1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,400 WIND HOWLS 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,400 MAN: I'm terrified of Auschwitz. 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:27,600 MAN EXHALES 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:28,680 Okay. 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,880 No. 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,160 I'm not ready to walk in yet. Sorry. 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,000 MAN EXHALES 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,280 Why do I not have the guts to do it? 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,280 DIRECTOR: You live in a very unique world, 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,240 because the world knows about your mother and father. 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,560 WOMAN: Mr. Sokolov... 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,440 Call me Lali. 15 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,120 You're looking for someone to write your life story? 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:05,120 My parents were almost like, that got put away in a box. 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,920 His story was kept hidden for decades, 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,280 until he revealed it to author Heather Morris. 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,040 It is a Holocaust story. 20 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,640 It's not the story of the Holocaust. 21 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,440 GARY: There are still unanswered questions. 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,640 Why was my dad so hardened? 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,240 Why was my mom so depressed? 24 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:25,040 The people that have read the book 25 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,040 actually knew more than I did growing up. 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,800 The thought of having to walk through those gates 27 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,240 terrifies me. 28 00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:36,520 And I have tried four times and I couldn't even cross, 29 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,080 which made me feel like a coward. 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,560 This is my parents' history. 31 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:45,960 My dad would be so proud of that. 32 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:47,720 It's amazing. 33 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,480 I felt the presence of your mom. 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,920 She let me tell this story. 35 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,920 He's just this one man and he's so small 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,040 in this enormous camp, 37 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,440 and he's learning about the horror that's unfolding. 38 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,760 GARY: And that's what beats me up, 39 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,800 is that there's this gap 40 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:12,000 of their experience that I haven't experienced yet. 41 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:14,880 I have to do this now. 42 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:45,280 GARY: Smile for the camera. 43 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:47,960 You beautiful bird. 44 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,440 When she's not trying to tell me off. 45 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:52,680 There you go. 46 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:53,720 BIRD CHEEPS 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,160 GARY: Yeah, oh! 48 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,520 Okay, so, my name's Gary Sokolov. 49 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:05,880 I am the only child of Lali and Gita Sokolov. 50 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,240 My parents were happy people. 51 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:14,880 They had managed to almost wipe out that whole experience, 52 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,920 and for them, it was always about moving forward. 53 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,920 I mean, how beautiful is my mom? 54 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,840 And look at my dad. And there was that smile. 55 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:27,920 How proud they were to have had a child. 56 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,600 You know, 16 years of trying, 57 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,240 and they finally had a son. 58 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,240 And you can just see the glow. 59 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:44,680 I'm 63. 60 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:46,120 It's time. 61 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,560 It's time for me to know my parents. 62 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,640 And they deserve for me 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,160 to understand what they went through. 64 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,480 I want now to walk in their footsteps. 65 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,760 You know, try and understand 66 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,920 what was going through their heads, 67 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,560 because the impact it had on them was lifelong. 68 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,160 INTERVIEWER: When did you arrive in Australia? 69 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,120 1949, September. 70 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,280 You want to see the picture? 71 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,000 In that photo is when we arrived, 72 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,160 the first day, to Australia. 73 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,120 It is Sydney. 74 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,640 INTERVIEWER 2: Have you had any children? 75 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,920 I have one son. Thanks, God. 76 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,160 Who is a very big and good boy. 77 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,440 He is big all the time, but good occasionally. 78 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:42,840 INTERVIEWER 2: What's his name? 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,680 Gary, and we love him very much. 80 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:54,480 GARY: Do you want some help? 81 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,480 GIRL: Can you grab the mayonnaise? 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:58,360 GARY: Yeah. 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:04:59,600 And salt. 84 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,240 -Yeah. -What's that? 85 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,760 GARY: Being a dad was really, really important to me. 86 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,280 I suppose, if there was any enormous guilt, 87 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,400 it would have been if my parents had survived 88 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,480 and there was no continuity. 89 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,400 -Hello. Good Shabbos. -GARY: Good Shabbos. 90 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,600 -Hello, Mommy. -Mali, you look beautiful! 91 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,800 How are you? Good Shabbos. 92 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:33,480 GARY: I cherish every single happy or sad moment with them, 93 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,360 because I'm a dad. 94 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:36,920 And that's, like, amazing. 95 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,000 -Good Shabbos, everyone! -Good Shabbos, everyone! 96 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,400 -L'chaim. -MOM: L'chaim. 97 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,000 Dig in and eat. 98 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:47,920 Right, who stole the gravy? 99 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:49,200 GIRL: Me. 100 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,560 -HEATHER: Are you ready? -Yes. 101 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,320 HEATHER: When I had spent that first day with him, 102 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:04,360 he said to me, 103 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,520 "Did you know I was the Tattoowierer in Auschwitz?" 104 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,400 I was spending time with this man who had lived through 105 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,040 one of the most horrific episodes of recent history. 106 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,000 Not only lived, he'd survived. He'd been a fighter. 107 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:24,920 He always would do that to his arm, 108 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,520 and made the numbers... 109 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,840 GARY: I would sometimes come home from work 110 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,200 and he would be standing, staring at that window. 111 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,000 He wouldn't even hear me come in. 112 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,840 And it would be like, "Hi, Dad." 113 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,160 And he wouldn't react for a minute or two. 114 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,920 LALI INHALES 115 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,040 I'm right here. 116 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,360 You know it. 117 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,200 HEATHER: Your dad said to me so many times 118 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:11,800 about he was constantly surrounded by ghosts. 119 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,280 Mm. Yeah. 120 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,520 They had been part of his life since the day he left there. 121 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,000 I could see every now and then when he left me, 122 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,440 and I knew, "Now he's back in 1942." 123 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,680 I was 11 or 12 years old, and there was a documentary. 124 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,200 Um... World at War. 125 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,680 And my parents said to me that I have to watch this. 126 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,960 And I had to sit there by myself, 127 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,000 watching this. 128 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,680 NARRATOR: What we went through will be difficult to understand, 129 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,440 even for our contemporaries, 130 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,960 and much more difficult for the generations 131 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,920 that have already no personal experience from those days. 132 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:58,760 EXHALES 133 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,160 I saw the bulldozers 134 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,280 doing piles of dead bodies, 135 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,320 and people just lying there, 136 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,200 just skin and bone. 137 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,160 That has stuck with me, and that was my first exposure. 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,000 And even after that... 139 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,400 have something to eat, go to bed. 140 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,920 DIRECTOR: Would you say you've been traumatized 141 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,480 by their trauma? 142 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,120 That's a really interesting question. 143 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,760 My parents were almost like, 144 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,040 that got put away in a box. 145 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,560 "That was where we were. 146 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,360 This is where we are now. We're in Australia." 147 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,760 INTERVIEWER 2: Why did you come to Australia? 148 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,360 Why we came to Australia? 149 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,320 As far away from "ism" as possible. 150 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,160 Nazism, communism, I didn't want to hear about it, 151 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:57,480 so as far away. 152 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,360 SHIP HORN BLOWS 153 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,360 NARRATOR: Australia opened its doors to Europe 154 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:05,840 after World War II. 155 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,720 A million-odd migrants brought a new flavor and a new look, 156 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,720 learning English, finding jobs, raising families, 157 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,480 and, by and large, having few regrets. 158 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,440 Yes, young Australia is a bright light, 159 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,240 a fair dinkum land, 160 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,400 in our changing world. 161 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,320 GARY: I've never met a Holocaust survivor 162 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:52,120 that's actually willing to talk about his experiences. 163 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,000 So, we're now on our way to visit 164 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,440 a gentleman called Abram Goldberg. 165 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,720 He was one of the founders 166 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,160 of the Holocaust Museum here in Melbourne. 167 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,760 It's actually his birthday in ten days' time. 168 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,240 He's going to be 100. 169 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:27,840 When they opened the doors, 170 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,040 do you remember what your first thought was? 171 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,400 I only thought about, "What will I do? How will I save my mom?" 172 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:35,840 Right. Okay. 173 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:43,160 And when my mother had to go down to the high cattle train, 174 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,240 we didn't know what those flames are. 175 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,960 -GARY: Right. -ABRAM: Nobody knew anything. 176 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,040 You only realize it's hell. 177 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,400 And outside, the way people were treated, 178 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,920 she realized she is not going to survive. 179 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,200 No. Okay. 180 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,200 So she turned to me and said, 181 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,320 "Abram, you should do everything humanly possible to survive." 182 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,280 I knew that I was going to dedicate my life. 183 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,600 It's what I'm doing. 184 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:14,560 You've done an amazing job. 185 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,480 Not let the world forget what happened. 186 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,400 GARY: I'm so honored that I got to talk to you, 187 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,560 because my whole life, no one spoke to me. 188 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,640 No one wanted to. 189 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,600 ABRAM: I made sure that my children knows. 190 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:39,800 NARRATOR: The young Jew in Australia 191 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,560 has often been brought up in the shadow 192 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,200 of his parents' direct experience of persecution. 193 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:49,120 SINGING IN HEBREW 194 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,680 My name is George Halasz, and for the last 25 years, 195 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,840 I've been researching intergenerational trauma 196 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,640 based on the lived experiences of my mother, Alice, 197 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,480 who's a Holocaust survivor. 198 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,360 You're a second generation like I'm a second generation. 199 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,160 So, were you curious about their stories? 200 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,400 I think I was already at the point where I stopped asking, 201 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,760 because my parents never answered. 202 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:26,360 So, that, to me, speaks about the desire to be secretive. 203 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,320 Yes. 204 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,720 Do you think there was any quality of numbness in either, 205 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,160 or both, of your parents? 206 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,520 Definitely not Mom. Very possible with Dad. 207 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:41,120 Just because I never saw any emotion from him. 208 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,080 Right. 209 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,240 So something must have happened to him in the camps 210 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,400 that numbed him, 211 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,640 where he became a person that only ever looked forward. 212 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,240 -GEORGE: Yes. -Never looked back. 213 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,000 Look, I witnessed things. 214 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,400 Killings. Right? 215 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,680 Torture. Beatings. Right? 216 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,800 Unbelievable, where boys killed boys, 217 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,800 inmates killed inmates. 218 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,760 What I'm hearing, your father, 219 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,560 despite the experiences of Auschwitz-Birkenau, 220 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:20,400 went on regardless. 221 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,600 If you survived when everyone around you is dying, 222 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,760 you just think, "All right, I've survived today." 223 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,480 That survival instinct. 224 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,400 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 225 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:34,360 Right. 226 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,480 Holocaust trauma is the lived experiences 227 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,440 that were so overwhelming 228 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,280 as to actually have changed their minds and their bodies. 229 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,880 And it is this persistent survival mode 230 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,120 that is labelled "traumatic experience". 231 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,280 GARY: Why was my dad so hardened? 232 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,200 Why was my mom so depressed? 233 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,840 How they must have felt every single day when they woke up. 234 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:05,840 The concept of, 235 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,240 "Am I still going to be alive in ten minutes' time, 236 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,720 or will someone just walk past me and shoot me?" 237 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,840 I want to understand and feel that. 238 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,960 I think I'd like to go back there. 239 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,880 Yes, to Birkenau, to the camp. 240 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,920 I... I thought you'd never go back to Europe. 241 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,000 GARY: One of my biggest regrets with my father 242 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,600 is I should have just hopped on a plane and taken him. 243 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,720 I'm terrified of Auschwitz. 244 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,880 You know, you hear the stories, 245 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,200 you read the book, you see the miniseries, 246 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,200 but to actually stand where they stood... 247 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,120 Yeah, I don't know. I've been avoiding doing it. 248 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,960 I'm 63 now, yeah? 249 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:05,920 Um... 250 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,440 I wake up at night and sweat. 251 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,440 Why do I not have the guts to do it? 252 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,920 This is my parents' history. 253 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:18,760 I have to do this now. 254 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,000 Keys, phone, wallet, passport. 255 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:25,720 I'm ready to go. 256 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,680 Look at that. It's real. It's actually happening. 257 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,520 Ooh! 258 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,880 FLIGHT ATTENDANT: Passengers and cabin crew should now be seated 259 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,200 with their seatbelts securely fastened... 260 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,320 INTERVIEWER: Where were you born in Czechoslovakia? 261 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,280 In a small town named Krompachy. 262 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,760 It is Slovakia. 263 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,680 GARY: See, this view, it's just phenomenal. 264 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,680 Overlooking the hills and the valley. 265 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,720 Imagine waking up to that every morning. 266 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,960 What a peaceful way to grow up. 267 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,200 What would it have looked like back then? 268 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,320 So, I know absolutely nothing about Krompachy. 269 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:40,240 All I know is that my dad lived in Krompachy with his parents. 270 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,400 I mean, what a shock. 271 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,440 There was a war about to happen. 272 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,680 INTERVIEWER: 1942, the Germans came into Slovakia. 273 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:56,600 LALI: Yeah. 274 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,240 INTERVIEWER: Did you have any indication before that, 275 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,480 that they were coming your way? 276 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,320 Not... 277 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,560 What... If I want to tell you... 278 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,040 I never believed it, right? 279 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,000 I never believed it, 280 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,960 because we lived in a different environment, right? 281 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,640 HEATHER: I don't think Gary has any idea 282 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,080 what he's about to see, feel, and learn 283 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,040 over the next few days here. 284 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,240 He's now learning it for the first time 285 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,880 as a man in his early sixties. 286 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,960 I suspect this is going to be a very, very emotional time. 287 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:43,880 I'll be there for him. 288 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,240 Heather. 289 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,000 -HEATHER: Oh! -GARY EXHALES 290 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,000 HEATHER: We have no more special place in Krompachy 291 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,040 than where we are standing right now. 292 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,400 This is my gift to your dad and your mom, to you and your girls. 293 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,240 -GARY: And my girls. -HEATHER: Yeah. This is it. 294 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,640 Lenka, please come and join us. 295 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:19,680 GARY: Hi, Lenka. 296 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,920 -LENKA: Pleasure meeting you. -GARY: And you, too. 297 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,120 HEATHER: Lenka, can you translate? 298 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,640 LENKA: It would be my honor. 299 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:31,560 So, "This is to the memory of Mr. Ludwig Eisenberg Sokolov 300 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,560 who has lived here. 301 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,080 And this memorial has been dedicated 302 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,880 to all the people deprived of their freedom, 303 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,080 dignity, home, 304 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,600 and their own name. 305 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,600 For the memory of all victims of Holocaust." 306 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,240 My dad would be so proud of that. 307 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,840 It's amazing. 308 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,520 LENKA: And we are very proud to have it here. 309 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,440 GARY: This image, 310 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,400 you know, is embedded in my brain. 311 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,480 My whole life, my parents held hands. 312 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,160 They were just so in love. 313 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,080 INTERVIEWER: Did you go to school in Krompachy? 314 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,000 Yeah. Yeah, I went. 315 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,640 I went for eight years in the normal school, 316 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,920 like every child should have. 317 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,800 -Hi. -Hi. Gary? 318 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,680 -Gary. I'm Gary, yes. -Anna. 319 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,280 Nice to meet you, Anna. 320 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,760 -ANNA: Dobry den. -Dobry den. 321 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,920 Wow, wow. 322 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,720 Am I allowed to sit in a chair? 323 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,440 HEATHER: I don't think it's an original one. 324 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,240 GARY: That doesn't matter. It's the room. 325 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,240 Sit down. In the back row. 326 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,720 Yeah, because Dad would never have been in the front row. 327 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:58,640 HEATHER: Yes. 328 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,120 It was just something he said to me about, at school, 329 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,520 how he used to sit and look out the window and daydream. 330 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:05,960 Look at this, Dad. 331 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,680 I'm probably sitting in your chair, 332 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,760 looking outside the window at your hometown. How cool! 333 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,600 SPEAKS SLOVAK 334 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:26,720 "When the book came out 335 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,680 about The Tattooist of Auschwitz... 336 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,080 SPEAKS SLOVAK 337 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,200 ...I realized that Lali was born in 1916." 338 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,040 SPEAKS SLOVAK 339 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,880 "My father was born in 1916, too. 340 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,520 We are hoping for you to pick your dad, Lali." 341 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,520 It will be one of those two. 342 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,160 More than likely this one. Definitely him. 343 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,000 Right there, looking really smart. 344 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,800 GARY LAUGHS 345 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,800 SPEAKS SLOVAK 346 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,680 Really? 347 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,960 LENKA: "And keep it as a memory." 348 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:09,200 Thank you so much. 349 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,160 I've never seen a photo of my dad before the war. 350 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,040 Nothing. 351 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,560 Thank you. 352 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,680 Thank you so much. 353 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,400 GARY: Today was the most amazing day. 354 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,040 LENKA: I have found something 355 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:46,400 that I believe you would love to see. 356 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,840 I can confirm that we have found a house 357 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,320 where your dad lived in the year 1930. 358 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,760 -This is my friend, Miro. -GARY: Hi, Miro. 359 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,080 -Very nice to meet you. -MIRO: Nice to meet you, too. 360 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,560 This is a very good find. 361 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,080 -Thank you. -Well done, you. 362 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,680 LENKA: The houses here are beyond repair 363 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,640 and they have to be demolished. 364 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,080 MIRO: This part of the building was for the animals. 365 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,800 -GARY: The stables. -MIRO: Yeah. 366 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,280 And you can imagine where there are some rabbits, 367 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,160 maybe some chickens. 368 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,320 There would have been a horse as well. 369 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,640 LALI: We had horses, 370 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,480 with two people carrying stuff 371 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,400 over from the station 372 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,040 to the places where they had to go. 373 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,480 INTERVIEWER: Did you help out in your family business? 374 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,280 LALI [LAUGHING]: No, not much. 375 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:55,600 So, finally, we are approaching your grandfather's house, 376 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:56,960 where your father lived. 377 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,040 So, we've got the steps leading into the house, 378 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:07,880 for sure, the family members would have walked. 379 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,320 Lucky they were short. 380 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,440 MIRO LAUGHS 381 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,480 Yeah, as you can see, it's in a very bad situation, 382 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,760 so this is probably the last chance 383 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,840 to visit the property as it is. 384 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,040 Wow. 385 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,400 I was really hoping, when I walked in, 386 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,360 just to get, I don't know, 387 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,840 a feeling, something spiritual. 388 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:55,920 I'm just looking for some stones to put on my dad's grave 389 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,360 from his home. 390 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:04,680 Look at this. 391 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,560 I've got enough for both graves. Huh. 392 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,400 Wow! 393 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,360 This is just superb. 394 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Every time you go and visit someone's grave, 395 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,560 you're supposed to leave a stone, 396 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,720 just to let them know you've come to visit. 397 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,280 You know how you were talking about living history? 398 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,720 This is the history of where they were living. 399 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,600 CHUCKLES 400 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,280 That is just unbelievable. 401 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,960 Hello, Lali from Krompachy. 402 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,520 I have to go. 403 00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,720 Wait! Wait! 404 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,360 I don't know your name. 405 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,280 It's Gita. 406 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,840 INTERVIEWER 2: Where were you born? 407 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,120 Vranov nad Topl'ou, Slovakia. 408 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:19,560 About 200 families were in that little town. 409 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,320 It was a very close-knit town. 410 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,920 INTERVIEWER 2: Was it 200 Jewish families, or...? 411 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,800 GITA: Jewish families, yes. 412 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,520 INTERVIEWER 2: How many people were in your immediate family? 413 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,200 Six children, my late father and mother. 414 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,320 We wanted to show you the birth records of your mom... 415 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,400 Oh, wow! 416 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,720 ...which we have found at this registry office. 417 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:50,720 GARY: I'm tingling. 418 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,720 Wow, wow, wow! 419 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,400 -Baby steps, please. -Baby steps, yes. 420 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,080 Yeah, because otherwise, I get so overwhelmed. 421 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,600 I've never seen that photo. 422 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:05,760 That... 423 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,240 How stylish is my mom? 424 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,520 And look. You know, look at the smile. 425 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,920 And there's no trauma in that photo. 426 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,400 There's a genuinely happy person. 427 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,920 Happy to be alive. 428 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,600 It's a pretty cool photo, huh? Bless my mom. 429 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,640 LENKA: Gary, this is a place where you register the birth 430 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,400 of every child being born in Vranov. 431 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,560 The first and probably the most special. 432 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,240 -GARY: Mom. -LENKA: It's your mom. 433 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:37,360 GARY: Mm. 434 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,280 So, this is the record of her being born in Vranov 435 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:45,960 on the 11th of March, 1925. 436 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:52,120 Here you can see a record of your mother's sisters. 437 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,000 We've got Rachel, Golda and Franny. 438 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,440 HEATHER: Didn't come home. 439 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,720 Didn't come home. 440 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,520 Yeah. Okay. 441 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:06,960 Those bastards. 442 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,480 DIRECTOR: Why did your mom not tell you about her sisters? 443 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,600 How do I answer that? 444 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,960 How closed must my mom have been, 445 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,680 and shut down, 446 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,320 to not even mention that she had three sisters? 447 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,320 I love my dad dearly, 448 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,840 but all my heart came from Mom. 449 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,280 And this just has that little bit more meaning. 450 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,200 She just buried it. 451 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,440 She buried it. 452 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,840 And maybe that's why she was so depressed, 453 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,360 because she buried it all so deep, 454 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,680 but it was still in the back of her head. 455 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,960 And, you know, that would explain the nightmares. 456 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:09,680 GARY: Where we're standing, 457 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,960 in what was the heart of the Jewish community, 458 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,600 is symbolic of what happened all over Europe. 459 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,480 And I'll phrase it like this. 460 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,080 So, here there was a synagogue... 461 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,880 until there wasn't. 462 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,200 Over here was the spiritual bath 463 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,520 called the Mikvah, until there wasn't. 464 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,040 The Jewish people were there, until they weren't anymore. 465 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,280 What's left is a plaque. 466 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,400 That's it. That's all that's left. 467 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,480 This was the wall of the synagogue, here, 468 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,360 that my mom attended. 469 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,400 It's a bit of stone from my mom's synagogue 470 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,320 that is no more. 471 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,600 We're reading excerpts 472 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,280 from something called my mom's Shoah tape. 473 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,720 And this is a phenomenal project 474 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:12,280 to videotape every single living 475 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,280 Holocaust survivor's story. 476 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,320 If you don't mind, I just want to read to you what... 477 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,240 my mom remembered. 478 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,040 "So I went to school." 479 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,960 GITA: Then they kicked me out of school. 480 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,200 "Like every young person... 481 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,640 I had hopes that I had to study." 482 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,480 GITA: At 17, 483 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,320 you still haven't got a clear mind what you want to do. 484 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,720 We knew that the times aren't very healthy. 485 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,720 Knew something was going wrong. 486 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,920 They didn't fully understand what. 487 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,320 And then they asked her the question. 488 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,040 INTERVIEWER 2: Was your father able to continue working? 489 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,040 GITA: No. They took away the bakery. 490 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,960 That's when the troubles started. 491 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,280 "And after they had closed everything down 492 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,040 a few weeks later, they took us." 493 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:18,800 HE SOBS 494 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,800 And for her, that simple life, 495 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,240 overnight, gone. 496 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,360 Childhood, gone. 497 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,720 Family, 498 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,880 ripped apart. 499 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:39,640 Gone. 500 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,200 Everything was... 501 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:43,560 just... 502 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:46,880 gone. 503 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,640 LALI: The Slovaks were always antisemites. 504 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,680 You talked to everybody. They knew that you are a Jew. 505 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,600 But maybe, inside, they hated you. 506 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:18,880 People ask whether 507 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,840 what is being done with the Jews is Christian. 508 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,440 Is it human? Is it not robbery? 509 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,800 I ask, is it Christian when the nation wants to free itself 510 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,320 from its eternal enemy, the Jew? 511 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,560 Slovak, cast off your parasite. 512 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,760 MADELINE: I have a letter here. 513 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,600 This letter is from a six-year-old boy 514 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,360 who wrote to Jozef Tiso. 515 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,440 You know, I've got a seven-year-old, 516 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,160 so this is like trying to imagine her 517 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,280 writing a letter to do this is... 518 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,480 Right. It's just mind-boggling. 519 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,360 He's the youngest letter writer that I have found so far. 520 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,240 This little boy writes, 521 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,680 "Dear Mr. President, every night I pray for your health. 522 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,240 Mommy always tells me that if I'm a good boy, 523 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,560 Jesus will bring me the most beautiful gift 524 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:37,280 from Mr. President," which is an exemption. 525 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,520 I would like to talk to you a little bit 526 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,400 about this piece of propaganda that is behind us. 527 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,280 It says, "It is he. You know him by the star. 528 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,520 It is he who grabs everything for himself. 529 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,480 It is he who acts against the state and its friends." 530 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,640 The wearing of the yellow Star of David 531 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,320 was mandated by the Jewish Code. 532 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,240 The Slovak press touted it 533 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,600 as the most strict racial law in all of Europe, 534 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,440 even stricter than that of the Nazis. 535 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,880 You couldn't go to sporting events, 536 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,240 parks, restaurants, movies. 537 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,840 You couldn't even go to the market 538 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,720 at the same time as everyone else. 539 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,640 What kind of people, as human beings? 540 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,520 MADELINE: So, these are the things that 541 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,440 your parents would have seen. 542 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,040 And they suggested that the Jews were responsible 543 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,800 for all of the country's problems, 544 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:44,960 which is impossible, 545 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,280 because they were only 3.6% of the population at the time. 546 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,200 Yeah, I know. It's mind-boggling, isn't it? 547 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,320 To ask me to leave, they didn't come to the home. 548 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,040 They just put out announcements 549 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:01,320 that the oldest kids from every family 550 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,840 have to come to that place, that evening. 551 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,520 Otherwise, they will take the parents. 552 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,240 It was up to me to go. 553 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,240 So I went. 554 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,800 I was 17 in March, 555 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,440 and in April they had already deported us. 556 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,160 INTERVIEWER: The Slovakian government 557 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:21,360 came for your parents? 558 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,960 Yeah. Not only for my parents. 559 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,800 For all the Jews. 560 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,760 Because they took everybody they could. 561 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,760 The Slovak government paid 500 reichsmarks 562 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,400 for every deported Jew. 563 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,480 -Were you aware of that? -No. 564 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,760 And they had to pay for "transportation." 565 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,480 That makes it very uncomfortable to be in this country, 566 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,120 right here, right now. 567 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,480 A country that my parents lived in, 568 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,000 their brothers and sisters lived in. 569 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,600 And knowing that the government was happy 570 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,480 to pay for them to be deported. 571 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,440 I would just bring up the point, though, 572 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,040 that not everyone hated Jews. 573 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:03,960 Right. 574 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,880 But there was tremendous social pressure not to... 575 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,120 not to associate with Jews, and not to aid them in any way. 576 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:25,400 INTERVIEWER: What was the response of the Jewish community 577 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,600 to these actions? 578 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,400 They had no response. 579 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,840 They couldn't do anything. 580 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,440 Nobody could do anything. 581 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,720 GARY: I feel privileged. 582 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:42,560 Every survivor needed some luck in their life, 583 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,800 and I'm a reflection of that luck. 584 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,520 GUARD: Keep in line! 585 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,600 Come on, keep moving! 586 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,160 Where are we going? 587 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:53,800 Poland. 588 00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:56,400 GUARD: Keep moving forward! 589 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,160 I hear they'll train you as a mechanic, 590 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,040 fixing cars, engines. 591 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,680 JONAH: It's funny being back here. 592 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,080 This is where we filmed getting onto the carriages. 593 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,960 And it was such a strange day of filming. 594 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,560 Just me, as Jonah, 595 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,600 trying to imagine what your dad went through, 596 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,160 stepping onto a carriage, 597 00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:30,040 it's almost impossible to imagine. 598 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,560 FILM DIRECTOR: And action! 599 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:34,560 GARY: But what did you go through 600 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,400 when you walked into the carriage? 601 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,160 JONAH: They slammed the door shut, 602 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,760 and everyone just goes completely quiet. 603 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,280 It was impossible for it not to impact you 604 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,080 on quite a profound level. 605 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,120 LALI: Nobody knew what was going to happen. 606 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,680 Nobody knew where we were going. 607 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,840 He's just this one man, 608 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,040 and he's so small in this enormous scale of this camp. 609 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,160 And he's learning about the horror that's unfolding. 610 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,840 GARY: I can see my dad in your eyes. 611 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,320 I saw my dad in the way you looked at Anna. 612 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,440 That look of love. 613 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,640 GITA: Your eyes... 614 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:40,280 Are they blue? 615 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:41,880 LALI: Sometimes. 616 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,080 OFFICER: Is there a problem? 617 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,040 No. Um... 618 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,280 Just getting some more ink. 619 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,640 How difficult would it have been for you 620 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:01,240 to play my mother 621 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,600 in a Holocaust environment? 622 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,000 ANNA: You know, it was very scary. 623 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,800 I was terrified at first. 624 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,840 I just felt this great responsibility. 625 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:20,840 I felt the presence of your mom from then. 626 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,400 And, I mean, I still feel that presence sometimes. 627 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,400 -Serious? -ANNA: I do. 628 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,640 How was it for you, 629 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,800 to watch the story on the screen? 630 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,520 So, I'll tell you what my biggest impacts were. 631 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,560 You said, "God isn't going to help." 632 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,360 And this is an ultra, ultra-orthodox woman, 633 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,920 where everything is because of God. 634 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:43,800 ANNA: Yeah. 635 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,800 That was all Mom. 636 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:48,640 Lali... 637 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,000 Where is God? 638 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,560 God can't help us, Lali, but we can help God. 639 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,720 We can show him that love still exists, even here. 640 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,080 I was brought up secular. 641 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,840 And I think my mom let go of a lot of it, 642 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,520 maybe because of a disappointment in God. 643 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:17,800 Because of the war. 644 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,440 How are you feeling generally about going? 645 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,280 -Do you feel ready now? -No. 646 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,920 Even more so not ready. 647 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,000 All of a sudden, that's become... 648 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:29,880 Look, I'm shaking. 649 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,040 Just look at me. And that's not the cold. 650 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,000 -That's thinking about... -Yeah, yeah. 651 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,680 Walking into Birkenau has a different sense of reality 652 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,320 than it ever did before, 653 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,760 because I know so much now. 654 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,600 If, for any reason, 655 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,000 my parents' souls are not resting, 656 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,200 maybe this will help both of them as well. 657 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,760 This is it? We're getting on here? 658 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,920 Mom's describing her arrival... 659 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:19,680 in Auschwitz. 660 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,600 "And through the little window in the wagon, 661 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,960 we could see people in striped clothing 662 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:26,280 working in the field. 663 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,800 And so we talked to each other. 664 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,200 'Well, they must be some criminals. 665 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,760 Definitely not for us.' 666 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,480 But when we arrived, 667 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,360 we had a very, very bad surprise. 668 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,920 The SS came in, and they started screaming, 669 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,240 'You are not going to get out of here, 670 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,160 and you are going to die.'" 671 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:01,440 GUARD: Halt! 672 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,680 Women this way, men over here. Thank you. Move along. 673 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,560 GARY: I want to know now. 674 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,840 I want to know what it was like for them 675 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,000 as best as I possibly can, 676 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,320 to walk in their footsteps. 677 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,440 I didn't go four times before this trip. 678 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,480 I don't want to make it number five. 679 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:26,760 This time I'm going. 680 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:43,760 HE EXHALES 681 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,120 I'm actually surprised at how I'm feeling. 682 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,480 I want to see what happened there. 683 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,520 I want to be close to my mom and dad in there. 684 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:01,600 I'm ready. 685 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,520 GARY: I can't stop shaking. 686 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,280 HE SOBS 687 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:27,840 Okay. 688 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,600 MAN: Come here. I've got you. Give me your hand. 689 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,120 I'm okay, I'm okay. 690 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,320 HE SNIFFLES 691 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,440 -Hi, Pawel. -Hi, Gary. 692 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,480 -I'm Gary. Nice to meet you. -Pleasure to meet you here. 693 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,080 And I know it's going to be a challenging time, 694 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,560 but thank you very much 695 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,320 for coming to the memorial. 696 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,280 I suppose we can start, so please follow me. 697 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,720 [CHUCKLING] I can't stop my knees from shaking. 698 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:03,920 -Okay. -Okay. 699 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,480 From 1942, Auschwitz becomes an extermination camp. 700 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,880 And what you can see here in front of us 701 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,280 is this iconic entrance 702 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,880 with the "Arbeit Macht Frei" inscription, 703 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,600 "work makes one free." 704 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,240 LALI: They took us to Auschwitz. 705 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:24,720 I looked up. 706 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:30,440 I saw "Arbeit Macht Frei" in the German language. 707 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,440 And when we came in, the hell started there. 708 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,880 I'm not ready to walk in yet. Sorry. [EXHALES] 709 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,160 I can't stop my legs from shaking. 710 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:55,560 Okay. 711 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,800 No. [CHUCKLES] 712 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:01,440 All right, let's do it. 713 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,240 LALI: When we came out and we saw the SS 714 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,000 and we saw the dogs and we saw the beating, 715 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,160 then we knew what time it is. 716 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,000 PAWEL: Most of these blocks 717 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,360 were places where prisoners were sleeping. 718 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,960 The number of people inside such a building 719 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,400 could exceed 1,000. 720 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,760 Do we have any idea which one my mom might have been in? 721 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:51,720 No. 722 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,960 We don't have documents related to your mother. 723 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,680 The SS, before the evacuation, 724 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,360 they ordered prisoners to burn the documentation. 725 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,320 And our estimation is 726 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,280 that even up to 95% of the camp documents were destroyed. 727 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,600 GARY: So, over here, 728 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,160 what we have is a collection of children's shoes. 729 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,600 Some of these would have been for kids 730 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,400 that were less than one year old. 731 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,840 I'm trying to imagine Aviva's feet. 732 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:49,560 Shocking, isn't it? 733 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,080 PAWEL: We have to remember 734 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,720 when we look at every single object here, 735 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:08,560 it is one person. 736 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:09,680 Yes. 737 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,120 There's always one story, one name, one person, object. 738 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,040 GARY: And this is a bit close to home as well. 739 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,840 It's got my dad's first name on it, Ludwig. 740 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:21,200 HE EXHALES 741 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,800 The scale of that just... 742 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,520 INTERVIEWER: Did they give you a number? 743 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:47,240 LALI: Yes. 744 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,360 32407. 745 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,760 When people think about Auschwitz survivors... 746 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,240 I'll think about tattoos. 747 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,200 The tattoo is something essential. 748 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,360 Survivors' children remember the tattoo, 749 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,320 sometimes without understanding what it was. 750 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,200 Because they don't want to explain to them. 751 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,040 In this bureaucratic world of the SS, 752 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,200 they didn't know who... 753 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,960 -GARY: Who was who. -PAWEL: Who was who. 754 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,040 Then they thought, 755 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,560 "It will be more useful if this number will be permanent." 756 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,200 And therefore they needed tattooists, 757 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,400 and your father was one of them. 758 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,280 End of the wood was two needles, right? 759 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,400 One was longer. 760 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,920 The other one a little bit shorter, right? 761 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,720 And that's how we did the numbers. 762 00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:48,800 GARY: My mom, 763 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,160 I remember her coming home one day 764 00:47:51,240 --> 00:47:53,240 with a big bandage on her arm, 765 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,960 and she had just had her tattoo, her number, removed, 766 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,280 because she just couldn't look at it anymore. 767 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,800 LALI: The SS, they took you there. 768 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:18,280 One day, I came to the bunker number 11. 769 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,600 And they took me in. 770 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,920 And they tortured you, right? 771 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,320 They beat you. 772 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:27,640 PAWEL: We don't know exactly 773 00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:32,120 how this investigation that led to his incarceration... 774 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,000 It is likely that he could have been here. 775 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,680 First, you will see the standing cells, 776 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,360 which is a particularly harsh punishment. 777 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,040 Up to four people standing in basically one square-meter space 778 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,840 for the entire night. 779 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,440 Each standing cell looks like this. 780 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,000 It was bricked up. 781 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:55,680 People crawled inside, 782 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,720 and they were standing the entire night. 783 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,400 And that's the only entrance of air. 784 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,960 You can see there's a very small hole. 785 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,720 It could be covered from the outside. 786 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,120 So this was one of these extreme types of punishments 787 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:10,720 that we have here. 788 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:14,960 GARY: They had different designations. 789 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,400 Standing cells, 790 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,920 starvation cells, 791 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,040 death by suffocation. 792 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,720 PAWEL: This is the execution yard 793 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,800 of the prison building. 794 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,840 And they were shot in the back of their heads. 795 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,840 So, this is a site which is a commemorative site, 796 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,120 as you can see. 797 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,800 And there is always this flag above, 798 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,560 with the stripe pattern. 799 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,680 -GARY: The uniform. -PAWEL: The uniform pattern. 800 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,480 So it symbolizes the prisoners. 801 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,360 But there was sand 802 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,600 and sawdust that they were throwing here 803 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,160 to drain the blood. 804 00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:54,560 And the blood reached meters into the ground. 805 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,480 LALI: The gassing was separate, 806 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,720 and the burning was separate. 807 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,080 HE EXHALES 808 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,720 LALI: They couldn't burn them that quick. 809 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,000 There was a conveyor belt from the gas chamber 810 00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,960 which came into the crematorium. 811 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,080 And the conveyor belt was working non-stop, 812 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,960 24 hours a day, 813 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,720 and bringing in those gassed people, naked. 814 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,360 HE SOBS 815 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,560 GITA: In July, we went to Birkenau. 816 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,840 That's where the real trouble started, 817 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,880 the real killings and disappearings. 818 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,760 Here we go. There's the building. 819 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,280 There's the train tracks. 820 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:10,960 My heart's racing. 821 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:16,760 GARY BREATHES QUICKLY 822 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,080 So, this is the space that you can see... 823 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:21,880 Just how vast. 824 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,800 ...of basically... 825 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,280 maybe not the entire, 826 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,040 but the majority of the Birkenau site. 827 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,240 But there's more? 828 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,440 PAWEL: There are some parts in the forest 829 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,600 that are difficult to see from here. 830 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,360 But, basically, we can look at this around-500-acre space. 831 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,400 When the SS moved the killing from Auschwitz-I, 832 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,800 which is some three kilometers from here, to Birkenau, 833 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,960 they're building an industry of murdering people. 834 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,840 We have around one million Jews murdered in Auschwitz. 835 00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:55,320 In fact, in Birkenau, 836 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,280 there were six homicidal gas chambers 837 00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:58,560 and four crematoria. 838 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,920 GARY: Just in time for my family to come, yeah. 839 00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:06,080 LALI: The headquarter was Auschwitz. 840 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,160 The factory killing was done in Birkenau. 841 00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,200 In the whole world, they mention Auschwitz, 842 00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,320 but the real McCoy was Birkenau. 843 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,200 PAWEL: Here you can see a historical freight train car. 844 00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,200 And most of the Jews were deported in freight train cars. 845 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,360 Sometimes people talk about cattle train cars, 846 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,200 but cattle would get a lot of air. 847 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,880 In many testimonies we have people who have lack of air, 848 00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,400 and it's overcrowded, around 80 people in it. 849 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:33,680 GARY: Oh, God. 850 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,040 So that's all they had? 851 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,600 Yes. There's one for the air on one side. 852 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,560 There was something on the other side. 853 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,200 Many survivors talk that finding a place near this little window 854 00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:45,120 would be... 855 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,520 -Lifesaving. -Because you would get air. 856 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:48,400 Right. 857 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:52,120 PAWEL: And this is the place where the selection happened 858 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,040 when the transport of Jews arrived, 859 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,600 because non-Jews do not go to the selection. 860 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,920 And we estimate that around 75% of Jews 861 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,920 are murdered immediately. 862 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,920 Not everybody came into the camp. 863 00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,000 Only the stronger people came. 864 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,720 The rest went straight away to be killed, to be gassed. 865 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,200 If you had a little pimple on your hand, 866 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:15,600 you went to the left. 867 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,120 Most of the girls from my town were taken 868 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,840 for nothing, nothing. 869 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:24,760 PAWEL: People have no idea 870 00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,200 that they will never see each other again. 871 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,920 And then, some of them become prisoners. 872 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,440 They get to a place where someone makes the tattoo, 873 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,360 and then they enter into the camp. 874 00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:38,040 And they learn in a moment 875 00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,440 that the others were taken to the gas chambers. 876 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:42,800 The prisoners do not have... 877 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,040 You know, they don't sugarcoat it. 878 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,280 They tell them the blunt truth. 879 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:48,760 And for many of those people, 880 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,400 it is simply too much to take in. 881 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,400 In the early days, people couldn't take it. 882 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,920 They ran to the Postenkette, 883 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,440 and there were 3,000 or 4,000 volts in it. 884 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:05,520 They grabbed the wire, 885 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,880 and they would be killed straight away. 886 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:09,320 The power killed them. 887 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,200 And that was on a daily basis. 888 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,800 Those were the early days in Birkenau. 889 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:18,680 GARY: It's so massive. 890 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,920 When you look down this row, 891 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:25,040 and there's row after row after row. 892 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:26,520 The effort they put in. 893 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,120 You know, all the logistics 894 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,400 that went into building and killing 895 00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,160 and transporting. 896 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,720 I have nothing else to say, Stephen. 897 00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,360 You can't get blood out of a stone. 898 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:40,840 I'm kind of, like... 899 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:44,200 Yeah. 900 00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,680 My dad, when he said, "I want to apologize 901 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,960 to the people whose lives I couldn't save," 902 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,520 his only curiosity about all the gas chambers was this one. 903 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,200 Crematorium III. 904 00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,080 PAWEL: This is a place where tens of thousands 905 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:39,160 would walk down. 906 00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:43,120 And I know you wanted to specifically say a prayer here. 907 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:53,200 PRAYS IN HEBREW 908 00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,760 HE SOBS 909 00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,040 GARY: So, what are we entering now? 910 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:47,080 PAWEL: So, we are entering into one of the smaller sections. 911 00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,480 And this was called the Zigeunerlager. 912 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,840 It was the camp for the Roma and Sinti prisoners. 913 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:53,640 In the family camp, 914 00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,920 your father stayed for some time in one of the wooden barracks, 915 00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,560 and it's over here. 916 00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,160 Unique in the stories that Lali said that he lived on his own. 917 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:04,160 GARY: Yes. 918 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:05,120 PAWEL: What we think 919 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,720 is that he lived as part of the larger group 920 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,000 of this whole unit. 921 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,720 Maybe their conditions of life were better. 922 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:14,520 So this is maybe, 923 00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,480 kind of the reason for this isolation, or the feeling... 924 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,240 But that makes no sense. 925 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,360 I can understand some of his memories would be very vague 926 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,240 as an 89-year-old man, 927 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,840 but one thing that is impossible to be vague 928 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:33,160 is not knowing if you are in your own room or not. 929 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:34,040 That's... 930 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,240 And I can still distinctly remember 931 00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,520 my mom yelling at my dad 932 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:41,160 when he was describing the room. 933 00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,840 Yelling at him that it wasn't a six-star hotel. 934 00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,200 But maybe they had enough space 935 00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:49,720 that they would be able to have 936 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,600 their own kind of sleeping places. 937 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:54,360 Maybe that's the explanation. 938 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,040 GARY: Or he just had his own room. 939 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:57,640 -PAWEL: Maybe that also. -GARY: Yes. 940 00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,840 PAWEL: But there could be maybe several of them. 941 00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,560 This sector at the very back of Birkenau 942 00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,600 has a German name, Effektenlager. 943 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,080 Your mother worked here, and that was considered to be, 944 00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:11,960 somehow, privileged work. 945 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,320 GARY: Yes, correct. 946 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,320 And then something that is unique for this place 947 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,320 is that on the other side of the fence, 948 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,400 you can see this red line. 949 00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,920 This is the ruins of Gas Chamber number 4. 950 00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,000 So they were also close witnesses 951 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,240 to the killing process. 952 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,640 GITA: We heard the screams from where they went... 953 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:34,400 to the gas. 954 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,880 All my friends were taken. 955 00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,240 GARY: When you look across everything, 956 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,240 it's mind-boggling, the vastness of this. 957 01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,800 Walking in my parents' footsteps is very special. 958 01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,280 I don't think I could ever have been closer talking to them 959 01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,000 than I was here. 960 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,960 When you put it in perspective 961 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,640 of all my family members that didn't survive, 962 01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,320 I feel honored that, for whatever reason, 963 01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,560 my mom and dad were lucky enough to survive. 964 01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,320 I'm going back to Melbourne, 965 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,480 and I can talk to my children in a whole different way 966 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,080 about their family. 967 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:11,640 I remember my mom and dad saying 968 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,080 that they wanted to get as far away from Europe 969 01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:17,880 as they possibly could. 970 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,600 And you can't really get much further away than Australia. 971 01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,480 -Welcome. -Nice to meet you. 972 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,160 -Nice to meet you. -Thank you so much. 973 01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,680 This is Mali, my youngest daughter. 974 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:30,960 Yes. 975 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:33,480 MAN: Shall we go in? 976 01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:34,960 MAN 2: Yes, let's move. 977 01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:36,520 MAN: Puts on some beautiful music, 978 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,160 and they do a dance of tango. 979 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:39,840 GARY SPEAKS IN HEBREW 980 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:41,560 Twinkle Toes. 981 01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,240 THEY LAUGH 982 01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,280 We dance a lot in here. 983 01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:46,640 Fantastic. 984 01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,280 Are we hungry? Yes? Good. 985 01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,600 Well, we've got lots of food. Why don't you come in? 986 01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:54,200 GARY: Shall we go in? 987 01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,600 We forgot the pickles. How can we forget the pickles? 988 01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,080 GARY: You can sit down with Mother. 989 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,640 Your parents never talked about the Holocaust? 990 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,720 -A few stories, you know? -Yeah. 991 01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:08,160 We grew up with everything, with Dad telling us 992 01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,400 from when we were really young. 993 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,440 Yes, I did a lot to survive, 994 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:16,760 but I still consider it was 99% of luck 995 01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:23,120 because every moment of the day, you could be shot, killed, 996 01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,880 beaten to death or sent to the gas chamber. 997 01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,160 CHARLIE: But whatever question we ever had 998 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:31,520 was always answered. 999 01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:32,920 -Brilliant. -CHARLIE: Always. 1000 01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,360 When I was ten, I turned around to Dad one day 1001 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,000 and I said to him, "Dad, do you hate the Germans?" 1002 01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,320 And he said, "Don't you ever use that word, 1003 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,320 because once you give in to that emotion, 1004 01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,040 what is it that you become?" 1005 01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:45,600 -As bad as that. -CHARLIE: Yeah. 1006 01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,000 So, to me, that was a lesson in not only survival, 1007 01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:53,360 but survival with your humanity and your dignity intact, yeah. 1008 01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:54,760 GARY: That's the right message. 1009 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,720 He's an amazing man, this one. 1010 01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:57,840 INDISTINCT 1011 01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,280 So, really, this trip has been amazing for you. 1012 01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:02,600 Just phenomenal. 1013 01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,880 You're telling everything to your children now. 1014 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:10,160 I don't want them to have that same emptiness that I had. 1015 01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,520 HELEN: It's quite profound on me 1016 01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,440 how you're telling the stories that you never heard. 1017 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,520 It's so important. 1018 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,760 GEORGE: Now, having come back, how are you feeling, 1019 01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:29,160 to have a lived experience of Auschwitz? 1020 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,240 GARY: Relieved. 1021 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:32,040 I'm a different person. 1022 01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,320 -In what way? -I'm not empty anymore. 1023 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:36,800 Oh! 1024 01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,240 Maybe I don't know the right terminology, 1025 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,320 but it's almost like peace of mind. 1026 01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,360 -Okay. -If that makes sense? 1027 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,840 -Yes. -GARY: I am comforted 1028 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:53,560 and fulfilled by the fact that I now know so much more. 1029 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:54,440 GEORGE: Yes. 1030 01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,520 How do you think you coped with the emptiness 1031 01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:58,880 all the years before? 1032 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,040 I think I knew it was there, but I ignored it. 1033 01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,320 There's a way of looking at trauma 1034 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,960 that is not actually a state of mind, 1035 01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:08,880 but a state of body. 1036 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,120 Now, you're noticing this 1037 01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,160 and you're saying it's peace of mind. 1038 01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,280 And many people might say, "What a paradox. 1039 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:20,520 You're going to Auschwitz, 1040 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:22,440 and you come back with peace of mind." 1041 01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:23,640 How do you...? 1042 01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,800 I don't know the answer to that. I just know I have that feeling. 1043 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,000 -GEORGE: It's very real. -And I've noticed it. 1044 01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,480 -It's very real. -GARY: Yeah. 1045 01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:36,440 I'm going to have such a different relationship 1046 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,360 with my children, as a parent and as a friend. 1047 01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,200 I think I'm going to like myself a lot more, too, 1048 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,160 in the way I relate because of that. 1049 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:46,600 -GEORGE: Please do. -Yeah. 1050 01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,680 It's an absolute honor to be in your presence. 1051 01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,520 GARY: Thank you. It's a very warm feeling. 1052 01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:58,440 Oh. 1053 01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:00,760 -I'm sorry. -GEORGE: Please, please. 1054 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:02,400 -It's a release. -GARY: Okay. 1055 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,920 This is not a negative. 1056 01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,240 MALI: Does it go in order, like in the alphabet? 1057 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:23,360 -No. -No? 1058 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,320 No, it's wherever you buy the plots. 1059 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,760 Here you go. This is Mom and Dad. 1060 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:35,480 Look at that. 1061 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,280 I miss you guys very much. 1062 01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,120 First time I've brought your grandchildren out to see you. 1063 01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,160 This is Mali, and this is Aviva. 1064 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:49,480 So, I've got stones from both your hometowns. 1065 01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:51,680 So let's all put one on, 1066 01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:53,760 just to let them know we've been here. 1067 01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,280 Dad, look at that. From outside your front door. 1068 01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,040 So you've got a bit of home to have as well. 1069 01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:03,400 Oh! 1070 01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,200 GARY KISSES 1071 01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:11,480 I wish you could have met them. 1072 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,680 How my dad would have fussed over you two, 1073 01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,400 and Mom would have had you in the kitchen, 1074 01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,360 teaching you songs and watching her bake. 1075 01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:22,880 She would have been in heaven. 1076 01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,920 How you going, choop? Doing good? 1077 01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:27,080 Yeah. 1078 01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,600 INTERVIEWER: How did you find Gita after you were liberated? 1079 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:35,240 I couldn't go by train 1080 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,040 because it was bombed. 1081 01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,080 The train couldn't go through the bridges. 1082 01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,200 So I bought a horse. 1083 01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:45,240 You know? 1084 01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,320 And I took my horse, 1085 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:51,360 and I was going hundreds of kilometers 1086 01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:53,760 to look for her. 1087 01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,800 GITA: And, one day, turns up a horse 1088 01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,400 on two wheels. You know, that carriage? 1089 01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,760 I look back there, and it's my husband. 1090 01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:05,320 GITA: Lali! 1091 01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:20,960 SHE SOBS 1092 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:26,920 He chased me and found me, and we are happy together. 1093 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,320 -GARY: Do you know who that is? -AVIVA: That's... 1094 01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:41,600 That's your dad. 1095 01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,200 -GARY: Who's that? -AVIVA: Your mom. 1096 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:44,360 -And who's that? -You. 1097 01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,240 Yeah. This is from their 50th wedding anniversary. 1098 01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,200 I threw a really big party for them. 1099 01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,240 Pretty good-looking dude, your dad, huh? 1100 01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,760 -AVIVA: No, he looks better. -GARY: Really? [LAUGHS] 1101 01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:57,680 Thanks. 1102 01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:00,680 It's okay. I love you still. 1103 01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:02,080 MALI: Watch this! 1104 01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,280 GARY: My parents found each other, 1105 01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,880 and they got married in Krompachy. 1106 01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:13,000 And what I have here just shows you how much they were in love. 1107 01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,960 So, this is a photo from the Tatras mountain range, 1108 01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,360 and my parents went there on their honeymoon. 1109 01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:21,720 Have a look. 1110 01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,280 This is post-war, with hair, 1111 01:08:25,360 --> 01:08:31,040 just so, so very happy and in love. 1112 01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:37,640 So I'm the result of one of the most amazing romances 1113 01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:42,600 in the most horrific place that ever existed. 1114 01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:44,520 I mean, even the fact that I'm around 1115 01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,720 is also seriously good luck. 1116 01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:49,600 Wahoo! 1117 01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:53,480 It's amazing! 1118 01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,040 I love it! 1119 01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,760 GARY: I have two beautiful girls. 1120 01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:03,440 They will be able to continue the story, 1121 01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:05,520 and that is my greatest happiness. 1122 01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:08,280 MALI: Go run. 1123 01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,360 AVIVA: Go for a run. Get some exercise in. 1124 01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,400 THEY LAUGH