WEBVTT FILE
1
00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:03.799
[electricity buzzing]
2
00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:07.000
Downloaded from
YTS.MX
3
00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:13.000
Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
4
00:00:16.282 --> 00:00:17.661
INTERVIEWER:
Are we doing a disservice
5
00:00:17.661 --> 00:00:19.330
to the individuality of you
6
00:00:19.330 --> 00:00:21.627
and the rest
of the young group that,
7
00:00:21.627 --> 00:00:24.048
by calling you the Brat Pack
8
00:00:24.048 --> 00:00:28.098
and by sort of
putting in one group
9
00:00:28.098 --> 00:00:31.020
and stereotyping
all of you as young actors
10
00:00:31.020 --> 00:00:33.734
who've made it
and who now sort of control
11
00:00:33.734 --> 00:00:36.030
a lot of Hollywood?
- [laughs]
12
00:00:36.030 --> 00:00:38.577
Oh, I wouldn't say control,
but--
13
00:00:38.577 --> 00:00:40.497
INTERVIEWER: But are part
of the sort of--
14
00:00:40.497 --> 00:00:42.502
Well, I think it's easy
to just group people
15
00:00:42.502 --> 00:00:44.756
together in any level.
16
00:00:44.756 --> 00:00:48.597
So it's just an easier way
to get a handle on people,
17
00:00:48.597 --> 00:00:50.810
but I think all of us
are very different.
18
00:00:50.810 --> 00:00:54.317
[keyboard clacking]
19
00:00:54.317 --> 00:00:55.695
INTERVIEWER:
Does it offend you
20
00:00:55.695 --> 00:00:57.574
when they talk about
the Brat Pack?
21
00:00:57.574 --> 00:00:59.493
ANDREW: I kind of let it--
try and let it,
22
00:00:59.493 --> 00:01:01.915
like, slide off your back.
I mean, it happens.
23
00:01:01.915 --> 00:01:03.794
And that stuff will sift
itself out, I think.
24
00:01:03.794 --> 00:01:05.380
INTERVIEWER:
Now, you've met early success.
25
00:01:05.380 --> 00:01:07.134
Lots of people struggle
for a long time.
26
00:01:07.134 --> 00:01:09.848
Is this an uncertain period
for you?
27
00:01:09.848 --> 00:01:13.564
ANDREW: [laughs]
28
00:01:13.564 --> 00:01:17.029
If you were coming
of age in the 1980s,
29
00:01:17.029 --> 00:01:22.749
then the Brat Pack was at
or near the center
30
00:01:22.749 --> 00:01:25.170
of your cultural awareness.
31
00:01:25.170 --> 00:01:29.178
I mean, we were who you wanted
to hang with, who you emulated
32
00:01:29.178 --> 00:01:32.101
or envied,
who you wanted to party with.
33
00:01:32.101 --> 00:01:36.025
But for those of us
experiencing the Brat Pack
34
00:01:36.025 --> 00:01:41.119
from the inside, it was
something very different.
35
00:01:41.119 --> 00:01:42.454
INTERVIEWER:
Is it overwhelming?
36
00:01:42.454 --> 00:01:44.291
Is it ever overwhelming, the--
37
00:01:44.291 --> 00:01:46.129
what you have in front of you
and what all you can do?
38
00:01:46.129 --> 00:01:47.966
Right, um...
39
00:01:47.966 --> 00:01:49.385
And perhaps the pressure,
too, there?
40
00:01:49.385 --> 00:01:50.847
- You're 22 now?
- 22.
41
00:01:50.847 --> 00:01:52.057
[interviewer whistles]
INTERVIEWER: Wow.
42
00:01:52.057 --> 00:01:53.351
I thought
I was gonna get used to it,
43
00:01:53.351 --> 00:01:55.565
and I don't think I ever quite
got used to it.
44
00:01:55.565 --> 00:01:58.863
And we fit a niche
that needed to be filled
45
00:01:58.863 --> 00:02:01.577
in pop culture
at that moment, you know?
46
00:02:01.577 --> 00:02:05.459
And what was that?
What was the need to create us?
47
00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:08.047
We were a group
of young actors
48
00:02:08.047 --> 00:02:09.676
who were trying
to have careers,
49
00:02:09.676 --> 00:02:14.185
and we were suddenly
bonded together indelibly
50
00:02:14.185 --> 00:02:17.984
forever as this unit.
51
00:02:17.984 --> 00:02:21.240
However much sort of truth or
not truth is involved in it,
52
00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:22.785
it doesn't really matter.
53
00:02:22.785 --> 00:02:24.873
And I think that's
what some of us
54
00:02:24.873 --> 00:02:26.459
resented so much
at the beginning is that,
55
00:02:26.459 --> 00:02:28.964
this isn't the right perception
of who we are.
56
00:02:28.964 --> 00:02:30.885
This isn't the reality
of our experience.
57
00:02:30.885 --> 00:02:34.391
[dramatic music]
58
00:02:34.391 --> 00:02:37.439
[Joy Division's
"Love Will Tear Us Apart"]
59
00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:44.453
♪ ♪
60
00:02:59.108 --> 00:03:02.532
IAN:
♪ When routine bites hard ♪
61
00:03:02.532 --> 00:03:04.285
♪ And ambitions are low ♪
62
00:03:04.285 --> 00:03:06.790
ANDREW: When I was 17,
I moved into New York City,
63
00:03:06.790 --> 00:03:08.627
and I lived on the
fourth floor of this building
64
00:03:08.627 --> 00:03:11.132
right off
Washington Square Park.
65
00:03:11.132 --> 00:03:14.305
In 1980, New York City
was a completely
66
00:03:14.305 --> 00:03:16.475
different place than it is now.
67
00:03:16.475 --> 00:03:20.233
♪ ♪
68
00:03:20.233 --> 00:03:22.655
[police sirens wailing]
69
00:03:25.911 --> 00:03:27.414
People always say that
about the past, don't they?
70
00:03:27.414 --> 00:03:28.626
[laughing]
But it was.
71
00:03:28.626 --> 00:03:31.882
It was scary.
It was thrilling.
72
00:03:31.882 --> 00:03:33.927
It was dirty.
73
00:03:33.927 --> 00:03:36.808
And I spent most of my time
right here
74
00:03:36.808 --> 00:03:40.065
in Washington Square Park
because I was at NYU.
75
00:03:40.065 --> 00:03:42.152
And when I was
cutting my classes,
76
00:03:42.152 --> 00:03:44.658
I used to play frisbee
in the park every day
77
00:03:44.658 --> 00:03:48.666
and buy two joints every day
from the same Rastafarian
78
00:03:48.666 --> 00:03:51.672
playing soccer right here.
I'd smoke them.
79
00:03:51.672 --> 00:03:53.341
I'd go home and watch
The Rockford Files.
80
00:03:53.341 --> 00:03:54.844
[laughs]
81
00:03:54.844 --> 00:03:57.558
I was not exactly
the guy most likely to be
82
00:03:57.558 --> 00:03:59.729
in the movies two years later.
83
00:04:01.482 --> 00:04:03.111
ROSCOE: Oh, whoa!
Jeez, oh, God!
84
00:04:05.156 --> 00:04:06.535
Great, douche bag.
85
00:04:08.454 --> 00:04:10.835
ANDREW: And then suddenly
the fortunes
86
00:04:10.835 --> 00:04:14.049
of a group of young actors,
including me, soared.
87
00:04:14.049 --> 00:04:16.763
[Bob Seger's
"Old Time Rock and Roll"]
88
00:04:16.763 --> 00:04:18.642
Hollywood discovered
the box office
89
00:04:18.642 --> 00:04:20.563
potential of a young audience.
90
00:04:20.563 --> 00:04:24.153
BOB: ♪ Just take those old
records off the shelf ♪
91
00:04:24.153 --> 00:04:25.447
ANDREW: They aimed
their moneymaking
92
00:04:25.447 --> 00:04:28.119
tractor beam directly at it.
93
00:04:28.119 --> 00:04:31.793
BOB: ♪ Today's music
ain't got the same soul ♪
94
00:04:31.793 --> 00:04:35.258
♪ I like that old-time
rock and roll ♪
95
00:04:35.258 --> 00:04:38.056
It's the Hollywood
class of 1985.
96
00:04:38.056 --> 00:04:39.684
A crop of young movie actors
97
00:04:39.684 --> 00:04:41.730
that's giving young audiences
a whole new generation
98
00:04:41.730 --> 00:04:43.609
of heroes to root for.
99
00:04:43.609 --> 00:04:45.863
It's an incredible time
to be 22, 23 right now
100
00:04:45.863 --> 00:04:49.453
and to be a young actor because
the films are catering to us.
101
00:04:49.453 --> 00:04:51.165
But right now, it's great.
102
00:04:51.165 --> 00:04:53.211
The movies are being made
about my age of people.
103
00:04:53.211 --> 00:04:54.631
That's the audience
that's going.
104
00:04:54.631 --> 00:04:55.841
ANDREW: Audiences, they--
105
00:04:55.841 --> 00:04:57.344
they couldn't get
enough of us.
106
00:04:57.344 --> 00:04:58.680
It seemed that every weekend,
107
00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:00.308
there was another movie,
and another movie,
108
00:05:00.308 --> 00:05:03.857
and another movie about
and starring young people.
109
00:05:03.857 --> 00:05:08.407
In the history of Hollywood,
it had never been like this.
110
00:05:08.407 --> 00:05:10.453
This sounds like
a dream come true.
111
00:05:10.453 --> 00:05:13.251
You are all in your early 20s,
and you're stars.
112
00:05:13.251 --> 00:05:14.671
[applause]
113
00:05:14.671 --> 00:05:16.716
Welcome, if you will,
Molly Ringwald.
114
00:05:16.716 --> 00:05:20.348
[cheering]
115
00:05:20.348 --> 00:05:24.858
And then on June 10, 1985,
New York Magazine
116
00:05:24.858 --> 00:05:28.740
published a story called
"Hollywood's Brat Pack."
117
00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:31.370
It was originally intended
to be this small feature
118
00:05:31.370 --> 00:05:32.707
on Emilio Estevez.
119
00:05:32.707 --> 00:05:34.669
It took off and became
this whole other thing.
120
00:05:34.669 --> 00:05:36.422
The hottest stars
in the movies today
121
00:05:36.422 --> 00:05:38.467
are officially known
as the Brat Pack.
122
00:05:38.467 --> 00:05:41.473
[The Cure's
"Just Like Heaven"]
123
00:05:41.473 --> 00:05:45.649
♪ ♪
124
00:05:45.649 --> 00:05:47.653
REPORTER: And so we return
to the week's new releases
125
00:05:47.653 --> 00:05:50.200
and St. Elmo's Fire, which
stars a group of young actors
126
00:05:50.200 --> 00:05:52.078
who are fast becoming
known as the Brat Pack.
127
00:05:52.078 --> 00:05:53.916
A card-carrying member
of the Brat Pack.
128
00:05:53.916 --> 00:05:55.878
A cover titled the Brat Pack.
129
00:05:55.878 --> 00:05:57.213
They're the Brat Pack.
130
00:05:57.213 --> 00:05:58.592
What is the Brat Pack?
131
00:05:58.592 --> 00:05:59.928
REPORTER:
Everyone in this group
132
00:05:59.928 --> 00:06:02.307
is a most-likely-to-succeed.
133
00:06:02.307 --> 00:06:04.311
They are ambitious, committed,
and many of them
134
00:06:04.311 --> 00:06:06.148
have real talent.
135
00:06:06.148 --> 00:06:09.948
♪ ♪
136
00:06:09.948 --> 00:06:11.492
ANDREW:
Within days, news outlets
137
00:06:11.492 --> 00:06:14.707
around the country were using
the term "Brat Pack."
138
00:06:14.707 --> 00:06:16.503
There's a big article
in New York Magazine...
139
00:06:16.503 --> 00:06:17.755
Yes.
140
00:06:17.755 --> 00:06:19.299
About something
called the Brat Pack.
141
00:06:19.299 --> 00:06:21.261
Right, right, and I heard
that you wanted to join.
142
00:06:21.261 --> 00:06:22.974
- I'd like to be in this group.
- Yeah, right.
143
00:06:22.974 --> 00:06:24.184
ROBERT:
♪ Show me, show me, show me ♪
144
00:06:24.184 --> 00:06:26.355
♪ How you do that trick ♪
145
00:06:26.355 --> 00:06:29.361
♪ The one that makes
me scream, she said ♪
146
00:06:29.361 --> 00:06:32.952
♪ The one that makes
me laugh, she said ♪
147
00:06:32.952 --> 00:06:35.206
Is this the future--
what is--
148
00:06:35.206 --> 00:06:37.962
are these the Brandos?
- Well, talk to Brando.
149
00:06:37.962 --> 00:06:40.466
You would replace
Katharine Hepburn tomorrow.
150
00:06:40.466 --> 00:06:44.892
♪ I promise that
I'll run away with you ♪
151
00:06:44.892 --> 00:06:46.980
♪ I'll run away with you ♪
152
00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:48.692
♪ ♪
153
00:06:48.692 --> 00:06:51.865
I just remember seeing
that cover and thinking,
154
00:06:51.865 --> 00:06:54.954
"oh, fuck."
155
00:06:54.954 --> 00:06:57.710
I just thought
that was terrible instantly.
156
00:06:57.710 --> 00:07:00.381
And it turns out,
uh, I was right.
157
00:07:00.381 --> 00:07:01.968
[laughs]
It was--
158
00:07:01.968 --> 00:07:05.224
the article was scathing
about all these young actors.
159
00:07:05.224 --> 00:07:07.813
And the phrase,
being such a clever,
160
00:07:07.813 --> 00:07:10.694
witty phrase, you know,
it caught the zeitgeist
161
00:07:10.694 --> 00:07:13.324
instantly and burned deep,
and that was it.
162
00:07:13.324 --> 00:07:15.537
From then on, my career
163
00:07:15.537 --> 00:07:17.040
and the career
of several other people
164
00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.379
was branded without
any wiggle room
165
00:07:20.379 --> 00:07:21.716
as the Brat Pack.
166
00:07:21.716 --> 00:07:23.970
I'm really sorry
that article had to come out.
167
00:07:23.970 --> 00:07:25.599
You know, it was just when,
you know,
168
00:07:25.599 --> 00:07:27.812
kids, young, you know, adults
169
00:07:27.812 --> 00:07:29.314
were beginning
to find their place,
170
00:07:29.314 --> 00:07:31.276
you know, in this business.
171
00:07:31.276 --> 00:07:32.320
INTERVIEWER:
It's a clever line,
172
00:07:32.320 --> 00:07:33.532
"Brat Pack."
- Yeah.
173
00:07:33.532 --> 00:07:34.784
INTERVIEWER:
But what does it mean, really?
174
00:07:34.784 --> 00:07:35.994
You know what?
175
00:07:35.994 --> 00:07:38.374
It-- it was a term
created by the media.
176
00:07:38.374 --> 00:07:39.585
It was a nice, generic term.
177
00:07:39.585 --> 00:07:41.004
You know, you don't say
a "Tylenol."
178
00:07:41.004 --> 00:07:42.340
You say an "aspirin."
179
00:07:42.340 --> 00:07:44.136
You don't say a "Rob Lowe."
You say a "Brat".
180
00:07:44.136 --> 00:07:46.306
Do you know what I mean?
That's how it was created.
181
00:07:46.306 --> 00:07:47.518
INTERVIEWER:
Are you offended by it?
182
00:07:47.518 --> 00:07:48.854
Very much so.
183
00:07:48.854 --> 00:07:50.439
ANDREW: I don't really think
it's a valid thing.
184
00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:52.443
I mean, we all don't go
to the same bar every night,
185
00:07:52.443 --> 00:07:54.866
and talk about chicks
and, you know,
186
00:07:54.866 --> 00:07:56.493
throw back a few brews.
187
00:07:56.493 --> 00:08:00.711
I mean, I don't think
it exists per se.
188
00:08:00.711 --> 00:08:01.880
They thought
I was their friend.
189
00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:03.842
Well, you know,
the honest truth is,
190
00:08:03.842 --> 00:08:06.388
you know, we're not friends,
and I never said that we were.
191
00:08:06.388 --> 00:08:08.727
I'm sorry he didn't realize
that or that he was operating
192
00:08:08.727 --> 00:08:10.438
under a different set
of ideas about
193
00:08:10.438 --> 00:08:12.693
what the relationship between
a journalist and a subject is.
194
00:08:12.693 --> 00:08:14.070
It doesn't apply.
195
00:08:14.070 --> 00:08:15.532
It never did.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah?
196
00:08:15.532 --> 00:08:17.160
And it was just
some writer's
197
00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:19.247
silly imagination or label
198
00:08:19.247 --> 00:08:22.128
that he could sort of stamp
on this young group of actors
199
00:08:22.128 --> 00:08:24.634
that he didn't have
any other explanation for.
200
00:08:24.634 --> 00:08:26.094
The name alone--
201
00:08:26.094 --> 00:08:28.683
the term alone always brings up
this defensive quality.
202
00:08:28.683 --> 00:08:30.353
And so--
203
00:08:30.353 --> 00:08:32.273
INTERVIEWER: Did you ever feel
a part of the Brat Pack
204
00:08:32.273 --> 00:08:33.860
that you're
so closely associated--
205
00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:35.196
No, I felt a part
of a group of young actors
206
00:08:35.196 --> 00:08:37.116
that worked continually
with each other.
207
00:08:37.116 --> 00:08:39.246
The Brat Pack is an image
that somebody thought up
208
00:08:39.246 --> 00:08:41.083
who doesn't know
anything about us.
209
00:08:41.083 --> 00:08:42.920
That I can't
trust anyone now.
210
00:08:42.920 --> 00:08:45.258
That's what I learned.
That's what I learned.
211
00:08:45.258 --> 00:08:46.511
[soft dramatic music]
212
00:08:46.511 --> 00:08:48.055
ANDREW: That changed my life.
213
00:08:48.055 --> 00:08:51.311
And that changed everyone
who was involved's life.
214
00:08:51.311 --> 00:08:53.148
Once the Brat Pack thing
happened,
215
00:08:53.148 --> 00:08:55.444
everyone just sort of,
poof, scattered.
216
00:08:55.444 --> 00:08:58.785
Because it was--
it was such a stigma
217
00:08:58.785 --> 00:09:01.666
early on that we didn't want
to be associated with it.
218
00:09:01.666 --> 00:09:05.590
I've never talked to anybody
about what that was like.
219
00:09:05.590 --> 00:09:09.264
It certainly was
a defining thing in my life,
220
00:09:09.264 --> 00:09:13.355
and I imagine
it was in theirs as well.
221
00:09:13.355 --> 00:09:16.445
So I thought it might be
interesting to try and contact
222
00:09:16.445 --> 00:09:18.950
everyone who was in
the Brat Pack
223
00:09:18.950 --> 00:09:20.537
or who might have been
associated with the Brat--
224
00:09:20.537 --> 00:09:22.875
and sort of see what their
experience was at that time
225
00:09:22.875 --> 00:09:27.383
and what it's come to mean
all these years, decades later.
226
00:09:27.383 --> 00:09:30.389
[bright orchestral music]
227
00:09:30.389 --> 00:09:37.236
♪ ♪
228
00:09:37.236 --> 00:09:39.157
I think the first thing
we need to establish
229
00:09:39.157 --> 00:09:41.370
is, like, who is in
the Brat Pack, right?
230
00:09:41.370 --> 00:09:42.998
[laughs]
There's me.
231
00:09:42.998 --> 00:09:48.092
There's Rob Lowe, Judd Nelson,
Emilio Estevez, Ally Sheedy.
232
00:09:48.092 --> 00:09:51.139
Demi Moore, Molly Ringwald.
233
00:09:51.139 --> 00:09:52.685
It's a moveable feast, I think.
234
00:09:52.685 --> 00:09:57.110
Anyway, so I know
it started with Emilio
235
00:09:57.110 --> 00:09:59.239
because it was
the article about him
236
00:09:59.239 --> 00:10:00.701
that created the whole thing.
237
00:10:00.701 --> 00:10:02.996
So I'm calling Emilio.
238
00:10:02.996 --> 00:10:05.251
[line trilling]
239
00:10:05.251 --> 00:10:07.004
Hey, Emilio Estevez.
240
00:10:07.004 --> 00:10:08.550
This is Andrew McCarthy
calling you.
241
00:10:08.550 --> 00:10:10.887
That was nice,
to just hear your voice there.
242
00:10:10.887 --> 00:10:14.102
I hope you're well.
Long time.
243
00:10:14.102 --> 00:10:15.647
Give me a call
if you get a chance.
244
00:10:15.647 --> 00:10:17.943
I'd love to talk to you
about something.
245
00:10:17.943 --> 00:10:19.655
I think I'll call Ally,
246
00:10:19.655 --> 00:10:22.326
but it could be 30 years
since I've seen Ally.
247
00:10:22.326 --> 00:10:24.999
I got her number
from a friend of mine.
248
00:10:24.999 --> 00:10:26.251
Let's call her up.
249
00:10:26.251 --> 00:10:27.378
[line trilling]
250
00:10:27.378 --> 00:10:28.673
Hey, Ally.
251
00:10:28.673 --> 00:10:30.301
This is Andrew McCarthy
calling you.
252
00:10:30.301 --> 00:10:32.346
Hey, Molly.
Nice to hear your voice.
253
00:10:32.346 --> 00:10:33.725
Andrew McCarthy calling you up.
254
00:10:33.725 --> 00:10:35.102
How are you?
255
00:10:35.102 --> 00:10:37.273
It's so strange to hear
people's voices again.
256
00:10:37.273 --> 00:10:39.695
I haven't been able to find
Judd Nelson's phone number.
257
00:10:39.695 --> 00:10:41.323
I don't know anybody
who knows his phone number.
258
00:10:41.323 --> 00:10:43.786
I asked his manager about it.
259
00:10:43.786 --> 00:10:45.957
But we are
Brat Pack brethren and--
260
00:10:45.957 --> 00:10:47.168
[laughs]
261
00:10:47.168 --> 00:10:50.174
[upbeat jazzy music]
262
00:10:50.174 --> 00:10:51.384
♪ ♪
263
00:10:51.384 --> 00:10:52.470
Hey, Demi.
264
00:10:52.470 --> 00:10:53.472
This is Andrew McCarthy
calling.
265
00:10:53.472 --> 00:10:54.934
How are you?
266
00:10:54.934 --> 00:10:56.269
Listen, I'd love to chat
with you about something.
267
00:10:56.269 --> 00:10:57.396
If you get a chance,
give me a call back.
268
00:10:57.396 --> 00:10:59.693
That was Demi.
I left her a message.
269
00:10:59.693 --> 00:11:02.741
Let's call Rob.
270
00:11:02.741 --> 00:11:06.122
[line trilling]
Ugh.
271
00:11:06.122 --> 00:11:07.543
VOICEMAIL: Automated
voice message system.
272
00:11:07.543 --> 00:11:09.713
Hey, Rob.
Andrew McCarthy calling you.
273
00:11:09.713 --> 00:11:11.299
I'd love to chat with you
if you have a chance.
274
00:11:11.299 --> 00:11:12.678
Give me a call.
917--
275
00:11:12.678 --> 00:11:13.763
[phone ringing]
276
00:11:13.763 --> 00:11:14.974
Are you ready to go
on the camera?
277
00:11:14.974 --> 00:11:18.063
CAMERAPERSON:
Uh, yeah, rolling.
278
00:11:18.063 --> 00:11:19.315
Hello.
279
00:11:19.315 --> 00:11:21.319
SPEAKER: Andrew?
- Yep.
280
00:11:21.319 --> 00:11:22.573
SPEAKER: Hi.
- Hey, man.
281
00:11:22.573 --> 00:11:24.242
How are you?
[laughs]
282
00:11:24.242 --> 00:11:26.329
How has your life been
the last 30 years?
283
00:11:26.329 --> 00:11:28.166
[laughs]
[phone ringing]
284
00:11:28.166 --> 00:11:30.462
How are you?
285
00:11:30.462 --> 00:11:32.968
[laughs]
[phone ringing]
286
00:11:32.968 --> 00:11:34.638
So where are you now, Demi?
287
00:11:34.638 --> 00:11:36.893
DEMI: In LA right now,
but I've been going
288
00:11:36.893 --> 00:11:38.897
back and forth between here--
289
00:11:38.897 --> 00:11:41.234
ANDREW: We were such
a select kind of group of--
290
00:11:41.234 --> 00:11:43.363
you know,
this happened to all of us.
291
00:11:43.363 --> 00:11:45.535
And it fell down
on all of us in such a way,
292
00:11:45.535 --> 00:11:47.455
and I've never talked
to anybody about it,
293
00:11:47.455 --> 00:11:50.294
and it affected my life
so massively and--
294
00:11:50.294 --> 00:11:51.881
right?
And so I would just love
295
00:11:51.881 --> 00:11:55.095
to get your perspective.
[phone ringing]
296
00:11:55.095 --> 00:11:56.473
Judd Nelson.
297
00:11:56.473 --> 00:11:58.770
So Rob just
called me back here.
298
00:11:58.770 --> 00:12:00.732
I'm in a hotel in Chicago.
299
00:12:00.732 --> 00:12:02.026
I've just landed here.
SPEAKER: Hey.
300
00:12:02.026 --> 00:12:03.028
Hey, man.
301
00:12:03.028 --> 00:12:04.657
How are you?
[chuckles]
302
00:12:04.657 --> 00:12:07.286
Well, you know, you, Rob,
me, you know, Ally--
303
00:12:07.286 --> 00:12:09.207
whoever is actually in
the Brat Pack.
304
00:12:09.207 --> 00:12:12.673
And I wanted to sort of make
a documentary about it.
305
00:12:12.673 --> 00:12:14.510
Well, that's the whole point
of talking about it,
306
00:12:14.510 --> 00:12:16.597
so we don't get triggered
by these things anymore,
307
00:12:16.597 --> 00:12:17.974
you know?
308
00:12:17.974 --> 00:12:20.354
Oh, my gosh, there's my dog,
who weighs 75 pounds.
309
00:12:20.354 --> 00:12:22.400
[laughter]
310
00:12:22.400 --> 00:12:24.613
Do you think Willow
weighs 75 pounds?
311
00:12:24.613 --> 00:12:27.577
No, the dog, not Willow.
Anyway.
312
00:12:27.577 --> 00:12:30.416
When would you
want to do it?
313
00:12:30.416 --> 00:12:33.506
When would you want to do it?
314
00:12:33.506 --> 00:12:35.342
Oh, don't tell me
any of this now.
315
00:12:35.342 --> 00:12:37.471
Don't tell me now.
I want to get it all on film.
316
00:12:37.471 --> 00:12:39.601
[laughs]
So could I come out to Malibu,
317
00:12:39.601 --> 00:12:40.729
and sit down with you
with a camera
318
00:12:40.729 --> 00:12:42.148
and chat about it?
319
00:12:42.148 --> 00:12:45.404
[Steve Winwood's
"Back in the High Life Again"]
320
00:12:45.404 --> 00:12:48.285
♪ ♪
321
00:12:48.285 --> 00:12:52.001
When I was 22 years old,
I bought my first toy.
322
00:12:52.001 --> 00:12:55.257
I bought a 1967
red Camaro convertible.
323
00:12:55.257 --> 00:12:57.929
Now, here I am, 59 years old.
324
00:12:57.929 --> 00:13:00.476
I'm driving a red
rental Camaro convertible.
325
00:13:00.476 --> 00:13:05.277
What makes you a cool kid at 22
makes you a fool at 59.
326
00:13:05.277 --> 00:13:06.906
[laughs]
327
00:13:06.906 --> 00:13:12.082
STEVE: ♪ I'll be back
in the high life again ♪
328
00:13:12.082 --> 00:13:18.470
♪ All the doors I closed
one time will open up again ♪
329
00:13:18.470 --> 00:13:19.973
♪ I'll be back in the ♪
330
00:13:19.973 --> 00:13:22.854
ANDREW: Heading up to see
Emilio here in Malibu.
331
00:13:22.854 --> 00:13:26.319
I haven't seen Emilio
since maybe the premiere night
332
00:13:26.319 --> 00:13:27.614
of St. Elmo's Fire.
333
00:13:27.614 --> 00:13:29.075
So what's that,
30-odd years ago?
334
00:13:29.075 --> 00:13:30.410
I am Bob, yeah.
335
00:13:30.410 --> 00:13:31.454
ANDREW: Yeah,
I haven't seen him since.
336
00:13:31.454 --> 00:13:32.958
Then you know good.
337
00:13:32.958 --> 00:13:34.085
- I love your stuff, Bob.
- Hey, thank you.
338
00:13:34.085 --> 00:13:35.420
- Take care.
- Hey.
339
00:13:35.420 --> 00:13:36.549
ANDREW: I always felt like
he was sort of
340
00:13:36.549 --> 00:13:37.968
an insider in some club.
341
00:13:37.968 --> 00:13:40.640
And I always felt like
the guy on the outside.
342
00:13:40.640 --> 00:13:42.602
You know?
I lived in New York.
343
00:13:42.602 --> 00:13:44.063
All the other guys lived here.
344
00:13:44.063 --> 00:13:45.190
And Emilio seemed
to know more than anybody,
345
00:13:45.190 --> 00:13:46.777
like, what the deal was.
346
00:13:46.777 --> 00:13:49.365
So it'll be great to see him
and get his take on all this.
347
00:13:49.365 --> 00:13:50.869
Because I know
Emilio hasn't talked much
348
00:13:50.869 --> 00:13:53.958
about the Brat Pack
in all these years.
349
00:13:55.085 --> 00:13:56.462
Hold on, dude.
350
00:13:56.462 --> 00:13:57.632
Take your time.
351
00:13:57.632 --> 00:14:00.304
I missed the grid.
I missed the grid.
352
00:14:00.304 --> 00:14:02.141
What number is that?
I don't know.
353
00:14:02.141 --> 00:14:03.268
Yo!
354
00:14:03.268 --> 00:14:05.439
[laughs]
There's Emilio.
355
00:14:05.439 --> 00:14:07.318
[laughs]
EMILIO: How are you?
356
00:14:07.318 --> 00:14:08.696
I'm so glad to see you.
357
00:14:08.696 --> 00:14:09.948
This is Ed.
This is Emilio.
358
00:14:09.948 --> 00:14:11.159
Emilio.
Nice to see you.
359
00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:12.411
Good morning.
Nice to see you.
360
00:14:12.411 --> 00:14:13.413
Are you good?
Are you rolling?
361
00:14:13.413 --> 00:14:14.498
Yeah.
362
00:14:14.498 --> 00:14:16.503
Have you seen this
in 30-odd years?
363
00:14:16.503 --> 00:14:18.507
I probably have online.
364
00:14:18.507 --> 00:14:20.344
Well, I had seen it online
when I did--
365
00:14:20.344 --> 00:14:22.014
but there's all the artwork
366
00:14:22.014 --> 00:14:23.935
and everything to it,
you know?
367
00:14:23.935 --> 00:14:25.479
And it's interesting.
368
00:14:25.479 --> 00:14:27.776
Have you read it
in the past ever years?
369
00:14:27.776 --> 00:14:29.278
EMILIO: No.
ANDREW: I mean, it's--
370
00:14:29.278 --> 00:14:30.573
EMILIO: Massive feature.
371
00:14:30.573 --> 00:14:31.575
ANDREW: Massive story,
isn't it?
372
00:14:31.575 --> 00:14:32.953
Yep.
373
00:14:32.953 --> 00:14:34.080
ANDREW:
Well, the first question I--
374
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.541
[laughs]
375
00:14:35.541 --> 00:14:36.877
This might end
our conversation right now.
376
00:14:36.877 --> 00:14:38.213
There's just-- no,
there's just so much, Andrew.
377
00:14:38.213 --> 00:14:39.508
First of all--
378
00:14:39.508 --> 00:14:41.052
It's like, what the fuck
were you thinking?
379
00:14:41.052 --> 00:14:42.096
[laughs]
380
00:14:42.096 --> 00:14:43.975
Well, I wasn't.
381
00:14:43.975 --> 00:14:47.857
And I had had some experience
and had done some press
382
00:14:47.857 --> 00:14:52.701
but nothing to the extent of,
like, a real sort of profile,
383
00:14:52.701 --> 00:14:54.453
which made me uncomfortable.
384
00:14:54.453 --> 00:14:57.669
It was naive of me
to think that this journalist
385
00:14:57.669 --> 00:15:00.340
would, in fact, be my friend.
386
00:15:00.340 --> 00:15:02.094
I think the most upsetting
about it--
387
00:15:02.094 --> 00:15:05.727
because I had already seen
a different path for myself,
388
00:15:05.727 --> 00:15:07.564
and I felt derailed.
389
00:15:07.564 --> 00:15:09.693
Emilio Estevez is the son
of actor Martin Sheen,
390
00:15:09.693 --> 00:15:12.949
but he has made a name
for himself on his own.
391
00:15:12.949 --> 00:15:14.619
Do you have any feeling
as to which direction
392
00:15:14.619 --> 00:15:15.913
your career will take?
393
00:15:15.913 --> 00:15:17.458
EMILIO: The opportunities
are just--
394
00:15:17.458 --> 00:15:19.128
are endless.
Very exciting.
395
00:15:19.128 --> 00:15:20.380
REPORTER: At 23 years old.
396
00:15:20.380 --> 00:15:21.550
EMILIO: Yes.
397
00:15:21.550 --> 00:15:24.221
Ah, thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
398
00:15:24.221 --> 00:15:25.933
ASSISTANT: There's also juice
if you need it.
399
00:15:25.933 --> 00:15:27.352
OK, thanks.
400
00:15:27.352 --> 00:15:28.856
ANDREW: I mean, the fallout
in my recollection is
401
00:15:28.856 --> 00:15:30.943
it was immediate and big.
402
00:15:30.943 --> 00:15:32.321
You and I didn't do a movie
because of it.
403
00:15:32.321 --> 00:15:33.448
ANDREW: This is what I thought.
404
00:15:33.448 --> 00:15:34.868
And I thought
we were going to--
405
00:15:34.868 --> 00:15:36.287
And this was Young Men
with Unlimited Capital...
406
00:15:36.287 --> 00:15:37.456
ANDREW: Yes.
407
00:15:37.456 --> 00:15:38.834
Which was one
of the best scripts
408
00:15:38.834 --> 00:15:40.337
I had read in a long time.
- You were gonna do it.
409
00:15:40.337 --> 00:15:41.840
And they wanted me
to do it too,
410
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.178
and then they told me that
you didn't want me to do it,
411
00:15:44.178 --> 00:15:45.388
and I just assumed
at the time--
412
00:15:45.388 --> 00:15:46.809
it hurt my feelings a lot,
but I assumed
413
00:15:46.809 --> 00:15:48.394
it was simply
the Brat Pack fallout.
414
00:15:48.394 --> 00:15:50.691
I didn't want to have
anything to do with any of us.
415
00:15:50.691 --> 00:15:52.027
Do you know what I mean?
- Yeah, yeah.
416
00:15:52.027 --> 00:15:53.781
I just--
I didn't want to do any--
417
00:15:53.781 --> 00:15:55.200
I wouldn't-- if it were Judd,
I would have said
418
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.202
the same thing.
419
00:15:56.202 --> 00:15:57.831
To be seen again
in another film
420
00:15:57.831 --> 00:15:59.918
would ultimately
and could potentially
421
00:15:59.918 --> 00:16:01.839
have a negative impact.
422
00:16:01.839 --> 00:16:04.135
Working together just almost
felt like we were--
423
00:16:04.135 --> 00:16:05.972
we were kryptonite
to each other.
424
00:16:05.972 --> 00:16:07.725
ANDREW: My understanding--
you were not interested
425
00:16:07.725 --> 00:16:10.397
in talking about the Brat Pack
for years and years.
426
00:16:10.397 --> 00:16:12.234
I'm asked to do
retrospectives all the time,
427
00:16:12.234 --> 00:16:13.821
whether it's Repo Man,
or The Outsiders,
428
00:16:13.821 --> 00:16:15.741
or Young Guns,
or Breakfast Club.
429
00:16:15.741 --> 00:16:17.244
I turn everything down.
There was an opportunity--
430
00:16:17.244 --> 00:16:18.873
ANDREW: How come
you're talking to me?
431
00:16:18.873 --> 00:16:20.960
Because you called me.
432
00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:22.797
Because you asked.
You called me.
433
00:16:22.797 --> 00:16:28.601
And I also thought it was time
that we sort of clear the air
434
00:16:28.601 --> 00:16:30.103
on a couple of things.
435
00:16:30.103 --> 00:16:31.773
And that Young Men
with Unlimited Capital
436
00:16:31.773 --> 00:16:33.777
was something that
I'm glad we were...
437
00:16:33.777 --> 00:16:35.197
ANDREW: Oh, me, too.
- Able to talk through it.
438
00:16:35.197 --> 00:16:36.575
ANDREW: Because I feel chills
right now.
439
00:16:36.575 --> 00:16:37.869
It's like--
you know, it's nice.
440
00:16:37.869 --> 00:16:39.079
You know, one of the reasons
441
00:16:39.079 --> 00:16:42.169
I started to want
to make this movie--
442
00:16:42.169 --> 00:16:44.423
wow, I really--
it's very touching.
443
00:16:44.423 --> 00:16:47.931
You know, it only happened
to a handful of us,
444
00:16:47.931 --> 00:16:50.018
and it really affected my life.
445
00:16:50.018 --> 00:16:51.479
Which is probably why
I don't--
446
00:16:51.479 --> 00:16:53.399
I'm not interested
in revisiting,
447
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.905
which is why I'm not interested
in, you know,
448
00:16:55.905 --> 00:16:57.449
dredging up the past
449
00:16:57.449 --> 00:16:59.955
because I think
if you're too busy looking
450
00:16:59.955 --> 00:17:02.167
in your rearview mirror and
looking at what's behind you,
451
00:17:02.167 --> 00:17:03.796
you're going to stumble
trying to move forward.
452
00:17:03.796 --> 00:17:05.423
ANDREW: But it's
an interesting thing.
453
00:17:05.423 --> 00:17:07.887
Because if you're confronted
on a however often basis
454
00:17:07.887 --> 00:17:09.599
by people going,
"Oh, the Brat Pack movies,
455
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:11.227
I love St. Elmo's,
I love Breakfast Club,
456
00:17:11.227 --> 00:17:12.981
you're gonna be--
it's not like you can
457
00:17:12.981 --> 00:17:14.567
just sort of put it in the past
and leave it there.
458
00:17:14.567 --> 00:17:16.237
You're gonna be reminded
of it on a weekly,
459
00:17:16.237 --> 00:17:17.406
almost daily basis.
460
00:17:17.406 --> 00:17:18.742
- Daily basis, yeah.
- Right?
461
00:17:18.742 --> 00:17:20.871
We learned to be gracious
and put on a thing.
462
00:17:20.871 --> 00:17:22.457
Of course.
463
00:17:22.457 --> 00:17:24.504
ANDREW: But it's still picking
at whatever it's picking at.
464
00:17:24.504 --> 00:17:25.631
And do people say to you,
465
00:17:25.631 --> 00:17:27.175
"Do you ever see
the old gang anymore?"
466
00:17:27.175 --> 00:17:29.889
Well, the assumption is
that we're all still friends.
467
00:17:29.889 --> 00:17:31.309
That's all you would read
about is,
468
00:17:31.309 --> 00:17:32.812
the Brat Pack went here
and did this.
469
00:17:32.812 --> 00:17:33.939
Yeah.
470
00:17:33.939 --> 00:17:35.442
The Brat Pack
ate a sandwich together.
471
00:17:35.442 --> 00:17:37.780
The Brat Pack
went swimming somewhere.
472
00:17:37.780 --> 00:17:39.158
Yeah.
473
00:17:39.158 --> 00:17:41.162
Are you tight with Molly
and the rest of the guys?
474
00:17:41.162 --> 00:17:43.124
Well, you know
what's really strange
475
00:17:43.124 --> 00:17:45.713
is they sort of assumed
that because we work together,
476
00:17:45.713 --> 00:17:47.215
we would hang out together.
477
00:17:47.215 --> 00:17:49.094
I haven't attended
the latest Brat Pack meeting.
478
00:17:49.094 --> 00:17:50.931
So, I mean, I don't know.
You know?
479
00:17:50.931 --> 00:17:52.142
You guys don't get together
all the time
480
00:17:52.142 --> 00:17:53.687
and make fudge and--
- Make fudge?
481
00:17:53.687 --> 00:17:54.856
Sleepover.
482
00:17:54.856 --> 00:17:56.735
Well, we make cookies
and stuff, yeah.
483
00:17:56.735 --> 00:17:58.112
And do you think there will
ever be a big reunion where
484
00:17:58.112 --> 00:17:59.658
they get-- you guys are all
in your 80s or something,
485
00:17:59.658 --> 00:18:01.243
and they get you guys together,
and you--
486
00:18:01.243 --> 00:18:02.663
It could happen.
You never know.
487
00:18:02.663 --> 00:18:03.957
[laughter]
488
00:18:03.957 --> 00:18:05.377
Well, we'll wait.
489
00:18:05.377 --> 00:18:06.838
We'll look forward to that
60 years from now.
490
00:18:06.838 --> 00:18:08.257
That's gonna be good.
491
00:18:08.257 --> 00:18:09.928
ANDREW:
I find it important somehow
492
00:18:09.928 --> 00:18:13.101
to go and try and connect
with people in the now
493
00:18:13.101 --> 00:18:14.979
seems of value,
and I'm not sure why.
494
00:18:14.979 --> 00:18:16.525
Hmm.
495
00:18:16.525 --> 00:18:19.781
If you could have
the Brat Pack name not exist,
496
00:18:19.781 --> 00:18:23.371
would you?
- Hmm.
497
00:18:26.043 --> 00:18:29.133
That's a different--
I think a difficult question
498
00:18:29.133 --> 00:18:31.805
to answer because it's--
499
00:18:31.805 --> 00:18:34.561
you can only know the known.
500
00:18:34.561 --> 00:18:39.403
And was it something
that we benefited from?
501
00:18:39.403 --> 00:18:40.990
Maybe.
502
00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:44.747
But in the long run,
I think we did not.
503
00:18:44.747 --> 00:18:46.500
I think there was--
504
00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:51.260
I think there was more damage
done by it than good.
505
00:18:51.260 --> 00:18:53.222
I perceived it to be
very harmful career-wise.
506
00:18:53.222 --> 00:18:54.308
Because I didn't think--
507
00:18:54.308 --> 00:18:55.644
Martin Scorsese,
Steven Spielberg
508
00:18:55.644 --> 00:18:56.730
is not gonna call up somebody
509
00:18:56.730 --> 00:18:58.441
who is in the Brat Pack,
you know?
510
00:18:58.441 --> 00:18:59.778
[laughs]
- You're not wrong.
511
00:18:59.778 --> 00:19:01.615
No, you're not wrong.
512
00:19:01.615 --> 00:19:05.246
And it-- I think
it created a perception
513
00:19:05.246 --> 00:19:06.666
that we were lightweights,
514
00:19:06.666 --> 00:19:08.252
that we didn't
take it seriously.
515
00:19:08.252 --> 00:19:09.338
Well, that's what
that article was about.
516
00:19:09.338 --> 00:19:10.591
Yeah.
517
00:19:10.591 --> 00:19:11.968
And what's--
it's just a name. Who cares?
518
00:19:11.968 --> 00:19:13.471
It's just-- what's it matter?
519
00:19:13.471 --> 00:19:14.891
But it did matter,
520
00:19:14.891 --> 00:19:17.772
and it did affect how
I was perceived in the business
521
00:19:17.772 --> 00:19:20.068
certainly, how I was perceived
in the world when people would
522
00:19:20.068 --> 00:19:21.530
stop me on the street,
and how I perceived
523
00:19:21.530 --> 00:19:23.617
myself for many years.
- Oh, yeah.
524
00:19:23.617 --> 00:19:27.875
ANDREW: And to reposition that
or rewrite that history
525
00:19:27.875 --> 00:19:30.839
in some way to turn it
into an asset as opposed
526
00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:33.720
to something that's just
still dragging around, to me,
527
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.308
is a-- you know,
before my dad died,
528
00:19:36.308 --> 00:19:37.477
I went to him.
529
00:19:37.477 --> 00:19:39.106
We did not get along
for my adult life.
530
00:19:39.106 --> 00:19:40.609
Right.
531
00:19:40.609 --> 00:19:42.404
ANDREW: And I went to him
as he was dying.
532
00:19:42.404 --> 00:19:43.949
And I can't say
we cleaned up our past,
533
00:19:43.949 --> 00:19:45.536
but we just put it down,
534
00:19:45.536 --> 00:19:49.126
and there was something
that was so meaningful to me
535
00:19:49.126 --> 00:19:50.420
about just--
536
00:19:50.420 --> 00:19:51.506
I'm here with you,
you're dying.
537
00:19:51.506 --> 00:19:53.259
He's my dad, and I loved him.
538
00:19:53.259 --> 00:19:55.890
So to get back to that
was a beautiful thing,
539
00:19:55.890 --> 00:19:57.685
and I'm not saying
this is on that scale at all,
540
00:19:57.685 --> 00:19:59.564
but it still-- it is something.
541
00:19:59.564 --> 00:20:02.737
It doesn't have any power
anymore except what we give it.
542
00:20:02.737 --> 00:20:04.574
What we give it, yeah.
ANDREW: You know?
543
00:20:04.574 --> 00:20:06.911
Yeah. Yeah,
like any of our demons, right?
544
00:20:06.911 --> 00:20:08.414
ANDREW: Like anything, right?
545
00:20:08.414 --> 00:20:10.251
And so-- and why
should that be a demon?
546
00:20:10.251 --> 00:20:12.339
And I know anything else
about emotional things,
547
00:20:12.339 --> 00:20:14.051
the more we just sort of
push them aside,
548
00:20:14.051 --> 00:20:15.554
they're not going any--
they're still there.
549
00:20:15.554 --> 00:20:17.140
They're still-- you're
still gonna react to them.
550
00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:19.102
I don't want to be
reacting to it anymore.
551
00:20:19.102 --> 00:20:21.023
You know what I mean?
- Right.
552
00:20:21.023 --> 00:20:23.235
And so to see you,
for me, is a beautiful thing.
553
00:20:23.235 --> 00:20:24.864
I just want to go, "Ah."
You know?
554
00:20:24.864 --> 00:20:28.538
I always thought
we'd be friends forever.
555
00:20:28.538 --> 00:20:33.047
Yeah, well, forever got a lot
shorter suddenly, didn't it?
556
00:20:37.472 --> 00:20:40.646
[bright orchestral music]
557
00:20:40.646 --> 00:20:46.783
♪ ♪
558
00:20:46.783 --> 00:20:48.202
ANDREW: Will you look
through that camera
559
00:20:48.202 --> 00:20:49.246
and see if my head's
chopped off
560
00:20:49.246 --> 00:20:50.666
between those two lines?
561
00:20:50.666 --> 00:20:52.460
ALLY: It's a little--
the white line is going right
562
00:20:52.460 --> 00:20:54.214
across the top of your hair.
- OK, all right.
563
00:20:54.214 --> 00:20:55.759
I got it.
Have a seat back down.
564
00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:57.596
ALLY: You need to just--
it's, like, a smidgen.
565
00:20:57.596 --> 00:20:59.099
ANDREW: I got it.
ALLY: What is that?
566
00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:00.476
Oh, that's a two shot?
What is that?
567
00:21:00.476 --> 00:21:01.938
ANDREW: That's my iPhone.
- I know.
568
00:21:01.938 --> 00:21:04.736
But what are you filming on it?
- You and your couch.
569
00:21:04.736 --> 00:21:06.363
- Oh, it's another angle.
- It's another angle.
570
00:21:06.363 --> 00:21:09.411
Oh, OK.
ANDREW: I have a memory.
571
00:21:09.411 --> 00:21:11.833
You drove me home
from I don't know where.
572
00:21:11.833 --> 00:21:14.296
I seem to think it was
a rehearsal of the movie
573
00:21:14.296 --> 00:21:15.758
when we were doing
St. Elmo's Fire,
574
00:21:15.758 --> 00:21:17.553
when we rehearsed for those
few days on that soundstage.
575
00:21:17.553 --> 00:21:20.684
But you were just driving me
home to my hotel,
576
00:21:20.684 --> 00:21:22.980
and I was staying at, like,
the Sunset Marquis, I think.
577
00:21:22.980 --> 00:21:24.399
ALLY: Yes, yes.
578
00:21:24.399 --> 00:21:26.529
And it's one of the happiest
memories of my life.
579
00:21:26.529 --> 00:21:28.533
- Really?
- There was something about it.
580
00:21:28.533 --> 00:21:31.079
We were-- there was no reason.
Nothing happened.
581
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.502
We were just being friendly,
and laughing, and just driving,
582
00:21:33.502 --> 00:21:35.881
and you were driving me home.
583
00:21:35.881 --> 00:21:38.010
And-- but there was something
about being young
584
00:21:38.010 --> 00:21:40.933
and life was just happening.
ALLY: Yeah.
585
00:21:40.933 --> 00:21:42.227
It was thrilling.
586
00:21:42.227 --> 00:21:44.147
And the top was down
on your Jeep.
587
00:21:44.147 --> 00:21:46.861
And it was like a scene out
of St. Elmo's Fire, frankly.
588
00:21:46.861 --> 00:21:48.824
And it was just so--
589
00:21:48.824 --> 00:21:50.243
all these years,
it's stayed with me.
590
00:21:50.243 --> 00:21:53.290
It's this wondrous experience
of youth and the moment.
591
00:21:53.290 --> 00:21:56.631
And I was aware in the moment
of how happy I was,
592
00:21:56.631 --> 00:21:58.510
and that hasn't always been
my experience with life.
593
00:21:58.510 --> 00:22:00.179
Yeah, that was when
I had that thought,
594
00:22:00.179 --> 00:22:01.599
wow, I really actually--
595
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:03.310
I finally belong somewhere,
596
00:22:03.310 --> 00:22:05.189
and I have friends.
597
00:22:05.189 --> 00:22:08.738
What do you think about our
relationship as an outsider?
598
00:22:08.738 --> 00:22:11.578
I want you to be honest.
Really.
599
00:22:11.578 --> 00:22:13.665
KEVIN:
You want me to be honest?
600
00:22:13.665 --> 00:22:15.544
I think I hang around
you guys so much
601
00:22:15.544 --> 00:22:19.802
personally because, well,
602
00:22:19.802 --> 00:22:22.766
you're all I think about.
603
00:22:24.352 --> 00:22:25.981
Me?
604
00:22:25.981 --> 00:22:31.116
And I am desperately,
completely in love with you.
605
00:22:31.116 --> 00:22:33.078
[laughs]
606
00:22:33.078 --> 00:22:35.207
[soft dramatic music]
607
00:22:35.207 --> 00:22:37.462
Ooh.
608
00:22:37.462 --> 00:22:39.675
I had a crush on you
back in the day.
609
00:22:39.675 --> 00:22:42.973
You did not, Andrew.
No, you did not. No.
610
00:22:42.973 --> 00:22:44.977
I was so scared that
I was busy being so aloof.
611
00:22:44.977 --> 00:22:46.396
- Yes, you were aloof.
- Yeah.
612
00:22:46.396 --> 00:22:47.942
You were aloof.
613
00:22:47.942 --> 00:22:49.528
ANDREW: You said something
to me on the phone,
614
00:22:49.528 --> 00:22:52.242
that The Breakfast Club was
a gift that keeps on giving.
615
00:22:52.242 --> 00:22:53.870
Can you talk about that?
616
00:22:53.870 --> 00:22:55.414
The Breakfast Club is
the gift that keeps on giving.
617
00:22:55.414 --> 00:22:57.795
ANDREW: What does that mean?
- It's just--
618
00:22:57.795 --> 00:23:02.387
I was really, really happy
that entire experience.
619
00:23:02.387 --> 00:23:04.057
I can write with my toes.
620
00:23:05.059 --> 00:23:08.525
I can also eat,
brush my teeth--
621
00:23:08.525 --> 00:23:10.529
With your feet?
622
00:23:10.529 --> 00:23:12.574
There's a lot of me
in Allison.
623
00:23:12.574 --> 00:23:14.578
The feelings,
and the fears and things
624
00:23:14.578 --> 00:23:17.000
that she's going through, I--
625
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.258
I know that they were coming
right straight from me.
626
00:23:21.258 --> 00:23:24.472
So in high school,
I did not have
627
00:23:24.472 --> 00:23:27.938
many close friends.
I didn't fit in.
628
00:23:27.938 --> 00:23:29.567
I was really lonely.
629
00:23:29.567 --> 00:23:31.278
I couldn't wait
to get out of New York,
630
00:23:31.278 --> 00:23:33.783
and just go to California,
and get my acting career
631
00:23:33.783 --> 00:23:35.244
happening.
That was the plan.
632
00:23:35.244 --> 00:23:38.000
So when Allison came along
in The Breakfast Club,
633
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.922
I felt like, ah, that's it.
634
00:23:40.922 --> 00:23:43.511
This-- and I wanted to--
and John Hughes
635
00:23:43.511 --> 00:23:44.889
was great about this.
636
00:23:44.889 --> 00:23:46.768
I wanted her to look
on the outside the way
637
00:23:46.768 --> 00:23:49.355
I always felt on the inside
during high school.
638
00:23:49.355 --> 00:23:50.901
So he let me do that.
639
00:23:50.901 --> 00:23:52.195
Go away.
640
00:23:53.615 --> 00:23:56.161
- Where do you want me to go?
- Go away.
641
00:23:59.375 --> 00:24:04.010
It still astonishes me
how many people
642
00:24:04.010 --> 00:24:06.431
found themselves in that film,
643
00:24:06.431 --> 00:24:09.270
are moved by that film,
enjoyed the film,
644
00:24:09.270 --> 00:24:10.774
remember that film fondly.
645
00:24:10.774 --> 00:24:12.861
And yes, it is really tied up
646
00:24:12.861 --> 00:24:17.328
in their
high school experience.
647
00:24:17.328 --> 00:24:19.207
It's become a rite
of passage for teenagers
648
00:24:19.207 --> 00:24:21.461
to see these movies.
It's become an adolescent rite.
649
00:24:21.461 --> 00:24:23.048
You read Catcher in the Rye.
650
00:24:23.048 --> 00:24:24.092
You watch The Breakfast Club.
ALLY: Right.
651
00:24:24.092 --> 00:24:25.302
You know what I mean?
652
00:24:25.302 --> 00:24:26.931
And that's just
kind of amazing.
653
00:24:26.931 --> 00:24:28.350
I mean, that was before--
right before,
654
00:24:28.350 --> 00:24:30.605
I think, the article came out.
655
00:24:30.605 --> 00:24:32.191
And then, of course,
the article just changes...
656
00:24:32.191 --> 00:24:33.570
ALLY: Right.
657
00:24:33.570 --> 00:24:35.030
Everything.
ALLY: Right.
658
00:24:35.030 --> 00:24:36.491
Yeah.
659
00:24:36.491 --> 00:24:38.287
And then all that stopped
in a sense, in a very real way.
660
00:24:38.287 --> 00:24:40.207
Right?
- Yeah. It all stopped.
661
00:24:40.207 --> 00:24:42.378
And it-- we kept working.
662
00:24:42.378 --> 00:24:43.463
Everybody kept working,
663
00:24:43.463 --> 00:24:45.719
but there was this feeling of--
664
00:24:45.719 --> 00:24:49.643
it was just sort of like
being shell-shocked.
665
00:24:49.643 --> 00:24:51.271
These young people were
all doing the same thing
666
00:24:51.271 --> 00:24:52.691
at the same time,
and it's thrilling,
667
00:24:52.691 --> 00:24:54.612
and it's exciting,
and wow.
668
00:24:54.612 --> 00:24:56.114
And then--
669
00:24:56.114 --> 00:24:59.204
What do we do now, you know?
Now what?
670
00:24:59.204 --> 00:25:02.878
I started feeling the kind of
weird vibe in the room
671
00:25:02.878 --> 00:25:06.802
if I went in to meet somebody
or audition for something--
672
00:25:06.802 --> 00:25:08.347
just a weirdness.
673
00:25:08.347 --> 00:25:10.602
Oh, yeah.
I felt that.
674
00:25:10.602 --> 00:25:12.856
We worry that
you're gonna be spoiled.
675
00:25:12.856 --> 00:25:15.402
We worry that you're
getting too much too soon.
676
00:25:15.402 --> 00:25:18.743
And now, you know,
the circle turned around.
677
00:25:18.743 --> 00:25:21.999
And now, everybody has to--
678
00:25:21.999 --> 00:25:24.838
I don't know-- pay the price,
pay the piper or something.
679
00:25:24.838 --> 00:25:27.134
You know?
- I do.
680
00:25:27.134 --> 00:25:29.013
I very much felt like that.
681
00:25:29.013 --> 00:25:30.809
And I felt there was a certain
glee in that the wheel turned,
682
00:25:30.809 --> 00:25:33.063
and you're now under.
- OK, glee.
683
00:25:33.063 --> 00:25:34.232
There was a glee feeling.
Yeah.
684
00:25:34.232 --> 00:25:35.568
There was--
685
00:25:35.568 --> 00:25:36.862
I mean, that's not
the word I would have used,
686
00:25:36.862 --> 00:25:38.658
but that that strikes me--
yeah, schadenfreude.
687
00:25:38.658 --> 00:25:40.494
Schadenfreude.
688
00:25:40.494 --> 00:25:43.125
Yeah, I'd say that too.
- It was trite--
689
00:25:43.125 --> 00:25:45.755
something very trite
about the Brat Pack.
690
00:25:45.755 --> 00:25:47.049
It felt like
it was just like,
691
00:25:47.049 --> 00:25:49.178
let's just write off
everybody's lives
692
00:25:49.178 --> 00:25:52.018
and their experiences
and their work.
693
00:25:52.018 --> 00:25:53.730
Let's just-- you know,
it's just getting
694
00:25:53.730 --> 00:25:55.065
all sort of written off.
695
00:25:55.065 --> 00:25:57.696
It felt 100% like that.
696
00:25:57.696 --> 00:25:59.867
I, in 35 years,
697
00:25:59.867 --> 00:26:01.286
have never talked
to anybody about it.
698
00:26:01.286 --> 00:26:04.543
So to hear you articulate
exactly what my experience was,
699
00:26:04.543 --> 00:26:06.672
exactly what I know
Emilio was experiencing,
700
00:26:06.672 --> 00:26:09.636
you know--
exactly the same.
701
00:26:09.636 --> 00:26:11.348
And so to like--
ALLY: Yeah.
702
00:26:11.348 --> 00:26:14.980
Yeah.
ALLY: Yeah.
703
00:26:17.151 --> 00:26:20.992
When you grow up,
your heart dies.
704
00:26:20.992 --> 00:26:22.370
Who cares?
705
00:26:24.040 --> 00:26:25.960
I care.
706
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.549
When that article came out,
I recall being
707
00:26:28.549 --> 00:26:30.010
really taken aback by it.
708
00:26:30.010 --> 00:26:31.972
Because there had been
so much excitement
709
00:26:31.972 --> 00:26:35.563
about all of the young actors
that were showing up.
710
00:26:35.563 --> 00:26:37.483
Because there was
this startling group of
711
00:26:37.483 --> 00:26:39.153
really talented young people,
712
00:26:39.153 --> 00:26:40.782
and that was the first time
that it felt like
713
00:26:40.782 --> 00:26:42.911
that had curdled,
that people were going,
714
00:26:42.911 --> 00:26:45.332
"You know what? They need
to be knocked down a peg."
715
00:26:45.332 --> 00:26:48.088
And I also felt a little weird
because there was
716
00:26:48.088 --> 00:26:52.179
some sort of effort because
Pretty in Pink came out to--
717
00:26:52.179 --> 00:26:53.850
it was like,
you have to decide.
718
00:26:53.850 --> 00:26:55.269
Are you part of that or not?
719
00:26:55.269 --> 00:26:57.649
Blane?
His name is Blane?
720
00:26:57.649 --> 00:27:01.114
Oh, that's a major appliance.
That's not a name.
721
00:27:01.114 --> 00:27:02.576
Just because
I'm going out with Blane
722
00:27:02.576 --> 00:27:04.705
doesn't mean I can't
be friends with you.
723
00:27:04.705 --> 00:27:06.499
Writers are addicted
to narrative.
724
00:27:06.499 --> 00:27:09.882
Brat Pack allowed a new
narrative to take shape.
725
00:27:09.882 --> 00:27:11.594
You know, these kids have
the world on a string
726
00:27:11.594 --> 00:27:14.015
because they've got this
enormous amount of talent
727
00:27:14.015 --> 00:27:15.894
at a time when the industry
is really ready
728
00:27:15.894 --> 00:27:17.438
to tell great stories
about teenagers,
729
00:27:17.438 --> 00:27:19.484
and let's fuck
with that a little.
730
00:27:19.484 --> 00:27:21.404
It felt like water
had been thrown on all of you,
731
00:27:21.404 --> 00:27:24.410
and you had to walk into a room
more apologetically
732
00:27:24.410 --> 00:27:28.043
for having been part
of that dynamic.
733
00:27:28.043 --> 00:27:29.420
You guys were it.
734
00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:31.634
You would have walked in
with a different swagger
735
00:27:31.634 --> 00:27:33.220
before that article.
736
00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:37.687
And then they were free
to have their kind of judgment.
737
00:27:37.687 --> 00:27:40.317
The resentment could then morph
into, see, we knew.
738
00:27:40.317 --> 00:27:41.737
We know what you guys are.
739
00:27:41.737 --> 00:27:42.906
Which you guys
weren't at all.
740
00:27:42.906 --> 00:27:46.287
You were young,
vulnerable, excited,
741
00:27:46.287 --> 00:27:50.713
proud-of-your-work actors
who literally got the rug
742
00:27:50.713 --> 00:27:52.132
taken out from underneath them.
743
00:27:52.132 --> 00:27:53.636
It was condescending.
744
00:27:53.636 --> 00:27:55.723
And I don't think
anybody had thought
745
00:27:55.723 --> 00:27:58.854
of all you wonderful actors
in that way
746
00:27:58.854 --> 00:28:01.025
until he coined that phrase.
747
00:28:01.025 --> 00:28:03.864
And I could see you
walking around with a lot of--
748
00:28:03.864 --> 00:28:05.994
not specifically you,
but I can see a person
749
00:28:05.994 --> 00:28:08.541
walking around with a lot
of resentment from that.
750
00:28:08.541 --> 00:28:15.012
I was, you know, mad for you
about that reductive wording.
751
00:28:15.012 --> 00:28:17.350
I thought it was rude.
I was very protective.
752
00:28:19.396 --> 00:28:23.069
[bright orchestral music]
753
00:28:23.069 --> 00:28:27.621
All right,
we are Upstate New York here,
754
00:28:27.621 --> 00:28:30.918
far from the madding crowd.
[laughs]
755
00:28:30.918 --> 00:28:33.883
And we're hunting down
Malcolm Gladwell,
756
00:28:33.883 --> 00:28:36.680
who I am hoping can give me
757
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:42.232
some insight into
how the Brat Pack label
758
00:28:42.232 --> 00:28:44.780
caught fire like it did,
and caught the zeitgeist,
759
00:28:44.780 --> 00:28:46.282
and took hold.
760
00:28:46.282 --> 00:28:49.288
I mean, this is right up
his area of expertise,
761
00:28:49.288 --> 00:28:51.543
this kind of social science,
762
00:28:51.543 --> 00:28:56.219
and I'm hoping he can
illuminate this for me.
763
00:28:57.555 --> 00:28:59.851
MALCOLM: But the Brat Pack
is signifying
764
00:28:59.851 --> 00:29:03.943
that a generational transition
is happening in Hollywood,
765
00:29:03.943 --> 00:29:05.530
and we're gonna call it this.
766
00:29:05.530 --> 00:29:09.746
The explicit reference to the--
the pun on the Rat Pack
767
00:29:09.746 --> 00:29:11.625
is obviously huge.
768
00:29:11.625 --> 00:29:12.919
So it's no longer a term.
769
00:29:12.919 --> 00:29:14.463
It's a metaphor, right?
770
00:29:14.463 --> 00:29:18.012
Whenever a term makes that
journey to metaphor status,
771
00:29:18.012 --> 00:29:19.766
it has a chance
to kind of endure.
772
00:29:19.766 --> 00:29:23.022
And, you know, it's also funny.
773
00:29:23.022 --> 00:29:25.611
The Rat Pack and the
Brat Pack in sensibility
774
00:29:25.611 --> 00:29:27.281
are polar opposites, right?
775
00:29:27.281 --> 00:29:31.205
One is anxious,
and immature, and trying
776
00:29:31.205 --> 00:29:32.458
really, really, really hard
to figure out
777
00:29:32.458 --> 00:29:33.794
their place in the world,
778
00:29:33.794 --> 00:29:35.213
and the other group
doesn't give a fuck,
779
00:29:35.213 --> 00:29:37.134
But that's sort of part
of why it's funny, right?
780
00:29:37.134 --> 00:29:38.596
It's--
- We didn't find it funny.
781
00:29:38.596 --> 00:29:40.265
No, I can imagine.
It was funny for--
782
00:29:40.265 --> 00:29:41.434
not funny.
783
00:29:41.434 --> 00:29:43.229
Not "ha ha" funny,
but funny in the way
784
00:29:43.229 --> 00:29:45.192
that sticks in your mind.
785
00:29:45.192 --> 00:29:47.781
Phrases endure when
they have a kind of cleverness,
786
00:29:47.781 --> 00:29:49.659
like it's quoting
"Rat Pack," and when
787
00:29:49.659 --> 00:29:53.082
they have some truth to them.
This has truth.
788
00:29:53.082 --> 00:29:55.003
It is.
If it was just--
789
00:29:55.003 --> 00:29:56.799
if you were doing it about,
like,
790
00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:00.598
three rando actors today
who were in some indie movie,
791
00:30:00.598 --> 00:30:02.351
it wouldn't work
because it's not true
792
00:30:02.351 --> 00:30:04.104
that there's
a generational transition
793
00:30:04.104 --> 00:30:06.150
going on in Hollywood,
but there was then, right?
794
00:30:06.150 --> 00:30:07.987
There was a big
transition happening.
795
00:30:07.987 --> 00:30:09.490
ANDREW: Yeah.
796
00:30:09.490 --> 00:30:11.578
I mean, it is when
youth movies took over.
797
00:30:11.578 --> 00:30:14.668
At the time,
I was tremendously invested
798
00:30:14.668 --> 00:30:17.339
in the pop culture
that was aimed at me.
799
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:18.551
ANDREW:
That's how we communicate,
800
00:30:18.551 --> 00:30:19.761
and how we identify,
and how people talk
801
00:30:19.761 --> 00:30:21.723
to each other
when we're in our 20s
802
00:30:21.723 --> 00:30:23.309
is through that, really.
803
00:30:23.309 --> 00:30:25.146
It's the easiest, quickest
shorthand to communication,
804
00:30:25.146 --> 00:30:26.357
isn't it?
- Yeah.
805
00:30:26.357 --> 00:30:27.819
Oh, did you see that, dude?
You know.
806
00:30:27.819 --> 00:30:30.867
Well, and possible then
in a way it's not possible now.
807
00:30:30.867 --> 00:30:32.704
So nothing like that
can happen anymore.
808
00:30:32.704 --> 00:30:34.498
You can't have a cultural
touchstone that everyone
809
00:30:34.498 --> 00:30:36.002
in their 20s can refer to.
810
00:30:36.002 --> 00:30:39.759
If you gathered
100 17-year-olds at random
811
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:43.559
in America in 1986,
90 would have seen
812
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.272
or at least be conversant
about Pretty in Pink.
813
00:30:46.272 --> 00:30:47.734
No question.
814
00:30:47.734 --> 00:30:49.069
They wouldn't even have had
to see it to be able
815
00:30:49.069 --> 00:30:50.322
to hold a conversation
about it.
816
00:30:50.322 --> 00:30:51.575
Right.
817
00:30:51.575 --> 00:30:54.496
There is absolutely
no cultural phenomenon
818
00:30:54.496 --> 00:30:56.710
at the present time
of which that can be said--
819
00:30:56.710 --> 00:30:58.881
impossible.
- Why?
820
00:30:58.881 --> 00:31:00.843
Well, because things
have been fractured.
821
00:31:00.843 --> 00:31:04.350
We've gone from a relatively
unified youth culture
822
00:31:04.350 --> 00:31:08.024
to a youth culture that
looks like every other aspect
823
00:31:08.024 --> 00:31:10.738
of American society,
which is everything's
824
00:31:10.738 --> 00:31:14.078
all over the place.
There's no common denominator.
825
00:31:14.078 --> 00:31:17.417
I was 13 the first time
I saw Breakfast Club on VHS,
826
00:31:17.417 --> 00:31:18.712
and I remember watching it.
827
00:31:18.712 --> 00:31:20.633
It was this--
around eighth grade--
828
00:31:20.633 --> 00:31:22.177
and thinking
I had never seen anything
829
00:31:22.177 --> 00:31:24.891
that was so like my life.
830
00:31:24.891 --> 00:31:27.772
You know, movies were
about grown-up things,
831
00:31:27.772 --> 00:31:29.274
either serious
grown-up things
832
00:31:29.274 --> 00:31:30.820
or silly, funny
grown-up things.
833
00:31:30.820 --> 00:31:32.824
I couldn't believe that
here was The Breakfast Club.
834
00:31:32.824 --> 00:31:35.161
Here was a movie
about the exact things
835
00:31:35.161 --> 00:31:37.834
that I was concerned with
at that moment in my life.
836
00:31:37.834 --> 00:31:40.923
This was pre-Facebook,
pre having a sense
837
00:31:40.923 --> 00:31:42.552
of kind of what
everyone around the country
838
00:31:42.552 --> 00:31:45.265
was feeling until
I literally got to college
839
00:31:45.265 --> 00:31:47.729
and met kids my age from
all over the place
840
00:31:47.729 --> 00:31:50.651
who knew and loved
all of these movies.
841
00:31:50.651 --> 00:31:52.739
IRA:
That was before social media.
842
00:31:52.739 --> 00:31:56.162
If you were a teenager
living anywhere in the world,
843
00:31:56.162 --> 00:31:57.874
and you're watching
The Breakfast Club,
844
00:31:57.874 --> 00:32:02.382
you're watching Pretty in Pink,
you are imagining a world
845
00:32:02.382 --> 00:32:04.011
that you're not a part of.
846
00:32:04.011 --> 00:32:07.643
For a teenager now,
they can see that world
847
00:32:07.643 --> 00:32:09.188
by opening up their phone.
848
00:32:09.188 --> 00:32:12.737
This was this moment where
it seemed so surprising
849
00:32:12.737 --> 00:32:14.908
to have a movie
like The Breakfast Club,
850
00:32:14.908 --> 00:32:17.622
which is really just
basically a therapy jam
851
00:32:17.622 --> 00:32:19.166
for about
an hour and a half,
852
00:32:19.166 --> 00:32:20.669
if you really want
to break it down.
853
00:32:20.669 --> 00:32:22.507
It was just so powerful.
854
00:32:22.507 --> 00:32:25.220
I mean,
we're all pretty bizarre.
855
00:32:25.220 --> 00:32:26.640
Some of us are just better
at hiding it.
856
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.017
That's all.
857
00:32:28.017 --> 00:32:30.188
BRET: I think ensembles
had something to do with it.
858
00:32:30.188 --> 00:32:35.156
A group study is always
very enticing to audiences.
859
00:32:35.156 --> 00:32:37.160
And a group study
of these people
860
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.373
in this particular moment
in 1985
861
00:32:39.373 --> 00:32:41.335
was kind of like catnip.
862
00:32:41.335 --> 00:32:43.966
These are considered
the golden age
863
00:32:43.966 --> 00:32:46.053
of youth cinema, these movies.
864
00:32:46.053 --> 00:32:48.976
I mean, The Breakfast Club is
in the Criterion Collection.
865
00:32:48.976 --> 00:32:50.311
BRET: I remember seeing it
the first weekend
866
00:32:50.311 --> 00:32:52.692
it came out, really not
knowing what to expect,
867
00:32:52.692 --> 00:32:54.111
and I was very affected by it.
868
00:32:54.111 --> 00:32:55.446
I was very affected
by how seriously
869
00:32:55.446 --> 00:32:56.825
they took these kids.
870
00:32:56.825 --> 00:32:59.288
I was very moved
by their ultimate plights.
871
00:32:59.288 --> 00:33:03.797
Growing up in the '80s,
it felt very aspirational.
872
00:33:03.797 --> 00:33:06.218
And yet,
most of those movies also
873
00:33:06.218 --> 00:33:09.851
felt very realistic
in that they took
874
00:33:09.851 --> 00:33:12.899
young people's
lives seriously.
875
00:33:12.899 --> 00:33:16.113
SUSANNAH: We used these films
as kind of a prism
876
00:33:16.113 --> 00:33:18.451
through which
to look at our lives.
877
00:33:18.451 --> 00:33:21.583
We would talk about
people in our lives
878
00:33:21.583 --> 00:33:23.085
in terms of the characters
from the movies.
879
00:33:23.085 --> 00:33:24.547
You know, he's such a Blane,
he's such a Duckie,
880
00:33:24.547 --> 00:33:26.509
he's such a Bender,
whatever it was.
881
00:33:26.509 --> 00:33:27.845
Still to this day,
people would come up to me
882
00:33:27.845 --> 00:33:29.974
and go, "I was team Duckie."
- I was team Duckie.
883
00:33:29.974 --> 00:33:31.895
- You were, really?
- Of course.
884
00:33:31.895 --> 00:33:33.565
What do you mean "of course"?
885
00:33:33.565 --> 00:33:36.738
My idealized sense
of what my role was
886
00:33:36.738 --> 00:33:38.700
in my high school was Duckie.
887
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:39.911
I wasn't actually that,
but that's
888
00:33:39.911 --> 00:33:41.748
what I would have liked to be.
889
00:33:41.748 --> 00:33:45.171
And I'm gonna use that
to build my own identity.
890
00:33:45.171 --> 00:33:47.969
So when I'm watching
the Duck Man,
891
00:33:47.969 --> 00:33:51.016
there are things in him
that I would like to acquire.
892
00:33:51.016 --> 00:33:53.437
So when you look back
20 years later,
893
00:33:53.437 --> 00:33:55.275
you do see yourself
in the movie.
894
00:33:55.275 --> 00:33:56.653
Yeah.
895
00:33:56.653 --> 00:33:58.114
But you've forgotten
that you acquired--
896
00:33:58.114 --> 00:34:00.619
- You took it from there.
- You took it from the movie.
897
00:34:00.619 --> 00:34:02.540
IRA: I connected
to Molly Ringwald a lot.
898
00:34:02.540 --> 00:34:05.086
I connected to characters
like her's that sort of felt
899
00:34:05.086 --> 00:34:08.635
like they weren't being
listened to by adults,
900
00:34:08.635 --> 00:34:11.766
didn't feel like they fit in.
901
00:34:11.766 --> 00:34:15.691
INTERVIEWER: Have you ever had
any of those insecure feelings?
902
00:34:15.691 --> 00:34:17.737
All the time.
All the time.
903
00:34:17.737 --> 00:34:20.534
I'm always doubting myself,
which is OK.
904
00:34:20.534 --> 00:34:21.953
I mean, I have a certain amount
of confidence,
905
00:34:21.953 --> 00:34:24.041
but I also have--
it kind of balances out
906
00:34:24.041 --> 00:34:25.711
with all my insecurities.
907
00:34:25.711 --> 00:34:28.424
There was this feeling that
there were these young people
908
00:34:28.424 --> 00:34:33.142
who were in different kinds
of movies exploring
909
00:34:33.142 --> 00:34:34.604
what it means to be young.
910
00:34:34.604 --> 00:34:39.029
And it's just so powerful
to see my own feelings,
911
00:34:39.029 --> 00:34:42.578
my inchoate feelings about
what it means to be young
912
00:34:42.578 --> 00:34:44.665
and a teenager
and having my own troubles
913
00:34:44.665 --> 00:34:47.128
and seeing it reflected
in the screen.
914
00:34:47.128 --> 00:34:48.757
That was extremely powerful.
915
00:34:48.757 --> 00:34:51.178
When these movies came out,
the parents were
916
00:34:51.178 --> 00:34:53.809
really pushed to the back.
917
00:34:53.809 --> 00:34:56.564
We were seeing friendship
being treated in the same
918
00:34:56.564 --> 00:35:00.488
kind of heady, exciting,
sweeping, cinematic way
919
00:35:00.488 --> 00:35:04.705
that normally had just been
reserved for romantic love.
920
00:35:04.705 --> 00:35:06.835
Everybody,
but especially young people,
921
00:35:06.835 --> 00:35:08.421
so want to connect
922
00:35:08.421 --> 00:35:11.427
and so want that group
of close, tight-knit friends.
923
00:35:11.427 --> 00:35:14.934
And to see on screen something
that represents that dream,
924
00:35:14.934 --> 00:35:17.313
it's such a powerful feeling.
925
00:35:17.313 --> 00:35:19.234
This was when malls
were becoming huge.
926
00:35:19.234 --> 00:35:22.825
Malls are a very natural place
for teenagers to go.
927
00:35:22.825 --> 00:35:23.994
And they'd see movies
with their friends
928
00:35:23.994 --> 00:35:26.081
over, and over,
and over again.
929
00:35:26.081 --> 00:35:28.670
BRET: The effort that we put
getting a ticket for a show
930
00:35:28.670 --> 00:35:30.131
that starts two hours later,
and you got to get
931
00:35:30.131 --> 00:35:32.260
into the line because
there's no advanced seating.
932
00:35:32.260 --> 00:35:34.014
You were investing
in something.
933
00:35:34.014 --> 00:35:36.101
It wasn't just
flipping on Spotify
934
00:35:36.101 --> 00:35:39.357
or watching a movie
over four nights on Netflix.
935
00:35:39.357 --> 00:35:41.696
That moment--
as a young person,
936
00:35:41.696 --> 00:35:44.201
you're like this sponge
taking in everything
937
00:35:44.201 --> 00:35:45.746
and reacting to everything.
938
00:35:45.746 --> 00:35:48.627
And you're so much
more interested
939
00:35:48.627 --> 00:35:51.841
and invested in a way
that you're not at 42.
940
00:35:51.841 --> 00:35:54.639
LEA: I think we were in a very
unique period in history.
941
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:56.266
And I boil it down to this.
942
00:35:56.266 --> 00:35:58.813
It was the first time
you could hold a movie,
943
00:35:58.813 --> 00:36:00.901
and you could buy it,
944
00:36:00.901 --> 00:36:02.696
and you could put it
in your thing
945
00:36:02.696 --> 00:36:04.575
and play it
over and over again,
946
00:36:04.575 --> 00:36:08.374
and it was
a very small part of time.
947
00:36:08.374 --> 00:36:12.550
Our first television set.
Dad just picked it up today.
948
00:36:12.550 --> 00:36:14.720
Do you have a television?
949
00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:17.852
Well, yeah.
You know, we have two of them.
950
00:36:17.852 --> 00:36:20.607
Wow.
You must be rich.
951
00:36:20.607 --> 00:36:22.318
Oh, honey, he's teasing you.
952
00:36:22.318 --> 00:36:24.782
Nobody has two television sets.
953
00:36:24.782 --> 00:36:26.118
[laughs]
954
00:36:26.118 --> 00:36:27.538
ANDREW: Yeah, we were
the first generation
955
00:36:27.538 --> 00:36:28.873
where that was happening.
- Yeah.
956
00:36:28.873 --> 00:36:30.711
ANDREW: And who was renting
movies but young people?
957
00:36:30.711 --> 00:36:32.631
And what movies were they
watching but those movies?
958
00:36:32.631 --> 00:36:34.342
And they could watch us
in their basement.
959
00:36:34.342 --> 00:36:36.806
Over and over.
And it's not like that now.
960
00:36:36.806 --> 00:36:38.560
Nobody owns movies.
No--
961
00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:41.064
you know, it was the same thing
with albums and album covers.
962
00:36:41.064 --> 00:36:42.610
You could look at the album,
and you could look
963
00:36:42.610 --> 00:36:43.987
at the cover,
and you could put it in,
964
00:36:43.987 --> 00:36:46.074
and you could play it.
It meant something more.
965
00:36:46.074 --> 00:36:47.452
It was physical.
966
00:36:47.452 --> 00:36:48.872
[static hums]
967
00:36:48.872 --> 00:36:50.876
[John Parr's "St. Elmo's
Fire (Man In Motion)"
968
00:36:50.876 --> 00:36:52.921
[cheers and applause]
969
00:36:52.921 --> 00:36:54.090
Do you guys know this song?
970
00:36:54.090 --> 00:36:55.761
Or you're all too young
for this song?
971
00:36:55.761 --> 00:36:57.890
JOHN: ♪ Growin' up ♪
972
00:36:57.890 --> 00:37:02.106
♪ You don't see
the writing on the wall ♪
973
00:37:02.106 --> 00:37:03.359
ANDREW:
The music video,
974
00:37:03.359 --> 00:37:04.570
we had to all
go be a part of it.
975
00:37:04.570 --> 00:37:06.406
It was like, oh, my God,
this is so
976
00:37:06.406 --> 00:37:08.620
of that instant in time.
977
00:37:08.620 --> 00:37:10.247
And so it really does
bring back
978
00:37:10.247 --> 00:37:14.297
such specific memories
to me of, like--
979
00:37:14.297 --> 00:37:16.009
♪ I can hear
the music playing ♪
980
00:37:16.009 --> 00:37:18.180
♪ I can see the banners fly ♪
981
00:37:18.180 --> 00:37:20.309
♪ Feel like you're back again ♪
982
00:37:20.309 --> 00:37:22.438
♪ And hope riding high ♪
983
00:37:22.438 --> 00:37:24.860
♪ Gonna be your man in motion ♪
984
00:37:24.860 --> 00:37:26.948
♪ All I need is
these pair of wheels ♪
985
00:37:26.948 --> 00:37:28.868
♪ Take me where
my future's lying ♪
986
00:37:28.868 --> 00:37:31.373
♪ St. Elmo's fire ♪
987
00:37:31.373 --> 00:37:33.085
♪ I can see a new horizon ♪
988
00:37:33.085 --> 00:37:34.672
MICHAEL: Something that unites
a lot of those movies
989
00:37:34.672 --> 00:37:36.425
that people
don't always talk about
990
00:37:36.425 --> 00:37:38.137
is how much
the soundtrack mattered.
991
00:37:38.137 --> 00:37:39.557
Yeah.
992
00:37:39.557 --> 00:37:41.769
And you think about
St. Elmo's Fire.
993
00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:44.107
And it wasn't just
the John Parr song.
994
00:37:44.107 --> 00:37:46.571
It was also, like,
the "Love Theme" instrumental
995
00:37:46.571 --> 00:37:48.240
was a hit song.
996
00:37:48.240 --> 00:37:51.246
[David Foster's "Love Theme
from St. Elmo's Fire "]
997
00:37:51.246 --> 00:37:58.260
♪ ♪
998
00:37:59.429 --> 00:38:01.726
Like, that literally charted.
999
00:38:01.726 --> 00:38:04.147
And with Pretty in Pink,
you're always going to think--
1000
00:38:04.147 --> 00:38:06.819
if you think of Pretty in Pink,
the song playing is going
1001
00:38:06.819 --> 00:38:08.782
to be OMD, "If You Leave".
1002
00:38:08.782 --> 00:38:10.619
[Orchestral Manoeuvres in
the Dark's "If You Leave"]
1003
00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:13.415
SINGER: ♪ Oh, if you leave ♪
1004
00:38:13.415 --> 00:38:16.046
SUSANNAH: These movies changed
the kind of music
1005
00:38:16.046 --> 00:38:18.217
that American teenagers
were listening to.
1006
00:38:18.217 --> 00:38:20.972
The idea of, you know,
random Midwestern teenagers
1007
00:38:20.972 --> 00:38:23.227
knowing every word
and loving, you know,
1008
00:38:23.227 --> 00:38:25.899
new wave British synth pop,
1009
00:38:25.899 --> 00:38:28.780
that's because of these movies.
- Hmm.
1010
00:38:28.780 --> 00:38:30.282
SUSANNAH: It's true.
1011
00:38:30.282 --> 00:38:33.247
That's because, basically,
John Hughes loved these artists
1012
00:38:33.247 --> 00:38:35.459
and put those--
those songs in his films.
1013
00:38:35.459 --> 00:38:36.587
I like doing it.
1014
00:38:36.587 --> 00:38:38.675
I like working
with young actors.
1015
00:38:38.675 --> 00:38:40.427
I like to use music a lot.
1016
00:38:40.427 --> 00:38:42.724
And it's
a very receptive audience.
1017
00:38:42.724 --> 00:38:47.985
Hughes just allows himself
to remember,
1018
00:38:47.985 --> 00:38:52.034
and to think,
and to feel about those times.
1019
00:38:52.034 --> 00:38:54.832
EMILIO: I liked the fact that
he was very collaborative.
1020
00:38:54.832 --> 00:38:56.586
It was like he's-- he
invited you into the process.
1021
00:38:56.586 --> 00:38:58.005
"What do you think?"
1022
00:38:58.005 --> 00:38:59.758
I've never had a director
say "what do you think?"
1023
00:38:59.758 --> 00:39:01.261
ALLY: I mean,
to have a director there
1024
00:39:01.261 --> 00:39:03.808
who just trusts you--
go ahead, improv till the--
1025
00:39:03.808 --> 00:39:05.937
till you hear the sound
of the film, like,
1026
00:39:05.937 --> 00:39:07.774
slapping around
in the canister.
1027
00:39:07.774 --> 00:39:11.072
And it's just sort of--
we ran out of film, reel film.
1028
00:39:11.072 --> 00:39:12.826
He's got a lot of different
levels to him and things.
1029
00:39:12.826 --> 00:39:15.122
He's very enthusiastic
about the work,
1030
00:39:15.122 --> 00:39:16.333
and he's got
a really creative,
1031
00:39:16.333 --> 00:39:18.086
quick mind,
which I really like.
1032
00:39:18.086 --> 00:39:20.424
MOLLY: I admire John
because he is a writer,
1033
00:39:20.424 --> 00:39:23.430
and yet, he's not really
overprotective about his work,
1034
00:39:23.430 --> 00:39:24.975
you know?
He's real good
1035
00:39:24.975 --> 00:39:26.854
about letting people
come in and kind of
1036
00:39:26.854 --> 00:39:28.482
form their own character.
1037
00:39:28.482 --> 00:39:30.612
JOHN: I think one of the
mistakes that's commonly made
1038
00:39:30.612 --> 00:39:34.369
in Hollywood teenage pictures
is that it's just--
1039
00:39:34.369 --> 00:39:35.956
they're going for the bucks,
1040
00:39:35.956 --> 00:39:37.751
and they're not going
for the heart.
1041
00:39:37.751 --> 00:39:41.717
And, you know, I try to make
a movie that's gonna last.
1042
00:39:41.717 --> 00:39:43.261
KATE: I mean,
I still think that John
1043
00:39:43.261 --> 00:39:46.769
is the ultimate
teenage drama filmmaker.
1044
00:39:46.769 --> 00:39:48.355
When he was making
these films,
1045
00:39:48.355 --> 00:39:52.154
he was tapping into his own
adolescent emotions and angst.
1046
00:39:52.154 --> 00:39:54.367
And John, I think,
remembered what it felt like,
1047
00:39:54.367 --> 00:39:55.704
for better and for worse.
1048
00:39:55.704 --> 00:39:57.541
The glaring thing when
we look back
1049
00:39:57.541 --> 00:39:59.545
on Brat Pack movies now--
1050
00:39:59.545 --> 00:40:01.256
with our perspective now--
1051
00:40:01.256 --> 00:40:05.264
is that John Hughes
doesn't deal at all with race.
1052
00:40:05.264 --> 00:40:07.769
I mean, the history of media,
and Hollywood,
1053
00:40:07.769 --> 00:40:11.276
and films has been
white characters for...
1054
00:40:11.276 --> 00:40:13.488
- Ever.
- Forever, you know?
1055
00:40:13.488 --> 00:40:17.873
And so when you aren't white,
and you're consuming media,
1056
00:40:17.873 --> 00:40:22.716
you are sort of used
to the media being white.
1057
00:40:22.716 --> 00:40:25.680
You know, and you sort of
build up the ability
1058
00:40:25.680 --> 00:40:29.688
to, you know, empathize
with and connect with--
1059
00:40:29.688 --> 00:40:31.066
you know, I think
it's never really
1060
00:40:31.066 --> 00:40:32.944
been a problem
for non-white people
1061
00:40:32.944 --> 00:40:34.948
to watch, like,
a Pretty in Pink
1062
00:40:34.948 --> 00:40:36.368
or a Breakfast Club
and sort of connect
1063
00:40:36.368 --> 00:40:39.792
with those characters
because we are--
1064
00:40:39.792 --> 00:40:41.419
you're used to consuming it.
1065
00:40:41.419 --> 00:40:44.510
Even now, when there's
a lot of diverse options,
1066
00:40:44.510 --> 00:40:48.684
the majority of the media
is still sort of white-leaning,
1067
00:40:48.684 --> 00:40:52.609
you know, despite people
protesting that it's not.
1068
00:40:52.609 --> 00:40:54.613
Ferris Bueller's Day Off,
he's a kid from
1069
00:40:54.613 --> 00:40:56.032
the northern suburbs
of Chicago.
1070
00:40:56.032 --> 00:40:57.702
If you watch it
and you're like,
1071
00:40:57.702 --> 00:41:00.917
oh, he's reflecting the way
the world was in the '80s--
1072
00:41:00.917 --> 00:41:03.130
you know,
the Brown decision is '54,
1073
00:41:03.130 --> 00:41:05.050
which is the legal end
of educational segregation
1074
00:41:05.050 --> 00:41:06.637
in this country,
1075
00:41:06.637 --> 00:41:09.308
but the country
just resegregated after that
1076
00:41:09.308 --> 00:41:11.229
just along kind of
residential lines.
1077
00:41:11.229 --> 00:41:13.651
So it's like, the reality
of being a suburban,
1078
00:41:13.651 --> 00:41:16.114
upper-middle-class suburban kid
from outside Chicago
1079
00:41:16.114 --> 00:41:17.659
in the 1980s
is that there were--
1080
00:41:17.659 --> 00:41:19.495
there was, like,
one Black kid in your class.
1081
00:41:19.495 --> 00:41:21.332
That's the reality
of it in that era.
1082
00:41:21.332 --> 00:41:22.878
So, like, I don't know.
1083
00:41:22.878 --> 00:41:26.134
We can watch those movies and
just be reminded that's what--
1084
00:41:26.134 --> 00:41:27.971
that's what America was.
1085
00:41:27.971 --> 00:41:30.309
MICHAEL: But I think
that what John Hughes
1086
00:41:30.309 --> 00:41:34.108
was interested in
in a real way was class.
1087
00:41:34.108 --> 00:41:37.782
I want to show this girl that
I'm as good as anybody else.
1088
00:41:37.782 --> 00:41:40.037
CLIFF: So what, are you gonna
impress her with money?
1089
00:41:40.037 --> 00:41:41.665
You think
that's the solution, Keith?
1090
00:41:41.665 --> 00:41:43.920
Dad, didn't you ever
have guys at your school
1091
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:45.882
that didn't fit in?
1092
00:41:45.882 --> 00:41:48.721
CLIFF: Yeah, of course.
- Yeah?
1093
00:41:48.721 --> 00:41:52.646
[chuckles]
Well, I'm one of those guys.
1094
00:41:52.646 --> 00:41:55.652
[orchestral music]
1095
00:41:55.652 --> 00:42:00.327
♪ ♪
1096
00:42:00.327 --> 00:42:02.414
ANDREW: When I first heard
the term "Brat Pack,"
1097
00:42:02.414 --> 00:42:04.377
my memory is being
in your office, which was--
1098
00:42:04.377 --> 00:42:05.922
my memory is also,
you were just across the hall
1099
00:42:05.922 --> 00:42:08.051
from John Hughes there.
- Yeah.
1100
00:42:08.051 --> 00:42:09.513
ANDREW: And you're
the first person I remember
1101
00:42:09.513 --> 00:42:12.226
saying, "They're calling
you guys the Brat Pack."
1102
00:42:12.226 --> 00:42:14.815
And you seemed to think that,
like, that's cool.
1103
00:42:14.815 --> 00:42:18.280
Yeah, it was a good thing.
It distinguished us.
1104
00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:20.868
It took us out
of a whole year of movies.
1105
00:42:20.868 --> 00:42:22.831
It put us in the forefront.
1106
00:42:22.831 --> 00:42:24.918
I mean, you have to realize
when people saw
1107
00:42:24.918 --> 00:42:27.047
St. Elmo's--
young people--
1108
00:42:27.047 --> 00:42:30.763
they wanted to be part
of the St. Elmo's Brat Pack.
1109
00:42:30.763 --> 00:42:32.266
[both grunting]
1110
00:42:32.266 --> 00:42:33.602
[together]
Boogah, boogah, boogah.
1111
00:42:33.602 --> 00:42:36.107
Ah, ah, ah!
[laughter]
1112
00:42:36.107 --> 00:42:37.777
LAUREN:
Here's what I understood.
1113
00:42:37.777 --> 00:42:40.407
I understood that the guy
who wrote it, in all deference,
1114
00:42:40.407 --> 00:42:43.622
was jealous of Emilio
and all of you guys.
1115
00:42:43.622 --> 00:42:46.377
He termed "Brat Pack"
as a bad term,
1116
00:42:46.377 --> 00:42:48.716
and I thought it was fabulous.
1117
00:42:48.716 --> 00:42:50.970
I thought it was--
aren't these guys lucky,
1118
00:42:50.970 --> 00:42:52.431
and aren't they talented?
1119
00:42:52.431 --> 00:42:54.185
They made their luck.
1120
00:42:54.185 --> 00:42:56.272
If we had perceived
it that way,
1121
00:42:56.272 --> 00:42:58.276
all our careers and lives
would have been different.
1122
00:42:58.276 --> 00:42:59.780
[laughter]
1123
00:42:59.780 --> 00:43:02.117
I think we perceived it as
you're spoiled fucking brats.
1124
00:43:02.117 --> 00:43:03.704
Yeah, I know.
I know.
1125
00:43:03.704 --> 00:43:06.334
- Are you in the Brat Pack?
- I'm Brat Pack-adjacent.
1126
00:43:06.334 --> 00:43:07.712
- That's what I would say.
- [laughs]
1127
00:43:07.712 --> 00:43:09.758
I'd say you're
Brat Pack-adjacent. Exactly.
1128
00:43:09.758 --> 00:43:11.637
And did you want
to be in the Brat Pack?
1129
00:43:11.637 --> 00:43:13.599
LEA: I did.
I did.
1130
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:15.978
And I was like, "Aw,
I would have liked to have
1131
00:43:15.978 --> 00:43:17.314
hung out with you guys."
1132
00:43:17.314 --> 00:43:19.569
- But we never hung out.
- I know.
1133
00:43:19.569 --> 00:43:21.657
It was an illusion,
like all of Hollywood.
1134
00:43:21.657 --> 00:43:22.951
Well, they're the cool kids.
1135
00:43:22.951 --> 00:43:24.453
They're the people
you want to hang out with.
1136
00:43:24.453 --> 00:43:26.332
And I think it just, like,
continues the fantasy.
1137
00:43:26.332 --> 00:43:28.879
You wouldn't want that
to end when the movie is over.
1138
00:43:28.879 --> 00:43:30.717
You don't want everyone to,
like, go back to their trailer
1139
00:43:30.717 --> 00:43:32.010
and not talk to each other.
1140
00:43:32.010 --> 00:43:34.599
You want them all to be young,
and cool, and fun
1141
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:36.603
on screen and off screen.
1142
00:43:36.603 --> 00:43:37.605
JON: You know,
everybody always wants
1143
00:43:37.605 --> 00:43:39.024
to be part of the cool group.
1144
00:43:39.024 --> 00:43:40.737
You know, there was always
a part of me
1145
00:43:40.737 --> 00:43:42.448
like, "Yeah, whatever."
1146
00:43:42.448 --> 00:43:45.997
They're-- you know,
"They're not so great anyway."
1147
00:43:45.997 --> 00:43:47.667
Oh, the Brat Pack.
1148
00:43:47.667 --> 00:43:50.798
I-- I think people just
want to put people in groups.
1149
00:43:50.798 --> 00:43:52.426
I don't-- the only--
I don't--
1150
00:43:52.426 --> 00:43:54.931
I mean, of the Brat Pack,
I don't really--
1151
00:43:54.931 --> 00:43:57.186
I certainly don't think
I'm a part of it.
1152
00:43:57.186 --> 00:43:58.564
I mean--
[laughs].
1153
00:43:58.564 --> 00:44:00.108
I hope not.
1154
00:44:00.108 --> 00:44:01.945
So have you spoken to Molly?
1155
00:44:01.945 --> 00:44:03.406
ANDREW: I, of course,
asked Molly
1156
00:44:03.406 --> 00:44:04.868
if she'd like to speak,
and she said
1157
00:44:04.868 --> 00:44:06.412
she'd think about it
1158
00:44:06.412 --> 00:44:08.166
but that she would probably
just like
1159
00:44:08.166 --> 00:44:10.630
to just keep looking forward.
And so--
1160
00:44:10.630 --> 00:44:12.216
Interesting.
1161
00:44:12.216 --> 00:44:15.932
I think Molly, you know,
wants to move on, wants--
1162
00:44:15.932 --> 00:44:19.188
we all want to be taken
without the baggage
1163
00:44:19.188 --> 00:44:23.154
of our pop cultural
references as an actor.
1164
00:44:23.154 --> 00:44:24.783
We want to just act.
1165
00:44:24.783 --> 00:44:26.369
Does it make it
difficult for you
1166
00:44:26.369 --> 00:44:27.914
to work with that group
of actors because
1167
00:44:27.914 --> 00:44:29.333
of the publicity attendant?
1168
00:44:29.333 --> 00:44:31.170
I think that the most
reprehensible thing
1169
00:44:31.170 --> 00:44:33.466
about it all is that
it portrays us
1170
00:44:33.466 --> 00:44:35.095
as not being serious
about our work.
1171
00:44:35.095 --> 00:44:37.600
Regardless of how our
personal life may be portrayed
1172
00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:40.898
by those people who aren't
in our personal lives,
1173
00:44:40.898 --> 00:44:44.113
our professional life should
be painted in the true picture.
1174
00:44:44.113 --> 00:44:46.577
It should not
cost us professionally
1175
00:44:46.577 --> 00:44:49.791
because of a point of view
that's outside of it.
1176
00:44:49.791 --> 00:44:52.797
[Lou Reed's
"Ride Into the Sun"]
1177
00:44:52.797 --> 00:44:55.427
♪ ♪
1178
00:44:55.427 --> 00:45:01.773
LOU: ♪ Looking for
another chance ♪
1179
00:45:01.773 --> 00:45:05.488
♪ For someone else to be ♪
1180
00:45:05.488 --> 00:45:07.409
♪ ♪
1181
00:45:07.409 --> 00:45:12.461
♪ Looking for another place ♪
1182
00:45:12.461 --> 00:45:16.511
♪ To ride into the sun ♪
1183
00:45:16.511 --> 00:45:17.889
ANDREW: When we first
started this,
1184
00:45:17.889 --> 00:45:19.391
I thought, you know,
the biggest problem
1185
00:45:19.391 --> 00:45:21.938
with this is going to be
getting everyone to say yes
1186
00:45:21.938 --> 00:45:26.030
because I know there's still
such post-traumatic stress
1187
00:45:26.030 --> 00:45:30.455
associated with it for
some of the gang, you know?
1188
00:45:30.455 --> 00:45:32.919
And our past lives on in us.
1189
00:45:32.919 --> 00:45:34.798
As much as we try
and leave things in the past,
1190
00:45:34.798 --> 00:45:37.260
they don't get left there,
you know?
1191
00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:38.806
It's like that
Eugene O'Neill line.
1192
00:45:38.806 --> 00:45:40.183
"The past is the present.
1193
00:45:40.183 --> 00:45:42.396
It's the future too"
1194
00:45:42.396 --> 00:45:46.863
LOU: ♪ Ride into the sun ♪
1195
00:45:46.863 --> 00:45:52.709
♪ Where everything
seems so pretty ♪
1196
00:45:52.709 --> 00:45:54.504
♪ But if you're tired
and you're ♪
1197
00:45:54.504 --> 00:45:57.510
ANDREW: So we're out here
in the sticks
1198
00:45:57.510 --> 00:46:00.223
to track down Tim Hutton.
1199
00:46:00.223 --> 00:46:04.189
I met Tim in the early '80s
1200
00:46:04.189 --> 00:46:07.697
before the Brat Pack of it all.
1201
00:46:07.697 --> 00:46:10.410
He was in
Ordinary People in 1980,
1202
00:46:10.410 --> 00:46:12.749
won the Academy Award--
deservedly so.
1203
00:46:12.749 --> 00:46:14.334
He was spectacular
in that movie.
1204
00:46:14.334 --> 00:46:16.965
And you could argue that
the origins of the youth film
1205
00:46:16.965 --> 00:46:18.510
started right there.
1206
00:46:18.510 --> 00:46:19.846
Obviously, Ordinary People
was not a youth--
1207
00:46:19.846 --> 00:46:22.643
or a teen movie in any way,
but he was a teen.
1208
00:46:22.643 --> 00:46:26.943
And it took young people,
1209
00:46:26.943 --> 00:46:30.241
his character in that movie,
very seriously.
1210
00:46:30.241 --> 00:46:32.037
Oh, I think that was it.
1211
00:46:32.037 --> 00:46:34.584
I think I just passed it.
1212
00:46:34.584 --> 00:46:36.045
So, yeah,
it'll be great to see Tim.
1213
00:46:36.045 --> 00:46:37.673
I haven't seen him in forever.
1214
00:46:37.673 --> 00:46:40.094
And I'll get
his take on all this.
1215
00:46:40.094 --> 00:46:41.723
Because he was certainly
in the heart of it,
1216
00:46:41.723 --> 00:46:45.021
in the center of it back then,
yet somehow evaded
1217
00:46:45.021 --> 00:46:49.404
the Brat Pack label.
1218
00:46:49.404 --> 00:46:51.367
Hey.
[laughs]
1219
00:46:51.367 --> 00:46:53.454
I'm wandering up
to some random house
1220
00:46:53.454 --> 00:46:54.666
hoping not to get shot.
1221
00:46:54.666 --> 00:46:56.168
[laughs]
TIM: Welcome.
1222
00:46:56.168 --> 00:46:58.214
ANDREW: Hello, Tim.
TIM: How are you, man?
1223
00:46:58.214 --> 00:46:59.299
Good to see you.
1224
00:46:59.299 --> 00:47:00.678
ANDREW: Nice to see you.
TIM: Yeah.
1225
00:47:00.678 --> 00:47:02.515
ANDREW: Hi.
Thanks.
1226
00:47:02.515 --> 00:47:03.851
TIM: Yeah, absolutely.
1227
00:47:03.851 --> 00:47:05.478
ANDREW: You look great.
TIM: I got bees.
1228
00:47:05.478 --> 00:47:07.190
Those are-- that's--
ANDREW: Are you beekeeper?
1229
00:47:07.190 --> 00:47:08.610
Yeah, 60,000 bees.
1230
00:47:08.610 --> 00:47:10.029
ANDREW: Jesus, dude.
TIM: Yeah.
1231
00:47:10.029 --> 00:47:11.240
ANDREW: Look at you.
1232
00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:12.952
I see you now.
1233
00:47:12.952 --> 00:47:14.789
I still feel like, in a way,
your showbiz younger brother.
1234
00:47:14.789 --> 00:47:16.835
Because you were one
of the first people I met.
1235
00:47:16.835 --> 00:47:18.922
You seemed to take me
under your wing.
1236
00:47:18.922 --> 00:47:21.260
And like, you were living
in upper west--
1237
00:47:21.260 --> 00:47:22.304
what street?
Do you remember what street
1238
00:47:22.304 --> 00:47:23.974
you lived on in that--
- 82nd.
1239
00:47:23.974 --> 00:47:25.561
OK, you were living
in that place,
1240
00:47:25.561 --> 00:47:27.230
and we used to go down
to Arthur's restaurant,
1241
00:47:27.230 --> 00:47:28.525
the pizza place--
- Arturo's.
1242
00:47:28.525 --> 00:47:29.861
- Arturo's.
- Yeah.
1243
00:47:29.861 --> 00:47:32.073
Yeah. And anyway,
and then we did that show,
1244
00:47:32.073 --> 00:47:33.744
the Steven Spielberg--
1245
00:47:33.744 --> 00:47:35.371
TIM: Amazing Stories.
ANDREW: Amazing Stories.
1246
00:47:35.371 --> 00:47:36.750
TIM: Yeah.
1247
00:47:36.750 --> 00:47:38.419
ANDREW: I so looked up to you
and admired you
1248
00:47:38.419 --> 00:47:40.465
because, you know, if Lou Reed
was the godfather of punk,
1249
00:47:40.465 --> 00:47:42.218
you're like the godfather
of the Brat Pack...
1250
00:47:42.218 --> 00:47:43.639
[laughs]
ANDDREW: In a certain way.
1251
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:44.933
You know what I mean?
1252
00:47:44.933 --> 00:47:46.477
Because we did--
we all stood on your shoulders.
1253
00:47:46.477 --> 00:47:47.939
During that time,
there was a lot
1254
00:47:47.939 --> 00:47:51.571
of really interesting scripts
by interesting filmmakers.
1255
00:47:51.571 --> 00:47:54.326
It mostly featured
young people
1256
00:47:54.326 --> 00:47:55.955
in their 20s during that time.
1257
00:47:55.955 --> 00:47:58.167
ANDREW: Yeah, it was an
amazing time to be that age,
1258
00:47:58.167 --> 00:48:00.714
and we were there, you know,
at the center of it.
1259
00:48:00.714 --> 00:48:02.677
Do you remember where you were
the first time
1260
00:48:02.677 --> 00:48:04.096
you heard the term "Brat Pack?"
1261
00:48:04.096 --> 00:48:05.724
What do you remember
of that time?
1262
00:48:05.724 --> 00:48:09.439
I just thought, you know,
that it was honestly
1263
00:48:09.439 --> 00:48:11.736
kind of a cheap--
both of those words,
1264
00:48:11.736 --> 00:48:14.909
"brat" and "pack"--
1265
00:48:14.909 --> 00:48:18.290
I felt like I was just
starting my life and my career.
1266
00:48:18.290 --> 00:48:22.215
Are you getting offered
the kind of parts you want?
1267
00:48:22.215 --> 00:48:25.054
Or do the people
who make these things up
1268
00:48:25.054 --> 00:48:27.183
view you in a certain way
that's limiting?
1269
00:48:27.183 --> 00:48:28.979
ANDREW: [laughs]
I think you get in a rut--
1270
00:48:28.979 --> 00:48:30.733
not a rut necessarily,
1271
00:48:30.733 --> 00:48:31.985
but people see you in one way,
and they like to keep
1272
00:48:31.985 --> 00:48:33.572
seeing you that way
because it's--
1273
00:48:33.572 --> 00:48:35.074
you know, people like
to use as little imagination,
1274
00:48:35.074 --> 00:48:36.452
really, as possible
all the time.
1275
00:48:36.452 --> 00:48:37.830
I guess I asked
that because I--
1276
00:48:37.830 --> 00:48:39.291
ANDREW: All we ever want
in life is to be seen, right?
1277
00:48:39.291 --> 00:48:40.711
See me.
- Right.
1278
00:48:40.711 --> 00:48:42.673
ANDREW: Hear what I have to say
and see me.
1279
00:48:42.673 --> 00:48:44.259
And I felt suddenly--
[claps]
1280
00:48:44.259 --> 00:48:46.013
like that happened,
where it felt like--
1281
00:48:46.013 --> 00:48:47.933
experienced like a slap
and then a redirection
1282
00:48:47.933 --> 00:48:49.478
that I didn't turn.
1283
00:48:49.478 --> 00:48:51.900
I suddenly felt like
I wasn't being seen.
1284
00:48:51.900 --> 00:48:55.031
It was making a comment on,
you know,
1285
00:48:55.031 --> 00:48:59.206
in a really cynical way,
young actors and young people
1286
00:48:59.206 --> 00:49:02.003
with tremendous success...
- Yeah.
1287
00:49:02.003 --> 00:49:03.924
Based on nothing.
1288
00:49:03.924 --> 00:49:06.930
It was just sort of like,
I've decided this.
1289
00:49:06.930 --> 00:49:08.307
[chuckles]
1290
00:49:08.307 --> 00:49:09.936
And then so suddenly,
one learns protectiveness.
1291
00:49:09.936 --> 00:49:12.023
And that's--
if you're an actor,
1292
00:49:12.023 --> 00:49:14.319
being protective and shut off
and closed in
1293
00:49:14.319 --> 00:49:15.781
is the last thing
one can afford to be
1294
00:49:15.781 --> 00:49:17.450
if you're gonna work properly.
TIM: Yeah.
1295
00:49:17.450 --> 00:49:19.956
Have you talked to the others
about that?
1296
00:49:19.956 --> 00:49:21.458
"The others."
1297
00:49:21.458 --> 00:49:23.295
Like, again, it feels like
a cult or something.
1298
00:49:23.295 --> 00:49:24.674
ANDREW: Well, that's
interesting, right?
1299
00:49:24.674 --> 00:49:25.968
I don't know them, and yet,
1300
00:49:25.968 --> 00:49:27.805
I know them because
they experienced this thing
1301
00:49:27.805 --> 00:49:29.057
and it has been
dragging around with them
1302
00:49:29.057 --> 00:49:30.351
for 30-odd years.
- Branded.
1303
00:49:30.351 --> 00:49:32.438
ANDREW: Branded.
We share a brand.
1304
00:49:32.438 --> 00:49:34.359
Well, I just didn't know how
to address it or deal with it,
1305
00:49:34.359 --> 00:49:36.071
you know?
TIM: Yeah.
1306
00:49:36.071 --> 00:49:37.700
So I just tried to run
and whatever.
1307
00:49:37.700 --> 00:49:40.037
And then 35 years later,
I guess I sort of
1308
00:49:40.037 --> 00:49:41.206
stopped running,
and turned around,
1309
00:49:41.206 --> 00:49:43.252
and go, "Oh,
so you're still there? OK.
1310
00:49:43.252 --> 00:49:45.006
Let's-- let's look at you."
[laughs]
1311
00:49:45.006 --> 00:49:46.801
You know what I mean?
- Yeah, yeah.
1312
00:49:46.801 --> 00:49:48.597
I'm surprised because
I'm not a sentimental person.
1313
00:49:48.597 --> 00:49:49.932
I'm not a nostalgic person.
1314
00:49:49.932 --> 00:49:52.813
And yet,
I'm finding it deeply moving.
1315
00:49:52.813 --> 00:49:55.527
Like, I see you, and I'm like,
"Wow, there's Tim."
1316
00:49:55.527 --> 00:49:58.533
[Alphaville's "Forever Young"]
1317
00:49:58.533 --> 00:50:01.998
♪ ♪
1318
00:50:01.998 --> 00:50:04.545
I came out here to LA
this weekend
1319
00:50:04.545 --> 00:50:06.465
to try and talk
to some of the gang,
1320
00:50:06.465 --> 00:50:08.427
and they've proven
to be a bit elusive.
1321
00:50:08.427 --> 00:50:11.726
Judd is at some undisclosed
location and not available.
1322
00:50:11.726 --> 00:50:14.607
And Rob, suddenly,
was in Orlando.
1323
00:50:14.607 --> 00:50:17.655
When I told my wife
I was gonna make a movie about
1324
00:50:17.655 --> 00:50:22.706
talking to the Brat Pack,
she said that it would probably
1325
00:50:22.706 --> 00:50:25.169
be very good for my humility.
1326
00:50:25.169 --> 00:50:27.465
And now, I understand
what she's talking about.
1327
00:50:27.465 --> 00:50:29.762
♪ ♪
1328
00:50:29.762 --> 00:50:31.724
I'm not sure I like it.
1329
00:50:31.724 --> 00:50:33.477
MARIAN:
♪ Sitting in a sandpit ♪
1330
00:50:33.477 --> 00:50:34.981
♪ Life is a short trip ♪
1331
00:50:34.981 --> 00:50:36.441
♪ The music's
for the sad men ♪
1332
00:50:36.441 --> 00:50:38.112
ANDREW: Ah, good.
We're late.
1333
00:50:38.112 --> 00:50:42.955
[laughs]
What a shit show, huh?
1334
00:50:42.955 --> 00:50:45.334
There you are.
1335
00:50:45.334 --> 00:50:47.297
I hope the vicious dogs
don't attack us.
1336
00:50:47.297 --> 00:50:48.465
MARIAN:
♪ Getting in tune ♪
1337
00:50:48.465 --> 00:50:50.011
♪ The music's played by the ♪
1338
00:50:50.011 --> 00:50:51.806
♪ The madman ♪
1339
00:50:51.806 --> 00:50:54.311
♪ Forever young ♪
1340
00:50:54.311 --> 00:50:58.611
♪ I want to be forever young ♪
1341
00:50:58.611 --> 00:51:02.368
♪ Do you really want
to live forever? ♪
1342
00:51:02.368 --> 00:51:05.584
♪ Forever and ever ♪
1343
00:51:05.584 --> 00:51:06.961
DEMI: Good to see you.
1344
00:51:06.961 --> 00:51:09.174
ANDREW: Yeah, how are you?
DEMI: Good. Welcome.
1345
00:51:09.174 --> 00:51:10.802
MARIAN: ♪ I want to be
forever young ♪
1346
00:51:10.802 --> 00:51:13.015
DEMI: Do you want to sit here?
ANDREW: Maybe so.
1347
00:51:13.015 --> 00:51:15.269
Are you guys good?
- I'm playing with my hair.
1348
00:51:15.269 --> 00:51:16.939
I don't want my ears
sticking out like an elf.
1349
00:51:16.939 --> 00:51:18.400
Slippers good?
[laughs]
1350
00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:19.654
ANDREW: The slippers are good.
1351
00:51:19.654 --> 00:51:21.156
I remember the first time
I saw you.
1352
00:51:21.156 --> 00:51:22.367
You walked into--
we were on the sound stage
1353
00:51:22.367 --> 00:51:24.747
at Columbia there
for St. Elmo's Fire.
1354
00:51:24.747 --> 00:51:26.416
And my memory is you came--
Joel kind of
1355
00:51:26.416 --> 00:51:28.379
brought you in
and presented you
1356
00:51:28.379 --> 00:51:29.674
to the room as this--
1357
00:51:29.674 --> 00:51:31.343
this creature
that he's created.
1358
00:51:31.343 --> 00:51:33.472
And it's like--
and it was just so weird.
1359
00:51:33.472 --> 00:51:35.017
And I just remember going,
"Oh, why is Joel
1360
00:51:35.017 --> 00:51:36.019
treating her like that?"
[laughs]
1361
00:51:36.019 --> 00:51:37.606
You know, it was--
1362
00:51:37.606 --> 00:51:39.275
DEMI: But you know what was
so beautiful is he really
1363
00:51:39.275 --> 00:51:40.987
stuck his neck out for me
'cause it's not like
1364
00:51:40.987 --> 00:51:42.699
I had any box office draw.
1365
00:51:42.699 --> 00:51:44.995
I-- we were all just beginning.
1366
00:51:44.995 --> 00:51:47.626
I didn't-- I didn't have
anything to really
1367
00:51:47.626 --> 00:51:50.339
warrant him sticking by me.
1368
00:51:50.339 --> 00:51:55.224
They paid to have a companion,
a sober companion with me 24/7
1369
00:51:55.224 --> 00:51:56.519
during the whole shooting.
ANDREW: Did they?
1370
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:57.855
Yeah.
ANDREW: I didn't even notice.
1371
00:51:57.855 --> 00:52:00.484
I didn't even notice.
- And I literally was--
1372
00:52:00.484 --> 00:52:02.614
like, they could have easily
just found someone else.
1373
00:52:02.614 --> 00:52:04.869
Going to treatment,
they were like,
1374
00:52:04.869 --> 00:52:06.204
"We want you to check in.
1375
00:52:06.204 --> 00:52:07.791
I'm like, "No, no,
I'm starting a movie."
1376
00:52:07.791 --> 00:52:10.045
And they said, "Yes, but
what's more important to you,
1377
00:52:10.045 --> 00:52:11.758
the movie or your life?"
1378
00:52:11.758 --> 00:52:12.801
And I said, "The movie."
ANDREW: The movie.
1379
00:52:12.801 --> 00:52:14.012
[laughter]
Come on.
1380
00:52:14.012 --> 00:52:15.640
Come on.
What they talking about?
1381
00:52:15.640 --> 00:52:18.563
I mean, for me, like, I didn't
have any value for myself.
1382
00:52:18.563 --> 00:52:23.322
I think I was so fearful
of failing, fearful of losing,
1383
00:52:23.322 --> 00:52:26.453
and desperate to kind of
fit in, belong.
1384
00:52:26.453 --> 00:52:31.338
And my need to please
was definitely on high alert.
1385
00:52:31.338 --> 00:52:32.716
I think that's been
the nice thing
1386
00:52:32.716 --> 00:52:36.181
with Joel's casting.
He's been real insightful in--
1387
00:52:36.181 --> 00:52:37.518
in placing us.
1388
00:52:37.518 --> 00:52:40.649
Because it's--
we're all playing extensions
1389
00:52:40.649 --> 00:52:42.611
of ourselves that are real--
1390
00:52:42.611 --> 00:52:44.865
are real, you know, inward.
1391
00:52:44.865 --> 00:52:47.996
Inward places that we've
probably not yet looked at.
1392
00:52:47.996 --> 00:52:49.499
ANDREW: Do you remember where
you were the first time
1393
00:52:49.499 --> 00:52:50.961
you heard the term "Brat Pack"?
1394
00:52:50.961 --> 00:52:54.510
I remember it coming out
and being like, what the fuck?
1395
00:52:54.510 --> 00:52:55.595
[laughs]
1396
00:52:55.595 --> 00:52:57.473
Why did we take it
as an offense?
1397
00:52:57.473 --> 00:52:58.935
That's the thing.
1398
00:52:58.935 --> 00:53:00.522
Why did we take it as
something bad as opposed to--
1399
00:53:00.522 --> 00:53:02.024
Well, because
you're called a "brat."
1400
00:53:02.024 --> 00:53:03.277
You're called a fucking "brat."
[laughs]
1401
00:53:03.277 --> 00:53:04.487
DEMI: I know,
and it's because we were young
1402
00:53:04.487 --> 00:53:05.991
that we thought,
"Oh, if we're--"
1403
00:53:05.991 --> 00:53:07.493
And we were afraid
we were brats, you know?
1404
00:53:07.493 --> 00:53:10.124
DEMI: It definitely
really irritated me.
1405
00:53:10.124 --> 00:53:14.592
I felt like a sense of it
being unjust.
1406
00:53:14.592 --> 00:53:15.802
I just think it--
1407
00:53:15.802 --> 00:53:17.681
I just felt like it
didn't represent us,
1408
00:53:17.681 --> 00:53:21.313
and I felt like it was
a real limited perspective.
1409
00:53:21.313 --> 00:53:23.902
It stayed with me
for a while, you know,
1410
00:53:23.902 --> 00:53:26.824
just as I did press things.
1411
00:53:26.824 --> 00:53:28.578
You know, "The Brat Pack,"
blah, blah--
1412
00:53:28.578 --> 00:53:30.122
you know?
ANDREW: Yeah.
1413
00:53:30.122 --> 00:53:34.130
But I don't know if I took it
as personal over time
1414
00:53:34.130 --> 00:53:36.844
maybe than as you did--
or even the impact
1415
00:53:36.844 --> 00:53:38.388
that you may have had from it.
1416
00:53:38.388 --> 00:53:40.602
I'm still wrangling
with that notion
1417
00:53:40.602 --> 00:53:43.357
of, like, I allowed that--
1418
00:53:43.357 --> 00:53:45.361
even though I said it didn't.
1419
00:53:45.361 --> 00:53:48.450
But it was like there was
a belief that you were
1420
00:53:48.450 --> 00:53:52.959
holding underneath that
you made that mean something
1421
00:53:52.959 --> 00:53:55.548
about you that
then created a limitation
1422
00:53:55.548 --> 00:53:58.805
in your expression,
and that's-- you know, and in--
1423
00:53:58.805 --> 00:54:00.934
ANDREW: Say that again.
That's exactly right.
1424
00:54:00.934 --> 00:54:03.188
[laughter]
No, but that's exactly right.
1425
00:54:03.188 --> 00:54:06.236
Fear was such a dominant part
of my life when I was a kid.
1426
00:54:06.236 --> 00:54:07.990
And it's still something
I contend with
1427
00:54:07.990 --> 00:54:11.371
on a daily basis, right?
So-- and my fear--
1428
00:54:11.371 --> 00:54:12.958
I always felt like
I was being stabbed
1429
00:54:12.958 --> 00:54:14.085
right between
my shoulder blades
1430
00:54:14.085 --> 00:54:16.006
by some unknown kind of thing.
1431
00:54:16.006 --> 00:54:19.387
And that's what I felt like
when I first heard
1432
00:54:19.387 --> 00:54:20.598
the term "Brat Pack."
1433
00:54:20.598 --> 00:54:22.769
I have a similar one in--
1434
00:54:22.769 --> 00:54:24.272
in an old pattern.
1435
00:54:24.272 --> 00:54:27.486
And mine was the rug being
pulled out from under me.
1436
00:54:27.486 --> 00:54:32.038
Yeah, Jules, why do I feel
like I'm not here by accident?
1437
00:54:32.038 --> 00:54:33.791
I have been needing
to talk to you.
1438
00:54:33.791 --> 00:54:34.877
[laughs]
1439
00:54:34.877 --> 00:54:36.129
It sounds like
one of our infamous
1440
00:54:36.129 --> 00:54:37.841
conversations is coming.
1441
00:54:37.841 --> 00:54:41.097
I look at everything as
happening for us, not to us.
1442
00:54:41.097 --> 00:54:42.893
And you can't be selective
with that.
1443
00:54:42.893 --> 00:54:45.982
The fact that that came out
and it tried to diminish us
1444
00:54:45.982 --> 00:54:49.782
was also an opportunity
to rise above it, to say,
1445
00:54:49.782 --> 00:54:52.244
"No, I am much more than that.
1446
00:54:52.244 --> 00:54:55.125
"I am not, you know,
for whatever reason,
1447
00:54:55.125 --> 00:54:58.633
the offensive part of being
kind of seen as a 'brat.'"
1448
00:54:58.633 --> 00:55:01.054
ANDREW: For me,
that's years in the process
1449
00:55:01.054 --> 00:55:03.225
to come to that kind of thing.
1450
00:55:03.225 --> 00:55:05.270
That's really just wise.
You know?
1451
00:55:05.270 --> 00:55:06.816
That took me years to--
1452
00:55:06.816 --> 00:55:10.405
because all I felt is it was
negative for so long, and--
1453
00:55:10.405 --> 00:55:12.994
But I think that that is a
common part of our conditioning
1454
00:55:12.994 --> 00:55:17.671
is to see these things
that have been, in a sense,
1455
00:55:17.671 --> 00:55:19.591
what we hold as against-ness.
1456
00:55:19.591 --> 00:55:21.302
It was like
an against-ness to us.
1457
00:55:21.302 --> 00:55:22.889
It was a-- it was.
It was a--
1458
00:55:22.889 --> 00:55:24.475
ANDREW: Ooh, I like that--
an "against-ness."
1459
00:55:24.475 --> 00:55:26.187
DEMI: It was.
- Yeah, it was.
1460
00:55:26.187 --> 00:55:30.320
But against-ness
only provokes against-ness.
1461
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:33.326
And so when we hold things
that way, we create...
1462
00:55:33.326 --> 00:55:35.497
- Totally.
- That pattern.
1463
00:55:35.497 --> 00:55:37.126
Like, that idea of being
stabbed in the back
1464
00:55:37.126 --> 00:55:39.715
is something you related to
as something much earlier
1465
00:55:39.715 --> 00:55:41.175
in your life.
ANDREW: Yeah.
1466
00:55:41.175 --> 00:55:43.305
So I'm predisposed
to interpret it that way.
1467
00:55:43.305 --> 00:55:45.225
Not only that,
you're predisposed
1468
00:55:45.225 --> 00:55:47.689
to recreating it until you
hit a point where you're...
1469
00:55:47.689 --> 00:55:48.774
Well, yeah.
1470
00:55:48.774 --> 00:55:50.110
You don't want
to do that anymore.
1471
00:55:50.110 --> 00:55:51.362
You go to enough therapy,
and you kind of go--
1472
00:55:51.362 --> 00:55:52.824
And here you are.
1473
00:55:52.824 --> 00:55:54.578
You're working through this
just with that same purpose.
1474
00:55:54.578 --> 00:55:56.372
And now here we are, Doctor.
Dr. Demi, listen.
1475
00:55:56.372 --> 00:55:57.792
[laughter]
1476
00:55:57.792 --> 00:55:59.630
There's the brink
of insanity,
1477
00:55:59.630 --> 00:56:01.424
and then there is the abyss...
1478
00:56:01.424 --> 00:56:02.761
- Kev, there's nothing to be...
- Which obviously...
1479
00:56:02.761 --> 00:56:04.180
- Ashamed of.
- You've fallen into.
1480
00:56:04.180 --> 00:56:06.351
I had ambition.
And yet part of me--
1481
00:56:06.351 --> 00:56:08.188
I have one hand
that really wants something,
1482
00:56:08.188 --> 00:56:09.566
and to this day,
I have one hand
1483
00:56:09.566 --> 00:56:10.777
that really wants something,
1484
00:56:10.777 --> 00:56:12.029
and on the other hand,
I just want to go,
1485
00:56:12.029 --> 00:56:13.239
"I just want to get
the fuck out of here."
1486
00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:14.952
I'm so similar in that way.
1487
00:56:14.952 --> 00:56:18.124
The other kind of story
I had is, like,
1488
00:56:18.124 --> 00:56:20.337
wanting to hide
and make myself small.
1489
00:56:20.337 --> 00:56:21.924
I think when
my life started to become
1490
00:56:21.924 --> 00:56:24.721
more important than my career,
I started to see--
1491
00:56:24.721 --> 00:56:27.059
to step back and have
the perspective
1492
00:56:27.059 --> 00:56:29.731
on the Brat Pack that it
allowed me to do
1493
00:56:29.731 --> 00:56:31.359
what we're talking about now,
to see it as
1494
00:56:31.359 --> 00:56:32.904
a as a good thing
as opposed to--
1495
00:56:32.904 --> 00:56:33.990
Right.
1496
00:56:33.990 --> 00:56:35.450
When I stopped
pressing so hard,
1497
00:56:35.450 --> 00:56:37.831
I think that shift,
which comes with age
1498
00:56:37.831 --> 00:56:40.586
and/or failure.
[laughs]
1499
00:56:40.586 --> 00:56:42.089
The event is the event.
1500
00:56:42.089 --> 00:56:45.680
What we make it mean
is the value
1501
00:56:45.680 --> 00:56:48.351
that it all of a sudden has.
Does that--
1502
00:56:48.351 --> 00:56:49.938
ANDREW: Yeah, I gave it
so much power.
1503
00:56:49.938 --> 00:56:51.692
You gave it so--
exactly.
1504
00:56:51.692 --> 00:56:53.278
When you really
look at that now,
1505
00:56:53.278 --> 00:56:54.948
we thought we were like so--
1506
00:56:54.948 --> 00:56:56.367
And, of course, we thought
we were like-- yeah.
1507
00:56:56.367 --> 00:56:58.998
So grown up.
But we were babies.
1508
00:56:58.998 --> 00:57:00.877
What?
[laughter]
1509
00:57:00.877 --> 00:57:03.591
REPORTER: OK.
- Andrew.
1510
00:57:03.591 --> 00:57:04.926
[laughter]
1511
00:57:04.926 --> 00:57:06.930
I mean...
1512
00:57:06.930 --> 00:57:09.936
[soft dramatic music]
1513
00:57:09.936 --> 00:57:12.776
♪ ♪
1514
00:57:12.776 --> 00:57:15.113
ANDREW: Things that happen
to us when we're young,
1515
00:57:15.113 --> 00:57:17.367
they're really intense,
and they go deep.
1516
00:57:17.367 --> 00:57:19.581
You know, had the same thing,
the Brat Pack--
1517
00:57:19.581 --> 00:57:20.917
if the Brat Pack happened
when we were 40,
1518
00:57:20.917 --> 00:57:23.213
we would have gone like,
"Whatever, dude."
1519
00:57:23.213 --> 00:57:25.050
You know, because you're young,
1520
00:57:25.050 --> 00:57:26.887
you just take it so personally
because you're not sure
1521
00:57:26.887 --> 00:57:28.557
of yourself yet, and so I think
1522
00:57:28.557 --> 00:57:30.812
that article tapped into
doubts and fears
1523
00:57:30.812 --> 00:57:32.397
that we had about ourselves.
1524
00:57:32.397 --> 00:57:35.112
My God, are we maybe
really undeserving of this?
1525
00:57:35.112 --> 00:57:37.784
Are we this or that, you know?
1526
00:57:37.784 --> 00:57:41.290
If it didn't touch something--
you know, it's that old saying,
1527
00:57:41.290 --> 00:57:43.169
"If it gets you, you got it."
1528
00:57:43.169 --> 00:57:44.714
If it didn't touch some fear
that we had
1529
00:57:44.714 --> 00:57:46.885
harbored about ourselves,
it wouldn't have mattered,
1530
00:57:46.885 --> 00:57:48.221
you know?
1531
00:57:48.221 --> 00:57:49.975
Was it touching truth?
1532
00:57:49.975 --> 00:57:52.981
It was touching fear,
and fear is a powerful thing.
1533
00:57:52.981 --> 00:57:56.154
♪ ♪
1534
00:57:56.154 --> 00:57:57.866
So who's in the Brat Pack then?
1535
00:57:57.866 --> 00:57:59.326
I would--
[laughs]
1536
00:57:59.326 --> 00:58:00.830
No, it's interesting.
1537
00:58:00.830 --> 00:58:01.999
I mean, it's not---
it's ridiculous.
1538
00:58:01.999 --> 00:58:03.209
But it's--
BRET: No, no.
1539
00:58:03.209 --> 00:58:05.422
It's true. It's--
- Because it's '80s culture.
1540
00:58:05.422 --> 00:58:06.758
It's you.
It's Judd Nelson.
1541
00:58:06.758 --> 00:58:08.094
It's Emilio.
1542
00:58:08.094 --> 00:58:09.556
I've been trying to answer
this question for years.
1543
00:58:09.556 --> 00:58:10.558
ALLY: Yeah.
1544
00:58:10.558 --> 00:58:12.520
The Brat Pack was just us.
1545
00:58:12.520 --> 00:58:13.898
People would say
Molly's in the Brat Pack.
1546
00:58:13.898 --> 00:58:15.317
- Really?
- Molly Ringwald.
1547
00:58:15.317 --> 00:58:19.241
I don't see Demi
or Ally being part of that.
1548
00:58:19.241 --> 00:58:21.204
Demi.
Ally.
1549
00:58:21.204 --> 00:58:24.418
- Jon Cryer.
- I am not in the Brat Pack.
1550
00:58:24.418 --> 00:58:26.214
What are
the Brat Pack movies?
1551
00:58:26.214 --> 00:58:27.592
I don't know.
1552
00:58:27.592 --> 00:58:28.969
Is Fast Times at
Ridgemont High Brat Pack?
1553
00:58:28.969 --> 00:58:31.307
No dice.
[laughter]
1554
00:58:31.307 --> 00:58:33.979
Is Young Guns
a Brat Pack movie? No.
1555
00:58:33.979 --> 00:58:35.315
MICHAEL: The Outsiders,
1556
00:58:35.315 --> 00:58:36.317
well, Emilio and Rob Lowe
were in that,
1557
00:58:36.317 --> 00:58:38.196
but is Tom Cruise
in the Brat Pack?
1558
00:58:38.196 --> 00:58:39.866
[Yello's "Oh Yeah"]
1559
00:58:39.866 --> 00:58:41.327
I've got to do
what's good for me.
1560
00:58:41.327 --> 00:58:43.081
Would you put Matt Dillon
in the Brat Pack?
1561
00:58:43.081 --> 00:58:45.085
- I don't know.
- Sean in the outer ring.
1562
00:58:45.085 --> 00:58:46.379
Relax.
1563
00:58:46.379 --> 00:58:48.091
Well, you were probably
the center of the nucleus
1564
00:58:48.091 --> 00:58:49.594
because of the article.
1565
00:58:49.594 --> 00:58:50.680
And then you were
in the two movies.
1566
00:58:50.680 --> 00:58:52.057
But then so was Judd.
1567
00:58:52.057 --> 00:58:54.521
Judd Nelson,
Ally Sheedy, Molly Ringwald,
1568
00:58:54.521 --> 00:58:58.111
Emilio Estevez, Rob Lowe, um...
1569
00:58:58.111 --> 00:58:59.572
- Who are we forgetting?
- Demi Moore.
1570
00:58:59.572 --> 00:59:01.242
- Demi Moore and me.
- And you.
1571
00:59:01.242 --> 00:59:03.037
And--
[laughs]
1572
00:59:03.037 --> 00:59:05.835
And that it didn't really exist
doesn't matter.
1573
00:59:05.835 --> 00:59:09.341
♪ ♪
1574
00:59:09.341 --> 00:59:12.306
All right,
we are headed over here
1575
00:59:12.306 --> 00:59:14.143
to see Howie Deutch,
who directed
1576
00:59:14.143 --> 00:59:16.565
a movie called Pretty in Pink.
1577
00:59:16.565 --> 00:59:18.610
We're passing all
the hikers going up in--
1578
00:59:18.610 --> 00:59:20.531
up for their Sunday hikes.
1579
00:59:20.531 --> 00:59:22.409
God, look at them all.
1580
00:59:22.409 --> 00:59:24.288
LA, baby.
1581
00:59:24.288 --> 00:59:26.125
HOWIE: Andrew McCarthy.
- Howie.
1582
00:59:26.125 --> 00:59:28.004
HOWIE: Oh, my gosh.
- [laughs]
1583
00:59:28.004 --> 00:59:29.131
How are you?
1584
00:59:29.131 --> 00:59:30.175
[laughs]
Good.
1585
00:59:30.175 --> 00:59:31.344
HOWIE: 30 years.
1586
00:59:31.344 --> 00:59:32.597
ANDREW: That's what
I was just saying.
1587
00:59:32.597 --> 00:59:34.141
I think it's, like, 30 years.
1588
00:59:34.141 --> 00:59:35.310
HOWIE: You're gonna be
out of focus.
1589
00:59:35.310 --> 00:59:36.605
ANDREW: Come here.
HOWIE: How are you?
1590
00:59:36.605 --> 00:59:38.066
ANDREW: [laughs]
Good. How are you?
1591
00:59:38.066 --> 00:59:39.151
Great to see you.
ANDREW: Good to see you.
1592
00:59:39.151 --> 00:59:40.195
It's cool that
you're doing this.
1593
00:59:40.195 --> 00:59:41.364
ANDREW:
Yeah, well, we'll see.
1594
00:59:41.364 --> 00:59:43.409
[laughter]
1595
00:59:43.409 --> 00:59:46.374
So the Brat Pack--
what is it about that label?
1596
00:59:46.374 --> 00:59:48.754
I don't know.
I mean, the Brat Pack--
1597
00:59:48.754 --> 00:59:50.090
I was on the outside
of all that.
1598
00:59:50.090 --> 00:59:52.469
- Yeah.
- But my wife, Lea, wasn't.
1599
00:59:52.469 --> 00:59:55.768
And a lot of other actors,
like yourself, weren't.
1600
00:59:55.768 --> 00:59:59.901
And I feel like that is,
like, the headline sometimes
1601
00:59:59.901 --> 01:00:01.237
that they're stuck with.
1602
01:00:01.237 --> 01:00:03.282
That's the reason
I want to do it, why 35--
1603
01:00:03.282 --> 01:00:05.203
how many years later?
HOWIE: Well, but ask yourself.
1604
01:00:05.203 --> 01:00:07.792
Why don't you want
to be included in that?
1605
01:00:07.792 --> 01:00:11.716
That's part of why we're
doing this interview, I think,
1606
01:00:11.716 --> 01:00:13.554
this doc.
- Those movies--
1607
01:00:13.554 --> 01:00:15.098
and our movie
included in that--
1608
01:00:15.098 --> 01:00:17.687
represent a moment
for a certain generation
1609
01:00:17.687 --> 01:00:18.981
of people that is their youth.
1610
01:00:18.981 --> 01:00:20.860
And they're like,
"I feel just like that girl.
1611
01:00:20.860 --> 01:00:22.320
That's me."
1612
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:23.782
And taking ownership
like that in movies--
1613
01:00:23.782 --> 01:00:25.452
that's why movies
are so powerful
1614
01:00:25.452 --> 01:00:27.414
because people can identify
and connect
1615
01:00:27.414 --> 01:00:28.667
and they're not
so alone anymore.
1616
01:00:28.667 --> 01:00:30.838
I hated the Brat Pack
for decades
1617
01:00:30.838 --> 01:00:32.758
because of my own defensiveness
of, I'm not a brat.
1618
01:00:32.758 --> 01:00:35.514
But let me look at,
what does the Brat Pack mean
1619
01:00:35.514 --> 01:00:39.354
to me then
and then what does it mean now.
1620
01:00:39.354 --> 01:00:42.152
And when I--
it finally kind of dawned
1621
01:00:42.152 --> 01:00:46.745
on me that maybe there's bounty
in that and not just brats.
1622
01:00:46.745 --> 01:00:48.999
Everybody's haunted
by something like that.
1623
01:00:48.999 --> 01:00:54.802
And sometimes, it makes you
do better work, you know,
1624
01:00:54.802 --> 01:00:56.347
and sometimes not.
1625
01:00:56.347 --> 01:00:59.019
[door rings]
BLANE: Jesus.
1626
01:00:59.019 --> 01:01:02.025
[soft dramatic music]
1627
01:01:02.025 --> 01:01:06.826
♪ ♪
1628
01:01:06.826 --> 01:01:08.454
HOWIE: And I remember
every time we were
1629
01:01:08.454 --> 01:01:12.170
about to do a scene,
Andrew, you would say to me,
1630
01:01:12.170 --> 01:01:13.507
"OK, tense up."
1631
01:01:13.507 --> 01:01:14.926
Like, that was--
- I do remember that.
1632
01:01:14.926 --> 01:01:16.345
Jesus, I forgot.
- Yeah, you'd say, tense up.
1633
01:01:16.345 --> 01:01:17.723
And I'd laugh.
1634
01:01:17.723 --> 01:01:18.934
And it relaxed me,
actually,
1635
01:01:18.934 --> 01:01:21.313
'cause I thought
you actually were nervous
1636
01:01:21.313 --> 01:01:23.735
and that it helped, the humor.
1637
01:01:23.735 --> 01:01:25.405
And action.
1638
01:01:25.405 --> 01:01:26.908
ANDREW: So the end of
Pretty in Pink--
1639
01:01:26.908 --> 01:01:29.914
we changed the whole ending.
You know better than me.
1640
01:01:29.914 --> 01:01:31.793
HOWIE: The test screening
was a disaster.
1641
01:01:31.793 --> 01:01:33.129
The original ending
was she goes with John.
1642
01:01:33.129 --> 01:01:34.674
You have a date,
1643
01:01:34.674 --> 01:01:36.553
and they walk into
the dance circle,
1644
01:01:36.553 --> 01:01:37.722
and they start to dance,
1645
01:01:37.722 --> 01:01:39.391
and it becomes
a swirl of pink,
1646
01:01:39.391 --> 01:01:40.686
and it's over.
1647
01:01:40.686 --> 01:01:43.107
And booing like
I've never heard in my life--
1648
01:01:43.107 --> 01:01:45.613
screaming, booing,
you know, yelling,
1649
01:01:45.613 --> 01:01:48.577
throwing things.
It was like, what?
1650
01:01:48.577 --> 01:01:52.042
And that was it.
It was just a disaster.
1651
01:01:52.042 --> 01:01:54.631
And they gave us one day
to shoot all of it,
1652
01:01:54.631 --> 01:01:56.676
which you know,
which is insane,
1653
01:01:56.676 --> 01:01:57.928
but that's what they did.
1654
01:01:57.928 --> 01:01:59.348
And you had to do it
on a stage even though--
1655
01:01:59.348 --> 01:02:00.934
ANDREW: Yeah, yeah.
We did it on the stage.
1656
01:02:00.934 --> 01:02:02.354
You were
in New York shooting.
1657
01:02:02.354 --> 01:02:03.857
Yeah, I was in New York
doing a play,
1658
01:02:03.857 --> 01:02:06.278
and my head was shaved because
I was playing a marine,
1659
01:02:06.278 --> 01:02:09.201
so they had to make me a wig,
and it was such a bad wig.
1660
01:02:09.201 --> 01:02:11.246
I always joked that
if they'd known
1661
01:02:11.246 --> 01:02:13.042
that we'd still be talking
about it 35 years later,
1662
01:02:13.042 --> 01:02:14.503
they would have paid
for a better wig.
1663
01:02:14.503 --> 01:02:15.923
[laughs]
ANDREW: It was a terrible wig,
1664
01:02:15.923 --> 01:02:18.219
and it just sat on my head
like some bird's nest
1665
01:02:18.219 --> 01:02:20.557
and gave me
such a forlorn and sad look.
1666
01:02:20.557 --> 01:02:23.104
So all I had to do was go up
to Molly and say, you know,
1667
01:02:23.104 --> 01:02:24.857
"I love you,"
or whatever the line was.
1668
01:02:24.857 --> 01:02:26.276
I love you.
1669
01:02:26.276 --> 01:02:27.530
ANDREW: I just looked so sad
1670
01:02:27.530 --> 01:02:29.534
that it did
all the acting for me.
1671
01:02:29.534 --> 01:02:31.203
Always.
1672
01:02:31.203 --> 01:02:33.124
ANDREW: You know, our youth
is there for us to look at.
1673
01:02:33.124 --> 01:02:34.794
You know,
and how has it evolved
1674
01:02:34.794 --> 01:02:36.673
then over the years,
your relationship
1675
01:02:36.673 --> 01:02:38.050
to early success?
1676
01:02:38.050 --> 01:02:39.804
Because early success
is something else.
1677
01:02:39.804 --> 01:02:41.390
It's like, you know,
Tennessee Williams wrote
1678
01:02:41.390 --> 01:02:42.935
a great article called
1679
01:02:42.935 --> 01:02:45.189
"The Catastrophe of Success"
1680
01:02:45.189 --> 01:02:47.695
when Glass Menagerie
was successful.
1681
01:02:47.695 --> 01:02:49.322
And it just, like,
blew his whole life up.
1682
01:02:49.322 --> 01:02:53.665
It's fortunate to have it,
but it's also a struggle
1683
01:02:53.665 --> 01:02:57.005
to escape being pigeonholed
into just
1684
01:02:57.005 --> 01:02:59.134
that category and that arena.
1685
01:02:59.134 --> 01:03:00.929
There's an inexplicable thing
1686
01:03:00.929 --> 01:03:03.685
that happens when something
really cooks and works
1687
01:03:03.685 --> 01:03:05.271
like the movie we did.
1688
01:03:05.271 --> 01:03:07.192
And it's funny,
trying to get back
1689
01:03:07.192 --> 01:03:09.404
to doing something--
1690
01:03:09.404 --> 01:03:11.618
sometimes, a little knowledge
is dangerous.
1691
01:03:11.618 --> 01:03:14.080
That innocence is--
yeah, we spend a lot of time
1692
01:03:14.080 --> 01:03:15.793
trying to get back to that.
[laughs]
1693
01:03:15.793 --> 01:03:17.630
HOWIE: Yeah, because
you're using more of yourself.
1694
01:03:17.630 --> 01:03:20.092
Honesty is something
you really can't fake.
1695
01:03:20.092 --> 01:03:22.263
FEE: This is Fee Waybill
for MTV here
1696
01:03:22.263 --> 01:03:24.769
at the premiere for
Pretty in Pink
1697
01:03:24.769 --> 01:03:27.315
at the lovely
Mann's Chinese Theater.
1698
01:03:27.315 --> 01:03:29.529
My mother was
a reporter for The LA Times,
1699
01:03:29.529 --> 01:03:33.954
and she also often
covered movie premieres.
1700
01:03:33.954 --> 01:03:38.254
I remember going with her to
the Pretty in Pink premiere
1701
01:03:38.254 --> 01:03:40.258
and walking up the red carpet,
1702
01:03:40.258 --> 01:03:42.680
and I got to shake
John Hughes' hand.
1703
01:03:42.680 --> 01:03:45.309
Howie Deutch,
Mr. John Hughes--
1704
01:03:45.309 --> 01:03:46.729
respectively,
the director of the film
1705
01:03:46.729 --> 01:03:48.190
and the producer
and writer of the film.
1706
01:03:48.190 --> 01:03:49.861
ANDREW: That same night
when we were in that room
1707
01:03:49.861 --> 01:03:51.656
together, as the credits
started to roll, I got up...
1708
01:03:51.656 --> 01:03:53.325
MICHAEL: Yes, you got drunk.
1709
01:03:53.325 --> 01:03:54.829
And went across the street
to the Hamburger Hamlet...
1710
01:03:54.829 --> 01:03:56.164
MICHAEL: Hamburger Hamlet.
ANDREW: And got drunk.
1711
01:03:56.164 --> 01:03:57.543
I could not sit in that room.
1712
01:03:57.543 --> 01:03:59.087
I just found that
just so nerve-wracking.
1713
01:03:59.087 --> 01:04:01.425
Well, I've seen the video
of-- of you
1714
01:04:01.425 --> 01:04:03.387
in the-- you and Spader--
- Oh, my God.
1715
01:04:03.387 --> 01:04:04.724
Yeah, that lives on.
1716
01:04:04.724 --> 01:04:06.686
- At the after party. Yes.
- I just look at that.
1717
01:04:06.686 --> 01:04:08.732
And I just-- I'm just so lost.
1718
01:04:08.732 --> 01:04:11.361
Andrew McCarthy
and James Spader.
1719
01:04:11.361 --> 01:04:13.533
James is the not-so-good guy.
1720
01:04:13.533 --> 01:04:15.036
ANDREW:
So I just look at that,
1721
01:04:15.036 --> 01:04:16.496
And I go, "Oh, my God, I was
just so young, and like--"
1722
01:04:16.496 --> 01:04:17.541
You were
a living, breathing...
1723
01:04:17.541 --> 01:04:18.585
Ill-equipped.
1724
01:04:18.585 --> 01:04:19.587
MICHAEL:
Public service announcement.
1725
01:04:19.587 --> 01:04:21.089
[laughter]
1726
01:04:21.089 --> 01:04:22.300
Kids, don't do this.
Yeah.
1727
01:04:22.300 --> 01:04:23.595
But-- and yet,
at that moment,
1728
01:04:23.595 --> 01:04:25.557
I am the aspirational--
- 100%.
1729
01:04:25.557 --> 01:04:27.185
You know?
1730
01:04:27.185 --> 01:04:29.105
Andrew, did you actually
go to your high school prom?
1731
01:04:29.105 --> 01:04:30.984
- No.
- No?
1732
01:04:30.984 --> 01:04:32.947
Why not?
1733
01:04:32.947 --> 01:04:34.700
I couldn't get a date.
1734
01:04:34.700 --> 01:04:39.459
That night encapsulated
my entire '80s career, really--
1735
01:04:39.459 --> 01:04:41.965
thrilled, yet terrified,
the ambition,
1736
01:04:41.965 --> 01:04:43.927
and yet the wanting to run,
1737
01:04:43.927 --> 01:04:46.014
and then getting clouded
by alcohol.
1738
01:04:46.014 --> 01:04:47.851
That sort of--
that night was the '80s for me.
1739
01:04:47.851 --> 01:04:49.939
[laughs]
MICHAEL: Yeah.
1740
01:04:49.939 --> 01:04:51.526
You know?
1741
01:04:51.526 --> 01:04:54.155
Party at the Palace
continues after these messages.
1742
01:04:54.155 --> 01:04:57.538
♪ ♪
1743
01:04:57.538 --> 01:05:00.627
JEANNIE: [laughs]
Herb, he's mine now.
1744
01:05:00.627 --> 01:05:01.754
Lay off.
He's mine.
1745
01:05:01.754 --> 01:05:03.090
[laughs]
HERB: Jeannie?
1746
01:05:03.090 --> 01:05:05.721
JEANNIE: Yes?
HERB: Back off before we start.
1747
01:05:05.721 --> 01:05:10.856
♪ ♪
1748
01:05:10.856 --> 01:05:12.191
Hey, could I get
a cheeseburger
1749
01:05:12.191 --> 01:05:14.697
with lettuce, tomato, onion,
and pickle?
1750
01:05:18.328 --> 01:05:20.332
Oh, we're just doing
this documentary.
1751
01:05:22.963 --> 01:05:24.800
It's about--
that's a good question.
1752
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:27.138
It's about looking for people.
[laughs]
1753
01:05:27.138 --> 01:05:29.100
Oh, yeah?
1754
01:05:29.100 --> 01:05:30.854
It's about
a group of actors
1755
01:05:30.854 --> 01:05:32.273
from the '80s
called the Brat Pack.
1756
01:05:32.273 --> 01:05:33.275
Do you know who they were?
1757
01:05:34.444 --> 01:05:35.781
The Brat Pack.
You ever hear of that?
1758
01:05:38.285 --> 01:05:40.247
Yeah, there you go.
1759
01:05:41.374 --> 01:05:43.253
Ancient history.
Thanks, man.
1760
01:05:44.632 --> 01:05:48.515
♪ ♪
1761
01:05:48.515 --> 01:05:50.519
These people I don't know
and hadn't seen
1762
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:53.775
in 30-odd years, we all
share this monumental moment
1763
01:05:53.775 --> 01:05:55.529
in our lives together
and all had
1764
01:05:55.529 --> 01:05:57.406
exact similar reactions to it.
1765
01:05:57.406 --> 01:05:59.703
It just lets you know
why people need community
1766
01:05:59.703 --> 01:06:01.624
and why people
don't live isolated.
1767
01:06:01.624 --> 01:06:04.713
Because knowing
that everyone else
1768
01:06:04.713 --> 01:06:07.093
went through the same thing
somehow is, you know...
1769
01:06:07.093 --> 01:06:10.266
♪ ♪
1770
01:06:10.266 --> 01:06:12.395
That's good.
1771
01:06:12.395 --> 01:06:15.527
♪ ♪
1772
01:06:15.527 --> 01:06:18.741
So I'm still trying
to pin down Judd,
1773
01:06:18.741 --> 01:06:22.123
and I think this is
my third or fourth time
1774
01:06:22.123 --> 01:06:24.962
trying to meet up with Rob.
1775
01:06:24.962 --> 01:06:26.924
When we were young,
Rob and I were not close.
1776
01:06:26.924 --> 01:06:29.805
I think we were--
we were fairly competitive.
1777
01:06:29.805 --> 01:06:32.519
I was, like, this
New York, serious actor--
1778
01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:34.022
or wanting to be.
1779
01:06:34.022 --> 01:06:37.529
And Rob was the gorgeous
LA, you know,
1780
01:06:37.529 --> 01:06:38.948
young movie star.
1781
01:06:38.948 --> 01:06:40.911
And we each had
our little niche.
1782
01:06:40.911 --> 01:06:42.873
I should probably keep
my hands on the wheel here.
1783
01:06:42.873 --> 01:06:46.213
[laughs]
Hey. Hey.
1784
01:06:46.213 --> 01:06:48.091
ROB: Hey, there he is.
ANDREW: [laughs]
1785
01:06:48.091 --> 01:06:50.221
ROB: God, when was the
last time I actually saw you?
1786
01:06:50.221 --> 01:06:52.433
ANDREW: 30 years ago.
ROB: No, it can't be.
1787
01:06:52.433 --> 01:06:56.441
I think.
[laughter]
1788
01:06:56.441 --> 01:06:58.111
Jonathan, this is my mom.
1789
01:07:02.161 --> 01:07:04.332
Uh, very nice to meet you,
Mrs. Burroughs.
1790
01:07:05.585 --> 01:07:07.046
Hello.
Hello.
1791
01:07:07.046 --> 01:07:09.342
ROB: We were so lucky to be
in the right place
1792
01:07:09.342 --> 01:07:12.557
at the right time
as the movie business
1793
01:07:12.557 --> 01:07:15.354
was beginning the transition
1794
01:07:15.354 --> 01:07:18.277
to where it landed
and still exists,
1795
01:07:18.277 --> 01:07:22.619
which is movies made
almost exclusively for 18-
1796
01:07:22.619 --> 01:07:24.497
to 20-year-olds.
1797
01:07:24.497 --> 01:07:26.669
I mean,
every summer movie that's out
1798
01:07:26.669 --> 01:07:28.965
is geared towards
that audience.
1799
01:07:28.965 --> 01:07:30.259
It wasn't always like that.
1800
01:07:30.259 --> 01:07:33.641
But we were there
at a time when that began.
1801
01:07:33.641 --> 01:07:35.520
Maybe we had something to do
with it,
1802
01:07:35.520 --> 01:07:37.649
which would either be
the good news or the bad news.
1803
01:07:37.649 --> 01:07:40.613
But not only being
in the Brat Pack,
1804
01:07:40.613 --> 01:07:43.703
but being around
at that time not only
1805
01:07:43.703 --> 01:07:45.122
changed all of our lives.
1806
01:07:45.122 --> 01:07:47.919
It changed
what entertainment is.
1807
01:07:47.919 --> 01:07:49.757
It's so weird to talk about
this because we're giving--
1808
01:07:49.757 --> 01:07:51.594
because we're focusing on it,
and I'm focusing
1809
01:07:51.594 --> 01:07:52.888
on making a movie,
but it's giving it
1810
01:07:52.888 --> 01:07:54.683
such import, you know?
1811
01:07:54.683 --> 01:07:56.311
But that's the way it is when
you're focusing on anything.
1812
01:07:56.311 --> 01:07:57.564
It's--
ROB: Yes.
1813
01:07:57.564 --> 01:07:58.941
And when you--
you have to take a step back.
1814
01:07:58.941 --> 01:08:00.152
Well, any time there's
a documentary about anything,
1815
01:08:00.152 --> 01:08:01.572
it's very important.
- [laughs]
1816
01:08:01.572 --> 01:08:02.616
But you're always been
very good
1817
01:08:02.616 --> 01:08:04.202
at kind of going,
"Dude, it's not,
1818
01:08:04.202 --> 01:08:05.496
you know, curing cancer.
It's the Brat Pack."
1819
01:08:05.496 --> 01:08:06.749
[laughs]
Yes.
1820
01:08:06.749 --> 01:08:07.918
And do you think
it affected your career
1821
01:08:07.918 --> 01:08:09.337
on the immediate level?
1822
01:08:09.337 --> 01:08:12.134
There's always gonna be
some perception that bumps up
1823
01:08:12.134 --> 01:08:14.556
against how you see yourself
1824
01:08:14.556 --> 01:08:16.434
and what you think
you can do as an actor.
1825
01:08:16.434 --> 01:08:18.105
And that never changes,
I don't think.
1826
01:08:18.105 --> 01:08:19.232
Did you like
the label at first?
1827
01:08:19.232 --> 01:08:20.777
I mean, I don't recall
anyone liked it.
1828
01:08:20.777 --> 01:08:22.029
No one liked it.
1829
01:08:22.029 --> 01:08:25.662
And look, I don't want
to come off seeming
1830
01:08:25.662 --> 01:08:30.379
like I'm so Pollyanna
that I don't realize,
1831
01:08:30.379 --> 01:08:34.638
or didn't know at the time,
what a fucking disaster
1832
01:08:34.638 --> 01:08:37.936
and how mean-spirited
and what an attempt that was
1833
01:08:37.936 --> 01:08:40.900
to minimize all of our talents.
I get why it happened.
1834
01:08:40.900 --> 01:08:42.486
There were just too many of us.
1835
01:08:42.486 --> 01:08:44.700
So there had to be
a catch-all name,
1836
01:08:44.700 --> 01:08:45.785
and Brat Pack is a good name.
1837
01:08:45.785 --> 01:08:48.916
These young actors
and these movies
1838
01:08:48.916 --> 01:08:51.630
about these young actors
and these people making them
1839
01:08:51.630 --> 01:08:53.509
like John Hughes and so forth,
1840
01:08:53.509 --> 01:08:56.932
are gonna start to lead
the business in a way
1841
01:08:56.932 --> 01:08:59.020
where there are gonna be
TV shows like Glee.
1842
01:08:59.020 --> 01:09:01.942
And there's going to be--
- I mean, look at Friends.
1843
01:09:01.942 --> 01:09:03.529
The CW.
1844
01:09:03.529 --> 01:09:04.865
There's gonna be
all of these things
1845
01:09:04.865 --> 01:09:06.619
that we now take for granted--
1846
01:09:06.619 --> 01:09:08.205
don't happen
without the Brat Pack.
1847
01:09:08.205 --> 01:09:10.000
They just don't.
- I had never thought
1848
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:13.883
of it like that,
to give it such--
1849
01:09:13.883 --> 01:09:17.682
to be such a linchpin toward
the pivot in popular
1850
01:09:17.682 --> 01:09:19.143
movie culture.
- Yeah.
1851
01:09:19.143 --> 01:09:21.189
I guess I'm just too sort
of shame-based to sort of--
1852
01:09:21.189 --> 01:09:22.567
- [laughs]
- Really.
1853
01:09:22.567 --> 01:09:24.571
To, like-- I would just go,
"Oh, no, no, no, no, no."
1854
01:09:24.571 --> 01:09:27.159
And not be able to take it
in in a certain way,
1855
01:09:27.159 --> 01:09:28.579
which is one of your gifts,
that you've
1856
01:09:28.579 --> 01:09:30.542
always been able to do that.
- I get this all the time.
1857
01:09:30.542 --> 01:09:33.046
It's like, "Oh, my God,
I love those movies. Oh.
1858
01:09:33.046 --> 01:09:35.092
God, I was a big
Andrew McCarthy guy."
1859
01:09:35.092 --> 01:09:37.137
And I'm like--
- [laughs]
1860
01:09:37.137 --> 01:09:38.933
- What the fuck?
- I know.
1861
01:09:38.933 --> 01:09:41.062
But that's because they
treat us like we're not real.
1862
01:09:41.062 --> 01:09:42.273
I get all that all the time.
1863
01:09:42.273 --> 01:09:44.235
It's like,
"Oh, Rob was so good."
1864
01:09:44.235 --> 01:09:45.822
I'm like, "Dude, no
you're talking to Andrew."
1865
01:09:45.822 --> 01:09:47.534
ROB: Hi, hello?
- [laughs]
1866
01:09:47.534 --> 01:09:50.330
Ah, forgive me
for not getting intimate.
1867
01:09:50.330 --> 01:09:53.044
Here, it's a long ride.
1868
01:09:53.044 --> 01:09:55.132
- You shouldn't have.
- I know.
1869
01:09:55.132 --> 01:09:56.467
It was like being in a group.
1870
01:09:56.467 --> 01:09:58.013
I mean, I'm not gonna say
we were the Beatles
1871
01:09:58.013 --> 01:09:59.600
or anything,
but I gotta tell you,
1872
01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:03.064
there were some times where
the frenzy around it
1873
01:10:03.064 --> 01:10:06.070
was certainly up there with
anything any of those guys did.
1874
01:10:06.070 --> 01:10:07.574
Well, we didn't fill
Shea Stadium,
1875
01:10:07.574 --> 01:10:09.201
but I mean, there were moments.
[laughs]
1876
01:10:09.201 --> 01:10:12.542
We could have.
1985, I think we could have.
1877
01:10:12.542 --> 01:10:16.257
- [laughs]
- It was fun, excitement.
1878
01:10:16.257 --> 01:10:18.428
The world is your oyster.
1879
01:10:18.428 --> 01:10:21.852
You can't believe
what's happening.
1880
01:10:21.852 --> 01:10:23.396
Confusion.
1881
01:10:23.396 --> 01:10:25.526
And it was at the height
of the Brat Pack,
1882
01:10:25.526 --> 01:10:29.660
and it was super unbelievable.
1883
01:10:29.660 --> 01:10:31.245
Agreed.
And--
1884
01:10:31.245 --> 01:10:32.582
ROB: [laughs]
- And--
1885
01:10:32.582 --> 01:10:33.876
I don't believe you one--
ANDREW: Even for me.
1886
01:10:33.876 --> 01:10:35.337
No, but even for me, agreed.
1887
01:10:35.337 --> 01:10:36.757
Like, begrudgingly,
like, this is awesome.
1888
01:10:36.757 --> 01:10:37.884
[laughs]
- OK, good.
1889
01:10:37.884 --> 01:10:39.136
OK, yeah.
Begrudging, yes.
1890
01:10:39.136 --> 01:10:40.723
Yeah, yeah.
- All right.
1891
01:10:40.723 --> 01:10:42.101
What's your memory of
the night at Sammy's house?
1892
01:10:42.101 --> 01:10:43.521
- That happened, right?
- That--
1893
01:10:43.521 --> 01:10:44.648
[laughs].
Right?
1894
01:10:44.648 --> 01:10:46.025
So what's your recollection?
1895
01:10:46.025 --> 01:10:47.319
- It started at Spago.
- Yeah.
1896
01:10:47.319 --> 01:10:48.614
Right?
1897
01:10:48.614 --> 01:10:49.658
ANDREW: You asked me
to come out,
1898
01:10:49.658 --> 01:10:50.660
and I was like, "Really?"
1899
01:10:50.660 --> 01:10:52.162
We were shooting
St. Elmo's Fire.
1900
01:10:52.162 --> 01:10:53.582
And, like, I remember
following you over the hill.
1901
01:10:53.582 --> 01:10:54.876
And I'm like, "Where's Spago?"
1902
01:10:54.876 --> 01:10:56.462
You're like, "Follow me."
- Follow me, kid.
1903
01:10:56.462 --> 01:10:57.924
- Yeah, exactly.
- Idiot.
1904
01:10:57.924 --> 01:10:59.385
I just remember sitting down
next to the person being--
1905
01:10:59.385 --> 01:11:00.596
this is Liza.
1906
01:11:00.596 --> 01:11:01.640
And I went,
"I'll have a double vodka."
1907
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:02.934
[laughter]
1908
01:11:02.934 --> 01:11:04.103
Yeah you didn't know
Liza Minnelli
1909
01:11:04.103 --> 01:11:05.439
was gonna be there.
- I'm sorry?
1910
01:11:05.439 --> 01:11:07.151
ANDREW: No idea. And it was--
she was lovely.
1911
01:11:07.151 --> 01:11:08.696
The best.
ANDREW: She was lovely.
1912
01:11:08.696 --> 01:11:11.075
And-- but there came
a time where
1913
01:11:11.075 --> 01:11:13.664
there's that moment where
it's clear the evening is over,
1914
01:11:13.664 --> 01:11:15.626
and I think we were literally
getting up out of our seats.
1915
01:11:15.626 --> 01:11:18.966
You went,
"Let's go to Sammy's."
1916
01:11:18.966 --> 01:11:22.014
So we follow Liza Minnelli
to Sammy Davis Jr.'s house.
1917
01:11:22.014 --> 01:11:23.183
I mean,
who's not gonna do that?
1918
01:11:23.183 --> 01:11:24.351
ANDREW:
Right, and you were pretty--
1919
01:11:24.351 --> 01:11:25.730
Hi. Come on in.
1920
01:11:25.730 --> 01:11:27.399
ANDREW: Cool and savvy
and been to some things.
1921
01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:29.028
And even you were just like,
"Holy shit."
1922
01:11:29.028 --> 01:11:30.656
- Holy shit.
- He was so gracious.
1923
01:11:30.656 --> 01:11:31.784
He was playing--
he was long sober,
1924
01:11:31.784 --> 01:11:33.077
but he was playing bartender,
1925
01:11:33.077 --> 01:11:34.455
and I was getting
drunker and drunker.
1926
01:11:34.455 --> 01:11:36.334
and me and Sammy were,
like, splitting cigarettes,
1927
01:11:36.334 --> 01:11:38.421
and he's like,
"I got my eye on you cats.
1928
01:11:38.421 --> 01:11:40.175
I love what you're doing."
- "I love what you do."
1929
01:11:40.175 --> 01:11:41.804
"Keep it up."
You know?
1930
01:11:41.804 --> 01:11:43.516
And it's the only time,
in my experience,
1931
01:11:43.516 --> 01:11:45.393
that the Brat Pack
met the Rat Pack.
1932
01:11:45.393 --> 01:11:48.066
ROB: That is when the
Brat Pack met the Rat Pack.
1933
01:11:48.066 --> 01:11:50.863
When I think of the Brat Pack,
I think of nights like that
1934
01:11:50.863 --> 01:11:53.536
because that stuff
routinely happened,
1935
01:11:53.536 --> 01:11:57.042
as it does
when you were in that moment.
1936
01:11:57.042 --> 01:12:01.175
And you see that moment
recycles every generation
1937
01:12:01.175 --> 01:12:03.597
with different people,
with different names,
1938
01:12:03.597 --> 01:12:05.392
and different places,
but it's the same story.
1939
01:12:05.392 --> 01:12:07.187
Someone is having that moment.
1940
01:12:07.187 --> 01:12:09.609
It can fuck you up,
or it can be fun,
1941
01:12:09.609 --> 01:12:11.404
or it can be all of the above.
1942
01:12:11.404 --> 01:12:15.997
But there are very few people
that are ever in a place
1943
01:12:15.997 --> 01:12:17.917
to go through that moment.
1944
01:12:17.917 --> 01:12:19.253
And yet,
there always will be people
1945
01:12:19.253 --> 01:12:21.465
who will go through that moment
every generation.
1946
01:12:21.465 --> 01:12:24.890
And it always pains me when
I see some of the other folks
1947
01:12:24.890 --> 01:12:28.564
who don't realize how much love
1948
01:12:28.564 --> 01:12:31.277
is infused into the Brat Pack,
1949
01:12:31.277 --> 01:12:33.072
and it makes me sad for them.
1950
01:12:33.072 --> 01:12:34.618
ANDREW: This is what
I've come to realize.
1951
01:12:34.618 --> 01:12:37.497
There's so much goodwill there.
1952
01:12:37.497 --> 01:12:39.168
By the way,
it's nothing but goodwill...
1953
01:12:39.168 --> 01:12:40.963
- Yeah.
- Now.
1954
01:12:40.963 --> 01:12:42.592
Where does it end,
the Brat Pack?
1955
01:12:42.592 --> 01:12:44.596
I mean, does it follow us
to the end?
1956
01:12:44.596 --> 01:12:46.015
It'll for sure.
1957
01:12:46.015 --> 01:12:47.894
I mean, it should.
1958
01:12:52.027 --> 01:12:54.950
ANDREW: The great surprise for
me has been how much affection
1959
01:12:54.950 --> 01:12:56.327
we all seem to have
for each other now
1960
01:12:56.327 --> 01:12:58.749
in a way that
we didn't then, and,
1961
01:12:58.749 --> 01:13:00.753
you know,
the people I've talked to.
1962
01:13:00.753 --> 01:13:03.174
And so that's been
really nice to kind of--
1963
01:13:03.174 --> 01:13:05.387
there's a lightness
that comes with it now
1964
01:13:05.387 --> 01:13:07.182
that did not exist back then.
1965
01:13:07.182 --> 01:13:09.061
Because back then,
we were all just pressurized,
1966
01:13:09.061 --> 01:13:10.438
and trying to figure out
what to do,
1967
01:13:10.438 --> 01:13:11.942
and trying to have a career,
and like, oh, my God,
1968
01:13:11.942 --> 01:13:13.486
something just happened,
and they're calling us
1969
01:13:13.486 --> 01:13:16.409
this negative name,
and, oh, shit, what do I do?
1970
01:13:16.409 --> 01:13:19.123
Now it's all just like--
[laughs]
1971
01:13:19.123 --> 01:13:21.545
You know, who cares?
1972
01:13:21.545 --> 01:13:24.300
And if you do still care,
it's--
1973
01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:33.109
So if you had told me
1974
01:13:33.109 --> 01:13:35.155
10, 20, 30 years ago,
1975
01:13:35.155 --> 01:13:37.367
I'd be walking up to see
David Blum's apartment,
1976
01:13:37.367 --> 01:13:39.706
the writer of
the "Brat Pack" article,
1977
01:13:39.706 --> 01:13:42.044
I would have said,
"You're fucking crazy."
1978
01:13:42.044 --> 01:13:44.883
Let's see what happens.
David?
1979
01:13:44.883 --> 01:13:47.095
[laughs]
Hi.
1980
01:13:47.095 --> 01:13:48.431
- How are you?
- Hi.
1981
01:13:48.431 --> 01:13:50.060
And how are you?
- Good to meet you...
1982
01:13:50.060 --> 01:13:51.312
Nice to meet you.
1983
01:13:51.312 --> 01:13:52.523
- At long last.
- Yeah.
1984
01:13:52.523 --> 01:13:53.734
- I'm Dave.
- I'm Adrian.
1985
01:13:53.734 --> 01:13:55.070
That's Adrian.
1986
01:13:55.070 --> 01:13:56.573
I asked you this the other day,
but I--
1987
01:13:56.573 --> 01:13:59.078
I was rushing.
Do you prefer David or Dave?
1988
01:13:59.078 --> 01:14:00.163
- Dave.
- Dave.
1989
01:14:00.163 --> 01:14:04.380
OK, Dave.
So thank you. Thank you.
1990
01:14:04.380 --> 01:14:07.010
Was it a pitch to go do
a thing on Emilio?
1991
01:14:07.010 --> 01:14:08.806
Or did the mag-- were you
freelancing in New York?
1992
01:14:08.806 --> 01:14:10.058
Or were you--
- No.
1993
01:14:10.058 --> 01:14:13.649
I was on a contract
at New York Magazine,
1994
01:14:13.649 --> 01:14:17.489
and I had to do eight stories
a year, something like that.
1995
01:14:17.489 --> 01:14:19.076
And so it was just
gonna be a story
1996
01:14:19.076 --> 01:14:21.122
about a feature on Emilio?
DAVE: Mm-hmm.
1997
01:14:21.122 --> 01:14:22.959
He said, "Hey, we're
having dinner tonight,
1998
01:14:22.959 --> 01:14:26.716
me, and, you know,
Judd, and Rob."
1999
01:14:26.716 --> 01:14:28.929
They were in full flower,
having a great time,
2000
01:14:28.929 --> 01:14:31.350
drinking and toasting
and nostrovia.
2001
01:14:31.350 --> 01:14:32.937
Nostrovia.
2002
01:14:32.937 --> 01:14:34.983
DAVE: You know, a lot of people
were coming around the table.
2003
01:14:34.983 --> 01:14:38.489
And especially--
2004
01:14:38.489 --> 01:14:41.663
you know, no surprise, Rob Lowe
2005
01:14:41.663 --> 01:14:44.168
was getting a lot
of the special attention,
2006
01:14:44.168 --> 01:14:45.546
but everybody was.
2007
01:14:45.546 --> 01:14:47.884
I was getting the least
attention of all, you know,
2008
01:14:47.884 --> 01:14:49.554
which was, you know, fine,
2009
01:14:49.554 --> 01:14:51.766
and I was just really able
to observe.
2010
01:14:51.766 --> 01:14:53.227
Did you like Emilio
when you interviewed him?
2011
01:14:53.227 --> 01:14:54.856
I really did, all the way
through the whole process.
2012
01:14:54.856 --> 01:14:56.066
I didn't dislike any of them.
2013
01:14:56.066 --> 01:14:57.904
I thought they were
all quite nice.
2014
01:14:57.904 --> 01:15:00.200
It's hard to explain,
but I didn't think at the time,
2015
01:15:00.200 --> 01:15:03.122
ugh, these brats, at all.
2016
01:15:03.122 --> 01:15:04.709
So you come home
to New York then.
2017
01:15:04.709 --> 01:15:06.337
DAVE: Well,
before I came back--
2018
01:15:06.337 --> 01:15:08.341
the night before
this all happened,
2019
01:15:08.341 --> 01:15:11.055
I had gone out to dinner
with some friends who happened
2020
01:15:11.055 --> 01:15:12.432
to be in LA, journalists.
2021
01:15:12.432 --> 01:15:16.398
We had a very large meal
at this dinner.
2022
01:15:16.398 --> 01:15:18.110
And one of--
this guy from People Magazine,
2023
01:15:18.110 --> 01:15:21.242
who was a very funny writer
named Alan Richmond,
2024
01:15:21.242 --> 01:15:24.498
referred to us as
the "Fat Pack," which
2025
01:15:24.498 --> 01:15:26.670
I thought was very funny.
2026
01:15:26.670 --> 01:15:29.174
So at some point
while I was in LA,
2027
01:15:29.174 --> 01:15:31.888
I was driving from
one place to another,
2028
01:15:31.888 --> 01:15:34.978
and that joke
re-emerged in my brain,
2029
01:15:34.978 --> 01:15:36.355
and I said, "Brat Pack."
2030
01:15:36.355 --> 01:15:39.696
And then I thought, "Ha,
a light bulb has gone on,
2031
01:15:39.696 --> 01:15:41.783
and I now have a title."
2032
01:15:41.783 --> 01:15:44.079
I thought, "Well, this is fun.
It's fun."
2033
01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:45.874
I just thought, "Oh, oh, yeah."
2034
01:15:45.874 --> 01:15:49.716
And Emilio did that thing where
he got the cheaper ticket.
2035
01:15:49.716 --> 01:15:51.010
And I don't know.
2036
01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:52.722
I just start listing
all the things.
2037
01:15:52.722 --> 01:15:54.601
You know, they said that thing
about Tim Hutton.
2038
01:15:54.601 --> 01:15:55.769
Oh, yeah.
They're brats.
2039
01:15:55.769 --> 01:15:57.022
You know, it's funny.
2040
01:15:57.022 --> 01:15:58.650
It honestly didn't
cross my mind, really,
2041
01:15:58.650 --> 01:16:02.032
that it was
all that big a deal.
2042
01:16:02.032 --> 01:16:05.079
The article comes out,
and, you know, the cover--
2043
01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:06.332
Hollywood's Brat Pack,
2044
01:16:06.332 --> 01:16:07.334
those guys.
It really--
2045
01:16:07.334 --> 01:16:08.837
you know,
people were like, "Wow."
2046
01:16:08.837 --> 01:16:11.926
And the phrase definitely--
people dug it, you know.
2047
01:16:11.926 --> 01:16:13.471
Well, one or two people
were like, "Wow,"
2048
01:16:13.471 --> 01:16:14.974
that's like really mean."
You know?
2049
01:16:14.974 --> 01:16:16.561
I thought it was pretty,
like, whoa.
2050
01:16:16.561 --> 01:16:18.774
DAVE: Well, you referred to it
in, I think, that Today Show
2051
01:16:18.774 --> 01:16:20.653
interview as "scathing."
That was the word.
2052
01:16:20.653 --> 01:16:22.405
I thought it was-- yeah,
I did think it was scathing.
2053
01:16:22.405 --> 01:16:23.742
Didn't you?
2054
01:16:23.742 --> 01:16:26.790
Um...
2055
01:16:26.790 --> 01:16:29.044
I mean, I guess
in retrospect, yes.
2056
01:16:29.044 --> 01:16:33.135
Um, at the time, no.
2057
01:16:33.135 --> 01:16:38.437
I was proud of my creation
of the phrase.
2058
01:16:38.437 --> 01:16:39.982
Look, I was--
2059
01:16:39.982 --> 01:16:41.736
I don't know
how old you were then.
2060
01:16:41.736 --> 01:16:42.863
I was--
- I was, like, 22.
2061
01:16:42.863 --> 01:16:44.408
OK.
I was 29.
2062
01:16:44.408 --> 01:16:48.875
And I definitely knew
it was gonna have a reaction.
2063
01:16:48.875 --> 01:16:50.671
Yeah.
I mean, it certainly was--
2064
01:16:50.671 --> 01:16:53.008
my recollection is that
it was instantaneous,
2065
01:16:53.008 --> 01:16:56.641
and burned deep, and...
2066
01:16:56.641 --> 01:16:59.605
I just remember seeing
that cover and being like,
2067
01:16:59.605 --> 01:17:01.275
"What just happened?"
2068
01:17:01.275 --> 01:17:03.237
Really, it hit like that--
like a car wreck.
2069
01:17:03.237 --> 01:17:05.617
And I felt instantly--
and it proved to be
2070
01:17:05.617 --> 01:17:07.036
the experience--
that I'd lost control
2071
01:17:07.036 --> 01:17:08.915
of the narrative of my career.
2072
01:17:08.915 --> 01:17:10.334
Well, that's very well put.
2073
01:17:10.334 --> 01:17:12.380
What really upset me
about the article
2074
01:17:12.380 --> 01:17:15.011
was that it felt like
they're not that interested
2075
01:17:15.011 --> 01:17:16.765
in doing the craft of it.
2076
01:17:16.765 --> 01:17:19.436
They want to be famous
and be-- and party.
2077
01:17:19.436 --> 01:17:21.774
And what I was--
you know, I took offense
2078
01:17:21.774 --> 01:17:23.444
at that because I felt like--
2079
01:17:23.444 --> 01:17:25.281
Well, you had gone
to acting school,
2080
01:17:25.281 --> 01:17:26.743
and you had gone to college.
2081
01:17:26.743 --> 01:17:28.412
You got--
did you graduate from NYU?
2082
01:17:28.412 --> 01:17:29.456
I did not.
I was kicked out.
2083
01:17:29.456 --> 01:17:30.709
Oh, oh.
2084
01:17:30.709 --> 01:17:32.170
But I did go
to acting school, yeah.
2085
01:17:32.170 --> 01:17:33.840
I think part of my point
was, you know,
2086
01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:35.259
guys like Tom Cruise,
who went straight
2087
01:17:35.259 --> 01:17:38.140
from a production
of A Christmas Carol
2088
01:17:38.140 --> 01:17:40.144
to being in--
- Being in Top Gun.
2089
01:17:40.144 --> 01:17:41.480
[chuckling]
2090
01:17:41.480 --> 01:17:42.983
It worked out for him.
2091
01:17:42.983 --> 01:17:44.987
It felt like to me,
and I know to the other people
2092
01:17:44.987 --> 01:17:46.406
at the time--
putting words
2093
01:17:46.406 --> 01:17:48.912
in their mouth--
we have to reposition this,
2094
01:17:48.912 --> 01:17:51.166
or deflect this,
or get away from this,
2095
01:17:51.166 --> 01:17:52.545
or whatever
because it certainly
2096
01:17:52.545 --> 01:17:55.466
wasn't perceived in
the industry as a compliment.
2097
01:17:55.466 --> 01:17:59.934
It would take
a Herculean ability
2098
01:17:59.934 --> 01:18:04.527
to be sort of cool
with yourself to,
2099
01:18:04.527 --> 01:18:08.367
in June of 1985, go,
"Hey, this is a good thing."
2100
01:18:08.367 --> 01:18:09.870
I get that.
2101
01:18:09.870 --> 01:18:11.874
I mean, nobody was gonna,
like, immediately go,
2102
01:18:11.874 --> 01:18:13.628
"Oh, my God,
we're gonna be famous forever.
2103
01:18:13.628 --> 01:18:15.674
This is like a--"
[laughs]
2104
01:18:15.674 --> 01:18:17.260
Who would think that?
2105
01:18:17.260 --> 01:18:18.722
To me, when I look back on it,
2106
01:18:18.722 --> 01:18:21.603
I actually feel more redeemed
than ever
2107
01:18:21.603 --> 01:18:23.857
by the fact
that I was not wrong.
2108
01:18:23.857 --> 01:18:26.028
You were a bunch of talented
and interesting people
2109
01:18:26.028 --> 01:18:27.781
to write about
at a point when Hollywood
2110
01:18:27.781 --> 01:18:30.453
had finally decided
young adults
2111
01:18:30.453 --> 01:18:33.292
should be in movies.
Why not?
2112
01:18:33.292 --> 01:18:34.879
But in fairness,
you didn't write it
2113
01:18:34.879 --> 01:18:36.841
with any affection toward them.
You wrote it with more of a--
2114
01:18:36.841 --> 01:18:38.637
You were all adults.
2115
01:18:38.637 --> 01:18:40.056
I would not have written
that story about minors.
2116
01:18:40.056 --> 01:18:41.308
Yeah, sure.
2117
01:18:41.308 --> 01:18:43.103
DAVE: No, I mean, I felt
that I could do that.
2118
01:18:43.103 --> 01:18:44.481
And I felt that--
this is maybe
2119
01:18:44.481 --> 01:18:46.109
not the best analogy,
but Woody Allen,
2120
01:18:46.109 --> 01:18:48.489
at one point in his travails
2121
01:18:48.489 --> 01:18:51.036
of recent memory, said,
"I'm in it--
2122
01:18:51.036 --> 01:18:53.457
I'm cool with it because
of the Knicks tickets."
2123
01:18:53.457 --> 01:18:55.419
[chuckles]
And I thought, "Wow, really?"
2124
01:18:55.419 --> 01:18:57.215
That's-- you know,
for him, that's what it is,
2125
01:18:57.215 --> 01:18:59.344
getting to sit courtside
at the Knicks.
2126
01:18:59.344 --> 01:19:01.724
OK, and I don't even know
what that means, but--
2127
01:19:01.724 --> 01:19:03.477
DAVE: Well, it's just like,
there's trade-offs
2128
01:19:03.477 --> 01:19:05.147
to being a celebrity.
- Uh-huh.
2129
01:19:05.147 --> 01:19:06.734
DAVE:
And some of it is positive.
2130
01:19:06.734 --> 01:19:11.326
You get whisked around the gate
to get into the nightclub.
2131
01:19:11.326 --> 01:19:14.082
These people wanted
to be written about.
2132
01:19:14.082 --> 01:19:16.294
These people agreed
to talk to me.
2133
01:19:16.294 --> 01:19:17.923
These people behaved
the way they did.
2134
01:19:17.923 --> 01:19:19.426
I'm doing my job
as a journalist.
2135
01:19:19.426 --> 01:19:21.263
It wasn't meant to destroy
or hurt anyone
2136
01:19:21.263 --> 01:19:23.935
but really just to define
a group of people
2137
01:19:23.935 --> 01:19:26.858
in a clever
and interesting way.
2138
01:19:26.858 --> 01:19:28.485
There were a couple of things
in the article that were
2139
01:19:28.485 --> 01:19:30.197
just plain-old not nice,
and I'm sure
2140
01:19:30.197 --> 01:19:32.995
I should have
been scolded by somebody,
2141
01:19:32.995 --> 01:19:36.334
and I was.
I was just trying to be funny.
2142
01:19:36.334 --> 01:19:39.633
And I actually think I may--
2143
01:19:39.633 --> 01:19:42.013
I hope I won't sound
too arrogant by thinking
2144
01:19:42.013 --> 01:19:43.432
that I might have succeeded.
2145
01:19:43.432 --> 01:19:45.227
They were all on
Donahue one day
2146
01:19:45.227 --> 01:19:47.649
for promoting St. Elmo's Fire,
2147
01:19:47.649 --> 01:19:49.987
and Donahue was, at the time,
you know, a very popular show,
2148
01:19:49.987 --> 01:19:52.325
and they were
all together on stage.
2149
01:19:52.325 --> 01:19:54.245
And he's running around
with his microphone.
2150
01:19:54.245 --> 01:19:56.834
And Richard Schickel, who was
the critic of TIME Magazine...
2151
01:19:56.834 --> 01:19:58.378
TIME Magazine, yeah.
2152
01:19:58.378 --> 01:20:00.466
Was there, it seemed to me,
to attack me.
2153
01:20:00.466 --> 01:20:03.388
The article reviewed
the life and apparently
2154
01:20:03.388 --> 01:20:06.979
followed the so-called
Brat Pack for a couple of days.
2155
01:20:06.979 --> 01:20:08.900
RICHARD: Could I apologize
for my profession for that?
2156
01:20:08.900 --> 01:20:10.027
[laughter]
- Oh, thank you.
2157
01:20:10.027 --> 01:20:11.614
Thank you.
2158
01:20:11.614 --> 01:20:13.618
RICHARD: I really thought that
was a scurrilous article.
2159
01:20:13.618 --> 01:20:15.496
[applause]
2160
01:20:15.496 --> 01:20:18.001
And I'm like, "Really?"
2161
01:20:18.001 --> 01:20:19.839
That seems a little harsh,
you know?
2162
01:20:19.839 --> 01:20:21.801
The film critic
at TIME Magazine.
2163
01:20:21.801 --> 01:20:23.888
Well, St. Elmo's Fire became--
and, you know,
2164
01:20:23.888 --> 01:20:26.101
again, it became a hit.
2165
01:20:26.101 --> 01:20:27.855
And ultimately,
I think I should have gotten
2166
01:20:27.855 --> 01:20:29.900
more credit
for helping that along.
2167
01:20:29.900 --> 01:20:31.153
[laughter]
2168
01:20:31.153 --> 01:20:32.698
Honestly, no, I'm serious.
2169
01:20:32.698 --> 01:20:35.704
You know, controversy sells.
2170
01:20:35.704 --> 01:20:37.206
Did it affect your career?
2171
01:20:37.206 --> 01:20:39.670
DAVE: Not as much as I thought
it was going to.
2172
01:20:39.670 --> 01:20:42.634
I really thought that
I was gonna be suddenly ushered
2173
01:20:42.634 --> 01:20:45.765
into Tina Brown's office.
I've spent my whole--
2174
01:20:45.765 --> 01:20:49.022
honestly, really, whole life,
it comes up sooner
2175
01:20:49.022 --> 01:20:52.486
or later with people I know.
You created the Brat Pack?
2176
01:20:52.486 --> 01:20:54.073
I mean, people just
literally don't know
2177
01:20:54.073 --> 01:20:55.619
how to process
that information.
2178
01:20:55.619 --> 01:20:57.079
Like I said, I'm proud of it.
It's fine.
2179
01:20:57.079 --> 01:20:59.668
I think-- I think
I have no regrets,
2180
01:20:59.668 --> 01:21:01.589
and I'm glad
it's lived on forever,
2181
01:21:01.589 --> 01:21:05.680
but it's not the great--
2182
01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:09.312
I hope it's not
the greatest thing I ever did.
2183
01:21:09.312 --> 01:21:10.941
I really do.
2184
01:21:10.941 --> 01:21:12.778
When you say that,
I hope I'm not known for--
2185
01:21:12.778 --> 01:21:15.449
you sound like a member
of the Brat Pack.
2186
01:21:15.449 --> 01:21:17.036
So if you could
wave a magic wand
2187
01:21:17.036 --> 01:21:19.667
and do anything different
about that article, would you?
2188
01:21:19.667 --> 01:21:24.342
No, partially because,
you know, you're 29--
2189
01:21:24.342 --> 01:21:26.555
look, I think
I can say this to you
2190
01:21:26.555 --> 01:21:28.810
and you hopefully will get it,
is that you make--
2191
01:21:28.810 --> 01:21:31.189
that's when you make mistakes.
- Yeah.
2192
01:21:31.189 --> 01:21:32.316
You know?
2193
01:21:32.316 --> 01:21:33.945
And even if it was a mistake--
2194
01:21:33.945 --> 01:21:35.824
and I still don't think
it was--
2195
01:21:35.824 --> 01:21:38.370
you got to take chances
and just swing
2196
01:21:38.370 --> 01:21:40.457
and do crazy things.
2197
01:21:40.457 --> 01:21:42.461
When I talk to you here now,
2198
01:21:42.461 --> 01:21:47.138
I have this sort of affection
for you in spite--
2199
01:21:47.138 --> 01:21:48.599
No, I totally understand.
2200
01:21:48.599 --> 01:21:50.812
We have--
even though we've never met
2201
01:21:50.812 --> 01:21:52.314
and never been in contact,
we have something.
2202
01:21:52.314 --> 01:21:53.483
We share something.
2203
01:21:53.483 --> 01:21:55.029
And I actually think
you've actually
2204
01:21:55.029 --> 01:21:57.241
found the emotional
beating heart
2205
01:21:57.241 --> 01:21:59.997
of the story, which is,
you know,
2206
01:21:59.997 --> 01:22:02.001
that we all share something.
2207
01:22:02.001 --> 01:22:04.882
Who would have ever thought
we'd even be here?
2208
01:22:04.882 --> 01:22:07.470
ANDREW: Yeah.
- It's crazy.
2209
01:22:07.470 --> 01:22:10.977
But that's cool, I think.
- Thank you.
2210
01:22:10.977 --> 01:22:12.354
DAVE: It was really great
to meet you.
2211
01:22:12.354 --> 01:22:13.941
ANDREW: Thank you.
2212
01:22:13.941 --> 01:22:15.695
DAVE: Stay in touch, and let me
know how this is going.
2213
01:22:15.695 --> 01:22:18.743
I will.
And we'll get out of your hair.
2214
01:22:18.743 --> 01:22:21.749
Um, but do you think
you could have been nicer?
2215
01:22:21.749 --> 01:22:23.795
- [chuckles]
- Seriously.
2216
01:22:23.795 --> 01:22:25.422
I mean,
it's collateral damage,
2217
01:22:25.422 --> 01:22:28.638
in my view,
to making the point that
2218
01:22:28.638 --> 01:22:30.224
here was a bunch of people
2219
01:22:30.224 --> 01:22:32.311
that had become very famous
and popular,
2220
01:22:32.311 --> 01:22:33.815
and I'm calling them
the "Brat Pack,"
2221
01:22:33.815 --> 01:22:35.192
and here's how I'm saying it.
2222
01:22:35.192 --> 01:22:36.612
But there was
collateral damage?
2223
01:22:36.612 --> 01:22:38.031
DAVE: Oh, yeah.
2224
01:22:38.031 --> 01:22:40.327
I guess I feel like, you know,
sticks and stones.
2225
01:22:40.327 --> 01:22:47.258
♪ ♪
2226
01:23:01.745 --> 01:23:03.415
ANDREW:
We went through something.
2227
01:23:03.415 --> 01:23:04.877
ALLY: Yeah.
ANDREW: And it was real.
2228
01:23:04.877 --> 01:23:06.504
And the fallout was real.
2229
01:23:06.504 --> 01:23:10.513
And it affected our lives,
my life, profoundly.
2230
01:23:10.513 --> 01:23:11.765
Yeah, me, too.
2231
01:23:11.765 --> 01:23:14.312
ANDREW: To this day.
2232
01:23:14.312 --> 01:23:15.690
Me, too.
2233
01:23:15.690 --> 01:23:17.527
ANDREW: And so
we're members of a club
2234
01:23:17.527 --> 01:23:19.489
we never asked to join.
2235
01:23:19.489 --> 01:23:22.746
And so there is
an unspoken kind of like--
2236
01:23:22.746 --> 01:23:24.248
just that.
2237
01:23:24.248 --> 01:23:26.419
It's like, oh, hello, hello.
ALLY: Yeah.
2238
01:23:26.419 --> 01:23:28.340
And I am really grateful
for that,
2239
01:23:28.340 --> 01:23:30.595
for having the people
2240
01:23:30.595 --> 01:23:34.895
that I know I have
this connection with.
2241
01:23:34.895 --> 01:23:36.439
Do you know what I mean?
2242
01:23:36.439 --> 01:23:39.655
The fondness that
I feel for everybody,
2243
01:23:39.655 --> 01:23:41.157
that's real.
2244
01:23:41.157 --> 01:23:42.953
I mean, that's--
that's genuine.
2245
01:23:42.953 --> 01:23:44.205
You know?
2246
01:23:44.205 --> 01:23:48.421
♪ ♪
2247
01:23:48.421 --> 01:23:50.175
And, you know,
on your tombstone--
2248
01:23:50.175 --> 01:23:51.595
I think I heard you say this--
2249
01:23:51.595 --> 01:23:55.102
"Emilio Brat Pack Estevez"
will be your epitaph.
2250
01:23:55.102 --> 01:23:56.104
I did.
I said it last year.
2251
01:23:56.104 --> 01:23:57.314
Did you?
Yeah.
2252
01:23:57.314 --> 01:23:59.026
And it's--
EMILIO: Yeah.
2253
01:23:59.026 --> 01:24:01.949
And-- and what
do you think of that?
2254
01:24:01.949 --> 01:24:03.953
I think that
we have no control
2255
01:24:03.953 --> 01:24:05.957
of how we're remembered.
2256
01:24:05.957 --> 01:24:07.877
The toothpaste is--
it's out of the tube.
2257
01:24:07.877 --> 01:24:09.673
It's not coming back.
- [laughs]
2258
01:24:09.673 --> 01:24:12.386
And so I think for us,
it's like
2259
01:24:12.386 --> 01:24:16.979
there's a--
there's a surrender to it.
2260
01:24:16.979 --> 01:24:19.651
ANDREW: It is part of--
warts and all,
2261
01:24:19.651 --> 01:24:22.574
part of who I, you, we are.
2262
01:24:22.574 --> 01:24:26.289
And you, and I, and the
other people in the Brat Pack
2263
01:24:26.289 --> 01:24:29.630
are in--
are bound together--
2264
01:24:29.630 --> 01:24:30.882
Inexorably.
2265
01:24:30.882 --> 01:24:32.134
ANDREW: Inexorably.
That's the word.
2266
01:24:32.134 --> 01:24:33.554
It's true.
2267
01:24:33.554 --> 01:24:34.556
ANDREW: But it's like,
I don't know you
2268
01:24:34.556 --> 01:24:35.725
in 30-odd years.
2269
01:24:35.725 --> 01:24:37.227
I hadn't seen Demi
in all these years,
2270
01:24:37.227 --> 01:24:38.814
and yet,
if I saw someone else
2271
01:24:38.814 --> 01:24:40.317
I'd been in movies with
30 years ago,
2272
01:24:40.317 --> 01:24:41.737
I'd have nothing
to talk about with them.
2273
01:24:41.737 --> 01:24:43.239
Right.
ANDREW: Nothing.
2274
01:24:43.239 --> 01:24:46.204
And yet, we have this
deep thing in common.
2275
01:24:46.204 --> 01:24:49.335
That's-- I don't--
the look in your eye--
2276
01:24:49.335 --> 01:24:51.005
No, it's unusual.
ANDREW: It's certainly unusual.
2277
01:24:51.005 --> 01:24:52.466
At best, it's unusual.
2278
01:24:52.466 --> 01:24:54.095
ANDREW: And it's--
and I don't know.
2279
01:24:54.095 --> 01:24:56.140
I find it a beautiful thing
to actually get to go
2280
01:24:56.140 --> 01:24:57.727
and see you and talk to you
about that.
2281
01:24:57.727 --> 01:25:02.111
I find that exciting
and, like, liberating
2282
01:25:02.111 --> 01:25:04.741
in a certain way.
Thank you.
2283
01:25:04.741 --> 01:25:06.119
EMILIO: Of course.
Hey, man.
2284
01:25:06.119 --> 01:25:07.246
Nice to see you.
ANDREW: It's great to see you.
2285
01:25:07.246 --> 01:25:09.543
And we're both wearing
the same shirt.
2286
01:25:09.543 --> 01:25:13.049
In my opinion, it was kind of
the end of old Hollywood.
2287
01:25:13.049 --> 01:25:14.427
I mean, even the idea--
2288
01:25:14.427 --> 01:25:16.139
the Rat Pack, Brat Pack--
2289
01:25:16.139 --> 01:25:20.188
was trying to, like,
hold on to the last vestiges
2290
01:25:20.188 --> 01:25:22.944
of old Hollywood.
And you guys were involved.
2291
01:25:22.944 --> 01:25:26.577
Well, that's kind of cool.
[laughter]
2292
01:25:26.577 --> 01:25:28.121
You know, like Al Pacino
because of The Godfather--
2293
01:25:28.121 --> 01:25:29.331
he goes,
it's taken me a lifetime
2294
01:25:29.331 --> 01:25:30.877
to accept The Godfather.
- Exactly.
2295
01:25:30.877 --> 01:25:33.047
If it takes Al Pacino
that 50 years
2296
01:25:33.047 --> 01:25:34.885
to accept The Godfather,
I'm in good company.
2297
01:25:34.885 --> 01:25:36.638
Exactly.
Al Pacino.
2298
01:25:36.638 --> 01:25:38.099
I mean, God bless us,
but Pretty in Pink
2299
01:25:38.099 --> 01:25:39.477
is not The Godfather.
But you know--
2300
01:25:39.477 --> 01:25:40.980
[laughter]
- Agreed.
2301
01:25:40.980 --> 01:25:44.654
We all made it mean something
and in varying degrees.
2302
01:25:44.654 --> 01:25:46.658
That's right.
We all made it mean something.
2303
01:25:46.658 --> 01:25:48.996
And it actually wasn't even
about really any of us.
2304
01:25:48.996 --> 01:25:51.167
It was about the person
who wrote it
2305
01:25:51.167 --> 01:25:53.672
trying to be clever
and get their next job.
2306
01:25:53.672 --> 01:25:56.469
- Yeah.
- [laughs]
2307
01:25:56.469 --> 01:25:58.599
ANDREW: Yeah.
2308
01:25:58.599 --> 01:26:00.393
♪ ♪
2309
01:26:00.393 --> 01:26:02.732
Yeah.
2310
01:26:02.732 --> 01:26:04.569
My youth, I ran from.
2311
01:26:04.569 --> 01:26:09.538
The very thing that I was
identified as and/or with,
2312
01:26:09.538 --> 01:26:11.457
I dissociated from it
because I didn't
2313
01:26:11.457 --> 01:26:13.921
want that to be who I was.
2314
01:26:13.921 --> 01:26:16.927
And so to bring that up
into my present,
2315
01:26:16.927 --> 01:26:19.683
like, oh.
2316
01:26:19.683 --> 01:26:21.854
Yeah, that personally of value.
2317
01:26:21.854 --> 01:26:23.356
I'm more than the sum
of my parts
2318
01:26:23.356 --> 01:26:25.151
because of being a member
of the Brat Pack.
2319
01:26:25.151 --> 01:26:26.863
Yes, it gives you cachet.
2320
01:26:26.863 --> 01:26:31.038
You were part of the lexicon,
and that gave you great cachet.
2321
01:26:31.038 --> 01:26:32.542
Maybe not at the time
you didn't think that,
2322
01:26:32.542 --> 01:26:34.003
but it did.
2323
01:26:34.003 --> 01:26:36.257
So we are part of the sort of
'80s cultural lexicon.
2324
01:26:36.257 --> 01:26:39.221
Yes, we are.
Yes, we are, and proud of it.
2325
01:26:39.221 --> 01:26:40.850
You're awesome.
Come here, Lauren.
2326
01:26:40.850 --> 01:26:42.477
[laughter]
2327
01:26:42.477 --> 01:26:45.400
Listen, to be a part
of anything that anybody
2328
01:26:45.400 --> 01:26:48.824
still talks about
30-plus years
2329
01:26:48.824 --> 01:26:51.914
is really, really
a special thing.
2330
01:26:51.914 --> 01:26:54.418
And when we're 21, 22,
you're just sort of
2331
01:26:54.418 --> 01:26:55.963
cusping into the world.
2332
01:26:55.963 --> 01:26:57.926
Your life is a blank slate
to be written upon,
2333
01:26:57.926 --> 01:26:59.721
and it's a thrilling time
in life.
2334
01:26:59.721 --> 01:27:02.602
And we represent that
to that generation of people
2335
01:27:02.602 --> 01:27:04.898
who are coming of age
at that moment.
2336
01:27:04.898 --> 01:27:06.610
And they look at you.
They look at me.
2337
01:27:06.610 --> 01:27:08.363
And they go, "Oh,
the Brat Pack movies."
2338
01:27:08.363 --> 01:27:09.950
And I see their eyes
glaze over because they're
2339
01:27:09.950 --> 01:27:12.037
really, in many ways,
talking about themselves...
2340
01:27:12.037 --> 01:27:13.039
100%
ANDREW: And their own youth.
2341
01:27:13.039 --> 01:27:14.458
ROB: Yeah.
2342
01:27:14.458 --> 01:27:16.295
And we are the avatars
of that moment in their life.
2343
01:27:16.295 --> 01:27:17.590
ROB: Yeah.
2344
01:27:17.590 --> 01:27:18.676
ANDREW: And I've come
to realize
2345
01:27:18.676 --> 01:27:20.387
that's a beautiful thing.
- Totally.
2346
01:27:20.387 --> 01:27:22.307
Something that was
so hated by me
2347
01:27:22.307 --> 01:27:27.442
and I felt did me damage
has become a blessing
2348
01:27:27.442 --> 01:27:29.196
is kind of amazing.
DAVE: Wow.
2349
01:27:29.196 --> 01:27:31.994
Sometimes,
we need some distance.
2350
01:27:31.994 --> 01:27:34.958
We got mixed up with each other
on this crazy thing
2351
01:27:34.958 --> 01:27:36.878
that none of us intended.
2352
01:27:36.878 --> 01:27:39.718
It all just turned into
2353
01:27:39.718 --> 01:27:43.266
tremendous, deep fondness
2354
01:27:43.266 --> 01:27:45.311
for you and for everybody
2355
01:27:45.311 --> 01:27:47.023
who was involved in it,
you know?
2356
01:27:47.023 --> 01:27:50.447
It was a complicated time,
a really complicated time.
2357
01:27:50.447 --> 01:27:55.290
But the good memories
I have are--
2358
01:27:55.290 --> 01:27:57.127
are deep, you know?
2359
01:27:57.127 --> 01:27:59.256
And they're-- they're in there.
2360
01:27:59.256 --> 01:28:03.431
So if somebody said,
"Was it worth it?"
2361
01:28:03.431 --> 01:28:06.897
Yes, it was.
2362
01:28:06.897 --> 01:28:09.861
Oh, yeah.
ALLY: Yeah.
2363
01:28:09.861 --> 01:28:11.405
Oh, yeah.
2364
01:28:11.405 --> 01:28:14.161
Well, we're very
different people personally.
2365
01:28:14.161 --> 01:28:16.165
And if you threw us together
outside of
2366
01:28:16.165 --> 01:28:18.587
that kind of situation,
I don't know if we'd get along.
2367
01:28:18.587 --> 01:28:20.591
But somehow,
2368
01:28:20.591 --> 01:28:21.968
when we were
all there together,
2369
01:28:21.968 --> 01:28:23.346
the ship kind of
balanced itself out.
2370
01:28:23.346 --> 01:28:27.312
♪ ♪
2371
01:28:27.312 --> 01:28:30.318
[Zoe Fox and the Rocket Clocks
"Don't You (Forget About Me)"]
2372
01:28:30.318 --> 01:28:36.873
♪ ♪
2373
01:28:36.873 --> 01:28:40.965
ZOE: ♪ Won't you
come see about me ♪
2374
01:28:40.965 --> 01:28:43.929
♪ I'll be alone dancing ♪
2375
01:28:43.929 --> 01:28:46.016
♪ And you know it, baby ♪
2376
01:28:46.016 --> 01:28:49.858
♪ Tell me
your troubles and doubts ♪
2377
01:28:49.858 --> 01:28:55.118
♪ Giving me everything
inside and out ♪
2378
01:28:55.118 --> 01:28:59.126
♪ Love's strange,
so real in the dark ♪
2379
01:28:59.126 --> 01:29:03.844
♪ Think of the tender things
that we were working on ♪
2380
01:29:03.844 --> 01:29:08.477
♪ Slow change
may pull us apart ♪
2381
01:29:08.477 --> 01:29:13.487
♪ When the light gets
into your heart, baby ♪
2382
01:29:13.487 --> 01:29:19.416
♪ Don't you forget about me ♪
2383
01:29:19.416 --> 01:29:23.132
[phone ringing]
2384
01:29:23.132 --> 01:29:26.180
ANDREW: Hello.
Judd?
2385
01:29:26.180 --> 01:29:29.186
[Simple Minds'
"Don't You (Forget About Me)"
2386
01:29:29.186 --> 01:29:31.691
JIM: ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey ♪
2387
01:29:31.691 --> 01:29:35.490
♪ Ooh ♪
2388
01:29:35.490 --> 01:29:39.791
♪ Whoa ♪
2389
01:29:39.791 --> 01:29:44.717
♪ ♪
2390
01:29:44.717 --> 01:29:48.391
♪ Won't you
come see about me ♪
2391
01:29:48.391 --> 01:29:51.146
♪ I'll be alone dancing ♪
2392
01:29:51.146 --> 01:29:52.900
♪ You know it, baby ♪
2393
01:29:52.900 --> 01:29:56.783
♪ Tell me
your troubles and doubts ♪
2394
01:29:56.783 --> 01:30:00.916
♪ Giving everything
inside and out ♪
2395
01:30:00.916 --> 01:30:05.133
♪ And love's strange,
so real in the dark ♪
2396
01:30:05.133 --> 01:30:09.934
♪ Think of the tender things
that we were working on ♪
2397
01:30:09.934 --> 01:30:14.318
♪ Slow change
may pull us apart ♪
2398
01:30:14.318 --> 01:30:18.618
♪ When the light
gets into your heart, baby ♪
2399
01:30:18.618 --> 01:30:22.960
♪ Don't you forget about me ♪
2400
01:30:22.960 --> 01:30:25.048
♪ ♪
2401
01:30:25.048 --> 01:30:27.553
♪ Don't, don't, don't, don't ♪
2402
01:30:27.553 --> 01:30:31.603
♪ Don't you forget about me ♪
2403
01:30:31.603 --> 01:30:35.903
♪ ♪
2404
01:30:35.903 --> 01:30:39.952
♪ Will you stand above me ♪
2405
01:30:39.952 --> 01:30:42.374
♪ Look my way ♪
2406
01:30:42.374 --> 01:30:44.463
♪ Never love me ♪