WEBVTT FILE

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Downloaded from
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[cheers and applause]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[Shaunagh] This is not just about rugby,

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this is not just about the sport.

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It's about women
and it's about women's sport,

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and it's about putting us on a platform,

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and knowing that we can do it.

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I challenge anyone to say that
women's rugby is not good enough

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and women are not enough,
'cause we are.

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[triumphant music]

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I'm still surprised,
in 2021 that people...

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are surprised that women even play rugby.

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[Sue] I think women's rugby
is so far behind men's.

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If you think about the time
at which more formal rugby started,

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women really there were considered
so frail and weak.

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People used to come and watch a game

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because they wanted a laugh
at women rolling around in the mud.

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So many people, men and women

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believe women shouldn't be playing sport,
shouldn't be playing rugby.

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[Sue] Young girls growing up,
if they don't see female athletes

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being celebrated
in the way male athletes are,

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what is it going to say to them?

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[reporter] Despite a healthy
press interest back at Twickenham today,

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there are no plans for the women's game
to go professional.

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Apparently, we're second-class citizens,

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and that's just how we're supposed
to be treated.

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[Victoria] It's tough for female athletes.

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They just wanna play a sport they love.

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No matter what level it is,
you tend to find that

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they'll face a lot of abuse for it,
whether it's at grass roots

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or international level,
in person or online.

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I actually push back really hard
against this idea of,

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"Don't worry, it'll make you stronger,"

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'cause it doesn't,
it stays with you forever.

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[Shaunagh] So my career path, in brief,

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is pretty much started playing rugby
at Medway Rugby Club in 2015.

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Had my first game in December 2015,

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and was playing for England
by November 2017,

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less than two years later.

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I'm Shaunagh Brown

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and I currently play rugby for Harlequins
in England as a tighthead prop.

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Before rugby,
I was very much into my athletics.

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It was shot-put and discus
and, eventually, hammer throw as well.

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And then my ultimate in the career was

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competing for England
at the Commonwealth Games in 2014,

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throwing a hammer, made it to the final.

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[upbeat music playing]

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That was what I had done before rugby.

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But even within that I would do,
sort of, anything that came up

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in terms of opportunity
to try different sports.

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I tried Highland games,
Strong Woman competitions, boxing,

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anything that was offered to me,
I would try and say yes to,

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and I think that's part of why I've been
so successful so quickly in rugby.

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It's just because
of my sporting background,

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like, in having a great foundation
to go and do any sport.

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From the Commonwealth Games,

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I kind of was
on a bit of a low with it all

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and, sort of, started falling
out of love with the sport,

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and instead of just either carrying on
and being unhappy

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or just stopping altogether,

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I thought I'll look for a new challenge.

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And literally, just looked up
my local rugby club.

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Emailed them, said, "Can I come and play?"

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And they went, "Yeah, of course, you can.

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We train once a week, on a Tuesday.

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You're very welcome to come down."

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And so I did, with my mum, my superfan.

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I'm 25 years old and my mum's
introducing me, like,

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"This is Shaunagh.

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She's never played before, can she play?"

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I'm like, "Mum, I'm 25,
I can do it myself."

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But yeah, she was very much present
for my first session.

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And even now,
Mum is my superwoman, superfan.

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I suppose, looking back, she has
always been the person that she is.

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When she was younger,
she always had male boyfriends.

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Not boyfriends but male friends.

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All her friends were always boys.

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You know, and she played football,

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she hung upside down on the monkeybars,

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and would say,
"Don't make me wear a dress

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'cause I don't want to show my
knickers off," you know, stuff like that.

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Growing up, would you agree
that I was a tomboy?

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Definitely.

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And what about... [clicks tongue] er...

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like, transgender? Did you ever think
that I wanted to be a boy?

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-No.
-No.

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I used to get that constantly,
the question.

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Not even a question, they'd say,
"Oh, you wanna be a boy."

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'Cause of how I used to do my hair.

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Do you remember,
how I used to do my hair with plaits?

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It was always like,
"Are you a boy or a girl?"

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I'm like, "I'm a girl."

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But I had that when I was younger,
I was a tomboy.

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Not as much as you,

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'cause I grew out of mine.

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I had my hair cut short,
shaved and everything.

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And people used to think I was a boy.

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I remember sitting on the bus once

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and a group of people thought I was a boy.

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[Stef] I think there are probably
a lot of women in the world

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that are naturally
not afraid of physicality,

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not afraid of contact
and not afraid of being strong.

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And there are very few places that...

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women with that mentality
get to exist, but also excel,

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and I think that's why rugby
resonated so deeply with me.

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I'm Stef Evans,
I play for Bristol Bears women

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and I founded Ruggette RFC.

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It's exciting.

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I started playing
when I was in high school.

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I tried other sports,
I really wanted to be good at a sport,

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and I just couldn't find one
that I felt good at.

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There's also not a lot of contact sports
available for girls

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or physical sports
available for girls in school.

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When a friend of mine asked me to come
try out for rugby in grade ten,

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I've never seen a rugby game before
in my entire life.

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I didn't even know
what the ball looked like.

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And I went to my first practice,

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and there was an introductory element
of contact to it,

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which really blew my mind.

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I had no idea what the rules were,
still, and I was like, "Done, I'm in."

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And I was like, alright, I'm gonna,
for the next little while,

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I'm gonna, put everything
and to see how far I can take this.

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And I'm gonna go until the point
where somebody says, you know...

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You wanna leave the jersey and the game
as a whole better than you found it

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and nobody is doing it
without a huge level of love

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and determination and passion.

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And I think, maybe we wouldn't
love it as much if the game wasn't as...

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as empowering or as freeing,
as it is for a lot of us.

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There's not that many opportunities
for the type of female

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that excels in rugby to excel elsewhere
in the same way.

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You know, we need the sport just as much
as the sport needs us.

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[Shaunagh] For me, playing rugby
for Harlequins is all I know.

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I had-- My first club
was Medway Rugby Club,

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which I was at for half a season
and ever since then

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I've only ever known the Harlequins'
way of playing rugby.

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My whole rugby life is Harlequins.

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So for me, it is a special club to me

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and I still hope to grow the relationship
as we continue in the future as well.

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There are so many people that...

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didn't realise that women
aren't professional actually.

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So when I tell people, in 2021,

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I'm a professional rugby player
and they go like, "That's cool."

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As if it's completely normal
and then I, sort of, emphasise

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there's only 28 of us English professional
women rugby players in the country.

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They're like, "Wow, I thought
everyone was professional."

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Especially, when you play
Premiership Rugby,

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with Harlequins amongst the top ten clubs
in the country,

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they just assume everyone's professional,

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when actually so much of our team...

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go to work.

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[Stef] The vast majority
of the people that play

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in my league don't have agents,

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we don't get paid.

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You know, some get something,

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some get expenses,
some get nothing, a lot get nothing.

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And we don't have somebody
advocating for our...

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you know, on behalf of us.

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To play the Premiership, you have to,
obviously, give up a lot of things,

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or manage a lot of things.

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Most of the difficulty lies in scheduling,

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because you have a huge workload

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associated with training, with fitness

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that has to be worked around or fit in

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with the things you have to do
for your career.

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[Shaunagh] Whether it's nine to fives,

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or whether they're teachers,
whether they're soldiers, paramedics.

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We have doctors,
we have dentists within our team

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and still expecting to play
a professional level of rugby

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whilst not being
professional rugby players.

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[Stef] You also have to block out
time for recovery,

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which is usually the first thing
that you want to cut into

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when you are trying to fit in
a lot of other things,

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usually to do with your day job.

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But It's really important in order
to keep yourself at a good enough standard

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that you can perform in a way
you want to perform.

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A lot of people that aren't intimately

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acquainted with what it's like to do it

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don't understand the level
of commitment required.

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It can be physically demanding, of course,

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and it can be mentally
and emotionally demanding.

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But for me, anyway, the hardest part
is that validation process.

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That's the part that I feel
the most taxed by.

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Like you spend a lot of time having these
little micro conversations

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justifying and explaining what you do
and why it takes so much time.

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That can be, I think,
emotionally very draining.

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It is an honour to be a professional

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female in sport because, growing up,

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sport has been and is my whole life.

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And it's something I always wanted to do.

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So it's an honour now
that I am a full-time

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professional athlete
and it makes me proud to say out loud.

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It does come with pressures and you are...

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rightly so, expected to know a lot more
about rugby and the game and the team.

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To work harder in the gym
and put more time in

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and, sort of, be that
even within our team,

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be that senior player, be that role model.

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To enable other people
to, sort of, come in

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and want to follow in your footsteps.

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[Stef] When I was a kid
and I was growing up,

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it wasn't a very body-positive place.

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Especially, for somebody
who didn't look like...

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you know, what most people
thought a woman should look like.

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or a girl should look like.

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I've always been a large person,
I've always been big,

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and as a kid, I got bullied
really badly for it actually

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all throughout elementary school
and into high school as well.

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And being physical in sports in school

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didn't really help
that whole dynamic, I guess.

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It seems to give people who are already

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looking for ways to attack me,
it seemed to to give them more ammunition.

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Starting about six or seven,

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until I went to high school at 13,

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I had this group of boys
who used to follow me home from school

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throwing rocks at me.

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They used to tell me,
like, I should go kill myself

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because I was fat and ugly.

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So I felt...

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for the majority of my time at school,

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like pretty monstrous actually.

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Like something was wrong
with the way I looked.

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But then also,
something was wrong with the way I acted.

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And probably also
why I felt so strongly about

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finding a place where I could fit in

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because I didn't feel like I had that.

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I think that rugby...

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Oh, I'm going to cry.

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I think that rugby

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was the first time I can remember
feeling like,

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maybe the problem wasn't me.

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Maybe the problem was that
I hadn't found a place

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that I could exist the way that I was.

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And rugby is inclusive
in so many different ways.

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It celebrates a lot
of different body types,

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especially at a recreational level,

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it's something that doesn't discriminate,
like everybody is welcome.

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There's just a lot of things
about the game itself of rugby that,

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I think, create a community around it
that is extremely inclusive

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and becomes welcoming to a lot of people

240
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.800
who have never, maybe felt that
in other arenas.

241
00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:28.400
I think that my experience
is probably specific to a few key things.

242
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:30.440
That feeling, I think,
is probably pretty universal

243
00:12:30.520 --> 00:12:32.000
for a lot of people who play it.

244
00:12:37.880 --> 00:12:39.960
[Shaunagh]
Growing up in terms of negativity,

245
00:12:40.040 --> 00:12:42.360
I'd say I got teased at school a lot.

246
00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:46.720
[sighs] I would say it was constant
but from different people

247
00:12:46.800 --> 00:12:48.360
and to the point where
I just thought that was normal.

248
00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:49.880
Like if I get teased,
everyone must get teased,

249
00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.000
the whole thing of not really being aware

250
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.720
of what's going on.

251
00:12:53.800 --> 00:12:55.120
The fact that I was a bit different.

252
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.680
I'd get called a he-she,
a she-man, she-hulk.

253
00:12:58.760 --> 00:13:00.680
Mum used to tell me,
"Ah, they're just jealous."

254
00:13:00.760 --> 00:13:04.040
So that's all I kind of went with.
I thought, they're just jealous.

255
00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.840
Again, the strong mum that I had
just to tell me that, like,

256
00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:10.560
"You are good enough,
you can do what you want to do.

257
00:13:10.640 --> 00:13:12.720
You can be different and it's OK."

258
00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.600
There are not many big stories
I can tell you

259
00:13:14.680 --> 00:13:16.120
where I was discriminated against.

260
00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:19.520
But it's more just the subtleties
of constant society saying,

261
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:21.160
"Oh, you shouldn't be looking like that,

262
00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:23.680
you shouldn't be talking like that,
you shouldn't be wearing that."

263
00:13:23.760 --> 00:13:25.360
And just having a mum who just said,

264
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:26.800
"Do what you want.

265
00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:28.000
Do what you want."

266
00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:30.520
For me now, as I'm getting older,

267
00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:34.040
I realise how powerful that was
and how much again Mum has done for me

268
00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:37.680
and us, as her kids
and grandkids growing up now.

269
00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:38.640
I love it now.

270
00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:41.320
I'm like the odd one out so often.

271
00:13:41.400 --> 00:13:45.320
I just enjoy reminding people
that we can be whoever we want to be.

272
00:13:45.400 --> 00:13:46.960
We can do what we wanna do.

273
00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:49.480
If you wanna be a girl and wear a dress,
that's fine.

274
00:13:49.560 --> 00:13:52.120
If you wanna play rugby and wear make-up,
that's fine.

275
00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.160
If you don't wanna wear makeup,
that's also fine.

276
00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.320
It's just like doing what you want to do

277
00:13:56.400 --> 00:13:58.320
because you want to do it, not because

278
00:13:58.400 --> 00:14:00.720
your mum, your dad,
your friends, your teachers,

279
00:14:00.800 --> 00:14:02.040
or society tells you to do it.

280
00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:04.160
It's just about feeling comfortable
within yourself.

281
00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:08.040
It's just a lot easier to live
how you want to live, in my opinion.

282
00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:09.320
[player] Up! Up! Up! Up!

283
00:14:09.400 --> 00:14:11.840
Push it, you got it, you got it! Yay!

284
00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:13.200
Whoo!

285
00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:16.360
[cheering]

286
00:14:22.520 --> 00:14:26.960
There aren't a whole lot of female
role models available in the media

287
00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:28.960
that have any, sort of, diversity to them.

288
00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:33.760
When we look at the type
of femininity that we still tend to

289
00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.920
celebrate the most or tends to offer women

290
00:14:37.040 --> 00:14:39.080
the most power in society.

291
00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:43.600
We still see a lot of reality stars,
models, singers,

292
00:14:43.680 --> 00:14:47.000
and there is absolutely nothing wrong
with portraying yourself like that

293
00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:49.160
or by accessing power
by what you look like,

294
00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:50.880
that's absolutely fine.

295
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:52.520
But that can't be the only way

296
00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:54.960
that we offer women and girls
success in the world.

297
00:14:57.680 --> 00:14:59.240
There have to be other options

298
00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:01.600
because not everybody fits
in the same box.

299
00:15:01.680 --> 00:15:05.280
And there are a lot
of women and girls that

300
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.040
could use role models that
don't all look the same.

301
00:15:15.680 --> 00:15:19.240
Female rugby players
really kind of hit that nail on the head

302
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.040
because there is so much diversity

303
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.840
and body type and I think that

304
00:15:23.920 --> 00:15:27.680
there is something
very powerful about them being athletes.

305
00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:32.400
The arena of sport offers a way
to celebrate your body

306
00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:35.120
and to value your body
and to love your body quite a lot.

307
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:38.080
But not for what it looks like,
but for what it can do.

308
00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:41.160
I think it's very important
that we make it very obvious to women

309
00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.280
and to young girls, especially,
that they can access power

310
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:48.240
with their bodies in a way that's not
tied to what it looks like.

311
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:52.760
That's, I think, a hugely powerful message
that women's rugby can communicate.

312
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:05.000
[Victoria] I think I love rugby

313
00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:07.240
because of the community
that it creates for people.

314
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:09.480
As soon as you put your body on the line

315
00:16:09.560 --> 00:16:11.800
for 22 other people,
you've made friends for life.

316
00:16:11.880 --> 00:16:13.320
And that I wouldn't give up for the world.

317
00:16:15.640 --> 00:16:16.680
I'm Victoria Rush.

318
00:16:16.760 --> 00:16:19.560
I'm a rugby player and a producer.

319
00:16:21.640 --> 00:16:23.920
Rugby's always been a hobby,
it's just been something I loved.

320
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.360
It's gone in and out of my life
for many years.

321
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.680
And then in 2020, during lockdown,

322
00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:33.040
I realised how much I missed
the community of players.

323
00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:36.040
It's actually the "I am Enough" movement

324
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:37.720
that really brought me back into the game.

325
00:16:42.520 --> 00:16:46.560
I started "I am Enough"
by posting a photo of me in my kit,

326
00:16:46.640 --> 00:16:49.800
in all the kits I'd ever played in
to represent who I am

327
00:16:49.880 --> 00:16:50.880
and what rugby means to me

328
00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:52.680
and to give other people the opportunity

329
00:16:52.760 --> 00:16:53.840
to do the same.

330
00:16:54.880 --> 00:16:57.920
It resonated with how
I'd always felt in sport,

331
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:00.560
that I wasn't enough as I am

332
00:17:00.640 --> 00:17:02.920
to represent my team or myself.

333
00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:07.400
The movement went so far and so wide,

334
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.560
we had players from London to Hong Kong,

335
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.280
Australia, U.S.A., all coming together

336
00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.040
who cared about the sport
as much as I did.

337
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:18.000
And that moment for me made me realise
how much I needed to come back.

338
00:17:21.560 --> 00:17:24.000
So when the Canterbury
Irish kit launch came out,

339
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:25.800
ah, and you saw the pictures...

340
00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.760
For me, in my head, I'm just like, ugh...

341
00:17:28.840 --> 00:17:31.320
"Classic."
And it doesn't come as a surprise.

342
00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.000
[Victoria] They launched the kit
with male players

343
00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:36.000
but to represent the female kit,
they used models.

344
00:17:36.080 --> 00:17:38.640
And that really for all women in the game

345
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.600
represented everything that we faced.

346
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:42.240
And it was very much, oh...

347
00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:45.080
like another campaign that's overlooked us
as women players.

348
00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:46.520
It may not have been

349
00:17:46.600 --> 00:17:49.040
a massive decision they made.
In fact, I know it wasn't.

350
00:17:49.120 --> 00:17:50.680
It's just that lack of thought,

351
00:17:50.760 --> 00:17:53.280
and lack of realising that...

352
00:17:53.360 --> 00:17:54.680
it's probably not a good idea,

353
00:17:54.800 --> 00:17:56.600
and that could come down to
who's making those decisions,

354
00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.720
and that's a whole different conversation
as to who's in those board meetings,

355
00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:00.960
who's got the power
to make those decisions.

356
00:18:01.040 --> 00:18:04.720
It was good to Canterbury
to then be big enough and brave enough

357
00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:07.360
to come out and apologise
because they could've done

358
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.240
what so many companies do and pretend that
it's not a thing and downplay it.

359
00:18:11.320 --> 00:18:13.040
But they publicly apologised,

360
00:18:13.120 --> 00:18:14.760
and then moved forward from that

361
00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:16.880
and come out with the positive statements

362
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:18.360
as to how that gonna change the game

363
00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.120
and how important brands are to rugby.

364
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.600
They've taken the hit
in that moment in time.

365
00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:26.440
But actually, there's a lot of people
who would've sat back

366
00:18:26.520 --> 00:18:27.480
and had to look at their selves

367
00:18:27.560 --> 00:18:30.920
and had a look at what people
they're using to promote their products.

368
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:34.840
Like how many women's products
they have available even on their page

369
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.720
and now it's about looking forward
and looking for change.

370
00:18:37.800 --> 00:18:41.440
2020, I think,
for all women's sport felt different.

371
00:18:41.520 --> 00:18:44.720
Our games were given up a lot earlier,

372
00:18:44.800 --> 00:18:47.000
a lot faster and a lot more easily.

373
00:18:47.080 --> 00:18:49.440
There was this huge sense of loss

374
00:18:49.520 --> 00:18:51.600
to women's sport and rugby, especially.

375
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:55.920
We thought with "I Am Enough" that
we had really made a significance change,

376
00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.160
but roll forward, six months later,

377
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:00.400
and we weren't ready
for what was gonna happen next.

378
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.000
[chiming]

379
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.160
#icare started in response to

380
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.720
some trolling that was posted on
a Six Nations postponement

381
00:19:21.800 --> 00:19:23.840
announcement that went out on Sky Sports.

382
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.920
It was very simply a post saying

383
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.000
that the Women's Six Nations
had been postponed.

384
00:19:29.080 --> 00:19:32.200
There was no opinion or judgment
attached to that,

385
00:19:32.280 --> 00:19:35.240
it was just communicating the fact
that postponement was happening.

386
00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.560
It was really disappointing
that the Six Nations was postponed,

387
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.920
but I think the response
was just so much worse.

388
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.560
There was a huge amount
of people commenting on that post,

389
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.640
something to the lines of, "nobody cares"
or "this doesn't matter,"

390
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:53.680
or "nobody cares about women's rugby".

391
00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:58.680
And I felt like it was very important
for us as a community to make it

392
00:19:58.760 --> 00:20:01.440
abundantly clear to anybody
who was commenting on that post

393
00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:05.280
but also anybody who was looking at
that post and going through the comments

394
00:20:05.360 --> 00:20:08.840
that quite a lot of us do care
deeply about the sport.

395
00:20:11.600 --> 00:20:15.240
I think #icare just showed the community
that we are still...

396
00:20:15.320 --> 00:20:16.760
together, we're in this together.

397
00:20:16.840 --> 00:20:20.240
To have hundreds,
if not thousands of people

398
00:20:20.320 --> 00:20:22.800
tell you that they care too,
men and women.

399
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.640
It's a huge movement
and it's starting to really be proud of

400
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:27.720
and to not really forget
on the tougher days.

401
00:20:27.800 --> 00:20:30.560
I also think it's really important
for anybody seeing it

402
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.280
especially young girls
who might come across that posts

403
00:20:33.360 --> 00:20:35.400
or might see anything to do with #icare

404
00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:37.520
as a movement, as a hashtag,

405
00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:42.000
to know that the way that
they want to exist in sports

406
00:20:42.080 --> 00:20:46.120
or as an athlete is something that a lot
of people care very deeply about.

407
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.720
And they might come across messaging
in the future that suggests otherwise,

408
00:20:49.800 --> 00:20:53.520
but I hope that they come away
with their interaction with #icare

409
00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:58.120
and with this movement knowing that
those messages are in the minimum

410
00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:02.320
and the vast majority of us
and the vast majority of the world

411
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.520
at large wants them to be here,

412
00:21:04.600 --> 00:21:06.560
and holds a place for them.

413
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.400
[indistinct background chatter]

414
00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:25.560
[Stef] In the world of women's rugby,

415
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:27.560
I think, it feels a little bit uphill
all the time.

416
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:29.560
Day in and day out to some degree

417
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.160
validating why we try so hard at this,

418
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.920
why we put so much into it,
why it matters.

419
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:38.560
This sport gives me so much,
it gives everybody who plays it so much

420
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.480
and the idea that somebody wants to
go out of their way

421
00:21:41.560 --> 00:21:44.000
to tell me that that doesn't matter,
I think, is not OK.

422
00:21:44.080 --> 00:21:46.880
[upbeat music playing]

423
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:19.160
[whistle blows]

424
00:22:32.800 --> 00:22:35.600
The whole reason that
it's possible for something

425
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:38.040
like the comments that
were being made to happen

426
00:22:38.120 --> 00:22:39.920
is because, for a lot of those people,

427
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.400
that might be the first time they are
coming across women's rugby content

428
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:44.240
or the first time they're coming across

429
00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:47.120
women's sport content in a significant way

430
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.200
on a channel that
they are used to following.

431
00:22:49.280 --> 00:22:51.480
We're not creating enough content
around women's rugby,

432
00:22:51.560 --> 00:22:54.560
we're not creating enough content around
women's sport, in general,

433
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:58.160
because if we were,
those thoughts wouldn't be happening

434
00:22:58.240 --> 00:22:59.960
and they would not be expressed
on the internet.

435
00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:06.800
When they postponed the Six Nations,

436
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.000
I felt a lot of hope
that having those dates

437
00:23:11.080 --> 00:23:12.920
run separately to the men's tournament.

438
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:17.080
And a lot of excitement as well that
that could be a huge opportunity.

439
00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:21.280
And I almost immediately felt,
"OK, you know, this is frustrating."

440
00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:24.800
But there's a big advantage that
we could play with this

441
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.280
if we do it right as a community.

442
00:23:26.360 --> 00:23:28.960
So Six Nations this year was...

443
00:23:29.040 --> 00:23:31.680
it was different in a lot of ways,
some good, some bad.

444
00:23:31.760 --> 00:23:33.320
The main reason why we played

445
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:36.400
in April as opposed to the usual slot
was because of COVID,

446
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:37.920
and it was a kind of the forced move.

447
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.040
But it actually turned out to be
a lot better for us

448
00:23:40.120 --> 00:23:43.560
and we discovered that, like, we get
a lot more media attention around it.

449
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:45.160
We're now not in a shadow of the men,

450
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:48.680
we have the month of April
to do our Six Nations.

451
00:23:48.760 --> 00:23:50.280
And actually,
when you speak to journalists,

452
00:23:50.360 --> 00:23:52.440
they prefer it as well,
and people in the media,

453
00:23:52.520 --> 00:23:54.960
because they don't have to write about
three rugby games

454
00:23:55.040 --> 00:23:57.880
'cause you've also got
the under-20 men's as well.

455
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.160
They could just write about
one rugby game a week

456
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.920
and it's just that constant flow of rugby

457
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.520
and you don't joke about three buses...

458
00:24:04.600 --> 00:24:07.200
waiting ages for a bus and then
three buses come along at once.

459
00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:08.960
It's no good to have all three buses...

460
00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:11.480
You can't get on all three buses,
you can only get on one at a time,

461
00:24:11.560 --> 00:24:12.560
so why not spread them out.

462
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.680
We're in 2021, you still can't access
the Allianz Premier 15s easily.

463
00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:24.880
Unless you're a die-hard fan
willing to persevere through

464
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.880
all sorts of forms and websites,

465
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.760
it's actually quite difficult to stream
what you wanna watch.

466
00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:31.960
And that's going to massively inhibit

467
00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:34.200
young kids coming and finding the game

468
00:24:34.280 --> 00:24:36.960
and learning about rugby
and learning about women's rugby.

469
00:24:37.040 --> 00:24:39.400
There are so many amazing players
that they don't get to see,

470
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.320
that it's a loss,
if anything, to the game.

471
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:45.200
[Shaunagh] This is part of the problem,
is you have to look for it.

472
00:24:45.320 --> 00:24:48.320
It is out there sometimes,

473
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:50.160
but you have to go lookin'.

474
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.840
And even when you know
what you're looking for,

475
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:54.920
again, we hear stories from people,

476
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.640
"I couldn't find a live stream."
"The website wasn't working."

477
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:01.040
"I had to sign my life
away to, sort of, get it."

478
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.120
The Premiership is not televised yet.

479
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.120
In all honesty, I don't think it's ready,

480
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.680
in terms of a product, to go on TV,

481
00:25:16.360 --> 00:25:19.920
because we're not
all professional players.

482
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:25.240
We can go and win games
by like 40 or 50-nil sometimes

483
00:25:25.320 --> 00:25:28.520
and I'm not sure people seeing that
is gonna grow the game.

484
00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:30.840
[players shouting]

485
00:25:31.840 --> 00:25:34.720
[whistle blows]

486
00:25:34.800 --> 00:25:38.960
[Shaunagh] Getting it more accessible,
but also improving the product

487
00:25:39.040 --> 00:25:42.120
for people to want to watch it
rather than having to go looking for it.

488
00:25:54.320 --> 00:25:56.120
We're doing as much
as we can in the sport.

489
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:57.160
There's always more to do.

490
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:58.920
And I would like to think I do my bit,

491
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:00.720
like having other people do
their bit as well.

492
00:26:00.800 --> 00:26:02.880
As long as we all do our bit
to promote the sport.

493
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.120
[Victoria] There are so many things
in the game, that need to change

494
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:08.360
but the one thing I think we all agree on
is that we need a kit for women,

495
00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:10.000
so why are still playing in men's kit?

496
00:26:10.080 --> 00:26:12.280
It doesn't fit and it doesn't work for us.

497
00:26:12.360 --> 00:26:14.640
[Stef] The reason that
it's so, in my opinion,

498
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.800
inappropriate for women to wear
men's shorts to play and train in

499
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.200
is that you'll end up with
all sorts of rubbing.

500
00:26:20.280 --> 00:26:22.440
You'll have to be rolling your shorts up
to have them fit.

501
00:26:22.520 --> 00:26:25.440
I've had repetitive hip flex or strain

502
00:26:25.520 --> 00:26:27.480
from scrumming in men's shorts,

503
00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:29.360
something that has to be managed
with a physio

504
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:30.720
because of wearing men's shorts.

505
00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:32.680
There is definitely
an aesthetic component to it

506
00:26:32.760 --> 00:26:35.720
but the largest component of it
is performance based.

507
00:26:37.080 --> 00:26:41.400
The shorts are probably
the thing that most people,

508
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:43.560
most women, will identify
with as being like

509
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:47.480
the catalyst, the hardest thing to solve
to play rugby in.

510
00:26:47.560 --> 00:26:49.960
I had a lot of conversations
with male players

511
00:26:50.040 --> 00:26:52.280
or people that are in positions
of purchasing

512
00:26:52.360 --> 00:26:53.880
for their club about kit.

513
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:55.960
And they'll usually say,

514
00:26:56.040 --> 00:26:58.440
"Oh, we would really love
to have women's kit,

515
00:26:58.520 --> 00:26:59.520
we would really love that."

516
00:26:59.600 --> 00:27:01.880
And if you ask them,
they would absolutely tell you

517
00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:04.040
that they love their women's programme
and I believe that they do.

518
00:27:04.120 --> 00:27:05.840
But immediately,
on the other side of that,

519
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.520
they will say, "Well, we have to buy
one pair of shorts."

520
00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:11.040
There will be a financial
or economical reason

521
00:27:11.120 --> 00:27:13.440
that they have to purchase
one short for the entire club.

522
00:27:13.520 --> 00:27:17.640
My standard response to that is,
"OK, well, for the last 75-ish years,

523
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:19.920
you've done that it that way
with men's kit,

524
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.680
why don't, for next year,
why don't we just do the exact same thing?

525
00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:24.560
We'll buy one short
and we'll just buy women's shorts

526
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:26.680
and the men can figure out,
do the same thing.

527
00:27:26.760 --> 00:27:29.600
They can do their sizechart and be like,
'OK, I would be a whatever,'

528
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:31.280
and we'll just, like, for one year."

529
00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:33.200
And they always laugh.

530
00:27:33.280 --> 00:27:35.720
They always laugh, they snort,
"That would be ridiculous."

531
00:27:35.800 --> 00:27:37.040
And I'm like, "So you agree?"

532
00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:41.280
It sounds a bit dramatic to say
it makes you feel unwanted,

533
00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:43.200
but kind of something like that.

534
00:27:43.280 --> 00:27:46.120
It's a mixed message of, like,
"Come into this community

535
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.400
and play this sport, we want you here.

536
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.480
But we make nothing
for you to do the sport in."

537
00:27:51.560 --> 00:27:53.680
I started Ruggette because,

538
00:27:53.760 --> 00:27:57.480
well, selfishly I didn't have shorts
that I felt comfortable playing in

539
00:27:57.560 --> 00:28:00.320
and I wanted to solve that problem
for myself, I guess.

540
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.720
This is a classic femfit short.

541
00:28:02.800 --> 00:28:05.440
It's our best-selling short,
we have this in multiple fabrics now.

542
00:28:05.520 --> 00:28:07.600
We have it in a ton of colours,

543
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.280
a ton of fabrics,
a ton of finishing options.

544
00:28:09.360 --> 00:28:11.040
We do custom stuff for teams.

545
00:28:11.120 --> 00:28:12.480
I don't think about what it feels like
to play in them

546
00:28:12.560 --> 00:28:13.760
'cause I forget that I'm wearing them

547
00:28:13.840 --> 00:28:16.040
because I don't have to be
thinking about what I'm wearing.

548
00:28:16.120 --> 00:28:18.640
And that was the biggest...

549
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.280
annoyance, previously
wearing men's shorts,

550
00:28:21.360 --> 00:28:24.440
being pulled away mentally
from what you're doing.

551
00:28:24.520 --> 00:28:26.080
To think about like,
"This is uncomfortable."

552
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:27.800
I'm adjusting, I'm adjusting my shorts,

553
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:29.680
you're pulling your shorts down,
you're pulling your shorts up,

554
00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:31.560
you're re-rolling the waist,

555
00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:34.760
you might not even realise how often
you are doing it until you're not.

556
00:28:34.840 --> 00:28:36.800
The fact that you can

557
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.240
just not have that whole
mental process happen

558
00:28:40.320 --> 00:28:42.360
is quite freeing, really,

559
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:43.480
'cause you can focus on what
you're supposed to be doing,

560
00:28:43.560 --> 00:28:44.960
which is playing a sport.

561
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:49.240
Regardless of the level that you play at,
you know,

562
00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:52.640
we all deserve to have the experience
of feeling like

563
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.120
the kit that we're playing the sport in

564
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:56.760
can keep up with what we're doing.

565
00:28:56.840 --> 00:29:00.000
Boots to me is not something
I recognise as being a problem as a woman

566
00:29:00.080 --> 00:29:01.800
because I wear size 8...

567
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:03.400
size 8s and size 9s,

568
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:06.080
which is a common men's size,
so I don't have a problem.

569
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:09.840
But then our smaller players,
who are size 4, 5, and 6s,

570
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:12.440
they have no choice
but to wear children's boots.

571
00:29:12.520 --> 00:29:14.600
And some say, "It's only a pair of boots."

572
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:15.840
There's a difference.

573
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.240
Even physically,
how many studs are in there, etcetera.

574
00:29:19.320 --> 00:29:23.800
Why should women have to be made to go
to children's section to buy their boots?

575
00:29:27.360 --> 00:29:29.720
[Stef] Whilst there's still
a lot of work to be done,

576
00:29:29.800 --> 00:29:31.760
and as far as making sure that

577
00:29:31.840 --> 00:29:34.240
the women's game is invested
in the same way as the men's

578
00:29:34.320 --> 00:29:39.160
and that trying to narrow the gaps between

579
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:42.840
countries that have more and countries
that have less for their programmes.

580
00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:47.160
We're far from done, as far as achieving
some sort of equality in rugby.

581
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.800
However, that said, we've also never seen
this much investment in the women's game,

582
00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:56.920
we've never seen this many platforms
delivering content for the women's game.

583
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:01.400
We've also never, before now
I have never seen this many supporters

584
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:03.240
wanting to consume that content

585
00:30:03.320 --> 00:30:05.000
and asking for it if it doesn't exist.

586
00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:08.600
That's a huge change in women's rugby
as a whole.

587
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.440
[Shaunagh] It's just about advertising
role models,

588
00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:14.520
showing different faces,
showing different body sizes,

589
00:30:14.600 --> 00:30:16.960
body shapes, different mindsets.

590
00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:20.280
Hi. I'm Zainab Alema, aka "The Bulldozer."

591
00:30:20.360 --> 00:30:23.640
I'm a neonatal nurse by profession
and a rugby player by passion

592
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:27.600
and I've won Sunday Times
Grassroots Sportswoman of the Year 2020

593
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:29.360
and I love a cheeky Earl Grey.

594
00:30:36.280 --> 00:30:38.560
I got into rugby at the age of 14.

595
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:41.680
So I was at high school
and my PE teacher said,

596
00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:43.800
"Right, girls, we're gonna do rugby today
as a session."

597
00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:46.360
And I was like, yes, bring it on.

598
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:49.000
So we had a rugby session
and I absolutely fell in love.

599
00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:52.320
Like the moment I touched that rugby ball,
it was just like magic.

600
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:54.120
Running through people.
Running with the ball.

601
00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:55.320
It was amazing.

602
00:30:59.600 --> 00:31:02.760
I went into rugby because I loved it,
'cause I just enjoyed it.

603
00:31:02.840 --> 00:31:04.440
When I got to uni,

604
00:31:04.520 --> 00:31:07.280
I just, sort of, took a step back
and was like, "OK."

605
00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:11.080
First of all, where are all
the other Black girls?

606
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.800
Second of all,
I'm the only Muslim on my team.

607
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:15.320
Where are the people that look like me?

608
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:17.720
You know. And I felt really isolated.

609
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:23.160
So going to uni was a massive eye-opener

610
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.000
and it really showed me the reality
of the kind of space that I'm in.

611
00:31:29.840 --> 00:31:31.520
I felt like I didn't fit in,

612
00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:33.880
especially in regards to
the drinking aspect.

613
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.120
You know, rugby is a very...

614
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.680
the culture of rugby,
alcohol's really big, you know.

615
00:31:40.760 --> 00:31:45.040
And, being a Muslim girl
that doesn't drink, I found myself...

616
00:31:45.120 --> 00:31:48.120
really in awkward positions.

617
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:52.440
So there actually was a point
in my rugby journey where I felt like...

618
00:31:52.520 --> 00:31:56.760
It was actually after uni.
So having those experiences, I thought,

619
00:31:56.840 --> 00:31:58.320
I don't know if I want
to go back to rugby.

620
00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:04.200
[indistinct chatter]

621
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.720
[Zainab] And I thought,
actually let me check

622
00:32:07.800 --> 00:32:10.280
in the rugby rule book
to see if they actually allow

623
00:32:10.360 --> 00:32:12.200
women to wear hijab,

624
00:32:12.280 --> 00:32:15.640
to wear the head scarf because my faith
is a big part of me

625
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.000
and my identity and I wanted to know
if rugby, you know, accepted that.

626
00:32:22.760 --> 00:32:24.480
So I went over the rule book,

627
00:32:24.560 --> 00:32:27.280
just scanning through the section,
the laws about clothing.

628
00:32:27.360 --> 00:32:30.720
It was there in black and white
in the rugby rule book

629
00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:33.440
that I could wear a head scarf
and play rugby.

630
00:32:33.520 --> 00:32:35.920
And that for me was like, oh...

631
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.120
see, like, this is it.

632
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.960
Like, you belong in rugby.
This is rugby telling you you're welcome.

633
00:32:42.040 --> 00:32:43.360
And I just took that and ran with it

634
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:46.560
and actually it showed in the way I play.

635
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:49.720
My confidence just spiked up,
like, "You've got this."

636
00:32:50.600 --> 00:32:53.480
[coach giving feedback, indistinct]

637
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.360
There are so many people
that would've automatically assumed that,

638
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.400
"I wear hijab. I can't play rugby,"
when that's not the case.

639
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.080
It's just sometimes you just need
that little reminder that,

640
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.560
"Oh," again, like,
"if she can do it, I can do it."

641
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:25.680
Visibility is major. Absolutely major.

642
00:33:25.760 --> 00:33:29.400
I think women in general,
when you have powerful role models,

643
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.280
if a young girl switches on a TV and sees

644
00:33:32.360 --> 00:33:34.720
another woman doing something they love,

645
00:33:34.800 --> 00:33:38.000
that's representation, that's visibility

646
00:33:38.080 --> 00:33:40.840
and through that you're
gonna get more people

647
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:43.720
wanting to join sport
and wanting to follow their passions.

648
00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:47.000
[cheering and applause]

649
00:33:47.080 --> 00:33:49.280
Change in perceptions,
I think, is a big one.

650
00:33:49.360 --> 00:33:51.800
I've said to people, I didn't feel like
I belonged in rugby.

651
00:33:51.880 --> 00:33:53.400
That's sort of my initial force.

652
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:56.520
That perception,
we can't be having that, you know.

653
00:33:56.600 --> 00:34:00.480
But now, I can comfortably say
as a Black Muslim woman,

654
00:34:00.560 --> 00:34:01.920
I belong in rugby.

655
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:10.040
One thing that I think we're all starting
to realise is that male allies

656
00:34:10.120 --> 00:34:12.480
can have such a huge impact
on women's sport.

657
00:34:12.560 --> 00:34:15.840
Male allies in the women's game
are hugely important

658
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:20.440
and always welcome and, like I say,
a giant like Ugo Monye

659
00:34:20.520 --> 00:34:24.239
being a very active ally

660
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.159
for the women's game is huge

661
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:30.120
because he's a kind of person,
no matter what he's talking about,

662
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:31.840
people sit up and listen.

663
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:36.320
So I'm Ugo Monye, a former rugby player,
here at Harlequins for 14 years.

664
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:38.840
Also played for England
and the British and Irish Lions.

665
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:42.400
It's not an understatement to say that
that rugby changed my life,

666
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:43.960
and we don't have enough time

667
00:34:44.040 --> 00:34:46.840
to get into all those details,
but it generally did.

668
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:50.880
My daughters are four and one and a half,
or just about.

669
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.280
I hope that by the age when they're able
to make their own decisions,

670
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:56.840
become teenagers and get exposed to

671
00:34:56.920 --> 00:34:59.640
lots of different sports
that they route into,

672
00:34:59.720 --> 00:35:02.680
whether it's rugby, tennis, football,
whatever it is,

673
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:04.320
I just hope they have
a positive experience.

674
00:35:07.520 --> 00:35:10.960
We have the great game, but if there's
anything I can do to help better it,

675
00:35:11.040 --> 00:35:12.480
to help promote it,

676
00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:15.040
to help get more visibility, more eyes,

677
00:35:15.120 --> 00:35:18.080
inspire people to get involved in it
in any way, then,

678
00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:19.880
yeah, I definitely want to be that guy.

679
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:27.120
It's easy to assume
that only girls follow us.

680
00:35:27.200 --> 00:35:30.840
But actually boys and men follow us, too.

681
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:33.520
And it's becoming a bit more socially
acceptable for men

682
00:35:33.600 --> 00:35:36.400
to come up to us and say,
"Congratulations."

683
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:39.240
I think sometimes, they might feel
a bit like, "Ooh, it's a bit weird,"

684
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:41.360
like, following women's sport as a man

685
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:43.520
but it's becoming
a lot more normal, thankfully.

686
00:35:45.720 --> 00:35:47.520
[Stef]
The most important thing I would like

687
00:35:47.600 --> 00:35:50.920
any male associated with sport
or with rugby

688
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.880
to know off the bat is that their voices
are needed in this conversation.

689
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.720
I also think that the way the world
works right now,

690
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.120
with the way our social media
algorithms work, for example,

691
00:36:04.200 --> 00:36:07.800
a lot of people are existing in bubbles
that never ever talk about

692
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:09.920
or discuss women's rugby.

693
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:14.800
And I can shout as much as I want
and they will never hear me.

694
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.960
If a male player or a male administrator
or just a male

695
00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:21.560
who comes across this
and understands the significance of it,

696
00:36:21.640 --> 00:36:23.760
if they lend their voice
to the conversation,

697
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:26.680
those are ripples on a completely
different pond that I can't reach.

698
00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:31.320
[Ugo] I don't think it's overcomplicated.

699
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:33.640
But I do think because we live in this

700
00:36:33.720 --> 00:36:38.160
"every time you speak up or something,
you are woke", I think that...

701
00:36:38.240 --> 00:36:42.240
tends to then be a barrier to men
speaking out 'cause they don't want to be

702
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:46.040
called that. I've been called it.
Whatever, like, brush it off.

703
00:36:46.120 --> 00:36:47.680
[Stef]
Obviously, I would never ask anybody

704
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:49.080
to say anything that
they didn't believe in.

705
00:36:49.160 --> 00:36:50.360
I think it's important that

706
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:52.800
the male voices that we hear
in this conversation are genuine

707
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:55.280
and that they mean what they say because,

708
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:57.120
you know, we don't need any more posturing
in this community,

709
00:36:57.200 --> 00:36:58.280
that's for sure.

710
00:36:58.360 --> 00:36:59.520
But it's important to understand

711
00:36:59.600 --> 00:37:02.000
that not only do we welcome them
into this conversation,

712
00:37:02.080 --> 00:37:05.560
but we need them, in order to reach places
that we can't reach,

713
00:37:05.640 --> 00:37:07.640
no matter how much we try.

714
00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:11.080
Some person who's really helped me
along this journey

715
00:37:11.160 --> 00:37:14.120
has been Sue Anstiss,

716
00:37:14.200 --> 00:37:17.840
and she is a phenomenal human being.

717
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:20.640
She is also a force of nature.

718
00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:23.720
And I love her relentless attitude.

719
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:27.040
She puts women's sport

720
00:37:27.120 --> 00:37:29.400
front and centre of every agenda.

721
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.240
She's been a great ally to myself

722
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:34.480
in order for me to hopefully be

723
00:37:34.560 --> 00:37:37.840
her best male ally can for women's rugby.

724
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:39.080
She's a boss.

725
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:43.800
How lovely. Oh!

726
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:46.240
It often surprises
and slightly disappoints me

727
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:50.480
that we don't see more professional
footballers and rugby players and so on

728
00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:53.480
perhaps calling out the negativity
we see on social media.

729
00:37:53.560 --> 00:37:56.360
Having someone re-tweet
some content or a quote

730
00:37:56.440 --> 00:37:59.640
actually can be hugely powerful
in terms of changing perceptions

731
00:37:59.720 --> 00:38:01.960
and those men who are in that

732
00:38:02.040 --> 00:38:06.440
well-respected positions actually can make
a massive difference in women's sport.

733
00:38:06.520 --> 00:38:09.400
Having Sue involved in this documentary
was almost a no-brainer.

734
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:10.640
She needs no introduction.

735
00:38:10.720 --> 00:38:13.000
She's an absolute power house
of women's sport

736
00:38:13.080 --> 00:38:14.720
and she really understands

737
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.520
what has happened in other sports

738
00:38:17.600 --> 00:38:19.280
that can translate so well into rugby.

739
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:20.920
In terms of investment in women's sport,

740
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.920
I think in the past, it's been a bit
of a worthy, something we ought to do,

741
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.040
it's the right thing to do
and more and more sponsors announcing

742
00:38:28.120 --> 00:38:31.880
there's huge commercial value
to be investing in women's sport.

743
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:34.840
And I think sometimes,
we feel that fans in women's sport

744
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:37.920
are just women. But it's not just women
that watch women's sport,

745
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:39.480
men and women watch.

746
00:38:39.560 --> 00:38:43.000
However, there is also this opportunity
to tap in to a huge fanbase

747
00:38:43.080 --> 00:38:45.760
that perhaps hasn't followed
much sport in the past,

748
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:47.440
which is women and families

749
00:38:47.520 --> 00:38:51.240
and, you know, women make up 70, 80%
of decision making

750
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.360
in terms of purchases
that are made within the home.

751
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:54.920
So, women, are really powerful.

752
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:00.520
[Shaunagh] So, semi-final week.

753
00:39:00.600 --> 00:39:03.680
Last session before
the semi-final on Saturday.

754
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:05.920
And we get the pleasure of training
at the Stoop tonight,

755
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.000
which is unusual for us.

756
00:39:08.080 --> 00:39:12.200
But everyone loves being at the Stoop
all the time.

757
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.520
So it's good. It'll be like
a nice captain's run kind of feel to it

758
00:39:15.600 --> 00:39:19.000
and we'll know exactly
what to expect come Saturday.

759
00:39:19.080 --> 00:39:20.040
[phone chimes]

760
00:39:20.120 --> 00:39:21.880
-Hello.
-[Zac, over phone] Yeah.

761
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:23.720
Look, Zac. Do you want to be on camera?

762
00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:25.760
Where are you?

763
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.080
A camera is filming me today.
You're on camera.

764
00:39:28.160 --> 00:39:31.160
So this is the best thing about anyone
coming to the Stoop.

765
00:39:31.240 --> 00:39:32.520
You walk through the gate...

766
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:35.400
and you see my face.

767
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:37.480
Let's get closer.

768
00:39:39.720 --> 00:39:40.560
Ready?

769
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.440
When I had more hair, as well.

770
00:39:46.080 --> 00:39:46.960
Watch, like this.

771
00:39:52.640 --> 00:39:53.760
It's knockout stages.

772
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:56.440
So we win. We have another week of a game.

773
00:39:56.520 --> 00:39:58.840
If we don't win. That's it.
Our season's done.

774
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:01.720
So there's a sort
of a tenseness to the camp.

775
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.360
But, at the same time,
you want to be jovial.

776
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:06.720
You don't wanna have too many
big changes because...

777
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.160
actually what we've done throughout
the season has clearly worked

778
00:40:09.240 --> 00:40:10.960
because it's got us there
in the first place.

779
00:40:11.040 --> 00:40:14.360
So, yes, we're training
for Saturday, but also,

780
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.480
as long as we train well for Saturday,

781
00:40:16.560 --> 00:40:18.400
we then have another Saturday
on our hands,

782
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:19.720
which will be an even bigger game.

783
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:20.960
[player 1] Let's go!

784
00:40:30.720 --> 00:40:31.640
[player 2] On three.

785
00:40:31.720 --> 00:40:33.520
-One, two, three.
-[all] Quins!

786
00:40:33.600 --> 00:40:35.040
[commentator] Show time.

787
00:40:40.040 --> 00:40:45.280
[crowd cheering]

788
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:49.240
[applause]

789
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.800
[crowd chanting]

790
00:41:13.080 --> 00:41:15.960
[applause]

791
00:41:39.600 --> 00:41:43.560
I wanna be the best man ally I can be
for women's game so...

792
00:41:43.680 --> 00:41:46.280
I'm listening, I'm learning, erm...

793
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:48.040
And I'm trying to do my bit.

794
00:41:48.120 --> 00:41:50.640
But, it's important to us,
people like you,

795
00:41:50.720 --> 00:41:52.600
who are the forefront of the game,

796
00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:55.760
how can I help and how can
other male allies really help

797
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:57.240
support the women's game?

798
00:41:57.320 --> 00:41:59.480
I think the most basic form
of help is just

799
00:41:59.560 --> 00:42:02.600
remembering that social media
is the ultimate and...

800
00:42:02.720 --> 00:42:04.240
Like re-tweet and stuff or...

801
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:07.320
Just saying you're watching the game or,
even if you're not watching it,

802
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:09.280
like, say where people can watch it,

803
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:10.840
talk about individual players

804
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.240
and having conversations about rugby

805
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:15.080
and interchanging both of them, like,

806
00:42:15.160 --> 00:42:18.560
swapping in players and not talking about
necessarily the men's team

807
00:42:18.640 --> 00:42:21.040
or the women's team,
like, it's just talking about rugby.

808
00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:23.040
And then when you get
to the higher levels, like,

809
00:42:23.120 --> 00:42:24.560
people like yourself who are really, like,

810
00:42:24.640 --> 00:42:27.240
in that rugby world, is come and...

811
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:29.480
not only come and watch us play
but come and watch us train,

812
00:42:29.560 --> 00:42:33.040
come and have conversations with us, like,
you'll learn so much about,

813
00:42:33.120 --> 00:42:36.280
like, the good side of us and the team
and the stories, like.

814
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.800
-So many people have full-time jobs.
-That's the best bit.

815
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.960
Yeah, so many people have full-time jobs
and you'll be surprised, like,

816
00:42:42.040 --> 00:42:45.160
someone just finished a nine-hour shift
and has come straight to training.

817
00:42:45.240 --> 00:42:48.320
And you'll think, "Oh, why are
these people late to a meeting?

818
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:50.800
This is disgraceful, like, you're players,
you should be on time for meetings."

819
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:52.080
But, actually, you'll find out

820
00:42:52.160 --> 00:42:55.320
they've just got straight on the M25
after a nine-hour shift.

821
00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:58.120
And they've had a chance
to eat a sandwich on the way

822
00:42:58.200 --> 00:43:00.680
and they've got three minutes
to get changed into kit and be in a meet.

823
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:02.160
And you're like, oh, OK,
maybe I understand

824
00:43:02.240 --> 00:43:05.080
why it's a bit more relaxed around timings
and bits like that.

825
00:43:05.160 --> 00:43:10.320
I know for a fact that if I had to work
a full-time job,

826
00:43:11.080 --> 00:43:14.960
nine-hour shifts and train,
I would never have achieved

827
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:18.800
the small things that I did in my career.

828
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:21.920
There's just no way.
I wouldn't be able to do the both.

829
00:43:24.120 --> 00:43:26.880
We know where the men's game's at.

830
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.000
Financially, it's...

831
00:43:29.080 --> 00:43:31.120
a lot greater than the women's game.

832
00:43:31.200 --> 00:43:33.720
It's been professional for over 26 years,

833
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:36.760
so some of the structures
that we have within our game are...

834
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:38.480
they're deep rooted and...

835
00:43:38.560 --> 00:43:41.280
give us a great platform.

836
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:45.280
But it's how you can use that platform
to be able to amplify

837
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:48.000
the other part of our game,
which is the women's game.

838
00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:51.360
I know loads of lads who have little girls

839
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:53.040
who might wanna be rugby players.

840
00:43:53.120 --> 00:43:57.320
Think about them and just step up
and just say something.

841
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:01.080
Being inactive is...
I just don't think is an option anymore.

842
00:44:04.160 --> 00:44:05.920
[Zainab] So, since we've last spoken

843
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.280
I've decided to go on a journey

844
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.640
and that end goal is to play for England

845
00:44:12.720 --> 00:44:15.400
and essentially make history

846
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:19.560
in being the first Muslim woman
to play for England.

847
00:44:19.640 --> 00:44:22.120
I put this picture up on social media

848
00:44:22.200 --> 00:44:24.360
and I just got people talking, like,

849
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:29.200
would this be strange to see someone,
you know, a Muslim woman play for England?

850
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:33.880
I was so scared to tell people
because I was scared of what they'll say.

851
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.840
I'm currently at Barnes
but I'm moving to Richmond.

852
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:41.880
So, Richmond play at the championship,

853
00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:45.040
that's one above where
I currently play for Barnes.

854
00:44:46.680 --> 00:44:48.120
Sometimes I do sit down and think,

855
00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:50.960
"What have I done?
I just told the world that I..."

856
00:44:51.040 --> 00:44:53.680
But I'm not putting pressure on myself,
if I'm honest with you,

857
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.240
and the impact that it's having,
just me saying I wanna play for England...

858
00:44:57.720 --> 00:44:59.440
The impact that it's having is incredible.

859
00:45:02.120 --> 00:45:04.880
On my page, I have a tab called "Support"

860
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:09.160
and this is where I essentially store
all of the messages

861
00:45:09.240 --> 00:45:11.200
of support on my social media.

862
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:13.760
And it helps me get through, you know,
when I'm feeling a bit down,

863
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.120
when I feel a bit deflated,
I go through the messages

864
00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:18.880
of people just being so lovely.

865
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:20.440
For some, you know, people saying,

866
00:45:20.520 --> 00:45:22.960
"Get those reps in, that's all it is."

867
00:45:23.040 --> 00:45:25.840
That's Simi from Bristol Bears.
She's a massive support.

868
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.920
"Just wanted to say you are smashing it,
keep doing what you're doing."

869
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.640
"Zee, you're looking
in shape, girl. Love it."

870
00:45:32.720 --> 00:45:35.240
"Keep going, your journey is going
to be something special,

871
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:36.320
I can see it."

872
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:38.400
Things like that is just awesome.

873
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:40.160
"I'm living for this journey, see.

874
00:45:40.240 --> 00:45:42.360
When you win, I feel like I win,
keep grinding."

875
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:43.920
Can you imagine someone telling you, like,

876
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:46.160
they're winning
because you're winning? Like...

877
00:45:46.680 --> 00:45:50.280
It's just... it's just...
I can't even believe it.

878
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:52.600
World Rugby getting in there saying,

879
00:45:52.680 --> 00:45:54.800
"Keep doing what you're doing, you...

880
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.000
you are an amazing inspiration
to so many."

881
00:45:58.080 --> 00:45:59.680
So, I've got the support of World Rugby.

882
00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:06.440
You know, with all
the misogynistic comments on social media,

883
00:46:06.520 --> 00:46:08.240
the downside I guess of

884
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.080
being a female athlete
where you get people just commenting

885
00:46:12.160 --> 00:46:13.720
and being really nasty.

886
00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:15.960
Can you imagine, like,
if those comments...

887
00:46:16.040 --> 00:46:18.480
all of those comments
were actually positive comments.

888
00:46:18.560 --> 00:46:22.640
I'd make such a massive impact
to just women's sport in general.

889
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.520
That first cup I get is not for me,

890
00:46:25.600 --> 00:46:29.640
it's literally for everybody
that ever didn't really fit in.

891
00:46:29.720 --> 00:46:31.960
Anyone that ever felt like
they weren't good enough

892
00:46:32.040 --> 00:46:33.720
or they couldn't follow their dreams.

893
00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:38.480
So many odds I guess are against me,
in general, not just for my identity

894
00:46:38.560 --> 00:46:40.040
but just in general.

895
00:46:40.120 --> 00:46:44.480
And for me to get there, if I can do it
then anyone can, like anyone can.

896
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:49.400
All of the women that play for England,
they all inspire me.

897
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:51.800
Just to be rubbing shoulders with them

898
00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:54.040
would be absolutely amazing.

899
00:46:54.120 --> 00:46:55.440
Would be absolute dream come true.

900
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:05.320
[Sue] In terms of the last year,
and the impact of COVID,

901
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:07.760
I think at the beginning,
there was this huge fear

902
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:10.920
that... Well, women's sport did stop
much faster than men's sport.

903
00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:13.840
There wasn't an opportunity to play,
there wasn't coverage.

904
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:17.320
There was the worry that we would lose
all that incredible momentum

905
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:19.200
we've built up over the last decade.

906
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:21.640
But, actually, it stimulated loads
of conversation

907
00:47:21.720 --> 00:47:23.520
around women's sport and why it matters

908
00:47:23.600 --> 00:47:24.720
and funding and investment.

909
00:47:26.520 --> 00:47:28.720
[Stef] If you looked at just the numbers,

910
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:30.640
the size of the women's rugby market,

911
00:47:30.720 --> 00:47:32.680
how quickly it's grown
over the last couple of years,

912
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:33.800
how many people play.

913
00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:35.640
If you could pitch that to an investor

914
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.040
without having the words
"women" or "rugby" in it,

915
00:47:38.120 --> 00:47:39.280
if you just showed them the numbers,

916
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:41.080
the market reach, the growth potential,

917
00:47:41.200 --> 00:47:43.600
anybody with any sense of business

918
00:47:43.680 --> 00:47:46.000
would invest in it,
but the second that you add in

919
00:47:46.080 --> 00:47:48.400
"women's rugby" to it or "women's sport",

920
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.080
then you get all the hesitancy
and that's what I find really confusing.

921
00:47:52.160 --> 00:47:54.880
Because the numbers don't suggest
that it's a bad investment.

922
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:56.760
So if the numbers aren't
what's bothering you,

923
00:47:56.840 --> 00:47:58.960
then it's the women's rugby part
that's bothering you.

924
00:47:59.040 --> 00:48:01.240
And that's not a business thing,
that's a sexism thing.

925
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:06.680
Women's rugby and women's sport
is a huge market

926
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:08.640
with untapped growth potential.

927
00:48:08.720 --> 00:48:13.560
Nobody is taking full advantage
of the market value of female players.

928
00:48:13.640 --> 00:48:14.600
Not even close.

929
00:48:14.680 --> 00:48:17.160
And the numbers in our game suggest that,

930
00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:19.480
at bare minimum,
there's 2.4 million people

931
00:48:19.560 --> 00:48:20.520
who want to watch our games,

932
00:48:20.600 --> 00:48:24.080
so the fact that they're not being
put out there in a huge way,

933
00:48:24.160 --> 00:48:26.360
from a business perspective,
is very confusing.

934
00:48:30.080 --> 00:48:32.560
Summing up the Premier Final
in a sentence? [sighs]

935
00:48:32.640 --> 00:48:34.160
That's a task in itself.

936
00:48:34.240 --> 00:48:35.360
It's just emotional.

937
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:39.120
[indistinct announcement]

938
00:48:39.200 --> 00:48:41.760
[Shaunagh] Leading up to it, like,
it was a build up of emotion

939
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:44.320
and I almost felt like we should've sung
the National Anthem first.

940
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:47.240
It was that kind of...
that's how much it meant to all of us.

941
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:52.280
Fans were in. Like, take it all in.

942
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.240
For me, sport is about those moments

943
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:56.880
and literally looking around the stadium

944
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:00.320
and just seeing how many people
you're making happy that day.

945
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:05.680
[announcer] And now please welcome
Harlequin's women.

946
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:07.880
[cheers and applause]

947
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.960
When that first whistle goes,
that's it. We're at war.

948
00:49:11.040 --> 00:49:13.720
There's no... there is some smiling
but, you know,

949
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:15.480
it's about what happens next

950
00:49:15.560 --> 00:49:18.320
and about continuing it and sticking to

951
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:21.200
what we've done
for the whole year in training.

952
00:49:24.120 --> 00:49:27.400
Rachel Burford went down,
I think, sort of, about 12-13 minutes in

953
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:29.600
and she rarely goes down.

954
00:49:29.680 --> 00:49:31.840
But if she does go down,
nine out of ten times

955
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:33.800
she gets up, like, maybe fully strapped up

956
00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:36.520
and actually, she did get back up
and it was like a phew!

957
00:49:36.600 --> 00:49:39.960
But then, she went down again like,
literally a few seconds later.

958
00:49:40.040 --> 00:49:41.400
And what turned out to be like...

959
00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:43.120
what kept her off,
not only for the whole game,

960
00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:45.600
but then out for a few months
as well with surgery.

961
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:50.600
She is an inspiration.

962
00:49:50.680 --> 00:49:52.200
I don't use it that often, that word.

963
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.600
But she is an inspiration.
It sort of took us...

964
00:49:54.680 --> 00:49:56.920
it took us by surprise, obviously,
because it's an injury

965
00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:00.080
but for it to happen so early
and it was a kind of

966
00:50:00.160 --> 00:50:02.040
emergency stations, like,
where do we go from here?

967
00:50:08.040 --> 00:50:13.360
After the semifinal, I...
It was about 11:30 at night,

968
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.080
phone went... Ugo Monye.

969
00:50:15.160 --> 00:50:16.920
And it's like a two and half minute
voice note.

970
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:18.240
He just goes,

971
00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:20.560
"So, I've watched the semi-final again.

972
00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:24.360
I've watched it a few times and now I'm
ready to give you an analysis on it.

973
00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:27.160
And basically, you need to stop passing
the ball.

974
00:50:27.600 --> 00:50:29.280
All they need from you is to carry."

975
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:32.280
And I'm like, right, this is Ugo Monye.

976
00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:34.800
England Sevens and 15s,
British and Irish Lions.

977
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:36.560
He's telling me to carry.

978
00:50:36.640 --> 00:50:39.200
I'm just gonna carry
and I love it as well.

979
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:41.120
So, he's telling me to do it.

980
00:50:41.200 --> 00:50:42.960
Don't pass too much, just carry.

981
00:50:43.040 --> 00:50:45.600
That game was just about
everyone doing their strengths

982
00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:48.040
and not trying to do too much fancy stuff

983
00:50:48.120 --> 00:50:51.200
and doing outside of that
because that's how we were gonna win

984
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:52.440
and that's how we did win.

985
00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:56.520
[cheering]

986
00:50:56.600 --> 00:50:58.040
[Shaunagh] Final whistle went.

987
00:50:58.120 --> 00:51:00.360
I started crying instantly.

988
00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:03.240
Anyone... and then like hugging everyone
and anyone that come up to me.

989
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:05.600
Our communications officer
came over to us.

990
00:51:05.680 --> 00:51:08.680
He went, "Mate, you've just won
Player of the Match," and I went, "Oooh!"

991
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:12.520
I started all over again, like more tears
and I was crying.

992
00:51:13.040 --> 00:51:14.520
As I walked over to that microphone,

993
00:51:14.600 --> 00:51:17.800
I didn't know that I was gonna say that.
I didn't, like...

994
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:20.280
I didn't plan it or anything. It's just...

995
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:22.840
It's just the thoughts that are
in my head, all day, every day.

996
00:51:24.720 --> 00:51:26.600
Shaunagh, a huge congratulations,

997
00:51:26.680 --> 00:51:29.680
erm, on the club's first ever
Premier 15s title.

998
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:31.720
You've done it
on the third time of asking.

999
00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:34.160
What does that mean to you personally?

1000
00:51:34.240 --> 00:51:37.720
Well, I'm crying, so it must mean a lot
'cause I don't really cry.

1001
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:39.680
But it's tears of happiness and...

1002
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:41.960
my mum is in the crowd
and she wasn't gonna come,

1003
00:51:42.040 --> 00:51:44.440
and I'm so glad that she did.

1004
00:51:44.520 --> 00:51:47.120
[reporter] Ah, Shaunagh, it's lovely
to see that emotion.

1005
00:51:47.200 --> 00:51:49.560
It's lovely to see how much
it means and I guess,

1006
00:51:49.640 --> 00:51:52.400
you know, this club has walked away
from two consecutive finals

1007
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:53.400
as runners up.

1008
00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:57.000
So, does this mean even more
because of that disappointment?

1009
00:51:57.080 --> 00:51:58.640
[Shaunagh]
Yeah. As I say, third time lucky.

1010
00:51:58.720 --> 00:52:00.760
But there was no luck
involved in today at all.

1011
00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:02.480
It's hard work all season.

1012
00:52:02.560 --> 00:52:04.880
Last week, we thought we put on
a performance of our season.

1013
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:06.680
But clearly, we've come out
and done it again.

1014
00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:10.080
I'm so proud of everyone and no individual

1015
00:52:10.160 --> 00:52:12.720
should be singled out
because we're such a team

1016
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:15.920
and I can't wait to be
with the girls again.

1017
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:19.920
[reporter] What does this mean to you guys
as players and the club as a whole?

1018
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.000
This is not just about rugby.
This is not just about the sport.

1019
00:52:24.080 --> 00:52:26.200
It's about women
and it's about women's sport.

1020
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.440
And it's about putting us on a platform
and knowing that we can do it.

1021
00:52:29.520 --> 00:52:33.080
And we have come out and put on
an international standard of rugby

1022
00:52:33.160 --> 00:52:37.080
in front of fans and this is
what rugby should be, week in, week out.

1023
00:52:37.160 --> 00:52:40.640
Men or women's. We're here
and I challenge anyone to say that

1024
00:52:40.720 --> 00:52:41.960
women's rugby is not good enough

1025
00:52:42.040 --> 00:52:43.480
and women are not good enough,
'cause we are.

1026
00:52:43.560 --> 00:52:44.880
[crowd cheering]

1027
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:47.920
[Shaunagh] Speaking to some rugby girls
I've not seen in a while

1028
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:51.280
and she said, "I'm so glad
that you said it."

1029
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.880
And it's everything
I've ever wanted to say,

1030
00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:55.960
but just not had the guts
to say it out loud.

1031
00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:59.200
I've never had so much attention,
like media attention,

1032
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:01.480
social media, my own phone.

1033
00:53:01.560 --> 00:53:03.760
It just went crazy from that interview.

1034
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:06.000
And the amount of games
I played for England.

1035
00:53:06.080 --> 00:53:07.920
We've won three Grand Slams

1036
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.520
and nobody cared about that
as much as they cared about

1037
00:53:12.600 --> 00:53:17.040
just a few sentences I said at the end
of a really good game of rugby.

1038
00:53:17.120 --> 00:53:20.360
And the amount of grown men
had said, "I cried.

1039
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:22.560
You made me cry
for the first time in ten years.

1040
00:53:22.640 --> 00:53:24.360
I was watching it and my wife was like,

1041
00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:28.040
'What are you doing? Come and watch it.'
Then they all started crying."

1042
00:53:32.640 --> 00:53:35.080
In my head, I'm still
just a kid from Peckham.

1043
00:53:35.160 --> 00:53:38.840
Just having a go at throwing
an egg around on a bit of grass.

1044
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:41.680
But it's just that if I can make
a change to their life

1045
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:43.640
just by being there or just by playing,

1046
00:53:43.720 --> 00:53:46.040
that's my why, that's why I do it.

1047
00:53:50.560 --> 00:53:52.800
[indistinct chatter]

1048
00:53:57.040 --> 00:53:58.320
[Shaunagh] Zac!

1049
00:53:58.400 --> 00:53:59.480
Shaunagh!

1050
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:04.680
One... Again, one, two, three.

1051
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.320
One more. One, two, three.

1052
00:54:11.720 --> 00:54:13.960
Shall we talk about the family
group chat after the game?

1053
00:54:14.720 --> 00:54:15.600
What happened?

1054
00:54:15.680 --> 00:54:17.200
Erm, I don't know.

1055
00:54:17.720 --> 00:54:19.760
I got one sentence. "Well done, Shaunagh."

1056
00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:22.680
And that was it and they all started
talking about new potatoes.

1057
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:23.960
Who said, "Well done"?

1058
00:54:24.040 --> 00:54:26.200
I did. I said, "Well done, Shaunagh."

1059
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:29.000
And then Anna said, "Have you got
any new potatoes left?"

1060
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:33.760
We like to keep her down to earth,
you know.

1061
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:35.640
Keep her feet firmly on the ground.

1062
00:54:35.720 --> 00:54:36.920
She said, "I've just got Player
of the Match and we won the cup.

1063
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:38.760
And you're worried about potatoes."

1064
00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:40.480
[Lesley] I do get a lot of people
saying to me,

1065
00:54:40.560 --> 00:54:42.880
"Oh, you must be so proud," you know.

1066
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:46.240
Of course I am. You know,
what more can I say? I am proud.

1067
00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:48.400
I suppose other people see her
very differently to me

1068
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:51.520
and it is like that,
"Oh, you must be so proud.

1069
00:54:51.600 --> 00:54:53.720
You know, she has achieved so much."

1070
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:55.920
Yes, I'm proud. I'll be proud of her
no matter what she'd done.

1071
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:58.360
But, you know, I'm very proud of her.

1072
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.720
But she's still Shaunagh
and she always will be.

1073
00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:06.280
I liked the way you spoke.
You know, you were very...

1074
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:10.400
-Passionate.
-Passionate. Yeah. Controlled, yeah.

1075
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:11.320
-Controlled?!
-Controlled?!

1076
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:15.000
I was in tears, Granddad.

1077
00:55:15.080 --> 00:55:17.480
I think the fact that
she's doing it for women

1078
00:55:17.560 --> 00:55:19.800
is the best thing, because...

1079
00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.480
if it wasn't rugby,
it may be something else,

1080
00:55:22.560 --> 00:55:24.480
'cause she's always been

1081
00:55:24.560 --> 00:55:28.520
doing jobs that women don't like,
gas engineer, firefighter.

1082
00:55:28.600 --> 00:55:31.400
So she's been like that for a long time

1083
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:34.160
and that inspiration, she just...

1084
00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:36.440
she oozes it, you know, she just...

1085
00:55:36.520 --> 00:55:38.320
She just corrects me every time.

1086
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:41.160
If I refer to the dog as a "he". "She!"

1087
00:55:41.240 --> 00:55:44.600
Or if I say, "Where's the workman, today?"

1088
00:55:44.680 --> 00:55:46.520
"Who says it's a workman?"

1089
00:55:46.600 --> 00:55:49.600
It's not that it's on her mind
all the time, but she is aware

1090
00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:52.640
that women are equal to men.

1091
00:55:52.720 --> 00:55:56.360
You know, so she reminds me
of it every single day.

1092
00:56:00.120 --> 00:56:02.240
How do you guys feel
about the World Cup next year,

1093
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:03.440
the fact that it's postponed?

1094
00:56:03.520 --> 00:56:06.080
Are you looking forward to it?
You gonna come watch?

1095
00:56:06.160 --> 00:56:08.920
Hoping I'll be in the team?
What are our thoughts?

1096
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:12.080
Well, I hope you're in the team,
'cause I intend on going there.

1097
00:56:12.160 --> 00:56:15.800
I think the achievements she would like
at this moment in time in rugby

1098
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:17.600
is to play in the World Cup.

1099
00:56:17.680 --> 00:56:20.880
Yeah, she would love to do that
and I would love her to do that.

1100
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.160
If she could get into that team
for the World Cup

1101
00:56:23.240 --> 00:56:26.520
that would be her, sort of,
pinnacle of her career in rugby, I think.

1102
00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:37.600
Never before in the history
of women's rugby

1103
00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:41.520
have we seen this many people willing
to lend their voices to the discussion,

1104
00:56:41.600 --> 00:56:44.600
willing to take on roles
in growing the game

1105
00:56:44.680 --> 00:56:46.400
and putting so much time into it.

1106
00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:49.440
But also, you know, we've never seen
this many people

1107
00:56:49.520 --> 00:56:52.520
wanting to support the games,
wanting to consume the content we put out.

1108
00:56:52.600 --> 00:56:55.600
[Sue] Across the decades,
we've thought this is gonna be the moment,

1109
00:56:55.680 --> 00:56:59.480
but I really do feel it's now.
I think just too much has happened

1110
00:56:59.560 --> 00:57:04.120
across too many sports for us not to
see this momentous growth keep going.

1111
00:57:04.200 --> 00:57:07.160
And it's not just in terms
of the visibility of women's sport

1112
00:57:07.240 --> 00:57:09.600
but also investment
and funding and sponsorship

1113
00:57:09.680 --> 00:57:13.640
and governance and women in
key board roles and coaches and officials.

1114
00:57:13.720 --> 00:57:17.400
It's women across sport,
so I really do feel now is the time.

1115
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:21.680
It could make a massive difference to have

1116
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.760
a fully professional Allianz Premier 15s.

1117
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:27.440
We kind of celebrate these
amazing female athletes

1118
00:57:27.520 --> 00:57:30.760
that hold down three jobs
and their frontline NHS workers and...

1119
00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:33.840
That's all fine, but the only reason
they're doing three jobs

1120
00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:36.280
and also play rugby
is because they're not being paid

1121
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:38.280
to play professionally
in the way that men are.

1122
00:57:38.360 --> 00:57:41.720
Whilst, it is amazing that they
do all this, but they won't need to

1123
00:57:41.800 --> 00:57:44.640
because they'll be able to be paid
professionally to do the job,

1124
00:57:44.720 --> 00:57:48.000
and then when they are, we'll just see
the increase in standards of play

1125
00:57:48.080 --> 00:57:50.560
which we've already witnessed
in the last five years.

1126
00:57:50.640 --> 00:57:52.480
But when women can actually play full-time

1127
00:57:52.560 --> 00:57:55.720
and they're not trying to work full-time,
and then train in the evening

1128
00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:57.400
and, you know, play a couple times a week,

1129
00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:00.120
we'll see that increase
in the quality of play,

1130
00:58:00.200 --> 00:58:03.760
equalizing across the teams as well,
so, much more competition.

1131
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:06.320
There's been an enormous amount
of momentum for the women's game.

1132
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:08.960
Zee is now a Canterbury Ambassador,

1133
00:58:09.040 --> 00:58:11.480
and I truly believe
that there's something to do

1134
00:58:11.560 --> 00:58:13.760
with the movements that we've had
over the last few years.

1135
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:17.960
But now we gotta make sure that we carry
the momentum we have forwards with us.

1136
00:58:18.040 --> 00:58:22.360
We keep our voices heard
and we make sure that that doesn't change.

1137
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:24.280
You could Tweet about it.

1138
00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:25.840
You could celebrate their moments,

1139
00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:27.880
you could celebrate their victories.

1140
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.760
You could point people in the direction
of where they can watch it.

1141
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:34.440
That's a simple thing,
which takes not a lot of time,

1142
00:58:34.520 --> 00:58:36.000
certainly doesn't cost any money.

1143
00:58:36.080 --> 00:58:37.640
Connect with them, talk to them.

1144
00:58:37.720 --> 00:58:39.640
Show them some love,
show them some support.

1145
00:58:39.720 --> 00:58:42.760
[Stef] The more that you can watch
and like and support,

1146
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:44.440
and talk about it in a public way,

1147
00:58:44.520 --> 00:58:47.840
the content relating to women's rugby,
and to teams you like.

1148
00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:49.880
That's a bigger action
than you might realise.

1149
00:58:50.240 --> 00:58:52.760
And it has knock-on effects
in a number of different ways

1150
00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:55.600
but it helps people
that are looking at our sports

1151
00:58:55.680 --> 00:58:57.040
from an investment perspective.

1152
00:58:57.120 --> 00:58:59.480
It helps them believe
that it matters to other people.

1153
00:59:02.600 --> 00:59:04.440
There are moments
where it's really difficult

1154
00:59:04.520 --> 00:59:07.800
and there are definitely times
that you're so tired, you don't...

1155
00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:10.880
you struggle to find a reason
why you're doing all this.

1156
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:13.280
And in those moments, I think a lot about

1157
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:15.560
the concept of leaving the jersey better
than you found it

1158
00:59:15.640 --> 00:59:17.480
for the next generation, like I...

1159
00:59:17.560 --> 00:59:22.080
grew up not ever thinking that
there would be any professional

1160
00:59:22.160 --> 00:59:24.600
women's sports in any capacity,
much less for rugby.

1161
00:59:24.680 --> 00:59:28.880
There are so many young girls watching
our games, following us on social media,

1162
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:31.600
who are going to grow up knowing that
this is a possibility for them,

1163
00:59:31.680 --> 00:59:33.240
and knowing that this is something
that they could do

1164
00:59:33.320 --> 00:59:34.560
and they could make a career out of.

1165
00:59:34.640 --> 00:59:39.320
And that's what keeps me going
when I'm struggling to find a reason to.

1166
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:42.560
I think it's the hope that what I'm doing
is going to make things better

1167
00:59:42.640 --> 00:59:43.920
for the next generation.

1168
00:59:45.520 --> 00:59:46.680
[Shaunagh] It's got to come in investment

1169
00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:49.720
and investment is the word it is,

1170
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:52.000
it's not throwing money at a situation,

1171
00:59:52.080 --> 00:59:54.600
or throwing money down a drain,
it's an investment.

1172
00:59:54.680 --> 00:59:58.200
And in so many
financial situations in life,

1173
00:59:58.280 --> 01:00:00.000
when you invest in,

1174
01:00:00.080 --> 01:00:02.760
whether it's a product,
or a service or a person,

1175
01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:07.040
or property... like, you don't get
your money back straight away.

1176
01:00:07.120 --> 01:00:09.920
You don't get your money back
in five or ten years.

1177
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:13.040
You get your money back
in the 20, 25 years-plus slot.

1178
01:00:13.120 --> 01:00:16.240
So it's about companies now realising

1179
01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:19.440
that it's a good time to invest
in women's rugby

1180
01:00:19.520 --> 01:00:23.000
and accept that they're not going to get
their returns anytime soon.

1181
01:00:23.080 --> 01:00:25.640
But number one,
it's the right thing to do,

1182
01:00:25.720 --> 01:00:28.080
and number two, they will get it...

1183
01:00:28.160 --> 01:00:30.280
it will be...

1184
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:33.840
in 25 years,
when we are fully professional

1185
01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:37.600
as a sport, as a Premier 15s...

1186
01:00:37.680 --> 01:00:40.600
that people will look back and go, "Oh..."

1187
01:00:40.680 --> 01:00:43.200
I'm so glad that this company
put the money in at this point

1188
01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:45.880
because that's now the reason
the game is so good.

1189
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:50.400
[cheers and applause]

1190
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:52.840
And if you put your money
where your mouth is,

1191
01:00:52.920 --> 01:00:55.000
us, as women,

1192
01:00:55.080 --> 01:00:59.200
we'll show you we are worthy,
as we always do.

1193
01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:01.080
Mic drop!

1194
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:21.400
-I can do the snappy thing now.
-[director] OK.

1195
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:23.280
[crew] Take one.

1196
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:25.480
[Lesley] Oh! This is technical stuff. Ooh!

1197
01:01:25.560 --> 01:01:28.280
-Action!
-I don't get the clicky board!

1198
01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:32.320
The only reason I did this documentary
is just to be the person that goes...

1199
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:34.760
But now I'm not. No.

1200
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:43.160
And if you want to hit record
'cause obviously that's--

1201
01:01:43.240 --> 01:01:44.720
-Oh, it's recording.
-I'm already recording.

1202
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:45.880
Oh, sorry, mate.

1203
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:07.120
I'll do my Beyoncé bit in a minute.

1204
01:03:08.200 --> 01:03:09.160
[crew 2] Rolling.