russell being found today? 838 00:36:51,353 --> 00:36:53,073 -Debbie Fream? -Yeah. 839 00:36:53,153 --> 00:36:55,153 Yeah, I... 840 00:37:00,513 --> 00:37:02,793 (GRIM MUSIC) 841 00:37:14,233 --> 00:37:15,713 That caused a lot of publicity. 842 00:37:15,793 --> 00:37:16,713 WILSON: Right. 843 00:37:16,793 --> 00:37:18,153 (TAPE REWINDS) 844 00:37:18,233 --> 00:37:20,233 That caused a lot of publicity. 845 00:37:21,153 --> 00:37:22,633 I know how they died. 846 00:37:22,713 --> 00:37:24,993 -How did they die? -Two of them died. 847 00:37:25,073 --> 00:37:26,673 -Well... -Who? 848 00:37:26,753 --> 00:37:29,753 Elizabeth Stevens had her throat cut. 849 00:37:29,833 --> 00:37:31,633 And the other girl, Debbie Fream, 850 00:37:31,713 --> 00:37:33,993 had multiple stab wounds, so... 851 00:37:34,073 --> 00:37:37,113 ..to her body and upper body up here. 852 00:37:40,033 --> 00:37:42,753 -How do you know that? -Oh, I heard it on the telly. 853 00:37:42,833 --> 00:37:44,873 (POIGNANT MUSIC) 854 00:37:44,953 --> 00:37:47,313 BEZZINA: And the whole process and relationships start with... 855 00:37:47,393 --> 00:37:50,033 ..with families of the deceased people 856 00:37:50,113 --> 00:37:52,753 and the relationships you build with them. 857 00:37:52,833 --> 00:37:54,633 And you sit with them in the court 858 00:37:54,713 --> 00:37:56,353 two years, three years later. 859 00:37:56,433 --> 00:37:58,153 Then you sit with them in the inquest. 860 00:37:58,233 --> 00:38:01,113 For them, the world changed. 861 00:38:01,193 --> 00:38:03,993 It could never be, for many of them, 862 00:38:04,073 --> 00:38:08,953 the safe place that it had previously been. 863 00:38:09,033 --> 00:38:11,033 (POIGNANT CHORAL MUSIC) 864 00:38:16,753 --> 00:38:19,193 You indicated with your hand multiple stab wounds 865 00:38:19,273 --> 00:38:20,913 and you stabbed towards your neck here. 866 00:38:20,993 --> 00:38:23,633 Yeah, oh, I said the neck, upper body. 867 00:38:23,713 --> 00:38:25,673 I mean, this is your upper body here, isn't it? 868 00:38:25,753 --> 00:38:26,953 -WILSON: Right. -I mean... 869 00:38:27,033 --> 00:38:28,313 Could've been just here, though. 870 00:38:28,393 --> 00:38:30,273 Could've been just in the shoulder. Might... You know. 871 00:38:30,353 --> 00:38:32,113 It might've been in the back of the neck. 872 00:38:32,193 --> 00:38:33,593 -You indicated right here. -Don't know. 873 00:38:33,673 --> 00:38:35,193 Well, why did you indicate that area? 874 00:38:35,273 --> 00:38:36,993 I was just pointing to that area, that's all. 875 00:38:37,073 --> 00:38:39,073 Well, why did you point to that area? 876 00:38:40,913 --> 00:38:42,673 (LAUGHS NERVOUSLY) I don't know. Just... 877 00:38:42,753 --> 00:38:45,393 SILVESTER: Serial killers, police and psychologists say, 878 00:38:45,473 --> 00:38:46,873 travel in their own orbit. 879 00:38:46,953 --> 00:38:48,353 What else do you know about it? 880 00:38:48,433 --> 00:38:51,073 What motivates them varies from case to case. 881 00:38:51,153 --> 00:38:54,273 But what they share is a lack of remorse. 882 00:38:54,353 --> 00:38:55,953 SILVESTER: How do you do that? 883 00:38:56,033 --> 00:38:58,033 Um, you've seen... 884 00:38:58,873 --> 00:39:00,273 ..the bodies of the victims. 885 00:39:00,353 --> 00:39:02,753 You've seen the extreme trauma 886 00:39:02,833 --> 00:39:04,593 of the relatives. 887 00:39:04,673 --> 00:39:07,393 And you have this person telling you these things matter-of-fact 888 00:39:07,473 --> 00:39:08,513 and you can't... 889 00:39:08,593 --> 00:39:10,233 Do you feel any emotion or... 890 00:39:10,313 --> 00:39:14,833 Um, the...the only emotion that I feel 891 00:39:14,913 --> 00:39:18,873 is that the endgame is the only thing that matters. 892 00:39:18,953 --> 00:39:22,793 Getting this guy to court, getting him convicted, 893 00:39:22,873 --> 00:39:24,353 getting him off the streets 894 00:39:24,433 --> 00:39:27,233 is the only goal we have. 895 00:39:27,313 --> 00:39:29,473 Just...Mr Wilson asked you 896 00:39:29,553 --> 00:39:31,073 before just in relation to the injuries 897 00:39:31,153 --> 00:39:34,873 and you...you mentioned some injuries on Debbie Fream. 898 00:39:34,953 --> 00:39:35,913 -Is that correct? -Mmm. 899 00:39:35,993 --> 00:39:37,873 -That you read in the paper? -Yeah. 900 00:39:37,953 --> 00:39:39,553 What other injuries did you read about, 901 00:39:39,633 --> 00:39:41,233 apart from the multiple stab wounds? 902 00:39:41,313 --> 00:39:42,273 That was all. 903 00:39:42,353 --> 00:39:44,833 If we were to blow that investigation 904 00:39:44,913 --> 00:39:46,513 because we felt frustrated 905 00:39:46,593 --> 00:39:50,073 or did something that, you know...that would jeopardise 906 00:39:50,153 --> 00:39:51,553 that in any way, 907 00:39:51,633 --> 00:39:53,833 then...then you couldn't live with yourself. 908 00:39:53,913 --> 00:39:57,273 Any other injuries that you were told about or you read about? 909 00:39:57,353 --> 00:40:00,073 Oh, yeah, about the... noughts and crosses, yeah. 910 00:40:00,153 --> 00:40:02,273 Or anything else in relation to the other girl? 911 00:40:02,353 --> 00:40:03,993 -The Stevens girl? -Nah. 912 00:40:04,073 --> 00:40:06,833 So, you know, you are playing a bit of a game. 913 00:40:06,913 --> 00:40:11,393 You are... you feel sadness and... 914 00:40:11,473 --> 00:40:13,593 ..you know, especially for the families. 915 00:40:13,673 --> 00:40:16,433 But at the end of the day, it's all about getting him convicted. 916 00:40:16,513 --> 00:40:18,513 And if it means being his best friend, 917 00:40:18,593 --> 00:40:21,033 then that's what you do. 918 00:40:22,633 --> 00:40:26,113 Do you know what day it was when she allegedly went missing? 919 00:40:31,073 --> 00:40:34,473 Thursday night, wasn't it? Yeah, Thursday night. 920 00:40:34,553 --> 00:40:37,033 Do you know what date that was? Do you know what the... 921 00:40:37,113 --> 00:40:39,113 No, I don't remember what date it was. 922 00:40:41,393 --> 00:40:43,513 If I told you that she went missing 923 00:40:43,593 --> 00:40:46,713 on a Thursday night on 8th July... 924 00:40:46,793 --> 00:40:49,393 8th, yeah. You told me that earlier. 8th. 925 00:40:49,473 --> 00:40:50,713 Do you... 926 00:40:50,793 --> 00:40:52,993 Are you able to tell me 927 00:40:53,073 --> 00:40:55,873 your movements on that night? 928 00:40:55,953 --> 00:40:57,353 Yep. 929 00:40:57,433 --> 00:40:59,473 Uh... 930 00:40:59,553 --> 00:41:02,353 I was up at my brother's place during the day. 931 00:41:03,433 --> 00:41:07,393 2:30 or something, between 2:30 and 3:30. 932 00:41:07,473 --> 00:41:09,233 I was there for a while. 933 00:41:09,313 --> 00:41:11,913 So you were up at your brother's place? This is on the Thursday? 934 00:41:11,993 --> 00:41:13,233 -Mm. -Yeah? 935 00:41:13,313 --> 00:41:15,433 Well, that day I was... 936 00:41:15,513 --> 00:41:17,433 The only thing I remember about that day 937 00:41:17,513 --> 00:41:19,913 is I was out the front of my place having a cigarette... 938 00:41:19,993 --> 00:41:21,873 SILVESTER: This lack of guilt means they can plan 939 00:41:21,953 --> 00:41:23,393 each crime without emotion 940 00:41:23,473 --> 00:41:26,113 and conceal their double life from plain sight. 941 00:41:26,193 --> 00:41:29,433 To their few associates, they may seem strange, 942 00:41:29,513 --> 00:41:32,913 but hardly capable of cold-blooded murder. 943 00:41:32,993 --> 00:41:34,753 You know, we're talking six weeks ago 944 00:41:34,833 --> 00:41:36,633 and he remembered that he'd got on the bus 945 00:41:36,713 --> 00:41:39,353 and he remembered that he'd gone to his mother-in-law's... 946 00:41:39,433 --> 00:41:42,313 ..or his girlfriend's mother's for dinner that night. 947 00:41:42,393 --> 00:41:46,233 You know, he remembered such detail that it... 948 00:41:46,313 --> 00:41:48,153 You know, it beggared belief. 949 00:41:48,233 --> 00:41:50,073 If we look at the, um... 950 00:41:50,153 --> 00:41:53,993 These three particular people 951 00:41:54,073 --> 00:41:56,833 that have been murdered, Paul, 952 00:41:56,913 --> 00:42:02,433 yesterday your car was parked opposite the location 953 00:42:02,513 --> 00:42:04,913 where the body of Natalie Russell was found 954 00:42:04,993 --> 00:42:08,153 and you were in the vicinity around the time. 955 00:42:08,233 --> 00:42:11,233 (LEAVES RUSTLE) 956 00:42:12,313 --> 00:42:14,313 Oh, I don't know if I was in the vicinity. 957 00:42:14,393 --> 00:42:16,233 Well, OK, and I'll withdraw that. 958 00:42:16,313 --> 00:42:18,433 You were certainly in the area 959 00:42:18,513 --> 00:42:20,073 of where her body was discovered. 960 00:42:20,153 --> 00:42:21,713 Yeah. 961 00:42:21,793 --> 00:42:23,793 On the night that Debbie Fream disappeared, 962 00:42:23,873 --> 00:42:26,113 you walked over to Kananook railway station, 963 00:42:26,193 --> 00:42:28,273 missed the train and walked back. 964 00:42:28,353 --> 00:42:30,193 Are you saying that is the only night 965 00:42:30,273 --> 00:42:32,833 you missed the train to pick Sharon up? 966 00:42:32,913 --> 00:42:35,033 I've missed it a couple of times before that. 967 00:42:35,113 --> 00:42:37,673 Wherever you went, 968 00:42:37,753 --> 00:42:41,553 people were talking about it in conversation. 969 00:42:41,633 --> 00:42:44,153 You'd be standing in a coffee shop waiting for a coffee 970 00:42:44,233 --> 00:42:48,033 and someone would be talking about Paul Denyer or his arrest. 971 00:42:48,113 --> 00:42:50,113 And on the night... 972 00:42:51,553 --> 00:42:53,873 ..Elizabeth Stevens disappeared, 973 00:42:53,953 --> 00:42:58,233 you walked in a very close proximity to Lloyd Park 974 00:42:58,313 --> 00:43:00,193 on your way to pick up this battery? 975 00:43:00,273 --> 00:43:01,393 Mm-hm. 976 00:43:01,473 --> 00:43:02,993 Do you think that's fairly coincidental? 977 00:43:03,073 --> 00:43:04,153 Yeah, it is. 978 00:43:04,233 --> 00:43:06,153 -All the circumstances? -Yeah. 979 00:43:06,233 --> 00:43:08,393 Why did you pick a storm 980 00:43:08,473 --> 00:43:11,313 to go for a two-hour walk to have a look at a battery? 981 00:43:12,393 --> 00:43:15,913 I don't know. I just felt like walking up there that night. 982 00:43:15,993 --> 00:43:17,553 Well, I suggest to you that's a lie. 983 00:43:17,633 --> 00:43:19,953 -What do you say to that? -I don't reckon it's a lie. 984 00:43:20,033 --> 00:43:21,433 I suggest to you you did not 985 00:43:21,513 --> 00:43:22,873 go to your parents' place that night. 986 00:43:22,953 --> 00:43:24,953 I did. 987 00:43:25,313 --> 00:43:26,993 Have you ever carried a knife? 988 00:43:27,073 --> 00:43:28,913 I've carried a knife a couple of times 989 00:43:28,993 --> 00:43:30,953 when I've walked down to meet my girlfriend 990 00:43:31,033 --> 00:43:32,833 at night at the station. 991 00:43:32,913 --> 00:43:34,433 Why did you carry a knife? 992 00:43:34,513 --> 00:43:36,033 'Cause we had a bit of trouble 993 00:43:36,113 --> 00:43:38,833 with some local kids down in Lloyd Park. 994 00:43:39,833 --> 00:43:41,753 What sort of knife were you carrying? 995 00:43:41,833 --> 00:43:47,353 A Swiss... Like a Swiss Army knife with a corkscrew on it. 996 00:43:47,433 --> 00:43:49,793 Uh, red handle. 997 00:43:49,873 --> 00:43:51,793 And where would you carry that? 998 00:43:51,873 --> 00:43:53,753 Oh, down me sock. 999 00:43:53,833 --> 00:43:55,433 -Down in your sock? -Mm. 1000 00:43:55,513 --> 00:43:57,313 Why not in your pocket? 1001 00:43:57,393 --> 00:43:59,793 Oh, 'cause I had me keys and me smokes in me pocket 1002 00:43:59,873 --> 00:44:01,273 and it's too bulgy. 1003 00:44:01,353 --> 00:44:02,913 -So you put it in your sock? -Yeah. 1004 00:44:02,993 --> 00:44:05,673 Any other knives you've carried on you? 1005 00:44:05,753 --> 00:44:08,513 No, not that I can recall. 1006 00:44:08,593 --> 00:44:10,513 Well, can you think about that? 1007 00:44:10,593 --> 00:44:12,513 WILSON: His level of offending 1008 00:44:12,593 --> 00:44:14,593 had started when he was quite young. 1009 00:44:14,673 --> 00:44:18,273 I think he had issues in his childhood 1010 00:44:18,353 --> 00:44:20,433 with his younger siblings. 1011 00:44:20,513 --> 00:44:23,153 He'd ripped the throats out of a number of their toys. 1012 00:44:23,233 --> 00:44:26,193 That had progressed to killing... 1013 00:44:26,273 --> 00:44:27,753 ..cutting the throats of rabbits, 1014 00:44:27,833 --> 00:44:29,513 to cutting the throats of goats, 1015 00:44:29,593 --> 00:44:31,193 to stalking people, 1016 00:44:31,273 --> 00:44:35,553 to...to approaching people in supermarkets with knives, 1017 00:44:35,633 --> 00:44:38,073 to his attempt to abduct someone... 1018 00:44:39,193 --> 00:44:41,193 ..to killing. 1019 00:44:44,433 --> 00:44:49,233 And they do so without any apparent remorse 1020 00:44:49,313 --> 00:44:51,753 and it seems to help them 1021 00:44:51,833 --> 00:44:54,873 get a sense of control over their environment, 1022 00:44:54,953 --> 00:44:56,393 which they seek 1023 00:44:56,473 --> 00:44:59,433 and, of course, that later manifests itself 1024 00:44:59,513 --> 00:45:01,513 in terrible ways. 1025 00:45:02,313 --> 00:45:07,033 The night that you walked to Kananook railway station, 1026 00:45:07,113 --> 00:45:08,913 the night that Debbie Fream disappeared, 1027 00:45:08,993 --> 00:45:10,513 were you armed with a knife that night? 1028 00:45:10,593 --> 00:45:12,713 -No, no. -Why not? 1029 00:45:13,713 --> 00:45:17,833 Oh, just forgot to take it with me before I left. 1030 00:45:17,913 --> 00:45:21,393 Or I forgot to remember to take it or something. I don't know. 1031 00:45:22,673 --> 00:45:25,033 WILSON: But you were going to the railway station 1032 00:45:25,113 --> 00:45:26,673 on your own at night. 1033 00:45:26,753 --> 00:45:28,713 Mm. 1034 00:45:28,793 --> 00:45:30,033 WILSON: But you didn't that night? 1035 00:45:30,113 --> 00:45:31,993 -DENYER: I didn't. -You forgot? 1036 00:45:32,073 --> 00:45:35,593 I just didn't think of taking it. That's all. 1037 00:45:35,673 --> 00:45:37,673 (THUNDER RUMBLES) 1038 00:45:40,753 --> 00:45:42,993 (THUNDER CRACKS) 1039 00:45:46,833 --> 00:45:49,553 Are you responsible for the deaths of any of these women? 1040 00:45:49,633 --> 00:45:51,633 No. 1041 00:45:54,953 --> 00:45:57,793 Interestingly enough, when you see the interview, 1042 00:45:57,873 --> 00:45:59,393 we have to get permission 1043 00:45:59,473 --> 00:46:02,073 to do what we call a forensic procedure, 1044 00:46:02,153 --> 00:46:04,553 and that permission was asked for, 1045 00:46:04,633 --> 00:46:08,233 that we wanted a hair, blood sample, medical examination, 1046 00:46:08,313 --> 00:46:10,873 and hadn't we got his permission, 1047 00:46:10,953 --> 00:46:14,953 we'd have to then sit down, do a 15-, 20-, 30-page affidavit 1048 00:46:15,033 --> 00:46:17,473 to show to a magistrate or judge 1049 00:46:17,553 --> 00:46:19,913 that he was a significant suspect. 1050 00:46:19,993 --> 00:46:22,833 But we didn't have to go down that path. 1051 00:46:22,913 --> 00:46:28,073 Alright, Paul, do you agree the time is now 12:40am? 1052 00:46:28,153 --> 00:46:29,193 Yes. 1053 00:46:29,273 --> 00:46:30,953 Now, um... 1054 00:46:31,033 --> 00:46:33,513 ..you realise that you are not obliged to say or do anything 1055 00:46:33,593 --> 00:46:35,833 unless you wish to, but whatever you do say... 1056 00:46:35,913 --> 00:46:37,913 And they were just talking casually, 1057 00:46:37,993 --> 00:46:39,473 waiting, biding time 1058 00:46:39,553 --> 00:46:41,473 until the medical doctor arrived 1059 00:46:41,553 --> 00:46:45,513 to take blood samples and other, um... 1060 00:46:46,513 --> 00:46:49,273 ..medical examinations. 1061 00:46:49,353 --> 00:46:51,953 Again, you're not obliged to give a sample of your hair 1062 00:46:52,033 --> 00:46:53,593 as has been explained to you 1063 00:46:53,673 --> 00:46:55,273 in relation to your blood and fingerprints. 1064 00:46:55,353 --> 00:46:58,153 Um, will you give us a sample of your hair? 1065 00:46:58,233 --> 00:47:00,233 -Yeah. -Alright, then. 1066 00:47:02,313 --> 00:47:06,153 And, um, I was praying. 1067 00:47:07,153 --> 00:47:11,513 My prayers were in my mind, under my breath, 1068 00:47:11,593 --> 00:47:13,473 for the truth to come out. 1069 00:47:13,553 --> 00:47:17,353 That's what the community wanted. That's what was right. 1070 00:47:20,633 --> 00:47:26,153 And mid-sentence, between the detective and, um... 1071 00:47:27,153 --> 00:47:28,593 ..himself, 1072 00:47:28,673 --> 00:47:32,633 he just turned to face me. 1073 00:47:32,713 --> 00:47:36,193 He says, "That man there gets in my head," 1074 00:47:36,273 --> 00:47:39,593 like, harsh tone. 1075 00:47:40,673 --> 00:47:43,593 Demeanour had changed. 1076 00:47:43,673 --> 00:47:45,673 Wasn't that calm, collected, 1077 00:47:45,753 --> 00:47:49,633 devoid-of-emotion Paul Denyer you see in the interview. 1078 00:47:49,713 --> 00:47:53,713 It was the only time that I felt 1079 00:47:53,793 --> 00:47:56,833 that you actually got to see 1080 00:47:56,913 --> 00:47:59,993 the evil that the girls had experienced. 1081 00:48:00,993 --> 00:48:03,313 SILVESTER: It took Wilson more than 1,500 questions 1082 00:48:03,393 --> 00:48:05,313 to break Denyer's story. 1083 00:48:05,393 --> 00:48:07,953 The breakthrough came at 4am, 1084 00:48:08,033 --> 00:48:12,473 37 hours after his latest and final murder. 1085 00:48:12,553 --> 00:48:16,553 I believe the Homicide squad detectives left the room, 1086 00:48:16,633 --> 00:48:19,993 getting him a coffee. 1087 00:48:20,073 --> 00:48:22,233 He said, "I did it." 1088 00:48:22,313 --> 00:48:24,433 I said, "Did what?" 1089 00:48:24,513 --> 00:48:27,313 "I committed the murders. I committed all three." 1090 00:48:28,313 --> 00:48:30,833 I did wear a crucifix 1091 00:48:30,913 --> 00:48:34,793 and, um, he must have seen that. 1092 00:48:34,873 --> 00:48:38,113 I said, "OK, hold that thought," 1093 00:48:38,193 --> 00:48:40,193 took him back into the room 1094 00:48:40,273 --> 00:48:44,673 and, um, a Homicide squad detective was nearby. 1095 00:48:44,753 --> 00:48:46,353 I said, "He's admitted the offences," 1096 00:48:46,433 --> 00:48:49,193 and they said, "Stay there. Don't move. 1097 00:48:49,273 --> 00:48:51,793 "Shut the door," and they disappeared. 1098 00:48:51,873 --> 00:48:53,993 Then someone came back down 1099 00:48:54,073 --> 00:48:56,833 and said, "Darren, you're now doing the interview," 1100 00:48:56,913 --> 00:48:58,753 and I went, "OK." 1101 00:48:58,833 --> 00:49:00,953 You told Detective O'Loughlin 1102 00:49:01,033 --> 00:49:02,633 that you were responsible for the murders 1103 00:49:02,713 --> 00:49:04,713 of the three women. 1104 00:49:04,793 --> 00:49:06,713 Is that correct? 1105 00:49:06,793 --> 00:49:10,793 Before we go any further, um, Paul... 1106 00:49:10,873 --> 00:49:15,353 RANKIN: Young Darren O'Loughlin, he walked into the muster room 1107 00:49:15,433 --> 00:49:18,193 and he was ashen 1108 00:49:18,273 --> 00:49:19,953 and he looked out the window 1109 00:49:20,033 --> 00:49:21,633 and I remember looking at him and thinking, 1110 00:49:21,713 --> 00:49:25,113 you know, "He's really... He's had a tough day." 1111 00:49:25,193 --> 00:49:27,353 It was very, very difficult 1112 00:49:27,433 --> 00:49:29,793 sitting through what he just sat through 1113 00:49:29,873 --> 00:49:32,673 and you could see it in his face. 1114 00:49:32,753 --> 00:49:35,233 He was just very quiet. 1115 00:49:36,233 --> 00:49:39,273 I held her hand to make it look like... 1116 00:49:39,353 --> 00:49:42,033 ..you know, a couple, I suppose, 1117 00:49:42,113 --> 00:49:45,153 so we wouldn't arouse any suspicion. 1118 00:49:45,233 --> 00:49:49,233 We walked past two people on the footpath, 1119 00:49:49,313 --> 00:49:52,113 a guy and a girl, and they just didn't take any notice. 1120 00:49:52,193 --> 00:49:53,833 She didn't even scream out or anything? 1121 00:49:53,913 --> 00:49:55,953 No. 1122 00:49:56,033 --> 00:49:59,073 (THUNDER RUMBLES) 1123 00:50:09,873 --> 00:50:11,273 I threw her on the ground 1124 00:50:11,353 --> 00:50:13,153 and stuck my foot over her neck. 1125 00:50:13,233 --> 00:50:15,553 Right. Why did you do that? 1126 00:50:15,633 --> 00:50:18,073 -Oh, to finish it off. -Right. 1127 00:50:20,633 --> 00:50:23,793 As...as a policeman, you... 1128 00:50:24,793 --> 00:50:27,273 ..are not shocked by too many things 1129 00:50:27,353 --> 00:50:31,393 because, unfortunately, you see the worst of human behaviour, 1130 00:50:31,473 --> 00:50:35,033 you've, unfortunately, gone to some horrific crime scenes. 1131 00:50:35,113 --> 00:50:37,273 So, um... 1132 00:50:41,313 --> 00:50:43,833 But there were moments in that interview 1133 00:50:43,913 --> 00:50:45,713 that certainly sat me back in my seat, 1134 00:50:45,793 --> 00:50:50,913 and...and I felt all of us were in that position 1135 00:50:50,993 --> 00:50:56,113 in the way he described some of the ways he murdered a woman. 1136 00:50:56,193 --> 00:50:58,193 Um... 1137 00:51:07,753 --> 00:51:09,193 Just wanted to take a life 1138 00:51:09,273 --> 00:51:13,473 because I felt my life had been taken many times. 1139 00:51:13,553 --> 00:51:15,233 By whom? 1140 00:51:15,313 --> 00:51:20,433 I think that there is considerable evidence about him 1141 00:51:20,513 --> 00:51:25,633 that there may be, um, a pattern 1142 00:51:25,713 --> 00:51:28,593 that you see in a lot of serial killers 1143 00:51:28,673 --> 00:51:31,353 of a traumatic background. 1144 00:51:31,433 --> 00:51:33,993 There wasn't a lot of evidence 1145 00:51:34,073 --> 00:51:38,273 and he hasn't, as I understand, talked very much about it, 1146 00:51:38,353 --> 00:51:40,393 but there's enough for me to suspect 1147 00:51:40,473 --> 00:51:42,873 that he had a traumatic upbringing 1148 00:51:42,953 --> 00:51:47,673 and that many of the things that happened to him 1149 00:51:47,753 --> 00:51:52,913 sowed the seeds of what happened later on. 1150 00:51:54,993 --> 00:51:58,393 DENYER: I broke into her place and killed all of her cats. 1151 00:52:00,313 --> 00:52:02,313 WILSON: Why'd you do that for? 1152 00:52:03,073 --> 00:52:04,513 DENYER: I went there to kill her, 1153 00:52:04,593 --> 00:52:06,593 but she wasn't home. 1154 00:52:13,713 --> 00:52:17,793 You went to Donna's flat on Claude Street to kill her? 1155 00:52:17,873 --> 00:52:19,713 -Yeah. -And she wasn't home? 1156 00:52:19,793 --> 00:52:21,193 No, she wasn't home. 1157 00:52:21,273 --> 00:52:24,713 So you broke in and... What did you do? 1158 00:52:24,793 --> 00:52:26,273 I killed her cats. 1159 00:52:26,353 --> 00:52:28,073 -How many of them? -Three. 1160 00:52:28,153 --> 00:52:30,553 -How did you kill her cats? -Stabbed them. 1161 00:52:32,753 --> 00:52:34,153 When would you say 1162 00:52:34,233 --> 00:52:37,753 that you first had a feeling, this aggression, 1163 00:52:37,833 --> 00:52:40,193 when you were walking around here? 1164 00:52:40,273 --> 00:52:43,913 When did you first start to feel like you had to kill? 1165 00:52:43,993 --> 00:52:46,833 I like to think about it this way. 1166 00:52:46,913 --> 00:52:49,793 You've got genetics and personality 1167 00:52:49,873 --> 00:52:52,313 which load and point the gun 1168 00:52:52,393 --> 00:52:55,073 and it's the environment that fires it. 1169 00:52:56,153 --> 00:52:59,153 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1170 00:53:03,033 --> 00:53:06,033 I started choking her with my hands 1171 00:53:06,113 --> 00:53:09,873 and, uh, she passed out after a while. 1172 00:53:10,873 --> 00:53:12,633 BEZZINA: Everything started falling into place. 1173 00:53:12,713 --> 00:53:17,833 The...the trauma, the fear that she would've gone through, 1174 00:53:17,913 --> 00:53:19,953 it all hits home to you. 1175 00:53:20,953 --> 00:53:22,273 DENYER: The blade broke off. 1176 00:53:22,353 --> 00:53:23,673 WILSON: Where would the blade be? 1177 00:53:23,753 --> 00:53:24,873 DENYER: In the same spot. 1178 00:53:24,953 --> 00:53:27,153 WILSON: Did you break the blade off? 1179 00:53:27,233 --> 00:53:31,193 DENYER: Well, it bent when I was stabbing her. 1180 00:53:31,273 --> 00:53:32,793 The blade went, "Zoom!" 1181 00:53:32,873 --> 00:53:34,793 And then I broke the rest of it off 1182 00:53:34,873 --> 00:53:36,993 and carried it in my pocket 1183 00:53:37,073 --> 00:53:38,873 till I got to there when I dumped it. 1184 00:53:38,953 --> 00:53:41,593 Which side of the road were you on when you dumped it? 1185 00:53:41,673 --> 00:53:43,713 -(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) -There. 1186 00:53:45,033 --> 00:53:46,273 (KNOCK AT DOOR) 1187 00:53:46,353 --> 00:53:48,953 Can you just get that? Thank you. 1188 00:53:49,033 --> 00:53:50,513 Indicate for us. 1189 00:53:50,593 --> 00:53:52,913 The blade's about that long. The handle's about that long. 1190 00:53:52,993 --> 00:53:54,473 It's a folding blade. 1191 00:53:54,553 --> 00:53:57,633 -Oh, yeah, like a folding knife? -Mm, a pocket knife. 1192 00:54:00,633 --> 00:54:04,313 SILVESTER: Elizabeth Stevens was 10 houses from home 1193 00:54:04,393 --> 00:54:06,833 when Denyer dragged her down a side street 1194 00:54:06,913 --> 00:54:09,033 and into a park to die. 1195 00:54:09,113 --> 00:54:11,113 WILSON: Were you angry? 1196 00:54:14,673 --> 00:54:17,673 Happy. Sad. Angry. 1197 00:54:19,473 --> 00:54:20,873 Many things. 1198 00:54:20,953 --> 00:54:24,073 Mixed sort of emotions at the time? Yeah. 1199 00:54:27,193 --> 00:54:29,193 Did... (COUGHS) 1200 00:54:32,553 --> 00:54:37,233 There was no emotion or no remorse or no regret. 1201 00:54:37,313 --> 00:54:40,033 It was just... It was chilling. 1202 00:54:40,113 --> 00:54:43,433 I told her to shut up or else I'd blow her head off. 1203 00:54:43,513 --> 00:54:45,353 Yeah. 1204 00:54:45,433 --> 00:54:47,873 Told her to kiss the end of the gun. (SCOFFS) 1205 00:54:47,953 --> 00:54:50,193 -Did she do that? -No. 1206 00:54:50,273 --> 00:54:52,913 Did you feel any sexual urge towards her... 1207 00:54:54,393 --> 00:54:56,393 ..at any stage? 1208 00:54:57,993 --> 00:54:59,593 I did when I saw her walking, 1209 00:54:59,673 --> 00:55:01,553 but when I grabbed her, it cut off. 1210 00:55:01,633 --> 00:55:03,073 It cut off? Alright. 1211 00:55:03,153 --> 00:55:04,913 Just... (CLICKS TONGUE) 1212 00:55:04,993 --> 00:55:07,993 I grabbed her neck and pushed it up like that. 1213 00:55:08,073 --> 00:55:10,073 Three or four. 1214 00:55:10,833 --> 00:55:12,993 Did you ever strike her in any way? 1215 00:55:13,073 --> 00:55:14,873 -Punch her or anything? -I might have. 1216 00:55:14,953 --> 00:55:16,953 You may have? 1217 00:55:22,593 --> 00:55:24,713 It was an astonishing interview. 1218 00:55:24,793 --> 00:55:26,793 Um... 1219 00:55:27,313 --> 00:55:29,273 I've never seen an offender 1220 00:55:29,353 --> 00:55:34,273 who's committed such serious offences 1221 00:55:34,353 --> 00:55:38,753 not downplay in any way the dreadful things that he did. 1222 00:55:40,873 --> 00:55:42,953 Most of your classic psychopaths 1223 00:55:43,033 --> 00:55:47,113 have no remorse and they have no empathy. 1224 00:55:47,193 --> 00:55:49,873 What they love is attention. 1225 00:55:49,953 --> 00:55:52,953 So this is almost like, um, 1226 00:55:53,033 --> 00:55:56,513 a boastful, triumphant moment. 1227 00:55:56,593 --> 00:55:59,433 "Look, I'm important. 1228 00:55:59,513 --> 00:56:04,313 "I'm successful in what it is that I set out to do. 1229 00:56:04,393 --> 00:56:06,793 "Give me some units of recognition." 1230 00:56:08,113 --> 00:56:10,193 -And... -Beg your pardon? 1231 00:56:10,273 --> 00:56:11,713 I hate 'em. 1232 00:56:11,793 --> 00:56:15,433 Those particular girls or women in general? 1233 00:56:16,953 --> 00:56:19,033 It just wasn't... 1234 00:56:21,353 --> 00:56:23,433 Look, the murder wasn't normal. 1235 00:56:23,513 --> 00:56:27,113 The...the crime wasn't normal. 1236 00:56:27,193 --> 00:56:31,513 It was abhorrent in every sense. 1237 00:56:31,593 --> 00:56:35,673 But the way he described to take a life 1238 00:56:35,753 --> 00:56:38,553 really sat me back in my seat. 1239 00:56:39,953 --> 00:56:42,953 (MUTED AUDIO) 1240 00:56:47,913 --> 00:56:52,673 Like, every day, it was just going up, boiling up 1241 00:56:52,753 --> 00:56:54,993 till I got to that stage. 1242 00:56:59,233 --> 00:57:02,353 Was that the same night as the Deborah Fream incident? 1243 00:57:02,433 --> 00:57:05,433 A couple of hours before, something like that. 1244 00:57:05,513 --> 00:57:08,913 Right. What were you armed with at that stage? 1245 00:57:08,993 --> 00:57:11,553 Knife, bit of rope. 1246 00:57:11,633 --> 00:57:14,393 I mean, that bit of cord, strap. 1247 00:57:14,473 --> 00:57:17,113 And, uh, a gun. 1248 00:57:18,113 --> 00:57:20,113 WILSON: And what happened? 1249 00:57:20,793 --> 00:57:23,553 (SIGHS) I walked up behind her, 1250 00:57:23,633 --> 00:57:26,593 grabbed her with me left hand around her mouth. 1251 00:57:26,673 --> 00:57:28,153 WILSON: Mm-hm. 1252 00:57:28,233 --> 00:57:30,953 Stuck the gun on her head here. 1253 00:57:31,033 --> 00:57:32,273 Mm-hm. 1254 00:57:32,353 --> 00:57:34,353 And, um... 1255 00:57:34,993 --> 00:57:37,953 ..she started talking Spanish or something. 1256 00:57:39,113 --> 00:57:41,873 And, um, I spoke back in Spanish. 1257 00:57:41,953 --> 00:57:43,353 Do you speak Spanish? 1258 00:57:43,433 --> 00:57:46,113 -No, only a few words. -Oh, yeah. 1259 00:57:46,193 --> 00:57:48,873 -Um... -What did you say back to her? 1260 00:57:50,193 --> 00:57:52,593 'Pistola'. Pistol. 1261 00:57:52,673 --> 00:57:54,353 Right. OK. 1262 00:57:54,433 --> 00:57:57,353 And, um, she screamed a bit 1263 00:57:57,433 --> 00:58:01,193 and then bit me on the finger here. 1264 00:58:01,273 --> 00:58:03,233 Oh, right. 1265 00:58:03,313 --> 00:58:05,313 Um... 1266 00:58:05,393 --> 00:58:09,153 I wrestled her. She ran out on the road, but no-one stopped. 1267 00:58:10,193 --> 00:58:11,793 I grabbed her by the hair 1268 00:58:11,873 --> 00:58:14,433 and dragged her back towards the park 1269 00:58:14,513 --> 00:58:16,273 and, um, I said, 1270 00:58:16,353 --> 00:58:18,313 "Shut up or I'll blow your fuckin' head off." 1271 00:58:18,393 --> 00:58:19,433 Right. 1272 00:58:19,513 --> 00:58:21,673 And she said, "OK, OK," 1273 00:58:21,753 --> 00:58:24,593 or, "Sí, sí," in Spanish or something. 1274 00:58:24,673 --> 00:58:27,073 And then... 1275 00:58:27,153 --> 00:58:30,393 (CHUCKLES) And then she stood up 1276 00:58:30,473 --> 00:58:32,873 and went against her word 1277 00:58:32,953 --> 00:58:34,473 and ran out on the road again 1278 00:58:34,553 --> 00:58:36,673 and I just took off into the park. 1279 00:58:45,113 --> 00:58:48,113 And Denyer was determined that night 1280 00:58:48,193 --> 00:58:51,233 and had a strong urge to kill that night 1281 00:58:51,313 --> 00:58:55,113 and she was a very lucky girl to get away. 1282 00:58:55,193 --> 00:58:58,313 Sometime after that, there was a second death 1283 00:58:58,393 --> 00:59:02,753 of a girl by the name of Deborah Fream. 1284 00:59:03,873 --> 00:59:06,913 Can you relate to me how that came about? 1285 00:59:08,953 --> 00:59:11,233 While she was in the milk bar I walked to the car 1286 00:59:11,313 --> 00:59:15,153 and, um...and checked the driver's door - it was unlocked. 1287 00:59:15,233 --> 00:59:16,473 Right. 1288 00:59:16,553 --> 00:59:18,353 So I opened the door, put my hand through 1289 00:59:18,433 --> 00:59:19,953 and unlocked the back door. 1290 00:59:20,033 --> 00:59:21,113 Right. 1291 00:59:21,193 --> 00:59:23,873 Then I hopped in the car 1292 00:59:23,953 --> 00:59:26,273 and crouched down behind the seat 1293 00:59:26,353 --> 00:59:29,033 and pulled out the gun that I had. 1294 00:59:29,113 --> 00:59:31,873 (EERIE MUSIC) 1295 00:59:37,473 --> 00:59:40,273 I startled her just as she was doing that turn 1296 00:59:40,353 --> 00:59:43,633 and she kept going straight into the wall of the milk bar. 1297 00:59:43,713 --> 00:59:46,193 I told her to, you know, shut up 1298 00:59:46,273 --> 00:59:49,393 or I'd blow her head off and all of that shit. 1299 00:59:49,473 --> 00:59:52,753 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1300 00:59:58,793 --> 01:00:00,473 WILSON: What did you do then? 1301 01:00:00,553 --> 01:00:02,993 Then I was gonna strangle her, 1302 01:00:03,073 --> 01:00:06,353 but I didn't want her to see the cord go over first. 1303 01:00:06,433 --> 01:00:08,353 Were you behind her at this point? 1304 01:00:08,433 --> 01:00:10,433 Yeah, standing behind her. 1305 01:00:11,193 --> 01:00:13,873 RANKIN: Denyer just, um... 1306 01:00:15,113 --> 01:00:18,313 ..just made a very frank confession 1307 01:00:18,393 --> 01:00:22,633 and as horrifying as it was to hear, um, 1308 01:00:22,713 --> 01:00:24,113 what he told us, of course, 1309 01:00:24,193 --> 01:00:26,513 was supported by all the evidence 1310 01:00:26,593 --> 01:00:29,753 that had been recovered at the crime scenes. 1311 01:00:30,753 --> 01:00:32,753 WILSON: What are you looking for? 1312 01:00:34,633 --> 01:00:36,553 Oh, just looking at the tread. 1313 01:00:36,633 --> 01:00:38,073 Why's that? 1314 01:00:38,153 --> 01:00:40,153 Uh... 1315 01:00:42,553 --> 01:00:44,593 I melted them...melted them down 1316 01:00:44,673 --> 01:00:47,353 so you wouldn't be able to trace my shoes. 1317 01:00:47,433 --> 01:00:52,873 I'm assuming that he would have quite disordered thinking 1318 01:00:52,953 --> 01:00:57,713 and he would almost lose contact with reality sometime. 1319 01:00:57,793 --> 01:01:00,273 So a lot of the things that he thought, 1320 01:01:00,353 --> 01:01:02,193 a lot of the things that he did 1321 01:01:02,273 --> 01:01:05,633 make absolutely no sense to us. 1322 01:01:05,713 --> 01:01:07,113 What you have to understand 1323 01:01:07,193 --> 01:01:12,033 is that there are delusions and there are hallucinations. 1324 01:01:12,113 --> 01:01:15,593 Delusions are odd beliefs, fixed beliefs 1325 01:01:15,673 --> 01:01:20,433 which bear no resemblance to reality. 1326 01:01:20,513 --> 01:01:22,993 So a lot of the things that they do 1327 01:01:23,073 --> 01:01:25,473 might make sense to them, 1328 01:01:25,553 --> 01:01:27,713 but it makes no sense to us at the time. 1329 01:01:29,833 --> 01:01:31,833 How did you feel after it? 1330 01:01:34,793 --> 01:01:37,673 Like the temperature gauge was coming down. 1331 01:01:40,153 --> 01:01:41,553 In here. 1332 01:01:41,633 --> 01:01:43,033 What do you mean? 1333 01:01:43,113 --> 01:01:45,753 I was going up to boiling point 1334 01:01:45,833 --> 01:01:48,033 and then afterwards it just came down 1335 01:01:48,113 --> 01:01:51,713 till it was stopped and level and then climbed up again. 1336 01:01:51,793 --> 01:01:54,993 You're referring to what type of feeling? 1337 01:01:55,073 --> 01:01:57,193 Hate, anger. 1338 01:01:58,553 --> 01:02:00,833 He was officially charged 1339 01:02:00,913 --> 01:02:03,553 with the murders and the attempted abduction. 1340 01:02:04,793 --> 01:02:07,833 And the elation I couldn't explain. 1341 01:02:07,913 --> 01:02:11,193 Um, we'd stitched it up. 1342 01:02:11,273 --> 01:02:12,393 (FLASH WHIRRS) 1343 01:02:12,473 --> 01:02:14,473 (BULB POPS) 1344 01:02:18,153 --> 01:02:21,153 (MOURNFUL MUSIC) 1345 01:02:27,473 --> 01:02:29,473 SILVESTER: As he would later tell police, 1346 01:02:29,553 --> 01:02:33,393 "I've always wanted to kill since I was 14. 1347 01:02:33,473 --> 01:02:36,793 "I've been stalking women since I was 17, 1348 01:02:36,873 --> 01:02:38,913 "waiting for that opportunity, 1349 01:02:38,993 --> 01:02:41,473 "waiting for the sign." 1350 01:02:41,553 --> 01:02:44,913 We all decided to go to the pub at about 7:00 in the morning. 1351 01:02:44,993 --> 01:02:47,153 I think we had one beer. 1352 01:02:59,513 --> 01:03:01,273 WILSON: That's the green jacket 1353 01:03:01,353 --> 01:03:02,753 you were wearing on the night of... 1354 01:03:02,833 --> 01:03:04,073 DENYER: Yeah, Elizabeth Stevens. 1355 01:03:04,153 --> 01:03:06,233 Elizabeth Stevens. The green army jacket? 1356 01:03:06,313 --> 01:03:08,313 DENYER: Yeah. 1357 01:03:08,833 --> 01:03:10,433 -O'LOUGHLIN: This one? -DENYER: That's the one. 1358 01:03:10,513 --> 01:03:12,713 50 days straight without a break 1359 01:03:12,793 --> 01:03:15,433 'cause we knew the pressure was on 1360 01:03:15,513 --> 01:03:18,393 and we had to have answers for the community. 1361 01:03:18,473 --> 01:03:21,073 They were looking to us. We can't look behind us. 1362 01:03:21,153 --> 01:03:23,193 It was us. The buck stops with us. 1363 01:03:23,273 --> 01:03:25,593 We had to stop the killing. 1364 01:03:25,673 --> 01:03:27,513 The...the damage continues. 1365 01:03:27,593 --> 01:03:28,993 It's been my experience 1366 01:03:29,073 --> 01:03:33,513 that, um, marriages break up, 1367 01:03:33,593 --> 01:03:38,153 people grieve in very different ways 1368 01:03:38,233 --> 01:03:42,073 and they...they can't 1369 01:03:42,153 --> 01:03:46,873 ever forget or come to terms. 1370 01:03:46,953 --> 01:03:50,913 The notion of closure is really... 1371 01:03:50,993 --> 01:03:54,393 ..is really totally irrelevant in these areas. 1372 01:03:57,953 --> 01:03:59,233 (BLOWS) 1373 01:03:59,313 --> 01:04:01,113 The way you operate it... 1374 01:04:01,193 --> 01:04:03,313 -(BANG) -And that just shoots a... 1375 01:04:03,393 --> 01:04:04,993 -It shoots a... -A ball bearing or something? 1376 01:04:05,073 --> 01:04:06,473 Yeah, that's got a hole in it. 1377 01:04:06,553 --> 01:04:09,713 Was that the weapon you used to, um... 1378 01:04:09,793 --> 01:04:13,233 When you first approached Elizabeth Stevens? 1379 01:04:13,313 --> 01:04:14,753 Yeah, that's...that's the one. 1380 01:04:14,833 --> 01:04:16,433 And the same with Deborah Fream? 1381 01:04:16,513 --> 01:04:17,753 Yep. 1382 01:04:17,833 --> 01:04:20,193 Same as the woman at Seaford railway station? 1383 01:04:20,273 --> 01:04:22,273 Yep. 1384 01:04:23,113 --> 01:04:25,913 The knife that was used to, uh... 1385 01:04:25,993 --> 01:04:29,153 ..you used on Debbie Fream, you said you put into... 1386 01:04:29,233 --> 01:04:31,433 -In the ceiling up there. -Into the ceiling up there? 1387 01:04:31,513 --> 01:04:36,113 So if you can just move over and indicate that. 1388 01:04:37,513 --> 01:04:39,553 -There. -Was it there or that one? 1389 01:04:39,633 --> 01:04:42,073 That one and I pushed it across with a bit of wire. 1390 01:04:42,153 --> 01:04:43,673 So it's actually behind... 1391 01:04:43,753 --> 01:04:46,153 -It's in the middle there. -Right. 1392 01:04:47,153 --> 01:04:48,753 When were you in this jumper, sorry? 1393 01:04:48,833 --> 01:04:50,473 -Uh... -The night of Debbie Fream? 1394 01:04:50,553 --> 01:04:52,233 Debbie Fream. Yeah, that's the one. 1395 01:04:52,313 --> 01:04:54,313 OK. 1396 01:04:55,033 --> 01:04:57,033 Alright. 1397 01:05:06,233 --> 01:05:08,753 RANKIN: The relief when he was apprehended 1398 01:05:08,833 --> 01:05:12,073 was just...was just incredible. 1399 01:05:12,153 --> 01:05:15,473 I don't think there's been too many criminals 1400 01:05:15,553 --> 01:05:17,673 in the history of Victoria... 1401 01:05:19,553 --> 01:05:22,793 ..that have terrified a community like Paul Denyer did. 1402 01:05:23,793 --> 01:05:26,793 (MOURNFUL MUSIC) 1403 01:05:40,433 --> 01:05:43,353 WILSON: And Paul Denyer would later say in the interview 1404 01:05:43,433 --> 01:05:46,993 that as he had finished murdering Natalie Russell, 1405 01:05:47,073 --> 01:05:48,553 he was walking back to the car 1406 01:05:48,633 --> 01:05:51,233 and he saw the police at the vehicle... 1407 01:05:52,233 --> 01:05:54,473 ..and he put his bloodstained hands into his pocket 1408 01:05:54,553 --> 01:05:56,553 and walked the other way. 1409 01:05:58,873 --> 01:06:01,873 (EERIE MUSIC) 1410 01:06:10,233 --> 01:06:12,713 SILVESTER: If police hadn't logged the car at the time, 1411 01:06:12,793 --> 01:06:15,193 Denyer would not have been placed at the crime scene 1412 01:06:15,273 --> 01:06:17,993 and would have been free to kill again. 1413 01:06:19,313 --> 01:06:22,393 Sometimes it's the little things. 1414 01:06:22,473 --> 01:06:24,113 And you said something about the knife 1415 01:06:24,193 --> 01:06:27,873 used to...on Natalie Russell? 1416 01:06:27,953 --> 01:06:29,393 Yeah, I left it in there. 1417 01:06:29,473 --> 01:06:31,593 WILSON: Alright, I believe... I believe the knife's 1418 01:06:31,673 --> 01:06:34,753 been collected out of there and has been taken by Forensics. 1419 01:06:34,833 --> 01:06:37,193 -But you put it in there... -Yeah, I left it in there. 1420 01:06:37,273 --> 01:06:39,353 -..at some stage on the Friday? -Yeah. 1421 01:06:41,793 --> 01:06:44,113 Just located the handle of the, um... 1422 01:06:46,593 --> 01:06:49,393 Just put it up here and I'll just... 1423 01:06:49,473 --> 01:06:50,873 That's the one you made? 1424 01:06:50,953 --> 01:06:52,673 DENYER: Yeah, that's kind of... That's the thickest. 1425 01:06:52,753 --> 01:06:55,353 -And was that taped with tape? -Yeah. 1426 01:06:55,433 --> 01:06:57,553 And you just got that from down on the ground there? 1427 01:06:57,633 --> 01:06:59,633 Yeah. 1428 01:07:00,113 --> 01:07:02,113 -This is the grey jumper? -Yep. 1429 01:07:03,073 --> 01:07:05,153 -When did you have this one on? -Yesterday. 1430 01:07:05,233 --> 01:07:06,873 Yesterday. 1431 01:07:06,953 --> 01:07:09,313 Did this have blood on it at some stage? 1432 01:07:09,393 --> 01:07:11,513 -Yeah, it would have. -OK. 1433 01:07:24,793 --> 01:07:27,793 And, sure, you can see a monster 1434 01:07:27,873 --> 01:07:31,833 in the way he cold-heartedly 1435 01:07:31,913 --> 01:07:34,113 and without pity 1436 01:07:34,193 --> 01:07:36,913 provided admissions to those murders. 1437 01:07:36,993 --> 01:07:41,793 But as I said before, the rage was suppressed, 1438 01:07:41,873 --> 01:07:44,393 the anger was suppressed. 1439 01:07:44,473 --> 01:07:47,353 Um, in no way, shape or form 1440 01:07:47,433 --> 01:07:49,513 I felt that you saw 1441 01:07:49,593 --> 01:07:52,233 the characteristics of the viciousness, 1442 01:07:52,313 --> 01:07:55,873 the violent, abhorrent crimes 1443 01:07:55,953 --> 01:07:58,473 that was committed against those women. 1444 01:08:08,713 --> 01:08:10,833 -You took her through this hole? -Yeah. 1445 01:08:10,913 --> 01:08:12,313 Right, and, uh... 1446 01:08:12,393 --> 01:08:14,393 I dragged her through here. 1447 01:08:21,433 --> 01:08:25,873 But I was determined not to become...defeated by it. 1448 01:08:25,953 --> 01:08:30,833 I'd made that decision to overcome it and move forward, 1449 01:08:30,913 --> 01:08:34,713 but, you know, in saying that, it's, uh... 1450 01:08:34,793 --> 01:08:37,433 ..it's just as hard for me now to talk about this 1451 01:08:37,513 --> 01:08:38,993 as it was 30 years ago. 1452 01:08:39,073 --> 01:08:44,233 You know, you sort of think that it gets easier, but it doesn't. 1453 01:08:44,313 --> 01:08:45,953 You just learn to deal with it. 1454 01:08:46,033 --> 01:08:47,433 Um... 1455 01:08:47,513 --> 01:08:50,473 But, you know, it hurts still. 1456 01:08:59,313 --> 01:09:01,553 WILSON: The scene where he killed Natalie Russell, 1457 01:09:01,633 --> 01:09:04,313 he had other lairs cut into the golf course, 1458 01:09:04,393 --> 01:09:05,873 into the tea-tree area, 1459 01:09:05,953 --> 01:09:10,633 and one of those was where he buried Deborah Fream's purse 1460 01:09:10,713 --> 01:09:13,513 with her ID in it, just like a trophy. 1461 01:09:13,593 --> 01:09:17,473 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 1462 01:09:17,553 --> 01:09:20,473 Eventually he found it and he pulled the purse out 1463 01:09:20,553 --> 01:09:22,753 and he pulled the licence out, "Deborah Fream!" 1464 01:09:22,833 --> 01:09:25,113 WILSON: So that's the location where you buried the purse? 1465 01:09:25,193 --> 01:09:26,713 -DENYER: Yeah. -And who's that purse belong to? 1466 01:09:26,793 --> 01:09:31,713 Debbie Fream. Her ID is buried around here somewhere. 1467 01:09:32,953 --> 01:09:34,953 Is her ID not in the purse? 1468 01:09:37,873 --> 01:09:39,393 You burnt them, did you? 1469 01:09:39,473 --> 01:09:41,233 -Did you burn those? -Yeah. 1470 01:09:41,313 --> 01:09:43,513 -Where did you burn those? -Here. 1471 01:09:43,593 --> 01:09:45,593 Put them in. 1472 01:09:47,873 --> 01:09:49,673 DENYER: That's it. 1473 01:09:49,753 --> 01:09:51,753 (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) 1474 01:09:55,873 --> 01:09:58,393 SILVESTER: There are certain facts about Denyer's crimes 1475 01:09:58,473 --> 01:10:02,633 that no matter how hard you try, you just can't forget. 1476 01:10:02,713 --> 01:10:06,113 How he walked on the grass so his footsteps would be silenced 1477 01:10:06,193 --> 01:10:08,473 as he stalked Elizabeth Stevens. 1478 01:10:08,553 --> 01:10:10,953 How he held the terrified girl's hand 1479 01:10:11,033 --> 01:10:14,153 as if they were boyfriend and girlfriend 1480 01:10:14,233 --> 01:10:16,633 in some obscene pantomime. 1481 01:10:18,913 --> 01:10:22,433 How he crept into the back seat of Debbie Fream's car, 1482 01:10:22,513 --> 01:10:24,273 then sprung up so quickly 1483 01:10:24,353 --> 01:10:27,233 she lost control while performing a U-turn 1484 01:10:27,313 --> 01:10:30,593 and clipped into the side of a building, 1485 01:10:30,673 --> 01:10:32,633 and she drove head-on at another car 1486 01:10:32,713 --> 01:10:34,273 to try and raise the alarm 1487 01:10:34,353 --> 01:10:36,833 only for Denyer to wrestle the wheel from her. 1488 01:10:38,313 --> 01:10:41,593 How he made her drive through countless streets in the dark 1489 01:10:41,673 --> 01:10:44,313 until he found his preferred murder site. 1490 01:10:46,473 --> 01:10:49,633 How he cut two lairs on the track between golf courses 1491 01:10:49,713 --> 01:10:52,553 and crouched in his car, waiting for a woman, 1492 01:10:52,633 --> 01:10:55,513 any woman, to walk past. 1493 01:10:56,873 --> 01:10:58,633 How when he grabbed Natalie Russell, 1494 01:10:58,713 --> 01:11:01,073 she must have known it was the serial killer 1495 01:11:01,153 --> 01:11:03,313 and how she begged for her life. 1496 01:11:05,113 --> 01:11:06,713 And how Denyer would later tell police 1497 01:11:06,793 --> 01:11:08,913 he found that disgusting. 1498 01:11:08,993 --> 01:11:11,273 (SOMBRE MUSIC) 1499 01:11:19,633 --> 01:11:22,673 Denyer, who had terrorised Frankston for weeks, 1500 01:11:22,753 --> 01:11:26,233 left in a cage, secured in handcuffs. 1501 01:11:26,313 --> 01:11:28,513 The killing spree was over. 1502 01:11:28,593 --> 01:11:30,273 MAN: Die, you scumbag! 1503 01:11:30,353 --> 01:11:32,553 (PEOPLE SHOUT INDISTINCTLY) 1504 01:11:34,913 --> 01:11:37,913 (MOURNFUL MUSIC) 1505 01:11:39,433 --> 01:11:41,233 SILVESTER: Denyer hunted his victims. 1506 01:11:41,313 --> 01:11:43,553 He showed them no mercy. 1507 01:11:43,633 --> 01:11:46,833 He did his crimes beyond reasonable doubt. 1508 01:11:47,833 --> 01:11:49,953 SILVESTER: You sentenced Denyer to life, no minimum? 1509 01:11:50,033 --> 01:11:52,793 -Yes, I did. -And...? 1510 01:11:52,873 --> 01:11:57,033 Well, the Court of Appeal said that that was, uh... 1511 01:11:58,353 --> 01:12:00,833 ..excessive in the circumstances. 1512 01:12:00,913 --> 01:12:04,193 I remember when he was sentencing Denyer 1513 01:12:04,273 --> 01:12:05,713 his voice broke 1514 01:12:05,793 --> 01:12:08,913 and, um, I think when... 1515 01:12:08,993 --> 01:12:11,433 That was unusual for me certainly, 1516 01:12:11,513 --> 01:12:13,113 sitting in the Supreme Court 1517 01:12:13,193 --> 01:12:16,913 and seeing a judge displaying such emotion 1518 01:12:16,993 --> 01:12:20,153 sentencing a criminal. 1519 01:12:22,553 --> 01:12:26,953 And I thought about who the real victims were. 1520 01:12:27,033 --> 01:12:32,113 Of course there were the young women who were killed 1521 01:12:32,193 --> 01:12:36,833 and their families and those around their families 1522 01:12:36,913 --> 01:12:39,233 and those who'd been involved 1523 01:12:39,313 --> 01:12:44,873 in...in this hunt for the killer. 1524 01:12:44,953 --> 01:12:49,233 But there were also many thousands 1525 01:12:49,313 --> 01:12:52,913 of women and others out there 1526 01:12:52,993 --> 01:12:57,593 who had for a period of time lived with this fear. 1527 01:12:57,673 --> 01:13:01,153 He...he made a comment that has stuck with me for years 1528 01:13:01,233 --> 01:13:03,273 and it was along the lines of, 1529 01:13:03,353 --> 01:13:04,913 "You are the reason 1530 01:13:04,993 --> 01:13:08,513 "people quicken their step on the way home 1531 01:13:08,593 --> 01:13:12,793 "and the reason a parent looks anxiously at the clock 1532 01:13:12,873 --> 01:13:15,673 "because their child is running late." 1533 01:13:17,633 --> 01:13:20,473 LIMBRICK: Uh, when he was reading out 1534 01:13:20,553 --> 01:13:23,353 the details of what happened, 1535 01:13:23,433 --> 01:13:26,113 that was such a shock to me 1536 01:13:26,193 --> 01:13:28,993 that, um, I was totally unprepared for it 1537 01:13:29,073 --> 01:13:31,073 and, yeah, I sort of... 1538 01:13:31,153 --> 01:13:34,193 I think I blacked out a bit and, um, left. 1539 01:13:34,273 --> 01:13:36,473 Precedent dictates that if a person pleads guilty, 1540 01:13:36,553 --> 01:13:38,473 they must get a discount. 1541 01:13:38,553 --> 01:13:41,393 I say change precedent. Change it. 1542 01:13:41,473 --> 01:13:46,073 He got natural life for each one for 30 years minimum. 1543 01:13:46,153 --> 01:13:48,953 Now next year he's up for parole. 1544 01:13:49,033 --> 01:13:51,593 REPORTER: For the family and friends of Natalie Russell, 1545 01:13:51,673 --> 01:13:53,673 this is the latest painful step 1546 01:13:53,753 --> 01:13:56,073 in a journey that started 28 years ago. 1547 01:13:56,153 --> 01:13:58,953 It's just something you don't get over. It's... 1548 01:13:59,033 --> 01:14:00,993 You learn to get out of bed every morning 1549 01:14:01,073 --> 01:14:02,833 and put one foot in front of the other, 1550 01:14:02,913 --> 01:14:05,113 but it's there in front of you all the time. 1551 01:14:06,793 --> 01:14:09,913 She was a vibrant, happy, intelligent girl 1552 01:14:09,993 --> 01:14:11,993 and the places she would've gone... 1553 01:14:13,073 --> 01:14:15,073 She was my girlfriend. 1554 01:14:16,633 --> 01:14:19,113 What we are asking the government to do... 1555 01:14:20,753 --> 01:14:24,473 ..is to make sure that Paul Denyer stays locked up forever. 1556 01:14:24,553 --> 01:14:26,073 Yeah, there's not a woman in Frankston 1557 01:14:26,153 --> 01:14:28,473 that doesn't check her back seat before she gets in the car. 1558 01:14:28,553 --> 01:14:31,433 The only...the only thing that gave us any consolation 1559 01:14:31,513 --> 01:14:33,113 was the fact that he was locked up 1560 01:14:33,193 --> 01:14:34,873 and couldn't do this to any other family. 1561 01:14:34,953 --> 01:14:36,353 And guess what. 1562 01:14:36,433 --> 01:14:38,473 The government now have to legislate... 1563 01:14:38,553 --> 01:14:40,433 And I hope that they do. 1564 01:14:40,513 --> 01:14:43,633 They need to legislate to keep this animal 1565 01:14:43,713 --> 01:14:46,073 in jail where he belongs 1566 01:14:46,153 --> 01:14:48,633 because he's never gonna be fixed, 1567 01:14:48,713 --> 01:14:50,553 he's programmed that way, 1568 01:14:50,633 --> 01:14:53,033 and we need to keep the community safe. 1569 01:14:54,513 --> 01:14:56,033 SILVESTER: While in prison, 1570 01:14:56,113 --> 01:14:58,113 Denyer claimed he was transitioning 1571 01:14:58,193 --> 01:14:59,633 and for a period of time 1572 01:14:59,713 --> 01:15:02,273 wanted to be referred to as 'Paula'. 1573 01:15:02,353 --> 01:15:05,353 At one point, he suggested his crimes 1574 01:15:05,433 --> 01:15:08,273 were due to the fact that he hated women 1575 01:15:08,353 --> 01:15:10,353 because he wanted to be one. 1576 01:15:10,433 --> 01:15:13,833 All of this is totally irrelevant to what he did. 1577 01:15:13,913 --> 01:15:16,993 It's not an excuse. It's not a reason. 1578 01:15:17,073 --> 01:15:19,073 He was fully aware of what he was doing. 1579 01:15:19,153 --> 01:15:20,913 He went out to murder. 1580 01:15:20,993 --> 01:15:24,593 Now in prison, 1581 01:15:24,673 --> 01:15:26,713 he's returned to 'Paul' Denyer. 1582 01:15:26,793 --> 01:15:28,993 If ever I've seen a person... 1583 01:15:30,313 --> 01:15:35,873 ..who doesn't deserve freedom, it's Paul Denyer. 1584 01:15:36,873 --> 01:15:38,873 He'll never... 1585 01:15:39,513 --> 01:15:42,793 ..he'll never not be a risk to the community. 1586 01:15:42,873 --> 01:15:44,873 Never. 1587 01:15:45,633 --> 01:15:48,153 We have to be sure 100% 1588 01:15:48,233 --> 01:15:52,633 that Paul Charles Denyer is no longer a risk to women. 1589 01:15:52,713 --> 01:15:55,433 No-one can give that guarantee. 1590 01:15:55,513 --> 01:15:58,433 The conclusion is inevitable. 1591 01:15:58,513 --> 01:16:00,593 Denyer must remain in prison 1592 01:16:00,673 --> 01:16:04,473 until he is so infirmed he can't be a risk 1593 01:16:04,553 --> 01:16:06,473 or he's dead - 1594 01:16:06,553 --> 01:16:10,513 the very sentence Frank Vincent gave him in the first place.