WEBVTT FILE

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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-Hey.
-Hey.

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00:00:12.012 --> 00:00:12.929
-How you doin'?
-[kisses]

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00:00:15.849 --> 00:00:17.308
-You look great.
-Yeah?

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00:00:18.309 --> 00:00:19.144
I've lost some weight.

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Yeah. Hey,
but you look good,
you look great.

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00:00:22.605 --> 00:00:23.648
-Hey.
-Hey.

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00:00:24.607 --> 00:00:26.026
[kisses]

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00:00:26.109 --> 00:00:28.945
-Hey. Good seeing you.
-Good seeing you.
You look great.

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All right,
this is living room, take one.
AB common mark.

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-[man] And we are
speed and set.
-Rolling.

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[man 2] Hey, Sam,
do you want to pick up
a photo there

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and tell me
what we're looking at?

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00:00:42.459 --> 00:00:46.463
This is a Christmas
with my daughter and my son.

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-[Gerard] Is that in Brooklyn?
-I want to think that's
Grandma and Grandpa's house

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00:00:49.299 --> 00:00:50.592
in Long Island.

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And then this is you,
got a little older.

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We're on a boat.

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-Those were, like,
the best memories of my life.
-That was amazing.

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[Karen] This is my communion.

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Gerard, look how short
you were. [chuckles]

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[Karen]
Look how innocent you look,
just young and innocent.

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Did you ever go to confession
and tell the priest your sins?

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Mmm, yeah,
I went to confession.

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I told the priest,
"You tell me yours
and I'll tell you mine."

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[Sammy]
My name is Salvatore
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano.

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I'm a fucking gangster.

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[man] On the right
is John Gotti.

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On the left,
his trusted assistant
Sammy the Bull.

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Gravano committed
19 mob murders.

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Like my father,
I also believed in
Cosa Nostra.

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But then everything changed.

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Am I a rat?

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I took fucking 20 years
to help my kids and my family.
Is that a rat?

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[Gerard] This is a story
that we never allowed
my father to tell.

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[reporter]
This is Phoenix, Arizona,

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and this will be
our armchair vacation

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to The Valley of the Sun.

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00:02:02.872 --> 00:02:04.582
[Karen]
When we moved to Phoenix

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00:02:04.624 --> 00:02:06.418
we were definitely
fish out of water.

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-[crowd cheering]
-[Karen] But there was
this whole underbelly

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in the middle of the desert
having rave parties.

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[reporter] What keeps
much of the action pumping,
according to authorities...

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-...is the drug ecstasy.
-[woman whispers] Ecstasy.

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[Gerard] I didn't come
to Arizona to sell drugs
but I was built for this shit.

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I wanted to control
the ecstasy scene
here in Arizona.

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But then some guys
started undercutting us.

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-[woman] It was Shaun.
-[man] It was Shaun.

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-[man 2] It was Shaun.
-[man 3] It was Shaun
who was the mastermind

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to our ecstasy empire.

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It's fuck or be fucked
in this world.

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[Gerard]
This means fucking war.

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It's not fun anymore.
Now we're getting
automatic weapons.

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[man] Get down! Get down!

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[man 2]
It's like a fuckin' movie.

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[Gerard]
I was prepared to kill him.

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-[thunder rumbling]
-[Shaun] And then the name
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano

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entered my sphere.

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I don't give a flying fuck.

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00:03:00.180 --> 00:03:02.599
We'll go to war
[clicks] like that.

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00:03:04.517 --> 00:03:06.353
It was me and my family
against the world.

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[Gerard]
When we moved to Arizona,

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00:03:35.965 --> 00:03:37.466
it was completely different
than New York.

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I grew up with people
that would pick up a gun
and shoot you in two seconds.

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This is a story
that I'm gonna tell

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00:03:58.863 --> 00:04:01.116
that we never
allowed my father to tell,

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00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:02.325
me and my whole family...

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00:04:03.660 --> 00:04:05.912
...but let's start
at the beginning.

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We grew up in Staten Island.

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A very, very
tight-knit family.

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This was my sister's birthday.

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That's me.

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That's my sister,
and there's my father.

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He was always present
in our lives,

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00:04:30.937 --> 00:04:35.108
but at that time
I really didn't know anything
about what my father did.

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[Karen] At the time,
everything seemed normal
to me.

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00:04:40.780 --> 00:04:44.159
I came home
and I was surrounded
by love, family.

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My father was a provider,
he was a protector,
and he was a friend.

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He was someone
that I always knew

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was gonna be there,
no matter what,

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so I didn't question much.

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But then, at my sweet 16,
I remember my friend
told me,

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00:04:59.299 --> 00:05:00.842
"John Gotti's here."

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00:05:00.925 --> 00:05:04.346
It was at that point
I realized my father's
first family

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00:05:04.429 --> 00:05:06.264
was the Gambino family.

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He was a gangster to the core.

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He's Sammy the Bull.

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[reporter]
John Gotti and his underboss,
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano,

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are two of the most notorious
and infamous figures

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00:05:16.775 --> 00:05:18.985
in the history
of organized crime in America.

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00:05:20.987 --> 00:05:23.323
Gravano committed
19 mob murders,

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but none were
as expertly carried out

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as the brazen
1985 assassination

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of mob boss Paul Castellano.

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00:05:31.748 --> 00:05:34.959
[Gerard] I never judged
what my father did
for one second.

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Back then, I also believed
in Cosa Nostra.

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00:05:38.088 --> 00:05:40.965
If he killed someone
they deserved to die.

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00:05:41.007 --> 00:05:43.343
They did something wrong
or broke the rules.

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00:05:46.596 --> 00:05:50.850
Being surround by that life
made me want to do
the same things.

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00:05:50.933 --> 00:05:55.271
It made me want
to go out and hurt people
and commit robberies.

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I wanted to be ready,
I wanted to know
how to handle it,

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00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:04.030
so I was 15
and boxed at Gleason's Gym
in Brooklyn, New York.

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00:06:06.783 --> 00:06:09.577
I was in great shape,
and I was fighting people,

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00:06:09.661 --> 00:06:12.997
and I was building
this confidence within myself.

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I started getting respected
because I was the son
of Sammy the Bull.

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That gave me a sense of power

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that I can do
what I want to do...

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...and there was gonna be
no repercussion.

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And then everything changed.

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[reporter] In 1991,
facing life in prison,

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"Sammy the Bull" Gravano
turned on his boss,
John Gotti.

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John Gotti, I,
along with some others,
murdered Paul Castellano.

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John Gotti became the boss.

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I became
the official underboss,

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which I held until
I began to cooperate
with the government in 1991.

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[reporter 2]
Sammy the Bull's testimony

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was crucial in convicting
the infamous mob boss
John Gotti,

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but it had also made him
a prime target

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for the criminal underworld.

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This development
is likely to have significant

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and potentially dangerous
repercussions.

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[reporter 3]
Despite admitting
to 19 murders,

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"Sammy the Bull" Gravano
served only five years
in lockup

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00:07:12.098 --> 00:07:14.601
before being released
into the witness protection
program.

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They told my father
he had to do two years

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00:07:20.440 --> 00:07:23.068
in the witness
protection program in Colorado

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and then he was done.

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We never went to Colorado
when he was there.

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We weren't allowed to.

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But me, my mother,
and my sister

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never went in
the witness protection
program.

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We had nothing to do with it.

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And we all stayed in New York.

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And I had to take on the role
as the man of the family,

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00:07:41.961 --> 00:07:46.216
and at that time
I was about 17,
but I was willing to fight.

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I was on high guard.

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I did get two guns
and I carried them
everywhere I went.

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And I was gonna do
anything I had to do
to protect my family.

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00:08:00.397 --> 00:08:05.068
And then, a few months later,
the FBI goes to my father.

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They're like, "There was a hit
put on Gerard."

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00:08:09.948 --> 00:08:13.910
They're gonna kill me
to send a message
to my father.

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That was the plan.

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My mother said, "That's it,
I'm not doing this anymore.
We have to leave New York."

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So we decided
to move to Phoenix

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to be closer
to where my father was
in witness protection.

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Before we left,
we dug up my father's money.

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I put it in
the back of my truck,

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and I was driving
across country
with 3 million cash.

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[Karen] As soon as
my father left the witness
protection program,

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00:08:41.020 --> 00:08:42.938
which he was only in
for seven months,

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00:08:43.023 --> 00:08:45.025
he came straight to Phoenix.

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[reporter] Sammy the Bull's
future whereabouts
are uncertain.

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However, given his past,
he may not be the most
desirable neighbor.

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But if he can effectively
conceal his previous identity,

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his new neighbors won't know
that living in their midst

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is a man with a price
on his head.

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00:09:20.060 --> 00:09:22.228
[Sammy] When I became
a main member in the mafia

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00:09:22.854 --> 00:09:24.189
that was a high for me.

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00:09:26.024 --> 00:09:29.152
I was involved in
three mafia wars...

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...and I was involved in
19 murders.

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I didn't like a hit
but I was focused on it.

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To me, the mafia
was no different than
being a soldier in the army.

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I never killed
a woman, a child,
or people out of the life.

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It was always people
who broke the rules
of Cosa Nostra.

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You knew what it was.

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But everybody knew the life...

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...and they knew
the consequences of the life.

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00:10:02.435 --> 00:10:04.604
I cooperated
at one time in my life.

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00:10:07.357 --> 00:10:08.692
And I tell my family...

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00:10:09.776 --> 00:10:10.860
..."I broke the rule...

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00:10:12.112 --> 00:10:15.073
...and I could be killed
at any time."

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00:10:16.741 --> 00:10:19.119
I came to Phoenix
to be with my family.

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00:10:20.412 --> 00:10:22.747
I wasn't gonna just sit back
and hide...

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00:10:23.790 --> 00:10:25.375
...so I kept my name.

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My father gave me that name,

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00:10:26.876 --> 00:10:28.461
and that's the name
I wanted to die with.

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I didn't live with my family,
I lived by myself

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00:10:33.133 --> 00:10:35.760
because I knew
the mafia would come.

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00:10:35.802 --> 00:10:40.473
I had a .357 Magnum
I always carried around
under my belt.

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00:10:41.808 --> 00:10:44.394
There was four loaded guns
in my apartment.

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00:10:45.603 --> 00:10:49.441
I was geared and ready
for any fuckin' hit guy

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00:10:49.482 --> 00:10:51.151
who would have came down
lookin' for me.

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00:10:58.408 --> 00:10:59.909
[Sammy] You cookin' up
a storm?

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00:10:59.993 --> 00:11:01.369
-He hasn't started yet.
-[Gerard] Yeah,
I'm gonna make...

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00:11:01.453 --> 00:11:04.122
-He was waiting for you.
-I'm waiting for you.
I'll make some breakfast.

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00:11:04.164 --> 00:11:07.917
It's like when we first
moved out here to Phoenix
and started our new life,

188
00:11:08.001 --> 00:11:09.961
and you finally
came in and joined.

189
00:11:10.003 --> 00:11:12.213
It was like
we never tried to hide.

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00:11:12.297 --> 00:11:14.841
We got away from the mafia,
we got away from everything...

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00:11:14.924 --> 00:11:16.634
-...we got away from our past.
-[Gerard] Yeah,
but there was always

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00:11:16.676 --> 00:11:20.180
-that possible threat
of something happening.
-Oh, yeah, of course.

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00:11:20.263 --> 00:11:22.223
Actually, when I first
came to Arizona

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00:11:22.307 --> 00:11:25.977
I got concealed
weapon permits,
I bought two, three guns,

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00:11:26.019 --> 00:11:27.771
because I was
the man of the house

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00:11:27.854 --> 00:11:30.398
-for a long time.
-[Sammy] While I was gone,
right.

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00:11:30.482 --> 00:11:32.942
[Gerard]
And now you stepped
back into that role.

198
00:11:33.026 --> 00:11:36.029
My feelings is like,
"Okay, now, what do we do?"

199
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It was, again,
we were reunited,

200
00:11:39.699 --> 00:11:41.201
and it was us
against the world.

201
00:11:43.203 --> 00:11:44.537
[Sammy]
When I came to Phoenix,

202
00:11:44.621 --> 00:11:48.165
my thinking was
no matter how much
they do to us,

203
00:11:49.042 --> 00:11:50.168
we survive...

204
00:11:51.127 --> 00:11:51.961
...and we go forward.

205
00:11:53.129 --> 00:11:56.549
I wanted nothing to do
with my old life. I'm done.

206
00:11:57.676 --> 00:12:00.679
I wanted a good life,
clean life.

207
00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:02.889
I was about to change my life.

208
00:12:05.058 --> 00:12:09.771
So I started business,
legitimate businesses.

209
00:12:09.854 --> 00:12:15.568
I had a pool company,
an excavation company,
a construction company,

210
00:12:15.652 --> 00:12:18.279
a restaurant, Uncle Sal's
Italian restaurant.

211
00:12:18.363 --> 00:12:22.867
Gerard was in culinary school,
so my father thought this
would be a great opportunity.

212
00:12:28.164 --> 00:12:31.376
[Gerard] That's me cooking.
Yeah, I was in good shape
back then.

213
00:12:35.213 --> 00:12:36.923
[Karen] We were trying
to start a new life,

214
00:12:37.007 --> 00:12:39.634
but one thing I will say,
we were definitely
fish out of water.

215
00:12:39.718 --> 00:12:41.803
-Let's just put that out.
-Yeah, no, no, we were.

216
00:12:41.886 --> 00:12:46.224
It was totally
different lifestyle
from New York to Arizona,

217
00:12:46.266 --> 00:12:47.350
especially at that time.

218
00:12:47.434 --> 00:12:48.768
I felt like Phoenix
was so slow.

219
00:12:48.852 --> 00:12:50.020
Did you feel
the same way, Gerard?

220
00:12:50.103 --> 00:12:51.312
-Go out and see...
-Yeah, the people I would meet

221
00:12:51.396 --> 00:12:52.230
and they were
wearing flip flops

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00:12:52.272 --> 00:12:54.149
and socks up to their knees.

223
00:12:54.232 --> 00:12:55.567
It was a different world.

224
00:12:55.608 --> 00:12:58.945
For me, I was lookin'
to rebuild my life

225
00:12:59.029 --> 00:13:00.405
and start from scratch.

226
00:13:01.948 --> 00:13:03.825
[Karen] I remember
saying to my brother,

227
00:13:03.908 --> 00:13:05.410
"You have to start
making some friends

228
00:13:05.452 --> 00:13:07.704
and rebuild everything
that we lost in New York.

229
00:13:07.787 --> 00:13:09.581
We have to start
rebuilding it here
in Phoenix."

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00:13:18.214 --> 00:13:19.758
[Gerard] One night,
I'm in my restaurant...

231
00:13:21.134 --> 00:13:25.555
...and a friend walks in
with this charming guy
named Mike Papa.

232
00:13:25.638 --> 00:13:28.558
He's from Long Island,
he's Italian.

233
00:13:28.641 --> 00:13:31.061
He was a good looking kid,
he was very articulate.

234
00:13:31.144 --> 00:13:33.980
I was told that
he was going to ASU.
He was a med student.

235
00:13:34.898 --> 00:13:36.316
[Gerard]
He walked in and sat down,

236
00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:39.694
and he plops down $1,000
on the desk.

237
00:13:39.778 --> 00:13:40.779
And I said, "What is that?"

238
00:13:41.654 --> 00:13:42.655
He said, "It's a gift.

239
00:13:42.739 --> 00:13:44.991
I want you
to have this from me,

240
00:13:45.075 --> 00:13:47.035
but I want you
to come out with us
one night."

241
00:13:47.118 --> 00:13:48.703
So I said,
"You know, why not?"

242
00:13:48.787 --> 00:13:50.747
I took the 1,000,
I put it in my pocket.

243
00:13:51.456 --> 00:13:53.583
Next night, I go out with him.

244
00:13:53.667 --> 00:13:58.171
We walk in to the VIP.
The bouncer gives us
this table.

245
00:13:58.254 --> 00:14:01.341
He puts a bottle on the table.
Everything is on the house.

246
00:14:01.424 --> 00:14:03.385
I felt like I was
back in New York.

247
00:14:03.468 --> 00:14:06.262
[Karen]
Who doesn't want to go out
and pop bottles?

248
00:14:06.346 --> 00:14:08.640
We came from
a lifestyle like that
in New York.

249
00:14:08.682 --> 00:14:10.809
Anything we wanted, we got.

250
00:14:10.850 --> 00:14:14.771
It's like that life
that was ripped away from us
just started coming back.

251
00:14:16.690 --> 00:14:20.443
[Gerard] And at that point,
I became fast friends
with Mike Papa.

252
00:14:20.527 --> 00:14:23.780
He's very popular in town
and the club scene,

253
00:14:23.863 --> 00:14:24.989
and everyone knew who he was.

254
00:14:25.031 --> 00:14:28.076
And so going
to these nightclubs,

255
00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:31.496
I started to notice
he was selling ecstasy.

256
00:14:39.212 --> 00:14:41.047
I was closing up
for the night,

257
00:14:41.965 --> 00:14:43.299
and Mike Papa
comes in and says,

258
00:14:43.383 --> 00:14:45.301
"You know,
I really cornered the market,

259
00:14:45.385 --> 00:14:49.431
and if you come in with me
we can really make
some good money with this."

260
00:14:49.514 --> 00:14:51.307
So I said,
"What are we gonna
make from 'em?"

261
00:14:51.391 --> 00:14:54.853
"We'll make about 2,
maybe 250 per pill."

262
00:14:54.894 --> 00:14:57.188
And you're selling
30,000 pills a week?

263
00:14:57.230 --> 00:14:58.940
That don't sound bad.

264
00:14:59.024 --> 00:15:03.445
And, at that time,
I was about 20, $30,000
in credit card debt,

265
00:15:03.528 --> 00:15:07.073
so I had a motivation
to go out and make
fast money.

266
00:15:08.658 --> 00:15:10.243
So I said, "What do you need
from me?"

267
00:15:10.326 --> 00:15:12.328
Mike Papa said,
"We need a supplier.

268
00:15:12.412 --> 00:15:14.164
We need to get
this product cheaper."

269
00:15:15.707 --> 00:15:18.209
-I knew people in New York
and people I grew up with
-[beeps]

270
00:15:18.251 --> 00:15:19.794
that I was still
very friendly with...

271
00:15:19.878 --> 00:15:21.838
-...and I started
asking around...
-[telephone ringing]

272
00:15:21.921 --> 00:15:24.132
..."Can we get ecstasy?
What's the price?"

273
00:15:24.215 --> 00:15:25.258
I was trying
to get it cheaper.

274
00:15:25.925 --> 00:15:27.469
Well, I did find someone.

275
00:15:27.552 --> 00:15:30.638
I had it set up
where I was gonna get
30, 40,000 pills.

276
00:15:30.722 --> 00:15:33.725
But then, somehow or another,
my sister found out.

277
00:15:35.393 --> 00:15:37.812
[Karen]
So now there's all this talk
about New York.

278
00:15:37.896 --> 00:15:38.730
"New York, New York."

279
00:15:38.772 --> 00:15:40.315
Talking about he's gonna start

280
00:15:40.398 --> 00:15:43.151
selling ecstasy because
he has connections where he
can get it in New York.

281
00:15:43.234 --> 00:15:45.403
Gerard had left New York
'cause there was a hit
put out on him.

282
00:15:45.445 --> 00:15:47.781
So, I'm thinking,
"If Gerard goes there...

283
00:15:49.282 --> 00:15:50.617
...connects with
the wrong person...

284
00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:52.952
[gun firing]

285
00:15:53.703 --> 00:15:55.538
...it's gonna be bad."

286
00:15:55.622 --> 00:15:58.500
So, my instinct
is to go to the man

287
00:15:58.583 --> 00:16:00.627
that I go to whenever
I'm in trouble,

288
00:16:00.710 --> 00:16:03.254
and that man is my father.

289
00:16:03.296 --> 00:16:06.800
My father was, obviously,
a big gangster
outside of the house,

290
00:16:06.883 --> 00:16:09.636
but what he did
outside of the house
never reflected in the house.

291
00:16:09.719 --> 00:16:12.430
He was such a good father.

292
00:16:12.472 --> 00:16:15.809
He would bend over backwards
if he knows that can he help
me or Gerard.

293
00:16:17.477 --> 00:16:19.187
[Sammy] I have
a split personality,

294
00:16:19.270 --> 00:16:21.106
part of me is a lion

295
00:16:22.565 --> 00:16:23.817
and part of me is a lamb.

296
00:16:27.904 --> 00:16:29.656
This is a great memory.

297
00:16:29.739 --> 00:16:32.325
-Put 'em up, G.
-Okay, Dad.

298
00:16:32.409 --> 00:16:33.576
[Sammy] Here's what I did
in a the mob,

299
00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:35.620
when I was making money
I bought a farm.

300
00:16:35.662 --> 00:16:38.540
All right, Gerard!

301
00:16:38.623 --> 00:16:42.669
And I bought them horses,
and mini bikes, and chickens,

302
00:16:42.752 --> 00:16:46.131
and you name it,
it was a farm.

303
00:16:46.172 --> 00:16:48.717
See, that's when they stop
on my foot.

304
00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:51.678
Friday night,
I left the mob behind me

305
00:16:52.429 --> 00:16:53.430
and I did this.

306
00:16:56.141 --> 00:17:00.854
I found happiness
away from a violent lifestyle.

307
00:17:02.689 --> 00:17:04.691
When I was there
I wasn't in the mafia.

308
00:17:05.692 --> 00:17:08.611
I wasn't a hitman,
I was a dad.

309
00:17:10.530 --> 00:17:12.866
Look at the smile
on his face as a kid.

310
00:17:12.949 --> 00:17:14.325
And my son's like a cowboy.

311
00:17:14.367 --> 00:17:15.785
Nice day
on the tracks, Gerard...

312
00:17:19.664 --> 00:17:22.000
I kept Gerard
away from the mafia,

313
00:17:22.041 --> 00:17:23.501
a lot of guys
bring their kids in.

314
00:17:25.127 --> 00:17:29.382
I'd never had intentions
of bringing my son
into the life.

315
00:17:32.177 --> 00:17:34.596
So, when I heard
Gerard was selling drugs

316
00:17:34.679 --> 00:17:38.308
I was so angry,
I wanted to get him
outta that business.

317
00:17:41.561 --> 00:17:43.313
[Gerard] I remember
sitting in my house,

318
00:17:43.396 --> 00:17:45.398
I was by myself,
I was watching TV.

319
00:17:47.317 --> 00:17:50.236
Next thing I know,
my front door
comes crashing in.

320
00:17:51.905 --> 00:17:56.409
It's my father.
He runs up to me, tackles me,
and he's like,

321
00:17:56.493 --> 00:17:58.828
"What the fuck are you doing?
What are you thinking?

322
00:17:58.912 --> 00:18:02.415
You wanna go to New York?
You wanna fucking sell drugs?"

323
00:18:02.499 --> 00:18:05.085
I said, "You can't
come here and deal drugs."

324
00:18:05.168 --> 00:18:08.171
[Gerard] He felt like
I was going behind his back,

325
00:18:08.254 --> 00:18:12.342
doing something
that could affect him
and the entire family.

326
00:18:12.425 --> 00:18:16.638
I didn't want him
going into New York
for fear for his life.

327
00:18:16.721 --> 00:18:18.390
[Gerard] And he shook me
and he said,

328
00:18:18.431 --> 00:18:19.307
"Do you wanna die?

329
00:18:19.391 --> 00:18:20.725
I'll kill you
if you wanna die.

330
00:18:20.767 --> 00:18:24.521
I'm not gonna
let anyone else kill my son.
I'm not gonna allow it."

331
00:18:24.604 --> 00:18:26.231
[Sammy] I tell ya,
I'll kill ya myself.

332
00:18:26.272 --> 00:18:29.192
I said, "I'm not asking you.
I'm telling you, don't do it."

333
00:18:31.027 --> 00:18:35.490
I was here in Phoenix
and moved outta New York
because of his choices.

334
00:18:35.573 --> 00:18:38.410
But I never questioned
his choices.

335
00:18:38.451 --> 00:18:45.208
So me, I'm 22 years old,
and he's in my house
telling me what to do,

336
00:18:45.291 --> 00:18:46.710
questioning my choices.

337
00:18:53.967 --> 00:18:55.385
I didn't need him anymore.

338
00:18:55.468 --> 00:18:57.721
And I wasn't gonna
be told what to do.

339
00:18:57.804 --> 00:18:59.055
And I told him that night,

340
00:18:59.139 --> 00:19:02.267
if he wanted
to go to war with me,
if that's what he wished,

341
00:19:02.976 --> 00:19:03.893
we can do so.

342
00:19:03.977 --> 00:19:06.187
Listen,
I don't give a flying fuck.

343
00:19:06.271 --> 00:19:08.648
We'll go to war
[snaps fingers] like that.

344
00:19:10.442 --> 00:19:13.653
[Gerard] My father
was so devastated
that he just left.

345
00:19:18.908 --> 00:19:19.826
I went to New York

346
00:19:20.952 --> 00:19:23.288
I think I got, like,
30,000 hits of ecstasy.

347
00:19:25.749 --> 00:19:27.417
I brought it back to Arizona.

348
00:19:28.793 --> 00:19:30.837
We got rid of them in a week.

349
00:19:33.673 --> 00:19:35.800
We made $90,000 profit.

350
00:19:35.842 --> 00:19:38.386
I was very successful.

351
00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:42.182
I didn't come to Arizona
to sell drugs, but I was
built for this shit.

352
00:19:44.517 --> 00:19:45.518
I thrived in it.

353
00:19:46.478 --> 00:19:47.687
At that point,

354
00:19:47.771 --> 00:19:50.565
I wanted to control
the ecstasy scene
here in Arizona

355
00:19:50.648 --> 00:19:52.525
and no one was gonna stop me.

356
00:19:59.282 --> 00:20:02.202
But then one day, Mike Papa,
started telling me

357
00:20:02.285 --> 00:20:05.497
about some guy
that's undercutting us.

358
00:20:05.538 --> 00:20:08.833
And that his prices
were considerably lower

359
00:20:08.875 --> 00:20:11.044
and that we would
not be able to compete.

360
00:20:13.213 --> 00:20:15.715
And that's how I learned
about the rave scene
in Arizona.

361
00:20:16.966 --> 00:20:19.219
[Karen] There's this
whole underbelly,

362
00:20:19.302 --> 00:20:20.929
this whole lifestyle
of people,

363
00:20:21.012 --> 00:20:22.514
that once the clubs close

364
00:20:22.555 --> 00:20:25.308
they're in the middle
of the desert
having rave parties.

365
00:20:27.394 --> 00:20:31.314
[Gerard] And the person
who threw these raves
was a guy named English Shaun.

366
00:20:33.358 --> 00:20:35.694
He controlled
the ecstasy trade
in Arizona.

367
00:20:39.698 --> 00:20:41.491
I told Mike Papa,
"Let's talk to him.

368
00:20:41.574 --> 00:20:43.159
Maybe we can
get a better deal."

369
00:20:43.243 --> 00:20:47.455
I'm not expecting to get them
for what he's getting
them for.

370
00:20:47.539 --> 00:20:50.875
But I expected
to get it cheaper
and we could all be happy.

371
00:20:52.085 --> 00:20:54.379
So we decided
to contact English Shaun.

372
00:21:03.221 --> 00:21:05.432
[Shaun] My mantra was,
"Greed is good."

373
00:21:06.349 --> 00:21:08.685
It's fuck or be fucked
in this world.

374
00:21:10.228 --> 00:21:12.897
Whatever it takes,
I'm gonna make the most money,

375
00:21:12.939 --> 00:21:14.357
whatever means possible.

376
00:21:15.442 --> 00:21:18.069
At the peak
of the criminal enterprise,

377
00:21:18.111 --> 00:21:20.864
I had approximately
200 people working for me.

378
00:21:20.947 --> 00:21:25.368
The profits over the years
was over $5 million dollars.

379
00:21:25.452 --> 00:21:28.872
And the street market value
of those drugs

380
00:21:28.955 --> 00:21:30.540
in the 10s of millions.

381
00:21:35.253 --> 00:21:38.840
I controlled the ecstasy scene
in Arizona.

382
00:21:38.923 --> 00:21:41.885
One of my biggest markets
was at a club called
The Ice House.

383
00:21:43.261 --> 00:21:47.766
The Ice House
was the epicenter
of the rave scene.

384
00:21:47.807 --> 00:21:49.684
And it was there
that my master salesman,

385
00:21:49.768 --> 00:21:51.728
Schooly, made the most money.

386
00:22:00.945 --> 00:22:01.988
[Schooly] This place
is different.

387
00:22:02.989 --> 00:22:04.115
A lot different.

388
00:22:10.080 --> 00:22:11.164
I'm Schooly.

389
00:22:11.247 --> 00:22:12.999
I was English Shaun's
number one salesman.

390
00:22:14.167 --> 00:22:15.794
We ran the ecstasy market

391
00:22:15.835 --> 00:22:17.837
in Phoenix
through this location.

392
00:22:24.344 --> 00:22:28.098
Phoenix in the '90s
was a very special place.

393
00:22:28.181 --> 00:22:31.518
Raves were new to me
and new to everybody
around us.

394
00:22:32.686 --> 00:22:34.145
It was like a wonderland.

395
00:22:37.357 --> 00:22:39.359
There was a place
where light wouldn't come in,

396
00:22:39.442 --> 00:22:42.529
where you could
step back in the shadows
and nobody could see you.

397
00:22:42.612 --> 00:22:46.533
They could see everybody else,
but they couldn't see past
the shadow line.

398
00:22:46.616 --> 00:22:48.702
And that's where I would
sell pills all night.

399
00:22:50.203 --> 00:22:53.915
I could make $14,000, $15,000,
$18,000 here in a night.

400
00:22:53.998 --> 00:22:57.210
Like, my pockets
would be out to here
with money stuffed into 'em,

401
00:22:57.293 --> 00:22:58.211
by the end of the night.

402
00:22:59.838 --> 00:23:02.632
Everyone came
to English Shaun's parties

403
00:23:02.716 --> 00:23:05.051
'cause you knew
you could get
the best pills there.

404
00:23:07.345 --> 00:23:09.848
But then everything
started changing.

405
00:23:13.143 --> 00:23:15.562
There was a guy that usually
would get pills from us.

406
00:23:16.730 --> 00:23:20.191
On day he said,
"Hey, check these out."

407
00:23:20.233 --> 00:23:22.902
And he had these other pills
we had never seen before.

408
00:23:23.903 --> 00:23:26.698
I'm like, "Man,
where you getting these?"

409
00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:32.704
All of a sudden
a new type of ecstasy dealer
starts to appear on the scene,

410
00:23:33.913 --> 00:23:38.543
run by two guys
called Gerard Gravano
and Mike Papa.

411
00:23:39.711 --> 00:23:43.506
These guys are massive,
muscle bound,

412
00:23:43.590 --> 00:23:47.177
steroid head,
jock, type characters.

413
00:23:48.553 --> 00:23:50.305
Probably not dressing
like ravers.

414
00:23:50.388 --> 00:23:54.267
[Schooly] They have
tight shirts on,
always gel in their hair.

415
00:23:54.351 --> 00:23:56.311
Like, mafia wannabes.

416
00:23:56.394 --> 00:23:57.896
The Sopranos
must have been their bible

417
00:23:57.937 --> 00:24:00.190
'cause that's
how they all acted.

418
00:24:00.273 --> 00:24:01.441
They were there to just...

419
00:24:02.275 --> 00:24:04.986
make money and lift weights.

420
00:24:05.070 --> 00:24:08.031
I don't know what the fuck
those kids do.

421
00:24:08.114 --> 00:24:11.576
[Shaun] They became
the biggest threat
to the organization.

422
00:24:20.210 --> 00:24:26.508
[Gerard] Every time
I reached out to English Shaun
he refused to meet me.

423
00:24:26.591 --> 00:24:29.886
The way I grew up,
and it goes back to New York,
there was that mentality

424
00:24:29.928 --> 00:24:33.807
in my head
that you're refusing
to come in to talk to me.

425
00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:37.477
And my feeling
was immediate disrespect.

426
00:24:37.560 --> 00:24:41.189
So, Mike Papa asked me,
"Well, what are we gonna do?"

427
00:24:41.272 --> 00:24:43.900
I said, "I'm not gonna
let anyone disrespect me."

428
00:24:45.568 --> 00:24:49.906
I said to Mike Papa,
"Let's go to one
of Shaun's raves."

429
00:24:49.948 --> 00:24:52.033
I wanted to send a message
back to Shaun,

430
00:24:53.201 --> 00:24:54.536
so we go to The Ice House.

431
00:25:01.418 --> 00:25:02.877
Wow. The Ice House.

432
00:25:02.961 --> 00:25:04.796
I use to come here
back in the day.

433
00:25:04.879 --> 00:25:07.549
Me, and Mike Papa,
a bunch of my friends.

434
00:25:09.092 --> 00:25:11.261
I was on planet Mars
when I walked in here.

435
00:25:12.804 --> 00:25:17.475
It was a bunch of kids
really, running around,
waving glow sticks,

436
00:25:18.643 --> 00:25:20.645
sucking on pacifiers,

437
00:25:20.729 --> 00:25:23.314
they were like
a bunch of babies jumping,
bouncing off walls.

438
00:25:25.483 --> 00:25:29.738
We used to just disperse
and ask who was selling drugs.

439
00:25:30.613 --> 00:25:32.657
This kid came running
right up to us.

440
00:25:32.741 --> 00:25:35.952
He's like, "What'd you want?
I got this kind, this kind,
this kind."

441
00:25:35.994 --> 00:25:38.872
And I said, "Okay.
I want more. Do you got more?"

442
00:25:38.955 --> 00:25:41.708
I'm like, "I'll pay
$20 apiece, I don't care.

443
00:25:41.791 --> 00:25:43.877
I don't care,
just get me a couple hundred."

444
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.838
He ran around the club
probably gathered
from all his little friends.

445
00:25:46.921 --> 00:25:50.258
And he came back, he said,
"I have this, this, and this.

446
00:25:50.342 --> 00:25:53.178
Three different kinds,
it's $200."

447
00:25:53.261 --> 00:25:55.263
I said, "All right,"
and I just took 'em.

448
00:25:57.307 --> 00:25:58.600
He said, "What're you doing?"

449
00:25:58.683 --> 00:26:00.185
I said, "Go tell Shaun

450
00:26:00.935 --> 00:26:02.228
that Gerard took his shit.

451
00:26:02.312 --> 00:26:03.938
And if you don't
walk outta here right now

452
00:26:04.022 --> 00:26:05.523
I'm gonna send you outta here
on a stretcher."

453
00:26:06.941 --> 00:26:09.778
He turned around,
left with his tail
between his legs,

454
00:26:09.861 --> 00:26:10.737
and I sent my message.

455
00:26:10.820 --> 00:26:12.364
I shot my shot.

456
00:26:16.993 --> 00:26:17.994
[phone ringing]

457
00:26:20.038 --> 00:26:21.915
[Shaun] After I found out
that one of my dealers

458
00:26:21.998 --> 00:26:24.209
had been robbed
by Gerard Gravano

459
00:26:24.292 --> 00:26:28.963
I was so determined
not to lose my grip
on the empire.

460
00:26:29.047 --> 00:26:32.967
At that time, in Arizona,
my ego was a big
as the Grand Canyon.

461
00:26:34.010 --> 00:26:36.471
I was a character
in the scene.

462
00:26:36.554 --> 00:26:38.765
I've got all these people
working for me.

463
00:26:38.848 --> 00:26:41.226
I'm the man, Mr. Cool guy.

464
00:26:41.309 --> 00:26:44.145
I was addicted
to the lifestyle.

465
00:26:44.813 --> 00:26:47.399
But rewinding my life back,

466
00:26:47.482 --> 00:26:49.984
it's hard to believe
that I ended up running

467
00:26:50.068 --> 00:26:52.570
an international
ecstasy trafficking operation.

468
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:05.000
I'm from a chemical
manufacturing town
just outside Liverpool

469
00:27:05.083 --> 00:27:06.376
in the Northwest of England.

470
00:27:08.378 --> 00:27:09.838
Didn't have much money
growing up.

471
00:27:09.921 --> 00:27:13.675
My dad was a door-to-door
insurance salesman.

472
00:27:13.758 --> 00:27:18.388
My mom was a stay-at-home mom
in the beginning.

473
00:27:18.430 --> 00:27:23.309
But for me, one of my early
influences was watching
the movie Wall Street.

474
00:27:23.393 --> 00:27:26.980
Where Michael Douglas
played Gordon Gekko,

475
00:27:27.063 --> 00:27:30.650
this corporate
takeover artist.

476
00:27:30.734 --> 00:27:33.611
Greed, for lack
of a better word,

477
00:27:34.446 --> 00:27:36.239
is good.

478
00:27:36.281 --> 00:27:39.325
[Shaun] So, I wanted
to concur the stock market.

479
00:27:39.409 --> 00:27:42.579
I was gonna go out there
make these millions,

480
00:27:42.620 --> 00:27:46.082
and become
something far removed
from what my father was.

481
00:27:54.466 --> 00:27:57.927
Right now, we're on the M62
to Liverpool

482
00:27:57.969 --> 00:28:00.096
where I was doing
my business studies degree.

483
00:28:00.889 --> 00:28:03.224
So, this road
held promise for me

484
00:28:04.225 --> 00:28:07.187
of, not just education

485
00:28:07.270 --> 00:28:11.149
and forever prospects
in the stock market,
and my career.

486
00:28:13.234 --> 00:28:15.153
But also
[chuckling] eventually

487
00:28:16.488 --> 00:28:18.990
the thing that completely
changed my destine,

488
00:28:19.824 --> 00:28:21.117
which was the rave scene.

489
00:28:24.788 --> 00:28:27.665
[reporter] It's been called
a youth-culture of 1988,

490
00:28:28.667 --> 00:28:31.336
the new sound
is called acid house.

491
00:28:31.419 --> 00:28:34.964
And it's not just
a type of music,
it's a movement.

492
00:28:35.006 --> 00:28:37.592
And it's fueled
with the drug ecstasy.

493
00:28:39.344 --> 00:28:42.389
[Shaun] So, when I saw
these people on TV
I'm thinking,

494
00:28:42.472 --> 00:28:43.848
"I want some of that."

495
00:28:43.890 --> 00:28:48.853
Because I was a shy,
anxious teenager,
no way would I dance.

496
00:28:48.937 --> 00:28:52.649
The thought of dancing
just mortified me.

497
00:28:52.691 --> 00:28:56.820
And then that very first time
I went to the Thunderdome,
all that changed.

498
00:28:58.655 --> 00:29:00.031
When I showed up
at the Thunderdome

499
00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:03.034
my mate scored some ecstasy.

500
00:29:03.118 --> 00:29:05.161
He says,
"You gotta neck the pill."

501
00:29:09.207 --> 00:29:10.875
So, about 30 minutes in

502
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:13.461
the ecstasy starts to hit.

503
00:29:14.713 --> 00:29:17.674
My body's getting all warm,
my head's tingling,

504
00:29:17.716 --> 00:29:19.509
I've got goosebumps
on my arms,

505
00:29:19.551 --> 00:29:21.136
it's tickling
running up the spine,

506
00:29:21.219 --> 00:29:24.973
my t-shirt feels like
it's melting into my body.

507
00:29:26.016 --> 00:29:29.978
I look up, I'm just smiling
this massive grin.

508
00:29:30.061 --> 00:29:34.566
Boom, boom, boom, boom.

509
00:29:34.649 --> 00:29:37.527
The whole room's moving
this rocking motion.

510
00:29:38.653 --> 00:29:40.572
We're doing this, doing this,

511
00:29:41.239 --> 00:29:43.241
this, and this.

512
00:29:43.324 --> 00:29:45.660
Finally, for my first time
in my life,

513
00:29:46.411 --> 00:29:47.746
I'm loving dancing.

514
00:29:48.580 --> 00:29:50.206
I'm enjoying dancing.

515
00:29:51.416 --> 00:29:53.043
I never want to stop dancing.

516
00:29:54.419 --> 00:29:58.673
When I took ecstasy,
all that stress and tension
melted away.

517
00:30:00.925 --> 00:30:04.971
From that moment on,
raving became my religion.

518
00:30:05.055 --> 00:30:06.931
I never wanted
the party to end.

519
00:30:11.436 --> 00:30:16.191
I sat my final exam
for my degree coming down
off ecstasy.

520
00:30:16.274 --> 00:30:18.318
So, I had all these beeps
and beats,

521
00:30:18.401 --> 00:30:23.239
[mimicking rave music]
going off in my brain

522
00:30:23.281 --> 00:30:26.451
as I'm doing
all these balance,
and payments,

523
00:30:26.534 --> 00:30:29.204
equations, pages
and pages of calculus.

524
00:30:30.789 --> 00:30:31.623
However,

525
00:30:32.957 --> 00:30:34.084
I aced the test.

526
00:30:34.793 --> 00:30:36.753
I've got my education,

527
00:30:36.795 --> 00:30:40.840
and all I can think about now
is going over to America,

528
00:30:40.924 --> 00:30:44.552
concurring the stock market,
and becoming a millionaire
by the time I'm 30.

529
00:30:46.137 --> 00:30:48.973
My Aunt Sue lived in Phoenix.

530
00:30:50.475 --> 00:30:56.815
So, in May 1991,
I'm embarking on my journey
to Arizona.

531
00:30:59.484 --> 00:31:01.194
When I arrived in Phoenix

532
00:31:01.277 --> 00:31:03.488
all I had
was my student credit cards.

533
00:31:03.571 --> 00:31:08.576
But I was so determined
whatever it takes,
I'm gonna rise up in America.

534
00:31:13.415 --> 00:31:18.003
My first two years in Phoenix
was a penny stock
brokerage outfit,

535
00:31:18.086 --> 00:31:20.547
I'm barely making ends meet.

536
00:31:20.630 --> 00:31:22.757
I'm running out of money
on my student credit cards.

537
00:31:22.841 --> 00:31:26.886
But as we get to years
three and four

538
00:31:26.970 --> 00:31:30.223
I start becoming the guy
who's getting the most leads.

539
00:31:30.306 --> 00:31:33.476
[chuckles] And my commissions
are going through the roof.

540
00:31:33.518 --> 00:31:38.606
By 1996 I'm the top producer
and stock broker.

541
00:31:38.690 --> 00:31:41.276
My commissions for that year
were over $500,000.

542
00:31:45.530 --> 00:31:48.658
It was then that I realized
the money was great.

543
00:31:48.700 --> 00:31:53.204
But I was getting
burnt out on the rat race,
I needed an escape.

544
00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:57.125
And then one night I went
to the Silver Dollar Club.

545
00:31:58.543 --> 00:32:00.795
Entering the Silver
Dollar Club,

546
00:32:00.879 --> 00:32:03.423
could feel the goosebumps
on my arms

547
00:32:03.506 --> 00:32:09.220
as I saw the DJ,
strobe lights,
hands in the air.

548
00:32:09.304 --> 00:32:15.727
The music that I'd enjoyed
in England was just creeping
into the Arizona scene.

549
00:32:15.810 --> 00:32:17.729
So I said,
"We gotta get some ecstasy."

550
00:32:18.897 --> 00:32:21.816
So, we're looking around
and there was this big guy,

551
00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:26.738
Moo his name was,
with a bull ring
through his nose.

552
00:32:26.821 --> 00:32:31.451
And he's the guy
who hooked us up with ecstasy
for the first time in Phoenix.

553
00:32:31.534 --> 00:32:35.372
So, as soon as that kicked in,
then I was just right at home.

554
00:32:35.413 --> 00:32:38.208
Dancing my ass off
all night long.

555
00:32:38.249 --> 00:32:39.709
Talking to strangers.

556
00:32:39.751 --> 00:32:41.836
Meeting the DJs.

557
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:44.506
I was having the absolute
time of my life.

558
00:32:50.845 --> 00:32:55.225
Ecstasy was virtually
impossible to source
in Phoenix, Arizona.

559
00:32:55.266 --> 00:32:58.353
The most we could get
from the local dealers
was 50 to 100.

560
00:32:58.436 --> 00:33:01.314
In the beginning,
I was just showing off

561
00:33:01.398 --> 00:33:03.608
giving them to my friends
for free.

562
00:33:03.692 --> 00:33:06.861
But the demand for ecstasy
is so high

563
00:33:06.945 --> 00:33:10.615
I can't even get enough
to hook up my friends.

564
00:33:10.699 --> 00:33:14.160
So, I'm seeing that there
is an arbitrage opportunity.

565
00:33:14.244 --> 00:33:16.579
If we can find out
where these guys
are getting them from,

566
00:33:16.621 --> 00:33:20.083
there's a possibility here
of making a lot of cash fast.

567
00:33:23.294 --> 00:33:25.880
Found out that the locals
were getting them

568
00:33:25.964 --> 00:33:31.136
from this surfer, gangster guy
called Saul out of California.

569
00:33:31.219 --> 00:33:35.265
Arranged a meeting with Saul
and do my first

570
00:33:35.306 --> 00:33:39.436
interstate, bulk
ecstasy transaction.

571
00:33:44.107 --> 00:33:46.901
And they were going
for $25 to $30 back then.

572
00:33:46.985 --> 00:33:49.279
Those pills were gone
in one weekend.

573
00:33:53.491 --> 00:33:57.245
Now I saw
this other path of parting,

574
00:33:57.996 --> 00:34:00.123
chemical fueled happiness.

575
00:34:00.165 --> 00:34:04.210
A lure
that completely demolished

576
00:34:04.294 --> 00:34:06.338
the worth of wall street
side of me.

577
00:34:07.505 --> 00:34:11.551
That's when I made
the decision to go full-time

578
00:34:11.634 --> 00:34:14.971
and try making money
from ecstasy and raves.

579
00:34:16.681 --> 00:34:21.978
And that's when the guy
nicknamed Schooly
came into my life.

580
00:34:26.024 --> 00:34:29.235
At the beginning,
I'm like, "Hey, man.
I wanna get a bunch of pills.

581
00:34:29.319 --> 00:34:30.737
I wanna make some money.

582
00:34:30.820 --> 00:34:33.614
Like, I really don't
have a place to live,
I need to get my hustle on."

583
00:34:35.324 --> 00:34:36.993
[Shaun] He was living rough.

584
00:34:37.034 --> 00:34:40.246
Smoking crack,
eating out of dumpsters.

585
00:34:40.330 --> 00:34:44.376
And people warned me
to avoid him.

586
00:34:44.458 --> 00:34:49.255
But my attitude
was to give everybody
an opportunity.

587
00:34:49.339 --> 00:34:53.176
He said, "If you can
get rid of these pills for me,
I'll give you a job."

588
00:34:53.217 --> 00:34:55.094
[snaps fingers]
He sold 'em like that.

589
00:34:55.178 --> 00:34:58.223
I think English Shaun
first saw me as an investment.

590
00:34:58.306 --> 00:35:00.475
And then it turned into
a friendship,

591
00:35:00.558 --> 00:35:02.227
and then into a brotherhood.

592
00:35:02.310 --> 00:35:05.355
And we just
hung out all the time,
we partied together.

593
00:35:05.397 --> 00:35:09.067
And we called each other
Little Brother
and Big Brother.

594
00:35:09.150 --> 00:35:10.360
[British accent]
Little Brother.

595
00:35:10.402 --> 00:35:12.153
[regular voice] I could
count on him for anything.

596
00:35:12.237 --> 00:35:14.072
He got me out of a lot
of problems and...

597
00:35:15.323 --> 00:35:16.199
he did a lot for me.

598
00:35:16.241 --> 00:35:19.119
He made sure
I had a place to live,

599
00:35:19.202 --> 00:35:22.914
he paid for everything,
and in return, I made him
a lot of money, you know.

600
00:35:27.252 --> 00:35:29.295
[Shaun] With Schooly
at my side

601
00:35:29.379 --> 00:35:32.674
I was at the top of a
multimillion-dollar monopoly.

602
00:35:32.757 --> 00:35:36.052
But eventually all monopolies
attract competition.

603
00:35:44.185 --> 00:35:47.856
[Gerard] English Shaun
was selling the finest.

604
00:35:47.897 --> 00:35:52.235
This guy's gonna knock us
outta business 'cause we can't
even compete with him anymore.

605
00:35:52.318 --> 00:35:55.113
So, to take out
English Shaun's empire

606
00:35:55.196 --> 00:35:57.407
I needed to step-up
our supply.

607
00:35:59.242 --> 00:36:02.746
Somehow we got on the road
and go back and forth
to New York.

608
00:36:04.414 --> 00:36:06.249
That was just picking up
50,000 pills.

609
00:36:08.752 --> 00:36:10.837
We were selling these things
so quick.

610
00:36:12.047 --> 00:36:13.882
I had different looking pills
than Shaun's,

611
00:36:13.923 --> 00:36:16.301
they were red and white,
they were everywhere.

612
00:36:16.384 --> 00:36:18.595
And everyone knew
they were coming from me.

613
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:24.934
Shaun had to be feeling
the pressure.

614
00:36:31.066 --> 00:36:34.527
[Shaun] We started noticing
a new flood of colored pills
hitting the market.

615
00:36:36.279 --> 00:36:39.157
I knew we needed
to step-up our game.

616
00:36:39.240 --> 00:36:42.702
So, I started flying Schooly
directly to LA
to ramp up our buys.

617
00:36:43.787 --> 00:36:45.789
Pre-9/11 security was easy.

618
00:36:46.790 --> 00:36:50.001
No dogs, no Homeland Security.

619
00:36:50.085 --> 00:36:53.630
You could walk from your car
to the gate without going
through any security.

620
00:36:54.547 --> 00:36:56.424
But in LA, any bag
that you have

621
00:36:56.466 --> 00:36:58.635
you have to send through
the X-ray machine.

622
00:36:58.718 --> 00:37:00.970
I'm trying to figure out
a new way every time

623
00:37:01.054 --> 00:37:03.348
to get these pills
back on the plane with me.

624
00:37:03.431 --> 00:37:05.725
Nobody can see anything
taped to your legs

625
00:37:05.809 --> 00:37:09.521
when you're wearing
huge JNCO jeans
going through security.

626
00:37:09.604 --> 00:37:13.483
I could have probably taped
a German shepherd [chuckling]
to my legs and got through.

627
00:37:14.984 --> 00:37:17.153
I got really nervous
all the time

628
00:37:17.237 --> 00:37:20.824
'cause I didn't know
if this was gonna be the time
that I go to jail or not.

629
00:37:22.909 --> 00:37:24.744
But nothing ever happened.

630
00:37:24.828 --> 00:37:27.956
I had a stack
of plane tickets
like this.

631
00:37:27.997 --> 00:37:32.669
I don't know how many times
I went to LA, probably
75-80 times.

632
00:37:35.922 --> 00:37:38.383
[reporter] Ecstasy,
the euphoric happy pills,

633
00:37:38.466 --> 00:37:41.094
are the dynamic fuel
that propel all-night
rave parties

634
00:37:41.177 --> 00:37:43.888
to go on, and on, and on.

635
00:37:43.972 --> 00:37:49.936
Over the last two years
America has seen a 71%
increase in teen ecstasy use.

636
00:37:50.020 --> 00:37:53.815
[reporter] Researchers
are now linking ecstasy
to fatal high blood pressure,

637
00:37:53.857 --> 00:37:57.152
killer kidney trouble,
and even deadly heart failure.

638
00:37:57.193 --> 00:38:01.823
It's dangerous,
it's addictive, it's deadly,
and it needs to stop.

639
00:38:06.828 --> 00:38:12.167
I didn't know anything
about ecstasy until I got told
that I was gonna supervise

640
00:38:12.208 --> 00:38:14.252
a teenage enforcement squad

641
00:38:14.336 --> 00:38:16.546
to try to lower
the teenage drug use

642
00:38:16.629 --> 00:38:18.506
in the Phoenix
metropolitan area.

643
00:38:18.548 --> 00:38:21.009
We actually inserted
detectives in high schools

644
00:38:21.051 --> 00:38:23.636
and did the whole
21 Jump Street thing.

645
00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:25.972
Not knowing where it was gonna
take us.

646
00:38:26.056 --> 00:38:29.809
That's when we first
found out about this
ecstasy-rave-club-culture.

647
00:38:33.646 --> 00:38:36.232
I always listened
to '80s rock.

648
00:38:36.316 --> 00:38:39.611
Some harder stuff like AC/DC,
and Led Zeppelin,

649
00:38:39.694 --> 00:38:42.197
and I'm from New Jersey,
so of course
Bruce Springsteen.

650
00:38:43.907 --> 00:38:47.577
But this club, rave scene
was not that, I can tell ya.

651
00:38:50.038 --> 00:38:53.500
During our surveillance,
I remember me parked
outside one of the raves.

652
00:38:55.085 --> 00:38:59.964
I just remember seeing
the crazy lights,

653
00:39:00.048 --> 00:39:04.803
and the thumping
of that techno music
just vibrating our whole car.

654
00:39:04.886 --> 00:39:08.223
And we were like,
"What in the heck did we
get ourselves into?"

655
00:39:10.892 --> 00:39:13.603
I think we were
one of the first units
in the country

656
00:39:13.687 --> 00:39:18.066
that actually proactively
went into the raves
and started making buys.

657
00:39:18.108 --> 00:39:21.403
Matt Shay's probably
one of the best undercover
officers I've seen.

658
00:39:22.237 --> 00:39:23.655
I was just in my mid-twenties.

659
00:39:23.738 --> 00:39:26.783
We had a lot of fun going out
and making undercover buys.

660
00:39:26.866 --> 00:39:29.452
Rose was on the same squad,

661
00:39:29.536 --> 00:39:32.789
she's prefect for the part,
this beautiful, young, narc.

662
00:39:32.872 --> 00:39:36.960
Super easy for her
to get in with a crowd,
she fit right in.

663
00:39:37.043 --> 00:39:39.879
As a young child I wanted
to be a Charlie's Angel,

664
00:39:39.963 --> 00:39:42.882
and so it was fun
being somebody else.

665
00:39:43.591 --> 00:39:45.427
Did my hair up goofy like.

666
00:39:45.468 --> 00:39:47.095
Put some, you know,
pink in there.

667
00:39:47.137 --> 00:39:50.557
And just kinda made ourselves
free-loving, I guess,
you could say.

668
00:39:52.976 --> 00:39:56.813
During the investigation
I worked undercover
at The Ice House.

669
00:40:00.650 --> 00:40:03.278
When I came in
I was just shocked.

670
00:40:04.279 --> 00:40:08.241
It was just super-crazy loud.

671
00:40:08.324 --> 00:40:11.494
Thump, thump,
thump, thump, thump.
Over and over again.

672
00:40:14.164 --> 00:40:16.708
'Cause they were
using ecstasy.

673
00:40:16.791 --> 00:40:20.712
A lot of them were underage
17, 18, 19 year olds.

674
00:40:20.795 --> 00:40:22.130
Pretty much as soon
as we walked in

675
00:40:22.172 --> 00:40:26.301
people started
coming over and asking,
do we want anything.

676
00:40:26.343 --> 00:40:28.136
And we just started
making buys.

677
00:40:28.178 --> 00:40:29.846
[James] We didn't make arrests
right away.

678
00:40:29.929 --> 00:40:32.015
One guy would come to a rave
with 1,000 pills

679
00:40:33.016 --> 00:40:34.809
and put 'em in the hands
of 20 kids

680
00:40:34.851 --> 00:40:36.728
and then let them
go out and sell.

681
00:40:36.811 --> 00:40:40.106
So, we were trying to identify
the next level up.

682
00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:43.610
[Rose] When we started
asking around about
who was behind the drugs,

683
00:40:43.693 --> 00:40:46.696
the same guy kept coming up
over and over again.

684
00:40:49.491 --> 00:40:51.659
And that was English Shaun.

685
00:40:51.701 --> 00:40:53.870
[Matthew] He was a major
supplier of ecstasy.

686
00:40:53.953 --> 00:40:56.373
He was an entrepreneur
in drug dealing, right?

687
00:40:56.456 --> 00:40:58.291
He provided the whole package.

688
00:40:58.375 --> 00:41:00.919
And hand over fist,
he made a ton of money.

689
00:41:01.002 --> 00:41:05.632
But he's not the only guy
that sells ecstasy
in this town.

690
00:41:05.715 --> 00:41:08.677
[Rose] During
the investigation we found out
there was another seller

691
00:41:08.718 --> 00:41:12.138
infringing on English Shaun.

692
00:41:12.222 --> 00:41:14.683
[James] And that's how
we ended up bouncing into
Mike Papa.

693
00:41:15.725 --> 00:41:17.894
Mike Papa was involved
in a variety of crimes,

694
00:41:17.977 --> 00:41:19.771
and one of those crimes
is selling drugs

695
00:41:19.854 --> 00:41:21.898
in the metro Phoenix area.

696
00:41:21.981 --> 00:41:25.485
[James] So, when we started
looking at Mike Papa we were
in a whole different league.

697
00:41:25.568 --> 00:41:26.736
You know,
they didn't go to raves,

698
00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:29.698
they didn't go
to that lower-end
street level stuff.

699
00:41:29.739 --> 00:41:33.243
They were
in the high-end clubs
in Scottsdale.

700
00:41:33.326 --> 00:41:37.580
[Rose] He was more
about money, and looks,
and being important.

701
00:41:37.664 --> 00:41:41.418
He was not about partying
and looking like a raver.

702
00:41:52.929 --> 00:41:55.682
[James]
That was a phone call
that we captured

703
00:41:55.765 --> 00:41:58.309
on our wire tap
form Mike Papa's phone.

704
00:41:58.393 --> 00:42:01.479
That call was significant
because Mike Papa's phone

705
00:42:01.563 --> 00:42:04.107
was registered back
to Marathon Construction.

706
00:42:05.942 --> 00:42:10.905
So, another detective and I
went to that location
to do some surveillance.

707
00:42:12.699 --> 00:42:14.242
I was looking
through binoculars

708
00:42:14.909 --> 00:42:16.244
and I was like, "Oh, my God!

709
00:42:17.245 --> 00:42:18.538
I can't believe it.

710
00:42:19.706 --> 00:42:21.124
It's Sammy
'The Bull' Gravano."

711
00:42:49.319 --> 00:42:50.570
[Matthew] That's fantastic,
yeah.

712
00:42:50.653 --> 00:42:52.822
Bring him on in Phoenix
and drop him down
on top of us

713
00:42:52.906 --> 00:42:54.324
and then leave him alone.
That's a great idea.

714
00:42:55.992 --> 00:42:57.160
The investigators thought,

715
00:42:57.202 --> 00:42:59.454
"All right, if Sammy's gonna
come and play in our sandbox

716
00:42:59.496 --> 00:43:00.455
then we're gonna
get him dirty."

717
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.508
[Gerard] I'm gonna tell ya
a story about Dad.

718
00:43:11.591 --> 00:43:15.887
My father, he never sold drugs
his entire life
in the streets.

719
00:43:15.929 --> 00:43:18.431
And he could've made
millions of dollars
selling drugs.

720
00:43:19.349 --> 00:43:20.433
He never did it.

721
00:43:20.517 --> 00:43:24.145
When I was in a powerhouse,
in New York,

722
00:43:24.229 --> 00:43:28.566
drugs were coming in, heroin,
I was never involved.

723
00:43:28.608 --> 00:43:31.277
I didn't want that kinda heat
or those kinda people.

724
00:43:33.279 --> 00:43:35.115
[Gerard] Look, now his son
is selling drugs.

725
00:43:35.198 --> 00:43:39.244
Obviously, he knew.
He stayed away a little bit.

726
00:43:39.285 --> 00:43:42.372
I guess he was probably trying
to think how he could approach

727
00:43:42.455 --> 00:43:47.210
the situation
in a different way
to get me to stop.

728
00:43:49.379 --> 00:43:52.048
And then, one day,
he came to me and said,

729
00:43:52.132 --> 00:43:55.301
"Hey, how can I help you
get outta this whole thing?"

730
00:43:55.385 --> 00:43:59.180
And I didn't want him going
to New York anymore.

731
00:43:59.264 --> 00:44:02.684
[Gerard] I said,
"Okay, you want us
out of this,

732
00:44:02.767 --> 00:44:06.479
we need to make
about three or four big buys,
we need cash."

733
00:44:08.648 --> 00:44:11.526
We needed a $150,000 per buy.

734
00:44:11.609 --> 00:44:15.238
I would've never accepted that
back in Staten Island.

735
00:44:15.321 --> 00:44:19.909
But I became
a little more liberal
than I normally was.

736
00:44:19.993 --> 00:44:22.537
I didn't wanna bully him
or do anything like that.

737
00:44:22.620 --> 00:44:25.957
I wanted him
to understand that for himself
to wanna pull away.

738
00:44:25.999 --> 00:44:27.250
So, I said, "Listen.

739
00:44:28.501 --> 00:44:31.504
if I fund four deals,

740
00:44:32.339 --> 00:44:33.798
four big deals,

741
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:36.968
would you give me your word
that you guys would quit?

742
00:44:37.844 --> 00:44:39.471
You'd have a pocket
full of money

743
00:44:39.512 --> 00:44:42.515
and then come with me
in a legitimate businesses."

744
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.060
[Gerard] He explained
that there's heat
that comes with this,

745
00:44:45.143 --> 00:44:47.020
there's long prison sentences.

746
00:44:47.103 --> 00:44:49.439
You can't do this
for a long period of time.

747
00:44:49.522 --> 00:44:52.359
So, four deals
and then you're done.

748
00:44:53.276 --> 00:44:56.279
But I want interest
on my money.

749
00:44:56.363 --> 00:44:58.365
Like, I would lend it out
as a gangster.

750
00:44:58.448 --> 00:45:01.117
Yeah, of course my father
was gonna take his cut
off of it.

751
00:45:01.201 --> 00:45:03.870
My father's still who he is.
He's still Sammy "The Bull."

752
00:45:06.873 --> 00:45:08.375
[Gerard] And we all sat there
and agreed.

753
00:45:09.167 --> 00:45:12.045
And I funded four deals.

754
00:45:15.382 --> 00:45:17.050
[Gerard]
With my father's money,

755
00:45:17.133 --> 00:45:20.136
me and Mike
can now muscle into
Shaun's LA connection.

756
00:45:23.890 --> 00:45:25.934
[Shaun] Gerard Gravano
and Mike Papa

757
00:45:26.017 --> 00:45:28.895
expanded their source
from New York to LA.

758
00:45:28.978 --> 00:45:31.147
So, I did something radical.

759
00:45:31.231 --> 00:45:34.025
I'm thinking, "We need
to take this to Holland."

760
00:45:35.318 --> 00:45:36.861
[reporter] Amsterdam
is a lesser-known side

761
00:45:36.903 --> 00:45:39.656
the tourist guides
tend to omit.

762
00:45:39.739 --> 00:45:44.119
Over 90% of ecstasy
is manufactured in Holland.

763
00:45:44.202 --> 00:45:47.831
Shaun started to look
to Amsterdam to find pills.

764
00:45:47.914 --> 00:45:49.416
And they were less
than half the price,

765
00:45:49.499 --> 00:45:53.628
they were $2 or $3 a pill
versus $8.50 a pill.

766
00:45:53.712 --> 00:45:56.089
Somebody just had to fly
over there and get 'em.

767
00:45:58.842 --> 00:46:01.302
[Shaun] We had people
fly over to Holland,

768
00:46:01.386 --> 00:46:02.721
picked up the pills,

769
00:46:04.597 --> 00:46:06.766
flew to Mexico City,

770
00:46:06.850 --> 00:46:10.854
and brought in the pills
over the Arizona border
from Mexico.

771
00:46:13.064 --> 00:46:17.819
Shipment sizes increased
from the 5,000 to 10,000
I could get out of LA

772
00:46:17.902 --> 00:46:23.658
up to 10s of thousands
of pills per load.

773
00:46:23.742 --> 00:46:30.206
The most we brought in
was 40,000 pills stacked
in computer towers.

774
00:46:30.290 --> 00:46:34.336
So, you're talking
hundreds of thousands
of dollars profit.

775
00:46:34.419 --> 00:46:37.756
In the beginning,
we were wrapping the money,
it was going into sports bags.

776
00:46:37.797 --> 00:46:40.258
But the money
started coming in so fast

777
00:46:40.300 --> 00:46:42.969
I had to figure out strategies
to launder it.

778
00:46:45.138 --> 00:46:46.848
To maximize my profits,

779
00:46:46.931 --> 00:46:50.268
I drew on all of the knowledge
I'd gleaned

780
00:46:50.310 --> 00:46:52.562
from my business
studies education.

781
00:46:53.980 --> 00:46:59.069
I flew people from the UK,
opened bank accounts
in their names,

782
00:46:59.152 --> 00:47:01.738
opened stock market accounts
in their names.

783
00:47:01.821 --> 00:47:04.115
And once that money
went into that account

784
00:47:04.157 --> 00:47:08.745
it then went
into a spider's web
of various accounts

785
00:47:09.329 --> 00:47:10.580
in the stock market.

786
00:47:12.457 --> 00:47:15.293
It's been said
that I ultimately ended up

787
00:47:15.335 --> 00:47:18.380
with a case
of gangster capitalism.

788
00:47:18.463 --> 00:47:20.757
I would never
consider myself a gangster.

789
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:24.928
I would say that I was
a business graduate nerd

790
00:47:25.011 --> 00:47:28.264
that had a huge case
of gangsteritis.

791
00:47:28.348 --> 00:47:29.849
And gangsteritis

792
00:47:30.767 --> 00:47:33.186
means that I've watched
too many movies

793
00:47:33.269 --> 00:47:37.482
and TV programs
like Miami Vice and Scarface.

794
00:47:37.524 --> 00:47:40.610
I was attracted
to the adrenaline,
and the buzz,

795
00:47:40.694 --> 00:47:42.987
and the glamorization
of that world.

796
00:47:44.948 --> 00:47:47.325
Myself and my friends
would joke

797
00:47:47.367 --> 00:47:49.369
we're living like characters
out of a movie.

798
00:47:49.452 --> 00:47:51.746
Blah, blah, blah,
we'll never get caught.

799
00:47:51.830 --> 00:47:54.290
We had all of these
grandiose delusions.

800
00:47:56.459 --> 00:48:00.005
[reporter] While illegal
drug laboratories persist
in producing ecstasy

801
00:48:00.046 --> 00:48:03.133
Congress has recently enforced
stringent new prison sentences

802
00:48:03.216 --> 00:48:05.260
for those engaged
in trafficking drugs.

803
00:48:05.343 --> 00:48:08.388
There's no doubt
about where these raves are.

804
00:48:09.222 --> 00:48:10.223
In the middle of the desert.

805
00:48:10.890 --> 00:48:12.726
Arrest the promoter.

806
00:48:15.353 --> 00:48:18.815
[James] We had
two investigations
going on at the same time.

807
00:48:18.898 --> 00:48:21.735
And then when Sammy
"The Bull" popped up
during a surveillance

808
00:48:21.818 --> 00:48:24.237
the Gravano investigation
became our main focus.

809
00:48:25.905 --> 00:48:27.907
Once we knew
that Marathon Construction

810
00:48:27.991 --> 00:48:30.076
was associated
with Sammy "The Bull" Gravano

811
00:48:31.411 --> 00:48:33.455
we went out there,
2:00 or 3:00 in the morning,

812
00:48:33.538 --> 00:48:36.041
and break into his office
and install some art bugs.

813
00:48:39.919 --> 00:48:40.879
[phone ringing]

814
00:48:50.930 --> 00:48:53.391
[James] As our
investigation advanced,

815
00:48:53.433 --> 00:48:56.603
we started learning
what their daily habits were

816
00:48:56.686 --> 00:48:58.813
and some
of the important locations.

817
00:48:58.897 --> 00:49:03.985
Marathon Construction,
the second being Sammy
"The Bull's" apartment.

818
00:49:04.069 --> 00:49:07.238
And then,
Uncle Sal's Restaurant,
which is in Scottsdale.

819
00:49:08.448 --> 00:49:10.325
They would do drug deals

820
00:49:10.408 --> 00:49:13.995
either in the front
parking lot or the back
parking lot.

821
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.998
It was an excellent place
for us to be able to identify

822
00:49:17.082 --> 00:49:20.710
different members
of the organization
interacting with each other.

823
00:49:20.794 --> 00:49:24.214
It was right out of a movie
about mobsters,
quite honestly, right?

824
00:49:24.297 --> 00:49:25.507
They would all come in,

825
00:49:25.590 --> 00:49:28.093
shake hands,
and have a great time.

826
00:49:28.134 --> 00:49:31.596
Sit in the back
and allegedly discuss business
and whatever else.

827
00:49:31.638 --> 00:49:32.931
[operatic music playing]

828
00:49:36.434 --> 00:49:39.145
[Gerard] At this time,
our sales dropped
dramatically.

829
00:49:39.229 --> 00:49:41.981
We were now only selling
10,000 pills a week.

830
00:49:42.065 --> 00:49:47.112
And I knew English Shaun
was selling up to
140,000 a week.

831
00:49:47.153 --> 00:49:50.573
I knew a couple of his dealers
and I called them in.

832
00:49:50.657 --> 00:49:52.450
We told 'em,
"Tell English Shaun

833
00:49:53.785 --> 00:49:55.286
Arizona is ours.

834
00:49:56.996 --> 00:49:59.874
Every pill he sells
from here on out

835
00:49:59.958 --> 00:50:03.962
he needs to pay us 50%
on every pill
he fucking sells."

836
00:50:06.172 --> 00:50:08.299
So, they went and brought
that message to him.

837
00:50:14.848 --> 00:50:18.101
[Shaun] I heard that Gerard
and Papa were threatening
to tax my sales.

838
00:50:20.520 --> 00:50:22.063
I had to take
this threat seriously

839
00:50:22.147 --> 00:50:24.941
because his operation
was being funded
by none other than...

840
00:50:25.942 --> 00:50:27.610
Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.

841
00:50:27.694 --> 00:50:30.989
I'm thinking, "What the hell
is going on here?"
I couldn't believe it.

842
00:50:35.702 --> 00:50:38.288
In my mind,
I'm running the calculation.

843
00:50:39.289 --> 00:50:41.875
Sammy "The Bull,"
he's wacked a bunch of people,

844
00:50:42.959 --> 00:50:44.669
but he's no longer
with the mafia.

845
00:50:47.213 --> 00:50:50.884
I wasn't going to backdown,
but I knew I needed
to increase my security.

846
00:50:53.386 --> 00:50:58.141
This picture
is myself and Wild Man,
my best friend from childhood.

847
00:50:58.224 --> 00:51:01.019
Wild Man always had my back.
He would take a bullet for me.

848
00:51:02.354 --> 00:51:03.813
And as crazy as it sounds,

849
00:51:03.897 --> 00:51:05.440
growing up,
Wild Man reminded me

850
00:51:05.523 --> 00:51:07.817
of a character
from one of my Marvel Comics.

851
00:51:10.403 --> 00:51:16.534
This maniac that's got
these massive muscles
and brute force strength,

852
00:51:16.576 --> 00:51:20.747
who's about to crush
Ironman's head in
with this rock

853
00:51:21.581 --> 00:51:23.333
symbolizes Wild Man.

854
00:51:26.419 --> 00:51:28.838
So, I flew Wild Man
from England to Phoenix.

855
00:51:32.717 --> 00:51:36.012
[Schooly] He fit that role,
it worked out so well.

856
00:51:36.096 --> 00:51:38.473
You owed money,
Wild Man would go collect.

857
00:51:38.556 --> 00:51:39.599
If there was a problem

858
00:51:39.683 --> 00:51:41.267
or somebody
was threatening you,

859
00:51:41.351 --> 00:51:42.769
you brought Wild Man with you.

860
00:51:42.852 --> 00:51:44.604
I've seen him...

861
00:51:44.688 --> 00:51:47.232
hit people
and knock 'em five feet
into a refrigerator.

862
00:51:47.273 --> 00:51:48.900
I mean, he was a big

863
00:51:49.609 --> 00:51:50.735
brick shithouse.

864
00:51:52.529 --> 00:51:55.073
[Shaun] Now,
we had a protective shield.

865
00:51:55.115 --> 00:51:57.450
But I was wondering how long
the peace would last.

866
00:52:04.457 --> 00:52:06.042
[Schooly] I was at a club
one night,

867
00:52:08.253 --> 00:52:10.296
two kids came up to buy pills.

868
00:52:11.464 --> 00:52:13.633
Went to the bathroom
to make the deal.

869
00:52:16.636 --> 00:52:20.056
Stuck my hand
in my pocket to get the pills
and next thing I know...

870
00:52:22.225 --> 00:52:23.643
I'm lying on the floor.

871
00:52:24.728 --> 00:52:27.230
And I'm like, "What the fuck
just happened?"

872
00:52:28.815 --> 00:52:29.733
I was knocked out.

873
00:52:30.483 --> 00:52:33.236
Two of 'em sucker punched me.

874
00:52:33.319 --> 00:52:37.866
Checked my pockets,
my money was gone,
my pills were gone.

875
00:52:37.949 --> 00:52:40.326
I'm like, "Ah, hell no.
This is some bullshit."

876
00:52:43.163 --> 00:52:44.748
[Shaun] When information
came in

877
00:52:44.831 --> 00:52:49.544
that some of the Gravano
people linked to the attack
on Schooly were our property

878
00:52:49.627 --> 00:52:53.840
Wild Man jumped up and said,
"Let's go over there
right away.

879
00:52:53.923 --> 00:52:56.634
Nobody fucking
rips the English off!"

880
00:53:01.181 --> 00:53:04.309
Four car loads
showed up to this house,
12 o'clock at night.

881
00:53:05.935 --> 00:53:08.646
[Shaun] There was a bunch
of us armed to the teeth.

882
00:53:08.688 --> 00:53:11.691
[Schooly] One person
knocked on the door,
soon as they opened the door

883
00:53:12.359 --> 00:53:14.235
everybody in the house.

884
00:53:14.319 --> 00:53:16.988
[Shaun] So, we're charging
into this house.

885
00:53:17.614 --> 00:53:18.865
Guns drawn.

886
00:53:20.283 --> 00:53:22.660
It's almost like your brain
goes in slow-motion.

887
00:53:25.288 --> 00:53:28.875
And I can hear
Wild Man yelling,
"Don't fucking move!"

888
00:53:30.502 --> 00:53:31.711
It's like a fucking movie.

889
00:53:33.672 --> 00:53:37.050
We went through every room.
We took everything
outta that house.

890
00:53:37.133 --> 00:53:41.763
PlayStations, VCRs,
TVs, shoes.

891
00:53:41.846 --> 00:53:45.850
I mean, if it was worth $5
it came outta that house
into somebody's car,

892
00:53:45.892 --> 00:53:47.227
we cleaned that house out.

893
00:53:47.310 --> 00:53:49.688
We didn't get the drugs back,
but we got everything
they owned.

894
00:53:51.815 --> 00:53:53.858
[Shaun] And we just took off
into the night after that.

895
00:53:57.320 --> 00:54:03.451
When I found out,
my first reaction
was anger and rage.

896
00:54:03.535 --> 00:54:06.246
And everyone's
looking at me, like,
"What are you gonna do?"

897
00:54:08.206 --> 00:54:10.750
The way I grew up,
this is how people get killed.

898
00:54:11.334 --> 00:54:12.210
I said, "Okay."

899
00:54:12.293 --> 00:54:14.462
I put the word out there
to everyone I knew,

900
00:54:14.546 --> 00:54:18.008
the second someone sees
English Shaun to call us.

901
00:54:18.091 --> 00:54:20.593
I need to know where he's at,
I need to find him.

902
00:54:24.848 --> 00:54:28.601
I can't be disrespected.
Everyone was watching,
everyone.

903
00:54:29.769 --> 00:54:32.147
So, one night
I got a phone call

904
00:54:32.230 --> 00:54:37.152
telling me that English Shaun
was at the Crowbar.

905
00:54:37.235 --> 00:54:41.197
Four, five of us
got in the car, we headed down
to the Crowbar.

906
00:54:41.281 --> 00:54:45.285
I had two or three guns on me
and I had a shovel
in the back of my car.

907
00:54:45.368 --> 00:54:49.539
Plan was to walk up to him,
choke him out,
put him to sleep,

908
00:54:49.622 --> 00:54:52.167
carry him out,
put him in the car.

909
00:54:52.250 --> 00:54:55.086
I was prepare to kill him
and bury him in the desert.

910
00:55:00.884 --> 00:55:03.094
[Gerard] We pull right up
to the Crowbar.

911
00:55:06.848 --> 00:55:08.266
We all walked in,

912
00:55:09.893 --> 00:55:12.604
place was crowed,
people dancing.

913
00:55:14.356 --> 00:55:16.274
We were looking
for English Shaun.

914
00:55:27.702 --> 00:55:28.787
But I couldn't find him.

915
00:55:30.580 --> 00:55:31.539
He was gone.

916
00:55:39.089 --> 00:55:41.925
[Shaun] It's downhill
from there, it just gets more
and more dangerous.

917
00:55:43.968 --> 00:55:47.555
I no longer felt safe
living in the Phoenix area.

918
00:55:48.598 --> 00:55:50.725
[Schooly] Everybody got
real protected.

919
00:55:50.809 --> 00:55:52.560
And everybody's
getting violent

920
00:55:52.644 --> 00:55:55.230
and it's not raving,
it's not fun anymore.

921
00:55:55.313 --> 00:55:56.981
Now it's...

922
00:55:57.065 --> 00:55:59.275
who's gonna get shot?
Who's gonna get kidnapped?

923
00:55:59.317 --> 00:56:02.946
Like, who's gonna get robbed?
Like... And this
is an everyday thing.

924
00:56:05.281 --> 00:56:06.825
Everything was falling apart.

925
00:56:08.618 --> 00:56:12.997
And then, I was told
that Sammy "The Bull"
had a hit out on me.

926
00:56:13.081 --> 00:56:17.502
They were offering
$10,000 for my head
on a silver platter.

927
00:56:17.585 --> 00:56:21.339
Now, I was having dreams
at night of people bursting
through the door,

928
00:56:23.174 --> 00:56:26.344
putting a gun to my face,
taking me out to the desert.

929
00:56:29.431 --> 00:56:32.517
I was in a living hell.

930
00:56:32.600 --> 00:56:36.521
I was doing more drugs
and the side effects
were rising in the background.

931
00:56:37.022 --> 00:56:37.856
Paranoia,

932
00:56:39.524 --> 00:56:43.361
the malnourishment,
the sleepless nights,

933
00:56:44.696 --> 00:56:47.032
the mental deterioration.

934
00:56:48.616 --> 00:56:51.494
Everything just seemed to go
down all at the same time,

935
00:56:51.536 --> 00:56:55.457
my organization
and my psychology.

936
00:56:55.540 --> 00:56:59.127
[Schooly] And now Gravano's
were flooding the market
with 1,000s of pills,

937
00:56:59.210 --> 00:57:01.212
so our business dried up.

938
00:57:01.296 --> 00:57:03.548
Like, the money
wasn't there anymore.

939
00:57:03.631 --> 00:57:06.634
They took all the market.
They killed our empire.

940
00:57:20.065 --> 00:57:23.943
[Rose] We knew that Mike Papa
and Gerard pushed
English Shaun out.

941
00:57:24.027 --> 00:57:29.199
And Gerard became
the king of ecstasy with Sammy
as the money behind it.

942
00:57:30.867 --> 00:57:32.827
[James] During our Papa
and Gravano wiretap

943
00:57:32.911 --> 00:57:34.537
we were getting
circumstantial stuff

944
00:57:34.579 --> 00:57:37.165
through Gerard's phone,
Mike Papa's phone.

945
00:57:38.249 --> 00:57:40.251
And then,
we had a breakthrough.

946
00:57:47.759 --> 00:57:51.763
[James] Mike Papa was
negotiating an ecstasy deal
with a supplier in LA.

947
00:57:59.437 --> 00:58:04.609
[James] The deal
was for around $140,000
or 25,000 ecstasy pills.

948
00:58:13.284 --> 00:58:16.538
[James] The next day,
when the confirmation was made
to meet the courier

949
00:58:16.621 --> 00:58:19.290
we followed Mike Papa
to a parking garage.

950
00:58:20.458 --> 00:58:23.712
This meeting and purchase
with the supplier by Papa

951
00:58:23.795 --> 00:58:26.172
was gonna be monumental
in our case.

952
00:58:26.256 --> 00:58:28.800
We're gonna get
one shot at this
and we need to make it happen.

953
00:58:31.469 --> 00:58:33.888
The courier
had the red duffle bag
with the pills.

954
00:58:33.972 --> 00:58:36.725
We watched those drugs
go from the courier to Papa.

955
00:58:38.226 --> 00:58:41.187
And then,
the courier getting out
of Mike Papa's car

956
00:58:41.271 --> 00:58:44.983
with the bag
full of the $140,000.

957
00:58:46.484 --> 00:58:47.944
You know,
in my head I'm thinking,

958
00:58:47.986 --> 00:58:50.947
"Okay, we got Papa,
the courier,

959
00:58:50.989 --> 00:58:53.533
locked down from that deal
in the conspiracy.

960
00:58:53.616 --> 00:58:55.952
Let's see who we get next."

961
00:58:55.994 --> 00:58:59.164
After the meeting,
we continually tracked
Mike Papa.

962
00:59:00.582 --> 00:59:04.336
We were hoping
that he would go back
to where Sammy Gravano was.

963
00:59:05.462 --> 00:59:07.547
And that's exactly
what he did.

964
00:59:07.630 --> 00:59:10.300
We knew he had
the red duffle bag
with the pills.

965
00:59:10.342 --> 00:59:14.512
And we saw him go into
Marathon Construction.

966
00:59:14.596 --> 00:59:16.181
There was another plus that,

967
00:59:16.264 --> 00:59:21.019
"Hey, we're getting closer
to getting Sammy wrapped up
in this whole conspiracy."

968
00:59:25.774 --> 00:59:28.109
Ironically enough,
it was Sammy's mistake

969
00:59:28.193 --> 00:59:31.613
that really solidified
everything and did him in.

970
00:59:31.696 --> 00:59:34.282
This call was significant
because it showed that Sammy

971
00:59:34.366 --> 00:59:39.079
was an active participant
in financing the ecstasy
drug deals.

972
00:59:39.162 --> 00:59:41.998
When he had an argument
with Debra, his ex-wife.

973
00:59:52.801 --> 00:59:56.096
[James] Sammy made a miscount
on the next $70,000 deal

974
00:59:56.179 --> 01:00:00.975
and he called Debbie
and he said, "Hey,
I'm counting it, it's short."

975
01:00:05.814 --> 01:00:08.608
She said, "It shouldn't be.
You know, I counted it myself.

976
01:00:08.692 --> 01:00:11.695
Gave it to your daughter,
Karen. She brought it to ya."

977
01:00:11.736 --> 01:00:13.822
And, you know,
at the same time

978
01:00:13.905 --> 01:00:18.034
we have the hardwired bug
in Marathon hearing
the money counter running.

979
01:00:19.494 --> 01:00:23.832
Continuous slapping
of the money sorting through.

980
01:00:23.915 --> 01:00:28.586
He ends up counting it again
and the recount, you know,
he counts it right.

981
01:00:34.884 --> 01:00:39.014
[James] Sammy making
that miscount and associating
with his family on the phone

982
01:00:40.098 --> 01:00:42.308
was pivotal in our case.

983
01:00:42.392 --> 01:00:48.440
His miscount really solidified
that he was financing
the purchase of the ecstasy.

984
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:53.903
But shortly after that call

985
01:00:55.363 --> 01:00:59.868
he heard an electric
screwdriver that we felt
was very close to our bug.

986
01:00:59.951 --> 01:01:00.952
[screwdriver whirring]

987
01:01:03.121 --> 01:01:05.623
Right after the stop
of the electric screwdriver

988
01:01:06.583 --> 01:01:08.335
you could hear
Sammy get agitated

989
01:01:08.418 --> 01:01:10.462
and then start singing
really loud in Italian.

990
01:01:11.129 --> 01:01:12.130
[Sammy singing]

991
01:01:13.590 --> 01:01:15.133
[James] And then,
walk out the back door.

992
01:01:21.473 --> 01:01:25.685
[Karen] We were all
in the office and my father
had called us outside.

993
01:01:25.769 --> 01:01:28.688
We went in the back
of the Marathon Construction
office and he said,

994
01:01:28.772 --> 01:01:29.773
"Something is going on.

995
01:01:29.814 --> 01:01:31.608
I feel it,
there's a presence here.

996
01:01:31.649 --> 01:01:33.943
I don't know if it's the mob
from New York,

997
01:01:33.985 --> 01:01:35.904
I don't know if cops
are following,

998
01:01:35.987 --> 01:01:38.573
but whatever you guys have,
if you have anything
in the house,

999
01:01:38.656 --> 01:01:40.867
anything's going on,
make sure it's done.

1000
01:01:40.950 --> 01:01:43.870
I don't want it around me,
I don't want it around
any of us."

1001
01:01:43.953 --> 01:01:45.288
And everyone agreed.

1002
01:01:57.467 --> 01:01:59.344
[Sammy] I was in bed.

1003
01:01:59.427 --> 01:02:02.430
And I had a little dog,
he was 6-pounds.

1004
01:02:02.514 --> 01:02:06.601
He'd sleep with me in the bed,
right between my legs,
hanging out.

1005
01:02:06.685 --> 01:02:08.019
And I hear him growling.

1006
01:02:08.103 --> 01:02:10.772
Hair's up on his back
and he's growling.

1007
01:02:10.855 --> 01:02:12.148
[dog barking]

1008
01:02:12.190 --> 01:02:15.026
So, right next to the bed
I had the .357 Magnum.

1009
01:02:16.528 --> 01:02:17.362
I picked it up,

1010
01:02:18.988 --> 01:02:21.324
I moved the blinds
a little bit,

1011
01:02:21.366 --> 01:02:23.618
and when I moved the blinds...

1012
01:02:24.786 --> 01:02:26.830
Police! On the ground!

1013
01:02:26.871 --> 01:02:29.541
[Sammy] ... SWAT teams
came crashing in.

1014
01:02:31.626 --> 01:02:34.462
Kicked, punched,
banged down to the ground.

1015
01:02:37.882 --> 01:02:42.345
I could see out of the corner
of my eye the dog
was fucking flipping out.

1016
01:02:42.387 --> 01:02:43.388
[dog barking]

1017
01:02:46.891 --> 01:02:48.935
I understand
there was 200 cops,

1018
01:02:49.019 --> 01:02:52.731
helicopters, armored vehicles
to arrest me.

1019
01:02:54.232 --> 01:02:55.525
By myself.

1020
01:02:55.608 --> 01:02:58.486
When they opened the door
I had put the gun down,
I had nothing.

1021
01:02:59.237 --> 01:03:00.822
But underwear.

1022
01:03:00.905 --> 01:03:02.490
I don't know
what they thought I was,

1023
01:03:02.574 --> 01:03:05.410
but I think
it was more of a show.

1024
01:03:12.500 --> 01:03:14.669
[James] After we arrested
Sammy "The Bull" Gravano

1025
01:03:14.753 --> 01:03:16.838
we got him down
to our processing center

1026
01:03:16.921 --> 01:03:19.382
and he immediately started

1027
01:03:19.466 --> 01:03:21.926
scanning all the paperwork
on the desk.

1028
01:03:22.010 --> 01:03:25.597
Trying to evaluate,
you know, how bad it is
or what's going on.

1029
01:03:25.680 --> 01:03:28.058
So, I started
telling everybody,
"Hey, flip the papers over."

1030
01:03:28.141 --> 01:03:31.478
He looked up at me right then
and said, "So, you're running
this whole show?"

1031
01:03:32.187 --> 01:03:33.897
And I think my reply was,

1032
01:03:33.980 --> 01:03:35.690
"No. I'm just a working man
like you, Sammy."

1033
01:03:47.202 --> 01:03:50.455
When they took me
in I walked passed cages.

1034
01:03:51.873 --> 01:03:53.958
In one cage I saw my son,

1035
01:03:55.043 --> 01:03:56.211
I saw my daughter,

1036
01:03:57.212 --> 01:03:58.880
I saw my ex-wife.

1037
01:04:00.215 --> 01:04:02.884
I see my whole family
in different cages.

1038
01:04:02.967 --> 01:04:04.135
It broke my heart.

1039
01:04:07.389 --> 01:04:08.890
It really did,
it broke my heart.

1040
01:04:12.644 --> 01:04:14.729
My official charge
was illegal use

1041
01:04:14.813 --> 01:04:18.024
of an electronic
communication
in a drug transaction.

1042
01:04:24.155 --> 01:04:27.325
They believed
that I was someone
that passed messages

1043
01:04:27.409 --> 01:04:30.578
from my father
to the street organization.

1044
01:04:31.746 --> 01:04:34.666
I got probation
because I didn't have priors.

1045
01:04:34.749 --> 01:04:38.878
They didn't really
have too much on my father,
but they had a lot on Gerard.

1046
01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:42.799
The fucked up thing
about this whole thing is
when we all got arrested

1047
01:04:42.882 --> 01:04:46.386
my father had nothing
to do with this, they had
very little to go on with him.

1048
01:04:46.428 --> 01:04:48.471
He may have been looking
at six years.

1049
01:04:48.555 --> 01:04:50.390
I'm looking at 40.
I'm dead-cold.

1050
01:04:50.432 --> 01:04:54.436
I'm wiretaps, there's no way
to get outta this whole thing
for me.

1051
01:04:55.603 --> 01:04:57.439
But then,
the Federal Government
got involved

1052
01:04:57.522 --> 01:04:59.399
and everything went crazy.

1053
01:05:02.610 --> 01:05:06.281
[James] The FBI were so mad
that Sammy went back to crime.

1054
01:05:06.364 --> 01:05:09.534
And, frankly,
I felt like they got
a little egg on their face.

1055
01:05:09.617 --> 01:05:12.662
The most importance to them
was charging Sammy.

1056
01:05:12.746 --> 01:05:15.874
They told me right away that,
"We want this guy.
We wanna prosecute him."

1057
01:05:17.083 --> 01:05:19.961
Sammy "The Bull" was the money
behind the operation.

1058
01:05:22.464 --> 01:05:23.631
was definitely the face.

1059
01:05:35.310 --> 01:05:37.729
[detective speaking]

1060
01:05:44.402 --> 01:05:45.904
[detective speaking]

1061
01:05:54.329 --> 01:05:57.082
When I look at that,
that's bullshit.

1062
01:05:57.165 --> 01:05:58.166
And that's a threat.

1063
01:05:58.249 --> 01:05:59.668
I would like to be sitting

1064
01:05:59.751 --> 01:06:01.086
in front of that cop...

1065
01:06:02.253 --> 01:06:04.255
...with my .357 Magnum

1066
01:06:04.339 --> 01:06:06.591
pointed in his fucking face,

1067
01:06:06.675 --> 01:06:11.721
and say, "Do you wanna
cooperate with me now
before I pull the trigger?"

1068
01:06:11.805 --> 01:06:13.515
He will be number 20.

1069
01:06:14.808 --> 01:06:16.184
[detective speaking]

1070
01:06:28.446 --> 01:06:31.241
This kid, he broke
before he got in the room.

1071
01:06:31.324 --> 01:06:33.118
He didn't even get
a slap in the face.

1072
01:06:33.201 --> 01:06:37.038
Mob guys in New York,

1073
01:06:37.122 --> 01:06:40.083
you gotta kick their balls
around a little bit...

1074
01:06:40.166 --> 01:06:43.628
...for them to break.
When you're facing
a slap in the face,

1075
01:06:44.379 --> 01:06:46.214
take the slap, motherfucker.

1076
01:06:52.137 --> 01:06:55.265
[Karen]
People would look at that
and say he's a rat, right?

1077
01:06:55.348 --> 01:06:57.392
I look at it and say
he's a snake

1078
01:06:57.475 --> 01:06:58.643
because I think
this was something

1079
01:06:58.727 --> 01:07:00.186
that he was always planning
on doing

1080
01:07:00.228 --> 01:07:01.354
if he got in trouble.

1081
01:07:02.981 --> 01:07:05.400
[Gerard] He knew he was gonna
do that the day he met me.

1082
01:07:06.234 --> 01:07:08.445
In that restaurant
Uncle Sal's,

1083
01:07:08.528 --> 01:07:10.572
when he introduced
himself to me,

1084
01:07:10.655 --> 01:07:12.407
and I agreed
to go out with him,

1085
01:07:12.490 --> 01:07:14.159
he already knew
he was gonna do that.

1086
01:07:14.993 --> 01:07:16.036
He had his mind made up.

1087
01:07:17.245 --> 01:07:19.205
He had a get out of jail
free card.

1088
01:07:19.247 --> 01:07:21.249
And he was gonna betray me
no matter what.

1089
01:07:23.251 --> 01:07:27.088
From the day I started
to the day I got arrested
was six months.

1090
01:07:30.425 --> 01:07:31.885
Even at the age of 77,

1091
01:07:31.926 --> 01:07:33.595
if I can get off this chair
quick enough,

1092
01:07:33.678 --> 01:07:35.013
I will probably break
the fucking chair

1093
01:07:35.096 --> 01:07:36.097
right over his head.

1094
01:07:36.181 --> 01:07:37.724
Not so much what he did to me.

1095
01:07:39.100 --> 01:07:41.269
What he did to my son

1096
01:07:41.353 --> 01:07:42.937
who treated him
like a brother.

1097
01:07:45.940 --> 01:07:47.984
[Rose] When it came down
to everything,

1098
01:07:48.068 --> 01:07:51.196
Mike Papa ratted out Sammy,

1099
01:07:51.279 --> 01:07:55.658
which is ironic because Sammy
did that do to the Mafia.

1100
01:07:55.742 --> 01:07:57.786
What do you want me
to say about this?
This is bullshit.

1101
01:07:59.788 --> 01:08:02.665
I cooperated
because John Gotti
did something

1102
01:08:02.749 --> 01:08:04.125
that was a rat move.

1103
01:08:04.876 --> 01:08:06.503
His defense was trying to say

1104
01:08:06.586 --> 01:08:09.589
that I was killing everybody
and taking over everything.

1105
01:08:09.631 --> 01:08:14.219
So the theory was
I would go away
and he would go free.

1106
01:08:14.302 --> 01:08:18.598
In my mind I said,
"Then fuck you,
fuck the Mafia,

1107
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:21.434
and I'm leaving,
and I'm gonna switch sides."

1108
01:08:21.475 --> 01:08:23.019
Whatever happens, happens.

1109
01:08:23.103 --> 01:08:25.604
So I decided to walk
the fuck away

1110
01:08:25.647 --> 01:08:27.857
from the Mafia and him.

1111
01:08:27.941 --> 01:08:30.068
Now, can I get rid
of this fucking thing?

1112
01:08:32.487 --> 01:08:34.863
Now, even with Mike Papa,

1113
01:08:34.948 --> 01:08:37.367
my lawyers were telling me,
"You could beat this,

1114
01:08:37.450 --> 01:08:38.993
but they're gonna
bury your son.

1115
01:08:40.328 --> 01:08:41.871
Your wife is pinched.

1116
01:08:41.955 --> 01:08:43.832
Your daughter is pinched."

1117
01:08:43.915 --> 01:08:46.459
When I asked the lawyer,
"Then what do they want?"

1118
01:08:47.252 --> 01:08:49.170
"They want you, Sammy.

1119
01:08:50.255 --> 01:08:52.590
They want you to say
you're the boss of it.

1120
01:08:52.674 --> 01:08:55.260
They want you to say
you ran it all,

1121
01:08:55.343 --> 01:08:56.678
you took over Arizona,

1122
01:08:56.761 --> 01:08:58.138
you did everything."

1123
01:08:59.514 --> 01:09:02.434
[Gerard] And they told him,
"You need to take 20 years,

1124
01:09:03.518 --> 01:09:05.729
and we'll let your wife,
your daughter go,

1125
01:09:05.812 --> 01:09:08.189
we'll give your son
a light sentence,"

1126
01:09:08.273 --> 01:09:11.609
which 10 years to them
was a light sentence.

1127
01:09:11.693 --> 01:09:13.694
"But you have to take
20 years."

1128
01:09:15.947 --> 01:09:18.198
And I told my lawyer,
"Make the deal.
I did it all."

1129
01:09:20.160 --> 01:09:21.661
And that's exactly what I did.

1130
01:09:26.124 --> 01:09:28.542
Am I a rat?
I took fucking 20 years

1131
01:09:28.626 --> 01:09:30.670
to help my kids and my family.
Is that a rat?

1132
01:09:33.048 --> 01:09:35.966
He didn't sacrifice himself
the first time
with John Gotti,

1133
01:09:36.051 --> 01:09:38.136
wouldn't do it for nothing.

1134
01:09:38.219 --> 01:09:41.514
But for his family,
he fell on the sword.

1135
01:09:46.310 --> 01:09:48.313
I think we all have to admit

1136
01:09:48.395 --> 01:09:49.606
that we have not stopped

1137
01:09:49.689 --> 01:09:51.149
the flow of ecstasy
with this case.

1138
01:09:51.232 --> 01:09:52.649
What we have done
with this case

1139
01:09:52.734 --> 01:09:54.819
is shut down
a major drug organization

1140
01:09:54.903 --> 01:09:56.821
that was operating
in this valley,

1141
01:09:56.905 --> 01:10:00.116
and hopefully
send a message that, um,

1142
01:10:00.200 --> 01:10:01.743
we will take action.

1143
01:10:03.745 --> 01:10:07.040
[Shaun]
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano's
ecstasy operation

1144
01:10:07.082 --> 01:10:11.670
had brought unnecessary heat
to the ecstasy scene
in Arizona.

1145
01:10:11.753 --> 01:10:15.465
So I retreated to an apartment
in Scottsdale

1146
01:10:15.548 --> 01:10:19.427
and didn't even let
most of the people
I used to associate know

1147
01:10:19.511 --> 01:10:20.595
where I lived.

1148
01:10:23.765 --> 01:10:27.644
But Schooly, Wild Man,
and his girlfriend, Wild Woman

1149
01:10:27.727 --> 01:10:30.647
remained in Phoenix's
drug-fueled world.

1150
01:10:30.730 --> 01:10:33.024
The closest people
to English Shaun at the time

1151
01:10:33.108 --> 01:10:38.238
would be me, Wild Man,
and Wild Woman.

1152
01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:41.366
She really caused me
more problems than anything.

1153
01:10:41.449 --> 01:10:43.243
She was a pain in the ass,
honestly.

1154
01:10:44.619 --> 01:10:46.871
This apartment
is Wild Woman's apartment.

1155
01:10:47.956 --> 01:10:52.293
This building has had
so much drugs run through it.

1156
01:10:53.962 --> 01:10:57.132
He didn't hide anything,
it was out in the open.

1157
01:10:57.215 --> 01:11:01.386
She had 300 people a day
running in here, day, night.

1158
01:11:03.763 --> 01:11:05.724
We were gonna get arrested
because of her.

1159
01:11:05.807 --> 01:11:08.184
Everything was
gonna fall apart
because of how many people

1160
01:11:08.268 --> 01:11:10.979
she had running in and out
of this place.

1161
01:11:11.062 --> 01:11:13.815
I never said anything
to English Shaun about that

1162
01:11:13.898 --> 01:11:17.986
'cause at that time,
Shaun and I were on, like,
the fringe

1163
01:11:18.069 --> 01:11:22.365
because Wild Woman started
to kinda come in between
me and Shaun.

1164
01:11:22.449 --> 01:11:24.159
She started to cause a riff.

1165
01:11:24.242 --> 01:11:26.870
She was making up stories
about me, like,

1166
01:11:26.953 --> 01:11:29.998
to make him like her
more than me.

1167
01:11:30.081 --> 01:11:33.668
I just thought,
"This dude's abandoning me,

1168
01:11:33.752 --> 01:11:35.795
he's replacing me
with these other people.

1169
01:11:36.629 --> 01:11:37.672
This is some bullshit."

1170
01:11:39.841 --> 01:11:43.136
I was thinking, "Wild Woman's
fucking everything up."

1171
01:11:43.178 --> 01:11:45.889
I needed to shut
this place down, honestly,

1172
01:11:45.972 --> 01:11:48.475
'cause this was gonna
get us all in trouble.

1173
01:11:51.311 --> 01:11:56.816
I bought this smoke bomb
at the Spy Store
in Downtown Phoenix.

1174
01:12:00.320 --> 01:12:01.613
I went to her house...

1175
01:12:02.864 --> 01:12:06.284
...jumped out of the car,
pulled it out,

1176
01:12:06.368 --> 01:12:08.870
lit it on fire,
as soon as it started sparking

1177
01:12:08.953 --> 01:12:11.373
I went up and pulled it back,
and just [mimics hissing].

1178
01:12:14.209 --> 01:12:16.002
And I just took off running.

1179
01:12:16.044 --> 01:12:18.755
And you could just see smoke
already coming out,

1180
01:12:18.838 --> 01:12:20.340
shooting out the window,

1181
01:12:20.382 --> 01:12:21.675
and you just heard people

1182
01:12:21.716 --> 01:12:23.927
running and screaming
for their lives.

1183
01:12:24.010 --> 01:12:25.887
They had no idea
what the fuck was going on.

1184
01:12:29.641 --> 01:12:32.310
Wild Woman was near the window
when the fire bomb came in.

1185
01:12:33.561 --> 01:12:36.231
It just missed her,
and I think she's got

1186
01:12:36.314 --> 01:12:39.192
something on her face still
to this day.

1187
01:12:39.234 --> 01:12:43.363
[Schooly]
After all that stuff happened
with Wild Man and Wild Woman,

1188
01:12:43.405 --> 01:12:48.827
I thought something bad
was gonna happen to me.

1189
01:12:48.910 --> 01:12:54.499
Wild Man was telling everybody
he was gonna murder Schooly
for fire-bombing his woman.

1190
01:12:55.583 --> 01:12:57.544
Schooly was so fearful
for his life,

1191
01:12:57.585 --> 01:12:58.920
he fled the state.

1192
01:13:00.088 --> 01:13:01.423
I never spoke to him again.

1193
01:13:04.843 --> 01:13:06.094
I had to stay away,

1194
01:13:06.177 --> 01:13:07.262
and that's really
about the time

1195
01:13:07.345 --> 01:13:08.930
that I dipped the fuck out.

1196
01:13:10.098 --> 01:13:11.224
There's no going back.

1197
01:13:12.434 --> 01:13:14.602
It was over
between me and Shaun.

1198
01:13:18.231 --> 01:13:20.608
And then May 16th 2002,

1199
01:13:20.692 --> 01:13:24.612
bam! bam! bam! bam!,
[mimics door opening]
a door flies off its hinges,

1200
01:13:24.696 --> 01:13:27.866
and there's screaming,
"Hands above your head!

1201
01:13:27.949 --> 01:13:30.118
Get on the fucking ground now!

1202
01:13:30.201 --> 01:13:31.703
Don't fucking move!"

1203
01:13:31.786 --> 01:13:34.831
As I dropped to the floor,

1204
01:13:34.914 --> 01:13:38.918
I realized everything
I'd ever done wrong
in my life,

1205
01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:40.754
I now had
to pay the price for.

1206
01:13:40.795 --> 01:13:42.297
They cuffed me,

1207
01:13:42.380 --> 01:13:44.632
and one of the detectives
just hoisted me up...

1208
01:13:45.925 --> 01:13:47.552
...and was in my face,
and he was like,

1209
01:13:47.635 --> 01:13:50.972
English Shaun,
we've finally got you."

1210
01:13:52.390 --> 01:13:54.309
And the question
in my mind was

1211
01:13:55.143 --> 01:13:56.311
"Who betrayed me?"

1212
01:14:02.400 --> 01:14:04.486
[Schooly]
Before they arrested Shaun,

1213
01:14:04.569 --> 01:14:07.572
I got arrested
for cashing bad checks

1214
01:14:07.614 --> 01:14:11.284
because I'm broke
and I spun out on drugs.

1215
01:14:11.368 --> 01:14:15.288
I'm like, "What do I gotta do
to get outta this charge?"

1216
01:14:15.372 --> 01:14:17.457
The cops were like,
"Well, tell me something
I don't know."

1217
01:14:18.708 --> 01:14:22.295
I just told them about
an ecstasy operation.

1218
01:14:23.254 --> 01:14:25.048
I kinda gave them stories,

1219
01:14:25.131 --> 01:14:28.093
rundowns about Wild Man
and English Shaun.

1220
01:14:28.134 --> 01:14:30.178
And he's like, "You gotta
prove it to me.

1221
01:14:30.261 --> 01:14:32.597
"Okay." I said,
"Let me walk out
and go to my house

1222
01:14:32.639 --> 01:14:34.557
and I'll bring you back
a stack of plane tickets

1223
01:14:34.641 --> 01:14:37.227
that show I went to LA
every week.

1224
01:14:37.310 --> 01:14:39.521
And so I brought them back
that stack of ticket stubs,

1225
01:14:39.604 --> 01:14:42.482
and no charges filed,
they let me ride.

1226
01:14:45.235 --> 01:14:50.448
When I found out that Schooly
had gone to the cops,

1227
01:14:50.490 --> 01:14:52.075
I was heartbroken...

1228
01:14:53.451 --> 01:14:56.287
...that my little brother
had gone that far.

1229
01:14:56.329 --> 01:14:57.497
I hadn't anticipated that.

1230
01:15:00.667 --> 01:15:02.669
If you're my big brother
and you got my back,

1231
01:15:03.586 --> 01:15:05.005
then you should always
have my back.

1232
01:15:05.088 --> 01:15:06.881
And if you're gonna discard me

1233
01:15:06.965 --> 01:15:08.675
for these other
fucking people, then...

1234
01:15:10.510 --> 01:15:12.846
...it is what it is, you know.

1235
01:15:12.929 --> 01:15:14.931
I sure as hell ain't gonna
bite the bullet for somebody

1236
01:15:15.015 --> 01:15:16.599
that ain't gonna be there
for me in the end.

1237
01:15:18.977 --> 01:15:20.687
[interviewer speaking]

1238
01:15:23.857 --> 01:15:25.942
Loyalty, and I live by that.

1239
01:15:28.445 --> 01:15:29.946
[interviewer speaking]

1240
01:15:31.031 --> 01:15:32.532
Yeah, always.

1241
01:15:37.662 --> 01:15:39.039
Till the end. [chuckles]

1242
01:15:39.998 --> 01:15:40.999
Until the end.

1243
01:15:41.541 --> 01:15:42.542
Yeah.

1244
01:15:43.293 --> 01:15:45.295
When, uh, when the ship sinks,

1245
01:15:45.378 --> 01:15:47.047
I guess everybody
runs their own way.

1246
01:15:48.131 --> 01:15:49.132
You know.

1247
01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:18.370
[Shaun] I was sentenced
to nine and a half years.

1248
01:16:18.411 --> 01:16:21.498
I served 26 months
in Sheriff Joe Arpaio's

1249
01:16:21.581 --> 01:16:24.542
Maricopa County Jail system,

1250
01:16:24.584 --> 01:16:28.171
the jail system that had
the highest rate of death
in America.

1251
01:16:30.507 --> 01:16:35.053
And to my shock and surprise,
my prison mate was none other
than Gerard Gravano.

1252
01:16:39.391 --> 01:16:41.476
One day, Gerard told me
about his plans

1253
01:16:41.559 --> 01:16:44.562
the night he came
looking for me
at the Crobar Nightclub.

1254
01:16:44.604 --> 01:16:47.273
I hadn't realized how close
I'd come to death.

1255
01:16:53.196 --> 01:16:56.866
It's been about 23 years
since the last time
I was here.

1256
01:16:58.201 --> 01:17:00.745
Came in right in
this back door right here.

1257
01:17:00.787 --> 01:17:02.956
We were here looking
for English Shaun.

1258
01:17:03.957 --> 01:17:06.543
Place was crowded,
people dancing.

1259
01:17:08.545 --> 01:17:10.380
But he was gone
before I got here.

1260
01:17:11.381 --> 01:17:12.924
As we walking
in this back door,

1261
01:17:12.966 --> 01:17:14.300
he was walking
out the front door.

1262
01:17:15.301 --> 01:17:17.595
We missed him
literally by seconds.

1263
01:17:17.637 --> 01:17:18.888
[crowd cheering]

1264
01:17:19.556 --> 01:17:21.141
But I was relieved actually

1265
01:17:21.224 --> 01:17:24.269
at the end of the day
that he wasn't here...

1266
01:17:24.310 --> 01:17:27.147
...because I was prepared
to kill him that night
in the desert...

1267
01:17:28.732 --> 01:17:31.317
...only because it was
expected of me.

1268
01:17:34.779 --> 01:17:36.114
People expected me
to be violent,

1269
01:17:36.156 --> 01:17:37.949
people expected me
to go on robberies

1270
01:17:37.991 --> 01:17:40.618
because I was the son
of "Sammy the Bull."

1271
01:17:41.661 --> 01:17:45.331
I was pushed to be
someone I'm really not.

1272
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:49.002
I grew up in the shadow
of the "Bull."

1273
01:17:58.678 --> 01:18:01.473
-[doves cooing]
-Well, growing up
in Staten Island,

1274
01:18:01.514 --> 01:18:03.975
in our backyard
we had these doves.

1275
01:18:04.017 --> 01:18:06.686
We had a pigeon coop,
and we used to have feed.

1276
01:18:06.770 --> 01:18:11.441
But by having these,
stray, real ugly gray pigeons
used to come.

1277
01:18:11.524 --> 01:18:13.860
But we used to have a BB gun.

1278
01:18:13.943 --> 01:18:17.655
And we used to shoot them,
and they used to fall
off the roof,

1279
01:18:17.697 --> 01:18:20.992
die, and put them in a bag,
and throw them away,
it was pretty normal.

1280
01:18:21.701 --> 01:18:23.661
One day, I hit the bird...

1281
01:18:23.703 --> 01:18:25.205
[pigeon coos]

1282
01:18:25.288 --> 01:18:28.333
...and he rolled off my roof
and hit the floor.

1283
01:18:28.375 --> 01:18:29.876
But he wasn't dead.

1284
01:18:29.959 --> 01:18:31.503
So I cocked the gun again,

1285
01:18:31.544 --> 01:18:33.338
I was gonna shoot him.

1286
01:18:33.380 --> 01:18:35.256
My father said,
"No, don't shoot him."

1287
01:18:35.340 --> 01:18:37.300
He said, "I want you
to pick him up,

1288
01:18:37.384 --> 01:18:40.178
and I want you
to snap his neck
and throw him in the bag."

1289
01:18:41.554 --> 01:18:42.639
I looked at the bird.

1290
01:18:44.307 --> 01:18:46.142
I looked at my father.

1291
01:18:46.226 --> 01:18:48.478
I said, "I can't do it.
I just can't

1292
01:18:48.561 --> 01:18:50.730
fucking snap his neck
and throw him in the bag."

1293
01:18:50.814 --> 01:18:52.816
I could not fucking do it.

1294
01:18:55.193 --> 01:18:59.698
That's my father testing me
to see am I cut out
for that life in the Mafia?

1295
01:19:00.490 --> 01:19:01.491
And I wasn't.

1296
01:19:02.492 --> 01:19:03.993
I didn't pass his test.

1297
01:19:05.245 --> 01:19:07.330
And the same thing
happened here in Arizona.

1298
01:19:07.414 --> 01:19:09.165
They expected me
to kill people.

1299
01:19:11.042 --> 01:19:12.752
Mike Papa was in my ear,

1300
01:19:12.836 --> 01:19:13.920
"You're being disrespected,

1301
01:19:14.004 --> 01:19:15.005
you're being disrespected,

1302
01:19:15.088 --> 01:19:16.172
you're being disrespected."

1303
01:19:16.256 --> 01:19:18.675
And then I get a call
that Shaun Attwood

1304
01:19:18.758 --> 01:19:20.760
is here at this place.
And I said, "Okay,

1305
01:19:20.844 --> 01:19:22.595
I'll show you
what disrespect is."

1306
01:19:24.097 --> 01:19:26.057
But ultimately,
at the end of the day,

1307
01:19:26.099 --> 01:19:27.976
I probably couldn't
have done it.
I sit here and say

1308
01:19:28.059 --> 01:19:29.811
that's what I was planning
on doing that night,

1309
01:19:29.894 --> 01:19:31.229
but I may have got him
out to the desert,

1310
01:19:31.271 --> 01:19:32.689
and I just couldn't
have done it.

1311
01:19:41.281 --> 01:19:45.285
So when English Shaun
came into the jail
we formed a friendship.

1312
01:19:45.368 --> 01:19:47.454
I didn't have any problems
with him after that.

1313
01:19:48.705 --> 01:19:49.706
It was over.

1314
01:19:50.290 --> 01:19:51.458
Chapter closed.

1315
01:19:52.959 --> 01:19:55.503
[Shaun] Spending time
with Gerard Gravano in jail,

1316
01:19:55.587 --> 01:19:57.964
he opened up to me
about his struggles,

1317
01:19:58.048 --> 01:20:01.051
the pressure on him
to make a name for himself,

1318
01:20:01.134 --> 01:20:04.596
to be someone,
'cause he's got this dad

1319
01:20:04.637 --> 01:20:06.056
who's a legendary figure.

1320
01:20:07.307 --> 01:20:09.559
And then the threats
to the family's lives.

1321
01:20:11.269 --> 01:20:13.063
The constant need for safety.

1322
01:20:14.898 --> 01:20:17.442
It really opened my heart
to what he'd been through.

1323
01:20:21.946 --> 01:20:24.824
For me,
over the following weeks,

1324
01:20:24.908 --> 01:20:28.411
I started to look back
at the last 10 years
of my life,

1325
01:20:28.495 --> 01:20:29.954
and said to myself,

1326
01:20:29.996 --> 01:20:33.583
"Shaun, my God,
what have you done?

1327
01:20:33.667 --> 01:20:36.086
How on Earth
are you still alive?"

1328
01:20:36.169 --> 01:20:40.215
Doing an increasing amount
of drugs over the years

1329
01:20:40.298 --> 01:20:46.304
had eroded my conscience
and put a cloud in my head
that I didn't know was there.

1330
01:20:46.346 --> 01:20:48.973
I'd surrounded myself
with people

1331
01:20:49.015 --> 01:20:53.228
engaging in equally insane
and criminal behavior,

1332
01:20:53.311 --> 01:20:56.064
and there was nobody
to put the brakes on.

1333
01:20:56.147 --> 01:21:00.694
I had to be pushed
to the brink to get

1334
01:21:00.777 --> 01:21:05.281
the English Shaun persona
crushed out of me.

1335
01:21:07.117 --> 01:21:08.451
It was a moment
of truth for me

1336
01:21:08.535 --> 01:21:10.370
that I'd been trying
to hide from

1337
01:21:10.453 --> 01:21:13.039
throughout the whole time
in Arizona.

1338
01:21:17.627 --> 01:21:21.047
In all these story arcs
of drug trafficking,

1339
01:21:21.131 --> 01:21:23.800
it begins with the glitz,
the glamour, the fun...

1340
01:21:25.051 --> 01:21:28.221
...then the cops, the heat,
the competition,

1341
01:21:28.304 --> 01:21:30.432
and then
the slippery slope down.

1342
01:21:30.515 --> 01:21:32.142
[crows cawing]

1343
01:21:43.403 --> 01:21:45.321
There's a hell of a price
to be paid

1344
01:21:45.405 --> 01:21:47.073
if you get involved
in the lifestyle.

1345
01:21:50.326 --> 01:21:52.245
Most of the men
from my inner circle

1346
01:21:52.328 --> 01:21:55.331
have paid the ultimate price
of death,

1347
01:21:56.082 --> 01:21:57.584
including Wild Man.

1348
01:21:59.711 --> 01:22:01.588
When I found out
that Wild Man had died,

1349
01:22:02.589 --> 01:22:03.923
my brain wouldn't accept it.

1350
01:22:05.258 --> 01:22:07.427
And then the next day,
that was it then,

1351
01:22:07.510 --> 01:22:08.845
that's when it just
started hitting me.

1352
01:22:10.889 --> 01:22:13.016
And there was an owl howling.

1353
01:22:15.602 --> 01:22:18.271
And I hadn't heard
an owl howl where I live.

1354
01:22:19.898 --> 01:22:22.233
And I thought it was him
saying goodbye to me.

1355
01:22:23.735 --> 01:22:25.445
[sniffles]

1356
01:22:31.368 --> 01:22:34.454
Part of owning up to my past
is coming to terms
with the fact

1357
01:22:34.537 --> 01:22:37.207
that I brought my best mate
Wild Man to Arizona.

1358
01:22:38.208 --> 01:22:40.669
He ended up in jail
for seven years.

1359
01:22:40.752 --> 01:22:43.213
And he died a young man
back in our hometown.

1360
01:22:44.255 --> 01:22:46.007
I can't forgive myself
for that

1361
01:22:46.091 --> 01:22:47.425
because it's something
I've got to live with

1362
01:22:47.467 --> 01:22:48.551
for the rest of my life.

1363
01:23:04.275 --> 01:23:05.485
Oh, where were we now?

1364
01:23:05.568 --> 01:23:08.530
[indistinct speaking]

1365
01:23:08.613 --> 01:23:12.951
[Shaun] When I walked
out the gate and saw my mom,
dad, and sister smiling,

1366
01:23:13.034 --> 01:23:15.078
my excitement just went
through the roof

1367
01:23:15.120 --> 01:23:16.705
even though I'd been
awake for days.

1368
01:23:19.040 --> 01:23:23.044
I arrived in Phoenix, Arizona
with no cash,
only credit cards.

1369
01:23:24.087 --> 01:23:27.298
I burnt through millions
over the years.

1370
01:23:31.761 --> 01:23:34.014
And I came back on UK soil

1371
01:23:34.097 --> 01:23:37.809
with a boxful
of worthless belongings
from prison.

1372
01:23:43.773 --> 01:23:46.443
Looking back,
one of my worst memories

1373
01:23:46.484 --> 01:23:49.487
is having to call my parents

1374
01:23:49.571 --> 01:23:53.825
and tell them I'd been
incarcerated for drug dealing.

1375
01:23:56.494 --> 01:23:59.080
I thought I was so smart,
above the law,
never get caught,

1376
01:23:59.164 --> 01:24:02.083
or even if I did get caught,
I could insulate myself
from you guys finding out.

1377
01:24:02.167 --> 01:24:04.294
-Mmm.
-My friends wouldn't
get arrested with me.

1378
01:24:04.336 --> 01:24:06.171
-I've got money over here.
I could get a lawyer.
-Mmm.

1379
01:24:06.254 --> 01:24:07.589
-All that kind of stuff.
-Got it covered.

1380
01:24:09.007 --> 01:24:10.467
But I was wrong,

1381
01:24:10.508 --> 01:24:12.510
it was my own miscalculations.

1382
01:24:13.678 --> 01:24:16.765
Caused absolute devastation
in your lives.

1383
01:24:16.848 --> 01:24:19.934
It was dreadful,
and your mom was in pieces

1384
01:24:20.018 --> 01:24:21.853
'cause we didn't know
what we were gonna do.

1385
01:24:21.936 --> 01:24:24.647
And I think that same night,

1386
01:24:24.689 --> 01:24:27.484
we got a reverse call
from yourself.

1387
01:24:27.525 --> 01:24:31.905
Do you remember?
And it was you with this
frightened voice

1388
01:24:31.988 --> 01:24:36.701
saying, "You need to raise
as much money as possible
to get a good attorney."

1389
01:24:36.785 --> 01:24:38.328
Having to ask you guys
for money

1390
01:24:38.370 --> 01:24:39.913
which was a horrible thing
to do.

1391
01:24:39.996 --> 01:24:41.122
[Shaun's dad] Mmm-hmm.

1392
01:24:41.206 --> 01:24:42.957
But I didn't understand

1393
01:24:43.041 --> 01:24:45.752
the full gravity
'cause I think you were
insulating me at that point.

1394
01:24:45.835 --> 01:24:47.962
It was early on over how that
affected your lives.

1395
01:24:48.046 --> 01:24:48.963
[Shaun's dad] Mmm, oh, yeah.

1396
01:24:49.047 --> 01:24:50.048
We just did what we could.

1397
01:24:50.131 --> 01:24:51.508
And over the years,
as your mom was working,

1398
01:24:51.549 --> 01:24:54.094
she also paid off various

1399
01:24:54.177 --> 01:24:55.762
lawyers' fees and legal fees.

1400
01:24:55.845 --> 01:24:58.306
The other horrible thing
besides the financial impact,

1401
01:24:58.390 --> 01:25:00.141
was my mom's
nervous breakdown.

1402
01:25:01.393 --> 01:25:03.061
[Shaun's dad]
She didn't tell anybody
for months.

1403
01:25:03.144 --> 01:25:05.188
She wouldn't let me
tell anybody.

1404
01:25:07.649 --> 01:25:09.234
[crying] Still feel terrible
for that.

1405
01:25:14.072 --> 01:25:17.492
I feel so guilty, dad,
knowing the suffering
I've put youse through.

1406
01:25:17.575 --> 01:25:19.160
I would never do anything
like that again.

1407
01:25:20.578 --> 01:25:21.579
So sorry, dad.

1408
01:25:22.247 --> 01:25:23.748
It's done. It's passed.

1409
01:25:23.832 --> 01:25:26.042
-As far as I'm concerned,
it's done.
-[sighs]

1410
01:25:26.084 --> 01:25:28.128
We forgive, and there's
nothing to forgive now.

1411
01:25:28.211 --> 01:25:29.713
I wanna thank you so much.

1412
01:25:29.754 --> 01:25:32.882
I mean, just what you've
said today...

1413
01:25:34.175 --> 01:25:37.053
...has made me feel
[chuckles] a lot better
to be honest.

1414
01:25:37.095 --> 01:25:38.888
I'm gonna have to give my dad
a hug, I think.

1415
01:25:38.930 --> 01:25:42.017
-Not too hard.
I'm fragile, I'm fragile.
-[laughing]

1416
01:25:42.100 --> 01:25:44.519
Love you. I love you.
Thank you.

1417
01:25:44.602 --> 01:25:46.855
Thank you. Oh, my God.

1418
01:26:02.912 --> 01:26:04.289
Let me see if I can get that.

1419
01:26:05.874 --> 01:26:07.792
I can't make a shot
if I stood on my head.

1420
01:26:08.918 --> 01:26:10.295
We've been through a lot.

1421
01:26:11.129 --> 01:26:12.130
And here we are.

1422
01:26:13.089 --> 01:26:14.758
In the basement shooting pool.

1423
01:26:14.799 --> 01:26:18.053
And, uh, I think you're
the perfect guy

1424
01:26:18.970 --> 01:26:22.766
to take over
and fit into my shoes.

1425
01:26:22.807 --> 01:26:26.227
Just remember to stay good
and kind with people.

1426
01:26:26.311 --> 01:26:28.772
The family, keep it close.

1427
01:26:28.813 --> 01:26:32.275
And just do the right thing.
Don't make the mistakes
I made.

1428
01:26:32.317 --> 01:26:34.778
I mean, I've been kind-hearted
a lot of...

1429
01:26:34.819 --> 01:26:36.279
a good portion of my life.

1430
01:26:36.321 --> 01:26:41.534
And I do have the ability
to be violent

1431
01:26:41.618 --> 01:26:42.619
even though...

1432
01:26:43.745 --> 01:26:46.373
...it's not, you know,
not what I wanna do,

1433
01:26:46.456 --> 01:26:50.960
or a lot of times I was acting
because I'm your son.

1434
01:26:51.002 --> 01:26:54.130
People expect me to do things.

1435
01:26:54.172 --> 01:26:57.008
-Whether...
-Is that what this whole
ecstasy thing was?

1436
01:26:58.259 --> 01:27:01.554
The drugs. Doesn't matter
what people want you to be.

1437
01:27:01.638 --> 01:27:04.349
Just 'cause I had a big name,
don't live in my shadows.

1438
01:27:05.266 --> 01:27:08.603
And know all the good things
I taught you.

1439
01:27:08.687 --> 01:27:12.315
The bad stuff,
flush it down the bowl.
Get rid of it.

1440
01:27:12.357 --> 01:27:14.150
Step out of the shadows
and be you.

1441
01:27:15.360 --> 01:27:16.569
That's what you gotta be.

1442
01:27:16.653 --> 01:27:17.862
For a long time I had

1443
01:27:17.946 --> 01:27:20.115
a problem doing that.

1444
01:27:20.198 --> 01:27:22.325
I got caught up.
I was out here in Arizona,

1445
01:27:22.367 --> 01:27:24.327
I meet this kid Mike Papa.

1446
01:27:25.161 --> 01:27:27.622
I started to feel like
my old self,

1447
01:27:27.706 --> 01:27:29.124
like I was back in New York.

1448
01:27:29.207 --> 01:27:30.291
What do you think
about it now?

1449
01:27:31.876 --> 01:27:33.545
You think he made you
feel good?

1450
01:27:34.838 --> 01:27:37.257
No, and I should have
seen this from day one.

1451
01:27:37.340 --> 01:27:38.383
It's gone.

1452
01:27:39.134 --> 01:27:42.137
Don't carry baggage on that,

1453
01:27:42.220 --> 01:27:45.557
"You fucked up,
and I went to prison,"
and all of this shit.

1454
01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:47.934
-It... It happens itself.
-It's a heavy burden, though.

1455
01:27:48.018 --> 01:27:50.103
-It's... It's every burden...
I mean...
-No. But get away from it.

1456
01:27:50.186 --> 01:27:52.605
-...I put you in prison.
-Understand you made
a mistake.

1457
01:27:52.689 --> 01:27:56.317
Don't live with it.
It's... It's over,
it's done with.

1458
01:27:56.401 --> 01:27:57.986
We have our lives
started again.

1459
01:27:58.069 --> 01:27:59.529
Don't look
in the rearview mirror,

1460
01:27:59.571 --> 01:28:01.489
you'll never grow.

1461
01:28:01.573 --> 01:28:04.409
Look through the front
windshield, go forward.

1462
01:28:04.492 --> 01:28:06.202
I look at him,
he's a great kid.

1463
01:28:06.244 --> 01:28:07.495
I call him a kid,
he's not a kid,

1464
01:28:07.579 --> 01:28:08.747
he's a man, he's a great man.

1465
01:28:09.330 --> 01:28:11.666
But, uh, my life

1466
01:28:11.750 --> 01:28:14.502
must have added
so much pressure onto him,

1467
01:28:14.586 --> 01:28:15.879
being "Sammy the Bull's" son.

1468
01:28:15.920 --> 01:28:18.089
I think the... the Mafia

1469
01:28:18.173 --> 01:28:19.924
did some damage.

1470
01:28:20.008 --> 01:28:21.885
But it's how you
come out of these things.

1471
01:28:21.926 --> 01:28:24.262
[Gerard] You and mom I think
did a great job.

1472
01:28:24.346 --> 01:28:26.389
raising me and Karen.

1473
01:28:29.392 --> 01:28:31.603
I just try to...

1474
01:28:31.686 --> 01:28:35.857
My whole goal now nowadays
is try to instill what...

1475
01:28:35.940 --> 01:28:39.778
what we were taught growing up
in my kids.

1476
01:28:39.861 --> 01:28:44.949
And I just hope one day
I can be a half as father
as you were.

1477
01:28:45.700 --> 01:28:47.952
[sighs]

1478
01:28:48.787 --> 01:28:50.372
I think you've already been

1479
01:28:51.122 --> 01:28:52.791
twice the father that I am.

1480
01:28:54.292 --> 01:28:56.461
But, uh, that's a great
compliment, Gerard.

1481
01:29:00.298 --> 01:29:01.383
I appreciate that.

1482
01:29:02.592 --> 01:29:07.138
All I can say is people
could only pray to be so lucky

1483
01:29:07.222 --> 01:29:11.476
as to I still have you today
to ask you questions,

1484
01:29:12.936 --> 01:29:14.062
and to be here for me.

1485
01:29:14.145 --> 01:29:15.605
I will always be here for you.

1486
01:29:15.647 --> 01:29:17.357
I always will be here for you.

1487
01:29:17.440 --> 01:29:18.983
I really, really will.